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Wings Over Scotland

The day job

Posted on November 25, 2020 by

We’ve just been alerted to a new FOI response. It pretty much speaks for itself.

But it’s worth pondering the numbers.

For what we keep being told is still the SNP’s entire reason for existence, the party had delegated just seven members of Scottish Government staff to work, part-time, on the update of the case for independence that it promised in 2019 to produce. By its own admission it had done no work on the subject for the four previous years.

There are 18,200 people working in Scotland’s devolved civil service. But apparently it’s not possible to spare just seven of them to devote SOME of their time to working towards the SNP’s ostensible primary goal, because there’s a bug going around that 1.7% of the population has caught, over 96% of whom have survived it.

(The real survival rate will be far higher than 96%, because many people get the virus without even knowing it. The 96% only includes those who’ve had a positive test.)

We’re not entirely sure how much civil service manpower is taken up on a day-to-day basis by COVID-19. It doesn’t seem to us like there’s all that much to be done about it administratively – things like furlough payments are handled by the UK civil service, and the actual work of upholding legislative restrictions and dealing with sick people are the domains of the police and NHS Scotland.

Yet apparently it’s occupying every last minute of every single day for every minister, MSP and government employee in the land.

This site produced a 72-page book on the case for independence from scratch in a week, in our spare time from running the site. But apparently the entire might of the Scottish Government and the Scottish civil service can’t revise the White Paper a little bit in five years, and it isn’t even trying to.

Yet still we’re expected to believe that the SNP is preparing to hold an independence referendum next year. They really do think your heads button up the back, folks.

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  1. 25 11 20 15:56

    The day job | speymouth

163 to “The day job”

  1. Denise says:

    Funny I’ve just asked the electoral commission if they are currently testing the independence referendum question. I’ll let you know when they get back to me.

  2. Martha Chisholm says:

    If we accept this from them then they’re right…our heads do button up the back….and it will serve us right.!

  3. Sharny Dubs says:

    Shysters the lot of them

  4. Bob Mack says:

    They are clearly going all out to get Independence then.

    Ha ha he ha ha. If you didnae laugh ye wid greet!!!

  5. Mist001 says:

    They seriously need a good kick up the arse. As is apparent, the SNP/Scottish government have no intentions of holding an independence referendum, let alone winning one so if anybody around here has any kind of rational thought process, you have to ask yourself why you are voting for the SNP in the first place?

    I said last night that I’m thinking about voting Tory because at least then I definitely know how bad they are unlike the sleekit SNP but I’m certainly not advocating that everyone votes Tory.

    The only thing that will stop the SNP or change their mindset and get it back on track is for it to have its power taken away from it. I know the choice is limited but Scotland isn’t getting independence anyway, so why not vote for another party that’s not going to deliver independence either?

    Labour or Tory, it doesn’t matter because they’re not going to deliver independence either but it’s time to send the SNP homewards, tae think again.

    That’s the ONLTY language they understand. Nothing else is working.

  6. Astonished says:

    If I was a SNP msp, mp agreeing to this. I would be ashamed to take my wages.

    If you didn’t agree to this then why are you so silent ?

  7. aulbea1 says:

    Sold out – Stitched up – Parasites on the backs of Independence supporters – Absolute charlatans. I could go on, but I’ll just go have a sundowner (or two) with my wife.

  8. Freshmint says:

    “They really do think your heads button up the back, folks.”

    The only thing that concerns me more than this is that they may well be right.

  9. Doug says:

    Britnat civil servants. Why is Permanent Secretary Leslie Evans still in place in Holyrood?

  10. Heaver says:

    Tch! There you go Voldemorting again.

    Better to compare you with Strider: foul on the outside (not really), fair on the inside. The exact opposite of all those parasitic politicians we’re paying for.

  11. ,,newburghgowfer says:

    When I had a go at my MSP for the Party being useless with the media in 2014 the smug wee twat tried to fob me off. I knew then that the Party didn’t have a clue and wouldn’t get us Indy.
    In my eyes anyone who thinks that the SNP will get us Indy are as moronic as the people who voted Labour.
    We need a cohesive New Independence Party with only 1 policy or the only way Scotland becomes a nation is when England has used up all our resources and the Country is a wasteland

  12. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    It’s actually very sad, we need independence urgently and the only folk in a position to deliver seem to have gone off the idea.

  13. Al Ba says:

    Mind-blowing. More digging, kicking an shouting about it needed, ASAP.

    As 2021 progresses with vaccination programmes then you’d think it would not be necessary to have daily misery calls – sorry, necessary health updates – and an increase in focus on May 2021 elections, plus actual independence positivity.

  14. cynicalHighlander says:

    People at the top of the SNP are vastly overpaid.

  15. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Mist001 @ 3.36pm

    Vote Tory.Piss off ya dafty. Think we’re falling for that one.

    When we allude to voting SNP out it means spoiling or abstaining in constituency vote or vote for any other indy party on ballot. Not voting fecking Tories into power ya rocket.

    Just stay in France

  16. Doug says:

    AYRSHIRE ROB 3:36pm

    I think you mean doing that in the regional list vote, Bob.

  17. Skip_NC says:

    Here in NC, I telephoned the Department of Revenue on behalf of a client the other day. Normal hold time and a swift response. Then I went to the Division of Motor Vehicles to renew my car registration (the online app feels like it was designed by 9 year old). There were the usual five ladies behind the counter who dispatched business in their usual efficient manner. In a state with twice the population of Scotland, life continues with more normality and we have better COVID-19 stats than you do.

    Meanwhile, the world knows that Scotland has become the first country to make tampons free for those who need them. Imagine how much more you could do without the yolk of Westminster. Beware, Scotland. You are being Trumpified. It’s just that Nicola Sturgeon is smarter about it than our soon to be ex president

    I’d say “Happy Thanksgiving” but I don’t suppose many visitors to this site celebrate it.

  18. Doug says:

    Skip_NC 4:27pm

    Thanks for your Thanksgiving sentiments. Personally I’ll be having tomorrow instead of turkey. I will, however, be gorging on the NFL games on telly. You think Cam Newton will be enjoying his tear-stained turkey leg?

  19. Doug says:

    Meant to say, haggis tomorrow.

  20. Flower of Scotland says:

    Denise @3.10

    Gordon Ross was saying today that the Electoral Commission and the Scottish Government have agreed on the wording of a new Referendum question. Wonder where he got that information?

  21. Republicofscotland says:

    For Sturgeon/Murrell and the clique, Covid-19 has allowed the SNP hierarchy to kick independence into the long grass. Of course, in reality Sturgeon hasn’t moved us one step closer to independence since she became FM, sadly she never will.

    We all know in our own hearts, albeit the totally deluded faithful aside that is, that constant talk of Scottish independence only occurs from the SNP hierarchy when an election is close or Westminster takes something away from Scotland such as our EU membership.

    The deluded faithful will say Sturgeon has a plan and she’s keeping it close to her chest, and just you wait and see next year, she’ll announce a date for an independence referendum and we’ll vote yes and we’ll be rid of Westminster, and Johnson forever, poor sods if it wasn’t so sad it would be funny.

    Occams Razor says in this instance if there’s hardly anybody working on Scottish independence for the Scottish government then there’s virtually no chance at all that an independence referendum will be held next year. Cue the deluded oh yes it will she’s just doing it all in secret.

    In reality we’re totally f*cked on the indyfront unless we can topple Sturgeon and Murrell. One thing I know for sure they wont be getting my List vote next year.

  22. shug says:

    Interesting reading this site and reflecting on comments from some orange unionist associates I have come across:

    1) The Murrels have been compromised (blackmailed) to kick indyref2 into the long grass

    2) The Murrels are on another payroll!!

    3) 1 and 2 above are incorrect and indyref 2 will be the Scottish election

    4) 1 and 2 are incorrect and indyref 2 will be next year

    The lack of any work towards indyref2 next year, or even the delegation of preparatory work, is a damming indictment.
    They can’t be so daft as to think they have a job after next year if they don’t get on with it, and Westminster will not think twice about dumping them in the brown stuff.

    Are they corrupt or daft??

  23. Mac says:

    The SNP have no interest in a referendum. It is just a carrot to get another majority for them. Just ask yourself what they have done in the last 6 years to sell or promote the benefits of independence.

    Nothing, complete radio silence almost. Like independence is an embarrassing relative they now wish they did not have and try to mention as little as possible without being seen to publicly disown them.

    I am of the firm belief that the current (slightly increased) support for independence is essentially a protest vote against BREXIT and the slimy tory government epitomized none better by the repulsive chinless Michael Gove amongst others.

    Increased support for YES can’t be the result of anything the SNP have been saying about Independence, because they have been saying nothing about it. It is all a result of dissatisfaction with Westminster. To rely on that ‘support’ to hold up should indyref2 come around would be very foolhardy. It will evaporate as nothing has changed since 2014, in fact we have gone backward.

    Over that time the SNP have not invested in building any kind of increased perception that independence is desirable for any reason other than we are marginally less shit than Westminster, and that is even debatable (being marginally less shit). They left all the work done to rot in the fields this last 6 years.

    It is an accident of fate that YES support increased and nothing to do with the SNP. If anything they have set it back. All of this will come to the fore if an indyref is granted. You reap what you sow and the SNP have sown fuck all for 6 years.

