The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


A sequence of events

Posted on April 09, 2015 by

Last night the not-noticeably-cybernat Liberal Democrat Voice website declared that a young woman in the audience of the STV leaders’ debate, professing herself to be an undecided who’d been “totally convinced” by Jim Murphy to vote Labour, appeared to be the same person as one who’d previously appeared in Labour leaflets.

Then this happened.

“MisssyM” is Gillian Martin, a WFI member, who called on independence supporters NOT to attack the young woman in question, even if the claims made by (pro-Union) Liberal Democrat Voice turned out to be true, which it looks like they weren’t.

At which point, enter Blair McDougall of Scottish Labour and former campaign director of “Better Together”, who retweeted the above tweet and then inexplicably chose to characterise it as doing exactly the opposite of what it actually said.

And then irony took over.

Blair McDougall, ladies and gentlemen. We’re sure, of course, that he’ll take personal responsibility for all those Unionists heaping idiotic abuse on Gillian Martin, just like he endlessly demanded Alex Salmond did for every unhinged pro-Yes nutter during the indyref. He will, won’t he? Blair? Hello?

[EDIT 11.30am: Nope, amazingly he’ll somehow blame it on us.]

bmtypes

——————————————————————————————————-

APPENDIX

Tweets from the young woman in question.

dawnrodger

Print Friendly

    2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 09 04 15 12:04

      A sequence of events | Politics Scotland | Sco...

    2. 09 04 15 12:36

      A sequence of events | Speymouth

    150 to “A sequence of events”

    1. One_Scot says:

      The man represents everything I despise about the union.

    2. Blackhack says:

      Aye, they’re sneaky, But not sneaky enough…By attacking MissyM, They’re trying to distract the people from the fact that the wee lassie was a labour plant, and only there to make Dim Jim look good….You just can’t do that sort of thing these days with the internet and social media….We’re a lot more informed than the politicians give us credit for…No doubt labour will now complain about the Vile SNP demonising a poor wee lassie…

    3. Donald MacKenzie says:

      Blair? Are you there?

    4. Mosstrooper says:

      Hold on! Putting a young woman in the position of lying to the people of Scotland is OK. Pointing out that same young woman is lying is bad? Then rounding on the person who points out the liar and attacking her with vile abuse is deemed acceptable

      What kind of twisted logic is that?

      Ohh, listen to me, conflating unionists and logic. What am I like?

    5. gillie says:

      Labourites pretending to be ordinary punters?

      NEVER!

    6. muttley79 says:

      This SNP out brigade are completely demented. They are obsessed with calling opponents fascists and Nazis. of course, when people like Alastair Darling and Ian Smart have done it as well, then there can be no surprise that those further down the SLAB and unionist food chain do the same.

    7. Murray McCallum says:

      Campaign leader Blair McDougall is on course to set a new benchmark for political party collapses in General Elections.

      His input to political discourse will reap what it has earned at the ballot box.

    8. gordoz says:

      From experience – all the mouthy ‘ruck’ starters – usually the first to run away.

      Anyone heard from Blair ??

    9. pa_broon74 says:

      Sometimes all you can do is sigh.

    10. Patrick Roden says:

      Just looking at the young woman on twitter and she seem to be saying something that is very worrying and telling about Labour and Jim Murphy.

      She says that she agreed with everything that Nicola was saying but when asked for an opinion she felt scared (she didn’t know why) and panicked, and said she agreed with Jim.

      Why is a young woman so intimidated by Labour and shouting, snarling Jim Murphy, that she is frightened to say she supported another party?

      Can the reaction in these tweets by Blair McDougal and bunch of vile cyberbritz be the answer?

      Are the Labour Party, Daily record, BBC, Daily Telegraph proud of the fact, that their constant intimidation of people who express the view that they want Scotland to determine our own future, has lead to teenagers being frightened to admit this publicly?

      McDougal wont answer this of course, he and his Lickspittle Labour friends will simply crawl back into the gutter whence they climbed.

    11. heedtracker says:

      What a clown MacDougal is. That sudden amazing vote convert Murphy was obviously a plant and creepy Murphy’s rehearsed reply was just as phoney. “I BELIEVE in you Jim!”

      The real issue is not that they think they can get away with these SLabour circus acts, but why they are so compelled to con people like this in such a important general election.

    12. roddy says:

      The question is- Is this woman a labour plant? If so, then Blair Mcdougall’s “mob attack on a young woman.” tweet is just a cynical attempt to distract attention from Labours previous cynical attempt to deceive the electorate. It is not hard to discern a McDougall/McTernan Labour modus operandi here.

    13. Tam O'Shanter says:

      They can’t even employ a decent thespian to lie for them.

      Christ, Labour are hopeless.

    14. Lollysmum says:

      O/T sorry Rev

      Really good interview with Alex Salmond on Commonspace. Not the usual surface scraping questions but some really good in depth ones. Congrats to both Alex & Commonspace.

      https://commonspace.scot/articles/956/exclusive-alex-salmond-interview-yes-campaign-will-return-with-stronger-economic-case

    15. Capella says:

      So this young woman felt intimidated into backing Jim Murphy on the night although she is a “massive fan of everything Nicola says”. Then MissyM is attacked by Blair MacDougall for calling Labour tactics shameful.

      Shines a light into how this televised vote Labour fest is shaping up.

    16. ClanDonald says:

      Sorry, I’m confused, can someone clarify, is she the same woman as the one in the photo with the labour sign?

      I’m getting the impression she’s not a plant and wasn’t set up by Labour but just felt pressure on the night to back them against her will. Is this correct?

    17. frankieboy says:

      Tuba man is exactly what he looks like and represents. A big bully. Then he hides.

    18. Big Jock says:

      Guys look at them they are desperate. If they are putting a young person on a TV programme to try and win votes by lying. It speaks volumes for them. They are losing and badly.

      Everyone who saw the conversion of Fatima! Could see it was the worst ham acting since Sean Connery in Darby O’Gill.

      It’s actually so tragic that you want to take them aside and offer some care in the community. As for Blair McDougal and McTernan. They thought they won the referendum for the no side. They did’t! McDogall started with a 30% lead and left with a 10% lead!

    19. Cath says:

      Whether she is or isn’t a plant, it was pretty clear the way this would go as soon as someone posted those two pictures on SM. This is the modus operandi of McTernan/McDougll/Murphy and their unionist media. They have nothing else.

      So FFS, stop plying into it.

    20. The Man in the Jar says:

      @ClanDonald

      I’m with you on that. I think there are some comments above from people who have not read the entire article. 🙁

    21. orri says:

      With that additional information it seems Murpy’s impact on a lassie already under pressure was to blurt out her support for him regardless of how much garbage he’d just spouted. IF anything it just illustrates how much of an image problem he has. He does all the sweet reasonable I weally wuv you bullshit until he doesn’t get his way then he explodes into a shouting mainiac. Unfortunately his main targets seem to be women.

    22. desimond says:

      What is it with the name Blair!!

    23. O/T – sorry

      Stu, can I use the pages of your magnificent organ to proffer my profound commiserations to the good folks of Sussex.

      The news that they have discovered a billion barrels of ‘frackable’ oil under their feet, now presents them with some serious challenges in how to deal with this liability.

      Firstly, any contribution this oil makes to your economy will render you dependent on a finite resource, that’s no way to run things.

      Secondly, any contribution this oil makes to your economy will fluctuate in value with the market price. Although all commodities fluctuate in price (from onions to steel) when it’s oil, it’s really, really bad.

      Thirdly, whilst a billion barrels sounds like a lot of oil, it could run out by next Tuesday meaning London would have to go to the IMF.

