Tally-ho for the final chukka
Posted on
December 07, 2022 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Same energy.
Although to be scrupulously fair to General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmany Melchett, he did at least actually launch an offensive from time to time, rather than just putting out occasional half-arsed discussion papers and press releases about it.
“Strategist” at the SNP….? Hmmmmm….
A bit like being the Taliban’s Spokesperson for Equality and Diversity and Inter Faith Dialogue. 🙂
Wasn’t he supposed to be part of the SNP “rapid reaction” squad to refute Project Fear and yoon disinformatsia back in the day…? Or was that some other SNP no-mark? Remind us how well that worked out…?
F*ck me Colquhoun describes himself as a “strategist for the SNP and Yes Scot on his Twitter feed, strategist for what keeping us in the union.
Has Baldrick got another cunning plan?
This from the “strategists” Twitter feed.
“Support for Scottish independence by age, from the latest Ipsos Mori poll:
16-24: 73%
25-34: 68%
35-44: 61%
45-54: 53%
55-64: 47%
65+: 45%”
It’s a f*ckin crime against Scots that the polls are showing this in favour of ditching this prison of a union, yet Sturgeon the Judas wants us to wait a whopping two years for the next GE, when we could be free in 2023, if she followed the plan which the Rev has kindly illustrated step-by- step in the below link.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
And we all know that Field Marshall Sturgeon is also one for not changing their mind about the Big Push.
Let a million poppies for independence bloom.
the only big push these arseholes do is when they have to push their arse up off those comfy house of commons chairs to go to the voting lobby.
Gies a shout when Elsie McSelfie’s getting ‘the big push’- I’ll tune in for that.
Republicofscotland
Over on Moon Howler Central, aka The Duran, there was a discussion a couple of days ago on the future of Sunak. The conclusion is that the Conservative Party is once more on the edge of civil war and an early election is the only path to find a way out of the mess. Even if Labour (or Farage) take over, it’s unlikely they will halt the decline. That basically gives the Conservatives a couple of years to regroup and ready to assume power once more. So, even with skyrocketing polls the SNP are going to be caught with their panties around their gender-neutral ankles.
Highly selective time framing from Ross also.
“+10% since 2014”?
“-4% since 2016” might be almost as accurate.
In world war 1, when the Scottish regiments were sacrificed to run on open ground at banks
of dug in German machine guns a Toff Officer would stand behind the soldiers in the trenches and if anyone refused to commit suicide by going over the top the officer shot them
Well going over the top to attack Westminster is much easier with lots of weapons to defeat a weak and exposed fraudulent government.
We need an officer with that gun behind Sturgeon or we die of old age in the trenches with her.
Just another gravy bus hinger oan that sups at the snp teat and is happy to sell mouldy carrots
Rev stu,
OT but serious for England ( if) true,
Is Oxford Council to be the first to TRIAL restrictions zones in England on peoples travelling, under climate change,
Will these Zones increase ?
If it is maybe you had better move back to Scotland before you get stuck,
I’m so very, very excited
I’m very, very excited
It sounds like the only strategy they have is to get as many voters, when the push comes to the shove, to hold their noses and vote SNP at the next elections.
If the SNP weren’t pursuing such despicable policies like GRA, running the devolved administration so incompetently as well as the independence campaign so badly then people maybe would have given it more consideration.
Briefly overcoming my languid Schopenhauerian weltschmerz, I cannot but draw attention to the self-important pomposity of the first line of Caballero Colquhoun’s tweet…and…and…I considered composing more on this subject but my fellow opium-eaters require me to finish the recitation of Rimbaud’s Une Saison En Enfer. These SNP ‘types’…the inner disgust is almost overpowering…it’s enough to put one off one’s laudanum.
“Lions led by (chained) Unicorns”
Folks’ anger is palpable. Yet some are willing to continue to believe the fallacy that Sturgeon actually wants independence.
I see the transcult bill is being rushed through – If only Sturgeon had shown a tenth of that determination to deliver independence.
The Sturgeon Ascendancy: the shortest grimoire in the world.
How Scotland’s very own Hermione Granger turned the Gold Standard of the 2014 Independence Referendum into a nugget of purest Green…
“Ah, indeed it is, Captain Callcoon, mehhhh…”
In other news, “Sunak ‘shocked’ by allegations about Michelle Mone” says BritNat Brainwashing Channel. In which case, he’s the fricking only one!
Stuart @4.34pm.
Stuart.
To be quite honest we should be concentrating on Holyrood, and Sturgeon in particular, and I’ll tell you why.
The Rev has shown us a perfectly feasible way out of this prison of a union see the link below, the Rev even give us a step-by-step guide on how it could be done.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
In my opinion there’s no way out of this prison of a union via Westminster, but the plan to exit via Holyrood exists, this is where we need to concentrate our angst, energy, ire, motivation whatever you want to call it.
We know that Sturgeon will never resign to save Scotland via a snap Holyrood election that can be used as a de facto indy vote, what we need to do is try and compel her and her MSPs to do it. Forget the happy clappy flag waving AUOB marches they were great in the run up to the 2014 indyref with thousands upon thousands attending them, today Sturgeon can quite easily ignore them or cause them grief by instructing any council held by the SNP to make life difficult for them we saw that in Glasgow (Manny Singh).
No, what we need is protests and demos outside Holyrood, and Bute House and wherever Sturgeon attends an appointment as FM, we need to let her see that we see that she’s stopping Scotland from exiting this onesided prison of a union. I’m afraid there’s no other way we must get proactive in this fashion.
Eventually people will wonder why the indy movement is demonstrating outside Bute House and Holyrood and we’ll tell them all why, we can be free in 2023 is perfectly possible the million dollar question is what is the indy movement prepared to do to attain this, basically do WE (the indy movement) want it badly enough to get out there and fight for it by demonstrating (placards and all) that Sturgeon can save us from this union next year but she doesn’t want to.
Also don’t be fooled, and think oh no demos don’t work outside Holyrood, well 500 women held a demo outside Holyrood Sturgeon’s named was yelled out on multiple occasions for her GRR impinging on women’s rights, she heard it alright and must have felt very uncomfortable for a day or two later the SPCB asked Westminster for special protection rights (Similar to Downing Streets) against demonstrators. Against We the people it’s our parliament as well.
What we need is, every time Sturgeon exits Bute House or Holyrood or a FM engagement there’s an indy crowd booing her and waving placards for not resigning and holding a snap Holyrood election next year, and if the Britnat media ask any of us why we’re demonstrating we tell them the reason.
We can be out of this union next year, Sturgeon is stopping that we must let her know we know she’s stopping it.
If we let this chance pass us by and wait for her GE promise, we’ll be bitterly disappointed, and two more years will have been wasted, and I can only imagine how much more damage Westminster will have done to Scotland, and how much tighter their grip will be on Scotland.
Next year is in my opinion (with this in mind) a pivotal one.
Stephen FLYNN…HofC today.
