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The certain death of the Union

Posted on November 16, 2013 by

We haven’t mentioned the Telegraph’s blustery old colonel Alan Cochrane for a while, because his columns in the right-wing broadsheet have recently veered from, well, let’s say Nigel Farage to Nick Griffin. Not in content, you understand – for all Mr Cochrane’s unpleasant faults we see no suggestion of racism – but in tone.


Gone is the note of jocularity, the benignly patrician manner of the bluff-but-affable old British gent, replaced increasingly by poisonous, angry and disturbingly personalised hatred twinned with a rank and ugly intellectual laziness – traits which seem to have spread from the paper’s “Scottish political correspondent” Simon Johnson.

Today’s column illustrates both facets.

In a piece labouring under the unwieldy and contrived title “Starved of facts on UK split, can Scots stomach another helping of ‘Project Fib’?”, Cochrane pads out a few paragraphs with empty waffle before alighting on his point:

“Among other things we need from the White Paper are the following: what will the personal tax rates be in an independent Scotland; what will the VAT rate be; what will be the rate of Corporation Tax; how much will old age pensions be and how will they be paid for; at what level will welfare benefits be set.”

Now, it doesn’t take a lot of effort to point out how fatuously stupid that is. Take out two words and add just ten and you end up with this:

“Among other things we need from the UK government’s ‘Scotland Analysis’ reports are the following: what will the personal tax rates be in the UK in 2016; what will the VAT rate be; what will be the rate of Corporation Tax; how much will old age pensions be and how will they be paid for; at what level will welfare benefits be set.”

Because of course, all of those things have changed significantly in the UK recently. The main rate of VAT has variously been 17.5%15%, 17.5% again and 20% in the last five years alone, and the items on which the basic, lower and zero rates are applied are the subject of constant scrutiny and alteration.

Corporation Tax was 33% as recently as 2001, then 30% until 2007, was cut to 28% by Gordon Brown, then cut again to 26% by George Osborne, and then cut further to the current 24%. By 2014 it’s scheduled to be 22%. That’s a breathtaking fall of one-third in the rate over barely over a decade.

(Of course, despite UK governments of all parties having reduced the tax by 11% in a short space of time, the notion that an independent Scottish Government might cut it by a further 3% is unfailingly portrayed by Unionists as a dangerous, irresponsible “race to the bottom” – even, audaciously, by the man who personally cut it by 5%.)

In just the last 35 years – barely one generation – the basic and higher rates of UK income tax have both been cut in half, from 40%/83% to 20%/45% respectively.

Readers of this site won’t need reminding of the havoc that’s been wreaked on welfare benefits since mid-2010. The pension age is being extended, and all manner of benefits paid to the elderly are being questioned and/or threatened with means-testing by all three UK parties.

We could go on, but you get the idea – demanding guaranteed fixed answers about a prospective independent Scotland, when there is (and can be) no certainty about those things in ANY country, including the UK, is such a toweringly cretinous exercise it defies belief that someone’s being paid for it.

(And that’s before you even get to the bit where you remember that the referendum decides a principle, not policies. Tax rates are set by governments, and governments are decided at elections, not referendums.)

When pressed on this sort of stupidity, it’s not uncommon (11m 30s) for advocates of the Union to say “Ah, but we’re not the ones demanding change, so we don’t have to defend anything – it’s only you that’s got to make a case”.

Which is so epically stupid, even in the context of the preceding argument, that we apologise in advance for being about to insult your intelligence by spelling out why.

To all intents and purposes, the 1707 Union of Scotland and England will end on 17 September 2014. There are only two options on the ballot paper that will be put in front of voters the following day, and each represents an active, not passive, choice.

The people of Scotland can either decide to run their own affairs from that point, or to choose – for the first time, because the Scottish Parliament which signed the Acts of Union was in no way democratically representative of the people, who had no say in the matter and were busily rioting in the streets in protest when it happened – to surrender their recently-asserted sovereignty to the Crown in London.

Mr Cochrane, in his witless and accidental way, has shone a revealing light on that stark fact. There is no “status quo”. As we’ve just shown, every aspect of life in the UK is subject to constant change. Even ten years ago, who would have predicted state-run banks with 0% interest rates, a privatised Royal Mail and an effectively-privatised (English) NHS, £9,000 tuition fees (in 2003 they were still £1,000) and foodbanks in every town and city, to pick just a handful of examples?

The referendum is not a choice between change and stasis. It’s a choice between two competing visions of change. One where Scotland chooses its own path, electing its own governments and taking responsibility for itself, and one where we elect to abandon ourselves to the mercies of English voters and take our chances.

Perhaps David Cameron did play Alex Salmond for a sucker over the referendum after all, though not in the way other clueless Telegraph commentators south of the border pretend. Because making the options on the ballot paper Yes and No presents a false picture of reality.

Saying “No” to a proposition implies “don’t change, keep things the way they are”, and that’s simply not what’s on offer from the Union. What’s coming, as Cameron so candidly and crassly revealed from his golden throne this week, is an ever-increasing tightening of austerity’s grip.

Everything currently possessed by the poor and the squeezed middle alike is eyed greedily by the insatiable rich. Some of it has already been stolen away, the theft lubricated by petty bribes just as the Union itself was. A No vote will not be a vote to keep it, but a vote to have to fight tirelessly against impossible odds in a crooked game to hold onto anything at all.

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143 to “The certain death of the Union”

  1. Helena Brown says:

    We are very aware in our house that things will never be the same after September the 18th but we oldies welcome it. Are we to be a grown up Nation or are we to continue as so many English people think, keep sucking on the teat. Those who are and  are the most virulent are those who have been collecting their money in the South and do not want it to end. Our Unionist MP’s, the Politicians who made it the the House of Lords and then we have those in the media who earn their crust denigrating their Nation.

  2. Atypical_Scot says:

    Absolutely BRILLIANT. 

  3. Andrew Morton says:

    I was amused to see the minor correction which Alan Cochrane made concerning a recent article. Presumably this is intended to give the impression that he is a stickleback for accuracy in the hope that we won’t notice the fantasies which he is peddling in the article in question.

  4. Les Wilson says:

    I watched an article debated on RT yesterday, where they had David Cameron filmed at a “do “, where amongst gold coloured chairs and grand settings complete with Ladies and Gentlemen in their best attire. Where he spoke about the UK adopting a permanent ideal of austerity.
    RT scoffed at him, I do not do that, I loath him and what he and Westminster stands for. So he wishes to impose austerity on the less fortunate in order to feed and indeed applaud the rich who currently rule us.
    Where just has to be a better way. We can simply x YES in 2014 and change all of this. 

