The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

Taking it well

Posted on December 04, 2020 by

As well as the SNP NEC elections, the weekend saw the election of the first committee of a new grassroots independence organisation which is unfortunately and hopefully temporarily going by the stupendously terrible working name of “Yes Alba”.

15 people were elected to its ruling body by the votes of hundreds of delegates, with the top-ranked picks including SNP MP Angus MacNeil and former SNP MP George Kerevan. The majority of the successful candidates (eight) were female, even though there were no quotas or women-only shortlists imposed, and a wide range of ages was represented from young activists to former UK ambassador Craig Murray.

(We have no idea about any of their sexualities or gender identities, and also no interest in knowing, because those things have not the slightest bearing on their ability to fight for independence and are frankly none of our damn business.)

But that wasn’t good enough for Team Woke.

On a day when Joanna Cherry had a grown-up, reasoned and constructive column in The National calling for unity in the pursuit of independence, the outpouring of snide, sour sneering from a faction still raging with bitterness about being routed on the SNP NEC is instead curdling Twitter even as we speak.

And embarrassingly, not a single one of them has actually bothered to check even the most basic facts.

The mercifully-departing SNP National Secretary was excited to toss in some barbs casting baseless and spiteful aspersions on a bunch of tireless grassroots activists.

As were some recently-failed wannabe SNP candidates.

Naturally Pension Pete had plenty snark to spare.

And of course the transcult were furious that something wasn’t all about them.

But mostly it was wokebearded men throwing tantrums after a bunch of women had been elected to something entirely on their own merits without any male help.

Our favourites, though, were the ones openly admitting that they were commenting out of complete and total ignorance.

(How will we ever manage without the talents of people who don’t even have the basic wit to get around a paywall in order to just possibly have the slightest clue what they’re talking about before they shoot their idiot mouths off?)

The SNP, Yes Alba (please dear God call it something else) and the Yes movement as a whole will be vastly better off, and infinitely more harmonious, the day every last one of these pious, brainless, divisive little twerps goes and finds something else to do with their time, or ideally just falls down a mineshaft.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 04 12 20 17:57

    Taking it well | speymouth

228 to “Taking it well”

  1. Brotyboy says:

    Only got 1 more block out of that. Shame.

  2. Aldo_macb says:

    It’s only a terrible name if you’ve got the Caledonian cringe of hating Gaelic.

  3. Lollysmum says:

    We love them too. Soor plums to a T. So sad.

  4. aulbea1 says:

    Well said & written, Stu. Full agreement – bang on.

  5. red sunset says:

    I know personally a small handful of those elected. And EVERY SINGLE one of those is 100% dedicated to Independence. We’ve got a group of genuinely tireless activists. I truly have very positive vibes about this project.
    And what’s more – I don’t think any of them are in it for the money.

  6. prj says:

    The interests around “self” distracted around the real cause which is independence.

  7. James Kydd-Corr says:

    Got a Twitter ban for apparently being mean to a transperson. Probably just as well really; that Dylan character makes me want to Hulk Smash

  8. Hamish Kirk says:

    I was impressed by the results, but then I am just another old white male.

  9. Ian McLean says:

    I suppose Wokeus Dei are not satisfied with the gender balance because there are no real women on board … the kind who have to tell everyone their pronouns and have beards.

  10. Hatuey says:

    I agree the name is quite underwhelming. But this in the great scheme of things could be monumental. I hope they get everyone involved and stick to the remit.

  11. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “It’s only a terrible name if you’ve got the Caledonian cringe of hating Gaelic.”

    No, it’s just a flat-out terrible fucking name. And one that someone else is already using.

  12. Taranaich says:

    Aldo, the issue is that Yes Alba already exists, as a primarily Gaelic Language campaign group.

    I’m struggling to remember any new Yes organisation being received with even a fraction of the venom & scorn being displayed by these individuals. I don’t think even Scotia Future got this treatment.

  13. Neil Mackenzie says:

    Yes Alba is, indeed, a pretty terrible name but Wings Over Scotland has done alright!

  14. Meg says:

    What would be the SNP equivalent of a Labour champagne socialist? whatever it is that’s Pension Pete, seems to absolutely gall him that grassroots have any involvement other than doing legwork to get him elected to his cushy job

  15. Taranaich says:

    (Obviously replace that “Caesar!” with the Gaelic name for Scotland – which, incidentally, ultimately derives from Old Irish, and so is not the sole domain of Scottish Gaelic)

  16. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I’m struggling to remember any new Yes organisation being received with even a fraction of the venom & scorn being displayed by these individuals. I don’t think even Scotia Future got this treatment.”

    The hilarious thing is that all this ire is based on the three people named first in the National piece, who were named first not because they’re at the top of some organisational hierarchy but because they’re the three who got the most votes. But the woke hate anything and anyone popular, because it reminds them of what they’re not.

  17. Ian Brotherhood says:

    I honestly don’t understand why so many people appear to despise Craig Murray. He even gets it on his own blog. Really nasty stuff.

    WTF did the guy ever do to deserve such bile?

  18. Stuart MacKay says:

    I’m so naive. I thought prejudice based on the colour of a person’s skins was, was, what’s that word again, …?

    Well not much diversity of thought on display in that set of tantrums. The whole diversity thing is really about breaking out of one-dimensional thinking so when you design new medicines you actually think about testing it on all the different groups that could make use of that – that was an uphill struggle that took a long time to hammer home. Same with simple stuff like deciding the number of cubicles in bathrooms. Otherwise you end up with the crappy stuff we have today.

    Unfortunately the wokoharams don’t seem to take their own advice to heart. That’s an impressive collection of white, males faces up there. All looking and sounding the same.

  19. Sandra says:

    Small detail. George Kerevan is a former MP, not MSP.

  20. MadCatWumman says:

    Is just showing these twerps up to be the bandwagon jumping, not at all interested in independence, self promoting leeches that they are.
    Anyone who could say they weren’t going back to Yes ….because they don’t like some folk who vote or represent a massive grassroots movement……is quite frankly just an utter pile of attention seeking, foot stamping toddlerism.

    Time the adults stepped in and took these kids internet access away. A bunch of self validating, gobshitey, attention seeking inadequates trying to ‘be’ someone. How the heck did Yes become so infected with this poison.

    None of them are interested in Scotland. Or in Independence.

  21. Albert Herring says:

    What do want to call it then? Yes Caesar!?

  22. Doug says:

    Aye Aye

  23. Bob Mack says:

    They are nothing but a pit of vipers with a communal headache.

    Tetchy,irritable, and liable to strike out at anything .

  24. Tannadice Boy says:

    It’s Pete Wishart’s comments that disappoint me the most. A supposedly elder statesman of the SNP cause. A candidate for the Speaker of the House of Commons. The Independence movement is in safe hands with him at Westminster.

  25. Frank says:

    It’s quite an accolade to be disposed by some people. But he did get most votes here and also about a quarter of the votes cast for president of NEC. So somebody likes him.

  26. Kenny says:

    Another good day – but not for some!

    And, as the 2 Ronnie’s used to say;
    “So it’s goodnight from me”..
    “..and it’s goodnight from him/hir/he”. Ha!

  27. Indy Unicorn says:

    Why all the excitement about the name? It’s a working title until the committee’s in place and everything is decided and formalised. Pick wur battles folks

  28. Ian McCubbin says:

    Well said Stu and glad normal folk interested in only Independence have come through in SNP committees and NEC.
    Maybe this will get the job done now.

  29. Frank says:

    Well, not quite ‘most’. But well enough.

  30. Iain More says:

    So who exactly are these anti Scottish bigots? I can just feel the hate for being a middle aged White Scottish guy who believes in Scots Indy.

    Meanwhile back in the real world I have been watching the “Handling of Harassment Complaints Inquiry” Crikey is it turgid brutal TV. I do have several questions about it though.

    Is it me or is Alex Cole Hamilton a poisonous hobbit who spends all of his time going after AS?

    Is Alasdair Allan wasting his time turning up at all?

    Is Linda Fabiani also a waste of oxygen for not reeling in Alex Cole Hamilton?

    Does Jackie Bailie scent blood in the water or is it just me?

    There is a lot of folk it seems hiding behind Contempt of Court defenses.

  31. Helen Yates says:

    It’s rather fun watching these sad gits having a meltdown to be honest.

  32. Brian says:

    So is just me that notices all the trans supporters (the mad ones not the ones who just go Ok and move on with their lives) always seem to be name calling and then get upset if you do the same?

  33. Fiona Laing says:

    Aldo_macb says:
    4 December, 2020 at 5:50 pm
    It’s only a terrible name if you’ve got the Caledonian cringe of hating Gaelic.

    Your use of the word Caledonia has prompted the thought the new group could be called Caledonia Rising, but there seems to be a need that the word Yes should be there for some reason. Personally I think the Scottish electorate are clever enough not to need the word Yes in a group name in order for them to understand it is campaigning for independence.

  34. Cath says:

    It’s a little ironic seeing lots of Middle aged white men whinging about middle aged white men. Or are people like Pete Wishart identifying as something else these days?

  35. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “WTF did the guy ever do to deserve such bile?”

    He publicly highlighted UK and US involvement in extraordinary rendition and and acceptance of evidence obtained through the use of torture (boiling a suspect alive I believe)!

    He broke Civil Service Protocol by saying “No, not in my name” and they have never forgiven him

    That’s what he did @Ian Brotherhood says at 6:16 pm

    I’m pretty sure knowing what he knows now and everything he has endured since (false sexual smear etc.) as a result Craig would do it all again tomorrow.

    He also turned down 3 British Empire Awards (LVO, OBE & CVO) for his work as an Ambassador and told the Queen to her face it was because he believed in Scottish Independence.

    He is also a friend of, and advocate against the illegal detention and trial of Julian Assange

    That is the kind of person I want in Scotland’s corner fighting for Independence.

    Sad he didn’t get elected as SNP President.

    Delighted he got elected to the board of Yes Al6a.

  36. Astonished says:

    Sadly believable. They must go. I assume there are under a hundred of them. Expel them all.

    And then count how many of their handmaidens remain.

    What really, really irks me about these XY chromosome possessing trans women is that in every sane person’s eyes – they are already outstanding fannies.

  37. robertknight says:

    A positive blizzard of ‘Snowflakes’ on display there.

    With the exception of Weak Pishart that is. I wouldn’t insult ‘Snowflakes’ by lumping that particular chocolate fireguard in with them.