      I’d leave it where it is and continue to derive your income from ‘ripping off’ other countries and speculating on the money markets. That’s the only way to derive a sustainable future for your citizens in the face of this sad discovery.

      Don’t take my word for it, you need only to look at that ‘basket case’, Norway to see how bad this situation could become.

    24. H Scott says:

      Labour seemingly adhering to the view that the best form of defence is attack.

    25. Fiona says:

      It seems the woman in question is telling us she is not a labour plant: I have no reason to disbelieve her.

      What is interesting is that this is the very first actual example of the “vile cybernat abuse” I have actually seen, despite how frequently it is claimed and despite the fact that many making the claim have been asked to give examples or to back up what they say

      So here we have it: and it is not abuse at all. The abuse would be the responses from the unionists

      Funny that.

    26. Mike says:

      OK so lets get this straight;

      if the lib dems single an individual out for criticism they are pursuing the democratic process.

      if labour single out an individual for criticism they are pursuing the democratic process.

      if the SNP draw attention to the fact that an individual has been singled out for criticism by labour or the libdems they are vile cybernat Nazi’s, fascists of questionable lineage and perverts.

      Ok Got it.

      A bit like yesterday when the Herald deleted one of my posts when I hinted that a poster who said that the “FM deserves to be abused” might be a troll. I wish the rules were available to prevent this sort of mistake re-occurring.

    27. muttley79 says:

      Any voter in Scotland should be able to feel free to say who they support without getting abuse.

    28. Big Jock says:

      Yep I think we need to stop playing these McTernan games. It seems it is a rinse and repeat of the referendum. Stick an innocent civilian out to be shot down by the Nats. Then go to the press and complain that the said person has been abused.Modus Operandi indeed!

    29. HandandShrimp says:

      Mike

      I think you have got it in one

      SNP = Bad

    30. Dr Jim says:

      Maybe the plan is to make the whole question of voting for anyone so toxic the population will switch off shut up and the Nasty Nats will just go away and give up
      leaving the sneaky slimy Labourites a clear field to slip in when no one is looking and do to us what they’ve always done

      The policy of divide and divide until there’s no will left to continue

      Djae think it’ll wurk Blairy Boy

      Dae yur wurst

    31. ErinT says:

      All of this is really sad and pathetic. It bothers me massively that only one side is ever vilified for how it acts while the other, spurred on by prominent party figures and individuals like McDougall and Hothersall through backhanded suggestions and prompts is able to encourage vitriolic and hateful language.

      I wish people like that weren’t involved in politics. It is so off putting. I think you need to have a really thick skin to come out in support of independence as anything negative will automatically be the fault of “nationalists”… despite it coming from the Lib Dems…

      The conversation can’t continue like this. People on both sides needs to be called out for such behaviour yet hatred from the unionist side is so often ignored.

    32. MSM and Labours’ antics mean we have to win 4 – 0, just to get a draw.

      Trouble for them, is we’re 5 – 0 up, thanks, in part, to two own goals from Carmichael and McDougal.

      Murphy could get booked if he doesn’t stop shouting at the referee.

    33. Harry McAye says:

      Seems it’s not the same girl. Her skin tone does look different tbf. Glad that one woman who called her a rude name apologised on twitter. We must not give the media and the other parties any cybernat ammunition. If they can’t take polite criticism that’s their problem but any actual abuse plays right into their hands.

    34. ErinT says:

      Why is Hothersall retweeting stuff like this:

      https://twitter.com/euro_pete/status/586114626456317952

      https://twitter.com/dhothersall/status/586107871559077888
      (Not sure he has read or understood the article on Wings…)

      https://twitter.com/dhothersall/status/586082982571724801
      (Let’s just forget all the lies and smears from one side – it’s fine cause they ain’t cybernats!)

      None of that even begins to help the situation and is just angling for cheap attacks against others.

      If this is the quality of people that are actually hoping to be elected into a position of political power then the system is utterly bonkers and broken.

    35. Karmanaut says:

      @ClanDonald

      No, it’s not the same girl. She’s been on twitter this morning. She isn’t a Labour plant.

      When put under pressure on TV all she said was that she might vote for Labour. That’s completely irrelevant, because obviously she has the RIGHT to vote however she wants, the right to change her mind, or not.

      People were annoyed at Labour because they have a history of using stooges. And they thought Labour had used this young girl – which would have been a cringeworthy thing for them to do.

      But they didn’t do that in this case.

    36. K1 says:

      I actually think seriously that he just doesn’t ‘get it’.

      And even if he did, there is no conscience there to prevent him from acting out. I think he must
      experience a sensation approximating ‘pleasurable malevolence’ in the decision making part of his psyche. This ‘allows’ him free reign over his very questionable actions.

      He ‘thinks’ it’s all part of the ‘political’ game, and therefore has rationalised despicable behaviours so long as they fit with his brief of ‘chief manipulator’ for his bosses.

      There is nothing he wouldn’t do to get a pat on the head from daddy. Probably at the expense of mummy by the looks of it. A guy wi serious issues imo.

    37. Craig P says:

      So, going by the lassie’s tweets, not a plant or a Labour member?

      I would have thought we’d been down this ‘brown-haired woman looks similar to another one’ road recently enough that people would have shown a bit more circumspection.

      Ach well, that’s why I don’t twitter.

    38. Lollysmum says:

      I feel sorry for the girl. She was used & abused by Labour. They knew that she’d be identified at some stage-it would have been a miracle if she hadn’t been.

      She was set up in the hope that she would be attacked on Twitter so they could make political capital out of her being abused. Blair McDougall was waiting to pounce as soon as she was identified so that he had evidence to back up their claims of online abuse from Yessers.

      Several members of the press have been asking for examples of abuse on Twitter for the last few days but no one seems to be able to come up with any supposedly sent by indy supporting twitterati. #SNPouters seem to be the main protagonists just now & all just appear to be barking. In real life, you would want to avoid such clearly ‘not quite right’ people.

      Shame on you McDougall, Murphy, McTernan & the rest of your rabble. Gutter politics from people who belong in the gutter.

      To the young girl-don’t let this put you off voting for who you believe in. Your vote is important & you ought to feel able to say that my vote is not for sale. Don’t be afraid to speak up against such antics as this is how, historically, the big parties have controlled the electorate. If they get away with it with you then they go on to try the same with others.

      As it is, credit is due to you for actually tweeting what happened at the debate. Everyone watching suspected you were coached on what to say but only you could prove it was so. Thank you for that & well done 🙂

    39. ErinT says:

      @CraigP

      Exactly. Twitter seems like an absolute cess pit at times. Both sides are so keen to jump on the other. I don’t think there is anything wrong with suggesting someone is a plant, has a fake moustache, staged the moon landings or whatever but if they deny it and the supporting evidence is flimsy then the matter should be put to rest and abuse should never be targeted at the people in question anyway.

      Of course, that doesn’t happen. See the Sturgeon memo.

    40. call me dave says:

      Working where no access to pc (lunch time) catching up.

      No surprise ‘again’ to the labour party trying to get an edge.
      Almost always, even if they have a reasoable case to put their nature is to cheat.

      Feel sorry that the labour bullying and / or fear of speaking out in public about what your heart and head are saying is beyond some folk.

      As for the ‘professional’ labour politicians involved shame on you all.

      Back to work …feeling better having read the thread. 🙂

    41. Dr Jim says:

      You probably all know of course that Jim Murphy assaulted 18 women while at Uni and 14 of them were women who refused to accept sweeties from him
      There were other charges related to the bullying of women who refused to sniff glue with him
      Police were called on one occasion when Mr Murphy attempted to extract meat from one young girls mouth because she ate in front of him
      Mr Murphys defense was one of “He just happened to be passing and tried to save her from a life of meat eating folly”
      No charges were ever lodged due to Mr Murphys diminished responsibility at the time as he had just failed his Qualli
      again

      This is a spoof (Don’t start)

    42. Johnny says:

      O/T Leaflet through the door urging me to re-elect Jim Sheridan. Usual set of ‘ordinary’ talking heads giving testimonials within, with all three appearing to have close links with the Labour party (as per quick Google).

