Wings Over Scotland

And the Tories’ misery doesn’t end there, Rev – they’ve just lost another vote:

Nick Eardley
?6 minutes ago

Also a significant moment in shifting power back to Parliament.

Stephen Gethins can hardly be blamed though, NE Fife was a three way fight SNP/LD/Con so getting a majority is a very hard ask. Electing single constituency representatives is difficult to do fairly. In various consensus aimed systems you basically elect the least objectionable person which forces parties to put up boring nonentities.

So the least worst system is the one we use in Scotland or a variation thereof (national vs regional Lists for eg) where the unfairness in FPT constituency results is balanced by the party List vote.

Even when Ming Campbell held NE Fife he could not command majorities.

Angus Robertson a veteran? Is he 50 yet?

Ross did win Moray by a clear margin and ensured that the constituency has a vastly less capable representative in Westminster, but that was the choice of almost 48% of the voters. It has been amazinge in Moray, given the demographics and military presence in Lossiemouth and Kinloss, that a Conservative has only recently been returned as MP rather than being returned all the time. The fishing industry is nowhere near as important as it was previously, but maybe fishing families voted for Ross, forgetting that it was a Conservative government that sold out their interests and would do so again. The next WM election will be interesting in Moray, especially is the military numbers are reduced, and fishing families see the Conservatives in action again.

@Bob Mack

Heard him too. The more they tighten their grip the less in charge they become.

The Tories are fire fighting on all fronts with no idea of what to do to extricate their sorry butts from the mess they’ve got themselves into.

In other words Organised crime syndication. Where the Capo di Tutti Capo gets “elected” by a core minority vote allowing absolute domain over everybody within his or her sphere of influence. The absolute power of life and death over their finances over their standards of living over their cost of living. The power and authority to dispense “Favour” Patronage privilege to those who serves his or her best interests.
You want a favour? give me your soul your obedience your acknowledgement of my authority.
You get in my way I have an enforcement arm to deploy.

A regime of capos who indulge daily in death theft extortion intimidation gambling protection and the subversion of law and order.

I challenge anybody to prove me wrong.

And this Muppet is my MP 🙁 God how I miss Angus (sigh)

I see a few variations on the theme today of ‘finally Parliament is wrestling power back from No 10 and we are finally a Parliamentary democracy again’ or similar.

I think some pundits are over-egging this ‘change’ because it’s rather letting off all those who have voted with May every step of the way from the point of submitting Article 50 onwards, through to letting the government try to claim for itself ‘Henry VIII’ powers, but who are now (for one reason and another) hoping to present it as 100% ‘the Government tyrannised and bullied the Commons at large’.

They *always* had the power to stop her doing certain things if they had the numbers and to pretend otherwise is a bit of a sham. They just didn’t start voting to until now.

“Ross won his seat at Westminster fairly and squarely”

Let’s not forget the little issue of the dark money…

What a mess. What a spectacle. What a waste of time. Westminster point of order farce this afternoon. Conservatives like Rees – mogg spending an eternity rambling on about what forwith means in various motions/points of order /amendments etc etc. Of course people like rees – mogg will not be adversely impacted. I don’t expect to se him homeless after a no deal.

2.5 months to a no deal Brexit. This really is a joke. UK about to go up in flames and the Tories are fiddling about. How can any sane person want to be governed by Westminster.

No deal/united Ireland/independent Scotland. Still my forecast.

2019 will probably clarify if our leaders are like the Bruce or Charlies. They should be given the time to take the correct decisions.

*shrug*

There’s a problem with any voting system in that people are either voting for a party, for an individual (still happens), for what they say they represent, perhaps even a particular “crusade” they have for their constituency (bypass or rail electrification or something), or even such as Remain. Or of course Indy! Or even against another party or candidate, picking the best choice to get rid of them (for instance the useless Tory Thatcher sycophant Corrie).

So how does any election totally handle any of that lot? Perhaps the answer is to have a referendum (electronic) every time anything needs voting on, and do away with MPs and MSPs completely.

So yeah, voting sytems, *shrug*.

I wondered briefly whether a fixed maximum term would help, say 10 years, but concluded that the loss of the better, more senior members would be a loss. Perhaps a system where 75% serve a fixed term would help, thus encouraging better performance to stay in post. I am not sure even that would reduce the blind party loyalty or other self serving attitudes would be reduced and a more “common good” policy encouraged.

Mike @ 3.47pm.
I totally agree with you and always believed in this way in MPs employment. Where else would you be allowed to be a total spare part and still collect a substantial pay check for 5 years without having to be performanced reviewed. Its a bloody joke but to be fair half are a bloody joke who care little for their constituents.

