Taking the wheel
Some years ago, a friend of mine was on a car journey along the motorway, with their brother driving. The night before there had been a storm and high winds. The bad weather had continued into the morning before easing, but the wind was still strong.
They were chatting in the car and as they continued to chat, my friend noticed that further along, a motorway stanchion that holds the lights had fallen across their path. It was blocking two of the three lanes, including the one that they were on. Despite that, they continued to chat as if it wasn’t there.
The obstacle drew nearer and nearer. Finally my friend said to his brother, “Aren’t you going to drive round that light?” His brother swerved and made it into the unblocked lane with feet to spare.
I asked my friend why they hadn’t swerved sooner. “Neither of us could believe it was there”, he said.
I’ve thought a lot about that incident in the past few months. There’s an air of disbelief about the direction in which the UK is headed. Nobody can quite believe what they’re seeing as we watch the Bullingdon Club steadily go about their business of smashing up the country.
There’s the pantomime villain characters, each with their own gimmicks; Boris with the mussed-up hair, Jacob Rees Mogg with the big stovepipe hat, Michael Gove with the repertoire of face-pulls (he was an actor, you know). There is something grotesque and laughable about it all. Except that it’s not funny. And just because they’re acting, doesn’t mean that they don’t know what they’re doing.
Scotland is essential to the UK’s survival. The value of the oil and gas resources in Scotland allows Britain to borrow money and keep its AAA rating up. Without the £1.6 trillion collateral value of these assets, what is already a very grim picture would become even grimmer for the UK as it would struggle without this as backing. Then there’s fisheries, energy potential and the strategic importance of both Faslane and Scapa Flow, Europe’s back door into the Atlantic.
Scotland is one of the few big bargaining chips – perhaps the only one – that the UK has with Europe. So there is no way that they want to lose Scotland in a UK breakup.
It’s important to understand this, to understand why particular things have been put in place. Let’s go through them.
Firstly, the souping-up of the Scottish Office. This has been going on for two years, where the number of staff has been considerably increased.
Secondly, the promotion of Ruth Davidson to both the Privy Council and to the Lords. What her future role is going to be we can only guess, but at the tender age of 41 she is certainly not ready to retire yet.
Thirdly, the continuance, with the minimum of scrutiny and debate, of the Coronavirus Act. We suspect this might have started out in life as a draft for a Brexit bill and the contingencies that might arise from it. They cover much of the same ground – curfews, enhanced powers of arrest and detainment, ability to disperse assemblies and crowds, interruptions to food supply lines, etc This was waved through after 90 minutes’ debate at Westminster. It also includes powers to postpone elections.
Fourthly, the Internal Market bill. As has rightly and extensively been identified, it is a massive power grab on devolution.
Finally – and this may or may not be connected with future events – the enshrinement of the ability of the security services to ignore the law of the land. We hope it’s a total coincidence that this has happened as political discontent rises in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We fear it’s not.
Dear reader, Westminster has got its ducks in a row. It has set up the governmental structure to take control from Holyrood. It has put in place the contingency measures to deal with unrest/riots that might follow. It has removed the security services’ obligations to the law of the land, which will enable the said services to pursue political organisations that might organise opposition in any manner they please. They have toppled that motorway stanchion into the path of our escape from the UK and we are hurtling towards it at 100 miles per hour
Which brings us to those at the wheel, at least for the time being; the SNP and the Greens. In the face of this impending disaster, what avoiding action is being taken?
None.
We don’t like to say it. For a long time we too, believed that they were going to turn the wheel at the last minute and go screeching round that obstacle. However, as Brexit came closer and nothing had happened, that was when we formed the ISP. We had to do something. And do you know what? Yes, we’re small. Yes, we’re unknowns. Yes, we are ordinary grassroots supporters. And maybe we weren’t the best people to do this. But somebody had to do something. Because the drivers aren’t listening.
Consider the powers that MSPs possess. They have access to the Civil Service who can help them draft bills. They could have raised a court action to establish once and for all the Scottish Parliament’s powers (or lack of) over a referendum, instead of obstructing Martin Keatings’ one. They could already have referendum legislation in place, ready to go at a moment’s notice. They could make the next Holyrood election a plebiscite. They could at least have a plan for when Boris Johnson says no again, or debate it at conference this month rather than planning a casual relaxed chat about it at some unspecified point in future.
The SNP have been in power for 13 years, including half a decade since the Brexit vote. They could certainly have got their ducks in a row by now, just as Boris has. But none of that has happened.
Over the past few months we’ve continually said the same thing. We’ll say it one more time. We are running out of time. (“We” being the independence movement.) We cannot afford to give the indy parties in power “one more chance”, effectively another five years in which to dither and delay and then plead for another last chance.
We have to shout in their ear and threaten to take the wheel if they don’t act. Because we’re about to crash right into the trap that Boris Johnson and others have spent the last two years setting up.
The ISP have taken lots of brickbats and questioning of our motives. We’ve been accused of being snake-oil salesmen and amateurs. We’re not overly concerned what people call us – sticks and stones and all that – but what we are concerned about is that there are those who still believe that that trap isn’t there, despite all the evidence in plain sight. Like that motorway stanchion, it can’t be there, because the driver continues to head towards it remorselessly.
But it is there. And we, the grassroots, the amateurs, the Yes groups, the bloggers, the marchers – somehow have to take control of that wheel before we crash.
.
Julie McAnulty is Deputy Leader of the Independence for Scotland Party.
If mrs murrell doesn’t call a definite indyref2 date by 30.11.20 then you will have me as a new member.
I have had more than enough.
Bang on target Julie. Thank you.
It may already be too late Julie. There may not even be Holyrokd elections. Then it is game ,set and match to Boris.
People will denounce this as nonsense, but what you have clearly pointed out is that the UK is now even more in debt and has greater reason to hang on to all forms of collateral.
That means Scotland and it’s resoufces are even more essential for England’s survival financially.
Ask yourself this. Would Boris trample over objections by the Scottish public for denying Democracy in order to keep England financially viable?
The answer should decide how urgently we require action.
What a great article and one which no one with half a brain could argue with, it’s plain to see exactly where we are headed and my one wish is that the ISP or indeed a party where all these great minds collectively get together and stand candidates in every constituency and list seats, we cannot allow this current administration to win power again in 2021, if we fail we’ve lost.
About sums it up.
Already left the SNP and joined ISP. Who knows even IF there is an election next year, as Julie has pointed out (and as I have believed for a long time) WM can and probably will suspend Holyrood if things continue to look bad for it in the immediate aftermath of actual Brexit next year.
A question I asked while I was still in the SNP was; IF WM use the contingencies they have to suspend Holyrood “Temporarily” of course, due to the uncertainty over Brexit (and now add to that CV19), what will you DO?
Answers came there none – instead I am blocked by several SNP MPs.
Yes, the ISP is new; Yes we have no political history; Yes we have no well known characters (as yet); Yes we are disdained by the SNP1&2 brigade; Yes the MSM think nothing of us (yet); Yes we have more policies than simply Independence (e.g. opposition to the headlong rush to amend the GRA without proper thought, no to the Hate Bill for similar reasons); Yes it will be hard to break through.
But, if no-one does anything, we WILL crash. Time has almost run out. It’s 1 minute to midnight, what are YOU going to do next?
I will switch parties by 2021, we’ll said Julie
Wanted by disappointed fundamentalist – political party answering to at least the following description;
Has a written constitution?
Has rules governing the following –
All members agree to abide by the Constitution
Parliamentarians, their staff, Party office bearers and Party employees are fully paid up members of the party
Acceptance of the sovereignty of the Scottish people
An unambiguous commitment to independence
Inclusion of policies considered fundamental in an independent Scotland eg; adoption of a written constitution; removal of all WMDs within three years of independence; an end to driven grouse shooting within a similar period; etc
A statement describing how the party intends to obtain independence
A statement describing how progress towards independence will be monitored and publicised
Democratic participation in party business and policy-making by all members
Regular party meetings and annual conferences open to all members
Procedures for electing the party leader
Procedures for removing the party leader
Procedures for regular (three yearly?) elections or re-elections of the party leader
Job titles, job descriptions and remuneration of all party employees
Job titles, job descriptions and remuneration of office bearers
Annual publication of financial statements including all payments to employees
Any others thought necessary to protect Scottish interests
I don’t want to be conned again because of a blind belief in the integrity of those claiming to be independence seekers.
‘Corrupt politicians give the other ten percent a bad name.’ Henry Kissinger
spot on – but there is little time left tohave the ducks in a row and strategies to counter the britnat attacks.
unfortunately, the general population are going about their daily lives, totally oblivious to the impending disater.
like indyref1, they only switched on after the vote, realising what bastards the ‘better thegither’ mob were
sadly, the same will happen come Jan 1st when we are out of the EU & captured by the IMB
cos our loyal MSM ain’t gonna let them know beforehand
Couldn’t agree more with this but the solution is amiss.
I think it’s about time all these different pro-Indy groups got their act together and united around the one issue that they can all agree on. And that conglomerate of pro-Indy groups needs to be under the control of some sort of steering group so that coordinated action can be conducted.
Until that happens, we are fucked.
I’m talking about wings, common weal, rise, bella, auob, hope over fear, yes groups, everybody. They need to bury the hatchets and unite around the cause that unites them, putting aside all the crap that divides.
Again, until that happens you don’t have an independence movement. You have nothing – a bunch of people moaning on the sidelines.
Remember the Grimsby Fishing Port voting for Brexit,
Well now they are terrified about having EU tariffs put on their
Fish and port delays at the channel that can turn their fish into fertiliser.
Remember Sunderland’s demand for Brexit?
The EU has warned the UK it has less than 10 days left to secure a deal that will govern trade from next year.
Nissan said there must be agreement on a free-trade deal by next week if it is to be ratified in time for the end of the Brexit transition period.
“If it happens without any sustainable business case obviously it is not a question of Sunderland or not Sunderland, obviously our UK business will not be sustainable, that’s it,” Nissan’s chief operating officer Ashwani Gupta told Reuters.
Remember the EU ex pats living in the sun demanding Brexit?
Well good luck to them buying back their London home 10 years later
when their E11 medical cards become worthless.
Thank goodness for Westminster or all sorts of bad thing could happen to Scotland?
