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The evolution of news

Posted on October 17, 2017 by

A story on the BBC website last night:

The same story this morning:

The first version is entirely accurate. Readers can decide for themselves why someone at the BBC felt it needed to be changed from neutral terms to pejorative ones.

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    1. 17 10 17 10:57

      The evolution of news | speymouth

    2. 22 10 17 08:43

      We need better labels than Separatist/Nationalist - Autonomy Scotland

    141 to “The evolution of news”

    1. Malky says:

      Well done to you, yet again, Rev. No wonder they don’t like you.

    2. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      As ever, alert readers deserve the credit.

    3. Doug Bryce says:

      Good catch….

      It always amuses me when media describe the SNP as “nationalists” in derogatory manner.

      What they actually mean is that Scottish nationalism is an alternate view of the world to their own British nationalism. One which they feel threatened by.

      Ironically Brexit-nationalism has consumed the UK.
      However blinded by the hubris they cant see it.
      When will Westminster get on with the day job of running the country….

      Good luck to Catalonia getting the fair and legal vote it deserves.

    4. Dan Huil says:

      Another clasic example of British nationalist bbc duplicity. Kudos to alert reader.

      Don’t pay the bbc tax.

    5. Nigel says:

      To be blunt, they are in prison. Nothing less. No bail.

      Liz Castro among others is keeping tabs on things.

      https://twitter.com/lizcastro/status/920205041440645120

      It makes you think what we might encounter is Indyref2 goes ahead without ‘consent’…

    6. Morgatron says:

      They really are very anti democratic at the BEEB. Now I wonder who on earth is driving this – Phanar Phanar.

    7. Fred says:

      I don’t hear Tories like May, Davidson & Co being so described!

    8. heedtracker says:

      BBC is a neo fascist outfit, Simple as that/

    9. Lollysmum says:

      Because it’s the BBC & they like to be snidey, sneaky & insulting wherever they can.

    10. Scott McNaughton says:

      Best story of the year. Sums up BBC political policy in one sentence.

    11. iheartScotland says:

      Damned ‘Separatists’, who knew language could be so divisive?
      Well, the BBC of course. ….
      The language of the BBC is all we need to know about them.( par for the course)

    12. artyhetty says:

      I see that Euronews are also calling the people who have been locked up by Spain, ‘separatists’.

      Spain forgetting this is actuallly 2017.

      The BBC, not to be outdone, are a disgrace in changing that headline to attempt to steer opinion of those tuning into their opinion driven, so called news.

      Should we be surprised though, they were quite keen on using the word, ‘separation’, not independence, in the run up to Scotland’s referendum in 2014. Not sure if they stopped short of using the word, ‘separatists’, probably find it there somewhere.

    13. Geoff Huijer says:

      Subtle as a brick.

      But remember Brexiteers are never described as ‘separatists’.

    14. Alex Clark says:

      I’d like to know who is in charge of changing headlines to suit a certain political agenda. Are there “political officers” working in the BBC who’s job is to scrutinise headlines and modify where required.

      It wouldn’t surprise me to find out that there are such positions. Pravda Officers.

      Plug for the fundraiser which is almost there, help fight BBC bias.

      https://www.gofundme.com/battlebbcbias

    15. donald anderson says:

      Brit Imperialists support Spanish Imperialists.

    16. peter newling says:

      Yet again it is clear what a significant difference there is between Scotland and Catalonia which has its own press and TV.

      As the situation in Catalonia develops it is both inspiring and depressing at the same time.

      Inspiring, obviously, to watch the huge crowds turn out. Staggering to see the restraint shown in a [so far] perfect demonstration of peaceful expression. Where are the hotheads? Where are the state police vehicles set afire. We are not used to this in UK mass protests.

      Depressing because it makes wonder – could we mobilise such numbers? In such an impressive way, peaceful and non-violent even (so far as I am aware) at the fringes?
      I don’t think we can, for many reasons – one being the colonial nature of the state broadcaster and the lack of an independent press. But I can’t help feeling it is more than that – something needs to happen to produce an urge for independence in even Proud Scots.

      I don’t wish to be negative – at least we can vent some frustrations in supporting the movement in Catalonia from a distance. Unionists mock this as getting a vicarious thrill, which is unkind but there is a grain of truth in it. But I am in need of a thrill.

    17. iheartScotland says:

      Geoff,
      No…they’re patriots..not nationalists
      …you seem confused 🙂

    18. donald anderson says:

      The Brits could teach the Spanish how to rig a referendum and save them a lot of trouble.

      Time the monkeys left Gibraltar and Scotland.

    19. Jim Watson says:

      I stated this to my wife last night – was fuming at the BBC for using the S word. It is clearly part of their agenda to delegitimise Independence campaigns wherever in the world they are happening.

      Feckers!

    20. Welsh Sion says:

      Speaking as a professional translator/linguist, I find it hard to believe that the pro-independence Ara of Barcelona would write,

      “With separatists and the Spanish government looking to see who moves the next piece, the National Court turned over the table yesterday”

      Further, would Jordi Cuixart refer to his supporters as “separatists”?:

      In a video recorded before his court appearance and released on his Twitter account after his detention, Mr Cuixart instructs separatists [sic] to “never lose hope because the people of Catalonia have earned their future”.

      Good ol’ BBC, eh?

      For those who do not know who the organisations are that these men lead thanks again, BBC for your lack of information), they are:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblea_Nacional_Catalana

      and

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%92mnium_Cultural

      Referencing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41646142

    21. Proud Cybernat says:

      Duplicitous BBC feckers. They can try and hold the line but day by day, week by week more and more people are seeing through their propaganda dressed up as ‘news’.

      Funny how BREXIT isn’t ‘separation’ it’s ‘taking back control’ (from the EU).

      Aye, well SCEXIT is taking back control from the UK ya bams.

    22. Proud Cybernat says:

      Seems relevant here too…

      BREAKING from Pravda Quay:

      https://imgur.com/ortXONP

    23. Welsh Sion says:

      A lesson in BBC semantics and echoing iheartScotland @ 11.02 a.m.

      Patriots = Unionists = Brits/Castilians = good.
      Nationalists = Separatists = Welsh/Scots/Catalans = bad.

    24. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Nigel 10.35 { It makes you think what we might encounter is Indyref2 goes ahead without ‘consent’… } .

      Aye Nigel anither fearmongerer . Indy Ref 2 will go ahead with or without Westminster May’s consent, there are no forks in the Independence road .

    25. Bill McDermott says:

      After Brewer’s efforts on Sunday Politics with Jim Sillars and Andrew Marr’s interview with Ruth Davidson at the opening of the SNP Conference it is nakedly demonstrated that the BBC are in this to create division and boost the British Nationalist agenda.

      There is no other explanation. We all need to take the Rev’s cynical approach to the British Nationalist/Establishment’s modus operandi, see through their sly way of presenting the news and declare loudly and clearly that we are not deceived.

      Truth to power? Nothing near it.

    26. Giving Goose says:

      Spain and the UK have many things in common.
      Of course, an aversion to change is one thing and that is built on other common ground.
      Both entities are monarchies.
      Both are democracies in name only.
      Both are multi ethnic, multi nation states.
      Both have populations where identity is pluralistic.
      Both have failing economies.
      Both possess very unsavoury colonial histories.

      Both are feeling vulnerable. And both must stick together and back each other up, hence the Brutish propaganda section’s output.

    27. Brian Powell says:

      As far as I know the Catalans are Remainists, they wanted to stay in the same EU as Spain is in.

    28. iheartScotland says:

      Welsh Sion,
      Thanks for that!

    29. Glamaig says:

      Welsh Sion

      Thats interesting. What actual Catalan/Spanish word did Cuixart use, any idea?