Well, when I think back to Corrie and all that, makes me think of the rigs at Hunterston, British Steel, Volvo, Compaq, IBM, NatSemi and HP within range, Hyster, and of course ICI. With of course oil found out and around the Clyde, prices of houses in Ardrossan already going up back then as they taljed about it being the new Aberdeen.

North Ayrhire as they call it now was / is second highest for unemployment, the forgotten hit area when they all talk about the Central Belt, probably the only area in Scotland that never got special development status when we needed it, meaning special business grants weren’t available. And of course coal further down.

I write “North Ayrshire” but I always put “Ayrshire” when I’m able, cept you can’t with these pull down lists. Some say, well, I do, the reason they split up Ayrshire into South, East and North was because they were mortally afraid of us, and with good reason. Divided we fall, Given a chance, I’d probably vote for Independence for reunified Ayrshire, with our own currency of course.

Ho hum, said slightly tongue in cheek – or was it REALLY?

Tories don’t care who voted or didn’t vote for them once they are in.
Contrast this with Labour…..who don’t care who voted or didn’t vote for them once that are in.

However in Scotland (Holyrood) Red and Blue Tories can ignore everyone after getting a seat on the list.

Angus lost his Moray seat with a 13.6% swing to the Tories – and to the nobody called Ross Thompson.

The SNP leadership totally miss-read the GE17 and the intentions of the Tories, and their resources, in Scotland in particular.

It is difficult to imagine Theresa May surviving in the House of Commons with Alex and Angus on the SNP benches. She wanted rid of them – and made sure it happened.

Party politics… (mutters darkly). Politics as it is practised… (starts using swerry wurds).

No they’re not public servants, but party servants. Part of a system that’s been gamed to suit party interests and a largely binary political choice for a very long time. A system that allows its adherents to claim its home is the seat of absolute authority and which has absolutely no intention of changing its habits anytime soon (not at all).

Government is and should be, a job. The job of administering to the needs of a population. Looking after their best interests. Keeping them safe, helping to put food on the table, keeping a roof over your head, looking after the pennies and making them grow into pounds for that rainy day. Caring for those who fall through the cracks. That kinda thing. It should do it without fear or favour.

It should do all those things, but in the UK it doesn’t.

Seems to me, that if a thing is patently failing in its primary purpose, (see under broken beyond repair). It’s mibbies about that time to replace it with something that IS fit for purpose.

I read somewhere recently that only two UK governments since WW2 had actually been elected by an overall majority.

FPTP electoral system is deeply flawed except where there are only two candidates. It is almost certain to produce minority approval.

The system is simply not fit for purpose.

Can I point out that MPs (and MSPs) are given a mandate to support and represent the constituents’ INTERESTS and not their political opinions, however measured?

This reframing, straight from Goebbels handbook, has been going on for too long.

We must bring back the political discourse to the nub of the matter. If an MP is acting against the interests of her/his constituents s/he is acting in contravention of the mandate and must be contrasted robustly, to the point of making her/his work impossible.

The electoral mandate is not a blank cheque: either you do what’s best for your constituency, or you pay the consequences.

And in the modern, fast moving flux of the volatile socioeconomic situation a Parliament term is way too long.

Speak with the voice of your constituents, or you’re out.

At the time when the Treaty of union was being forced upon Scotland’s peoples there was a campaign against it that was stated in the lowland Scots language as the public did not want the parliament removed from the Scottish capital city because then the citizens would lose the facility of stoning them in Edinburgh’s streets. I’m not kidding – it is on public record in the public domain.

The media of the time has that, in the lowland Scots language, recorded for posterity.

It may help many Scots to understand the infamy of how the union was engineered to read this, “The National”, series of articles:-

link to thenational.scot

Representation of the Peoples act was only in 1918 and only over 30’s and property owners. Ten years later, 1928 before the Equal Franchise act brought Women to parity and brought the age down to 21, but still disenfranchised many people. It was 1948 before plurality (multiple voting) was dispensed with and only in my lifetime by 1969 were 18yr olds allowed a vote. So “democracy” as I am supposed to know it is younger than me, if that puts things in any perspective.

“Democracy” is still a (slow) work in progress, though in my lifetime I have seen suffrage for 16-17 yr olds and PR (in Scotland) I dare there will be further changes, but I won’t see it at its glacial rate and I’m only a middle aged guy.

One thing is for sure, ‘it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the government still gets in’ is an old joke which has legs yet.