I’ll probably get some flack for what I’m about to say. I’m a dyed in the wool SNP supporter and I have felt offended by most of the comments on Wings. Having said that, I’m sick fed up with the lack of action by the SNP. I’m sick fed up with sections of the party, Lesley Evans and co., I’m fed up with Alex Salmond being kept out in the cold because of accusations and his accusers given protection and anonymity (I’m not clever enough to join the dots to find out who they are). But, I completely agree with Julie McAnulty’s article. I’m angry at the lack of fight shown by the SNP, there doesn’t appear to be a plan, A, B or C. I’m beginning to think that we’re having a repeat of 1707, a sell out by our politicians. I hope that I’m wrong and there is a swerve coming up soon.
And here it is, straight from the horses mouth…
link to twitter.com
Excellent and succinct article, Julie, which lists all the baby steps they have taken to control us for ever. By the time the Scottish lobster even dimly begins to realise what is happening with the warm water in the pot, it will already be too late.
Bob Mack: “It may already be too late Julie. There may not even be Holyrood elections. Then it is game,set and match to Boris.”
Bear in mind, Bob, that the SNP leadership has contingency plans to shelve the Holyrood elections anyway, citing possible Covid problems as a reason.
Fair makes you think, as The Sunday Post used to say…..
Motivating article and I’ll definitely be considering my options e.g. voting for or even actively helping ISP. Question for Rev though: are you (or do you think it’s possible in the future you will be) actively supporting/backing ISP?
[…] Wings Over Scotland Taking the wheel Some years ago, a friend of mine was on a car journey along the motorway, with their […]
Alas, one think they haven’t done is prime the other Member States in Europe about the likelihood of independence. That’s a big error. As the author points out, “Scotland is one of the few big bargaining chips – perhaps the only one – that the UK has with Europe. So there is no way that they want to lose Scotland in a UK breakup.”
The problem arises that the UK is negotiating Brexit with Scotland part of it. So things like, for example, fishing rights, will be part of that.
If and when Scotland does gain independence and seeks EU/EFTA membership, will the Member States want to rush back to renegotiate on things they thought were already agreed? I’m not so sure. If Spain or France gain advantageous access to fishing grounds, do you think they’ll want to give that back?
The Scottish government should have been laying the groundwork for this, so that an independence scenario was factored into the EU Brexit position. As far as I can tell, they haven’t. A few high-profile visits to major capitals is not enough; there is serious heavy lifting to be done.
So if indy does happen, don’t assume quite the hearty welcome we all think we’ll get. In politics, you need your allies in place early doors – we’ve taken our eye of the ball on this.
A great article Julie and I can only say how much I agree with all you say. I still hope we will only have one List Party and I hope we all see the sense of giving that party our second vote to create a real opposition to the SNP in Holyrood. The SNP need to change tack and see they must demand a Section 30 order in January/February with a 10 working day ‘grant or refuse’. On a refusal we MUST make the Election the defacto referendum. Plan B. Majority of pro Indy votes (or pro Indy MSPs) we move to dissolve the Union and start divorce negotiations.
Very astute observations Julie. Scares the hell outa me to be honest and the fact that the hierarchy in the SNP cannot see it coming worries me. The combination of the Covid legislation and the IMB will give a minister in the Westminster Government powers that any dictator would salivate over having. When you look at the Westminster government ministers currently in the cabinet they lack intelligence self awareness and integrity, does not bode well when those really in charge start directing them to action.
With very few exceptions the SNP are in denial over what can be seen written on the wall wrt Holyrood, perhaps they see themselves ruling over the ruins of a devastated Scotland – much like Labour and the Tories see themselves ruling over a Devastated no deal Brexit UK.
Problem is if you dare to criticise the SNP you are immediately a Yoon, Troll, muppet for the slightest suggestion that voting SNP 1/2 is a loser.
Their is no chance of me voting ever again for the SNP with current followers & shower of useless Mps/Msps and corrupt management. Currently I see no difference to Scottish Labour in the way it was run in the 70s onwards. They think they have your vote in the bag. Personally can’t see Indy vote happening as they will blow the election thinking that because of Covid they are on a vote winner as delusion is infectious in the current set up. I hope ISP do have a candidate as a list seat in my area as at the moment its the only X going in the Box.
This afternoon I joined the ISP,enough is enough.
Just HOW do you plan to MAKE SNP piss or get off the pot? If SNP do not get MAJORITY VOTES not seat then we are in danger of getting a cross party Gov of British Unioinists. After that is is downhill all the way. List seats will not matter. Have your personal dislikes of the FM & her Hubby by all means..they are not the Party or membership.
I noticed that in Canada there is pressure being placed on three provinces to tighten up their regulations with regards to funding of provincial political parties. The premise being that out of province funding allows undue external influence on provincial elections. 8 out of 11 provinces ban all political donations from outside the respective province.
The Scottish government control Scottish elections. Why is a malevolent foreign actor being allowed to fund political parties from outwith Scotland ? It is the duty of a “government” to ensure free and fair elections.
None of these so called Scottish parties could survive in there present form and to the same extent without subsidy from England. They are also strangling the development of indigenous parties.
Even Canadian provinces have more power and assertive governance that the nation and country of Scotland.
Far easier complaining and blaming England
while trousering the fruits of devolution than taking steps to move Scotland forward create a real independent democracy.
Bojo’s cards close to his chest must feel a heart attack coming on?
What position of strength does the fool think he had over the EU?
No Trump Deal, No deal with anyone within a thousand miles,
No trust after he broke the last deal he signed.
he will have to take any crumb the EU might give him before heralding who great he is.
In October, the chair of Tesco warned of fresh food shortages for “a few weeks, possibly a few months” after 1 January. The UK imports 62% of its fresh food, much of it from Europe. We rely on European trade for most of our onions, mushrooms, tomatoes and salad, and for a critical portion of many other vegetables and fruits. In the dead of winter, with trucks stuck at the border, possible tariffs, a weaker pound and no warehouse space, the price of fresh produce could go through the roof. If you can find it at all.
You will soon be advised to just eat cake!
If they were a Scottish Conservative party rather than a branch of a London party they might make some progress.
There is a need for a Conservatives for independence and then can stand in a Scottish parliament and hold their head up. Being a branch of the London master is their problem.
The question is, can within their number of MPs and MSPs, find a pair of balls to stand up, rather than cower in the corner constantly apologizing and trying to reword what Boris, or whoever replaces him, really means
I’ve said all along that brexit was just cover to imprison Scotland forever,I think I will be proved right unless we fight against their tyranny every way we can.
The stench of corruption, nepotism, fraudulent accounting, malicious legal shenanigans, distraction from core purpose, as well as general entitlement and inertia, grows stronger by the day from the SNP. If this party was a private-sector enterprise there would be mass disciplinaries and dismissals a long time before now.
It’s been noted here and elsewhere in the past that the longer a party is in power, the more they believe their own hype (see Alyn Smith as the smarmiest example of this), but also that they end up changing stuff they already changed the first time round, just to look busy/important and in control. An alternative is badly needed, as if this current SNP lineup are the answer, I’d hate to know the question.
Anyone who believes the SNP are unassailable just needs to look at what happened to the Tories by the mid-90’s after 16 years in power, and Labour throughout Scotland for decades up to the mid-2010’s. The gravy train always runs out of track before the occupants want it to.
This is genuinely scary, suggesting quite a lot of us shall end up going to Edinburgh to ensure free passage to Holyrood.
I couldn’t agree more Julie, I’ve said it a few times in here and on other indy sites that time is running out and that next years Scottish elections MUST double up as a plebiscite for independence.
Post the 31st of December I’m of the opinion and your article only add weight to it, that Johnson will focus on rolling back devolution primarily using the Internal Market bill, and eventually negating our parliaments ability to govern.
Now sure some will say, but if that happens then more Scots will vote for independence, that in my opinion would be true, however who’s to say that Westminster won’t physically block Scots from holding an indyref, and with no armed forces how on earth could we defend a decision that ultimately would see Sots vote yes to independence, the answer is we couldn’t and who will come to our aid on the international front?
In my opinion we only have the next elections to make good on the indy front after that the odds of becoming independent become slimmer and slimmer.
Excellent, calm and rational article.
I will be remaining an SNP member at least until Conference, as it means I can vote for Craig Murray for president instead of the odious Mike Russell.
But if there is no firm, unequivocal commitment to a referendum next year then sorry, but I am out. Though I will almost certainly still vote SNP
Whether or not I join the ISP or vote for them on the list depends on whether they show any signs of attracting some big names and making an impact.
A great article Julie. I think I read that ISP will only be fielding candidates for the list seats in 2021. SNP1, ISP2 could be a viable strategy, but only if the grassroots independence movement gets behind it. I think the endorsement of the Rev and other influential figures would be key to building sufficient momentum.
Scotland is self sufficient in food, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the UK Gov diverts food away from us and leaves us to starve. We don’t even have a direct trade link with mainland Europe any more.
ScotGov hasn’t planned for the worst. It doesn’t seem to have planned for anything.
I won’t be joining your party, but I will be voting ISP if you have a candidate standing in my area. I still have a very bad taste in my mouth from having been an SNP member. Brilliant summer lass.
I won’t be joining your party, but I will be voting ISP if you have a candidate standing in my area. I still have a very bad taste in my mouth from having been an SNP member. Brilliant summation lass.
Hi shug.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
The cunning plan parties join Brexit and commitment to the Section 30 process on the list of the great political follies of our time. An exercise in faith-based politics. An indulgence of fantasy politics. Playing silly games while our democracy and our nation are under real and imminent threat.
Ulterior motives or self-righteous naivete? It hardly matters. They’re asking us to stake everything on a gamble which even if it is won in their terms gives us precisely nothing.
I despair!
Replies. ISP don’t have to have big names as we are forced
to hold our noses and vote SNP 1 and 2nd has to be ISP to
warn SNP they will be replaced if they don’t take action towards
delivering independence now.
If everyone get behind on Craig here the powers that be,
will be encouraged to imprison him.
I am behind you Craig as my donation suggests!
Westminster sat quietly as their Irish Colony starved to death and there
are a million graves there to testify it.
With the Highland clearances and the planned sacrifices of Scottish troops
Have no doubt Westminster would sleep well if Scotland starved.
Great article, Julie. I joined the ISP last week (from my far off outpost in Asia!) I shall donate my mite when the election approaches.
Two points:
UK’s rating has already been downgraded to AA and in one of the big 3 rating agencies it is on their watchlist for further downgrade.
