The People Versus Plutocracy
Just a quick update on the Alistair Carmichael fundraiser:
In barely 48 hours, almost £37,000 has been raised by the general public to challenge the election of a British MP under false pretences. We don’t believe there’s any sort of precedent for that. It would now seem beyond any reasonable doubt that there will be an official legal challenge to the former Secretary of State.
However greatly it may be to the chagrin of metropolitan commentators like Michael White, it appears that the people of Scotland, having been awoken in large numbers by the independence referendum, are simply no longer content to sit back meekly and allow either the political establishment itself or the media which claims to scrutinise it keep its house (or Houses) in order.
The events of the last few years have made Scotland increasingly disinclined to put its trust in self-appointed gatekeepers, and willing to take matters of politics directly into its own hands. Whatever the eventual outcome of the independence story, the electorate seems not to want to go back into its box, where attention is only paid to it twice a decade. If so, the referendum will have brought about a far more wide-reaching victory than anyone ever imagined.
It seems we have begun to find ways of wriggling out of our straitjackets, and the British establishment is realising that their control over us is not as secure as they once thought.
Well said!
Well done to all who have contributed. Let’s keep it going and raise the £60,000 needed for this case to go forward. I look forward to the papers being lodged with the court by tomorrow.
Just shows what we , the ordinary punter can do when we put our minds to it. It’s just amazing how far we have come since the referendum, and the journey ain’t over yet.
Good luck Orkney & Shetland, we are all right with you on this one.
I fully expect Carmichael to resign now. There is no way the Brit Political Establishment will allow this to go to Court and no way will they want their cronies, toadies and lackeys and others hauled into a dock. Perjury after all caries a jail sentence does it not?
Clearly all this money could go to good causes if Alistair Carmichael does the decent thing and stand down…………….but when have the Lib Dems done the decent thing?
It’s amazing what a few ordinary folk willing to spare a few quid can do when they get together. The WM system is not designed to cope with this type of “rebellion”. They are crumbling, folks. Rioting in the streets, they can deal with, but taking them on at their own game, using their own rules, is scaring the crap out of them.
Carmichael and Mundell are being used to cover higher asses. However, as human shields, these two jokers are as effective as chocolate fireguards. If this comes to court, I believe they will quickly fold and expose the real puppet masters pulling the strings. This could go high, way high if we keep the pressure on.
C’mon folks, keep pushing. If you haven’t contributed so far, please chip in a wee bit if you can – no amount is too small. We can do this. Power to the people!
No matter what the outcome of the lying Carmichael, they now all know, you mess with the Scottish public at your own peril.
He leaked (falsified) information about a meeting between the First Minister of Scotland and a senior foreign diplomat!!!! Then denied it!!!
If I took a roll of Sellotape home from work I would be in shoogly nail territory.
He has to go. If he had an ounce of honour he would have gone already.
Already donated and just about to double it.
I would like to contribute but don’t want to use the app. Help?
Near the Old Man of Hoy,someone may be in reflected mood.
‘Whit’s fur ye’ll no go past ye’
Very proud of Scotland regarding this matter. Democracy = Priceless!
I can’t begin to imagine something like this happening south of the border where forelock tugging seems to have overtaken cricket as national pastime.
It’s very heartening to see the large number of small donations – lots of £5 and lots of less than that. Quite a few of only £1. This is people wanting to express their support for the action, without necessarily digging deep, and it’s exactly what crowdfunding is about.
Still only 2,384 people though, and I think if the initiative was more widely publicised it could be a lot more.
Another point. At the moment I’m still hoping that what I did was donate a modest sum to a foodbank appeal. If things get really heavy, I’m perfectly prepared to chip in again. I suspect a lot of people who initially gave small amounts might be thinking this way.
The operative words being ‘public servants’ – it’s well past time we took that in its fullest meaning.
Be they, civil servants, politicians, BBC-ists paid by public dosh, police, military, etc., etc…., they are accountable, and now in the full public glare, with public resentment well and truly stoked up, perspectives are being forced to change.
Of course David Mundell is involved and when opened up this will go all the way to the top of UK Government. Crikey!
The public view of the newspapers, journalists, spinners, apologists and other assorted bag-men is well and truly scunnered. There’s been a huge sea-change. As for the likes of Col Blimp type Michael White, it’s surely time to hang up that ‘tash besides his well jaundiced views on what democracy should suitably be.
Hear, hear, Rev.
Very well said and so very, very true! A loud stomping of feet and jeering can be heard across the country.
No clapping please; it’s against house rules….
A big thanks to you Rev.Stu for helping us to see through all the lies our imperial masters spin.
Carmichael yir tea’s oot.
Do the decent thing and see the money raised go to food banks instead of wasted on a foregone conclusion.
This fundraiser is an amazing development and unheard of to my knowledge at least in the UK.
The fact that ordinary people see fit to challenge the state through the courts will be noticed throughout the world, it is a protest but of a different type to that we are accustomed to in this country.
If anything it may prove to be the most powerful type of protest available to the public. After all if 2,000,000 demonstrating against the Iraq war failed to make any impact. How might a instead a legal challenge brought by the people against the government have fared?
Obviously that cannot be answered but it certainly would have had a huge effect on public opinion.
Our elected representatives should be held to account for their actions, being only able to do this through the ballot box every five years is something but I believe not effective enough.
Expect the right wing press in particular to step up the attacks at this “witch hunt” and “hounding” of elected officials.
Things have definitely changed in Scotland, this action will prove to be far more powerful than the anti-austerity demos in Liverpool and London yesterday.
People are certainly motivated to challenge the establishment when needed. However, like the failed attempt from the SNP to stop the initial leaders debate broadcast in Scotland, it remains to be seen what will actually be achieved via the legal process route.
Personally I am skeptical, but even if a legal challenge fails it will look like the establishment are dictating to the public and remaining insulated from it.
A legal challenge could also shed light on how the Memo really came to being created, via which process(spying/bugging), from which source/departments did any of this come to light. If something was ‘lost in translation’ (another bullshit lie) – but if so, by whom, from what source?
