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Stella Wants Her Groove Back

Posted on July 22, 2018 by

Labour MP Stella Creasy, explaining to Sarah Smith on today’s Sunday Politics why she backs a so-called “People’s Vote” on Brexit because voters should have the right to change their mind about a referendum if circumstances change.

Except, as always, for viewers in Scotland.

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  1. 22 07 18 12:56

    Stella Wants Her Groove Back | speymouth

  2. 23 07 18 12:21

    Stella Wants Her Groove Back – Aye We Can

  3. 24 07 18 11:06

    Except for Voters in Scotland | A Wilderness of Peace

192 to “Stella Wants Her Groove Back”

  1. bobajock says:

    Its the UK handbrake only.

    Scotland has drum brakes … controlled by the cackfooted English parliament.

  2. Sinky says:

    One rule for Westminster but ignores Scotland just as Gordon Brewer in today’s Sunday Politics Scotland failed to ask why Labour etc MPs voted against SNP amendments to ensure Scots Parly has a say on Trade deals involving devolved issues.

  3. yesindyref2 says:

    “Material change in circumstances”

    Now, what could that be for Scotland?

  4. HandandShrimp says:

    She is not wrong and it applies to Scotland too. 🙂

  5. Calum McKay says:

    Scotland is different because we are a colony taking rules of others and not formulating rules for ourselves.

    labour are no different from the tories with respect to Scotland, i.e. Scots are not sovereign or masters of our own fate and it will stay that way under tories or labour!

  6. One_Scot says:

    Except for viewers in Scotland.

    Not sure how much longer I can put up with this crap situation Scotland now finds itself in. Nicola, just say the word, we are all waiting. Except from the zoomers obvs.

  7. Marcia says:

    “Heads I win, tails you lose” is the Establishment rule number 1.

  8. Ken500 says:

    More Labour lies. They haven’t go a clue what they are doing.

  9. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Ms Creasy makes an excellent point, if following a vote people realise they have been lied to or at least told half truths a second vote is appropriate.

    Democracy doesn’t stop following any referendum.

    That little interview has to be part of any future campaign for independence.

    Things are, slowly, moving along rather well.

  10. galamcennalath says:

    Never heard of her … Wiki … “Stella Judith Creasy is a British Labour and Co-operative politician … Member of Parliament for the London constituency of Walthamstow”

    I doubt if she has given Scotland, and its current constitutional crisis resulting from a massive democratic deficit and external unscrupulous anti democracy meddling, much thought in her entire political career.

  11. auld highlander says:

    Who is this Stella Greasy?

    Don’t bother folks I just did a wee google.

  12. Sinky says:

    Sunday Politics Scotland discusses nothing from a Scottish perspective and that is the fundamental problem with the BBCs political coverage.

  13. Hamish100 says:

    I’m sure. tom harris ex labour mp linked with the tory brexiters would disagree. If only he could get on the bbc to say so. Oops on Radio scotchland again this morning. Donalda will be many labour msps and mps in Scotland in hiding at the moment. But like ruth Davidson

  14. Greannach says:

    Creasy always looks so very sincere. I like the idea of a People’s Vote because I’m sick and tired of elections being decided by animals, birds and fish. Give people the right to vote too, I say!

  15. Street Andrew says:

    It’s isn’t a question of re-running the referendum. It’s aquestion of approving the Deal.

    The default position should be ‘staus quo ante’.

    If the voters think the best on offer is a shite deal (or shite No-deal) we should just carry on as before.

    I don’t think the government has made a cogent case for leaving so unless something changes radically and quickly I’d vote for no change. Back to ‘as you were chaps.

    Trouble is by now the EU will probably be happy to see us bugger off into the deep blue yonder. (and who could blame for that ?)

  16. Ken500 says:

    Laird is just totally offensive. So full of themselves. Conceit. Talking people down. The usual Labour nonsense. They haven’t got a clue.

  17. Ken500 says:

    The BBC even hide their viewing figures. No FOI there. A cover up. The inequality of their salary structure. The lies. The favoured prima donnas. They think they are the news. People no longer watching anymore. Had enough.

  18. Macart says:

    Whilst she’s not wrong, they really don’t do either irony or self appraisal.

  19. Welsh Sion says:

    “The bad objection to a further referendum is that it would be a negation of the people’s will. That’s nonsense. You aren’t negating the people’s will by allowing the people a further opportunity to express their will. If the people choose to change their view, that’s democracy for you. Democracy ceases to be democracy if the people can’t change their minds.”

    – Andrew Rawnsley
    The Observer
    22 July 2018

  20. tartanfever says:

    Sorry to go O/T but I have a question.

    This morning papers have news about Rees Mogg. I understand he’s making more investments in Dublin, and that he works 3 mornings a week for his investment firm.

    At what point do the press actually say, ” Hang On, isn’t their a conflict of interest here ?”

    Is Rees Mogg doubling down for a super hard Brexit as he may personally gain from such an outcome ?

  21. Dr Jim says:

    None of this applies to Scotchland for God sake England is the *Big Country* and what *We* decide for you will be the right thing, and if it’s not who gives a flying ….
    Democracy? don’t start your grievance monkey tactics we’ve heard it and we don’t care, you’re an unimportant region of England with a big mouth and a county council assembly and a wee Jimmy Krankie squeaking with her stupid monotonous shrieky tone
    England is taking back control and that means you people as well, we’ve done it with Northern Ireland and Wales, you’re next, damn cheek of you, you can’t even put a football team together

    Rule Britnatannia and the Broxy bears

    You angry yet?

  22. Shug says:

    If england wants brexit they are going to have to dump scotland and n ireland

  23. jfngw says:

    Unionist always like to vary the rules.

    Firstly they say ‘You voted no in 2014 so you have to accept the consequences of the Brexit vote’.

    But strangely they also claim that ‘My Remain vote should not be used to instigate a indyref vote’ They do not accept any consequences of their remain vote.

    What they are saying effectively is I don’t want my remain vote used to remain in the EU unless it’s exclusively on my terms but you also have to accept my terms for the 2014 vote. They always want the call when using their doubled headed coin toss.

  24. Arbroath1320 says:

    I have one wee itsy bitsy teeny weeny little question here.

    If Creasy, and others, are now calling for a “People’s vote” who the **** voted in the first vote?

    was it the Badgers?

    was it Trump supporters?

    was it the North Koreans?

    WHO exactly voted in the first referendum … it is incumbent upon her and her “People’s vote” supporters to tell us!

    Oh and just another wee question here.

    Will her ladyship, Her royal highness of Fruit farms Kirstene Hair be able to figure out the answer to the question in a “People’s vote” or will she think the vote doesn’t require her input?

  25. Clapper57 says:

    Stella ” owes it to HER constituents via second Referendum, now to be known as ‘People’s vote’, to put brakes on the current car crash of Brexit”.

    However Stella does NOT believe SNP MP’s owe the same thing to THEIR constituents i.e. the ‘people’ via a second Indy Ref …..’people’s vote’ ?

    SNP whose constituents i.e. the ‘people’ were lied to via project fear aka Lying campaign in the first Indy Ref thanks to HER colleagues working hand in hand with the very party who orchestrated BREXIT …..that’s because HER politics start and end with English Votes For English Laws….which has resulted in a “car crash” for Scotland.

    Unionist politics pretty much defined as Do as I say NOT as I Do….with a large dose of ‘Hope they forget’ , ‘Hope they forgive’ and ‘Deny Deny Deny then Lie’.

    I think Stella realises only too well how the “circumstances have changed” for her and her party in Scotland since 2014 which is why she and her like do not want us Scots aka the ‘people’ to have another Indy Ref…..’People’s vote’…except for viewers in Scotland on…….. you know what….there really is not enough expletives to describe all of this DumbShittery that we, in Scotland, are being subjected to , very much thanks to BT mob pre and post 2014…..Stella thinks circumstances changed since Brexit vote but circumstances have remained as a constant, for Scots, since Indy Ref…..Hmm aye right !

  26. Stoker says:

    Be on your guard Scotland, help spread the word.

  27. yesindyref2 says:

    Hard to say if much is OT these days, but, a short list of pending cases at the ICJ:

  28. Fred says:

    Time Brewer got the bums-rush, totally unfit for purpose. Jackie Burd ditto.

  29. starlaw says:

    Scotland must now go independent no matter the outcome of the Brexit vote or Brexit mark two. Westminster has shown that it has no interest in the people of Scotlands welfare just their own.
    English people seem to have lost the plot trying to return to a world which existed in their school history books, following a dream which is just that… a dream.

    Scotland must now go for Independence and the freedom to decide our own future and not be tied to someone else’s dead dream

  30. Sharny Dubs says:

    The original vote was a fix and if there is even a sniff at the possibility of a second ref watch the powers that be move. It’ll be another “VOW” or whatever to make sure it doesn’t happen. We do not live in a democracy so lets stop talking as if we do.

  31. galamcennalath says:

    starlaw says:

    Scotland must now go for Independence and the freedom to decide our own future

    Yes, and it should about much more than Brexit.

    In 2014 I believed there was a good democratic, moral, and economic case … not everyone agreed.

    Now we are in different territory. The UK is a different entity altogether. Part of that awakening of English Nationalism has been attitudes towards Scotland. It began with Cameron’s Evel, progressed through BritNat parties’ choking of Smith, reneging on promises, attacks on Scottish democracy, negation of the Union itself, then Brexit and all that goes with it in WM.

    The choices in IndyRef2 will be quite different from 2014, and I just can’t imagine failure again.

  32. jfngw says:

    I spot the latest unionist ploy. Pretend that you were a independence supporter in 2014 but the advent of Corbyn will result in a left wing government in the near future. You should ditch the idea of independence for the bigger prize of remaining in the UK with this left wing government.

    Of course it is as fake as the idea that the majority of Labour MP’s are left wing, Corbyn would be ousted asap if these MP’s could achieve it. The down side is the left wing utopia would only last for 5 years then you would be back to the Tories.

    Hate to spoil there narrative, but the bigger prize to me is independence. And I’m not any more interested in a hard left wing government than I am of a hard right wing one, they are two sides of the same coin to me.

    Also with independence we could have a left leaning government as often as we wanted, not just have to accept what another country voted for 60% of the time.

  33. Thepnr says:

    I guess it’s possible that there could be another referendum on the EU. I think it’s certain that there will be another referendum on Independence.

    It’s not often I find myself agreeing with a Tory but I make an exception in this case.

    Independence or a No Deal Brexit, what would be Scotland’s choice?

    We’ll know soon enough.

  34. Bill says:

    For the love of **** what are you waiting for ?

