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The list of demands

Posted on October 07, 2015 by

As life’s cruel weight bears increasingly down on your weary and creaking shoulders, readers – and it will, if it hasn’t already – you may find that you become decreasingly tolerant of those who waste your remaining time on Earth.

Certainly, this editor has rather less patience than he did in his youth, and engaged in a debate is often seen attempting to short-cut people’s outpourings of heartfelt rhetoric and hurry them along to their point, pleading “Yes, yes, all those awful things are awful but what is it you want to be actually done? What is your list of demands?”

heraldnicolson

It’s a phrase we’ve found in our minds a lot recently.

Today’s edition of the Herald has a bizarre piece by Magnus Gardham about a house in London owned by SNP MP John Nicolson. Bought as a wreck 20 years ago when he was a BBC and ITN journalist and restored by his own hand, the large townhouse now sits in a newly-fashionable area and is valued in the vicinity of £3m.

Nicolson lives in the property himself when he’s on Parliamentary business, and at other times occasionally rents it out for overnight stays or fashion shoots, earning a few hundred pounds a time. We’re told there’s been a single such engagement in 2015 so far, earning the MP £320.

In the print edition of the paper, the article ends rather snidely on a quote from the East Dunbartonshire MP’s colleague Pete Wishart about members not having outside interests. But on the Herald’s website there’s an extra sentence tacked onto the end from a Scottish Labour spokesman:

“In a debate on MPs second jobs earlier this year, Mr Wishart told the Commons: ‘There should be no second jobs, no paid directorships, no outside interests with a financial return.’

Referring to his comments, a Scottish Labour spokesman said yesterday: ‘Clearly his fellow SNP MP John Nicolson didn’t get the memo.'”

Zing, ooft, etc. We suspect Wishart already rues the lack of nuance in that line, and will continue to do so for some time. But readers may find themselves pondering what course of action the unnamed Labour representative is implicitly calling for.

Presumably they would have Nicolson sell up, pocketing millions of pounds, and then bill the taxpayer for his accommodation expenses when he’s in the capital. The standard budget allowed by IPSA for MPs renting a London home is £20,600 per annum, or £150 a night for hotels.

(Parliament sat for 133 days in the 2014-15 session, which would come to £19,950.)

So rather than have him earn £320 from outside interests, Labour would have Mr Nicolson enrich himself from the bloated London property market and then suck over £100,000 from the public pocket over the course of a Parliamentary term.

We suspect that tells you rather more about Labour’s mindset than it was meant to.

But it’s an attitude that’s undercut a lot of news stories in recent weeks. The media storm around Michelle Thomson’s “£1.7m property empire” (or put another way, about half of John Nicolson’s house) continues unabated in the press this morning, with the Herald devoting its front page to another piece on the now-independent MP.

The implication of a number of fatuous comments from Labour spokespeople, most recently Jackie Baillie, is that Thomson – whose property dealings preceded her election as an MP by years – should have immediately divested herself of her portfolio on winning her seat.

mailhaircut

A couple of weeks ago the Daily Mail dedicated a splash to shock-horror revelations about 15 other SNP MPs’ second incomes – most hilariously that of John McNally, member for Falkirk, who coins in a sickening fortune by, er, cutting hair in his barber’s shop on Saturday mornings, obviously putting him firmly in the pocket of the powerful squirt-of-mousse lobby.

Again, we must assume that the demand – this time voiced by rentaquote Tory MSP Alex Johnstone and Eben Wilson, the sole known member of “Taxpayer Scotland” – is that Mr McNally immediately renounce this lucrative, integrity-prejudicing sideline. We hope for his sake he’s meticulous about declaring any tips.

The serious side to all this desperate straw-clutching (also including the Scotsman and Herald’s innuedo-laden “revelations” yesterday that SNP candidate Ivan McKee had done a small amount of entirely legitimate business with Michelle Thomson’s company in 2013 and 2014 – or as the papers put it, had been “dragged into” and “embroiled in” the “row” surrounding her) is that the witch-hunt becomes so hysterical that it (a) loses all journalistic credibility and (b) risks prejudicing any potential court case so badly that it becomes impossible.

(It’s difficult to assert that someone will get a fair trial when the country’s best-selling Sunday newspaper has already run a massive front-page splash with a picture of her face and a headline screaming “HOW CAN YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT?”)

But when the allied forces of bitter defeated Unionist politicians and furious hacks who’ve just lost their entire Westminster contact book decide to go on the SNP BAD warpath, serious journalism is always the loser.

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    1. 07 10 15 12:43

      The list of demands | Speymouth

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      The list of demands | Politics Scotland | Scoo...

    474 to “The list of demands”

    1. Wulls says:

      “Best selling Sunday newspaper”……. Yes, at present .
      At some stage these august journals will reap what they have been sewing for a very long time.
      If integrity was calories these arseholes would be clipped onto a charm bracelet

    2. Doug Daniel says:

      That Magnus Gardham article really is bizarre. I can’t even figure out what Nicolson is supposed to have done wrong, other than winning a seat for the SNP. The very existence of it tells you far more about Magnus Gardham and the Herald than it does about John Nicolson (other than he has a fabulous eye for detail).

      And the thing is, I can’t imagine anyone but the most rabid SNPouter finding anything wrong in it either. So it doesn’t even do what it’s meant to do, ie put people off the SNP.

      The only conclusion I can come to from all this is that nobody in the Scottish media has ever heard the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

    3. Robert Louis says:

      One can imagine, each morning, sat around the desk of Herald political editor, Magnus Gardham, his crack team of ‘copy and pasters’ (journalists), slavvering at how they could smear the SNP. Each and every one of them within their wee parochial Herald world, convinced the public give a flying you know what about their smear stories. ‘Ho, ho we really have them on the ropes now’ says one of them, ‘ho, ho, say the others’*.

      Meanwhile, in the real world, based upon what I have seen and heard from both YES and NO voters, nobody gives a provervial flying ****.

      Fact is, the kind of ridiculous non-reporting we have been subjected to by the corporate media in Scotland this week, has little impact. Other people have much more important things to think about each day. To political anoraks (self confessed) it is interesting.

      The REAL damage however, is that the wholly evil and mendacious Tory Government, which this week has been verging on fascism, literally destroying peoples lives day by day and hour by hour has escaped serious critique. For that, those in the so called media in Scotland need to hang their heads in shame.

      Scotland has been let down by the corporate media in Scotland, and it is hard to fathom the stupidity involved at all editorial levels. This website, is the ONLY rational source of political discourse on these matters, and it is indeed a terrible indictement of so-called Scottish ‘journalists’ that that is the case.

      (* Apologies to Haruki Murakami)

    4. John D aka Ecosse-Nkosi says:

      I despair at the evil vindictiveness of the unionists and their propaganda machine. I expect those voted into a position of trust (and power) to use that for the betterment of the country, not for themselves. They disappoint me at every turn.

    5. Midgehunter says:

      The list of side-jobs, directorships, management, partnerships, consultants etc. in the Labour or Tory MP/MSP ranks will probably burst any propaganda bubble that’s been spewed out over the last (fill in as appropriate) years.

      Hypocrites one and all.

    6. I’m bored repeating myself. And I’m sure others are equally as bored reading my repetitive announcements:-

      There remains only two effective responses to this infantile standard of so called, “newspaper journalism”.

      1. Stop buying their print copies
      2. Resist visiting their websites

      Those who choose to continue to fund their puerile gossip should not then moan about their content.

      It’s no different from returning to the same crappy restaurant over & over, hoping that one day, someone in the kitchen will figure out how to serve home made lobster bisque instead of offering up a facsimile using a tepid can of Campbell’s tomato soup.

    7. John Wilson says:

      Isn’t John Nicolson the guy who doesn’t take his salary as well? Takes average wage or something?

    8. Wulls says:

      @ Doug Daniel…. I am utterly convinced that the entire Scottish media are so blinded by SNP bad direction from editors and content managers that have forgotten the basic tenants of journalism.
      Get proof was the mantra when I worked in a local newspaper.
      Nothing goes into print unless you have researched to thoroughly and that includes the TV listings.
      These days are gone.

    9. Another great article Stu. But do you know what? I am sick of these people trying to discredit the SNP. It seems every day there is another smear story by the press or some disgruntled MP.
      I am sure there is an awful lot of people with the same view. But there will come a time when we will be so fed up hearing and reading this nonsense that we will become immune to them,so that if there comes a time when a story has a grain of truth to it we will just shrug our shoulders and go straight to the crossword page

    10. Auld Rock says:

      These shit stirrers would do well to read this warning very, very carefully, “Those who choose to sow the wind will quickly find themselves reaping a whirlwind”.
      Adapted from Arthur ‘Bomber’Harris.

      Auld Rock

    11. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      Rev Stu,

      I feel sorry for you having to dredge through all that pathetic propaganda.

      I never read the newspapers anymore apart from the occasional National and Sunday Herald and never watch the TV news and political programs at all. I feel a lot calmer for it. 🙂

      It is a amazing that the papers still believe that they have major power over the Scottish people. More and more people are turning away from the MSM and I hope this continues and these papers and the Unionist parties they represent are consigned to history.

    12. muttley79 says:

      @Doug Daniel

      The only conclusion I can come to from all this is that nobody in the Scottish media has ever heard the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

      Nail on head. Incidentally, while the corporate media in Scotland are whipping themselves up into a frenzy over the Thompson story, I wonder if they will mention this story on the Guardian website:

      http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/07/bishop-peter-ball-escaped-charges-mps-royal-family-intervened-court

      MPs, a lord chief justice, a member of the royal family and public school headmasters all intervened to stop a bishop being prosecuted for sexual abuse 22 years ago, the Old Bailey has heard.

    13. Capella says:

      Hilarious journalism. Alex Salmond writes newspaper columns and books. John Nicholson lives in a house he owns. Ivan McKee bought some Edinburgh property to let out – clue, he’s a businessman. John McNally cuts hair, Tommy Sheppard owns a comedy club. Shocking.

      Strangely, The Telegraph’s pen portrait of the “maverick” MPs elected in May failed to spot Michelle Thomson among them.

      https://archive.is/IINZj

    14. ClanDonald says:

      I don’t know about anyone else but I’m finding all this press hysteria a bit mental. It’s extraordinary, this level of frenzy is usually reserved for murder accusations and beautiful princesses. I really don’t think they’re doing themselves any favours. Then they whine that no-one is listening to them any more.

      They’re driven by fear. It’s clear that they’re doing their best to prevent an SNP majority at Holyrood next year as it’s the only way they can now prevent an indyref2 and the certain end of Britain. That’s what their ‘list of demands” is, a panic-stricken battle for a unionist majority in the Scottish Parliament or it’s game over.

      As for the Michelle Thomson smears, I reckon the media are creating such a hysterical hype out of the “vulnerable seller” angle because they know it’s a load of bollocks and she’ll never face any charges related to this; if she does end up in court it would probably be for the back to back selling and mortgage side of things which they are keeping quiet on.

    15. mi says:

      “Those who choose to sow the wind will quickly find themselves reaping a whirlwind”.

      Or MUCH better:

      “Those who choose to sow the wind will quickly find themselves reduced to being little farts”.

    16. Garrion says:

      It’s been a long game strategy for a while now; separate the SNP, in the minds of the people, from the idea that they represent the people. It’s a form of propaganda, and has been dripping non stop since they actually have become the voice of the Scottish electorate. This wind, cant and pish wont end til independence.

    17. Kininvie says:

      What is so disappointing is that the consequences of all the muck-raking will be that fewer and fewer people (maybe especially women) will put themselves forward for election.

      The 2015 candidates included a lot of Yessers who had no previous background in politics, and have proved themselves in Westminster to be an articulate and interesting bunch of people.

      But after seeing this kind of monstering going on and ‘dragging in’ people like John Nicholson for doing nothing other than having good taste, who on Earth will want to stand as a candidate in future – other than the usual clones, spads and the terminally ambitious?

      The MSM does everyone (and themselves) a disservice by resorting to the Jeremy Kyle formula of melodrama, false emotion, and allegation, in an effort to prop up sales.

    18. morag Towndrow says:

      I stopped buying the Herald a few months ago because my digital National was doing the job for me. However this morning over a M&S scone and coffee I treated myself … haha! … to a Herald and read this incredibly nonsensical article. It’s as though the editor has told his staff to balance the sister paper by taking a negative view even when there isn’t one to find. Terrible piece of drivel. And yet a couple of pages/ a few feet of office space away there is the great Ian Bell! Very very odd.

    19. crisiscult says:

      possibly the greatest ever opening sentence to an article I’ve ever read.

    20. Despite all their lies and halve truths the papers can’t hide the fact that the Scottish people know that the S.N.P. Are the best people to rule Scotland and no amount of lies will change that

    21. galamcennalath says:

      There is a lot of info on positive versus negative campaigning online.

      Negative can work, particularly with a specific attack at a critical moment.

      The problem with negative campaigning is it can easily backfire. The more you do it, the greater the chance of it going wrong.

      I am still of the opinion that if the SNP stay with a firm positive message, and don’t rise to the bait, then they will fare better than the Unionists relentless negativity.

      One thing to bear in mind is that the Unionists have no choice but to go negative. There is no positive case for them to promote.

      The SNP had/have a choice. They choose to stay positive.

      Do the Unionist plan seven months for of this? I sense it is going to go really badly for them. This Unionist dross, day after day, will inevitably show them up for what they are – Nasty grubby Naesayers with nae message and nae ideas.

    22. gillie says:

      The Media-Unionist Axis serves the purpose of putting us Jocks in our place. To them we are a nation of cultural pygmies scared even of our shadow if we dare to step out in the sun

    23. X_Sticks says:

      ClanDonald says:

      “It’s clear that they’re doing their best to prevent an SNP majority at Holyrood next year as it’s the only way they can now prevent an indyref2 and the certain end of Britain.”

      Just beat me to it CD.

      I suspect the concerted attack on all things SNP is being co-ordinated by MI5. They are still No1 threat to the state and must be eliminated. We’ll need to watch the voting in May. I don’t trust them at all.

    24. gordonbrownstuff says:

      Desperation stakes now for the unionists and unionist media, the hysteria and panic from them is becoming loud and incoherent and ever more pathetic with each passing day. Is it because polls show that the majority ie over 50% now favour Independence? What will the story be tomorrow SNP man ate my hamster?

    25. desimond says:

      Dear Westminster
      Can we appoint Lord Watson to oversee an investigation?

      The Shark has now been jumped so often the crowd aren’t even saluting Fonzie anymore

    26. Legerwood says:

      On the subject of property deals, a small item tucked away in The Herald on Monday of this week: Tom Continued, the actor, is selling his London home. He bought it 30 years ago for £700,000 and it is up for sale at £15 million. Good for him.

      Even 30 years ago £700k was a lot of money and like most people in professions such as acting, journalism etc where income fluctuates buying property as an investment to ensure a pension income is not unusual. So what this MP did long before he became an MP was, and is, in no way unusual.

      The Herald has been roundly and rightly derided for their story about this MP in the on-line comments section of the newspaper.

      Also noticed an article in the Stirling Observer on the MT case. Apparently Mr Frank Gilbride has applied to Stirling Council for a taxi driver’s licence.

    27. ” serious journalism is always the loser.”

      I cannot think of any serious journalism in the last three decades, as a whole. Take the expenses scandal, one newspaper turned it down, the newpaper that published it did do any digging the person handed the evidence to it. If we had to depend on journalists, doing the investigations, to bring wrongdoers to account we would still be in the dark.

    28. I meant to say the newspaper didn’t do any digging.

    29. thomas William Dunlop says:

      Like first world generals who only had one answer for everything. All over the top for on an onslaught to try and smash the “hun”. Did not work then and won’t work now they have managed to switch off 45 % of the population, or should I say switch on folk to a whole new world of possibilities.

      It is obvious that they is a concerted effort going on to knock a dent in the SNP to stop them at any cost of getting a majority again at Holyrood next year. I wonder how long it will take to come out of the bunkers, or for them to find out they have just lost afew more thousand No voters in the process

    30. Davy says:

      Honestly at the end of the day, does anyone really believe the bullshit the unionist press prints. They can put any type of spin on it they want but it is very badly written or broadcasted.

      Myself and the wife have watched both the STV and the BBC’s versions of the poor abused couple who sold their house and made a profit. But now resent Michelle Thomsons company for making a profit as well but only five years later.

      Come on, you would have to be a numpty the size of Jackie Ballie to believe that shite. Are you sure the wifey wasn’t reading from one Kezia’s scripts or was it the interviewers.

      Just give them all enough rope and they will hang themselves, I hope they all have lawyers, I reckon their going to need them.

    31. Kenzie says:

      Ronald Russell @ 12.33.

      Better still, don’t buy the fuckin’ rubbish.

    32. Steve says:

      So rather than have him earn £320 from outside interests, Labour would have Mr Nicolson enrich himself from the bloated London property market and then suck over £100,000 from the public pocket over the course of a Parliamentary term.

      We suspect that tells you rather more about Labour’s mindset than it was meant to.

      I think the real target of the Wishart comments was the 10k+ income he earns from the Tower Hamlets property, mentioned VERY briefly in the article.

      Based on that line from the Wishart speech(but not the entire speech, which is mainly focussed on work that takes time away from being an MP), its probably a valid news item, but the article is ridiculously framed – most likely to try and create a connection in peoples minds with MT, property etc. Meh. Spin.

      Expect Iain Blackford will be next – directorships, property, the lot. Not ideal. The SNP need to just own this now, or every single member with an outside interest will be a target – all due a terrible line in what was a very good Wishart speech.

      AS for the media, i’m minded of a quote I read from Peter Mandelson when he entered government.

      “Of course we want to use the media, but the media will be our tools, our servants; we are no longer content to let them be our persecutors.”

      Seems the media bought it entirely, and haven’t stopped.

    33. Training Day says:

      There’s a rumour going around that Gardham has been tipped off that there may have been a ‘financial transaction’ between the SNP and the venue the former has hired for its conference.

      Watch this space..

    34. gordonbrownstuff says:

      As has been said these co-ordinated attacks more than likely have the brit stasi aka M15/GCHQ filthy fingerprints all over them. We need to be vigilant and watch for any suspicious activity when it comes to voting during the Holyrood elections.

    35. Camz says:

      @Wulls (07/10/15 – 12:33pm)

      “Get proof was the mantra when I worked in a local newspaper.”

      Somewhat akin to advice I was given for essay writing. Whenever you write anything, ask yourself:

      “So what?” – i.e. is the point the writer is making valid to the point of the subject?

      and

      “Who says?” – attributable sources

      Very simple mantras, ensuring a degree of veracity. Modern journalism seems to be based more on:

      1. “Will it make money?”

      2. “Does it follow the newspaper owners’ political allegiences?”

      3. If 1 & 2 are satisfied, find a way to make it true.

    36. Bob Mack says:

      So! It would appear that to become an SNP member of Parliament,you should have;

      1. Had an unsuccessful career.
      2. Had a poorly paid employment.
      3. Lived with your mum and dad instead of buying a house.
      4. Kept no savings of any description.
      5. Be indifferent to any assets prior to becoming an MP.
      6. Do not make sure you have sufficient for retirement.
      7. Be prepared to live in a tented village whilst in London.
      Bejesus, Glad I am not applying to represent Scotland in Parliament.

    37. I can reveal to Magnus Gardham that following his article today The Herald has lost another customer. I never thought that I would see anything like this from The Herald.

    38. desimond says:

      Has Michelle Mone been asked for comment?, or supplied one regardless?

      Recent BBC findings (cant archive): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31619780

      From Guardian 2013

      Analysis by the Guardian reveals 20 MPs made more money from their outside jobs than they did from their Parliamentary salary, with some spending more than 1,000 hours engaging in outside employment. Of those, 17 declared more than £100,000 in income …

      In total, Conservative MPs declared more than £4.3m in earnings from outside directorships or jobs, versus £2.4m (including Gordon Brown’s £1.36m) for Labour. More than 50 MPs had directorships of at least one company, while 295 declared at least some kind of minimal earnings from outside work. >/I>

    39. David McKeen says:

      It’s pretty much just white noise now: Someone in the SNP has maybe done something mildly immoral and you should all be outraged about it.

      It’s become so tiresome now that I’m not even listening anymore.

    40. Clydebuilt says:

      The Herald is Magnus Gardham’s plaything. With a little help from his apprentice Daniel Sanderson. Out a sizeable staff of political journalists only one hails from Scotland, Robin Dinwoodie, not that should matter, just an observation. One thing I don’t get is, what is the attraction for journalilsts to come up here to work in a failing sector of their industry.

    41. GrahamB says:

      Reminiscent of ‘Nicola Sturgeon has a better coffee maker than her constituents’! What drivel, not even worthy of becoming chip paper.
      So will it now be illegal for politicians to write (paid) articles/columns for papers or appear on QT?

    42. Steve says:

      There’s a rumour going around that Gardham has been tipped off that there may have been a ‘financial transaction’ between the SNP and the venue the former has hired for its conference.

      Watch this space..

      Would this be news? Aberdeen is building a new Conference Centre. The Labour council made a total arse of it and threatened to kill the deal if ScotGov didn’t help. Scottish Enterprise got involved and supplied (I believe), £10 million.

      Richard Baker MSP (Labour) quoted in the local rag…

      “It is vital that the government gets behind this vital project for the future of Aberdeen”

      “In the past ministers have ensured Scottish Enterprise has funds to support the venues in Edinburgh and Glasgow and so it is only right they support the new centre in Aberdeen as well.

      A total of £25million was provided by Scottish Enterprise for the new Hydro in Glasgow so it would simply be unfair if Aberdeen did not receive similar support for the new AECC.”

      The venue is also council owned, so it would be a financial transaction between the Scottish Government/Scottish Enterprise and Aberdeen City Council.

      I can’t see the Labour led ACC keeping quiet if the SNP was quietly throwing it money that it shouldnt…

      This could be interesting!

    43. Macart says:

      Oh for **** sake!

      Do these pricks no have flies in need of having their wings removed somewhere they can bother with?

      Simply dire from both opposition parties and the press.

    44. Clydebuilt says:

      This tabloidisation of the Herald has to be a gamble, probably the final nail in it’s coffin. If he keeps on this track, before long Gardham will have the death of the Herald on his CV. But not his conscience.

    45. Fiona says:

      You know what? I LIKE the fact that it is possible to see one’s MP in an ordinary setting doing ordinary things, like cutting hair or attending a book launch. It might stop them becoming completely cut off in the WM bubble.

      I don’t feel the same about them sitting on the boards of big corporations, though. Cos that is not out where I can see what they are up to. That, though, is perfectly acceptable, and, indeed, often defended on grounds that it keeps MP’s in touch.

      Funny, isn’t it?

    46. MJack says:

      Reminds me of the Carmicheal affair when it was front page for days with quotes from the Loyalist party/s including wee Willie Rennie who all then found that they had been had and were left with egg on their faces.

      As far as I can see there’s very little in this story except SNPBad and “look over there” “don’t look at the conservatives party conference where the cruel and evil people are meeting”

    47. heedtracker says:

      Well that’s tomorrow’s Press and Journal headlines sorted anyway. Neo fascist Voice of the North goes massive today with a scoop on a ferociously corrupt SNP MP called Thompson and “Inquiry into fraud claims involving SNP MP to widen”

      Makes a change from P&J creeps waiting outside Aberdeen Sheriff court for convicted benefits fraudsters, to expose, shame, monster, sell ad space on their disgusting outfit.

    48. starlaw says:

      SNP taking the best line, stand back say nothing, let them get on with it, nothing to do with us guv. You invented it.

      Meanwhile Tory conference rumbles on in all its vileness safe in the knowledge that the press has better things to be getting on with like assisting them {tories} in their attacks against the NHS and Welfare state.
      Leave the papers on the shelves.

    49. Colin Church says:

      The BBC should not be allowed to use time for newspaper reviews of right and far right wing newspapers.

      Why should Barclay brothers et al get free coverage of their Edvertorials and their newspapers name checked every night and every morning?

      This is the BBC news… What Crazy Cockers says really, we can’t be arsed.

    50. Helena Brown says:

      My goodness the Tory Party and I seem to remember that they have a small majority are having a conference and all the “ahem” Papers can discuss is salacious gossip. Perhaps they should be classed as a poor person’s Hello.
      Seem to remember that in September 2014 Scotland gave the “Okay” for whosoever is in power at Westminster to actually issue pocket money to Scotland and those who managed the Country were just about allowed to spend it. Of course they forgot we might just vote in a whole lot of SNP MP’s and this has got up their hump.

    51. Graham MacLure says:

      Aye, they are fast running out of inspiration.What next?
      SNP MP’s shoe size is too small/ to big to be an MP?

    52. Valerie says:

      It’s the sound of barrels being scrapped very hard.

      With McNally in particular, this will backfire badly. He is embedded into his community. He served as a local councillor on Falkirk Council, and had a solid reputation as a local crafter.

      As I said on a previous thread, I’m sure they were warned that their back story would be turned inside out. I wouldn’t be surprised if they rehearsed a scandal the way MT gave up the whip.

      And we have to crowdfund legal action on a proven self confessed liar, that has no shame. The latest on that seems to be a refusal by Fluffy to release memos – quelle surprise.

      Do not remove your seatbelts.

    53. Chitterinlicht says:

      I do wonder what else is coming down the pipeline.

      It really is silly season.

    54. Tinto Chiel says:

      The only answer to all this is SNP/SNP in May, since The Establishment needs to stall the momentum for independence.

      The mud-slinging has become so hysterical that people just switch off. That’s why we got 56 seats last May: the law of diminishing returns will continue to take effect.

    55. wilma mcewan says:

      I now want to know who the quarter of Tory mp”s ,the 12% Lab & the 15% Lib dems ,that all own houses to let ,are, and how they can whinge and greet about this.His ONLY crime was to be elected ,in fact all SNP MPs ,are because of election ,banned from even trying to do anything that is openly A-OK for the establishment.