I am disturbed that the ISP constitution provides for a self-perpetuating NEC, where the current 6 members can co-opt others to join but are not themselves subject to re-election or to any higher authority. There is no acknowledgment in your constitution that the full party conference would be the ultimate decision maker on the NEC’s composition, and have the power to appoint and dismiss NEC members. I raised this concern with Colette Walker in a text and she replied that the Constitution is just provisional and can always be revised later. That’s not good enough, when we have before us the shameless shenanigans of the SNP’s NEC as a warning of how things can go badly wrong. Nothing prevented you inserting a clause in the ISP constitution making clear NEC arrangements would be subject to Conference as the ultimate authority.
You are saying “just trust us”. Well, I do, that’s why I joined. But I am watching.
Well, don’t just speak about it, grab the steering wheel. You must become a mainline party, forget about the “list only” mantra. Stand against the SNP, they are leading us Lemming-wise to the edge of oblivion.
The multitude of small parties, groupings, and individuals who support the idea of a list party for independence should all get together under a common umbrella. If they don’t they are just on an ego trip to utter failure.
Judean People’s Party, Judean Popular Front, Judean People’s Front, etc, etc.
Morven m says
A very real possibility, look what they did to Ireland, transported all the grain to Engerland and left the people to starve during the potato blight.
I’ve never been a member of any party,voted SNP for donkeys years, just joined Scotia Future their aims are just what I have been looking for in a political party.
A real left of centre Scottish independence party. Who are going to contest the constituency vote as well.
When the SNP get a kicking next year,if there is an election,I’m putting money on it being delayed if not cancelled, perhaps we’ll have to start from scratch again,but hopefully with lessons learned.
It just means I won’t live to see my dream, just hope my grandchildren will.
@Douglas Porter,
Do you not think we all stood where you now stand?
I was a membef. I admired Nicola Sturgeon. I sold the SN P ideology to everyone I knew.
Then for whatever reason they changed.k am no longer dazzled by promises of personalities. I watch in horror as they self destruct and take with them my dreams of Independence.
Well no more. I will find another route for my grandchildrens sake. They deserve to see what we were promised and denied.
A free Scotland.
I’m happy to throw my weight behind an alternative indy party, and if there is enough others I’m happy to give ISP a go. But we who want a new independence party to support need to be United in our vision and there needs to be a reasonable consensus about which new party best suits as the new vehicle.
There is no point in 3,4,5 new pro indy parties popping up and those of us on here splitting our support between them. We might as well not bother unless we intend to all agree on the same new party to back. We don’t want another useless also-ran like RISE or Solidarity. (Not in a million years am I suggesting new party should be far left god help us, just using those as pro-indy examples).
For now I am going to wait and see what others are proposing and I’m genuinely all ears
I was a SNP member until spring but became increasingly concerned with the rightward direction of the SNP, the faux Brexit outrage, the economic policies,etc.
Anyway I joined the ISP party and it’s been a breath of fresh air listening to fellow grassroot supporters building a party from the ground up in 6 months. We’re keen, organised and developing some interesting policies. Early days but very promising!
My own feeling is that the ISP have not gained enough traction to seriously challenge the SNP for the list but I welcome this as a long term strategy in holding them to account. The reality is that the general population love Nicola as they have no idea what any of her policies are, if they did they might see things differently.
They have watched the TV show, they can’t get enough of it and will gladly march into Brexit oblivion with Saltire in hand and they will thank her for the experience.
It will probably take another 2 years for the majority to wake up and realise Independence is not going to happen under the SNP. At this stage there will be a void to be filled and a genuine challenger will emerge, whether this is the ISP or another alternative remains to be seen, but the Cult of Nicola is strong and it’s not going away any time soon unless Alex does us a favour.
Note to the ISP: forget about robust policies to gain political popularity with the masses. Selfie taking is the way forward.
@1971 Thiatle 2:05pm
Oh I don’t think Europe needs any priming.
They had all they needed from Scotland for washers, gifted by Westminster.
They have had decades of trade and close relations with Westminster and absolutely no requirememt to deal with, or consider Scotland. Soon though, that may all be gone with Brexit. Whither the Scottish resources and trade they crave then?
I think their eyes are quite swiveled towards Scotland now. If they cannot extract what they need from Westminster, they will consider if they can do so from an Independent Scotland – knowing full well, the greater their support, the better the deal.
Currently, if they are not gearing up for a ‘bidding war’ I’ll be most astonished. The USA is the one primed by Westminster to hoover up Scotlands assets not the EU.
Though I’m quite sure, once the UK’s bargaining chips have been weakened enough, even the US may be considering the options – Fill your boots cheap via Westminster, or for even more cheapness, ultimately weaken the UK by backing Scotland.
That’s twofold, first obviously they can dictate any terms on a supra-weakened Westminster, then grab the geo-political asset of Scotland on the cheap by creating it’s own puppet and North Atlantic base of control (and yummy oil) all for the bargain basement price of political backing for Scottish Independence.
All they need to answer, is of the two options, which is easier, cheaper and confers most benefit? The US is in the driving seat because the UK is courting the USA.
Conversely, the EU would be courting Scotland.
I’m not saying the USA would do that (global politics and all that) but Scotland is possibly a greater asset to the US than the rUK -most certainly in real estate and assets, if perhaos not trade in goods and money (yet)
If noises off from the US is anything to go by, they are already poking the UK with a stick over Ireland and the Internal Market Bill.
It us de-riguer for companies to split themselves along the lines of assets and portfolios – for the US they get to seperate the business and trade base of the the rUK and the real estate of Scotland.
They also get back door trade via Scotland to the EU, without all that pesky tariffs war (else they wold not also be in Ireland doing the same thing – from data centres to warehouses)
Controlling interests in two seperate nations, on a North Atlantic landmass, with two seperate international trading tariff arrangements… and oil?
So yes, neither the EU, nor the USA (or other players) need much priming – they are gaming this well ahead of us.
What price Indy right enough?
Some may baulk at the thought a fledgling Nation may have to be whoring itself out, to be little puppets on a string – well, we’ve been dancing that jig for millennia – everyine does it – what’s new?
Besides, who says no one in Scotland is courting others. It could be mean a juicy UN position, or the EU for retirement plans…ir.a.oeerage and ermine – I don’t have Nicola down as a book signing at Waterstones in Ayr and switching Xmas lights on in Irvine…
You write:
” MorvenM says:
18 November, 2020 at 2:30 pm
Scotland is self sufficient in food**, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the UK Gov diverts food away from us and leaves us to starve. We don’t even have a direct trade link with mainland Europe any more.
ScotGov hasn’t planned for the worst. It doesn’t seem to have planned for anything.”
————————–
** This statement only remains true while Scottish farmers and other producers can get their produce onto our supermarket shelves. During lockdown, there were farms here in Fife who could only get the food out of the fields with the help of volunteers without whose assistance, the food would have rotted where it lay. This was done by hand, the food delivered for the benefit of food banks.
This situation arose from a number of factors: first, the use of picking machinery is, despite the low pay, a highly-skilled task acquired through long hours of practice, that has previously been completed by short-term hours workers from Eastern Europe and the UK allowed what? 200 or so into the country over the summer. Farmers simply didn’t have the resource to train the uninsured volunteers.
Second, if UK supermarkets (read: companies with England-based HQs) are not buying from Scotland’s producers, the farmers are impacted by the cost of picking (never mind seeding) a crop that is not bought: quite simply, the diesel for machinery costs money, the insurance and labour wages costs money, the warehousing, refridgeration and packaging all cost money.
The rest of what you write is broadly correct. The Scottish Government has made the erroneous assumption that because they are abiding by the law, so will all the other players. They – and their voters – are about to get an education in what is meant by ‘Creative Destruction’: it is anarchism but applied with the full force of the levers of government.
Farming is a business. Fishing is a business. Bakeries are businesses. Political polemics about ‘levelling up’ don’t feed the hungry. Businesses large and small do this all the time and we don’t notice until we’re punching out some gobby moron for snatching the last multipacket of bog roll from our trolley.
So let me ask a question: where is the border-control lorry park in Scotland? Where is the ferry terminal that can cut a vital distance of hundreds of road miles from essential food supply in January? Will Leith just suddenly magic itself into fully-operational status?
And it’s not just imports. To give you a real example of the mess Scottish farms are in consider this: Scotland produces 80% of the UK’s potato seed stock. Our biggest customer is Ireland. It takes 80-days to produce that seed stock, an export worht more than £200m to Scotland’s economy. The Brexit cliff-edge is in 40-odd day’s time. Do you think Scotland’s farmers invested all that time and money for a crop they may not be able to export from January? That’s lost economic growth right there and it’s not even December.
This is the very real problem with stuffing the SNP’s benches with a bunch of button-pushing, yes wxmen who know only as much about business as they do the value of their inheritance from mummy and daddy.
The Scottish Government has been asleep at the wheel. It’s long past time to give the driver pelters.
The SNP has become a unionist party.
Oh it’s going to be just fine the SNP have it all in hand and don’t worry about our MPs and MSPs their jobs and working arrangements pensions etc are safe so thats sorted eh .
NOTHING TO SEE MOVE ON
Aye believe this SNP has a PLAN and you are going to be disappointed , there will be tears before bedtime .because they have backed us into a corner with no other viable alternative in the time left , well done SNP yer playing a blinder ,FOR THE UNION
Well said Julie, it is time “we” the people acted, we are the ones that are sovereign, not Scotland’s government. And it is our claim of right to chose who governs us, and what period we choose that for “ And as far as I can ascertain from the claim of right, it does not stipulate that we have to do this via a referendum from Westminster or the Scottish government that stands at Holyrude, and as for the devolved government in Scotland it was an English concept by labour and tony Blair to forestall independence in Scotland.
Yesterday being a miserable wet day I spent the day reading the following treaties of the kingdom of Scotland.
I read the treaty of Durham 1136, in which England’s Doncaster is still technically part of Scotland.
I read the treaty of Arbroath, 1320 in which Pope John agreed that Scotland was a independent country and Robert the Bruce was king of Scotland,
I read the treaty of York 1237 between king Henry 111 of England and king Alexander of Scotland.
I read the “treaty of Perth” 1266 between Norway and and the kingdom of Scotland.
I read the treaty of Corbeil between France and Scotland 1326.
I read the treaty of Ayton 1497.
I read the treaty of perpetual peace 1502. Between Henry v11 of england and James 1v of Scotland.
I read the treaty of the union 1707.