  35. mike cassidy says:

    I think in the case of this MP, it is most definitely a case of except for viewers in Scotland.

  36. Thepnr says:

    Also from today’s Sunday Politics a Tory I could never agree with.

    This Tory has something in common with Kezia Dugdale, they have both appeared on I’m a Celebrity…Get Me Out of Here! LOL

  37. Robert Peffers says:

    Arbroath1320 says: 22 July, 2018 at 12:51 pm:

    ” … I have one wee itsy bitsy teeny weeny little question here.
    If Creasy, and others, are now calling for a “People’s vote” who the **** voted in the first vote?
    was it the Badgers?
    was it Trump supporters?
    was it the North Koreans?”

    Och! Dinna be silly – a’body kens it wiz the Russians.


  38. Valerie says:


    Yes, that is a key part of Labour throwing themselves into this People’s Vote.

    There is nothing to convince me at this point, that the result will be any different.

    Corbyn can go along with this, knowing he is odds on to get his Brexit, he goes for this with Slab on board, and if the result is the same, there’s the added benefit of blaming the electorate for the mess.

    How many times have Slab blamed the electorate?

    Tories will waste time on a GE rumour, but not a People’s Vote, no way. So the Labour tack may well force Tories to sort differences and hang on to power.

  39. robert alexander harrison says:

    Ken500 mentioned the BBC hiding there own viewing figures because they have went down and more people have stopped paying the license fee especially here in Paisley as the BBC black snooper vans have been here all week long plus the BBC is canning the daily politics show to save 1.9 million

  40. ScottishPsyche says:

    Stella, who regularly reminds everyone she has a degree in psychology and hence, knows a thing or two. Once feted as one to watch and then JC came along so she is still carving out that niche. Was she one of the Labour women, along with Yvette Cooper, who thought the Scots Law should not be separate for abortion? Silly uncouth Scottish people, eh? Of course, it is different for Brexit, really.

    I don’t get the Socialist no borders thing.

    You can surely show as much solidarity for your fellow man in statements and actions as a Country than as a branch office. For example, when Scotland is independent, a statement of support for the recognition of Palestine as a country coming from the government must carry more weight than calls from, say, the Labour Party in Scotland?

  41. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Imperial Exceptionalism

  42. Ian McCubbin says:

    Same old same oh. Labour denounce SNP ideas or abstain then days later come up with a version of what they denounced or abstained on. Pathetic Empire style politics which will be laughed at my many around the world.

  43. Schrodingers cat says:

    These people calling for a people’s vote will be wrong footed when the new PM calls for a people’s general election where people can vote for a no deal tory party, which will win, or a labour party with no policies or rational position.

  44. Arbroath1320 says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    22 July, 2018 at 2:04 pm

    Och! Dinna be silly – a’body kens it wiz the Russians.

    😉 )

    Ach I knew I had left out someone.

    Thanks for reminding me Robert. 🙂

  45. jfngw says:

    Love this tweet from the Scot Tories, they forgot to add they voted against Scotland 100% of the time, but remembered to vote on all the EVEL legislation even when their vote is irrelevant.

    ‘All Scottish Conservative MPs voted over 90% of the time’

  46. mogabee says:

    Bloody cheek…

  47. Robert Peffers says:

    @robert alexander harrison says: 22 July, 2018 at 2:12 pm:

    ” … Ken500 mentioned the BBC hiding there own viewing figures because they have went down and more people have stopped paying the license fee especially here in Paisley.”

    Sorry to tell you this, Robert, but you are far from correct.

    Go read a TV Licence and you will see the truth. The TV licence fee does not go to the BBC – It is a licence, (permission), from the United Kingdom Government for the licence holder to watch live video transmissions from any broadcaster including satellite, cable and the internet.

    It is NOT a payment to the BBC.

    When, “Wireless”, broadcasting first began the very first broadcasters were, “Hams”, (Radio Amateurs), who were trying to start business’ selling, “wireless sets”. These included Marconi and it was government Licenced Ham Radio stations that first broadcast entertainment and newscasts.

    They couldn’t sell Wireless receivers to the public unless there were entertainment & news stations to tune into. so they began to Broadcast music, talk shows and newscasts from 2MO & 2LO

    The First station was 2MO with a Manchester call sign followed by 2LO with a London call sign. These Hams formed a organisation of “Wireless Manufacturers”, and called it, “The British Broadcasting Corporation”, which remains a private company to this day.

    Then Westminster, quickly seeing the great opportunity for radio’s use for propaganda, (remember that these Hams had to buy licences to broadcast from the UK Government), were taken over by the Westminster Government in the same way that Westminster took over, “The Bank of England”, and, “The General Post Office”, (GPO), by granting them a Royal Charter for 2LO in London and that Became Broadcasting House and The BBC.

    Thus leaving them as officially private companies, but operation under a Government Licence and, in the case of the BBC, getting an annual Government Grant for services rendered to the UK government.

    Ironically, one of the BBC’s services rendered to the UK government was/is to collect the Licence fee for HM Treasury.

    However, the BBC now farms that service out to CAPITA but have dropped the need far a radio licence and added the internet.

    By the Way: The CAPITA Company’s Chairman was originally Dennis Thatcher – the billionaire husband of the Late Margaret Thatcher and CAPITA has fingers in more pies than, “Little Jack Horner.”

    “Little Jack Horner
    Sat in the corner,
    Eating a Christmas pie;
    He put in his thumb,
    And pulled out a plum,
    And said ‘What a good boy am I.”

    The BBC will get its annual grant and can still sell programmes and recordings for profit whether there is enough money raised from licence payers or not and in fact, because the annual grant is from general taxation we all pay for the BBC whether we buy a licence or not.

  48. Danny says:

    Gordon Brewer went through his entire show talking about Brexit and how it will affect Scotland without mentioning the “I” word once.

    The guy is a genius. How can a Scottish Political TV Presenter talk about Brexit and what options are available to Scots without bringing up the option of Scottish Independence.

    He actually thinks we are that thick that we won’t even notice his Unionist Biased reporting.

    I haven’t watched BritNat Brewer for over a year now and by that showing today it looks like it will be another year before I watch him again.

    No wonder I refuse to help pay for his wages.

  49. jfngw says:

    Labour and Tories in Scotland are the same, they don’t want Scotland independent since they are assured of either a Labour or Tory government no matter how Scotland votes. They are happy with either, they consider this the union dividend.

    They then condemn Scots who think they should have the government they voted for 100% of the time (rather than 40%) akin to fascists, they achieve this by always linking this voting choice to ultra-nationalism.

    Don’t trust Labour or Tories, Scotland’s progress will always be of secondary importance to them compared to their party and their own ambitions, the lure of ermine is intoxicating.

  50. Robert Peffers says:

    @Arbroath1320 says: 22 July, 2018 at 2:50 pm:

    ” … Ach I knew I had left out someone.
    Thanks for reminding me Robert. “

    I just couldn’t resist the chance to take a swipe at Trump, the USA in general and the Westminster Establishment. These who all gang up together and blame the Russians for everything from poisoning Russian Spies to the increased fish prices at Peterheid fish market – that is of course, in the case of Westminster, – when not first blaming Nicola Sturgeon, The SNP/SG and the EU.

  51. Arbroath1320 says:

    I had a wee sneezing fit this morning Robert.

    Guess what?

    It wiz the Russians wot caused it! 😀

  52. Robert Peffers says:

    @Danny says: 22 July, 2018 at 3:17 pm:
    ” … Gordon Brewer went through his entire show talking about Brexit and how it will affect Scotland without mentioning the “I” word once.”

    I’d guess that Brewer doesn’t give a damn what the Scottish Public think rather than that he imagines we are all congenital idiots. After all he is either employed by the BBC or is one of their presenters who are part of the BBC scam who supposedly have their own production companies, This, of course, is for tax evasion purposes. Just like that other wee prover liar Nick Robinson.

    I wonder, though, if these tax evaders fork out for their, “companies”, premises, staff and electronic equipment. Basically these people are being handsomely rewarded to lie about anything and everything they can twist against Scotland’s best interests.

  53. Thepnr says:

    No Article 50 extension to the deadline without a “major realignment” in the UK.

    Article 50 extension would need major shift in UK politics, say EU officials

    The UK will not be saved from crashing out of the EU via an extension of the article 50 negotiations unless there is a major realignment in British politics, most likely through a second referendum or general election, senior diplomats and European commission officials have disclosed…

    EU officials and diplomats have told the Guardian it would instead require a fundamental shift in British politics for there to be any value for the EU in an extension of the UK’s membership. That position is echoed in Berlin and Paris, among other EU capitals…

    Mujtaba Rahman, a former Treasury and European commission official, and now head of Europe for the Eurasia Group risk consultancy, said: “An extension can’t be an end in itself. It would need to come with political change in Westminster, a referendum, change of leader or general election, otherwise negotiations would risk remaining deadlocked. That’s the view of the commission, the European council, Berlin and Paris.”

  54. robertknight says:

    Head above parapet time…

    How does the Scottish Govt. reach a position of giving the people of Scotland an opportunity to jump from the emergency door of the UK’s Brexit Bus as it careers towards the cliff edge of a hard Brexit, without invoking a Madrid-like response from London in the absence of an Edinburgh Agreement Mk II?

    Without a second Edinburgh Agreement, Scotland is in exactly the same position as Catalonia and Indy Ref II will remain wishful thinking, courtesy of the UK Govt., the UK Supreme Court and those majority Yoon-led local authorities within Scotland.

    Can anyone enlighten me as to how the Scottish Govt. can get us out of this mess, as for the moment the SNP administration at Holyrood is just as ineffective as Labour at Westminster.

  55. ronnie anderson says:

    Steam Irons work wunders in ironing oot the Creasy’s

  56. Arbroath1320 says:

    Thepnr says:
    22 July, 2018 at 4:08 pm
    No Article 50 extension to the deadline without a “major realignment” in the UK.

    Well THAT sure as hell aint gonna happen Thepnr.

    Feartie is too set in her idea of cliff edge leaping to make ANY changes to her White Paper now, not that she actually is in control of anything cause WE all know that it is the honourable member for the monocle and 18th Century who is in charge these days! ;D

  57. Clapper57 says:

    To all of those Scots who chose not to vote Yes
    Did you really vote No to end up in this mess
    Did you really believe too poor and too wee
    Are you still of that mind or can you now see

    To all of those Scots who chose to vote No
    Do you see why voting Yes was not letting go
    Do you see it’s holding onto a way to be free
    Are you still determined that should not be

    To all of those Scots who still cannot decide
    Did you really not vote when we were being vilified
    Do you not feel that now ,the time ,it is right
    Are you still so undecided about joining the fight

    To all of those who deny Scotland a voice
    Do you really think you can give us no choice
    You have had your time and now it must end
    Are you still in denial of the message we send

    Tis not divisive or unwanted as some harpy does state
    Tis uniting and needed despite all of her hate
    Tis coming soon and by God not before time
    And with that sentiment I endeth this rhyme.

