The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

The full range of opinion

Posted on January 11, 2016 by

From a speech by David Mundell today:


Print Friendly, PDF & Email

2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 11 01 16 11:46

    The full range of opinion | Politics |

  2. 11 01 16 12:43

    The full range of opinion | Speymouth

93 to “The full range of opinion”

  1. Johnny says:

    None of those ‘influential voices’ have any stake in trying to push that line, of course.

  2. Rookiescot says:

    Do they honestly think we are all stupid up here?

  3. Dean Clark says:

    Look, if the record says it’s true then obviously it is true.

  4. stonefree says:

    That’s it confirmed …Pure Pish

  5. Author_Al says:

    99 of the amendments were probably to correct typos…

  6. bobajock says:



  7. fifer says:

    Well at least he’s picking up on Wings over Scotland’s use of referencing! Bit to go yet though.

  8. Neil Cook says:

    Influential Voices?
    The worst PM & Chancellor in living history
    The worst newspaper in Scotland

    Oh aye David, just landed in your spaceship per chance!

  9. Hamish McTavish says:

    I’m normally quite level headed but, FFS, a dinosaur and a gutter press rag as endorsements. What an utter arse.

    And anyway, unless it’s endorsed by the Daily Mail it can’t possibly be true.

  10. jim.watson says:

    David who?

  11. Pam McMahon says:

    It didn’t pass “unopposed” Mundell,you lying bastirt. It was opposed by the majority of elected representatives of the people of Scotland.

    The only purpose of the Scotland Office seems to be to clone liars.

  12. Macart says:

    Yup, the full range from A – B.

    Mr Mundell and his chain tuggers in Westminster will come to regret that speech. When you write off the opinions of what should now be half the electorate of a country, then don’t be too surprised when they tear your vow up before your smug, self important face and force feed it to you.

    Still, I’d like to thank Mr Mundell and those he mentioned for reminding us why we’re not in that box yet.

  13. Auld Rock says:

    Do they think we really do zip-up the back!!!

    I just hope that Holyrood kicks it into touch and Mundell into the deepest part of the ocean.

    Auld Rock

  14. Dan Huil says:

    Blue Tory compliments Red Tories. Brown’s chest swells with working-class pride. The editor of the Daily Record blushes to be praised by such an intellectual giant as Fluffy Mundell. Just as during the referendum Labour in Scotland continue to do the tories dirty work.

  15. winifred mccartney says:

    Translate ‘influential voices’ for THE PEOPLE WE DON’T BELIEVE since they have lied and lied to all of us. Gordon Brown – worst chancellor, pension robber, AND LIED TO PENSIONERS AT REF -daily record lies, and more lies and lazy one sided ‘journalism’ mouthpiece of labour with no journalistic endeavour required just believe everything kez says even though we all know she lies with impunity AND NO ONE TAKES HER TO TASK

  16. Dr Jim says:

    Did they seek opinions from foreign pop stars or actors or sports people because that’s what’s really important in informing Scottish policy

  17. Papadox says:

    O’ Davy forgot to mention the EBC. O/O, MSM and all the other hired gofers. Be careful what you ask for Davy cause ye might just get it. GET IT?

  18. MerkinScot says:

    “Influential voices from Gordon Brown to the Daily Record newspaper agreed.”
    I nearly soiled myself when I read that.

  19. Donald MacKenzie says:

    C,mon, he’s just having a laugh ………… isn’t he?

  20. heedtracker says:

    Tasty slice of double speak, to their Scotland region

    “But the Scottish Government elected in May will be able to set a budget in the new Scottish Parliament that reflects the devolution of income tax on earnings.

    It will be able to set a zero per cent rate, effectively increasing the personal allowance for Scottish tax payers, if it chooses to do so.

    It could introduce a 50 per cent tax rate, or new bands and rates altogether.”

    Sounds good but why have the great UKOK liars left out all rates also have to go up with that 50% hike?