    30. iheartScotland says:

      You’re links…thnx

    31. Calum McKay says:

      The two most appropriate words I’d use for the uk state are nationalistic and separatist.

      The Catalans had the upper hand when peacefully confrontational, but now they appear to have backed off, the Spanish have pushed them onto the back foot!

      That these arrests have been made without disgust being voiced by European leaders is hugely disappointing!

      bbc whether under orders or not to make this change, absolutely disgraceful!

    32. iheartScotland says:

      Hi Brian.
      Did you notice women getting pulled out of the polling station by their hair?..just asking. .

    33. This represents the true side of the establishment

    34. Macart says:

      The truly sad thing in this, is that it’s not even surprising or shocking anymore.

    35. Hamish100 says:

      obviously the bbc have their wee separatist propaganda office HQ in England but also in Wales Northern Ireland RoI and Sootland vetting all news bulletins.

    36. Welsh Sion says:

      iheartScotland @ 11.16 – Thanks for your thanks

      Glamaig @ 11.18 – Apologies, I couldn’t tell you. I don’t work in Castilian or Catalan. (I work in Welsh, English and French). I was only lifting the quotation from the BBC piece. Hopefully, someone else with Castilian/Catalan will be able to follow the link and translate accordingly.

      (Some of you hopefully already know me with this name on Facebook … as the parabalist.)

    37. Clootie says:

      It is the thousands of the little twists in reporting World news which highlight the BBC as the propaganda tool of the U.K. Establishment. As always with the Whitehall mandarins it is complex…perhaps Spain will help the UK through the Brexit mire if the spin in their favour. However the primary motive is always to paint self determination as bad.

      A quiet word at a gentlemans club or a casual call to the right person and the News aligns with the “official line”

      ….trust the BBC…no thank you!

    38. Brian Powell says:

      iHeartScotland

      Yes, I saw all the footage. You may have misunderstood the intention of my post.

    39. galamcennalath says:

      The BBC has a job to do. Clearly in the first headline they failed in their duty. The ‘correction’ recovers the situation and complies with their ongoing agenda.

      CataloniaBaaad, and by association ScotlandBaaad.

      SeparatistsBaaad, unless they are patriotic Brexiteers who only want what’s best for their England.

      NationalistsBaaad, unless it’s British/English nationalists because of course they don’t exist.

      Totally hypocritical, but extremely consistent!

    40. gus1940 says:

      Disgust is the most appropriate word I can come up with to describe The BBC.

      A couple of minutes ago the same BBC carried a statement from Mark Carney head of BoE that inflation has reached 3% and the main cause was the fall in the value of the £ which of course is due to the Brexit Farce.

      Indeed another magnificent triumph for English Nationalists/Separatists/Racists/Xenophobes (tick all or any) and the evil forces behind The UK’s media who corrupt the minds of the populace.

    41. Jock Scot says:

      It’s beginning to look like we may need to spend a lot of time at PQ next year.

      Ronnie A. Keep the troops on alert and we can discuss stuff at the next social hopefully.

    42. Dan Huil says:

      Coming up now: britnat bbc and “concerned” commentators stating their oh-so-sincere [aye, right] worries about indyref2 and the Catalonia-ization of Scotland. To go alongside their Ulsterization of Scotland hopes.

    43. iheartScotland says:

      @ Brian,
      Apologies….no offence intended…..misunderstood your post.

    44. heedtracker says:

      ….trust the BBC…no thank you!

      On the plus side, BBC r4 vote tory news tories are simply not reporting much at all about the rolling catastrofuck that is tory rule of Scotland and England.

      Instead these gimps are pouring out incredibly high quality reportage of all kinds of issues and news, just not from their UKOK zone, but from around the world, from Africa to China, the US, beeb gimps are going all over, to not report their own tory horror show. Laura Bicker for example is one of the most heard beeb r4 voices right now.

      Laura’s everywhere and nowhere, like a lovely Scotch tory dream.

      Tory BBC propaganda’s always got an upside:D

    45. CameronB Brodie says:

      Well it is the BBC, who are Charter bound to stamp out separatist sedition, innit.

      Communication, Culture and Social Change:
      The Social Psychological Perspective

      Chapter 7: Representations, identity and resistance in communication

      Key terms
      Social Representation:
      A system of common values, ideas and practices that enable people to understand each other and communicate about similar issues. It also involves a degree of subjective interpretation that leads to differences in understanding, different readings of texts and therefore the motivation to communicate. Representations may be hegemonic, negotiated or oppositional.

      Ideology: A system of hegemonic representations that sustain the dominant cultural order. Here it is more useful to examine the ways in which communicative practices operate ideologically through the systematic manipulation of knowledge in the service of power and the defence of unequal social relations.

      Culture: Often taken to mean a broad collection of values, ideas and practices (that is a network of representations) that define a particular group or community, such as the British community or a student community. Culture is something produced in and struggled over in communicative practices.

      Cultural difference: The ideological construction of differences between cultures. This frequently invites stereotypes about ‘us’ and ‘them’ and evaluations that present certain cultures as superior. In practice when we examine cultural differences we often find that there are more similarities than differences across cultures, and therefore it is difficult to separate cultures as distinct.

      Identity: An individual’s sense of who they are in relation to others around them. This simultaneously incorporates a sense of belonging and shared knowledge and a sense of difference and individuality. Different forms of identity and so different types of social groups lead to different communicative genres.

      Resistance: The ways in which communicative exchange enables dominant representations to be challenged, rejected or transformed, for example through the articulation of oppositional representations. Here we are interested in Social Psychological change and so examine the psychological processes that enable resistance (e.g. representation) and the communicative genres that also may facilitate resistance (e.g. particular community dialogues).

      http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/35983/1/Representations,_identity_and_resistance_in_communication_(LSERO).pdf

      Media and collective identity theory revision
      https://www.slideshare.net/jphibbert1979/media-and-collective-identity-theory-revision

      Identity Process Theory
      Identity, Social Action and Social Change

      We live in an ever-changing social world, which constantly demands adjustment to our identities and actions. Advances in science, technology and medicine, political upheaval and economic development are just some examples of social change that can impact upon how we live our lives, how we view ourselves and each other, and how we communicate. Three decades after its first appearance, Identity Process Theory remains a vibrant and useful integrative framework in which identity, social action and social change can be collectively examined. This book presents some of the key developments in this area. In eighteen chapters by world-renowned social psychologists, the reader is introduced to the major social psychological debates about the construction and protection of identity in the face of social change. Contributors address a wide range of contemporary topics – national identity, risk, prejudice, intractable conflict and ageing – which are examined from the perspective of Identity Process Theory.

      http://assets.cambridge.org/97811070/22706/frontmatter/9781107022706_frontmatter.pdf

    46. heedtracker says:

      Has there ever been a harder vote tory campaign than the ongoing propaganda war for future First Minister Colonel Ruth.

      They’ve got to be giant union jack tank cakes, that fire cream cannon at separatists.

      https://stv.tv/news/politics/1400086-ruth-davidson-to-star-in-great-british-bake-off-special/

    47. louis.b.argyll says:

      There seems to be, at the BBC, a (yes further) ramping-up of Britishness.

      Patronising regionalism, cringy flag use, posh squaddies on telly, all squashed in-between global destruction and social catastrophes. Almost all delivered by BBC Tory bum boys and their female equivalent.

      Like- real, fake, real, fake, real-fake, weather. Repeat.

    48. geeo says:

      BBC daily politics lead…

      “OECD say British economy could be disasterously ruined by No Deal, unless there is a 2nd referendum which reverses brexit, are the OECD just international project fear”…?

      ‘Nuff said.

    49. Ken500 says:

      Pungdemont owns the Catalonia TV station. Pushing out his propaganda. He used to be a journalist, Then was Mayor of Girona.