    I’m a poet…and I know it…might not show it….but please don’t blow it….the noo…just exploring me inner McGonagall.

  58. Cubby says:

    What a bumbling useless performance from Brewer on Politics Scotland today. He can’t even understand what he is saying himself yet expects his guests to respond to the rubbish he spews out. He makes toodle loo the noo seem like an intellectual giant.

    Total rubbish from a Britnat who loses his way if he has to travel far from his usual fare of SNP bad and Scotgov crap. What is crap in Scotland is the media. The media in Scotland = Britnat crap.

  59. Robert Peffers says:

    @ronnie anderson says: 22 July, 2018 at 4:08 pm:

    ” … Steam Irons work wunders in ironing oot the Creasy’s”.

    In this particular instance, Ronnie, the steam iron will only work if you do not connect it to the mains but instead hit the Britnat numptie ower the heid wi it.

    Even at that you’d be better wi a five iron, wi a lang shank, tae gie ye mair leverage.

  60. Archbishop of Dork says:

    The UK Supreme Court decides that the Continuity Bill has no validity then that’s it. The game is up. There is no Union between ourselves and England that is even semi-respected anymore by the larger nation.

    Forget elections, referenda etc. We’re free to walk away from a partnership that is no longer even the semblance of a partnership.

    What dross politicians like Stella Creasy say becomes irrelevant and beneath our notice. The Treaty of Union is being dishonoured. Not just temporarily. Not just slightly. Not just partially. But totally. Westminster/England wants Scotland’s rights transferred for keeps. No way.

  61. Dr Jim says:

    Gordon Brewer and the BBC wants Scotland to stick with the politics of certainty within the UK that’s why today he talked about *what if* *just supposing* and my all time favourite *how do we*

    The only person who agrees with Englands Brexit is Trump but tomorrow he might say he meant to disagree
    Every other country in the world is saying *Are you people mental* but England stands alone head raised defiant against the advice of a whole world who England says disnae like them but they don’t care

    I know football supporters who chant that and they’ve got a collective IQ in single figures tae

  62. Dan Huil says:

    Tractors, the lot of them. Don’t pay the bbc tax [I know Robert, I know]

  63. ahundredthidiot says:


    need a new car, wee B is 15 years old and looking for the big car park in the sky.

    Will NOT be buying a Vauxhall!

  64. ahundredthidiot says:

    Would an Independent Scotland have a TV licence type of tax arrangement?

    Would the crazy unionists refuse to pay it?

    Can I apply for the job to track em down and smoke em out?!

  65. ahundredthidiot says:

    Sorry, last one.

    Golfers are such fuds.

  66. galamcennalath says:

    Thepnr says:

    No Article 50 extension to the deadline without a “major realignment” in the UK.

    Interesting clarification, and shouldn’t surprise us.

    It would make sense if there was a general election and a new government with a different mandate from their manifesto occurred, for EU to extend in order for the different approach to get going.

    I doubt if a new leader of the same current lame duck government would be sufficient grounds.

    It makes no sense to give the present WM shower more time to continue flapping around in fantasyland.

  67. Robert Peffers says:

    How the hell can we get through to people that their TV licence fees do not go to pay the BBC? Do they not understand the meanings of the term Licence? Here is the Oxford dictionary definition:-

    licence – (In the USA spelled, “license”):

    noun –

    1A – permit from an authority to own or use something, do a particular thing, or carry on a trade (especially in alcoholic drink)

    Example 1 – ‘a gun licence’.

    Example 2 – ‘a television licence fee’.

    1.1[mass noun] Formal or official permission to do something.

    Example 1 – A subsidiary company manufactured cranes under licence from a Norwegian noun

    Example 2 – A permit from an authority to own or use something, do a particular thing, or carry on a trade (especially in alcoholic drink).

    1.1[mass noun] Formal or official permission to do something.

    Example 2 – ‘a subsidiary company manufactured cranes under licence from a Norwegian firm’

    meaning – 2 [mass noun] Freedom to behave as one wishes, especially in a way which results in excessive or unacceptable behaviour.

    Example 1 – ‘the government was criticized for giving the army too much licence’.

    Meaning 3 A writer’s or artist’s freedom to deviate from fact, or from conventions such as grammar, for effect.

    Example 1 – ‘artistic licence’

    When you pay for a Broadcast Licence you pay the UK Government to be allowed to view live video broadcasts from any source and by any medium including over the ether television broadcasts whether from an land based or satellite transmitter, by cable or by the internet.

    However the BBC has the legal duty and is paid to carry out many tasks by the United Kingdom Government. For example the BBC investigates illegal viewing or transmitting of broadcast signals of any kind and also interference to such legal broadcasts. They also regulate and maintain certain radio and video services for the Government and license such things as Emergency services radio services – like fire, police and Ambulance services.

    The BBC does NOT get the licence money they collect for the Government. The BBC gets an agreed and negotiated annual grant. For those who imagine that if Scotland becomes independent they won’t get the English soap operas the BBC, as a private company sells their programmes throughout the World just as Scots watch, “The Neighbours”, made by an Australian company or CSI made in the USA.

    The BBC will get its annual Grant whether anyone buys permission rom the government to watch the programmes or not. The government needs the broadcasters to brainwash the public and the myth that the licence fee goes to the BBC is part of that propaganda. Like the rest of the propaganda – it is a lie that the BBC is paid for by licence payers and that means, as the annual grant comes from General taxation, you pay for propaganda whether you have a licence or not.

  68. galamcennalath says:

    ahundredthidiot says:

    Would an Independent Scotland have a TV licence type of tax arrangement?

    IMO we need a quality public service broadcaster …. something we aren’t used to 😉

    It’s going to be needed as an important aspect of our new democracy. Genuinely informing, educating, and giving our own culture exposure will be crucial.

    I wouldn’t want to see this important function, which has been missing for so long in Scotland, to be handled on a pure commercial basis.

    Perhaps the experiences of our neighbour are worth taking note of ….

  69. Thepnr says:


    Excellently said 🙂

  70. Valerie says:


    As Raab C Brexit threatens not to pay the bill, the EU put their cards on the table about extension of A50. What a bloody shower these Tories are.

    The EU have been unfailingly polite whilst dealing with a variety of Brit toddlers, all crippled by narcissism, greed, and how to further their career/profile.

    This period of Britnat history really will be used as a warning to politics students everywhere.

  71. Thepnr says:

    It’s good that the EU appear to be of the mind that there will not be any extension to the Article 50 deadline available without a General election or another EU referendum.

    If there is no Withdrawal Agreement before December and if neither of the above have happened before then either, then the SNP must immediately set a date for another referendum as the fact that we are out of the EU without a deal will be clear.

    All getting very interesting now, the chickens are coming home to roost.

  72. ronnie anderson says:

    Robert Peffers Oh er Mr your no inciting me tae violent behaviour , ah know its the Carnoustie week but ah canny swing ma arm never mind wan wie ah golf club lol.

  73. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dan Huil says: 22 July, 2018 at 4:51 pm:

    ” … Tractors, the lot of them. Don’t pay the bbc tax [I know Robert, I know]”

    Nah! You only think you know, Dan. You just have not thought this thing through properly – yet.

    The BBC gets an annual, negotiated, grant from Her Majesty’s Treasury and that grant is paid for from general taxation.

    If you buy a licence the licence fee is added to general taxation and whether or not you pay income tax, (or any other direct taxation for that matter ). not will still pay taxes via the much more important, (for Westminster), by direct taxation. i.e. VAT on Goods & Services, Alcohol Duty, Tobacco Duty, Road Fuel Duty, Road Tax, Betting Tax, Et. Al. Remember also you pay VAT on Electricity and Gas fuels and on any other fuel used in your home or work.

    There is no way to avoid paying towards the BBC’s annual Grant as it comes from General taxation. The BBC doesn’t give a damn if you don’t buy a licence because their Government grant doesn’t depend upon the licence fee.

    Mind you the Westminster Mafia might bother but I think the propaganda value will outweigh any other considerations and, anyway, Westminster can always increase the VAT on anything else to recoup any loss from non-payment of licence fees.

  74. Dan Huil says:

    British nationalist arrogance and ignorance continues. I believe, however, folks in Europe know that Scotland does not want to be associated with such British nationalist hubris.

  75. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Yeah, Peffers is probably right about the license. Obviously what has been, and is currently received by the TVLA will contribute greatly to the amount the treasury pays out for funding the BBC, but it will almost certainly be replaced by funds raised through general taxation if there is a mass drop in license payments. It’ll be couched as a new, better, fairer, progressive way to pay.

    Best thing to do is stop watching it. Obviously cancel your license when you do stop and take heart that it’ll hurt the goons at TVLA, but don’t expect the Beeb-Boob to go away, or your wallet to be heavier for very long.

  76. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    * I mean COMPLETELY replaced by general taxation.

  77. yesindyref2 says:

    I see oor Henry (McLeish) in the Herald is saying like:

    There is no reason why Scotland shouldnt lead a British bid to host the 2030 World Cup

    Independence dear Henry, Independence.

    There’s a hole in the UK, dear Henry dear Henry
    A hole in the UK, dear Henry, a hole

    It’s called Scotland, by Westminster at least.

  78. Clapper57 says:

    @ Thepnr @ 5.21pm


    Have a good evening.

  79. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Now, before you get a new ‘pish!’ ready to go, Robert, we’ll just have to disagree if your view of the license fee is that the current revenue from it doesn’t matter AT ALL in it having any impact on the amount doled out to the Boob every year. I BROADLY agree with you.

  80. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    Henry (McLeish) … “There is no reason why Scotland shouldnt lead a British bid to host the 2030 World Cup”

    Plonker, on so many levels. However, I honestly think the chances of the UK existing in 2030 look slimmer with each passing mad bad Brexit Tory day.

    Raab wittering about no Withdrawal payment without a trade deal. Very few things seem certain, however I think we can say with certainty, there will not be a full binding Trade Treaty negotiated before March next year! In fact, getting one before the end of the Transition, should that ever happen, seems improbable.

    Unless the Tories get a grip on the reality the UK is in, very soon, there will be no agreement of any kind!

  81. Robert Peffers says:

    @ronnie anderson says: 22 July, 2018 at 5:45 pm:

    “Robert Peffers Oh er Mr your no inciting me ta
    e violent behaviour “

    Would I do such a thing, Ronnie?