And there are a few things that are remarkable and stand out,
(1) We took sh… from no one in those days, if England said we couldn’t have or do something, we fought hard for our rights and position as a nation and a kingdom.
(2) England broke or went back on their word in 90% of those treaties. And they are still trying to this day to break treaties,
(3) England never took it into account that the Scottish people retained their sovereignty throughout any and all treaties.
I then read Scotland’s manga carta, The claim of Right and Common Law, Professor The right Hon Sir David Edward KCME QC FRSE*. In the uk Supreme Court yearbook, volume 6, page 7-12.
How little we know about our rights. How little does any of the independence movement or parties stand up for these rights that still exist for people in Scotland,
And if they did they would relieve us immediately of the many times broken Treaty of the Union,
Legal law in Scotland is written down and we know that the snp are not following our laws, but we also know that any other party that claims to be for the bettering of Scotland’s or independence that twiddles it’s thumbs and ignore these legalities is not on our side and does not have our best interests at heart.
“We” are the only nation that has a legal claim of right above Westminster’s supposed sovereign parliament, and above monarchy, why do we wait for for the England’s parliament in Scotland and the England parliament in England before we realise we actually have the tools now to state our independence
Agree entirely, but you’re a bit like all the other people who keep telling us we need to do something but never tell us WHAT. What do we DO?
Good article and comments.
Two quick points:
On food shortages, if that does happen then God help the Tories. Food banks and free school meals refusal are bad enough, but if that impacts the whole population…
Brexit – does anyone know what steps the Scottish Government has taken? Surely there have to be procedures, laws etc that need to be in place. Or are they leaving it to the last moment in the vain hope a deal will be struck? There must be devolved responsibilities.
Perfectly put and a perfect analogy and end image
..
100 yards “the stanchion will move”
80 yards “the stanchion will move
..
…
We are 10 yards away now and as seen in previous video, folk like Ian Blawhard are saying “Trust us with your vote and give us more time!”
I sighed with a weary shrug seeing Pete “blocked!” Wishart on News yesterday in London downcrying Boris’ so called slip about Devolution. Strange how Boris has actually contributed more to the argument than Pete has in all his years supping the long spoon.
I fear unless the car turns into KITT from Knight Rider then we are doomed.
Cue Scotty shouting “The NEC have hacked oor Sat Nav, Capt’n”
The ISP and SNP should properly slot together and be the perfect compliment each other, one being strong where the other is weak, as the ‘levelling up’ effect of the d’Honte voting system kicks in and it’s the Unionist parties squeezed out of seats.
The dysfunctional component in the machine is NOT the ISP, (although the emergence of multiple List parties demonstrates that not everybody is up to speed about having a strong and readily identifiable List Party). That said, there is time for these new parties to find their feet, and build alliances which can come together when the election is more imminent… hopefully. I know, I know, but hopefully.
It is the primary vote winner and current government, the SNP, which is currently giving people sleepless nights, and putting everything in jeopardy through this out of character emergence of corruption, vote rigging, an inert and wholly dysfunctional Independence strategy, and their thoroughly bizarre fixation with toxic, deviant, vote losing campaign policies which NOBODY invited onto the Independence bandwagon. What in gods name are they playing at???
There is little actual division between the rank and file that the SNP genuinely seems to be having something of a disturbing mid-life crisis. The division is much more prevalent between what people want to do to fix it; over confident ‘Wheesht for Indy’ gradualists who want to let sleeping dogs lie, and those who want urgent change because they now have no confidence at all that the SNP is the safe pair of hands it pretends to be.
What is needed is a great coming together to rediscover our common purpose, but this simply isn’t going to happen while the SNP Leadership ploughs on regardless, listening to nobody, answering concerns with waffle and evasive rhetoric, while keeping on the same broken trajectory which everybody can see ending in disaster, everybody that is, except the Party’s leadership.
The problem is amplified by virtue of the fact many people hold Alex Salmond is tremendously high regard, and this conspiracy to smear him is literally unforgivable, unfathomable, and leaving a very nasty taste in people’s mouths, and the Scottish Government’s conduct throughout the whole sorry episode leaves many people in no mood to forget and forgive, nor trust the current SNP leadership an inch.
Consequently, I fear there will be no coming together or easing of the divide until the current leadership goes. I hope it steps down… before it is ignominiously brought down in disgrace, but the delusion seems strong amongst the SNP leadership, no doubt I suppose, because many will recognise their gravy train political careers will shortly be hitting the buffers, and some of them might yet face criminal prosecution.
Suffice to say, Scottish Independence is the least of their concerns.
ScottieDog at 1:44 pm
> And here it is, straight from the horses mouth…
> link to twitter.com
A quick search finds what looks like the original here:
policyexchange.org.uk/pxevents/why-is-our-union-special/
Youtube speech here:
link to youtube.com
40 minutes o’ pish. Knock yersel oot!
Bob Mack 1:07pm
England is financially viable?
link to ourworldindata.org
@ Davie Oga: I wrote to M/s Sturgeon about two years ago saying the England-registered parties should be banned, and only Scotland-registered and hence funded parties be allowed. The FM is the minister responsible for elections.
You will be interested to hear what she replied.
So will I. Not had a reply yet.
A contact advised that the Daily Hail is slaughtering the
Tory Pals multi Billion pound Covid contract give away.
I’m told of a young woman in their fold, with no experience
picked up £880,000 for nothing supplied and did a selfie
at the Airport as she headed off on holiday to celebrate her
windfall.
The article links Tory connection after Tory connection all with
Zero experience in what they suggest they can provide.
Michelle Moan, Scotland’s most successful gold digger and
purveyor of fake skimming pills for the gullible, also gets a mention
for being one among a nest of Tory rats picking up over £200 million.
The people giving out these contracts and those picking up these contracts
should be arrested, their property confiscated under the proceeds of crime
and they should be locked up as an example to others.
Is that a mummer from the SNP about this as Scotland will have to pay for these scams too?
No, it’s the cat bringing up a fur ball.
Maybe it’s a good step, maybe it’s a futile gesture, but come May, I think ISP have my second vote. Any other potentially good options open to punters like me will be given a fair hearing.
Not Rhiannon:
link to twitter.com
(Highlands and Islands might yield a list seat for the SNP, if Orkney and Shetland stay LibDem, so she may still get in, if she tops the list.)
Well said Julie, I am thinking of joining your little group. I am voting SNP 1 next year for the last time. You will have number 2 vote no bother.
If the SNP don’t get it together I feel a new party is required to stand for independence it’s a pity but may well be needed.
18 Billion ‘cash for cronies’ scandal.
link to web.archive.org
O/T Rhiannon Spear oot for Argyll – as in , NOT selected as candidate.
But crazycat points out she may be on the list so may get in anyway. Sigh.
If Nicola does not name the date for Indy Ref 2 by March. Then it’s over. The May election will just be going through the motions. The SNP have been warned. We know what you are doing.
The carrot dangling of jam tomorrow , will no longer work. WM will make sure that we never leave.
Peter A Bell,
That is completely dismissive and short termist. Of course any new party will be frowned upon as anything new has to endure the evaluation of a critical eye. To me at least, it has has become evident that more and more people are not on the same page as the SNP and are actively seeking ways to register their disapproval.
Voting for another party will certainly do that.
I am of the opinion it is already too late for the SNP to recover to their core reason for being and they are already on the path to oblivion where they will no doubt be in conversation with BLiS about how and where it all went wrong.
If I understand correctly, your plan is to change things from inside the SNP, how is that going for you?
The trouble with being in the tent pissing out is that you’re pissing on us, the people outside, it’s no surprise then, that we’re pissing in.
You can pejoratively speak about “the cunning plan parties” all you want but it is obvious to many that they are needed.
This is the SNPs doing, this is a situation they created through disillusionment of some of their own voters it may still be in their hands to short circuit the ISP or any other “cunning” party by naming a date for indyref2 or some equivalent and kicking the HCB and self ID into the long grass.
I’m guessing that we’ll just get more of the same insipid shit shovelling regarding independence and a Wha’s like us attitude.
So Peter just in case I have misunderstood your views, could you tell us precisely what you think should be done?
The SNP will lose the opportunity for Independence if they continue to trust Boris and his henchmen to prove that they are liars by granting a S30 order. They are asleep at the wheel.
Big Jock: “If Nicola does not name the date for Indy Ref 2 by March. Then it’s over.”
Who cares if she names a date? It wouldn’t be worth a thing.
Putting aside the issue of trust and the fact that she’s misled us several times on indyref2, does she really think she can just carry on regardless, given what we know already of her role in the Salmond affair?
On the strength of that one issue alone, even if she done everything else really brilliantly, she’d be finished. Anyone that says otherwise simply doesn’t understand the subject matter.
The deadline approaches next week – once we know whether a skinny deal has been signed up to or it’s NO Deal. Neither is good for Scotland. Add on incoming Westminster plans.
@ everyone who asked: “What do we DO?”
On the evidence James Che set out (above)I suggest announcing to the UN, ECHR, and anywhere else people can think of that: the treaty of Union has been broken and Scotland wants Independence and to stay in the EU (see Breeks many suggestions in past posts).
At the very least it would buy some time and might even be successful
Does the Scottish govt have to do this?
Can crowd-funded individual/group like AUOB + a truly Independent-minded lawyer do it?
First task: Find out who can do it.
And if it’s not necessarily the SNP . . . .
Chuffed for Jenny Minto. She’s a good solid Indy supporter and community activist. Well deserved.
Really good article. Lays out the dangers coming towards us very clearly.
O/T – a legal question. Back in 1997 it took a Referendum in Scotland to deliver Devolution. Is there a legal precedent or hook, that makes it fundamentally unjust to dismantle it without a similar opportunity to vote.
I appreciate that power devolved is power retained, but if the power grab – effectively dismantles Holyrood in all but name….
Something to think about perhaps. At the very least it might be an amendment to justify going ahead with a Referendum without S30 permission.
@ Daisy re suggestion about 1997 Referendum
Am not a lawyer but Westminster always says “No parliament can bind another” which means they can undo anything they like, when they like
I hope everyone watched Craig Murray with Twa auld heeds on Indy Livestream , if you thought it was bad after watching this prepare yerself s , it’s worse than I thought the way the SNP are actively blocking the move forward , Bawjaws is not the problem that impediment is nailed to the front door of the residents of Bute House,
@ Daisy
Would have thought a power grab and the implementation of the IMB is surely considered one of them there material change in circumstance thingys.