      There is no fair and free demicracy in the world where that would happen. He did not get either votes on an extremely low turnouts. The opposition boycotted the vote. They will reap what they are sowing. A bunch of lying halfwits. The Spanish Gov had to borrow £Billions from the EU ECB to bail out Catalonia and the Costas.

      The poorer in rural Spain have been most effected by the banking crash, The Catalonian administration have refused to pay anything back. There were expected to pay £4Billion to the Federal,administration. That would have gone to the help poorer rural parts of Spain. The wealthiest province. Catalonia was the least affected,. They refused to pay the £4Billion. The Spanish Supreme Court backed them up they don not have to pay it.

      They are all bastards. Looking after number one. (Like London S/E) Tories screwing everyone else. They muck up everyone else. They could take down the Spanish economy. Take down the euro. Lower euro rate means Catalonia doesn’t have to pay back so much. Support Independence in Catalonia has averaged about 30%. Most of them are not interested.

      They don’t even come out to vote. 30/40% turnouts. Apathetic they despise all politicians in most cases. They like it when they go to jail. They will go to jail. There will be no messing. They are a lot of crooks. The lot of them. Spanish/Catalonian etc. The EU knows exactly what is going on. They had to guarantee the loans, They have to be paid back. Spain has a lot less debt than the UK. Like most in the eurozone. They have to carry less debt. A better ratio of capital to debt. Makes them better off in the long run. More money for essential services.

    50. louis.b.argyll says:

      UK economy / strategy getting laughed at on Bloomers.

      Scotland needs out of this casino union, where the Conservatives are the perpetual bankers.

    51. Glamaig says:

      Welsh Sion

      the BBC link to Ara goes here
      http://www.ara.cat/politica/LAudiencia-decreta-fianca-Sanchez-Cuixart_0_1889211135.html

      There isnt a phrase in the article like the BBC have quoted but the article uses ‘independentista’, not ‘separatista’. Surprise surprise, the BBC have deliberately changed the wording in their translation.

    52. Nigel says:

      ronnie anderson says:

      “Aye Nigel anither fearmongerer . Indy Ref 2 will go ahead with or without Westminster May’s consent, there are no forks in the Independence road .”

      Yes, I agree – but there will be barriers, particularly if there’s no ‘consent’ and we need to be prepared for them and well in advance. I am giving this a lot of thought as our local branch here has started to hit the indy campaign trail once again. Feedback from campaigning on our street stall (alongside others) in Inverness on Sat 30th Sept indicated that many are cooling on the EU, for example. How do we develop a strategy for that before the real campaigning starts, with a Indyref date on the horizon?

      The CAT situation provides something of a road map of what we might expect to see – particularly from the EU – its not keen on small nation states.

      https://twitter.com/OttoOzols/status/918921742806118401

      This time the Yes campaign, in whatever form it takes, needs to be better prepared. Also as many are pointing out today, the state establishment and its ill-informed supporters will throw up barriers – the ruling elite are scared and Spain has shown how scared. The similarities between Spain and UK were clearly outline in a post above. We cannot go into another campaign armed with optimism and nothing else. We are lucky that our Catalan colleagues have gone this far, at such cost and given us an insight as to how much we must prepare next time round.

    53. louis.b.argyll says:

      Lol, that’s a Bloomberg.

    54. Ken500 says:

      Davidson really like her cakes. She could fall flat. They might not rise.

    55. Derick fae Yell says:

      From the same article

      “Just hours before the ruling, the High Court freed the head of Catalonia’s police force, Josep Lluis Trapero.

      His force, the Mossos d’Esquadra, is accused of failing to help Spain’s Guardia Civil police tackle thousands of pro-independence protesters in Barcelona during the run-up to the referendum.”

      BBC Pravda

    56. louis.b.argyll says:

      Ken,
      But Spain chooses to arm itself to the teeth within NATO.. Instead of investing in poorer areas..or youth unemployment.

      Catalonia cannot be held accountable for Spanish inadequacies. Shouldn’t give cash back to be squandered.

    57. Admiral says:

      I cannot help but wonder at the UK media’s kowtowing to the Foreign Office’s desire to support “our great ally Spain”, in defending its wonderful constitution against those dreadful Catalan separatists. The same Spanish constitution that claims Gibraltar for its own, the same claim that the same UK media got its collective knickers in a twist about, calling for war against Spain.

    58. Patrick Roden says:

      Sorta OT,

      In other news, it seems the Daily Record/Kezia Dugdale may be helping protect criminals who are guilty of serious sex crimes, from prosecution!

      There’s recently been a well publicised story in America, in which a sex predator is accused of abusing and raping women over a period of years, and Kez has stated that in her experience is, there’s been men like this in every place she has worked.

      Obviously the place where Kez has worked for most of her life has been within the Labour Party, so she really needs to stop ‘carping from the sidelines’ and name and shame the culprits that she knows about.

      Didn’t she work under a very dodgy old pest, with an alleged drink problem, who was arrested for harassing women down in London?
      Is he one of these predators?

      She is pointedly telling everyone who has experienced these types of predators, that they should not just stand there and let this behaviour continue without challenge, yet like the huge hypocrite that most Labour MP/MSPs seem to always end up being, she remains silent on the identities of the Labour MP/MSP’s who she experienced sexually harassing people, in the offices where she worked.

      If Kez knows that women who are probably in no position to report these perverts, without being sacked for ‘being difficult’ then she is surely committing at least a dreadful moral crime, and perhaps even a criminal offence.

      Does the Daily Record now share some responsibility?

      Perhaps some people who know a lot more than me about the law can enlighten us to the legality of Kezia knowing some women are being, or have been sexually harassed, yet not reporting this to the police?

    59. heedtracker says:

      Beeb Scotland gimp network applauds future Scottish First Minister Colonel Ruth entrance the great British cake back off debate, but somehow, exact same beeb gimps never seem to ask Colonel Ruth about some of the less important issues of their tory UK day, such as…

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-oecd-eu-referendum-second-economy-reverse-uk-europe-theresa-may-latest-a8004676.html

    60. HandandShrimp says:

      Yet another example of the complete failure of the BBC at balanced and neutral journalism. Probably changed after a call from the Spanish embassy.

      Everything is spin and propaganda, trust not a word they say for they seek to form opinion not inform.

    61. Proud Cybernat says:

      Ruth Davidson to kick-off Great British Bake-Off with a fluted orange cake she calls ‘Bigot Delight’.

    62. Jack Murphy says:

      The Ministry of Truth in Scotland must have been on the ‘phone overnight to London MOT Control—-.

      Trust them?
      Never.

    63. HandandShrimp says:

      The UK owns the BBC. Pushing out their propaganda.

      There is no fair and free democracy in the world where that would happen.

    64. Ian Brotherhood says:

      ‘EU leaders dine with British separatists.’

      Same difference, innit?

    65. heedtracker says:

      This dude’s shaping up to be a beeb gimp level propagandist,

      “The UK Government has pledged to respect Holyrood’s pre-existing powers.”

      https://stv.tv/news/politics/1400020-scottish-and-uk-governments-agree-brexit-principles/

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/14797212.Brexit_could_lead_to_more_powers_being_devolved_to_Holyrood__Scottish_Secretary_hints/

      Fluffie’s and his hints, a Fluffie hint has many meanings right enough, in the world of UKOK tory propaganda.

    66. I am hitting back at the the media in my own. Small way I am no longer calling for Scottish independence I am now calling it what it really is Scottish FREEDOM I do it to counter act. Their,separation divorce Etc., what they seem to forget is the union was a shotgun wedding in the first place

    67. Dramfineday says:

      I noticed last night that even the Russia Today internet web site used the S word in their articles.

