The object of power
We were a bit startled to be leaked this early draft from the 2021 SNP manifesto:
We’re sure it’ll be softened up a bit in the editing process.
We jest, of course. The passage above is from “1984”, but we were put alarmingly in mind of it as we watched the weekend’s reaction to the announcement that a new pro-indy list party, the Independence for Scotland Party, has just been registered with the Electoral Commission.
To be honest, readers, we’d always assumed that a large part of the mind-boggling hostility towards the idea of a Wings party from certain sections of the Yes movement was largely founded in personal animosity. (One website has now published, we think, over 30 articles packed with increasing amounts of raging personal abuse about it, although none of them have ever attempted to address the arguments in Gavin Barrie’s calm, professional analysis from last September.)
And that would be fair enough, because Wings can be pretty abrasive on occasion and we do rub people up the wrong way, sometimes on purpose. We’re not for everyone, only fans of facts and reason.
But as it turns out, these people pounce like pissed-off piranha on anyone who dares to try to increase the amount of pro-indy seats in Parliament, even those who’ve never told a living soul to f-off in their lives.
We’ve already highlighted the extraordinary case of the SNP pressure group convener who openly said he’d rather lose the pro-indy majority than have a huge one that relied on another party.
Now, we’d never really expected any different from the party’s Twitler Youth faction of rapey-looking woman-haters and brainless handmaidens mostly centred on the “Out For Indy” and “Young Scots for Independence” groups.
(World’s skeeviest boy-band ever, right? And those are just the ones brave enough to actually put their faces on their profiles. THEY chose those malevolent glares.)
Their members and supporters immediately started spewing abuse at the young women leading the new party (all of whom are using their own names), trying to “doxx” their personal lives, questioning their funding (of which there’s none yet as far as we know) and, most delightfully of all, challenging their ethnic purity like a bunch of racist BNP meatheads demanding a brown person tell them what country they’re “really” from, because one of them had the temerity to be born outside Scotland and come and make her life there.
We could have posted literally hundreds of these. Most impressive of all, though, was perhaps the enthusiasm of Stirling YSI activist Cameron Archibald, formerly known as “MammothWhale”, to join in with the witch-hunt.
It’s only a few days since Archibald was forced to grovellingly apologise to another young woman for abusing her publicly and vitriolically on a completely false premise, since which time he’s wiped his Twitter history – including, of course, the short-lived apologies – to cover up his history of abuse, and changed the account name to “The Stirling Wolf”.
(Young Cameron doesn’t want any ugly closet-skeletons getting in the way of his future SNP career. He can rest assured that we have a selection stored in the archive. After all, that’s how the party likes to go about things.)
But the pile-on was joined by a sneering gang of ostensibly pro-indy sites, including one which had loudly advocated voting for RISE in 2015 but is now apparently SNP hyper-loyalist, all proclaiming that the new party could “undermine” a pro-indy majority.
Bizarrely, all did so by citing recent opinion polls which suggest that the SNP will secure a majority in 2021 on constituency seats alone, which would mean that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING any other party could do would “undermine” that majority.
Those same polls also suggest that the SNP would be very lucky to get more than ONE seat on the list even from over a million votes, and a better definition of “wasted” votes than that we struggle to imagine. A new list party getting even a tenth as many would almost certainly pick up seven or eight seats rather than just one.
But the SNP react with such indignance and outrage to the thought of anyone but them representing independence in Parliament that they sent out their official attack dog (and would-be House Of Commons Speaker) Pete Wishart to pour more opprobrium on the new-born party, in a blog post that’s also been published by The National today.
(Wishart was last seen, incidentally, celebrating the removal of the world’s most read pro-indy website from Twitter.)
The new party has of course been accused of being a “sock puppet” for Wings or part of a “Wings cabal”, with all sorts of dark mutterings about the fact that we’ve conversed with its founders on Twitter.
But the truth is we don’t actually think it’s a particularly great idea, for all the reasons we’ve detailed at length when talking about the potential Wings party and why we’re thinking about it when we said voting for RISE et al wouldn’t work in 2015. Our view is that the only chance a new list party has of succeeding is if it has a well-known brand or profile or leadership figures – RISE didn’t and nor does the IfSP. And the more list parties there are the harder it is for any of them to succeed.
However, we haven’t reacted by screaming hysterical abuse at them or claiming that they “stole” our idea or that they’re foul traitors to independence or that it would be in some way “undemocratic” for them to stand for election in a democracy.
(One of the oddest things about the whole affair is how many self-identified supporters of independence are now professing their grave concern that the Tories might end up slightly under-represented in Holyrood.)
We admire the fact that they’ve actually gone ahead and done something that we haven’t done yet. And we heartily support all of the policy positions they’ve announced so far: independence, women’s rights and disabled rights, which are all evidence of “bigotry” according to the Twitler Youth. If the election came round with IfSP as the only new option for Yes voters, Wings would endorse them without hesitation.
The idea of a new indy list party has revealed a truly grotesque aspect of the SNP’s character – a control freakery that borders on fascistic. New parties which share the SNP’s supposed primary aim aren’t welcomed into the Scottish political sphere as colleagues and allies or even as legitimate opponents, but attacked and demonised and derided and accused of being saboteurs in the service of Unionism.
Nobody should expect the SNP to tell voters to vote for another party, of course. But their active paranoid obsession with collecting completely worthless list votes and letting dozens of extra Unionist MSPs into the Parliament is a pretty strange way to behave for people who ostensibly value securing independence above all else.
It’s almost certainly one of the main reasons we get a steady stream of emails like this one from earlier today, and why they never release membership figures any more:
And the reason given in that one brings us right back to where we came in.
We fervently wish that the current SNP didn’t make us feel quite so much like Winston Smith. But more and more, their means actually appear to be their end. In Scotland as in Oceania, the object of power appears to be power.
This might be more appropriate on this thread.
Pete Wishart in the National newspaper today, urging folk not to vote for any other indy party next year except the SNP.
Wishart claims the other indy parties including one that the Rev might form are full with flawed characters that will do nothing but bicker among themselves, and damage the indy cause.
Wishart should look closer to home at the SNP, which is full of flawed woke characters who promised we’d remain the EU and promised us independence over the last four years but delivered neither.
They are good at fitting up old leaders though. Meanwhile the (ISP) the Independence for Scotland Party, which I will give my list to, has already been slandered by the woke community calling it a TERF party, a derogatory term for women, the party was founded by women.
I urge everyone to give their list vote next year to the Independence for Scotland Party, unless of course the Rev’s party (If he forms one that is) is approved by the Electoral Commission in time.
What’s this about blasphemy laws in your example email Stu?
My slight concern now is that it would be counterproductive if there are several new parties all with the same idea.
I still hope and would vote for a Wings Party but this Independence for Scotland Party and any others that emerge may take votes away that Wings would otherwise have gotten.
Coronavirus is going to take them down. The sooner you realise it, the better. It’s nuclear.
“What’s this about blasphemy laws in your example email Stu?”
The dreadful new “hate crime” bill.
@Scott
Its not counterproductive. All the supposed indy parties need to agree on is independence. That’s it
Any who pretend its anything else will paint themselves for what they are – hacks using indy votes.
That’s the SNP.
If Mike Small is agin it, I would be prepared to die on that hill.
Rev: I had hoped that you were part of the group forming this party. If they invite you, please consider joining them as your abilities will be invaluable.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
11 May, 2020 at 1:41 pm
“What’s this about blasphemy laws in your example email Stu?”
The dreadful new “hate crime” bill.
Jesus fucking christ.
I’d vote for them. I would also hope that others will join it and stand, others like Stu Campbell, Alex Salmond and Craig Murray.
Horses for courses 🙂
It certainly can open up the debate, for example Marco Biago just suggested that the D’Hondt system should be replaced by… something else that didn’t have list MSPs. Coincidence?
Originally, years ago, I had some difficulty in really understanding the D’Hondt system well enough to realise that a list party would actually help the cause of independence.
I won’t be a party member but would vote for them on a case basis.
.
Anyway, times have certainly changed. I now think it is imperative that the woke harem surrounding the dear leader are challenged. Sooner or later they have to go.
Otherwise we will not be looking at a free Scotland for a long time.
wise words stu, the independence movement seems to be festering in their bunkers scratching at their sores waiting to go over the top just now. I have read all your stuff and like your abrasive style. You haven’t let me down so far and this is a complicated argument that may take history to decide who was right. On analysis of the voting system alone though I will give the new party a shot, but please for gods sake only make it one list party, we don’t want that life of Brian joke coming alive.
I think I was the only commentator on here back in 2014 and post the referendum who said it was not good enough just to see a surge in membership and it was not business as usual. What was needed was a full and comprehensive post-mortem.
A total overhaul of the party and its policies with a view to finding out exactly why we lost.
Save the cursory “it was the Vow that won it” or “media lies”.
There was no analysis of specifically why policies appealed to someone living in and estate in Dundee, and were implacably opposed by someone living in the Shetlands.
If you ask me the SNP high command know why this is, but they just want to keep on motoring and leave the engine overhaul for another owner.
the only chance a new list party has of succeeding is if it has a well-known brand or profile or leadership figures
spot on, i made the mistake in 2016 of confusing the electoral arithmetic with popularity
the electoral arithmetic was and still is sound, but regardless, the people didnt trust the greens (even less so now) and wouldnt/didnt vote for them in sufficient numbers.
trust is everything here
My eternal inner cynic suggested to me that the new party is an attempt to pre-empt the WoS/Salmond list party.
I have no idea who they are, so I’m fine with them if you are Stu.
Pete Wishart & co are basing their 2021 predictions on recent polls, however it might all be different next year. The SNP needs a clear out, beginning with Nicola, Peter & all the Woke disciples. I know Alex Salmond said he will wait until Coronavirus crisis has passed but how long is that going to take? Will Nicola keep extending lockdown to save her own skin? I understand Alex is writing a book but should he not begin legal action now, as it will take months at least, to get to court? Can Alex not provide an excerpt from his book or reveal more details of what it includes? Perhaps he can write a guest blog on Wings?
PS. Hope you are well Stu, I miss your twitter posts.
