The National FAQ
Back in the summer we sang the praises of one of Scotland’s tiny semi-handful of pro-independence print organs, the splendid iScot. So it seems only fair that we should offer the same courtesy to the other one we mentioned at the time, The National. It’s three years old today – how the time’s flown – and its editor Callum Baird wants your support. Over to him.
The National is three years old today. Most of the pundits in Scotland’s Unionist media said we wouldn’t last till Christmas. We’ve proven them wrong – so far. But how long that continues is now up to you.
Over the past 12 months, we’ve been on the road with our National Roadshow, bringing the newspaper and our team to towns and villages across Scotland, hosting events and meeting Yes groups. We’ve spoken to thousands of our readers. And we’ve realised that many people in the independence movement share the same concerns about The National and how it’s run. So we thought we would try to address the most common questions here.
You are published by Newsquest … why should we give them our money?
The truth is that it would be incredibly difficult to launch a successful daily independent newspaper today without the backing of a large publisher. The fact that we are part of a big media company allows us to benefit from shared resources, like a printing plant, photographers, a circulation department, an advertising sales team – all of which an independent newspaper would have to pay a premium to use.
In reality, Newsquest doesn’t have a political view. It doesn’t back independence, or the Union. Otherwise, it would never have allowed the Sunday Herald to come out for Yes, or decided to launch The National. Not once, in three years of the paper, has anybody ever told us what we can and cannot publish in The National. The owners of certain other newspaper companies in the UK are not quite so hands-off.
But they could pull the plug at any minute?
Well, yes. But they won’t, as long as we’re financially viable. The only time Newsquest will ever get involved in The National is if enough people aren’t supporting the paper. So long as our readers keep buying us every morning, we’ll be there.
Aren’t you part of the same company as The Herald?
Yes, we are – along with 20-odd local newspapers and several magazines like the Scottish Farmer. But we run a completely separate operation. We have access to the same photographers, and we use the same sports writers. The other papers have no influence over us, and we’ve got no influence over them.
But is our money going towards The Herald?
No, we’re in a completely separate financial line. Decisions are made for each title based on the performance of each newspaper, and The Herald will sink or swim based on its own performance. As will the Greenock Telegraph, the Evening Times, the East Lothian Courier, or any of the other Scottish newspapers in our company.
I can’t get hold of a copy. What’s wrong with your distribution?
We know we have a major problem here, and there are several factors which contribute to it.
First, The National – unlike most other papers – is a pan-Scottish title that doesn’t have a natural geographic base (for example, like The Herald has in Glasgow or the Scotsman in Edinburgh). We’ve got to be in all 4500-odd shops, which means we need to spread ourselves thinly to make sure there are enough copies in every outlet.
Second, the newspaper is often either hidden or tucked away. That’s partly because we’re the new kid on the block and are shunted to the back or put on the bottom shelf away from the more established papers.
Third, there is no doubt – this is the single biggest complaint we hear – that we are also being deliberately hidden behind the Unionist papers. It might be members of the public who come in and stick them under the Daily Mails or the Express. Unfortunately, without us checking every shop every day, there’s not a lot we can do about it. (And thanks to all of you out there who I know fight back to make sure we get a decent selling spot). Quite why Unionists are threatened by ONE daily newspaper when they’ve got all the rest of them, we don’t know.
How does the distribution system work?
If a shop sells out one day, it is then allocated extra copies on that day the following week. If there are a large number of copies left unsold, the shop’s allocation is cut. It is an automated system (it would be impossible to manually control the number of copies going into to 4500 shops on a daily basis).
One major problem is that the number of copies we sell is very volatile. For example, in one shop on any given week we might sell:
Monday: 6 copies
Tuesday: 3 copies
Wednesday: 13 copies
Thursday: 1 copy
Friday: 8 copies
In order to make sure we definitely have enough copies available, we’d need to have at least 14 (the maximum we’re likely to sell plus one) in there each day. Over the course of those five days, we’ll have given the shop 70 copies, sold 34 and wasted 39. That doesn’t make economic sense, so we need to make tough decisions based on average sales, rather than the absolute maximum. This can lead to the newspaper occasionally being unavailable.
How are sales anyway?
We had a brilliant first six months to the year – our circulation was up on the previous 12 months, which is pretty much unheard of in newspapers. But since the General Election result – and the perception, at least, of it being a setback for independence – our sales have taken a huge hit.
The brutal truth is that we have lost close to a fifth of our print readers since a high point in June. We have a good solid number of digital subscriptions which is increasing (nearly 5000), but our readers need to be clear that the printed newspaper will ONLY exist as long as people keep buying us, and buying us regularly. There have been occasions this summer when we’ve lost an average of 300 readers from one week to the next.
So what can we do about it?
The best thing you can do is put in an order with your newsagent’s and make sure you get a copy of the paper EVERY day. We’re hoping to introduce a subscription soon for the printed edition, but until then we need our readership to make sure they pick up a National as a matter of routine. And to make sure that other people in their local Yes groups and party branches, who might not be regular readers, know how important it is to keep The National going.
But isn’t The National just preaching to the converted?
It’s true that our readership is probably mostly made up of Yes voters. But a newspaper can reach people in other ways – for example, when our stories are followed up by other news outlets. Half a million people visit our website every month. Our front pages are seen by hundreds of thousands of people online, on social media and in shops, and articles from The National appear in the timelines of around a million people on Facebook every week.
We also support a community of pro-independence writers and columnists by paying them to contribute to The National. Paul Kavanagh (aka Wee Ginger Dug) says that it’s his income from writing his columns in the paper that allows him to be able to blog full-time and tour Scotland visiting Yes groups.
Why isn’t there more advertising?
This is another major problem for us. Businesses say they are spooked by the independence thing, because they think The National is too political to be associated with. It’s fine, of course, to advertise in the Unionist newspapers. Funny that. Yet we have a readership that you can’t reach in any other newspaper. We need pro-independence businesses to help us buck the trend. Get in touch!
You don’t call out the media/BBC enough!
Of course, we will hold them to account when we need to. And there are plenty of people in the independence movement doing that already – The National is an alternative to the Unionist media, not a watchdog.
I really don’t like those front pages you do.
The front page gets us noticed and gets people talking about us. Those that are a bit more ‘out there’ and are more strident are inevitably shared more online and then sell more copies. Of course, we’ve made a few mistakes over the past 900-ish editions – you can’t get it right all of the time. But we’re learning.
I bought The National when it started but stopped.
Try it again. We’ve changed a lot since the launch. Don’t forget that there were only four weeks between the idea first being pitched and the newspaper arriving in shops!
I don’t like that Cat Boyd/Michael Fry/whoever writes for you.
We’ve got around 22 regular columnists and two cartoonists. You’re not going to like all of them. In fact, if you did like all of them, we wouldn’t be doing our job properly. And besides, it’s healthy to disagree with writers. Some of the newspaper columns we enjoy reading the most are the ones which make us really angry.
I still don’t like you…
Then we’re probably never going to win you over. But wouldn’t you agree that it’s better to have at least one pro-independence newspaper than none at all? If the Yes movement doesn’t get behind us, then we’re right back where we started – with ALL of Scotland’s mainstream media against us.
The National is put together by a small team of around 10 to 12 people every day. We all believe passionately in independence for Scotland, and although another referendum isn’t going to happen in the next few month, it is coming soon. We need you to make sure we’re around to report on the campaign. And to be in the newsstands on the day Scotland votes for independence.
My letter went into the first issue. Happy birthday The National and ME! 😀
Hud oan, hud oan,
“But is our money going towards The Herald? No, we’re in a completely separate financial line. Decisions are made for each title based on the performance of each newspaper, and The Herald will sink or swim based on its own performance.”
Straight fae the horses mooth wi Stu’s blessing or Rocks ‘Jackie Baillie’
Tough one I know. 😉
We’ve got around 22 regular columnists and two cartoonists.
Why don’t you have a column from a certain S. Campbell, Wings over Scotland blogger!?
I’d buy that:D
If anyone from the National is reading this I would drop the line ‘The Newspaper that supports an Independent Scotland’
Not sure that floating voters or neutral voters or even No voters are going to buy it with that on the front page.
I have never seen any unionist papers state their political stance on the front page, and I am sure if the Daily Record was to have, ‘The paper that supports the Union’ on it, their sale would drop even faster.
“If anyone from the National is reading this I would drop the line ‘The Newspaper that supports an Independent Scotland’
Not sure that floating voters or neutral voters or even No voters are going to buy it with that on the front page.”
Agree with this, actually.
One_Scot,
I agree with you. The strapline puts off the very readers the paper is reaching out to.
Paul Kavanagh and Stu both endorse the paper – that’s good enough for me, happy third birthday.
I contribute by purchasing the digital version by a single annual payment-it is a great deal and I still have some whisky to prove that 🙂
Anyone who falls for the line that it is all a unionist plot is naïve in the extreme, as they might be unfortunate to have confirmed by the glee of unionists should the National cease to publish.
I suggest that one week out of the year, they push a ‘free week’ to get a few people hooked.
The stable partner relationship with the Herald really makes me hesitate. I’ve bought the National a few times over the years but every time the Herald comes out with reprehensible nonsense, I am reminded where the National hails from.
Forget about Unionist or Indie slants, the Herald constantly fails hold LabConLib politico’s to account, every time it lets Ruth, Kez, the insignificant bloke away with out and out lies, it taints the National brand.
I bought an premium annual digital subscription this morning. Living in London means I can’t get a hard copy every day but hopefully my subscription cash helps keep them in business.
And the iScot monthly magazine is superb. If you don’t subscribe already I would thoroughly recommend it.
I like The National and buy it from time to time. I want to support it and am planning on subscribing, but…
Bought it Wednesday and was disappointed with the tabloid type headline “Scottish Water defends use of WITCHCRAFT to detect leaks”
I would expect this type of journalism in grubby rags like the DR or the SDM but not a serious broadsheet. Callum Baird says the front page should be “out there” to be noticed. If this is the lengths that they need to go to be noticed then they’re chasing the wrong readers imo.
I sent email to Callum to point out why I think this headline is a problem. Still waiting on reply…
*pops head above parapet*
I’ll admit to being someone who buys the National every day, one of the reasons I never appear on here, Munguins, Twitter etc much before 2 p.m. usually.
I’m currently in a wee quandry though …
do I continue to buy the paper version of the newspaper OR do I go for the on line subscription with its nice wee “offer”?
decisions … decisions.
I cannae handle decision making today … maybe tomorrow perhaps. In the meantime I’ll continue to buy the National. 😀
A right riveting read.
A long time coming and it hasn’t disappointed. Oh and yes, I agree with the comments above. The banner really doesn’t need the whole supports independence text. As and when it needs said, then personally I’d leave it to editorial comment. The statement’s been made I reckon. 🙂
Yep, agreed regarding the banner, we know what the National is, everyone in Scotland does so there is no need to have it under the title anymore. `Not one anther newspaper in Scotland declares ‘we support the union’ but we all know their political bias without the need of a banner declaring this?
I know you must be reading these comments so please do take note of this…we are all supporters of independence too…the reach has to extend beyond us…drop the banner and business advertising may well be improved too?
‘other’ obvs
That Slab leadership election…
link to blogs.lse.ac.uk
I was scunnered by the whole pushing of RISE in The National. Sure, democracy is good and we need different voices. I get that. But, imo, it was naive and to the ultimate detriment of the only political Party in Scotland that has a realistic plan and hope of delivering an Indy Scotland. I stopped buying after that.
However, having read the FAQs above, I will reconsider my position. I will say though – if you (The National) really DOES support Scotland’s Indy, please do not support actions that will take votes away from the only party that has a realistic chance of delivering it to us. I’m not saying you must support the SNP, I am saying you can support the ideals of Indy without backing ANY political party, including RISE.
BTW – I endorse the person above who suggested giving the Rev a column. That would really put the cat among the pigeons and I would defo then take a full subscription. Not because I’m a sycophant but because I admire writers and thinkers who call a spade a spade and who don’t take prisoners. The print and broadcast media have tried to silence him for too long – and it hasn’t worked. Time The Natioal gave him an even bigger voice.
“We’ve got around 22 regular columnists and two cartoonists.”
But you don’t give the author of what is by far the most read pro-indy blog a column.
In the interests of balance, offer Rev Stu a column!
A convincing case…I’ll keep buying, no question.
I would like to see the National delivered to every household in Scotland as a free weekly newspaper, people from all sides will read it if free, surely this could be funded by the Yes movement and delivered by local yes groups, I’d happily donate for this, in the meantime I will continue to buy a copy daily, and I also would like to see a column from Wings in there
I buy a printed copy of The National faithfully, but I have a problem with constantly being asked to take out a digital subscription – either on the pages of the paper, or at events where National sales people are present.
If I take a digital subscription, I won’t buy the printed copy. So, if too many people do that, there will be no printed copies at all, and the National will become online only. While I recognise that the digital income is more stable and less costly, I think having printed copies is vital – and I don’t see how pushing readers in the other direction is helping the Cause.
My other problem is that The National remains a very ‘thin’ read for 80p. It’s essentially politics, politics, politics
and its ‘lifestyle’ sections (especially the ‘fashion’ page) are crap. That’s maybe OK, but it’s never going to build circulation unless it can cover a broader spectrum of Scottish life and do it better. That it took a huge sales hit after the general election unfortunately reflects the fact that its fortunes depend too much on the fluctuation of Scottish politics.
Oh, The National, while you’re reading these comments…
You really need to have a column called ‘Cybernat’s View’ – oh aye.
A truly wicked and beastly Cybernat column from… well from a thoroughly despicable Cybernat, of course.
Or perhaps not. People may think there are enough despicable Cybernats already writing for The National?
Just a thought…
Buy the National every day, disagree with lots of it everyday. However, I do agree that we need a presence on the newspaper shelves of local shops.
My question to the editor is this. If Newsquest is not politically motivated, why didn’t it launch The National a year before the referendum. It could have cleaned up in sales as the only daily pro-indy ?
Regarding the strap line, perhaps leaving out a couple of words would be helpful:
‘The newspaper thatsupports Scotland’
The ‘newspaper that supports and independent scotland’ maybe could be dropped unless all the others state ‘newspaper that supports the unionists’. It is true it is sometimes hidden, not only by customers but by staff as well.
As someone living south of the border I can’t get a hard copy but I get it digitally. I still remember being physically shaken by the onslaught of the press in the run up to the referendum. Goodness knows what is must have been like in Scotland itself and then you get the farcical review of the papers where a load of unionist commentators comment on equally unionist papers. It worries me from my perspective afar that not enough has changed in the media war.
So well done to The National, it’s not perfect but if we genuinely want independence then we simply have to support ventures like it and iScot.
Fergus Green perfect – The newspaper that supports Scotland or even The ONLY newspaper that supports Scotland.
Good to see this guest piece on multiple platforms, and just wanted to echo the previous comments re removing the banner.
Would be nice to see some new columnists too – or a page for guest writers, with Stu to kick it off perhaps 😉
I do like the National and have bought it pretty regularly over the last 3 years. I think it covers the essential issues pretty well. However, it is probably a little light on non-political coverage and would benefit from a little more lifestyle coverage. Whether the cost of that would be covered by increased sales/broader range of advertising I don’t know. This may have already been looked at by the team.
I’ve supported Wings at £50/year for the best pro indy investment… I have the hat… Is the national best value at 70/80p per day or what would wings achieve with the same funds
‘The National – Scotland’s True Champion’
I have bought The National everyday since it began, never missed one, and had the electronic version for the first year but stopped that when I had bother with the x-word which wouldn’t display properly.
My (third) mortgage finishes Jan 1st 2018. Yeah!
I’ll get back on line again then or even sooner. 🙂
Really good read and would be better with some occasional R. Campbell articles as others have already said.
“The Newspaper that supports Scotland” would be much, much better, as well as being a wee bit subtle.
Wow! I find it is really interesting that a possible link to the Herald was so upfront in this piece. He’s right of course. A connection to the Herald (now fully explained as tenuous) is a killer for The National/ Independence supporter.
Helen Yates makes an excellent point about a free weekly circulation to every household. I would counter the inevitable ‘cost’ riposte with – do it monthly or even quarterly. That way we wouldn’t be shoving it down peoples throats so to speak. I would take an annual subscription for that because its about not preaching to the converted. I am sure the Royal Mail offer this service by the amount of junk I get through the door.
BTW – I endorse the person above who suggested giving the Rev a column. That would really put the cat among the pigeons and I would defo then take a full subscription.”
Yes, obvs we have no idea if the WoS blogger has been offered a column in the National or wants one, he really should though. BUT, if he has not and will not be offered one, its as clear an indication of overall Herald editorial control. Because god knows, sales would jump if…
Its probably not up there with oor Eck getting his own tv show on RT but it could be for the National sales.
I mean, progressive liberal phoney’s stinky olde Graun, have had on all kinds of non msm Scottish bloggers, with all kinds of odd vote YES? meh stuff to say, all kinds. But never seen S. Campbell, ever.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The National FAQ Back in the summer we sang the praises of one of Scotland’s tiny semi-handful of […]
Another vote for getting rid of the ‘supports an independent Scotland’ strapline, either altogether or replacing it with ‘The Newspaper that Supports Scotland’
And yes, give Stu a weekly column.
Do both of these and I’ll start buying it every day.
Read every comment above.
Please stop being picky!! It is a voice for Yes. Just buy it.
I bought it (and sometimes spare copies to give away) every day for the first year.
For me they blew it when Nicola Sturgeon was getting pelters from the meedja regarding French Gate.
Every scum yoon press title ran a story which we new was a lie, the National should have defended Sturgeon with more vigour rather than taking the “soft” option. IMHO
I used to buy the Herald also, but they went down the “Gutter” a while back.
I would love to believe the National is up there for Indy, but “I hae ma doots”
I place no conditions to me buying the National 6 days a week. I gave up reading/buying newspapers years ago and must admit to having a liking for the National’s size…yeah, I’m contrary that way.
Where some clutch their papers tightly bound in embarrassment, I carry mine with the front cover on show. 😀
I don’t read it all as some I have no interest in but won’t stop buying it now after all this time.
I have to agree with others here about the Independent bit. It’s a paper which supports Scotland and all its cantankerous inhabitants!
Can I have a “safe space” from the _frankly_offensive_ views of the cat-woman?
– speaking as a self-identified pre-op transgender lesbian.
Once I transition I would like to apply for her job as I have plenty of opinions and a hoo-hoo which is just as good as that of any cis-woman, and thus am fully-qualified.
The National should give itself the tagline “we support scottish independence, up to a point, which we narrowly define ourselves and we’ll attack anything outside of this”
Baird should sack himself, give the mighty Rev the job.
I buy the hard copy and leave it once read on the train or bus.
Tough work though as Scotrail, Mcgills and co distribute the right wing metro free of charge.
I can think of a third cartoonist of merit
We all can.
I have subscribed to the digital issue of The National since inception and the print version of iScot. I also subscribe to the digital editions of the Sunday Herald and the Irish Times.
WoS offers “Nana’s Links” and others and I look at the free online Independent regularly.
Good links usually on Scotgoespop, Terry Entour and Arc of Prosperity.
No TV for me. I don’t like being told what to think,
At one_scot
I said the strapline should be stopped the moment I bought up the first issue.
It’s needlessly off putting for unionists, and stopping them having they eyes opened.
Good article and some really good constructive comments too.
I agree with the front page alteration. Why saying it supports an independent Scotland. The herald will never say ‘we support the union’.
@Jockanese Wind Talker says: 24 November, 2017 at 4:19 pm
“Hud oan, hud oan,
“But is our money going towards The Herald? No, we’re in a completely separate financial line. Decisions are made for each title based on the performance of each newspaper, and The Herald will sink or swim based on its own performance.”
Straight fae the horses mooth wi Stu’s blessing or Rocks ‘Jackie Baillie’
Tough one I know.”
There’s only one answer to that, Jockanese Wind Talker.
And here is:-
link to youtube.com
Well technically Newsquest did tell them not to publish Greg Moodie’s cartoon that time they were apologising to The Rangers for a journalist without his knowledge, and sacked another for supporting him.
Hamish 100 I like your thinking.
Seeing the Metro on the bus when I’m in Edinburgh always makes me think of travelling around on public transport depositing not only The National but all sorts of pro Indy literature including Stu’s best articles.
Over 60s travel free on the bus so why don’t those of us of a certain age make the most of it? Visit new places!
If you care about Scotland buy the National newspaper.
I subscribe to the digital version and sometimes buy a hard copy. Also subscribe to iScot. It is very important to have media which reflect our point of view. We are starved of a home grown media, unlike every other country.
As a special treat, I’m going to one of the Roadshows with Callum Baird and Paul Kavanagh next week. Looking forward to the opportunity to hear what they have to say and meet with other supporters.
I have no criticism to offer because I expect the format to grow and develop. Good suggestions above though. A Rev Stu column would be a “must read”.
Brilliant article.
Occasional buyer. After this article will buy more – tempted to subscribe but don’t have time to read everyday.
I LOVE the covers. Brilliant. Eye catching and make a difference. Yes. Agree strap line should change. And Stu should have a column.
Other than that well done to The National’s team. Doing the roadshows in particular are inspirational. They’re really getting out there
@Rev. Stuart Campbell says: 24 November, 2017 at 4:31 pm:
““If anyone from the National is reading this I would drop the line ‘The Newspaper that supports an Independent Scotland’
Not sure that floating voters or neutral voters or even No voters are going to buy it with that on the front page.”
Agree with this, actually.”
I’d go along with that, Stu.
However it depends upon whether they want to establish themselves as a new nation daily newspaper or be just a political leaflet on behalf of the YES movement.
To put that a slightly different way – do they want to sell themselves as a normal national daily newspaper covering the Scottish news as viewed from an independence person’s viewpoint or be a political leaflet pushing independence for Scotland.
Mind you the consequences are that they would needs cover some facets of Scottish life that really have no particular political axes to grind.
Just as several existing, so called National Dailies, think that Scottish football is only concerned by two teams and all other teams in Scotland are only there to be the victims, rather than the competitors of the teams the publications are obsessed with who thus limit their appeal to only those who favour those two teams – now what were those two names again?
