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The panellist and the activist

Posted on April 06, 2016 by

Those of you who read our post of earlier today probably didn’t feel there was anything ambiguous going on in it. When Ruth Davidson intervened in an election debate to protest that the chair, the BBC’s Louise White, was being unfair to Nicola Sturgeon, it was pretty obvious who she meant, and White’s response removed any doubt.

Which makes this eye-witness account of the event, spotted by an alert reader this afternoon, odd in several ways.


Let’s count them up.

Firstly, it’s somewhat curious that ubiquitous TV and newspaper pundit David Torrance chose not to identify Davidson as the “panellist” in question. Only when pressed by another Twitter user did he specify who he meant, and even then professed to be uncertain who she’d been talking about:


Even more strangely, when challenged on the matter today, Torrance said that “in context” it WAS clear who Davidson was referring to.


That’s a bewildering comment to make for someone who was actually in the room watching – how could you possibly interpret the remarks out of context if you saw the entire event live and in person?

But it got even weirder still when Torrance wrote the proceedings up for his new diary column in the Scottish Review.


It’s somewhat uncommon for Mr Torrance to criticise Ruth Davidson at all, but to accuse her of doing so in order to “curry favour with SNP activists” – not something Ms Davidson is noted for – is matched for bizarreness only by the last paragraph’s apparent description of the head of the Scottish Conservatives as a “political activist”.

(It’s not exactly untrue, of course, but it’s an unusual way to describe a leader.)



If you’d asked us before this election campaign started to think of anything more unlikely than David Torrance huffily slagging off Ruth Davidson for attacking the BBC in defence of Nicola Sturgeon, we’d probably have struggled, readers. We do hope it hasn’t peaked too soon.

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  1. 06 04 16 18:57

    The panellist and the activist | Speymouth

356 to “The panellist and the activist”

  1. bob sinclair says:

    There you go, the dangers of coming into contact with a ‘Scottish Resistance’ T Shirt. He’s been assimilated.

  2. Dawn in NL says:

    By political activist, I would say he was referring to the lady in the audience, and not Ruth.

  3. David Wardrope says:

    Can only imagine that dyed in the wool Tory Torrance has had his nose put out of joint by one of his own being a decent human being to someone in SNP.

  4. Colin Church says:

    Scottish review obviously didn’t get the “insert new picture here” memo! Ha Ha.

  5. NeoconNat says:

    The treasonous sycophants in the media and elsewhere have a system that allows them to contort reality, lie, attack, bully, and generally treat the Scottish people like shit — Sturgeon is the Scottish people’s representative and for that reason she is fair game — and that usually plays out without any concern about having to explain themselves.

    There’s nothing unusual about this sort of stuff if you study say America’s role in South & Latin America, the Middle East, or British Empire politics.

    I’m sure nobody wants to hear me bang on about Ruth being principled, and I have no desire to, but I would urge that you take her objection at face value here.

    I’m no longer a member of the Scottish Conservative Party but I’d say the majority of those in it believe in fair play, playing by the rules, and are conscientious, like myself.

  6. galamcennalath says:

    Torrance highlights that the BBC are they main cheerleader for the Union and unofficial opposition to the Scottish Government, and as such, should be completely beyond criticism from any Unionist quarter.

    That’s Davidson telt! The tail shouldn’t try to wag the dog.

  7. dmac57 says:

    How do the likes of Torrance keep track of the new reality they create with every article, diary entry or social media post? Do they keep a second diary, as a factual reference, or simply process what they have written to their long term memory and somehow wipe the truth?
    Either may, it must be incredibly difficult to maintain, never mind trying to recall ‘facts’ in conversation at a later date.

  8. Calum Craig says:

    He doesn’t like you using that Thatcher / Major picture…

  9. HandandShrimp says:

    This is quite an odd campaign all in.

    However, it is clear that breaking ranks on the SNPBad line causes confusion amongst the ranks.

  10. Alex Grant says:

    On Twitter I once accused Torrance of being a Tory and he came back to me denying in and said if I could show two examples of pro Tory comment he’d buy me lunch!
    He’s obviously trying to show his non pro Tory credentials :)!

  11. Croompenstein says:

    Louise White rhymes with shite… 🙂

    David Torrance rhymes with an abhorrence… 🙂

  12. schrodingerscat says:

    lol, on twitter,
    Even Kezia Dugdale had SNP as her first choice.

  13. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT but on the news right now apparently too much money spent on the Stay campaign – leaving the leave campaign struggling with funds.

    Now where has that happened before eh??

    No-one seems to remember . Last time it happened according to ITN, it had something to do with Harold Wilson – dearie me !

  14. Dorothy Devine says:

    Anyone seen the Greens ppb ?
    Worth a look on the Guardian site – really dreadful!

  15. schrodingerscat says:

    being a life long snp member and yes supporter, fairplay is only a pipe dream amongst us, it is never has been or is going to be as far as we are concerned.

    difficult to feel anything else but contempt for those who support organisations who promote their campaign as project fear.

  16. FairFerfochen says:

    @Colin Church

    Yeah, but have they cropped that tank-top?
    A crop-top.

    I feel cheated..

  17. jimnarlene says:

    Quixotic eh? I think Mr Torrance has a bit of Don Quixote, in his own mind. Shouting at windmills, and talking nonsense, only to serve his own ego and bank balance.

  18. Illy says:

    That was probably the best applause Ruthie got the whole time too…

    I’m personally surprised the media isn’t going with the “SNP supporters give massive applause to Ruth Davidson” spin, instead.

  19. Legerwood says:

    It must have been a strange evening at this LGBT debate for Ms Dugdale knowing, as she did, that the next day the interview in which she announced her relationship with a woman was going to be published.

  20. Grouse Beater says:

    Anything to declare Mr Shill?:

  21. shiregirl says:

    Nyaff. And an irrelevant.

    Me thinks he likes the sound of his own voice and looking at his own publicity.

    He annoys me.

  22. heedtracker says:

    The only thing offensive, or continues to offend, is being compelled to pay for the BBC and BBC Scotland by law. BBC is merely Daily Telegraph tv and radio and that would all be fine, if I didn’t have to pay for it. Because that is what freedom of speech is all about.

  23. yesindyref2 says:

    What a twonk. Not one of his best days.

    That first photo somehow reminds me of John Major’s “Family Values” for some odd unaccountable reason.

  24. Robert Roddick says:

    This was a clear attempt by Torrance to deny the facts to which he was a witness. Would anyone like to call this guy as a witness in their defence?

  25. broonpot says:

    I don’t think the campaign has peaked. However (Mr)Torrance has obviously peaked (& climaxed?), is now entering his dotage and hopefully eventual decline evidenced by his new(?) diary column.

    I feel sure that by scribbling for and being edited by the wicked whinge of the west his ‘slugs’ will mutate into the angry old man rantings so typical of the anti-independence Scottish rag (Review) which continues to masquerade as a vehicle for the literati allegedly ‘to stimulate discussion and revitalisation of thought and debate in Scotland’ (cough, cough)

  26. mealer says:

    David Torrance.Theres a wrongness about him.

  27. G. Campbell says:

    Kenneth Roy, SNPBad Review, even worse than usual:

    “Within a few days, Nicola Sturgeon’s complacency about the nature of Scottish society was brutally exposed by a succession of disturbing events. A Glasgow Muslim, Asad Shah, who had posted an Easter message of love and reconcilation, died in hospital after being attacked outside his shop.”

    Attacked by a man from the Scottish city of Bradford.

    “What is less often reported is that, in an ethnic minority population estimated at 850,000, by far the largest minority – 417,000 – is officially classified as ‘White Other British’ and that the White Other Brits are overwhelmingly English. If we exclude them, Scotland’s multi-cultural society seems to amount to 433,000 people, only 8% of the total population.”

    Shocking statistics. Westminster’s immigration policy fails Scotland yet again.

    “By comparison, England is a model of cultural diversity. Its population includes around 1.4 million people of Indian ethnicity and around 1.1 million Pakistani. These facts suggest that the first minister was wrong to single out Scotland as ‘a diverse multi-cultural society’ as if it had some special claim to the status.

    Nicola: “Its a nice sunny day, isn’t it?”

    Yoons: “How dare Nicola suggest the sun only shines in Scotland.”

    “Uncomfortably from Ms Sturgeon’s perspective, it is in the first minister’s own constituency on Glasgow’s south side that racial tensions are most pronounced. Govanhill, where several thousand Slovak Roma are living in congested tenement flats with limited access to benefits and little understanding of basic English, has become a notorious ghetto of social deprivation and increasingly bitter cultural differences. “

    Benefits = Westminster. Tenements = Labour-run Glasgow City Council.

    “Scotland’s chief statistician has issued a set of little-noticed figures which show that, in referendum year, ‘White British’ people were the most common ethnic group to be targeted in racist incidents in Scotland – 1,423 such incidents were recorded in 2014, an increase of 284 on the previous year, compared with 1,107 cases of racism directed at the Pakistani community.”

    Kenneth Roy had a dig at the English for rejecting Gordon Brown on BBC Two’s Scotland 2014 on December the 1st of that year. There was an eye-rolling look of ‘what are they like’ as he said it. Fair shocked me it did. You wouldn’t see that sort of anti-English/anti-White British thing from our Nicola. She’s much better than that. Anyway, I’ve still got the video on a hard drive if Kenneth is thinking of suing.

  28. Frances says:

    Mr Torrance refers to L White Media.

    Louise White is not therefore at these hustings as a BBC employee.

    It may be that Ms White is not a BBC employee at all but a private individual (company) brought in by the BBC (don’t know as I do not listen) – hence the attack on Ruth Davidson and on anyone complaining about “The Rangers”.

    Who is Ms White?

  29. NeoconNat at 6.17

    An interesting post with a bit of truth in it. The old Scottish Tory bore no resemblance to the party in government in London now
    – which is why there are not a lot of Tories left in Scotland.

    Murdo Fraser had it nearly right. Pity he didn’t have the balls to follow his intuition to its logical conclusion.
    Though I could never vote Tory I could live with a Scottish Tory party seeking power from the Scottish people and answering to them.

  30. Breeks says:

    Just in, and catching up, but this just oozes deliberate setup.

    I think a penny has dropped somewhere down in London that the BBC Propaganda is damaged goods, and if a Better Together nose-bag points it out, they can all sit back and cluck about their integrity and even handed commentary.

    The BBC pedals damaged goods. They know it. We know it. They know we know it.

    Don’t trust a Davidson Tory, she’s one of the worst at butting in to screech some point or other and talk over someone else’s answer. She suddenly develops a caring personality and moral ethics? Nice try Ruthie, but no sale. Not buying anything you’re selling.

    This all just stinks of gamesmanship and posturing for effect. The tone in the voices just reeks of insincerity and a lack of spontaneity. Somebody is playing games.

  31. Could we leave the hapless Kezia alone? Some people are beginning to sympathise with her and feel sorry for her which is no use to us

  32. Gary45% says:

    There was an arsehole named Torrance,
    Who’s opinion of the SNP was abhorrent,
    He thought he was slick, but was a bit if a prick,
    That sums up the arsehole called Torrance.

    April the eighth is a very special date,
    When everyone should do a jig in public,
    If by chance you do the Thatcher’s dead dance,
    You’ll piss off the arsehole called Torrance.


  33. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    The strange thing about Torrance and Kezia is that both their dads are SNP activists.

    “Although I was an apolitical 10-year-old rather than a political obsessive, the impression I retain of leafleting and poster-pasting with my Nationalist father was of hope trying very hard to triumph over experience. ”


    I think Torrance’s dad also stood for the SNP in council elections – not sure if he ever won. perhaps that is why Torrance is so emotionally damaged?

    Apparently his dad is still going strong and occasionally works as the Barman in the SNP club in Edinburgh.

    It is a funny old world.

  34. Tam Jardine says:

    David Torrance wrote a book on Thatcher and her ‘relationship’ with Scotland, another on the secretary of states for Scotland and yet another on his hero George Younger.

    I have not heard if he is planning to revise any of these after the revelations that the treasury wiped millions year after year from the Scottish block grant in invisible cuts throughout the eighties unknown to the public.

    I think the fact that the Barnett Formula was effectively cancelled during the mid eighties during a sustained campaign by the treasury to reduce Scottish provision again, unreported and unknown to the public would bring a fresh perspective for David’s work.

    The collusion of George Younger in these cuts, the treasury’s plan to cut still further by carrying out a new Needs Based Assessment and his eventual exasperation, anger and disillusionment in yet further cuts planned during peak oil and at a time the Scottish block grant was nosediving in relation to all other parts of the UK…. I think this could give David material to revise his now outdated and inaccurate editions.

    I don’t think a book on the Secretary of States for Scotland is complete without reference to George Younger’s fine demolition of the treasury’s stat based ‘subsidy junckie’ none-sense. Or Malcolm Rifkind, new to the job writing a letter bewildered at the level of concessions given up by his predecessor and concerned that the tories would be finished in Scotland if Scotland woke up to the fact it was being systematically crippled by growth sapping cuts at a time England local authorities spending was rocketing and the UK was being propped up by that messy black Scotland region stuff.

    Or maybe he’s done with the 80s. Or maybe he is working on this all as we speak. Anyway David… if you want a pithy and brutal epilogue for the next editions, you know where to find me.

  35. Derick fae Yell says:

    Anent political activists (tenuous link alert), there are some rum goings on up north

    Chairman John of the rabidly Unionist ‘Wir Shetland’ has emerged from his Arrochar lair to lay into one of the three Independent Councillors who initially supported their group.

    Her crime: to ask how the decision of the supposedly non-party grouping to support Tavish Scott was arrived at. Not by a vote of the membership, clearly.

    They have supported Tavish because to stand their own candidate would expose the true level of support they enjoy. <5% I suspect, being generous. Smell that astroturf.

  36. jimnarlene says:

    @ Tam Jardine,

    I’m originally from Ayr, and we called our local MP of the day George Disappointed Younger; as whenever he was being interviewed on a factory shut down, or other job losses, he was always disappointed.

    How the hell he can be a hero, to anyone excepting his family, I can’t fathom.

  37. Marcia says:

    I believe Mr Torrance now lives in Hackney where I lived once. I can publically announce there is no connection between me and the diminutive reporter.

  38. Tam Jardine says:


    I will confess- I haven’t read any of David’s work aside from some of his pieces in the herald when long ago I used to buy the paper and a few of his guardian columns now. So maybe ‘hero’ is the wrong phrase in this context, but David describes his “A Life well Lived” so:

    “Above all, it charts a fascinating and varied life of committed service to Scotland and the UK.”

    Surely in the context of Thatcher’s reign in the 1980 the measure for a department head would be to avoid their department being the one stigmatised, cut again and again whilst being simultaneously asset stripped and milked of her wealth.

    In that context George Younger can hardly be considered a success in serving both Scotland and the UK. He served the treasury.

  39. Bruce Hosie says:

    I stopped reading the Scottish Review a long time back when Kenneth Roy suddenly got very tiresome, add in Torrance and it is probably not worth the hassle any more to make the effort. The hatred of the SNP and NS is just so boring and petty, they just hate that many Scottish voters just will not be told what to think anymore so they use every tool (Torrance/BBCScotland) to spread their hate.

  40. Robert Louis says:

    David Torrance, in my opinion, is not especially talented at writing. Seriously. There are many other political commentators of all persuasions who write with greater depth, sincerity and understanding than this Torrance bloke, and none of them pretends to be Salmond’s biographer. Lightweight might be a good word.

    To express confusion, as he did, at such a simple to understand event, demonstrates my point exactly.

  41. ArtyHetty says:

    So Ruthie tank commander mustered applause from the audience for standing up to the nasty bbc.
    I wonder, did she get applause for anything else she said on the programme? How about, prescriptions charges, applause, tuition fees, yeh!!

    What an amazing, caring, thoughtful politician, we have been wrong about her being a heartless tory all along, awwww. Aye right.

    I agree with other comments on this whole episode appearing a tad orchestrated fir the benefit of Ruthie and the ebc.

    Never, ever trust a tory, blue, red, or yellow.

  42. ArtyHetty says:

    Yes I know, the programme was about lgbt, but I do wonder if RD would have been awarded such applause had she not feigned such concern for NS,

    Re, Bruce Hosie.
    Yep I used to read the Scottish review but ditched it years ago, far too narrow minded.

  43. Provost Sludden says:

    The BBC are the Unionists last chance and must be protected at all costs.

    There was an item on the One Show this evening about the new Forth Crossing which the presenters, aided by rabid BritNat Ian Hislop, managed to turn the whole story into an attack on the Scottish Government for not using enough British Steel in tne construction.

  44. Thepnr says:

    David Torrence is an asset to the Yes movement, if you need to persuade someone of media bias just ask them to read a Torrence article then direct them here (or elsewhere) to show them the truth.

    It’s inconceivable that a journalist who actually attended an event can be confused by what he witnessed such as is reported here. Of course he knew exactly what happened and has just chosen to put his own spin on that.

    Anybody that can pose for a picture flanked by Milk Snatcher Thatcher and Grey Man Major can’t be all bad.

    Just a tad misguided his mum and dad might say.

  45. snode1965 says:

    No one detests the BBC more than me, but credit where it’s due. I have just watched the final episode in a series called Scotland; the promised land, and credit where it’s due….this series is an absolute marvel. A must watch for all Wingers.

  46. heedtracker says:

    Toryboy Torrance will like this next full on Sturgeon monstering from rancid The Graun very UKOK much. Must be an election soon. Hope to god this savaging from yoonster tory media doesn’t work.

    “Nicola Sturgeon denies knowledge of allegations in row over” anything the UKOK creep show can think of:D

  47. mealer says:

    G.Campbell 8.04
    Who is Kenneth Roy?

  48. Ghillie says:

    My first impression was that Ruth Davidison was in ‘right on’ mode with the audience about equality and fair treatment. But that is maybe an unfair assessment.

    Remember a while back Nicola Sturgeon, quite rightly, stuck up for Ruth Davidson when she was subject to some nasty comments and maybe that decency imformed Ruth’s intervention this time. (Though Ruth has stuck the knife in plenty times before when she should have known better!)