  5. David McCann says:

    Excellent podcast on the economics of independence, by of all people the BBC. I hope the excellent Robin McAlpine is used widely by the Yes campaign. His sheer enthusiasm is infectious.

  6. clare maitland says:

     Project Fear, Project Smear
    NOW coming to a Scot Sec near you questioning…(What does a Scot Sec do?)
    Project Projection
    Alistair C contemplates his Scotchness
    Alistair D asks TOO MANY questions
    Projection is a defense mechanism that involves taking our own unacceptable qualities or feelings and ascribing them to other people. For example, if you have a strong dislike for someone, you might instead believe that he or she does not like you. Projection works by allowing the expression of the desire or impulse, but in a way that the ego cannot recognize, therefore reducing anxiety.

  7. Yesitis says:

    Wow! Rev. My ipad is going to be busy showing off this to all and sundry. A very fine and important piece of writing.

  8. Marker Post says:

    Nail, head.

  9. Juteman says:

    Superb article Stu. Very inspiring.
    I can’t help comparing Cochrane with that TV horse racing pundit McRirick. For some reason, I get the two mixed up. 🙂
    Two plonkers of the highest order.

  10. Murray McCallum says:

    It is these kind of false promises that Cochrane is implying be made that have led to the decline in the belief of democracy.
    Cameron is openly talking about permanent small government and cuts (because that is what wins elections in the south) so no one can claim to be surprised should it end with a No to Scotland outcome and financial hardship.

  11. balgayboy says:

    And the guy is from Scotland to, Dundee FFS…hangs ones head in shame.
    His spouse spews the same shite via the Dundee Courier and whatever rag embraces her unionst propgrandist shite.
    In my view “cochers” has a serious personal identity problem with his upbringing/origin from where he comes from and his desperate acceptance in the establishment social world..
    All I know is that he would definitely be fucked off big time in any Dundee pub with his tory nonsense he spouts in his DT columns.

  12. Juteman says:

    What is it with our city? We produce some fine radical politicians, yet also have tossers like Cochers, Marr and Galloway!

  13. kininvie says:

    Home from a very encouraging morning in Bathgate. Stu’s mum came along to say hello & leave us lots of Wings business cards. But better still, our car stickers were going like hot cakes to Yes voters & plenty of undecideds asking for info.
    Don’t think you need to worry about your home town, Rev.

  14. Jimbo says:

    You can smell their fear and desperation. The closer we get to the referendum, the more rank it becomes.
    Does wee Cochie see himself going the same way as Scotland’s unionist politicians after the YES vote? Is it the case that independence will see a Scottish editor being superfluous to the Telegraph’s needs?

  15. Jimsie says:

    Very succinctly put Stuart. You can summarise in a few words issues that would take most other people a thousand.

  16. David Milligan - a very Sovereign Scot says:

    Brilliant!  That’s got to be one of your best Rev.

    I’m going to commit many of the points you made to memory.

    I think we all should.

    Kindest regards,

    David Milligan Lvss 

  17. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Very succinctly put Stuart. You can summarise in a few words issues that would take most other people a thousand.”

    To be fair, that piece is almost exactly 1000 words 😀

  18. Vincent McDee says:

    The Torygraph distribution in Scotland is circa 15.000, only 3 out of a hundred Scotts bother to read it, while 10% of England do.

    It’s reasonable to suspect how surprised their readers will be with a Yes result, due to the heavy slant Scotland’s reports have now.

    For the Johnsons and Cochranes of this World Scottish Independence is impossible and it just can not be.

    It’s not un-reasonable to suspect “FRAUD AT POLLS” will the front page headline scream, on the 19th of September.

  19. REV , We  need  to get  your  stories  to the  wider  populis  im  thinking  the  Snp  news  papers , buy  the  way  do  you  know  when  a  penny  Whoppers  conna  be  tuppence  doors slammed shut  own the wie  oot Weil   DONE  DEBUNKER

  20. Seanair says:

    Did he and his pal Brian Taylor both go to Dundee High School? They go to Dundee Utd. Matches together—saw them in an Edinburgh pub once near Easter Road. By n adtonishing coincidence Simon Pia was in the same pub….

  21. kininvie says:

    …..have to fight tirelessly against impossible odds in a crooked game to hold onto anything at all…..
    Did last nights poker not go too well? 🙂

  22. balgayboy says:

    juteman says:
    As you know, still a great city and great people, crazy place I know but great fun as well.
    Salt of the earth in my view.

  23. Balgayboy,  Jutenam  ,Ur  yous  twa  lookin  fur  a feigh  as  to  whitch  part  of  Scotland  has  the  biggest  Political  TOSSERS  ye hay tae  mention mair  thin   3  W  here  in the  West  lay  claimm tae  any  titles  gon  dy  ye  conceed  lol

  24. Marcia says:

    If it wasn’t for Public Libraries the circulation of a lot of newspapers would be embarrassing.

  25. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Did last nights poker not go too well? :-)”

    As ATTENTIVE viewers will have noted, I elected to stay in and watch the Scotland game instead. So the “impossible odds” bit still applies 😀

  26. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Stu’s mum came along to say hello”

    Which one are you in the pic, then?

  27. Kinivie  ,  Weil  done  pal  congrates  TO  ALL

  28. Ken500 says:

    ‘Oil tax concession from the UK gov’ widely reported. Scottish Oil sector taxed at 61% (80%+ Corp etc) Increased 11% in the 2011 Budget.(£2Billion),while the Scottish Block Grant was reduced £1.3Bullion a year. Multinationals making vast profits tax evading through the City of London.

    Taxes raised in Scotland £60 Billion – enough for all Scotland needs including Pensions etc. Scotland gets £48Billion back (including £17Billion Pensions/Benefits).

    Total revenues raised in UK. £610Billion (including £40Billion Royal Mail theft?)

    UK government spends £720Billion. £120Billion borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK. Scotland would need to be spending £70Billion to be (pro rata) equal to the rest of the UK.

    Illegal wars, Trident, tax evasion, banking fraud all wasteful UK gov policies. The despicable, disgraceful ‘Room tax’. Thatcher policies, deregulation caused the banking crash. Thatcher sold off Utilities etc, cancelled a Pipe line wasting £Billion of Gas and took equivalent of £20Billion a year in Oil revenues and shut down every manufacturing facility in Scotland.

  29. kininvie says:

    Which one are you in the pic, then?
    The good looking one.

  30. balgayboy says:

    Seanair says:
    I know that blether with brian is an arab but not sure about old tory boy cochers football allegiance are though, hard to get a handle on his type in regards to what team or whatever the fucks supports…..
    I would imagine probably whoever pays the highest price for his interests!