«Far be it from me to offer advice to a near billionaire, but he is going to have to up his game. Here is why: in the last 15 minutes, a poll has landed showing that support for Scottish independence has now hit 56% and support for the Scottish National party sits north of 50%. In that context, does the Prime Minister consider that increasing energy bills for households in energy-rich Scotland by a further £500 will cause those poll numbers to rise or fall?»
Same tired old «banter» from the newbie.
Who the fuck is Ross Colquhoun?
Love Blackadder.
You missed a joke about Darling, I’m sure.
Oh. I see. Just looked him up. It says on his website – no lie – that he is ‘the first person in the world to create art out of E coli bacteria.’ Ye couldnae make it up! Laughing here. That should come in useful in dealing with his SNP colleagues and the High Heid Yin, mind you. So maybe there’s method in the artistic madness after all…
link to rosscolquhoun.com
The poll numbers (for any one that hasn’t seen them) show the SNP could win over 50% of the vote at Westminster leading to great pressure on the UK govt.
It is something to consider and (just possibly) get behind from time to time despite grievances.
The independence movement and SNP don’t have their detractors to seek who aim to pull the vote before 50%. Should celebrate positive momentum.
Re my 7.02pm comment.
For FM engagements outwith Holyrood or Bute House such as visiting industrial estates or any other corporate premises as FM, we need a small dedicated group of folk and probably two to three vans to quickly deliver them to the situ to set up and demonstrate outside wherever Sturgeon is talking, once info is received as to where she’s speaking, we want her to hear our voices outside and see us across the street with our placards booing and whistling at her because she won’t do the right thing.
This sort of protesting would need to be kept up over a period of time, until at least the majority of the indy movement knows why it’s being done, right now many, many folk who desperately want Scottish independence don’t even know the snap Holyrood election route exists.
In my opinion Sturgeon is shallow, egotistical, and she craves positive attention/praise, this kind of relentless protesting would in my opinion have an impact on her. Small mobile demos could also be held outside Bute House when Sturgeon is in attendance, whoever she was hosting at the time would surely be wondering why the demos are taking place.
As for Holyrood itself, larger demos on a people rotation system could work, but again it’s all down to what the indy movement is prepared to do, how much do we want it, must be the question.
Marching from A to B waving flags, banging drums and painting Saltires on our faces whilst blowing whistles, with rousing speeches at the end and some music just won’t cut it, when our FM can just ignore all of it.
If Astonished is right, and it is true that Sturgeon is indeed rushing the Trans legislation through, how should we interpret that? If we grant that she regards this particular piece of legislation as her most important legacy, and greatest achievement, is she trying to make sure she gets it through before she loses her job?
Does the rush mean that she already knows that her days in office are numbered? In that case, it would be even more urgent for her to get the legislation through if that would give her the credentials she needs for whatever her next job is going to be? Has she already got something lined up in that regard?
In such a scenario, there is also the further question of whether she already knew her time as First Minister will soon be coming to an end when she declared that the next GE would be a de facto referendum? If so, that would be very convenient, for several reasons.
i) She is not confident of winning it, and wouldn’t have to, because she’ll be gone before it happens.
ii) On the basis of her being the one to declare the next GE as a de facto referendum, she will always be able to claim she was fully committed to independence and did her best for it, even if she never has to lead that campaign, or gets to win it. The fact that she set it up will be enough for her to claim she did all she could for it. She could even point out that she reacted immediately to the Supreme Court’s negative decision. In retrospect, you might even argue that that was why she went to the SC in the first place: she knew the request would be turned down, but it enabled her to look like someone fully committed to gaining Scotland’s independence. Even more retrospectively, you might even argue that that was why she stopped Cameron B from pre-empting her when he tried to take the same question to the SC. She wasn’t going to let him steal her thunder.
iii) If she knows she is going to be gone before the next GE and someone else leads the SNP to the kind of majority required in the so called ‘de facto referendum’, she will always be able to claim that she played her part – a very important part – in this victory, by setting it all up for whoever that leader happens to be.
iv) If, on the other hand, that new SNP leader does not gain the majority required, thereby losing the ‘de facto referendum’, she will be able to wash her hands of responsibility for that loss, saying it wasn’t her who lost the election, and still claiming she had done everything she could for the cause by boldly setting up the GE as a de facto referendum.
v) If all the above would conveniently allow he to cover her backside, there could be something else on her mind, which makes ramming through the GRR before she loses her position so important to her. Getting the legislation through would be all the more important if she needs that on her CV to get the next job she already has in mind for herself. It might even be a condition for her getting that job. Even already… ‘Get the legislation through, and we’ll look after you: we’ll make sure you get the job you want.’
Who would the ‘we’ be in that last sentence? It could be anybody – anybody, that is, who is a ‘somebody’, with real clout and influence in the international. Or a little group of ‘somebodies’ all colluding together to push the Gender Recognition agenda through, and advance it further and further.
Please don’t mention the World Economic Forum and/or its associates, or that nice Mr. Schwab, or whatever his name is ,,,
I am not saying that any of the above passed through Nicola’s mind, or that it actually happened. Just that it might have done. Is that the kind of (byzantine) way in which her mind works? Would it fit with what we know – not least because she herself told us – of her various syndromes and anxieties? I really don’t know. We would have to ask a psychologist, and I have no expertise whatsoever there.
It makes sense to me that she would think in that kind of way, and plan accordingly. However, whether or not these questions, and the speculations to which they might give rise have any basis in reality must remain a matter of … well, pure speculation.
No Ross, it will not lead to “great pressure”.
If you beg for something, the other party has the power and the leverage.
Getting 53% and then saying “please sir” again will place no
“pressure” on anyone without some stronger piece of leverage backing it up, such as “we will dissolve Holyrood anyway then, and hold an election declaring that if we win that we declare independence” or cutting out that step and saying “well if you won’t recognise our mandate, we are just going to proceed to independence anyway”.
If there’s an insistence that Westminster must agree that Scotland can be independent first and that “great pressure” will succeed on its own, agreement will never be forthcoming and it will never happen. Ever.
Credit where credit is due the Conservatives have done all the hard work.
I’d like to hope that the corruption of Westminster is finally cutting through. Like the VIP lane that’s got Michelle Mone 28 million for dodgy PPE.
But I won’t hold my breath, it was Carry on in the Jungle with Uncle Matt and the British public loved it.
Wull, I think NS is just rushing the willy wavers’ charter through to get it on the statute book before too many people notice the evil that she has done. I don’t think the plan is any “grander” than that.
@ Wull
All fairly plausible speculations .
Alternatively . A parallax view ….her work will be done when she delivers the coup de grace to Independence via this phantasmagorical UKGE as Plebiscite ju ju .
Or , at the very least , waste another couple of years , while the Brit State bolts every possible exit and tightens the Internal Market screws even further .
Her place in Woke Olympus is assured
The Yes movement is in dissaray. We don’t have anything to motivate us. Most of us have gone from anger to despair.
