Taking the biscuits
Posted on
October 04, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Nice of someone to recognise their contribution.
And with a wafer from that nice old man Boyd Tunnock too…. a man who, if nothing else, proves that scum always rises to the surface.
Ah, Tunnocks. The unions favourite caramel wafer.
I prefer ALDI’s own, if truth be told.
Supported by Tunnocks eh…..
Salting the wound. Nice
Bought and sold for
English golda wafer biscuit.the symbolism of course is hard to avoid, they believe that they have devoured scotland.
Well off my shopping list.
Mess with my democratic process and I’ll mess with your profits.
I wonder who wrote it.
One of these?
Tim Hobden – Head of Press
Ben Rathe – Senior Press Officer
James Drummond – Senior Press Officer
Sam Barratt – Broadcast Officer
Charlotte Kelloway – Press Officer (Magazines and Features)
David Shaw – Press Officer (House of Lords)
or @LibDemPress
Should have given them Wagon Wheels to prop up their already shoogly contraption.
Well that takes the biscuit.
These people are in Government.
Scotland’s future in Scotland’s hands never made more sense.
Join the SNP.
No one is going to hand Indy to us on a plate.
We have to get into the kitchen
and make it for ourselves.
In the meantime, no more Tunnock’s.
Nor any Empire biscuits either.
We need to make sure that the Nay Sayers do not get so much as the crumbs from our table.
I joined the SNP. Do they have a biscuit?
The lib dumbs should hang on to the empty box. Will make an ideal venue for their conferences.
They’ll need to give away more than biscuits to save their sorry souls.
They will need to give away more than biscuits to save their sorry souls
Is that caramel made with salted butter as they do it in Brittany? (“caramel au beurre salé”)
The SNP will give you a shortbread instead. Much more yummy.
OT. Looks like Ruth Davidson is toast! Gleefully admitting to an event that is a criminal offence. I’m not saying she was involved in any criminal activity, but ignorance is no excuse in a court of law. Especially when you’re in a position of trust.
Hi, Posted this on earlier listing, but repeating here.
Watched a bit of Aljazeera tv this morning. There are two interesting programmes on tonight. Saturday 4th october
People+Power, it’s about fracking in the USA, 5.30 – 6pm.
Listening Post, it’s about the use of political satire, I saw a wee bit of it this morning and they were talking about how the Spanish have woken up to their STATE RUN tv, and have produced a satirical magazine with serious journalism (called Mongolia), 8.30-9pm It’s worth a look.
Gary
It is of course true, they did help save the union, at the expense of their credibility. I for one will never buy another Scottish daily newspaper. Viva the fifth estate.
Oh dear….hahahahahahahahaha
link to archive.today
I hope they recycled the thirty pieces of silver paper.
Oh and they should keep a hold of the empty cardboard box, never know when it might be useful.
And how many Libs are sitting there as they chew away on a Caramel wafer wondering what the future really holds for them and their party…
[…] Taking the biscuits […]
Never liked them that is LibDems as well as those so called biscuits.
OT: c16.30 in is rather disturbing.
“Saving the union” makes me sick to my stomach. Wish I lived in a time when stringing they bast**ds up would be cheered.
@ Nana Smith
Shouldn’t there be a full stop between get-together and before on the first line?
Libdem supporters here are actively encouraging people to vote Tory in 2015 even if it goes against the grain.
Its not much is it. Probably a crate of them just before future Lord Fozzie Carmichael of Help me Rona bumbled by.
Lib Dems crash in the GE whoopee
Labour crash in Scotland at the GE Yipee.
SNP/SSP/Greens and SDA ?? Form an alliance for independence and We go to the SE with a mandate for Home rule at least but independence if we are palmed off with the drivel on offer just now.
Taking us out of Europe against our will and removing the protection of Human Rights are points just for starters when folk are fed up hearing about the cuts coming.
Why the hell did my countrymen/women vote to stay in a union that will by 2020 be a social pariah out of Eu.
We have all the ammo we need . It’s time the parties ( SNP/Greens/SSP) started shouting out what is being done. Show them for what they are.
No more Mr Niceguy.
O/T
Anyone with an interest in the political acrobatics of Brian Wilson could do worse than check out the Scotsman ‘perspective’ piece today. The usual anti SNP diatribe even manages to include criticism of Jim McColl’s welcome intervention in saving Ferguson’s in Glasgow.
According to Wilson there should be an enquiry into this rescue that Wilson grudgingly accepts through gritted teeth was ‘welcome’. “Could liquidation of the long established company have been avoided through earlier Scottish Government intervention?”
Wilson, pigmy of the Scottish political scene proceeds thus: “Fortunately there was UK legislation in place which paid the Ferguson workers’ redundancy money and protected their pension rights.”
‘Blow to Salmond as Fergusons saved’ could be the headline.
No further comment is required.
link to archive.today
A.N.Surgent
During the French Revolution, the aristocrats were guillotined in front of cheering crowds. In fact the ‘Vielle dame’ would bring their knitting along, as it usually formed the only entertainment they had and it took most of the day 🙂
Most famous ‘recipient’ of the guillotine was Marie Antoinette, who said let them eat cake (or was it Tunnocks?) when told the peasantry could not afford bread
If the LibDems, with 56 seats,
can hold the balance of power at Westminster
and then form a coalition Government
then so can 50 or so Independence MP’s.
A tantalizing thought !
Ah ! … the state media finally get recognition at last.
What a shower; evidence that democracy is alive and well in the UK ?(in print anyway)
@ Tam Jardine, but its interesting to watch all the bettertogether campers like say Wilson attacking anything and everything about Scottish democracy now, not just SNP Scots.gov. In England its all been ditched now but the UKOK fight still rages on up here.
Actually hadn’t realised the Lib dems were having their annual party conference in Glasgow (well I don’t really pay much attention to minor foreign political interest groups)
Take it they are in some hostelry with suitable function room
Translates as ‘please don’t say anything mean about us in the run up to the GE’. Transparent and pathetic.
Who is getting Paul’s cereal?
Say yes to making the yellow Tories history in next years general election.
There’s a very funny tweet of a big auditorium with about three people in it. I’m guessing it was maybe taken at a break because even they can’t be that bad.
@Tam Jardine
I have no idea where Brian Wilson belongs but his political life has had all the integrity of a certain ‘Benedict Arnold’ and I am sure he will be held in similar eteem by all Scots after independence occurs.
Is there a more identifiable bile spouting SNP hater ?
Edward
Let them eat tunnocks, can picture the queen saying that while purring down the phone to cameron.
More new pro-Independence sites appearing;
link to scottishstatesman.com
Here’s the picture of the LibDem venue.
link to mobile.twitter.com
We’ve missed a trick there lads n lasses, we should have crowd funded for Aldi’s FIG ROLLS a packet to each Journalist & 4 for Nick Clegg,the only movement in Tunnocks wafers as with the FIG ROLLS, ITS DOWNWARDS.
That pic is funny @Morag! Hope it’s true!
Agree the Tunnocks thing is like salt in the wound, still feeling very raw, and all the crap out of the Tory conference not helping. Feel utterly appalled at the scrapping Human Rights thing – we must look like complete arseholes to the world.
The Libdems should have kept the wafers for themselves, they could have had them with their tea, watching afternoon tv when they have no jobs to go to after the general election.
We stopped buying from this unionist company a couple of years ago – home made isn’t full of jobbie (however ‘one’ spells shite)
What – no ginger nuts?
Paula Rose
Oh Missus – behave. 🙂
Valerie
no! we are not fools, nor do we look like fools to the world, we stood up and loudly said, “look! the empires got no clothes on.”
foolishly some clung on to their foolish delusions of empire.
@Edward
Except she never said any such thing. It was a pamphlet put out in order to help whip the mob up to storm the Bastille that started the libel.
Something the BBC would have been proud of, except in their case going after a mild mannered university prof.
In victory, as nasty as ever, or one rule for the rich champion sez
link to archive.today
with sane charming ligger ending “And on that note, when will the Yes side take No for an answer?”
I’m thinking when THE VOW actually happens and signed by PM Cameron in particular…
link to wingsoverscotland.com
18th Sept publishing of “further powers” sailed past and nothing happened so at a rough guess, next 21st Oct deadline for “command paper” will do exactly the same and ofcourse go completely unreported by Comical Cockers etc.
Could somebody explain how Gordon Brown could take the 100,000 signature petition, if it wasn’t his?
“You’ve helped save the Union”
“Helped”? HELPED!?!
Iraq & Syria – Oh What a Lovely War or How the Hell Did We End Up Here Again?
link to caltonjock.com
Nick Clegg (who?-ed) is apparently saying that HE is guarantor of new Scottish powers if you re-elect his sad bunch of Scottish MPs next year. There seems to be no depths this party will sink to, in order to hang onto their wee pretend powers. Let’s get rid.
Here’s another LibDem conference snap.
link to mobile.twitter.com
If anyone was still remotely hoping for new powers from devo-zero
this will finally dash your hopes.
link to telegraph.co.uk
Put that through archive today and it didn`t work. Sorry 🙁
@Taranaich
Yes ‘helped’ as in lied to the electorate.
Incredible – on the verge of disappearing off the political map and their two final gestures are Clegg saying he is the guarantor of the Vow (student fees, anybody?) and handing out biscuits.
Meant the 31st Oct for their THE VOW Command paper! Not that it makes any odds. Then its 31st Nov for White paper with agreed devo plan. As if any of that is ever going to happen in a million years. Sorry so OT there.
link to archive.today
Got it right this time.
@Brian Powell
I asked 38 degrees that very question and received a reply. For some reason I’m unable to post it here, there must be something in it which is rejected by this site.
Anyhow the gist of it is the petition was started y 38 degree members and already had 80,000 signatures when Broon highjacked it.
I have again written to tell them that according to news reports Broon is effectively saying it is ‘his’ petition and because of that I want my name withdrawn.
@A.N.Surgent
It takes a while.
link to archive.today
are there more MSM @ libdem conference, than libdems?
they must be bored by now.
idea! go to perth, coz apparently no MSM there.
can it be true they are not interested in democracy, but serving imperialism?
Morag
Brilliant pic- ‘Winning here’!!!
I fished about on the lib dem website and you may be able to watch the action. I have yet to see a crowd shot. Police Scotland are rumoured to have recorded 350 people in attendance but that seems to just be a default number they go to.
youtu.be/6Oz1sv6-WT0
The footage was elusive on their website and left me feeling slightly sad. Definitely drowning, not waving.
I’ll try again:
link to youtu.be
@Morag
Wafer thin audience. 😉
Ok – 3rd time lucky – try finding it on their website (if you are so inclined)
link to libdems.org.uk
I sent the following e-mail to matt.roper@stv.tv
Subject: Re: The news item on Gordon Brown and a Petition
Re: the news item posted today at 09:08 am, headlined:
“Gordon Brown says more than 105,000 have signed devolution petition”
The article leads with this statement, printed in bold type:
“Former prime minister Gordon Brown has said more than 105,000 people have put their names to his petition demanding that David Cameron honour the vow to transfer more powers to Scotland made in advance of the independence referendum.”
Can you confirm that Gordon Brown used the phrase “my petition”?
If he did not, then the use of the possessive “his” in the leading statement of the article is inaccurate. Unless you can verify that Gordon Brown is the originator of the petition, then this report is misleading.
Kindly amend the wording accordingly, for accuracy.
UK GOVERNMENT GUIDELINES ON ABUSE 2013
link to gov.uk
Last updated: 25 November 2013,
The cross-government definition of domestic violence and abuse includes:
any incident or pattern of incidents
of controlling, coercive, threatening behaviour . . .
Re the relationship between Westminster and Scotland,
does any of the following seem applicable:-
Controlling behaviour
Controlling behaviour is a range of acts
designed to make a person subordinate
and/or dependent by isolating them
from sources of Support,
exploiting their resources
and capacities for personal gain,
depriving them of the means needed for independence, resistance and escape
and regulating their everyday behaviour.
Re The Referendum. The No campaign –
does any of the following seem applicable:-
Coercive behaviour
Coercive behaviour is an act or a pattern of acts
of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation
or other abuse that is used
to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.
“Domestic violence and abuse is unacceptable and tackling the issue is a priority for the government.”UKGov.
While the guidelines are specifically for ‘domestic’ abuse it requires very little stretch of the imagination to apply the definitions contained herein to the Union between our 2 countries.
Can there be any doubt that the relationship between Westminster and Scotland is abusive ?
Or, that the conduct of the Referendum on the part of the UK Gov was also abusive ?
Is there no authority in this land to press the case against the UK Government ?
@Morag – ouch. I hope that’s not a main event. Or do I? 🙂
As for Nick Clegg being a guarantor for anything, what’s he putting up as collateral? His past history in keeping promises? Aye right.
Nah. This is up to us and our pro-Indy MSPs and Ministers as a team and we have 2015 to look forward to and fight for. Hold fast, mes amis.
Try again.
link to modernscotsman.com
“No one is going to hand Indy to us on a plate.
We have to get into the kitchen
and make it for ourselves.
In the meantime, no more Tunnock’s.
Nor any Empire biscuits either.”
Spare a thought for the workers that produce and distribute the products from Tunnock’s Uddingston factory. The probability is that they contributed to the Yes majority in N Lanarkshire.
Also, I am not aware of Boyd Tunnock putting the frighteners on his employees by threatening, to move south in the event of a no vote. As far as I can see, he is not untypical of his generation in having a sentimental attachment to the union.
I’ll save my ire for the Michelle Mones and Gordon Browns of this land.
cynicalHighlander
Copied the wrong url, I need a computers for dummys book. 🙂
Suzanne, I think someone tweeted that the first picture was taken just after they’d broken for lunch! The second one was during a speech though.
After going into coalition with the Tories, the Lbs are history.
We need to make sure the SNP take as many seats as possible in the 2015 Westmidden elections. No other Indy party can.
It’s going to be five party politics down there after the election. We want to make sure the SNP are the 3rd UK level party!
And, we want more SNP than Unionist MPs in Scotland so Westmidden has no mandate to rule.
This is achievable!
@ Heedtracker
31st November… you’re absolutely right, it aint going to happen! 🙂
manandboy
quite right, that’s exactly what they have TRIED to do to us.
but it is more like having abusive parents, than anything else. BT, UKOK, best of both worlds, “coz i say so!”
Gordon Brown has hijacked the petition. he is setting up a stall in Cowdenbeath today, then he is going to present the petition to the Westminster Parliament.
“I urge both Yes and No voting Scots to sign the petition on the vow of a stronger Scottish Parliament…”
link to news.stv.tv
Is this what Scotland voted NO for?
Caz-m, wish I had known I would have taken a detour round to Cowdenbeath for the pleasure of insulting him.
Uddingston is South Lanarkshire but that’s not to say some of the workers don’t live in North Lanarkshire. I’ve also not bought any Tunnocks products since I heard which way Mr Tunnock was voting. Belmont’s from Aldi are just as good.
Cyril Smith would have loved them.
After seeing the conference hall I was wondering if they got it cheap. I doubted that they could fill a telephone box, as for Tunnocks, never liked their wafers or their teacakes and anyway am on a diet so they can stuff them in the same place as Mackies disgusting ice cream, Baxters over salted soup and if they have any money left pop it into the Royal Bank of Northern Cringe and invest in Standard not life.
Where is the conference anyway? I don’t recognise it off-hand.
You cannot hope
to bribe or twist,
thank God! the
British journalist.
But, seeing what
the man will do
unbribed, there’s
no occasion to.
(Humbert Wolfe, epigram from “The Uncelestial City)
A whole box of caramel wafers just for journalists? But that’s two dozen each!
Ah, I see, they’re going to share them with all the delegates.
I’m guessing the organisers couldn’t find any foodbanks near the SECC.
@ donald anderson
I thought that at dinner parties Cyril preferred to pass round the Under Eights? allegedly
Blackford Wheeler says:
4 October, 2014 at 3:00 pm
“No one is going to hand Indy to us on a plate.
We have to get into the kitchen
and make it for ourselves.
In the meantime, no more Tunnock’s.
Nor any Empire biscuits either.”
Spare a thought for the workers that produce and distribute the products from Tunnock’s Uddingston factory. The probability is that they contributed to the Yes majority in N Lanarkshire.
BW, albeit that Uddingston is on the border with North Lanarkshire(Yes), and may include some workers from that area, nevertheless, Uddingston is of course in South Lanarkshire (No) and as such many of Tunnock’s employees will live in and vote with their South Lanarkshire No voting friends and neighbours. Impossible to tell of course the numbers of Yes/No voters in Tunnocks, but in any event, with a strong export market, a drop in local sales wouldn’t affect them that much IMO.
When they say ‘the length and breadth’ of Britain and then only mention places in England I think they need oor very own Robert Peffers to explain some things to them 🙂
Hopefully the person who made that petition can come forward ASAP and tell Brown where to go.
Edward
It was actually Brioche, not cakes.
Be careful as in French they call biscuits (French word meaning cooked twice) gateau, meaning also cake.
Brioche is a sort of rich buttery eggy sweetened “bread”
manandboy N Lanarkshire
That was N Lenzie and part of the new finger of Bishopbriggs which spreads over the back road towards Lenzie.
Brioche is very pleasant
On that 38 degrees poll, I don’t think it started out as Brown poll. I signed it early on. I think I signed it twice as 38 degrees don’t seem too sorted as to has and hasn’t signed the myriad of petitions swirling about at the moment and getting reminders to sign it confused me into signing again. I assume they will delete double entries.
Tommy Sheriden organising a meet in George Sq on 12th October, needs funds.
Donate if you can/want.
link to gofundme.com
It says it all really, I doubt it very much if the SNP will receive such tasty treats, from Boyd Tunnock when they hold their conference next month.
Oh for the good old days
when you could post a comment
and it would appear in the blog almost instantly.
Nevermind, a solution will offer itself before long
and all will be well – who am I kidding?
BTW when I was a laddie, we used to get a bag of Tunnock’s
wafers from a wee shop down the road from my school
– minus the chocolate – for a penny.
That was before Neo-Liberalism.
They were the days.
Then came the swinging sixties.
After that everything started to go downhill
and now, we’re about to go over the edge
as maniacal greed consumes the ruling classes.