      I cannot say enough how bitterly disappointed I am at still having anything to do with this British system ,and being vilified for having the cheek to elect ,the ppl we wanted ,all this is “punishment” because,we democratically sent the SNP to the hallowed walls of a stinking corrupt building ,that now looking at Guy Fawkes in a different light,fervently wish he had succeded

    56. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well I suppose the realistic title for the piece “S.N.P. lives in London house he has owned for over 20 years and is saving the taxpayer £100,000 over the next five years.” just doesn’t cut it these days does it? 😀

      Why does the Herald not just go the whole hog and change their name to something like “We hate the S.N.P. Daily.” I mean WE all know they hate the S.N.P. why do they continue with their cowardly ways of pretending to be anything other than a S.N.P. hating collection of dead wood? 😉

    57. Les Wilson says:

      I agree with others, all this SNP bad stuff from the Corporate Media, is now winging itself over our heads.
      Our folk, of all ilk’s, cannot fail to see the Unionist agenda to unsettle the position of the SNP, and it’s many supporters.

      It is of course an attack on Scottish democracy, they are saying we cannot have it. We are saying, we will take it.

      Watched a little bit of Cameron’s speech today, what I see now is a man who is now bloated with arrogance. He had god like rapture from the audience and his ego is now ballooning to great heights.

      He looks like and sounds like a person who can do what he wants, and what he wants goes. We will wait and see how that turns out.

      What I do think, and borne out by recent events, the SNP are on his death wish list. We really need much more security over the votes in May. If not we are certainly going to be screwed out of it being a success.

      We really need to be more aware of what is happening. I suspect MI5 will already have it’s instructions and will be given all authority to do what it needs to, to defeat our democratic rights.

    58. David Mooney says:

      RE The Mail on Sunday. It states he has a second job as a MSP.

      Doesn’t Alex donate one of his political salaries to charity? I’m sure I read that somewhere (not sure which one though). I know he did it in the past when he was a Westminster MP and MSP at the same time. So I’m guessing he does it now.

    59. Brian says:

      People believe want they want to believe. And these newspapers give the sanctimonious anti SNP factions the opportunity to take the moral high ground. It’s clearly a sign that the propaganda war is being ramped up already, 7 months before the Scottish Parl Election.
      Michelle Thomson, Police Scotland, GM Crops, Bed Blocking Stats…all “crises” that make a quick&dirty anti SNP Govt headline (esp on Reporting Scotland).
      It’ll just get worse now.

    60. john king says:

      “Taxpayer Scotland”!!!

      Whoohahahahahaha

    61. louis.b.argyll says:

      Scraping the barrel of the gutter, these ‘news’papers.

      Their ‘friends’ in the Labour Party in Scotland will say anything, do anything to slur the SNP.

      They will rue the day they stooped too low, which was probably a week last Tuesday.

      We’ll never know exactly which lie broke the camels back, because the lies are so thick we’re losing track of time, never mind weight.

    62. Colin Church says:

      The Scotland section of BBC online has NO coverage of Tory conference or Cameron’s speech in front page stories.

      Are we not better together any more? Can we not see what our PM is saying and what that means for us on our own regional page?

      Squirrel! Property! SNP BAD!

    63. Iona says:

      Why does the Herald hate Scotland so? They take every opportunity to trash us, anyone associated with us and play down any legitimate issues we might have with Westminster et al. What is their problem?

      Me, I’m totally scunnered with them! They are what the word was invented for.

    64. woosie says:

      Until today, the herald was my second choice daily, if the National was sold out ( frequently ). Not now. That may not lead to mass instances of falling on own letter openers, but there will be more like me. We can take fair criticism of our politicians, but this stuff’s getting out of hand.

      The media have almost managed to whip up a slight foam; I trust MI5 have something major to end this with. I may go bald scratching my head trying to work out why anyone would waste resources in this way.

    65. Sinky says:

      Its open season on the SNP by the despicable Britain First media.

      After giving up on The Scotsman I started to buy The Herald many years ago but gave it up last month as it was getting just as bad.

      I will continue to buy The National and the Sunday Herald, much to the chagrin of the fundamentalists on this forum, as they deserve to be supported by all of us ..warts and all.

      When I was a part time journalist many moons ago we, from different papers, used to discuss what line to take on any issue.

      Thanks to all the cut backs, journalists are under a lot of pressure but that’s no excuse for ill informed witch hunts particularly as they now have easy internet sources to check facts.

    66. galamcennalath says:

      Moodie Vision reminds us of who is who in the rich zoo!

      Very timely!

      http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/10/07/moodievision-we-are-the-rich/

    67. walter scott says:

      If Thomson is brought down by this then the pack will move onto their next target. Any snp MP/MSP will do. Hopefully by next May there will be grave doubts about the SNP. A comment above mentions MI5 being involved. Like the vile cybernat attacks on national treasures such as JK Rowling their shadowy presence cannot be dismissed. Didn’t the press, labour, tories look into Mrs & Mr Wrights complaint against Michelle Thomson & think they’re a pair of stooges?

    68. Does anyone know if The Vice-Regal Governor and Chief Numpty to Her Majesties Colony Of Scotchland The Right Horrible Fluffy Mundell has spoken his tupence worth at The Nuremberg Rally in Manchester yet.

    69. Sinky says:

      And finally come to think of it

      Why does the BBC or Sky TV evening newspaper reviews never include the front page of The National?

      I am going to complain … join me

    70. heedtracker says:

      7 months before the Scottish Parl Election.
      Michelle Thomson, Police Scotland, GM Crops, Bed Blocking Stats…all “crises” that make a quick&dirty anti SNP Govt headline (esp on Reporting Scotland).
      It’ll just get worse now.

      BBC are not mad, so it’s going to come in waves of SNP attack. Background BBC sez vote SLab, Holyrood bad noise, with cyclical Thompson style monstering hysteria every two weeks,

      UKOK Union Jack drape tirumphalist Trident 2 makes you rule Britannia safe, great British bake off style BBC Toryboy nationalism. By next April and May, full on assault on everything Scottish SNP. BBC sez Scottish cops, medics, teachers etc are completely terrible but they will be pretty dead to it all by then, possibly.

    71. ian says:

      Just a smokescreen to distract attention away from the issue of house prices. A town house worth 3m? How did that happen? It appears that money laundering has played a significant part. How about more attention payed to this instead of bogus anti SNP propaganda. See http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/foreign-criminals-are-pushing-up-uk-house-prices-10415413.html

    72. Nation Libre says:

      I have to say, and this may well not be popular, but from day one I was sceptical about promoting the Sunday Herald and later The National. Regardless of people telling us how independent they are from the daily Herald, it’s still the same company. Funding one is merely keeping the other afloat

      I’d much rather give my money to WoS and iScot and the likes, than prop up yet another MSM propaganda tool

      I’m done with it. Let the true independent seeking media outlets push through rather than the ones with feet in both camps

    73. Dr Jim says:

      I must say like everybody else I was finding this Witch hunting of SNP MPs distressingly sickening up until yesterday
      when it began to take on a new and strange turn

      In their eagerness to portray the SNP as not whiter than white or the guardians of truth and justice, they, to coin a phrase “Huv went too far” and the whole exercise has now descended into hilarity

      The BBC and print media have just proved beyond any reasonable doubt how anti SNP they are, even to the moderate NO voters and for the YES side this has merely served to harden and firm up the SNP vote share which looks like being massive now

      Last night STV with “JOHN McKAY” attempted to rescue themselves by presenting a fairer look at this whole non news story but even for them this still may have been a bit tardy and it would serve STV well if they were to extricate themselves from this ranting pack PDQ although the di is cast on the vote they might regain some credibility with some viewers

      Tonight I believe Mis reporting Scotland will dive back into SNP Baad on health with their resident attack dog on these matters, everybody’s favourite Eleanor Bradford with Shona Robison defending for the SNP
      The piece will be prerecorded to facilitate editing with overdubbing in all the right places

      It would seem last year taught them nothing, no matter how much they try the SNP vote share goes up…. so

      Thanks for that

    74. Lesley-Anne says:

      You are right Alex he does donate one of his salaries to charity. Like you though I can’t remember which one it is. 😀

    75. Gillian_Ruglonian says:

      crisiscult @ 12.59

      Seconded!

    76. Dr Jim says:

      I’ve met some SNP MPs I admit it, but I’m not sorry and I’d do it again

      I’ll accept my punishment now

    77. One_Scot says:

      This politically motivated (‘look at what they’re doing, we know it’s not that news worthy and is pathetically trivial, but as long as you’re not looking at what we’re doing’) strategy used by the Establishment has a very similar feel to the use of programmes like ‘Benefit Street’ and ‘On benefits and Proud’.

      It’s funny how they never show you ‘Bankers Bonus Street’ or ‘Millionaire Tax avoidance Lane’.

      At the end of the day it is going to get a lot worse. One of two things will happen, they will ether destroy us, or we will refuse to die. I know where I am.

    78. Nana Smith says:

      @Macart

      Blood pressure!!!!!!!!

    79. Fireproofjim says:

      Don’t talk to me about the Herald. The Scotsman is in full “SNP bad” mood today, with five stories with an anti-SNP twist spread over six pages, including two on the front page.
      Never mind. They are a shrunken and biased relic of a once great paper, losing more readers every day, and soon to disappear.

    80. ClanDonald says:

      I know some of you are saying the Herald has lost another customer today but apparently this article was the top rated story on their website today. This means they’re getting an awful lot of clicks and therefore revenue, probably from all of us.

      The more they wind us up the more money they make, don’t fall for it.

    81. yesindyref2 says:

      I mentioned the MT and smear business to my wife, the fount of all knowledge and wisdom, and she said “but they’ve always done that”.

      Well, yes they have, but only really in the old days the tabloids, those with a high circulation, onsite legal department, and an accountant who would decide if it was worth the £200,000 in damages for the increased circulation meanwhile.

      What’s happened is that the Quality papers like, errr, the Scotman and the Herald, are following suit, as are ones down south as well. But they don’t have decades of experience of doing it, their legal team who also makes the tea has no specialisation in this, and their accountant is using Danny Alexander’s calculator.

      In short, they’re bumbling amateurs in a genre they know not of. If they keep it up they’ll become part of history, and the sooner the better.

    82. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      I started buying The Herald again six months ago.

      After the pish about John Nicolson they can GTF.

    83. Fred says:

      Gardham of course is a complete shit, haven’t bought the Herald for over a year now although I was a customer for the previous thirtyfive.

    84. Harry McAye says:

      Well I for one am simply staggered and appalled.

      Folk on here were still buying The Herald!!!

    85. Macart says:

      @Nana

      Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

      Sick of the lot of them.

    86. gillie says:

      Hundreds of subscriptions cancelled, thousands of newspapers unsold on stands, now talk of possible further redundancies if this trend was to continue. The Herald has certainly shot itself in both feet.

    87. yesindyref2 says:

      @galamcennalath
      Yes, I think it’s vital the SNP keep a steady head and let it all wash off them. The tabloids, and they’re all tabloids now, will self-destruct in 10 seconds, as will their mission.

    88. gordonbrownstuff says:

      In many ways the state of the press and tv in Scotland mirror the decline of the union. They like the union are moribund and utterly redundant and offer nothing but negativity day in day out! And like the union are basically finished!

    89. Luigi says:

      Quite a few second rate unionist, royal arse-licking editors consider themselves to be Citizen Kane, I reckon. Well, sorry to burst their bubble, but the only people who believe their guff anymore are those that still want to believe it.

      You know what really pisses them off? The fact that popular SNP politicians, in government for eight years, can still walk the streets, spontaneously surrounded by grateful admirers and well-wishers, whilst their tory chums, if they stepped away from the security screens, the police guards and the sniper cover for one minute, would be set upon immediately by angry crowds.

    90. heedtracker says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34460822

      Its interesting watching BBC Scotland propaganda sometimes trying to get away with their two nations in union pretence because there’s nothing about pig fancier Cammer’s assault on poverty speech triumph, joy, glory actually online BBC Scotland.

      How odd.

      BBC says Red Tory Scotland region, blue Tory England/UK. Purr purr.

    91. yesindyref2 says:

      @Training Day
      Ah, I can see the headline now:

      “SNP offer financial inducement to hall to host their conference for free. Bad SNP!”

    92. Nana Smith says:

      @Macart

      Me too. I saw someone on twitter took their copy back to the shop and told them to cancel his sub. Let’s hope lots of folk follow suit.

      Stopped reading the herald a long time ago, never go there so never link to any of their rubbish. Not even good enough to wrap chips in.

    93. Kenzie says:

      Nation Libre @ 2.12

      Hear! Hear! Quite why people are so blind to the obvious regarding this, I do not know?

    94. Embradon says:

      “As far as I can see there’s very little in this story except SNPBad and “look over there” “don’t look at the conservatives party conference where the cruel and evil people are meeting””

      That would be cruel and evil people we told you you’d be BetterTogether with.

    95. yesindyref2 says:

      @Jim Finlayson
      I’ve been posting in the Herald for 2 years. Spent not one peeny in digital subscription, and I don’t think I’ve bought the paper. Sunday Herald yes at times but not any more, and National, yes at times.

      I’ve never clicked (bar once) on their ads either, annoying slow jerky things they are, and the one time I did click on something proclaiming funny stuff on Disney, I got contaminated by a popup malware that directs you to a spam site saying you’ve won a car or money or something, I checked online and that turned out to be a scam where you have to pay for your prize which you don’t get. Herald has debilitating terminalitis.

    96. Luigi says:

      Folks, don’t mention this to the unionist, corporate media (after all, why interrupt your enemy………?), but I think they have royally screwed up this time. Think about this:

      Many soft NO voters voted SNP in May.

      Many soft NO voters actually like the SNP.

      SNP voters have been offended by the behaviour of the corporate media.

      Many soft NO voters who voted SNP have been offended by the behaviour of the corporate media.

      Low hanging fruit for IndyRef 2, methinks. 🙂

    97. heedtracker says:

      From red tory The Graun

      Addressing the Conservative party conference in Manchester, Cameron said of Corbyn:

      You only really need to know one thing: he thinks the death of Osama bin Laden was a “tragedy”.

      No. A tragedy is nearly 3,000 people murdered one morning in New York. A tragedy is the mums and dads who never came home from work that day. A tragedy is people jumping from the towers after the planes hit.

      My friends – we cannot let that man inflict his security-threatening, terrorist-sympathising, Britain-hating ideology on the country we love.”

      All wrapped up in non jingoistic giant union jacks. Pig fancier Cammers learnt a great from Project Fear. No doubt Bliar MacBloater is very proud of himself.

    98. Brian Powell says:

      gillie

      I think it is more, the Herald put it’s foot in its mouth, then shot it.

    99. Haggis Hunter says:

      They’ve been spreading the hate agenda for decades, its now having the opposite affect.

    100. Janet says:

      Hmmm, if I were to do a piece on Edinburgh West SNP, I would look at the deselection of Colin Keir, not MT’s business past!

      But I don’t think that Colin Keir stories sell newspapers, nor do I think it equates with SNP bad.

      Who knows, in time I might even join the SNP!

      Vote Cole-Hamilton (Lib Dem): no chance. Well done MSM!

    101. heedtracker says:

      Clap hands, be happy, Ruthies here to save the union, with a terrific Ruth photo too, aren’t BBC Scotland lovely to the toryboys and girls.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34459456

      Good old Holyrood list vote n stuff.

      After some ahem, unpleasantness business wise the last tory leader and his ahem resignation for well usual stuff teamGB media brush under that giant carpet of UKOK shysters, war mongers, paedos, drunks, junkies, house flippers…

      Vote NO wikipedia says

      “Subsequently Davidson, although coming a distant fourth in Glasgow Kelvin, was elected to the Scottish Parliament on the Glasgow region list.[18] After the election, she was appointed by Goldie as the Conservative spokesperson for Culture, Europe and External Relations.[3]”

      From a distant four in her constituency, to saviour of the NO.

    102. David McDowell says:

      The coordinated media witch hunt against the SNP continues.
      There is only one thing the public can do to stop this: vote in large numbers for any SNP politician who is attacked by the media.
      This has two effects: you get a representative in parliament and you stick two fingers up to propagandists posing as journalists. Seems like a good deal.

    103. yesindyref2 says:

      The answer is simple, but hard to stick to. Deprive the Herald of sensible comments, and leave behind the hysteria. I think its digital edition subsidises the paper version.

    104. Proud Cybernat says:

      Most days I wake up, read stories such as the one above (and all the MT rubbish) and think that I must be living in some kind of parallel universe, some altered reality. And I ask myself–who is it that is creating this distortion of truth, this altered reality? It is, of course, the BritNat Corporate Media, aided by a very compliant and powerful State-sponsored Broadcaster. These are the rabid BritNats who are creating this altered reality, this assault on truth.

      They are the ‘AlterNats‘. They include all Unionist politicians, newspapers and broadcasters.

      These ‘AlterNats‘ are your worst kind of nationalist–the rabid, frothing BritNat who resorts to altering and distorting truth to suit their own narrow, self-serving, imperialist agenda.

      We are in the midst of a major propaganda war, folks–it is a ‘war’ between CyberNats using mainly Social Media to get its message through and the AlterNats who deploy Corporate Media and the State-Sponsored Broadcaster to distort the truth.

      Cybernats may well use the inernet to get its message across but it is a message backed up by unaltered facts. Never trust an AlterNat.

    105. heraldnomore says:

      According to Guido’s twitterati chums ActionKrankie went down a storm in the hall earlier and is the natural successor to the pig-fucker. Should we tell them?

    106. K1 says:

      I suppose the ‘big distraction’ it provides to ‘readers and viewers’ in Scotland is specifically to take the Tory party conference off the top spot in Scotland.

      They do know that Tory policies in Scotland really don’t go down well by a staggering majority and by dumbing down the ‘news’ to this degree whilst aiming their guns at the SNP they form a kind of propaganda ‘pincer’ movement.

      Take the ‘real’ culprits off the air and replace with ‘phoney’ culprits…’they’re all as bad as each other’. Feed low level disinformation to ‘drown out’ the true extent of how far the Tories are going to go in quite literally destroying the foundation of our ‘society’.

      If the Tory conference had been reported on this week in Scotland in the manner of informing citizens of what their government’s plans are, I believe that even No voters would be reconsidering their positions regarding Scotland’s place in this union. Recall it took more than the 45% to get the May result.

      So bombard Scotland with pish whilst the real horror takes place in Manchester. They are doing this to ‘keep’ the ‘low information’ No voters on board.

    107. Robert graham says:

      The ukok second front started after the coronation of man of peace Corbyn , we all have learned his views on the SNP , same as SLAB with bells on, all live interviews with the SNP should be hijacked and used to highlight the lies the media are promoting on behalf of SLAB don’t answer their questions, just keep interrupting as they do constantly, the SNP have nothing to loose doing this as all the media are SNP bad they will never give the SNP a fair shake so f/ them

    108. mike cassidy says:

      Keep in mind, people, that in a war it is always useful to know as much as possible about your enemy.

      Or to put it another way, we can’t expect the rev to do all the sewer crawling for us.

    109. john king says:

      Steve says
      “The venue is also council owned, so it would be a financial transaction between the Scottish Government/Scottish Enterprise and Aberdeen City Council.”

      I think it would be just peachy if Alex Salmond cut the ribbon dont you?

    110. David McDowell says:

      If you want to stick two fingers up to the media propagandists just another £600 is needed to help the campaign to oust Carmichael to hit £100,000.
      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael/x/10935118#/story

    111. Lesley-Anne says:

      DON’T PANIC!

      We have been saved from our wretched selves folks.

      No honest it is TRUE!

      It must be true cause wee Ruthie told me it was so. Well she didn’t exactly tell me personally you understand. 😉

      Wee Ruthie has a master plan to save the union, no honestly she does. Next May she wants all Labour and Lib Dem voters to … erm … vote … erm TORY! 😀

      http://www.thenational.scot/politics/ruth-davidson-to-urge-labour-and-libdem-supporters-to-vote-tory-next-year.8467

      We’re doomed … all doomed! 😀

    112. Arabs for Independence says:

      I hope John McNally MP is not cutting hair any longer

    113. K1 says:

      So, will anyone who ‘knowingly’ votes Conservative next year who has formally/informally twittered/facebooked/declared in any way shape or form allegiance to the Labour party be excommunicated if they vote Tory in 2016 elections? Ruth’s cunning plan to help us wipe Labour from Scotland…excellent.

      ‘Cause it’s a well kent fact that shy tories are renowned for hiding in the wilderness of the North country.

    114. Cadogan Enright says:

      The National seems to be getting better every day.

      I look forward to my daily coffee routine – I got to read yesterday’s as well as I had been working in Belfast till late yesterday

      Such a great tonic

      I suspect that from reading many of the articles, the Rev willingly or not, has been co-opted onto their editorial team, or they must have Wingers working for them

      KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK IF YOU ARE READING THIS

    115. Hamish100 says:

      Did Magnus Gardham jump from the DR or was he pushed due to the falling sales. He reminds me of Prof what’s his name from pro union Glesga Uni, po faced, unhappy at being a Brit nat and nobody is listening to his constant drivel and anti snp vitriol.

      I have to say he is consistent. So am I. I stopped reading the record and I have stopped reading the Herald.

      Maybe wings in cooperation with other pro Indy news sites could do a who’s who of the Scottish press ( North of the powerhouse North?). Should be interesting. Who is this torquil guy!?

    116. K1 says:

      Arabs…that’s a bit cutting.

      (coat oan)

    117. dakk says:

      ‘you become increasingly tolerant of those who waste your remaining time on earth’

      Indeed,and as I have been dealing with bereavement,and the funeral of a loved one yesterday, I will always be eternally grateful to Wings for saving me time in trying to avail myself of arguments for exploding all the unionist lies and myths.

      I can assure Rev Stuart and Wings team,their time spent slaying unionist propaganda in all it’s guises is not wasted.

      Martyrs one and all 🙂

    118. Giving Goose says:

      Would you wear Union Jack undercrackers?

      No, you wouldn’t.

      And just as you wouldn’t allow the UJ anywhere near a good, clean Scottish BumHole, you’re hardly going to be wiping said orifice with a dirty rag like the Scotsman or Herald. I wouldn’t wipe the dog’s arse with the Herald and Gardham’s not worthy of being covered in my dog’s shit.

      So send Gardham and co a message.

      Don’t wipe the dog’s arse with the Herald, cause the dog’s arse is more deserving.

    119. Les Wilson says:

      David McDowell says:
      You are right David, a huge SNP vote would nullify all their rubbish.

    120. Macandroid says:

      OK how about checking out who the advertisers are using these papers (not newspapers BTW) and writing to them to say why we will not buy their products if they continue, and that they could always advertise in the National instead ?

      Que SNP witch hunt reported in same papers probably but it’s about time to hit them hard I think.

    121. Ronbon says:

      No one should be fooled this is all about divide and conquer.

      The Unionist and msm want SNP supporters to react to the misleading info and blatant lies as part of their strategy to prevent a majority SNP government and second indy ref.

      It serves their purpose and would delight them if angry SNP supporters abused correspondents and unionist supporters on social media so they can run with their cybernat stories.

      Can just see the headline, vile cybernats send abusive messages to the family who claim they were duped into selling their house for cut down price.

      SP doing the right thing saying nothing. Stay calm and it’ll all fade away.

    122. Paula Rose says:

      The Ukokist twitterati are convinced the nice decor story is an attempt by the Herald to distract people from the MT scandal – I kid you not!

    123. Marcia says:

      Arabs for Independence

      Ah but what fringe benefits is he getting? 🙂

    124. Thomas William Dunlop says:

      Unionist & their MSM tribunes everywhere ” I See smoke, must be fire (nudge, nudge, wink, wink. SNP bad”

      -Everybody else “Thats no smoke. that steam coming off the big pile of shite you’ve just dumped. Now go wipe your arse and wash your breeks”

    125. Nana Smith says:

      Aye lets distract the plebs while this is happening…

      Real establishment cover-up being revealed at Old Bailey: Judges, MPs, royals tried to stop 1993 prosecution of Bishop Ball for sex offences

      filthy b——-

    126. Giesabrek says:

      I happen to know on a personal level a Labour MSP who shall remain nameless. This Labour MSP an ongoing business that continues to run while they are an MSP (as any normal person would expect since I wouldn’t expect it to be shut down, making others unemployed just for the sake of entering politics).

      Furthermore, they have a small property empire too although I could only guess it’s not in the millions, but does include at least one property in another country.

      Will we now be expecting all Labour politicians to divest of any businesses and property now that the SNP are being criticised for doing the same?

    127. Lesley-Anne says:

      @Arabs for Independence

      Well one thing is certain … he is a cut above the rest! 😀

    128. cearc says:

      Arabs…

      He may even be cutting it shorter!

      Bet he finds out more about events in his constituency in his barber’s shop than anywhere else.

    129. Lesley-Anne says:

      Here’s a link to the story in the Guardian Nana. 😉

      https://archive.is/rbdaW#selection-1660.1-1660.16

      Isn’t it wonderful. Yet another excellent example of the elite class rallying around to *ahem* protect one of their own and to hell with the victims!

    130. TD says:

      The important question about all this is “Will the Scottish electorate be taken in by all the faux outrage?” I suspect some will – my Daily Mail reading neighbour has already informed me that “one of your MPs has been done for corruption”. When I point out that this is absolutely not the case, he retorts “Where there’s smoke there’s fire”. He doesn’t want to know that there does not even appear to be any smoke.

      We may, however, be reaching a tipping point where ordinary fair-minded people are so scunnered with the antics of the media and unionist politicians that the level of revulsion leads to voters flocking in even greater numbers to the SNP. Disempowerment of our corrupt media (i.e. when people do not take their lead from the media and go the opposite way instead) would be a major success for the independence movement. Ms Thomson may find that she has contributed to the cause in a more profound way than she could ever have imagined.

    131. Gill says:

      Project fear continued – or as it sounds now, project petty and vindictive – They must be bottling it about another indyref

    132. heedtracker says:

      Toryboy Toby Young, last seen on tv explaining why sex with decapitated pigs heads was all just a bit of a lark or something-

      “On Tuesday, as I made my way through the streets of Manchester to the central convention complex, I came up with a brainwave. Instead of just walking through the police barriers as quickly as possible, eyes glued to the ground, I would stop and try and convince one of the protestors to have lunch with me.

      My plan was to persuade them that I wasn’t an evil scumbag, determined to privatise the NHS, demonise people on benefits and enrich the 1 per cent, but someone who shared many of the same values as them.

      I wanted to show them that it was possible to be a Tory and, at the same time, care about the poor and the dispossessed. If I could get this person to understand that we’re motivated by much the same things, but simply disagree about how best to achieve them, perhaps they’d stop referring to all Conservatives as ‘scum’. It would be a small victory in an otherwise unsettling few days.”

      http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ten-thousand-benefit-claimants-declared-6333859

      Near 10,000 of the most vulnerable among us gone, with the rise and rise of the caring blue toryboys. St Thatcher must be laughing like a drain in hell. But if you’re a toryboy 10,000 dead benefit scroungers means 10,000 less freeloaders, and that’s what its all about.