    Maybe their BBC in Scotland will explain Fluffie waffle like “or new bands and rates altogether” a tad more clearly:-(

  21. Luigi says:

    Did ‘e really say that? Wot a plonker.

    From Gordon Brown to the Daily Record, That’s certainly a broad range. In fact, it accounts for almost the entire UUB (ultra unionist bias) wavelength. 🙂

  22. Anagach says:

    All or nearly all amendments proposed by other parties rejected but hey the Tories found some spelling errors to amend and that puts beyond doubt that its mince.

  23. mike cassidy says:

    As I have suggested elsewhere –

    The SNP should have it in their 2016 manifesto that they will reject the bill – and giving the reasons why.

    Let the people decide.

  24. carjamtic says:

    Machiavellian Max.

    They are revelling in the ‘doing over’ of the people of Scotland.

    Our country,our people’s honest voices are worth 1000 times more than the twisted wittering’s of these remote machine men.

    Even now,they continue to ‘bait’ us.

    We’ll see…….get me to the ballot box…..time to end this.

  25. Almannysbunnet says:

    Every one of the amendments proposed by the party that actually represents the people of Scotland was opposed, every single one. Not debated by those that voted to oppose, not debated by the red tories who chose to abstain, that was the time for them to be in the bar. But tally ho out they pour for the vote, democracy served. My arse! Does Mundell really think that Scotland isn’t watching what’s going on in Westminster?
    Is he really so out of touch he thinks the Daily Record is an “influential voice” in Scotland? We are watching your every move Fluffy. Half this nation woke up over a year ago and the rest are coming to life every day. Away with you, you timorous buffoon.

  26. Marie Clark says:

    ” Influential voices from Gordon Brown to the Daily Record newspaper agreed”.

    Zat right, aye! Well, well, who knew eh.” and a cry of pish rang out above the crowd”.

    See some of the rats are starting to desert the sinking ship. Do you think with some of them that the penny is beginning to drop.

  27. call me dave says:

    No irony or fluff filter at the Scotland Office speech writing department then. FGS!

    Old Rock yer right!

    No buttons or zips or velcro.

  28. Petra says:


    ‘Leading German Journalist Admits CIA ‘Bribed’ Him and Other Leaders of the Western ‘Press’ ….. great video.’

    ‘Udo Ulfkotte, a former editor of Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (which is one of Germany’s largest newspapers), has decided to go public about the corruption of himself and the rest of the Western ‘news’ media, because he finds that this corruption is bringing Europe too close to a nuclear war against Russia, which he concludes the U.S. aristocracy that controls the CIA wants to bring about, or else to bring closer to the brink. ”I’ve been a journalist for about 25 years, and I’ve been educated to lie, to betray, and not to tell the truth to the public.”

    ‘After Syria peace deal US will overthrow Assad by different means’ – political analyst’

    ‘Assange on ‘US Empire’, Assad govt overthrow plans & new book ‘The WikiLeaks Files’

    Julian Assange has just co-authored a book – the WikiLeaks Files, and it paints a picture of systemic US torture and killing as well as the destruction of the lives and livelihoods of billions of people right around the world.

    ‘Iran’s Banks – one of the 3 countries in the world that is not under private central banking system.’

    Chunkymark: Tories are hateful evil bastards stoop so low describing Junior Doctors as Terrorist Sympathisers

  29. Onwards says:

    It doesn’t live up to the Smith Commission, but more importantly it doesn’t live up to the spirit of the vow and the expectations that were raised before the referendum.
    After the poll that showed YES in the lead, the impression was given of genuine home rule, a federal type system. One last chance if we remained in the UK..

    Of course, backtracking was always on the cards when the wording of the Vow was kept deliberately vague.

  30. Breastplate says:

    Did he say this live at the Apollo.
    It gave me quite a laugh.

  31. call me dave says:


    “Away with you, you timorous buffoon”.

    Your too kind! 🙂

  32. Keith Hynd says:

    Fluffy is once again desperately trying to get someone,, anyone to say that the new powers will be used!

