The Imperial Master
Posted on
April 09, 2015 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
It’s worth reminding yourself before you watch this clip from BBC News this morning that the gentleman at the lectern isn’t some rabid Daily Mail columnist, but is in fact the Secretary of State for Defence, Michael Fallon.
The “SPACE MONSTERS!” rationale for foreign policy. Who saw that one coming?
Fear is the biggest weapon political elites use to keep an electorate under control. We have to see through this kind of scaremongering.
[…] It’s worth reminding yourself before you watch this clip from BBC News this morning that the gentleman at the lectern isn’t some rabid Daily Mail columnist, but is in fact the Secretary of State for Defence, Michael Fallon. […]
@ 1:47 in. Faslane is the is the biggest employer in Scotland. WTF?
They just can’t help themselves, let them off the leash and this is the quality of politician we have in this country. Quite scary, but its another reason why our country is off its rails and flying down the hill about to crash and crush our future.
All those conflicts he mentions yet not one of them prevented by having nuclear weapons.
I’m genuinely speechless. This whole interview could have been shortened to “Trident or apocalypse? You choose.”
Fallon seems to believe that having nuclear weapons is a defence against ISIS and Boko Harum?…
“Faslane Peace Camp”…theres your T-Shirt there kids
All we needed was Black’s “Wonderful Life” playing softly in the background
So they’re going Trident nuke the middle east and north Africa now, or what’s left after teamGB foreign policy more or less destroyed so much of it. They really are maniacs,”not only is Faslane the biggest employer in Scotland” at 1.42? Thanks again proud Scot buts.
Back later, just going to get some gun turrets installed around my house. You know, just in case something happens in the future. Better get my bunker updated too while I am at.
I know how to stop threats from “foreigners”.
Stop invading their f*****g countries!
The entire speech is so wrong on every imaginable level. Hard to imagine but this will be seen as a vote winner by the Tories. What a shower of deluded loonatics! But I guess some of their support will be overjoyed. (Bangs head on keyboard)
“Our ultimate insurance policy”, just sums the whole thing up really. We may well all die in screaming agony, but at least we can take some other poor bastards with us.
I think he maybe actually believes that. It really is quite astonishing that he believes a case can be made to renew based on defence needs. Yes, there is s strong one that can be made based on ego and wanting to pretend we’re one of the big boys. But on defence needs …..!?
Whee to even start with this?
Michael Fallon epitomises all that is wrong with Westminster politics – an arrogant authoritarian grey man in a grey suit.
Scotland is a “rogue state”? Here’s me thinking that we were a greatly valued member of the wonderful family of nations that make up the Inited Kingdom – how devastating to see how we are really perceived when we don’t do as we are told!
And Faslane Scotland’s biggest employer? Here’s me thinking it was Tesco – well according to Google it is and the NHS and Scottish government the biggest public sector employer.
Let’s get as many SNP MPs down there to shake them up!
Especially female ones! Far too many grey men in grey suits dominating Westminster politics for my liking!
So we now just don’t need just one nuclear submarine, we need four…
Has anyone threatened to invade or attack or Nuke The Republic of Ireland lately?
Does The Republic of Ireland have an “Independent” Nuclear insurance like we do?
I keep alligators in my orchard to keep the elephants out of the cherry trees, look it works, there are no elephants nesting in the branches.
It isn’t independent and it isn’t a deterrent and is he suggesting we nuke ISIS there? or maybe the ‘separatists’ in Scotland?
This kind of speech is more likely to take us into danger than anything else, how irresponsible is the UK government?
I feel sorry for ALL those countries without nukes that are currently being blackmailed…Lets’ lost them here..
….
Oh…
I thought there were no employers in Scotland?
Peace camp and WMD in the same sentence – who would have thought….
“Continuous Posture”
Says it all really
I am so sick of these people playing with us.
People are starving in our beloved Union while we spend billions on Trident!
For those of us who are self employed, I wonder if we could organise sending our Tax cheques to Holyrood instead?
I have heard that you can withhold 6% (the amount used for military spending apparently) and send your Tax cheque for this amount to specific government departments.
Any thoughts from the more knowledgeable Wingers?
Labour up in arms about Fallon’s “smear” on Ed.
Hell mend you Ed.
It’s MAD – Mutually Assured Destruction – for the Tory Party.
Stan, you beat me to making the exact same point. Putin was not and is not deterred one jot by our nuclear deterrent, or France’s or the United States’ nukes either. He calculated, correctly that NATO would not fight for Crimea or the Eastern Ukraine. Every day that calculation is proving correct.
What is the use of such weapons if they do not deter aggressive action?
Also by definition any ‘rogue state’ stupid enough to fire a nuclear missile is not going to be deterred by anything. Our missiles are in any case just a minor ‘up yours’ message after the UK has been made a nuclear slag heap anyway.
The only thing he got right was (at 7:46) “4 submarines are required to maintain this continuous posture”.
It’s just a pity that the UK didn’t have a nuclear deterrent to ‘deter’ the terrorists that carried out the London Tube bombings, or that the USA didn’t have one to ‘deter’ the attacks on the twin towers in New York!
Oh, wait a sec….
That folks is why they are so fuckin dangerous.
They list ISIS as a security threat that requires nukes.
Seriously…… We are going to launch nuclear missiles at terrorists !!!!
Where the actual fuck do we aim them at. ??????
The modern threat is terrorisim.
We need stronger border control, better intelligence and a real dose of charity begins at home.
Well all those Spaniards, Greeks, Norewegians etc. who dont have nuclear weapons will struggle to get some sleep tonight. I bet they never realised just how vulnerable they are and have been for so long!
Im so glad my tax money is now being spent filling the pockets of arms manufacturers instead of feeding the hungry or comforting the sick. Gives me a warm glow inside.
He cites there being 17,000 nuclear weapons in the world. According to this report http://www.businessinsider.com/nine-nations-have-nukes–heres-how-many-each-country-has-2014-6?IR=T friends and allies of the UK have the vast majority of those.
Grand coalition anyone ?
Game changer
Time to get away from these,undemocratic,corrupt,abusive fear mongerers,
The case for an Independant Scotland has never been so perfectly delivered.
Like them or loathe them, don’t think anyone would disagree that North Korea is a more stable state than the UK. We have nationalists after all!
Us: These countries have nuclear weapons, aren’t they evil!
Them: But you have nuclear weapons…
Us: These countries have nuclear weapons, aren’t they REALLY evil!
Hypocrits the lot of them.
@ 5:30 in he mentiones Britain, then lists also Northern Ireland. Yet more proof that Westminster do not actually know who they govern over, let alone what they do …
Maybe it is just semantics, but I would expect a Secretary of State to get simple facts correct.
Even his list of teamGB enemies they will nuke is insane. How many Trident nukes would it take to vaporise IS in Iraq and Siria’s deserts and their destroyed cities and towns or incinerate Boko Haram fighters in the Nigerian bush?
So this bizarre man and his fellow red and blue tory chums decide teamGB is going to nuke Moscow, St Petersburg, Kiev even, how will that end for teamGB?
This has to be the disgraceful BBC display of tory boy world power since this morning.
Now do you see the connection between Ruth Davidson’s direct questioning of Nicola last night on the Nuke red line issue? The first unequivocal answer seemed to confuse her so Nicola had to explain it again. It all made sense when Fallon got up to speak today. Ruthie’s strings pulled, Nicola on record, job done.
Confirmation that Scotland is an occupied country.
The NHS is the biggest employer in Scotland. It save lives.
Trident is an abomination to everything that Scotland wants to be.
Lets get rid of the Tories and Trident for good.
Whilst is is comical to talk about using a cold war era nuclear deterrent to rescue school kids kidnapped by Boko Harum – there is an equal idiocy in assuming the same basic, expensive and monolithic technology would be meaningful in any conflict conducted in, say 2040. Apart from the general horror of nuclear weapons they are the opposite of agile from a strategic perspective.
‘Including Scotland’
No question who the speech and live broadcast was aimed at.
I want him to also include in his manifesto a promise that alongside their commitment to renew trident they will also relocate the submarines south of the border, hopefully in his back garden!!!!!!!!
With 17000 nuclear warheads floating around, he failed to tell us who they mostly belonged to, which makes our tiny submarine fleet kind of surplus to requirements. Add to that the thousands that were never decommissioned by our friends across the pond during the SALT agreement, and our contribution appears to be a purely financial arrangement.
As The Man in the Jar said, perhaps reviewing our foreign policy might help
More, of this…
link to tinyurl.com
Chillin on the beach.
Gave up at Faslane being UK biggest peace camp
Fear fear fear. Sick of it.
If uk build these weapons instead of showing some true leadership and disarm it will be a victory for fear.
If they’re so worried about the security of the UK, perhaps they should have a good long think about the way they treat their ‘equal partners’ within the UK.
The utter contempt they’ve shown for us over the years has been a major factor in what’s driving us apart.
They will be the masters of their own downfall.
I’m incredulous. This muppet fails to explain how four subs + nukes are going to protect us from any of the terrorist groups he mentioned. He fails to explain how South Korea, which, the last time I looked was attached to North Korea, not only manages to get by sans nukes, but refuses to allow the Yanks to station any of theirs there.
What an arrogant, condescending imperialist. Thank you, No voters. Thank you, Proudscotbuts. But for you we would be on our way to being free of this sort of pish. For all time.
Wait, hang on. I’m a reasonable sort of guy, Mikey boy. I’d be prepared to let you keep your f###ing subs and waste money on new ones providing you station them somewhere in the Thames estuary, say around Gravesend. Can’t say fairer than that.
Faslane is the biggest employer in Scotland……not! link to nuclearinfo.org
When we were in danger of voting yes all manner of companies were going to pull out of Scotland and move to England. Didn’t here the Minister of Sinister threatening to pull the nuclear fleet…….oh right, that would have been a vote winner for yes. If they love it so much move it to the Thames or try Liverpool and see how you get on. I know it wouldn’t fix the nuclear problem but it would fix their game!
I see his kind of determination and blinkered argument as insulting to all the other countries and our allies who do not have nuclear weapons, he’s saying that they’re all reckless for not having the “ultimate deterrent”!
I find his type scary, I could imagine him coming onto talk to the nation and saying “we had no alternative but to nuc Buenos Aires to stop Argentina invading the Falklands, we had to do it to stop a war”.
Arrogance ?? Reminds of the mindset in the film ‘Deadzone’
Scots born BritNat who hates idea of Scotland denounces democratic rights of people and perfers big brother ‘project fear’ politics
Seems like they are rattled in the south. Something they know and we don’t ? Sounds like the Niki leak didn’t work so now onto plan B
From the Wikipedia page on UK Trident: “The process by which a Trident submarine would determine whether the British government continues to function includes, amongst other checks, establishing whether BBC Radio 4 continues broadcasting”.
Fuck! Don’t let Naughtie fall silent for too long.
‘Keeping Britain safe…’
Is as far as I got.