In other words they need to set their sights on the whole of Scottish life and the politics as secondary. Only then will the people buy it for the newspaper value and not just because it favours independence. Otherwise they indeed always will be preaching to the converted.
Blimey!
Rock won’t know where to start…
Interesting. I buy the National most days, hardly get time to read it and sometimes the front page is a bit cringeworthy, though with some great articles inside when I do get to read them! Needs to look at how they report and phrase some items re the SNP, though, imo. I know it is non partisan, but at times find it a bit too scathing of the SNP. We have plenty of negativity in that way from the 100% britnat rags. A few more out there facts, giving credit where it’s due would be good to see.
All in all, though, I will buy it and continue to pick it up off the bottom shelf from under the weekly sports papers.
Just one thing, a couple of times the paper would not scan so the staff in my local coop scanned 2 tory rags to make it up to the 80p. I was livid and sent a huge complaint, seems ok now.
And yes, ditch the ‘independence’ in the title, more people might buy it then. Very best of luck.
Always buy one. Might take out a subscription. Don’t like all the Rise stuff but realise readers can’t have everything. If all else fails put the price up. The faithful will still buy it. It is quite surprising seeing all the 10p – 20p cheaper on the MSM. Misleading to look at the actual price 65p etc. Worthless.
The Irish holding Westminster to account. Who says Independence doesn’t work.
A false alarm and panic. Oxford Street. Price of Tube in London without Oyster or clickless. £4.90p for two stops.
I’d go for the subscription, mentioned above.
🙂 @Robert Peffers says at 6:26 pm
Also echo the comments of all above.
A weekly column for Rev Stu, get rid o’ Angry Salmond or Cat Radical ‘BritNatLabour’ Boyd
New Strap line, I’d go for:
“Championing Scotland”
Subtle dig at the Daily Red Coat and justified by its Scottish Produce campaign.
Yes to Fergus’s suggestion below.
Fergus Green says:
24 November, 2017 at 5:24 pm
Regarding the strap line, perhaps leaving out a couple of words would be helpful:
‘The newspaper thatsupports Scotland’
I have a subscription for delivery of a print version through a newsagent (a rare privilege these days), plus a digital subscription because i thought it would let me access articles online from FB etc. It doesn’t, and would be nice if it did.
I shall keep on buying one or the other as long as it exists, I see no point in being picky about content, it is overall in alignment with what I think Scotland needs, and still the only newspaper worth buying.
ot
well done to the women and men teams reaching their respective finals of the European Championships in curling.
If only they were British –then we wouldn’t have news 2 days late on the bbc web page that the teams were doing quite well.
link to bbc.co.uk
The finals on tele?
just aint cricket.
It would be really good to have Rev Stu facts and figures in it. Good publicity.
The letters often rebuke some of the columnists misconceptions, A letter rejecting Cat Boyd (naive) account of the SNP bringing down the Labour Gov (six months early) after they voted against the Labour Devolution betrayal. The 40% rule etc. Then had to wait 20 years (Thatcher) for Devolution introduction. 1979 till 1999. Scotland would be Independent by now. If that had not happened. Some of the rise/green accounts can be naive. They are younger and have a second hand account. To that of those who witnessed the reaction and involvement by being there. A good, comprehensive education can help and the internet to gather facts.
It is quite weird the SNP was betrayed, because of ignorance and misinformation. Everyone looked to London as the bench mark of prosperity. The Oil revenues being spent there. To how the SNP are viewed and supported now, as good competent managers. Scotland is a different place and could/will get even better.
@osakisushi says: 24 November, 2017 at 4:43 pm:
“The stable partner relationship with the Herald really makes me hesitate. I’ve bought the National a few times over the years but every time the Herald comes out with reprehensible nonsense, I am reminded where the National hails from.”
To be blunt, osakisushi, that is a somewhat narrow-minded view.
Now don’t get upset at that – I’m a plain speaker and do not beat about the bush – the point I’m attempting to make is that a broader view shows that it is factually a flawed argument in that you are comparing only two of the publications from a holding company that owns hundreds of publications and many of them have no political leanings.
It is thus futile to associate the National with only the Herald. Here is a cut & paste about, “Newsquest”:-
It boils down to this – if, as you thought, the National helps support the Herald then it must also logically support the other 204 publications owned by Newsquest which most certainly are not all unionist propaganda sheets.
Perhaps you listened too much to Rock.
I buy the National every day. It’s such a relief to read an alternative view of the politics of Scotland. I am heartily sick of the BBC and the rest.
The National is well written,presents informative articles and amusing cartoons..I enjoy the overall content of the paper. Please hang on in there…….Fortune favours the Brave.
I’ll keep buying it. If only to sometimes see my name in print. Make a comment online and become famous! [smiley face thingy]
Print media is dying and will die, unless subsidised by digital, or a billionaire owner. Hardly anyone under forty buys a newspaper, and they never will. Most people over forty are Wed to the daily paper they have bought since their teens. The only answer to the question and answers in the article that didn’t ring ‘true’, was the msm/BBC reply.
I have a rolling subscription to this great paper. I agree that it should have as Mr Peffers states “a new strap line”
I await with interest the harbinger of doom aka Rock advising us all that we are fools feeding the Unionists straw man.
Oh well. I like it anyway.
I have an online subscription. Buy print edition ocassionally. Place copies in prime position in stores. Cover the Daily Mail preferably. My friend 80-yr old Lorna has ordered a copy for daily delivery to our local chip shop where it is on windowsill for any punters to browse.
Agree to changing the strapline. Disagree to continuing with Cat Boyd – utter imbecile.
Leave print copy when read in library, doctor surgery, bus, wherever.
@Bob Mack says: 24 November, 2017 at 7:36 pm:
“I await with interest the harbinger of doom aka Rock advising us all that we are fools feeding the Unionists straw man.
Oh well. I like it anyway.”
That’ll be, “Rock of Rages”, then, Bob Mack?
As someone who has never bought the National, this article has convince me to start looking out for it.
I also agree that having at least a weekly article by Rev would be a good move for the National.
The free publicity you would get from the inevitable media meltdown, that would follow the announcement that the rev had a voice in the MSM wold be worth its weight in gold.
I see that the ‘broadband is crap in Scotland’ has been answered on WOS twitter in three posts. 🙂
PS:
Hamish100
I’m watching curling on a live stream everyday.
Try it if you want to 🙂
I’ve got Norton: Malware bites(good) + 3 others incl Ad Block Plus chrome all free apps.
cricfree.sc stream is one of many.
Watching Queen’s eleven in a min… (er now).
There are lots of streams out there.
Only paper I buy and am happy with the content.
Apart from the 7 SKY adverts which are not the only things to watch. For example Dundee are playing Rangers tonight and BT is showing the game as they do with Scottish football, but get no advert from the National.
Guid on yer! To ALL purveyors of truth! I Never pay for Unionist lies, why should I? Reassuring to be able to read the other side of ‘news’. Perhaps one day the truth will out, and the ignorant, uneducated minority will reject the propaganda of BBC, ITV, Daily Record, Scotsman et al, and join us and vote for freedom.
My Husband has a subscription, we used to buy the paper but having moved out of town it became problematic to get it every day. I would agree that the National has needed to rid it’s political statement from the top of the page, but probably a bit late now. New readers will come though present money shortages may be one of the reasons. Papers are more easily accessed by mobile phones and tablets these days, and this is being said by a seventy year old.
Happy Birthday, pity you were not a few years older.
I still mourn the loss of so many lives incurred on the lies of Westminster politicians.
Getting away with waging war and mass destruction of life, property and infrastructure is mindful of events in Europe just over 60 years ago.
And the perpetrators ended up in court at Nuremberg
link to caltonjock.com
Robert Peffers & Bob Mack
It his tae be said though ….for the fist time in a very,very, very,very, long time.
It will actually be interesting tae see what Rocks Rant will be tonight.
Since one of his 3 go to subjects is the topic
Will it be Robert?
Will it be Sovereignty?
Will it be the stupidity of buying the National?
Now I’m wondering if this the Real meaning of black Friday?
@Robert Peffers,
Rock reminds me of a man with size 10 shoes and size 12 feet who has to walk 5 miles a day.
I’m in for it now.
Jockanese Wind Talker @ 18:58,
CmonIndy @ 19:43,
Agree with you both there about Cat Boyd in particular. Her latest sally at the SNP re 1979 is straight out of the BritLab excusebook. A fair-weather friend if ever there was one.
On a more positive note, a very generous tribute also today from Peter A Bell:
link to indyref2.scot
Another serious indy advocate who would surely benefit the paper with more than just an occasional letter.
Maybe Oor Eck could get callum Baird as a guest on his show,we bit o publicity for the National,ye never know. 😉
Always buy MY paper, I have my National calendar and my “you yes yet” cup ; peeps know my view when they enter ma hoose.
As above I think the Rev would be ideal for the paper what a scoop.yoon media would go mental
And if anyone is still paying bbc propoganda tax, get rid and buy summit that might open yer eyes. The National.
Re; The Rev writing a column in the National.
I binned a weekly column last year for a London thing, due to the “pressure” of meeting a 5pm deadline on a Thursday, every Thursday. All year.
As I write this, I know it sounds ridiculous but if The Rev has already dodged a column offer, I’d understand why.
Rock won’t know where to start…
Bet you a Coke, Rock will have a trolls night out and off tonight. Rock loves a good scrap but yoons be chicken too.
Cluck cluck Rock, cluck cluck:D
What about line3 below the National saying, ‘supports a forward looking Scotland’. Or is that too crass.
I mean the UKGov is intent on taking England and rUK backwards, but we are quite keen on moving forwards into the er, 21st century thanks. In a good way of course.
Probably like a few of you I used to deliver the papers in my local area. The bag was stuffed full and on a Sunday almost too heavy to carry.
Times have changed and so too has newspaper content, nowadays in the main I find that the newspapers judging by their online content are in the main not worth paying for so I don’t.
I live around 6 miles from the nearest newsagent so there’s no chance of me getting a paper delivered, I do though buy the National whenever I go into town and take up a pew at a friendly hostelry.
In general I like the paper and the content though it could do more to attract other readers that are not political anoraks like myself.
If I could give some friendly advice it would be this.
I agree with others here in that you should ditch the strapline “The Newspaper that supports an Independent Scotland” all Independence supporters already know that and it’s not them that the National need to attract. You should be looking for a broader readership.
Reconsider the format of the front page and think about going for something more mainstream, yes I know how that sounds but an imaginative headline with a good story underneath is more likely to capture someone’s eye who is not already a supporter of Independence.
Lastly as plenty have said give Rev Stu a column I’m guessing your sales figures for that day would double and who knows once someone new to your paper has read it they might come back for more.
The MSM wouldn’t touch Stu with a barge pole, their loss, though you don’t need to be like them. He IS the best writer in Scotland on politics by far, way better than McWhirter or McKenna and hundreds of miles ahead of some of your current columnists.
You know it makes sense so go for it and I wish you well.
No idea where the line3 came from.
Yes, change the “the newspaper that supports Indy” thing, existing buyers already know. But maybe as an alternative to the other good suggestion:
“Supporting Scotland the Brand”. or similar.
I see no harm in some articles that criticise the SNP – BUT always have one alongside from an SNP MSP or MP, even if it’s one “on tap”.
Maybe a weekly column “Media review” by the Rev, maybe a Saturday.
Some sort of contest for newsagents “Double your sales for a week for, err, something, lucky dip draw, dinner with Frankie Boyle or Gordon Brown, take your pick”.
And perhaps, like the Herald of old, free shopsigns for shops, with “The National – Scotland the Brand” or sommat.
…Rock hasn’t made his rant yet…very surprised!
I like the National. I stopped reading newspaper 15years ago. I now subscribe to the National because it is a good newspaper AND gives a platform to a wide range of Independence supporting politicians, bloggers and writers.
…Rock hasn’t made his rant yet…very surprised!
I like the National. I stopped reading newspapers 15years ago. I now subscribe to the National because it is a good newspaper AND gives a platform to a wide range of Independence supporting politicians, bloggers and writers.
Happy Birthday The National!Still reading it and enjoying acknowledging other readers.However have to hunt The National quite often at my local shop(hidden under Racing Post etc etc).
Completely O/T-check out Broken Records,a great Scottish band
‘Cometh the hour, cometh the man…’
Rock?
Rock?
Ye there…?
@osakisushi says: 24 November, 2017 at 8:26 pm:
“As I write this, I know it sounds ridiculous but if The Rev has already dodged a column offer, I’d understand why.”
You most certainly are not alone in that understanding, osakisushi.
I appreciate that Stu must often be burning the candle at both ends and I’d hate for him to have to start burning it both ways from the middle as well.
Writers Block is a very real problem as many have found in the past.
I’ve bought the National from day1. It has an excellent range of regular columnists, good sports coverage.Rev Stu would be a great asset as the “debunking” columnist.i have no criticism of the National.
In response to the comment that the Witches article was lowering the tone of the newspaper, I’d say the title was intended as an “attention grab” to inform of a technical oddity, why does dowsing work? I’m a retired Chartered Engineer – of the “Aye right, show me” stance. We had a dowser at our allotments leading up to installing a borewell. He offered me a go, and yes,the handheld wires did move in my hands at the position the dowser identified.Some 7 years later we’re still drawing water from the well.
@Ian Brotherhood says: 24 November, 2017 at 9:04 pm:
“‘Cometh the hour, cometh the man…’
Rock?
Rock?
Ye there…?”
Wheeshit! Ian, Dinna Rock the Boat.
I subscribe to the National on line but sometimes it is very difficult to get into…. And I often give up. I think we need to support it. Often go into to supermarket and it is hidden behind other papers. Will try to make an effort to buy the paper copy too and leave it in other places.
@ yesindyref2 8.39
Beat me too it! I was thinking of the Rev doing a ‘This Week in Scotland’ that would cover just about anything!
The National doing a media review weekly/fortnightly and how about a ‘Did you know that….’ with good news from thoughtcontrolscotland. It doesn’t have to be always current, god there’s been plenty of stuff that folks don’t know!
I also agree with a column from Peter Bell and changing the banner.
Rock is The Classic BritNat, @Ian Brotherhood says at 9:04 pm
‘Cometh the hour, cometh the man…’
When the going gets tough the BritNats send in the Jocks IB always have done.
Rock is MIA
Maybe ‘cos the Jocks are fighting for themselves these days?
Maybe ‘cos he’s got enough days in for his bounty wi the 77th and is having the weekend off?
Aye, Aye @Robert Peffers says at 9:04 pm:
“Wheeshit! Ian, Dinna Rock the Boat”
Typo Mr Peffers?
Fixed it for you:
“Wheeshit! Ian, Dinna, Rock’s a scroat”
Hello from Tassie:
I’m sure I’ve seen an article by Stuart in the National some time back?
Best wishes to everyone
x
Velofello, btw I have six Velo’ s these days, 1 x Valiant 1 x kss Springer project, 1 x mov Racer project 1 x Velo metisse , 1 x Venom Racer 1 x Venom Clubman plus enough bits to build another couple
Anyways. Yeah I thought the article about dowsing in the national was poorly subtitled, it annoys me that Christians think their superstitions are better than others,people who believe in talking snakes should not judge others . I too used downed once I used welding rods to find a drain, dug where the twitched and found it about three feet down , we used them all the time when I worked with the Arran Roads Dept when I left Skool. I get the National every day, gotta say it’s the bestest paper I have ever bought. All Indy supporters if they can afford it should buy it, just to ensure its front page is visible to give an alternative view on the newstands.
I buy the National most days and always read the readers letter pages which are very interesting. here in Prestwick/Ayr I often have to rake through papers in most shops that sell it which ic very annoying. Any one else have this problem.
There are some Rocks that don’t need to be turned over… 🙂
PS:
Murdo Fraser your team took a helluva beating! Good game.
Dee 2 V QE 1
To reach the masses you need to have a racing section, complete with a good tipster,Alex Salmond?, eh maybe no.
Happy Birthday to the National and a great big thank you to the staff who work so hard to keep it going on a shoestring budget.
It’s the only newspaper other than the Sunday Herald that supports independence and that offers a platform for our independence writers. That alone should encourage people to buy it. That is if we want an alternative to the Unionist propaganda that’s being shoved down our throats on a daily basis. More than anything one article after another (and the readers pages) contains information that I don’t come across elsewhere, including on here, that I can use to great effect on doorsteps etc. There’s also historical, literary and cultural articles that are real eyeopeners that make you feel proud to be a Scot. Articles on what’s going on abroad are also extremely informative and interesting.
I’d never considered that advertising the fact that it supports independence could go against them, duh! That might be right enough. Stu having a column, if he so wanted, would be controversial. I can just imagine the Unionist MSM furore. Would that put people off buying it altogether or attract hundreds / thousands of more readers?
Some people complain that the newspaper isn’t perfect but I’d reckon that if they had more money to spend, through more sales, they’d be able to do so much more. Would have more readers proferring constructive suggestions instead of griping about what they have nitpickingly previously found wrong with it. Comparing it with newspapers that do sell more newspapers could help? More daily mundane Scottish news or whatever?
Some people complain about the Boyd articles, etc, but if we go down the route of it becoming an SNP mouthpiece that will stymie the sales too.
The bottom line is that we complain about the ‘content’ of 99% of newspapers in Scotland, the BBC and so on. We all acknowledge that this is the greatest challenge that we face in acquiring our independence, so why on earth hesitate, find some excuse not to buy it? Don’t forget too that the online editions are getting the word out there to people beyond our shores. The truth of the matter in relation to our natural resources and assets. Our wealth. The true picture of what’s going on in the UK. What we’re up against.
Our ancestors, many of them poverty stricken, gave their lives in an attempt to acquire their freedom. To free Scotland. People in enslaved countries, who have had their news agencies shut down, have risked imprisonment, torture and death to spread the word. In many cases it worked out for them eventually. If the people of Scotland want their freedom surely sitting at home in relative comfort, registering for the online edition of the National or trotting down to the shops, without having to look over their shoulder, to fork out 80 pence a day isn’t too much to ask for. And if there’s anyone reading on here that really can’t afford to do so, and I’m sure there are some, then all the more reason for those of us who can do so, to do it for them.
Robert Peffers @ 21:08,
Writers’ block may be an occupational hazard for fiction-writers, but in the case of the struggle of Scottish autonomy against suffocating British Nationalism, it’s not as though the raw supply of fact isn’t stranger than fiction. And not lacking in quantity either.
As we’ve all said from time to time, “you couldn’t make this up”. The absurdities just keep on comin’. You can hardly avoid bumping into them. The main difficulty would seem to be keeping up with all of it without getting totally worn out.
It’s the BritNat media who seem to stray in the way of fiction rather than fact. One might be tempted to wish them a good dose of the block whereof you speak, except in the end their increasingly-desperate lies and distortions are actually helping us along the way…
Oh Aye, and O/T Murdo “Queens 11” Fraser will be greeting at this:
Dundee FC 2 – 1 Rangers
Happy Weekend BritNats
😉
@Robert Peffers –
🙂
It’s too early in this thread to start going OT but I did post a link on the last one which I was hoping to get your thoughts on. If you get a chance (i.e. if you haven’t already seen it and decided not to comment!) I’d be grateful.
RE…. the Rev writing for the National
How about as a compromise…. Because the man has tae sleep!
One day a week the he sends them a Wing’s article of his choosing from the previous seven day’s
And then everyone could be invited to come over here and see what we were all sayin about it.
And we could also join in the Nationals online comments as well.
The publicity could work both way’s.
As both Wing’s and the National would be reaching new reader’s?
@ Lenny Hartley: nice collection of Velos. i just have the one, a KSS Mk2. Had Vipers and Venoms over the years.Sat my test on a rigid MAC. My biking was mainly scrambling and trials , with some enduros – Cheney Triumphs, HT5 Ariels, Trials Cubs. Upon becoming too old for such exertions I intended doing vintage racing with the KSS, had the motor uprated, fancy cam, HC piston etc etc., and then I encountered the cost of vintage racing entry fees. Eh, no thanks.
OT, but as we are talking about the struggle to develop, can I suggest some more reading material for Kezia? Hopefully someone kind can forward the links. 😉
link to plato.stanford.edu
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
@Kezia Dugdale
How well do you think Scotland will fair in an increasingly impoverished post-Brexit Britain, in the absence of any equilibrium of political power? Do you see HMG ditching the neo-liberal approach to government? Are you looking forward to Scotland being forced to remain a ‘peripheral region’ of a Britain that is out of the EU and without a plan?
whatever Rock says, he’s entitled to hold his opinion, just as Callum does.
After 3 years folk know fine what the National stands for, altering the strap-line won’t make a blind bit of difference & any paper can claim to “Support Scotland”. The editor want’s back the readership he had before the G.E. Setting a date for another referendum will soon boost the readership & the peeps don’t buy the paper for the fashion page!
Having kicked around the newspaper biz for a few decades I’ve seen statements like this before.
And it ain’t good.
So suck it up Buttercup and buy this thing.
Cuz the writing’s on the sh!thouse wall.
Otherwise the Nat’s done like a dinner.
@Jockanese Wind Talker says: 24 November, 2017 at 9:26 pm:
“Fixed it for you:
“Wheeshit! Ian, Dinna, Rock’s a scroat””
I’ll tell you a wee true story.
Some years ago I inherited a wee smooth haired Fox Terrier from an old friend. He had to give up his tied farm cottage and go into a retirement home that did not allow pets. As I lived nearby he had free access to his beloved wee dog.
Now this wee dog actually didn’t understand English and only responded to lowland Scots commands and I, of course also speak lowland Scots, (not Scots Standard English), so I had no problems teaching the old dog new tricks. One of these orders the dog understood was “Wheeshit”, when being ordered to be quiet.
At the time I was still in full employment and was working lots of unsociable hours. So my late wife and I employed an otherwise unemployed villager who was, not to put too fine a point upon it, “a wee puckle saft”, to cut grass and tidy the garden. (well actually the gadgie was, “weel bliddy donnart).