    That’s a rhetorical question, by the way!

    It was more a physics observation or mechanics even – like the effect that the length of the golf club shaft means the user gets more inertia through to the point of contact with the target.

  82. yesindyref2 says:

    (via Thepnr) “ It would need to come with political change in Westminster, a referendum” (reporting EU officials etc)

    I wonder if that includes a YES vote, or a referendum on Independence?

  83. mike cassidy says:

    The BBC licence scam.

  84. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dan Huil says: 22 July, 2018 at 5:48 pm:

    ” … I believe, however, folks in Europe know that Scotland does not want to be associated with such British nationalist hubris.”

    Well if they don’t know now they never will and Alyn Smyth has been wasting his time and Mr Smyth is not the kind who wastes his time. Neither does the FM waste her time and has been to speak with the EU leaders both at Brussels to EU leaders and in several European member states.

  85. Clapper57 says:

    Just seen a tweet from James Kelly …no not THAT one….Scot goes pop one :

    ” Can someone get James McEnaney a government job, just so we can bombard him with Freedom of Information requests”?

    Responses to his tweet REALLY funny too.

  86. Breeks says:

    Lead story on ITV news is May sending Ministers to European Capitals in an attempt to sell her Chequers “deal”.

    She obviously still hasn’t grasped the concept that Michel Barnier has been delegated the responsibility of negotiating Brexit on behalf of the European collective of Nations. Bypassing Barnier is just disrespectful, and you can be sure the “divide and conquer” approach will get absolutely nowhere.

    Nobody can be that willfully stupid. It seem inconceivable that May is not playing games for appearances sakes, and calculating that winding up Michel Barnier is somehow in the UK’s best interests. Just don’t see it myself.

  87. mike cassidy says:

    No idea people were filming their encounters with the tv licensing doorknockers.

    One example.

  88. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    It’s the ‘Oliver’ strategy, Breeks. “More? MORE?” scoff the eurocrats at our humblest negotiators looking only to seal a gruel deal, before slapping them away with a powdered silk glove.

  89. call me dave says:


    I heard that on radio shortbread this morning.

    The PM taking a leaf out of Jim Murphy’s book is a waste of time and really intended for home consumption darn Sarf.

    Hearing more and more siren voices from unionist spinners offering a cosy National Unity Government because of National Emergency after Brexit.

    Remember NI Stormont in limbo and Holyrood (now is not the time) is a situation which might be worth the risk of taking on if your a Tory PM or a Jeremy Corbyn. 🙁

    Maybe the court hearing on Tuesday and verdict in October will bring it all to a head.

  90. yesindyref2 says:

    Ah well, this is Vow 2 or 222 I lose count, and if it means the chance of being considered as a possibility for the unlikely event of Scotland being included in a UK-wide bid for the 2030 World Cup and meybe perhaps even not being laughed out of the judges’ reckoning after a few of them pop their clogs from the hilarity of considering the UK, then it’s a NO from me!

    Mind you, I didn’t particularly watch the last one, so I might have to reconsider that.

  91. On the Andrew Marr show this morning John Major interview, he said that if during the EUref we were lied to and that if then circumstances had changed from what they said would be the case, then there should be a 2nd EU ref.

    If someone (I don’t have a licence and am not very techie) could download Major’s interview it would be very useful (as it could have connotations to indyref2) to throw it back in the british nationalists faces when they tell us that Scotland made our choice in 2014.

  92. Artyhetty says:

    Honestly Labour carping on about owing anything to their constituents, the insincerity is blatant. Don’t they just owe the ‘people’ some decent policies, and actively opposing Tory austerity, which is actually killing ‘people’?

    The ‘people’ fall for it every time though. England needs a new political party, you know, one that does actively have the ‘peoples’ interests at heart. Get on it ‘people’!

    Regarding the tv tax, don’t pay it. There are a million ways of watching interesting stuff, films, documentaries, vlogs, historical films, quite apart from all the DVD’s we all have on our shelves, not being watched! We ditched tv tax years ago, when the aerial broke, never looked back. Wrote and told them no thanks, they write, we copy and send the letter back saying no ta, don’t want your bias, goodbye. You can own as many tv’s as you want, but not watch ‘live’ tv, and you can’t be locked up for debt in Scotland, which is why the prisons are not full of people who refuse to pay the Britnat tv tax, as they are in England. Ps I love watching ‘men at arms’ on you tube, all about making swords n stuff, it’s really cool, some they make from games and films.


    Had an ENT appointment today, yes Scottish NHS is running Sunday clinics due to a waiting list, I waited 3-4 weeks. I heard the receptionist say to someone, ‘so you can have your follow up appointment next week’. The reply, ‘oh, that soon, I can wait’. ‘OK,when are you available for your next appointment?’ loved the ‘I can wait’ bit’!

    Yep, not what the unionist Britnat daily tory rags tell the old folks is it. It’s all gloom and doom, all ‘in crisis’, all bad, no such thing as the Scottish NHS. Must be costing abit though, maybe that is what the ScotGov emergency fund is for, but whatever, it’s not ‘in crisis’.

  93. jfngw says:

    @call me dave

    According to JRM it will take 50 years to see the benefits of Brexit, a National Unity Government for 50 years. Maybe they hope Scots will have forgotten about the SNP by then. We can’t get them out of office via the ballot box, so here’s another cunning plan to rid ourselves of the SNP.

    I assume the National Unity Government would be, Lab, Con, LibDem & DUP. The DUP is the acceptable face of devolution to Westminster, it’s how Holyrood was planned to be.

  94. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Reluctant Nationalist.

    I usully read all your comments – not always agreeing with them – but I like your panache, unlike that mate of yours whom you outed a year or three ago, who just posts the same half-dozen “humble” opinions between 7pm and midnight, incessantly.

    You know, National buyers are supporting the MSM, all Scots except him (her?) are stupid, Nicola should do as he/she dictates, and so on.

    Can you not arrange to send him back to the workshop for a refurbishment and reset?

  95. Effijy says:

    I’m really looking forward to not paying for Nuclear Weapons,
    Nuclear Subs, English Nuclear Power Stations, English illegal Wars, English High Speed Trains, English Sewer Systems, English Hedge Funds being propped up by selling off the Mail Service,
    Banks, BP, National Engineering, the London Olympics, London Weighting Allowances, London Underground, London Airports,etc.

    What on earth are we going to do with all that money?

    We will need to import corrupt English MP’s and Media to help us it.

  96. PacMan says:

    Saw that on the British news as well about UK government threatening to withhold the divorce settlement as well as sending representatives to individual EU countries.

    I haven’t been caught up with other things and it’s been hard for me to keep up with Brexit events. However, I can’t help but feel that the outcome of this in only going one way.

    The world is in the first grips of an global trade war which no side can be seen as weak. If the EU gives in to the UK governments demands as well as allowing individual EU states to negotiate instead of EU representatives, then the EU will be seen as that. Even though people in the EU understand the political position here, how can they give anything away to the UK when it will hurt them on the global stage.

    Here’s a thought. Considering the UK is trying divide and conquer tactics with the EU, in the coming months, could there be meetings here and there with Scottish government representatives and those of the EU to discuss certain things?

    Another thought. The tactics of the UK government is starting to look like the sharp practices of the US ‘Business’ president Trump and is certainly going to lead to an outcome of destabilisation. Given all the news about the threat of Putin and Russia is to the west, it does seem that a bigger one is in the other side of the Atlantic.

  97. Breeks says:

    Reluctant Nationalist says:
    22 July, 2018 at 7:03 pm

    It’s the ‘Oliver’ strategy, Breeks. “More? MORE?” scoff the eurocrats at our humblest negotiators looking only to seal a gruel deal, before slapping them away with a powdered silk glove.

    I just don’t see that RNat. I don’t see the EU scoffing at all.

    The EU is a collective of Nations, which delegates one voice to be the EU’s official negotiator. It’s rational, logical, and expedient protocol. 27 Countries speak with one voice.

    Along comes the rude boy UK, flicking the “V” to everything that the EU stands for, peeing in the corner, then deliberately trying to circumvent the EU’s official negotiator, and demanding some ad hoc dog’s breakfast of a delusional Trade deal it somehow believes it can secure bilaterally with individual EU members. That just isn’t going to happen.

    Try as I might, I really struggle to see how the EU is the villain of the piece here. It’s the spoiled brat UK approach causing all the trouble. The EU’s position on Brexit has been clear, concise, and consistent from the day Brexit was announced back in 2016. The UK didn’t even remember to keep hold of Nigel Farage’s fag packet on which the whole Brexit strategy was worked out.

    Where the EU’s approach to Brexit has been orderly, rational and constructive in it’s endeavours, the UK’s approach to Brexit has been wholly delusional, like some psychedelic “bad trip” through some bizarre “through-the-looking-glass” alternative reality.

    Europe isn’t scoffing at the UK. Europe is hoping against hope that the UK will climb down from the ceiling long enough to focus their mind and realise just how much trouble they are in.

    Michel Barnier is the closest thing to a friendly face which the UK has in these Brexit negotiations, but the UK just takes some perverse delight in belittling the man’s importance. To me, that’s about as clever taking the piss out of a policeman who was about to forget about your speeding ticket and let you off with a warning.

  98. Rock says:

    Who cares about Stella Creasy not wanting a second independence referendum in Scotland?

    The problem is, Nicola is not going to hold a second independence referendum before Brexit has been completed.

    After Brexit has been completed, Scotland will be at the mercy of Westminster, at least for another 622 years.

  99. Danny says:

    Thepnr and others who are up to speed with the EU have a read at my post and tell me what you think.

    IF there is a Hard Brexit on 29th March 2019 then we are out of the EU. We are no longer European Citizens.

    If IndyRef2 is held in April 2019 then there is going to be a period between crashing out in March 2019 and regaining membership to either the EU or EFTA or the EEA.

    We will be trading under WTO rules within that period,,I think.

    And as far as I know the WTO have to be notified and there is no guarantee the UK will be accepted.

    No wonder the Tories are stockpiling Foods and Medicines.

    It is one big Horlicks.

    Looking for the likes of Thepnr to go over my post and tell me if I am on the right track here.

    Because as far as I can see, after March 2019 everything is up in the air.

  100. Tatu3 says:

    The European countries that have abolished the public broadcasting licence fee are Bulgaria, Hungary, Cyprus, Malta, Belgium, The Netherlands, Finland, Norway, and Iceland.
    There is no licence fee in Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Russia, Spain and Ukraine.
    With Denmark giving theirs up in January next year.