    As for Torrance, he’s just a nasty wee nyaff which explains all of his dismal behaviour. And Mistress White falls into that category too.

  49. mealer says:

    Snode1965 10.10pm
    Aye,cracking programme.

  50. Ghillie says:

    The BBC?

    Gutter media.

    Time it was flushed away.

  51. geeo says:

    Slow news day…?

    12 minutes of american election pish, now its Natalie bennett telling us that Scotland should not be bounced into a 2nd indyref if there is a Brexit !!

    Then she says Scottish greens are PRO indy and it is up to the Scottish people when there is another referendum !!!!!

    Emm….SCOTLAND tonight ffs !!

    Coming up after the news, how will ‘rangers’ being ‘back’ in the prem league affect Scottish football…..!

    Give me strength ffs !!

  52. Macart says:


    Mr Torrance offering a masterclass in disingenuous mincespeak. What a spot the poor fella found himself in. Criticize Ruth and defend the unimpeachable BBC, or plead pure hazy ignorance of the entire event and remain true to his political heroes?

    Such a card that Torrance. 😀 LOL

  53. Tackety Beets says:

    Torrence must know he is on our /Rev’s radar so why does he feel it appropriate to pedal his p&$h ? ah yes cause, like the majority of the BUM ,its what they have done for so long they cannae help themselves.

    Why change a habit of a lifetime.

    Kez & SNP connection ,many have posted about it on Wings over the years,its not news , is it ?

    Did we have all this faf when Hearts went up last year @LWhitemedia

  54. Valerie says:

    Nice collection of snaps there, of red and blue Tories. All that’s missing is one of Savile in there.

    It must be hard to keep tabs on who you are shouting baaaad at these days in the media, but you always have to expect the unexpected.

    I can understand Mr Torrance wetting his pants when the natural order of the world, is turned on its head, and a Tory does something like mention fairness towards a member of SNP.
    (Even if I think it was a cynical move by Davidson)

    A horrible atmosphere, a bad smell, fair put a downer on an evening of SNP baaaad.

  55. TD says:

    Sorry – just posted this on the last thread in error.

    O/T, but did anyone see Kez on EBC RS tonight? Talking about APD she said:
    “This is a regressive tax. The more wealthy you are the more you benefit from Air Passenger Duty. The wealthiest in Scotland benefit from around £73 a year……”

    As always, she has confused the hell out of me. My questions for her are:

    If APD is regressive, surely you should want to get rid of it?

    In what way do the wealthy benefit from APD to the tune of £73 a year?

    Did you mean to say “Cutting APD is a regressive thing to do. The more wealthy you are the more you benefit from cuts to APD. The wealthiest in Scotland will benefit by around £73 a year if it is cut”? (That at least would be coherent, if misguided.)

    What muddled thinking are you going to entertain us with tomorrow?

    I haven’t been able to take Kez seriously for a while, but it’s getting really embarrassing now.

  56. Rock says:

    Is Newsnet Scotland still paying this twat to write articles?

  57. Rock says:


    “Don’t trust a Davidson Tory, she’s one of the worst at butting in to screech some point or other and talk over someone else’s answer. She suddenly develops a caring personality and moral ethics? Nice try Ruthie, but no sale. Not buying anything you’re selling.”

    Davidson is the most disgusting and dishonest politicial in Scotland, in my view.

    Her every move is calculated for her own benefit.

    She did not do it for Nicola.

  58. Dan Huil says:

    Aye, I agree with all the bbc-being-as-usual-sickenly-britnat-biased posts but folks that is going to continue until we actually do something about it.

    If you truly believe in an independent Scotland do not pay the britnat bbc licence tax.

    Honestly, it doesn’t hurt to cancel the DD. And the consequences, so-called, are nothing compared to the consequences faced by Scotland’s patriots of the past.

  59. mealer says:

    TD 11.10
    Aye.Its got to the stage that you can’t really fathom out what she’s trying to say.And we’re half interested in what she’s got to say.I think the public will have given up on her long before Election Day.

  60. Clapper57 says:

    Tis the nature of the yoon beast to feign confusion when confronted with reality .

    I am sure had the shoe been on the other foot and Ms Sturgeon had highlighted Ms Davidson being subjected to a more rigorous interrogation then Mr Torrance would have found more clarity in his understanding. In fact I am sure he would have concluded this all by himself prior to any intervention and would also have been oblivious, or rather not mention, to any change in atmosphere.

    We know you are a Tory Mr Torrance and we know how you feel about the SNP so your opinion is tainted and thus disregarded as an objective piece of reporting of the events in this debate.

    Ms Davidson is the leader of your chosen political party Mr Torrance and if you so readily question her motives then perhaps you should also question your own motives to, perhaps tis you who has a hidden agenda .

    SNP x 2

  61. Still Positive. says:

    Kez and APD.

    I am assuming she means the better-off fly more frequently so that is why they will benefit – but I doubt she could articulate it.

    Someone further up the thread made a comment about Torrance’s “skills” as a writer – when I bought the Herald I could barely manage into the second column before giving up.

    As a retired English teacher if any of my S5/6 class had produced the “quality” of Torrance’s ramblings I would have sent it back with ‘ put it in English I can understand and comment on.’

    SNP x 2 and EU In.

  62. Ruby says:

    Scottish LGBTI Hustings

  63. Dr Jim says:

    The Green party’s Natalie Bennett says (read this carefully)
    The SCOTTISH Greens support Independence but we’re “better together” on Europe decision
    It’s up to the SCOTTISH people to decide if they want another Referendum but we’re…… “better together” deciding that

    The SCOTTISH Greens NOT the Green party !!

    Now she didn’t dance when she slurped out that pile of bilge she just shifted her seating and flicked her eyes from right to left

    They’ll be handing out free weed so nobody notices the 60% Tax policy next….. Which Natalie Bennett never said she supported or not
    Better decide that together eh

    The Green party = Liberal Democrats for people who knit Raffia

  64. Brian McGrath says:

    Rev can we just get a button on the forums that says SNP Bad and be done with it? Cheers

  65. Dr Jim says:

    Willie Rennie shouting his mouth off about SNP dirty tricks on Kezia
    This just in (a rumour at the moment)I’ve just been told Jeff Dugdale says the leak was a Liberal Democrat Councillor

    I’m sure somebody will tell us the facts

    Although to be fair on Kezia so what!! I worked for the British army and Air force on a few occasions (I’m so sorry)

  66. Iain More says:

    Dr Jim says:

    7 April, 2016 at 12:07 am

    “The Green party’s Natalie Bennett says (read this carefully)
    The SCOTTISH Greens support Independence but we’re “better together” on Europe decision
    It’s up to the SCOTTISH people to decide if they want another Referendum but we’re…… “better together” deciding that

    The SCOTTISH Greens NOT the Green party !!

    Now she didn’t dance when she slurped out that pile of bilge she just shifted her seating and flicked her eyes from right to left

    They’ll be handing out free weed so nobody notices the 60% Tax policy next….. Which Natalie Bennett never said she supported or not
    Better decide that together eh

    The Green party = Liberal Democrats for people who knit Raffia”

    The Greens aren’t to be trusted. How to knife the Scottish Greens in the back in the midst of an election campaign. How indeed to sabotage it and the objective of Scottish Indy in one flying visit. The Greens south of the border have form for it. Not lest Caroline Lucas voting with the Tories and great abstainers to water down the Scotland Bill.

    Anybody who follows the Scottish Local Council Election Results will see that the Greens??? are treacherous as hell.

    I seen Natalie Bennett on the box and naturally the presenters let her dig a hole and she jumped right into it.

  67. Iain More says:

    David Torrance is one of the reasons why I stopped funding Newsnet Scotland. He was always a treacherous Brit Nat in my eyes!

  68. yesindyref2 says:

    I’m kind of busy and getting lazy these days, but thanks to a relatively sensible Unionist poster in Herald who quoted a passage I was easily able to find this about the China Railways Group, the GPFG and the Norweigan Council of Ethics.

    Note this well from the report: “At the end of 2013, the GPFG owned shares in CRG worth NOK 306,000,000, equivalent to a 0.47 per cent stake in the company.”

    So the GPFG had already invested in CRG, a relatively small amount of less than £30 million (45 million USD), a drop in the ocean compared to the total fund.

    What they were doing in 2014 was checking out all GPFG investments after the event to see if there was corruption involved in the companies they were investing in.

    They asked questions, including about internal workings of the CRG. If they had had an MOU – a Memorandum Of Understanding – in place with CRG, which included, as in the Scottish Government one, setting up a “Framework of Confidentiality”, then perhaps CRG would have been more willing to answer their questions about matters which would probably be, in any normal company, classsified as “For Internal Use Only” – a fairly low level of congidentiality, but a neccessary one to avoid competitive oversight (basic industrial espionage!!!).

    The SG “Deal” with CRG was no more than setting up an MOU.

  69. Wonder of those photo’s in recent days wher Ruthie was caught, clapping a dog who had an SNP collar on, or the wee boy who had a skateboard with SNP stickers all over the bottom, which looked like she was caught out.

    Could irt be possible that the Establishment was trying to tie the tories to the SNP? In a vain attempt to corrupt people’s thinking of the SNP?

  70. yesindyref2 says:

    @Iain More
    Goes back to October I think, the Greens Conference:

    “We propose a citizens’ initiative so that it is the public who say when they are ready for that question to be put, not political parties carving up a deal behind closed doors.”

    Sounds worrying but as the article says: “The terms and threshold of such a petition have yet to be decided, and a Scottish Green spokesman acknowledged that the policy could also open the door to a rival petition to halt a second referendum.

    Myself as a good idea I’d see it more as an addition to, not a replacement for, the rights of the SG to call a referendum.

  71. Sandy says:

    Derik fae Yell.
    Is Travis Scott the only “gentleman farmer” in Shetland?
    Who looks after his beasts? I always thought it was a 7 day week job.

  72. Sandy says:

    Shame on is all,no mention of “The Declaration”,

  73. jdman says:

    john king says:
    19 November, 2014 at 7:00 pm

    Seasick Dave says
    “And why is she wearing Gordon Brown’s suit?”

    Its not Gordon browns suit,
    its her daddies,
    she’s also got his size 12 brogues on,
    it jist a wee experiment, ken?

    Talk aboot precog…precoc…seein the future!

  74. Ken500 says:

    Westminster is run by a bunch of corrupt, tax evading chancers.Westminster is corrupt wasting £Billions of tax payers money on HS2 and Hinkley Point. The Tory slush fund.

    Westminster corruption costs Scotland £10Billion+ a year on policies the majority do not want. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. The Tories have not protected NHS or cut the debt. They are liars. The Unionists want Scotland to pay more tax for Westminster corruption.

    Scotland has lost £4Billion+ a year in Oil Revenues. 60/80% tax when the price has fallen 75%. Scotland has lost £3Billion? A year in tax evasion. HMRC not fit for purpose. UK tax laws are not enforced. Scotland has lost £1Billion a year on Trident/illegal wars. £1Billion on a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. £4Billion a year on loan repayments it doesn’t borrow and spend. £13Billion a year which could be better spent. Five years = £65Billion which could be better spent.

    Vote SNP. Vote for Independence. No more Tory rule or Westminster lies.

  75. Breeks says:

    @jamesCaithness 1.23am

    Could be on to something James.

    Somebody somewhere wants the Tories and SNP looking chummy so the SNP is damaged by association.

    If you think that’s one for the conspiracy theorists, just remember what Fibber Carmichael the LibDem Bruiser was actually fibbing about; Nicola Sturgeon’s secret sympathy for the Tories.

    I don’t trust the BBC on anything, on any level. They are our enemy.

  76. Red Blue and Yellow Tory ‘Transformational’ (it has replaced ‘hard working Families’ in the spin doctors’ line to take briefing for all Hues of Right Wingism)policy is:-
    ‘What this country needs is a good war’.

    Torrance will not jeopardise his appearance money from the Beeb…Even if it means being ‘confused’ about wee Ruth’s momentary bout of contrived Fair Playness.

    She’ll be back to her paper waving heckling self for the next Unionist Media Leaders’ debate.

  77. Another Union Dividend says:

    When someone exposes Ms Dugdale as Fi Fi, a former daily Scotsman online troll, will po faced willie rennie report it to the information commissioner ?

    Dugdale is now claiming she can’t remember applying for a job with the SNP before she joined the Labour Party after getting one from George Foulkes.

  78. Nana says:


    Have read a lot re the panama papers leak over the last few days, too many to post. I see a pattern emerging with the media being selective in what they choose to reveal.

    This is an excellent summary

  79. ScottieDog says:

    Thanks for that. There is a good take on it on this week’s keiser report too..

  80. Bill says:

    Ruth is just plain envious of Nicola for being interrogated as FM. Ruth was only spitting her dummy out at not being centre of attention.

    As for Torrence he’s only interested in himself. A self appointed and promoted weasel.

  81. Bill says:


    Re Panama Papers – it’s all here

    No need to be drip fed by the media.

  82. Almannysbunnet says:

    As we all know North Sea oil is outwith the remit of the Scottish government. Nexen petroleum are a major player around the world. They were a company that morphed from the Canadian arm of Occidental into CanOxxy then Nexen.
    In the NSea Nexen petroleum operate the Buzzard and Golden Eagle fields, 80 miles off Aberdeen and the first and second largest oil discoveries in the past twenty years.
    In 2014 CNOOC, China National Offshore Oil Corporation purchased Nexen for over $15 billion. CNOOC is the government owned company operating under the supervision of the State Council of the People’s Republic of China. Large parts of the Norths Sea are now Nationalized just not British nationalized.

    Can’t remember any indignation from any political party or newspaper about this state of affairs which happened during the Con/Libs reign.
    I’m surprised Willie, Ruth and whoever was Slab leader at the time, weren’t indignant. Away with your SNP “secret Chinese deal”, hypocrites.

  83. Almannysbunnet says:

    Louise White is having a go at Nicola, full on SNP bad. Ruthie and the others are standing mute like the impotent “leaders” they are.

    Ruthie with tears in her eyes jumps in to defend poor wee Nicola. Mmmm.
    Alternatively, Ruthie is really saying “what about meee, meee, over here Louise.”
    I know which one I believe.

  84. Robert Kerr says:

    O/T re Panama Papers.

    SLAB confidential by my drinking buddy Joe last night as a parting shot..

    Alex Salmond is one of the guilty ones listed! I’ve to mark these words!


    Joe considers AS as the AntiChrist personified!

    Desperate times indeed.


  85. Free Scotland says:

    This was the tank commander’s way of pretending to have great respect for voters who are straight, because, let’s face it, there are millions of voters out there who have more important things to think about than the over-sensitive souls who get all miffed if anyone treads on the toes of an L or a G or a B or a T or an I.

  86. Macart says:


    Mr Margrain ain’t far wrong Nana. A good link and worth a read.

    Hits the nail on the head vis a vis the complicity of the media fer sure. The corruption and hypocrisy is systemic and IMO that graph highlighting the home countries and involvement of their financial services says it all. Right after Hong Kong sits the UK.

    Who knew?

    Personally, I reckon the Icelanders may have the right idea. Hound the two faced, thieving, hypocritical b******ds out of office. Or perhaps we could simply opt for an independent parly of our own and tighten the leash on our politicians.

    Either works for me. 🙂

  87. Almannysbunnet says:

    David Torrance is like the football manager being interviewed after the game.

    “David what do you think of Ruth intervening to support Nicola?”

    “Is that what happened? I was too far away from the action to see. I’ll need to have a look at the replay. If that’s what did happen then I’ve got to say it should be left up to referee Louise to sort out. They have a hard enough job under enormous pressure. It’s easy for pundits like Campbell, with their slow motion replays to catch these sort of things. In real time in the heat of the battle it’s much more difficult.”

  88. Tinto Chiel says:

    Still Positive. says:
    Kez and APD.

    Can she not just get pills for it like everybody else?

  89. Almannysbunnet says:

    @Free Scotland says:
    7 April, 2016 at 9:01 am

    Speed reading can be fraught with danger. I read the end of your post as
    Lora Gora Bora Tora. I like it 🙂

  90. Philip Maughan says:

    Louise White’s defence that she was more interrogative with NS because her party had been in power for 9 years doesn’t stack up. Ruth Davidson’s party has been in power in the UK for 5 years so the Conservative Party’s UK policies (austerity, welfare cuts, benefit cuts, spare room subsidy) and how they impact on Scotland and what she might/would/could do to ameliorate these measures demand serious interrogation.

  91. Capella says:

    I see him as modelling himself on a 1950s retro preppy style; hence the pullovers and big specs.
    That also explains the attitude that truth is whatever DT says it is. The facts fit the theory and not the other way around.

  92. Breeks says:

    Here’s another awkward thought…

    Ruth Davidson, Unionist Tory, has now done more than any other leader to directly challenge the BBC’s management of political interviews.

    SNP still pleading the 5th Amendment, and yet again, forfeiting the initiative on a defining issue of sovereign importance to forlornly see the matter delegated to an issue between the BBC and the “oh so shocked” aggrieved Tories, with the SNP merely bystanders looking on.

    Off to bang my head against another brick wall…

  93. Dorothy Devine says:

    Almannysbunnet, me an’ a’!

    Still positive,

    ‘ put it in English I can understand and comment on.’

    “and on which I can comment” surely?

  94. Les Wilson says:

    Another tactic by Louise, was asking questions from the audience, where she pointed out someone, to hear what they had to say.

    Funny enough, a lot were anti SNP. She would allow their waffle and then swiftly move on to the next one. Does here ear piece tell her who to ask a question from, that would seem logical.
    Ie, ” You there in the top row with the blue jacket” (example)

    They seem specially selected to me.

    At various times this throws up anti SNP retoric, without the opportunity of letting them defend against the comment.

    This is a BBC tactic, seen many many times. Louise seems very happy to use it. Cram as many SNP bad comments in to create a negative impression while not allowing SNP answers to these comments. Job done.

  95. Whatever Ruth Davidson’s agenda may or may not have been for pulling up the BBC’s Louise White’s hostile over her hostile questioning of Nicola Sturgeon.