Anyway, I had a very rare day off on one particular weekend and the guy was down to cut the grass, (he had bought a very good petrol mower and, to his credit, worked hard to earn a crust).
So I was pruning some roses and flowering shrubs and heard the guy with the mower calling the wee fox terrier back in after escaping when the grass cutter left the gate open to return his mower to his trailer.
He was calling the dog back in with what he thought was the wee dogs name, “Come on back in Wee Shit”.
I nearly ended myself trying not to laugh. I had to leave it to my late wife to explain to him that the wee terrier was named, “Laddie”.
It’s absolutely vital to the Indy movement that there is a visible, accessible newspaper that supports an Independent Scotland. It’s always instructive to contrast the National’s leading stories with other newspapers who don’t like the idea of an autonomous Scotland and apparently don’t like Scotland much.
Meanwhile Scotland is blazing a trail with MUP – the BMA suggests that other nations adopt a similar approach;
‘Scotland should be proud to become the first country in the world to introduce minimum unit pricing on alcohol after this supreme court decision and England should follow suit as a matter of urgency.
‘Minimum unit pricing in England would end the heavy discounting of high-percentage alcohol and reduce alcohol-related harm among the heaviest and youngest drinkers while leaving people who drink responsibly largely unaffected’
link to bma.org.uk
Scotland is also putting the health and well-being of its youngest citizens at the heart of many of its policies ;
link to fph.org.uk
This report from the Association of Directors of Children’s Services should make for very uncomfortable reading for WM;
‘There are four million children living below the poverty line currently, two thirds of whom live in working households, this is a relatively new phenomenon and it is concerning for ADCS members that England does not have a child poverty reduction strategy, particularly in light of the Institute of Fiscal Studies prediction that the number of children living in poverty will increase to a staggering five million by 2020/21’
link to adcs.org.uk
Scotland’s model of democracy is progressing and thriving- and it’s deliberate!
Happy Birthday to the National.
We have a digital subscription so read it on laptop, tablet or phone. When in the (not very) local Tesco my other half will pick up two copies by mistake and then put one back at the most convenient location, which may, just, happen to be occupied by some other publication. She tells me that the paper is the only one that she has ever read consistently in its entirety.
Journalistically it is a relief to read text without having wade through unnecessary relentless crap (… and a Labour spokesperson said SNPBad).
Content must be a very difficult judgement call as practically everything bar the political and business stuff is available on the Internet (e.g. if I paid the TV licence I would look at the Radio Times web site for listings), but the sport doesn’t seem to reflect the diversity of outdoor activities that take place in Scotland e.g. Scottish Coastal Rowing.
I agree with the comments about the strapline – supporting Scotland says it all.
Looking forward to the headlines after the majority of voters in Scotland vote for Scotland being an normal country.
@ Liz at 10:03pm …… “Two way publicity.”
Good idea Liz IF they’re both up for it. Something to consider, imo, when Stu gets his court case behind him.
Professor Robertson’s another that I reckon could make a fantastic contribution to the newspaper. Then again the National has to sell enough newspapers to find the money to pay people. That’s where we come in.
@velofello 9.15
Re. dowsing, I have known people like yourself who have had success with finding water this way. I have an open mind to many ‘unscientific’ practices and tend to look at evidence from both sides of an argument.
The main problem I have with the headline is the drive for sensationalism, feeding people’s prejudices and using casual misogyny. (See the photos accompanying the headline) If they wanted to draw attention to an unproven method of finding water they could achieve that without the witchcraft label.
I still love The National!
Petra @ 10.42
Only down side is that we would all have to behave ourselves. LoL……
The best political cartoonist in Scotland right now is Chris Cairns and if he’s not too busy relaxing by some pool in a foreign and warm place he should replace Slorrance whose efforts are dismal and childlike by comparison.
I buy the National daily and leave it on the bus and have an electronic subscription to help fund the only daily Independence voice in Scotland.
@ Liz g at 10:47pm … “Behave ourselves.”
Being role models for the independence movement? Understanding the concept of collective responsibility? Now that’s a BIG ask for some on here, lol, especially taking into account that some don’t actually support the independence cause at all.
Random thoughts on further promoting / helping Scotland’s, The National.
1) Increase the price to £1.
I would still buy at that, wouldn’t you? (saves messin’ about wae yer change/coinage)
Note: Going from 50p straight to one pound would be too much, too quick. Though since its introduction, The National has now established itself in Scotland with a regular reader base, so I reckon going to £1 for the need of another 20p would be seen as aweright and still value for money. What’s one pound? Ah mean, after all, when you pass a *homeless person* in your city streets, you sometimes say hello, check your change and put a £1 coin in their paper cardboard cup… don’t you?
2) Aye, alter the mission statement AND all for the better…
“The National ~ The Newspaper That Supports Bonnie Scotland”
I would LOVE to see the above.
3) Have “The National” newspaper stands outside of main transport hubs.
In Glasgow, this is what they do with The Evening Times (there are many dudes who have vendor stands throughout the city, with the cover page headline in big text on a board at the front).
How would that make you feel available persons… volunteering to be a dedicated vendor of The National, for Scotland, for a couple of hours a day. I reckon they would sell well that way too. Imagine doing a two hour shift outside of Central Station from 8am to 10am in the morning.
The ‘visible titles’ yer competing with in Glasgow are, The Evening Times, The Metro, The List and *The Big Issue*
Alternatively and out with the big cities, YOU could go into your local newsagent first thing in the morning, buy ALL available “The National’s” and sell them outside the shop to your passing neighbours. That way, nobody gets a chance to cover-em-up instore. Then once you’ve sold them all, with the money you’ve made, you can treat yourself to something nice 🙂
Everybuddy wins!
Cheers Callum, best wishes to The National for the future of Scotland..
(tomorrow’s sales figures of and for The National should be interesting!)
Maybe tomorrow’s Cairnstoon will have Hamish reading The National?
Petra @ 11.10
Well we could mibbi write some rules?
I’ll start……
1.There will be Nay Jungle Jaunts for any Winger till after Indy!
2.Standing on Irn Bru crate’s is to be discouraged!
3.?????…
Your turn…lol.
Good enough for me.
Will start buying again Monday.
@ Liz ……
3. Promise to stop throwing eggs at political opponents unless they are known to be rotten. The eggs that is.
@boris
hopefully one day Tony and Gordon get an early morning call from the police,and dragged away to the hague for conviction and sentence,
breath won`t be held though,
you referenced Nuremberg,
20,000,000 civilians murdered by Nazi,
Nazi party 8,500,000 members in 1945,
SS had 800,000 members early 1945,
10 nazi executed at Nuremberg for the murder of 20,000,000 civilians,
10 fricken Nazi out of 8,500,000 of the scum.
O/T re dowsing
Have used it on many occasions with 100% accuracy.
Didn’t even know it was a ‘thing’
Probably because it didn’t come with the ‘British Flag’ of approval.
Just a couple of more thoughts.
Newspapers are a pain for shops, take up space, take time sorting them when they arrive if people have ordered them, then ripping off a bit at the end of the day to send back and disposing of the bundles of unsold ones.
But they bring in customers, and one thing shops hate is when people come in, buy a paper and zoom off to do their big shop in the nearest big town or get the supermarkets to deliver to them.
So it’s encouraging people to support that shop with other sales, as well as the paper. Buy some booze, margins are higher, fags not a lot usually, food’s good of course, the odd luxury item with a high margin.
And – The National – remember when you started there was an A5 for ordering The National the likes of me downloaded and printed off in piles to leave around the place in partly interested shops? Play it again, Callum!
Petra @ 11.31
Good one..
How many and how rotten…. Be precise
Midnight and nae rock
puir wee sowel- will be watching all this talk about the National and not one good word to say about the Mail. telegraph express, record hootsman.
lifes cruel.
Call ne dave– thanks for the links to the curling -on am–c’mon Scotland
Bought The National when it first came out but cannot stomach the oxygen it gives to morons like Cat Boyd or it’s support for all things Bella over WoS.
It’s WoS that persuades people to support independence not wishy washy esoteric musings from bellends like Loki.
If the National is serious about increasing circulation then it needs to take a stronger stance on the BBC. Not a ‘warch dog’? Eh, of course you should be. The BBC are the most effective tool the unionists have in preventing us gaining independence. If you’re not prepared to take them head on I would rather save my money and donate to the annual WoS fundraiser.
All agreed, it seems then.
His Stuartness shall have a weekly column, entitled ‘Aye Right then’.
Busy bee, what with the soon to be announced guest slot on A S RT, ‘Debunking for Dummies’.
Monthly basic online package is my best buy tip.
Re-arranging the papers in McColls, Scotmid & Tescos is de rigueur.
No exceptions. DO IT.
Remember your basic training ? It’s all about the headline, stupid.
Carry on.
Soz. Forgot to say.
#FiFiOUT 🙂
@Juan P
When Bella looked like folding it got a lot of support from non-indy people who it reaches with its articles. Big donations I think. The different articles at least get their attention, and if they read the pro-indy stuff, then perhaps helps them on the way.
Cat Boyd appeals to the more left, but also perhaps the remaining staunch Labourites. The National is right to give a platform to all. Loki is a dick.
The rev could write under a pseu spued psuda fake name like
The Meenister
In my humble opinion, The National is a fake which has just one purpose – milking gullible independence supporters.
As much fake as the Labour party in Scotland.
Fortunately, only 8,000 people in Scotland are gullible enough to buy it.
It has achieved near ZERO for the independence cause in its 3 years’ existence.
It played a leading role in denying the SNP a majority by heavily promoting the Greens and RISE at the last Scottish election.
@ Cactus at 11:17pm …..”News vendors.”
Excellent post with some good suggestions Cactus.
Just thinking that you could cover the 12am to 6am stint, Cactus. Do a Kezia and reach out to, convert, the youngsters coming out of the clubs / all night parties. A most celebrated, most dedicated, Wings / National representative doing the night shift on his tod, lol. You could even video some of your encounters on the street and download on here. Now that would be something worth watching, lol. Would keep me, and others no doubt, up ALL night.
……………………………
@ Robert at 10:28pm ….. “A dog called Wee Sh*t.”
Thanks for the laugh Robert. Brilliant. It reminded me of the first time I visited the Western Isles. I was walking in the dark from one village to another a few miles away and there wasn’t a light, car or a soul in sight. Pitch black. A massive wild looking sheep dog appeared out of nowhere and crept along behind me. The dog was practically as big as me as I was very young at the time. I was really spooked out of my brain box, had practically convinced myself that it was a wolf (vivid imagination, lol) and every so often when I could pluck up the courage I would stop and tell it to go home. The dog would stop and hunker down initially and then continue to trot after me. This went on until I arrived at the village, nearly wetting myself, and explained what had been going on to some people that I met. They fell about laughing and shouted “dol dhachaigh’ to the dog who turned and ran off. That was the moment that I decided that I had to learn to speak some Gaelic. Gaelic for “go home” at least.
Robert Peffers,
“That’ll be, “Rock of Rages”, then, Bob Mack?”
You are an aggressive verbal bully here and almost certainly a nasty person in real life.
If you are as clever as you think, why don’t you have your own site to flog your “knowledge”?
Instead of contaminating every article on someone else’s website with your verbal diarrhoea.
Why haven’t you ever written a book on the history of the union?
Agreed. Loki, it would seem, is a grade A (class 1) self indulgent dick. It’s what attracted JK to him. A cute wee pet Nat.
Sheridan, sans his charisma, intelligence, integrity or wit.
“We’ve spoken to thousands of our readers.”
All 8,000 of them?
This article is nothing more than Pravda GB type propaganda.
Only the most gullible would fall for it.
“In my humble opinion”
You are Callum Baird and I claim my £8.76.
How much additional cost would be involved in a subscription based weekly print copy (with a summary of the weeks news, articles and opinion pieces) – direct to our homes? At what price would this sort of subscription become feasible?
I’m sure if it could be done for a pound or two a week, even some on lower incomes might be able to afford to subscribe and increase print readership significantly. This would at least go some way to ensuring future financial stability.
After reading the weekly edition they could leave them in prominent places such as public transport, the pub, cafes, libraries and other spots where they are likely to be picked up and read too which may draw more subscribers in the medium to longer term.
Just thinking out loud really. I have no idea what sort of costs would be involved.
I buy two Nationals every day – one for distribution as opportunity presents itself – and I have to say it continues to improve. Big hug to Carolyn Leckie who has developed into a very articulate proponent for independence is a very easily absorbed style but there are first class contributions every day and the letters pages are particularly good indicators of where we are going and what we are doing.
I cannot understand why anybody would have any reservations about supporting it and congratulations to Callum Baird and his small very hard working team who put this together on a shoe string .
On dowsing it undoubtedly works but it is much more complicated than just finding water. I would recommend T C Lethbridge’s detailed studies of dowsing and his experiments with the pendulum which came out of this. Pretty mindblowing, it establishes without a doubt a force we have no present understanding of.
heedtracker,
“Why don’t you have a column from a certain S. Campbell, Wings over Scotland blogger!?
I’d buy that:D”
Rock (10th February – “The centrifuge”):
“They could pay the Rev. Stuart Campbell a modest fee for writing their front page headline and accompanying article every day.”
Hi Rock *all waves*
A few comments:
– yes, ditch the ‘Paper that supports Indy’ bit on the front.
– we all need to make a point of supporting the businesses that advertise in the National. They’re putting themselves out there to support a pro-Indy paper…and will lose some business because of it. But heck, around half the country supports Indy…let’s make ‘coming out for Indy’ a profitable thing to do..!
– I like some aspects of the National, in addition to its pro-Indy stance. For example the fact that they’ve given real prominence to women’s football at times.
– but I do still find it pretty thin and dry. It takes about 7 minutes to read it. It needs to be more than reconstituted news (that you read/heard already elsewhere) and the same old columnists drawn from the Yes movement.
– there is a huge market out there. Remember that on its first day it sold out of 100,000 copies…you couldn’t find a copy for love nor money after about 9.30am. It simply needs to be a better paper. That’s not a criticism of the fabulous folk who perform miracles each day to get the paper out…it’s an encouragement to Newsquest to invest properly in it.
heedtracker,
“Bet you a Coke, Rock will have a trolls night out and off tonight. Rock loves a good scrap but yoons be chicken too.”
Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, I am perfectly capable of making my point even if it is one against a hundred.
It is the likes of Robert Peffers who run away when they are challenged.
Robert Peffers, when was the last time “sovereign” Scots exercised their “sovereignty” to impeach a ruling monarch?
Some time ago I made the suggestion that it should be possible for registered volunteer agents to pick up Nationals to be returned and deliver them to households in their area.
Ideally it would be folk who already deliver indy stuff on an assigned ‘patch’ so they could be delivered systematically with no overlap.
My patch of about 300 households, if my newsagent had 5 papers I could pick up per day (near the end of the day so would be returns anyway) and deliver, would mean every household getting 1 free national in about 3 months.
As I said in my post, there would have to be some kind of sign off procedure so that the newsagent still got compensated for unsold newspapers.
Extra papers could possibly be sent by the National to those newspaper vendors involved.
I have been told by someone that the National gets about half the newspapers it sends out returned.
If a system like that could be introduced then those papers rather than going to waste, could be used to spread the word and increase the circulation of the National.
I think most foot soldiers would not mind delivering say 5 a day, for all the time that would take.
Such a scheme could see a large proportion of return put instead to very good promotional use.
Paula Rose,
“Hi Rock *all waves*”
Hi Councillor Paula Rose.
Too busy with your constituents these days?
@ Liz g at 11:47pm …. “How many and how rotten. Be precise.”
Well as many as you can fire off before you get gubbed or arrested Liz. And if you’re not sure if they are rotten enough (prepare … stock up at home for months on end) there’s always stink bombs and rotten tomatoes, lol. Just play it by ear. Depends on who it is (really deserves pelters), who’s around (have you got hauners?), if you’ve got your trainers on or five inch high heels etc. And eh always wear your Union Jack tied around your waist. It helps if you get caught. Then you just act daft and say that you thought your target was Nicola or John Swinney and you’re sure to get off. Use the noggin Liz.
(Only kidding of course … before I get pelters on here.)
…………………….
@ Juan P at 12:11am …. “Cat Boyd etc.”
Juan no one would buy the National if it was seen to be solely an SNP mouthpiece. A ‘Yes Man’ newspaper right enough. These articles, when they contain content that we don’t agree with, also serve a purpose, imo. You find that readers come back with their views and ‘correct’ the writer. Some of the responses are brilliant and with additional information is an education in itself.
………………
PS … If your supermarket doesn’t stock the National contact their Head Office and ask them to do so.
constituents: component parts of something.
Sounds a bit naughty to me.
It played a leading role in denying the SNP a majority by heavily promoting the Greens and RISE at the last Scottish election.
It has no influence but plays leading roles Rock? Have to admit they were extremely even handed at the last strong and stable farce GE for Teresa rule, with a lot of backing for Rise especially. But its still a Herald stable mate, no matter what, even if it was clear at the time planet toryboy was out to get top SNP people, like Salmond and Robertson.
When they pay the WoS blogger from Bath to go mainstream, you’ll know there’s been a major shift in the Herald. Which is why it will probably never happen?
Is Mr Leask the kind of toryboy yoon to tolerate anyone like the WoS blogger anywhere near his office?
Leask’s the kind of toryboy ligger that thinks he can also edit Alex Salmond’s show on RT, having gone UKOK mental at it all too. Yoons be very odd indeed. Ultimately, we can’t trust any journo or any media ligger in the UK today, not one bit.
David Leask?Verified account
@LeaskyHT
3h
An interesting story for Alex Salmond to cover on RT.”
I agree with the Rev. and said so at the launch, having supports independence on the front page is a mistake, quite a big one IMV.
Cat Boyd and her worship of Corbyn’s hard brexit utopia is neither challenging nor insightful nor thought provoking, just irritating and, quite frankly, harmful to the independence movement.
I fear for the future of the National if they can’t see that she’s turning their readers away. Telling us she’s just another voice in the mix isn’t going to bring them back, that’s an insulting response to people’s concerns, actually.
do yer famaily a favour Buy yer grandma a subscription…. help old folk understand why Scotland is important. 😉
Great support for the National and some excellent suggestions have been posted on here. Another would / could be contacting ex-pat clubs / agencies abroad.
But here we go again. One of the most well known strategies used to achieve one’s objective is to target the greatest threat / s by trying to undermine / discredit them whether it be a newspaper, the SNP or an individual such as Nicola Sturgeon or Robert Peffers. I know that the National, Robert etc support independence, so make if it what you will folks.
High time that someone on here put a stop to the constant barrage, on a daily basis, that Mr Peffers has had to put up with for many months now. It’s ruining the site, is off-putting and basically a disgrace.
I agree with the Rev. and said so at the launch, having supports independence on the front page is a mistake, quite a big one IMV.
Why though Chick? I think this is where the professionals should decide because it what they do, present their newspaper on the newsstands. Its their job.
I think they should directly mirror the Daily Record and the ferocity with which the DR crew monsters the SNP, indy and Scottish democracy.
I’d be a lot more enthusiastic buying it if they had their on version of sneaky shits like Severin Carrell or Torquil Crichton or even the DR’s thug editor from NI for example.
Keep Cat Boyd, drop the ‘supports Scottish Independence’.
I only ever read one of her columns anyway, long before the second coming of JC.
heedtracker,
“It has no influence but plays leading roles Rock?”
Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, it has near ZERO influence in the cause of independence but it played a leading role in denying the SNP a majority by heavily promoting the Greens and RISE at the last Scottish election.
heedtracker (9th February – “A division of principles”):
“Rock, whatever you’re up to on WoS, listen up, the author of Wings over Scotland is not the messiah and he’s not going to win ref 2.”
Rock (9th February – “A division of principles”):
“If anyone can tip the balance in favour of winning, it is this site and its author.”
While the fake “independence supporting” The National has near zero influence, WOS and its author have massive influence in favour of independence.
Petra,
“High time that someone on here put a stop to the constant barrage, on a daily basis, that Mr Peffers has had to put up with for many months now. It’s ruining the site, is off-putting and basically a disgrace.”
“Someone on here”? Who do you mean?
Rev. Stuart Campbell says (to Petra):
6 October, 2017 at 11:09 am
(“Have I Got Evasion For You”)
“I’m going to say this one last time and then, with the very greatest of reluctance, I’m going to ban you for NOT FUCKING LISTENING.
DO.
NOT.
POST.
THE.
SAME.
COMMENT.
REPEATEDLY.
If it falls foul of the filters the first time you try, THE SAME FUCKING THING WILL HAPPEN EVERY OTHER TIME. OBVIOUSLY. The filters don’t change from one comment to the next. All you do is create a giant mess for me to clean up behind the scenes.
You do it over and over again. I don’t know how many times I have to say it.
Sometimes I have to go out. Sometimes I’m just taking a break for a few hours. When I get back, I’ll check the comments needing approval and your comment will be approved. That’s how it works. That’s how it’s always worked. That’s how it will continue to work. Everyone else manages to follow the rules.
Your posts are enormously long, and when I get in and find 20 of them in the approval queue, all several screens high, I have to scroll endlessly up and down trying to work out which ones are new and which ones are the same ones posted five times in a row. It’s UNBELIEVABLY tedious and time-consuming and soul-destroying and I’ve FUCKING WELL TOLD EVERYONE NOT TO DO IT A HUNDRED TIMES.
Do not do it again. We clear?”
@Rock
Both statements can’t possibly be true, just the one.
“it played a leading role in denying the SNP a majority by heavily promoting the Greens and RISE at the last Scottish election”
“The National has near zero influence”
So which is it? A leading role or zero influence?
@Rock
I’m thinking you’ve gone too far now Rock with the latest rant against Petra. Your days here are surely numbered. Your an arse and repeatably prove that to be so. It’ll be good riddance from me.
@ Rock
Yir getting thon creepy wey again fella.
Thepnr @ 02:01,
My feeling too. We don’t agree about everything on here but we are supposed to be on the same side. Such personalised unpleasantness is in no way compatible with that.
