The Spare Wheels
There’s not much to be cheerful about in Scottish politics at the moment, so let’s take a moment to be uncharacteristically positive about the future.
Because you’d need a heart of stone not to laugh at this.
Alert Wings readers may recall Ellie Gomersall, the delightful chap from the seriously deranged paedophilia-and-rape apologist-“Rainbow Greens” group who’s the newest columnist on The National. And it’s lovely to watch him seeing the writing on the wall.
Because as Wings noted several weeks ago, it increasingly looks like the only credible option for the next Scottish Government is an alliance of some sort between the SNP and Labour. On both current polling and trends, nothing else offers a likelihood of a majority of votes at Holyrood, and the SNP has been transparently manoeuvering its supporters’ expectations in that direction for some time.
A majority at Holyrood is 65 seats. On that projection the SNP and Greens fall a hefty 15 short. (The SNP and Tories could achieve one, just, but that’s never happening.)
The SNP and Labour, however, would have a very comfortable 78 – not just a majority but one big enough to see off a modest internal rebellion. And while it would mean the end of any prospects of independence for another half-decade, that ship has probably already sailed and it does have one compensation that all sane people could celebrate: absolutely nobody has any need of the Greens.
On those projections the Greens would, appropriately, be eunuchs at an orgy. And it’s very obvious that they’ve all just realised which way the wind is blowing.
Despite the Herald’s headline, the position set out by Ross “Tiny Fists Of Fury” Greer last week was very much more equivocal, suggesting that Labour’s opposition to a second indyref was merely “a significant barrier”, but very noticeably stopping short of calling it a red line.
The comment, in other words, was a negotiating position, not an ultimatum. But the truth is that nobody thinks the Greens are going to be in any position to negotiate, because they’ll have nothing to offer. On that poll a Labour/Green coalition would command just 48 votes, nowhere near a workable administration.
(Alex Salmond made a government with just 47 seats work from 2007-11, but that was because he was willing to do pragmatic one-off budget deals with the Tories, and the Greens’ tiny heads would explode at that prospect. And Scottish politics in general is a very different beast in 2023 to what it was in 2007, in more ways than we can be bothered to list here.)
The downside, of course, is that the next Holyrood election is still two and a half years away. We’ve got a fair amount of the toxic tail wagging the dead dog to endure yet. But at a time when most aspects of the future look extremely bleak, let’s find some small rays of sunshine where we can.
But, like countless local councils across Scotland would ‘Scottish’ Labour not have an ‘understanding’ with the ‘Scottish’ Tories instead? Or does the maths not work out for that?
I can’t imagine it would seriously upset Labour’s support in England, since a fag paper wouldn’t separate them from the Tories anyway.
My heart isn’t made of stone. I laughed out loud at the devolutionist headline to work with Labour.
Ah well, adding another cook to Scotland’s thin political broth can’t spoil what’s already spoiled.
“you’d need a heart of stone not to laugh at this”
Maybes it’s bringing a tear to a glass eye instead.
Three and a half years for the current troughers to set up all the quangos, advisory boards, steering committees and other NGO’s they will need to ensure seamless transitions onto the parallel non-governmental gravy train.
We could ofcourse also end up with a labour/tory/libdem coalition. A Unionist coalition if you will especially if Labour refuse to work with the SNP.
“Rainbow Greens”, oh my sweet bippie ! That tickled me so much I nearly bought a round.
As if Messrs Harvie & Slater, the Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber of this devolved administration (and there is quite a competition for the posts) weren’t enough to stagger the imagination, now we have the “Woke Extreme” version of the”Woke beyond belief” party.
Harvie, Slater, Greer and Chapman hog all the headlines for quite obvious reasons (weapons grade stupidity).
There are however other Greens.
Arianne Claire Burgess (Highlands & Islands) claims an MSc in “Integrative EcoSocial Design and Leadership” through the “Gaia University”.
There is no “Gaia University”, just a mail-order scam for new-age, delusional, middle class loonies.
It’s noteworthy that the SNP and Greens would rather try to do a deal with Labour than with other pro-independence parties, despite support for independence sitting at over 50% in recent opinion polls.
Won’t vote for any party that voted in favour of gender self ID, they can get tae fuck and as far as the greens are concerned when they get there they can fuck off some more the Greens are just perverts
Depressing, but really we need to call this charade out for what it is. The wee pretendy colonial.administration will roll on and meanwhile more and more of our resources will be plundered or sold-of. So, the greens are toast (carbon neutral?) thankfully, but as for the other yoon parties – including the nuSNP – coalescing into a majority in whatever combination, and being able to convince us that we really have any say in our governance and future. Well, there’s a few bridges too far. We can’t afford to wait 3 years for our democracy (Brig a Doon version) to appear again, we need a stop event to halt the bagpipes and we need to remove most if not all of the chairs. Something has to give or we all get fat and happy on the pop-corn while we wait on the next season of the devo shitshow. Perhaps the house of cards might get blown down if some of the shit eventually hits a fan and splatters, but is that likely. More likely to be swept under the nearest carpet (again). Like I say, depressing…
Vivian O’Blivion, I like “weapons grade stupidity”
You are correct in it is widespread amongst the present group of so called politicians – sadly they seem inordinately pleased with themselves.
“But, like countless local councils across Scotland would ‘Scottish’ Labour not have an ‘understanding’ with the ‘Scottish’ Tories instead? Or does the maths not work out for that?”
38 plus 26 is 64, which you may notice is less than 65. But in any event Labour voters will put up with stuff at council level which they’d be way less likely to tolerate at government level.
We need to get the people back in charge, able to imprison politicians if needs be.
That is what our legal Constitution under the Claim of Right does – so get everyone you know to sign up to http://www.Liberation.scot. Spread the message as quickly as you can.
John Main says “Maybes it’s brining a tear to a glass eye instead”.
I have a “glass eye” and it’s been streaming with tears ever since the SNP stupidly allowed a coalition with the Wacky Party instead of going for a supermajority.
Of course, for the SNP and more importantly for Scotland, it’s been all downhill from then, but to be fair, they were already well on their way down before the last Holyrood election but we were not aware of quite just how fast that downhill plunge was soon to escalate.
It’ll be a unionist love in.
Labour, Tory + Lie Dumbs.
They’ll not bother about the optics, imo. Can hardly tell them apart anyway & they’ve no shame over such things.
Maybe it’s just what Scotland needs right now to get rid of the dead weight.
Hmm, just seems like more machinations of the same old Party politics bollocks playing out to me.
Does nobody else feel like this is just pissing in the wind or banging heads against a wall, and instead we could try to use an alternate approach. Something like I’ve stated previously, and have a concerted move towards identifying, nurturing, and campaigning to elect decent, honest, and respected non-Party affiliated individuals who live in their respective constituencies and who will far better represent their constituents.
Stand on a manifesto of empowering the people’s voice to be hear by voting in line with and as instructed by their constituents. And also offer a straightforward recall procedure to step down should they fail to represent the views expressed by their constituents, or any other aspect which comes to light or manifests that the people feel makes it untenable for the individual continuing to represent them.
This would remove the remote centralised control by Party whipping on bad and unwanted policies, and also the interference in the selection process of candidates who should just be locally elected officials.
Despite their protestations to the contrary, there is very little to split any of the parties. Indy parties that care little for independence, Conservatives running record deficits, Socialist more concerned with wokery than workers and families.
Holyrood is basically what you would get if an adult creche crossed with a gay disco.
It will all be about who’s clique grabs all the musical chairs.
Who gets to stand up and announce high tax, over preening bureaucracy, low growth, massive waste, cronyism and corruption while bleating that it is all Westminster’s fault.
When the SNP ship is sinking (and it is) the rats will flee the ship, and ditch the Greens with it, to form an alliance with BLiS, if the English Labour branch office does well in 2026, the current SNP will do anything and I mean anything to have at the very least a modicum of power at Holyrood and that means teaming up with any party.
As you say the good point is that the Greens will be dumped out of their ministerial positions and maybe even some will be dumped out of Holyrood altogether.
I guess the real point is that there are no longer any Scottish independence minded parties at Holyrood, only parties with MSPs wanting to survive in the job and on the gravy train, and by any means possible.
The Greens could have carved themselves an important role at Holyrood. They could have pushed for land reform and serious environmental reform but they didn’t. They got rid of the people pushing for that and replaced them with Trans obsessed lunatics who want to convert children into their cult while trying to inveigle themselves into the rooms of power. Which is what happened.
Sadly for them, it all went wrong. All their big plans have fallen apart costing the taxpayer millions. Trans ideology is under scrutiny like never before and of course, shilling for rapists has just turned people off a party which for many on the left would be an option.
And now we’ve got one of their leading voices making it clear he wants to consider supporting Labour even though they’ll never support independence under the current leadership and even though they’re clearly trying to triangulate on Trans issues. Power, or being an influence on power, is more important to them.
Absolute charlatans the lot of them.
The interesting thing is 1 we haven’t even got to a Westminster election and already 2 The Rag, Greens and SNP have moved on to the Next Holyrood election. So what has happened to the De-Facto-Referendum at the next Westminster election that the NUSNP said would be a vote for Independence.
JockMcT @ 2:15 pm
“we need to call this charade out for what it is. The wee pretendy colonial.administration”
That’s what I’m thinking; disnae maitter wha’s erse’s are sitten on Holyrood’s stuils, thay’ll aye dae oor doun-hauder’s biddin.
If ‘a people’ want liberty from Westminster rule then that is the place they need to exit from.
If anybody who votes ‘green’, were ever to actually properly read the Scottish green manifesto, they would be shocked (or die laughing). Their manifesto is usually chock full of the most ridiculous, damaging, utterly useless nonsense ideas imaginable. Reading a green manifesto, is akin to reading The Beano. It is student politics, all about ‘smashing the system’, and such nonsense. Stopping folk travelling, banning ALL flights, banning ALL cars, and so on. Barking mad.
Why the greens were ever in government anywhere is down to one thing, NOBODY has ever (apart, it seems from myself) read one of their manifestos.
Nutters, the whole lot of them.
So, vote SNP, forget Indy.
Well… we’d already come to that conclusion hadn’t we.
A good analysis based on current polls. Labour are 1 to 8 to win the General Election. A probable landslide in the offing. Which is why I went bold Labour will win 30 plus seats in Scotland. Spread bet, scary if they end up with one MP again. I think that will roll on to the Scottish Elections. Labour will win most MSP seats but short of 65. Which makes the Alex Salmond achievement all the more remarkable.
Is anyone seriously saying greens increase their numbers?
Why would ANYONE vote for loopy lorna,dross geer or maggie chapperson
Shows the absurdity of the follywood voting system
TBQH I would go for Dan’s proposal of electing local non party representatives, or independents as they are known
It has become even more insulting and outrageous that these parasitical arsewipes are OPENLY colluding and proposing DEALS that will keep them sucking on the state teat, despite every one of them from all parties being responsible for the absolute clusterfuck that is not only Scotland but the WHOLE of the uk
They have such contempt for the electorate that they feel or know that people will just go along with anything they decide to dream up because they are weak and stupid , the ONLY thing they will listen too is ANGER
Executive power at Holyrood lies with the First Minister and so with a good First Minister Holyrood is honest and accountable and works, with a bad First Minister it doesn’t work and the place just depresses the whole populace.
I speak as a Labour voter but if they are returned, as it looks inevitable they will be, then it will be a dark day for Scotland. For me, Salmond was a great First Minister and Ruth Davidson could have been . Being a Labour man, I don’t even take Sarwar and Baillie seriously.
What we need at Holyrood is to elect the best First Minister possible and that can be from any party, and a bunch of independents who are there to represent their constituents. We are getting further away from that all the time.
There’s a formula to being an MSP. Do nothing and don’t get sacked. Don’t complain too loudly about anyone else or they may complain about you next. When things get covered-up, just leave them that way.
As George Ferguson says, if a possible landslide in the Westminster election is possible does anyone really care what happens in the wee pretendy parliament. A minority Labour administration can simply align itself with Westminster and say it’s the will of the population north and south of the border. A few fiscal or legislative screws applied and Holyrood can be joined at the hip politically with Westminster. The SNP and independence birds can be killed with one stone.
It just shows how there is so much apathy about and disinterest in politics that the Cole-Hamilton led LDs are projected to get 15 Holyrood seats. Once he is subjected to the glare of an election campaign and people find out what he and a lot of others in his party are all about then that 15 seat projection should come down big time.