    Does anyone seriously expect to see factual reports from unionists such as David Torrance on what happened in a public meeting?

  96. Nana says:


    I replied and it has disappeared. Not the first time I have tried to link to the true independence website so I blame it for the loss of my post.

    Anyhow the gist was I agree with you entirely, it is by far the best blog I have read [so far]

    I am proud of the Icelandic people for standing up and shouting enough is enough. The best pic I saw of the protests was an elderly lady with a catapult! Oh to ne that brave and to have the strength to use one.

    Last year I linked to Gordon Bowden’s expose of all the fraudulent boiler rooms, shell companies etc. Don’t have time right now to link directly but for anyone interested just type Gordon Bowden into Google and off you go.

    I’m away now to order the wood for a guillotine or two, by gods those French knew how to deal with corrupt filth.

  97. Chic McGregor says:

    ob. spoof redtop headline:

    “Top Tory Faces Torrance Of Abuse!”


  98. Ken500 says:

    BP the worse company in economic history. Dudley gets £14Million remuneration Supports the Tory decimation the Scottish Oil sector. 60/80% taxes when the price has fallen 75%. The Russians wanted to put him in jail for fraud.

    Cameron/Osbourne are corrupt fraudsters, Tax evade and sanction and starve the vulnerable to death. Westminster is corrupt. Non Dom tax evaders finance Unionist/Green political Parties.

  99. Big Jock says:

    Breeks – Agree.

    However if anyone in the SNP challenges the BBC. They have the back up of every newspaper and media outlet in the land. They will say they are paranoid control freaks, who want state control like North Korea. Look at the shit that gets thrown at them for merely suggesting broadcasting should be devolved. The fact that Ruth’s challenge was hidden from the public says it all.

  100. heedtracker says:

    BP the worse company in economic history.

    Snatcher Thatcher’s greatest achievement, since her last one. I used to work for them but when Thatcher sold them for peanuts, everyone got given few grand and then made a contractor, on far lower pay, far worse conditions, far worse safety standards. BP are so shite, they considered pies and beans an offshore meal, shit pies too.

    Top dudes became very rich, very sleazy dudes that had no morality whatsoever. Or, classic Thatcherites.

    This degenerate showered his 20 something lover with millions.

    I know guys dead in their graves because of CEO managers like this.

  101. Capella says:

    O/T The last native St Kildan has died. Sad.

  102. call me dave says:

    The accidental MSP leading the labour party.

    “I feel lucky everyday” she says

    “I’m going nowhere ” she says When asked if she will resign after a heavy defeat in the election.

    “The polls are rubbish” she agrees.

    All Deputy Deadwood in the various Herald articles this morning.

    Saw in my ‘left behind’ Record in the café that they have got a long list of SNP representatives who were standing for other parties sometime in the past!

    Another day at the office.

  103. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Nana, as a hewer of wood, I may be of some use in the construction of said Madame.

  104. heedtracker says:

    Another day at the office.

    Rancid The Graun leap to defend UKOK SLab again.

    Did Kezia apply to join the SNP? NO! She cant remember doing that, classic political lie, SNP bad, for saying she did.

    Why rancid The Graun thinks it’s SNP bad to make public that the leader of UKOK unionistas like SLab, wanted to join the SNP, is another teamGB mystery.

    Or just another day at the office for hypocrites and liars that published Snowden and Wiki leaks. Can Guardian crew get any worse before Scotland does shake them off

    G5rr indeed.

    “The Scottish Sun has not disclosed any source for the story or whether its journalists have seen the emails.
    A breach of the Data Protection Act can be a criminal offence if the material has been stolen; otherwise, it is dealt with under civil law, resulting in a fine of up to £500,000.
    John Bowers QC, an employment and data protection law specialist, said Dugdale’s communication would probably be treated as sensitive personal information for the purposes of the act.

  105. Nana says:

    Alan your offer duly noted. Hey we could be onto something here, a mail order kit perhaps.
    Ach maybe with us being so civilised Madame might be too brutal and anyway the blades wouldn’t be sharp enough for those brass necks.

    I know we should bring back the stocks instead, could be a money maker that, one in every town. I would happily chuck rotten veg at the thieving criminal mob.

  106. Capella says:

    @ Nana & Alan
    I’ll take my knitting.

  107. Fred says:

    THe mask slipped, the Green & Unionist Party. SNP2

    An empty taxi drove up & David Torrance stepped out!

  108. Nana says:


    HaHa great stuff, the more the merrier. My friend says she’ll get the party started with a singalong.

    Can’t imagine what she has in mind and having heard her singing it might be her getting pelted with rotten veg!

  109. liz says:

    Re the Panama papers, I think the knives are out for Dave otherwise they establishment would close ranks as they always do.

    Could be because he supports Brexit but maybe the cons want him replaced by Boris?

  110. Nana says:

    O/T links

    No sympathy for liars

    IMF plans new economic crisis before brexit

  111. OT I see the media reporting that Kezia Dugdale is accusing the SNP of ‘dirty tricks’ after a leaked email about her job application she Had “absolutely zero recollection” of making to SNP MSP.

    Is this really a story?

  112. Dorothy Devine says:

    Now folks , are you all aware that Scotland is a tax haven similar to panama?

    Head to the Herald of Drivel and enjoy.

    I’m still trying to work out if we are a tax haven why is HMRC so interested in taking money off my feeble money.

    There is an airse of the first water below the line
    ( actually more than one) on the Herald article – makes me wonder if the paper is doing a Scotsman of past years and writing controversial comment to attract the unwitting.

  113. ScottishPsyche says:

    This supposed leak about Kezia Dugdale is very odd. A leak that was known to most people with even a vague interest in Scottish Politics. I suppose the Sun got nothing out of her personal relationship ‘admission’ so had to go with something else. What could be worse? She is a closet Nat!

    Who does it benefit? Certainly not the SNP who have rightly played it down. Not Kezia Dugdale who was young and appears to have come late to whichever party would have her.

    The one making the most capital appears to be Ruth Davidson – the ‘story’ is broken in MSM by a Murdoch paper. She dismisses the personal aspect giving faux sympathy and pretend empathy for Kez’s situation and then brings it round to the present.

    Is Kezia still a soft Nat, she asks and puts more doubt into people’s heads.Meanwhile The LibDems rage about data protection and try to equate the situation to Carmichael.

    Also people are saying it was a labour MP who leaked it. Is the David Anderson on this forum the MP or just a namesake?

  114. Clapper57 says:


    Marie Rimmer trial on April 29th keep it in your diary , though if you forget then will be widely reported on Reporting Scotland and MSM….if she gets off !!! Another SNP witch hunt in the making I’m sure !!!

  115. Graf Midgehunter says:

    David Torrance is so shallow, condensation would drown him..!

  116. Jack Murphy says:

    OT—maybe not.
    “One Party Dominance” in the Scottish Parliament,through the eyes of the BBC’s James Naughtie,Ruth Davidson,Kezia Dugdale,a bleating Wullie Rennie and lastly John Swinney.

    Mr Naughtie is speaking from the very top of the Cairngorms—-I’m not kidding—-Ruth Davidson was up there,and Mr Naughtie not too far behind her! 🙂

    Only 6 minutes if you can be bothered.

    BBC Radio 4 Today Programme this morning. BBC iPlayer begining at 01:17:03:

  117. Legerwood says:

    Peter McCulloch says:
    7 April, 2016 at 11:47 am
    OT I see the media reporting that Kezia Dugdale is accusing the SNP of ‘dirty tricks’ after a leaked email about her job application she Had “absolutely zero recollection” of making to SNP MSP.

    Is this really a story?””

    Yes, for Labour at least and maybe the LibDems, now that they have managed to spin it as SNP bad for, allegedly, leaking it. If you really wanted to be paranoid then you would imagine a scenario where Labour ‘leaked’ the info so that they could then turn it into an SNP bad story.

    Watching how the story developed yesterday in the Herald on-line does give some support for that take on things. The first article was ‘Kezia amused’. Then Mr Rennie waded in, no doubt trying to show that the SNP were as bad as the LibDems. Then back to Ms Dugdale who had changed from ‘amused’ to ‘dirty tricks’

    Clearly in between times someone had a word in her ear and pointed out what they thought was the potential of this non-story to embarrass the SNP.

    As usual the on-line commentators made mince of the story. Noticed that the Gaurdian did not allow comments on their version of it. No doubt don’d want the sacred facts to get in the way of comment.

    First appeared as

  118. robert esquierdo says:

    You only have to look at the mans choice of neck ties

  119. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Nana
    @Scottie Dog

    Do you,s remember Dominic Strathkhan,& the set up in America.Christene Laguarde had papers supposedly from Switzerland of Tax dodgers, she never reveiled those names after she was appointed to IMF.

    Corruption comes from the Top down.

  120. heedtracker says:

    BBC Radio 4 Today Programme this morning. BBC iPlayer begining at 01:17:03:

    I heard that UKOK henchman on top of a hill too. What is odd reading around BBC’s henchman online, is their complete and utter radio silence on tax fraudsters UKOK style and panama leaks.

    This one in particular is very weirdly mute on such a massive UKOK issue, especially and considering his world famous determination to find out stuff.

  121. David says:

    Does David Torrance get travel expenses from BBC Scotland every time he catches the train from from his home in London to Pacific Quay for an appearance?

    If so, what a waste of (our) money.

  122. Dr Jim says:

    I don’t know why Kezia’s moaning if she feels she’s in the right job then the SNP did her a favour

    To represent the SNP one must demonstrate a commitment to the ideals of the party the SNP must have felt Kezia didn’t show that commitment so off she went to the Labour party who have no commitment to anything and she…

    Fits right in

  123. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Ledgerwood Noo who at SNP HQ would have the time to trawl through 20 yrs of old job applications , a non story, more likely leaked by Kezia herself,she has a knak for putting her foot in sh=%* & slipping.

  124. Proud Cybernat says:

    Regarding leaked information:

    “This is the middle of an election campaign, these things happen.” – Alistair Carmichael

    Now shut up, Willie.

  125. Derick fae Yell says:

    Sandy: 7 April, 2016 at 1:31 am

    The Scotts of Gardie are substantial landowners in Shetland, owning the Island of Noss, parts of the Shetland Mainland, and much of the islands of Bressay and Unst. Tavish’s old dad John Scott was Lord Luteeinant

    They’re likely no that delighted with land reform I guess.

    No idea who looks after the beasts. Suppose you could stop along Gardie House and ask Tavish

  126. Macart says:

    You have wonder at the no voting mentality at this point. How can anyone, and I do mean anyone, fail to see just how anti democratic, self centred and corrupt the UK state system is? Its one massive scandal after another FFS!

    Just what part of the UK government and financial services complicity in this appalling scandal are they mistaking for caring, sharing better togetherness? This is what this state machine does for a living. Its what they are and its all that they are.

    The United Kingdom is basically a lie, a mirage and worse yet, an excuse. Even the peoples of the English regions are considered nothing better than a resource to be tapped.

    Capital cities are expected to have a disproportionate degree of importance and pull in any country on the globe. Makes sense really. They’re traditionally the seat of government for a country after all and where the decisions get made, but what are you when you are not a single country? What are you when the turnover of your state construct is reliant on financial services centred in a single geographic location? What we have, I’d say, is essentially UKPLC, a state machine run like a megacorp which uses an unwritten constitution to control the resources and tax base of the nations and crown protectorates within its charter.

    Like any huge corporate entity, it doesn’t exist to serve its workers, or even its management. No, it exists purely to provide profit and mainly then for the shareholders (see under those and such as those). The peoples of the UK don’t have a government, they have owners and sitting in that big hoose on the Thames, a board of back stabbing directors.

    The theory is, that in a normal country, a government exists to serve the people. In a corporation, the people exist to serve the shareholders. To the shareholder, when profit is threatened for any reason, the people in its care become disposable dontchaknow and there is little or no redress for those affected by corporate decisions.

    In a country, when times are hard for the economy, that’s when a government is supposed to protect the people and if they don’t, or prove incapable? That’s when the democracy part kicks in and the government becomes disposable.

    The time for ‘give devolution one last chance’ is over. Those pricks took our country, our taxes, our resources, even our self respect, poured petrol on it all and struck a match for fun.

    Are we done yet?

  127. I seem to recall that when Alex McLeish was managing Oldco (I await the outrage that my use of the disparaging soubriquet for RFC invokes) and they were going through a ‘sticky patch’, that the Aberdeen support unfurled a banner when Rangers were visiting Pittodrie:

    ‘Come home , Alex. Mission Accomplished’.

    Perhaps such a banner can be furnished by the SNP Communications Wing, now that Kezia has finally stomped the dying embers of Labour in Scotland into the dust:

    ‘Come Home, Kezia. Mission Accomplished.

    Are there no Backroom Senior advisers left in Scottish labour.

    Time for a BBC sponsored ‘Public Speaking’ course, Kezia.

  128. Glamaig says:

    Jack Murphy 12:02
    Mr Naughtie is speaking from the very top of the Cairngorms—-I’m not kidding—-Ruth Davidson was up there,

    WTF do they have to go on a wee jolly up Cairngorm to interview each other.

    Did they claim the funicular ticket on expenses?

    When can we be rid of these arseholes?

  129. ScottieDog says:

    @ronnie anderson
    I had forgotten all about the DSK thing.
    The IMF is up to its neck in all this stuff. An American neo-con establishment run by bankers which needs to be disbanded. The IMF since its inception has led a rapacious campaign against poorer countries, systematically stealing their assets and reigning mystery on populations.

  130. Giving Goose says:

    Derick fae Yell

    I read your link to the story about Wir Shetland.

    To expand a bit, it appears that a not so secret society has been set up with the aim of stopping Scottish Independence.

    I wonder how many more little groups have been set up among local and not so local politicians and the like to prevent the democratic process and preserve the Gravy Train providing the honours that London Rule so generously hands out to it’s supporters (for that is surely what it is always about)?

  131. Proud Cybernat says:

    Received Ruth-the-Mooth’s Regional Survey through the letterbox yesterday.

    Q5) Putting party politics aside and thinking about them as individuals, which of these leaders will best hold the SNP to account in the Scottish Parliament?

    Ruth Davidson
    Kezia Dugdale
    Willie Rennie
    Patrick Harvie

    [As I’m being asked not to think about politics but to choose a political party leader, I’m not too sure who to tick – anyone able to help me?]

    Q6) At the Scottish Parliament election in May you will have two votes. The party you vote for on the regional ballot paper will decide who is elected to hold the SNP to account. Does knowing this make you more or less likely to cast your regional vote for Ruth Davidson?

    More likely to vote for Ruth Davidson
    Less likely to vote for Ruth Davidson
    No difference

    What a slimy bunch the Blue Tories really are. Some people, especially the elderly, in reading that question on Ruth-the-Mooth’s wee survey will surely be given the impression that their second vote must be given to a different party than their first vote. Utterly reprehensible electionering and Davididson should, imo, be reported to the Electoral Commission for this ‘survey’. Disgusting!

  132. heedtracker says:

    Are we done yet?

    Not til there’s nothing left. Nothing much makes sense in Scotland. David Murray made his fortune in steel but he was primarily a steel importer, Japanese steel mainly, cheap, high quality and all of it bought by oil co’s like BP.

    Middle men can get rich beyond avarice, its how the City spivs make it big but during this exact same period on the road to riches, Snatcher Thatcher de-nationalised British Steel, 1988? and within a few years, Ravenscraig is demolished.

    This in a region of teamGB with one of the biggest buyers of steel in world energy. actually the seas around it. We are adults, we stood a watched them do their worst to Scotland. Maybe we deserve everything we UKOK get, from now until we do actually vote Yes and maybe even because of the great pile of The Vow bullshit.

  133. Derick fae Yell says:

    Giving Goose

    Comment yesterday by leading ‘Wir Shetland’ supporter Ian Tinkler on the Shetland times.

    “iantinkler April 6th, 2016 22:30

    Robin Stevenson. You know just how I feel about Nationalism and its supporters. It is clear “Wir Shetland” may lose a few members whom would rather have a nationalist MSP, than suport Tavish in a tactical blocking move.”

  134. Andrew Mclean says:

    I have been reading the rights of man by Thomas Pain, and came across this statement ” The taxes raised in Scotland and Ireland are expended in those countries, and therefore their savings will come out of their own taxes; but if any part be paid into the English exchequer, it might be remitted”

    Looking for the source of this statement I came across the following book. The history of the public revenue of the British Empire by , Sir John Sinclair, 1754-1835, from page 307 he discusses the view of the union with regard to the revenue of Scotland in 1785.

    In this book he destroys shibboleths, now used by the advocates of the union. First the idea now common that Scotland was bankrupt at the time of union due to the failed Darien adventure, this adventure is not even mentioned with regard to the revenue of Scotland.

    Surprisingly he did mention north Briton, but then says “correctly “south Britain when then referring to England, If that stupid Tory MP is to believed then the entire English nation was dissolved as well?

    He states the comparative wealth between Scotland and England was to a great extent identical, however the National debt in England was considerably more. He mentions the proportion of payments each country to the common exchequer, and to the equivalent Scotland was to receive (in return) for subjecting itself to the burdens and debts of England.

    Individual and corporate taxation was higher in England as was accustomed in Scotland, so to get both on an “equal footing” a new land tax was imposed in Scotland.

    Although obviously written from a unionists perspective, the greatest sense is that the Nation of Scotland entered into a agreement with England and that that agreement had its limits.
    ” An independent country like Scotland was entitled to retain even after the union those offices which had been instituted,~ and cannot be objected to. ”

    “As Scotland, though incorporated with England, was to be governed by its own laws, it was necessary to continue the ancient forms of proceedings, and the courts of judicature, to which the people were accustomed. On other terms an Union would not have been practicable. An alteration of ancient and established laws is what hardly any nation will submit to.”

