The imaginary alliance
All this year we’ve been noticing a curious re-writing of history in the Scottish and UK media. It’s spanned left-wing and right-wing press, and even Yes-friendly voices like Iain Macwhirter and the estimable Lallands Peat Worrier have been sucked in.
Yet it’s such a fundamentally bizarre misunderstanding of a political system that’s now been running in Scotland for 16 years that we’re bewildered at the way everyone’s suddenly decided that it happened.
The latest occurrence of this odd phenomenon was in yesterday’s Daily Record, and the subject is the newly-alleged “informal deal” between the minority SNP government of 2007-11 and the Scottish Conservatives.
The phrases “informal deal” and “informal alliance” have suddenly been everywhere. The Record, of course, gives it its own inimitable spin:
(We’re pleased, at least, to note that Margaret’s memory has improved since the days when she didn’t know who Denis Healey was, even though she was the chair and secretary of the Scottish Organisation of Labour Students while Healey was the Chancellor of the Exchequer in a Labour government.)
Alert readers may be quizzically enquiring at the point, “Hold on – ‘to keep Scottish Labour out of office’?” Scottish Labour, after all, has just spent most of February telling everyone that the party with the most seats in elections is the one that gets to form the government. In 2007 that was the SNP, albeit by only one seat, so it might be an idea if the party could get its story straight on the matter once and for all.
But on this occasion we’re here to question the “cosy relationship” part, because we don’t remember that being how it played out at all. It certainly wasn’t how the papers saw it at the time, with the Guardian’s assessment of the situation being typical:
As it happened, Salmond did neither. With the Lib Dems having rejected any form of co-operation unless the SNP abandoned any pursuit of an independence referendum, the Nats decided to run as a minority, seeking support on an issue-by-issue basis.
Peter Riddell of the Institute for Government recently summed up the modus operandi of the 2007-11 administration much more accurately:
The Scottish Parliament was expressly designed to avoid the governing party having an absolute majority. Parties were MEANT to be seeking agreement and common ground rather than just fighting with each other all the time.
Labour, unable to see past their decades-old tribal hatred of the SNP and their fury at having lost the election, entirely failed to grasp the principle, as did the Lib Dems. But the Tories, altogether cannier and more pragmatic, spotted a simple opportunity.
There are almost no two parties anywhere on Earth who don’t have SOME policies in common. Labour and the Tories, for example, agree on Trident, on immigration, on welfare and a great deal more besides.
And the Scottish Conservatives realised that on a few issues where their policies overlapped with the SNP’s – for example recruiting 1000 more police officers – they could make themselves look consensual, mature and effective by supporting the Nats and claiming the move as their own initiative.
They also knew that the public tends not to like seeing its chosen government brought down and being forced through another general election, and that the electorate usually looks unfavourably on those it deems responsible, which is why the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems never did get around to a vote of no confidence in those four years, despite easily having enough seats to win one.
No “deal” or “alliance” was required, formal or informal. The Tories couldn’t afford to bring down a budget – almost inevitably triggering a new election – but merely played Holyrood the way it was designed to be played. And the SNP played along with it, since they wanted to do the things the Conservatives supported them on anyway.
But outside the budgets normal politics resumed, and the Tories were as obstructive to Salmond’s government as they could possibly be:
– they blocked the adoption of Local Income Tax
– they blocked the independence referendum
– they opposed free prescriptions
– they opposed minimum pricing for alcohol
– they opposed the abolition of the graduate endowment fee
– and of course, they teamed up with Labour and the Lib Dems to force through the disastrous Edinburgh trams project
A BBC archive of votes in the Parliament’s first year provides a remarkable record of just how little must have been covered in any “deal” between the two parties. Readers might wonder if the Nats’ negotiators should have been sacked if they signed up to an arrangement under which the Tories could force through the trams, scupper flagship policies like LIT and the referendum, and risk others by voting against them.
Alternatively, they might consider it more likely that what happened between 2007 and 2011 was the only thing that COULD have happened. Backing SNP budgets in return for a couple of face-saving “concessions” was the absolute bare minimum the Tories could do without bringing down the government, which they were terrified of doing.
That’s like two people waiting to cross a busy road deciding not to push each other into traffic. It’s not a “deal” or “alliance”, it’s basic simple common sense – because if you do it you might get dragged under the bus too, and even if that doesn’t happen you’ll almost certainly get put in prison.
We’re not sure why the commentariat has chosen en masse, under no immediately obvious provocation, to eschew that same common sense now. If anyone can explain it to us, we’d very much like to hear from you.
That informal negotiations, particularly about the budget, was also available to other Parties and, if I am correct the SNP Gov consulted Labour about something in the budget bill which Ian Gray or was it Wendy or somebody else demanded an insertion into the budget.
This was duly done, in the spirit of co-operative negotiation and Labour voted against their own amendment.
That became to be known as the Bain Doctrine.
Labour never wanted to work anybody unless they could control themas a poodle is controlled.
This is Consensus versus adversarial politics which too many a Unionist WM junkie cannot get their lump of grey matter around.
“Hello folks, welcome to the new order”
As to why some of the more astute commentators are being sucked into this confusion…fatigue?
Their own (Tory) track record as pointed out above illustrates how easy it is to destroy all these labour sound bites about cosy alliances with the SNP. Well done you.
It also beggars belief that folk just gawp/gaup at you when you tell them about how we got the trams. It appears that not a lot of people know, apart from us here, that it was the unionist parties that pushed it through.
Is this really the best that they can do, surely folk will sweep them away in the election so we can move Scotland on to a better place.
Labour used to have a formidable team of footsoldiers, but I’m going back a few years. 🙂
PS: Handy for the National X-word
link to dsl.ac.uk Scots dictionary.
Well, nothing else is working for them so far. SLAB’s stunts seem to explode in their faces, as you have so eloquently (and indeed joyfully) pointed out.
It’s all about deflection. Labour having spent a couple of years being the Tories lapdog, during the referendum campaign.
As for any deal with Labour, in the event the SNP prop up a minority Lab. government; as I understand it, it will be a issue by issue basis. I don’t see the confusion or any coalition.
I had some plonker on Twitter telling me the SNP and the Conservatives were in coalition from 2007 to 2011. When I explained how it actually was, he said it was the same thing anyway.
[…] All this year we’ve been noticing a curious re-writing of history in the Scottish and UK media. It’s spanned left-wing and right-wing press, and even Yes-friendly voices like Iain Macwhirter and Lallands Peat Worrier have been sucked in. […]
It is worth noting that on most, if not all, of the occasions when the minority SNP administration was defeated, British Labour MSPs voted with their future Tory allies in Better Together. Then, as now, the only “informal alliance” in evidence was the cabal formed by the British parties at Holyrood.
Having both lived in and followed NZ politics since we change the voting system to PR I have seen how such arrangements and deal making on an issue by issue basis as well as bills being improved by opposition amendments. Three successive minority Labour led coalitions were supported on confidence and supply by the Greens. Three stable governments that ran budget surpluses and paid down debt (one reason NZ emerged from the financial meltdown in much better shape than many).
Considering the self serving cant the LibDems served up to justify the current WM coalition (the country needs stable government; we were duty bound) why did they not use the same principles to make the then Scottish government more stable? They could have for eg, as arch federalists changed the indyref into DevoMaxRef, an open goal missed there, surely? or got AV or STV or similar in place for Holyrood constituency elections? So much low hanging fruit, so much opportunity to say ‘look what we achieved’. Yet they sat on their hands and displayed irrational Nat-hatred to match Labour’s.
Off topic somewhat but I’ve recently been made aware of this FB page. Seasoned Wingers may already know of it so apologies in advance – I’m new to this!