Essentially the more we can dig the murkier and suspicious the Scottish office and UK practice becomes.
Just announced the amount in the office.
“A massive clapping noise overcame me ! ”
Well done to all.
Philip Hammond better look out ! LOL
Well put, Stu.
We have put up with Unionist lies, muck slinging, underhand tactics for more than a year. It’s time to nail some of them!
I sense the Establishment and their media running dogs just want this to go away. Tough.
Isn’t it a terrible indictment upon the system that it is necessary to go down this expensive and convoluted route to recall this odious man to face the wrath of the folk whom he got to elect him under false pretences. I fully understand that any system of recall needs to weed out frivolous claims, but this needs sorted.
@ Iain Moore 11:48 Very much hope you are correct though I fear they may yet try to block the case before it goes to trial &/or ramp up the costs to make it prohibitive even with such amazing funding.
@gillie 11:50 what a great “out” for D-lister Carmichael who would undoubtably claim to be the hero who has brought both honor & £37,158 to the people of Orkney & Shetland #AyeRight
This may never get to court.
If it does then We may lose.
But, by fk, I bet it is testing the efficiency of the washing powder in the Carmichael household.
Think yours will need a boil, Ally.
Malcolm says:
28 May, 2015 at 12:07 pm
This may never get to court.
If it does then We may lose.
But, by fk, I bet it is testing the efficiency of the washing powder in the Carmichael household.
Think yours will need a boil, Ally.
And whatever happens, the story stays fresh, the Lib Dems are finished and the money goes to a good cause. It’s a win-win!
In the real world people are dismissed for a lot less. No second chance and no excuse.
The parliamentary code needs a complete overhaul and members who break it sacked. No ifs and no buts.
Chic Thomson says:
28 May, 2015 at 12:06 pm
Isn’t it a terrible indictment upon the system that it is necessary to go down this expensive and convoluted route to recall this odious man to face the wrath of the folk whom he got to elect him under false pretences. I fully understand that any system of recall needs to weed out frivolous claims, but this needs sorted.
The system won’t change itself, Chic. It’s up to us now.
Brilliant! It is indeed showing how normal voters can call their MPs to account. The Scots have shown the way on this one.
The National Report that the organisers intend to file today, Thursday having received offers of gratis legal representation. Doesn’t mean they don’t need the £60k as costs may be ordered against them. So keep going folks.
The donations average out to a tad over £15 each. So it is indeed the people who are doing this.
Great article.
[…] The People Versus Plutocracy […]
I can see the establishment stopping this one way or another , otherwise if opened the worms in the can are to big to allow a proper court trial
Certainly the case might fall for any number of reasons.
But as others have said, the significance is greater than the outcome.
We have talked before about the fact that the Scottish people are sovereign, but that is meaningless without a means of putting the idea into practice. This is just such a means, and while the government can change any law it likes, there is a constraint in doing so just to cover their tails. Law and regulation are always written to appear reasonable and fair: they are not intended to be used that way, but the fact is that such use is open to us probably on many issues. The rule of law is intended to be the safeguard for all of the people against abuse, whether by criminals or by politicians. Far from perfect, but not useless either.
The mindset which underpins sovereignty of the people is shared: but the fact it has no means of expression has hindered us in the past, and this can change
It is not shared in England, where a different tradition applies: but underlying the valued concept of parliamentary sovereignty in that country is an inchoate appreciation that there does need to be redress for the “sturdy yeoman” of independent mind. So I think there is material there to work with as well
We need to be thinking hard about how these concepts interact, and also about other ways which may be available to five expression to people power, or sovereignty of the people, as it is in constitutional terms
Parliamentary sovereignty is take for granted, overtly in England and covertly through our acceptance of it in practice in Scotland. Never forget that it is not inevitable: for example it does not apply in the United States. That is what the bill or rights and the constitution actually mean. That parliament is not sovereign; it is constrained by inalienable rights which may not be overturned by congress. Putting the constitutional pieces together is not easy: but many in Scotland want a written constitution and that demand is precisely a challenge to the dogma of parliamentary sovereignty.
There has been £500 added just since this thread started half an hour ago.
It seems I’ve contributed to 27 Indiegogo campaigns now, I’d say 90%+ as click-through’s from this site. Hope the Rev gets paid for this.
Thinking about it it’s just as well my missus doesn’t see my PayPal account. 🙂
I chipped in today and I will chip in again if the best lawyers are needed.
I should add that Fiona MacInnes was up at the crack of dawn personally answering my letter of support on Twitter, which I rather regret sending, as she must be suffering from a serious lack of sleep!
I think Carbuncle will be hung out to dry, as awkward questions are now being asked of Fluffy and the SNP is asking Downing Street to come clean on what it knew.
Fluffy’s TV interview in which he clearly avoided answering the question directly is very indicative. All along, I have believed that the whole story originated with either Dave or the head of the civil service.
And I think we owe a great thanks to our Auld Ally, France, for not taking the “no comment” approach and helping to kill the story stone dead only hours after it appeared. I believe “Better Together” were counting on the French adhering to diplomatic “nicities”. Vive la République!
Well done to everyone involved and let us hope that the money is raised. I doubt that there has ever been a more involved population for a heck of a long time. On commenting on the story about People in Manchester wanting to join Scotland. I was moved to ask the person who said people were frightened of the SNP getting involved with Labour. I asked was it not possible to use the internet to find out the truth of the stories circulating because that is what we do. Time will only tell if the English catch up with us.
I have been trying to donate but I am afraid my laptop skills are very limited is there not a phone number I can call to donate I would find that a lot easier and I am sure others in my age group would as well I am 76 please help
I see the newly appointed assistant lackey to the ‘Scottish Office’, Prof Tomkins showing early signs of illusions of grandeur, tweeting about the SG being held to account.
As the saying goes, the power of the people is more important than the people in power.
Whatever the outcome, Liarmichael, Rennie and Scott have ensured the obliteration of their rancid, lying, hypocritical organisation at next year’s Holyrood elections. Good riddance to them.
