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That Went Well Department

Posted on June 05, 2018 by

November 2009: “at the end of the day the banks will be paying money to the British people and not the other way round”.

Shall we take a look through the arched-eyebrows window, readers?

In fact it was claimed at the time that the profits realised for the taxpayer when the bank was reprivatised could be as much as £27bn. And to be fair, that number was remarkably close to the reality. Just in the wrong direction.

June 2018: “That loss is expected to grow to around £26.2 billion as the Government hopes to have sold off around two-thirds of its stake by 2023”.

Don’t worry, though – we’ll probably get another shot at it soon.

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  1. 05 06 18 22:56

    That Went Well Department | speymouth

206 to “That Went Well Department”

  1. bobajock says:

    The Tories are, again, lining their mates pockets. Mark my words, the share price will rise as more is sold off, and some gammon Tory leech will get the benefit.

    Think of the ‘post office’ or any other sell-off, this is just the same.

  2. David R says:

    Can’t believe that a man that can tell anyone that’ll listen what the economy of an independent Scotland would be 50 odd years into the future could have got it so wrong.

  3. Tara says:

    Well that explains why everyone is skint with austerity kicking in hard obviously excepts certain Tories party members who bought shares in poverty serving companies years ago.

  4. Ian McCubbin says:

    They akso allowed closer of over 100 branches and tbe jobs lost and then outshopped to call centres in India where the staff earn £1.27 an hour.
    Wow and Tories are looking after jobs in UK?
    No, they are looking after their own interests and gaining huge profits for themselves.

  5. Ian McCubbin says:

    Oops akso should read also.

  6. Dr Jim says:

    Yaay! we’re making money by selling things for less than we paid for them again
    Although I always love the UK patter when they support their own stupidity in these matters, they have slogans they use like *The country* or *It’s the right time* or *This will pave the way*

    The UK would never make it on a show like *Bargain hunt* they’d end up the biggest losers with minus

    See when they say *the country* they don’t mean them, they mean us

  7. Gfaetheblock says:

    Ian McCubbin

    Not aware of RBS having any call centres in India. What services have you used these for, I have only dealt with UK based staff?

  8. Marcia says:

    Soon in many places all over Scotland, small businesses will find it a nightmare trying to bank their takings as the local banks are closed. Some of monies they could have saved by not selling off the shares might have been used to keep the local branches open or developed a deposit system for rural business. We need a rural banking system like that they have in France.

  9. Sinky says:

    It was the UK regulatory authorities headed by Chancellor of Exchequer Alistair Darling that had the powers to investigate the RBS / AMRO take over but ignored fact that no due diligence was done by RBS on a deal worth £49 billion before they gave its approval for the world’s biggest bank take over deal that brought about the collapse of the Royal Bank.

    Incredibly, the FSA overlooked the rules on capital by allowing Goodwin and RBS to dip below 4%, below the minimum regulatory requirement on capital, to do the ABN Amro deal.
    So much for relying on the UK regulatory body.

    At the time Fred Goodwin was an adviser to Alistair Darling as Chancellor, and was still a member of a key Treasury body advising Labour months after the banking crisis and quitting RBS.

    Darling learnt no lessons from the collapse of Northern Rock in September 2007, and his March 2008 Budget speech just six months after the first UK bank collapse makes embarrassing reading today: “…we have maintained confidence and stability in the banking system … We have turned welfare into work and borrowing into wealth creation.”

    In a BBC Today Programme Lecture on 2nd May 2012, the Governor of the Bank of England, Sir Mervyn King criticised the lack of action by the last Labour government in the earliest days of the banking crisis when Northern Rock became the first UK bank to fail. Decisive action would have at least mitigated the problems encountered by other banks including Barclays, HBOS and RBS a year later.

  10. dakk says:

    ‘Shall we take a look through the arched window, readers?’

    Take me back to the days of innocence before I knew of the treachery of the britnat Scots and the human filth like Listair Darling who govern little Britin.

    Would imagine that even BBC Playschool’s Brian Cant couldn’t wouldn’t or shouldn’t do it any different.

    BritNats wha’s like them?

  11. louis.b.argyll says:

    Capitalism is diabolical theft.

    Democracy is nowhere to be seen.

  12. Derek says:

    There was a joke doing the rounds at the time; “What’s the difference between Alastair Darling, Fred Goodwin and Terry Wogan?” (or something like that)

    “Terry Wogan has a banking qualification” was the answer.

  13. Street Andrew says:

    Marcia says:

    Soon in many places all over Scotland, small businesses will find it a nightmare trying to bank their takings as the local banks are closed.

    If we don’t get away from this damn stupid and incompetent WM government it won’t be a problem for long – there won’t be any takings to bank.

  14. Gary45% says:

    This has been the agenda from the banking system for decades.
    They have been allowed to rob the population blind and if you complain you are regarded as a troublemaker. The city bankers in corrupt London never got correctly punished (they still had lavish bonus parties when the innocent were getting fucked over) unlike Iceland where they jailed the fuckers.
    I still use cheque books and never online bank, the more people who rebel against big corporate the better, because once the local branches completely disappear all we will have is internet run / false electronic money, which can easily be charged out to the customer at whatever rate the banks choose.
    Its time the population woke up.

  15. Clootie says:

    …funny how many companies can close without any government intervention…but not banks.
    When bankers gamble they have you to cover any loss. When it results in profit it is bonus time!!!

    Someone will make a great deal of money from this and it will not be the taxpayer.

  16. Smallaxe says:

    RBS closures;
    Which branches are set to close?
    This is the list of confirmed closures so far released by the bank;

    Aberdeen, Bridge of Don – May 17, 2018
    Aberfeldy – June 7, 2018
    Airdrie – May 24, 2018
    Alloa – June 18, 2018
    Annan – June 25, 2018
    Aviemore – May 31, 2018
    Banff – May 23, 2018
    Bannockburn – June 25, 2018
    Bellshill – June 11, 2018
    Bonnyrigg – May 24, 2018
    Bridge of Allan – June 21, 2018
    Campbeltown – May 29, 2018
    Carnwath – May 7, 2018
    Dunbar – May 30, 2018
    Dunblane – June 28, 2018
    Dundee Stobswell – June 20, 2018
    Duns – June 5, 2018
    Dyce – May 31, 2018
    Ellon – June 7, 2018
    Eyemouth – June 11, 2018
    Glasgow Business Centre – June 20, 2018
    Grantown-on-Spey – June 11, 2018
    Hamilton Cadzow Street – June 28, 2018
    Hawick – June 14, 2018
    Huntly – June 14, 2018
    Inverness Queensgate – June 27, 2018
    Jedburgh – June 18, 2018
    Kilbirnie – June 5, 2018
    Kilwinning – June 11, 2018
    Kinross – May 21, 2018
    Langholm – May 30, 2018
    Larkhall – June 21, 2018
    Lesmahagow – June 18, 2018
    Linlithgow – June 27, 2018
    Lockerbie – June 21, 2018
    Mallaig – May 17, 2018
    Montrose – June 6, 2018
    Nairn – June 21, 2018
    North Berwick – June 25, 2018
    Penicuik – June 28, 2018
    Perth South Street – June 27, 2018
    Pitlochry – May 31, 2018
    Renfrew – June 14, 2018
    Rothesay – June 26, 2018
    Saltcoats – June 20, 2018
    Selkirk – May 21, 2018
    Stepps – June 20, 2018
    Strathaven – June 25, 2018
    Tain – June 20, 2018
    Tannochside – June 14, 2018
    Turriff – June 26, 2018
    Wick – May 17, 2018
    Pick a windae!

  17. Rock says:

    Always protect the Establishment and elite at the expense of the “sovereign” “plebs”.

    The system is rotten to the core, has always been and will always be.

    When is Nicola calling an independence referendum?

  18. cirsium says:

    @Sinky, 10.27am

    and who designed the UK regulatory framework? Step up , Mr Darling. He wrote in his Back from the Brink: 1000 days at Number 11 (2011)

    “The responsibility for the architecture was largely mine.  When we were in opposition in the early 1990s, Gordon had asked me to take responsibility for the City.  I realised quickly that getting the right supervision and regulatory regime was essential and set about planning for the change in regulatory control which we implemented once we were in power”

    This seems to me to be an example of the Dunning Kruger effect which is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes.

  19. Theproctorlewis says:

    My investigators have found that although the RBS are correct that the actual number of banks closed is roughly corespondent with the switch to on line banking. That is only correct if you factor in the years of investment, undertook by senior RBS to outsource the jobs to Indian companies, that actually may be considered shell companies of RBS subsidies.

    But Stuart I told you RBS were flying senior contact staff to India.

    Not a surprise really.

    Glad you are still ok Small Axe, keep it sharp!

  20. Mike says:

    Its Tory party dogma to deliberately transfer public funding over to private entrepreneurs. It is in fact high treason and grand larceny all rolled up into one but because they are labeled as Government it isn’t a crime. Despots have been executed for doing exactly the same thing all over the world. Ghaddafi Hussain Ceau?escu to name just 3 ferreted public funding into private accounts. Its no different to what the Tories are doing
    And they call it Democracy.
    about time folk woke up and smelled the reality.

  21. Thepnr says:

    Banking is moving away from the local branch and to online. Branches therefore are less busy and lets face it every bank in the UK is doing all it can to save money.

    By the way this is called progress but I’m aware of the downsides to local people in all the towns and villages that will lose their banks.

    There is a solution for an Independent Scotland and that is to renationalise the Post Office and open up all the post offices that have closed over the years. Make them the bank for local businesses to deposit their takings. Have them backed by the new Scottish Investment Bank and the larger ones in the cities could even provide personal and business loans.