I think the new Southern General will knock Faslane into a cocked hat as biggest employer and a damned sight more useful too.
If they hadn’t played silly bu99ers with our referendum, then independence negotiations would be well advanced. Presumably if rUK wished to continue with WMD, plans for the operation of present and future systems from rUK soil would be underway.
But they wanted to retain a bigger UK including we Scots. Due democratic process of all of the UK will now dictate future defence planning. This is just another case of ‘get back in your box, Jocks’.
Of course, his view may well be the prevalent view of government post GE, either with a Con-LibDem alliance or Con-Lab alliance. WMD may indeed continue.
However these BritNats, obsessed with world standing and prestige, may have to accept another defence path with Lab-SNP.
They really hate democracy.
See, the thing that gets me most about this is the ridiculous screaming if you suggest that other schemes might be better. We are led to believe that the only potential military tactic is Trident or being invaded and over-run. It’s just another attempt at shutting down debate.
As austerity is lauded as ‘the only way’ in economic matters, Trident is there ‘TINA’ in military concerns. No nuance allowed, if you don’t support Trident, you MUST be a pacifist.
In fact, people who don’t approve of Trident are a broad spectrum and will include pacifists, but also people who believe that security would be best met through other means. Black and white politics, as presented by Fallon here, will no longer do. Just go away.
Hear the leather strap tightening ?
Or is that just Labour – closing ranks over TRIDENT
If Tories and Labour want Trident then between them they can just vote it through and there’s nothing the SNP can do about it so Scottish votes won’t matter!
It’s worth recalling the first nuclear strike by America on Japan on 6th August 1945.
It wasn’t quite the deterrent they had hoped for. Decoded messages revealed that Japan had no intention of surrendering, even with the full knowledge that America had at least two or three more nuclear weapons.
So the Americans had to drop another one, three days later on the city of Nagasaki.
Meanwhile, I cannot recall a single plane hijacking, hotel bombing or gun massacre attributed to any terrorist organisation that has been delayed, modified or cancelled because Britain had a submarine armed with first strike capability nuclear weapons.
Finally, if Russia were bold enough to drop a nuclear bomb on Ukraine or Poland or Finland, does anyone really believe that Britain or the other nuclear armed countries in Nato would retaliate with their own nuclear response?
Jesus Christ. This idiot thinks that nukes are a defense against terrorists.
That speech could easily have been delivered by Creepy Jim.
I have to say that as an English person supporting indy for Scotland I couldn’t even listen to the full speech. It is such utter rubbish & clearly SNP is swaying public opinion on Trident. Halleluja & about time.
Russia-subverting democracy-WTF? UK & USA have done more to subvert democracy than any government on earth.UK has been involved in 177 wars throughout the ages.
UK parties are now ‘subverting democracy’ by lying to the electorate. They call this UK’s independent nuclear deterrant. It does not belong to UK but we pay for it. USA controls it-we don’t even have the codes needed to use it. USA holds them & decides if it is to be used. We would be the last to find out it has been used & by that point it’s too late for us because any agressor would have hit back at us.
It is not a deterrant-it is part of the Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)system and is not a usable defence to any of the threats facing us today.
Biggest employer in Scotland-oh Scotland I never thought things were so bad businesswise that you had no businesses employing more than 520 people. Yes folks-520. All the other people on the site are drafted in from MOD, Navy, Barrow-in-Furness (engineers) & other govt departments & the vast majority go home at weekends to other parts of the UK so they aren’t even contributing to the local economy.
I gave up after Faslane Peace Camp rubbish-couldn’t watch any more crap from him.
It’s propaganda like this that makes me support indy because the UK government lies to us all the time just to maintain their power, wealth & position over us.
Unfortunately, too many people in England,Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland have still not had their eyes opened to what is really happening in UK. They are doing all they can to try to persuade us not to think for ourselves, telling us who to vote for or creating the circumstances which make people think it isn’t worth voting because we can’t change anything.
Well, we can change things-Scotland is showing the way to the rest of UK & UKOK is running scared of it’s impact on public opinion throughout these isles. We are now talking about possibilities which would never have been spoken of before but they do want to shut us up. This is now their imperative. Protecting their hegemony is everything.
Nicola-you are doing a wonderful job-please don’t let up on the pressure. They are feeling it & don’t like it. 🙂
My first reaction was that the NHS was by far the largest employer, even Police Scotland at 17,000 plus exceeds even JaBa’s figures.
The 4 new subs is just the thin end of the wedge. Sooner or later the weapon systems will need to be upgraded or replaced. How much will that cost or is it a freeby from the Septics?
The Arab Spring is a cancer is it. What a walloper!
Two significant employment areas in Scotland are often misrepresented.
a)The Offshore Oil & Gas Industry. I currently work with people from Scotland / England / Wales / Poland / South America / Spain & America. The impact of cutbacks is painful but it does not not all impact on Scotland. The cash is spent in all of these other areas when people go on leave. The current impact projections are a distortion.
As regard the onshore side (Aberdeen). Many of those working Monday to Friday only have small rented flats or digs and the bulk of their spend is at home (outside Scotland). The inflated air travel costs of operators would probably impact a few airlines. Aberdeen would be hit but a very localised effect.
b) Faslane in relation to the Oil & Gas industry is small. However it has strong comparisons. The bulk of personnel live on the site in provided digs and send their money home. In this case the bulk of employees live in England and spent very little locally. The local employees are probably measured in the hundreds.
Two industries that CANNOT have the normal measure of financial impact assessment applied.
A shipyard / chemical plant / steel work / coal mine or power station employees local people, who spend their money in local shops, who go to local bars and restaurants etc.
We lost our original industries and the examples above show that the new ones have benefited a few Scots (hands up)but they do not benefit Scotland.
…..the speech. As regards the threats justifying Trident. When would it ever be used? If IS could somehow threaten the UK from an area they took over would we nuke that nation. IS grab land across borders – would we nuke all of them? If they came to power in a nation next to Israel would we use our bomb and hope that the people of Israel disn’t mind a bit of fallout? Why didn’t we use it against Argentina and save hundreds of UK lives and the cost of a war – because we would have been outcasts of the developed world.
Time for some new thinking.
Pure electioneering using good old fashioned
‘scare the shit out of the voters’ tactics.
However, what Michael Fallon really means is:-
The South East of England and London is where most
of Britain’s extremely wealthy Tory voters,
donors and supporters live.
These people have enormous power and influence,
as well as money and property
which they do not wish to lose,
so they must have a very robust National security system.
That means nuclear submarines.
But because they themselves,
in spite of their vast wealth,
do not want to pay for these weapons,
they have decided that the poor of the land
should be asked to foot the bill.
In addition, the very wealthy do not like the idea
of these same nuclear weapons
being near to where they live.
So, they have to be based and stored
as far away as possible from them,
preferably in Scotland.
Unfortunately, the best spot is only
30 miles from Scotland’s biggest city
with over a million residents
and another 2 million close by – but then, let’s face it,
they don’t count for anything down south.
Of course, these weapons are for the security
of everyone in the UK – but especially
for the very, very, wealthy in the South East.
Now I know we could be unlucky,
if an enemy missile comes in to the UK,
while the sub on duty is too far away
to do anything about it,
but that’s life I guess, and anyway,
any enemy nuclear missile will be aimed first at Faslane,
so us down here in the south east will still be ok.
Pity about the 2 million dead and dying
in West & Central Scotland, and the loss
of all that lovely deer shooting up there,
but you can’t have everything.
In fact, we don’t want you Scots to have anything,
which is why we Tories are stripping all the wealth
out of your pockets and keeping it for ourselves.
And by the way, we’re going to buy four brand new
nuclear submarines – and you are going to pay for them.
For we are your Imperial Masters.
And, you can just hang on to the old ones,
‘cos they have nuclear reactors inside them and
we’re not having them down here.
You’re going to have to store them
somewhere up there for 100,000 years.
That’s all,
Michael Fallon.
Ps Cheer up.
what rogue state is holding Germany to ransom?
Speaking of Space Monsters.. What would Kezia be listed as if this happened:
link to bbc.co.uk
Stu said the C word in Twitter. I’m shocked. My poor eyes. Those Unionists were right, he’s a loose cannon and probably does laugh at mishap videos on t’internet too.
It’s not Britain’s nuclear deterrent. It’s an American nuclear deterrent that British taxpayers pay for. If it’s so important, park it on the Thames.
One of the problems with bombs and bullets is that they destroy people and property. The bigger they are the more they destroy. But the thing is they can never destroy an idea or an ideal, good or bad, these things will still be there when the dust settles.
Far better to spend it on health and education and make other nations want to emulate the good rather than copy the bad.
What a pointless boast, my arsenal is bigger than yours.
In case anybody’s forgotten, this is the same zoomer who refused to let the Red Arrows do a blue and white smoke fly-past at our Commonwealth games. Totally paranoid control-freak.
I find it deeply worrying that this wannabe Dr Strangelove has any input at all in our dealings with Russia. . .
I’m disgusted but hardly surprised at the vitriol that spewed forth from Fallon
So far I would say that he is in fact the most dangerous man in Europe.
This rhetoric probably enforces the premiss that the security services were involved during the referendum. After all IF you are THAT concerned, you would tend to go to extraordinary measures to ensure you kept your nuclear deterrent.
With that in mind, I would not be surprised if Falon has allowed the security forces to continue for the election.
Is this mere conspiracy theory? Well after watching that clip, can only conclude that Falon is mental enough to do what ever he feels that would protect the sovereignty of the UK
I certainly wouldn’t want his hands anywhere near the nuclear button as Glasgow and Dundee, bastions of the separatists, would be first to get nuked.
There again, should be ok in Edinburgh as they wouldn’t want to destroy the new 90 million quid Standard Life offices.
I thought he said we needed big bombs to defend ourselves against…
Procal Harum… have they not disbanded?
I’m gonna use the dreaded E word, but why oh why do some English people,unfortunately our leaders have this sabre rattling mentality and warmonger outlook? Imperial past brain freeze?
If diplomatic relations get to the stage where the US or Russia actually launch a missile, then Trident or no Trident, it will make no difference to the UK – we’re all dead anyway. It’ll either be all over quickly in a flash, or it’ll be the slow death of nuclear winter.
Let’s face it, IF – and it’s a big IF – another nuclear weapon is detonated aggresively, it’s unlikely to be a missile. It’ll be a cobbled together dirty bomb, set off in major city, and it’ll probably come with a Youtube URL attached. And then what? Do all the nations of the world just bomb the fuck out of the middle east in the hopes of catching IS or Osama 2.0 or whomever is the latest bête noire?
Either way, there’s no nuclear deterrent big enough to stop someone that fanatical. We’re facing terrorists who routinely end their own lives because they think their cause is worth it. I can’t compute that, in any way.
There are dangers involving nuclear weapons. The first step to removing those dangers is to dismantle the apparatus of war; Nasa needs that uranium for rocket fuel ffs.
