The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


The panellist and the activist

Posted on April 06, 2016 by

Those of you who read our post of earlier today probably didn’t feel there was anything ambiguous going on in it. When Ruth Davidson intervened in an election debate to protest that the chair, the BBC’s Louise White, was being unfair to Nicola Sturgeon, it was pretty obvious who she meant, and White’s response removed any doubt.

Which makes this eye-witness account of the event, spotted by an alert reader this afternoon, odd in several ways.

panellist2

Let’s count them up.

Firstly, it’s somewhat curious that ubiquitous TV and newspaper pundit David Torrance chose not to identify Davidson as the “panellist” in question. Only when pressed by another Twitter user did he specify who he meant, and even then professed to be uncertain who she’d been talking about:

panellist3

Even more strangely, when challenged on the matter today, Torrance said that “in context” it WAS clear who Davidson was referring to.

torrancecontext

That’s a bewildering comment to make for someone who was actually in the room watching – how could you possibly interpret the remarks out of context if you saw the entire event live and in person?

But it got even weirder still when Torrance wrote the proceedings up for his new diary column in the Scottish Review.

torrancereview

It’s somewhat uncommon for Mr Torrance to criticise Ruth Davidson at all, but to accuse her of doing so in order to “curry favour with SNP activists” – not something Ms Davidson is noted for – is matched for bizarreness only by the last paragraph’s apparent description of the head of the Scottish Conservatives as a “political activist”.

(It’s not exactly untrue, of course, but it’s an unusual way to describe a leader.)

torrance

torrancelangforsyth2

If you’d asked us before this election campaign started to think of anything more unlikely than David Torrance huffily slagging off Ruth Davidson for attacking the BBC in defence of Nicola Sturgeon, we’d probably have struggled, readers. We do hope it hasn’t peaked too soon.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

357 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
bob sinclair

There you go, the dangers of coming into contact with a ‘Scottish Resistance’ T Shirt. He’s been assimilated.

Dawn in NL

By political activist, I would say he was referring to the lady in the audience, and not Ruth.

David Wardrope

Can only imagine that dyed in the wool Tory Torrance has had his nose put out of joint by one of his own being a decent human being to someone in SNP.

Colin Church

Scottish review obviously didn’t get the “insert new picture here” memo! Ha Ha.

NeoconNat

The treasonous sycophants in the media and elsewhere have a system that allows them to contort reality, lie, attack, bully, and generally treat the Scottish people like shit — Sturgeon is the Scottish people’s representative and for that reason she is fair game — and that usually plays out without any concern about having to explain themselves.

There’s nothing unusual about this sort of stuff if you study say America’s role in South & Latin America, the Middle East, or British Empire politics.

I’m sure nobody wants to hear me bang on about Ruth being principled, and I have no desire to, but I would urge that you take her objection at face value here.

I’m no longer a member of the Scottish Conservative Party but I’d say the majority of those in it believe in fair play, playing by the rules, and are conscientious, like myself.

galamcennalath

Torrance highlights that the BBC are they main cheerleader for the Union and unofficial opposition to the Scottish Government, and as such, should be completely beyond criticism from any Unionist quarter.

That’s Davidson telt! The tail shouldn’t try to wag the dog.

dmac57

How do the likes of Torrance keep track of the new reality they create with every article, diary entry or social media post? Do they keep a second diary, as a factual reference, or simply process what they have written to their long term memory and somehow wipe the truth?
Either may, it must be incredibly difficult to maintain, never mind trying to recall ‘facts’ in conversation at a later date.

Calum Craig

He doesn’t like you using that Thatcher / Major picture…

HandandShrimp

This is quite an odd campaign all in.

However, it is clear that breaking ranks on the SNPBad line causes confusion amongst the ranks.

Alex Grant

On Twitter I once accused Torrance of being a Tory and he came back to me denying in and said if I could show two examples of pro Tory comment he’d buy me lunch!
He’s obviously trying to show his non pro Tory credentials :)!

Croompenstein

Louise White rhymes with shite… 🙂

David Torrance rhymes with an abhorrence… 🙂

schrodingerscat

lol, on twitter,
Even Kezia Dugdale had SNP as her first choice.

Dorothy Devine

OT but on the news right now apparently too much money spent on the Stay campaign – leaving the leave campaign struggling with funds.

Now where has that happened before eh??

No-one seems to remember . Last time it happened according to ITN, it had something to do with Harold Wilson – dearie me !

Dorothy Devine

Anyone seen the Greens ppb ?
Worth a look on the Guardian site – really dreadful!

schrodingerscat

being a life long snp member and yes supporter, fairplay is only a pipe dream amongst us, it is never has been or is going to be as far as we are concerned.

difficult to feel anything else but contempt for those who support organisations who promote their campaign as project fear.

FairFerfochen

@Colin Church

Yeah, but have they cropped that tank-top?
A crop-top.

I feel cheated..

[…] Wings Over Scotland The panellist and the activist Those of you who read our post of earlier today probably didn’t feel there was […]

jimnarlene

Quixotic eh? I think Mr Torrance has a bit of Don Quixote, in his own mind. Shouting at windmills, and talking nonsense, only to serve his own ego and bank balance.

Illy

That was probably the best applause Ruthie got the whole time too…

I’m personally surprised the media isn’t going with the “SNP supporters give massive applause to Ruth Davidson” spin, instead.

Legerwood

It must have been a strange evening at this LGBT debate for Ms Dugdale knowing, as she did, that the next day the interview in which she announced her relationship with a woman was going to be published.

Grouse Beater

Anything to declare Mr Shill?: link to wp.me

shiregirl

Nyaff. And an irrelevant.

Me thinks he likes the sound of his own voice and looking at his own publicity.

He annoys me.

heedtracker

The only thing offensive, or continues to offend, is being compelled to pay for the BBC and BBC Scotland by law. BBC is merely Daily Telegraph tv and radio and that would all be fine, if I didn’t have to pay for it. Because that is what freedom of speech is all about.

yesindyref2

What a twonk. Not one of his best days.

That first photo somehow reminds me of John Major’s “Family Values” for some odd unaccountable reason.

Robert Roddick

This was a clear attempt by Torrance to deny the facts to which he was a witness. Would anyone like to call this guy as a witness in their defence?

broonpot

I don’t think the campaign has peaked. However (Mr)Torrance has obviously peaked (& climaxed?), is now entering his dotage and hopefully eventual decline evidenced by his new(?) diary column.

I feel sure that by scribbling for and being edited by the wicked whinge of the west his ‘slugs’ will mutate into the angry old man rantings so typical of the anti-independence Scottish rag (Review) which continues to masquerade as a vehicle for the literati allegedly ‘to stimulate discussion and revitalisation of thought and debate in Scotland’ (cough, cough)

mealer

David Torrance.Theres a wrongness about him.

G. Campbell

Kenneth Roy, SNPBad Review, even worse than usual:

scottishreview.net/KennethRoy44a.html

“Within a few days, Nicola Sturgeon’s complacency about the nature of Scottish society was brutally exposed by a succession of disturbing events. A Glasgow Muslim, Asad Shah, who had posted an Easter message of love and reconcilation, died in hospital after being attacked outside his shop.”

Attacked by a man from the Scottish city of Bradford.

“What is less often reported is that, in an ethnic minority population estimated at 850,000, by far the largest minority – 417,000 – is officially classified as ‘White Other British’ and that the White Other Brits are overwhelmingly English. If we exclude them, Scotland’s multi-cultural society seems to amount to 433,000 people, only 8% of the total population.”

Shocking statistics. Westminster’s immigration policy fails Scotland yet again.

“By comparison, England is a model of cultural diversity. Its population includes around 1.4 million people of Indian ethnicity and around 1.1 million Pakistani. These facts suggest that the first minister was wrong to single out Scotland as ‘a diverse multi-cultural society’ as if it had some special claim to the status.

Nicola: “Its a nice sunny day, isn’t it?”

Yoons: “How dare Nicola suggest the sun only shines in Scotland.”

“Uncomfortably from Ms Sturgeon’s perspective, it is in the first minister’s own constituency on Glasgow’s south side that racial tensions are most pronounced. Govanhill, where several thousand Slovak Roma are living in congested tenement flats with limited access to benefits and little understanding of basic English, has become a notorious ghetto of social deprivation and increasingly bitter cultural differences. “

Benefits = Westminster. Tenements = Labour-run Glasgow City Council.

“Scotland’s chief statistician has issued a set of little-noticed figures which show that, in referendum year, ‘White British’ people were the most common ethnic group to be targeted in racist incidents in Scotland – 1,423 such incidents were recorded in 2014, an increase of 284 on the previous year, compared with 1,107 cases of racism directed at the Pakistani community.”

Kenneth Roy had a dig at the English for rejecting Gordon Brown on BBC Two’s Scotland 2014 on December the 1st of that year. There was an eye-rolling look of ‘what are they like’ as he said it. Fair shocked me it did. You wouldn’t see that sort of anti-English/anti-White British thing from our Nicola. She’s much better than that. Anyway, I’ve still got the video on a hard drive if Kenneth is thinking of suing.

Frances

Mr Torrance refers to L White Media.

Louise White is not therefore at these hustings as a BBC employee.

It may be that Ms White is not a BBC employee at all but a private individual (company) brought in by the BBC (don’t know as I do not listen) – hence the attack on Ruth Davidson and on anyone complaining about “The Rangers”.

Who is Ms White?

Dave McEwan Hill

NeoconNat at 6.17

An interesting post with a bit of truth in it. The old Scottish Tory bore no resemblance to the party in government in London now
– which is why there are not a lot of Tories left in Scotland.

Murdo Fraser had it nearly right. Pity he didn’t have the balls to follow his intuition to its logical conclusion.
Though I could never vote Tory I could live with a Scottish Tory party seeking power from the Scottish people and answering to them.

Breeks

Just in, and catching up, but this just oozes deliberate setup.

I think a penny has dropped somewhere down in London that the BBC Propaganda is damaged goods, and if a Better Together nose-bag points it out, they can all sit back and cluck about their integrity and even handed commentary.

The BBC pedals damaged goods. They know it. We know it. They know we know it.

Don’t trust a Davidson Tory, she’s one of the worst at butting in to screech some point or other and talk over someone else’s answer. She suddenly develops a caring personality and moral ethics? Nice try Ruthie, but no sale. Not buying anything you’re selling.

This all just stinks of gamesmanship and posturing for effect. The tone in the voices just reeks of insincerity and a lack of spontaneity. Somebody is playing games.

Dave McEwan Hill

Could we leave the hapless Kezia alone? Some people are beginning to sympathise with her and feel sorry for her which is no use to us

Gary45%

There was an arsehole named Torrance,
Who’s opinion of the SNP was abhorrent,
He thought he was slick, but was a bit if a prick,
That sums up the arsehole called Torrance.

April the eighth is a very special date,
When everyone should do a jig in public,
If by chance you do the Thatcher’s dead dance,
You’ll piss off the arsehole called Torrance.

SNPx2

Hoss Mackintosh

The strange thing about Torrance and Kezia is that both their dads are SNP activists.

“Although I was an apolitical 10-year-old rather than a political obsessive, the impression I retain of leafleting and poster-pasting with my Nationalist father was of hope trying very hard to triumph over experience. ”

From…
link to archive.is

I think Torrance’s dad also stood for the SNP in council elections – not sure if he ever won. perhaps that is why Torrance is so emotionally damaged?

Apparently his dad is still going strong and occasionally works as the Barman in the SNP club in Edinburgh.

It is a funny old world.

Tam Jardine

David Torrance wrote a book on Thatcher and her ‘relationship’ with Scotland, another on the secretary of states for Scotland and yet another on his hero George Younger.

I have not heard if he is planning to revise any of these after the revelations that the treasury wiped millions year after year from the Scottish block grant in invisible cuts throughout the eighties unknown to the public.

I think the fact that the Barnett Formula was effectively cancelled during the mid eighties during a sustained campaign by the treasury to reduce Scottish provision again, unreported and unknown to the public would bring a fresh perspective for David’s work.

The collusion of George Younger in these cuts, the treasury’s plan to cut still further by carrying out a new Needs Based Assessment and his eventual exasperation, anger and disillusionment in yet further cuts planned during peak oil and at a time the Scottish block grant was nosediving in relation to all other parts of the UK…. I think this could give David material to revise his now outdated and inaccurate editions.