    Until we stop using cash totally we need a place to deposit and collect, a local Post Office is ideal. Let’s get our Independence first and make this a priority as it would be simple. We can and will take care of our own.


  22. Arbroath1320 says:

    This disaster that is the closure of RBS branches is starting to hit businesses.

    I saw a picture on twitter today that was in a shop that basically said they could no longer accept any cash because the would need to make a trip of over 2 hours to get to their nearest branch!

    I have made a suggestion a few times on twitter that I think the Scottish government should look at seriously.

    The Scottish government should buy ALL the RBS branches earmarked for closure for £1 thereby keeping local branches open, retaining employment and allowing local businesses to continue to use local banks. RBS should maintain, upgrade etc all the computers/networks etc for 10 years at NO cost to Scottish government. Surely even the greed driven RBS can see this as a win/win situation for them.

    I know there is at least one almighty fly in the ointment which would require incessant pushing by the Scottish government but I’m sure with enough pushing the Tories in London might just agree to … devolve banking controls to Scotland.

    I realistically know the Tories will refuse to devolve the necessary banking controls to Scotland but by doing this it gives us yet another hammer to smash the Tories with come the next indy ref.

  23. r. esquierdo says:

    The majority must be brain dead to say we are better together

  24. Chick McGregor says:


    But how are we going to be sold PPI without that ‘I’m on your side’ smile and the reassuring voice tone of a real person the other side of the desk?

  25. Dr Jim says:

    Today on the BBC politics show Nadine Dorries slipped up and admitted the Tories were already planning open direct rule in Northern Ireland as they’re already basically doing it anyway (because they’re not going to solve the border issue and they know it)

    I believe the plan is the same for Scotland and I believe the SNP knows it

    I also believe Arlene Fosters visit to Scotland is not just for the OO march but a fishing trip to garner support for her moving to Scotland post direct rule in NI in a bid to stand for Holyrood on an out and out sectarian ticket

    Sound crazy? If I had any money I might put a bet on

    The Tories are vile creatures and you can’t underestimate just how vile they’re prepared to be to regain their empire

  26. Arbroath1320 says:

    I’m not gonna post the links but Broon the Loon has been let loose and is being quoted in the Britnat media again!

    WHEN will we permanently get rid of this utterly useless ignorant incompetent TWAT?

  27. Hamish100 says:

    Some rbs branches kept changing there lunchtime opening hours,inservice training days to put customer’s off. Smiled in a branch this week when a rbs staffer went along a queue asking folk to use an online app on phone.One worthy suggested in forceful terms that she would be better serving the customers. Even some of the rbs staff serving smiled as their colleague retreated to the till.

  28. Andrew Morton says:

    As a long time RBS shareholder I can assure you the share price is going nowhere so at one point abou 6 years ago it was nearly double what it is now. Nobody is going to make a killing out of this.

  29. Josef Ó Luain says:

    Even in my most optimistic moments, I hold no great hopes of ever seeing the future reformation of the international banking system, whether in an independent Scotland or anywhere else.

    Forget about nuclear weapons, incurable pandemics and natural disasters, this particular monster, without the political will to stop it, is destined to collapse under the weight of its own absurdities and crush us all. Brown and Darling FFS, do me a favour.

  30. Ghillie says:

    Somebody somewhere is benefiting from this hugely and it is not the tax payer.

    Roll on Independence and our chance to set up our own National Bank.

  31. Robert J. Suthjerland says:

    Thepnr @ 00:00,

    Using Post Offices brought back into the public domain is exactly what is also needed in the short-to-medium term for retail and SME banking.

    As for the longer-term, who knows..?

    As you say, first things first.

  32. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 00:00,

    Using Post Offices brought back into the public domain is exactly what is also needed in the short-to-medium term for retail and SME banking.

    As for the longer-term, who knows..?

    As you say, first things first.

  33. Al Dossary says:

    5% drop in the share price yesterday for RBS. Just makes you wonder what these duplicitous bastards have up their sleeve – or even if the money people are interested in buying.

    C’Mon Nicola, get the Scottish bank up and Running – you have my cash the minute it happens.

  34. Graeme McAllan says:

    Dakk, think he would struggle with the intellectual capacity of Bungle or Zippy, from Rainbow 😉

  35. Effijy says:

    Why didn’t the UK media report who it was that bought the RBS shares?

    Did they offer the cut price shares to the public, the people who bailed out the banks?

    Did it go to a tender situation among Hedge Fund organisations to ensure the best competitive price?

    Did it go straight to a Tory funding OxBrige member of the old boys network? (My bet here)

    Why when the bank went burst didn’t the tax payer own the entire bank, not just a percentage?
    People who had spare money to invest took a gamble and many years of dividends so when their gamble lost, they had no right to claim a stake in the restructured company!

    Again we can only conclude that the Westminster based parties only operate to fake money for the rich who in turn support them on the gravy train.

    I get so frustrated at people who just won’t see how the gap between the rich and the average worker continues to grow year after year.
    We have now seen that gap grow for 55 consecutive years.

    Red or Blue Tories swapping control for over that period but with the same result regardless.

    Please God let SNP break this vile and vicious cycle and free us from this blatant corruption.

  36. Capella says:

    The pump don’t work cos the vandals took the handle. ( B Dylan – I Aint Gonna Work on Maggie’s Farm No More – could be our theme tune)

    They’ve already closed the Post Offices. Remember when the Tories sold off the Trustee Savings Banks because nobody owned them? Every public asset is turned into private profit sooner or later, by the Tories in Westminster, red or blue, which English voters elect. This is the type of bomb they vote for.

    BTW, the BBC has conducted a poll on Scottishness. It’s a wee bit funny = peculiar in that some of the results seem to be missing. Or that might be my tablet reformatting. So we don’t feel very British and don’t think Westminster government represents us. The answer is self evident!

    Ten things we learned about Scottishness –

  37. gus1940 says:

    I have never seen an explanation of, how at the time of privatisation, TSB account holders did not receive free shares as was the case when the building societies were privatised.

    Is it not the case that both TSB and the societies were mutual organisation owned by their account holders – so why no free shares for TSB account holders?

  38. Nana says:

    I think Scottish Tory MP John Lamont just had a minor breakdown realising how the argument “business is good at adapting, good at dealing with challenges” just blew a hole right through his anti-independence position. Ross Thomson filling out his expenses forms.
    Video here

    Britain clears Rupert Murdoch’s bid for Sky if it sells Sky News

    Government loses more than £2bn of taxpayers’ money selling off RBS shares despite warnings

    Labour sheesh!

  39. Bill says:


    Just saw Oliver Mundell Tweet calling Stu a liar.

  40. sinky says:

    Good article by Iain MacWhirter in Herald on devolving immigration but a bit soft on Tories when he says it is unlikely Tory MSP shouted Send him home. Also says woe betide any Tory Councillor would makes rascist jokes implying Ruth Davidson would deal with them. The facts don’t bear this out.

  41. Terry says:

    Nice plug there on GMS for Wings just now – from Oliver Mundell.

    Hello new readers. Welcome. And enjoy the enlightening experience.

  42. admiral says:

    Capella says:
    6 June, 2018 at 6:27 am

    Ten things we learned about Scottishness –

    With the usual caveat about the BBC’s “interpretation” of statistical data, it is interesting to note how much the yoons, especially the blue variety, prefer to live in and dwell on the past, whereas independenistas look very much towards a positive future for Scotland.

  43. Les Wilson says:

    Thepnr @ 00:00,

    I think the reopening of post offices by the SG would be a great thing, pretty much as you described. Good thinking that, and I would like to think that someone with power would seriously consider the idea.
    Nationalise them so we get no more buggering around especially for rural folks, but would hope it would not stop there. Ultimately bring them in to a Scottish financial system after Indy.

    The whole banking system rot started around 15/20 years ago, a time when bank managers had relationships with their customers and there was some trust. However, they started to get rid of the existing bank managers and employ inferior staff who were not so wise or knowledgeable. Hardly any trust now.

    What we are currently seeing is the end of cash, when all our money will be digital, this suits the bankers in many ways, but gives them complete control of your digital money. This can then be easily manipulated and that is what they are aiming for.

    It will soon be the only way to pay for anything, imagine also how the can track anything you pay for. When the next financial meltdown comes, and it is on the way.
    They can take what the want from your account and ATM’s go dark, whenever they feel the need. With Westminster compliance obviously.

    It would soon be back to the dark ages and barter would be the best way to survive. We can avoid that to some degree if such a meltdown came after Indy, with a ring fenced Scottish financial system.
    It would perhaps help us survive until the worst is over. However, it would be impossible given financial markets to avoid deep problems, but having a stable financial network in Scotland would help immensely.

  44. Breeks says:

    Capella says:
    6 June, 2018 at 6:27 am

    ….Ten things we learned about Scottishness –


    Ten things we have learned about the BBC…
    1. They are liars.
    2. They are propagandists.
    3. They apply double standards.
    4. They hold FOI requests in contempt.
    5. They maintain despicable covert political links whilst professing neutrality.
    6. They produce mind numbing anodyne shite and call it Scottish Broadcasting because it happens to be made in Scotland.
    7. They operate blacklists, exercise prejudice, and limit access/ exposure to pro Independence arguments.
    8. Their News is biased, not only against Scotland, but Europe and Middle East too.
    9. The BBC bears some responsibility for the Xenophobia, warmongering and disinformation which led to Brexit and increased hate crime in the U.K.
    10. The BBC breaks Purdah rules to sway voters with impunity.

