Wings Over Scotland

Nice one Chris

She doesn’t look well at all.

I imagine it would be a huge relief to Teresa May to have the power removed.

She has alot to reflect on, the lives lost and ruined.

Laughed so much I has a coughing fit.

They couldn’t make a bigger mess. Just appalling. Every which way. Dragging down the Scottish (UK) economy so they can break the Law and tax evade. They haven’t got a clue.

Ghillie 7.48am. Ghillie tories dont do reflections, they dont have souls.

It would appear that The BBC intends to drown out any coverage of The SNP Conference with the rantings of our un-beloved not so diminutive Col. Davidson.

brexit is falling apart and Mrs May is falling apart.

The US have imposed further tariffs on Bombardier, the US was and is the tories big hope for brexit.

Anything Mrs May touches turns to dust, long may she be in post.

The First Minister must say no to the tory power grab and put the case to the Scottish Parliament to reject

Pile the pressure on the uk, take a leaf out of Catalonia book on independence, defiance works!

Catalonia…..
….
..
….HOLD…

And while the US piles on justified anti-sunsisy tarifs, our ruling party’s ‘best chums’ rub their hands with glee.

But the hook was meant to be ‘Strong & Stable’ 🙂

If Davidson ever did become a contender for PM the UK media would turn the spotlight on her, she’d be shown up for what she is, and everyone in London would say:

“Why did we think she was so good?”

And the answer will be, because it is what BBC Scotland told you.

I am a card carrying member of the SNP, i have never voted for a London government in my life, and i was born 65 years ago
I want out of the european union as its called, but we all know its just a larger political union and has been for years, in its present form it does not work, its undemocratic as its run by a few imbeciles who the people have never elected to the offices they hold, and now these same people think they can dictate to all member states and threaten them if they don’t go along with their orders, remember these people where not elected by us, we had no say about them, you can elect your MP, but you cannot stop these people from ruling you, they are put into power by their own kind to keep them all on the gravy train and keep the rest of us down, lets get rid of them and start again and get back to a common market without political powers, remember a union is supposed to be about equality for every member, no union will survive when most of its members are dictated to by the few, even the russians came to learn that valuable lesson, and russia is better for it

It’s a Rd white and blue shootgly peg
And Shoogly peg means Shoogly peg.

What more could anyone else need to know???

mike d says:
7 October, 2017 at 8:22 am
Ghillie 7.48am. Ghillie tories dont do reflections, they dont have souls.

Like vampires you mean? Bloodsuckers. Good thought , mike d!
I’ve got the image now from Polanski’s Dance of the Vampires. A hall of mirrors empty of substance.

The perfect metaphor for Tory policy and the neoliberal experiment.

Simon Curran says:

BBC currently giving lots of airtime to Ruth in defence of May, making it out though without being explicitl that it’s just sexism and these men can’t cope with strong woman.

Have you noticed that any story on BBC about the Col no comments are allowed I bet there will be plenty on the SNP this weekend with the FM being slagged off by the Unionst brigade.

Och, the wumin is dae’n a grand job of steering us to IndyRef2!

Can anyone doubt that the Tories will, one way or another, play a significant part in Scotland achieving independence?

Seriously, it’s a hard choice. Do I want all the Brexit nonsense to just stop, or do I want a chaotic car crash which will invoke IndyRef2?

What I definitely don’t want is a general election, a Corbyn government, a soft staying in single market Brexit, and no prospect of Scottish Independence for many years! That, is the worst of all worlds.

@David Caledonia
Agreed

It’s never going to happen, but can you imagine Field Marshall Davidson being in charge of Brexit negotiations? It might make me a bad person, but I’d pay to see that.

The UK Government is more of a comedy show than Yes Minister. I mean that literally. If the script writers came up with a sketch where PM Jim Hacker was speechless through a coughing fit, had a comedian hand him a P45 on live TV, and have his fuzzy felt slogan fall to bits, they’d have written it out as too slapstick.

There is one helluva “through the looking glass” jinx affecting the UK at the moment, and unfortunately I include Scotland in that. We have the tail of democracy wagging the dog of sovereignty, everybody wants to look the other way, and our pro Independence Government is apparently unwilling to promote our Independence Escape Pod until after the Brexit meteor strikes, but says “don’t worry! It’s all under control”…as the rabbits, foxes, squirrels, and deer all run past me…

Is it me? Am I the one out of sync? Because what I see is Brexit, a monumental catastrophe and act of reckless economic, political and cultural self harm, having provided Scotland with the Democratic opportunity to say NO. For once we actually got it right, together, and actually said NO, emphatically, and gave ourselves CLEAR DIVISION from the rest of the UK,- we gave ourselves the premiere quality, cast iron mandate and justification to pit the Sovereign powered, democratically expressed, emphatic will of Scotland against the diametrically opposed, undemocratic, un-mandated, act of unparalleled reckless, bigoted, chaotic, stupidity ever devised by Westminster. And this? This is the time we choose to back pedal and downplay Independence??? I’m sorry. You’ve really, really lost me. Me no understandy.