I don’t think a book on the Secretary of States for Scotland is complete without reference to George Younger’s fine demolition of the treasury’s stat based ‘subsidy junckie’ none-sense. Or Malcolm Rifkind, new to the job writing a letter bewildered at the level of concessions given up by his predecessor and concerned that the tories would be finished in Scotland if Scotland woke up to the fact it was being systematically crippled by growth sapping cuts at a time England local authorities spending was rocketing and the UK was being propped up by that messy black Scotland region stuff.

Or maybe he’s done with the 80s. Or maybe he is working on this all as we speak. Anyway David… if you want a pithy and brutal epilogue for the next editions, you know where to find me.

Derick fae Yell

Anent political activists (tenuous link alert), there are some rum goings on up north

Chairman John of the rabidly Unionist ‘Wir Shetland’ has emerged from his Arrochar lair to lay into one of the three Independent Councillors who initially supported their group.

Her crime: to ask how the decision of the supposedly non-party grouping to support Tavish Scott was arrived at. Not by a vote of the membership, clearly.

They have supported Tavish because to stand their own candidate would expose the true level of support they enjoy. <5% I suspect, being generous. Smell that astroturf.

Derick fae Yell
jimnarlene

@ Tam Jardine,

I’m originally from Ayr, and we called our local MP of the day George Disappointed Younger; as whenever he was being interviewed on a factory shut down, or other job losses, he was always disappointed.

How the hell he can be a hero, to anyone excepting his family, I can’t fathom.

Marcia

I believe Mr Torrance now lives in Hackney where I lived once. I can publically announce there is no connection between me and the diminutive reporter.

Tam Jardine

jimnarlene

I will confess- I haven’t read any of David’s work aside from some of his pieces in the herald when long ago I used to buy the paper and a few of his guardian columns now. So maybe ‘hero’ is the wrong phrase in this context, but David describes his “A Life well Lived” so:

“Above all, it charts a fascinating and varied life of committed service to Scotland and the UK.”

Surely in the context of Thatcher’s reign in the 1980 the measure for a department head would be to avoid their department being the one stigmatised, cut again and again whilst being simultaneously asset stripped and milked of her wealth.

In that context George Younger can hardly be considered a success in serving both Scotland and the UK. He served the treasury.

Bruce Hosie

I stopped reading the Scottish Review a long time back when Kenneth Roy suddenly got very tiresome, add in Torrance and it is probably not worth the hassle any more to make the effort. The hatred of the SNP and NS is just so boring and petty, they just hate that many Scottish voters just will not be told what to think anymore so they use every tool (Torrance/BBCScotland) to spread their hate.

Robert Louis

David Torrance, in my opinion, is not especially talented at writing. Seriously. There are many other political commentators of all persuasions who write with greater depth, sincerity and understanding than this Torrance bloke, and none of them pretends to be Salmond’s biographer. Lightweight might be a good word.

To express confusion, as he did, at such a simple to understand event, demonstrates my point exactly.

ArtyHetty

So Ruthie tank commander mustered applause from the audience for standing up to the nasty bbc.
I wonder, did she get applause for anything else she said on the programme? How about, prescriptions charges, applause, tuition fees, yeh!!

What an amazing, caring, thoughtful politician, we have been wrong about her being a heartless tory all along, awwww. Aye right.

I agree with other comments on this whole episode appearing a tad orchestrated fir the benefit of Ruthie and the ebc.

Never, ever trust a tory, blue, red, or yellow.

ArtyHetty

Yes I know, the programme was about lgbt, but I do wonder if RD would have been awarded such applause had she not feigned such concern for NS,

Re, Bruce Hosie.
Yep I used to read the Scottish review but ditched it years ago, far too narrow minded.

Provost Sludden

The BBC are the Unionists last chance and must be protected at all costs.

There was an item on the One Show this evening about the new Forth Crossing which the presenters, aided by rabid BritNat Ian Hislop, managed to turn the whole story into an attack on the Scottish Government for not using enough British Steel in tne construction.

Thepnr

David Torrence is an asset to the Yes movement, if you need to persuade someone of media bias just ask them to read a Torrence article then direct them here (or elsewhere) to show them the truth.

It’s inconceivable that a journalist who actually attended an event can be confused by what he witnessed such as is reported here. Of course he knew exactly what happened and has just chosen to put his own spin on that.

Anybody that can pose for a picture flanked by Milk Snatcher Thatcher and Grey Man Major can’t be all bad.

Just a tad misguided his mum and dad might say.

Nana

O/T

A little light relief

link to thecanary.co

snode1965

No one detests the BBC more than me, but credit where it’s due. I have just watched the final episode in a series called Scotland; the promised land, and credit where it’s due….this series is an absolute marvel. A must watch for all Wingers.

heedtracker

Toryboy Torrance will like this next full on Sturgeon monstering from rancid The Graun very UKOK much. Must be an election soon. Hope to god this savaging from yoonster tory media doesn’t work.

link to archive.is

“Nicola Sturgeon denies knowledge of allegations in row over” anything the UKOK creep show can think of:D

mealer

G.Campbell 8.04
Who is Kenneth Roy?

Ghillie

My first impression was that Ruth Davidison was in ‘right on’ mode with the audience about equality and fair treatment. But that is maybe an unfair assessment.

Remember a while back Nicola Sturgeon, quite rightly, stuck up for Ruth Davidson when she was subject to some nasty comments and maybe that decency imformed Ruth’s intervention this time. (Though Ruth has stuck the knife in plenty times before when she should have known better!)

As for Torrance, he’s just a nasty wee nyaff which explains all of his dismal behaviour. And Mistress White falls into that category too.

mealer

Snode1965 10.10pm
Aye,cracking programme.

Ghillie

The BBC?

Gutter media.

Time it was flushed away.

geeo

Slow news day…?

12 minutes of american election pish, now its Natalie bennett telling us that Scotland should not be bounced into a 2nd indyref if there is a Brexit !!

Then she says Scottish greens are PRO indy and it is up to the Scottish people when there is another referendum !!!!!

Emm….SCOTLAND tonight ffs !!

Coming up after the news, how will ‘rangers’ being ‘back’ in the prem league affect Scottish football…..!

Give me strength ffs !!

Macart

Oh Jeez! BRAIN FART KLAXON 😀

Mr Torrance offering a masterclass in disingenuous mincespeak. What a spot the poor fella found himself in. Criticize Ruth and defend the unimpeachable BBC, or plead pure hazy ignorance of the entire event and remain true to his political heroes?

Such a card that Torrance. 😀 LOL

Tackety Beets

Torrence must know he is on our /Rev’s radar so why does he feel it appropriate to pedal his p&$h ? ah yes cause, like the majority of the BUM ,its what they have done for so long they cannae help themselves.

Why change a habit of a lifetime.

Kez & SNP connection ,many have posted about it on Wings over the years,its not news , is it ?

Did we have all this faf when Hearts went up last year @LWhitemedia

Valerie

Nice collection of snaps there, of red and blue Tories. All that’s missing is one of Savile in there.

It must be hard to keep tabs on who you are shouting baaaad at these days in the media, but you always have to expect the unexpected.

I can understand Mr Torrance wetting his pants when the natural order of the world, is turned on its head, and a Tory does something like mention fairness towards a member of SNP.
(Even if I think it was a cynical move by Davidson)

A horrible atmosphere, a bad smell, fair put a downer on an evening of SNP baaaad.

TD

Sorry – just posted this on the last thread in error.

O/T, but did anyone see Kez on EBC RS tonight? Talking about APD she said:
“This is a regressive tax. The more wealthy you are the more you benefit from Air Passenger Duty. The wealthiest in Scotland benefit from around £73 a year……”

As always, she has confused the hell out of me. My questions for her are:

If APD is regressive, surely you should want to get rid of it?

In what way do the wealthy benefit from APD to the tune of £73 a year?

Did you mean to say “Cutting APD is a regressive thing to do. The more wealthy you are the more you benefit from cuts to APD. The wealthiest in Scotland will benefit by around £73 a year if it is cut”? (That at least would be coherent, if misguided.)

What muddled thinking are you going to entertain us with tomorrow?

I haven’t been able to take Kez seriously for a while, but it’s getting really embarrassing now.

Rock

Is Newsnet Scotland still paying this twat to write articles?

Rock

Breeks,

“Don’t trust a Davidson Tory, she’s one of the worst at butting in to screech some point or other and talk over someone else’s answer. She suddenly develops a caring personality and moral ethics? Nice try Ruthie, but no sale. Not buying anything you’re selling.”

Davidson is the most disgusting and dishonest politicial in Scotland, in my view.

Her every move is calculated for her own benefit.

She did not do it for Nicola.

Dan Huil

Aye, I agree with all the bbc-being-as-usual-sickenly-britnat-biased posts but folks that is going to continue until we actually do something about it.

If you truly believe in an independent Scotland do not pay the britnat bbc licence tax.

Honestly, it doesn’t hurt to cancel the DD. And the consequences, so-called, are nothing compared to the consequences faced by Scotland’s patriots of the past.

mealer

TD 11.10
Aye.Its got to the stage that you can’t really fathom out what she’s trying to say.And we’re half interested in what she’s got to say.I think the public will have given up on her long before Election Day.

Clapper57

Tis the nature of the yoon beast to feign confusion when confronted with reality .

I am sure had the shoe been on the other foot and Ms Sturgeon had highlighted Ms Davidson being subjected to a more rigorous interrogation then Mr Torrance would have found more clarity in his understanding. In fact I am sure he would have concluded this all by himself prior to any intervention and would also have been oblivious, or rather not mention, to any change in atmosphere.

We know you are a Tory Mr Torrance and we know how you feel about the SNP so your opinion is tainted and thus disregarded as an objective piece of reporting of the events in this debate.

Ms Davidson is the leader of your chosen political party Mr Torrance and if you so readily question her motives then perhaps you should also question your own motives to, perhaps tis you who has a hidden agenda .

SNP x 2

Still Positive.

Kez and APD.

I am assuming she means the better-off fly more frequently so that is why they will benefit – but I doubt she could articulate it.

Someone further up the thread made a comment about Torrance’s “skills” as a writer – when I bought the Herald I could barely manage into the second column before giving up.

As a retired English teacher if any of my S5/6 class had produced the “quality” of Torrance’s ramblings I would have sent it back with ‘ put it in English I can understand and comment on.’

SNP x 2 and EU In.

Ruby

link to tinyurl.com

Scottish LGBTI Hustings

Dr Jim

The Green party’s Natalie Bennett says (read this carefully)
The SCOTTISH Greens support Independence but we’re “better together” on Europe decision
It’s up to the SCOTTISH people to decide if they want another Referendum but we’re…… “better together” deciding that

The SCOTTISH Greens NOT the Green party !!

Now she didn’t dance when she slurped out that pile of bilge she just shifted her seating and flicked her eyes from right to left

They’ll be handing out free weed so nobody notices the 60% Tax policy next….. Which Natalie Bennett never said she supported or not
Better decide that together eh

The Green party = Liberal Democrats for people who knit Raffia

Brian McGrath

Rev can we just get a button on the forums that says SNP Bad and be done with it? Cheers

Dr Jim

Willie Rennie shouting his mouth off about SNP dirty tricks on Kezia
This just in (a rumour at the moment)I’ve just been told Jeff Dugdale says the leak was a Liberal Democrat Councillor

I’m sure somebody will tell us the facts

Although to be fair on Kezia so what!! I worked for the British army and Air force on a few occasions (I’m so sorry)

Iain More

Dr Jim says:

7 April, 2016 at 12:07 am

“The Green party’s Natalie Bennett says (read this carefully)
The SCOTTISH Greens support Independence but we’re “better together” on Europe decision
It’s up to the SCOTTISH people to decide if they want another Referendum but we’re…… “better together” deciding that

The SCOTTISH Greens NOT the Green party !!

Now she didn’t dance when she slurped out that pile of bilge she just shifted her seating and flicked her eyes from right to left

They’ll be handing out free weed so nobody notices the 60% Tax policy next….. Which Natalie Bennett never said she supported or not
Better decide that together eh

The Green party = Liberal Democrats for people who knit Raffia”

The Greens aren’t to be trusted. How to knife the Scottish Greens in the back in the midst of an election campaign. How indeed to sabotage it and the objective of Scottish Indy in one flying visit. The Greens south of the border have form for it. Not lest Caroline Lucas voting with the Tories and great abstainers to water down the Scotland Bill.