  31. sionnach says:

    Excellent article, Rev! Demonstrates what a good journalist can do if s/he thinks a bit before putting finger to keyboard. Keep ’em coming!
    BTW I sometimes wonder just how many purchasers of the Telegraph actually read it. I have one friend who buys it, but (he’s a rampant socialist) only browses the articles lazily, because he really enjoys the crossword!
    Yes, I know that’s not a statistically significant sample… 😉

  32. david says:

    Its quite annoying Cochrane and his fellow self serving fearties can continually lie, sneer and put scotland and its people down without any accountability. Yet

  33. M4rkyboy says:

    We inherit the tax regime so nothing changes until voted on by Parliament.

  34. scottish_skier says:

    Of course the Telegraph won’t need a columnist for an iScotland. I mean it’s not as if e.g. Le Monde has one.

  35. O / T, Big Davy  Cameroon  lecturing  Sri  Lanka  President  ((  ok  not  a  democratic  country  )   on human  rights   POT  KETTLE  BLACK   270  british  embassy,s    gloryfied  advertiznent   agencys   for   r   U K   exports   Nobodys   listening  to   The  Mother  of  all Parliaments   More   SO  after   2014    sale   of  the  century    second  hand   emmbassy,s   for   Sale   one   Useless  owner   apply   r  UK  PLC

  36. Kirriereoch says:

    @scottish_skier 3.51pm
    I would have thought that Mr Cochrane would actually have an increase in his wages after a Yes vote since he´ll officially become their “foreign correspondent”. Just like Severin Carrell at The Guardian and others.
    I stopped reading and commenting on Mr Cochrane´s articles over a year ago. It was simply too cruel too point out his “misunderestimations.” He is definitely losing the plot regarding the referendum. Regrettably my mother reads The Telegraph and avidly soaks up his words and repeats them to whoever will listen. And she has lots of friends and writes loads of letters to many newspapers.
    Whenever any news of the referendum she literally screams at the TV saying “No bl**dy way!!!” and has seriously fallen out with her brother and their kids, my uncle and cousins, because they say they´ll vote yes. Such is Mr Cochrane´s preaching.

  37. BeamMeUpScotty says:

    Telegraph Foreign corrspondents don’t get paid as much as Scottish Editors.

  38. O / T  Rev    any  stats  on F C O    hand  outs  to  Indea  ie  Punjab  re  Mohammad  Sarwar,s  visit  a  month  since  he  did  nt  come  over  here  tae  hold  his  sons  hand  thats  for  sure   He  had  a  bigger  agenda

  39. Kirriereoch says:

    I have a feeling that part of my comment was a tad “facetious”. 🙂
    I wish the rest of my comment was though 🙁

  40. Hetty says:

    Cameron’s golden throne preaching is sickening and his visit to Sri Lanka to talk about human rights! What, he and his gang want to all but destroy the human rights act for citizens of the UK. They will do just that if they are get their dirty big mits on it when they are voted in next time. 

    Just reading Kirriereochs post, it’s sad to hear when families are falling out over the referendum. That’s exactly what the Tories want, but hopefully it’s not too common. I think people are scared as they believe the lies in the msm too much. There’s time yet for them to see through the lies. 

  41. HandandShrimp says:

    It is the political equivalent of Eric Morcambe’s martial art joke “Get out of that without moving”. By setting a ridiculous bar height the field is open to scream in true deranged Unionist fashion “They have failed, how can you trust them, they are clearly hiding something!!!!!” It would be clever if it was more subtle but accompanied with this level of stupid it is just a bit mentalist….Cochers a bit mentalist…shirley not I here you cry. 

  42. Jen says:

    Saying “No” to a proposition implies “don’t change, keep things the way they are”, and that’s simply not what’s on offer from the Union. What’s coming, as Cameron so candidly and crassly revealed from his golden throne this week, is an ever-increasing tightening of austerity’s grip.

    Do people truly think that the future of Britain is going to be a nice place? I think Cameron’s continual austerity will eventually break the people in England.  The people of Scotland are of no consequence ever.   At some point it’s all going to come crashing down. 

    Voting yes is not the solution to all problems but I think the people of Scotland have a better chance with a Government closer to home and more representative of the electorate.  I think Holyroods voting system is fairer than the first past the post in Westminister. 

  43. Andy-B says:

    The Telegraph, is a Westminster Government mouthpiece, as for corporation tax, I’ve read that ATOS haven’t paid any at all.

  44. Macart says:

    Oh that’s a beezer Rev.
    Must admit to having given up commenting on the Torygraph about a year and a half ago. The more outrageous Cochers became, the more outrageous the comments BTL became. They became a mirror of the loon above the line, making it pointless to even attempt a reasoned debate. Nice to know he’s being helpful though, in his own special way. 😉

  45. PickledOnionSupper says:

    Another excellent article. This:
    Saying “No” to a proposition implies “don’t change, keep things the way they are”, and that’s simply not what’s on offer from the Union. What’s coming, as Cameron so candidly and crassly revealed from his golden throne this week, is an ever-increasing tightening of austerity’s grip.
    needs to be hammered home to ‘No’ voters. Change is happening post-referendum, whatever the result. Scotland needs to decide what sort of change it is signing up for.

  46. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Can anybody explain to me why BBC Ceefax Scotland news is carrying, as one of its more prominent pieces, reports of marches and protests in Portsmouth. 
    On second thoughts don’t bother explaining to me. I know, of course,  that it is to suggest to any Scot reading the piece that the UK Government has been very good to Scotland (again)

  47. velofello says:

    Great article Rev., provides easy to quote stats on future uncertainty vs past changeability.
    “Even ten years ago, who would have predicted… banks in every town and city”.
    I used to use that line on independence regarding how in my childhood the Clyde at “the bells” resounded to the horns of ships in the Clyde, and shipbuilding was a major industry.And look at us now, handwringing over whether an order for 3 naval ships is dependant or not on the referendum result.And unionists toy with the discussion like a cat with a mouse.

  48. Atypical_Scot says:

    Completely O/T, but can’t get it out of my head.
    How many nuclear explosions? 

  49. gordoz says:

    Cochrane’s your classic shit stirrer (usually very little facts involved just Bile & rank ill considered opinion).

    Another who may need to keep his UK passport after September.