      If you google that mirror story, nothing comes up anywhere BBC online news, in their Scotland region, its the SNP they’re really after.

    133. yesindyref2 says:

      That’d be funny if the Herald’s circulation figure dropped to 1, and that was the Rev getting it to make mince of it.

    134. ArtyHetty says:

      Just read some of the comments so far, and we are all aware of the propaganda being stepped up, but why now? Well, chances are it is due to the tory near fascist speak, being played down. With the SNP being used as a distraction and scapegoat. It is also an attempt to further brainwash the masses down south and some north of the border. It will be being seen as gospel by the idiots that believe the corporate media lies.

      Thankfully plenty of people in Scotland have become immune to the corporate media lies, and they are not switching off either. We are armed and ready, it is only a wee while since we were subjected to the hate filled crap coming from the establishment, our resolve is still strong.

      Alert, my son just told me that they have found explosives on the Forth Road bridge!

    135. Nana Smith says:

      Thanks Lesley Anne I can no longer bring myself to go look at the guardian, herald or Scotsman.

      Can not say on a public forum what I think of these establishment scum.

    136. heedtracker says:

      Still monstering Thompson and looks like hammer of the Scots JK Rowling’s about to make another important UKOK intervention/ free advertising for her garbage/ can never take enough money from kids,

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34466008

    137. peekay says:

      Giving Goose says:

      “I wouldn’t wipe the dog’s arse with the Herald and Gardham’s not worthy of being covered in my dog’s shit.
      Don’t wipe the dog’s arse with the Herald, cause the dog’s arse is more deserving.”

      I never knew wiping dogs arses was even a ‘thing’…….with a Herald or otherwise. Not too sure I’ll be doing it any time soon but “Do as you do, Boo-Boo” as they say

    138. mealer says:

      MSM.Pathetic.They’ve got nothing good to say about anything or anyone.Certainly nothing positive about Scotland.Their readership is dwindling away.Little wonder.Scotland doesn’t need them.We’re moving on with out them.

    139. liz says:

      Think there is going to be some traffic ‘chaos’ this evening in Central Scotland.

      Scot Rail trains, loads cancelled due to ‘cable theft’ and Forth Bridge plus all approaches closed for at least 2 hours during rush hour.

      So tomorrow’s headline anyone……….

    140. ArtyHetty says:

      Thanks Nana Smith, just read a bit more on fb.

      O/T

      Porky has just announced more nuke subs on order. Feeling so much safer now, thanks no voters.

    141. Lesley-Anne says:

      Nana Smith says:
      7 October, 2015 at 4:18 pm

      Thanks Lesley Anne I can no longer bring myself to go look at the guardian, herald or Scotsman.

      Can not say on a public forum what I think of these establishment scum.

      I wouldn’t worry too much about saying how you feel about the comic strips a.k.a. “serious” newspapers Nana I think we all, or at least most of us, feel the same. 😉

      As for the Paedophile Protection Group (P.P.G.) well what can I say other than we all feel your pain in being unable to put down your true feelings Nana. 😀

    142. Luigi says:

      Teresa May has just made none of the most vindictive, nasty, xenophobic speeches ever heard at a toy conference (and that is quite something), and yet, all BBC Labour seem to be concerned about are a few pathetic red herring stories about how bad the SNP are.

      I can understand the tory press needing a spoiler, but Labour? Whose side are they on?

      It’s a funny world. 🙁

    143. Bob Mack says:

      Tomorrows headline.

      Separatist explosive cache found !

    144. Luigi says:

      liz says:

      7 October, 2015 at 4:26 pm

      So tomorrow’s headline anyone……….

      SNP cause traffic chaos. Transport minister must resign.

    145. Training Day says:

      @liz

      Thomson ‘link’ to traffic mayhem..

    146. Lesley-Anne says:

      As everyone will recall there were calls, later described as a joke … allegedly, by the Tax Payers Alliance at a fringe meeting in the Tory conference for the Tories to cut benefits to Pensioners now.

      https://www.rt.com/uk/317693-taxpayers-alliance-pension-cuts/

      Now we all know that one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, gripes everyone has with the Tories over tax is their lack of action over tax avoidance. I believe there is somerwhere in the region of £120 Billion in uncollected, unpaid tax. Well my fellow Wingers, remember the Tax Payers Alliance I mentioned above?

      Guess what folks?

      One of the directors of the T.P.A. does NOT pay any tax in the U.K.!!!

      The Taxpayers’ Alliance, a campaign group that calls for tax and spending cuts and claims to represent the interests of taxpayers, has admitted one of its directors does not pay British tax.

      https://archive.is/U38uv#selection-1703.0-1703.79

      Don’t we all just love how the other half live eh? 😀

    147. yesindyref2 says:

      @liz
      SNP Government false economy uses rail cable to mend ailing Forth Bridge

      25 million S**** were left stranded in Central S******* and Fife today, as the SNP admitted it had used the electric cable from the rail network all over S******* to repair the suspension cables holding up the Forth Bridge. John McBitter explained that the SNP had let down S******* since they came into power in 1991, and had caused the bank crash by buying up London mansions for maliciious purposes.

      The traffic chaos is expected to cost the UK Treasury £33.2 billion, in extra handouts for the welfare scrounging subsidy junkies in North Britain.

      Note for editors: Jockland is a one-party fascist state.

    148. William Beedie says:

      Ian Blackfords wife does most of the work on the croft, Ian himself does constituency work when not on Westmister duty, Crapham is picking at the bones now with this story, its just SNPBAD from the UNIONIST media, but it will back fire on them yet as those who actually vote for them see the work they do, most have facebook pages (Ian certainly does) which shows what they are upto, the cabal need to get their heads out of the clouds and give it up as a lost cause

    149. manandboy says:

      The State propaganda has decided to influence the Holyrood elections by smearing the SNP. Were there nothing whatsoever to find fault with and flood the media with it, the people running No 10’s smear unit would have invented a whole series of stories to serve their malicious purposes. It’s not MT’s fault any more than Memogate was Nicola’s fault. And btw, that was Nicola’s mistake when confronted by the media about MT – she failed to recognise there was no difference between the two media attacks.

      Keep in mind, no Unionist media outlet is acting independently. They are all taking daily instructions from the Prime Minister’s Office. Magnus Gardham, editor of the Herald, is merely obeying orders from Union HQ in Downing St.

      But these are the panicking actions of a desperate Establishment who can’t shake off the smell of fear in their nostrils. That fear increases every day as the see the once invincible power of State propaganda diminish almost by the hour.

      And after propaganda, all they have left is the military, but at that stage all will be truly lost for the Establishment.

    150. Robert Peffers says:

      @Doug Daniel says: 7 October, 2015 at 12:22 pm:

      ” … The only conclusion I can come to from all this is that nobody in the Scottish media has ever heard the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.”

      Well, Doug, that little story about, “The Boy who cried wolf”, is just a press distortion of the real truth.

      As it happens I do know the true story.

      I got it from a neutral by-standers at the scene.

      “One day when the boy felt like having a laugh so he ran towards the village crying, “Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!” \|/
      \|/




      and a Grizzly Bear killed him and ate him.

    151. liz says:

      HaHa Thanks wingers, I knew you wouldn’t let me down. 🙂

    152. gordoz says:

      O/T Apologies –

      If any body else is fed up paying for the BBC Blighty found this

      ‘Watch TV without a license’ –

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/11743733/Video.html

      Can anyone confirm – does this suffice for Scots law also ?
      Is it this simple ?

    153. yesindyref2 says:

      Herald Thu Oct 8, 00.24 am “ANGUS ROBERTSON seen smiling at MICHELLE THOMSON”

      Angus Robertson, leader of the SNP rabble at Westminster smiled at Michelle Thomson as she entered the hallowed chambers at Westminster on June 21st this year. There were allegations that she had a dating website. Your investigative reporter was eating a bowl of jellied eels and saw them together only 25 feet apart.

      Good grief I’ve run out of absurdity, I’ll need to top up by looking at the Herald.

    154. Molly says:

      Manandboy

      Actually some of these reporters should stick to the ‘ a cat stuck up a tree’ stories. They just come across as big fearties.

      Tackle the big boys ?

      Question Westminster?

      Maybe they’re scared they’ll get a showing up, if ‘ proper’ journalists challenge ‘ their information’ . It didn’t seem to bother them , in the last few weeks of the Referendum, when they allowed themselves to be reduced to , the supporting cast.

      At least with the likes of Iain Mcwhirter or Ian Bell, you might not always agree with them but they are outward looking and encourage intelligent debate.

      Why should we pay for a paper handout of Westminster PR, calling itself The Herald or The Daily Record,when we have the BBC already churning it out ?

    155. Craig P says:

      muttley79 says:

      Incidentally, while the corporate media in Scotland are whipping themselves up into a frenzy over the Thompson story, I wonder if they will mention this story on the Guardian website:

      http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/07/bishop-peter-ball-escaped-charges-mps-royal-family-intervened-court

      I saw a letter in Viz magazine that said ‘Operation Yewtree detectives: simplify your investigations by arresting anyone from a 1970s Radio Times’.

      It seems that ‘a 1970s Radio Times’ could be replaced with ‘a friend of Prince Charles’ and the joke would still work.

    156. Betty Boop says:

      @ Clydebuilt, 1:33pm

      One thing I don’t get is, what is the attraction for journalilsts to come up here to work in a failing sector of their industry.

      Low house prices perhaps?

      Maybe they’ve sold houses at huge profit somewhere south of the border or simply profited from the lower prices here… Just a thought given the current furore.

      Or, maybe they just don’t cut the mustard elsewhere… Given the tosh printed elsewhere in the UK, though, we should despair for the “profession” anyway.

    157. Craig P says:

      Clydebuilt says:

      The Herald is Magnus Gardham’s plaything. With a little help from his apprentice Daniel Sanderson. Out a sizeable staff of political journalists only one hails from Scotland, Robin Dinwoodie, not that should matter, just an observation. One thing I don’t get is, what is the attraction for journalilsts to come up here to work in a failing sector of their industry.

      Perhaps the glory of serving the UK state in its propaganda wars is sufficient draw?

    158. Robert Peffers says:

      @Auld Rock says: 7 October, 2015 at 12:35 pm:

      “Those who choose to sow the wind will quickly find themselves reaping a whirlwind”.
      Adapted from Arthur ‘Bomber’Harris.

      Mibbies Harris plagerised work of fiction – The Bible!

    159. Kevin Evans says:

      Shite, shite and more shite.

    160. Lesley-Anne says:

      Forth Road Bridge is now back open but heavy traffic both ways folks.

    161. Betty Boop says:

      With regard to Ivan McKee, one of the thoughts which occurred to me when the papers started their rabid witterings about Michelle Thomson was that, along with the SNP in general, the next target might be Ivan in consideration of next year’s SG elections.

      I think corpmedia and Westminster are too used to run of the mill career politicians, they fear so many with hands on business backgrounds.

      @ morag Towndrow, 12:58pm

      Terrible piece of drivel. And yet a couple of pages/ a few feet of office space away there is the great Ian Bell! Very very odd

      That is one of the few reasons I regret no longer being able to tolerate The Herald; Ian Bell, still trying to inject some integrity into that publication.

    162. Graham says:

      If the gutter press want mp scandal they could have a look at the list of MP’s and peers who have connections with private healthcare companies and despite the obvious conflict of interest make statements and speeches congratulating the government for privatising the NHS and then vote on the legislation.

    163. Proud Cybernat says:

      “(It’s difficult to assert that someone will get a fair trial when the country’s best-selling Sunday newspaper has already run a massive front-page splash with a picture of her face and a headline screaming “HOW CAN YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT?”)”

      Perhaps that’s the plan, Stu. If charges are never brought because it is deemed MT could never get a fair trial (after such biased Corporate Media headlines) then this mud will surely stick as MT will never have the opportunity to clear her name before a jury of her peers.

      The Corporate Media would probably much prefer that there is never any official charges brought forward against MT. That way they can continue with their inuendo and MT will never again be able to return to the SNP and to her business portfolio.

      There is (ill) method in their UKOK madness.

    164. mike cassidy says:

      SNP fail to destroy Forth Rail Bridge!

    165. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, comparison of just any news, about the bridge and explosives.

      Herald: “The road is due to close from 4.45pm until 6pm for at least two hours. “

      Record: “The M90 and the Forth Road Bridge were due to be closed for at least two hours from 4pm, but police later announced that it would take place after 6pm.”

      BBC Scotland: “The Forth road and rail bridges have reopened after being briefly closed while a controlled explosion was carried out in the area.
      The closure happened shortly before 17:00 after demolition materials were found at the site of the new Queensferry Crossing.
      The bridges reopened about 20 minutes later.”

      I wonder what happened / is actually happening?

    166. Seamus says:

      I thought the Herald came out (Last minute right enough)and supported Independence.
      Could do without “support” like that.

    167. Robert Peffers says:

      @gordonbrownstuff says: 7 October, 2015 at 1:06 pm:

      ” … the hysteria and panic from them is becoming loud and incoherent and ever more pathetic with each passing day.”

      This present unionist behaviour reminds me of what my old Granny described as, “The Spielt Wean Syndrome”, and mirrored that character described by Richmal Crompton in the series of books begun by the story of, “Just William”.

      The described behaviour was ascribed to the character, “Violet Elizabeth Bott”, who, in her selfish Spoiled Child strops, was wont to scream, rather hysterically, “I’ll sweam and I’ll sweam until I make mythelf thick”.

      Such tactics usually result in the, “Sweamer”, Sweaming ever louder if ignored until such times as they did in fact throw up.

      There is only one sure cure for this strange syndrome – totally ignore the spoiled little buggers, (this may require ear plugs and very firm determination).

    168. marga says:

      OT, (very) again, just to comment on Catalonia (anyone else got views?), specifically on Alex Salmond’s recent interview on Catalan TV, when he told the Catalans to “Keep Calm and Carry On”, that they have no remit to declar independence, but must negotiate a legal referendum with Spain, that it took Scotland 60 years to get theirs, and that we must get European support.

      I’ve always been a Salmond-ite, never been on the receiving end of Salmond-ism, but he has certainly raised hackles in Catalonia including mine. Suddenly his much-mentioned qualities of shallowness, arrogance, ignorance, condescension, etc. etc. float to the surface. Not to mention Nicola’s offer to be middle-man in any hypothetical negotiations, which I haven’t really quantified.

      The idea that his equivalent, Artur Mas, is to be questioned in court about running a popular consultation, on the 75th anniversary of the execution by firing squad of the last pre-civil war president of Catalonia, never mentioned by the state, and is facing charges including imprisonment does not seem to give him a clue that Catalonia really does not have the same choices as Scotland.

      Sometimes it helps to see things from another perspective to really feel what your opponents are up against.

    169. Jim Thomson says:

      @Proud Cybernat 5:40pm

      Just a thought, suppose MT has to resort to a civil case for defamation, against the media and, let’s assume she wins, would that be classed as secondary income?

      Poor woman can’t win.

    170. gardennat says:

      This constant barrage from the gutter press(that’s all of them by the way) is very wearing and begins to affect your morale.However, every time I get down about things I just focus on the fact that the SNP is continuing to win elections, and in my local SNP shop we are still signing up new members.
      It all seems to be having no effect.Possibly because the folk who are buying these papers are the folk who don’t vote SNP anyway.

    171. yesindyref2 says:

      I never listen now to the garbage rugby commentators in their little box but I expect they were talking about the eyes of the world being on the England match coming soon against some foreign team, to see if England could regain its world cup winning form. Over the the England dressing room, oh there’s nobody there, never mind we’ll just talk aout them anyway. Meanwhile in other rugby news there are some other foreign teams playing each other in some minor matches but really wishing they were playing England. Now about Cole …

      I need to get a life and go back to watching the rugby, it’s kind of important to S*******’s chances.

    172. Ruby says:

      It would be very interesting to know how much revenue online newspaper generate from advertising and if that is increased by the number of visitors to their site. Looking at the number of comments articles on the Scotsman and Herald get when they print an ‘SNP Bad’ stories then I would say ‘SNP Bad’ is the way to generate revenue if the more comments = more money. The more outrageous the article the better!

      The article about John Nicolson currently has 279 comments whereas the article about Kezia has 2 comments. I’ve noticed this pattern regularly on ‘The Scotsman’ SNP Bad stories get 1000 comments any story about Unionist parties are lucky if they get 10 comments. Although it would seem The Herald have managed to attract the Scotsman’s regulars so ‘SNP Bad stories on The Scotsman might have fewer comments in future.

      I would imagine if generating online advertising revenue is important to Herald then they have probably analysed what was happening on The Scotsman and decided to follow suit.

      I have noticed that posts by SNP/Yes Supporters on the Herald & Scotsman serve only to stimulate further Unionist posts mostly of the snide variety.

      I would agree not posting on The Scotsman or Herald is a very good idea. What is the point of posting on ‘The Herald’ or ‘The Scotsman’?

      Why are there so few comments on The National?

    173. Lesley-Anne says:

      Is it true that wee Davy Hambone sometimes goes under the pseudonym Joseph Gallacher? 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZtJG7NFQZs

    174. Dr Jim says:

      @Bob Mack

      Naw they didnae find onythin it’s a well guarded and in different locations

      The Tanks are much harder tae hide but we manage
      although there’s been an increase in sales o beans in the highlands since trainin stertit

    175. mike cassidy says:

      For those on this thread needing to lower their blood pressure after contracting msmitis

      http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/ruth-davidson-ignoring-people.html

      There is surely a fizzy-ruth poster to be made out of that by those with the relevant IT skills.

    176. Marie Clark says:

      I’ve been watching all this pathetic hysterical nonsense for what seems like forever. It is getting a bit wearing, and I keep asking what are they trying to deflect us from. Many answers to that question I fear.

      I too know quite a few folk who have totally blanked out the whole shitstorm. I know it goes right over my head, I just don’t listen any more.

      As for The Herald, I stopped buying it about a year ago after buying it every day for years. I can tell you why I stopped in two words. Magnus Gardham.

      I’m surprised some folk on here still buy it. The best way to hit all of the corporate media is just keep your pennies in your pocket. Leave their crappy comics on the shelf. The sooner they all disappear the better.

    177. Rock says:

      Nation Libre,

      “I have to say, and this may well not be popular, but from day one I was sceptical about promoting the Sunday Herald and later The National. Regardless of people telling us how independent they are from the daily Herald, it’s still the same company. Funding one is merely keeping the other afloat”

      Some of us are less gullible than others.

      The Rev. Stuart Campbell should send this article to The National and dare them to publish it.

    178. ronnie anderson says:

      S N P Baaad .Snp spokeperson announced today the Snp Goverment will remove the extra Rivets on the Forth Rail Bridge there,s just to many Rivets rivets rivets.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t35T1Er8AGc

      Is that the sound of the British Meeja ah hear.

    179. velofello says:

      Enjoying your comments folks, but don’t drop your guard or resolve.

      Herald journalists from “South Britain” incentivised perhaps, and by whom?

      And the evil Tories continue to buzz in their Manchester nest, consider:-

      Retirement at 66, or is it 67? By about 60 yrs of age, either by physical manual work, or mental concentration effort, most of you will have diminished performance. Through seniority lets say a 60 year old earns 30K pa. A colleague,aged say 40 yrs, more energetic and mentally alert, equally well qualified academically earns 25K. Do you really think your employer is going to keep you on ’till your 66/67yrs old at a 5K pa extra cost? Note comments on Corbyn being too old to be PM. Plan for early retirement folks.

      The flaw in this scenario is that the 60yrs old have loads of experience, lost with early retirement. Solution would be part-time semi-retirement. reduced hours – for grand weans support, and the allotment, reduced earnings as your mortgage is paid off. The UK establishment is too unimaginative to run with such a strategy.

      Retirement? Best job I ever had, but then I planned for it. i’m not being smug, just offering comment on what is in store without independent social decision- making available to Scotland. Independence is an essential.

    180. Rock says:

      Maybe W O S can start publishing articles detailing the business interests and fortunes of the unionist MPs, one MP at a time.

      Let us beat them at their own game.

    181. john king says:

      o/t
      I sat in my employers restaurant watching TV when Sky news showed (in graphic detail) the family of the PC run down and killed visiting the scene of his death, and sat in stunned silence as I watched the sky news cameras home in with a ruthless lack of compassion on a small child weeping for her lost daddy,
      it was a toe curling display by a sensationalist soulless media,
      I turned away feeling like a voyeur peering in on the grief of a young family’s devastating loss,

      I felt unclean!
      GOD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL.

    182. Fireproofjim says:

      Rock @6.10
      So the 20,000 independence supporters who buy the National every day are “gullible” according to you. Let’s destroy the only Independence supporting paper!
      Let’s shoot ourselves in the foot while we are at it.

    183. peter says:

      I dont want us to sink to their level,but I really hope we are just keeping our powder dry to really get it right up them in the not too distant future.
      There must be lots of skeletons in lots of cupboards just waiting to come out and when they do it must be pursued relentlessly.

    184. Iain More says:

      Tomorrows shocker of a headline. Scot Nat’s still buying Britain First Dead Wood papers. I gave them all up years ago. Just like I gave up paying the Britannia First TV Tax.

      The

    185. liz says:

      They get away with so much crap.

      Insult, demean and ignore.

      The latest, of course, being that the conference season is now ‘over’ and parliament will return to work next week.

    186. Rock says:

      Fireproofjim,

      ” So the 20,000 independence supporters who buy the National every day are “gullible” according to you. Let’s destroy the only Independence supporting paper!”

      How many of those 20,000 started supporting independence because of The National?

      How many of those 20,000 will stop supporting independence if The National stops publishing?

      The National generates cash from the gullible like yourself, which it uses to keep the venomous Herald alive.

      The National makes you feel good at your expense – it does not advance the independence cause one bit.

      Why don’t you send this WOS article to The National and dare it to publish it if it is “independent” of The Herald?

    187. Tony Little says:

      OT. Speaking of the Herald. There has been no article by Ian Bell since 30 August. Anyone know why?

    188. Naina Tal says:

      Fireproof jim
      Agree with you. Always been the Scots way. Don’t need the E*****h to divide and rule. We’ve always been pretty good at dividing ourselves. Without external interference.
      The only title that consistently prints our side of the story, yet some want to shoot it down in flames on some trumped up pretext.

      Everyone of an independence persuasion should be buying it and ensure as many as possible get the chance to read your copy.

    189. gerry parker says:

      @ Rock,
      Taranaich was doing something like this on his blog, he may still be.

      https://wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com/

    190. Ken500 says:

      Westminster only work 133 days a year. What farce. The sooner Scotland votes for Independence and ends this useless farce, the better. A total waste of Scottish money. Scotland could govern itself better from Holyrood, quite easily.

    191. otherdemons says:

      @K1
      Absolutely, the lack of coverage of the Tory conference by Scottish papers other than the National is staggering.

      One thing I thought most telling this week was that while the Mirror was justifiably outraged on its front page about Jeremy Hunt ‘have people work like the Chinese’ comment, the DR was leading about a story about a Scot who got attacked in Ibiza. No political content on its front page whatsoever.

      Really bizarre stuff from the Herald today indeed. I dread to think what the papers will be like in April next year.

    192. Nation Libre says:

      Fireproofjim

      I wouldn’t have used the word gullible but why fund one division of a company when it’s sister company is using every smear trick in the book against you?

      Would you fund the SNP if they gave half there income to the Labour Party?

      I’ll give my money (such as it is) to truly independent minded publications, WoS, iScot, etc, etc. I have just recently had the opportunity to advise the BBC licensing board that I will not be funding their state propaganda, I’m not going to assist in someone else’s

      20,000 (your figures) at 50p a time is taking £10k DAILY from out and out pro independence causes. What could The Rev do with that kind of funding?

    193. Ken500 says:

      ‘Planet Oil’ BBC 4 – 9pm

    194. Dr Jim says:

      Well how wrong was I Misreporting Scotland was positively civilised to Shona Robison

      I’ve never seen the like, in fact it’s left me quite mystified, I’ll need a sit down

    195. Dan Huil says:

      The unionist media in Scotland, especially the “newspapers”, is getting more and more hysterical with every passing day. It’s a sign of weakness and fear on their part.

    196. Colin Church says:

      @Dr Jim

      Simples. Minimise and avoid coverage of the barking Rule Britania, giant butchers apron draped, Corbyn bashing, Scotland ignoring Toryfest for Manchester at any cost by BBC Scotland Labour. Where was the Brian Taylor analysis of the benefits of a rabid Tory government ruling Scotland and us being better together.

    197. gillie says:

      “Crisis” meeting at the Herald.

    198. john king says:

      First we have Lesley-Anne and her
      Oh dear, how sad, never mind,
      Then we have Macart with his Basil Faulty beating his car to death, then we get Ronnie and his ( I have to say it) hilarious rivet rivet rivet

      my work here is done!
      Im going now,…sniff
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDeystedXJw

    199. Colin Church says:

      BBC Editor

      Jeez how can we minimise coverage of the Tory conference cos that will really piss them off in Scotland.

      Let’s GO LIVE to NHS special that will take loads of airtime.

      Brilliant! SQUIRREL!

    200. Rock says:

      gerry parker,

      “Taranaich was doing something like this on his blog, he may still be.”

      The widely read WOS would spread the information much further.

    201. CameronB Brodie says:

      SNP fail to destroy Forth Rail Bridge!

      I’m getting sick fed up with this softly, softly approach. When will the gloves come off?

    202. john king says:

      Arabs for Independence says:

      I hope John McNally MP is not cutting hair any longer

      Naw, the speaker’d have a fit
      mind you the last time I saw Tarzan…

    203. Iain More says:

      I gather somebody tried to steal some more copper wire from Network Rail or was it Scot Rail, I am not sure which. Did Disporting Jackie try and weave an SNP Bad story out of it?

    204. Nana Smith says:

      @John King

      Get back here, you are going nowhere young man.

    205. Jim Lynch says:

      New name, media and Unionist politicians.

      Try Muppets.

    206. Rock says:

      Nation Libre,

      “20,000 (your figures) at 50p a time is taking £10k DAILY from out and out pro independence causes.”