Just whose website anyway does he think this is?
Petra
Don’t you rise to that rant my friend.
He is just trying to deflect from the topic of the National.
Getting everyone all riled up after arriving unusually late.
He gave a quick comment on the National, something about everyone being duped by it (which by default must include the Rev who has just given it a major platform)
But then moved quickly on to hit his other pet subjects and is now at the goading stage.
He is just doing his usual Gaslighting.
He has had nothing new to say for year’s now.
When ye think about it there was no other reason for the Rant
You are a respected poster on here and I hope willing to take my word for it,and agree the best thing to do with it is go no contact.
Not that your not fit for him….but because you have better things to be sayin on here.
Petra….
Oh and by the way
While it’s a bit late tonight,if you’re intending on using the contact button tomorrow to ask the Rev to take a look at what is going on!
You can include my name in the email as agreeing with you.
He either will or he won’t but at least he will know that there’s someone causing issues on his site!
Yeah, I believe it was important that The National declared itself for independence in the beginning (that is, in ‘independence’ being part of the daily ‘strap-line’) to assert identity.
Thereafter three years of circulation (14/17), the front page strap-line could now have a ‘neutral stance’ in reference to Scotland. Everybody now knows their stance, the evidence to The National supporting an independent Scotland would be in their daily headlines / articles.
A bit like a country first gaining their independence status and then operating as an independent country, without the need to repeat their new found status, years later.
SO Scotland becomes iScotland becomes Scotland again. The silent “i” will always then be there, but many years following Scottish independence, we won’t need to keep using / saying iScotland, we’ll just be. Just like other normal independent countries are and do.
But until then… pre iScotland is where we’re at.
Hi Petra, thanks for your earlier reply in general, hmm it was probably not intended but your comment could come across as being maybe a wee bitty mocking, but I’ll take it all in good taste nonetheless, ps I agree with your excellent rule number three, cheers again.
Bonnie Scotland X.
Petra.
I know I can be a wind up merchant (petra dish etc) but, I genuinely respect you as a person. It’s all lighthearted with me. You have a lot to offer and I genuinely enjoy reading your posts.
This Rock character is a proper weirdo who would have had his puss rapped back in the day for this level of creepiness. The way he is stalking you is uncalled for and unacceptable.
Although Stu is highly unlikely to give a shit about my point of view, I am with Liz on it and you can include my name too. I’ve watched this wee halfwit continually harass you and it’s time for the proverbial line in the sand here.
@ Rock
You need to get a firm grip son. Hassling the ladies here is bad form and it needs to end – pronto.
@ Petra please don’t rise to the bait he’s only trying to undermine your confidence ,everyone values your input and support , don’t be offended when I say you’re like NANA a national TREASURE
Morning.
Today’s leading cover…
link to thenational.scot
link to twitter.com
William Wallace @ 3.07
That’s very decent of you sir. Thank you.
I am sure the Rev didn’t say what he did to Petra so that Rock can throw it in her face tonight and ( if memory serves) it wasn’t the first time.
For one poster to keep a record on another to use in this way is I think out of order.
I hope no matter what very few if any will engage him again anyway!
Morning Cactus
Did you see tweet 11 from your National Link?
Apparently Scottish shopper’s are not spending on black Friday….they are sayin it’s too early!
Looks like we set the bar on that one and everyone knows that this is really just…the Mas of X….how much of a trend setter are you!!!
I think the REV and Mr Baird have covered the subject fully.
The National is a platform those who believe in self determination didn’t have in 2014. You won’t like or agree with all those it gives space to, but you will agree with and accept their vote when it matters. You won’t much like their publisher, but unless you have several million quid to burn as a previously undiscovered pro indy publisher, market access, a distribution network, a press hall with capacity and a willing editorial staff, then you’re kinda low on options.
In this world it’s rare that you get something for nothing in my experience. You have to compromise. You have to be willing to compromise, in order to find common ground and reach a mutually acceptable and beneficial goal.
A great many interested parties would deny you that voice, that platform. If you’re in any doubt about what we’re up against, just bear in mind that the unionist media and political class would deny you any voice whatsoever. They desire/demand your complete silence and compliance. They enjoyed 100% control of the mainstream media, the narrative and its saturation. With it, they scraped over the line in 2014. Today? Not so much. That won’t stop them from attempting to silence every voice, deny you any platform, any access to others who may be more open to persuasion today.
Had just one mainstream publisher, one title, one editorial room come out fighting in our corner…. might be we’d be looking at Brexit from some distance today and thinking ‘dodged one’.
There were some great thinkers and writers in the meeja who, if not openly pro indy, certainly were willing to gives us a hearing. There were others who were quite openly pro indy, but not enough and not in one place with a platform to air their views freely and regularly. What we would have given for just one title during the worst of those days.
To lose even a single platform only benefits one cause here. It removes a visible route of access for the undecided or wavering and that can only please those who want you silenced and back in that box. It’s not enough to have a healthy digital footprint. Not everyone does the twatter thingy or goes wandering around the interwebby for information. Why do you think Mr Salmond is attempting to make inroads into the media world on both broadcast and print media fronts, hmmm?
Worth remembering, that those supportive of the establishment don’t do democracy. They don’t like questions. They won’t accept your vote or welcome a differing opinion or narrative. They certainly won’t accept your rights and your freedom to choose.
I’d say that today, you have a choice denied you three years ago. You can choose to use your voice or lose it.
@ Liz
It’s creepy and a form of bullying isn’t it?
I’m not trying to undermine women in any way by stepping up and getting that wee halfwit told as I firmly believe that any woman on here would run rings around that clown without any help from us guys.
The thing is the women here contribute so much and they just don’t deserve to have to put up with this unsolicited bully boy shit. Boy needs telling.
One_Scot says:
24 November, 2017 at 4:29 pm
If anyone from the National is reading this I would drop the line ‘The Newspaper that supports an Independent Scotland’
I’m sure Unionists would agree with you. I’m quite certain the entire British establishment would be absolutely delighted if we all concealed our support for independence. It would suit them fine if the Yes movement were completely invisible and totally silent.
Aye! Bin those badges, folks! Tear down the posters! Put away your placards! And for goodness sake don’t ever mention the “I” word! It’s so obvious now that somebody has pointed it out. The way to win the campaign for… you-know-what… is to keep the campaign secret. The mistake we’ve all been making is talking about it. Imagine thinking we could win people over that way!
Nice one!
William Wallace @ 5.03
You don’t undermine woman in any way by stepping up and supporting them when you think their right William.
That’s just being ….as I said ..decent..
Peter A Bell @ 5.08
I don’t think that’s what one_scot ment.
I took it to mean that some people may instantly reject the National because of that line and we need to reach them too.
The line isn’t necessary for people who already support Indy we all know that the National supports it!
I do wonder though, if removing it could backfire during the Indyref 2 campaign,because that’s when people will be looking for information about both Yes and No,and that’s when having the banner still there could come into it’s own.
So it would take some thought….
But its no a bad idea and certainly no a suggestion that we should campaign on the down low I don’t think anybody was suggesting that.
@ Liz
I’m not trying to be the shining knight or anything (I mean I have plenty faults of my own) but, I have watched him pull this crap with Petra over the last few weeks and I think it is genuinely out of order.
It’s all well and good if he has a contrary opinion and wants to play devils advocate or incite debate but, he is targeting folk in a typical playground bully boy way. Obviously it is Stu’s site (I appreciate he is quite busy fighting the good fight and this stuff is easily missed) and it’s not really my place to dictate what is and is not acceptable but, I do think Rock needs pulling up on it.
I think he mistakes folks kindness for weakness and targets them on that basis. He has gone after the most amicable and peaceable of folk on here. Women and Men. Like yourself, I think it’s time we stood up and made Stu aware or got Rock told collectively that it’s simply not on and that he will be challenged on it.
How Rock responds to that will demonstrate what sort of guy he actually is. Right now he is coming across as a bit of a bully.
William Wallace @ 5.52
I agree with you William… and there is nothing wrong with being a supportive friend…. Which as a man you will do in the way men do,and you shouldn’t ever apologize for it.
I don’t think that Rock actually can be pulled into line or reasoned with.
Mainly because I suspect that he has some degree of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Having spent some time helping a young family friend get away from her “Narc” I learned a we bit about them.
While I am no expert Rock certainly fits the profile.
Anyhoo..
That’s how I view him and that why I follow the no contact route.
I know naught and care less whither he is or isn’t but Nobody Gaslights me after I notice.
But like you I do think he has caused enough disruption to draw it to the Rev’s attention.
But having said that if he got flung out he would mibbi just come back under another name.
At least we know what to expect when he post’s as Rock..
I guess it’s really up to Petra and the what to do is for the Rev
I am glad I don’t have to decide …
Oh and just FYI.
There’s nothing wrong with being a Knight in Shining Armour either…..as long as you don’t think we are all going to start calling you Sir William Wallace!! LoL
@the previous 47% of Glasgow no voters ~
People
Make
Mistakes
Be a ‘Now Yes voter’.
Hey The National ~
Do you do any merch?
T shirts
Beanie hats
Umbrellas
Start a crowdfund, spread your message.
People like perks.
Peter A Bell, you have missed the point completely. Not sure if you are just being facetious, or you’re just not as clever as I thought you were.
Rock maybe has been cut off.
Hasn’t appeared as usual with the St Therea nonsense. Illogical.
Technical difficulties for Radio Scotland getting thru to oor Alison live in Switzerland there.
Here’s the cricket.
How sporting.
Absolutely.
re- change strap line ? agreed
ditch loki……. defo
re giving stu a column. agreed
re Chick McGregor, occasionally the national to print an issue for the yes groups to deliver, good idea, good for the national and good for the yes campaign.
re- RP and RJS about writers block and time pressures for article dead lines,… aye, right enough, if ye burn the candle at baith ends, ye’ll no last the wik 🙂
how about a weekly guest column for historians? god knows we need to counter the havers from neil oliver.
Links
link to news.gov.scot
link to news.gov.scot
There are two further new articles on the site
Taking back control
and
Brexit: Crucial Regulatory Challenges for the UK
Catch-22 Looms Whether the EU27 Agree Brexit Trade Talks or Not
link to scer.scot
link to itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com
link to alynsmith.eu
link to holyrood.com
link to theferret.scot
link to livestream.com
link to zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk
link to evolvepolitics.com
Sammy Wilson (DUP) has just been promoted to a place on the Privy Council. Could I recommend that folks read this – in full – to see who the Tory Govt have given this position to
link to twitter.com
Think Brexit negotiations are going badly? It’s about to get a whole lot worse
link to archive.is
link to politico.eu
link to irishtimes.com
link to irishlegal.com
link to euractiv.com
link to catalannews.com
link to rt.com
This, from @mrjamesob, on Boris Johnson and Brexiteers is epic.
Video here
link to twitter.com
link to theintercept.com
Morning everyone with a special mention for Liz g, (Sir) William Wallace, Thepnr, RJS and twathater. Thanks a million for the supportive posts folks and good advice which I’m taking XXXXX
@ Cactus …. “Wee bitty mocking.” No I thought your post / suggestions were great Cactus and the rest just typifies my lousy sense of humour, lol.
And back to the subject matter. Let’s all support the daily newspaper, the ONLY one, that supports us. If we want our Independence it’s as simple as that.
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
Glasgow to be transformed into one of the leading destinations in Europe
link to archive.is
link to uk.businessinsider.com
link to thecanary.co
Thanks for the great links Nana! THe National give Nana an editor job, asap:D
I’m agreeing with Peter Bell.
I appreciate the tagline might put off a genuine neutral undecided, (if there is such a thing), but I’m in the what you see is what you get camp.
I like the National, and it suits me fine that it’s open and clear, and unapologetic about where it stands.
Build it, and they will come.
For me, the more alarming thing that grabbed my attention was the slump in sales consistent with the SNP’s perceived hiccup and dissipated momentum at May’s general election. Cautious to point it out, but we haven’t really been on the front foot ever since. I utterly detest this insipid “let’s wait for Brexit” philosophy. I think it is a dangerous and perilously narrow strategy.
I seem to remember Spitting Image commenting that their Margaret Thatcher puppet was a grotesque and evil caricature, but it produced a bizarre and unfathomable paradox that people started “warming” to the monster. They couldn’t have made her any more evil, but it was having an inverse effect in her popularity. The caution I would warn against is peoples’ reactions can be unpredictable, but being perceived as weak and indecisive is neither an election winner nor momentum gatherer.
Theresa May is no Margaret Thatcher, but she is a PM content to roll back standards on sentient respect for animals while advocating for fox hunting. She is a Remainer who is content to be in the driving seat for Brexit. The Tories are beyond ridicule and caricature, but for every normal person appalled by that there seems to be one or more delusional lunatic emboldened into stepping forward to support the madness. There be crazies all around us.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread, but find the Tories are already in there waiting for them with the kettle on.
Such is my personal lack of understanding regarding the SNP strategy that everything I say about it ends up being critical. But apart from staying silent, what else is there to actually go on? Don’t other people see it? The collapse in sales for the National post General Election reflected a big hurt in momentum, and we don’t seem to be doing much to reassert ourselves or seize any initiative.
I know, I know, “don’t panic, wait until we see the Brexit deal” – Well I’m not panicked, but Scotland is like a supertanker that you cannot turn on a sixpence. I hate to point it out, but if the winning strategy is to be like Captain Hopper’s strategy with the USS Missouri – full steam in the wrong direction with AC/DC playing full volume, then drop the anchor and “handbrake turn” the battleship into perfect firing position… You do know that’s in the movies right, and they don’t actually make anchor chains, (or ships’ bows for that matter), that strong don’t you?
And I forgot… A wee hello and get well soon to Smallaxe.
Woah Rock throws a tantrum. Look Rock, the paper is a business, a business venture, its not an act of altruism, if it doesnt make profit, it’s shut down. Its that capitalist simple, we are a capitalist culture, make money from your business, or sink.
Papers do make a lotta mullah too ofcourse Rock, but tis only in teamGB where assorted journos have become this farce union’s brilliant political minds, arbiters, political opinion formers, nae THE politico giants of our time, seated in various BBC gimp network sparkly mausoleum studios, desperately trying to make our “democracy” go the way their filthy rich tax dodger bosses want it to. All to sell ad space.
Only in teamGB? certainly in the EU it is. Murdoch changed the world of newspapers completely, with his politics and his perverts eye for topless young girls, and hiring hard core tory bootboys like Ligger Neil, Kelvin Mackenzie, Trevor Kavanagh. It got Snatcher Thatcher in and kept the whole Thatcher circus rolling.
Here we are today, shackled to England, out of the EU, swirling down the UKOK shitter and we’ll be told we’re having a lovely time too.
Calm down Rock, say hello to all the boys at the 77th:D
Good morning Heedtracker lol. I’m afraid my first act would be to lock Cat Boyd in a cupboard with someone who does actually know the facts about devolution, oil, taxation, well just about everything really until she learnt fact from fiction.
I’d best stick to copying and pasting here for as long as Rev Stu allows me to.
Nana , I second that and want to see you in action!
Thanks for the links Nana. I normally try and read through them all before I go out. Not today as I’m too busy. Xmas and all that, lol. However I’ve taken a look at the Sammy Wilson link and see that another monster has joined the privileged, all powerful cabal. It just beggars belief that some Scots are seemingly happy to continue being ruled over by a disfunctional, narcissistic Tory party that we didn’t vote for, over 800 unelected parasites in the House of Lords and now this. It’s absolutely terrifying to say the least and to think we Scots are paying a share of the £1 billion (and the rest) blackmail bung to the DUP. What do the decent minded people of Northern Ireland think of this? What’s Ruth Davidson got to say about it? Anyone in the MSM up for asking her? If not what about the Leonard’s and Dugdale’s of this world who are determined to keep us shackled to this horrendous Union?
“I seem to remember Spitting Image commenting that their Margaret Thatcher puppet was a grotesque and evil caricature, but it produced a bizarre and unfathomable paradox that people started “warming” to the monster. They couldn’t have made her any more evil, but it was having an inverse effect in her popularity.”
Thatcher succeeded because her and her crew made London and the south east rich beyond their wildest dreams. Again, its that simple. They were lucky, their demented tory arses were saved by two fundamentals, giant not Scots oil and gas revenues, all pumped into the south of England and London and EU membership.
All over now?
Thatcherite shitheads won but it took a lifetime to really see the fruits of English capitalism today, where a London two up two down will set you back £1 million, in working class housing areas of London they couldn’t give away 40 years ago.
This is why they can never let go of Scotland, we’re an integral part of the London and south east economic edifice. And it all may be about to collapse.
You are a gifted editor Nana!
I think Cat Boyd is a very clever individual. She’s read Murdoch’s stuff her whole life, like the rest of us, and then she’s spotted a hole in the Scottish press market, the I am a proud Scotbut hole, where she can make money from stuff like “I am a very proud YES vote, but I vote Corbyn” and “I am proud European but I will abstain…”
Clever.
I wont do the patronise women thing and even dare to suggest that Boyd’s been coached and told what to write by, er, more mature journo minds, oh no:D
That John McDonnell should shut his face. His continual liars about Scotland. It’s like they are from outer space. Corbyn is the same.
The abstainers, They could have brought the Tories down and ended austerity. Like the SNP are trying to do. Not supported the Tories through the Lobbies to vote,
What a condescending liar. Just an absolute check.
Their economic policies are nonsense, They do not add up. They should raise more in tax but cut the waste of money expenditure. On Hickley Point, HS2, Trident and Heathrow. There are far cheaper feasible alternatives, Increased investment in the rail services in the North of England and Scotland, where journey times take twice as long because of lack of investment. To cut rail journey times throughout the UK. To compete with flight times. Less flights going to Heathrow needed. Contributing to expenses and congestion.
HS2 does not have the population density to make it economical. A flawed business case. Deliberately? Journey times throughout Britain will take longer. Longer to Scotland. People will have to change trains to make onward journeys.
Advanced booking rail journeys are much cheaper and go right to the City centres. No need for additional travel for connection. More regional international flights go right though without connections. No expense of overnight stays etc. There are more international flights from Scotland.
Two Tidal barrages are much cheaper and safer than nuclear. They were going to build on at the Humber. £9Billion. It was cancelled as too expensive. Two tidal barrages would cost £20Billion produce more energy than nuclear £100Billion? The last nuclear power station built in Finland (France) was 7 years late and cost twice as much estimated. 5 times more than renewables.
These waste of money non mandated project are costing £30Billion of borrowed money a year. There are better feasible alternatives. Cost £15Billion?
The Tories have cut essential services £13Billion a year. Since 2010. Cut £4Billion a year from the NHS from 2015 to 2020. Cut £6Billion from education. (£3Billion they will not get back -student loans but saddled young people with debt). £3Billion a year welfare cuts from vulnerable people. £13Billion.
Brexit is an absolute disgrace. How can the Tories keep on doing it. Running the economy down. So they can tax evade. A bunch of totally useless incompetents. They are criminals. Killing off their own voters, The elderly. Westminster caused the worst migration crisis in Europe since 11WW which led to increased migration. It was their fault. Why don’t they take responsibility for what they did instead of blaming others.
Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Thatcher set up the tax havens. HMRC not fit for purpose. The Tory royals are even at it. Supporting charity? Their extravagant lifestyle. Supposed to be impartial but totally interfering. Getting £Millions more which could have help vulnerable people. For some people enough is never enough. Totally greedy.
The Union is costing Scotland £Billions of mismanagement and misappropriation. Westminster totally ignorant incompetence.
The STV and D’Hondt systems are a disgrace. Not about PR but introduced to give unionists 5 votes against the SNP one. Just another unionist racket. To ruin the Scottish economy. Useless, ignorant incompetent bastard unionist Parties. They can’t count or read a balance sheet. They believe in eternal war and confrontation. Cutting off their nose to spite their face. Lying their pockets with embezzled, tax evaded public money.
Turn off BBC, Dimbleby, Oliver or any programme that give offence. There are plenty of alternatives and the internet. People are getting the message. SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Still going strong. Keep up the good work. No squabbling. No ‘little red hen’ doubters. Another IndyRef is coming soon. It must be won for the sake of the vulnerable and the world economy. Be ready. It just needs the final push. For a better future.
Scotland’s voice now being heard all around the world. Thanks to Alex Salmond. What a great Statesman. The unionists bastards don’t like it one bit. Dugdale is an affront to Scotland but needs the money, to indirectly for the Independence cause. Go to it Stu. Get them back for the lies. They do not like it one bit.
For goodness sake National. Give Rev Stu a column on the facts and figures. The truth. Get off the fence scared to give offence, Go to it. To be the go to alternative, Tommy Sheridan as well. He understands the facts and figures. Two Ist class degrees. A great orator.
@Petra
Well he’s in the party of power now and his boss is acting the part. She’s ‘extremely confident’ as she’s ‘king maker’ for the moment
The DUP is gearing up to address the UK, not just Northern Ireland
link to archive.is
The DUP don’t get the money until the power sharing regime is up and running again. It probably was just a bribe for their usual votes, Blackmail etc, The DUP and Tories are good at it and illegal killings.
They probably will never see the money it will be rolled over in some other cuts.
Sin Fein could make an occasional appearance to take down the Tories but more Tories would just replace them. That is why they stay away. Ireland could always vote to reunite. Demographic changes. IR is now standing up to Westminster. Want the border question solved before any agreement. Independence in the EU makes countries stronger. Especially smaller ones.
The Tories are on a hiding to nothing, as the economy tanks. The majority in the UK want to stay in the EU and it is increasing. The Tories will negotiate less EU rights and decision making for more money. They will lose the rebate. There is nothing surer. Then try to claim it as a great victory aided by the non Dom tax evading Press, MSM. So they can tank the economy and continue to unfairly tax evade. Parasites.
A few more links as there is no cartoon [yet]
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
The judicial review into the Vote Leave donations may not be the end of the Electoral Commission’s legal troubles. THREAD
link to twitter.com
link to politico.eu
Gordon Brown and the TOBA that shafted the Navy
link to archive.is
I wrote a constructive but somewhat critical post re the National last night.