    O/T D Bateman’s written a cracker on ‘Academic Gate’ (5 million Q;s @ Dundee Uni)

  50. Sandy Milne says:

    I get the distinct impression now that the MSM is now a spent force as far as a place for reasoned debate is concerned. This may be planned or part of the overall scheme of things as we move towards the referendum. Will we know this? I doubt it but if it achieves change in Scotland and the UK all well and good.
    My own personal experience is I have turned my back on the MSM and the likes of this site is the place to come for reasoned debate and information. Am I alone? I very much doubt that either. Expect the popularity of Wings to grow between now and next September. 

  51. Iain says:

    Seanair (at 14.56)
    Cochrane went to Grove Academy.

  52. Kirriereoch says:

    @Sandy Milne
    “My own personal experience is I have turned my back on the MSM and the likes of this site is the place to come for reasoned debate and information. Am I alone? I very much doubt that either. Expect the popularity of Wings to grow between now and next September.”

    Too true. My only concern regarding news and the MSM, BBC etc is this:
    Glasgow has a significantly lower percentage of individuals accessing the internet (57%), by any means, than all other cities and Great Britain as a whole.”
    Though I´m sure certain political aspirations will be determined this level of internet access remains as such until at least the 18th of September 2014.

  53. crisiscult says:

    Really good to read this and some of the comments. I was at a Yes meeting where Elaine Smith used Status Quo a couple of times and I really wanted to say to her and everyone – the status quo is NOT an option. Adding to Rev Stu’s list, changes in the UK such as 2 years to claim unfair dismissal, charges for going to an employment tribunal (still under challenge, but currently in effect in the tribunals), nearly a grand for a British Passport (how much will it be when you’ve done your 5 years, or more), and going down the speculation route on employment law and human rights, the possibility of a withdrawal from all EU employment rules, withdrawal from ECHR (not sure how that could work if EU accedes soon)… status quo really makes me feel so safe and secure and comfy in my bed at night. Change is scary.
    The problem, however, is the number of people, many well educated, that don’t even realise that really this is Hobson’s choice – the only choice is independence, unless  you want to vote on raw British nationalist emotion (considering the census, can that only be about 8% of people here at most?). The Yes campaign needs to take the gloves off and stop censoring the negatives of your future under Westminster. Maybe it is time for our own project fear, though ours would be closer to non-fiction than the existing BT PF.

  54. lumilumi says:

    Excellent article, Rev Stu!
    This is what the people of Scotland need to wake up to. Voting NO will not guarantee some cosy British status quo. It’s more likely to guarantee an ever downward spiral for increasingly large swathes of people if the events of the past couple of decades are anything to go by.
    Voting YES offers hope that things can be different – depending on who the people of Scotland vote into their independent Parliament!

  55. Im  having trouble  trying to  figure  out  Mr  Cochrans  gain  in  this  telling  lies  /  or  any  journalist,s  in  Scotland   they  depend  on  people  buying  news  papers   (  is  that  not  their  livelyhood   )   If  they  dont  listen  to  us  the  people  maybe  their  Advertisers  will  listen    (   e  mails  to  their  Advertisers  stoped  buying  that  publication  reasons  why  )  would  you  pay  full  costs  for  Adverts  with  redused    circulation we  have  many  solutions  to  deal  with  BBC   DONT   PAY  T  V  LICENCE  FEE   //   DONT   BUY   PAPERS  its   no  use  Complaining    When Your  COMPLIANT      I   dont   Pay  BBC  L / FEE  I  Dont  Buy  News Print  like  many  people  I  use  the  Internet  Indy  Sites   the  BBC  are   in  BREACH   of  a  Act  of  Westminster   Parliament   with  BIAS  reporting  Act  dont  Complain  on these   Indy  Sites

  56. msean says:

    Just watched that nuclear test video (memolition).Didn’t realise how many have been tested,they kept us in fear of communists for 50/60 years but ‘our’ side had most tests.

  57. SoS  For  the  rant  REV,  that  post   did nt  include  You  for  obvious  reasons   nor  any  one   else   that  challenge  Lies

  58. mealer says:


  59. Shaun Milne says:

    This is why I felt pretty infuriated by the Better Together rep at the Napier Ref Debate. He consistently referred to the notion that it is better to try to help the whole of the U.K and not just Scotland ( sneakily implying those of us voting YES were selfish for doing so). What he never addressed was the ACTUAL political make-up of the U.K, the influence Scotland doesn’t have, the multi-coloured Tories, austerity, Atos etc. We should suffer because someone in Birmingham suffers. He even went on to suggest that a NO vote is a vote for ‘Radical change’ despite there being a snowballs chance of any reversal of the devastation delivered to the worst off in society thanks to Labour and the Tories.

    BT and NO consistently paint a Britain that does not exist and then manipulate that vision to make the very idea of a YES vote seem selfish, pointless and parochial. 

    Also worth noting that the BT, when discussing Norway’s Oil fund in the 70’s, claimed complete ignorance of the McCrone report when I mentioned it. 

    Aye son, pull the other one.

  60. Jingly Jangly says:

    Ronnie I concur, I no longer pay licence fee or buy any newspapers apart from Sunday Herald and Scots Independent

  61. Muscleguy says:

    Dundee has long been a city of Haves as well as Have Nots. Here in the Ferry my neighbours still elect Tories to the council despite our best efforts (we always vote in local elections).
    I also think that the problems of the past stimulated a lot of ‘chancers’ to find a way out, at the cost of their consciences. I know people who have not been near here in 30years who still regard Dundee as dire industrial, eyesore, hell hole. Since we moved here in ’98 the place has got better and better. I love it.
    It is actually a good advertisement for Devolution and the benefits it can bring.

  62. Lindsey Smith says:

    North-East branch of Scottish Democratic Alliance will hold a Blether (informal meeting) on Wednesday 20 November 7-8.30pm at the Caledonian Thistle Hotel on Union Terrace, Aberdeen. Anyone interested in finding out what this new party offers is welcome to come along.

  63. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    I won’t hear a word against my mate Alan.
    He provides me with so much entertainment online and in the flesh.
    His sturdy band of sycophants/ followers do too.
    On here there is so much preaching to the converted – there it’s preaching to the unconvertable…
    Must go and slag off my good mate Heidie for the execrable English performance 🙂

  64. FFS ,   STV   6pm  News   4  min coverage  on  Portsmouth  Shibuilders  (   Unions  Demonstration  )  feckers could  nt  do  a  2  min  piece   on  YES  RALLY   Wheres  the  coverage  of  the  Govan  /  Scotstoun  Redundencies

  65. jingly jangly  ,  Ah  ken  pal  but  we  hiv  tae  keepp  spreadin  the  message

  66. msean says:

    looks like a Dundonian has his own show on rt now lol.