      I wouldn’t mind if the leaflet said something like ‘testimonials from Labour party supporters in the constituency about why he is the best candidate’. It’s this pretence at neutrality and pushing the idea that they are not activists (though one does mention community campaigning, links with Labour are not made clear).

    43. Grouse Beater says:

      Here’s how the Establishment treats supporters of self-determination:

      http://wp.me/p4fd9j-1ai

    44. onelessday says:

      I’m finding this difficult to follow

      Did the young girl put her hand up wishing to ask a question or was her contribution preplanned or did they somehow just pick her out of the crowd and stick the mike in her face?I don’t remember

      I felt sorry for her at the time as she was obviously overcome by nerves

      Jims facial contortions freaked me out and I was miles away

    45. robertknight says:

      Quick, somebody double the cream bun and fizzy pop order for Branch HQ – Blair needs his fix before he can coax Murphy back out from under his desk.

      How does an “undecided” end up gracing a SLAB propaganda pamphlet yet claim to be just a poor, confused wee soul who is in reality an SNP supporter?

      Break out the bovine manure detector for I can detect a faint whiff of something noxious.

    46. Big Jock says:

      I am not playing McTernan’s game. The loser always wants to draw the winner back down with them.

    47. rog_rocks says:

      I have screenshots of the girl on the debate and then behind Murphy on Reporting Scotland earlier in the day, is it her?

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/96321122@N03/17087168045/

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/96321122@N03/17087168145/

    48. manandboy says:

      When The Prime Minister, David Cameron,
      hired John McTernan and Blair McDougall
      to direct the No Campaign,
      he knew exactly what he was doing.

      Cameron knew that he could not win the Referendum by playing ‘fair’,
      so he brought in sewer dwellers like McTernan & McDougall,
      whose speciality is ‘smear and fear’,
      and who will trash the lives of anyone who stands in their way,
      without batting an eyelid.

      David Cameron, the prime Minister, is responsible for this.
      He is the CEO of UK Plc, and anything big and important,
      must be run past him before it gets the go ahead.

      It is Cameron who has set the standard for Union Politics.
      It is at a level where you have to drill down to reach it,
      it is so low.

      Down there, with McTernan & crew, in the political sewer,
      respect, civility, courtesy, etiquette, tolerance and self-control,
      are all choked to death by the stench of the verbal excrement
      and bile which the Unionist PR people produce every day.

      The ‘Better Together’ campaign has not ceased for even a minute.
      The same team remain almost intact, supported by the Tories
      and probably funded by them as well.

      So the very low tone of this GE15 campaign
      is all we can expect; and it is unlikely to change in the future.

      Thatcher opened the door to neo-Liberalism in ’79.

      Cameron has ushered in the era of ‘Yob Politics’ since 2013.

      On the BBC Leaders debate last night,
      it was there in full view
      for everyone to see.

      YOBUKOK – Cameron’s baby.

    49. Phil Robertson says:

      Karmanaut says:
      No, it’s not the same girl. She’s been on twitter this morning. She isn’t a Labour plant.

      Exactly. Time for Msssy M to apologise to the girl and to the “desperadoes” that she libelled.

    50. thoughtsofascot says:

      Im gonna chime in here. The SNPout brigade are pretty much Stormfront UK. Same types of people doing the rounds there. Similar arguments and heaps upon heaps of racism, bigotry, misogyny and homophobia. I’ve perused their pages and came to the conclusion that they are pretty sick in the head. I would even hazard that they make stormfront look extremely liberal in comparison (and thats a frickin white supremacist website!). Thats how utterly insane the SNPout brigade is.

    51. HandandShrimp says:

      onelessday

      I am finding this one hard to follow too.

      LibDems say she is plant, WFI say disgraceful if true but don’t attack the lassie.

      Then weirdo pouter freaks go mental at WFI (accusing them of being men by the looks of it) and McDougall says Down with sort of thing…nasty cybernats boo hiss.

      In the meantime, the lassie says I was put on the spot and panicked and I actually like Nicola.

      The world gets weirder every day.

    52. Ken500 says:

      What? She voted YES and is undecided, but told the world she’s vote for Jim.

      A moment in the spotlight does terrible things. The nurse who was not a model, but was really an actress. The model who was not really an actress but was a nurse, who lived with a Labour candidate. Or something.

      Labour cries Wolf, again. No wonder no one believes a word they say. Liars.

      Gillian Martin is a really nice quine. It won’t bother her.

    53. Heather McLean says:

      He does all the sweet reasonable I weally wuv you bullshit until he doesn’t get his way then he explodes into a shouting mainiac. Unfortunately his main targets seem to be women.

      I would totally agree with this statement, from what I’ve seen of Murphy over the course of the Referendum campaign and since as “leader” of the Labour branch office, he seems to have little respect for women, not for the first time he has shouted down women who have dared to question him, he was so rude to both Nicola and Ruth in the “debate” on Monday night, constantly interrupting, talking over and making snide comments!
      He really is an abhorrent individual and misogynist!

      From what I can discern from reading the young girl’s Twitter , she was backed into a corner and flustered when she said she was backing Murphy and Labour.
      I wonder who was applying the intimidation and pressure though? She says “THEY pretty much said I had to” who are “THEY” she refers to? Was it the BBC or was it some of Murphys cohorts?
      I noticed watching it on iplayer( because I refuse to pay for a tv licence) that she was very nervous, fluffed her question and appeared to turn to someone – presumably her mother who dragged her along – to remind her what she had to say!
      I feel sorry for her – whoever was to blame for this – she was set up and is now vilified and ridiculed on social media! Well done Rev and Wings for bringing to light the other side of the girls story by showing her Twitter feed!

    54. It seems to me that Blair McDougall is using young women either by intimidation/coercive persuasion or controlled systematic indoctrination as lightning rods to go out and say some obvious lie that will be picked up by the opposition and lead to condemnation of the young women.

      He or McTernan/MSM can then attack the opposition as being nasty cybernats etc.

      Clare Lally
      Nurse/actor
      The Labour convert young lady.

    55. Marie clark says:

      Folks, the wee lassie says she’s was not a plant. Panic set in when she was asked her views.

      Let’s all give her the benefit of the doubt and leave it there please.

      We seen all of this during the referendum and they are at it again. Don’t play, leave McDougall and McTernan tae there any wee dark world. Yuck.

    56. Ken500 says:

      It was the LibDems who started it. They get enough abuse already.

    57. gordoz says:

      Its not all bad though –

      At least we know what’ll be the big story on the State Broadcaster and its we brother network (with ‘honest John’ Ponsonby) tonight after Blair gets on the phone to his mates at the Top.

      Let me see could it be Cybernat attack dogs round on defenceless young lady undecided who opts for miracle worker in charge of Labour Branch office North.

      REMEBER folks its not cricket to say anything bad about Labour at all – ever. Never ever. Never ever ever.

      TV is all about Nasty Nicola Nat threat to Nice British Nation peoples.

      TRIDENT GOOD – SNP BAD , VERY BAD. Burnie hot bad.

    58. Helena Brown says:

      This is a wee lassie being exploited by unscrupulous people of course we will not attack her, in fact the Lib Dems should not have attracted attention to her. I caught a glimpse of this on Wings Twitter page this morning and wondered as you do first think in the morning what the hell this was about.
      Have to say that if Labour want to be seen as having clean hands they should stay away from bairns.