Anybody who follows the Scottish Local Council Election Results will see that the Greens??? are treacherous as hell.

I seen Natalie Bennett on the box and naturally the presenters let her dig a hole and she jumped right into it.

Iain More

David Torrance is one of the reasons why I stopped funding Newsnet Scotland. He was always a treacherous Brit Nat in my eyes!

yesindyref2

OT
I’m kind of busy and getting lazy these days, but thanks to a relatively sensible Unionist poster in Herald who quoted a passage I was easily able to find this about the China Railways Group, the GPFG and the Norweigan Council of Ethics.

link to etikkradet.no

Note this well from the report: “At the end of 2013, the GPFG owned shares in CRG worth NOK 306,000,000, equivalent to a 0.47 per cent stake in the company.”

So the GPFG had already invested in CRG, a relatively small amount of less than £30 million (45 million USD), a drop in the ocean compared to the total fund.

What they were doing in 2014 was checking out all GPFG investments after the event to see if there was corruption involved in the companies they were investing in.

They asked questions, including about internal workings of the CRG. If they had had an MOU – a Memorandum Of Understanding – in place with CRG, which included, as in the Scottish Government one, setting up a “Framework of Confidentiality”, then perhaps CRG would have been more willing to answer their questions about matters which would probably be, in any normal company, classsified as “For Internal Use Only” – a fairly low level of congidentiality, but a neccessary one to avoid competitive oversight (basic industrial espionage!!!).

The SG “Deal” with CRG was no more than setting up an MOU.

jamesCaithness

Wonder of those photo’s in recent days wher Ruthie was caught, clapping a dog who had an SNP collar on, or the wee boy who had a skateboard with SNP stickers all over the bottom, which looked like she was caught out.

Could irt be possible that the Establishment was trying to tie the tories to the SNP? In a vain attempt to corrupt people’s thinking of the SNP?

yesindyref2

@Iain More
Goes back to October I think, the Greens Conference:

link to stv.tv

“We propose a citizens’ initiative so that it is the public who say when they are ready for that question to be put, not political parties carving up a deal behind closed doors.”

Sounds worrying but as the article says: “The terms and threshold of such a petition have yet to be decided, and a Scottish Green spokesman acknowledged that the policy could also open the door to a rival petition to halt a second referendum.

Myself as a good idea I’d see it more as an addition to, not a replacement for, the rights of the SG to call a referendum.

Sandy

Derik fae Yell.
Is Travis Scott the only “gentleman farmer” in Shetland?
Who looks after his beasts? I always thought it was a 7 day week job.

Connor McEwen

link to bbc.co.uk

Fair watching.

Sandy

Shame on is all,no mention of “The Declaration”,

jdman

Woof
john king says:
19 November, 2014 at 7:00 pm

Seasick Dave says
“And why is she wearing Gordon Brown’s suit?”

Its not Gordon browns suit,
its her daddies,
she’s also got his size 12 brogues on,
it jist a wee experiment, ken?

Talk aboot precog…precoc…seein the future!

Ken500

Westminster is run by a bunch of corrupt, tax evading chancers.Westminster is corrupt wasting £Billions of tax payers money on HS2 and Hinkley Point. The Tory slush fund.

Westminster corruption costs Scotland £10Billion+ a year on policies the majority do not want. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. The Tories have not protected NHS or cut the debt. They are liars. The Unionists want Scotland to pay more tax for Westminster corruption.

Scotland has lost £4Billion+ a year in Oil Revenues. 60/80% tax when the price has fallen 75%. Scotland has lost £3Billion? A year in tax evasion. HMRC not fit for purpose. UK tax laws are not enforced. Scotland has lost £1Billion a year on Trident/illegal wars. £1Billion on a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. £4Billion a year on loan repayments it doesn’t borrow and spend. £13Billion a year which could be better spent. Five years = £65Billion which could be better spent.

Vote SNP. Vote for Independence. No more Tory rule or Westminster lies.

Breeks

@jamesCaithness 1.23am

Could be on to something James.

Somebody somewhere wants the Tories and SNP looking chummy so the SNP is damaged by association.

If you think that’s one for the conspiracy theorists, just remember what Fibber Carmichael the LibDem Bruiser was actually fibbing about; Nicola Sturgeon’s secret sympathy for the Tories.

I don’t trust the BBC on anything, on any level. They are our enemy.

Jack Collatin

Red Blue and Yellow Tory ‘Transformational’ (it has replaced ‘hard working Families’ in the spin doctors’ line to take briefing for all Hues of Right Wingism)policy is:-
‘What this country needs is a good war’.

Torrance will not jeopardise his appearance money from the Beeb…Even if it means being ‘confused’ about wee Ruth’s momentary bout of contrived Fair Playness.

She’ll be back to her paper waving heckling self for the next Unionist Media Leaders’ debate.

Another Union Dividend

When someone exposes Ms Dugdale as Fi Fi, a former daily Scotsman online troll, will po faced willie rennie report it to the information commissioner ?

Dugdale is now claiming she can’t remember applying for a job with the SNP before she joined the Labour Party after getting one from George Foulkes.

Nana

O/T links

link to indyref2.scot

link to scottovoce.wordpress.com

Scots-scientists-offer-fresh-hope-in-treatment-of-asthma
link to archive.is

HMRC under fire
link to patreon.com

Nana

O/T links

link to evolvepolitics.com

Kincora-why-london-must-not-be-allowed-to-suppress-the-awful-truth
link to archive.is

The-uk-s-growing-aid-budget-has-become-a-lucrative-business
link to archive.is

link to thecanary.co

Nana

O/T

Have read a lot re the panama papers leak over the last few days, too many to post. I see a pattern emerging with the media being selective in what they choose to reveal.

This is an excellent summary

link to cultureandpolitics.org

ScottieDog

@nana
Thanks for that. There is a good take on it on this week’s keiser report too..
link to rt.com

Bill

Ruth is just plain envious of Nicola for being interrogated as FM. Ruth was only spitting her dummy out at not being centre of attention.

As for Torrence he’s only interested in himself. A self appointed and promoted weasel.

Bill

OT

Re Panama Papers – it’s all here https://panamapapers.icij.org

No need to be drip fed by the media.

Almannysbunnet

As we all know North Sea oil is outwith the remit of the Scottish government. Nexen petroleum are a major player around the world. They were a company that morphed from the Canadian arm of Occidental into CanOxxy then Nexen.
In the NSea Nexen petroleum operate the Buzzard and Golden Eagle fields, 80 miles off Aberdeen and the first and second largest oil discoveries in the past twenty years.
In 2014 CNOOC, China National Offshore Oil Corporation purchased Nexen for over $15 billion. CNOOC is the government owned company operating under the supervision of the State Council of the People’s Republic of China. Large parts of the Norths Sea are now Nationalized just not British nationalized.

Can’t remember any indignation from any political party or newspaper about this state of affairs which happened during the Con/Libs reign.
I’m surprised Willie, Ruth and whoever was Slab leader at the time, weren’t indignant. Away with your SNP “secret Chinese deal”, hypocrites.

Almannysbunnet

Louise White is having a go at Nicola, full on SNP bad. Ruthie and the others are standing mute like the impotent “leaders” they are.

Ruthie with tears in her eyes jumps in to defend poor wee Nicola. Mmmm.
Alternatively, Ruthie is really saying “what about meee, meee, over here Louise.”
I know which one I believe.

Robert Kerr

O/T re Panama Papers.

SLAB confidential by my drinking buddy Joe last night as a parting shot..

Alex Salmond is one of the guilty ones listed! I’ve to mark these words!

Desperation.

Joe considers AS as the AntiChrist personified!

Desperate times indeed.

SNP SNP EU

Free Scotland

This was the tank commander’s way of pretending to have great respect for voters who are straight, because, let’s face it, there are millions of voters out there who have more important things to think about than the over-sensitive souls who get all miffed if anyone treads on the toes of an L or a G or a B or a T or an I.

Macart

@Nana

Mr Margrain ain’t far wrong Nana. A good link and worth a read.

Hits the nail on the head vis a vis the complicity of the media fer sure. The corruption and hypocrisy is systemic and IMO that graph highlighting the home countries and involvement of their financial services says it all. Right after Hong Kong sits the UK.

Who knew?

Personally, I reckon the Icelanders may have the right idea. Hound the two faced, thieving, hypocritical b******ds out of office. Or perhaps we could simply opt for an independent parly of our own and tighten the leash on our politicians.

Either works for me. 🙂

Almannysbunnet

David Torrance is like the football manager being interviewed after the game.

“David what do you think of Ruth intervening to support Nicola?”

“Is that what happened? I was too far away from the action to see. I’ll need to have a look at the replay. If that’s what did happen then I’ve got to say it should be left up to referee Louise to sort out. They have a hard enough job under enormous pressure. It’s easy for pundits like Campbell, with their slow motion replays to catch these sort of things. In real time in the heat of the battle it’s much more difficult.”

Tinto Chiel

Still Positive. says:
Kez and APD.

Can she not just get pills for it like everybody else?

Almannysbunnet

@Free Scotland says:
7 April, 2016 at 9:01 am

Speed reading can be fraught with danger. I read the end of your post as
Lora Gora Bora Tora. I like it 🙂

Philip Maughan

Louise White’s defence that she was more interrogative with NS because her party had been in power for 9 years doesn’t stack up. Ruth Davidson’s party has been in power in the UK for 5 years so the Conservative Party’s UK policies (austerity, welfare cuts, benefit cuts, spare room subsidy) and how they impact on Scotland and what she might/would/could do to ameliorate these measures demand serious interrogation.

Capella

I see him as modelling himself on a 1950s retro preppy style; hence the pullovers and big specs.
That also explains the attitude that truth is whatever DT says it is. The facts fit the theory and not the other way around.

Breeks

Here’s another awkward thought…

Ruth Davidson, Unionist Tory, has now done more than any other leader to directly challenge the BBC’s management of political interviews.

SNP still pleading the 5th Amendment, and yet again, forfeiting the initiative on a defining issue of sovereign importance to forlornly see the matter delegated to an issue between the BBC and the “oh so shocked” aggrieved Tories, with the SNP merely bystanders looking on.

Off to bang my head against another brick wall…

Dorothy Devine

Almannysbunnet, me an’ a’!

Still positive,

‘ put it in English I can understand and comment on.’

“and on which I can comment” surely?

Les Wilson

Another tactic by Louise, was asking questions from the audience, where she pointed out someone, to hear what they had to say.

Funny enough, a lot were anti SNP. She would allow their waffle and then swiftly move on to the next one. Does here ear piece tell her who to ask a question from, that would seem logical.
Ie, ” You there in the top row with the blue jacket” (example)

They seem specially selected to me.

At various times this throws up anti SNP retoric, without the opportunity of letting them defend against the comment.

This is a BBC tactic, seen many many times. Louise seems very happy to use it. Cram as many SNP bad comments in to create a negative impression while not allowing SNP answers to these comments. Job done.

Peter McCulloch

Whatever Ruth Davidson’s agenda may or may not have been for pulling up the BBC’s Louise White’s hostile over her hostile questioning of Nicola Sturgeon.

Does anyone seriously expect to see factual reports from unionists such as David Torrance on what happened in a public meeting?

Nana

@Macart

I replied and it has disappeared. Not the first time I have tried to link to the true independence website so I blame it for the loss of my post.

Anyhow the gist was I agree with you entirely, it is by far the best blog I have read [so far]

I am proud of the Icelandic people for standing up and shouting enough is enough. The best pic I saw of the protests was an elderly lady with a catapult! Oh to ne that brave and to have the strength to use one.

Last year I linked to Gordon Bowden’s expose of all the fraudulent boiler rooms, shell companies etc. Don’t have time right now to link directly but for anyone interested just type Gordon Bowden into Google and off you go.

I’m away now to order the wood for a guillotine or two, by gods those French knew how to deal with corrupt filth.

Chic McGregor

ob. spoof redtop headline:

“Top Tory Faces Torrance Of Abuse!”

Not.

Ken500

BP the worse company in economic history. Dudley gets £14Million remuneration Supports the Tory decimation the Scottish Oil sector. 60/80% taxes when the price has fallen 75%. The Russians wanted to put him in jail for fraud.

Cameron/Osbourne are corrupt fraudsters, Tax evade and sanction and starve the vulnerable to death. Westminster is corrupt. Non Dom tax evaders finance Unionist/Green political Parties.

Big Jock

Breeks – Agree.

