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Our best offer

Posted on July 21, 2018 by

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    1. 21 07 18 08:56

      Our best offer | speymouth

    180 to “Our best offer”

    1. Malky says:

      Another piece of graphical brilliance to sum up the huge disconnect between the English government’s view of itself and how the rest of us see them. Thanks.

    2. Bradford Millar says:

      That about sums it up for the one dimensional tories …. hard brexit equals indyref2 win win solution then step back into the EU

    3. Sharney Dubs says:

      Perfect portrait of the facts.

      Rock on Indy2

    4. doug_bryce says:

      The basic problem is that it was never clear what Brexit meant due to lack of leave manifesto. To not define one option in a binary referendum was negligent and careless.

      Now : Future trading relationship was always going to be one of these options…

      1) EEA (like CH, Norway or Iceland)
      2) Customs Union (like Turkey)
      3) No deal / 3rd Party

      All of these are very different types of Brexit.
      However what did the UK vote for ? What is the will of the people ?

      At each and every stage the Tories have made a complete and utter kunt of implementing Brexit.
      IMHO this is because they have never been honest about the future trade options. Rather than be realistic with voters about 3 options above they perpetuated the lie we could leave EU but maintain single market benefits.

      There was never going to be a bespoke deal – the idea of a negotiation was Boris Johnson fantasy politics.
      Rather : it was always a case of agree divorce bill then decide which existing future trade model you want.

      If people are disappointed with Brexit it is because they naively believed Tory / UKIP lies leading to false expectations. We cant be in and out of the EU at the same time.

    5. Ken500 says:

      The Tories will have to have a GE they will lose to get out of the shamble. The Tories have already cheated and lied helped by Labour, the LibDems and others. DUP criminals. All completely useless. No one wants the poison chalice.

      Baillie, Davidson etc all at it again. With the broken abacus. Can’t count or read a balance sheet. Who would believe the nonsense? What is costing Scotland more is Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident, the illegal wars. The mismanagement of the Scottish revenues by Westminster. The McCrone Report kept hidden.

      Oil & Gas sector taxed too high when prices had fallen. Costing £Billions and thousands of jobs. Scotland could have had full employment. The fish industry throwing dead fish back for years. Instead of using bigger nets like Norway. The farming sector. Mad cow came from Alabama cost £Billions. For over ten years. The Scottish EU Cap payments were illegally taken by the UK Treasury and given to wealthier farmers in the South. Scotland as part of the UK receives the lowest CAP payments in the EU.

      £Billions have been lost to Scotland because of Westminster secrecy and lies. Iraq, Dunblane and Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years. They hide there criminal activities under the Official Secrets Act.

      Now Brexit which will cost Scotland £Billions. The unionists Party liars support it. The Tories would be gone but the unionists in Westminster support them. They either do not turn up to vote or abstain. The bigger bunch of useless incompetents ever put on the planet. They are a complete bunch of imbeciles. The state of them. Trying to take the UK out of the EU. It would be back in within two years.

      Trying to use the migration crisis they have caused to destroy the world economy. They are already sanctioning and starving people. The psycho bastards. The complete and utter shambles.

      Thank goodness for the SNP Gov mitigating their damage and for caring.

      Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Scotland Independent in the EU. Vote for prosperity, equality, fairness, peace and justice.

    6. Ken500 says:

      As for the likes of Raab and Williamson and the rest. They are completely inadequate. May is just a total embarrassment going from crisis to crisis of their own making. It would be laughable if it was not so tragic. A complete and utter shambles. They do not have a clue what they are doing. Neither does anyone else,

    7. Tom says:

      Random rants – I was going to use a pretend HTML tag ‘random-rants’, but it was being interpreted as a real tag.

      Every week, just when you think they can’t get any worse, they do. The scary thing is, this is the future of the country they’re trashing because of ideological differences. Can’t they see the damage that they’re doing? I’m almost beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that they are just trashing the country so they can make lots of money by owning the private companies that will be set up when we can no longer have the health service.

      Sometimes I think, they’ll sort something out before April’s fool day next year and then I think nuh, they won’t and it will be the planes not flying scenario. And before you even think about schadenfreude, even if Scotland is independent, we’ll be dragged down with them.

      I don’t know if I’m repeating myself, but I remember before the EU ref, watching something, it might have been Question time or it might have been one of the general debates, but at one point a pro-leave person said, ‘We can stay in the single market’ and then later on said ‘We’ll be able to get rid of freedom of movement’. Not one person pulled him up on it by pointing out the EU wouldn’t allow both.

      In the same debate (and I use the term loosely) I also remember shouting at the telly ‘What about Ireland?’ cause nobody was even thinking about it.

      Some genuine questions.
      1) See those Henry VIII powers that Theresa was going to use (I can’t remember if she did or not), well would they apply to Scotland because Henry VIII was never King of Scotland and so the law that allowed these preceded the act of Union and might not have applied to us.

      2) Since Health is devolved and there are 4 health services, when we make a trade deal with the US (because that’s going to save us), one of the things the septic-tanks are going to want is access to health. Now assuming the Tories are still in power, then they’re going to try and negotiate those away, but they won’t be able to (as it is devolved). So what will happen? Will they just centralise health again?

    8. galamcennalath says:

      More genius from Chris.

      People divide into two groups on their perception of Brexit …

      1) 99% of the world’s population include most Scots who see the reality

      2) some of the UK population who either can’t see, won’t see, or pretend not to see the reality

      The EU hold ALL the cards. The UK has nothing to negotiate with. The only solutions available are those which the EU has put on the table for almost two years. Their position is clear, rock solid, unchanging, and they will stick with it.

      Here’s yet another excellent and accurate appraisal of where the UK has put itself from foreign press …

      … the contrast between UK and foreign media is truly staggering.

    9. Calum McKay says:

      Sturgeon’s strategy is being proved right, let them tear themselves apart and then strike.

      It is also clear labour are in as much chaos as the tories and Corbyn is a brexiteer.

      English politics has an utterly toxic impact on its neighbours!

    10. louis.b.argyll says:

      Brexit = Hedge funds and venture capitalists waiting in the wings, drooling over a partial collapse of our economy, with cash offshore ready to scoop up businesses and farms and contracts.

      The EU was after these ill-gotten-gains years ago, and if it wasn’t for Brexit these offshore fund managers would now be banned.

    11. Muscleguy says:

      I agree, the EU is perfectly prepared to let us stew in a country with no agreed standards on just about anything. No transport links, no imports, no exports, including power topups from France which means power cuts and brownouts. EU citizens stranded here, UK folk stranded in the continent and everywhere else.

      Then it will dawn that we need access to the standards bodies, but they are all EU entities now. So we will need to negotiate with the EU for that access. Having been rowed across the channel the negotiating team will meat the EU who will, like sad but stern grownups, take the little children through reality one more time.

      If all that doesn’t make folk in Scotland wake up to the necessity of a Yes vote nothing will. All the talk of a ‘people’s Brexit referendum’ etc is just causing people to clutch at a straw of hope that Brexit can be stopped. Only when all those hopes are dashed will they come round. Edinburgh voted more than 70% to Remain. They will find out how much they care about that.

      It’s a strange thing to wish for this scenario, but having chapped doors in indyref1 I cannot see anything else working. People have to be jolted out of their comfortable reflex ‘it will all work out alright’. But ScotGov need to find their balls over IndyRef2 soon.

    12. Clootie says:

      Great work as always Chris!

      As with all politics…follow the money. Why are individual millionaires supporting a hard Brexit plan. It is not because of civic duty. It is simply a monopoly game in which they become even wealthier.
      It has always been so. The Tory Party attracts very rich donors because they look after them.

      …and what about the impact on the rest of the population…they simply don’t care!

      What puzzles me is how they continue to convince so many Scots to continue to support a union designed to benefit the few.

      Sadly the chaos of hard Brexit will not be the worst part. That will come when the doors are flung open to American exploitation on healthcare , food standards , etc….and once again the few will make even more money as the “greed is good” culture ramps up.

      The real purpose of Brexit is to deliver a right wing state, a rebirth of the old Empire. Unfortunately the centuries of conditioning is still effective…so many still think they should accept “our betters” running our nation for us as we are Shite!

      The Nation of enlightenment has become a Nation of doubters full of insecurity…that change was engineered. That is the legacy of the 300 year Union. It is the one YOU will pass on to your children and grandchildren…unless YOU vote for change.

    13. Dan Huil says:

      And, of course, arrogant and destructive Westminster blames the EU because the shredder was made in Belgium.

    14. Danny says:

      The most frustrating thing about Brexit is the so called “Deadlines”.

      They seem to go on forever. We reach a deadline and before you know it ANOTHER “Deadline” is made.

      October is meant to be THE Deadline to beat all deadlines, but some smart arse suggested yesterday that that deadline could be moved to December.

      Then there is Article 50, this same guy said yesterday that Article 50 could actually be extended, my heart sank.

      It is why Nicola must tell them to shove their deadlines right up their “Ronson Lighter” and announce the date for IndyRef2 in the Autumn, as she said she would at the beginning of this year.

      No more deadlines Nicola, it’s time to go for it, the people of Scotland will be right behind you.

    15. Colin H. says:

      Spot on – it’s this narrative framing that’s been annoying me recently too. The UK has the choice of a set menu, not à la carte. At best they can maybe choose which condiments they want.

      All this talk about “the right deal” and “negotiations” is nonsense, but the brexiters (and media) are happy to propagate it in order to maintain tension and conflict, and to blame the EU when their unworkable nonsense is rebuffed. For example, um, the front page of todays right wing papers.

      The frustrating, hair-pulling, teeth-grinding part of it is that for anyone who cares to look into it, this is all SO DAMN OBVIOUS. But many Leavers are happy to be wilfully misled to in order to justify their choice and reinforce their prejudices. Basically, their justification has eroded down to “the EU don’t like it, so it must be good”.

    16. Dr Jim says:

      Post Brexit hundreds of thousands of jobs will be lost and the 4 countries of the British Isles will suffer a deep depression that could take up to 50 years from which to recover

      These are the facts and they are undisputed!

      Yet there are people in Scotland still refusing to take the option of becoming a normal self determining country taking its place in the world alongside every other country and their only excuse for doing so is crossed fingers by a bunch of nut jobs in England who showed them a bus with made up numbers on the side that every single economist blew out of the water and the nut jobs themselves later admitted they lied about and now they’re admitting there’ll still be immigrants from somewhere else, just not EU immigrants and the folk who wanted all this stuff still want it even though the nut jobs admit it was all made up and won’t happen quite the way they promised faithfully in the first place

      Yet still they insist we’re better together

      This is not an ideology problem, this is a mental health problem

    17. HandandShrimp says:

      I think if you asked the UK Cabinet what the UK Brexit plan is you would get 35 different answers.

      …and there are only 23 of them.

    18. Ian McCubbin says:

      Think I might send this to Jewemy my favourite twitter troll.
      Anything to get him serially sending out meems.
      A good cartoon ??

    19. Les Wilson says:

      I think this is a great innovative idea to further Indy2 votes.
      Have a look.

    20. Cuilean says:

      As Brexit looms ever closer the right wing press have set the scene to demonise the EU, just as they demonised Salmond during Indyref1.

      Prepare to be hit by a tsunami of Mail & Express extreme right jingoism.

      The ‘Blitz Spirit’ on steroids will emerge in the MSM rising like a phoenix from the Brexit ashes.

      WE shall be cast as the ‘Plucky little island standing alone’. Endurance & defiance against an external threat; this time, not Nazi Germany, but the EU. Backs to the wall, the plucky brits will defy Johnny Foreigner.

      This is the propaganda we will face in Indyref2. The SNP will be cast by the MSM & the BBC as latter day ("Tractor" - Ed)s. Nicola Sturgeon will be a modern day ‘Tokyo Rose’.

      There will be very clear ‘Blood & Soil’ nationalists in the Indyref2 fight to come and it will be all from the Yoon side.

      Underestimate it at our peril.

    21. Luigi says:

      HandandShrimp says:
      21 July, 2018 at 11:02 am
      I think if you asked the UK Cabinet what the UK Brexit plan is you would get 35 different answers.

      If you ask one member of the Cabinet what the UK Brexit plan is 35 times, you will get 35 different answers.

      They haven’t a scooby. It’s a complete and utter shambles.

    22. Abulhaq says:

      Barnier….Je regrette Monsieur, on n’est plus anglophone ici!
      (Sorry, English no longer spoken here!)

    23. Robert Peffers says:

      @Calum McKay says: 21 July, 2018 at 9:26 am:

      ” … It is also clear labour are in as much chaos as the tories and Corbyn is a brexiteer.”

      Tell you what, Calum, way back in the mid 1940s I was just a schoolboy but was even then interested in politics. WWII was just ended and the United Kingdom was still under wartime austerity measures like rationing:-

      “Fourteen years of food rationing in Britain ended at midnight on 4 July 1954, when restrictions on the sale and purchase of meat and bacon were lifted. This happened nine years after the end of the war.”

      There wasn’t much entertainments and TV had never actually got to Scotland so you had to make your own entertainments and pastimes. My main one being reading. However, even that was difficult as the publishing business hadn’t got going again.

      So I would spend my Saturday mornings trawling round the many second hand shops & bookshops in Edinburgh Old Town looking for anything of interest I could afford. If I managed to find anything and it was a fine day I would make my way to Greyfriar’s Graveyard where it was peaceful and quiet an sit there reading.

      There was an old gentleman who also often sat there reading and we struck up a conversation about old books. The Old gent turned out to be a distinguished, semi-retired, King’s Council with a life long interest in Scottish History – an interest I shared. The old man was also a life-long supporter of he Scottish Nationalist movement and I learned a great deal from that old Nationalist but probably the most valuable thing I learned was that the Parliament of the so called United Kingdom was, and always had been, a sham.

      There never really was a party political system nor a democracy in Westminster. It was always just window dressing to fool the Hoi Polloi into believing anything other than the same old Germanic royalty and aristocracy were running things to suit the royalty and aristocracy and Westminster always was, “The Westminster Establishment” – The political wing of the elite ruling classes that have ruled most of the British Isles at least as long as documented history records.