    59. BenInsular says:

      For the benefit of those who haven’t read Stu’s article fully before commenting and jumped the gun, there is nothing on that young woman’s Twitter feed before the debate to indicate that she has had any particular interest in politics in the past.

      I have no reason to believe she’s a plant, and nobody else has any evidence of that.

      Indeed, she now describes herself as still “undecided”, an admirer of Nicola Sturgeon, and has explained how she ended up at the debate against her will (mum wanted company), then panicked when put on the spot in front of a large audience and blurted out her supposed support of the last person who spoke (Murphy). It all rings true.

      I’m pleased to see that many SNP supporters (including Nicola herself) are currently on her Twitter feed offering her support and comfort.

      If you want to switch her from being “undecided” to either not voting or voting Labour, while shooting yourselves in the foot, then keep up the “plant” allegations.

    60. Fluckmeister says:

      I looked at the photo of the girl in the audience(hereafter AG), and compared it with the photo of the girl in the Labour leaflet(hereafter LG) and they are not the same person.
      AG’s skin tone is darker than LG who is very pale.
      AG’s face tapers to a pointed chin, whilst LG’s jawline and chin are fuller.
      AG’s eyebrows arch closer together whilst LG’s are spaced further apart.
      There IS a resemblance, but they are most definitely not the same person. This is a case of mistaken identity.
      I think that everyone involved, regardless of their political persuasion should apologise to the poor girl for stressing her out so much.

    61. Ken500 says:

      Murphy attack the student leader who supported education. Sent her abusive, threatening letters.

    62. gordoz says:

      @Phil Robertson – on such a point

      Nothing for the Unionist side to apologise about then recently ?

      BBC, Sky, ITV no biggies

    63. heedtracker says:

      Also interesting is watching how quickly gits like Murphy and MacDougal can slip into all out agent provocateur mode and not the sexy lingerie way.

      A lot of SLabour activists are unemployable twits and chancers with laptops, like oor Duncan H but they are currently all over the web calling SNP candidate Mhairi Black a thug, which by any standards, is pretty heavy on any 20 year old women.

      This could well be the end of not just Labour regime control of Scotland but UK.gov itself. Like all regimes on their way out, they will leave behind as much harm as they possibly can.

    64. gillie says:

      rog_rocks says: I have screenshots of the girl on the debate and then behind Murphy on Reporting Scotland earlier in the day, is it her?

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/96321122@N03/17087168045/

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/96321122@N03/17087168145/

      That looks like the same person to me.

    65. Heather McLean says:

      The young lass even tweeted that “when I came out my dad even said I wanted to reach in the TV and slap you” .
      Given his reaction it sounds to me that her dad was an Indy supporter and possibly an SNP supporter who was annoyed at his daughter saying she would vote Labour!

      Fear and panic makes people do things they know in their heart they don’t really want to – like vote NO in referendums for instance!

    66. Heather McLean says:

      Gillie – in my opinion definitely NOT the same person

    67. Dal Riata says:

      I didn’t even want to ask a question… because I’m a first time voter they pretty much said I had to…

      A bit odd. Presumably some kind of questionnaire was given to those offered attendance (?)… with a question asking if the attendee was a first-time voter…

      If the girl is saying that she “had to” ask a question then that’s a bit rubbish from STV, and sounds more like bullying than anything else. It seems that they were going to get that ‘first-time voter’ question no matter what.

      Reading her further comments, I tend to feel sorry for her.

      She says she didn’t even want to go but was made to by her mother wanting company. Then, to find out that she “had to” ask a question from an auduence in a live TV studio debate to politicians that was being aired to millions of people, it’s hardly surprising that she was nervous.

      As to her response to Ponsonby’s question put to her, she says, I just panicked… I just want what’s best for Scotland… which is very understandable, she’s young, she was nervous and, perhaps, just wanted to get the whole pressure-filled experience over with. We’ve all done it, where we’ve been in certain situations where you babble any verbal garbage that gets the situation – and the pressure – over and done with.

      As forJudas McDougall, he is an odious, hate-filled British unionist ("Quizmaster" - Ed) taking his paymasters’ silver in his sweaty palms to do down his own country and its people – a ("Tractor" - Ed) who deserves disrespect from everyone, from those who view him as an integral part of the cabal which deprived them of their country’s independnce, to his own masters who will despise him for being so easily bought.

    68. ClanDonald says:

      OK, so she’s not a plant and wasn’t used by Labour?

      So why are folks on here still claiming she is?

      Get a grip folks.

    69. Kevin Evans says:

      Hmmm – a lot of folk mentioning bbc in there comments about this incident. Can I remind everyone it was broadcast on STV not bbc.

    70. Dr Jim says:

      @Grouse Beater 11.54am

      Enjoyed that enormously, a pleasure to read

      Thank you

    71. heedtracker says:

      BenInsular says:
      9 April, 2015 at 12:12 pm
      For the benefit of those who haven’t read Stu’s article fully before commenting and jumped the gun,

      Those like you. The whole point of the post is clearly focused on the appalling reaction and conduct by one of the bosses of the SLabour 2015 general election campaign, Bliar MacDougal.

      Way to miss the point BenInsular

    72. Kevin Evans says:

      I agree heedtrackee that it’s pretty hypocritical to attack mhairi black but then mke comments on another political party (lib dems) making comments about a girl similar in age.

    73. K1 says:

      O/T From Rev’s twitter feed:

      “Stewart Hosie rules out “confidence and supply” without agreement with Labour on Trident renewal.”

      Game On.

    74. Stoker says:

      I SMELL SHITE! And its coming from MacPoodle.

      He’s a bloated coward of the highest order.

      He and his ilk love nothing more than using and abusing females.

      Come out come out wherever you are, filthy sewer dweller.

    75. Alex Waugh says:

      I’ve read Dawn’s tweets in the appendix and if they are true then I have nothing but sympathy for her. She says that she was put on the spot and she panicked. I doubt there’s a person anywhere who hasn’t done that. I really hope that she is exactly what she seems – a nervous youngster thrown in at the deep end. What’s really at issue is how we give young voters the confidence to state their views clearly and without fear; having a go at a wee lassie is not going to do that.

      It’s a shame Missy M jumped in when she did: it would have been much more fun to let LibDem Voice run with it on their own and let them take the flak, though I notice they’re not getting it in the neck as much as us ‘cybernats’. It may even have been deliberate bait for an already angry and frustrated people and, although I know it’s hard not to rise to the bait, given the establishment’s disgraceful record over the past few years, it’s best to leave such tender morsels alone when they are dangled, for there’s a cold, steel hook hidden inside them. Wiser just to shrug and say, ‘And…?’ and give them nothing for their fishing trip.

      Even if she was a plant (which I rather doubt) would it not be better to reach out to her than start shouting ‘Liar!’. She’s just a wee fish in a big dirty pond, much better to go after those who have muddied the waters – reacting to her personally is a distraction from the real battle and a gift to the likes of MacDougal. Ignoring her would have put the kibbosh on any plot and completely defused MacDougal et al., who were just waiting to be ‘outraged’. Anyway, so what? Is anybody honestly going to change their vote based on one young girl’s nervous stutters? Thought not.

      My instinct? Leave her well alone: if she’s genuine that’s the decent thing to do, if she’s not she’s maybe had enough of a fright to be more sensible next time and think long and hard about the people she associates with. Either way, she’s not the problem.

    76. Famous15 says:

      O/T but perhaps not.

      The SNP website gets a negative dangerous rating by Avast Antivirus. Obviously a BRITNAT attack so if you use Avast software please give a positive rating if you search on SNP.