Now here’s a thought or two, could it just be possible that those other countries have their nukes just because we have ours and could it be that they are just as scared of us, (or even more so), than we are of them?
All delivered in a doom laden voice, full of gravitas just to show how serious he is. I wonder how the people of Norway, Sweden, Portugal, Spain, and all the other non-nuclear countries manage to sleep at night without the protection of nuclear weapons.
Having Trident hasn’t prevented one single terrorist outrage from taking place. It has however allowed British PM’s to strut the world stage, deluding themselves that Britain is still a great power.
I wish someone would ask a Westminster politician under what circumstances they would be prepared to use nuclear weapons. Trident can only be used to attack, not to defend. If it could shoot down incoming missiles there might be some justification for it.
The only reason I can think of for any country to have nuclear weapons is to deter Britain and the USA from attacking it.
I do fear and greatly this man and his cohorts. They deal in fear and use it as the ultimate weapon against freedom and the blessings of a good life. As to the future, we are guaranteeing a century of fear by agreeing with this horrid people.
You have been watching an 8 minute Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party. Thanks BBC and the cheque is in the post.
Apart from the minor factual errors pointed out by others (biggest employer in Scotland?), we have the typical WM approach that anyone who disagrees with me is a danger to the country, to Europe, to the Free World (whatever that is), to the continued existence of the human race.
Of course, the continued existence of the human race is in no way threatened by weapons that have the ability to wipe out almost everyone on the planet, some very slowly.
Fortunately, we will be protected unlike everyone else in Europe (except the French). When all the other countries in Europe are obliterated, Britain, uniquely, will be protected from fallout by our submarine and by the prevailing westerly wind which will blow it back to the pesky Russians, for surely they wouldn’t attack during a period of east winds. Wouldn’t be cricket, you know.
Yep it was as clear as daylight sunshine streaming through an open window what he was saying there:
Scotland, get back in yer fuckin’ box or we will take excessive measures to ensure you do.
‘Be afraid Scotland, be very afraid’. The Tories are showing their true right wing colours for all to see: a bunch of fascists, dictating how we should be viewing ‘their’ world and a barely disguised ‘threat’ that if we dare to view it differently and alter course: the UK government will ‘act in the interest of security’ to ensure that we are kept down.
For Fallon to be given that full BBC platform to issue this missive, citing out of context comments from Nicola last evening, shows exactly who this is aimed at.
They will stop at nothing to maintain their union.
They are in a state of terror. They know their cosy consensus is under threat like never before.
Bring It On
:::::walks away::::: makes mental note tae get in mair supplies for armageddon; tea, twixes, milk….
Aye any future referenda with polls showing us at 60% and the missiles will be on defcon 1 pointed at Edinburgh. Fallon is crazy enough!
I normally try to add witty and accurate comments to WOS. However having seen Fallon’s lie-filled speech, I am beyond humour..
so will only add .. FALLON, F++K RIGHT OFF
A speech that should cause concern and fear for every single person in the UK… Not because of the alleged threat from all the terror groups in the world created by UK/US foreign policy… But because this warmonger is our Defence Secretary!!!
Lets end this establishment and ensure people like him are never in power!!
The problem is not Trident, Faslane or any of the other distractions but what’s in HMS Coulport. £4bn for a warehouse and specialist lift to load nukes in a sub?
You don’t have to have read Ken Alibek’s ‘Biohazard’ or spoken to many navy families to have figured out how a certain NATO ally figured out a way around the clauses in the 1972 treaty banning other types of WMD.
Stop being distracted by chaff fellow readers and focus on what’s NOT being said.
What a deeply unpleasant and unhinged individual. So we’re being unreasonable, unrealistic and naive about the nature of this bad old world eh?
And what demented, arrogant, greed obsessed, deceitful and posturing bastards made it that way I wonder?
The irony is that militant groups know only too well
that the nukes are useless and cannot be used against them.
If the UK scrapped Trident, and converted the cash into
top grade military personnel and hardware,
these militant groups would be scared, really scared,
‘cos they would know that the UK forces
would hunt them down and destroy them.
That’s how you create a deterrent Mr Fallon.
Dear Scotland
We will never let you go
(tough)Love
Westminster
[…] The Imperial Master […]
Just horridly awful.
Why should Scotland be afraid, do they think they could stop us, we would fight tooth and nail to keep our people safe,
By any means necessary but at the moment it is at the ballet box please keep to the business in hand folks.
So the British government believes that every country in the world except the USA, Russia, China, India, Pakistan, France, Israel and the UK are run by “student protestors”? Nice.
Tommorows BBC Broadcast:
Following skepticism from some leading Anti-Trident groups that the U.K Nuclear deterrent can stop suicide bombings by terrorists, Mr Fallon today added weight to his stance by insisting that without nuclear weapons Britain will be at risk from Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling.
He also insited the U.K could expect up to Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes and the dead rising from the grave. Finally he told BBC exclusively that Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together and mass hysteria will inevitably follow the scrapping of the Fleet.
He hopes that these facts will once and for all silence critics of Trident renewal, and from this reporters point of view, it’s hard to see how the SNP will retain its commitment to Faslanes closure in light of such revelations.
And now, the local News from your region:
SNP Bad. SNP BAAAAAD.
Aren’t the presence of nuclear weapons an open invitation to “terrorists” to cause mass death and destruction in the country holding them?
If you had a grudge against Finland for dropping cluster bombs on your village and wanted to wipe out thousands or millions of Finns, for example, I am not sure how you would go about it…
Another thing: the Scottish Parliament has voted against Trident nuclear weapons being stationed in Scotland and in favour of the UN’s five-point plan for nuclear disarmament.
This is an illegal occupation. At the very least, surely these weapons should be stored instead in another member of UKOK (by the way, I love the sense of aspiration in that phrase!).
If I were Patrick Harvie, I would be pressing for a referendum of the Scottish people on the issue of nuclear weapons. Or a petition to the United Nations.
Nuclear weapons are illegal under international law. END OF STORY.
Joe, try thinking of it like this: They are aliens disguised as people disguised with accents that are derived from living in a certain part of a terrain that is named England.
It is the ‘system’ that they have created for themselves and that they do not want disbanded that they are fighting for.
Robert Peffers provides eloquent prose explaining the derivation of this system from Roman times onwards.
It’s the westminster system that we are at odds with here, not the english. So you don’t have to subtly avoid saying english because that just draws attention back to that issue?
Don’t be caught in conflation Joe, that’s what our enemies want from us. Our Imperial masters just happen to have an english accent.
We are fighting against our imperial masters because of their outlook not because they are english.
These statements regarding ‘National Security’ were made by the person responsible for:
Cancellation of Nimrod leaving Scotland and the UK without any air surveillance capability.
Lack of any Navy surface ships in Scotland
2 Aircraft carriers with no aircaft to operate from them at present
A reduction in conventional armed forces personnel to a number less than the number of hairdressers in the UK (source Torygraph – sorry)
Further planned reduction from 185,000 to 159,000 by 2020.
Yet the Defence Minister deems it necessary to commit spending £100 million on an obscene nuclear deterrent that cannot be used
without US approval and could cause the wipe-out of all life on the planet if its use resulted in a nuclear war.
I have never been a member of CND but I am beginning to seriously think about it.
@Wulls
That folks is why they are so fuckin dangerous.
They list ISIS as a security threat that requires nukes.
Seriously…… We are going to launch nuclear missiles at terrorists !!!!
Where the actual fuck do we aim them at. ??????
The modern threat is terrorisim.
Exactly. Nuclear weapons are absolutely useless against terrorist groups who have no fixed base, or clearly defined territory. Fallon was talking unmitigated bollocks, and it just does not stand up to the slightest scrutiny at all.
O/T I see there has been a massive oil find near Gatwick. How can Westminster and unionists in general cope with this liability? When will they start whining about it running out, and being all terribly volatile and ruinous?
An intelligently rabid speech. Speaking from the point of view that nuclear weapons are accepted by all as absolutely necessary, which Labour won’t challenge. Referring to Faslane (inferring nuclear weapons) are Scotland’s largest employer, this ‘small’ point won’t be challenged either. Referring to SNP as ‘separatists’ to conflate them with some kind of dangerous faction and denigrating their policy by likening them to student protestors.
All of this built on the initial comment about Milliband coming to power with the ‘crutch’ of SNP votes. So, in other words, they same way they got in with LibDem votes?
It’s intelligent because it doesn’t address any of the issues but makes them look like settled decisions about to be undone by a group with no legitimacy – SNP.
It’s rabid for one simple reason – they believe it.
Michael Fallon as Secretary of State for Defence
beats George W Bush as US President.
And let’s face it, ‘Dubbya’ takes some beating.
We have got to get a divorce asap.
This so called ‘Union’ is a total disaster.
The sovereignty of the Scottish people
ought to be promoted 24 hours a day
‘cos far too many people in Scotland
don’t seem to know about it.
Vote SNP. Join SNP.
Support Nicola.
The Russians probably know where our subs are at all times thanks to sub-sea microphones (mica?) and the odd hunter-killer sub. So if we threatened to nuke Putin we might find we had fewer subs than we thought!
In true wings fashion did anyone pick up on what was NOT being said?
4 new subs to be commissioned to replace the current collection. Okay, so what happens to them? Does it mean that we could forsee a senario where the old ones are dumped in Scottish waters also to be scrapped or we have 5,6,7,8 whist the other subs are trialed?
It’s not what we asked for it’s not what I want for my country. If you want these so badly please take them from Scottish shores.
If Faslane and Coulport employ so many ( and as a resident not too far away i can testify the input to the local ecomomy from the base and its
supply depot is many times less than it was a few years back) i’m sure there will be a queue forming of other regions desperate to house this near their kids…money is all important after all.
.
Isn’t it?
Donald Urquhart, That did actually make me laugh..a lot.
Always good to keep your sense of humour!
I don’t understand the rational behind the statements that FOUR submarines are required to provide the same deterrent.
That just seems like nonsense.
1. It doesn’t stop terrorism.
2. It doesn’t stop conventional wars like the Falklands.
3. If there ever was a nuclear war, then the combined forces of major players would also be involved, the EU, US, NATO etc
Even if you accept the premise they aren’t going to be uninvented, and you can’t trust others to disarm, then surely the best solution is for a few major defense pacts to have as FEW bombs as possible eg NATO or the EU
The concept of every country in the world having independent nuclear missiles is just crazy.
Patrick Harvie is a thoroughly nice man who cares about the planet, the environment, all good things..but he did support the SNP in the desire for Independence and removal of Trident with all that that entails
So..it makes you think
Why don’t the Unionists attack nice Patrick for having many of the same objectives as Nicola Sturgeon
I can hear you all shout loudly ( NO THREAT ) that’s why
So when the Unionist Parties claim it’s all about the issues
they’re just plain lying they’re backsides off
Again i say, i like Patrick Harvie he behaves like a gentleman in all these debating pieces of nonsense
But can i just say gently, Patrick do you not think that you’re hiding just a wee bitty
Only an observation, unless i’m missing something
From the Graun today-who says they aren’t panicking? co-ordinated response to SNP or what. Speech then this
What’s the future of Trident?
link to archive.today
“WE ARE THE MIGHTY UK AND WE MUST HAVE A BIG SHINY FALSE COCK TO MAKE UP FOR OUR LACK OF EMPIRE”.