That is down to one woman , who hasn’t a clue how to lead. Her strategy is waiting. Waiting for something to be over, for her rulers to blink, for someone else to make a move. It’s not leadership , it’s apathy.
I see gregor is going for the late unlamented Cameron Brodie award of spamming old threads with so much extraneous bullshit that he’s heading for a clean sweep of the Recent Comments section.
Less Wings Over Scotland, more gregor Over Wings? Sheesh….
Wull, I don’t think there’s any need to over-analyses Sturgeon’s motivations.
She has a lot of selfies with world figures. It doesn’t matter if the GRR ends up a complete disaster and gets repealed, what is important is that it was introduced under her watch. All she needs to do is write up her CV and spin the narrative when going to prospective new employers.
As I mentioned, the most divisive person in British politics Jim Murphy got a peace envoy type job after he got booted out. If he can do it then Sturgeon has no problem getting another job and keeping it until she is found out to be either too incompetent or toxic to continue in the role.
Ross says:
7 December, 2022 at 7:37 pm
The poll numbers (for any one that hasn’t seen them) show the SNP could win over 50% of the vote at Westminster leading to great pressure on the UK govt.
So what? Pressure on the Govt to what? It’s all just vacuous white noise. Blah! Blah! Blah.
I would suggest 56 out of 59 SNP MP’s should have been more than adequate to “put great pressure on the UK govt”, but they did nothing, not a thing, with that advantage.
You could gift wrap the SNP 60% in the polls, 70%, 80%, even 100% support in the polls to match 94.6% of the seats they actually had secured and yet squandered for nothing.
Such is the nature of feckless impotence that all the advantage in the world still counts for nothing.
If you want to see Scottish Independence delivered, get your name on Liberation.Scot and pray the politicians don’t wreck the Constitutional route to Independence like they’ve fucked up and compromised every other open goal they’ve been presented with.
Ottomanboi says: 7 December, 2022 at 7:04 pm
It’s going down a treat with the clapping seals over at WGD. Some are easily amused I guess…
If a referendum on Scottish independence or a Scottish election or general election takes place and it is declared that a majority in these for SNP will lead to Scottish government declaring independence how will you all vote ?
Will you vote SNP like the majority
Or will you vote ALBA splitting the independence vote
Or will you vote Labour in the hope of Christmas past ?
Oh there is one other choice , will you just not vote , like I suspect some tories will do
You might be correct and no Scottish independence vote occurs , in which case the rest of us will tip our hat and say bravo well spotted , the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon will along with others be thrown out of the SNP and a new order will prevail , Scottish independence is not going to go away ….ever
The thing is you might all be right , farsighted , on the ball
BUT , you might not be
The thing is , dealing with Westminster and media slaves and Scottish ("Tractor" - Ed)s is not easy and there is no doubt that NS is a talented politician
None of you know for sure what she plans or how she intends to play it sure you can guess you can use your expertise but at the end of the day you really don’t know with certainty
I look forward to tipping my hat to you and congratulating you if you turn out to be correct and I will recommend you all to friends and relatives BUT if you are wrong I will repeat what I have said here
@ TGC
I did a quick internet search and found this article from 2014 that had posed a number of unanswered questions about Scottish independence:
link to msnbc.com
Some of them are irrelevant now but it is 8 years later we are still discussing the important ones and they still haven’t been put to bed.
On the question of the constitution, can you understand why some of us are reluctant to vote for SNP at a future election
Support for Scottish independence up to 56%? link to tinyurl.com
@TGC
….and it is declared that a majority in these for SNP will lead to Scottish government declaring independence how will you all vote ?
It isn’t the SNP’s place to dictate terms to the movement as a whole. There are many in the movement who will never be able to bring themselves to vote SNP again under any circumstances. Plebiscitary elections must be based on the total vote for ALL pro-indy parties.
There is little prospect of a common slate of candidates, or “United Yes” front. The Scottish Greens have already said they will field a full slate of candidates: remember they have form for this kind of stuff at Holyrood.
I’m not sure I could ever bring myself to vote SNP now, even if they get rid of Sturgeon and her acolytes.
Karine Polwart (2019): The Whole of the Moon:
“…You saw the whole of the moon…”:
link to tinyurl.com
TGC says:
7 December, 2022 at 9:35 pm
The thing is , dealing with Westminster and media slaves and Scottish (“Tractor” – Ed)s is not easy and there is no doubt that NS is a talented politician.
She’s a Constitutionally illiterate fraud who has deeply and irretrievably compromised Holyrood and Scottish Democracy, undermined the Claim of Right and through her craven capitulations, has set all manner of grotesquely unconstitutional precedents which the Westminster Government will never now willingly relinquish.
She’s even trying to sabotage a Plebiscite General Election by arbitrarily tying victory to 50% share of the vote, when the threshold for a democratic mandate is winning 30 of 59 seats.
That’s after sabotaging the SNP, which for 70 years carried the hopes of a Nation, with the wanton infiltration of her nasty wee crew of Trans Talibaneers who could never, ever, hope to win an electoral mandate for their toxic agenda, so they just hijacked the Scottish Independence Movement to use as their drug mule to get Self-ID on the Statute so perverts and deviants get easier access to vulnerable women and girls.
She’s a talented politician eh? Not the words I’d use to describe her.
If there’s any justice in Scotland, (aye there’s another Institution now compromised), but IF there’s still justice to be found, there’s a wee room in Cornton Vale with her name on it.
See how she likes have big bad Frank as a cellmate because he’s so in touch with his feminine side.
@Breeks
She’s even trying to sabotage a Plebiscite General Election by arbitrarily tying victory to 50% share of the vote, when the threshold for a democratic mandate is winning 30 of 59 seats.
It really, REALLY isn’t. It’s votes that count, not seats. the 2015 GE returned 56 SNP MPs out of 59 on < 50%. You're tilting at windmills on this, just as much as with the Liberation 100K signatures and cunning plans option. The majority just aren't buying it.
I can’t wait until we get to 60%, I feel sure the NUSNP will only say there can’t deny democracy if we wait get to 70%.
Who is going to decide what the Plebiscite General Election will be about?
Sturgeon?
Sturgeon & the SNP are only interested in votes for the SNP and staying in power for as long as possible.
TGC says:
7 December, 2022 at 9:35 pm
I look forward to tipping my hat to you and congratulating you if you turn out to be correct….
We already ARE correct, you pretentious arse.
Brexit created a split decision on Europe; one sovereign entity in the UK voted for Brexit, and the other sovereign entity emphatically voted against it. Constitutional stand-off! Stand by the Claim of Right, and the UK Union has an existential Constitutional crisis on it hands to make the Northern Irish Backstop look like a picnic; an existential Constitutional crisis which the Treaty of Union could not have survived, and which would have kept an Independent Scotland in Europe.
Unfortunately, we had Sturgeon fighting Scotland’s corner, so instead of Scottish Independence in 2016-17, we had Gauleiter Surgeon’s craven capitulation to the will of Westminster, and the Claim of Right sold down the river by her Vichy Administration.