But not before we see the eradication
of the poor,the feckless and the disabled thru’ euthanasia.
How the champagne will flow among the Tories
when that happens – their wildest dreams come true.
That will be the last dance of their insane delight
– before we all go to hell.
Apologies if this has been posted already.
Latest from Will McLeod (Netroots Radio) His report on Devo whatever. Well worth a listen.
link to dailykos.com
@gordoz:
Yes, Alex Johnstone wins the title of bile spewing SNP hater. Check out his last article in the Mearns leader for proof of that.
New Independent Scottish newspaper coming out. Hope link works.
pbs.twimg.com/media/BzDm2H6CYAI_w6B.jpg:large
Try again.
So does this mean the very Rev is back, haeing warmed his cockles, flexed his mussels, slurped back his jellied eels, sharpened his teeth on rock and flossed his candies? He’ll have had his whelks then.
I don’t see what all the fuss is about. 48 caramel wafers between them, that’s two each!
If we go down and offer to sign up, do you think they’ll share them out? 😀
“It says it all really, I doubt it very much if the SNP will receive such tasty treats, from Boyd Tunnock when they hold their conference next month.”
I don’t think they can afford to donate so many – after all they would require 75,000 plus – a costly exercise.
Much better to go for the cheap option of the unliberal, undemocratic select few!
I’m sure that there’s a joke in there about journalists having ‘schlepped with the enemy’, but to be honest, I cannot be faffed finding it.
…there is nothing funnier after that bloke Nick and his punch-line stating that he will be our guarantor.
Talk about a drowning man…grabbing onto anything that floats by…(cue next joke re: things of no use that float)
Of more importance; has anyone got any thoughts on Robin McAlpine and the Common Weal project?
link to allofusfirst.org
I’ve been reading through their latest literature and am finding something attractive in what is being said, promoted and sought after.
I have already made comment via this blog about looking for a Scottish grass root collective voice that can calm all the ‘noise’ circulating out there. A focal point that will ultimately include action of bringing the various opinions out there into focus.
Given that May 2015 is not that far off, I wish to play my part in ensuring that the post-2014 momentum is not lost in a tangle of well intentioned disarray.
Can we discuss?
@Donald mac
Jeezus : I stand corrected !
Reeks of hatred, not just SNP; all things Scottish.
Nana Smith
Pete Wishart got the same reply from 38Degrees as yourself ie that there were 800,000 names on the petition prior to Gordy showing an interest in it
Liz
When can I order the new Scottish Independent paper long long overdue. Looks brilliant
Has it come to this, in the sad remnants of a decaying and moribud democracy, with an impartial, earnest, non-aligned, investigative and politically incorruptible press corps, that journalists can be bribed with a single packet of out of date water-damaged Tunnocks wafers?
Stupid question!
I put an extra o in my last post sorry, not 800,000 ought to have been 80,000
Apparently, Tunnocks have put up a petition on 38 degrees to ask for another referendum next year, as their profits are starting to drop again.
The thing about Tunnocks Tea Cakes is they don’t contain a dollop of jam – and they won’t tomorrow either, so just the thing for a Unionist tea party. 🙂
@John Thompson – not sure it was only put up on twitter today. If I get any more info will post up as lots asking where to get it.
Tunnocks Tea Cakes – Jammy Dodgers.
mutiny on the BOUNTY
Devo Max
link to theguardian.com
Should be fun. What price another coalition Westminster for Scotland? Devo Max. They keep the oil and hang union jacks across my country for as long as they like, cringers stay British. Pity about Trident though.
Labour in Scotland have a lot of work to do, no matter how sleekit BBC propaganda’s got over their vote NO campaigning.
Mcpuss
I have a lot of time for robin, a real revelation
But the means to bring about his revolution was by voting yes in the ballot box
He retains his vision, one I share btw, but the only means to bring it about is via the ballot box. An issue he completly forgets to mention in his article. The only way that this movement will not dry up and dissapear is if we vote snp in May in huge numbers.
Rem3mber the egg-thrower in Kirkaldy and the speed at which his case was brought to court and dealt with?
Anyone heard anything as to the assaults Glasgow Sq on the 19th?
Not seen anything in the news, strange…
Guardian article
link to archive.today
Mince would of been more appropriate.
I remember Boyd Tunnock was reportedly embarassed at this headline:
link to thefreelibrary.com…-a060926449
“CALAMITY BOUGHT HIS AFRICAN QUEEN WITH 4 CARAMEL WAFERS; Skipper’s hooker given Tunnock’s”
Imagine how much more embarrassed he will be to discover the Lib Dems currying favour with them.
@gordoz,
Next week’s Mearns Leader letters page could be interesting;)
I was in George Sq the evening of the 17th and never have I felt a feeling of such warmth and happiness. I want that feeling back again – the start is next Saturday’s Hope over Fear rally – Let them all see the other side of NO
Tunnocks wafers…the uneatable offered as a bribe to the unspeakable.
Crumbs, help ma boab, the Lib Dems: a bunch of ‘crackers’ ‘yo yoing’ and ‘hob nobbing’ between one party of ‘Brittanias’ and ‘Bourbons’ trying to be the ‘jaffa’ in control of Westminster or to end up ‘viscounts’…but in reality showing themselves up as ‘fat rascals’ (Yorkshire biscuit, if you really want to know).
That aside…o/t I’m finding it hard to watch BBC still spewing out propaganda. Hardest to digestive (sorry!) is the ebola virus of reporters: Eleanor Bradford (back to fat rascals…naw that’s Jackie Baillie, her bestest friend).
Eleanor, scourge of the nasty Scottish NHS hit a new low on her latest ‘expose’ of a sectioned anorexic. Interviewing her frightened parents and making ‘news’ out of a human tragedy.
And the BBC used the ‘half million deficit’ quote in relation to a management discussion document ‘leaked’ (by whom?)…which I recall the fragrant Eleanor reporting as £400,000…. a bit like all her stats…just out and out lies.
Whatever happens before the GE, we must bring down or disable the BBC first and foremost, otherwise the narrative will be Tories v Labour with the SNP/YES coalition sidelined.
Two years ago I spoke to Blair Jenkins and begged him to personally attack the BBC. He refused to do so. If there is any doubt regarding its toxicity….why did AS have to phone in to Louise White to defend the abolition of Poll Tax arrears??
Why since then has the BBC allowed continual Tory/Nay sayers to distort and diminish this wonderful political action as anything less than a noble democratic act?
I refused to pay the poll tax..in the end my wages were arrested. But others went to jail. These tory scum that demand their money back because of ‘dodgers’ being ‘let off’ are either too young, too stupid, or too fucking mean to remember or understand who imposed this illegal and undemocratic tax!
We are witnessing Thatcher mark 2 and these greedy mean spirited fools are too blind to see the agenda: punish and frighten the poor ‘yes’ first or late comer voters.
Or maybe they ain’t. Either way the fight is on and we must go on the offensive all the way from now until the GE and beyond!
Re Scottish Independent newspaper, I live down south so hope there will be an online version I can subscribe to.
Oh well,
Shouldn’t be shocked by the photo. At least nick clegg will have some welcome respite chewing a wafer rather than biting a pillow.
Husband – think I will cut down to just one Sunday paper.
Me – yes what about cutting out the Sunday Post (fingers crossed).
Husband – Yeah, ok then.
Me – very quietly, RESULT !!! (2 years subtle campaigning).
@McPuss – I think the consensus in the Yes movement is the removal of as many Labour MP’s from Scotland in the 2015 GE. I have signed up to noredtories hoping they can co-ordinate some action.
link to noredtories.co.uk
Also you can check your constituency results from the 2010 GE and see what kind of job is on our hands..
link to electoralcalculus.co.uk
If the outcome of the 2015 GE is a hung parliament with the SNP possibly in a position to hold the balance of power then surely there are a couple of problems here:
1) Isn’t it SNP party policy never to enter any coalition witht he Tories?
2) Isn’t it also SNP party policy in WM to vote ONLY on Scottish issues i.e. they abstain from votes relating to the rUK?
If this is the case then I fail to see how the SNP could be an effective coalition partner for any of the WM Unionist parties. This, if the SNP can’t ever be an effective coalition partner, how can it ever be in a position of holding the balance of power to extract concessions from WM?
@Schrödinger’s cat
Totally agree and so too does Tommy Sheriden. It really shouldn’t matter what your personal preferences are in terms of political party or policies.
The pro-indy parties have one common goal and that is ridding ourselves of poisonous Westminster governance. We need to send a message a very strong message in the 2015 election.
Only one plausible way to do that. Vote and support SNP in 2015.
Proud Cybernat
The aim is not to hold the balance of power in wasteminister, but to rid Scotland of the unionist parties esp. slab. Then elect only
pro-indy parties in the Scottish elections in 2016,therefore giving them no mandate whatsoever to rule Scotland
Lib Dem conference in Glasgow explains why Vince Cable and “dead MP walking” Jo Swinson were getting shown around my workplace yesterday. Head down and ignore them policy adopted. Seemed to accompanied by the usual bevvy of hingers on. Like an episode of “The Thick of It”.
For those who haven’t been reading it, the wee ginger dug’s ascerbic wit has been in fine form over the past few days.
His latest piece skewers the immorality of the morally bankrupt British Labour in Scotland (AKA red tories). Here;
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Magnificient writing.
Proud Cybernat: “SNP party policy”
It was also “SNP party policy” NOT to join NATO, things can change!.
@Schrödinger
I have read & listened to Robin, and where you and I are perhaps differing on this is the fact I have actually read his proposal to put up ‘anti-austerity’ candidates in every WM constituency for GE 2015…hence fight tactically via the vote.
The Weal is actually advocating placing the most appropriate ballot box warrior applicable for the local area, eg a Green candidate for Morningside, or a SSP for Glasgow East.
I know this has already been mooted by others, but the Common Weal is growing in stature, and here perhaps is the focus we are needing?
There is an impressive list of contributors & Directors to the Weal:-
Cat Boyd, trade union activist and co-founder of Radical Independence Campaign
Ross Colquhoun, Director of National Collective
Malcolm Fraser, architect and Founder of Architects for Change
Pat Kane, musician, writer and member of Yes Scotland Board
Isobel Lindsay, vice-convener of Scottish CND
Ivan McKee, Director, Business for Scotland
Peter McColl, Scottish Green Party
Lesley Orr, Engender and researcher in gender based violence and wider gender justice
Tommy Sheppard, Stand Comedy Club
Mike Small, Editor of Bella Caledonia
Elaine C Smith, actor and Board Member of Yes Scotland
Willie Sullivan, Compass Scotland and Electoral Reform Society
Phillippa Whitford, cancer surgeon and NHS Yes
Jean Urquhart, independent MSP
In no way does the existence and support of the likes of the Weal preclude the needs of WoS, Bella, NNS etc as we still need to reflect all voices of opinion. But as a conduit towards the ballot box, I personally find their growing credentials impressive.
I should have stated earlier; my motivation towards finding an alternative in the likes of the Weal is borne from my sheer frustration at the gentile & toothless approach adopted by the YES campaign which had me at times biting my hand.
But rather than waste any further time bitching about lost chances, I’m surging forward.
Proud cybernat @ 5:53pm
You are right on both points. Ruth Davidson is talking mince (as usual). The SNP indeed never vote on English only matters at Westminster (so not really much point in a coalition then), and the idea they would wish to go into a coalition with Tories is fanciful, to say the least.
Twenty14 @ 5:31pm
I too had the same feeling you describe. We were on the cusp of something great, a new Scotland. Our time will come, sooner than most people think. The upcoming rallies can only be a force for good. Every rally speech should begin; ‘we the people..’
Is their any truth in the story circulating Facebook that thon other wretch, Sir Ian Wood has been awarded a fracking contract?
Thoughts on this folks –
link to faintdamnation.wordpress.com
@Proud Cybernat
Under those circumstances, SNP would be daft to form a coalition. They would also be daft to effect English legislation as a trade off for concessions. The moral high ground would need to be maintained. They could support or oppose legislation effecting Scotland on a case by case basis. This would definitely be to our benefit.
The value I see is to deny either Tory or Labour the mandate to rule Scotland.
Then we have the 2016 Holyrood election. If Indy parties hold a majority, and the Unionist failed to deliver DevoMax / Home Rule as promised, then I consider it time for IndyRef II.
@Croompenstein
I think we are singing off the same song sheet.
Let’s just hope we don’t go off key as we reach the final movement
Indeed they did help save the union,but surely they get more than a wafer biscuit?
@E F
I believe the contract was awarded last week.
You may get some info here…
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
O/T
Hater of all things NON-Anglo-saxon, Jeremy Clarkson, has been caught out again.
This time him and his crew were chased out of Argentina by an angry mob. They were furious with the number plate Clarkson had on his car, H982 FKL.
The BBC said it was a complete coincidence that the number looked like 1982 Falklands, the year the British were victorious in war against Argentina in the Falklands War.
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
Clarkson is a really nasty man who should be sacked for inciting the locals to turn violent once again.
He is in the same mould as Jonathan Ross and Piers Morgan.
Plonkers.
Paula Rose
I read that article a couple of days ago. It does have some interesting theories which may or not be correct. One I do agree with is that the pension uncertainties should have been nipped in the bud at the outset of the referendum campaign. It was allowed to fester. If you travelled on a Dundee bus near to polling day was the number of pensioners moaning about how they would lose their pensions if there was a Yes vote. Trying to placate them was difficult. Having the NO campaign controlling the media did not help. Maybe we were too ‘nice’.
@BtP:
Be careful as in French they call biscuits (French word meaning cooked twice) gateau, meaning also cake.
Brioche is a sort of rich buttery eggy sweetened “bread”
It’s difficult to put exactly across what a brioche is. The best way is just to eat some.
And the best brioche is the “gâche” from Vendée (a “woven” brioche).
As for the wafers, try the Belgian ones.
Paula Rose
That faintdamnation totally ignores the NO voters who wanted more powers, and, worse, treats them as though they didn’t want more powers. Half-way down:
“As you can see, the proportion of the electorate registering its opposition to new powers for Scotland was dramatically higher in 2014 than in any previous referendum”
No, it wasn’t. Didn’t read the rest, it would continue from a false premise.
@ proud cybernat
“If this is the case then I fail to see how the SNP could be an effective coalition partner for any of the WM Unionist parties. This, if the SNP can’t ever be an effective coalition partner, how can it ever be in a position of holding the balance of power to extract concessions from WM?”
Obviously WM would have to make a deal as an urgent priority?
caz-m
Detest the man,pity the Argentinians only threw rocks at him.
Will EBC use this for an excuse to go to war with them. Argentina not to popular with the usa at the moment for daring to give two fingers to the bankers.
Frack gas wells are several thousand feet beneath any water aquifers that may be used locally.
The real tragedy for Scotland and indeed England is that fracked gas could have been used to build a Norwegian style state pension fund. Instead its all going to go to the teamGB super rich.
link to nationalcollective.com
Admittedly Sir Ian Wood makes Taylor look like a street trader at the Barras but even so. Thanks again, naw thanks.
E F + Nana Smith
Scotland has a lot of open pits
link to publicintegrity.org
Not really related, but after yet another snide condescending response from ‘man of the people’ Tom Harris MP I decided a response was due:
Tom,
Thank you for your cursory & glib response to my email RE the above. There are a few points for which I require clarification.
Firstly, perhaps you can enlighten me as to how an MP of the opposition can make ANY assurances whatsoever as to the scope and timescales or indeed the delivery of these ill defined ‘new powers’, I suppose that in this respect you do share something in common with your back bench colleague Gordon Brown. Neither you, him or any members of the opposition can offer assurances on something which is not yours to give. There also seems to be a bit of confusion between you and your Better Together Colleagues as to the dictionary Definition of the word ‘Vow’ so please allow me to assist here:
From the Oxford Dictionary
Vow , noun, A solemn Promise
As in the famous song ‘I Vow to thee my Country’, originally a poem by Sir Cecil Spring Rice, set to music by Gustav Holst.
I have to say that nowhere in any dictionary definition did I find any reference to a vow having to be backed up by a ’38 Degrees’ online petition asking Scottish people to demand that this Vow was upheld. By hijacking this petition your colleague and failed former PM Gordon Brown has pretty much confirmed that the Vow isn’t worth the paper it was written on (That this vow was written on the front page of the Daily Record pretty much confirms it’s value). I don’t think the above mentioned song would have had the same impact if it was called ‘I Vow to thee (but just in case, can you and 99,999 other people sign my online petition) my country’. it would take the rap skills of someone like Eminem to fit that to music.
Secondly, you refer to the SNP’s Yes campaign. I am sure that you as an MP with an interest in keeping an eye on the political landscape will be aware of the following organisations – The Green Party, The SSP, RIC, Labour for Independence, Women for Independence etc etc etc, none of which to the best of any ones knowledge are a part of the SNP. A point worth noting as regards the SNP, Green Party & SSP is that their memberships are rocketing whilst in Scotland the Labour party is holed below the waterline and rapidly sinking due to the ‘Scottish’ Labour Party’s total and utter betrayal of the principles on which it was founded.
Thirdly, you state that your retaining your seat as an MP will prevent David Cameron from remaining Prime Minister. In this regard It is I suppose encouraging to see a Labour MP remaining true to the past of the Labour Party. It is unfortunate that the only link you retain with the Labour Party of old is the perpetuation of the myth that Scottish Labour MP’s hold the balance of power in Westminster elections. Well, you know what they say, you can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. It is a simple and verifiable fact that the contingent of Scottish Labour MP’s very rarely has any impact on the balance of Westminster Power.
I would wish you well in your future career but as this is about to come to a sudden & catastrophic halt next year for you and many other Scottish Labour MP’s there probably isn’t much point. I suppose that you can be grateful that when you are ‘retired’ you will get a pension far in excess of your worth as a valuable member of Society.
Regards (& with more sincerity than the level of contempt which you seem to have for your electorate).
Robert I Sinclair
will buy the new paper every day when it comes out.
but really came on here to see what the score was re Ruth Davidson and breaking the law has she been cleared/charged or what
@ SquareHaggis re; George square arrests. Police Scotland made more than 200 arrests, mostly for b.o.p. , but publicly stated 11 to play down incident.
@Bob Sinclair
Ouch!