      Westminster is, and always has been a false-front to fool the British under classes into believing they are a sovereign people who democratically elect a government of the people’s choice.

      The legality is somewhat different. First of all, under the, three country, Kingdom of England’s “Rule of Law”, the Monarch of he Kingdom of England, that annexed the Principality of Wales in 1284 and the Kingdom of Ireland in 1542, is legally sovereign and thus the people(s), of the three Kingdom of England countries are Their Majesty of England’s subjects.

      However, in 1688, the parliament of England, (then the English aristocracy), revolted against the rightful monarch of England, (who also wore the Independent Kingdom of Scotland’s still independent Crown, they deposed that monarch and imported yet another of the Germanic elite royals of Europe to become monarchs of the Kingdom of England. On the condition that they legally delegated their sovereign powers to the Parliament of the Kingdom of England but Scotland, in 1688 was still an independent kingdom and thus the English Rule of law could not legally be applied to Scotland where the people of Scotland had been legally sovereign from at least 1320 by the Declaration of Arbroath.

      So the situation at Westminster was/is that the Monarch of England, Wales and Ireland remains legally sovereign and all their subjects in the Kingdom of England are legally their Majesty’s subjects.

      Nowhere is there any evidence, legal or otherwise, that their Majestys’ of England are legally sovereign in Scotland. Furthermore, the Germanic elite rulers and the English aristocracy heirs are still sitting in the House of Lords as Hereditary peers today and the Queen of England is still legally sovereign under the English Rule of law That does not apply under the Scottish rule of law.

      So Westminster is actually, “The Unionist Establishment”, and all three Unionist political parties are parts of, “The Establishment”, and have throughout history, always stood shoulder to shoulder at times when, “The Establishment”, is under threat.

      In both World Wars the first Westminster action, (after declaring war), was for Her/His Majesty to call in Their Majesty’s [rime Minister and command him/her to form an Establishment coalition as heir Majesty’s wartime Government.

      We see the same effects today when the Scottish Government is a threat to the Union – the entire Westminster Establishment, including their media stand shoulder to shoulder against the enemy of the Union.

      There are no political parties in the union against Holyrood there is only unionists against The People of Scotland. The party leaders at Westminster and those in their Scotland branch offices are just unionists against Scotland.

    24. galamcennalath says:

      Luigi says:

      They haven’t a scooby.

      Yes, I just don’t get the far right über nationalist mindset.

      On the one hand they seem so thick, dumb, blinkered, ignorant, adrift from reality, etc..

      However many of these leading Hard Brexiteers are successful and rich. I think the level of their self-belief must be off the scale. They ooze entitlement and superiority. They have abosolutely no doubt that they are special and deserving of every privilege.

      And then we have a raft of wannabes and hingers-oan who aspire to what they perceive as success.

      It’s all based on a suspension of morals, decency, and caring about their fellow citizens, because of course they aren’t ‘fellow’, they are a group apart.

      All of this makes them bloody dangerous in every way imaginable.

    25. Robert Peffers says:


      News Item on the text service:-

      Extra Demand on Highland Foodbank Network.

      Blythswood Care’s Highland Foodbank has seen an increased demand with children not having access to free school meals. They are asking for donations of tinned and dry food.

    26. Highland Wifie says:

      Be in no doubt. If Brexit happens as per the “plan” (doesn’t look like they have one but they do) and we are open to US asset strippers, everyday life will be nothing like you’ve ever seen before.

      If you’ve ever been in a US supermarket you’ll know that real food is prohibitively expensive and you can’t buy a loaf of bread that’s not sweet enough to substitute for pudding. It takes hours to read every label as you scan through the enormous lists of chemicals that have been added. No helpful lists of possible allergens, no indication of whether it’s high in fat or sugar – hint, it is.
      You need a mortgage to buy European cheese and if you’re looking for free range eggs there’s one brand and the price will make you baulk.
      On the plus side corn tortillas are dirt cheap and oat cheerios are better than our sugar laden variety.

      If it’s the health service you’re looking for and you’re lucky enough to have decent insurance, it still costs $300 on top if you’re unlucky enough to have to go to the emergency room. Yes every time your little one has an accident another $300. If you can’t afford that you can always go to an urgent care centre instead. That’s only $50. Every prescription item charged at cost.
      Yessiree that is the WM vision for us. While they rake in the money from their “deals” we can just get on with it. No more of this namby pamby state funded stuff. If we can’t pay our way that’s just tough.

      We have a choice and those of us who are awake know which option we have to choose.
      The rest need to wake up.

    27. Artyhetty says:

      Brilliant image says all that anyone needs to know about Tory and Labour Brexit they have never had any intention of a plan. They are consumed by money, lots and lots of it, preferably other peoples’ money.


      ‘Will they centralise health again?’. ‘Health’ has never been ‘centralised’ and any powers removed from the Scottish parliament would not be centralising them, it would be reserving them, ie removing from another countries’ jurisdiction, a coup in effect.

      Scotland’s NHS has always been independent from England’s and rUK, as has education, and law. We have what’s called Scots Law.

      I have met in the past couple of days, three Scottish people who it was great to chat with about mainly Brexit. One lovely woman at our allotments, when I mentioned food security, she was saying what we all know, what a disaster Brexit is and will be. She was though, thinking Scotland maybe ‘couldn’t do it’, re independence, ie, too poor. So we talked for ages about that. She said she ‘should read more about it’. Hope she visits WOS. Working in the royal mail, it sounded like she isn’t alone in her thinking, and she said they have an attitude of ‘divide and conquer’ at her work. ‘Pitting people against each other’. How scary is that then, who knows what tactics are being used even in workplaces!

      The others, taxi drivers, who were both sceptical about Scotland’s chances in the EU and out of the UK, one said that Brexit might not be as scary as they are saying because, ‘they said these things about devolution’, ie it would be a disaster, but it turned out OK. He knows someone working at Australia bank in Scotland, the bank is talking about moving their operations out of Scotland and instead to London! Doesn’t sound ‘OK’.

      I didn’t know there was an Australia bank in Scotland.

      So the jist is, Brexit might be OK, and it’s all scare mongering and Scotland can’t do independence.

      The onslaught of propaganda is brainwashing some, perhaps too many and it’s scary.

      More Blue Books, or yellow or whatever colour…and info on how people do not have to pay the tx tax if they have the internet, there are many ways to get your information. The UKgov are working on people, it’s subtle, and it’s dangerous. They rely on people not making informed choices at the ballot box. They rely on hearsay, and soundbites and ultimately, lies, dressed up as information.

    28. Calum McKay says:

      Robert Peffers says:

      “There are no political parties in the union against Holyrood there is only unionists against The People of Scotland. The party leaders at Westminster and those in their Scotland branch offices are just unionists against Scotland.”

      I could not agree more!

      The Scottish unionist representatives in both Holyrood and westminster all see for themselves week in week out Scotland is not being served by this union and it is to the people’s determent we remain in it.

      If the Scottish Government were in the shambles the westminster government is in, it would have been suspended by westminster long ago.

      Topically, I look at the Jo Swinson’s incident this week, crude lies and deception used to rub out her voting on an issue that will make every one of her constituents worse off. Worse off when they and her have made their views clear on brexit. Yet still she has not the intelligence, courage or wit to see this is part of the con game that westminster is.

      This westminster con game is perpetuated by all Scottish MPs, including the SNP who take their seats in that house.

      The SNP walk out worked, people could see Scotland was being ignored. I have come to the opinion that a permanent walk out is the only way forward. A risky strategy, but what have we to loose?

      Playing by unionist rules will not result in freedom, we need to play by our own democratic rules and stick two fingers up to westminster!

    29. stewartb says:

      Artyhetty @ 12:53 pm

      You wrote: “The others, taxi drivers, who were both sceptical about Scotland’s chances in the EU and out of the UK, one said that Brexit might not be as scary as they are saying because, ‘they said these things about devolution’, ie it would be a disaster, but it turned out OK. ….. So the jist is, Brexit might be OK, and it’s all scare mongering and Scotland can’t do independence.”

      Your post is a stark reminder of the multiple facets of the case making that is likely to be required to achieve a substantial shift in views in favour of independence under present circumstances. Namely, to convince voters in Scotland that:

      1) the UK’s exit from the EU will be ‘bad’ and/or bring greater economic, social and environmental uncertainty for people and businesses in Scotland .. as well as for those in the rUK – and not just in the short but also the longer term i.e. for our young people.

      2) in contrast, Scotland’s independence will deliver a better AND a more certain future than the one in prospect for Scotland if we remain within a UK out of the EU.

      3) moreover, Scotland’s independence will deliver a better and more certain future whether we subsequently opt for our own EU membership OR some other relationship with the EU – fundamentally, an independent Scotland is both feasible and the safer, more certain proposition. Importantly, it will give us (and our young people) in Scotland the agency that we currently do not possess and which may well be further diminished if we remain in a UK.

      4) and actually Scotland’s independence can also deliver a better and more certain future in terms of our relationship with the resulting independent Kingdom of England with Wales and NI – tackling the British Nationalist fear agenda around access for an independent Scotland to the greater England market.

      For all of the above, and given the various points made in your own post, it seems that it will be highly personal value judgements on an independent Scotland’s strengths and opportunities as they will directly impact individual/family well-being versus perspectives on risks and threats to this well-being in a ‘Scotland still in the Union’ that need to be influenced.

      My sense is that for those yet to be convinced, it will be perspectives on threats (rather than opportunities) to personal well-being that will be more influential initially in terms of stimulating the doubters’ re-appriasal of the case for independence.

    30. Brian Powell says:


      Perhaps the taxi-drivers could be asked to list what they think will happen with Brexit, the details, not the getting back control bit.

    31. Tinto Chiel says:

      You caught Raab C Brexit’s phizog perfectly, Chris.

      Not long now before Mr Barnier, with some regret yet understandable relief, quietly shepherds a delusional John Bull down the panelled corridor to the darkened library, where a bottle of single malt and a loaded service revolver lie on the desk.

      JB’s last words: “This’ll show ’em we’re not bluffing!”

    32. Daisy Walker says:

      The below is a quote from Richard North’ todays essay. (Please note Efta/EEA is his preferred choice – not necessarily mine.)

      ‘All this pre-supposes that a “no deal” scenario would be a disaster – and of sufficient impact to motivate politicians to seek remedies that lie in the direction of working with our European neighbours. In the febrile atmosphere of the moment, though, we could see sentiment turn the other way, as the blame for any hardship is focused on the European Union.

      If that led to an upswelling of hostility, we could find the nation embracing isolation, despite the consequences. Once such a mood takes hold, policy is not necessarily going to be driven by rational people.

      Furthermore, as the EU and its Member States are force to invest in systems and infrastructure to deal with the UK as a third country, they will become increasingly less interested in helping us to find solutions to what they will regard as self-inflicted wounds. The post-exit window of opportunity, therefore, may be very short.

      One hopes that that prospect could focus minds over the next few months, lending urgency to the search for a workable solution to Brexit. But, as we see from the latest contributions from Mrs May and M. Barnier, the gap seems to be so great as to be unbridgeable.

      Despite that, we can all live in hope that a last-minute solution will be found. But only fools will embrace the current situation or look upon it with any degree of optimism. We are sleepwalking into a political crisis, the like of which has not been experienced in living memory.

      From our point of view, we must never accept that a “no deal” is the end of the matter, or abandon hope that, some day, we can get things moving in the direction of the Efta/EEA option. This requires an intensification of effort, to overcome the ignorance and misinformation that has so damaged perception of the option.

      But this is the time also to think seriously about personal survival. It is not at all alarmist to be thinking in terms of stockpiling food and other essentials, including torches, and the basics in life from toilet paper to washing up liquid and even, closer to Brexit day, bottled water.

      The very fact that we are thinking in such terms, though, underlines the extraordinary situation in which we find ourselves. In a time of plenty, and in the absence of war or natural catastrophe, to be thinking in terms of shortages of food and other essentials says volumes about how badly the Brexit process has been managed so far.

      And, for this, there must be a political price to pay. Come what may, things can never be the same again. There must be a reckoning – the sooner the better while there are still opportunities for peaceful change.’

      Richard North’s blog is very much coming at things from an Englishman’s perspective, unlike ourselves on this blog. However, he does not shy away from bad news facts even if they undermine his own preferred choice, for which I admire him.

      I’ve recommended his site to numerous No voters.

      Wow, though, for the concept of stock piling emergency supplies, in 2018, in peacetime and times of plenty, and for this to be a realistic , sensible and practical thing to assess, plan and implement. Wow.

      Brexshit Madness – And all because the Lairdies – like Tax Havens.

    33. Tom says:

      Thanks Artyhetty & Muscleguy – my worry is even if independent and with EU support, we’ll be in the same situation as Ireland. No direct contact with the rest of Europe, everything will have to travel not via England. Therefore we’d be buggered as well.

      At least we export electricity to England. They’ll be having blackouts before we would, and I remember the 70s.

      And my comment about Health, I feel that if the UK as a whole were to make a deal with the US, then they would want access to the health service. And that ain’t happening as far as I am concerned, not the Scottish one at least.

    34. Robert Peffers says:

      @Highland Wifie says: 21 July, 2018 at 12:46 pm:

      ” … Be in no doubt. If Brexit happens as per the “plan” (doesn’t look like they have one but they do) and we are open to US asset strippers, everyday life will be nothing like you’ve ever seen before.”

      You got that right, Highland Wifie, but you may not have hit upon the real horror of what is heading our way when the BR UKEXITEERS get their plan finalised.

      In the first place they know what they are doing for the truth is they will get what they want by default. That is they get what they want by not getting what they are asking for. Their plan is to fail to get a deal acceptable to the EU and then they will blame their failure to do so upon the EU for not giving in to their blackmail threats to leave.

      You are, though correct that they intend to sell off everything left that really does not belong to the Government of the UK for governments are supposedly the representatives, (i.e. the servants of the people), but Westminster has always acted as if we, the people are their servants and they our masters.

      So their plan is to sell off all that remains of the people of the United Kingdom’s assets and put the profits into private pockets and those profits will not be in the general publics pockets.