I stand by the comments… but I went and bought a copy this morning. There is lots of good stuff in it – particularly like the informative analysis by Kirsty Hughes and the entertaining, well-written piece by Kirsty Strickland. Well done all, I’ll buy it again.
Okay – so I bought The National (Scotland’s Real Champion) for the first time since the 2016 Holyrood election. I felt they were way too happy to push RISE which, in my opinion, took sufficient numbers of votes away from the SNP for it to lose its overall majority. Wasn’t happy at all and I sincerely hope that will be a lesson learned for them i.e. you can support the ideal of an Indy Scotland without overtly supporting ANY political party.
But that’s by-the-by. Went into WH Smiths in Central Station this morning. What a total palaver to by a copy of The National. The bar code on the paper almost brought down the entire WH Smiths computer system. In short – The NAtional bar code was rejected, didnae work. I asked the girl “Why’s that then?” Nae answer.
Two minutes later I got the paper. But if that is happening with every purchase of The National in WH Smiths, it will surely piss a lot of people off and a fair number of lost sales I would imagine.
A word in someone’s lug methinks, Mr National bloke.
Nice display of English tory press, taking just another long hard weewee all over its Scotland region. When will us Scots learn, we’re really not up to the task of running Scotland, a wet fart at the Graun says so, must be true.
Via beeb Scotland gimp network, how long have we been relentlessly bombarded by Colonel Ruth and chums, all raging away SNP Scots gov must start using the powers they’ve been very kindly “given?
link to archive.is
“Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tory leader, this week warned there “is a growing tax gap between people in Scotland and elsewhere in the UK”.
Its only tomorrows fish and chip wrappers, right?
The more light shined in the DUP the better. It shows them up for being bigots, racists and misogists and criminals breaking UK Law at every opportunity. Part of exclusive non equal or fair p, supposed to be secret organisations. Non democratic. Brainwashed from the day they are born.
Wasting public money like there is no tomorrow. Totally overfunded and subsidised for their votes at Westminster. Destroying the UK economy. Spiteful, venomous parasites. Snakes. May had better watch her back. A sting in the tail. Some tale. It is not beyond comprehension they will take her down. They are accomplished at causing troubles in the Troubles, They have had decades of experience doing it. Most of them should be in jail. Ireland wanted Home Rule/Independence. After appalling Westminster unionist mismanagement. They got illegal partition 1923. Universal Suffrage 1928. Five years too late. They can vote to reunite. Demographics.
The National’s strapline on its front page stating it supports independence should stay.
Two reasons.
Firstly removing it now will be the cue for headlines in the rest of the MMS that support for independence is waning and independence is off the table. Their ‘evidence’ being the removal of the strapline. A circular argument that can be endlessly spun to the detriment of The National and it’s continued viability.
Secondly, removing the strapline about supporting independence does sort of suggest you might be a wee bit ashamed of doing such a thing. What is wrong with declaring you support independence whether as an individual, an organisation or a newspaper? Declare it loud and bold.
Peter Bell is spot-on, the time to take supporting independence off the strapline is when we get independence!
Anent “Supports Scotland!” a meaningless term, Ruth Davidson, Mundell, Dugdale, Fraser, mebbe not Fraser! doubtless all claim to “Support Scotland!
The great thing about the National is the letters page, mindless drivel, which sadly appears here every day, is edited out. Dundee contributor named Hinnmers particularly good!
Half the voters don’t even understand STV or D’Hondt. Some think they have to vote for other parties. Cancelling out their own vote. It was only brought in without consent to aid the unionist chances. It is nothing to do with PR or fairness. Just another load of unionist fecking pish. To keep some 3rd rate unionists on a list so the bastards can feck up Scotland. 5 votes to one, The usual. In Westminster 10 votes to one. No Democracy. Why Holyrood came into being. Only to have vows and lies being cheated out of additional powers. Any electoral system that fools the voters is not a competent one. Especially voting in a bunch of liars out to ruin the economy.
The SNP should get another majority bring back FPTP and get rid of the 3rd rate bastards. Scotland would be Independent now if it was not for these losing chancers,
They do not hold to any Mandate in any case. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Killing and maiming their own citizens and others all over the world.
What is wrong with declaring you support independence whether as an individual, an organisation or a newspaper? Declare it loud and bold.
If it gets the sale, that’s what its all about. We need to break away from the idea that this is all somehow different from any other business.
Its really not.
Alexa, what is the UK fourth estate or the UK estates?
“Originally there were three estates: the first estate was the clergy, the second estate the nobility, and the third estate the commoners. The fourth estate is the press, and was coined in 1837, reflecting their increasing prominence and power.”
@Ian Brotherhood says: 24 November, 2017 at 3:05 pm:
“I wonder if Robert Peffers or any other Wingers might want to cast an eye over this and share any thoughts, perhaps on O/T.
Reason I post it is because we’ve discussed The Remembrancer on here before, and that role threw up some interesting constitutional questions such as ‘who the fuck is that?’.”
Sorry, Ian, I had not read your original post as I’m over my head in other matters just now so am only briefly dropping in and out of Wings. I did write a reply and looked up and quoted several sources.
For some reason, best known to itself, the comment never made it to Wings.
London itself is very, very complex in what seems, deliberately, confusing and secretive matters.
Here is your starter for one:-
link to londonist.com
Then when you get over that, “One”, here is another thought –
What about, “The city of Westminster”?
link to londonist.com
And as if that were not enough confusion :-
? Major and local towns and cities within Greater London:
Wembley, United Kingdom
Wimbledon, United Kingdom
Croydon, United Kingdom
Staines, United Kingdom
Kingston upon Thames, United Kingdom
Sutton, United Kingdom
Romford, United Kingdom Harrow, United Kingdom
Northolt, United Kingdom
Sunbury, United Kingdom
Uxbridge, United Kingdom
Richmond, United Kingdom
Stratford, United Kingdom
Greenwich, United Kingdom.
Note these are NOT just local areas or districts of the whole of, “London”, as for example Leith is incorporated as an integral district of Edinburgh, but they are towns and cities in their own right.
Here though is the significant point as far as the ONLY other Kingdom in the United Kingdom is concerned or as the three other countries in the United Kingdom are concerned.
Ancient historic laws, from even Roman times, are still being forced upon the rest of the United Kingdom, even when these laws were introduced long before there was a country of England, a kingdom of England, a kingdom or country of Scotland and before both Wales & Ireland became part of the Kingdom of England.
Which may explain for you why the Westminster Establishment thinks such as the Magna Carta, and the so called Union of the Crowns 1603, applies retrospectively to Scotland in spite of Scotland being an independent kingdom before both the Union of the Crowns and the Treaty of Union.
It seems to me that, “The City of London”, sees itself as having annexed everything else in the British Isles and has succeeded to brainwashed the World to accept their version of history by the deliberate misuse of the English Language.
It may just explain why the Unionist cabal think they are the, “British Government”, when in practice, they are the de facto Parliament of England a.k.a. The City of London”.
Confused?
Aye! Seems you are meant to be.
Pensioners for Indy conference
link to youtube.com
@Robert Peffers –
Thanks for that, and the links.
I wonder how many of those who shout loudest about their glorious ‘United Kingdom’ and spend their every waking minute ramming butchers’ aprons in abody’s faces have even the vaguest awareness of any of this.
I’m reducing this to the absurdly simple, as much for my benefit as anyone’s, but it seems that the ‘UK’ is a business run by a ‘foreign’ power which conceals itself in plain view under layers of pomp, legalese and extra-special handshakes? If that is the case, who in their right mind could knowingly support it?
One of our members buys the national to place on the table in the Library for the public to read.
He and I find it hilarious when the Tory voter who comes in to read the courier and do the soduko then places the other papers on top of the national to hide it.
Itself defeating for the Tory, because there are some people who come in to read the papers and will read them all including the national.
If there’s been 900 issues I’ve probably bought around 870. It is too concentrated on politics. They need to bite the bullet and become more tabloid-y. Feature more “stuff that happens”. If there’s been a sad tragedy in Scotland then make that the front page. It doesn’t look good to be so out of touch with what matters to the average man/woman in the street and lead with some politics story that only politics geeks like us are bothered about. They need to reach out more and I agree they should definitely ditch the supporting indy strapline.
Sports coverage is better but still falls short. I’m all for publicising the women’s game but not at the expense of the men’s game. They don’t seem to care much for the bottom two tiers of our game, like their stablemate the Sunday Herald. More obsessed by English football.
Finally, two price rises in a year, going from 60p to 80p is really pushing it and testing my loyalty. It is not worth 80p.
Mr Peffers@10.55,
It comes as no surprise London/Greater London and the South-East shires of Rule Britannia, have SUCKED the life out of what could have been a great country.
I have been watching for years how the said parts of the “Island” have stepped and Sha* on the rest of us.(No one listened to me 30 years ago)
Its not just Scotland who gets shafted, by the “City” its anything north of Watford, I have seen it with my own eyes.
This is one of the main reasons England and Wales voted Brexit, a country for generations totally scunnered with the greed, and corruption of its citizens, with the Empire flag getting waved in the faces of the gullible, when there is any chance of the citizens rising.
Fortunately we in Scotland will have another chance at breaking the stranglehold that has been on us for centuries, whether Scotland fully opens its eyes for the next one? we will see, if not the country can sit back and bathe in its own sh*te.
Londoners are complaining about the City of London privilege. A City secretive authority within a City, with privilege powers. London votes 50/50 Tory/ Labour. Slightly more Labour. Labour Mayor. It is the Midlands/North that vote predominately Tory. A great swade right across the landscape.
Manchester are complaining May is not giving them enough funds to cover the territorist atrocities. How will that go. Stop voting Tory. .
Scottish Unionism is the arrogance of historical ignorance and intellectual laziness.
The English variety is quite the opposite.
Suspended Scottish Deputy Police Chief Constable Bernard Higgins, has come under fire from some quarters.
The backlash came as complaints were made that Higgins, incorporated the Union Jack flag into Police Scotland’s politically neutral uniforms worn by armed officers.
Replying to enquires as to why the flag is now incorporated complainers were told, it represents a police charity in England. When asked why other police charities logos were not included on the non-political uniforms, no viable explaination was given.
Flags or insignia, are not covered by Police Scotland uniform regulations.
The recent flood of Union Jackery branding, wrapping, logos etc, flooding Scotland appears to be growing exponentially.
Extracts from a Mr Ford’s long letter via the National newspaper.
The past few days has seen quite an upsurge in other countries commenting on their future trading relationships with UK post-Brexit. None of them are looking good, despite the Brexiteers having told us that countries would be falling over themselves to make deals.
Australia and New Zealand complaining about being forced to split their quotas between EU and UK. India saying UK must take in more migrants as part of any trade deal (oh, the irony). The Irish situation threatens to collapse any EU deal too.
I am hoping that sometime soon, Nicola is going to say, “Brexit is a farce. We’ve tried to talk to Westminster about damage limitation, but they seem hell-bent on pressing the self-destruct button. We can’t stand back any longer. We will hold Indy Ref 2 in 2018”.
@Scotgov re Andy-B’s post,
Its not Police UK (with Union Flags on uniforms). Its Police Scotland and if anything, uniforms should have a saltire affixed.
It rather looks as if the ways and means the Romans used to subdue the ancient Britons of South Britain are still in use in a slightly modified form today.
The Romans did not directly govern South Britain but they Romanised the former Briton leaders and set them up with their own Roman Villas to run the same areas they did before the Romans came. The exception being the military and Rome provided that.
The Roman overlord directed the Romanised Britons and provided the military to make it stick. Then Rome set up a tax, customs and excise system very much like we have today.
They taxed the southern British peoples and made them pay tax upon all exports and imports. Of course these were the products those Britons had to sell or tax from the produce the Britons were ready to pay to import. The very first Roman Walls in the entire Roman Empire to protect that system were the Gask Ridge and Gask Road that began in Perthshire and Angus:-
:-
link to theromangaskproject.org
The Gask Ridge defences were then extended right across North Britain as the Antonine Wall before being abandoned and replaced by Hadrian’s Wall.
Why, though, would the North Britons want to invade South Britain? They were not overpopulated and they had plentiful recourses of all they required? Much like today in fact where Scotland doesn’t need the South Britons resources but the South Britons very much depend upon the North British resources. Seems to me that Hadrian built his wall as a customs barrier rather than as a protection from raiding North Britons.
So where did all that Roman roads network lead to? The answer is very plain – to Londinium which was, and still is, the central clearing house for the import, export taxation and regulation of Britons. The system set up by the Roman invaders has actually changed little throughout our known history.
Londinium made the rules, Londinium imposed the rules and Londinium re-wrote the history and used the propaganda that has really not changed very much through the centuries.
Now it seems the Square Mile in Londinium may have finally found itself powerless in the face of a social media that is very much harder to control and fool. The City of London will not, though, ever give up trying and must be hauled, kicking, screaming, scratching and biting into a real democratic system. If they do not come quietly the signs are they will find the wealth and influence of that square mile is already beginning to drain away elsewhere.
Nana.
Thanks for that link to Michael Rosen’s twitter reaction to Sammy Wilson.
The Harry Enfield/Ulsterman was priceless.
And it reminded me of this from the Eighties.
Robbie Coltrane as Mason Boyne.
link to youtube.com
And the thinking behind it.
link to archive.is
I am hoping that sometime soon, Nicola is going to say, “Brexit is a farce. We’ve tried to talk to Westminster about damage limitation, but they seem hell-bent on pressing the self-destruct button. We can’t stand back any longer. We will hold Indy Ref 2 in 2018”.
Patience. Brexit’s being sold as, yes its tight but its not that bad teamGBists, look, lets all watch the cricket, whatever that is…
link to bbc.co.uk
Budget 2017: Philip Hammond hopes to prove grim forecasts wrong
Prime Minister Theresa May said the government “recognises the pressure facing ordinary families”, citing the freeze on fuel duty and increases to the personal tax allowance as measures ministers were taking.”
etc.
No mention of UKOK zone debt levels, or the latest round of giant tory gov borrowing, to keep the whole UK show rolling. Beeb gimp network, as usual working overtime to sell tory economics that are clearly going to be a UKOK tory catastrophe for a lot of people in Scotland.
” Albert Herring says:
24 November, 2017 at 5:45 pm
“The Newspaper that supports Scotland” would be much, much better, as well as being a wee bit subtle.”
Or “The National — reminding you about our future”
Maybe there could also be a satirical “woe is us” column in Internet messageboard format. I suggest “Under The Bridge” as a title. Not sure how I came up with that idea.
I took out a year-long on-line subscription. I’m living in Wales now, so I don’t have access to the paper copy. I visited family in Scotland in 2016 and 2017. During each visit I bought the print edition. In one newsagent’s The National was on the bottom shelf. and I couldn’t see it without bending down. I replaced it with the Sun and put the National on the shelf. In another newsagent’s it was hidden behind the Sun. I changed their positions.
In Hamilton Public Library, I tried to log on to Wings. The site was blocked, but Scotland in Union was accessible. I complained, and I was encouraged to write to the appropriate authority. After several weeks I received a reply telling me that they would look into the matter. I’ve heard nothing more.
I find it frustrating not to be living in Scotland, but I need to live here because my family is here.
Happy Birthday to The National! Lang may yer lum reek!
The Gask Ridge defences were then extended right across North Britain as the Antonine Wall before being abandoned and replaced by Hadrian’s Wall.
Robert the Antonine Wall came about perhaps a generation after Hadrians wall was built, say 50 years.
It looks like a colonisation process that failed after a very short period, 20 years? but they did build a few Roman style villas, before either evacuating very quickly because of the midgies, or more likely getting their Roman arses kicked out of Caledonia, by proto Scots Celts.
After that, Rome built a spectacular defence network along Hadrians Wall, that they developed and expanded into massive forts, towns, several harbours, castles, over many generations, all of which stopped dead in modern Northumbria.
If you’ve not been to Hadrian’s wall, its really worth it. It was so well built, so extensive and developed, so heavily populated, its like they just left.
What makes Scottish archaeology unique today, is the fact that there is so much of it, almost none of it is Roman and its rather well hidden and buried, for all kinds of britnat UKOK reasoning?
Wouldnt want 21st century Scots to think they had one of the world’s oldest and greatest cultural histories, would we, making their neighbour country England look very young and immature:D
And Scotland’s is one of the only countries in western Europe that did defeat the might of the Roman Empire.
As other people here have said and my favourite, The newspaper that supports Scotland.
Tonga robbed of a place in the final of the Rugby League World Cup. Overall though it was a very exciting last 20 minutes.
Next up Scotland vs Austarlia, a Rugby Union match.
Well done, Stu, for the National promo. It’s made me decide to add the hard copy to my existing digital subscription.
I’d still like to see The National cover The McCrone Report, which, when I first read it, a few years ago now, brought me to a new and sobering understanding of the true nature of the relationship between Scotland and England.
The McCrone Report is about much more than just oil. It constitutes a very powerful political document which everyone in Scotland should be made aware of but isn’t.
Don’t take my word for it, that’s why it was kept secret by Westminster for 30 years starting in 1975.
That’s why the BBC and the Press won’t touch it. That’s why no Prime Minister has ever spoken about it in public. The subject of Scottish Oil is still being suppressed by Westminster.
If the oil revenues were being used to the benefit of everyone in the UK then it would be easier to bear. But that is not happening, is it?
Scotland is up to its ears in oil, but everyday life for many is defined by austerity, low wages, unemployment, child poverty and food banks.
The benefit is almost completely denied to Scotland while wealthy politicians, shareholders and executives in the energy companies take the profits offshore to tax havens.
The National have been approached with a view to publicising The McCrone Report but so far without any action. It’s like saying you’re for Scottish Independence as long as we leave The McCrone Report out of it.
Chest clear.
I don’t comment very often on WoS, in the same way I don’t comment, nor buy The National much anymore due to being attacked by a couple of Fundy idiots who get way more credibility they should. I believe this arrogant Fundy minority cost the Independence movement a crucial 1% to 5% by turning people off, and away from yes voting.
However, Callum Baird and especially founding editor Richard Walker deserve huge respect – as does Start Campbell and Wings: for informing ordinary floating voters and non-political swing voters such as myself of the Independence arguments.
Callum hits the nail on the head…
“In order to make sure we definitely have enough copies (of The National) available, we’d need to have at least 14 (the maximum we’re likely to sell plus one) in there each day. Over the course of those five days, we’ll have given the shop 70 copies, sold 34 and wasted 39. That doesn’t make economic sense, so we need to make tough decisions based on average sales, rather than the absolute maximum. This can lead to the newspaper occasionally being unavailable.
The National is vital, but it has struggled to break through in the three years of print runs so far. However, Alex Salmond, is without a doubt a genius on these matters. He has seen the ONLY way Independence will happen is…
Much more Scottish Indy media. This is the key 5% swing demographic will get us from 45% yes to 55% yes.
Between The National and the recent masterstroke by Alex Salmond with The Scotsman, the Herculean effort to persuade the 5% swing vote has started. Royally added to by Russia and Alex Salmond’s new RT programme.
By having a fair slice of the media then the Scottish McZeitgeist may yet be moved to achieve 51%+ for yes to Indy.
However, I would venture to suggest, if The National closes, then Independence will not happen for 20 to 30 years, if at all.
Thinking laterally, – The London Evening Standard was struggling ten years ago. Same population as Scotland. Same problem with a dying newspaper.
Worth a look as the circulation of a failing London paper might help inform the direction and even salvation of a shoogly peg Scottish newborn newspaper…
2009 – London Evening Standard Circulation: 260,000.
2017 – London Evening Standard Circulation: 885,000.
Source: link to archive.is
Now, in 2017, at a time when almost all other printed newspapers are dying, this is a remarkable turnaround.
With a bitter irony, the London Evening Standard, was rescued by a child of the communist far left (Evgeny Lebedev) and is now edited by the ultra right wing austerity sado-masochist George Osborne.
My point? If The National gets to a stage where closure looms, then we have a group of people who may be willing to turn it around and make the paper a free publication.
Better still, Callum Baird, Stuart Campbell and the Richard Walkers of this world need to consider radically doing an “Alex” on The National before the financial cliff edge is reached.
Help turn The National into a free newspaper along similar business lines to the London Evening Standard. Flood every retail outlet, and hire good forensic journalists with the calibre and style of Stuart Campbell, though without the hammers!
A quality newspaper deliberately not wedded to the SNP, but balancing the pieces in a way MSM fails and in a manner that led to the creation of WoS will shift that 5% from no to yes. QED.
Short of a political tsunami, the momentum of Indy 2014 aint going to cut it in a 2020 Indyref 2.
Someone, somewhere needs to “get it”. Alex Salmond has. Indy needs more of his ilk. NOT politicians, but creative thinkers who can get ordinary voters to move from no to yes.
Good article Stu. Thanks Callum. If things ever get really sticky at The National, you know where to find me and see about transforming the title. I can’t do it, but I know a man who can 🙂 .
If the oil revenues were being used to the benefit of everyone in the UK then it would be easier to bear. But that is not happening, is it?
Scotland is up to its ears in oil, but everyday life for many is defined by austerity, low wages, unemployment, child poverty and food banks.”
Yes and its all down to, because of UK gov policy, tory and Labour, red and blue.
UK gov policy for decades has enriched a tiny class of wildly greedy people, the queen’s now worth over £60,000 million quid, and impoverished millions and millions of Brits.
You get what you vote for, is a sign that hangs upside down in Gordon Brown’s shitter, in that manse in Fife, he now enriches himself in.
Because whatever we say about SLabour socialist workers like Crash, by christ he made the rich even richer.
manandboy @ 1.59
I think the National has covers the McCrone report!
I read so much stuff and the memory is no what it was.
But I am pretty sure it did.
……….
Also someone was sayin about getting Scottish History articles in it.
It has already done that as well.
Jist sayin!
If The National did offer to give space to Stu Campbell it needn’t be burdensome for either party: a page featuring the most popular WOS post of the prevous week, and selected comments – that would be straightforward enough, eh?