I hope that kick in the chuckies hurt. Nice one.
Capella
They could do on a per issue per vote basis, without any formal coalition, like they ran Holyrood for their first tour of Government.
I thought the preferred biscuit for the unionists was an Empire one?
@heedtracker
Fracking US and UK are not the same as our shale is far closer to the surface than the US which is why fracking should not even be considered here.
@ Bob Sinclair
Gtroundskeeper Willie has form with treating e-mails and letters from anyone with whom he disagrees with contempt.
He will file it in his bucket and he may just may send you a dismissive thank you response.
Disgusting troughing character, and he makes no pretence to be anything else.
The BBC are about to lose the licence fee, they’re going to go ppv. 🙂
I read something about that, but it would seem to need a hoge technical shake-up.
Huge, even.
I can’t wait to see Danny Alexander’s speech.
In fact, I had to go and look up his magnificent 2013 address to the faithful – it’s been viewed 240 times in the last year! That’s amazing!
And I’ve just realised it’s Saturday night and I’m watching Danny Alexander speeches on Youtube! (sob, dribble, sniff…)
link to youtube.com
Bob Sinclair
Bullseye! You didn’t miss him Bob, very well put.
We should all take a copy of that email you sent (with your permission) and send it onto our own Unionist MPs, only change the name to our local MP.
Ever wondered what Danny Alexander looks like when he’s half-pished, and what his chat-up lines might be like?
Wonder no more! (go to approx 45 secs) –
link to youtube.com
Ian Brotherhood says
“And I’ve just realised it’s Saturday night and I’m watching Danny Alexander speeches on Youtube! (sob, dribble, sniff…)”
You are a very sad man unlike me who is er, out having,er fun, ah!
Hope the lying shits choked on those stinking unionist biscuits. Reporting on a bunch of irrelevant rim jobs. F***in nice work. Dicks.
Snode1965,
Thanks for that.
Been trying to find the records to see if anyone actually appeared in court.
I remember the case of the egg man where someone on here managed to locate the court records at Kirkaldy rapid-style, surprised this lot haven’t been followed up.
Would be good to see names and charges though, funny how nothing has been in the news…
Do the Tories hand out Bath Olivers?
Nah crackers.
Caz-M
Feel free to edit/cut/paste etc. I’m making our Tom my ‘special project’ Whoooaarrrr.
I have been assured, by people who know about such things, that if you drink ten cans of Special Brew and down half a dozen Tramadol, Danny Alexander looks like George Clooney.
Sade, ‘Smooth Operator’ –
link to youtube.com
Paul! Put down that cereal, at once, and eat your Caramel Wafer.
Busy day at the Perth Pro-independence party sign up stall today.
Great interest for the SSP, Greens and particularly the SNP. The most animated person I spoke to was an 84 year old man who was really angry at some of his peers for falling for the Vow and the Media hype in the last week. Needless to say he left with a membership form.Brand new SNP member and her young daughter turned out to get involved for the first time-brilliant! Clear verdict from speaking to YES voters is that we are building on the 1.6Million and looking to keep the Tories out of Perth in the general election.Perth also hosted the Women for Indy meeting today, apparently 1,000 in attendance.Happy days-even the weather improved as the day went on.
It also occurred to me that we should call the Labour Party Scotland as The TARTAN TORIES.
Paula Rose 2.06pm
“.no ginger nuts..”
Well Danny Alexander springs to mind.
I’ll get my coat..and sick bag
@Colin says:4 October, 2014 at 2:00 pm:
“The Libdems should have kept the wafers for themselves, they could have had them with their tea, watching afternoon tv when they have no jobs to go to after the general election.
The LibDems will need those biscuits when they get their P45’s. The LibDems are always late with everything so will be sure to be sanctioned under the rules they helped to draft.
If Danny Alexander and David Cameron were drowning and you only had time to save one of them
what sort of sandwich would you make
Caledonia, I’d make a Reuben. that’s a sandwich that should not be rushed.
@Paula Rose says:4 October, 2014 at 2:06 pm:
“What – no ginger nuts?”
Nah! Paula Rose, You only get Ginger nuts on Ginger Rodents.
It’s all well and good having a laugh at Beaker and his horrible cronies, but now and then it hits ye – these people really are in charge of our lives.
?!?!?
The very fact that these damaged characters reach positions of power is proof of how utterly and irretrievably rotten the ‘British’ political system is. We simply MUST reform our own patch, and do it asap – to that end, Labour’s Scotland Branch will finish on May 7th 2015.
We have the numbers, the arguments, and the will to make it happen. Nae excuses.
(Oh, nearly forgot, Danny has to go too!)
@Robert Peffers:
Gingers ? Gingers ? Where ?
(I heard Edinburg was the world’s capital of gingerness. I must definitely move there.)
The Herald.
Police start probe into postal vote allegations
Prosecutors have instructed the police to launch a formal investigation into allegations that pro-Union campaigners breached electoral secrecy laws during the referendum.
And who is on the Jo Swinson case. East Dunbartonshire MP, that takes in places from Clydebank to Cumbernauld. She must also go the same way as the rest.
She also made a Referendum victory speech at the Conference today.
link to heraldscotland.com
As they say in Dr Who,
Exterminate! Exterminate!
Bye Bye Jo, it’s time to go.
I think she should be sent a Bob Sinclair email.
Update to Herald is now able to be archived.
link to archive.today
Ian Brotherhood
then it hits they are in charge, not for much longer!
@caledonia
As a qualified life-saver…. I’d say to Fanny & Dave, “there’s only room for one in this Independence life raft”.
I’d then say, “this life raft is to wee, too poor & too stupid to fit more than one. In the ‘broad shoulders’ of that big ocean, you’re Better Together. You can pool (geddit?..) & share your resources.”
I’d paddle away with the parting shot, “save only one of you? – No Thanks”.
Talking to a friend here, we can see no way the SNP can take this constituency, currently held by the muppet commonly known as Paddington. Last time Labour came second and the LibDems third. The SNP were a poor-ish fourth.
No way am I voting for any unionist party. What’s a girl to do?
The Artist Taxi Driver, ‘We Need To Talk About Danny Alexander’ –
link to youtube.com
DON’T WATCH IF ‘BAD’ LANGUAGE UPSETS YOU.
We are all tasked with kicking out our local Unionist MPs.
Well mine is non other than King Rodent himself, Paisley South MP Douglas Alexander. He has a majority of 18,000 and I am looking forward to overturning everyone of his votes.
The area has a huge YES support and I am sure the little shit will be looking for alternative employment the day after the 2015 GE.
He is also needs to get the Bob Sinclair email treatment.
Caz-m, we only got 33% Yes here. Difficult territory. Hard to know how to utilise effort to best effect.
Morag are you in Mundell’s constituency too? So am I. One of my Biz for Scotland colleagues says there’s a rumour UKIP are going to stand against Mundell, which may well split the tory vote. I don’t know whether that’s true but if it is, then I will vote SNP in the hope that there’s enough other people thinking similarly. Dumfries East SNP branch has jumped from 50 members to 250+ over the past two weeks, so I’m cautiously optimistic that something might be changing.
On the other hand, I’d actually rather Mundell than Labour right now… so I am seriously considering, for the first time in my life ever… can’t actually bring myself to say it though…
Morag – Vote SNP even if you think the mountain to climb is too bag and it’s not going to be enough. If enough voters in your constituency have the same idea, then it will be.
Oh, Morag look at this
link to electoralcalculus.co.uk
hadn’t come across this site before, it’s predicting SNP in 2nd position – right I’m going to stop thinking bad thoughts and vote SNP too
If ‘Yes Alliance’ (or some variant) becomes a reality, no Labour MP in Scotland is safe.
Not one.
Oh, I’m going to vote SNP no matter what. It’s a no-brainer. Especially if UKIP are going to stand, as we absolutely need to beat them and beat them well.
Of course nobody can dictate what you do in the voting booth, but SNP members, if they ask what they should do, are advised to forget tactical voting and vote SNP. I think it might be a party policy or advisory thing.
I asked whether I should give my second STV vote for the council by-election to another party, if the councillors had any preference about which of the two real contenders they wanted to work with. I was firmly told, put your 1 against the SNP and stop. So I reckoned they’d had their chance, and did just that.
This makes me wonder whether an electoral pact is something the SNP are going to find it easy to come to terms with. On the other hand I was only talking to councillors about a council by-election. If it comes to a serious party policy issue, no doubt minds will be concentrated.
In the 2011 Holyrood election the SNP jump from 4th and 3rd places to win seats. It all depends on the flow of the electoral tide on the day.
Indigo, you know you will vote SNP
jump = jumped.
It is the cutbacks.
Indigo, that’s a really interesting link, I hadn’t seen it before. Since I don’t see any advantage in Labour getting in instead of Mundell, and really there is no torture devised that would make me vote Labour in any case, that one’s out.
I wouldn’t vote for Catrional Bhatia (David Steele’s daughter, who will be the LibDem candidate without any doubt) under any circumstances, on a personal level. Pace her mother. And anyway if the LibDems could only come third at the height of Cleggmania before the coalition, they’re toast next year.
So it’s not a hard choice. When I said, what’s a girl to do, the question was really, was I going to trail round the well-trodden Tweeddale West countryside once more with the SNP literature, or would it be better to lend a hand in a constituency where there was a better chance of a win.
That link suggests it’s back out to the usual haunts, really.
What about our man of 100 visits Jim Murphy he has a majority over the Conservatives and Lib. Dems of 10,000 at the 2010 G.E. Lets think of a strategy to oust this Careerist.
What’s the problem dears? We nearly took the vote over 50% – now stop whingeing and get on with it, we do this foot by foot – person by person, this is for our children across the whole of the British Isles and beyond and afar. We owe it to them to make the world a better place.
Good grief, that page indicates that the SNP only got 9.5% of the vote in my council ward in 2010. And I leafleted it with a broken toe, practically hopping from house to house.
Sob. Why did I bother?
@indigo
The liberals are toast in Paddington. They, whats left of them, will all be in Berwick trying to stop the Tories taking Mickey Moore’s seat. They may think that it is worth £1000 just to have a name on the ballot and 350 votes. Maybe more down there but here in Gogzilla country that’s what the LibDems can expect if they put someone up.
Yeah, I will vote SNP
Actually looking at the map of the constituency and the voting indications from the referendum, we take in Moniaive and Sanquhar – in both of those towns Yes won apparently, so it may even be more favourable than the prediction in that link.
I’m genuinely gobsmacked that site is showing our constituency as more SNP than the D&G constituency – makes me wonder how SNP mid & upper Nithsdale are, given Galloway & Upper Nithsdale used to be an SNP seat
Watched the LibDems in Peebles in 2010. They had a horsebox (OK a pony trailer) and people in jodhpurs handing out leaflets saying it was “a 2-horse race”. They came third.
The highlight of the count was watching all those cocky LibDems with their yellow “I agree with Nick” t-shirts drooping lower and lower as the night wore on.
Morag honey – were they wearing bio-degradable under thingies?
Morag
Having looked at the estimated ward breakdown for Dundee East, some of the estimates are way out. So don’t read too much into wards figures.
Nobody gives a shit about Clegg and the very few remaining yellow tories loyal to him.
Clegg is toxic to the public and has reduced his party to a pitiful joke. Lib dems who now poodle along with attacking Iraq while letting the tories do whatever the fuck they want to the poor, the disabled and most vulnerable. Just as long as Clegg and some of his MPs could have a nice cushy ministerial job and feel important for a few years.
The lib dems will be annihilated in 2015 and nobody will mourn the loss.
They deserve everything that’s coming to them.
Theu do have a health warning with the ward breakdowns. Mind you, the SNP candidate only got 10.8% overall, so I suppose 9.5% in the ward where the LibDem candidate was a councillor wasn’t so bad.
Talking of biccies – always liked a Hob-Nob but not any more, still partial to a garibaldi but does an Eccles cake count as a biscuit?
Anyone but Labour should be the motto IMO.
The motto must be – Live for the future, not the past.
@Paula
When exposed to air if it goes soft its a biscuit, if it goes hard its a … wait for it … cake
Indigo
Amazing production – I would dearly love for SNP to gain Edinburgh North and Leith even if it is by a hair’s breadth! It would be quite a turn around after 2010.
Curious that the gains on the prediction seem to be outwith Glasgow where I am expecting a much bigger Yes vote than Edinburgh. It would be interesting to know if the referendum data has been factored in or if it is just going by the recent polls.
Morag – looks like Midlothian could do with a hand… having said that I have no idea who will stand there. Does anyone know when the SNP will announce candidates?
Yougov poll for Sunday Times.
CON – 36% (+1)
LAB – 34% (=)
UKIP – 13% (-1)
LDEM – 7% (+1)
Cameron has 41 point lead over Miliband on issue of leadership.
If UKIP go back to Tories.. could be a landslide.
Looking like Labour NO voters will get the Tory government they deserve.
If prospect of Labour government looks hopeless, may be easier to vote SNP to protect Scotland.
@Paula Rose
Dundee Cake the just desert that can’t be swallowed by the Hob Nobs and Jammie Dodgers. They aught to be made to eat it every day for the rest of their political careers which won’t be for long I hope.
Wouldn’t like to see the poor souls suffer for too long
@ handclapping – giggle
If the British state had just allowed us to go about our indy-ref without sticking their tentacles all over every aspect of it, we would’ve voted Yes and they’d have been forced to let us go…ho-hum.
As it is, they’ve made us put the gimp suit back on again, and we don’t like it one toty wee bit – if we have a unified Yes Alliance? we get a variety of pro-Indy talents right inside the belly of the beast. (e.g. Tommy is not an SSP member, but he would be a formidable opponent for any unionist WM candidate – who would bet against him?)
Then? we have a choice on what to do with whatever right-wing alliance has overall WM control – we hold their feet to the fire, or we start feeding their stretched scrotum into the mangle. (Not much of a choice for them right enough…)
WM is about to find out, the hard way, that gimps are only useful so long as they’re willing to play their part.
Paula Rose says: 4 October, 2014 at 5:00 pm:
“Tunnocks Tea Cakes – Jammy Dodgers.”
Isn’t it the LibDems that are the jammy dodgers?
They are dead jammy and have been dodging promises for years.
Robert honey – I thought that was my point xx
Vow? Pledge? Devo-whatever? Hot-Air?
An interesting chat from Referendum TV to help explain…a little.
link to referendumtv.net
@Tam Jardine
I think the SNP candidate announcement may be some time away yet, it seemed at quite an early stage at my local meeting last week – but – importantly, a very strong candidate looking likely to step forward. Whether it’s a Yes alliance or whether people step forward towards the SNP, I think we’ll see an interesting field of candidates for May
SquareHaggis says: 4 October, 2014 at 5:16 pm:
“Rem3mber the egg-thrower in Kirkaldy and the speed at which his case was brought to court and dealt with? Anyone heard anything as to the assaults Glasgow Sq on the 19th?
Yes see : –
link to archive.today
NB Anyone in Ayrshire –
Big Yes gathering in Ayr Town Hall, Monday eve – note the early start, 7 p.m.
It was originally slated to be held in a pub, but the expected numbers are too big. Any/all pro-indy groups should ensure they have people there.
At my local SNP meeting last week, members were still being urged to come forward for candidate training and selection, if they wanted to be considered. So it’s early indeed.
New poll in @newsundayherald shows Scots want full devo-max. Smith Commission must deliver or Westminster will face backlash & #indyref2
What do we want?
Marcia, with the SH front-page!
When do we want it?
Now!
SH haven’t tweeted it yet.
Ian: Big Yes gathering in Ayr Town Hall, Monday eve – note the early start, 7 p.m.
Great news, Ian!
‘The dream shall not die.’
Is it a ticket only meeting?
@ Ian Brotherhood, 10:46pm
NB Anyone in Ayrshire –
Big Yes gathering in Ayr Town Hall, Monday eve – note the early start, 7 p.m.
Food bank collection at this meeting.
Advice from organiser below:
Items required are:
long life milk (litres and half litres) juice
puddings, ie, tinned rice and custard, stuff to make main meals, ie, tins of meat, chicken, pies, etc.
All standard size and all non-perishable.
Plus toiletries, again, small or standard size – no big sizes.
A wee bar of chocolate wouldn’t go amiss either.
Looks like it is going to be a busy meeting!
@ Grouse Beater, 11:00pm
Is it a ticket only meeting?
No tickets as far as I am aware; for all the local Yes groups/activists. Just need to be committed to the cause 🙂
O/T
Anti-war march in London today, nothing reported on BBC or ITV, picked it up on RT
Sunday Herald front page:
link to twitter.com
Proud Cybernat @ 4 October, 2014 at 5:53 pm
Unless I’m mistaken there is a lot of Westminster policies that aren’t only rUk only like Welfare? If at the next election there is a SNP majority but a Tory rUk majority but requires SNP support to form a coalition government should a SNP majority participate in a coalition government that gives the best deal for the Scottish people? In this scenario, the majority in Scotland voted for the SNP but the majority in the rUK voted for Tory and considering the SNP will note vote on issues that doesn’t affect Scotland then they are not supporting the Tories, how can the hypothetical SNP majority be in bed with the Tories?
Unless we have a united YES Alliance, our vote will be split and the unionists will get back in droves.
The point of a Yes Alliance majority is not about holding the balance of power but making it impossible for the Westminster unionists to govern Scotland.
The SNP can then stand for the 2016 Scottish election promising another referendum on independence.
In fact the SNP must always have a referendum on independence on its manifesto until we get independence.
Husker
No. For a million and 1 reasons. Look above you at Marcia’s SH front page. I would quit my membership and so would 76,000 others.
It’s a non-starter.
@Betty Boop –
Thanks for highlighting the Foodbank appeal connected with the Monday evening meeting, I’d forgotten all about that, despite Jim e-mailing me…doh!
@Grouse Beater –
Is there any chance you’ll make the Monday Ayr meeting?
UK and US really are good at foreign policy,not.
From the Sunday Herald Twitter:
‘The Sunday Herald editorial: the Scottish people want more powers and we are the paper to fight for you. It is no longer business as usual.’
