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The misunderstanding

Posted on December 10, 2019 by

There are just under 36 hours until the 2019 general election.

God help us all.

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119 to “The misunderstanding”

  1. Blackhack says:

    This is why the countries f*cked…:( 🙁

  2. alasdair galloway says:

    Think it was David Steel who told the story about out canvassing and being assured by a householder that he would be voting for the Liberals (as they were then) because he was thoroughly fed up with Labour who were letting in “all these coloured people” (not sure it was that polite but it’s what Steel said.
    Never a good idea to treat the electorate as if they are stupid, but nor is it a good idea to treat them as if they are all that smart either. BoJo is relying on the latter.

  3. Bugger le Panda says:


    Save yourself.

    End of.

    Ma heid is done in

  4. Fixitfox says:

    A retired accountant ffs! Unmeasurable density.

  5. Mist001 says:

    Thick as fuck. Say I have a superiority complex if you will, but I would never, ever even speak to someone like that. I just can’t lower my intellect to that level, so it wouldn’t be worth me even trying.

  6. ScottieDog says:


  7. Capella says:

    He’s an old man and probably not thinking straight. That will be the BBC doing their umpteenth vox pop among anti-Labour voters. On this occasion, “Yes I’m a Labour voter but I’m not voting Labour this time.”

    BBC is despicable.

  8. Dr Jim says:

    Collectively there is a good argument that in large groups the public are not the brightest or lots of historical bad things would never have happened, for example we’d never have heard of Lt Col George Armstrong Custer and lots of other well known people who persuaded people to do the daftest things

    Nigel Farage anybody? Imagine telling 65 million people that the EU leaders were unelected while 800 actual unelected seat warmers were wining and dining and collecting £300+ a day on their taxes in the House of Lords AND making laws, and millions believed it

    What’s worse is Nigel Farage was elected as a MEP and only turned up to his committee on fishing once in 42 meetings, yet the same dummies who fell for his unelected bullshit never noticed he’s the lazy Bastirt he was complaining about who was also lunching on their tax money

    Farage should own his own brass foundry

  9. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    That is it exactly not sure how you deal with it but some folk simply are not qualified to vote.

    This is why Boris is PM and idiots like Hugh Gaffney get in as MPs for Labour.

    There are folk in nursing homes who dont remember their names voting. Poor souls but really?

  10. Bob Mack says:

    Their brains could be a new addition to the table of elements.

    Densonium sounds about right.

  11. Dr Jim says:

    @Jason Smoothpiece 8;03pm

    Yeah but the nice lady from the Liberal Democrats will come round to fill in their postal vote for them

  12. Tony Little says:

    @alasdair 7:32

    Who was it said that if you spent five minutes with the average voter it would put you off “democracy” for life (or words to that affect).

    I can only assume that most of these comments by the “average voter” prove beyond doubt that you CAN fool some of the people all the time. And that 24/7 propaganda on all media platforms eventually does have an impact on peoples’ perceptions.

  13. WellReadNed says:

    The sort of person who would sell their house to buy a new carpet. Like a vox pop with Father Dougal’s Da.

  14. Republicofscotland says:

    I’d be inclined to say that, that particular snapshot, is a polar opposite and reinforces exactly why the SNP’s Stop Brexit bus was the right way to go. As 62% of Scots voted to remain in the EU, and that a percentage of people, are inclined to vote firstly on instinct on Brexit (leave or remain) and party policies second.

  15. msean says:

    Not coming out of Europe,so vote Liberal,who want to remain in Europe?Or does he mean an actual Liberal,different from LibDems?

  16. Dan says:

    This confirms there is still a business opportunity out there for anyone with a set of jump leads and a spare tin of spam who fancies getting into the brain transplant game.

    But it could also be a scene from Trainspotting 10 where the lads are now all living in an old folks’ home…
    (apologies for swearing)

    Auld guy- “Jeremy Corbyn is I think the best thing that’s happened to the Labour Party, but but I am not voting Labour this time because they have not promised to come out of Europe, simple as that, so I’m going to vote for Liberal Democrats”

    Begbie- “Some cunt’s dropped an acid in that auld cunt’s sherry…
    …Nae cunt leaves here till we find out which cunt done it”

  17. HandandShrimp says:

    Maybe he was ripping the pish out of Pienaar? I mean who wouldn’t.

  18. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Dr Jim @ 8.05pm

    I actually suspect that may be occurring in some places. Kindly carehome owner helping to collect the postal votes.

    Dont like postal votes, really bad idea.

  19. handclapping says:

    There are two sorts of accountants, bright guys and thick as two short planks. This is one of the bright guys!

  20. Clapper57 says:

    He is not alone….it is a sign of the time we are all currently living in.

    We have had the Stone Age…the Bronze Age…the Iron Age…

    Now we are living in the (stupid) C*nt Age.

  21. Zen Broon says:

    Half the population is below average intelligence.

  22. james mallon says:

    Great remarks, I used to listen to shitbags who were commies, bought a shit council house,or bought a house via an EEC miners grant (4 grand I think) then they looked down on their parents and neighbours then aligned to Maggie Thatcher.
    There was one guy who worked in the pits who worked all the overtime going he preached Maggie Thatcher. He chapped my socialist door one morning tears in his eyes and burst out “mah pits been fkn closed cannae get in the fkn gate, Thatchers closed the pit down and the pits fkn flooded cause they shut of the pumps, it’s cost me mah OT shift”.
    He was an instan Commie how things change when your the fkr who has to eat the shit you sowed due to illusions ( as quoted, in short, thick bastards)
    The field out the back of my house is now a fkn quagmire of shit wetlands due to pits shutting down. An environmental fkn disaster for coal greed and partly caused by fkn labour policies.
    Make sure there is no anti environmental fkn frackin, the global warming will accelerate and end up fkn up these mad capitalist due to suicide caused by the Organisational greedy bastards.
    Real socialism can only assist and ease the pain for our future kids.bear in mind all our families will suffer.
    We need politics to be run without mythical democracy, we need to be electing responsible people by having the voting public educated (pass a fkn test) before the democratic system destroys.
    I do not believe in party politics and I admire the Wings Over Scotland stance in trying to get a point across and an honest outcome of ridding ourselves of British Establishment hooray fkrs.
    Sturgeon should make a stance against non elected gentry and hangers on, including the Royal family, it is obvious there are parts of London who have it in for the Royals, the press are hovering, why not fkn privatise it then it can go fkn bankrupt.aye and the fkn Lords.
    If privatisation is that good get Fkn Sanska or Fkn Serco to do the business.
    Cannae stop writing, I only posted to make a comment on the comments.
    Great comments

  23. Clapper57 says:

    Prominent ‘liberal’ minded remainers incandescent with rage at how biased journalists including, or rather especially, the BBC are….