For me, Wee Ginger Dug summed it up beautifully in The National today comparing what Mr Carmicheal has been up to with that of Mhairi Black eating a bag of crisps.. Yes! A bag of crisps. I was shocked to the core! (I’m still not fully recovered)
Everyday there is glaring faux outrage being directed in the wrong direction from the MSM. They’re either at the wind up or are too stupid to realise we see though all the pish they print/broadcast.
I was happy to donate to the fund-raiser, but isn’t a shame that people have to go though a court process in order to highlight an MP’s lying ways.
At least after a court decision we can then refer to Mr Carmichael as “Disgraced former MP..” etc (hopefully)
This is quintessential democracy , (dêmos) “people” and (krátos) “power”
The word `democracy`has been used and abused by the Establishment since the first time it was uttered,to give the people the illusion they have the power to change things.
This act of `people power` could be a chance to use that powerful word `Democracy`and shove it down the throats of the Establishment so they choke on it.
just sayin.
Kenny says:
28 May, 2015 at 12:27 pm
And I think we owe a great thanks to our Auld Ally, France, for not taking the “no comment” approach and helping to kill the story stone dead only hours after it appeared. I believe “Better Together” were counting on the French adhering to diplomatic “nicities”. Vive la République!
Indeed, absolutely everything hinged on the French keeping schtum about this dirty little ploy of HM government. Previous form indicated they would, but they miscalculated badly. This time the French, probably realising that NS was being set up, spoke out and backed up our FM to the hilt. Possibly a slight irritation that they may have been bugged by British Intelligence also played a part. After that, things unravelled fast and it backfired spectacularly. With only the chocolate fireguards of Carmichael and Mundell to shield them, and an exercise in people power now underway, those High Heid yins pulling the strings are getting nervous.
Vive La France!
As I write the total so far is just shy of 38K with 2434 donations. There is no doubt that the legal process is cumbersome and somewhat ancient. I can visualise dust being blown from hide bound legal documents.
Tim Morrison, aka OrkneyVole, explains the process so far.
link to tinyurl.com
This should leave a very clear message in every MPs mind.
People don’t have to wait five years to make their opinions known.
In anticipation of Humpty Dumpty Carmichael being pushed off his wall, I’ve already started putting pennies in my Jam Jar to haul Mundell up to the beaks. What’s really astonishing is the media haven’t or won’t come out & say that these two mugs are being hung out to dry by David “Flashmann” Cameron….. cunningplans.com
For some of us, the Highland Clearances never ended. The only difference in the modern age is that it’s the free-thinking voices of the people of Scotland that ‘they’ have endeavoured to eject.
And sought in our place, subservient flock bleating to the establishment; with imposed shepherd changes every 5 years.
It appears to have worked for 307 years, but in these unprecedented times of awakening within the Scottish psyche, things are most definitely changing.
Events in Orkney & Shetland are the benchmark to which WM should be aware of, regardless of the eventual outcome.
Trying to avoid platitudes, but who would have thought just a year ago that we (as in a large percentage, not all) the people of Scotland would be involved in our own Velvet Revolution?
Like with so many movements of dissent throughout history, I cannot see us ever going back to what once was.
Exciting (very) times ahead.
Are the Lib Dems on tonight’s Question Time panel in Aberdeen? Because if they are they’re in for a pasting!
Also what are the odds that Carmichael will go today to avoid a court petition?
Getting my popcorn ready for tonight.
Absolutely amazing to see.
Yet again if proof were needed, which it isn’t 😉 , that the people of Scotland have been awoken from their deep slumberous sleep and are definitively NOT going to even consider the slightest possibility of returning to their wee cardboard boxes. Well we can’t can we cause we have burnt them all already. 😀
It is great to read that lawyers have pledged to help the campaign free of charge even if it fails to reach the final target. I think Carmichael should be made fully aware that even fellow lawyers are prepared to work against him in order to oust him for the sake of democracy. If he somehow didn’t think he was at the centre of a political whirlwind then he must surely know now.
For pity’s sake Carmichael just go! You are doing yourself no favours but more importantly you are not doing your constituents in Orkney and Shetland any favours by clinging on for dear life by your pinky nails.
Have contributed £10, and more later if necessary. We’ve just got back from a wee break in the highlands. Thanks to a dodgy internet connection I couldn’t follow Wings properly, so I’m trying to catch up now.
God bless the French ambassador. But for her, the establishment’s dirty little trick might well have worked, with Nicola Sturgeon’s career badly damaged, and the SNP discredited. Just before the G.E. too.
As it is, the whole thing has rebounded on them, and they’re frantically trying to save themselves. I don’t believe that the buffoon Carmichael could have done this by himself. Someone with a better brain than his must have worked this one out. Mundell obviously has a lot of explaining to do as well. I look forward to his fundraiser.
Tick tock, tick tock. Happily donated already. I will donate more if required also. It would be ideal if Aliestair would resign now and allow these funds to go to food banks across the country. Although I would love this to go to court just to see them squirm.
The people of Scotland have woken and will no longer tolerate those representing the people to get away with what they have for so long.
Time for positive change!
Trident safety probe finds no safety issues – Scotsman
A few days after incarcerating the whistleblower a full and comprehensive review of our huge technically complicated lethal Trident system gets a clean bill of health.
This looks like a job for “Super Health and Safety Man” with such super powers to fully review the nuclear estate in days. It is so reassured.
They could have at least waited a reasonable time to to tell us nothing.
And I think we owe a great thanks to our Auld Ally, France, for not taking the “no comment” approach and helping to kill the story stone dead only hours after it appeared. I believe “Better Together” were counting on the French adhering to diplomatic “nicities”. Vive la République!
well said, Kenny.