Pretty nasty stuff from British Unity
link to facebook.com
Yes, I’ve noticed mentions of the SNP & the Tories “working together” have been appearing in the press recently. Other than voting for extra police, I couldn’t think of anything. Thanks for clearing it up.
During the pre-indyref debate between Johann Lamont and John Swinney on Newsnicht, Lamont specifically referred to this period, when the SNP sought agreement with other parties to pass legislation and budgets. She, naturally, deplored the fact that the SNP included the Tories in this consensus (!) However, she did not try to claim Labour were not involved.
More of Curran’s lies. Or was she in Holyrood, and just not paying attention?
I have always felt that whatever Alex Salmond might do, it was for the benefit of Scotland, I suspect that he would do a deal with the Devil to further that cause. Unlike the other political parties who’s leaders, through self interest and party interests, have their muppets undermine Scotland. A noble short term sacrifice for others advantage, gets my vote every time, if only there were more like him.
It’s the same the whole world over, it’s the poor that get the blame, it’s the rich that get the pleasure, isn’t it a blooming shame. Before Slabber became the rich they seemed to identify with this, now with wealth they have become worse than the Tories, who are at least known for what they are and don’t pretend to be anything different. GE2015 SNP are the only way to go.
Deary me, it is really anything goes now to make the SNP toxic. Does anyone believe that the Daily Record is nothing more than a Labour Party press sheet? If the populace really believed the SNP government was propped up by the Tories then there wouldn’t have been an SNP landslide in 2011 and continued high popularity.
Remember folks, SLAB only need to claw back 15% of their lost vote in the Daily Record’s back yard to keep the gravy train rolling. Never be complacent despite favourable polls!
Magrit the amazing memory woman strikes again.
What a load of guff, The reason the SNP were able to run a minority administration is because they were prepared to work with all parties to reach a consensus. More often than not Labour would table amendments, the SNP would accept and then Labour abstained on the vote allowing clear passage for the SNP. The SNP + Tories only gave 64 votes. That the SNP ran an administration for 4 years on 47 out of 129 seats was remarkable.
I would like to see Miliband try that in Westminster.
They seem to think that all of us have the attention span of a goldfish
Wrong, some of us here are akin to the elephant and never forget any of these things. Yes the Holyrood parliament was indeed set up that no one party would be a dominant majority so consensus would be required. If I remember correctly it was going to be a new style of politics away from the yah boo sucks of doon the road. Wonder how that went.
Labour have well and truly lost the plot and now we have the attempt to rewrite history. I do sometimes wonder about Iain McWhirter and the Peat worrier and what they are playing at. Are they really being sucked in or not. Maybe it’s another game altogether, who knows.
Anyway before anyone pulls me up, I’m no insulting elephants, or indeed any wingers. Merely making the point about memory.
Oh and thanks Rev for all the hard work you put in bring this stuff to our attention.
Thanks Rev. That’s how I remember it as well. The Labour Party’s attempt to invent an alternative history of the period 2007-2011 should fail because it is contrary to the facts, but when commentators push the invention as truth the public can begin to doubt their own memories.
And, as Call me Dave points out, it is astonishing that so many folk think the Edinburgh trams project was an SNP fiasco, and are surprised to be told that it was pushed through against SNP opposition by the combined votes of Labour, Tory and Lib Dem MSPs.
History is usually written by the victors, but in modern Scotland the commentariat make sure that we read the losers version.
The Tories were clever enough to use the system to their own advantage.
Labour were too stupid to do so.
@Peter Bell 4.30, very good point. Well said.
Labour has now spent so long licking the Tories ass that they have now become Tory and the Daily Record has the hard neck to come up with this balls.
Is this the best their Labour toilet roll sheet can come up with.
Does anyone still fall for the Daily Records crap?
“The Tories couldn’t afford to bring down a budget – almost inevitably triggering a new election – but merely played Holyrood the way it was designed to be played”
The 2009 budget was a good example of this – panic ensued after the Greens decided to play hard-ball on money for home insulation, and the budget was rejected. When the “revised” budget came up for a vote, the Greens were the only ones who didn’t back it – even Labour voted for it, that’s how desperate they all were to avoid an early election. The Lib Dems didn’t even get any concessions, and they still voted for it.
None of that was evidence of collusion between parties – just a reflection of the fact that the public doesn’t have time for parties who play silly beggers.
“We’re not sure why the commentariat has chosen en masse, under no immediately obvious provocation, to eschew that same common sense now.”
Well, I think we can see, three months away from the general election, how things are going (as if we didn’t know from our experience of the media during the referendum, or for some of us from bitter experiences even before that). I’ll sound like a broken record but we need those with the structures in place, e.g. Wings, to get into the homes of as many people as possible and give them a big slap with what will soon become a phone book sized book of corrections to the lies and misrepresentations, lies and misrepresentations designed to damage any party with the audacity to promote proper change to the constitution of this collection of islands.
BTW, at what point will the shrill screaming of BBC about SNP start to smell a bit fishy to the ordinary punter?
Ot
Does anyone know where I can get an snp flag?
It`s from the Record and from the pen of David Clegg so I am suspicious from the start and looking for the agenda.
Why is Annabelle taking the lead here rather than Ruth and what is in it for the Tories? If as the Tories say vote Eck get Ed then rubbishing the SNP will either pull votes back to Labour which means, for Scotland, vote Ed get Ed or, less likely, pull votes back to the Tories which still means vote Dave get Ed. All that happens is there is less chance of the SNP wielding power.
I fail to see what the Tories in Scotland hope to gain other than save the Union by thinking a Labour majority is their second choice in all this.
Then I come back to the start, Clegg of the Record doesn`t give a toss who wins as long as the SNP lose so he can write what he likes to this end.
Great article.
Good point made about when the Scottish government lost- Labour had to vote with their pals the Tories and Libdems to defeat them,in a parliament designed by the party in power in the UK at that time, to work in that way for both Government and Opposition.
I see that the Daily Record are publishing the usual load of rubbish in a miserable attempt to discredit the SNP. The Record is nothing more than a mouthpiece for a dysfunctional Scottish Labour Party.
The record “story” has McTernans fingerprints all over it. It is a pathetic attempt to link the SNP with the Tory party and hope that the mud sticks.
Unfortunately for McTernan the actual facts tell a different story and the Scottish electorate in the main now see through the bullshit.
They really need to put down the spade, the hole is already too deep to climb out from, but they just keep digging deeper.
I smell desperation!
It is only a variation on ‘tartan Tories.’
McTernan must have paced his office for days to find a new way of saying the same thing.
I’m get fed up with this crap from Labour and the MSM.
[…] The imaginary alliance […]
“They also knew that the public tends not to like seeing its chosen government brought down and being forced through another general election, and that the electorate usually looks unfavourably on those it deems responsible, which is why the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems never did get around to a vote of no confidence in those four years, despite easily having enough seats to win one.”
That was at the heart of the minority government plan by the SNP. Something that simply hadn’t occurred to the red, yellow and blue tories. Competence.
At no point could any of the right leaning parties in labour, the lib dems or the tories bring down the SNP because it was obvious just how badly it would turn out for them. They were dealing with a popular and well regarded minority administration who the public actually approved of.
A situation which will most definitely NOT be repeated for wee Miliband or Cameron after the GE. Which is why the third largest party (the SNP going by all the polling) will be so powerful in a Tory or Labour westminster minority administration.
The public’s approval of both parties and their ‘leader’ is so bad it’s a joke. So it’s not as if either party could possibly afford to cut and run to the electorate again. No matter how much they may wish to.