    Hmm they have just noticed now !…..why ?…Hmm cause it affects them because of Brexit obvs.

    Please do not worry normal service will be resumed come Indy Ref 2 and they will once again…be silent on this bias…and unite, once again, in a combined vow of silence because once again…it will affect them…but in a different way….Hmm.

  24. ScottieDog says:

    I travelled down south the day after indyref 1. Two memorable things on that trip
    1) M6 services – busses full of English activists on their way home having been paid to campaign for better together
    2) conversation with a very enlightened (not that I thought it at the time!) English gentlemen. He commiserated with m and he too was disappointed. He saw indyref as an opportunity for the English left to rise up. He also assured me that Boris Johnson would be prime minister. I laughed and said that was ridiculous. I mean people can’t be that daft surely. He replied that Scots have always been better educated. His words.

  25. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

    Anybody who can’t see the E-M-P-H-A-T-I-C independence message in that Alan Cumming campaign ad either needs their head examined, or is just wilfully blind to it. One of the greatest indy ads I’ve ever seen.

    Fuk WM. Fuk fascism.’Mon the SNP.

  26. Republicofscotland says:


    I watch the BBC’s leader debate, and putting aside that only Sturgeon is the real leader, all the rest are branch office managers, I weirdly enjoyed this particular debate.

    Dressed in a bright Labourish red two piece suit, (maybe a hint to Corbyn through Leonard) Sturgeon pipped in my opinion Leonard yes Leonard to top spot, even the normally intransigent Sarah Smith appeared to warm slightly to Sturgeon, or at least her replies to her questions.

    Rennie excelled on mental health, but nothing else and Carlaw gripped his podium as if in a state of fear, at being asked a tricky poser on Boris Johnson. Needless to say Carlaw was taciturn for most of the hour slot on all matters except you guessed it independence.

  27. crazycat says:

    @ msean at 8.20

    He might do, but if so he’s out of luck:

  28. One_Scot says:

    I once read someone saying something along the lines that you are never too old to vote and how dare anyone say old people should not get to vote.

    Well clearly you can be.

  29. Republicofscotland says:

    A small independent nation who left the UK and joined the EU. Now I wonder what other country should follow suit…hmm.

    “Ireland has the third highest quality of life in the world, according to a new study by the United Nations.”

  30. Andrew Morton says:

    I worked at a large insurance company in Manchester at the time of the 1992 general election. David, our Senior Liability Insurance Underwriter (a job that isn’t given to stupid people), on the afternoon of polling declared that he was off home to vote Labour. The next morning In the office cursing all the idiots who had voted John Major back into power I said, “Who on earth would have been so stupid as to vote Tory?” There was an awkward pause before someone said, “Actually, David did!”

    “I got into the polling booth and panicked.” he said.

  31. dakk says:

    Needed a laugh. Got one.

    They’ll be dancing in the streets of Milngavie

    Almost as bad as people who want independence for Scotland considering not voting SNP.

  32. Capella says:

    Posting the SNP election video again. Alan Cumming presents A Cristmas Carol in great style. Go on, watch it:

  33. Capella says:

    Or on youtube where you can resize:

  34. Famous15 says:

    I laughed when I first saw it but perhaps Stu could get him to vote for the Wings party instead of the SNP.I do know where he lives,the old accountant of course!

  35. Sharny Dubs says:

    Now we approach the looking glass.

    Who dares look in?

    It doesn’t matter,

    Soon we will all be squeezed through one way or the other.

    Come on Scotland time to call a taxi.

  36. boris says:

    Church leaders have emphasized that simply being attracted to someone of the same sex is not a sin and that God loves all of his children.

    But those wishing to maintain full membership in the Church are required to commit to a life of celibacy.

    The Mormon Church states unequivocally that marriage and sexual relations can only be between a man and a woman who promise complete loyalty to each other and that homosexuality is contrary to God’s plan for his children.

    Members in same-sex marriages are considered to be apostates which is an excommunicable offence.

  37. Dr Jim says:

    Tonights debate was an example of voter stupidity when you consider that the BBC invites a whole load of ordinary voters into a studio where they present 4 politicians 3 of whom are office managers who have as much power as the tea lady/man because they take their orders from London and only one politician who can actually do anything albeit with the limited power she has due to voter stupidity by allowing the other three into the position of being able to vote against her having any power in the first place

    The Smith Commission, that allowed three office managers of England based parties to do what their bosses told them to do and vote against their own country getting any power

    The SNP don’t control Scotland’s own money, only a percentage of it, that gives the other parties the opportunity to complain the SNP are never doing enough because they make sure they can’t by never allowing Scotland to keep its own money

    Surely that’s the point of Independence, you have your own money and you spend it on what you need, not just some of it and the next door neighbour keeps the rest and spends it on what they want, then when they run out they borrow money and assign a portion of that debt to Scotland

    There really are punters in Scotland who don’t seem to grasp that, Scotland doesn’t have a UK sofa, we’re not *allowed* that luxury

    I bet there are quite a hefty load of people living in Scotland who’ve never been further than their local Tesco let alone England so what the hell do they think they’re complaining about when the say they don’t want Independence, if it happened tomorrow by an act of Parliament or some other legal method they wouldn’t even know the difference till somebody down the pub told them
    and their football team would still be footballing on Saturday just like the week before, because that’s the really important thing

  38. Graeme says:

    It’s shite being Scottish

    I never got excited about the indyref in 2014, something deep down told me right from the get go we weren’t gonna win it, we’re Scots losing is what we do.