Gloves aff! 😉
Ian Brotherhood
Do have a link or facebook whatever it is for that Ayr meeeting, I’ll pass it on to my local Ayrshire group. They were looking to make contact, sounds like a good idea. They’re probably on top of it as a poster here is a member I think, but why take chances?
@Robert Peffers
I raised a complaint over the George Square events and the reporting of them on the BBC. I have raised lots of complaints against the BBC but I thought it important that I share this one widely as it displays the absolute contempt that the BBC has for a large proportion of its Scottish viewers.
Here is their response…
“We are determined to be impartial and fair in our coverage and to bring a range of views to our audiences. The referendum was a long campaign and there have been many opportunities across all of our platforms for coverage of the issues. Please be assured that bias plays no part in our reporting. We place the highest value on accuracy and impartiality within our own journalism and rigorous editorial standards are applied across all of our output. We believe our coverage was fair to both sides to the referendum argument, and balanced in line with our special referendum guidelines. We reported this story without fear or favour.”
This is the last complaint I will put into the BBC. I have cancelled my licence fee and will never watch them again – ever.
Ian: Is there any chance you’ll make the Monday Ayr meeting?
I’m champing at the bit to participate in some way, bouyed to learn our troops are regrouping for a second front, but I doubt I can make this Monday. I’m nursing a chest cold.
I’ll try on the day – two hour drive from Edinburgh, I think.
Grizzle Mcpuss, Yes Robin McAlpine is definitely someone who has his finger on the pulse so to speak, this was posted on an earlier thread a couple of days ago…god knows by who, but much appreciated. Contrary to Schrodingers cat’s assertion that Robin isn’t aware that the only way we can achieve many of common weal’s objective is through the ballot box, (in the article he may not have indicated this simply because his and ‘allofusfirsts’ vision encompasses things we can do with and without Independence, and it may well have been written before the vote), he most assuredly knows we have to rout Labour from this country and it’s full steam ahead from this vid of him on the 29th September.
This is a route I definitely want to be involved in, god knows how, but the setting up of ‘Common’ spaces, starting with Glasgow is a start; where people can physically gather to strategise, educate, lobby, with the organisation and facillitation of the commom weal to aid and assist and back us up whatever ideas and inspiration people may bring to accomplish the sweeping changes we want to see. Where people can really participate to bring about genuine democracy.
Things are moving fast and it’s hard to keep up to date with all the plans and endeavours that everyone is engaged in to make this happen. But Robin McApline is at the forefront of this, especially with his reach into Holyrood and innate sense of bringing the different skills and talents of people together. He is most definitely someone who is going to play an even bigger part of reshaping the dynamics of politics in our country for many years to come.
link to youtube.com
@ TJenny – Hi honey xxx
Indigo: Moniaive is just outside the Mundell constituency, it’s Russell Brown over this end.
The Dumfries East branch of SNP has now gone from 48 members to 312, so a sixfold increase, twice the national average. A new branch is being set up for mid and upper Nithsdale in response.
Both Thornhill and Penpont were 40% yes according to the counting agent so lots to build on.
But apparently Langholm was only 17% yes and Gretna not far behind so a lot of work to be done over there. UKIP splitting the Tory vote sounds like good news.
Thanks Marcia, always appreciate the SH cover on a Saturday night 🙂
A Tory landslide is coming down the tracks. Some people still don’t get it.
Labour NO voters will start panicking when they realise that another five years of hell awaits them, and that it is too late now. Could have been different. The only way to redeem themselves may be to vote SNP in 2015.
@cynicalHighlander says: October, 2014 at 7:30 pm:
“Fracking US and UK are not the same as our shale is far closer to the surface than the US which is why fracking should not even be considered here.”
Another, and even greater, reason for not fracking in Scotland is the same one as saw the then new planned super-pit meant to be supported by the new town of Glenrothes. The Scottish coal seams run every which way but straight.
The super-pit was to use gigantic imported USA coal cutters that ran across a wide seam. It just couldn’t be done. Not only that but the broken seams allow water ingress across levels. This was the official cause of the abandonment of the super-pit – flooding. It is a disaster just waiting to happen.
Thanks ClanDonald, interesting to know that
I noticed out box sampling had Tweedsmuir at 45% Yes and Traquair at 50% Yes. Kind of bucks the trend for these small rural villages. (Linton was 32% despite my best efforts.)
I wish we knew why these little pockets do that. Although maybe we couldn’t replicate the effect even if we knew.
Our box sampling, even.
@yesindyref2 –
I don’t ‘do’ Facebook, but the info is pretty bare so far as I know – Betty Boop added the important reminder that there’s a foodbank drive involved.
All I know is Ayr Town Hall, 7 pm, Monday. I haven’t seen any speakers listed.
Some of us SSP folk will be there, flogging our new edition of the Voice, and we’re hoping that some of the estimated 160 new Ayrshire members will attend. Aside from that, me no know much…
I’m looking forward to maybe seeing some of the campaigners who were at the Wallace Tower in the last couple of weeks pre-18th. Last time a lot of us met was outside the Citadel, saying tearful goodnights after the BT mob had cleared the final hurdle. Hard to believe that was just a fortnight ago.
@K1
Yes, this was what I was alluding to earlier. The Common Weal is looking like it has listened (to that noise in the ether as well as the street) and has come up with some sensible solutions, one as you say via the ‘Common’ approach.
I couldn’t find what I was after in the various YES camps, but the ‘what, where and who’ of ‘allofusfirst’ has certainly had me sitting here nodding.
Lib Dems are on a pathetic 2% for the Rochester & Strood by-election. That’s a drop of 14% to basically a joke and possible deposit losing level of support. They are being wiped out.
The yellow tories are going to pay dearly for their complete lack of principles and revolting behaviour.
Good. 🙂
Jenny: The Sunday Herald editorial: the Scottish people want more powers and we are the paper to fight for you. It is no longer business as usual.’ – Gloves aff!
Brilliant.
@Grouse Beater –
I’d hate to be the one to dissuade you from attending, but if you’re poorly, and so far away?
Hmmm…
Perhaps watching it via Livestream would be more sensible? I don’t know mister…it’s a tough shout. (And even then, I’m not sure there will be any Livestream…)
One thing’s for sure – all of these events (wherever they’re happening) have to get maximum turnout possible, and, perhaps more importantly, we have to ram those turnout figures down the necks of every media outlet, be they local, national or international.
I see that James Kelly of Scot Goes Pop is only 2% off his fundraising target;
link to indiegogo.com
This may or may not stick in the thraw.
How does it improve the Scottish economy to boycott Scottish products?
As one poster mentioned earlier, quite a few of the old guard in some of the longer established firms have/had a strong emotional attachment to the union. We can’t change that, and there is probably little reward in trying.
Obvious examples would include Mackies and Baxters. In both cases the old guys are gone. Not sure about the younger generation’s point of view.
The cases of those who funded BT as a business – well one just has to consider whether their product provides as much utility as it once did. As for the likes of the moaning underwear empire, well…
B&Q/Screwfix, Asda, M&S etc can GTF.
I admit to caving in on Baxter’s soup.
It has to be a priority to reach a common goodwill consensus on how we replicate the unitary form that the YES campaign achieved. If we are fragmented the black-artists will drive a coach and horses right through us.
Perhaps, WoS could as a start, propose a basic timetable, critical plan, outlining each strategic stage point till the 2015 vote?
We need to get some ‘thought-spaghetti’ stuck on the project wall. No more waiting for events to happen. We need to set the pace and determine our own course, but it has to be, must be, coordinated.
Strangely, Ashcroft doesn’t have morgage rate on its list of most important issues, but my very small feedback, personal and overhearing YES campaigners, is that it was maybe the deciding factor for a good few.
I think BT managed to get away with linking it to Scotland’s possible higher borrowing rate, whereas it’s mostly 100% linked to the central bank lending rate – 0.5% at the BoE. Meaning that even sterlingisation would have made no difference in itself. Our own currency would have meant our own central bank and our own lending rate, but there’s no reason to think it would be different from the rUK rate.
There is supposed to be some sort of loading for lending to a “foreigner”, but this was never explored properly, and despite searching for a few hours in August or so, I could find nothing really of interest.
It could be worth getting hold of some sort of definitive answer to this, and bringing it up when out and about.
Paula Rose – Hi and xxxxs right back atcha. 😉
Are you or anyone else on here intending going to the Hope Over Fear Rally , 13.00 – 17.00, next Sunday, 12th Oct, in Freedom (George) Square, Glasgow? Think I’ll try to make it as I need to plug back into the WOS mainframe of positivity, and hug a few Wingers if you’ll be there.
Morag
Don’t mention sampling you’ll end up sharing a cell with Ruthie
Ian: One thing’s for sure – all of these events (wherever they’re happening) have to get maximum turnout possible
I agree.
The motivation for such a lengthy journey over the country route would be if I was one of the speakers, but am happy to be part of the ‘braying’ crowd anywhere in Midlothian and Glasgow… Let me know speakers when you have names – Sheridan?
On Friday it is the 40th Anniversary of the 10th October 1974 UK General Election. BBC Parliament will be reshowing their Election Night programme which was hosted by the late Alistair Burnett from 9 am. I should see myself 40 years younger when they show the declaration of Dundee East if I don’t blink for the fleeting shot of the crowd.
@Ian Brotherhood says: 4 October, 2014 at 9:01 pm:
” … then it hits ye – these people really are in charge of our lives.”
The reason I’ve been chasing comments with my replies is because I’m catching up with some video editing work I promised to do. It needed some research to find suitable clips. I was following a female film-maker’s work for clips and she had made a series of YouTube videos on the theme of the cause of increased violence throughout the World, blaming it upon the lack of parental contact including tactile stuff like cuddles and such like.
So think about this – The Westminster parties are full of people brought up by nannies, sent to boarding prep schools, on to English boarding public schools and then to Cambridge or other Universities. The lady quotes a professor who has run research projects that show the tactile contact of parents leads to non-aggression in people and lack of same to aggressiveness. Not only that but one factor is directly opposite to the other. As one rises the other drops.
Sounds about right to me.
Iain Grey’s subway lament
the lib dems face a wipeout but sadly they will hang on in the Northern isles with that buffoon Carmichael – difficult to see him booted out unless the Yes side come up with a really great candidate.
John Thurso and Charlie Kennedy may also be difficult to bomb out – again need really good local candidates to remove them.
Danny Tory boy Alexander is toast – I wonder if he will stand or will just retire to a plum job in the city of London?
Rest of lib dem Scots and UK MPs? – even more toast.
Anyone got any jam?
Morag
‘Despite my best efforts’
I’m not having that, nobody could have tried harder, be proud of your achievements which put a lot of us to shame.
And – it goes without saying – thanks.
Bob Sinclair
Hear Hear.
T-Jenny
I’ll be there for sure, we’ll need the Wings Banner so, Ronnie, are you there?
One less day, sampling during the main count, when the papers are verified face-up, is totally legal. We’re all breathing down the tellers’ necks with our clipboards.
Here is their response…
“We are determined to be impartial and fair in our coverage and to bring a range of views to our audiences. The referendum was a long campaign and there have been many opportunities across all of our platforms for coverage of the issues. Please be assured that bias plays no part in our reporting. We place the highest value on accuracy and impartiality within our own journalism and rigorous editorial standards are applied across all of our output. We believe our coverage was fair to both sides to the referendum argument, and balanced in line with our special referendum guidelines. We reported this story without fear or favour.”
What a load of p*sh. Not unlike replies I got during the campaign. The Biased Bigoted Corrupt can truly do no wrong. (They still don’t think Nick Robinson’s a liar, despite all the evidence – their own! – to the contrary.)
We should get down on our knees and be profoundly grateful for such a fine institution. We are not worthy.
Kevin McKenna’s article in Sundays observer.
link to archive.today
Tam Jardine says @ 4 October, 2014 at 11:19 pm
A condition of a SNP or any other centre-left Scottish party on coalition with a a Tory government is that these policies are not introduced to Scotland or any other part of the UK?
Lets get one thing straight, I am part of the 45, like yourself. We are not in the position to impose but in the position to defend. At the moment we can’t block the Tory sword but at least we can blunt it. With what we got, isn’t that the best option at the present time?
Liz
great article.
“And no longer can we blame the “fucking Tories”.
Sums it all up very nicely.
Cheers Marcia RE: James Kelly’s target. I gave him a fiver, I’m sure he’ll get his target.
A top lad and great anaylsis.
DEVO MAX FOR 2015!
I’m back on the horse.
Let’s keep going.
Let’s give that Parli of oors some real powers.
We get Devo.
We will be free by 3-4 years from them!
Dr JM Mackintosh
Probably the only one to stand against Carmichael would be an Independent, I think their council is made up of Independents.
Issue could be if Carmichael fails to delivers on shore and coastal Crown Estate – he promised to get them 80% of revenue / control.
Dr JM Mackintosh
Congratulations on cancelling your TV License. I cancelled mine by telephone on Monday.
@morag
There was a lot of weird stuff going on down in the detail. It wasn’t just your villages – in Livingston on canvass we were finding tiny wee cul-de-sacs of 15 houses all voting similarly, but in contrast to the next one down…
The lesson I draw is that we need to identify not just the Yes voters, but the Yes voters with the power to make a difference to their immediate neighbours
Building up that kind of influence is a medium-term job. We’ll get down to it.
@Dr JM Mackintosh – that’s the argument I used with my Lab supporting friend – you vote No, never again complain about WM – did it work, don’t know.
Pollsters in England forget to take into account that the Scottish Labour vote is going to fall dramatically.
This will give the Blue Tories an even bigger lead in the 2015 GE.
So after the historic NO vote win in the Referendum, we get the Tories for five more years AND no new powers.
What’s not to like?
We need to get as many Indy MPs down to Westminster as we possibly can.
@Alan of Neilston says: 4 October, 2014 at 9:47 pm:
“What about our man of 100 visits Jim Murphy he has a majority over the Conservatives and Lib. Dems of 10,000 at the 2010 G.E. Lets think of a strategy to oust this Careerist.”
I think some may be missing something here. You are looking at just the SNP & the party in power with a big majority fighting it out. However, it’s not going to be like that.(we hope).
At the moment all Unionist parties are losing members and all indy parties gaining them. So the whole demographic of every constituency is changed.
It will not be the usual two main party fight with the others looking for the best also-ran place and little change in their shares of the vote. For example a Labour/SNP slug out with the Libdems/ Tory /a.n.others trailing well out of contention. If it is an SNP/Labour slug out we can hope to gain voters from all other parties and, with the other indy parties staying out of it, we get their votes too. If the Greens, for example, are the agreed indy party then they get voters from SNP, SSP Labour for Indy and defectors from LibDem, Tory and Labour who, (besides the Labour for Indy), have already come over to the SNP.
Put another way – if all unionist parties lose votes and no other indy party stands then that indy party picks up all previous indy party votes plus the defectors from all Unionist parties. However, if it had been a straight Labour Tory fight before then there could be the complication of a tactical Unionist vote. But I ask you, can you see traditional Labour voters voting Tory and vise versa in a GE or Holyrood election?
Grizzle, in case you haven’t seen the update for commom weal, further down the page under the heading ‘Common Weal is Born’ you can see 14 of the 16 people who are now board members on Commom Weal Ltd. Impressive list, two more unamed as yet to be added. This ‘latest’ update outlines the company’s t&c’s and purpose;
“So what we’re trying to do is create infrastructure that makes keeping going as easy as possible. If there are places to meet, where accidental coming-together can be encouraged (and also somewhere attractive and pleasant to draw new people in), organising becomes easier. If we can create a social media platform which makes creating networks and campaigns and sharing information and ideas easier then keeping going becomes so much easier.
This is about trying to provide infrastructure for others to use to make keeping going as easy as possible. We don’t want to control this – in fact, we couldn’t anyway. We are serious about providing infrastructure which supports others.
But where we do want to lead is in ideas. Really high-quality policy-making is essential and it requires serious work and research. The Common Weal Policy Unit will (I think) be crucial to setting the agenda and moving things forward. And putting some effort into curating and bringing together information for others is also important.”
link to allofusfirst.org
@Robert Peffers (12.13) –
Yep.
FWIW, I reckon you’re bang on it.
It’s all to do with ‘duty’.
Parents jettison their own weans, and justify it on the basis that they’re serving the ‘greater good’ which is, of course, the protection of their own privileged class.
They saw what happened in France, and they don’t want it happening here. And they’ll do anything – any-fucking-thing – to ensure their own safety.
If they’re prepared to abandon their own weans, should we wonder at what else they’re capable of?
Their hereditary ‘duty’ is to preserve the status of their fellows, whose whole existence depends on, and is defined by, having a permanent underclass over whom they can rule.
@Morag says: 4 October, 2014 at 9:49 pm:
“Good grief, that page indicates that the SNP only got 9.5% of the vote in my council ward in 2010. And I leafleted it with a broken toe, practically hopping from house to house. Sob. Why did I bother?
You bothered, young lady, for the very same reason I was working for the SNP in every election since 1946. Think what it felt like way back then? Everything from lost deposits to a tiny handful of votes.
In the Borders, where generally the towns voted Yes, but the countryside swung it over to NO, it will be interesting (possibly a first) come the UK GE, and it is potentially winnable for the SNP or Yes Alliance or whatever, as current Tory MSP John Lamont (£15,000 expenses, for “office supplies”) announced a year or two ago he’d be standing against Michael Moore, for the Westminster seat, giving the unionist drones, sorry, voters a bit of head-scratching to do when they come to vote, over which pillock to pick, voting as often by candidates name, the more recognisable the better, than by party. The Labour vote isn’t much but could come over the the Indy side, it if hasn’t already. A problem in those parts is determining which party allegiance if any the local councillors have as many have left the unionist parties publically for whimsical reasons, but really to save their own hides from party disaffection by standing as “Independent” candidates. The unionist parties there are in disarray and look set to further unravel.
yes indyref2
I would love to see to the Yes campaign in the Northern isles use full size cardboard cutouts of Carmichael from Greg Moodie to show what a useless buffoon he has been.
I would put them outside every polling station to show what a waste of their liberal vote has been for many generations.
Ian Brotherhood
Thanks for that, my contact sent out the details of the Ayr 7pm meeting to 300 YES supporters.
@yesindyref2 –
(:))
Nice one.