I agree sadly, in that I don’t think this new party will gain much traction, although I applaud them for having the gumption and the bravery to actually do something and wish them every success. However the reaction from certain quarters that the creation of this new party has provoked is wonderful to behold. The masks have well and truly slipped, the curtain has been pulled back, ripped off the hooks and burned. “Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out”.
For that service alone the new party should be applauded.
Victoria has half the movement on block. Loves a good old targeted pile on. And blocked me and my mum due to having poison dripped in her ears about us. There’s been more of a hoo ha over this than when I was being doxxed threatened and having Tena lady sent to my house. Julie got death threats last year and so has Cameron Archibald. I actually left the snp over all of this but will I consider voting for a party that has anything to do with Victoria? No I won’t. She’s had plenty to say about me behind my back (as have half the movement). I hope they disappear up their very self important backsides. Sooner rather than later. Both votes snp.
I voted for Collette Walker as Equalities Officer or Women’s Officer (I forget which, probably both) at the last SNP Conference. We had a long list of people and were asked to rate them 1,2,3,4 etc. I put Collette first as I knew she was supportive of women’s rights and not in the woke faction. But she was less well known than other candidates such as Fiona Robertson and Rhiannon Spear, both of whom are woke incumbents.
Collette came out as favourite in the first round. IIRC she remained favourite until the final round, of about 6, when Fiona Robertson and Rhiannon Spear won. This is the STV system in operation.
I would appreciate another Gavin Barrie article on voting systems and how they can be gamed. If Marco Biagi thinks the D’Hondt system should go then we need to know what the implications are.
BTW Marco Biagi is a former SNP MSP. But fixing the voting system to prevent an independence majority would obviously be the goal of the Westminster government.
I don’t think they’re trying to queer the Wings pitch, although that could be the result. They’re women who are particularly concerned about the gender activist takeover in the SNP.
It’s relatively early days but I hope we can end up with a single credible list party to take this on. I don’t see this effort as being credible with the wider electorate unfortunately. However well intentioned, and I believe it is, at best it will be another RISE and make no difference to anything. At worst it could take badly needed votes away from a more credible list part.
it is difficulty to distinguish between the loony unionists and && brigade in operation and genuine citizens
The answer it ignore them and concentrate and move forward
one vote for SNP and on the list Wings
Is there is a case for the new party to only stand in the List areas where labour, conservative and Libs get their leaders??
The most important thing to know about Collette Walker is she is not Rhiannon Speirs.
Wings has lost the plot! You are doing a fine job for the Yoons.
What we need is someway to explain this to the public, as i doubt there will be much about this in the “main” media.
Is Collette Walker the ideal person to lead this party?
No big names have flocked in support.
I am somewhat underwhelmed.
If we are to prevent the development of a dozen versions of Rise-lite then we need this to shape up very quickly or vanish.
Stu, surely you either get recruited pronto or start the WINGS party ASAP.
The only person on earth who could galvanise and head a politically dangerous list party is Mr Salmond. The SNP would shit a brick.
The IfSP will have a website up soon spelling out their aims. One of them could be better representation for women at Holyrood. It is currently very poor, way behind our Scandinavian neighbours:
That doesn’t mean all the candidates should be women. But half of them could be.
link to holyrood.com
The following formed part of a comment on my blog earlier today. My emphasis.
“Clearly the list parties are a gamble but given nothing has happened in the past five years then blowing an election term or two to experiment with list parties might just be worth it.“ – link to peterabell.scot
This follows a couple of days of comments on Twitter which, while less explicit, helped reinforce the impression that the idea of handing the government of Scotland to the British Tories has already been normalised to an extent which is of very great concern to those of us who care about Scotland at least as much as we care about some narrow political agenda.
This casual, flippant acceptance of allowing the Scottish Parliament to fall back into the hands of those who would see it crippled or destroyed derives principally, if not entirely, from the promotion of so-called ‘list parties’. It is an essential part of the message being peddled by or on behalf of these parties that ‘it’s OK not to vote SNP’. This is supported by a generalised and escalating denigration of the SNP which, however justified it may be in certain specific regards, tends to obscure the fact that the single most important objective of the independence movement in relation to the next Holyrood election is ensuring the biggest win possible for the SNP.
To put an SNP administration in jeopardy on the vanishingly remote chance of getting a seat or two for some list party or parties is just plain madness. To gamble our Parliament on a bit of dubious electoral jiggery-pokery is sheer insanity. To fatally undermine the SNP at this time REGARDLESS OF ANY FAULTS OR FAILURES is tantamount to a betrayal of Scotland of the same order as that which was perpetrated in 1707.
The inanity spouted by Alyn Smith and others about ‘never closer to independence’ makes a vague kind of sense in one regard only. We have an opportunity such as has not arisen previously and such as must not be squandered as so many opportunities have over the past five years. The chance is there to use the SNP as the lever to prise Scotland out of the accursed Union. Many factors have conspired to create unprecedentedly propitious conditions. But it only works if we use the SNP.
I find it remarkable – were I given to conspiracy theories I might say suspicious – that it is precisely at this moment of unique and almost certainly never to be repeated opportunity that we are being actively encouraged to withdraw support from the SNP and turn to some cobbled-together ‘alternative’. When within the Yes movement we have people opining that a decade or more of ‘Scottish’ Tory rule “might just be worth it” something is seriously amiss.
To be perfectly honest I agree any new party has to have a well known and respected person who also has a powerfulness about them at the helm, and also good strong candidates however seeing as I’m so sick to death with the SNP as it stands today I will give this party my second vote, if they are the only real alternative at the time of the election, I only hope I have somewhere to use my first vote because as long as the administration is the same as today I’d rather not vote at all on the first vote.
I’m blocked by Wishart, an SNP politician elected to represent the people of Scotland, but blocks those who ask too many questions, hence he has made sure I can’t read his arguments that aim to prove the SNP are God’s gift to reason, all other indy support groups, marches, social sights and ESPECIALLY cybernats, are the devil incarnate.
Well, it appears we are doomed to be running a race around a mobeus. Never ending. I see nothing wrong with giving the SNP a shot across the bows. given that they put independence on the back burner at every conceivable opportunity and promote unpopular legislation the public doesn’t want.
Peter Bel! exemplifies the position. We vote SNP for independence,but they don’t seem to know how to achieve it. We can’t vote anything else in case we destroy the Indy majority. Talk about a captive audience!!
Round and round we go then chasing the impossible ending.
Something has to give .
The attack on these young women is appalling.
I haven’t seen Nicola, let’s make Scotland a welcoming country, pull up any of the arseholes.
I would imagine the new party might withdraw if this continues.
These people are evil wankers
Peter A Bell
Last scotgov election got 4 list seats .That system allowed the unionists to get 46 more seats than SNP.
How the hell can you explain this and say that SNP on list is the way to go?
link to twitter.com
Posted on Grouse Beater together with a challenge to the SNP to denounce to censorship of Wings Over Scotland’s twitter sites.
“We’ve reached a serious stage of indoctrination when we feel compelled to prefix praise of Wings Over Scotland with, “I am not a fan of Stu Campbell its editor, but …”
robbo
Now that you’ve got that crap off your chest, try reading what I actually said.
Grouse Beater
Who is compelling you? How? That’s as pathetic a bit of victim-posturing as ever I’ve seen.
Colette Walker was an SNP activist.
She would have had to resign if she set up
A new party but did she approach SNP to discuss
Her concerns about why she wants to leave and give
Them competition?
To my mind SNP have set this whole thing up to hinder
The formation. Of a Wings Party.
You don’t resign from a party without setting out your reasons
And you don’t set up a new party without saying why you are different.
A real Scotland First Party will need to be formed before the next election .
For Peter Wishart, could a new party draw in the wrong type of characters
Well they could find themselves like SNP where officials have stolen money,
Committed adultery, form dangerous relationships with young boys, desire
Positions within the English Establishment that we want to leave and possibly
Make a co-ordinated false witness statement against an innocent man.
Yes Peter a new party could have the same profile as the SNP Characters above
But very unlikely they find as many as the SNP has.
I will continue to give my 1st vote to the SNP. However as I have always done my 2nd vote will go to the Greens no SSP candidate in my area. Reason we need Diverse views in Holyrood not Clones of the SNP. If we get Clones Holyrood ends up like WM. REV STU PLEASE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
Like I said in a previous thread. 50:50 in the independence polls suits the SNP just fine as well as 54% on the HR election polls – no need to rock the boat too much. Just enough seats on the constituency vote to win a narrow majority or run as a minority government.
But hell no – the SNP don’t want a potential, as yet, unidentified number of pro-indy non-SNP list seats holding their feet to the fire.
They’re fine with the Greens as they’re soft on indy as well so they’re useful chumps only when needed.
But a real pro-indy list party gunning for independence action in Holyrood – now that’s a headache the SNP really don’t need.
Now if they really wanted indy you’d think they’d want to have all those useless unionist list MSPs replaced with pro-indy MSPs – hmmmm can’t think why they’re not supportive!!!!!
Recognized it straight away from 1984
I know very senior people in SNP have floated idea of an independence list party. Best ignore Pere Wishart.
Concerned with the accusation Pete Wishart was celebrating the demise of Wings related accounts twitter. I recall that was a twitter response to Stu blocking him before he was removed from twitter as per previous article / post.
I see Mr Bell has written his piece again. Another know-nothing who doesn’t understand (and indeed doesn’t want to understand) the clear opportunities of cannibalising the wasted SNP list vote. If you can bring yourself to wade through his constipated prose, it appears that his pitch is actually that the Yes movement will somehow magically be able to use the SNP as its creature to deliver independence in spite of itself.
This is a delusion on the scale of those right wing nationalists in Weimar Germany who were absolutely confident they could use the NSDAP then discard them at their leisure.
I actually have my doubts the SNP will gain an absolute majority in Holyrood in 2021: a lot can happen over the next 12 months. Even if they do however, what’d the downside of denying yoon parties list seats at Holyrood? Why the hard of thinking like Mr Bell and those who share his delusion like “Pop Goes My Credibility” Kelly refuse to accept the simple arithmetic so clearly outlined by Gavin Barrie remains one of the mysteries of the age, on par with wondering how Bella Caledonia is still a thing, or why Pete Wishart’s friends haven’t staged an intervention yet.