If I had the money, training, or knowledge of protocol to do it myself, I would petition both the UN and the European Court of Justice as a single citizen, and ask them to make a ruling on whether Scotland’s inalienable Sovereignty is worth the UNESCO Memory of the World parchment it’s written on.

I dare say I probably should canvas the whole country for their advice on whether I should or I shouldn’t do it, but then again, what would be the point? A democratic yay or nay would not have any bearing on the technical legal legitimacy or otherwise of Scottish Sovereignty. I would merely be clarifying a matter of record, not changing a thing. A bit like checking Scotland’s birth certificate.

See I believe in a legal constitutional contest between one singular momentary enactment of Sovereignty, and the democratic votes of a million people, democracy makes the most noise but it is Sovereignty which wins as the top trump, and commands the binding legitimacy and secures recognition. It hurts to say it, but I believe that’s perhaps the one last issue both Spain and Catalonia might currently agree upon.

Scotland HAS the power to throw the kill switch on Brexit, and don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.

Just for curiosity, it might be an enlightening revelation at the SNP conference to have Europhiles stand on one side of the hall, and EFTA Brexiteers stand on the other side. In my naivety, it might explain a few things.

It appears to myself that the promotion of Ruth Davidsons defence of the PM in all the media has a side-effect of Davidson also saying “just in-case May does quit, I’m standing here waiting to take over”, i.e. LOOK AT ME

Think you need to go back a thread @David Caledonia says at 9:07 am and @Street Andrew says at 9:49 am.

link to wingsoverscotland.com

“They appear to have realised that the only policy of an independence movement should be independence, and everything else is the business of normal politics once that goal is achieved.”

It doesn’t matter if you are Pro EU or Anti at the moment as these are just the “squabbling factions” Stu describes.

Indy first.

England’s Electorate will always decide what the decision will be for you while we are in the UK Union.

I assume that’s what you mean when you say you’ve “never voted for a London government in my life” David, you’ve got the Govt. that England votes for?

What do you get if you cross Nigel Farage with 65 years of BBC Europhobic Propaganda?

Answers on a postcard to the David Caledonia competition.

Class Chris. Just class.

Colonel Ruth just needs to be made a Lordette and that’s it, she’s the next Prime Minister of teamGB.

Colonel Ruth’s a BBC Scotland propaganda production too, so that crew of spivs and con artists will be thrilled to UKOK bits.

Has it really been less than a year, since Donaldo won back trust?

link to thenational.scot

Whether the EU is good for Scotland or no can only be decided by the Scots after independence, don’t get involved meantime with English xenophobia. Wan thing at a time!

If Boris is the next PM, Davidson is toast! so don’t knock Boris too much! 🙂

Haven’t seen or heard anything from Arlene in support/defence of THeresa May.

Empty bottles make the most noise and I suspect (t)Ruthless is trying her best to get noticed by the PM and gain some extra brownie points, after all her success in Scotland helped the Tories snatch defeat from the jaws of victory at the recent GE.

Of course Col. Harrison would have to give up her honorary title as head of her battalion since as MP/PM she most definitely could not wear two hats at once – not even on a head her size!

Great cartoon Chris – as ever you catch the essence perfectly.

Noticed this on the BBC N.Ireland website – apparently the Red Hand lot have asked to be taken off the Home Office list of proscribed ‘terror’ organisations and will find out within 90 days if they have been successful. If so, other loyalist organisations may also apply.
Wonder if this was part of Arlene’s dirty deal?

link to bbc.co.uk

@David Caledonia

The EU is not undemocratic at all. The main decision making bodies are the Council of Ministers, which is made up of government ministers from all the EU countries, and the EU Parliament which is directly elected by all EU citizens.

The body that gets the most flak from our lovely fascist press is the EU Commission, however it is only the civil service of the EU, its job being to implement decisions of the Council and Parliament. The commissioners are appointed by the various governments, and are out in the open for all to see, unlike the top UK civil servants, who are a shady bunch that nobody knows much about, but who wield enormous power.

