The flexibility of figures
It’s a well-known fact, of course, that 87% of all statistics are made up. But as this site regularly observes, if you’re the Scottish opposition and media there’s no need to invent fake ones when you can twist the real ones to present an image completely at odds with the reality.
The Sunday Times today has some fine examples of the craft of massaging figures for the purposes of deception. It carries two separate scare stories on the NHS, both of them using figures which aren’t based on any sort of news, but on opposition spin on existing stats. One comes from the Tories, under a dramatic headline:
The banner is pulling a classic trick – the £685m figure is actually the total sum spent in a decade, not the single year that most people would assume (since there’s no good reason to measure spending in decades, so headlines usually don’t do it). But remarkably it’s just about the most honest thing in the paper’s health coverage today.
The article goes on to note:
“The private healthcare bill for Scottish taxpayers hit £78.5m in 2015-16, new figures show. That compares with £61m when the nationalists came to power.”
Which is an interesting way to present the comparison, because £61m in 2007 money adjusted for inflation is actually, um, £78m.
The other attack is based on a Labour press release.
This is another classic of spin. NHS Scotland has had the best A&E waiting-time stats of anywhere in the UK every month for almost two years now, so it’s difficult to put a negative slant on figures when they show over 93% of patients being treated within the target time, especially when the equivalent numbers in England and Wales are significantly worse (at 84% and 78% respectively).
But if you can’t make the percentages sound bad, then simply saying “91,788 people” makes it sound like a lot by presenting it without any context about the 1.7 million or so who WERE seen promptly. And it helps if you also leave out the context of the previous year, because Labour forgot to mention that they pulled the exact same trick almost word-for-word (this time in the Daily Record) 12 months ago:
Compared to the figures for 2015, the number of patients having to wait longer than the target times for treatment FELL in every category: by 420 (0.5%) for those waiting more than four hours, by 1099 (13%) for those waiting more than eight hours, and by 263 (20%) for those waiting more than 12 hours.
Cutting the numbers of patients suffering extended delays by 13% and 20% is pretty impressive progress in a single year, an impartial observer might think, and having 19 out of every 20 people treated within the shortest target isn’t too shabby either for a service under as much pressure as the NHS.
But on reading today’s Sunday Times you’d come away with the impression that healthcare in Scotland is collapsing, an idea reinforced by a column of near-hysterical doom-and-gloomery from Gillian Bowditch in the same edition.
(Exactly THREE women were diverted from the QEUH maternity unit, and they were sent to hospitals elsewhere in Glasgow, not left to give birth in the gutter.)
None of the pieces contain anything that’s technically untrue. But by juggling the stats with spin, selectivity and omission of context they tell a story that’s as good as a lie.
I’ll never weary saying it, Stu – you are the BEST.
link to parliamentlive.tv
All they are doing is pissing off the hard working Scottish NHS staff with their constant downing of their profession
I heard the 90,000 thing on Radio Scotland this morning. Second item of news, no context or analysis just a free advert for the Labour Party allowed to stand as a fact.
The most hilarious thing I have heard this week was that the BBC are setting up a fake news task force. I can only assume so that they can do more of it and faster to boot.
Disraeli was not wrong.
The English National NHS is wonderful.
Surely by now there are few left in Scotland who do not realise that the media is twisting the facts in order to control their thoughts and opinions.
Sounds daft eh! Control their thoughts? That though is exactly what they attempt to do, they lie, they spin and deceive all under instruction from their real masters. That will be the Tories and the billionaire owners of the media.
Don’t pay for their lies, don’t buy a newspaper and cancel your TV tax. Don’t allow yourself to be duped.
Don’t allow yourself to be manipulated. SAY NO MORE!
An article by John Boothman featured above. Wasn’t there someone at BBC Shortbread of same/similar name?
Not to mention that healthcare costs have ass always risen faster than general inflation. But you cant expect the London Times to report that mere detail
Not to mention that healthcare costs have as always risen faster than general inflation. But you can’t expect the London Times to report that mere detail
Yes, but as we all know, the headline is the story and we need to counter it. We need to expose the stories behind the Tories!
Perhaps a way forward for WOS and the fight for independence could be the setting up of a quarterly WOS Newsletter? What say folk?
BBC news has been reporting NHS meltdown all over the UK all morning
I think it’s the embarrasment of Scotlands NHS coping OK and in some instances incredibly well given Tory cuts
They can’t differentiate because the SNPs organisational skills would look good and even at the expense of patients they will never admit they could learn something from us stupid Scots and our terrible horrible SNP government
Who are Baad!
The problem with this kind of story, as Stu says, is not that it is fake but that it is rubbish – written to make me less informed about the world than I would be if I’d just ignored it. If I’m considering watching a film then I might choose to look at its score on imdb – the score is gameable but I know I am going to think twice before wasting my evening on a “5”. Its a shame we don’t have an similar mechanism for newspaper articles.
I would be interesting to see the polling results for the SNHS to see if a majority support independence and whether they also think they are being fairly treated by the press and TV.
Strange that the MSM think they can slag of the largest employer in Scotland and their dedicated and hard working staff and not have an effect on their sales and their credibility.
Most folk in Scotland know from their own experience that there is no crisis in the SNHS and are releasing that it is all politically motivated nonsense.
All bodes well for Indyref2.
We’re just going to have to accept that there will always be a concerted cooperative attack on anything and everything SNP or Scottish Independence by the Yoon political establishment and the Yoon controlled sympathetic MSM in the UK.
What needs to happen is to keep linking the Yoon political establishment with their controlled and sympathetic MSM at every chance and opportunity.
Keep hammering home the message that the UK MSM almost in its entirety cannot be trusted to publish real news without taint bias spin lies deceits and outright propaganda regarding Scottish Independence.
The online sites such as WOS Newsnet Bella etc are doing an excellent job on this topic yet much more needs to be done.
Blanket pamphlet campaigns around housing estates to the elderly who don’t go online and don’t get the advantages of alternate media.
The elderly in Scotland are the key to our Independence and it is they who are influenced the most by the BBC and the printed press.
We have already won the battle online the war has to be won on the doorstep.
I saw the maternity story when it headlined on Reporting Scotland and put it down to Scottish NHS just as bad as English NHS. Pa-the-tic!
If they want to talk long term figures, how about –
‘£30 billion: The cost of Labour’s toxic PFI legacy to Scotland.’ – link to heraldscotland.com
Dr Jim wrote:
“They can’t differentiate because the SNPs organisational skills would look good and even at the expense of patients they will never admit they could learn something from us stupid Scots and our terrible horrible SNP government.”
True, but would a very simple and effective step in the correct direction not be for the SNP administration simply to change the name of our health service to something along the lines of SHS (Scottish Health Service) or HSS (Health Service Scotland). I know this move alone would not stop the BUM from trying to distort reality but it would make attempts a helluva lot harder.
@Mike
Very good post Mike, it’s obvious that we can only win Indy2 “on the doorsteps”. We need to work together as a group and get the message out. We all have elderly relatives and friends, work on them, give it both barrels we can’t afford to be shy.
Why not rename/re-brand ours The SGHS?
(The Scottish Government Health Service)
[…] Wings Over Scotland The flexibility of figures It’s a well-known fact, of course, that 87% of all statistics are made up. But as […]
If memory serves there are not very many people who buy the Tory Times in Scotland.
That said any time they open their gob it is almost always to attack the SNP in Scotland who have done a fantastic job, in my view, over the period they have been in power. We all know neither the Blue Tories nor the Red Tories have had anything good ever to say about Scottish institutions like our N.H.S. The other lot just seem to harp on about Police Scotland being short of cash. Well perhaps if they paid their outstanding bill of £800,000 things might change there.
I think people in Scotland though are close to the tipping point now. With nothing but vile bile from the media about Scottish services I think folks are close to just saying feck it let’s just do this independence thing and get shot of those lying b******s darn surf.
Of course what might just push folks even further to YES next time round is news that die Fuhrerin May is going to say she’s happy to go for a HARD Brexit in a speech on Tuesday … allegedly. The fact this news has already been slipped out I think folks might want to keep one eye on the currency exchanges over the next couple of days. 😀
To any newbies lurking:
Try avoiding clicking on the direct link in the comment above by Ian – 15 January, 2017 at 1:45 pm – because clicking on direct links to BUM rags helps to bring in advertising revenue which in turn finances the utter crap they produce for shitting all over us and Scotland’s future well-being.
The media must protect the union and therefore protect unionist parties.
Truth without context is not journalism it is spin.
The health service comparison highlights why London fears an Independent Scotland. People do not compare their services to other nations normally. However they would notice change in a nation once part of their “great empire”. Spin only works when you have total control of the media, financial reports, policies etc
A) They need to continue drawing wealth from our nation.
B) They must prevent a reference point regarding a better society on their doorstep
C) They must avoid being caught out in the lie that Scotland was too poor, too small and too stupid to form a nation. If they are caught on that lie then the Brit Nats may question the Empire status they currently hold.
Which nation do I think would put the welfare of it’s citizens ahead of WMD / Aircraft Carriers / Astute Class nuclear submarines / A Trident replacement ……… Only Scotland
What nation would move away from division in society, away from a growing gap between the Rich and the Poor….Only Scotland
So remember that the spin implying “…Scotland health service is just as bad” it is just the same old, same old unionist grip being exerted by London and their “Uncle Tams” up here.
It’s fine if you use an ad-blocker – really p*sses them off.
Asking on this thread too. Any chance someone can post the link to the gathering yesterday again, the link someone put up earlier has awful sound, broken up all the way through Elaine talking and when moving along same thing is happening throughout…I’ll have a search masel’ but just in case anyone has one to hand that would be grand. ?
The business about private health care costs fails to consider the nature of those costs. I would suggest there’s a world of difference between NHS Scotland commissioning services privately where it is not practical to maintain an NHS service in Scotland than handing over NHS assets wholesale to the likes of Richard Branson.
I am due to undergo specialised, non-urgent, surgery in the near future. The number of surgeons working in the particular specialism is very limited and it would not really be possible for NHS Scotland to maintain this provision. Consequently they contract the work out.
They could contract to the NHS in England but instead the contract is with the private sector. The surgeon is the same chap in both cases. His waiting list for NHS patients from England is currently more than three times that for his private patients. By contracting with the private provider NHS Scotland is ensuring a better provision for its patients.
“None of the pieces contain anything that’s technically untrue.”
Well, the maternity unit in Glasgow is an older building on the same site as the QEUH, rather than part of the “new NHS flagship” – quibbling I know, but something the media often say when talking about older units on that site.
Old Saying.
A truth that’s told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent.
I am hoping that those working in our great Scottish NHS , know that we appreciate them . Know that we don’t believe anything the BBBC broadcasts or newspapers print and know that the SNP will do their best while in government to protect them.
I certainly appreciate their efforts so a big thank you to them from me!
If i was in charge of the propaganda output designed to protect the Union i would be bloody shittn myself ,with all the effort and every single media outlet parroting the same pish on a daily basis this is the best they can do ,despite all their work the best they can hope for is to try and slow down the approaching Independence tsunami , yesterdays event supporting the ” YES ” movement must have given them a insight of things to come , a sold out venue and online interest approaching pre referendum figures and we haven’t really started yet once it starts in earnest these things have a habit of accelerating and will take on a life of their own it just takes a little spark and they bloody well know this .
More and more people realise the tosh these presstitutes write, with, consequently, less and less impact.
On independence, the names of these presstitutes will live evermore in infamy, in the same way as the signatories to the act of union are regarded.
No Truth and Reconciliation commission for these people, as far as I’m concerned.
Handandshrimp @1.16pm, re Fake News task force, I read something a lot more sinister into this move, I believe Labour are planning something similar – the emphasis appears to be on how much fake news you get on social media i.e. how unreliable internet sources are for getting the ‘truth’.
In other words, it will still be fine for the MSM to spout nonsense, and for the BBC to report any nonsense spouted by other media and politicians, and to not investigate whether it is rubbish or not, but it will give them the opportunity to slate anything presented on social media – it is propaganda telling people ‘you can only trust us! Don’t believe anything else you hear!’. That’s how I read it anyway.
Stu posed a question earlier on twitter that made my head bleed..
Imagine that one seat had gone the other way in 2007 and Labour had formed another Scottish Executive
We could go on for a while but suffice to say the SNHS would be ground to dust by now.. and Ian Gray as FM!! (passes oot)
I’m off creating a bit of mischief later so putting these up early.
WOS archive links now over on O/T.
re 1.45pm comment and link.
It’s from the Herald on Sunday, who supported a Yes vote. More importantly it provides useful information that needs to be made as widely known as possible.
Even if it was from a MSM rag that actually reported on something objectively, maybe using an ad blocker would prevent any commercial revenue being created. I don’t know if it would. Maybe someone can clarify for sure.
Stoker @1:53
Here’s the reply I got when suggesting a petition in October 2015.
“Dear Mr Parker,
Thank you for your proposed petition and I am sorry for the delay responding to you. I am a clerk to the Public Petitions Committee (PPC) and one of my roles is to assist petitioners to present their petitions and advise on the guidance and rules for petitioning Parliament.
Two documents that you may wish to read are the guidance for petitioners and the PPC’s determination of the proper form of petitions.
In the guidance, petitioners are asked to have attempted to resolve the issue they raise before raising a petition. This could be by contacting one of your MSPs or writing directly to the Scottish Government. You are very welcome to raise a petition on this issue, but please try to progress your idea through other relevant means first.
In terms of your petition, NHS Scotland is a broad term which covers all of the NHS in Scotland. However, in my experience most things (vans, hospitals, headed paper etc.) are branded with the regional boards’ logo (e.g. NHS Lanarkshire) or a national Special Health Board’s logo (e.g. Scottish Ambulance Service). Are you suggesting that all of the regional boards’ logos and names should be changed too? A good briefing on the structure of the NHS in Scotland can be found here: link to scottish.parliament.uk.
Secondly, it would be helpful if you could develop your argument a little more. As I understand it you argue that there is a confusion in the public’s mind about what areas of policy are devolved and that this could be resolved or mitigated if the NHS in Scotland had a distinctively different name. Do you think that the similarity of the name is the source of the confusion? Do you think that the public has a better idea of devolved responsibilities when organisations operating in similar ways north and south of the border have distinct names (e.g. Highways Agency/Transport Scotland; Environment Agency/Scottish Environment Protection Agency; Crown Prosecution Service/Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service)? Answering these sorts of questions will strengthen your arguments and improve your petition.
I will return the petition to you on the online system. This will allow you update the petition if you wish once you have taken more actions to progress your proposal and also to develop your arguments.
I would be more than happy to discuss.
Many thanks,”
“
@ K1 – link to IndependenceLive website. sidebar has video sections.
link to livestream.com
My good lady is involved daily in an initiative to measure the morale and engagement levels with SNHS staff all across Scotland. I can tell you that engagement levels are among the highest in any sphere of top class business. This in spite of a heavy workload.
Any company in the world would be glad of the commitment shown by our staff in the face of adversity and financial challenges. I salute them all.
Capella, well done that wummin!
The more crazy the britnat claims the more desperate they will appear to the majority of people in Scotland. I look forward to even crazier britnat claims.
Contrary
Yes, my gut reaction was that they were saying “how very dare you – misinformation is our preserve…feck off!”
Labour have over the last few years excelled in bare faced lies but that I think is more wild desperation than an actual plan.
Ian,
The link you supplied does not clarify the article is from the HoS. Also, see what Gregory Beekman says at 2:12 pm, re: adblocker. Regardless, i’d still urge others to avoid clicking direct links. Another reason for archiving links is to prevent any changes being made, at a later time, to any of the articles wording.
😉
________
gerry parker (2:44pm)
Thanks for that, Gerry! I’m just off on a mission 😉 but i’d like to carry this discussion on further because, obviously like you, i would really like to see this small but significant change made. I’ll give you a shout at some point, when i don’t know. Thanks again!
The Murdoch article’s target was more the NHS per as than the SNP government. The fact Scotland’s NHS is less privatised than England & Wales is a threat to the right-wing agenda. In other words the Scottish Government us collateral damage here – Nicola’s endorsement of The Sun notwithstanding.
The Murdoch article’s target was more the NHS per as than the SNP government. The fact Scotland’s NHS is less privatised than England & Wales is a threat to the right-wing agenda. In other words the Scottish Government us collateral damage here – Nicola’s endorsement of The Sun notwithstanding. Not sure how her column in the Record will play in furure, mind you.
Stoker.
You’re welcome.
I couldn’t progress it at the time due to a health problem.
Game now though.
Maybe first step to e mail the list MSP’s with the suggestion – just to rattle their cages?
@gerry parker
There should be no need for a petition and it’s a shame the SG haven’t realised this yet. There can be no doubt that a great many people do not understand that the NHS in Scotland is a totally separate body from the NHS in England.
There is also no doubt now too that the SNHS is better run than any other part of the UK, not enough people know this, even some who are SNHS staff.
I applaud your attempt to get a petition up and running on this subject, maybe we should all write to our MSP’s and get this going?
In fact, I think I will do that now.
Looking at three recent SNP top stories on Google.
Putin helped the SNP in the Referendum.
Te Daily Record doesn’t like the SNP Budget.
Scottish Labour ‘plans’ something not the SNP.
The Sunday Times and the Daily Record on the same level – the gutter.
Hi Stoker.
You typed at 3.07pm,
“Another reason for archiving links is to prevent any changes being made, at a later time, to any of the articles wording.”
That only works if, where somebody else is going to archive the article at ‘archive.is’, when they get the notification that the article has been already archived, they do not select to archive the version that they are seeing. If they do, the older version will be overwritten.
This is unlike the Internet Archive, which retains ‘snapshots’ of web pages, so you can see if there have been changes. I’ve just added it to the Internet Archive.
link to web.archive.org
Unfortunately, the paywall kicked in so there is only the first part of the article. However, unlike ‘archive.is’, all the comments at the time of archiving can be read.
As far as I’m aware, once a page is at the Internet Archive, their bots go out periodically to capture newer snapshots, which are added to the ‘library’ of archived pages.
SNHS staff are doing a great jobs.
So why aren’t their unions up in arms and taking the media to task about the way their members’ skill and dedication is being used for cheap propaganda?
The membership should be giving their union bosses a hard kick up the erse!
Unfortunately there are many, especially amongst the older folks, who are still believing this drivel.
I work with elderly people, and on a daily basis, have to hear how bad the Scottish Government is, and how the SNP are ruining our Country, from a substantial majority of them. I find it pretty depressing, and , because of my employment cannot say much about it.
the pnr
Fully agree there should be no need, the SG should be doing it.
However, it would not be without cost, and you know what the opposition would be saying about the re branding costs.
We need some low cost suggestions on how this could be done.
re branding at least would force the opposition to refer to the entity it was talking about, rather than just say the NHS is in crisis and have people think it was all the NHS’s
I’d just love to hear Kez and Rooth having to refer to The Scottish Health Service.
May also need it raised in SNP branches, a 2 pronged attack?
My question to the hard working and dedicated members of the SNHS at all levels is this:
Why are you allowing your tireless service to the communities of Scotland be misreported by the BBC and MSM to score political points?
Why do you let them lie about how good you are doing despite dealing with rising demand from an ageing population in these times of enforced austerity??
Most of these SNHS staff have no option but to join their respective Unions Doctors (BMA), Nurses (RCN) and Midwives (RCM) for insurance (limited liability) cover in the case of litigation.
I’d ask them all, the Doctors, Nurses, Midwives, Porters etc. etc. this:
“WHAT IS YOUR UNIONS POSITION ON THE MISREPRESENTATION OF YOUR PROFESSIONAL COMPETENCE FOR POLITICAL POINTS SCORING & WHAT DO THEY INTEND TO DO ABOUT IT?”
I suspect it is to raise easy contributions for hee-haw support and a foot on the ladder in the Union or Labour Party hierarchy.
Heartwarming to see Gillian Bowditch pick up Eleanor Bradford’s baton on misery and run with it. Maybe we can expect to see her gracing the airwaves soon.
jockanese wind talker.
If the Unions who represented the workers in NHS Scotland could be brought on board that would make it a 3 pronged attack.
I see The National’s website has new articles today – Sunday.
Last week the new regime at PQ under Donalda Wotsername announced the commencement of their new political program to be called ‘Timeline’ to be broadcast at 7.30pm on Thursdays on BBC2 9 (Against 2 Soap Operas and Ch4 News)with Glenn Campbell and Shireen Nanjani at the helm.
This half hour offering (we don’t know if it will run every week or just when Holyrood/WM are sitting) is what we are going to be getting to replace the cancelled 4 nights a week 30 minutes of the dud Scotland 20xx and the weekly 1 hour Big Debate on Radio Scotland.
What an insult – my opinion of the minimum that is required to inform the public adequately is as follows tempered by the necessity (some hope) that BBC Scotland will abandon its biased non-stop deluge of SNPbad excreta:-
a) A weekly Scottish version of QT broadscast at a reasonable time with a balanced panel and audience and chaired by a fair and unbiased individual.
b) Although FMQs has been lengthened with an additional few minutes of comment instead of rushing off to the Brillo prog. just how many people are around to watch it in the middle of a working day. It should therefore be repeated in the evening followed by a properly balanced panel- not just the usual unionist suspects.
c) Every month when WM is sitting WM’s Scottish Questions is broadcast on BBC in the afternoon with a repeat late at night on BBC2 having taken place immediately preceding that day’s PMQs. As for FMQs it should be repeated , not in the middle of the night, but at a reasonable time with a properly balanced panel to discuss it.
d) Sunday Politics should be extended to add cover of the previous week’s proceedings at both WM (as they apply to Scotland)and Holyrood again with a properly balanced panel of politicians and journalists.
That leaves us with our biased old pals GMS and the execrable Call KayE – about which something must be done – but it won’t happen.
While I think that the above is a minimum requirement I am not optimistic of all or any of it happening without a clean sweep at PQ and a cutting of the chains that connect it to our colonial masters in London.
Comments and criticism of the above are welcome.
Incidentally has Brillo got himself a new streamlined syrup?
link to caltonjock.com
Slighty O/T
I’ve just responded on the previous link to a suggestion made by Stoker that we try and produce some kind of ‘fact card’ to counteract these lies/myths and mistruths being spouted.
I think it would be great if we had a set of ‘fact cards’/ information sheets on each indy stall for people to take away, read and circulate at nearby pubs/cafes/ Dr’s surgeries.
How about a set of WBB ‘beermat-factcards’ with condensed versions of e.g. the above article.. statistics only ( Rev permitting) possibly with the Wings logo and website details on the reverse.
Or laminated, pocket-sized, fact-checkers to dispel the lies e.g. about the Queensferry Crossing; the SNHS A&E figures; the cost of PFI caused by Slab decisions; cuts to welfare being brought about by WM Tories;
People need the truth and we have to create trusted ways of getting around the BBC and the newspapers. Trump is doing it on Twitter; sadly Nicola’s tweets are rarely reported.
She can take care of the Daily Record and i think that will bear fruit.
I was musing on the startling statistic from yesterday among my age group, over-55 year old women, fewer than 25% support an Independent Scotland.
I was SHOCKED by that and been thinking about it since.
Is it as simple as the fact that many women over 55 are worried about their own future and how they will cope/ who will look after them if/when/ now that their partner will/has died.
I’m divorced, have lived alone and supported myself for many years. I had a good job, have a work pension and feel strong enough to look after myself just now. I’m not scared of the future.. just now BUT
How would I feel if I had been in a partnership with a caring, competent person who did everything, took care of bills etc and was now left alone to cope in old age/poor health, on low income. Who will I turn to in time of worry, who will support me, look after me. Maybe i could look after myself, but I’m not sure – it would be so much more reassuring to be back in my old familiar set up where everything worked and I felt safe.
Is that partly how these women feel about Scotland leaving the umbrella of the Union? Do they feel we would be too vulnerable on our own? Does it increase their feeling of vulnerability?
Is it economics or Is it just, as in my older sister’s case, that being a full time wife and mum, trying to hold down a job, cope with the comings and goings of grown-up kids, failing health and energy levels she has NO time or interest in politics and what’s happening in the world – she needs to switch off in her spare time and just goes with the flow.
How do we crack this group – ironically many of whom are suffering the most as WASPI women; sandwich generation carers-babysitters of their own grandchildren and parents simultaneously; spinsters and widowed lonely vulnerable people with failing health?
Maybe we can get the young to convert their grannies as was suggested but we have to do something!
Thanks Capella…unfortunately that’s the very link that is ‘playing up’ really not sure if it’s ‘my end’ where the problem exists or whether others are experiencing the same ‘technical’ difficulties regarding the sound on that link?
How about Car Stickers with a message supporting Scotland’s NHS.
I can’t think of a suitably short hard hitting wording right now but I’m sure fellow Wingers can come up with something appropriate.
The “bbc misreporting Scotland” billboard campaign starts tomorrow.
John Boothman – Sunday Times – v. Interesting.
Surely not PQ’s late unlamented Head of News.
@ K1 – the sound is fine on my PC. Occasionally, Elaine has a poor Mic but swaps it quickly. In one section there is an echo in the background when Robin MacAlpine is speaking. But these are minor glitches which are soon corrected.
No idea why your sound is poor, sorry. In fact, I was impressed by how much IndependenceLive has progressed since the early days of a hand-held iPad! Well done everyone who contributed.
Maybe you can try changing the balance in your speaker system?
I’ve come around to the belief that, until we get independence, we shouldn’t have separate Scottish news programmes such as a ‘Scottish Six’ in place of the ones broadcast from London.
Why? Because the ‘national’ news from London gives us the perspective which BBC Scotland seems to wish to omit. (I can’t vouch for STV news, as I don’t often watch it.) While BBC Scotland recycles all the ‘SNPbad’ propaganda from the press and the unionist parties, the BBC in London informs Scots how bad things are in England – even sometimes, innocently, mentioning that services are better in Scotland. Were we only to have BBC Scotland news, the electorate would be fully exposed to the fake news.
@Thepnr says: 15 January, 2017 at 1:50 pm:
” … We all have elderly relatives and friends, work on them, give it both barrels we can’t afford to be shy.”
Well, actually, Thepnr, we do not all have elderly relatives but I may still have a few elderly friends.
Thing is many Wingers are now the elders of their remaining family.
Not only that but some of us were involved in what you younger guys consider the NEW technology when we were teenagers way back when hardly anyone knew what electronics were never mind what computers were.
This daft idea that all elderly people are idiotic luddite ignoramuses is not only very insulting but really quite wrong. The main reason there are larger proportions of older people who are Unionists is for quite a different and very logical reason.
These people are what remains of the once almost wall to wall unionist party supporters and voters. If you paused to think you would see the logic in that.
If the SNP membership in, say, 1955 was miniscule but is now the largest supported party in Scotland then it is logical that the other parties have not been growing in membership while the SNP have. Thus the proportion of younger members in the SNP will have been drawn from an ever increasing younger group of people.
Thus these forming the present larger support for the rapidly decreasing Union are not doing so because they are older but because they are all that remains of the former loyal unionist support with an ever decreasing proportion drawn from the younger generations.
When considering statistics it is all too easy to put carts before horses and come up with daft results because you do not stand back and look at the bigger picture.