      I cite here just one, and by no means the worst example, of life on the streets of arguably the wealthiest city in the USA. The city that contains the mansions of the Hollywood Stars and the companies that made them stars. Los Angeles.

      In that city they had a small area known as, “Skid Row”, but which has now spread right across the city and not just one small area of down and outs. My initial curiosity was begun by the Computer Game, made in Scotland, called Grand Theft Auto V, (five). I thought that the scenes in the game were very much exaggerated so decided to search out the real Los Angeles, “Skid Row”.

      I had in mind that all USA cities have their very own Skid Rows and I’ve checked out a few of those too.

      I am appalled that, if anything, Grand Theft Auto 5 has under-exaggerated the reality for I could actually identify some of the under-Freeway areas depicted in the game with areas in the documentaries I sought out and watched and the reality was worse.

      Here is just one I chose totally at random and I haven’t re-watched it this time to be able to say if it is among the worst or not. So watch this and see what is heading our way post BR UKEXIT and the open invitation to the USA to take over our publicly owned assets.

    35. Col says:

      Should we Scots be making more of demanding our own broadcasting? If westminster once again refuse we should go to the UN and say that England’s parliamentarians are refusing Scotland its voice using their inbuilt majority. We must decolonise ourselves or we may find that westminster taking ever more drastic measures to hold onto our resources whilst suppressing us possibly out of existence with the help of our so called unionists.

    36. Capella says:

      Congratulations Chris. I didn’t think it was possible to satirise this shambles of a mess any longer. But you managed it. Your holidays are working!

    37. yesindyref2 says:

      It is fun though engaging with either really dumb unionists or outright trolls, whichever they are. But you also find out stuff if you have time to follow through and can be bothered. Better than working all the same.

      There was talk of the Celine on a thread, Ireland’s new ferry it’s put on to be ready for Brexit and transporting goods direct to the EU rather than through the UK. The Celine can take 700 trailers, and the lanes are 8 km long in total.

      His claim was that it could only take 0.1% of Ireland’s exports, even a quick check makes that more like 8% to 10%, though it could be less as that’s through its ports in total, and you do get air freight (expensive).

      Then his claim is that a trailer could only take 100 Kg of oranges. Mmm, think about that, you have a trailer going on a ferry from Zeebrugge to Dublin, having got there in the first place taken by a cab and taken away by a cab to somewhere once unloaded by the port shuttles.

      Then you have 1kg of oranges for £2 each (couldn’t find a price quickly that’s satsumas from Morrisons). But that’s not what Morrisons pay, say £1 for a total of £100 that Morrisons have paid – for a whole trailer load of 100Kg?

      Don’t know the cost of a trailer from Zeebrugge to Dublin but it must be £2,000 or upwards, last figure I knew was £800 for I think Wemyss Bay to Rothesay a few years back.

      I’d said a trailer can take 30 tonnes, and some are 44 and you can get more. Just for interest I worked out how many boxed oranges you could get for say a 90 cubic metre capacity, and the total comes to 36 tonnes from an online guide. It’d be less as they’d be on pallets, but 36 tonnes is just a little more than 100 Kg = 0.1 tonne. Out by a factor of 360.

      Where on earth do they get these people? Kindergarten?

    38. Hamish100 says:

      Calum McKay

      I have come to the opinion that a permanent walk out is the only way forward. A risky strategy, but what have we to loose?

      Everything. There will be some crunch votes at Westminster and if the SNP are not there the brexiters will win. Maybe that’s what is wanted? Surely not?

    39. Robert Peffers says:

      @Calum McKay says: 21 July, 2018 at 2:21 pm:

      ” … This westminster con game is perpetuated by all Scottish MPs, including the SNP who take their seats in that house.”

      Not true, Calum, The SNP members at Westminster are far and away the hardest working group in Westminster but you have to watch the Westminster live web video to see just how hard they do work for you are not going to find out from the MSM. SMSM or the state funded and state supporting broadcasters.

      Anyway – to get down to brass tacks. There are only two methods that have ever proved to gain any dominion country their independence and the vast majority of the Globe has at one time or another been under Westminster dominion. a.k.a. domination.

      Even the USA itself was a Westminster colony. Those two ways can be viewed side by side in the country of Ireland and one of those ways is far from being finalised and has just slipped back into the other way.

      There is the way taken by India and the total death toll in that continent can never be known and as for the USA, and North America in general the native Americans will never regain their country for it was the European immigrants that fought and died to free themselves from Westminster domination.

      As did the immigrant populations of such as New Zealand. So there you go – armed combat and revolution has never won any former colony their freedom from Westminster. Those colonies that won freedom had first killed off the native populations or caused massive deaths among their native peoples as on the Indian continent and in Africa.

      Now look at the country of Ireland. The North is still under Westminster control but only around 50% of the population are of proper Irish descent. These were the ones NOT parts of the several, “Plantations”, of Scots, Welsh and English people into Ireland who drove the Irish from their lands.

      The south fared little better and armed conflict went on for centuries before the south declared their independence. That independence was not achieved until it was officially declared a republic in 1949, following the Republic of Ireland Act 1948.

      So there you go – if you want to see armed conflict and Scots dying on our streets then try and find someone other than the SNP and you will have a really hard job finding those who will volunteer to die for Scotland.

      Especially as we are within touching distance with the SNP. And you do not need to look very far to see what will happen when a government in power is challenged by a colony demanding, peacefully, their independence.

      Look at Spain and their colony of Catalonia.

    40. twathater says:

      Sorry for long post but hopefully worth it

      As everyone and their dug knows brexshit is going to have a catastrophic effect on businesses and employment , where are the business leaders , employers and trade unionists meeting and supporting OUR SNP SG’S sensible pragmatic suggestions .

      Are business leaders , employers and unions HAPPY that this shower of self serving imbeciles are willing and eager to trash and destroy their very livelihood, are they HAPPY that their profits and jobs are going to be decimated , are the unions who are SUPPOSED to protect their members HAPPY that 10s of thousands of jobs will be lost .

      If the answer to all this is NO they are not HAPPY , well why the feck are they NOT approaching and SUPPORTING the SNP SG ,

      Why are business leaders , employers and unions not vehemently and openly calling these rabid incompetent tories and liebour out on this clusterf*ck

      Business leaders , employers , employees , trade unions ,you may have your reservations regarding Scotland’s ability to be independent , but the forcasted decimation and destruction of brexshit’s impact on trade would set aside my reservations

      I would like to see Nicola and her top team visiting more businesses and speaking to the employees and trade unions , outlining her plans for remaining in the EU and taking questions on people’s fears , also exposing the lies about job protection , closure of job centres , income tax and where the money goes , explain the handcuffs of devolution and the truth about the power grab

      If businesses are really interested in preserving their market , profits and employees they would willingly take part

    41. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s been reports that show all these including businesses and business organisations are keeping a very close eye on it all, but until there’s some certainty they’re going to – rightly – mark their time while making general concerns known.

      There may come a tipping point …

    42. David McCann says:

      A Pratstick might also come in handy!

    43. twathater says:

      @ yesindyref2 4.30pm

      I know what you are saying , but you as a businessman explore anything and everything that will bring you success and discount the negatives , what I am saying is although businesses are monitoring the situation they should also be open to the alternatives , they should be inviting Nicola to their premises to explain to them and their employees what the SG are doing and proposing to protect their jobs and employment

      We complain that not enough people get to hear of the advantages of independence , this would be a chance to get the wider message out , tell the TRUTH about the power grab , allow people to question and raise their concerns , we know how Nicola charms people , she can also explain the imminent danger to our SNHS and Scottish Water from a TTIP type deal , and it allows converts who will then take the message further , it would also allow the employer to realise what she is attempting to do to protect his/hers business and Scotland

    44. gus1940 says:

      Anna Soubry was in brilliant form on last night’s The Last Leg.

      She backs Ken Clark to replace MAY and the audience were right behind her.

      KC and her could assemble a reasonably sensible cabinet with the likes of Amber Rudd and others and kill Brexit stone dead for keeps.

    45. yesindyref2 says:

      I think the organisations themselves are having some talks with the SG, but businesses mostly don’t like to do politics. Even my own micro business, I steer clear of Indy. There again I do put the Saltire on my products and websites.

    46. Effijy says:

      Westminster has been a mix of embarrassment, humiliation, incompetence, and stupidity in dealing with Brexit.

      The many different parties, and splits within parties, all claiming they know what people wanted when they voted?

      The way information in the UK Media is twisted, distorted, and buried, the voters had 2 main sides, those that hate foreigners and thought the NHS might actually get that £350,000,000 per week off of their Battle Bus, and those who could see right through the lies.

      I’ve neither seen nor heard of any Brixit voter who knew that immigrants paid in more to the economy that they got out of it, who knew what would happen with the troubles over in Ireland, how many UK jobs would be lost, the increase in prices for eat
      ing European produce or having holidays there.

      I recall our own Indy Ref when Westminster assured that you are better together -But Not for England together with Europe?

      The Threat the Banks would leave Scotland if we were kicked out of the EU. Well why isn’t England afraid as the Banks are leaving?

      Better to take local control and make local decisions, but not for Scotland?

      At what level will the English Currency be against the Euro when they split. Will it drop 30% from its peak. Very Likely!

      What trade deals will be in place, if any and on what terms?

      Will Scotland become Independent? Let’s hope so!

      Where are all the warnings about not being in Europe from the Tory Chums running Asda, The Mail, B & Q, Standard Life, Barrhead Travel,Tunnocks, Baxters, etc?

      Its impossible for business to make any sort of viable plans with so many unknown factors and impossible for any voter to know what faction of what English party is best suited to control Westminster.

      The whole shame is pin the tail on the Donkey while Blind folded.

      Thank God for SNP and the only escape option that can save us.

    47. yesindyref2 says:

      OT defence.
      I don’t think subs are an option to start with for Indy, but here’s an interesting small conventional sub design,

      The Vidar-7 requires a crew of 15 which is manageable, surge 21. Interesting write-up here:

      more detail

      Can’t find cost, maybe £200 million to £400 million, relatively cheap through life cost.

    48. jfngw says:


      I suspect it depends on what the market strategy of these companies is, if they sell mainly to UK and don’t import then they may see it as an advantage, foreign competition have to price increases and they see killing to be made.

      Others sell to UK but import parts, they just expect to pass on any increases, foreign goods will also be more expensive.

      The rest which import/export must know they are screwed, especially those that are primarily exporters to the EU.

      That’s why owners like Wetherspoons are so pro-Brexit, they don’t see it as affecting them, so you can still enjoy your gourmet meal there.

      If you think business’s think about more than themselves just think of the fishing boat owners of the SFF, they could not care less about the rest of the industry as long they are lining their own pockets.

    49. Effijy says:

      Up to 9,000 British heroes who served Queen and country are homeless after leaving the military, a Sunday Mirror investigation reveals today.
      Shockingly, ex-service personnel account for one in 10 rough sleepers across the UK.

      Is the information above less important than Military Officers who are based in Scotland, and earning £35,000 per annum, paying £2 per week in extra tax to rebalance the pay of ordinary soldiers?

    50. Liz g says:

      Gus 1940 @ 5.16
      When a auld soak fae Thatchers cabinet and the Woman who disgracefully tried to humiliate our first minister on tv,not for his politics but because she pretended she felt creeped out by him.
      Is the sensible choice England really is screwed!

    51. stewartb says:

      It would be good to hear more about current thinking from across the Scottish business community.

      One can imaging that for Scottish businesses involved in exporting (i.e. those presently trading with ‘anywhere’ outside the UK), retention of EU membership, which is an option with Scottish independence, surely offers them much certainty:

      (i) it offers continuity in trade with the EU on similar terms as at present for those that expert to this market

      (ii) it offers continuity in trade with the many third countries that the EU already has a formal preferential trade agreement with ( ) – and now also with the recently established deals with Canada and Japan; and

      (iii) it also offers some considerable certainty over the principles/conditions under which future trade agreements with third countries will be concluded by the EU – there is plenty of prior evidence of the basis on which the EU addresses its members’ interests in trade.

      The future of the UK’s bilateral trade deals – the principles to be adopted and the terms that will be accepted – with countries outside the EU are much more uncertain – never mind uncertainties over which countries and concluded when.

      Again for exporters, an independent Scotland taking membership of the EEA via EFTA brings similar certainty over trade with the EU, plus access to the internal and external (third country) trade agreements already put in place for EFTA itself.

      For Scottish exporters concerned with achieving certainty for their business going forward, there are likely to be a few other high level factors on their minds right now: (i) waiting/hoping for Brexit to somehow not happen; (ii) waiting to see if the UK will stay in the single market or something close to it after all; and (iii) assessing risks and uncertainties associated with Scottish independence – will these (even) outweigh the downside of Brexit?

      For non-exporting Scottish companies (and those exporters that also have a significant market and/or supply chain in the rUK) the main issues are likely to be different: (a) continuing access to what is currently a domestic (UK) market post-independence; (b) access to labour post-Brexit; and (c) the impact of Brexit and subsequent UK trade deals (e.g. with the USA) on competition from cheap, differently regulated imports to the UK. Non-exporters will also want to weigh up the risks and uncertainties associated with Scottish independence – again will these outweigh any downside of Brexit?

      A substantial part of the case to address these issues can be set out by the SG now – to some extent it is happening, especially over food & drink: however, even if done convincingly, businesses may still wish to delay their strategic decisions until the form of Brexit is much clearer. Perhaps only then will they be willing to finalise their own cost/benefit analysis – and, assuming this is done rationally, offer overt support for independence.

      As the UK government kicks cans down the road on Brexit and the nature and length of transitional arrangements with the EU remain in detail fluid, identifying the optimal point in time for business people to ‘decide’ is hard to call.

    52. yesindyref2 says:

      @jfngw “If you think business’s think about more than themselves …

      Only bigger businesses really think about anything apart from theselves, and even that’s more brand and PR, rather than any desire to save the planet. But then that’s their duty – the business first, otherwise any shareholders would rightly sack the CE / board.

      Small businesses are often about sheer survival and keeping a roof over the head and food on the table, including for any employees they might have.

      As far as the business is concerned, few have the luxury of thinking outside the business itself, unless they can afford people whose job it is to do so.