      Hand over £10,000 daily to The Herald and then complain about its anti-SNP, anti-independence venom!

      You wouldn’t have used the word “gullible” but that is exactly what those who sing the praises of The National are!

    207. Harry McAye says:

      Rock – you or I have no way of knowing the demographics of the National sales but having it on the newsstand is surely a huge plus.

      Take today, you could plump for the human interest angle that the Record regularly takes, usually a depressing story like today or a showbiz angle for the brain dead that The Sun usually plump for or fund pornographers and buy The Express or fund batshit mental far right loons and buy The Daily Mail etc etc or maybe you see a front page like todays National, and it pricks your interest and you think, well, maybe here is newspaper that treats it’s readers like thinking adults and deals with issues that actually matter to me. We need it and should support it.

      I am not averse to sending them critical letters or e-mails if I feel they have got something wrong – their stance on Neil Hay was deplorable and did not differ from the others – but mistakes like that are few and far between, though their sports coverage is still pretty dreadful.

    208. annie says:

      Trying to rationalize these stories but it is impossible, however took great satisfaction in cancelling Herald subscription half hour ago.

    209. Lesley-Anne says:

      You are lucky JK that it was my “Oh dear … how sad … never mind” clip that you are referring to. It could have been worse … or better … take your pick! 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRK03q76GKU&feature=youtu.be

    210. Tam Jardine says:

      K1

      “I suppose the ‘big distraction’ it provides to ‘readers and viewers’ in Scotland is specifically to take the Tory party conference off the top spot in Scotland.”

      Exactly. The Desire of the tories to lock us all into a Chinese style economy of low wages, reduced freedoms, recriminations for the disabled, unemployed and a future of reduced support for the elderly has been relegated to a side issue.

      I am astonished to read so many folk having bought their last copy of the herald. Why in God’s name have you been propping it up for the last few years?

      Without support from Wingers, SNP voters and the wider yes community the herald would fold or be forced to change.

      I can’t read the gardham piece when I click on it so stupidly click on the link instead like an arse only to hit the paywall and give the herald a wee boost for its advertising revenues. Unbelievable.

      The problem here is that after years of this we still consider this to be journalism, worthy of critique. I don’t go and seek a slab or Tory activist and thrust £1.40 into their hands for a leaflet, so why are so many of us doing so?

      It’s not the unionists who are propping up the herald and the record and the scotsman. Without pro indy support these newspapers die.

      I wring my hands and gnash my teeth at pro indy journalists still working for them.

      No more angst. No more ‘if they don’t change…’ No more interviews or engagement.

      Some say MSM, some say corpmedia. I like media corpse – let’s make it so.

      As for the article in question, are any of us surprised? Perhaps at how vacuous, spiteful and partisan a journalist can be? I wouldn’t be surprised if gardham started commenting on the messages SNP MPs get in their weekly shop. What a complete bawbag.

      Why are the media behaving like this? Because the ruling monobloc party has an effective way of punting it’s message and the referendum proved it was effective and it enables them to dictate the field of battle.

      Wake the fuck up or we’ll be ‘reading SNP councillor/MSP/MP in (insert innocuous subject matter) controversy’ forever.

    211. Nana Smith says:

      Just spotted on twitter, anyone heard about this

      South Lanarkshire Council Lab election agent suspended over £200,000 temporary contract fraud. Not reported by BBC or STV

    212. Robert Peffers says:

      @Marcia says: 7 October, 2015 at 3:49 pm:

      ” … Ah but what fringe benefits is he getting? “

      Ach! Kin wi no cut this hair thing short?

    213. Rock says:

      Harry McAye,

      “or maybe you see a front page like todays National, and it pricks your interest and you think, well, maybe here is newspaper that treats it’s readers like thinking adults and deals with issues that actually matter to me. We need it and should support it.”

      It certainly hasn’t pricked the interest of more than the 20,000 buyers who were already supporting independence and would support independence without The National existing.

      My prediction is as soon as another independence referendum is called, The National will make its excuses and close.

      An independent Scotland is the last thing the publishers of The National and The Sunday Herald want.

      Why don’t you gullible lot challenge The National to start publishing WOS articles, starting with this one?

      Maybe one day you will realise that The National was milking the already converted!

    214. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lesley-Anne says: 7 October, 2015 at 4:04 pm:

      “Well one thing is certain … he is a cut above the rest”

      Aye! But it was by a close shave.

    215. Tinto Chiel says:

      The Herald must be losing money hand over fist with their Dead Tree Version so probably try to balance up with click bait, as Ruby has suggested. It has become, with the honourable exception of Ian Bell, a version of The Daily Record with big words. I gave it up a year past in July after one of Ian Woods’ front page exclusives where he told his usual lies about oil and I was then directed here by my more savvy daughter. My TV licence went last September, and was so good for my blood pressure: I don’t know how The Rev stands it. I hope the figure of a £150 million shortfall is true because it implies a million lapsed payers in the UK (and how many in S_______d?).

      This is High Noon for the Establishment Press. If they can deny us an increase in seats next year it will see Indyref2 delayed. The stakes are high and they are desperate: I’m sure they feel the earth is moving under their feet but they have no plan B.

      I simply feel we’re going to win this one but it will require a massive canvassing effort to offset the Establishment’s lies.

      But the party can deliver that.

    216. Rock says:

      Harry McAye,

      “Rock – you or I have no way of knowing the demographics of the National sales”

      It is not rocket science to conclude that if 45% voted for independence and only 20,000 are buying The National, the vast majority of them would be those already converted to the cause.

    217. Lesley-Anne says:

      Nana Smith says:
      7 October, 2015 at 7:42 pm

      Just spotted on twitter, anyone heard about this

      South Lanarkshire Council Lab election agent suspended over £200,000 temporary contract fraud. Not reported by BBC or STV

      Surely you jest Nana. This must surely be the top story on both channels. Maybe you just blinked and missed it. Never mind I’m sure you’ll hear all about this story on their next news broadcast. 😀

    218. K.A.Mylchreest says:

      Shame on this fellow’s local party and constituents for electing a millionaire as their MP. How can such a person possibly understand the daily struggles of ordinary people? Might as well just vote Tory and be done with it.

      I thought the SNP was supposed to represent ‘us’ not ‘them’. Naive, I know, in the end whoever ends up on top of the pile is going to piss down on the rest of us.

    219. Bob Mack says:

      I do not consider it essential the National backs independence or not.
      What I do consider essential is that it gives a balanced view so that I can make up my own mind.
      I do not get that from any other publication.and I refuse to be led by the nose to believe everything printed in newspapers.

    220. gus1940 says:

      I love the idea of a Who’s Who In The Scottish Media – it would be great if we were to be supplied with their e-mail addresses.

      Another exercise which may prove productive would be if somebody with a little time to spare could dig out the wills and value of the estates of all former Labour politicians who died say in the last 30years and compare the value with the career histories – it might come up with some interesting details like – given their career details how the hell did they amass such wealth? .

      On the subject of click bait is it not the case that the papers only receive income when people actually click on adverts and not on news item or commenting? Who pays them if I click on a story and then submit a comment?

    221. uno mas says:

      Macandroid says:
      7 October, 2015 at 3:48 pm
      OK how about checking out who the advertisers are using these papers (not newspapers BTW) and writing to them to say why we will not buy their products if they continue, and that they could always advertise in the National instead ?

      Que SNP witch hunt reported in same papers probably but it’s about time to hit them hard I think.

      BEST COMMENT OF THE THREAD SO FAR! EXCELLENT IDEA!

    222. Nana Smith says:

      Aye Lesley-Anne I’m laughing my socks off. Right sitting back awaiting the next breaking news bulletin…any second now…hello Bbc,Stv anybody there, hello helloooooooo

      http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27742

    223. john king says:

      L/A laughings cool but sometimes you just want to scweam and scweam a scweam until you make yourthelf thick!
      apropo Robert
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66edbMHoNic

    224. Bob Mack says:

      @KA Mylchreest,
      Being a millionaire is no bar to having a sense of morality.
      Mr @Mrs Weir have done wonderful things with their fortune,
      and have helped numerous good causes,from individuals to organisations.

      What does matter is that you appreciate that money is but tool to use wisely or imprudently.

      I have a friend who is a millionaire a few times over,and a more down to earth person you could not meet.
      It is about the person,not the assets.

    225. Lesley-Anne says:

      Nana Smith says:
      7 October, 2015 at 7:42 pm

      Just spotted on twitter, anyone heard about this

      South Lanarkshire Council Lab election agent suspended over £200,000 temporary contract fraud. Not reported by BBC or STV

      I wonder if the tweet you saw relates to this story Nana? 😉

      Sorry folks I tried to archive the link but came up with a blank page. ;(

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13771680.Council_boss_suspended_amid_row_over___200k_taxi_contracts_to_nephew/

    226. gerry parker says:

      “The widely read WOS would spread the information much further.”

      And we read it for Stu’s excellent forensic analysis of current MSN output.

      I’m sure he will consider your advice, but if he took that route then the Corporate Media would then just say he was muck – raking.

    227. Tam Jardine says:

      Iain More

      Today I was 2 hours late for a meeting in Glasgow as a result of this – train cancelled then forced to take the pony express through. Scotrail wifi non existent. A total shambles. I don’t see it as SNP bad as the network has been starved of investment for decades.

      It needs addressed. Shit happens but the rail network in Scotland needs major investment and upgrading – SNP can’t nationalise it but they can push to have the power to do so.

      There are issues of the day that are pressing and need action and if we were a normal country and not in the pre independence zone they would be front and centre. Instead it’s ‘SNP MP uses a loofah in the bath while constituents go hungry’ MRM bullshit.

      And no, i dont mean MSM, I mean MRM, mechanically recovered meat. The pure shite left over from the carcass of truth blasted with high pressure jets to recover some dubious remains to be congealed and repackaged for consumption of the public

    228. robert graham says:

      I renewed my subscription to the National today ! anyone know where the refund button is ? what a waste of f/n money i expected news of the fight back, some in depth analysis of the current media storm , what do i get loads of guff about the torys and wee ruthies plea to labour & lidem voters get a bloody grip is this the best they can do ? christ we are on our own chaps prepare for a long winter with the shite shifters

    229. Hamish100 says:

      The herald from North Britain has another hatchet the snp job just online. Prof Burnell of Northern Ireland , York and greatly awarded in all the British finery is saying snp bad for university’s. Now the person is obviously very clever but as for politics she is a novice ingrained with ideals of Britishness so ennobled by the loyalist North Irish. Red white and blue all the way.

      Maybe she can nip back over the water and sort out the current debacle over Stormont. We don’t need her advice here thanks.

    230. Arabs for Independence says:

      Quote from National Taxi Association

      “A senior employee in one of Scotland’s largest local authorities has been suspended amid a probe into taxi contracts worth more than £200,000 awarded to his relative.
      Peter Henry is off work at South Lanarkshire council while internal auditors examine payments totalling nearly £210,000 to his nephew for taking children with assisted support needs to school.
      Henry is also the election agent to Labour’s local Holyrood candidate and deputy council leader Jackie Burns.”

    231. Langspoon says:

      While waiting for the trains to restart to Fife this evening I was reminded of Douglas Hurd’s (yes that one) 1968 novel Scotch on the Rocks.

      In it the FRB is closed because of a bomb scare. The Bomb Disposal Squad turns up, bravely drives onto the bridge and blows up a toll booth before disappearing north.

      The ‘squad’ turned out to be the Scottish Liberation Army.

      It made me wonder.

    232. Tinto Chiel says:

      And Jacki Burns, who had planned to stand against Christina McKelvie, seems to have stood down too, Nana (8.06).

      I’m sure it will be all over the “Scottish”papers tomorrow as well.

      I have pixies at the bottom of my garden.

    233. ahundredthidiot says:

      I don’t see what all the fuss is about.

      These headlines certainly deserve more attention than say, 20 doctors and patients wasted by the US air campaign in Afghan……..doesn’t it??

      I don’t read any of this pish and have no inclination to visit their websites, but I am eternally grateful that Rev Stu does, to expose these idiots and ridicule their corporate propaganda campaign.

    234. Dr Ew says:

      Of course, it doesn’t matter that this is all nonsense and hyberbole. The hacks know that as well as we do. This is the long game, with one purpose only – a continuous drip, drip, drip feed of negativity undermining the SNP’s strongest suit, the integrity of its leading members.

      Next May no one will remember the detail about Michelle Thomson, or John Nicolson’s (gasp!) £320 photoshoot shocker. The idea is to leave a bad taste in everyone’s mouth, have the pub bores nod sagely and say, “Aye, they’re a’ the same.”

      The amount of people I’ve met who loathe Alex Salmond but can’t point to any specific reason – “He’s sleekit” or “Not to be trusted” or “smug” or “Two-faced”. Why? Because for the past decade he’s been vilified on the front page headlines that scream at you from the newstands in every supermarket, every newsagent, every corner shop you enter. Subliminal auto-suggestion, even if you don’t buy the rags.

      And that’s why the Murdochs and the Barclay Bros and the rest of the press barons keep their cash-haemorrhaging toiletpaper titshows going. They’re loss leaders, and immeasurably more valuable than the balance sheets say.

      And, of course, it’s the reason they hate you, Stu. Keep it up.

    235. David McDowell says:

      Les Wilson at 3:45pm

      Les, something clicked for me when I read a post on here yesterday. Wings does a fine job of exposing the Unionist propaganda, but the only thing that will really stop them up is people voting for the SNP in large enough numbers to send an unequivocal message: “We are not swalling your bullshit any more”. The thing that really gives these propagandists nightmares is the idea no one is listening any more.

      After the general election I think I detected, just for a fleeting moment, real panic in their ranks. They had done all their McTernan-style scare stories and smears and…NONE OF IT HAD WORKED! In fact it had the exact opposite effect to the one they were hoping for: Labour lost 40 seats.

      If you were watching closely the venom from their media pals (like Brewer) was scathing, and then began the slow, slow attempt to rebuild Labour in Scotland from the ground up, helped I am sorry to say by “can Labour come back from the dead” type articles appearing even in The National.

      For me this exposed the real weakness of the Unionists: they are absolutely dependent on their propaganda pals to win it for them…and they can no longer be so cocky about it being a sure-fire winner for them.

      When people stop responding to the propaganda it is over for them and they know it. Without that stranglehold over the political perception of the Scottish people they are finished. It will end when they realise most of the people can no longer be fooled most of the time. How long that will take I have no idea.

      The trouble is a lot of propaganda is dressed up as populist, non-political entertainment like “The Great British Bake Off” and “Have I Got News For You”, stuff that goes in completely “under the radar”. Don’t take my word for that. Ask Joseph Goebbels.

      The problem was reduced somewhat during the referendum when the political propaganda became so rabid and obvious that a lot of people who had never seen the BBC as anything other than kind old “Auntie Beeb” saw their outrageous lies during the referendum and finally asked themselves: “What the hell is this?!”

      The public response to the propaganda during the general election gives me hope that enough people have finally woken up to send another message loud and clear at the next Scottish parliament election: YOUR BULLSHIT ISN’T WORKING ANY MORE!

    236. Gary45% says:

      Don’t worry kids,
      The establishment media are going to implode big style.
      The reason being, all this sh*t they are trying to stick to the SNP will backfire on them when the truth comes out.

      If there was one shred of real evidence that could implicate any SNP member, there ARE hundreds if not thousands of “real” underhand deals going on in the “establishment”
      People in glass houses…..

      The old London Bus Found on Moon headline from a garbage paper years ago, is more credible than the crap the so called “quality press” produces nowadays.

      Gutter Press, I think that’s a compliment.

    237. heedtracker says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34459456

      So much for their mission to inform, its going to be red and blue tory Trident nukes dumped in their Scotland region but this lot aren’t going to tell anyone in their Scotland region

      At least future UKOK PM Corbyn wont fire Trident 2 at anyone, he says.

      This is nice from these rancid liars and hypocrites. Can you spot the four words given to their nuke weapons dump zone?

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/07/the-guardian-view-on-david-camerons-conference-speech-check-against-delivery

      If they can just get SLabour back in, the queen will be purring, baddies wont attack teamGB thanks to nukes, rich will get richer, they poor can fcuk off and god will be up in English heaven, watching the one show and cake making programmes.

    238. Grouse Beater says:

      Bob Mack: What I do consider essential is that it gives a balanced view so that I can make up my own mind.

      Almost all newspapers will claim they give a balanced view, the Guardian especially. It offers space to anybody with an opposing view to anything already published. But we know they take a political stance. The Guardian welcomes all views but steadfastly supports the Union.

      A good newspaper serving Scotland well, surely is the one that states Scotland’s case without exaggeration or dishonesty. And when it sees dishonesty in other papers will draw attention to it and oppose it.

      In the end, we are the arbiters of political doctrine.

      Even so, if a majority in Scotland move right-wing I’d like to think a good newspaper will continue to advocate a better outlook, and not just buckle down to Westminster rule. The newspapers we have now, bar one, reject Scotland and retain a loyalty to where they think lay a majority of readers.

      The one that does support Scotland is tied to another that doesn’t. As opponents said about sharing the pound, where’s independence in that?

      Well, I guess the answer is the same as the one given to Scotland’s alleged loss of fiscal authority over the pound when, had we shared the pound, Scotland would have representatives on the board of the bank of England – ergo: how free to undermine the National is the Herald with dwindling sales when it needs the National’s sales?

    239. Ruby says:

      gus1940 says:

      On the subject of click bait is it not the case that the papers only receive income when people actually click on adverts and not on news item or commenting? Who pays them if I click on a story and then submit a comment?

      That’s an interesting question! Here’s some info. I can’t imagine any commericial company is going to spend time creating a news website without getting any returns!

      http://www.nichepursuits.com/53-ways-to-make-money-from-your-website/

      http://www.sitepoint.com/10-ways-earn-money-from-your-site/

      https://www.google.com/search?q=make+money+with+your+website&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

      ‘2. Cost-per-Mille Ads

      The counterpart of CPC advertising is cost per mille. Here you are paid for each and every ad displayed, even when no one clicks.

      Because advertisers don’t want to pay for ads that are hardly seen, CPM advertising has even stricter requirements than CPC when it comes to placement and site quality.

      Most of the time you will also find that you have to meet minimum traffic requirements. Most companies working with publishers require 100,000 impressions a month or even more.

    240. McDuff says:

      Robert Graham

      I and others have been saying this for some time Robert that the National is a load of nonsense with its claim to back independence which it doesn`t. Its wishy washy stories lack credibility that they are for an independent Scotland and lack the punch or journalistic quality of the Rev.

    241. Stephen McKenzie says:

      You do wonder what “Newsquest” who owns the Herald or “Gannet” of the USA who owns Newsquest, would make of the Heralds almost suicidal slide in editorial standards and loss of circulation over the last few weeks.

      If we could get some addresses of those companies I would be more than happy to start corresponding with them. I doubt the Americans would be willing to lose some revenue just to promote Magnus Gardhams new found role as “House and Home editor..

    242. Mrs Grimble says:

      Ian Blackfords wife does most of the work on the croft, Ian himself does constituency work when not on Westmister duty
      It’s the same with my MP, Richard Arkless and his wife. They ran their home-based business together before the election; now she runs it by herself so that he can concentrate on being a full-time MP. Or are MP’s wives supposed to sit at home twiddling their thumbs until hubby walks through the door?

    243. heedtracker says:

      “I love every part of our country. We are one nation and I will defend our Union with everything I have got.”

      Cammers today at conference. Its a toryboy world but this is from toryboy No.1 who made no referendum public appearance, never once debated with anyone and so on. Another round of UKOK liars. He did sign the historic fraud The Vow though.

    244. Bob Mack says:

      @Grousebeater,
      Yes I agree with most of what you write. I can detect quite easilh when a publiction is openly or discreetly hostile to a person or cause.
      What I miss is what the Rev does on this site, Critical analysis,and facts reported openly and impartially.
      It may seem amazing to many that I find the Editor of an independence site impartial, but indeed he is. Many believe him biased who have a forced fed unionist loyalty to many other publications.

      The rev gives the facts and you can check for yourself. That is what I miss with my morning coffee and toast

    245. Robert Peffers says:

      @marga says: 7 October, 2015 at 5:50 pm:

      “Sometimes it helps to see things from another perspective to really feel what your opponents are up against.”

      Yes indeed, Marga. But it also helps if you know what your talking about. Here is a sample –

      In May 1941, during the Second World War, Arthur Donaldson’s home was raided by the Scottish police. They suspected him and other SNP figures of “subversive activities”, for supporting, “The Scottish Neutrality League).

      An un-named informant had walked into MI5 and told the desk officer, “Richard Brooman-White”, that if there was a Nazi invasion Donaldson intended to set up a puppet government like that of Vidkun Quisling.

      Donaldson was arrested and interned under Defence Regulation 18B, at Kilmarnock Prison and then at Barlinnie Prison in Glasgow and held without charge for six weeks.

      MI5, which had led raids against many Scottish nationalists, claimed, “subversive literature” and a “large cache of weapons” were found in Donaldson’s house. Donaldson was never charged with anything and no evidence for the MI5 allegations has ever been produced.

      Still think Alex was talking rubbish? 1941 until 2015 is 74 years and the SNP has always been a properly registered and legal political Party.

      Then there was the mysterious death of Willie MacRae, (7 April 1985). Willie was a Scottish naval officer, lawyer, orator, SNP politician and anti-nuclear campaigner. In the Second World War he served in the British Army and then the Royal Indian Navy.

      MacRae’s mysterious death, in which his car crashed in a remote part of the Scottish Highlands and he was shot in the head with a revolver. The official verdict was suicide.

      Yet it later was claimed by a nurse, present in the operating theatre, that Willie had two bullets in his brain and the gun was found a long way from the car. Witnesses claimed Willie’s car was being followed by MI5 people and in spite of many requests the official documents have never been released by the then Northern Police Force.

      Shooting yourself in the head once, perhaps: Twice? Nah! Then afterwards throwing the gun a great distance? Nah!

      Alex was telling you the truth and SNP people have been subjected to persecution from the Establishment since their formation in 1934 and have been seeking independence all along.

    246. Jess Armstrong, advisor to David Cameron, casually revealing the contempt Cameron has for ordinary people or as he likes to call them, “scum”.

      http://www.facebook.com/inmynewsfeed/videos/1068547396489172/?fref=nf

      New boss. Same as the old boss.

      Enjoy. Actually, maybe not.

    247. Angra Mainyu says:

      That’s no moon…

    248. Gary45% says:

      heedtracker@9.11
      D cam pig fuc*er, doesn’t know his ar*e from his elbow as far as the union goes.
      I have said for many years the Establishment (red, blue or yellow tory) don’t give a sh*t about anything north of Watford.
      Independence is the ONLY answer for the future of Scotland.

      At next years election, if the morons decide to back the tories, because “they cannot vote for the SNP at any cost”,
      then FU*K them. they will deserve everything they get.
      When it goes tits up I will sit back and piss myself laughing when they come out with the begging bowl.
      As the saying goes “you made your bed”
      Wan Kerr on the aye player just now, NHS special, a total waste of skin, E Bradford health correspondent, “she doesn’t have the brains to boil water”.

    249. Papadox says:

      The EBC last night broadcast a very strange “documentary” on “historic” child abuse and the Establishment.
      The only thing I took from it was that the Establishment via their agents (EBC) are slowly trying to erase this sad fact from the records and re write history again. To muddy the waters and insert the thin end of the wedge, introduce doubt in the minds of the peasants.

      Then we have the State and its agents trying to smother the democratic will of the Scottish people by smearing them with LIES and avoiding the truth if it des not suite the powerful and the Westminster gangsters. Feeding us anti Scottish propaganda. “Anti Beeb, Scotland,” never a truer saying ever came out of a EBC mouth.

      The fifth column, or press gang in Scotland have certainly made me think again about independence. Every time I think about it the more deeply rooted it becomes, there is no turning back. Soar Caesar!

      Ruthy baby tonight on her Tory broadcast said two or three times. Think of your country! I MOST CERTAINLY AM now FO.

    250. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ruby.

      You typed,
      Why are there so few comments on The National?

      Could it be because you have to be signed up to FaceBook, in order to post a comment?

      Posting a comment on The National is not a simple procedure, like it used to be a few years ago, with BTL comments. Personally, I can’t be @r$ed.

      ———————————————-

      For those of you who hit The Herald’s paywall…

      For those using Firefox as their web browser, download and install the Firefox add-on, “Remove Cookies For Site”.

      Then, when you go to a Herald page, wait for the page to finish downloading (you can see the progress at the bottom left of the window), then right-click somewhere convenient on the page, and click on “Remove Cookies For Site”. Then reload the page.

      This has the effect of treating you as a new visitor EVERY TIME, so you get the four free articles endlessly. Just remember to do the right-click procedure (with reload) on every new page you open.

      It works on ‘other’ sites as well.

      http://dwipal.com/removecookiesextension.htm

    251. Robert Peffers says:

      @peter says: 7 October, 2015 at 6:33 pm:

      ” … There must be lots of skeletons in lots of cupboards just waiting to come out and when they do it must be pursued relentlessly.”

      And there, Peter is the rub. We have had some really sickening and degenerate crimes carried out by well established members of the Establishment. From the very crown heads of the UK to members of the commons, Lords, Education system, media, civil service, armed forces and the established church. In short from the right across the entire Establishment.

      Yet many never reach the courts and are covered up. Others get off with very light sentences and even when there is a conviction the Media never really go ape-shit in the manner they have over such as Ms Thompson who, to date is not under any official investigation, not charged with any crime.

      It has always been thus. Today a Bishop of the CofE was convicted of sexual crimes against , I think, about 18 young men. It was briefly reported, never made the front pages and never made headlines.

      But then none of them were Scottish independence supporters. Mind you there was even a UK king that supported the NAZis and various English aristocracy who did too. Not really anything made of them like the campaign against an, as yet, innocent woman.

    252. yesindyref2 says:

      Anyway I’m defo going to try to break the habit of the Herald so as no to support it in any way. Hopefully the sensible commenters will leave for good and leave the cesspit behind them to ru in its own juices. Which means I’ll probably stick around and pester people with my inane postings. You have been warned. Long live the next referendum!

    253. yesindyref2 says:

      What I do for the Herald is run Ccleaner (free download), that cleans out the cookies. Also when I’ve clicked on a Herald page I wait till the article appears and maybe a second for the comments, then (in firefox) click the x on the address bar to stop page loading.

