Stretch goal
Posted on
February 18, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
If we should be fortunate enough to exceed the target in our imminent fundraiser, readers, we promise we’ll use any extra money to try to make this happen.
Brilliant!
Count me in!
Can we not just do a straight swap? We take Henry and they can take Jim?
That would be an interesting one, Sillers could question McLeish about his part in ceding 6,000sq miles of Scottish seas to England. That would bring out his true allegiances.
He is walking a middle roll, call it hedging his bets.
Do not forget he is a close friend of Gordon Brown, who he meets fairly often. So while we can maximise anything that could be construed as Pro Independence for our own purposes, we cannot assume he is on our side. He is on his own side only, just very sneaky how he presents it. Do not trust this man.
I doubt he could stand up to Sillars, and would not want such a debate.Whether you agree with Sillars or not, I personally question his timing to be negative all the time with the SNP, there would be no referendum without them.
He is however, very passionate about a YES vote, and would slay McLeish. It would be good though.
What a fantastic idea.
Maybe have it as a retrospective debate after 18th September though – “the campaign that never was” – to avoid the BBC having a bumper crop of anti-independence soundbites.
Reporting for duty.
Waste of time and money, these two have had plenty of air time voicing their obscure agenda.
Any extra cash could be spent on highlighting what WOS has excellently exposed the BT & MSM lies through billboarding throughout Scotland or at least advertising it’s website to get the truth.
More opportunity for YES votes with that than listening to two yesterday men squabbling.
By ‘side’ presume they mean Labour. To work towards and support an Independent Scotland whatever their politics would be a better cause, for future generations, its whats important really.
Older people should be talking to the young and encouraging them to engage in the ‘debate’, maybe that’s what they mean is wrong, with a no vote they would be denying the younger generation a future.
O/T – getting “error 503” on all but the last two posts! Attack ongoing – so much for British democracy!
apologies – now back on air!
Hmmm, where’s my gravitar?
Actually I think this debate would server a couple of useful purposes (apart from being entertaining).
1.Showing Jim Sillars in would help illustrate and publicise the fact that a Yes vote is not all about Alex Salmond and the SNP – a line which Better Together and their allies push at every opportunity. It would show that there are alternative visions for Scotland after independence:
2. Showing Henry McLeish would also help to demonstrate very ably that although many have aspirations in relation to the so-called “Devo Max” that option will not be available before or after the referendum. It will also show a Labour politician who can at least try to think and offer reasoned argument outside the party line and thus illustrate the bankruptcy of the present Labour and Better Together “leadership”.
Maybe by ‘wrong’ they mean that a no vote would be denying the younger generation a future. Perhaps they could get on with campaigning for a better future for Scotland’s people, which is only going to be possible with a YES vote, instead of pussy-footing around and swithering.
There are four sides to any argument on a Yes/No question, pro-Yes, anti-No, pro-No and anti-Yes. At the moment we only have the first and the last which is why there is no real debate, it is all cardboard cutout stuff.
Only when we get the anti-No and pro-No arguments into the debate will we start to get any light on how to properly answer the question.
They do get a lot of air time. WoS billboards in bus, rail stations. They’re trying to close down WoS online, see how they like reading WoS waiting for their train to the office of a bettertogether morn.
Hackers will not stop us
No thanks ! Wouldn’t give either of them any more airtime !
I’ve got a lot of time for Margo but not her sulky husband !!
Okay, so the CTRL+F5 thing doesn’t actually work, so like everyone else I am resorting to posting a message just for the sake of it.
Seems like the attack of this site is getting stepped up by whoever. It maybe to screw up your crowd funding event, so it maybe prudent to have a alternative process for the upcoming donation request.
Agree with balbayboy at 10.55
And like Les Wilson I would not trust McLeish
It would be a muddle (not a fiddle) …
Tick, thumbs up, like, +1…
Both are yesterday’s men Any money could be used in a better way.
“Hmmm, where’s my gravitar?”
Where did you leave it?
I’m seeing what looks like a nun in yellow is that it?
OT apologies. Not sure if people are keeping tabs n the recent threads, so I just wanted to post the reply I received from the EU Edinburgh about Barroso’s intervention. They did not common ton my remarks about his intervention being perceived as interference in a Member Satte (no surprise) and have obviously developed a standard line.
We acknowledge your concern in this matter. I am unable to comment on the interview but recognise it has provoked a strong response.