  38. Bob Mack says:

    Interesting that Wisharts name is now an anagram for these trans squatters in the SNP. Wraiths ___ghost like image of someone before their death.

  39. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Small detail. George Kerevan is a former MP, not MSP.”

    Well, that’ll teach ME to copy from a picture caption in The National.

  40. Tannadice Boy says:

    Ok on the name front. Let’s go back to Roman times. ‘Forward Caledonia’. Because it’s not just about Independence it’s what we do with it that matters. I am fed up with people that say we should be like New Zealand or Norway or Iceland or… Anybody but ourselves. Scotland has the wit to forge their own future. I am in the centre so I will be punting for entrepreneurs to make the wealth to support first class public services. The name of a book is always written at the end.

  41. Beaker says:

    I think some people need an explanation of the word “democracy”. After all, that is how the previous post-holders got the jobs they have now lost to others.

  42. Flower of Scotland says:

    The AUOB Conference was a great success and used the same hopin app as the SNP Conference except it really worked fantastically well with the AUOB Conference. Chat was on. SNP Conference chat was off in case they had too many people laughing at their inadequacy.

    The SNP have been going backwards since 2015. People like Rosa want so much attention they should be on a “This is me” site. Sick of it!

    I thought the AUOB Conference was exciting and watched the whole thing. It was even FREE!

  43. lumilumi says:

    The tweet I found most amusing was Fraser Wilson bemoaning “getting validation from their own inner circles and echo chambers”.

    Projecting, much? 😀

  44. On a dark cold winters night the skweems of the snowflake as they slowly melt into the dirty puddle of inconsequentiality fairly warms me up.

  45. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Jockanese Wind Talker (6.38) –

    Quite a CV, isn’t it?

    And you’re absolutely right – he would be a credit to any truly independent parliament.

  46. John H. says:

    It looks as if the Greens are going to get some new members soon.

  47. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Ok on the name front. Let’s go back to Roman times. ‘Forward Caledonia’.”

    If you’re naming the country, anything but “Scotland” just makes you sound like a wanker to normal folk. Them’s the breaks. I don’t make the rules, I’m just the messenger.

  48. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    It was good to see Gillian Mair – “Ruglonian” – elected.

    For those who don’t know the background…

    Ronnie Anderson was the engine that drove the “Friends of WOS” stall at rallies and marches from 2013 until a couple of years ago.

    For personal reasons, Ronnie decided he should sit at the back of the YES bus and, gradually, handed over the reigns to Gillian to carry on the tradition of a WOS presence at rallies. Dunfermline 2018 (?) was a trial. I think every gazebo took off in the wind.

    Onnyhoo, Gillian’s pro-indy credentials can’t be dismissed. These cretins quoted in the tweets above have, obviously, know ‘hands-on’ knowledge of the pro-indy grassroots movement.

    Plus I’ll salute Angus MacNeil for pinning his pro-indy colours to his shield, despite our party’s lethargy in respect of the struggle for Scottish independence – also Craig Murray, whom I’ve blethered with often. His diplomatic background is an asset that shouldn’t be discounted.

    These tweets, to me, display a modicum of pure jealousy.

  49. A Person says:

    I am amused by all the white men who had these positions of influence but now that different white men have the jobs suddenly white men are the problem. Hmmm

  50. Tannadice Boy says:

    @Rev Stuart Campbell
    Ah well I better go the bedroom

  51. Black Joan says:

    Avoiding the word YES might be wise.

    There’s the baggage from the insipid 2014 official Yes campaign.

    And the devious Yoons, having felt disadvantaged by having to campaign for a negative last time, might manipulate things so that any future referendum question asks: should Scotland stay in our glorious union, thus making YES the answer they seek and requiring the independence cause to be a campaign for a negative.

    Just one more reason to avoid the whole Section 30, asking the Spaffer for permission route.

  52. MorvenM says:

    “Old cis cishet white men”? As opposed to what? Old trans cishet white men? 50 more shades of wokeshite.

    I think Yes Scotland was already taken, so Yes A L B A was the best they could come up with. Better than Yes Caesar anyway :-).

  53. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “And you’re absolutely right – he would be a credit to any truly independent parliament.”

    The list of Craig’s achievements compared to those of any of these wee plooks is like putting Anthony Joshua up against a budgie.

  54. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I think Yes Scotland was already taken, so Yes A L B A was the best they could come up with.”

    Except that’s already taken as well. I vote for Yes Now, which works on about half a dozen different levels.

  55. A Person says:


    Craig Murray is one of those people who gets the “oh you can’t possibly agree with CRAIG MURRAY”’ treatment, and when you ask why not, people have no response. It’s ludicrous. They’ve been told he’s beyond some kind of pale and that’s good enough for them.

  56. Bob Costello says:

    I somehow believe that the greens are not about to do too well in the list vote this time around, especially if they are seen as a refuge for this lot of halfwits

  57. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    “have, obviously, know ‘hands-on’ knowledge”


    “have, obviously, NO ‘hands-on’ knowledge”


  58. Ian Brotherhood says:

    What about Yes Right Fuckin Now Ya Bams

  59. Graeme says:

    I’m actually enjoying their petty infantile bitterness, bring it on, it just make the NEC election results all the sweeter

  60. Mac says:

    Wow they really hate white people and men. Very clear.

    Amazing to see this unadulterated 1970’s level full bore racism and sexism redirected by the woke morons without a hint of self awareness.

  61. Robert graham says:

    Very tempted to return fire ,
    but like most children the thing they all can’t get their heads round is being ignored , just watch and let the tantrums play out me ,me , me they soon get tired want to break stuff for attention Carry on fill yer boots, the remind them everything they destroy will never be replaced and stick to it , dismiss all the whining and pleading please please please , sorry your mess you fix it , it might seem harsh but most people learn by example.
    As for the old white men aye ok you mean the ones who keep the country running and functioning while these freaks play with themselves , the old white guys who get up at the crack of dawn and get home exhausted to see their children fast asleep 5-6-7 days a week for years on end ,while life passed them by because they are to busy earning money and paying taxes so these freaks can keep themselves amused,
    Gone is any sympathy any kind of respect , Someone’s hurt your feelings oh dear I don’t give a duck I don’t care if the legislation is rolled back to the 1950s when a lot of strange behaviour attracted police attention, after seeing how this has played out over the years and the results of liberal thinking maybe it’s time to call a halt on this failed experiment and reassess the situation

  62. Lindy says:

    The irony is that the cheer leaders for these twerps are three middle aged white men. Oddly they don’t have a problem with that, even though those particular middle aged white men make a habit of bullying a female MP. These people are absolute hypocrites, and they are showing themselves up to be the divisive ones.

  63. Neil in Glasgow says:

    Considering equality and diversity is absolutely a necessity when developing strategy and all that other forward thinking stuff. But when the issue at hand is to achieve a definitive outcome in my opinion it really doesn’t matter. If ever there was a time when it was best person for the job its now. And when the majority elected were women, what does that tell you about the mindset of the complainers? Exactly… This is why narrow minded people, in general, are successful and those who aren’t, well aren’t. For the record I’m not narrow minded and not successful in the sense that I’m going to be a mover and shaker in getting us independence but I’m sensible enough to believe who is more than anyone else. That’ll do me. And thats why I read Wings 🙂

  64. Neil Munro says:

    Aye Scotland ?

  65. Graeme says:

    “As for the old white men aye ok you mean the ones who keep the country running and functioning while these freaks play with themselves , the old white guys who get up at the crack of dawn and get home exhausted to see their children fast asleep 5-6-7 days a week for years on end ,while life passed them by because they are to busy earning money and paying taxes so these freaks can keep themselves amused,”

    I can relate to every word of that Robert, beautifully worded thank you

  66. Alf Baird says:

    Tannadice Boy

    Correct, Scotland’s folk are more than capable of forging our own distinct path, an findin oor ain wey tae, unhindered.

    The privileged middle class and wokerati etc. living in their own confused realities have never understood that working class Scots represent one of the biggest and most oppressed minority ethnic groups in the UK. Oppression is the reason why the Scots speaking working class form the mass of the independence movement and seek independence. They cannot any longer afford to be represented by a self-interested privileged middle class who will never culturally comprehend what independence really means and will sell us out as we see with the SNP leadership reaching its accommodation with colonialism.

    What we are witnessing now is “Manichaeism in which governed colonial society is preserved intact during the period of decolonization” (Fanon 1967).

  67. Saffron Robe says:

    “…or ideally just falls down a mineshaft.”

    I think you’re being too polite there Stuart!

  68. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Have just posted the following to The Dangerfield Files ongoing btl thread but thought I should ask here as well…

    Are the committee members allowed to ask about contacts between witnesses since the inquiry began?

    The reason I ask is that they have been so uniformly forgetful and/or unhelpful when it comes to very specific questions e.g. the frequency and status of meetings (‘those ones were just casual’, ‘those weren’t ‘real’ meetings, they were just ‘information-swapping sessions’, the lack of minutes etc) and presence of specific characters in specific rooms at very specific times. It’s as if they’ve been coached. And, of course, they all deliver the same boilerplate introduction which has clearly been written by a legal bod.

    If they’ve been coached and/or had contact with each other since the inquiry started, is the committee entitled to know?

  69. Hatuey says:

    My perception of guys with beards has been radically and negatively changed in the last few months…No offence to any non-LGBT++hfhdgejdbcndd men who happen to have beards.

    I’m interested in what this new organisation hopes to achieve. I’d love to see them talk about putting candidates into elections or throwing support behind one of these new parties.

    Anything that pisses the SNP leadership off is probably good for the independence movement.

    And I hope Tommy Sheridan is involved. He’s the best rabble rouser there is and we definitely need to rouse the rabble.

    Anyone got a link and more info about them or anything?

  70. Tannadice Boy says:

    @Alf Baird
    I not sure I can comment. Stu’s hammers are wavering over me. You don’t get more working class than me. Born into a large family with no resources the youngsters today don’t know the meaning of hardship. But I believe in the power of social mobility. I have read Fanon I favour democratic means. Violence has no place in a new Scotland/Alba/Caledonia/ whatever!

  71. Stuart MacKay says:

    I see “Yes Alba” and I see beards. Sorry.

    “Yes Now” has a decent ring to it, though it might be too close to “Yes No”. “Yes! Now!” has a commanding ring to it. Also there’s lots of word play that might prove useful like “Now IS the time!”, “Now is the time for Yes!”, etc. etc.

    “Forward Scotland” – slightly militaristic and there’s the football angle. Not sure if there’s some extreme right group in Hungary with a similar theme though. “Forza Italia” clearly is problematic.