    68. Capella says:

      Last year I looked up “libration movement” in Wikipedia to get their definition. I was informed that some international body had decided to call this “separation” for some reason. I can’t find this now on Wikipedia.

      But if you search for “Liberation movements” then click on the link “List of national liberation movements recognized by intergovernmental organizations” it takes you to a List of separatist movements:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_recognized_by_intergovernmental_organizations

      Clearly there has been a recent decision to stop referring to national liberation movements and rebrand them separatist.
      Managing perception is clearly a full-time job.

    69. David McDowell says:

      “European Commission says imprisonment of pro-independence leaders is ‘an internal matter of Spain'”

    70. John H. says:

      Don’t forget, there are MOD offices just across the Clyde from the BBC,a short walk and over the Squinty bridge. No need for phones etc.

    71. Obviously the change of wording by the BBC from two Catalan leaders to the use of the pejorative word separatists,is obviously meant to convey the idea to the British public that any nationalism expect British nationalism is bad.

      I am concerned about how bad things could become in Spain,
      imprisoning people who are exercising their right to self determination is an appalling state of affairs in a supposed democracy..

      And if the EU aren’t careful and don’t do something to protect the rights of Catalan and EU citizens in Spain it could find itself going the same way as the former Soviet Union.

    72. frogesque says:

      O/t

      Bit early in thread but here goes.

      Shortbread (Brewer stand in) announces Ruth Davidson, leader of the Scottish Conservatives ( and Unionists but they forgot that) is to appear on a celebrity ( no laughing at the back please) version of The Great British Bake Off

      Just thought you’d would like to know.

    73. Muscleguy says:

      Well done to those alert readers who alerted the Rev. Wings is rapidly becoming a paper of record. The sort of records which would have a D notice on them in the past.

      Wings Over Scotland: shining a light into the Union’s dark places.

      Free the Two Jordis! Viva Catalunya!

    74. Chick McGregor says:

      I have remained pretty silent on Catalonia.

      The reason is that in Independence First, one of the main contentions those of us in the middle had with the Left-left faction was the associating of the cause for Scottish independence with that of the Catalans and other indy movements around the world in a spirit of solidarity.

      We resisted demands to make support by IF for such movements manifest in our published material.

      The reason was most certainly NOT because we did not wish them well, quite the contrary.

      The reasons were:

      1. Scotland, as a long established nation state in a now voluntary union with others and where there was no constitutional bar to it leaving that union was in a completely different constitutional and legal category from the others.

      2. The best chance those others would have to make their own case would be after Scotland’s far easier transition to independence. A circumstance which, while not a guarantee of success, would de facto have added some weight to their claims. i.e. It was in their own interest to bide their time and await that event.

      3. Associating Scotland’s claim with those others presents the opportunity to London to maintain Scotland is in the same category and gives them the excuse to respond to that claim in the way Madrid would (and now has) to Catalan independence. Thus reducing Scotland’s chance of success in attaining independence.

      In short, it was just plain stupid.

      I have little doubt now that the Westminster contingent of the new neo-fascist axis (UK, Spain, Turkey) will attempt the same. Despite the legal differences. Whether the get away with it in terms of international condemnation, is another thing. That would not be the best start for a Brexit Britain looking for friends.

    75. The Rt Hon Sir Alan Duncan KCMG TORY STAIN MP just accused the SNP of breaking the law by sending `official` observers to an `illegal` referendum in Catalonia,

      Joanna Cherry asked for an apology because they were invited and not in anyway official,

      but the Tory gimp had scarpered by then,

      much to the humour of Tory gimp speaker.

    76. Dr Jim says:

      In the Scottish referendum we were told the OECDs pronouncements on the economy were sacrosanct and their accuracy not to be questioned, the same people who told us that now say the OECD are talking complete rubbish and none of their figures are a reflection of anything

      The British Nationalist is a different breed to Scottish people or Catalonian people seeking democracy, the British Nationalist is in the business of subverting democracy and will lie cheat steal and even murder for it’s cause, and that cause is the Englification of everything they touch with no regard to the identity or will of other peoples or Nations

      If they can’t break you from the outside they’ll infiltrate and destroy you from the inside and all the while claim the position of right and the injured party for themselves

      They always have done and always will

      The British Nationalist Empire is over as every country who was a part of it found them out and threw them out

      It’s Scotlands turn to do the same as every other country has done
      get rid of the British Nationalist parasite nation

    77. Welsh Sion says:

      Patrick Roden @ 12.29

      Try the Criminal Law Act 1967, Section 4:

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1967/58/section/4

    78. @Chick McGregor

      sort of agree with you in a way sort of,

      but,

      being Scottish means you canny stand back while some big f#ck bullies a smaller f@ck,

      even if if means you end up with the bust nose while the smaller f@ck f@cks off.

    79. Capella says:

      What the Catalan leaders are engaged in would be better described as “civil disobedience” since the Spanish state itself called them “disobedient”.

      Interesting discussion in Wikipedia on this form of political activism:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

      The recent film “Suffragette” is an excellent portrayal of civil disobedience which challenged immoral laws. It is a very gritty account, including training in self-defence which the Suffragists found necessary to protect themselves against police attacks.
      Well worth watching. Official trailer here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=056FI2Pq9RY

    80. Welsh Sion says:

      Capella @ 1.23 pm

      If you want a link to successful Civil Disobedience from your Welsh cousins go here.

      http://cymdeithas.cymru/what-is-cymdeithas-yr-iaith

      Based on Gandhian principles, of course.

      (WS is a Member of CyrI …)

    81. Dan Huil says:

      @Scot Finlayson 1:07pm

      Very interesting. We will see and hear more of this, I’m sure. Next we will have British nationalists and the British nationalist media accusing pro-indy people in Scotland of being ("Tractor" - Ed)s; ("Tractor" - Ed)s to the britnat Butcher’s Apron, that is.

      However if this britnat bullying reaches an even more anti-Scottish level it would justify the SNP withdrawing its MPs from Westminster. Mandates for indyref2 have been passed in Holyrood, not Westminster. Therefore any Westminster non-consent [!] would be even more ineffectual as it is at the moment.

    82. Chick McGregor says:

      @Scot Finlayson

      Now that it is a fait accompli and there is no harm to be done by it, I give my open support to the Catalans bid for independence and condemn Madrid’s behaviour.

      Before, to extend your analogy, it was best to say
      “Try and avoid or ignore yon bully the noo. I’m goin tae hae a wurd wi the heidmester an hopefully that’ll sort yon big bastirt oot.”

    83. David says:

      Im not calling for it, its indefensible now, but in the end independence is only won and maintained through force or the threat of force.

      You can have any law you want, its the people with the most guns who’ll decide when and where it gets used and usually that’s the larger/dominant state.

      Sorry peeps. We might have left the jungle a long time ago, but the jungle is still very much in us and in international affairs.

    84. donnywho says:

      If you are not yet convinced that the BBC is a propaganda channel for the UK government then contemplate this.

      The Telegraph reported new figures and the BBC duly reported them.

      “Britain is £490bn poorer than thought, according to The Daily Telegraph. The paper reports that the UK no longer has a reserve of foreign assets to help protect against the consequences of Brexit.

      Quoting the Office for National Statistics, it says Britain’s international investment position has collapsed from a surplus of £469bn to a net deficit of £22bn.”

      This is a half Trillion Pound Reverse in our fortunes, worthy of a front page you might think!

      Well what i wrote in parentheses is all the coverage I can find in the BEEB online… and that was buried under what the papers say.

      That is nearly £10,000 pounds for every man woman and child that the UK government has “vanished”.

      But don’t worry you won’t notice as you will not be informed!

    85. starlaw says:

      With WW11 at its height Britain and America decided to finish Hitler first then come back for Franco, thus clearing all the Fascist’s out of Europe Sadly they did not follow this plan through.