    Team Nicola don’t make the case for it because they don’t believe in it.

  24. Graeme Hampton says:

    Now if we were to vote on another government next year but there was still positive polling for Indy how would that play out?

    Can’t say I’m enamoured of any of the others but maybe both votes Green campaign could focus minds.

  25. Republicofscotland says:

    “The only thing that will stop the SNP or change their mindset and get it back on track is for it to have its power taken away from it.”


    The last thing we need is for any of Westminster’s branch office managers to become FM, they have a foreign powers interests at heart over the Scottish peoples interests. No what we need is a change of leadership within the SNP, the whole party isn’t rotten just a small group, cut out the fetid parts and the party will get back on track.

    The difficult bit is removing the rotten sections, it takes time and effort, Sturgeon’s popularity is high not because she’s a good FM, no its high because Johnson is such a piss poor PM. The SNP membership must act, whilst we in the grassroots movements can act from the other end.

    In the end though, I think it will come down to protests to get Sturgeon and Murrell out. Protests outside Holyrood and Bute House, if only the Scots had the famous French protesting spirit Sturgeon and Murrell might be long gone by now, and we might be on the verge of independence.

  26. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Swinney trying to defend withholding of legal evidence right now…

  27. indyfan says:

    Denise says:
    25 November, 2020 at 3:10 pm
    Funny I’ve just asked the electoral commission if they are currently testing the independence referendum question. I’ll let you know when they get back to me.

    I believe this has already been asked – they put it on hold when told by SG so it has not been tested yet.

  28. Denise says:

    Yes that’s why I asked the EC because I see no evidence of it anywhere

  29. robertknight says:


    I wonder if “Lip Service” is a phrase that’s overused in relation to the SNP Government and its priorities?

  30. Stuart MacKay says:


    Thanksgiving is the best holiday ever. When I lived in the states, we’d round up the strays who didn’t have family or couldn’t travel. Everybody would bring food and have a good time.

    No family, no presents, lots of food, lots of booze. It was awesome.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

  31. dakk says:

    Sad news about Diego.

    Best footballer ever.


  32. robertknight says:

    Republicofscotland @ 4:49

    “The last thing we need is for any of Westminster’s branch office managers to become FM, they have a foreign powers interests at heart over the Scottish peoples interests.”

    Best description of Sturgeon I’ve seen.

  33. Ian McCubbin says:

    Final nail in coffin of SNP for me.
    Time to vote a true Independence party in to Holyrood, if there is one left after May 2021.

  34. Mac says:

    I am against the indyref route to achieving independence. Theoretically it is fine but practically I think it is far too risky.

    Firstly it is far too easily nobbled. The stakes are beyond massive, and consequently Scottish independence is viewed as a ‘national security’ threat.

    Under those circumstances they will simply rig the vote. I would not be surprised at all if it happened in 2014.

    Secondly it puts all your eggs into one basket… again. If we ‘lost’ another one it could kill the movement for a generation or worse. And this time there would no BREXIT to throw it a lifeline.

    Putting all our eggs in one basket that has the power to snuff out the Independence movement for 25 years+ is just reckless and stupid.

    Instead make independence the vote in every election. Bring it to the forefront and say if you vote for us you are voting for it. If the support is there then it really does become increasing difficult to resist it.

    Make it so they have to rig every poll, every election at every level and not just one, one-off winner takes all indyref. That is too easy for them. They will just cheat.

    Remember Old Joe, it is not the voters who count but the people who count the votes. Relying on a last chance indyref is crazy. Do you really trust them to play it fair this time… they were taken by surprise last time it was so close. Next time they will be lying in wait.

    By making every election a vote on independence the whole ‘once in a generation shite’ is rightfully discarded. And so it should be. A country like a person can change their minds at anytime.

    The decision to vacate the Union is one we should consider every day like any partnership that becomes dysfunctional.

    If a person decides not divorce their spouse today are they barred from considering it again for a generation. No you go when you want at anytime.

    Finally they will never agree to another one (indyref) unless they know they will ‘win’ it so what is the point in chasing it.

    The SNP have got everyone thinking it has to be an indyref and it has to be agreed. Does it fuck on both counts.

  35. Republicofscotland says:

    “UNRELIABLE, unpredictable, and untrustworthy” – that’s the way Europe now views the UK, according to a new expert report.”

    well it would appear we have friends in the EU who’d welcome us back in, there’s just one problem though, Sturgeon isn’t for turning her back on the union.

  36. robert graham says:

    Well if you don’t prepare , if you don’t even give a outward impression work is being done this leaves people with the impression that you are not actually serious about it , a question the other night on a Livestream clip of Twa auld heeds , it wasn’t a difficult question ” Who will be in charge of the Scottish Civil Service the day after independence ” as far as I know preparations haven’t been made in fact I don’t think any Government department and the makeup is in a similar position

    Observation , this SNP administration has been put in place and supported by the English Government , now their obstruction to Independence has been rumbled and they have served their purpose so are of no further use,

    The media shitstorm that so far has been held back to protect Nicola Sturgeon will be pushed at full speed just before next years election , all the methods used in 2014 will be on steroids next year

  37. crazycat says:

    @ Graeme Hampton at 4.47

    The largest number of constituency candidates the Greens have ever put up is 3 – out of a potential 73. They’ve saved a couple of deposits.

    Unless they get a windfall, I’d be surprised if they could afford many more. They also know they are very unlikely to win first past the post (doesn’t stop them trying in those 2 or 3 places, though), and so have always concentrated on the list.

    So I doubt if you’ll get the requisite co-operation for your idea! (I would never vote for them anyway because of their misogyny and anti-science garbage.)

  38. Gregor says:

    During times of so-called national/global crisis, ROTTEN BANANA SNP reverts to British Unionism (reveals itself ?): GOOD LUCK CLOWNS…

  39. Ross says:

    a wee point. The SNP did actually have to respect the result of the vote in 2014 for at least SOME time after the vote.

    it wouldn’t have been right to still be producing white papers on something that had been settled until at least 2016. Even then the resulting GE put that back again when the SNP were seen to be punished.

    So it’s not fair to be going on about 6 years of doing nothing. Two years maybe!

  40. maxxmacc says:

    The scottish govt are too busy remembering transexuals who died in ww1 (dont laugh) or spending taxpayers cash on free sanitary products (tampon tories) to care about independence!

  41. Ross says:

    PS it’s good to know this information and pressure should be kept on.

    It’s also possibly correct to say, the SNP would be fudding slaughtered if it started making noises right now about calling a defacto independence referendum in a few months time.

    Part of the increase in support is because the people see those running the country as serious politicians, not activists.

  42. Al Hunter says:

    It looks like it is time to start writing to MPs and MSPs again directly and deliver the stark warnings that if they don’t appear to be delivering on Independence – THEY ARE OUT !

  43. The Honourable Yona says:

    I would ask people to consider @IndyScotParty for their 2nd vote.
    They want Indy 1st.
    They also want to protect Women and Children.

  44. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “So it’s not fair to be going on about 6 years of doing nothing. Two years maybe!”

    (1) It’s four and a half. The Brexit vote was a material change in circumstances and should have been treated as such immediately. Especially when they won an election on a manifesto saying exactly that.

    (2) Even if you don’t expect, or even intend, there to be another referendum soon, if you’re the party of independence it’s your absolute duty to be PREPARED for one. When parties lose elections they get back to work the very next day on trying to win the next one.

  45. HYUFD says:

    Forget independence, vote SNP next year to protect Trans rights and spend more taxpayers money on overseas aid despite the deficit!!

  46. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Doug @4.25 pm

    What I mean is if people don’t want to vote SNP on the constituency then don’t vote bloody Tory or any other unionist party for heavens sake that
    “Man in France” is suggesting. How is that going to help us? If you want to send SNP a message then losing some constituency seats but making them up with ISP or other won’t be a bad thing.

    On list, vote ISP or the other one AFS depending on candidates on ballot.Again no voting Tory.

  47. Mist001 says:


    Share with me (and others maybe) what your reasons are for voting SNP? Since independence is and has been off the table for a long time, what point is there voting for SNP?

    Unless you’re fucking stupid of course.

    The SNP taking independence off the table makes it a level playing field now. Labour maybe have better policies than the SNP, so why not vote for them? They won’t get you independence either, so what’s the difference?

    The SNP has NO attraction to anyone now so you vote for what’s in your best interests and if that happens to be Tory or Labour, then so be it.

    Just get these fuckwits out of power at Holyrood and you’ll soon see them change their tune otherwise you’re going to pollute this website with constant whinging about how bad the SNP are.

    DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT IN MAY. You know now that no party is going to deliver independence for Scotland, so you have a wider choice.

    It’s hardly fucking rocket science.

  48. bobajock says:

    “because there’s a bug going around that 1.7% of the population has caught, over 96% of whom have survived it”

    I never thought you’d be this dumb Stu.

    Its a pandemic. Its killing a lot of people – 3 of my family have died of this so far, one was 30 years old. The reason it’s not worse? Lockdowns, distancing and ‘education’ of people on the causes of these diseases and their mitigation.

    Your statement reads like a denier. 1% of Scotland’s population if its even that low … is? ~50000

    Long covid is also evident where the damage is bad even for those with no bad symptoms.

    Get educated.