We’ve “been” right about Sturgeon since 2016. It’s only taken you sycophants 6 years to catch up and finally notice the funny smell oozing out of Bute House.
Do tell us TGC, what greater outrageous betrayal, more heinous than Claim of Right swept aside, with both Independence and EU Membership squandered, is it that you’re waiting to see before making up your mind about the narcissistic tragedy in heels that is Nicola fucking Sturgeon?
Soon there will be nothing left for her to wreck.
TGC@ 9:35pm
Sturgeon is a talented showman, a talented speaker, a talented vote harvester.
If she was a talented Politician we would be Independent because that is the stated purpose of her Party.
The Irish had talented Politicians. Ghandi was a talented Politician, Mandela was a talented Politician. The achieved Independence during their lifetime.None of them inherited a Nation on the cusp of freedom like Sturgeon.
Are you comparing Baby Boxes ( part of a Finnish policy stolen) and GRA with the achievements of real Politicians.
How on earth do you split the independence vote?
Ruby
We are being “prepared” for, – only the SNP votes will be recognised by Westminster. It isn’t Westminster, it is blackmail by Sturgeon. The line will be rolled out before the vote that not voting SNP is “dividing” the recognised Indy vote. She has form.
GRR Bill, that’s what £600k gets you.
It appears that the “”leadership” wants to push this through before “maternity leave” ends and someone important might have to be sacked?
TGC…
You’re obviously new here, or you’d have figured out that Sturgeon’s SNP is about as pro-Indy as Sunak is Welsh.
So we keep voting SNP, in spite of all the evidence as to their true motives? Forget the Gender Woo Woo, the Salmond stitch-up, the absolute cluster-f**k she’s made of “running” the country, the bench warmers playing along with the British Establishment at Westminster, etc. etc. etc.
You’d still have us wheesht for Indy, hold our noses and vote SNP one more time, as we’ve done since 2014, in the vain hope that after a decade or so in power, and countless mandates later, she might, just might, actually come up with the goods, this time?
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results” – Albert Einstein
Sorry to be pedantic Geoff but it’s not GRA it’s ‘self id’
I don’t know where she stole that from possibly Tranada.
She is so devoid of any policies she just trawls around seeing what other countries are doing and steals their ideas.
It was the same with ‘Me Too’ she saw there was a ‘Me Too’ movement in the US (mainly in the movie industry) and she decided we must have a ‘Me Too’ movement too so she had to start inventing one getting women to lie & turning ridiculous incidents into sex crimes.
Remember this
link to archive.ph
Aamer Anwar made the claims after allegations of inappropriate behaviour emerged about women MPs being harassed at Westminster.
He told the Sunday Herald he had spoken to “a number of women” over the last two years about their treatment by men at Holyrood.
He said: “It’s a catalogue of sexual harassment, stalking, social media abuse, sexual innuendos, verbal sexual abuse, touching, sexual assaults, requests for sex, cover-up, isolation and bullying.”
Very strange that we didn’t hear any more about this catalogue of sexual harassment.
” Big push”. Oh well, I suppose he has to say these sort of things because of who he is.But does he actually believe it, or is he living in denial? I’m starting to think that maybe there’s many in the SNP, right to the top, that are actually living in some sort of convenient denial about indyref2, and the party’s continual avoidance of independence. Maybe it’s their way of dealing with their inability/ failure to deliver. Just keep kicking the can down the road, and finding excuses.
Breeks (redolent of Oor Wullie lol!)
Hats off to you man, 2 tours de force posts at 10:03 and 10:44
And Ellis’s response at 10:08 might have carried more weight if the betrayer in chief had actually used that mandate and been shot down – shades of her betrayal of Martin Keatings and the subsequent farce of the Pretendy Supreme Court last week
Totally agree Geoff.
The voters in Scotland are going to be ‘Conned Again, Watson’
Johnny says:
7 December, 2022 at 4:38 pm
Highly selective time framing from Ross also.
“+10% since 2014”?
“-4% since 2016” might be almost as accurate.
———————————————————–
Are you suggesting he may just be a merchant of fake propaganda ?
James Che says:7 December, 2022 at 5:23 pm
Rev stu,
OT but serious for England ( if) true,
Is Oxford Council to be the first to TRIAL restrictions zones in England on peoples travelling, under climate change,
Will these Zones increase ?
If it is maybe you had better move back to Scotland before you get stuck.
——————————————————
FFS James from whose Blog did you read that or did it come
straight from the illuminati themselves ? Jeez.
PacMan says:7 December, 2022 at 9:29 pm
Ottomanboi says: 7 December, 2022 at 7:04 pm
Stephen FLYNN…HofC today.
«Far be it from me to offer advice to a near billionaire, but he is going to have to up his game. Here is why: in the last 15 minutes, a poll has landed showing that support for Scottish independence has now hit 56% and support for the Scottish National party sits north of 50%. In that context, does the Prime Minister consider that increasing energy bills for households in energy-rich Scotland by a further £500 will cause those poll numbers to rise or fall?»
Same tired old «banter» from the newbie.
It’s going down a treat with the clapping seals over at WGD. Some are easily amused I guess…
———————————————–
But do you think they will want Ian Blackford back any time soon ? He still appears to have a very high opinion of his own abilities despite his own choice to resign to avoid an embarrassing defeat. Deluded i’d say link to msn.com
Ruby 11.50pm
Sturgeon is “grooming” Scottish voters, like any predator does.
I’ve been wondering at latest SNP shuffle… meet the new boss, same as the old one/but Nikla dissaproves, yeah, what a rebel.
Coupled with opinion polls showing over 50% support for Indy. Yeah.
Today, Philipa Whitford made a telling question at PMQ time, with a strong emphasis on the word ‘believe’. Does the PM believe blah, blah, Scotland is a Colony, etc, etc.
The PM can believe anything he wants. What matters is the legal standing. Philipa gave him an out.
If the Polls are accurate, and not being massaged to shore up Nikla… then we can expect a GE soon.
The ‘theme’ will be that the SNP have got their mojo back, and there might also be a leadership change.. if Nikla gets GRR through before Xmas. So, not just the nuSNP, but the nu, nu SNP with added Kit Kats. And look at the polls.
Of course a new leader will need time to get established, won’t want to rush things… and thereafter will ‘have a plan, a secret plan, won’t want to show his hand, or frighten the horses’.
It reeks of the Britnat establishment, playing their game as always.
If you own all the guards, and they are all on your team, there is only the appearance of change.
Ian Blackford airing his dirty laundry in public on the Jeremy Kyle show:
“I could have seen this off, I believe I would have won if I’d put myself forward.”
He’s been dragged off the SNP front bench against his will by the sounds of things.
Lol.
This guy is worth a read he also exposes what sturgeon is doing to privatise our resources
link to jonathonshafi.substack.com
Twathater. Re privatisation. From leaks it has now been acknowledged that the NHS in Scotland has been discussing privatisation of the NHS.