    After all there is no point in planting a booby trap when no booby would go near it!

    We all know how and why the Bill has been contrived in such a way, Fluffy is simply trying to direct our attention away from the big fluorescent sign that reads, NEW UXB STAY AWAY!

  33. Lollysmum says:

    80 of those amendments were corrections of punctuation (adding commas etc) or reserving further powers which now need consent of Sec of State to be enacted i.e adding WM vetoes to prevent Scotgov using those powers.

    SNP1 & 2

    Only way out of this UK nightmare
    You want Indy? Vote for it-both votes!

  34. ArtyHetty says:

    Of course it was never, never going to be otherwise.

    This is for those who think that UKok is a country, and for the ears of those South of the border who can now say, shut up you Jocks you got what you wanted even though you voted no! So no more demands, no more stupid talk of your seperatism, back in your box.

    The unionist troughers know this is a loads of cobblers and that they have succeeded in conning many in Scotland out of their livelihoods, at the same time continuing to asset strip Scotland.
    Job done.

    Not so of course, and we still have a huge job to ensure that the Scottish government are supported in their strategy to improve the lives of the people, against huge odds.

    We will burn the dirty, lying fingers in the pie in May, to a cinder.

    We need a bigger pie so all can have a fair share, not just a pie for the britnat, unionist well offs with their massive carbon footprints. No thanks, and no thanks to your lying, stinking so called Scotland bill.

    Britnats have been billing Scotland for too long, time to rip it up.

  35. proudscot says:

    “Influential voices” – a failed Prime Minister who is now a blustering irrelevance, and a Labour Party propaganda rag masquerading as a newspaper. Both recommended by a sneering little political lightweight who scraped home by a few hundred votes, and was put in charge of the largely redundant Scotland Office.

    Incidentally, where were you during the recent flooding disaster which hit your constituency, Mr.Mundell? You were even more conspicuous by your absence, or perhaps you were proudly opening another foodbank, caused largely by your Tory Government’s savage cuts?

  36. Brown said The Vow was `not` being delivered,

    “The Government [is] falling short on the delivery of the recommendations of the Smith Commission on Scottish Devolution and the case for action is enhanced”

  37. r baxter says:

    this rhetorical effluent is sheer intimidation for a civil reaction. the stench from wm is a long way beyond Scotland.

  38. ArtyHetty says:

    Re; David Mckenzie@11.56

    I think it’s called, taking the piss. The ultimate ridiculing of Scotland. UKok contempt for Scotland is alive and well.

  39. donnywho says:

    Sadly he is probably telling the truth… All the amendments were probably passed by the HOUSE OF LORDS unopposed as there is not one SNP LORD in the other place.

  40. Bob Mack says:

    No acceptance of the Scotland Bill. It is bloody useless and only firmly binds us to the UK, MORE SO THAN AT PRESENT.

    Mundell gave the plan away the other day when he mentioned the possibility that many people from England may move here as a result of more favourable benefits .

    They will presumably not be independence supporters.

  41. Macca73 says:

    Meanwhile just 6% of people in Scotland believed that the vow was delivered. That’s despite what anyone in the DR or Gordon Brown’s views!

  42. When do we begin to see Mundell and his friends in Labour begin to shout for the people in Scotland to be hit with higher taxes to compensate for the cuts from Westminster.

  43. Sinky says:

    Other than the limited Income Tax straight jacket the five main taxes that can restructure or grow our economy or make decent welfare provision remain firmly under the control of the UK Treasury.

    Why is this not mentioned on BBC or in MSM every time Scotland’s powers are commented upon?

  44. Macart says:

    I seem to recall that not a single amendment put forward by 56 of our 59 MPs was found to be acceptable.

    Now wouldn’t that be considered by ‘any reasonable person’ WM dictating the terms of the current settlement?

    Are we feeling the better togetherness yet?

  45. OT its being reported that Richard Baker has quit Holyrood weeks before Holyrood beaks up,his place is being taken by Cllr Lesley Brennan.