The European Commission’s general view has been given in replies to MEPs:
If a part of the territory of a Member State ceases to be a part of that state because that territory becomes a new independent state, the treaties will no longer apply to that territory. In other words, a new independent state would, by the fact of its independence, become a third country with respect to the Union and the treaties would, from the day of its independence, not apply anymore on its territory.
Under article 49 of the Treaty on European Union, any European State which respects the principles set out in Article 2 of the Treaty on European Union may apply to become a member of the Union. An application of this type requires, if the application is accepted by the Council acting unanimously, a negotiation on an agreement between the Applicant State and the Member States on the conditions of admission and the adjustments to the treaties which such admission entails. This agreement is subject to ratification by all Member States and the Applicant State.
probably not much point in pursuing further. But they are covering tracks like crazy.
How long will the fundraiser run for Stu? I’m not going to have money to put in until the end of the month.
Both are yesterday’s men Any money could be used in a better way.
I agree I wouldn’t want to pay to give Henry McLeish a platform.
John King @ 12.15:
“Money is no object” according to David Cameron!
“Money is no object” according to David Cameron!
If only that were the case.
@john king
I realised that I had a typo in my email addy on the first comment I made. Carry on, all is well 😉
@Tont Little
Scarily Interetsing or EU vague…i cant quite decide.
Were we a state before the Union and before EU Union?..some lawyers could make a right few quid in the next few years!
@Les Wilson
“I doubt he could stand up to Sillars, and would not want such a debate. Whether you agree with Sillars or not, I personally question his timing to be negative all the time with the SNP, there would be no referendum without them.”
I can’t agree that there would be no referendum without Sillars. He has a long track record of changing positions on major issues, and even political parties. The guy has no consistency or patience. The truth is that it is through the efforts of the present SNP leadership that the people of Scotland are getting a chance to have a vote on self determination. Salmond, Swinney, and Sturgeon never walked away in the huff after countless defeats, disappointments and setbacks. Sillars did.
^
…which I see the Rev has now deleted. I’m not a crazy person, really I’m not!
@Tony Little
Apols for typo…
@Tony Little
So worst case scenario is, Scotland debt free 2016, Scottish Govt. unencumbered by EU contributions till it decides whether EU or EFTA membership suits the country’s interests best, and we all retain EU citizenship till someone figures out how they can expel us.
CHARTER OF FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION
Article 19.
Collective expulsions are prohibited.
@ John King: With you on this BTW, was only jesting.
” I’m not a crazy person, really I’m not!”
I wasn’t thinking that before, no really
now? meh! 😉
You are going to love this:
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/statuses/435748253305298944
Orkney and Shetland seceding from Indy Scotland. The Unravelling: starring Alex Salmond “I don’t give a damn about anything but 1314. #Naw
” was only jesting.”
maybe we could ask Dave for a sub? 😉
Sillars and McLeish. A couple of pub lawyers and nothing more.
I truly didn’t know Twitter could be more entertaining than the comedy channel:
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/statuses/435701309245624320
Tim Shipman (Mail)
The value of PMQs is not to help people decide how to vote. It is a trial of strength by which backbenchers and the media judge leaders…
Alas Galloway seems happier to spout ill informed Daily Mail tropes than actually engage his brain. Is that what he has become? A Mr Shouty spouting angry Mail threats? It is very sad. He has talent as debater and orator but it is consumed in a fog of arcanely postured rhetoric that I no longer believe he believes.
Yesterday’s men and irrelevant to the debate today ,would be better getting Stewart Hosie against any of the naysayers.
As SNP finance spokesperson in Westminster who better to slay eyebrow blinker the house flipper?
I understand that he appeals to a certain group of people so Sillars may be changing some minds, but when I listen to him talk it’s like biting down on a piece of aluminium foil. Not a pleasant experience, and one I try to avoid. As for McLeish, meh.
@ John King: As long as it’s not nuclear, we have them already!
“How long will the fundraiser run for Stu?”
Five weeks.
“As long as it’s not nuclear, we have them already!”
dead from the neck up today, that took me about 30 seconds to figure out what you meant doh!
Thanks rev, I’ll have funds in two weeks
Amazing article by Angus Roxburgh:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/18/scottish-referendum-independent-scaremongering-eu
“As a Scot leaning towards the yes side, but still agonising, I welcome every constructive argument, but nothing infuriates me more than the rising torrent of unsubstantiated “facts” being presented by opponents of independence, serving no purpose other than to intimidate.
