Wings Over Scotland

ditto bj

thats why i was encouraging this thread to look closely at their respective wards. its up to you all, to look out for this phenomen in your wards, we all know this will happen, it has before, but no one from snp central will do this for you, If you cant bring yourself to vote anything else but snp, fair enough, but at least you can warn other snp voters not to vote for unionists in disguise? not everyone may know the difference. ?

If your aim Is to maximise the number of pro-independence candidates then you should vote for all of them in the council elections.

In the Westminster elections, a vote for the Greens was effectively one less vote that the SNP candidate had over their unionist opponent. Not a “wasted” vote, but counterproductive in terms of kicking out unionists, Mundell being the most glaring example.

The same applied to the first vote in the Holyrood elections. The second vote was less straightforward.

The council elections are different. You can vote for every SNP candidate and every Green candidate. If the SNP candidate is eliminated and a lot of their votes then go to a Green, that could be enough to keep out a Labour dinosaur, Tory bigot, or Lib Dem liar. It doesn’t make the election of an SNP candidate any less likely.

The Yoons have worked this out, one of the reasons they’re able to pick up seats in recent byelections.

I don’t really understand the animosity towards the Greens. Sure, they have some sanctimonious nutters in their ranks, but so does every party. They have been constructive in opposition on policies like minimum pricing of alcohol, when the unionist parties were cynically playing politics with lives. They worked hard during indyref.

With the possible exception of any spectacular idiots being put forward, I’ll be voting for every pro-Indy candidate.

Giving Goose.
Independent candidates,
Iv’e posted this warning for the last two/three months. I intend to keep on doing so. Sincerely hope you continue to do same. Keep it short & sharp. Some may object to the repetitiveness. Ignore them.

capella

I would only vote SNP, unless Stu or the SNP produce an article suggesting that voting for another Independence supporting party is sensible.

im not sure that can be done for snp voters, leastways for every ward?
it could be done for green and ssp voters though. my rules post is really targeted at them to convince them to give 2nd and 3rd votes etc to the snp?

as ive said, snp voters in wards with 2 snp candidates, in almost every ward, whether the snp voters give 3rd choice votes to greens or ssp wont make a blind bit of difference. the most the snp activists and supporters can offer the smaller indy supporting parties is good will. The reverse is not the case, getting the smaller indyparty supporters and voters to give the snp their 2nd and 3rd votes, may be be crutial in some wards to the snp candidates elected?

See, confusion.
Indepen..dence vs indepen..dents
= indy…pen..dance.

My suggestion is a referendum newspaper providing generic information about all the areas of possible concern to all voters
It would also respond to any scare stories by the yoons
The paper would run for 6 weeks or 8 and would be free delivery to every house in Scotland
It could even go Mon Wed and Fri

pnr
This overrides any voting system or preference and has to be the number one priority. If we got ALL the Yes voting support out SNP would control EVERY Council in Scotland.

true, but how to do this without noising up the unionists?

im sure may pressing the brexit but at the end of march is designed to precipitate the stand off between holyrood and westminster over indyref2 right in the middle of the council election campaign. Fear of indyref2 is what motivates the unionists. we may have no choice to gotv in this council election

TJ @ 8.21.

Great post agree 100%.

Rock @ 6.34
If the Scotland Act forbids Holyrood from holding a referendum on Scottish independence…. that’s news to me.

And certainly not something I have said.

Try thinking of it like this…..and don’t take it as anything other than a way of looking at issue.

If you got Legally married.
You would then have a Lawful wife.
If you were then to get divorced.
You don’t get an unlawful wife
Or even an illegal wife,
If you marry another wife before going through the proper leagal process that’s not unlawful that’s illegal.

You see the way these terms are applied in law are all different.

Also nothing ever comes under these headings unless they have been written in.

EG..No one ever had the right to drink and drive before it was made illegal, it was never legal to do it ,it just wasn’t illegal.

Sooo ….with all that in mind for Holyrood to strike down or alter the Treaty of the Union,it would not be lawful.
And could cause Westminster to make it not only illegal but give it a level of ” illegalness ” that could carry heavy punishment and back date it.
The trouble is that would cause backlashes to many to mention here,thats why it would be a UDI option.
Because it looks like and behaves like UDI.
Now if that point of view does not change your question,you and I need to leave it here …on this matter.

I must admit that you see to have the answer you want already in your mind.Also you seem to be trying to steer Robert Peffers into giving it to you.
Can I ask why and for what purpose?

Thepnr says:
10 October, 2016 at 8:57 pm
@schrodingers cat

It may be wishful thinking but I believe this new Tory government might just motivate enough Yes supporting Scots to go out and vote next May.

im thinking they are trying to motivate the unionists to go out and vote and convince the yessers not to. they succeded in this in the holyrood election

One_Scot says:
10 October, 2016 at 9:03 pm
Not sure that Better Together2 will have many options left in terms of lies and scare stories.

I dont think that will stop them trying:

1. 15bn black hole, your economy is crap (why dont you fix it neh neh neh day job day job)
2. most of your trade is with England and we won’t let you neh neh neh
3. EU doesnt want you, cos youre crap
4. the EU is crap, you dont want to join it
5. you will get swamped with immigrants
6. you will have to join the Euro and its crap
7. they wont let you join the Euro, cos youre crap
8. your oil is running out
9. your oil isnt worth anything
10. you need our mighty armed forces to defend you
11. you need nukes or other countries might be nasty to you
12. your weather is crap (Greece without the sunshine)
13. your windmills are crap
14. you cant even talk right
15. your granny in England will become a FORRINER
16. you will need a passport to get to England
17. stamps will be more expensive
18. what will you do if aliens attack you
19. we will give you MOARR POWERRRZ
20. we will be super federal
21. we love you
22. we will wave saltires for a day to make you feel wanted
23. PLEEEZE DONT GO (even though youre crap)

yawn

Im sure we will be playing scare story bingo.