This is the message behind the old saying about not seeing the wood for the trees. By standing up too close to the individual trees you cannot see the extent of the whole woodland area, (the wood).
Kudos once again to Rev. Stu and other accurate analysers of ‘our’ news.
‘All’ we need now are the methods to feed these facts to the rest of the populace!
On a daily basis these titles and their chain tuggers attack the Scottish government. Collateral damage? Trust in our public institutions. How many folk simply don’t seek aid from the SNHS, police, child services, education boards basically because they’ve been led to believe they are worthless and failing institutions? How much harm have these political fuckwits and their meeja chums visited on the public by this point?
That’s politics though, right? Who cares if some folk don’t get help when they need it? Who cares if some kids fall through the cracks? Crimes unreported? A mere bagatelle. Omelettes and eggs. The main thing is damage your opposition and make sure the right folk get the right result.
Politics as it is practised UK style and doesn’t it make you sick to your stomach.
Private Healthcare in America makes up 25% of the American economy. 25%.
For that they get what has been measured as one of the worst services and most expensive. It is also the number one cause of homelessness and the number 2 cause of bankruptcy.
Prior to seeing a medical professional for whatever ills them, they see an insurance broker and it is the insurance broker who will decide what medical department / route they are directed to. This admin cost is about 20% of their care costs.
In the NHS admin costs are some of the lowest in the world – below 5%
In America personal taxation rates are smaller than here. In the UK at the base rate of tax, about 1/2 of our tax pays for the NHS. And this is a point worth noting, because as the tories – red and blue – look to ‘first break and then steal’ our NHS and hand it over on a plate to those corporations greasing their palms, no one, no one is offering you a 50% tax cut… so your going to keep paying for it, just not get it.
And in fairness to the American Healthcare system, it was built entirely out of private money.
Here, in all honesty, they can’t really compete. Much, much better if they can get the use of existing hospitals, surgeries, fully trained up doctors and nurses that they didn’t have to contribute to the cost of training.
Then you look at Private Health Insurance…. oh what a comfort blanket, but remember, this is a private contract. The supplier can rip it up at any time and your only course of conduct then is to pay for a lawyer to fight it.
An American woman paid all her days for her health care, in her 50’s she was diagnosed with breast cancer – the first time she’d had any real health problems. Her insurance company informed her that they had discovered she suffered from a minor yeast infection in her 20’s and had not declared it on her form. Contract null and void.
This is the reason they are so aggressive about trawling for personal details, and why they are so valuable.
So you have politicians in WM and HoL’s who legally have to declare their financial interests with these private healthcare companies but then get to keep working to betray the people and the NHS with no legal come back of a ‘conflict of interest’ for the voters.
Not sure if the Tess talk is still available on you tube of Prof Gillian Richmond talking about this (pretty sure I’ve got the name right, but don’t hold me to it, as this is from memory). Another worth viewing on you tube was ‘Lucy Reynolds talks to Jill Mountford’.
One last thought, Mr Murdoch bought share in Genie Energy with its the oil prospects in Syria, how likely is it that he has financial interest in other lucrative markets. I’d suggest a 25% stake of a countries economy is lucrative.
Meg merrilees says:
Thinking laterally, maybe we are missing a trick.
The lies are all one sided.
Instead to tackling it in a partisan way i.e. Us versus them, they could be debunked in a neutral way. And in a similar style, don’t target Unionists, target the media inc broadcast.
Their output is blatant inaccurate propaganda. But, how is the uninformed person going to know the rebuttal isn’t propaganda from the YES side?
Basically, don’t brand the debunking as coming from the YES side, or the lies coming from the NO side. Simply brand it as ‘the true picture’, which it is.
Perhaps language like … “Scots are rightly proud of their Scottish Health Service.” … then some facts and challenges to lies which newspapers have carried stating date published.
I reckon soft NOs are more likely to be receptive to non partisan statements of fact, rather that what looks like counter propaganda.
Fancy reading something entertaining and informative unspoiled by the moronic intervention of Sententious Dave?
Scots and new lands: link to wp.me
La La Land: link to wp.me
@Stoker says: 15 January, 2017 at 1:53 pm:
“Why not rename/re-brand ours The SGHS?
(The Scottish Government Health Service)”
Maybe that will be because it is NOT the Scottish Government’s Health Service but belongs to the sovereign people of Scotland who may, in a future independent Scotland, elect a quite different government or even quite different form of government.
May I point out the present daft events in the US of America?
They have just started to abolish the US of A, so called, “Abamacare”, system that protects the care of the poorest section of their citizens.
Note:- Abamacare is an informal term for a federal law intended to improve access to health insurance for US citizens. The official name of the law is, “The Affordable Care Act or more fully, The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.
I believe the abolition owes far, far more to the presently elected USA administration’s political haltered of the former presidents politics than it does to the service being a bad thing.
Rather like the UK situation that feels compelled to brand anything done by the SNP as BAAAD. That, though, is the present state of political warfare of the modern World
Good points Mr Perrers at 4.40pm, from a septuagenarian.
Robert@4.40pm
Good points.
Many of the really elderly people in Scotland grew up/served during/after WWll. Conservative and Liberal values were much more to the fore. These generations know that ‘the country’ pulled together for the good of all; ‘our country’ defeated the Nazis and the Fascists; the UK or GB was a better functioning whole then and brought benefits to all parts of the land especially when the infant NHS was established.
So through the late 40’s, 50’s and 60’s GB was a productive, growing place, recovering from the war and hopefully bringing better living standards- however slowly- to all.
Many among these generations, (thankfully not all) still have the ‘Old Labour’ values – into which I was born-and think fondly of the ‘good times’ when they were younger; the UK ‘worked’ for them so why reject it now?
The youth of today have it so much easier, don’t know their born etc.. and by some comparisons, probably do have an easier time of things.
I suppose it’s easy to say that it all started to go well off the rails when Thatcher was in charge and she crushed the miners/ shipbuilders and manufacturing industries. I remember having to leave Scotland in the late 70’s and go to London as there were no prospects here.
For my generation onwards, the UK has not been good for Scotland, one reason for the rise of the SNP. ( I still have the SNP badge which I proudly displayed on my school blazer).
I read somewhere that prior to 1940’s the WM gov respected Scotland as a separate country and acknowledged that fact ; it is only the advent of Rationing that really created and re-inforced the concept of Scotland as ‘A Region’. Unfortunately that has stuck since then and we now have the ridiculous situation of WM government that tramples all-bar-Tories underfoot.
Thepnr is right to say that we have to tackle our elderly relatives who are NO voters. The future is not theirs. We have a duty to provide for them and they have to trust that we will not let them down BUT the future is not theirs or mine it is bigger than all of us, the future is Scotland’s and we cannot let down the generations yet to come.
Bruce and Wallace didn’t.
Profile of Arlene Foster coming up on BBC R4 at 17.40
Actually I know it’s a bit out there but
Sovereign Health…Has a bit of a ring to it.
Especially if we will be having Sovereign wealth discussed in the near future.
NHS costs £100Billion in England. £12Billion in Scotland (paid by Scottish taxpayers – Block Grant)
Total taxes raised in Scotland £54Billion.
Total taxes raised in the UK £515Billion + £100Billion borrowed – £615Billion.
NHS costs average 1/5 – 20%
The Tories are cutting NHS £20Billion over five years till 2020. £4Billion a year.
Even you are at it… It’s not 87%. In fact, it’s 82.3% of statistics are made up!
@gerry parker says: 15 January, 2017 at 2:44 pm:
“Here’s the reply I got when suggesting a petition in October 2015.”
That was a great and informative post, Gerry. Thank you for that.
It raises something I’ve posted about in relation to the Scottish Health services on several occasions.
That is the way the media treats most Health Service
stories in Scotland. Whether they be good or bad reports.
For example the media will make a story about a fall in the number of practitioners of any health related service seem to be the fault of the SNP Scottish Government. The truth, of course, is that the neither the SG or the SNP employ Health Care Workers of any description.
The employers of all Heath Care Workers, (with a very small few exceptions), is by the various areas Health Boards and these Health Boards are, in the main, dominated by the local councillors of the area. They also tend to have politically motivated health care professionals involved.
Labour dominates the local authority scene throughout Scotland and are rarely blamed for any perceived failings by the media.
How many times do we read a headline like, “Local Maternity Unit to Close, what are the Scottish Government going to do about it?”
This, of course goes far deeper than just SNHS matters as we saw with the latest COSLA stand against the freeze on Council Tax. My thoughts on the matter are that a great many of the weaknesses in Scottish Government can be put to rights by the next round of local council elections if the SNP can gain control of many more local authority councils.
OOPs my post @ 5.36 was ment to be a reply to
Robert Peffers @ 4.56
@HandandShrimp says: 15 January, 2017 at 3:05 pm:
” … Labour have over the last few years excelled in bare faced lies but that I think is more wild desperation than an actual plan.”
You think so, HandandShrimp? So just what do you call, “The Bain Principle”?
Here is a link to a bit about it by Ken Bell :-
link to kenbell.info
Herald ….
Theresa May will make it clear to Nicola Sturgeon tomorrow that she expects the First Minister to “respect the result” of the Brexit vote and not divide the country by trying to secure a special deal for Scotland.
link to archive.is
Well, if she does say this week that there will be no special deals then that will be stage two of the Scottish Government plan completed.
Seems sudden that in just a few days time we may know that May’s plan is ‘hard’ and will seek no special deals for Scotland.
Truth is it will be parcelled up as “we will tell the EU we want access to everything but also will curb migration, and IF you don’t agree to that we will go ‘hard'”.
And that IF will mean there is nothing certain until the EU make their rejection official.
It does mean that very very soon we will know that IndyRef2 is inevitable.
Perhaps that is part of May’s plan, she may believe an early IndyRef2 gives her the best chance of getting another NO. The SG will move when it best suits them, no earlier.
@Free Scotland says: 15 January, 2017 at 3:28 pm:
“The Sunday Times and the Daily Record on the same level – the gutter.”
Nah! Baith thae rags ir weel doon the sheugh an ben the the brander lang syne.
Owersettin intil the Inglis (No! Both disgusting news paper outlets are well down the gutter and through the siever’s drain long since).
galamcennalath
The Herald, the UK Government mouthpiece. It stills strikes me as extraordinary that Scotland must be the only country in the world where all the press and TV work for another Government and represents the interests of another country.
@gus1940 says: 15 January, 2017 at 4:03 pm:
“How about Car Stickers with a message supporting Scotland’s NHS.
I can’t think of a suitably short hard hitting wording right now but I’m sure fellow Wingers can come up with something appropri”
Old favoutite, gus1940 :-
Somewhat off topic.
We’re never going to be able to compete with the mainstream media in print on or air – and these are the sources of (mis)information for many people. They don’t access alternative media but they do walk regularly down the High Street and (hopefully) many will pass by the posters and mobile ads produced by the pro-Indy Inform Scotland group over the next couple of weeks (see IndyRef2 site, 10th Jan, for more info).
I’d like to propose a simpler and more cost effective solution to Yes groups around the country for future use. Produce simple stands/advertising boards of the type used to sell newspapers and find locations to display alternative/corrective headlines whenever the mainstream media produce misleading info (sorry, you’ll be busy, and busier than ever when Indyref2 kicks off – but, hey, that’s what we’re here for).
Hinged sheets of roughly 3×2 foot plywood on legs would do the job, though might have to be replaced regularly if vandalised. Posters would obviously be more striking if printed on a printer than hand written but low cost printers for home use are relatively common nowadays, though a number of sheets of A4 would be needed to make large posters. Corrective posters could also be displayed in windows.
The stands could also direct media savvy individuals to sites they may not have previously viewed (Wings isn’t yet the favourite site across the British Isles).
In the meantime prepare to tweet and facebook info about the Inform Scotland campaign after the BBC Misreporting Scotland campaign kicks off on the 16th.
The Times is a rag; it had a chance to become Scotland’s quality newspaper, with the Herald faffing about trying, I think, to reunite its Sunday and daily editions, but not having the guts to go fullblown balanced and impartial. In my opinion the Scotsman is the best of the three these days, though they should scrap the online forum or sell it to a university for psycholigical subject research.
The Times seems to be beaten by the Record of all papers which does make an attempt to be balanced. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Record cautiously endorse Independence when Indy Ref 2 becomes totally inevitable,, and Indy with it, as seems likely to happen in the next few weeks.
It would be funny to see the Record pip the Sun, with theguy whose name I forget (something like Trump) who owns the Sun and Times dithering around last time and meanwhile letting his Times run to rack and ruin.
And that’s all I have to say about that.
@gus1940 says: 15 January, 2017 at 4:03 pm:
“How about Car Stickers with a message supporting Scotland’s NHS.
I can’t think of a suitably short hard hitting wording right now but I’m sure fellow Wingers can come up with something appropri”
An old favourite, gus1940 :-
I heard the imperial state Scottish inguinal’s tonight talking about thousands of patients in Glasgow who had to wait more than 4 hours,
By the By hospitals use a very professional triage system, so the most urgent get seen first. Usually the longest waiting would have been better phoning NHS 24, or waiting till they could see their doctor, but not always.
Funny they asked Anas Sarwar, now mostly its like a failure telling the winner what he is doing wrong. Honestly who listens to this idiot.
One question worries me, why did he hate Donald Dewar with such passion?
So thankful the Rev yet again tells us the reason why figures not statistics.
Seriously we need to think how we thank him, and those like him after we obtain our country back.
The First Minister respects the vote of Scotland re brexit. It’s May and her cronies including Davidson who don’t beleve Scotland is a country tha are the enemies of democracy. Remember their lie Vote Yes and you will be thrown out of the EU.
This isn’t news anymore, it’s simply the truth.
Whilst it would be naïve to suggest that the health and social care budget (along with other public services budgets) is not also under enormous pressure in Scotland, the differences in approach by WM and SG reflect their differing political choices, and attitude to the role and function of the state in providing social protection.
‘…the government has failed to reassure doctors that it is dealing with the crisis in emergency care in England…Mark Porter , The BMA’s chair of council, said:
The government has failed utterly to get to grips with the scale of the problem , and we heard nothing in the health’s secretary statement which patients and NHS staff will take comfort from….
Figures from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine showed that average performance on the four hour target was 77%, but some trusts struggled at 50-60%, which the college said would leave to serious safety issues‘
BMJ 2017 ;356;j153
‘ Ministers have failed to show evidence that plans to introduce seven day access to GPs (in NHS England) are cost effective, the government’s national spending watchdog has warned…
Meg Hiller , the chair of the Public Accounts Committee said the government was trying to ‘shoehorn’ in seven day access without a clear idea of the additional costs or benefits it will bring. And this on top of problems for patients in accessing their GP even during a standard working week..
…Chaand Nagpaul , the BMA GP committee chair said; ’This is further evidence that the government’s plans for extending patient access are in complete disarray. To proceed without any sort of evaluation could lead to much needed investment being spent on measures which don’t adequately meet patient’s needs’
BMJ 2017;356;j164
‘Doctors face a struggle every day and everywhere in England: the fight to secure social care for patients well enough to leave hospital.
Even officially it worsens month by month, increasing harm to patients and financial strain on the NHS, at a time when it’s least needed.
The latest figures, aiming to size up the problem, broke records in October. Patients spent 200,000 days in beds they did not need that month, a rise of 25 per cent on the same month in 2015.
Known as ‘delayed transfers of care’, the NAO (National Audit Office) estimated that, in the case of older patients in England, the unnecessary days in hospital cost more than £800m last year.
As bad as it is, this official tally of costly and unnecessary hospital stays undercounts the problem ‘significantly’, the NAO admits in a study this year, by a factor of almost three.
And as usual, the language of audit does nothing to capture the human cost suffered by patients, their families and witnessed on wards daily by doctors, nurses and other professionals…
These so-called STPs (sustainability and transformation plans) aim to chart a path to more seamless health and social care services, while cutting some £26bn from their budgets by 2021.
But analysis by the BMA has found fresh evidence of deep financial problems in social care across large swathes of England. In some areas, financial deficits almost match those facing the NHS.
For instance, Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent predicts a £256m shortfall in social care, according to the latest figures from its STP. That’s less than the £286m black hole in its NHS services, but not by much.
The eight London authorities in the north-east London STP, which stretches from Barking and Dagenham to Hackney, face a shortfall in social care of £238m and a larger £578m in the NHS.
In Hampshire and the Isle of Wight, social care faces a financial black hole of £350m by the end of the decade, a third of the £1bn total defect, which includes the health service shortage.
As might be expected, hospitals in STPs with big social care deficits include those that most struggle to find social care for patients.
Almost half the time patients were stuck in hospitals in Staffordshire was owing to struggles to secure social care, according to the latest NHS England figures, collected from trusts in October’
link to bma.org.uk
As expected …
“The pound fell as much as 1.6 percent to $1.1986 in Auckland on Monday”
link to bloomberg.com
And, the low in Oct was that trading glitch rather than true market response.
@ Robert Peffers re SNHS … We dont Plaster over LIES.
am aff tae xray
@yesindyref2 6:24pm
I remember reading [November?] in the National an article by former editor Richard Walker where he hinted the National might be joined in its pro-indy stance by another daily.
Hamish100 says:
Also, the FM has respected the 2014 NO vote by offering compromises now.
It is May (and Cameron before her) who has disrespected that vote. In 2014 NO won by promises of DevoSuperFederalMax, a partnership of equals, AND continued EU membership. The Tories have reneged on everything.
The day of reckoning approaches!
@Robert Peffers says:
15 January, 2017 at 6:25 pm
Arrrgh!
That, “?”, in the post left here as a heart shaped symbol from the Times New Roman font set.
An old favourite, gus1940 :-
I ? Our Scottish NHS.
Looks like this blog doesn’t reproduce
Times New Roman and changed it to a question mark.
Express …
THERESA May has been urged to call Nicola Sturgeon’s bluff and hold a second independence referendum for Scotland – as experts currently predict an easy ‘No’ victory.
They really can talk some pish. There can’t be IndyRef2 until it is clear what form Brexit will actually take!
link to archive.is
Gillian Bowditch is a fabulous fraudster of the Times but it must be very disorientating for her readers if they do end up in a Scots hospital. “But one was expecting to find ones elderly relative on a filthy trolley next to the bins..”
OT After watching the Yes Convention and seeing Greens and others distancing themselves from the SNP, when it wasn’t necessary, I did wonder if they’d considered who in the world would recognise them if the SNP Government lost real majority or fell?
The UK Government, the EU Governments, the EU, the rest of the world wouldn’t deal with a panel of groups. They all need a Government to deal with.
The point made about the support for Ind among women over 55 had fallen, possibly because of pension concerns and Brexit, again made me wonder who did they think would effectively stand up for them as a Government? Labour? Labour has caved in to the Tories on just about all real issues and they are not going to be Government at Westminster, and will be ineffectual in Holyrood facing a Tory Government in Westminster.
The Tories will be looking after the South East of England, post Brexit.
I do get that feeling again that Scots can’t hold on to their advantages, and posturing groups are going to hasten the loss.
On the one UKOK hand, neo fascist Heil/Express shrieking Russian spooks tried to break up Britain 2014 ref, on t’other FT etc says its a UK spook what tried to bring down neo fascist Trump, golden showers with hookers, and Putin asking him to screw up NATO.
At least UKOK hackdom understands where they’re all a laughing stock.
Meanwhile, old Donalda had a newsroom, ee-eye, ee-eye-oh
And with that newsroom old Donalda says, SNP bad
link to bbc.co.uk
Is Scotland’s NHS knackered or is it working Donaldo!
Bowditch o the meatalist Times, Donaldo of the BBC Scotland creep show? Cant tell can you:D
The SNP are bad and-
“His comments came after a week in which a Glasgow maternity hospital was unable to admit expectant mothers due to overcrowding.
NHS Greater and Glasgow and Clyde apologised, blaming a higher than normal number of admissions at the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital for the problem. The woman were admitted to other hospitals.
In the same week the First Minister Nicola Sturgeon confirmed that plans for a network of trauma centres had been delayed.”
Maybe this is what all new and exciting Donaldo meant by winning back trust. We can trust her to been an even bigger UKOK con artist/propaganda merchant than Murdoch’s mob of tory gits.
@Brian Powell 7:27pm
I think it was a good start for Yes 2 at least from what I’ve read and heard online. Still a long way to go. One thing for sure: the britnat media will play-up any supposed internal splits – probably try to instigate them as well. Better we’re all talking together, even if we don’t agree on everything.
I’d imagine that Tom Gordon, Political Editor of the Herald favours the multiverse theory.
Every time he steps into the swirling Dark Matter that is BBC Pacific Quay,he passes through the portal into an alternative universe where Labour has 56 Scottish MPs in Westminster, has formed the Administration at Holyrood with 45% of the vote, and the SNP is a marginalised third placed also ran, with only one MP.
It can be the only explanation for the Upside Down agenda of BBC Scotland’s Politics and Current Affairs Department.
Labour, a poor third, on 15% (well Wee Rowley exhorted us all to heed ‘poll after poll’), gets centre stage on Brewer’s bolt on to Andra Neil’s Sunday Politics London Bubble.
Rowley would have us all wait to hear what Big T May and Jez Corbyn ‘will say” in their speeches this week, rather than answer fairly straight forward questions on Brexit, if he supported NS’ alternative proposals for Scotland to remain in the EU Single Market, and if he agrees with Dugdale that Labour Members should be able to vote for Independence. No answers from the wee man.
His non answer answer was that we should wait and see because it’s above his pay grade, and perhaps his intellectual capacity, to have an opinion on anything affecting the Scottish people. This car crash of an interview confirmed what I already knew; if this man is the cream of the Labour crop Up Here, it is of no surprise that they will slip below even the Lib Dems in Scotland within months.
But he rashly blurted out that the Scottish Labour Conference in February will ban any Labour member from voting YES in any future Indyref. Aye, right.
He clearly doesn’t have a clue about the Branch Office’s stance on Brexit, on a second Indyref, or what NS’ EU /Brexit proposals are.
DR Peter Bennie, Chair of BMA Scotland was interviewed on tape.
‘System failure’ but not yet. SHS working with the Scottish Government, to find solutions to the perennial issues like A&E pressures, recruitment of GPs and Consultants, and joined up care and discharge of patients into the community.
Ivan McKee, SNP and LisTory Boy Miles Briggs (who gets Briggser every time he appears on this show) discuss ‘system failure’, the only message Brewer got from his talk with Dr Bennie.
Is he under orders to peddle the lie that the Scottish Health Service is in as bad a state as the English and Welsh Services? Do you think?
Briggs, without a hint of embarrassment or guilt mouthed the usual Tory guff, while McKee pointed out that Dr Bennie mentioned in the taped piece that the BMA and SHS were working with the Holyrood Administration, that the SNP were injecting an additional £500 million into the HS,and working with the HS on staffing, and so on.
Oh, and there was a wee item on too many bookies on our High Streets.LA’s can now block licences.
Then Tom Gordon, looking as pissed off as Ivan McKee was earlier during Brewer’s post truth SHS ‘system failure’ SNP BAD item, and somebody called Katrine Bussey, who is apparently the Political Editor of the Press Association Scotland (whit?), discussing Labour again, then the SHS ,now established because Gordon Brewer keeps repeating it out loud, and the system failure’.
Money for old jam , Tom.
Welcome back to the future, my man.
Donalda is clearly a new broom, isn’t she?
They don’t even hide it any more, Stu.
What the what! Herald says
“SCOTTISH Labour deputy leader Alex Rowley has said his party will put forward a federal alternative to the “polar opposites” of the SNP and the Tories.
In the wake of the Brexit vote Mr Rowley said people did not want another independence referendum but want “the best deal possible for Scotland within the UK”.
Details of a UK-wide constitutional convention are to be set out by Jeremy Corbyn on a trip to Scotland later this week”
BBC Scotland says,
link to bbc.co.uk
JC rejects new act of UKOK union jibber jabber. Wish he’d make his mind up on anything at all.
Stoker @ 1.46
Just catching up and got as far as your post. On 10/1/17 I emailed Shona Robison about this and suggested the very same SHS or HSS.
No reply as yet but I reckon she’s probably been a bit busy this past week!
Winger Inspired post on Inform Scotland
Attention all Photoshoppers, media creatives, and all round prankers! Inform Scotland has been inspired by an inventive Winger to announce a new competition. link to informscotland.com
In addition to our photo competition and video competition, we are very excited to launch a new competition for the best ‘Phantom BBC Mis-Reporting” advert on the internet.
There are no rules, it’s open to your own artistic expression, but the idea is that the image needs to be extremely creative and striking in order to really capture the viewer’s imagination. This will help us maximize the number of hits to the website and therefore bring more attention to our campaign.
Think out of the box – you could have a BBC Mis-Reporting banner hanging off the Eiffel Tower, or on a ferry to the Isles, or trailing behind a jumbo jet ….
Or on a flag on the moon!!!
There are no limits to the possibilities – let your imagination guide you!
Thanks so much to the Winger who had this idea and sent us the excellent piece of art shown above. Hopefully this will get your creative juices flowing and you will be inundating us with even more extravagant images!
Please bear in mind that any stock image you might choose to use as a starting point must be copyright free. We suggest Pixabay.
Enter the competition by contacting us on our Facebook page or our contact page and sending a link to your phantom image hosted online. If you have used a copyright free stock image to create your phantom image, please also supply a link to the original image so we can give credit to the original image author.
Good luck!!
heedtracker says:
That will be Vow2 in the making?
They’ve had their chances to deliver DevoSuperFingHomeFederalMax.
A federal UK is virtually impossible.
The English aren’t interested.
The Tories will be even less interested.
Labour is in no position to do anything.
And … a Brexited UK is still a Brexited UK.
If I was Theresa May, I’d be getting a baaaad felling about Brexit.
It’s always the way with reports, judgements, political events etc, that the diplomats and civil servants very often know the gist of things before they happen, and even that cannot be known, say a vote result or something, then they can have contingencies in place for either result. That’s their job, and when strings are pulled, these people are the ones who decide which strings.
With Brexit, after Farage and his vitriolic comments being met with contempt, with Theresa May speaking after 1:00am at a dinner, and shunned at another EU gathering, then the Ambassador Ivan Rogers quitting, and the name escapes me, but there was another UK politician resigned because his position was untenable after Brexit; put that all together, and a picture emerges that Westminster and the EU are not communicating very effectively and could have wildly different perspectives on how Brexit is going to pan out.
When T May goes on about keeping her Brexit position secret before negotiations begin, there’s a question which enters my head; secret from whom?
I hardly expect the triggering of Article 50 is going to come as a surprise to the EU, and I rather suspect they have a fair grasp of what needs to be negotiated. The prospect of Westminster springing a surprise on them seems… limited. The secrecy puzzles me.
It’s strikes me as more likely the need for such secrecy relates to the unedifying process of cobbling together outline contingency arrangements for Trade when Brexit comes to pass. It’s secret because it isn’t legal for one thing, but secret too because by comparison with the full EU membership Westminster is waving goodbye to, whatever deals and letters of intent exchanged during this phoney war are certain to look threadbare and ad hoc. If “the country” saw that, there’d be panic in the streets and a slide on the pound from which you don’t bounce back.