It’s great that everyone is chipping in to help this case and even should the truth win or lose one thing will not be forgotten Carmichael’s behaviour in all of this
Food banks may benefit that’s good but people who don’t have much are contributing and this is the kind of man Carmichael is, he doesn’t care what it costs anybody
Whether it’s people’s sense of outrage injustice, elderly folks nerves, that embarrassment to the local community yet still he digs in
This is the man who would be MP saying “I don’t care I’m clinging on and to hell with all of you”
Carmichael’s attitude in this matter will absolutely see the end of Liberal Democrat participation in Scottish politics come the Holyrood Elections and I suppose his MSP colleagues will thank him for his continued tenacity when next they visit the doorsteps for votes in that Parliament
If this crowd-funder does anything, other than rid our Northern Isles of a troughing parasite or gives a welcome boost to hard pressed Scottish food-banks, it will be to kill stone dead that unionist mantra of the LibDem, Tory and Labour party that goes back as far as I can remember.
I refer to the mantra that the rest of Scotland has no regard for our Scottish brethren in our island communities. The Tavish Scott mantra has it they would be better off to declare themselves as independent of Scotland and stick with the United Kingdom as the Scots don’t care but the Establishment does has been shot to bits.
The Islanders asked for help and Mainlanders were not slow to rally to their aid. It proves we Scots are really all in this together and, going by the English social media commenters, not really part of their collective thinking.
Luigi and Kenny. I didn’t see your comments before I posted. Honest.:-)
Carmichael still touching it out, I’m very surprised and arguably this suits.. Win or lose the case, the public are challenging Westminster over political representation and is a political milestone.
Carmichael may win to retain his seat but he will be tarnished goods. Win or lose by contesting the action he causes public funds otherwise destined to charities to used for legal costs.
And, his objective was to damage the reputation of Scotland’ First Minister.
Will this now be off topic on Question Time from Aberdeen due to ‘ongoing court case’
I hope someone asks “Is lying in the public interest?”
I agree with Morag, contributed to get it going, hopefully it won’t be needed and will go to foodbanks, but if this escalates I will gladly multiply by a factor of 10 or more what I have given so far.
The UK establishment trying to silence Scotland’s electorate in court? Without a doubt Scotland’s people would dig deep and the precedent it would set would be sensational. It’s time ordinary people were empowered, and if crowdfunding is the means by which we do this then bring it on!
well said Stu and you are right we are not messing about anymore we mean business.
I hope they do Helena but they have some serious running to catch us up as we aint slowing down anytime soon in fact has anybody checked to see if we have any brakes on this juggernaut lol
Take a good look Occupy movement this is how you do it.
James Chalmers, from the Glasgow School of Law, makes some comments about the case – and some of the legal difficulties the petitioners will have to overcome. His conclusion: success would be tricky for them but not impossible.
Malcolm says ”This may never get to court. If it does then We may lose. But, by fk, I bet it is testing the efficiency of the washing powder in the Carmichael household. Think yours will need a boil, All”.
Maybe he’ll resign rather than go to Court Malcolm to avoid others being called to give evidence and in the process opening a real can of worms.
On the other-hand it may go to Court and if he loses may be appealed against dragging it out for God knows how long.
I was involved in a Tribunal case, a few years ago, which I won. I was delighted and celebrated the occasion. A bit premature as it turned out as the ‘opposition’ had 30 days to appeal against the decision and they did: Submitted their appeal at the last hour.
The case was then heard in the Appeal Court in Edinburgh (in front of one Law Lord). I won my case there too but was a bit older and a lot wiser by then, so didn’t celebrate on this occasion, lol, and was right not to do so as the decision was appealed against and submitted to the Court of Session in Edinburgh (in front of three Law Lords).
I lost the case on one obscure point and pushed on to the House of Lords (five Law Lords) knowing in my heart of hearts that I wouldn’t get justice there at all but determined not to give up.
I didn’t win however it shook up the Establishment to some extent, really opened my eyes to the ‘dirty tricks’ brigade / horrendous corruption and the difficulties encountered (including financial) / massive obstacles put in your way in attempting to get justice.
It’s also another reason, just one of many, for wanting to live in an Independent Scotland. To my mind Scottish cases should begin and end in Scotland and not be heard in front of a group of people, Law Lords, that are focused on protecting an archaic, corrupt Establishment.
@Fiona
I enjoyed reading your last post.
We do have to remember that even Scots Law has been written over centuries by the Scottish Crown, Lords and Scottish Establishment aided and abetted by their Scottish legal lackeys who where happy to accept the fees to protect their privileged , assets, influence and control.
When most of our legal system was written and legislated only the great the privileged had a vote or could afford to contract lawyers to prusue their advantage. It took centuries to write our present legal dynasty. Hopefully it will only take decades to re – right.
Remember the famous quote – “the poor had no lawyers”. Well perhaps we do now.
A great big merci beaucoup here also to our once, and hopefully, once again when our independence comes, Auld Alliance partners. They did us a big favour. Now we owe them one, which, again, hopefully as an independent country we will.
Here’s a thing:
Imagine had this scenario taken place: the UK government, with Carmichael as their patsy, perform the exact same illegal dirty trick in attempting to discredit Sturgeon… but the other country involved is not France but the USA…
Would the US’s diplomats have been so ready to quash the lie/smear/illegality…..?
I see the crowd funder is almost at £38,500.
link to indiegogo.com
The on line petition for Carmichael to go is also nearing its target of 15,000 signatories with 12,777 out of 15,000 needed. 😀
link to change.org
The fact that the French were sufficiently outraged to intervene means that there’s a plan B and C waiting if the investigation is stymied. Having the election result voided should be the least of his problems. If he fails to do the honourable thing and resign he should be faced with the prospect of the police investigation into allegations of his breaking the Official Secrets Act. My advice to him would be go now and save us all the effort.
“These things happen” £60.000 crowd fund raising really puts the £1.4 million cost for investigating the fraud into perspective.
Here’s the crook calling for people to be sacked over public money spends in Dundee, mid February
link to thecourier.co.uk
Read on Facebook that the Lawyers are going to do the work for free!
That would be amazing! Then all the money could go to good causes.
The BBC are reporting a rumour that the olde English Establishment are afraid they get the clap from the new Scottish contingent at Westminster.