However if anyone in the SNP challenges the BBC. They have the back up of every newspaper and media outlet in the land. They will say they are paranoid control freaks, who want state control like North Korea. Look at the shit that gets thrown at them for merely suggesting broadcasting should be devolved. The fact that Ruth’s challenge was hidden from the public says it all.

heedtracker

BP the worse company in economic history.

Snatcher Thatcher’s greatest achievement, since her last one. I used to work for them but when Thatcher sold them for peanuts, everyone got given few grand and then made a contractor, on far lower pay, far worse conditions, far worse safety standards. BP are so shite, they considered pies and beans an offshore meal, shit pies too.

Top dudes became very rich, very sleazy dudes that had no morality whatsoever. Or, classic Thatcherites.

This degenerate showered his 20 something lover with millions.

link to nytimes.com

I know guys dead in their graves because of CEO managers like this.

Capella

O/T The last native St Kildan has died. Sad.
link to bbc.co.uk

call me dave

The accidental MSP leading the labour party.

“I feel lucky everyday” she says

“I’m going nowhere ” she says When asked if she will resign after a heavy defeat in the election.

“The polls are rubbish” she agrees.

All Deputy Deadwood in the various Herald articles this morning.

PS
Saw in my ‘left behind’ Record in the café that they have got a long list of SNP representatives who were standing for other parties sometime in the past!

Another day at the office.

Alan Mackintosh

Nana, as a hewer of wood, I may be of some use in the construction of said Madame.

heedtracker

Another day at the office.

Rancid The Graun leap to defend UKOK SLab again.

Did Kezia apply to join the SNP? NO! She cant remember doing that, classic political lie, SNP bad, for saying she did.

Why rancid The Graun thinks it’s SNP bad to make public that the leader of UKOK unionistas like SLab, wanted to join the SNP, is another teamGB mystery.

Or just another day at the office for hypocrites and liars that published Snowden and Wiki leaks. Can Guardian crew get any worse before Scotland does shake them off

link to archive.is

G5rr indeed.

“The Scottish Sun has not disclosed any source for the story or whether its journalists have seen the emails.
A breach of the Data Protection Act can be a criminal offence if the material has been stolen; otherwise, it is dealt with under civil law, resulting in a fine of up to £500,000.
John Bowers QC, an employment and data protection law specialist, said Dugdale’s communication would probably be treated as sensitive personal information for the purposes of the act.

Nana

Alan your offer duly noted. Hey we could be onto something here, a mail order kit perhaps.
Ach maybe with us being so civilised Madame might be too brutal and anyway the blades wouldn’t be sharp enough for those brass necks.

I know we should bring back the stocks instead, could be a money maker that, one in every town. I would happily chuck rotten veg at the thieving criminal mob.

Capella

@ Nana & Alan
I’ll take my knitting.

Fred

THe mask slipped, the Green & Unionist Party. SNP2

An empty taxi drove up & David Torrance stepped out!

Nana

@Capella

HaHa great stuff, the more the merrier. My friend says she’ll get the party started with a singalong.

Can’t imagine what she has in mind and having heard her singing it might be her getting pelted with rotten veg!

liz

Re the Panama papers, I think the knives are out for Dave otherwise they establishment would close ranks as they always do.

Could be because he supports Brexit but maybe the cons want him replaced by Boris?

Nana

O/T links

No sympathy for liars
link to archive.is

IMF plans new economic crisis before brexit
link to youtube.com

Peter McCulloch

OT I see the media reporting that Kezia Dugdale is accusing the SNP of ‘dirty tricks’ after a leaked email about her job application she Had “absolutely zero recollection” of making to SNP MSP.

Is this really a story?

Dorothy Devine

Now folks , are you all aware that Scotland is a tax haven similar to panama?
No?

Head to the Herald of Drivel and enjoy.

I’m still trying to work out if we are a tax haven why is HMRC so interested in taking money off my feeble money.

There is an airse of the first water below the line
( actually more than one) on the Herald article – makes me wonder if the paper is doing a Scotsman of past years and writing controversial comment to attract the unwitting.

ScottishPsyche

This supposed leak about Kezia Dugdale is very odd. A leak that was known to most people with even a vague interest in Scottish Politics. I suppose the Sun got nothing out of her personal relationship ‘admission’ so had to go with something else. What could be worse? She is a closet Nat!

Who does it benefit? Certainly not the SNP who have rightly played it down. Not Kezia Dugdale who was young and appears to have come late to whichever party would have her.

The one making the most capital appears to be Ruth Davidson – the ‘story’ is broken in MSM by a Murdoch paper. She dismisses the personal aspect giving faux sympathy and pretend empathy for Kez’s situation and then brings it round to the present.

Is Kezia still a soft Nat, she asks and puts more doubt into people’s heads.Meanwhile The LibDems rage about data protection and try to equate the situation to Carmichael.

Also people are saying it was a labour MP who leaked it. Is the David Anderson on this forum the MP or just a namesake?

Clapper57

o/t

Marie Rimmer trial on April 29th keep it in your diary , though if you forget then will be widely reported on Reporting Scotland and MSM….if she gets off !!! Another SNP witch hunt in the making I’m sure !!!

Graf Midgehunter

David Torrance is so shallow, condensation would drown him..!

Jack Murphy

OT—maybe not.
“One Party Dominance” in the Scottish Parliament,through the eyes of the BBC’s James Naughtie,Ruth Davidson,Kezia Dugdale,a bleating Wullie Rennie and lastly John Swinney.

Mr Naughtie is speaking from the very top of the Cairngorms—-I’m not kidding—-Ruth Davidson was up there,and Mr Naughtie not too far behind her! 🙂

Only 6 minutes if you can be bothered.

BBC Radio 4 Today Programme this morning. BBC iPlayer begining at 01:17:03:

link to bbc.co.uk

Legerwood

“”
Peter McCulloch says:
7 April, 2016 at 11:47 am
OT I see the media reporting that Kezia Dugdale is accusing the SNP of ‘dirty tricks’ after a leaked email about her job application she Had “absolutely zero recollection” of making to SNP MSP.

Is this really a story?””
…………………………

Yes, for Labour at least and maybe the LibDems, now that they have managed to spin it as SNP bad for, allegedly, leaking it. If you really wanted to be paranoid then you would imagine a scenario where Labour ‘leaked’ the info so that they could then turn it into an SNP bad story.

Watching how the story developed yesterday in the Herald on-line does give some support for that take on things. The first article was ‘Kezia amused’. Then Mr Rennie waded in, no doubt trying to show that the SNP were as bad as the LibDems. Then back to Ms Dugdale who had changed from ‘amused’ to ‘dirty tricks’

Clearly in between times someone had a word in her ear and pointed out what they thought was the potential of this non-story to embarrass the SNP.

As usual the on-line commentators made mince of the story. Noticed that the Gaurdian did not allow comments on their version of it. No doubt don’d want the sacred facts to get in the way of comment.

First appeared as

robert esquierdo

You only have to look at the mans choice of neck ties

ronnie anderson

@ Nana
@Scottie Dog

Do you,s remember Dominic Strathkhan,& the set up in America.Christene Laguarde had papers supposedly from Switzerland of Tax dodgers, she never reveiled those names after she was appointed to IMF.

Corruption comes from the Top down.

heedtracker

BBC Radio 4 Today Programme this morning. BBC iPlayer begining at 01:17:03:

I heard that UKOK henchman on top of a hill too. What is odd reading around BBC’s henchman online, is their complete and utter radio silence on tax fraudsters UKOK style and panama leaks.

This one in particular is very weirdly mute on such a massive UKOK issue, especially and considering his world famous determination to find out stuff.

link to twitter.com

David

Does David Torrance get travel expenses from BBC Scotland every time he catches the train from from his home in London to Pacific Quay for an appearance?

If so, what a waste of (our) money.

Dr Jim

I don’t know why Kezia’s moaning if she feels she’s in the right job then the SNP did her a favour

To represent the SNP one must demonstrate a commitment to the ideals of the party the SNP must have felt Kezia didn’t show that commitment so off she went to the Labour party who have no commitment to anything and she…

Fits right in

Nana

@Ronnie Anderson

I think this is it Ronnie

link to globalresearch.ca

ronnie anderson

@ Ledgerwood Noo who at SNP HQ would have the time to trawl through 20 yrs of old job applications , a non story, more likely leaked by Kezia herself,she has a knak for putting her foot in sh=%* & slipping.

Proud Cybernat

Regarding leaked information:

“This is the middle of an election campaign, these things happen.” – Alistair Carmichael

Now shut up, Willie.

Derick fae Yell

Sandy: 7 April, 2016 at 1:31 am

The Scotts of Gardie are substantial landowners in Shetland, owning the Island of Noss, parts of the Shetland Mainland, and much of the islands of Bressay and Unst. Tavish’s old dad John Scott was Lord Luteeinant

They’re likely no that delighted with land reform I guess.

No idea who looks after the beasts. Suppose you could stop along Gardie House and ask Tavish

link to panphotos.co.uk

Macart

You have wonder at the no voting mentality at this point. How can anyone, and I do mean anyone, fail to see just how anti democratic, self centred and corrupt the UK state system is? Its one massive scandal after another FFS!

Just what part of the UK government and financial services complicity in this appalling scandal are they mistaking for caring, sharing better togetherness? This is what this state machine does for a living. Its what they are and its all that they are.

The United Kingdom is basically a lie, a mirage and worse yet, an excuse. Even the peoples of the English regions are considered nothing better than a resource to be tapped.

Capital cities are expected to have a disproportionate degree of importance and pull in any country on the globe. Makes sense really. They’re traditionally the seat of government for a country after all and where the decisions get made, but what are you when you are not a single country? What are you when the turnover of your state construct is reliant on financial services centred in a single geographic location? What we have, I’d say, is essentially UKPLC, a state machine run like a megacorp which uses an unwritten constitution to control the resources and tax base of the nations and crown protectorates within its charter.

Like any huge corporate entity, it doesn’t exist to serve its workers, or even its management. No, it exists purely to provide profit and mainly then for the shareholders (see under those and such as those). The peoples of the UK don’t have a government, they have owners and sitting in that big hoose on the Thames, a board of back stabbing directors.

The theory is, that in a normal country, a government exists to serve the people. In a corporation, the people exist to serve the shareholders. To the shareholder, when profit is threatened for any reason, the people in its care become disposable dontchaknow and there is little or no redress for those affected by corporate decisions.

In a country, when times are hard for the economy, that’s when a government is supposed to protect the people and if they don’t, or prove incapable? That’s when the democracy part kicks in and the government becomes disposable.

The time for ‘give devolution one last chance’ is over. Those pricks took our country, our taxes, our resources, even our self respect, poured petrol on it all and struck a match for fun.

Are we done yet?

Jack Collatin

I seem to recall that when Alex McLeish was managing Oldco (I await the outrage that my use of the disparaging soubriquet for RFC invokes) and they were going through a ‘sticky patch’, that the Aberdeen support unfurled a banner when Rangers were visiting Pittodrie:

‘Come home , Alex. Mission Accomplished’.

Perhaps such a banner can be furnished by the SNP Communications Wing, now that Kezia has finally stomped the dying embers of Labour in Scotland into the dust:

‘Come Home, Kezia. Mission Accomplished.

Are there no Backroom Senior advisers left in Scottish labour.

Time for a BBC sponsored ‘Public Speaking’ course, Kezia.

Glamaig

Jack Murphy 12:02
Mr Naughtie is speaking from the very top of the Cairngorms—-I’m not kidding—-Ruth Davidson was up there,

WTF do they have to go on a wee jolly up Cairngorm to interview each other.

Did they claim the funicular ticket on expenses?

When can we be rid of these arseholes?

ScottieDog

@ronnie anderson
I had forgotten all about the DSK thing.
The IMF is up to its neck in all this stuff. An American neo-con establishment run by bankers which needs to be disbanded. The IMF since its inception has led a rapacious campaign against poorer countries, systematically stealing their assets and reigning mystery on populations.

Giving Goose

Derick fae Yell

I read your link to the story about Wir Shetland.

To expand a bit, it appears that a not so secret society has been set up with the aim of stopping Scottish Independence.

I wonder how many more little groups have been set up among local and not so local politicians and the like to prevent the democratic process and preserve the Gravy Train providing the honours that London Rule so generously hands out to it’s supporters (for that is surely what it is always about)?

Proud Cybernat

Received Ruth-the-Mooth’s Regional Survey through the letterbox yesterday.