@Captain Yossarian 5:47pm
You are correct up to a point in terms of the standard of MSP. More importantly there are structural and procedural weaknesses in Holyrood which under normal circumstances would counteract weak MSPs. I believe it was you that talked about Stu inferring an inflexion point. I would agree with that. People are seeing a huge reduction in the capabilities of public services. It’s their personal experience. 10 years on we need to find a solution to fix broken Holyrood. But an understanding that the question of Independence is unresolved until further notice.
Also worth noting that Jim Ratcliff’s Freeport is not one of the greens’ red lines either. Stuffed (hemp) brown envelopes no doubt..
I don’t think holyrood is broken, it is working perfectly fine, for a colonial.administration, aka wee pretendy parliament, filled with house jock forelock tuggers.
I wouldn’t bet on labour winning the next GE, it all smells like 1992 to me.
@Captain Yossarian says:11 July, 2023 at 5:47 pm
with a good First Minister Holyrood is honest and accountable and works, with a bad First Minister it doesn’t work
And with a fraudulent, pretendy FM?
These days most people posting here seem to have forgotten the deeply flawed and fraudulent process that shoe-horned HY into the position of SNP Continuity Incompetent Candidate, and hence by sleight-of-hand resulted in him becoming FM of Scotland and Keeper of the Great Seal.
But surely not everybody has forgotten?
How much of the slide in SNP support comes from widespread Scottish voters reacting to that disgraceful travesty of a leadership election?
SNP could transfer their second vote to Alba candidates to try and create the Independence super majority?
Instead of both votes SNP.
Sturgeon said she couldn’t vote for Alba.
She said it was gaming the system against Unionists she wanted in the back door.
Now it looks like the former Scottish nationalist party has no choice but to work with Alba to stay in power.
They’ve lost so many votes getting into bed with Harvie and Slater. Their Bute House agreement has been self destruction.
@John Main 7:02pm
I think most people haven’t forgotten. But we have a situation where, whether at Westminster or Holyrood, leaders are unelected by the electorate. The internal machinations of the Conservative Party or SNP have produced leaders not the voting public. Labour on the other hand, the party that U turned on just about every policy they have are set of victory. The dead hand of politics.
Strangely enough the planet would be a better place without the Green Party.
I haven’t a vote for any Holyrood election, nor in a Scottish constituency at a General Election, but nearly all of the permutations in the article above seem reasonable to me. Indy off the table, probably for a decade or so. And the Scots get the government they vote for.
Oh Dear! If only the SNP cyber trolls had not spent the last 16 or so years being nasty to the LP “yoonies” and worse. Or if the SNP hadn’t tried to royally f**k the LP (or Libdems and even the Conservatives) whenever they were in coalition at local council level. Those same LP councillors will be entering Holyrood and Westminster as the next generation of MSPs and MP’s respectively. Even if it was commonsense and pragmatic, the chances of the LP going into coalition with the SNP, with or without the Greens, is absolutely zilch. There would be a better bet of the SNP winning a majority of 50%+1 seats at Holyrood setting iRef2 in play, under the Humza Yousaf leadership.
It should be abolished.
Sturgeon has presided over it being completely gutted from the inside out with the power grab & internal market pish while she collected mandates like a serial killer collects trinkets.
Close it down & go straight to decolonisation. They’ve relegated Scotland to colony status & no matter who is in charge now – it’s a branch office in an even worse position than the one we had before spineless Sturgeon took office.
I hope karma pays each & every one of those barstewards a visit.
As for the irrelevant parasitic Greens looking for it’s next host. Unionists won’t be that daft. They’re political suicide. Useful idiots to scream *fck indy – trans rights first* during what was the best time for independence.
Ray Merrall
After Better Together?
Smith Commission?
Scotland bill?
Billions left in the bank?
PFI?
Are you kidding?
The labour party have been bigger barstewards to Scotland than the Tories. At least the Tories were up front about being knts.
The only ppl in Scotland voting Labour will be a unionist or someone not in full charge of their faculties.
@ Geri 8.25 pm
Don’t forget the revolving doors from Ministerial posts into private health companies for Patricia Hewitt, Alan Milburne and darling Darling.
Expenses frauds.
Hospital scandals.
Supporting benefit cuts 2014.
Geri,
you do realise that if you abandon Holyrood, there is literally no legal route whatsoever to Indy, and that any form of UDI by some ragged bunch of Saltire-waving lunatics, with no democratic legitimacy, is going to result in no international recognition whatsoever?
Maybe you don’t. Maybe you are so angry with your own intellectual inadequacies that you cannot see that.
Sam 9:01
Aye…
I think we need to remember everyone what exactly was on offer after indyref. It wasn’t pretty..
Jum Murphy, Kezia Dug (who just seethed & looked for ways Labour voters should vote Tory instead) A hostile Harriet Harmen in WM as well as the toxic atmosphere in WM of the Scots daring to send 56 MPs, every Scot bill amendment voted down, the Bain principal, brexshit & their toxic conferences to *crush the nats* their spite was on full display.
Working with Labour was not an option. It still isn’t if ppl are independence supporters.
They missed the boat for a revival once the stood with Better Together. They could’ve been a brand new Labour party in an independent Scotland. They chose branch office instead.
Support for indy is up then we need to back another horse or leave the branch office route & re-establish a convention of no party at all.
I’d rather pluck my own eyes out than vote Labour. They’ve zero to offer Scotland.
ASA
Don’t waste another convo with your banal nonsense.
We go back to what we had before Holyrood was ever offered as a last ditch attempt to halt independence.
The UK claimed to the international community & the European Council (& the reason they could join all their wee international clubs they are a member of) That Scotland was in a voluntary Union. That appears no longer to be the case.
Circumstances have now changed. The terms of Holyrood have also changed.
The promise of the No vote *Nothing will stop indyref if that’s what a majority votes for* has changed.
Suck it up, buttercup. The SNP is dead but the YES movement isn’t.
Ray Merrall @8:02 pm
I notice you say precisely nothing about what any influx of Labour parliamentarians would achieve for Scotland. You merely indulge in triumphalism at such a prospect. The same old Labour attitude that has always seen Scotland as a political fiefdom.
The real zietgeist in Scotland is not your cherished Labour revival but instead the first true awakening as to the colonial nature of Scotland’s situation and how the Sturgeonite SNP is an agent of colonial oppression.
Geri,
I’ll iterate. UDI by some bunch of Indy supporters without democratic legitimacy is throwing Scotland down the drain. Nobody in the entire world will recognise it. Westminster and the rest of the UK won’t, either. It’s also the permanent death of the Indy movement.
And to have democratic legitimacy, you need Holyrood, and the agreement of the UK parliament for a referendum.
Labour & Libdem are committed to the eradication of women’s rights, safe spaces and sport, even more so than SNP/Greens.
Labour has always been misogynists first choice. Glasgow City Council Labour fought tooth and nail against giving women workers equal pay, lie as they like.
The Tories pay lip-service to the protection of women’s rights. There are men in English women prisons too. English MSM, the BBC, universities and police forces are as captured as Scottish unis and polis by the gender borg.
In Scotland, MSM happily attack the SNP/Green woke gender policies, as hey, it’s only Scotland, & ridding the UK of SNP ranks higher than the eradication of women.For now.
The only party which prioritizes women’s rights and children’s rights (to puberty and not being mutilated by demented surgeons), is Alba. It’s Alba or nobody.
Wheels coming off the IPCC bandwagon?
Judy Curry’s website, Climate Etc has a long detailed post about two climate scientists debating calculations of climate sensitivity to carbon dioxide.
The comments section has two other climate scientists, Javier Vinos and Mike Jonas, taking it to bits.
“Javier | July 8, 2023 at 2:24 pm | Reply
Nice and detailed article. A very good presentation of current knowledge about climate sensitivity.
The problem is that it is all guesswork. There are a lot of implicit assumptions in calculating the ECS, starting with having all the forcings identified and correctly specified. Then assuming that all past warming is due to CO2 and no other cause. Then assuming that there actually is an ECS, and that the climate response to CO2 remains constant at different CO2 concentrations and different climate states.
Then we don’t know what our future emissions will be. The rate of increase has slowed a lot in the last 10 years, and I don’t remember anyone predicting that.
The end result is that we have no idea what the temperature will be in 2100, unless they continue to manipulate the temperature records, and then it will be the temperature they decide.
My guess is an increase of 0.15ºC/decade, or 1.2ºC. As good as anyone’s guess (2 cents).”
I always felt Harvie’s result last time out was a bit snide; with small numbers, a bucket of AlBA votes getting tossed was all you needed. And the strange inverting narrative – ALBA comes out – “Oh no, it will split the indy vote and the greens will suffer” … then “oh wait, the greens are doing better than ever”. With small numbers, you don’t need to do much.
a pal once said to me years ago – “when the next fascism comes, it will paint itself green and frame its brutal authoritarianism as altruism and saving the planet” (this was before rainbow logos on everything)
green parties everywhere (what a coincidence) seem to be stalking horses for lots of unpopular policies, a taste test, so the mainstream can come on board; they are not very popular but because of the voting system become unsackable – popular support for them is about 3 Byres Road twats, all with pink hair and a BMI north of 30. They may have been infiltrated in their turn – it used to be a lot of guys with beards worried about endangered beetles, with only a peripheral interest in buttsex.
a pessimistic view would be that the greens have done their job when the SNP/Labour are full of their agenda; just like how the national front evaporated once the tories adopted their ideas
“And to have democratic legitimacy, you need Holyrood, and the agreement of the UK parliament for a referendum.”
“Democratic legitimacy” from a body which repeatedly denies 10% of the population the basic human right to self determination?
As the actress said to the bishop…“oh do just fuck off, there’s a good chap.”
Hi A Scot Abroad at 9:17 pm.
YOU typed,
“Maybe you are so angry with your own intellectual inadequacies that you cannot see that.”
May I refer you to
https://wingsoverscotland.com/about/
where you will find,
“2. Play the ball, not the man (or woman).
And by all means disagree, by all means disagree forcefully – but argue with people’s views, don’t insult them personally.”
I think referring to a commenter’s “intellectual inadequacies” would count as a personal insult.
Is that your contribution here? Personal insults?
Anglos are inflltrating Scotland – you can tell them; they have 2 mouths, one to lie out of, the other to steal the food from your mouth
luckily scots scientists have invented an automated asylum s3ttl3r application processing system, firing caseless 40mm at 6000 rounds per minute.
here we see anglos attempting to get to an estate agents in the highlands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9ZS_ltsMhM
once the guns run out there is nothing stopping them from free prescriptions, social care and a vote they don’t deserve
“stay frosty, we can’t afford to let one of those bastards in here …”
RobertkKnight,
do tell us how you’ll get democratic legitimacy without Holyrood’s involvement, and a proper referendum.
Briandoonthetoon,
you might make the same comment at Geri, who had called me, uncalled for, a “Nazi prick”.
But, I acknowledge your point.
Declaring UDI without the willing consent of the country which has the longest land border is simply bonkers.
It cannot possibly work. The Rhodesians learned that lesson the hard way.
Away and shite.
That was after days of your bullshit derogatory comments. You seem to have a nasty bee in yer bonnet targeted to Alf Baird & Dan too, amongst others. Yer just a spoiler with no point to you.
& We don’t need Holyrood involvement. We remove our consent. Just as the ppl of NI can withdraw theirs with a border poll.
All those international clubs & free trade agreements end when a COUNTRY removes it’s consent from the union.
**do tell us how you’ll get democratic legitimacy without Holyrood’s involvement, and a proper referendum.**
The exact same way we got it before Holyrood was ever opened. We go external.
Do you think Holyrood just appeared one day as if by magic or was a gift from labour?
Do try to keep up. That’s at least 10 times now..
Geri,
you don’t understand how western diplomacy works.
Unless Westminster agrees, the rest of the western world won’t recognise iScotland.
So that means a referendum, up front. And then an agreement with rUK about trade and debt. And about half a million things beyond that.
There’s fuck all that some lunatic band of saltire wavers are going to achieve without those things in place.
Sarah – Now I do like that idea. Maybe time to think about appropriating the Old Royal Edinburgh High School and prepare to set up there?
The referendum route is being unequivocally denied by Westminster . Prior to “ the supposed “ Holyrood parliament of 1998 ( incidentally where is the equivalent “ devolved” PR English parliament?) the exact criteria for Scotland to become Independent pre 1998 as decreed by no less than Mrs Margaret Thatcher was for a MAJORITY of Independence MP’s to be elected to Westminster . This should be the principal criteria for the establishment of a sovereign Scottish Parliament as these MP’s are elected on “ reserved” policies including constitutional matters .
As a Scot, the power for me to vote does not come from Westminster.
