Wings Over Scotland

Another piece of graphical brilliance to sum up the huge disconnect between the English government’s view of itself and how the rest of us see them. Thanks.

Perfect portrait of the facts.

Rock on Indy2

The Tories will have to have a GE they will lose to get out of the shamble. The Tories have already cheated and lied helped by Labour, the LibDems and others. DUP criminals. All completely useless. No one wants the poison chalice.

Baillie, Davidson etc all at it again. With the broken abacus. Can’t count or read a balance sheet. Who would believe the nonsense? What is costing Scotland more is Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident, the illegal wars. The mismanagement of the Scottish revenues by Westminster. The McCrone Report kept hidden.

Oil & Gas sector taxed too high when prices had fallen. Costing £Billions and thousands of jobs. Scotland could have had full employment. The fish industry throwing dead fish back for years. Instead of using bigger nets like Norway. The farming sector. Mad cow came from Alabama cost £Billions. For over ten years. The Scottish EU Cap payments were illegally taken by the UK Treasury and given to wealthier farmers in the South. Scotland as part of the UK receives the lowest CAP payments in the EU.

£Billions have been lost to Scotland because of Westminster secrecy and lies. Iraq, Dunblane and Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years. They hide there criminal activities under the Official Secrets Act.

Now Brexit which will cost Scotland £Billions. The unionists Party liars support it. The Tories would be gone but the unionists in Westminster support them. They either do not turn up to vote or abstain. The bigger bunch of useless incompetents ever put on the planet. They are a complete bunch of imbeciles. The state of them. Trying to take the UK out of the EU. It would be back in within two years.

Trying to use the migration crisis they have caused to destroy the world economy. They are already sanctioning and starving people. The psycho bastards. The complete and utter shambles.

Thank goodness for the SNP Gov mitigating their damage and for caring.

Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Scotland Independent in the EU. Vote for prosperity, equality, fairness, peace and justice.

Random rants – I was going to use a pretend HTML tag ‘random-rants’, but it was being interpreted as a real tag.

Every week, just when you think they can’t get any worse, they do. The scary thing is, this is the future of the country they’re trashing because of ideological differences. Can’t they see the damage that they’re doing? I’m almost beginning to believe the conspiracy theorists that they are just trashing the country so they can make lots of money by owning the private companies that will be set up when we can no longer have the health service.

Sometimes I think, they’ll sort something out before April’s fool day next year and then I think nuh, they won’t and it will be the planes not flying scenario. And before you even think about schadenfreude, even if Scotland is independent, we’ll be dragged down with them.

I don’t know if I’m repeating myself, but I remember before the EU ref, watching something, it might have been Question time or it might have been one of the general debates, but at one point a pro-leave person said, ‘We can stay in the single market’ and then later on said ‘We’ll be able to get rid of freedom of movement’. Not one person pulled him up on it by pointing out the EU wouldn’t allow both.

In the same debate (and I use the term loosely) I also remember shouting at the telly ‘What about Ireland?’ cause nobody was even thinking about it.

Some genuine questions.
1) See those Henry VIII powers that Theresa was going to use (I can’t remember if she did or not), well would they apply to Scotland because Henry VIII was never King of Scotland and so the law that allowed these preceded the act of Union and might not have applied to us.

2) Since Health is devolved and there are 4 health services, when we make a trade deal with the US (because that’s going to save us), one of the things the septic-tanks are going to want is access to health. Now assuming the Tories are still in power, then they’re going to try and negotiate those away, but they won’t be able to (as it is devolved). So what will happen? Will they just centralise health again?

More genius from Chris.

People divide into two groups on their perception of Brexit …

1) 99% of the world’s population include most Scots who see the reality

2) some of the UK population who either can’t see, won’t see, or pretend not to see the reality

The EU hold ALL the cards. The UK has nothing to negotiate with. The only solutions available are those which the EU has put on the table for almost two years. Their position is clear, rock solid, unchanging, and they will stick with it.

Here’s yet another excellent and accurate appraisal of where the UK has put itself from foreign press …

link to nytimes.com

… the contrast between UK and foreign media is truly staggering.

Sturgeon’s strategy is being proved right, let them tear themselves apart and then strike.

It is also clear labour are in as much chaos as the tories and Corbyn is a brexiteer.

English politics has an utterly toxic impact on its neighbours!

@Tom
I agree, the EU is perfectly prepared to let us stew in a country with no agreed standards on just about anything. No transport links, no imports, no exports, including power topups from France which means power cuts and brownouts. EU citizens stranded here, UK folk stranded in the continent and everywhere else.

Then it will dawn that we need access to the standards bodies, but they are all EU entities now. So we will need to negotiate with the EU for that access. Having been rowed across the channel the negotiating team will meat the EU who will, like sad but stern grownups, take the little children through reality one more time.

If all that doesn’t make folk in Scotland wake up to the necessity of a Yes vote nothing will. All the talk of a ‘people’s Brexit referendum’ etc is just causing people to clutch at a straw of hope that Brexit can be stopped. Only when all those hopes are dashed will they come round. Edinburgh voted more than 70% to Remain. They will find out how much they care about that.

It’s a strange thing to wish for this scenario, but having chapped doors in indyref1 I cannot see anything else working. People have to be jolted out of their comfortable reflex ‘it will all work out alright’. But ScotGov need to find their balls over IndyRef2 soon.

And, of course, arrogant and destructive Westminster blames the EU because the shredder was made in Belgium.