Quick better get your Euros now while you can still get 88 cents for £1

24. Armed guard Check point Charlies at Berwick, Ed Milliband.
25. Different international phone code cost from mother UK, Ligger Neil
26. No Lotto. £149 million tomorrow! Or what JK Rowling makes an hour. Cant mind who said that one, John Major maybe.

If I win the lotto tomorrow, I’m still YES.

Has anybody noticed how quiet folk like Jakey Rollup and her buddy the business Tsar Michelle (I love myself) Mone have been lately, not a peep from the top Yoon trollers on how Brexit is all going swimmingly

@Duncan Hothersall has fessed up at last and admits his party is over and out, done and dusted, gubbed! never to return
and Glasgow Cooncil want the SNP to hurry up and bring down APD but they didnae ask Kezia furst.. Oh-uh!

Mibbees they want their automation..automatic..autumn statement..automaton, it’s one of those things with an AUT in it

@Dr Jim

aye big drop in the the graph maps onto the Tory conference… funny that. Wonder if they and their pals knowing the likely reaction all bought billions of Euros before conference to make a killing?

For sure there are people out there making a mint from Brexit. Just not us.

Thought it was Ed Milliband who said No lotto for Scotland but it was actually UK.gov, or their apolitical impartial civil service put this out. Takes you back eh.

link to gov.uk

Fact: It’s called the National Lottery – not the International Lottery. You can’t buy a ticket in France, so why would it run in an independent Scotland? The same goes for everything from the Met Office to the benefits system. We’d have to spend millions setting up new institutions.

3. Myth: We’ll be an EU member (and inherit the same terms and conditions that the UK currently enjoys)
EU flag

Fact: We’d have to apply as a new state and negotiate entry – it’s hard to imagine it would be an easy process (look at how long it took Croatia to join – almost eight years), and even harder to imagine that we’d be given advantageous terms (like the UK rebate or opt-outs, including from the Euro).

So much for us all being fully prepared for their UKOK Brexit catastrofuck. Spectacular UKOK BBC r4 Brexit’s great propaganda right now, or as normal. Its worth a listen to BBC r4 liars. just to hear professional liars/spin doctors raving about how great it is with sterling plummeting.

Glamaig: could you please add another to your list, one I memorably got on the doorstep from a complete Zoomer Yooner.

“I’m voting No ‘cos ma car insurance will go up.”

“Really? How’s that?”

“‘Cos we’ll be a foreign country,” (taps temple to indicate ‘use yer heid’).

It’s the way they tell ’em.

32. you wont be able to waste your money on our lottery any more and its the bestest and only lottery in the whole wide world
33. you wont know what the weather is going to be any more because its OUR met office and we wont tell you neh neh neh and nobody else in the world can forecast the weather
34. its great when your currency is in free fall cos everybody wants to buy your stuff if you have anything to export oh wait

Ian Murray@8.29
Ian, it is a good idea but very expensive.
Setting up a paper for every household in Scotland would need a million copies for every edition.
Then you have the printing costs and delivery or postage.
When we did the newspaper for the 2014 referendum it was all we could do to get one out every month and the deliveries relied on volunteers in the evenings slogging up and down thousands of stairs. A million every week or more would be impossible in my opinion..
That paper was delivered but, again in my opinion, it was not very good and full of trivia when it should have been vigorously attacking the No camp in every copy.
I would like to see a good Yes campaign paper but it must be better than last time.

Tam Jardine @ 8.21
Could not agree more with what you said and you said it so well.
In a sense no matter the result,we cannot let this just go ahead.
We have to demonstrate that we do not agree with or accept the direction of the UK government.
And even if the numbers fell short to get us out ,we still have shown there is a very large and credible group of Scottish Citizen’s who will not go quietly away.

‘The doors and windows of the legislative house remain closed and no one gets in, not even through the cat flap. …It’s as if politics has shut itself up in its own castle and is peering at the uproar on the street, an unhelpful attitude which only increases the citizen’s feeling of distrust and causes further unrest…

Without drastic adjustment, this system cannot last much longer… It’s very simple either politics throws open the doors or it won’t be long before they’ll be kicked in by angry citizens shouting slogans like ‘No taxation without participation’ as they smash every last stick of furniture and walk out with the chandelier of power’

(Van Reybrouck, ‘Against Elections)

Scotland can provide that drastic adjustment with its peaceful, inclusive, democratic and progressive politics. If Scotland wrote its constitution now and enacted all the elements perhaps that were in the original Smith Commission and compared it to the travesty of ‘powers’ and influence over its own destiny that it has at present within the Union- which would be more agreeable?

Scotland can have referendums, repeatedly, until WM gives up. Referendums are a good way as per the YES campaign of educating the electorate, giving them the information that they require to make a decision that can be expressed collectively as a consensus.

Scotland’s tenement dwellers are now fully educated. That’s the stuff of nightmares for the current WM regime – the party of extreme inequality, social exclusion and misinformed citizens which doesn’t understand that any successful long term relationship depends on mutuality, trust, reciprocity and empathy.

The EU vote exemplifies the imbalance within the UK union-why would anyone vote for the current UK political set up to continue as ‘hard’ Brexit becomes hardship Brexit. The politicians who have promoted and courted this with the support of indefensible journalism will not hang around with the masses as the economy tanks and the global instruments of unrestrained capitalism turn their backs on the sour faced UK in favour of the rather larger, economically favourable European market.

An autonomous Scotland is a worthy and inevitable outcome irrespective of the mechanism that ultimately triggers it .

35. Michelle Mone will threaten to move back to Scotland.

Boxing clever come council elections is crucial. Concentrating on the stronger for scotland message might be best? Playing the Eu remain card might backfire in some areas and communities who are pro brexit – and I mean SNP brexit voters. Although by May the brexit Blues might have hit so that could be a moveable feast.

Need to recognise that we’ve lost some Indy supporting working class vote over brexit but gained middle class pro Europe. However as mentioned the country might be choking on its brexit cereal by then. Things are still up in the air.