@ Alastair says ”Trident safety probe finds no safety issues – Scotsman. A few days after incarcerating the whistleblower a full and comprehensive review of our huge technically complicated lethal Trident system gets a clean bill of health. This looks like a job for “Super Health and Safety Man” with such super powers to fully review the nuclear estate in days. It is so reassured. They could have at least waited a reasonable time to to tell us nothing.”
Strange don’t you think Alastair that when the Sunday Herald requested information, under the Freedom of Information Act, the MoD had to divulge that 316 Nuclear Safety incidents had taken place over the last five years; some in line with McNeillys complaints.
You can also bet your bottom dollar that the 316 incidents that they had to divulge will just be the tip of the iceberg (the incidents that they couldn’t cover up).
This video is a few years old now but highlights Trident / Faslane ‘issues’ that were uncovered at that time too.
link to youtube.com
I am English. I donated because I am disgusted at the corruption in our political system. This isn’t a Scottish matter but a UK governance one, whatever twits like White and Sir Malcolm Bung say.
Swithered and swithered… I had a bit of sympathy with Derek Bateman’s idea that hunting a big daft mealie puddin through the courts was beneath the usual dignity of pro-Scotland folks. Then read this thread, and concluded that this campaign is one of the most vital outbursts of real democracy I’ve ever seen. Just gave £15 for now, will donate more if it’s looking necessary. Carmichael: tick, tock.
I had some money set aside to buy my Wife some carved scented candles ,when in Spain,she,ll still get them,but I want tae smell the flesh of ah burning arse,so like Morag & Others more will be donated.
Jeez Robert!
I almost spewed my tea out onto my computer screen there. 😀
Well said @ Julian and dont worry we are not psycho Scottish nutjobs that hate everybody according to the MSM lol
So glad you popped in and thank you ,welcome to wings 🙂
I do hope we have set another precedence that all the people of the UK can use in the future.
@ Robert i am more worried that our team56 will come down with verbal diarrhea, there seems to be a lot of it going about in westminster,i hope they all took their vaccination jabs lol
No surely not! This is big news in Scotland. It has to be raised at QT. There is no court case as yet so no reason for it being sidelined.
If it is then the BBC are at it again.
@Julian says ” This isn’t a Scottish matter but a UK governance one, whatever twits like White and Sir Malcolm Bung say.”
Couldn’t agree more (particularly the Sir Malcolm BUNG bit!!). This is a UK problem of corruption in the system, and even though we English tend to be a bit slower on the uptake than Scots – I’m sure we’ll get better!!
Just hoping the English are as competent with online matters for the messages to reach them, and to show them what a ‘crowdfunding-base’ they would have if someone decides to have a go themselves.
Best of luck with this fundraiser (gladly donated also)
It is our democracy and we intend to keep it now.
The Referendum changed Scotland – forever.
The establishment will close ranks behind Carmichael which should result in some excellent “truths” entering the public domain in time for the Holyrood elections.
@Luigi says: 28 May, 2015 at 12:11 pm:
” … I fully understand that any system of recall needs to weed out frivolous claims, but this needs sorted”.
Indeed so. This may be figuratively what is behind the SNP contingent’s clapping, even after they have been told off. All this traditional, (if you will pardon the pun), claptrap costs the taxpayer millions every year.
To allow the normal childish, “Ya! Boo!”, and, “Ya! Boo! to You too!”, that is Traditional in the Establishment but banning a polite round of applause is hypocritical in the extreme.
This is, after all, supposed to be the workplace of the legislature of a modern Nation but the idiotic pageantry seems more important to these troughing numpties than doing their job in an efficient and honourable manner.
Not to mention the numerous eateries, watering holes and various expensive pastimes they get as their right while taxing the Old Age Pensioners, disabled, sick and just plain poor people. At present there are billions needed to just maintain that crumbling pile of old stone and ancient carved woodwork.
If they are so set upon continuing to run the United Kingdom under such old and quite stupid unwritten rules and regulations then let England get on with it at England’s expense while the rest of the UK run their own countries.
Honour? These numpties don’t know the meaning of the word.
I see from the Press & Journal today that the SNP are now asking questions to the Prime Minister re his knowledge of #Memogate. If it was found he DID know of the whole caper and let it run, can we then file in Court for a re-run of the WHOLE ELECTION??? I’d certainly put money into that Crowdfunder (as I have the O & S one)…
I have to be honest and say that I hope that Carmichael clings on and the case has to go to Court. I think Scotland has a much better chance of getting to the truth of ‘who knew what’ as Court may insist of information from ALL parties involved, which will mean an investigation to find precisely who that is. I really think that’s necessary for ALL of Scotland, not JUST Orkney & Shetland. Yes – they got a representative that they may not have voted for in the circumstances. But this ‘we can do as we like’ attitude is prevalent in the whole of WM and it needs to be tackled.
The politicians needs to know that this kind of behaviour is no longer acceptable and WON’T be accepted. And the people of UK need to know that we have the power to get rid of politicians who think they are outwith the law or behaving outwith normal moral or ethical parameters!
O/T – sorry! But – is it just me? Or is it strange that the investigation into the safety aspects of the Trident Whistleblower’s claims, has already taken place, and everything has been satisfactorily concluded? A few days is all it took – whereas this Carmichael thing wasn’t concluded for weeks, concluded AFTER the election and – cost a great deal of money? Is it just me being too suspicious, being too sceptical – or what?
It’s great to see such resistance to our previously secure imperial masters. The possibility of a court case must be very worrying for them.
As Fiona has said, what spooks them is that we are playing by their rules and putting them under pressure. You can be sure AS and AR will be using parliamentary procedures to our advantage.
I liked the clapping yesterday: it was disciplined and appropriate, unlike the public school animal noises we normally have to contend with. What is Bercow going to do if the SNP persist? Can he name them all and suspend them?
The nicest gesture of resistance was the wearing of the white rose:
“I want for my part
Only the little white rose of Scotland
That smells sharp and sweet—and
breaks the heart.”