The only power that is coming from Westminster is an assumed power, a despicable power that is trying to stop me voting, and has Scotland’s fundamental constitutional rights ostensibly “captured” in a Vichy Devolved Assembly which seeks to embed an outpost of Westminster’s faux sovereignty in Scotland. This is in Scotland, our Scotland, where it is the people, the Community of the Realm who are sovereign, NOT a foreign government or “Scottish” fifth column who have no loyalty to Scotland.
The Scotland Act, and all it’s colonial usurpations, is only the small “c” constitution of a devolved assembly. A devolved assembly (augmented by an equally dubious Supreme Court), which has extremely dubious constitutional legitimacy wherever and whenever people are disposed to think about it objectively and see through all the bluster.
The Scotland Act is NOT the Constitution of our Scottish Nation, and it is full on delusional to assert that the constraints and parameters which the Scotland Act may (or may not),impose upon it’s own puppet assembly can be extrapolated as constraints which can be put upon the Scottish Nation.
The reason the bastard Scotland Act and puppet Holyrood Assembly are constitutionally ambiguous is because while the Holyrood “Institution” is merely a house created and codified by Westminster rules, the bodies elected to that Assembly are delegates and representatives put forward and elected to office by Scotland’s sovereign people. It is my belief the essence of a Parliament is the people, (delegates of sovereign people no less), not the bricks and mortar of the building, nor too, the duplicitous doublespeak of the colonial Scotland Act.
Sturgeon, in her feckless stupidity and incompetence might have conceded Holyrood’s integrity, but thankfully Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty was not hers to command, (thank God), and her idiocy wrecked only Holyrood’s potency and integrity, not Scotland’s. Sadly in Yousaf, we seem to have another dunce no better equipped than Sturgeon, so the whole charade and proxy political soap opera continues unabated.
This irreconcilable incompatibility, our “dug wi twa heids”, has existed since the very inception of the Holyrood Assembly, but what we have witnessed in recent years is a Westminster Government becoming far more animated and aggressive about securing and embedding it’s command over Holyrood, than Scotland’s Community of the Realm has been in repulsing the encroachment, by failing to demand Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and the Claim of Right is properly respected.
In short, we Scots currently have our Constitutional Rights going undefended, and Colonial style usurpations of power going unchecked. But where Scotland’s feckless Government under Sturgeon so conspicuously failed to defend Scotland’s interests, it is my fervent belief that SALVO, and SALVO derived initiatives will not fail, and will ultimately defeat and overturn Westminster’s unconstitutional misadventures, and overturn them to such a resounding extent that the Treaty of Union itself will be rendered untenable.
If you’re a Scot, then have faith in your Nation’s sovereign Constitution, and stop listening to Unionist shills who’s only defence against Scotland’s constitutional integrity is to deny it’s existence.
Not only does Scotland’s Constitution exist, there are component parts of it you can read, and physically touch (if it wasn’t kept behind glass that is). When and where, has any Unionist shill, EVER, been able to demonstrate how or when, by what mechanism, Scotland’s Sovereignty, or even the Claim of Right, was removed from the people? What day did it happen? Give me the date. What ordinance affected the change? It was categorically NOT the Treaty of Union, and both Westminster and English King have repeatedly conceded the Claim of Right remains extant.
They can’t provide that evidence, because it didn’t happen. The core argument of Unionism all bluster and fictitious disinformation.
Even the faithless tongue of a fickle King reluctantly obliged to say three words, Claim of Right, is all the affirmation needed for Scotland’s Constitution to be proven, and the myriad of lies and decades of Unionist disinformation is all undone.
If you cast your mind back to the Salmond trial and what that exposed, and the Fabiani Inquiry and what that exposed.
The names Sturgeon, Swinney and Evans embarrass us and it doesn’t matter whether you are Nationalist or Unionist.
The problem as I see it, is that we are no longer fit to self-govern. We were fit pre-Holyrood, but not post Holyrood.
Our civil-service is bent and our professions have bent to suit. That is the problem that explains all of the other problems.
As I have said before, I have Nationalists in the family, but we are further away than I can remember.
It has been 10-years of managed decline.
God help us all if it turns out to be Sarwar and Baillie next because they are the pits.
Breeks says:
12 July, 2023 at 4:47 am
As a Scot, the power for me to vote does not come from Westminster.
The only power that is coming from Westminster is an assumed power
Aye Breeks, but reality is what people perceive realty to be.
When we can convince enough people of Scotland that the power is already theirs for the taking, then nothing can stop us. But until then, we have to slog it out. The only option for now is to challenge, challenge, and challenge this misconception of Westminster sovereignty at every opportunity. Until it sinks in with enough folk. I think folk are slowly waking up to this, but it can be a painfully slow process at the best of times. Geological. Hang on in there!
@Captain Yossarian says:12 July, 2023 at 5:33 am
The names Sturgeon, Swinney and Evans embarrass us and it doesn’t matter whether you are Nationalist or Unionist
Indeed, but leaving Yousaf off the list is inexplicable. He embarrasses everybody too.
The problem as I see it, is that we are no longer fit to self-govern. We were fit pre-Holyrood, but not post Holyrood
Again, indeed, but that was the fundamental reason HR was set up in the first place, to kill Indy stone dead.
HR has declined into a talking shop. It didn’t have to be that way – AS had what it took to use HR as a stepping stone to a better Scotland, but perhaps he simply exhausted all the possibilities.
It is because HR counts for so little now that its troughing incumbents could connive at the flawed and fraudulent process that anointed HY as “leader of Scotland” with hardly a peep of protest from any source.
Breeks ta 0447am,
Well said. Too many folk, including some in the independence movement have swallowed the nonsense that has been made up by unionists. Sturgeon was one of them. Feart to step out of line with Westminster, and what Westminster did or didn’t think, instead of asserting Scotland’s constitutional rights.
England has no right to stop Scotland if it wishes to pursue independence. Yet, too many in the SNP, fall over, whenever somebody in London says, NO. We will never get independence if we cower every time London speaks.
Over and over again, we need to be forcing one so-called ‘constitutional crisis’ after another. Forcing London to block things, forcing them to literally prohibit democracy, in clear sight of the whole world.
Brexit was the perfect chance. If Sturgeon has said NO, Scotland did not vote to leave the EU, and Scotland is NOT leaving the EU, it would have made things very difficult for London. The whole world was watching, and England had no friends, but Sturgeon, the coward, bowed down to English colonialism (for that is what is is), and let England forcibly strip Scots of their EU citizenship, wholly against their clear wishes.
Folk say, well, that is ok to talk about, but in reality England could just go ahead anyway, but that completely misses the point. Sturgeon made it easy for them. Had she affirmed Scotland’s rights, and democratic decision and made a stand, it would have brought the whole issue to the surface. Their would have been weeks of wrangling in public about why England was being allowed to force Scotland out of the EU. It might even have caused such a stooshie, that brexit may not even have happened at all.
THAT is the point when most folk realised Sturgeon was a fraud. Instead of standing up for Scotland, she happily stood back and let brexit happen. Absolute shameful cowardice, for which she and the SNP should never be forgiven.
Just why is not every single SNP MP not still daily raising brexit. This was wholly against the terms of the union treaty, and undemocratic in every single way. It was a case of England literally bullying Scotland, and forcing Scots to suffer the economic mess caused mainly by brexit that we now have.
THAT should NOT be allowed to be just allowed to fade away. It needs driven home, day after day, after day. If SNP MP’s were not so cosy down in London, living it up with their chums in the Tory and Labour parties (they all go for drinkies together, after standing in the HoC denouncing each other’s policies). To them, it is just a game, a charade played out, their ‘job’. After work, why not go hang out with a few tories eh? I mean, they might argue, some are actually ‘alright’.
What those SNP clowns who are so cosy in London do not see, or have forgotten, is just how much Tories and Labour in England will happily shaft and destroy again, at a moment’s notice. They have forgotten how Scotland has been dragged out of the EU, wholly and completely against our wishes. How Scots have lost their freedom of movement, how Scots have had their right to work in the EU taken from them, By ENGLAND, and nobody else.
We should be angry as hell. The SNP should be angry as hell. This should not be a case of ‘well let’s just try to get on with it’. With each passing day Scots are forcibly out of the EU, more and more of our young people are losing out on the opportunities we all had, our economy is losing out, and our health service is suffering (so many EU staff have left) in Scotland due to England’s bullying undemocratic colonial thuggish behaviour towards Scotland.
Scots should be angry as hell about it. I am. This should NOT be allowed to rest. Not now, not ever.
@Luigi says:12 July, 2023 at 6:56 am
reality is what people perceive realty to be
Naw.
Soz Luigi, but that’s the opposite of reality.
I wasn’t going to comment on Breeks’ “Thought For The Day” post, he kinda has them off pat now and can churn one out weekly.
But the essence of these posts is essentially the exposition of his faith-based belief system.
Read it through and react to it logically and you will immediately see that there is absolutely nothing stopping anybody, Breeks for example, from declaring that as a Sovereign Scot he intends to run and govern Scotland in accordance with the Claim Of Right, because all of the current setup, from WM, through HR, to the Scottish civil service are shams, frauds, usurpers and house Jock tractors.
All Breeks has to do tomorrow (or even today) is announce his intention and invite every Sovereign Scot who thinks like him to march together on Edinburgh.
So why doesn’t he? Because his faith-based fantasy collides with reality. Reality does not align with his perception of our status as Sovereign Scots.
And for now, like the rest of us, he retains that resigned acceptance that reality matters more than anything else.
@Robert Louis says:12 July, 2023 at 7:05
Soz, Bob, you have either forgotten the EU referendum question, never read it at the time, or maybes never did and still don’t understand it:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
Alert readers will immediately see that it was a UK question, allowing only a UK result.
The time to quibble over UK internal constitutional issues was before not after, although even before, the fact that the original Common Market accession plebiscite was also UK wide would have stymied that argument at source.
Soz again Bob, your years of seething anger are grounded on a foolish misunderstanding. What are you like, eh?
Robert Louis says:
12 July, 2023 at 7:05 am
Breeks ta 0447am,
===
You are making the same mistakes that so many people outside these shores do: conflating England with the UK. It was the UK that was in the EU and it had to be the UK that left. Scotland is a constituent part of the UK. As soon as you realise that, you will feel the anger slip away. Better now? Bless.
John Main – Yousaf is the continuity candidate and the damage was done by Sturgeon, Swinney and Evans. That’s the point I was making.
I don’t think in terms of colonialism, but when you are given the chance to self-govern you need, every day, to make it work. No use blaming everyone else.
It was Salmond that did the damage by calling a referendum before he had worked out the tricky details for an iScotland. He simply didn’t convince enough Scots.
@ dasBlimp
Re. “It was the UK that was in the EU and it had to be the UK that left.”
Really?
https://ideasforeurope.eu/activity/publication/the-internal-enlargement-of-the-european-union/
Article 48 states
ROADMAP FOR SUCCESSION IN EUROPEAN UNION MEMBERSHIP IN THE CASE OF MEMBER STATE’S SECESSION OR DISSOLUTION
Which even explains the process.
“Declaration of independence from a state arising from a member state’s secession or dissolution following a democratic process.”
I’m surprised that SNP clown control hasn’t yet formally promoted the policy of actually joining Labour.
I mean the SNP could dissolve itself and merge into Labour because that’s the way they are going.
The SDP if anyone remembers them dissapeared. The SNP is going the same way.
Well done Nicola Sturgeon and the band.
There isn’t a Scottish constitution. It doesn’t exist.
That may help explain why no Scottish politician has ever tried to launch a “constitutional” challenge to the status quo of the UK.
It was not Alex Salmond , it was the media and every unionist lie printed , reiterated and whispered in the ears of the unsure – no pension will be paid into your account , out of the EU, won’t be allowed to use the pound or the embassies ,no promotion or protection of Scotch whisky, Tunnocks , Baxters and Mackies will close down or move south, in fact every large employer will move south, the Russians and aliens will invade on and on with drivel and shite -the unionists way.
And I forgot, Michelle Moane would leave Scotland – how Scotland wept at that prospect.
” He simply didn’t convince enough Scots.”
You post some amount of shite in here.
The majority of Scots voted YES in 2014, the English media, and the Britnat politicians, along with the entire foreign MSM and the Civil Service, worked against and lied to frighten voters into voting no.
“Scotland has been dragged out of the EU, wholly and completely against our wishes.”
Another one squeaking about “We wurr pure dragged oot o’ that EU – against oor WILL!”
How many times have I seen this since that phrase was coined?
I don’t want to contribute to the £13BN PA to receive more “Beeg Eesue, pliss”.
I don’t want the main demographic of Scotland changed.