Q5) Putting party politics aside and thinking about them as individuals, which of these leaders will best hold the SNP to account in the Scottish Parliament?

Ruth Davidson
Kezia Dugdale
Willie Rennie
Patrick Harvie

[As I’m being asked not to think about politics but to choose a political party leader, I’m not too sure who to tick – anyone able to help me?]

Q6) At the Scottish Parliament election in May you will have two votes. The party you vote for on the regional ballot paper will decide who is elected to hold the SNP to account. Does knowing this make you more or less likely to cast your regional vote for Ruth Davidson?

More likely to vote for Ruth Davidson
Less likely to vote for Ruth Davidson
No difference

What a slimy bunch the Blue Tories really are. Some people, especially the elderly, in reading that question on Ruth-the-Mooth’s wee survey will surely be given the impression that their second vote must be given to a different party than their first vote. Utterly reprehensible electionering and Davididson should, imo, be reported to the Electoral Commission for this ‘survey’. Disgusting!

heedtracker

Are we done yet?

Not til there’s nothing left. Nothing much makes sense in Scotland. David Murray made his fortune in steel but he was primarily a steel importer, Japanese steel mainly, cheap, high quality and all of it bought by oil co’s like BP.

link to en.wikipedia.org

Middle men can get rich beyond avarice, its how the City spivs make it big but during this exact same period on the road to riches, Snatcher Thatcher de-nationalised British Steel, 1988? and within a few years, Ravenscraig is demolished.

This in a region of teamGB with one of the biggest buyers of steel in world energy. actually the seas around it. We are adults, we stood a watched them do their worst to Scotland. Maybe we deserve everything we UKOK get, from now until we do actually vote Yes and maybe even because of the great pile of The Vow bullshit.

Derick fae Yell

Giving Goose

Comment yesterday by leading ‘Wir Shetland’ supporter Ian Tinkler on the Shetland times.

“iantinkler April 6th, 2016 22:30

Robin Stevenson. You know just how I feel about Nationalism and its supporters. It is clear “Wir Shetland” may lose a few members whom would rather have a nationalist MSP, than suport Tavish in a tactical blocking move.”

link to shetlandtimes.co.uk

Andrew Mclean

O/T
I have been reading the rights of man by Thomas Pain, and came across this statement ” The taxes raised in Scotland and Ireland are expended in those countries, and therefore their savings will come out of their own taxes; but if any part be paid into the English exchequer, it might be remitted”

Looking for the source of this statement I came across the following book. The history of the public revenue of the British Empire by , Sir John Sinclair, 1754-1835, from page 307 he discusses the view of the union with regard to the revenue of Scotland in 1785.

In this book he destroys shibboleths, now used by the advocates of the union. First the idea now common that Scotland was bankrupt at the time of union due to the failed Darien adventure, this adventure is not even mentioned with regard to the revenue of Scotland.

Surprisingly he did mention north Briton, but then says “correctly “south Britain when then referring to England, If that stupid Tory MP is to believed then the entire English nation was dissolved as well?

He states the comparative wealth between Scotland and England was to a great extent identical, however the National debt in England was considerably more. He mentions the proportion of payments each country to the common exchequer, and to the equivalent Scotland was to receive (in return) for subjecting itself to the burdens and debts of England.

Individual and corporate taxation was higher in England as was accustomed in Scotland, so to get both on an “equal footing” a new land tax was imposed in Scotland.

Although obviously written from a unionists perspective, the greatest sense is that the Nation of Scotland entered into a agreement with England and that that agreement had its limits.
” An independent country like Scotland was entitled to retain even after the union those offices which had been instituted,~ and cannot be objected to. ”

“As Scotland, though incorporated with England, was to be governed by its own laws, it was necessary to continue the ancient forms of proceedings, and the courts of judicature, to which the people were accustomed. On other terms an Union would not have been practicable. An alteration of ancient and established laws is what hardly any nation will submit to.”

“In favour of such an Establishment it may be justly contended, that there are certain rights which Scotland can never relinquish, with it retains the smallest vestige of its ancient independence ‘. The crowns and the parliaments of the two countries, it is true, are incorporated, and consequently in a “political sense” the English and Scots are one and the same people ; but in a religious, regal, or individual view, they are perfectly different, and Scotland is as well entitled as England, to different ((ecclehaftie)) establishments, independent courts of justice, and separate boards of revenue.”

But the best part of all is the love bombing “old school” at the end, Scotland should br pleased to join us the English are artists, philosophers and poets, and statesmen!

link to archive.org

ronnie anderson

@ Nana Thanks Nana we have always to look back, to see what unfolds in the future.

Almannysbunnet

@heedtracker says:
12:19 pm
This one in particular is very weirdly mute on such a massive UKOK issue, especially and considering his world famous determination to find out stuff.

My guess is that their are so many establishment bods involved in Panama that they will attempt to sweep it under the table. A bit like “the banks are too big to fail” it’s “everybody does it, it’s legal, it’s tax avoidance not tax evasion”. One is legal one is not. I’ve never understood the difference, the outcome is the same for both, tax is not paid.
Watched some “expert” being lobbed soft balls by the BBC yesterday, the whitewash has already started, “surely this is so big so massive so much documentation that we will never get to the bottom of it”. This is A Neil’s idea of “the BBC are doing a great job.” Nothing to see here and in other news…..

Cameron survived dipping his wick in a dead pigs head without barely a mention. He will keep his head down until this blows over. Nobody “at the top” will look into it because their own name might crop up.
Like FIFA the only way this will be exposed is for the FBI and a USA public prosecutor to become involved. For once I will be shouting USA USA because our own defenders of law and order ably abetted by the corp media will do sweet F.A.

Legerwood

“”ronnie anderson says:
7 April, 2016 at 12:31 pm
@ Ledgerwood Noo who at SNP HQ would have the time to trawl through 20 yrs of old job applications , a non story, more likely leaked by Kezia herself,she has a knak for putting her foot in sh=%* & slipping.””

Exactly. It has been going the rounds for ages. But suddenly Labour are making it a story – and in the ‘SNP-supporting Scottish SUN’ no less according to some reports.

heedtracker

Toryboy Mike Gove raging away there on BBC r4 against UK.gov blowing over £9 million taxpayers dosh on pro EU “safer and stronger in the EU” leaflets for everyone. You cant invent a bigger bunch of nutters than UKOK tories, red or blue.

G H Graham

David Torrance makes as much sense as “manufacturer withdraws ice skates due to slip hazard”.

heedtracker

My guess is that their are so many establishment bods involved in Panama that they will attempt to sweep it under the table. A bit like “the banks are too big to fail” it’s “everybody does it, it’s legal, it’s tax avoidance not tax evasion”.

He’s come a long from Paisley!

He’s just one of thousands of hard core Brit propagandists doing the bidding of our imperial masters.

Banks were too big to fail and they are STILL to big to fail, here in yew kay land and the US. Bernie Sanders wants to break the banks up so they really are not too big to fail. If Sanders can become President, he really could, so watch him get destroyed by henchman like Brillo and his merry band of BBC liggers, red and blue toryboys to a man.

Here, the City is too powerful and UK.gov’s both stuffed with toryboy’s and too weak. Obama got blocked by GOP Congress but if it changes soon, Sanders really is our only hope.

Big Jock

David Torrance Metro Sexual ,self invented intellectual. I have a beard and quirky dress sense. Hey guys I am both eccentric and witty. Contrived does not even come close to describing the vacum that is David Torrance’s personality.

Too many of these erseholes on the tv nowadays. Same for that other dude on Scotland 2016 who appears with the beard and open neck shirt exposing a jungle of chest hair ….and Cravats! Why are young men dressing themselves as 19th Century spivs…..

Breeks

Big Jock @ 10.22

I get that Big Jock, but bullying is all about people who don’t know how to stand up for themselves. “Just take your licks and keep your mouth shut or it will only get worse”.

I’m not suggesting the answer is a bare knuckle fight we can’t win, but I am suggesting that doing nothing is equally damaging. Once that bully knows you won’t fight back… We need to get clever; use some lateral thinking.

There are any number of ways to fight back. Mr Ponsonby Indyref 2 has taken a stand against the BBC. Professor Robertson has taken a stand against the BBC. Rev Stu has taken a stand. Mustn’t forget Derek Bateman. Michael Greenwell. Chris Cairns. What formal recognition have they recieved, even in minute dose? What practical use has been made of their well documented contributions to the issue? It seems to me these voices have just been left to their fates, and that just doesn’t sit well with me.

These people are brave and altruistic to take their stand, risk being ostracised by their peers, and each have put a significant part of their lives and reputation on the line; not for personal gain or recognition, but to create tools and instruments others can use and refer to, so the rest of us can be that bit better informed and empowered when we make our stand.

We can put a stop to bullying, and it can start with a little help from our friends…. but it seems the SNP is too proud to ask.

Proud Cybernat

Q6) At the Scottish Parliament election in May you will have two votes. The party you vote for on the regional ballot paper will decide who is elected to hold the SNP to account. Does knowing this make you more or less likely to cast your regional vote for Ruth Davidson?

More likely to vote for Ruth Davidson
Less likely to vote for Ruth Davidson
No difference

(BTW – this survey is in Nicola’s seat).

More accurately, the ‘question’ above will give the impression in people’s heads that their Regional vote can’t be given to the SNP because it is to be used “…to hold the SNP to account”. It is inferred here that the SNP will win the constituency vote thus the impression is given that you can hardly vote SNP with your Regional vote as the SNP can hardly be called upon to hold themselves to account, thereby you can’t give your second vote to the SNP.

Devious gits. Trying everything they can to prevent the SNP from gaining an overall majority in order, of course, to thwart any hope of InyRef#2.

Nae chance!

SNP x 2 It is the only way to be absolutely certain the SNP will achieve an overall majority.

Peter McCulloch

@Legerwood
7 April, 2016 at 12:05 pm

I would agree with the point you make that for Labour it would be a story for to spin as SNP bad for, allegedly, leaking it.

It would be some thing Labour would like people to believe that the SNP are no different from any other political party and will plumb any depths to smear Labour.

Though I doubt many members of the public would take much interest in Kezia Dugdale having applied 13 years ago for a job with an SNP MSP.

heedtracker

watched BBC Newsnight explain how “our privacy is under threat” because of the Panama Papers.

link to bbc.co.uk

20 minutes in.

Newsnight editor, ex The Graun editor, Nic Robinson BBC politics editor, Laura Keunsberg editor.

BBC sez Panama whistle blower bad, say all of the above.

heedtracker

Ferocious Sturgeon bad from world famous YESer McWhirter today

link to archive.is

“Could an independent Scotland have become a tax haven? It’s certainly possible. Ireland has: it regularly features in Forbes magazine’s “top 10 tax havens”.

The Scottish Government might well have argued that the best way to get one over on England was to undercut it on tax: cut air fares, slash corporation taxes, keep income taxes low and watch the money roll in.”

That “get one over on England” is very McWhirter. I think this dude alone has lied even harder than the great UKOK liars of the Graun.

HandandShrimp

Wonder of those photo’s in recent days wher Ruthie was caught, clapping a dog who had an SNP collar on, or the wee boy who had a skateboard with SNP stickers all over the bottom, which looked like she was caught out.

Those were genuine events, both happened on Largs Main Street with the SNP stall just a few yards down from the Tory one. The lads with skateboards came and got the stickers from the SNP stall and did it as a spontaneous, good natured prank. The dog (which was huge) was photographed with Ruth first and then came down to our stall and the owner let Ken put a big SNP roundel on the collar for his photo with the dog.

What Ruth wants is not association with the SNP but to be seen as the only credible opposition to the SNP. The fact that once again there was no Labour or Liberal presence on the day didn’t do her pitch any harm. It suits Ruth that it is a two way fight.

orri

The uneasy feeling he’s having is probably embarrassment which may be unfamiliar to him. He’s a bit like a dog getting skelped for riding a leg.

Big Jock

Breeks – I think it would be a start if the SNP refused to field candidates for programems like Newsnight,when they are out numbered 4/1. Or as in Dundee 70% of the audience had English accents. Lets see the Yoons trying to pick on an empty chair!

Don’t forget much as I hate Farage and his policies. When he stood up to the BBC on the leaders debate ,he was bullied even more, and then ridiculed for even suggesting there was bias.