😉
I work in a Convenience store. I put the National in a prime position buy it and read it everyday. Leave the strapline alone. I love all the articles and writers don’t always agree with them. But compared to other papers National has a better balance. Don’t care it’s allolitics don’t want celebs gossip horrorscopes
I’ve read a good number of these comments and concur with many.
I would drop the Independence part from front page and give Rev a column. I subscribe online and buy the odd paper to leave somewhere for others. I also subscribe to iScot magazine,which I leave at the dentists when I visit. I don’t always have time to read The National online but always click the links to give them the visitor numbers – as I do with Wings. It all helps.
Okay, as a direct result Callum’s comments I have now subscribed to 1 year digi copy.
OT from the Rev’s twitter.
Really? Where we end up in life, our ‘social role’, has a major influence on individual biology. Poverty and poor qulity environments will have a negative impact on individual health, which in turn, will be transmitted as inherited health inequalities to future generations, who’s life potential will have been blighted before their conception.
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
link to study.com
Good to hear the thousands of voices singing Flower of Scotland at Murrayfield just now.
Scotland leading 34:17 10/15 minutes to go…
Come on the Scots laddies.
44:24 now for Scotland 5 minutes to go….
Scotland 53 – Australia 24
*BLINKS and FAINTS*
Heedtracker @ 2.19
The waste of the oil revenues is the biggest financial scandal in a century.
Labour and Tory governments both spent almost every penny in giving massive tax reductions to the richest. They invested nothing in infrastructure, saved not a penny for future generations,and caused inflation to rise to 15% in the 1980s which impacted worst on the poorest.
Even if a population share of the £400 billion revenues had been spent in Scotland we could have seen some benefit, but every penny was wasted by the incompetents in Westminster.
For an alternative, see Norway, the richest country in the world. Thanks Unionists.
Just come back down to earth… wow! Well done Scotland’s rugby team. Proud of you lads.
Sweet.
OT again. Re. biology and inequality, please tell me if I’m overdoing the whitemansplaining.
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
link to journals.sagepub.com
link to cordis.europa.eu
OT again. Last one, promise.
link to tandfonline.com
“The National have been approached with a view to publicising The McCrone Report but so far without any action. It’s like saying you’re for Scottish Independence as long as we leave The McCrone Report out of it”.
This is precisely the kind of thing, and also specifically the undoubted pushing for RISE at the expense of the SNP, (though with the National readership being on the low side it’s debatable if that made any actual difference to the result) that made me feel conflicted about the National. And that’s apart from the repugnant Cat Boyd. Using the “we need a range of voices” schtick just doesn’t cut it there, Cat Boyd is a british nationalist, albeit a closet one.
Having said that though I’ve always been aware that the quality of content in the National, generally speaking, is light years ahead of its britnat rivals and for that and also because sometimes it does have great pro indy content I’m of the opinion that for the time being at least we’re better with it than without it.
The strapline issue is tricky, it should have been “the paper that supports Scotland” from the outset but it may be too late to change it now, for what should be obvious reasons.
I think they should be more confrontational towards unionism and britnats (as should the SNP itself) and should definitely consider giving the Rev a column but not one where he has to come up with something every week. I’m guessing he’s probably got quite a lot on his plate as it is without adding that kind of commitment. Oh, and someone should ask Callum Baird to answer exactly why the McCrone Report hasn’t been published in an issue set aside for free distribution? If not why not? Answer please.
Anyway I think I will make more of an effort to buy it a bit more often.
Fireproofjim says:
25 November, 2017 at 4:28 pm
Heedtracker @ 2.19
The waste of the oil revenues is the biggest financial scandal in a century.
It wasnt and is not though. North Sea oil and gas is virtually the last UK big heavy industry today, outside arms manufacturing
UK oil and gas revenues were exploited by Thatcher’s gov to pay for their deindustrialisation of the UK and the big dole costs involved.
It was then used to completely modernise the south of England’s transport infrastructure, enabling England to become an integral and booming part of the whole EU economic production and supply setup, what they’ve just flounced out of, for no actual economic reason. Look at Heathrow, Scots oil and gas paid to make Heathrow a world class airline hub, with world class transport infrastructure the enabler.
Scotland was and is a total irrelevance to the tories, red and blue, a nuke missile dump with some annoying uppity politicos but otherwise, Scotland’s a mere region of their united kingdom of toryboy rule.
Its how Scots like it too, because they’re safer and more secure, said big fat guys like Blair MacSaladodger. He’s made a lot of money out of the UK too.
Have you? If so, it might reflect on your attitude to Scottish democracy too, just like Blair.
” Democratic Unionist leader tells party conference that Westminster MPs will not agree to special status for Northern Ireland “
While not very knowledgeable about NI politics, I can’t believe pushing for a hard border with the Rep is a vote winner. Yes, there will be some who take the view that being ‘fully British’ trumps all else. But there must be a lot of ‘British’ in NI who will see that special status is the only compromise to allow them to keep their ‘Britishness’.
The alternatives to the special status of being in EU customs union would be a hard border, Irish reunification, or keeping the whole UK in the single market. The DUP, like their Tory chums, need to become realistic about where they stand.
The handling of Brexit – no planning, no target outcome, no joined up thinking – has so far been the biggest political fck up since the UK was created!
link to archive.is
There was an SNP march in Stirling today to end universal credit. Drew Hendry, SNP MP for inverness ,Badenoch and Strathspey spoke powerfully about the impact this disgraceful Tory policy has had on people in his constituency, now being rolled out in Stirling with similar ‘teething problems’.
Here is a short article he wrote for the New Statesman on the subject.
link to newstatesman.com
Not satisfied with the r*pe clause, Tories have now dreamt up Universal Credit.
This is 2017 not Dickensian times.
Drew Hendry, has horrific tales to tell of it’s impact in his area and has tabled a 10 minute debate next week on the matter and also and other motions.
Last week he was laughed at in Parliament and accused of ‘scaremongering’ whilst describing some of the true cases in which he has had to intervene.
Where does the dividing line between right wing and fascism start?
heedtracker @ 1.19 pm
The Antonine wall was built before Hadrian’s Wall.
“”The Romans first invaded Britain in 55 BC but did not launch a real and lasting invasion until AD 43.
Some 30 years later they reached Scotland, when Julius Agricola launched his campaign in the north in the AD 70’s. By both land and sea, it took only seven years for him to take control of much of Scotland. Some forts were built along what would later become the line of the Antonine Wall, while others were constructed along the Gask Ridge in Perthshire.
“From the mid AD 80’s troops were slowly withdrawn from Scotland as they were needed elsewhere in the empire, and around AD 122 the Emperor Hadrian consolidated the northern frontier at the Tyne-Solway isthmus with the construction of Hadrian’s Wall. On Hadrian’s death, in July AD 138, Antoninus Pius (reigned AD 138–61) succeeded to the throne.””
link to antoninewall.org
Legerwood 10.37am. At first I agreed with toning it down to2.the newspaper that supports Scotland. But you know what,Your right,bugger it,SHOUT it from the rooftops,We want independence.
…attended pensioners for Independence today…I’m the one with the grey hair in the video 🙂 🙂
Legerwood says:
25 November, 2017 at 5:24 pm
heedtracker @ 1.19 pm
The reason its thought that the Antonine wall came after Hadrian’s is purely down to dating archaeology. It looks like Hadrian’s wall may have been abandoned completely, as the Roman colonisation process continued, up through the British isles.
Its thought Roman colonisation of southern modern Scotland was just as successful as the rest of their Britannia conquenquest, crushing military defeats of barbarians, successful siege warfare of barbarian redoubts, paying off the local chiefs, enslaving everyone they could catch and so on.
link to archaeology.co.uk
is one of several sieges sites known today.
Its possible the colonists assumed that they no longer needed a second wall as big as Hadrian’s in modern Scotland. Yet something went very wrong for Roman colonisation very quickly, along the Clyde and Forth rivers and they legged it back over Hadrians wall.
link to bbc.co.uk
Most of what little there is of Roman archeology in Scotland is all mixed up in what remains of the various land and sea Roman invasions, of Scotland, over several hundred years. There is almost no Roman domestic or civic archeology in Scotland at all and the clearest evidence of that is, there are no Roman place names anywhere in Scotland, unlike…
The scary thing is, UKIP adopted a differential consciousness to sell Brexit across the ‘classes’. The UK’s political spectrum has been ratcheted towards the far-right and is unlikely to return to center ground any time soon.
The New Right are on a mission to return us to an age of traditional, patriarchal paternalism under the paradigm of the “minimal state”. This certainly won’t help emancipate society and will undoubtedly worsen inequality and weaken social cohesion.
link to patheos.com
link to jspp.psychopen.eu
link to link.springer.com
galamcennalath @ 17:15,
The main problem for the DUP is that there is another serious player in their game, and that is the Republic of Ireland. Fully sovereign, with the rest of the EU at its back.
Retreat into a self-imposed little “British” enclave is probably the only move the DUP can realistically make. They are isolationists to their bigoted core, so they’ll be perfectly comfortable with that.
Perfectly content likewise to perpetrate the hardest of hard Brexits on NI, despite a majority there for Remain. And on us here too, if we’re stupid enough to allow ourselves to be ruled by the likes of those retrograde idiots.
One wonders just how much longer this Brexit fiasco is going to stew before it collapses into total ignominy under the weight of its own multiple contradictions.
One wonders just how much longer this Brexit fiasco is going to stew before it collapses into total ignominy under the weight of its own multiple contradictions.”
link to independent.co.uk
Apparently there are still people in Scotland who think Labour and Tories are different parties
Have they never looked at their voting histories
Another vote (if anyone is counting) to ditch the strapline. It puts off the very people who should be reading it .
I noticed how you all were loafing around, making mockery of “rock”, but then when he finally turned up and gave you all a bit of a pasting, the tears seemed to flow freely, along with a bout of “white-knighting” and a “we’re telling teacher(RevStu)” … if you dish it, then you need to be able to take it
– rock makes serious criticisms, at the very least, nor do I think his remembering of what he and others have said beforehand to be “creepy” … isn’t that the modus operandi of Wings itself ?
“outside the tent, pissing in” / “inside the tent, pissing out”?
– maybe the National is “inside the tent, just pissing”
I did buy the paper, initially, but found it a great disappointment – there are friends, enemies and “unreliable friends” – and its possible that the last is the one who can do you most harm, and bear in mind that controlled media, even ostensibly “oppositional” by deep state entities has been a standard tactic for a very long time.
Whenever I read The National I start to feel a vague sense of unease, of anxiety – and this may be the whole point of it.
– “oh, I dunno, mibbe wir better aff letting thae london gadges run the shoap for us …”
Having “we support independence” upfront is a dead-giveaway – the paper is not aimed at unionists or even undecideds – it is aimed at independence supporters, “preaching” to the converted – why? As for the “business” side of things – there cannot be one – it must lose a ton of money – all print media is doomed and to start a new newspaper seems pointless from a profit angle.
Cat Boyd is the high priestess of PC idiocy/identity politics spreading unease and anxiety from a “lefter than thou” perspective – an independent Scotland MUST become the gayest disco in the North Sea, or it will be nothing … except Scotland is mostly socially conservative, outside of certain city enclaves – and yet the National gives her a prime pulpit, turning people off in droves (- note hers was the first name mentioned in the FAQ!)
Identity politics -destroyed- the (old, real) Left, turned it into a circus, a madhouse for freaks, something with no mass appeal and electorally poisonous – those of us who can remember back to the Miners Strike of 1984 look on these childish upstarts with contempt – they stole our clothes and we don’t like it. Still, we get the last laugh – at their lack of jobs, their worthless degrees and their humongous student-debts – around 30 a dim bulb flickers over their heads … maybe … “economics”? … money stuff … jobs and wages … class … maybe we should have paid a bit more attention to that old stuff … only for them to be shouted down in turn for their thought-crimes by the new generation, who will denounce them as “fascists”, while the working class are now “racists”. Don’t let the pc idiots wreck independence as well.
– heres something to try – whenever you see “radical” as a descriptor – replace it with “stupid” and see how the rest of it scans …
“…the gayest disco in the North Sea…”
Haha!
I like the cut of your jib sail.
Scotland 53 24 Australia.
Was that achieved by pressure from the new Tory MPs?
Or by the personal intervention of Richard Leonard?
Wot? The Yoons haven’t claimed it was all their doing yet?
confused says:– heres something to try – whenever you see “radical” as a descriptor – replace it with “stupid” and see how the rest of it scans …
So you;re not that confused really, are you.
Just ask yourself a simple question, is our nascent Scottish democracy better off with or without a newspaper like The National? Is there market for maybe one more, out of what is it, 37 national and local newspapers, all ragin away as one, SNP bad, Scottish democracy is shite, you’re all scum, etc.
Its a simple answer.
Also, Rock’s a troll, endlessly repeating same ol, same ol, deliberately monstering WoS btl commentators like Mr Peffers, with the sole intention of forcing them off btl WoS.
How’s that all worked for the fcukwit, so far:D
heedtracker says:
25 November, 2017 at 5:56 pm
Legerwood says:
25 November, 2017 at 5:24 pm
heedtracker @ 1.19 pm
Apologies heedtracker, I got it the wrong way round. Read it too quickly and mixed up the Agricola and Antonine. Excitement about the Rugby – or a senior moment – take your pick.
Do those who attack “identity politics” know what they are taking about?
link to plato.stanford.edu
link to thenorthstar.info
link to quod.lib.umich.edu
Caught 5 minutes of the Celebrity thing, Boris’s Dad said Hi to Kezia and says he wouldn’t mind talking about Labour’s Brexit policies. Kezia said she would love to, perhaps he could explain it to her.
Made me smile. Not entirely sure she will get a gold star from Leonard for that despite it being a pertinent comment.
I don’t identify with certain political groups because the heteronormative narrative of microinvalidations decelebrates my inner and outer diversity. I won’t identify with them until they unlearn their oppressive behaviours and consciously excavate their privilege. IMHO.
galamcennalath says:
25 November, 2017 at 7:01 pm
Scotland 53 24 Australia.
Was that achieved by pressure from the new Tory MPs?
Or by the personal intervention of Richard Leonard?
Wot? The Yoons haven’t claimed it was all their doing yet?
Looks like it was Richard
link to imgur.com
Interesting extracts from the National, imo.
George Kerevan: “Gimmicks hide refusal to hit the growth button’ – 23/11/17.
“The bottleneck today in house construction lies with the private volume builders, who hoard land to bump up prices and profits. A 2015 investigation revealed that the UK’s biggest house builders were sitting on 600,000 plots of land with planning permission, while the four biggest companies in the industry were paying £1.5 billion in dividends to their shareholders. But the Chancellor knows this – he was a property developer himself……”
“Finally I see in the budget small print that Phil hopes to balance his books by flogging off £3bn worth of RBS shares every year for the next five years.”
……………………..
Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp – ‘Economy tanking? Make a Jeremy Clarkston joke’ 24/11/17.
…”So the budget in summary; the economy is tanking and we are not even building Brexit into the equation yet …”
“Let’s also compare economies previously described by representatives of the UK Government as basket cases, such as post bailout Ireland and Greece and previously cliff-edged Spain to UK in GDP growth projections for 2017/18/19.
In 2017 – UK 1.5%, Ireland 3.1%, Greece 4.8% and Spain 1.6%.
In 2018 – UK 1.4%, Ireland 2.5%, Greece 3.9% and Spain 2.5%.
In 2019 – UK 1.3%, Ireland 2.1%, Greece 3.1% and Spain 2.5%.
So let’s be clear, the UK even before Brexit was falling behind the EU economically and recovering much more slowly than others that were also badly hit by the credit crunch.”
“Two really interesting statements made by Hammond re. our oil: “Firstly, with the ability for oil companies to sell assets to new companies who would then inherit the big companies tax write-offs, he effectively declared the North Sea a tax-free zone and reduced Scottish oil revenues for years to come ahead of the next independence referendum.
However a bigger surprise was his boast that the North Sea has 20 billion barrels of oil left to extract. This was fascinating as the UK Government have now switched from backing Sir Ian Woods referendum debate – 14/15 billion barrels of oil left forecast (we have extracted a billion barrels since then) – to predicting 20 billions now and a £40 billion oil and gas bonanza.
So convinced were they that there were only 14 billion barrels left in 2014 Treasury Secretary Danny Alexander claimed that an independent Scotland would face a basic income tax rate of 30% or 5% cuts to public spending across the board based on Wood’s new oil and gas estimates.
I guess with some companies doubling production, costs down to as low as 14 dollars a barrel and the oil price having gone back up to over 60 dollars those oil reserves we were told were economically unreachable are now firmly in the Treasury’s sights to help them to recover from Brexit a few years down the line.”
@Handandshrimp –
Kez and Bozza Snr would be totally sensational.
‘He was an elderly pillar of the English Tory establishment, responsible for spawning some of the country’s most virulent reactionaries, but damned proud of it. She, young and gay, was steeped in the socialist traditions of her native Scotland, tirelessly and selflessly campaigning for international solidarity. They could hardly have been more different, and yet, thrown together into extraordinary circumstances, the wild unpredictability of nature was to throw up yet another surprise…’
😉
Reluctant Nationalist
You are not wrong
Reluctant Nationalist
I can see why you might be reluctant but so am I. Are we not seeking to emancipate Scotland’s political identity though?
I don’t see identity politics as an end in it’s self but neither am I ideologically against it’s potential to liberates groups, in terms of their contextual-self and agency.
You don’t see a strap line under The Scotsman’s title; “The Paper That’s Supports Being Governed By Jingoistic Mouth Frothing BritNat Bigots”, or one under The Daily Mail’s title that reads; “Salacious Gossip & Semi Naked Pictures Of Young Ladies Whose Age Is Questionable.”
The National doesn’t need one either.
Yeah Cameron, I get that. You’re just doing it really badly.
rock appears in the wee small hours bullies a contributor then disappears.
up pops confused many hours later to support rock- same person? then disappears
getting near midnight –will rock reappear?
Is he on nightshift or abroad?
Who cares? but I will still buy the National and the Sunday Herald as they support independence.
Pretty good outing for the curlers in CowBell Land.
Gold and silver. Not too shabby.
Going to get overwhelmed by the rugby result though. Too bad.
This just in: Richard Leonard claims his intervention responsible for the medals.
(Monica Lennon for the girls)
Ian Brotherhood
LOL 🙂
Unfortunately I can only cope with very small doses of that programme so I don’t know if I will catch the relevant exchanges.
Reluctant Nationalist
“Yeah Cameron, I get that. You’re just doing it really badly”
Can you expand? How would you do things differently?
AlbertaScot says:
25 November, 2017 at 9:01 pm
Pretty good outing for the curlers in CowBell Land.
Gold and silver. Not too shabby.
Going to get overwhelmed by the rugby result though. Too bad.
This just in: Richard Leonard claims his intervention responsible for the medals.
(Monica Lennon for the girls)
link to imgur.com
No National this eve from my local Scotmid, nae Scottish cheese either, no, non, non.
I managed to reach up to the 6 foot shelf for my Scottish beer though, phew!
Reluctant Nationalist @ 8.15
Yes that’s a great place to be …but… using “the system” to change “the system” is a valid conception is is no?
And if so, understanding it ….no matter by what means is key don’t ye think?
And in assisting that Cameron I think does it very well….for people like me….and by that I mean people who were only educated enough to make ” the system” work!
I get it occasionally and will do so more now.
I agree that the strapline should be dropped. It has done its job, but now just serves to keep possible new readers away.
Agree Stu should have a regular /occasional column.
one other point- I understand that the paywall is there to raise revenue, but folks, stop sharing paywall articles on twitter/facebook? what do you imagine it achieves?
confused,
“if you dish it, then you need to be able to take it”
Very well said, “confused” and thanks for not being afraid to post your support.
By the time I got round to reading this post and commenting, I had been attacked and mocked numerous times, especially by the aggressive verbal bully Robert Peffers, who as the proverbial coward runs away when challenged about his “sovereign” and “British till judgement day” shite.
Then Petra has the cheek to post:
“High time that someone on here put a stop to the constant barrage”.
As if she doesn’t know who this blog belongs to.
I post here by the grace of the Rev. Stuart Campbell, whose blog is perhaps the only vehicle of free speech in the entire UK.
Unlike the usual suspects who behave as if this blog belongs to them and use the “t” word against anyone who has a different opinion despite numerous appeals by the Rev. Stuart Campbell, I hardly ever use the “t” word against anyone or demand that someone stops posting.
You will also notice that the clueless pompous armchair pundits who attack me are hardly ever able to challenge the comment I have made.
Let me ask Robert Peffers again:
When was the last time “sovereign” Scots exercised their “sovereignty” to impeach a ruling monarch?
Surely in 700 years of “sovereignty” there would have been times when the “plebs” wanted to oust the monarch?
By the time I got round to reading this post and commenting, I had been attacked and mocked numerous times,
Because you’re a trolling twat Rock. Its not rocket science. How’s everyone at the 77th tonight?
Thepnr (aka Alex Clark),
“@Rock
Both statements can’t possibly be true, just the one.
“it played a leading role in denying the SNP a majority by heavily promoting the Greens and RISE at the last Scottish election” IN DENYING THE SNP A MAJORITY.
And was supported in this by the likes of Bella and Pravda GB, with the deliberate aim of denying the SNP a majority.
“The National has near zero influence” IN FAVOUR OF THE INDEPENDENCE CAUSE.
Support for the independence has at best stagnated during The National’s 3 years of existence.
However, the SNP lost its majority in the Scottish parliament and lost 22 MPs, half a million voters and 14% of the vote in the “snap” Westminster election.
heedtracker,
“Because you’re a trolling twat Rock. Its not rocket science. How’s everyone at the 77th tonight?”
There you go, Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend.
heedtracker (9th February – “A division of principles”):
“Rock, whatever you’re up to on WoS, listen up, the author of Wings over Scotland is not the messiah and he’s not going to win ref 2.”
Rock (9th February – “A division of principles”):
“If anyone can tip the balance in favour of winning, it is this site and its author.”