Ok, it’s not perfect, but I think it’s unarguable that it’s been a power for good in Europe.

She’s got a deck of cards in her other hand ready for shuffling.

Maybe there’s a joker waiting to be played

Sack Boris Johnson and reshuffle cabinet, senior Tories to tell May
link to archive.is

Just listening to beeb r4 tory creeps bashing on and on about more bankster pull outs from Barcelona. They’re quite a slutty bunch, banksters.

Not beeb gimp network news though, RBS will still be Project Fearing Scotland, from er, its Amsterdam HQ, via Pacific Quay gimps, in Glasgow.

link to youtube.com

Nice cartoon, Chris.

——————————————————-

Just had a read through of the SNP’s conference agenda. Word searched it for “independence”. Not on the main agenda.

Did the same for sovereign. It gets a mention in the relevant context for a fringe meeting ( as does independence outside the EU):

” will Scotland be better able
to tackle them as a sovereign nation or as
part of the historic union?

• Mark Littlewood, Director General IEA
• George Kerevan, Journalist and
Commentator, former SNP MP
• Pete Wishart MP, SNP Westminster
Constitution Spokesperson”

Eh? We are already a sovereign nation even as part of the UK – even if the UK Govt and SNP Scot Govt don’t want to recognise that and respect that.

Breeks, you’re needed, my friend.

—————————————————–

The Agenda was entirely predictable, safe and the usual wishy-washy, Tories bad, we are wonderful WM devolutionists.
—————————————————-

The highlight of my read through the SNP conference agenda. Exhibitors include: The BBC.

Talk about the BBC having a brass neck. Titanium or chromium more like.

So much for the SNP standing up to the BBC.

This is the best I’ve felt about the SNP for a couple of years.
The SNP are bloody funny, in a Theresa May sort of way.

YouGov polling showed that … 15% thought [May’s speech] went “well”.

Was that their cadaver branch?

Just a question of when she goes. If she cared about anyone but herself she would resign. The Tory chaos rambles on.

Does Carrel think 50% of people in Scotland who support Independence should be ignore. Certainly not a diplomat.

Voters not going out to vote. Someone else will do it for them. ‘The little red hen’. Could not be bothered to put a cross on a piece of paper. Giving the unionists plenty of ammunition. They know who they are. A lesson learnt. Letting the Tories in in Scotland keeping the Tories in power lingering on at Westminster. Destroying the Scottish economy. Only the good work of the SNP keeps at the helm. The good governance steering to a safe haven.

No one on the 1922 committee would give Ruthie babe the time of day.

Stalking horse anyone?

Sure the BBC will receive some forthright views and opinions at the SNP Conference. They claim they enjoy feedback. The journalists to be found huddled in some corner in case they have to justify. account or apologise for their lies. They don’t like interacting with the public who they despise. Multimillionaire tax evaders fleecing the public. Breaking regulations by the minute. In deed at some Conferences they need body guards. The non impartial BBC. £3.7Billion for nonsense.

The BBC is at the SNP Conference to broadcast on BBC2/Parliamentary Channel. They are legally bound to show it. Uplofting it will be. Especially for those attending. Packed out and excelerating especially for those attending. A brilliant time for Independistas. People come from far and wide. Abroad. The SNP have support worldwide.

Valerie says:
7 October, 2017 at 11:27 am
I don’t understand this Ruth adulation from the South either, but they haven’t had the bellyful of brittle, false hypocrisy out on tank manoeuvres that we have had.

They love the loyal jock thing. It goes all the way back too, British Empire reign of fascist terror, Scottish soldiery was their Empire jack boot sadly.

Its why there used to be so many Scottish regiments. And its probably why Gordon Brown closed them all down, no longer serving the UKOK purpose in Scotland. A nascent state like his Scotland region, with a very deep historic military heritage is not exactly helpful when youre desperately trying to close it all down.

Will Laura Keunsberg get BBC bodyguards for SNP conference?

Its probably being discussed by assorted beeb gimps right the now, if only because it is a terrific smear, for tory attack propaganda like the beeb. Laura certainly didn’t need beeb bodyguards from the tories. I think I’d burst out laughing if I saw any beeb gimp in the flesh.

That steel armour wall surrounding the tory conference in Manchester was really impressive too.

Anyone seen this ?

Put in your own phrase and watch it fall off the wall behind Theresa…!!

link to thebritishdrea.com

*Murdo* why does my Kindle default to a disgusting, wrinkly right wing billionaire???