  101. Liz g says:

    Breeks @ 8.36
    The point is though…. Who exactly is in trouble here???
    None of the fool’s running this are going to reap what they’re sowing.
    They seem to believe in their vision for how they want the UK run,and are taking the chance to manipulate thing’s to that end.

    But either way it’s risk free for them…. Their kid’s will still eat,their kids will still get to go to Uni,bing bong all around europe!!!!! Their kith and kin will have health care,and decent food…. They risk nothing but us and they don’t seems to give any more of a shit about it than they did…. Welll…. Did they ever???

    The only thing they fear is torches and pich forks and that’s where I feel sorry for the English,at least we have a choice.
    I’ll wager the no deal plan’s are really mair aboot containing civil disobedience than anything else

  102. Liz g says:

    Danny @ 9.06
    Can you give a time stamp for the post ye mean please Danny ?
    Im playing catch up 🙂

  103. Thepnr says:


    The UK is currently a member of the WTO and will be able to trade under their rules immediately upon leaving the EU if necessary.

  104. yesindyref2 says:

    I think the UK is s member of WTO as a member of the EU, so I think it would have to reapply.

  105. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Rock at 8.49

    Glad you’ve got the ear of the FM.

  106. ahundredthidiot says:

    you do know what the problem is with Yes voters?

    We’re everywhere!

  107. yesindyref2 says:

    Ah, got this from my own blog (

    WTO’s accession chief says Britain’s departure from the EU creates an unprecedented situation that could take years to resolve.

  108. galamcennalath says:

    If there is a ‘state of emergency’ next March as we are dragged out of the EU against our will, I certainly don’t want Westminster and the Tories in charge of what happens here. I want the Scottish Government, or perhaps even a government of national unity with whoever is willing to put Scotland first, looking after my interests.

    Perhaps that’s wishful thinking, but just suppose a majority of Scots felt the same way when faced with genuine meltdown!?

  109. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, from that article: “I think diplomacy is an important tool in how to approach this.

    So that’s the UK will beef hooked.

  110. yesindyref2 says:

    Sorry, renegotiate terms, not reapply. Time for a fag.

  111. Thepnr says:


    I realise that it is a member of the WTO as part of the EU, that has to be the case as for all EU members. However each EU member state is also a member of the WTO in their own right.

    “The 28 member States of the EU are also WTO members in their own right.”

    The WTO came into being as the successor to GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade) a legal agreement on trade between 23 countries in 1948 and of which the UK was one of these 23 countries which founded GATT.

    I don’t believe it will have to rejoin.

  112. Valerie says:


    My understanding is reverting to WTO terms is a financial disaster, and nothing like immediate. There are numerous schedules to be applied to various businesses. Businesses are not prepared, they have never completed customs paperwork. Most are concerned about costs, as they are small or middle size.

    Then there’s the issue of how services are supplied, which is the bigger part of UK economy.

    UK requires thousands of staff for the systems, and the physical presence at various points.

    Trading with EU on WTO schedules is also different to the rest of the world, as you still have to comply with their standards, and confirm you are.

    I think there are lawyers required to interpret various trade relationships. Then there is dispute resolutions to set up.

    That’s just bits I’ve gleaned. The point is this huge expertise has resided in EU for 40 years. They are best negotiators in the world. I don’t see any of them coming here.

    I think the above accounts for several Tories assigned to European capitals over the recess, to try and break their unity. Not the first time that this attempt has been made.

    The gov’t are at last admitting about the stockpiling, and said they will commence the issue of 70 notices of preparedness to businesses AND households, over the summer.

    Pity the poor folk of Kent. 10 miles of lorries.

  113. Thepnr says:


    “Sorry, renegotiate terms, not reapply. Time for a fag.”

    Slow down man LOL. Just read this from your earlier link.

    “The good news for May is that Britain does not need to reapply to the WTO. Maika Oshikawa, the WTO’s head of accession negotiations, said that Britain would not have to run the gauntlet of a formal application process. “The U.K. is a member in its own right, so it’s not like being kicked out of the WTO,” she said. “This is not a case of applying.”

  114. Ian Brotherhood says:

    So Dominic Raab has decided that waving his dick for all to see is the best way to proceed?

    All that’ll happen is he’ll get his Raab Ha’s booted sooner than they might’ve been otherwise – Barnier et al have been courteous to a fault but that can’t last forever. The moment is fast approaching where translators in Brussels will be repeating different versions of ‘Sling her hooks ya bunch ay time-wastin Tory fannies’.

  115. Thepnr says:


    I’ve no doubt that you are right and it will be a beurocratic nightmare that will take many years to resolve. That’s just a gut feeling as until now I haven’t read much of anything on the WTO.

    I’ve just found this link that gives some detail and potential pitfalls in a pretty clear way and makes for easy reading. No doubt this will be something we will end up discussing a lot.

    I wonder when the MSM will start writing articles about it? Maybe never.

    Quotes below from a section of the article linked to.

    If no agreement is reached by March 2019 – or there is agreement on a transition period, but none on a future relationship – then, by default, the UK will need to move to trading under the WTO regime, either in March 2019 or on the expiry of the transition period. Both the UK government and EU representatives have made statements implying that this outcome is a significant possibility.

    The UK is a member of the WTO in its own right. But various procedures are needed to re-establish our autonomy from the rest of the EU. In particular, we have to agree on “schedules” for tariffs on goods. The government has stated that in the short term it would simply replicate the schedules of the EU to smooth our transition.

    There are some more problematic areas, such as agreeing on the division of quotas for goods where the EU currently has agreed quotas at EU level. Yet with enough goodwill and time, it should be relatively easy for the UK government to get agreement from WTO members to operate under WTO rules. It would also be necessary for the UK to negotiate with other countries with which the EU has free trade agreements; this might be more problematic.

  116. galamcennalath says:

    Valerie says:

    Trading with EU on WTO schedules is also different to the rest of the world, as you still have to comply with their standards, and confirm you are.

    That is my understanding too. It is not just about quotas and tariffs, the goods have to meet EU regulations.

    Which is why you see virtually no food products from the US – almost nothing complies.

    The EU seems to be setting the de facto world standards for quality and safety. More and more countries are trying to adopt them, probably driven by the lucrative carrot of an EU trade deal.

    Astonishing that anyone would consider moving away from this! Madness!

    As soon as the UK lowers standards, or becomes relaxed about letting ‘unfit’ products into our system, the EU export market will dry up.

  117. S.Perspective says:

    It’s beginning to dawn on me that Bojo & Co must have seriously thought that the EU would be sending delegations to London to submit various Post-Brexit offers to HM’s government to pick and choose from. Rees-Mock’s petulant commentary so far and David Davis Davidson Whatever’s lack of engagement lead me to assume that they assume the only people they need to engage with are those in their own cabinet, with the EU appreciatively agreeing to whatever comes out of it. I’m still trying to bend my mind round their spectacular ability to reshape their world into a Pre-Ptolemean universe where everything evolves round Westminster, because frankly, such a perspective has quite simply never occurred to me.

  118. yesindyref2 says:

    LOL. Yes, dorry, I forget I’d checked it out and blogged it over a year back, then didn’t read my own blog right. But it looks like it’s in WTO – but kind of not fully in if it has to renegotiate terms.

  119. laukat says:

    Brexit is heading for a no deal and always has as the alternative would require an agreed plan. The referendum showed no cohesive plan from the brexiteers and its not improved since. If you have no agreed alternative plan the only plan that is viable is the one that is there by default i.e. no deal

    The reason we have heard so much talk about preparations for a no deal over the last few days isn’t because they want to appear in control of the logistics. They are instead starting to condition the UK public with the idea that no deal is the best option.

    People can be conditioned with enough media bombardment which is what the Rev reported when looking at opinion poll findings that said the majority in the UK agreed that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’. I expect to see a progression on that catchphrase to make it ‘no deal is the best deal’.

    We’ve already seen conditioning change the meaning of hard brexit from originally meaning outside of the single market but still in the customs union to now meaning not getting any kind of trade agreement no matter how limited. That took less than a year

    With the madness of a no deal starting to gain traction the real question facing us is not the timing of another referendum but how we force one to happen. Anyone figured out what we do if Nicola asks and is told now is not the time again?

  120. Valerie says:


    That is a good source, read their pieces a few times.

    I follow a few of the more sane Brexiteers. Some of those involved heavily in the campaign. There are only a couple with enough of an IQ to pay attention to.

    They fascinate me because these ones do know the detail. With each pronouncement, they do a lengthy thread, dissecting the difficulties. These are the types that advocated remaining in SM and CU, and are now reduced to shouting on the sidelines.

    I generally learn something from them.

    That’s Grieve on front of Times tomorrow, warning it WILL be a state of emergency if we leave with No Deal.

    We have 700+ trade agreements with EU, and the rest of the world.

    Grieve is just a gobshite making sure he’s on the record, because him and Soubry backed down when they had a chance to turn the screw on May.

  121. Ken500 says:

    164 countries are members of the World Trade Organisation. There are 36 waiting to join.

    There are 195 countries in the world,

    Each EU members State country is a member are part of the EU and individually.

    The UK is already a member, The Tories are implying nonsense. EU countries can be a member of the EU and still do deals under the WTO. Many do. The idea the UK will get preferential deals is totally unlikely. For many reasons. A 65 million market. When a 400million EU market can be negotiated for preferential terms. Higher returns.

    It is as members of the EU (collective) that members State trade under the WTO rules can get the best deals from countries that are the most protectionists, They give the EU a better deal because it is a bigger market. With the most clout if other countries try and be too protectionist. The EU can Impose tariffs back if it is unfair. Free and fair trade keeps prices down for consumers and customers. That is why it is considered preferential to keep tariffs down.

    The US, India, and China etc are really protectionist. Most trade has to be done through subsidiary under control of the countries Gov or business Law. It can only be done with a resident partner. Ie a business partner has to be a citizen of that country. In the U.K. (and many countries) only a resident citizen of the country can buy trade or hold stocks and shares in the resident businesses of that country.

    Dealing on the stock exchange, which has to be declared to HMRC. All the dealings are subject to Company/business Law of that country. Bank and business interest rates. That can be higher for foreigners. There can be nominated accounts but they have to be still held by a country national or appropriate investigated person Supposed to be of good professional character. Chartered accountant or banker. Organisation or credited authority of a strict Code of conduct. With penalties for breaking or breaching the code, They can be struck off, fined or imprisoned. Stock brokers/companies have to be multimillionairs with guaranteed funds, including Hedge funds. There are supposed to be legal rules.