I get the impression Theresa May was hoping for a kinder Europe, sympathetic to a government obliged to deal with an awkward referendum result, but instead she is meeting with European officials who know full well Brexit was nobody else’s fault except a feeble xenophobic Tory government scared of losing seats to UKIP. But instead of sympathy and condolences, Theresa is finding out the hard way how glad Europe is to be shot of the British and its awkwardness and arrogance. Boris Johnson appointed to the Foreign Office might have been a chuckle six months ago, but the EU wasn’t impressed and I rather suspect nobody is laughing now.
…Jonathan Hill stood down. Forgot his name.
The trouble with Scotland is folk are used to saying “they’ve done whit” too late
But when you try to warn them by saying “they’re going to do something” the population says “we’ll wait and see” and once again that’s too late
Folks brains have been ground down so much to always being reactive instead of proactive
We suffer from the Victor Meldrew politics of I don’t believe it followed by naebdy telt us
We did tell ye says us aye but we thought you were just making it up says them
2 Things
The sticker idea could be 1 (heart) (thistle) NHS
Win indy 2 by offering an increase/top up to Scottish pensions
Track record already established by Scot Gov work on living wage
galamcennalath says:
15 January, 2017 at 8:14 pm
heedtracker says:
What the what!
That will be Vow2 in the making?
Aye, see Donaldo’s crew buried JC’s knock back too. Cunning, raw hard cumming. Boost to UKOK heaven Kez all new and exciting act of union, JC says bugger off, BBC gimps don’t even report it, shock.
So god knows what SLab no.2 is gong to say to JC next week. “I voted for you JC, can I have Kez’s job please. I’m a funny lookin incoherent non entity but how bad can it get now?”
Car sticker? Simple: ‘BBC Scotland is lying to you.’
Galamcennalath @7.04pm
Just been to the Express website to read the Article about T May being urged to Call Nicola’s bluff, because there is a vote on it.
Played Devil’s Advocate and voted NO to the idea – currently, 84% of voters thinks TM should go and ‘make NS hold Indy ref 2’
Would she be that daft?
Amazing how the media can manipulate the masses!
The BUM make me feel sick.
Our SNHS makes me well = )
Simple.
Brian @ 7.37
Re women 55+ voting ‘No’ Who do they think will stand up for them?
Hate to generalise but from conversations I’ve listened to (older, not well off women) they often say:
‘I can’t stand that Nicola Sturgeon’;
‘She’s nothing but trouble. Ay moanin’ ;
‘What’s the SNP ever done for me?’
‘They should bring back Labour. Things were fine under them!’
Quite who they think the ‘They’ is who will bring back a wonderful Labour Party to save them, I don’t know.
Re their ignorance of what the SNP’s ever done for them – that’s up to us all to try and remedy and a damning indictment of the Scottish Media’s lack of truth.
Sadly, they also tend to have an attitude of ‘That’s oor lot an we just have to a get oan wi it!’
We have work to do!
Rather than attack the BBC directly, we should be attacking their lies. Show them up for what they are. When any public service in Scotland comes under media attack, let’s respond immediately, let’s stand and defend it.
I rather like the “Scottish Health Service is the Best” statement.
Or how about: “Baby Boxes are Cool”
Where can I buy a T-shirt?
Re car stickers:
I still like,
“Is that true . . . or did you hear it on the BBC?”
44% of women 55 – 65 voted for Independence.
27% of women over 65 voted for Independence.
Based on a poll of 2000 people.
Every time Boris pops up on the news remember that this doughball is the guy referred to on the GB Passport as “Her Britanic Majesty’s Secretary of State!”
heedtracker
I assume that Alex Rowley has had assurances from the Tories and all the peoples of England that they will go along with this.
How much will sterling fall again as soon as Remainer Theresa finishes her speech of doom next week? Tell your broker, short sterling vile seps:D
Remainer Teresa v Ruth the Mooth. Ruthie babes has been very quiet lately. Its almost as if all new and exciting Donaldo’s got her hiding in her potting shed, like a hibernating hedgehog.
Meg merrilees
There is a lot of work to be done. Those women making those comments don’t seem to realise the Scottish Labour Party in Holyrood has never had to face a Tory Westminster Government. While Lab was in power in Holyrood it was also the Government in Westminster.
Brian Powell says:
15 January, 2017 at 9:23 pm
heedtracker
I assume that Alex Rowley has had assurances from the Tories and all the peoples of England that they will go along with this
No idea. My vile sep eyes glaze over when he or any SLab chump speaketh on to their Scotland region. He needs a proper job, as does JC really, both very odd lads. I really like that nice Tristam chappie, my kind of red tory with all that blue tory bubbling away underneath. You know where you stand with socialist workers like Tristram.
Ken 2@9.11pm
I’m using the figures quotes by Lesley Riddoch(?) yesterday at the Indy conference of fewer than 25% of women 55+ are pro- Indy today…
I’d rather believe your figures!!!
The english NHS is in crisis and is being dismantled, the Scottish NHS is not perfect, but it is being managed well and therefore not in crisis, and not being dismantled. The unionists cannot abide that fact and not only that, they like to pretend that they are subsidsing the SNHS.
I remember quite a few years ago, when Labour were in power at Holyrood, our GP at the time mentioning that the Western General in Edinburgh was going to be closed down. Now that would have left one hospital without the capacity required and hugely expensive due to Labours PFI, the main hospital for the whole of the city, on the edge of the city. The western is still here, has been expanded and is a great hospital, and crucial that it was saved, once the SNP took the helm.
Labour would definitely have dismantled the SNHS first, before the ENHS. Just like the poll tax, they would have used Scotland as a guinea pig, again. (or hamster, as my son once said, which I thought was very sweet!)
Meg merrilees says:
Just the Express playing silly buggers.
However, there are views expressed here and there that an early IndyRef2 would be easier for NO to win.
I suppose their logic is that Brexit will swing soft NO to YES when it’s true nature is apparent, and they want to have it while those NOs are still NO.
However, that is all nonsense because IndyRef2 is a response to Brexit, not just something the SG/SNP fancy having sometime. So it has to be firstly Brexit exposed, then IR2 because it is not in Scotland’s interests.
Actual arrangements for Brexit will be seen as awful, a majority Scots already don’t want it, opinion shifts to YES, Nicola sets the date. Hopefully, a decent YES majority follows.
Well done Rev another great piece. I just wish your stuff could get the MSM coverage it deserves.
@Meg merilees
The problem all interpretations of polling (trends) face is that single polls don’t mean much and aggregate results may not be comparable (different questions, different weightings to make the samples more representative, small samples, etc). James Kelly on ScotgoesPop is good at explaining how he creates his Poll-of-Polls to try to assess changes.
I wasn’t clear yesterday where Craig’s data came from. But he did appear to show a dramatic decline in support for independence among older women.
I think we should behave as if he’s right, and try to address the causes of that decline. Then if it’s smaller than he thought, we’ve got leeway.
I’m sure that there are people in England who would like to repatriate every one who arrived after 1066. There would be special groups to root out any romans or vikings still lurking around.
They get away with this day in and day out because the Press “regulator”, like all other “regulators” and “ombudsmen” is rotten to the core.
Can Scotland afford to wait beyond 2017 for a new referendum on independence?
Galamcennalath
I trust Nicola’s judgement.
Sorry for being ambiguous – I wondered if TMay would be so daft!
Mischief making of the most crass order from the Daily Feckless!
Attended the sold out Scottish Independence Convention on Saturday. Lots of excellent speakers and interesting comments from the floor. However, was disappointed to listen to the editor of The National make a plea for understanding on behalf of print and broadcasts journalists for the difficult job they have and the difficult position they are in. It was very hard not to heckle.
Every SNP MP/MSP/spokesperson should adopt an adversarial, scathing and sarcastic manner towards the hostile print and broadcast journalists and not shrink from highly personalised attacks on their professional integrity, political affiliations, personal failings etc. Play the man/woman/organisation first then get around to answering whatever stupid question has been put. The evidence of the last 10 years is that kid gloves does not work.
The yoons (no matter what party in charge at Westminster) will run the NHS into the ground) you heard it here first.
Our friendly allies “America” are lining up the UK health service for a “slam dunk”.
The facts are there for all to see if you look hard enough, they shafted the Empire at the “big wars” we only stopped paying them for their “help”? a few years back. ALLIES?? Aye right.
They have screwed the UK on the banking crisis(caused by underhand LYING by the Americans), they now have their sights on the NHS.
From Tony “War Crimes” B liar, to the current sorry excuse of a government, the runes say the UK NHS is FKED unless the country wakes up.
(easy money for Shyster and Silverstein inc) every one of them feathering their nests.
O/T
I have posted before about Slabs finest!? Rowley, being an ok politician, just watched him on yatube from brewery this morning,
Slab can keep him, total “embarrassment.”
Stu: I don’t know what we’d do without your clinical slicing and dicing of the MSM’s lies and dis/mis-information. And today we had wet Nats asking us to be nice to these bastards. Not a chance.
@Meg merrilees
====================
The damage Thatcherite (as it was called, actually she was just a front for the budding neo-liberal forces in this country) policies did to our economy are well known and no need to rehearse them here. However many folk don’t seem to realise the more subtle and long-term damaging effects this had on our culture and society.
Fairly strict rules were loosened allowing ministers and public officials to move much more quickly into jobs with big companies who had dealings with their government departments – New Labour did away with this entirely, completing the creation of the “revolving door” between government and big business.
The BBC, always a bit right wing and pro-establishment but once nevertheless still a reasonable source of news if you took its bias into account, was attacked, “managerialised” and eventually turned into a pro-government propaganda machine.
Council house building was reduced (many sold off but Councils not allowed to use the money to build new houses) so we have a housing bubble and young people having to pay fortunes in rent as they can’t get mortgages. Banks encouraged to get people into massive debt, tax dodging for the wealthy encouraged while support for the needy and disabled cut and propaganda encouraging hatred for them is used to split society.
All this came about because of the policies of the Thatcher government and her acolytes who followed such as Blair, Brown, Cameron and now Osborne. I know folk here are aware of the awful consequences we see now but they may not realise the early seeds out of which it grew.
Hamish100,
“It’s May and her cronies including Davidson who don’t beleve Scotland is a country”
Well, like it or not, they are right.
Scotland is a colony, and 55% of the voting electorate endorsed that in September 2014.
There will be absolutely no special deal for Scotland, and therefore it is my view that Nicola is being dishonest in giving the impression that there could be.
A second independence referendum should have been called for immediately after the Brexit vote, when all the unionist parties were in a mess and panic.
We should have struck when the iron was hot.
The evidence of the last 10 years is that kid gloves does not work.
That’s exactly what they want, to drag everyone into their sewer, their tory sewage awaits for the first YES MP and MSP. Its very stinky.
There’s a interview with Salmond on ITV Breakfast tv maybe last week going round with Piers Morgan. Its goes pretty well for an ITV sofa chat Salmond, reasoned, calm and respectful, good humoured fact based, but right at the end Peirs suddenly bursts out and into a really weird display of mockery on Salmond, Scotland, you, me and any Scot interested in not being run by planet toryboy.
Salmond just smiles.
Clive Scott,
“However, was disappointed to listen to the editor of The National make a plea for understanding on behalf of print and broadcasts journalists for the difficult job they have and the difficult position they are in. It was very hard not to heckle.”
The National does not support independence and never has.
It is a cash cow for the Herald group to milk gullible independence supporters.
Buy The National if you want to keep the venomous The Herald alive.
A second independence referendum should have been called for immediately after the Brexit vote, when all the unionist parties were in a mess and panic.
We should have struck when the iron was hot.
It wasn’t hot:D
Also, if it was lost last year, what’s the plan Rock? Slither into a BBC Scotland future ruled world of snivelling shits, all desperately trying to expunge anything YES and SNP. That’s what cold iron striking gets you.
Markets have opened in Far East. Pound at 1.204 against the dollar.
It is not just political parties such as the Tories who are pro privatisation of the NHS there is also support for it within elements in the upper reaches of the medical profession and their professional bodies such as the BMA and the Royal Colleges. They won’t say it directly – apart from some GPs particularly in England who have on several occasions over the last few years floated the idea of charging for appointments.
Listen, listen carefully, when any of them are interviewed such as today when Gordon Brewer interviewed the head of the Scottish branch of the BMA. It is what they don’t say that is important.
None say explicitly that privatisation is the way to go. What they do say is:. ‘Current situation is unsustainable’. Or: ‘We need to change how we do things’. Or: We need to have a discussion/consultation with the public about the way firward’
All designed to put privatisation or some form of payment system on the agenda.
Note, it is not all doctors. It is not even a majority but it exists. So pay attention. It is not just politicians who are on the privatisation hobby horse.
If you are serious about converting NO voters to YES then a good place to start might be to stop referring to them as ‘yoons’.
It just makes you sound like a bunch of yokels.
The pound has already dropped below $1.20 and against the Euro it is below 1.13 tonight.
I noticed a commentor mentioned the press complaints commission/press regulator..
I read an article by a Jon Danzig about the British msm and their lies and made up stories, he wrote to IPSOS to complain,….
He waited 7 months on a reply, only to discover the chairman was also the editor of the daily mail, ? Dacre…didn’t catch his first name….
never found the article again……
It just makes you sound like a bunch of yokels.
What if you are a yokel, like me. Yoon culture works, anyway why is it beyond your ken to accept that medics may be lobbying hard right now for more funding, right now, as its getting cut so much anyway?
The medic that Brewer interviewed conceded Scots NHS was stretched but coping. What he really wants is more consultants but that takes a decade at least.
@Dan Huil
It could be the Herald. It had that series of articles about the effects of Brexit, and is still giving good coverage to groups like the universities that are saying what damage it will do with the loss of freedom of movement.
It’d be good if it was the Herald, as newsquest own a whole load of local newspapers including mine. I’d say they’ll wait and see the UKSC ruling / Sewel and the Holyrood LCM, and if it’s to be a hard Brexit. Like the SNP with Indy Ref 2 timing is important and I’d guess they don’t want to jump too soon. Interesting article today about Wendy Alexander, vice principal of Dundee Uni.
One poll that was done was the BMG one for the Herald. You can get the full breakdown of results clicking on the link down the page.
link to bmgresearch.co.uk
The Herald is definitely keeping an eye on things.
The Scottish NHS have been trying to lure doctors to Scotland for some years – they have offered a ‘golden handshake’ to fill GP posts in rural areas.
I don’t see what else they can do as I read earlier that most newly qualified doctors, nurses and midwives expect to go overseas where they are appreciated.
Says a lot about the Tory government.
legerwood
A fair point. To me a Yoon is the die hard Unionist that would vote No even if they knew perfectly well that it was not in Scotland’s best interest.
A No voter by contrast is just an ordinary voter trying to make the best of the information they have and hoping they are making the right choice. Many that voted No were doing so because they believed they were doing so with their head even though their heart might have wanted it to be otherwise. It’s hard to vote Yes when the BBC and the great and the good are telling you that there will be no pension, no NHS, no schools and that WW3 will start if Scotland becomes independent.
O/T just noticed Neil Oliver’s quote of putting distance between himself and the SNP as he appears to be in New Zealand. Do us a favour and stay there.
@Returnofthemac
Perhaps they’ll be making the precursor of the Hobbit there, the Silmarillion, and Oliver will naturally be pressed into service as an orc. Or, of course, Gollum himself!
My Preciousssss
Yoon culture hard core, apparently “North Sea oil could have helped tackle the NHS crisis and pension liabilities by contributing to a sovereign wealth fund.”
link to theguardian.com
Its not been wasted too much. England does have a lot to show it all.
The irony of Neil Oliver finding refuge from the SNP in a small country of 5m people that is successfully independent and it is a place he likes is quite remarkable.
It is asking a lot of the Kiwis that they keep him but I suspect he is just doing a Coast programme and that he will return to us in due course.
That Graun can’t bring himself to mention his Scotland region of greater England either.
“John Penrose, the Conservative MP for Weston-super-Mare, has a more radical suggestion – do what should have been done all those years ago and launch a sovereign wealth fund.”
Aye, N.Oliver, the, ‘historian’ in N.Z, god help them. There are no castles or anything there, history is scant Neil, like your heed, there are lots of mountains to get lost in though.
Aye, N.Oliver, the, ‘historian’ in N.Z, god help them.
M?ori culture of New Zealand feels a lot like Gaelic in Scotland. So that is one hard core yoon that is going to see a lot of resemblance in the way the incoming anglos have dealt with and are dealing with, the indigenous non British push back against colonialism. Its probably why you never hear about what is happening in New Zealand with the indigenous people, from outfits like the BBC.
@Artyhetty
I expect Neil Oliver’s doumentary will reveal that New Zealand was a primitive country with no native population until the British Empire took pity and spread itself all over to protect the non-existent indigenous natives from, errr, themselves. The New Zealand Wars of 1845-72 apparently never happened, and New Zealand will be as glad to be rid of Oliver as many of us in Scotland would be.
I doubt his visa will be renewed.
Agree Heedtracker. Was almost going to live there yrs ago, but thought culturally quite devoid, except for Maori. Lots probs thr now,gov v like tories,wrecking land,water, seas etc,Maori’s still very marginalised far as I can see. They are much more likely to be poor, jobless and suffer mental health probs. Shame, a great country otherwise.
Usually catch up what’s going on in N.Z via Greenpeace N.Z. All a huge worry, was once a place to be looked up to, environmentally at least.
Heedtracker, agree, NEVER want to see any of us dragged into that sewer.
You are very good at what you do and very kind to our Rock, steering him in the right direction without removing your kid gloves…today = )
Oh here some of you bloody well go AGAIN! Let’s just have a cheap pop at women, especially if they are over 55. On what level do you think you are winning friends rather than creating enemies?
I have supported Scottish independence all my life. I’ll soon be 64 but honestly to god, some of you really put me off with your generalisations.
I’m almost tempted to vote NO next time just to piss you off (only joking).
Just listened to BBC propaganda. (Sorry). NHS cancelling cancer operations wholesale, apparently in England but not stated as such until a byword at the end of the report.
I have e-mailed my MP asking him to raise the question of Scotland’s health service be renamed back to its original, getting rid of NHS Scotland, a title somewhat disliked by many in our health service & largely ignored by the English State broadcasting company.
Original was changed by one of our former colonial governors, Michael Forsythe, I believe. Just one of the useless things the useless twat did for his home nation.
@Yesindyref2
So Mr Oliver has travelled to a small, successful, independent nation of almost 5 million in order to troll a small devolved nation of just over 5 million in the middle of constitutional and economic upheaval?
He’s no just the brightest, is he? 😀
@Macart
With any luck he’ll be invited to face the All Blacks doing the Haka, the referee will blow the whistle and someone will give him the ball.
Neil Oliver doing the usual Yoon “Oh God, isn’t Scotland such a horrible country etc..”
“However, was disappointed to listen to the editor of The National make a plea for understanding on behalf of print and broadcasts journalists for the difficult job they have and the difficult position they are in.”
That seems like such a strange attitude. What is the difficult position that they are in?
If they have to remain neutral, I don’t see why that’s the problem. If he’s hinting that they are leaned on to go a certain way, then I don’t have much sympathy for them.
@Yesindyref2
Clean underpants optional. 😀
Just listening to BBC1 and it’s “Over to the US where Trump won by the narrowest of margins”.
Whatever you think of Trump, the BBC lie yet again. Trump won by 304 to 227 in the electoral college vote, with 30 states as opposed to 20. “Narrowest”? Lying swine.
@Macart
That’s made me feel very queasy!
Stuckdoonthehame@2.17am
‘Let’s just have a cheap pop at women, especially if they are over 55’
I am a 60 year old female. I was the first on this thread @ 3.55pm to particularly single out this age group and I’m sorry if you think my remarks, or others, are a ‘cheap pop at women over 55+ but they are my genuine concerns at the horrendous statistic mentioned on saturday at the Independence convention, in Glasgow, that my age group has only a 22%-25% support for an Independent Scotland. Compare that with the 16-34 age group where it already stands at 51%
My comment @ 8.58, which I preceded by saying ‘I hate to generalise’ contains genuine remarks I have heard expressed, often, by women in this age group when I have been socialising with them. That’s what worries me!
Things are better in Scotland than the rest of the UK for this age group so what can I do, we do, to try and get the facts to this group of women.
e.g. What has the SNP ever done for me? Free prescriptions; frozen Council tax for the last few years; kept free bus passes at 60; tackled the Bedroom tax; introduced Baby boxes – for their daughter’s/grandchildren’s benefit etc.
Please never give up on Scottish Independence – we will all need to do everything we can to help spread the word and counteract the lies spread by the BBC, The Daily Mail and other papers so as to bring everyone with us on the road to Indy.
Yesindyref2
Did Hilary get 2million or 3 million more votes? Can’t remember as it was so close!
Andy Murray just won through to next round. Well done that man- Sir!
Neil Oliver is a very angry and bitter man.
I suspect that his brief from the Colonial authorities is to convince us that London rule is good and the British Empire was a force for good.
He got promised a gong that was dependent on his work turning Scots off of Independence.
That hasn’t worked, with the result that he gets no gong and that has produced even more anger from him.
Sandy Says:
Just listened to BBC propaganda. (Sorry). NHS cancelling cancer operations wholesale, apparently in England but not stated as such until a byword at the end of the report.
I have e-mailed my MP asking him to raise the question of Scotland’s health service be renamed back to its original, getting rid of NHS Scotland, a title somewhat disliked by many in our health service & largely ignored by the English State broadcasting company.
Original was changed by one of our former colonial governors, Michael Forsythe, I believe. Just one of the useless things the useless twat did for his home nation.
I agree Sandy but I think this is all a part of the BBC’s master plan. They can’t be allowed to see Scotland’s NHS doing well and the rest of the country do so badly so they have to express it in different ways to maintain it’s BAAAAADNESS.
If for instance you live in Scotland the BBC’s remit is to pick up on such figures as the one mentioned in this article because most news bulletins are shown after the national news so it’s got to balance with the bad news from there.
If you were to watch south of the border the idea being is to speak about the terrible state of the NHS but should Scotland be mentioned because of say junior doctors strike then it’s a case of play that down and make people think that it’s being subsidised by Westminster somehow by mentioning the Scottish budget.
By playing both sides though it’s a tightrope because it’s driving a wedge between the countries and it’s only a matter of time before that opinion registers with people who voted last time to remain with the UK. Healthcare and the NHS is a matter for national pride on all sides. Gordon Brown used it as a last throw of the dice to frighten pensioners into voting NO.
This time that battle line needs to be drawn and pointed out because it’s an easy win for people in an aging population to vote for a health system that looks after them and the BBC and others know it.
link to caltonjock.com
Morning all.
Re the unveiling of the billboard posters, going live Scotland-wide today. I went out for a daunder last night to check out the site for the one on Glasgow’s Clydeside Expressway.
If your driving toon-bound (East) and coming fae Partick (West), you’ll see the Clear Channel billboards to your right (just before you go under the pedestrian bridge near to the helipad,) there are six of them. They currently advertise everything from cars to furniture to fast food..
BUT, to the far right there was a blank billboard, so I guess it’s been prepped up and that’s where the poster is going (I mean how often do you see an empty billboard space? High profile stuff here!) I realise the posters are for single use.
BTW, wait till you see the current poster to the left of BBC Misreporting Scotland billboard.. it will be very fitting, but you’ll have to go and see it for yourself.. I’ll give you a clue though, it’s indirectly related to Donalda.
Good luck to ye Cadogan Enright and all the team at Inform Scotland and good luck to all the eager photographers too.
Roll on the rush hours!
Links
link to indyref2.scot
link to autonomyscotland.org
link to randompublicjournal.com
Scotland’s Brexit minister accuses Tories of ‘con-trick’
link to archive.is
Neil Findlay helped by BBC saying sport is important. Shouldn’t he take it up?
There’s always a catch
link to richardcorbett.org.uk
Self serving tory
link to archive.is
link to theneweuropean.co.uk
link to politico.eu
Eoghan Murphy: Hard Brexit is now inevitable
link to archive.is
Brexit blues
link to archive.is
“The two major economic weaknesses in Great Britain are the considerable trade deficit and the large budget deficit. The “threats” of Hammonds with taxes and tax cuts are therefore threats with self-harm and as such an expression of British helplessness, “said CDU deputy Norbert Röttgen of the” world “.
Use your translate function for the rest of the article
link to welt.de
link to uk.businessinsider.com
Nana:
Thank you, Kettle’s on
Peace Always
Welcome to smallville,an everyday town,anywhere.
All the ‘big car’ salesmen have gone,the windows of the casino bankers,all boarded up,they have headed back down south,(what is it they say,about nesting birds and well fed dogs ?).
Seems like they been lying to everbody for….well forever,I looked at the sign,below the big Welcome letters,somebody had written….to The Project…The Fear.
It only took a decade or so for it all to collapse,people in Scotland (as is their want) were first to take them on,but they somehow slithered away,avoiding defeat,narrowly and by the skin of their teeth….then came brexit….then trump.
Finally more and more people acknowledged,that if something was untrue by an inch,it was untrue by a mile (and the fear was gone) people don’t much appreciate being lied to,or threatened….it was payback time.
No,No,you had your chance,forget it…it’s over….but it wasn’t over,the second chance came and the people grabbed it with both hands.
The painter washed over everything on the sign except the big Welcome letters and when the undercoat had dried,he painted on some new words.
Welcome to Scotland
Failte gu Alba
(Yes,we are better together,but just in a way that they never intended or could have ever imagined,turns out,there is a big difference to what people choose to believe (truth) and what people ‘feel compelled’ to believe (propaganda).
#PlantFlowersNotWeeds
And HEY!
Don’t forget to SOUND YOUR HORN when you pass your billboard!
Make some noise!
carjamtic:
Love it! where can we buy the book? 🙂
Peace Always
@Smallaxe Good morning, have a few more links.
link to indyref2.scot
link to snp.org
link to rt.com
Two clowns
link to youtube.com
With the English NHS in meltdown and BBC Labour desperate to tar the Scottish NHS with the same brush, now is an opportune time to rebrand the Scottish NHS. The Scottish government really needs to highlight the fact that our health service is distinct and it is performing a lot better than the one doon sooth. Something simple, for example:
The Scottish health Service
or
Scottish Health
Avoid the “national!” bit IMO – too easy to connect with the English NHS.
Imagine how the yoons would howl with rage. 🙂 The SG could even organise a poll to select the most popular new name. With NHS doon sooth in meltdown, now would be an excellent time to do it.
So Nicola, Shona, how about it?
Remember last month we heard that 62 people were as rich as half the population of the planet, 3.5 billion?
Apparently that was wrong. It’s 8 rich people.
Think tank tells Oxfam to stop obsessing about the rich and get on with the day job, food parcels etc.
Eight billionaires ‘as rich as world’s poorest half’ – link to bbc.co.uk
There are going to be pure loads of people driving to work today, looking out their windows at the new billboard posters, who will then find themselves saying..
Yes!
“Brexit together”
Says Labours Caroline Flynt, sound familiar
Nana:
Elevenses as well! Great.
Peace Always
@cactus:
Looking forward to seeing the billboards at Glenrothes tomorrow!