    Even when we went ahead in the polls for the first time I knew somehow we’d find a way to fall behind again, and sure enough along came the vow and we bought it an obvious tissue of lies & deceit but we bought it

    I woke early the following morning after the vote to watch the results come in and it soon became apparent we lost, Scotland lost again, it didn’t surprise me it was no more than I was expecting, yet in spite of that I was devastated, tears of despair ran down my face

    When I got into work a unionist friend called me to have a good gloat and laugh putting and end to a long term friendship.

    I very soon resided myself to the fact I’ll probably never see an Independent Scotland in my lifetime we blew it nothing new there

    Then we had the General Election landslide of 2015, 56 out of 59 seats went to the SNP, I began to feel hope although I knew it was too soon after the Indyref to bring about independence but it would keep the fires burning and at least show we were not going back in our box

    Then came the EU ref, at that time I never had a strong opinion on the EU I didn’t really know much about it but I voted remain in the hope that England would vote leave creating the perfect storm for another indyref and so it came to pass

    I remember listening To Nicolas speech at Bute House immediately after the result was announced and suddenly I started to believe I might yet see it in my lifetime, game on

    Since then it’s been a rollercoaster ride of highs and lows one day I feel independence is just round the corner the next day it seems light years away, I felt gutted when we lost 21 MP’s in 2017 & elated when Boris Johnstone became the English PM just recently we reached 50/50 in the polls and only last week we’re back down to 47%, I just can’t understand with all that’s going on and the way they’re treating us we’re not in the high 70’s, WTF is wrong with us.

    But in spite of all the lows I’ve felt since the EU Ref I’ve never felt this low, I’m rapidly losing faith in Nicola and the SNP in general and sadly they’re the only hope we have,

    I hope youre wrong Stu but I wouldn’t take that bet even if I had the money

    I don’t know how much more I can take of this

  39. Bobby McBee says:

    Be fair on the old guy, the Lib Dems have probably been bombarding his retirement home with letters from Mike Smithson saying only voting Lib Dem will get Brexit done.

  40. Surrender Joris says:

    SNP down to just 41 seats in the new YouGov projection, most of their notional “gains” in toss-up territory and therefore far from certain, Scottish Labour looking safe in far more seats than they should, and the Tories possibly even GAINING from the SNP. Realistically, we could still be looking at a net loss of seats for the SNP, if Labour have somehow got their act together in their former heartlands.

    And if that’s what plays out on Thursday, then it’s really about time for Sturgeon to throw in the towel and hand the party over to someone else. Because this will be the second Westminster election in a row she will have fumbled. And this one in particularly should have been a total open goal for the SNP.

  41. robbo says:

    The UK is shite. Who wants to buy my hoose?-swear am fecking out o here.

  42. Scozzie says:

    My mum recently told me my niece wants to go live in Germany. I said Brexit will put a stop to that. My mum asked why? I explained freedom of movement etc…She said oh I thought Brexit was only stopping people coming over here to live!!!
    Old people eh!!!

  43. mike cassidy says:

    Meant to post this here – not the last topic.

    We’re not the only ones hoping the SNP hold the balance of power.

    Nicola Sturgeon vows to use SNP influence in hung parliament to champion ‘world-leading’ LGBT reforms

    (Ta, Brian)

  44. Dr Jim says:

    The bookies have the SNP on 45 seats

  45. kapelmeister says:

    The Thicker of Wakefield.

  46. Surrender Joris says:

    Dr Jim, the bookies are influenced by punters guesswork, some of which is educated guessing and some of which isn’t. Polling is almost always going to be more accurate than bookies. And the polls look to have taken a turn for the worse.

  47. dadsarmy says:

    Nicola Sturgeon 56%
    Jackson Carlaw 28%
    Richard Leonard 8%
    Willie Rennie 9%

    Votes cast: 639

  48. Terry callachan says:

    Don’t believe polls
    They lie to you
    They are run by the same thieving lying bunch that run Westminster

    Their plan is to continually run down everything Scottish and lie about the SNP
    Their plan is also to continually run down the Labour Party and lie about the conservatives having a lead bigger than it is

    Wise up

    Greeting face Graeme and surrender joris you should know better

  49. Bob Mack says:


    Take it all, then take some more This is about Inde
    endence ,not the SNP. I will vote for any party who vows to give me that chance.

    Right now the SNP are the only viable game in town, but that can change as well. There are people like !esley Riddcoch talking about a new party.

    We tough it out till we get what we want, but inevitably this meandering route has to stop somewhere. If the SNP fudge the Indy issue, someone will ultimate!y claim their throne.

  50. tartanfever says:

    You Gov just released their final MRP model and have a small Tory majority (28) and the SNP on 41 seats.

    However, they have an SNP loss to the Tories in Lanark and East Hamilton. Thats Angela Crawley if I’m not mistaken.

  51. Sinky says:

    Newsnight and Kirsty Wark in full Unionist mode

  52. HYUFD says:

    Yougov MRP has SNP 41 seats, Scottish Tories 9, Scottish Labour 5 and Scottish LDs 4.

    So all the Unionist parties now forecast to hold most of their seats and the Tories to gain Lanark and Hamilton East from the SNP

  53. Mary McCabe says:

    People in this country are actively discouraged from taking any interest in politics.

    My son did Higher Modern Studies in 1999, the year the Scottish Parliament was established, and in the whole course there was no mention of devolution, the referendum, or the fact we were getting a new Parliament.

    Today the Tories are busy peddling the yawn factor. In Scotland for a long time their ONLY policy has been: “Stop the indyref! Nobody wants a second referendum.It’s such a CHORE to go across the road to your local school to mark your cross. Don’t worry yur pretty little heads with taking decisions. Leave all that to us.”