    And one more for free…

    11. The BBC will not be the State Broadcaster in an Independent Scotland.

    I haven’t mentioned them paying more in the wages for two presenters than paying for Scottish football rights, their institutional sexism routinely paying women less, being a Government mouthpiece over Syria and the Skripals, that is when it’s not being a shadow government mouthpiece over Labour Press releases. And of course, who can forget the BBC’s knowledge and years of complicity with Jimmy Saville and disgusting culture of abuse?

    Scotland can do an whole lot better for ourselves than the BBC. Do kid yourself otherwise.

  45. Les Wilson says:

    Capella says:
    6 June, 2018 at 6:27 am

    Excellent !

  46. Nana says:


    The Proclaimers support The Scottish Independence Foundation
    Find out more @

  47. Clydebuilt says:

    Smallaxe . . Re RBS closures . . . Notice the branches are getting closed on different days . . . That’ll be as HQ will have only one or two teams going round the branches telling the Staff and Customers to Fuck Off

  48. auld highlander says:

    If I had any of my meagre funds in rbs I would transfer to a different bank and tell the rbs to f off.

    Meanwhile the EU are doing the same but in a different way.

  49. Clydebuilt says:

    Talking up NHS Scotland

    Nurse staffing levels in Scotland are nearly twice England’s

    Consultant numbers are up 46% under SNP

    Cancelled Operations in England are Three Times the level in Scotland.

  50. cearc says:

    I would see the post office and national bank being part of a National Service Hub, probably including the current council service points and citizens advice.

    Also a person handling issues advising on and passing on issues to the appropriate MSPs and/or councillors. A sort of governance service. Surgeries are few and (in rural areas literally) far between. Having a neutral person with local knowledge listen to the issue and then produce a suitable letter to go to all relevant MSPs and councillors would be a huge boost to democracy (and give list MSPs some work, most people probably have no idea who their regional list members are). Especially because it can be done when you pop in for a stamp. MSPs and councillors could also actually hold surgeries there.

  51. Breeks says:

    auld highlander says:
    6 June, 2018 at 9:31 am
    If I had any of my meagre funds in rbs I would transfer to a different bank and tell the rbs to f off.

    I’m with you Auld Highlander.

    The loss of service and facility is an inconvenience to customers, but in the bigger the picture, the eventual demise of RBS is no great loss to Scotland.

  52. cearc says:

    auld highlander,

    Trouble is that if your only means of making a cash transaction is a van that turns up for a few hours 8 miles away twice a week or a very long journey, your options are limited.

  53. auld highlander says:

    cearc at 9.45

    Yes indeed but then it would be a monthly trip to where ever to get my dosh when the stash under the mattress runs out. And if ye cannae make it there is always family an freens.

  54. Craig P says:


    Ten things we learned about Scottishness –

    Some interesting results. I am surprised as many as 59% of people identitfy as British. Still some work to do there. But what is really interesting is the question, ‘are the best days in the future, or in the past?’

    Conservative supporters were most sure that Scotland was better in the past (47%) whereas SNP voters were markedly more confident Scotland would be better in the future (64%).

    There really is no unionist vision for the future, is there?

  55. call me dave says:

    Survey / questionnaire in this morning’s National with one question asking if a Sunday National would be popular.

    Looks like they might go for it!

    Bring it on … I buy one every normal day … Maybe the Sunday Herald lost a lot of readers last month. 🙂


    Heard younger Mundell on shortbread earlier trying to be convincing but sounded very fishy to me. His constituents can’t be happy with father and son about this.

  56. At UK parliament today,

    Oral Questions: Scotland
    Oral Questions: Prime Minister (12 noon)


    Westminster Hall Debate,

    11.00am Base-porting of Type 26 frigates
    (The sitting will be suspended from 11.30am to 2.30pm.)

  57. Chick McGregor says:

    So another convenient ‘leak’ in an attempt soften public perception of Ruth Davidson, she didn’t like The Vow, apparently.

    There’s leaks, damned leaks and sleakit tactics.

  58. Dr Jim says:

    The trouble with these *identifying as something* polls is when asked a binary question obviously you choose one or the other but I would suggest if anyone asks you that question you might just tell them to bugger off because they’re only asking in order to misuse the answer you give by creating a statistical sum to include or exclude you from a group THEY wish to identify you with for purposes they don’t tell you
    but usually end up in a grouping that includes the questioners opinions of that grouping which invariably aren’t your opinions

    Identifying as Scottish means you hate the British or English even if you don’t, because they never asked you that, but by implication you must (see how that works)

    They don’t do these polls for fun

    We live in a country where *journalists* have no interest in reporting good news or indeed actual news, most other countries celebrate good news in their countries but not in Scotland (funny that eh)

  59. Capella says:

    Grave error – The pump dont work cos the vandals took the handle comes, of course, from Subterranean Homesick Blues. I must have been half asleep at 6.27. Still, both are very apt in our dire situation, Stuck Insde of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again. Dylan is just a compendium of quotes!

    He bought a house in Nethybridge and his brother lives there so would be eligible to vote in indyref2.

    @ Breeks – very succinctly put.

    @ admiral, Les Wilson and Craig P – I have no idea what questions they really asked and in what order. But it is always possible to reframe the answers – in our favour!

  60. Big Question to lickspittle Mundell Snr from Scottish MP`s is,

    What recent discussions he has had with the (a) Scottish Government and (b) Prime Minister on the Scottish Parliament’s decision not to grant a legislative consent
    motion for the European Union ?

  61. Brian Powell says:


    59% identifying as British, though not true, would be very disappointing for them, as the majority of people in England identify as English.

    It would make those Brits-not-Scots sounds rather cringey and pathetically fawning. They would certainly be despised by those they were trying to identify with.

  62. @call me dave

    how many `normal days` do you have a week 🙂

  63. Cubby says:

    The BBC is a corrupt disgusting criminal organisation. All who work for them should be ashamed.

  64. James Caldwell says:

    Last year, prior to the announcement of RBS closures, I was in my local branch in Troon a few days after the announcement of the impending closure of both the Clydesdale and TSB branches in the town. I asked the teller if they had received enquiries from Clydesdale Bank customers wishing to transfer and mentioned that I had some accountancy clients who were with the Clydesdale.

    The branch manager was passing behind me at the time and called me over. He stated that the RBS branch wasn’t closing, as far as he knew, and encouraged me to speak to my clients and send them to meet him. I took some business cards from him and did speak to some clients.

    One client was already in the process of opening an RBS account when the closure of the Troon branch was announced in the press.

    On my next visit to the branch the manager apologised and stated that he and the local staff had not been aware of the closure plans until the day before the public announcement.

    This raises two matters, firstly the lack of prior consultation with customers and secondly that lack of consultation with local staff.

    I have a small holding in the RBS Group through shares inherited from my parents and chose to go to last year’s AGM in Edinburgh to complain about the proposed closure. I outlined the matters mentioned above and asked if the bank would review its closure programme in view of the closure of other banks in the same town. The question was not answered by the CEO Ross McEwan. All he said was that the staff in Troon would not have been aware of the closure when they first spoke to me.

    After the meeting i pointed out to the staff at the reception that my question had not been answered and a few days later received a letter from RBS stating that the closure programme would not be reviewed.

    I made regular use of the local branch in Troon to conduct personal, business and charity banking and on each occasion over the summer and early autumn asked the customers in the queue (and there always was a queue) what they thought of the impending closure. All customers were concerned and regarded it as disgraceful. Members of staff told me that someone was due to come from head office to discuss local matters but the meeting was cancelled.

    I had considered starting a local petition but decided against since the local staff said it would be ignored.

    The closure of the Troon branch took place in October and since that time I have had to make use of branches in Irvine or Kilmarnock. Both of these entail at least an hour of time.

    Although the closure has affected my own position it is much worse for local business owners who require to deposit large amounts of cash, cash cheques and obtain change. I also appreciate that the situation is much worse in other areas where longer distances are involved, the most extreme being the Island of Barra (although it has a temporary reprieve).

    I chose to go to the RBS AGM again this year and again asked questions about the closures. Last year I was the only one, this year there were a number but there were no satisfactory answers and several points were ignored. The only response was that there had been a massive change in banking practice with more people using digital banking. I too use digital banking but still require to make branch visits regularly.

    This year the bank made great play about their decision to reduce their carbon footprint by ceasing to fund oil exploration in the Arctic and other fossil fuel projects. I asked how this squared with their branch closure programme that meant customers had to travel extra distance to conduct banking business. This was ignored too.

    I asked if the bank had considered taking on Post Office franchises. This could enable customers to obtain a full banking service and a full post office service rather than the limited banking service available at post offices. This was ignored. The suggestion that banks could share branches was dismissed with the statement that it was tried once a few years ago but didn’t work.

    I am not sure what more I can do as a small shareholder. I have been a customer of the RBS and its forebears since I was born and a shareholder in my own right for over ten years. The RBS have ignored shareholders, staff, customers and unions in pressing ahead with their closure programmes.

    Another indication of the attitude of the Directors was their decision to oppose the establishment of a shareholder committee. This is apparently common in Scandanavian counties and was proposed last year but dismissed. A formal resolution was put forward this year with the Board’s recommendation that it should not be approved. The vote against the motion was about 98% to under 2% for approval. This shows that small shareholders have little power with Institutions voting in favour of Board recommendations at at times.

    Any suggestions?