      Otherwise the page is jerky you can be waiting ages for their incompetent ad loaders to finish, it jumps around, and you get some very weird noises in the background something like the animals in the pink floyd track played backwards.

      It probably also deprives them of any pay per impression revenue as the ads don’t get to be loaded, suck on that, Herald.

    254. Taranaich says:

      Here’s the thing about The National and the Sunday Herald: they are not independent. Money which goes to them will go to Newsquest. Money from pro-independence supporters will ultimately be going to anti-independence media giants. The Herald’s faltering sales are buoyed by independence supporters patronising their low-budget spinoffs.

      Here’s the thing: we are not independent either. We pay taxes, we abide by the laws of Westminster where reserved, we do everything their way. At least some of the money which goes to pro-independence supporters will, directly or indirectly, go to the British Establishment in the form of tax, paying for advertising, renting equipment, or whatnot.

      Even if we had a completely independent newspaper completely unrelated to Newsquest or Trinity Media or Johnstone Press, with no owners or journalists or editors who are anything other than ardent pro-independence supporters, advertising only pro-independence clients, delivered by pro-independence vans, pro-independence every link in the chain – we would still be paying money, one way or another, towards the British establishment.

      I can understand everyone cynical towards The National and the Sunday Herald, but this is a symptom of the same thing we’re all fighting against – the intrusion and control the British establishment has on all our lives. Nothing we do is done without their knowledge or permission. Having even two pro-independent newspapers on the stands, at least two voices in a sea of openly anti-independence and nominally-neutral newsspapers, is worth supporting – even if the money ultimately ends up in unionist pockets.

      I think it’s a worthy trade-off. Even from the most cynical POV, we’re getting the Unionist media to provide a voice for us. It depends who’s getting the best deal out of it: them, for getting our money, or us, for the legitimacy of a voice in the wilderness.

    255. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tony Little says: 7 October, 2015 at 6:47 pm:

      “OT. Speaking of the Herald. There has been no article by Ian Bell since 30 August. Anyone know why?”

      Hi, Tony, I have a vague memory of reading Ian had been unwell for some time.

    256. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just a wee heads up to anyone travelling to watch Scotland play in the Rugby World Cup. You know the World Cup I’m talking about folks don’t you?

      It’s the World Cup hosted by England where Enland FAILED to get passed the group stages. 😀

      http://www.facebook.com/pmechan/videos/10153213424422404/

    257. HandandShrimp says:

      There is an amazing amount of inconsequential pish in the papers about the SNP at the moment. It seems odd given that the Conservatives are having a crash and burn conference. I would have though that would have provided more than material for a serious political journalist.

      It is almost like they are having withdrawal symptoms from the heady days of copying everything Better Together churned out.

    258. Phronesis says:

      PM Blair New Labour (Party Conference 2000)

      ‘Crime, anti-social behaviour, racial intolerance, drug abuse, destroy families and communities. They destroy the respect for others on which society is founded. They blight the life chances of thousands of young people and the quality of life of millions more’

      PM Cameron Son of New Labour (Party Conference 2015)

      ‘It means taking on our big social problems…entrenched poverty, blocked opportunity, the extremism that blights our communities.Conservatives understand that if we’re serious about solving the problem, we need to tackle the root causes of poverty.Homes where no-one works; children growing up in chaos; addiction, mental health problems, abuse, family breakdown’ Chipping Norton excluded of course.

      Gosh 15 years later and the song remains the same. Britain isn’t that great is it? An independent Scotland is coming and we can solve the ‘blight’ in our communities with our own solutions.

    259. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well who saw this train coming down the track? 😉

      I dunno about anyone else but I think I know for certain one person who did NOT see this train coming, probably too interested in Miss Piggy. 😀

      https://archive.is/6QRv1

    260. heedtracker says:

      https://twitter.com/George_Osborne?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

      Not a spoof, but I have never seen Gideon ever tweeting anything about his nuke weapon dump zone region, other than he was going to dump even more nukes in his Scotland region.

      and his Pacific crew crew don’t give a mention to English blue toryboy conference either.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/scotland_politics

      Sneaky shits and cunning plans. Maybe BBC vote red tory Scotland are going to explain today speeches very soon. Come on BBC, what about people that can’t bear the sight of your smirking presenters but still have to pay your fees. Whats the BBC hundred million quid internet site for?

    261. Robert Louis says:

      It seems a pity that all the organisation and talent behind Newshaft will soon be lost.

      Is there no way it can be saved?

    262. Big Jock says:

      Lesley Anne.

      They only got knocked out because of the SNP. It has to be our fault. Surprised the papers aren’t blaming Sturgeon. Apparently the SNP are back to being the North Koreans again. We are some lot I tell you.

    263. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oh right … of course … silly me BJ. I really should have given more thought to my last post shouldn’t I? 😀

    264. Big Jock says:

      No irony in Cameron’s words:” I respect all the countries in the UK, England, Scotland, Niere & Wales. We are one Nation!

      I can recommend a good political geography course for him.

    265. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      On Cameron’s Tory conference ‘sex joke’:

      “His book is actually called “The Joy of Tax”,” Mr Cameron said.

      “I took it home to show Samantha.

      “It’s got 64 positions – and none of them work.”

      Which is why Call Me Dave prefers to read the ‘Hamasutra’ as the piggie-position works just fine for him.

    266. paulTgeist says:

      Grouse Beater says on 7 October, 2015 at 8:46 pm
      “Almost all newspapers will claim they give a balanced view, the Guardian especially. It offers space to anybody with an opposing view to anything already published.”

      Can we put that to the test? Do you think we could get away with posting a regular supply of WOS links in their comment sections? Do you think they will allow us to link directly to WOS, say, as much as some directly link to that unionist rag on here?
      Has anyone tried it? If so, what was the result?

      Could be a way of gaining some new converts! What do you think?

    267. Grouse Beater says:

      Hand and Shrimp:
      “There is an amazing amount of inconsequential pish in the papers about the SNP”

      Well, when Edward Snowden warns us that a respected and trusted investigative television programme put Tory planted questions (from GCHQ) in it, you know we cannot trust our broadcaster anymore, let alone the rancid* newspapers.

      [*‘Rancid’ – copyright of Heedtracker]

    268. heedtracker says:

      Gerry Hassan of the Record getting very excited. To be fair he’s everywhere/cashing in online with his “its all over now isn’t it” allegories/cringe and his endless Thompson’s maybe not a crook but she is repetition. Make hay etc

      https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/gerry-hassan/nationalism-alone-is-not-enough-snp-finally-shows-it-is-mortal

      Personally I’d like dudes like this to tell us why SNP not going under next May. frightens the life out of everyone in teamGB news rooms.

      “Maybe, just maybe, the SNP have peaked too soon in terms of next year’s elections.

      Their 62 per cent support came nine months before Scotland goes to the polls and there is only one way from such stratospheric ratings – down.

      Eventually the difference between that 62 per cent and 35 per cent ­satisfaction at their government record will become a live issue.

      The aim of Nicola Sturgeon as leader in this environment has been similar to taking a fragile, precious vase from one side of a room to another, across a ­slippery floor.

      The vase is the SNP’s popular support, while the other side of the room is ­Scotland post-2016 and winning a ­second consecutive majority.

      This raises the thorny question of power for what and, ultimately, ­independence for what?

      The trope of recent years has been that independence allows Scotland to take decisions itself and do them better in the name of advancing a more centre-left, social democratic Scotland.

      What we need to ask after last week is whether, for some in the SNP, ­independence is only about power.

      It’s serious question, and for the sake of the SNP and the cause of ­independence, we’d better get some serious answers.”

    269. Ruby says:

      http://search.proquest.com/barcode?accountid=15842&groupid=93264

      Does anyone ever use the above? It’s pretty amazing and it’s all totally legal. I believe the articles are from the print copies of the newspapers. For example if you search for
      ‘John Nicolson, an SNP MP with a good eye for property’
      (which is the title of the online Herald article)
      you get nothing however if you search for John Nicolson you get an article by Magnus Gardham entitled

      ‘SNP MP fashions a nice little earner at des res London pad’

      which I presume is what was printed in the hard copy of the Herald.

      You have to select articles from last 7 days in advanced search otherwise you get a load of articles dating from 1999. There are various different archives it pretty much what would be on offer in a reference library.

      It’s pretty good if you want to read articles from The Times because they don’t offer any free samples and the ‘clear browsing data’ trick doesn’t work on The Times.

      I can use the site with my EDC library card but I would imagine most library will be signed up to this facility.

      Definitely worth checking out.

    270. Tinto Chiel says:

      “We are one nation!”

      Yes, Big Jock, Ein Volk, Ein Reich is probably what he means.

      Don’t forget, he was only educated at Eton. I think your political geography would be wasted on him.

      The Tory Party Conference was a beyond-parody freak show which emphasised S______d and England are on completely different trajectories.

      Frightening all the same.

    271. Ruby says:

      http://www.proquest.com/

      Here’s a link about Proquest.

    272. liz says:

      I dislike Gerry Hassan’s writings.

      He was never an indy supprter but someone who sits on the sidelines and tries to dazzle us plebs with his intellect, IMO he is really boring and doesn’t have much to tell us about anything.

    273. Ruby says:

      ‘SNP MP fashions a nice little earner at des res London pad’

      which I presume is what was printed in the hard copy of the Herald.

      Silly me yes of course it is what is printed in the hard copy of the Herald it’s right up there at the top this article.

    274. Big Jock says:

      I gave up reading Hassan just after the referendum. When he came out with. We all need to come together and make devolution work. The guy is an absolute light weight. Pretends he has insight.

      Actually he is not insightful at all. He is one of life’s posturers. He doesn’t understand that Scotland will never get what it needs within the UK. All those years of spouting prosaic flowery shite have addled his brain.

    275. heedtracker says:

      *’Rancid The Graun’ – copyright of Heedtracker:D

    276. Grouse Beater says:

      Paul: “Do you think we could get away with posting a regular supply of WOS links in their comment sections?”

      Worth a try. Personally, my own modest output, here and on my essay blog, is as much as I can manage crammed between a full week’s work, contractual obligations, family, and domestic chores.

      I recall (with others here) suggesting the National publish a daily blog topic from Wings – and pay Stuart, of course – but that hasn’t happened. Shame, it’s a great idea. Others thought Stuart should be the National’s editor.

      My understanding of him says he’s happiest as the rebel with a cause, not a man to accept an ethic that has commercial goals paramount. So, send in the daily column.

      Anyhow, he has a cat to consider! 🙂

    277. Big Jock says:

      News just in.

      Top SNP MP found with 6 rolls of Italian designer wallpaper. Sturgeon will have a job wriggling out of this one.

    278. Legerwood says:

      Robert Letters @ 10.13 pm

      Mr Bell has been writing his usual 3 volume per week, Wed and Sat in Herald and Sunday Herald. He did not have a column in the Herald last Wednesday but as far as I am aware that is the only one he has missed recently.

    279. Ruby says:

      The only thing I heard about the Tory Conference was someone on the 8pm BBC news saying that no plebs attend the Tory conference because it costs around £800-£900 to attend the Tory conference. He thought that those who could afford to spend almost a grand to attend the conference would approve of everything being said but the not so affleunt members of the Tory party might not.

      I was only half listening on the car radio hence lack of info.

      Re Davie Hamboner saying he will defend the Union with everything he’s got: What has he got? A big book of Scare Stories & Porkies?

    280. Iain More says:

      At the mention of Gerry Hassan I think I will go to bed. He conjures up images for me of somebody playing with themselves as nobody can understand the utter pish he utters.

    281. Robert Peffers says:

      @Iain More says: 7 October, 2015 at 11:33 pm:

      “At the mention of Gerry Hassan I think I will go to bed. He conjures up images for me of somebody playing with themselves as nobody can understand the utter pish he utters.”

      Oh! I understand him well enough. Which is why I’m off to bed too.

    282. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Big Jock at 11.07

      Exactly

    283. heedtracker says:

      Well at least someone in Pacific Quay had the telly on today and dozens of reasons why they didnt report Cammers greatest ever speech.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34464667

      Arguments about Scotland were for another day

      “Perhaps it was a feeling – recently voiced by the Scottish Secretary David Mundell – that the proposed new reforms for Holyrood have been scrutinised in detail, are a done deal apart from a few amendments to come and should prove to be an end to the constitutional debate. Move on now, nothing to see here.”

      A done deal, from paye tax only given up to fcuk Scotland royally, to The Vow shyste, devo-max, federal uk.

      Although something popped up that Smith had devoed funeral services.

      Biggest rip off in Scottish history and all to keep control of their Scotland region.

    284. paulTgeist says:

      Grouse Beater says on 7 October, 2015 at 11:10 pm
      “Others thought Stuart should be the National’s editor.”

      Aye, b@ll@x to that, he can stay where he is. As you say, he’s better the rebel. Dancing to anothers tune just isn’t Stu.
      Horses for courses and that thoroughbred is ours!
      😉

    285. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      McDuff at 8.58

      Rubbish. Do you actually read it? I doubt it.
      What do you think of Mhairi Black’s recent column?

    286. Ruby says:

      Legerwood are you referring to the hard copy of the Herald?

      I don’t see any Ian Bell article online today but according to Proquest he wrote an article in today’s Herald entitled

      ‘This Tory centre ground is as hard as it possibly could be’

    287. caz-m says:

      BBC Scotland and STV share the same Unionist guests.

      They are on the prize wankers Scottish cringe list,

      Regular wankers include:-

      Gerry Hussan
      Simon Pia
      Kevin McKenna
      Jackie Baillie
      Ian MacWhirter
      Gardham
      David Clegg

      They come out of one Unionist studio, walk across the car park and before they know it, they are in the other Unionist studio.

      We could be in for twenty years of Tory rule, yet these “experts” just want to sit back and accept that fact.

      Like Scottish Labour, they have NO vision for Scotland.

    288. heedtracker says:

      Toryboy what loved it today in NewStatesman,

      “The shadow minister Jonathan Reynolds told me: “We’ve got to be extremely clear that this is not business as usual. This is a real attempt by the Tories to put us out of business – possibly for ever.”

      The Conservatives’ aim is to contaminate Labour to the point where, even if Jeremy Corbyn were deposed, the toxin would endure. For those opposition MPs who emphasise being a government-in-waiting, rather than a protest movement, the contrast between the high politics of the Tory conference and Corbyn’s rally appearance in Manchester was painfully sharp.”

      So switch a couple of words to

      BBC Scotland led media’s aim is to contaminate SNP to the point where, even if Nicola Sturgeon were deposed, the toxin would endure.

      Bish bosh, rule Britannia.

    289. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      caz-m at 12.03

      Whit????
      Have you actually read anything Kevin McKenna has written over the past eighteen months?

    290. The mauling the SNP and SNP MPs are experiencing is a coup by another name, designed to bring about a change of government not immediately but in May next year.

      All I can say is – imagine Kezia as FM! My imagination fails me when I think what her front bench team might resemble.

    291. Cherry says:

      Hi all, like everyone else on here I’m sick to the back teeth with the relentless “carping” from the ‘Propaganda press and unionist Cartel. So let’s get this message out the best way we can..remember #j’suis Charlie.. and all the tin foil hats that went viral. We need to show our support to our government..so..# j’suis SNP.

      Get it trending on Twitter let them know we are here and behind them. It will also get right up ‘their’noses and as Jones said “they don’t like it up em capt’n’ don’t u just love to piss em off! Hahahaha.

      # j’suis SNP go get them tweeters!

    292. Marga says:

      OT if that’s what you call a plea to put down the flame thrower.

      Robert Peffers says:
      “7 October, 2015 at 9:24 pm

      @marga says: 7 October, 2015 at 5:50 pm:

      “Sometimes it helps to see things from another perspective to really feel what your opponents are up against.”

      Yes indeed, Marga. But it also helps if you know what your talking about.”

      Shucks, Robert, that’s me telt!

      Wingers are great, especially for someone abroad with no easy access to face-to-face information, but you certainly have to take the rough with the smooth!

    293. Onwards says:

      Harry McAye says:

      7 October, 2015 at 7:35 pm

      Rock – you or I have no way of knowing the demographics of the National sales but having it on the newsstand is surely a huge plus.
      ———-

      @Harry, he won’t answer that point. It has been pointed out plenty of times.
      As has the fact that both papers, and hundreds of others are owned by Gannett – a huge American media company.
      It’s like complaining that sales of the National are subsidising ‘USA today’.

      And the Herald isn’t just going to fold tomorrow. It is a flagship brand in Scotland, and one of the oldest papers in the world from 1793. It has well established motoring and property sections bought by those in the trade.
      So if the National ceased to exist, the Herald would go on regardless and there would be no pro-Scottish voice at all in the shops.
      Ideally, they will merge into each other in the future, and adapt a pro-indy line.

      Sure it would be ideal if they had a pro-indy Scottish owner, but it is what it is. Let’s face it, no-one else is going to start a new Scottish daily paper at this time without existing infrastructure – so if it closes down, we will be back to the bad old days of unopposed propaganda on the shelves.

      Rock seems to be the type of fundamentalist that can’t think strategically.
      He insists no-one can be both Scottish and British after independence, when it exactly those folks who have dual identities that we need to convince to vote YES in the future.. not make them feel unwelcome.

    294. Cherry says:

      Or # WE DON’T SWALLOW BULLSHIT ANYMORE! That could cover all the crap they shovel over Scotland..

    295. Paula Rose says:

      @ Marga – Robert Peffers is our bit of rough.
      @Harry McAye – Rock is our bit of stuck in the mud.

      We’re all a bit of us.

    296. Onwards says:

      ..
      ClanDonald says:

      7 October, 2015 at 12:44 pm

      I don’t know about anyone else but I’m finding all this press hysteria a bit mental. It’s extraordinary, this level of frenzy is usually reserved for murder accusations and beautiful princesses..

      They’re driven by fear. It’s clear that they’re doing their best to prevent an SNP majority at Holyrood next year as it’s the only way they can now prevent an indyref2 and the certain end of Britain. That’s what their ‘list of demands” is, a panic-stricken battle for a unionist majority in the Scottish Parliament or it’s game over.
      ———–

      It’s all about shifting the focus onto something other than the constitution.

      Getting 56 MP’s also has its downsides. It puts the focus back onto Westminster rather than Holyrood, and inevitably some will have baggage. We can be sure that their history will be raked over, their phones will be bugged, and every bit of trivia will be drip fed to the press for the next 6 months.

    297. Grouse Beater says:

      Iain More: “At the mention of Gerry Hassan I think I will go to bed.”

      Attached to Hassan’s avatar: “Academic and Daily Mail columnist”

      Can those qualities co-exist in one person? I doubt it. 🙂

    298. Legerwood says:

      Ruby @ 11.58

      Yes that is the title of Wednesday’s article.

      Since revamping their online site articles by columnists often appear without the columnists name on them and, unlike the old site, when you click on columnists it does not always give you a full list of articles written by them.

      The new site is awful but I can assure you he is writing regular columns and some if not all are appearing online.

    299. Legerwood says:

      Ruby,
      I have checked Wednesday’ online and hard copy editions of the Herald and Ian Bell’s article is in both but they have given it avdifferent title in the on-line version.

    300. The Man in the Jar says:

      Watching BBC earlier there was an article regarding anti refugee protests in Germany by some far right wing groups.

      In the footage I noticed that the German far right have adapted the cross of St. George to their own ends. There were numerous examples of this flag in the video footage.

      This flag consists of a black on yellow “St. Georges cross” on a red background. Kind of tells you something when the German far right admire your country so much that they adopt your flag in a show of unity.

    301. tartanpigsy says:

      Completely O/T but if you speak Russian have a listen, and for the rest of us please read Putin’s subtitles as he delivers this put down to John Simpson about Western aggression
      , brilliant
      https://uprootedpalestinians.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/putin-crushes-bbc-smartass-john-simpson-i-dont-think-this-will-be-screened-in-the-uk/

    302. Al-Stuart says:

      Hi Stuart,

      Please worry not.

      May I present the net effect of the drivel that the MainStreamMudslingers have on what is by any definition a sophisticated electorate here in Scotland?

      Given the inexorable volume of excrement these newshits have thrown at we voters – Since 20013, then leading up to various elections, and increasing to full vile-volume leading up to IndyRef1, then up to GE2015, THIS is precisely the result…

      1 May 2003 SNP wins 20.9% of the vote (list stats).
      3 May 2007 SNP wins 31.0% of the vote (list stats).
      5 May 2011 SNP wins 44.0% of the vote (list stats).
      18 September 2014 IndyRef1 wins 44.7% of the vote.
      8th May 2015 SNP wins 50% of the vote.

      I’ve restated these stats., from an earlier thread because it really does answer the point about MSM durge-versus-results.

      Stuart, your time and ours is NOT wasted. The electorate, and the statistic is at least 50% in Scotland now ROUNDLY IGNORE the mudslingers.

      So the opening quote in your article: “you may find that you become decreasingly tolerant of those who waste your remaining time on Earth. you have a very valid point. However, my rejoinder is all the work that you do on and for WoS is paying off admirably. The numbers above speak for themselves. Ten years ago I would have called for the folk in white coats to take you away if you said that the SNP would get anywhere near 50% let alone 56 SNP MPs.

      In spite of all the lies the MSM spew out, the figures are undeniable.

    303. Macart says:

      @Raranaich 10.13pm

      Nailed it. 🙂

    304. Macart says:

      ‘T’

      Taranaich.

      Doh!

    305. yesindyref2 says:

      It actually wasn’t hard resisting the urge to post on the Herald. We have Paul “Blunt” Hatchetjob on MT having taken a cheque for BfS from someone who was jailed for 15 months back in 1997 but she didn’t bank it. Tomorrow we’ll have the mystery of the unbanked cheque in the drawing room with MT but it was the lead piping that done it.

      Then we have R Daneel Olivawson whose red light is glowing as he mixes his plot and thinks he’s in Battlestar Galactica revealing there’s fracking in the ranks of the *NP.

      Not a lot else.

    306. Macart says:

      @HandandShrimp

      Yeah, they do so love misdirection. A lot of look over hear, not over there happening. The National has had some decent coverage of the conference and a wee peek at what awaits the electorate in terms of Conservative rule for the future. We’ve even had a wee look at some of the contenders in action for leadership, as and when Dave decides to retire and write his memoirs.

      Scary folks right enough.

    307. Al-Stuart says:

      Here is a direct message for Magnus Gardham, political editor at The Herald.

      Magnus, your dire reportage appears to be in line with your employers trajectory towards oblivion…

      The Herald – Circulation Decline…

      1992: 121,297

      1997: 104,844

      Fast forward…

      2013: 38,939

      2014: 37,000

      Quoting your pal Douglas Fraser…

      With large debts, their owner, Johnston Press, has been cutting costs, including a reduction in journalist staffing over recent weeks.

      Source: https://archive.is/4eNGx

      Seriously Magnus, your newspaper The Herald has seen it’s circulation go from 121,297 to less than 37,000 in 19 years. At what point do you close The Herald?

      Methinks that The Herald is fast reaching the point where it may no longer viable to print. On simple arithmetic progression you have 19 months, maybe 3 to 4 years at most.

      Even the cross subsidy that we deadbeats have helped your paper with via your sister publication at the Sunday Herald is being called into question – by some on this very WoS website.

      As sure as night follows day, the newspaper industry in Scotland is in for one mighty upheaval with mergers and closures the order of the day.

      So answer me this Magnus, who is going to give you a job on the CV of durge+drivel articles dripping like acid from your broken quill?

    308. yesindyref2 says:

      I forgot. Lastly and least, there’s watery Magnus Gardham who doesn’t know the difference between Scottish Water and Business Stream. I daresay the Herald will be employing extra staff to handle the phone calls from worried consumers who think their water will be coming from Anglia. I believe they call it “alarm and despondency”.

      Don’t worry folks, it’s still Scottish Water – we had plenty of it vertically this year 🙁

    309. yesindyref2 says:

      @me (addition)

      “Then we have R Daneel Olivawson whose red light is glowing as he mixes his plot and thinks he’s in Battlestar Galactica revealing there’s fracking in the ranks of the *NP. Well, we are going forth and multiplying. Over 112,000 of us now.”

      That’s better.

    310. Ken500 says:

      The National is replacing the Herald. It is a replacement for those who don’t have the Internet.

      Anyone of the 25% who voted Tory should be ashamed. The SNP/Independence vote is rising.

      The Press is falling. No one believes them anymore. The MSM is owned by tax evading NonDoms. Not free and not fair. People get their news from the foreign Press or Internet.

    311. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Al Stuart, think you’re getting your Hootsmon and your Heralds mixed up there. Herald is in Newsquest stable and Hootsmon is with Johnstone Press.

    312. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Apparently Dauntless (T46) and Artful (Astute) are at Faslane for JW152, and I found this excellent article for anyone interested in the state of the RN:

      http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/the-state-of-the-rn/

    313. louis.b.argyll says:

      Here’s my list of demands,,

      a) free Scotland.

      b) rest of ‘Brittania’, be ‘ruled’ by leaders of your own choosing.

      That’s it…

    314. john king says:

      David McDowell says
      “The trouble is a lot of propaganda is dressed up as populist, non-political entertainment like “The Great British Bake Off” and “Have I Got News For You”, stuff that goes in completely “under the radar”.”

      I stopped watching HIGNFY several years ago when the “subliminal messaging suddenly came through loud and clear, couldn’t have been any clearer if Ian Hyslop had used a megaphone.

      The wife thought I was being paranoid but last night the cameras were scanning the Tory party conference when the voiceover reporter talked about “jostling for position for Cameron’s job” when as he said “next leader” the camera landed on and zoomed in fleetingly on Johnston
      and she said “well we know who they want to be the next leader anyway”.

      I’m proud of you my dear wife
      now sally forth and spread the message since I cant cos everyone thinks (correctly) I’m a rolling eyed seperatist nutcase, while people will listen to you. 🙂
      ________________________________________________________
      @ME 🙂
      I watched in growing fury a report on the American arseholes (I cant bring myself to say his name) court action against the Scottish governments Menie offshore windfarm proposal

      Not just because he has a bleedin hard neck telling us “Scotland will thank me for doing them a favour” but also the fact the infuriatingly he’s able to take his (and is) case to the UK supreme court,

      ps
      I wouldnt be surprised if Cameron’s keeping him in the loop as to how much he’ll be cutting from the block grant,
      the Scottish government wont be ABLE to oppose that arsehole for the next five years,
      who needs TTIP when you’ve got a bottomless slushfund eh?