When challenged Sturgeon did not deny the privatisation discussions saying simply that it’s a democracy and the NHS is free to discuss privatisation proposals.
So, make of that as you will. A two tier service where people who can afford pay for their fast lane treatment and a ghetto slow lane for those who cannot pay.
Not difficult to see where this is going. Especially with the trade deal with the US and the UK imposed internal market bill. Corporate free market US style healthcare.
And that of course is at the heart of the neo Liberal capitalist clique at the heart of the SNP. Benny Higgins, Charlotte Street Partners and the others.
Sad fact is that for most of the disengaged electorate they truly couldn’t care less if the NHS disappeared. They are the same type of people who currently don’t seem to care about heating crisis.
Ah well I wish them well with that to buy all the heating they need, and in the future buy all the healthcare they need.
Geoff Anderson at 1111pm, and Breeks above,
I cannot agree more. If Sturgeon was a competent politician, never mind ‘talented’, Scotland would indeed be independent. Pro indy majority in Holyrood, and a pro indy majority at Westminster, is all you need. She has sat and done nothing towards independence for eight years. Instead she has busied herself tweeting about her fav books and working on the stupidest piece of legislation in UK history, the GRA bill.
And let’s be clear, the Tories, Labour and all the other unionist reprobates in Holyrood, are all just sitting quietly biding their time, until the utter clowns in the SNP pass the GRA bill. Then, and only then will Sturgeon find out just how much that will be used by ALL unionists AND WESTMINSTER to utterly eviscerate the SNP come the next election. SNP MSP’s should heed the warnings (but they won’t, because to a person, they are shameless, greedy cowards on the SNP gravy train). Unionists like Labour, are playing along, but as soon as the legislation is passed they will turn on Sturgeon and her gender obsessed pals.
THAT is not the action of a ‘talented’ politician.
With her current clear democratic independent mandate she should just act, then it forces Westminster to block things. That is how it is done. Asking permission just makes her look weak, and Westminster literally feeds on the weak.
WE could be independent by late Spring next year, by a fully legitimate and do-able route, by having a Scottish parliament election, but Sturgeon simply will not ever act on any mandate she is handed. Independence is quite literally there for the taking, right now, today, and she does f***ing NOTHING! She wants to wait another two years, on top of the eight she has squandered. She is a coward, a fraud, and an out and out tractor to the independence cause.
As regards the constitution, we should use ANY and EVERY possible route to pursue independence. So, I simply cannot understand folk who say they are pro indy, yet belittle the efforts of one group or another to achieve it. If Salvo, or anybody else gets us independence, so be it. Attack Westminster on MANY fronts, create a genuine threat to their undemocratic colonial rule.
The Scottish claim of right is real, the Scottish consitution is real, the terms of the treaty of union are real. Just because England ignores it, does not alter that reality and those hard facts. We should use ANY means to get us out from under England’s neo-fascist, undemocratic, colonial jackboot. We should not tolerate one more day, not one second, of England’s abusive and criminal theft of our wealth, land and assets.
@ Breeks says:7 December, 2022 at 10:44 pm
an existential Constitutional crisis which the Treaty of Union could not have survived, and which would have kept an Independent Scotland in Europe
Swap would have for could have and you might have a good point.
But as it stands, your flat assertion that iScotland would have remained in the EU on the same advantageous terms and conditions that the UK enjoyed is just fact-free wishful thinking.
For starters, the UK is a political and economic entity 10 times iScotland’s size. That provides a certain amount of negotiating clout in the real world.
It is just exactly the same fact-free, wishful thinking that would have us believe that post-Indy, iScotland will catapult back into the EU and it will be just as if we had never left.
When even a moment’s thought suggests it will be significantly different, and worse. The special deals we enjoyed as part of the UK won’t be on the table. Negotiations will have to start from scratch. The EU is changing, and its constituent parts are wrestling with their own, multiple problems. There are going to be no handouts to iScotland.
@ Ruby says:7 December, 2022 at 11:33 pm
she stole that from possibly Tranada
Good one!
I have family in Tranada. That joke is going on the Xmas cards.
@ TGC says:7 December, 2022 at 9:35 pm
None of you know for sure what she plans or how she intends to play it
And you think that’s good?
FFS, this is politics, not boxing, where telegraphing your next punch gets you flattened.
Plenty of voters look at somebody who has nothing to say and see somebody who has nothing to say.
They don’t see a genius who dare not speak a word of her plans, strategy, tactics or goal because “bad people” will spoke her wheel if fore-warned.
@ Willie says:8 December, 2022 at 5:45 am
A two tier service where people who can afford pay for their fast lane treatment and a ghetto slow lane for those who cannot pay
Certainly one way to look at it.
I prefer to see it this way:
“A two tier service where people who can afford pay twice, once through their taxes (for which they receive nothing) and the second time for their fast lane private treatment, and a ghetto slow lane for those who only pay through their taxes”
You get my point, I hope.
Increasingly, in both Scotland and the UK, we are taxed for services that are largely withering on the vine, and those who can afford it then go and pay a second time to get the services they really need.
Straight out of the ‘Better Together’ handbook.
Ruby at 1041pm,
Sadly, I think you are correct. To the SNP, winning elections is more important than actually delivering independence.
I do think, as many are pointing out, the indy movement will need to act above and beyond the likes of the SNP and Sturgeon. Independence is there for the taking, via a scot parliamentary election, but the SNP want to just carry on doing nothing instead for the next two years. No sense of urgency, no fire in their bellies about ending English colonial rule of Scotland.
The SNP are at best tepid, weak- willed and simply not prepared to take the greatest chance at Scottish independence in recent years. It is there for the taking.
@John Main 8.02 am
When even a moment’s thought suggests it will be significantly different, and worse. The special deals we enjoyed as part of the UK won’t be on the table …
That’s the same kind of assertion and wishful thinking dressed up as fact you’ve just been accusing others of though John. You’re right that the situation will be different than the expectations and calculus of 2014, but you can’t demonstrate that an independent Scotland in the near future would be worse off by joining the EU than by staying outside it, whatever trading relationship it had as a non member of the EU’s, or with RUK.
The negative impact of brexit on our current economic position and trade – however much you may dislike the fact – is unarguable. Just as Remainers predicted, brexit has been an act of economic self harm on a huge scale. The professed benefits of brexit were always illusory, and the economic chickens are now coming home to roost, accentuated by the war and pandemic.
Of course some brexiteers are happy to admit that brexit has made us worse off because they insist the benefits of regained sovereignty and future freedom of action outweigh both the economic and political costs. I think they’re wrong, but it’s not something that can be objectively proven now, anymore than I can objectively prove an independent Scotland will be better off than a Scotland which remains in the union, or than a convinced unionist can prove Scotland will be better off stating in the union.
I think most people – even some unionists horrified at the damage imposed by a hard brexit – would agree however that the past few years have irredeemably damaged the Project Fear arguments centring on the benefits of the political and economic stability of the status quo.