    The UK/US banking system set world interest rates which influence commodity markets, UK banks set Libor rates which influence world banking rates for inter world bank lending and setting interests rates. The UK London banks make vast profits exchanging sterling for euros. Banks and businesses need for trading within the 400 million EU markets and elsewhere. Exchanging money rates, fees and interest draw in great profits for major banks. Just for an exchange by computer. Selling for more and buying back for less.

    They make it difficult for other countries to access their markets. Though copyright, patents and tarrif. The US puts a lot if money into research and development. Silicon Valley etc. They make inventions or create products. Through copyright (30 years) and patents (more) they create a monopoly, ie no other country can produce them. They can then charge what they like. They make vast profits and pay no tax worldwide. Corner the market. Sometimes attempted illegally.

    Some countries do not let people take money or funds out of the country. Investments etc. There can be a limit. Some countries currency cannot be freely traded but only exchanged in the country of origin. For example Vietnam etc. Currency can only be exchange at exchanges in the county usually for dollars, £Sterling or Euros. Dollars are the most popular worldwide.

    People can get money out of bank cash machines but it cannot be exchanged within the resident banks. For example. Any surplus (left over) can only be exchanged at the currency exchange. Not the banks. Or taken back to the UK and exchanged, The UK banks will not exchange it because it is not an exchangeable currency. It cannot be obtained in UK etc banks. It can only be obtained through currency exchanges in the original country

    That is why UK/US banking system is so important as world Bankers. The deposits are guaranteed by relatively stable Gov? ie people, businesses know the money deposited should be safe guaranteed by the country’s Gov. The funds will be there when they come back to draw it because there are major guarantee reserves.

    That is not the case in many countries in the world where the funds are not guaranteed or the governments are not so stable. They can be subject to gross inflation or the currency falling. That is why many people in some countries trade in gold or silver. They keep any wealth in tangible objects. Buy a chain or nuggets or something semi precious and then sell it when they want money. Instead of depositing or withdrawal from unreliable banks or using money lenders.

    People have to be careful where they deposit funds worldwide. Or they might not be able to get the funds out of the country or transferred. EU countries are relatively safe. Governance by the ECB which is holding joint EU funds. In the Eurozone a ratio of borrowing to debt rules are there to try to keep it stable.

    The EU (large market) can call firms out. Large conglomerates have more power. The recent fine for Google for unfair trade practices. Microsoft was the same. They were taken to court in the US but got a fine. No deterrent, The EU are going after the tax evaders. Apple, Facebook etc, for unfair trade and illegal activities. Not obey data protection Law.

    Even in the US there are investigations. Selling people’s data or giving illegal access to others for payment. Without people who use their service being informed or aware of it. It is illegal. Even in the US. If the US went after Facebook etc. They could shut them down. Or the EU could shut them down. Another provider could take there place but obey data protection Laws etc. Ultimately they could be put in prison. In other countries that is the penalty.

    In the UK until recently there were no actual Laws existing for Banking fraud etc. There was total increased corruption because people knew they could get away with it. They would take the chance. Or face a relative insubquential fine. Electoral fraud. On a mass scale with a fine which is no deterrent. Gerrymandering is supposed to warrant a prison sentence,

    WTO rules can be looked up.

  122. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, I’ve been upbeat for the UK before, not wanting to appear a doom and gloom merchant, but when you look at it, there are 27 members of the EU plus 4 in the EEA one way of another. Then the EU has trade deals or co-operation frameworks with a lot of countries e.g. “In 2015, Bangladesh was the EU’s 35th largest trading partner in goods.“. Then there are others waiting to get trade deals.

    Does anyone think the UK as Ken500 says with a population of 65 million, will get a better deal than the EU with a population of 450 million without the UK?

    So basically the best the UK can achieve is what it can already get via the EU, and perhaps not as good either.

    Apart from the US perhaps which doesn’t like the EU and doesn’t like WTO. Doesn’t seem too fond of the UK now either.


  123. Valerie says:

    Also, meant to say, there is NO way at all that NI can work under WTO rules because it requires a hard Border.

    That’s a big part of why the EU put NI up front to be resolved. They knew there was only one remedy for the GFA, and that’s to remain in CU and SM.

  124. Awayanbileyerheed says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Less license fee payers DOES HURT the BBC – “The BBC is to cut 1,000 jobs because of a £150m budget gap in its licence fee income.
    An unexpected increase in the number of households saying they do not watch live TV so do not pay for a licence has been blamed for the shortfall.”

    As for the details of TV TAX revenue – Here is the most concise version of what actually happens since the money collected IS PASSED BACK to the BBC:

    “Although the money is raised for its own use, the BBC does not directly use the collected fees. The money received is first paid into the government’s Consolidated Fund. It is subsequently included in the ‘vote’ for the Department of Culture, Media and Sport in that year’s Appropriation Act, and passed back to the BBC for the running of the BBC’s own services (free from commercial advertisements). The money also finances programming for S4C and the BBC World Service as well as to run BBC Monitoring at Caversham”

  125. mr thms says:

    If the Supreme Court decides this week that Scotland’s Parliament had not acted improperly in passing its own EU Continuity Bill, EU law will become part of Scot’s law and it would make perfectly good sense for the UK to negotiate a separate deal with Scotland.

  126. North chiel says:

    “ Galamcennalth @1021pm” , “ I want the Scottish government to look after my interests ( if a state of emergency is declared). However , as I read it the “ state of emergency “ will entail ALL POWERS to be assumed by Westminster , with Holyrood & Cardiff effectively “ suspended” ( how convenient). Thereafter , all Westminster emergency dictacts relating to the governance of Scotland will be “ devolved” to the “ Scottish office” ( take centre stage Mundell and his new colonial servants). How long could this “ Emergency” last ? Weeks, months or even years? . The question is this, how long has the Tory right wing junta been planning for this under the “ smokescreen of leaving the EU? 2 years, five years , 10 years? If this is what they have planned all along then an Independence referendum must be called before any “ no deal Brexit “ on 31-3-19. In fact if Scotland is denied SM/CU , again a referendum has to be called notwithstanding any Chequers type deal . Westminster still has 2 cards to stop Independence , (1)a General election and a Corbyn led gov eventually pledging to stay in SM/CU or (2) a second EU vote . In scenario (1) I would hope that our FM would stand on the single issue of Independence, ( a majority of SNP MP’s to be a mandate to end the treaty of union and the “withdrawal deal negotiated “to be ratified via referendum “. Perhaps some other “ wingers” could advise on scenario (2)?? By that stage they would really be absolutely desperate!

  127. Ken500 says:

    Crunch time.

    Johnston Press debts have to be restructured by 2019. £200Million.

    ‘Johnston Press will listen to a rescue proposal by Ager Hanssen.’ @ Telegraph

  128. Thepnr says:


    That too is my understanding of how the BBC is funded directly from the license fee.

    “An unexpected increase in the number of households saying they do not watch live TV so do not pay for a licence has been blamed for the shortfall.”

    That made me smile, why would it be “unexpected”?

    No one wants to pay to be lied to, so it should have been expected. Especially here in Scotland which has by far the largest numbers of non payers of the telly tax as they are sick of BBC Scotland’s lies.

    Be done with it, join with the rest of us that refuse to pay for Britnat propaganda to be beamed into your living room. There are better and cheaper alternatives out there.

    Starve the BBC of funding and the license fee will be scrapped and they will need to raise the money to continue to make their fake news programs in some other way.

    So what good is that?

    Scrapping the licence fee will be a victory for democracy and humiliating for the government to accept and realise that their propaganda is failing to hit the target.

    Give them NOTHING! Don’t pay the telly tax.

  129. Ken500 says:

    Devolution already incorporates EU Law. The right to self determination and human rights under EHRC and international Legislation. It was recognised under these authorities that Scotland was denied democracy under the UK Union. Outvoted 10 to 1. The UK could have been chucked out of the EU and have broken International Law That is why limited Devolution was introduced.

    Thwarted by Westminster at every turn. They do not even consider if Scotland gets better off they do too. They would rather mismanage the UK and the resources , especially Scotland’s.

    The illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. The Westminster unionist incompetents. They have not got a clue. The Brexit saga will continue until the Tories get voted out. Quite soon? The rest haven’t got a clue either.

  130. yesindyref2 says:

    @mr thms
    The decision isn’t until October. a long wait!

  131. Ken500 says:

    EU menbership is worth it for the shared Defence costs alone. It has suggested an increase of £20Billion would be required A year? Membership costs £12Billion. Depending on the exchange rate.

    Never mind the other benefits. Nearest, biggest market. Trading opportunities Good social, employment Laws. Often introduced by the UK Gov once upon a time. The basis of the ECHR was established by Westminster after the 11WW. Changed times now they want to turn it down. Benefits guaranteed to safer worldwide travel. Lower tariffs keeping prices down. Investment in renewables and investment grants for those who qualify for good practise and environmental concerns.

    EU common aims to produce enough food and stop wars which do achieve, even by example. A common framework for good. Including in medicine and good reliable manufacturer goods. Germany paid the price for illegal emissions. Falsifying car emission tests. Cost £Billions plus fines Breaking set standards. Certain standards required guaranteeing human rights and self governance. Benefits for the positives which far outweigh the negative.

  132. K1 says:

    Worth a read.

    At least Portugal is bucking the raging TINA to austerity agenda…economic stimulus is the answer (I know, preaching to the converted on here, but it’s a positive article, we could do wi a we lift every now and then)…sure it’ll take time but they are certainly setting a precedent, there is absolutely no need for ‘us’ to continue to be subject to Tory austerity policies…Portugal is showing a/the way forward:

  133. mr thms says:

    Thanks yesindyref3.

    That is in the month that the UK is expected to have agreed/not agreed a deal with the EU.

    I am still expecting the same outcome..

    I downloaded this pdf from the publications section of the Scottish Parliament website–Legal-Continuity—Scotland–Bill

    Page 24 is interesting.

    It says that under Section 5 of the Scottish EU Continuity Bill, The Charter of Fundamental Rights would be incorporated into Scots Law. Unlike, the UK Withdrawal bill which does not.

    The UK and Scottish Bills are oddly compatible with each other

    When you think about it, it does make sense, since the UK would be withdrawing from the EU so it has no need to incorporate The Charter, whereas an independent Scotland (as one of the two successor states) would have to have The Charter in place.

    Article 50 does have several parts and part 5 says..

    “If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49”

  134. mr thms says:

    Sorry for mis-spelling your name indyref2.


  135. Valerie says:

    @ North Chiel

    I think you have pretty much pulled it together there.

    It’s why I’ve said No Deal for a while. However, this coup is made up of zealots who have been festering since we joined (Bone, Redwood) proper EU haters, and they have persuaded likes of IDS, that the beauty is this approach also stops the jocks.