    77. gordoz says:

      This site is full of Wings types according to the Luca Brasi

    78. Kevin Evans says:

      Just had a quick look at “snpout” Twitter to get an idea of what’s being said.

      2 interesting posts calling 2 snp candidates “tarts” and another called an snp mp a “tosser”.

      Still nasty cydernats we are on wings huh.

    79. Joemcg says:

      She seemed very nervous and was almost shiteing herself on camera. Felt sorry for her until she blurted out the I’m voting for big Jim spiel!

    80. HandandShrimp says:

      The remarkable thing about this is not the understandable panic that the young lass had being put on the spot but the increasingly deranged vomit pouring from the Pouters. They sound desperate and angry.

      What a shame…I wonder if Blair is a member of that happy throng.

    81. caz-m says:

      Dawn Roger at the STV debate (Youtube),

      15.27 mins-Dawn asks the panel a question, sitting beside mum.

      17.59 mins-Cameraman pans over to Dawn and mum again.

      21.20 mins-Dawn gives Jim Murphy her full backing and will be voting Labour.

      36.19 mins-Final pan in by cameraman on Dawn.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sot6fr3TREk

    82. Harry McAye says:

      Rev, are you able to lock a thread? This pish has been going on long enough now.

    83. John Dickson (@NkosiEcosse) says:

      @ Mike says:

      The Herald has banned for calling a certain cretin from Woking a sad excuse for a dil**. Never mind that he is incessantly calling for Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon to be all matter of horrible things.

    84. John Dickson (@NkosiEcosse) says:

      should have read “banned me”. No edit function it seems?

    85. G. Campbell says:

      roddy says:
      “The question is- Is this woman a labour plant?”

      gillie says:
      That looks like the same person to me.

      No, no, no. The girl photographed at the Labour launch and the young woman from the STV debate are different people.

      Patrick Roden says:
      Why is a young woman so intimidated by Labour and shouting, snarling Jim Murphy, that she is frightened to say she supported another party?”

      She was nervous and wasn’t expecting to be asked for a response after Jim spoke. As she says on her twitter account: “I turned to my mum and said why the fuck did I just say that and we laughed!” That’s why her “you’ve totally convinced me” was so, um, unconvincing. It happens to everybody when you’re in a bit of a panic, especially when you’ve got a camera pointed at you.

      Anwyay, she seems like a nice lady and she was obviously gutted when Scotland voted No. Here’s some of her tweets from last year.

      Sep 17
      “It’s utterly embarrassing that Scotland are even hesitating on this matter. #WhyChange? #whyno?!”

      Sep 17
      “Had a full blown argument with my mums friend today because he was voting no.. Literally stormed away from him screaming “YOURE BRAINWASHED””

      Sep 18:
      retweeted: “For the first time in my life I don’t even feel Scottish. I feel like an outcast. Thank you people of Scotland, you’ve taken away my pride.”

      Sep 19
      “Feel like shit, disappointed and embarrassed. Just been paid so going to do some retail therapy.”

      She felt our pain, guys. Give her some love.

    86. Joemcg says:

      Why are the Brit Nats so angry, panicking and afraid after winning the vote? It’s a mystery.

    87. BenInsular says:

      @ heedtracker

      “Way to miss the point BenInsular”

      It would be great if the focus was indeed on “the appalling reaction and conduct by one of the bosses of the SLabour 2015 general election campaign, Bliar MacDougal”. The danger is that it won’t be.

      Read your own and others’ earlier comments upthread perpetuating the allegation (“That sudden amazing vote convert Murphy was obviously a plant” from you – to be generous, manybe Stu posted an update before you and others made similar allegations – I’d already looked at the young woman’s Twitter feed, so the tweets he reproduced came as no surprise). I believe that counts as “jumping the gun”, and anyone coming to this cold is likely to focus on that, not Blair MacDougal’s latest craven, nefarious brainfart, which is hardly a surprising turn of events.

      Bear in mind that not everyone has the time and patience and energy to read a whole comments thread (let alone, apparently, a whole post): they may just read the first few comments or skip to the end of the thread, taking away whatever impression their skimming gave them.

      Then we can maybe extend the discussion to the concerted horrible personal trolling of Mhairi Black, Natalie McGarry etc. etc. on Twitter and Facebook without looking like hypocrites, as MacDougal does.

    88. Angus says:

      British establishment led, Soviet styled media folks, but social media debunks the lies, wonder if they will try and control it also?

    89. HandandShrimp says:

      We all have those “I don’t believe I just agreed to/ said that” moments.

      Dawn sounds like a good egg. Having the preacher from Poltergeist giving you the beady eye would panic anyone.

      I agree G Campbell some love from the Wings side wouldn’t go amiss….obviously not to the Pouters though 🙂

    90. caz-m says:

      O/T

      Andrew Neil interviewing Stewart Hosie on the Daily Politics show about Trident Missiles and NATO membership, getting very frustrated at Stewarts’s answers, has to be told by Stewart, “don’t get angry Andrew, don’t get angry”.

      Brilliant Stewart.

      I thought Andrew Neil’s head was going to explode. He does go a rather bright shade of red when he isn’t getting his own way.

    91. BrianW says:

      I’m sure i don’t remembers Blair’s outrage when Natalie McGarry’s tweets and movements were tracked by certain folk – who Blair was the spokesperson for.

      No, that was a case of nothing to see here.. move along now.. Just a young lady being stalked and trolled on..

      But, my, what is this? A fact? How dare they discuss facts! I need to smear this discussion at once and highlight their bullying and intimidating Nazi ways. Now, where’s Torquils number.. ah, there we are Speed Dial No.1..

    92. bookie from hell says:

      Ive lived 20 years same address,1st time my personal name on a election leaflet labour

      Edinburgh South West

      (opens)

      Dear resident

      “We need to put referendum behind us”

    93. Kenny says:

      I feel sorry for the lass and just goes to show that political debate is being turned into a bread-and-circus thing by the media. Why should a young lass be put on the spot, made to feel uncomfortable? She could hardly say: now let me think things over slowly and weigh up the various positions, especially with regard to what they have promised in their election manifestoes and what has been said tonight….

      Voting is not about making snap decisions under the glare of a tv camera. So why is the media turning it into a circus? A poor wee lass just wanted to learn more about the decisions which affect HER OWN LIFE and she is now probably wishing she had never done so at all.

      Athenian democracy got on perfectly well without soundbites and tv cameras. If they had used the UK media approach, we would never have had Greek philosophy and would possibly still be communicating in grunts and shouts (certain branch managers still are).

      Hopefully when we reclaim our independence and media and all the rest, we can see well-mannered, reasoned and interesting debates between the likes of Sturgeon and Harvie, with no interruptions, no stacked audiences, no TV chair trying to be the star of the chair, just intellect, politics, knowledge and information!

    94. fin says:

      I dont think anybody should stoop as low as the labour party,whether shes a plant I doubt it, but she has a lot of people talking about nothing which is a bit sad. Need to focus on the real politics or we’re going to be rightfully compared with labour loonys

    95. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      We’re still waiting on an apology from McDougall after the bullshit memo dirty tricks.

      He deleted some of his idiotic tweets so it’s not as if we don’t all know he was caught smearing off the back of lies.

    96. Grouse Beater says:

      Murphy spouted a lot of emotional rhetoric which was bound to move somebody in the audience, but it was only empty rhetoric.

      Almost certainly the young girl in question did not compare his utterances with his tirades against independence made during the Referendum, policies and ideals that he rejected outright but now supports.

    97. BenInsular says:

      @ G. Campbell

      “Here’s some of her tweets from last year.”

      Thanks. I hadn’t looked that far back in her Twitter feed, and it confirms my earlier impression. Who knows, her dad may be SNP and her mum Labour, hence her panic when put on the spot? Enough speculation, anyway.