    Labour has always seen democracy in paternalistic terms: redistribution of wealth and income but not of power.

    That elderly man probably has little interest in politics and vaguely imagines the LibDems as they used to be. Watered-down everything. Therefore a harmless alternative when you go off your usual habit-vote.

  54. Unionist Media BDSM Club says:

    Perhaps the people desperate for Nicola to resign could clarify that they still want her to do so if we somehow fluke holding the balance of power in a hung parliament, with the prospect of iref2 in a couple of years. Feel free to copy and paste the following:

    “I am so furious with Mad Mental Nicky that no matter what happens in this GE, not excluding the SNP holding the balance of power, and/or winning 50 seats, I want her to resign tomorrow morning, the day before the election, preferably handing the resignation letter to me personally while begging my forgiveness, and if that’s not possible commit harikari on live TV on Thursday night. I can provide the sword.”

  55. Davie Oga says:

    I couldn’t care less if The SNP want to promise that they are going to issue passports with an X gender or that other countries are going to share their delusional fantasy and actually overhaul their entire immigration systems and actually accept them but I do care about this-

    14 days 0 hours 29 minutes

    Vote SNP

  56. Meindevon says:

    Well, down here I have actually changed my mind about who I’m voting for. With no SNP it’s tricky.

    We’ve actually had very few leaflets through the door. Maybe three from Labour two from Tories and one from Lib Dem’s. A bit different to what has been happening in Scotland it seems. Labour was the only ones to knock the door. Twice.

    After the last few years of this utter fiasco in Westminster I had said several times I would never vote for any of the main three parties here again. But this is a labour seat and losing it to Tories would be tough to take.

    Yesterday Ben Bradshaw (Labour MP) himself came to the door. We’ve talked before about Scottish independence before and he knows how I feel about the lies and threats and refusal from labour to work with the SNP when Milliband was the boss.

    He told me the family of his Scottish partner are now virtually all in favour of independence for Scotland whereas they were unionists before. He said if the Tories get in and Brexit goes ahead he was sure Scotland would leave the U.K. and we would just be “isolated little England”. His words. He also agreed with me that Johnson cannot stop another indyref. “Self determination” he said. I suggested the SG may go to the UN and he agreed.

    I also received a personal letter from him this morning. And as I have always considered him to be a fairly good MP I will vote for him although not necessarily for Labour.

    I think.

  57. dadsarmy says:

    Boris Johnson is looking increasingly unsafe.

    Your hero!

  58. SOG says:

    I’m sure the media do the vox pop part of the early evening news during the early afternoon. And the bulk of people they interview are not working. It shows, time after time, even if the media aren’t being selective.

  59. HandandShrimp says:

    The latest MRP poll shows a squeeze towards the middle. So a repeat of 2017 is possible. The poll might rightly be of concern to us but I would imagine it will cause a flutter in Tory HQ too. A further slip and it is back to hung parliament territory.

    On SNP tactics, Nicola did well in the debates and was generally considered both here and in England to be the most polished and capable. Independence was to the fore as we all wanted and she was clear on Remain in the EU. I can’t recall any slip ups.

    As ever, the media were hostile but that is a given. They were hostile to Labour too. The BBC in particular, once considered lefties, managed to make a series of errors that favoured Johnson and attacked Corbyn. Here the BBC have incessantly attacked the SNP over health and education in conjunction with opposition politicians. Not all that honestly either.

    If we finish the night on 40 or more seats we should consider ourselves having successfully swum against a pretty vicious tide. That is 68% of the seats. The equivalent of Johnson getting 440 seats which would be lauded by the press as a total humping of Corbyn and licence to more or less do as he likes.

    It would be great to see a repeat of 2015 but the public are exhausted, fed up and confused. I’m not sure any party will ever match that feat. A solid win is what we need.

  60. Dr Jim says:

    Kirsty Wark’s face on newsnight as Michael Russell told her every word she said was untrue as she took a very long time on the BBC script saying ye cannae huv this and ye cannae get that and ye wullny get anything

    Michael Russell was in fine form as he did everything but call her a liar to her face and she did not like it one bit

  61. Dr Jim says:

    GCC say they have received 5.5 thousand fewer postal votes than this time in 2017 which I guess is a good sign there are less Tories voting because even when they’re able bodied they never have the guts to show up in person to sell out the country

  62. HYUFD says:

    MeinDevon The SNP on just 41% in Scotland with Yougov MRP tonight is no mandate for indyref2 and of course the UN has not acted against Spain for refusing an Independence referendum in Catalonia despite the nationalist Government there and the UK has a veto at the UN Security Council unlike Spain

  63. Clapper57 says:

    I’ve found a great way NOT to get angry nay incensed at debate shows, news programmes via press reviews, BBC Scotland radio via Kaye Adams et al, Scotland Tonight, BBC QT Time, Debate Night, Newsnight, Sunday Politics, Politics live, Andrew Marr show, Leaders debates ( UK & Scottish ),All out Politics (Sky),Campaign show ( BBC 1/9 Scotland )….

    Don’t watch them.

    If I don’t want to be force fed propaganda then I can choose NOT to watch any of the above.

    I will vote SNP on Thursday and will vote for independence in the next Referendum…so why the actual f*&% should I torture myself by willingly choosing to watch uber ‘British’ and uber Unionist biased misinformation that does not represent me or anything I agree with or want….why ?…when I already know who I will vote for and what I will support….simples…well it is for me….

    I did once upon a time watch the above programmes when I was going through my masochistic stage …then the GE was announced and I thought…f*&% that…where’s my book, that film I want to watch,that band I want to go and see and even that paint I need to watch dry etc etc.

    If nothing else …no longer will there be a threat of my needing to be fitted for a straight jacket to wear in a vacant padded cell with my name on the door…bliss….just don’t mention the Lib Dems to me…oh and the Labour party….oh and the Tories…and ….my God the list is fecken endless…where’s my book…no it’s not the Bible….I swear….