I have had a subscription since the start and it has often proved a valuable resource when campaigning
I also buy it whenever in Scotland , and move it to the top shelf
I feel a weekly or bi-weekly column on the latest misreporting at the BBC would take over from where the Prof and GA left off and would attract a lot of additional readers
Lol, I’ve been criticized for defending the Rock in the past, but I genuinely believe he is a Yes supporter who just like to wind folk up that are easy to reel in.
Lol, queue backlash.
@Rock
As usual your full of it.
“You will also notice that the clueless pompous armchair pundits who attack me are hardly ever able to challenge the comment I have made.”
Still haven’t answered this yet.
Thepnr says:
25 November, 2017 at 1:56 am
@Rock
Both statements can’t possibly be true, just the one.
“it played a leading role in denying the SNP a majority by heavily promoting the Greens and RISE at the last Scottish election”
“The National has near zero influence”
So which is it? A leading role or zero influence?
Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, is it really beyond you to use quotation marks when quoting someone?
“If anyone can tip the balance in favour of winning, it is this site and its author.”
That’s no different from SLabour activists today Rock, “I voted YES 2014, but never again, Oh no way, it would have been a disaster, so glad,” they love to rant and rage.
Say something positive about SNP Scots.gov Rock, say something positive about SNP Scots gov policies, any of them, or just one?
Not a chance. But to be fair, you’re good at punching into btl WoS commenting and ripping it to shreds, usually by targeting just the one commenter.
Even your new confused supporter is full of shit.
Its a troll thing:D
@Rock
Your argument then is that the National plays a leading role against Independence within the RISE movement because of it’s great influence.
Yet, the National has no influence within the Independence movement.
You sound a tad confused. It’s not possible to have your cake and eat it Craig.
confused,
“As for the “business” side of things – there cannot be one – it must lose a ton of money ”
No, it doesn’t actually.
It uses all the facilities of The Herald which The Herald would be paying for anyway (Fixed costs).
Its only costs are variable costs which are more than offset by its sales proceeds.
So it is making a profit which helps towards any losses made by The Herald.
As I have often posted, buy The National to keep its elder sister, The Herald, alive.
Lol, queue backlash.
Rock’s never ever said anything at all about Scotland, ever. In particular, monstering FM Sturgeon over and over is a troll thing too.
Fair play to Rock, Scotland’s heaving with Rocks enraged like him, they’re British, that’s never going to change is it Rock, why should they not be ranting and raging Rock style btl WoS?
Thepnr (aka Alex Clark),
“You sound a tad confused. It’s not possible to have your cake and eat it Craig.”
I have made my point very clearly.
If you can’t understand it, that is your problem.
Ok … reading the replies from the bottom up…
But.. can someone either confirm or debunk??
Did the National run a —-McCrone Report—– article.
I am sure that I read it but …and not for the first time… LOL…questioning my memory??
I have tended to save my copies of the National and then pop them in the paper-recycling bin once a fortnight. I’ve usually finished reading my copy by the end of the working day, so, from now on, I’ll leave it on the bus or on the train as a free sample for someone else.
When I have some extra cash, I sometimes buy two copies and pop one in among the free “Metros” in the railway station or leave it in the waiting room.
heedtracker,
“Its a troll thing:D”
Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, why do the likes of you engage with me then?
Rev. Stuart Campbell says: (The Too Wee Factor)
23 August, 2017 at 10:37 am
“READERS! For fuck’s SAKE, what have we learned about feeding trolls? Do people think I’ve nothing better to do with my time right now than wade through pages of comments from people replying to some troll arsehole, deleting everything so that folk can actually talk about the article in peace?
The user “indy” is banned. Dealing with trolls is my job. Report them to me and then IGNORE them, because otherwise it’s ultimately MY time you’re wasting, because I’m the one who has to clean up all the sodding mess.”
Thepnr @ 10.39
Craig?….now I am really worried about my memory!
Can you explain please?
When I have some extra cash, I sometimes buy two copies and pop one in among the free “Metros” in the railway station or leave it in the waiting room.
I pick up the bundle of metros on my bus in Glasgow and dump them all in the nearest recycle bin, every morning. No one says anything, yet.
Its the little things:D
@Liz g at 10:51
I don’t remember one in the National, but there was one on the front cover of the Sunday Herald around the time of the 2014 referendum.
Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, why do the likes of you engage with me then?
But this is just another troll technique, target and monster a single btl commenter, pull focus away from anything interesting and on to the troll, you.
You do it well Rock, give you that much.
Liz g
And I wasn’t a bit feart of being accused of whitemansplaining, not. Thank you, that really does mean a lot.
Reluctant Nationalist
I’m genuinely interested in how you think my approach fails. Though I am a genuine head-case, I’m not ego-driven and welcome constructive criticism. 😉
If the paper is to succeed, every SNP member / Indy supporter should buy The National on a daily basis. It is our only antidote to the 95% anti Indy press on the newsstands.
However I despair when tomorrow’s Sunday Herald refers to rotten Boroughs in a headline which is an English spelling as Scottish town councils were always referred to as Burghs.
In the run up to St Andrew’s Day why do supermarkets in Scotland refer to big purple vegetables as Swedes as when I was a boy living in the country they were always referred to as Turnips and the small white version was swedes.
It’s bad enough supermarkets when get away with their Union Jack packaging on Scottish produce but why should we support their Anglicization of traditional Scottish neeps.
In case there might be one or two who’ve missed this elsewhere…
It’s like wrestling with a pig: you get covered in shite and the pig enjoys the attention.
Liz g says:
25 November, 2017 at 2:28 pm
manandboy @ 1.59
I think the National has covers the McCrone report!
___________________________________________________
Thanks, Liz, if The National has covered The McCrone Report then I must have missed it. Like I would miss a total eclipse of the Sun. Seriously, please confirm and I will gladly apologise to you and The National. I will join forces with the Ku Klux Klan if it results in Independence for Scotland.
BTW, 53 – 24 v the Australians – brilliant don’t you think?
@heedtracker at 10:57
Nice one, heedtracker. I might just follow your lead on that.
@Liz g
It’s quite straightforward,
Rock is very fond of posting other contributors posts from the past, I looked up some of his posts. He wasn’t always like this you know LOL.
Rock says:
27 May, 2014 at 9:11 pm
As there are some other Craigs posting, to avoid confusion I will now post as ‘Rock’.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
heedtracker,
“Rock’s never ever said anything at all about Scotland, ever. In particular, monstering FM Sturgeon over and over is a troll thing too.”
How about this, Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend?
Do notice that I posted this 4 months before the independence referendum
Rock (21st May 2014 – Stormy weather):
“I think, ironically, one of the reasons for No still apparently holding strong is the competence of the SNP government.
The SNP government have done extremely well under the circumstances and No voters who voted for it have started taking it for granted. They don’t realise what Westminster will do against Scotland in the event of a No vote.
If a majority votes No, we will have been proven to be ‘too stupid’ and the laughing stock of the world.
The SNP itself would be thoroughly demoralised and it would be totally unfair for it to continue doing the hard work for a majority which voted No.
Let the unionist politicians Lamont, Davidson & Rennie deliver their jam to the majority who believed their false promises.
It would be very hard for us Yes voters, but that would be our best chance for another referendum within 10 years if not sooner, which we would win with an overwhelming majority.
Having said that, I believe democratically there will be a Yes vote, but have grave worries that the British establishment will prevent it from prevailing, either by black ops before the referendum, or if those fail, by rigging the vote.
When did the British establishment ever let a colony become independent without showing its brutality?”
I accept that the SNP did bounce back, but I still believe that it should have resigned and let the unionists make a total mess of governing after the No vote.
Yes voters would also suffer as a result (Independence will never be achieved without suffering), but No voters will never turn as long as the SNP government protects them from the London Tories of all colours.
They are having the best of both worlds and thoroughly deserve a sharp shock to bring them to their senses.
@Robert Peffers (10.55 a.m.)-
Thanks again for that response, and the links.
Very *very* interesting stuff.
It’s not difficult to imagine why The Establishment pays an army of useful idiots to protect it at all levels. We get some of them here on WOS, but they’re small-fry.
😉
More power to ye.
Free Scotland @ 11.00
Thanks Free Scotland that might be what I am remembering!
I feel so daft because I would have argued till the coos come home that the National had run a McCrone report article.
But unless and until someone tells us differently …
I guess I have to agree that’s a gap that’s needin filled!
What can we do but keep on sayin it!!!
@Rock
That was a post by “Craig” as I said you weren’t always like you are now. So what happened to make you such a gurn now?
Thepnr (aka Alex Clark),
“Rock is very fond of posting other contributors posts from the past, I looked up some of his posts. He wasn’t always like this you know LOL.”
Well you seemed to have missed these ones:
Rock:
“Morag, you are making petty points about Thepnr’s real life experience and what he feels about it.
There are two sides of a coin – the giver is giving out of pity but the receiver is acutely aware of his helplessness in having to receive charity.
With independence, we want to get rid of this poverty and helplessness in Scotland.
I would prefer to be poorer in an independent Scotland than ever again be called a scrounger or subsidy junky, of which I am neither.”
Thepnr (10th May 2015 – “The power of the press”):
“Embrace the NO voters, even the Tory ones if you hope to reach your ultimate goal.”
Rock (10th May 2015 – “The power of the press”):
“Target and embrace the ones who can be persuaded.
That is why the Radical Independence Campaign was so successful and the Yes campaign in the SNP “heartlands” a disaster.
Do you seriously believe that spending limited resources on persuading Tories in Scotland to vote for independence is a good idea?”
That was the moment when Thepnr turned against me.
Still embracing Tory No voters, Thepnr? How many have you converted?
@Thepnr –
Huh?
‘Rock’ was a ‘Craig’.
On here?
Seriously?
Liz g,
“Did the National run a —-McCrone Report—– article.”
No, it hasn’t and maybe supporters of independence should ask it why it hasn’t.
Many posters have complained here previously that it hasn’t.
The National has hardly ever run hard hitting front page articles debunking unionist lies.
Unlike the Rev. Stuart Campbell who does it day in and day out.
@Thepnr –
🙂 🙂 🙂
Ahm lovin it brither…keep it gaun…
😉
P.S. He disny huv a fuckin clue eh?
🙂
#yecouldnymakeitup
Manandboy @ 11.05
As said I couldn’t be sure….
I really do and did think that it (the National) had.
But be in no I could not agree with you more …if it hasn’t it SHOULD have of that I am in no doubt.
I can’t do link’s …so can only just chat… and that’s why I do try to take care about the way that I speak.
Because I am very well aware that this is a back up what you say site! …nae eclipse’s necessary….if I am wrong or you are wrong….then we can just chat about —why— that happened.
Either way we are on the same page…..that report is so very important that it should be highlighted at each and every opportunity.
But I do hope that there is a wee small part of you that hopes I am right….and the National has addressed it!
Rock
Unfortunately, humans are not born with an innate sense of political economy or political discourse. Can you not be a bit more constructive in your approach?
Folks
Surely Rock is allowed an opinion?
As buying a newspaper is what auld yins do, what is the point of any of them now. I have never bought a daily paper with any regularity in my life, just the odd few when a big event took place, and the people who need to be reached out to, namely the young folk, don’t read papers at all, and social media of all kinds are the way to reach them.
As I have stated on here previously, and was slaughtered for it, the way forward is to stop pussyfooting around with the media, written and broadcast. Call the liars out and give the real facts at ever opportunity, and refuse “interviews” which are just a set up for abuse or bias, starting with Sunday politics Scotland tomorrow. I actually think I have bought the National twice, and both times read the Cat Boyd article and thought ” why did I bother, she not living the same life I know”, as her outlook is the same as I have experience of from full time union officials I have known throughout my working life, knowing better than the common 5/8th, and always being right.
Rock,
It’s getting asinine, your multiple repeated self-justifications against all and sundry. They’re BORING and POINTLESS.
Can you please try to confine yourself to posting positive comments about issues that help independence along, or if that’s just too difficult for you, just piss off?
Jeezuz fukkin Christ. Is this the rock show or wings ffs. Please. DONT fuckin humour him. He’s a wind-up merchant with no other agenda than to divert your attention. Scroll past the fucker. Do not engage. Waste of effort. I despair, honestly (I’m sure his intention is to deter punters, not me tho 😉 )
Rock @ 11.28
Please don’t address me.
I don’t want to discuss anything with you.
Ta!
You’re a waffler troll now Rock. Nice.
Bigger issues, other than your butt hurting Rock
link to snp.org
From,
Dear mad old PM Teresa, its near on £7bn disappearing to UK protected tax havens, as you euthanize the disabled, the unemployable, the lost…
to, orange hitler’s USA today, but lets all listen to Rock whine…
link to bloomberg.com
My advice is just ignore Rock
@Rock
…pleased that you are now reading the National in such detail daily (…how else could you know what has been covered).
How do you find it now that you are a regular reader!
I’m quite happy to hear opposing voices on Wings making their argument. That’s to the good, however I don’t like repeated attacks on others as that is what they must be described as on well respected posters such as Petra or Robert P whether you disagree with them or not.
Rock unfortunately has no such compunctions and every post is an attack of some kind against either the National, Nicola Surgeon and the SNP or even just another btl poster like himself.
The negativity he wears as a shield is wearing, it’s meant to be. Rock disappear and think about coming back as Craig. Maybe rescue your soul along the way.
I’d still hug a Tory if it meant they would vote YES. Would YOU?
Thepnr @ 11.05
Well IMHO… LOL
Craig would have been better served posting as.. Inch High Private Eye..
Did he ever make any sense dae ye know?
Actually don’t answer that ….cause I would be struggling to care.
And it might be Confusing if Don’t greet!!
Clootie
That’s the game but gonnae no dae that? Ma heeds minced enough as it is. 🙂
FFS this is starting to do my tits in.
Let’s settle this this once and for all.
Rock, what did you vote in 2014?
@Thepnr-
Aha…
So…
Hmmm…
‘Rock’ was once ‘Craig’.
???
Just back from the Wee Ginger Dug at St Andrews night dinner on Arran. superb night, full of enthusiasm for the campaign ahead. We can do this !
What a performance for the Scotland team today and with success for the Curling Ladies Team , can only be good for the National psyche , (Even through Muirhead and mist if the Rugger Chaps are No voters.)
Cameron B Brodie @ 11.38
Absolutely Rock is allowed an opinion…
Who am I to deny him that?
But I am allowed to prevent him Gaslighting me.
And to point out to others,that is what I think he is doing.
And Craig is more than free to demonstrate that I am the fool for thinking this is what he is doing.
Tis interesting on some level Cameron…is it no?
But and there’s always a but!!! there is a time and a place for everything?
And this is Scotland’s time…so Craig! mibbi want’s to think about his place,in all of it?
Liz g,
“Rock @ 11.28
Please don’t address me.
I don’t want to discuss anything with you.
Ta!”
Accept to be challenged if you post here.
It seems to me you were trying to spread a falsehood.
Surely no man is an island.
link to archive.is
Liz g says:
24 November, 2017 at 8:09 pm
” It will actually be interesting tae see what Rocks Rant will be tonight.”
Liz g says:
25 November, 2017 at 11:45 pm
“Rock @ 11.28
Please don’t address me.
I don’t want to discuss anything with you.
Ta!”
You think you can mock me, yet demand that I can’t challenge your posts?
One_Scot,
“Let’s settle this this once and for all.
Rock, what did you vote in 2014?”
I will give you a clue:
Rock (21st May 2014 – Stormy weather):
“It would be very hard for us Yes voters,”
I will leave you to make up your own mind as to how I voted on referendum day.
Thepnr,
“I’m quite happy to hear opposing voices on Wings making their argument.”
Thepnr (24th November – The Loser)”
“@Rock
Why do you even bother posting on Wings? What’s in it for you?
You really are a fanny, keep up the good work in making an arse of yourself so we can all have a laugh before we go to bed.”
Thepnr
I would welcome any Tory to step over to the light Alex but I don’t really see much prospect of that. Open-minded, pragmatic Conservatives, perhaps? Small ‘c’ conservative Scots (a good chunck of the No vote, mostly BLiS__d voters), are certainly worth a hug or two.
As far as personal attacks go, I wish they would stop from all directions. If you can’t destroy the opponents argument through reasoned logic, or ripping the pish in an educational manner, it’s best not to go at it in the first place, IMHO.
I also think it pays to walk softly and carry a big theory stick up your jumper. I’m not sure if you should be listening to anything I say though, as I really am a head-case. 😉
——-
First rule of iScotland fight-club; behavior is shaped by mood, so keep it positive.
Thepnr,
“I’d still hug a Tory if it meant they would vote YES. Would YOU?”
No, I am not “bloody stupid”.
How many have you converted so far?
Robert Peffers says (to Thepnr):
27 March, 2017 at 7:40 pm )”The same old songs again”):
“Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid. First of all you are not the person who decides what the purpose of the Rev Stu’s blog is. That’s the Rev Stu’s choice to make. Secondly you probably wouldn’t recognise a real Troll if it was chewing on your ear.”
Thepnr (27th March – “The same old songs again”):
“@Robert Peffers
You know something Robert you post a lot of stuff that people may like. You also tend to attack anyone who doesn’t have exactly the same view as you. Why?
Give it a rest Robert, sure give us your opinion but tell me once more that “Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid.”
Then you will also be ignored. You should STOP being disrespectful to other posters. Give me your opinion by all means but stop telling me that mine is shite. OK.”
@CameronB Brodie
According to the polls 4% of Tories voted for Independence. Every vote counts and I welcome that 4% of those who normally vote Tory.
Clootie,
“@Rock
…pleased that you are now reading the National in such detail daily (…how else could you know what has been covered).
How do you find it now that you are a regular reader!”
Rock says:
25 November, 2017 at 11:28 pm
“Many posters have complained here previously that it hasn’t.”
I doubt regular reader and poster Liz g would have missed that. I believe she was trying to spread a falsehood.
Thepnr,
“According to the polls 4% of Tories voted for Independence. Every vote counts and I welcome that 4% of those who normally vote Tory.”
How many have you converted so far since you started “embracing” them in May 2015?
Rock @ 12.24
Well..
Yes …
And more than that…
I will choose if and when I respond.
You can address me on December 24th…and in the spirit of the season I will give you two responses..
Don’t forget now December 24th..
Sinky,
“My advice is just ignore Rock”
Very good advice to those who repeatedly allege that Rock is a troll.
Do you seriously think the usual suspects would listen?
Liz g
I know you can look after yourself.
Liz g,
“And more than that…
I will choose if and when I respond.”
So will I.
What hypocrisy to mock me and then to demand I don’t address you.
Liz g says:
25 November, 2017 at 11:45 pm
“Rock @ 11.28
Please don’t address me.
I don’t want to discuss anything with you.”
CameronB Brodie,
“Thepnr
I would welcome any Tory to step over to the light Alex but I don’t really see much prospect of that.”
He hasn’t stopped attacking me since I pointed that out to him in May 2015.
@Rock
“How many have you converted so far since you started “embracing” them in May 2015?”
Precisely none Rock though that won’t stop me trying. That’s the main difference between you and I. I will welcome ALL in an Independent Scotland and especially those that voted for it.
You would slag them off no doubt as not being welcome because for example they are a “Tory Voter”. Well their are just the types of voters as far as I’m concerned. Those that will vote YES and those that are yet to be convinced to vote YES.
Losers such as yourself are no help whatsoever to a Scotland that seeks to gain it’s place as an Independent country.
I need no lessons from you, the saddest person in Scotland.
Rock’s getting a bit of overtime? Fair do’s – he needs to get some Christmas presents in…
On ye go Rock, ‘Craig’, whatever yer name is – please don’t feel alone. Ye’re never alone! There’s plenty of us keeping a very close eye on ye buddy!
😉
Thepnr
Thanks for the clarification, though that is still a small number of votes and it does kind of rest on the definition of a “Tory”. That might have been the extent of pragmatic Conservatives in Scotland, at that time. I’ve no definite insight though.
These ‘rational’ Conservatives should be encouraged to spread the good word. 😉
Petra
If I recall correctly Wood predicted as low as 1
Robert J. Sutherland,
“Rock,
It’s getting asinine, your multiple repeated self-justifications against all and sundry. They’re BORING and POINTLESS.”
My first comment on this blog was 25 November, 2017 at 12:30 am
I suggest you read the 131 comments before that and find out how many times I was attacked and mocked and then give the same advice you give me to the usual suspects.
Oops! Hit a wrong button.
If I recall correctly Wood predicted as low as 12 billion barrels of oil, the higher figures you cited only being available if the industry listened to his recommendations.
Thepnr,
“”@Rock
“How many have you converted so far since you started “embracing” them in May 2015?”
Precisely none Rock though that won’t stop me trying.”
If that suits you, keep on wasting your time when it could be better spent as I had pointed out to you two and a half years ago:
Rock (10th May 2015 – “The power of the press”):
“Target and embrace the ones who can be persuaded.
That is why the Radical Independence Campaign was so successful and the Yes campaign in the SNP “heartlands” a disaster.
Do you seriously believe that spending limited resources on persuading Tories in Scotland to vote for independence is a good idea?”
Thepnr,
“You would slag them off no doubt as not being welcome because for example they are a “Tory Voter”.”
I am not “bloody stupid”.
Tories are selfish people who don’t need any “embracing” – they make up their own minds as to where their self interests lie.
I wouldn’t waste a second or penny “embracing” them but would have no problem if any of them voted Yes.
Cameron B Brodie @ 12.49
I hope I can Cameron…but can ye dae me a wee favour?
Remind me that I have to give Craig two answers ( and I never said what kind) on December 24th.
Oh I know that I was being generous but.. I am no doing the dinner this year…Sooo.. I have a wee bit o time.
I wouldn’t normally ask but I know that you know that I have a terrible memory and would not like to spoil anyone’s mas of X.
The thought of even Craig missing out .. perturbs me!
@Rock
There are only two possible explanations for how you come up with posts from days gone by that you then use to attack other posting on Wings.
The first is that you have access your own database of all Wings comments and can search and sort to your hearts content before finding the one you need for your next rant.