    86. ScottishPsyche says:

      Ruth Davidson’s latest attempt at the trivialisation of Scottish Politics has the Yoons out in force defending her. She has ‘charisma’ and is doing stuff for charity while the FM is ‘swanning around foreign countries’ being the FM on Taxpayer’s money.

      My God do they actually think this stuff helps? Who in their right mind doesn’t cringe every time they see a politician trying to be funny? The normalisation of profoundly abnormal Tory ideology dressed up as cuddly Ruth continues.

      I thought for a while they were beginning to see through her but this smacks of collusion and manipulation with the media on a scale not seen before. She is allowed to hide away when the going gets tough and is then given a platform to dupe the unwary and foolish that she is the Tory Saviour.

      They are even trying to say she has had an influence on the next budget! Although this was always on the cards that any sweeties given out in the budget to Scotland would be said to be due to Tory Scottish influence to boost their miserable profile.

    87. heedtracker says:

      starlaw says:
      17 October, 2017 at 1:45 pm
      With WW11 at its height Britain and America decided to finish Hitler first then come back for Franco, thus clearing all the Fascist’s out of Europe Sadly they did not follow this plan through.

      No that’s not what happened. This is classic rule Britannia we won the war propaganda, still belching out of beeb led neo fascist news corps today.

      Russia defeated Nazi Germany. At best, the USA helped them. All rule Britannia did was lose, everywhere, bar north Africa. The only reason D-day happened was because the US could see that Stalinist Russia would over run the whole of Europe by mid 1945, with the Iron Curtain running right through Calais.

      Its why Franco was left in peace.

      Facts are cheils etc:D

    88. TheWasp says:

      Now we have the bbc double whammy. The cuddly, loveable and so funny Ms britnat Calman on the better together dancing, Colonel tRuthless on the baking, what a shock….

    89. CameronB Brodie says:

      British nationalism is very similar to a cult, i.e. an enclosed belief system founded on ideology rather than empirical reality.

      The effect of culture on perception and cognition: a conceptual framework

      ABSTRACT
      Researchers are increasingly recognizing the role of culture as a source of variation in many phenomena of central importance to consumer research. This review addresses a gap in cross-cultural consumer behavior literature by providing a review and conceptual analysis of the effects of culture on pre-behavioral processes (perception and cognition). The article highlights a series of important perceptual and cognitive differences across cultures and offers a new perspective of framing these differences among cultures—that of “culturally conditioned” perceptual and cognitive orientations. The article addresses several theoretical issues and suggests directions for future research as well as managerial implications.

      http://tinyurl.com/yb7tug6c

      UNDERSTANDING PRIMING EFFECTS IN SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGY: WHAT IS “SOCIAL PRIMING” AND HOW DOES IT OCCUR?
      https://www.psychology.northwestern.edu/documents/faculty-publications/molden-priming_2014a.pdf

      Subliminal Techniques as Propaganda Tools: Review and Critique
      Research on perception without awareness has provoked strong emotional responses from individuals within and outside the scientific community, due in part to the perceived potential for abuse of subliminal techniques. In this paper, four basic issues regarding the use of subliminal techniques for propaganda purposes are discussed: whether exposure to subliminal stimuli can produce significant, predictable changes in affect, cognition and behavior; whether these effects are robust and powerful enough to make the use of subliminal techniques for propaganda purposes feasible; whether the effects of subliminal stimulation are stable over time; and whether subliminal influences can be resisted by unwilling subjects. Research suggests that exposure to simple drive-or affect-related subliminal stimuli can produce ecologically significant, temporally stable changes in attitudes and behavior, and therefore may have potential for use as propaganda tools. Implications of these findings for our understanding of the mechanisms underlying subliminal perception are discussed. Technical problems which would need to be addressed before subliminal propaganda techniques could be employed are also discussed. Ethical issues raised by the use of covert attitude and behavior manipulation techniques are addressed

      https://philpapers.org/rec/BORSTA

    90. Fred says:

      Kezia used to work for the Lord Ffoulkes!

    91. heedtracker says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      17 October, 2017 at 2:07 pm
      British nationalism is very similar to a cult,

      You have no idea:D Even the Battle of Britain was essentially a precision bombing campaign meant only to weaken and destabilise British shipping infrastructure and communications. There is almost evidence at all that the Nazi’s were going to invade the UK. Battle of Britain is entirely a creation of British propaganda, post war too.

    92. Alba Jock says:

      Morals 0 Dignity 0. The jobs yours!!

    93. Alba Jock says:

      Are we surprised? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    94. Capella says:

      @ Welsh Sion – thx for the link – interesting site. Makes mild mannered disobedience almost compulsory!

    95. smac1313 says:

      Will Ruth be baking a Jaffa cake? Like her, it’s orange in the middle.

    96. geeo says:

      Economy sinks deeper….inflation up to 3% (BofE target 2%) and interest rate hikes coming soon as next month possibly.

      http://archive.is/gQffw

    97. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, the BBC isn’t some two-bit player. They have enormous resources and employ lots of very clever people with ologies. This, however, is rather crude propaganda, IMHO.

      Communications and behaviour change
      EMBEDDING BEHAVIOURAL THEORY

      ‘We need an even better understanding of human behaviour, not just to arrive at the optimum solution in terms of motivation but also to understand how to get as close as possible to the behaviour under investigation to stand the greatest chance of influencing it.’ Judie Lannon45

      http://www.changewildlifeconsumers.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/COI-commongood-behaviourchange.pdf

      Implicit Social Cognition: Attitudes, Self-Esteem, and Stereotypes
      Social behavior is ordinarily treated as being under conscious (if not always thoughtful) control. However, considerable evidence now supports the view that social behavior often operates in an implicit or unconscious fashion. The identifying feature of implicit cognition is that past experience influences judgment in a fashion not introspectively known by the actor. The present conclusion—that attitudes, self-esteem, and stereotypes have important implicit modes of operation—extends both the construct validity and predictive usefulness of these major theoretical constructs of social psychology. Methodologically, this review calls for increased use of indirect measures—which are imperative in studies of implicit cognition. The theorized ordinariness of implicit stereotyping is consistent with recent findings of discrimination by people who explicitly disavow prejudice. The finding that implicit cognitive effects are often reduced by focusing judges’ attention on their judgment task provides a basis for evaluating applications (such as affirmative action) aimed at reducing such unintended discrimination.

      https://faculty.washington.edu/agg/pdf/Greenwald_Banaji_PsychRev_1995.OCR.pdf

      The Mere Exposure Effect: An Uncertainty Reduction Explanation Revisited
      A misattribution explanation for the mere exposure effect posits that individuals misattribute perceptual fluency to liking when they are not aware that the fluency comes from prior exposure. The uncertainty reduction explanation posits that individuals prefer stimuli that are familiar and is consistent with findings that stimuli judged old were preferred to those judged new. The present research provides evidence to support an uncertainty reduction account of the mere exposure effect. The results of Experiment 1 show that three different operationalizations of uncertainty reduction—prior exposure, subjective familiarity, and confidence—all led to enhanced affect. The results in Experiment 2 show that participants corrected their cognitive responses but not their affective responses at higher levels of exposure frequency, suggesting that misattribution may be accountable for exposure effects in cognitive judgments but not in affective judgments.

      http://www.communicationcache.com/uploads/1/0/8/8/10887248/the_mere_exposure_effect-_an_uncertainty.pdf

    98. heedtracker says:

      We live in a world of relentless tory britnat BBC led lies and propaganda, so its almost to really know accurately whats going on, here or abroad.

      Before you look at this poll result, ask how would you vote first?