I’d certainly sooner see a half dozen or so MSP’s from a Wings Party, or one led by Alex Salmond or IfSP or any combination thereof than tolerate more britnat sentient spam cluttering up Holyrood. Bloviating no-marks like Bell, Kelly and Small (as well as the SNP leadership and their woke Sturm Abteilung) would of course sooner see a minority SNP administration post 2021 than admit they are wrong.
@Peter Bell,
Your position is therefore to keep voting SNP regardless of how many BLATANT opportunities they pass up to maximise the vote for independence, and indeed display a lack of appetite in all their quotes from their MPs ( Miss Cherry excluded).
If the SNP are not actively chasing independence what difference does that make to individuals who vote for them solely for that outcome? That includes myself.
That’s like walking across a surface strewn with rocks wearing shoes two sizes too small, then coming across a new pair the which are the right size, but refusing to wear them in case they hurt your feet!!
Some folk saying.
“No bad thing if the Unionists get a shot for a couple of Scottish parliament sessions… because” FGS!
That’ll work out well then. 🙁
SNP first vote:
List party will get my 2nd vote if it is basically a one issue Independence party and endorsed by a few folk that are trusty names.
Without Holyrood secured at home the engine for Independence is
gone and for a long long time.
All those (‘perks’) in Scotland that we and other things in the pipe line gone.
Already in the last week we have seen and heard a brand new song on BBC reporting and also by a PM who has miss-stepped.
Scotland , Wales and Ireland do actually exist!
Boris blatantly going out on his own last Tuesday promising shiny new changes and ignoring the other three countries, cancelling the 4-nations meeting only to be brought to heel when they demanded a meeting which took place and suddenly his big deal announcement became a damp squib overnight!
Even that has been a PR disaster with nobody able to explain what is going on. A vague message with no answers.
The best part being that the PM had, on air, to admit that he was speaking for England only. Imagine that…image that have you heard that before?
There has been a change and some folk are now realising it.
Now we hear in England
1. face coverings to be worn in shops and public transport.
(FM said that 2-weeks ago)
2. travel anywhere but not across another country’s border
(Wales and Scotland acknowledged)
3. Quarantine (not watertight but another admission)
Scotland was correct
Oh!…. I hear the buffoon starting his to do list in Parliament I better listen in might hear more England only stuff 🙁
Peter A Bell says:
11 May, 2020 at 3:28 pm
robbo
Now that you’ve got that crap off your chest, try reading what I actually said.
——————–
I’m not quite sure what i said was crap?
Are the figures wrong? Did this not happen?
OK. I’m voting for the Adult Human Female if they put up candidate.
I see Bojoland and Russia have an almost identical number
Of Covid 19 Cases, 220,000.
Russia has suffered 2,000 deaths while our Boris has dispatched
Over 32,000.
What a guy, what a leader, what the F***?
The following statement was submitted by Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party (SIRP) – http://www.SIRP.Scot – to Pete Wishart’s one-sided, non-fact-based website article;
*
So much negativity.
Instead of saying ‘ it’ll never work’, try to MAKE IT WORK.
And read the full party constitution, aims and objectives (here) – http://www.SIRP.Scot – before coming to prematurely negative assumptions.
As Nelson Mandela famously said: “Everything is impossible. Until it becomes possible’.
How to maximise the Scots Indy vote + join
http://www.SIRP.Scot
Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party (read ‘n learn)
SNP voters can vote first choice for SNP and then vote ‘second’ choice for Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party.
Result = no ‘wasted’ second-votes
Latest polling of 54% Constituency votes to SNP equates to 67 MSPs a majority in its own right the 45% support for SNP on Regional list equates to JUST 1 seat.
Even if 33% of those Regional lists going to a new Indy party if supporters gave them the nod would equate to 29 pro indy MSPs.
This is far better than just one 1 additional seat to SNP when a second-list vote for SIRP (in a progressive alliance with the SNP) would elect almost 100 pro-Indy MSPs to Holyrood.
Mark R Whittet (LLB, BA)
Leader
Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party
Mark@SIRP.Scot
@ScotsIndyRef3
link to scotlandsindependencereferendumparty.scot
link to scotlandsindependencereferendumparty.scot
Defo @ 2:10
Ditto on the first part
Ditto on the second part (for now)
I see many in the SNP support have moved on from Braveheart to Highlander.
The idea of a List party is brilliant thus potentially unstoppable.This at a time when the highly critical Right-On minority and their gullible pals, to my mind, give every impression that they’re happy with the busted status quo.
@Jfngw,
There can only be one.(party).
They don’t seem able however to read peoples thoughts!
I do not make comments on other Pro-Indy blogs.I do however feel very strongly about this particular issue. I should declare an interest.I know Colette, we were both in same SNP Constituency Party. Over the past year or so I have had many discussions with both her and Victoria about their plans.I suggested to them that they should reach out and come to an accommodation with other like-minded individuals and groupings with similar aims.The Alliance for Yes Group of Pat Lee and Jim Manclark for example.Those guys have already announced a desire to work the List and remove Unionists.They too have met with hostility. I appreciate the girls have had some dialogue with others including Stu who has in the past expressed the possibility of creating his own List Party. I agree with others on here this List idea is the best and only way to remove the Unionist seat warmers from Holyrood. I too agree it will have the best impact if it is a single Party.I also realise that any Party needs to be fronted by a well respected and trusted individual.I certainly know of one high profile and popular indy supporting person that I think could be interested if the circumstances were correct. It would also help if the Pro-Indy Media also supported this concept. I know one or two that are openly hostile to any challenge to the SNP hegemony, there are others like myself that embrace this concept wholeheartedly. I personally think a List Party is a great idea,this present Party though I think should be viewed as a work in progress.These are two lovely decent, honest women I think they deserve any help others in the YES Movement can provide. You Stu are a vital part of any success or failure going forward.Without at a minimum, your support,this enterprise will struggle to get off the ground. We need a few high profile people to endorse,lead,represent or be on any governing body.We all know there is more to winning elections than just sticking some names on the ballot paper. We need to get organising and campaigning pretty soon the election is possibly only 12 months away.For the avoidance of any doubt I have no skin in the game, no desire to be an MSP or office bearer. I do however offer my fullhearted support to the venture going forward in any way that is seen as helpful.
Paul
Trans-activism is incompatible with a legal respect for the human genome and global health law. The SNP don’t simply tolerate trans-activism, they actively endorse it. If you support gender-ideology in law, you are not a democrat. Ask the United Nations or the World Health Organisation.
The SNP is creating a legal environment that is hostile towards the principles of “universality” and “equality in law”. Possible because they have run out of ideas and lack legal insight and imagination?
Access to justice, the common law and human rights
In the second of her series of articles, Angela Patrick looks at how the common law protects the fundamental right of access to justice.
https://www.lag.org.uk/article/201772/access-to-justice–the-common-law-and-human-rights
Surely an independent Scotland with multiple parties where everyone gets their voice heard is where we want to be heading? Not a totalitarian (one party holds all the power (SNP sic) Orwellian utopia set up)
As for the dreaded “hate policy” thingy now that is straight out of a thought police nightmare, imagine making Misogyny a crime but not Misandery (spelling?) shows exactly where that is heading.
So Peter A Bell ,whats the First Ministers plan for Independence?
Blasphemy laws?What ,are we now living in the Middle Ages?
Jings! 🙂
PMQs….an MP says
“There is only a three Nation approach, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland”. Then asks Boris.
“Is the PM acting only as the PM of England” 🙂
Boris says “No”…. err….Yes… err…No
Effigy 3.46
All very well slagging off Sturgeon and BOJO but are you not suspicious about the Russian figures?
Every day they declare high numbers of cases but minuscule numbers of deaths.
No fan of Sturgeon but I think you should be questioning the Russian figures
Russia like Turkey has a majority population under 50 years of age.Covid appears less severe in outcome in that demographic.
@ Roddy MacLeod – thx Roddy that’s helpful. Of course we would want to hear from some high profile people with an interest in independence to see whether they are prepared to back this party.
@ Peter Bell – I don’t understand your antipathy to a list party. It won’t compete with the SNP in the constituency seats. The Unionists have three list parties and get most of their seats that way. Do you dispute the arithmetic? Please explain.
The SNP are high in the polls atm but we can’t rely on that being the case a year from now. The media have yet to use their high explosive ammunition, the woke agenda. Once that is broadcast throughout the press in a campaign the SNP vote will drop. They show absolutely no sign of dealing with the threat. On the contrary, they double down with the Hate Crime Bill.
A week is a long time in politics. A year is an eternity. If we are going to do something about the D’Hondt system and it’s effect on the seat tally in Holyrood, we have to start now.
One thing that should be clear is that if we ever have another referendum and win, the next day, just as EVEL was announced, we immediately have Scottish Parties for Scottish Laws and all parties not entirely based in Scotland are removed and elections held to replace these MSP’s. The same people can stand but they need to be with Scottish based parties and the oath also immediately changed to the people of Scotland.
Hmm! Boris not at his best today, flagging almost.
Maybe needing his howling hordes on the back benches to boost his meanderings a bit. Bojo’s mojo’s lost in the new digital PMQs?
BBC figures today + SUN online.
Scotland……….today…..05……..Total….1862…BBC
Wales………….today…..05……..Total….1116…BBC
N. Ireland……..today…..03……..Total…..438…BBC
England………..today…no data…..Total…no data
=========================================================
UK…………….today…*210……..Total..*32065…*SUN
Listening to Bawjaws making as much sense as he did last night , with the usual Tory arse wipes behind him and video link congratulating him and his government for their speedy clear decisive actions during this crisis ,what f/in planet are this lot on ,it must take a certain type of Psychopathic nut job to assume they are right and everyone else is stark raving bloody looney , and to take it off with such confidence ,
If there’s a God please take these Tory half-wits back and mark them as faulty merchandise , a mistake in production , not fit for purpose .
I found a postcard image of a Rebel Alliance X-Wing pilot giving the Thumbs-Up with “Let’s Go” and “Wings for Victory” slogans. I’m dying to use it.