@Colin Alexander
Instead of sniping at the SNP, the colonial devlutionarty whatevers, which is purely negative, why don’t you unfold your vision of what an INDEPENDENT Scotland could offer? The shape, the politics, the contributions and controls that you think could be done, and would like to see done?

If you do that instead of the negative stuff, you might get a more favourable response from some amongst us than you bargained for. Some of us have speculated in the past on mostly other forums.

And at the same time you might change the opinion people have of you …

I recently discovered that the reason Ireland uses the STV voting system is that it was introduced by the British for the municipal and county elections in 1920, to stop Sinn Fein from sweeping the seats under FPTP like they did in the 1918 GE…

It only partially worked – outside the cities, SF still won. They used STV for the 1922 GE too (SF won again), and have kept it ever since.

As soon as NI got its own parliament in 1921, it ditched the STV system and went back to FPTP to guarantee the Unionists power for ever…

The UK only introduces PR in countries other than England, and specifically to stop the ‘wrong’ parties from winning.

A politicians job is to convince the people of their ideas and then win by a voting system, the problem with some politicians is they believe if they win that vote even by the narrowest margin all the people who didn’t vote for them can get knotted, that’s always been the Tory Labour way and it’s very very wrong and leads to what we have now, dictatorship

Dictatorship works very well if the pretence of democracy is made to appear visible but it’s still dictatorship

Democracy isn’t easy it has to be worked at and for, and the people have to go along with it, but the difficulty with persuading people of the idea of real democracy once they think they have it is still well nigh impossible because human nature being what it is there are many people who talk deocracy but really like the dictator thing because they feel their version of democracy isn’t what transpired after they voted for it and lost, and that’s why there is such division in politics because half the people are just as bad as half the politicians

Trolling is the unpleasant persons way of attempting to twist the political landscape without having to do the work of becoming a politician themselves or perhaps they are failed politicians with axes to grind, or wannabee politicians who just aren’t good enough, whatever you think of them it’s a particularly scumbag way of spending your time

In such constituencies there must be a targeted leaflet highlighting how these mps have voted against the voters interest
It must be loud, graphic and clear this person voted for x
This will destroy fishing farming or whatever

Bob Mack @0300pm “ a no deal would be handing a gift to the Irish republicans& the SNP”. It has always been the case for the Westminster establishment that “ the precious precious union” is more important to them than the Brexit outcome. If the Tories thought that they could get away with a no deal hard Brexit and hold the union together , they would . However, this is exactly why “ the chickens are coming home to roost” now in the HOC. May’s proposal for a “ blind Brexit” , is specifically designed to “ muddy the waters and kick the can down the road”, . Thereafter , if passed the Tories could well pursue a “ hard Brexit Canada style deal”. In the meantime , this deal ( completely unacceptable to Scotland ) would be portrayed by the state propagandists as entirely suitable for the UK and EU. The penny is finally dropping within the Westminster establishment that “ No way “ is Scotland going to accept either No deal or May’s deal , and this is exactly why they really and truly do not know how to solve the conundrum. Therefore, the remaining options are a GE or EU 2. However, the outcomes of these possible events remain unknown. An extension to article 50 would surely be required for both of these to be considered. Our FM is entirely correct to wait until “ the material change in circumstances “ mandate is triggered, and thereafter Our Holyrood Parliament can finally act with regard to the constitutional future of our country. I would very much hope and believe that our FM has all scenarios covered , once the Britnat establishment decides on Brexit. I would suggest that she will use all legal and constitutional means at her disposal within the European and international democratic context to prosecute Scotland’s case for “ self determination “ . This could be a 2 or 3 pronged simoultaneous attack against the Westminster establishment, and might possibly not initially commence with a referendum.Meanwhile Let ,the unionists and the Westminster establishment “ tear their hair out” with this monumental bourach . The blue and red Tories deserve everything that’s coming to them. Our First Minister Will “ strike precisely when the time is right” for our people and country.

Colin Alexander@5.05pm

Hey have you not ground that SNP axe down to nothing yet. Bloody boring repetitive posts.

Ross Thomson – Total Tory Bampot just finished arguing to vote down Mays deal to save the Union. Good on you Ross you diddy – more likely to get a no deal Brexit and break up the Union. Well done you plonker.

The Tories have decided the Salmond case is the perfect opportunity to attack Nicola Sturgeon and smear her, BBC Scotland is happy to be the purveyor of this. They must have spent around 5 minutes of tonight’s programme to link the FM.

I think a number of us predicted the trajectory of this yesterday. You hardly needed to be Mystic Meg to predict how the BBC would cover this. They always seem to forget that all Civil Servants ultimately are employed by Westminster, I wonder why?