Nicola will be on it though. She won’t fire the starting gun til she sees the whites of their eyes. Steady, steady…

Right, I’ll go into more detail of my own ward – and council – now I’m back from the committee meeting. I spent all last night putting together a single sheet of A4, including having reverse engineered the result of the election for our ward with a spreadsheet.

Here we had 2 SNP candidates. One was over the quota of 1.245 on 1st preference, the only candidate of all parties to have reached the quota, he was duly elected. With a surplus of 460 votes. But the way that works is ALL 1705 votes are then looked at for their 2nd preference, and a proportion taken for each and every one of them. That “Transfer Value” was 0.26979 (from my reverse engineering – actual value could be a little different).

Most of the 1st candidates surplus votes went to the 2nd SNP candidate, some to other candidates, but 105 votes were left blank after the 1st preference so took no further part. This was a waste of 28.3 votes at the transfer value. However, the 2nd SNP candidate had enough transfer votes at a value of 0.27 to get elected with the additional resulting 351.8 votes.

So SNP were elected 1 and 2, no further candidates, but 2 more seats to elect.

Now, the 2nd and last SNP candidate had a surplus of 197 votes, for a transfer value of 0.13649. But all his 1,441.8 votes were looked at for their 2nd or third preference. Remember, 1,090 of these were 1st preference votes, but the others were already transferred so already had a reduced transfer value.

However, of his surplus 1897 votes, 92.8 were non-transferrable, which corresponds to 680 SNP voters expressing no further preference after SNP 1 only, SNP 2 only, or SNP 1 and 2.

The total votes however at transfer value is now 121.1. At the next stage socialist labour was eliminated and 100% of his votes trnasferred. At the next the Labour was elected and his 36.9 vote surplus transferred.

At the next stage, the Independent of he had had the SNP wasted votes of 121.1 votes at trandfer value, would have been elected with 1,258.8 votes – just 13.8 over the quota. That didn’t happen, so he was eliminated which left just the Conservative who was duly elected. Someone at the commitee meeteing actually confirmed this – they’d have had access to the detailed info and wouldn’t have needed my reverese spreadsheet.

I knew myself but checked at the meeting. The Independent was a YES.

39. the EU wont let you fish your fishing grounds to extinction like us
40. you wont be allowed to pour shite into your rivers
41. they’ll make you test all your medicines for godsakes what a drag

I think there is literally no limit…

46. The rich will leave Scotland……..Am pure scunnered so a um. I mean Jakey has left us so has Michelle Ma belle. Gutted……..

32. link to twitter.com bestest ever UK friend will have a nervous breakdown.

yesindyref2 10.42

Well, I’ll just copy that and show it to all the voters in my area along with the Electoral Reform Society’s explanation of STV.

link to archive.is

I’m sure it will cause a spontaneous outburst of enthusiasm for STV and a rush to the polling stations.

Tonight bbc2 Scotland.
The Victorian slum.
With zero hour contracts and benefit cuts to the poor and disabled. They soon won’t have to do a mock up in a TVs studio. We all ready have food banks and the needy having to rely on charities. Fifth economy in the world and this is how we treat our disadvantaged. It’s a disgrace and will only get worse with the nazi party in charge.

Re voting in Council elections.

If your local SNP branch is anything like mine then they will have done a sweep of other elections for both GE and Holyrood and know which ballot boxes favoured them. My son was involved with this at the last election.

This can then be transferred to local wards for the Council elections. Since most election stations are in Council wards it would be wise to listen to your local SNP branch to tell you which SNP candidate should be first and which second to maximise election.

SNP as much as possible.

Lottery: I only do the big Squillions Euro anyway
Bicycles being green: Have you seen the price of bikes lately I went in to Halfords the cheapest grown up bike was over £300 and how long does that last, my car’s over 12 years old never breaks down passes it’s MOT every year and I’m lucky if I do 3000 miles a year anyway so I’m F…..g greener than a bike but I have to pay £270 a year tax to maintain the roads the bikes get to use for free AND I pay insurance so’s the kiddywinkies who keep jumping off the pavement in front of me on their rotten wee bikes can sue me coz I’m a bound to be wrong if I hit one of the little shits or their daddies who cycle around at night with no lights and no hi-viz anything rendering them almost invisible to the naked eye
If this was Texas at least I’d be allowed to shoot them, no tae kill ye understand, jist wound a wee bit

Patrick F…..g Harvie I’ll give him Bike, disnae want planes, disnae want oil, disnae want gas, but he’s perfectly happy with cancer spewing diesel buses crawling all over Glasgow city centre and the slower they go the more shit they spew

What we need is Flitstone transport it’s the only way to go get the little legs underneath and start peddlin, preferably Patrick Harvies little legs

Just heard the Scotland game advertised on cooncil telly there. Oh no hang on … It was England they were talking about … Silly me #livingcolonial

So around 85% of pro-Indy voters voted SNP in May, and 15% for other pro-indy parties in the list vote.

Check out YOUR ward results for 2012, and see how many SNP candidates who lost, would have won with just 10% extra votes coming from non-SNP pro-indy voters putting SNP next preferences after their own candidates who got eliminated. And how many SNP controlled councils – overall control, plus NOCs changing to SNP control – that would have made.

So let’s keep the hate-fest going, eh? The other pro-indy parties just love it. Not.

But the Unionists do.

@Still Positive.
That’s the way to do it. Local leaflets with the 1&2 2&1 preferences/ directions right down to each individual street in the ward.

The Marwick method (etal)… works well, lots of prep though. 🙂

Tam Jardine @ 12.50
Finger’s crossed

Scotland is best place to live in UK

link to archive.is

SNP accuse Tory government of presiding over ‘dog’s Brexit’

link to archive.is

Heedtracker , I have not read Effie Deans before , and now I wish I hadn’t bothered .

Jeezo! She certainly attracts the ignorant haters.

Not for me ever again.