    “In favour of such an Establishment it may be justly contended, that there are certain rights which Scotland can never relinquish, with it retains the smallest vestige of its ancient independence ‘. The crowns and the parliaments of the two countries, it is true, are incorporated, and consequently in a “political sense” the English and Scots are one and the same people ; but in a religious, regal, or individual view, they are perfectly different, and Scotland is as well entitled as England, to different ((ecclehaftie)) establishments, independent courts of justice, and separate boards of revenue.”

    But the best part of all is the love bombing “old school” at the end, Scotland should br pleased to join us the English are artists, philosophers and poets, and statesmen!

  135. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Nana Thanks Nana we have always to look back, to see what unfolds in the future.

  136. Almannysbunnet says:

    @heedtracker says:
    12:19 pm
    This one in particular is very weirdly mute on such a massive UKOK issue, especially and considering his world famous determination to find out stuff.

    My guess is that their are so many establishment bods involved in Panama that they will attempt to sweep it under the table. A bit like “the banks are too big to fail” it’s “everybody does it, it’s legal, it’s tax avoidance not tax evasion”. One is legal one is not. I’ve never understood the difference, the outcome is the same for both, tax is not paid.
    Watched some “expert” being lobbed soft balls by the BBC yesterday, the whitewash has already started, “surely this is so big so massive so much documentation that we will never get to the bottom of it”. This is A Neil’s idea of “the BBC are doing a great job.” Nothing to see here and in other news…..

    Cameron survived dipping his wick in a dead pigs head without barely a mention. He will keep his head down until this blows over. Nobody “at the top” will look into it because their own name might crop up.
    Like FIFA the only way this will be exposed is for the FBI and a USA public prosecutor to become involved. For once I will be shouting USA USA because our own defenders of law and order ably abetted by the corp media will do sweet F.A.

  137. Legerwood says:

    “”ronnie anderson says:
    7 April, 2016 at 12:31 pm
    @ Ledgerwood Noo who at SNP HQ would have the time to trawl through 20 yrs of old job applications , a non story, more likely leaked by Kezia herself,she has a knak for putting her foot in sh=%* & slipping.””

    Exactly. It has been going the rounds for ages. But suddenly Labour are making it a story – and in the ‘SNP-supporting Scottish SUN’ no less according to some reports.

  138. heedtracker says:

    Toryboy Mike Gove raging away there on BBC r4 against blowing over £9 million taxpayers dosh on pro EU “safer and stronger in the EU” leaflets for everyone. You cant invent a bigger bunch of nutters than UKOK tories, red or blue.

  139. G H Graham says:

    David Torrance makes as much sense as “manufacturer withdraws ice skates due to slip hazard”.

  140. heedtracker says:

    My guess is that their are so many establishment bods involved in Panama that they will attempt to sweep it under the table. A bit like “the banks are too big to fail” it’s “everybody does it, it’s legal, it’s tax avoidance not tax evasion”.

    He’s come a long from Paisley!

    He’s just one of thousands of hard core Brit propagandists doing the bidding of our imperial masters.

    Banks were too big to fail and they are STILL to big to fail, here in yew kay land and the US. Bernie Sanders wants to break the banks up so they really are not too big to fail. If Sanders can become President, he really could, so watch him get destroyed by henchman like Brillo and his merry band of BBC liggers, red and blue toryboys to a man.

    Here, the City is too powerful and’s both stuffed with toryboy’s and too weak. Obama got blocked by GOP Congress but if it changes soon, Sanders really is our only hope.

  141. Big Jock says:

    David Torrance Metro Sexual ,self invented intellectual. I have a beard and quirky dress sense. Hey guys I am both eccentric and witty. Contrived does not even come close to describing the vacum that is David Torrance’s personality.

    Too many of these erseholes on the tv nowadays. Same for that other dude on Scotland 2016 who appears with the beard and open neck shirt exposing a jungle of chest hair ….and Cravats! Why are young men dressing themselves as 19th Century spivs…..

  142. Breeks says:

    Big Jock @ 10.22

    I get that Big Jock, but bullying is all about people who don’t know how to stand up for themselves. “Just take your licks and keep your mouth shut or it will only get worse”.

    I’m not suggesting the answer is a bare knuckle fight we can’t win, but I am suggesting that doing nothing is equally damaging. Once that bully knows you won’t fight back… We need to get clever; use some lateral thinking.

    There are any number of ways to fight back. Mr Ponsonby Indyref 2 has taken a stand against the BBC. Professor Robertson has taken a stand against the BBC. Rev Stu has taken a stand. Mustn’t forget Derek Bateman. Michael Greenwell. Chris Cairns. What formal recognition have they recieved, even in minute dose? What practical use has been made of their well documented contributions to the issue? It seems to me these voices have just been left to their fates, and that just doesn’t sit well with me.

    These people are brave and altruistic to take their stand, risk being ostracised by their peers, and each have put a significant part of their lives and reputation on the line; not for personal gain or recognition, but to create tools and instruments others can use and refer to, so the rest of us can be that bit better informed and empowered when we make our stand.

    We can put a stop to bullying, and it can start with a little help from our friends…. but it seems the SNP is too proud to ask.

  143. Proud Cybernat says:

    Q6) At the Scottish Parliament election in May you will have two votes. The party you vote for on the regional ballot paper will decide who is elected to hold the SNP to account. Does knowing this make you more or less likely to cast your regional vote for Ruth Davidson?

    More likely to vote for Ruth Davidson
    Less likely to vote for Ruth Davidson
    No difference

    (BTW – this survey is in Nicola’s seat).

    More accurately, the ‘question’ above will give the impression in people’s heads that their Regional vote can’t be given to the SNP because it is to be used “…to hold the SNP to account”. It is inferred here that the SNP will win the constituency vote thus the impression is given that you can hardly vote SNP with your Regional vote as the SNP can hardly be called upon to hold themselves to account, thereby you can’t give your second vote to the SNP.

    Devious gits. Trying everything they can to prevent the SNP from gaining an overall majority in order, of course, to thwart any hope of InyRef#2.

    Nae chance!

    SNP x 2 It is the only way to be absolutely certain the SNP will achieve an overall majority.

  144. @Legerwood
    7 April, 2016 at 12:05 pm

    I would agree with the point you make that for Labour it would be a story for to spin as SNP bad for, allegedly, leaking it.

    It would be some thing Labour would like people to believe that the SNP are no different from any other political party and will plumb any depths to smear Labour.

    Though I doubt many members of the public would take much interest in Kezia Dugdale having applied 13 years ago for a job with an SNP MSP.

  145. heedtracker says:

    watched BBC Newsnight explain how “our privacy is under threat” because of the Panama Papers.

    20 minutes in.

    Newsnight editor, ex The Graun editor, Nic Robinson BBC politics editor, Laura Keunsberg editor.

    BBC sez Panama whistle blower bad, say all of the above.

  146. heedtracker says:

    Ferocious Sturgeon bad from world famous YESer McWhirter today

    “Could an independent Scotland have become a tax haven? It’s certainly possible. Ireland has: it regularly features in Forbes magazine’s “top 10 tax havens”.

    The Scottish Government might well have argued that the best way to get one over on England was to undercut it on tax: cut air fares, slash corporation taxes, keep income taxes low and watch the money roll in.”

    That “get one over on England” is very McWhirter. I think this dude alone has lied even harder than the great UKOK liars of the Graun.

  147. HandandShrimp says:

    Wonder of those photo’s in recent days wher Ruthie was caught, clapping a dog who had an SNP collar on, or the wee boy who had a skateboard with SNP stickers all over the bottom, which looked like she was caught out.

    Those were genuine events, both happened on Largs Main Street with the SNP stall just a few yards down from the Tory one. The lads with skateboards came and got the stickers from the SNP stall and did it as a spontaneous, good natured prank. The dog (which was huge) was photographed with Ruth first and then came down to our stall and the owner let Ken put a big SNP roundel on the collar for his photo with the dog.

    What Ruth wants is not association with the SNP but to be seen as the only credible opposition to the SNP. The fact that once again there was no Labour or Liberal presence on the day didn’t do her pitch any harm. It suits Ruth that it is a two way fight.

  148. orri says:

    The uneasy feeling he’s having is probably embarrassment which may be unfamiliar to him. He’s a bit like a dog getting skelped for riding a leg.

  149. Big Jock says:

    Breeks – I think it would be a start if the SNP refused to field candidates for programems like Newsnight,when they are out numbered 4/1. Or as in Dundee 70% of the audience had English accents. Lets see the Yoons trying to pick on an empty chair!

    Don’t forget much as I hate Farage and his policies. When he stood up to the BBC on the leaders debate ,he was bullied even more, and then ridiculed for even suggesting there was bias.

    In other words he was treated like a paranoid anti democrat. Same would happen if the SNP did this during a debate. Protest doesn’t always need to be verbal. Vote with your feet!

  150. macbeda says:

    O/T probably

    This panama papers thing is not going to show any real UK problems. A couple of tiddlers will be crucified for the sake of face then nothing. Everything will then be swept under the carpet as usual.

    The Panorama program was a feckin joke. BBC has fallen a long way and is going into free fall into the abyss.

    We need to get all the panama papers out into the public domain and away from the likes of the BBC and the MSM moguls.

    Lets get people anywhere/everywhere investigating.

  151. Giving Goose says:

    Derick fae Yell

    Thanks for that!
    Very illuminating.

  152. I thought I would share this opinion piece that appeared in our local newspapers, East Fife,Fife free Press and Glenrothes Gazette.

    Do sums add up in wealth of nations?
    – Fife Today
    Wednesday 06 April 2016
    Maggie Millar

  153. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    ” At the Scottish Parliament election in May you will have two votes. The party you vote for on the regional ballot paper will decide who is elected to hold the SNP to account.”

    Wow. That is a gross misrepresentation of what the regional vote is!

    It’s not about who you want as opposition, it SHOULD be about choosing the government.

    Does that question contravene some election law? It should.

  154. Paul says:

    RE: Ruthie’s survey leaflets

    Unfortunately, as long established, political parties can lie with impunity on electoral material.
    Political leaflets/billboards/etc. are all exempt from laws which apply to all other types of advertising…

  155. Chic McGregor says:

    @Big Jock


    Don’t know if that was a typo a Freudian or a pun I would be proud of, but it gave me a chuckle. 🙂

  156. ScottishPsyche says:

    As each day passes it seems we live in as weird parallel universe where the BBC and MSM increasingly manipulate and distort the reality to fabricate a world that gives them stories to write about.

    Wtf? Ruth and James Naughtie in the Cairngorms? They are really going all out to get her that 2nd place aren’t they?

    There is no substance whatsoever to that woman.

    I am as concerned as are others about the distortion of the role of the 2nd vote. How can they get away with saying it is for the opposition?

    Vote for whoever you, want but me? Both votes SNP.

  157. call me dave says:

    Work has started on building platforms to exploit the biggest discovery of oil and gas in the North Sea for more than a decade.

    I expect a quote from Lamont or Baillie or Deputy Deadwood even expressing outrage that the steel is not Scottish…any moment now… Aye right, exits stage left!

  158. Dr Jim says:

    You have to hand it to UKIP for a laugh, this morning David Coburn says Holyrood isn’t democratic and alternative voices aren’t allowed
    UKIP opposed the Scottish parliament, they opposed the devolution of powers to Holyrood, they opposed more powers coming to Holyrood, they wanted to abolish the Barnet formula
    and on and on and on

    This afternoon Nigel Farage announces everything at Holyrood’s great and he wants more powers and better stuff and more of everything

    Then Mr Farage says all that other stuff that was said this morning was really said “back in the 90s”

    UKIP should join the Labour Party they both know that they are allowed to say anything and it gets on the news but never gets ridiculed

    Nicola Sturgeon didn’t have her best shoes on today “Disgrace” doesn’t she care how she presents herself to voters “One party domination” “A display of Arrogance”

    This phrase of “We have to hold the government to account”
    why doesn’t that apply to all the lying Bastirts who are not the government who the media actually want to BE the government

    Given the media’s lifeblood is Conflict, Bad news, Propaganda and the distortion of facts to sell a product, and what they print is bad for our mental and physical health, shouldn’t all media come with a government health warning on their content, they could start with no newspapers being allowed in hospital grounds

  159. Big Jock I agree the S.N.P. Should refuse to take part in the bbc programes untill they are assured of,fair play and good manners terms i think the bbc would find hard to deliver decent common courtesy which their interviewers do not seem to have

  160. heedtracker says:

    I expect a quote from Lamont or Baillie or Deputy Deadwood even expressing outrage that the steel is not Scottish…any moment now… Aye right, exits stage left!

    There is NO Scottish steel in the North Sea or Atlantic oil patch. Norwegian sector is exact opposite and while they are taking a hit at the present, there’s a giant Norwegian steel, shipping and rig building industry.

    If you want the blue toryboy version of why there is no Scottish steel offshore Scotland, they explain clearly that it was too expensive, just like now.It’s all tory lies.

    Most North Sea oil installations were built in far east slave wage ship yards and floated back. The few that were built in the yew kay bought Murray steel, imported from Japan and Murray steel also sold Japanese steel for almost all down hole piping, almost all of it.

    Its probably the only reason David Murray’s a right time right place billionaire. One of the ways Murray would treat his steel clients was a day out in Ibrox directors box.

    Was it cheaper to exploit slave wage South Korea or invest in Scotland? Norway never once went to the Far East. They still dont and they have the highest wages in the world, with fair taxation to boot.

    Either way, red and blue tory yoon destruction of Scotland’s steel and shipping industry was merely collator damage, in the then class war raging in England at this time.

    The tory party won.

  161. carjamtic says:

    Correction Factors

    The Oil and Gas Industry will bounce back,in the meantime,if you have a ‘staff job’,you are one of the lucky ones,the ‘corrections’ have been made,now sit tight till OPEC stop the infighting.

    Unionist Politicians will not bounce back,they are actively seeking ‘staff jobs’ on the list for the next Scottish Parliament,the voters will decide how far the ‘corrections’ will go,in the longer term there is no future for them.

    BBC/MSM will not bounce back,new media continues at a pace,exposed as lazy,biased spreaders of state propaganda there is no long term,future for them,they longer have influence/power.

    The BBC/MSM/Unionist Politicians all know this,but have decided in their anger to continue with the same behaviour/process that got them into trouble in the first place,that’s what happen when ‘staffers’ get the boot,lots of screaming.

    Until Independance the fight goes on, remember NS words.

    ‘My conviction that Scotland should be Independant stems from the principles,not of nationality,but of democracy and social justice’

  162. Proud Cybernat says:

    Complaint re Ruth’s dodgy ‘survey’ sent to local govt electoral office who will advise if this ‘survey’ is breaking electoral rules. In which case it will be reported to Police Scotland.

    Keep them on the back foot.

    SNP x 2

  163. Andrew Mclean says:

    Willie Reneie, is it just me that he took absolute delight in farmers not being paid their cap payments on time?
    Also I have heard Kezia and Ruth both mention their respective MP,s but Willie not a word about Carmichael, you would think he’s not a liberal MP, did he do something wrong Willie, that you completely disavowed his existence.? And if you can’t stand by your man, why’d anyone think you could fight for Scotland?

  164. Molly says:


    I read an ,Irish author describe ( not sure if it was the state or the state of Irish msm) as a Truman show/ Hunger Games parody where they ratch it up each day til the people snap !

    This does sound awfully familiar

    By the way S Murphys poem ‘ was it for this ? ‘ should be heard far and wide

  165. Big Jock says:

    Chick can’t take credit it was a slip of the keyburb Kays….all fangers and tums today!

  166. Breeks says:

    Yes Big Jock, but consider how much political capital the Unionists can make from contrived GERS or OBR statistics based upon curious rumours and presumptions by un-named people with extremely dodgy credentials, then compare and contrast that with the political capital the SNP has been able to make from Professor Robertson’s fully documented scrupulous academic research into BBC bias.

    Not withstanding the actual research content and the questions it raises in themselves, it made me very angry indeed to see Professor Robertson hauled in front of the BBC rogues, where he seemed a rather lonely and isolated figure. Where was ANY reciprocal attempt made by the SNP to haul the BBC before a committee to address and explain Professor Robertson’s research? The BBC just snubs Holyrood committees and goes about its business with its nose in the air.

    To lob in another football analogy, Professor Robertson has set up the SNP with an in perfect cross into the box, they are well on side with the goalie off his line, but yet they still don’t go for the shot.

    If not then, then when?

  167. Valerie says:

    @Proud Cybernat, well done. Wonder what they will say, if anything……

    Just noticed Irvine Welsh is on QT tonight, although my blood pressure will be tested as that witch Tory harpy Soubry is on as well. May have to remove any sizeable objects from my immediate grasp.

    On the Kez leak thing. I think someone in Labour has leaked it. Strange someone sat on it until now, when Senior Labour types in London are briefing against her, referring to her clusterfck.

    Her tea’s oot.

  168. Big Jock says:

    Aye Breeks – I know you are right on this. Seems the SNP are still trying to court the floating voters and not frighten the horses. On the other hand does the BBC not damage itself on a daily basis, when even Yoons like Ruth the Truth notice this. Are the SNP allowing the BBC to make an arse of themselves…..

  169. Big Jock says:

    Aye Valerie and the BBC were quick to assume it was the SNP what did it. So they could turn the bad story about Kez into an SNP bad story. The BBC are tying themselves in knots now.

  170. heedtracker says:

    Usual very brutal anti Scotland Herald stuff, Scots and Panama tax dodgers, all rolled into one, the cringing yoontastic gits

    Scotland region v v v bad now.

  171. winifred mccartney says:

    Thanks Ruby for all the links you do for us. I have just watched the LGBTI hustings and I’m afraid I think it has been heavily edited (nothing of woman from audience about questioning of NS, nothing from RD response and nothing from LW in response. I don’t know who edited it but I can guess. A recording from radio scotland was also edited (taking out a part where KD muddled and fluffed explanation about tax) before going on iplayer so I would certainly say you can only trust a very few people.

  172. Chic McGregor says:


    No mention of Scotland here:

    Although the Isle of Man, Ireland and the UK as a whole get a mention.