      Again just WHO THE FUCK DO THOSE PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE?
      that they can (potentially) overrule Scottish law (help me out here Robert) but wasn’t Scottish law sacrosanct in the treaty on union?

      He also said he has “5 years of appeals left”
      that bastard will BUY the result he wants!
      ___________________________________________________________
      KA Mylechreest says
      “I thought the SNP was supposed to represent ‘us’ not ‘them’. Naive, I know, in the end whoever ends up on top of the pile is going to piss down on the rest of us.”

      SNIFF SNIFF…
      I smell shite!
      _________________________________________________________
      Taranaich says
      “I think it’s a worthy trade-off. Even from the most cynical POV, we’re getting the Unionist media to provide a voice for us. It depends who’s getting the best deal out of it: them, for getting our money, or us, for the legitimacy of a voice in the wilderness.”

      BISH BASH BOSH
      you don’t get to pick your friends in this union you take the help that’s offered if anyone thinks “its complicated”
      its only complicated if you choose to make it so
      question:
      can we see independence supporting headlines in the supermarket every day (apart from sundays)
      answer:
      Not quite because of where the National is hidden away at the back like an adult magazine.
      not a problem because people like us are already wise to them and sticking copies over the insane press like the mail (I never miss a chance to do that) 🙂

      STOP OVER ANALYZING FOLKS IT’LL KILL YOU
      Stick to the things we CAN make the bastards suffer for such as not shopping at ASDA and Morrisons and they ARE suffering believe me!

      My own daughter who cant be persuaded not to shop there (ASDA) pointed out recently “its so much easier to get a space at ASDA’s these days”
      we’re winning people.

    315. Robert Peffers says:

      @Marga says: 8 October, 2015 at 12:53 am:

      “Shucks, Robert, that’s me telt! “

      Depends on how you define, “telt”. Marga. If you mean, “informed”, then yes. If you mean, “Told off”, then that was not the intention.

      I’ll put you in the picture from where I’m coming from.

      As a wee schoolboy, way back in around 1946, I was pressed into service by Labour supporting parents to campaign on behalf of the guy who would become the first Labour Lord Provost of Edinburgh, Jack Kane. Now grown-ups are none too guarded on what they speak off when the only one they really don’t know present is a schoolboy and I learned things I did not like to hear.

      I was politically aware even then and used to spend time listening to the speakers at, “Speaker’s Corner”, at the foot of The Mound in Edinburgh. I listened to such as Wendy Wood, Canon Kenyon Wright, and the early SNP leaders. Something about those Labour Guys was not to my liking. Not, BTW Jack Kane himself. Jack was indeed a good guy. I was also a history buff and a debating Society member.

      I knew just how Scotland and Scots were shafted by the English Establishment since ever there was an England. Our journey towards independence has indeed been exactly as Alex Salmond described it long, lonely, hard and often discouraging and historically going on since long before Robert Bruce. Now do you get what Alex was saying?

      Remember too that legally, under Scottish Law, we have always been a sovereign people.

      For example, as the people are sovereign, we Scots have always had the legal right to hold a referendum. Yet the Establishment apply English Law and tell us they won’t allow us one.

      Catalonia, as legally an integral part of Spain, is legally under Spanish law and thus legally requires permission.

      So the legal situation in Catalonia is quite different. Hence Alex’s end bit of establishing permission. He is being helpful and warning of the problems that will be met in the Catalonian struggle.

      So, Marga, as to being, “telt”, I view free and open comment between people as a very healthy and desirable thing and I don’t get upset if anyone disagrees with my views or wishes to correct anything I say.

      So there ye go – if you feel like it, give me both barrels for it can only serve to enlighten both of us, (and everyone else reading it).

    316. Grouse Beater says:

      Worth repeating:

      Under Scottish Law, we have always been a sovereign people. For example, as the people are sovereign, we Scots have always had the legal right to hold a referendum. Yet the Establishment apply English Law and tell us they won’t allow us one.”

    317. Grouse Beater says:

      John King: “It couldn’t have been any clearer if Ian Hyslop had used a megaphone.”

      Hyslop still thinks Darien was Scotland’s attempt at imperialism. He cannot tell the difference between a trading post and wanting to own an empire.

      He also thinks England saved Scotland from bankruptcy. Historical fact and basic arithmetic are not his strong points.

    318. Macart says:

      @John King

      Aye the man with a cat on his head does have deep pockets, but we have a veeeeeerrrrry sssllllooooooowwwwwww legal system, with equally sssslllloooooooowwwww speaking solicitors. Five years will fair whizz by.

      An if the fella thought dealing with an economist as FM was bad, wait till he catches a load of an FM who’s a bit wise to the law. 😉

      He’d also better keep an eye on the future since this wee corner of the UK may not be part of the UKs system of government for very much longer.

    319. Tinto Chiel says:

      john king:

      Agree with you completely about Hyslop and HIGNFY. It produces safe satire which gives some the illusion it’s attacking the Establishment. I gave it up long ago.

      Hyslop loves to get a dig in at the Sweaties (the Darien Scheme is one of his favourites) in his condescending UKOK way but his face was a picture when Paul Merton reminded him once he was Welsh by birth. He didn’t like that.

    320. heedtracker says:

      Still nothing from BBC Scotland. Dear BBC Scotland why are you not reporting Scotland Cammers speech n shit yesterday?

      Polly of rancid The Graun, who said no Scot will be allowed high UK.gov office, no matter how the ref went-

      “For all his talk of loving every part of the nation, (pig fancier Cameron) his legacy may be a disunited kingdom – politically more angrily divided than any time since Thatcher ignited the 1980s.

      This emollient speech will be forgotten if his epitaph names him as the man who took us out of Europe and thus lost Scotland and broke the Northern Ireland peace accord.

      He will not just have shrunk the state and left a dwindled public realm, but he will have lost the realm itself. He may look back on this speech as his finest hour – and a political lesson in how fine words never in the end disguise political deeds”

      Lost Scotland!

      or that’s why the gits are silent.

      Not sure how you lose Scotland, its quite big, oh you mean you think you own it, so you think you can lose it, right.

    321. john king says:

      Macart says
      “Aye the man with a cat on his head does have deep pockets, but we have a veeeeeerrrrry sssllllooooooowwwwwww legal system, with equally sssslllloooooooowwwww speaking solicitors. Five years will fair whizz by.”

      Its for that very reason that he WILL win because just like Aberdeen council placing objection after objection to the bypass which was NEVER about a real objection to something every man and his dog knew was critical to Aberdeen and everything to do with political motives,.
      That council was happy to bankrupt Aberdeen if it meant the Scottish government could be forced to climb down because of the crippling cost of the continuation of the appeal process,

      The miraculous ability that SNP have of balancing the books would be blown out of the water if all who harbour ill will towards the Scottish government (of which there is no shortage) with a fund to support their hatred could destroy the governments ability to govern simply because the cost of continuous litigation would be ruinous to this country and Trump knows that and has the moolah to wait them out!

    322. caz-m says:

      Re: Kevin McKenna and his mixed messages.

      If a war for Scottish Independence broke out and you had the YES campaigners fighting the NO campaigners, would you want Kevin McKenna in the trenches with you?

      For a start, he wouldn’t be in the trenches. He would be running about in no-man’s land like a headless chicken.

      Once he saw who was going to win, then that is side McKenna would head for.

      He is far too cosy with Scottish Labour.

      He has no principals, he is an over rated chancer. IMO.

    323. Grouse Beater says:

      I can see little that’s truly satirical in HIGNFY.

      It’s staple fare is very English: jeering, pricking hypocrisy while exuding superiority, surreal jokes usually involving talking animals, (most of those come from Paul Merton) good-natured rebuke over a guest’s misdemeanours, but rarely does it express an alternative political opinion about anything. It withholds opinion by simply laughing at another’s point of view – an English trait.

      For satire you have to provide an alternative opinion, not simply lampoon celebrity.

      The Americans ‘do’ real satire – see the John Stewart Show, or Onion magazine.

    324. Arabs for Independence says:

      Re HIGNFY

      Used to be my number 1 programme, a must see for me. Then I started to see what a little prick Hislop was. Also started to think for myself when reading Private Eye – there was a range of scandals waiting to be exposed in Scotland especially the shennanigans at Glasgow Coonsil and Stephen Purcell which should have been a Private Eye hot topic as it was right up there street.

      Hislop is part of the set up that he was meant to lampoon – he has dined out on being constantly sued although the last time was probably more than 20 years ago. His dad is Scottish. his Maw is fae Jersey and he was born in Wales but Ian is pure establishment.

    325. Grouse Beater says:

      “Britain to station troops in Baltic region ‘to deter Russian aggression'”

      Anybody here recall voting for that to give Westminster a mandate to begin another war? Is this another Union dividend?

    326. Macart says:

      @John King

      Possibly John, he’s won nothing yet regardless of his deep pockets and influence. But on top of all the other court cases I have no doubt he’s embroiled in, he’s also up to his arse in a presidential run, which are famous for beggaring many a candidate. He’s fighting on many fronts as it were. He’s yer typical ‘money talks’ entitled type. Wave enough moolah and the problem goes away. Except he’s not on home turf and his problem won’t go away even if he does win. In fact he may wind up hanging an Albatross round his neck.

      He needs to remember, he’s a visitor.

      As I say, if he’s smart he’ll keep one eye on Scotland’s constitutional future and think again.

    327. galamcennalath says:

      HIGNFY …. Obnoxious London Bubble pseudo intellectual dross.

      Hyslop is part of the Establishment, but pretends to be outside with some special insight of it.

      It’s not funny nor informative nor entertaining … yawn.

    328. Robert Peffers says:

      @Onwards says: 8 October, 2015 at 12:54 am:

      ” … He insists no-one can be both Scottish and British after independence, when it exactly those folks who have dual identities that we need to convince to vote YES in the future.. not make them feel unwelcome.”

      In fact you and Rock are both wrong on that score and you do not need to be a genius to understand the truth.

      Britain and the UK are legally two quite different things and, when the two kingdom United Kingdom returns to being two kingdoms, neither of them will be all of Britain but both will remain British. In any case the UK government has never ruled all Britain although all Britain, (except the Republic), has been Her Majesty’s Realm as there are three non-UK Crown Protectorates.

    329. Valerie says:

      Caz-m @ 8.44, that’s exactly how I see McKenna.

      McKenna keeps doing enough articles for me to say, oh, that seems quite fair comment, the next time he reaches for his hatchet.

      I don’t care how upset he was for his daughter at the No vote, he is upsetting plenty of us since then.

      I too think he nurses a love of SLab, like a junkie that can’t get clean.

    330. Will Podmore says:

      Grouse Beater rightly warns us against Westminster war plotting: “Britain to station troops in Baltic region ‘to deter Russian aggression’”
      In 2013, the whole country voted down Cameron’s scheme to attack Syria. We have to act together to stop him sabre-rattling yet again.

    331. john king says:

      As I say, if he’s smart he’ll keep one eye on Scotland’s constitutional future and think again.

      By which time he’ll have TTIP getting his back his costs he’s running up for the presidency he is already calculating he’ll recoup at Scotland’s expense in the courts!

    332. john king says:

      Robert Peffers @09.07

      For the life of me Bob I cant understand why that is hard to get for some people?
      The word Britain is no more a UK construct that the union flag represents England!

    333. john king says:

      Plodmore says
      “We have to act together to stop him sabre-rattling yet again.”

      Yes we do I agree but when WE DO get out of this poisonous union,
      YOUR ON YOUR OWN PILGRIM!

    334. caz-m says:

      @heedtracker,

      BBC Scotland: “Nothing to see here, move along please”.

      “We’ll decide what shit you are fed”.

    335. john king says:

      Trump didn’t get to BE a billionaire by being a total idiot Sam,

      He’s dangerous and we’d all do well to remember that!

    336. Macart says:

      He’s no idiot John that’s for sure and dangerous doesn’t begin to describe this arse.

      You caught much of his presidential run so far?

    337. Ruby says:

      Legerwood says:
      8 October, 2015 at 1:39 am

      Ruby,
      I have checked Wednesday’ online and hard copy editions of the Herald and Ian Bell’s article is in both but they have given it a different title in the on-line version.

      Cheers Legerwood I eventually found Ian Bell’s article online but it was no easy task.

      The online version had the headline:
      ‘Hunt far removed from political rude health with latest gaffes’

      The hard copy headline was:
      ‘This Tory centre ground is as hard as it possibly could be’

      I noticed there were only 6 comments on Ian Bell’s article. Perhaps like me a lot of people were unable to find the article.

      Herald list of most commented articles

      1. Emails reveal how economic case for independence was undermined by scandal-hit Michelle Thomson 352 1

      2. MP Thomson’s business described raise in families losing homes as “great opportunity” 329 2

      3. John Nicolson, an SNP MP with a good eye for property 299 3

      4. SNP candidate embroiled in Michelle Thomson property row 284 4

      5. Labour MPs told: don’t mention “Scotland”, talk about Scottish towns and cities instead 253 5

      6. Labour calls on Lord Advocate to address Thomson case 193 6

      7. Three reasons why we are seeing the collapse of the SNP 177 7

      8. Michelle Thomson row: SNP faces fresh questions over cabinet ministers endorsing business record 161 8

      9. Sixteen of the SNP’s 55 MPs have financial interests in property 148 9

      10. Solicitor: Michelle Thomson has offered to help police with investigation into property dealings 143 10

      If more comments equals more ad revenue/more sales then you can understand why ‘The Herald’ go for the SNP Bad stories.

    338. galamcennalath says:

      OT. Parliament debate Trident today.

      http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2015/oct/opportunity-cross-party-unity-trident

      It will be VERY interesting what SLab MSPs have to say.

    339. Alastair says:

      The Herald has an piece that Nicola Sturgeon is in the running for their Scottish Politician of the Year.
      I hope she and all the SNP PM’s and MSP’s boycott this event and neither attend, accept nominations or awards.

    340. Luigi says:

      Grouse Beater says:

      8 October, 2015 at 8:57 am

      “Britain to station troops in Baltic region ‘to deter Russian aggression’”

      Anybody here recall voting for that to give Westminster a mandate to begin another war? Is this another Union dividend?

      Putin has completely outmanouvered them on Syria. Their cunning middle east plan to remove Assad and replace him with their own guy has collapsed. They are desperate to show that they are still doing something, so we get all this useless sabre rattling, well away from the current war zone. Dangerous games though, because Putin is now committed and is in no mood to back off. If the USA decides to stay back, then Cameron has no option but to follow suit. Impotence comes to mind.

    341. john king says:

      “You caught much of his presidential run so far?”

      He’s Boris Johnston without the charm. 🙂

    342. john king says:

      Luigi says
      “If the USA decides to stay back, then Cameron has no option but to follow suit. Impotence comes to mind.”

      I agree,
      he’s waving his dick around at the wrong guy there,
      he’d be better sticking to pigs. 😉

    343. mr thms says:

      #Robert Peffers

      “For example, as the people are sovereign, we Scots have always had the legal right to hold a referendum.”

      Could this all change if Holyrood give the Tories permission to abolish fhe Human Rights Act and replace it with a UK Bill of Rights?

      Professor Adam Tomkins is a Conservative List candidate.

      I read an article of his in the Guardian on this topic.

      Urgent action needed to preserve United Kingdom, thinktank says”

    344. Ruby says:

      Alastair says:
      8 October, 2015 at 9:41 am

      The Herald has an piece that Nicola Sturgeon is in the running for their Scottish Politician of the Year.

      ‘Mr Rennie, who is also nominated in the Donald Dewar Debater of the Year category’

      It sounds as if it’s all just a bit of fun! Not something to take too seriously!

      Just out of interest do people have to pay to attend this function at Prestonfield Stables?

    345. Valerie says:

      Not had to seek out much on The Donald and his shenanigans, as FB keeps me updated. He is odious.

      I saw a meme 2 days ago with Obama, head in hands, saying, it’s going to be hard to explain all this money spent on IS, when the Russians get it fixed in 2 weeks.

      RT putting out lots of footage, and yes, it’s propaganda, but impressive, of missile footage, paths of missiles etc.

      No coincidence troop movement comes day after Hameron enjoys adulation from his acolytes in Manchester, where snipers were trained on egg carrying protesters.

    346. mr thms says:

      Sorry, using a phone..

      Here is the link

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/20/urgent-action-needed-to-preserve-united-kingdom-thinktank-says

      Read what the think tank says about what a UK Bill of Rights says about a referendum.

      It says it could include the right to hold a referendum?

    347. Macart says:

      @John King

      “He’s Boris Johnston without the charm.”

      Coffee through the nose moment. 😀 LOL

    348. Luigi says:

      john king says:

      8 October, 2015 at 9:50 am

      I agree,
      he’s waving his dick around at the wrong guy there,
      he’d be better sticking to pigs. 😉

      Quite an accurate synopsis there, John. Sometimes you just say the things that need to be said!

    349. The Man in the Jar says:

      Some time ago when HIGNFY was being discussed on Wings someone brilliantly described it as “The view from the third year dorm at Eaton” 🙂 🙂

    350. Bob Mack says:

      @Luigi

      “Impotence comes to mind”” —-doubt the pig would agree.

    351. Nana Smith says:

      O/T links

      Slow news day. Usual snp bashing, so no changes there.

      http://www.snp.org/blog/post/2015/oct/swinney-calls-fair-devolution-finance-deal

      http://www.thecanary.co/2015/10/07/eu-court-rules-protect-citizens-privacy-us-snooping-ttip-world-us-companies-sue/

      https://www.politicshome.com/document/press-release/law-society/court-closures-will-inhibit-access-justice

      Bar bill for the tory conference leaked, nice old time the tories had at 90 grand for 1 night. Plus they have ordered the cctv footage to be deleted.

      Tories fearful of the people build a wall to keep the plebs away and put snipers on the roof. Who is paying for that security?
      No doubt they have ordered real bullets for when the riots begin.

      Since Tories passed the Health & Social Care Act (2012) £21 BILLION+ of OUR NHS sold off.

      http://www.peoplesnhs.org/nhs-privatisation-counter/

    352. Luigi says:

      Valerie says:

      8 October, 2015 at 9:59 am

      RT putting out lots of footage, and yes, it’s propaganda, but impressive, of missile footage, paths of missiles etc.

      The ruskies are beating the neoliberals at their own game, and they don’t like it up em!

      Cameron’s eagerness to get involved and swing his pig machine is worrying, however. If Obama is as smart as some say, he will exploit this little ham-faced pawn who seems eager to sacrifice himself and his country if it makes him look big.

    353. Robert Peffers says:

      @john king says: 8 October, 2015 at 9:14 am:

      “For the life of me Bob I cant understand why that is hard to get for some people? The word Britain is no more a UK construct that the union flag represents England!”

      It is, John, the success of the Establishment propaganda. They have much practice having been at it since Roma times.

      As I’ve so often pointed out the Roman’s ruled South Britain by Romanising the local south Britain bigwigs ad letting them run South Britain for them.

      The whole Roman Empire was run and financed by holding censuses and taxing the locals then running customs and excise systems. Christ was born when his parents were travelling to a census.

      The Gask Ridge, (the first Roman wall in Europe), in Scotland was continued as the Antonine Wall. Then later replaced by Hadrian’s wall that the propaganda claims was to keep the Picts out.

      The truth was these were the start of a series of such walls around the Roman Empire to prevent smuggling. Apparently some experts claim the guard posts faced south.

      The Roman Establishment propaganda has been continued ever since. My early school history teaching just claimed, “The Roman’s invaded Britain and stayed for hundreds of years”. My later history teacher opened my eyes and taught us the truth.

      However, the southern Establishment has since continued the propaganda that the former Roman Britain became England and the terms England, Britain, Great Britain and the United Kingdom have been conflated by the southern Establishment ever since. Not only that but they seem now to believe it themselves.

      Quotation : –

      The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as, “The United Kingdom.

      The Treaty of Union says nothing of the sort and Scots law was retained in the treaty as independent for very good reason. We Scots are sovereign and our Monarch, (who we share with the Kingdom of England), is not sovereign. As the Kingdom of England, only, is a Constitutional Monarchy then the English Parliament at Westminster cannot, under Scots law, claim sovereignty over Scotland.

      If a majority of us elect a majority of members to either Westminster or Holyrood and give them a mandate to withdraw from the United Kingdom the international courts will have no believable laws to overrule our democratic and legally correct sovereign rights.

    354. galamcennalath says:

      @mr thms

      “… the people are sovereign… Could this all change”

      I have always been very against federal solutions (not that they will actually happen) because you would need a UK wide feral constitution and each state within that federation would have equal status. The make up of the U.K. Is not like that. Federation would diminish Scotland from being a country to a state. And with that would go our sovereign rights.

      Consider Catalonia’s relationship with Spain because of the Spanish constitution. The Catalan people do not hold the sovereignty Scots do.

      I suspect WM, if it could, would try tinkering with our rights in other ways to make independence more difficult. Wouldn’t surprise me if this is what their Bill of Rights idea was partly about.

    355. Capella says:

      If you haven’t already seen it, “You’ve Been Trumped” is an excellent expose of Mr Trump and all his works. But be quick, it has a tendency to disappear from Youtube. I can’t think why.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wlf1eQsNIQ

    356. heedtracker says:

      Capella says:
      8 October, 2015 at 10:34 am
      If you haven’t already seen it, “You’ve Been Trumped” is an excellent expose of Mr Trump and all his work.

      Its a full on monstering of Trump, Alex Salmond, Scottish democracy, Holyrood, the police etc

      Ofcourse vast hordes vote NO or else britnat unionistas piled in, like this

      http://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2011/sep/13/youve-been-trumped-scotland-golf-course

      “John Swinney, the Scottish cabinet secretary for finance and sustainable growth, overturned the council’s decision by announcing permission for the development in November 2008.

      However,”

      Endless teamGB monstering of everything Scottish democracy but if just once they’d bothered to even mention that there are several links golf course neighbours for Trump golf and been there since Scotland actually invented golf.

      Whatever youre up to Capella, its pretty lame.

    357. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Ruby @ 9.38am posted a list of the top ten “most read” stories in The Herald.

      Yes, most of these came into the “SNP bad” category.

      I wouldn’t worry too-much. According to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, who is never far from the truth – how MI5 must wish their Moscow Moles were as good at information-gathering as PMGB’s Ibrox Insiders – the next major implosion involving the Rangers Tribute Act is just over the horizon.

      Once the King is shown to have no clothes, the SNP and its members will get nowhere near the “most read” stories list in the Herald.

      Even if Hamshank kissed and made-up with Miss Piggy, live on Strictly Come Dancing’s Got The X-Factor, the Herald wouldn’t bother, such would be their concentration on events around Ibrox.

    358. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Under the UN Charter the Catalonian people have the absolute right to become independent if a majority ambition for it is legally established.
      It doesn’t matter what the Spanish constitution says the Catalonians do not have to ask Spanish permission to rule themselves. Nor does Scotland require UK assent or UK permission to organise referendums.

      Laws and constitutions are made to benefit those who make them. They rely on a majority being persuaded to accept them as sacrosanct.
      A law is only practically valid as long for as it has majority support. Laws and constitutions have changed all the time throughout history

    359. Robert Peffers says:

      @mr thms says: 8 October, 2015 at 9:53 am:

      “Could this all change if Holyrood give the Tories permission to abolish fhe Human Rights Act and replace it with a UK Bill of Rights?”

      I believe it would not but I’m not a lawyer. My former legal eagle was a long dead old Edinburgh guy and history buff I used to often blether with on the legal aspects of historic matters.

      His take on it was that Scots law is based mainly upon the Declaration of Arbroath and when the Treaty of Union was signed the canny Scots would not sign unless the Scottish Legal system remained independent along with the Scots Education system, that the Monarchy were excluded as head of Scottish Churches and the freedom to print Scottish Bank notes for the Pound sterling was retained.

      There has also been Scottish Claims of Right since 1706/7 that were more or less ignored by Westminster but thus never officially refuted either.

      This means when the English/Welsh/Irish elect a politician they are giving that person the right to exercise the English Monarch’s sovereignty on the people’s behalf but when we Scots elect someone they are given a mandate to exercise our sovereignty but according to the Declaration of Arbroath the people have the right to drive out anyone we agree is not doing our bidding.

      “Professor Adam Tomkins is a Conservative List candidate”.

      He is also a total arse – but that’s just my opinion.

    360. Alastair says:

      Ruby.
      I have to disagree that it’s a bit of fun.
      There is a concerted campain by the Herald against the SNP and the Scottish Parliament to destroy careers, misreport, bend facts and lie. Is that a bit of fun.
      Why give oxygen to the Herald who will use the event to further their own agenda.
      Boycott !

    361. Wull says:

      Maybe we need a fully pro-independence weekly newspaper of some sort. It could be called ‘Scotland the Week’.

      To begin with, it could simply be an online publication, but formatted like a print newspaper. Perhaps a print version could also be produced if, eventually, it was found to have sufficient backing and support to make this financially viable.

      It could have a strong and sustained ‘Mediawatch’ element. This would include a clear and accurate refutation of every false or dubious report that the MSM have put out over the past week.

      That would already cover quite a few pages. There would also be room for all kinds of other articles, of a high quality, and factual summaries of whatever has happened in or to Scotland during the past week. All kinds of fields would be covered – not just politics but sport, cultural events etc.

      The characteristic in almost all articles would be that of simply stating the facts. As in the best quality journalism of old, articles which are essentially comment would be separated from those – the bulk – that would concentrate on strictly factual content.

      The best pro-Indy writers on the web would be identified, and not only invited but entitled – if they so wish – to provide an article any time they wanted to. The Rev. Stu would no doubt be first on the list. Provided ‘Scotland the Week’ is able to sustain itself, they should also receive some payment for their contributions or – if they preferred – a contribution to their own work / websites / or charity of choice.

      It would also draw attention to these pro-Indy websites, without being a substitute for going there.

      We can’t simply rely on outlets like the National and the Sunday Herald, which may be helpful to some extent but which are not without their ambiguities. (And which might even, at any moment, in subtle ways that some will hardly notice, turn against us. Not least on account of the underlying anti-independence stance of their owners.)

      Would it really be so expensive to launch such a thing as this ‘Scotland the Week’ on-line? Could it wash its face financially? Is it viable? What would it need?