Vote SNP/SNP do not vote for any other Party or you are cancelling out your vote. The only way to ensure the Scottish Gov policies are carrying out affectively. Not ignored by Unionist/Green No Party councils. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

The Greens collude with the Unionists. Renege on their own policies. Waste £Millions/Billions on grotesque projects that the majority do not want. Ruining City centres, with no predetrianiseation and cause traffic chaos shutting essential roads. Wasting £Millions/Billions which should be spent on essential services. Class sizes are increasing. Social care and drug/drinks rehab facilities and homelessness care is not being funded by Unionist/Green councils wasting £Millions/Billions of public money. Spending £30Million renovating an Art Gallery? £26Millions debt on a Conference Centre used on average once a month. Now planning to build another one £300Million with a railway link? to an airport 5mins away. The airport entrance is across the runway from the train station. It would be cheaper to move the entrance.

How much public money can be squander? When essential services are not being met. Refused a £80Million Gift to predestrianise the City and improve the main thoroughfare. The Green deputy leader goes along with this. Votes with the status quo the Unionist for remuneration and Office. The Greens collude with landowners and prevent land being used for essential roads etc.

The Tories are ruining the world economy. 20 years after Thatcher ruined the world economy deregulated banking, deleverage the reserves. From 25% to 13% – halved. Sold off utilities now owned by fireign Stare companies. Ruined the Scottish economy. Thatcher secretly and illegally took all the Oil resources. Kept them illegally off the balance sheet and built up London S/E with revenues. Built Canary Wharf and Tilbury Docks, Centealused transport through London. Totally congested, adding hours to flight travel. The Tories are wasting £Billions on Hinkley Point and HS2. A total waste of money. The Tories and their associates are lining their pockets with consultancy, fees and banking interest. They are flying nuclear waste around the world. Wasting £Billions on Trident. Going with Brexit. The US do not want it here. It is obsolete. Like the Tory/Unionists.

The Tory/Unionist have caused the migrant crisis in Europe. With illegal wars. Banking fraud and tax evasion has destroyed the UK economy with £Trillions of debt. The Tories want to walk away and not help resolve the migrant crisis they have created.They are lining their pockets on people’s misery and sanctioning and starving vulnerable people.

Vote SNP/SNP for self governance/Independence.and a better and more prosperous Scotland. In May 2017 the Scottish Gov can stop sanctioning the vulnerable. No more food banks will be necessary. Vote SNP/SNP May 2017. So the Councils will follow Scottish Gov instructions to fund essential services and not waste £Milliins/Billions on grotesque, monstrosity projects. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. Provide nursery places, cut class sizes, fund proper ‘one chance’ total abstinence rehab care, cut homelessness and fund proper social care.

Brexit is a total disaster. The minority trying to take the majority out of the EU. 17Milluin out of 45Million electorate. 62Million people population. The Torues committed electoral fraud in 31constituencies, They are an illegal UK Gov. The Tory/Unionist are trying to ruin the world economy again. Along with their Non Dom tax evading right wing MSM associates, who illegally control the Press in the UK, so they can tax evade. The reason they want out of the EU. Losing £Billions in the process as the £ falls. Increasing the deficit and the debt. Imports will cost more and prices will increase. The rest of the UK has a major balance of payments deficit. The UK is the most unequal place in the world, The English working class vote Tory.

Germany was not allowed to re-arm after 11WW. Did not spend the equivalent of £Billions in redundant, obsolete weaponry. Illegally invade in the Middle East. No massive banker fraud and tax evasion. Germany trades in the Middle East sells cars and builds construction projects. Germany is in the EU and in surplus. Most EU countries (Eurozone) have less debt than the UK. The most unequal, unfair, place in the world. People are unhappy and angry.

Westminster Unionists squandered the Scottish Oil revenues. The Tories (Osbourne) have tried to destroy the Oil & Gas sector with 80% to 60% taxes when the price has fallen 75%. Losing Scotland £Billions and thousands of jobs. Scotland would have had near full employment without Westminstef interference. Untaxed Fracked Gas from the US is now being imported. The Oil & Gas sector is now taxed at 40%, since Jan 2016. Scotland would be far better off Independent controlling it’s own resources. Westminster reneged on promised CCS projects. Refused permission at Longannet and Peterhead. Westminster took CAP payments made to Scotland. As part of the UK Scotland received the lowest CAP payments in the EU.

Vote SNP/SNP/SNP. Do not dilute the Vote on these electoral systems used to confuse the voters.

I live in a 4 candidate ward where the candidates were:
SNP x 2
Yes voting independent
Tory
Alex Gallagher

The first 3 are easy, but to I also vote for the Tory for my 4th vote to keep wee Alex away from the responsibility of being a councillor or just leave it to chance?

Ken500 at 0737am,

I fully agree with you. As I said yesterday, I’ll vote SNP/SNP – unless there are any shock announcements at the SNP conference. Much as I like some green philosophy, an awful lot of taxpayers money is being literally wasted by loony schemes – like making a mandatory speed limit of 20mph in ALL Edinburgh roads, no matter time of day etc.. This is costing millions of pounds for thousands of new road signs and road painting

I support 20 limits outside schools etc.. at closing/opening, but imposing such a speed limit, 24/7 on ALL roads, even major roads isn’t a policy, it is political DOGMA.

Norway-rejected-post-brexit-cooperation-with-uk
link to archive.is

link to publiclawforeveryone.com

link to freemovement.org.uk

Pound drop continues
link to archive.is

Mccart at 1:32.

A coin?

Re my last comment about STV voting.
What I was trying to say was that you don’t need to use all your votes. Some folk seem to be suggesting that you have to put a vote against every candidate. This is not the case.
If there is only one SNP candidate, only use 1 vote for them. If there is two SNP candidates, only vote 1 and 2 for them.

FYI Wee Ginger dug coming to Dingwall

link to eventbrite.co.uk

@Smallaxe Kettle is whistling.

All this talk of how to use your multiple votes in a multi-member council ward, reminds me of a story a distant relative, these many years relocated to British Columbia tells of the old Cumnock Town Council.