Henry McLeish would be a another unneeded obstacle in the clarity of the debate.
he is an out and out Devo man, like McWhirter, and is irrelevant to the Referendum which does not have Devo (whatever) as an option.
His position would only serve to sap the switherers from a Yes vote and if offered some “Pie-in-the Sky jam tomorrow you gullible peasants” they may be enough to give the edge to No.
remember he said that he was deceived over that sea grab. He knew all about it and was “deceived”
Naïve and a “useful idiot.”
Sillars on the other hand is a visceral hater of the SNP’s leadership and feels it should have been me.
The two of them together would be just NOT what the Yes campaign needs.
Why do you think that the BBC has started to use them on their broadcasts?
couldn’t we just have staedler & waldorf?
Sillars v McLeish?
I reckon the money could be put to something more constructive.
I mean, it’s not quite Foreman v Ali, is it?
What BtP said
ditto
O/T Anyone got a video of Digby Jones [a lord, apparently] going nuts about independence on last night’s BBC newspaper review 2230?
OT Radio Scotland should be renamed Radio Furth.
Virtually all voices of `authority` now seem to come, usually by phone and frequently seemingly devoid of any real expertise, from outside Scotland.
Except for cooking and sport.
I agree with the comment re funding as we want to make sure it doesn’t get ‘lost’ in the post.
I’m finding it harder to keep my temper with everything that’s going on but it was mentioned in your previous thread about ‘is it becoming more prevelant to insult Scotland and the Scots’ – or words to that effect.
I’m beginning to actively dislike people I used to like – what is it with ‘comedians’ who seem to think it’s open season to slag us off constantly on TV?
When did this become acceptable – it’s like they have always ‘put up with us’ but now they see it as OK to do a hatchet job – or am I just losing my sense of humour?
Well said Bugger.
I don’t think the issue is about liking or trusting either of them. The question is whether the debate will serve a purpose or not – ultimately will it help gain more Yes voters or not?
There are obviously dangers in that both participants are somewhat loose cannons but I think on past form, most of the shots from both of them will be heading towards Better Together – although nothing is certain 🙂
Your chance to hear Jim Sillars this Thursday and Friday unfiltered by the media (I don’t think Henry will be there however).
yeshighland.net/nofear
Anyone that sends a contribution to Rev Stu via post should e-mail him. That is what I did the first time, and I will do again for this fundraiser. I simply do not trust the British state.
YES
@liz
They put up with us as long as we do not support Scottish independence. If we bend the knee to the British establishment, then we are only tolerated at best. As soon as we show more ambition for Scotland than merely knowing our place, then the attacks and the personal abuse start.
Reference Sillars and McLeish;
Why do you think the BBC have started to use them on their broadcasts? Exactly Bugger the Panda. And Barroso, and Galloway.
Put more money into publicising WoS is what I say! Look at hard core tory boys like Frazer Nelson or Crichton Torquil/Torquil Crichton. They’re never off the box or the radio and Reverend you are the only YES vote journalist around so you should be able to have the same opportunity to do as these guys do, talk about why Scotland is voting YES. That’s if you’re up for say STV, Mr Ponsonby and co. I seriously doubt the corrupt nutcases that think they own the BBC in Scotland would allow you air time but now is the time.
More fun from Severin:
Gordon Brown warned his fellow Scots today that a vote for independence would mean them losing their British state pension.
The former Prime Minister said the payments could only be made by pooling risk and resources on a UK-wide level and warned Scotland’s more rapidly ageing population would lead to a higher pension bill after separation.
In your friendly neighbour the Torygraph, o’course.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10646056/Gordon-Brown-warns-Scots-independence-means-losing-British-state-pension.html#disqus_thread
Heading to the Jim Sillars talk in Inverness on Thursday myself. Regardless of his feelings towards and opinion of the SNP he should be a welcome voice in the referendum debate. The more that the referendum is seen as everyones chance and other visions of a better future for us all the less anti-SNP > Anti-Yes linking there can be. Even Henry, should he have a vision of a post independent Scotland he wishes to share, should be welcome to a platform to show it should he have the urge to do so.
No thanks, RevStu. I agree with BtP and Les Wilson.