  173. Proud Cybernat says:

    Reply (below) from Glasgow Council election office re Ruth-the-Mooth’s dodgy election ‘survey’:

    Dear —

    Thank you for your email. The Electoral Registration Officer does not have responsibility for the activities of political parties during elections. I have checked with the website of the Electoral Commission and have copied their advice regarding making a complaint.

    ‘In general, political campaign material in the UK is not regulated, and it is a matter for voters to decide on the basis of such material whether they consider it accurate or not. This includes the design of the material. There is one exception to this, which is making or publishing a false statement of fact in relation to a candidate’s personal character or conduct (not their political views or conduct), unless there are reasonable grounds to believe the statement is true. The Commission does not regulate this rule however, and any allegations should be made to the police.

    The Advertising Standards Authority regulates advertising, but non-broadcast political material whose principal function is to influence voters is exempt from its remit.

    If you feel that the content of the material may constitute a criminal offence, you should contact the police. Every police force has a dedicated Single Point of Contact officer (SPOC), who may be contacted about such allegations.’

    Electoral Registration Office

    Glasgow City Council

    This is a blatant lie Ruth Davidson has propagated in this ‘survey’ with the intent to confuse and deceive elderly and vulnerable voters. And, it seems, there’s bugger all anyone can do about it to call HER to account for these election lies.

    What kind of democracy IS THIS FFS?

  174. CameronB Brodie says:

    I believe Mr Torrance now lives in Hackney

    So it was purely a stroke of good fortune that I met Mr. Torrence at the pre-indyref rally on Carlton Hill and was able to give him my personal assessment of him, face to face.

    For those with long memories, I seems I was correct, then and now. Poor Mr. Torrance appears to be a bit of a intransigent fallacy. (smirk)

  175. ian says:

    Hi Mcart you have made some good points and i can understand your frustration.I think if we are hanging about for the day we hit 60% in favour of independence many of us will be long dead.Unfortunately 30% of our population are rampant unionists and most of the other 20% dont much care.We are working with small margins and probably much like Ireland it will take being independent for a good majority of our population see independence as a good thing.

  176. galamcennalath says:

    ScottishPsyche says:

    “As each day passes it seems we live in as weird parallel universe where the BBC and MSM increasingly manipulate and distort the reality to fabricate a world that gives them stories to write about.”

    There are people out there who believe it.

    When I carry out my SNP duties, I get approached. The profile is always the same – older person, probably Tory and with an angry manner. A scowl which looks permanent.

    They will ask some wild question which is based on a parallel version of the world which they been indoctrinated with. There is never an easy answer, because the question has no basis in my reality. The encounter will leave them vindicated and me feeling frustrated!

    They believe the colonial media where truth is deceit. They have their own set of opinions for which there are no supporting facts, only other opinions. Where do you start with people whose mindset is so far removed?

  177. galamcennalth says:

    Orwell got the date wrong. Not 1984 but 2014. Out by 30years.

  178. Macart says:


    On moving that percentage along a bit.

    The trick ian, isn’t just presenting people with a bewildering array of facts. Most folk can’t take in yards of facts on any given subject or policy, which makes it nigh on impossible to counteract decades of political and media spin. Its about peeling away the layers of spin and misdirection to present people with the reality of a thing. In essence the object is to show them cause and effect and that everyone can grasp.

  179. ronnie anderson says:

    @ galamcennalth

    Both Lab/ Tory/ Libdem/ have people who do this, its engading your time & they know how to play it. Talking to them your not talking to others Job done.

    Mind how you go People.

  180. Ruby says:

    winifred mccartney says:
    7 April, 2016 at 4:07 pm

    Thanks Ruby for all the links you do for us. I have just watched the LGBTI hustings and I’m afraid I think it has been heavily edited (nothing of woman from audience about questioning of NS, nothing from RD response and nothing from LW in response. I don’t know who edited it but I can guess. A recording from radio scotland was also edited (taking out a part where KD muddled and fluffed explanation about tax) before going on iplayer so I would certainly say you can only trust a very few people.

    Ruby replies

    I didn’t watch the video all the way through but it did try to scan through to find the relevant bits and as you say they did appear to be edited out.

    Whoever edited was too late as Wings already had a recording!

    It doesn’t say much for Stonewall! I wonder if it would be worth leaving a comment on their You Tube video!

    You really need to record these event as they are happening to be sure you are getting the truth and not a edited version.

  181. Proud Cybernat says:

    “In essence the object is to show them cause and effect and that everyone can grasp.”

    Like: “Well, Tam. See when you voted No in the referendum, the effect of your No vote resulted in you getting a Tory govt you didn’t vote for, enacting policies you utterly despise.”

  182. Nana says:

    How many folk know about this. Taxpayer keeping the likes of Brown and Blair in comfort for the rest of their lives.
    On top of their glorious golden pensions and security guards. Geez sometimes there are no words

  183. yesindyref2 says:

    @Macart: “The time for ‘give devolution one last chance’ is over.

    Patience mon Brave. For us it was over a long time ago, even when we voted YES to it in the first place – twice. But there are still those who have to be convinced, the devo-maxers, a third of the electorate.

    The road map to Independence that some of the more sensible columnists are on about has been clear since the VOW, and we’re well down the road already. We have a map, and are always looking for short cuts or a clear Expressway across town, meanwhile we’re heading in the right direction and with a full tank of fuel, nibbles, water, sleeping blanket, emergency shovel, knitting and crochet, popcorn, the lot.

    1. The VOW to keep the Devo-maxers optimistic. Tick.
    2. Smith to keep the Devo-maxers optimistic. Tick.
    3. Watered down Smith in the Scotland Act. Tierrrtick.
    4. It becomes clear that Income Tax is a blunt instrument, but the Scottish Government does its best. Tick.
    5. But there are more cuts to come and cuts need to be made. The SG push for more pwoers to be devolved, and 54-56 MPs use opposition day motions to try to get them devolved. Tick.

    6. Westminster says NO, the game’s a bogey, bog off and use what you’ve got already. Tick. Tock.

    7. Referendum, Scotland votes 80% YES, 20% NO to Independence. Tick.

  184. Proud Cybernat says:

    You voted No. Oh look – a Tory government.

    You voted No. Oh look – there goes the North Sea investment.

    You voted No. Oh look – there goes the carbon capture investment.

    You voted No. Oh look – there goes renewable energy investment.

    You voted No. Oh look – there goes HS2 investment in Scotland (but we still get to pay for it in England).

    You voted No. Oh look – your son/daugter/grandweans won’t get a pension.

    You voted No. Oh look – your job’s gone to Croydon.

    You voted No. Oh look – you might be out of Europe.

    Cause and effect. You voted No. Thing is – all of the above is what they told you would happen if you voted YES. It happened anyway when you voted NO.

  185. Ruby says:

    Re Periscope videos.

    It would seem that you can download unedited versions of Periscope videos but only for a 24 hour period.

    Stonewall have probably downloaded the Periscope video and then edited it for some reason???

    The interesting question is why have they edited it and who will benefit from the editing?

    Downloading Periscope videos might be something worth considering should there be any further Periscope broadcasts.

  186. Andrew Mclean says:

    It’s not grievance
    Make no mistake, we wish to start and actively participate in sedition and rebellion, to wrestle our country free from the dictate of Westminster. It is Treason they accuse us of, treason pure and simple, against this blighted union, kept together on lies and blackmail and extortion.

    The union is hanging by a thread, gossamer thin, that’s why the state broadcaster supports London rule.

    Just be thankful its today, until very recently the state apparatus would deal with us very differently.

    Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
    May by thy mighty aid
    Victory bring.
    May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
    Rebellious Scots to crush.
    God save the King.

    (seditious intention is an intention to bring into hatred or contempt, or to excite disaffection against the person of His Majesty, his heirs or successors, or the government and constitution of the United Kingdom.)

    It’s fair to say that describes wings contempt for Westminster quite well!

    1745 Charles Edward Stuart, raises his standard at Glenfinnan, at the start of the ’45 uprising.

    1746 Lord George Murray and Cluny Macpherson (chief of the clan) fell upon the Campbell militia posts in the Braes of Atholl, at the head of Strathtay, and wiped them out. A brilliant feat of arms, it aroused a blaze of Jacobite optimism

    1747 Lord Lovat beheaded on Tower Hill for high treason. He was the last person in Britain to be beheaded

    1747 Proscription Act introduced, banning tartan and the carrying of weapons.

    1773 The “Hector” from Loch Broom, near Ullapool, arrives at Pictou, Nova Scotia, carrying emigrants escaping from the “Clearances”

    1787 Glasgow weavers riot after their wages are cut. Bricks were thrown at magistrates and soldiers who then opened fire on the rioters, resulting in six being killed

    1792 John Paul Jones, naval hero of the American Revolution, died; he was born in Kircudbrightshire in 1747

    1793 Thomas Muir was charged with sedition and sentenced to fourteen years exile in Botany Bay, more than 30 others were also charged at this time,

    1797 “Battle of Tranent” in which a demonstration against conscription under the Militia Act was broken up by the Cinque Ports Dragoons and East Lothian Yeomanry with the death of 12 participants

    1819 The Strathnaver Clearances began on the Sutherland estates – families were given 30 minutes to remove their belongings before their cottages were set on fire.

    1882 Battle of the Braes in which crofters in Skye fought 50 policemen during a dispute over land rights

    1892 Lanarkshire-born James Keir Hardie became the first socialist to win a seat in the UK Parliament, before the precursor of the labour party existed.

    1921 Maclean and Ross were convicted of a contravention of No. 19 of the Emergency Regulations, 1921, namely, causing sedition or disaffection.

    1972 three people were arrested for sedition against the crown, the charge was dropped and they were found guilty of offences against the public order.

    Sedition is no longer a prescribed unlawful act in Scotland from 2011, unless you don’t have a UK passport then it’s still in effect.

    “Rebellious Scots to crush”, In Your Dreams

  187. call me dave says:

    Just read Mr Bateman’s new one worth a keek!

  188. yesindyref2 says:

    The music for this has been running through my head since Smith was announced.

    That’s Cameron on the bomb, and the target is the UK, Osborne doing the wire splicing.

  189. gerry parker says:

    Got an e mail from 38Degrees asking for funding to fight the MSM lies and scare stories, I replied:-

    Now you know what we had to put up with in the Scottish referendum.

    Then when their lies about pensions, currency and borders didn’t work, they came up with the Vow, which they then proceeded to welch on after they got their result.

    (I won’t mention the postal vote turnout at 80%)

    200 amendments to the Scotland bill were voted down despite a very large majority of Scottish MP’s backing them – only 3 Scottish MP’s opposed, a Tory a Labour and a Lib Dem liar.

    Democracy UK style staring you in the face.

    gerry parker

  190. schrodingerscat says:

    is this real?

  191. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Yes, yesindyref2 @ 17:25, you are right on the button: “… there are still those who have to be convinced, the devo-maxers, a third of the electorate.

    Elaine C. Smith very rightly said that it isn’t about “hearts vs minds”, because (as I imagine most posters here long since worked out) a thoroughly rational analysis reveals that devo was never going to be anything like max,. Everything that’s happened since, including the absurd yoony fact-skewing from the likes of Torrance, has only reinforced that critical understanding.

    My guess is that Ruth Davidson’s intervention re Louise White came from an astute realisation that the increasingly-visible anti-SNP rage among the commentariat has become counter-productive.

    All this yoon propaganda is deliberately targeted at the devo-maxers with the intention of holding the line for the Unionists in the election, to prevent the wipeout that they so clearly fear.

    The critical question then is, how to dislodge those that are still desperately clinging to the illusion of “better together” but are not yoony irredentists?

    This psychological dependency is a curious phenomenon, something like the Stockholm Syndrome.

    Hence the importance of such as The Little Black Book, to somehow get through to these people so they become willing to recognise and accept what’s obvious.

  192. Valerie says:

    @Gerry parker

    The junior doctors down south are raging at BBC coverage.

    Wonder how many of them voted Tory? The sad thing is, it’s the ordinary and vulnerable that will suffer again.

    No secret that lots of them are applying to emigrate.

  193. louis.b.argyll says:

    Good comments, to follow after…

    If NO voters would just take a wee look about..

    No, not at your balance sheet…chin up.

    Look out where your your fellow Scots are, the workplace, street, family homes, student flats – and consider security and resilience.

    Now look A WEE BIT into the future and tell me ‘it’s OK’
    Our big UK brother will look after it all and he’ll tell us what to worry about.

    WE need to work together, independent in thought, in law, in reality.

    To place your nations hopes
    in the hands of another..

  194. Andrew McLean says:

    State broadcaster steel cutting celebration in Singapore complete with dragons
    All made possible by tax breaks
    To drilling for massive gas fields in northern sea

    No I didn’t feel better together

  195. North Chiel says:

    Any truth in the rumour that Willie Rennie was this afternoon
    ” snatched” by a condor, and that Paddy& Ming were ” negotiating”
    his release? Has Cameron called a meeting of “cobra”?

  196. galamcennalath says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland, yesindyref2

    I am certain the key to success is to ensure those who still hold out hope of serious devolution realise it will never be given.

    Sheesh, WM and the Unionist parties ensured weak Smith was the outcome of IndyRef1. THEN even that was watered down.

    We are only just getting the powers from Calman. SmithLite to follow in a few more years.

    At every stage over the last few decades WM has handed down the absolute minimum it thinks will keep us quiet for another 5-10 years. How far down the Devo road to DevoMax have we got? … Not half way.

    The message has to be got across to DevoMaxers that they are living a pipe dream. it will never ever happen. In all probability, we may get very little further Devo.

    They have to appreciate that it is DevoNotMuch versus Indy. A simple binary choice.

    We will never convert many hard core BritNats. They will stay bitter till the die off.

    We can convert DevoMaxers. Enough of them, then Indy will happen.

  197. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland
    That’s the battle, but I think it is with hearts and minds. We have to engage with them, understand the caution, accept their concerns, and help them see that perhaps we already have what the Unionist parties describe as “Home Rule” in their eyes and Westminster’s, and aren’t never ever ever ever, getting any more. Like ever.

    And is income tax and half of VAT enough levers to drive our economy, without the balance of all the other taxes and powers?

    Well, is it?

  198. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland and @galamcennalath
    The other thing to remember is that one-third of the electorate wanted the status quo, and that was stable whereas income tax + half of VAT is in quite a few economists opinion, unstable (though they don’t put it in those words). Hence the fiscal framework.

    But the Unionist parties in their panic denied that one-third what they wanted, they didn’t give them the status quo, they gave them an unstable and inadequate settlement.

    That’s also fertile ground.

    We ain’t seen nothing yet.

  199. call me dave says:

    The PM lied on news… shock (which lie was that?).

    Dad’s account was a joint account…we all knew that he’s a tory!

  200. yesindyref2 says:

    @call me dave
    To be honest I hope Cameron gets through it OK, he’s not totally unreasonable. The alternative of Osborne from the point of view of Scotland doesn’t bear thinking of, and Boris, who knows what he might do?

  201. Macart says:


    Couldn’t agree more.

    As I alluded to in my 4.58pm post, I reckon the best way now is to put aside recriminations, arguing ‘facts’, or railing at why folk voted no. I think now its time to patiently and persistently point to cause and effect, the reality beyond the pledges and the campaign rhetoric. We need friends and we need to bring them along with us willingly. There’s 20% of that no vote from 2014 who are there to be convinced. That’s convinced, persuaded, NOT CONSTANTLY SHOUTED AT AND BERATED. 🙂

    As an example we now have, as you pointed out, Westminster’s devolution settlement in the process of delivery. I don’t think we should allow the spads and their meeja the chance to dress it as anything other than what it actually is. As far as Westminster is concerned that’s their best devolution offer, business concluded.

    Time to put that ‘delivery’ to the test.

    Our turn.

    Great flic by the by and the countdown analogy … 🙂

  202. yesindyref2 says:

    I remember when I watched the film, and the music kind of hesitiates, then goes and just keeps going. It was obvious then the bomb was going to get dropped.

    Back in the 70s they tried out subliminal advertising and it was banned. But music is both subliminal and subversive.

  203. K1 says:

    As call me dave linked…this piece by Derek Bateman is a stoater, wee taster:

    ‘I don’t just enjoy other voices and views, I used to make a living arguing to get them on air and debating with them. But the skewed nature of Scotland’s media today is a disservice to our democracy. I don’t want the SNP ‘making programmes’ or running a national broadcaster. I want the BBC to do what it was set up to do – to represent ALL of Scotland and reflect our country back to the Scots. If the papers don’t hire people able to do that, then it isn’t good enough for the BBC which takes our money only to reflect the one-sided view of the press. It should be searching for people who can at least articulate why, despite doubts about aspects of policy, they think so many of our people do continue to back the SNP.’

  204. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. the UKOK corporate media’s selective comment on the Panama affair. Could it be due to businesses located in the Corporation of the City of London, appearing to be central to the conspiracy? Sorry, I’ve not read all other posts regarding this yet, so may repeat info already provided.

    Tony Blair went about it another way and offered to reform the City of London in what turned out to be a gift from god. He effectively gave the vote to corporations which swayed the balance of democratic power away from residents and workers. It was received by its opponents as the greatest retrograde step since the peace treaty of 1215, Magna Carta. The City won its rights through debt financing in 1067, when William the Conqueror acceded to it and ever since, governments have allowed the continuation of its ancient rights above all others.

    The City effectively now stands as money launderer of the world, the capital of global crime. It is the heart and engine of the offshore haven, with Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man its european collection centres, the caribbean and others hoovering up billions of American dollars from all over the globe. Whilst there are good and legal reasons for offshore accounts, It has a dark and shadowy client list; terrorists, drug barons, arms dealers, politicians, corporations and companies, millionaires, billionaires – most with something to hide

    As we have reported on a number of occasions, Her Majesty’s British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies make up around 25 per cent of the world’s tax havens, which are now blacklisted by the European Commission and now ranked as the most important player of financial secrecy in the world. The revelations contained in the Panama Papers is a drop in a much larger cess pool of crime and the likes of Britain’s Prime Minister and his right hand man at the Exchequer swim in it.