Plus there’s the claim of right…
already joined you Julie. <it seems that as soon as you become complacent about the politicians that are looking after the shop, you turn around to find them either skimming from the till or spending the proceeds somewhere else.
Before we all end up looking like donkey's or hitting that gantry, we definitely need to do something. What's scary is that Govt. has already gotten our justice system in their pocket. It is becoming hard to see where the rot stops.The policies have already gone to the dogs.
Good news about Rhiannon Spear at least.
The UK is not AAA rated and has not been since 2016.
Anyone bothered looking in on La La Land I expect the real believers are sticking with their delusional thoughts about this SNP being their saviours and they have a Cunning Plan to snatch victory out of the jaws of total defeat , oh well denial helps some people I suppose like a comfort blanket, it’s not going to be pretty when they finally find out the truth , it’s bad enough for folk here who can see and have come to terms with the real world and as it is and not what we hoped it was
Someone commented way above about this new party’s rigid NEC setup. I hope that, while the party is young and growing, it may provide protection from ex-labour carpetbaggers.
@ ‘ben madigan says:
18 November, 2020 at 5:26 pm
@ Daisy re suggestion about 1997 Referendum
Am not a lawyer but Westminster always says “No parliament can bind another” which means they can undo anything they like, when they like’
Thanks Ben, and Dan. I’m not putting it very well I think, which is fair enough since I’ve only just thought about it, but what I’m trying to get at, is,
A very high bar was set (and recognised Internationally as Legal and Democratic), with regards the procedures by which we obtained the Scottish Parliament – i.e. a Referendum.
And while I can see that Devolved powers can be tweaked or amended by any given Government on any given day.
Wholesale destruction of it, would appear to me to also require a ‘very high bar’, and I’m wondering if legally there is a hook by which we can fight it, or register the fight.
Likewise Dan, you say it is one of those ‘material changes’, and I grant you that it is, but in addition to that, are there any fundamental constitutional laws that are being broken by this course of action.
As an example – does it have the same, or similar, Legal Standing as an International Treaty? I would suggest it probably should have. Which is not to say that Governments cannot break International Treaties – Westminster is particularly fond of doing so… but it is an action that has legal consequences on the International stage.
On a fundamental (and succinct) level – it took a Referendum to create the Scottish Devolved Parliament – it must surely take another one before it can be dismantled. Not just the whim of a pissed off Boris.
Following the Brexit vote, the UK was demoted to an AA rating.
Good article, good to know there are smart, articulate folk in the ISP.
But we still need to keep some of our support for the SNP. In the South of Scotland especially where Joan McAlpine should make the top of the list (unless there’s jiggery pokery by the NEC). So I hope the ISP don’t field a candidate there.
Great news that the awful Rhiannon Spear got told where to go in Argyll and Bute.
@ Daisy
One assumes oor First Minister will insist a “Gold Standard” process is adhered to during any alterations that affect our status…
I mean, a real deal, pukka First Minister of Scotland isnae gonnae just let us get shafted, plus oor Queen will probably wade in to give her hauners tae.
#StrongerForScotland and aw that.
If the IMB isn’t considered a worthy enough material change in circumstance in Scotland’s status to kick off the process of Scotland reconsidering its position within the UK, one can only ponder just what would be required.
You SNP’rs can’t have a Conference because of COVID, but that doesn’t stop the Out for Indy Weirdos having an AGM apparently formally sponsored by the SNP judging by the literature.
Priorities still not in the right place evidently.
…
link to snp.org
@Daisy Walker,
Boris has the power to disband Holyrood without going to Parliament. Remember the Henry 8 laws which allow him to take any action without consultation ,in the National interest.
@ Daisy Walker
This is the Scotland Act (2016):
link to legislation.gov.uk
(My emphasis)
This is UK government legislation, so can be repealed/amended whenever Westminster wishes.
@ Bob Mack
You posted while I was searching/typing.
You are, of course, right.
The Met police force to take no further action against Margaret Ferrier, however the COPFS has instructed Police Scotland to continue to pursue her vigorously. Ferrier is standing as an independent.
Salmond and MacDonald’s witch hunts spring to mind.
I need a mem that shows the strength of contempt Boris has for Scotland
@ Daisy
(3) In view of that commitment it is declared that the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government are not to be abolished
The IMB does not abolish the Scottish Parliament and Government. It strips them of powers and makes them subservient to the new expanded Scottish Office – but they still exist
@shug (7.25) –
Anything which reminds folk of that vile ‘poem’ he approved for publication in the Spectator would probably be effective.
Seems the beavers are not even safe in Scotland now C4 report there.
Farmers want to shoot them and Scotgov restrict where they can be relocated to in Scotland.Wtf is that all about?
The solution apparently-relocate them to England.
Could this be our secret army? Send in the beaver,destroy the crops and farmland. Bit of karma mibbie lol
I take it that if I am an SNP member who identifies as LGBTQ+, then I’ll be able to vote at the Out for Indie AGM.
Even if I’m not LGBTQ+
As who is going to say I’m not?
@Cenchos
Depends how good an actor/actress you are!
Thanks for that info Crazycat.
Your last sentence is the exact opposite of what is laid out legally in point 3.
Were the UK Government to do so – and I accept that they will do it, in all but name, and everything will hinge on the definition of the word ‘abolished’, then they are breaching The Scottish Act 2016 – not amending it.
Is the Scottish Act 2016 considered to be an International Treaty? I’m going to suggest it probably has the same legal standing.
From what I can gather – the Acts of Union made certain things – like Scots Law – always a separate entity.
In order to get some laws (for example Road Traffic Law) to be standard throughout the UK, the primary legislation, gets presented in Scotland and ratified under Scotland Act’s. In effect (if not an exact definition) a Treaty between 2 countries.
The EU – in their wisdom – have written into the Withdrawal Agreement – that if there is a breach – any qualified lawyer (not Government) can lodge the complaint, which will be dealt with under ECJ laws and at the ECof J, up to 4 years from date of registering.
The EU have already started legal proceedings against the UK regarding breaches by the UK.
The Internal Market Bill will breach the Treaty of Union – in a fundamental way. However, it has not yet been passed as law by Westminster, (until it is, we don’t know what the final Bill will contain) and unfortunately I do not see that happening now before 31/12/20 – after which time, we are out of transition period and it becomes too late to lodge a complaint regarding it. Probably – from what I can see.
I’m thinking aloud here, but I’m also thinking that the more fronts that can be presented against WM the better.
The terms of the Withdrawal Agreement – by allowing NI to remain trading within the EU, while Scotland is out – is a fundamental breach of the International Treaty between England and Scotland, as signed up to within the Acts of Union – whereby every part of the UK would have equal trading access to other parts of the world.
If the Internal Market Bill goes through, pretty much in its current form, coupled with the Edinburgh Civil Service Hub – and the wholesale power grab from Holyrood, it would appear to be a fundamental breach of the main principle of the Devolved Parliament – abolished in all but name – and therefore a breach of Part 2A, 63A, (3) of the Scotland Act 2016.
And why might that be important?
Because, try convincing a former No Voter that the Acts of Union are being fundamentally breached and their eyes glaze over.
Tell the same voter – who voted FOR DEVOLUTION – that they are breaching the Scotland Act 2016 and Abolishing the Scottish parliament – so much so that it is now being legally challenged! And you have them dealing with current affairs, and not ancient history. Potentially we also get the issue of the threat against to Holyrood’s continued existence front of stage and into the news.
I apologise if the above is not correct, I’m not an expert, but it does seem to me to be a legal avenue worth bottoming out.
Re Harassment and Complaints Committee ,
The minutes and the written report from yesterday’s meeting have been published ,
From the minutes but i see Murdo Fraser’s name is missing from this part ,
“ The Committee considered a proposal to write to James Hamilton regarding the First Minister’s self-referral under the Ministerial Code. The Committee disagreed with this proposal by division: For 3 (Jackie Baillie, Alex Cole- Hamilton, Margaret Mitchell), Against 5 (Alasdair Allan, Angela Constance, Linda Fabiani, Alison Johnstone, Maureen Watt), Abstentions 0. “
link to parliament.scot
The written report ,
link to parliament.scot
I have not read all the written report yet as it is 40 pages long and I presume it would’ve been even longer if the Lord Advocate and Leslie Evans had actually given “ complete “ answers to the committee’s questions instead of them avoiding answering the questions .
Will be joining you in December.
Bob Mack says:
18 November, 2020 at 6:57 pm
@Daisy Walker,
Boris has the power to disband Holyrood without going to Parliament. Remember the Henry 8 laws which allow him to take any action without consultation ,in the National interest.
With such totally ineffectual opposition, supposing Boris Johnson closed Holyrood tomorrow, what consequences would he actually face? A cowardly Scottish Government which won’t even hold a referendum without his consent despite multiple mandates is going to do precisely what?
Scotland losing 1-0 to the military oppressive apartheid regime known as Israel.
link to hesgoal.com
@ Daisy Walker
I’m not a lawyer either, but there is a certain circularity to this.
The SP cannot be abolished without a referendum, but the law stating that it can’t is not itself immutable, and therefore the SP could be abolished, at least in theory.
We’ve seen the disregard of Westminster for Motions of Legislative Consent, their willingness to stall royal assent while they render something illegal, and their adoption of Henry VIII powers (which I haven’t studied the detail of; they may apply only in certain circumstances, bad enough on its own).
I do think the conclusion in your penultimate and antepenultimate paragraphs is important, though.
@Daisy Walker/crazycat –
‘The Scottish Parliament is a temporary institution.’
We’ve seen the following clip many times.
It maybe helps explain why Rennie seems happy to spend most of his time acting the goat, or whatever other farm animal takes his fancy.
But it also illustrates a mindset.
Whether or not what he’s saying is ‘true’ may be moot, but he clearly believes it.
link to youtube.com
“it does seem to me to be a legal avenue worth bottoming out”.
Where are you going to seek redress for this Breach of the Union Treaty and attack on Devolution?
You mentioned the ECJ.Fine
Which brings me back to my original point – Scotland should appeal to any and all international courts to highlight its position vis-à-vis England.
Going through the UK/Scots legal systems is, imv, not feasible because both Scotland and England are involved and either can be accused of bias in this particular instance.
The next question is: Who can seek redress?
Only the Scots Government/SNP? Or groups lke AUOB / YES movement?