      I am no expert in such things, and wouldn’t have a clue how to run it. But there must be people out there more savvy than myself who have the expertise to set it up, and the know-how to make a go of it.

      So … how about it? Anyone for ‘Scotland the Week’?

    362. Capella says:

      @ heedtracker
      “Whatever youre up to Capella, its pretty lame.”

      What I’m up to is providing the links to information that most won’t have seen. Certainly not on the Corporate Media. I think people can judge for themselves.

    363. stonefree says:

      There was a post in 2006 on the forum Scottish Labour the one that was started by an SNP member and pro SNP The Labour party like the tits they are registered the name, anyway this was a post there was another where Marcus was looking for a safe Labour seat the post was by Jaggy How much is true?
      “Jaggy wrote:
      SHOCK at the Daily Record today as self proclaimed political editor Magnus Gardham was allegedly told to clear his desk!
      The disgraced journalist, who works for the English based newspaper, was responsible for unintentionally playing a large part in the humiliating defeat of Labour in Scotland. This comes after he led a disastrous 4 year campaign of deceit making outrageous claims in a desperate bid to re-elect the party. The campaign ultimately failed as Scots refused to be scammed by the Labour supporting newspaper.
      A spokesman for the London Labour party is believed to have said:
      “We the Labour Party very graciously gave £1million to the Daily Record. We do not just hand out others people’s money like that for nothing you know; we expected them to tow the party line. Of course we told them it was for advertising revenue, but what did they expect us to say. After Magnus let us down so drastically were starting to think the fool may actually have believed it”.
      He then went on to talk about Iain Gray, the Labour MSP, who had amusingly announced himself as ready to be Scotland’s next First Minister:
      “We even allowed that Scottish chap, I think he may have been called Iain Gray, to tell Magnus what to write and run things up there. However, it seems he spent more time running away”.
      “They both stupidly seem to have got wrapped up in their own perceived importance. Their priority was solely to get us back into power here in London as everyone knows that’s where the real politics take place. Take it from me both of them are finished and Mr Gardham’s dream of becoming a Labour MP is now nothing more than a fantasy worthy of one of his reports”.
      Mr Gardham was widely lampooned after he launched a prolonged “campaign of deception” in order to cheat hard working Scots into voting Labour. The scheming reporter would often use hearsay and half truths in his articles to distort actual facts. A favourite trick was to simply ignore any story which showed Labour in a bad light. After years of treating Scots with contempt his ranting reports became increasingly ludicrous, leading some online commentators to question Mr Gardham’s mental wellbeing.
      A contact linked to the newspaper allegedly made the following comments:
      “Here at the Daily Record we all loved Magnus, almost as much as we loved Iain Gray. There was even talk of putting his picture up in the staff canteen beside Tony Blair’s hand drawn portrait.”
      “Around here he was a bit of a hero and his fanatical dedication was frightening yet reassuring to behold. Magnus would often let us know when Jesus had personally phoned him on behalf of the Labour Party.
      But that’s not all as further comments appear to give an insight into the humiliated reporters out of control and increasingly manic mentality:
      “Magnus would strut around here in his smoking jacket listening to You’re so Vain on his ruby encrusted iPod. He spent most of the day impressing the office junior with tales of how he alone controls the Scottish electorate. He was often heard loudly proclaiming he was the most powerful man in Scotland, and often, the Universe!”
      Circulation figures for the Record have hit rock bottom and its arch rival the Sun now outsells it daily by tens of thousands. A reliable source claims fellow reporter Torcuil Crichton, who conspired along with Mr Gardham, allegedly wept and his lip visibly quivered under his moustache as he whimpered:
      “Now we have lost Magnus and we don’t have Lord Iain of Sandwichshire to tell him what to write. They were our only hope of saving this paper and putting London back where it belongs, firmly in charge of Scotland”.
      To work colleagues he was known as Magnum PI due to the “egotistic and cavalier” style he used to report Scottish politics. However, after the rumour of his departure, even his assistant is now calling him Magnus P45.
      Mr Gardham was unavailable for comment and has apparently filled in an online application, for a part time post, as tea lady to Trade Union officials. Colleagues claim the discredited reporter was last seen in a tearful embrace with fellow collaborator Mr Crichton.”

    364. stonefree says:

      The Labour party like the tits they are registered the name,
      that should have been
      The Labour party like the tits they are forgot to registered the name,

    365. Capella says:

      @ heedtracker
      https://archive.is/9W003
      That Guardian article you linked to was a good summary of the issues involved. The Scottish Government, and Alex Salmond, are not above criticism. As an SNP member, I hope that they do not sacrifice our environment to corporate interests. I intend to go to the Conference this month and check out the INEOS stall.

      When the fracking licenses come up for grabs, I hope that the protection of our land and water has priority.

    366. Valerie says:

      Capella

      Not sure what you’re talking about ‘re licenses??

      Full moratorium in place until 2017 from today, with timetable for consultation.

      I’ve been arguing with anti frackers for weeks that SNP will come good, and they have.

      I know you are a regular, but not helpful sowing doubt over something they ARE delivering on ‘re fracking. I’m so sick of conspiracy over this issue in the anti fracking groups, and you are parroting it.

    367. Les Wilson says:

      Sorry, thought this was an astonishing statement by Ruthie at the Cons Convention.An extract.

      ” It’s now down to us to take on a SNP administration grown fat with power and suffering all the arrogance and hubris that power can bring!”

      Did she mix up our party with her own I wonder. Pot calling the kettle black.

    368. Robert Peffers says:

      @mr thms says: 8 October, 2015 at 10:01 am:

      “http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/20/urgent-action-needed-to-preserve-united-kingdom-thinktank-says

      Read what the think tank says about what a UK Bill of Rights says about a referendum.

      It says it could include the right to hold a referendum?”

      I really don’t pay overmuch attention to Establishment, “Think Tanks”, as they all ted to, “think”, they have no need to consider that the three country Kingdom England has automatic sovereignty over Scotland and that Scots law need not be considered.

      Fortunately for Scotland there are many precedents, (and the legal system follows precedence as we saw in the Alistair Michael hearing). For example the USA and UK bust a gut attempting to commandeer the Lockerbie Bomber Trial to be run under USA law or English law.

      However, International Law ruled that the illegal act was in Scottish jurisdiction and had to be held under Scottish law. (Holding it on temporary Scottish Soil was a fudge and should never have been agreed).

      I’m sure if Hameron though he could have got away with it he would have not permitted the last indyref. No matter what else, he cannot get round the wording of the Treaty of Union it is that clear and in the 308 years of the United Kingdom Scottish Law, The Scottish Education System, the right to freedom of Royals Heading Churches and the right to Sterling and printing banknotes has never been changed. Do you think that’s accidental?

      The Scottish Courts have ruled several times overruled English/UK attempts to claim that Scots people are not sovereign.

    369. Les Wilson says:

      Fun today in the National, after being stabbed in the back by the Tank Commander, it seems all the Better Together mob are now fighting between themselves.
      Hope it gets worse! They deserve no less.

    370. Nana Smith says:

      @Les Wilson

      Well ruthie should go lie down..

      tns poll I linked to at 11.12

      New Scotland Poll: theSNP 56%, Lab 21%, Tories 12%, Lib Dems 6% via @tns_global #SP16

    371. Dan Huil says:

      Sorry if this is old news: TNS poll today has SNP on 56% – Labour 21% – Tory 12%

    372. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Absolutely excellent WGD in today National

    373. Legerwood says:

      Ruby @ 9.38 am

      Glad you found the article. As I said they do not make it easy to find Ian Bell or Iain McWhirter’s articles although I have noticed recently that they put Mr McWhirter’s photo against his articles.

      Nana Smith @ 10.34

      Re the announcement of the moratorium.

      I think the Herald must have got wind of this announcement because their main front page story was about, alleged, dissension in the rank and file SNP membeship about the supposed watering down of a conference motion to discuss a moratorium on coal gasification.

      The usual sort of spoiler tactic of the Herald – allege the opposite of what they know is going to happen which then makes it look as if the SG have done a U-turn.

    374. Tinto Chiel says:

      Robert Peffers:

      And we should not forget that even Lord Cooper in 1953, who did not support the claim by John MacCormick that use of English regnal numbers in Scotland was a breach of the terms of Union, did give his opinion that “the principle of unlimited sovereignty of Parliament is a distinctively English principle and has no counterpart in Scottish constitutional law”.

      Of course, Fluffy Mundell knows better.

    375. Free Scotland says:

      @Wull at 10:59

      The idea is good, but the suggested title is not. There would be endless unionist jibes playing on the word “Week” and spelling it “Weak.”

    376. heedtracker says:

      @Capella, What I’m up to is providing the links to information that most won’t have seen. Certainly not on the Corporate Media. I think people can judge for themselves

      Oh I see,

      But that documentary was all smear and attack on Salmond and Scotland’s parliamentary process. And it was broadcast nationalyy and prime time across teamGB by the BBC and all britnat press used it attack Salmond, so your “most won’t have seen” stuff is also rather tawdry deceit.

      Did you know that local people actually went to the councilors homes to demand they change Aberdeen council’s block on Trump?

      Said councilors didn’t like it much but its what happens, and of course no mention of any of that in Tripping up Scotland.

      One major local people style issue over the Trump block was that the whole area is practically one golf course, from Newburgh right down to the Brig O Don. So when assorted unionist nutters on council said No Trump, people were rather angry.

      Yes its all Sights of Special Scientific Interest and rightly so, but there are over a dozen golf courses across Scotland built on SSSI’s. The oldest links golf course is a couple of miles from Trump. So Again Cappella, it really pissed off local people.

      But all these real world facts were totally ignored by Tripping up Trump con artists and UKOK Brtinats leapt on it all.

      Yes Trump is ghastly/brilliant but he’s no different from any other developer, road builder, town planner, you name it.

      You’re just one more con.

    377. galamcennalath says:

      “Establishment Think Tanks”

      The problem with Establishment thought of any kind is that they simply ‘group think’ the same old Establishment thinking. Their world is full of truths about the nature of their precious Union/Empire and these are never challenged.

      The inner surface of the The Bubble is mirrored and in the middle is a big navel to gaze upon.

    378. Valerie says:

      Fleetwood

      Exactly right ‘re Herald spoiler piece.

      Leith branch perfectly happy with rewording of their motion, as it was wrapped up with other branch submissions.

      But hey, that’s a rubbish headline. A party being run listening to members?

    379. Valerie says:

      SORRY LEGERWOOD!

    380. Nana Smith says:

      @Legerwood

      I think you are most probably right. Wonder how they manage to get wind of what is being planned.

    381. Thepnr says:

      @Nana Smith

      That poll is great news, best bit for me was this:

      “Among those who voted in the general election and who expressed a preference in the survey, 97% of those who voted SNP at the general election intend to back the party for the Holyrood election next year, against 85% of those who voted Labour intending to do so again in May.”

      Lot’s of Labour supporters now unsure, the truth is getting out there despite the lying corporate media.

    382. Legerwood says:

      Valerie @12.07.

      Apologies accepted.

      Still on the Herald, I notice they are not allowing comments on the new poll which shows the SNP’s lead at 35% over Labour.

    383. Socrates MacSporran says:

      The look on Dippity Dug’s face when she got up to ask her supplementary question to the Nippy Sweetie today – just after Nicola had used her “five Labour MPs jailed” line, said it all.

      Dippity Dug’s facial expression said: “Ah’m fucked”.

      Then Nicola ripped her a new one. Dippity Dug’s body language says it all: “We’re fucked”.

    384. Ruby says:

      Alastair says:
      8 October, 2015 at 10:56 am

      Ruby.
      I have to disagree that it’s a bit of fun.
      There is a concerted campaign by the Herald against the SNP and the Scottish Parliament to destroy careers, misreport, bend facts and lie. Is that a bit of fun.
      Why give oxygen to the Herald who will use the event to further their own agenda.
      Boycott !

      I believe that laughing at ‘The Herald’ and turning it all into a bit of fun will be more effective than a boycott. Surely voting Willie Rennie as Debater of the Year can’t be anything other than a joke!

      What ‘The Herald’ print is not really the problem the problem is whether people believe/are influenced by what they print.
      I get the feeling ‘The Herald’ is losing all credibility amongst serious readers.

      The owners of ‘The Herald’ have decided they are better off turning their newspaper into a gutter press tabloid.
      They will be competing with the Daily Mail etc and their readership just love all these easy to read ‘SNP Bad stories’

      The only thing that is going to change is the readership of The Herald.
      All the SNP/SNP supporters can do is to find a way to influence the people who love the easy to read ‘SNP Bad stories and that is probably about as easy a task as to get Celtic supporters to support Rangers or to get members of the Orange Lodge to attend mass.

      Perhaps we should ask Socrates MacSporran he seems to know a thing or two about football supporters etc and on top of that he has a way with words!

    385. Nana Smith says:

      @Thepnr

      Don’t you just love how the media is helping the snp gain the trust of the electorate. Well that appears to be what is happening.

    386. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 8 October, 2015 at 10:28 am

      @mr thms

      “Federation would diminish Scotland from being a country to a state. And with that would go our sovereign rights.

      No it wouldn’t, galamcennalath. Consider the great beauty and wisdom of the, “Declaration of Arbroath”, In making the people, and not either the Crown nor the State, sovereign no one ca legally take away our sovereignty for the wording of the Declaration precludes them doing so. It is always worth a re-read. The part that states the people have the right to drive out their appointed Monarch if he should not do his duty.

      The American law is based upon the same premise and see how hard the USA President has tried to take away the right of the USAsians to bear arms – and is still frustrated.

      To take away our sovereignty the Establishment would have to run a referendum to ask our permission to give away our sovereignty but before getting that far they would need our permission to run such a referendum.

      A Federal system need not be of states. For example the USA is a federation of States that forms one country. The United Kingdom is two Kingdoms that form one Kingdom but contains four countries while one of those Kingdoms contains three of those countries.

      Never mind that the Establishment has propaganda that confuses the terms, kingdom, country and state and that Britain is more than the UK ad Great Britain is just the biggest, (greatest), island of Britain. Yet yesterday the numptie that leads it inferred it was because it had quite another form of greatness.

      I believe both Eton & Oxbridge rather wrong in the things they teach these poorly educated numpties.

    387. liz says:

      HIGNFY agree with everything said. Used to love that program then my eyes opened during Indy ref – god what a learning process that was.

      Ian Hyslop is establishment through and through. He was a member of that club, Cameron was in, the pig one.

      He was given the job of pretend we have power over the establishment.

      There was a post on twitter yesterday where the person said, all this stuff over MT has made me decide to vote SNP x 2, so it’s not working with everyone.

      KMcK swings with the wind. Doesn’t matter he likes SLAB but it does when he joins in witch hunt against MT and misrepresents the state of PoliceS, NHS and education which he as done twice now in the Observer.

      Also on twitter had
      FrontFrot Pages state SNP splitting over cracking.
      When I asked for proof, got blocked

    388. Ruby says:

      Legerwood says:
      8 October, 2015 at 12:10 pm

      Valerie @12.07.

      Apologies accepted.

      Still on the Herald, I notice they are not allowing comments on the new poll which shows the SNP’s lead at 35% over Labour.

      My solution to that problem would be for ‘someone’ to set up an alternative site where you could comment on these stories just in the way Stu does it here.

      Although I would like to boycott ‘The Herald’ I do find the comments interesting or at least I did until their forum was hijacked by The Scotsman’s UniTrolls.

      I would be happy to donate if someone decided to carry out this idea! All monies saved from cancelling Herald subscriptions could go towards crowd funding new ‘Open for Comments’ website.

    389. Alastair says:

      Ruby- thanks for your reply.
      The media attempt to control and enslave our politics.
      Herald Political Awards – break the chains.

    390. Grouse Beater says:

      Polly Toynbee says of the BBC: “Only the BBC could give us Bake Off and Strictly. We must protect it.”

      There’s English concerns right there, way, way above Scotland’s rights and democratic deficiencies, poverty, soaring house prices, drowning refugees, and war.

      Cricket on the village green and warm beer really saps a person’s resolve to alter the world.

    391. mealer says:

      Latest poll shows Labour still attracting half the unionist vote.Pretty impressive and an endorsement of Kezias leadership.

    392. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill says: 8 October, 2015 at 10:53 am:

      “Under the UN Charter the Catalonian people have the absolute right to become independent if a majority ambition for it is legally established.”

      And just as the UN motions were ignored by the USA & UK by invading Iraq ad Russia Ignores them on a regular basis the UN is only as good as its members states work together.

      “It doesn’t matter what the Spanish constitution says the Catalonians do not have to ask Spanish permission to rule themselves. Nor does Scotland require UK assent or UK permission to organise referendums.

      Indeed but not for the same reasons.

      “Laws and constitutions are made to benefit those who make them. They rely on a majority being persuaded to accept them as sacrosanct.”

      Not really. There are very great differences between Laws and Constitutions. A legislation can make laws to suit themselves and enforce them against a majority but a constitution requires the consent of the majority.

      I already quoted how hard USA administrations have tried to alter the USA Constitution in regard to the right to bear arms.

      A law is only practically valid as long for as it has majority support. Laws and constitutions have changed all the time throughout history

    393. Grouse Beater says:

      Heedtracker: Capella – your “most won’t have seen” stuff is also rather tawdry deceit.

      The documentary does Salmond no favours, though he was not the man who invited Trump to buy a chunk of Scotland. But you’d never know that from the information provided. And yes, only recently I’ve become aware of references here to so called independence argument that turns out to be the opposite. Sometimes its healthier to pass by those posts and engage with others.

    394. David McDowell says:

      john king AT 8:07am and others

      Glad to see so many people here see through the propaganda of HIGNFY. Many people will instantly dismiss the idea that HIGNFY is propaganda. Nearly all of those people will say: “but I enjoy it”. In reality that is an uncritical, knee-jerk response, one which people fail to see has been programmed into them through years of laughing at the non-propaganda based jokes in the show. It’s like the old adage: “A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down!”

      There are several reasons for this apparent inability/unwillingness to see HIGNFY as propaganda.

      1. People really hate to admit they are being duped. We all like to think we are too smart to be fooled and the propaganda only works on other, stupid people, not us. Plus, it is scary to think someone else has any degree of outside control over how you form your opinions without our knowledge. It is much easier to say: “No, you are wrong. It isn’t propaganda”, which has the built-in reward that you can keep on watching it.

      2. The propaganda is very subtle. It’s not so much what they say directly, but what they choose to highlight and what they choose to ignore. Watch closely and you will see the “jokes” about Unionist politicians are always personalised, as in: “Oh what a loveable buffoon Boris, Gideon,(insert name here) is!” They rarely criticise Tory or Labour party policies, unless it is something truly “bonkers” that they can make obvious fun of.
      Meanwhile “jokes” about Scotland are always about stereotyping us as the “uppity” Jocks – to belittle us and keep us in our “place”. The “joke” is always that Scots are somehow inferior, stupid, poor, sullen, eating fried Mars bars, etc. They rarely, if ever, lampoon individually-named, pro-independence politicians. I think the one time they did was when some English villagers blew up an effigy of Salmond. The truly offensive message was partly “legitimised” by tut-tutting about “country people on torch and pitchfork monster hunts”.

      3. The propaganda message is “hidden” amongst a series of quick-fire ad-libs and hilarious characterisations. It is hard for the mind to suddenly switch from a laughing at an absurd statement to making a serious, rational judgement about a statement, especially since the propaganda is disguised as just another absurd statement amongst many others.

      4. Lastly, “satire” is a favourite tool of propagandists because, when people complain, they always have their cast-iron, catch-all, get-out: “It’s just a joke. Unlike we well-educated, worldly English, you dour peasants aren’t evolved enough to take a joke”. How many times have you heard that one?!

    395. Les Wilson says:

      Nana Smith says:

      Yes, she will certainly want to lay down after that Nana!
      Ha Ha Ha!

    396. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Ruby @ 12.11pm asked for my opinion on the Herald.

      I fear, the Herald might be beyond help. What we are seeing at the top of Renfield Street is the result of management getting it wrong.

      I may have written on here before, of the old Herald hand who insisted (this was some 10-15 years ago): “There are still just enough of us on the Herald who still care”.

      Today, with long-serving, EXPERIENCED, distinguished and talented Herald journalists queuing-up to take redundancy deals, my belief is, not enough staffers on the editorial floor still care enough to hang on. Staff morale has slumped, and, if enough staff don’t care, the paper is doomed.

      All my contemporaries, who are now retired, say the same thing: “Thank God I am out, the industry is finished”.

      “Kids” whom I helped initiate into the ways of the Fourth Estate 20-years ago, are now, experienced journalists in their forties, desperate to get out of a tainted trade.

      One former national newspaper Sports Editor of my acquaintance, who took a redundancy package last year, was quite blunt about why he left a job he had wanted all his life in the industry: “The paper I left was not the one I had joined”.

      It doesn’t help that so much of the production work, the sub-editing, is now done in Newport, Gwent – 300-odd miles from Glasgow, by journalists who don’t know the area, who don’t know the particular nuances of Scots Law for Journalists and who, most-importantly, have no experience or knowledge of the traditional Herald ethos.

      I blame the suits in management, rather than the journalists. There have always been Editors or departmental heads, who will produce a headline, then tell their journalists: “Now, go away and write the story to justify this”.

      This is the sort of bad journalism – a long-term tactic of the Daily Rancid, which I suspect, the Herald is increasingly and wrongly using.

    397. galamcennalath says:

      TNS poll shows SNP holding position.

      http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2015/oct/snp-retain-huge-lead-over-divided-labour

      http://www.tnsglobal.com/uk/snp-maintains-strong-lead-as-new-leaders-fail-to-boost-Labour-support

      However … “A sample of 1037 adults aged 16+ was interviewed across Scotland over the period 9th to 30th September 2015.” … which is before the CorpM stepped up their smearing.

      I own feeling is that the smearing will actually have little effect and if anything be counter productive for the Unionists.

      I also note the Greens on 5% on the list vote. Not eating into SNP+SNP.

    398. gus1940 says:

      While we are on the subject of HIGNFY/Ian Hyslop anybody who is a regular reader of Private Eye will be well aware that it follows the rest of the Metropolitan Media in being AntiSNP/Independence.

      Every fortnight there is at least one item attacking or mocking The SNP. One thing all said items have in common is the fact that any relationship the content may have with the truth is at best minimal and mostly non-existent.

      It would appear that whoever feeds The Eye with their Scottish News has the same acquaintance with the truth as the individuals in Labour’s NB Branch Office who feed Corbyn with his regular load of total bollocks regarding Scotlcotland.

    399. Robert Peffers says:

      @Socrates MacSporran says: 8 October, 2015 at 12:11 pm

      “Then Nicola ripped her a new one. Dippity Dug’s body language says it all: “We’re fucked”.”

      I waited with bated breath when Dugface spoke of the, “poor victims”, as I expected Nicola to hit her with the stone cold fact that far from being victims the former sellers pocketed a fair old profit and if there had been a victim, which there wasn’t, it would have been the mortgage lender but only if the new owners had run off with the money.

      So why did Nicola allow that stupid Dugdale away with playing the, “morally wrong to victimise the poor card”?

    400. Harry McAye says:

      David McDowell – to be fair to Ian Hislop, he had a right go at Cameron in the first of the new series. Can’t remember the exact words but it was along the lines of folk should forget about the pig stuff and criticise Cameron for things like the bedroom tax.

    401. mr thms says:

      The BBC are very controlling on their BBC Scotland Holyrood Live website.

      It does not give a very good account of the actual First Minister’s Q&A.

      Instead, it concentrates on very selective sound bites, the use of pre-prepared “Background: ??????” factoids to inform (influence?) and Twitter comments. (There was one each today, from Stephen Daisley and Euan McColm)

      Are they afraid?

    402. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I think Nicola is playing a sound game.

      I reckon she is not interrupting her enemy when that enemy is making mistakes.

      Dippity Dug, by concentrating her fire on events surrounding a former SNP member and former SNP MP (Thomson), has missed one or two possibly easier SNP targets.

      I expect flak for writing this, but, as even Andrew Tinkell (Lallands Peat Worrier) has pointed-out, Ian Smart did a very good dissection of the Thomson case.

      I believe Thomson HAS questions to answer. I have read the Law Society’s disciplinary committee’s findings and, having done so, I smell shite.

      As regards the particular case of the Wrights: given the differing figures quoted, the inconsistencies between the STV story and the various newspapers’ ones, there is a lot of mud to be cleaned-up before we get the true story.

      If any enquiries find against Thomson – the SNP has some shit to clean-up. If Thomson is given a clean bill of health, it’s Dippity Dug who is in trouble.

      Let’s wait and see – Dippity Dug cannot keep this thing going until the police investigation is over, the wheels of the law grind slowly after all.

      If Thomson is found guilty of wrong-doing, the victimising the poor angle will not matter. If Thomson is cleared, Dippity Dug will be left looking even stupider than we all think her to be.

    403. yesindyref2 says:

      @caz-m “Once he saw who was going to win, then that is side McKenna would head for.”

      I read all Mckenna 2-3 years ago, when he was going through his stage of realising Labour wasn’t the Labour he wanted or supported, and that definitely is unfair to him.

    404. Capella says:

      @ Valerie
      Thanks, I do know there is a moratorium in place pending a public consultation on fracking. What I said was that I hope our land and water are not sacrificed to corporate interests.

      I’m not part of any anti fracking group but I have heard that there is one forming in the SNP which will be at the Conference. I intend to check them out as well as the INEOS stall at the Conference.

      @ heedtracker
      I don’t agree with your assessment of the You’ve Been Trumped film. But you are entitled to your opinion.

    405. Craig P says:

      galamcennalath says:

      I have always been very against federal solutions (not that they will actually happen) because you would need a UK wide feral constitution and each state within that federation would have equal status. The make up of the U.K. Is not like that. Federation would diminish Scotland from being a country to a state. And with that would go our sovereign rights.

      I always assumed that this was what Gordon Brown was up to with his ‘guarantee devolution’ promise in The Vow. That yes, a change in law might make it impossible for Westminster to dissolve Holyrood without consent of the Scottish electorate, but as usual with Macavity, the *real* plan is hidden – to also make independence impossible without the consent of the British electorate.

    406. heedtracker says:

      only recently I’ve become aware of references here to so called independence argument that turns out to be the opposite. Sometimes its healthier to pass by those posts and engage with others.

      Have to agree to disagree here Grouse Beater:D

      WoS itself evolved from off the scale UKOK bullshitters, swamping their Scotland region with UKOK propaganda , but I could be wrong.