The council was solid Labour, apart from one Liberal, who kept being re-elected. The theory was, all the Tories and Liberals in the town voted for him, and him alone, while the mainly miners in the town voted for how ever many Labour candidates were standing.

However, this Liberal was always voted for, on the basis of being the best treasurer Cumnock Juniors ever had, and the miners thought he would keep a similarly steady hand on council finances.

I don’t say it nearly as often as I should, Nana, but thank you for your daily links – and for your comments. Your contribution here is of the highest value and is hugely appreciated – every day.
With very best wishes.
Manandboy

Nana , I second that – Manandboy’s comment that is!

Fairliered
I dare say there is an odd example, there are 350 wards. point being made is that central snp wont offer guidance to the voters in your ward regarding this issue, that will be up to those snp members campaigning in your ward

Juteman
I havent seen anyone on this thread suggesting you have to vote for every candidate, but yes, it is a misconception i have come across when out campaigning. Indeed, I was informed by an OAP voter that they had been told this by a libdem candidate. par for the course.

ken500
If you cant bring yourself to vote for yes supporting candidates other than the snp… dont… as has been pointed out, it wont make any difference to them anyway. It certainly isnt an issue worth falling out over. However, If you come across a supporter/voter for other smaller or independent yes candidates, remain polite and invite them to give their 2nd and 3rd votes to the snp candidates, That may be the difference between the snp winning 1 or more candidates in your ward.

call me dave says:
11 October, 2016 at 12:44 am
@Still Positive.
That’s the way to do it. Local leaflets with the 1&2 2&1 preferences/ directions right down to each individual street in the ward.

I would be careful of suggesting that without referencing it to a specific ward. If the quota in a ward is eg 1000, and you have 2 snp candidates and a review of votes from 2012/2015/2016 elections indicate that the snp are likely to gain 1400 votes total, then you might be wiser to go with a snp 1&2 option for the whole ward rather than being in a situation, of after the 1st count, both your candidates sitting on 700 votes and 3 unionists being elected before either of your candidates is eliminated and 2nd preference votes being transfered. as i said, it is up to you to review the best tactic for your ward, no one is going to do it for you

Macart says:
11 October, 2016 at 1:32 am
49. Someone will come up with a voting system that doesn’t require extensive use of an abacus, a thesaurus, an astrological chart and a set of D&D dodecahedron dice.

I wish, but this is the system we have and will be used for this election, we will just have to deal with it as best we can

Socrates MacSporran
there has been a move away from independent to party candidates for local elections in recent years and indeed, it could be argued that if the issues at stake are pot holes and dog shit who cares what political party a candidate belongs to.

however, the 2017 council elections will be the most politicised council elections in scotland ever. I believe it is westminster intention to make it so, they will force the face off between nicola and teresa over indyref2 during the campaign to try and motiate the unionists to get and vote.

Controversial opinion on Council vote?

Remember I’m not a fan of my local SNP, but perhaps the SNP might try winning, instead of waiting for the opposition to hand them victory by their own unmitigated incompetence.

By all means keep some powder dry for the post Article 50 pre-Brexit window of opportunity, which might be 2 years but could be 2 weeks, but there is a mountain of inertia to be overcome if we want the correct result.

Why am I saying so? Because with “nothing” happening in a wider strategic sense, my local SNP brigade aren’t exactly glowing with expectancy or promise. They look very grey and ordinary indeed, and that’s me being kind.

Ah patience! Goes the cry.

Well I have patience, but my aspirations to see some positive strategic manoeuvring are well founded. I’ve mentioned before about summits in Scotland, pro EU events and draws to Scotland of European Press packs. Are any such things planned or happening or is Operation Waitandsee the only plan we have?

The media too is as toxic as ever, but running at large like a rabid dog without even an attempt to corner the beast. It’s another article of Waitandsee policy is it? Know what? Tolerating the media is going to cost the SNP more votes than transferable votes on a ballot. Why worry about Scottish sovereignty trumping English sovereignty when it can’t even win a trick against BBC sovereignty?

Like I say, when do we start winning independence instead of tut tut tutting as Theresa May does her best to win it for us?

I know, I know, shut your gob, hold your nose and vote SNP…. Again. Operation Waitandsee is going to plan… Just it’s Theresa May’s plan, not ours, and that’s what bothers me.

@ schrodingers cat

Its a toughie SC.

Average Jock and Jeannie Public don’t want to know from voting systems. They’re not anoraks and most engage with politics at surface level only. TBF most folks see their own daily struggle as their main focus and that’s OK. They simply want to vote for someone they can trust to carry out the job. 1st, 2nd, 3rd ballots, the ins and outs of regional maths won’t cross their horizons.

That the Scottish electorate HAVE become so engaged, for so long, in the past few years is quite remarkable in itself.

For those folks especially, I’d say its fair do’s that they remain engaged enough to turn out on the day and vote their conscience.

link to archive.is

Things that don’t happen in teamGB,

“Protests in Hungary at closure of main leftwing opposition newspaper”

There are none here.

Thanks guys, have to go out to the shops now to look for a new hat for my swelling head, but will it be dearer or cheaper what with the crashing pound? oh the uncertainty!

This site is amazing, comments on the whole are insightful & so knowledgeable. I’m learning something new almost every day. Thanks to all who keep my brain active.

PS Get your badges on, I’m seeing a lot of folk saying they’ve had chats with people commenting on switching from No and my postie tells me he has seen a lot of Yes stickers appearing on windows and doors as well as cars.

Before I forget, David Davis told the Commons yesterday “that the vast majority of British people now just want to get on with implementing Brexit”.

We now have a Tory government at Westminster whose administration is based on ‘because I say so’ politics.
No action, no evidence. Just empty statements from politicians running on empty.