I don’t want any primary schools where they pat themselves on the back for having NO English speakers, save the teachers.
I don’t want additional legal rights given to the Abu Hamzas of the world and his ilk.
I don’t want globalism – and I don’t want Govanhell – the model of the EU.
I don’t want us to end up like France 2023.
Admit it – the “support” for the EU in Scotland has mainly been from people hoping the EU will jump in, like a big sister, to fight the school bully, because you feel ebil Toaries have stolen your lunch money.
You can still go holidays in Europe, the ebil English haven’t stopped that at all! It wasn’t ENGLAND that took Scotland out of the EU, it was the people of the UK, of which Scotland is still a part of, and I am glad that I was one of them.
dasBlimp,
There are no tricky details for an independent Scotland. We make our own decisions and are responsible and accountable for those decisions.
We would be in the same position as every other country.
It’s perfectly normal and not complicated at all.
@Breeks (7.05) –
Hear hear.
Here’s one most of us have seen but it’s always worth revisiting – John Jappy on what happened to the oil ‘bonanza’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKYdh1ccAPY
“There isn’t a Scottish constitution”
https://salvo.scot/scottish-constitution/
Republicofscotland says:
12 July, 2023 at 8:41 am
… the English media, and the Britnat politicians, along with the entire foreign MSM and the Civil Service, worked against and lied to frighten voters into voting no.
===
Another example of where he got it wrong. Thanks for corroborating my point, ROS.
Breastplate says:
12 July, 2023 at 8:47 am
dasBlimp,
There are no tricky details for an independent Scotland. We make our own decisions and are responsible and accountable for those decisions.
====
Like the SNP you mean…?
SNP/Labour
Labour/Tories
Weirdly I’m comfortable with either as it may be that removing the greens from their sphere of influence changes the direction of travel. Independence ain’t happening in the next 10 years thanks to the SNP so does it even matter which party is in charge if it isn’t the greens?
If end to the Union, is central to anyone’s belief and recognising that while SNP continues to feign any genuine endeavour to that end, is there really any point in voting, at all, for more of the same Devolved tripe?
Apathy or is it the onset of rigor mortis already setting in?
Story circulating, of the Scottish electorate, some how, empowering themselves, to recall the Scottish Parliament from Westminster, to reconvene in Edinburgh!
If that were at all possible, it makes no difference which variety of politician already in office, as this feat having ended the Union, would trigger a general election, for autonomous government in Scotland.
If successful, the above action by the people, would make every current Scottish independence party, utterly redundant and not worth voting for, anytime soon, while within the Union.
Dan says:
12 July, 2023 at 8:20 am
@ dasBlimp
Re. “It was the UK that was in the EU and it had to be the UK that left.”
Really?
https://ideasforeurope.eu/activity/publication/the-internal-enlargement-of-the-european-union/
Article 48 states
ROADMAP FOR SUCCESSION IN EUROPEAN UNION MEMBERSHIP IN THE CASE OF MEMBER STATE’S SECESSION OR DISSOLUTION
=====
Get on with it then.
“you do realise that if you abandon Holyrood, there is literally no legal route whatsoever to Indy, and that any form of UDI by some ragged bunch of Saltire-waving lunatics, with no democratic legitimacy, is going to result in no international recognition whatsoever?”
No legal route to independence? Pfft, who cares?
The UK is fundamentally a criminal enterprise, run by the English establishment on the back of fraudulent authorities obtained unlawfully, and which uses those fraudulent authorities to run criminal scams on a truly national scale, with Scotland being the primary but by no means the only victim. UK governance is an exemplar of organised crime writ large.
If the Scots need to run an ‘illegal’ referendum or some other ‘unauthorised’ plebiscite of some sort, the UK government is the last body on the planet to have any right to complain about it, and that is part of the ICJ canon on independence declarations. They just need to see democratic credentials, not legal ones.
As long as the Scots can demonstrate that their decision was the outcome of a majority of the authochthonous Scots, that’s the sole ‘gold standard’ right there!
“I’ll iterate. UDI by some bunch of Indy supporters without democratic legitimacy is throwing Scotland down the drain. Nobody in the entire world will recognise it. Westminster and the rest of the UK won’t, either. It’s also the permanent death of the Indy movement.
And to have democratic legitimacy, you need Holyrood, and the agreement of the UK parliament for a referendum.”
You just love those lies of yours, ASA, don’t you?
Democratic legitimacy is the sole requirement; Westminster’s agreement to a referendum is not a legitimate requirement because its refusal is a clear and direct example of outside interference in the Scots’ right to determine their own choice of governance. Outside interference is not permitted.
A referendum would be by far the easiest way to properly determine the will of the sovereign Scots, but the English establishment that runs Westminster is mortally afraid of the likely answer, and it knows it can’t convince the Scots of the benefits of the Union to Scotland anymore because of the ample and still growing evidence that Scots and Scotland have been shafted right royally by that establishment for centuries and in an astonishing variety of ways, so it doesn’t want the Scots to even have the choice in the first place, to the point that it pretends that they have no right to self-determination on ANY basis.
The only difficulty with Holyrood running an ‘illegal’ referendum is persuading the Local Authorities play their part in running it, because Westminster’s deliberate muddying of the ‘legal’ waters might persuade some to not get involved, and that’s why we need other methods to find out what the will of the sovereign Scots actually is.
Breastplate says:
12 July, 2023 at 8:47 am
dasBlimp,
There are no tricky details for an independent Scotland. We make our own decisions and are responsible and accountable for those decisions.
===
I must have it all wrong then. Obviously, Scotland is a happy clappy Utopia is it? Scotland is still dependent after given the vote. Other countries spill blood to gain their independence.
Curtain-twitcher General,
There is one ever-riding principle of the UK; what England wants, England gets.
If the UK was a see-saw, England would outweigh every other partner combined and it’s fat arse would never be off the ground.
As long as England interferes with any aspect of Scotland’s affairs, we can quite legitimately whinge about it.
For all the house jocks and little Englanders, we all know the solution to this, don’t we?
*over-riding but perhaps ever-riding is also correct.
No dasBlimp, I mean like any other country, as I have said.
The SNP are just another corrupt party, like every other country has. Denying a country’s right to self determination because they have a corrupt party operating in it is an infantile argument and merely presents the user’s lack of reasoning in combination with their wishful thinking.
dasBlimp,
Should Scotland be an independent country?
@ dasBlimp at9:10 am
You appear to have missed the aspect that it’s no longer relevant as we have left…
But that was then, this is now, and in between all we got from pretty much all politicians was them spouting a load of hogwash as they blustered out their demands and red lines, which of course they then duly capitulated on.
Maybe if Sturgeon had spent more time reading the likes of that article I linked to instead of all her books she tweets about she may have had more of a clue.
Or maybe after meeting PM May in that hotel it turns out the “iron lady” could indeed be turned…
The compromise position to Anti and Pro EU positions held across Scotland would seem to be the obvious solutions of either EEA or EFTA, but it seems some are unable to yield from their own personal views and prejudices on the matter, which isn’t really conducive to moving forward in any meaningful way.
Example being. John Main constantly demands to be “shown the money” in in what would be a self-governing Scotland, and he doggedly tries to critique and denigrate any suggestions proffered, yet he seemed so at ease and accepting when being “shown the money” if it was plastered on the side of a red bus during the “Brexit” campaign.
“Another example of where he got it wrong. Thanks for corroborating my point, ROS.”
I take it you are some spotty face chinthe in his/her twenties sitting at a desk in some English security services building responding to my comment, too young to recall what happened in 2014, and too stupid to have done your homework on it, I’ll help you out a bit kiddo.
The Britnat leader of Project Fear Alistair Campbell, said after no won in 2014, that of course Scotland could’ve used the pound on independence, prior to the vote he said it couldn’t, as did the coke head Osborne.
The head of the Civil Service in 2014 Sir Nicolas MacPherson, said after no had won, that he and his department just couldn’t stand by and watch the UK break up and that his department actively worked to support the union, in which the Civil Service was meant to be impartial, knowing what we know now, its no surprise that MacPherson went on to work for Sturgeon the Judas at the SNP.
As for state propaganda bias in the media.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=london+calling+bbc+bias&qpvt=london+calling+bbc+bias&view=detail&mid=67252CEE6D7FAD62E2D167252CEE6D7FAD62E2D1&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dlondon%2Bcalling%2Bbbc%2Bbias%26qpvt%3Dlondon%2Bcalling%2Bbbc%2Bbias%26FORM%3DVDRE
It was the Ex-Welsh FM Carwyn Jones who pointed out that Brexit cut clean across Scottish sovereignty, and that he was utterly amazed that the Scottish FM Nicola Sturgeon ignored that very point, a point that should’ve led the Scottish government to dissolve the union there and then, in hindsight we now know why Sturgeon the Judas didn’t act on Brexit.
C Yossarian;
“..I speak as a Labour voter…..Salmond was a great First Minister and Ruth Davidson could have been…”
Wait. What? RUTH DAVIDSON?
ROTFLMFAO.
“Ministers ordered to hand over data (report) about Scotland rejoining the EU”
Looking forward to reading this if it ever sees the light of day. Can’t imagine it’s good news more likely to be some inconvenient truth that does not fit well with the Indy plan or it would have been front page of The National, rather than being buried in the bottom of the Murrells wardrobe. They really do take us for fools.
Dan – Support for independence lies at around 50% and I must admit to being surprised by that. However, no-one disputes it.
Scots can see that there is potentially a better future, but that needs to be delivered and that is the problem.
It will clearly not be delivered by the SNP. I am a Labour supporter but it will not be delivered by them either. So that 50% figure is only going to go down from here. My guess is it could go down quite quickly.
All this vexing that goes-on is moot until Nationalists re-group and present an indisputable case for independence to the public.
I stand ready to be convinced. I can think of Stuart Campbell, Robin McAlpine, Alex Salmond and Kenny MacAskill who are credible, but the fact that they are excluded explains the problem you have.
I always read your posts and George’s posts but I tend to skip past most of the others.
Lastly, I was in Aberdeen in the late 70’s and it was a prosperous city. I was back a few years ago and I would not call it prosperous now. So, all of that oil wealth has passed them by and left them poorer.
Scots understand that shouldn’t be happening, but our parliamentarians are so vapid they cannot engage and explain what needs to change and how that can be done.
I was never a great fan of Salmond, but he could do that and so too can MacAskill, but no-one else can and so, until that changes, Nationalism is moribund in Scotland.
Breastplate says:
12 July, 2023 at 9:43 am
dasBlimp,
Should Scotland be an independent country?
=====
Definitely! And I have no doubt that an independent Scotland would thrive.
Republicofscotland says:
12 July, 2023 at 9:56 am
“Another example of where he got it wrong. Thanks for corroborating my point, ROS.”
I take it you are some spotty face chinthe in his/her twenties sitting at a desk in some English security services building responding to my comment,
=======
It’s like you really know me, ROS. Tell me, do you fantasise about me a lot?
Republicofscotland says:
12 July, 2023 at 9:56 am
The Britnat leader of Project Fear Alistair Campbell,
====
Don’t you mean Alistair Darling, darling?
@Dan says:12 July, 2023 at 9:56 am
John Main constantly demands to be “shown the money” in in what would be a self-governing Scotland, and he doggedly tries to critique and denigrate any suggestions proffered, yet he seemed so at ease and accepting when being “shown the money” if it was plastered on the side of a red bus during the “Brexit” campaign
You are assuming it was money that caused me to vote to leave the EU. Let’s run with that and see where it takes us.
It shows that I was lied to, I am now poorer, so I won’t be fooled a second time, i.e. at a future Indy vote. Whoopsee, direct hit on foot time.
As it happens though, I did my own estimate of how much I realistically thought Brexit would cost me and the wider economy (a 10% loss) and I calculated it would be worth it to me to remove all the foreigners from my local Scottish streets. Make jobs, homes, school places, medical appointments, that sort of thing, available once again to us indigenous Scots.
I see no reason to modify that 10% figure with hindsight BTW. The much bigger economic contractions we are seeing are due to the Chinese Flu and the Russti War.
What you flatly refuse to acknowledge, Dan, is that most Scots do indeed care about the money. You continue to argue against “show us the money” as a pro-Indy influencer whilst simultaneously banging on about our electricity generation surpluses and remaining quiet whilst others bang on about decades of oil and gas theft.
It’s not about whether that money exists. It does. And it’s not about whether Scots want a bigger share of the money. They do.
It’s about the real-world mechanisms and processes that would have to happen for that money to be channeled into my wallet. And everybody else’s wallets.