    I think the key is to stake out as much optimistic territory as possible but keep it simple. The single seed that needs planted is “Yes” everything else is just padding.

    Well the night is young and there’s a few beers in the fridge. The possibilities are endless…

  72. @ Black Joan at 6.56pm and Rev Stuart Campbell at 6.58pm: See my user-pic!

  73. Hatuey says:

    Ian, my understanding is that a lot of them are friends and have been for years. Note the general use of first name terms. I’m pretty sure a lot of them sign off emails with kisses too XXX. And they seem to text and WhatsApp each other a lot.

    I suspect there’s a lot of planning though. On Tuesday there was a lot of emphasis on how “overwhelmed” and traumatised they were by complainer A’s account, for example. It felt highly choreographed. That particular theme served a few purposes.

  74. Tannadice Boy says:

    @Stuart McKay
    Last time I comment because I am on the edge here. But think of the most important song you have heard in the last 20 years. From an emotional viewpoint. Was it I shall walk ten thousand miles..or ‘Caledonia’. I will get ma bonnet. Got to put the Christmas tree up. A welcomed interlude.

  75. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Hatuey –

    It feels sometimes like they’re treating it all as some big mad game, as if they really believe they’re living in some Scottish version of Sex and the City.

    At some point – if it hasn’t already happened – they’re each going to have to face the fact that they conspired to put an innocent man in jail for the rest of his life.

    It’s no game right enough.

  76. iain mhor says:

    They can call it ‘Yes Jobby’ if they like, if they deliver I won’t give a shit – I’ll happily sport a ‘Jobby’ t-shirt.

    Smacks of internal fighting over the band’s name and not the material.
    If anyone cares to ponder some classic bands, superb albums and songs, then consider the ridiculous names… where to start? Jeez – It’s damn near mandatory! 😀

  77. Republicofscotland says:

    I don’t particularly care about the name of the new group, I’m far more interested in what they do to help bring us closer to indy the names a minor detail.

    As for the woke brigade, it sounds awfully like sour grapes on their behalf.

  78. Stuart MacKay says:

    Tannadice Boy

    That’s not even a contest. Pete Wishart’s legacy is already dead and buried – sorry to say, but Craig and Charlie will live forever.

  79. Mac says:

    The SNP are definitely going for delay, delay, delay until the next election no matter what.

    It is a pretty extraordinary tactic and one that reveals their desperation but also the stakes. It tells us how important the next election is. This election is for the heart and soul of the SNP (blah blah) but really it is for the future of the independence movement.

    If you want to save them both, wipe the SNP out at the next vote. The real independence movement (and SNP) will reform almost instantly (like a liquid terminator). These woke arseholes will not. They are not a creation of the independence movement, they never were, they were only ever empowered by Team Nicola.

    FFS now is our last chance. If they succeed and win the next election… we are fucked. Why do you think they are pulling out every bullshit tactic to win it.

    If we cant reign in Murrell and Sturgeon then the game is bogey.

    So many good SNP folk are asleep at the wheel.

  80. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @iain mhor (7.51) –

    ‘Yes Jobby’ definitely has a ring to it.

  81. Meg says:

    Craig Murray is pro trans so you would think they would be happy

  82. tridentitycrisis says:

    Thank God/Imhotep/the Tooth Fairy for the NEC results! Maybe now we can all pull in the same direction leaving those tiresome, ill-informed, holier-than-thou squealers behind. I look forward to Stuart resuming normal service and filleting the Unionists in the delightful manner that has always given us the most pleasure. Jacob Greased-Hogg is just waiting to be impaled.

  83. Neil in Glasgow says:

    Stuart @7.59

    I think Caledonia was by Frankie miller, but runrig did have a song that went a-a-a-alba! I mind my mum playing it over and over when I was a boy. I actually hated them for that. Runrig, that is, not my mum and dad. So for that reason alone it should be changed!

    Imagine the fun you could have with a big shite as your main marketing tool though. Your answer to most unionist arguments could be given in one succinct word represented by your mascot – shite!

  84. Graeme says:

    Meg says:
    4 December, 2020 at 8:02 pm

    Craig Murray is pro trans so you would think they would be happy


    Craig is pro trans but he believes it’s a debate for after Independence, sounds fair to me

  85. Contrary says:

    Well, for some reason I was allowed to vote on this one too (even though I missed the second instalment), very bizarre, I must stop randomly signing up to things. I voted for mostly women, because women are great, and far better at putting a cause before, say, their ego. This is about coordination, organising and guidance, not grandstanding. Well, I hope it is, and no egos allowed (with exceptions, see below).

    All that voting I’ve been doing lately, and not a bit of fatigue. Strange that too, when I’ve been told it’s very fatiguing.

    I also voted for Craig Murray, and maybe some other old white blokes, because you can tell when someone is dedicated and I think it’s great that loads of old white blokes still think it’s a cause worth fighting for. They could be spending their days fishing instead. I’m sure all the other women voted for Angus B MacNeill too, because he has the most gorgeous accent ever. Yes, I’m that shallow, and he’s allowed to have an ego too. If you don’t want him voted in, don’t nominate him, is my advice.

    I admit to avoiding voting for anyone that seemed remotely young, we don’t have time for babysitting and this shouldn’t last long enough to develop an apprenticeship scheme,,, oh well maybe except some IT type person.

    As for the stupid name, Yes A l b a, I think most people in the first conference thought it was shit too. Someone came up with a far better name – which was so catchy I’ve forgot what it was now – Independence Scotland, short form IndyScot, maybe. It was fairly popular and we got into a good side chat about it. The comments were ignored on that – great start eh? – and we only got to vote on if we thought ‘Yes A l b a’ was a good idea and everyone voted yes on principle, with the caveat that the name would be reviewed. I agree that it had better be their first action – stupid name.

  86. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Just got this reply to my question (copied above at 7.27) from Gordon Dangerfield:

    Ian, in court proceedings witnesses are told not to talk to each other about their evidence and are often asked whether they have kept to this instruction so I see no reason why it couldn’t be asked. However, I doubt the answers would reveal much as it’s quite clear they have been coached, and I’m pretty sure they’ve been told what to say if they’re asked if they’ve been coached too…

    The way they’ve dealt with the question of how and when Ms A entered the complaints process and then continued in it is a great example. It’s completely unnatural for people in normal speech to compartmentalize everything the way these witnesses have done so that things one person says about the same chain of events fail to join up with things another person says.

    If you think of how any of us would speak of this, it would be: “AB told me on X date that he’d asked Ms A to speak to me as line manager, but actually she’d already contacted me as pastoral care person on Y date, and in fact CD and I had talked on Z date because Ms A had already contacted her on XY date…” and so on.

    It’s actually quite hard NOT to do this, which is why, in proceedings where hearsay is still not allowed, it’s perfectly permissible, even advisable, to try to help witnesses not to do it. In the Committee proceedings, on the other hand, hearsay of this kind is both admissible and helpful, and would get to the truth much quicker than the stilted, unnatural approach adopted by the SG witnesses.

    Which brings me back to the coaching and the coaching about the coaching, and why asking about it is unlikely to help. If they acknowledge it at all, they’ll just say they’ve been advised to stick to the point, not to elaborate unless asked to do so, and to keep strictly to things within their own knowledge, and who can quarrel with that?

    On a separate but related point, there are hundreds of redactions of relevant and important material in the documents provided to the Committee by the SG, and many of them I suspect have been made on the pretext of legal privilege. If privilege is fully waived, these redactions will have to be re-evaluated, which is one further reason the SG is fighting so hard on this.

    If they are forced to lift some of the redactions and reveal damaging material, we can expect the same line to be taken as with the coaching of witnesses: yes, it’s too bad we had to conceal that highly relevant and highly damaging passage from you but we were only following the rules as we understood them…

  87. Contrary says:


    In fact – can you just start calling it ‘Independence Scotland’?

    (We wanted to drop any reference to yes or no, and a good case for doing so was made – though Yes Jobby does have merits admittedly)

    Or IndyScot? Or any other handy simple realistic name?

    If you start saying it often enough – and some will see it if you mention it – it could inspire them to start reviewing.

  88. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I think you’re being too polite there Stuart!”

    You don’t know what’s at the bottom of the mineshaft.

  89. Famous15 says:

    Yes,well ye ken noo.(cis) damn ,i meant (sic).

    Call it yes ya bas or any bloody thing but I feel more hopeful than I did last week.

    Independence is normal.

  90. Stuart MacKay says:

    Neil in Glasgow,

    Thanks. I wasn’t sure if there was a Runrig connection with “Caledonia” but the contrast with The Proclaimers was clear enough. It was Runrig that started me on the journey to independence and to see Pete Wishart now, well, enough said.

    However Craig and Charlie are the essence of the anti-cringe and no doubt the god-fearing souls in Morningside and Milngavie probably find them a touch too common for their tastes. But for raw enthusiasm and confidence there’s no equal.

  91. Contrary says:

    Ian B,

    Gordon is right there, absolutely obvious there has been coaching.

    I did a wee online course on ‘Witness Forensic Psychology’ – quite an eye-opener, especially on how easily influenced we all are on how we described events, definitely no witnesses should ever be allowed to confer, or be asked leading questions – and one thing that happens is that no two accounts ever match up, people observe totally different things and get muddled on different things, and if giving evidence much later, will have forgotten different things. Any exact match in testimony has to be viewed with suspicion.

  92. Mac says:

    Women are better at men as leaders because they are more…

    It is hilarious 1970’s level sexism but because the sexes are reversed it becomes invisible again.

    Ohhhh lordy are people really this thick.

  93. Neil in Glasgow says:

    Well said Stuart. Re the proclaimers, you could call them cult, but you’re right, they’re far better than that. Lyrically, musically they are head and shoulders above and as you say, say things that the folks at those ends of the town would wriggle at. Deserve far more recognition than than 500 miles gives them.

    I still don’t like runrig though, but they’re not the only ones. Me and my sister used to hide their tapes because we hated them so much 🙂

  94. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. Fanon. His work was foundational to our understanding of racism, and the development of an “ethics of difference”. Which is kind of relevant to our cause I’d have thought. So here’s a look at “Existential Thoughts in Fanon’s Post-colonialism Discourse”

    “Frantz Fanon, a pioneer of post-colonial theory, attempted to seek some unbeknown possibilities through a Sartrean existentialism thought toward ethnic liberation and the fighting against imperialism. This article tries to enter Fanon’s short life that was full of humanism and existentialist thought and to explore the hidden theoretical context when he was speculating the ethnic liberation movement and overturning imperialism. The article also tries to find a whole new vision and direction of thought about Fanon and his anti-colonial theory.