A member of the UK parliament is elected as an individual not a party,

is this the same for the Scottish parliament,

can a MSP `cross the floor`.

“Speak with the voice of your constituents, or you’re out.”

Unfortunately that presumes that your constituents are making sensible decisions based on a good understanding of the issues of the day. The justification of the press to be free to publish more or less what they like is that they also take on the obligation of providing sensible well-informed and well argued articles about those issues of the day to their readers, so that those readers become well-informed voters.

The BBC has a similar obligation.

Our MSM? Bought and paid for by the same captains of industry and banking that have bought and paid for our politicians. Except the SNP, obvs!

And any theoretical obligation of our politicians to vote as our elected representatives is overruled by their party leaders’ Whip system which forces our representatives to be their parties’ representatives for votes in the HoC that their parties deem more important than upholding the basis of our supposed democracy.

“Representative Democracy as a working means of practical government by consent, was painstakingly thought out and constructed with the aim of making democracy really work, and was applied in almost all of what we think of as the ‘liberal democracies of the Western world’, but in at least two of its leading examples in today’s world, the USA and the UK, representative democracy has been made to fail. It has been made to fail by a combination of causes, all of them deliberate.”

“No constitutional system should allow a partisan group to hijack the interests of the whole: this is happening in the UK and the US as these words are being written…It is therefore a matter of urgency to return our advanced polities to their democratic roots.”

A.C.Grayling, Professor of Philosophy and Master of the New College of The Humanities, London

from “Democracy and Its Crisis”

Ireland was illegally Partitioned in 1922. That ensured the minority in Ireland became the majority in NI. That ensured their majority, Not only was it illegal it was wicked. The Westminster unionists a complete disgrace.

The Irish wanted Home Rule /Independence. All of Ireland. There was a mass Home Rule movement in the 19th Century. The Catholics were denied rights by the Westminster establishment No universal Suffrage (until 1928)” The Irish Home Rule movement was led by Protestants. (Landowners) they had rights. Charles Stewart Parnell. The whole of Ireland wanted Home Rule/Independence. They got illegal Partition. (Brutality) The was supposed to be a Home Rule Bill passed in Westminster two week after the declaration of the 1WW. (Postponed)

It is ironic if Partition had been delayed until 1928. The Irish could have voted for Home Rule. The Ulster unionists started to import weapons under cover of the 1WW. Captain Crawford. Illegally by Port Glasgow. It was Partition that led to the continued troubles. The Catholics were discriminated by the Masons. Orange Order. Still going on. DUP break U.K Law with impunity for their unionist votes at Westminster. They are a Law unto themselves.

Demographically Ireland could vote to unite.

Parliamentary sovereignty has not been part of the British Constitution since 1991. The Scottish Tory party have just proven that their loyalty is to a regressive fantasy, and that they are no patriots to Scotland. How much is this dross scamming from the taxes of Scottish residents? Brass neck indeed.

#DissolveTheUnion

The Tories and Labour DEMAND to know what conversations the FM and former FM have had

Bit of a cheek that really when they don’t tell us what conversations they have with people

If Eck was or is found guilty of something then they might have the right to ask but not before because on the first part of legal procedure a judge has ruled the civil service was the guilty party not the FM or former FM

As to the possible £500.000 expenses burden on the Scottish tax payer the civil service is responsible for that blunder not the FM or former FM

Tomorrow at FMQs Jackson Carlaw is going to make a giant ninny of himself by defending a woman who made a *mistake* that a judge deemed bordered on bias

What might be nice to see is the Daily Records David Clegg hauled into court and questioned over his part in the *mistake* that led to collusion with the civil service of the leaking of sensitive and privileged legal documentation
involving two so far unamed persons making rerospective claims of sexual harassement against a former FM then printing such claims in his newspaper before any charge was made

So why don’t the Tories and Labour want to know about David Clegg’s conversations with the civil service because if they’re guilty then so is he and in turn the Daily Record

“He never answered my enquiry and never gave me the constituent support he promised me. So, I won’t vote for him again.

The Scottish Colonial Govt has NEVER dealt with any complaint / request for help properly, so from a personal point of view, why would I say they’re great? My only experiences of them have been negative.”

Grievance Monkey! Get over yourself you utter tosser.

Brexit is a means by which Westminster is able to reassert its’ legal authority over British subjects/citizens. Presently, we are embodied with legal personality, we have legal rights defined in international law. Resetting Parliamentary sovereignty relocates your embodied rights to Westminster/Whitehall.

So, do you feel lucky Scotland?