      OT: I’d been trying to figure out who Jim Murphy reminded me of when he did his usual Earnest Gravitas Jim, soft-spoken voice-in-the-boots turn (in contrast to the more true-to-life Ragin’ Ned Jim) last night.

      Then it came to me (maybe showing my age): He’s modelled his act on I.M. Jolly!

    98. Grouse Beater says:

      Dr Jim said:
      Grouse Beater 11.54am – Enjoyed that enormously, a pleasure to read. Thank you.

      🙂

      Please pass on to others.

    99. carjamtic says:

      An Unexpected Call

      Dear Close Relative

      It was fun having you to stay,but I would like you to go now 300 years is too long.

      To be honest,you have begun to really annoy me,I am busy right now renovating my home,trying to clear up the mess you have made and I would like you to leave, as for one thing I cannot afford to keep you any more.

      Ok you don’t want to go,stop the tantrums,I have a better idea,We will come and visit you for a while,I have made plans to visit around May is that ok

      Really,you don’t want us visiting,why not,I see,you don’t mind being an uninvited guest,but you don’t want us to be an uninvited guess,okay I see.

      You have some videos/photo’s/tweets of your familly saying they don’t want us over,are you sure,you not just saying that to put me off are you ?

      I really don’t have the time to discuss this with you as we have the builders in,the renovation is ongoing,lots of brilliant ideas from everyone.

      You advise me to stop as these renovating costs are too much I cannot afford them.
      Yes you are partially correct there will costs to renovate to the high standards we need and yes you are a drain on my finances,but guess what,in the long term it will be worth it.

      No need to get all nasty,shouty,we know your house is a mess,we are going to help you clean it up,see you soon. 🙂

      Love and Kisses
      Nicola

      Message to Answering Machine

      P.S. We need to talk,about your finances,lifestyle,familly etc……some of them have been complaining,they cannot get a hold of you,they have asked me to have a word,make you see sense,as it were,this big extension for the old folk,do you need it ? and no before you ask I won’t take any pleasure from it,I will let you know the exact number in our party soon.

    100. Big Jock says:

      I am sure if the girl is an indie supporter, then she will be reading this. Why don’t you put a post on here with your own explanation if you are reading this.

      If you value Scottish independence and the move towards that. Then we need people like yourself to stay strong and defend us against smears.

      I am sure none of us on here would ever insult or abuse anyone. That’s not what this site is about. Personally I think people outwith this site need to calm down and attack the parties and leaders rather than the individuals. We can never win when we attack individuals. The press just love when individuals are targetted by nasty nats. That said most of the abuse on this occasion came from the unionists masogonists.

    101. TYRAN says:

      The first thing I thought was – she’s rather nice! Not that she was going to vote Labour or whatever. She had a nice smile as well towards the end. One of the few things I remember about that show.

    102. galamcennalath says:

      I sense a degree of paranoia setting into our camp. Not surprising that after a couple of years of lies, deceits, false promises … We begin to assume everything said by, or in favour of, the Unionists must be dodgy.

      We really all need to be on the look out for set up situations. I don’t think the lassie intended any mischief, but it does look like son-of-BT jumped in quickly to take advantage of any confused reaction to her motives.

      We also need to accept that opinions expressed may be genuine. But, here again as she says herself, what she said may not be quite what she believes.

      This would all be much easier if the Unionist didn’t play so dirty, so often. We are beginning to see everything in that framework! Particularly if it’s Labour, when they do anything, we look for an underhand agenda.

      And, just because we are experiencing paranoia, doesn’t mean the ba5tards aren’t actually at it again.

    103. heedtracker says:

      BenInsular says:
      9 April, 2015 at 12:53 pm
      @ heedtracker

      “Way to miss the point BenInsular”

      It is perfectly legit to think or say out loud, “that was a plant by SLabour.” But again, WoS blog is not attacking the audience member in this debate, who said she had just decided to vote for Murphy. So repeat after me…

      The whole point of the post is clearly focused on the appalling reaction and conduct by one of the bosses of the SLabour 2015 general election campaign, Bliar MacDougal.

      Way to miss the point BenInsular

    104. Almagill says:

      I’m guessing some of you missed this:

      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/586118238586667008

      from @NicolaSturgeon

      @Dawnrodger You were great on Tuesday night – strong & articulate. We need more young women like you in politics – regardless of party.

      Let’s not get sucked into another mob mentality driven witch hunt. There’s enough wrong with SLab, their policies and Murphy without ganging up on wee lassies (and giving them ammunition that’ll get flung back in our faces by the likes of Blair McD, et al)

    105. Casper1066 says:

      Blair screws it up yet again. Why do people employ this guy. Wings people….aww that’s cute…

    106. steviecosmic says:

      I read many comments here with a great deal of despair. FFS people, read the article thoroughly and then comment. Baseless accusations, accompanied by abuse or not, plays right into the hands of McDougall and co. folks should know that after all the crap of the indy ref.

      And as far as the wee lassie panicking, has anyone here ever been on live television? I have, many times, and it’s about as nerve racking an experience as any.

    107. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Beninsular
      Do keep up there that man/woman I M Jolly lol, wiz done on WOS over two years ago, we do have oor fingers on the Pulse, you,s lot take note ah did said the PULSE.

    108. BenInsular says:

      @ ronnie anderson

      “I M Jolly lol, wiz done on WOS over two years ago”

      Heh. Great minds, and all that. I’d love a link to that for a laugh.

      Since I wasn’t reading WOS at that time, there must be something in it!

    109. Nation Libre says:

      Can we stop jumping on these things until we are absolutely sure. This again looks like a little union bait too eagerly swallowed up by some of the Yes side who should know better

    110. Wilma says:

      Once again DONT FEED THE TROLLS they are baiting you.

    111. big jock says:

      I agree we need to stop falling for these wee unionist hi-jinks. Just let them carry on, and ignore the deliberate baiting.

    112. Gary says:

      Its a win-win-win for them. They get the young lady to say what they want – win. They get to be publicly outraged by an attack that wasn’t – win. They get publicity for her being ‘attacked’ when she wasn’t and don’t get any publicity when it turns out that they lied and that they are fostering hate speech against SNP voters – win.

      It seems the campaign has picked up from the unionist negativity and fear and has simply turned into a campaign of hate.

    113. DerekM says:

      ok i get the picture the lassie got flustered and creeped out by shouty scary jim ,she just wanted his ugly coupon away from her so capitulated to answer so he wouldnt attack her,well lets face it he does like to shout down women.

      The one thing that puzzles me is she says they made her do it ,this we need answers to and would be delighted if this young lady could maybe answer them.

      Who are they and who said you pretty much have to ?
      And why are they handing out questions to audience members ,this is not a debate if the audience is being prompted by a TV company in the direction they want the discussion to go.
      Something stinks and it aint the wee lassie but she might be able to shine some light on this sordid affair but i would not blame her if she just wanted a quiet life and this to all go away.

    114. CameronB Brodie says:

      This reminds me of a chat I had with granny from Lewis, during the indyref. We were in a supermarket (in Edinburgh), and I asked her if she would be voting Yes. She replied “of course, but we mustn’t talk about these things”. She was being deadly serious and was a little uneasy with my loud but friendly rebuttal. Then her face split in a big grin, as no balaclava wearing thugs had dragged me away, gagging me so as to silence such blasphemy.

      The Establishment must be wondering why Scotlandshire doesn’t know it’s place. After all, they have been ‘schooling’ us for three centuries now.