Hugh MacDiarmid
Sorry I have been unable to fund anything of late. I must take my overdraft elsewhere from the crookit B of S.
Another good cause. I signed a petition on the grounds that the man is a bam. Tg=hat should go down well with the legal wordsmith liars and shysters.
Robert Peffers @1.02 well said, I was thinking much the same, that people in O & S have said many times in the past, that they feel they are not part of our country, and feel ignored.
I hope that the response to the fundraiser goes some way to showing our friends, that we do care, that they were cheated of the full facts when they went to the polls.
It is of course, also a wider comment from the rest of the country, that we won’t be patronised anymore.
This incident has also shown the dearth of integrity within BBC Scotland, who pursued Sturgeon, and the poor Coffinier at the time – where are they now? Why aren’t they pursuing Carmichael for a comment? I don’t see anything from them, although I know this is par for them.
After getting their knuckles rapped about clapping, I would suggest that the ’56’, following any comment by one of their group, have an in-unison (but sarcastic) chant of “HeeYar, HeeYar, HeeYar”.
If you can’t beat them, join them!
@ Tarisgal
Nope you are not its another team GB whitewash,nothing to see here, no dangerous nuke subs in a poor state of repair sitting 20 miles away from the largest Scottish population, all is tickety boo ,the poor chap was off his rocker so we will stick him in prison for the next 20 years.
Aye right!
Maybe he should have done a Snowden first,he was never going to get a fair hearing from the UK gestapo.
link to bbc.co.uk
A million more thank yous Mr and Mrs Weir!
Something for the MSM to think about! If you did your job as investigative journalists, defenders of the people and told the truth now and again “we the people” might buy your newspapers instead of raising money to get to the truth ourselves. I have no problem either way but we will not accept lies and attempted cover ups as being the norm anymore. Up until a couple of months ago I’d never even heard of crowd funding, to date Wings, Gingerdug, Bella etc have benefited. I have not one ounce of doubt that we are doing the right thing. A few quid here and there is a small price to pay for true democracy, the feelgood factor alone is worth it!
Aww, heedtracker, aren’t the Weirs lovely?
They are doing great things with their win, helping others.
@ Julian 1.49 welcome to wings, we are generally quite a civilised bunch, despite what you hear from the BBC and what is laughingly know as the NEWSpapers.
You make a very fair point that is not only a Scotland matter but also UK. You will find however that the UK are not interested, except to try and shut us down. Won’t work, but they have yet to realise this.
Thank you for your donation, and may I add that like others, I have already donated, but I will gladly do so again if needed.
OT just watching Tommy Sheppard making his maiden speech, very articulate, and making great points. Great performance for Edinburgh East.
@Valerie says: 28 May, 2015 at 3:20 pm:
“Aww, heedtracker, aren’t the Weirs lovely?
They are doing great things with their win, helping others.”
A really nice couple who have done nothing but good with their money, and not just for the SNP, hearts of gold.
H Finch & Blair Paterson
Genuine offer. Ask Rev via contact page to pass your contact details to me via email & I’ll put the contributions in for you.
“the referendum will have brought about a far more wide-reaching victory than anyone ever imagined.”
Very perceptive, Stu, well done.
Should the Carmichael case go to court, then the sovereignty of the people will meet the Establishment face to face in the form of the Judiciary. The Judiciary will not pass judgement against itself. In the UK, the courts are Courts of Law, not Courts of Justice. The Establishment make the laws.
Carmichael is a brick in a wall. The judge/the Establishment will keep him there. They have too much to lose now.
But this engagement between the People and the Establishment in a Court, is one we simply have to have. And the longer this goes on, the more obvious it will become that this is not about Carmichael, whose reputation will be totally ruined, but about those in the Cabinet Office at No 10 – the inevitable source of the authority under which Carmichael acted.
The potential for major political fallout must be huge.
Like many others, I have already donated, but will do so again if called upon. We must get over the try line – even if the Ref does not allow it. Cameron and crew must learn that there will be no more ‘business as usual’.
The total is now £39,100 or 65% of the total needed. Lets keep helping this good cause. Every little helps 🙂
Valerie says:
28 May, 2015 at 3:20 pm
Aww, heedtracker, aren’t the Weirs lovely?
They are. And they are probably unique among lotto winners too, for giving so much in the cause of Scottish democracy. Not that you’d think that from the ever dreary, nae miserable BBC in Scotland thing about their latest donation.
Actually surprised BBC reported it all but any port in the integrity void Britnat world of Carmichael and co storm right now.
Wow! And well said.
Inspiring. Young voters take note. Do not go backwards – keep the pressure up on your politicians.
Here´s a suggestion.
In the spirit of entent cordial and as a way of sending a big merci beaucoup to our auld alliance partners for their outstanding contribution to our “memogate” cause can I suggest that over the next couple of days we all get down to the shops and buy something French.
(letters don’t count!)
I personally have got my eye on one of those big Renault 4X4 s.u.v. things. Aye I wish!!
Seriously though, why not? Show some appreciation.
I´m off this minute down to Lidl´s and see if for a five spot I can get a big weg of Camembert and a nice wee bottle of bojolly to wash it down with.
Let yous know how I get on.
Any other suggestions please feel free to share with us all.
It’s imperative we keep this going. Whatever the outcome, politicians are going to have an unpleasant sensation every time they attempt fabrication. Perhaps it will make a few of them think twice.
Carmichael is finished, along with fifty other deposed troughers and liars. I make no apologies for any individual members who some think are honest and decent characters. They represented parties whose total election campaigns were based on smears and lies. Flee with the craws…etc.
We can clear out the Scottish parliament in 2016. Carmichael, Scott and Bruce have pressed the Lib Dem self destruct button. Labour will do likewise. If lying is a no go area, their whole campaign will be reduced to SNP Bad.
Just the Tories to undermine, but Mundell could help us there and let’s keep Ruthie on the defensive regarding postal vote sampling and of course her election tweets inferring bullying at Annan polling station.