Daisy Walker

you are correct that on the 24th jan, technically speaking, time to hold a ge will run out.

much has been said in the hoc today about extending the 29th march deadline.

I doubt that the eu would agree to an extension unless it is for a ge and/or a euref2.

Personally, i think the eu would agree to an extension for a ge, indeed, i hope they do. It would give us time to hold a ge and also indyref2. 🙂

Thepnr 7.31pm

If you watch what yer man does he forms a pattern, he reads everybody’s posts then he uses a sentence here or there from each one puts them together runs them down then hopes for a bite from those posters to get his game going

Until his other buddies turn up

Angus got rid of hard working Mike Weir and elected a blonde bimbo who did not vote in the EU referendum because it was too complicated.She either has had a steep learning curve or votes they way Fuffy tells her to I suspect the latter. Roll on the next GE

@ Thepnr

Who said to me: “Grievance Monkey! Get over yourself you utter tosser”.

Are you going to say that to Alex Salmond for suing the UK’s Colonial Scottish Govt thanks to funding by many Wingers?

Nice one, Eck. Nice one Wingers.

Alex Salmond 1 UK’s Colonial Scottish Govt 0.

BBC Reporting Scotland

What a bloody awful programme. Mouse in the Scottish parliament – So what. There are a bunch of anti Scottish Britnat rats in Propaganda Quay. Clear out the Britnats before clearing out any mice. Britnat rats are a worse infestation than any wee mouse.

At least the DUP represent the majority in Norther Ireland and would have some small pretence at a democratic mandate to implement Brexit for it. In Scotland the Conservatives certainly don’t and all the Labour manifesto promised was a rejection of any deal May came up with and something “better” so the reality is we’re doing what they want because they have the backing of the rUK MPs which is kind of like a colonial relationship. More like the contries of the empire era where a local minority were used to control the rest.

@ Orri who said “the DUP represent the majority in Norther Ireland”

they don’t, you know Orri. As brexiteers, the DUP don’t represent the majority of people in NI who, like Scotland, voted to Remain.

The DUP are one of several minority parties in Northern ireland as their votes no longer pass the 50% mark.

Cubby says:

9 January, 2019 at 6:35 pm

Ross Thomson – Total Tory Bampot just finished arguing to vote down Mays deal to save the Union. Good on you Ross you diddy – more likely to get a no deal Brexit and break up the Union. Well done you plonker.
……………..

Or…well played for the indy cause, agent Thomson..har de har..!!

Geeo @8.26 pm

You have gone and blown his cover. The SNPs own sleeper in the Tory Party. Undercover Agent Thomson LOL

@ben madigen

if a ge is called with a tory manifesto commitment on a no deal brexit

what would the dup stand for and would the ni unionist vote split? is there a serious unionist party which is pro eu?

“Not one SNP MP got more than 50% of the vote in their seat”

Rock (24th December – “The stupidest year in history”):

“The SNP lost half a million voters and 21 of their 56 MPs at the last Westminster election.

It is my prediction that they will lose many more seats to Unionists United at the next Westminster election.

I will be happy to be proved wrong.

Anyone here willing to go on the record and say that the SNP will gain seats?”

“The low point came in 2005, when Tony Blair won a comfortable majority of over 30 seats on the backing of just 35.6% of voters, or under 22% of the eligible electorate.”

That happens under the very undemocratic “First Past The Post” Westminster system which some posters like Ken500 would dearly like to bring to the Scottish parliament.

Rev. Stuart Campbell (18th December – “Coming through the field”):

“having been thrashed by more than 12,400 votes in the election but foisted on taxpayers anyway via the list system.”

Rock (18th December – “Coming through the field”):

“Are you against the list system in Scotland?

Would you prefer a Westminster type “First Past The Post” system?

I am sure that the stupidity and nastiness of the likes of Brian Whittle can be exposed without discrediting what I believe to be a democratic system.

The first SNP government only came about because of the list system.”

“Scotland has a far better and fairer system, where it’s very hard for a party to win a majority of seats without securing a majority of votes.”

In which case, why do you so often indirectly and unnecessarily attack this fairer system?

Rev. Stuart Campbell (18th December – “Coming through the field”):

“having been thrashed by more than 12,400 votes in the election but foisted on taxpayers anyway via the list system.”

Just spotted the Joanna Cherry take down of Parliamentary Secretary on the awarding of Brexit contracts, who keeps using the phrase due diligence. I have interpreted this as meaning Brexit contracts for Tory friends and families as there doesn’t seem to have been any other diligence involved.