    Tax havens featured on the EC’s blacklist of June last year include the British territories of; Anguilla, Bermuda, the British Virgin Islands, the Cayman Islands, Montserrat and the Turks and Caicos Islands to name just a few and each is inextricably linked to the City of London, where, according to Donald Toon, the boss of the National Crime Agency, “hundreds of £billions are being laundered every year” facilitated by UK banks and the legal professions.

    P.S. IMHO, it is unreasonable to expect HSBC to act as the replacement to the disgraced BCCI (closed due to corruption and involvement in the finance of terrorists), without taking a hit on the bottom line. If I was an HSBC shareholder, I’d want some answers. Not as to their enabling of terrorism being right of or wrong but whether it is pofitable. After all, “free trade is about justice, not utility”. 😉

  205. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    “Unionist parties … didn’t give them the status quo, they gave them an unstable and inadequate settlement.”

    Good point. In the old ‘No will win easily’ days, like early 2013, I remember BT saying … “More powers? We won’t discuss that until AFTER our No win”. It was to be a clear status quo versus Indy. After all, they didn’t want a DevoMax second question.

    Oh how things had changed by Sept 2014. Clarity had changed to thick opaque excrement about what No actually meant.

    So, yes, there are a lot of people bitter that their cosy status quo has gone forever. I suspect they blame nasty separatist for disturbing their peace and quiet You may be right though, some may be open to persuasion that WM doesn’t, after all, have their interests at heart.

  206. yesindyref2 says:

    I remember in summer 2012 Darling, I think it was, promising more powers and getting excited. I used to post in the Grun, and had to sit on my hands not posting my thoughts in case BT realised their mistake, as I saw it.

    In one fell stroke they’d betrayed the status quo supporters while not giving devo-maxers enough. If the status quo-ers thought it through, some of them would surely vote YES as the least of two “evils” from their point of view.

    In the end it didn’t work out as I thought it would. Well, not yet.

  207. yesindyref2 says:

    I’d forgotten the point of my point about “status quo”.

    The point is that very early in 2012 the likes of Curtice had talked about the default effect, the tendency to vote for “no change”. And if in doubt, people would vote for no change by default, that’s safe and known. So the Indy ref would have been about Change, versus No Change.

    The thing is once new powers were promised Iref1 became about full change versus some change. So that default was overtaken and changed in itself. There no longer was a “NO Change” default, which meant 100% of the electorate in Scotland was exposed to the idea of “Change, but how much?”.

    That’s a very positive legacy for IndyRef2, and can be built on via the new powers, limited as they are, by introducing small but very visible changes between Scotland and the rUK. Changes will happen, the no change default has gone for ever.

    From that point of view, Sturgeon and Swinney are totally correct with only changing the higher rate tax threshold in line with inflation. I was disappointed at first as I fell into the Devo trap and wanted a “progressive” large cut, perhaps from £43,500 to £40,000 or even £35,000.

    But the important thing is change and divergence, not the amount of it.

  208. yesindyref2 says:

    That idea of Change by the way, means that with their idea of 1p on the rate of tax, Labour and the LibDems are now actively campaigning towards Independence, even if they don’t realise it. Leaving only the Conservatives against.

    I’ll shut up now.

  209. galamcennalath says:

    Derek Bateman’s latest is the best I’ve seen him write.

    He articulates my thoughts in a way I certainly never could. I’m sure a great many others would say the same.

    A must read!

  210. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    “There’s nothing succeeds like success”, which is why I think the SNP are being ultra-cautious in the leadup to ScotGE. An upsurge in votes and renewal of a majority in parliament, coupled with a drop in support for Labour, may help prise away more for indy. Polls seem to predict (if they can be trusted!) a significant fall in Labour turnout, so some voters may not yet have switched allegiance, but may be weakening….

  211. Gerry says:

    Cameron – untenable if this fund was not declared. It’ll haunt him from every side if he doesn’t go. The tory euro sceptics will go for his throat now.

  212. NeoconNat says:

    It’s funny seeing Bateman and so many others like Macwhirter talking about a more balanced BBC in isolation of the real problem. There’s a reason for the BBC being biased, although it seems almost forgotten here, there, and everywhere, and it’s the reason they’ll never allow it; an unbiased and impartial BBC would result in a lot more people supporting the SNP and independence.

    It should never be overlooked that we would be independent right now if the BBC even resembled impartiality in the weeks leading up to the referendum.

  213. ronnie anderson says:

    Remember The Remembracer in the Mother of all Parliaments. Westminster wont be allowing City of London to lose money,it wont be a Panama Hat it will put a Tin Hat on it.

    Cameron wearing ah Porky Pie Hat,takes him 5days to remember £30grands worth of shares,what were 5000 Blairmore shares worth in 2010,we job fur the WOS ferrets.

  214. heedtracker says:

    It should never be overlooked that we would be independent right now if the BBC even resembled impartiality in the weeks leading up to the referendum.

    It’s The Vow wot won it, BBC, all the newspapers, STV, Project Fear but mainly the devo-max, federal UK The Vow.

  215. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Well, NeoconNat you clearly are obsessed with BBC bias to the point of paranoia, but it’s not evidently a conspiracy from on high, more likely an unspoken and uncoordinated coalition of individual attitudes: institutional bias, in other words. We should pay attention to what one-time insiders like Bateman and MacWhirter have to say, because they were there. Each may hold only a partial insight of the whole, but they are the strongest witnesses we have. To ignore their useful evidence from the supposed moral highpoint of a distant cozy armchair is plumb foolish!

    Nevertheless, it was and remains a signal disappointment to many here in Scotland that the BBC as a whole is behaving so manifestly badly – whatever else we expected, we didn’t expect the BBC to trash its well-deserved reputation for impartiality so wilfully. But a lot of individuals working there clearly feel that they personally have a lot to lose from enhanced Scottish autonomy, and no-one in the place seems to be making any serious attempt to rein them in.

  216. heedtracker says:

    Robert J. Sutherland says:
    7 April, 2016 at 8:48 pm
    Well, NeoconNat you clearly are obsessed with BBC bias to the point of paranoia,

    That’s my thing.


    but it’s not evidently a conspiracy from on high, more likely an unspoken and uncoordinated coalition of individual attitudes: institutional bias, in other words.

    What evidence is there of the on high BBC freak show were NOT dictating BBC Scotland’s terrorising and monstering of their Scotland region?

    Even BBC World Service piles in with their sneaky creepy Project Fear, all the time.

  217. galamcennalath says:

    heedtracker says:

    “It’s The Vow wot won it, BBC, all the newspapers, STV, Project Fear but mainly the devo-max, federal UK The Vow.”

    I agree completely. The final deceitful offers won it. Without that it would have been 55:45, I am convinced.

    Imagine the BBC had remained impartial (hard), or Project Fear had contained fewer lies, then Yes would have closed in on the 50% earlier.

    If Cameron had unleashed his more-powers plan earlier, it would have been scrutised and he would have had to firm up on what was actually being offered.

    It would have been proper DevoMax if he had delivered cast iron guarantees, or Indy if not.

  218. NroconNat says:

    Sutherland, I didn’t suggest what might explain the bias, only that it’s there. And it’s very convenient that it’s there.

    As for what Macwhirter said about institutional bias, that’s page 1, day 1, media studies level stuff. Actually, to be really specific, Chomsky & Herman nailed that structural stuff in the mid ’70s.

    I have problems with the analysis of Macwhirter though, hs explanation makes no sense. Are we really to believe the BBC is getting its editorial from ticker tape? Seriously? If that’s true, it’s more shocking than a team of creepy old men conspiring in a dark, smoke-filled room.

    Anyone who has any familiarity here will know that only the smaller news agencies follow the leaders systematically like that.

    It’s nonsense and it doesn’t explain the self-censoring and bias that individuals bring to the job, the stuff they themselves are unaware of like class values etc.

    It makes sense to assume that the reason people like Macwhirter get jobs like that in the first place is because they have the sort of values that the corporate media and decision makers at the BBC don’t find threatening in the first place. Aside from the usual class bias, In Scotland that means pro-unionist values.

  219. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath says:
    7 April, 2016 at 9:05 pm
    heedtracker says:

    Its something we will obviously never know. It must have pulled NO votes back from 50-50 because it was pretty terrifying. Being terrorised by likes of the BBC isn’t fun at all.

    Fact is they kept devo-max off the ballot paper then stuck it back on at the very last minute but why did the whole UKOK Brit establishment freak out like this so late in their giant campaign, is another teamGB mystery.

    We know they were watching postal votes coming in from the start, so it may be that they were showing a YES win right up to their historic The Vow shyste.

    One thing is for sure. The whole of the BBC, from top to bottom, were full on Project Fearing, not just BBC Scotland gits.

    The on going issue now, is BBC led continuing Project Feat SNPbad campaign. Are they really capable of getting SLab back in or are they only just keeping them from oblivion? BBC Scotland news black out of SNP MP’s in Westminster and BBC England still treating the Libdem’s like the third party, is a huge component of their attack propaganda.

    Keep Scotland ignorant of SNP Westminster, target and monster a couple of SNP MP’s as hard as possible.

    Either way, its not a democracy. Its dictatorship by media goons.

  220. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @NeconNat –

    When you use ‘we’, who are you referring to?

  221. Thepnr says:

    galamcennalath says:

    “I agree completely. The final deceitful offers won it. Without that it would have been 55:45, I am convinced.”

    Your maybe right, I for sure don’t know. Though I do believe a few days before the vote it was neck and neck and without the Vow? well who knows.

    The Yoons still go on and on about accepting the result, well we did of course, there were no riots, no trouble at all. The result WAS accepted, be it with much disappointment and even depression among Yes voters.

    Here’s the thing though, attitudes change, that’s why we have a general election in the UK. People will change their mind and I expect this will happen next time we come to vote on Independence as there will be a next time.

    That’s what Unionists can;t accept, the fact that there will be a next time and their lies will be less effective as the Wee Black Book points out everything they predicted that would happen with a Yes has actually happened with a No vote.

    Carry on, no rush. Kepp trying to persuade the older members of your own family and those of your neighbours. We are right, no worries from me. Right will win in the end.

  222. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    heedtracker, what hard evidence is there that the BBC WERE dictating BBC Scotland’s monstering of their Scotland region?

    Well, none, in a word.

    Or we would surely have it by now, and not just dark suspicions. There’s no more point in gratuitous BBCbaaad than SNPbaaad – it just doesn’t lead anywhere useful. To diss essentially good people like Bateman and MacWhirter is self-defeating (and dare I say it, self-indulgent).

    The more hard evidence we can glean the better, not only from insiders such as the aforementioned, but also eg. from Prof. Robertson’s media analyses.

  223. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland –

    Have you seen Prof Robertson’s appearance at the Scottish Cultural Affairs Committee?

  224. Chic McGregor says:

    @Andrew McLean

    I think ‘Massacre’ rather than ‘Battle’ of Tranent.

    Also contrast visibility of this with the Peterloo Massacre in Manchester.

  225. Ian Brotherhood says:

    FAO Robert J. Sutherland –

    If you haven’t seen Prof Robertson’s testimony, please refrain from commenting on it.

    If you have seen it? Your memory needs refreshment:

  226. Thepnr says:

    BBC report from China on 10th Sep 2014. Not biased in any way Hahhahaha.

    Must be going mad to believe the BBC were in anyway biased.

  227. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    galamcennalath said:

    If Cameron had unleashed his more-powers plan earlier, it would have been scrutised and he would have had to firm up on what was actually being offered.

    True, very true. Except that he handed the franchise over to Gordie Broon, and it was that Hero who came up with The V** (expletive deleted).

    And now we’ve got GB impersonator Tom Harris assuring us that “Scotland will get more powers if we vote Brexit”. Well {sarcasm on} he’s definitely the man to make sure that happens {sarcasm off}, isn’t he?!

    These people never learn.

  228. Fred says:

    @ Nana, thanks for the Boothman farewell, one shit less at Pacific Quay.

    @ Andrew McLean, Lovat was not the last to be beheaded in Britain, Dr Archie Cameron was topped after Lovat & the Radical leaders of 1820, Baird, Hardie & Wilson, were hung & beheaded in August of that year.

  229. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland –

    For your further information, this is the footage of the BBC Scotland high-heid yins appearing in the same SG committee on the same day.

    It should be noted that McQuarrie, Boothman and their ‘handers’ had only appeared after TWICE refusing outright to do so on the grounds that ‘they didn’t have to’. Allegedly it was Chris Patten, then-governor of the BBC Trust, who gave McQuarrie a call and told him to attend.

    This call from Patten (yawn…’allegedly’) came after BBC Scotland had attempted to have Prof Roberston sacked.

    If you insist on supporting the BBC, I would be interested in hearing your defence of what appears to be institutional intimidation of an academic who was only doing his job.

  230. Thepnr says:

    Less than a month to go then until the polls. have to admit I had expected a lot worse from the media than what we have had.

    Maybe the’re just saving the best for last.

  231. heedtracker says:

    To diss essentially good people like Bateman and MacWhirter is self-defeating (and dare I say it, self-indulgent).

    Dissing all of these essentially good people is perfectly legitimate because its what they do, to any and everyone that wants Scotland to run Scotland, for loadsa money too.

    Being brain washed and terrified BBC style by a state broadcaster is pretty unique you know, in peace time at any rate.

    How people who do actually research staggering corruption in the BBC keep their sanity, is pretty amazing

  232. Doug says:

    This is how BBC infiltrates to change perceptions.

  233. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ian Brotherhood,

    I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Of course I have, and very powerful his testimony was too. As he says, he has his suspicions about the complete media silence with which his findings were received and ignored. Which is no surprise given what we know about how yoon-oriented the MSM are. That doesn’t require an overt conspiracy, though, which is my point. These people all share the same world view, mostly the same political allegiance, they don’t need to collude. That is the insidiousness of institutional bias.

    No-one has been able to come up with a “smoking gun”: eg. a BBC memo or internal e-mail that orders something overtly biased to happen or not to happen, something that would be directly incriminatory. There may be none. There need not be one. Not even that nasty letter sent to Prof. Robertson’s head of department proves a conspiracy, it just reveals a very defensive BBC apparatchik.

    His hard analyses though do stand for themselves, and are irrefutable. That’s the kind of solid evidence we do need.

  234. Dr Jim says:

    I was just watching the BBC there (I know I know) and they mentioned if we wanted to see a repeat of a particular program we should look up the I Player in the Scotland “Category”

    Of all the names we get called that’s the first time I’ve ever been a category

    You learn something every day

  235. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ian Brotherhood, please don’t put words into my mouth. I am NOT “supporting” the BBC. They clearly are biased overall. All I’m saying is:

    a) There is no point is self-indulgent paranoia, it leads nowhere. It’s only hard facts that win minds, not unsubstantiated broodings.

    b) It does no good dissing good people who have witnessed how the BBC operates, merely because they used to work for it at some time. That’s just prejudice, and likewise is totally unhelpful.

  236. Bill says:

    Bateman, MacWhirter and Torrance et al, it’s time we seen them for what they are:

    Scottish Millstones stamped with “Property of GB”.

    Get over them and move on.

  237. heedtracker says:

    Robert J. Sutherland says:
    7 April, 2016 at 10:12 pm
    Ian Brotherhood, please don’t put words into my mouth. I am NOT “supporting” the BBC.

    The BBC Question Time show lately from Dundee is a UKOK belter Robert. Dimbelby was absolutely disgraceful/quite right. Dimbelby and his crew are raging unionist tories, took the piss out of Dundee, Scottish democracy, licence money, then they scarpered, like the sneaky creepy gits they are, with thousands of complaints form suckas like me, that were fobbed as easy as rule britannia pie, but they are ofcourse lovely people.

  238. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Bill, you have clearly no inkling whatever of what these people have ever said or written.

    For anyone who actually does know, Bateman and MacWhirter are in no way whatever in the same camp as Torrance.

    This kind of mindless blathering is going to win no converts whatever to the indy cause.

  239. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    And re: the BBC, don’t forget GA Ponsonby’s EXCELLENT “London Calling: How the BBC stole the Referendum”.

    It’s available for free download of each chapter as an individual PDF here:-

  240. Thepnr says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    That sounds like a Winger. I’m pretty sure that all will agree with your opinion on the BBC that “They clearly are biased overall.” Ta.

  241. Ken500 says:

    Christine Legarde is a tax evader. She pays no tax. She is being sued by the French Gov for £Millions of illegal payments. ‘Google’ @ Christine Legarde sued.

  242. NeoconNat says:

    Sutherland, you are not only defending the BBC, you are attacking those of us here who know it is biased. On top of that, you are making an incoherent argument.

    One one hand you accuse of us of being paranoid when we point to the bias of the BBC, then you admit that the BBC is biased.

    We get your point about conspiracy theories, it isn’t sophisticated or complicated, but to my knowledge nobody has suggested in any detail how we might explain the bias.

    Whoever asked what I meant by “we”, probably looking for trouble, isn’t it obvious I meant we the Scottish people, we supporters of independence?

    There really are some ridiculously childish people on here…

  243. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Oh, heedtracker, tell me about it. I’m still waiting on a response to my 2nd-level complaint about that QT travesty in Dundee. (The Beeb’s first response was an obviously trivial “boilerplate” reply that only answered one of my three points.) I received an e-mail the other day apologising for no further response within their target timescale because they were still awaiting a response from the production team. Duh. I wonder what on earth they are still checking.

    But I’m damned if I’m going to let that one go by default!

  244. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    NeoconNat said:
    Sutherland, you are not only defending the BBC, you are attacking those of us here who know it is biased.

    Oh dear. Don’t be silly.

  245. Rock says:


    “You have wonder at the no voting mentality at this point. How can anyone, and I do mean anyone, fail to see just how anti democratic, self centred and corrupt the UK state system is? Its one massive scandal after another FFS!”

    In Scotland then can fool a lot of people a lot of the time.

    That is why after 300 years we are still fighting for independence.

  246. galamcennalath says:

    heedtracker says:

    “The BBC Question Time show lately from Dundee”

    Yes, there is no way that was just institutional bias or a few ‘rogue’ ultra BritNats exceeding their authority.