      Just the stark reality of it. Basically business and politics don’t mix – unless there’s some financial advantage to it.

    53. yesindyref2 says:

      @stewartb 6.05pm
      Pretty much, as Macart would say.

    54. Ken500 says:

      Most of the companies which back Indy NO have lost business and profits have fallen because of Brexit etc. Their profits are down and some of them are having to lay off people. Many companies profits are down. Many major firms are moving or are planning to move out of Britain. The CBI have warned May many times her plans are inadequate and not working. Wages have fallen over the last ten years. Over 1% a year. Public sector more than private. Risen slightly since 2014 but not to the same level. Little growth. The £ has fallen putting up prices.

    55. Ian Foulds says:

      Apologies – Slightly off topic ‘ It was system of hierarchy, in which there is one group with all the power and another without any power.’

      This was a description by a Palestinian lawyer of what apartheid was in regard to South Africa and what he considers is similar to the state of Palestinians in Israel today.

      Might it be likened to two nation states on the island of Greater Britain?

    56. Effijy says:

      Big Bad Bean Counter Baillie, Labour, just of TV condemning SNP
      infrastructure projects as some are a little over budget?

      Labour’s Edinburgh Council estimated a new tram service would cost £375 Million when in fact they only completed half of the project for £776 Million.

      The project was also several years late on delivery.
      All Labour’s own incompetency!

      The building of the Scottish Parliament by The Labour Government started out with initial estimates of £30 Million,
      and yes Labour Delivered it years late, and with defects at a cost of £414 Million.

      It seems that the company who hired out plant equipment years before it was required and retained for years after it had no further use has close links with the Labour First Minister, his family and the family of another Labour Minister.

      Can we look at yet another Labour First Minister who didn’t know he couldn’t pocket money for renting out sections of his office? He resigned, didn’t face fraud charges, and the people of Scotland pay him more than £1,000 per week as a pension.

      So Rumbled of the Baillie you want to demand value you for money
      over SNP projects???

      STV Propaganda giving space to Baillie to spout her lies without response from our SNP representative.

      Hopefully STV will be produced by Scots with an interest in the Truth and Facts when we become independent.

    57. K1 says:

      Anent Businesses and what they are up to re Brexit, this is from one of the links Smallaxe put up in previous thread, from FT, usually paywalled so I’ve copied entire article for perusal:

      ‘UK steps up doomsday planning for no-deal Brexit’

      M26 motorway in Kent may become a lorry park to cope with Dover chaos

      •M26 to become lorry park
      •Sudden rupture would affect all parts of British economy
      •Companies begin to stockpile food and medicine

      A 10-mile-long motorway in south-east England can be shut and turned into a lorry park to cope with tailbacks from the port of Dover if Britain crashes out of the EU with no deal, under one plan being considered by the government.

      The M26 in Kent would become a “holding area” for up to 1,400 goods vehicles to try to ease the gridlock as up to 10,000 lorries a day suddenly require customs checks to enter the EU.
      The idea is just one part of a vast effort by the government to brace Britain for the possibility of chaos if relations sour with the EU and co-operation ends after next March.
      With London and Brussels still deeply at odds over their post-Brexit relationship, the chances of leaving without a deal are growing rapidly and contingency planning is being stepped up on both sides.

      But after 45 years of integration, a sudden rupture would affect almost every part of British life, with companies already stockpiling food and medicine, and the government looking at whether it needs to use the military to keep the country running.
      Weekly advice on no-deal planning

      John Manzoni, the chief executive of the civil service, told MPs on Thursday that a breakdown between the UK and the EU could have some “horrendous consequences” that the UK is not yet ready to cope with.

      “There needs to be a narrative to say, ‘Actually we don’t want this to happen but we have to prepare just in case it does and here are all the things that we have to do’,” he said. “There are supply chains for food and medicines; we have to put in place contingencies for those.”
      Over the summer, the government will start issuing weekly advice to businesses and households on how to prepare for a “disorderly” Brexit and 70 technical notes are being prepared. As part of the preparations, some 250,000 small businesses will be asked to start making customs declarations, in a dry run for a hard Brexit.

      The public campaign about no-deal planning is partly designed to show the EU that it should take Theresa May seriously when she says she is prepared to walk away without a deal. But the government also wants to convey the message that preparing for no deal is not just a matter for the civil service, but also one for companies and individuals.

      Businesses already spending millions

      UK businesses are already spending heavily on their preparations. Adam Marshall, head of the British Chambers of Commerce, said companies have been thinking through the potential impact of changes to cross-border trade, staffing, contracts, VAT and intellectual property.
      “The government needs to do the same — and demonstrate to business that it has clear answers to all the big questions that are within its own control,” he said.
      A recent survey by the CBI found that 61 per cent of members were developing a contingency plan for a “no deal” scenario: but the vast majority found this difficult because of the lack of information available.

      The M26 in Kent is no stranger to stationary vehicles but the motorway may have to be turned into a lorry park under a no-deal Brexit © Alamy
      In the pharmaceuticals sector, companies said they were aware of potential shortages of vital medicines.

      David Jefferys, senior vice-president for Eisai, a Japanese pharmaceuticals company, said a total of 3,000 to 4,000 marketing authorisations for medicines are held in the UK and will need to be moved to mainland Europe.

      His company is transferring licences for about 60 medicines to Germany “at considerable cost”. He said each transfer costs “about €7,200 [?.?.?.] just for them to change the name from Eisai Europe in Hatfield to Eisai GMBH in Frankfurt”.

      “We will have to be stockpiling products on both sides of the channel to keep security of supply?.?.?.?We reckon that the whole enterprise is [costing us] between £5m and £10m,” Dr Jefferys added.

      No deal plans being activated

      George Bridges, a former Brexit minister who is now advising the chair of the bank Santander, also said that companies are running out of patience.
      “Some people think we can strike a deal with the EU in, say, mid-February, and that will stop business from activating their no-deal plans, but that’s totally unrealistic,” he said. “They will start implementing them incrementally and then the question is how reversible some of that is if there is a deal.”

      Gavin Darby, chief executive of Premier Foods, the Mr Kipling cake maker, who is also president of the Food and Drink Federation, the industry group, said some companies were increasing their stock of ingredients on UK soil.

      “Smart companies will have worked out where the pinch points are with ingredients and be building up inventory,” he said but declined to comment on what Premier was doing.

      RAF aircraft could be used to ferry supplies of food and medicine around the country © Getty
      Ian Wright, director-general of the Food and Drink Federation, said food manufacturers had two main concerns. “One is getting product in through ports around the Brexit date, so that you can continue to manufacture. The other concern is — what will happen to the price of ingredients?

      “If there’s no deal, you’d expect sterling to tank, so people are trying to hedge against those concerns by storing ingredients like spices that can be kept in dry storage, as well as chilled and frozen food, although there is a shortage of chilled and frozen warehousing in the south of England.”

      Peter Ward, chief executive of the UK Warehousing Association, said: “Half the food we consume is imported; 80 per cent of that imported food comes from Europe and 90 per cent of that comes through the Dover corridor. If I were a property investor, I’d be scouring the M20 corridor now because that’s where there’ll be demand.”

      Whitehall sees some successes

      In Whitehall, preparations for no-deal, led by Tom Shinner, head of policy and delivery co-ordination at the Department for Exiting the European Union (Dexeu), have seen some important successes.

      HM Revenue & Customs, for example, has said it is now close to being able to cope with a surge of users for its new Customs Declaration Service computer system if there is no deal.
      In the face of heavy traffic at the ports, however, HMRC said on Thursday that it would prioritise keeping the “flow moving” over collecting duties. About 5,000 new customs officials will be needed if there is no Brexit deal, and 1,113 have so far been hired, HMRC said.
      If there is no deal next March, MPs expect they will have to pass about 1,000 new statutory instruments through Parliament in a matter of days to bring regulations into UK law, including safety certificates for airlines, maintaining the enforceability of financial contracts and even keeping the Channel tunnel open.

      “It would be like 2008 when Parliament had an endless sitting to deal with the crisis,” said one official. “At least we’ve had a recent experience of this.” Some MPs note that even without a full Brexit deal, it may be possible to strike bilateral agreements on aviation and nuclear regulation to mitigate the worst possible outcome.

      Details are alarming for public

      The challenges stretch in all directions. The National Audit Office disclosed this week that the government does not yet have plans for a system to issue as many as 7m international driving licences to British tourists who wish to drive in the EU if the current arrangements are not honoured. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is considering racehorse passports.

      Philip Hammond, the chancellor, put aside £3bn for no-deal contingency planning in his November Budget and an increase in “no deal” activity has been evident across Whitehall in recent days.

      But many aspects of the contingency planning — like the M26 idea and the use of RAF aircraft to ferry supplies of food and medicine around the country — are so drastic that they risk alarming the public.

      “The M26 is a major artery and you have to pray it wouldn’t come to this,” said James Hookham, deputy chief executive of the Freight Transport Association.

      “It’s certainly one of the options they are looking at in government. It would effectively mean that Cobra had taken over the road network as a matter of national security,” he added, referring to the government’s emergency council.’

    58. jfngw says:


      I agree that most business’s probably keep it to themselves but there are a number that have clearly painted their colours to the wall and most of these are pro-Brexit. Their position has been it is good for the country when it fact it is only good for them.

      Also business keeping out of politics is not really my experience of the indyref, there were legions queueing up encouraging us to vote no.

    59. Petra says:

      @ twathater at 4:24pm ….

      I know that Nicola Sturgeon holds meetings to discuss Brexit “implications” with the Heads of, for example, the Confederation of British Industry, Institute of Directors, Federation of Small Businesses, Scottish Council for Development and Industry, Scottish Financial Enterprise and the Scottish Chamber of Commerce.

      She’s also, over and above visiting Brussels, had all Scottish Consuls from the 27 EU countries at Bute House to discuss Scotland’s future in the EU, how to protect our interests and so on.

      A number of SNP politicians are also doing their rounds at night across the country speaking to people, such as Jeanne Freeman, Mike Russell, Mhairi Black, Tommy Sheppard etc.

      There’s only so much that they can do to get the word out there, curtailed as they are by the MSM. As to Nicola speaking to workers well I’m sure she would jump at the chance if she got the opportunity to do so: an invite.

      I don’t know if I’ve been missing something but you don’t seem to hear much from the Unions in Scotland. Could it be that their bosses are controlled by the Labour Party and are willing, like the MSM, to sell the Scots out for their love of their precious Union?

      We know too that many company bosses in Scotland support the Union. In fact I read somewhere that 600 invitations were sent out for them to meet and discuss Brexit with around 25% only taking up the offer. Many with an “I’m alright Jack mentality, such as Ineos’s Ratcliffe declined the offer.

      Meanwhile we’ll have to let the Westminster bulldozers do the

    60. Petra says:

      Oops pressed the submit button too soon!

    61. galamcennalath says:

      stewartb says:

      It would be good to hear more about current thinking from across the Scottish business community.

      The beef and lamb industries are making very strong statements on what Brexit could do to their businesses. Like many food items, Scottish meat is at the quality end, and Brexit could wreak havoc.

      These are the people who often put up ‘Vote Tory’ signs in their fields. We could say, ‘Hell mend them’, but every convert to our cause has to be made welcome. I don’t think they are ready to cross over yet, but they are well pissed off. The way things are going, they will want an iScotland close or in the EU, I am certain.

    62. sandy says:

      Worth while checking if Baillie is using her abacus at right angles again.

    63. Donald Bruce says:

      if you pay attention to the anti Scottish propaganda you can see a recent change. Behind all the keep us together is slow asset striping from Scotland before England leaves Scotland.. of course we will vote leave. But the plan I think is to have a right wing Singapore type government for England. The Scots would never agree to that…so they need to go.

    64. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Effijy at 6.30

      It is not wise to keep referencing the lies about the costs of the Scottish Parliament building. The first estimates, which are always quoted by our enemies, were for the adaption of the Royal High School in Edinburgh to a parliament.

      The actual costs of the new build Parliament in its present site are not in fact unusual for that huge project or particularly expensive. An office block built as an extension to the Westminster Parliament at the same time cost more than the new Scottish Parliament.

      I am very glad we built a new Parliament (which is very striking and has about the best debating chamber in the world,though lots of the interior was not determined as the architect died before he finished the project)

      The building of an impressive new national Parliament was a statement of intent and we should be proud of it.

    65. Dr Jim says:


      Click on Business for Scotland just under the Scottish politics section there’s loads of interesting stuff happening all the time and you get to see how many businesses actually do support Independence

      Soz if you already use it

    66. Thepnr says:


      “October is meant to be THE Deadline to beat all deadlines, but some smart arse suggested yesterday that that deadline could be moved to December.

      Then there is Article 50, this same guy said yesterday that Article 50 could actually be extended, my heart sank.”

      That would likely be me then.

      Flexibility in politics is the name of the game, they will bend in all directions. Whether your heart sank on not, that is the reality and there is no such thing as a “deadline” as they can always be extended. Some smart arse told me that a long time ago.

      Nicola Sturgeon will decide when the time is right, she has no deadlines because she’s not an idiot. It will be on her timing for a simple reason. Fuck all is known yet and only an idiot would set a date until EVERYTHING is known.

      Right now nothing is known and looks like it will be that way for a good while yet.

    67. Cactus says:

      Their best offer…

      Try again ssson.

      They didnae even put any ‘Fellowes oil lubricant’ on the blades.

      The Tories are trollin’ us good peoples of the EU.

      No pritt stick can put that humpty dumpty…

      Back together again like.



    68. Petra says:

      @ Dr Jim says at 7:36 pm … ”Petra – Click on Business for Scotland just under the Scottish politics section there’s loads of interesting stuff happening all the time and you get to see how many businesses actually do support Independence. Soz if you already use it.”

      Yeah I do use it Dr Jim. Brilliant site. I check it out most days along with WGD and Wings of course. Great to see that not every business man / woman supports the Union.


      Apologies if this has been posted already.

      ‘Food expert warns Brexit could lead to rationing … and the UK is ‘less prepared than in 1939′.’

      ‘Professor Tim Lang said insufficient supplies after the UK leaves the European Union could see the Government forced to adopt a measure last used during the Second World War and the post-war era.