  49. Republicofscotland says:

    SNP government lose another vote in the Holyrood chamber today to had over evidence to the inquiry, again John Swinney refuses to hand over the required documentation.

    How much longer can Sturgeon and Swinney keep refusing to hand over the documents to the inquiry, its a disgraceful state of affairs that to me brings the Scottish government into disrepute.

    Sturgeon and Swinney must stand down taking Murrell with them.

  50. Confused says:

    Scotland should cut its foreign aid to England.


    In a similar manner, most of SCOTTISH WHISKY IS CREDITED AS AN EXPORT FROM LONDON on the grounds that Diageo and other companies are registered for VAT there.


    There are several other gross inaccuracies in estimating Scottish exports arising from these adjustments. UK stats do not credit Scotland for trade in services (e.g. banking, tourism) and intangibles (e.g. financial investments or transfers)

    But despite all of this Scotland has always had – even according to UK Government ‘adjusted’ statistics a MASSIVE QUARTERLY EXPORT SURPLUS

    UK export statistics FOR ENGLAND SHOW MASSIVE QUARTERLY DEFICIT going back to the 1960’s – despite getting the credit for most of Scotland’s major exports using the adjustments above and others. WERE SCOTLAND’S REAL EXPORTS TO BE REFLECTED IN THE OFFICIAL STATISTICS THEY WOULD BE ‘OFF THE GRAPH’ COMPARED TO RUK

    – see here for the 4 UK Nations latest ‘official’ adjusted statistics

    and a blast from the past –

    “It must be concluded therefore that large revenues and balance of payments gains would indeed accrue to a Scottish Government in the event of independence provided that steps were taken either by carried interest or by taxation to secure the Government ‘take’. Undoubtedly this would banish any anxieties the Government might have had about its budgetary position or its balance of payments. The country would tend to be in chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe, with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian kroner. Just as deposed monarchs and African leaders have in the past used the Swiss franc as a haven of security, so now would the Scottish pound be seen as a good hedge against inflation and devaluation and the Scottish banks could expect to find themselves inundated with a speculative inflow of foreign funds.”

  51. Muscleguy says:

    I truly despair of the SNP at the moment. If the Salmond etc inquiries cannot force Sturgeon to resign taking Murrell with her as that should properly happen then the only other recourse will be a second vote ISP.

    The Greens have done diddly squat to push the SNP on Indy. With the honourable exception of Andy Wightman they’re too focussed on selling out women’s rights to less than 2% of the population. So there is really only the ISP as an alternative. The Alliance isn’t even registered.

  52. Mike d says:

    The honorable yona 5.53pm. Hows about they put indy on their manifesto by a plebiscite election in may. Then people can vote 1 and 2 for them.

  53. Muscleguy says:

    As I’ve said elsewhere Sturgeon is bang to rights. The MSM should be all over this, the scalp of an SNP FM and the SNP’s chief exec on offer. Yet they are doing absolutely nothing about it.

    That is very, very curious and something which requires explanation. The only sensible one I can come up with is that Sturgeon has pledged to manage Devolution and make no credible moves to Indy to No10. The S30 request will be theatre. See the SNP and Scotgov are still opposing Martin Keetings’ S30 case and if he wins they will do nothing and wait for WM to legislate to close the loophole. Just watch.

    Sturgeon is a busted flush, she has been found out to anyone with an ounce of sense. The journalists know it but they are not writing articles about since their editors must have put the word out. Sturgeon is no threat to the Union and the MSM not baying for her head is absolute proof of it.

  54. Republicofscotland says:

    Confused @6.22pm.

    And that’s why Scotland will never ever be allowed to leave this union.

  55. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Aye Mist001

    Nice try son.Think we’re fucking stupid?
    Voting Tory in any shape or form will never get Indy ya rocket!

    Reducing the SNP margins ie (turnout)will send a message the natives are not happy,not voting for your unionist buddies.Then on list we vote we nail 20-30 seats with ISP votes instead of scum getting them.

    People who want to vote SNP on constituency then that is their right in a democracy.

    You can’t vote in a Indy ref anyhow so you mean fuck all to us.

  56. RobertTheTruth says:

    I remember getting pelters here for saying I had sources telling me Sturgeon had no ‘secret plan’ and that most of the Civil Service were up to their eyes in Brexit stuff. That was before the pandemic.

    The seven sods who were designated to shuffle paper and say how difficult it all was were not even full time. The whole exercise was a sham.

    Now we have Sturgeon signing up to a free for all at Christmas with the UK government and guess what, the aftermath will provide opportunity for more hand wringing and martyrdom at the podium.’How can I deal with anything else when the people are dying?’

    There are more extensive plans to delay the Holyrood election than there ever were to find a way to achieve Independence.

    I see plastic toxic Rosa is telling everyone to wheesht and questions the motives of anyone dissenting from the enforced Christmas cheer. The same Rosa who has gone from Unionist Royalist to SNP machine in less than 6 years.

    If she wasn’t so obviously brain dead one could wonder if she was up to no good but I doubt she even knows what the SNP stands for – or used to.

  57. Bob Mack says:

    Vote Tory ? I’d rather take my appendix out with a spoon.

  58. Stoker says:

    Not read through comments so no idea if anyone has mentioned this.

    The highlighted section of that FOI at the top of this thread states that the Scottish Government announced in March 2020 that they had “paused work on a independence referendum” due to Covid blah blah blah.

    Well, i may have missed it and i’m not being pedantic but i don’t recall any such announcement using those words or even sounding *anything* like what is stated in that highlighted section.

    One thing i’ve learned about the snp under Queen Nic’s dictatorship is to focus on the words used, never trust them and always look for the hidden caveats/get out clauses.

  59. Confused says:

    did you know that in gaelic “english” = thief?
    (if this is not exactly true, it should be)

    gotta love those english – their reputation for sportsmanship, magnanimity and letting bygones be bygones …

    (probably, with only one other candidate) the greatest footballer of all time has died, and within milliseconds we get “hand of god”

    Good film about Amundsen the other night, again with the english – the guy got appalling treatment from them because he beat Scott to the south pole; fact is – Scott was arrogant, like most of the english, hadn’t done his homework, was relying on technology and animals unsuited to the climate, and generally made a bit of an arse of it all. Amundsen lived among the Eskimos for a period and learned, from them, how to survive. For the english to “learn” anything from “savages” would be difficult to conceptualise.

    – and another thing – the ball was never over the line, and that russian linesman lost family to the wehrmacht

  60. Bob Costello says:

    “They really do think your heads button up the back, folks.”

    I think they have proven that many times over

  61. Alf Baird says:

    Mac @ 5.21

    Successive British governments used to goad Scottish Nationalists that all they need do to get independence was win a majority of seats in Scotland. This only changed within the past 20 years after it became evident that the SNP could replace Labour in Scotland. Now John Major and others want to change the goalposts again to make it 2 referendums.

    The reality is, as a matter of law, that a referendum is not a requirement for independence. And you are also right in saying that a referendum is an inherently poor method for Scotland to use far less depend on to seek its withdrawal from the UK treaty-based alliance. This is because, among other things, it allows for significant external interference. Rev Stu is right to propose a plebiscitary election next May.

    I’m no longer sure what the SNP nowadays are politically, but what is certain is they are definitely not Nationalists. If they were Nationalists they would never have wasted three successive Scotland majorities and still be sitting in England’s Parliament. Chancers.

  62. Stoker says:

    @ Alf Baird wrote on 25 November, 2020 at 6:44 pm:

    “I’m no longer sure what the SNP nowadays are politically, but what is certain is they are definitely not Nationalists. If they were Nationalists they would never have wasted three successive Scotland majorities and still be sitting in England’s Parliament. Chancers.”

    They are “progressives” and for progressive please see: Make it up as you go along.

  63. Doug says:

    @Muscleguy 6:28pm

    Totally agree. We’re now in the ridiculous position where the only ones playing the Westminster game and obeying the rules, while britnat politicians blatantly bend the rules beyond recognition and break any law they see fit, are SNP MPs.

    Likewise our FM continues to suffocate any breath of life the independence movement takes. Now she and her britnat civil servants are caught in the Salmond-gate vice yet, as you say, the britnat media, so normally keen to attack the SNP, sit on their grubby hands and do nothing.

    Why? Because they know when the FM goes [and I believe it will be soon] she will be replaced by someone who actually wants Scotland to regain its independence and will do everything in their power to achieve that aim.

    Thus we are in another ridiculous position, this time where the britnat media and britnat Westminster are desperate for the FM to stay in place.

    Rabbit holes have nothing on this.

  64. Tannadice Boy says:

    Conservatives are busy compiling their petition for a Judicial Review. They have a 3 month time limit to submit a petition but if they want it heard before the May election it will have to go in this week. The debate today was an exercise in Parliamentary time wasting. A repeat from 3 weeks ago. I got a horrible feeling today that this isn’t about classic SNP political tactics. An effort to delay the fallout from the Inquiry beyond the election for electoral gain. But rather they really are trying to keep people out of prison. Will somebody tell Dornan the Greens were on the side of Independence and not Better Together.