    Voting SNP on Thursday…Tommy Shepherd good guy and fabby hard working MP for Edinburgh East….

    SNP…vote SNP on Thursday…you know it makes sense…unless you can vote in Neale Hanvey’s area..if so vote for Neale Hanvey.

  64. K1 says:

    Scotland’s a country you nitwitted fumbledbrained diddy.

  65. Clapper57 says:

    @ K1 says @ 11 December, 2019 at 1:04 am

    “Scotland’s a country you nitwitted fumbledbrained diddy”.

    I trust K1, you were referring in this comment to the previous poster and not me….Lol

    If I could add something else onto my list via my above comment at 1.04am….and sure you will agree with me K1….scrolling past certain posters also helps separate the wheat from the chaff on political blogs…Lol

  66. Dr Jim says:

    Pay no attention to the nitwit Tory failure from Epping in England, he thinks Scotland is owned by England like they think they own Northern Ireland and that’s about to come to an end as well

    I’ve got relatives on both side of the sectarian divide and they’re casting aside differences now for a poll, plus the under 25s like Scotland are over 70% for reunification

    It’s unfortunately my rotten generation who won’t even be here to accept the consequences of more British rule that are buggering up young people’s futures

  67. lumilumi says:

    Maybe democracy isn’t all it’s crancked up to be.

    “I’m not going to vote for Labour because they haven’t promised to take us out of Europe… so I’ll vote for the LibDems.”


    I’m more and more leaning towards a benevolent dictatorship. (Not the dictatorship envisaged by Johnson and the Tory party in their manifesto p. 48 because that isn’t benevolent.)

    How can a democracy function if the voters are so ill-informed?

    How can a democracy function if press and broadcast media don’t do their job and hold power to account?

    Scrutinise! Instead of cheerleading or smearleading, turning a serious undertaking – running a country – into a trivial game of personality, oneupmanship and manufactured “scandal”. Cheap entertainment, in which serious and complex issues have no place, it’s all soundbites and Queen’s Christmas messages and the PM pocketing a journalist’s phone.

    Don’t people nowadays think at all about WHAT they want their country to BE? Is it too difficult? Is it easier to look back and regress to a comfortable past that never actually existed?

    A lot of Scots, let’s say around a half, ARE looking to the future, imagining things that could be, a country that could be. Make it better for everyone, for future generations.

    It’s only possible if Scotland gets rid of the ugly ball and chain of the class and entitlement -ridden, undemocratic (no written constitution, FPTP), arrogant and ignorant but population-wise dominant “partner”.

    Last week, 6.12., my country celebrated 101 years of independence. We like it, we’ve got used to it, but it’s been hard-won, and we know it.

    This week, some English journalist nitwit opinied that Finland’s new PM is too young and too female to be a PM of a country with such a long (1600 km, 1000 mies) land border with Russia.


    Would he want MI6 to take over our premiership. Preferrably a middle-aged man?

  68. HYUFD says:

    Dr Jim The DUP still lead Northern Ireland polls and the Boris Deal avoids a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland anyway

  69. Dr Jim says:

    @ lumilumi 1:23am

    The problem with women politicians is they keep answering back even when the butler has been sent to tell them not to by the master of the house and the Tories blame that Angela Merkel woman for starting all this

    What with you uppity lot over there in Finland electing women and Scotland having *one of them* along with other countries around the world, this has got to stop

    Now just hoist up you petticoats and get back in the kitchen seeing to the needs of the masters house where you belong

    Damn women talking, what next by jove

    I think I’ve caught the general vibe there

  70. lumilumi says:

    HYUFD says:
    11 December, 2019 at 1:32 am

    Dr Jim The DUP still lead Northern Ireland polls and the Boris Deal avoids a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland anyway

    I’d think DUP and their “loyalist” ilk would rather have a border on the island of Ireland, separating them from the… uhm… Irish, rather than have a border in the Irish Sea, separating them from the teat of Mother Britannia.

    Boris Johnson, as a PM, put a border in the Irish Sea. DUP and “loyalists” might regret propping up the previous and this government. Maybe not realising any Westminster parliament and goverment is essentially an English one. Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland don’t really matter, English MPs can always outvote them.

  71. Dr Jim says:

    You must be a member of Densa son, I have relatives there, I go there, I’ve worked there and Boris’s deal does no such thing as you say

    One other thing, there’ll be no trouble in Northern Ireland, it’ll arrive there where you are, the Irish learned that lesson from last time, the sectarian divide is strong but their hatred of the Brits is now stronger and they very much like the look of their cousins in the Republic with 5.6% economic growth figures the highest in Europe while the UK languishes in 25th place of 28 on 1.3% even Greece is higher on 1.8%

    You have no idea, get out more, stop reading the Daily Mail and the Telegraph, the DUP stand alone in Northern Ireland now, just like your Tories they’ve been found out and when the Irish come to a conclusion it’s a done deal over kaput

    The Republic threw you out and so will the North

  72. K1 says:

    Yes Clapper not you, and yes, rarely note his pish, but every once in a while…grr

  73. Dr Jim says:

    Sorry, lumilumi I was scribbling while you were answering, my post is meant of course for our know it all in the land of our overlords

  74. mr thms says:

    Dr Jim @ 12:32 am

    He told her these were the facts not fake news. He must have been watching the programme from the start which was about fake news. Fake programmes are worse. Every second reeked of confirmation bias. It was the BBC at its election interfering best. Hope the viewers saw through the manipulation.

  75. dadsarmy says:

    Here’s one for HIFUD – one of our Blue Imperial Masters

    And if that doesn’t incentivise people to go out and vote SNP tomorrow, I don’t know what will.

  76. Sarah says:

    @lumilumi and Dr Jim: it is refreshing to come on and read your interesting and sociable chat. Thank you! I’m only awake due to a headache and worrying about the polls – fretting over why the BBC and others are letting Johnson and his crew get away with destroying any semblance of decency and democracy.