      However, Lang said the UK was currently less prepared for rationing than it was in 1939 as planning had started three years earlier by Sir William Beveridge ahead of the build-up to the conflict.

      The senior academic spoke out as he prepared to publish a damning study next week on the impact of Brexit on the supply, quality and price of food.

      He said that 30% of Britain’s food supply comes directly from EU countries and a further 11% via deals done by the EU with other countries.

      “Is rationing possible? Well, if we are cut off from 41% of our food that might be one of the things that has to be done,” he told The National.

      Lang, a professor of food policy at City University, London, said prepar-ations were better ahead of rationing being introduced during the Second World War.

      “Beveridge was brought back in 1936 and started making preparations, but there are no preparations for this at all,” he said. “What we are seeing is chaotic last-minute planning. It is humiliating, frankly.”

      Lang added that an adequate supply of fruit and vegetables was a particular worry.

      “Britain does not produce enough of its own fruit and vegetables,” he said. “We consume about nine and half billion tonnes of fruit and vegetables every year, 8.1 billion of that comes from across the Channel.”

      Lang said that in order to avoid bread rationing, farmers would have to stop feeding wheat to cattle, so the supply could instead be used for bread supplies.

      He said: “If we stop feeding wheat to cattle, we should have enough bread.”

      Lang added: “I think the British public should start getting very stroppy with their MPs for allowing this chaos to happen. I am a public health expert. Does the Government have a responsibility for ensuring its people are fed? Well, the answer is it does under UN health declarations.”

      Asked if people would not get enough food post Brexit, Lang said: “Very, very quickly, we could be heading to that situation. There are people hungry in Britain already, there is malnourishment already, and severe inequalities. The Government’s resilience planning is complacent. You will see that in my report on Monday.”

      Lang’s report comes a year after his major study warned on the adverse impact on food supply and prices of even a soft Brexit.

      In it, he said the Government was “sleepwalking” into a post-Brexit future of insecure, unsafe and increasingly expensive food supplies, and had little idea as to how it would replace decades of EU regulation on the issue.

      Co-authored with Professor Erik Millstone from Sussex University and Professor Terry Marsden from Cardiff University, the report said that there had been an almost complete lack of action so far in a host of areas connected to food and farming, including subsidies, migrant farm labour and safety standards.

      The 88-page report noted that large elements of EU agricultural and fisheries policies would need major reform even if Britain remained a member.

      Lang said his new report was even more critical of the Government. “Our fears have got worse since last year,” he said. “To be honest, things have got worse. The clock is ticking. We have no clarity about what is going on.”

      MP Stephen Gethins, the SNP’s foreign affairs spokesman, said Lang’s reports and warnings over the possible introduction of rationing underlined the severity of the impact may Brexit have.

      “These worrying warnings are the latest in a growing list of findings that highlight the severity of the UK Government’s Brexit plans,” he said. “With each day that passes, it becomes clear that the continuing civil war dominating the Tory Party is pushing Scotland and the UK closer to the Brexit abyss.

      “Businesses, academics and industry experts are increasingly bringing to light the catastrophic consequences the UK government’s hard Brexit plans will have on the UK. Yet, the Prime Minister has chosen to brush aside the evidence.”

      Gethins added: “It’s high time the Prime Minister heeded the mounting evidence and stepped back from the cliff edge.”

      Lang’s 2017 report criticised the Government for not warning consumers about the “enormous” implications. He said then: “UK food security and sustainability are now at stake. A food system which has an estimated three to five days of stocks cannot just walk away from the EU, which provides us with 31% of our food.”

    69. Grouse Beater says:

      Hi Chris – I’ve taken a leaf out of your book.

      I’m still on holiday enjoying every minute I can before the inevitable call to arms is made by Nicola and her wartime government, if this Brexit malarkey is anything to go by. Meanwhile…

      This fun essay is attracting lots of readers:

    70. Robert Peffers says:

      @Artyhetty says:21 July, 2018 at 12:53 pm:

      ” … ‘Will they centralise health again?’”

      It is a matter of fact that the forerunner, and the idea of a free at point of use NHS, came from a free Health Scheme that was running in the Scottish Highlands well before any other United Kingdom health service.

      ” … and info on how people do not have to pay the tv tax if they have the internet,”

      Sorry to disillusion you, Artyhetty but if they watch live broadcasts from any source or watch the BBC iPlayer on the internet they do need a TV broadcast licence.

      ” … The UKgov are working on people, it’s subtle, and it’s dangerous.”

      I cannot disagree with that Artyhetty, and I’ll add that Westminster has always relied upon brainwashing and false information.

      The real actual trade of the English author, Daniel Defoe, (real name Daniel Foe), was a political pamphlet writer for the Government and he was also an undercover agent for the English Spymaster, Sir Robert Harley.

      Defoe was working undercover in Edinburgh in the run up to the Treaty of Union and there are letters from Defoe in the English archives that include reports sent back to Robert Harley of what Defoe was up to with the landed gentry who were also the Scottish Parliamentarians.

      Another undercover agent for England was William Paterson, the London Scot who had previously instigated the private subscription scheme to bail out the English Monarchy/Government who had massive national debts due to the wars they were involved in because of the several English Navigation Acts.

      These Navigation Acts banned all foreign nations, (including Scotland), from trading with the English Crown Colonies unless they did so by use of the English Mercantile Marine, (English Merchants in their private, non-RN, merchant ships). Yet the King of England was also King of Scots.

      These English Navigation Acts:-


      Also led to the American War of Independence as Westminster was sucking their colonies dry and taxing them out of existence.

      Anyhow, there was William Paterson, after instigating what led to the Bank of England, working undercover in Edinburgh and instigating the disastrous, (for Scotland), Darian Scheme.

      First of all the English Crown/Parliament pledged, (along with their previous main European rivals, the Dutch, who they had fought wars against due to he Navigation Acts), pledged to finance 50% of the Darien Expedition but then pulled out at the last minute. This assured that the scheme was doomed before it began as the Scots could not pull out as the ships had been bought and the bulk of the expedition’s supplies contracted for. Also the crews had been taken on.

      In other words Westminster had set up the Darien Scheme and ser it up to fail. Then Westminster bought off the Scots landed gentry who had lost their money by paying their debts. Those they could not bribe they blackmailed and those the could neither bribe or blackmail they threatened.

      Scotland, as a country was not bankrupted as there was no Scottish national debt whatsoever. It was the personal wealth of the landed gentry/parliamentarians that were bankrupted.

      England got the Treaty of Union by illegal means – but they don’t want you to know that and you won’t have learned about it when at school. You will also find it hard to dig up the truth.

    71. bjsalba says:

      @Tom at 3:06 pm

      Ireland has been cracking on with bypassing the UK.

      Notice the date – October last year,

      Also ferries to France and Spain.

    72. Petra says:

      An alternative point of view.

      (Very) Long Letter in the National submitted by Eddie Bone, Campaign Director, Campaign for an English Parliament:

      ”Some friendly advice from an English nationalist.”

      ”I write this piece as an Englishman who has campaigned for an English Parliament and as an individual who believes that the British Government is currently treating the English and the English nation unfairly. For years as the campaign director and former chairman of the Campaign for an English Parliament, I have championed a federal UK but recently have openly admitted that England’s only chance of self-determination might be as an independent country. This is due to the complete and absolute refusal by the British Government to treat England with respect.

      The final straw for me has been the British Government’s failure to appoint a Brexit minister for England so that England could be properly represented during the internal UK discussions on Brexit. This has meant that an English voice has been denied. So I have had to finally accept that Theresa May’s government doesn’t give a damn about England, the English nation or English concerns. Many Scottish nationalists, no doubt, feel the same about the British Government and Scotland!

      Although some English people still want a federal UK it is becoming harder and harder for the patriotic English to see how that is going to work. Moving to a constitutional position that now includes independence for England has meant that I have taken more interest into the SNP’s interaction with both its supporters and the British Government. I realise that an English nationalist approaches the issue of self-government differently to a Scottish nationalist, but our common ground is growing.

      We are similar in that English nationalists want to do the best for England just as the Scottish nationalist wants to do the best for Scotland. However, English nationalists come into the debate with the acknowledgement that we are the largest nation of the UK in population, geographical size and in economic terms and also have a history that shows we have dominated the British Isles for much of the last 1000 years.

      I know that this view will put me at odds with many Scottish nationalists but all I am doing is stating simple truths from an English nationalist perceptive. All that said, I am not asking for the Scots’ sympathy over the way the British Government treats England, I just thought it would be helpful to understand an English nationalist position before highlighting the rocks hidden under the water by the British Government that the SNP appear to be heading towards. It is essential that Nicola Sturgeon navigates her team and the Scottish independence movement away from those treacherous waters if the SNP are to get the Scottish independence they desperately want. If English nationalists who understand the underhandedness of the British government can assist in the SNP steering safely through those treacherous waters then the Scottish independence movement will not run aground.

      Not being a Scottish nationalist has made it easier to see that the British Government does not view Nicola Sturgeon with the same respect as Alex Salmond. One reason for this is that Nicola Sturgeon committed the Scottish nationalist movement, after the Brexit referendum, to the position of fervently wanting to remain in the EU. The British Government, acting like the wreckers of old, have encouraged her to overly tack her EU-supporting position and she sailed right into a British government trap. She locked the SNP’s ship on one particular course by declaring against Brexit too quickly.

      This was accomplished by encouraging Nicola Sturgeon to confuse one Union of nations (the UK) with wanting another union of nations (the EU). They allowed her to confuse her supporters by blurring the clear issue of simply wanting Scotland to become an independent country. She was essentially saying that she was quite happy to be subservient to another block of nations dominated by France and Germany. This has divided her core supporters. It is no longer good enough that a Scottish nationalist just wants to dock into the port of independence, but that port must now belong to the EU as well. SNP supporters have been forced to pick another alliance! That type of ballast needs to be jettisoned or it will sink the SNP.

      Sir John Curtice, professor of politics at Strathclyde University, who is no friend of the SNP, has highlighted that the EU-supporting course set by the SNP is splitting the Scottish nationalist vote by a third. From an English nationalist view, there appears no advantage for the SNP saying any more that they are pro-EU.

      This has meant that all the British Government needs to do is to keep flickering the false shore light and wait for the SNP to run aground at the next General Election. This will enable them to say that the SNP no longer has the mandate to call for a second independence referendum. This is because the odds are that no government can remain in power for a number of terms without being damaged by an active opposition. It is natural that a government’s support gradually crumbles away because the mere fact of being in government expands opposition and undermines support. The navigational risks for the SNP are clear to see from the English shoreline, and English nationalist help in pointing out some of the hidden rocks is needed.

      Steering a ship with wreckers at work is difficult because no captain wants to be beached, so the SNP has a couple of very stark choices to make. They can either sit tight out at sea and hope Scottish nationalist support increases at the next General Election, or they steer directly towards another Scottish independence referendum in 2019 and accept that heading towards a port will take a ship close to shallow waters. But that is the risk a captain has to face when wanting to dock a ship during a storm, and getting Scottish independence is definitely creating one. Most captains who want to “weather the storm” would accept friendly and helpful guidance from the shoreline, even if it was from English nationalists!

      The SNP are now stuck between hoping that they do not have a slow death by a decreasing vote at the ballot box or taking the chance of a second referendum when they might not be 100% ready. I know which choice I would take and it seems to me that the SNP cannot wait for the next General Election because that is exactly what the British Government wants them to do. This is where the British wreaker’s lamp is pointing the SNP towards. The SNP need to avoid that option and need to commit to a 2019 Scottish independence referendum, or the General Election 2020 could be the end of the independence issue! Commit or slowly sink!

      This leads me to a second point. I have always thought that the SNP had made a mistake at the last Scottish independence referendum by not working along with an English constitutional non-partisan group because they had mistakenly focused on wanting England broken up so that Edinburgh and the Scottish economy could challenge London and the south-east of England’s economy more successfully.

      The SNP’s political adventures into northern England, I assumed, were part of a plan to disrupt any attempts at England uniting. At the last independence referendum I thought they might have had a better chance of winning had they worked with the Campaign for an English Parliament, because we could have been arguing the case for English equality and fairness along the Northern Border towns. It was clear that many in England also wanted Scottish independence and many Scottish Unionists could have been reassured by the prospect of two independent countries working together. The SNP rejected that offer even after we went to Edinburgh to discuss what type of working arrangement could be organised.

      But now I think the time has changed and the SNP needs to work with English people who are in favour of an independent England or an independent Scotland. If they want to win the next referendum on Scottish independence the SNP cannot afford to reject working with an English organisation this time. If they do, then the SNP will have truly wreaked their Scottish independence hopes on the rocks, or simply run out of supply or fuel because of staying out at sea for too long.”

    73. Cactus says:

      Gies yer equations.

      Stay high..

    74. stewartb says:

      To add to Mr Peffer’s reference to the Navigation Acts @8.30pm, this from a current Westminster parliament source shows up other forms of blatant intimidation used to secure the Act and then Treaty of Union.

      It concerns the passage of the Alien Act of 1705 (see this from https:// union-1707/overview/westminster-passes-the-alien-act-1705/) – to repeat, the source is the UK Parliament’s current web site!

      “When the Lords resumed their deliberations on Scotland on 6 December, two bills were proposed by Lord Somers, one of the Junto (group of Whigs) leaders, with Godolphin’s support. One offered fresh negotiations for a full incorporating union, with a single parliament and unified free trade area.

      The other, an aliens bill, threatened that unless Scotland agreed to negotiate terms for union and accepted the Hanoverian succession by 25 December 1705, there would be a ban on the import of all Scottish staple products into England. Scots would also lose the privileges of Englishmen under English law – thus endangering rights to any property they held in England. Both bills became law early in 1705.”

      Another example of the force brought to bear to bring Scotland’s elites to heel – hardly a Union voluntarily and respectfully agreed between equals. And the nature of the threat then to trade does have a notable resonance both to the threats made in 2014 and now regarding access to the Kingdom of England’s market post-independence. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose!

    75. ben madigan says:

      @ Thepnr who mentioned deadlines

      One deadline we are sure of is 30th March 2019.