  65. holymacmoses says:

    WhoRattledYourCage says:
    25 November, 2020 at 4:18 pm

    I’ve never read that before – thanks a million – I shall go and investigate.
    You can see where the Woke brigade come from now:-)

  66. Saffron Robe says:

    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

  67. MaggieC says:

    Re Harassment and Complaints Committee ,

    Updates from the written evidence page ,

    Written submission received from the Lord Advocate following the evidence session on 17 November 2020 ,

    Written submission received from the permanent secretary following the evidence session on 17 November 2020 ,

  68. Auntie Flo says:

    Skip_NC at 4.27 pm says:

    “Imagine how much more you could do without the yolk of Westminster.”


    However, I don’t think we should count our chickens before they are hatched.

  69. Johnny Martin says:


    I think the point was that other countries have had elections and referenda and campaigning for things this year. Some of them had high rates of Covid.

    Why is Scotland uniquely “barred” from doing politics and why only indyrefs when tuppeny happens council by-elections are fine? Also, the point is that the civil service workers are at work, they’d not be taking any extra risks in doing research for this and no-one seriously thinks we are having a ref tomorrow. I will say that I share your general concerns about the virus and have been super-careful this year because of responsibilities I owe to others not to take undue risks but at the same time there has to come a point (next year?) when folk have to have their lives back, including the chance to pursue political change. It can’t be postponed forever (life or politics).

  70. MaggieC says:

    Me @ 8.13 pm , I posted this on the previous thread but there’s been so many btl comments today, here it is again in case anyone’s missed it ,

    Re Harassment and Complaints Committee ,

    Update from the Correspondence page ,

    The Deputy First Minister wrote to the Convener on 24 November 2020 regarding the provision of documents to the Committee and witnesses at evidence sessions:

    The Committee received two communications from legal firm Levy & McRae, representing former First minister Alex Salmond, regarding the provision of documents to the Committee:

    Email from Levy & McRae to the clerks 15 November 2020 ,

    Letter from Levy & McRae to the Convener, 20 November 2020 (198KB pdf)

    The Scottish Government are really determined to do everything they can to hold up submitting the evidence that’s required by the committee . So much for Nicola Sturgeon saying that they would be open and transparent with the Committee inquiry .

  71. MaggieC says:

    Again I posted this on the previous thread ,

    This article from the Herald ,

    “ ALEX Samond’s lawyers have accused the SNP of potentially defaming them and their client by twisting the truth ahead of a crunch parliamentary vote. “

    And i see that the National have published this one hour ago ,

    “ THE Scottish Government may face a vote of no-confidence if ministers continue to refuse to hand over legal advice about its unlawful investigation of Alex Salmond, following a second defeat in Parliament “

  72. John says:

    Predictions please, what’s going to happen to SNP? Will they go back to being a minor party?

  73. Helen Yates says:

    Jason Smoothpiece says:
    25 November, 2020 at 3:57 pm
    It’s actually very sad, we need independence urgently and the only folk in a position to deliver seem to have gone off the idea.

    They’re the only folk in that position because we put them there, we can just as easily put another party in the same position, we just need a party to come forward first and stand on a single mandate of independence, even if it only took half the votes from the SNP (I believe it would take more with the right person at the helm) it’s possible they could be the second largest party in Holyrood, that is still a better position than we are in now.

  74. BBC`s Gary Lineker on the sad news about Diego Maradona

    `Hopefully he’ll finally find some comfort in the hands of God’

    what a crass and juvenile thing to say.

  75. Hatuey says:

    I’m sensing some despondency in here tonight so let me cheer you all up.

    If Salmond gives evidence at the Inquiry, there will be a momentous mood swing. He’ll sit there calmly and explain to the world that he was the target of a cack-handed conspiracy. He may well prove it. Nobody knows what he has up his sleeves.

    Everybody underestimates the power of Salmond when it comes to this stuff. He’s a consummate master, Jedi class. They sent all the stormtroopers and drones they could muster to get him and he wiped them out. That “war” they referred to in texts, etc., by the way, it’s ongoing; it isn’t over until one side or the other is completely defeated.

    Sturgeon and Murrell are rank amateurs but they have managed to build something resembling a Death Star out of the SNP. It’s Salmond’s destiny to destroy it and restore order to the galaxy. You can be sure he’s worked out how to do it by now.

    The integrity of the Inquiry itself is going to be tested to its limits when Salmond appears. That’s a subject that I’m surprised nobody has really mentioned as yet. Let’s be adult about it and be on our guard.

    ““It was back in the early 1990s, just after Margaret Thatcher’s term as prime minister, that Linda Fabiani MSP first got to know Ms Sturgeon when they were both in Glasgow. “She was pretty scary,” Ms Fabiani laughed. “She was fierce. She was always very articulate.”

    “The pair first knew each other socially through mutual friends, but Ms Fabiani later saw her in action at SNP conferences, and remembers thinking even then, that this was a woman who was “going places”.”

    Some of you will have noticed my use of the word “if” above. They’re going to do everything they can to prevent him appearing. They know better than any of us do that Salmond is potentially deadly.

    They also know that Salmond is very well connected and well liked by the Scottish establishment. That establishment might not agree with his politics but there’s a lot of mutual respect there.

    If you have popcorn, prepare to eat it now…

  76. Strathy says:


    The links in your 8.13pm above seem to go to the agenda.

  77. Effijy says:


    Sturgeon and Blackford complaining about overseas aid cuts but Yougov today has 57% of Scots backing overseas aid cuts and just 26% opposed. What a gift to the Tories ahead of the Holyrood elections next year!

    Yes that seems about right.
    Just like the referendum it will be the miserable English
    Entrenched up here in their colony that will have put starving
    3rd world kids and letting them die for the want of cheap medicine.
    In the majority.

    Wonder what those people could have done with the £10.5 Billion
    Handed out to Tory pals who couldn’t spell PPE.

  78. Effijy says:

    Sunak smoke and mirrors.
    Many tricks with his wording today.

    It sounded like we have no money but here is a pledge of billions for
    Everything and anything.

    Any one surprised if they lied, miscalculated, or just u turn later?

    I thought about the poor they say they will help?
    Will that include the 3 million newly self employed who have had nothing
    for 8 months and counting?
    Low end civil servants to get £250 per annum.
    Now with taxes, income and Nat Insurance likely to
    be increased soon, that will take around £87.50 away straight off.
    Buy anything and you have 20 % Vat tax taken off
    Maybe -£33?
    Are they left with less than £130 per annum?
    Then there is inflation at 2% plus to contend with
    And undoubtably that goes up with Brexit tariffs.
    Those lucky people won’t have enough for a polo mint each week.

  79. Tannadice Boy says:

    That was a good tribute for the best ever player, Maradona on the Nine. I never saw him play live but I saw his soulmate and playing partner Cannigia. He was a great player as well. I saw Canniga live at Tannadice when Dundee FC were the visitors. Needless to say United got beat.

  80. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Well, it will be interesting to see what the Sturgeon loaylists make of that.

    Not good news for the Unionist media and parties, however. They can hardly claim the SNP is obsessed by Independence, when they are clearly doing nothing at all about bringing it about.

  81. Jer says:

    I can’t get the image out of my head of oor Nic as the pied (bag)piper of Hamelin leading us all out of the village, up the garden path or wherever, and we freedom loving, idealistic and naive Scots folk toddle along after her, never to be seen again.

    Time to wake up and smell the Irn-Bru!

  82. Daisy Walker says:

    OT 2Scott Findlayson, ‘BBC`s Gary Lineker on the sad news about Diego Maradona

    `Hopefully he’ll finally find some comfort in the hands of God’

    what a crass and juvenile thing to say.’

    Well, maybe, but there’s many a footie fan been known to indulge in a bit of crass and juvenile… on the plus side, when its Gary Lineker’s time to meet his maker, we’ll all know he’s had his chips.

  83. Robert Graham says:

    Daisy @ 10.05
    ha ha naughty ha ha but funny

  84. bipod says:

    The reason it’s not worse? Lockdowns

    Total rubbish, provide some evidence that strangling the entire country has saved a single life. In fact there is now studies that suggest that lockdown only prolongs the panicdemic and will even cause more deaths from covid. That is not even considering all of the collateral deaths from lockdown that lockdown fanatics conveniently like to ignore. I won’t even mention the turning of Scotland into a totalitarian state over a virus that is about as lethal as flu.

    Educate yourself.

  85. Robert Graham says:

    Socrates @ : 9.47
    Yeah I wondered that myself must be reading the wrong stuff because I haven’t seen the ” I” word being mentioned apart from Unionists it’s like bloody Kryptonite to the SNP that vile word that cant be used in conversation akin to swearing

  86. Ayeright says:

    How many of you have been smoking crack! 🙂

  87. Cringe says:

    I have been pointing out to SNP apparatchiks and supporters on twitter and elsewhere that the lack of a White Paper proves there was never any intention of holding a referendum this year, even before the Covid excuse. Thank you for providing documentary proof.

  88. Robert Graham says:

    I guess everyone knows whats required and this current SNP leadership wont be figuring in it , maybe everyone will learn from past mistakes (ie) allowing one party to assume the position of being ” The only game in town ” its said every day is a School Day let’s not ever repeat the same mistakes again .

  89. Hatuey says:

    Socrates: “They can hardly claim the SNP is obsessed by Independence, when they are clearly doing nothing at all about bringing it about.”

    They’ve managed to do exactly that for about 6 years, why would they stop now?