I wonder how Misreporting Scotland will report the nationwide event. Should be interesting…
Am loving your pure joy Cactus = )
Will we be seeing any bonny new posters here in the east? Sadly,this neck of the woods is in dire need of encouragement!
What a bright start to our new week = )
Meg at 6.54am – was there any speculation on why the 55+ women age group is not keen on independence?
I am thinking along the lines of which demographic would, generally, have the lowest self-esteem? It takes a certain amount of self-belief & belief in your fellow citizen to believe independence is best – if you have been told all your life how worthless you are, it is a difficult thing to believe otherwise. Building self-belief and confidence in those cases might bring about change – people tend to only look at the numbers & practical aspects after they have emotionally decided on what they want. Just a thought.
@ Cactus
Could you please let me know where the billboard will be stopping in South Queensferry tomorrow?
And if this happens again could you please stop off in Dunfermline somewhere? Thanks.
Neil Oliver goes to a country with a large Scottish diaspora, many supporting Scottish Independence and whinges about the party supporting Indy? That’ll work out well.
@ Luigi
“The Scottish health Service
or Scottish Health
Avoid the “national!” bit IMO – too easy to connect with the English NHS.”
Absolutely right.
Some folk want Scottish National Health Service (SNHS) but that’s playing in to the Unionist hands.
Scottish = country-wide
National = country-wide
You don’t need two so SCOTTISH it must be.
If you have SNHS then every msm article, Beeb story, beeb interview, Ligger Andra, Marr etc. will by “pure coincidence” “forget” the word Scottish and say NHS.
You’re back to square one again screaming at the tele, “It’s the Scottish …..”
Don’t open the door one little chink or they’ll pounce.
Scottish Health Service 🙂
Nana says:
….a “hard Brexit” is inevitable now and that there is a growing danger of a “disorderly” exit from the EU by the UK …
Disorderly? Usually it’s a Hard Brexit. Hard as opposed to soft cuddly Brexit.
Real Brits like it hard, soft is for wimps.
At one point the phrase Dirty Brexit was being banded about to describe a UK walk away.
Clearly ‘dirty’ wasn’t a word the Brexiteers who actually want a walk away liked. So the coined the term Clean Brexit, as is clean break. The media obliged and we hear no more of Dirty, just Clean.
And now another possible label, a Disorderly Brexit. Seems a good description of the chaotic approach May et al seem to be taking.
Rock says: 15 January, 2017 at 11:08 pm
Rock,
Come on are you daft, do you think in any way we could start and win a independence referendum in 2017, do you really think Nicola Sturgeon is a liar, and finally what is the Scotland can’t wait pish.
So your contributions on this thread is, Don’t trust Nicola as she is a liar, have a vote when the indications are we would lose, and don’t trust the National as it is a front for unionists.
Tell you what I believe, given what you say, and I can’t read your mind so I don’t know what the hell is going on in there, but everything you say is what unionists say, if you are a unionist troll, you are so obvious as to be laughable, if you are an independence supporter, you need to become better informed, you need to think your argument through and stop talking crap.
gerry parker, Andy, Meg Merrilees, Liz Rannoch et al:
Re; OUR health service. I too shall write to Shona Robinson etc. We have to start somewhere and we really need to produce something that clearly differentiates our relatively successful service from the struggling other services south of our border.
Have a read at the comment by ‘Luigi’ at 8:40am this morning – that’s where i’m coming from – it’s as if he’s read my mind. Reading all the comments on this thread i get the impression that the most popular choice seems to be The Scottish Health Service. Has anyone any objections to promoting that choice?
Let’s do this folks! As thepnr stated in his post further up stream, there should be no need for petitions and the SNP should have been right onto this (especially since it was a stinking blue Tory responsible for the current deliberate confusing situ). Well, the SNP haven’t so maybe they require a wee push in the right direction? They are, after-all, a listening Party.
Meg, i will respond to you (re: Fact Cards) in more depth once i get a bit more time to myself, we really need to get that idea flowing also. We just can’t keep relying on others to do this, that and the other and sitting on our erses waiting on something to happen. We need to have the public educated to the facts long before someone squeezes that starting trigger.
SNHS/NHS renaming?
I’d choose Healthcare Scotland and I would widen the scope to include ‘care’, as they do in Northern Ireland.
Well, Tom Gordon political editor of the Herald has certainly earned his appearance money on yesterday’s BBC Scotland’s Sunday politics show during which Just To Be Clear Brewer invented a SHS ‘breaking point’ Project Fear story from a recorded interview with Glasgow based Consultant psychiatrist Peter Bennie, who is chair of the British Medical Association’s Branch Office in Scotland, and member of the BMA UK Committee. (No vested Unionist interest there, eh?)
The Herald BritLand leads their online offering with:-
“NHS stretched to ‘breaking point’ says British Medical Association Chief’.
The opening paragraph of this unattributed piece of SNP BAD mince?
“Nicola Sturgeon’s attempts (I must have missed the ‘attempts’)to calm fears (whose ‘fears’? Miles Briggs’? Wullie Rennie’s? WATP Tomkins’?)over the NHS in Scotland (You mean the ‘Scottish Health Service’, Herald?)have suffered a severe setback after one of the country’s ‘most senior doctors (is he?) warned (another Nicola ‘warning’ from the Herald)that the service is at breaking point.”
I watched the Brewer pre-recorded (and presumably Unionist edited ) Sunday Politics Brewer/ Bennie piece.
Bennie said, that the Scottish Health Service is coping but near breaking point. He acknowledged that the Health Professionals are working with the Scottish Government on tackling the problems, and that extra money had been diverted to resolving critical mass health issues.
Presumably Tom Gordon as editor ok ‘d this anonymous Project Fear /SNP BAD/ Health in crisis piece of frippery?
Yet Elaine C Smith exhorted us all to go easy on the Dead Tree Scrollers at the SIC Conference this week end. aye, right.
They deserve all they get, Ms Smith.
Graf Midgehunter on 16 January, 2017 at 9:48 am:
Spot on!
Winger-inspired competition now growing legs
link to facebook.com
Stoker @ 10.00 and others
SHS or HSS – absolutely nothing with N in it! Still no answer to my email of 10/1/16.
I presume Clegg and Gordon met on Sunday to decide the Better Together SNP Bad Project Fear Health Scare headlines for Monday’s editions.
The Daily Record has a picture of a seven year old with tubes sticking out of him on a hospital bed, and details his mother’s 300 mile a ‘day’ trip to Edinburgh to see him because Glasgow’s New Hospital hadn’t a bed. (Glasgow to Edinburgh 45 miles BTW)
There is mention of an estranged father in the piece, who seems to have done nothing to alleviate his son’s mother’s anguish in all of this.
The SNP are the BADDEST FUCK UPS in the history of Scotland.
Alex Rowley and Iain Gray wouldn’t have let this scandal happen. Vote Labour!
The sad tattered remnants of journalism in Scotland.
Clegg, pathetic.
Norway`s $885,000,000,000 oil fund is trending on twitter,
seems `Britain` is pissed they don`t have one.
galamcennalath 9:57 am
… it is beyond argument now that the UK is going to hard Brexit.
A soft Brexit would always require the continuation of free movement and that is not politically possible in the UK given the EU Referendum result.
The degree of “hardness” of Brexit will be ultimately be dependent upon the stance taken by the EU.
Just with events so far, with the £ devaluation, coupled with strong growth and other good economic indicators, as discussed previously, our negotiators have a number of cards to play and will actually be able to “negotiate”. This is surely good for everyone in the UK (including those of us in Scotland and London and the South East that voted Remain), given that we are leaving the EU.
If the EU refuse to “give” on anything then we will have to revert to WTO rules and the EU will have to work out how much cash they lose (our net contribution, the value of the tariff differential on our EU trade deficit) as well as the impact of the weaker pound and the increased competitiveness of our exports to the EU whilst EU exporters find their products more expensive and less competitive.
I know many here believe that is the strategy that the EU will employ but I really can’t see them voting for economic recession in the EU (are they that stupid?) just to have a parting shot at the UK. In addition, regardless of what we think of Mr Trump, he does seem to be enthusiastic about a quick Trade Deal with the UK post Brexit and there may well be others (India, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, China, etc,) that might be prepared to move quickly.
So most of the news that I am seeing seems to be helping us with our negotiation position or, if no deal can be done, then we will still be very competitive in Europe and more competitive in the rest of the world.
I am therefore increasing in confidence that we can be OK.
So, from today, SKY news cannot be taken seriously, and should just be called what they have become – the joke uber right wing ‘news’ channel, called FOX news, that is a standing joke in the USA.
To even consider leading with a so-called ‘interview’ of the racist, homophobic president elect of the USA, by a pro brexit uber right wing Tory MP, Michael Gove, is an utter joke, of truly epic proportions.
What next? The leader of the KKK interviews some white supremacists, and finds out they are ‘actually really nice thoughtful guys’.
Jeez, the mainstream media, just seems intent on carrying down the path of irrelevancy.
SKY news – right wing propaganda you can subscribe to. A freaking joke.
Scottish NHS at breaking point
Teacher numbers shredded
Councils funding slashed
Pollution in our cities killing us
Commonwealth games a waste of taxpayers money because we’ve got fat kids
And now Trump is great
We should virtually commit suicide before the SNP do more stuff to us
Who are these folk who say we should be kinder to Unionists to win them over because I do not get that
With every day that passes they shriek this garbage into our faces laughing their heads off as they do it “We control the media Ha Ha”
I’m not one little bit sanguine about this
Really grumpy man….. Bishopbriggs
Imagine planet toryboy newsroom UKOK fury and rage, if junked sterling was all down to Prime Minister Nic Sturgeon. And right now, all new and exciting Donaldo’s crew in Glasgow are busily trying to spin that too.
link to bloomberg.com
I agree with othera above, the NHS in Scotland should definitely be renamed the Scottish health service, as it always previously was, until Thatcher.
The media seem intent, no matter how often it is pointed out, to misleadingly conflate what is happening in England under Tory rule, to what is happening in Scotland.
These things seem trivial, but they really, really matter, otherwise the Tories would not have changed it when they did.
I just wonder why Neil Oliver hates his own country, Scotland, so much. Oh, that’s right, he’s a London loving unionist.
I am therefore increasing in confidence that we can be OK.
Another toryboy Britnat zealot waffles for the UK. Its probably UKOK planet toryboy’s greatest catastrofuck, since Peace in our time sensible.
And yes, we know sensibledave, your Scotland region of greater England is coming with you, kicking and screaming, like the annoying sweaties always do.
If you find your local MP’s contact details on their website, there is a wee form, where you put your details, as they need to confirm you are a constituent. Write to them and ask them to lobby Shona Robertson on rebranding the Scottish NHS. We have to bombard them from MP’s to MSP’s, they will forward any messages to the health minister too. Here’s mine…make it personal and brief, it takes 2 minutes and at least then they have a public pushing them to consider rebranding:
‘Dear Patrick
In light of the media focus on England’s NHS crisis and the constant ‘conflation’ of Scotland’s NHS with this genuine crisis taking place down south. I would like to lobby Patrick to take this up with his colleagues and especially with Shona Robertson to have our Scottish Health service renamed. This is causing untold harm to Scotland’s health service which has an excellent reputation in terms of all targets being well above other NHS services within the UK and allows our NHS to be used as a political football by the opposition parties in the Scottish parliament.
I cannot emphasise enough how this has to be a priority for the SNP to consider. The public is being bombarded by the media and the inference that there is the same crisis occurring within Scotland’s health service is tantamount to ‘fake news’. This needs to be addressed and the one way to ensure that this is corrected is to seriously consider rebranding our health service. Thereby ending this relentless ‘monstering’ of our health service.
I’d appreciate if Patrick could look into this and would suggest that a public consultation is held to test the viability of rebranding as I’m also certain that there is a strong backing for this within Scotland that does not have a voice in the public realm to address the constant ‘misinformation’ that is being fed to the Scottish public by our media.
Yours sincerely’
heedtracker says:
15 January, 2017 at 11:45 pm
“”It just makes you sound like a bunch of yokels.
What if you are a yokel, like me. Yoon culture works, anyway why is it beyond your ken to accept that medics may be lobbying hard right now for more funding, right now, as its getting cut so much anyway?
The medic that Brewer interviewed conceded Scots NHS was stretched but coping. What he really wants is more consultants but that takes a decade at least.””
………….
It I’ll behoves anyone to say something is beyond someone’s ken when they cannot get their head around the use of quotation marks.
I am well aware that doctors at all levels and other medical professionals are lobbying for more money for the NHS particularly in England where they have to make £22 billion of efficiency savings by 2020.
Read my post again. I said there is an element within the senior reaches of the medical profession and in general practice who are not averse to the idea of privatisation of the NHS. They may not come out openly and say so but neither do they wholeheartedly come out in support of the attempts to keep it free at the point of use.
It also takes much longer than 10 years to get to consultant level.
BREXIT TOGETHER. I kid you not. It’s a new cross party organisation. Caroline flint droning on about how we all need to come together on Radio scotland now. Pathetic.
Heedy 10.42
You wrote: “Imagine planet toryboy newsroom UKOK fury and rage, if junked sterling was all down to Prime Minister Nic Sturgeon. And right now, all new and exciting Donaldo’s crew in Glasgow are busily trying to spin that too.”
… not sure I understood all that Heedy but I think you were having a pop at Ms May (a Remainer) and the Tory heartlands (London and South East that voted Remain)?
You need to refocus on the targets for your ire. Post EUref analysis suggests that it was the MIdlands, The north of England, and Wales what won it for the Leavers. May I suggest you work up some new material involving whippets, flat caps, blue collars and ex Welsh miners?
Your current script is looking a bit “post-truth”!
O/T light relief, Aussie press coverage of Murray AO Melbourne win today,
Murray warms to the task
It took Andy Murray two sets to get going on Monday, but the Scot won his first match in a major since becoming world No.1.
TeamGB, rancid The Graun style reportage Murray win,
Andy Murray makes hard work of Illya Marchenko in Australian Open first round
World No1 beats Ukrainian 7-5, 7-6 (7-5), 6-2
Nice. BBC r4 news sports gimps only report Murray score, no match report, focus on some English chap on a yacht, in an ocean somewhere, where it’s windy and wet and very very English BBC.
As Samuel Clements attributed to Disraeli (probably erroneously):
“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
Lots of posters suggesting a rebranding of the Scottish National Health Service.
There is just one wee drawback to this suggestion.
REBRANDS COST MONEY
All the image consultants, focus groups, interested parties who would be involved would have to have their say; there would have to be meetings, meetings about meetings; mock-ups; targeted consultations and so forth – all of which are charged for at top rates. The whole exercise would cost £ millions.
Then, once the new name was decided on, all the ambulances would have to be re-liveried; all the buildings would have to have new name boards outside them; the paperwork headings would all need to be changed.
All of this would be an own goal gift to the red, blue and yellow Tories who would mobilise their friends in the media to point-out that: “at a time when the NHS in Scotland is in crisis, with (insert your own particular first-choice of crisis here) the SNP is wasting £X millions on this pointless re-branding exercise” Or, if you like: SNP Baaaaaddddd!!!!!.
Difficult though it might be, leave well alone, do the re-brand post-Independence.
“Cancer operations cancelled across the UK!” that was the Beeb last night.
@ Meg, gaun yersel hen!
The ex-pat Neil Oliver will already have joined a St Andrew’s Society & ordered a wee kilt & cashmere scarf to match, tartan shoulder bags are available from Amazon.
If Rock’s a Yoon Troll he’s a particularly boring & thick wan. Is he/she Spanner?
Thanks for the Fisheries link Nana, English Labour have their eyes on oor fish!
“and the EU will have to . . .”
“Our Imperial masters have arrived, welcome our Imperial masters”.
Here’s one for our guest:
link to youtube.com
As an independence supporting Brexiteer, I agree with all the points made by Sensible Dave.
I also think that the intervention of Trump has just made independence a lot harder.
With the threat of economic meltdown receding and the chances of EU disintegration increasing I just can’t see the Scottish population warming to NS’s position of love for the EU as a reason for Scotland leaving the U.K.
Trump’s words about nations wanting to maintain their national identity certainly resounded with me and, for the time being, I’d much rather be part of the UK than be a vassal in a German dominated EU.
Oh he’s back trying to ‘drum up’ evidence of ‘anti English’ rhetoric on Wings. Thing is he’s the one who’s describing his fellow Englanders and Welsh in ‘stereotypical’ terms. Arse.
Read my post again. I said there is an element within the senior reaches of the medical profession and in general practice who are not averse to the idea of privatisation of the NHS.
Legerwood, you need to reference your work:D
NHS is privatised and has been since its inception. In Aberdeen, there’s a great way to jump the Q’s
link to bmihealthcare.co.uk
This is not news. This kind of health costs. Consultants here are all NHS too.
You’re only getting close to what may happen, a GP service much like NHS dental health care, paying for a better or extra treatment at the dentist, gold crowns instead of lead:D for example. But then how would that work, extra time in front of your GP for an extra special offer diagnosis?
The medic on the Brewer show was clear, its consultants that are they are short of. Where do they get more of them? Expanding medical schools, like ARI/Aberdeen uni presumably. It all takes at least a decade too. There’s certainly no shortage of clever kids grafting away for 5 A+ Highers.
Clearly its all down to planning, good or bad, and all of it underneath the UKOK vote NO and vote anyone but SNP, BBC led attack propaganda.
Ah Pete, you’re a fake independence supporter, too obvious.
The UK isn’t a ‘country’. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Scotland ‘wanting to maintain our national identity’ ‘fits’ Trumps rhetoric too, but ah note yer ‘blind eye’ tae the obvious.
The daily Record also reports the cancellation of Cancer operations UK wide. Could there be truth in this??
… not sure I understood all that Heedy but I think you were having a pop at Ms May (a Remainer) and the Tory heartlands (London and South East that voted Remain)?
Even that’s a sensibledave lie, sensible. Only London voted Remain. The south east of England is ferocious Leave vote zone.
Why lie like this sensible?
Anyway if youre such a Remain EUphile, why are you desperately trying to spin for Leave and Teresa, UKOK on Scotland here? Or, if Teresa was a Remain, why is she working for hardest Brexit possible?
Need I even ask.
Hmmm.
Worth noting, given the rumours of the PMs speech, that the meeja and party political types will be looking to provoke both yes movement and SNP support into rash speech and/or rash action about now.
They’ll be looking to divide opinion, start arguments in an empty hoose, divert/deflect action and purpose.
When it comes to statements, broadcast ‘news’ or dead tree scrolls, bear in mind their exceptional track record of honesty to date.
Trust only what is a verifiable event or fact. Nothing and no one else.
They want and need SNP bad or ‘mad, bad cybernat’ headlines. This is too important to give them any oxygen at this point.
This SNHS will be a great story for the nasty papers, I could make up the the headlines now
MILLIONS SPENT ON SNP VANITY PROJECT
Millions are to be wasted breaking up our NHS in a re branding exercise, the NHS is to be renamed Jock Care, in a politically motivated move by Sturgeon, the money will be paid for by cutting Nurses Doctors and operations.
At a time when the NHS is in crisis, when thousands can’t get emergency treatment, Sturgeon is giving millions to branding companies!
Ruth Davidson, is livid, and says she will slap Sturgeon next time they meet!
Pete, you are Sensible Dave.
… not sure I understood all that Heedy but I think you were having a pop at Ms May (a Remainer) and the Tory heartlands (London and South East that voted Remain)?
BBC coverage sensible-
The Leave campaign triumphed right across England and Wales, winning in large northern cities including Sheffield, the Welsh valleys, across the Midlands including Birmingham, and the south and east of England.
Dover
Leave 62.2%
40,410 VOTES
Remain 37.8%
24,606 VOTES
Wealden
Leave 54.5%
52,808 VOTES
Remain 45.5%
44,084 VOTES
Sevenoaks
Leave 54.4%
38,258 VOTES
Remain 45.6%
32,091 VOTES
Dartford
Leave 64.2%
35,870 VOTES
Remain 35.8%
Thurrock
Leave 72.3%
57,765 VOTES
Remain 27.7%
Dickhead.
@Pete,
Not sure how you deduce the threat of economic meltdown is receding. Are you ,or have you listened to what Mr Trump actually said. He avoided stating that the UK would be a priority trade partner. Instead of a simple “yes” he started to obfuscate by saying we would be up there.
He knows the difference between yes and no.
In any regard, this has to go before the SENATE and Congress for approval and they may well have different priorities from Mr Trump.
This site is about educating yourself beyond media spin and beyond the headlines.
Neil Oliver should concentrate on getting himself a shampoo, cut and blow-dry. Might take his mind off not getting that MBE for services to the British Establishment; which is what the “BE” in MBE actually means.
Cracked me up every time he said the word “Britain” during the Orkney series – you could feel the bitterness oozing through the speakers on the telly. Poor wee lamb…
robertknight says:
16 January, 2017 at 11:50 am
Neil Oliver should concentrate on getting himself a shampoo, cut and blow-dry.
He’s only a millionaire business man talking and selling to his buyers, like all new and exciting Donaldo in Pacific Quay. Its hard core yoon media culture, selecting loyal Brits only for their British tv shows.
So Oliver’s presenting his loyal Britishness because as long as he’s on the BBC, he’s making stacks of cash. Nothing changes really, 1707 to 2017.
Pete said 11.18
for the time being, I’d much rather be part of the UK than be a vassal in a German dominated EU.
when you obviously meant to say
for the time being, I’d much rather be a vassal in an England dominated UK than be a vassal in a German dominated EU.
See! Wings even provides a free correction service for the hard-of-thinking.
Bob Mack
I look beyond media spin and headlines.
The facts are that since the Brexit vote the stock market has soared and my pension pot has rocketed with it.
In fact, because of the fall of the pound against the dollar, my dollar dominated investments have increased even more allowing me to cash in some great profits.
Certainly, the drop in the pound brings negatives in increased import prices and hikes in the cost of US holidays but after we leave the EU we will have cheaper imported food and, once common sense prevails, I do think the pound will recover. This is therefore a good time to take profits on international stocks.
The point is that all this is not going to convince Scottish voters that it is a good time to pledge themselves to a failing EU that is unable to secure its borders.
We here in Scotland don’t have a big immigration problem but it’s increasing as can be seen by the greater number of niqab wearing women pushing their prams about the streets.
it appears the National is receiving more than its fair share of deluded nutters spouting total pish as per usual i would reply to each of them but dont do facebook any takers with a bit of spare time ?
Pete is a Unionist really.
In fact I reckon he and SD work in the same office of whichever Dept or Agency employs them.
Trump threatens Bmw with 35% import tarrif.
Germanys reply..
link to archive.is
The uk media report on Gove Saying we are at front of queue for trade deal which will be ttitp on steriods and likely involve privitision of the nhs.
is this pete or bob mac at 12,06 ? its hard to tell please make it clear who the quote is from thanks .
The stock market has soared only because the pound is falling. We know that and we also know it will not last forever. The stock market will eventually fall too as investors pull out and short sellers cash in.
Your further comments disgust me totally and perhaps you would be better on “Britain First” with your posts, you hideous creature.
No Pete sounds like a selfish man.
My vote is for Scottish Health, encompassing both branches of the caring services
“We here in Scotland don’t have a big immigration problem but it’s increasing as can be seen by the greater number of niqab wearing women pushing their prams about the streets.”
Why is this an immigration problem Pete?
Is this Dickhead Day in Scotland?
One of the the whole points of free country UK, is the right to wear whatever you like. But not nothing though. Ask the naked rambler.
heedtracker @ 11.30 am
Couple of references for you.
GPs and charging
link to pulsetoday.co.uk.
link to iea.org.uk
Note: junior doctors are all doctors below consultant level.
Re training more doctors. There are limits on the number of doctors that can be trained. Partly it is due to the format their training takes at University – the New Medical Curriculum introduced in the 1990s. This changed they way doctors were taught from being massed in lecture halls to being taught in small groups led by a facilitator. In the early years the facilitators could be drawn from non-medical life sciences departments but later years require medical people. GPs, Hospital Consultants as well as teaching members of the medical faculty.
For a University such as Glasgow with an annual intake of 240 into the medical faculty this would require 24 members of staff to lead the small groups as facilitators.
Once graduated the first years in hospital require a high level of supervision from existing senior medical staff and continued input from Universities.
Training places for newly qualified doctors also have to meet certain criteria and not all hospitals can offer such places in all disciplines within all hospitals. Therefore the availability of clinical places is another limiting factor in how many doctors can be trained at any given time.
Gordon Brown increased the number of doctors being trained each year by around 3,500. He did this in part by opening medical schools in universities that did not have them. Given what I have said above about the input from other departments in Universities into teaching medical undergraduates then it is unlikely that every university can support a medical faculty therefore this may not be a route that can be used again.
Another factor affecting supply of doctors is gender and the changing demands that places on work practices. Most medical faculties have a 50:50 split male to female undergraduates and some have a greater female to male ratio. This ultimately impacts on the working patterns and career progression post graduation. The medical profession saw this coming some time ago but have not been wholly successful in addressing it.
All of the various NHSs in the UK draw from a common pool of medical professionals and anything that impacts on recruitment and retention in one NHS will have an impact on the others at some point down the road when it comes to filling vacancies. For example, the junior doctors contract dispute in NHS England led to an increase in doctors looking to move overseas. There are lots of other examples many of which are outweigh the control of the devolved governments to influence eg credit.
There, chew on that. I am off to clean my windows
Re;Meg merilees@6.54am
Well said Meg. Also, the SNP mitigating the bedroom tax, keeping the ILF, EMA, and many other things they are doing to cushion the blows from WM unionists, to our poorest and most vulnerable.
People forget that when the UK removes money from peoples pockets, it has a knock on effect. It affects local economies, and the wider economy as well.
If the SNP allowed austerity to really bite, as WM unionists would like them to do, we would be seeing things rapidly going downhill. As it is, things are really improving within communities with all of the work being done to engage people, and empower them. That is counter to the unionists agenda, which is why they try to create divide and to brainwash people into believing that they would be worse off in an independent Scotland.
To mitigate WM austerity, build new infrastructure and affordable homes, and invest in people and in the environment, is a huge feat, against huge odds. Oh and yes, my bro can’t get his bus pass until he is 64, in NE england.
Women who do not have time to read online blogs/news are more likely to ignore and be brain washed by the media. I wonder if the subtlely of media bias, (sometimes not so subtle) is actually aimed at women specifically. Psychology and all that. Some I know, sorry, most women I know, avoid political discussion, which I find hugely frustrating.
As an aside.
Sometimes, looking around our capital city, I wonder what is going on. This union isn’t making Edinburgh look particularly prosperous to me, there are lots of empty shops and empty office buildings in and around the city centre. Sometimes you look up, and see a sea of, to rent and for sale signs. Same in the Newtown, lots of large properties for sale or to let, of late, hmm quite perplexing, not sure this union is a good thing for Scotland when the chips are down. 🙁
O/T
Power-sharing collapses in Northern Ireland, after Sinn Fein refuse to return to Stormont executive
link to archive.is
Pete,
Immigration isn’t a problem its a opportunity.