Arrgghhh

Heedtracker says:
7 October, 2017 at 11:40 am
Valerie says:
7 October, 2017 at 11:27 am
I don’t understand this Ruth adulation from the South either, but they haven’t had the bellyful of brittle, false hypocrisy out on tank manoeuvres that we have had.

The English electorate also bought what Farage was selling. Perhaps it’s a character weakness, or maybe a servile Scottish sycophant flatters their faith that all is well with the Union.

Remember Ruth Davidson stood on National TV and called Brexit and the Brexiteers in her party liars
Now she claims it’s good for the country, which country would that be, not ours! and it also shows Ruth Davidson as an even bigger liar than her party because at least the Brexiteer liars are defending their position whereas Ruth Davidson only defends the position she’s told to defend

Goldilocks Independence and the “I’m no votin fur it if it’s no perfect” group of people

Independence first, then you can heat it up if it’s too cold, or cool it down if it’s too hot but at least you’ll have it to enable you to do that coz you’ve not got a plate of Independence at all at the moment never mind a spoon to stir it with

Great image once again Chris.

Enjoying the comments all! The Tory, red Tory UKOK is such a mess, I dread to think what would be happening in Scotland if the Britnats were in charge right now. Well, I guess we all know.

UntRuth just takes the biscuit, what an embarrassment. Looks like the Brutish Bullying Corp are continuing their propaganda story and giving untRuth all the attention to distract from the fact we have an SNP government in Scotland, not a Tory one!

Who gained most seats in June’s GE in Scotland. Oh yeh, it was Labour, oh wait, it was the tories, says the fascist media.

SNP, who are they.

@ Valerie – ta for the ThirdForceNews poll info Should Neil Oliver have been appointed NTS President”
Vote early, vote often.
link to bit.ly

Good cartoon. Sadly, Mrs May won’t be dithering for much longer.

The Tories should be renamed The Shoogly Peg Party!

My only cavil to another fine political cartoon is you don’t bring out May’s nastiness enough. She’s deplorable but we know those lining up to take her place are worse.

Your weekend reading:

Putting the ‘ass’ back in compassion: link to wp.me
‘Blade Runner sequel’ – take a camp bed: link to wp.me

MayBots peg even mair shoogly noo??

link to archive.is

“Germany and France will reportedly refuse to talk about a post-Brexit transition deal until the UK settles its so-called divorce bill with the European Union.”

“The two countries are set to reject one of the key proposals made by Theresa May in her Florence Speech, according to reports in the Financial Times.”

Listening to Any Questions on R4.

Audience just laughed out loud when Andrea Leadsom defends Treesa by saying: ‘ we are incredibly lucky to have her as a PM’… cue loud laughter….

Looking at BBC reporting of Catalonia and Brexit I just get the feeling that long after England is out of the EU the BBC will be plaintively making noises about the EU, but who will care, who will listen?

As the pressure on the UK Government approaches intolerable, we can expect to see a mushroom cloud of Downing St Press Office generated fake news, bare-faced lies, and every dirty trick in the British Governments handbook of Imperial and Colonial treachery.

The clocks are ticking. One of them is the British Brexit time-bomb.

@Clydebult
Goes back to the fact that if Spain are so certain there is a majority against Indy, then let them vote in a ‘legitimate’ referendum.
Of course BBC London in Scotland wouldn’t report anything that flies in the face of the establishment

” Breeks @12pm, I don’t understand this Ruth adulation from south south” .This looks like a ruse by the state propandists to ” big her up” on a UK wide basis to hoodwink the Scottish electorate into ” accepting her” as a ” shoo-in” as First Minister at the next Holyrood election”. The narrative being that she is ” in the frame” to be UK Tory leader, and when she ” misses out” then she should be “given “the ” consolation prize” of FM.
Of course she has absolutely zero chance of being Tory leader outwith their ” Scotland fiefdom”, as she is not from the public school background ” Oxbridge landed gentry stock” or has the necessary ” corporate big business background / city of London connections” .In fact she is nowhere near the ” class required” to be on a European or world stage.
In actual fact we have our own genuine European class leader in our own First Minister, who is ” head& shoulders ” above both May & Davidson ( and shows it every day in the Holyrood chamber), and the rest of the ” branch office managers”. Wouldn’t they just love to have her as leader of a London run unionist party. There is only one ” champions league” politician in Scotland and that is Nicola Sturgeon. ( and that is why the unionist state propagandists at Pacific Quay and English controlled ” Scottish press” attack her incessantly.).
Ruth Davidson couldn’t ” lace her boots” and she knows it . If you can’t compete Ruth then yes perhaps you should go down a league ” south of the border, to play .