That being the case the tories/Labour will have to somehow keep struggling on for five years. During which the SNP are hardly going to do anything other than vote against harmful regressive right-wing policies, (from either the tories or Labour) supporting policies good for scotland and good for the public, while opposing profligate money wasting abominations like Trident.
Something that won’t just be popular in scotland as is abundantly clear from Miliband’s pathetic standing among the electorate in rUK as well.
“Labour and Lib Dems never did get around to a vote of no confidence..”
That’s a key point – they were terrified the SNP would be returned with a larger number of seats.
I remember thinking what a breakthrough it was at the time – just a one seat majority, including one seat, Cunninghame North, which had a majority of only around 40 votes.
Before then, the thought of an SNP government with no experience was painted as some sort of mad scary risk.
But the dam was burst then.
Great article. They say if you throw enough mud at something then some of it will stick. I felt that during the referendum there were a lot of false claims made by the no side that were not rebutted and as a result certain doubts were put into the minds of undecided voters which I feel could have cost the Yes side.
I would like to see the SNP attack claims like these head on and nip them in the bud. It is not about stooping to the level of the Tories and New Labour but simply about putting the record straight for people as the media unfortunately will not do it.
Is it just me, or do Labour consistently take the subject matter and wording that’s being held against them – and start using it themselves?
“Hand in Glove with the Tories”, “His Tory pals” and then of course the subject itself, trying to link SNP and Conservatives.
I’m sure they kept doing this during the referendum, is it simply to dilute what they know they’re getting destroyed by? (or one of the things anyway)
While we’re at it, the befuddled old crone Goldie apparently doesn’t even remember that her own party happily booted her out on her own backside because she did so badly.
Funny how she doesn’t seem too keen to relive that particular memory to her right-wing pals at the record? 😉
Am I right in saying that W Alexander and Gray often threatened tha SNP with a vote of no confidence but did not have the balls to “bring it on”as was Wendy,s war cry,When is Spud going to use that phrase.
“I would like to see the SNP attack claims like these head on and nip them in the bud”
They do constantly, and it simply doesn’t get reported for obvious reasons.
Clootie
If you’re just getting fed up now,you must have the patience of a saint.
The way the hacks have had to prostitute themselves at The Telegraph comes as no surprise :
link to theguardian.com
However BBC news is also in the firing line :
link to independent.co.uk
and I can’t help thinking the lid has come off as a result of the Referendum spin offs. It is therefore a pity that the Inde piece couldn’t get round to acknowledging that. This MSM attention may open the debate out over the mnext couple of months.
“…We’re not sure why the commentariat has chosen en masse, under no immediately obvious provocation, to eschew that same common sense now. If anyone can explain it to us, we’d very much like to hear from you…”
May I suggest that as this is the year of the sheep the commentariat are now performing like a flock of sheep. I suspect they may continue in this manner until they turn into monkeys in 2016
For the life of me cannot identify the shepherd or the sheepdogs.
On a number of occasions recently I have mentioned the phenomenon of propaganda cues, or prompts. These are “lines” devised by the teams of media advisers – or “spin-doctors” employed by political parties. They are generally recognisable because they are not concerned with policy issues but with a process of manipulating the public’s perceptions of political rivals.
The “smear story” is the most obvious of these. But propaganda cues can be more subtle. The point is that their main purpose is, not necessarily to do direct and immediate damage, but to let supporters know what to focus on at any given time and to provide material that others can reference repeatedly in an ongoing propaganda campaign.
The idea is to generate a meme. Very often, this meme is a complete lie. Or, at least, a severe distortion of the truth. But it is used by those who pick up on the cue as if it represented established fact in the hope that people will thoughtlessly accept it as such.
Very often, these cued onslaughts appear when a politician or party is in trouble. They are used to divert attention from a serious gaffe or scandal – such as Jim Murphy’s recent attack on NHS Scotland on the basis of totally spurious procedure cancellation statistics.
The piece featuring former Scottish Tory leader, Annabel Goldie, in the Daily Record (Tuesday 17 February) is an excellent example of a propaganda cue. We can expect that it will be dutifully picked up by commentators in the British media and British nationalism’s rag-tag band of amateur propagandists on various social media platforms and in the below-the-line comment facilities of the British press.
The meme in this instance is the idea that the SNP somehow worked hand-in-hand with the Tories at Holyrood during the minority government of 2007-2011.
more at link to goo.gl
First post.
Is anyone else just really dismayed and dejected by all this? I have come to the conclusion that we will never get independence, as its virtually impossible when the unionist camp control all forms of mainstream media which vociferously supports their cause.
We are truly through the looking glass now, it doesn’t matter what actually is, all that matters is the perception among the masses and they control that perception. It’s fine to have a bunch of educated and informed people on here who actually know what’s going on, but that won’t win a referendum.
Case in point is most Scots still think Scotland is subsidised, its a belief you just can’t shake, as they believe what they are fed by the MSM. Just today on the BBC of all places there is an article about a ‘giant’ new oilfield coming online later this year, six days after the referendum there was a small article on the same website saying North Sea oil will last all of this century, but people don’t know these things as they aren’t given the same prominence as mendacious lies about Scotland.
Then you have the Deutsche Bank report a few days ago stating Scotland could be 15% better off independent, did you see that on the BBC news? ITV? Of course not, but we have the previous Deutsche Bank statement three days before the referendum baselessly claiming (and authored by a member of the British establishment) that Scotland would enter a new great depression if we voted yes, despite providing precisely no figures to back this up.
You can’t beat that, how can you? It will always be the case that most people will get their information from the MSM, and they own the MSM and always will, so how can you fight that?
I don’t think we’ll ever be independent to be honest.
Maigrit Curran,
Now there’s a face that shouldn’t be allowed on the telly at any time but then again she is a member of the Halloween party. Do you think the SLABs will ever get tired of spouting pish and drivel?
I think its time they used the Thin Lizzy song
Don’t believe a word
Gary
@ Malcolm John
Stick around honey – we’re getting there.
@Malcolm John
Oh, I know…why don’t we all just collectively walk into the woods and end it all now, Malcolm John?
OR NOT
Take your agenda or your world record level of pessimism elsewhere.
Labour and Scotland’s Champion rewriting history yet again.
Since these hypocrites are the ones who set up our parliamentary system with the express purpose of ensuring that no one party would form an overwhelming majority govt. (that went well 🙂 ), I’d like to know how consensual politics escaped their notice for the past 16 years.
I didn’t notice their complaints when they worked with both the conservatives and Lib dems in its early history. I also don’t recall much acrimony in their recent agreed relationships over austerity or the referendum either, but hey projection is what they do.
Let’s be clear on how tight both Labour and the Conservatives are. They’ve ran the UK between themselves for decades through one disaster after another. They’ve run the biggest political closed shop duopoly in our history and what do we, the public, have to show for allowing this cosy wee arrangement?
Decades of future debt which we will be passing on to our children and possibly their children. As to the media who encouraged support in this system of government? This closed shop? Just why should we give a flying f**k what their opinion is? Their advice to the reading/listening/viewing public has worked out so spectacularly well to date.
THIS article is bang on the money. There was NO SNP ‘informal agreement’ with the Tories, yet that doesn’t stop the Labour party and their assorted coterie of unionist liars – and Margaret Curran – telling Scots the exact opposite.
It may be worth looking, but to my recollection, during that term, Labour voted with the Tories on many more occasions than the SNP ever did.
Margaret Curran of the lying Labour party, re-inventing events as usual. Fortunately, there are many of us, including REV Stu who can clearly remember 2007-11.
This attempt at revisionism really makes me fucking furious. It was this period of government which above all convinced me that the SNP were an effective competent party, willing and able to govern in the interests of everyone in Scotland, whether independent or not.