  65. Capella says:

    I think we should just reframe the meaning of British.
    As Sir Robert Peffers has often said, we are all British by virtue of living on the British Isles. But some of us are aspiring to restore an independent state of Scotland.
    (I just knighted him myself).

  66. galamcennalath says:

    Chick McGregor says:

    So another convenient ‘leak’ in an attempt soften public perception of Ruth Davidson, she didn’t like The Vow, apparently.

    That’s certainly not the impression she gave voters in 2014 ….

    Is there anything Colonel TurnAroond has’t done a U-turn on?

    She exists only by distancing herself from her own parties views and policies. If Scotland had a free media they would challenge her charade. Instead we have what we have, and they go along with it all and protect her.

  67. Capella says:

    @ James Caldwell – interesting story and well done for raising the issue at Board meetings.

    I just looked up the RBS website and searched for a branch near me. The result said there were 3 branches within 5 miles, including in my local village. That is a flat out lie. There has never been a branch of the RBS here, even before he closure programme.

    What to do? My wish is that we set up a nationwide savings bank based on the Trustee Savings Bank model which the Tories stole and sold off in the 80s ( now taken over by LLoyds). But this time with some cast iron means of preventing these thefts – such as control at Holyrood.

    As Gus mentions above, the real owners of the TSB, the depositors, were not given shares in their bank at sell off. The Treasury simply sold it off as if they owned it. Thus they behaved exactly as the Russian oligarchs did in the Yeltsin period. Probably egged on by the same Chicago school banksters.

  68. jfngw says:

    I think I treat the veracity of the Ruth Davidson position the same way I treat all the MSM reporting of her. She was one of them, she will never be criticised. If they make a documentary about her I presume it will be called ‘A Position for All Seasons’.

  69. Cubby says:

    Independence is the norm throughout the world. Independence is normal. British Nationalists support dependence on another country. This is not normal. Indeed it is very abnormal.

    1. If they are Scottish then they are basically telling themselves they are useless and need another country to help them out.
    2.If they are not Scottish then they are participants in subjugating their host country to the rule of another country.

    Is either scenario acceptable? Most definitely NO.

    Scenario1 is down to brainwashing by the media and a strong Stockholm affect. These people need help.

    Scenario 2 these people are just colonialists and need to be called out.

  70. Andy-B says:

    As usual the taxpayer is the fall guy I bet they sold the shares at a low price, to help their corporate buddies, expect big Tory donations in the future. Followed by a the creation of more troughing lords.

    Didn’t they sell Royal Mail shares on the cheap as well to their buddies?

  71. call me dave says:

    @Scot Finlayson

    I posted from my tablet earlier on the move in Glenrothes which the shopping centre provide free wi-fi, now restored after 3 months of a break in service, glad to have it back again.

    Had to get out the hoose this morning as Kaye literally was recycling old rubbish but she’s gone now and shopping done including fish and prawns (not those ones). 🙂

    Anyhoo. ‘Normal’days Aye OK! Meant… Mon to Sat.

  72. jfngw says:

    Every time you hear a company complain about too much red tape and health and safety overload, remember Gernfell Tower and what companies will do with even less regulations.

    Relaxing the regulation of the building sector results in schools that fall down or buildings that burn like matches.

    Brexit will not help this, it is heading for a race to the bottom. Time to get out now.

    As for Darling, I supect he joined Labour because it felt more exciting when he was young, all that street protesting. Later he reverted to his true beliefs, could just have easily joined the Tories.

  73. The Wasp says:

    In Alloa branch of RBS a fortnight ago, after standing in a queue for 25 minutes, I asked the teller if she thought it was really a good idea to close the branch, as it is always so busy. She said she couldn’t comment as the staff had been warned not to speak about the closures

  74. gus1940 says:

    In recent privatisation scams perpetrated by our wonderful WM government the shares have been ‘sold’ directly to various City Institutionsi. i.e. the tories’ fan club.

    Why, as in precious privatisatis,o were private investors not allowed to subscribe for shares?

    The Youngs/Spinney scandal isn’t the only thing that smells fishy.

  75. Robert Louis says:

    These bank closures are already having a terrible effect on businesses. I know of several, where they have now changed accounts three times, following branch closures.

    The notion that ‘people prefer doing banking online’ is just spin, to mask corporate greed. You cannot deposit cash online, and we simply do not operate in a cashless society (thank goodness; imagine a government (or bank) having the power to literally control all your day to day spending). With cash comes freedom.

    This needs urgent action. We already have small business staff driving long distances with very, very large sums of money to deposit.

    If banks no longer want to provide essential business and personal banking services, which our economy needs then we should establish a new state run Scottish bank for that very purpose. I think you would then rapidly find greedy pigs like RBS, reversing their closures.

    The problem in becoming online only, is that their are other better options such as first direct.

    In reality, I think RBS is finished. It is not an accident. They will be sold off, to milk those accounts they still have.

    All of this is happening because we do not control our own country.

  76. Dr Jim says:

    RBS is a commercial bank and it’s decisions are for them says Theresa May

    But RBS isn’t a commercial business is it because the tax payer owns most of it, so for anyone to suppose that RBS DIDN’T consult the UK government before it announced closures I think is a mistaken belief and the behaviour and over confident way the chief executive has behaved since the announcements leads me to believe he knew perfectly well he would be supported by the UK government because it was their plan all along

    In exactly the same way as Youngs seafoods and Edinburgh Woollen mills, and will we do the rest of the list of Scottish assets being stripped away at a rate of knots to boost Englands dwindling economy before Englands big brexit day registers with the English people because they’re the important voters and not us Scottish voters who don’t vote Tory

    The UK government tells us that the BBC is NOT a commercial business but that’s not true either, the BBC sells it’s progamming to 200 countries around the world and also sells product placement advertising for many of its programs yet still they pretend to the population it’s a licence paid for organisation which is a complete and total lie, it’s a UK government tax pure and simple

    If Jeremy Clarkson was so unpopular with the BBC why are they still selling Top Gear the original program to those same 200 countries after telling us they fired him because we the people were offended by him

    The Jimmy Savile cover up for years was for exactly the same reason……Money

    Ya think we count….do we F..k

    Government for the people by the people close to the people means Independence for Scotland
    Let’s be having it

  77. gus1940 says:

    Situation more or less normal last friday at Musselburgh RBS Branch.

    On entering I was 15th in the queue.

    But nobody uses the branches any more.

  78. Robert Louis says:

    This is classic Tory behaviour. The RBS share price will be deliberately reduced, until after it is sold to the money men and donors to the Tory party, whereupon it will experience a ‘bounce’. Just like the post office sell off.

    All the supposed liabilities will suddenly be dissapeared.

    Asset stripping of scotland.

  79. Cubby says:

    Independence is the norm throughout the world. Independence is normal. British Nationalists support dependence. This is abnormal.

    1. If Scottish they are in effect saying that they themselves are too rubbish to run their own country.

    2. If not Scottish they are supporting the subjugating of Scotland by a foreign country.

    Scenario 1 is due to brainwashing by the media and severe Stockholm syndrome. They need help.

    Scenario 2 they are old style colonial enablers and should be called out.

  80. Effijy says:

    Listening to today’s dose of Westminster propaganda from the EBC’s Radio Shortbread, I was interested to hear that Service Personnel
    in Scotland earning more than £26,000 p.a. are to have a subsidy from the Westminster government???

    It was my interpretation from the SNP Governments official documents, that NO One earning up to £33,000 p.a. would pay a penny more in Tax, and for those above that figure at £40,000
    would pay an additional sum estimated at around £2.50 per week.

    So there we have it. Lying B**tards at the EBC and at Westminster!

    70% of Scots will be better off under the new proposals, and being in that higher bracket, I won’t miss that sum as I spend more on Wings and Scottish Independence projects per day.

    I’m more than please it may take some working families away from Food banks, it keeps the vicious Red and Blue Tory Bedroom Tax at
    bay and it gives young women in Scotland from poor economic backgrounds access to sanitary products.

    You can call me proud to be a Scot from a nation that cares about its fellow citizens and who prioritises the need for a fair and just society.

    Good Old Tories are going to subsidise a couple of quid for each Army Captain, Major, Colonel, and General who have very significant earnings and who have pensions that we can only dream of.

    Yet another example of how Westminster is the Government of the Rich, for the Rich, By the Rich.

    Hope old Etonian Major General Ponsonby-Smythe-De Rotheschild
    also gets a turn from this and the discounted RBS Shares from his Bullingdon Drinking Buddies.

    These guys are often down to their last couple of £Million and need it badly or the Rembrandts must go.

  81. galamcennalath says:

    Cubby says:

    British Nationalists support dependence …. due to brainwashing by the media

    Indeed. At present, it’s mostly the media’s doing. If Scotland was served by a free, fair, and balanced media (especially broadcast) we would definitely be independent now.

    There is however another aspect to BritNattery dating back pre Thatcher. There was a time when the UK state was omnipresent in folks’ lives. Millions were employed in nationalised industries. And even private industry received big government grants – Linwood, Bathgate, Invergorden etc etc..

    Gas, electricity, telephones, most transport – all public utilities.

    More than half of Scots rented local authority houses. While this isn’t UK state, it tied many ordinary people into Unionist councils, especially Labour.

    Now? The UK state is the armed forces, most of the tax and benefits system, the BBC, and WM … not much else.

    Older people remember a different UK. Many want it to return! Some younger people too live with the legacy myths and delusions of what the UK meant and means.

    A component of BritNattery is historical, nostalgic even.

    We need to let those people see things as the are now, and how much better they could be.