  95. Tannadice Boy says:

    @Stuart MacKay
    The tree is up my wife decorates. She is the artistic one. You missed the analogy. Caledonia was written and sung by Dougie MacLean when he was abroad. Nothing to do with Runrig. Although when we were courting many years ago we went to many Runrig concerts. When I worked abroad it was Caledonia I listened to. That is my song for Scotland. I have missed the first half of the game. I am out now stress of putting the tree up. Look up Caledonia on You Tube.

  96. iain mhor says:

    @Ian Brotherhood 8:02pm

    I see what you did there… 😀

  97. McHaggis69 says:

    Craig is a brilliant guy and from what I can gather has gone up against the Westminster institutions even when he was part of it.
    *That* is why he is despised by them now.

    Sadly, he is partial to a bit of hyperbole which often (for me anyway) undermines his actual message which is usually sound. Hyperbole puts people off and opens you up to all sorts of ‘zoomer’ accusations from ordinary people.

    Its the reason I cannae now really stand Pete Wishart. Everything is ‘vile’… No its not Pete.
    Same with the trans cult. They are always ‘terrified’… No, you’re not. You don’t truly know the meaning of that word.

    Onward Scotland!

  98. stonefree says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood at 7:27 pm

    Very valid point, there is no reason why not, It is not as far as I see outwith the scope , it would have to be in the conditions or remit of the committee

    If someone were to ask, the one question is requered to honestly answer……..I am not sure ,coming back the next day and contradicting the previous is and should be acceptable, certainly not after talking to “Your Best Buddy”
    Like in the Swinney ..they get Alibied Up..Surely not!!!

  99. Ian Brotherhood says:

    I’ve commented enough today and really don’t want to ‘bug’ anyone with covid-related shitery again after the stushie last night, but…

    Please take the time to watch this at approx 25 min mark, and ask yourself whether or not this is information which your children and grandchildren should be made aware of.

    Truly shocking stuff.

  100. Is there any hope for the Green party or is it to far down the woke road to political oblivion.

  101. Essexexile says:

    The new movement could just call themselves ‘Yes!’ and hope prog rock fans won’t mind.

  102. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Craig has what would be called in old fashioned terms PRINCIPLES

    @Ian Brotherhood says at 6:53 pm and you are right when you say “he would be a credit to any truly independent parliament.”


  103. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    I met Gillian aka “Ruglonian” at AUOB Aberdeen along with a few others manning the WoS Stall @Brian Doonthetoon says at 6:55 pm, she sold me a few badges!


  104. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “The list of Craig’s achievements compared to those of any of these wee plooks is like putting Anthony Joshua up against a budgie.” @Rev. Stuart Campbell says at 6:57 pm

    Aye should be the new dictionary definition of a professional vs an amateur 😉

  105. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “you mean the ones who keep the country running and functioning while these freaks play with themselves , the old white guys who get up at the crack of dawn and get home exhausted to see their children fast asleep 5-6-7 days a week for years on end ,while life passed them by because they are to busy earning money and paying taxes”

    ‘I was the soldier’ @Robert graham says 4 December, 2020 at 7:07 pm, great comment Sir.

  106. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    ‘I was that soldier’

  107. Andy Ellis says:

    @Scott Finlayson

    I doubt it. We should be hastening their further descent by warmly encouraging all those complaining about the St Andrews Day Massacre to jump ship and join them. The Scottish Greens have specifically told anyone who doesn’t uncritically accept TRA extremism to leave.

    We must therefore conclude that anyone in the Green party, and those supporting it, are full-on science denying, misogynistic pieces of work

  108. John says:

    To me AUOB was a crap name, now I like it. Nothing wrong with Yes Alba, googled it, got facebook page 30,000 plus likes then I realised I should of listened to what the previous posters said and the article in the first place, it’s the “original” Yes Alba. Has there been an agreement between the two Yes Alba.

  109. Hackalumpoff says:

    @Ian B and Iain Mhor

    I propose a Motion. Instead of Plan B lets go for Preparation H.

  110. Tannadice Boy says:

    @Robert Graham 7 07
    I missed this comment to busy getting abused. Great comment. I was that soldier as well.

  111. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. an ethics of difference. You can’t have one of those without a respect for “relational autonomy”. So here’s a look at “Being Good Lawyers: A Relational Approach to Law Practice”. As we won’t be able to defend our legal rights from arbitrary and parochial legal dogmatism, by playing at British constitutionalism.

  112. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Hackalumpoff (9.45) –

    That comment will surely spark a pile-on.

  113. Hackalumpoff says:

    @Ian B
    Lets just call it the Movement, as we’re in deep shite anyway.

  114. John says:

    Something wrong with my spell check I typed “Et tu, Brute” and ends up “Yes Caesar!” or did I type something else, that’s computers for you.

  115. crisiscult says:

    Some of these folk in the tweets are clearly die-hard indy supporters e.g. “I’m never going back to yes”. They’ll be handy in a tight spot if the British ever send the troops in (unless the fact that the troops are mostly white gets their blood boiling so much that they storm the barricades).

    On the name, how about YES, YES, OH GOD YES. Might alienate the secularists I guess. Just YES YES OH YES.

  116. Neil in Glasgow says:

    Just while we’re (sort of) talking about patriotic pop songs. Already said I think the proclaimers are underrated. Caledonia is immense. Just stands alone. What else I’ll say about runrig is that when I worked as a DJ (quite successfully actually, but I don’t like talking about that ha!), Loch lomond I didn’t mind because the live version runs for ages and you didn’t have to think too much for a last song for a lot of the time! But, I once, when I was possibly a bit wet round the ears, did a posh function at Carnoustie for the RAF. Several toasts to her maj and all that. I was cringing but really had no idea to be fair. Wasn’t one of my best gigs but playing big country and several other ‘rebel’ bands possibly played a part (despite how the catchy the tunes were!). They worked in Glasgow the week before your honour!

    Anyway, feck them. They bought me a house!

  117. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Hackalumpoff –

    We’ll get it all worked out, eventually.


  118. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. “relational autonomy”. This concept features heavily in feminist ethics, so here’s a look at “Autonomy, Relationality, and Feminist Ethics”. 😉

  119. Stuart MacKay says:

    Tannadice Boy,

    The Dougie MacLean version is way better than the Frankie Miller one.

    The Portuguese have a word, “Saudade” which does not translate into anything in any other language. The phrase that comes closest to it in English is “mournful longing” but that’s not really close – there’s a thousand years of culture wrapped in that word. The Dougie MacLean version of Caledonia seems to capture something similar and it’s something that everybody who is out of the country feels at some point. While it has it’s place I think that what’s up next needs something a bit more in your face, which is why I’ll still go for Craig and Charlie – if only to irritate the more well spoken folks.

  120. Tannadice Boy says:

    @Neil in Glasgow
    I thought I was going mad thinking Caledonia was the best patriotic song of all time. All these female wannabes want to go to Sharjah to understand where the rest of the World is. Scotland could be a great country if only we had the confidence. I love big country as well great music to drive along with.

  121. Anonymous says:

    “I think you’re being too polite there Stuart!”

    You don’t know what’s at the bottom of the mineshaft.

    WTF has the bottom of the mineshaft ever done to become the target for all this abuse?

    It didn’t deserve to get Team Woke dumped on it.

  122. Wee Jock Poo-pong McPlop says:

    WTF is “Cishet”?? That’s a new one on me. I just cannot keep up with the Wokies. All they seem to produce is new words for new things they object to.

  123. Beaker says:

    I don’t know if some people are being serious or not, but Yes Caesar is so fucking stupid it defies any logical reason to use it.

    Use that and the public debate will rapidly descend to the Judea Peoples Front… 🙂

  124. James says:

    Yes Now? Not bad, but I reckon ‘Aye, Awright Then’ says it all.

  125. Socrates MacSporran says:

    They could always try to involve the Caledonian Diaspora – how about calling it: ‘Hell Yeah!’

  126. Ian Brotherhood says:

    See if you’re planning to watch Murrell at the committee on Tuesday?

    And see if you’re an actual ‘harassment inquiry’ nerd?

    This is a handy road-map, right here, and, presumably, the one that the committee members will have been instructed to follow:

  127. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @ Wee Jock Poo-pong McPlop –

    For God’s sake man, have we not warned you about using your real name in this place?!

    ‘Tis is a hotbed of subversion and general rabble-rousing – look to your family and reputation sah!

  128. velofello says:

    I admire Craig Murray. Compare his concern and efforts to publicise the UK ‘s treatment of Julian Assange with ….let’s see…. Pete Wishart? I prefer people who can see and engage beyond their own benefits.

    Auld white men; once getting treatment for an sports injury I said to the physio.. ” maybe it’s time for me to call it a day…” he replied, if ye go tae market to buy a working horse, do you buy yon 15 year big strong Clydesdale, or yon wee rickety five year old pony.

    Horses for courses – I don’t believe that Daddy and his petted lip “issue” followers are the way forward to achieving independence.

  129. highway62 says:

    And by “go and find something else to do with their time” you mean “join the greens”. It’s interesting to see how the greens are doing in the polling at the minute. They are overtly all about identity politics and are being roundly rejected by the electorate.

  130. Alison Brown says:

    YES Scotland is no longer available. What is wrong with YES Alba?

  131. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. feminist ethics. You can’t have those without a naturalised feminist epistemology. So here’s a look at “Feminist Legal Epistemology”, which points to “several attempts by feminist theorists to “tame” social constructionism”. Which is the theoretical position that supports the belief in genderwoowoo.

  132. Jeremy says:

    @ Wee Jock Poo-pong McPlop

    ‘Cishet’ is a compound word. Cis meaning cisgender – ie not trans – and het being short for heterosexual.

  133. susanXX says:

    I must admit I’m sick to the back teeth of terms like “diversity” and “inclusivity”. We shouldn’t be ashamed that Scotland was and is an overwhelmingly white country nor that the majority of people are heterosexual. What a fucked up world we live in.

  134. Quinie frae Angus says:

    Graeme says:
    4 December, 2020 at 7:17 pm
    “As for the old white men aye ok you mean the ones who keep the country running and functioning while these freaks play with themselves , the old white guys who get up at the crack of dawn and get home exhausted to see their children fast asleep 5-6-7 days a week for years on end ,while life passed them by because they are to busy earning money and paying taxes so these freaks can keep themselves amused,”


    Graeme says:
    I can relate to every word of that Robert, beautifully worded thank you

    Quinie says:
    I agree with every word of this too, Robert. I have seen what it has done to my brothers.