Rumours are the ‘We’re in the money’ guy from Sainsbury’s is considering forming a choir with like minded executives.

“And while SNP MPs might not have individual mandates to pursue independence, the compelling case that doing so is in the wider democratic interest of all of Scotland is hard to deny.”

Rock (25th January 2018 – “By hook or by Cook”):

“The British Establishment makes sure that anyone who goes to Westminster gets corrupted.

56 SNP MPs achieved as much for Scotland as 6 would have: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I would prefer that all of them are called back or lose their seats before they have been bought off.”

jfngw
Priti Patel is a British nationalist and not a British patriot. Patriots tend not to destroy their national economy and do not consider themselves superior to Others. She certainly doesn’t respect the doctrine of international law nor support the principle of universal rights (see Brexit). I would consider myself a constructive patriot who is determined not to end his years in a dictatorship.

So ….in Scotland there’s are MP,s in the holyrood Scottish parliament that were voted into office by us the people of Scotland and there MP,s in the holyrood Scottish parliament who were not voted into office by anyone and were just gifted the job by their party leader that’s the system we have.

ALL of the MP,s that represent Scotland at Westminster parliament are voted into office by us the people of Scotland

So let’s look at the total combined number of Scottish MP,s voted into office at holyrood and Westminster
And let’s just see what percentage are SNP

Holyrood Scottish parliament MP,s voted into office
SNP 59
Conservative 7
Labour. 3
Lib Dems. 4
Greens. 0

Scottish MP,s in Westminster voted into office
SNP 35
Conservative 13
Labour. 7
Lib Dems. 4
Greens. 0

So in total Scotland has 132 MP,s voted into office in holyrood and Westminster

Total SNP 94
Total conservative. 20
Total labour. 10
Total lib dem. 8
Total greens. 0

The SNP at 94 account for 72% of the total number of MP,s voted into office by us the people of Scotland
That is enough for Scotland to have a Scottish independence referendum anytime it wants

The LIST system at holyrood and the neverending English majority in Westminster contrive to keep Scotland under the control of Englands Westminster

Robert Peffers says:
9 January, 2019 at 5:33 pm

“At the time when the Treaty of union was being forced upon Scotland’s peoples”

How was it forced upon a “sovereign” people?

How can “plebs” without the right to vote ever be “sovereign”?

The regular “trolls” on Wings are nothing of the sort. They are a couple of Scottish fannies and have made themselves a laughing stock with their high opinions of themselves.

Get a life chaps preferably one that doesn’t include Wings FFS!

Daisy Walker says:
9 January, 2019 at 7:04 pm

“Of course a No Deal delivers the same… but without any form of mutual trade agreements. So a bigger and more dramatic fall out”

A no deal is the only way they can sign the free trade agreement with the USA that Hannan and co and all those “think tanks” at both sides of the Atlantic have been drafting. A no deal is the only way they can serve the NHS, our environment and our food industry on a plate to American Corporations.

Cubby says:
9 January, 2019 at 9:04 pm

“Sturgeon will be caught out by a snap Brexit was one of your favourite posts. Don’t say that now do you.”

Let me say it again at your special request since you are such a big fan of my comments:

Rock (27th August 2017 – “Underneath the Goodyear blimp”):

“Scotland was on the verge of independence immediately after the Brexit vote.

The unionist parties were without leaders and completely lost, the SNP had 56 out of 59 MPs and 50% of the vote, the EU’s eyes were (favourably) on Scotland.

But Nicola squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

The result: Nicola outsmarted by the collusion between Saints Theresa and Ruth on one hand, and Corbyn on the other, fall in SNP support from 50% to 37%.

It is my prediction that there will be a “snap” Brexit and the SNP will be caught napping and unable to hold a second independence referendum.

Or another “snap” Westminster election with the SNP again losing support.

Despite the pretendy “sovereignty” and boasting of the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here, Scotland is again as far away from independence as ever.

If they succeed in neutralising the Rev. Stuart Campbell and WOS, independence will be “stone dead” for at least 620 years.”

The “snap” Brexit didn’t happen because it was in the interests of the Establishment to carry on this farce as long as possible before blaming someone else for the shambles.

I had expected them to crash out sooner by blaming the EU, but the EU didn’t give them the opportunity.

But Nicola DID squander a 1000 years golden opportunity and the SNP HAS been caught napping and unable to hold a second independence referendum.

Prove me wrong when Nicola calls a referendum.

John Alexander Ferguson says:
9 January, 2019 at 9:12 pm
O/t apologies. I think I understand what No Deal is Ie out of the EU but I have no idea what Mays deal is about. Can some kind poster please bring me up to speed. Many thanks.