    Once we are out in March, we have no one to appeal to, and in a state of emergency, our voice is subsumed in the mayhem of survival.

    A state of emergency would see troops up here, to “help”. They are actively looking at army transport for supplies.

    I watched the Sky news paper reviews and two reviewers were scoffing, saying this definitely is nuts, it won’t be Mad Max. Yet, Grieve, former Attorney General is warning exactly that, as are the professors of EU law on Twitter. They can barely believe it.

    We know all the rebranding that’s been going on. Every day another example on Twitter of Butcher’s Apron on goods or services. Huge complaints about Royal Show at Ingliston – British Harris Tweed etc. Apparently not a Saltire to be seen.


  136. twathater says:

    @ thepnr 1.40 pm

    Alex I posted links to Dominic Grieve’s comments days ago and also commented that this could possibly lead to troops on the streets to ensure ahem (safety and security ) I also posted links to indycar Gordon Ross on youtube who raised this issue ,yet very few people commented
    This to me is the direction of travel of these nutjobs ,force the SG into suspension and voila out comes his arseship viceroy muddle to run Scotland from his new Scotchland bunker

    I also commented that I hoped Nicola had plans to make sure this didn;t happen

    I am not paranoid but have 67 years of experience of wastemonsters tory ,liebour and lib dums lies so NOTHING surprises me what they are capable of

  137. Valerie says:

    I told my sun loving friend, don’t book any travel around Brexit time.

    I’ve heard this scoffed at too.

  138. The Raggity Man says:

    Stella is my local MP quite often see her in the street. Will ask her directly what her opinion is on a Scottish 2nd referendum and get back to you with the information.

  139. Roger says:

    Maybe Sinn Fein will rock up and put an end to this Brexit nonsense…

  140. North chiel says:

    “Valerie@0129 am” , yes it would seem a distinct possibility that this scenario is unfolding. I can now see TM addressing the “ nation” in grave& hushed terms from no.10 propagating the “ war time spirit” . The hardship of food& fuel “ rationing” to come will be so worth the sacrifice to enable JRM and his cronies to prosper . The “ crumbs from their table” to thus be donated to food banks to “ feed the deserving poor”. And yes , of course at the first sign of civil unrest in “ the colonies” ( that includes a “ ring of steel around fortress Mundell “).. Make no mistake about that . Emergency powers laws will be rigidly enforced . Anyone speaking out will of course be “ outed” as “ unpatriotic” by the Westminster propagandists.
    You get the picture? We need Independence BEFORE any “ state of emergency declaration”

  141. yesindyref2 says:

    @mr thms
    Absolutely about the EU thing and the Continuuty Bill, I think that was in one of the articles Kirsty Hughes had in The National, to keep the full aquis in step and make it realtively seamless.

    As for yesindyref3 I hope we get it right this time, otherwise I’ll just have to change my name!

  142. yesindyref2 says:

    @Ken500 “EU menbership is worth it for the shared Defence costs alone

    Very possibly if PESCO develops, as it is about shared logistics, and development. I think it should also be about training, don’t think it is so far. It could particualrly be good for small satets, such as iScotland, giving scale to costs. The key thing anyone needs to know, for the eurosceptic scaries, is that any forces committed at any time, remain under the control of the member state. So it’s not an EU Army as such, though it could be for units member states are voluntarily prepared to release.

  143. yesindyref2 says:

    The UK isn’t / wasn’t actually against PESCO by the way despite what some of the rubbish MSM says, it just didn’t want to be part of it, which is actually sensible for a lot of reasons.

  144. manandboy says:

    Have you noticed how animals and birds often lift their heads and look around. Its not a bad idea for humans too.

    Independence and Brexit have a global context – an important aspect of that is worldwide degradation of the resources of the planet.

    (I was in a deep sleep – then a mobile phone rang and here I am still awake 2hrs later. Never mind, with a no-deal Brexit coming, sleep may well become a luxury very soon.)
    Hail Alba.

  145. manandboy says:

    Theresa May is being carefully kept in her post as PM, even though she resigned from reality some time ago, probably on the day she first said the words ‘Brexit means Brexit’.

  146. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Breeks

    You misunderstand. I meant that the EU would be made to somehow LOOK arrogant in bits of Engerlund with the help of the likes of The Express and some others. Plucky Britain tries its best. Oliver the underdog.

    Maybe not.

  147. Robert Louis says:

    Regarding the pretendy ‘uk’ ‘supreme’ court case in England – regarding the continuity bill – aka Westminster V. The people of Scotland..

    The case on the Scottish continuity bill is being held this week, yet we are told the decision will not be available until October. Can anybody tell me why???? And, does the pretendy ‘supreme’ court have a mechanism for expediting such judgements, where circumstances require it.

  148. Smallaxe says:

    Tory lickspittle Secretary of State for Scotland David Mundell reported to the Standards Committee for breach of Ministerial Code;


    The Brexit Ultimatum;

    Bleakest Forecast;

  149. Smallaxe says:

    Process and tactics in the Brexit end-game;

    Diane Abbott spots the sinister motive behind establishment calls for a ‘national’ government;

    Article 50 extension would need major shift in UK politics, say EU officials;

    Tony Blair hits peak hypocrisy as his latest dodgy dealings are exposed;

  150. Smallaxe says:

    BBC under pressure to disclose funding of Thinktank panel guests on political programmes;

    DWP silence over ‘thousands of ESA claims lost in IT black hole’;

    POLITICO Sunday Crunch: Tories at war — European tour — Where’s Vince?;


  151. Bobp says:

    The pretendy supreme court should not be recognised under Scots law.

  152. Highland Wifie says:

    Thanks for the link to that story about Portugal’s economy. Uplifting.
    It shows the difference it makes when a government is focused on the effect policy has on its people in contrast to the total disconnect that exists at WM. Frankly they don’t really care.
    Positivity, like negativity, creates a spiral in which the psychological impact becomes as important as the physical economics.
    You’re right, worth a read.

  153. Smallaxe says:

    CENSORED: 12 months of corporate crime in backdrop of the starving being criminalised;

    Universal credit IT system ‘broken’, whistleblowers say;

    Barclays plans 2,500 new jobs in Glasgow;

    This article is old but very relevant!
    Peter Bell says:
    As British politicians talk openly of a ‘state of emergency’, the people of Scotland should read this and be deeply concerned
    article from 2011.
    Sweeping powers open to ministers in times of crisis;

  154. Smallaxe says:

    Barclays plans 2,500 new jobs in Glasgow;

    Brexit deal: Let’s get on with it, says Theresa May;

    Tony Blair’s institute gets $10m from Saudi Arabia for modernization help – report;

    Letter: Why ‘No Deal’ is the best way to stop Brexit;

  155. Smallaxe says:

    More action urged on women’s human rights;

    PAUL KNOTT: Yesterday’s woman? How Europe left Merkel behind;

    Letters: An independent Scotland will need EU support;

    Jacob Rees-Mogg just made an incredible revelation about Brexit;

  156. Smallaxe says:

    A Tory MP f***ed up so badly even a Daily Mail columnist called him out;

    Amber Rudd is my MP. Her latest publicity stunt is hilariously embarrassing.;

    British reject May’s Brexit plan, some turn to Boris and far right: poll;

    Have a peaceful and prosperous day, Wingers.

  157. Tackety Beets says:

    Aggghhhh FFS here our “Pedigree Chum(p)”

    Finance expert ?

  158. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Brian Doonthetoon

    I have fond memories of sitting chewin’ the fat with Rock over a couple of British drams, and how the conversation moved freely and unrestrained like a boaby under a union kilt. The man had a wit like the sharpest claymore – slow and you could see it coming a mile off, but he was still guid company fir aw that, och aye the noo.

    It’s just that he became a little weird….aound about the time I accidentally shot him in the head; and our conversations would sadly no longer remind me of swinging boabies.
    “Remember that time you said something critical of Sturgeon, and it was like you were a fox that’d been spotted by the hunt?” I asked, only for him to reply, “5th August 2016, Rock squandered a once in a lifetime chance to be part of the fanclub. A separate opinion was never going to be tolerated. As a result, instead of posting a wide variety of comments on different subjects, I became a tedious caricature cursed with a crude database instead of memory.”

    I shed a tear that day. And it was then, Brian D Town, that I knew I had to shoot him again. Unfortunately the NHS has some great surgeons.

  159. Sinky says:

    BBC giving lots of credence to fringe grouping Kevin Hague’s These Islands critique of Growth Commission.

    Of course they are not biased so remind me when BBC reported or give huge amount of airtime to Business For Scotland for example.

    Row over National Museum of Scotland using Union Jack on signage:

    It is run by the British establishment

  160. Hamish100 says:

    Try mediation over your medication

  161. Smallaxe says:

    Yes vote stands at 46% in Scot Goes Pop Poll of Polls;

    The Office for Budget Responsibility does not do macroeconomics, as its Fiscal Sustainability Report painfully proves;

  162. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    What medication, Hamish?

  163. Phronesis says:

    The state of the union;

    ‘Delegating the WCA to foreign private contractors in order to facilitate state crime by proxy, the WCA was conducted by another unaccountable corporate giant; first by Atos Healthcare and then by Maximus. This is how ‘state corporate harm’ was created…and adopted by the DWP, which would lead to chronically ill people being ‘killed by the state…

    A weakened Conservative government, who lost their large majority and all credibility in the 2017 UK general election should be relentlessly challenged. What authority do they have to justify disregarding the copious amount of very detailed independent research evidence exposing the preventable harm created by the continued use of the WCA, in favour of discredited DWP commissioned research?…
    Why is an extreme right-wing think tank with links to the Conservative Party permitted to influence future welfare policy, which is guaranteed to create preventable harm?’

    Stewart, Mo. (2017). CRIME WITHOUT PUNISHMENT WHEN KILLED BY THE STATE: a report by Mo Stewart. 10.13140/RG.2.2.28020.65922

    ‘Being food secure means being sure of your ability to secure enough food of sufficient quality and quantity, to allow you to stay healthy and participate in society.
    Food insecurity has varying degrees of severity. Early stages involve worry about whether there will be enough food, followed by compromising quality, variety and quantity of food. Going without food and experiencing hunger are most severe stages’

  164. Another Union Dividend says:

    Sinky @8.01

    Did BBC mention that the sole purpose of These Islands is to oppose self government for Scotland?

  165. Legerwood says:

    State of Emergency

    Article today in the Guardian reporting boss of Amazon UK saying there will be civil unrest after Brexit.

    Sorry no time to archive. Look it up youself.