    The best thing about this new group is that, far from the artificial and gerrymandered constructs controlled by our detractors, this group has developed organically through a dedicated pro-Indy bunch of Yes activists with various *diverse* skills, who aren’t going to be swallowing any bullshit for a minute longer.

    People have volunteered for this; and other people have volunteered to vote for them. It’s in its infancy just now, and will no doubt organically weave and shape its own particular place in the world and in the movement. But if genuine people of integrity and commitment such as Gillian Mair, Lyn, Craig Murray, and George Kerevan are on it, well I’m very supportive and extremely relieved that it now exists – in whichever imperfect form, for now.

    I find it absolutely hilarious and heartening, that even the very mention of it seems to have stirred a right hornet’s nest out there. Those worried about the prospect of their cushy numbers and their narcissistic social media pedestals and perks slipping away from them, are now leaping on the “diversity” thing as a hook to hang their rage on.

    The thing is: in formal institutions, such as universities, workplaces, political parties, and just about every flippin’ public body imaginable out there now, the term “diversity” means a specific thing in management-speak. It means a pored-over tick-box list of quotas to count and select folk by all the BAME, LGBTI etc etc labels they can stick on them, to keep penpushers, windmilling virtue-signallers and the professionally-offended, in jobs and perks.

    However, as any fule no, true “diversity” means surely a “shaking down” of a naturally occurring body of people, who – give or take the margin of error – should broadly reflect and resemble the make-up of the population at large.

    That is exactly what has happened here.

    And the the detractors are raging about it.

    Now why on earth would they be raging, if they truly and honestly were committed to the cause of Scottish Independence? Sovereign Scots and all that?

    I mean, WTAF is going on with these people?

    In some of them, their lack of self-awareness is frankly astonishing. As for the rest, their naked ambition and sleekit, disingenuous agenda is now clearly exposed, and it’s is really, really pissing off the hard-grafting but weary and scunnered grassroots.

    The fact that this little nucleus of activity (the soon-to-be-called-something-other-than-Yes-Alba) has congregated in such an organic and democratic way is its own *actual* backbone! No control over it whatsoever can be asserted by the “handlers” of the cabal, careerists, entryists/50shades of wokeshite (credit to poster above)/careerists/entryists, and other twats. And that is a Really. Good. Thing.

    I’d love someone (i.e. Stu ;-)) to do a forensic comparison of the make-ups of the two different NEC administrations (there’s that word again), and also of this new Yes Alba thing, to see of how each of them “shakes down” when you look closely at the “true diversity” in terms of breakdown of numbers within the population. to show which is the truer version of the Scottish population make-up and democracy….
    It might not show anything overly dramatic. But it would surely show *something*.

    The OFI slate and the “careerist” wing, complete with SNP leadership’s gerrymandering, versus the embryonic “Yes Alba” bunch, who came together during a Covid pandemic in a fit of despair, rage and determination at what they were seeing before them in the running of the nation? With the new NEC in the middle of a Venn diagram, perhaps? Dunno. Too knackered tonight to think it through. But you’ll get what I mean.

    A couple of years ago, I freely but very humbly admit I was (temporarily) frustrated at Stu’s writings; I felt he was “obsessed” with this trans bollocks, and I found myself wishing he’d lay off it. To me, it was distracting everyone from the business of Indy; suffocating general discourse (!); giving ammunition to the Unionists/MSM, and at that time I still harboured an admiration for Nicola and vehemently still supported the SNP.

    But once you see, you cannot unsee.

    And what I see is that Stu Campbell was valiantly trying to open our eyes to this dangerous blight in our midst. With what we’re seeing now: SNP employees’ toys out the pram and the hypermania over the trans thing as all these shallow attention-seekers and grifters connected with the SNP hyperbolise and fete this warped ideology – to the tune of shedloads of our cash. It’s unfathomable – well, apart from the dark money international corporate f*ckers beind it all – and deeply sinister. I just feel glad in my heart that Stu’s still writing his searing, pin-point forensic pieces calling all of this out, and that he hasn’t totally given up through sheer knackered scunnerment.

    Best money I’ve ever spent.

    Time to get another crowdfunder going, Stu.

    There’s work to do.

    And I can guarantee you that Gillian Mair – for one – is standing with her boots on and her sleeves rolled up, ready to start.

    Hey heh! The Grassroots Indy Movement’s been getting a shot in the arm this past few days.

    Game back on, folks. Come on. Up ye get!

  135. Rick H Johnston says:

    I have nae problem wi the name YES ALBA.
    Maist Scots cannae pronounce it correctly though. Indeed even BBC staff get it wrang. We should embrace Scots culture in all its forms.
    The anti-Gaelic cringe is proof of colonial subjugation ower the last 300 years.
    YES ALBA should hae the support o awbody that supports oor country’s independence.

  136. Tannadice Boy says:

    96 percent white with a gross under representation of Bame now in Parliament. So much for SNP diversity. They can’t even do it at home. I am heterosexual you are not you cares we don’t. We don’t judge someone by their sexuality or race but by their deeds. And we ain’t heading towards Independence any time soon.

  137. Neil in Glasgow says:

    @ tannadiceboy

    In a big country would be an awesome choice in a things can only get better kind of way but there aren’t many tunes that get me going like into the valley (which until I googled it there I didn’t realise was Stuart Adamson as the skids as well). The riff, the chorus, just knowing its 100% authentic Scotland – yes!

    And while we’re having a bit of fun here, it probably isn’t a ridiculous thing to want to start to thinking about campaign music. It means a lot when it’s what most people might remember from a rally or PR stunt. Let’s just hope it’s not some PR hack who has no idea. I say that as someone who knows a certain person who works in that field who is, shall we say ‘quite connected’, and has been mentioned in the past in a Wings article. To be fair, I didn’t really recognise the representation personally but can see where the association came from, but I surely wouldn’t want them in charge or the jukebox is all I’m saying!

  138. Quinie frae Angus says:

    Re the tome above:

    No idea where “Yes Caesar” came from. A wee typo.

    ON the name, I quite like the name “Yes Now”. As Stu says, it works for a number of different reasons.

  139. ElGordo says:

    I like the “you yes yet?” slogan, has that inevitability about it.

    Also swaps into the last line, second verse, of sunshine of leith quite well, if only they would.

    Works well with the the U-S-A chant too. That chant could set the rhythm and tempo for big pointy stick thrusts, while herding those bought and sold towards the sea, the day after indyref. Well any day really.

  140. Tannadice Boy says:

    @Neil in Glasgow
    I defer to your musical expertise. I leave the campaign music to you. So much better at than me. You speak in riddles on the latter half of your post. I can bring down Swinney tomorrow from my 2015 stuff but I hold on because I am a supporter of Independence. And how many people are like me holding out for Indy

  141. crazycat says:

    @ Quinie frae Angus

    It wasn’t a typo in your part. The second word in the name of the new group (and also those 4 letters consecutively in any other word) are automatically replaced, to deter people from using a well-know slogan of which it also forms the second half.

  142. crazycat says:

    @ me

    “well-known”, of course.

  143. Tom says:

    susanXX at 10.52pm says:

    “We shouldn’t be ashamed that Scotland was and is an overwhelmingly white country nor that the majority of people are heterosexual”.

    No-one is suggesting that we should be ashamed about that Susan. The issue is how we accommodate, fairly and reasonably, the people who don’t fit so neatly in these categories.

    Right now, there is absolutely no prospect of accommodation between the warring factions on this trans issue. Both want to ‘win’ by obliterating the other, leaving them dead on the battlefield of argument like the Scots at Flodden. How likely is a win like that for either side? About zero I’d say.

    The best way out of this is surely the one proposed by Joanna Cherry (reported in The National today): set up a Citizens Assembly to discuss this issue, and only this issue, and report recommendations to Holyrood in, well, however long it takes, but probably six to nine months.

    Do this, and it shouldn’t be beyond the people just elected to the relevant SNP committees to bring about a truce between the warring factions, and get everyone on the same side: fighting for indy!

    Further, I’d bet Stu’s last fiver that the issue will prove much less controversial when the Assembly eventually reports, and we’ll all be left trying to work out just how we got into this awful fankle in the first place.

  144. Quinie frae Angus says:


    Well whaddyaknow? Thanks for that. never heard of it!

    Love this site too, for the random stuff it teaches you every day.

  145. susanXX says:

    We “got into this fankle” by giving in to unreasonable demands, demands that we deny biology and ignore 51% of the population and that we reduce woman to a feeling in someone’s head. The 2 warring sides are not equal , compromise is not an option. The only way forward is to acknowledge biology and institute 3rd spaces for those who feel unable to use those of their own sex.

  146. P says:

    Forward Caledonia
    Yes that’s good – it’s looking forward to the future

  147. Alf Baird says:

    Neil in Glasgow @ 8.42
    “Re the proclaimers, you could call them cult, but you’re right, they’re far better than that. Lyrically, musically”

    We need to add here ‘philosophically’, ‘intellectually’, ‘culturally’ and ‘linguistically’ as well. Proclaimers ‘get’ the colonial oppression of Scots, that’s what they write about, efter aw. That’s why they support independence. Ma hert wis broken! Bathgate nae mair! etc etc.

    CameronB Brodie @ 8.42
    Great article on Fanon and post-colonial theory, thanks. “a Sartrean existentialism thought toward ethnic liberation and the fighting against imperialism” is where we’re at in Scotland folks. Independence is always about ethnicity an hou fowk spik tae (i.e. language); the SNP’s ‘civic nationalism’ garbage is for the birds, the middle class, and No voters in their plenty.

    velofello @ 10.33
    Ambassador Murray makes the SNP MP front bench look less than dilettante. Craig should have long since been tasked with drawing up the SNP Scottish state ‘international recognition’ strategy. The SNP middle cless dinnae uise oor ain fowk at aw, they appoint ‘superior’ Anglo’s as SPAD’s, i.e. colonial ringers wha aye undermine the cause. Scots intellectuals irnae guid eneuch tae oor SNP heid bummers!

    Quinie frae Angus @ 11.04
    Diversity would be facilitated if the minority Scots language was actually taught tae Scots bairns in schuil. Language being a human right ye ken, as well as the very basis of national culture and identity. Withoot oor ain braw Scots langage thar’s nae Scottis cultur, nae Scottis identitie, an nae scottis naition. Langage an cultur is whit independence is aw aboot! (i.e. To remove Anglophone cultural and linguistic imperialism.)