—–
both treeza’s and no deal both leave NI within the sm/cu once we leave.

both effectively remove britain from the sm/cu but treezas deal includes a 2 year transition period, after which, assuming no deals were agreed during this 2 year period, we would revert to a no deal senario.

basically we move entirely to a wto trade senario

Thepnr says:
9 January, 2019 at 9:18 pm

“The regular “trolls” on Wings are nothing of the sort. They are a couple of Scottish fannies and have made themselves a laughing stock with their high opinions of themselves.”

Robert Peffers says (to Thepnr):
27 March, 2017 at 7:40 pm (“The same old songs again”):

“Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid. First of all you are not the person who decides what the purpose of the Rev Stu’s blog is. That’s the Rev Stu’s choice to make. Secondly you probably wouldn’t recognise a real Troll if it was chewing on your ear.”

Dr Jim

Maybe the SNP should be asking what questions Ms Mc Kinnon asked of the complainants and why when Ms. Evans appointed her to the investigation she didn’t explain the conflict of interests. Plus, the person who was to investigate the claims was also the person who drew up the procedures for bringing a retrospective claim after she had spoken with the complainants.

This has come out in the Court case therefore there is no way that Evans can claim ignorance.

Undoubtedly this has all been engineered to embarrass Nicola and the S Gov. The Express has had a field day – headlines … Civil war between Sturgeon and Salmond has cost you, the taxpayer, £500k. etc.

Salmond’s legal team is certain that he cannot be tried again by the S Gov. Perhaps this is this collapse of the case is why Nicola says it is all very regrettable.

Makes it look as if it was all fixed to get Alex off the charge.

Alex and Angus lost their seats because the braindead fishing and farming industries voted Tory in the belief that they could safely put their industries in the hands of the Tory party again. They believed that the EU were the bane of all their woes not realising that it was the Tories all along.
There will be no farming or fishing industry in the UK after Brexit because they will be hit the hardest with the loss of the market share for their produce. Produce that has to travel to a market quickly before it spoils a market that consists of your nearest neighbours not somebody sitting on the other side of the planet where fresh produce can ONLY be obtained locally.
No in order to get to their ideal markets they’re going to have to pay WTO levies and that’s ONLY if their produce isn’t held up by traffic ques.
Fuckers who never realised how good they had it voted for the worst level of fucked up criminal filth and replaced 2 of the finest political servants this country has ever produced.
So next time you see a farmer or fisherman from the NE of Scotland piss in his beer.

schrodingers cat says:
9 January, 2019 at 8:49 pm
“They would be voting to end their career”

If I was a senior conservative MP and I was threatened by some wnkr with the termination of my political career because I did not toe their line, not only I would still be voting the way I want, I would also give them a piece of my mind by going the extra mile and immediately giving up the conservative membership, declaring myself an independent MP citing publicly and openly the reasons for that, showing two fingers from then on to the tory whip and withdraw completely my support to the conservative party for whatever time is left until the next GE. That would teach them a lesson in not taking my support for granted. And then just to add insult to the injury, I would present myself as independent candidate in the same constituency in the next election to hoover up all the votes of those who think it is best the devil you know, those that think I did a good job, those that do not agree with the line the party is taking and those that did not realise yet the conservatives have a new candidate.

Should 10 tory MPs find the courage to do that and the tory party is finished.

schrodingers cat says:

link to docs.wixstatic.com

page 16

with a no deal brexit, support for irish unification

strongly against 38%
against 4%
dk 3%
for 7%
strongly for 48%

with treeza’s deal brexit, support for irish unification

strongly against 39%
against 9%
dk 4%
for 18%
strongly for 30%

this is the most significant poll in ni for decades. the dup supporting no deal puts them at odds with their own electorate

South Thanet general election 2015

Tories found guilty of cheating against Farage. One set of right wing Britnats cheating against another set of cheating right wing Britnats. Poor old Nigel cheated out of being an MP.

Britnats a bunch of lying cheating chancers with no integrity.

Democracy bought and sold in the UK.

You know,even if Westminster stumbles onto a general election the whole issue of Cambridge analytica, the use of social media to target people, dark money, lost votes, the ineffectual electoral commission and the media, the massive self serving job the media has carried out – why would ordinary voters trust any election campaign ?