“Whooopty duh, but what does it all mean Basil?!” – Austin Powers 🙂

Of Cigarettes, High Heels, and Other Interesting Things: An Introduction to Semiotics
Why is it that certain members of the human species routinely put their survival at risk by smoking cigarettes? Why is it that some females make walking a struggle for themselves by donning high heel footwear? This book attempts to answer such questions. Such risky behaviors are obviously shaped by forces other than the instincts. Indeed, for no manifest genetic reason, humanity is constantly searching for a purpose to its existence; this search has led it to invent myths, art, rituals, languages, mathematics, science, and other truly remarkable things that set it apart from all other species.

In this volume author Marcello Danesi shows us that the discipline that endeavors to understand the human meaning quest is known as semiotics. Danesi demonstrates how semiotics unravels the meanings of signs that make up the system of everyday life that we call a culture or a society. This book will engender in the reader the same kind of questioning and inquisitive frame of mind with which a semiotician approaches the subject matter of meaning. Basic semiotic ideas and analytical techniques are introduced via a seemingly fictional yet very telling scene, one which reveals a lot about the human need for meaning. The scene is a fashionable modern-day restaurant, and the fictional actions that occur allow Danesi to provide the semiotic version of the human drama in concrete terms. As Danesi argues, perhaps the greatest skill possessed by Homo Sapiens, literally the knowing animal, is the ability to know itself. This book reveals how semiotics helps to sharpen that ability considerably.

link to books.google.co.uk

Robert J Sutherland

I prefer to believe that Carrell has misrepresented Blackford.

The implications of believing otherwise are really appalling. I am not going there pending further evidence. Carrell is not a trustworthy source.

For our casual readers, there is an easy way to spot one type of troll. They start out by assuring you that they have been a member of the SNP for years and years, then proceed to spout all sorts of characteristic twisted UKIP dross. (Usually involving hating foreigners in some form or another.)

The idea presumably is to convince you that yer typical SNP/indy supporter is the kind of unwashed right wing moron beloved of BritLab fiction.

Well, every movement has its share of idiots and chancers, I guess, but the SNP and the yes movement at large are not copycat Scottish versions of the Kippers. Not even close.

the latest poll results for the SNP send a signal….Be Bold Nicola!

Ian Brotherhood
I know a lot of the stuff I post is ‘out of orbit’ Ian but I see your role as a translator of ideas into practice. Does that make any sense and hopefully not sound too pretensions?

I would agree with Craig and Jock

Severin is as partisan as Farqhuerson or Martin. The article is an exercise in disinformation and the picture of Nicola coughing is, given what happened to May, just bizarre. It isn’t even a high resolution picture. They have had to trawl the net to find something they can shoe horn in rather a relevant picture of a previous SNP conference.

This is propaganda not news.

Shoogling with Murdoch

link to zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk

Robert J. Sutherland at 3.13

Sevvy was never a proper journalist. He previously wrote for the Scotsman.
He still owes me £15 for the cheque he bounced on me for staying at my hotel when he came down to something about Polaris debris in the Holy Loch and why the Loch was needing cleaned. I sent the bounced cheque to the Scotsman and they kindly sent it back to me.
I still have it.

Dave McEwan Hill @ 16:29,

The Scotsman used to be a half-decent paper once, didn’t it? =grin=

Pity I didn’t know that story before. At one of the recent-ish electoral counts he happened to arrive in the refreshment queue right after me, and I had to resist a strong temptation to make some cutting remark about his various misrepresentations, but had I known your tale at the time I fear I would have been unable to resist asking him in a very loud voice when he intended to pay DMH’s long-overdue hotel bill! =laugh=

Ach, but maybe as a poor journalist he was living off food banks at the time. All the fault of the SNP, of course. As we know.

Robert J Sutherland @ 3.13

Agree with you. When I read the piece it was almost a ‘painting by numbers’ bit of journalistic hackery. Number 1 – mention losses at GE. Number 2 – mention apparent division, illustrate with quote, real or imagined. Number 3 mention husband of NS etc etc.

Job done and piece becomes click bait central – last time I looked there were over 2,000 responses.

My gut feeling is after a dead cat bounce Ruth Davidson as potential PM would be great news for Scottish independence. She is liked down south, loyal to the cause, photo opportunistic, is relatively young, has made a good impression on HIGNFY.
However once the spotlight is on her a lot of things would be exposed by an English media in contrast to the easy ride she gets from a compliant Scots media. If the English media exposed her for what she is, then that would discredit her and the Scots Tories who have promoted the cult of their glorious leader.