  148. Hatuey says:

    So, I watched some of Ian Brotherhood’s truly shocking video (posted at 9:11) and I must admit that I am indeed truly shocked… that someone who I perceive to be at least of average intelligence could fall for that junk.

    I have absolutely zero interest in trying to convert anyone when it comes to the vaccine. Do whatever you think is best. But please, for the love of respirators, base you’re decision on something other than a couple of YouTube clips.

  149. Hatuey says:

    Alf, you’re either trolling or taking the piss… the proclaimers don’t sing “Bathgate nae mair“.


  150. ElGordo says:

    Love Scotland is good.

    Positive and pure, difficult to oppose.

    Good for marketing & merchandising.

    May also help with fundraising internationally, could engage with the diaspora. Homecoming events.

    Be difficult then for the any proud but scot to utter the words Love Scotland, as they often love to do.

    Maybe even get Marti Pellow out for that song, if he has changed his mind since last time around..?

  151. CameronB Brodie says:

    A legal respect for the biological differences between the sexes, is a fundamental requirement of substantive gender equality and open democracy. A third space for the non-binary implies additional costs to government. Therein lies a problem that tends to dominate institutional logic and decision making in neo-liberal systems of government.

  152. TJenny says:

    How many women sef id as men?

    Perhaps there aren’t any.

    Maybe wee groups of us biologcal women getting together in groups of 5 or 6 and going into men’s loos, mens changing rooms and insisting on inclusion in men only areas, ’cause we’re selfiding, will make men uncomfortable.

    ‘Cause you can bet your bottom dollar, if men were going to be inconvenienced and discombobulated even a tiny wee bit, this whole self id thing would dissappear quicker than snow off a dyke.

  153. Gfaetheblock says:

    Ian brotherhood

    That YouTube is an utter pile of shite. What weird rabbit hole you have fallen into?

    Unless there is a medical reason why you can’t take a vaccine, or you are pregnant (if you are, don’t drink or eat blue cheese either), the take which ever of the several vaccines that we will be using when it is time based on your age and risk profile, if not you are the problem.

  154. Hatuey says:

    “Yes Now” is the best so far. And it translates well in the “mither tung” to “Och aye the noo“.

  155. David R says:

    Good to know that the SNP and the pro indy movement don’t want white males in their gang. Hopefully they’ll have it on the leaflets so we know not to give them our time, money or votes.

  156. CameronB Brodie says:

    sorry….A third space for the non-binary implies additional costs to government and business.

    Hypatia Podcast: Standpoint Matters, in Feminist Philosophy of Science

  157. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @Alf Baird.

    Totally agree with you about the Scots language, and its importance. Thanks for the reminder of this.

  158. Neil in Glasgow says:

    Sorry tannadiceboy. Don’t mean to speak in riddles. That’s the last thing I want to do here. Just mean that I do personally know someone quite well connected in the snp who is a PR person by profession who Stu has previously suggested in a past article that may be wokey aligned, which circumstantially could well be suspected but my personal experience with them wouldn’t suggest that be to be the case so I’d rather not name a name. I would be wholly suspicious of their choice in music though if they were ever entrusted with that responsibility is all I mean. I’ll leave it at 🙂

  159. David R says:


    They do although not as much noise about it because safe spaces for men isn’t a high priority for our chattering class. Trans men can be as narcissistic as trans women however as they aren’t seen as a threat there isn’t the opposition to them.

  160. lumilumi says:

    susanXX @ 10:52pm

    Well said! All this “inclusivity” and “diveristy” talk seems very imported from the U.S. where these things are a real, big, societal problem. Young wokies in Europe then jump on this bandwagon and bring foreign concerns into our political discourse.

    I’m not saying that things like e.g. racism aren’t a problem in my country – it is – but our history, our society, our political culture is different, and this flooding of U.S. political culture smacks of cultural neo-colonialism.

    Recently (a week or so ago) the BBC did a really weird story about our government. It was by one of the BBC “diversity” correspondents. The headline was something like “Finland’s all-female government backs self-ID”, and it was a strange mishmash of (willful?) ignorance, misrepresentation, untruths and a strange underlying desire for Finland to be like the UK – very “colonising” from that “diversity” BBC reporter.

    Firstly, that BBC “diversity” reporter had no understanding of our political system. Our “Fab Five” key ministers – all women – are leaders of their respective parties. We have a five-party coalition government, which is quite usual in our fully PR open list system. It’s just happenstance the leaders of those parties happened to be women at this time. The BBC “diversity” correspondent didn’t understand our political system at all.

    Secondly, it’s not an “all-female” government. Five key ministers are women, but eight of the total 19 are men, including Minister of Finance, arguably the most important position after Prime Minister (they’re from different parties – an old tradition in our political culture, a kind of a check and balance in a PR system.)

    Thirdly, this BBC “diversity” correspondent bemoaned the lack of diversity, especially lack of people of colour, in Finland’s parliament and politics in general. She could’ve done a simple Wikipedia check. Of the population of 5.5M, “Finnish” make up 91.33%, “other European” 4.90%, “Asian” 2.50%, “African” 0.90% and “Other” 0.37%.

    Most of the “other European” are Estonians or Russians. So… white. So… the population is something like at least 95% white. But the BBC “diversity” correspondent bemoaned the lack of diversity and representation of people of colour in Finland. Importing British or more like U.S. ideas to bear down on our country.

    The point is that the BBC “diversity” correspondent was getting her knickers in a twist because a foreign country, with very different demograpics and politics, wasn’t confirming to her preconceived ideas about race and… whatever. Her belief in English supremacy and teaching other countries shines through. Her attitude very neo-colonialist.

    The Finnish public broadcaster YLE highlighted her BBC report, and boy, weren’t the comments condemning. Stupid girl who knows nothing about Finland or our political culture, how can she twist the truth into such idiotic statements, what’s her agenda, is this how low the BBC has sunk?

  161. Alf Baird says:

    Hatuey @ 12.19

    Bathgate nae mair, Linwood nae mair…

  162. susanXX says:

    Lumilumi@12:43am. Yes, it is all rather neo colonial and a US import not particularly relevant to Scotland or Finland.

  163. Alf Baird says:


    Ye mebbe dinnae ken awfu much aboot Scots fowk an cultur yersel?

  164. wee monkey says:

    “Fiona Laing says:
    4 December, 2020 at 6:36 pm
    Aldo_macb says:
    4 December, 2020 at 5:50 pm
    It’s only a terrible name if you’ve got the Caledonian cringe of hating Gaelic.

    Your use of the word Caledonia has prompted the thought the new group could be called Caledonia Rising, but there seems to be a need that the word Yes should be there for some reason. Personally I think the Scottish electorate are clever enough not to need the word Yes in a group name in order for them to understand it is campaigning for independence”


    “YOU”? need to devolve yourselves COMPLETELY from any association with the SNP.

  165. Alf Baird says:


    Scotland is not much different to Finland in terms of ethnicity. However we have to learn only another foreign language, are prevented from learning our own (Scots) mother language, we have to recruit most of our meritocratic elite from the bear next door, and meantime most of our own people remain subordinate. This is all because we did not become independent, like Finland in 1917, and Scots remain subject to Anglophone cultural and linguistic imperialism, as your people were under Russian oppression.

  166. Alf Baird says:

    Ahm on ma wey, ah ha, ah ha, fae misery tae happiness, tae independence! Ahm on ma wey. Ahm on ma wey. Ma hert wis broken (2014). Sorrow, sorrow, sorrow, sorrow. Ma tears are dryin. Sunshine on Leith. When Ah wake up! If Aa haver. An A wad walk five hunner mile. Da tar at ta. Thocht that Aa wis destined tae bi nuthin. While A’m wuirth ma room on this earth. Yer beuty an kindness, made tears clear ma blindness. Ma tears are dryin.

    The Proclaimers are ‘500 miles’ ahead of most other Scottish bands when it comes to socio-political awareness –

  167. MorvenM says:

    Stuart MacKay: I agree Forward Scotland is too militaristic. How about For Scotland?

    Meg: Yes, Craig Murray is pro trans, but he’s against the Hate Crime Bill, so the TRAs wouldn’t get to prosecute us pesky terves.

  168. Neil in Glasgow says:

    susanxx & Lumilumi

    In a nutshell. Couldn’t agree more

  169. Alf Baird says:

    Hatuey says:
    “Yes Now” is the best so far. And it translates well in the “mither tung” to “Och aye the noo“.

    That’s cringeworthy kitsch, not authentic Scots – ye wee Anglophone troll ye.

  170. Beaker says:

    Don’t use Caledonia. It reminds me of that fucking awful advert “I wish they all could be Caledonian”, or even worse the old Caledonian Sleeper, which I have ample experience.

    Stick to Scotland.

  171. Alf Baird says:

    wee monkey @ 12.57

    Scotland and its people are already sovereign, i.e. de facto independent, though we are led to believe otherwise.

    The choice should not be ‘Yes’ or ‘No’, it should be ‘Leave’ or ‘Remain’ in terms of a sovereign Scotland wishing to continue to be or not to be a signatory party to a UK union treaty-based alliance.

    In other words, precisely the same as the UK exit from EU treaty based union alliance.

  172. Col.Blimp IV says:

    susanXX says:

    “We “got into this fankle” by giving in to unreasonable demands”

    Spot on!

    It is unreasonable in the extreme to demand (with menaces) that people actively participate in someone else’s fantasy, and that is exactly what the inclusion fascists are insisting that we do.

    The biggest impediment to an equal and fair society and the best way to amplify and prolong division must surely be to form and promote factions … no big surprise then that the inclusion industry are the ones who are creating a new lexicon of hate and division, trawling the history books for pantomime villains and doing their damnedest to convince everyone who is not a stereotypical white heterosexual that they are a victim and will remain so if they don’t buy a dozen bottles of their patent snake-oil medicine, guaranteed to ward off all the Slave Traders, Anti-Semites and Transphobes that Scotland is overrun by.

  173. David Ferguson says:

    There once was a wokey wee clique
    It was made up of wokey wee freaks
    We wielded our clout
    An’ we booted them out
    But they still wouldnae button their beaks

  174. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Oh if we are needing a song, how about Scotland’s Story by the Proclaimers?

  175. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I have nae problem wi the name YES ALBA.
    Maist Scots cannae pronounce it correctly though. Indeed even BBC staff get it wrang.”