Ruby at 0834am,
Indeed Ruby. Their is a fair bit of ‘concern’ trollery goes on here. Pointless engaging with it.
I just wish unionists would be honest and tell us what is so good about Scotland being run by another country, whereby they take all our wealth and assets, then upon their whim, they give us a wee bit back, and tell us to be feckin grateful. Other countries just run their own affairs and elect their own government, but oil, energy, wealth and asset rich Scotland apparently is quite unique, and apparently NEEDS to be run by (and for) England.
Just what are the benefits of this so-called ‘union’ with England???
If it was a vote of 45% in 2014 and now a poll of 56%
Isnt that a +24% increase since 2014?
But mind.. Im no strategist
In 2014 we didn’t know anything about what an iScotland’s position in the EU would be simple because the UK Government refused to ask the EC for a definitive answer. That makes me suspect that the terms & conditions would have been a lot more advantageous than the UK Gov would have liked.
If the UK’s terms & conditions were so bloody advantageous why did England decide to pull the whole of the UK out of the EU?
Why on earth are you spamming the forum with post about how awful the EU is? Trying to put people off voting YES?
In 2014 it was the only way to remain in the EU is to vote NO. Now it’s you don’t want to be in the EU it’s really awful.
Can we expect Andy Ellis to spam the forum with replies to your spam about the EU?
@Ruby says:8 December, 2022 at 8:34 am
Straight out of the ‘Better Together’ handbook
Do try to keep up, Ruby.
Even those unrepentant Remainers who continue to press for the UK to get back into the EU accept that if the UK does so, it won’t be on such good terms and conditions as before.
Still, every day a school day. If you have a link to the golden EU membership T’s and C’s already offered to iScotland, do post it.
Until that happy day, see Starmer’s recent “mood music” as he attempts to say the unthinkable without saying it.
The UK rejoining the EU, but on “worse together” terms than before may become a defining battleground of the next UK GE. The MSM will go for that, because EU membership is for them an ideological goal as much as anything.
Just as it is with many on here, and within the wider Scottish electorate. I expect many Scots voters to agree with the MSM that it’s Starmer’s turn.
And that, of course, will stymie any attempt to make that GE a plebiscite on Indy.
Desimond at 0851pm,
Yes but the point is, it could be 80%, and it would not make one jot of difference, since Sturgeon will not do anything. We will NEVER get independence playing by England’s rules. That really is the issue.
@ Robert Louis says:8 December, 2022 at 8:47 am
Do you even comprehend the possibility that Scotland can be both an independent country and not in the EU?
Why is that such a fucking impossible cognitive leap for so many?
Too wee? Too poor?
Too cringingly colonised?
I want an independent Scotland, run by Scots, in Scotland, accountable and voted into power by Scots, working solely for the benefit of the Scots and Scotland.
The vast majority of countries in the world run their own affairs, without pooling their sovereignty with other countries.
Is it such a big, fucking ask, that after 300+ years of seeing the downsides of pooling sovereignty, with decisions affecting Scots taken in a foreign country, an independent Scotland might actually try to stand on its own feet?
Just for a few years, at least? We could maybes give it a fucking try!
@ Ruby says:
Trying to put people off voting YES?
Relax, Ruby. You’ve got that one covered.
See also my post above.
It’s possible to be an independent country, and not in the EU. Hell, even Scotland could do it.
Dare to dream, Ruby.
An independent Scotland, run by Scots, in Scotland, accountable and voted into power by Scots, working solely for the benefit of the Scots and Scotland.
Dare to dream.
What’s with all this spamming about the EU. The above is just he same as you’ve said to John Main numerous times before.
Maybe time to report him to Stu.
ROBERT LOUIS
«Rules» in common with «law» are ad hoc creations of those who rule.
They may be changed accordingly to suit conditions.
There is no excuse for this «impasse».
The pedestrian imagination indeed.
Robert Louis says:
8 December, 2022 at 8:57 am
Desimond at 0851pm,
Yes but the point is, it could be 80%, and it would not make one jot of difference, since Sturgeon will not do anything. We will NEVER get independence playing by England’s rules. That really is the issue…
Agreed.
Desmond, when the polls say 56% without even trying, why in the name of all things holy, are they “not” trying? They’ve been “not” trying for eight long years.
Sturgeon has even conceded that a referendum of sovereign Scottish Citizens is just “advisory”, so we have the First Minister of Scotland of all people, divorcing a Scottish popular democratic mandate from Scottish popular sovereignty, and telling Westminster it’s fine for them to ignore the vote… And she still couldn’t win their consent to hold one.
Not lightly do I call Sturgeon Gauleiter. She is a menace to Scotland’s Rights, democracy and Scotland’s Claim of Right; the very things she’s in office to serve and uphold.
Sturgeon is actually the living embodiment of everything the Claim of Right and Declaration of Arbroath sought to protect Scotland from, and dare I say it, perhaps even more than the Union itself.
JOHN MAIN
Pooling sovereignty is ok as long as those pooled retain oversight of the pool.
Pooling sovereignty as a tool of big power led, neo imperialist Globalism, which contemporary international relationships seem to be about, is the modern Siren luring to destruction nations, democracies, principles and autonomy.
Scots have much experience of the latter in all its gross manifestations.
Was Flynn/Black any use at PMQs.
Have to say they look like a couple of jakies dressed up for their day in court.
Aw naw snaw!
Excellent dinner gong!
Scot Finlayson says: 8 December, 2022 at 9:48 am
As I said from the previous post, Flynn looks like Gru from Despicable Me movies.
As to Black, she wants to dress that breaks gender conventions. That’s fair enough but get clothes that fits that style but also looks good on her.
This ‘yooth rebel’ image that the SNP apologists are trying to portray that these two individuals represent the demographic that is going to vote for independence is embarrassing.
Young people nowadays can’t get permanent employment or enough weekly working hours to make up a decent wage. Are they seriously going to relate to a couple of plonkers on TV with no dress sense and raking in plenty money that they can dream of doing?
The vast majority of countries run their own affairs without pooling their sovereignty…. blah, blah, blah
Did God create countries? No. They are manmade.
With very few exceptions, nearly all are examples of pooled sovereignty, composed of collections of principalities, states, kingdoms, etc.
The pooling in most cases only happened in the last couple of hundred years or so. Maybe that’s why the bible doesn’t mention them, just as it doesn’t mention dinosaurs.
Thus, countries themselves demonstrate the benefits of pooling. For most, at least, it’s been highly beneficial, especially in economic terms but also in terms of stability and prosperity. Germany, for example, evolved out of the logic of pooling for economic purposes, logic that was demonstrated and learned with the Zollverein.
None of the above is an argument for pooling, not pooling, or unpooling. If I’m arguing anything, I’m arguing against simple generalisations and for the acknowledgment of simple historical facts.
That’s all. For now.