  90. Robert Graham says:

    eh you looking to buy some ?
    HA Ha
    just asking like

  91. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “‘Hopefully he’ll finally find some comfort in the hands of God’

    what a crass and juvenile thing to say.’”

    If you’d read the whole tweet that was taken from you’d know it was no such thing.

  92. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Its a pandemic. Its killing a lot of people – 3 of my family have died of this so far, one was 30 years old. The reason it’s not worse? Lockdowns, distancing and ‘education’ of people on the causes of these diseases and their mitigation.”

    Where did I suggest otherwise?

  93. Hatuey says:

    bipod: “provide some evidence that strangling the entire country has saved a single life”

    I’d love to see you explain how a virus can spread between people who are isolated from one another – when you say lockdown doesn’t work, that’s what you’re arguing.

  94. Big Jock says:

    It is possible to run a US election all through Covid.It is possible for Boris to continue with Brexit. It is possible to prepare for an election next year.

    However apparently it’s impossible for Scottish people to have a say on their future, due to Covid!

    I take it everyone sees exactly what is going on.

  95. bipod says:


    Because people are not perfectly isolated from one another, this isn’t a lab or a quarantine ward where you can keep people locked away in a room with no contact for weeks or months on end. Initially this was accepted as it was all about “flattening the curve” because you can’t realistically isolate everyone from everyone else.

    This is why it has continued to spread all over the world, even in countries that have imposed and enforced even more severe lockdowns than the UKs. Argentina and Peru for example.

  96. McDuff says:

    The thing is Sturgeon and co are not being held to account and not being made to respond to their obvious indifference to independence and for the people who voted for them.
    Why is the National asking questions????
    That heavens for this site or we wouldn’t have a clue as to what is really going on.

  97. Bob Mack says:


    Do you do crack and pot together ? As one word I mean.

  98. Big Jock says:

    Bipod. Using your opinion. Has every country in the world got Covid wrong?

    Scotland is not an outlier! In fact we have been quite mild compared to some countries measures.

    Covid is not a giant conspiracy. It is real. It is a killer. It would wipe out our hospitals if left to run rampant.

  99. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    This is how Lineker’s been talking about Maradona all day.

  100. @Stu,

    you canny think the `hands of God` is a religious reference and not a dig at his accidental hand ball against England in 86,

    i`ve read the tweet and it could do without the last bit if genuine condolence.

  101. Contrary says:


    Salmond can’t reveal any of the evidence until the courts release the information – he’d be hobbled when giving evidence (and he said he’d be doing it without legal counsel too), as far as I’m aware. I’m very sure the best strategy for him would be to give evidence after Nicola Sturgeon has done hers. He’s a shrewd operator though, so I have hopes enough can be said.

  102. Hatuey says:

    bipod, you are now saying lockdown doesn’t work because they aren’t doing it properly and seem to be suggesting we need tighter controls on the movements of people.

    But when you started you were arguing the opposite, and said; “I won’t even mention the turning of Scotland into a totalitarian state over a virus that is about as lethal as flu.”

    See how I flipped you there? That’s Jedi stuff. I could probably talk you into becoming a transgender…

  103. James says:

    Mist001: what a Tory Unionist wanker. We see you.

  104. Mist001 says:


    I vote in the Holyrood elections in May though. Now, you still didn’t explain why you’ll be voting SNP even though they have no intention of achieving Scottish independence.

    From that, I can deduce two things. 1, You’re not politically astute and 2, you’re a secret Mrs. Murrell fanboy.

    NO independence supporter has ANY reason to vote SNP because as they’ve proven time and again, they’re untrustworthy with anything, not even former members/colleagues. If you’ve followed this site, there’s about a million reason not to vote SNP.

    So since none of the parties now are going to do anything about Scottish independence, then do something constructive with your vote. You have three parties to choose from instead of just one this time.

    Get the SNP out of power, give them the kick up the arse they deserve and see how quickly they change. Then Scotland might have a chance of independence but I think that boat has sailed a long time ago. Too many open goals have been missed and they’ll never present themselves again.

  105. AYRSHIRE ROB says:


    Has always touted Sweden as a fine example of his bampot theory. Never mentions Sweden only has land borders with Norway and Finland just as sparsely populated for size of country’s them.

    Sweden has one large city over a million and half- Stockholm.The rest of people are scattered widely over a land area 5 times size of Scotland and 2 and half size of UK.Social distancing is easy in comparison to say central belt here or London,or Birmingham,or Liverpool/Manchester etc

    Swedens comparison to Norway and Finland is horrendous.
    There ended the lesson bipod.

  106. bipod says:

    @Big Jock

    I have never said covid is a conspiracy, it clearly exists. But I don’t buy all the hype around it. Covid can be dangerous to people who are 80+ but frankly many things are to that demographic, for people under the age of 50 it is less lethal than the flu and that is a statistical fact.

    And no I don’t believe that it would “wipe out our hospitals”, that has never happened anywhere in the UK despite the constant predictions. English hospitals were supposed to be overflowing in mid november and the nigthingale hospitals were meant to be full right now, but they remain unused and and icu usage is lower than normal for this time of year. You have been propagandized.

  107. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “you canny think the `hands of God` is a religious reference and not a dig at his accidental hand ball against England in 86,”

    Of course it’s a bloody reference to the handball. That’s not the same as a “dig”.

  108. Hatuey says:

    Contrary, Salmond has already submitted a full and detailed summary of his CoS defence case. I’ve read it and would guess you have too but let me know if you want the link and I will try to find it. It’s a lengthy document and basically spells out his whole defence at the CoS.

    He isn’t required to pretend the court cases never happened and I don’t know how he could give testimony under oath at Holyrood without reference to evidence presented at those court cases.

    As I understand it, there’s basically nothing to stop him saying whatever he likes at the Inquiry, except in terms of being careful not to identify or help identify anyone.

  109. AYRSHIRE ROB says:


    Listen numnuts.I’ll vote for whoever I want ,get mi?

    I’ll have no unionist arse living in France telling me who to vote for in my own land.
    If I need to vote SNP – I will.Depends who runs and what the margins are.2nd vote goes to ISP.

    One thing,I’ll no be voting Tory/Slab/Fibdems or any unionist scum. Get me, aye?

  110. bipod says:


    I am saying that lockdown is not realistic outside of a laboratory setting. It is foolish and naive to believe that in the real world you can construct a lockdown tight (where nobody ever meets or interacts with anyone else) enough to stop a highly contagious virus from spreading in a place where it is already established. I know that you believe that if we had “proper” 6 week lockdown it would be gone it but you are just wrong. I am sorry you can’t understand my point.

    Yes Scotland has been turned into a totalitarian state, totally out of proportion to the actual danger and it hasn’t really done any good anyway.

  111. bipod says:

    Remember sweden didn’t lockdown like us, it gave advice on social distancing measures and hygiene. How does Sweden compare to Scotland which did lockdown? If lockdowns are so great why has Scotland done no better.

    I remember at the start of all this it was predicted that sweden would have 85,000 covid deaths in the first few months if it didn’t follow the same lockdown measures that were being introduced across the UK at the time. That didn’t happen but people here still seem to believe that 500,000 lives were seriously at stake.

  112. Suzanne K says:

    It would be interesting to know how many civil servants they had working on the GRA and Hate Crime Bill…

  113. Hatuey says:

    bipod, the first lockdown we had almost eradicated it.

    We know that you can effectively eradicate it and live normally if you control people going in and out of the country, have a proper track and trace system, and test thoroughly and systematically. The reason we know that is because countries like Singapore have done it – 28 deaths in total, with the whole economy, schools, etc., all open as normal.

    The timing of your argument is odd though because the truth is there’s never been a stronger case for lockdown than there is today. The vaccines change everything in that respect and bolster the argument for lockdown as a temporary measure which we use until the vaccine is rolled out.

    Most people who argued for herd immunity (which is essentially what you are arguing for and which is really a mass suicide pact) have jumped on the anti-vaxxer band wagon. Why not you?

  114. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Sweden,Sweden,bloody Sweden.
    Give it a rest will yi.
    You could walk 50 mile a day for 5 days in Sweden and not come across a soul.Maybee a few raindeer.

    Staying away from people ain’t hard man

  115. Hatuey says:

    bipod, I’m sorry to tell you this, but all your arguments are about 6 months out of date and 6 months is a long time when it comes to pandemics.

    Sweden has had plenty of deaths and they’ve just introduced a raft of new measures that pretty much the same as some of ours.

    Also, the idea that they just carried on as normal is a myth. They advised old and vulnerable people to isolate and most did.

    This whole discussion is out of date though. The vaccine is coming.

  116. holymacmoses says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    25 November, 2020 at 11:12 pm
    “you canny think the `hands of God` is a religious reference and not a dig at his accidental hand ball against England in 86,”

    Of course it’s a bloody reference to the handball. That’s not the same as a “dig”.

    It’s a typical piece of Lineker irony – quite lovely and affectionate, I think.
    ‘Safe in the arms of Jesus’ and carried to that place by the ‘Iglesia Maradoniana Church’.

  117. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Good tool to compare sizes of country’s

  118. Iain More says:

    I once went on a two week walking/canoeing holiday in northern Sweden and northern Finland and met and seen and heard nobody. I doubt if I could do that now with all those folks that want to shield or self isolate.