    And you don’t see why it’s a bad idea to call an organisation by a name that most of the people it’s targeting can’t pronounce? [headdesk]

  176. David Ferguson says:

    Alf Baird says:
    5 December, 2020 at 1:08 am

    The Proclaimers are ‘500 miles’ ahead of most other Scottish bands when it comes to socio-political awareness

    And you forgot the most apt of them all…
    “But I can’t understand why we let someone else rule our land…
    Cap in hand…”

  177. Col.Blimp IV says:

    “And you don’t see why it’s a bad idea to call an organisation by a name that most of the people it’s targeting can’t pronounce?”

    Hardly anybody has a clue how to pronounce Gaelic words or place names, even after umpteen years of the SNP being in charge of the Provincial Government.

    I’d have them buggered and then shot for dereliction of duty, If i din’t think most of them would enjoy the buggering bit.

  178. susanXX says:

    Well said Colonel Blimp IV@1:34am.

  179. Hatuey says:

    Alf Baird says:
    5 December, 2020 at 12:48 am
    Hatuey @ 12.19

    Bathgate nae mair, Linwood nae mair…


    Alf, as clear as a bell they say “Bathgate no more”. You’re either crackers or at it.

  180. Why are so many of those suggesting new names for ‘YES ALBA’ so keen to include the word ‘Yes’ in the name? I thought it was generally agreed that a second referendum is highly unlikely to happen, and that even if it were to happen, it would be a less reliable and straightforward route to independence than a plebiscite election. That’s why I suggested ‘Independence Now’. Is there a reason why this is impractical or unsuitable?

    Are those commenting here still committed to another referendum? We’ve already seen all the cheating and jiggery-pokery that went on in the previous one. Why persist with ‘Yes’ if the referendum route isn’t the way forward?

  181. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Diversity would be facilitated if the minority Scots language was actually taught tae Scots bairns in schuil. Language being a human right ye ken, as well as the very basis of national culture and identity. Withoot oor ain braw Scots langage thar’s nae Scottis cultur, nae Scottis identitie, an nae scottis naition. Langage an cultur is whit independence is aw aboot! (i.e. To remove Anglophone cultural and linguistic imperialism.)”

    Jesus suffering fuck, imagine if we sent out leaflets written like this. We’d be back at 25% within a month. THE IDEA IS TO WIN.

  182. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Why are so many of those suggesting new names for ‘YES ALBA’ so keen to include the word ‘Yes’ in the name? I thought it was generally agreed that a second referendum is highly unlikely to happen, and that even if it were to happen, it would be a less reliable and straightforward route to independence than a plebiscite election. That’s why I suggested ‘Independence Now’. Is there a reason why this is impractical or unsuitable?”

    “Independence” is barely any better as a word than “Alba“. It’s far too long and difficult to type. That’s why we say “indy” all the time instead. When it comes to names and slogans, the shorter and punchier the better, ALWAYS.

  183. @ Rev. Stuart Campbell: ‘Indy Now’ then!

  184. twathater says:

    I remember a couple of years ago when Stu started talking and posting about the trans GRA policies and a few of us were posting comments calling this out

    We were shouted down by lots of the old WOS contingent who are mostly over on WGD now , we were told basically to WHEESHT for indy and ANY highlighting of the opposition to this lunacy would impact greatly on the SNP and Indy , it was all shut up and it can be sorted after indy , and as usual it was keep the heid vote SNP and NS and it will all be sorted .

    LOOK what has happened NOW because people wouldn’t or refused to see the poison that was infecting and swallowing THEIR party and any chance of Indy , even now those same people REFUSE to even consider that NS is involved in any of this corruption or malfeasance which is dividing the YES movement

    Just consider that if Stu and other bloggers hadn’t exposed this malign cancer within the SNP these people COULD have been elected as our representatives in the SG then what chance would ANYONE have of reversing the GRA or HCB

    It is demoralising and frustrating that some STILL don’t see the threat to independence that is caused by NS and her constant lies and FAILED PROMISES of jam tomorrow

  185. Kavdog says:

    I’m sorry to say I doubted you Stu. I did get a bit upset and disheartened with your constant attacks on the SNP. Now I’ve seen the light and you may very well be the saviour of my party, belated thanks – sincerely.

  186. Hatuey says:

    “Jesus suffering fuck, imagine if we sent out leaflets written like this. We’d be back at 25% within a month”

    My God, I don’t think I ever laughed so much.

  187. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Essexexile at 9:17 pm.

    You typed,
    “The new movement could just call themselves ‘Yes!’ and hope prog rock fans won’t mind.”

    A badge I designed in 2014…

  188. Lizg says:

    Neil in Glasgow @ 7.13pm
    Well said Neil that’s exactly my view too even if ( cards on the table)I didn’t know of and work with Ruglonian ( Gillian ).
    As Brian Doonthetoon said @ 6.55 the Wings stall was casting about trying to find someone to provide a bit of coordination and innovation to keep going forwards when Ronnie indicated he’d like to take more of a back seat.
    While there are enough of us to pitch in on the day,the stall needs a bit of direction.
    So we tried to think of who would be the right person, especially since the Stall is representative of all Wingers but not Wings so understanding that distinction is very important.
    Fortunately Brian and Pete the Camera knew of Gillian and her work in and around Indy Ref 1 , her activist credentials beyond that, and , a fair few of us had met her at the coalface too,
    So Luckily for us she agreed to take primary responsibility for the stall management and has been a wee star in doing so ever since.
    She has brought plenty of new ideas and methods us old hands would never have thought of and her can do attitude is infectious.
    A great example being the FOW ( friends of Wings ) Twitter account.
    We all spoke of this many times , with the usual ” I’m not actually on Twitter”, “I don’t know how to work it “, excuses,but it was Gillian that made it happen, and believe me if she can take a Internet Phobe and Twitter illiterate like me and not only get me to join Twitter but also be an admin on an account with a brand like Wings…… That Girl gets things done :-).
    And in the nicest way too she never mentions that I plagiarise her shamelessly, when It’s my turn on the account,although I’m sure she knows… I just need more words people…

    Anhoo … ( and I’m not allowed to do *…….* on FOW as Gillian said it wasted space … so I play on the Revs good nature here …. …. ….)
    I’m so glad to see Gillian ( among others ) on this committee because it looks very much like , the people who, as Neil in Glasgow @ 7.13 said ,are the right people , have stepped up and we can finally get things going .
    As for gender balance here…. it looks like more luck than judgement , but, I know not and care less.
    … 🙂

  189. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    You and me awake at strange hours, Lizg…

  190. Liz g says:

    Ah we’re strange people Brian … lol

  191. Robert Louis says:

    Twathater at 0309am,

    I do agree, though to be fair, at first when I started seeing the things about gender, I too couldn’t see the link – though that changed rapidly.

    I think the entire indy movement should be very grateful we have REV stu. He has, despite constant abuse from all directions, shown the indy movement just what a danger these leeches were within the SNP. Most importantly, he has shown just how the absolute corruption of the SNP goes right to the top.

    Either Nicola Sturgeon is utterly inept, and unaware of what has been hapening, or she is indeed part of this. And the question then is, ‘just why would a political leader who supposedly wants Scottish independence, try so very hard to thwart any attempts at achieving it?

    With each passing day, more and more folk in the indy movement are making their own assumptions as to the answer.

    We will not get independence with NS at the helm. It will always be something that ‘may’ happen, sometime soon…any day now, just keep voting for me, honest’.

  192. Scozzie says:

    Throwing out ideas if Yes A…. is a no go- some serious some not so serious….
    Yes Oui Can – (a nod to getting back into the EU)
    Indy Aye
    Indy Scot
    Indy Yes
    Aye Yes
    Sovereign Yes (strapline could be a mash up to I’m So -Yes)
    Scots Say Aye
    Mibbies Aye, Mibbies Yes
    Aye n’ Bye
    Just dae it (nod to Nike goddess of victory and the trainers never know they might sponsor the campaign!!!!)
    Yes GIRUY ?

  193. Alastair Wright says:

    Yes Now, that works. I suggested YES2 6 years ago, at the time I didn’t realise the SNP woke cabal had no intentions of actually gaining independence though.

  194. Neil mckenzie says:

    Who the hell are these numpties!!!!!

  195. ‘Middle-aged white men’? Pardon my French,but Tosa Zambonini is a racist , ageist, braindead middle class inbredneck fuckwad. I fucking despise white people who sneer disparagingy at their own race, seemingly somehow having missed their own melanin quotient when looking in the mirror they so love navel-gazing in. Total fucking clowns who are, once again, regurgitating sneering racist yank dogshit.

  196. Ronald Fraser says:


    Fuck Off ya wee alky bastard.

    Wee Gingerbread Man is calling you.

  197. Terry says:


  198. Derick fae Yell says:

    Scotland Awake

  199. Terry says:

    Or fir names h out w about , “Scotland grow a Pair”. Lol.

  200. Tartanpigsy says:

    Hi Stuart,
    Much of the first meeting was taken up with discussion of the name. YesAlba is not necessarily the final name BUT YesScotland which everyone wants to use is being held by the SNP and apparently they won’t let anyone else use it. Hence the problem. I agree with most of what you say about the name, but time is short and the new membership organization needs to be off the ground ASAP. The aim is to be up and running by New Year. We will have a busy spring time

  201. kapelmeister says:

    The woke eejits dream of reducing the status of hetero white middle aged men to the status black people had in 1930s Alabama.

  202. Tartanpigsy says:

    I’ve obviously missed something
    Y E S A L B A not the Roman guy

  203. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. an “ethics of difference”. This is essential to an “ethics of care”, which Scotland’s political and legal Establishment appear to have overlooked. So you’re pretty much on to plumbs if you are hoping to experience justice. Unless you are already socially privileged, of course. Such are the confines of a society structured through internal colonisation and parochial legal dogmatism.

  204. David Holden says:

    I remember at peak woke there was a rumour that Rosa was going to put herself up for selection along with a certain Jordon . I suppose if Myrtle or whatever his name is can get passed as suitable anything is possible.

  205. Ottomanboi says:

    I’m in my late teens and given my heritage not particularly “white” yet i consider these fuzz brains high toxicity poison.
    Let them form a queer, trans, woke etc party and test public reaction, assuming they can get beyond the adolescent Hogwarts stage.
    Btw rather like the Gaelic name for Scotland and dare i say more “inclusive” sounding for people like me. Inclusivity is not the special preserve of wokery.

  206. Gordon Currie says:

    How about “It’s Time” as the name, and asking The Who for permission to use “Won’t get fooled again” ?