It’s about the rational, grounded acceptance that all of the assets, exploited and potential, that accrue to Scotland’s geographical area are already owned, licensed, controlled, occupied, by potentially hostile institutional and state actors, with layers of lawyers backed up by hard men with guns.
So, showing us the money consists of demonstrating the processes by which these assets will be prised from the cold, dead hands of the current owners and redistributed (in part) to me and the rest of us Scots.
It needs to look at how long the tortuous Brexit negotiations took, about the uncounted billions the UK will be paying the EU for broken agreements, decades after we are all dead, and acknowledging that the same millstones will be chained to iScotland post-Indy.
Or, it’s about being honest about the international pariah status of a UDI Scotland, how long that will last, and how much that will cost us all.
Finally, as I have said before, this is not really about me. Just do what it takes to convince everybody else and my views won’t amount to a hill of beans.
Anyway, work calls. Taxes to pay, Scottish taxes to pay on top, and HY can’t eradicate poverty, homelessness and lumpy porridge if I don’t shoulder my share of the burden.
RoS, at 9:02am,
that isn’t a Scottish constitution, it’s a weblink to a bunch of nonentities who say fuck all of anything authoritative.
Xaracen,
you are beyond parody. Bluster, idiocy, teenage misplaced outrage, ignorability. Get back to us when you’ve got muddy knees, have grown up, and know how the world works. Until then, keep quiet, child.
@Breastplate
Let us suppose Scotland left the union, joining the EU would be more of the same, and more than likely worse. How, then, could any sensible person describe such a situation as “independence”?
I stopped voting SNP after it became clear they were now a globalist party. I was recently quite interested in some new Scottish independence party (“New Dawn”, perhaps? I can’t remember) formed shortly before the formation of Alba, they were anti-EU and anti-globalism – but were quickly shut down by TPTB as they were deemed to have former members of some proscribed rightwing party within their ranks.
Make of that what you will. Somebody doesn’t like the idea of TRUE independence…
John Main;
It’s the revenues, stoopid.
And not paying for Trident/HS2/Northern Line extensions/Westminster refurb/Lords etc etc etc….
Republicofscotland says:
12 July, 2023 at 10:01 am
It was the Ex-Welsh FM Carwyn Jones who pointed out that Brexit cut clean across Scottish sovereignty.
=====
Carwyn Jones also argued against Scottish independence. LOL. Funny old world innit?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-25003045
Republicofscotland says:
12 July, 2023 at 10:01 am
in hindsight we now know why Sturgeon the Judas didn’t act on Brexit.
————————
The snp are the most anti-eu party in the uk, they have always voted against the eu.
@Republicofscotland says:12 July, 2023 at 9:56 am
spotty face chinthe
I can’t decide whether to object to this on rational grounds, i.e. the facial hair would obscure any spots, or on outraged virtue signalling grounds, i.e. RoS is insulting the valued, even perhaps sacred, iconic symbols of a proud, ancient, national culture.
Fruitella the hun.
The other day you did the cancel culture, I await your apology thingy maboob looking for a apology from myself.
Suggesting that you had been mis-aligned.
Sorry no apology forth coming.
I had the chance to return to wings today and re- read my post,
There was no personal mention on what nationality you were, there was no mention that you were from either side of the border from me to you, that is your paranoia,
For correction purposes perhaps and re readable by everyone,
I Suggested that you were confused over ” whose” legislations the Scottish government is under.
That you nip the ears of Scots, when they are not the legal owners of our goverment or laws, everything come under the Scotland Act legislated by Westminster.
You were to quick to jump on and mis-align a Wings over Scotland Commenter.
I am sure you will never apologise to myself for your misinterpretation of the post. as that seems to be the modern mindset to cry wolf.
Stu,
I thought the SNP and Greens were Labour.
And that they are under one party politics, they just don a different jacket from the peg when they open the outside doors.
Fuckin hell,
John Main and his “names” really have taken over the asylum.
Who in their right mind would actually pay the Rev to read his endless load of guff?
Main and his “names” should start up their own blog, and let Wings return to something resembling a Scottish independence website.
Curtain-twitcher General,
As has been mentioned numerous times these past years, many people here have noted the pros and cons of EFTA v the EU, it does not mean they don’t believe in self determination.
There is no such thing as pure independence, every country relies on trade of some description, so it would be helpful to your world view if you can accept this.
What I want and I would imagine a great many others when talking about independence is self determination, the ability to make our own decisions (good or bad) and change them if necessary.
It is completely immaterial to me which party is in charge of an independent Scotland, they will be new parties in the main and their powers will be transient depending on the Scottish electorate.
As I’ve said, pure independence does not exist, there is a trade off. We need to get as close to making as many decisions for Scotland as possible, we are the ones who should be making those trade offs, nobody else.
The idea that if we don’t have pure independence, we should have nothing neglects either wilfully or ignorantly all the middle ground.
It is important for any country to have more control over their affairs, not less.
Scotland can prioritise Scotland’s concerns. England couldn’t do this even if it wanted to.
Captain Yossarian 5:33
**The problem as I see it, is that we are no longer fit to self-govern. We were fit pre-Holyrood, but not post Holyrood.**
That was exactly what it was intended to do. It was set up for a perpetual Labour government with some clauses added incase the natives ever got in. The Scotland Act & reserved matters exposed the absolute shit show & constraints placed on it. It was only designed to be a glorified county council talking shop & peppered with saboteurs throughout. Sturgeons job was made even worse when she allowed Brexit to happen. No consent given to the internal market bill rubbish & over 80 areas stripped from it by Westminster. Those powers included Scottish NHS, procurement, water, agriculture, fishing etc so now it’s even more scuttled.
When did we ever govern ourselves better from direct rule? I, along with the whole of Scotland must have missed golden age !!!!
I can only assume you mean the era of when us verminous Scots did as we were telt while being royally shafted & living under abject poverty. Don’t forget the SNP mitigates almost 600 million of Yoon policies. Policies that’d be in place when a Yoon takes the keys. That’ll include prescriptions, tuition & bedroom tax.
The problem we need independence. Pocket money won’t cure our problems & neither will fake money raising schemes that instantly penalise that pocket money. The trick of giving with one hand & then deducting it right back with the other.
Interesting times ahead tho..
If a Unionist FM gets in Holyrood & suddenly starts showering us with gifts then it’ll be highly suspicious & will prove it was spite all along.
Or if they become exasperated trying to function a branch office & just keep following the memo from London.
I think the first area they will attack is the Scotland Act. Jackass is already set up to swoop in & rule direct through his office.
There is No great Seal of Scotland for HY to use, it was discarded by king by James in his retreat, so government could not officially continue.
The one in use is nowadays is merely a replica and GB fabrication.
Curtain-twitcher General.
Let us suppose that Scotland is not in the treaty at all and it is just a fabrication of Colonialism,
The Scots have not yet had a vote to join the treaty of union.
It was denied to them in 1707, recorded in Writing on UK parliament site 2022 & 2023.
A Scot Abroad said;
“Xaracen,
you are beyond parody. Bluster, idiocy, teenage misplaced outrage, ignorability. Get back to us when you’ve got muddy knees, have grown up, and know how the world works. Until then, keep quiet, child.”
Your refutations are unpersuasive. Perhaps more substance than fury would help?
Probably not. Frustrating, isn’t it, when the peasants can read, write, and think for themselves?
Insults are fun bdtt
Main is a sunday post reader suffering from terminal presbyterian brain rot
ASA – I misjudged, not a half-wit, but the kind of guy who still needs to sit exams to achieve that status
the sort of arrogant idiot who knows fuckall about even the places he’s been and the things he’s been involved in
sitting there with the wikipedia tabs open
the daily mail gazeteer of the world
the daily telegraph business section
chatham house briefing notes
a guide to online trolling
and a mind filled with pathe newsreels and world service broadcasts
looking at the frequency and desperate attention seeking of posting it leads to the question
– does he do this for a living (like the hasbara)
which would we sad because … he’s not very good at it, nor will he ever be as he lacks the intellect, wit and social skills
not many converts, not having much luck – though some people will play
but what would be sadder is : if he did this for FREE
wow. Nothing better to do than sit here all day, waiting for a bite, some small bit of nitpickery.
here is a guide to trolling
– establish trust, earn credentials
– offer light criticism of method
– undermine the popular poster
– gradually attack the goal itself
(and a ton of other things – setup sockpuppets to agree with each other)
you have to go slowly, get support, then drip the acid into the works. It takes more skill than it seems to have.
I smell little-englander.
Chas, is too dumb to bother with.
Ellis, I miss him, his intellectual pretensions (the 105IQ reckons it is a 150), the hysterical style, the thin skinned fragility, the lack of self awareness and the sanctimoniousness, at least he never tried to claim ohms law was a barrier to indy.
John Main,
Scots do not need to consider UDI.
It was done for them in 1707, by those down south.
By Extinguishing the Scottish parliament, the Scottish parliament Acts, the Scottish parliaments representatives prior to the establishment of GB Parliament,
Englands parliament has presumed to use or transfer a extinguished and closed Scottish parliament Acts for its own Westminsters parliaments acts and Scots domestic law acts under Colonialism into a “Self proclaimed” international treaty with GB and Scotland thereafter,
Scotland & the Great British/ UK parliament do not agree or hold on a treaty of union with each other.
The Great British parliament cannot make a decision in Scotland,
The Devolved government to Scotland is under Westminster legislation,
What is EnGlands westminster parliament going to do?
Pretend to have a legal battle with itself in Scotland?
Asking A Scot Abroad
How did the 65 countries that have gained independence from Britain do it. Did they ask for a Section 30 or equivalent ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom#Evolution_of_Dominions_to_independence
never mind the knockabout fun, consider the more practical, this
https://archive.is/de0Rb
now ruminate on “cat among the pigeons” and “never gonna happen”
maybe they mean it, maybe its just a distraction
consider the local politician
– say stuff to get elected
– get elected, find you cant do stuff because no-money
– ponder fixing the council tax system which gives the wealthy an easy time of it
– realise you will never win an election if you do this
– go back to the top
you can categorise the “things never get better” due to a form of entropy working at societal level, but it could also be a lot of these “null loops” – just go round in circles, doing nothing … wait, isn’t that all of politics, just interspersed with occasional really bad ideas.
I wonder what the Greens position on this will be – surely more taxes from the rich can be used to greenify and rainbow-paint so many things … but given its only a handful of middle class wankers who vote for them, is it wise? The middle class do love a bit of virtue signalling in public, in private they like low taxes, freebies and writeoffs.
Gord,
those countries weren’t part of the U.K. Different entirely.
Scotland is part of the U.K., and quite possibly the world’s leading colonising country of the last 300 years.
In reality, Scotland (nor England, Northern Ireland, nor Wales) aren’t seen as countries by world bodies. The UK is. So to the rest of the world, it’s just regions of one nation. They don’t care. And when there’s a lawful route via S30, anybody taking an irregular route to Scots Indy via UDI, particularly if there hasn’t been a democratic affirmation, is just going to be ignored.
The bigger question, never answered by any Indy supporter, is how is Scotland going to generate enough income to pay for itself?
Gord says:
12 July, 2023 at 12:34 pm
How did the 65 countries that have gained independence from Britain do it. Did they ask for a Section 30 or equivalent ?
——————
scotland isn’t a country it’s a region
dasBlimp 10:15
He could speak against. He was a bystander.
Didn’t mean he wasn’t right. Our Union is with England, not with the Welsh.
It is a phenomenon tho. The constant angst that unionists have that every country in the whole wide world has a right to self determination, that they sign up & swear to uphold under international law, except you Scotland. You don’t. You’ve to remain chained.
Why?
Cause I said so.
ASA
Challenge the constitution? What? like holding a referendum? ya eejit!
Your (lack of) skills are wasted on here. There are constitutional experts who disagree where England’s sovereignty begins & ends this is because far from being settled – it never was. & Why constitutional experts are torn. Nothing was ever written because it was never ever agreed. It co exists by consent & why we remain a separate & distinct COUNTRY in a trading union. BTW, that internal market pish brought about by brexshit, is in direct conflict with the claim of right. Devolution was supposed to paper over the cracks – well that papered over absolutely fck all because in this *devolution settlement* they drew up, they forgot to include England’s devolved parliament with the exact same constraints they gave us.
Brexshit. Some miss the point. 62% of Scotland voted for that union regardless of whether you agreed. That’s 7% more favoured the EU than the bastardised UK union. It was up to Scotland to decide when we left. Not England. As Dan said, if only Sturgeon had taken her head out of her books & actually read the requirements to secede.