@ yesindyref2 and Ian
Looks like I’d better aim to get there early, otherwise I won’t get in! Hope to see at least one of you there.
Junk journalists can be bribed with junk food and junk promises of moar powars.
crazycat / Ian
I doubt I’ll be there, meetings aren’t really my thing. But I think it’s vital the YES movement keeps its momentum, and these 3 to 4 weeks after the Referendum are vital, to get people together, take strength from each other, but also to stop YES shops closing and groups drifting away – and even to get back to the wider YES who don’t do shops or groups but do their own thing – like me!
Whoever organised that Ayr Town Hall meeting deserves a medal 🙂
On the subject of keeping momentum going, Scotsman has one article by Sturgeon published in err, some left magazine, and another about her and devo. Her message is that Devo leads to Independence, I agree.
She also says we have the upper hand with the Smith Commission starting, I also agree with that.
Don’t know yet if the Sunday Herald will carry her article, probably.
Completely O/T, but I found this piece by Vernon Bogdanor – how can I put it? – interesting. you might want to take the blood pressure meds before clicking on the links. link to nytimes.com
Still trying to work out why the Smith Commission needs until end of October to report. What is there to discuss?
“All powers except foreign policy and defence to be devolved to the Scottish Parliament”.
That’s what we were promised, that’s what we’re expecting. If it’s any longer than those 14 words, then it’s a pig in a poke.
Husker 12.29am
If the SNP were to prop up a conservative government, voting on English laws to allow them to pass in exchange for the Conservatives agreeing not to impose laws on Scotland- I don’t see that working.
Is that what you mean? Firstly, agreements in parliament are not binding and there would be nothing to prevent imposition of policy (including closing the doors of Holyrood for example) if westminster voted to do so, agreement or not.
Secondly the English and Welsh and Northern Irish would revolt at anything, any change imposed on them by SNP MPs in agreement that Scotland would be protected.
Thirdly, the ethos of the party to my knowledge is moving Scotland forward and building a better future rather than being a kind of pragmatic survivalist council.
I see what you are saying but cannot see how it would or could work. But then it is 5 am and I have not been able to sleep so forgive me if I misunderstand you!
I am sure if the Tories don’t get a majority, 1st on the coalition list is UKIP then Lib Dem anyway so little chance of it coming to pass.
Sending 30 or more MPS to Westminster will undoubtedly make it harder to impose policy on Scotland but the real benefit in my view is in further destabilising the UK. We are told the ‘settled will of the people’ has spoken for staying in UK- that can hardly be argued if a majority of Scottish MPS support independence!
Anyway – interesting times lie ahead. Let’s hope that the SNP can protect and defend the people
G’morning
Marker Post. How brilliantly put. “ALL POWERS EXCEPT FOREIGN POLICY AND DEFENCE TO BE DEVOLVED TO THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT”. There is no need for anything else, lets put those 14 words everywhere. This was the “vow”,why, as you say, the need for discussion or petitions.
Anything less means the referendum result is null and void.
OK, about that biscuit scenario, here goes:
Ukip: Jammy (Tax) Dodgers.
Tories: (British) Empire Biscuits.
Liberals: (Cowardly) Custard Creams.
Labour: Broken (Promises) Biscuits.
SNP: Shortbread (Scottish through and through).
SSP: Garibaldi’s (Revolutionary).
Greens: Fair Trade Digestives.
Yes Campaign: Freedom Food Biscuits.
No Campaign: Jaffa Cakes (Bitter Orange in the middle).
Stephen.
Sir Ian Wood. Millionaire Shortbread.
Just back from 2 weeks in China so missed all the post referendum stuff.
After catching up on all the reading it does appear to me that the general election needs to be fought on the grounds of Devo Max, holding Westminster to account on their “promise”. We should all combine our forces as one umbrella party to continue this fight at Westminster and to give the unionists a message that we will not be lied to.
We Want What’s Promised.
@bugsbunny:
What about those who are on a diet?
Those who have diabetes?
Those who are allergic to gluten?
Those who like chocolate over butter?
And madeleines? Who deserves madeleines?
And buns? Buns for bunnies?
The Lib/Dem Leadership have f**ked their own Party up, now they want to turn their attention to SNP policy.
Alistair Carmicheal:-
“For the SNP leadership – for Nicola Sturgeon – this is of course a big test. It is disappointing that she has declined to rule out pushing for a second referendum in less than three years from now.”
“We settled the independence question in a way that was legal, fair and decisive – and we won,”
Danny Alexander:-
“We must use this opportunity not just decentralise power in the rest of the UK, but to reverse the flood tide of centralisation that the SNP have imposed on Scotland over the last seven years.
link to bbc.co.uk
Both Carmicheal and Alexander speak today at their Conference, should be interesting to see how they both plan to shape future Scottish Government policy.
Robert Peffers, on cuddles , though I agree with you in part Robert I also believe that cuddles and hugs are supposed to be personal and not the faux affection of today .
I hate the assumption on being introduced to someone that they are allowed to hug and peck me – shake my hand by all means but it has to be an Ian Brotherhood handshake ,none of the dead fish stuff!
So there is a lot of unnecessary ,meaningless hugging and kissing which reflects the asinine celebrity culture in which we live.
I find myself at odds with a society which is quite happy to accept the bombing , droning , shooting and killing hundreds of thousands of folk of other nations ,which could not possibly attack us except by acts our government calls ” terrorism”, but when deaths are personalised by IS throw up their hands in horror and back the government in its droning , bombing and shooting of hundreds of thousands more.
In no way do I condone either but the hypocrisy is quite unbearable.
Once upon a time – we Scots could definitively say – ‘NOT IN MY NAME’,
How shamed we now are as a puppet bolt-on to a crass UK war machine, run by idiots for idiots.
Absolutely shameful.
I know a lot of people play with figures on the calculus. Just put some figures in, including the latest Panelbase poll.
link to electoralcalculus.co.uk
Using latest Westminster Panelbase poll levels:
SNP 34%, Lab 32%, Con 18%, Lib 5%
gives
SNP 25, Lab 29, Con 3, Lib 2
Labour still the biggest party in Scotland. Liberals possibly will have more MPs that SNP in Westminster. SNP holding balance of power unlikely.
Using a fictional ‘improved’ set of poll levels:
SNP 36%, Lab 30%, Con 16%, Lib 5%
gives
SNP 30, Lab 26, Con 2, Lib 1
That represents the point where SNP take the majority of Scottish WM seats. No London party can then claim to have a mandate to rule Scotland.
Using Holyrood Panelbase poll levels for Westminster:
SNP 42%, Lab 27%, Con 15%, Lib 5%
gives
SNP 44, Lab 13, Con 1, Lib 1
This sort of result could prevent Labour forming a UK government and give SNP the balance of power. If people are willing to vote that way for Edinburgh, they can be pursuaded to do the same for London.
Quite clearly you can see just how big an impact we could make on the UK political scene if we can get the SNP vote up for WM 2015.
@bugsbunny…Those Jammy Dodgers are going to split the Empire Biscuits, whilst the Cowardly Custard Creams get thier just desserts.
Meanwhile the Shortbread army is forming coalitions with Garibaldi and The Fare Trade Digestives to outflank the Broken Biscuits. All under the overaching alliance of the Freedom Food Biscuits who are going to utterly crush the Jaffa Cakes once and for all.
‘Where has it all gone?’ – Grouse Beater
grousebeater-wordpress
Galamcennalath:
Both Carmicheal and Alexander speak today at their Conference, should be depressing to see how they both plan to shape future Scottish Government policy.
I substituted ‘depressing’ for ‘interesting’ to give your remark greater emphasis. The reprisals begin…
@caz-m
LibDems are the biggest hypocrites the world has ever known worse than Labour.
PRJ
“We should all combine our forces as one umbrella party to continue this fight at Westminster and to give the unionists a message that we will not be lied to.”
I totally agree and that is why we need this new logo out as soon as possible.
“YES ALLIANCE”
The more you see this logo, the more it fits into what we are all about.
We are now a rainbow coalition, from all parts with one common goal, Scottish Independence.
I hope some graphics people can put together a few trial examples out there so we can get a look at it.
YES Scotland could push this for us. Hopefully something can be put together for the “Hope Over Fear” rally next week in George Sq. Glasgow.
I was in George Sq after the Referendum defeat and witnessed the Saltire being burned by my fellow Scots.
What a contrast the rally next week will be.
PRJ
“We Want What’s Promised.”
But that’s the point. We weren’t actually promised anything. There were vague allusions to vague powers made by various vague figures none of whom had any power to deliver us any powers.
That depends entirely on the House of Commons supporting such.
There was certainly no promise of all powers except foreign policy and defence to be devolved to the Scottish Parliament.
Anybody on here who believes there were any promises actually made needs to sharpen up a bit.
Here’s what’s actually on offer. A permission to tax ourselves more and a permission to rearrange the way we spend the pocket money we already get.
That’s it.
That should be fairly easy to expose.
And the unionist plan? By the time the Smith Commission comes up a with a draft set of proposals – three years? – and it goes as a draft bill with three readings in the House of lords – five years? six years? – any idea of Scottish independence will have died.
Just as a matter of interest the “Vow” is almost exclusively the property of the Daily Record and nobody else is promoting it.
Andrew Marr Show.
Ruth Wishart very subtle keeping the Yes Pen in her hand doing the paper review, well done Ruth I hope that many others getting interviewed do the same & keep the Yes name to the forefront.
galamcennalath
Thanks for the interesting calculus stats.
Do you think we will see conservative voters voting SNP in those constituencies where the Conservatives have no chance? Voting SNP and ending up with the tories in charge down south I can live with. Is the same true for tory voters desperate to win?
There are regrettably hundreds of thousands of them up here. Of course the SNP won’t court this vote by advertising ‘vote SNP to keep labour out’
link to newvision.co.ug
I will not buy nor eat Tunnocks again.
Dave McEwan Hill
“Anybody on here who believes there were any promises actually made needs to sharpen up a bit.”
But Gordon Brown promised substantial new powers.
Alistair Darling promised a fast track route to more powers.
And Jackie Bird, yes Jackie Bird of BBC Scotland fame, even said we were going to get Devo-Max.
Dave, are you trying to tell us that all three of these pillars of the Scottish Establishment were lying so they could convince people to vote NO?
They wouldn’t have done that, would they?
The trick now is to tell those people who voted NO, that they were conned, they were lied to and to make Brown, Darling and Co look like the snakes that we know they are.
Grant
I won’t buy them but the boycott never said anything about eating them if they are available.
@ galamcennalath
Obviously past opinion polls reflect the perception that the SNP is more of a Holyrood Party than a Westminster Party. Voters need to be convinced that there is a point in voting SNP in the GE 2015. This is where the YES Alliance need to carry on canvassing.
“Keep Cool and Carry On Canvassing”
Grouse beater
We should draw straws and the loser has to watch the Lib/Dem Conference on behalf of Wings, then report back to us on any relevant points that were made.
Ronnie Anderson
I watched the Ruth Wishart interview and never noticed the YES pen, well spotted there.
galamcennalath
Regarding Election Calculus, I wonder if UKIP might take a significant % of the vote from Lab and/or Con; it’s a bit of an unknown.
Have you all read the “Vow”
Can anybody point me to a promise of anything in it?
Just watched Andrew Marr on BBC interviewing Clegg. Marr asked , how English are going to get HOMERULE in the same way as Scots! Seriously, Marr either is so naive that he came up the ‘Clyde on a bike’ or he is peddling WM & the BBC/MSM ‘Homerule’ myth, as a sop to the inattentive masses. My money is on the latter. BBC licence cancelled.
@CazM –
Okay man, I volunteer, and I’m ready…
link to worldsstrongestlibrarian.com
Brilliant interview by Nicola Sturgeon regarding Scottish Independence.
“The word ‘devolution’ is no longer adequate, for that describes a process of handing down carefully circumscribed powers from on high to a relatively passive people.”
link to eveningtelegraph.co.uk
@bugsbunny 6.39am
On the “biscuit” theme
Better Together- fudge
Willie Rennie- fairy cakes
David Cameron- Eton Mess
Jackie Baillie- Flumps
Johann Lamont- Soor Plooms
Ian Wood- Rich Tea
Lib Dems- Toast
Ok. I’m getting ma coat…
@Grouse Beater
Wisnae me 🙂
@Tam Jardine
Tories, interesting points. I now dislike Labour more than the Tories, they are both Scotland’s enemies, but Labour hold the moral gutter.
The Tories are, for the most part, an alien entity interfering in Scotland. Labour are the enemy in our midst which needs rooting out.
The residual 15-20% of Scottish Tories are THE BritNats. It’s hard to see them voting for anything which might ultimately lead to Independence.
Would they short term vote tactically against Labour? Possibly.
@Capella
I tend to agree. The whole Yes machinery needs to switch to conventional politics for the next couple of years.
I would say, enough time to show there is no Better Together and for Unionists to fail convincingly on The Vow/Promise.
A strong SNP presence in WM, and Indy parties in majority in Holyrood, is the springboard for IndyRef II.
@farrochie
UKIP. We mustn’t forget about them! If the BBC keep pushing them, they will get some Scottish votes. In first past the post, taking some Lab & Con votes won’t do our cause any harm!
@ caz-m Ah did try yesterday to watch l/Dem con,that woman Doctor talking about Ladies of the Night,& the mispronunciation of her mooth put me off,( an ah should talk about mispronunciation) ah hope ah spelt that right.
Alliance party
Never happen, most groups supporting yes we’re not established political parties and don’t stand candidates in any election, eg cnd, they focus on one specific issue and lobby and support the party who represents their closest ideal.
The only political party’s in the yes vote were the snp,greens and ssp
Since they very rarely if ever stand candidates in a general election, I can’t see how they will split any vote. The snp is not about to disband and reform a new party including the ssp and greens. Who will be the leader?, what will the new manifesto be?in case you have been asleep for the last 2 years, it doesn’t matter who we elect for Westminster. If the Tories with or without ukip have a majority, then these snp mp’s are interesting, nothing more, but if a Tory/ukip alliance without a majority, then the snp can press home an advantage, FFA, the Scottish mp’s return to Carlton hill and form the defacto upper house of the Scottish parliament and vote electronically on defense and foreign affairs issues in Westminster. EV4EL issue sorted, and the Tories with a majority government of everything else in Westminster
Jackie baillie – Flumps
No.
Wagon Wheels – the ones that fall off.
Ian Brotherhood
Drawing a short straw would have done Ian, lol, OK, you have volunteered to watch the Lib/Dem Conference on behalf of the Wings community, good luck sir, you’ll need it.
Have you noticed how all the Westminster Parties are predicting the end of the world if any of their opponents get into power.
That’s not what they were telling us Scots before we voted in the Referendum. It was, Vote NO and everything will be just fine, no matter who is in power.
The SSP contested 10 seats in 2010 with a total 3157 votes
The SNP are not about to form an alliance with them, they will not split the vote
Jon D
Dont forget Salmonds bullshit baps
Cuilean
Congratulations on joining the “What TV License?” Society.
I think the number of non-payers is so large now, that the Beeb must be getting seriously concerned.
It will soon be compulsory for anyone who contributes to the Wings site , must be an ex BBC TV License holder.
Aldi and Lidl both do a very tasty version of caramel wafers at a fraction of the turncoats price
@Schrödinger’s cat @ 11.07am “Alliance party
Never happen” Agree, only the SNP can challenge the Unionist MPs, particularly the British Labour MPs. If there is going to be any sort of loose political “alliance” with the Greens and SSP I would suggest that the the Greens are given a seat in Edinburgh and the SSP one in Glasgow or North Lanarkshire and the parties should stand as SNP-YES, Green-YES, and SSP-YES. To start with a new party name would IMO be a disaster.
Omg just read Alan Cochrane column of 3rd, has to be the most disgusting and vile attack on AS to date. It came up in a friend’s feed, saying it had just driven them to join SNP.
@Skip_NC says: 5 October, 2014 at 3:33 am:
Completely O/T, but I found this piece by Vernon Bogdanor – how can I put it? – interesting. you might want to take the blood pressure meds before clicking on the links. link to nytimes.com
I only needed to read the very first sentence, “It has been said that the British constitution is not worth the paper it is not written on”, to realise this Vernon Bogdanor, (Professor of government at King’s College, London, and the author of “The New British Constitution.”). Is as relevant to anything to do with politics as is my wee papillon bitch.
There is no such thing as a, “British” constitution – written or not. For the very good reason there is no such thing as a government of Britain. Anyone making such a basic error is thus working from a basic misconception and can be dismissed as talking utter balderdash. Britain is neither a state, a country nor a part of a state or country.
Britain is an archipelago that contains a, two kingdom, union called the United Kingdom, three non-UK Crown Dependencies and a Republic, (which republic cannot thus be part of either a kingdom or a crown dependency).
Like much of the Westminster Establishment this professor imagines the United Kingdom is running all Britain and is a great World Power punching above it’s weight. What is more he is writing in a USA paper and they are too bloody dim to understand how stupid, “The Good Professor”, really is.
Scottish Green Party Edinburgh east, highest score in any constituency, 5% of the vote! finished 5th with 2035 votes
Not at the races
Better if they didn’t stand at all, they will just split the Indy vote
On the Brown petition (our one) which I eventually goy round to signing I noted this comment which I read out to my daughter who like myself is a fan of inventive abuse
Because Gordon Brown is a potato-faced Visigoth who destroys everything he touches, like an epileptic Dalek made out of roped-together burst sofa cushions. I hope he shits out his skeleton in the middle of the night and it runs away to join the circus
Harsh but creative enough to frame 🙂
Just watched BBC Andrew Neil’s thrill of UKIP future reign and now LibDem MSP says Libdems have to move on from “mistakes like tuition fees” as SNP say £1 bn in unpaid Scottish student fees shock! See what I did there? I could be a Tory boy hack at the Beeb or any news room across this nonsense Union and now next up, Tory boy from North East with thrill of NO thanks win.
Immigration anyone? Oh Canada, land of the free USA, advance Australia fair….
Edinburgh east, which 10 months later, the eastern Edinburgh holy rood constituency, which contains 3 quarters of the westminstminster Edinburgh east constituency, was won by Kenny mcgaskill with 47% of the vote
HandAanDshrimp thanks for sharing, excellent piece of abuse!