In other words he was treated like a paranoid anti democrat. Same would happen if the SNP did this during a debate. Protest doesn’t always need to be verbal. Vote with your feet!

macbeda

O/T probably

This panama papers thing is not going to show any real UK problems. A couple of tiddlers will be crucified for the sake of face then nothing. Everything will then be swept under the carpet as usual.

The Panorama program was a feckin joke. BBC has fallen a long way and is going into free fall into the abyss.

We need to get all the panama papers out into the public domain and away from the likes of the BBC and the MSM moguls.

Lets get people anywhere/everywhere investigating.

Giving Goose

Derick fae Yell

Thanks for that!
Very illuminating.

Peter McCulloch

I thought I would share this opinion piece that appeared in our local newspapers, East Fife,Fife free Press and Glenrothes Gazette.

Do sums add up in wealth of nations?
– Fife Today
Wednesday 06 April 2016
Maggie Millar
maggie’millar@jpress.co.uk

galamcennalath

Proud Cybernat says:

” At the Scottish Parliament election in May you will have two votes. The party you vote for on the regional ballot paper will decide who is elected to hold the SNP to account.”

Wow. That is a gross misrepresentation of what the regional vote is!

It’s not about who you want as opposition, it SHOULD be about choosing the government.

Does that question contravene some election law? It should.

Paul

RE: Ruthie’s survey leaflets

Unfortunately, as long established, political parties can lie with impunity on electoral material.
Political leaflets/billboards/etc. are all exempt from laws which apply to all other types of advertising…

Chic McGregor

@Big Jock

“programems”

Don’t know if that was a typo a Freudian or a pun I would be proud of, but it gave me a chuckle. 🙂

ScottishPsyche

As each day passes it seems we live in as weird parallel universe where the BBC and MSM increasingly manipulate and distort the reality to fabricate a world that gives them stories to write about.

Wtf? Ruth and James Naughtie in the Cairngorms? They are really going all out to get her that 2nd place aren’t they?

There is no substance whatsoever to that woman.

I am as concerned as are others about the distortion of the role of the 2nd vote. How can they get away with saying it is for the opposition?

Vote for whoever you, want but me? Both votes SNP.

call me dave

Work has started on building platforms to exploit the biggest discovery of oil and gas in the North Sea for more than a decade.

link to archive.is

I expect a quote from Lamont or Baillie or Deputy Deadwood even expressing outrage that the steel is not Scottish…any moment now… Aye right, exits stage left!

Dr Jim

You have to hand it to UKIP for a laugh, this morning David Coburn says Holyrood isn’t democratic and alternative voices aren’t allowed
UKIP opposed the Scottish parliament, they opposed the devolution of powers to Holyrood, they opposed more powers coming to Holyrood, they wanted to abolish the Barnet formula
and on and on and on

This afternoon Nigel Farage announces everything at Holyrood’s great and he wants more powers and better stuff and more of everything

Then Mr Farage says all that other stuff that was said this morning was really said “back in the 90s”

UKIP should join the Labour Party they both know that they are allowed to say anything and it gets on the news but never gets ridiculed

Nicola Sturgeon didn’t have her best shoes on today “Disgrace” doesn’t she care how she presents herself to voters “One party domination” “A display of Arrogance”

This phrase of “We have to hold the government to account”
why doesn’t that apply to all the lying Bastirts who are not the government who the media actually want to BE the government

Given the media’s lifeblood is Conflict, Bad news, Propaganda and the distortion of facts to sell a product, and what they print is bad for our mental and physical health, shouldn’t all media come with a government health warning on their content, they could start with no newspapers being allowed in hospital grounds

Blair Paterson

Big Jock I agree the S.N.P. Should refuse to take part in the bbc programes untill they are assured of,fair play and good manners terms i think the bbc would find hard to deliver decent common courtesy which their interviewers do not seem to have

heedtracker

I expect a quote from Lamont or Baillie or Deputy Deadwood even expressing outrage that the steel is not Scottish…any moment now… Aye right, exits stage left!

There is NO Scottish steel in the North Sea or Atlantic oil patch. Norwegian sector is exact opposite and while they are taking a hit at the present, there’s a giant Norwegian steel, shipping and rig building industry.

If you want the blue toryboy version of why there is no Scottish steel offshore Scotland, they explain clearly that it was too expensive, just like now.It’s all tory lies.

Most North Sea oil installations were built in far east slave wage ship yards and floated back. The few that were built in the yew kay bought Murray steel, imported from Japan and Murray steel also sold Japanese steel for almost all down hole piping, almost all of it.

Its probably the only reason David Murray’s a right time right place billionaire. One of the ways Murray would treat his steel clients was a day out in Ibrox directors box.

Was it cheaper to exploit slave wage South Korea or invest in Scotland? Norway never once went to the Far East. They still dont and they have the highest wages in the world, with fair taxation to boot.

Either way, red and blue tory yoon destruction of Scotland’s steel and shipping industry was merely collator damage, in the then class war raging in England at this time.

The tory party won.

carjamtic

Correction Factors

The Oil and Gas Industry will bounce back,in the meantime,if you have a ‘staff job’,you are one of the lucky ones,the ‘corrections’ have been made,now sit tight till OPEC stop the infighting.

Unionist Politicians will not bounce back,they are actively seeking ‘staff jobs’ on the list for the next Scottish Parliament,the voters will decide how far the ‘corrections’ will go,in the longer term there is no future for them.

BBC/MSM will not bounce back,new media continues at a pace,exposed as lazy,biased spreaders of state propaganda there is no long term,future for them,they longer have influence/power.

The BBC/MSM/Unionist Politicians all know this,but have decided in their anger to continue with the same behaviour/process that got them into trouble in the first place,that’s what happen when ‘staffers’ get the boot,lots of screaming.

Until Independance the fight goes on, remember NS words.

‘My conviction that Scotland should be Independant stems from the principles,not of nationality,but of democracy and social justice’

Proud Cybernat

Complaint re Ruth’s dodgy ‘survey’ sent to local govt electoral office who will advise if this ‘survey’ is breaking electoral rules. In which case it will be reported to Police Scotland.

Keep them on the back foot.

SNP x 2

Andrew Mclean

Willie Reneie, is it just me that he took absolute delight in farmers not being paid their cap payments on time?
Also I have heard Kezia and Ruth both mention their respective MP,s but Willie not a word about Carmichael, you would think he’s not a liberal MP, did he do something wrong Willie, that you completely disavowed his existence.? And if you can’t stand by your man, why’d anyone think you could fight for Scotland?

Molly

Scottishosyche

I read an ,Irish author describe ( not sure if it was the state or the state of Irish msm) as a Truman show/ Hunger Games parody where they ratch it up each day til the people snap !

This does sound awfully familiar

By the way S Murphys poem ‘ was it for this ? ‘ should be heard far and wide

Big Jock

Chick can’t take credit it was a slip of the keyburb Kays….all fangers and tums today!

Breeks

Yes Big Jock, but consider how much political capital the Unionists can make from contrived GERS or OBR statistics based upon curious rumours and presumptions by un-named people with extremely dodgy credentials, then compare and contrast that with the political capital the SNP has been able to make from Professor Robertson’s fully documented scrupulous academic research into BBC bias.

Not withstanding the actual research content and the questions it raises in themselves, it made me very angry indeed to see Professor Robertson hauled in front of the BBC rogues, where he seemed a rather lonely and isolated figure. Where was ANY reciprocal attempt made by the SNP to haul the BBC before a committee to address and explain Professor Robertson’s research? The BBC just snubs Holyrood committees and goes about its business with its nose in the air.

To lob in another football analogy, Professor Robertson has set up the SNP with an in perfect cross into the box, they are well on side with the goalie off his line, but yet they still don’t go for the shot.

If not then, then when?

Valerie

@Proud Cybernat, well done. Wonder what they will say, if anything……

Just noticed Irvine Welsh is on QT tonight, although my blood pressure will be tested as that witch Tory harpy Soubry is on as well. May have to remove any sizeable objects from my immediate grasp.

On the Kez leak thing. I think someone in Labour has leaked it. Strange someone sat on it until now, when Senior Labour types in London are briefing against her, referring to her clusterfck.

Her tea’s oot.

Big Jock

Aye Breeks – I know you are right on this. Seems the SNP are still trying to court the floating voters and not frighten the horses. On the other hand does the BBC not damage itself on a daily basis, when even Yoons like Ruth the Truth notice this. Are the SNP allowing the BBC to make an arse of themselves…..

Big Jock

Aye Valerie and the BBC were quick to assume it was the SNP what did it. So they could turn the bad story about Kez into an SNP bad story. The BBC are tying themselves in knots now.

heedtracker

Usual very brutal anti Scotland Herald stuff, Scots and Panama tax dodgers, all rolled into one, the cringing yoontastic gits

link to archive.is

Scotland region v v v bad now.

winifred mccartney

Thanks Ruby for all the links you do for us. I have just watched the LGBTI hustings and I’m afraid I think it has been heavily edited (nothing of woman from audience about questioning of NS, nothing from RD response and nothing from LW in response. I don’t know who edited it but I can guess. A recording from radio scotland was also edited (taking out a part where KD muddled and fluffed explanation about tax) before going on iplayer so I would certainly say you can only trust a very few people.

Chic McGregor

@heedtracker

No mention of Scotland here:

link to shelteroffshore.com

Although the Isle of Man, Ireland and the UK as a whole get a mention.

Proud Cybernat

Reply (below) from Glasgow Council election office re Ruth-the-Mooth’s dodgy election ‘survey’:

Dear —

Thank you for your email. The Electoral Registration Officer does not have responsibility for the activities of political parties during elections. I have checked with the website of the Electoral Commission link to electoralcommission.org.uk? and have copied their advice regarding making a complaint.

‘In general, political campaign material in the UK is not regulated, and it is a matter for voters to decide on the basis of such material whether they consider it accurate or not. This includes the design of the material. There is one exception to this, which is making or publishing a false statement of fact in relation to a candidate’s personal character or conduct (not their political views or conduct), unless there are reasonable grounds to believe the statement is true. The Commission does not regulate this rule however, and any allegations should be made to the police.

The Advertising Standards Authority regulates advertising, but non-broadcast political material whose principal function is to influence voters is exempt from its remit.

If you feel that the content of the material may constitute a criminal offence, you should contact the police. Every police force has a dedicated Single Point of Contact officer (SPOC), who may be contacted about such allegations.’

Electoral Registration Office

Glasgow City Council

This is a blatant lie Ruth Davidson has propagated in this ‘survey’ with the intent to confuse and deceive elderly and vulnerable voters. And, it seems, there’s bugger all anyone can do about it to call HER to account for these election lies.

What kind of democracy IS THIS FFS?

CameronB Brodie

I believe Mr Torrance now lives in Hackney

So it was purely a stroke of good fortune that I met Mr. Torrence at the pre-indyref rally on Carlton Hill and was able to give him my personal assessment of him, face to face.

For those with long memories, I seems I was correct, then and now. Poor Mr. Torrance appears to be a bit of a intransigent fallacy. (smirk)

ian

Hi Mcart you have made some good points and i can understand your frustration.I think if we are hanging about for the day we hit 60% in favour of independence many of us will be long dead.Unfortunately 30% of our population are rampant unionists and most of the other 20% dont much care.We are working with small margins and probably much like Ireland it will take being independent for a good majority of our population see independence as a good thing.

galamcennalath

ScottishPsyche says:

“As each day passes it seems we live in as weird parallel universe where the BBC and MSM increasingly manipulate and distort the reality to fabricate a world that gives them stories to write about.”

There are people out there who believe it.

When I carry out my SNP duties, I get approached. The profile is always the same – older person, probably Tory and with an angry manner. A scowl which looks permanent.

They will ask some wild question which is based on a parallel version of the world which they been indoctrinated with. There is never an easy answer, because the question has no basis in my reality. The encounter will leave them vindicated and me feeling frustrated!

They believe the colonial media where truth is deceit. They have their own set of opinions for which there are no supporting facts, only other opinions. Where do you start with people whose mindset is so far removed?

galamcennalth

Orwell got the date wrong. Not 1984 but 2014. Out by 30years.

Macart

@ian

On moving that percentage along a bit.

The trick ian, isn’t just presenting people with a bewildering array of facts. Most folk can’t take in yards of facts on any given subject or policy, which makes it nigh on impossible to counteract decades of political and media spin. Its about peeling away the layers of spin and misdirection to present people with the reality of a thing. In essence the object is to show them cause and effect and that everyone can grasp.

ronnie anderson

@ galamcennalth

Both Lab/ Tory/ Libdem/ have people who do this, its engading your time & they know how to play it. Talking to them your not talking to others Job done.