How do Scots age faster than the English then? The UKIPer that said England’s floods were the Lord’s punishment for same sex marriage has more cred than Crash Gordon. “I ended boom and bust” and “I saved the world” etc
@ Dan Huil
(The Papers is on BBC iPlayer…)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03v33q0/hd/The_Papers_17_02_2014/
simply making the point that theres too much linking of the SNP and the Referendum and any opportunity to bust that little myth of Bitter Together’s shouldnt be ignored. nothing flip floppy about it. Are you suggesting you’d block say… Johann Lamont from sharing a vision of an independent Scotland (not bloody likely lol but anyways…) if she actually had one and wanted to make it heard just because you didnt like or disagree’d with her prior actions / her?
One of the things I find of most interest in the debates and talks being held around the country (thank you youtube etc.!) is all the differing reasoning for voting Yes and visions of our possible futures. Its fascinating stuff regardless of personal feelings or grudges towards the speaker.
Gordon Brown is a f**king liar and he knows it – the man is demented, the Britshers hated him – why does he keep supporting them?
Please explain why folk who live in Spain etc can still continue to draw a UK pension.
He is telling lies to scare older folk that they might lose their pension – that is beneath contempt from the ‘son of the manse’
O/T
I keep reading about denied access and posts not appearing?
I have never had a single problem (I use a PC and an Archos tablet)
The only change I’ve observed is that the autofill for comment box is disabled.
Brown is a liar with form. People in Scotland currently die younger than those in fUK on average, making pensions MORE affordable. Hopefully, this will change in an independent Scotland.
I’ve always reckoned there was an outside bet on McLeish jumping ship to LFI. Any thoughts on that?
hmm, middle comment disappeared so that looks a little odd now… oh well.
@ liz, 12.50
Not losing yr sense of humour liz; I’ve noticed the same stuff happening more and more. Looks like the more they become aware of us, the more they want to shoot us down. Not really their fault, they’re brain-washed by centuries of misleading information. 🙂
“Gordon Brown warned his fellow Scots today that a vote for independence would mean them losing their British state pension.”
Gordon Brown needs to tell the DWP about this as they have thus far advised the exact opposite.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24286056
Gordon Brown’s intervention is right up there with Barroso in terms of false allegation.
The man who ended tax credits for pension schemes, thereby removing £5 billion from poccupational schemes, should not be going around scaring elderly people. Gordon Brown’s ego has no limit. He has no shame.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1608722/Browns-tax-raid-on-pensions.html
http://order-order.com/tag/gordon-brown/ This is what oap frightner/Labour’s world saviour really spends on himself and this is the UKOK BetterTogether vote no spin on his giving nature http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/former-pm-gordon-brown-earns-1117071
Hermless
Dan Huil says:
“Anyone got a video of Digby Jones going nuts about independence on last night’s BBC newspaper review 2230?”
Nope, but did see it. I thought he might have let something out the bag when talking about the oil. He said something like just wait ’til we hit them with the decommissioning costs. I hope some of the high heid yins in Yes/SNP are aware of this. Forewarned and a’ that.
Liz @ 12.58 I am the same I am becoming more and more heated/bitter about what is going on and at times have to force myself to calm down and count to ten before I open my mouth in company, its sad and bad. I used to buy every paper printed and watch the EBC without a thought, but I no longer buy newspapers which I really miss and now never watch the ebc in Scotland and never will again. Unforgivable.
Hi Stu
got Jim Sillars on the next free event and live stream on the 24th Feb at Shettleston Juniors, I could always ask?
Also on panel we have comedian Bruce Morton, Donald Reid and MD Michelle Thomson and Ivan McKee.
If you want to ask your own questions of panel tune into live stream or see you at event and ask them in person.
http://www.facebook.com/ScottishIndependenceLiveStream
http://www.youtube.com/IndependenceLive
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive
Genius. That is all.
Liz and OnzeBill
I too share the same view. I havne’t bought a newspaper since 2007. No coincidence this date. It was then that the things that you describe started to happen and have steadily grown to the outright racism, for thats what it is, started.
I often ask the fools on other sites if they remember the good old days when you could tell golliwog and Irish jokes.
Now you can’t. In fact St Patricks day celebrations outnumber St Georges day in England.
I can appreciate ignorance from Scots. I mean If your subject to this media constantly and do not have many brain cells I can understand but to be Scottish and act like this is simply a disgrace.
I try to explain to unionists that when these people slate Scots, its all Scots. They don’t know by looking at you if you’re for i, they just don’t like you full stop.
Gordon Brown. Best example . They hated him and didn’t even attempt to hide it.
Somehow though, we’re better together and polls suggest they all want to keep us.
Like a pet.
Someone give Henry a YES lollipop and get Jim some nice tartan slippers and a pint. Prob2 solved.