Also just watched No Thanks BBC Gordon Brewer completely monster SNP MSP with all usual butt ins, trip ups etc but this is great. Far right liggers like Comical Cockers and Brewer still trying to stamp out Scottish YES for why and, “say there will NOT be a ref 2! Go on say it!”
Almost worth not paying old sweaty Brewer’s wages, m’lud.
@Handanshrimp
Probably the most inventive piece of abuse I’ve seen in some time. I doff my bunnet to the author. 😀
I note with disgust that both Kirsty Wark and Sally Magnussen have been nominated for the Saltire award .
I sincerely hope that the other nominees , of whom I have never heard , beat them into a cockit hat.
However should they win , I will view it as luvvies patting each other on the back much like the TV soap awards.
@handandshrimp
That was certainly creative abuse. So much so that I wonder if it was Stu himself who wrote it?
link to arcofprosperity.org
I have changed to using Firefox because Chrome was getting very slow. However, I now have to fill in the username and password each time and the posts take ages to appear. Anyone have a solution for this? There’s nothing in the Options which prevents remembering passwords and other sites which use WordPress are OK.
caz-m says:
“I think the number of non-payers is so large now, that the Beeb must be getting seriously concerned.”
And here’s another one who won’t be paying the licence fee again. I’m just composing a sarcastic letter to them right now.
Today’s Sunday Politics (Scotland edition) was awful. It reminded me why I hardly watch the BBC anymore. Curtice and Brewer had a chat, which mostly seemed to be about SLAB’ chances for the 2015 and 2016 elections. They were clearly concerned for SLAB. Then, the awful smug, grinning Jackie Baillie was on. She was seen nodding away in agreement with Brewer. I am afraid the SNP’s Claire Adamson was not nearly assertive enough, seems to be continuing the trend of recent years. To complete the misery, Paul Hutcheson and Lindsay McIntosh were on at the end. Hutcheson was surprisingly okay for the most part, but as for Lindsay McIntosh….
She was horrendous, came across as a diehard Tory, of the Osborne variety. She was clearly against the Poll Tax debts being written off, had a snide go at Salmond for having the temerity to phone in Kaye Adams’ show, and then both her and Hutcheson claimed they had no idea what Devo max was/is! WTF are they doing in their jobs if they do not know what Devo max is? So they claim to be in ignorance of a term that the SG defined in their first term in office as being all powers, apart from foreign affairs, defence, and one or two taxation powers, being devolved to Holyrood. It was a classic BBC Scotland attempt at manufacturing consent. The MSM in Scotland are corrupt.
Tory Gordon Brewer’s fear & anger at SNP was palpable today. Clearly thought it his job to jump down SNP MSP’s throat every time she tried to complete a sentence. Between him and the perfidious Jackie Baillie for Labour, the SNP MSP had no chance of even finishing a sentence or even debating reasonably. Dreadful. She actually could not annunciate more that two or three words without either Brewer or baillie tripping over their own hatred, to silence her. Brewer after two words from the SNP would interrupt with ‘OK’ even although she had not been able to put any point. ‘OK’ is Brewer speak for ‘Shutup now, I want to lecture you again on MY views’.I thought the point of interviews were to illicit information from all participants. Baillie was given three times the freedom of speech that the SNP was given and the attempts to answer any question was met with OTT glares, spittle wiping and finger jabbing. It was so blatantly obvious that no free speech was to be proffered to an SNP viewpoint and in fact the SNP presence was only so that Brewer could menace and growl over the right of the Scottish People to choose independence at a future date. I only wish I could cancel my BBC licence again. Dreadful bias truly dreadful. Brewer has no sense at how starkly absurd his antics play out on the TV to viewers or he does know, but simply does not care as there is no competition to the UKOK worldview. Not one mention of the VOW and new powers. NOt one mention of the SNP’s soaring membership. God that must eat Brewer up!I do sympathise with Lesley Riddoch’s views on male run interviews & lip service to impartiality as displayed thereon. Baillie gleefully nodded and smirked throughout Brewer’s male rants and repeated lectures. How much longer does the Scottish public have to put up with this whitewashing MSM SLAB propaganda? Roll on May 2015
I cancelled my licence about 2 months ago ,quoting ” I can get lied to for free – why should I PAY your institution to lie to me?” Since then , in spite of their first reply saying I wouldn’t hear from them for 2 years, I’ve had 6 letters – each one telling me I live in an unlicensed household !
Yesterday, I received yet another -this time stating I’d be getting “a priority visit “.
Oh! Joy! I’ve never slammed my door in anybody’s face ( my mammy raised me right !) but I’m looking forward to it !
@Nana Smith
Looks like a good game plan to me. Arc of Prosperity seem to have done a pretty thorough analysis.
I am afraid the SNP’s Claire Adamson was not nearly assertive enough, seems to be continuing the trend of recent years.
I agree. She was way too slack. By now they should all be getting to grips with these reprobates and hitting back hard with stuff like, “Crash and The VOW, devo max, federalist UKOK have got to be tested electorally, so yes, we want a ref 2.0” but thats just what I would do, slumped up in me scratcher.
Even, “UKOK completely flipped the referendum at the last minute and after nearly a million postal votes future Sir Gordon, Crash and co invalidated entire 18th Sept vote and of course the whole ref, so yup, Ref 2 bring it on BBC.”
“Crash and co left out devo max option from 18th Sept ref, then they slammed it all in at last minute THE VOW but not on ballot paper, so YES, get second ref going on our time frame, not Westminsters”
Obviously I wouldn’t use the term Crash live on the old Sweatie sez vote NO or else show.
Thinking about the referendum, and I rarely think of anything else these days. There were so many elements involved in our losing. In a way, I think the SNP were the victims of their own success apart from anything else.
They did a pretty good job of protecting the Scottish people from the worst excesses of Westminster for seven years. Some people forgot. Now they will be sharply reminded of just how wicked these people, particularly the tories, are. Too late.
@Capella:
Strange. Which kind of computer do you own? PC or Mac?
Betty, having had the misfortune to live in not one but two three storey houses. I have learned that the one way of ensuring that people understand I am not pleased to see or hear from them is to slam the door firmly in their faces. I have had the pleasure if that is the word of doing so to many in the past, and yes my Mum would be thoroughly ashamed of me. I have slammed it firmly in the face of the Mormons, and quite a few others who have dragged me out of a nice warm room over the years.
As soon as our new bank account is fixed up the BBC will be cancelled. So it will be with great delight I slam the door in their representatives faces as well.
Ho Ho
We are being encouraged by David Cameron to seek out promised land outside Scotland and emigrate.
That should give him lots of urban grouse shooting fun?
link to panarabiaenquirer.com
Can I ask if it would be better if the SNP refused to appear on these programmes? They do not get a fair shake and surely it would be better to simply not attend or to get up if the behaviour of the interviewer does not allow a reply? I can see that this might back fire on them but having watched so many people in the past do so, perhaps it just might make people realise that there are no fair shakes from the BBC.
John H
Another BBC License bites the dust.
Congratulations on taking the first steps to Scottish Independence.
You are now free from the bias shackles of the BBC Establishment.
You will actually physically feel as if you have just escaped from a dark, damp cave somewhere and broke free to see the light of an Independent Scotland.
Spread the word, stop paying for your enemy to attack you.
You suddenly realise that you have been paying for Jackie Bird’s mortgage. AAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!
Robert peffers @ 11:50am
Well said. It is tiring, to say the least, reading mindless pap such as that by the allegedly ‘learned’ professor, who doesn’t even understand the basics of what makes up the United Kingdom. His failing in that first hurdle, renders his writing – and by extension – his opinions, meaningless.
If only these so – called ‘experts’ on constitutional matters from Engerland, could just once detatch themselves from the Britannia hubris they were fed at school, and just look at the facts.
Perhaps the so-called ‘Professor’, might like to commence his understanding of Scottish constitutional matters, here;
link to lril.oxfordjournals.org
Or even better here;
link to bailii.org
Drawing attention of course to the views of the Lord President, Lord Cooper, from the Court of Session in Edinburgh, during MacCormick Vs. Lord advocate, July 1953.
QUOTE : “The principle of the unlimited sovereignty of Parliament is a distinctively English principle which has no counterpart in Scottish constitutional law. It derives its origin from Coke and Blackstone, and was widely popularised during the nineteenth century by Bagehot and Dicey, the latter having stated the doctrine in its classic form in his Law of the Constitution. Considering that the Union legislation extinguished the Parliaments of Scotland and England and replaced them by a new Parliament, I have difficulty in seeing why it should have been supposed that the new Parliament of Great Britain must inherit all the peculiar characteristics of the English Parliament but none of the Scottish Parliament, as if all that happened in 1707 was that Scottish representatives were admitted to the Parliament of England. That is not what was done.”
Now then where does that fit into this fictional, supposedly unwritten ‘British constitution’?? Stuff and nonsense, honestly.
Its worth watching Baillie and Brewer working up a UKOK sweat together though if only as preview for Labour and BBC GE campaign, vote SNP, get Tory. Simple, straight forward and as usual makes a total mockery of Baillie, Curran etc saying they have to listen to YES voters, now.
Sad to see Tellen1 and Aliesbabas have disappeared from CiF now too. I really miss them
link to notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com
link to facebook.com
in no particular order. Mind tellen I mean Murphy going berserk when an adorable pensioner did something outrageous and asked Jim a question?
link to wingsoverscotland.com
A view re the referendum, not more democratic than Uganda
link to newvision.co.ug
Heedtracker
If your gnomes are correct re Albie then as a participant in Lord Smith’s commission I think to play the message boards would be straight forward red card.
Norse Warrior was only ever a one trick pony. So no real surprise there.
Can I ask if it would be better if the SNP refused to appear on these programmes?
SNP should be on all of them. Even from the look of cold fear on old sweatie Brewers face this morn is enough to show why. We have to demand a second ref long and loud and the more it makes the BBC freak show sweat, the better.
THIS IS DEMOCRACY. We can ask anything we like. Whether or not we get a ref 2, is actually not that important now.
In the Ukraine there has been an increase in the number of assaults on the local MPs. This is because the people are fed up with their MPs corruption and lies.
What they do is chase them around the car park outside the government buildings, when they catch them, they pick them up and throw them in a wheelie bin, then pelt them with rotten fruit etc…
That policy is OK if your local member is Wullie Rennie, but if you are unlucky enough to have Jackie Baillie as your local MSP then Your luck is right out.
Imagine chasin Jackie Baillie round a car park, then picking her up and throwing her into a wheelie bin, No Thanks, as they say down Better Together way.
Please accept my apologies if you are of the larger frame.
Every No voter should have pages 4,5 and 6 of today’s Sunday Herald stapled to their fucking faces – don’t let any of them claim ignorance as some kind of defence for what they’ve done.
caz-m
Manitou and skip followed by a pebbling of rotten fruit, veg and stinky eggs.
FYI
Manitou
link to fr.manitou.com
Ian Brotherhood
They are the dying generation in Scotland of the Thatcher Years in Scotland, the “greed is good” silent greedy bastard middle class who wouldn’t campaign for a Tory but would sit silently at home purring, cohort.
And yet I keep coming back to the same question. As it now seems that they were counting postal votes before the day, where previously I knew they could read them without opening them. So if the postals were 70/30 no/Yes why did they panic in the last fortnight? Bearing in mind 3/4 were reportedly returned by 2 weeks prior to the 18th.
Surly the 70/30 result would have encouraged complacency, not a panic?
I don’t know how they did it, but I’m sure they fixed the result. Its those postal votes. Somehow they were pockled.
That is why Harris, Alexander and Murphy get in in affluent areas.
These three are their tories, without having to campaign in public for them.
Harris, Alexandera and Murphy will do the dirty work for them and there is always the SE of England working hard for the Tories as well.
Gordon Geckos, all of them.
Affluent? Effluent surely?
@ HandandShrimp, saw that. Just the idea that Aliebadas is “nominated” to be on it shows how great a fraud it all is. He’s a raging NO on anything Scotland and democracy but like a surprsingly large amount of our vote NO or else chums, they all now say how much they are actually for a democratic devo Scotland.
Prof Tomkin;s presence merely reflects how the balance of real power lies entirely with unionists and their media lackies. Forget about how openingly deceitful the Prof really is, look at him at work vote No camping with one more super rich groveling lackey, George Galloway. What a team.
link to youtube.com
Its not the fake Slovene nonsense that makes a mockery of Tomkins, its his perpetual “SNP are liars” that rules him out of any and all negotiations. Did SNP lie about everything if we voted YES as Prof T says or, SNP proposals and planning were exactly that, proposal and plan.
Not for the first time, I do not envy SNP MSP’s having to be even in the same room as even this one shill alone.
Now Paula dear, the Rev is hauling up the Sunday Times for not checking. You dont want him on your case.
Affluent = overflowing with cash, inconspicuous conspicuous consumption ie big house, large gardens, an Audi as the runabout, votes Naw but says Don’t Know.
Effluent = shorthand for the filthy rich, the sort who light their cigar with a £10 while standing outside a foodbank
Davidb, the rising panic in the past week or two was in spite of the postal vote, not because of it. Several moles have revealed that both sides had private internal opinion polls showing Yes on about 53% going into the last week. That did it.
I think the veiled, crossed-fingers “promises” of devo-max were the absolute last thing they wanted to do. If they had won solely on the basis of Project Fear, we’d have been truly shafted. Nothing we could do because it would be impossible to prove hypothetically that they’d been lying.
Now, though, we have the important card to play that the N vote was won on the basis of promises of very substantial new powers. They either fulfil these promises, in which case we will be in a much stronger position, or they don’t, in which case the 2014 result loses all legitimacy.
The Scottish Tories are trying to out do Ian Smart and the Labour Party (North Britain branch):
link to twitter.com
I bet this will be all over the BBC Scotland evening news…
Labour MPs do have huge majorities in their west of Scotland strongholds, but they are definitely beatable. Think how many of these areas fell to the SNP in 2011, and then add 30% of traditional Labour voters who voted for independence last month, and you have serious, potentially fatal outcomes for a number of SLAB troughers next year. If the people of Scotland seriously want more power in the short term, they know what they have to do. If they fail to change their GE voting habits, then they are not really all that bothered about devo max.
“RED TORIES OUT OF GLASGOW”
Sounds like a powerful, easily understood message to spread next May (and other areas of course).
Very interesting to note that Nicola Sturgeon has tweeted today, that her Glasgow South SNP branch now has more than 1,000 members.
Pretty impressive.
Betty Craney
That’s the spirit.
We’re fighting the estsblishment and we’re going to win door slam by door slam.
@ Paula Rose,
That is why they are quiet about voting Tory, they don’t like the smell about them of filthy lucre.
Link to Scottish Left Review, articles by Nicola Sturgeon, Colin Fox, Cat Boyd, Allan Grogan, amongst others.
link to scottishleftreview.org
@No no no…Yes
The arhive below just in case he sees sense.
link to archive.today
Looking at the Edinburgh Agreement Section 29 “Government activity during the 28 days before the Referendum”, the UK Government clearly breached this part of the Agreement.
29. It is customary for there to be a period before elections in the UK, during which Ministers and other public bodies refrain from publishing material that would have a bearing on the election. Section 125 of PPERA sets out the restrictions that apply to Ministers and public bodies in the 28 days preceding referendums held under that Act. Both governments recognise the importance of respecting the 28-day period prior to a referendum, in the same way that both governments already respect each other’s pre-election period for Parliamentary elections. The Scottish Government will set out details of restricted behaviour for Scottish Ministers and devolved public bodies in the Referendum Bill to be introduced into the Scottish Parliament. These details will be based on the restrictions set out in PPERA. The UK Government has committed to act according to the same PPERA-based rules during the 28 day period.
If the Scottish Government are to abide by the Agreement, how can the UK Government be allowed to get away with breaching it?. I already know the answer to that one. 🙁
Hi, I will be down in Glasgow on Friday 14th Nvember.
I found 4 Tunnock’s Caramel Logs in the kitchen in gold wrapping (which look like gold bars).
I will be handing them into the BBC along with 30 x 5 pence pieces in a nice wee pouch. So they will receive 4 gold bars and 30 pieces of silver for their TOTALLY BIASED COVERAGE and Judas-like sell out of Scotland during the referendum.
I am not sure what time I will be in Glasgow, but it should be early afternoon if anyone wants to come along.
Gary
@AuldA 1.31
It’s a PC running Windows 8 so all different from previous versions. But Chrome works ok although slow and unresponsive so often that I decided to use Firefox. I assume it’s Firefox 3 as there seems to be no way of checking. No About button.
Tis post will probably take ages to appear. Writing it at 15:20
I’ve archived that tweet from murdo fraser, these people are truly showing thier colours…no veneers to disguise thier smears.
link to archive.today
Did you submit the comment at 3:21 Capella?
Capella, your post appeared at 15.20 according to the time stamp, and I read it at 15.22.
I’m running Firefox on a PC on Windows 8.1, and I’m not having any of these problems. My posts appear when I submit them, and my details stay in the comments boxes.
I did have a couple of posts that didn’t appear several days ago, but no problem at the moment.
I came home for the referendum (I am working in Italy at the moment but Scotland is my home). Before I came home on the night of the 17th Sep, everyone was talking about here in Italy also as well during the flight home. There was a huge amount of excitement in the air and I could feel in my bones something special was going to happen. I sat up all night on the 18th Sep and nothing could have prepared me forthe sheer sadness almost like a grief feeling I had and even now I feel sad about it! Theres something that just feels wrong about it all and now I cant even watch the bbc news to keep in touch with whats happening at home because all the Westminster politacians and the propaganda make me feel sick. Something needs to change because ok Westminster have got their wishes but it feels like the Scottish people have lost their country.Yet you had the no voters cheering as if yhey had won a football game. When will people realise it was worth so much more than that? Anyway when David Cameron unleashes his punishment on us just for gaving a referendum then maybe they will realise but its just too late. We need to fix this problem, something has to change. In the meantime I am happy to find this site to keep me updated on whats happening as I cant rely on BBC for news any more. Keep up the posts and the inspiration, Katie
Trying to find some footage from Women for Independence @ Perth yesterday if anyone can assist?
Thanks in advance.