No way does TRuthless want to be in power as the PM at the very point where Scotland is going to be shafted royally by Brexit.

Don’t forget she even said recently if there was another ref on Brexit she would support Remain.

No way the tories could retain their deal with Arlene and co if tRuthless is in power.

It must have been difficult to vote for an SNP candidate consistently over the last 65 years. During that time there were more than often no candidates standing for which to vote. Unionist propaganda and total subsidy lies. M15 and the Official Secrets Act saw to that.

Memory lapse?

Heedtracker
I love your style and I’m probably the last you would expect to haul anyone up for their form of expression, BUT. Sorry to get all PC but I think “Orange Hitler” is perhaps a bit crass and insensitive to history.

Gonnae no do that? 😉

May and Trump both will be gone within two years. Other multimillionaires will have their hand in the till. Enough is never enough for these greedy low life’s. They have troughed on public money for years.

O/T I don’t know if Wingers have seen this letter from a victim to a Spanish policeman who engaged in violence last week and to the King of Spain

link to eurofree3.wordpress.com

@ScottieDog says: 7 October, 2017 at 9:55 am:

@David Caledonia
Agreed.”

Dear God! How many loonies are there on Wings?

That rant by David Caledonia is the biggest load of total pish posted to Wings in years. There isn’t a word of truth in the entire diatribe.

Whether motivated by ignorance or mendacity is neither here nor there. Pish is pish and that was total pish.

The truth is that the EU is a 100% democratically elected Parliament, That it also gives every member state a turn at holding the EU Presidency and every member state has a veto on all EU Parliamentary decisions. You cannot get more democratic than that,

Furthermore David not only claims these people are unelected but that they force EU decisions upon member states and citizens.

First of all the Non-elected people are NOT EU members they are EU employees – that is why they call then Commissioners – they get paid as employees.

As to the use of force – The Westminster lie machine, while claiming that the EU forces member states to use the Euro fails to mention that the UK, a founder member, and eight other member states DO NOT USE THE EURO because the EU cannot force them to do so.

There are also several non-EU states that use the Euro with the EU’s permission and several that do so without the EU’s permission. Quite simply the EU works by consensus and not by force.

No wonder Scotland cannot get her independence when there are so many bloody fools with totally idiotic beliefs.

Robert Peffers @18:17

Seconded.

@TheWasp

see here

link to twitter.com

What do we make of this?

ScotParl voting intention (list):

SNP: 35% (-7)
LAB: 24% (+5)
CON: 23% (-)
GRN: 6% (-1)
LDEM: 6% (+1)

link to mobile.twitter.com

The shoogly peg…

What was her hook held up with before it came ‘aff the wa’?

Sticky-back-plastic per chance?

Nae holes, she was never pegged to the board in the first place.

I. N. D. E. P. E. N. D. E. N. C. E.

I see it is the usual Pravda crap from the BBC. The other parties get sole focus for their conferences but Marr has Davidson and Torrance on to counterbalance the SNP conference coverage. Did he have Corbyn on when May was on? Was May on when Corbyn was on?

Hit the off button folks the BBC are not worth a candle.

You know what would me cope much better with my impatience with the SNP?

Just one, public, categoric and unequivocal pledge that the SNP is doing everything it can to keep Scotland in the EU.

Not EFTA, not the Customs Union, not just access to the Single Market, I mean the two letter “E” and “U”. Not rubber band membership where we bounce out and bounce in again on an EFTA magic carpet, but proper EU citizenship where I get to keep my European Passport, and the Saltire joins all those other flags outside EU facilities.

See I have this very dark thought growing larger in my head that all this procrastination about a referendum has nothing to do with the polls moving, has nothing to do with the Brexit deal which we could pretty much write for ourselves right now, but it COULD be a cynical attempt by Brexiteers in SNP clothing, playing games and running interference to delay any decisive constitutional action until Brexit for Scotland is inescapable, capitulate to the Brexit deal which they have secretly always wanted, but cunningly put all the blame for it happening onto Westminster, and laugh up their sleeve at all the Europhiles, EU citizens, Foreign Nationals who have been hoodwinked into believing Scotland’s defence against Brexit was fought on a pro-EU ticket which made the Union untenable and Independence inevitable.