Now that reminds me of Ruth Davidson…. Ruth, running on empty.

schrodingers cat says:
well argued / explained, but a note of caution some parties look like Interdependence minded but are not, take The Scottish Christian Party “Proclaiming Christ’s Lordship”, The Scottish Christian Party, Christian Party (Scotland,),Scottish Christian Party. there may have been also “highlands and islands christian party”
None of these incarnations of the same party are for independence, they abuse the name Scottish.

Just like the new so called Scottish Labour Party, not even a fully fledged branch office more a FOB, (forward operating base) with a supervisor tasked with minor administrative duties.

To be sure of not making a mistake just vote SNP its easier.

thats true macart, but many yes supporters will look for guidance on this and they sure as hell wont get it from the bbc.confusion helps the unionists

from looking at the ward results from 2012, (only a few wards i might add) there is a tendency amongst unionists to give their 2nd and 3rd votes to other unionists. (look at the st andrews result on the previous page and just how many counts it took to get the snp councillor elected and just how few votes he picked up from the eliminated unionist candidates at each count) There is also a tendency for green candidates eliminated for the majority of their 2nd votes to go to snp. But success in a council ward wont be by getting 100% of snp voters to not vote for a unionist candidate, that will never happen, some folk will vote Adolf1Stalin2, there is nothing as queer as folk and nothing anyone can do about it.

my aim here is to get people to focus on their actual wards, not on partick harvey who isnt standing anywhere in 2017. It is they who will be fighting and campaigning in their wards, no one else, and they wont get any help from the snp central office

Indeed, recent announcments by snp central office about the delays in vetting candidates mean that it wont be until the new year(maybe even as late as march??) that anyone will know who the snp candidates are in any ward. That is fatal in a council ward election

The reason I asked that question was because:

Fairliered says:
11 October, 2016 at 7:43 am
I live in a 4 candidate ward where the candidates were:
SNP x 2
Yes voting independent
Tory
Alex Gallagher

The first 3 are easy, but to I also vote for the Tory for my 4th vote to keep wee Alex away from the responsibility of being a councillor or just leave it to chance?

So in relation to answering Fairliered’s question, is the answer ‘you don’t have to put a preference for every candidate on the ballot’?

Cause Fairliered is ‘asking’ a question here and I think it’s important that we catch all the nuances of this so that people have a ‘simple’ message to give to everyone. Don’t vote for any ‘Unionist’ candidates if you are an Independence supporter. Trying to figure out how you can keep Unionist’s out by giving them 4/5th preference votes is completely counterproductive. The whole point is not to give them ‘any’ preference ‘at all’?

@Robert Louis says: 11 October, 2016 at 7:51 am:

… – like making a mandatory speed limit of 20mph in ALL Edinburgh roads, no matter time of day etc.. This is costing millions of pounds for thousands of new road signs and road painting …

Not to mention that by reducing the speed of every vehicle in the restricted area by a third it means these vehicles remain in the area at least a added third longer and thus increase, (more than), a third the pollution caused by exhausts, I say more than because vehicles are much less efficient at 20MPH than they are at 30MPH in addition to the time they remain in the area.

It is easy to calculate the potential saving of life in reduced accidents – a fairly small number in fact, but not so easy to calculate the ongoing increase in pollution aided deaths and crippling illness such as cancers from increased exposure to exhaust emissions.

The point being that the entire population in the restricted speed area will certainly be affected by the extra pollutants while the saving of injury and death due to that 10MPH speed of vehicles is miniscule.

Typically the majority of those sitting on council committees cannot see a millimetre past the end of their own noses.

Back to the future, from Telegraph,

‘They want Theresa May, the Prime Minister, to look at returning a modern-day Britannia to the seas to help secure trade deals once Britain has left the European Union in 2019.’

“We are listening to the arguments and are always open to new ideas like this that will take Britain out of the EU and into the 21st century.”,’

I think that last bit should read … and back into the 19th. century!

None, of England’s bribery, corruption aggression, ignorance, sabotage or gunship -diplomacy will work anymore. It worked before, when the Law was faster than the truth, before education systems and telecommunications.

And while I am on a roll. Will those posters complaining about Scotland games not being free to air please shut up. If you want to see Scotland, then go to the game. The BBC and ITV bosses have noticed, the product is crap, and has been for years, so, they are not willing to pay enough for it to be shown on “cooncil telly”.

Sky has worked-out what it thinks it is worth, the SFA, who also know their product is crap, are quite happy to take whatever pittance Sky will give them, they need the money.”

Bollox. How come they still show England games? Cricket’s unbearable to watch on tv but its shown by BBC gits, Andy Murray’s ghosted by his home nation;s newsrooms, let alone shown winning, and winning like no England athlete’s ever done before, etc.

Its just Britnats in Scotland’s media that will not tolerate any Scottish national sport on their BBC and ITV. It gets the plebs all wound up and flying flags for their country, which doesn’t exist now, if youre a yoon in the UKOK media.

The fact that youre peddling this BBC Scottish sports black out says more about you than you think. One giant driver behind sports is media coverage, that gets more and more people involved. BBC black outs do the opposite. But its how teamGB works now. Britnat stuff beats all. Shut up and watch cricket, loads of blokes standing a field all day.

Britains-nuclear-cover-up

link to archive.is

link to politico.eu

link to bbc.co.uk

Great British tory BBC propaganda

Does Theresa May have support in Labour’s Mansfield?
By Tony Roe
Political editor, BBC East Midlands

Who knows. Surprise us nice BBC man

Is Teresa lovely and clever and wonderful, Labour voters of England?

“Next, the 75-year-old ex-miner, still working as a gardener. Proud he had worked, so far, for 60 years and not intending to retire.

“She’s great and I’ve always been a Labour man,” he said.

“But this woman makes sense. I’m sure she’s going to do a good job for us and we’ve got to be patient and I’m sure at the end of the day we’ll be all better off.”

“I left Birmingham the night before the speech to find out what some real voters, in the Labour stronghold, thought.
We call them vox pops in the trade, from the Latin “vox populi” which means voice of the people – one question asked of randomly picked people in the street.”