  119. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Aye Iain More

    You’re mor likely to meet a wolf,a moose or raindeer than a human up there.
    You may want to take on the virus rather than the moose or the wolf.The wolf will have mates too!

  120. Papko says:

    Fair play to Lineker a moving tribute to Maradona.
    I will never forget how he beat us in 1986 and the deep
    disappointment throughout the British isles when our team was out of the World Cup.

  121. wee monkey says:

    Hatuey says:
    25 November, 2020 at 11:32 pm
    bipod, the first lockdown we had almost eradicated it.

    We know that you can effectively eradicate it and live normally if you control people going in and out of the country, have a proper track and trace system, and test thoroughly and systematically. The reason we know that is because countries like Singapore have done it – 28 deaths in total, with the whole economy, schools, etc., all open as normal.

    You do realise that Scotland is 109 times larger than Singapore
    and with a coastline of 18,672 kms compared to 193km right?

  122. Hatuey says:

    wee monkey: “You do realise that Scotland is 109 times larger than Singapore and with a coastline of 18,672 kms compared to 193km right?”

    LOL. I actually wasn’t aware of those details. I guess I’m one of those under-achievers.

    Of course, that makes what Singapore has managed all the more impressive – and our handling all the more disappointing – since it’s much more difficult to contain disease where you have high population density.

    I’m not sure the coastline is very relevant. It’s not as if we have more than a few ports that receive international travelers in Scotland. Despite our country being larger, I’d imagine our borders are easier to control.

  123. twathater says:

    Maggie C again thanks for ALL your links and also Ian Brotherhood

    Maggie I read them yesterday and the one that is unbelievably outrageous is the one by AS lawyers in having to repeat the numerous times that AS has asked for financial assistance to assist and enable the inquiry to reach a conclusion and has received NO RESPONSES to his questions

    Alex Salmond is a PRIVATE CITIZEN ASSISTING the members of the Scottish Parliament to investigate whether any irregularities took place or whether the Scottish Government were pursuing at the cost of £600,000 to £1 million to US the taxpayer a spurious malicious attempt to malign and defame a man who was proven innocent of all charges

    WHY should Alex Salmond have to pay any costs for his solicitors to supply ANY DOCUMENTATION to enable the SP inquiry to reach a conclusion , the SP and inquiry committee should pay these legal costs

    What if Alex Salmond just said FUCK IT i’ve no money left to pay lawyers , would the SP inquiry still carry on , would they pay for lawyers to supply the documents , or would they just wind up the inquiry and say the usual “nothing to see here move on”

    Is this the same modus operandi as Martin Keatings S30 case , the SG obfuscate , delay ,withdraw , reappear , oppose , all designed to wear people down and DEPLETE , DEPLETE the funds needed to fight the case

    IMO this inquiry and the way the SG and SP are carrying on is disgraceful , abhorrent and a RANCID STAIN on our parliament , and every MSP in the SP should be ashamed of what THEY are allowing to take place.

    Get a VONC in Nicola Sturgeon and John Swinney and LANCE the boil

  124. WhoRattledYourCage says:

    Holymacmoses, it was also a comment on mad people inventing ‘realities’that others are damned to angrily and depresssingly investigate for the duration of the terms of the government doing the inventing.

  125. susanXX says:

    I see the STA (scotgov funded) want to intervene in the Judicial Review FWS obtained to query the redefinition of “women” what shits they are.

  126. Breeks says:

    twathater says:
    26 November, 2020 at 3:47 am

    …AS has asked for financial assistance to assist and enable the inquiry to reach a conclusion and has received NO RESPONSES to his question…

    I feel quite sure if Mr Salmond needed help, he wouldn’t need to look very far to find it, and find it in abundance. I wonder therefor if there’s an element of principle in this.

    This latest revelation about a team of 7 assigned to Scottish Independence just frankly beggars belief.

    No wonder Sturgeon seized on COVID like a drowning man clutching at straws. In every possible theatre relating to Scottish Independence, the SNP has been a catastrophic disappointment.

    Opportunities squandered, no Scottish Constitutional backstop, not one millimeter of purchase gained from Joanna Cherry’s landmark Court victories, our European Citizenship forfeited, (and yes, forfeited, not lost, because even a token resistance to Brexit would have derailed it).

    The money is gone, the membership is in freefall, there’s NOBODY even working on an Independence Strategy.

    Instead, we have a corrupt coterie of Nicola Sturgeon’s pals and sycophants finding all the time in the world to orchestrate a conspiracy to smear Alex Salmond and further themselves by doing so, and it only failed when examined by a jury…

    The corruption of the Establishment and “system” bending backwards to protect the identities of the dishonest conspirators, but presenting not one single safeguard or protection to interrupt a false conspiracy against an innocent man coming to public fruition. Shameful!

    And when these accustions are made, (not groundless accusations because they are cross referenced and sourced), is there any competent response from the SNP? Nothing. Escape and evasion.

    Nothing but scathing derision from Cosy-Feet Pete, and the Dark Prince of the Wokeratti, Alyn Smith.

    Waken up Scotland, before it’s too late. This cannot go on. Either we reclaim the SNP or we replace it.

    But please, take a while to mull that prospect over… Don’t allow your mind to framed by the prevailing agenda. May Elections are predicated by Holyrood’s Scotland Act constitution (small’c’). A sovereign people can assert their own timeframe, and Hell mend Westminster AND Holyrood.

    Suppose the plan is not to replace the SNP at Holyrood, but to replace Holyrood wholesale, root and branch, with a new Constitutional Parliament or Scottish Senate which draws it’s authority from the Scottish Nation’s founding Constitution which enshrines popular Sovereignty upon the Scottish People.

    Sever our links with Westminster, sever our links with Westminster’s puppet government in Holyrood, and reconvene the TRUE Scottish Parliament not seen in Scotland since 1707, which answers to nobody except the Sovereign people of Scotland… A Parliament, which merely by sitting, challenges the Treaty of Union, and breach upon breach of the Treaty is no longer fudged by sophistry and expedient ‘unwritten’ convention, but is pursued to it’s explicit and binary Constitutional conclusion until the Treaty of Union collapses. The people of Scotland are Sovereign.

    We DON’T make the SNP our enemy, but we do present them with an ultimatum. Stay in your cosy seat in Westmionster or Holyrood, the generous bosom of the Union, and languish in pointless irrelevance, or, denounce the Union, denounce it as breached in spirit, and come and join the Constitutional Scottish Parliament and be part of the process which finally puts this broken Union out of it’s misery.

  127. Effijy says:

    Papko says:
    26 November, 2020 at 12:23 am
    Fair play to Lineker a moving tribute to Maradona.
    I will never forget how he beat us in 1986 and the deep
    disappointment throughout the British.

    US? Any cheers you heard up here in that game were for Maradona’s magic.
    The sale of Argentinian strips in Scotland went through the roof.
    I try not to dislike English teams but their arrogant commentators and pundits
    Drowning us in their fake glory just sickens neutrals and makes you support the undrdog.

    The term Its coming home has been used for decades and yet they never come close.
    Having every England game at all levels and sexes on Scottish TV while zero for our own team
    just fuels that fire.

    For a rich country with a population of over 50 million, their track record in the World Cup
    and Euro Championships stinks.

    In the last 50 years they haven’t even made a final while teams like Germany, Italy, France and Spain are regular winners.
    Even the countries they say are too small to do anything have won such as Greece and Denmark.

    When they did win in 1966, the game should on TV again any day know, the war wasn’t too long finished. A controversial decision on an England goal was left to a Russian linesman.
    Now being Russian, a country that lost 26,000 people in the war against Germany, does he go against the Germans, the enemy, or England?

    Their arrogance and Devine right mentality prevents them from winning.

    My last word Iceland 2- England 1.
    A supermarket team beat God’s own team at a distance!

  128. McDuff says:

    Good post. The only thing I would say is when you say ” we DON’T make an enemy of the SNP”, it’s the SNP who has made themselves the enemy.

    They are delberately destroying the hope and aspirations of a people and rather than freeing us from this corrupt union they seem determined to keep us shackled to it. So what is really going on here???

  129. Tannadice Boy says:

    Harassment Inquiry calling Peter Murrell to give evidence. We must get the MSM to change the name from the Salmond Inquiry to Murrellgate or some other description. After yesterday there will be a few people who had a sleepless night.

  130. Graeme says:

    Does anyone on here truly consider Holyrood a continuation of the true Scottish parliament that closed in 1707 ?

  131. Tannadice Boy says:

    @Twathater 3 47
    Unfortunately a VONC won’t do it either. A VONC is not legally binding and can and will be ignored. When the Murrells talked about bringing the house down I thought they were talking about the SNP. It may well be the case they were talking about the Parliament. Every day this situation persists is bringing the Parliament into disrepute. It is really up to all MSPs to protect the Parliament. How the Murrells think they can walk away from this is beyond me. He mis-spoke and she forgot and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

  132. Daisy Walker says:

    @Graeme says:
    26 November, 2020 at 9:01 am
    Does anyone on here truly consider Holyrood a continuation of the true Scottish parliament that closed in 1707 ?’

    I had not really thought about it, since I don’t really know what the auld government looked like. But is it not a moot point?