    115. starlaw says:

      Just received the latest Labour leaflet from Graeme Morrice, all the usual guff, more nurses .. provide jobs .. yup provide jobs .. unless you are a printer as his leaflet was printed in CARDIFF

    116. K1 says:

      Meanwhile back at the fairm Cameron, Scotlandshire has been schooling itself…ah the thatcher years; put a generation on the dole and think there are nae consequences?

      When one is not ‘occupied’ in the recently invented ‘conditioned’ sense of that meaning, in so called ‘gainful’ employment, with time on one’s hands…one has to learn to do and think for oneself.

      It’s wasn’t always an ‘unhappy’ experience…tae have time on yer hands wi others who were in the same boat. 🙂

      They underestimate ingenuity and have too narrow a definition of ‘schooling’ altogether.

    117. CameronB Brodie says:

      She was nervous and wasn’t expecting to be asked for a response after Jim spoke. As she says on her twitter account: “I turned to my mum and said why the fuck did I just say that and we laughed!” That’s why her “you’ve totally convinced me” was so, um, unconvincing. It happens to everybody when you’re in a bit of a panic, especially when you’ve got a camera pointed at you.

      That sounds to me like a failed attempt at irony.

    118. David Lyon says:

      The individual who said our campaign is suffering from paranoia is entirely correct.

      This is a rather embarrassing display from people who see BBC/STV/Labour bias in their soup.

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      Grouse Beater
      I also enjoyed your post and think we are lucky to have someone with your media experience on our side. Thanks.

    120. big jock says:

      Derek M- You are onto something concerning the audiences at these debates. They say they are a cross section and representative of Scotland.

      Well that will be 48% SNP , 17% Con ,28% Lab and 7% others. Funny how it sounded like 40% Labour 20% Tory 20% others and only 20% SNP!

      The audience can only be representative if it reflects voting intentions. Not just putting your mates from SLAB and Tory on an equal par with the SNP. The SNP audience should be dominating these debates but they are not even 1/4. The audience are being handpicked.

      Why were there so many people with English accents at the STV debate. I counted at least 5 questioners from maybe only 12 questions? Don’t forget someone filters the audience they don’t just walk in the door!

    121. CameronB Brodie says:

      K1
      You rebel. 😉

    122. MochaChoca says:

      When the broadcaster has Hugh Pennington on unannounced as a normal member of the public (and conveniently is chosen as one of the few who gets to make a point) it kind of makes a mockery of the whole set-up.

    123. big jock says:

      Mocha – I am not going to watch any more of the debates. I believe they are not reflecting the mood of the nation. Why did Nicola get booed for asking Jim to support Devo Max? Poll after poll showed that had at least 70% support.The audience booed as if it was a crazy notion.

      Jim lied about scrapping tuition fees twice but went unchallenged by the presenter!

      These debates only serve to depress me.

    124. K1 says:

      Lol, mibbes aye mibbes naw. Circumstance defines a lot of our outlook…that old epigenetic effect. Maybe just not fearful of a just rebellion against unjust ‘authority’. 🙂

    125. North chiel says:

      All noted, however the big story of the day( after Nicla’s “red line”
      Commitment last night) is the trident “chain reaction” triggered
      Between the red and blue Tories over the “defence of the realm”?

    126. YESGUY says:

      Well done Rev.

      My sympathy is with the young lass. Caught on camera when you don’t want it there is a horrible predicament . And well done commenters too, we believe we all have the right to vote and abusing others hardly helps get your points through.

      Going by the tweets , no damage to Dawn And as a YESSER she’ll no doubt vote SNP when the time comes.

      We need more of the younger generation involved. RIC and the like were teeming with younger voters and they were magnificent during the referendum. My faith is in the young of this country. It’s the older “we know better ” brigade that spoil the show.

      If you reading Wings young Lady please drop us a comment. We’re all ears. And you’ll find support here too, your never alone on Wings.

      Great to get the right version again Stuart. Your a god-send. The BT tag team of Tornface and MacPietheif are trawling the pits once again for their disgusting soon to be dead party. When will they learn – WE DON’T BELIEVE YOU …..EVER 😀

      Roll on May …………. 🙂

    127. CameronB Brodie says:

      The referendum on Scottish independence to be held on the 18th September 2014 will contain a straight ‘Yes or No’ ballot. However, there exists a significant body of opinion in Scotland that actually prefers a constitutional position somewhere between the current devolved settlement and independence involving a further extension of the competences of the Scottish Parliament. DevoMax is one of the options that has consistently been part of the discourse surrounding constitutional change in Scotland. Although there is an element of uncertainty with regards to what DevoMax is, it commonly refers to devolving most policies and tax powers to Holyrood whilst the UK retains some macroeconomic policy, defence and foreign affairs. Around 50% of the electorate has consistently supported a position of extended devolution, making it a more popular option than independence.

      But how does the Scottish public assess Scotland’s performance under independence and DevoMax. Do they think that its future will be significantly better under one or the other? Furthermore, how do these assessments relate to two key variables that explain constitutional preferences, national and party identity? The findings of this research are based on data from Scottish Social Attitudes Survey from 2011 and 2012. The analysis focusses on a limited number of variables including economic performance, standard of living and voice in the world.

      We find that assessments of DevoMax and independence are not, on the whole, that different. In relation to national identity, Scottish identifiers have a roughly equal assessment of what changes DevoMax and independence may bring. However, British identifiers are significantly more negative about independence than DevoMax. In the case of party affiliation, the assessments of independence and DevoMax are fairly similar. Furthermore, Labour supporters are more positive about the future performance of an independent Scotland than their actual constitutional preferences would suggest.

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/how-different-are-assessments-of-independence-and-devolution-max-an-analysis-of-the-role-of-national-identity-and-party-affiliation/

    128. Stoker says:

      Just been handed 2 pieces of election material which are doing the rounds here in my part of the Scottish Borders.

      First up is a me me me from blue Tory John Lamont.

      He claims to be a strong voice for the area.
      His leaflet claims to be printed in Glasgow.
      (psst, Lamont, Glasgow’s not in the Scottish Borders)
      On the front of said leaflet it states, in bold red against a white background:

      “***STOP PRESS***Independent pro-UK groups advising voters in the Borders to vote for John to stop the SNP.”

      Trouble is, Lamont fails to quote or make a reference to one of these “pro-UK groups”, however, he does quote 4 individuals.
      Four individuals who are speaking for themselves and not any “group” or organisation and they’re merely trotting out the same mantra of how wonderfully hard working John is.

      Lamont states that he is “The only pro-UK candidate who can beat the SNP in the Borders.” He goes on to state that “The opinion polls suggest that it is neck and neck between me and an unknown SNP candidate..”

      Well, my wee Lamb, as you well know, that SNP candidate is the very well known, in these here parts, Calum Kerr. And you’ll see just how well known come May when you’re carted off to the knackers yard and replaced with the prize tup, Calum Kerr.

      BTW, folks, if a lying Tory is saying that the polls suggest things are “neck and neck” you can bet your last they mean the SNP are galloping ahead.
      😉

    129. 45 & Counting says:

      This poor lassie needs to be left alone. She is not a political football to be kicked around by people on ANY side just so they can score cheap points.

      After a referendum that got young people to engage and become active in politics like never before is this what they are to be subjected to? Accusations of being a plant or a stooge, derided for their opinions and used by politicians and activists alike to berate political rivals. This is the kind of politics Scotland is trying to get rid of. Shame on the Lib Dems, shame on Blair McDougall and shame on anyone else who thinks it is Ok to use this girl to further their political agenda.

      It is the politicians and their policies that should be scrutinised not a young lassie who dared to express an opinion.