No no no, what is more interesting is the people who favourated the tweet, among others Euan McColm Scotsman “journalist”
Ian Brotherhood 2pm
Absolutely. For us all to have been proved right over the last fortnight gives me no joy whatsoever.
I also read the SH this morning and the quotes from the charity representatives left me shaking my head in disbelief.
These ‘Azure’ cards given to asylum seekers as a trial, which can only be used in certain shops to buy certain foodstuffs seemed to me inhuman.
Imagine you are completely skint, unemployed and living a hand to mouth existence on benefits. You walk into the supermarket and instead of buying your messages like a normal human being, you have a card that tells everyone in the queue behind you, and the shop assistant that you are receiving benefits. They might as well make you wear a yellow star or queue at a separate hatch like they do with the methadone addicts at pharmacists.
I was stopped by a Japanese TV crew in affluent Stockbridge this afternoon. The guy asked me how I had voted and after I replied Yes he thanked me and didn’t want anymore. I asked him why.
‘We’ve got plenty of footage from Yes voters already. I am trying to find some No voters and there doesn’t seem to be any.”
“They’re ashamed” says I.
“Do you think I won’t find any round here?”
“NO. THEY’RE ASHAMED” Something made me temporarily lose it in the midst of busy Stockbridge and I think it was the piece you mentioned in the Herald this morning.
Funny thing is, if you throw a stone in Stockbridge you would almost certainly hit a No voter. I wouldn’t advocate that but they certainly should be ashamed. Nicola Sturgeon mentioned again to the extra 100,000 children being forced into poverty BEFORE the latest austerity measures.
The problem has been that just over 55% of the population did not care.
@Capella – You can download windows 8.1 for free it’s supposed to solve some of the problems of 8.
It takes a while to download and you have to reload some data
I posted it at 3.20 but it didn’t appear when I posted it. I refreshed later and it has appeared timestamped 3.20. Sometimes I have to refresh several times before it appears, much later than posted.
My username and email are still not automatically appearing in the boxes. Nuisance. Will probably have to revert to Chrome. I looked up Firefox support but no solutions there.
Posting this at 15.36
Thanks for the help. I’ve gone back to Chrome, at least for this site until I can fix whatever it is. My last post didn’t appear at all so there is something odd going on with Firefox. I’ll check out upgrade to 8.1 (if indeed i don’t already have it!).
Some interesting details on the blank ballots from Naomi Wolf here;
link to tinyurl.com
She’s going to be attending the Hope Over Fear rally in Glasgow and has a spreadsheet detailing blank ballots, if you think you had such a ballot issued to you then you might be able to add your details before she arrives, possibly via her FB.
Angela Constance is the third candidate for the SNP deputy, here’s what the Sunday Herald had to say about it:
Ms Constance is also proposing mechanisms to support a close working relationship with the wider Yes movement and grassroots organisations.
Any non-party political organisation that expressed support for independence would be able to become an affiliated body to the SNP after approval by the national conference and be entitled to non-voting participation on the party’s national executive committee as well as full delegate participation at subsequent conferences.
Organisations which might choose to apply for this status include Women for Independence, Business for Scotland and the Common Weal.
Here’s a taster;
“WOW, shocking. Scotland your Referendum had a built in barrier to transparency or review. A Judicial Review costs up to twenty thousand pounds according to Alan’s research and that is the only remedy built into the 2013 Referendum Bill — again a vast deviation from international standards. Checking that the vote ls accurate is not supposed to cost any private money.”
Hi all, I’m not looking for a debate, I just want to “say my peece and that’s it”.
17.6 years ago..
according to a date and time calculator I’ve been an Ex pat in England for money and prospects.
I’m nearly 45.
At the time of “my” clearance,being too qualified or too inexperienced to get an engineering job in the EH54 area, at an age older than YTS after 4 years of BTEC was the mantra, go to England, get a job, be a flunky, I “moved” as I was made redundant from Mimtec at an easter holday with no more to look forward to than another maybe chance at turning up at 5am on a list of spanners for a 12 hour shift after a 2 hour drive away job – if your face fits, you can be away from home for 14/15 hrs a day, and be grateful.
Not once in these 6,400 days have I ever not daily thought about my country and how much I love it and it’s people, and my family – for all it’s radgies for better or worse.
Until September 2014 it was kept under my skin.
I just can’t do it anymore, I can’t subjugate the sorry god bless ya guvnor forced transfusion of blood and attitude my family from Scotland, Ireland and Wales have been taught to accept.
The Welsh have a word for it, and it translates as “a longing” – and that’s what binds me to this movement.
“Scotland expects” seems like a good banner to me just now.
Keep up the good work WoS please.
@ Morag, hello again, Morag I probably missed the info but do you know where you can get formal data on the ref postal ballot paper “sampling” that happened? I know you think its a conspiracy theory too far but…
How many postal were actually sampled and how often?
When did the councils start sampling postal votes?
And, why are postal votes actually opened up anyway?
Is the opened ballot paper removed from the sealed envelope and then placed in a ballot box?
It’s virtually impossible to get any information on sampling out of Aberdeen cooncil although they are busy hunting poll tax evaders from the 80’s.
Lovely bunch oor cooncil.
The SNP should have an iPhone or whatever just for being on TV. Devlop a simple app where someone remote has a list of speakers inclduding say Brewer, and touch on the name when they’re speaking.
A the end the SNP representative looks at the iPhone and just says “Well Gordon, I’ve had 43 seconds, Baillie has had 10 minutes, far-right has had 5 minutes and you 13 minutes. Do you think that’s fair?”
to Capella etc
My first post is in moderation.
I am glad I know I am paranoid, otherwise….
again
“I blame Windows 8
Do you know Windows 8 is so buggered that they are launching Windows 10 later this year without any Windows 9 so they can distance themselves from Windows 8.
Pony up folks you will need to pay for Microsoft’s mistakes.
Funnily enough I just found out that the money machines work in Windows XP, because it worked.”
test
Fair play to the Sunday Herald. Their principled support for independence, and the increased circulation it has brought, seems to have given them the courage to be a truly crusading newspaper.
Today’s edition had me in sad and angry in equal measure.
We must support it. Boycott the daily, Buy the Sunday. Let their owners see the difference.
I seem to be in moderation for anything longer than a test post or this one, perhaps?
tick tock
here goes
@ Capella
Do you know Windows 8 is so buggered that they are launching Windows 10 later this year without any Windows 9 so they can distance themselves from Windows 8.
Pony up folks you will need to pay for Microsoft’s mistakes.
Funnily enough I just found out that the money machines work in Windows XP, because it worked.”
so, is the profanity filter windows or Windows 8 or the word buggered?
Ok Windows 10 to be launched by the end of this year after the clusterferk that is Windows 8
And still Microsoft advance. They are worse than Tories, if that were possible?
Windows 10
Microsoft?
Yep the bad word trigger is that Seattle based software company wot builds windows.
Do you know Windows 8 is so buggered that they are launching Windows 10 later this year without any Windows 9 so they can distance themselves from Windows 8.
Pony up folks you will need to pay for “xyz’s” mistakes.
Funnily enough I just found out that the money machines work in Windows XP, because it worked.”
Good article by Jamie Maxwell, son of Stephen Maxwell, on the Scottish middle class, and their general lack of a backbone on leading Scotland politically. Unfortunately it is in the Daily Record:
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
SquareHaggis
Naomi Wolf has written 8 books, which appear mostly to be a bit off the wall from reviews Illoke at a few days back. This will be her ninth strange book titled “How Scotland was kept in the UK by cross-dimensional invervention from SG-1”.
Any chance of archiving the Jamie Maxwell article? I refuse to press on the websites of unionist newspapers.
Heedtracker
The term ‘sampling’ in reference to the PV is a wee bit misleading as it suggests a formal selection of Ballot papers for inspection which isn’t the case. The ‘sampling’ consists of a representative standing watching the PV’s being opened and noting where the ‘X’ is if a ballot paper is inadvertently visible. In that respect it could be viewed as a random ‘sample’ of the votes.
@B(tP)@16.10 – you would be frightened how many banks still use Windows NT as a front end to the cash points..shhh say no more
So basically, we want independence according to these poll results, yet we have an issue with the word “independence”
BtP
I have a consistent 25 minute before the page will referesh, then my postings and others automagically appear.
It must be a caching problem, probably nothing to do with the browser as I had it on 2 browsers on one computer / BB link, and a different browser on a laptop different BB link. Pretty old kit all the same so a bit slow in themselves.
Microsoft 🙂
yesindyref2 says: I worked with Angela Constance’s mother for a couple of years, straight talking was Mum and I have no problem with the daughter.
Thanks Bob. But why does postal vote sampling happen anyway? We know there are 800,000 postal votes so how many were actually opened and where were they stored?
Is there a record kept of sampling numbers?
Was sampling done everyday from the date they were all sent out?
Where is there law for sampling?
If there are records, where are they kept?
Yesindyref2,
She does seem a little off the wall, true
But still, her FB timeline has some interesting info from people who are not Naomi Wolf.
Just thought it worth a gander is all.
@heedtracker
I do not think it is formal so there will be no law
Postal ballots are taken out of the envelopes and placed in ballot boxes, as I understand it. That process is observed by reps, just like the count, and that is for obvious reasons. Those reps try to get a peek at what is on the ballots, and inevitably succeed some of the time. I think that is in line with What Bob already said. There is nothing sinister there at all, so far as I can tell. I think you are asking for things which cannot and will not exist under current arrangements
@ Faltdubh – If we’d called it ‘full responsibility’ instead of ‘independence’, maybe it would have got through to people, especially as BTNobs etc would have had to campaign for irresponsibility.
Faltdubh
Interesting and suppose encouraging figures. Just highlights what a fickle and spineless lot we are though.
@Capella, Morag:
I don’t think the browser has much to do with the phenomena you’re witnessing which are caused by the website itself fending off malevolent connections.
If you refresh the site while the traffic is low you get immediate feedback, otherwise you have to wait for a random period of time before your message appears. The best way to know that your message has been registered, albeit it does not echo immediately, is by noting than, once you clicked the ‘submit comment’ button, you end up at the top of the page rather than the bottom where you were just before.
@BtP:
Yes, ATM work on Windows XP. There was a tidal wave of intense fear when Microsoft officially declared XP obsolete and gave up dispatching service packs. However, as you noted, it just works, and since ATM are not connected to Internet, they’re fine.
Watch out for OS X 10.10 in the following days.
Via @Mutley79
Good article by Jamie Maxwell, son of Stephen Maxwell, on the Scottish middle class, and their general lack of a backbone on leading Scotland politically. Unfortunately it is in the Daily Record:
link to archive.today
@yesindyref2:
In fact, it is more likely tied to your IP address. Best way would be to post through your home Internet access and try to read the site with your smartphone using 3/4G, if you have a smartphone and/or a 3/4G contract.
Heedtacker,
Someone said on here before the vote that you could see through both envelopes and locate where the X was if you held them up to a 100w bulb. Maybe that’s how they did the sampling?
I’ve checked and it is Windows 8.1 that my PC is running (hate Windows but this is the “lounge” PC for watching videos etc and Adobe flash no longer supports Linux which our “open source friendly” BBC have done a deal with to stream all their iPlayer content but that’s another blog and I no longer wath BBC stuff anyway now!)
Must be some security “feature” interfering with saving paswords but only seems to affect this site!
@BtP so it’s curtains for Windows from you too?
Heed
All postal votes are opened, not just a random sample. The signature and date of birth are checked, the ballot itself is put back in the smaller envelope, and then resealed (though they don’t say how exactly!), and that envelope put in a ballot box, which is then put in a safe or safe place at the end of the opening session.
All unitary authorities have a central counting place where these postal ballots are opened, all openings are scheduled at lest 2 days in advance, and all campaigns are notified in advance of the opening, and allowed to have reps to supervise the opening and checking. As far as I know every one of the 32 unitary authorities has at least one SNP councillor who would have been able to make sure that the postal ballots were safely stored – electons with SNP members have been going on for many years. The SNP have raised no objection.
Sampling refers to the accidental viewing of the vote itself, the reps or openeners are not allowed by law to keep a tally even in their own minds and can be proesecuted if they do. If they tell anyone else that mental tally, they can be prosecuted.
@Kenny
You don’t have to click on the link to archive. Just right click and “copy link address” then go to archive today and paste it into the box then submit. After a few seconds you get the archived page. Here it is:
link to archive.today
archive today here
link to archive.today
Paula Rose , I love that!
Of course, now that I’ve looked at it I see that the DR doesn’t show the article unless you answer a couple of “questions” which I won’t do. Don’t really care enough about their articles anyway. Any decent journalist can set up their own website and publish articles there.
heedtracker says: Thanks for the reply, not my own idea, husband thinks they should refuse but I think they should be there but I do think they need to stop speaking when they are interrupted. This would mean that when they are asked for a reply and they will after the opposition have spent their bile, they can say “So you now want a reply, are you going to give me time to speak”. There are people out there who do not recognise that the media has done anything wrong, I kid you not, this needs to be pointed out and hard by those on the receiving end.
@Capella, @Morag:
as I said in a message that got lost, the browser is probably not responsible for the delays. The website is. The time it takes to get your message displayed seems to directly depend on the load of the machine which serves this site. The more it is charged, the longer you have to wait. Irrespective of what browser you’re using.
@BtP:
There was a tidal wave of intense fright when Microsoft officials declared XP obsolete and ceased to post service packs. However, as you say, XP works, and since no ATM is connected to the Internet, well—it kept going like this…
Posting… 3… 2… 1… Commit!
AuldA and Capella
I am on Apple OSX 10.9.5
switched when I was due to buy a laptop and saw Wndows 8.
try using f5 2 or 3 times.
AuldA
My laptop is on Sky and a dynamicaly allocated IP address. The 2 desk computers (one a backup) are on a block of 8 static IP address currently NAT – I did have plans to use a spare computer for a home webserver on Linux so I could mess around with say 2 or 3 unimportant websites, or try VOIP, but never got around to it 🙂
Windows XP on the desk ones, Vista on the laptop. Cleared out caches, use ccleaner, still the 25 min refresh delay on all 3. Ironically the backup is the faster computer, the older one (homebuilt twin disk) is still cranking or creaking away.
By the way, that M…. word I posted didn’t get through!
Nicrosoft?
Bugger, one of the strangest words the spam filter catches is c o r n f l a k e s. I asked Stuart about this and he has no idea why this happens.
Just as well Paul only ate a generic cereal, isn’t it? If he’d been snacking on Kellog’s finest, nobody’s posts would have got through!
@ yesindyref2, Heed
All postal votes are opened, not just a random sample. The signature and date of birth are checked, the ballot itself is put back in the smaller envelope, and then resealed (though they don’t say how exactly!), and that envelope put in a ballot box, which is then put in a safe or safe place at the end of the opening session.
Thanks for info. The problem is this. I had a postal vote. It came with two envelopes A and B. The ballot paper went into and is sealed with lickable glue right? Then that goes into envelope B. BUT there is an attachment to the sealed envelope A where you sign and put your date of birth and this states clearly where its going to be ripped off leaving the ballot sealed in envelope A.
Can you see where I am going WTF?
I assumed the ballot counter tears off the signature sheet, checks signature, DOB and envelope A remains sealed.
SO Why are they opening envelope A in the first place and at the same time?
Again, envelope A is sealed by the voter at home and the counter can remove the signature sheet without opening A until polling day.
Now you say its Ok because they open ALL envelope A;s, they open them all prior to polling day , and then reseal them!
This is absolutely insane, or quite normal.
If its time saving on polling day, say they don’t have time to open two envelopes after the 10pm closing , what on earth is the point of having a sealed envelope A in the first place?
Its just mind boggling, jaw droppingly mental to put people to all the hassle of 2 sealed envelopes where the seal means jack shit.
Or its all sane as you like.
@yesindyref2:
So your IP gives you a dynamic IP. You could try to reset the connection, knowing that you change the IP address each time you dial up.
Running a website on a dynamic IP access is a pain the neck. You’ll have to use a DDNS service to translate your service name. I have little experience in these, though I know you can find some free DDNS servers around.
Now, that was a first: I posted two messages. The latter appeared before the former, who got inserted later. I thought the older was lost.
@BtP: Micro$oft
@Capella: Does not the BBC use the HTML5 video tag to broadcast video on the net? If not, they’re just twerps.
A week or so ago I wrote quite a lengthy post that didn’t get through. I had saved it, and I started posting it in chunks. The first two went through, but the third didn’t. I substituted the word that seemed likely to be causing the problem with another, but that didn’t work.
I tossed the third section, which was actually quite short, and wrote the same thought in entirely different words. That got through. (Then I realised I was in the wrong thread, copied all three parts, stiched them together again, and posted them with no trouble as a single post in the original thread – obviously the last bit was the re-written bit this time.)
I never found out what the problem word was in that paragraph. There seem to be some apparently innocuous character strings that trigger Akismet, and there’s no way to get a post through if it contains one.
When do we return to the topic of biscuits? Nice and Malted Milk haven’t been mentioned yet.
Hmmm. The name of Kellog’s finest cereal causes the post to vanish completely. The name of the manufacturer of Windows puts it into moderation. At least for me.
Corn Flakes
I think more people need to learn to use Linux…
When there’s a completely free and stable alternative to the “accepted mainstream” operating system, then as far as I’m concerned, if people refuse to use it, they can’t really complain about the problems with said mainstream OS.
Kind of like voting to save your country really, those who chose not to lose the right to complain when they get shafted afterwards… 😉
mine went into moderation as well but i presume they allow microsteal
Oneironaut
I am a neo luddite wrt tinternet and digital thingies.
Steam propelled, I understand by weird electrons?
Be gentle and understanding with us or we might vote No, again?
???ñ F?å???
By using off-topic as a sandbox I’ve just identified another perfectly ordinary word that doesn’t get through, and in fact may be causing multiple posts to be lost because it’s a word that might be used here on a regular basis.
The word is….
i n f l u e n c e
This is completely bizarre.
[Here’s the post that wouldn’t get through, with the banned word substituted.]
Well, Paula, the topic is really the allegation that the press “saved the union”, isn’t it. Or from where I’m standing, destroyed my country.