    The weakness of the ‘Scots are Sovereign’ principle, is it needs a collective representation, deemed suitably legal/democratic to represent and negotiate on behalf of the Sovereign People.

    In that regard, Holyrood will do just fine thank you… provided we ever get a chance to express our sovereign will at the ballot box, of course.

  133. ScotsRenewables says:


    Which is easiest within a realistic time frame, replacing the SNP or reclaiming them?

    I see McWhirter is claiming the party are abandoning their commitment to unilateral nuclear disarmament. They are lukewarm at best on independence. They are being hijacked by narrow, obsessive self-interest groups. They are no longer recognisable as the party I joined nine years ago, or as the party I began voting for nearly 50 years ago.

    But they have huge public support. The Indy opposition is fragmented and largely unknown.

    To my mind the way forward is reclamation, but how? A change of leadership, soon, would seem to be the way forward. But how? The Salmond enquiry may do it, I am beginning to hope it does.

    I still think there are a lot of tinfoil hats needed BTL here, and I do not think that constant vilification is the way to go about it. But the basic message is becoming clearer, and if the party leadership are NOT interested in power for its own sake then they are giving a very good impression of it.

    I am now hoping AS or another big name will throw their lot in with a pro-indy list party. I still think an SNP majority is needed to rubber stamp a plebiscite or declaration, but we must have a strong pro-indy opposition to keep (make?) them honest and expose them when they threaten to betray us.

    I will stay in the tent pissing out for now, but I doubt it will be SNP 1&2 for me.

    And – while maintaining my view that the tinfoil hat count here is too high and the tone too aggressive – I have to thank Stu and some others for helping keep me an honest and alert reader.

  134. Famous15 says:

    The real and only question is how do you determine the will of the sovereign Scottish people.

    We should have seized upon Margaret Thatcher PM saying a majority of SNP MPs would be a vote for independence but perhaps it was so unlikely at the time we took it as she probably meant it , as a jibe.

    What now? I would say a majority voting for Scottish parties with independence in their manifesto in any election would do it and forget UDI as we are not really a colony , but a declaration to the UN ?(

  135. ScotsRenewables says:

    This is a good article from a few months ago about the fight for the soul of the SNP:

    (probably most on here have read it already?)

  136. Republicofscotland says:

    One of your articles (yesterday) made its way into the National today, well more of a to and fro between you and Daddy Bear.

  137. robert Hughes says:

    Great post Mr Despiser of Twats . When you see the rollcall of abject failure and corruption layed-out in that manner one’s dejection is matched only by anger , in fact exceeded , and a mounting sense of despair at the looming tidal wave of Unionist legislation set to engulf and overwhelm our country and institutions ; while our erstwhile ” leaders ” use every excuse they can find ( Sturgeon’s Florence Nightingale morphing into Nurse Ratched ” Covid medication time ! ” act being the most deceitful ) to delay and if possible avoid the invitable confrontation with the Brit State . Will no one rid us of this turbulent pestilence ?

  138. Daisy Walker says:

    I’ve not been keeping as up to date as I should re the Sturgeon Inquiry.

    Below is a wee segment from AS’s solicitors letter.

    “It soon became apparent to our client that a significant number of these documents are completely irrelevant to the Committee’s remit.

    “Additionally, neither we nor our client had received a material number of these documents before. This was in spite of formal recovery processes in both the Judicial Review and a warrant served on the Government in the criminal case [which led to a trail in March in which Mr Salmond was acquitted of sexual assault].

    “A number of these could potentially have been of great assistance to our client.

    We are considering the legal consequences of this with our client and with counsel.

    “We have asked the Government for an explanation but they have not replied.”

    Mr McKie said that four batches of documents had been approved for release between 13 and 19 November, making a total of 289 that ministers were free to pass to the inquiry.

    The remaining 101 documents are expected to be checked by November 27, although two “remain missing”.

    Leaving aside my tinfoil hat for now… bloody hell.

    The Scot Gov – deliberately, failed to provide documents (in defiance of a court order) to AS’s solicitors which could have assisted in his defence.

    Bloody hell. 2 crime types spring to mind – Contempt of Court and Attempting to Pervert the Course of Justice.

    And they are still at it….

    ‘our batches of documents had been approved for release between 13 and 19 November, making a total of 289 that ministers were free to pass to the inquiry.

    The remaining 101 documents are expected to be checked by November 27, although two “remain missing”.’

    More missing documents. Which have already been listed and entered into evidence in the court… what kind of idiot attempts to lose documents in these circumstances. Desperate stuff.

    I wonder just how much evidence will be required before the penny drops with the NS loyalty brigade. Still ‘look at the polls’.

    Some questions for the SNP

    What tangible, coordinated actions/projects will you be undertaking (in a Covid appropriate manner) to build on the current high levels of support for Indy?

    What tangible, coordinated actions/projects will you be undertaking (in a Covid appropriate manner) to ensure the Scottish voting public are aware of the Internal Market Bill Power Grab and the detriment it is to Devolution and Holyrood?

    Given the negative publicity and the damage to credibility regarding the manner in which SNP Accounts have been produced – leading to reasonable grounds to suspect about half a million pounds of Indy Supporters money for Indy Ref2 has been Embezzled – what steps are being taken to rectify that ‘misconception’ between a legally recognised term of ‘ring fenced’ and more dubious ‘interwoven through’ (while the overdraft gets paid off) disclosure.

    In the event of criminal investigation – can those who had the authority and responsibility to access this ‘ring fenced/interwoven through’ account be named at this time in order to facilitate a speedy enquiry and prevent unnecessary stress and stain on those not involved being suspected.

    Alex Salmond was a serving member of the SNP when first wrongly accused – and then subjected to legal procedures ‘tainted by apparent bias’ – all while the SNP were in Government. His crowdfunder for legal assistance received widespread criticism from high up members of the SNP.

    It has since been discovered that 2 serving members of the SNP have received legal funding from SNP funds, including the paying out of compensation. By what criteria is legal funding allocated? is the policy written down anywhere, who qualifies for this assistance, who decides if funds should be granted.

    You will of course understand, that failure to produce/publish a policy of this nature, leads fully to suspicion of discrimination under employment laws – a perk for those and such as those, and only for them.

    Since some form of policy (even if not yet written) clearly does exist – did AS qualify for this assistance? And if he did, and has not received it, have the SNP discriminated against him?

    Concerns have been expressed with regards the professional/employment boundaries between Mr and Mrs Murrell.

    What steps has Nicola Sturgeon taken to Recuse herself, and place other members of the SNP Executive in charge with regards her husband’s terms of employment, pay and reward, any disciplinary issues which may arise?

    That’ll do to start with.

  139. robert graham says:

    The Refugees from La La Land are contributing to this sites Traffic numbers ha ha mugs ,
    they can’t help it because News on their preferred site where worship of the inhabitants of Bute House is obligatory
    News is a bit thin on the ground so they hang around here before they make snide comments about Stu and visitors to the site

    Morning Petra – Dr Jim and all the others who still believe Independence is just round the corner. Come on make a comment you know you want to oh come on enlighten us all

  140. ScotsRenewables says:

    Is anyone else going to Conference?

    If so, do they have a shortcut to times and procedures for voting?

    I don’t have time to sit through endless virtual self-congratulatory pap as Saturday is my partner’s birthday and I have better things to do, but I do want to vote for Craig Murray for President and as many Common Weal and Womens Pledge candidates as possible.

    A shortcut to times and procedures would be helpful. Otherwise I will try to post the same info here after I find out for myself.

  141. Republicofscotland says:

    This is a bit disconcerting, a new major report by the Scottish Centre on European Relations, found that there’s a broad openness about Scotland joining the EU as long as it follows a legally and constitutionally sound referendum carried out in AGREEMENT BETWEEN LONDON AND EDINBURGH.

    Does anyone actually think Johnson will agree to an S30? No nor do I, we await with bated breath Mr Keatings court finding on the matter next year.

  142. maureen says:

    Reason for delays of documentation requested could be to bog down Alex Salmond and drag review out into next years Holyrood election, assuming that even goes ahead. The hope being that he will be further tarnished in the MSM so that if he were to lead up a list party for independence, he would be shunned by anyone who hasn’t been following the committee outcome or reading Wings.It can’t all be about saving their own necks, can it?

  143. Hatuey says:

    I’ve watched that performance several times.

    It’s amazing how calm Davidson looks compared to Sturgeon. Yet, everything Sturgeon says here in all of her responses, in total, amounts to one big argument for Sturgeon being the calm one.

    Everything seems to depend on those complainers feeling inspired to come forward, years after Salmond had left office. Everything.

  144. ScotsRenewables says:

    Common Weal Group candidates are:

    SNP CWG candidates selected are as follows:

    Cllr Stephanie Callaghan
    Robert Leslie
    Ash Denham MSP
    Catriona MacDonald
    Sarah Masson
    Joan McAlpine
    Cllr Paul McLennan
    Christine Graham MSP
    Cllr Colm Merrick
    Stuart McMillan
    Tom Wills

    CaltonJock has a list of all the ‘fundamentalist’ candidates worth voting for down near the bottom of this page:

  145. bipod says:

    I’m afraid these still are important points Hatuey, maybe you haven’t noticed but we are currently in a lockdown and nicola has even more lockdowns planned all the way until April, we should be asking the question do theses things actually work, and is it worth the cost. If we have a vaccine that allows us to remove all restrictions then great, but somehow I don’t think that is going to happen. Nicola will find a reason to keep many of the restrictions for as long as she possibly can and the vaccine will just be another hoop we have to jump through.