  67. Lumilumi,  that  is  the  most  used  wording  in  the  english   language  at  the  moment Status  Quo  when  Im  on  street  stall  duty   an  get  that as  a  reply  I  tell  them  I  like  the  Status  Quo  (  back  ward  step  )   I  olso like  Led  Zeplin  /  Rollin  Stanes  /  Beatles  /  Joe  Cocker   noo that  gits  a  reaction  when  ah tell  them  they  groups  wid  manage  the  finances  of this  country  better  than  Wastemonste

  68. Morag says:

    Great article.  One of the classics.  I hadn’t thought of that angle, that the union is effectively at an end at midnight on the 17th.  That the vote can be regarded as one between endorsing the union, or continuing on our own way.  I wonder if the Yes campaign or the Scottish government would frame it in those terms?
    Just been out delivering the last of the Yes newspapers.  I managed to sneak a Labour for Independence leaflet into a house I know to be occupied by a couple who are Labour members, he’s a No and she’s a Yes.
    I understand there will be new newspapers in January or thereabouts.  I just worry that round here and presumably round everywhere, people living out in the country will be perpetually left out.  We didn’t have enough papers for everyone anyway, but every time, it’s the low-hanging fruit that gets done.  I just did a village with about 43 houses, and I had 10 papers left.  There was  any number of groups of houses with maybe six together.  I did a mental toss-up and finished off on a group of 10 rather swanky new-builds.
    This is going to keep happening.  Live in a town, or an established village?  You’ll get lots of info.  Live in a hamlet, a group of six or ten houses?  Hard luck.

  69. Mustleguy,  Hiz  that  Balgayboy  showed  you  Clerkie  bakery  yet , or  bought  you  a  couple  o  butterys  lol

  70. The Man in the Jar says:

    I live in a “Village” ten miles from Glasgow City Centre just off the M74 and I have never seen a pamphlet never mind a newspaper. That goes for Yes and No.
    “Referendum what referendum?”

  71. Morag,  Mair  power  tae  yer  legs  (  cheapscate  )  wan  Lab indy  leaflet  whit  if  there  no  a  carein  sharein  kin  o  couple  But  your  rite  about  small  villages  getting  left  out  that  needs  to  be  addressed  Farmers  are a must  now  with  UK gov  withholding  E U grant  funding

  72. lumilumi says:

    @ ronnie 5.47
    I get your point, and I certainly wouldn’t pay the BBC licence fee in Scotland.
    However, I’m a bit saddened and even worried about what is happening to the media, and not just in Scotland, even though the situation in Scotland is far worse than it is here in Finland, for example.
    In my view a functioning democracy needs a free press to hold politicians and other powers that be to account. It doesn’t have to be print newspapers, it almost certainly won’t be a few years down the line because the digital revolution.
    What worries me is the concentration of mainstream media (print/broadcasting/online) in the hands of few vested interests and being totally commercialised. This leaves less and less room for different voices, and also a lot of dumbed down, sensationalist, shallow churnalism.
    There’s less and less room for proper, in-depth analysis and scrutiny and even intelligent satire in the media. It’s all about fluffy entertainment and short-attention-span “soundbite” news.
    I still see a role for licence-fee funded public broadcasting. I think Finland’s YLE is doing a pretty good job. They’re not perfect (and regularly get accused of being lefty-greeny by parties that are not :-D) but they do produce mostly impartial and well-balanced news/current affairs programmes. More importantly, YLE produces a lot of Finnish programmes. Drama, comedy, talk shows, hobbies (gardening, outdoor etc.), children’s programmes, regional programming. Of course YLE also shows foreign content from many countries, usually subtitled. (That’s why Finns are so good at reading!)
    None of the commercial channels can match YLE, most of them buy just buy American (and UK) shows and produce the minimum of Finnish programming they have to as per their operating licence conditions.
    So, even though the BBC in Scotland are so awful, I hope the baby won’t get thrown out with the bathwater and an independent Scotland will have a public broadcasting corporation – properly independent of the government but properly regulated, too.

  73. Frazer Allan Whyte says:

    Let’s let Mr Cameron know what strong support he has for instituting a  “small government” of say… of 5.5 million north of the border.
    However, the choice will not be between independence and “union status” but between independence and colonial status, between real democratic self-government or being a colonial shooting estate/raw material provider with varyingly quaint and colourful natives to be patronized and exploited “for their own good” by the all-knowing great white brothers of the south fawningly aided by their northern lackeys. In whatever form it may take trickle down economics has always been a euphemism for pissing on the poor.

  74. liz says:

    ‘Certain death of the union’ – is too right,
    London is to become the first city in the world with a domain name.
    It is positioning itself as the money (laundering) capital of the world.
    It is going to asset strip as much as it can before it declares itself a city state.

  75. jim mitchell says:

    I think that there is another sign of the NO lots nervousness and that is the number of time they just have to say, ‘in the unlikely event’, when referring to a YES vote.
    Then there are articles from them such as ‘We could still lose’. 

  76. jim mitchell says:

    Conan, yes some of us have noticed the way you cosy up to Mr Cochran, that’s how the rumors start you know. lol

  77. frankieboy says:

    Excellent Stu, ‘Wings over Scotland, reading unionist shite so you don’t have to’. Thanks

  78. Morag says:

    I live in a “Village” ten miles from Glasgow City Centre just off the M74 and I have never seen a pamphlet never mind a newspaper. That goes for Yes and No.
    How many volunteers do you have in your group?  We’re a lot better off than in an election situation because we have some Greens and some SSP people (the source of the LFI leaflets), plus some non-party-political people who just want independence.  (Then when we had a by-election suddenly it was back to a few people because all the non-SNP help naturally vanished!)

    Our guys can get a group to a large village or a small town and just blitz it in an hour or three.  It does mean the rural houses get missed though.  How big is your village?

  79. westie7 says:

    I predict tomorrows Scottish politics interviews will be on the subject of Booze! wonder how I came to that conclusion

  80. david says:

    Does anyone know if its true that every house in Scotland will recieve a copy of the white paper?

  81. Wingman 2020 says:

    I used to run an exercise in a training facility.  The exercise was to illustrate anarchy. 
    It was a game, where one of the five teams had the ‘cards’ stacked in their favour so they won the round. 
    The team that won the round were allowed to change the rules.  Of course they changed the rules entirely in their favour.  And won again. Ad infinitum.
    Of course what happened?  Sheer angry and frustration on the part of the others, to the point where they were ready to lynch the smug bastards who held onto the power.

    And this was only a game in a training room! It often got overly heated. 

    Labour and Conservative have been playing this game for years.  Except they have an advantage, called FPTP.  And just as the ball is getting too hot it gets passed to the other for a few terms.  So people never actually reach the stage where they blow! 