  82. Merkin Scot says:

    How much of the missing half billion P.O. money did Cable trouser? How much of the ‘lost’ 27 million will Darling trouser? We should be told.

  83. ScottishPsyche says:

    The optimism of Scots with regard to their future flies in the face of the negativity we are bombarded with day after day.

    It suggests that we are growing in confidence and refuse to see ourselves the way we are portrayed by the UK media. It also suggests that, unlike our neighbours, we can see an escape route.

  84. Nuggets O'Pish says:

    O/T – from previous thread
    ronnie anderson says:

    Chris Bell
    Nuggets o Pish

    “Your donations to the crowdfunder have now been passed on to the Rev, Nuggets o Pish ah hiv actually to go the bank counter & tell them the names of donators for the receipt. (might be a change of name chist tae save ma blushes lol.”

    Sorry about that. I really thought I was just chucking a fiver in the bucket. Didn’t imagine this would cause you any inconvenience. The name thing was a bit unfortunate (seemed like a good idea at the time!), but the alternatives weren’t much better. I nearly chose the name ‘Juan Kerr’.

  85. ScotsRenewables says:


    Just a heads-up to let everyone know there is a new website where you can see all the upcoming YES/pro-independence events for the next year, or add your own event if it is not listed.

    The site is also intended as a resource bank where groups can either request specific help or offer specific skills or resources for other groups to use. The site is live now and forms for requesting help, offering resources or listing events are available.

    Help make this into a powerful resource and point of contact for the new campaign. Click the link and take a look.


  86. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Scottish Psyche @ 1.10pm

    Then there is always the possibility Westminster stole our giftie: tae see oorsels as ithers see us, along with everything else they have nicked from us since 1707.

  87. galamcennalath says:

    ScottishPsyche says:

    It suggests that we are growing in confidence and …. we can see an escape route.

    Yes. I believe we are winning hearts and minds.

    The way I look at it is …

    40% are confirmed YES, 30% max are confirmed BritNat-till-death NO.

    The other 30% are open to persuasion.

    Perceived risk of YES or NO, what’s best for them and their families, their job, their pension, their mortgage? Which future offers the best future?

    All that and the arguments around them have changed completely since 2014.

    To be precise, they have been changed BY Westminster!

    We only need to persuade half of the ‘nervous’ that the status quo UK is dead and Indy is the best option, then we have won 55:45.

  88. gus1940 says:


    I am surprised that the SNP Government is supporting an additional £14Billion being spent on SE England Infrastructure.

    Given the inevitable outbreak of jumping up and down we are going to suffer over this decision would it not be better to indulge in a bit of fence sitting in the meantime.

  89. Dan Huil says:

    Flipper Darling is a vile creature only interested in his own financial advancement. Total tractor.

  90. Dorothy Devine says:

    Could anyone tell me about the additional funds announced by Nicola for catholic schools ? It appears to be upsetting a friend – a lapsed catholic one to boot!

  91. HandandShrimp says:

    It would seem that the only people happy in HMS Britannia are those with the aspiration to leave it. 🙂

    What is utterly bizarre is that the Brexit voters in England seem to be the most pessimistic. What in blue blazes did they think they were voting for?

  92. Dr Jim says:

    @Dorothy Devine

    I asked about this and the answer I got was because Catholic schools are not fully funded by the state so there’s a financial deficit so the extra funding is about equalising parity with state schools

    Someone may have numbers for it

  93. Dr Jim says:

    Isn’t it odd that a country (Scotland) who never votes Tory but always gets Tory and is rightly angry about it voted for Tories in 2014 because a certain amount of them thinking once again that the Labour Party who work for the Tories would get them out of having voted Tory

    Is there something these certain folk aren’t noticing about how the TorLabs are taking the piddle out of them and have been for years

    These certain people are still falling for this

  94. Jack Murphy says:

    Thanks Nana for your link at 8:57 am

    The Proclaimers support The Scottish Independence Foundation
    Find out more @

    Without you I would have completely missed out on this Scottish Independence Foundation.

    Their Aims Page begins:

    The Scottish Independence Foundation (SIF) believes that Scotland can only realise her immense potential as a nation through Independence.
    SIF believes passionately in the power of the people of Scotland to achieve that Independence and to build a prosperous, inclusive and just society for all………”

    PS I’m going to give the Foundation what I can afford.

  95. Dorothy Devine says:

    Thanks Dr Jim!

  96. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Lose – Lose for SNP from BritNat MSM @gus1940 says:

    All that matters is the SNP Government has voted for a Barnett Consequencial of £1.4 Billion for Scottish transport infrastructure.

  97. Legerwood says:

    Whether an independent Scotland uses the pound for a Scottish period or introduces its own currency from the off one thing is for sure – the banks must, must be tightly regulated from day one.

    If the pound is used initially then there needs to be a Supervisory Board, with sharp teeth, from the off to ensure that the banks do not indulge in casino banking and wreck the newly independent Scotland. Panama is an example. Uses the US dollar, no Central bank to act as lender of last resort and get their banks out of a hole by printing money. Panama’s banks are tightly regulated and are some of the most stable in the world.

    Another salutary example is Ireland. Foreign banks set up in Dublin and indulged in the sort of casino banking that would not have been allowed in their home nations. When the crash came Ireland ended up with a huge debt because of them.
    So be careful who you invite in.

    Tight banking regulations are not a disincentive to investment and growth. Absence of control, the light touch approach, is the equivalent of building your house on sand.

  98. Breeks says:

    ScotsRenewables says:
    6 June, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    Just a heads-up to let everyone know there is a new website where you can see all the upcoming YES/pro-independence events for the next year, or add your own event if it is not listed.

    The site is also intended as a resource bank where groups can either request specific help or offer specific skills or resources for other groups to use. The site is live now and forms for requesting help, offering resources or listing events are available.

    Help make this into a powerful resource and point of contact for the new campaign. Click the link and take a look.


    Bookmarked. Thumbs up.

  99. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Dorothy Devine at 2.24

    It’s for all schools including obviously Catholic ones. Ask you friend where she got the information

  100. shug says:

    just looking at BBC news and not a word about Scottish Questions and the demand for Mundell to stand up for Scotland and supporting the Scottish parliament.

    Only an article about lifting historic gay convictions

    Talk about manipulating the news!!

    Call Kaye Call Kaye

  101. mike cassidy says:

    The extra funding for catholic schools is actually funding for more students to acquire the Catholic Teaching Certificate.

    I know. 2018 – and still this nonsense.

    Or maybe the First Minister just wanted to annoy the bigot party.

  102. jfngw says:

    Since I could first vote in 1974 Scotland has returned a majority of Tory MP’s 0% of the time, but the Tories have governed Scotland for 60% of this time. It’s time for democracy in Scotland.

    Now imagine the MSM if this was happening in England. They are up in arms because we needed to adhere to regulations agreed by the UK government at the EU.

  103. Golfnut says:

    @ effijy.

    ‘re compensation for Military Personnel.

    Military Personnel don’t pay tax to the SG, Tax and NI will be at English rates, and that goes straight to the Treasury. There is no allocation in Barnett to the SG from Military tax contributions. This whole story is a Lie from start to finish. It should be easy for the SG to call them out on this.

  104. Proud Cybernat says:


    Just spoke to a businessman and NO-voter in 2014 (otherwise a very decent guy). He is very concerned about Brexit and just told me he hopes we get another referendum because he’ll be voting YES next time. In his words: “Brexit’s shit and it hasn’t even properly began yet. Now independence in Europe makes sense.”

    I really think many, many more people like him are coming to that view. Tipping-point inching ever closer.

  105. schrodingers cat says:


    im hearing many similar stories on social media, im not sure if this really means anything but it does look like a trend.

    i hope so, im banking on this brexit goat rodeo to deliver a majority for yes

  106. Donald Mac says:

    I banked with RBS for 30 years but they have closed our local branch already and this means I have to travel 26 miles to my nearest branch to get money out or to deposit cheques. It has cost me a fair amount of time and money since the branch closed.

    I’ve now opened new accounts with BOS who have a branch here and am about to move everything over to them.

    I’ll get great satisfaction from telling RBS to shove their accounts in my nearest branch when I make the switch soon. Let’s hope it’s busy!

  107. Greannach says:

    It’s a bit unfair to blame Alistair Darling for too much.

    He was a much-pampered private schoolboy who enjoyed playing the rebel for the entertainment of the neighbours in Inverleith for a while. At university, he took on the role of radical dinnerparty host then chose the Labour Party when it was a safer career bet than the Conservative Party of his Lord Provost of Edinburgh grandfather.

    His election was a surprise to many [“Alistair Darling? I thought the Tories didn’t get any new MPs”] and his elevation through the ranks suited the Blair era just fine – superior accent, inferior talents.

    Now he’s Baron Splendid making lots of money in the House of Lords and the money drain.

    He’s back home.

  108. Bill Hume says:

    One contributer above (I forget which one) remarked on the idea that many British Nationalists keep wanting to go back to the good old days.

    Well, I’m 67 Y.O., and I don’t remember the good old days. My late father, born in the early 1900’s walked the streets as a child with no shoes. My Grandfather came from the Gorbals and then moved to Falkirk to work in Carron Iron Works, brought up the family (2x girls and one son) in a room and kitchen in a tenement and I’m pretty sure he didn’t experience the “good old days”.

    So the next time someone harks on about this, gently remind them that for working class people in the United Kingdom……

    THERE WERE NO GOOD OLD DAYS. (Shout if you must).

  109. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Gordon Brown thinks Scotland’s place in the union is not secure, too right mate.

    Love that guy he actually makes me laugh, he should have his own comedy show.