It’s about time the tables were turned.
Let yous know how I get on.
Any other suggestions please feel free to share with us all.
Dont put ideas in unionist heads. Next thing they’ll be comparing this fund raiser to the Dreyfus Affair. Christ knows they’ve tried everything else to defend the corrupt buffoon.
If they make second class citizens of Scottish MP’s they do not need to do much more. Together with a Scotland bill which is going to actively damage our interests their job is done and we are up the proverbial.
We need to get out of this union NOW!
@ Julian, 1:51pm
Hi Julian and welcome (I think this is the first time you have posted).
You’ve got it, this is important for people everywhere and it is why so many on Wings will support funding. This site is one of several now which challenges MSM, politicians, etc., to do their jobs.
Because of the interest awakened in politics and governance, in no short measure by the independence referendum, people are realising that we don’t have to meekly put up with whatever hypocrisy, corruption or lies are served up to us and ordinary people are finding ways to put pressure on government and hold politicians to account.
The box is open, but, we aren’t going back in.
@Julian
Would just like to add my support to that of Betty and others. It will take time but the message is getting through. This website is in no way anti-English nor pro SNP.
It is anti-establishment as for too long they have taken the electorate for granted. Please keep posting as I have a feeling your posts will be worth reading.
Slàinte!
Just watched part of the debate on Trident
Shocking was the fact that hardly any MP’s bothered to turn up, that is apart from the 56 SNP MP’s. Made a very very striking image
Shocking that the UK government just had a Defence Minister take part and she was all about fobbing the SNP off with utter bilge
Hope the image of the debate goes viral, will tell all to everyone about how the Westminster parliament cares about Scotland and Trident
There was not many on the Labour benches either
UK Government didn’t provide any answers, disgusting
I couldn’t agree more with the last sentence of Stu’s article. Am sure someone, possibly Salmond?, said at the time that the real winners of IndyRef were the people of Scotland. Regardless of the result, we are now aware, engaged and not only willing but now very capable of taking matters into our own hands to effect change. There are, of course, still some who hold to the old ways of believing and doing what they’re told – but for the most part, the Scots electorate is the epitome of the lion who roars. Mess with us at your peril!
I too have donated to the crowdfunder and will do so again if need be. I am so proud to be Scots when I see the community pull together like this. Well done everyone!
And, as a final aside, neither Wings, nor Independence and certainly not Scottish Nationalism has anything whatsoever to do with ‘anti-English’ sentiment. It’s about empowering ourselves to make informed, educated, carefully considered choices for ourselves, our country and our future. There’s no negative connotations anywhere!
Edward
What that debate showed crystal clear is the calibre of Alex Salmond and Brendan O’Hara and that the UK gov. better be on their toes because the 56 are watching!
As at 18:43 the total now stands at £40,045
Can anybody tell me how to make a donation to the fighting fund for the case against Carmichael.
Just wanted to welcome new members, as there are some names that look new! And an especially warm welcome and thanks to Julian. It would be lovely to have more English readers and contributors that are looking at how to connect, and see what we are doing.
I know a few SNP MPs have even offered to talk to groups down south about engagement, as I think some genuinely envy the level of engagement.
Tommy Sheppard really impressed the Tory member from Shipley, who praised Tommys maiden speech as accomplished, and no notes, although I’m sure his background helps with that part.
Happy to be British – a geographical description, would not to like to be Yeuckish, Youcainian or Youkayzee.
Hi ronald
Click on the picture at the top of the page and that will take you to the fundraiser page, from there when you choose to donate you will be given a number of options for payment.
Debit or credit card, paypal etc. All the best.
Really impressed by Pete Sheppard’s maiden speech this afternoon. Impassioned but reasoned, to the point with a vengeance, and all without any notes. All the 56 I think, were there, making rather self conscious hear, hears – I was disappointed they did not clap. Great praise from the Speaker and other old-timer MPs who followed.
Interesting how few MPs there were in total this afternoon, and even worse were the numbers in the following adjournment debate on Trident, Had great urge to personally pull one of the subs down to the Thames and leave it there. It really does show how unimportant Scotland is considered. Oil and food sales apart.
Sentiments similar to many already; have donated but will happily top up later if necessary. On the most basic level, I drilled it into my kids, my pupils and now my grandchildren that telling lies is never acceptable – not at any level; what dire role models for our society.
O/T but can we crowdfund a Trident Investigation?
The establishment has been rocked to its foundations.
We must not rest until it has been completely destroyed.
But beware. The Scottish justice system is rotten to the core.
If the people lose this case, another wolf in sheep’s clothing will have been exposed.
Nice one Lollysmum…Re Blair and H Finch :- )
At the risk of probably incurring the wrath of some WOS donors,
i would like to float a suggestion with regards to this O&S campaign.
If, for talk sake, they manage to get their campaign total up to £50K – how about WOS donating the £10K to take them to the £60K?
I don’t know if the Rev has every penny of our record breaking fundraiser earmarked for certain projects but if not and we can afford it, why not!
After-all, if it doesn’t go ahead then an exceptionally worthwhile cause will still benefit.
As i said, just a suggestion.
“Shocking was the fact that hardly any MP’s bothered to turn up, that is apart from the 56 SNP MP’s. Made a very very striking image”
Edward –
I sent the “striking image” to The National and suggested they put it on their front page tomorrow. I have never seen a more powerful argument for Scottish independence.
It will be very interesting to see whether they use it or not. If they don’t I will draw my own conclusions.
Julian,
“I am English. I donated because I am disgusted at the corruption in our political system. This isn’t a Scottish matter but a UK governance one, whatever twits like White and Sir Malcolm Bung say.”
We plebs are in the same boat, in Scotland, England or anywhere else.
Our common enemy is the establishment.
The Scottish plebs have woken up. Let the English plebs do the same – sooner rather than later.
Thomas Hobbes viewed human life as ‘solitary, poore, nasty brutish and short’ which of course it will be for many of the citizens of UKOK as they struggle with each other for scarce resources (unless you are the super-rich).