      Sat 9:52 AM 2,162,179 Views 597 Comments

      http://www.thejournal.ie/catalan-independence-poll-3646405-Oct2017/

    99. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Operation Barbarossa was in English interests, too. Had to jolly well distract the Soviets by putting on a spiffing airshow.

    100. schrodingers cat says:

      franky boyle on fire in guardian article
      soz, forgotten how to archive

      class
      “A good outside bet is Ruth Davidson, Boris Johnson in negative. Davidson seems quite cheerful for a British person, but by Scottish standards she’s pretty much Santa Claus. I can’t believe so many people are fooled by her. Don’t you remember Boris was a laughing panel-show goon too? The British public have the memory span of an abused dog who has been offered steak. She has the jovial, apologetic bonhomie that most politicians don’t master until 10 years after a disgraced exit from the Commons. Her success should at least be contextualised by the fact that there are plenty of places in Scotland that should be natural Tory strongholds, if only because of the sheer unpleasantness of their populations.”

      I still think he would be a great leader of yes2

    101. heedtracker says:

      Stinky old Graun rule britnat tories have a very big h_rd on for Colonel Ruth too. Shock.

      Scottish politics
      Rising star: Ruth Davidson to appear on Great British Bake Off
      Scottish Conservative leader will take part in charity special of Channel 4 programme to raise money for Stand Up to Cancer
      Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson throws flour while campaigning for the elections last May.

      Caroline Davies
      Tuesday 17 October 2017 12.32 BST

    102. heedtracker says:

      “Davidson’s popularity is growing . She was second only to the foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, when a recent YouGov poll asked Conservative members who should to step up as leader if Theresa May called time on her premiership, though as an MSP Davidson would currently be ineligible to stand.”

      Say Graun tories. Fact is, the way tory creepout works, its entirely possible that a sock puppet like Colonel Ruth is heading for PM of teamGB.

    103. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Support:

      https://www.gofundme.com/battleBBCbias

      Don’t pay the BritNat Propaganda Tax (aka TV Licence).

      Call out the lies to anyone who will listen and provide examples of their bias (Wings, Wee Ginger Dug, Prof Robertson as well as this site have the ammunition you need).

      Don’t rely on Scots Gov or SNP tackling the Media head on as this will provide the BritNats with an “SNP undermining the freedom of the press” angle.

      We continue to do it ourselves one voter at a time.

      Once the scales have fallen from their eyes they can never go back on.

    104. heedtracker says:

      Reluctant Nationalist says:
      17 October, 2017 at 2:54 pm
      Operation Barbarossa was in English interests, too. Had to jolly well distract the Soviets by putting on a spiffing airshow.

      But within say 12 months of WW2 outbreak, English interests became almost irrelevant. Dunkirk was an appalling defeat. Over 100,000 “coward” French soldiers died holding back the German invasion force.

      They lost everything emperial in south east Asia, Australia nearly went too. This whole post war era, has been dictated by a bunch of tories, via their beeb gimp network of propaganda, right up to Blair, Brown, Flipper etc, who just flat out refuse to accept any actually post WW2 geo political reality.

      And its why ofcourse they continue to use their Scotland region as their private nuke missile dump today and why teamGB will be directly involved in Orange Hitler’s war with North Korea.

      And Trident’s much too deadly to be kept anywhere near English towns and cities.

    105. mike cassidy says:

      Frankie Boyle archived.

      http://archive.is/BPgbj

      ” The Conservatives have never been a party burdened by needless sentimentality; some MPs only keep their children’s photos in their wallet to make sure that at the end of term they don’t bring the wrong one home. “

    106. Robert Graham says:

      davidson and its promotion

      only so many times you can polish s—e then it starts to stink ,

      this love in will start to crumble when it’s probed and the hidden unsavoury wee inconvenient truths start appearing .

      No one is bulletproof ruthie it will be a pleasurable sight to see you fall , and you will .

    107. mogabee says:

      Capella @ 12.53pm

      This seems to be the person/entity which changed the list title you mentioned!

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rigley

    108. Robert Peffers says:

      I believe Scottish Nationalists would be well justified adopting the English Nationalist BBC instigated pejorative term, “EVIL SEPARATISTS”, to describe the cruel Conservative Government of the United Kingdom who are intent upon separating the European Union Citizens of the Kingdom of Scotland from the European Union against their expressed will demonstrated by a democratically decided referendum where Scots voted to remain in Europe.

    109. Les Wilson says:

      Usually I wake early,and frequently put on the bbc radio just to check going on’s.
      What I have noticed that headlines coming up early say one thing or headline things.
      By 8-8.30 many change giving a different slant on the headline.

      The one above that Rev has put on shows the usual bbc alterations to suit the Yoononist agenda.
      so whoever makes the manipulation, gathers the headlines and changes them to the right wing requirements.

      These can only be done by people well versed in such matters which must be a department installed for this function.
      Propagandists of the most insidious entity in the world, the bbc.

      Don’t pay the licence, do not feed the beast..

    110. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, the BBC simply reflects the many historical, Anglophile prejudices and biases embedded in contemporary British nationalism.

      The impact of affective and cognitive focus on attitude formation

      Abstract
      We examined the effects of unobtrusive affective and cognitive focus on attitude formation. To induce focus, participants worked on a word-search puzzle consisting of either affective (e.g., emotion) or cognitive (e.g., reasoning) words. They then read positive and negative affective and cognitive information about a new attitude object. In the affective focus condition, evaluations were more congruent with the valence of the affective information than they were in the cognitive focus condition, where evaluations were more congruent with the valence of the cognitive information than they were in the affective focus condition. Affective focus also resulted in enhanced recall of affective information. The effects on evaluations remained stable over time, whereas effects on memory disappeared. Finally, affective focus was associated with faster response times, suggesting enhanced accessibility of affect-based attitudes. The present research shows that an affective or cognitive focus leads to the formation of different attitudes.

      The Formation of Affective Judgments: The Cognitive-Affective Model Versus the Independence Hypothesis

      Abstract
      Several theories, including disposition-based theories, depend on moral judgments about narrative characters’ actions to describe how audiences understand characters in media narratives. However, more needs to be known about how moral judgments about characters’ actions are made and affective dispositions toward characters are formed and change as a story unfolds. There is evidence that the intentionality underlying a character’s actions is an important judgment that audiences use to understand a character’s actions. We propose two sequences: a rationalist sequence in which perceived intentionality of a character’s actions informs moral judgments and affective dispositions, and an intuitionist sequence in which affective dispositions are determined first and moral and intentionality judgments are made congruent with that judgment. Implications for narrative theories are discussed.

      http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/comt.12031/abstract

      Affect and Cognition in Attitude Formation toward Familiar and Unfamiliar Attitude Objects

      Abstract
      At large attitudes are built on earlier experience with the attitude object. If earlier experiences are not available, as is the case for unfamiliar attitude objects such as new technologies, no stored evaluations exist. Yet, people are still somehow able to construct attitudes on the spot. Depending on the familiarity of the attitude object, attitudes may find their basis more in affect or cognition. The current paper investigates differences in reliance on affect or cognition in attitude formation toward familiar and unfamiliar realistic attitude objects. In addition, individual differences in reliance on affect (high faith in intuition) or cognition (high need for cognition) are taken into account.

      In an experimental survey among Dutch consumers (N = 1870), we show that, for unfamiliar realistic attitude objects, people rely more on affect than cognition. For familiar attitude objects where both affective and cognitive evaluations are available, high need for cognition leads to more reliance on cognition, and high faith in intuition leads to more reliance on affect, reflecting the influence of individually preferred thinking style. For people with high need for cognition, cognition has a higher influence on overall attitude for both familiar and unfamiliar realistic attitude objects. On the other hand, affect is important for people with high faith in intuition for both familiar and unfamiliar attitude objects and for people with low faith in intuition for unfamiliar attitude objects; this shows that preferred thinking style is less influential for unfamiliar objects. By comparing attitude formation for familiar and unfamiliar realistic attitude objects, this research contributes to understanding situations in which affect or cognition is the better predictor of overall attitudes.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4627771/

    111. Les Wilson says:

      Ruth going on the ” Great British whatever!” well let us not be surprised at the possibility that there are instructions given for her to win it.
      We are dealing with the bbc here, we know well what they do to push the yoononist agenda.