We could’ve been out of the UK AND later, the EU. People seem to forget the line *We’ll not be dragged out of the EU* was a manifesto commitment & one that gave Sturgeon her iron clad mandate with 56 MPs sent to Westminster to enact it.
It wasn’t, as some would like to portray, grievance politics. She had a solid mandate from Scotland .
The Yoon pish of the suck it brigade entirely miss the point.It was not in England’s gift to run roughshod of Scotland.
I blame Sturgeon tho – thick as shit & her MPs & MSPs don’t have the first fckn clue about Scotland.
There is a distinct confusion between the colonial version of a treaty ( even by Scottish independence supporters) and actual recorded facts of history to the detriment of Scots and Scotlands future,
It is a fact of history recorded and written by Westminster parliament for more than two years past now.
That Westminster published publically to the world that it was deliberately calculated by all involved not to give the Scots a vote to join the treaty of union,
Been as the question has never reappeared or been approached again since 1707.
What is the position of the Scots today?
Unable to act within a fallacious treaty?
Unable to pronounce UDI due to not being attached to the British Westminster parliament?
Unable to have Scottish representative in Englands Westminster parliament.
However very definately Sovereign and separate from Westminster Government, from Englands Monarch and Crown,
And from the Scotland Act.
One day for all Scots struggling for a independent Scotland the penny will drop as to the ramifications of that Westminster statement.
Like the enduring mantra to convert soft No into Yes,
or the persistence of STU to steadily inform us of how wrong the SNP and Green have been white washing us.
It takes time for these things to sink into the psychy. It takes time and persistence to encourage Scotland to take another peep into the Hoax and that Scots have undergone a thorough white wash in Colonialism with regards the treaty of union,
Not solely on just one issue, but repeatedly with inflicted propaganda of a Coloniser,
Two years three years preferably sooner,
However long it takes for the ramifications penny to drop.
Like Stu in his endevour’s persistence is the way for this to happen.
Highlander;
Scotland is not a ‘region’ of anywhere. Fool.
Never answered by any indy supporters?
Are you sure about that? I think I’ve said it at least a dozen times to you already..
By taking full control of our own resources.
By starting to charge England for it’s gas, oil, electricity instead of giving it away for free.
By retaining upto & over 35 billion of *UK imposed fees* deducted from our own revenues.
By settling up our shared UK assets.
There’s a few to start with..
Geri,
calm down. Or you will have a heart seizure of misplaced rage, misunderstood history, and misinterpreted understanding of how international politics works.
You might want to get back to the colouring in books or painting by numbers. It’s less stressful than being on the losing side of a Scots Indy debate.
@Confused says:12 July, 2023 at 12:27 pm
Main is a sunday post reader suffering from terminal presbyterian brain rot
Good one, fits on a T-shirt too.
And maybes a headstone.
Terminal eh? How long have I got?
BTW, I miss Andy Ellis too.
Maybes I’ll do a “Ron Clark” and revive him. Can’t have too many names!
Geri,
The actual Scots are not in a union with England,
Go read it and copy it.
For the door out is the propaganda Colonial door we (supposedly) came in.
That is how doors work, even legal ones.
Scots have sound political ammo, they are not seeing how good it is, there too busy waving their guns in the air aimlessly.
Busy not looking at the paper target.
@Geri says:12 July, 2023 at 1:08 pm
People seem to forget the line *We’ll not be dragged out of the EU* was a manifesto commitment
Well, well, every day a school day.
Incomprehensible to me how it wasn’t widely publicised before the EU Referendum “BTW, in the event of Scotland voting to stay in and the rUK voting to leave, we’ll be Independent”.
Cos that would sure as fuck have livened up the pre-referendum debate. Even in the Sunday Post.
Are you sure, Geri? Gonna have to ask you for evidence to back up that claim.
@James Che says:12 July, 2023 at 12:02 pm
Humza Yousaf, Pretendy First Minister of Scotland and Keeper of the Pretendy Great Seal.
Often to be found strutting his stuff in the wee, pretendy parliament at Hollyrood.
I Like it!
A Scot Abroad.
Scots are not in the UK, they were not invited to be in the UK, go read it.
The question and vote has never been repeated since 1707 either for Scots.
highlander said;
“Scotland isn’t a country it’s a region.”
And how many ‘regions’ have their own constitution, legal system, monarchy with its own crown, state religion, education system, parliament and a national sovereignty that has a completely different basis from the other ‘region’ of the UK, different languages, a different national culture, and a clear border defining where those distinctions apply?
Scotland is a kingdom, a country, a nation, and a people. It is merely in a club with another Kingdom for the purpose of joint governance from a shared parliament. In that sense, it is also still a self-governing state, it just shares that self-governance with another self-governing state, which is also a kingdom.
Your analysis is inept.
The reset button for Scots and Scotland is discovering that Scots were refused a vote to enter into the treaty of union in 1706/1707.
You will find that information on UK parliament site., copy it for ruture reference.
The other parallel reset button is knowing that the “Queen of Scots” ( not Scotland) never gave Royal assent to the treaty of union, it has always only been presumed,
You will find that information on the Law Society of Scotland.
The other reset button is that when Englands Westminster parliament called Scottish peers and barons to Westminster it was after the Scottish parliament was closed EXTINGUISHED and SINE DINE’d
So No Scottish representative from the Scottish parliament have ever sat in Westminster parliament.
Scot Abroad says:
11 July, 2023 at 7:51 pm
***I haven’t a vote for any Holyrood election, nor in a Scottish constituency at a General Election, but nearly all of the permutations in the article above seem reasonable to me. Indy off the table, probably for a decade or so. And the Scots get the government they vote for.***
Then absolutely fck all to do with you really. You don’t have a vote here.
& Pray tell what Yoontastic arithmetic are you using? How will Scots get the government we vote for when over half the voting population want independence from England?
& As some Labour voted up there, liked Ruth Davidson (WTF?), Proving there isn’t a baw hairs difference to Tory. Why don’t they stop pretending & just vote Tory?
& This’ll really boil yer kettle but are you aware there are English independence web forums you can go to? Go tell them the error of their ways. See how far you get cause they’ll be far more successful in securing everyone’s independence for us.
Yer talents & misinformation is wasted on here.
Xaracen,
you tripped over and fell over your own legs from the starting block of your comment.
Scotland doesn’t have a constitution. Historically, it was once a nation, but isn’t now. It’s a region of a much better nation that is known as the UK. Scotland is about as important as Yorkshire is to the UK. But rather chippier, and weekly getting more on the nation’s tits with the endless whining. Plus, it’s expensive, and not doing anything to address that.
@Geri
So – it was Sturgeon who first came up with that line, that I have heard endlessly repeated in the past few years: “dragged out of the EU against our will”?
Another nail in her coffin, if this be true, as parroting that phrase is, in my eyes, the mark of a confirmed NPC, content to let Sturgeon do the thinking for them.
James Che,
you are reliably loopy with your endlessly repeated batshit ancient guff misunderstanding, but that post is loopier than a loopy thing in a loop the loop.
Scots are part of the UK. It’s pretty much what is printed on the tin of what the UK is.
It was a 2015 General Election manifesto pledge. (Brexit ref was planned for 2016)
Sturgeon won that mandate with over 50% of the vote & returning 56 MPs to Westminster.
THAT is why people heard it so often.
She didn’t just make it up out of nowhere. When 62% later voted to remain, that was her iron clad double mandate.
It wasn’t a slogan she just made up. That was the TWO mandate she was given by Scotland.
@Geri
I see. Just as well she didn’t get her way, then… not content with being ruled by Westminster, she would rather be dictated by someone else.
Too bad, globalists.
Someone posted a quote here, from a UN document, a year or three ago, which had the UK registered as a unitary state (NOT a ‘country’), comprising (originally) two countries, a Principality and a province. It was subsequently updated to three countries and a province, when Wales was no longer regarded as a Principality.
I’ve tried to find the document on the web with no luck. Onnybuddy know where to find it? Some people need to be telt.
@ Geri
The UKers infesting the btl here with their dishonest rambling most certainly DO have good reason to resist Scotland Independence.
Without Scotland, the England UK is in their own words
Too poor-
Too wee
and as the World is increasingly aware, too stupid.
They can’t envision survival without Scotland. Hence the threats of violence, the lies and deviant spook army activities.
John Main
***Incomprehensible to me how it wasn’t widely publicised before the EU Referendum “BTW, in the event of Scotland voting to stay in and the rUK voting to leave, we’ll be Independent”.***
It was. Why do you think 62% voted to remain? LOL!!
Only the % was relevant to enact Sturgeons TWO mandates.
The whole world & it’s grannie knew that Scotland would’ve had to have its own EU referendum in the event Sturgeon had the balls to use her mandate to call indyref2.
THEN Scotland could have decided for itself as an independent Country wether it really wanted membership or not. Or its own EU package like NI.
Maybe you missed all this by watching yer state funded propaganda channel & the Yoontastic MSM telling you the EU was murdering newborns & swarms of Turks were coming to eat all the English jellied eels they could munch on..
Eyes were always on the prize, John. Sorry you missed it though I dunno how. Maybe you should read manifestos.
Here we go – SNP 2015 General Election Manifesto:
Europe
Will oppose a referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU. Will demand “double majority” lock, meaning that Britain would remain part of the EU unless England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland all vote to leave.
That seems some way short of the claim that *We’ll not be dragged out of the EU* was a manifesto commitment and more like a wishlist.
Still, recollections may differ, as somebody famous once said.
It’s all water under the bridge now, but if the SNP had said, prior to the EU Referendum, that in the absence of the “double majority” lock, then they would have started immediate preparations for Indy, I would have a lot more sympathy.
It would certainly have altered the voting intentions of many Scots, including me.
Oh FFS Geri.
Everybody and their dog expected Remain to win the EU Referendum and why not? We had been exposed to relentless pro-Remain propaganda from just about everybody for yonks. Just look at the bookies in the run-up to the day.
Hell, even Bojo expected Remain to win, which is why he and his pals were in a funk when the result came through.
The whole exercise was a Tory bluff to shut up the Eurosceptics once and for all and take the legs out from under Farage. Only, the riff-raff in England stuck 2 fingers up at their elders and betters, and who can blame them? The English are like that – they have an aversion to cringing.
If Scotland really believed at the time that by breaking the promised “double lock” we could have got Indy, then Scotland would have voted Out. That’s if Scotland wanted Indy, of course, true Independence, free from Brussels rule.
A Scot Abroad said;
“Xaracen, you tripped over and fell over your own legs from the starting block of your comment.
Scotland doesn’t have a constitution. Historically, it was once a nation, but isn’t now. It’s a region of a much better nation that is known as the UK. Scotland is about as important as Yorkshire is to the UK. But rather chippier, and weekly getting more on the nation’s tits with the endless whining. Plus, it’s expensive, and not doing anything to address that.”
Your ignorance and desperation are getting more obvious by the day, and your tantrums more frequent and wild as a result.
From Scotland’s 1689 Claim of Right (Online Records of the Parliaments of Scotland);
“Declaration of the Scottish Convention of the Estates
Whereas King James the Seventh being a professed papist did assume the regal power, and acted as King without ever taking the oath required by law, whereby the King, at his access to the government is obliged to swear, to maintain the Protestant religion, and to rule the people according to the laudable laws; and did by the advice of wicked and evil counsellors, invade the fundamental constitution of this Kingdom and altered it from a legal limited monarchy, to an arbitrary despotic power; …”
There you go, ASA, Scotland’s constitution mentioned explicitly in one of its own legal documents, pointing out that it took the form of a ‘legal limited monarchy’, and it did so to justify what it did next, which was to legally sack King James VII for his violations of that constitution; and just to remind the doubters, that was a perfect demonstration of the lack of sovereignty of the Scottish monarch and of his parliament, which was sacked along with him.
And for your information, those ‘laudable laws’ were and still are Scotland’s constitution, and are guaranteed their permanence in Scotland by the Treaty.
At BDTT: this any good?
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom
Had it in my faves.
Slight correction I have to make..
..cause SNP actually had a triple mandate. They went on to win Holyrood elections too that same year.
A triple mandate given to Sturgeon by Scotland & Sturgeon shat it. Spaffed it all up the wall for absolutely hee-haw. Not even a proxy wee new pretendy Devo power in return for rolling over & playing ignorant. Not even an unimportant one regarding legislation to hold a fete or something like the absolute irrelevant road signs LOL
I wonder what screws Mayhem turned in that hotel room. WTF was it even held there in the first place? Must’ve been off the record bullshit kept out of the FMs official residence.
There should be an inquiry of what exactly was discussed.