The likelihood of handing Holyrood to the British Tories is so remote that I would like to see how the maths of this works out, it would require a total collapse of the SNP constituency vote. If that is the case then the regional vote would almost have certainly collapsed as well and the game would be up anyway.
In my opinion the Tory vote has max’d out having attracted all the Britnats that they can, there is no more of the deranged types for them to attract. Also their current leader in Scotland is a complete arse, in fact the result of ‘operation arse’ I would say.
This is too depressing for words. And no, I don’t mean the new ISP party.
All the chuntering here on Wings month after month, everybody accusing everybody else of being a troll or a SNPbadmouth, and all the time, the SNP was quietly deconstructing itself from within, and handing over it’s soul to these malicious woke narcissists, who manifestly don’t give two fks about Scottish Independence.
And this don’t forget, is BEFORE the seismic bowel movements which Alex Salmond’s book is promising to deliver, at least for a select few who shall remain nameless.
What’s depressing?
Because a List Party is aiming so low. It’s aiming merely to have influence, just influence, in a lowly devolved legislature which has already pledged its fealty and subservience to Westminster, as it’s recognised sovereign overlord.
Holyrood doesn’t respect Scotland’s constitution or democracy, because on the day the Brexit referendum results were declared, Holyrood stuck it’s snout in the air, and walked right past a constitutionally sovereign mandate from the people of Scotland, that could have, and should have, stopped Scotland’s Brexit in it’s tracks, and even better, it would have left the Union of the United Kingdom wholly and completely untenable way back in 2016.
If Scotland as a nation is so mind numbingly stupid that people cannot understand what having a robust and sovereign Constitution actually means, then we should not be asking these people to make political decisions any more than we should be handing a sharp pair of scissors to a deranged lunatic and asking him what he plans to do with them.
Scotland needed a modern day champion, a leader, like William Wallace or Robert the Bruce, or even better, a modern and farsighted Constitutionalist like the Abbot of Arbroath, but instead what have we got? Pete Wishart, and a discordant chorus of angry mixed up weirdos who can’t seem to tell the difference between a man and a woman, or judge what is or isn’t acceptable to subject impressionable children to.
Scotland the Brave? You’re having a laugh. This nation is fkg lunatic asylum.
You know the irony of all this wokist horseshite? Most of us grew up in the era of David Bowie, a spectacularly creative phenomenon who was weird, deviant and unsettling, pushing boundaries you didn’t even know were there to be pushed, indulging sexual ambivalence and attempting to make transgenderism seductive. You want to promote Transgender issues, but do it constructively and successfully? Away you go, strap yourself in, and study the life and career of David Bowie.
All this machismo and hatred towards women? Man alive, I have no idea where on Earth this rage comes from, nor what it is trying to achieve. It’s a screw loose obsession that cannot be symptomatic of a healthy mind. It tries to be something spiritual and ethereal, but really, it’s just a rather contrived rendition of a very “ordinary” prejudice against women, which is simply the same misogyny and threat of violence which has plagued women since basically,..forever.
I’m in full on Joseph Heller Catch-22 meltdown these days. People think we need a referendum to fix our broken and dysfunctional democracy, but if the democracy is broken and dysfunctional, then what good can come from a referendum?
We need a Constitutional reset. Nothing less will be sufficient to stop the merry-go-round. We need to reboot the primary operating system… the Sovereign Constitution of the Scottish Nation.
Do not be sidetracked or waylaid by the Scotland Act / Sewell Convention which forms the constitution of the devolved assembly at the foot of the Royal Mile. “That” constitution comes with a small ‘c’ and didn’t even exist before 1998!!! It is NOT the Constitution of the Nation!!! We must be careful to choose the correct constitution to inform your actions; the 1320 Declaration of Arbroath, it’s accordant recognition from the Pope in 1328, and International recognition from England via the 1328 Treaty of Northampton/Edinburgh. “That” is the Constitution of Scotland which enshrines popular sovereignty upon the Scottish people. THERE IS NO OTHER. Dispense with this Constitution at your peril, and the grievous peril of the Nation of Scotland, and this distinction is I promise you, a much more important issue than any referendum or election.
@jfngw
That’s a good point. I don’t know the protocols involved.
But 5 will get you 10 that many in the other parties will just turn their jaickets inside out and hint at always having a love of the grand old country…. really we did….really honest. 🙂
Pete, I haven’t slagged off our First Minister but I have torn apart the
Pathological Liar Boris.
You are suspicious of Russia.
I’m certain Russia hasn’t lied to me half as much as the Tory Party and Boris.
Let’s see, Tory claim we don’t know what was in the Cygnus Report but we can’t see it for proof.
The UK government is better prepared for Civid than anyone?
There are plentiful supplies of PPE Stockpiled?
They say PPE is being delivered in required numbers to whoever needs it?
Covid has been downgraded so it doesn’t need as much PPE?
English Death figures Hospital only? The other deaths count and matter.
Masks for the public have no effect Lady week, this week wear a mask.
Testing will be ramped up to 10,000 by this date. No it wasn’t .
Testing will be at 100,000 by this date, well if posting them out and not processing counts.
Now to the best of my knowledge the Russians haven’t killed any UK citizens in the last 100 years
But Boris has killed over 30,000 in the last few weeks.
In summary Private Pete, I’d trust a Russian well before Boris and the Tories!
What it has exposed is many of these so called SNP liberals are at heart no more than the racist misogynist bigots you found in the BNP. Just imagine if an elected MP was partner to one of these bigots, surely the party would shun this.
“Who is compelling you? How? That’s as pathetic a bit of victim-posturing as ever I’ve seen.” Peter Bell
By god, you’re in a cantankerous, no prisoners mood today.
Taking your advice and handing it back: “Read what I wrote”.
@Breeks —
Hear hear, as aye.
The Catch-22 reference also applies to any discussion of this fucking ‘bug’.
Breastplate and Joe and a few others continue to try and offer some sense on the subject and are instantly howled down. There appears to be no ‘middle-ground’ possible on this subject, it’s either the worst thing since the Black Death or you give yourself a lemsip, a kick up the arse and get over it.
We’re played for fools on this and a plethora of other life-changing subjects because, by and large, we *are* fools – lazy, biddable, ingenuous self-centred eejits, and who cares if we’re brainwashed? So long as the fitba’s on and we’ve enough for a few pints, who gives a fuck?!
The football isn’t on any more
You can’t go to the pub.
‘Ach well, so long as there’s something oan The Netflix and we’ve enough for a carry-out, who gives a fuck? Wha’s like us an aw that!’
Aye, who’s like us right enough…
🙁
I’ve said it before and I will keep saying it until I am blue in the face. Scotland does not need a pro-independence list-only party. What it needs is a party prepared to campaign in the constituencies as well. It needs a party that has two aims:
Firstly, the restoration of Scottish national sovereignty, limited only by agreements with other countries, freely entered into.
Secondly, the furtherance of all Scottish interests.
Why do we need that? Quite simply, because no party in Scotland fits that bill. One might argue that this would put the cause of independence back by years. I argue that it would not – indeed, it could not. Why so? Because the Scottish National Party is no more a pro-independence party than the others in the Scottish Parliament.
“I’ve said it before and I will keep saying it until I am blue in the face. Scotland does not need a pro-independence list-only party. What it needs is a party prepared to campaign in the constituencies as well.”
If you’ve got a spare couple of million quid to fund such a thing I’m sure we’d all love to hear about it. A list party is a financially viable option.
Peter A Bell @ 3:02
For God’s sake man, open your eyes!!!
If you bother to look, you’ll see the great big shiny 5 litre, 800bhp, supercharged roadster called the SNP, which was supposed to drive us all to an Indy Scotland, has had its engine dismantled by a bunch of biology denying wokist zealots, hell-bent on creating a Trans-utopia where a failure to conform to any and every pro-Trans policy/law will land you behind bars.
Yet you and the likes of Pete Wishy-Washout keep trotting out the same b-s that we’re risking Indy by not blindly surrendering our votes to the almighty SNP. We’re risking the very fabric of devolution in Scotland by not giving unquestioning support to the SNP and its 5th Column of Trans activists.
I’ve been pro-Indy all my adult life; a member, activist, candidate (twice) and all-round cheerleader for the SNP.
Peter, let me assure you, having read this article and seen the screen shots, if I wasn’t already done with the SNP on the basis of the empty rhetoric of the paper tigers at Westminster, with their “We will not allow…” bluffoonery, or Sturgeon’s Brexit-day “be patient”, or put another way ‘now is not the time’, appeasement of Boris, or the GRA madness – I am now!
What a nonsense that idea of dirty water gives you cholera, I’m drinking the shitty water because it’s my right to do so, anyone that disagrees with me is just shouting me down.
No it’s not the Black Death because there was effectively no science or infection control methods in that period.
If you agree with the same people I do then you have a balanced opinion, if not you are a lazy brainwashed idiot, it’s a compelling argument I must admit.
Let me get this straight….
The Judean People’s Front
or
The People’s Front of Judea?
I’ll get me coat…..long day at the (remote) office
@breeks
Totally agree. Someone with guts, brains and political nous needs to lead on this? I can’t see anybody but Alex or maybe Joanna that fits the bill
100% correct on David Bowie by the way. We are active in groups even with Covid on women’s rights/GRA etc. Awareness is growing. Women are getting angry.
More parties could split the vote. On the other hand there is more diversity. Surely its up to voters to use the heid.
I muted the TV this morning as I watched Piers (AKA Lord Haw Haw) and NS debate.
you should try it, she is just cockahoop with herself, cant stop smiling (people dying), but centre stage, no less, how fulfilling for her.
Narcissist of the highest order.
The SNP are fucked from within – to think I have voted for no other Party my whole life and it has come to this.
What hope….
From The article
“Our view is that the only chance a new list party has of succeeding is if it has a well-known brand or profile or leadership figures”
I would concur with that, there is a world of difference to being well known within the bubble in which political activists dwell, than in the real world that the electorate inhabit.
I assume the high-profile “Leadeship Figures” that Rev Stu or for that matter most of the rest of us have in mind are the same people.
I for one would be suspicious of the motivation of our would-be leaders if they felt their entrenchment in a “MY BALL” Party was a prerequisite – Before throwing their weight behind the push for independence.