Because if that is the case, and the SNP is setting up Scotland’s Remain voters to go down with SS Great Britain but survive last minute by jumping into an EFTA lifeboat, then I promise, as a committed EU citizen I will do my best to make that betrayal blow up in both of your faces.

The SNP has a SOVEREIGN MANDATE from the Scottish Electorate to Remain in the EU, and I want to see a commitment from the SNP that staying in the EU is their primary Brexit priority.

It has NO sovereign mandate to abdicate sovereignty, nor arbitrarily compensate the grievous loss of EU citizenship with some ersatz deal with EFTA.

Don’t waste you breath and my time with Barusso type platitudes that the EU has said we need to reapply, or join the queue which EFTA can magically shorten… The EU after the Brexit vote said a great deal about the UK and a great deal about Scotland.

They said if Scotland wanted to remain in Europe our wishes should be respected, and a holding pen status could be devised to make safe our EU membership while we dealt with our constitutional readjustment to sovereign independence. When Alyn Smith got his standing ovation it was for NOT abandoning Europe. It was not for rolling over with Westminster, capitulating to Brexit, and cutting a deal with Norway.

Now I know, that to some extent Verhofstadt and Juncker were both shooting from the hip after Brexit, but that same shooting from the hip has proven to be remarkably accurate and prescient in virtually every aspect of Westminster’s Brexit, from the divorce bill that the UK needs to settle, from the collective negotiations through Michel Barnier, through illegality of unilateral trade deals, – the whole Brexit deal it has taken Westminster two years to figure out was right there, in those preliminary comments from Guy Verhofstadt and Jean Claude Juncker.

I will take a lot of persuading that I misunderstood that when they made reference to a holding pen status for Scotland, they were discussing Scotland’s EU membership held in stasis until Scotland addressed the constitutional finalities of our freshly emancipated sovereignty.

I am quite clear in my recollections that downgrading Scotland’s EU membership to mere access to the Single Market was an unforced concession from the SNP, which threw me at the time, when it seemed quite obvious to me that Scotland exercising its constitutional sovereignty to remain in the EU was the all conquering lever which would prize the damned Union apart and set Scotland free. We wouldn’t even need another referendum because the Brexit majority was more than adequate for our requisite expression of sovereignty..

So you better come clean SNP. Are you genuinely fighting for Scotland to remain in the EU? Or are you stringing us Remain Yessers and EU Nationals along with promises of EU bargains, when the reality is you plan to sell us out, roll over with Brexiteers, shed some crocodile tears and try to sell us on an EFTA booby prize, while you stand back and blame Westminster for making it all happen?

Come on all you SNP conference goers. I want somebody to say the right things to me.

Thoughts Wingers?

link to irishtimes.com

The BBC is still London Centric. Saw good letter in local paper which pointed out that in Scotland all three opposition parties are given plenty of airtime to regularly attack the SNP yet in UK wide political coverage on BBC or ITV or Sky news bulletins the SNP is rarely given an opportunity to comment on Tory or Labour Westminster announcements.

Thursday’s BBC Question Time programme, which is the most influential political TV programme, was just the latest example where a Tory supporting panellist was allowed to attack the SNP / Scottish government without the right of reply. As the third largest party in the House of Commons, and second largest in the UK in terms of membership, the SNP should be given a weekly representative out of the five panellists on Question Time.

Also, the BBC and Sky newspaper reviews quote the right-wing Tory press ad nauseam, which allows them to set the political agenda, but never the papers or online outlets that support independence.

That why broadcasting should be devolved.

It’s time the SNP seriously challenged the BBC / Sky on these issues if they want fair coverage.

Oops, the ? was meant to be a smiley.

Lack of originality and ineffective delivery. That’s exactly what the next campaign needs to avoid. 😉

Andy-B at 7.31

It’s the list intention. We are 17 points ahead on the FPTP. Those figures would give us 66 seats
The FPTP also shows Tories dropping.

Actually the problem with the list system is that many people think the list is for them to vote for their second choice which is not the object of it at all.

I wouldn’t use a list. I would gather Constituencies into groups and use total FPTP votes cast over them for the various parties to provide what is presently provided by the lists so the voters would only have to vote one.

Alternatively an agreement should be reached between the independence supporting parties (SNP,Greens, SSP, Labour for Indy) to agree a parcel of candidates on an SIC ticket which means that the overwhelming SNP vote wouldn’t have a lot of damaging effect on the list independence vote.

@ronnie anderson
Yes, but the police evacuated all bars and restaurants in the ares just in case. Luckily for my boy and his girlfriend, down for a weekend in London, they stopped off first for a drink in Camden. Some of us have a personal interest in the news.