The second is that you don’t have access to such a database and you spend most of the night trawling through old posts in the hope of finding a “nugget”.
Well, you might have been observing my posts over the years and saving some up as you have shown often. I’ve also observed your behaviour and am plumping for option 1. You have a database of all previous posts that you can search at your leisure then use these posts against those you want to humiliate or contradict.
Your a troll and a paid one at that. You’ll be gone from here before I ever am I’m certain of that. Meantime caw canny many are watching and you brought that on yourself.
Liz g
Do you think my memory is any better? My head’s full of mince, apart from what I know I know. Even then, there’s probably something buried deep that I’ve forgotten, until it’s rediscovered. 😉
Morning y’all!
Ahm in the only late night opening bar in the sueside of Glasgow, Scotland. Ra now.
Ps and they have Wings! (for their logo)
Work that one out People of Glasgow.
Sounds like a clothing fabric.
Fuck it, casino bound.
If aye knew you were comin’ aye would have baked a cake.
Aye can see the bonnie ‘orion constellation’.
Look to the sky.
14/17.
Seventeen.
Breeks says:
“Fools rush in where angels fear to tread, but find the Tories are already in there waiting for them with the kettle on.”
That is wonderful. I had to go and google the generic part of that statement alongside “Pratchett” to see if you were paraphrasing him.
Yes, I really thought it was that good.
It’s good to be different.
Listen always.
Food.
Love
Love
LOVE
Love everybuddy.
Love Scotland.
Love yerself.
Always.
Cameron B Brodie @ 1.31
Ah weel O’ B wan Brodie ye were my only hope…
It’s lookin like Crock will have to Wing it fur the 24th
But just to… accentuate the positive (which I hope he can manage) without his head exploding… Truly …
Between you and me,the chance of us remembering is “halfway there” and Crock will just have to keep “living on a prayer”!!
God I miss Smallaxe X
First bet.
£10 on 14/17.
Seventeen came in ya fuckin’ dancer!!!
I LOVE PEOPLE.
I LOVE SCOTLAND.
Rollin’
Rollin’
Rollin…’
One is in the smoking garden, smokin’.
X.
Just checked in and I’m absolutely bored and scunnered to death once again. Trawling through one post after another looking for some valid and interesting information: Even a joke or two, but to no avail. We’ve got the same old, same old … garbage on here. Day after day and night after night. What a bunch of mugs we are. Wimps. Folks talking about getting rid of Westminster and we can’t even rid ourselves of Westminster lackies on this site.
If you are a newbie on here you will no doubt be bored to death too and may think of bu**ering off altogether, for evermore. Never to return.
Stay with us please folks and consider that, this is the name of the game of course for our opponents. Anti-independence individuals use a MULTITUDE of strategies in their attempt to bring a site down, in particular one as influential as this. Bore and confuse you to death with their ‘daftie .. inane talk’, confuse and disturb you with what seems to be an ‘intellectual argument – the clever clogs’, discredit their opponents (threat to their objectives) with so-called facts or their ‘outing of personal opinions’ of such people, zoom in on and highlight anyone’s weekness’s and make the most of it and of course hit this site with people using vulgar language and swear words. Some of course use a combination of all such strategies in conjunction. They want you to ask yourself if you want join such a ‘cabal’. They want to highlight that individuals on here are role models for the Independence cause and if they are ‘lacking’ in any way at all, so too is the independence movement.
This is a site that supposedly supports Independence for Scotland. Totally unique in fact. If you are now confused about it’s status and ideology I don’t blame you because I am totally confused now too.
Time to rid ourselves of the dross. I’ve never at anytime at all requested that anyone be banned from a site, I’ve been ABSOLUTELY loathe to do so, even although I have been banned from MANY sites over the last four years or so. However I’ve basically had enough now. Time that I, and everyone else on here imo, got real.
My focus in life right now is getting Independence for Scotland. I post on here because I know that thousands of others think likewise. If you are not ‘with us’ then get lost. If you are so obsessed with this site that your main aim is in destroying it and along the way harassing and targeting decent people .. get real. Outwith this site people who target and harass people get prosecuted. Get prosecuted because they keep records (copy and paste) of such. It works both ways of course.
link to hoover.org
Posted but not seen it yet maybe cos noob? Bought national as always but put it from bottom shelf with sports pish onto Xpress etc and feel nightly chuffed haha
😉
We won!
People like perks.
See ayeMail, see indiegogo.
What can we all do for you Callum?
Everytime a bell rings, a newspaper wins its Wings.
Links
link to indyref2.scot
link to autonomyscotland.org
Support The campaign to end rip off delivery surcharges across Scotland
link to fairdeliverycharges.scot
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
Someone should tell McDonnell
Crisis grants worth £2.2m are paid to needy in Scotland
link to archive.is
link to theorkneynews.scot
link to holyrood.com
link to truepublica.org.uk
link to theneweuropean.co.uk
Peer threatens to resign whip after disability post scrapped
link to archive.is
Tesco tells Christmas temps they will get wages via prepaid cards – which cost 50p per withdrawal
link to archive.is
link to politico.eu
Tories’ rosy plan for the NHS is exposed as a stinker
link to archive.is
The inside story of how David Cameron drove Britain to Brexit
link to archive.is
link to politicshome.com
link to middleeastmonitor.com
link to thelondoneconomic.com
Vote leave donations, the dark arts…..
link to archive.is
link to rt.com
Jeremy Scahill on the U.S.-Backed Atrocities in Yemen
link to theintercept.com
“ Ruth the mooth” on the Marr show this morning ( Marr parrots the introductory “ drivel” of the colonel being a possible new leader of the “Tory Junta” ( they must be so desperate!). This never ending media exposure and “love in” with Davidson on the propaganda “ brainwashing channel “is nothing other than a blatant attempt to “ big her up” for the “ consolation prize” of FM at the next Holyrood election by “ convincing” the Scottish public” that she is a “ shoo in “ for FM.
Unfortunately for the yoons she is “ all mooth” , has nae class or style” ( unlike Nicola the “ real deal” as Dickenson would say , a genuine “ European class” stateswoman.
What a joke ! Ruth for 10 Downing st? More like the next edition of “ I’m a celebrity”
and “ Downing creek” would be more appropriate for “ PM “ Ruth
Cactus I think you and rock are smoking too much.
It is impacting on your wellbeing.
Apart from anything else its pretty boring.
Any ideas on independence? self-determination?
Naw?
ye’re nae dancer
bbc scotchland
Paper reviewers katy grant, clegg
bbc bias
Davidson can apparently bake cakes and be the next PM Dugdale can eat bugs.
Happy are clegg and grant. What heroes.
It is about time donalda is called to explain such bias in the bbc at PQ. If nothing else it may show that we just want at least 1 pro independence person to review the papers along the 2 red white and blue unionists. Even someone from Scotland would be ok!
@ North Chiel
I note when Nicola is invited to International events such as the recent Environmental conference she gets zero coverage.
BiFab rescue involvement etc…next to nothing.
Unionist media are not very subtle…it is negative coverage or zero coverage…..Hoever had it been Ruthie !!! It would have been on a par with Gordon Brown saving the World.
The Tories will be in the wildness for 30 years after the Brexit mess. Davidson might make it when she’s 70 but doubt it. Bella. By then with the racist, bigoted faction established in an Independent England/Wales, you will probably have to be born there to be PM. There will be no biased electoral system to let the 3rd Tories rejects in on the so called ‘fair’ PR system. Mar is a useless sycophant.
The BBC liars no mention of STV or D’Hondt.
What a shower. Anyone who opposes Scottish Independence is gone within two years. Who wants the poison chalice. Scottish Independence. Brexit and the Irish border. McDonnell and Corbyn haven’t got a clue and can stop telling lies about Scotland. Ignorant incompetents,
The useless Westminster opposition could have voted the Tories out by now. The enablers and abstainers. The majority are more concerned about their own cushy number than the economy. Westminster fiddles while people starve and die. The Tories are killing off their own voters. The elderly. They are tanking the economy and ruining the world economy. It is just disgraceful.
Thatcher put unemployed people on sickness benefit. She tanked the economy, especially in Scotland. Secretly and illegally took all the Oil revenues and built up London S/E. Cut the Scottish budget to the bone, There were over 3 million unemployed on a smaller pop. Interest rates at over 15%. Inflation was rampant.
Thatcher destroyed the banking system. Deregulation. Sold off the building societies owned by their members. The banks took them over and used the mortgage fund to casino gamble. Pozzi schemes. Lack of regulation. Capital reserves reduced world wide from 25% to 13%. Not enough. Thatcher/Reagan onwards. The 2008 crash. The UK still not recovered going backwards to pre 2008 levels.
Now the Tories are tanking the economy, so they can continue to tax evade and embezzle £Billion of taxpayers money on groteque projects of no value. Now the Army is being cut. Some Tories do not like it one bit. Trying to take Tridrnt off the Defence books. Instead of getting rid of it. An obsolete weapon which will never be used.
Deja Vu.
Petra. You are quite right about the increasing number of trolls on this site, which is quite a compliment in a way. It shows how effective the Rev’s posts are. We all know their names, and the new ones are easy to spot. When you see their names simply move on. It makes Wings a much more pleasant read.
The Andrew Marr Show this morning pretending to take Ruth Davidson seriously. North chiel got it right when he/she said that the establishment are trying to line her up for the next Holyrood elections as a credible FM. I hope that we will be independent before then and that their plans are for nothing.
The Brits started the next referendum campaign when we didn’t lie down after the last one. We should always be aware of this. They will use anything they can to stop us, and they won’t let moral considerations bother them.
RE: the discourse along the lines of “hug a tory”, in the early minutes of today, up above.
I’ll just leave this here.
link to twitter.com
(You don’t need a Twitter account to read.)
People should understand, while the BBC has the legal penalty enforced Licence tax it will not answer to anyone in Scotland who is not Tory or UK Establishment.
On Marr, as Chomsky pointed out to him, if he had any other opinion he would not be where he is, that is, if he didn’t brave as an establishment cypher he would not be on the BBC.
Davidson has peaked at the time when the Tories are in trouble, they didn’t expect it to go this wrong. The voters of England are in for a shock when they get her.
CameronB Brodie says:
26 November, 2017 at 3:16 am
Language: The Most Disruptive Technology
Language is arguably the most fundamental human tool. At certain points in history, when other technologies have enhanced or damaged the use of language, major changes in world order have resulted. We are witnessing such a phenomenon now.
At present, a “language revolution” is under way, propelled by an eruption of electronic communication technologies that, while enhancing productivity, are also creating social and political chaos….
It’s the great gold rush of our time… As usual, all the best claims are already taken before the rest of us wake up.
The DUP have won the battle but lost the war. If there is no power share agreement in Stormont they will get voted out. Already 50/50%. They will go much lower. Out of Office, No majority. Racist, bigots, misogynists members of exclusive, supposed to be secret, societies. Brainwashed from the day they are born. Not equal or fair in any way. They break UK Law with impunity. Do as they like. Most of them should be in jail. Subsidise £Billions for their votes in Westminster. Useless incompetents. Ireland could vote to reunite. Changing Demographics. Ireland was illegally Partitioned in 1923. The majority wanted Home Rule/Independence. Universal Suffrage 1928. Five years too late.
They are in a shoddily position just like the Tories in Scotland.
Eurozone connection to Brexit vote. It was EU countries connection to London lending which caused any friction in the eurozone/EU banking system. Spain, Portugal etc lending on pozzi holiday homes schemes. Irish, Iceland over borrowing on London lending markets exposed to US/UK fraudulent housing markets. Pozzi schemes from 1980’s onwards. Deleverage of world banking capital and reserves by US/UK Gov. Destabilising world banking systems.
UK/US major world banking sectors. The had a reputation of stability and honesty backed up by ‘stable’ Gov. Not any longer. Reputation gone. World capital reserves have been raised to 25% again. Tax evasion is being clamped upon but still going on under the radar. Secret. The EU is now taking action. The reason why the Tories and their associates want out of the EU.
Tax havens established by Thatcher being used to destabilise countries economies by multinationals making vast profits and not paying legitimate, required taxes. They tax evade. Using patents and copywrit to create monopolies and charge what they like for inadequate products. With no competition there is no alternative. Not free or fair trade breaking world trading agreements. Protectionism not free markets by the biggest conglomerates. Supported by fraudulent governments keeping it secret under the Official Secrets Act.
Further evidence of the complexity of staying in the single market. According to the Irish Times, UK could be required to follow new rules implemented by the EU during a Brexit transition period.
A hard Brexit is looking more likely by the day.
One or two trolls? They get their comuppance. Rev Stu can be extremely busy. No need to get hysterical. They get banned and deleted. The site is still reaching out to an amazing no of people. With facts and figure. Rev Stu analysis.
The Nationsl should give Rev Stu a column. The necessary facts and figures. That is what it needs.
Otherwise it is a delight to go to paper digital site with some sense of reality. A change,
Visiting other (unionists) sites – the bias and propaganda. Just make folk, tired, bored, annoyed and sometimes really angry.
The SNP/Independence is still winning in spite of all the opposition. Have faith. It just needs a 5% swing. Last vote up 6.3% on a biased STV electoral system. 2nd unionist votes denied victory. An increased unionist chance 6 to 1. Many voters do not understand. The reason it was introduced without knowledge or consent. More undemocratic choice.
A Referendum. One vote YES or NO. Encouraging. Support is still growing.
Should Ruth Davidson become leader of the Tories and ultimately P.M has anyone noticed that she won’t be able to vote on ‘English only interests – kind of curtails her reach!
Ach that was just a silly thought ! That woman will NEVER reach a dizzy height!
Dorothy
“Ach that was just a silly thought ! That woman will NEVER reach a dizzy height”
Steady, she could yet become Bake Off champion but only if the recipes are confined to Empire Biscuits, Pork Pies and Waffles.
OTOH if they open with Humble Pie she could be out first week.
Back to the day job.
Still, she could point out that Baker’s Dozen is less of a negative nickname than Thirldom Thirteen.
Suggestions are offered as to how the National could be improved while this website is a fn rabble!
@ fred NEVER not while there’s a dedicated Wingers core of commentator’s, there’s mair of us than Unionist Trolls .
@ Dorothy don’t speak to soon the christmas tree’s no been put up in Holyrood yet an the fairies at ah dizzying height sitting oan that spike oofft .
My suggestion for the National, is to ensure the front page is punchy. Then even if a ‘no’ voter doesn’t buy it, some information gets out into the open. It also stakes a claim!
I would also like them to reproduce some of the Revs articles, but can I respectfully request they are reconfigured a bit, to fit on one or 2 pages. Once again so that the page can be left strategically open, for the casual glance of the uninitiated.
I’ve tried printing out some of the Rev’s work, and the format does not lend itself very well to an easily left ‘info graphic poster’. Not a criticism by the way, cause I love your work, and I know it is not intended as an info graphic. Just looking at options.
I too, bought the national when it first came out, and indeed supported it for a large part of its life so far. Several times I have almost got to the point of buying it again, then another article appears in it, attacking the Scottish government and repeating the MSM lies.
The Scotgov is far from perfect, but it is doing its level best for the people of Scotland in the most difficult circumstances, and it doesnt deserve to have full 100% of Scottish newspapers against it.
As for the likes of Boyd, she put me off from the very start with her empty-headed fluff, long before she tried to sabotage the YES movement with her endorsement of oooohhhhCoooorbyyyyn.
When you throw in the football pages, [yaaaaawwwwn] there just isn’t much left in the paper worth reading.If ever it decides to include racing pages, I will never buy it hereafter. But I do find this appeal quite moving, so I will think about a digital sub for now. I do find the front pages eye-catching.
Awwwe Hamishy100 diddums, ahhh ha ha ha, how do you do too mr grumpy, did somebody steal yer stovies ssson?
If ye’ve got nothing positive to say…
You’re funny sonny.
Love ye laters.
aw wee cactus.
bit prickly. mammy letting you stay up too late. you need your sleep sonny.
Still maybe you will learn and contribute to the debate on independence. Maybe not.
A bit of a gambler – casino again.
You never learn – gamblings a mugs game
Hamish 100 @ 2.48
Are you asking to be Cactuses new Mammmy?
lol
YUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCK
Is that spelt right?
Hamish 100 @ 5.46
LoL Don’t know Hamish… but I get what you are meaning.
I’ll reserve judgement for now….but if ye ever tell him tae play nice….. I will absolutely be judging you!!
Hi Hamish100.
You’ve never met Cactus,iye? See if youn can pick him out here. It’s a wee video from the Wings get-together in Invergowrie, February 2015. You may also be able to pick out a rather well known MP.
link to youtube.com
Hi Hamish100, nae harm tae ye pal, but there’s a whole lot a-going on in the bgm that yer no aware of, there’s something in here for everyone, so if it’s not to your taste, it may be better to just scroll-on-by to another users comment with whom you can relate to. But aye, I look forward to our shared celebrations on the day that we reclaim Scotland’s rightful independence, cheers.
Hey hey Liz g ~ Thanks for yer intervention and mediation, yer a star x
Hey Brian Doonthetoon ~ 🙂
Monday November 27th, 2017
The National
“The Newspaper That Supports Bonnie Scotland”
link to thenational.scot
link to twitter.com
“STALEMATE”
Buy one today.
Love to scroll on jaggy old son but you do have a habit of multiple posts nothing to do with independence. Ot is available. Hope your horsey wins today however.
You are still not sorting out that problem with the front cover pictures. Today’s cover has the caption “stalemate” but in the picture the white king is clearly in check from the black knight.
Be more alert!
I have a complaint, well i have a few but the main one is i don’t get enough whisky these days…. lol
But seriously, i find that a lot of the posts here are beginning to get on my wick
Its very easy to string a sentence of words together, if i want to full my head with anagrams i will buy an anagram book ( is there such a thing ), sometimes i am reading something here and all of a sudden the writer puts in the lob, or the tsm or something like that, and i have no idea what the hell its meant to be
So, if anyone is to lazy to use the english language as its meant to be used, then i am afraid i will be to lazy to try and figure out what the Charles Dickens or Sir Walter Scott you are on about, and another thing!, ach al jist keep that fir another dae lol
David Caledonia.
It takes a village…. Or so I’m told!
………..
Hamish….. This is a broad Church and anything that speaks to people all people no matter how is surely a good?
I heard tale of a guy a long time ago,who spoke to people in an out there kinda way….and it’s my understanding that you are an admirer!
Ye know the judge not lest ye……thingy guy…
Him!
Thepnr,
“You have a database of all previous posts that you can search at your leisure then use these posts against those you want to humiliate or contradict.”
Clueless pompous armchair pundits like yourself obviously hate it when your clueless pomposity is exposed.
Same as unionists being exposed by WOS.
“Your a troll and a paid one at that. You’ll be gone from here before I ever am I’m certain of that. Meantime caw canny many are watching and you brought that on yourself.”
Why do the likes of yourself repeatedly ignore the instructions of the owner of this blog?
Rev. Stuart Campbell says: (The Too Wee Factor)
23 August, 2017 at 10:37 am
“READERS! For fuck’s SAKE, what have we learned about feeding trolls? Do people think I’ve nothing better to do with my time right now than wade through pages of comments from people replying to some troll arsehole, deleting everything so that folk can actually talk about the article in peace?
The user “indy” is banned. Dealing with trolls is my job. Report them to me and then IGNORE them, because otherwise it’s ultimately MY time you’re wasting, because I’m the one who has to clean up all the sodding mess.”
Petra,
“Just checked in and I’m absolutely bored and scunnered to death once again. Trawling through one post after another looking for some valid and interesting information: Even a joke or two, but to no avail. We’ve got the same old, same old … garbage on here.”
I am sure you are not being forced at gunpoint to read this blog.
If “We’ve got the same old, same old … garbage on here” perhaps you should stop reading it and start your own Pravda GB type blog where comments are not allowed.
Thepnr
Just as a wee head’s up … RE Rocks recent post to you.
Craig was complaining the other day that Petra was being encouraged to do exactly that and contact the Rev.
That time the Crock was whining that it was Reporting to “Teacher”…
I know you will probably not care all that much.
So I am really just reminding you just to give you a chuckle that he is now copying William Wallace and myself, and the Rev is back to being the Rev and he is not Teacher anymore.
This total reversal of something recently said is classic NPD
I have seen that exact thing up close and in person it’s quite fascinating to observe.
As is the total denial that they just took the polar opposite position
Liz g,
“Craig was complaining the other day that Petra was being encouraged to do exactly that and contact the Rev.
That time the Crock was whining that it was Reporting to “Teacher”…”
Clueless pompous armchair pundits like yourself are unable to counter the points I make.
You therefore have to resort to personal attacks and lies.
I am perfectly capable of standing up for myself and am not a coward needing to complain, unlike the likes of yourself.
Direct me to the post where I was whining.
If you can’t, surely you should apologise.
But I know you won’t because the likes of you are even more dishonest than the likes of Ruth Davidson and Kezia Dugdale.
Wisney talking to you Rock.
And I don’t want to….have ye forgotten… AGAIN
You want to lie about me and mock me and expect to get away with it.
You were caught out trying to promote a falsehood:
Liz g,
“Did the National run a —-McCrone Report—– article.”
You were again caught out trying to promote another falsehood:
Liz g,
“Craig was complaining the other day that Petra was being encouraged to do exactly that and contact the Rev.
That time the Crock was whining that it was Reporting to “Teacher”…”
You have even less credibility than the likes of Ruth Davidson and Kezia Dugdale.
As “confused” very rightly said:
“if you dish it, then you need to be able to take it”
I find it interesting, that certain posters on this site, feel the need to be the last “person” to post on a page.
There’s more than one of them…
This is another page I’m going to have to keep active in a tab.
Can yooz jiss no gie up?
BDTT
Aye Brian they always try and make the last comment a negative one….
Although having said that when has Crock ever been positive?
Craig’s bad attitude is nearly being caught up by his bad memory.
And there are some really good post’s on this thread too!
It’s looking like the National has a good deal of support.
Which is good because at least we will have a paper directly after the Yes vote,and between that and Independence day is probably when we will sorely need one.