  46. Clootie says:

    …but it wasn’t written for us. The statement is to the wider world that the Scots are back in their box and very happy and content with the generous powers granted to us.
    Great Britain is once again one big happy family.

    …job done

  47. Dr Jim says:

    Do we think we need a rejection petition on the grounds of pishness level

    Half Gallon
    Cup full

    Questions all followed by “Of Pish”

  48. Christian Schmidt says:


    Could you add a new category ‘Scotland Bill 2015-16’ or so? I get confused by all the fulfilled / didn’t fulfil comments…


  49. Craig Wilson says:

    Interesting assertion from Mundell. By extension he seems to be saying that the 91% of Scots who don’t believe ‘The Vow’ was fulfilled are not “reasonable observers”. But remember guys, we’re the extremists.

  50. Smallaxe says:

    Through my letterbox this morning,Oliver Mundell’s new introduction edition of ‘In Touch’ a four page pamphlety thing.

    The SNP have been coasting for far too long on a misunderstanding of devolved politics and it is time to hold them to account.

    I am speaking to traditional Labour supporters and former Lib Dem’s who are angered by the SNP’s fixation on constitutional affairs.Instead,I believe people locally want to see the Scottish Government focussing on everyday issues which can bring real changes to peoples’ lives…He says.

    I say that I prefer my toilet paper sans shite so it will leave with the binman in the morning!

  51. Janet says:

    It says something about the election being on 7th May. Is he just being fanciful or has he got it wrong? I thought it was 5th May.

  52. Stuart,

    The internet being what it is, isn’t there at least a slight risk of compounding the issue by quoting him without contradiction? Just saying…

  53. galamcennalath says:

    There is only one set of “influencial voices” … the voters of Scotland.

    First May2016, then IndyRef2.

  54. Lesley-Anne says:

    There is only ONE thing that I can say in response to the great, the fabulous, the all knowing Viceroy of Scotland’s comments. 😉

  55. One_Scot says:

    Apparently David Mundell has also had a new book published today,‘How to Troll a Nation without Pissing your Pants Laughing’.

    Seriously, the man takes being a professional world class knob to a new level.

  56. schrodingers cat says:

    will the SG accept this crock?

    should it?

    a failure to deliver the vow…..indyref2?

  57. wee_monsieur says:

    “Influential voices from Gordon Brown to the Daily Record newspaper agreed.”

    Oh, how we laughed!

  58. Andrew McLean says:

    “Influential voices from Gordon Brown to the Daily Record newspaper agreed.”
    That one sentence clearly encapsulates the broad spread of agreement in Scotland to that Bill. Gordon Brown is the Political manifestation of the Daily Record and the Daily record is the literary scribe of Gordon Brown.

    But why the infinitesimally limited scope of agreement, why not quote that all parties in Scotland from the Left to the Right, from unionist to Nationalist agree? The obvious reason is he can’t, he is fully aware that this Bill is a sop disliked by all, except a handful of foreign politicians hoodwinking a country of millions.

    However to be fair to Gordon Brown at the end of last year, after the Bill was passed the first and second stages he said this “The (Westminster) Government [is] falling short on the delivery of the recommendations of the Smith Commission on Scottish Devolution and the case for action is enhanced if the government is unwilling to listen to alternative views,”. Given the alternative views represent those of the SNP members of parliament, and those views were ignored by the English mps, I will expect Gordon to roar and clunk his fist into this statement from his Tory adversary? Surely he won’t link arms with him a sing “Rule Britannia” , because not one this has fundamentally changed in this bill since he made that statement!

    And we have this limited scope used again, “Compared to the devolved parliaments of its type, it will be one of the most powerful in the world.” In other words compared to a barely devolved parliament in Scotland, Scotland compares favorably with Scotland?

    Does the majority of MPs from Scotland agree that this is world beating devolution, not the view of some old Tories from oxford or London or Cambridge, but Scottish MPs elected by Scots to represent our interests, what say they, that is far more important than the hopes of the only Tory MP in our entire country!