    The two parties blame each other alternately.  
    The electorate run back and forward shouting, but actually it makes not a jot of difference to the people in power.  They make election promises they don’t keep. They reward themselves handsomely with tax payers money and they maintain the whole British Establishment and power gravy train. 
    And has anyone actually noticed how incompetently the UK is run? 

    Social inequality, justice, problems
    I could keep going and going without finding positive… unless you live in London of course.
    What a complete Broken Britain.  Broken by every political party and politician since Thatcher. 

  82. The Man in the Jar says:

    What group?
    No Yes group near me! Dont know about UKOK lot.

  83. Thepnr says:

    The DT is ramping up the rhetoric. Here’s another piece tonight.

  84. Morag says:

    If you’re that near Glasgow, there has to be one!  Ten miles?  I drive 14 miles to our Yes Tweeddale meetings, and twice that to Yes Borders.  Check Facebook.  They may be desperate for an activist in your village.

  85. Thepnr says:

    These journalists really are stirring up hatred between Scots and the English prior to the referendum. The posts on that DT article after only 30 minutes are just vile.

  86. Wingman 2020 says:

    “Too true. My only concern regarding news and the MSM, BBC etc is this:
    Glasgow has a significantly lower percentage of individualsaccessing the internet (57%), by any means, than all other cities and Great Britain as a whole.”
    Time for a Wings Poster Billboard campaign in Glasgow?  
    Even just giant wings with the web address…  But better a list of Labour misdemeanours. 

  87. The Man in the Jar says:

    Sorry I posted my last without reading all of your post.
    I stay in Bothwell (an affluent satellite village) as I am informed. There is no Yes group near me. The nearest is “Yes Uddingston and Bellshill” the trouble is that it is not really Uddingston it is what we children of the caramel wafer have always referred to as “up the hill” they have Uddingston in their postal address but are not even in the same county. The M74 being the boundary between North and South Lanarkshire. (I am in S. Lanarkshire 🙂 .)
    I only know of one other pro indi person in the “village” I can get all excited by the sight of a Yes sticker on a car. Sad git!

  88. Alex Taylor says:

    and foodbanks in every town and city, to pick just a handful of examples?
    I filled up a trolley for the Trussel Trust who were manning the front door of my local supermarket today. I complemented them on their kindness in giving their time and energy to help people in such a parlous state.
    When I asked them what they planned to do next year to change the state of a nation which is so wealthy yet needed such charity, they looked at me blankly. They are decent people but don’t equate the problems with the governance of our country.
    I gave them a couple of Aye Right cards and left. A bit downcast.

  89. heraldnomore says:

    Just the sort of thing our friends at The Fear Factor could include in next year’s movie; but I see they’re still a few bob short and time’s running out.
    Go on, you know you want to…….

  90. Paula Rose says:

    @ wingman 2020 – aye!

  91. Morag says:

    TMITJ, I come from fairly near there and I’d never have called Bothwell a village!
    Well it’s up to you but the only way to get the Yes campaign extended into your patch is to go to the nearest Yes group and ask for help.  It seems daunting if you think you’re the only person in a town that size, so what can you do.  But when you hitch up with others everything becomes possible.
    It will cheer you up no end, too.  Encourage the Yes people to include Bothwell, then you’ll find some more people, and it will all happen.  We only have ten months now, so I think everyone who wants independence has to find something to do and then do it.
    I’ve got a neighbour who can’t do much at all after a bad fall.  Or so he thought.  He has manned a card table with Yes literature in the village centre while the leafleting crew ran round the doors, he has folded Yes newspapers so that they can just be popped into letterboxes (they come in a big bale with only one fold), and later on I imagine he’ll be stuffing literature into envelopes and sticking address labels on them.
    There’s always something needing done, if people volunteer.  I wouldn’t worry about boundaries either, not for this campaign.  We have people coming in from Midlothian just because it’s more convenient for them.

  92. Morag says:

    These journalists really are stirring up hatred between Scots and the English prior to the referendum. The posts on that DT article after only 30 minutes are just vile.
    I went over for a look and I really couldn’t believe my eyes.  The sooner we’re out of this the better.

  93. Wingman 2020 says:

    Whats your email address?

  94. Stuart Black says:

    When I asked them what they planned to do next year to change the state of a nation which is so wealthy yet needed such charity, they looked at me blankly. They are decent people but don’t equate the problems with the governance of our country.
    Well done and thanks for doing that Alex, my wife and I deliver to Glasgow North West food bank, but it has never occurred to me to ask where the volunteers stand on the independence question, to be honest I just want to get back out and seethe at the fact that we have food banks at all. Might ask at my next visit though. and yes, they are decent people, but I just wish they would waken up.

  95. limlilmi, I agree  with you on several points  I dont  mean  press  BBC  in the long term   they  have a  duty  to have  report  as  is  said  no  what  they  think  there  has been  for  a  log  time  a  dumbing  down  in  T V  proggrames  thats a insult  to the general  populice  reality  T V  celbrities  hasbeens  this  is  my  life  out  kids watch  that pish  there should  be  a  limit  to  the  amount  of  mind  numbing  proggrames  on TV  shedules  more  factual  informative  noo  your  gonna  git  me  shot  doon  in flames  lol  ah  did na  mentionPeter  Andrae  ffs  tipicil  example  exploiting  his  wains  tae  keep  him  in  the  limelite  ah  fekit  am  switchin  own the  wireless  Marcony  wiz  he  fae  Glesga

  96. Wingman 2020 says:

    Does anyone want a set of black wings for Gravatar? I have skinny wings, fat wings, hairy wings, happy wings, angel wings … in fact many different kinds of wings graphics LOL 
    Anyone want to participate in a viral wings infection of the Internet, starting with your Avatar on here? 

  97. Stuart Black says:

    O/T but I have just watched the ‘Prince of Wales’ on BBC World, joining in with the hokey-cokey in Sri Lanka, wearing a white linen suit and a garland of flowers, why are we even contemplating the prospect of a King Charles?
    Jesus… 🙁

  98. crisiscult says:

    any interest in, and value in, doing a collaborative document that can eventually get printed and leafleted, or perhaps just a web page with the title, ‘Your certainty in the Union’ with categories of questions and answers, kind of ‘what will happen…’ imagining it’s 2003.
    We could have Jobs section ‘What will happen if I’m unfairly dismissed at work?’2003 – you have the protection of….     2013 you no longer have this protection. 
    Pensions: At what age can I retire? etc
    I’m just thinking of ways of getting the message out about how shoogly the peg holding our coats is within the Union.