Worth reading.

link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com

Some dugs have a bite. 🙂

@Meg merrilees

“No Data breech” what a joke so how did the Daily Record get it’s exclusive then?. The hole that the leader of the civil service in Scotland is digging just keeps getting deeper.

link to scotsman.com

It’s obvious even to an ignoramus that there was a “data leak” else the Alex Salmond attempted smear would never have been made public. This is beyond a joke now, the civil service in Scotland, sorry the leader of the civil service in Scotland was humiliated yesterday by the highest court in Scotland.

Today “there was NO data leak” which is absolutely impossible. This imbecile has to go as she is not fit for office.

Legerwood 8:24pm

The presiding officer most likely was advised by Paul Grice, Chief Executive of The Scottish Parliament. Sir Paul moved from England to study at Stirling University, entered the civil service through a “fast track” program, and has been head honcho of the parliament for the last 20 years. Ultimately responsible for procedural and “constitutional ” matters. Interestingly, Mr. Grice was private secretary to Baroness Bottomley during the heady days of tory paedo scandals. Bottomley’s husband, was a junior Northern Ireland minister, head of the ” Monday Club” , had extensive security service links, and was outed as being part of a Westminster paedophile ring by Scallywag magazine. His is one of the files that Theresa May’s Home Office lost, when it was fashionable to pretend to hold people to account.

@Capella

“What she implies is that the “victims” told the press.”

That’s even worse. Blame the victims! She has no shame.

@ jfngw at 9.57

Which excess votes are moved and who decides which ones they are

That’s not how it works. Suppose Candidate A has 100 excess votes, having been elected in the first round.

Every ballot paper with Candidate A as first choice is examined and the second preferences tallied. The 100 surplus is then split between the second preference candidates in the same proportion as the second preferences they received.

eg, if 50% of voters for successful candidate A put Candidate B second, B gets 50 extra votes. If 20% put Candidate C second, C gets 20 extra votes, and so on. If any of B, C etc has already been elected, or eliminated, the third preferences are examined, and so on. (I think it’s the case that these proportions are not rounded, so it is possible to get 13.67 extra votes, for instance.)

When a candidate is elimiated, all his/her votes are redistributed to the next preference, because there isn’t a “surplus”.

Tories have basically just ripped up the May deal, according to Rev’s twitter
More big Brexit news: No10 confirms the Govt has just accepted the Swire amendment – which gives MPs the power to;
1. Veto the Irish backstop AND a transition extension in 2020
2. Limit the backstop to just 12 months
Both completely contradict the current Withdrawal Agreement.

WTF is going on? Thought the pantomine season was finished?

@ Glamcennalath @ Thepnr – Alex Salmond would never have told the DR. It’s possible the police could have leaked it if they were involved earlier than the end of the in service investigation.

Perhaps AS will ask the police to investigate?

The health and safety record at Coulport and Faslane is appalling but there is sod all the Scottish government, the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa) or local authorities can do to bring about any improvement since devolved environmental laws exclude MOD sites such as Coulport and the neighbouring nuclear submarine base at Faslane.

link to caltonjock.com

That means it works as a quota. A quota is applied. Once the first (most popular) candidate receives a quota. There first votes are ignored and passes to a (not known) second candidate. That is not fair. People’s first votes are being ignored and a second vote comes to play.

Some people do not realise that they can vote two votes SNP, one the first candidate and one for the list. It is totally unfair. Some people think they must vote for someone else. Effectively diluting their 1st preference vote, People’s first (pref) fmvotes are being ignored. To select another candidate.

The unionists who stand as separate parties. They then collude to join together to keep the SNP out. Illegally. When the SNP have more elected candidates. It is illegal for a elected party member to tell their voters/supporter to vote for another Party. It conveys the message their own Party is rubbish. So why are they in it. Gerrymandering.

A system where voters have second guest and vote for candidates and parties they can’t stand. To get their candidate in. It is suspect and not representative for the voters. Make it complicated or difficult for voters. They will not turn out to vote. It damages the Democracy.

thepnr @11.20pm

The Britnat media in Scotland holding each other to account for their lies. Now that would be a novelty.

Salmondgate is getting beyond parody. I can see a film being made soon of the whole affair by the burgeoning Scottish gov supported film industry. LOL

Hamish 100@11.02pm

Ian Paisley holiday free loader is being entertained at a 10 downing st bash tonight. Obviously a bit of corruption does not prevent you from hobnobbing with a Tory prime minister.

Thank you Robert Peffers For that link to the National article on the history of Scotland before and after the hateful union.

In a normal country this would be in our history curriculum instead of Henry viii or world war 1.

The fight for independence was recorded by Robert Burns in the 1790s though he had to be be very circumspect as he was a govern men employee as a gauger and his family`s survival depended on his wages.

Thank you for educating many of the wingers family.