      So it is not impossible to imagine how they would be have a propaganda field day promoting Ruthie every day and night until it is exhausted. Across all the tv channels they have and all the radio channels they have. Add to that the papers and other complicit tv channels.

      So be ready to see that folks, even if her winning would be fantasy for most, a close second would still serve their purpose.Personally I think she could not stir porridge and may have a leaning to take away’s.

    112. louis.b.argyll says:

      CBB, good stuff.

      The BBC’s corporate identity is entwined with the children of those end-of-empire Conservative establishment figures who cracked the House of Lords and various ‘trusts’ and ‘conventions’ they ‘own’.

      They are above UK law,
      but beneath Scotland.

    113. louis.b.argyll says:

      Les, last one was to you too.

      They scheme and plot
      An awful lot.
      The rich elite
      The poor to keep.

    114. DRAC says:

      Welsh Lion, without the Catalan transcript it is impossibke to know what Jordi Cuixart said. However , bear in mind separast coukd be the wird since that is what we are, we want to SEPARATE from Spain come what may albeit pacifically!

    115. Petra says:

      Seemingly the Catalan Chief of Police was being held for not preventing the vote, but has been released without passport. Time for someone … the EU / UN … to step in. High time.

      The BBC once reputable (never was in fact) is now notorious for being manipulative and biased, right across the Globe. With the number of complaints that they receive they know it too. Getting rid of the Trust won’t help.

      Someone on the Politics programme this morning basically told Jo Coburn that to her face when covering the dire OECD report. Said that their biased reporting had led to Brexit. An extremely miffed Jo Coburn said “I don’t know what you mean. We reported fairly for both sides.” Aye right!

    116. CameronB Brodie says:

      @Duncan Hothersall
      Formed an opinion yet on the reflexive nature of thought, belief, intention and disposition?

      Affective disposition theory
      Affective disposition theory (ADT), in its simplest form, states that media and entertainment users make moral judgments about characters in a narrative which in turn affects their enjoyment of the narrative. This theory was first posited by Zillmann and Cantor (1972), and many offshoots have followed in various areas of entertainment (Raney, 2006a). Entertainment users make constant judgments of a character’s actions, and these judgments enable the user to determine which character they believe is the “good guy” or the “villain”. However, in an article written in 2004, Raney examined the fundamental ADT assumption that viewers of drama always form their dispositions toward characters through moral judgment of motives and conduct. Raney argued that viewers/consumers of entertainment media could form positive dispositions toward characters before any moral scrutinizing occurs. He proposed that viewers sometimes develop story schemas that provide them “with the cognitive pegs upon which to hang their initial interpretations and expectations of characters” (Raney, 2004a, p. 354). The basic idea of the affective disposition theory is used as a way to explain how emotions become part of the entertainment experience.

      https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Affective%20disposition%20theory&nojs=1

      When Bad Things Happen to Bad People: Using Disposition Theory to Explore the Effects of Cautionary Tales
      http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10810730.2014.921740

      Narrative
      Two Sides of the Same Immersion

      http://mprcenter.org/review/category/s14-theory/narrative/

    117. Robert Peffers says:

      @Alex Clark says: 17 October, 2017 at 10:51 am:

      “I’d like to know who is in charge of changing headlines to suit a certain political agenda. Are there “political officers” working in the BBC who’s job is to scrutinise headlines and modify where required.”

      Wake-up Alex. I’m tired of setting things straight and it flying over Winger’s heads.

      In spite of what seems a general belief among the public, the Licence payers DO NOT fund the BBC.

      This myth is all part of the propaganda that Westminster wants you to believe. The BBC collect the licence fees on behalf of Her Majesty’s Treasury. Much the same as business’ collect VAT, Road Fuel Duty, Alcohol Duty, Tobacco Duty and for any services that company carries out for their customers.

      The Licence money goes directly to HM Treasury. The BBC keeps none of it. You pay Her Majesty’s Government for permission, (Licence), to watch live Broadcast TV from any source – including on-line. In return Her Majesty’s Government makes an annual grant to the BBC. In truth the BBC are paid by the Government for services rendered.

      Not only that but Her Majesty’s Government appoints the Director General and so on. Don’t take my word for it here’s a cite to a link of how the BBC is set-up. It has always been by Royal Charter but the Charter was reviewed and was changed this yearL-

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/corporate2/insidethebbc/managementstructure/bbcstructure

      The Government chooses The Governor General, (Tony Hall), and I’m not sure now, (due to the recent changes), of who else the Government appoints but it is all in that above link.

      The Government used to also appoint the BBC Trust but changed that for this year by making Ofcom the body that is, (supposedly), to look after the interests of the Viewers and Listeners:-

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Trust.

      There is the stone cold truth, Alex. The BBC is factually the propaganda wing of Her Majesty’s Government and they always have been.

      Note that I usually do not make claims without offering proofs – go read the links I post above.

    118. CameronB Brodie says:

      louis.b.argyll
      Cheers, I just trying to provide some theoretical substance to suspicions of BBC bias.

    119. shiregirl says:

      …why would they change it?

      Because we know what their agenda is – and it ‘aint about telling the truth.

      Shameful, but expected behaviour by the BBC.

    120. Robert Peffers says:

      @Calum McKay says: 17 October, 2017 at 11:19 am:

      “That these arrests have been made without disgust being voiced by European leaders is hugely disappointing!

      Oh! Get a bloody grip, Calum. We have been over this before. There is no way that the EU Parliament, The EC or the Council of Europe is going to publically criticise any member state. In the first place it is not the way diplomacy works. In the second place the EU is not only democratic it is also run by consensus.

      That is any single member state can stop and EU business dead in its tracks as every member state has a veto. If they so choose they can bring the EU to a screeching halt overnight.

      That doesn’t mean that moves will be going on as we speak behind the scenes. For just as a member state can cause the EU to grind to a halt then so can the EU make things very, very difficult for ant state that fails to toe the line.

      The states must all contribute to the EU and then look for grants coming back to them from the EU. If a state doesn’t keep up its payments then the EU holds back their payments to the member state. The EU will show its displeasure where it hurts – in the member state’s grants from the EU.

      That’s how consensus works – by agreement but also by give & take. If you pay close attention you can see the EU’s displeasure with the Westminster Establishment in action right here and now.

      Go look at todays news: Here’s a few headlines:-

      “Unthinkable to have no Brexit Deal”, by Home Secretary Amber Rudd.

      “UK Inflation at highest since April 2012”.

      “Rise in Hate Crime in England & Wales”.

      “Latest Commons Boundary plans published”, (Likely NOT to get passed).

      “Brexit reversal would boost UK, says OECD”.

      “PM & EU: Let’s speed up Brexit Talks”.

      It is all beginning to build up and may well soon blow up.

    121. geeo says:

      Never mind Catalonian “separatists”, if the fragile land mass of Cumbrae Veija’s west side were to ‘separate’ and slide into the ocean, it could trigger a 1000ft tsunami.