    130. heedtracker says:

      When the broadcaster has Hugh Pennington on unannounced as a normal member of the public

      To be fair the silly old fart’s points were all over the shop, no oil means no uni research funding maybe? I wouldn’t mind but for the fact that he won the referendum and is either too dottled to know he did and Holyrood has never had any say or control over Scots North Sea oil and gas whatsoever. Not in taxation or policy or its hellish accident rates or its hellish environmental damage, all of it is Westminster and they sucked it all away for whatever England needs.

      Cheers Prof.

    131. Alice Sharp says:

      latest election communication from Tom Greatrex

      ‘Families in Rutherglen and Hamilton West cannot afford another Tory Government, but that is what we will get if the Tories are the largest party. Only a vote for Scottish Labour can change that.”- Tom Greatrex.

      The ‘Scottish Labour’leaflet was printed in Cardiff.

    132. Stoker says:

      The second pile of tripe i received was a leaflet from the FibDems.

      It was printed in Bristol and published in London.

      Utterly laughable, it’s an all out attack on their bedfellows, the blue Tories.

      They claim that “Only the Liberal Democrats can balance the books and fix the economy in a fair way.”

      They then go on to state “The Conservatives were planning on doing some extreme things before the Liberal Democrats stopped them.”

      They then list 3 issues: public sector workers being paid less, bosses being able to sack workers with no good reason and government being able to read our emails and spy on the websites we visit, before claiming responsibility for preventing the blue Tories doing all these things.

      They also have a picture of, and quote from, alcoholic Kennedy:
      “The Liberal Democrats will balance the budget fairly by 2018, cut taxes for workers and ensure decent public services.”

      Oh well, there goes my laugh for the day and 2 pieces of Unionist guff headed straight into the recycle bin. Well, we must always strive to turn the negative into a positive, eh!

    133. BOB Mooney says:

      Not a Labour fan but Katy Clark gave me a leaflet published in Kilbirnie, her local area.

      A politician who practises what she preaches.

      The rest of Jumbos team should have done the same

    134. Andy-B says:

      I knew that young lady professing the greatness of Jim Murphy,didn’t sound convincing.

      If Labour coerced her into saying what she said,then I find it despicable,that they could use a young lady,to lie for them shame on Labour.

    135. Ken500 says:

      Katy Clark is a total hypocrite. She should hang her head in shame, along with the rest of them..

    136. Ron says:

      If there’s one invention in the last 2000 years that needs to be uninvented, it’s Twitter.

    137. Jimmy says:

      Sorry again, like I said on the last thread I’ve not been keeping up with the politics for a few months (personal reasons). I am surprised to see that a no mark, lying, ignoramus like Blair McDougall still gets some print by you…..come on, he is less newsworthy than Duncan Hothershall or whatever he is called….don’t give them oxygen. These are the people that have done nothing for society and will leave nothing, but a bad smell in the atmosphere when they are are gone. Political pigmies bolstered by money from vestied (spelling) interests.

    138. Effijy says:

      Fracking upset in Sussex!

      Unfortunately they started drilling for this oil when the price was double what it is today.

      Why didn’t they know what the oil markets were going to do?
      Why would they add up and count on profits that are not what they thought they’d be?

      I also regret to inform Westminster that it that type of oil that Scotland has. You know that stuff that runs out!

      What a small price to pay if fracking does lead to contaminated water supplies, increased levels of cancer and general ill health across the board.
      The Westminster elite want the cash for their masters so give it up!

    139. Katie says:

      @Lollysmum: Thanks for posting the link to the Alex Salmond interview. Just finished watching it. What a fantastic man he is!

    140. Connor McEwen says:

      Meanwhile Farmer Cameron skulks away and plays with the pigs and sheep tittering
      and flinging dung at everyone else

    141. pro-loco says:

      Now posting well after the event and after the rev has posted two new articles.

      However, the whole sequence of events that the rev has identified here is something that has happened before simply because of the revs’ speed of identifying, verbalising and posting items of interest on the web.

      Now the rev is clever enough to keep a ‘professional distance’ in that he does not stray into slander or otherwise litigious language but are the rest of us reading here wise enough to hold our fire or realise this is a piece of bait?

      I think I saw the ‘this girl is a doppelgänger for this girl’ item somewhere on the web before the rev posted it and before the nice lib dem woman posted her bit. It was clear to me that there was no resemblance but with the “I was yes but now I’m Jim’s’ this was too much to bear for most of us. There is precedent for this rushing to judge and regretting thereafter in the Susan Calman debacle.

      What we need is a way to identify these presentational bear traps, find our space to delay our response and then think ‘Who benefits and in how many ways from this story’? Consider that Blair McDougall might count as a gain even the most mild of language criticising an innocent party because that will be said to be “vile cybernat abuse” because that is the label with a track record in the public arena.

      How about just ignoring these provocations? Be positive instead of rushing to criticise?

    142. North chiel says:

      You gov poll on scot goes pop SNP 49 PC
      Lab 25 PC

    143. bobby mcpherson says:

      Tickets for the leaders debate are like gold dust and the audience would have been well vetted and no the kind of event where anyone can be dragged in. So ah’m saying she’s a plant.

    144. Ewan Kane says:

      I was wondering how the BBC’s pet microbiologist, Hugh Pennington, got to be part of the audience.

    145. Julian Arculus says:

      There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind, it’s the same girl from the pro-Murphy demo. Using rather less make-up on TV, but significantly more fake tan. As to what she said afterwards ~ well she would say that, wouldn’t she. Especially if she’s being manipulated by others.

    146. woosie says:

      I agree with most comments, ie, plants are being used, intimidation is being used by lab/tory/libs. The ploys stand out a mile to the intelligent majority, but that’s not the target; their target is the hordes of uninformed who read the record, mail, etc. It’s the easiest thing in the world – at least in the uk – to print a falsified damning document, safe in the knowledge that those who don’t want to think for themselves will latch onto it, and that any enquiry will fade away eventually without substantial punishment.
      We’ve more of this and worse to come.

    147. orri says:

      1) It’s not the same girl.

      2) just treat the “fakeness” of the way she said what she said as a failed attempt at sarcasm,

      Along the lines of (Aye, that’s right Jim) I’ve listened to what you have to say and will be voting for you (NOT !!!)

      3) if that doesn’t work try it in the terified tone used by Audrey in “Little Shop of Horrors” when saying “Yes Doctor”

    148. Brian Halliday says:

      I know this girl she was NOT a plant. She voted yes because SNP were the ones to guarantee free education. She is not well informed at all about politics. But she did apply through a forum to be on TV her mother wanted to go. She asked the free education question again. She was set up and was coached to ask the question the way it was articulated and felt under pressure to comply. She just “agreed” with Jim to be polite. Since then she has not left the house and has had numerous death threats with the police now being involved. Jim Murphy sent her an email asking to take her to lunch. Which she wants nothing to do with! She regrets getting involved and going to the studios now. Shes just a very young female that has been used as a political football.

    149. Brian Halliday says:

      And I can tell you she is definitely NOT the girl in the Labour Demo.

    150. Scott says:

      Looks like Ed Milliband is in total disagreement with his branch manager in Scotland. From today’s Daily Mirror ed is quoted

      “Nicola Sturgeon’s hopes of a post-election pact with Labour are in tatters after Ed Miliband made a passionate defence of Trident nukes.

      The Scottish National Party leader made scrapping Britain’s nuclear missiles her price for propping up a minority Labour government.

      But in an exclusive interview with the Sunday People Mr Miliband insisted: “We should keep our independent nuclear deterrent.

      “And it’s got to be a continuous at sea deterrent.”

      Now didn’t dim Jim say on Wednesday how he wants to rid us all of nuclear weapons ?

      “I respect people who want to get rid of nuclear weapons but I totally disagree with them.Trident is the most cost-effective option in an uncertain and unstable world.”



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top