  59. The Vow and the Commission were mini=mal, useless and nothing much to start with. Rubbish!

  60. JLT says:

    Maybe we should ask Gordon and the Daily Record if they agree with our Janitor for the Sta …err …Secretary for the State of Scotland.

    Ask them if they vow of ‘Home Rule’ has been delivered. If they were to agree …ask them what ‘Home Rule’ really means …because this ‘deliverance’ by Mundell surely isn’t!

  61. One_Scot says:

    Really, how much longer can we suffer these clowns running our country.

  62. Dandy Dons 1903 says:

    These unionist numpties truly are taking the p1ss. What has been delivered? Answer=Zero!

  63. galamcennalath says:

    Now I get it … “influential voices” is code for liars!

  64. Les Wilson says:

    Well, the shortcomings and traps need to be got out there,backed up with respecable voices. We can and will do it also, but the SNP (who should have this done already and backed by experts)need to have all the details and the folly’s made plain for everyone to read and post it to every house and business in Scotland.

    We need to spread it everywhere we can, posters in prominent places ect. Hand out sheets, and more. People really need to clearly see the cheating by Westminster et al.
    Fluffy does not seem to have a grip on Scottish politics, Godzilla and the Record FFS.

  65. Petra says:

    Scotland finds itself living in a one Party State under the rule of the Tory Dictatorship / oppressor.

    37% of individuals in the UK voted for the Tories last May with 63% opting for other parties and when you take into account the fact that many people didn’t vote at all only 24% of those eligible to vote actually put a cross next to a Tory candidate on their ballot paper.

    In Scotland the Tories acquired around 14% of the vote highlighting that 86% of Scots have no time for this party at all …. detest them in fact.

    So on top of being controlled by the Tories we now find ourselves in the position of having, two loathsome men, the only Tory MP in Scotland ruling the roost alongside his wee pal Murray the only Labour MP left standing in Westminster …… and they BOTH have the audacity to say that ”Scotland will be the most powerfully devolved Nation in the World”. It just beggars belief!

    This out and out lie, along with many others that they spout, for example that Smith has been fulfilled, is promulgated by the corrupt unionist media, such as the Daily Record; in part to cover their backs for initiating the greatest lie of all … the VOW.

    United they stand in utilising multifarious propaganda techniques to achieve their aims by attempting to dupe the Scots and in this case it is known as the ‘BIG LIE’ ….. ‘The repeated articulation of a complex of events that justify subsequent action. The descriptions of these events have elements of truth, and the “big lie” generalizations merge and eventually supplant the public’s accurate perception of the underlying events.’

    It’s fitting at this time to remind everyone of one of the most notorious propagandists, Joseph Goebbles, who said that ….

    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and / or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the TRUTH is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the TRUTH is the greatest enemy of the State.”

    So thank God for having the ability to access the Internet in particular sites like this. Thank God for, in the main, the legions of young Scots who are now search, search, searching for the TRUTH.

    Time is running out for people like Foote, Clegg, Chrichton, Baillie, Murray and Mundell …. to name but a few of the BIG LIARS.

  66. call me dave says:

    @Dr Jim

    At least a ‘hogs head’ full, which is a lot of pish, if I remember the back page of my Fife Cooncil blue book table from the primary.

  67. Sharney Dubs says:

    You can bullshit some of the people all of the time, you can even bullshit all of the people some of the time, but…
    You can actually bullshit all of the people all of the time if you don’t give a flying f*^k what they think.
    Another cup of tea vicker?
    Nice one Rev.
    The dubs.

  68. Hamish100 says:

    Scots Law decided by English votes

    What’s Mundell doing. I am sure he must be outraged or should that be Baker ?

    2 numpties running Scotland from Westminster?

    Of course not they couldn’t run a bath. They are merely wee pawns doing what their masters in London tell them.