  207. Normski says:

    Does it not occur to these twits that the very demographic yet to be won over to the idea of restoring Scotland’s independence is the older one?

    Having some older people involved helps get us there.

    Either those in the tweets are idiots or so narcissistic that they lack all savvy.

    And either way – they are no friends of the Scottish independence campaign.

  208. Rick H Johnston says:

    As somebody who once suggested Craig and Charlie cry themsels the Scottish Proclaimers to support their political belief in independence, can I just say how brilliant and inspirational they have been over the years In building up the confidence of ordinary Scots and in particular the working class.
    Cringe no more, or Cringe nae mair.
    Because o folk like the proclaimers the guid folk o Scotland hae a better sense o thairsels – and a guid thing tae.

  209. Rick H Johnston says:

    Stu, ye pull me up for supporting the name YES ALBA and admitting some Scots don’t pronounce it correctly.
    This is down to the lack of teaching of Scotland’s languages in schools.
    I wis telt aroond 30 year ago by a Gaelic speaker that ye say it – ALABA – wi the B being a cross atween a P and a B.
    Tae hear it is easy. Juist tune intae BBC ALBA for the fitba, as I dae.
    The commentators hae it spot on.

  210. Saffron Robe says:

    I’m being slightly left-field here, but what about Jai Alba? Jai (pronounced jay) is a Hindi word which means victory or hail (to) and translates roughly as “victory to all that is good”. It sounds catchy, is derived from Sanskrit (our Indo-European mother-tongue), and would pay homage and take inspiration from Gandhi’s non-violent struggle against British rule.

  211. Saffron Robe says:

    The above should read Jai Al(a)ba. Not sure why it changed automatically upon posting.

    Rick H Johnston is correct as regards the pronunciation. It is similar to Hindi where there is always a short a between consonants unless stated otherwise.

  212. Alf Baird says:

    Rick H Johnston

    Its great to see so many folk speaking in oor ain mither tung. Our Scots language comes naturally to us because our language is natural, unlike English which is artificial to most Scots and which is garred doon bairns’ thrapples in our monolingual schuils and media. This linguistic and cultural imperialism is what gives many Scots the cringe and feeling of inferiority in the midst of a dominant Anglophone meritocracy, which results in a range of adverse health impacts, including schizoid personality (Purves 1997) as well as significant levels of ‘internalized racism’.

    Language is the essential basis of enduring inequalities in a Scottish society split by an ethnic and cultural division of labour (Hechter 1998). Why do we think that most Yessers are the Scots speaking working class? Language is who we are and how we think. It is what gives us our Scottish identity (and culture) and without it we do not have that identity. It is the very foundation of who we are. And those who despise the Scots language, and there are clearly many in any peoples’ subordinate colonial predicament, do so for a reason, it is because they want to finish it off (i.e. linguicide, see Phillipson 1992) as by ending the Scots language so is ended any real notion of Scottish nationhood.

  213. Craig P says:

    Re: Yes Alaba.

    What about:

    The All-ayes.? (pronounced ‘allies’)

    I’ll get my coat.

  214. Hatuey says:

    Alf: “Why do we think that most Yessers are the Scots speaking working class?”

    Anybody that has the intelligence to the read the back of a lucky bag would know that this is unsustainable crap.

    People generally don’t choose to be working class or poor. Stop romanticising it. The majority of them want independence because they are sick of being poor/working class – it has precisely nothing at all to do with how they speak.

    I could just as easily suggest that speaking in that “mither tung” (slang) you harp on about is holding people back and that it correlates with stupidity and crap job prospects.

  215. Grendel says:

    Haud oan! Wait a minute!
    Surely not Ms Plastic Fantastic?
    Did she not flounce off of social media a few weeks ago?

  216. Muscleguy says:

    @Jockanese Wind Talker
    I had the great pleasure of meeting Crag during the indyref here in Dundee, We in Dundee RIC were doing street politics, table, leaflets, a flash crowd choir etc. Craig was in town to talk in the Green Goddess Yes mobile and kindly stopped to say hi to us. All of us.

    He wasn’t well either, pushing himself hard for Scotland’s freedom. I remember the occasion with fondness and respect. I’m a regular reader and commenter on his blog and agree that he is an excellent example of a man whose moral compass, while not perfect in the personal sphere, is bang on in the public, political, international spheres.

    He knows were a lot of the bodies are buried and after Independence when the UK Official Secrets Act no longer applies up here I’m sure he will tell us. Assuming we get indy before he shuffles off this mortal coil.

    With Nicola as FM his chances and ours are not good though.

  217. Rick H Johnston says:

    @Hatuey, You call the Scots language “slang” and claim it holds people back.
    Uninformed nonsense. Almost all Scots speakers are bi-lingual, switching between the two when it’s appropriate such as when avoiding the ire of anglophone bigots like yourself who culturally have much in common with the “Home counties Tories”.
    Shoehorning the Scots into the “English Speaking” box has done untold harm and undermines the confidence of our people.
    Was that your intention?

  218. susanXX says:

    I’m working class but don’t speak Scots, I’m from the highlands.

  219. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. the Scots language. It’s kind of hard to pin that down, as we’ve a number of regional variations. Linguistics are crucial to supporting diversity though. Anyhoo, here’s a look at “Diversity, Difference and Diversity Management”.

  220. Ron Maclean says:

    Oh dear! The kind of snobs who shouted at me and hit me when I was young for using Scots words are still with us.

  221. Hatuey says:

    Rick: “You call the Scots language “slang” and claim it holds people back.”

    No. It’s even worse. I say it isn’t a language at all. I guess it’s a dialect; “Whey Aye Man”, just like other dialects.

    You talk about culture. I think that’s a scam too. All culture is cancel culture. It’s as much about attacking people as it is about elevating and celebrating them.

    You provide good examples – calling me “anglophone”, a bigot, etc. That’s exactly the role culture serves. It’s for attacking people, canceling them out, and the first people you attack are those that see through the scam.

    The emphasis on culture serves for a lot of people as a veil for racist and xenophobic views – in code they say “ethnicity”.

    The rise of this crap correlates with the general shift to the right we have seen in the west lately. All the racists of Spain, the US, Germany, Sweden, the UK, the IS caliphate, etc., like you they’re all out celebrating their culture.

  222. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. culture. Those on the left tend to be a bit scared of it, though it can be beneficial and it is crucial to our moral selves. So here’s a look at “Iuri Lotman: The analysis of Culture from Complexity and Transdisciplinarity”.

    “We have several objectives in this article. Firstly, we return to the category of semiosphere due to its dialectical and polysemic character, but we also introduce some reflections in order to analyze more complex cultural productions. In this same sense, the category of internal and external semiotic border allows us to present the cultural, intercultural, and transcultural translation problems that are articulated with the dynamic changes of every culture.

    Secondly, we examine the category of culture and articulate it with the no-culture, with the anti-culture, which would lead to propose three types of semiosphere: cultural semiosphere, noncultural semiosphere, and anti-cultural semiosphere, which introduce controversial aspects that must be considered.

    Thirdly, we study Iuri Lotman’s latest approaches on the unpredictable in cultural processes, assuming assumptions of complexity and transdisciplinarity that are present in all his work.”

  223. Andy Ellis says:


    I’m all for being open minded, but not for being so open minded your brain falls out as appears to have happened in your case. A language is just a dialect with an army and a foreign office.

    It’s not that long ago that most major languages would have been all but unintelligible to most of the people who now inhabit countries like France, Italy and Germany and Greece. Norwegian, Danish and Swedish are mutually intelligible (and don’t even think about trying to get yer head around Bokmal, Riksmal and Nynorsk in Norway).

    “All culture is cancel culture” probably sounded better in your head than it comes across on paper: it sounds a bit close to “Wenn ich Kultur höre … entsichere ich meinen Browning!”….not a great look frankly.

    I doubt you and those who share your view are being attacked because you’ve seen through dangers of “cancel culture” before everyone else. I’d suggest it is rather that you’re being challenged for a facile and simplistic view of culture, nationalism and language, and a propensity to see every problem as a nail, because all you have is a hammer.

  224. Alf Baird says:

    Rick H Johnston @ 4.35

    We’ve been through this anti Scots language theme with Hatuey before.

    What we do know from the literature is that language differences between people and groups infer and determine power imbalances. In the UK context this is especially noticeable between the metropolitan core and the ‘devolved’ Celtic periphery nations within what is described as the ‘internal colonialism’ model (Hechter 1998).

    Many Scots speakers remain unaware of this prevailing ‘language subordination’ in which speakers of a culturally dominant language marginalize speakers of minority languages (Lippi-Green 1997). This marginalization is reflected in Scotland having a mostly Anglophone and privileged meritocracy, aided by the fact that most of Scotland’s top jobs are advertised in the ‘metropolitan core’ and thus aimed at a much larger ethnic group.

    If “Language is the means by which humans can claim diversity and define their identity” (Shaw 2001), then it would seem a bit of a stretch to say that Scottish culture and Scottish (national) identity depended on the English language, and not on the indigenous languages.

    Minority peoples and nations in self-determination conflict invariably reflect language differences, and Scotland is no different. Language is therefore recognised (by the UN, European Council, international courts etc) as an important criteria for a people having the right to self-determination, in addition to ethnicity, culture etc (Uriel 2015). Language is therefore central to the cause of independence and in the case of Scotland this primarily relates to the Scots language which is a key determinant of Scottish identity, culture and ethnicity.

  225. Hatuey says:

    “it would seem a bit of a stretch to say that Scottish culture and Scottish (national) identity depended on the English language”

    And nobody said it.

  226. Hatuey says:

    Andy Ellis;

    First paragraph: crap.

    Second paragraph: irrelevant crap.

    Third paragraph: suggests you might be mentally unstable.

    Fourth Paragraph: zzzzzzzz

  227. Hatuey says:

    Anyway, we always end up going on these grand tours of revisionist history when we talk about culture.

    I’d prefer we stuck to the issues.

    1) The Proclaimers do not sing “Bathgate Nae Mair”.

    2) Poor people vote for independence in proportionally higher numbers because they speak slang? I say that’s ridiculous.

  228. Big Jock says:

    It wasn’t that long ago that Scots accents were alien to broadcast media. We now have people speaking Scots, Gaelic, Glaswegian , Dundonian etc. On National radio and TV.

    The result is that Scots are now proud of their language and the spoken word.

    We have come a long way. Let’s continue. If language flourishes so does our nation and culture.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top