  110. Cactus says:

    Thanks for the “United 4 Yes” link ScotsRenewables… an excellent resource.

    Good job AUOB, it was necessary.

    17 days remaining to go…

    Twa weeks n Saturday.

    You knew it.

    A congratulations also to all the Girls and Boys for today!

    Celebrate 😉

  111. Cactus says:

    Freedom’s come in many forms.

    Scotland wins again.

  112. jfngw says:

    Just as England head off to the World Cup, BBC Scotland have a documentary about how Scotland was crushed in 1978. Just to remind you that Scotland is shite, can’t see any other reason as it has no relevance to anything.

  113. gus1940 says:

    Re J Wind Talker.

    Re Heathrow 3rd Runway and Barnett Consequentials – who said we would get any – the bastards will say it is a National scheme and therefore no consequentials.

    Where were the cnsequentials re the countless billions spent on London’s rail terminals, Crossrail et al?

  114. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    As posted above as banks seem determined to close branches we should loosen the legislation restricting Credit Unions from offering current accounts.

    We I’m sure would happily put our money into the local credit unions.

  115. Croompenstein says:

    Come on Scotland Youth v England Youth in the semi final of Toulon Tourny… Oliver Burke’s just hit the post aahhh..

  116. @Golfnut

    Unless you have a link proving otherwise,my impression is that service personnel in Scotland will pay the Scottish rate of income tax,

    anyone resident in Scotland during tax year will have the `S`
    prefix on their tax code,

    `Military in Scotland earning over £24,000 will not pay higher tax bills.

    While they will be included in the higher tax band, research indicates they will pay lower overall tax than those in England until they earn around £26,000.

    Workers earning up to £33,000 will face lower bills than the current tax year.

  117. Cactus says:

    How will you celebrate our independence day People…

    Will you..

    Dance your way to freedom.
    Sing your way to freedom.
    Laugh your way to freedom.
    Cry your way to freedom.
    Vote your way to freedom.

    Or will you MARCH your way to freedom?

    iScotland will have ALL the levers.

    And you can bank on that.

  118. Dorothy Devine says:

    Cactus , may I do them all??!

  119. Robert Louis says:

    Halle – f*****g lujah! Round of applause for all involved.

  120. Cactus says:

    As each of us now has the…

    Freedom to dance.
    Freedom to sing.
    Freedom to laugh.
    Freedom to cry.
    Freedom to vote.

    And the freedom to MARCH.

    Freedom good.

  121. Cactus says:

    Aye aye Dorothy, know doubt we all will 🙂

    Wings Over Bannockburn.

  122. Clydebuilt says:

    James Caldwell. RBS. Just yesterday I contacted the bank by phone over the course off two calls I failed to answer the security questions to their satisfaction, even when I had all the answers ready at hand for the second call, the call handler asked the date when the account was set up, it was many decades ago, that was counted as a fail because we didn’t know the month.

    During first call , had to go and get statements for the balance, the call handler hung up in the short time I was away.

    At one point my partner was told to stop assisting me, and that I was to switch off the loudspeaker.

    Each call took around 17 mins

    I’m going to switch bank. And they are going to be told why!

    Probably shouldn’t be surprised we’ve seen what a cheeky bastard the CEO is!

  123. Hamish100 says:

    some of the issues over bank closures.

    Could some deal be struck for Credit Unions taking over in some areas as community banks?

  124. Cactus says:

    Staying in their United Kingdom thingmy may lead to…

    No freedom to dance.
    No freedom to sing.
    No freedom to laugh.
    No freedom to cry.
    No freedom to vote.
    No freedom to bank.

    No freedom to MARCH.

    No freedom bad.

  125. mike cassidy says:

    Service personnel in Scotland.

    From the link on the above page

    “Place of Residence”. The term is not defined in legislation so HMRC will applying it in the context that most would commonly understand it, i.e. an individual’s “place of residence” is a place that a reasonable onlooker, with knowledge of the material facts, would regard as a dwelling in which that person habitually lives; in other words his or her home.

    “The final decision as to whether an individual is a Scottish taxpayer or not lies with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) and not MOD. “

  126. Cactus says:


    Stop dancing.
    Stop singing.
    Stop laughing.
    Stop crying.
    Stop voting.
    Stop banking.

    SO go MARCHING Scotland.

    For freedom.


  127. Breeks says:


    When is the Edinburgh AUOB March?
    Is it on around the time of the Edinburgh Festival or Fringe?
    Is it too late to organise an Entertainment event / Summit?
    Can we invite delegations from Europe?
    Can we invite delegations from Catalonia?
    Can we do something “spectacular”?
    Can we help them get here and find accommodation? Planes, trains and boats, can show the EU that Scotland really digs “free movement”?
    Can we organise a European themed music festival event with bands and tents and beer and stuff?

    Build it, and they will come.

  128. Cactus says:

    Sounds good Breeks, an invite all vip rsvp.

    Hey Inverness!

    X em on yer calendars.

  129. Iain mhor says:

    On a side note and ‘heads-up’ about the RBS branch closures and potential costs involved – Anyone travelling with business takings etc should ensure they have ‘Business Insurance” on their vehicles as opposed to ‘Social / Commuting’

    A few years ago our supply business had numerous customers at the counter bewailing their lot following a local ‘Checkpoint’ stop of vehicles. You know the type: ‘Police/ DWP/ VOSA etc. Anyone who answered “What is the nature of your journey” with “On the way to bank with daily takings” had their insurance checked and were fined for invalid insurance.

    I reckon we had around twenty customers who fell foul of serious fines & points on licence that day. I thought I’d point it this out to save potential heartache.
    Same could be said of travelling to & from place of business.
    ‘Social & Commuting’ only covers from domicile to single business address.

    If anyone can confirm similar experience and if such specific insurance checks are still undertaken, it would be a much appreciated I’m sure.

  130. heraldnomore says:

    James Caldwell. Goodness it’s been a while man, still watching Killie? Pipe smoke ring any bells with you?

  131. Thepnr says:

    Just thought I’d add as maybe it’s not quite general knowledge that even if your local branch has closed then you can still do withdrawals and deposits with your local Post Office who will process all payments through your own bank.

    Not ideal I know and if my local RBS had closed but there was another banks office then I’d transfer my business. Many towns though now find themselves with no banks at all. Rather than drive whatever miles to another town then worth thinking of using the Post Office instead.

    They handle both personal accounts and business accounts, main difference being you will almost certainly need to use a “personalised paying in slip” which you can get a book of from your current bank.

    Click the “Withdraw and Deposit” tab to see a list of all UK banks that are accepted and their specific rules. Most are the same and for personal banking there is no charge.

    Biggest downside is that it can take two days for your actual bank account to be updated before the money shows as being paid in.

  132. Golfnut says:

    Richard Murphy at Tax Research. One of his major beefs with GERS is the non attributable benefits from expenditure. I.e. we pay for defence, but get none of the income generation associated with the expenditure. That includes Tax and NI.

  133. Proud Cybernat says:

    Edinburgh AUOB march scheduled for 6th October. Expected to be the BIGGEST march yet.

    You listening, Woofie?

  134. Thepnr says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    Let’s make the March for Independence on 23rd June at Stirling/Bannockburn the biggest yet first, then we can focus on the finale in Edinburgh on 6th Oct which will be massive.

    I have every intention of being at both, hope as many Wingers as possible will join me in sending Westminster the BBC and Scotland a message that comes through loud and clear.

    We want OUR INDEPENDENCE! and you’d better believe it.

  135. Clapper57 says:

    “Farage and seven other #Ukip MEPs (so far unnamed) will have their pensions withheld in escrow until the completion of all current Fraud Investigations, pending results and possible financial penalties”.( according to Far Right Watch twitter a/c).

    Oh my ……..justice is served….hope actually withdrawn is final outcome as opposed to just currently being withheld.

    Har feckin Har….wah wah wah waaaaah.

  136. Dr Jim says:

    How far will they go to rubbish the baby box, well now we know, New Zealand, because STV managed to dig up a Prof from that country who says Scottish baby boxes are a nice gift but unsuitable for sleeping in and he’s got a better idea which is a plastic box that is much shallower so you can reach in easily and take it to bed with you

    Well that all sounds lovely….except…the box is shallow meaning if you turn over in bed it’s likely to turn over in the other direction tipping your new born baby underneath your possibly sleeping partner or if you’re on your own straight on to the floor

    Oh and eh when plastic burns it doesn’t just burn it melts and emits toxic fumes so everybody dies with this lovely idea, oh and one other thing New Zealand infant deaths are higher than Scotland

    But hey Scottish baby boxes are still SNP Baad though…and in Finland and about twenty other countries who are now using these baby deathtraps because they also think that baby boxes are Baad too

    Is there no end to Unionist crap, I swear to God if they don’t stop this persecution and prosecution of Scotland to halt its progress folk like me will become irritated in the extreme

  137. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thepnr –

    Kin right.

    Still sickened that I missed Dumfries but will be at Stirling even if I have to hitch.

    Inverness, not sure about but it’s possible.

    Dundee, same.

    Edinburgh, definitely.

    Hoots mon!


  138. Fireproofjim says:

    Good suggestions for Stirling and Edinburgh, but may I add another.
    A pipe band (or two) would be great for the atmosphere.

  139. Fireproofjim says:

    Or a flute band!
    Surely there are Orangemen for Yes.
    I’ll go and lie down now.