  166. sinky says:

    When folk go on about Scotland’s deficit remind them of this:

    Don’t remember BBC Scotland discussing this at length.

    Meanwhile I had the misfortune to see Sky paper review last night

    Talking about second “peoples vote” on Brexit and talked at length about the third party at Westminster and of course it was the Lib Dems and claimed they were the only party to back Remain in Parliament.

    Why should we get this London Centric stuff rammed down out throats.

    Ee lenghth Tf

  167. Smallaxe says:

    Archived for you, my friend.

    No-deal Brexit risks ‘civil unrest’, warns Amazon’s UK boss;

  168. Dr Jim says:

    Pedigree Chum boy Kevin Hague following no success with Scotland in Union has his new *I hate the SNP* movement in something called *These Islands* which he’s made himself the chairman of in an attempt to rubbish the Growth commission report that everybody who is a Unionist insists is the SNPs blueprint on Independence, which it is in fact no such thing as it has NOT been adopted as policy and likely never will be, but still they insist and that’s OK if it gives them something to talk about

    Immediately after dog boy had his say on how wrong the report was the interview moved on to Kirsty Blackman who pointed out all of our CHUM Kevin Hagues glaring ommissions
    which we’re all sure were accidental mistakes by the dog food salesman who as we all know tries his hardest to prove he’s *A clever boy then* but unfortunately once again ended in him not being a happy *Chappie*

    Scotland is the highest taxed part of the UK they keep telling us, except that can’t be right because Barclays bank says it’s in fact cheaper than anywhere else to locate their new 2.500 jobs to in Glasgow in terms of cost, location, quality of life and skills and that’s on top of the already 2.500 jobs Barclays already have here

    All these anti SNP Independence organisations with hardly any visible people except Kevin Hague must be sticking pins in their wee eyes, and does this mean Barclays bank are smarter than the Ruth Davidson no surrender party and spokestwit and grandmaster Murdo Fraser

    I think it does

  169. Breeks says:

    Good grief.

    Rees-Mogg says it will take 50 years to see the benefits of Brexit.

    The UK has only been in the EU (EEC) for 45 years.

    Wake up and smell the horseshit all you flag waving Brexiteers.

  170. Baldeagle58 says:

    Morning Smallaxe.

    Some great links there to go with my Monday morning coffee.

    David Mundell reported to the Standards Committee…. Couldn’t happen to a nicer chap,not that anything will be done though. 🙁

  171. mr thms says:

    Thanks for your reply yestoindyref2

    Bobp, regarding the Supreme Court.

    It was created by the Constitutional Reform Act 2005

    “It provided for a Supreme Court of the United Kingdom to take over the existing role of the Law Lords as well as some powers of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, and removed the functions of Speaker of the House of Lords and Head of the Judiciary of England and Wales from the office of Lord Chancellor.”

    By creating a Supreme Court, the roll of the Lord Chancellor, which was itself created as a result of the Treaty of Union, changed.

    “In 2007, there were a number of changes to the legal system and to the office of the Lord Chancellor. Formerly, the Lord Chancellor was also the presiding officer of the House of Lords, the head of the judiciary in England and Wales, and the presiding judge of the Chancery Division of the High Court of Justice, but the Constitutional Reform Act 2005 transferred these roles to the Lord Speaker, the Lord Chief Justice, and the Chancellor of the High Court respectively.”

    It could be, the creation of a Supreme Court is a transitional arrangenent.

    Under these changes, the current constitutional arrangements could easily facillitate the dissolution of the UK.

    There is a growing list of changes that would facilitate the dissolution of the UK.

    Last week Westminster voted to leave the EU’s VAT regime. As a result of their decision, VAT can now be legally devolved to Scotland, instead of the arrangement devised under the Scotland Act 2016 for 50% of VAT revenues raised in Scotland to be assigned to the Scottish Government in 2019/20.

    Other things that coincide with 2019/20 include changes to flight paths over the UK, possible nationalisation of ScotRail and joint-ownership by Scotland and Enfland of the East Coast rail line, a move to Edinburgh of several UK Government departments, the creation by the BBC of a new television channel for Scotland, the introduction of new Hitachi and refurbished high speed Intercity trains between Scotland’s cities, and the opening of the first ‘branch’ of the publically owner V&A museum in Dundee.

    Anyone else got more ‘coincidences’ for 2019/20?

  172. Smallaxe says:

    Good morning, Baldeagle58,

    Here’s one, short but not so sweet.

    No Bannockburn coin due to Indyref;

  173. Breeks says:

    Just imagine where an Independent Scotland will be 50 years from now…

    By the way, Norway set up its Oil fund, now worth a $Trillion, in 1990. – (that’s 28 years ago if you’re Labour and not so great on arithmetic).

    If you’re old enough to remember Scotland in 1968, (don’t worry, Rees-Mogg isn’t), well that’s the timescale Rees-Mogg is working to. Bearing in mind Rees-Mogg is the Honourable Member for the 19th Century, 1968 probably is quite progressive from his perspective and values.

  174. Capella says:

    I heard the interview of Kevin Hague and Kirsty Blackman this morning and thought the presenter (Gillian Marles?) was very fair. She did describe “These Islands” as enthusiastically pro union and did point out that of course the Growth Commission wouldn’t advise following the practice of unsuccessul small countries.

    Kirsty Blackman was excellent in correcting the misleading statements of Kevin Hague. What is more unusual, she wasn’t interrupted constantly.

    A much improved and balanced approach.

  175. Ken500 says:

    Wings should sue Dunc the bare faced liar.

    More Thatchite nonsense in the Press

    Thatcher had 20% (troubles) unemployment in NI.15% in Scotland. The only area it was under 10% was London S/E. Over 3million unemployed. (3.3Million) people had to migrate to get a job. Thatcher sold off utilities now owned by foreign companies. Illegally and secretly off shored the Oil Revenues and spent them on London S/E. Building Canary Wharf and Tilbury Docks 26 miles+. ‘This must be kept secret’ written in the Official documents concerning Scottish Affairs, Conceived the Barnett Formula by Lang to take revenues out of Scotland. Shut down every manufacturing facility. Started a civil war with the miners and destroyed communities. Interest rates were 17% (inflation 18%? ). When the interest rates went up everyone encouraged to buy were losing their houses. Unaffordable. Then the Poll tax. Devised by an unelected Rothschild. Thatcher died at the Ritz in 2013. (85)

    Deregulated banking and demutialised Building Societies owned by the members. The banks took them over gambling the mortgage revenues. It caused the banking crash. Decreased the world banking leverage which caused the Banking crash. To help ‘loads of money bankers’ (1980/90’s) who fund the Tory Party. Thatcher raised £30Billion selling off nationalised industry. £18Billion selling off council houses. Major privatised the railways in 1992. The Poll tax and the Tories EU policies brought Thatcher down. The EU monetary policies.

    Hedge funds now making £Billions out of Brexit. Everyone else is paying for with loss of income, The £ depreciating. Putting up prices. One donated £90Million to the Leave campaign. Then made £300Million. On the manipulated Polls. Gerrymandering. ‘Short selling’. They should be put in jail. Raab was the director of a Leave campaign. Now supposed to be negotiating Brexit. A total shambles. There will be an election so the Tories can lose. To get them out of the mess. They would already be gone if there was any credible opposition. A complete catastrophe.

  176. Ken500 says:

    De Gaulle said ‘Non’. Vetoed UK – EU membership.

  177. ronnie anderson says:

    Dont forget to tune in folks .

  178. Smallaxe says:

    ronnie anderson,

    Turn on, tune in and drop out (of the union)

  179. starlaw says:

    They shall find in favour of Westminster or be sacked.
    The behaviour of the Judges during the miners strike left me in no doubt that politicians were pulling their strings.

  180. Greannach says:

    Has Gordon Brown intervened again for the first time yet?

  181. Thepnr says:

    The growth commission report was produced by a panel of experts in their field including these three professors.

    Prof Iain Docherty, Professor of Public Policy and Governance, University of Glasgow

    Prof Andrew Hughes Hallet, Professor of Economics and Public Policy, George Mason University and University of St Andrews

    Prof Catherine Schenk, Professor of International Economic History, University of Glasgow

    As well as these leading academics the 14 strong panel included many successful business people and experienced politicians. The report took almost two years to produce and ran to 354 pages.

    It was published on 25th May 2018 and now less than two months later a dodgy British Nationalist organisation led by a dog food salesmen has come along to rubbish it and as a treat he is given a platform by the BBC to publicise his opinion.

    This is ridiculous, it seems that if you are a British Nationalist then any old shite you have to say will get aired by the BBC.

    Ditch your licence, let them know your displeasure at their spreading of British Nationalist propaganda.

  182. Smallaxe says:

    Here is today’s order paper. The Commons sits at 2:30 pm;

    ‘Whitewashing the White Helmets’ – Peter Ford;

  183. Dan Huil says:

    Time is fast approaching, regardless of the court’s decision, for the Holyrood government to make serious moves to safeguard the sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

    Holyrood must not be shackled by Westminster’s rules.

  184. Thepnr says:

    A horror story from the Guardian but one with a ring of truth to it.

    Don’t wish for a new party to end the Brexit mess. It will be a far-right one

    Save yourselves Scotland from this nightmare and just leave.

  185. Ian Foulds says:

    “Another Union Dividend says:
    23 July, 2018 at 8:15 am
    Sinky @8.01

    Did BBC mention that the sole purpose of These Islands is to oppose self government for Scotland?”

    Maybe instead of us always saying we want Independence for Scotland, we should be indeed talking of Self government for Scotland?

    Extraneous matters can then be individually addressed thereafter.

  186. Thepnr says:


    They really must be getting desperate and are very worried.

    “Today’s main business is a general debate on strengthening the union.”

  187. Smallaxe says:

    Thepnr, (Alert reader)

    Well spotted, that’s why I posted it.

  188. Jack Murphy says:

    OT. CLARA PONSATI at Edinburgh Sheriff Court TODAY MONDAY:

    “….Sheriff Nigel Ross told Ponsati: “As you know the Arrest Warrant has been withdrawn and it just remains for me to discharge you.”

    The decision to rescind the warrants means Ms Ponsati and her colleagues are no longer threatened with extradition.

    However, they will still face legal proceedings if they return to Spain.

    Lawyer Aamer Anwar, who has been representing Ms Ponsati, said it could leave members of the former Catalan government in permanent exile…….” 🙁

    On-line STV NEWS:

  189. ronnie anderson says:

    Smallaxe ( tune in drop out ) lol U auld hippy U lol ,we can all do the hippy hippy shake shake & shake Westminster off when the time comes .

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