What a bunch.

Does Theresa May have support in Labour’s Mansfield?
By Tony Roe
Political editor, BBC East Midlands

If Tony Roe ever comes near me for a slice of his ghastly BBC says vote Teresa “vox populi” it would go much like

The first person I approached was a frighteningly handsome and tall man, in great shape and This is what he said, though, about Theresa May, “take that mike and shove it where the sun don’t shine.” I took that as a vote for Teresa.

Andrew McLean says:
schrodingers cat

To be sure of not making a mistake just vote SNP its easier.

easier for you in your ward Andrew, except it is being mooted that st andrews snp will only stand one candidate in a 4 candidate ward…… If they can find someone willing to stand…. if not then no one will stand.

however, the convenor of yesnef is thinking of standing there, should snp members just abandon st andrews to the unionists? this might be what allows the unionists retaining control of fife council.

nothing is easy about this election. if you want to make a comment about this election, it would be better if it was ward specific. you may inadvertenly mislead other independence supporters in other wards.

see the discussion about candidates standing under the “independent” tag

on Radio ‘Scotland’ this morning

Brexit plans to take royal yacht Brittania away from Leith and use it to ‘woo foreign investors’ because its so impressive

hahahahaha pmsl

Im deeply worried that the UK is the grip of a bunch of such deluded pillocks. And they’ve got nukes.

Glamaig

The world might be more impressed if Westminster took Sir Philip Green’s billion pound Med ‘yacht’ away from him, (along with his ‘knighthood’ forbye).

We call them vox pops in the trade, from the Latin “vox populi” which means voice of the people – one question asked of randomly picked people in the street.”

..and carefully selected and edited in the studio to give the message desired by the producer.

schrodingers cat says:110:55 am St Andrews?

I am Airdrie South mate.

Andrew McLean says:
schrodingers cat says:110:55 am St Andrews?

I am Airdrie South mate.

good for you but you didnt say that, you said

“To be sure of not making a mistake just vote SNP its easier.”

you might be lucky enough to be in a 3 seat ward where standing 3 snp candidates is an option.

but not everyone is in such a fortunate position. I only gave the ward of st andrews as an example, and Ill ask again, what should indy supporters there do if there are no snp candidates?.

btw, it looks like that in all 5 wards in NEF, the snp will only be able to contest 1/3 of the seats, how does “To be sure of not making a mistake just vote SNP its easier.” help us?

Regulated you say?…well that may soon be a thing of the past!

link to bbc.co.uk

@ Desimond – Exactly! Anothwer reason to stay in the EU.

@ DavidB at 8:17 …. ‘BBC’.

Thanks for the list of future media options David (and you’ll know I was being ‘BBC’ facetious!). I’m sure that Alex Salmond outlined his plans in the White Paper too but can’t check what they were right now, as I’m on my IPad. Something along the lines of paying a license fee for a Scottish Broadcasting Service?

Anyway thinking back gave me a bit of a laugh. One threat after another. Threatened with just about everything under the sun other than we’d be going back to the days of using newspaper to wipe our backsides. The currency was the biggy of course, probably lost us the Referendum, and now the precious ‘we’re no sharing’ pound is going right down the drain. Since 2014 it’s worth around two thirds of what it was previously. Being Better Together’s no quite working oot.

…………….

@ Clydebuilt at 9:33am …… ‘Posting problems’.

I experience this too Clydebuilt but have no idea what causes it.

…………….

BBC News / Tory politicians are now comparing Russia to Nazi Germany. Smacks of projection.

……………

@ Call me Dave at 9:01am ….’MORE powers’.

I see that Professor Gallacher, former Whitehall mandarin, is now telling us to back off, drop our plans for Independence, as Scotland will get more powers following Brexit. I’m totally confused. I thought that Scotland had the most powerfully devolved Parliament in the World? No? Where do we go from here then? The Universe?

You’d think they’d just drop this guff. We’ve heard it all before. They’ve had chance after chance and botched it. Their smart Alex, sneering attitude towards us, such as the Vow Con, EVEL being announced on the 19/9/2014 and marching out of bars to vote down every amendment to the Scotland Bill didn’t go unnoticed nor will it be forgotten. Shows you how thick and shortsighted they are. We don’t believe one word any of them have to say and let’s face it how much power can a wee powerless country like Brexit England ‘give’ to anyone? They can stuff their powers and take their Nuclear weapons with them before we bang the door behind them on their way out.

@ Mr Pfeffers

You misunderstand what I am saying.

To receive any live broadcasts – and now any BBC content on catch up – you are required to obtain a TV licence. If we have no licence requirement you are freed from the tax.

I know that most countries do indeed licence TV’s. Ireland does, France and Germany too. But I am arguing that the BBC or SBC is not required. For the majority of content the public do actually consume, the modern marketplace adequately serves the demand.

My only concession is a small space for the “State” broadcast of news and information, which frankly – like News24 or Parliament channel just now – there is likely to be little take up of anyway.

Encouraging local companies to produce TV content is an issue, but I don’t see why that needs a hypothecated tax and a monolithic public broadcaster to provide it.

So “Rubbish” may well be what the BBC produces, but is perhaps an overquick and incorrect response to my original suggestion.

Incidentally, a vote winning proposition to those who basically watch Sky is surely that they don’t have to pay £145 a year over and above the Sky sub.

Vote for independence, spend your $145 anywhere you like.

davidb wrote on 11 October, 2016 at 8:17am
“And the solution is simple enough. No TV licences in independent Scotland. Free to Air channels just that – free. Buy a sub to Sky, Netflix, BT, Amazon. Watch what you like – no licence required.”

Robert Peffers partially quoted on 11 October, 2016 at 10:54 am
“… Buy a sub to Sky, Netflix, BT, Amazon. Watch what you like – no licence required.”

Then Robert Peffers retorted:
“Rubbish! The TV licence is just that – a licence to watch TV broadcasts “FROM ANY SOURCE”. It is NOT a licence just to watch the BBC.”