They had their own proposals, which on their own were popular (abolish prescription charges bridge tolls & tuition fees, council tax freeze, slimmed down cabinet & govt depts etc) – but also they were willing to accept proposals from any other party.
Labour as I remember wanted modern apprenticeships, Tories wanted police, Libdems wanted more childcare. They got them all. And I also remember Swinney offering to consider any proposal provided they identify where savings could be made to fund it.
I remember him cancelling GARL, and challenging Labour to choose where the savings could be found if it was to be reinstated. Did Labour rise to the challenge? Of course not.
I didn’t imagine all that, and neither did the electorate who re-elected them with an overall majority four years later, impressed with what they had seen.
Carry on with your revisionism, unionists, and you will be heading for oblivion and ridicule
Jeeze…..Anabell Goldie is suffering from Jim Murphys rose tinted recall disease.
The only real difference between them is Anabell actually graduated.
Stu….. You should run a bullshit Oscar ceremony.
I’ll put up a trophy lol.
Great first post Malcolm. And you’re right we will never become Independent as long as we always play on their pitch.
The only chance we have is if we can build a pitch of our own, whether or not we can do that remains to be seen.
@ Malcom John,
Hope it’s your last!
@Malcolm John.
Don’t despair. I was brought up in East Kilbride in the fifties. So high! So cold! I hear you say, but we could still throw snowballs at the Orange Walk.
It’s time to roll up the sleeves…
It does all feel like wading through deep doodoo, as in the Peat Warrior’s snide attack
“The Nationalist pitch in 2015 seems to fall into two or three key arguments. One. Dump the calculations and the tactics. Vote with your heart. Give Labour a kicking. Punish their hubris. You know it’ll be fun. “Red Tories.” “They’re all the same.” Better Together. Etcetera.”
If any Scots polls had flopped back to near the status quo, say 3 months after 18th Sept then fine, these chancers had a point but we can all see they’re solid bye bye SLab. People know now they’ve been completely stiffed by red/blue tory THE VOW fraud. That’s why BetterTogether won, vote NO for devo max, federal UK but guess what suckers, you’re getting f all.
A Cif under all that Lalland Warrior bleh says,
“If the SNP were to win as few as 12 seats, it would be taken as evidence that they were no longer a serious threat to the status quo. We could then forget about not just independence but also any additional powers for the Scottish Parliament.”
Once you stand Bettertogether with blue tories and “give” a country like Scotland some devo, they just keep wanting and taking more and more. That’s why they cooked up Project Fear, destroyed SLab cred and why SLab under creepy Murphy are barely clinging on. Even if they do stop SLab end of rule in May, its only going to be temporary.
Real power in Scotland sits in Pacific Quay and they wont go quietly either.
Malcolm John
The MSM is becoming less influential on public opinion,otherwise SNP would not even be the most popular party in Holyrood.
Whilst it is still a massive battle to overcome MSM lies,sites like this along with social media make it easier to get the truth to people.
To be honest though,I think most people only take an interest in politics of change when things are a bit tough for them,so the status quo will have to tangibly fail before people wake up eg.Greece.
UK political system is failing the people of UK therefore more people are looking beyond the guff that the political elite feed them.
I think our time will come.
@JayR
First of all I have no agenda and resnet your fatuous suggestion that I do. Secondly some might call it realism, instead of attacking me for telling it like it actually is, how about you provide even one tiny suggestion as to how to counter this? If the no campaign literally control and own all forms of mainstream media, and they do, how on earth are we ever going to convince a majority of people that they are being lied to when the only source of information most people use is mainstream media?
Give us some suggestions then, and preferably some better than lighting a campfire and singing ‘We shall overcome’ or Kum Ba Yah.
Wulls says:
“Stu….. You should run a bullshit Oscar ceremony.
I’ll put up a trophy lol.”
An excellent idea! The annual WoS Awards!
Worst piece of newspaper journalism.
Worst piece of broadcast journalism.
Most biased interview.
Most stupid political policy.
The most transparent attempt to deceive voters.
Biggest lie by a politician.
Etc etc etc
Nominations. We vote. An awards ceremony!
Sounds great to me! Or, am I getting carried away? 😉
Creepiest Creep.
Tartan Tories again….Giant Sigh….
Ur We Aye, OK then you win whats next we’ve heard that one
Fascists, Extremists, Separatists, Nazis, Closet Commies,
We’ve been called them all…..and now the song..
And we’re still here…ta dah
Some things never change. From October 2009:
SNP MSP Kenneth Gibson has written to Iain Gray calling on him to apologise for the Labour’s alliances with the Tories over issues such as going to war in Iraq and wasting billions on Trident.
The Labour MSP was also accused of blundering by conniving with the Tories over attempting to exclude the SNP from a UK-wide election leaders’ debate.
This follows reports about Lord Mandelson saying he would have no qualms about continuing his career under a Tory government and the current Labour UK Energy Secretary, and someone tipped to succeed Gordon Brown as Labour leader, Ed Miliband, saying there are no “big differences” between Labour and the Tories.
Major issues where Labour has allied with the Tories in opposition to opinion in Scotland include:
Voting for the illegal war in Iraq
Wasting billions on Trident and its replacement despite warnings that the money should be spent on front line services
Voting to keep the Council Tax which they both raised by 100% over 10 years
Opposing the Scottish people having their say in a referendum
I’m with Paula Rose. Stick around Malcolm. Give him a break folks. We all get down at times. But we SHALL prevail. The UK is simply a tough old bird that is taking an overly long time dying. But dying IT IS nevertheless.
MrObycyek at 5.43
That’s exactly what the SNP does. It immediately publishes a measured response and rebuff of any nonsense
Then the media generally doesn’t publish it – or publishes it a the bottom of page 8 or the like.
That’s the problem
The SNP probably has the busiest and best press operation with the media refusing to carry its stuff.
Ed Miliband: ‘no differences between Labour and the Tories in some areas’
There are “no differences” between Labour and the Conservatives in a number of key policy areas, one of Labour’s leading candidates to succeed Gordon Brown has said.
link to telegraph.co.uk
From DAILY TELEGRAPH 26 Sept 2009
And clearly the electorate approved of the consensual (to a certain extent) politics of the minority SNP government 2007 to 2011 given that they voted for them as a huge majority government in 2011, which you will recall was never meant to happen. Desperate days for Slab : )
@Malcolm John
You can bemoan the darkness or light a candle or two, like most folks posting here. It might seem like a tough hill to climb but think of the view from the top. You choose. Now that’s the best pep talk I can manage at this time of night and I have run out of cliches.
Welcome aboard.
@Malcolm John
I’m 66years old and i know independence will be in my lifetime but even if that were not to be the case it does’nt stop me trying for my kids and grankids and all future generations of my country, because that’s the point
This is my country…
@Malcolm John
Don’t give up! There is always a way.
I hope you stick around.
Ah I remember that period as the time I realised Labour were forever dead to me!
Swinney: What will it take to support the budget!
Labour : We want 10000 Apprenticeships!
Swinney: Good idea,I can give you 25000!
Labour : Shove it up your arse!
A sense of deja vu again
I am sure that Severin or someone ran a similar story in the Groaniard a while back, again quoting extensively from Goldie. Has Clegg just cribbed someone else’s homework?
Is there a difference between Maggie Thatcher and Maggie Curran?
Vote Curran Get Thatcher!
Both had no time for the working classes.
Just there to wield power and fill their pockets.
It did at least take 30 years to show that Thatcher hayed the Scots, use us a guinea pig with the poll tax, lied about planning to close the Coal Mines, Lied about knowing about the Pedophiles
in parliament, while we straight away when Curren is lying- her lips move!