The truth is that this is merely only a variant on the time-tested tactic of playing up external fears when you know you and your policies are very unpopular at home.
It is also used to try and make sure you don’t expect any more from life because ‘we have all these external people who pose a threat to our great way of life’.
It’s already great here and don’t you dare expect any more, we aren’t like those ghastly other places where they have it much worse than you so stop complaining. Ironically, accepting this line of argument is to engage in the ‘race to the bottom’ mindset they always say they so abhor, as opposed to thinking it would be nicer if we were all doing a little better.
The weapons make us a target. If faslane was nuked or a major accident happened it could wipe most Scottish people out. Get them to f*+k!
Text of today’s speech by defence sec’y Michael Fallout-
“I am speaking slowly and portentously to you today, through the medium of a set speech before a fawning audience of tame journalists. My gravitas, elder-statesmanlike white hair, and stern mien shall, and indeed must, convince you that what I say must be the truth, now and forever.
We noble Tories are dedicated to giving our friends and allies in the banking sector the chance to increase their profits, by financing our one hundred Billion pounds spending on Britain’s nuclear defence system.
This is the least that we could do to help secure the future of Britain’s engine of growth, the unregulated London casino-banking sector.
Let me tell you that by investing in the job-creating titan that is Faslane Peace Camp & Nuclear Storage Facility (Open Mon-Fri), we are committed to securing the borders of our rogue nation, let me rephrase that, our proud nation.
We, of course, have more admirals that fighting ships, and sensibly have reduced costs by prudently ensuring that our air force does not have enough active planes to patrol our northern frontiers.
Such planes and ships are not required, when we have the prospect of four new, mighty, and over-budget, nuclear boats to strike fear into the craven hearts of such foreigners as would seek to impose their will upon us.
To offset the costs of our grand venture, the naming rights to the new vessels have been put up for auction. We do strive to bring the benefit of the marketplace to our loyal voters.
In the near future, after May 7th and the expected dismissal of the ‘enemy within’ by the wise postal voters of Jockland, we will announce the tenders for the construction of our new -yet also historic- deterrent fleet.
Proud workers in Portsmouth, on Tyneside, even in the distant regions of Belfast and Wales, will have their shipyard jobs secured for a decade thanks to this most excellent Conservative initiative.
Scotland has not been forgotten, either. We obviously could not trust the Scots to actually build one of the new submarines. However we are a magnanimous breed in Westminster.
So, instead, noted British artist Damien Hirst has been commissioned to make an ‘installation’ from the remains of the present nuclear fleet. This shall be installed at the front door of the (cough)temporary Scottish parliament building, as a reminder of who the masters are in our relationship.
Replacing the current Vanguard-class submarine shall be the four new nuclear Winter-class craft, in partnership with our gold-level sponsors. They shall be-
SSBN BurgerKing Whopper,
SSBN Colgate Whitestrips,
SSBN Rentokil Waspaway,
SSBN Tesco Wholewheat.
Names to strike fear in the hearts of our nation’s enemies, names of renown, names from major players on the FTSE 100”
@ Gordon E at 1.45
Withholding tax is not really practicable if you are on PAYE, but you’ll find further information about the campaign here:
link to conscienceonline.org.uk
How tiresome from Fallon. We’re all naive in Scotland and should sit on the naughty step.
Meanwhile, his level of argument is painfully thin. The UK deterrent is utterly insignificant in global terms and irrelevant to most of the threats he mentions. Why should we keep paying for this white elephant when most other EU nations do not and suffer no threat as a consequence?
As for Faslane being Scotland’s largest employer, what utter bollocks!
That video by Fallon must be the biggest recruiting tool for Scottish Independence ever seen.
No lie too big to tell the UK electorate. Ooh Mr Mainwaring ……….
Thing is, it’s not only Westminster’s feathers we’ve ruffled – it’s Washington’s! Westminster have probably been told to get it sorted! The yanks have taken out Presidents for less! I feel a false flag coming on!
Trident is an abomination to humanity
link to youtube.com
Apologies if already posted above but, the Scott Minto Wings article from last year (link to wingsoverscotland.com) might bear some re-reading in the context of this post.
Largest employer in Scotland is likely the Scottish health service.
As regards the speech by the arrogant, and offensive Fallon of the Tory party, we can see the utter contempt with which he holds democracy, and especially the democratic views of Scotland.
It is the choice of the people who elect our politicians as to whether we keep trident or not, not something which comes in the form of diktat by a second rate Tory cabinet minister, like the frankly ridiculous Fallon.
If those nukes are soooo important to the Tories, berth them on the Thames, preferably right out side the Palace of Westminster. Either way, the people of Scotland do not want them in our country anymore.
Of course the argument Fallon tries to make about the need for trident is hogwash. Norway has none, Italy has none, Holland has none, Belgium has none, Iceland has none, Canada has none, New Zealand has none, and so on. Indeed MOST countries in the EU and around the world do not have nukes. So why is it the case that the UK, a very small country on the world map, so desperately needs nukes?? Simple, it is so the likes of Fallon can go on jaunts around the world, macho dick waving on a global stage.
Scotland has no need for nukes. It does however have an urgent need for a substantial fleet of conventional surface vessels, and maritime patrol capability – NONE of which are currently provided by London.
At least now we know, Trident is a RED LINE issue for the Tories (red lines of course work both ways).
Listening to this colonialism which is beyond arrogant, and oozes unbounded contempt for Scots, one is forced to question again how any Scot with the remotest modicum of self-respect can tie themselves to this odious Union.
Simply staggering.
Dear Mr Fallon
I disagree strongly with your comments regarding the renewal of Trident and challenge you to a duel in Downing Street.
Please choose your weapons – I choose a Trident missile.
Doug Daniel says:
9 April, 2015 at 2:57 pm
“WE ARE THE MIGHTY UK AND WE MUST HAVE A BIG SHINY FALSE COCK TO MAKE UP FOR OUR LACK OF EMPIRE”.
Oh Doug, there is an empire to protect, the Empire of Westminster Village and its colonies throughout the U.K! It’s like a mini version of the British Empire, only with Scotland as the new ‘jewel in the Crown’ instead of India. Now let’s all sing the anthem like good drones!
Rule Westminster, Westminster rules the radio waves! (thanks BBC)
Britons will always be Neo Liberal slaves!
Huzzah!
@Dr Jim
Harsh having a go at Patrick Harvie. You think the media wait praying he coughs up a word or two?
Its the media who control what goes in the media..Patrick can release countless press statements but chances are his phone remains cold as media couldnt care less about his party
Cameron’s stick on hairy chest.
It’s only ever going to be a vengeance weapon. If we fired all the war heads at once at Moscow. Russia lost more men than that would inflict and went into reach Berlin.
SNP now has more
Members than the combined armed forces of the UK.
This is why they don’t want broadcasting devolved.
It’s their wee Propaganda tool.
Stuff like this and Gordon Brown’s speeches expose the lie that the BBC is a impartial observer.
Vanguard
Vengeance
Victorious
Vigilant
Wot no Verisimilitude ?
“Britain doesn’t pay ransoms and a tory gvt would never bow to demands from Scottish separatists”
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
Regarding largest employer. I think it said recently on here that Trident cost is all on Scottish books from a UK accounting exercise. Maybe he is putting employment related to Trident all on Scottish books as well even if not actually Scottish domicile. Happy to lose both sets of figures.
This just in from downing street. Must watch..
link to youtu.be
The £100 Billion misfire…
link to scottcreighton.co.uk
The sad fact is that English nationals will love this speech…by stoking this rhetoric is horrendous
Con/Lab coalition is being manoeuvred into place to lock out the “evil” scots.
p nancy…westminster, washington
tamaetoes, tomatoes
Let’s call the whole thing off-putting 🙂
Subverting democracy…..The mob we keep the weapons for do this daily worldwide
Among the Unionists, it has become fashionable
in the past few days
to speak about Scotland ‘settling down’.
Cameron, Ruth Davidson, Murphy, Rennie,
are all talking about no new referendum
for a generation,
or even a lifetime.
This is psychology; State brainwashing, pure and simple.
It is designed to get us to
‘go off home, there’s nothing to see here’-
when all the while
there most certainly IS something to see here.
Cameron et al, want 1.6 million + Yes voters
to stop thinking about independence –
because the Unionists have so much to hide.
They want the case closed and the files to disappear.
They don’t want the case re-opened. Why?
It might be about all the dodgy stuff Better Together
did during InyRef.
But is how they ‘got away with it’ the issue?
No. I don’t think so.
Not for a second am I contemplating
picking over the carcass of IndyRef.
The point is to keep your eye
on what the Unionists are doing RIGHT NOW.
And right now, among other things,
they are trying to BURY INDY.
And they are doing that for a reason.
It might be that they want to create
a climate of thinking throughout the country
which has zero tolerance for Scottish Independence.
We have seen examples of that already,
when talk of a new referendum has been met with angry impatience.
Think of it this way – if the Westminster Establishment
is wired to Scotland, using it as a life-support system,
then the Unionists will not want
the idea of a Referendum resurrected.
Maybe in twenty five years time – but not now.
Not when England’s future is on a knife edge.
And that, right there, may well be the reason.
Cameron and crew want the UK –
and Scotland in particular
to be blissfully unaware of how precarious
England’s finances are.
And you know what, the more we talk about Independence,
the more Market confidence in England as a going concern,
will diminish.
Only a few days ago, the International Monetary Fund,
declared that the prospects for growth worlwide
are not at all good for the forseeable future.
England is in trouble – and wants to keep it quiet.
They have a plan of ‘recovery’ for the Establishment,
but they need our co-operation if it is to work.
Our job is to do the opposite!
Vote SNP. Join SNP.
Support Nicola.
oof,well Mr Fallon have you finished here is a hanky to wipe the shit from around your mouth.
Great i will sleep better knowing those desperados fighting for their lands will get nuked if they really mess with us jeez gimme a break.
Why do i get an image of 4 guys in a toyota hilux with a 50 cal strapped to it suddenly turned in a mushroom cloud along with the other 100,000 civilians it just killed ,a bit overkill methinks even for team GB.
Agree with all of the above but did no one notice that the sub’s are at sea 364 days per year so what happens Mr Fallon in a leap year?
A few weeks ago CH4 Dispatches programme was about the declining ability of Britain’s armed forces to defend the UK. Angus Robertson was interviewed during the programme. Once about the Russian aircraft carrier group off the Moray Firth and then the lack of air reconnaisance planes.
But the best bit was when the programme discussed the new carriers and the lack of sufficient naval ships to protect them. Apparently the response the programme got to this point was that in the event of a conflict the RN would borrow or rent ships from friendly neighbours!!