The three S’s Salmond, Sillars and Sheridan all have previous on that score – Would it be to much to hope that they might have learned from their mistakes?
If only a long rant could deliver independence we would be free by tomorrow.
@jfngw (5.46) –
I don’t appreciate third-rate sarcasm from someone who doesn’t even use their own name in this place.
FWIW, I include myself in the description of us as daft, brainwashed eejits. There’s not a single one of us has perfect knowledge and awareness of everything.
And yet you and a few others clamber up onto your fucking high horses anytime anyone dares even suggest that the ‘official’ narrative we’ve been getting hammered into our heads night and day for the past 2 months is open to question.
Please don’t ever ‘speak’ to me with that tone again, regardless of what topic we’re on.
ahundredthidiot says:
11 May, 2020 at 5:59 pm
I muted the TV this morning as I watched Piers (AKA Lord Haw Haw) and NS debate.
you should try it, she is just cockahoop with herself, cant stop smiling (people dying), but centre stage, no less, how fulfilling for her.
Narcissist of the highest order.
The SNP are fucked from within – to think I have voted for no other Party my whole life and it has come to this.
What hope….
———–
to think i voted NO- corrected that for you– no trouble cheers!
The final picture of the boy band is the world famous gay bear porn star Jack Radcliffe! Nice if him to be interested in Scottish Politics!
Ian Brotherhood
Sorry bud, but your simply not technically qualified to judge what is an isn’t common sense re covid.
@ Breeks @ Ian Brotherhood – Do cheer up. You’re never going to get a roomful of Scottish people to agree on anything.
e.g. Robin Williams on the Scots inventing “Golf”. He does a brilliant West of Scotland accent, clearly coached by Billy Connolly.
link to youtube.com
ahundredthidiot says:
11 May, 2020 at 5:59 pm
I turned up the TV this morning as I watched Piers (AKA The only person on TV holding the Tories to account) and as a bonus NS was on.
you should try it, she is just protecting Scotland’s Health and smiled as Piers tried to get her to agree
Bojo’s TV announcement was a Monty Python sketch that made no sense whatsoever.
She was repeatedly praised for not following the completely mixed messages from Boris
cant stop smiling at trolls trying to twist debate they didn’t even listened to.
people are dying but they want Boris centre stage, how fulfilling for the Idiots.
an here was me thinking your mair like Wolfie Smith,
POWER TO THE PEOPLE.
CBB @ 6:20
You, sir, stand formally accused of arrogance and ignorance of the highest fucking order.
Prick.
Victoria is already painting herself as a martyr because people disagree with her on twitter. Playing the new mum card , what sort of person attacks a new mum etc.
If she cant take criticism, she is in the wrong game.
This has all the hallmarks of a clique who will stitch up who is standing and where between themselves.
I’m a believer in the list only strategy , I’m convinced it COULD work , but only if there is a single party attempting it (there wont be ) and an army of activists knocking doors (there wont be).
I know for a fact that at least one of these women is not what she claims to be , her biography is a litany of lies. This is NOT the list party we were hoping for.
@Ian Brotherhood
Ah! The brain the size of a planet, what an arrogant arsehole you appear to be.
By the way name is my initials plus gw for Glasgow, I have used it everywhere since 1999, even on ebay, the guardian (no longer on there). I use it because there is very few people (none) with my name in Scotland, and you can trace my birth certificate, address and almost certainly everything else that is available about me online. The Rev knows my name as it is on the email address, you have no need for it.
Effijy
I’m a troll now am I?
Only Bigots use the T word.
If the shoe fits.
@CamB –
Keep out of this.
ahundredthidiot
Nah, I’ve laid out all the science, ethics and law you really need in order to draw an informed opinion on the situation. It is not my fault if you’ve not taken the opportunity to inform yourself.
Yes you are!
Ian Brotherhood
And just who do you think your talking to?
Ian Brotherhood
I’ve busted my nads to inform the covid debate but it’s obviously not registered with you. What’s that all about?
COVID-19 Economy vs Human Rights: A Misleading Dichotomy
link to hhrjournal.org
@jfngw –
Unless I missed it, you haven’t made the slightest effort to address any of the links and material supplied btl here over the past few weeks.
Please correct me if you have.
Ian Brotherhood: “FWIW, I include myself in the description of us as daft, brainwashed eejits. There’s not a single one of us has perfect knowledge and awareness of everything.”
@jfngw: yeah, he sounds really arrogant.
Many folk will have met IB on marches. “Arrogant” would not be a term any would apply to him, I think.
As for the subject of the thread, I am struggling to understand how a list-only party can split the independence vote, when huge numbers of SNP votes there convert to very little.
Effijy @ 6:29
OK, lets go £10k each on a wings Party then – to get the ball rolling, so to speak
I welcome the new party, I’ll not be voting for any party whose mps think it acceptable to firstly troll their electorate, then block when aforesaid trolling is responded to. I also won’t be voting for biology denying flat earthers who can’t tell the difference between a man and a woman, and try to bring in a blasphemy law to penalise those who can. I think if Wings had started a party, it would have a much greater impact however.
CBB at 6:30
surely you mean you’re, not your??
I honestly don’t know why I bother, as it appear everyone thinks they’re fucking experts in public health.
The Evolution of the Right to Health in the Shadow of COVID-19
link to hhrjournal.org
CBB @ 6:44
Neither do I.
I mean, why you bother……
ahundredthidiot
Hope?
Collette Walker used to fleece the vulnerable and bereaved by claiming to be able to speak to the dead as a ‘spirit medium’
And folk think she is credible?
I’ll never give up on hope. Full text.
Responding to Covid?19: How to Navigate a Public Health Emergency Legally and Ethically
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
jfngw,you would’nt know a compelling argument if it kicked you in the face you’re so fuckinv dim.
Effijy @ 6:22
btw, I listened to the Haw Haw debate on GOOD MORNING BRITAIN, then re-wound it, and watched it back AGAIN, muted.
It was more fun muted, certainly less hysterical and far more telling.
Generally though, I don’t watch the telly or the News (bad for your health – physical and mental).
Collette Walker used to operate as a ‘spirit medium’, fleecing bereaved folk for money by claiming to speak to the dead.
And people think she is credible?
If folk haven’t figured out that I’m trying to inform the dabate, rather than just quack out my arse, then they haven’t been paying attention.
Using public health law to contain the spread of COVID-19
link to magonlinelibrary.com
Sporrans at dawn…
Sad
In the absence of a proper SNP rebuttal unit,this site used to be useful when it exposed false claims made by broadcasters, newspapers and other unionists which we couldn’t elsewhere including the manipulation of google searches.
Now its mainly naval gazing on issues that less than one per cent of the population is interested in. A great pity.
What a strange place the BBC must be.
Boris changes the English position and it is Scotland, Wales and Ireland that is out of step.
Very odd that Boris relaxing the rules means Nicola has to justify why she does not change.
It is for Boris and Westminster to explain why they are breaking the “in it together and out of it together” approach.
Only in the servile mind of a BBC Scotland reporter should Nicola have to explain herself.
What a bunch of Muppets – sorry what an insult to Muppets
@Tito Chief
I posted a fairly light bit of sarcasm about peoples rights to do as they want. He replied with a personal insult plus then preceded to chastise me for not showing him enough respect. that sits in the arrogance area to me. I’ve never met him so I can only judge on a response.
I admit my replies can be a bit abrasive but I prefer something short and direct, the multi page dissertations on here, sometimes longer than the actual blog post, often leave me cold rather than interested.
I was thinking….a list Party….could we spin it to Unionists that to vote for them would harm the SNP?
I have, probably like everyone else, ‘mixed’ whatsapp groups. On one of them I said this new Party was there to take seats from the SNP (I know, I know) and the resident Unionists were delighted to hear this. Much ‘clapping’ and ‘praying’ emojis (or whatever the fuck theyre called) – even though I said they were only targeting the regional list seats. (they really are quite thick when it comes to politics – some of these folks hold down really, really good jobs btw!)
We need to stitch these Unionists up in 2021, the only question is, how? ISP or a Wings Party – remember FPTP works in our favour, if we are smart enough…..
At least in the 70s80s chaps had the decency to shave before applying make up.
@shug
I think that pretty much would have been the coverage from the beginning if we had tried to diverge from London’s ‘excellent’ science. It would have been unrelenting.
I believe we went down the wrong route but I can understand the reluctance, you would need the a bravery that so far has alluded the SNP leadership.
A new Scottish Independence Party could be risky
It could split the independence vote If people don’t stick rigidly to voting for it only with their second vote
If this new party sticks rigidly to asking for second votes
to increase Scottish independence LIST MPs
It will be a good new addition
Here’s hoping they don’t get more ambitious than that because if they do then it will split the independence vote
Infiltrators to the Scottish independence movement in my opinion won’t change the eventual outcome
People are smart enough to vote for the right reasons
SNP will be the leading Scottish Independence Party
I hope thee greens continued to favour Scottish independence
I hope the new LIST Scottish Independence Party succeeds
Well the new party seems to be upsetting all the right people. A good litmus test IMO.
If the new IfSP are perceived as being unwanted and ineffectual, before they have even set up their website detailing their aims and candidates, why all the vitriol launched against them?
They’ve clearly got a few knickers in a twist. (Ooh, knickers , Paul Hutcheon will be along any minute?) 😉
Brian Doonthetoon
Just a rush of blood to the head.
Ian Brotherhood
Sorry if you took that bad Ian, but I’ve been trying to show folk the “art of law”, grounded in social science. We are unlikely to find a better path out of the situation we face.
Tonto Chief- He blow smoke up arse LOLZ
Arguing about each other’s qualification to give an opinion is going nowhere
Surely everyone here is allowed their opinion
Even if it’s one that few agree with or nobody agrees with
Maturity encourages us to listen to all views
Then agree or disagree ….politely …..even if you really really dislike the opinion
@CamB (6.34) –
‘I’ve busted my nads to inform the covid debate but it’s obviously not registered with you. What’s that all about?’
Sorry Cam but you haven’t. You really haven’t. I took you point by point through the Swiss Propaganda Research site without telling you where I was getting the quotes and links and we eventually ground out a paragraph we both agreed on. But you simultaneously issued a series of tweets condemning the same site because they didn’t appear, to you, to be concerned enough about global ethics, or something.