Eh Spear ? A Bus or a Hit and Run ? Just asking like. About the misfortune she encountered
Faint laughter in the background at the news sorry mustn’t gloat I suppose before we get the whole story let’s hope it wasn’t a minor incident or was that being Cruel , but then again who cares .
Henry the VIII was not in power at the time of the Acts of Union, and neither was his law being utilised in England at the time of signing.
I suspect its one of those principles that is so incredibly obvious – that a law making it illegal has not been formed.
But consider the implications.
You want rid of someone and cannot do it under current legal methods. Bring back the legislation for burning witches at the stake – same principle.
I fucking hate the SNP now. And I’m still a member. Only because I hope to be able to vote out the brit nets that have riddled the party.
I fucking hate the SNP FOR FAILING Scotland.
At a time when we could easily reach independence with them being given mandate after mandate- the sit on their hands and keep their mouths shut.
The time for heros has come. Not careerist SNzp politicians.
We need to organise the indy grass roots. Scotland is being relentlessly attacked and the do fuck all!!
Not acceptable indeed! Eh blackford?!
This really is an excellent article from a Mr Ingram in the National newspapers letter section.
In it he says the Scottish parliament wasn’t abolished in 1707 it merely stopped sitting, and that since the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320 sovereignty has resided with the people of Scotland.
Mr Ingram adds that the terms of the Treaty of Union doesn’t indicate anywhere that the recall of the Scottish parliament has to be organised or sanctioned by Westminster.
Mr Ingram then says, that Westminster does not have the constitutional authority to counter the expressed will of the Scottish people. There was no union of national parliaments of Scotland and England under the Act of Union of 1706, and the 1707 Treaty of Union.
Its worth a read.
link to thenational.scot
@shug (7.25) –
Here’s more evidence of how Johnson sees us, as quoted by Craig Murray in his latest post:
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Who’s waiting in the wings as the actual leader of AFI as Dave Thomson is the interim leader ???
Good post Julie, well done.
I didn’t renew my SNP membership in Sepember as I can’t support a party that takes its members for voting fodder and refuses to at least try to pot one of the many golden opportunities/mandates that the last 6 years have presented.
I commented the following on a Grousebeater essay – SNP or Independence? – a couple of weeks back, but I think it fits very well to your post. Food for thought.
Hope the Rev doesn’t mind..!
— — —
“I’d been pondering about who could lead a new alternative to the SNP.
The start-ups like ISP may have their heart in the right place but are nowhere near yet having the charisma which attracts people in droves to the party and stirs the excitment of hope.
AS and the Rev Stu do possess bucketfulls of charisma but are also very polarising in their style of action.
An ISP-AS-Rev Stu party would be a huge step forward as an integrated entity but they would IMO still need a very popular, no nonsense front-man who gets on with the job of blowing the trumpet with the YES movement and media.
I’d forgotten about Duncan Hamilton, but by God that would be a fantastic man to head up such a party.
Fit in Johanna C, Phillipa W and some of the other good ones and you’ve got the makings of truely great alternative to the SNP, with a huge magnetic attraction for the folk in general.”
— — —
For those of the readers who still don’t know who Duncan Hamilton is, then watch him here.
He’s not a man in a frock, he’s a man in a kilt – make your choice… 🙂
link to youtube.com
@ Ben Madigan ‘where are you going to seek redress?”
You ask a good question.
At the moment, I’m trying to see if there is/are solid legal grounds.
Ultimately, I don’t think it will matter to whom we register the complaint with – whether it is the Supreme Court, ECJ or UN.
But where I see capital, on a practical level, is that is a valid, and succinct sell to our electorate, one which highlights the threat to our parliament:
and if the complaint is solid, and lodged with an international court – it becomes a stick with which to beat Westminster against their complaints of illegal referendums or plebiscite elections for Indy.
It’s not an end in and of itself, but one of many battles.
This form of battle has the added benefit (potentially) of enabling international allies to give voice. And with 60% of EU oil reserves in Scottish Waters, I rather think the EU would enjoy a little legally appropriate interference.
With regards the question of ‘who can seek redress?’
I don’t know is the answer. But to whom does the Scottish Parliament belong, given that the people of Scotland are Sovereign. Once again we are in unchartered territory.
Ideally it would be better if a political party within the Scot Gov/Parliament – or cross party members carried it forth.
But, it is my parliament, just as it is yours, it certainly doesn’t belong to Auld Betty. In fact, rather inconveniently for her, she sort of has Royal Duty to stand up for it and us.
@crazycat says:
18 November, 2020 at 8:38 pm
@ Daisy Walker
I’m not a lawyer either, but there is a certain circularity to this.
The SP cannot be abolished without a referendum, but the law stating that it can’t is not itself immutable, and therefore the SP could be abolished, at least in theory.’
When they write down laws, in black and white, stating it cannot be abolished without the consent of the Scottish people via Referendum – as much as they Can over rule that – the optics are appalling.
Realistically, what is more likely is keep it running, but hive off all money’s and powers to the Scottish office/Civil Service Hub. For that reason much would depend on the definition of what the Scottish Parliament was set up to do, and prove those powers removed, and the legal definition within the Scotland Acts with regards the word ABOLISH’.
It is why I don’t think they would use the Henry 8 th act. They don’t need to.
Unfortunately, with regards which court a complaint is registered to – and for Indy purposes – an international one would be better, normally you have to exhaust homeland courts before ECJ services are available.
Which is why the section within the Withdrawal Agreement was so unique… and potentially empowering.
@ronnie anderson (9.22) –
Do you already know the answer to that and you’re just teasing us?
😉
@ Ian Brotherhood naw Ian genuine question
I don’t have a vote, sadly, but pretty much all my friends do and I’ll be sending them your way.
Luckily the AUOB online conference has thrown up a potential and probable ‘new driver’ to avoid that crash. A driver who listens to prospective supporters, and replies to them, unlike ISP. I had to laugh when the author of this piece criticised the snp for failing to pay heed to what is coming down the road, of failing to listen. Reads like transference to me.
George Kerevan’s article which was linked to in the previous posting, about the AUOB conference and the outcome, the potential ‘YesTractor’ points to a path for the yes movement at last, probably the most encouraging thing I have read for over a year now. I hope snp supporters will listen to him and begin to understand the reasons behind the current division within the yes movement, exactly why it has come about through the Sturgeonists actions and the only way forward where we can all unite and put our various differences behind us again to build a cohesive force with an unstoppable momentum.Thta is what we need, and we need it now.
Excellent article.
I said this recently, that the indy movmement needs to stop hoping the SNP will call indyref, and instead now demand it, or we do not vote for them in 2021. Nothing will focus the minds of the SNP leadership, than the realisation that their game of talking up indy prior to an election, then ignoring it for the next five years will NOT work this time.
We have seen through them.
It is abundantly obvious why the new colonial office has been built and opened in Edinburgh. It is abundantly obvious why so many new civil servants have been recruited for the colonial administration. It is obundantly obvious why the internal market bill has been created – to force a ‘unified’ UK on Scotland regardless of what the people of Scotland want or vote for.
It is all soo damn obvious. So WHY, WHY,WHY are the SNP still pretending that it’s business as usual, and we can just sit back and wait until some years from now to act? Either Nicola Sturgeon is woefully incompetnent and out of touch, or she is not on our side. It is one or the other, their is no third option.
Now is the time to fight. Not next year, not after yet another mandate, not after beggin permission from London.
With each passing day, and as we inch closer to brexit hell, I grow angrier and angrier with the SNP. Come May 2021, they will surely regret taking us all for fools. Just like Labour did, just like Labour.
@ronnie anderson –
Sorry Ronnie, wasn’t trying to be smart. I don’t know either.
🙁
My evenings entertainment I withdrew £600 from my bank account today £580 of witch are BoE there now destined for the shredder maybes in Croydon ( lighters 3 for ah pound )el scorchio oan the corners
Ian Brotherhood hiv ah stab at it
@ronnie anderson –
Honestly no idea.
🙁
Actually, with reference to my above post, I think their is a third option regarding why the SNP are sticking to a section 30 nonsense. It is to be honest quite fanciful, but is it possible?
Several years ago, after the indyref vote, and when Theresa May became prime minister, she visited NS in Edinburgh. Most indy folk, including Alex Salmond believed indyref was imminenent, yet after that meeting NS rolled things back. Suddenly she was ‘waiting to see’.
Could it be that NS made a deal with the Uk gov, that she would allow brexit to actually happen, and in return, the ukgov would give their blessing to a section 30 thereafter, with some sutiably high level post for NS, somewhere like the UN, as her personal reward??
You see back in 2016, nobody expected (or wanted) a hard brexit at all. Nobody exoected it all to take so long ( 4 years), so such a deal could have seemed enticing to NS – who is, despite her false modesty very, very careerist and driven for her own gain. It may have seemed that an indyref with the ukgov approval was only a year or so away.
But then it all went wrong.
Would that explain why despite the pressurte, NS is sticking to a completely illogical strategy of section 30?
I just cannot think of any other logical reason why she is pursuing such a strategy. Everybody knows it is nonsense.
Once brexit happens at the end of the year, will we then see Boris the English clown, come out and say he now accepts an indyref is needed???
I guess we will soon know.
Great article, ISP member, enjoyed the good days with the SSP. Why did I join ISP, gave them a tenner as a finger up to SNP, first branch meeting I recognised a fellow expostie, Roddy,would like to see him as list MSP for the Highlands and Islands. Great hopes for AUOB assemblies, see what came out of last Saturday’s assembly. Who remembers the poll tax and miners strike. Let’s get organised.
@Republicofscotland says:
18 November, 2020 at 7:05 pm
“Ferrier is standing as an independent.”
She’s no chance in Rutherglen. A lot of people might pissed off especially now we’re at Tier 4.
She will see her remaining time out at Westminster to secure the salary and the pension.
@ ronnie anderson
Am I allowed to guess? If so:
a) Tommy Sheridan, since his party is the only one that’s shown any interest in it
or
b) George Galloway, since he likes alliances and probably doesn’t care what they are alliances for/of provided he gets the starring role.
😉
For some crazy reason I have found myself watching the STV Scottish News (for the first time in about 5 years) and Stephen Paton is now on my screen talking about de-funding the police.
He’s very smart. I’m glad to see him sitting there grilling the police like that. And on a certain level it’s excellent that he’s doing so dressed as a woman.
The dusty old fools of the establishment don’t have a chance against that sort of unorthodoxy.