As for pensions the average pension fund fell by 2.5% in January 2016, its worst performance in the opening month of the year since 2009. 17% of pension funds posted positive growth in January, with some funds falling by as much as 20%. The last time pension fund performance made a worse start to the year was back in January 2009, when the average pension fund fell by 3.5%.
So well done Pete, you are on of the 17%
As for cheaper food grocery inflation now stands at 0.2 % over the 12 weeks to January 1, Premier Foods are in negotiations with the supermarkets about raising prices of its products, The sector has been warning that prices will have to go up to cover higher costs as a result of a weaker pound.
The pound has hit its lowest level for more than three months on reports Britain was set to quit the EU single market as part of its Brexit plans. Sterling fell below the $1.20 level before recovering slightly The pound also dropped to a two-month low against the euro, falling more than 1% to 1.13 euros in Asian trading. The pound has fallen about 20% against the dollar since June’s EU referendum, to lows last regularly seen in 1985.
Much of that volatility has been due to uncertainty about the economic impact if the UK gives up its tariff-free access to the EU.
Spin your racist pro brexit shit elsewhere.
Well that made little sense, I meant ‘are more likely to ignore facts put in front if them’.
I like SHS. Keeps it simple and clear.
Will re-branding it annoy the nipples off the unionists…probably…but that is just a bonus.
heedtracker s11:45 am
You Wrote: “The Leave campaign triumphed right across England and Wales, winning in large northern cities including Sheffield, the Welsh valleys, across the Midlands including Birmingham, and the south and east of England.”
and then kindly added the comment “Dickhead”
I keep forgetting just how dumb you can be Heedy and forget to make allowances for that lack of intellect.
So, I will go slowly to give you a chance to keep up …. For the whole area generally identified geographically as London and the South East – the Vote was approx 55/45 in favour of “Remain”. As in Scotland there were, of course, constituencies that were not “average” in representing the “whole of London and the south east” (over 18 million voters Heedy).
Have you got that now Heedy? …. Dickhead!
So, when you and Robert Peffers do your Tory boy, London centric, “Little Englander” stuff, please bear in mind that the majority of 18 million voters in London and the South East voted “remain”.
On the other hand I don’t expect you will because it jars with everything you hold to be true. But please understand, when you next write such silliness (which will be in about 5 minutes) you and I will both know you are speaking in a post truth, fake news sort of way.
Well Nana Theresa will make their exit decision for them!
@ indyref2, thanks for the Imperial Masters clip. Sadly most of the cast are no longer with us! 🙂
One good news for pensions is that if you have a guaranteed return, some very big offers are being made too buy out the liabilities, this is because the investments will not meet the liabilities attached to that type of pension.
Re food price inflation
It seems like hyperbole to say that Brexit could make all British people poorer. But data came out this week showing that is starting to come true.
link to uk.businessinsider.com
@Legerwood says: 15 January, 2017 at 11:34 pm:
“If you are serious about converting NO voters to YES then a good place to start might be to stop referring to them as ‘yoons’.
It just makes you sound like a bunch of yokels”
That particular point of view, Legerwood, depends upon your own personal opinion of what comprises a Yoon and what is a voter you want to convert.
Now personally I class Yoons as committed and dedicated Unionists and those I seek to convert to voting for independence are very unlikely to be Yoons.
Just as there are many thousands of voters who vote for independence parties who are not indy activists there are thousands who vote for the unionist parties for many diverse reasons.
Our chances of converting actual Yoons are somewhere in the region between zero and -100% so it doesn’t matter a jot if they are rather upset at being referred to as Yoons.
There is, though very good reasons to believe we may indeed be succeeding in converting voters who vote for the unionist parties for reasons such as habit, “Ah’ve aye voted Labour like ma faither an ma faither’s faither”. types, and the, “Ah aye voted Labour ‘cos they’re the pairty o the workin class”. or perhaps, “Ah vote Labour kis they stand fir hame rule fir Scotland”. and other such like voters are not Yoons.
They are simply misled and brainwashed voters you may, if we can get them to engage and discuss things with us, get the facts that have been denied to them or been distorted with Yoon lies corrected.
It is almost impossible to get a Yoon to even discuss politics with what they class as a hated evil Cybernat.
Now if that POV makes me a, “Yokel”, then so be it.
You do know what a Yokel is, don’t you, Legerwood?
The definition is :-
“a person living in a rural area; rustic; country bumpkin: a contemptuous term,”
So, yes I was born in a farm cottage and I live in a semi-rural area and if you consider me a country bumpkin it may be because you are a cockney, (go look the origin of that one up).
Up to about twenty years ago I beleieved that papers by enlarge told a story because they believed it in the best interests of the country and that was their political line.
That as a concept is gone, if it ever existed, the papers and the bbc misinform Scots on a monumental scale and they know it, (hope you are reading this Donalda!).
Now a days it’s as simple as following the money and the ownership and you will see whom the story beneficiary is.
That May, Gove,Davidson and yes Corbyn, Dugdale and their motley crew have their noses in trough and are joined at the hip with the bbc and press, should not suprise anyone.
There, chew on that. I am off to clean my windows.
Try your specs too.
link to iea.org.uk just another far right tory outfit. Andrew Neil’s research gimps first point of tory reference.
Just like link to taxpayersalliance.com
And Legerwood, you don’t train consultants. They are not GP’s. They are hospital medics and when they have enough single field experience, they can then go for a consultancy.
Ask your own GP, shrink etc. Do you want to keep free at point access public healthcare in teamGB?
See how far you get:D
Socrates MacSporran wrote on 16 January, 2017 at 11:00 am:
“Lots of posters suggesting a rebranding of the Scottish National Health Service.There is just one wee drawback to this suggestion.REBRANDS COST MONEY”
No shit Sherlock! And what price would you put on what we as a country are losing every day into Westmiddens very deep pockets?
This is about creating and crafting the Scotland we want to live in and speaking up when we see something wrong.
Did you not read the part of the article above which tells us about deliberate dodgy figures for the purposes of deception? Well, the name our health service has been given is no accident and it was foisted upon us by Tories.
As things stand the corrupt BUM can, without much effort, report murky waters when it comes to health issues, that gives them a very potent weapon for project fear and smear. We need to take steps to render their arsenal inert.
And it wouldn’t happen overnight, it would all be gradually phased in. We need to start using what we’ve got to live as though we already are independent wherever and whenever possible.
You can’t get any better reasons for change than those.
BTW, everything related to politics costs money, if we used money as an excuse every time we had an idea we might as well give up on life. As for the BUM media going into meltdown if a re-brand took place…well…let the laughs begin.
😉
Pete said 11.18
for the time being, I’d much rather be part of the UK than be a vassal in a German dominated EU.
“for the time being”
What exactly do you mean by that?
“rather be”
Oooookay, but why?
“German”
Sorry, at this point the klaxon went off.
Have a good day. 🙂
Stoker
When winning the battle, best not award the enemy with another stick to beat you with!
Don’t waste your time on re branding the SNHS it will not happen till after independence IMHO.
@Legerwood says: 15 January, 2017 at 11:34 pm:
“If you are serious about converting NO voters to YES then a good place to start might be to stop referring to them as ‘yoons’.
It just makes you sound like a bunch of yokels”
That particular point of view, Legerwood, depends upon your own personal opinion of what comprises a Yoon, what is a Yokel and what is a voter who you want to convert.
Now personally I class Yoons as committed and dedicated Unionists and those I seek to convert to voting for independence are very unlikely to be actual Yoons, and a Yoon I consider to be committed Unionist Activist
Just as there are many thousands of voters who vote for independence parties who are not indy activists, or party members of an independence supporting party, there are thousands who vote for the unionist parties for many other diverse reasons. These voters are not Yoons.
Our chances of converting actual Yoons are somewhere in the region between zero and -100% so it doesn’t matter a jot if they are rather upset at being referred to as Yoons. In fact, as I an pleased to be thought an Evil Cybernat, I assume the Yoon to be pleased to be regarded as such.
There is, though very good reasons to believe we may indeed be succeeding in converting voters who vote for the unionist parties for reasons such as habit, “Ah’ve aye voted Labour like ma faither an ma faither’s faither”. types, and the, “Ah aye voted Labour ‘cos they’re the pairty o the workin class”. or perhaps, “Ah vote Labour kis they stand fir hame rule fir Scotland”. and other such like voters are not Yoons.
They are simply misled and brainwashed voters you may, if we can get them to engage and discuss things with us, get the facts that have been denied to them or been distorted with Yoon lies corrected.
It is almost impossible to get a Yoon to even discuss politics with what they class as a hated evil Cybernat.
Now if that POV makes me a, “Yokel”, then so be it.
You do know what a Yokel is, don’t you, Legerwood?
The definition is :-
“a person living in a rural area; rustic; country bumpkin: a contemptuous term,”
So, yes I was born in a farm cottage and I live in a semi-rural area and if you consider me a country bumpkin it may be because you are a cockney, (go look the origin of that one up).
Who exactly do the Labour Party in Scotland think they talk for? They are reduced to being the third party in Scotland one Westminster m.p. Their opinion is of no interest to most people at all don’t they realize they have have been found out for the rouges they are
@Nana
‘But data came out this week showing that is starting to come true.’
Don’t I just know it. Prices across the board are rising in anticipation. The print industry, for instance, has seen costs sky rocket. Paper, inks, chemistry, plates, anything sourced from Europe, a goodly number are into double figure percentage rises already.
The dosh in your pocket is merely the tip of the iceberg. I posted this elsewhere, but it seem appropriate:
There is no such thing as a safe pension under Conservative government. There is no such thing as safe and inalienable human rights under the proposed BBoR. I could go on in the shape and number of services and subsidies which will be ‘under review’ come 2020, or the constitutional changes which will be visited upon all of us through Brexit, but you get the point.
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
link to en.wikipedia.org
To be blunt. If you vote to have your human rights removed, your taxes abused and put your future, your familiy’s future in the hands of a system which doesn’t give a shit whether you live or die, then you are a living example of a turkey voting for Christmas.
Make NO MISTAKE, the economy of the UK, where it concerns the majority, is going to tank and the austerity we’ve suffered through since the 2008 crash will be as nothing compared to what comes next for the poor, the working class and even lower middle classes. Government will ensure that the economy is just peachy for anyone beyond those pay scales right enough. If you earn enough or are born with enough readies you’ll have rights too. Isn’t trickle down a wonderful system?
As for betterthegithers wee helpers themselves? They have absolutely no right to EVER lecture any supporter of YES Scotland on fear and intimidation, not after their frankly evil campaign of 2014. The effects of that campaign strategy, the actions of BTs political class, HMG and their media will be felt for decades to come in our society. It was the politics of the sewer and they know it. It is still practised to this very day. It was and IS beneath contempt.
I’d say most folks are done ‘playing’ at politics. I’d say they’re sick to the back teeth of games, strategies, triangulation and manipulation. To paraphrase a movie quote, I feel a great swell of pity for the poor soul who comes to the public looking to cause mischief at this time. We’re up to our necks in the UK’s greatest act of self fucking harm in living memory and facing life under one of the most reactionary, self obsessed, societally divisive, true blue tory governments since Thatcher.
THAT is the reality.
Help, or get out of the way. (ends)
Thinking of the NHS in Scotland (although also likely across the UK) Something needs done about these consultants that are bleeding the NHS dry and the ill population.
My wife had breast cancer, at that time we were under a BUPA contract so we could take her private. The service was good, and it should be. But what I found out was that the consultants that work through the private centres also work in the NHS.
They are making fortunes, in my case all work carried out privately, and the bills accrued came to me, so I saw the costs after every visit. I then sent them to my insurers to pay, which they did.
These costs were very high, my estimation at the time was around a £100,000 total. It was easy to see how these were rattled up.
One that came through stuck in my throat when I saw it, even though it was being being paid via the insurance cover.
I took my wife on this day, as I did all others for an after treatment check. As I waited she went in to the doctor after waiting a while. When she came out, she explained that the doctor asked he how she was feeling.
She told the doctor she felt washed out after all the chemo and radium she had to endure. The doctor said she could expect that, and another check appointment was made for either 6 months or a year ahead, can’t remember now which it was. However she was 10-15 min with the doctor.
When the bill came through I took particular notice of the cost and it was £250, for the 10-15 min chat, no treatment.
I thought that was extortion. I still do.
So the consultants get the bulk of that and the BuPA hospital the rest.
These are the same consultants that also are working in our NHS, I would like to know what they also earn from them.
They are making money both ways here and reduce their NHS workings to satisfy their BUPA clients, nice if you can get it.
Point is they are creaming the system and collecting huge fees for doing so. We need something better than this.
I was lucky I had the cover at the time, but the cancer came back after a few years and my wife died of it, we had to go to the SNHS, which was an altogether other story.
Sheesh!
Listening to the debate in Stormont and reading up on the situation…
No resolution to the stalemate re First Minister/Deputy First Minister.
Things are SO bad for GP’s that they have said if an election is called, it will inevitably result in a new package failing to be implemented in time. This will cause them to vote to leave the N Ireland Health Service en masse!!! As a result patients will have to pay for treatment in the same way as those in the Republic now do.
Re last post, these costs were over 10 years ago, I shudder to think what their charges are now.
@ Socrates MacSporran wee question here did the re branding of the Devolved Scottish Assembly cause the unionist some discomfort . I wonder why the SNP did that, the Scottish Health Service should have a distinct re branding, people identify NHS as a so called UK health service.
Anything positive that gets up the nose of Westminster is a positive.
I’m glad you’re finding yourself personally better of Pete, but the UK is a nett importer of goods rather than an exporter. The UK on 2016 figures is 76% self sufficient in food, but that’s if you include Scotland, (you know, that poor we subsistence part of the country with 30% of the UK beef herd, 20% of the UK sheep herd, and 20% of the UK potatoes). The weak pound benefits exporters because people abroad find goods cheaper to buy, but by the same formula, people who import goods find the pound cannot buy what it used to and EVERYTHING which is imported becomes more expensive. And that’s before WTO tariffs come into play.
I’m glad the UK has the US bailing it out over its Brexit stupidity, but if it was me, I’d be having a close look at whether that stopgap Trade Deal Trump is talking about is a strangely charitable American billionaire, or a reheated version of the TTIP Trade Deal which sought to do away with so many regulations on big business. Maybe food laws, GM crops and beef on steroids doesn’t bother you either. Maybe fewer constraints on banks will suit you too, and who cares about the environment and shrinking Ice caps if you never personally visit eh?
Labour standards and Employment rights are less onerous in the US, and this caused concern when Europe was resisting TTIP because it meant work would move to America, but hey, once the rUK has driven down its labour standards and employment levels to Dickensian levels again, I’m sure that won’t be a concern.
You can also forget about the NHS under TTIP, even the Scottish NHS if Scotland is dragged down by Westminster, because some of the biggest movers and shakers behind TTIP were American Healthcare and Insurance companies who wanted to open up and exploit Europe’s public health and services so it’s more like the US.
“Doctor say he’s coming, but you gotta pay with cash”.
I hope rUK is fine post Brexit. I sincerely do. Good luck to them. I mean good luck to “them” because Scotland’s place is in Europe, thoroughly engaged with European integration, free trade and liberal movement of people, progressive idealism, and social responsibility.
Europe doesn’t pollute my world with banal propaganda, it doesn’t seek to subjugate my Nation’s sovereign credentials, it doesn’t seek to put its own interests above my own, it doesn’t embarrass me by bombing innocent people in illegal wars or assassinating them without trial or defence by drone strike.
When I think about Europe, Angela Merkal vexed at the difficulty and threatened by the instability caused by refugees, and yet its commendable attitude towards the immigration which the UK did so much to set in motion then abdicate any responsibility for helping those afflicted by the carnage, I think about John F Kennedy sending men to the Moon.
“We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone,….”
I’m a European citizen Pete. There is a marriage looming between Scotland and the whole continent of Europe and I will it to happen with all my strength. Brexit is the result the greedy manipulators wanted, the money men with obscene amounts of capital embezzled from the masses with the complicity of corrupt politicians lining up for cushy directorships and assured lives of unending privilege. They didn’t want European investigators looking at their small print and compelling them to conduct their affairs with honesty and integrity.
I’m a European, and I’m fecking staying one. Tout your Brexit ideals somewhere else please, because I find them offensive and your logic faulty.
Oh yeah, maybe ask Mr Trump whether the Trade Deal he’s talking about includes F35 fighters.
So that’s 3 diversions for birthings at Scottish hospitals out of 54,485, (according to the pdf of A National Statistics Publication for Scotland
Information Services Division
Publication Report
Births in Scottish Hospitals)
That presented as a percentage is 0.0055061%
So SNP fail to provide expectant mother’s first choice of hospital for delivery in 0.0055061% of cases in 2016
Not quite the same as what the Sunday Times headline, eh?
More importanty when will this type of journalism be questioned in the Commons at PMQ’s?
O/T A few links
link to news.gov.scot
link to politico.eu
Theresa May’s speech to warn EU of risk of giving UK a raw Brexit deal
link to archive.is
link to yournewswire.com
Hey ho bbc
link to twitter.com
Bbc news Hugh Pym.. NHS England 61 Management referral committee’s between England & Wales overruling GPs decisions as to best treatment for their patents . People having to go private to have their operations & in all probability by a NHS surgeon.
Note no such Management Committee’s in Scotland & Nth Ireland
The Advan has already stopped at Pacific Quay where it had a run-in with the Police
link to informscotland.com
link to informscotland.com
Indeed so, Meg.
The USA electoral system is a big con job.
The democratic votes of the people are not what elects the President on the USA but the votes of their electoral and that cannot be democratic.
In the election the winner got less votes from voters than the loser.
link to worldatlas.com
I liked the rebranding to the “Scottish Healthcare Service”.
The reason for this rebrand is to highlight the merging of Health and Care in Scotland.
Regarding cost, this can be minimal if the new branding is simply put on replacement supplies, as and when these are ordered.
I’m sure britnats at Westminster will love being back in control in Northern Ireland?!
Breeks @ 1.15
I’ll second that – well done!
Andrew McLean on 16 January, 2017 at 12:59 pm:
No doubt you’ll be right Andrew but we’ll never know unless we give it a go.
__________
Meg Merrilees:
I’ve just about finished some work on my security system so as soon as i do that i’ll try and use the time to have a discussion on ‘Fact Cards’ over on O/T. That’s if nothing goes (((BOOM))) 😀
Cartoon in the Independent today which gives a clue to May’s mind-set.
The brickie reminds me of someone. Hhhmmm.. 🙂
Archive didn’t take it properly.
link to independent.co.uk
@John Young
Thanks John.
Excellent reason for the rebranding. Saved me the post.
Lets write/email our MSPs as already upthread but link this also with the Advan/poster campaign on the State Propaganda too.
The game is afoot and winnable.
John Young wrote on 16 January, 2017 at 1:41 pm:
“I liked the rebranding to the “Scottish Healthcare Service”.”
Great minds and all that John, was your idea also inspired by galamcennalath suggestion at 10:02 am?
The Scottish Healthcare Service is my new preference.
The love-in between britnats and Trump continues to grow. It can only help the independence movement in Scotland.
Who’s the “Pete” chappie/chapette posting in uber macho Tory rake it in terms above?
A spawn of Teresa May on Thatcherite mega steroids seasoned with a dose of Brit Brexiteer gangster bravado?
Looks like the Blessed Teresa is about to kick off on a hard EU Brexit asap, “Petie”. Best you cash in your fiat dosh “savings” very pronto mon freur/ma soeur, before the bawbees tank into the oblivion beyond the purported hallowed sanctity of the gunboat Butcher’s Apron “invincibility” in all things white and stiff upper lipped Anglo Saxon/Norman hybrid immigrant “hoo hah!” mimicking of the Yoosa marines faux hard men’s music hall goombah routine.
Best to bung the stuff under under a soon to be urine soaked, Union Jack patterned, cheap mattress as the Yookay swamps down the Sawnee?
Wotcha fink, Petrus aka Rock (though, I posit, not our beloved, regular poster under the latter handle)?
You got enough of your gelt to toughen out the Armageddon incoming? Or is it all a hollow posture?
Ian S Sanderson @ 1.07 pm .
Liked the bit at 13.46 of Parliament TV about BOOTS profits
My March 2017 tabloid headline prediction:
“Collectors pay hundreds for rare 13 sided 1 pound coin”
A royal mint spokesman says a rare production fault caused a small number of the new 12 sided one pound coins to have 13 sides. Millions of brits are staring at the new coins yesterday in case they have a valuable coin.
A man said:”i always check my change carefully in case i have a 13 sided pound coin, it could be worth billions on ebay”.
heedtracker says:
16 January, 2017 at 12:41 pm
“”And Legerwood, you don’t train consultants. They are not GP’s. They are hospital medics and when they have enough single field experience, they can then go for a consultancy.””
To reach the point where you can be put on the specialist register and thus apply for consultant posts doctors have to have a completion of training certificate.
Training to reach consultant level as well as having depth of experience in their chosen specialism also includes progressing through the post-graduation examinations which start with the Membership exams and progresses through the Specialist Fellowship exams. All of these exams have a time component in them, that is you cannot sit them one after another but must have the requisite years of experience before you can sit them. That experience has to be gained in recognised teaching hospitals and in posts that have been inspected to ensure the required range of experience is delivered.
This takes manyy years post-graduation and probably involves several moves. It also costs a lot of money in exam fees.
There is now a category called Junior Consultant, which was one of the outcomes of the Modernising Medical Careers exercise in the noughties. Junior Consultants still need to be supervised by a Senior Consultant.
The Pulse may very well be a right-wing publication. Do you really believe there are no right-wing medical practitioners?
@ Nana – so sad to hear that Dr Udo Ulfkotte has died. Exposing CIA manipulation of Western media is probably not the smartest health move. RIP.
link to yournewswire.com
Listened this morning (BBC R4 after 8.00am) to Michael Gove talking about the interview he had with Donald Gump. It was hard to think of another occasion when i have heard someone SO gullible taking SO effusively about how he has been completely “gullibled” . What I mean is:-
Michael Gove is SO thick that it sounds as if he has totally fallen for everything Trump said to him, hook line and non-thinker and he sounded SO amateur… in fact he sounded like a teenager who has just taken a selfie with the idol of their dreams.
How can Grovel think for one minute that any deal the US of A makes with little Britain will be a beneficial one for Toryland! Yet he sounded like the kid who has unexpectedly just passed all his exams – unbelievably excited… about what?
Trump is a business man, he brokers deals ALL the time and he brokers deals that suit his business dealings. He knows a sucker when he sees one and he realises that T May will need friends – so will Donald, he’s not daft. Yes, he’ll be right in there with an offer, you bet!
GM food,
Private Healthcare – great, that solves Teresa’s the problem of the NHS England and she can always say it was his idea (plus, looks like it’s heading that way in N ireland already), Fracked oil – here already,
Monsanto chemicals,
Trident missiles
but it will all be on HIS terms and it will be a race to the bottom.
It takes a lot to come across as more stupid than Nigel Farage but the photo of Trump and Gove standing there, ‘thumbs up’, is a strong contender.
link to bbc.co.uk
Thank goodness we have Mike Russell on our negotiating side and we’re not walking around with our eyes wide shut.
We’ll drink a drink a drink
To Donald the Trump the Trump the Trump
The saviour of the UKOK face.
For he invented post truth Politics
Most efficacious in every case.
“I am not a Politician I’m gonna do. I gotta do what I gotta do…But I’m not happy with the Iran deal, I think it’s one of the worst deals ever made, I’m think it’s one of the dumbest deals I’ve ever seen…Where you give …$150 billion back to a country, where you give 1.7 billion in cash. Did you ever seen $100 million in hundred dollar bills? It’s a lot. 1.7 billion in cash. Plane loads. Many planes. Boom. 1.7 billion. I don’t understand. I think that money is in Swiss bank accounts.”
Good Luck with your trade deal Mrs May, but Gove says “its going to be you know so good, biggest ever, you will be amazed how good it is going to be, the biggest deal ever just you guys see, so so good!”
Mr Gove was appointed US trade advisory after the meeting.
The Financial Times and IDA Ireland are running a Financial Forum in Dublin Castle (Irony. This was the absolute seat of British Power in Ireland) on 24th January. 800 delegates expected.
link to live.ft.com
Happy Burns Night next day. Watch the exchange rates!
Pity there is no presence there from the Scottish Central Bank….. Maybe next time?
Meg merrilees:
Better late than never,
“While Europe’s eye is fix’d on mighty things
The fate of empires and the fall of kings;
While quacks of State must each approve his plan,
And even children lisp the Rights of Man;
Amid this mighty fuss just let me mention,
The Rights of Woman merit some attention”
ROBERT BURNS
Peace Always
Jack Collatin.
Yes its strange that Bennie takes a swipe at the Scottish NHS at a time when the English NHS is getting hammered by the MSM, of course its just coincidental. Bennie also stated in the Daily Express in Dec 2014 that the Scottish NHS was only functioning because “of the goodwill of the staff`, yet two years on our NHS is the best performer in the UK. I wonder what Bennie`s politics are?
Stoker says at 1:56 pm
John Young wrote
“I liked the rebranding to the “Scottish Healthcare Service”.”
Great minds and all that John, was your idea also inspired by galamcennalath suggestion at 10:02 am?
———————–
Yes, completely, the only wee additional point I was making was that cost concerns should not be a barrier.
BBC Radio Scotland
Sherlock fantastic finale, worth millions to bbc, BBC spares no expense on production.
In the real world Sherlock finale watched by smallest audience in show’s history.
link to archive.is
The point is that since taxpayers in Scotland contribute more per head than anywhere else, this failure to make Mr Homes appealing surely falls at the feet of Nicola Sturgeon!
Ref Stoker @12 50 pm
I agree we need to extrapolate our wonderful Scottish Health Service from being confused with the NHS Engerland.
Many years ago, I queried, the cost of regular rebranding of a brewery chain in London.
Charringtons 3 year’s later Bass then Bass Charrington then Bass Worthington et al.
All tax deductible and bingo smart new liveried vehicles
Uniforms etc. Which were needing upgraded anyway.
Don’t know if it would still be do-able, but maybe worthwhile.
@ Socrates MacSporran
Andrew McLean
You are of course right, a re-branding will involve costs.
But these costs are already partly incurred on a daily basis. Hospitals/clinics/practices come or go, are merged, moved to other properties. Logistical problems.
Different consultants, stationary, new signs, repairs and dozens of different things…!
Things that change like logos/pantones etc. on paperwork need to be centralised just as they are at the moment but actually used when the time comes for a reprint.
In other words, some things will be needed quickly, others spread over a longer period of time.
Therefore the EXTRA costs required will be a lot less than a Big Bang complete change-over.
What will be invaluable is the PR publicity effect.
The Tories, BLiS and the other mob will probably be foaming at the mouth and screaming blue murder but what the change will do is drive home to every man, woman and child in Scotland and “abroad” that there is a seperate Health Service in Scotland as well as in Wales, NI and England.
It will force the Unionists to either keep schtumm and hope folk won’t notice or scream it from the rooftops and really make it well known.
The Health Service belongs to the “Top” topics like pensions etc.