      There has been worrying signs over the last few days with hundreds of small earthquakes, indicators of an impending eruption.

      https://albertonrecord.co.za/157178/enviro-monday-volcanic-eruption-canary-islands-cause-mega-tsunami/

    122. Jim Rae says:

      Here the media isn’t even at war over Catalunya. There is an absolute consensus over the perceived dangers of the Catalan Independence movement. Nor, can it be said that the Catalan media is seperate from this lack of objectivity generally, it is subsidised by the Generalitat or the Govern. Only 1 (national)broadcaster is trying to give BOTH sides of the argument. The international media is giving some good insights into the debate – the Spanish (Madrid) media is shameful in their total lack of coverage of both sides. Alarming is the keyword at the moment…

    123. Lenny Hartley says:

      Heedtracker, funny enough I was thinking about Barbarossa the other day,
      I came to the conclusion that Hitler did not invade Engerland as basically he thought he could come to some arrangement with the Germanic rulers of England so he would get Europe and they could keep their empire elsewhere outwith Europe.
      This is what I think the Rudolph Hess mission was about. The Russians were Hitler’s main concern. He launched Barbarossa thinking that he had nothing to worry about with Engerland Military wise excluding the Royal Navy they were a spent force. Russia’s sacrifice won the war in Europe, total combined UK and US losses of just below 5000k including civillians were less than Romania or the Dutch East Indies. russia’s were thought to be 20 Million. I am not suggesting that the British and US losses were not considerable but in the great scheme of things they were well down the league table.

    124. Ruby says:

      Nigel says:
      17 October, 2017 at 10:35 am
      To be blunt, they are in prison. Nothing less. No bail.

      Liz Castro among others is keeping tabs on things.

      https://twitter.com/lizcastro/status/920205041440645120

      It makes you think what we might encounter is Indyref2 goes ahead without ‘consent’…

      Ruby replies
      I saw this on the Liz Castro thread

      https://tinyurl.com/yb89mh84

      That certainly made me think!

    125. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Yes the Centre calls the shots BBC is Westminsters broadcasting service advised I am sure by the Intelligence community.

      The problem is everyone now knows about it.

      Shame on Spain for arresting democrats.

    126. Grouse Beater says:

      Shire Girl “Shameful, but expected behaviour by the BBC.”

      My experience of the BBC:

      Senior staff usually right-wing, some English drafted to Scotland bereft of knowledge of Scottish culture, but do have BBC head of department experience from down south; self-employed short contract creative staff usually left-wing. That allows the BBC to claim it represents all points of view in its programmes.

      It does not, and never has.

      In other words: staff are loaded towards unionism.

      Most supporters of the SNP were purged some years back.

      Staffer, especially trainees, keep their politics close to their chest for fear of getting ignored for promotion, or appearing to be politically biased. They face regular personnel meetings and written reports on their progress or lack of it, and enter the meeting in trepidation, if not paranoid. (My personnel officer did her best to seduce me, and old MI6 trick.)

      It’s okay for the higher echelons of the BBC to be openly British state biased – see history of placeman John Birt now a Lord – not for the rest of us.

      This is still highly relevant: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-HE

      And now the National Anthem will play us out for tonight…

    127. Alex Clark says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Wake-up Alex. I’m tired of setting things straight and it flying over Winger’s heads.

      In spite of what seems a general belief among the public, the Licence payers DO NOT fund the BBC.

      LOL Robert, what are the f@ck are you talking about? I never mentioned the licence fee, so what gives? Here’s my full post as a reminder as you surely need one:

      I’d like to know who is in charge of changing headlines to suit a certain political agenda. Are there “political officers” working in the BBC who’s job is to scrutinise headlines and modify where required.

      It wouldn’t surprise me to find out that there are such positions. Pravda Officers.

      Plug for the fundraiser which is almost there, help fight BBC bias.

      https://www.gofundme.com/battlebbcbias

    128. Rock says:

      In the 1% chance that Nicola defies Saint Theresa and holds a referendum without Westminster’s permission, expect much much worse in Scotland.

      And I don’t mean the “separatist” labelling.

    129. Rock says:

      Petra,

      “Time for someone … the EU / UN … to step in. High time.”

      Anyone thinking that the EU or the UN would step in to defend an “illegal” referendum, whether in Catalonia or Scotland, is extremely naive, in my humble opinion.

    130. Marga says:

      “Anyone thinking that the EU or the UN would step in to defend an “illegal” referendum, whether in Catalonia or Scotland, is extremely naive,”

      You can call it an “illegal refedrendum” and the figures look mediocre but as an act of mass civil disobedience in the face of violent repression, it becomes heroic.

      See the power of words, like “separatist” for example?

    131. Street Andrew says:

      SEPARATISTS OF THE WORLD UNTIE !!

    132. Cactus says:

      Originally said…

      “Two Catalan leaders in Spanish Custody”

      Ahm sure I saw an interim headline too:

      “Two Catalan separatists in Spanish Custody”

      Did that transitional quote become a bit too personal BBC?

      Headlines change fast in the world of the BBC.

      That’s them going all out now.

      Next stop, scotref.

    133. One_Scot says:

      If anyone need just one reason to not pay their politically corrupt extortion tax. This would do just fine.

    134. Jack Murphy says:

      Grouse Beater said at 7:50pm last night:
      “”……It’s okay for the higher echelons of the BBC to be openly British state biased – see history of placeman John Birt now a Lord – not for the rest of us.

      This is still highly relevant: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-HE …..” ”

      HERE IT IS FOR DEMOCRATS IN SCOTLAND.WORTH A FULL READ:

      “……The BBC’s own respected Newsnight journalist, Paul Mason, felt so moved he went public on the reason for his resignation, his disgust at the way the BBC has turned itself into a purveyor of half-truths and deceptions. It deserves a paragraph all to itself. He tweeted:

      “Not since Iraq have I seen the BBC working at propaganda strength like this. So glad to be out of there.”……”

      What an indictment from a highly respected former insider at the BBC.

    135. Rock says:

      Marga,

      ““Anyone thinking that the EU or the UN would step in to defend an “illegal” referendum, whether in Catalonia or Scotland, is extremely naive,”

      You can call it an “illegal refedrendum” and the figures look mediocre but as an act of mass civil disobedience in the face of violent repression, it becomes heroic.”

      Heroic or not, as I had predicted in advance, the EU and UN didn’t consider it their duty to intervene.

      The EU’s and UN’s position will be 100% the same in the highly unlikely event that Nicola will defy Saint Theresa and hold an “illegal” referendum in Scotland.

    136. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Rock.

      You opined,
      “The EU’s and UN’s position will be 100% the same in the highly unlikely event that Nicola will defy Saint Theresa and hold an “illegal” referendum in Scotland.”

      It would be helpful if you could provide one or three links to support your opinion.

      Or, could it be that you’re just bumpin’ your cybergums again?

    137. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,

      “Hi Rock.

      You opined,
      “The EU’s and UN’s position will be 100% the same in the highly unlikely event that Nicola will defy Saint Theresa and hold an “illegal” referendum in Scotland.”

      It would be helpful if you could provide one or three links to support your opinion.”

      What is your opinion, and what “links” have you used to form your opinion?

      Rock (19th September – “The warning notice”):

      “The difference is spineless “sovereign” Scots bottled it despite getting a free vote whereas the Catalonians are showing real spine, although they will be crushed by the Spanish state while the EU does little more than make a few noises.”

      Did you have the foresight to predict what would happen in Catalonia?

    138. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Rock.

      You seem to have misunderstood my comment. I offered NO opinion so have no need to offer any links.

      However, you opined (I repeat),
      ““The EU’s and UN’s position will be 100% the same in the highly unlikely event that Nicola will defy Saint Theresa and hold an “illegal” referendum in Scotland.””

      Now, I ask for the last time – can you provide us with the evidence that led you to that opinion? If not, can you just shut your online puhss?

    139. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,

      “I offered NO opinion so have no need to offer any links.”

      I have no need to offer links to the likes of you.

      “If not, can you just shut your online puhss?”

      This website does not belong to you.

    140. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Nor to you…



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