Malcolm John
Taking concern trolling to a new level.
BYE
Malcolm, we can only keep on fighting, yes we are surrounded by unscrupulous people but there is one thing in our favour, people are listening. If you are on twitter, you will see that there are more of us than them at least we are out there.
The demographics will change as well, the old folk who voted No will not be here, I know I am one of them, no, I voted YES but am getting on so I speak from experience. The other thing is the numbers who have actually joined the pro Independence Parties. There is a difference in supporting a Party to actually joining, some have never been that political but they are now.
We can counter attack and they are terrified, if we get even 20 to 30 SNP MP’s the Diarrhoea will run down their legs, 11 was too many for them. What got the first Referendum in 1979?
Malcolm John
Welcome in MJ . Now you even sound like a WINGER.
It;s tough and frustrating but keep faith. The Referendum feelings are still with us all. The scare tactics of BT have been pushed into overdrive and it will get worse.
But your not alone. We Wingers know it;s a long slog but the prize , a free Scotland , will be worth it.
Take heart in that we nearly did win the ref. Take heart too that YESERS are a persistent mob. they will never give up. Each and every one of us has keep telling the folk around us of each of the lies.
Membership to the SNP/SSP/Greens has been fantastic and these folk are ready and willing to chap doors, leaflet etc. No going in the box for us.
And your first post says Wings has a new supporter. Another one eh 🙂 we keep doing this and everyone will be on WINGS.
Most folk know the drill. Keep talking . find their lies and tell everyone. Annoy the hell out of everyone.. I do , and they promise to vote SNP …. Just to get some peace 😉
We can do this MJ. The whole YES movement was based on hope. Dinny go running out buddy. We know what it’s like and have a few kind words when things get tough.
Scotland has changed .
Think again says:
“It`s from the Record and from the pen of David Clegg so I am suspicious from the start and looking for the agenda.
Why is Annabelle taking the lead here rather than Ruth”
_______
Because, as the article above explains, it is a blatant lie and deliberate deception intended to mislead an already dwindling readership.
By getting some dittery auld Tory bint like Goldie to spout this mince in the Red Tory Rectum they seek to continue treating their readership like fools, with the cerebral capacity of a Goldfish, and in this case “Goldiefish.”
By doing this they also prevent Ruthy, as leader of the blue Tory Scottish branch, from being outed as a blatant liar, very much in the same way as Murphy Marra has been.
😉
Desmond 🙂
Screen washed again…………..:)
@ Malcolm John says:
‘Is anyone else just really dismayed and dejected by all this? I have come to the conclusion that we will never get independence, as its virtually impossible when the unionist camp control all forms of mainstream media which vociferously supports their cause.’
In the wake of the referendum, I remember thinking that we shouldn’t go into another referendum campaign without two things happening first: 1. the British Labour Party in Scotland, the only credible British political party remaining in Scotland, being destroyed; and 2. the total domination by the forces of the Establishment of the mainstream media – the real no campaign, with the imperial broadcaster in the vanguard – being broken.
The first is happening before our eyes, faster than we can have ever imagined. The second, despite the arrival of the very welcome if pedestrian National and the mooted online six o’clock news (things have gone very quiet there), looks as far away as ever. The Rev is beyond heroic and social media is a clear asset but we obviously remain comprehensively outgunned by the sophisticated propaganda machine that is the BBC, pumping its output on a daily basis into millions of homes. Until we go some way to addressing that situation the struggle to normalise the constitutional arrangements of our country will continue to be an uphill one.
Malcolm John,
a few years ago,the vast majority of folk in Scotland thought an independent Scotland couldn’t survive.The referendum debate changed that.Nowadays the vast majority of Scots think we could survive.They think independence is a viable option,though not the option they chose in September.
The prospect of a better,fairer Scotland is still open to us.Despite the best efforts of the British establishment roughly half of Scots already want to take that option.More will come our way as the promise of things getting “better together” is seen to be a fraud.Im not quitting.Nor,I suspect,are you.
john king says @ “Malcolm John”
“Taking concern trolling to a new level.”
“BYE”
___
AYE
🙂
Didn’t Salmond at FMQs once point out how many times Labour sided the Tories in votes in the 2007-11 parliament? And it turned out to be a good deal more times than the SNP and Tories sided with each other.
@Malcolm John
“Is anyone else just really dismayed and dejected by all this?”
Yes, I am. Also sure that a great many others are too. I understand your frustration about the mountains we must climb, though I don’t share you pessimism.
The might of the MSM and the BBC in particular is a formidable obstacle but no point giving up just because the road looks rocky. You have to fight for change, more than 80,000 Scots have done that by joining a pro-indy party since the referendum.
Did Gandhi or Mandela fall at the first hurdle? No, they chose to fight on and overcome the obstacles placed in front of them.
If you are unable to help by knocking on doors consider helping financially to our own newly formed grassroots media by subsrcribing to iScot magazine or contributing to Independence Live fundraiser.
http://www.iScot.scot
link to t.co
Please stick around, I liked your first post.
Worried about the pathetic contribution from some supposed supporters
We are sitting less than three months from a general election miles ahead in the polls by all measurement, with an opposition reducing itself to derision and our leadership by far the most popular of all in Scotland and we get some carping nonsense.
The polls may indeed change, the tide may go the other way. It is unlikely to do so – but it may
But we can guarantee it does by shooting ourselves in the head a the moment.
Confidence is an essential part of a winning campaign. Lack of publicly demonstrated confidence can seriously damage any campaign
@ Malcolm John And when your granwains ask What did You do for the cause of Independence granda.
Ah bumped ma gums wie ancient news tae Wingers, because the Meidja were to big to be conquered.
Thurr awe sleekit, pauchlin, leein, pruchin basturts.
Vote SNP
A single post does not a troll make. Cut MJ some slack in my opinion. There are many who despair because of the lies and not all visit Wings.
The BBC is a mains sewer pipe straight into the home of anyone who watches it.
In 1997, nobody believed the SNP could become the government of a reconvened Scottish Parliament, not without experience in a coalition or as the major opposition party.
In 2007, nobody believed the SNP could gain a majority – surely their minority government would be a failure, if it didn’t already collapse before the next election with a vote of no confidence.
In 2011, nobody believed the SNP could deliver a referendum, not when the Tories, NeoLib Dems and New Labour did everything they could to prevent the referendum taking place.
In 2012, nobody believed independence would get more than 20 or 30% in a referendum, not when Devomax was “on offer” and the entire mainstream media was on our side.
In 2014, nobody believed that the SNP would survive a No vote in the culmination of an 80-year campaign, much less become the third largest party in the entire UK.
I maintain that what lost us the referendum was time. We didn’t have enough time to get to everyone who still got all their information from the unchallenged media. Notice how the further you went from populated areas, the higher the No vote? That’s because it’s much easier to canvass and congregate in highly developed areas where the people aren’t so spread out.
You can’t unlearn the truth when it’s revealed to you. Once you realise just how biased and unreliable the media is, you ALWAYS question it. You say it yourself: we’re through the looking glass now. What we need to do is keep going. Keep spreading the word, convincing others. Reassure anyone shaken by the oil price scaremongering or the invented NHS crisis. We can’t stop now.
We started in the 20-30% region. After two years of MSM collusion, big business, retail giants, financial tycoons, political high-heid-yins, rich celebrities, the civil service, and the Queen herself, you’d think it’d shrink. But it didn’t – it grew.
Aye, we’ll be independent someday.
Hold the bus there folks –
Others have made the same points as Malcolm John
I thought we welcomed new people and I wonder if the name had a feminine identity some of you would be singing a different tune.