Either way we win. 🙂
Brexit: Chlorine-soaked chickens will be on sale in UK if US gets its own way in trade deal, Nick Clegg warns
link to archive.is
I have posted warnings about this a few times over the last week.
Lots of US foods are banned by the EU as not fit for human consumption because of all the chemicals and drugs used.
One thing we definitely do not want to do is water down our EU based food standards.
Cactus…link to bbc.co.uk
Seems they’ve noticed the billboard.
It looks lovely!
Beeb claiming that half a million watch Reporting Scotland daily…Really?
Nice one!.
link to archive.is
What a great picture,
link to informscotland.com
@ Breeks, on the ball today kid. Good stuff! Oor tottie production is partly seed, also so top dollar!
@ Legerwood, I had the great privilege to count a former editor of the Pulse as a friend, a humane guy/physician/surgeon/GP & certainly no right-winger. When the letters page was a bit slack he invented a Highland doctor named MacP? to throw in a grenade & liven things up! 🙂
Lol, sorry mike, not with it today.
YEP meg they have noticed and their comment of the most trusted outlet for news would be laughable if it wasnt more of the same pish as they usually churn out this lot can’t take the hint and are beyond fixing i would rather trust RT than them any day .
hi all if anyone would like to know our advan routes please go to
http://www.informscotland.com website where you will find all the routes for the rest of the week.
Don’t forget to get your car stickers and take your camera and get a selfie with our BBC is misreporting Scotland poster. If you see our advan out and about give him a hoot of your car horn, I’m sure the driver would appreciate the support!
Thanks to you good people this campaign would never have happened, once again your support for us has been exceptional.
I must, I fear, return to one of my favourite quotes:
“When you’re up to your arse in alligators, it is difficult to remember, you are supposed to be draining the swamp”
We Wingers and the others in the Independence movement are supposed to be draining Scotland from the swamp of Westminster sleeze, shite and subjugation. Getting us out of this God-forsaken Union has to be the single, over-riding priority.
The alligators we are fighting are: The Tories, be they traditional, blue, red or yellow, not forgetting the purple people eaters of UKIP.
These are the big alligators, but, they also have a tribe of lesser alligators, who cannot do as-much harm but make a lot more noise – the BBC, ITV, Sky, the Daily Heil, the Torygraph, the Times, etc – the massed ranks of the BUMs
They set the agenda. They can hide our salient points, mis-represent us, ignore our complaints, carry-on regardless when their lies are exposed, but, still we have to fight them.
Re-branding our health service might be a good idea, but, in the current climate, when the alligators and jackals are ever-ready to scream: SNP BAAAAADDDDD at everything we do or suggest, spending money on a re-bramding would be, if not an own-goal, at least cracking one against our own cross-bar, with no idea what might happen with the rebound.
Given that they have the story on the BBC website, I wonder if BBC Scotland has the balls to run with the story on Reporting Scotland tonight, I doubt it.
If not, it only shows that they believe they do have something to hide.
Bravo Socrates 3:13 pm
I suppose they will make their last stand in the Cayman Islands.
From thoughtcontrolscotland “Reporting Scotland” is now watched by less than 5% of Scots! & “Good Morning Scotland” is listened to by less than 2%!
Is this true or were the figures provided by the BBC?
Graf Midgehunter says:
16 January, 2017 at 2:47 pm
@ Socrates MacSporran
Gaelic road signs anyone?
This is still claimed to cost millions, its a propaganda windfall for Ruth who canny tell the truth, we need no distractions, no own goals, we are possibly 18 months away from Indyref2, every single thing will be blown out of scale, all you need is one mistake, one SNHS bad, twisted into SNP bad and the blame will be put at the cost of re-branding
Costs associated with a rebranding of the NHS in Scotland need not be expensive. As John Young has pointed out headed stationary ect need only be changed as the old is used and new stocks are required.
The great majority of ambulances for example do not display an NHS logo and instead use their proper title of “Scottish Ambulance Service” and their own logo of a St Andrews Cross topped with a crown. Changing a logo on a webpage would cost nothing at all.
There will of course be some costs but I believe it is a price worth paying, the publicity generated would leave few in doubt that the NHS in Scotland is entirely separate form the rest of the UK and that funding is the responsibility of the SG and more importantly that it is far out performing other parts of the UK.
Lets face it attacks on our NHS, our police and our teachers are only going to get worse IMO no matter what is done. Raising public awareness no matter if the publicity is “bad” has merits of it’s own.
I also like the idea of dropping the word National, the “Scottish Healthcare Service” sounds good to me too.
Just read this on the informscotland website,
‘That left us with ClearChannel, who agreed to run the fixed billboards, but only in a slightly revised format, which turns our statement “BBC Is Misreporting Scotland” into “Is the BBC Misreporting Scotland?”’
I have to say I actually prefer the change, it asks a question, it is more likely to make people think when they watch Reporting Scotland.
Fred says:
16 January, 2017 at 3:06 pm
“”@ Legerwood, I had the great privilege to count a former editor of the Pulse as a friend, a humane guy/physician/surgeon/GP & certainly no right-winger. When the letters page was a bit slack he invented a Highland doctor named MacP? to throw in a grenade & liven things up! ?””
…………..
Re the Pulse: I was only going by what heedtracker said.
I figured if I used the Daily Mail or the Sun as references he might have gone into meltdown. From a very quick look at the Pulse before posting the link I did not get the impression that it was particularly right wing but rather broad in its subject matter.
Sorry folks, missed out the link for the BBC figures & much else from Prof’ Robertson,
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
A “re-brand” of anything in the run-up to indyref2 isn’t a great idea.
In terms of “NHSDoom” – despite the figures most people I know here in England are just bored of it all. The “dire warnings” happen every year so its wolf-calling territory again isn’t it?
The reality is that its much worse this year.
A&E at the Leics Royal Infirmary is like a warzone. A 90-year old woman with pacemaker problems spent 6 HOURS outside (overnight) in an ambulance outside A&E because they couldn’t physically fit her in & figured she was safer in the ambulance!
This has massive knock-on effects for the ambulance service as they spend on average 4 HOURS/day waiting at LRI A&E.
Like many others I’ve had to take family members to hospital when they should be in an ambulance which never turned up – the only “up-side” of that (I kid you not) is that you effectively jump the “ambulance queue for admission” because you don’t have the training/kit they do.
The people here voted for this – and actually still defend it in the local rags comments pages.
@galamcennalath says: 16 January, 2017 at 9:57 am:
” … Clearly ‘dirty’ wasn’t a word the Brexiteers who actually want a walk away liked. So the coined the term Clean Brexit, as is clean break. The media obliged and we hear no more of Dirty, just Clean.”
There’s one wee, almost insignificant, thing about all that, galamcennalath.
I just did a special Advanced Google search for a list of EU Member States. Now strangely enough some of these results claimed they were actually lists of EU countries but the lists contained members that were in fact not countries but all were political states.
Even with that little bit of propaganda claims of the list being a list of countries I could not find a country called Britain listed as either a member state of country on the list of members.
Let’s see if anyone else can find where, “Britain”, is listed as an EU member?:-
So here id the official list of EU Members :-
Austria;
Belgium;
Bulgaria;
Croatia;
Republic of Cyprus;
Czech Republic;
Denmark;
Estonia;
Finland;
France;
Germany;
Greece;
Hungary;
Ireland;
Italy;
Latvia;
Lithuania;
Luxembourg;
Malta;
Netherlands;
Poland
Portugal;
Romania;
Slovakia;
Slovenia;
Spain;
Sweden;
The UK.
So can anyone explain how the Brexiteers intend to take, “Britain”, out of the EU when Britain is NOT an EU Member?
Further, as the UK is clearly a Kingdom composed of two equally sovereign kingdoms how do the Brexiteers expect to treat the Kingdom, (and country), of Scotland as Scotland, as full member kingdom of the United Kingdom has voted to NOT leave the EU. There is thus at least two different ways to consider this dilemma :-
1. The United Kingdom disunites and the two partner kingdoms go their different ways.
2. The Westminster Parliament forces upon the United Kingdom the illegal way Westminster is running the United Kingdom at present. Where Westminster assumes to be the de facto Parliament of the Country of England that is the overlord country calling itself the United Kingdom but is devolving English powers to the other countries and totally ignoring the Treaty of Union of 1707 that says the United Kingdom is a Union of two equally sovereign kingdoms.
So – has anyone found the country of Britain as a member state/country of the EU yet?
BTW: I also note that the list does not differentiate between The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Only mentioning, “Ireland”, as the Member State. Also, The Channel Islands and Isle of Man are NOT EU Member States either.
Just as an FYI for the “concerned”..
Firstly.. Pushing prams is not Normally something negative.
Secondly… I have had a few conversations,with, usually,in this context, young white, not particularly if at all religious woman,who tend to agree that…..They find some of the ways Muslim women wear their headscarf “a good look” and would love to know how,to imitate it.
They would indeed find it a good fashion item , particularly if they were in a rush to get ready or having a bad hair day,but don’t want to offend.
Secondly… When, as I have been known to do, I say “much mair bloody cameras and I am getting a Burker” everyone smile’s and nods along.
Then go on to agree that from a purely practical point of view it would sometimes be really handy to be able to stick one of them on to go somewhere in a hurry, rather than have to change!!
The point being that as long as it is a choice (No one seriously thinks Holyrood is minded to legislate for womanswear)…. it’s not anything other than a fashion issue,and yes I do think that the increase in particularly young woman in Scotland wearing these are a fashion choice,one that they love being exclusive to them.
They know they look good and hack off some others, what’s not to like.
That’s why it’s popular.
Next time you see them take a good look at their expression, there is no subdugation here.
All the outrage is manufactured…..But why shouldn’t they enjoy it, at that age I would have,and encouraged my mum to do it as well.
@ Nana The Advan its like Mr Whippy, stop me & get free car stickers I got some at George Square at 3pm (dead on time) sent E Mail to Inform Scotland to ask for a couple of thousand for Bbc Bias Protest on 26th March.
OT
Many thanks to all those involved with the misreporting Scotland billboard campaign.
I’ve found that people, including former no voters, are increasingly sceptical regarding the bbc’s political coverage and this can only be a good thing ahead of indyref2.
The timing couldn’t have been better either with all the discussions around ‘Fake news’ at present.
O/T
A friend sent me this. She is concerned Westminster intends to close down our parliament from the comments on the thread. Does anyone have a subscription to the FT?
link to twitter.com
@Pete at 12:05 pm
Why do Brexiteers like you assume that Germany dominates the EU and that it is about to disintegrate? What evidence do you have to support this assumption?
@Robert Peffers
Indeed. Britain is going nowhere relative to mainland Europe anytime soon.
We will need new mantle upwelling and mid oceanic ridge to develop along the Channel – North Sea line and begin opening. Give things a billion years or so, and it will probably happen.
The UK, on the other hand, is on its way to Hell in a handcart. 🙂
bjsalba says:
Could it be because their main political philosophy is to rely on wishful thinking? 🙂
Germany dominates the EU because it trades using a currency which trades at a lower rate than the Deutschmark would be if it was a sovereign country. This greatly benefits its manufacturing industry but impoverishes the Southern European counties which need a much lower currency.
Greece, Portugal and Italy are 3 examples and are now totally subjugated.
In other words Germany totally dominates Europe without needing to fire a shot.
Game, set and match!!!!
Nana
Sorry, don’t have a link to the FT however ;-
I think this was part of the discussion prior to the Supreme Court challenge as the Great Repeal Bill basically subsumes all EU law into UK law until such time as the H of C gets round to whittling out those rulings they want to repeal.
Our worry being that EVEL could mean that many laws affecting Scottish/ Welsh/N.irish daily life, fishing, farming, possibly even the future of Holyrood (although its permanency is supposed to be enshrined in the Scotland Act) and other devolved Assemblies could all be altered/cancelled by English MP’s before we or Welsh,N.Irish MP’s even knew.
Think this could be part of the UK SC judgement as it might be tied up with the legality of Royal Prerog. Fingers crossed!
e.g. Ironically, Scottish fishermen could find that the EU rules would still apply to quotas after Brexit as a result of the Great Repeal Bill and would do until such time as T May’s minions had sorted out an alternative and I wouldn’t hold my breath that the alternative might be an improvement. Am I being cynical?
Re the Pulse: I was only going by what heedtracker said.
I figured if I used the Daily Mail or the Sun as references he might have gone into meltdown.
Hey Legerwood that is cheating. I never said Pulse was right wing. I said this lot are.
link to iea.org.uk
link to pulsetoday.co.uk.
link to iea.org.uk
To be honest I only clicked on the IEA, as they are such a bunch of far right roasters.
Even so, stop cheating.
Just read WGD’s post from yesterday about getting elderly NOs on side.
Here in comments there has been discussion about elderly women promoted by the rally on Saturday.
I’ve have posted it here before, as have others, the solution is simple …. we show how shite our pensions are and commit to matching the best of the EU, when we are an independent country within the EU.
Make it an Indy priority. We want Scotland to be a country where people look forward to retirement, not dread it because of financial worries.
Contrast that with what hard right Brexiteers almost certainly have in mind for their welfare state.
@Clive Scott
=============
Although I believe that the staff of the National are in the main pro-Indy, two things must be considered:
1) Some of the journalists we would criticise for bias (and worse) are their colleagues and sometimes friends. It’s hard for them to say cutting things about them.
2) The National is part of the same group of papers as the Herald and E. Times. Calling their sister papers purveyors of propaganda might result in reins being pulled very tightly on the only pro-Indy paper around at the moment.
Hi Nana,
a quick search brought up this draft version of the Great Repeal Bill…scary stuff!
link to en.wikiversity.org
@Stoker says: 16 January, 2017 at 10:00 am:
also @gerry parker, Andy, Meg Merrilees, Liz Rannoch et al:
“Re; OUR health service. I too shall write to Shona Robinson etc. We have to start somewhere and we really need to produce something that clearly differentiates our relatively successful service from the struggling other services south of our border.”
Can this old Keyboard Warrior make a humble suggestion to the forum?
I’ve several times attempted to say this but avoid seeming to talk down to people by directly saying it as the way to go about certain things.
Mainly because I have no idea if those I’m directing the idea at are actually card carrying SNP members.
Furthermore I cannot do this myself as I’m very much housebound just now.
It is not either those who are SNP party office holders or those elected to either parliament or to local councils who form the SNP’s party policies. Not even Nicola herself.
Now this is NOT the same thing as the Scottish Government at Holyrood or the SNP MPs at Westminster doing things. That is the business of the parliaments and councils. It is official SNP Party Policies I speak of now.
Only a majority vote of National Conference Delegates can change the SNP Party Policies. While it is not a waste of time writing, or emailing, elected Scottish Government Ministers, Councillors or MPs, you must remember these people are always busy and being hassled from all sides.
So here’s how it can be done and cannot be ignored or forgotten about in the welter of other business going on all the time.
Sit down together with another like minded SNP member and formulate a proposal for your Branch’s consideration. One of you as the proposer of the motion and the other as the seconder.
Propose it at your next Branch meeting but also work with members who can do the same at other Branches and at different Constituency Association Branches.
These proposals cannot be ignored. They can, though, have amendments proposed or they can be opposed by other members but they cannot be either forgotten or ignored.
That is the sure way to change, or even, make party policy changes. It might too be slow but it is sure to get the idea floated throughout the branch, constituency association and be noticed by the Hecht heid anes of both the party and the elected to councils, and parliamentarians.
“Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come”, as a great man, (Voltaire), once said.
Thanks Meg, I did tell her as much of the repeal bill as I could recall. Will send her that link. I’ve already sent these
link to ukconstitutionallaw.org
link to researchbriefings.parliament.uk
link to fullfact.org
@Nana
Here’s a link to the FT piece, unfortunately it does not save the comments on the article.
link to archive.is
Re Gaelic
signs. If the name of the town , village, Ben is of Gaelic origin then use it!
Simple.
Robert Peffers on 16 January, 2017 at 4:56 pm:
Good contribution Boab. I’m not an SNP member but having voted for nothing else all of my voting life i tend to forget these wee details from time to time. I am however SNP through and through in almost every other way….until independence then i’ll take stock.
I hope some of the card carrying members take on board your suggestions and that gives us another angle. People such as myself can still write to our contacts of choice with nothing to lose. The whole idea is getting the idea out there and to show there is a demand for change.
I believe we can do it. We have to at least try.
Thanks Thenpr
O/T
Ah the good old labour train must stay on the tracks
Former first ministers call for ‘radical’ change at Holyrood
link to archive.is
Just heard Gove sookin up to Trump. Makes one vomit so it does
We could change Scottish towns with the suffix “mouth” to the prefix “inver”. As in Inverlossie.
@Robert Graham
You don’t need facebook any more with the National. I set up a National sign-in ages ago but it didn’t work, but now I can use the same one I use for the Herald. Not sure if I had to set that up separately with the National though.
Dam Wings educating me about the media tricks, gets me more angry.
“Reporting Scotland is by far the most watched news programme in Scotland with around half a million viewers tuning in every night.” Population 5,347,600 in mid-2014 as per google, 500,000 viewers (probably well under that number). That gives me a figure, over 90% of the Scottish population refuse to watch Reporting Scotland. Now that makes me feel great, thank you Wings. link to archive.is
I never believed the leave campaign’s claim that the uk would get a good deal from the eu, it seems like TM and WM is begining to realise this. I never believed TM or WM would work towards keeping Scotland in the EU either. none of us did, Nicola was only ever going through the motions. However, the SG’s EU proposal of a compromise was a clever solution (effectively scottish membership of EFTA/EA)and I think that this is the position the SNP should take re- the EU during indyref2.
it would appeal to the greatest number of voters in scotland and ensure a yes victory
@Pete,
Do not come here posting nonsense. Germany has been on the losing side of EU votes in the chamber just as often as any other country. Pretty bad show if they actually control Europe. Check for yourself.
Pete, you are a victim of both prejudice and stupidity Game back on.
This morning the lead story in the on-line Herald was yesterday’s doom and gloom interview on Sunday Politics with Dr. Bennie.
I posted 2 comments on the item.
About an hour ago I returned to my computer and noticed that a new Icon had mysteriously appeared on my PC Desktop.
It was a large ‘H’ with the legend underneath along the lines of ‘NHS stretched to breaking point’.
Clicking on the icon took me to the above article on the Herald.
I must have done something to cause the appearance of the now deleted Icon – either that or something funny is going on.
Dan Huil@5.26
Do you mean Lossymaff?
Had a YOON customer today, known her for years, EU remainer and proud “Scot But”.
I know there are two sides to every issue but I despair when you try and make someone see the printed, factual logic to a situation and they spout off the same pish the Yoon meja shout.
Once a YOON always a YOON, yes YOON is an apt description for them, if some are offended by the term they can YOON OFF.
Whey nae chynge aw the rodd signs frae Sassenach intae Scots?
GLESGAE Etc etc 😉
Seriously, on Indy we need to look at the Scots language.
It is not so long since posh folk in Norway all spoke Danish with a few Norwegian words sprinkled in it. Modern spoken Norwegian is a rationalisation of rural language. ‘Book Norwegian’ is very close to Danish.
The parallels with Scots are an eye opener.
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
Jeez! Just listened to Radio 4 news.
PM May has sent Trump a letter envoking Churchill.
Radio 4 then plays a recording of Churchill and his speech from the Whitehouse followingthe entry of America into WW2 in 1941.
All ” common language, worship at common altars, common enemy” etc.
The symbolism used by the London government is very illuminating and does not bode well.
War, common enemy (that would be Germany), together in crisis, etc.
Bonkers if it wasn’t so scarey!
Wonder what Kezia and her Boss Ruth Davidson think?
@Dan Huil says: 16 January, 2017 at 1:43 pm:
“I’m sure britnats at Westminster will love being back in control in Northern Ireland?!”
Aye! But will the Northern Irish?
Don’t have a TV and off out now till about 11pm.
Relying on Wingers to relate whether Mis-Reporting Scotland is feart or no!
Donald Trump welcomes Brexit.
“FIRE SALE”
I would laugh at British Nationalists but cannot until we are shot of them.
Can someone help me. I was through the kitchen boiling the kettle for a coffee about 4 minutes ago when I heard a news item about the TV series Outlander on Scotland Today. i heard the bit about filming a new series, but did they say it would be shown on terrestrial TV? It lasted about 30 seconds and the boiling kettle cut off the last 10 seconds.
Also on Scotland Today WM wants a VERY HARD BREXIT. IndyRef2 here we come.
@pete at 4:39
I said evidence, not opinion.
Oh, and this is not tennis.
O/T just watching a programme about david bowie , and thought how naive we were in the sixties most of us were too busy working to be annoyed with these lying politicians and as for zero hour contracts they would have been strangled at birth ,the same with food banks and all the other pish that people are accepting as the norm now , i dont know maybe it was our fault for not noticing these liars merrily fucking up our society in the shadows out of sight while we were busy working to provide for theses b/trds .
pay back time i believe and in spades .
WOS archive links now over on O/T.
Agreed Stoker, those who are SNP can take on board Robert’s advice but for those of us not members, we should chase it up in our own way. 🙂
LOVE the BBC is misreporting Scotland van outside PQ. That van is huge.
Yes, the BBC has a report on its website, and look at this for a self-denying ordinance or whatever, self-confirmation. Their headline is:
“Billboards and van adverts accuse BBC Scotland of bias”
But wait … it does no such thing, it says “BBC is mis-reporting Scotland”.
So their own headline is a confimation of the van’s message!
“Mis-reporting” is not equal to “bias”. Even if it is 🙂
Well worth my £5 all I could afford, my son transferred by bank. I even paid him back!
@K1
Great letter to your MSP on rebranding of the NHS in Scotland. Propaganda is much more effective when it spreads confusion. Eliminate the confusion and it will have less effect.
Far too many people that live here are confused about what the NHS is.
End the confusion and weaken he propaganda.
Brexit has caused the pound to slump which has made Trump’s UK investments more attractive destinations for US holiday makers. Turnberry is doing well and the Donald is pleased…no wonder he says that Brexit is great.
Gove and May need to realise that Donald is batting for Donald (and the US in fits and starts) not the UK.
Owww. The BBC reporting the anti BBC billboards etc..
They claim they are the most trusted news provider. Yes, by what percentage don’t trust ANY boardcaster?
BBC reporting Ayrshire Potatoes are to seek protected food status.
Not once did they mention the EU.
No EU membership, no protection.
@yesindyref2
Had a wee chuckle to myself at the picture of the van with the billboard outside PQ headquarters.
Will be interesting indeed to see how this pans out in the next couple of weeks. A small sum of crowdfunding money well spent.
Fight back! That’s all we can ask, even if all it achieves is a bad case of indigestion for some down Pacific Quay way then I’ll settle for that LOL.
link to archive.is for that BBC story.
There should be red faces at Pacific Quay over that headline.
@galamcennalath 6.48
Just caught the report before herself turned over for Emerdale.
Fair doos, there may have soor plums in the gob but at least they did report it. Think a few nerves have been rubbed.
“I was informed there was a train at 4 in the morning”.
“You were mis-informed”.
“Are you accusing me of bias?”.
LOL
Bbc showing footage of the Advan on Scottish news 6.30 pm , they’re not burying they’re heads in the sand now. can anyone remember if they have ever counteracted a Indy accusation on the 6.30 news before , they must be bricking it.
That didn’t quite work, ohnevermind.
Looks like RT have noticed ” THE VANS ” and feature it on their news site lets hope a prominent European News agency follows who knows where this will lead the wider the better .
Everybody trusts us the mostest says the BBC
But where were those figures, graphs, stats, polls
We just have their word, and that’s what’s wrong intit
And there are vans saying different so clearly everybody doesny love the BBC dae they and I’ve investigated myself and found that I’m being 100% truthful
Online poll rev?
No hiding place now for bbc. bbc bias is out there for all to see. the bbc will be desperately hoping to gain sympathy – oh these nasty nats saying bad things about the perfect bbc!
The britnat media will be hilariously hysterical over this.
There can never be sympathy for britnat bbc bias. Great publicity for the billboard/Advan campaign.
@ Pete: Germany dominates the EU
That’s Daily Express pish my man or you wouldn’t have been hearing the recent big story over Wallonia holding up the Canadian trade deal would you
Yoonworld were reporting that one as a tiny country controlling the EU when it suited their purposes
That’s EU respect for democracy something the UK has no regard for
You can’t have it both ways @Pete
Bbc2 tomorrow night doing a program on 200 years of the Scotsman FREE advertisement curtesy of the Licence Fee Payers , here’s me thinking they’re charter doesn’t allow advertising.
On the other hand britnat/brexiteer types are no fans of the bbc. So to criticise us for the advan campaign would be hypocritical. Oh, wait… britnats, hypocrits… aye, as I said before, britnat media response will be hysterical.
Talking of “BBC is Misreporting Scotland”. I saw my first ever sticker on Saturday in the toilet of the hotel which is next door to the train station in Inverness.
Some cybernat from the North had stuck it on the back of the door to the loo and sitting there you had no choice other than to look at it. It obviously got on someones nerves as they had scraped off the BBC letters from the sticker. I guess they must be pretty sticky as they seem to have given up after that and the rest was more or less intact.
Maybe some see this as petty, childish even. Nah, I don’t think so, I believe it to be effective and if anything if it can be used to demoralise the most ardent of Unionists then it has to be worth it.
Wings is despised so much because it is effective, I welcome more of the same. If this type of action has the likes of any Red, Blue and Yellow Tory frothing at the mouth with spittle flying all over the place then as I said, more of the same.
We can’t put 100,000’s of lies on Newsagents shelves but we can stick a sticker on the back door of a public loo!
Not that I would advocate such vandalism of course.
Hesitate to post this, because it takes issue with what Joseph Stiglitz, (yes that Joe Stiglitz), has to say in his book criticising the single currency and the threat it poses to Europe.
However, it’s a rare thing to see in the U.K., and that’s an attempt made to defend the Euro, and seek to allay misapprehensions about it.
link to socialeurope.eu
I invite folks to read it for themselves, because I’ll be honest, the intricacies of currency details are not my strong point, and furthermore, given that Scotland will not, and cannot be compelled to join the Euro, the argument seems moot anyway, however you cannot escape the point that if the Eurozone collapsed, there would be serious ramifications for the EU.
However, when you read about the issue, the Eurozone is not “the beastly German occupation and subjugation of your liberties a la 1939”, but an attempt to harmonise economic performance to counter NeoLiberal forces which sees money gravitate towards wealth rather than distribute wealth more fairly and bring economies into closer equilibrium. That makes sense to me. Far from promoting dominance of already stronger economic zones, at its heart, the Eurozone seeks to do the very opposite, and avoid stronger economies sucking up the prosperity and failing to distribute wealth to weaker economic areas. Whether it is succeeding is another matter.
When you think about that, there is always going to be an uphill gradient for the weaker economy which tries to compete with a stronger economy, and there also an asymmetric amount of effort which goes into a finding a harmonious equilibrium. It’s always going to be the weaker economy running to catch up, doing all the work and feeling the pain for the simple reason it makes no sense whatsoever to achieve parity in performance by weakening the stronger economy.