  69. dakk says:

    ‘the Bill delivers the Smith Agreement in full’

    Who gives a shit?

    If the powers are not what Scotland requires in order to progress and develop as the nation it’s people aspire to,then the Smith Agreement is of little or no consequence.

    That being the case,more than half of Scotland’s people will treat Gordon Brown’s, the Daily Record’s and Fuzzy heid Mundell’s treachery with the contempt it deserves.

    Hence,the political future for all Scottish unionist politicians is still a bleak one.

    Mundell and Brown are too old for it to matter,they’ve successfully screwed Scotland for their own gain,and don’t need to care.

    Future would be Scottish unionist politicians will not have it anywhere near so easy.

    A dying breed.

    Nice thought 🙂

  70. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The internet being what it is, isn’t there at least a slight risk of compounding the issue by quoting him without contradiction?”

    Contradicting what?

  71. Proud Cybernat says:


    We will tell YOU when we have all the powers WE want. WE are the judges of that, NOT YOU. WE are the people and YOU work for US. Remember that. YOU have NOT delivered what WE demand. YOU have broken the promises and Vows YOU made to US.

    Only one thing for it now.

    SE2016 s x SNP

  72. nodrog says:

    The only influential voices that matter are the voices of the Scottish People and based on the latest poll only 9% of them think that the Smith Commission proposals will be delivered in full.

    What is reprehensible is that a man who was elected by the skin of his teeth can have so much power over Scottish affairs whilst the 56 can only roar from the sidelines.

  73. Jimbo says:

    Arsehole, Mundell – How could the bill have been passed in full if it has been amended?

  74. Free Scotland says:

    @nodrog says:

    What is reprehensible is that a man who was elected by the skin of his teeth can have so much power over Scottish affairs whilst the 56 can only roar from the sidelines.

    And that the same buffoon can go on to claim that the bill “passed unopposed.”

  75. Capella says:

    Which NEW powers have been devolved? Scotland already had tax varying powers, so that’s not new. We obviously could compensate for the bedroom tax so that’s not new.

    Is it just APD? Is that going to be the NEW power in the most devolved history of devolvement ever?
    Or varying the frequency of welfare payments!
    Or perhaps varying or abolishing winter fuel payments? Sure start grants?

    “The biggest transfer of powers in the history of devolution in the UK.”

    Is that really it?

  76. Skooshcase says:

    “Influential voices from Gordon Brown to the Daily Record newspaper agreed.”

    “Influential”…? Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! “Gordon Brown…” Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! “the Daily Record newspaper [sic]”… Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

    Laugh Out fucking Loud! Top, top, top, top, top trolling there by Fluffy baws, Scotland’s ‘man of the people’.

  77. Lesley-Anne says:

    Mundell is the earsehole of the known universe! 🙂

    During the recent flooding across Scotland who knows where our Viceroy of Scotland was? 😉

    I only ask cause the individual concerned was no where to be seen where he should have been! 🙂

    Now I can also add that we have a fight with the Post Office to save our village post office. They are making cuts and changes that usually involve closing the post office and transferring it to the local Spar or similar kind of shop. The locals in the village are dead against this and we have a meeting with the post office and local politicians on 18th January. Well I say local politicians, it appears most will be turning up except one! 😀

    I’ll leave folks on here to guess which particular *cough* politician is NOT attending but will be sending a *ahem* representative in his place. 😀

  78. Petra says:

    @ Bob Mack says at 12:33 pm ……………. ”Mundell gave the plan away the other day when he mentioned the possibility that many people from England may move here as a result of more favourable benefits. They will presumably not be independence supporters.”

    And I’m sure that IS part of their plan. Create more and more unemployment, force us to put up taxes (higher rate payers move south or use an English address) and benefit claimants and the homeless head north putting even more stress on us economically ….. add that to all the freebies the elderly rUK relocators already receive.

  79. HandandShrimp says:

    Red Tory paper backing the Muddle

    ….sounds about right.