Well said, Taranaich
We need to be reminded of the direction of travel by taking that kind of overview. No matter how bleak it sometimes feels, this is on the right road, and it is travelling
Malcolm John:
I don’t think we’ll ever be independent to be honest.
Welcome. A good first post blemished by the last sentence. Keep spirits high – always offer hope. Finish on a high. Leaving dying swans to Tchaikovsky.
Dipped into ‘Do Not Break Our Unity’ on FB.
Strictly Neanderthal Special Needs.
There are fifty shades of Unity in the UK.
The best and No.1 is the Unity between Westminster and the City of London.
This unity exists between wealthy Tory politicians and the very wealthy citizens of the UK – like the bankers at Canary Wharf.
This is the best Unity – but only for the very few, the very wealthy, who pass the money, back and forth, to and from, one another.
By the way, that’s your money they’re passing.
The worst unity is No. 50 and exists, barely, between Westminster and the poor, the disabled, the sick and the unemployed as well as the deprived and poorly educated.
If you are among this group of people, you may think you are part of the Unity,
but the wealthy Tories don’t.
This is the worst Unity – because it’s a lie.
In fact, the Unity in the UK ceases to exist long before No.50.
Truth is, it stops around No. 5.
No.6 is the start of the 45 shades of lying.
Do not break our Unity?
Like a’m zipped up the back a’ ma heid.
These poor souls really believe that they are the same peepil as Dave Cameron, the aristocratic millionaire with more Establishment connections than a BT exchange.
No wonder they’re called Zombies – if you haven’t seen the film, that term won’t mean much.
But it’s a near perfect fit.
The Three Stooges keep pitching disinformation,distortions,misstatement,calumniation through the compliant MSM.
But The Rev like Ted Williams (greatest hitter in Baseball) knocks every one of there lies straight out the park.
@MJ,
I used to be a doubting Thomas until I made the decision not to watch, listen to nor read anything pushed at me by the Mad Scream Media.
The answer is simple, don’t entertain thier propositions. Unplug, tune out and chill.
Que sara…
Excellent article Rev 12/10 this time .
I may be corrected , but my recollection , as reported by the usual suspects at the time are as follows ;
On the morning of J S first budget it was touch an go as Patrick Harvie ( who even today commands respect by most) kept JS on a shoe string for more money towards “green” projects mainly house insulation grants money . PH at the very last minute asked for £100k and John had to reconfigure his budget to find the required money as PH was the extra vote needed to get the budget thro’ John Swinney arrived in the chamber with only minutes to spare .
I recall thinking well done JS and thinking good on you PH for playing a good game . It really brought home to me the stupidity of the ” Party Whip” etc which has been covered here before of course .
Firstly the old grey matter may be wrong , or if the above is innacurate then maybe I can blame the media for imparting inexactitudes as we now appreciate they do .
What Taranaich said with knobs on.
You can’t unlearn the truth.
We’ve been lied to, they’ve been caught in the lie.
We’ve been robbed, they’ve been caught in the theft.
We’ve been manipulated, their propaganda machines exposed.
We know the who, the why and the how. The establishment far from winning the referendum have discovered, much to their dismay, that they now face a greater crisis in the aftermath. Their appalling campaign demonised half a nation and denigrated and shamed both. Their comeuppance is long overdue, but its going to happen never the less. Their actions in winning a vote, lost them an electorate.
Our turn is coming for one simple reason – The Westminster establishment cannot help acting like Westminster establishment.
O/T What I imagine is Councillor Terry Kelly (Wishaw, and a Labour rosette on as far as I could see?) slagging off Another Angry Voice for pointing out Nicola’s good anti-austerity line on FB….
“Terry Kelly:
AAV, there is one born every minute. The snp believe in nothing and stand for nothing save Scottish independence. They are racist to the core and would do a deal with anyone. “nationalism is an infantile disease it is the measles of the planet earth” (Einstein).
From 2007 to 2011 they bought the support of the Tories by including Tory proposals in their Scottish budget. Prior to this they also infamously brought the Callaghan Labour Government down by voting with the Tories and consequently brought Thatcher to power, you deserve each other”.
Idiot, so many parroted lines of tribal nonsense I lost count.
Brian Taylor, BBC Political editor in Scotland says:
“Why is a Liberal Democrat leaflet predicting overwhelming success for the SNP in the forthcoming general election?”
“PS: I’ll have to give that Lib Dem leaflet another glance later to find the references to coalition with the Conservatives. No doubt they are in there somewhere.”
Aye, right!
🙂
Promoting your rivals
link to archive.today
FFS , I never learn . Googled it .
Doh !
Self correction , the Climate Change Bill and £100m budget referred to on first post was not until 2009 .
See you Jim , I’m gonna apologise . Sorry folks .
Price of a barrel of Brent crude closed above $63 on February 18th so its probably going to be back up to $90 by May. Should be interesting watching a zozzled old SLab Lord explaining it away though. They probably wont even report $63 and up anyway but its good to see at least one attack on Scotland’s £1.5 trillion oil reserves unravel in front of them.
It seems to me that the line that ‘Labour were hand-in-glove’ with the Tories as part of Better Together is working.
Hence this Labour line saying that the SNP were hand-in-glove with the Tories previously.
Malcolm John
“I don’t think we’ll ever be independent to be honest.”
I didn’t think the SNP would win 2 Scottish Elections in a row, or 2 European elections in a row.
I didn’t think we would hit 100,000 members on the back of a narrow referendum defeat (a narrow defeat despite being up against the entire force of the uk establishment and all her allies abroad, almost the entire UK media including our despicable state broadcaster.
And I didn’t think we’d be polling at over 50%, double labour’s figure heading into a UK general election (where traditionally the SNP have struggled to make inroads in the ‘2 horse race’.
So maybe have a little faith. If you want to help make it happen there are plenty of avenues. Leafletting, letter writing, canvassing talking to friends, colleagues and family.
Yeah,perplexed at what Malcolm John did to deserve the criticism.
His post seemed honest and heartfelt to me and not dissimilar to what i read on here regularly.
@manandboy
I Also dipped into the ‘Do not break out unity’ site. Absolutely vile. Had to leave after about 5 minutes, I could actually feel my blood pressure rising.
No reasoned posts, just “SNP are scum, especially Sturgeon”. I really despair that there are people in Scotland that ignorant.
The EBC (news & current affairs) has to be brought to account for its treacherous and biased reporting of Scottish politics, and it’s obvious love affair with SLAB, and detestation of anything to do with the most popular party in this country. They are blatantly carrying out propaganda for unionist parties in WESTMINSTER.
I do not pay the EBC tax so they can run down my country or my political party and belittle the people of Scotland. There is a very bad smell coming from the WESTMINSTER ESTABLISHMENT & their relationship with the mmm “independent EBC” cough cough. Unlike the rest of the MSM they have a duty to treat all licence payers equally and fairly and should be totally unbiased, as should be our employees in the EBC. Impartiality is supposed to be their watch word.
The board of governors are just a bunch of stooges whittling away their time at vast expense to the licence fee payers and to give them some expenses and a place to doss while the HOL is not mmm”active” cough cough. There is more life in a tramps vest than there is in this bunch of placemen.
Enough is enough where is the democracy in this totally corrupt system of favour and grace operated and controled by the LONDON ESTABLISHMENT.
David Cameron PM used a very unusual word today.
I personally cannot recall the use of this word in the entire Referendum debate – but I could be mistaken obviously.
Today, he used this phrase:-
“a party (SNP) that actually want to abolish our country”
Cameron is not known for choosing the wrong word.
In this case he was speaking to a group of people in a factory – not exactly under pressure then.
And yet, he refers to to the SNP
as wishing to ‘abolish’ ‘our country’.