Xaracen,
then you’ll have no difficulty in linking to somewhere that actually has Scotland’s constitution written down, in one place?
There isn’t such a thing.
Xaracen,
Scotland and Scots are all you say, a nation a people,a Country.
But the Scots as a nation themselves remain separate and unattached to the GB Westminster parliament and from the later UK Westminster parliament it state this on the UK parliament site.
That all concerned saw the Scots people and nation as a separate entity from the Scottish 1707 entity of parliament, and from the peers and barons within that parliament,
They also viewed the Nation of Scots as a separate Sovereign entity from the monarch,
This is perhaps why the Queen Anne did not or could not give royal assent to the Treaty according to the Law Society of Scotland.
It is Under propaganda that royal assent has/ was presumed to be given though,
Other wise there was no necessity to debate by politicians on wether to give the Scots a vote at all in 1706/1707 on joining the treaty of union after everyone else respectively had made their decision on a treaty,
The Scots to this day remain separate from the GB and UK parliament and those who’s names and signatures committed themselves to a treaty whilst not actually including Scots the nation of people,
Many have falsely argued that in those days the people did not get consideration to vote and there was no democracy,
However in this one recorded instance it was debated wether to give the Scots a vote to join the treaty of union as evidenced from the Westminster parliament site,
The decision not to give the Scots a vote after discussion because the Scots were likely to vote NO,
Tells us is this particular instance the Scots did not join the treaty of union, the option to join by vote in Scotland was withheld,
The discussion and debate on a vote to join the treaty the union surprisingly enough was never considered for the english nation.
Again this is perhaps cue to the fact that a monarch in Scotland was not Sovereign,
The people are.
John Main
You seem to have missed a lot.
That lock mentioned above was an assurance to Alex Salmond that ALL PARTS of the UK had to agree to leave for the Brexit vote to be enacted. That manifesto was holding them to that commitment but they just went ahead & triggered art50 despite NI & Scotland voting to remain.
Also from the SNP manifesto;
We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people –
****or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.****
There you go. Brexit was ****the material change in circumstances*** that everyone & their dug knew was indyref2 in the event of a remain vote.
A Scot Abroad,
Actually you are considerably ignorant of historic record.
The not so loopy fact from the UK parliament recorded site 2023 states that Scots as a people and nation were considered Sovereign Scots, enough democratically from the elite and monarchy of Scotland that a vote should be given, not to Englands nation, but to the Scottish nation.
By not given it after discussion leaves Sovereign Scots outside the treaty of Union.
The old guff and nonsense is quite up to date in 2023 on the The Westminster parliament site that deals with the other Country of the UK,
Angus resigns the whip. Anyone else have the courage to do the same?
BDTT
https://www.thoughtco.com/unitary-state-government-pros-cons-examples-4184826
This is why we seek total independence . The likes of A Scot fae somewhere, J Main, dasBlimf etc are on here is beyond me?
It’s a independence site so if they don’t want it- why even come on here ?
Have they not got some knitting to get on with.
A Scot Abroad said;
“Xaracen, then you’ll have no difficulty in linking to somewhere that actually has Scotland’s constitution written down, in one place?
There isn’t such a thing.”
I just did, ‘Online Records of the Parliaments of Scotland’, in case you missed it. These are digitised copies of around 16,000 documents. They’re in there. Take your time, no rush.
It isn’t in one document or even a well-defined set, any more than England’s constitution is, as you well know. And since England’s constitution is what Westminster unlawfully applies over the UK, that lack of being in one place obviously doesn’t mean that the constitution doesn’t exist or has no power, so you can sod the fuck off with your dodgy framing!
Up to date ( not old guff, stuff or nonsense) according to Westminster parliament site in 2023.
The Scottish parliament extinguished itself from the treaty of union by agreeing to the terms/ conditions and was immediately extinguished once domestic ratification took place in both parliament,
That extinguished the Scottish domestic Act immediately,
For Englands parliament could no longer use the Scotland domestic Acts to the treaty, as they were not english parliaments domestic law,
Neither were they to become international law when extinguished by the agreed terms and conditions of ratification.
The treaty of union Act/s terminated with extinguishing the Scottish parliament from entering the union,
The Acts remain some of the last Acts of the Old Scottish parliament before it Closed its doors from the treaty.
Englands Westminster parliament had or ever had passed a law, statue or piece of legislation to accept Scots law acts into its parliament,
When the ( Scottish parliaments laws acts) failed to enter the new GB parliament once the Scottish parliament ceased in a parliamentary union with Westminster,
So cid the Authority of Westminsters English parliament to then convert iScots domestic law that hac ceased into a international treaty..
The 1706/1707 Westminster parliament mislead the other nations ,
Xaracen says:
12 July, 2023 at 4:04 pm
I just did, ‘Online Records of the Parliaments of Scotland’, in case you missed it. These are digitised copies of around 16,000 documents. They’re in there. Take your time, no rush.
It isn’t in one document or even a well-defined set
=====
Much as I hate to jump in on someone else’s debate, but I think what you are saying there is that there isn’t a written constitution. Unless…unless you pick out separate words from the 16000 digitised copies and then you can string them together to fit the words of the constitution that you have in your head, Damnably clever that, xaracen.
John Main.
You spout absolute horseshit.
It was a dead cert England was going to Brexshit. You obviously weren’t paying attention to the toxic campaign tapping into England’s inherent racism. Swarms were coming, the Turks, EUs army, the Tory vans & billboards etc etc
Resulting in the frenzy that seen an MP murdered.
You’d have had to be wearing blinkers not to see the direction they were going to take..
But hey, worked on you eh? All you needed was a slogan on a bus!!
But if you’d actually listened to parly it told the real story of why it was an exit. The EU was starting to clamp down on countries failing to uphold their rules & directives..
1. Alignment between countries over Pensions. STAT!
2. Land reform. New rules of a land registry of Countries declaring who owned what, by whom & where & relevent taxes due.
& Bojos ambition was to be PM. Whatever way the cards fell with Brexshit & he backed leave cause it was winning & as he’s a lazy bastard, all the groundwork had already been won.
Xaracen,
There is no telling those that do not want to know, their way is are blocked.
They want to perceive the world in the narrow track that already fits in with their established and narrow history they think they suits their belief system,
Nothing new for them to learn, cos they have made up their minds.
Online digital records of parliamentary Histories wether of Scotland or England is to be ignored if one wishes to remain a selective imbecile in a B Simpson…. DOHh state of mind,
dasBlimp said;
“Much as I hate to jump in on someone else’s debate, but I think what you are saying there is that there isn’t a written constitution. Unless…unless you pick out separate words from the 16000 digitised copies and then you can string them together to fit the words of the constitution that you have in your head, Damnably clever that, xaracen.”
From your analysis, there is therefore no English or UK constitution either. Damnably clever, that, dasBlimp!
Given the SNP made much currency from undermining Labour for its Red Tory/Better Together dalliance a decade ago, would it not further damage the SNP brand if they did a deal with Labour? Would it not be seen by much of the country as hypocritical for this very reason, much the same way Sturgeon was criticised for “demanding” (yes, I know, but I’m trying to see it from the layperson’s standpoint here) a second referendum because Scotland was “being taken out of Europe against its will”, as she spent 3+ years trying to keep England and Wales IN the EU against theirs?
STU,
I fully realise that you’re life is not as it should be for you and perhaps your family due to many outside influences,
And I wish you well in resolving these issues,
Perhaps while not much is developing politically you could give yourself a wee break by posting some of your lovely photos again, I am sure we can manage for a few days or a week as long as we know you will be back,
I myself have been through a tough few years and I know there is nothing quite like nature and good joke to bring happy faces Solace to the soul,
Your are more than just a supply chain facts and news site for Scottish independence supporters, you are a human being first, and you have family,
I am Not suggesting it is compulsary by any means.,your continued dedication is amazing and much appreciated,
When your busy looking out for others, sometimes you can forget or are forced to forget about yourself in the mix, just taking a wee moment for you and yours and enjoy the summer while it lasts,
Everyone can manage for a short period I am sure, perhaps other commenters and posters could tide you over with contributions meanwhile if they able too 🙂
All this EU stuff about them being just as bad etc, the point is, back then – when we were in, they offered Scotland some protection against the worst colonial actions of our overlords..all those items that the english parliament stole back on leaving. Now, things are different, we are out – despite sturgeon and blackford’s feet stamping, and as things stand it is only right that we re-appraise our position. As Scotland, the country, not a region of the UK (Greater Englandshire). A trade agreement via EFTA is surely the best route for us, allowing us to trade with Europe and also to manage our own border and trade with our southern neighbour. Hashing over remain vs leave is backward looking and just another waste of energy as our trolls love.
@robbo says:12 July, 2023 at 4:03 pm
It’s a independence site so if they don’t want it- why even come on here ?
Two reasons, Bob:
1) I’m wanting to be persuaded.
2) As a Sovereign Scot, I feel it is my patriotic duty to try to improve a little on the gibberings of some of the regular roasters. It pains me to see Scots publicly making such utter fools of themselves and our country.
Re 1) above, on you go, fill yer boots.
Have they not got some knitting to get on with.
Xaracen,
You cannot conjure up a constitution from 16,000 old documents.
You must be a total fruitloop if that’s your answer. Pathetic.
John Main
Agree with everything you said.
Of course, in the eyes and minds of the roasters, the likes of you and I are either trolls, Unionists, English or the best of them all MI5 operatives! I actually feel sorry for some of them with their obvious mental problems.
John Main/Chas/ASA:
“to see Scots publicly making such utter fools of themselves”
“I actually feel sorry for some of them with their obvious mental problems.”
“You must be a total fruitloop”
Colonialism, as these and many other derogatory and racist comments demonstrate, works by ‘debasing the colonized’, questioning ‘all his features’, ‘even his biology’, and ‘reminding him of all his deficiencies’. So now you know why you do it.
A Scot Abroad said;
“You cannot conjure up a constitution from 16,000 old documents.”
Why not? And where exactly is England’s illicit UK constitution hiding?
“You must be a total fruitloop if that’s your answer. Pathetic.”
Your gratuitous insults tell me and everyone else here that you are unable to refute the quote from Scotland’s Claim of Right, a Scottish legal document that clearly demonstrates the existence of Scotland’s constitution, and that it declared Scotland to be a ‘legal limited monarchy’. Only a constitution can limit a monarch, and it was used to sack a King and his parliament! That means it had real legal power, and that it and its power were accessible to others than the monarch and parliament. King James VII was not the only Scottish monarch to feel the crack of its whip.
@geri
“Resulting in the frenzy that seen an MP murdered.”
The most recent murder of an MP was carried out by an asylum seeker who was represented in court by a KC who specialises in defending members of grooming gangs and trying to stop their assets of crime, including pimping, from being seized.
Xaracen,
face the fact. There isn’t a Scottish constitution.
Alf Baird,
Scotland, and Scots as individuals, is arguably the most colonising nation in human history. Even Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great didn’t colonize as effectively as the Scots have post 1707. You are entirely on the wrong side if the debate.
Baird
You seem to think that you are the font of all knowledge when all you ever do is quote some dross from some obscure discredited individuals. It is the same crap constantly, very little of your own ‘work’, always copied from others. You could be accused of plagiarism!
At least in your latest drivel you refrained from using some guid Scots words in a pathetic attempt to show you are a ‘man of the people’. All that ever does is make you look daft. Something that you manage to easily achieve every day.
Why do you and your fellow nutters always want to live in the past?
Xaracen says:
12 July, 2023 at 5:10 pm
From your analysis, there is therefore no English or UK constitution either. Damnably clever, that, dasBlimp!
=====
I never offered an analysis and neither did I say there was a constitution for either. Bit thick there, xaracen.
A Scot Abroad said;
“Xaracen, face the fact. There isn’t a Scottish constitution.”
The fact would have to be true to be faced. It isn’t, and you know it, and it must give you sleepless nights to know that more and more Scots are realising just how outrageously Westminster’s English establishment has been lying to them about these matters. The Union is no longer sustainable because its roots were rotten to begin with, and the entire edifice can no longer be held up.
England’s bane has woken, and its doom is near at hand. 😀
Xaracen,
there isn’t a Scottish constitution. Why you should choose to lie about that is beyond me, but there isn’t one.
@Alf Baird says:12 July, 2023 at 6:57 pm
So it’s racist and colonialist to point out when people are being eejits now?
Have to say, Alf, I really thought you were better than that.
You must have noticed that plenty of posters on here accuse me of all sorts of things, with being an eejit probably the least objectionable of the insults.
Why is it I have never seen you taking any of them to task for being racist and colonialist?