It’s a pity we are at odds with people like that. It’s unnecessary. I have absolutely nothing against trans people like Stephen Paton – as a half-baked anarchist, I actually think they’re anti-establishment unorthodoxy is brilliant – but of course we can’t dismiss concerns about the laws they (ScotGov) are trying to force on us.
It’s another unnecessary division caused by the current SNP regime. Nobody could give Nicola any lessons on Divide and Rule.
@ Robert Louis at 10.11pm: If there’s any truth in your suggestion about a secret deal having been made, all I can say is, ‘To hell with secret deals!’ Are we not sick to the back teeth of underhand dealings, dishonesty and secrecy from politicians? I don’t believe it in any case. Nicola Sturgeon has shown no willingness to bring about our independence at any point since the referendum, so even if such a deal has been made, it would be an act of idiotic blind faith to expect a referendum to take place under the present SNP leadership.
The rejection of Rhiannon Spears and all she stands for by the SNP members of Argyll and Bute is hopefully the start of the expulsion of the uni corrupted woke virtue signalling misogynists from the SNP.
Scot, what does “uni corrupted” mean?
I wonder what happened last night as earlier on at 3.06 pm the Peston show tweeted that Nicola Sturgeon would be on the show and then at 6.26 pm they put this up ,
“ The First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon will now join us another week “
link to twitter.com
Wonder what happened for her not to be on the show ?
Funny someone mentioning ex-Labour carpet baggers. Can someone take Tommy ‘the grass’ Shepherd and his 5th columnists Labourite staff off our hands please? If nobody wants to take them on they could always get jobs with News International as they are giving them half of their stories anyway.
-Hatuey-
The dusty old fools of the establishment most certainly do stand a chance against unorthodoxy like a man in a dress proposing abolishing the police, a genuinely demented idea. Doesn’t bother me a man in a dress but it bothers a lot of people. If we go down the woke route we really are screwed.
-MaggieC-
Having Rhiannon round to Bute House illicitly for a consolation drink.
Like many others on the Wings site, I intend to give the ISP or indeed any new pro-Indy group my vote in May. Problem is, that outside in the wider world of Scottish politics, such a movement will fail unless a figurehead with gravitas comes forward to lead the party. I’m not slagging off the current leadership of any pro-indy group, but the plain facts are that people these days tend to vote on personalities.
For instance, if the ISP or AUOB or any other pro-indy party stand without a big named leader, then I would expect them to trail behind Farage’s new Anti-Lockdown party. Not because Farage has any new ideas for driving Scotland forward, but simply because he has a gravitas and a name people know.
That’s why it is crucial that a big name in the independence movement can be persuaded to jump ship from the SNP to the new vehicle for achieving our independence.
Peter s, I have suggested what we could or should do, maybe not in this particular writing, but it’s there within the last week or two,
Bawlis spending an additional £16.5 Billion on the Armed Forces when the UK is hemorrhaging money right left and centre due to Covid Pandemic and Brexit chaos still be paid for!
WTF is going on, has another money tree suddenly appeared?
The UK Ponzi Scheme must be nearly at an end?
Scotland it is the time to walk away from this London madness rule!
Meantime 1 in 4 of Scottish Children live in poverty and pensioners are paid less then half the average EU old age pension.
This Tory Government is an OBSCENITY !
The realpolitik situation Scotland finds itself in is quite precarious and depressing:
Westminster under Boris intends to strip the Scottish Parliament of any decent powers which it currently has.
The current SNP leadership doesn’t have the stomach to battle Westminster despite having the support of the Scottish people.
The EU isn’t prepared to go out on a limb for Scotland for fear of unsettling the Spanish and French.
The American’s won’t support an independent Scotland unless they are offered something very big in return (maybe a new Holy Loch?). As losing Trident would cost their Nuclear Industry a lot of money, given that they make Trident and service the system (and ultimately control the firing knobs).
Thus, where do we go from here? I sure as hell don’t know the answer, but people power is probably part of the solution. However without real leadership, that people power will never be harnessed.
Speaking from experience here, removing said SNP leadership will be akin to wrestling with an octopus. And with the festive season in mind, I would suggest that the entire party needs ‘pulled through with an upside down Xmas tree!’
@ Breeks 6.56pm Re the out for indy AGM there is no mention of a location or if it will be done online only, through tik tok or other media
Everyone’s favourite devolutionist Rhiannon is booked as a guest speaker
I also notice that there is a condition attached
*Only SNP members who identify as LGBTQ+ will be able to vote.
I don’t know if this is normal or legal under the SNP constitution but do SNP MEMBERS ONLY have the right to vote on certain groups within the SNP, would THAT not be considered exclusionary or MAYBE EVEN UNDEMOCRATIC , so that bans women and men members from having ANY SAY in certain aspects of the SNP party organisation
ALL very inclusive (not) I must say
@Ron Maclean:
> Henry Kissinger
I kinda feel you need to pick a better class of politician to get your quotes from.
Winning will be spinning in her grave to see what Sturgeon has made of her SNP.
The apparent acceptance of all things “Sturgeon”, the elevation to “dear leader” status by all too many, fills me with abject despair.
For all we Scots may sing and dance,stomp our feet, March our marches, pipe our pipes and wave our flags, we are nought, in the main, but a nation of sheep.
Fully knowing this, Westminster have,for centuries, required to still but a few of us.
Should a large section of the Sturgeoneejits not come to their collective senses right quickly, we do deserve all that’s coming to us.
Daisy , Boris and others I wittered on in a previous thread about the desperate need to ascertain whether a hundred of WE THE SOVEREIGN PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND could take a case to the ECJ and the ICJ siting the TOU I begged and pleaded for Robert Black QC , Bailey , Iain Mhor or anyone with legal expertise to advise us if that were possible
BREEKS and Lorna Campbell have posted it on numerous occasions the way to indy is through the TOU and the dissolution of the treaty through multiple breaches by England as the WM parliament, as Breeks states continuously Brexshit is the straw that would break the camel, but we NEED someone with courage to lead the CHARGE
NICOLA STURGEON NEED NOT APPLY
Well said twathater@2:38am. Polls are showing majorities for independence so the constitutional way is open.
Twathater @ 1.54 am
Breeks @ 6.56 pm
Re the Out for Indy Agm , I see from this tweet that its online ,
link to twitter.com
Date: 28/11/2020Time: 12:30-13.45
“ The meeting will take place via Zoom as a fringe event at @theSNP conference. Joining details will be circulated in the weeks ahead. After a successful year, Out for Independence are proud to host our first AGM since our 2019 relaunch! “
The question for me about the “ Out for Indy “ group is how they seem to have so much influence within the Snp when they only relaunched one year ago .
It all seems very strange and it makes you wonder exactly who is backing them from outwith the Snp
A Person: “The dusty old fools of the establishment most certainly do stand a chance against unorthodoxy like a man in a dress proposing abolishing the police, a genuinely demented idea.”
You didn’t explain how.
Robert Louis @ 10:11 pm
The European Commission President José Manuel Barroso said Scotland would have to leave the EU if the country voted for independence. What he should have said at the time was the whole of the UK would have to leave the EU. I do not think The Scotland Act 2016 receiving Royal Assent just weeks before the EU referendum was held is a coincidence. It has taken four years to implement the powers in act and ‘coinciddntally’ it has taken four years to get to UK ready to leave the EU.
The Internal Market Bill is interesting because the countries are clearly independent if the there needs to be ‘rules’ on the sale of goods and services to each other. Then there are the devolved powers the EU had whi h are returning to Scotland. Some of the powers, thanks to the foresight of the writers of the Scotland Act 2016, will be shared with the UK government probably because they have international agreements. Finally, Article 50 has five parts and if part five is used there are two possible outcomes, either a federal UK rejoins, or following the dissolution of the UK the countries rejoin.
I just watched this shocking nonsense by one of the ‘people’ that claims to be Tory leader. Behaving just like an infantile school bully, in my opinion. What a nasty individual.
link to twitter.com
@Robert Louis
“ Could it be that NS made a deal with the Uk gov, that she would allow brexit to actually happen, and in return, the ukgov would give their blessing to a section 30 thereafter, with some sutiably high level post for NS, somewhere like the UN, as her personal reward??”
For me, a more likely scenario is that the SNP are in fairly advanced negotiations about what iscotland looks like. Negotiations with who? Well the banking establishment for a start who have no intention of operating outside the EU. This is why Andrew Wilson’s sterling choice has been adopted by the party. So the banks continue their operations Edinburgh, Glasgow , rather than Frankfurt. There’s ‘big land’ too. You know the landowners we were supposed to sort out during devolution. They are being left to their own rapacious devices.
As George Kerevan observed, there’s a softening on the WMDs and a more welcoming approach to NATO, and of course the sell off of Scotland’s resources as a signal to the Uber capitalists that Scotland won’t cause them any trouble. This all makes independence (if you can call it that) much more palatable to the elites who pull the political strings at WM. It would also explain why all debate is being snuffed out at the conference. The decisions have been made. The deals are being done.
Boris spending big on the Military.
Can he see riots with Brexit food shortages?
Can he see riots with the millions unemployed?
Can he see the only way to keep robbing Scotland is to put soldiers on the street?
Can he see no one accepts £10.5 Billion of dodgy deals to Tories is a good thing?
Robert Louis @ 7:12
Aye dickhead Dross picking out one line of probably a longer statement , and a NOD ffs nit picking at it’s finest and expecting Mike Russel to fall for his subtle childish ploy , it didn’t work Dickhead so shut yer lying trap yah gbshite tory arse wipe , and that’s the politest comment I can make .
Robert Louis , thanks for that – what a total waste of space Dross is . Did he think he could do a contrived Paxman act?
Even Paxman admitted that he was told he had to delay as the next guest wasn’t present so he repeated his question to Michael Howard ad nauseam and his reputation was built up as a hard interviewer- quite erroneously.
There is no secret deal to allow a Section 30.
The behaviour of the Tories does not indicate that. In fact it’s the very opposite.
Setting up the WM HQ in Edinburgh, Boris calling devolution a disaster, Jack et al saying no referendum till 2040. Does any of that sound like part of a secret deal. Douglas Ross being peddled by the state broadcaster as the First Minister. He is on tv every day!
I now hear that WM are going to move daily Covid briefings to Edinburgh once a week! This is a takeover not a capitulation. Anyone who thinks there is a secret deal is imagining something that isn’t there.