Now who knew Hertz rented warships, or as Jim Murphy would say, complex warships.
Maybe Avis do nuclear subs.
Is it any wonder we are in this state with the likes of Mr Fallon in charge.
How soon before the voices of all SNP representatives have to be over-dubbed by the voices of ‘actors’?
Perhaps Nicola should wear her steel helmet and a stab proof vest for her next Party Leaders debate on 3rd May. She could also encourage the electorate to return 59 Indy seats at the general election to validate the removal of Trident from Scotland as it is a target, not a defence.
Also, maybe Indy supporters attending that meeting could be encouraged to identify themselves in some way so as to demonstrate how much of a stitch up/ambush the event actually is.
A wee bit O/T
For those of you waiting with bated breath for young G A Ponsonby’s book “How the BBC Stole the Referendum” you can pre-order via the link on this Twitter posting:
link to twitter.com
If Trident is a red line for all parties, rendering any deal with the SNP impossible, it might take a Lab-Con coalition to get a Trident replacement.
I think this is what is really causing the exploding heads. We will get the Trident replacement anyway, but at the cost of exposing the charade of the 2 party fiction.
now theres a man who puts on his security system every night, turns on the floodlights and lets the guard dogs out. Scared, scared, scared.
Bet he goes round and pulls out the plugs from the sockets, padlocks the budgies cage and checks for spiders as well
I’m with Man in the Jar, Faslane is Scotland’s biggest employer? WTF is he talking about?
Personally I think there is no stopping the unionist media. I have a good pension coming up soon. If we don’t get indy2 I’m off to Eastern Europe where my pension will make it possible to die in comfort. Westminster disgusts me. How low will these elite, kiddy fiddlers go to protect there crimes and fortune Labour/ Conservative and Liberal Dems> GUILTY.
I would describe that as a seriously divisive speech from a Unionist Minister of the UK.
Always remember that out of touch public schoolboy twits like Fallon – and indeed the rest of the tory party and the Labour party – were the ones who LIED TO PUBLIC ABOUT WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ.
These arrogant warmongers cheered on the Iraq catastrophe and it is abundantly clear that politicians that stupid cannot ever be trusted with inhuman weapons of mass destruction.
We KNOW the scottish public are with us on this.
We WILL get rid of these grotesque weapons of mass destruction and use the £100 BILLION on our NHS and to create a better scotland for all the scottish people.
Apart from anything else, it is a ridiculous plan to commit to a weapons system with a 40-year lifetime that can only be based in Scotland, when it cannot be guaranteed that Scotland will stay in the UK for anything like that long.
Scottish independence is at least as likely as any of the hypothetical and unforeseen military threats that we are supposed to think might face the UK, that we need a deterrent against.
To make this make sense as a strategy, they have to commit to forcibly preventing Scottish independence, no matter what we vote for, for longer than the “once in a generation” time limit they themselves would supposedly accept before the next referendum.
This is tantamount to a declaration of occupation by the MoD against the people of Scotland. In which case, it’s pretty much a moral imperative to fuck up their plans as much as possible.
Rev,
I watched every excruciatingly painful second of that 8 minutes.
It is obvious that you are a very busy man because every single bit of that guff spoken by Fallon can be dismantled and dismissed with ease.
What a very frightening thought that the future safety and security of further generations are in the hands of the Fallons of this world.
We desperately need to GTF out of this abusive marriage with Warminster and put our own positive and progressive influence on this planet of ours.
Haven’t read all the comments yet so someone may already have mentioned this but did you know that that very same warmonger (Michael Fallon) was caught up in a expenses scandal. And do you know what his first reaction was? Instead of holding his hands up and saying its a fair kop guv, i’m sorry – he blamed others for not bringing the matter to his attention sooner.
That’s correct folks, that’s the sort of cretinous clown we have in charge of our so-called safety and security.
Lets tell Warminster to GTF – vote SNP.
Will these subs be built on the Clyde…place ur bets
Katherine Carington Smith says: 1.42
Glad your orchard is elephant free. And I totally agreed that this sort of sabre rattling paranoia is likely to make the world less safe. Imagine this speech being made by Putin.
These bar stewards set out to frighten us over the last couple of years and I think they have succeeded, though not for the reasons they think. We are at the mercy of the establishment’s gigantic lie machine (doesn’t he say at one point, that the SNP want unlimited welfare spend? What tosh) and the sooner we can disengage from it the better.
I’m going to have a lie down now, I think.
What a pompous, patronising old buffoon.
( I am screaming at the top of my voice – outdoors)
I WANT A DIVORCE !!
“Britain does not pay ransoms and a Conservative government would not give in to Scottish separatists”
What exactly do they intend to do in the event of a democratic decision to mothball Trident?
Sounds suspiciously like democracy is a mantle they can throw off any time it doesn’t suit them.
Military coup anyone?
Wasn’t sure whether my post actually showed up earlier – I was in the gym listening to this abomination of a speech – nearly fell off my exercise bike and ended up doing 15 minutes instead of ten!
Internet connection wasn’t that great and I was using an iPhone so apologies for the spelling mistakes! I also meant to add that as far as nuclear weapons are concerned – yes they are a disgrace and total waste of money, are not a deterrent as they are a first strike weapon and even then we get to use them only if the good old USA give us the permission and the launch codes!
As far as I’m concerned they should not be allowed on Scottish soil or in Scottish waters, but if the red or blue Tories insist on having them, they should be relocated in England seeing as it’s the English voters who really want them!
Only 520 civilian jobs at HM Naval Base Clyde are dependent on Trident.
link to nuclearinfo.org
Dear God! What kind of evil is this?
How terrifying to think that this loony is the defence secretary and how bloody dare he treat us dismissively.
What an utter pillock.
And that’s another ,” Thanks proudscotsbut”
Well seen that they have no care for their country or live in their own little ” I’m alright Jack” bubble.
Time for Trident to sit under the arse of this arse Fallon and we can chuck in Fraser Nelson and Alan Cochrane both of whom are more than happy to write scurrilous articles about Trident versus the SNP while neither of whom live or work anywhere near both it and its radio active effluent belching submarines.
Military coup?? There are almost more people joining the SNP since the referendum than are in the British armed forces! If the Tories keep cutting the numbers in the army, navy and airforce they wouldn’t have enough personnel to stage a military coup! Unless of course the old grey Tories reformed “dads army” ?
scav 3.56
We fuck up their plans as much as possible by sending a whole busload of SNP mp’s to their cesspit on May 7th.
THE UNION IS DEAD
@ Glamaig 3.46 pm. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there.
The Tories may well be called the stupid party but they’ve certainly stitched up Labour good style.
Labour can’t move to the right in Scotland and can’t move to the left in England. Completely boxed in.
“Call me Dave” may be many things but he certainly seems more adept at this politics lark than anyone on the Labour side.
The mentality demonstrated here by Fallon is much more infantile than any kind of student protest. Based on what he says, and the way he says it, I can easily visualise him, aged about 8 or 9, running along the dunes of a small remote island, brandishing a big stick, hoping to teach his insurgent class-mates a jolly good lesson.
Better Together? Colonial imperialists like Fallon think so! All the more reason to get the hell out of this so called “Union”.
Interested to see how many labour mps vote trident down. Don’t think it will be enough
PS Next stop for Trident and the “massive” 520 workforce is a berth on the Thames hopefully right outside of Warmonger-minster.
Taste of your own medicine Fallon.
UNBELIEVABLE! Bangs head on desk.
What a load of utter bollocks. What effin planet is that stupid man on.
Sheesh, give me strength.
This speech made me feel sick to my stomach. Not only grossly offensive in his language towards SNP and their supporters but confirming everything that’s wrong with the “we need WMDs” crowd.
I couldn’t help but think this is a weapon to be used against the SNP and open the door to a Lab-Con government to cause quiet.
If that happens then I think we seriously need to then look at declaring UDI because it’s best to leave them with the renewal of the product they so dearly love and it’s also a way for us to get them to move it from our shores.
Sorry, my utter pish quotient ran out at around 3 mins, what a knob of a politician
Maybe Mr Fallons constituents would like to have nuclear warheads stored in their constituency,making them a target for North Korea, Iran or any other nuclear armed state for the next 60 years. NO? Well,we don’t want them either.
I thought most workers relating to trident didn’t stay all week in any nearby town and didn’t spend most of their cash locally,also,not sure it is Scotlands biggest employer. These lies won’t work and were used during the indyref,us seperatists know that,and so should the Westminster government.
If mega death causing weapons are the Scotlands biggest employer,it says more about this and previous Westminster governments to be honest. Shades of Dr Strangelove here.
Heard him this morning and after the conversation I had the other day with someone I know voted NO who when I raised the matter of Trident asked if I had been around during the war. Husband was going to ask which one, but this person would not have been more than a child during WW2, certainly my Mother in law and Father in Law were both teenagers at the commencement they would have been early nineties and late eighties whilst this person is middle seventies. I expect I was meant to be terrified of being blown to smithereens by the invading army. Well as I said more likely to be blown to smithereens because we keep sticking our noses where they do not belong and someone better mention to Germany and who are much nearer to the “enemy” that they need Trident.
Anyone mentioned Orwell yet?
Weird. An Uncanny resemblance to the totally circular, self supporting logic of Dr Strangelove.
‘Discover ourselves a nation again’
I recently hung a painting
which I’ve had stored away in the house for many years.
Now that it is up on the wall,
an unforeseen dynamic has come with it.
It involves a choice.
Knowing it is there,
and knowing the subject of the painting,
am I going to walk past it umpteen times a day
as it hangs in the upstairs hallway,
or am I going to take time to stand
and really look at it
while asking those questions
which help reveal it’s meaning.
There seems to be a co-relation
between this ‘dynamic’
and Scotland’s current political situation.
Broadly speaking, there is a choice
for every person in Scotland –
assuming we know what is going on,
and walking by umpteen times a day,
but not really looking or paying attention.
Why bother after all, when the Daily Record
and the BBC are there with all the answers.
Or, as Stu and so many brilliant wingers,
and so many other Independence-minded
writers and bloggers and supporters and voters do –
which is to stop and look closely at what is before us;
and to ask those questions which reveal
the meaning of what is being ‘painted’ everyday
on the political canvas.
Support Nicola any way you can.
Hans Blix: Britain’s Trident plans ‘completely pointless’
link to blogs.channel4.com
Has anyone noticed that unionist defence ministers are complete loonies? And this warmonger has “prep school”, “fagging” and “public-school education” written all over him. I don’t think they do democracy or international law or human rights in the circles in which he moves…
Well if they want Trident,relocate it to Portsmouth, simples.
They could do that without putting half of Scotland at risk.
Their own voters can then judge if they are comfortable with them or not.
If they do not, then they will be ejected after Indy, which will likely be before Trident will be due to come off the assembly line.
As others have rightly said, America has to agree to let them be used, and then pass on the codes, it is not an independent weapon anyway, we cannot just use it if we want to.