  80. nodrog says:

    Not so far OT. Got a card through the door today from the Tank Commander. Apologies if I am behind the times – but it appears the Scottish Conservatives have started a petition to say NO to a second referendum. If it reaches target I expect that will mean it can be debated in the House of Commons. Is this perhaps a back door attempt to have it debated and defeated in the HofC. I say this because I doubt that the petition will be limited to Scotland only.
    A petition to say YES to an Indyref2 would be counter productive unless it was a SG debate and a Scotland only. Not sure how we can counter this? Any thoughts?

  81. Not Convinced says:

    Petra says:
    … and they BOTH have the audacity to say that ”Scotland will be the most powerfully devolved Nation in the World”.

    The key word (IMHO) in their claim is *devolved*. If one interprets that as “sub-national government”, then clearly they would be lying their asses off as in no way does the powers Scotland will now have compare to the likes of the States of the USA, the Länder of Germany or the Cantons of Switzerland! However none of those are devolved administrations (i.e. a sub-national parliament created by central government which retains the ability to legislate in devolved areas), they existed *before* the central government to which they are now subordinated.

    So that leaves us comparing with other devolved administrations … Scotland comes out looking quite powerful when compared to Northern Ireland or, especially, Wales but perhaps less so when compared to the territories (not the states) of either Australia or Canada and definitely not more powerful than District of Columbia I would say.

  82. @nodrog

    They can discus all they like in Westminster about a indyref2 if the petition is reached. It is the Scottish people and then the SG that will decide.

  83. heedtracker says:

    So that leaves us comparing with other devolved administrations …

    It leaves us comparing The Vow, devo-max that Scotland was told we’d get if we voted NO. specifically excluded the devo-max third option ref question now years ago but at the last minute, they put it back on the ballot, when they thought they were going to lose.

    Sure its an historic UKOK shyste on the voters of Scotland but


  84. Greg Drysdale says:

    Both kindsa bollocks; cuntry AND wastern!

  85. caledonia says:

    daily record say home rule is on track

    we need a mass protest against this paper like the sun in liverpool

  86. caledonia says:

    please ignore last post this one is archived

  87. Saor Alba says:

    This puts nothing beyond argument to reasonable observers at all. How dare this clown define such things to us! Mundell has NOT GOT A CLUE about what constitutes a reasonable argument, or what constitutes a reasonable observer. Just because he says it – he thinks it is true. If he thinks G Brown or the Daily Liar are influential then he is insane. Everything is tied into his own limited thought processes and his world is as far from the real world as it is possible to get.
    He, like Brown and the Daily Liar has no credibility when it comes to argument. Take that from one who has a degree in Logic and General Philosophy as well as in Molecular Biology. I know very well, as a scientist and logician, what constitutes a clear argument and nothing that this blundering fool has ever said about Scotland’s self-determination comes close to fulfilling the requirements of a clear, useful and purposeful argument. He simply makes statements with no evidential background and is a total stranger to reality and truth.
    He is utterly pompous and believes that he is untouchable because of the Tory majority. His lack of concern for Scotland and its people s obvious and it defies belief that he was ever elected at all. His majority is very slim now and will get even slimmer soon.

  88. Petra says:

    @ notconvinced at 5:42 ……. ” However none of those are devolved administrations (i.e. a sub-national parliament created by central government which retains the ability to legislate in devolved areas), they existed *before* the central government to which they are now subordinated.”

    Notconvinced thanks for replying to my post. I would like to ask how you think we stand now when you consider that we were once an Independent Nation? It could be said that we *existed before* the Central Government, Westminster, *subordinated* us. Therefore should our level of devolution be compared with that of the US States, the German Lander and / or the Swiss Cantons?

    @ notrog at 4:52 …….

    Notrog the following is from Joan McAlpine. May help to answer your question.

    ‘JOAN MCALPINE INDYREF2’ …. ”My view on a second independence referendum is very firm. I don’t want one to take place… until we are sure of Yes winning it.