Xaracen says:
12 July, 2023 at 9:22 pm
… more and more Scots are realising just how outrageously Westminster’s English establishment has been lying to them about these matters. The Union is no longer sustainable because its roots were rotten to begin with, and the entire edifice can no longer be held up.
England’s bane has woken, and its doom is near at hand. ?
=====
Do you do the voiceovers for Science fantasy trailers, xaracen. Mwah ha ha ha …
Back to the point – the only way for the SNP to be part of a new government is with the Greens and the Dim Lesbs. They don’t care who they bed with.
Neither of the other 2 parties would dirty their hands in an alliance with the goons that have wreaked such havoc economically, educationally and health wise as has been seen over the last 8 years. The electorate should flush the SNP down the pan with several gallons of high strength bleach to follow.
ASA
***there isn’t a Scottish constitution***
Then please enlighten the group to why King Chucky just gave an oath to Scotland? What oath & where did he magic it up from?
As for yer **Scots were colonisers** pish, Scotland was in A UNION that exploited countries. Scotland has also officially given an apology to those countries for it’s role through the Scottish parliament.
Meanwhile, down at coloniser central..
It’s completely anathema to the English colonisers to apologise – who have eejits tell the Caribbean they can go fuck themselves, the Greeks to go fuck themselves over returning their priceless artifacts, & their Royal family telling them to go fuck themselves for restitutions.
& They have the audacity to say their Royal visits weren’t exactly a success LMAO!! & Take umbridge they don’t want that colonising racist shit as their head of state if they don’t even have the good grace to apologise.
Do you see the glaring problem you have here & the hugely different approach for our past sins?
Something you should remember next time you spout shite about Scots colonising the world.
& Alf is correct, the colonisers sense of its own self importance, it’s racism & it’s constant need to belittle is exactly the cards you all play in real life & on here. Complete, blinkered denial .
The nonsense Scotland doesn’t have a written constitution is another idiot lie – we’ve just had a king uphold it ffs!
Lookyooboybach has been disgraced by the BBC, even by BBC Scotland.
No knighthood for him. I think.
Typical coward.
Go into hiding & send out the wife claiming he’s ill. I’ll bet!!
I’d my suspicions it was him by the gray hair.
What makes men so stupid at times to think this would ever remain a secret? Especially given someone with such a high profile as he had talking shite at Royal events & weddings etc – it’s ripe for blackmail. What a dunce.
Geri,
there isn’t a Scots constitution. No matter how many angry posts you make. There isn’t a Scots constitution.
Now, grow up.
A Scot Abroad says:
13 July, 2023 at 5:14 am
Geri,
there isn’t a Scots constitution. No matter how many angry posts you make. There isn’t a Scots constitution.
Now, grow up.
—————
The UK along with New Zealand and Israel are the only three countries in the world to have an uncodified or ‘unwritten’ constitution.So they just make it up as they go along.
Now, grow up and get aff yer knee’s hoose jock fae somewhere.
BIG NOTE- UK not being a country as such but a union between two kingdoms which is where the debate is. We all know Scotland represents itself in everything independently apart FOR when Scotland, England, Wales and NI go to the Olympics’ or get involved in stupid wars!
ASA, you are an idiot! If Scotland’s own legal documents, especially a major one like the Claim of Right, refer directly to Scotland’s constitution, then that puts its existence beyond any rational doubt, and certainly beyond legal doubt. The only potential argument, post 1707, is if the Treaty of Union abolished it in favour of England’s for the new United Kingdom.
Unfortunately for you, it did not. There is literally nothing in the Treaty that mandated that abolition, and in fact it is the only constitution that is preserved in the Treaty, because the codicil appended nominally to Article 25 of the Treaty by the Scottish parliament, and to be treated as part of the Treaty and ratified along with it, obliges the permanence of Scotland’s constitution as cited in the Claim of Right.
The UK’s Parliament has never had the lawful authority to set aside Scotland’s constitution and replace it with England’s. That it did so anyway is as serious a breach of the Treaty is it can get. A reckoning is coming, and it’s gathering pace!
Xaracen,
there isn’t a Scottish constitition. The Claim of Right isn’t anything justiciable. It’s just a rallying call for nationalists. It’s not a legal right.
Xaracen says:
13 July, 2023 at 8:25 am
especially a major one like the Claim of Right,
——————
Claim of right is a political statement, The same legal standing as the iron lady saying we are have ref2 this year.
Go and try it in court.
I expect that the chat will decrease tomorrow.
The Proms are starting.
What is being argued here is that the articles in that old guff treaty are meaningless, that two Countries did not make a union,
1….That the union absorbed Scotland, but not England,
2….That Scotland once that union took place had no rights,
3…. no retained laws,
4…..no identified religion,
5…..no Parliament,
6…..no separate law or judicial system system,
7…..no Scotland border,
8….it left England with a unwritten uncodified constitution,
9……The union left Scotland with no constitution.
10….It left Scotland unable to pass laws in Scotland, England, Wales or Ireland,
But England able to pass laws into Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland.
11…..It left the old parliament in England as a continious parliament of GB in the same Westminster building.
12….It left the same members of the old english parliament in the new GB parliament without elections taking place,
13….. Westminster in England Dissolved the Scottish parliament in England.
14…..therefore Scotland did not have the right to choose or elect members from the Scottish parliament to enter Westminster parliament,
15…..Englands same parliament of Westminster makes all the laws for the other three nations within the Isles of Britain,
16…..The Union sacked Scotlands monarch to replace it with a English chosen one under blackmail,
17…..The Westminster parliament in England considers it has the sole ownership of the treaty of union and alters and repeals articles of the union on its own.
18……Englands Westminster parliament members held Colonial Stock in Scotland whilst under the treaty of union.
19….Westminster parliament in England passed legislation to send a colonial sub government to Scotland for limited use to and management of Scotland and Scots.
20…. the Bank of England remained the Bank of England and Wales only after the union with Scotland.
21….Scotlands financial currancy was abolished and Englands mint continued.
Some union of voluntary partnership,
Never mind, Englands Westminster parliament that thought it was the sole entrant to the union,
Chucked the Scottish parliament out the treaty of union in 1707.
Thats what arrogance does….
Cuts its own nose off to spite its face.
19…..
There is no Scottish constitution under the heading of UK government.
Because there is no parliamentary union as Westminster took it upon itself to dissolve and extinguish The Scottish parliament from the treaty of union in 1707.
There has been no Scottish parliamentary members in The Westminster parliament ever, which would indicate a political union of parliaments.
Englands old Westminster parliament members were transferred by Queen Anne proclamation into the Self proclaimed GB parliament without elections until 1708 under the Triennial Act of the old English parliament.
The parliament of England never ceased and has continued without dissolving to create a new union without Scotlands parliament.
19… alone would breach the treaty of union if Scotland had not been extinguished from the union by Westminster parliament in 1707.
A Scot Abroad.
There is no “UK constitution” due to Westminster parliament and Queen Anne dissolving and extinguishing, thus releasing the old Scottish parliament from its obligations of a treaty of union in 1707.
Just a English and Wales uncodified constitution.
There is no United kingdom.
After chucking dissolving and eliminating the old Scottish parliament from the treaty of union in 1707 that left just England and Wales,
I do not believe that Wales was a kingdom in 1707, so no united kingdoms.
It left Englands under the English parliament Triennial Act kissing and licking its own Ar…..
It is a very interesting position of those Scots down on their knees doffing their caps to Englands old Westminster parliament.
The predicament they are in insists there was a union that took place and still exists that is why Scotland has no Constitution in their eyes,
And yet that same attitude call the treaty of union so old that its not worth mentioning,
I love it when when they are confusing themselves and then do not research digital historical records from both parliaments.
It must be a nightmare in their waking hour trying to conflate their two positions just on a belief system of wanting to be subservient to a a UK
A UK that does not exist after 1707.
Scotland has its own constitution because the Scottish parliament was dispersed with and dissolved from obligations by Westminster.
After Westminster extinguished the Scottish parliament from the treaty of union, but thought it could still nick, pinch and Use Scotlands domestic Acts to make a new self proclaimed kingdom,
Englands parliament made no due diligence that in Scotland thereafter Scots could not open a totally new parliament of their own in Scotland under the constitution of Scotland and Scots law,
Thats what arrogance does, it makes many mistakes in its selfleshness.
Get up of yer knees.
The Claim of Right was passed in and under Scots law prior to the fallacious treaty of the union.
It does not become English law just because England recognises the Claim of Right.
It will remains Scots law even Without Westminster,
It is very sad to see Scots on their knees, notn having nor holding no self confidence or value of their own laws and constitution.
Thinking in the terms of a English Westminster parliament.
Get up of yer knees.
The other anomaly is that Scotland after declaring that King james was not its king, left Scotland without a king at all.
The Scots are indeed Sovereign that is well documented.
Even Englands Westminster parliament recognised that in the Scots Claim of right, as recently as 2018.
Sovereign over king and a Scottish parliament.
Sovereign Scots without a king present or not, were not asked to join in the treaty of union, in 1706/1707 it was decided by politicians, the monarch of England and commissioners not to give the sovereign Scots a vote to join the treaty of union,
The out come of all these documented events is Scots & Scotland is free from the treaty long ago.
James Che,
you are mental, serially repetitive, and utterly wrong in your “analysis”.
ASA
And you need to get up of your knees and learn history.
James Che,
I know all of the history I will ever need to know, and you and your type are nothing more than a minor footnote.
If any individual posts 8 times, one after the other, I can only conclude that said individual clearly has some mental issues.
Especially, without even reading any of them, you know that they basically all say the same repetitive tripe.
77th Brigade March (Royal House Jocks)
Tobias Ellwood, … has only got one ball,
Chas’ s wit … is very, very, small,
Orde Wingate’s pal, … ASA
Badly paper-cut in Basra,
And poor old Blimpy, cannot troll at all.
CHORUS
John Main is off his f’n head
John Main is off his f’n meds
Sozzy, sozzy-sozzy
Some sarcastic unintelligible gibberish to end.
I’m bored
A Scot Abroad says:
13 July, 2023 at 10:03 am
Xaracen,
there isn’t a Scottish constitition. The Claim of Right isn’t anything justiciable. It’s just a rallying call for nationalists. It’s not a legal right.
highlander says:
13 July, 2023 at 10:47 am
Xaracen says:
13 July, 2023 at 8:25 am
especially a major one like the Claim of Right,
——————
Claim of right is a political statement, The same legal standing as the iron lady saying we are have ref2 this year.
Go and try it in court.
———–
Can someone post the link to COR that has already been accepted by Westmonster to shut this pair up please.
The Claim of Right is still on Scotland’s statute books, as is Scotland’s supporting Act of 1703 that makes it treasonable to diminish in any way the rights of the sovereign Scots.
The UK Parliament’s exercise of authority over Scotland is limited to what was agreed in the Treaty, and replacing Scotland’s constitution with England’s wasn’t in it. In addition, the UKP didn’t inherit the EP’s ‘unlimited sovereignty’ because that wasn’t agreed either, and the English Parliament ceased to exist exactly as the Scottish one did, because the new GB Parliament replaced both of them! That was the whole point of the Treaty.
The renaming of the English Parliament to the GB Parliament formally signalled that the new Parliament was now live, and under the terms of the Treaty, it only holds those powers the Treaty allowed it to have, and no more. If England’s commissioners wanted the new parliament to possess the same level of sovereignty the English one did, they should have said so and got the formal agreement of the Scots commissioners and the Scottish Parliament. They never even made the attempt, so UKP can piss off with its claims of both continuity with, and the unlimited sovereignty of, the old English parliament, along with its false assertion that England’s ‘sovereignty’ now stretched over Scotland, too.
Of the two constitutions, only the Scottish one is preserved by the Treaty, the English one isn’t mentioned at all.
The claims you two frauds make are never going to gain traction until you can substantiate them, and neither of you have the evidentiary basis to do that, because it doesn’t exist, and neither of you have the integrity to admit it.
Oops, my post at 09:31 am is directed at A Scot Abroad and highlander.
Xaracen,
there isn’t a Scottish constitution. The Claim of Right doesn’t exist in legal terms.
No court in the world is going to hear your case.
A Scot Abroad @ 10:38 am
“there isn’t a Scottish constitution”
You still trying to eradicate Scottish history and national identity?
Scots and English versions: https://salvo.scot/scottish-constitution/
Alf Baird,
there isn’t a Scottish constitution. You linking to a website run by nutters who written some text isn’t a constitution.
Now, fuck off.
The individual is sovereign.
The rest of you are talking pish.
Geddit?
There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognise the individual as a higher and independent sovereign power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats that individual accordingly.