Mind how you go People.

Nana

O/T

Wonder what charmer will take his place.

link to droppings.theferret.scot

Ruby

winifred mccartney says:
7 April, 2016 at 4:07 pm

Thanks Ruby for all the links you do for us. I have just watched the LGBTI hustings and I’m afraid I think it has been heavily edited (nothing of woman from audience about questioning of NS, nothing from RD response and nothing from LW in response. I don’t know who edited it but I can guess. A recording from radio scotland was also edited (taking out a part where KD muddled and fluffed explanation about tax) before going on iplayer so I would certainly say you can only trust a very few people.

Ruby replies

link to tinyurl.com

I didn’t watch the video all the way through but it did try to scan through to find the relevant bits and as you say they did appear to be edited out.

Whoever edited was too late as Wings already had a recording!

It doesn’t say much for Stonewall! I wonder if it would be worth leaving a comment on their You Tube video!

You really need to record these event as they are happening to be sure you are getting the truth and not a edited version.

Proud Cybernat

“In essence the object is to show them cause and effect and that everyone can grasp.”

Like: “Well, Tam. See when you voted No in the referendum, the effect of your No vote resulted in you getting a Tory govt you didn’t vote for, enacting policies you utterly despise.”

Nana

How many folk know about this. Taxpayer keeping the likes of Brown and Blair in comfort for the rest of their lives.
On top of their glorious golden pensions and security guards. Geez sometimes there are no words

link to twitter.com

yesindyref2

@Macart: “The time for ‘give devolution one last chance’ is over.

Patience mon Brave. For us it was over a long time ago, even when we voted YES to it in the first place – twice. But there are still those who have to be convinced, the devo-maxers, a third of the electorate.

The road map to Independence that some of the more sensible columnists are on about has been clear since the VOW, and we’re well down the road already. We have a map, and are always looking for short cuts or a clear Expressway across town, meanwhile we’re heading in the right direction and with a full tank of fuel, nibbles, water, sleeping blanket, emergency shovel, knitting and crochet, popcorn, the lot.

1. The VOW to keep the Devo-maxers optimistic. Tick.
2. Smith to keep the Devo-maxers optimistic. Tick.
3. Watered down Smith in the Scotland Act. Tierrrtick.
4. It becomes clear that Income Tax is a blunt instrument, but the Scottish Government does its best. Tick.
5. But there are more cuts to come and cuts need to be made. The SG push for more pwoers to be devolved, and 54-56 MPs use opposition day motions to try to get them devolved. Tick.

6. Westminster says NO, the game’s a bogey, bog off and use what you’ve got already. Tick. Tock.

7. Referendum, Scotland votes 80% YES, 20% NO to Independence. Tick.

Proud Cybernat

You voted No. Oh look – a Tory government.

You voted No. Oh look – there goes the North Sea investment.

You voted No. Oh look – there goes the carbon capture investment.

You voted No. Oh look – there goes renewable energy investment.

You voted No. Oh look – there goes HS2 investment in Scotland (but we still get to pay for it in England).

You voted No. Oh look – your son/daugter/grandweans won’t get a pension.

You voted No. Oh look – your job’s gone to Croydon.

You voted No. Oh look – you might be out of Europe.

Cause and effect. You voted No. Thing is – all of the above is what they told you would happen if you voted YES. It happened anyway when you voted NO.

Ruby

Re Periscope videos.

It would seem that you can download unedited versions of Periscope videos but only for a 24 hour period.

Stonewall have probably downloaded the Periscope video and then edited it for some reason???

The interesting question is why have they edited it and who will benefit from the editing?

Downloading Periscope videos might be something worth considering should there be any further Periscope broadcasts.

link to tinyurl.com

link to twitter.com

Andrew Mclean

It’s not grievance
Make no mistake, we wish to start and actively participate in sedition and rebellion, to wrestle our country free from the dictate of Westminster. It is Treason they accuse us of, treason pure and simple, against this blighted union, kept together on lies and blackmail and extortion.

The union is hanging by a thread, gossamer thin, that’s why the state broadcaster supports London rule.

Just be thankful its today, until very recently the state apparatus would deal with us very differently.

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.

(seditious intention is an intention to bring into hatred or contempt, or to excite disaffection against the person of His Majesty, his heirs or successors, or the government and constitution of the United Kingdom.)

It’s fair to say that describes wings contempt for Westminster quite well!

1745 Charles Edward Stuart, raises his standard at Glenfinnan, at the start of the ’45 uprising.

1746 Lord George Murray and Cluny Macpherson (chief of the clan) fell upon the Campbell militia posts in the Braes of Atholl, at the head of Strathtay, and wiped them out. A brilliant feat of arms, it aroused a blaze of Jacobite optimism

1747 Lord Lovat beheaded on Tower Hill for high treason. He was the last person in Britain to be beheaded

1747 Proscription Act introduced, banning tartan and the carrying of weapons.

1773 The “Hector” from Loch Broom, near Ullapool, arrives at Pictou, Nova Scotia, carrying emigrants escaping from the “Clearances”

1787 Glasgow weavers riot after their wages are cut. Bricks were thrown at magistrates and soldiers who then opened fire on the rioters, resulting in six being killed

1792 John Paul Jones, naval hero of the American Revolution, died; he was born in Kircudbrightshire in 1747

1793 Thomas Muir was charged with sedition and sentenced to fourteen years exile in Botany Bay, more than 30 others were also charged at this time,

1797 “Battle of Tranent” in which a demonstration against conscription under the Militia Act was broken up by the Cinque Ports Dragoons and East Lothian Yeomanry with the death of 12 participants

1819 The Strathnaver Clearances began on the Sutherland estates – families were given 30 minutes to remove their belongings before their cottages were set on fire.

1882 Battle of the Braes in which crofters in Skye fought 50 policemen during a dispute over land rights

1892 Lanarkshire-born James Keir Hardie became the first socialist to win a seat in the UK Parliament, before the precursor of the labour party existed.

1921 Maclean and Ross were convicted of a contravention of No. 19 of the Emergency Regulations, 1921, namely, causing sedition or disaffection.

1972 three people were arrested for sedition against the crown, the charge was dropped and they were found guilty of offences against the public order.

Sedition is no longer a prescribed unlawful act in Scotland from 2011, unless you don’t have a UK passport then it’s still in effect.

“Rebellious Scots to crush”, In Your Dreams

call me dave

Just read Mr Bateman’s new one worth a keek!

derekbateman.scot

yesindyref2

@Macart
The music for this has been running through my head since Smith was announced.

link to youtube.com

That’s Cameron on the bomb, and the target is the UK, Osborne doing the wire splicing.

yesindyref2

Sorry, wrong one:

link to youtube.com

gerry parker

Got an e mail from 38Degrees asking for funding to fight the MSM lies and scare stories, I replied:-

Now you know what we had to put up with in the Scottish referendum.

Then when their lies about pensions, currency and borders didn’t work, they came up with the Vow, which they then proceeded to welch on after they got their result.

link to wingsoverscotland.com

(I won’t mention the postal vote turnout at 80%)

200 amendments to the Scotland bill were voted down despite a very large majority of Scottish MP’s backing them – only 3 Scottish MP’s opposed, a Tory a Labour and a Lib Dem liar.

Democracy UK style staring you in the face.

gerry parker

schrodingerscat

twitter.com/naebD/status/718111425810538497

is this real?

Robert J. Sutherland

Yes, yesindyref2 @ 17:25, you are right on the button: “… there are still those who have to be convinced, the devo-maxers, a third of the electorate.

Elaine C. Smith very rightly said that it isn’t about “hearts vs minds”, because (as I imagine most posters here long since worked out) a thoroughly rational analysis reveals that devo was never going to be anything like max,. Everything that’s happened since, including the absurd yoony fact-skewing from the likes of Torrance, has only reinforced that critical understanding.

My guess is that Ruth Davidson’s intervention re Louise White came from an astute realisation that the increasingly-visible anti-SNP rage among the commentariat has become counter-productive.

All this yoon propaganda is deliberately targeted at the devo-maxers with the intention of holding the line for the Unionists in the election, to prevent the wipeout that they so clearly fear.

The critical question then is, how to dislodge those that are still desperately clinging to the illusion of “better together” but are not yoony irredentists?

This psychological dependency is a curious phenomenon, something like the Stockholm Syndrome.

Hence the importance of such as The Little Black Book, to somehow get through to these people so they become willing to recognise and accept what’s obvious.

Valerie

@Gerry parker

The junior doctors down south are raging at BBC coverage.

Wonder how many of them voted Tory? The sad thing is, it’s the ordinary and vulnerable that will suffer again.

No secret that lots of them are applying to emigrate.

louis.b.argyll

Good comments, to follow after…

If NO voters would just take a wee look about..

No, not at your balance sheet…chin up.

Look out where your your fellow Scots are, the workplace, street, family homes, student flats – and consider security and resilience.

Now look A WEE BIT into the future and tell me ‘it’s OK’
Our big UK brother will look after it all and he’ll tell us what to worry about.

WE need to work together, independent in thought, in law, in reality.

To place your nations hopes
in the hands of another..

Andrew McLean

State broadcaster steel cutting celebration in Singapore complete with dragons
All made possible by tax breaks
To drilling for massive gas fields in northern sea

No I didn’t feel better together

North Chiel

Any truth in the rumour that Willie Rennie was this afternoon
” snatched” by a condor, and that Paddy& Ming were ” negotiating”
his release? Has Cameron called a meeting of “cobra”?

galamcennalath

@Robert J. Sutherland, yesindyref2

I am certain the key to success is to ensure those who still hold out hope of serious devolution realise it will never be given.

Sheesh, WM and the Unionist parties ensured weak Smith was the outcome of IndyRef1. THEN even that was watered down.

We are only just getting the powers from Calman. SmithLite to follow in a few more years.

At every stage over the last few decades WM has handed down the absolute minimum it thinks will keep us quiet for another 5-10 years. How far down the Devo road to DevoMax have we got? … Not half way.

The message has to be got across to DevoMaxers that they are living a pipe dream. it will never ever happen. In all probability, we may get very little further Devo.

They have to appreciate that it is DevoNotMuch versus Indy. A simple binary choice.

We will never convert many hard core BritNats. They will stay bitter till the die off.

We can convert DevoMaxers. Enough of them, then Indy will happen.

yesindyref2

@Robert J. Sutherland
That’s the battle, but I think it is with hearts and minds. We have to engage with them, understand the caution, accept their concerns, and help them see that perhaps we already have what the Unionist parties describe as “Home Rule” in their eyes and Westminster’s, and aren’t never ever ever ever, getting any more. Like ever.

And is income tax and half of VAT enough levers to drive our economy, without the balance of all the other taxes and powers?

Well, is it?

yesindyref2

@Robert J. Sutherland and @galamcennalath
The other thing to remember is that one-third of the electorate wanted the status quo, and that was stable whereas income tax + half of VAT is in quite a few economists opinion, unstable (though they don’t put it in those words). Hence the fiscal framework.

But the Unionist parties in their panic denied that one-third what they wanted, they didn’t give them the status quo, they gave them an unstable and inadequate settlement.

That’s also fertile ground.

We ain’t seen nothing yet.

call me dave

The PM lied on news… shock (which lie was that?).

Dad’s account was a joint account…we all knew that he’s a tory!

yesindyref2

@call me dave
To be honest I hope Cameron gets through it OK, he’s not totally unreasonable. The alternative of Osborne from the point of view of Scotland doesn’t bear thinking of, and Boris, who knows what he might do?

Macart

@Yesindyref2

Couldn’t agree more.

As I alluded to in my 4.58pm post, I reckon the best way now is to put aside recriminations, arguing ‘facts’, or railing at why folk voted no. I think now its time to patiently and persistently point to cause and effect, the reality beyond the pledges and the campaign rhetoric. We need friends and we need to bring them along with us willingly. There’s 20% of that no vote from 2014 who are there to be convinced. That’s convinced, persuaded, NOT CONSTANTLY SHOUTED AT AND BERATED. 🙂

As an example we now have, as you pointed out, Westminster’s devolution settlement in the process of delivery. I don’t think we should allow the spads and their meeja the chance to dress it as anything other than what it actually is. As far as Westminster is concerned that’s their best devolution offer, business concluded.