I see Pete Wishart [a supposedly pro independence MP, m’lud] has resigned from the SNP front bench in Westminster. This Flynn chiel must be doing something right.
Aye. Slippers insnae happy. Bemused he is… as to why Flynn wanted to take the helm…
Pete’s resignation letter:
link to m.facebook.com
The pleasures of the back bench sound comfortable enough, even if his letter could have been inspired by the Hues Corporation/
Pete ‘Cosy Feet’ Wishart resigns from front bench: link to tinyurl.com
The proper link to the ‘Cosy Feet’ resignation from front bench:
link to tinyurl.com
A quote from the link below…
“But independence has never been delivered because if they were ever to deliver independence, they wouldn’t be able to use the same argument at the next election. Why would Sturgeon discard a winning argument. After all, if you don’t vote for the SNP to deliver independence, who will you vote for? Failure to deliver was SNP strategy for continuing electoral success.
Doesn’t that remind you of the Labour Party in Scotland. At every election, Labour promised to improve conditions for working families and the less well off, but they never delivered, because if they did, they wouldn’t be able to use the same promise in the next election, and the one after that. Failure to deliver was Labour strategy for continuing electoral success.”
link to angryweegie.wordpress.com
“Pete Wishart was first elected to Westminster in 2001, and has held a variety of front bench posts, most recently serving as the group’s Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) spokesman.”
That says all we need to know. Since 2001 and he has a nerve to try and claim in the rest of the article being partly responsible for getting ‘Yes’ to the heady-heights of………wait for it….51%. Yip! You read that right. 51% LOL!
He must have been thinking of how much his largesse has increased in that period of 21-years. He is the SNP’s Murdo Fraser right enough.
Stoker @ 11.31am
Now, now, be fair. Weak Pishfart may indeed be “The SNP’s Murdo Fraser”, however – unlike The Queen’s XI’s lead cheer-leader, the pianist has convinced enough people to vote for him to be allowed up to the trough. Murdo relies on being well in with his party’s high heid yins for his seat on the gravy train.
I’m arguing against simple generalisations and for the acknowledgment of simple historical facts.
That’s all. For now.
Here’s hoping your powers of analysis in this regard are greater than your powers of prediction huh Hatuey?
How are those Chinese preparations for the invasion of Taiwan coming along? Presumably there’s loads of evidence on the ground of the Chinese armed forces and civil authorities preparing for the conflict.
16 days and counting until “T-Day”.
The SNP Westminster contingent really are all over the place aren’t they? We had Hosie insisting yesterday there was no split, then only hours later Wishart telling everyone he was bemused that Flynn felt he would be any better a leader than Blackford, and even more astonishingly saying:
We are always better when we work together, fully support our government and stand side by side with all colleagues regardless of which parliament they serve.
I doubt Joanna Cherry thinks most of the misogynistic enablers in the current SNP stood side by side with her when she was being monstered by the TRA extremists in the party and elsewhere.
How does one get off moderation? Asking for a friend.
“How does one get off moderation? Asking for a friend.”
One behaves oneself for a while.
Andy Ellis says:
8 December, 2022 at 11:57 am
The SNP Westminster contingent really are all over the place aren’t they? We had Hosie insisting yesterday there was no split, then only hours later Wishart telling everyone he was bemused that Flynn felt he would be any better a leader than Blackford, and even more astonishingly saying:
We are always better when we work together, fully support our government and stand side by side with all colleagues regardless of which parliament they serve.
I doubt Joanna Cherry thinks most of the misogynistic enablers in the current SNP stood side by side with her when she was being monstered by the TRA extremists in the party and elsewhere.
————————————————————-
I wonder how long this will take to catch up with the new WM leader while many would agree with His behaviour many more don’t and is this really whats expected from a Nationalist WM “Leader” ? link to flipboard.com
Brian Doonthetoon says:8 December, 2022 at 11:26 am
A quote from the link below…
Doesn’t that remind you of the Labour Party in Scotland. At every election, Labour promised to improve conditions for working families and the less well off, but they never delivered, because if they did, they wouldn’t be able to use the same promise in the next election, and the one after that. Failure to deliver was Labour strategy for continuing electoral success.”
——————————————————–
True but the SNP have been in power more than 15 years and haven’t managed to achieve that either and that’s with the extra Fiscal Transfers they get at this time instead of losing those after Indy , perhaps its not as easy thing to achieve as it sounds ? This isn’t a good look in the SNP’s own Stronghold link to glasgowworld.com
link to twitter.com
They say a picture paints a thousand words…
Couldn’t help but smile a kind smile seeing Joanna Cherry’s face… speaks volumes I think. She could have been been leader, but looking around, a leader of what exactly? Hardly an abundance of talent to work with.
Strangely reassured to see Smith, “Norman No-mates” at the back, and Cosy Feet shoved to the back too. Yesterday’s news in both cases,…I hope.
I have a deep mistrust for Mhairi Black, both in judgement and affiliations to the “sect” . But I dunno. I mean “IF” you’re hoping to see the back of Sturgeon and usher in a regime change in Holyrood, then picking Black as your deputy might actually be quite a shrewd move; a tourniquet for trouble from certain quarters perhaps.
There’s a line in 1984 De Laurentiis version of Dune, a favourite film of mine, where Gurney Halleck says, “Against my better judgement, I like this Duke”. I’m not there yet with Flynn, but so much depends on what he does next, and whether the “old guard” cooperate or undermine him.
But Flynn I simply do not know. If he’s the best of a bad lot, can he do anything constructive, or is the SNP simply a write off?
He might surprise us all and prove to be the vital spark that’s been sadly missing. Is it so foolish to hope?
To get another movie quote in, Maximus in Gladiator…. “We will know soon enough”.
Is this you really, really following in the style of Stu.
This way of posting is really, really annoying because you don’t know who has made the quote. I presume ‘bold’ in your posts indicates that it’s a quote.
Anyone reading the above which is a direct quote from your post will think it’s your words. Sure I could add bold but then I use bold as emphasis or at least I used to until some readers informed me that it made the text difficult to read.
Andy Ellis says:
8 December, 2022 at 11:57 am
We are always better when we work together, fully support our government and stand side by side with all colleagues regardless of which parliament they serve.
Better Together Andy!
Other way to look at that photo might be Blackadder sighting the whites of enemy eyes (or even mishearing the thought of entertaining Melchid’s big pusch from behind)
This in turn, and almost in context, raises the constitutional question* as to who, after setting aside Brown, Gove, Trump etc, the Sec of state for Scotland now recognises – from Flynn, Sturgeon, or even himself – as the most powerful Scottish politician
The answer to which renders Wishart’s question about why now (with 56% in favour despite seasonal flu and other nonceness) as a most excellent one indeed. One which can be easily answered within 3 months were he to go the whole hog and call a by election.