    What should be in no doubt is our right to decide. That’s why David Cameron made a huge political error this week when he said he would not allow one to take place. He said the vote had to be “legitimate”.

    What he means is his government would consider a referendum called and organised by the Scottish Parliament to be illegitimate. He would refuse to recognise its legality.

    He insists that only the Westminster parliament dominated by English MPs, many of them Tory, can legally “allow” Scotland a vote on her own future. His high-handed dismissal exposes the unfairness at the heart of the British state.

    He talks about English votes for English laws. But when it comes to an issue like the future government of Scotland, English MPs will use the superior numbers at Westminster to deny us the right just to have a referendum.

    The last referendum went ahead because Cameron reached an agreement with Alex Salmond. The Tory PM never expected the vote to be so close. A majority of people under the age of 55 voted Yes.

    Cameron’s comments to journalists this week are clearly designed to frighten the Scottish Parliament and put it in its place. But Cameron has just served to further alienate Scots – including no voters.

    The SNP should go into next year’s Scottish election with a manifesto clause underlining the moral right of the Scottish Parliament to hold a referendum at a time of its choosing.

    To paraphrase the great Irish parliamentarian of the 19th century, Charles Stewart Parnell, no man has the right to fix the boundary of a nation .. to say “Thus far shalt thou go and no further”.

    And if you prefer hard legal facts to poetry, the UN have several declarations we can turn to.

    The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) both say: “All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”

    David Cameron has acknowledged Scotland as a nation – so he can hardly turn round and deny us the right to self-determination as defined by the UN.

    In terms of the practicalities, they are all in place. The Scottish Parliament has the power to administer elections and gained plenty of experience of doing so with the first independence referendum.

    We could invite UN and EU observers to demonstrate our commitment to fairness.

    David Cameron can declare it illegal if he wants – but would he dare?

    A manifesto commitment would mean any future SNP government have a mandate from the people that recognised Holyrood’s right to call a vote. That doesn’t mean they should or would. The time must be right.

    Alex Salmond has suggested that time could come sooner than anyone thought. As he observed, the unionist parties promised Scotland “devo max” but have given us “austerity max” instead.

    But it’s a matter for the people. Yes supporters, however disappointed they might feel at last year’s vote, shouldn’t push for indyref2 simply on the basis of wishful thinking.”

  89. chris kilby says:

    Define “influential.”

    (“Vested interests,” mair like…)

  90. Ken500 says:

    What? Is this April 1st. Wait until 6 May 2016. The X on the spot will show them where to shove their Bill and it’s not LOL. Liars Out Liars. Cameron will be gone in four years. Support for indy Ref/Twa will have increased.

  91. Robert Peffers says:

    @Hamish McTavish says: 11 January, 2016 at 11:39 am:

    ” … I’m normally quite level headed but, FFS, a dinosaur and a gutter press rag as endorsements. What an utter arse.”

    The guy has been arse since birth – why would becoming ly remaining Tory MP in Scotland change that simple fact?

  92. orri says:

    By introducing the fiction of the “Smith Agreement” he avoids any direct lie about this being in any way near the findings of the Smith Commission. It matters not a jot that the SNP were represented in that.

    The fact that over a 100 amendments were made by the Government whilst the SNP were present is either some desperate attempt to imply the SNP agreed to them or deliberate trolling.

    Again the emphasis at all points on use of the word agreement and the SNP being some how involved is an attempt to lend an air or legitimacy to this. I’d hesitate to say it but it’s a bit like claiming French citizens being forced to watch reprisal executions by the Nazi’s were complicit in them.

  93. Jack Murphy says:

    caledonia on 11th January at 7:42pm said:-
    “please ignore last post this one is archived

    You should have warned us caledonia of The Record’s headline staring us in the face. I spilt ALL my tea at work!!!!! More money down the drain. 🙁

    ‘Scotland’s Champion’ roars:-
    “The Vow on time and on track: Prime Minister delivers next step to Home Rule three days early” [!!!!]

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top