Even if we are attacked, are they really, really sure the Americans will risk their own country by all knowing,they gave the UK permission to fire them?.
Rev is getting a lot of abuse on twitter.
Really disgusting
The terrorists who see their own death as a glorious triumph will be deterred how?
The Tory Defence Secretary would save us money if he just challenged the French to a hissing contest. Freud would see phallus written all over this tragic nonsense. Pleeeeeaaase peoples of Scotland get us out of this insanity!
I could only make it as far as 4:08 seconds then I started feeling sick.
Is Faslane the largest employer in Scotland? I always thought it was the NHS but I must be wrong if a government minister says otherwise.
OK….. Let’s face it. Cameron has regally stuffed the Labour Party.
After the GE the torus will be stupid to try to form a government.
Miliband will be PM with SNP support.
To replace trident they do not require SNP backing then because the Tories (the blue ones) will step up to the plate.
Either way welcome to new trident.
I couldn’t watch all the way through. I am an ex soldier and am sickened by these idiots.
Chuck the nukes and give our troops decent gear. ( We buy our own because the issue stuff is shite)
Up the wages and offer trainging when leaving the service. Conscripts get this in Germany and Danmark and probably more.
And stop sending our troops off to fight wars for bankers .
If you want to renew Trident then there is an easy solution.
Relocate it to the Thames – then everyone’s happy.
Anyone taking bets on what the next threat to Scotland will be after today’s crap?
Fallon was born in Perth and went to (prep) school near Dunfermline. Perhaps his obvious anathema towards Scotland is in some way rooted in his childhood? He certainly belongs to the Blair-Brown-Darling school of proud Scots.
I recently read a book about the collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe and the collapse of the USSR. Gorbachev made it clear to his senior military men that not only was he not prepared to press the button if the West had tried anything, he wouldn’t even press it during an exercise.
Think about it, Fally boy.
slightly O/T – our media doesn’t seem interested in keeping us up to date with the activities of our boys in blue regularly updated here
link to gov.uk
Why the silence? Or have I missed the reports? I genuinely don’t know. Suggestions?
Maybe the bbc should play Mr chomskey after that drivel….
CBC Hot Type Evan Solomon interviews Noam Chomsky on his book 9/11: link to youtu.be
On watching the Fallon clip again I knew I’d seen him somewhere before – But he was in a grey tracksuit at home in his nuclear bunker.
‘Lifestyles of the rich and dangerous’ enjoy
link to youtube.com
Russia “changing international borders by force” He’s just raging that the British Empire is impotent and cannae do these things any more. Let’s get some phalic replacements.
WTF? Popped out to Lidl, and come back to World War Z.
Fear, the greatest motivator since time immemorial.
That man should be utterly ashamed, and I didn’t even watch it all. They really do see themselves as our betters. The people of Iceland wouldn’t let this shit on their TV, look how they handled the bankers.
With Roger Carr, Chair of BAE Systems, now vice-chair of the BBC, it’s no wonder they provide free party political broadcasts for the warmongers in the Conservative Party to boost their donors income streams.
link to rt.com
Well, does this qarrogant ramble not just piss you off? Faslane, Scotland’s biggest employer?
Just for that we should just get a maximum number of SNP MPs in place to bugger up their plans.
Could never understand why a nation that designs and builds nuclear weapons and can build submarines needs to go for some expensive American option. The French have ballistic submarines made entirely in France. Why not a tie up with an European ally to create a cost-effective nuclear deterrent if they so badly needed one?
Maybe we should be looking into this a wee bit further.
Wow! This is an unprecedented political attack. They really must be scared!
It does kind off make you glad that the Americans have the codes and it is not left to the likes of Mr Fallon and his warmongering buddies or we would all have been MAD by now.
Another good thing is we can no longer build our own warheads as Brown sold the rights to the Americans and under the Non-Proliferation Treaty it would be illegal to restart the program ,not because he believed in getting rid off them but because he had just bankrupted team GB.
Pensioner here,
In my opinion that Mr Fallon is such a scared, silly wee man, what’s he gonna do. throw a raspberry at the people of Scotland. Ha, Ha.
Our biggest threat comes from the American pre-emptive strike policy. ie: if they presume they are about to be attacked, they make sure they get the first hit in.
scav 3.56,
you raise a very important point about it being foolish to commit to such a massively expensive project,dependent on being based in Scotland,when Scotland is quite likely to leave the union.Opinion polls put Yes/No on roughly 50:50 at the moment.It seems a bit foolish to me.
Different Tory dude, same TINA shite.
Seven out of the top ten countries afflicted by terrorist attacks are predominately Muslim, according to the Australia-headquartered Institute for Economics and Peace’s Global Terrorism Index for 2014, which is based on the University of Maryland’s meta-analytic Global Terrorism Database. Using a maximum value of ten and a minimum value of zero, the entire international community is systematically ranked. Although the definition of terrorist incidents in the University of Maryland’s Global Terrorism Database can definitely be debated over, important inferences can be made from its data sets and the Institute for Economics and Peace’s Global Terrorism Index.
Several key features can be noticed, if readers look at the nature and identities of the perpetrators of what is classified as acts of terrorism among the top thirty countries in the Global Terrorism Index for 2014. The first feature is that the violence generated from the ascribed terrorist groups falls within the framework of insurrections and civil wars that are generally equated as acts of terrorism. For example, this is the case for countries like Somalia, the Philippines, Thailand, Colombia, Turkey, Mali, the Democratic Republic of Congo, and Nepal, which are respectively ranked seventh, ninth, tenth, sixteenth, seventeenth, twenty-second, and twenty-fourth place. Under closer examination several of these insurgencies can be tied to international rivalries and power plays by the US and its allies. This becomes obvious when more observations are made.
The second feature is that the majority of the cases of terrorism in the indexed countries, especially the higher ranked they are on the list, are connected to Washington’s direct or indirect interference in their affair. For example, this is the case for Iraq, NATO-garrisoned Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Somalia, Yemen, Russia, Lebanon, Libya, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Sudan, South Sudan, China, and Iran, which are respectively ranked first, second, third, fifth, seventh, eighth, eleventh, fourteenth, fifteenth, eighteenth, nineteenth, twentieth, twenty-fifth, and twenty-eighth. US-led wars, Pentagon interventions, US-backed coups, or US government support for so-called «opposition» groups or proxy regimes have all been a basis for the affliction of terrorism in these countries. Out of the above countries, according to the Global Terrorism Index, 82% of global deaths that are assigned to acts of terrorism happen in NATO-garrisoned Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Syria, and Nigeria. The ties to US foreign policy should be clear.
link to globalresearch.ca
And why no mention of Israel, as a nuclear armed rogue state?
link to globalresearch.ca
America was/is/will be the biggest threat to the world the sooner people forget the dross about “special relationship” the better,Putin only looking out for Russia.
Even if Faslane was Scotland’s biggest employer,
with the implication that we can’t afford
to lose all those jobs, so we must keep Trident anyway.
This is the same logic as saying,
we can’t liberate prisoners in concentration camps
because the guards will be unemployed.
Or we can’t close paedophile run children’s homes,
because the Janitor and cleaning staff
can’t afford to lose their jobs.
In complete contrast, braw pic today of oor FM playing with some weans. A perfect illustration of BAIRNS NOT BOMBS!!
I see the Telegraph are now playing the religious card in the debates with their latest piece headed up as..
“Just a day after the first Scotland leaders’ debate, Nicola Sturgeon, Jim Murphy, Ruth Davidson and Willie Rennie clash again, this tim with Ukip’s David Coburn and the Green’s Patrick Harvie”
Appalling, aye it will be a rough night down at the Lodge tonight I fear..
Lollysmum wrote:
“Anyone taking bets on what the next threat to Scotland will be after today’s crap?”
Well, funny you should ask that, i seen this earlier:
Snowflakes saturated with bubonic plague heading our way but not to worry folks, our guardians in London have the power to divert said snowflakes out into the Atlantic. Keeping us safe.
PHEW! Thank fuck for that, eh! I’m voting for DimJim! My hero!
😉
MJack
Don’t worry about us in other countries feeling insulted not having nuclear on our shores, we’re actually fine with it.
We also go to bed each night without being afraid that the bogey man will zap us while we’re sleeping. LOL
I can’t believe your government is so irresponsible to put a news clip up like that trying to sway voters prior to an election. How Americanised WM has become. LOL
I’ve had enough – am sick to my stomach with a,, this shit
Subs get tae….
link to scottcreighton.co.uk
Just noticed Rev puts the clip at Def con mental – good summary.
Of course when you Google the headlines, all the fury is about slagging off Ed. The Tories have just used this warmongering to slag Ed, and cast SNP as the villains as per.
I never agree with the calls for UDI, when they appear, but my God, speeches like this sorely test anyone trying to do things slowly and properly.
Why are the Press not ripping into the crap in this speech. That is rhetorical.
what about the earth killer meteorites
Always look on the bright side of life, de dum de dum dedum dedum dedum.
They dabated Nicola in England, thanks for that by the way David, that didnae work, SNP membership went up.
They tried the leaky French letter approach, French didn’t play ball. that didn’t work.
Murphy has helped Labour in Scotland go to, in their words, “devcon fucked.”
Let’s try the Bush method. Fallon has jumped straight in with the nyoolcear option which he says we need against stone throwing terrists and naive young Sturginites. Nae gonna work.
Hold a steady course Nicola, you’re doing fine and they are in a blind panic. De dum dedum…
Quoted from : link to cnduk.org
Jobs
According to the then Defence Secretary Des Browne in 2009, only 589 jobs at the Clyde Naval base were directly dependent on Trident. 541 of these were in Coulport, mainly as security officers. This indicates that most of the jobs at Faslane are not dependent on Trident and could be sustained if the Vanguard Class submarines were phased out and investment committed to diversification of the skills held by workers at the base.
All I can say is thank goodness we have all those nuclear weapons, you know just in case we have to protect ourselves from hostile neighbors run by loonies
“Is Faslane the largest employer in Scotland? I always thought it was the NHS but I must be wrong if a government minister says otherwise.”
The largest public sector employer according to Google is the NHS – the largest private sector is apparently Tesco!
Remember, every vote for the SNP is a wee slap on this bas++rd’s face.
CameronB Brodie says:
Israel’s submarines.
Just to put things in perspective, Israel’s new Dolphin submarines are diesel electric 2000 tons and fire cruise missiles which can have nuclear warheads. UK’s aging Vanguard submarines are 16000 tons and can fire ICBMs.
Any WMDs are a step too far, but the UK intends to play and stay in the premier league!
I’m sure I read fairly recently that the MoD
don’t have, or can’t get, enough nuclear engineers
to maintain the submarines.
It would also appear, after a number of embarrassing incidents,
that the Royal Navy don’t have enough personnel
of sufficient knowledge and skill to drive these subs safely
without crashing the damn things.
“Captain, we’re just leaving the Gairloch, Sir.