    That was orchestrated on a massive scale right down to the denials afterwards.

    No one could surely deny that took a lot of arranging and implementation involving a lot of individuals working to a detailed plan.

    The phrase ‘stitch up’ doesn’t come close.

  247. Rock says:

    Even many Yes supporters are being fooled by The National and The Greens.

  248. NiallD says:

    All WOS readers. If you haven’t read Derek Batemans excellent piece, I would recommend it. And then challenge anyone suggesting anything other than SNP x 2.

  249. Davie Main says:

    There’s a guy at my work who wanders in every morning with a copy of the DR tattooed to his forehead.
    Spouts off SNP bad headlines verbatim, much to the annoyance of myself plus others.

    Anyway, earlier in the week I went to great pains to upscale and print out an A5 copy of the WeeBlaB, which I then placed in the canteen.

    Yesterday I spotted him flicking through it with great furrowed brows.
    Fu**in’ propaganda says he, without seeing the irony in that statement.

    Today, for the first time in years he came in to work WITHOUT his DR.


  250. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @R J Sutherland –

    Sadly, I don’t have time to dance on pinheads with you.

    My ‘point’ was plain enough – John Robertson (who happens to be ‘a professor’, aye, but he’s just a normal human being, eh?) was subjected to foul abuse by one of the most powerful institutions in the UK. Let’s be plain about this – BBC Scotland’s management tried to end a man’s career.

    Do you acknowledge that this actually happened?

    And for what?

    Pointing out facts?

    Those ‘facts’ may not, in your view, constitute a ‘smoking-gun’, but you do the man a grave disservice by even suggesting that his findings be evaluated in such terms.

    Robertson faced that Committee utterly alone – no-one was behind him. When the ‘BBC’ appeared, not only were they team-handed, but they had a ‘doughnut’ of supporters/interested people filling the picture.

    I’m not interested in putting words into your mouth. I’m much more interested in you explaining why you give benefit of clergy to a crowd of well-dressed/eloquent thugs masquerading as public servants.

  251. yesindyref2 says:


    “We”? Who’s this “we” Gunga Din?

  252. heedtracker says:

    The phrase ‘stitch up’ doesn’t come close.

    Its just bullying, or at least thugs thinking they can bullying and intimidate. I have had it face to face occasionally, there’s 50 million of us you know style of goonery.

    Ofcourse the BBC will use it too. Anyway, if they had let in any Dundonian YESers, it would have been a very different QT, just like Scotland is a very different country from the one BBC Scotland gimps try to tell us it is.

  253. galamcennalath says:

    Bill says:

    Bateman … stamped with “Property of GB”

    … not there, he isn’t.

  254. Rock says:


    “Mr Ponsonby Indyref 2 has taken a stand against the BBC. Professor Robertson has taken a stand against the BBC. Rev Stu has taken a stand. Mustn’t forget Derek Bateman.”

    Derek Bateman was the apologist-in-chief for the BBC during the independence referendum campaign.

    The Yes chief Blair Jenkins had publicly said that the BBC was not biased.

    We can’t win any Yes referendum as long as the BBC exists in Scotland.

  255. galamcennalath says:

    Rock says:

    “We can’t win any Yes referendum as long as the BBC exists in Scotland.”

    I hope you are wrong because I can’t see any way of getting rid of the BBC, or even changing it, before we are independent!

    We got damned close last time and I believe we are making progress despite it. We will win. However, I agree with your sentiment in that it is certainly one of the biggest obstacles!

  256. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ian Brotherhood sais:
    7 April, 2016 at 10:43 pm

    “Let’s be plain about this – BBC Scotland’s management tried to end a man’s career.

    Do you acknowledge that this actually happened?

    Oh yes, happy (if that’s the right word) to do so. It was utterly disreputable, without qualification. And one certainly has to question the motivation that lay behind it. Especially since the BBC themselves were very willing to squeal about that impromptu demo outside PQ after Nick Robinson’s outrageous mistreatment of Alex Salmond.

    I’m honestly not trying to “dance on pinheads”, as you unhelpfully put it. It was likewise unfair of you to attribute beliefs to me that I most certainly do not hold, and which are not deducible from anything I wrote, if you cared to read it carefully.

    One of my points, which is far from trivial, is that there has been some misguided criticism in this forum of a couple of fair-minded commentators (no, not Torrance!), merely on the grounds it seems that they have at one time or another worked for the BBC. Perhaps you would care to disassociate yourself from mindless witchhunting of this kind…?

  257. yesindyref2 says:

    Salmond said that the BBC was institutionally biased, and it is. It’s in its blood, its DNA, its history.

    So the Welsh are thieves but sing well, the Irish fight but are a good craic, and the Jocks get drunk but are canny. Even in the Ref it’s still there “The Scots are too canny to vote for Independence”. Simialr goes for Geordies, Brummies, Mancunians and yokels with strawas in their mouths, and them from the East End of London even.

    Sad thing is so many people are used to this, they believe it to be true. And then you get the Scots going down to London, and instead of fighting the image of Scots, they play up to it, so as to fit in and make friends. Some friends, eh.

    But that doesn’t mean the BBC don’t do deliberate bias as well, after all, they are the protectors of the civilised World through the World Service, and protectors of the British Empire. Of which they did have a genuinely good history, many decades ago, during the Second World War. Problem is, they think they’re still in it.

  258. Rock says:


    “However, I agree with your sentiment in that it is certainly one of the biggest obstacles!”

    The BBC is and has always been Scotland’s enemy number one.

    The Labour party is Scotland’s enemy number two.

  259. Proud Cybernat says:

    Mr Sutherland. Macwhirter has pubicly stated that charges of bias against the BBC are unfounded because – wait for it – the BBC was merely taking ots lead from the biased print media int his country. In other words – it never once occurred to the BBC that there existed such a thing as ‘New Media’ where at least half the population of Scotland were receiving their news.

    How so very UKOK convenient of the BBC to ignore other news outlets that weren’t singing the tune of BBCSLAB.

    If Macwhirter insists in defending/supporting this anti-Scottish, anti-indy, anti-democratic institution we fondly refer to here as BBCSLAB (and that’s one of the kinder terms), then Macwhirter isn’t supporting Scotland’s absolute right to self-determination. He simply isn’t. Period. He is merely an interloper who blows with the wind, trying to be controversial. Just like some other interlopers that occasionaly pass through this site.

  260. Proud Cybernat says:

    ‘publicly’ and not ‘pubicly’. Hehe.

  261. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @R J Sutherland –

    I’m not aware of having contributed to any slighting of ex-BBC employees on this or any other thread, and it would be hypocritical of me to do so because I’ve had freelance work from BBC in the past.

    Is that ‘disassociation’ enough?

    My, your, or anyone else’s relationship with the BBC is irrelevant in the discussion which you initiated i.e. regarding the existence of any ‘smoking-gun’ to definitively establish BBC institutional bias against Scottish independence.

    What would you regard as ‘smoking-gun’ evidence?

    Do we need to see/hear senior BBC executives/presenters making confessions before you’ll admit the bleedin’ obvious?

    Would you like to see Professor Robertson and/or the BBC Scotland hied-yins recalled to ‘reconsider’ their previous testimony?

    What is it, R J Sutherland, that you actually want?

  262. NeoconNat says:

    Sutherland, you’re basically trolling. To come in here and defend the BBC is kamikaze trolling at that. You use the word “mindless” to describe those of us who question the motives of these people; in response and in the spirit of an eye for an eye, I call you a sycophantic lightweight fruitcake.

    You’ve now succeeded in reducing us to your level. Well done, troll.

    Now, I’ve given up watching The Masters to watch Questions Time. I love golf but I’m glad I did. The exquisitely beautiful impact of the aging process on Ruth Lea is something to behold. Surely we can all agree on that…

  263. Proud Cybernat says:

    Michelle Thomson. Has not been charged with any illegal activity. But, nevertheless, resigned SNP party whip.

    Natalie McGarry. Has not been charged with any illegal activity. But, nevertheless, resigned SNP party whip.

    David Cameron. Will he resign the Tory party whip? Why doesn’t he follow the example of SNP MPs?

  264. heedtracker says:

    Mummy I’m scared

    “So we are the independence party in Scotland. If you believe in an independent United Kingdom where Scotland has growing autonomous powers, if you believe in the independence of the individual from an over-wieldy state, then put people like Coburn in Holyrood.”

    David Coburn also set out his party’s opposition to infrequent bin collections by local councils as he does not wish to see Scotland”infested with rats” and be turned “into Cairo”.

  265. yesindyref2 says:

    Macwhirter. Ah well. Who knows.

    He did write an article last August “Compelling case for broadcasting to be devolved to Holyrood”. And I’m fairly sure he’s in favour of the Scottish Six.

    The thing is that if he goes in all guns blazing “BBC is biased rubbish”, he’ll never get invited on. But he does sometimes, and then can try to get his message across.

  266. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Proud Cybernat said: Macwhirter has publicly stated that charges of bias against the BBC are unfounded because – wait for it – the BBC was merely taking its lead from the biased print media in this country.

    Yes, but I think this is an (apparently common) misunderstanding of what he was actually saying. He is simply revealing one mode by which bias has developed in the BBC. This is evidently true, and should be welcomed as useful internal evidence of what we ordinary mortals observe externally.

    Where the misunderstanding arises, I believe, is that people assume (even though he didn’t actually say it) that this is his sole explanation for bias. He’s just telling it as he saw it, which doesn’t exclude additional explanations besides.

    One obvious one being, as I’ve been saying already, is that there are likely many eg. Labourites working in the BBC who just can’t help themselves from trying to do down the SNP at any and every opportunity they get.

  267. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    NeoconNat said: “Sutherland, you’re basically trolling.

    Don’t. be. silly.

    Try actually reading what I wrote, then actually try to understand it.

    From what I’ve read of your contributions, you shouldn’t be name-calling anyway. (And I’m not the only one who thinks so.)

  268. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @R J Sutherland (11.35) –

    On the basis of your use of italicisation, I’m happy to leave you to the attention of others in this place.

    And may God have mercy on your soul…

  269. yesindyref2 says:


    Robert J. Sutherland’s comment about “mindless” was about this comment:

    Bateman, MacWhirter and Torrance et al, it’s time we seen them for what they are:

    Scottish Millstones stamped with “Property of GB”.

    I don’t agree with insults, but I certainly don’t agree with your misrepresentation “You use the word “mindless” to describe those of us who question the motives of these people; “

    Yet again you use the plural word “us” in this case, to try to get unwritten support for what is your opinion, if that’s what it is, to try to isolate one poster, in this case Sutherland.

    Well, speak for yourself.

  270. Proud Cybernat says:

    “…He’s just telling it as he saw it…

    Tripe. He using it to DEFEND BBCSLAB. THAT’S THE POINT. And even if he doesn’t mean to (which I doubt), THAT is precisely how he comes across – defending the PBC (that’s Pedo Broadcasting Corporation, in case you wondered). Childish? Aye – well the PBC would know all about that, wouldn’t they?

  271. Scott says:

    Cameron said it was unit trust and no capital gains had to be paid on QT Soubrysaid it was investment trust and Cameron had paid capital gains,so who is lying as for Soubry sour puss never did like her always butting in.

  272. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Sorry, Ian, but I fear my use (mis-use?) of italics is the least of my worries as far as my Maker is concerned! =laugh=

  273. yesindyref2 says:

    @Ian Brotherhood
    The other day NeoconNat was accused of being a troll, now today he’s accusing another poster of being a troll.

    Read the postings over again, and think about it.

  274. heedtracker says:

    Yes, but I think this is an (apparently common) misunderstanding of what he was actually saying

    He’s just another carpet bagger. He’s going SNP bad apeshit right now over Sturgeon not going 50% on high earners and he’s using it to monster everyone and everything YES. Its one way of jumping on the electioneering going on but the fact is that fiddling with taxation like this in part of the UK economy is a huge risk that will almost certainly do what the Vow was designed to do, fcuk things up for the Scottish economy.

    Its staggeringly dishonest of carpet baggers like that one to not go into the much broader economics but he’s got to make a living and SNPbad is where its at. If we had won 2014, he’d be all over it like a rash too.

    Its night night from this crew of chancers too.

    Lovely photo of a torygirl too, another one. Aren’t red and blue UKOK tories photogenic. The stench of rancid The Graun’s attack on Scottish democracy gets as bad as the beeb by the minute.

  275. Capella says:

    @ heedtracker
    Dire. That Guardian puff piece for Ruth Davidson, while at the same time trying to find something positive to say about Labour, surpasses ignorance and coasts into delusional. The BTL comments are also a wonder to behold. It’s like living in a Jonathan Swift novel. For the sake of you sanity – stop reading that bilge!

  276. Chic McGregor says:

    Farage balloons won’t stop SNP bombers.

  277. Chic McGregor says:

    Great post from Paul

  278. yesindyref2 says:

    She’s doing well with the media. There’s another article in the Herald about how she’s complimenting the SNP for having a tax policy like theirs. Which isn’t true of course because the Conservatives would raise the threshold for higher rate same as the UK, but the SNP are only raising it inline with inflation which is currently just 1%.

    But having had a go at the Labour support to reduce it to the Conservative level, it’s fairly clear she’s trying to taint the SNP with non-left policies so people will vote Green or SNP on the list rather than SNP.

    Amd that way apart from maybe getting more Conservative MSPs into Holyrood, perhaps causing the SNP not to have an overall majority which is, it seems to me, a danger with the way the latest poll has gone.

    I’m seeing otherwise sane Indy supporters saying they’re going to go Green on the list, to get some different views and checks and balances on the SNP Government.

    The message has to go out, go out, and go out again.

    No majority SNP Government, no Indy Ref 2 and no Independence. Kiss goodbye to Indy for another 18 years like Devolution after 1979 – or much longer.

  279. Capella says:

    I used to read the blog of an Iraqi girl until she was forced to flee with her family to Syria in 2007. Then all blogging ceased. I assumed she had died.
    But I was delighted to see she had survived at least until 2013. That was before the war in Syria so who knows what has happened since. But it is at least a glimmer into the horrors of the destruction of the Middle East. I do hope she is safe.

  280. Chic McGregor says:

    If the UK Gov spent £9 million on 27 million leaflets (which cannot include postage costs) what has the Ruth Tank Commander Party leaflet cost in Scotland?

    About £1 million + postage because they had no other way of distributing it?

    Remembering that the total party spend allowed is just over £1.5 million for Holyrood.

    Even the obsequious Electoral Commission cannot ignore an overspend.

  281. Chic McGregor says:

    Oops! ‘SNP bombers’ was of course a WWII metaphor.

  282. schrodingerscat says:

    1st question on bbcqt to night

    is cameron justified in spending £9 mill on In propaganda

    the correct answer was avoided by everyone, which is…

    Yes… long as he also allocates £9 mill on out propaganda

    that is the only fair solution, other than not spending anything at all.

    unjust, unfair and uneven playing fields are concepts the yes supporters in scotland have become accustomed to.

    the fact the idea of fairness didnt even occur to anyone on the panel, including irvine welsh or dimbleby, or anyone in the audience, or indeed anyone on wings, pretty much sums up where we are at the moment.

    the general belief that there is a lack of justice, fairness, equality in society are all the ingredients required for a revolution.

    jealous of iceland tonight

    vote yes2

  283. Iain More says:

    On EU Referendum funding from Brit Nat Gov. The UKOK leave EU Naw bags to Scots Indy seem to have a very short memory plus an irony bypass rolled into one.

    Yet I gather the Electoral Commission said it was not against the rules. Clearly we cant allow those Brit Nat Govt stooges to be anywhere near the next Indy Referendum. The rules are clearly crooked and they aren’t even questioning them????

  284. NeoconNat says:

    Schrodinger, fairness went out the window long ago. Talk about howling at the moon.

    I thought Irvine Welsh’s answer to the question of whether he’d vote in or out was interesting. He said he’d vote to leave and I couldn’t help but wonder if he wants England to vote out so that we get another crack at independence.

  285. Rob James says:

    Are people seriously suggesting that HMGov has no input on BBC/MSM output or an absence of collusion?

    I can’t remember if it was the Natalie McGarry or Michelle Thompson “scandal” where, by remarkable coincidence, from a language with a vocabulary of approximately 30000 words, the Express and Heil managed to have the same thirty-odd words in their opening two sentences, and in the exact same order.

    Couldn’t even be arsed trying to put the received memo into their own words.

  286. Dr Jim says:

    @Ian More

    Britannia Waives the Rules

  287. NeoconNat says:

    Rob, believe it or not, Sutherland is calling those of us who believe the BBC is deliberately biased “mindless”. Yes, that’s right, on Wings he is suggesting we are crackpots for that. Seems like he has some support too. WTF?

  288. CameronB Brodie says:

    What are the semiotics of the BBC? IMHO, dysfunctional, due largely to it’s intrinsically and quintessentially Yoon outlook.

    Despite the BBC’s claim to do so, it is unable to articulate the plurality of opinion within the ‘Unite Kingdom’. To do so would undermine the British Establishment, of which they are the public address system.

    The BBC can’t help being anything other than institutionally biased against Scottish independence. It is the nature of the beast.

  289. CameronB Brodie says:

    eh…I got a bit muddled there.

    For clarity, I’m suggesting the BBC can’t help being biased against Scottish independence. It’s in their genes and probably their Royal Charter as well. 😉

  290. NeoconNat says:

    Cameron, there’s more to it than that.

    According to Macwhirter, the BBC bias was a consequence of following the editorial line of corporate media. Utter crap. Even if that was true they’d still be responsible.

    But, as I said, there’s clearly more to it than all that. Look at the malevolent way they tried to get Prof. Robertson fired and blacken his name. All because his research pointed to bias.

    Everything about the BBC is rigged. Institutional bias is there for sure, but the only reason people like Macwhirter and McQuarrie get jobs in institutions like that in the first place is because they have the right core values; basically establishmentalism which in our context equates to anti-independence.

    The BBC should be privatised. Corporate and private media isn’t perfect by any means, but at least we aren’t forced to also pay for their lies. The Internet has changed everything so there’s really no need to rely on any of them though.