      Capella and co are merely silly side shows but who knows, from little UKOK acorns and all that jazz, eg

      https://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/author/conlawforum/

      Future Toryboy Scottish region First Minister, totally unelectable but standing for Holyrood list slot, Ljubjana West.

      Wonder what Prof Smirky has planned for his Scotland region, when he rises to UKOK power? Hang in there Capella.

    407. Brian Powell says:

      Harry McAye

      On the other hand a man who has sex with a pig’s head is running the Gov who decided to impose the bedroom tax. Quite important aspect to consider.

      And, as he was in the same dining club, looks like another is sitting on the panel of a topical ‘satirical’ panel.

    408. Lesley-Anne says:

      Let’s wait and see – Dippity Dug cannot keep this thing going until the police investigation is over, the wheels of the law grind slowly after all.

      Michelle Thompson’s lawyer, Aamer Anwar, sent out a letter last week in which he advised “certain individuals who should know better” that if they continued with their *ahem* attacks on MT then they were running the risk of prejudicing any future court case.

      Now I don’t know about you Scorates 😉 but to me that was a very definite warning to Dugdale and Davidson, both of whom have legal training backgrounds. 😀

    409. David McDowell says:

      Harry McAye at 1:16pm

      Of course they are careful to do something critical of policies occasionally because they’re not stupid. They know someone will always pop up to say “yes, but to be fair, don’t forget the time they criticised so and so…” etc.

      I am talking about the long-term, cumulative effect of subtle, repeated messages. That is how propaganda works. It’s too simplistic to single out one isolated, topical example and say “that wasn’t propaganda” as if that somehow “balances” out or nullifies all the other stuff that is.

      You’ve reminded me of another favourite BBC ploy. When criticised they say: “Well we are being criticised by both sides so we must be getting the balance about right.” This assumes people are too stupid to understand they might just be playing both sides down the middle.

      The brainwashing to defend them is so strong I knew when I wrote the above at least one person would jump to their defence. Most people don’t want to accuse other people unfairly. I understand that, but it’s a very feeble argument that in no way negates the truth that HIGNFY is propaganda. If you’re watching it, you’re being brainwashed. It’s not something under conscious control.

    410. David McDowell says:

      Lesley-Anne at 1:46pm

      Davidson doesn’t have a legal training background.

    411. orri says:

      An admittedly brief search for John Nicolson’s expenses shows that he claims not to receive any public funding for his London accommodation. https://archive.is/AKy8L

      Never the less as he’s only been an MP since the GE it remains to be seen whether he’s rented it out whilst being an MP.

      Personally I see little problem with MP’s having other jobs provided they remain focussed on their duties as MP and any conflict of interest is resolved in favour of that. A hardline approach is not going to work.

    412. Craig P says:

      Grouse Beater says:

      Polly Toynbee says of the BBC: “Only the BBC could give us Bake Off and Strictly. We must protect it.”

      Only the BBc could give us Neil Oliver. We must ding it doon.

    413. Ruby says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      8 October, 2015 at 12:41 pm

      Ruby @ 12.11pm asked for my opinion on the Herald.

      Cheers for that! Very interesting. I have read snippets from Nick Davies’ ‘Flat Earth News’ and he too seems to be pretty disillusioned with the world of ‘journalism’. If I remember correctly he uses the term churnalists to describe people who write for newspapers.

      What I was really looking for was ideas on how you could convince ‘hard core Unionists’ to vote SNP. Do you think stories about Unionist politicians refusing to sing ‘God Save the Queen’ would do the trick? What if they were starved of ‘Easy Reader SNP Bad’ stories do you think that would make any difference?

    414. Valerie says:

      @Capella, you harp on about the Ineos stall like it has some significance at the Conference. It doesn’t. A stall is sold to anyone as a commercial transaction to hire out space and maximise income.

      There is no say by SNP as to who buys floor space.

      There are over 30 anti fracking groups on FB. There is SMAUG,and the link was posted by Nana Smith.

      As an SNP member, I find it incredible that you undermine your party with this corporate interest crap, when all the actions to date by SNP in this and other matters is in the opposite direction.

      I am a member of SNP too, and since May, I’ve read a ton of similar comments. I’m a member, but they are a bit rubbish, I hope they aren’t like WM, blah,blah. Never providing any fact to back up the assertion.

      How can you call yourself a party member, and act like a concern troll? Can’t you raise your concerns at branch?

      Must you and other alleged members raise these nebulous concerns on the net?

    415. Lesley-Anne says:

      David McDowell says:
      8 October, 2015 at 2:03 pm

      Lesley-Anne at 1:46pm

      Davidson doesn’t have a legal training background.

      Oops, my mistake.

      I thought I had read somewhere last week she did, sorry folks guess I was wrong.

      Thanks for the correction David. 😉

    416. heedtracker says:

      @ heedtracker
      I don’t agree with your assessment of the You’ve Been Trumped film. But you are entitled to your opinion.

      Thanks very much. No response as to actual Tripping Trump stuff but heyho. Scottish voters are doing this you see Capella, asking stuff like

      Why is Ian Wood a multi billionaire in a city with foodbanks or why did I watch a C4 thing last night where a bloke what works for the NHS in London was selling his poking 2 bedroom London flat for £1.05 million and yet 2 bed room flats in Govanhill are going for £60k, if they move at all?

      That kind of UKOK bullshit Capella.

    417. Grouse Beater says:

      Heedtracker: “WoS itself has evolved from off the scale UKOK bullshitters, swamping their ‘Scotland region’ with UKOK propaganda”

      I tend to respond to the topic or what another poster has written rather than post personal opinion in a vacuum. And what I write is usually developing as I write it. And to pick up your baton – an odd thing happened the other day. A poster here who had hitherto written praise in my essay blog, posted a number of gratuitously snide remarks. No idea why. They came out the blue. I hadn’t engaged him in discussion. Rankled, I challenged and got the classic ‘how dare you’ response. Anyhow, you never know if the guy at the other end is an alcoholic exhibiting his dark side.

      As I said, it’s the topic that catches my attention then I look for posters I trust to offer sensible opinion, or factual information, or I simply post agreement with Wings polemic, or another’s opinion.

      Can’t think how we could survive without Wings. It’s the mill wheel that separates the wheat from the chaff.

      And on that subject, I heard Dugdale open FM QT today with yet another question about Michelle Thomson. Groan!

      Labour complain of the SNP besotted with independence, and yet we have Labour squandering energy and time trying to smear. Accusation is their entire political pantry.

      All that aside, hope life is better for you these days.

    418. Nana Smith says:

      Check out Peter Bell on the fracking piece in the herald

      http://www.scoop.it/t/politics-scotland

    419. Grouse Beater says:

      A new television series announced entitled “Disappearing Britain” – yes, another programme with ‘Britain’ in the title.

      Will the first in the series recorded as disappearing be … Scotland. 😉

    420. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers
      The think-tank (Bingham Centre):

      There should be English votes for English laws, according to the review, whose authors include Prof Sir Jeffrey Jowell QC, the centre director; the historian Prof Linda Colley; Prof Adam Tomkins, professor of public law at Glasgow University; and Prof Tony Travers, director of British government at the London School of Economics.

      Our old Labour Tory friend from North Britain, self-confessed Tory candidate in 2016.

    421. David McDowell says:

      Lesley-Anne at 2:09pm

      I read that too and decided to check.
      It is very easy to think Davidson is some kind of lawyer, because she looks like one and often adopts a mock-serious, scolding tone. However, she isn’t one and has never trained as one.

      She studied English literature at the University of Edinburgh gaining a Master of Arts (MA) degree. After graduation, she joined the Glenrothes Gazette as a trainee reporter.

      She later moved to Kingdom FM followed by Real Radio and finally joined BBC Scotland in late 2002 where she worked as a radio journalist, producer, presenter and reporter.

      She served as a Signaller in the Territorial Army for three years (2003–06) before suffering a back injury in a training exercise at Sandhurst.

      She left the BBC in 2009 to study International Development at the University of Glasgow, where she decided to join the Conservative Party.

      The rest, as they say, is travesty.

    422. Grouse Beater says:

      Craig: “Only the BBC could give us Neil Oliver. We must ding it doon.”

      🙂

    423. yesindyref2 says:

      TNS Poll Constituency SNP 56%, what’s great about the poll is that the list is at 52%, which means that if the SNP lose a constituency seat to Labour or Conservative (or even LibDems), their list divisor goes up to 2 to start the method, they almost certainly get one less list seat, and the SNP one more.

      It would mean on average the SNP should get 72 MSPs, plus or minus 1 or 2.

    424. Gary45% says:

      The picture of Ruthie the tank commander in the National today.
      The look on her face says it all, “A complete follow through” at the latest poll results.

    425. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thanks for that wee insight there David. 🙂

    426. handclapping says:

      That poll is stunning; Labour might not even manage a member for Morningside! Imagine not a single Labour Constituency MSP, only 27 pillocks off the list. If Dippity is wise she’ll tear up the rule book and have a free vote on who they want on their list whether they’re standing in a constituency or not.

      The SNP needs a credible opposition and Dippity, Ruthie and the other one are not. Though we may not have to worry about the other one any more if they slip a bit and the Greens gain a bit it could be LD 3 Green 9 and real problems for the BBC political programs 🙂

    427. yesindyref2 says:

      @Ruby says: “Why give oxygen to the Herald who will use the event to further their own agenda.
      Boycott !”

      Generally I agree, but they are getting provoked into even more extreme behaviour, and from what I see of the journos twitter feeds (?), they’re increasingly rattled by the Rev.

      Keep it up Rev. Won’t be long before they push the self-destruct button.

    428. Capella says:

      @ nana
      Thanks for Peter Bell link. Good response. Read with interest.

    429. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just in case folks didn’t know.

      That wee numptie, Trump, is going to the Supreme Court in London to try and get the off shore wind farm development off the Aberdeenshire coast stopped.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-34471449

      If this bampot wins today then there really is no justice left in the UK. Let’s face it the windfarm development plans were well advanced BEFORE this eejit even got passed the planning stage for his wee stick and ball park!

      The bugger KNEW the windfarm was going on BEFORE he started his stick and ball park so surely if the Supreme Court have even the slightest idea of justice they will throw his case out!

    430. caz-m says:

      galamcennalath 12.45pm

      Thanks for the links.

      SNP Website:

      The TNS poll of Scottish Parliament voting intentions puts SNP support at 56 per cent – 35 points ahead of Labour whose support has fallen to 21 per cent.

      Gon yur sel Nicola.

    431. Ruby says:

      http://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/feb/23/churnalism-pr-media-trust

      Churnalism or news?

      The video is brilliant! The penazzle and the chasity garter!!!!!

    432. Tinto Chiel says:

      Grouse Beater@2.15.

      The poster who who wrote complimentary remarks on your blog was me, and I have enjoyed both your posts and blogs. I admit I was somewhat rankled myself by your inability to use my monicker properly, which I couldn’t understand.

      This isn’t your site and I’m happy for the Rev to do any challenging that is required.

      As for the various personal remarks directed at me, as I said before, physician heal thyself.

    433. Grouse Beater says:

      An alert reader spotted a past essay predicting Michelle Thomson is a marked person of interest by GCHQ (Para Angry Man 4) and thinks I should update it:-

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2015/08/23/still-angry/

    434. Sassenach says:

      Just watched FMQs and was impressed (once again) by how the FM swatted Kezia aside ( it really is ‘no contest’ every week!!).

      But she saved the best for last with her treatment of Murdo Fraser (and his question about underspend) – ably helped by John Swinney, from a sedentary position saying “They are fiscally illiterate”. Even the Presiding Officer could barely conceal a smile as she was forced to admonish the Deputy FM!

    435. Nana Smith says:

      @Capella Save the link so you can check out more of Mr Bell’s posts.

      @Lesley-Anne

      Trump is a buffoon much like Boris. I sometimes wonder if they were separated at birth Plus they are both full of wind!

      Spotted this yesterday…

      Wind power is now the cheapest electricity to produce in the UK

      https://archive.is/m0dAj

    436. yesindyref2 says:

      @Socrates MacSporran (about Herald)
      I kind of clung on for a time. After the Ref it was easy, it was soon obvious the SNP were going to go berserk, and any little I could do to help to fight the slant was worth it.

      Even during the Ref and GE, but particularly after the GE, I could see the odd sign that the journos were trying a bit to be balanced, and tried to encourage them with “sensible” comments. Lately that’s become impossible, and I doubt if Walker was the only one going for the redundancy package with a “yes please”.

      Gwent in Wales? In Wales they’ve got a half-decent Labour party, has been known to stand up for Wales, and perhaps that’s a factor as well.

      It’s very sad to see the Herald decline and though it does need to go, it will give me no satisfaction. In its own way it was a clarion for Scotland for many years.

    437. Ruby says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      8 October, 2015 at 2:30 pm

      @Ruby says: “Why give oxygen to the Herald who will use the event to further their own agenda.
      Boycott !”

      Not guilty! My suggestion was have a good laugh at ‘The Herald’

      Having watched the video about ‘churnalism’ I’m thinking it might be a good idea to create some ‘press releases’

    438. scotspine says:

      @ handclapping

      “it could be LD 3 Green 9 and real problems for the BBC political programs”

      Come on…If SNP sweep the board next year, The BBC and all who fly in it will continue fanatically like Kamikaze pilots, shouting Banzai (Labour) as they spiral faster and faster into the ocean, falling short of their divine mission, but believing in it right up until their futile but inevitable end……

    439. Grouse Beater says:

      “The poster who who wrote complimentary remarks on your blog was me, and I have enjoyed both your posts and blogs.”

      Sorry, I’m discussing an issue with Heedtracker.

    440. Grouse Beater says:

      Nana: “Trump is a buffoon much like Boris.”

      Yes, he’s a perennial embarrassment.

      That’s how he’s seen by a cross section of American society, but by borrowing from banks he has made himself rich. In my experience, it’s almost impossible to insult somebody who’s stinking rich, who boasts of billions in the bank.

      Trump is a salutary warning to all political parties not to sell off their nation’s land to foreign companies and expect them to be terribly grateful or respectful.

    441. National Poem Day

      Beware of a Tory,
      Ambition so gory;
      Nepotism & greed,
      So the poor they shall feed

      Not nourishment or hope
      But to hang with a rope
      Scruffy collars so thin
      To guarantee they will win

      The battle of minds
      Hearts, spirits & souls
      To maintain their command
      Over peoples & land

      Grubby snouts in the trough,
      Establishment power such has gripped them,
      Lords, ladies & gentlemen,
      I give you Great Britain.

    442. Al-Stuart says:

      Hi Alan,

      Apologies, there is no mixup between Scotsman and Herald. I should have made it clearer in my post.

      By quoting Douglas Fraser I was endeavouring to highlight that the whole of the Scottish national newspaper scene is going down the circulation toilet – Scotsman and Herald included. Excepting of course the Sunday Herald.

      Best.

      Al Stuart

      ——————

      Alan Mackintosh says: 8 October, 2015 at 7:30 am
      Al Stuart, think you’re getting your Hootsmon and your Heralds mixed up there. Herald is in Newsquest stable and Hootsmon is with Johnstone Press.

    443. Lesley-Anne says:

      With regards Trump the Mump Nana you are 100% correct. 😀

      Yes I saw that yesterday as well about wind farms being the cheapest producers of electricity. Kind of makes you wonder why the Hambone is so enthralled with nuclear power. Oh wait a minute he isn’t really enthralled with nuclear he just keeps getting oinked off to the side by Miss Piggy. 😀

    444. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I thought the Herald came out (Last minute right enough)and supported Independence.
      Could do without “support” like that.”

      No, it didn’t.

    445. yesindyref2 says:

      @Valerie
      I don’t agree with everything the SNP do, and have my concerns as well. As a new member last September I fully intended being a bull in a china shop and pushing amendments, resolutions, whatever needed, even trying to be a delegate, getting changes where needed.

      I’ve only been to 3 or 4 branch meetings, too busy, but what I find is that the members there voice their concerns, and if supported or pertinent, the branch pass it up.

      Well, that’s interaction and democracy and it means I can sit on my butt and just watch 🙂

      Yes, if Ineos pay the money, then take it. Whatever about fracking, their other activities are contributing to Scotland’s economy, jobs, GDP, in a legal fashion. And in a democracy, the frackers are just as entitled to air their views as the anti-frackers. Perhaps the end result will be healthy, environmentally friendly or neutral, fracking – or not. The case hasn’t been proven yet, either way.

    446. yesindyref2 says:

      @Ruby
      Sorry, careless of me, yes you were quoting Alastair.

    447. Valerie says:

      @indyref 2

      And your experience of your branch is the same as my branch experience.

      My point is, as a SNP member, you surely don’t join a team to continually rubbish them in public – the channels are there to be utilised. I don’t agree with everything 100%, but I’m not going to give their army of critics more ammunition.

      I would leave if I can’t rub along with the majority, and I can critique at will.

      I simply can’t understand party members posting such unsubstantiated moaning on a widely read forum.

      Do SNP not have enough detractors, then?

      Someone on here recently said, we fight enough among ourselves even without unionists. Such a pity it’s true.

    448. yesindyref2 says:

      @Valerie
      That’s one way of looking at it, and it’s a fair point of view.

      Mine is different, and that is that it shows “neutral” onlookers that we’re not sheep, not vegetables, we don’t take orders from “high command”, and that we’re capable of thinking for ourselves. We’re also capable of having different opinions from the majority, but still supporting the party as a whole.

      In other words, open democracy.

    449. Valerie says:

      @indyref2

      Members of the party surely know we are not sheep, as shown by our experience of branch meetings?

      I’d like to see someone join a football team and tripping team mates as they head for goal, citing I don’t like how you were running just now, and felt a need to let the crowd know I’m not a sheep.

      The branch meetings, and all the variety of contacts SNP provide give ample opportunity to communicate your displeasure. I can speak to my MP or MSP very easily in a large branch.

      Why do I pay a sub to have fellow party members take the team down on social media?

      Why is there a need to tell the world wide web you are not a vegetable, by adding to the bleating of the Unionists?

    450. Ken500 says:

      There was a Trump Inquiry forced by the Greens. (£Millions) The Reporter made the decision that the Trump Development could go ahead and the houses could be built only to mitigate the cost. Trump is wasting money with these appeals. The wind farm is 10 miles away and hardly visible.

      The Greens also wasted £Millions of public money and delays protesting against the AWPR, and the expansion of the Airport. Shutting it down in one campaign, when protesters came from Glasgow. The AWPR protest was supported and funded by feudal landowners. Martin Ford was writing to the British Geological Society to gain SSI status for the Menie Estate, illegally using insider confidential Council knowledge. The SSI at Menie was for rare plants – ‘Lizard Tongue’ ? No one had ever heard about.

      The Greens were also involved in the campaign to stop the UTGP and refuse a Gift of £80Million to pedestrianise the City. Unionists and a Green vote decided to build a unpopular carbuncle instead which will cost £Millions leased back for thirty years. PPI. They spent £33Million to renovate an Art Gallery. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

      The Trump Development was supported 9 to 1, by all other Political Parties, tourist and business organisations and brings in business from all over the world. Golfing holidays have increased since the Golf Development was opened. Most of the Hotels were occupied by the Oil sector, so any diversification is an advantage.

      Scotland is half empty. There will be places where it is safe to frack and places where it won’t.

    451. Rock says:

      Onwards,

      “Harry McAye says:
      Rock – you or I have no way of knowing the demographics of the National sales but having it on the newsstand is surely a huge plus.
      ———-

      @Harry, he won’t answer that point. It has been pointed out plenty of times.”

      It has already been answered but the gullible likes of yourself and other cheerleaders of The National don’t want to accept the truth:

      “It is not rocket science to conclude that if 45% voted for independence and only 20,000 are buying The National, the vast majority of them would be those already converted to the cause.”

      Why doesn’t The National publish the sort of terrific articles that the Rev. Stuart Campbell does?

      If they can’t do it, they can always pay the Rev. a fee to use them.

      Don’t complain about the Herald if you keep it alive by buying the National and Sunday Herald.

    452. Gary45% says:

      Graham HarrisGraham@3.06
      You could also add,
      With lies and deceit,
      and an establishment so bitter,
      is one of the reasons,
      the UK is going down the shi**er

    453. yesindyref2 says:

      @Valerie
      Yes, dissent at branch meetings shows we’re not sheep, but many even of the SNP members don’t go to the meetings. Mine must be less than 10% from the figures given, though others seem to be more attended, but the overall figure must be less than 50%, 25% even. The SNP should want to hold on to its current membership, some of whom are largely single interest and hold a wide variety of views on other issues.

      And apart from that, 95% of the population don’t belong to any party, but still vote. We’re showing in public that we can think for ourselves, the same as they can.

    454. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Valerie.

      You typed,
      Someone on here recently said, we fight enough among ourselves even without unionists. Such a pity it’s true.

      A pal of mine, a long-time SNP activist, emigrated to Canada, in disgust, after the 1979 referendum pochle.

      His favourite saying is along the lines of the quote above:
      “Scots would argue about the colour of $hite…”

    455. Rock says:

      mr thms,

      “#Robert Peffers

      “For example, as the people are sovereign, we Scots have always had the legal right to hold a referendum.””

      Robert Peffers is like a dog barking at the moon.

      Can he name a single SNP MP or MSP who is on the record for saying something like that.

      What was the procedure for holding a referendum during the 285 years before the Scottish parliament was reconvened? What “sovereinty” did we have then.

      Despite Robert Peffers’ nonsense, the Scots have no procedure whatsoever for deciding who their King or Queen is.

      The only “sovereignty” the Scots have is electing a parliament with very limited powers.

      And that for less than 20 years only.

      Legally, we can’t do anything without the Westminster parliament approving it.

      And our 56 SNP MPs have a fat chance of getting anything approved at Westminster.

      Our justice system is rotten to the core.

      “Sovereign” my foot.

    456. Rock says:

      gerry parker,

      “And we read it for Stu’s excellent forensic analysis of current MSN output.

      I’m sure he will consider your advice, but if he took that route then the Corporate Media would then just say he was muck – raking.”

      Yes the pot is famous for calling the kettle black!

    457. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      “Under the UN Charter the Catalonian people have the absolute right to become independent if a majority ambition for it is legally established.”

      What rights do the Kurds have under the UN Charter?

      Why haven’t they be able to exercise them?

      What does the UN Charter say about leaders who take their countries into wars which have been declared illegal by the UN?

      Like all establishments, the UN is a sham. It can only listen to brute power.

    458. yesindyref2 says:

      @Rock
      Robert Peffers is right. But the legality of the Scottish Government calling a referendum could be challenged in court. The determining factor may well be Axa.

      http://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2012/01/31/gavin-anderson-et-al-the-independence-referendum-legality-and-the-contested-constitution-widening-the-debate/

      http://www.scottishconstitutionalfutures.org/OpinionandAnalysis/ViewBlogPost/tabid/1767/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/340/Aileen-McHarg-The-Referendum-Memorandum-of-Agreement-and-Draft-Section-30-Order.aspx

      So as to get past Rev’s 2 link quota, arguments on the other side in the next posting.

    459. yesindyref2 says:

      @Rock – part 2

      These are the “unionist” arguments, similar to yours:

      http://ukscblog.com/now-were-talking-about-the-scottish-referendum/

      https://devolutionmatters.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/scottish-independence-referendum-developments/

      My view is exactly the same as Robert’s, and the fact Scotland has our own Law supports that. in my opinion.

      Ultimately the path of least resistance was the S30 Order to the Scotland Act, and the Edinburgh agreement.

    460. Rock says:

      yesindyref2,

      “@Rock
      Robert Peffers is right.”

      If Robert Peffers is right, can either of you quote one SNP MP or MSP who has said that?

      In practice, the only “sovereignty” the Scots have is electing the limited powers Scottish parliament, and even that for less than 20 years.

      As for Scotland’s laws, the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core.

      It is run by freemasons whose only purpose is the protect the UK establishment.

      Even in theory, “sovereign” Scots are the members of the establishment, not plebs like you and me.

      Any rights we have now, including voting, come from laws passed by the “sovereign” UK parliament.

      You can pretend whatever you like, we cannot hold a legally binding referendum without the UK parliament approving it.

      And we have no means of choosing a monarch.

    461. yesindyref2 says:

      @Rock
      Click on the links and read the articles.

    462. Dorothy Devine says:

      Hey , I was asked by a charming , well spoken mannie if I was willing to answer a short poll on VOTING intentions – not how many tellies I owned , not what soap powder I used or any other puerile piece of polling but how I intend voting in the Holyrood elections , how I voted in the GE ,how I voted in the referendum and how I would vote if there was another.

      He thanked me for my time and asked if at some future point if he could ask me again just in case I changed my mind – I told him there was no point as I would never change my mind.

      Having been on yougov’s list and only ever asked drivel it made a welcome change.

    463. Dorothy Devine says:

      Getting a duplicate message when I haven’t posted .

    464. Sandy Henderson says:

      I don’t know how much power our Government (Scottish) has over the press but couldn’t a bill be presented to the Government requiring EVERY article proved wrong be admitted by publishing an apology on the FRONT PAGE.
      After all, LIARS are usually despised people (not white lies) & the judiciary usually incarcerates them (known as purjury).
      There again, come straight out of jail, take your place in society (HoL), & hope to hell you won’t be caught out again.

    465. p.paterson says:

      Todays Daily(labour mouthpiece)Record is an absolute disgrace. Never let the truth get in the way of a story applies as regards Michelle Thomson Ifs buts and utter rubbish Should she ever go to court how would she get a FAIR trial after all this. The ESTABLISHMENT are obviously worried and scraping the bottom of the barrel. To trot out good old Gordy in a way is laughable considering his term as chancellor and pm.

    466. Grouse Beater says:

      Paterson: Today’s Daily Record is an absolute disgrace. Never let the truth get in the way of a story applies as regards Michelle Thomson

      More here: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-2a4

    467. Grouse Beater says:

      Edinburgh-born Angus Deaton (No! Not that one – he’s spelt ‘Deayton’) awarded Nobel Prize for Economic Science.

      From now on regard him as a great ‘Brit’.)

      “What we are seeing now is the result of hundreds of years of unequal development in the rich world, which has left a lot of the world behind. Those people who have been left behind want a better life, and that puts enormous pressure on the boundaries between the poor world and the rich.” Deaton



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