  99. Wingman 2020 says:

    Nothing wrong with a bit of cokey pokey for our future Monarch…  he could do with both. 

  100. Stuart Black says:

    He can indulge in whatever he wants for all I care, it’s the ‘future monarch’ bit I have a problem with.

  101. Seanair says:

    Iain, thanks for the info. Just wondered when they became joined at the hip. Must have been at so-called “journalist college”!

  102. @ScotsVote says:

    Bravo, bravo indeed! What WE really need is the level playing field the Referendum Bill will provide, overseen by the Electoral Commission, and all these things can be voiced and put in front of Pro Union advocates for them to deny and lie and twist their version of reality. Our only hope is that the people will see them for what they are and vote YES in an avalanche of Pro Independence support.

  103. Thepner  ,  Anither  piece  of  heid  up  the  erse  journalism  He wiz  wie th Scotsman  /  noo Telegraph  /  next  stop  Metro  aye  that  boy  gits aboot  lol

  104. @ScotsVote says:

    Just read: Journalists really are stirring up hatred between Scots and the English prior to the referendum. The posts on that DT article after only 30 minutes are just vile.
    Imagine after NO vote; by the time both Labour & Tory have finished winding up for the 2015 election they will both have advocated for removal of the Scottish Parliament to prevent disorder and promote “the Union Scots voted for”. You can see them now already spinning up the PR drives!

  105. Stevie says:

    I have been of the opinion for the longest time now that Cockring writes his ‘articles’ whilst in a state of angry inebriation – naught much else can explain the beligerant angry psychobabble that originates from the mind (such as it is) of this full moon bite victim.

  106. Stuart  Black,   I  e maild  awe the  bookies  when  the  baby  wiz  bornn  £100  fur charlie  no tae  git  the  throne  nay  chance  none  of  themm  would  take  ma  bet  am  no a  bettin man  deos  that  tell  you  somethin  I  did tae  me  again  nay  chance  lol

  107. lumilumi says:

    @ ronnie 8.03
    Marconi was actually Italian. I remember becoming interested in early radio in my early teens (can’t remember why) and found a slim volume in the public library about him. He did a lot of work in Cornwall and Ireland, though, when he was developing transatlantic wireless transmission.
    I liked your earlier  bit about liking Status Quo… and Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, the Beatles… and they’d all manage the finances better than Westminster! 😀
    What is it about BritNats/U-KOKs/whatever? As if you couldn’t like certain bands or tv programmes or whatever unless you are British and part of the “most successful union in the world”??
    Plenty of Finns, myself included, like many, many British bands, tv programmes etc. Are we not allowed to??

  108. Stuart Black says:

    I hope you’re right Ronnie, and keep posting son, I like your style!

  109. Edward says:

    I read with fascination about those in rural communities or villages that have not seen any YES campaign groups I their area
    Let me be blunt , If none exist, there is NOTHING to stop you from doing it yourself!
    DONT wait for someone else to do it DO IT YOURSELF!
    This campaign is like none other, if you can access the internet, you can produce your own leaflets. you have it your power to make it ‘viral’ Its about helping ourselves
    So if your in a village, farm, but and ben, what ever, have your own ‘Rural FOR YES’ !

  110. Wingman,  Apethy  destroys  the soul  your rite,  the  pass  the population  games  gittin  stopped  fur  good  then  the  rUK  people  might  wake  up  we re  well versed  in inequality  so  we hiv a advantage

  111. Paula Rose says:

    I moved to Scotland as it was obviously not in thrall to Thatcher and her ilk – now come on, the Scots are not stupid, they are not going to vote to continue this ridiculous farce of a political union.

  112. Stuart  Black  well am  ah  no  gled  you  canna  see  ma  style  the  noo /  shorts  /  slippers  /  jersey  let  e  know  when  yer  comin tae  visit  I  ll  pit    tie  own  lol

  113. Stuart Black says:

    @lumilumi: What is it about BritNats/U-KOKs/whatever? As if you couldn’t like certain bands or tv programmes or whatever unless you are British and part of the “most successful union in the world”??
    Indeed. It really really baffles me, this. I ran into a post on CiF a while ago from a Labour activist based in Embra that illustrates this extremely odd attitude, my response is copied below (her words quoted in italics).

    “And I want bands like The Smiths, Clash, Joy Division, Oasis, Gorillaz, Massive Attack to remain part of ‘my’ culture; I want Jane Austen, Charles Dickens, Will Self to be part of my culture; I want all the James Bond movies to be part of my culture (I think we’ve had all nations + Australia presented as Bond)!”

    So, the day that the Scots vote for their country to be run from Edinburgh rather than Westminster, what happens to these bands, these novels, these movies? Do they dissolve into the ether; will ‘Hard Times’ be replaced by ‘Wee McGreegor’, ‘London Calling’ overdubbed by ‘Donald, whaur’s yer troosers’, ‘Dr. No’ morph into ‘Dr Finlay’? Aw, have the nasty SNP taken yer kulchur aff ye, hen? Worse, you’re no allowed to see yer pals, sorry, comrades, (I used to talk like that when I was in the Labour party) any more, as the barbed wire and armed guards become emplaced along the border that you won’t be able to cross after we take control of our own affairs. Ah ken, getting from Belfast to Dublin is an absolute nightmare these days, innit?

    You don’t half see some shite on these threads. And you managed to get the weasel word seperation in too, well done. Digging a trench and towing the northern section even further north now, are we?

    You know something? I love British culture. But I fucking hate Tories, and that is all we’ll get from Westminster, regardless of which party is in power. And I think you know that too…

  114. Stuart Black says:

    She didn’t much like it… 😉

  115. Stuart Black says:

    In fact she accused me of being a Tory, which just shows how much close reading they do, given that I said I was an ex-member of the Labour party, lol.

  116. Stuart Black says:

    Got a string vest on, Ronnie? 😀

  117. Edward,  strait  tae  the  point  nae  messin , ah like it, sittin own yer erse disna get the job done , am a keyboard worrior  fur  the  best  part  but  I still manage  tae git  tae ma Yes  group  an  street stall wait tae am better an fekin sethin the insults  of  the Scottish  people

  118. Tamson says:

    I’m sure I can recall a Scotsman story where Michael Moore had “demanded” the SNP reveal tax details post-independence.
    What was so laughable about it, was that he made the demand a few days before the Budget. Therefore, as a member of the Cabinet, he couldn’t even tell us the UK‘s tax plans for the following week!