  291. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    NeoconNat said:

    Rob, believe it or not, Sutherland is calling those of us who believe the BBC is deliberately biased “mindless”. Yes, that’s right, on Wings he is suggesting we are crackpots for that.

    That’s a malign and deliberate misrepresentation, as anyone who cares to read what I wrote can readily verify. Who is “we”? It’s just little old you! You’ve been called out for that misbehaviour by others on this forum already, yet here you are again.

    Trolling, just like you did the other day (and were called out by others for that then too)…!

  292. Dr Jim says:

    The state broadcaster does what it’s told, how many wars and conflicts have they been used to spread misinformation to the enemies of the state, the Union is the state and we are the enemies of it

    Plus if the state broadcaster doesn’t act in the way the government wants, when it wants, it gets its taxation budget reduced as a wee punishment and example of who’s in charge

    There’s only one way to stop the state broadcaster doing it’s Union job….. Hmmn

    And the other way is cross your fingers and hope

    Sorry folks, that was a bit miserable for a late night go to bed post

  293. CameronB Brodie says:

    IMHO, the ‘defense’ that the BBC in Scotland merely reflects the opinions of the corporate media, ignores the BBC’s failure of public duty to ensure their product achieves an inclusive diversity of opinion. Or perhaps it draws attention to the matter?

    Is Mr. Macwhirter suggesting it is essentially OK for the BBC to amplify the largely right-wing and self-serving corporate media interests and sell it as objective? Is that what people pay their license fee for?

  294. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    NeoconNat, may I suggest you take some time out from rabblerousing to read Iain MacWhirter’s seminal two books on the indy and its aftermath:

    Road to referendum

    Tsunami: Scotland’s democratic revolution

    and likewise Derek Bateman’s most recent blog, as linked by K1 earlier in this thread.

    then you might just possibly acquire some hinterland and write something a tad more grounded and accurate. =sigh=

  295. NeoconNat says:

    Two direct quotes from Sutherland attacking those of us who think the BBC is totally rigged against the SNP and urging us not to tar Macwhirter, an ex BBC mandarin, with the same brush we use on the likes of Torrance.

    “This kind of mindless blathering is going to win no converts whatever to the indy cause.”

    He then goes on in a second post to desrcibe those of who disagree as “mindless witchhunters”.

    Now I’d be the first to admit I haven’t won many friends on here, as you are keen to point out, Sutherland, but let me worry about that and stop playing the man instead of the ball.

    You should take a step back on this. And in actual fact, I think Macwhirter is worse than Torrance purely because people like you are taken in by his pitch. He’s stabbed us in the back more than once.

  296. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    CameronB Brodie wrote:

    Or perhaps it draws attention to the matter?

    Yes indeed, that is precisely it. He was quietly “fingering” the BBC for bias, and giving one reason for why it’s happening. (But some people seem to be deeply disenchanted just because he hadn’t necessarily “bought” the conspiracy theory agenda lock, stock and barrel.)

  297. NeoconNat says:

    Sutherland, I wouldn’t read that fella’s books if you put a gun to my head. And I don’t think you should be now going on to promote his books for him here, having said what you’ve said tonight, not to mention some of the scathing stuff he has said about the Indy movement.

    You strike me as an apologist for the BBC and it’s totally corrupt cause although I’d concede that you probably think you mean well on some mistaken level.

    As for the so called rabblerousing, in 100% of the cases where I’ve taken a blunt position in here it’s been in response to someone else hounding me or saying things that are just stupid. With you it’s been a bit of both.

    My standpoint is clearly different from yours. I’m totally confident in where we are now and where we are going with regards to Independence. We don’t need the BBC or MacWhirter’s help. At some point there will be one of those historical galvanising moments, we’ll all probably end up on the streets, and another referendum will be held that we will win.

    Failing that, the long road entails waiting 10 years at most for the demographics to change in our favour.

    I’m enjoying the journey without compromising on my integrity or core values.

  298. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Now I’d be the first to admit I haven’t won many friends on here [true, very true!], but let me worry about that and stop playing the man instead of the ball.

    Oh, this is rich from the person who wrote, upon no basis whatever:

    I call you a sycophantic lightweight fruitcake.

    You are a pathetic little would-be bully. But your woefully obvious control-freak psych tricks have been clocked, and not just by me.

  299. K1 says:

    Dinnae fret Robert. ‘We’ can aw read 😉

  300. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    K1 wrote:

    Dinnae fret Robert. ‘We’ can aw read

    Thanks for that. I appreciate it!

  301. yesindyref2 says:


    Fuck off.

  302. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, haven’t been straight out like that since mrbvb nearly 4 years ago. Ah well.

    Anyway, OT
    It occurs to me that Sturgeon and Swinney in not having the policy of putting the tax up to 50p on additional rate, but keeping it at 45p and giving that inflation rise on the threshold, also gives a message for Indy to the not-left voters.

    A fear of some of the NO voters was that the first Indy Government who would probably be SNP, would do all sorts of strong stuff they wouldn’t like, like hiking taxes to pay for increased public spending.

    By showing sensible restraint, a slow steady step, they’re giving an example of what they might do when Scotland had all powers – Indy, i.e. steady as she goes.

  303. Stoker says:

    Davie Main wrote:
    “There’s a guy at my work who wanders in every morning with a copy of the DR tattooed to his forehead. Spouts off SNP bad headlines verbatim, much to the annoyance of myself plus others.”

    “Anyway, earlier in the week I went to great pains to upscale and print out an A5 copy of the WeeBlaB, which I then placed in the canteen. Yesterday I spotted him flicking through it with great furrowed brows. Fu**in’ propaganda says he, without seeing the irony in that statement.”

    “Today, for the first time in years he came in to work WITHOUT his DR. Result.”

    Well done, Davie!
    Keep reinforcing the points gently though, through general conversation, as he might just have been shamed into hiding it. Get him to spread the word through his friends and family.
    Keep up the great work Davie.

  304. Grouse Beater says:

    To those arguing with each other over the BBC …

    … as far as Scotland is concerned the BBC is irrelevant.

  305. Nana says:

    O/T links

    Panama-papers-david-cameron-admits he’s a liar

    Activists are planning protests outside No10 on Saturday, let’s see if the pig will resign.

    Paul Mason writes

    Whittingdale saga continues

  306. sarah mackenzie says:

    O/T Does anyone know if the self-print edition of the Wee Black Book is available yet? Local Greens have said they’ll have some on their stall tomorrow if available.

  307. Ruby says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    8 April, 2016 at 3:29 am


    Fuck off.

    Ruby replies

    Why do you want him to Fuck Off?

    Do you think he’s taking the piss?

  308. Nana says:

    A wee reminder of what Georgie boy had to say about the dodgers

    What about your own tax affairs George?

    Let’s not forget while Cameron had money stashed away he was receiving DLA benefits for his disabled son.
    How many disabled, homeless and sick people have died because of his policies.

    Samantha-cameron-hires fashion aide, guess who is paying

    Edward Snowden-calls-british-people

  309. sinky says:

    A slow day at Hootsman this morning with only eight anti SNP letters (no pro SNP / Indy letter published) plus more centre stage for Labour in election coverage.

    However a good article from Joyce McMillan on so called one party state and why the Unionist parties have failed.

    Also another good piece from Derek Bateman on how BBC fail to represent the 50% of voters who support the SNP

  310. louis.b.argyll says:

    Rock, what do you mean, ‘even’ (yes supporters…)

  311. Ruby says:


    Interesting story about Snowdon

    ‘Edward Snowden calls on British people to rise up and demand David Cameron quit as Prime Minister’

    Do you think we would ever see 10% of voters in the UK taking to the streets as they did in Iceland?

  312. Ruby says:

    louis.b.argyll says:
    8 April, 2016 at 9:03 am

    Rock, what do you mean, ‘even’ (yes supporters…)

    Ruby replies

    Is Rock another of these piss takers?
    What about Bill?

    Bill’s comment about Derek Bateman is very strange considering on the first page of the Wee Black Book there is a quote from Derek Bateman.

  313. Nana says:

    O/T links

    Torquil unhappy, what a shame

    I mentioned the French protests last week, nothing on the bbc about this, well I’m guessing the establishment are scared it might spread

    No wonder Icelander’s are still protesting…

  314. Nana says:


    As a people we are somewhat slow to react but from what I’ve read on twitter and blogs anger appears to be growing rapidly. A protest is planned for Saturday and some mps are now saying he should resign.

    We live in hope, but as we know cornered rats are dangerous and there are plenty of them waiting to take over from this one.

    I spotted a tweet yesterday re Pritti Patels expenses, since 2010 she has amassed over £600,000. How the hell can that be and if true who is monitoring expenses claims.
    Taxpayers taken for fools all the time.

  315. Ruby says:

    I wonder if the people in Iceland were shocked to find their PM was corrupt whereas here in the UK it comes as no surprise.

  316. Ruby says:

    Nana says:
    8 April, 2016 at 9:33 am


    As a people we are somewhat slow to react but from what I’ve read on twitter and blogs anger appears to be growing rapidly. A protest is planned for Saturday and some mps are now saying he should resign.

    Ruby replies

    Why are we slow to react?
    Do we all ‘know our place’?

    I can’t imagine these protest will be given much positive media coverage.

  317. Breeks says:

    The BBC has 21st Century technology with 19th Century ethics and morals. It will no more represent our interests fairly and objectively than it would have represented the interests of the French at Trafalgar, the Russians at Balaclava, or any of the Native Americans, Zulus, Bushmen, Aborigines, or Chinese coolies who were opposed to their British “enlightenment”.

    The BBC is the British Bulldog, and it will only ever serve one master. That master is never going to be us.

    It is our mistake, niaivity if you like, which expects the BBC to respect our choice of a different path, just because our choice is democratic. Because it is us who expect the BBC to be neutral, it is us who empower the BBC to lie to us, and distort the narrative.

    The BBC is the comfortable uniform all British people, from the richest to the poorest, can wear in coming together in times of war, crisis or alert. We are seeking to declare ourselves as different; Un-British. We would swear allegiance to a different uniform. Suddenly we ARE the crisis.

    We are fools to expect neutrality or even handed treatment from the BBC. We are a crisis to be dealt with, certainly not a cause to be furthered.

    A devolved BBC, a Scottish 6, a kinder face to BBC Scotland,… They will still be enemies within our ranks. We need our own broadcaster just as we need our own government, for all the same reasons and if anything, greater urgency.

  318. ScottishPsyche says:

    The Daily record today in full screaming meltdown.

    Torcuil really is the worst writer out of all the yoon hacks.

    Now that they cannot employ wee Aidan on work experience rates they have recruited neutral-noagenda-Kevin to write his blog again (without the graphs).

    Oh dear.

  319. Big Jock says:

    Glen Campbell on GMS desperately trying to create a scandal over the Chinese MOU. I felt sorry for the guy he was trying to tease some gossip out of. The guy must have though what the feck is this all about. It’s embarassing and Glen is making a dick of himself. The story is as dead as a donkey. But if this is all BBC have they are reaching a dead end quicker than we thought.

  320. Ruby says:

    Breeks says:
    8 April, 2016 at 9:45 am

    We are fools to expect neutrality or even handed treatment from the BBC

    Ruby replies

    Exactly! However I think it’s important while we are part of the UK to demand neutrality after all we are paying for the service! Well at least some of us are.

    Had there been a licence fee back in the time of Trafalgar which the French had to pay then the BBC would have had to give them fair coverage.

  321. winifred mccartney says:

    The film of the LGBTI hustings event was uploaded and edited by Stonewall – just had e-mail from them.

  322. Ruby says:

    winifred mccartney says:
    8 April, 2016 at 10:09 am

    The film of the LGBTI hustings event was uploaded and edited by Stonewall – just had e-mail from them.

    Ruby replies

    Did they say why they edited it?

  323. galamcennalath says:

    Breeks says:

    “Suddenly we ARE the crisis”

    I agree. It should be clear after the Dundee QT that the BBC will oppose Scottish democracy with everything at its disposal.

    They are a clear and present danger to Scottish aspirations. However, we also have to understand that we are now seen as a clear and present danger to the Union which the BBC exists to protect.

  324. winifred mccartney says:

    I did ask them why but no response to that just that they had uploaded and edited it.

  325. Molly says:

    But the BBC are still doing it .Yesterday passed through a neighbours living room on the way to the kitchen . David Cameron’s talk ‘ to young people ‘ for staying in Europe was being broadcast live. A coffee and a biscuit later, on my way out , he was still being broadcast .

    Now I’m not sure how I’m going to vote in the EU but imagine if that had been DC broadcasting against the Scottish Referendum ?

    The excuse on QT last night from Anna Soubry was ( above the pamphlets being delivered ) the people need to know where their Govt stand – divided as far as I can see but I’d bet that would be the BBCs excuse too

  326. Almannysbunnet says:

    OMG! According to David Cameron’s spokesman (spindoctor) the reason it took him 5 days to finally admit that he had indeed sold shares from the Panama account are:
    He was distracted with the EU in/out referendum.

    Next, his “entirely human reaction” was to protect his family and his dead father, who is not able to defend himself from attacks by the press. Cue the violins.

    What absolute bollocks!

  327. Macart says:


    Yeah, clocked that. Still laughing. 😀

    Ayup, apparently Mr Hague, who compiled thone wee report for the Tory’s campaign, may not be as objective and non partisan as billed.

    I’m shocked! SHOCKED I tell you!

  328. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Does anyone know where Willie Rennie is?

    Yesterday he was annoying birds of prey somewhere, and the day before he was off to an adventure park, whizzing through the trees along a wire.

    What’s he up to today?

  329. Iain says:

    Since the referendum I no longer watch tv. I’m sure I am not alone. My kids almost never watch terrestrial tv. Society has moved on. Almost everyone I know is deeply sceptical about anything the bum has to say. The bbc and television is going the way of dead tree newspapers. The bbc knows it’s market is declining and it’s influence decreasing. The yoons know that their war to keep us in the empire is lost, it is only a matter of timing when Scotland becomes independent. The future for Scotland is bright, our southern neighbor’s I don’t know.

  330. heedtracker says:

    Capella says:
    8 April, 2016 at 12:24 am
    @ heedtracker
    Dire. That Guardian puff piece for Ruth Davidson, while at the same time trying to find something positive to say about Labour, surpasses ignorance and coasts into delusional. The BTL comments are also a wonder to behold. It’s like living in a Jonathan Swift novel. For the sake of you sanity – stop reading that bilge!

    I think they’re fascinating though. I read it over 30 years thinking that, whilst they never gave their Scotland region a mention, they were actual progressive liberals, sometimes even radical.

    The fact that the Graun’s turned out to be nothing more than the Daily Telegraph, for those who dont want to be seen reading the Telegraph, is frightfully grotesque but liars and hypocrites on this scale often are.

    That The Graun gives Ruthie babes a free pass on all kinds of tory UKOK horrors, sums it all up.

    Polly Toynbee owns a second home in Tuscany and educated her children at private schools.

    The thug that did this to Scottish democracy

    is now a big shot at Cambridge or Oxford. Cant mind which because it makes no odds.

  331. Marcia says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    Pressing wild flowers.

  332. heedtracker says:

    Rusbridger’s contribution to Scottish democracy. I broke the link

  333. Jack Murphy says:

    Nana said at 9:22am:-
    “O/T links
    Torquil unhappy, what a shame ……………………”

    The links is an Archived link to Labours’ RedTop in Scotland. We know the one—Scotland’s Champion. 🙁
    Mr Crichton concludes:-
    “I guess it’s a question of trust.”

    You bet it is Mr Crichton—-you and Scotland’s Champion have been rumbled.

  334. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Marcia –


    You can imagine wee Willie running through the fields, laughing his head off for no obvious reason. It’d be like the start of Little House on the Prairie…

  335. Proud Cybernat says:

    Mr Crichton concludes:-
    “I guess it’s a question of trust.”

    Two words Torcuil: “The Vow”.

    Aye, TRUST.

    You fud.

  336. Ruby says:

    winifred mccartney says:
    8 April, 2016 at 10:42 am

    I did ask them why but no response to that just that they had uploaded and edited it.

    Ruby replies

    Not a very clever move on the part of Stonewall!

    What good is an edited version of the event?

    We’ll need to be on the ball with any future Periscope videos and make sure we download the unedited version before it gets deleted.

  337. Fred says:

    Rock couldnae extract piss from Jackie Baillie’s Tena Pants! 🙂

  338. winifred mccartney says:

    Ruby I e-mailed stonewall again and asked them why it was edited – they said it was a camera breakdown and technical issues and they were sorry I was unhappy – and the band played believe it if you like.

  339. Derick for Yell says:

    Capella says: 8 April, 2016 at 12:40 am

    I used to read Riverbend also. Thank you for that.

  340. Capella says:

    Confession: I used to read the Guardian too.
    But, like “Have I Got News for You”, Private Eye, the News Quiz and so on, it all took on a sinister anti-Scottish, anti-democratic aura after the Indyref campaign started.
    An allergy has developed to the Southern whinge.

  341. old dearie says:

    Thanks for all these links Nana. I miss seeing Paul Mason on Ch4 news. What’s the story about that?

  342. Ruby says:

    winifred mccartney says:
    8 April, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    Ruby I e-mailed stonewall again and asked them why it was edited – they said it was a camera breakdown and technical issues and they were sorry I was unhappy – and the band played believe it if you like.

    Ruby replies

    Aye right!

    Did you watch this video

    That seems to be a recording of the Periscope broadcast however it does cut off before the end.

    You never know we might eventually be able to find an unedited version of the whole event.

    The internet is a wonderful place.

    Perhaps the ‘alert reader’ who gave Stu the sound recording of Ruth Davidson might have it.

  343. Nana says:

    @old dearie, you are very welcome.

    Here’s the guardian piece on why Paul left channel4

    He did this interview with indy live a couple of weeks ago

  344. old dearie says:


    Thanks. Shame he can’t see PQ at work and write about that.

  345. fletch49er says:

    Oooh! He’s the spitting image of a young Will Young!

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