      If the Withdrawal Agreement is ratified before 30 March 2019, EU law will cease to apply to and in the UK on 1 January 2021, i.e. after a transition period of 21 months.

      “If the Withdrawal Agreement is not ratified before 30 March 2019, there will be no transition period and EU law will cease to apply to and in the UK as of 30 March 2019. This is referred to as the “no deal” or “cliff-edge” scenario”.

      The EU may well be able to add on another month or month and a half if needed to ensure ratification, but the UK loses the transition/Implementation period it asked for

    76. Robert Peffers says:

      @Col says: 21 July, 2018 at 3:19 pm:

      ” … We must decolonise ourselves or we may find that westminster taking ever more drastic measures to hold onto our resources whilst suppressing us possibly out of existence with the help of our so called unionists.”

      Well, Col, I may be wrong but there is possible merit in NOT taking such actions in too much haste and our First Minister, (or her teams of advisors), have shown themselves so far to be master strategists.

      I’m of the opinion the Westminster Government, right from the beginning of the Treaty of Union, have.(to use an old sailors term), tended to always have, “sailed too close to the wind”.

      For anyone unfamiliar with that term it originates from sailing so close to the direction the wind is blowing to verge upon being downright dangerous.

      By that I mean they have taken many risks of being legally challenged of breaking the treaty and just leaving enough doubt to leave a legal challenge that could fail and thus make any subsequent challenge even more doubtful.

      Perhaps the SG is waiting until they have Westminster bang to rights and unable to wriggle out of it as they have always done in the past. I believe that Westminster has already crossed that line and thisBR UKEXIT idiocy will be the thing that leaves them open to a challenge through the International courts that will end the united Kingdom.

      Which could see the EU accept The Kingdom of Scotland partner in the union, not the Kingdom of England partner in the union, as the legacy member state of the EU. Thus as the Kingdom of Scotland remains in the EU there would be no need for Scotland to apply to be an EU member state.

    77. stewartb says:

      Petra @ 8.49pm

      Many thanks for reproducing this long letter. Some interesting, some quite odd (to say the least) perceptions. However, views from different perspectives should be welcomed and the Kingdom of (greater) England should indeed get its own parliament for its own independent state, and get out of Scotland’s affairs. But as to this ….

      “The SNP’s political adventures into northern England, I assumed, were part of a plan to disrupt any attempts at England uniting.”

      Where on earth did that Machiavellian construct come from? What have I missed?

    78. Robert Peffers says:

      @David McCann says: 21 July, 2018 at 4:58 pm:

      “A Pratstick might also come in handy!”

      I favour a big stick, David, what else would you need for twa thick planks?

    79. Iain says:

      I can see the subsidy junkies in London shitting their pants at that prospect. @ Robert Peters 9.15

    80. Famous15 says:

      The BBC headlines the painting of the new Forth Bridge taking two years. Eh? Ya galoots the railbridge was painted for over a hundred years and it was a world famed task. BBC is the most biased broadcaster in the bloody world.

    81. K1 says:

      ‘She locked the SNP’s ship on one particular course by declaring against Brexit too quickly.’

      No she didn’t, she locked into that position because Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU by 62%. There is not the same ‘movement’ in England for English Independence precisely because England does not have the democratic deficit that Scotland suffers. England has the government it wants 100% of the time…all of the time.

      The rest of that longish rant can be fairly dismissed when one of its central premises for ‘offering advice’ is predicated upon the false belief that:

      ‘She was essentially saying that she was quite happy to be subservient to another block of nations dominated by France and Germany.’

      That’s a Brexiteer Englander writing that, why would we be taking any advice from anyone with such an absurd notion of how the EU actually operates?

      But…let’s hear them out.

      ‘This is because the odds are that no government can remain in power for a number of terms without being damaged by an active opposition. It is natural that a government’s support gradually crumbles away because the mere fact of being in government expands opposition and undermines support.’

      Does this writer know that the SNP have retained power for over 11 years now? Do they not understand that in Scotland we will never vote for Tories to run our parliament and we will never vote for Labour ever again to do so? There is no ‘active opposition’ in Scotland, there is no ‘gradually’ crumbling away…and its utter bullshit to state ‘the mere fact of being in government expands opposition and undermines support’ in the Scottish context. The facts utterly dispute that analysis?

      The rest of this letter seems to be a rebuke to the SNP for not letting this person’s ‘non partisan’ organisation get a foot in the door last indyref?

      And now basically they are saying ‘ye’s can’t do it without us’:

      ‘If they want to win the next referendum on Scottish independence the SNP cannot afford to reject working with an English organisation this time.’

      Kin we no…aye?


      ‘If they do, then the SNP will have truly wreaked their Scottish independence hopes on the rocks, or simply run out of supply or fuel because of staying out at sea for too long.”

      Btw…the sea metaphor…ran aground long before his letter reached the shores of our ears.


    82. galamcennalath says:

      ben madigan says:

      If the Withdrawal Agreement is ratified before 30 March 2019 …

      Armageddon hinges on the WA and the only significant sticking point is TMay agreeing a permanent backstop keeping NI in the (near enough) single market. Simple, it would seem.

      TMay’s problem is she won’t put the whole of the UK in the single market or have a customs border in the Irish Sea, should that backstop prove necessary. And these are the only two real world options.

      TMay is crudely trying to introduce a third way – sufficient cherry picking of the single market to satisfy the Irish Border issue without the need of the backstop, yet a hard enough Brexit to satisfy the loony right. Exactly why or how TMay thinks the EU will accept this is beyond comprehension, they won’t.

      The only real third way is to crash out with no deal.

      Will the EU shift the timetable to avoid a ‘crash out’? Why should they, if the UK isn’t being serious about accepting a backstop in the Agreement and being willing to implement it? The UK certainly aren’t showing any signs of being serious.

      And so, this weekend, the talk has been of No Deal.

      The 30th March 2019 is the critical date right now.

    83. Legerwood says:

      Dave MacEwan Hill @ 7.30pm
      In response to Effijy @ 6.30 you said:
      “”It is not wise to keep referencing the lies about the costs of the Scottish Parliament building. The first estimates, which are always quoted by our enemies, were for the adaption of the Royal High School in Edinburgh to a parliament.””
      Why is it not wise? From beginning to its, overdue, end the whole Parliament project was the sole responsibility of the then Labour UK Government and in particular Mr Donald Dewar in his role as Secretary of State for Scotland. The SNP had no responsibility for any decision related to its location etc.

      The figure of £40 million was bandied about in the early stages of the process including the White Paper in 1997 but this increased slightly by the time of the final announcement in 1997 – see below.

      From a Parliamentary Briefing paper: Building the Scottish Parliament, The Holyrood Project. January 2005. SN/PC3357

      “”A second submission was put to Ministers on 12 June 1997 which offered further elaboration on the four options in the form of cost estimates.13 The lowest estimate was given for the adaptation and refurbishment of St Andrew’s House at £27 million and the highest estimate was given for a new-build solution in Leith for £43.5 million.

      “”On 24 July 1997 a final version of the White Paper was published. A range of £10 to £40 million was set for the cost of the building.””


      “”On 15 December 1997 Ministers received presentations on the design feasibility and estimated construction costs of the four site options. The construction cost for the Regent Road/St Andrew’s House site was calculated at £65 million; Leith was estimated at £59 million; Haymarket was estimated at £53 million (including site acquisition costs) and the Holyrood site excluding Queensbury House, was estimated at £49.5 million. The site acquisition cost for Holyrood was costed at £5 million. All estimates were excluding fees and VAT.

      “”In a press release given on 9 January 1998, Donald Dewar announced: “I am delighted to be able to announce today that after a careful and thorough examination of options, Scotland’s Parliament will occupy this prestigious setting in the historical heart of Edinburgh close to the Palace of Holyrood.”

      The paper is very interesting and detailed and covers the findings of the Inquiry into the whole process.

      It is worth noting that the final costs were almost 10 times that estimate. The costs were paid from Scotland’s block grant. Central Government did not make any contribution to the cost of the building. The completion of building was about 3 years late. Maintenance costs run into millions.

      You would think that with this, trams and PFI Labour would keep well away from anything involving construction cost overruns and late delivery.

    84. Dr Jim says:

      Jackie Baillie says the SNP aren’t being fiscally responsible with new projects being carried out

      This from the Labour party who gave us PFI and the continuation of paying £2.200 for each toilet pan in each of the schools they built using the same mental system or should I say cistern

      So if you get a crack in your toilet you’ll know who not to call Labours toilet busters plumbers extraordinaire

    85. Cactus says:

      We have many questions…

      Answers r cool.

    86. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dr Jim –

      I’m sure you didn’t intend to include Jackie Baillie and cracked toilet pans in the same comment.


    87. mr thms says:

      Usually architects enter a design and the best design wins…

      “A competition was launched on 26 January 1998 to find a designer for the Scottish Parliament building at Holyrood. The competition was to select an architect to work with rather than select a finished design.”


    88. Thepnr says:

      @ben madigan

      Deadlines were not brought up by me on this thread but by Danny, I was responding to him. The “deadline” of 30th March is another false construct as there remains the option of changing it with the approval of the EU27.

      So no one should get it into their head that this deadline is immovable because it is, the EU who do want a deal will give an extension, i.e. move this deadline if they believe it is still in their interests to do so, and I believe they will.

      There is nothing this government can do to resolve Brexit other than kick the can even further down the road while they pray for a solution to be found.

      No “deadline” is written in stone, they are targets, nothing more.

    89. jfngw says:

      Labour release handout claiming project delays and overspending. Dutifully reported as fact by the Westminster funded BBC and other Scottish media, no independent investigation required.

      It’s irrelevant, to me anyway, what the outcome of the Brexit negotiations are now. The UK government has been exposed in their contempt of Scotland and anything Scottish. We must dissolve this union asap.

      Scottish, not British, it’s what defines me now.

      Their rebranding of all things Scottish is I believe actually having the opposite effect of what they want, I actually despise union jack emblazoned products now, avoid them when possible.

    90. Thepnr says:

      One other thing, if there is another General Election between now and March 29th then that makes moving the artificial “deadline” created by Article 50 even more likely so as to give any new administration time to sort out the mess created by the last.

      I doubt anyone is saying that another General Election is impossible.

    91. Danny says:

      Thepnr 7.54pm

      Just catching up with your post earlier my friend.

      “October is meant to be THE Deadline to beat all deadlines, but some smart arse suggested yesterday that that deadline could be moved to December.

      Then there is Article 50, this same guy said yesterday that Article 50 could actually be extended, my heart sank.”

      “That would likely be me then.”

      Sorry about the wee mix up, it was not you who I was talking about, it was a Remain supporting Tory MP on Sky News on Thursday.

      During a two minute interview he moved the goalposts about six times regarding the final date for Brexit.

      Again apologies if you picked it up as to mean you.


    92. Thepnr says:


      LOL, my f*ckup but he must think like me 🙂

      Maybe this will cheer people up.

      This is a grainy and bad picture of Tiger Woods leaving the green at the ninth hole on Carnoustie today.

      This is a better picture of the house behind him on the same picture ?

    93. ben madigan says:

      @ Thepnr – many thanks for your replies.
      Since I didn’t read all the posts in this thread, I appreciate the one I saw from you may have been a reply to somebody else.

      This is just to explain I have nothing to quarrel about with you personally. Absolutely not.

      However, some deadlines are written in stone. The article 50 deadlines I quoted are from the latest EU communications.

      They are not targets.
      As i said, the EU may move the deadlines for a month or so – no longer because in May 2019 there are new elections to the EU parliament.
      The UK seats have already been allocated elsewhere as the UK will no longer be part of the EU – whether there is a “crash-out” or a Transition/implementation period

      With regards to your observation that “if there is another General Election between now and March 29th then that makes moving the artificial “deadline” created by Article 50 even more likely so as to give any new administration time to sort out the mess created by the last”.

      First – it is not an “artificial deadline. It was dictated by the timing of PM Theresa May’s letter which according to treaties the UK debated and signed up to limited the discussion period to 2 years ( deadline March 30th 2019).

      Second – An internal UK election would make no difference whatsoever to the deadline.
      Because the EU does not interfere with the internal workings of a member state (see Catalunya).
      Because the EU countries have had enough of the UK.
      Because life has to go on and the UK is not the centre of Europe.

      PS Like yourself I am very worried about what will happen to Scotland.
      Coming from a Scottish background, I sincerely wish and hope for the best for Scotland and her people – which in my view needs to be Independence before March 2019.

      Others may not agree. I accept that. It’s up to the Scottish people living in the country and their government to decide on the best time.

    94. Thepnr says:

      @ben madigan

      I guess it’s best then that we just wait and see for nothing is certain, at least for now.

    95. Cactus says:

      Fuck U and yer best offer Theresa May.

      Yer a bawbag.

      Heiding oot!

      The signal is coming and very going…

    96. Cactus says:

      Just about tae go stoatin’ aboot Crail like…

      Tis the festival like, love Nicola.

      Swearing soon.


    97. Cactus says:

      All by my self… singalong Scotland.

      To be cuntinued.

    98. Cactus says:

      Aye do pinky promises only…

      If ye don’t do, yer a dick..

      Hey Richard.

    99. Cactus says:

      Peek a boo bitches..

      U know.

    100. Cactus says:

      Good morning K1.

      Love you.

      Ahm in Crail.

      Et SO ahm lead to believe.

      Think about that.

      Fuck ra hammers.

    101. K1 says:

      Beautiful part of the country Cactus…enjoy… 😉

    102. Cactus says:

      Magaluf is a resort on which island?

      Ahhh ha ha ha.

      Try Majorca.

      Challenge is back.

    103. Cactus says:

      Mornin’ K1.

      Love Sco.


    104. Cactus says:

      Thanks K1, lot’s of excellent Scottish people here.

      Crail kicks ass!

      ‘Lambic’ is a Belgian variety of which drink?


      They got 64K…

    105. Cactus says:

      Gonna head aff topic, cause ah’ll just rattle this thread like.

      Taps aff.

      Music time.