I am afraid folks that the SNP have nothing to offer but bluster and tweets from Blackford. They have painted themselves into a corner.
My only hope is that our movement has the collective will to do this ourselves.
Robert Louis @ 7.12am
If DRoss could have red-carded Mike Russell there, he would have. What an obnoxius wee bawbag he is.
Big Jock says:
19 November, 2020 at 8:22 am
There is no secret deal to allow a Section 30.
The behaviour of the Tories does not indicate that. In fact it’s the very opposite.
I agree 100%. For a start, Sturgeon hasn’t the ability or cunning to negotiate one.
Believing there’s a secret deal on Section 30, I would presume, must be a rumour started to pacify the gradualists shoring up Sturgeon’s leadership.
o/t
Good to see Police Scotland have so much time on their hands that they are pursuing the disgraced former SNP MP who traveled when she suspected she was infected with this virus just the same way as Charlie HM Queenies wee boy and countless suspected sufferers traveled from England throughout Scotland in order to get tested because they couldn’t find a test centre in their own area of England .
The Metropolitan Police have dropped any further investigations because they don’t believe they have any evidence or proof of a crime has been committed under restrictions in force in England at the time of the incident.
I just hope they will approach the obvious vendetta against Alex with exactly the same Gusto as they are doing with this pointless inquiry that is only to please the media and the current leadership of the SNP
@Hatuey,
Universities are the breeding ground of the white woke middle class misogynists,not just students but staff and faculty.
link to archive.is
Jesus wept. Look at how emboldened this BritNat Unionist rag has become.
In fact, it’s so transparent what it’s doing, I think it’s safe to ignore it as you would any other troll.
I understand that some are looking for explanations for the SNP’s lethargy and incompetence regarding independence but if one were to apply the principle of Occam’s razor, then the SNP are simply lethargic and incompetent.
It is possible that there are other reasons for failing to deliver independence but I think ultimately it would be incompetence by another route.
Perhaps I’m wrong and there really is a secret plan that has been engineered over the last 6 years. A plan that Westminster has no idea about, a plan that will take them by surprise, a plan that will win independence in a single bound, a plan that is about to be utilised any moment now….or maybe not.
I think I’ll opt for Occam’s razor as greed and incompetence seem to be familiar bedfellows.
In fact, now I see it.
The proposed development on the Culloden battlefield has been rejected, (Well done all, especially AUOB), so obviously the Hootsman feels obliged to strike back for The Empire.
So it turns out via a few exchanged text messages between Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, that she was incredulous when she found out that Salmond had agreed to host a regular show on RT. Along with Salmond coming back into the fray and holding another indyref, this also might have sealed the deal on setting him up for a fall.
link to thenational.scot
Watched that video link with Dross.
What a pathetic petulant child who is devoid of intellect or manners.
He represents why Scotland has never given his party a majority in 65 years.
What is they don’t understand about 3 generations and counting want nothing to do with them.
Wrong meeting @Robert Louis says 18 November, 2020 at 10:11 pm
I’m more suspicious of the 2017 meeting between T May and NS at a hotel in Glasgow.
Why a hotel and not Bute House (I suspect so it could be private and not bugged etc.)
What was discussed?
I think whatever they have on NS and/or PM was laid out at that meeting and more importantly what the consequences would be if NS didn’t toe the WM line.
So Johnson is to splash the cash from the magic money tree and spend £16.5 billion on the military, the British nationalist media area already salivating like Pavlov’s Dog, broadcasting that Scotland will build thirteen new British warships.
Its the same old story every time the natives up North become restless to decide their own futures a PM at Westminster reveals a spending spree to thwart our desires, well not this time the carrot can dangle and dangle we’re not for taking it.
Me @ 8.20 pm yesterday,
More from the Harassment and Complaints Committee ,
From the written evidence page and only published now although most of it’s redacted ,
Nicola Sturgeon submitted additional written evidence to the Committee on 12 October 2020.
link to parliament.scot
And the link to Nicola Sturgeon’s original written evidence ,
link to parliament.scot
I posted a link to this article on FB
One friend whose intellect and integrity I respect enormously, who has no connection with the SNP other than voting for them, made the following comnent:
This stinks of the British state: no chance of beating the SNP in the polls so divide and conquer. The Brits have a long and successful history of this. Let’s not fall for it
How will the ISP counter this suspicion?
Breeks and others,
Regarding my post on a ‘secret deal’, I just put it up, since it was something that did cross my mind. Why? because I can see no rational reason whatsoever for the current approach by NS. In any other country run by a pro independence party, they would be well out the door of this odious treaty by now, but NOT the SNP.
It makes no sense. And really, IF (and I don’t think it at all likely) their were such a secret ‘deal’, it would mark the end of the SNP. The leadership would be guilty of misleading the electorate. deceiving party members, and would have zero credibility. In addition, such a ‘deal’ utterly destroys our constitutional rights, and was NOT what the SNP were elected to do.
If such a thing were to be the case, it would mark a level of breathtaking, deceit and corruption, rarely seen in democracies. So, it is unlikely.
But still I ask just WHY are the SNP and in particular NS, so determined to not only do nothing, but to openly and repeatedly TELL the Tories she will do nothing???
It makes no sense. Then again, I no longer trust or believe a single thing NS says. The SNP, the do-nothing party. fiddling while Scotland is trashed.
We will soon know.
Republicofscotland @9:13pm
Interesting letter, thanks. So if the parliament stopped sitting what is the relationship with the devolved administration? Are they one and the same? An initial guess says not. If it is the will of the people could the original parliament be reconvened and Holyrood simply ignored?
@Breeks, or anybody else, any chance of shedding some light on this apparent conundrum?
@Jockanese Wind Talker says:
19 November, 2020 at 11:07 am
Wrong meeting @Robert Louis says 18 November, 2020 at 10:11 pm
I’m more suspicious of the 2017 meeting between T May and NS at a hotel in Glasgow.
Why a hotel and not Bute House (I suspect so it could be private and not bugged etc.)’
The reasons suspected at the time, was NS had recently given several official briefings at Bute House to the Press, with Saltires on either side of her, etc – looking very presidential. It was suspected a hotel was chosen by WM/TM in order to prevent that.
With regards bugging of the meeting – that would happen where-ever.
@ ‘ScotsRenewables says:
19 November, 2020 at 11:22 am
I posted a link to this article on FB
One friend whose intellect and integrity I respect enormously, who has no connection with the SNP other than voting for them, made the following comnent:
This stinks of the British state: no chance of beating the SNP in the polls so divide and conquer. The Brits have a long and successful history of this. Let’s not fall for it
How will the ISP counter this suspicion?’
Reply – The SNP have been given all the rope Scotland and Indy supporters can afford to give them – with No Deal Brexit and Power Grab coming at us within months – the real Divide an Conquer is not with the ISP – but within the leadership of the SNP. ISP is potentially the lifeline – not the trap.
ScotsRenewables
> How will the ISP counter this suspicion?
That’s easy. We’re not voting for a one-party state, we’re voting for independence. It’s kind of surprising, given recent events, that people would confuse the two.
If anything, the dividing and conquering happened a long time ago with the creation of the Anglophile middle classes who decided that a future tied to England was a better prospect. With the demise of the Labour Party and the Conservatives that split is now being healed.
@Scots Renewables,
One friend ? You base your view on that of one friend?
I base mine on the actions of a whole party I used to respect. This has been brought about by their action\ inaction in all the wrong places at the wrong time.
The British State may well be involved but sadly it might well be with the hierarchy of the SNP you support rather than ordinary members of the SNP.
Robert Louis says:
19 November, 2020 at 11:22 am
Breeks and others,
Regarding my post on a ‘secret deal’, I just put it up, since it was something that did cross my mind. Why?…
Wasn’t being critical of the suggestion at all Robert, and apologies if that’s how I came across.
ScotsRenewables says: at 11:22 am
“I posted a link to this article on FB…”
Ahh, that immediately highlights the problem.
Anyone still using that skipfire of societal manipulation after it became clear big data and big money was using it for their own ends needs to wise the fuck up.
#BDS #BoycottDivestSanction
Oh good grief.
.
Let’s ignore opinion polls, anything ever posted on Facebook,the opinion of friends, long term supporters of indy, let’s just ignore everyone.
You do all know what an echo chamber is?
Odd indeed, ScotsRenewables.
For opinion polls I offer you to read the next article, for Facebook, read the comments that disagree with the current narrative, read any of the BTL posts from this years WoS articles for friends & long term supporters of Indy.
Yet miraculously, it’s everyone else who is in the echo chamber & you somewhat hypocritically claim others are ignoring everyone.
It’s bizarre, yes there is polarised opinion comparing btl here & say WGD both can be described as echo chambers.
You made some encouraging posts the other day about keeping an open mind until conference, then changed it to until after the election then back again.
i don’t know anyone on this forum personally, but I recognise your moniker as a long term contributor, so don’t doubt your desire for Independence, I just wish you were more consistent in what you say/think.
[…] November 18, 2020 admin 0 Views 0 Comments […]
@ Tommy at 2.08
If you mean Winnie Ewing, then good news:
She won’t be spinning in her grave, because she’s still alive. (aged 91)
What’s being said here is true, regarding how many aces Scotland holds (We have a few more in addition to these), and we’d be quite capable of using these factors to our advantage as a nation independent of the the UK and as well as the EU. I for one will not back any move to break away from the UK which is predicated on rejoining the EU. That would be utterly pointless; a bit like a prisoner escaping from Barlinnie only to turn himself in at San Quentin!
Good read, give them what they want type of post which I do agree with. They govern well the SNP, slick machine and appear to know what is best for Scotland to a degree. I am so tired of the inaction and coming to believe the biggest distraction to the goal has been to stuff the Holyrood with opposition seats through ‘Both Votes SNP’. All the votes wasted. Is this the modus! Hope I’m wrong.
A message directed at JULIE!
I clicked on the link to the IPS website and I think you have to explain more clearly WHY the list vote should go to the ISP candidate and not the SNP. You have to spell out the D’Hondt system of dividing the list vote by the number of seats won in the region.
Lets face it – only indemendence supporters are going to be visiting ad you can trust us to be interested enough to understand. It is neither ‘increasingly recognised’ that the SNP are’liely’ not to get…etc. That’s the whole point of the system – to prevent a majority for one party.
Other than that, best of luck – I will support and fund this best I can.
I never hear Sturgeon talking like this.
You have got my vote.