I have no idea what to do about it. Despite the best efforts of a number of committed and talented people, it’s very difficult to launch a new newspaper or TV station and succeed in competition with the existing titles. Worse than that, it may succeed through capturing the market of the existing Yes voters, but fail to persuade the No voters significantly.
If the BBC in particular had done its job, we’d be independent now. Its job was to hold both sides to account, not just one. Its job was to scrutinise the claims of the No campaign and expose where they were lying, and in particular where their attacks on the Yes posiiton were partisan and misleading.
Its job was also to look objectively at both possible futures. To examine not just a nightmare worst case scenario for independence, but also to give us a vision of what could be reasonably hoped for if after a Yes vote people simply behaved sensibly.
With nothing but a constant barrage of “you’ll be poverty-stricken international pariahs” to feed their dreams, is it any wonder some who genuinely want Scotland to be independent bottled it on the day?
Sorry, I’m getting depressed writing this, but the press and the BBC are our enemies and they seem to be untouchable.
@Heedtracker
I can only speak for the one council where I observed the opening of postal votes. This is what happened.
The outer, B, envelopes were counted, unopened, into bundles of 50. On the day I attended, there were 2,400 envelopes. Council staff were given these bundles. I think they were recounted, and checked to make sure the outer envelopes had a code number on them, but I am not certain about that now. The outer envelopes were then slit open, the inner, A, envelopes removed and kept in their bundle of 50, and the outer envelopes piled up. These were subsequently disposed of as “confidential waste”.
The Personal Voting Statements were then detached along the perforations from the inner envelopes containing the ballot papers. At all times both parts were kept in their bundles, in order, so that if any problems (see below) were discovered, it would be easy to locate them. The PVS were then scanned to see if the signatures and dates of birth matched those on the application for a postal vote. The scanning equipment was very fussy, and a surprising number were rejected. These had to be checked by a person; he looked at one side of a screen and I looked at the other, with the pair of application/PVS displayed together. Almost all of them were genuine; sometimes the voter had included a middle initial in one case but not the other, or crossed a 7, or used a red pen which didn’t scan properly, etc. The paper copies of the PVS were examined if need be. Tricky cases were referred to the man in charge of the operation. In the few cases where the signature was clearly different, plus a few sad ones where parent and child with the same name had signed each other’s forms so there was a pair of rejected PVSs, the associated envelope A was removed from its bundle (and stored, till after the count I think).
The remaining A envelopes were then opened and the ballots taken out; a check was performed on whether the number on the back of the paper matched that on the envelope. Although I did not see this happen, it was at this stage that two people at the same address putting their votes in each other’s envelopes, but signing the correct PVS, would have been picked up. This is a time-consuming process – the 2,400 ballots spread between 6 staff took all morning to get to this stage. I assume this is why it is done in advance, although I suppose they could have stopped after checking the PVSs.
The folded ballot papers were opened out, face down – though as has been said it is apparently sometimes possible to catch a glimpse (I was only checking signatures) – and replaced in their elastic bands to maintain the bundle size. They were stored in ballot boxes until the count.
At my council, they certainly did not replace the ballots in envelope A and reseal it. Envelope A is needed to preserve the secrecy of the ballot; if the ballot paper was just loose inside an envelope also containing the PVS as a separate sheet, it would be almost inevitable that someone, at some stage, would see how the person had voted.
@AuldA
Sorry, I think I meant non-NAT – NAT disabled. It’s one static I use, the one of the 8 automatically assigned.
@Heed
Yes it seems a bit strange they actually open the inside envlope (A). Maybe I rememberd it wrong.
Here’s one about the process:
link to electionsscotland.info
Another:
link to electoralcommission.org.uk
But a more detailed one somewhere I found before – it’s worth searchg for as it’s the instructions for the actual openers or whatever they’re called.
@heedtracker
Their are some misconceptions here about the postal vote opening. It has been spelled out many times before but obviously has not got through to all.
I was at the postal vote opening along with other representatives of Wings, there were six reps present, two from Wings, one from Yes Scotland, one from SNP and two from the other lot.
Every single vote is scanned and scrutinized automatically for comparison with the original application, maybe 1% of those are deferred for adjudication by humans. This is just that slip that accompanies the vote and must contain your DOB and signature. This is then compared with the original application for a postal vote, the system is robust and nothing can happen here.
Hear me out, every single vote is checked. Envelope A at this time which contains the actual vote is still sealed.
When this process is complete envelope A is opened in full view of those attending to witness the process. The votes removed from the envelope and placed FACE DOWN on the table. When you attend the vote you sign a declaration that you will not reveal anything you INADVERTENTLY may see with regards to votes. You are also warned that breach of this rule may result in imprisonment or a fine.
It is now when envelope A is opened that OCCASIONALLY a witness may see where a vote has been cast. From what I witnessed it might have been possible to see maybe 1 in 20 or even less at only one table and there were over 30 tables.
This is where the term “sampling” comes in. Maybe not totally worthless but I for one wouldn’t bother my arse.
The votes themselves are NOT put back in the envelope but into ballot boxes and sealed until delivery to the main counting office for counting on the night.
I think enough people have tried their hardest to explain this process. This is my last word on this subject.
@Oneironaut:
I agree on the principle. But I really dislike the FSF and especially Richard Stallman, as well as the GPL licence. Forcing people that use your code to publish theirs under the same legal status is nothing but extortion. I much prefer the BSD-style license, and the *BSD OS (e.g. Free- or NetBSD, the latter of which I used for years). Linux has, by the way, made a good job of clenching the limelight while the other free Unices remain almost unknown.
As for the “layman”, Apple OS X is really a great choice. The computers Apple sells are smashing and not so expensive, the OS is BSD based and probably as robust as Linux, and this platform is a joy to develop on (API is great) and use. Really, I switched to MacOS six years ago, I never regretted it a single second.
@Bugger(the Panda)
Be gentle and understanding with us or we might vote No, again?
That last bit wasn’t aimed at anyone on here.
As for the people it was aimed at, I don’t do gentle and understanding with them!
@Morag
I agree that it is a sham “free press” which fools a lot of people who have no access to any alternative. But the journalists are just the inky fingered messengers. The real culprits are the corporation heads, financiers and rich toffs who manipulate the politicians (and in many cases are the politicians on the Tory front bench). Seasoned liars and manipulators run the country. As Ian Hamilton said “Scotland has fallen among thieves”.
Democracy requires a free press and the media failed. The Government had a duty to protect the interests of the people and failed. The UK deserves its failed state status.
@ SquareHaggis at 3.26
There is no “footage” from the Women for Independence conference in Perth for the following reason:
A decision was taken not to livestream the event, not to film it, and not to allow broadcast media inside the hall in case it inhibited women from participation. ….
However, a print journalist from the Sunday Herald was in attendance, and her report was published today.
link to archive.today
Ex pat inside out – the word your using as longing is hiraeth. My old boss used it with me when I left Newport (after 4yrs) to come back to Scotland.
Can I say on all the debate about postal votes, why are we even having this discussion. I think ISO9001 is the current reference number on quality assurance. Can somebody please point me in the direction of the manual on voting, whether Local, General or referendum. It should all be down in black and white. All counting officers should be working with exactly the same paper work and following the same procedures, if not, the system is not fit for purpose.
Faltdubh at 12.38
Really? Don’t be daft. The best they can do for a draft bill for any devo change is three years and once that goes to the House of Lords it could be five or six years after three readings(assuming the House of Commons agrees anything in the first place).
We must not get bogged down in the morass that is devo max/plus or federal.
We should ramp up the call for independence now and we’ll get bits and pieces ceded to us. We wont even get those bits and pieces if we lend any credence to Lord Smith’s diversion – and there is no appetite for devo whatever anymore anyway. That has been left behind. Very shortly 100,000 Scots will have signed up to parties for independence -not some inconsequential shuffling about with the cards we already have.
The “Vow” does not make any mention at all of all powers except
defence and foreign affairs being devolved.
And there is no chance of any devo deal giving us oil and gas revenues or cancelling Trident
North Lanarkshire Council Postal Vote Opening
First all PV’s received that day were counted after being batched into 20’s and being boxed into 200’s then the total number received announced to us, the agents.
Then the batches of 20 were given to a PV opener (typically three tables with eight to a table) who opened both envelopes checking PVS for a signature and a DoB and matching serial numbers.
Ones failing that test, and there were many without a signature on the PVS were put into a query bin as did PVS’s missing the A envelope and or the vote. Ones passing the test a completed PVS and the matching vote were batched into PVS’s and votes (held together with a rubber band {for later scanning of the PVS})
There were some rather serious issues and one has been reported to Police Scotland and I have given a witness statement of what we observed.
Being the first time I have witnessed the whole process, Postal Vote Opening and Scanning, Voting at the Polling Station and at the Count and being a Senior Project Manager and QA specialist I was fairly horrified by the whole process in many ways (not that I will go into them here) – but we will be producing a report for the Electoral Commission and the Chief Counting Officer and the Referendum Office to consider.
One thing I will say, is that we are in the 21st Century not that you would know from the whole referendum process. What I experienced and observed was that this process was grossly inefficient,slow, and reliant on the use of masses amount of manpower. Room for improvement in so many ways and I really have my doubts if it was fit for purpose in the 21st Century.
Hopefully our report will have some positive impact.
Was at a Argyll and Bute wide event at Lochgilphead today with about 300 others of all parties and none.
Total commitment to independence and the removal of all unionist MPs next year.
Not a thought about devo max.
The positive and progressive YES campaign actually won the election because as the lies come home to roost the vision of a new and better Scotland that YES campaigned on has survived and grows in strength.
And the lies have killed the Labour Party
Devo mad max – Dave McEwan Hill for you honey, any biscuits yet?
link to youtube.com
IndyRef Chicken Farm : Annual Head Count. Sept 18 2014
Supervisors and Counters this year will be:-
1. The Foxes (red bibs)
2. The Weasles (blue bibs)
3. The Swans (yellow bibs)
4. The Stoats (orange bibs)
Rules and Guidelines for counters and supervisors:-
Blah, blah, blah
Blah, blah, blah
Blah, blah, blah…
Signed: Sadie Pitmaisley MBE.
@Morag
If the BBC in particular had done its job, we’d be independent now.
That just it though, they did do their job. There was a No vote. The BBC are part of the British establishment, they had no intention of holding both sides to account because they wanted No to win. Hence, they ignored all the lying and drivel from the No side. Darling has been pocketing private health care money. Why do you think the BBC never reported on this? They knew fine well that most of the stuff from the No campaign was nonsense. Why do you think they referred to the Orange Order march in Edinburgh as the “pro-Union rally”, rather than a mass bigot fest, days before the vote? Why did they never properly examine the vow, or Gordon Brown’s actions?
OK, that’s semantics. I agree with you and you know what I mean!
“Expat-turned inside-out”,
welcome hame, the miles do not count if yer heart is still here.
Hi guys
I’m new here I’ve already tried to post a first comment but it didn’t get through but it may be something I’m doing wrong or maybe something to do with Stu being on holiday I don’t know, but I’ll leave this comment as it is for now to see if it get through brfore I post things i really want to say
Bateman now to edit Newsnet
What Newman to edit Batenet?
Paula Rose
You just reminded me of a canvas I did in Paisley many years ago.
I got enticed into a lovely young lady’s house. She sat me down,got me a cup of tea and sat on the arm of the chair. “Would you like anything else” she whispered. “You haven’t got a wee tea biscuit” I suggested. I wish.
However that was some Satisfaction you just hit us with. They tell us it’s all over now but I’d be a fool to cry. Little by little we’ll get our satisfaction. This wont be the last time. Have you seen your mother, baby? She’ll tell you you can’t always get what you want. But we’ll not fade away.
Just remembered I must put some Rolling Stones onto my Rock and Roll show on Argyll Independent Radio next Friday night
crazycat, yesindyref2, thanks very much for the info. To be honest I’m a bit shocked at how postal vote sampling or rather the process of the poll counting office worked.
I assumed that the postal vote in A was taken out of envelope B when it arrived at counting offices, the paper with signature and DOB,removed and checked and envelope A went into a ballot box to be opened on the 18th Sept after 10pm.
Those regs say
8.8 A key step in assuring the integrity of the electoral process is the verification of Absent Vote Identifiers (AVIs) on postal votes.
But it looks like its all about time and avoiding “bottlenecks”
8.9 Experience indicates that a substantial number of postal votes are received on the day of poll, either at polling stations or from the Royal Mail. The identity of these voters has to be verified before their ballots can be passed to the count itself. This process needs to be resourced, can take a significant time and potentially delay the count.
8.10 Postal votes received prior to the day of poll will have already been verified and put into sealed ballot boxes ready for the count. Processing any postal votes received on the day of poll however can be a bottleneck preventing the production of results and indeed placed pressure on the count processes for some Returning Officers in the May 2011 polls
8.12 COs will be encouraged to put in place a range of measures to minimise the AVI checking that needs to be undertaken at the count. These may include regular pickups of any postal votes from polling places throughout polling day and a targeted communications campaign to encourage early return of postal packs.
So it looks like the opening of sealed postal vote envelope A is the entirely the decision of the CO’s on the polling day but they have also legitimately opened every single postal vote, as they received them or at least every few days, all to save time from 10pm 18th Sept and all of it aimed at avoiding bottlenecks on polling day.
Personally, I am extremely not happy with any of that. It look like all of the regulation is aimed at polling day postal counting efficiency and NOT from the moment the first postal votes are returned weeks before polling day.
8.12 COs will be encouraged to put in place a range of measures to minimise the AVI checking that needs to be undertaken at the count. These may include regular
pickups of any postal votes from polling places throughout polling day and a targeted communications campaign to encourage early return of postal packs.
The only instruction for CO’s is that the postal votes “are received prior to the day of poll will have already been verified”. Every other Count Process instruction is specific to postal vote processing on polling day.
And the verification is a deeply flawed process whereby the observers on either side can conduct a continual exit poll, when they were banned on 18th, that is then reported back to bettertogether in particular.
So in summary Counting Officers took the decision on themselves to open and examine the contents of 800 thousand postal vote envelope A’s, yes face down, where they were they counted by observers who told people like Ruth Davidson how it was all going.
Then they oome out with THE VOW a day before the polling day. And the only way we now know about all of this postal vote sampling process, which is not sampling its counting, is because Ruth Davidson blurted it out loud on live TV!
Not happy.
That’s great news from Lochgilphead
Between us, Paula Rose and I have identified the precise problem with the vanishing posts – at least some of them, possibly most.
It’s the letter-string n-f-l (upper or lower case)
This occurs in inf-luence, corn-flake and also conf-luence, and maybe more. Any post with any of these words in it is doomed. Or even just with the letter string n-f-l.
Paula also pointed out that these letters are the initials of the National Football League. N.F.L. Enquiries are underway to ascertain if Stuart might have set these initials as a banned word to deal with some contentious football-related posts.
So it turns out that Milibands keynote speech in Manchester to rescue the NHS with 2.5 billion a year has just been confirmed by Labour that NONE of the 2.5bn would be raised in the first year of a Labour ‘win’. Bodes well for any other ‘vows’ Labour may have made recently, eh?
Paula – Jaffa Cakes.
Don’t condone violence but this seems apt.
link to youtube.com
Regarding biscuits again:
Yes voters: Arran Oatcakes; Scottish, nurturing, nourishing and good for your well being.
No voters: Farley’s Rusks: Easily digestable mush for infantile bodies and minds.
Stephen.
Can I just throw this out there.
I want whoever stands as SNP candidate to win in every seat. £500 is not a lot of dough to raise for deposit. Perhaps we could target one prominent seat – a big scalp?
Is there any mileage in running a candidate alongside the Yes/SNP candidate on a Wings platform with the explicit mission to gain zero votes but purely to destroy? And support the Yes candidate whoever he or she may be?
It wouldn’t take too much to put together a crowd funded dossier to leaflet every home in one constituency with a nice glossy election pamphlet highlighting voting record, allowances and disdain for the electorate, dereliction of duty during the referendum campaign.
Just a wee thought… or is that too negative?
@
Oneironaut
I should have put an ironical face at the end on my post.
@cazm –
Sorry mister, but I have failed. I didn’t watch the Lib Dem conference.
I did, however, hear on RS ‘News’ that Alistair Carmichael used his speech to savage David Cameron, and demanded that Nicola Sturgeon rule-out the possibility of another referendum.
Sounds terrifying, and heaven only knows what Danny Alexander came out with. Oh, and Willie Rennie said something too…
Mealer honey – could you elucidate?
@Morag –
Looks like you’re right.
Just tried ‘in-flux’, ‘in-flatable’ and ‘un-flappable’, without hyphens, in separate comments, and none made it through.
Strange.
Sorry mister, but I have failed. I didn’t watch the Lib Dem conference.
I’m finding it hard to blame you. Just the thought of listening to Rennie’s intellectual white noise fills me with inertia…I’m sure there would be gutters needing cleaned or something equally important that would take precedent.
OT, but has anyone seen this? Hope the Fifers don’t beleive the hype link to dunfermlinepress.com
Interesting news about Derek Bateman and NNS. If he becomes editor there that is a coup for them, given his experience.
@Morag
Saw someone saying earlier that Nicola Sturgeon, in a tweet, says there are over 1000 SNP members in her constituency. How many SNP members are there roughly in your branch?
I’ve added a few more words on off-topic that have n f l also made some up none got through – now CAN WE GET BACK TO BISCUITS!
Handandshrimp
I caught 15 mins yesterday. There’s 15 minutes of my life I’ll no be getting back.
Camera stayed on the podium the whole time. Not one crowd shot. Says it all really.
Salmond: here’s my personal plan for final six weeks in power
@muttley79 says:
Newsnet Scotland: Plans for the future
Salmond: here’s my personal plan for final six weeks in power
@muttley79 says:
Newsnet Scotland: Plans for the future
@Paula Rose:
Did you ever tried the ‘biscuits roses’. There are baked in Reims and meant to be dunked into champaign before being eaten.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Muttley, I believe our previous membership was around 70-80 or something like that. I don’t know what it is now because our last branch meeting was only 5 days after the referendum, before any paperwork had come through from HQ.
Oh sweetie AuldA – dunking in champagne, shiver in delight!
ISIS executioner identified??
link to inquisitr.com