    Sweden did introduce measures but nothing like what we have done here, that is the whole point, if lockdown is so effective why can’t Scotland say that it has preformed significantly better than no lockdown sweden. There is no correlation between lockdowns and successfully controlling the virus.

  146. Stuart MacKay says:


    That’s a reasonable and uncontroversial thing to say. Remember not all of the countries in the EU will be fully aware of the nature of the union. Once Scotland is independent as long as it was via a credible legal route and not via an armed uprising then the EU leaders are a pragmatic bunch and will welcome a new member. Even if they throw up their hands in horror they’re still going to trade with Scotland so we’d be no worse, and likely a lot better off than we are right now.

  147. Ottomanboi says:

    Johnson is an English/British nationalist/patriot who seemingly by just doing nothing is keeping the SNP in its cage….to which it has the key.
    Scottish history is full of « what might have beens » had their been the imagination, foresight and political will.

  148. Republicofscotland says:

    Stuart @11.01am.


    I’m not concerned about EU nation’s trading with an independent Scotland, I’m more concerned that, will they recognise our independence in the first place if we do not get a S30 from Johnson.

  149. Ottomanboi says:

    BIPOD 10:51
    Sweden went in part for the community immunity option and was widely attacked for doing so by the likes of Covid guru Ferguson who, in typical algorithmic form, forecast catastrophe.
    Sturgeon is showing her buttoned up, nannying, controlling »Calvinism » in this matter. Time she loosened her stays or got out the way.
    Of course, Scots might just tell her where she can stick her « bletherskite ».

  150. Andy Ellis says:

    @Stuart & republicofscotland

    The international community is inherently conservative with a small “c”. It dislikes the prospect of conflict and uncertainty. It is also ill prepared and has little precedent for dealing with situations like Quebec, Scotland and Catalonia: in modern times it has chiefly been concerned with de-colonisation situations, violent conflict and the disintegration of multi-national states like the USSR and Yugoslavia.

    In relation to our current situation in Scotland, this is another reason why the Scottish Government / SNP’s failure to address the legality of #indyref2 without a S30 Order is so pivotal.

    The international community will, as others have mentioned, only recognise Scottish independence under certain circumstances. It would MUCH prefer it to happen as a result of a mutually agreed referendum on the same pattern as 2014. That is exactly why the #indyref1 process was so highly praised and held up as an example of how to do things. Things would therefore be relatively simple if we were being offered #indyref2 on the same terms as #indyref1, but we’re not.

    We are now faced with a situation where we have to convince the international community that it is legitimate for us to change horses mid stream from using an agreed referendum as a mandate for independence, to using plebiscitary elections. Whatever clueless gradualists like Pete Wishart (or indeed British nationalists) say, both paths are equally legitimate. Indeed, referendums are historically and constitutionally a far less common route to independence than elections, constituent assemblies or simple parliamentary votes (à la Czechia and Slovakia).

    The fact the non-referendum route might take longer to “socialise” with the international community generally, and EU in particular, is entirely the fault of the SNP for its wishy-washy approach to the principles of self-determination and its inherent gradualism. It is to all intents and purposes a devo-max party, not a party truly committed to real independence.

  151. robert Hughes says:

    Thanks for that comment Bipod . It has nothing to do with ” denialism ” or -zzzz – ” Tin foil hattery ” to be extremely sceptical of the efficacy of lockdowns and other restrictions – the evidence is increasing to the contrary , and deeply suspicious of how this situation is being manipulated by Governments , as you infer , including our own . Prof Carl Heneghan from the Oxford Centre for EVIDENCE-based Medicine is one of many respected voices being raised in alarm at the manner in which the ” official ” narrative is both scientifically unsound and politically dangerous

  152. katherine hamilton says:

    Just a thought. I noted somewhere on Twitter that Alex Salmond may be needing financial support, presumably because of the multiple delays cause by SNP government deliberately dragging their feet. My recollection is both Martin Keatings and Craig Murray had to extend their crowdfunders because of similar tactics.

    If that is the case he needs our support. As I posted on the previous thread, Mr. Salmond is up against evil. (Rev and us as Voldemort!). The attempts by the SNP to humiliate, denigrate and publicly crucify him, all the time facilitated and encouraged by their pals in the MSM and BBC, should he launch a crowdfunder, is too much to ask of him.

    Rev you have led the defence on here, particularly against the alphabet women, Smyth the woke leader, Garavelli/Wark/Smith et/al. You have previously said the resignation of Sturgeon for misleading Parliament is probably the only way to get rid of her and burst the dam. This inquiry is the only way to get that. If Mr. Salmond needs money to continue the fight to expose her we need to give it to him.

    Rev, we know you are in contact with him. Is it appropriate to launch a Support Alex Salmond crowdfunder, via Wings, to achieve this goal? If at the end of the day he doesn’t need it, stick it in the fighting fund.

    Pressure about costs should not be one he carries alone.

  153. Republicofscotland says:

    Katherine @11.40am.


    Here it is Salmond’s lawyers asking the Scottish government to help pay his legal fees, which I think it should, it has behind it the full weight of taxpayers monies and the full extent of the countries legal expertise.

  154. Republicofscotland says:

    Ady Ellis @11.25am.

    Andy insightive comment.

  155. katherine hamilton says:

    Thanks for that. Hopefully his lawyers will prevail and we can all relax. But I think we need to remain vigilant.

  156. James Che. says:

    Breeks excellent diagnosis of the situation at hand,
    I am truly exasperated when reading the comments on the most of our Scottish site, we seem to be happy to whisper behind our hands like coronation street gossipers, “have you heard what such an such did”, “ have you heard what so an so said”, For goodness sake Scotland wake up,
    We know what the Snp are not doing for us, why heed them at all, we’re not snp subsidy junkies are we, waiting for our daily fix. Our daily gossip. On and on it goes, month after month, and year after year, we do the same, “Oh the snp have let us down,” Oh Westminster are mean, Oh the mainstream media are bad,
    Why carry on, let’s just wait and see what someone else does tomorrow. Then we can talk about that.
    Wake up. Your country is being raided of its assets, your youngsters are leaving home and Scotland, your devolution parliament is working against you and not, for the Scottish nation,
    Your fisheries and coastline are someone else’s bargaining chips in a Brexit you didn’t vote for, your smaller farming industries are beginning to struggle, your jobs and work are disappearing,
    Your sleep walking and talking into your own countries suicide. You will be no more, you will not exist in a few months or a years time,
    You the people have the sovereignty of choice what to do, and how to save the country you go to bed in at night, You.
    I make no apologies for giving you all a kicking up the backside, to wake you up.

  157. cirsium says:

    @Katherine Hamilton 11.40

    Good comment. It does look like more of the same tactics used on Craig Murray, Martin Keatings, and Mark Hirst – drag the proceedings out with the goal of ruining the person financially and throw in some defamation at the same time knowing that the person cannot afford a legal remedy.

    Regarding the request for reimbursement, how likely is it that the Scottish Government will respond in the affirmative given it has just supplied a batch of documents which requires checking for relevance?

  158. Harry mcaye says:

    Effijy – Also, every match in 1966 was played at Wembley. Very unusual, even for a host nation, to get to play all their games at their recognised home stadium. Argentina in 78 also played in Rosario. France in 98 played all over the country. Many other examples. Happened in Euro96 too. This never gets mentioned.

  159. twathater says:

    @ James Che 12.45pm I and many others on here are in agreement with you , I have openly pleaded with independence supporting LEGAL EXPERTS to PLEASE show us the way to appeal to the ICJ and the UN to CONFIRM Scottish citizens sovereignty , as in the declaration of Arbroath 100 of us Scottish citizens can then crowd fund to vanquish the myth that WE are beholden to WM sovereignty , thereafter we can hold a referendum or plebicitary election (our choice) to end the union , with NO input from WM

    The FAILURE OF STURGEON to action this route becomes even more damaging to her credibility

  160. James Che. says:

    Twathater Good to hear you are at least trying to think your way out of the situation that most others here are ignoring,
    It may not be the route I personally would choose at this late point in time not because I disagree with you, but rather due to the lack of time we have, we should have tried this as one of our routes when the Brexit election was newly done, along with naming why acts of the treaty of the union has been broken by Westminster’s governments over a long period of years.
    All these methods cost precious time, and due to missed opportunities by Holyrude and the snp whom had many mandates from us all,
    We the sovereign people of Scotland now must act, we cannot wait on Scottish politicians whom seem to be happy with a high esteem job that is well paid and secure during covid,
    While the rest of Scotland is suffering untold financial difficulties and have no voice.
    I admire anyone whom like yourself, breeks, Ben and a few others, are looking for solutions for all Scots to have the right to self determination of the nation of Scotland.

  161. Donna says:

    Iv read some of the comments, and i think they are doing the right thing. Sorry if i don’t think independence is more important than saving lives with this pandemic, they haven’t given up on their goal they are prioritising and right now saving lives is the way to go, i have full faith in nicola and the snp, i voted yes in the last referendum and will vote yes again in the next one but priorities are priorities and agree covid deaths have to be prevented

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