  140. Dr Jim says:

    SNP pass a good law today but still it turns out they’re Baad because a SNP MSP spoke his mind about something that was not to his preference

    Folk don’t seem to get the fact that you don’t have to like something yet still consider it fair and just , I don’t like a lot of things but that doesn’t mean I’m anti or against them, it just means they’re not my taste or preference

    Too much high horseyness from folk who think everybody should like or embrace what they like

  141. Still Positive says:

    Aye Dr Jim @ 11.35

    John Mason comes across as a narrow minded bigot – surprised he is in the SNP and don’t why they tolerate him.

  142. ben madigan says:

    @ Bill Hume who spoke about “the good old days”.

    Well said Bill – never was a truer word spoken!
    We are bamboozled/taken in/ deceived/ by a middle class “Enid Blyton” , “Rudyard Kipling” type myth of an English Arcadia – which may have existed for the privileged few, who were well-educated, monied and toed the British line.
    It didn’t exist for the vast majority of people in England, Scotland, wales and ireland, as Bill correctly stated, referring to his own family history.Which is the family history of most people in this dysfunctional UK

  143. jfngw says:


    Gives the people of Scotland the power to decide its future, not the politicians.

    Vote Yes to control our own future.

    We can’t forever sit on the sidelines claiming ‘not in my name’ but refuse to take the step necessary to change things.

  144. Chick McGregor says:

    Ah Flipper! The man who colluded in the state takeover of the then, World’s largest bank, RBS and the forced merger of HBOS and LLoyds with HBOS as subsiduary when the sainted ‘English’ Barclays bank were granted absence from the showdown yet clandestinely received a much larger bail out than RBS and HBOS combined.

  145. Chick McGregor says:


    Possibly, very possibly, despite many contenders, the most treacherous shared act (with Brown) in Scottish history.

  146. schrodingers cat says:

    ben madigan

    I blame downtown abbey 🙂

  147. ben madigan says:

    @schrodingers cat who said:
    “I blame downtown abbey”

    yes indeed. And Brideshead Revisited, Poldark, Miss Marple etc of previous decades!
    Shows and books like this perpetrate the “myth” of a Golden Age which never existed for the majority of the population.

    Just look at how many people exited “service” as soon as they could find something else to keep body and soul together! the entire system collapsed between WWI and WWII.
    Look at some of the post- WWII photographs of slums and poverty

    Why people buy into the “Great British myth” that we are/were all middle-upper class” never fails to amaze me!

  148. Graeme McAllan says:

    Dakk, Darling and Brown would struggle with the intellectual capacity of Bungle and Zippy from Rainbow, but to be fair Bungle is much better looking 😉

  149. Robert Louis says:

    John Mason of the SNP. The SNP do a good thing and correct a total injustice against people who were persecuted in Scotland, yet mr. god-squad, decides an invisible magic man in the sky has told him it is a bad idea.

    People can believe whatever fairy story they like about gods, spirits, kelpies, unicorns or whatever, but superstitions have NO PLACE in the Governance of a democratic nation.

  150. Robert Louis says:

    Clydebuilt at 0758pm,

    Totally agree. A friend had recent similar experiences, although they got through to telephone banking, they were effectively bombarded throughout by the person telling them that they could have used the RBS ‘app’, or via the internet to do the transaction. This was done at almost every stage, over and over again. When she told them to stop telling her such nonsense, they were aggressive and wholly unapologetic. Customer was effectively told ‘this is how things will be from now on’ at RBS.

    A once great bank turned into utter sh*te by wanton greed complicit cowardice, an australian CEO and a desire by the English government to utterly destroy and asset strip Scotland.

  151. Nana says:


    WATCH: First Minister @NicolaSturgeon speaks to us for our 500th edition of Representing Border tonight and says “I think most people would think that Scotland is probably closer to being an independent country today than has ever been the case in the past”.

    Time for Mundell to go

  152. Nana says:

    Brexit: losing patience

    English nationalism is the real threat to British unity and identity

    Labour too divided to back Norway-style Brexit deal – Starmer

  153. Socrates MacSporran says:

    An old school-friend of mine left after Fifth Year and joined the Royal Bank, as it then was.

    He worked his way up to Regional Director level in what was by now, RBS. He has repeatedly said he was delighted to get out when he did, at 55, about 20-years ago.

    He told me: “Even then, the bank was being run by people who were not bankers, who had not come up through a proper banking culture and I could see problems looking down the line.

    They were taking decisions no “proper” banker would have taken, and, as I feared it would, it all went pear-shaped.

    Those of us who were real bankers warned of what would happen, but, with the City of London culture rampant, we were ignored – the city spivs ruled, and we all know what did happen; a great Scottish company ruined.”

  154. Macart says:

    Many thanks for the punt Nana. 🙂

    Clocked the Davis story and yes, with less than a week to final withdrawal bill debate/vote and three till the June summit?

    Marx Bros farce does kinda spring to mind.

    This won’t end well.

  155. Dorothy Devine says:

    Nana , thank you – and the poster btl on the FM’s interview is a wee cracker

    Clever Enough
    Big Enough
    Wealthy Enough
    Had Enough
    Dissolve the Union , has now become my mantra!

  156. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    English nationalism is the real threat to British unity and identity

    I agree completely with that Irish Examiner article.

    The underlying problem for British nationalists is that they are being overwhelmed by English nationalism. There is very little of their ‘Britishness’ left to cling to.

    I would go further and point out that the problem we Scots have is that English nationalism has it’s eye on lands and people beyond the borders of England.

  157. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Off tae Ayberdeen.
    We don’t want a General Election in the autumn.
    So we should announce that we will fight that GE on the single issue of independence and on the basis that if a majority of independence supporting MPS returned from Scotland gets independence – that’ll put them off.
    And if they do go ahead a vote at a GE is just as legitimate as a referendum.

  158. ScottieDog says:

    @proud cybernat
    “Just spoke to a businessman and NO-voter in 2014 (otherwise a very decent guy). He is very concerned about Brexit and just told me he hopes we get another referendum because he’ll be voting YES next time. In his words: “Brexit’s shit and it hasn’t even properly began yet. Now independence in Europe makes sense.”

    Ther has always been this illusion that the Tory party are the ‘business’ party. They have been nothing of the sort. They are the party of the bankers and rentiers. You’ll here Ruthie Mugabe often quote Adam Smith on the subject of the free market. What he was actually referring to was a market free from bankers and rentiers – I.e those whose income he categorised as ‘unearned’.

  159. Luigi says:

    Dave McEwan Hill says:

    7 June, 2018 at 8:57 am

    Aye. I’m also thinking that if another snap GE is called, then the SG really has to do something drastic to regain the initiative. Another 10-20 SNP seats lost (which could easily happen given the MSM situation) would be catastrophic for the coming indyref and the BritNats know it (regardless of the “mandate” situation).

    So yep – why not make the GE a manadate for independence – what’s to lose?

    Go down fighting. 🙂

  160. Tinto Chiel says:

    @DMH 8.57: couldn’t agree more and a non-binary choice, as in a GE, is more difficult to fix.

  161. Nana says:


    I don’t think it’s the first time Davis has said he’s off!

    Here’s Peston’s take on the will he go/will he stay situation

    Also latest on Brexit here

    UK business angered by lack of input on post-Brexit links with EU

  162. Jim says:

    Scottish Labour stage mini ‘Jizz Fest’ with racism row MP Hugh Gaffney billed as as “special guest”

    That is how I read it anyway!

  163. Ottomanboi says:

    Ah, the conclusive proof that ‘Scottish’ Labour is a collection of w+nk+rs….

  164. Ottomanboi says:

    The rise and rise of Anglocentric nationalism is the old/new kid on the block.
    It is now, thanks to Brexit, manifestly the main political driver. Submission to this ethno-jingoistic order is out of the question. There is nothing in the ‘United Kingdom’ for us, if indeed there ever really was.

  165. Cactus says:

    Independence good.

    ‘Dependence’ bad.

    Scotland good.

    UnitedK bad.


  166. Dr Jim says:

    The Supreme court has ruled that the powers and laws of devolved Northern Ireland Assembly can’t be interfered with

    Should we not be taking the UK government to court then over the retention of Holyroods powers or are we doing double standard English jiggery pokery makey up on the spotty law for Scotland again

  167. Dr Jim says:

    The Supreme court has ruled that the powers and laws of devolved Northern Ireland Assembly can’t be interfered with

    Should we not be taking the UK government to court then over the retention of Holyroods powers or are we doing double standard English jiggery pokery makey uppy on the spotty law for Scotland again

  168. Cactus says:

    How can Scotland ‘depend’ on another country’s government to govern (ever) in our ongoing interests, after all that has come and gone…

    Glasgow must be greater than 60% Yes2 by now.

    Glasgow must be greater than 75% Remain too.

    Glasgow must.

    Scotland too.

  169. Brian Powell says:

    Dave McEwan Hill

    The FM has already said that for the previous GE, so that mandate already exists. The SNP MPs outnumbered Opposition MPs by a substantial number.

  170. Benhope says:

    On the paper review on Sky last night, Paul Dacre to retire as editor of the Daily Mail after 26 years.One of the most influential men ever in the newspaper industry who really understood middle England!

    I wonder will he be coming to join us on his estate north of Ullapool?

  171. Cubby says:

    I am getting fed up with all this talk about Scotland being in deficit.

    Only independent countries can be said to be in deficit or surplus. All this talk about Scotlands deficit just plays along with the British Nationalists propaganda. A truly independent Scottish government will decide whether Scotland is in deficit or surplus. At present we do not CONTROL our revenues/expenditure therefore we are not in deficit or surplus.