    106. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ken1 ,entirely agree – it’s a thanks but no thanks to the English nationalist who obviously takes his knowledge of the SNP from unreliable sources like the BBBC and every foreign owned newspaper.

      Thepnr , absolutely lovely house in that photo!

      Drove to Dunoon yesterday and saw many smile inducing saltires – some other flag , belonging to some other group also flew and I was surprised by the depth of my revulsion. Obviously all those alien flags in the supermarkets have had an adverse effect on me!

    107. Ken500 says:

      There are YES flags all along the rail route from Aberdeen to the central belt. Scotland looks absolutely fabulous in the sun. Looks like a different place from the dreekit winter. Carnoustie looks amazing. The major facilities. Scotland is one of the major world tourist destination. Glasgow is a world conference centre. The Outlander and Whisky trails The cruising vessels. The Festival and Tattoo. It is amazing how Scotland has changed for the better in such a short time.

      People have more confidence and pride in themselves. The SNP Gov has helped put Scotland on the map. The amazing bridge, the new rail line. The fabulous new road. What improvements. The SNP/Holyrood Gov building Scotland up. Westminster trying to take Scotland down. They can get lost. They will not be taking away powers from Scotland but increasing them.

      There will be a GE election in October which the Tories will lose. It is the way to get out of their foolhardy mess. That’s what always happens with these people. Utter incompetence. They would be gone now but the so called ‘opposition’. They do not want the poison chalice. They are just as bad. Not turn up to vote and abstaining. A complete and utter shambles. Shameful and embarrassing. Imagine sanctioning and starving people. Illegal deporting people. Illegal wars starving, maiming and killing people. Just appalling, The Westminster unionist hypocrites, The lies that they tell. Iraq, Dunblane, Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years.

    108. Ken500 says:

      The year the SNP made the break though Holyrood 2007. There were flags and SNP banners and posters all along the route from Deeside down to Dundee, They were prominent everywhere. It was quite a boost of what was to come. There were a few Tory ones in the field but by comparison not many.

      It was such a relief when the SNP won. There was a chance Scotland could be protected. Cuts mitigated. Especially with the imminent prospect of a Tory Gov in Westminster. Or the ConDem lying hypocrites. They did the exact opposite of what they had promised. To protect NHS and Education. They cut both.

      The Labour shambles was drawing to a close. Back and forward it goes, total incompetence. From crisis to crisis. It’s as though the unionists get into power at Westminster. Look around to see how they can wreck the (world) economy. Then go ahead and do it, No matter how many times they are warned. They just blow it.

    109. galamcennalath says:

      Dorothy Devine says:

      some other flag , belonging to some other group

      Indeed, I feel absolute revulsion when I see one of those flying in Scotland. For me it has come to represent all that is bad, the imposition of alien views and policies, all the damage being done, it stands for the antithesis of democracy.

      I want that flag and all it symbolises put into the history books. I don’t want to see it ever flying again. The English should be flying a St George, perhaps with a wee dragon in the corner if that part of the Union survives.

      The saltire in my garden, like every other, reminds me that we can sort things out and move on to something much better.

    110. Clootie says:

      I am outraged!

      The Forth Rail Bridge opened in 1890 and they stil haven’t finished painting it!
      SNPbad….they are in government.

    111. Ken500 says:

      Blair still at it. Getting £10Million from the Saudis. He should be put in jail. The biggest warmongers in the world. A total absolute, despot monarchy. Using the US/UK as mercenaries. To do their dirty work. Perpetual war and terrorism. The apartheid State of Israel. Supported by the US. Under policies that would never be sanctioned in the West or the US. Total hypocrites.

      Britain/France (US) carved up the Middle East. They have done nothing but cause trouble there ever since. Killing and maiming millions. Westminster policies have caused the worst migration crisis in the Middle East since the 11WW. Then tried to use it to leave the EU. Causing even more economic damage. They are a disgrace. Tony Blair is responsible. Along with Cameron and the rest, They should be put in prison for fraud and crimes against humanity.

    112. galamcennalath says:

      This spells trouble…

      “The UK could refuse to pay its €39 billion divorce bill to Brussels if it does not get a trade deal, Brexit secretary Dominic Raab has signalled.

      Mr Raab said there had to be “conditionality” under the Article 50 withdrawal mechanism between settling Britain’s exit payment and creating a new relationship with the EU.”

      …. this is like going right back to the beginning and trying to rewrite everything agreed so far. Article 50 and the Withdrawal Agreement is completely unrelated to any future relationship.

      A no deal crash out looks more like with each passing day.

      The patience of the EU seems remarkable. They must be tempted to just say, “go to Hell, and when you’ve experienced that, come back and talk sensibly!”

    113. Breeks says:

      So Theresa May proposes a UK survival plan where post Brexit, the UK and EU can happily charge the various tariffs and charges on goods as, where, and when required, and then “settle up” at the end of the month like some kind of international bar tab. Yet a few hours later, the “Right Honourable Gentleman” Dominic Raab weighs in to the argument saying if the UK doesn’t get its own way, the EU can sing for its £38 billion that’s already properly owed.

      Not happening says Michel Barnier. Serious risk of fraud warns Michel Barnier… It’s almost as if Michel Barnier doesn’t trust the UK, and won’t take its word on anything. Can’t imagine why…. So many Honourable and right Honourable folks in the Palace of Westminster, this “Johnny Foreigner” ought to know his place…

      I can only speak for myself, but I trust Michel Barnier. Je suis Michel Barnier.

    114. galamcennalath says:

      I notice the phrase ‘clean Brexit’ has reappeared to mean a clean break withdrawal.

      Given the damage which would follow such an event, I think ‘clean’ wouldn’t be how ordinary folks found it! Very dirty seems a more likely outcome!

      Surely a Norway solution (at the other end of the spectrum) is cleanest? Ordinary folks won’t see much difference, yet English Nationalists can feel happy about being outside the EU. They might follow EU directives and standards to ensure economic and social stability, but in theory they have achieved their independence.

      Seems another case of where Brexit is concerned, white is black, and vice versa.

    115. Brian Powell says:

      On the UK threat of not paying, thick shit Tory boys abound in the Westminster establishment. The business the EU will pick up with the UK out of the EU will swamp the 39billion the dimwits are threatening not to pay.

    116. Capella says:

      @ Tinto Chiel – heard your “Raab C. Brexit” quip broadcast to the nation on GMS. 🙂

    117. Ken500 says:

      The white helmets have been evacuated by Israel.

    118. galamcennalath says:


      White Helmet

      I suppose an indication that the West has given up opposing the Assad regime.

    119. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Capella 9.35: really? I’m forbidden by my handler from listening to Radio Shortbread for bp/ general health reasons, especially now I’m out of polystyrene bricks.

      “Raab C Brexit” was someone else’s sublime creation (was it cearc?).

      Anyhow, it’s not plagiarism, it’s called recycling now 😛

    120. Lenny Hartley says:

      Manx news reporting some possible good news post Raab C Brexit (copywrite TC) .
      Apparently its a remote possibility that it will be harder to import furs into the UK, thats if enough MP’s can be bribed enough to change the law, tbh I added that bit anout bribery , but at least 90 secs of a news broadcast devoted to a good news brexit story 🙂 with interviews from fashion designers et all. Talk about scraping the bottom of a barrel!

    121. Capella says:

      @ Tinto Chiel – yes. Isobel Fraser, during a discussion on BREXIT, said that “some wag” had labelled him Raab
      C. Brexit for those who find it difficult to remember his name.

      Quiet chuckle time.

      I don’t normally listen to BBC London Calling either. But sometimes a bit of outrage gets you going in the morning.:)

    122. ahundredthidiot says:


      re White Helmets

      yeah, they’re all innocent aren’t they.

      Why run is my question.

    123. yesindyref2 says:

      I have to say that the EU was wrong in its sequencing of the Brexit negotiations, considering the short timescale. The amount owed – agreed at £39 billion – is a legal obligation, and could have been negotiated at the same time, in the certain knowledge from the EU’s point of view, that if the UK refused to pay, it can be taken to court, and if it refuses to pay after that, sanctions can be applied until payment. In this respect the EU has been unneccessarily dogmatic and obstructive, and quite silly with it.

      The rest of the problem is all caused by the UK, single-handedly.

    124. Danny says:

      Capella 10.14am

      What does the “C” stand for in the name Raab C Brexit?

      Just curious that’s all, lol.

    125. Robert Peffers says:

      @Petra says: 21 July, 2018 at 8:49 pm:

      … “An alternative point of view.
      (Very) Long Letter in the National submitted by Eddie Bone, Campaign Director, Campaign for an English Parliament:
      ”Some friendly advice from an English nationalist.”

      That guy is one seriously delusional (cough!), Patriotic, Blut und Boden English Nationalist, Petra.

      Utterly blind to the very obvious fact that with 533 English MPs, 40 Welsh MPs, 59 Scots MPs and 18 N.I MPs out of a total number of MPs at Westminster of 650 the total of MPs from England=533 and the combined total of non-England MPs = 117 to 533 that Westminster is in reality the unelected as such parliament of the country of England.

      If that was not enough for this, (cough!), Patriotic Englishman then the USE of EVEL proves the point that Westminster operates as the unelected as such, de facto Parliament of the country of England/

      It finances ONLY England as the United Kingdom with United Kingdom taxpayers money while making Block Grants to N.I., Scotland & Wales and Westminster decides the level of those block grants.

      Then the idiot champions federalism that cannot work with one federal unit of 533 and the combination of all others of 117.

      Not only that but Westminster uses only English Law to legislate and it treats its only Kingdom Partner in the United Kingdom as if it were an English dominion like Wales & N.I.

      The plain and simple truth is that United Kingdom means United KINGDOM it does not mean united country and there are only two kingdoms signed up the the Treaty of Union.

    126. sassenach says:

      Surely next week’s cartoon has to be an updated image involving Raab C.

    127. sassenach says:


      The C as in “C youse”, I presume!

    128. Danny says:

      Listening to John Major on the Marr Show and he says he is all for a second Referendum on Brexit because the people didn’t get what they were promised by the Brexiteers.

      Yet ask the same John major if Scotland should have a second Referendum on Scottish Independence and his answer is that the people of Scotland had their vote in 2014 and voted to stay within the UK. This answer is typical of all BritNat MPs.

      The sheer hypocrisy of the BritNat Remainers is breathtaking.

      They are all for Brexit2 but dead against IndyRef2.

      Do as I say, NOT as I do.

    129. Smallaxe says:

      Residents warned not to breach school of art cordon;

      Questions after BBC Scotland pulls ‘anti-Sturgeon interview’ programme from iPlayer;

      New electric trains to start running next week;

    130. Smallaxe says:

      Pete Wishart renews pressure on Scottish Tories over dark money donations;

      War with Iran would be ‘mother of all wars,’ Rouhani warns US;

      Ecuador’s president to hand Assange over to UK during London visit – Greenwald;

    131. call me dave says:

      I saw it in the Daily Mirror that the ‘C’ in Rab C Nesbit was a continuation of the family name

      Grandad Rab ‘A’
      Father Rab ‘B’
      Then of course our hero Rab ‘C’ Nesbit.

      Elaine C Smith says it’s true Mirror 2012. 🙂

    132. Golfnut says:

      I’m not sure what the actual timescale is ‘re the Forth Bridge, but from boyhood I was told that painting was all year round, start at one end, when finished, the cycle started again.

    133. Smallaxe says:

      I despair!;

      I disagree. My colleagues and I are desperate to come home but we have to get timing right and, frankly, next campaign will be short so people should be campaigning NOW or will be too late. I’m already doing meetings across Scotland.

      McAlpine raises unreliability of commuter services with rail operators;

    134. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Capella: so is that Isabel Fraser back in the fold now at PQ? I remember she was banished to France or somewhere for quizzing Ian “Bayonet The Wounded” Davidson a bit too closely with one of thae question hings he finds it hard to cope with and getting accused of being an SNP plant.

    135. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, I think the next campaign (after the date is announced) can and must be short. No longer than 3 months.

    136. mike cassidy says:

      Surely the C stands for champions.

      As in Raab Champions Brexit.

      And with his threat about not paying the debt, he really is championing brexit.

    137. yesindyref2 says:

      Anyways, my previous post about the “unreasonableness” of the EU in its negotiations is really a flyer setting the ground for another alternative for the UK, in the event of a no-deal.

      The UK then presents a submission to the ECJ which adjudicates on the Lisbon Treaty, that the EU-27 have not negotiated in terms of the Article 50 and Article 218(3) of the TFEU, in that it has caused unneccesary and unreasonable delays in the 2 year timetable, and that therefore the 2 year deadline should be extended by say 2 years (or until 31st December 2021).

      The ECJ first consiers the competence of the case, and then sets a date for hearings, with a further date for the judgement. Meanwhile there is the equivalent of an interim interdict on the EU chucking the UK out of the EU. So the UK gets its transition period whether the EU-27 likes it or not.

    138. HandandShrimp says:

      Listening to the radio review of the papers this morning, Dave Pratt and Fiona Ross didn’t seem to think that the lurch to the far right in England would have any impact on the position of independence in Scotland.

      I am not convinced.

    139. Smallaxe says:

      In this episode of Head to Head, Mehdi Hasan challenges Danny Ayalon on whether Israel is responsible for the recent killings of Palestinians following months of protests along the Gaza fence.;

      No Deal Brexit would mean no more UK;

      Have a great Sunday, Wingers.

    140. Macart says:


      Thanks for the punt. 🙂


      Dr Whitford isn’t wrong. It will be short, of necessity it’ll be short. The statement tells you something else too.

      I doubt there’s more than a handful of people around the FM who have an idea of the precise timing of it and that’s a good thing.

      Pretty sure the pro Westminster parties would like to know that timing too. The opposition are fishing like mad. They’re provoking. They’re desperate and they’re in the dark. Keeping them there seems like a good idea t’me. 😎

    141. Capella says:

      @ Tinto Chiel – whenever I hear the Sunday programme Isobel Fraser and Gordon Brewer are the anchors. Isobel is a very sharp and insightful interviewer whenever I hear her. So obviously not weekday GMS grade.

    142. Smallaxe says:


      You’re welcome, my friend. Always interesting and to the point.