My instincts suggest that theory is sound, and the objectives are honourable and equitable, however I suspect that getting a weaker economy to manage its performance to deliver the required levels of improvement has been too ambitious, and perhaps the Eurozone has overstretched itself. I don’t know if that’s the case or not, I suspect it probably has, perhaps misjudging how motivated Greece, Italy and Portugal were to lift the performance of their economies sufficiently to reach a stable equilibrium. The Jury seems to be out on that question, and whether the Eurozone can achieve that desirable parity in performance of Eurozone economies, but the intention seems quite firm that it should.
Then add in the ERM. That’s the two year precursor to joining the Euro, which seeks to align the economic performance of a new member to the Eurozone, and make sure the integration is manageable. Perhaps the ERM is not long enough, or perhaps lacking rigour. I really don’t know.
But for Scotland, where our economic strategy is informed by Mr Stieglitz, the Eurozone is an ongoing European project which does not directly effect Scotland, since Scotland need not join the Eurozone. However that “fear” of the Eurozone to me reeks of British hysteria, almost willing it to fail. Even if Scotland does not want to join the Euro, there will still be pressure to align our economic performance with our European neighbours to avoid the same economic hot and cold spots which the Eurozone seeks to flatten out.
Once there is close parity between a countries economic performance and the standard economic performance of Eurozone members, then joining the Euro should be painless and trouble free, and of course voluntary.
That however raises a chicken and egg type question; is economic parity accelerated by being in the Eurozone, or best left outside to develop at a much more leisurely pace where economic parity might take decades? Because look at the question the other way round, without the Eurozone, where is the engine to drive and motivate closer integration and harmony between disparate economic regions?
Correction to a previous post it appears that the RT coverage was from before THE VANS went out judging by the dates on the tweets at the end of the piece. Sorry for any inconvenience and raising Of hopes in folk , but what the hell we can dream can’t we ? Ha Ha
@Socrates MacSporran says:16 January, 2017 at 11:00 am:
” … Difficult though it might be, leave well alone, do the re-brand post-Independence.”
Or, of course, Socrates, you adopt that old Scottish thing known as, “Yaise yer heid”. For a start you can keep the initial letters just as they are but change what they stand for.
At present the system is scattered. With each local area Health Board and Hospital Board doing the buying of such things as headed paper. So you bring it under central government control.
As much of the brown Envelope culture of old will have already been knocked on the head. (We have all seen the local Labour Party leaflets that get printed south of the border).
So bigger central contracts that go to Scottish situated companies and create jobs for the people of Scotland and not for those Dan Sath
Some of the biggest problems with Scottish Local councils at present are due to the Local Council seeding such as the local Hospital Board and Local Health Boards with Local councillors. Bring them largely under Central Government control and that corrupt culture is dead.
It would certainly end the constant drip, drip, drip of such things as blaming the SG for the lack of nurses when the SG does not employ nurses but the local council controlled Hospital Boards and Health Boards do.
There should not be too much opposition to this for with less Labour controlled councils COSLA will also be largely toothless.
The BBC article with the uncritical self praise is hilarious.
Yes, they are having a wobble….and deservedly so.
They seem to run as a second headline story every morning as a “Blow to SNPbaaaad/FM/SG story…with a 2 second “according to Tories/Labour/Liberals/FOI request etc.,” as a get out clause if the story transpires to be mince.
They really must think that people button up the back. I wonder whose turn it is tomorrow to feed the beast. Willie Rennie hasn’t done a Police Scotland one for a while.
@Breeks
Oh you do ask serious questions! Interesting article, which does blow Pete out of the water, and probably also SD. The author had me on his side a bit by this statement: “an austerity out of proportion with that imposed (foolishly) by the Troika.“.
Both Stiglitz and Carney don’t like the eurozone, but for different reasons I think. Carney because he thinks a currency union needs a large amount of central spending to support it – like 25%. Which would mean EU budgets being far far higher than they are (2% I think). Stiglitz because of the instability the euro had with the banks crash, and quite possibly yes, because of the US dollar.
The US does get an advantage from the dollar being for a long time the de facto world currency and part of the reason for the euro was to challenge that. It is a major currency but hasn’t got there yet. The euro, however, did survive the banks and Greece, plus Italy, Spain and Ireland even. So it was clearly strong.
I think the UK doesn’t like it mainly because of the UK crashing out of the ERM within 24 hours or whatever it is. People resent it. I don’t think Scotland once Independent will have that problem and perhaps in 5 years after, might want to actually consider joining the eurozone. From that point of view it would be important for the EU not to apply pressure. Public opinion wold change in time. But we do need our own currency.
The author is a bit riled up by Stiglitz and transfers that anger to the dollar and the US as well. The truth as always probably lies somewhere in-between.
O/T on road signs and language – one of my relations almost went into rant about the cost of replacing ‘all’ the road signs till I pointed out they were only replaced or installed where and when necessary such as at new road layout so, presumably, the Aberdeen (Obar Dheathain) bypass will get such signage – the rant subsided and we moved onto suggesting Doric ones for the N.E. Scotland – some of the planned villages were given pretent names, New Leeds for example, but the locals would continue to refer to the name of whatever was there before. The best is, possibly, Aberchirder (which would mean the village at the mouth of the river Chirder except there is no such river – it even has a harbour St. despite being many miles from the sea) which is still called Foggie or Foggieloan. Turriff = Turra. Sandend = Sanyne. Gardenstown = Gamrie. Banff = Bamff. Stonehaven = Staenhive (with various permutations). Doric signs for Doric people. Maybe I should start a column.
@Thepnr
I don’t really understand those critical of the misreporting campaign. As far as the BBC is concerned there’s nothing to lose. If they refuse to interview pro-indy people as a result they prove the campaign. If they get even more indignant they prove the campaign. At least they had the sense not to ignore it as that would have – proved the campaign. But their article is a laugh and a half, they really should have an adult babysitter who vets their material.
The only problem with the campaign is if it makes some undecided think pro-indy people are conspiracy whackos, which is why now is an absolutely perfect time to run it. I’m going to try to point out non-indy bias, hence what I posted about the BBC reportage of the US election – which was and still is very biased against him.
Open the minds of people to the possibility the BBC is biased, light the blue touchpaper, and then sit back and enjoy the fireworks.
Robert Peffers,
So here id the official list of EU Members :-
Austria;
Belgium;
Bulgaria;
Croatia;
Republic of Cyprus;
Czech Republic;
Denmark;
Estonia;
Finland;
France;
Germany;
Greece;
Hungary;
Ireland;
Italy;
Latvia;
Lithuania;
Luxembourg;
Malta;
Netherlands;
Poland
Portugal;
Romania;
Slovakia;
Slovenia;
Spain;
Sweden;
The UK.
So can anyone explain how the Brexiteers intend to take, “Britain”, out of the EU when Britain is NOT an EU Member?
Can you explain how Scotland can remember in the EU when Scotland is NOT an EU Member?
So much for your shite about kingdoms.
Pretty much sums up another display of all new and exciting Donaldo in BBC action.
link to indyref2.scot
Where’s that twerp sensibledave when you need him, because I would love to hear a rep from planet toryboy tell us why Mike Gove’s plastered across all teamGB media this week. I know why. Neo fascism marches onwards and upwards.
We should have one Scottish National Health Board which provides parity of service across the country and the plethora of boards,consultancy bodies and other “democratic” scrutiny bodies on which people get thousands of pounds annually for a couple of meetings per month should be abolished.
The present situation in which there is much more management than medical staff is unacceptable.
The new norm should be the Government setting up health practices and employing doctors and other medical staff and all those who graduate as doctors out of our training should be required to pay back that investment by working in our Health Service for at least five years before jetting off to big money in OZ or US. That would help save us denuding third world countries of the doctors they really need.
I want doctors who want to be doctors,not doctors who want to be rich
I could go on. Our present NHS has become unsustainable.
@Rock says: “shite”
The bbc had to report the Advan story. Jings! I’ve just realized. Pro-indy movement leads the media agenda! Feels good.
@Rock
“Can you explain how Scotland can remember in the EU when Scotland is NOT an EU Member?”
I’m sure you meant remain Rock not remember? It might have passed you by but Scotland as part of the UK is of course currently a member of the EU and a majority of Scots wish it to “remain” that way.
You are welcome to be as pessimistic as you like of course, you always are but hear this. It’s possible that you are the one that has it all wrong. It’s possible that it is you that spouts shite about Scotland and the United Kingdoms?
Ever considered that Rocky? That it may be you that spouts shite and at the same time spreads misery across Wings in your wake?
@breeks
Thank you for the article on the Euro. It was most interesting and informative.
Andrew McLean,
“do you really think Nicola Sturgeon is a liar”
If Brexit happens, there is a 0% chance of the colony of Scotland remaning a member or getting a special deal.
Anyone, including Nicola, who gives the impression that Scotland could somehow influence the Brexit terms or get a special deal is being dishonest.
Nicola should have spent the last seven months preparing for independence rather than wasting time on pretending that there could be a separate Scottish deal.
The Rev. Stuart Campbell had written:
“1. THERE WILL BE NO SEPARATE SCOTTISH DEAL
You know there won’t, we know there won’t, everyone and their dog knows there won’t.”
Thepnr,
@Rock
“Can you explain how Scotland can remember in the EU when Scotland is NOT an EU Member?”
I’m sure you meant remain Rock not remember?
Yes, I did.
@Rock
Thanks for the clarification. What was your point again?
Thepnr,
“It might have passed you by but Scotland as part of the UK is of course currently a member of the EU”
No, it isn’t as Robert Peffers’ list of members clearly demonstrates.
Scotland in NOT a member of the EU. No colony or region is.
The UK remains or the UK gets out, it is as simple as that, apart from the shite and pedantry about “kingdoms”.
Rock says:
16 January, 2017 at 9:18 pm
Andrew McLean,
“do you really think Nicola Sturgeon is a liar”
But Scots have voted EU Remain twice in two years now. Its all come to nothing but tt was clearly too risky to go for a third ref with so much at stake. If yoon culture gets back in…
If you understand “risk,” you understand why ref 3 is coming, not past. Yoon culture only has to lose once.
@Brian Powell says: 16 January, 2017 at 11:34 am:
“Ah Pete, you’re a fake independence supporter, too obvious.”
Perhaps not Brian. You will get a few brainless, misinformed numpties in any batch of people anywhere.
Pete may be just such a poor deluded numptie. Anyone with a modicum of common sense and the ability to comprehend the English language knows that in no way does the EU parliament control their member states in anything like the same manner the Westminster de facto parliament of the country of England controls everything Scottish, Welsh and N. Irish.
The Westminster Parliament could not have made itself clearer when it instigated devolution in the manner that devolution now runs. Then, during the Independence Referendum they commissioned a couple of claimed, “Experts”, to produce a paper that made the claim as quoted by David Mundell on national TV thus:-
Now the Treaty of Union did nothing of the sort but the Westminster Parliament is most certainly set up now as if it had.
Westminster now legislates directly for only the country of England under the English legal system. It then tags wee bits to the end of any act where Scots law differs from English law.
Westminster also funds only the country of England directly as the United Kingdom but it funds it with the revenues collected from the entire United Kingdom. In other words we all pay for everything in England whether it benefits us all or not.
Westminster then decides what English Powers it will devolve to the other three countries and what levels of funding Westminster is grudgingly ready to dispense to the other three countries as Block Grants and, of course directly funded England needs no block grant.
This does not sate the grasping Westminster robbing greed for they then regulate the block grants by use of Barnett Formula Consequentials. By these the directly compare English spending, either positive by extra spend in England, or negative if English funding is reduced, and adjust the block grants accordingly.
Yet even that does not satisfy them for they then further cheat by funding only English, and particularly London, infrastructure projects from Westminster Government sources that do not carry Barnett Consequential when it favours England but from Barnett consequential carrying sources when that favours England.
I’ll quote a couple or three :-
The London Cross-Rail Scheme carries NO Barnett Consequentials.
The New London Sewerage System carries NO Barnett Consequentials.
The New HSS rail Links have No Barnett Consequentials.
Anything preceded by the word, “National”, carries NO Barnett Consequentials as it is supposed to benefit the Nation and in such context the Nation is the UK – not just England. Think National Art Gallery, National Theatre, National Museum. et al.
It takes a very special kind of numptie like Pete to believe the EU is controlling Scotland more than Westminster does. Especially when the per capita figures prove that Scotland’s share of the money paid by the UK Treasury to the EU more than comes back to Scotland in various EU grants and payments. And all that without the many other, “nice little earners”, operated by the Westminster control freaks. Like variable National Grid Connection Charges levied in Scotland and the corresponding subsidies paid to those in the south.
All that while they sneer at us and tell us that England subsidises us. To their warped minds all revenues collected are English income but all payments to Scots, Welsh and N. I. are also English.
It doesn’t take a big intellect to figure out there is something wrong in a Westminster Parliament who constantly claim to be subsidising the Scots but who are fighting so very hard to prevent the Scots from ending the Union – and that’s another thing :-
When, not if, Scotland takes her independence Scotland will not be leaving the behind the UK – Scotland will be ending the Union. There will then be only the Kingdom of England and no one to unite with left to be a UK.
How do you like that Pete? Care to prove me wrong?
Gover is trying everything he can to worm his way back into the cabinet. He probably hasn’t got enough millions in the bank to qualify.
Or is it because he looks like the baddie on Stingray?
@Rock
I have a passport that states on the top line “European Union” under which it then says “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”.
Are you saying that currently I am neither a citizen of the European Union or that of a pedantry Kingdom? If you are then I would disagree as I believe all Scots citizens are currently EU and UK citizens.
If Scots chose to leave the UK then there is no reason at all that we cannot retain our EU citizenship.
@Rock,
Nicola has been preparing for Indy2,
but she must show a certain % of Scottish voters that she tried her best to protect Scotland from the apocalyptic shitstorm that is coming UK`s way from our removal from EU,
we need a 6% swing to Indy,
not from the yoon who would rather eradicate the name of Scotland,
target the 6% and the rest can `get tae`,
Nicola is targeting the 6%,those that see being in the EU is a chance for a better future than stuck with the UK sinking ship.
link to newstatesman.com
Labour needs to sell the United Kingdom, and the Britishness underlying it, as a progressive force. As long as left-wing voters remain attached to independence and the SNP, despite all the implications, Labour will be marginalised and the union in danger.
Henry Hill is assistant editor of ConservativeHome,”
Its that simple Kez. Or can Pacific Quay actually sell the United Kingdom Britishness of tory rule to us any harder. Maybe.
@scotspine says: 16 January, 2017 at 12:07 pm:
“Pete is a Unionist really.
In fact I reckon he and SD work in the same office of whichever Dept or Agency employs them.”
They both put in an appearance around the same time we got the news that the, “Soldiers of the Queen”, were reforming the old 77th Brigade as Cyberwarriors.
Who knows they may both be one and the same person but really, who cares? They both provide an open goal to shoot the truth at and none of them keeper enough to save any shots and both rather prone to own goals.
This Pete and sensibledave seem to have a similar writing style. I have asked what rank sd holds a couple of times now, without answer. Someone mentioned that they probably sit near each other in the same department of the security services.
I think that is the case.
It is not a exact parallel but when Greenland opted to leave Denmark it had to negotiate its WITHDRAWAL from the EU. Apart from that the immediate absorption of E Germany the immediate rearrangement on the Czech divorce and other instances shows that the EU is flexible enough to react sensibly immediately to any circumstance.
The notion that the EU – an expansionist body – would reject or block the immediate membership of an independent Scotland with most of Europe’s oil and gas,most of its fishing grounds and a strategic command of the North Atlantic is completely absurd and should be laughed at rather than argued about.
Just a thought. What if Russia applied to join NATO and the EU?
Come on Vlad. Stick it up them.
@sensibledave says: 16 January, 2017 at 12:32 pm:
” … So, when you and Robert Peffers do your Tory boy, London centric, “Little Englander” stuff, please bear in mind that the majority of 18 million voters in London and the South East voted “remain”.”
Oh! Dear! Did we hit that nerve again, then?
Why do you persist in assuming that we Scots are ill informed, sensibledave?
We seem to have a far better information service than whatever supplies you with your ammo.
This caper of constituency borders and the changes made was designed by the incumbents of Westminster to bias things in favour of whichever group of Unionists held sway at any particular time at Westminster.
Any fool can thus choose an area to suit whatever facts they want to prove. I once lived in a small. but densely populated village near a then shale oil mining and producing plant. In those days the working classes were 100% Labour.
So the villagers never yet got a Labour MP. Here’s why.
The constituency was set in a large mainly rural area and all around that village there were big private estates, large farms and loads of smallholdings.
The farms were, in those days, labour intensive. Many did not even have a single tractor and they still used horses and a had a bothy full of workers.
So, on voting day the resident estate workers did what we called, “Folla the Maister”, (Follow the Master), they knew if they didn’t they lost their job and their tied cottage.
Same with the large farms – The farmer loaded the workers onto a farm cart and took them to the polls. The smallholders were mainly Tories or Liberals anyway.
That meant those in the village were outnumbered by a long way by people who were Labour supporters but who dared not vote Labour.
So there you go – polls can be manipulated and even in the cities the Tories then would make sure the working class council house areas were built in constituencies where they were surrounded and outnumbered by large surrounding private house areas.
Westminster has always been corrupt.
Nana just sent us this – link to mail.google.com
We would love to get an early pic from Scottish Parliament in the morning. From 9am for half an hour with a phone/camera and ‘share’ link to informscotland.com
You can see lots of other opportunities in North Edinburgh if anyone around?
Lots of promises for photos – we will be waiting – thanks to fellow wingers for all for your support
Hi Robert Peffers.
You typed at 8.10pm,
“At present the system is scattered. With each local area Health Board and Hospital Board doing the buying of such things as headed paper. So you bring it under central government control.”
You’re a tad misinformed there. For around the past 5 years, most procurement has been centralised to the NHS Scotland National Distribution Centre at Larkhall.
Ninewells Hospital gets a couple of deliveries a week, in a big lorry, filled with pallets, most addressed to individual wards/departments. The Loading Bay staff at Ninewells merely sort the pallets as they come off the lorry, for onward delivery within the hospital.
You can get more info at the links below, regarding savings and so on. Here’s a quote:-
“Our logistics team deliver goods to hospital wards, departments and community centres across Scotland – more than 80,000 lines delivered every week on a 48-hours service with a 98% on time, first time, in full supply record. Last year our logistics team saved the NHS £9.8 million.”
link to nhsscotlandprocurement.scot.nhs.uk
link to nhsscotlandprocurement.scot.nhs.uk
You mentioned “headed paper”. I can only type in relation to NHS Tayside. For years, they have had their own in-house print shop at Ninewells, known as “Tayside Healthprint”, which provides stuff like headed paper, lab blood report blanks and so on.
I’d be surprised if other area NHS’s haven’t gone down the same route.
Dave McEwan Hillat 10:21 pm
Just a thought. What if Russia applied to join NATO and the EU?
Come on Vlad. Stick it up them.
They did apply in 1990 with Gorbachev and some 15 years or so ago with Putin- and were told to F-off
Nato and the arms companies need an enemy
Listened to BBC Radio Scotland at tea time. There was a report from the BBC Berlin correspondent.
She was full on “Merkel is cutting a lonely figure” “Trump distrusts Merkel” “Trump says the EU will split” “Trump says Brexit will be good for Britain” “Merkel BAAAD”.
That correspondent is without doubt a spook working for the Foreign Office on behalf of Westminster Tory Brexiteers with a cover story of being employed by the BBC. Shocking!
The establishment is shiting itself and in full propaganda mode.
Russia (USSR) first applied to join NATO in 1954. Putin also proposed joining. NATO not interested. As Cadogan points out, they need an enemy.
Guardian article from 2001
link to archive.is
May’s 12 point plan.
link to archive.is
Guido Fawkes has the speech on his website
link to archive.is
Ayep scotspine, that’s exactly the mode they are in, setting the agenda and forcing it doon the throats of the ignorant. Keep yer mind free abstain from the BBC.
From Rev’s twitter feed, E xit.
@Nana
Priceless!
“I want Britain to be what we have the potential and ambition to be: a great, global trading nation that is respected around the world and strong, confident and united at home.”
United at home? Oops.
The establishment is shiting itself and in full propaganda mode.
BBC 2 Newsnight handed over completely to Mike Gove and all his genius of planet toryboy. Its like a love in for toryboys. Two cheeks of the same toryboy airse.
The only good thing from this RAG is THE CIRCULATION IN SCOTLAND IS RUBBISH
AND ON READ BY THE RICH
WHO ARE PREDISPOSED TO VOTE FOR THE TORY PARTY RYAT PAYS FOR THIS PAPER TO CIRCULATE .
So Ho Hum who needs them.
Liar liar msp pants on fire
link to twitter.com
link to twitter.com
As Mike Gove drones on and on, what the fuck have the Swedes ever done to piss off Britnat yoon culture, other than make really nice home furnishing and amazing porno:D
link to archive.is
The English really are going barking tory mad though.
Thepnr,
“@Rock
I have a passport that states on the top line “European Union” under which it then says “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”.
Are you saying that currently I am neither a citizen of the European Union or that of a pedantry Kingdom?”
Yes, I am saying exactly that.
You are a citizen of the political entity that is called the UK, not Robert Peffers’ shite and pedantry about “kingdoms”.
There is no such thing as “citizen of Scotland” or “citizen of the EU”.
Scotland is effectively a colony and the EU is not a political union.
Pedantry has not got us anywhere in the last 300 years and will not get us anywhere in the next 300 years.
55% of Scotland’s population voted for Scotland to remain a colony and that is the bitter truth.
@Thepnr
The tory’s have some deluded comedy writers if they think the UK is united.
Sure they’ll be going into overdrive tomorrow, no doubt with Murdoch’s help.
Scot Finlayson,
@Rock,
“but she must show a certain % of Scottish voters that she tried her best to protect Scotland from the apocalyptic shitstorm that is coming UK`s way from our removal from EU”
That is the dishonest part.
She has been flogging a dead horse.
She should have said clearly following the Brexit result that the only way for Scotland to become a member of the EU was by becoming an independent country.
Talk straight to the Scottish people and they will listen.
We have wasted seven months for nothing.
@Rock
I find it pointless to argue with you as you are deaf to any reasoned argument. The facts though are simply that I AM an EU citizen and nothing you say can change that.
The bitter truth is that it is you who is the most bitter person ever to post on this site. You can call it whatever you like but you are a LOSER. It is written all over your pathetic posts that scream submit! submit! Give in we are lost anyway.
Well you might give up Rock I won’t, I have a belief that the Scottish people will get it right in the end. There’s no point trying to talk to you as you have already decided that we are beaten before we even start. You will not listen, you are blind as well as deaf. For you fail to see the opportunity before us.
Once you get on board Rock I’ll be certain Yes will win. Are you coming with us or not?
@Rock (11.10) –
‘…the EU is not a political union.’
You are, seriously, the weakest fucking link.
FRO.
Has ‘Rock’ adopted the name from the missile that has collided with that part of his body above the neck?
Rock
Nicola has not wasted the last seven months.
She and her ministers, our MP’s at Westminster, our MSP’s at Holyrood and especially our MEP’s – Alyn Smith springs to mind with his standing ovation shortly after the Brexit vote when he stated that Scotland did not want to leave the EU- all of these people have said that they want to get the best deal for Scotland which voted to Remain.
Nicola has been to Iceland, Norway, The EU, Ireland and been warmly received in all these countries where she has flown the flag for our country and made it clear to these neighbours what the views of the Scottish Government is re Brexit. She has made sure these countries know that we are not just a region of the UK but a functioning country very different in outlook to England.
She has been strong and unwavering in her statement that she acts in the best interests of the Scottish people at all times and I believe her and trust her. She is by far the most competent politician in Scotland today and we are well served by her thoughts, words and deeds.
Do not doubt her!
Sometimes it’s best to keep your powder dry while the opposition uses up a lot of energy running round in circles in front of you.
We all know where this will end up and the longer we wait, the more we get to see that the other side are clueless.
I think that’s quite a clever strategy. N’est-ce pas?
@ Thepnr aw stop playing paper/scissors you’ve already cut the Rock aff at the knees LoL. He’s a Yoon & always has been.
Enough rock.
You are either an idiot or a unionist troll, without the joyful Bon ami of sensible Dave.
Come back when you can formulate a argument for independence, not against.
Back stabbers and people who chew on wet rags are a plenty in U.K. ok see that Nicola Sturgeon, she duse my box right in unionist mad mad world.
“She should have said clearly following the Brexit result that the only way for Scotland to become a member of the EU was by becoming an independent country.”
Their last election manifesto said roughly, vote SNP, we will hold ref 2 if circumstances merit one.
Seems pretty straight forward Rock.
Listening to some English Tory commentator on the Irish Radio. It seems to me certain individuals still believe the R.o.I is still an English colony. The aggressive nature of brexiters is surely making more enemies than friends but them maybe some don’t care.
May will tell us tomorrow to do as we are telt. No ifs, no buts. Then it will be backed up by the usual suspects such as Mundell and Davidson who have been particularly quiet recently as they are coached what to say.
How many times do you have to be kicked around before you say No enough is enough. For Mundell Davidson Dugdale and Wullie Rennie obviously not enough. They are a disgrace to Scotland.
@K1 says: 16 January, 2017 at 6:37 pm:
“Agreed Stoker, those who are SNP can take on board Robert’s advice but for those of us not members, we should chase it up in our own way.”
I believe I did say that writing and emailing your MPs and MSPs was all very well but to assure there was action for party members to work via their local branch.
If I gave any impression I was dismissive of the letter writing and emailing then I’m sorry as I had no intention to do so,
Andrew Mclean at 11.36
He is both.
@Rock
`Talk straight to the Scottish people and they will listen`,
probably true,
but because of the lies and misinformation and unionist propaganda spewed out 24/7 by our hacks and media it becomes hard to break out of 45% pro Independence,
the 6% needed must be made to see the apocalypse coming to UK before they will change from No to Yes,
unless you have any better idea how to get the 6%?
Russia is a Partner for Peace with NATO, same as Ireland, same as was the SNP’s initial inention before the switch to full NATO membership in that autumn conference:
link to nato.int
Anybody ever wondered if Rock and Sententious Dave are one and the same, they come out at different times of the day and night? (Just throwing a fat squib in the fire. Night all)
@Rock says: 16 January, 2017 at 11:10 pm:
” … You are a citizen of the political entity that is called the UK, not Robert Peffers’ shite and pedantry about “kingdoms”.
That reply certainly made my day. What the hell do you think the initial letters you just typed, “UK”, stand for?
“Uncooked Kipper”, perhaps?
They mean United KINGDOM
Perhaps you think they don’t mean, “United Kingdom”, but really mean, “United Dairy”.
They mean United KINGDOM. – nothing more and nothing less. What is more no one in the United Kingdom is legally recognised by Westminster as being a citizen of the United Kingdom because the United Kingdom is claimed by Westminster to be a, “Constitutional Monarchy”, and in a ,”Constitutional Monarchy”, the Monarch owns everything including the monarchs subjects.
Note that it is Her Majesty’s Government, Her Royal Navy, Her Royal Mint and the Prime Minister is Her Majesty’s Prime Minister and that is not his or her official title as per the Government. BTW: commit a crime and you get hauled before the court in a case titled Her Majesty Vs A.N. Other.