    The GERS nonsense is just Britnat propaganda.

    Remember Westminster has taken decades of 100s of billions of pounds of oil wealth from Scotland and they want all the future decades as well. They will do and say anything to keep ripping off Scotland.

    Despite all this oil wealth the U.K. still runs an annual deficit that has taken the UK national debt up to £2 Trillion. Who in their right minds can believe this is evidence of good government? They have managed to combine austerity with racking up a massive debt.

    Dissolve the Treaty of Union now as things are just going to get worse if we stay in the UK.

  172. Jack Murphy says:

    THe Daily Mail England for it’s comfy Middle England readers ONLY:



    But up here
    The Daily Mail Scotland screams:


    Is Scotland not interested in this Wild West UK?

    Perhaps the Daily Mail England journalists believe Scotland is now an independent country. 🙂

  173. Clydebuilt says:

    RBS. . . . .

    With the obvious demand there is for local bank branches, surely this is a business opportunity that’s waiting to be taken up.


    If the Yoons think they will win a vote on Indy in the Autumn, the prospect of the SNP turning a GE into a decider on Indy won’t deter them. Infact it might very well have the oposite effect!

  174. Robert Louis says:

    Not on twitter, but I see REv stu is merrily chuntering utter mince about John Mason’s absolute right to spout homophobic p*sh. Mason can believe whatever he likes, but don’t use the Scots Parliament as a vehicle for peddling religious and superstitious piffle – that’s what churches are for.

  175. Dr Jim says:

    If we defend the rights of one group to a way of life then we must defend the rights of others who don’t like that way of life

    That’s different to being anti anything, that’s just the preference to choose for oneself

  176. North chiel says:

    Agree entirely with DMH @ 0857 pm . as the GE tactic is to thwart indyref2 . The question is ,if no GE will their be another internal coup in the Tory party ( May deposed) and a soft Brexit leader installed ? or will “ hard brexiteers” seize control , or if GE then result could be Labour win ( if against Gove/Johnston/Mogg) . ie.the convenient “ Westminster reserve government” for a period until the mess is cleaned up , (with the usual Devo supermax promises to the Scottish electorate ).Should therefore the SNP stand on “ the right to initiate Independent negotiations with EU” and dissolution of “ Union treaty” as mandate ? . As a minimum SNP should mandate Scotland stays in SM/CU with further vote on possible full EU membership (or not) ,AFTER negotiations. Should we ask Barnier to “ arbitrate” in any “ protracted” negotiations with Westminster? Should we go for “ hard or soft” SCOTEXIT? So many questions?

  177. Cactus says:

    Imagine one day walking along Union Street in Glasgow, aye say a full five years following our independence day…

    Within that time, notice that all of the shops are now occupied and prices have returned to normal, there are no longer homeless or needy People on the street, there are no longer food banks.

    Enjoy your lunchtime walk in sunny Glasgow.

  178. jfngw says:

    @Robert Louis

    Any other areas you would like free speech restricted or the exclusion of people that don’t hold the official position from. There is a word for that type of society.

  179. Cactus says:

    Trolling on Radio shortbread the now haha.

    Vroom vroom!

  180. Cactus says:

    Coming up… #fmqs

    Tune in.

    R & R.

  181. jfngw says:

    BBC getting more tabloid by the day. Runs the Labour press handout about a Glasgow Council car. Truth at the bottom of story, it was donated and cost the council nothing, it will more than likely save money. You know the rule, put the actual fact at a point readers have stopped reading.

    We can’t say this direct connection with newspapers is not paying off for them at least. With the red top it’s hard to ascertain if I’m on the BBC or Daily Record site now.

  182. ScotsRenewables says:

    Good grief, that’s the first time I have watched Richard Leonard in action. Is he part of a campaign to get the SNP to hate the English? What an utter dick.

  183. paul gerard mccormack says:

    @robert louis

    Robert, while i fully understand your viewpoint and your depth of feeling, i am afraid to say that jfngw has a point. The alternative ‘arrangement’ does not bear thinking about.

    Try thinking about Ephesians 4:2 – i prefer the translation of ‘to suffer one another’ rather than ‘ to bear’ as its a lot nearer the mark. This isn’t really superstitious pish ye know, but simply practical.

    I too happen to agree with you, but tough shit. The alternative is not happenin. i just think of John Mason as being at the (10% of 1%) fundamentalist end of the whole christian spectrum. No big deal. These people will always be with us.

  184. Cactus says:

    #fmqs, that went well.

    Aye Tories, show some cheer for Scotland!

  185. jfngw says:

    I think we will need to start calling David Davis the nearly man, he has now nearly resigned about five times. Next time he really means it I have been informed.

  186. Merkin Scot says:

    Don’t mess with David ‘Hitman’ Davis or he’ll batter you with his indecision.

  187. wull2 says:

    I said two years ago there would be a GE just before the end, Labour would win so it will be recorded in history that Labour took us out of the EU, lost Scotland and Ireland.
    Popcorn anyone. YES

  188. Gary says:

    I never saw this on the news…ever. But it’s only our money, not like we should be involved in what happens with it.

    Brown saw this coming, there were lame calls to ‘cool the housing market’ when in fact he helped cause the problems by not only doing nothing but actually dismantling the protections we had. Briefly there was talk of having protections in place to prevent a recurrence but gradually these are being eroded by the banks and their allies in government. Wait a decade or two and this will happen all over again, probably in a SLIGHTLY different way but definitely on the same scale.

    Well, providing there isn’t a catastrophic war first…

  189. Jack Murphy says:

    TODAY. STV Boss defends job cuts.

    The broadcaster’s chief executive Simon Pitts appeared before MSPs on the Culture Committee.

  190. Jack Murphy says:

    “…… Mr Pitts [of STV] told MSPs that the move was “necessary” to guarantee the future of the broadcaster and denied it is being prepared for sale…….”

  191. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Dave McEwan Hill @ 08:57,

    I’m beginning to think there will be a UKGE this autumn. Not because of some devious Tory plot to undermine an upcoming IR2 – though I would definitely not put it past them as a desperate last-ditch effort to stop the incoming tide – but simply because the UKGov will finally implode from its own incompetence in the face of a very organised and together EU.

    And afterwards, what difference will it make if the Tories or Labour win in England? They are both as divided and “pie in the sky” over the EU as each other, and both are BritNat to the core.

    And my reaction to that expectation is actually the same as yours – put a clear demand for independence right at the forefront of the SNP campaign, and set the heather on fire this time round. A renewed substantial majority of MPs on that clear basis should trigger the parting of the ways, à la Thatcher.

  192. Liz g says:

    Robert J Sutherland @ 3.24 & Dave McEwan Hill @ 8.57
    That’s my thoughts exactly….
    I’m half hoping Nicola will say as much on Saturday.
    Something along the lines of.. The 2015 commitment that a vote for the SNP was not a vote for Independence was a one time only commitment.
    That each election will now be a manifesto commitment to view an SNP majority as a mandate to end the Treaty of Union with the Westminster Parliament.

    Can’t see why not, they have messed Scotland about with Brexit,Vows and worst of all, trying to give the impression that we in Scotland only get to vote on this when They say the time is right!!!
    Time they learned it’s our decision..

    But as I say I’m only half hoping, cause it might also be better to announce it when they actually call an election….. Glad I’m not in Nicolas shoes!

  193. twathater says:

    DMH ,NORTH CHIEL, TINTO CHIEL, RJS and others I agree and think Nicola stating this would scare the brit nat horses out of a snap GE, What’s to lose, with the increasing turnout at the marches I think indy fans would love it , IMO SNP losses at the last GE were a combination of apathy and lazyness people weren’t motivated enough to vote , the brit nat parties would have to come out with a manifesto other than no to a referendum
    Truth less and Co would have to come into the light and the Scottish people would see the lack of ANY substance , the same for Richard ( the dick ) and wee Willie move up the bus

    The timing is everything

  194. North chiel says:

    Liz @ 0349 pm “ it might also be better to an announce it when they actually
    call an election” . Agreed Liz , there will be further developments before the autumn which will
    no doubt include further attempts by this dispicable Tory government to demean the Scottish Parliament and ignore our elected government. Because not only is our removal from the EU against the express wishes of our electorate unacceptable but also the removal of legally devolved powers from Holyrood links “ Brexit” directly with the status quo of our Holyrood Parliament. For this reason the status of our country’s elected Parliament is directly linked to the treaty of union and our exit from the EU. Therefore the Scottish electorate has to be asked again on the 2014 result in the context not only of the EU issue but also the “Westminster powergrab”.
    If there is to be an autumn GE , then the SNP should frame their mandate in the context of these issues, and the treaty of union & historical sovereignty of the people of Scotland needs to “ take centre stage” .

  195. Cactus says:

    The sun sets in the west.

  196. ben madigan says:

    @ Wull who said two years ago “there would be a GE just before the end, Labour would win so it will be recorded in history that Labour took us out of the EU, lost Scotland and Ireland”.

    So what Wull?
    Why should we worry about labour’s reputation down the line?

    England and wales voted to leave the EU and leave they will, though it’s still not clear under what terms

    Most of Ireland was lost to the UK in the early 1920s. About 50% of the NI population want to exit the UK. Sooner or later this will happen, whether under a Conservative or Labour govt will make little difference in the long run

    Scotland? Will never be lost to the Scots. Sooner or later they will decide to leave the UK, with or without permission,with or without a new Referendum, depending on how events unfold in the near future.

    I understand people might feel sorry, frightened and upset at the though of the UK ceasing to exist as such but remember “No man can stop the march of a nation”

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