When I did eventually get you to address material which appears to undermine the msm narrative (I can’t remember which specific aspect) you called time-out, saying you weren’t qualified to comment. Upthread you say that I’m not qualified to comment on covid-related stuff because I haven’t the ‘common-sense’.
So, between us, it seems we’re not qualified to comment on very much at all, and yet we both manage to provide links and sources for possible discussion. Do we do that because we understand perfectly what they contain? Or do we do it because we’d like it if other people – i.e. people here, people we know – would have a look at them and tell us what they think? Isn’t it that simple?
You would think so, but it plainly isn’t. It’s a measure of how bonkers the situation has become that people who openly state that they don’t know what the fuck is going on and ask questions about it are being angrily belittled and mocked by people who know just as little, if not less, but daren’t admit that unpleasant truth to themselves.
I don’t mind being wrong, and I certainly don’t mind admitting as much, but I do – very much – mind being spoken to as if I’m an annoyingly over-imaginative child. Mibbe I was wrong to lash out at jfngw earlier because he’s certainly not the only one who’s been doing it lately, but none of us should forget how supporters of independence have been treated over the decades: that fatuous, self-satisfied voice, chortling and tutting as it tells us to mind our place; Denise Mina, on that Radio 4 programme, recalling how, getting closer to indyref1, it was ‘all getting a wee bit silly’. People getting serious about their nation’s future was, heaven forfend, an annoyance for poor Denise…
We don’t know what is going on with this bastarding bug any more than Joe Soap in Hornsey knows what’s happening about Scottish independence. And there’s no shame, for us or Joe, in admitting that.
I’d be surprised if Robert the Bruce and William Wallace would have dreamed of joining a middle ages version of the SNP. Imagine going into battle while your troops trade with the enemy.
Unfortunately for independence seekers the SNP is currently the only party with an infrastructure capable of taking us to the promised land. Gradualist thinking and policies will ensure that isn’t likely to happen in the foreseeable future.
Note to Nicola Sturgeon: gradualism does not mean the same as stagnation.
I keep hoping that Ms Sturgeon, a very capable First Minister, will read s2 of the SNP Constitution and accept her responsibilities as party leader.
The SNP have been incapable of recognising external talent and using it constructively. That needs to change or splinter groups will continue to form. Why wouldn’t they?
Arrogance and complacency didn’t get us independence in 2014 and they won’t get us independence now.
Sinky
So do you think our democracy and legal system are safe from anti-foundational beliefs, just because the electorate aren’t concerned?
@ian brotherhood
In fact I did reply to someone’s links a few days ago, not with links as I have no qualifications in the area to make any educated comments on any scientist. But you will always be able to find someone that disagrees scientifically in disputed areas and the danger of this virus is disputed. There were hundreds of links as links led to other links, I found the few I followed unconvincing, can’t remember why without searching.
You believe the science you want to believe, at the minute I will stick with the caution until it is proven wrong, the alternative could be many more deaths, not a risk I’m willing to take. Just in the same way you are willing to trust someone called Joe or Breastplate (I’m sure that’s their real names) but chastise someone for not using theirs.
BTL is not a good place to be if you have a delicate temperament, I’ve been called a fucking cunt and a wank on here today, you have to take the rough with the smooth BTL.
Yesterday I posted a detailed assessment of the decision by the Scottish Government to delay going into lockdown and discussed the grave consequences of that decision which we are all living with today. link to wingsoverscotland.com
Today I suggested that the decision to delay lockdown was “nuclear” and that it would bring down Sturgeon. I absolutely expect that.
As I understand it, none of those comments have been remarked upon. However; link to bbc.co.uk
Can I simply ask that you stop and think about the seriousness of this and get behind the campaign for truth surrounding that decision and support calls for an inquiry.
If only one person had died as a result of that decision, it would still be extremely serious. But we are talking about thousands of Scottish lives here, lost and impacted terribly, because of a bad decision made at the heart of the Scottish Government which had full knowledge of the Virus and its potential impact.
The BBC Disclosure programme is on BBC tonight at 8.30 PM. You can expect some startling revelations.
@jfngw –
Fair enough. We’re not going to agree so can we just agree to differ?
Sorry if I offended with the remarks about your ‘name’. Believe me, with my own handle, a delicate temperament is something I lost a long time ago.
‘The truth will out’ and all that. Here’s hoping we are all still around to see it – could be a long time coming.
jfngw
mind put an adult nappy on before night night – we wouldn’t want you wetting the bed tonight thinking of COVID19. (God only knows how many times CBB has had to wash his bed sheets – thankfully the weather is holding to get them dried in time for beddy byes)
At no point, none, was this deal for eternity. You can ride the ride like a little wean, greetin intae yer teddy bear, or you can throw a fucking saddle on it.
Ian Brotherhood
If the dozens of scientific and legal texts I’ve linked for folk isn’t informing the debate, then I don’t know what is.
You’re misrepresenting me, as I remember saying that your outline sounded “about right”. That is about as accurate as any of us are able to specify, as none of us have full knowledge and the science is evolving. And so is the bug. So you can’t base decisions purely on science, you need ethics and law to guide your judgment.
Sorry bud, but I’m vastly more qualified than you, in this respect. Dealing with this sort of situation is what my professional training was geared toward, so I don’t think it reasonable to consider our judgements of equally the same weight. Not unless you doubt the expert opinion I have suggest as reading material, and have other, well sourced, evidence to offer.
As the SNP went from party of protest to party of government and de-facto establishment of Scotland, it was inevitable the the ‘rolling stone’ would gather moss. However, it looks like it has ground to a halt and turned into New-Labour where it pitches itself so far in all points of all parts of the political spectrum to gain enough support to keep in power because it’s core support has no were else to go.
It makes sense not to put all your eggs in one basket. As long as it doesn’t split the independence vote, a credible alternative political party is the way to go.
@CamB –
Wow.
@Peter A Bell 3:02pm
“ to fatally undermine the SNP at this time REGARDLESS OF ANY FAULTS OR FAILURES is tantamount to a betrayal of Scotland of the same order as that which was perpetrated in 1707”.
Jesus Christ, get a grip. ?
It’s times like this I’m glad you’ve blocked me on Twitter.
@ahundrethidiot
You’re confused I’m not worried about myself but my children and grandchildren. I’m well past the age of worry, I’ve survived cancer, I’ve had tubes and cameras inserted in every orifice (except my ears) in the last few years. So your mild mocking would be funny but is in fact childish.
Give me freedom or give me death, is that your motto.
CBB @ 7:46
can you hear yourself?
seriously man – get real or get gone
ahundredthidiot
When your finished quacking. Full text. 😉
Global Health Justice and Governance
link to researchgate.net
Dog biscuit says: 11 May, 2020 at 7:10 pm
They didn’t in the sixties.
Ian Brotherhood
Wow what? Do you really think our perspectives are the same?
The Quest for Global Justice in Health: A Review of
Global Health Law by Lawrence 0. Gostin
link to digitalcommons.law.yale.edu
I find the tweet about asking where the funding for this new political party comes from.
There has been a lot of conspiracy theories that the SNP is being infiltrated by the British state and this GRA nonsense is one of them.
With having no direct experience of the inner workings of the SNP, that is a plausible explanation. Another plausible one is that political parties throughout the world receive donations from charitable organisations, NGO’s and other sources. These sources have no interest in whether independence succeeds or not, only if they gain influence for the cause they are promoting on the governing political party.
These individuals may want to question some of the the funding the SNP gets.
jfngw
yet here you are, determined to saddle your children and grandchildren with huge debt and a massive depression (probably 20 years worth of REAL austerity – not the namby pamby crap of the last decade) to satisfy your fears.
I am sure they will thank you.
I noticed that two of the pictured tweeter has the wife beater shirts on. I wonder if that posing they do in them influences their opinion of woman?
“Tonto Chief- He blow smoke up arse LOLZ.” Liked it, Arthur C 🙂
@ Tito Chief (from jfngw):”I admit my replies can be a bit abrasive but I prefer something short and direct, the multi page dissertations on here, sometimes longer than the actual blog post, often leave me cold rather than interested.”
In which case, I think you should address your comments to others, not to Ian B, who is normally to the point.
@CBB: Cameron, we’ve met and chatted and you are an intelligent guy, with interesting conversation. You don’t need your abstarcts etc to make your points.You often expose your massive monographs all over the place on here for us to muse upon but seem singularly reluctant to consider alternative views. From memory, cirsium, Ian B and others have directed you to other sites for information, mainly the Swiss Propaganda Research compendium, and yet I doubt you have even read some of the papers there.
None of us can be sure about Covid, because scientists seem to be at odds and many are compromised by governments hiding behind them, but I remain very suspicious of governments like ours who will use any excuse to increase monitoring and reduce our free speech at the same time by taking down pesky Twitter accounts and You Tube videos which run counter to the conventional Covid narrative.
Cammy
You wrote “If folk haven’t figured out that I’m trying to inform the dabate, rather than just quack out my arse, then they haven’t been paying attention.“
You probably haven’t noticed Cammy, but one by one, you are losing the support and confidence of your fellow contributors. You are incapable of demonstrating empathy, you are a bigot and, as demonstrated in the quote above, you display a permanent degree of arrogance that even the most generous person finds intolerable.
You may, of course, dismiss my comment as coming from “Tory Scum” (because of your innate bigotry) and therefore of no consequence. But you might like to back through recent threads, dispassionately, assess the responses you are getting … and rethink your overall approach.
I can do this all day.
Do not violate the International Health Regulations during the COVID-19 outbreak
link to thelancet.com
Sensibledave
No, you’re simply reading too much into an online personality. Have I hurt your feelings? As if I care, I lack empathy.
jfngw
In 2009 I said to friends, (who consequently mocked me) that interest rates would not go above 1% for the next ten years.
I wanted to say 25 years. Save to say, I am now pretty well off and they aren’t, but at least they got a good laugh at me and my idiot nonsense.
Now, we have COVID.
I could give my financial prediction for the short/medium term and the long term, but if I did, you really would wet the bed tonight.
CBB @ 8:12
I don’t doubt you can do this all day.
All Talk and no Listen.