Robert, i think if you read davidb’ full post and exchanges with Petra they were all having a laugh and he offered a solution to tv licensing in a future independent Scotland. He was not stating his comment was the current situation.

davidb (12:21pm)

Sorry for cross post davidb. Had prepped my response to Robert and before i got the chance to submit it i had to take in a delivery and on my return i just hit submit without checking first if anyone had responded. It’s no like Robert to get his facts wrong, eh! Oh well, no harm done! 🙂

@Petra says ” I thought that Scotland had the most powerfully devolved Parliament in the World? No? Where do we go from here then? The Universe”?

Well Petra, I think now perhaps it’s at that stage of into infinity and beyond ?

You are, of course, spot on as usual. Should this empty rhetoric SHEEITE not be the very SHEEITE that should be getting CHALLENGED by the MSM instead of being reported as a NEW advance on all previous (empty) SHEEITE offerings ?

This is another yoon mission in ‘ Keeping the natives down but we have to say it to try and make/keep them happy’. Brexit damage limitation exercise.They see the natives are restless and so they are rolling out the NEW POWERS matrix.Pity they fail to recognise this is now a spent force and they really need to change the record as it is now becoming very boring being constantly on replay.

Where are all the so very vocal BT people pre Indy ref, who endorsed The Vow, that wonderful Vow which is coming to a parliament near you , the Vow to end all Vows? Why is there so much silence ( from BT high profile charlatans) about us NOW having to leave the EU when it was listed as a potential catastrophe for Scotland via project fear should we choose Indy ? Why is no one who has a platform to voice opinion via MSM on BT side willing to acknowledge the broken promises made pre Indy ?

Why the f*ck are we all having to regurgitate the same sheeite over and over again because of the same sheeite being thrown at us over and over again by the BT mob ?

Questions we constantly have to ask but no answers we are EVER given by BT, instead they spin their little lies and twist it all into their version of the truth and evade the real questions and honest answers by talking down Scotland as a country worthy of independence.

I fear my blood pressure is suffering which perhaps proves being TOGETHER is definitely not BETTER for my health.

ps. Q. When is new powers not new powers ? A. When promised by any one individual or organisation linked to the ethos endorsed by BT.

pps. Questions I asked above re BT peeps were purely rhetorical only….no answers required…..as per feckin usual.

Have a good day Petra and all who write posts on here.Hopefully see some of you on Saturday October 22 in Edinburgh which I believe is being called ‘Unchain the Unicorn’ Indy march .

@schrodingers cat
Mostly I agree with you, just the realtively unimportant thing about not voting unionist candidates at all – you say DON’T pus unionists at all, I say you can put them at the end of the list if you have a preference for one – like the Conservative over Alex Gallagher. And since we had a stong but very civilised argument about the Holyrooed Elections, perhaps other readers can make some conclusions from that.

I would say that everyone should try to check with their local party though, they will or should have a strategy.

The main thing is though that in this thread there’s a whole load of people who don’t know at all, and others have very different views. And that’s the fault of the SNP HQ – it’s their job to do this stuff, but they live in an ivory tower.

So basically, having my A4 sheet and having presented it to mixed reactions to the rest of the committee, it is a subject for the next meeting, but I’m going to escalate this all the way up, including using my bus pass if neccessary and camping out on the steps of Bute House to see the high heid yin herslef until I get to be seen!

This IS very important, and to get done soon. The bitterness between SNP and the other parties really started getting in a few months before Holyrood. Well, for Holyrood with AMS there was nothing much to do. But for the council elections the total facts being out there will help all pro-indy parties, and it’s simple: with STV voting for other pro-indy parties after voting for your own party is a GOOD THING.

Then if the Rev comes out with an article, you and I can STFU! And go back to sleep 🙂

Breeks says:
11 October, 2016 at 12:00 pm
@ Andrew MacLean 10:08

“For the simple reason I don’t like politics.”
Really? This is a political blog, all you ever talk about is politics Breeks.

apart from that I agree with everything you say.

dads, if you are in a position in your ward to determine who your favourite unionist is, well done and good luck to you, but that is probably a step too far even for me. The opposite end of Andrews statement, “just vote snp, its easier”

one thing i would disagree with is the idea that “someone” in your branch will do this for you. even the elected councillors in my branch claim they do not have access to the results from the table monitoring tallies taken during the 2015 and 2016 election results. i doubt few would would be able to work out what the optimal number of snp candidates for each ward would be, let alone work out what the correct tactic for snp voters is to maximising the return of snp candidates, ie, snp 1&2 in one half of the ward and snp2&1 in another. If indeed this were to be considered

more worrying is the central office not being able to announce the completion of their vetting process until march, I intend to ask them if they could release the names of accepted candidates as and when they clear the vetting process.

the snp is still stuggling with the huge intake of new members and isnt the well oiled campaign machine many believe it to be.

@schrodingers cat
Indeed. It did come up that they’re struggling with the huge intake – I said it’s been 2 years! Sad thing is that in that intake there’s a lot of people who could help out and are totally wasted. Bl*dy stupid party. My branch seems to be well clued up though as far as that’s concerned – I did know this before and the committee meeting – my first – confirmed that. Yes, the vetting process is stupid, it means councillor candidates can not actually say officially they’re candidates, yet campaigning is already starting in general terms.

I was at the depute hustings in Greenock 2 weeks ago and my question for the 4 was “Branch meetings can be very boring, what would you intend doing abut that?”. After that one of the committee asked me to stand! I did make it clear when I was nominated that I was basically unaligned, in it for Indy, they just kind of looked at me. I think they’re all strong YES, not just along for the ride. The immediate hustings then was loud, squawking and crying, intense competition for the committee place (one without portfolio). Fortunately someone passed by outside with a chip poke and all the gulls flew away.

The immediate hustings then was loud, squawking and crying, intense competition for the committee place

sounds familiar

maybe i should take a chip poke to the next meeting?