Perhaps we should conduct a poll of WoS contributors.

The question is: when considering the winning of Scotland’s independence, what are all the prior conditions that you personally are placing before you will guarantee your YES vote in a second indyref?

Let’s flush out all our own special, different conditionalities that must be accepted upfront in the proposition before it would be acceptable to individuals!!!

Let’s see how much of the ground available to us we can cover over with our personal ‘red lines’. Let’s see how much of the potential vote for Yes we can split in advance.

@Breeks

“So you better come clean SNP. Are you genuinely fighting for Scotland to remain in the EU? Or are you stringing us Remain Yessers and EU Nationals along with promises of EU bargains, when the reality is you plan to sell us out, roll over with Brexiteers, shed some crocodile tears and try to sell us on an EFTA booby prize, while you stand back and blame Westminster for making it all happen?”

Over and over and over again. Yawn, you really should change the record. I’d rather listen to Nicola Sturgeon than you when she says she want’s Scotland to remain in the EU.

I also believe she and her government are doing everything possible with what powers they have to try and achieve this. Who are you to demand the SNP “better come clean” and just why do you doubt her?

stewart

I am pretty much demanding that there is a bit of paper with a box for me to tick Yes to independence against.

Does that count as a precondition?

@Breeks / @RJS
There’s undoubtedly some in the SNP doing an anti-EU thing, probably most of those who want Indy Ref 2 put off until after 2021 on the sneaky basis we’re out of the EU then, so they wn (and Indy possiblu loses completely).

But the EU decision isn’t made for sure yet, and can’t be made for sure yet, as we don’t know what the EU reaction will be to the ScotGov actually setting a date for IR2, which they can’t do until after the Brexit terms (or none) are agreed, which will probably be next September.

But having said that, the likes of Breeks – and yourself – making your voices known in a robust fashion is – needed – to keep the SNP on track.

HandandShrimp @ 8:53 pm

You said: “I am pretty much demanding that there is a bit of paper with a box for me to tick Yes to independence against. Does that count as a precondition?”

Me too. Its the only ‘must-have’ on my agenda … until after the celebratory party!

EFTA/EEA is not a booby prize and a damn site better than nothing.

EFTA/EEA means:

1. EU nationals can remain in Scotland, free movement of people still applies which works both ways.

2. We would still be in the single market.

3. They may be some political/votes advantage to be gained in that Fisheries and agriculture would be under sole control on the Scottish government and not the EU.

4. Access would be easier we would be accepted very shortly after applying, we do not need the support of Spain. That is certain.

5. We would be free to decide our own terms with rUK so free trade with our “biggest partner” could continue unhindered.

6. It’s a lot cheaper, can’t put a sum on it but will be sure to look it up in future.

There is a downside.

We have no elected MEP’s and no say on making EU law decided in Brussels.

I’d be very satisfied with the “booby prize” compared to what it is I’m currently facing and that is zero by remaining with the UK.

Do we really need to be going this time after time?

@Ronnie Anderson –

Had a boss once, in the pub game. He was a ham-fisted scam artist and a humourless fud, a huge fan of The Rangers, did the whole funny-handshake routine with folk applying for a job (p/t bar work!) and really strained to disguise his dislike of foreigners (esp those of colour) because the business he was in charge of catered for many students.

Anyway, this dude very rarely enthused about anything, but I remember him getting all glassy-eyed and actually *smiling* when talking about London. So far as he was concerned, it was the actual *centre* of civilization. I’m not joking.

For people like him, a RTA in London is no mere RTA. It is a priori special, uniquely interesting and important just because it happened in the wonderful metropolis. He’s the sort who would’ve been glued to the telly today, cursing imaginary foes.

In 2005 I had good reason to believe a relative was in London on 7/7. There was a horrible period of silence before we got confirmation that the person was alright, so I sympathise with anyone who was concerned by the ‘news’, but otherwise? most of us, including Londoners, no longer pay much attention to the hysterical pish being blared out 24/7 by a MSM which is always keen to fan fear and panic.

@Alex Clark
It’s not an easy one. Comparisons have been made with Norway, with a conclusion that though Norway pays less per capita than the UK, it’s “not that much”. But it totally misses the point that Norway is a volunatary contributor to some EU programs, it could just save the money by not taking part. Clearly they’ve decided there’s economic benefit to taking part, as well as making them “good guys”. Costs for EFTA are very small, it only has some silly figure like 96 employees, and a low but sufficient budget.