That may just have been a Freudian slip right their.
Meaning that Cameron knows the devastating impact that Scottish Independence would have on England.
Today, that knowledge may just have escaped as a word,
from that part of his mind
where he keeps the thoughts that should never be spoken.
Words like ‘purrr’ for example.
And now ‘abolish’.
I have not – been drinking.
Taranaich,
I hope you do not mind if I quote your post verbatim. It is quite excellent. I can well remember the days, when the idea of an SNP Government was regarded as simply impossible. Those days are long gone, and he power of London and the state media apparatus is now much weaker. We now have a formidable First Minister, an enormous membership, and keen, willing canvassers and campaigners.
Taranaich posted Quote : “In 1997, nobody believed the SNP could become the government of a reconvened Scottish Parliament, not without experience in a coalition or as the major opposition party.
In 2007, nobody believed the SNP could gain a majority – surely their minority government would be a failure, if it didn’t already collapse before the next election with a vote of no confidence.
In 2011, nobody believed the SNP could deliver a referendum, not when the Tories, NeoLib Dems and New Labour did everything they could to prevent the referendum taking place.
In 2012, nobody believed independence would get more than 20 or 30% in a referendum, not when Devomax was “on offer” and the entire mainstream media was on our side.
In 2014, nobody believed that the SNP would survive a No vote in the culmination of an 80-year campaign, much less become the third largest party in the entire UK.”
The fact is, with each passing day, more and more Scots are learning how they have been deceived by unionists, Westminster the mainstream media and especially the BBC. Independence is coming. As Taranaich said, you cannot unlearn the truth.
SNP canvassing is getting underway everywhere, so get involved, if you can. Let’s leave Westminster in no doubt whatsoever, as to how Scotland feels.
@Taranaich.
Dear Thunderer,
You say it all really. Mair poo’er tae yoor elbuck.
Can’t stop the future. It belongs to us.
O/T A number of like minded people plan to meet up this coming Saturday in the Invergowrie Inn by Dundee for a bit of chat and socialising.
Starts around 19:00, hope you can make it. See the following post in Off Topic for more details:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Annabel of the Tartan Knickers, we never did get to the bottom of that mystery? Bum-bee tartan one supposes. 🙂
My memory of the years 2007-2011 was of the Westminster parties ganging up against the SNP to make their lives as hard as possible. They also huddled together in private rooms in Westminster to come up with the Calman commission report – totally against what the SNP were doing in Scotland with the Big Conversation, involving Scottish people in what the future of Scotland should be.
In fact, it was the cosy Westminster alliance of 2007-2011 which helped a lot of us who didn’t vote SNP in 2007 to realise we needed to in 2011.
I see the latest Record Survation poll still has a tidy gap of 17 points between the SNP and Labour (45% to 28%) Usual hand wringing from the Labour supporting Record. Please vote for Labour or Ed won’t get in crap. This despite their own poll only showing 46% of Labour voters prefer Ed as PM.
OT but interesting – I’ve just read in the Catalan press that David Torrance is going to publish a “biography” of Sturgeon next month. Haven’t seen it mentioned here so far.
I saw things differently at the time. The Unionist parties thought forcing the SNP to work with the Blue Tories would damage them. So The Liberals and the Red Tories stood back.
How do you eat an elephant Malcolm John?
One bite at a time.
“Never going to get independence” is not a sentiment we recognise here, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a troll.
Doom-mongering is a bit pointless to my mind. Better spending the energy trying to change things. Most people here are of that view. If you only come here bringing depression and despondency you’ll get short shrift. If you join in the spirit of Wings you’ll probably feel better 😉
Marga
Really? I would have thought Nicola is a bit young for a biography. He will be extensively re-writing it in 10 years time
FFS people. Really don’t see the need to treat Malcolm John the way some of you have. Surely not the Wings way.
It was an innocuous statement of frustration. A lot of mine are the same.
I’m known for not suffering fools but i need to remember that i often am one.
I would tend to agree with Graeme. Malcolm’s post at 6.19 made a lot of very good points. The establishment did go into Soviet era propaganda mode and it is an uphill battle. In the face of that we still managed to give them the fright of their lives.
Malcolm’s one line of despair at being unable to counter that level of propaganda was to my mind fair comment.
Concern trolls drip on and on, raising the level of doom with every next (and frequent) post. One moment of frustration is not concern trolling. We have all had moments of frustration with the media or with the Yes strategy or whatever. However, we don’t give in, in fact many of us are just getting into our second wind. We are in this for the long haul. Never, ever say die Malcolm 🙂
It seems odd to try go back to 2007 to try make the SNP look “cosy” with the tories.
Especially since at the very next election in 2011 the SNP, despite this supposed “coalition/lovefest” with the tories, were returned with the “impossible” outright majority…!
The electorate clearly saw something about the way the SNP worked that they decided they wanted much more of it without any the other parties hindering them.
Around 8 years in power and still incredibly popular in government.
Incredibly they (lib/lab/con) cannot figure out why that is the case.
That says it all really.
Just got another two diehard Daily Record readers to change their paper after showing them this site and one is a now ex labour member
could not get them to go with the national as they said no racing/good football and its to political but got them to go with the Sun (best i could do and i know what the Sun is like but it does not claim to be scotlands champion)
galamcennalath says:
18 February, 2015 at 7:07 pm
Wulls says:
“Stu….. You should run a bullshit Oscar ceremony.
I’ll put up a trophy lol.”
An excellent idea! The annual WoS Awards!
Worst piece of newspaper journalism.
Worst piece of broadcast journalism.
Most biased interview.
Most stupid political policy.
The most transparent attempt to deceive voters.
Biggest lie by a politician.
Etc etc etc
Nominations. We vote. An awards ceremony!
Sounds great to me! Or, am I getting carried away?
WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS AS WELL
I just wrote a brilliant (and long) piece on how great the SNP minority government was and how well the Tories with their likeable front “auntie Annabel” worked the system while Labs and Libs spat their dummies and threw their toys out of the pram and were duly punished in 2011, and then I dissappeared my comment into cyberoblivion by clicking the wrong button. Ho hum. 😀
And now, don’t kill me, but I have some respect for the Tories. At least they’re pretty honest about how nasty they are. Labs and Libs say one thing but vote with the Tories. Liars and charlatans.
@lumilumi
I love you posts, often they are a breath of fresh air to a stale article. I admire the way you write and your use words.
In other words, I like what you say.
However. I have to pull you up now for having any “respect for the Tories”. They are scum, pure and simple, who cares if they admit to being scum.
Earns no respect from me, admitting you are scum means you are scum. I have no respect for scum of any description.
In case no-one has found it yet, here’s a link to Severin Carrell’s 2014 article in the Guardian about the same issue. Rehash in Record?
link to theguardian.com
OT again, sorry – here’s the pre-publishing info on Torrance’s book on NS – either biography or political life, take your pick. And get ready for the launch, in Edinburgh, on 25 March, I think.
link to birlinn.co.uk
@VPentland Firth says: 18 February, 2015 at 4:47 pm:
“Thanks Rev. That’s how I remember it as well. The Labour Party’s attempt to invent an alternative history of the period 2007-2011 should fail because it is contrary to the facts, but when commentators push the invention as truth the public can begin to doubt their own memories.”
As I’ve been attempting to point out for many months the Establishment has been rewriting history for as long as there has been written history. In fact they have been rewriting history, if that were possible, since before history was first written.
Here’s a couple of basic facts to prove it. They used to claim the stone age Britons came across a land bridge where the English Channel is now and they were all Hunter/Gatherers. Modern forensic archaeology has proved that is balderdash.