Do we go straight on or turn right?
Ooops, what was that noise?”
I have always assumed there was a sub out there,
all the time.
Now, I don’t believe that.
There are 26 non-nuclear armed EU countries – Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden. There are another lot in The European Economic Area (EEA), including Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway and Switzerland is neither an EU or EEA but is part of the single market.
Are all these countries, “limping on crutches, arrogant and terrifying”? Are all those countries, “Sacrificing their long term security and playing into the hands of their enemies? Are they all, “Facing nuclear blackmail by rogue states”?
Well here’s a thing for all our other friends throughout the United Kingdom – if you prefer better wages and conditions and a better Health service, your best choice for the United Kingdom’s Government is to vote for Labour while we Scots vote SNP to hold the Labour Party in check and into more reasonable and reasoned policies than the warmongering Tory/LibDem loonies.
Just for the record,they had a plan in place called “pegasus” which involved a plant on site at Faslane for processing the fuel rods for the subs. It involved quite a bit of expansion of the current site and installation of a reactor for the rod production.
It is temporarily shelved,but is by no means of the planning board.
Is this what we really want 20 miles from Glasgow ?
Labour seems to be under the kind of attacks they themselves tried to mount on Scotland. Relentless personal attacks on their leadership,trying to manipulate them into ruling stuff in and out. They are afraid other parties will decide the fate of a party who haven’t won a majority since 1992 and looking like they still won’t.
May be wrong but is this not so much to do with defence and much more to do with their seat in the Security Council. No nuclear weapons and then India and Pakistan will be squabbling for Britain’s seat, oh the shame of it.
Well if they want to keep said nuclear weapons I suggest they find somewhere within their borders to keep them and we would appreciate that they not be left anywhere close to our borders. Now that they have found oil might be a good idea if the keep their submarines around that vulnerable stuff and away from the insurgents.
Scotland is already facing “nuclear blackmail by a rogue state”.
I’ve an idea! If these weapons are supposedly never going to be used, Why don’t we scrap what we have and build and make some dummy imitations without nuclear capability, who else is to know. Its all top secret anyway. Save a fortune and everyones happy.
Isis,Putin/Ukraine,Boko Harem,9/11,and any other topical “threats” he wants to throw into the scarepot only accentuates the complete illogicallity of his case for a renewal of Trident.This gross weapons system (controlled by Uncle Sam) did not/has not/will not/can not prevent or quash such offensive occurences.It’s a TOTAL annihilation construct.
Let’s not forget there is a mega arms industry.
Let’s think on the Orwellian WAR IS PEACE concept.
Let’s see through this claptrap.
Remove them from the clyde for a start.
Vote SNP.
galamcennalath
I yield to your superior knowledge. 😉
P.S. My disapproval of Israel does not make me anti-Semitic, it makes me anti-Zionist, which is the exact opposite of anti-Semitic.
3 or 4 billion barrels of oil under South Engerland. Miracle how fortunate were rich. Pop 60m
10 to 15 billion barrels in Scottish waters. Very bad, Scotland is just one big problem. Pop 5m
Thank god ENGERLAND is there to hold our hand. Just remember to count your fingers.
Sorry, but this clip makes me detest every single no voter in Scotland. WTF have you done? Eh? Happy now?
This represents the counsel of despair politics and should be consigned to the political fossil record.
There are far more pressing matters to attend to -securing equality of opportunity which is a key feature of a modern democracy because the current levels are inconsistent with the conception of a good society.
Distributional issues are at the heart of this greatest of challenges- Scotland doesn’t want Trident-so let us have our share of the financial contribution towards it, UKOK can move it to where it is welcome & we can use those funds to reverse the ‘inequality turn’-social return on investment on a grand scale.
There is an alternative to war to reducing inequality that is defined by a harmonious democratic and economic rationality- that would be the aspirational, inspirational YES movement-make your vote count in May.
How many people have died because it is more important to spend billions on a nuclear weapon system that can never be used, would be worthless against the most commonly-cited foe (Russia), and would just as likely do as much damage to Scotland as to anywhere else, as seen in the Chernobyl disaster?
Don’t you dare tell me “they would have died if we DIDN’T have Trident”: really? Why isn’t everyone in Ireland dead? Or Sweden? Spain? Poland? Did Trident stop 7/7? Did Polaris stop Lockerbie? Enough of this mendacious dancing around the issue: there is ZERO justification for Trident. Zero moral, zero strategic, zero financial, zero political, zero
The truth of the matter is quite simple: this UK government has killed more British people by choosing to pay for Trident than any foreign invaders since 1945.
Britain’s decision to replace Trident was made by the Labour government in December 2006, at the same time as America’s move in that direction. Then last year, the Tory-LibDem coalition quietly renewed Britain’s longstanding nuclear weapons co-operation treaty with the US, the so-called Mutual Defence Agreement, which dates back to 1958.
The heart of this edition of the treaty is a deal to co-operate on designing warheads and reactors for the new generation of Trident subs.
The US could go it alone in submarine development, though it helps if the British taxpayer covers some of the ludicrous costs. The ultimate reason America maintains the Mutual Defence Agreement with Britain is political – to make sure the UK, as a junior partner, can never use its nukes independently of the White House.
Every Lockheed Trident D5 missile at sea today is rented from the Pentagon. Royal Navy submarines must visit the US base in Kings Bay, Georgia for the maintenance and replacement of these missiles – so much for referendum scare stories about the strategic importance of Faslane.
Britain’s part in Trident 2 is now well under way. The UK Ministry of Defence used the Christmas parliamentary recess, with media attention elsewhere, to slip out news of its latest increase in spending on the project’s “assessment phase” – a euphemism to disguise the fact parliament has not technically approved the new subs.
The MoD has sanctioned another £261 million of funding, £206m of which will be spent on new facilities at the BAE Systems shipyard at Barrow-in-Furness.
The unionist parties,are going ahead with Trident no matter what,it’s been planned for years.
Sounds to me like he is declaring war on Scotland.
Well, maybe not war but, he is threatening us.
“It is our way or the highway.”
@gillie says: 9 April, 2015 at 1:56 pm:
“The NHS is the biggest employer in Scotland. It save lives.
So, according to the last Tory Government when forced to reveal a FOI the largest employer in Scotland employs a grand total of 520 people. Yet even those figures are wrong because most of that 520 are employed by contractors and are not even based at the Clyde Base.
link to nuclearinfo.org
Been out the picture for a few months and have just started getting back on track. Sorry, if someone has said this before, but I suspect Aldi, Tesco, Lidl, Safeway (if they are still there), Co-op etc, employ more than 11000 people in Scotland…..and a few big companies that are not retail or food orientated….BP for example so how is Faslane the biggest employer in Scotland….also most of them are paid by the the UK Government directly, so they are not “employed” in Scotland….we only pay a 10% share. Seems a bit suss to me 🙂
Why is the UK so keen on hosting their Nuclear deterrent in a country full of dangerous ‘Scottish separatists’?
Who knows what radical consequences might happen if Trident is forced on us…
Oh dear, have you got out of the locked ward again? Never mind, here come those nice young men in white coats. They’ll take you away to a really safe place where no nasty foreigners can harm you. Oh FFS somebody sedate the poor sod before he self-harms.
Labour accuse Tories of taking the election into the gutter – where they found Milliband, Alexander, Murphy et al already in residence.
Um – having a problem, we’re used to the lies but can anyone find a truthful statement from the unionist parties regarding Scotland? There must be one surely.
@MJack says: 9 April, 2015 at 2:11 pm:
“If Tories and Labour want Trident then between them they can just vote it through and there’s nothing the SNP can do about it so Scottish votes won’t matter!”
You think so, MJack?
Think on this. Labour have two choices in the coming election. They accept SNP help or refuse SNP help. If they refuse they are finished forever in Scoitland and Scotland will become independent and the nukes are gone.
muttley79
Fallon seems to believe that having nuclear weapons is a defence against ISIS and Boko Harum?
_______
I think he meant Procul Harum.
We have another eejit in power who thinks suicide bombers will be put off by nukes.
Someone needs to sit this clown down and explain to him that it is more important to feed the population than to buy nukes to defend their corpses.
Regarding Trident, one of the most chilling aspects of it is what is called “Letters of Last Resort”. According to a Wikipedia article:
“… four identically-worded handwritten letters written by the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom to the commanding officers of the four British ballistic missile submarines. They contain orders on what action to take in the event that an enemy nuclear strike has destroyed the British government and has killed or incapacitated both the Prime Minister and the “second person” (normally a high-ranking member of the Cabinet) whom the Prime Minister has designated to make a decision on how to act in the event of the Prime Minister’s death. In the event that the orders were to be carried out, the action taken could be the last official act of Her Majesty’s Government.
The letters are stored inside two safes in the control room of each submarine.[2] The letters are destroyed unopened after a Prime Minister leaves office, so their content remains known to only them”
link to en.wikipedia.org
Chilling stuff.
@Graham
Spilled my beer over that PPPfff
Further to the Noam Chomsky interview posted by scottieDog @ 5:21pm.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Suppose – just suppose – a catastrophe befell one of the UK’s nuclear subs similar to that which befell the Kursk in 2000. Suppose it happened on patrol say 100 miles off Russia’s northern coast. Suppose it happened as the sub sailed past the Tail o’ the Bank.
The boffins will say, ‘oh, it’ll never happen’, but that’s what the Russian boffins said about the Kursk.
And can our friends in Ireland not demand that UK nuclear subs stop sailing through the Irish Sea?
I don’t know about ISIL or Russia, but that man terrifies me.
When neoliberal economic chickens come home, neoliberals start a war. They have form, and that is what this man is preparing us for.
If his aim is to scare me he has certainly succeeded. Get these warmongers out before they destroy us all
Michael Fallon has lost the plot. Imagine his being a Minister of Defence. The High Tories have an arrogance sense of entitlement, and disrespect for other countries. They are extremely spiteful when they are challenged or do not get their own way. They are always bullying other countries, especially those who can’t strike back.
They should put him in a sub and let him drift away. The US commands his every movement. Scotland pays £3Billion+ for Defence+ even more for illegal wars. That is where all the Oil revenues went, to London, and for illegal wars. Faslane would remain a conventional Navy base with even more jobs in Scotland. Scotland doesn’t have protection for it’s coast.
There are 400,000 Oil related jobs in the UK. Half of them in Scotland. Aberdeen based companies do oil related work all over the world. Service contracts in Australia, Norway, Middle East, Russia, US, Malaysia etc.
If you really need Trident or successor then why can it not be moved to Portsmouth and GET these weapons of mass murder out of Scotland
33 years ago tomorrow I took part in my first political demonstration, a CND march through Glasgow. How do I remember? It was my 16th birthday and, much like today has been where I now live, a gorgeous spring day.
How depressing, that, on the eve of my 49th birthday, we are still having to have the same fight. We were right then, we are right today.
The USA is the only country to use a nuclear weapon in anger; chew that and the years of suffering that followed through the after effects.