This fundraiser speaks volumes about the myth of the atomistic person where individuals care only for themselves. We are all profoundly connected to each other- even if the 1% want to shut themselves off from the masses in gated communities- those who believe that there is such as a thing as society do not. This is one legacy of the YES campaign – demanding a seismic shift in our political system that promotes altruism and cooperation. It is now a big deal when politicians lie and fundamentally distort communication to manipulate public opinion- they should all take note.
Like Julian, I am English, living on the South Coast and also contributed to the “The People Versus Carmichael” campaign for very similar reasons.
I watched and read about your referendum last September, with increasing belief that we voters can actually do something against the entrenched system after all, and bring back democracy. It was amazing to visit Scotland, talk with friends over months, and see and feel the fervour that has just kept going.
We may be lagging behind you in our awakening, but it is happening. Good luck to Orkney and Shetland.
Long time lurker – just wanted to post to say fund is now well over £40,000 – to which I made a modest contribution.
Come on folks we can do this – you know we can.
Just seen on FB that the court case is going ahead ( was lodged today ) .
At WM , John Mann Labour stood up and praised the SNP contingent for turning up and got stuck into his own party and the Tories for not attending …
70%
its not the lying that bothered me most. He lied during the referendum didn’t he. It’s the fact he didn’t come clean when it was announce can inquiry would be held. He could have put his hands up then and admitted his involvement and so plead with the electorate to elect him.
He has denied the voters a fair election but no, instead he lied and cost the country over a million pounds of taxpayers money. Yet nobody is saying we will reimburse that. How many foodbanks would be maintained with that money, how many mouths could be fed.
The libdems will and should be punished for supporting him and his lies and so rightly so.
On the matter of clapping at WM is it a rule or just a tradition.
I think that the 56 should just continue to clap when appropriate and see what happens.
I certainly did not find the clapping on tonight’s QT offensive. I would, however, have been offended if the audience had behaved like the infantile yahoos at WM.
How long is it going to be before somebody gets round to organising a new party in England with a manifesto supporting (apart from Independence)the policies of The SNP & Plaid.Can I suggest calling it The Progressive Alliance
The media have been banging on all week on how this was the 62nd. time The Queen has opened Parliament.
She succeeded her father early in 1952 and this is 2015 so she must have opened it more than 62 times. In addition to the straight subtraction of the above years there were 2 GEs in 1974 each of which presumably was followed by State Openings.
There is normally a State Opening every year after the summer recess – is that the case in years when there is a GE?
@David Clelland,
“He has denied the voters a fair election but no, instead he lied and cost the country over a million pounds of taxpayers money. Yet nobody is saying we will reimburse that. How many foodbanks would be maintained with that money, how many mouths could be fed.”
Add to that the amount of expenditure wasted on all of those LibDem fliers, posters and newspapers shoveled through our letterboxes over the election period and there quite possibly would not be any need for foodbanks.
Scott Finlayson @12.46pm
Since we’re indulging in a little bit of classical Greek – demos kai kratos, it just reminded me that I haven’t seen ” oneironaut” on here for a while. What a stonking moniker; it means dream sailor. Hope he/she hasn’t left the brotherhood.
It strikes me that our English friends like Julian (and I live amongst them) need somehow to set up a grassroots online infrastructure. This site and the many other independence sites and bloggers have got us to where we are. Dissemination of correct information is crucial to the success of any endeavour. Knowledge is power. Protests, marches and sit-ins are just disregarded and fade away. Two million people marched against the Iraq war and look where that got us.
O/T but of profound significance, relating to correct information, cyberspace is buzzing with all the appalling facts regarding who really created IS and who is continuing to fund them. Take a wild guess, folks. All verified info through FOI requests in America. I wrote a long and sourced article about this 3 years ago for a respected online Scottish magazine – they declined to publish it. They also declined to publish an equally well-sourced and linked challenge to the global warming orthodoxy. They published several other pieces and comments from me, but they were the uncontroversial ones. The point I’m making is that the Establishment and the mendacious dross to which it clings, and which it in fact promotes, is just as alive and well in civic Scotland as it is in the rest of the UK. That’s why sites like this are SO important. I for one want to have no part of a country that is complicit in destroying the Middle East and the lives of millions of people, of creating the very terrorist climate that it avows to extirpate and engineers disastrous regime changes for geopolitical advantage.
Back to Carmichael and the serious possibility that civic Scotland somehow exonerates him, hope I’m wrong, but when all else fails I believe there is an age-old custom up in those parts of stuffing people into giant wicker effigies…….just a thought 🙂
gus1940 wrote:
“I think that the 56 should just continue to clap when appropriate and see what happens.”
Aye, with you on that 100%.
_____________
@ majestic12 (11.22am).
Excellent post, enjoyed that, thank you.
Hi majestic12.
You’ll find that MAN Oneironaut posting daily in ‘off-topic’.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Stoker and Brian Doonthetoon,
Thank you both for your input. I never go to “off topic”, but now I will. I’ve probably been missing all the fun.
Irrespective of the result of the court case, if it goes ahead , it will be on the books as a legal precedent,
The people versus Alistair Carmichael MP. Who would want that as their legacy for their political career?
If it succeeds, then he will, either resign, or go for a re- run.
However, if he wins, then this must be used as a catalyst to change the rules, as if my MP ( now SNP MP by the way) lied in such a manner, then under the current rules I would not be able to challenge him in court, as the precedent will have been set if Carmichael wins and stays.
If he does go to court and Carmichael wins , then that is NOT the end of it,as fair minded people will agree that the rules will need to be changed so that we CAN remove such rogue MPs.
.( it is not just about Carmichael, it is wider than that now)
The price we would pay for a Carmichael win is that it may well be that he remains as the sitting ( lame Duck) MP, but either way , going to court will have been worthwhile to know where we stand as voters. If we don’t like it, we can then try and change it.
Thankfully Carmicael is a ‘here today gone tomorrow’ politician who’s pathetic legacy will be to be taken to court by the very people who elected him.