    So it is good to be reminded that there are intelligent, kindly people wanting the best for everyone.

  77. Giving Goose says:

    Re Yougov polling.
    Don’t they tend to ask older voters and poll lower numbers of younger voters?

  78. Robert Louis says:

    But this is the problem, since the day the election was called, the entire mainstream news media have been running with the totally fake narrative that Labour folk won’t vote Labour this time, because of brexit. They have literally been telling those folk how to vote.

    The UK is utterly f***ed. I mean, utterly and totally. Because if you let the Tories in, you don’t just get brexit, you get NHS sold to america, cuts to social care, cuts to education, cuts to transport, and rampant, rampant racism and xenophobia, all presided over by an utter c*** of a tory, who verges on fascism.

    I will be voting SNP, and will urge others to do the same. In Scotland, their really is no other rational choice. Scotland needs out of the union with England asap, we need that referendum in 2020. The FM has clearly stated that it will happen, so now we must vote SNP and assume she is not lying.

    Their is no other way. The SNP orffer Scotland a way out, a route which nobody else is offering. We can only take them at their word, and vote. Yes, they are not perfect, but for heaven’s sake, anything else will be too awful for words. If we do not all get out and vote SNP, then I really dread what will become of Scotland.

    As regards the man in the film above, i fear he will be one of many in England, duped into voting for Tories, due to brexit hubris and spin, and will see Johnson elected as PM on the 13th December. He will then sit and weep for the next five years when all his local facilities, social care, library, kids clubs, schools, and hospital are closed down or trashed.

    In England, only a fool will vote Tory in this election. Only a fool. In Scotland, only a fool would not vote SNP.

    On 13th December, their will I fear, be many who will suddenly realise the stupidity of their somewhat petulant actions in the polling booth, the day before.

    I am often reluctant to use a somewhat over-used quotation from Mark Renton, in trainspotting, but in this instance, it is warranted. “It’s a sh*te state of affairs, Tommy, and all the fresh air in the world, won’t make any f**ing difference”.

    Aye, it really, really is. Time for Scotland to get out of it. Time for independence. Time to vote SNP.

  79. Graeme says:

    Terry callachan says:
    10 December, 2019 at 10:55 pm

    Greeting face Graeme and surrender joris you should know better


    Terry do yourself a favour give up on the name calling you’re only making yourself look childish

  80. ScottieDog says:

    “In England, only a fool will vote Tory in this election.”
    And of course the selfish elderly rentier class. Those who made good from the property bubble (the victims of which weren’t even born yet)

    I fear this election is just another pulse and not the final explosion that U.K. politics needs.

    I’ve found a bit of solace though. My dad – long time Tory voter has had enough of them.

  81. Corrado Mella says:

    @Zen Broon: “Half of the population is below average intelligence.”

    Witty but stupid remark.

    When 99 people are at 99 and one is at 10,000 the average is 198.10.
    99% of this people sample have half the average intelligence.

    And that’s what happens in population distribution: average dross chuntering on and unappreciated geniuses that barely scratch the surface.

    This is exactly why I doggedly insist that voting should be weighed.

    On your ballot paper you get a random multiple answer social studies question.

    You don’t answer it, your vote counts one.
    You answer incorrectly, your vote doesn’t count.
    Answer it right, and your vote counts twice.

    Reward knowledge, punish ignorance.

  82. CM says:

    Meanwhile, Bougainville just voted overwhelmingly for independence and it’s even published quite widely on the BBC website. Shock horror!

  83. Sinky says:

    Two Labour hacks on BBC Gms discussing last night’s debate and claiming Richard Leonard was the star. Didn’t see it but it must have been dull.

  84. JBeee73 says:

    Like many I’m pretty nervous about the result tomorrow but am still hopeful that we can get up towards 45 seats. Anything above 40 with 40%+ of the vote would be decent, particularly if it sees the back of Kerr, Hair, Graham and Masterton (my utterly useless MP). Regardless of the result my wife has had her eyes opened by this campaign and now sees the BBC for what they are. She has moved from Tory/No to SNP/Yes, something I doubted would ever happen. She’s even persuaded her 70+ mother not to vote Tory (she won’t vote SNP “because she hates that Nicola”).

  85. Joe says:

    @ Corrado Mella

    What a wonderfully well thought out and clearly proposed bunch of utter bollocks.

  86. Golfnut says:

    @ Robert Louis.

    Good post, the SNP certainly aren’t perfect, but it has to be said in comparison to what, Labour or tory or the fibdems. I have had only 2 leaflets through my door, 1 Tory and one SNP. No canvassers from any party except the SNP, and that was our MP Alan Brown, delivering our letters on the way to the fitba. Our wee Frenchie, managed I think to pee on his shoe, but that was only because he was so excited to see him again, since he had a starring role in Alan’s election video and his campaign leaflet. My point is, that its been pretty damn quite, for what is undoubtedly a pivotal GE campaign, at least in my neck of the woods. If there are swings in the polls, it sure as hell hasn’t happened because of the local campaigns by the opposition, at least from my own personal experiences.

  87. Joe says:

    @ Graeme

    My advice – cut out the emotion to the extent that it is. Its not healthy. Theres too much uncertainty and shenanigans to be that affected. If you cant then do something positive towards the goal. Sitting around feeling shite wont help anybody

  88. kapelmeister says:

    See former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern was in Bougainville to oversee the referendum as part of a Bougainville Referendum Commission. We could have done with similar in 2014.

  89. Joe says:

    @ lumilumi

    Its a balancing act. Theres a heirarchy of capital/money and theres a heirarchy of political power. Allow one of these too much room or allow them to work together too closely and you get disaster for normal people

  90. Graeme says:

    Thanks for the advice Joe but for some this is an emotive subject and as it happens I do do what I can, I livestream for Indylive when I can, I have 2 demanding grandchildren and a business to run so I don’t have as much time as I would like, the last livestream I did was the Dunfermline march, I subscribe to the SNP and have donated to various crowdfunders.