  119. Stuart Black , nows the answer nae drawers  on ether, in am no fae Govan ether  bit  a  hud  a  nice  chat  te  Mary  Doll  the ither  month  dressed  of  corse lol.:

  120. Stuart Black says:

    “nae drawers  on ether”
    Too much information, Ronnie. 🙂

  121. Stuart Black , you  need  tae stop talkin tae srange  wummin  lol  lick  wan  wie  a  mop  in her  hawn  their  real  people  lol

  122. Stuart Black says:

    Ronnie, problem, I only know strange women. 😉

  123. john king says:

    Spent and evening on facebook (which I despise) and found an acquaintance who thought the status quo (whatever that is) was to his liking ,and over the next several hours I dismantled his (very arrogant ) argument to the point where his penultimate post was “give it a rest” followed (without any prompting from me) with “yawn” 
    I am proud of myself as I adhered to the unspoken rule of keep it respectful and pleasant , and still managed to dismantle his argument effortlessly,
    I almost felt sorry for him (almost) 
    I RULE 🙂

  124. lumilumi says:

    @ Stuart Black, 8.44
    Indeed, this cultural… I don’t know what to call it. It sounds like a three-year-old saying you can’t play with my toys! (Or worse still, Scottish cringers saying “we won’t be allowed to play with bully brother’s toys”)
    Meanwhile, in the real world… Every independent country wants their culture, be it music, tv, literature, films, art, whatever, to reach as large audiences as possible. Often there’s a financial incentive, sometimes it’s down to pride in their own culture, wanting to share with other peoples and cultures. Nobody would restric access to and appreciation of their culture, surely?
    Finland is a small independent country in the northern periphery of Europe, with a really strange language, and I freely admit our culture is not well known in the wider world. Some people might’ve heard of Sibelius and… er… Oh! Angry Birds is Finnish culture, isn’t it? 🙂
    A Finnish folk tune apparently holds the world record for radio play because it was used as a secret military “weapon”. Säkkijärven polkka was played continuously for 5 months on the airwaves to find/defuse radio-controlled Soviet mines in and around Viipuri.

    Spare a thought to those brave Finnish soldiers and radio engineers, this is what they had to listen to for five months!

  125. Mary Bruce says:

    This “Status Quo” discussion interests me, it is something I have thought about a lot.

    The things I always valued by being part of the union are things like our welfare state, NHS, state funded education, decent pensions and (at the time) other nationalised essential services. Having lived abroad for a few years in countries where people didn’t have such things I was always proud and grateful that our nation cared for its people by providing these services. 

    Quite simply, I want to keep these things, I want to live in a caring society that protects the old, weak and vulnerable and offers educational opportunity for all. It is for these reasons that I will be voting to leave the union. My vision of an independent Scotland will be a future that retains the things I value from the present. It is staying in the union that will jeopardise them.

    So, for me a vote for the status quo is a vote for yes, not no.

  126. Stuart Black says:

    Love Sibelius, by the way!

  127. Old mikey says:

    One of the best, if not ‘the’ best article of the year.
    Any naysayers reading this and the comments will be ‘trembling in their troosers’.

  128. Lilimlilmi,   ah  wiz  sayin a  Marcony wireless  nae referance tae his nationality , ah didna  want tae say tranny  bit noo you ve forced  iit oot o me  Its aw  his  fault  so hiv a go at Ilumilime  lol

  129. StuartBlack,  Johann  ,  Jackie  perchance  lol

  130. lumilumi says:

    @ ronnie 10.07
    No worries lol 😀
    I only picked up on the Marconi bit because, with hindsight, it’s really strange that a Finnish 13-yr-old schoolgirl would become interested in such a subject (early development of radio).
    BTW, I really enjoy your posts, Ronnie. You’re always on the ball, witty and passionate, yet good-humoured and kind. And most of your spelling makes sense to me because Finnish is written the way it’s pronounced. 😀

  131. Lumilumi,  thanks  ma  spelling mistakes  are  a  result  of my brain condition  Im not like that as normal  as a secretary of a community  council  ( af  sick  )  I have  to have my full  facalties

  132. Do you think ah could learn finnish the wi am ur the noo  lol  ffs  am  bi linqual

  133. Papadocx says:

    @thepnr 7:32
    agree totally, was getting very angry so had to abandon trying to read this nasty stuff.
    be careful what you ask for, because you might just get it. 

  134. jahoca says:

    Good work, Rev as ever.

  135. Spansco says:

    Another wonderful article. if only all Scots would read what Wings has to say it would change a lot of minds. Unfortunately too many Scots are like lifers in jail. They have no hope of escape, and are so institutionalised that they see nothing wrong in asking their warden to do anything. People without hope have no ambition, people without ambition have nothing to look forward to and are stuck in their ways. They are so used to being walked all over and told to take their medicine and shut up. A country with a population like that, who don’t want to be in control of its own affairs should make nobody proud. I will be ashamed if a No vote is returned.

  136. A2 says:

    “I live in a “Village” ten miles from Glasgow City Centre just off the M74 and I have never seen a pamphlet never mind a newspaper. That goes for Yes and No.”
    I live smack in the middle of glasgows west end and I’ve not seen one either!

  137. A2 says:

    “The team that won the round were allowed to change the rules.”
    How does the game illustrate Anarchy?

  138. call me dave says:

    Mary Bruce
    NHS and Education have never been under the one roof. Scotland has always been responsible for that in Scotland. Look South and you will see privatisation of Health and fees for Uni Education.

    As for pensions the UK has never ever provided pensions comparable to our European cousins across the North Sea.

    A vote for the status quo is a very risky strategy as all the ‘better together’ parties have gone on record that Scotland will have to face more cuts and reduced powers, even the removal of Holyrood by some.

    The only way is YES. Mary we can afford it ! What we can’t afford is a NO vote.

  139. A2 says:

    Glasgow has a significantly lower percentage of individualsaccessing the internet (57%), by any means, than all other cities and Great Britain as a whole.”
    Time for a Wings Poster Billboard campaign in Glasgow?  
    Even just giant wings with the web address…
    sorry can you explain that for me, how do you reach people without internet access by letting them know about a web address?

  140. Wingman 2020 says:

    What do you think? Wear a pedants tin foil hat? 
    My suggestion was wider ranging than the internet access problem. Doh. 

  141. Wingman 2020 says:

    @ A2 It was obviously a type of troll anarchy?

  142. A2 says:


    intrigued by this , don’t know the area that well but did work in Bothwell/Blantyre /Uddingston for a short period of time. I had to check the map to see the middles of Bothwell and Uddingston are less than a mile apart surely there’s some scope for chumming up? I’m sure there’s some activists in nearby Hamilton that could give you support as well?

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