Cammy 8.14
… no Cammy, once again you totally misread the situation. I am totally enjoying your meteoric demise!
Tinto Chiel
I’m trained to deal with sort of situation, but I would have hoped that might have been apparent. I’m very rust though and lack social capital. So according to my training, I’m linking folk directly to the science and law. So they can form their own informed opinions.
Covid-19: research and knowledge exchange from Edinburgh Law School
link to law.ed.ac.uk
@Tinto Chief
Don’t understand that reply, as that comment was nothing to do with IB but an reference purely to own my sometimes abrasive replies and why they were short. I’m pretty sure IB can stand up for himself and doesn’t need others to defend his position, we disagree, we have agreed on that position.
CBB,
That comment to Ian Brotherhood (and to the rest of us) sounded incredibly condescending.
I hope that wasn’t the intention.
@ahundredthidiot
Sorry, not biting.
i too will be be happy to vote for them on the basis of the announced policies since they are game changers for me with the SNP and Greens. If they are on the List it will mean I won’t have to spoil my ballot paper.
Since I discovered that messages on spoiled ballots are read to the candidates I would be more likely to spoil my ballot with ‘None of the Above. Yes to Indy, No to GRA’.
Anyone else is welcome to pinch that from me. I still have seen no contrition from my SNP MSP over helping kill Margo’s Assisted Dying Bill despite it being backed in polls by a solid majority of the people of Scotland. So at least in the constituency that message may be on my ballot paper with IfSP party on the List.
I group of dedicated gender critical MSP’s hopefully with lots of women will be asset to the parliament and make the SNP and Greens feel like they need to think again.
BTW I doubt my MSP will miss my vote, she didn’t last time. And before anyone starts I’m entitled to exercise my conscience as well.
@jfngw and CBB: since my words clearly don’t seem to be getting through, I’ll give up for tonight.
My name may be silly but I try to get other folks’ name right, jfngw. At least Arthur C was having a laugh.
What a lot of weather we’ve been having lately 🙂 .
Breastplate
I don’t think I’m better than anyone, but I have a relevant professional training accredited by the Royal Town Planning Institute. I’d have hoped that might have counted for something. I’m not simply stroking my ego.
Sociology and the social sciences in the COVID-19 crisis
link to transformingsociety.co.uk
jfngw
I forgot to add – I am glad you beat cancer.
CBB @8:35
‘I don’t think I’m better than anyone…..(insert vague qualifications for being wise/smart/intelligent)….I would hope that counts for something’
I am sorry that your ego needs stroked Cammy, but the real secret is in knowing the pointlessness of ego itself….therein lies true wisdom.
Ego, is utterly pointless…..Useless even.
@Muscleguy
I would happily have spoilt my ballot paper for WM election with independence written across it. I believe it is too dangerous to let the London parties have control of Holyrood, my feelings they will introduce legislation that would make independence impossible outside of using violence.
On the assisted dying, I think most people support it in principle but are still worried about the safeguards to protect vulnerable people. It’s a difficult area and I can understand those that fear they pass legislation that ends up being misused. It’s a one of those lose-lose situations for those dying in agony and politicians frightened of being held culpable.
PacMan 8.06pm.(conspiracy theories that the snp have been infiltrated by the british state). Lol. Oh rest assured my friend thats there’s nothing conspiratorial about it. You can do as the ostrich does.
Stroking it?
There’s a fire risk with that much friction!
Cue a barrage of psycho-babble.
What sorry town had the privilege?
Ahundredtheidiot.8.18pm. Why? Is your money in an offshore account??.
CBB,
I don’t at all discount that you are learned.
I think it’s great that people are knowledgeable, schooling is great for enhancing knowledge, it unfortunately cannot enhance intelligence, the same way no schooling will not diminish intelligence.
Knowledge can be perceived as intelligence or even camouflage stupidity.
Thinking your right and being right are two different things.
Breastplate
I’ve only been supporting the international rule of law and human rights. If you think that wrong than perhaps I’m speaking to the wrong folk.
defo
Go fuck yourself. Is that psycho enough?
@Tinto Chiel
Sorry about the name, it’s a combination of my ropey eyesight (my glasses are great for reading but a bit rubbish for computer use) and my keyboard not always registering the key presses (definitely the keyboard and not me, I maintain this strongly).
Mike D
No, it’s not off-shore, I wouldn’t do that. Greed is not in my make up, financial prudence most certainly is though.
A little piece of my soul died recently investing in the stock market during COVID, but if my siblings/nieces/nephews are going to face financial hardship after this (and they will), the least I can do is help them out – and I can only do that by investing when blood is running in the streets. Maybe I will be lucky enough to pay off some or all of their mortgages.
Do you have a paper on that fruitloop, or should I improvise?
PLEASE APPOINT MODERATOR’S STU
@CameronB Brodie 9:00pm
Is that from the mission statement of the Royal Town Planning Institute?
defo
When have you ever contributed anything other than in insight into your ego?
From impossible to inevitable: corporate justice in times of COVID-19
The need for supply chain due diligence and conditions on corporate bailouts
link to corporatejustice.org
Ron Maclean
I’m not a member so I’m a free agent. 🙂
Sorry for the loss of the rag but I have really been digging deep, and its just a bit deflating that it doesn’t appear to have made the slightest difference. Sigh.
Jfngw 8.47pm. They can introduce legislation to make independence impossible. And politicians might be frightened of being held culpable, but they (politicians)would certainly be frightened/terrified of leaving the house.
Jesus, CBB, for the love of God and Jehovah, can you please start posting without links!!
Just once….try it….go on….be your own man…..do it…
…do it…
@ahundrethidiot
I was probably overstating, you never really beat it, you just defer the fateful day. It will probably get me in the end, but I’ve actually had a good life, never rich but never destitute.
Ahundredtheidiot. Well fair play to you. But if you can only invest when blood is running in the streets. Then gun running comes to mind.
@jfngw: you caught me brushing the old toothy pegs.
No sweat re my daft handle: we’re all getting older, and me older than most. Forget it.
ahundredthidiot
You appear to be on Trump’s wavelength, so why would I care what you think about me.
jfngw
then Lang may yer lum reek
Mike d. Remember as my Irish friends used to tell me ,your enemies will only have to be lucky once. But they will have to be lucky the rest of their lives.
Mike D
I was still selective in my portfolio……and hopefully avoided any gun running……tho cant be sure…..it is true that those demons can never truly be avoided, hence the loss of Soul…..
@CameronB Brodie
Take it easy, post without the links and be ignored like most of us.
Ron Maclean 😉
More bullshit plucked from your arse fruits.
How many hundred WoS posts have descended into the C Bullshit B show?
Cue claims for different treatment for people with ‘special ‘ needs.
Keep it up fruits, it’s fun.
I’ve not played this game much since pre 2014 at the hootsmon/evening news.
What became of Grahamski?
CBB
I am a (kinda) fan of Noam Chomsky, who is a terrible liberal!, but he has taught me a lot.
for example, I always had LBJ down for Vietnam, but it was actually JFK. Obama was probably the worst ever US president, despite the colour of his skin, religion, sexuality, so yes, i am ok with Trump. he walked into N Korea and shook hands, avoided war with both Russia and Syria. he is currently avoiding war with Iran and potentially China and taking on the deep state within the US by clearing out the agencies (not an easy task).
The Flynn affair could actually result in Obama facing charges, and let’s not get into the Clintons who could actually be facing real jail time like their buddy Epstein.
You have a lot to learn you paddawan, sleep well tonight
Events and circumstances that help form my views:
Through 2019 we had several impressive AUOB marches. A few notable SNP MPs took part. The SNP hierarchy made no attempt to encourage and engage as a means to pressurise Westminster.
The Alphabet women, are still in the SNP and payroll (?).Women who conspired and were prepared to send a 65 year old man to prison. A man who had devoted his life to the SNP and independence. Presumably the SNP hierarchy considers these women fit and proper persons to be engaged on SNP government business.The Westminster appointed person guiding the actions against him, quoted as saying ” battle lost war goes on” is still in post.
The SNP have turned their back: on an woman SNP member based on solely on rumours of her property dealings; on a married MSP who had I understand (?) goofed on a predictive text message to a woman associate: on a recently elected MP due to an age old text message.
Absolutely nobody I’ve spoken with supports the SNP proposed GRA musings.
Last week we learned of the membership of the Scottish Affairs committee at Westminster. I expected the SNP MPs to refuse to take participate.
And finally, wouldn’t it be logical for the SNP to actively, privately, encourage the formation of an Independence List Only party?
I posted this comment on Peter Bell’s website in response to his post that he reposted above Sorry for length
——————————–
I have commented on your posts and ASKED and PLEADED with the SNP membership to take back control of the party , as a non member but a voter for the SNP I have ONLY 1 route to show my disgust , anger and feeling of being betrayed by a party that’s raison detre is supposedly independence and that is to NOT vote for them
I have stated on here and on other blogs that the SNP hierarchy are basically BLACKMAILING independence supporters , they and their members ridiculing non member voters by threatening that if you don’t vote SNP and NS you will get a yoonionist party in government and indy is gone , that is self explanatory
You and other SNP members want to berate and ridicule people who are so disgusted by the clusterfuck that is the current situation that they are attempting to divert around it and show their determination to gain our independence , yet that honest determination has to be mocked and denigrated because it might ( may , possibly ) affect the SNP vote
I ask you with respect Mr Bell WTAF are the membership of the SNP doing to rectify the clusterfuck , the absence of ANY ROUTE to independence , the capitulation and subservience of our sovereignty by the FM , the lack of ANY legal challenge to the ICJ , the refusal to be taken out of the EU against our expressed wishes , the reviled and abhorred GRA and HATE LAWS and so on and so on
I have read of MANY members writing and complaining to the hierarchy and to NS herself but still the clusterfuck goes on , amplified by Wishart , Nicolson , Smith and others blocking members and ignoring them on twatter
So quite honestly unless and until the MEMBERSHIP take back control of the SNP party and address the clusterfuck people will resort to desperate measures , DON’T BLAME THE VOTERS FOR WANTING INDEPENDENCE BLAME THE SNP AND NS FOR NOT GIVING US THE CHANCE TO GET IT
If you want to win independence by the British electoral system,
Here’s how you do it:
Get a pro-indy majority in the Westminster Commons and House of Lords and pro-indy UK head of state.