Time to put that ‘delivery’ to the test.

Our turn.

Great flic by the by and the countdown analogy … 🙂

yesindyref2

@Macart
I remember when I watched the film, and the music kind of hesitiates, then goes and just keeps going. It was obvious then the bomb was going to get dropped.

Back in the 70s they tried out subliminal advertising and it was banned. But music is both subliminal and subversive.

K1

As call me dave linked…this piece by Derek Bateman is a stoater, wee taster:

‘I don’t just enjoy other voices and views, I used to make a living arguing to get them on air and debating with them. But the skewed nature of Scotland’s media today is a disservice to our democracy. I don’t want the SNP ‘making programmes’ or running a national broadcaster. I want the BBC to do what it was set up to do – to represent ALL of Scotland and reflect our country back to the Scots. If the papers don’t hire people able to do that, then it isn’t good enough for the BBC which takes our money only to reflect the one-sided view of the press. It should be searching for people who can at least articulate why, despite doubts about aspects of policy, they think so many of our people do continue to back the SNP.’

link to derekbateman.scot

CameronB Brodie

Re. the UKOK corporate media’s selective comment on the Panama affair. Could it be due to businesses located in the Corporation of the City of London, appearing to be central to the conspiracy? Sorry, I’ve not read all other posts regarding this yet, so may repeat info already provided.

Tony Blair went about it another way and offered to reform the City of London in what turned out to be a gift from god. He effectively gave the vote to corporations which swayed the balance of democratic power away from residents and workers. It was received by its opponents as the greatest retrograde step since the peace treaty of 1215, Magna Carta. The City won its rights through debt financing in 1067, when William the Conqueror acceded to it and ever since, governments have allowed the continuation of its ancient rights above all others.

The City effectively now stands as money launderer of the world, the capital of global crime. It is the heart and engine of the offshore haven, with Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man its european collection centres, the caribbean and others hoovering up billions of American dollars from all over the globe. Whilst there are good and legal reasons for offshore accounts, It has a dark and shadowy client list; terrorists, drug barons, arms dealers, politicians, corporations and companies, millionaires, billionaires – most with something to hide

link to globalresearch.ca

As we have reported on a number of occasions, Her Majesty’s British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies make up around 25 per cent of the world’s tax havens, which are now blacklisted by the European Commission and now ranked as the most important player of financial secrecy in the world. The revelations contained in the Panama Papers is a drop in a much larger cess pool of crime and the likes of Britain’s Prime Minister and his right hand man at the Exchequer swim in it.

Tax havens featured on the EC’s blacklist of June last year include the British territories of; Anguilla, Bermuda, the British Virgin Islands, the Cayman Islands, Montserrat and the Turks and Caicos Islands to name just a few and each is inextricably linked to the City of London, where, according to Donald Toon, the boss of the National Crime Agency, “hundreds of £billions are being laundered every year” facilitated by UK banks and the legal professions.

link to globalresearch.ca

P.S. IMHO, it is unreasonable to expect HSBC to act as the replacement to the disgraced BCCI (closed due to corruption and involvement in the finance of terrorists), without taking a hit on the bottom line. If I was an HSBC shareholder, I’d want some answers. Not as to their enabling of terrorism being right of or wrong but whether it is pofitable. After all, “free trade is about justice, not utility”. 😉

galamcennalath

yesindyref2 says:

“Unionist parties … didn’t give them the status quo, they gave them an unstable and inadequate settlement.”

Good point. In the old ‘No will win easily’ days, like early 2013, I remember BT saying … “More powers? We won’t discuss that until AFTER our No win”. It was to be a clear status quo versus Indy. After all, they didn’t want a DevoMax second question.

Oh how things had changed by Sept 2014. Clarity had changed to thick opaque excrement about what No actually meant.

So, yes, there are a lot of people bitter that their cosy status quo has gone forever. I suspect they blame nasty separatist for disturbing their peace and quiet You may be right though, some may be open to persuasion that WM doesn’t, after all, have their interests at heart.

yesindyref2

@galamcennalath
I remember in summer 2012 Darling, I think it was, promising more powers and getting excited. I used to post in the Grun, and had to sit on my hands not posting my thoughts in case BT realised their mistake, as I saw it.

In one fell stroke they’d betrayed the status quo supporters while not giving devo-maxers enough. If the status quo-ers thought it through, some of them would surely vote YES as the least of two “evils” from their point of view.

In the end it didn’t work out as I thought it would. Well, not yet.

yesindyref2

I’d forgotten the point of my point about “status quo”.

The point is that very early in 2012 the likes of Curtice had talked about the default effect, the tendency to vote for “no change”. And if in doubt, people would vote for no change by default, that’s safe and known. So the Indy ref would have been about Change, versus No Change.

The thing is once new powers were promised Iref1 became about full change versus some change. So that default was overtaken and changed in itself. There no longer was a “NO Change” default, which meant 100% of the electorate in Scotland was exposed to the idea of “Change, but how much?”.

That’s a very positive legacy for IndyRef2, and can be built on via the new powers, limited as they are, by introducing small but very visible changes between Scotland and the rUK. Changes will happen, the no change default has gone for ever.

From that point of view, Sturgeon and Swinney are totally correct with only changing the higher rate tax threshold in line with inflation. I was disappointed at first as I fell into the Devo trap and wanted a “progressive” large cut, perhaps from £43,500 to £40,000 or even £35,000.

But the important thing is change and divergence, not the amount of it.

yesindyref2

That idea of Change by the way, means that with their idea of 1p on the rate of tax, Labour and the LibDems are now actively campaigning towards Independence, even if they don’t realise it. Leaving only the Conservatives against.

I’ll shut up now.

galamcennalath

Derek Bateman’s latest is the best I’ve seen him write.

He articulates my thoughts in a way I certainly never could. I’m sure a great many others would say the same.

A must read!

Robert J. Sutherland

“There’s nothing succeeds like success”, which is why I think the SNP are being ultra-cautious in the leadup to ScotGE. An upsurge in votes and renewal of a majority in parliament, coupled with a drop in support for Labour, may help prise away more for indy. Polls seem to predict (if they can be trusted!) a significant fall in Labour turnout, so some voters may not yet have switched allegiance, but may be weakening….

Gerry

Cameron – untenable if this fund was not declared. It’ll haunt him from every side if he doesn’t go. The tory euro sceptics will go for his throat now.

NeoconNat

It’s funny seeing Bateman and so many others like Macwhirter talking about a more balanced BBC in isolation of the real problem. There’s a reason for the BBC being biased, although it seems almost forgotten here, there, and everywhere, and it’s the reason they’ll never allow it; an unbiased and impartial BBC would result in a lot more people supporting the SNP and independence.

It should never be overlooked that we would be independent right now if the BBC even resembled impartiality in the weeks leading up to the referendum.

ronnie anderson

Remember The Remembracer in the Mother of all Parliaments. Westminster wont be allowing City of London to lose money,it wont be a Panama Hat it will put a Tin Hat on it.

Cameron wearing ah Porky Pie Hat,takes him 5days to remember £30grands worth of shares,what were 5000 Blairmore shares worth in 2010,we job fur the WOS ferrets.

heedtracker

It should never be overlooked that we would be independent right now if the BBC even resembled impartiality in the weeks leading up to the referendum.

It’s The Vow wot won it, BBC, all the newspapers, STV, Project Fear but mainly the devo-max, federal UK The Vow.

Robert J. Sutherland

Well, NeoconNat you clearly are obsessed with BBC bias to the point of paranoia, but it’s not evidently a conspiracy from on high, more likely an unspoken and uncoordinated coalition of individual attitudes: institutional bias, in other words. We should pay attention to what one-time insiders like Bateman and MacWhirter have to say, because they were there. Each may hold only a partial insight of the whole, but they are the strongest witnesses we have. To ignore their useful evidence from the supposed moral highpoint of a distant cozy armchair is plumb foolish!

Nevertheless, it was and remains a signal disappointment to many here in Scotland that the BBC as a whole is behaving so manifestly badly – whatever else we expected, we didn’t expect the BBC to trash its well-deserved reputation for impartiality so wilfully. But a lot of individuals working there clearly feel that they personally have a lot to lose from enhanced Scottish autonomy, and no-one in the place seems to be making any serious attempt to rein them in.

heedtracker

Robert J. Sutherland says:
7 April, 2016 at 8:48 pm
Well, NeoconNat you clearly are obsessed with BBC bias to the point of paranoia,

That’s my thing.

Also

but it’s not evidently a conspiracy from on high, more likely an unspoken and uncoordinated coalition of individual attitudes: institutional bias, in other words.

What evidence is there of the on high BBC freak show were NOT dictating BBC Scotland’s terrorising and monstering of their Scotland region?

Even BBC World Service piles in with their sneaky creepy Project Fear, all the time.

galamcennalath

heedtracker says:

“It’s The Vow wot won it, BBC, all the newspapers, STV, Project Fear but mainly the devo-max, federal UK The Vow.”

I agree completely. The final deceitful offers won it. Without that it would have been 55:45, I am convinced.

Imagine the BBC had remained impartial (hard), or Project Fear had contained fewer lies, then Yes would have closed in on the 50% earlier.

If Cameron had unleashed his more-powers plan earlier, it would have been scrutised and he would have had to firm up on what was actually being offered.

It would have been proper DevoMax if he had delivered cast iron guarantees, or Indy if not.

NroconNat

Sutherland, I didn’t suggest what might explain the bias, only that it’s there. And it’s very convenient that it’s there.

As for what Macwhirter said about institutional bias, that’s page 1, day 1, media studies level stuff. Actually, to be really specific, Chomsky & Herman nailed that structural stuff in the mid ’70s.

I have problems with the analysis of Macwhirter though, hs explanation makes no sense. Are we really to believe the BBC is getting its editorial from ticker tape? Seriously? If that’s true, it’s more shocking than a team of creepy old men conspiring in a dark, smoke-filled room.

Anyone who has any familiarity here will know that only the smaller news agencies follow the leaders systematically like that.

It’s nonsense and it doesn’t explain the self-censoring and bias that individuals bring to the job, the stuff they themselves are unaware of like class values etc.

It makes sense to assume that the reason people like Macwhirter get jobs like that in the first place is because they have the sort of values that the corporate media and decision makers at the BBC don’t find threatening in the first place. Aside from the usual class bias, In Scotland that means pro-unionist values.

heedtracker

galamcennalath says:
7 April, 2016 at 9:05 pm
heedtracker says:

Its something we will obviously never know. It must have pulled NO votes back from 50-50 because it was pretty terrifying. Being terrorised by likes of the BBC isn’t fun at all.

Fact is they kept devo-max off the ballot paper then stuck it back on at the very last minute but why did the whole UKOK Brit establishment freak out like this so late in their giant campaign, is another teamGB mystery.

We know they were watching postal votes coming in from the start, so it may be that they were showing a YES win right up to their historic The Vow shyste.

One thing is for sure. The whole of the BBC, from top to bottom, were full on Project Fearing, not just BBC Scotland gits.

The on going issue now, is BBC led continuing Project Feat SNPbad campaign. Are they really capable of getting SLab back in or are they only just keeping them from oblivion? BBC Scotland news black out of SNP MP’s in Westminster and BBC England still treating the Libdem’s like the third party, is a huge component of their attack propaganda.

Keep Scotland ignorant of SNP Westminster, target and monster a couple of SNP MP’s as hard as possible.

Either way, its not a democracy. Its dictatorship by media goons.

Ian Brotherhood

@NeconNat –

When you use ‘we’, who are you referring to?

Thepnr

galamcennalath says:

“I agree completely. The final deceitful offers won it. Without that it would have been 55:45, I am convinced.”

Your maybe right, I for sure don’t know. Though I do believe a few days before the vote it was neck and neck and without the Vow? well who knows.

The Yoons still go on and on about accepting the result, well we did of course, there were no riots, no trouble at all. The result WAS accepted, be it with much disappointment and even depression among Yes voters.

Here’s the thing though, attitudes change, that’s why we have a general election in the UK. People will change their mind and I expect this will happen next time we come to vote on Independence as there will be a next time.

That’s what Unionists can;t accept, the fact that there will be a next time and their lies will be less effective as the Wee Black Book points out everything they predicted that would happen with a Yes has actually happened with a No vote.

Carry on, no rush. Kepp trying to persuade the older members of your own family and those of your neighbours. We are right, no worries from me. Right will win in the end.

Robert J. Sutherland