    143. yesindyref2 says:

      I’m glad we have a Peter A Bell. I don’t always agree with him, but he is desperately needed to keep the focus and pressure.

    144. Albert Herring says:

      “C” stands for “Cocksup”.

    145. Clapper57 says:

      @ Brian Powell says: @ 22 July, 2018 at 9:31 am

      “On the UK threat of not paying, thick shit Tory boys abound in the Westminster establishment. The business the EU will pick up with the UK out of the EU will swamp the 39billion the dimwits are threatening not to pay”.

      Yes Brian…blackmail… is it not a fitting strategy to be deployed by the party who abducted our freedom to work and live in the EU……two years plus ( plus being additional time instigators of plot throughout EU Ref campaign had to devise a plan) to have to resort to impromptu tactics which is clearly an act of desperation adopted by those devoid of any real Brexit solution.

      No doubt the rabid Brexiteer Gammons will applaud this tactic as they did not want to pay anyway…..if nothing else it ends the ridiculous notion of ‘Brits sense of fair play’…a self indulgent fantasy generated only to ensure the ‘opposite’ side would concede to their will…..latest Brexit strategy (lack of) being a classic example.

      Brexit is what happens when a political party reacts to populism but fails to consider and plan for the consequences when the wrong outcome is achieved… that really IS a definition of putting one’s party before one’s country….a la David Cameron et al….

    146. Smallaxe says:

      Jacob Rees-Mogg’s fund house launches second Irish fund;

    147. Danny says:

      As others above have said, there seems to be a bit of mileage in “Raab C Brexit” that we could run with, not least the Wings resident artist.


      String vest and all. With Mary Doll and Jamesie and Ella Cotter lurking.

    148. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Ken500 at 9.39

      As it has become common knowledge that their other day job was as murdering Islamic fanatics and child beheaders trying to unseat the legitimate elected government of Syria their usefulness was at an end.

    149. Smallaxe says:

      Scots Tory Richard Cook faces renewed scrutiny over political links amid row over £425,000 Brexit donation;

    150. galamcennalath says:

      Danny says:

      … the people of Scotland had their vote in 2014 and voted to stay within the UK. … The sheer hypocrisy of the BritNat Remainers is breathtaking.

      Yes. BritNat Remainers are BritNats foremost.

      Personally I’m not keen on an EURef2 for multiple reasons.

      My main one is, suppose Holyrood call and win a consultative Indyref2, then after negotiations on the exit deal the BritNats start calling for an IndyRef3! EURef2 sets a bad precedent.

      If there were to be an EURef2 it SHOULD address the biggest failure of the the first one which was pre-defining what happens when NI and Scotland vote to Remain again, should England vote to leave? There isn’t a snowball in Hell’s chance WM will inbuild solutions!

      I might support EURef2 if Scotland got a supplementary question … “in the event Scotland votes to remain, while the UK votes as a whole to leave, should Scotland become an independent country?”

      And, IMO the circumstances around EURef1 haven’t changed in the same way Indyref1 have. The Withdrawal Agreement seems straightforward and could be signed to give a transition period to work out the future relationship. The promises made in EURef1 can be delivered if TMay would get her act together. An EURef2 on the WA seems unnecessary.

      By contrast, Indyref2 was won with promises which will never be delivered. The failure to give NOs what they wanted is massive. While around half of NOs were ideological BritNats, the other half weren’t. They voted NO to get more Devo, to stay in the EU, to maintain the status quo they felt comfortable with, or because the UK seemed the low risk option for their future. All change. What these people wanted is not what they got!

      As you say, the BritNats of any flavour won’t concede any of that. Hypocrisy is their middle name.

    151. Dr Jim says:

      When the media call someone an expert that means everything they say is worth more than what everybody else says, that’s official no matter the subject the expert is an expert on

      I’ve heard experts on milk offering their expert knowledge on how Baad the SNP are, I’ve heard experts on *dog food sales* become economic experts who also agree that the SNP are terribly Baad

      I’ve heard expert wee lassies who were once in a pretendy political party who never got a vote in their lives on anything pontificate on the SNPs Baadness and even write whole columns of words in newspapers

      I hear expert *journalists* who expound their knowledge daily on the subject of how Baad are the SNP

      Every other day we hear from experts who were once in the SNP and have since been sacked also inform us of how Baad the SNP are

      All these experts are paraded on our tellys and in the newspapers with monotonous regularity, someone more cynical than me would have to ask the question are the media in Scotland short of actual experts that they have to keep recycling the same ones over and over and over to say that even if the SNP cured all cancers tomorrow they would still be Baad because they refuse to cure the common cold and people are suffering with snotters blinding them and all the pyschological and mental health damage that accompanies that life ruining condition

      This morning I watched an actual expert on Conservative party politics 40 years in the Tory party Dominic Grieve agree and explain clearly and expertly that everything the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon has been saying about referendums and democracy is 100% correct

      Except he didn’t mention the SNP

      Funny that!

    152. yesindyref2 says:

      Absolutely and there are other signs.

      It doesn’t stop us playing the game of course.

    153. Dr Jim says:

      Foreigners are bad, the EU are bad, the Irish are bad, the SNP are bad


    154. yesindyref2 says:

      I thnk there’s mileage in this Raab C Brexit thing, found an excuse to post it on the Herald.

    155. Effijy says:

      I recall the Unionist parties threatening Scotland that
      If we didn’t hand over huge fictional debts to Westminster
      On the back of Independance, the EU and all other trade
      Markets would disassociate themselves with Scotland.

      Scotland owed Westminster nothing.
      We have no legal contract to that affect
      and yet here we have lying devious Westminster
      Suggesting that they can walk away from the EU
      and rip up legal agreements and refuse payments
      That they guaranteed?

      As we have recently seen, it took Canada 7 years to
      Broker a Trade Deal with the EU and Japan 8 years.

      Let’s pretend Westminster was good at negotiating and
      We’re in a strong position and they could broker a deal in
      5 years. What do the UK manufacturers and producers do
      And what would their former employees do for those 5 years?

      Please recognise that these businesses would be gone for good at
      That point and the U.K. would be looking at 10 years of recession after
      10 years of austerity.

      In business this week, I spoke with the owner of a small specialist engineering company owner
      Who was selling out to a German company.
      He knows of similar sales in negotiation.
      The owners see the Brexit future closing them down and so sell cheap rather than end with nothing.

      The Germans operate and export these goods as normal and if Brexit Trariffs make life here
      Impossible, they relocate the order book, equipment and jobs to Germany.

      If noticed this over the last year with Dutch, Finish and German companies buying our manufacturers.

      The one and only good thing about Brexit will be Scottish Independance!

    156. Robert Peffers says:

      @Famous15 says: 21 July, 2018 at 9:40 pm:

      ” … The BBC headlines the painting of the new Forth Bridge taking two years.”

      I think you may be missing the point there, Famous15.

      The old rail-bridge painting was a necessary continuous routine maintenance task but the painting job on the new crossing is termed, “Snagging-work”, That is necessary completion work in the wake of the initial construction.

      Such work cannot be done as the construction progresses as the bits to be finished are not all in place until completion.

      This painting will not be a continuous maintenance task after it has been finished. The painting is like the other, “Snagging-work”, tasks, like sealing the gaps between sections of the roadway deck after sections are assembled.

    157. Smallaxe says:

      When Mp’s talk like me. Ruth, Theresa and Nicola;

    158. galamcennalath says:

      Came across this from January. It’s long, too long for me to read right now. It’s about corporate pressure to drive Brexit. The fact that there is so much here is an eye opener in itself!

      Half of it is Further Reading and Resources!

      What stands out for me, from my skip reading, is the part played by the sugar industry. We know they want us to eat lots of the stuff, and to help do so, they want cheap tariff free imports from Brazil. The EU gives preference to sugar beet growers and selective expensive cane imports. Remove the EU from the equation and the sugar industry will flourish!

    159. Breeks says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      22 July, 2018 at 11:02 am
      I’m glad we have a Peter A Bell. I don’t always agree with him, but he is desperately needed to keep the focus and pressure.

      I don’t like the SNP’s strategy, but with several reservations, I am now resigned to it.

      It’s my own personal belief that Independence will be determined by winning a victory in a Constitutional Law Court, which renders a referendum on Independence obsolete. That doesn’t mean to say our Independence would be undemocratic, because even with our Constitutional Sovereignty affirmed, it’s supporting international recognition would be greatly strengthened if ratified by a constitutional Plebiscite.

      To that extent, I am now very relaxed about having an IndyRef at all. Perhaps, (let me stress perhaps), it is no bad thing to leave time for an Independence Referendum impractically short, to help selling the notion of a ratification plebiscite held after the watershed event whereby Treaty(ies) of Union has/have been declared breached, and the Union has ceased to exist.

      What I would like to see however is more transparency, just to confirm this schedule of events and strategy is not a figment of my imagination, but actually IS the Independence Strategy the Scottish Government is working to. This IS the plan isn’t it?

      I see and hear what Mike Russell has to say, and I note the caution and guarded remarks appropriate for a minefield prepared for Westminster to walk into. But then along comes an SNP “big yin”, and starts promoting an altogether different agenda on an altogether different timescale, such an IndyRef in 2020 or some damned thing. WTF???

      It creates a need in me to double check and make sure what the plan is. Why oh why are we even contemplating a referendum in 2019, or 2020, or whenever, IF the main plan is to secure our Constitutional emancipation from the Union and UK Government, and make it all happen before March 2019 in order to save Scotland from Brexit. That IS the plan isn’t it???

      I don’t get it. Is the SNP ruthlessly stalking the Westminster Government poised to spring like a Constitutional Tiger just waiting for the perfect moment to strike? Or is the overall strategy fractured, muddled, confused, with no core strategy except for a hotch potch of conflicting ideas and an indisciplined rabble of loose cannons who all have different ideas on how to secure Independence?

      I read what Peter Bell says and wonder if I know something which Peter Bell does not, or whether Peter Bell knows something I don’t. The Scottish Government clearly sees advantage in being enigmatic about its strategy, but breaking Enigma Codes can be difficult for ordinary people.

    160. Arabs for Independence says:

      Anyone not supporting Raab C Brexit will be accused of being an anti-simmit

    161. Liz g says:

      Breeks @ 12.07
      I don’t think it’s our head’s Holyrood are playing with!

    162. Tinto Chiel says:

      @AfI: quite so: he represents some powerful vested interests.

      Or is RCB just stringing us along?

      Ok, ok, moff!

    163. yesindyref2 says:

      I think it’s plans and plans, reacting and anticipating what Westminster might get up to. And as Liz g says, playing with heads – something a few of us are happy to help with in our own little way.

      As for Court, that seems to be becoming more a part of it, with the first instalment on Tuesday and Wednesday though apparently the judgement isn’t due to October – which might well be a very fortunate timing, one way or another. But whatever happens I think it needs to be originated or confirmed by a referendum, to determine the will of the People – as is the sovereign right under the Claim of Right. Same goes for continued or otherwise EU membership, and this could unite the Remainers and Leavers who are already YES. Even Sillars might vote YES!

    164. Shinty says:

      Liz g says:
      22 July, 2018 at 12:25 pm
      Breeks @ 12.07
      I don’t think it’s our head’s Holyrood are playing with!

      Yes, I think all this talk on indyref2 (this year, next year, 2021) is all a big fudge.
      The British Nationalists are shiting themselves as they cannot guess when it will be called. (as it should be)

      Unfortunately, it keeps us in the dark too, but that’s OK. If it’s pissing off the Brit Nats and having them froth at the mouth, suck it up, you won last time, get over it.

    165. yesindyref2 says:


    166. Kangaroo says:


      It’s the fog of war. Don’t give your enemy any clues. Fire your big guns at a specific time and at a specific target.

      The clock is ticking and the Brexit mess keeps getting worse, “No Deal” looks like the front runner now. Barnier’s answer to the White Paper included a statement to the effect that there will be no transition and no trade deal in the event that the Withdrawal Agreement is not concluded satisfactorily. He also stated that this meant sorting out Cyprus, Gibraltar and Northern Ireland.

      Given Westminster’s and DUP intransigence and “Raab C” backflipping on the £39bn then “No Deal” is well in front at the moment.

      Supreme Court Continuity Bill
      I have read the various submissions and these just confirmed my previous position that the Scottish Government will win the case. This makes UK Trade Deals extremely difficult without getting the Scottish Government to agree the UK wide frameworks. Judgement not till October.

      Court case re A50 unilateral revocation
      Has anyone heard anything about this. A judgement was supposed to be out “very soon” after the case and its been weeks?

    167. Iain mhor says:

      @galamcennalath 12:02pm

      Interesting reading which helps flesh out “follow the money”
      What it also purports to show, is that the overarching policy of ‘repatriating powers’ from the EU is entirely consistent with repatriating Scotland’s devolved powers. That is not a temporary policy which arose in order to facilitate Brexit negotiations, but is (and probably always was for years) an integral part of the plans under the mantra of ‘taking back control’

    168. Cactus says:

      Their (the tories) best offer is re-shredded bullshit, EU knows.

      Anybuddy played this tune yesterday / today…


      (Guest starring Dateline 2018’s… David Baker.)

      He kens a thing or thirteen. 🙂

      Set them right on GMS today Rev, I’ll await the posted article you-tube video later today, cheers…

      Oh wait!

    169. Cactus says:

      Here’s a wee thought Rev… as you’re going LIVE ON TV later this morning (Good Morning Scotland), you could always take them in a gift, to present to each of the co-presenters ON-AIR…

      Mibbies a Wings badge or a WBB. 🙂

      Enjoy today.

      August 1.

      X to go.

    170. Cactus says:

      Cool, just realised that GMS is a show on the radio (even better, I’ve got the DAB.)

      Hehe thought it was a TV show there.

      Hear ye in the morning.

      Take em a WBB.

    171. Cactus says:

      Enjoy your trip to the studio, good lyrics: 😉

      We can post vidoes.

    172. Cactus says:

      Ah cannae even think where to begin on the main cool thread.

      SO much has happened in such a short time.

      That’s the quickening like.

      Turn it up to twelve.

      BBC, ur fucked!

      Wings fly.

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