————————————————————————-
Scotland will NEVER become independent unless Scotland declares it is no longer part of the United Kingdom, so not bound by UK parliamentary sovereignty. eg Legal denunciation of the Treaty of Union.
The prospects of that happening with the current crop of MPs and MSPs in the SNP are Greens are ZERO.
The chances of that happening with a majority of the current SNP MPs and MSPs, even with support from Wings or ISP List MSPs, are also zero.
Boris yesterday talked about getting children back to primary school.
Should the younger children not be one of the last groups to go back since they will have less hygiene discipline than the older years and be an even greater infection vector (and out-of-sync with other counties older starting ages).
Back to square one with unnecessary deaths.
defo
Nah, I’ll call it as it is. You simply appear to be rather narrow minded and to think quite highly of yourself. Prove me wrong.
So what efforts are being made to develop military NBCD gear for civilian use and distribute that PPE with instructions, training and testing, the development and stockpiling of which should have been done well over a decade ago?
Track and trace, another tool, but not one that physically gives power to people to protect themselves. Quality PPE is not 100% effective, but a bunch better than a simple cloth covering the face.
Where in the great scheme of things is a coordinated and permanent nation-scale manufacturing plan. Or are we to wait years until a vaccine is developed or everyone gets infected through inevitible further waves after lockdown exhaustion.
Population-level PPE distribution is cruicial, because realistically its only a matter of time before an extinction-grade infection comes our way. If Westminster wont do it, then Holyrood MUST. For goodness sake leaders, WAKE UP!
BBC Scotland having in depth revue of Scotgov response to the virus. Their conclusion is if we had locked down earlier then we could have saved 2000 lives. No such review of Westminster yet.
Of course they miss out all the things Scottish Gov couldn’t do, no furlough payments to companies as they don’t have the power or money, no ability to control the borders, no ability to control air traffic, no idea what scientific advice they were given.
Can you imagine the MSM shit storm if they had diverged from WM and ignored the scientific advice.
The Scotgov response was crap (scientific term) in my opinion but I don’t hold them totally responsible. That I lay at the 2014 No voters.
twathater says:
11 May, 2020 at 9:32 pm
I posted this comment on Peter Bell’s website in response to his post that he reposted above Sorry for length
——————————–
I commented on your post on Peters blog, you said exactly how I feel only more eloquently than I can, well said
Colin @ 9:34
OK, lets say you’re right (although I favour an in excess of 50/50 in 2021 would swing it under international law), say you, what solution do you propose Sir?!
I am all ears and eyes and full a muscle!
@bittie45
Yes, getting 5/6 year olds to socially distance and wear masks doesn’t look like a sound plan to me. They want to chase each other and run about.
Ahundredtheidiot 9.20pm fair play at least your honest. Although if you needed to unload some armalites..?.
jfngw says:
11 May, 2020 at 9:40 pm
BBC Scotland having in depth revue of Scotgov response to the virus. Their conclusion is if we had locked down earlier then we could have saved 2000 lives. No such review of Westminster yet.
ISTR that when Sturgeon announced a week or so before the actual lockdown she was thinking of imposing a lockdown, when Johnson was adamant there would be no lockdown, the Yoon MSM, including BBC Scotland went ape and demanded that she wait until the Yoon government said it was time to lockdown.
Ps. For the benefit of the court m’lud I meant araldites. Lol
Goodness. What a fractious night it’s been on here. I’ve just watched the last two episodes of Outlander. Traumatic though it was, the story had a certain coherence, which the disputes on here lack. Why is everone arguing about a virus? Do some people dispute that it exists? Or that it is life threatening?
Has anyone been hurt?
Unless you’re a virologist or an expert in infectious diseases your opinion is just as important as everyone else’s i.e. not very. Stay at home, until you know the infectious rate of Covid -19 and the death rate. If you think you do know that, then tell us.
Admiral. All my Tory neighbours down here in englandshire are screaming nicola was right.although it was actually ‘sturgeon was right they said. But you know what I mean. ‘Those damned SCOTCH are getting above themselves. Impudence swine trying to put their betters in their place what!
@Mike d
Yeh, you stick to that if you can, you sound like you’ve been hardened or is it cured?
@capella
I think the disagreements are about staying at home, some disagree.
Capella
Maybe you should stick to soaps and dramas….of late….disappointing.
ahundredthidiot
1. Only vote for or give any support to those that refuse to swear allegiance / that renounce allegiance to the UK’s head of state and that are seeking a mandate to declare the Union dissolved.
Or as Breeks would put it: only support those that will assert Scottish constitutional sovereignty – the common sovereignty of the people of Scotland.
2. Only give time, money and support to those described above.
That means no support for the current SNP and Greens. No support to those who want to become colonial parliament List MSPs. That’s just playing British party politics.
3. Promote Scottish sovereignty. Promote legal denunciation of the Union. Promote the establishment of a Scottish parliament exercising sovereignty in service of the sovereign people of Scotland.
Jfngw. No, beyond salvation. Lol.
Well said Twathater, and thanks for getting us back on track.
Individual members and constituency groups cannot change the direction of the SNP now. It needs a clear out at the top. As Capella said, Colette Walker stood against the awful Rhiannon Spear for Women’s Officer and narrowly lost. so she’s tried to change things from within.
I find it ironic that Peter Bell, who’s attacked the SNP for years (rightly) for its lack of commitment to indy, is now attacking list party supporters for allegedly abandoning the cause.
A huge vote for the SNP would only be taken by the leadership as a mandate (yes, seriously this time!) for the GRA madness and the odious Hate Crimes bill.
They need a rocket up them, and the sooner the better.
bittie45
You do realise that in the UK there have only been 2 deaths in the under 10 age group and zero in Scotland. The 2 had underlying conditions.
Children are virtually immune
In fact under 45’s are very unlikely to get a fatal dose.
Don’t know what your fear is?
While all the arguing is going on here on other subjects , can I just say that Scotland will not be getting Independence anytime soon as any other women that I know will not be voting for the Snp or the Greens in 2021 while all these young ones listed above and more are pushing their policies onto the parties .
As long as they want to push Gra or the new hate crime bill through Holyrood you can forget Women voting for them .
We would rather spoil our ballot papers than vote for them .
Donda at 3.38 says “I know very senior people in SNP have floated the idea of an independence list party. Best ignore Pete Wishart.”
Well, that is something encouraging to sleep on. Fingers crossed that something positive comes out of it and quickly.
Colin A @ 10:13
with respect, and while I agree with the sentiment, that will not secure Scotlands Independence.
What we need to do is get inside the Greens and the Labour Party, at least to safeguard a half dozen votes. Secondly, we need a list Party that will ensure we dominate Holyrood.
lastly…and this is the hardest part…we need to reform the SNP from within (for they are the greatest enemy of Scotlands fight for independence and converse our only real hope within our lifetimes – so we must turn the tide)
We all might need to get out hands dirty.
I am a sheep.
I was saying to a mate of mine recently….I think that dog (who really doesn’t like us)…and that fella (who we really all like and trust)….are probably working together – against us.
I am a Conspiracy Theorist.
Pete, Hi.
Not saying that they aren’t immune (although even that is not certain – its early days yet – in 10 years we MIGHT be more certain). However please provide a link to research which proves that they don’t pass on the infection.
Also, allowing the infection to widely spread will cause a high enough percentage of the vulnerable to become ill that it overloads the NHS, as has already very nearly been demonstrated by an incompetent (at best) administration. If this case if you, I or anyone else requires life-saving treatment, what happens then?
Let’s face the reality, as much as its painful, Scotland is slowly being assimilated into greater England. Its already too late for Wales. We will be out populated/bred out by the influx from (I wont say the E word) our southern neighbours.in around the next 10 yrs.at the rate of southern emigration to Scotland. The more enlightened among you know where I’m coming from. Ps. You’ll never convert enough of the incomers, though good luck with that. I had always hoped I would see indy in my lifetime as did my 80 plus year old mum who passed away in April who was a lifelong SNP voter.So from me its goodnight Scotland.
The world needs a vaccine against covid 19. SCOTLAND needs a vaccine against unionism.
just heard there will be an announcement tomorrow abut furlough payments stopping.
Blue touch paper springs to mind
Twathater @ 9.32
Well said Twathater,couldn’t agree more.
If this party is to be successful it will be because the Yes movement want it to be.
That’s what’s on the table here,we’ve marched in our thousands,we’ve voted time and again,we’ve networked,we’ve set media outlets up and supported them,we’ve used every communication route available to the SNP…..and all across the movement we’ve wanted clear decisive action towards Indy.
Well…this is what’s left,to get people of the movement and from the movement to form a party that will take our position right into Holyrood.
We wanted action ever since the Brexit vote…
Well… here it is ….either the Yes movement will get behind it fund it and vote it into Holyrood or it won’t…..there is now a party available to them and that’s a means we didn’t have before….
It’s not polished and certainly not perfect..just like our marches and our media..but it’s there if we want it..and if we want it…it can get the job done.
I did say months ago they’ll be no free money. Christ i’ve not even claimed yet,can’t do it till Thursday. It will be pittance if i do get it and not convinced it will hit my bank account in couple of weeks anyhow.
No surprises there then. As long all the doe has went to big businesses and farmer landowners ,who cares about us minions .
Unionism brought death and destruction to northern Ireland. Scotland, are you prepared to do the same??.
Sarah @ 10.25
Something else encouraging to ponder 🙂
Colette Walker has,as has been pointed out,stood as a candidate for SNP women’s officer and lost only narrowly.
Which means that a lot of SNP members voted for her and her stance on the GRA.
I don’t think it will be much of a leap in the privacy of the voting booth for them to vote for her again,especially the members who feel strongly against the party’s stance on the GRA and those who also saw the tactics used during that campaign.
Scotland. throw away the chains of unionism,you can be the negro slave who has escaped their, masta!
@Pete
Children are not immune, they just have little symptoms. They are in effect carriers that you are not aware of because of these lack of symptoms.
Ps , unless your team is still in debt to HMRC. Pmsl