    None of the above stops me feeling were pissing against the wind at times

  91. Ottomanboi says:

    Conceivably there are those in Scotland who support independence who will tactically vote for a unionist party.
    Whatever ideological issues with the SNP, it is the only choice for Scots with a functioning brain.
    This GE is potentially revolutionary, a harbinger of a Scottish Spring, provided the icy blast of political cowardice/ignorance ie default unionism, doesn’t strike.

  92. Joe says:


    Like the people who respected alex salmond and are watching him be driven out with metoo style b.s? Or watching the singular disregard for the basic rights for women? Maybe a party that acts against the basic societal interests of 50% of the population is just tickety boo for you but there are other opinions. With brains.

  93. Joe says:

    Oh yes…doing all this after having had the mps and the mandate to start on the indy track….yet we who are skeptical are without the brains i suppose

  94. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I note, further up this thread, one or two of the regulars discussing the situation in Northern Ireland.

    England will dump N.I>, and facilitate the reunification of that islands, when it becomes uneconomic to continue to subsidise that province. Another couple of years of Arlene and Co digiing-in ther heels, of Stormont lying empty and BJ and Co will cut them loose.

    Scotland, on the other hand, they cannot afford to lose. Since we subsidise them, they will use every dirty trick int he book to hold us fast.

    Unless we in the Independence movement up our game, and take back our freedom, Scotland will never be free of its English anchor until the day after the final barell of oil is extracted from Scottish waters, the Angels get greedy and all the whisky evaporates, the wind stops blowing and the tides cease running on our renewable energy.

    On that day, Scotland will be allowed to go free from England, by the English. So, before then, we need to up our game and break-out by our own efforts.

    And right now, there are some within the SNP who I don’t think are trying as hard as they might.

  95. Ahundredthidiot says:

    Back to school for Joe I think

  96. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Just seen a Hootsmon story, the good Colonel Davidson has promised to skinny dip in Loch Ness, if the SNP wins 50 seats.

    Let’s hope this is yet another Tory lie – I mean, we cannot have a national treasure putting herself in harm’s way.

    Nessie must be protected from possibly encountering a naked Tory-leaning Lesbian.

  97. Daisy Walker says:

    Graeme at 1035pm

    Hang on in there Graeme. I felt similar to yourself earlier this year, but I’m getting my second (or maybe 3rd) wind.

    I share lots of the fears many on this site have expressed re the SNP.

    And the fact remains – at present, they are the only route to indy.

    Lets get this GE out of the way and make plans/changes.

    Keep on keeping on folks, if only to demoralise our enemies.

  98. Daisy Walker says:

    Quick question, has there been any SNP billboard campaigns anywhere in the country?

    The party were asking for money for this a few weeks ago.

    Led By Donkeys are certainly showing them how to do it.

  99. kapelmeister says:

    Liberal leader Archibald Sinclair lost his Caithness & Sutherland seat in the 1945 general election. And that was with him going into the election with the kudos of having been an important minister in the wartime coalition government.

    So Liberal leaders can lose their seats. And we remember the very different sort of coalition that Jo Swinson was a minister in.

  100. Giving Goose says:

    If we take the example of the man interviewed in the video above, then his attitude is not untypical of many people.
    The idea of “Britishness” and the power of it’s attraction is still strong with certain demographics in society.
    It’s easy to dismiss this as a diet of to many “Commando comics”, continual reruns on the TV of “Sink the Bismark” etc,

    But the reality of this mindset is one that has to be acknowledged.

    This man exhibits British Nationalism and it is clouding his vision.

    In Scotland this mindset is shared by many potential voters and this will probably be reflected in the results on Friday.

    I do believe that that we are on a journey and that this UK General Election is just one step of several more that need to be taken.

    A crucial one is the actual experience of Brexit – remember that the UK hasn’t actually Brexited and that pain still has to be experienced.

    Operation Yellowhammer, potential food shortages, rotting strawberry crops, potential troops on the streets – all that hasn’t happened yet.

    There may be several years of political and economic chaos to be witnessed before the Scottish public wake up to the reality and when Brexit really starts to bite then no amount of Union Jack bunting and Royal babies is going to mask the truth.

    So I would urge people to be patient, especially on Friday, as the results come in.

    There almost certainly needs to be a change in the nature of the conversation regarding Independence, for instance, I would like to hear a narrative around free prescriptions etc where Unionists should be encouraged to pay back prescription charges so that those who actually appreciate Scotland can benefit. Same for University tuition and Care for the elderly.

    Unionists in Scotland are actually materially subsidised by the morality of the Yes movement.

  101. Breeks says:

    Heads up for Alan Cumming’s Scottish Christmas Carol… I thought it was pretty good. We need much, much, much more of this.

  102. boris says:

    Asked about his thoughts about claims that Scotland being subsidized by England he reminded the questioner that Joel Barnett, (he of the Barnett formula), was his deputy at the Treasury at the time the share of the national income pot Scotland should receive was decided.

    He added:

    ” Scotland pays more than its fair share and these myths are simply perpetuated to cloud the issue by those that are opposed to independence.”

  103. Phronesis says:

    Scotland, the country and her citizens have a very simple reason to vote SNP on Thursday. That one reason is to save our most precious institution for present and future generations, and it’s not the mal-functioning UK,

  104. Willie says:

    Corrada @8.04.

    And what exactly is your point about half the population being below average intelligence.

    By average do you mean mean, or do you mean median. Is the bell curve equal in distribution on either side. It’s an interesting point because is it the below average who make the correct voting decision whilst the above average don’t.

    In social terms are the lumpen more likely to be poor and vote for more socially equal policies whilst more intelligent are more likely to be wealthier and vote for narrower self interest. An interesting question especially since the English working class together with their patrician benefactors tend to wards Tory whilst in Scotland the Yories are by comparison a marginal party.