The Chinese – ‘Scotland the land of Discovery and Invention’
‘Britain a small insignificant island without Empire’.
Nurse, Fallon’s had another attack.
He has made a very good argument for supporting Iran in acquiring nuclear weapons: that country is under a much more immediate threat than we are. Alternatively all countries are at least under as much threat as we are: so they should all get them. Is that the take home message?
I honestly don’t think this is funny. I think that man gives a terrifying insight into just what this government intends to do, if we give them the chance.
Still, they can only do that if the americans let them, I suppose. So that is comforting. Oh, wait….
I wonder what proportion of the words Fallon used have the same meaning as in the Oxford English Dictionary. I gave up trying to determine his meaning when a military base became a peace camp.
Where do I start? Its not a defensive weapon its made for attack, I don’t need to tell anyone on here that.
Can anyone tell me, has Britain a missile defence system like all other nuclear equipped countries? Rationale, don’t throw stones at people with bin lids if you don’t have one yourself. Or has America said they would protect us?
The Arab Spring is suddenly wrong? Then why did we bomb the hell out of Libya, then walk away just to let fanatics run riot in the place.
The US/UK created and funded ISIS for two years, to fight in Syria. Now they are bombing them. The same in Iran (1950). Churchill took the Iranian Oil, destabilised the country and put the PM in jail. Reinstated the deposed Shah. The UK supported Iraq against Iran in the Iraq/Iranian War. They back Israel, an apartheid State who have disobeyed countless UN resolutions. They support Saudi Arabia, an absolute despot monarchy who fund terrorism.
The Balfour Agreement – Lloyd George/Lord Balfour/Lord Rothschild. The Partition of Ireland. The Irish wanted Home Rule. The Suez Crisis. The US backed Egypt. McMillian had lost the plot. India/Pakistan.The partition. Vietnam. The discredited domino theory. The US interferes in South America.
Don’t forget folks, Fallon said there is no alternative.
Now where have we heard that before?
Scary, scary stuff. Mr Fallon reminds me of a character from DR Strangelove.
Watched channel 4’s “end of the world” night at the weekend. The top ten ways the world will end. At number 1 nuclear holocaust. The most likely because of the risk that a nuclear war could easily begin by accident.
Trident is staggeringly expensive, is morally wrong, and the majority of scots don’t want it anywhere near these shores.
Vote SNP to get rid of these obscene weapons.
To understand the complexities of the “free world”s analysis is for so many a very deep betrayal of trust, do get out there and enable people to realise that they are the solution.
Big money in wars.
Selling all those weapons.
Building all those lovely shiny new subs and missiles.
Ideal for testing new weapons.
Big profits, political status, need I go on?
Then they, like Bliar, go round the world lecturing on it – even more moolah.
Is there a link for all the ‘politicians’ with fingers in the ARMS pie?
Murphy has to be in there somewhere!
Shower of lying greedy bampots.
@AndyC
It is not just the obvious profit to be made from the arms trade. War is far more useful to a neolib than that.
They trash the economy because their theory is wrong. The solutions they propose make matters worse, but that is ok for a while because their theory just happens to lead to increased wealth for them for a time. But then it ends, when they have most of the money and nobody else can buy much.
Since their theory denies that demand is essential for profits to be made, they cannot then change tack: unless there is a war. In a war you can stimulate demand through public spending in prosecuting that war, and thus achieve a keynesian type outcome without ever having to admit that you are wrong. For war is an “exceptional” event and so no lessons for peace time can be drawn, or so they say.
After you make profit from the direct things you mention you then make profit rebuilding all that you destroy. And if you are lucky you can persuade people that they cannot have much in the way of wages or goods, cos the country is devastated and they must continue to pull together, seeing we are all on the same side.
Sometimes, like after WW2, neoliberals can’t pull that trick off immediately, and so they have to accept a period of greater equality. But it doesn’t last long and they keep their eyes on the prize. The people will forget in one or two generations, so slightly lower profit is a price worth paying.
That, I fear, is the game plan. It always is…
I showed this vid to a dutch friend, and I take it all back
He said
I can speak for all of the Netherlands if I say that we are only doing trade with the UK because they have more missiles than, say, Zambia
So there we have it! The man is right: and someone in the netherlands can see it immediately. How could I miss it? How could you? 😉
Sorry. A re-post but important.
David Harvey – The Neoliberal City
link to youtube.com
Thanks for this Stu: it encapsulates Western propaganda and hypocrisy.
People here have already queried the idea that the effectiveness of the nuclear deterrent against Boko Haram, Isis etc.
Russia is subverting democracies (um, the mess in the Ukraine, and its loss of the Crimea, is a direct loss of our sponsoring a coup against a democratically elected government).
Of course the justification for having nuclear weapons applies only to us and our friends but not other states.
And for the UK, it is a question of security, not international status …
THE HONOURABLE GENTLEMAN SHOULD FALLON HIS SWORD!
It is quite sad that our once Great Britain is reduced to being a puppet of the real Organ Grinder of the Universe. The US of A, the land of the free!
In his heart of hearts even the organ grinders monkey cannot believe that a submarine skulking under the Arctic ice waiting to pounce would deter anyone MAD enough to press the first button.
He grinds out the grave threat of ISIL and SNP terrorism, yet, doesn’t that beg the question WHY he and his fellow conspirators have cut our conventional fighting forces from over 120000 to around 75000 and all but abandoned our airborne defences in Northern Britain.
What kind of strategist could possibly follow his logic that in the face of these real or imagined dangers lapping on our shores, we should divert so much money to the imaginings of a dying and desperate Institution, to the detriment of all else?
How hollow it all sounds when they could conjure up Billions to bail out the biggest Banking Fraud in history.
Military men know this but remain silent because they must be part of the great conspiracy.
How hypocritical to say we do not pay ransoms, when a blind man and his dog can see that their Masters are holding them to ransom for £100 Billion+underestimated cock ups.
The Americans and their black arts experts know our Institutions are rotten and that those at the highest level can be Impeached for all sorts of indiscretions.
Renewing THEIR Trident system is the price to pay for complicitous silence.
In the final analysis, it is reasonable to assume that it is more important to adhere to their Masters demands and perpetrate the much coveted but delusional ‘Standing in the World’ than addressing the real issue.
It all goes back to the old question, Cui Bono ‘Who benefits?’ then; just follow the money to the land of the free.
Now I’m going to tell you just one true story. I spent many years in the Rosyth Radiac Lab :- (RadioActivityDetectionIndicationAndComputation Lab. We calibrated, diagnosed faults, repaired and tested the various equipment to detect and measure radiation.
I made regular trips to the Submarines under refuelling or repair. I would take away instruments needing recalibration or repair and leave off those recently checked, repaired or recalibrated. Now the people who used those instruments were Monitors whose job it was to assure safety.
One day I dropped off a batch of just calibrated instruments and was in the process of checking the instruments already in use when a Monitor came in with an instrument that he threw violently onto a corner of the instrument store and grabbed a newly calibrated unit and set off to board the submarine. Minutes later he repeated the actions – and then again.
This time I followed on for he had just clashed down a unit I’d spent time calibrating in the High Intensity Exposure Centre. This used such high levels it was built at some distance from other areas. He’d gone off with one I’d just set aside as defective. He was busy monitoring a reactor coolant pump and I asked him what the hell he thought he was doing.
He explained he had been having trouble getting a, “GOOD”, instrument but now had one that was, “RIGHT”., (this was the one I’d just classed as defective but had not time to label before he shot off with it).
I was mystified as humans have no senses that can detect radiation and asked him how he knew the unit was , “RIGHT”. His reply, “A good monitor knows what to expect”.
I removed both of us from the suspect area and called his boss. Then we took a just calibrated instrument to the coolant pump – the reading was off the scale of a high reading unit, (indicating a unit with an even higher reading was needed). On fetching the other unit the reading was way over the danger level and that idiot had been looking for a machine that would tell him it was safe for people to work there and he had been lingering around in that danger zone while monitoring it. I honestly had never seen such a high reading outside of the High Intensity Centre.
That, folks is how really bad incidents can happen in claimed to be fail safe systems. You cannot discount human error or idiocy. Now anyone imagine things are any better in these days of private contractors?
This has Jim Messina written all over it, the influence of American Politics Strategy in the UK – follow the man at @messina2012 in the twittersphere and checkout what he’s up to! Keep your eyes open!
Britain doesn’t pay ransoms, and a Conservative government would never bow to demands from Scottish separatists
Yeah? Scottish “separatists” demanding “ransoms”… just like, oh, let’s see… terrorists and the like, eh…
Well fuck you Fallon and the rest of your rabidly rightwing neocon lying lunatics. The world would be a much better place without you xenophobic warmongers.
Oh, yes, and since you love your nuclear “deterrent” so much, do us in Scotland a big, big favour and get it to fuck out of Faslane and keep it nice and close to you and your neocon boosom buddies down in England. So, then, what’s stopping you…?
Just thought it could be a lot worse instead of Fallon it could have been Murphy. Then would been really f**ked!!!!!!!
Taught, practiced manic as per! NO fucking surprise there then :{
Michael Fallon stated by scrapping Trident Britain will face nuclear blackmail from rogue states. He might have something there. He obviously had Israel in mind as they are top of the pile in the rogue nation stakes, and worse, loaded up with a nuclear arsenal.
How perceptive his insight, well done Michael.
Saruman has spoken! Creepy b@st@rd!
Was that news or was it a PPB and can Nichola Sturgeon get an equally long live right of reply.
“The chances of anything coming from Mars is a million to one,” Micheal Fallon stated yesterday,”but still they might come.”
The only time a nuclear weapon would be launched would be;
1. If a lunatic extremist somehow got hold of the launch codes. It is unlikely that the UK’s puny nukes would be a “deterrent” to someone like that.
2. An accident or false alarm. Again, the big black dildos in the Clyde wouldn’t be helping anybody.
3. Attack from a supernatural or extraterrestrial source. Even this would require earth’s nations to co-operate, and the UK would not have enough to make much difference.
They are all ready working on the replacements.
It’s all based on the usual scenario of an escalating situation. This would give time to get the at sea sub in and bomed up and the second sub out. It is only possible to put two to sea at any one time as the other two are off line for maintenance. Once they have fired their load then they are dead ducks. Target is still Russia. It is a dooms day weapon nothing more.
Money would be far better spent on conventional weapons and troops. UK only has the subs because France has them.
I did sign the official secrets act but fuck them. They can’t shoot you or make you pregnant. Or can they.
If you want weapons of mass destruction move them to Plymouth or Porstmouth or even the Thames but we don’t want them in Scotlan
In the eyes of the Unionists it is perfectly acceptable to park their weapons of mass destruction within a few miles of one of Scotland’s largest cities and most densely populated areas.
I DON’T FUCKIN THINK SO!
Away and play with your deadly dildos along England’s south coast.
Park them up the Thames, that should deter London being attacked, eh!
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