This is the whole point. The truth is that it really is legally a United Kingdom as it united two independent kingdoms but Westminster has assumed that they are sovereign over the entire United Kingdom but the truth is they are not.
The law change that made the Kingdom of England a Constitutional Monarchy happened before the Union and thus is not applicable to the Kingdom of Scotland and in Scotland in 1707 the people of Scotland , (and not the monarchy), are even today sovereign by law and thus Westminster cannot be legally sovereign over Scots or Scotland and it says so in the Treaty of Union.
Go read the bloody thing.
The SNP should start referring to the Health Service as Health Scotland or the Scottish health Service or whatever they decide
Re-branding makes sense especially when one of the RuK MPs has just indicated that privatization is a likelihood
‘If I gave any impression I was dismissive of the letter writing and emailing then I’m sorry as I had no intention to do so’
Not at all Robert…if I’ve given the impression that I took yours to mean you were dismissive of the letter writing and emailing, then I’m sorry as I had no intention to do so either. 🙂
Barnett Consequntials.
Scotland DOES (or will) get them for HS2. I seem to remember that Scotland’s benefit from UK infrastructure of HS2 was assessed at 3%, so we would get money for the rest, and the latest figure I vaguely remember was £5.9 billion. Here it is from the Welsh point of view which mentions Scotland. Wales was also assessed as Birmingham being a great rail hub for it. Sigh. Birmingham is in England.
link to iwa.wales
Crossrail also attracted Barnett Consequentials (FOI): “In summary, while Scotland has received a Barnett share of consequentials from the Crossrail project, it is not possible to identify the specific amount received. ”
link to whatdotheyknow.com
London sewage – nothing specific, but probably same as the Crossrail.
I think this is a “Sep” myth. That doesn’t mean I think the full consequentials are given all the same, the Treasury and UK accounting are arcane and obscure.
The English are running down their NHS through media and bad politics so as to make it easier to sell it off to the Americans,
are Labour and Tory and BBC in Scotland doing the same as their Westminster masters or is it just a blind hatred of anything Scottish/SNP.
Ouch! Rock, you just got skelped hard by Robert on that one….dare ye tae show some humility and admit you are way off beam wi your ‘shite and pedantry about “kingdoms”.
Crossrail is a bit of a difficult case anyway by the way. It’s largely privately funded, but a cap was put on and the UK taxpayer liable for overspending. Well, it has / did go over budget I think, so there would then be direct Barnett consequentials.
ScotGov really should publish small papers about this, it does us no favours.
Ian M @ 12.15
Who indicated what Ian!!!!What did I miss??
Really not being lazy have been playing catch up all day.
Rock,
Don’t take it to hard,
Here is lesson one
link to youtube.com
🙂
Hi Andrew McLean.
RE: your video link and the “Edinboro’ vaults”. As you will know, I typed about the Glasgow equivalent in ‘off-topic’ a wee while ago.
May be of interest to Glaswegians…
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Scotland should be rich! Really rich.
O/T sorry but just watched ‘Wealth of a Nation’ short film via movingimage.nls.uk. 1938. Nation, they called Scotland a ‘nation’ and wealthy? Was Scotland independent and not sending tons of revenues to London then? They talk about it as if Scotland was doing very well for ‘her’self, from all of the huge,varied and obviously very lucrative industries, thank you very much.
Then I watched ‘Port Health Authority’, blimey I didn’t know so much was imported into Scottish ports from all four corners of the planet at that time, 1930s again I think. Some exports, but not sure how much, seemed to be more imports. Rev Stu wouldn’t like it they have to kill the ships rats in case of plague! Poor things, so sad. Oh and cringe they inspect the foreign (black) ship workers for disease as well. 🙁
Then, ‘Heart of Scotland’, all about Stirling and the Forth etc, all fascinating, some patronising too of course as usual. These films are copyrighted, so can’t share, but open to you if you visit the sight. The one with the housewives (or some not so low clarse as houswives!) being interviewed about joining the Common Market in 1967, called ’56 North Farming’, bizarrely, is a blast.
@Rock
How can Scotland stay a member of the EU? That’s an easy one Rock, they, the sovereign member states of Europe simply recognise Scotland as an independent sovereign state before we leave. The groundwork for doing that exists, since even the UN, and indeed the U.K., recognise the United Kingdom as comprised of two countries, a principality and a province. Scotland the entity exists, is clearly defined, and only lacking international recognition of its sovereign independence.
Scotland lives under EU jurisdiction right now as much as any independent sovereign state. That isn’t going to change. What does change is Scotland securing its own sovereignty, and capacity to speak for itself within these existing parameters, and that can happen without ever leaving the EU jurisdiction.
I suppose you could make the argument it isn’t automatic, and not 100% certain, however there a two points to remember there; first, a bit like Article 50, there is no robust method or mechanism for removing our European citizenship from us where we choose to keep it, but secondly, and more importantly, the EU is giving us every indication possible that recognition of an independent Scotland, and endorsement of its status as an ongoing membership would be a formality. It would also remain a formality supposing Scotland needed to enter a transitional status pending completion of the independence seeking process. Europe is giving Scotland as much of a green light as it properly can.
That isn’t pie in the sky optimism, that is the reality on the ground. It is what WILL happen once Scotland has its individual sovereignty emancipated from the bùrach that is Westminster.
Morning again, cheers fur yer sharings yesterday.
I went back out to the Clydeside Expressway last night to see the “Is the BBC MIS-REPORTING SCOTLAND?” billboard. Indeed it was there, looks excellent, turns out they put it up on the middle-left billboard, so much for my previous prophecy hehe.
Got to say, the poster looks really good in the flesh, eye-catching for sure.
The other poster that I mentioned could be indirectly related to Donalda had been removed as well.. that advert was for McDonalds chicken 🙂
I hope people get the chance to walk or cycle along to the billboard sometime at the weekend and see it for themselves..
Maybe get a couple of oil drum burners on the go for through the night!
I see in the far south, the British Establisment is having to react quickly as a massive fissure has opened up beneath their feet which has the potential to swallow them up completely.
By unbelievable coincidence, half a world away there’s also something very similar happened to the British Halley IV Antarctic Research Station. Is that an omen or what? Even the planet is giving us the nod.
I wonder if the Rooks at the Tower of London are under close protection these days.
SO, how are all of the other billboards looking throughout Scotland?
Can wait to see all of your photographs and videos.
Beep-Beep!
And now, it’s over to Theresa for todays weather..
What’s the outlook for today Theresa?
Are we in for a cold snap?
Any sign of an improvement in the conditions?
Is that band of high pressure still moving in from the south?
73 days MAX to go.
Links
link to arcofprosperity.org
link to indyref2.scot
Scotland Office must act to keep Green Investment Bank open say Greens
link to greens.scot
Kezia Dugdale in call for new dedicated cities minister
link to archive.is
link to thecanary.co
Northern Ireland election could become re-run of the EU referendum
link to archive.is
Brexit trade deal with US ‘puts NHS, environment and food safety all at risk’, Theresa May warned
link to archive.is
link to euractiv.com
Pound sterling slumps below euro
link to archive.is
Donald Trump’s tax threats wipe €4.5bn off Germany’s top car companies stocks
link to archive.is
link to ibtimes.co.uk?
Welcome to the ‘Trump Legitimiser Club’, Michael Gove – your membership comes at a moral cost
link to archive.is
Nana: Good Morning
Thank you, Kettle’s on
Peace Always
OT
Lewis MacDonald trolling on twitter and pretending to gave suffered abuse due to his English accent.
Female staffer then claims she tweeted the comment in error but refers to herself as an ‘Englishman’?
link to mobile.twitter.com
No mention of billboards on BBC Breakfast where you are at 8.00am today. The dog is bored and has gone back to sleep.
Ach, apologies. Tweet does in fact say English person.
@Smallaxe
Good morning, you keeping well I hope? I’ve still not caught up with posts on off topic, must take a look later today.
@Cactus
I read somewhere yesterday a couple of pictures were put on inform Scotland facebook for the photo competition.
Nana:
I’m fine thanks, if your going to O/T you will need therapy, you have been warned. 🙂
Peace Always
@Nana
Couple of standout articles in the IBTimes piece and the Independent there Nana. They’ve pretty much nailed it IMV.
Many thanks. 🙂
People have been phoning in to Nick Ferrari’s show on LBC this morning about Brexit. Not one of those that I heard were remainers. The general opinion was that we should leave now and worry about negotiations later, which seems suicidal to me.
A picture of lemmings rushing over a cliff came to mind when listening to them. Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland weren’t even mentioned.
Lewis mcdonald caught out lying on twitter….
Is this a case of inciting race hate?
he always was an idiot, he will not be able to take part in any indyref2 discussions on the tv. #bustedflush
Re the tweet by Lewis McDonald, does anyone remember the unionists and media hounding of Neil Hay. Dugdale wanted him sacked as a candidate did she not? But of course as we all know unionist trolls are perfectly acceptable.
I do hope an snp or green msp will be asking a question in regards to the McDonald tweet.
I can hear the answer already “someone else did it and ran away”
Interesting articles in the Herald, including an agenda item by Phillips O’Brien. Will be interesting to see what happens there, but not in my opinion till Article 50 actually invoked. Scotsman too seems to be manoeuverting to the midfield.
O/T maybe.
Interesting piece by Fintan O’Toole in the Irish Times re DUP involvement in Brexit.
Murky goings on indeed.
link to archive.is
Help I have run out of popcorn and its not funny now.
Pravdasound4 had Paul Nuttall on to discuss the approaching Mayhem speech on the Today programme. He told the world Trump loved us, was “an Anglophobe” (!) and would cut us a great deal on trade.
What a plank.
And how many seats does UKIP have? Strangely, not one of the 56 SNP MPs asked for her/his opinion, or the FM, before I switched off in disgust.
Love the way my news gets “shaped”.
Nana says:
“ … risk that this could be a Trojan horse for NHS privatisation. ”
And, there will be no exemption for the SNHS.
It will be powerful ammunition for IndyRef2 to highlight that Brexit means a TIPP-on-steroids type deal with the US which also means the hard right dream of dumping the ‘burden’ of healthcare into private hands.
“Vote NO for NHS privatisation” and “Vote YES to stop NHS privatisation” are a powerful message.
It would be fascinating to see how many of the well known unionist trolls are elected officials.
Lewis MacDonald is, as others say, a busted flush. Spreading discord and hate through bare faced lying. What a diddie!
One of Nana’s links reminded me of Tony Benn’s questions …
If one meets a powerful person—ask them five questions:
What power have you got?
Where did you get it from?
In whose interests do you exercise it?
To whom are you accountable?
And how can we get rid of you?
Wise suggestions indeed. Not even necessarily to ask them face to face, but to consider where someone with power stands. Basically, whose side are they actually on?
@ John H – I listened to the R4 interview on BREXIT. Who did they interview? Lord Mandelson and Paul Nuttall. Neither of them MPs, neither representative of the electorate.
The media are promoting BREXIT, Trump and the death of the EU at every opportunity. So no surprise that phone=ins invite a Britnat festival. Not even going to listen to call KayE.
Meet Lewis McDonald’s fallgirl
link to twitter.com
LOL – Staffer takes the fall for McDonald – what a man. A real internet warrior.
Capella says:
“Not even going to listen to call KayE”
Capella. I NEVER listen to call Kay-e. At least not for the past year or so. By listening to LBC at least I can get an idea of how they’re thinking in the London bubble. The average person down there can’t be that stupid. As you say, completely brainwashed by the media and their politicians.
Intereting opinion piece by David Marquand in the Guardian that might give Rock some food for thought…
link to archive.is
@yesindyref2 says: 17 January, 2017 at 12:26 am:
“Barnett Consequntials. Scotland DOES (or will) get them for HS2.”
It is not difficult to identify if Barnett Consequentials are or are not due. Simply look at from whence the funding for the English projects come from. Infrastructure in England is generally supposed to come out of DEFRA funding and that does carry Barnett Consequentials. If it doesn’t ask yourself why not.
Thus, If the funds for any English infrastructure project are not from DEFRA then be very, very suspicious. Take for example the case of the one-off Government Grant made to help start up TfL, (Transport for London), this grant was made from Government Reserves that do not carry Barnett Consequentials. It was just a free gift to London.
The New London Sewerage System also came from Government Reserves and that scheme also included a one-of cash reduction for every household in the area served by the water company on their Water & Sewerage Bills. Thus the rest of the UK made free gifts to London and to London residents.
Then we had the refurbishment of every rail & bus terminal in London – that too was contributed to by all of the UK.
Even such things as the infrastructure associated with the Chunnel. I’m not sure of the actual tunnel itself but the supporting rail and road network changes did not get funded by DEFRA, so who paid for them and who benefited from them?
The great number of, “National Assets”, designated as benefitting all of the UK is extensive. From the Greenwich Observatory to National Monuments, museums, galleries and such as theatres, ballet, opera. et al. Most of it in London but some elsewhere in England.
It is a racket and it always has been.
They, (Westminster), are quite open about their attitude as to what the situation is. As far as they go Westminster is the Parliament of England and England is the master race that owns the other United Kingdom countries. However, they also class their only Kingdom Partner in the UK as just another English annexed country.
Everything about it oozes their English entitlement to rule over us all and they no longer treat Scotland as an equally sovereign partner Kingdom but as just another of England’s annexed countries.
Yet the only legal evidence of the relationship of the kingdoms of the United Kingdom is the Act of Union of 1707 and the wrongly designated , “Treaty of Union,(sic), 1800/1.
The so called Treaty of Union of 1800 and 1801 actually was not a treaty of union. Its actual designation is officially the, “Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland”.
It is/was an agreement between the government of the, “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland”, and representatives of the, “Irish Republic”, that officially ended the Irish War of Independence. Note that the, “other side”, was the, “Irish Republic”, and that the UK then already included Ireland and had done since 1707.
As it did NOT include the Irish Republic, though, it cannot be a Treaty of Union as the UK is NOT united with the Republic of Ireland? It simply was not a Treaty of Union. However, what of the, “Treaty”, (sic), of 1921?
The terms of that Treaty, (sic), were that the UK Government agreed to concede dominion status to the south of Ireland it was to be known as the, “Irish Free State”. The Head of State would remain the King, with a Governor-General as his representative in Dublin. Various office-holders, including parliamentarians, would have to take an oath of loyalty to the Crown. Three ports in the south would remain British territory for reasons of imperial security.
So Ireland was designated as being within the British Commonwealth but its obligations as a dominion of the UK remained undefined. So that was not a, “Treaty of Union either”.
” … I think this is a “Sep” myth. That doesn’t mean I think the full consequentials are given all the same, the Treasury and UK accounting are arcane and obscure.”
Nah! The myth is that there was a Treaty of Union that added a new Kingdom to the bipartite United Kingdom called Northern Ireland. There is no such Treaty of Union.
Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland from 1801 to 1922. For almost all of this period, the island was governed by the UK Parliament in London through its Dublin Castle administration in Ireland.
Civil war broke out even before the declaration of the Irish Free State on December 6, 1922, and ended with the victory of the Irish Free State over the Irish Republican forces in 1923. A constitution was adopted by the Irish people in 1937 that declared Ireland to be “a sovereign, independent, democratic state,” and the Irish Free State was renamed Eire. In 1949 the Republic of Ireland Act severed the last remaining link with the Commonwealth.
So there you go – No Treaty of Union with Northern Ireland and the final severing of the ties as late as 1949 by a declaration by the people of the Republic and not by the UK government. It was, if you like, a Republic of Ireland declaration of UDI.
Meanwile in Germany, the news of a Hard brexit is met with joy?
This is a standard post on German media.
“I see in the Brexit at least an opportunity for Deutschaland: According to the federal government, we lack 200,000 nurses in the next eight years to look after the growing number of elderly people.
link to bundesgesundheitsministerium.de
(The Association of Private Pflegedienste is even out of a 400,000 specialist gap.)
At the same time, 1/3 of nurses from the NHS came from abroad. These excellently trained specialists are now being depreciated into “second-class people”.
Let us take this chance! It will be time for the Federation and the Länder to offer a great deal of German courses for nurses – and with a targeted promotion campaign EU nurses from the UK will win for Germany!
link to immigrantspirit.com
We offer secure jobs, food you can digest, beer that actually has foam – and a country where foreign people are welcome and their contribution is appreciated.”
And this is one from a Scot
“Why the talk of finance, It is who we are that is important, we are all Europeans, surely the E.U will not allow millions of its citizens in Scotland to be abandoned.
I am a Scottish and European. Let little England be swallowed up by Trump, see how that ends.
Scotland needs your help my European brothers and Sisters, don’t let us down.”
I could say more but. Little eyes are watching.
I came on to see what folks are saying today about the state of things today, that’s why I read Wings and all the posters on it, and like everybody else agree with most and dissagree with few because we’re all pretty much in agreement about pretty much of what’s needed
But today like some other days I find myself not reading Wings but having to sift through the complete and total dickwordings of the @Rock blog and I don’t normally get into spats with folk because in the end it’s kinda pointless but I’m afraid @Rock is mentally irregular in his thinking and it seems his mission in life is soley to piss everybody else off just because he can
There are some clever people on here and I’m interested in their opinions on stuff and it really is annoying that they take time out of their lives from contributing interesting stuff to be sidetracked into replying to @Rocks obsession with himself
If this offends @Rock he can have a go at me too but I wont reply because folks, he’s not a reasonable person, he’s a narcissisist who will never stop
I’m not having a go at the real people BTW coz we know who we are, I don’t believe @Rock is
Lewis McDonald’s patsy also RT’ing this kind of JC stuff,
Jeremy Corbyn MP ?@jeremycorbyn Jan 15
We have to change this rigged system. Enough is enough.
We’ll hand back wealth & control to people & communities
Over huge Mirror photo of Bill Gates.
link to twitter.com
Cant see old JC reaching into Bill Gates golden cash mountain somehow. Why didnt likes of Crash Gordo do this kind of wealth & control handing back etc.
From Gunter G
posting on German media
“Perhaps this stupidity makes us into better Europeans in 5 years than we ever were. And Scotland may even become one of the engines for it. Probably some people have to lose something, so they can appreciate it.”
looks like he isn’t a fan of innovative jam.
When shale gas extraction was proposed in England, DC offers to share the profit in cash with the locals.
Westminster stole our oil lied about it, keeps the money, called us beggars and poor, then are trying to land us with the bill to clean up the mess.
they say we are in a worse state that Greece!
That’s it I am calling the police and reporting a hate crime!
I’m not having a go at the real people BTW coz we know who we are, I don’t believe @Rock is
WoS is a fairly open “forum” so it should be just like everywhere else, online or real world, yoon culture injecting misinfo, fear, doubt, poison etc. Rock, sensible and now that git Pete are merely the WoS variant.
Its how the tory UKOK zone works. Its how all tory BBC led media works and it’s wrong to pretend it’s not happening.
Follow the fire, not the smoke. No idea what that actually means but I like it:D
Robert Peffers is a dangerous man… in a good way. 😀
Why do you think the Lord Advocate cited the articles of union and the claim of right in the recent SC case?
Because they are relevant. These things were relevant before 1707 and every day thereafter.
They are the foundation of our society and our rights. To some, this history stuff might be boring, but those who ignore it, do so at their own peril. The history of relations between nations is written in treaties and laws.
Being aware of our history, our society, our rights and our culture is the best defence against those who would rewrite the history books and the laws of the land in their favour.
Andrew McLean says:
Interesting. I get the impression the other 27 are beginning to see Brexit as a golden opportunity to ‘asset strip’ the wayward and vulnerable UK.
As your article points out, this is an opportunity to hire migrant professional staff who may feel unwanted in the UK.
However, it goes much further. We know the finance industry will move jobs elsewhere and skilled people who can move out of the UK will follow those jobs.
Car assembly was set up in the UK to allow access to the EU. If tariffs are applied the vehicles will be assembled inside rEU, not UK.
And I’m sure this is the tip of the iceberg.
And want do ordinary people in the UK get? Dodgy American food products and private healthcare!
Apparently, we now live in “Global Britain”. As BBC Live gears up to broadcasting Theresa May’s Little Englander speech:
link to bbc.in
@yesindyref2 says: 17 January, 2017 at 12:26 am:
“Barnett Consequntials. Scotland DOES (or will) get them for HS2.”
It is not difficult to identify if Barnett Consequentials are or are not due. Simply look at from whence the funding for the English projects come from. Infrastructure in England is generally supposed to come out of DEFRA funding and that does carry Barnett Consequentials. If it doesn’t ask yourself why not.
Thus, If the funds for any English infrastructure project are not from DEFRA then be very, very suspicious. Take for example the case of the one-off Government Grant made to help start up TfL, (Transport for London), this grant was made from Government Reserves that do not carry Barnett Consequentials. It was just a free gift to London.
The New London Sewerage System also came from Government Reserves and that scheme also included a one-of cash reduction for every household in the area served by the water company on their Water & Sewerage Bills. Thus the rest of the UK made free gifts to London and to London residents.
link to walesonline.co.uk
Then we had the refurbishment of every rail & bus terminal in London – that too was contributed to by all of the UK.
Even such things as the infrastructure associated with the Chunnel. I’m not sure of the actual tunnel itself but the supporting rail and road network changes did not get funded by DEFRA, so who paid for them and who benefited from them?
The great number of, “National Assets”, designated as benefitting all of the UK is extensive. From the Greenwich Observatory to National Monuments, museums, galleries and such as theatres, ballet, opera. et al. Most of it in London but some elsewhere in England.
It is a racket and it always has been.
They, (Westminster), are quite open about their attitude as to what the situation is. As far as they go Westminster is the Parliament of England and England is the master race that owns the other United Kingdom countries. However, they also class their only Kingdom Partner in the UK as just another English annexed country.
Everything about it oozes their English entitlement to rule over us all and they no longer treat Scotland as an equally sovereign partner Kingdom but as just another of England’s annexed countries.
Yet the only legal evidence of the relationship of the kingdoms of the United Kingdom is the Act of Union of 1707 and the wrongly designated , “Treaty of Union,(sic), 1800/1.
The so called Treaty of Union of 1800 and 1801 actually was not a treaty of union. Its actual designation is officially the, “Articles of Agreement for a Treaty Between Great Britain and Ireland”.
It is/was an agreement between the government of the, “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland”, and representatives of the, “Irish Republic”, that officially ended the Irish War of Independence. Note that the, “other side”, was the, “Irish Republic”, and that the UK then already included Ireland and had done since 1707.
As it did NOT include the Irish Republic, though, it cannot be a Treaty of Union as the UK is NOT united with the Republic of Ireland? It simply was not a Treaty of Union. However, what of the, “Treaty”, (sic), of 1921?
The terms of that Treaty, (sic), were that the UK Government agreed to concede dominion status to the south of Ireland it was to be known as the, “Irish Free State”. The Head of State would remain the King, with a Governor-General as his representative in Dublin. Various office-holders, including parliamentarians, would have to take an oath of loyalty to the Crown. Three ports in the south would remain British territory for reasons of imperial security.
So Ireland was designated as being within the British Commonwealth but its obligations as a dominion of the UK remained undefined. So that was not a, “Treaty of Union either”.
” … I think this is a “Sep” myth. That doesn’t mean I think the full consequentials are given all the same, the Treasury and UK accounting are arcane and obscure.”
Nah! The myth is that there was a Treaty of Union that added a new Kingdom to the bipartite United Kingdom called Northern Ireland. There is no such Treaty of Union.
Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland from 1801 to 1922. For almost all of this period, the island was governed by the UK Parliament in London through its Dublin Castle administration in Ireland.
Civil war broke out even before the declaration of the Irish Free State on December 6, 1922, and ended with the victory of the Irish Free State over the Irish Republican forces in 1923. A constitution was adopted by the Irish people in 1937 that declared Ireland to be “a sovereign, independent, democratic state,” and the Irish Free State was renamed Eire. In 1949 the Republic of Ireland Act severed the last remaining link with the Commonwealth.
So there you go – No Treaty of Union with Northern Ireland and the final severing of the ties as late as 1949 by a declaration by the people of the Republic and not by the UK government. It was, if you like, a Republic of Ireland declaration of UDI.
Follow the fire, not the smoke. No idea what that actually means but I like it:D
Time to start our own fire, cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war, well social media war dogs anyway!
Interesting that Social media in Europe is massively hostile to any special deal and see it as a great opportunity to cherry pick the remains of the good ship UKOK as it sinks beneath the waves, and if it isn’t sinking fast enough and could de-stable the E.u a few well aimed torpedoes under the waterline is sure to do the trick, fur you Tommy ez var is over!
Macart says:
Definitely. Also, everything May et al are trying to do reference back to Royal Prerogative and the Bill of Rights 1688, ie the pre 1707 English constitutional framework. The Scottish equivalents are just as valid.
It would look like that Ms Mayhem will trigger Indyref2 in 15 minutes
This is good 🙂
Mrs May: we must, post-brexit, come together as a nation. Obviously she can only speak of the nation called England.
@galamcennalath
And that’s the very point. 🙂
We have rights as individuals, as Scots, as a nation partner, as an entity prior to and currently, within this political union.
Some folks would rather we weren’t aware of that fact, or that if we were vaguely aware of it, would dismiss it as somehow unimportant in today’s world.
The detail is NEVER unimportant and those who refuse to learn from history… etc 🙂
Capella says:
17 January, 2017 at 11:27 am
Apparently, we now live in “Global Britain”. As BBC Live gears up to broadcasting Theresa May’s Little Englander speech:
BBC Scotland new and exciting Teresa’s up yours EU speech intro, like this one,
link to youtube.com
Women/Scotland, know your limits.
link to youtube.com
Sure as shite, says ah tae the full moon as she rose in the heavens on the 12th instant, we’ll be hearin fae Rock!
Here comes May’s token Tartan jacket.
Tory pillock on Sky saying cliff edge is better than transition period because that might take us to the next GE and everything might be revisited.
Jeez! They really don’t like democracy, do they?
Ah think we should mibbi rethink this Independence malarkey.
She is wearing tartan, comoan….That’s goat tae mean sumthin?
Naw?? Oh well.
Ms May speaking to the country in her Cameronian business suit & that’s the only to send a subliminal message to Scot.
Naw am no ah fashion consultant.
I think most Scots will she her tartan-ness as condescension, if not ignorant insult.
“Promise to put our precious union at the heart of everything we do” blah blah blah de bloody blah
Aye Theresa you mean ‘precious oil’
@ liz g She kin wear the Cameroon tartan fur aw we care
Hard Brexit it is – with the vague promise of repatriated powers for the devolved Governments.
Would you buy a used trade deal from this woman?
The Goverment will put the final deal to both houses HoC / HoL so what was the Supreme Court farce all about.
What’s Ruthie babes using to divert,
Ruth Davidson ?@RuthDavidsonMSP 1h1 hour ago
We can eradicate a known killer, so why aren’t we doing it? My piece on making the world landmine free by 2025.
Ruth Davidson ?@RuthDavidsonMSP 3h3 hours ago
This is our generation’s smallpox moment. Let’s lead an aid programme even DfID’s critics can get behind.
Smallpox and landmines.
Oh god, another useless britnat Vow.