In which case, standing as a true independent armed with a personal manifesto to declare independence (ie following a ballot of the Scottish constituencies) consistent with the one he first stood on, certain victory would undoubtedly correct whatever answer Jack was able to muster on his constitutional dilemma (all whilst calling any bluff from potential challengers to Wishart’s increasingly well deserved rockstar status 🙂 )
*An issue the new deputy has recently been keen to explore:
link to twitter.com
Maybe Wishart wasn’t consulted because he’s part of the bigger problem that Flynn is trying to address. Or maybe he’s just seen as irrelevant? He looks like he’s cut his nose off so much though I wouldn’t be surprised if he announced later he’s joined Alba!!
@Joe
I wonder how long this will take to catch up with the new WM leader while many would agree with His behaviour many more don’t and is this really whats expected from a Nationalist WM “Leader” ?
I doubt there will be as much mileage as you and the britnat MSM hope trying to paint any protest against Israel as prima facie evidence of anti semitism. It worked pretty well against Labour down south, and there were obviously issues with some on the fringes in Labour, but not reasonable person could believe Jeremy Corbyn was or is anti-semitic.
The opportunistic attempts of unionists in Aberdeen to paint legitimate protests as anti semitic has to be seen in the context of people who are happily planning to limit the right to protest and the right of workers to strike. Allegations of anti-semitism, much like allegations of transphobia in other contexts, are too often just a way of closing down dissent and othering political opponents.
@Brian Doonthetoon says:8 December, 2022 at 11:26 am
Doesn’t that remind you of the Labour Party in Scotland. At every election, Labour promised to improve conditions for working families and the less well off, but they never delivered
I recall for years believing (largely because the Big Issue believed it), that Labour was going to end homelessness in Scotland.
Oh well.
How many people remember that at the start of Covid, the Tories ended homelessness when they rounded up all the rough sleepers, for reasons of public health?
But only temporarily. Oh well again.
I fully expect Labour to be promising to end homelessness when they pitch for the WM GE in 2025.
That and HoL reform. Natch.
@John Main
You forgot Super Turbo “I can’t believe it’s not indy” Devo Max Platinum Excel, guaranteed with a front page splash on the Daily Rangers with a faux parchment document signed by Gordon Brown and all the Scottish unionist party leaders in their own blood. 🙂
@ Andy Ellis says:8 December, 2022 at 8:40 am
Thanks for your response.
I won’t reply in detail, as Ruby points out, we are repeating ourselves.
Still, some thoughts.
I thought even you had softened on the full EU membership position, being happy with EFTA or whatever. Sounds fine to me, subject to knowing the T’s and C’s, and giving Scots a democratic vote. I can recall a few regulars on here with the same view.
Sure, Brexit came with costs. Bang on enough about that and undecided voters may come round to the view that Indy will come with costs too.
Do you recall how today’s spat started? I took issue with Breeks’ flat assertion that iScotland would be in the EU, preferring myself the more nuanced could be in the EU. Do you have a view on that? IMO, saying that you don’t know is tantamount to saying could, so the question demands a binary response.
So, to summarise for about the hundredth time. I want Indy. If iScotland is to be in the EU, or EFTA, I want it done openly and with democratic decision making. I don’t want a “twofer”: vote Indy and get EU membership thrown in.
So that is a minority position? So fucking what. It’s a logical and principled position, and that’s good enough for me.
I also like to think it’s a position sympathetic to 300+ years of Scots who have wanted to set their own destinies. They would have laughed to scorn the idea that once free of the union, key decisions affecting sovereign Scots would ever be taken by committees in a foreign country.
I think we owe it to them to at least give it a try. But to repeat, if the majority of Scots vote for the easy option, them’s the democratic breaks.
No reason to allow these Scots an easy ride though!
@John Main
I actually agree with you WRT to EFTA or a Norwegian style deal, and think that could certainly be sold as the best, or at a minimum “least worst” option. I’ve no particular axe to grind on full fat EU membership, particularly after the way the EU treated the Greeks during the financial crisis, their cowardice in the face of Spanish aggression towards the Catalan independence movement and their failure to face down anti-democratic over-reach by regressive far right governments in Hungary and Poland.
My view FWIW is that an independent Scotland will eventually become a full member, even if it takes longer than some enthusiasts hope. It won’t be automatic, because we’re now outside the EU and will have to reapply, even if we get fast tracked. It’s going to take at least a couple of years. The Finns did it in 24 months from ground zero I seem to recall.
I very much doubt there will be free or easy rides for either side, but the smart money has to be on Scotland becoming a full member within say 5 years of indy at most.
link to parliamentlive.tv
I’ll post the link without saying if it is or isn’t worth watch.
Give it a wee scan.
I watched some of it.
I was puzzled by why Alistair Jack wanted to emphasis number of people who claimed to not want a referendum.
If polls state for example that 56% want independence then surely it would follow that 56% want a referendum.
Surely there is more reason to have a referendum now than there was in 2014 when there weren’t all these rules about a ‘sustained majority’ or some such shit!
Now they want to emphasis that we are in a voluntary union which is quite funny. I heard ‘voluntary union’ quite a few times.
Daisy Walker @1:38am
I wish you hadn’t written that – definitely one for “once you see it, you can’t unsee it”.
I agree there will be a General Election soon. Definitely not in two years time. You’re also right on the GRA getting through and Nicola deciding to move on.
So the deckchairs are being rearranged, but wait, we’re still on the SS Titanic. I wonder what they are hoping to achieve? That we’ll all forget about that independence thing?
There should be plenty of signs as to whether this is the path we are on. A surprise decision from Blackford or Wishart not to stand at the next election perhaps – a sign there is still good in their worthless carcasses and that even they can see where this is heading.
Interesting times.
Tut! Who asked that question for a ‘friend?’
Can you not just have two accounts going at the same time and when one is on the naughty step you just use the other one?
Would it not be more honest if the above questions was
‘When will my other account be taken off moderation?
If I were the ‘Wings Nanny’ I would put them on the naughty step but I would also name and shame them.
Ah it was you who asked the question.
What do you mean by ‘off moderation’
Are you referring to the ‘naughty step’ where you have to stay until you are a good boy or are you referring to one of your posts that have gone into moderation because you used a banned word that triggered the totally mad autobot?
Have you been put on the ‘naughty step’?
Do you get an email advising you that you are being closely watched?
FYI, EFTA implies freedom of movement — I.e. citizens of all member states being able to travel and work freely, etc., across the whole European Economic Area.
I would have thought that might be a sticking point for most of the Brexit supporters I’m familiar with.
@ Ruby I watched that clip of SAC for all of 2 min because that’s all I could stand watching that cringing sycophantic knee bending crawler weak pishfart, I honestly could feel the revulsion bile rising as he crawled on his knees to jack
I have a question how could the people of Perth vote for this ("Quizmaster" - Ed) not only once but for 21 years
Will anyone miss Wishart?
I can hear the Yoon machine Guns going rat tat tat tat even as the artillery explodes over ma poor heid. How many of us will that Yoon fink Colquhoun sacrifice on his Brit Nat Blood drinking and flesh eating Altar.