    Culture I think Corrada, as opposed to intelligence is the driver for political opinion and electoral choice. What else would drive voters to reject the co-operation of the EU whilst at the same time vote for a party that delivers austerity and reduced social provision. More significantly what electoratevwould vote for a party that would in a heartbeat privatise the NHS to deliver a USA type system.

    Let us see what tomorrow brings. Vote SNP.

  105. HandandShrimp says:

    Tories really adding to the postie’s sack. Over the last three days I’ve had 4 Tory leaflets (well 3 and letter which I never bothered opening). That must cost a packet to do for every house. Obviously they are in squeaky bum mode. If this ends in a hung parliament I think there will be queues of politicians seeking therapy (maybe a fair few voters too).

    The people have spoken, the bastards! As Duck Tuck famously said.

  106. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Sarah (2.22) –

    Forgive me being nosey, but was it yourself on BC at the weekend there?

    In any case, welcome!


  107. Iain mhor says:

    I don’t know, perhaps his logic was a protest vote.
    If you have only three choices and you definitely won’t vote Tory, how do you hold ‘your party’ to account if all you have recourse to is a ballot? Hmmm maybe not – just trying to be fair to the auld boy.
    How would you hold an Independence party to account today, a stern twittering, or campaign vociferously in any weather, start a movement of your own? Maybe not.

    Still, we always get the government we deserve apparently. Is there any real passion around politics? Last I saw petered out in the 80’s. You couldn’t vent your rage and frustration at a keyboard in prior decades, you had to actually be out on the street, around communal meeting places, friends houses, pubs and clubs, belt out protest songs and often just belt out.

    You might never get a government you were happy with, but you felt you had given it a go, frequently a square go. Ahh the good old decades when one could indeed ‘predict a riot’ – especially if you were the one kicking it off.
    The indictment of our time is the recent ‘Arm incident’ Back in my day, if you got that close to a bastard, then “accidentally brushed against an arm” would be a euphemism used by police and protesters alike in court – usually facing the mutually bandaged. Violence and politics eh? Did it change anything really, meh, did it fuck.

    “If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in the struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolute night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos”

    Ah well, times move on, any limited passion kicks off online and it’s egos not bodies that are bruised and the heavy implement of choice is the ban-hammer, or an epithet hurled viciously from the ether. Greybeards can mix it with plooky youths with impunity.

    Should I long for the days of a good honest rammy to clear the blood? Probably not, I might be still be fast with my hands but not on my feet that’s no use on the street – old age doesn’t come itself. How do I protest now? Will I really get the government I deserve after all?

    As Teddy Roosevelt reportedly said : “If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn’t sit for a month”

    Now get off my lawn!

  108. Joe says:


    This is something well out of my scope but it occurred to me that in fudging the actual numbers of Scotland economy, particularly oil revenue, not only is this dishonest from a political sense but could it open a possibility of actual crime?

    If Scotlands contribution to the UK has been understated and the numbers tampered with, then where has the money been going?

    Examples in the rest of the world:
    – Afghanistan opium poppy production increases about 900% after the invasion
    – Iraqi oil. Billions of dollars worth of oil unaccounted for and just missing.
    – Turkish convoys of hundreds, if not thousands of trucks, taking oil from Syria while it was under the control of Isis. Which the evil Russians stopped. Even though this would have easily been known to western powers and they did nothing

    A possible extra handle for the independence movement would be to work out any discrepancies in revenues from Scotland v UK spending and reserves as this could lead to criminal implications on leading establishment figures over the decades.

  109. Republicofscotland says:

    Its interesting to note that a former Labour minister Les Huckfield, under Callaghan, is leafleting for SNP candidate John Nicolson in Ochil and South Perthshire.

    Huckfield said his friends in England will probably move to Scotland if Johnson wins this GE, and that countless folk have already moved to Scotland with their elderly parents in tow, to take advantage of Scotlands Personal Care Allowance.

    Labours Shadow Health secretary Johnathon Ashworth’s inane comments, won’t have helped Corbyn’s chances of becoming PM either.

  110. Republicofscotland says:

    What the BBC really thinks of Scottish culture.

    Mind you STV are no better, virtually carrying all of ITV’s content.

  111. mr thms says:

    A Christmas Carol – A Scotland Yet To Come

  112. callmedave says:

    My Daily Mail acquaintance in the cafe this morning shows me a grinning Ruthie threatening Scotland with a skinny dip if the SNP get 50 seats or more tomorrow.

    “I don’t like her” says the old deary.

    “But..but your a Tory” I reply!

    “I’m voting for the Lib/Dems” she declares. FGS!

    Anyhoo! Ruthie not taking any risks I think. 🙁

    98% of a wee archipelago votes for independence 300,000 folk with just the sun and a few palm trees and the guts to go for it! 🙂

  113. Bob Mack says:

    @Giving Goose,

    You make an excel!ent point. Were I a Unionist in Scotland I would vote SNP for all the reasons you give. It is easier to be a subsidised Unionist, when ultimately I vote to keep Scotland shackled to the UK.

    The SNP would never countenance such a move to make Unionists pay what their counterparts pay elsewhere of course.

    It is a dead end to give them that experience unless we all have it.

  114. jockmcx says:

    Wise old bird chews up and spits out worm!

    If as seems likely bollocks johnstones wins,and even if he
    does not, the damage to Scotland and Scots will be inescapable.

    Like in that video the anti Scotland human shites activists
    will need to be shamed before it ends.
    I understand the depression but maybe it always had to be this way.

  115. jockmcx says:

    Daisy Walker says:
    11 December, 2019 at 9:44 am

    Quick question, has there been any SNP billboard campaigns anywhere in the country?

    Yes saw a big massive one in glasgow city centre.

  116. jockmcx says:

    Mike russel did well on newsnight dabbing some truth ointment
    on krusty warts.

    This will have to be the norm from now on,no messing about.

  117. Daisy Walker says:


    Very glad to hear it. More please, none in the Perthshire area that I’ve seen.

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