The Oil & Gas industry mapped the sea bottom and proved there has inhabited land we now call, “Doggerland”, and when the rocky ridge that held back the cold polar seas breached it flooded Doggerland and the people moved to the nearest higher lands – Britain. In fact it has been shown that the Channel was a deeper area and there are modern maps and geology to prove it.
Archaeological digs at places like Howick , (in what is now north England), show that the Stone age people did indeed have large and long used settlements. Thus farmers & Hunter/Gatherers lived at the same time. Then we have the, claimed Anglo Saxon, Invasion, that was actually an invitation.
Again the several claims that, for example, The Normans were a different set of people than the Vikings and Norsemen. The Norman were actually member of those Vikings, or Norsemen, who settled in northern France (The Frankish kingdom), and their descendants. They founded the duchy of Normandy and, by conquest, colonized southern Italy and Sicily, then England and Wales and later also colonized Scotland, and Ireland.
The Normans, (the name comes from, “Nortmanni”, meaning, “Northmen”) – pagan barbarian pirates from Denmark, Norway, and Iceland. They began destructive plundering raids on European coastal settlements in the 8th century.
These raids, in the later 9th century on the northern and western coastlands of France grew both in size and frequency. They, the Vikings, secured a permanent foothold on Frankish soil in the valley of the lower Seine River.
A Viking named Rollo, reputedly a great leader of Viking raiders in Scotland and Ireland, soon emerged as the outstanding personality among the new settlers and in 911 the Frankish king, “Charles III the Simple”, made the Treaty of St. Clair-sur-Epte with Rollo.
The treaty ceded him the land around the mouth of the Seine and what is now the city of Rouen. Just a generation later the Vikings, or Normans, as they came to be known, had extended their rule westward to the districts of Lower Normandy.
From then on until the mid-11th century, the history of the Normans in Normandy was marked by a line of ruthless and forceful rulers calling themselves counts, or dukes, of Normandy and struggling to establish political hegemony over the indigenous Frankish population of the region.
Hands up those who were taught in History that the Vikings and Normans were different peoples? They were, in fact, just the same peoples but coming via a slightly different route. So there you go.
The first Establishment was the Romans and when they left the South Britons invited in the Anglo-Saxons who were from the same areas as the Vikings, Norsemen and then the Normans. It’s documented as European History but not taught as such in the United Kingdom. Can you thus blame the Unionist Parties for distorting the truth when our entire history is a pack of lies?
@ thepnr 11.57
Don’t get me wrong, I think the Tories are scum.
But if you had three pools of scum and the… uhm… nymphs (oh god, now I’m going to have have nightmares imagining what kinds of nymphs would emerge from those pools…) came out to plead their case, and one said, “I’m bit of scum and I’ll probably poison your and your children’s life”, and the two others, just as noxious, said, “We’re not like her, we’re healthy and wholesome and we’ll make your and your children’s life healthy and wholesome”, wouldn’t you have some respect for the first nymph for being sort of honest? Before turning to the clear, fresh pools and their lovely nymphs (SNP, Greens, SSP etc.)
@ Rober Peffers 12.41am
I love your history lessons. 🙂
The way we here in the north were taught history was that southern Scandi tribes (Anglo-Saxons) first took over the Celtic Great Britain island except the north (Scotland) and the west (Wales), then the north Scandi tribes (Vikings) first raided, then settled and controlled large parts of the British isles. Some Vikings settled in northern France, got a smattering of “civilization” and French, and their great grandsons invaded and took over the southern and eastern parts of the Great Britain island. William the Conqueror was a great grandson of a “savage” Viking chieftain.
We Finns, of course, existed peacefully in our homeland, tilling our soil, hunting and gathering, singing our Kalevalaic poetry, not bothering anybody, but being bothered first by the Vikings and then by their great grandsons, the Swedes (who came here on a Crusade in the 12th century) and the Rus (descendants of Vikings in what is now Russia) and then Russia. Not fair, but there you go.
We can always claim some pride by saying two words: Winter War.
The Tory, Labour and LibDem Unionists got comprehensively voted out because of their failure to support the, comprehensively major supported SNP policies. The Unionist opportunistic carry-on was noted, along with the lies and and back stabbing of the electorate. Bella, Gray and Tavish got comprehensively voted out because of their ignorance. Bella is electioneering. Voters like elephants never forget what what the red/blue/yellow cowardly monkeys’ Definitely not ‘not better together’. Bella is trying to save her own skin.
MSP’s comprehensively voted out, should not be allowed to return though the list, but only through majority re-election. That should concentrate some minds, instead of rewriting history.
Broken Referendum promises and lies at the fore front of voters minds. Pay back time. Trying to scare folk and lying is ultimately not a good policy. It always gets found out.
* ‘What the red/blue/yellow bellied monkeys’ did, to betray the electorate.’ Lied and broke every manifesto promise in the book. Deja Vue Pay back time. Non of the above.
@Peter A Bell
Fascinating piece on propaganda cues. I have a degree in psychology so this interests me. Can you suggest a book or other reference where I could find more information?
Labour have formed quite a few coalitions with the Tories at local council level. Does that mean Labour ruling out a coalition with the Tories at Westminster also reeks of posturing and hypocrisy?
Brilliant. Articles like this ought to be picked up and reported in full by The National.
@BornOptimist 0833
I totally agree. If Stuart’s posts were regularly to be published in the National as articles – especially those which deftly deconstruct and dynamite Labour Party lies – then we would have one serious avenue of defence against the propaganda cues described by @Peter A Bell elsewhere in this section.
(Rev., is there anything preventing this from happening from a journalistic perspective? What are the chances of you getting a regular column in the National for example?) Your piece exposing Labour skullduggery in the recent cancelled operations fiasco would have been a stotter. Thanks to you, Wingers get anti-independence lies in MSM de-bunked almost immediately but through the National we’d have another string to our bow.
@manandboy
“a party (SNP) that actually want to abolish our country”
Yes, interesting. There are over 170,000 words in the English language and he chose that one – abolish. It is a word with some cataclysmic synonyms too:
Abolish: To formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution).
Synonyms: put an end to, do away with, get rid of, scrap, end, stop, terminate, eradicate, eliminate, exterminate, destroy, annihilate, stamp out, obliterate, wipe out, extinguish, quash, expunge, extirpate (from Google).
My take is the same as yours I think in that these are all words that describe what Cameron fears might happen to the world that Cameron and his Bullingdon buddies currently inhabit should Scotland become independent. So yes, as you suggest, a Freudian slip.
@ robert peffers, thanks for the interesting history but once again you left out the great infuence the Flemish had on the history of Scotland.
Suffice to say they were considerably more civilized than the Norman thugs.
Two points:
1. Accusing Malcolm John of “concern trolling” just shows you don’t know what that expression means. He may be a bit more negative than some of us might like, but who can blame him? Chin up, Malcolm. Getting 45% against all those odds was a miracle. Most of those minds won’t be changed back any time soon, so the movement can only grow. Keep the faith!
2. I second (or third or fourth) the idea of a Wings Awards, especially if we can find ways to ambush the winners on the campaign trail, cameras in hand, and try to drag an acceptance speech out of them. I propose the fellas from Dateline Scotland to do the approaching.
Broadcasting is the first domino. When that falls the rest will follow, all the way to independence.
Bring it on.
well at the end of the day the situation from 2007-2011 shows that the electorate actually liked what the SNP were doing, so not sure that Mags Curran is right with the whole electorate not forgiving them for it since they elected them with a supposed impossible overwhelming majority…..
[…] Tory pals to keep Scottish Labour out of office.’” – Ms Curran confuses the Tories voting for Scottish government budgets with “keeping Scottish Labour out” – as opposed to the SNP having more MSPs than […]