@doug_bryce
Spot on – it’s this narrative framing that’s been annoying me recently too. The UK has the choice of a set menu, not à la carte. At best they can maybe choose which condiments they want.

All this talk about “the right deal” and “negotiations” is nonsense, but the brexiters (and media) are happy to propagate it in order to maintain tension and conflict, and to blame the EU when their unworkable nonsense is rebuffed. For example, um, the front page of todays right wing papers.

The frustrating, hair-pulling, teeth-grinding part of it is that for anyone who cares to look into it, this is all SO DAMN OBVIOUS. But many Leavers are happy to be wilfully misled to in order to justify their choice and reinforce their prejudices. Basically, their justification has eroded down to “the EU don’t like it, so it must be good”.

I think if you asked the UK Cabinet what the UK Brexit plan is you would get 35 different answers.

…and there are only 23 of them.

I think this is a great innovative idea to further Indy2 votes.
Have a look.

link to businessforscotland.com

HandandShrimp says:
21 July, 2018 at 11:02 am
I think if you asked the UK Cabinet what the UK Brexit plan is you would get 35 different answers.

If you ask one member of the Cabinet what the UK Brexit plan is 35 times, you will get 35 different answers.

They haven’t a scooby. It’s a complete and utter shambles.

@Calum McKay says: 21 July, 2018 at 9:26 am:

” … It is also clear labour are in as much chaos as the tories and Corbyn is a brexiteer.”

Tell you what, Calum, way back in the mid 1940s I was just a schoolboy but was even then interested in politics. WWII was just ended and the United Kingdom was still under wartime austerity measures like rationing:-

“Fourteen years of food rationing in Britain ended at midnight on 4 July 1954, when restrictions on the sale and purchase of meat and bacon were lifted. This happened nine years after the end of the war.”

There wasn’t much entertainments and TV had never actually got to Scotland so you had to make your own entertainments and pastimes. My main one being reading. However, even that was difficult as the publishing business hadn’t got going again.

So I would spend my Saturday mornings trawling round the many second hand shops & bookshops in Edinburgh Old Town looking for anything of interest I could afford. If I managed to find anything and it was a fine day I would make my way to Greyfriar’s Graveyard where it was peaceful and quiet an sit there reading.

There was an old gentleman who also often sat there reading and we struck up a conversation about old books. The Old gent turned out to be a distinguished, semi-retired, King’s Council with a life long interest in Scottish History – an interest I shared. The old man was also a life-long supporter of he Scottish Nationalist movement and I learned a great deal from that old Nationalist but probably the most valuable thing I learned was that the Parliament of the so called United Kingdom was, and always had been, a sham.

There never really was a party political system nor a democracy in Westminster. It was always just window dressing to fool the Hoi Polloi into believing anything other than the same old Germanic royalty and aristocracy were running things to suit the royalty and aristocracy and Westminster always was, “The Westminster Establishment” – The political wing of the elite ruling classes that have ruled most of the British Isles at least as long as documented history records.

Westminster is, and always has been a false-front to fool the British under classes into believing they are a sovereign people who democratically elect a government of the people’s choice.

The legality is somewhat different. First of all, under the, three country, Kingdom of England’s “Rule of Law”, the Monarch of he Kingdom of England, that annexed the Principality of Wales in 1284 and the Kingdom of Ireland in 1542, is legally sovereign and thus the people(s), of the three Kingdom of England countries are Their Majesty of England’s subjects.

However, in 1688, the parliament of England, (then the English aristocracy), revolted against the rightful monarch of England, (who also wore the Independent Kingdom of Scotland’s still independent Crown, they deposed that monarch and imported yet another of the Germanic elite royals of Europe to become monarchs of the Kingdom of England. On the condition that they legally delegated their sovereign powers to the Parliament of the Kingdom of England but Scotland, in 1688 was still an independent kingdom and thus the English Rule of law could not legally be applied to Scotland where the people of Scotland had been legally sovereign from at least 1320 by the Declaration of Arbroath.

So the situation at Westminster was/is that the Monarch of England, Wales and Ireland remains legally sovereign and all their subjects in the Kingdom of England are legally their Majesty’s subjects.

Nowhere is there any evidence, legal or otherwise, that their Majestys’ of England are legally sovereign in Scotland. Furthermore, the Germanic elite rulers and the English aristocracy heirs are still sitting in the House of Lords as Hereditary peers today and the Queen of England is still legally sovereign under the English Rule of law That does not apply under the Scottish rule of law.

So Westminster is actually, “The Unionist Establishment”, and all three Unionist political parties are parts of, “The Establishment”, and have throughout history, always stood shoulder to shoulder at times when, “The Establishment”, is under threat.

In both World Wars the first Westminster action, (after declaring war), was for Her/His Majesty to call in Their Majesty’s [rime Minister and command him/her to form an Establishment coalition as heir Majesty’s wartime Government.

We see the same effects today when the Scottish Government is a threat to the Union – the entire Westminster Establishment, including their media stand shoulder to shoulder against the enemy of the Union.

There are no political parties in the union against Holyrood there is only unionists against The People of Scotland. The party leaders at Westminster and those in their Scotland branch offices are just unionists against Scotland.

O/T:

News Item on the text service:-

Extra Demand on Highland Foodbank Network.

Blythswood Care’s Highland Foodbank has seen an increased demand with children not having access to free school meals. They are asking for donations of tinned and dry food.

Brilliant image says all that anyone needs to know about Tory and Labour Brexit they have never had any intention of a plan. They are consumed by money, lots and lots of it, preferably other peoples’ money.

Re;Tom@8.30am

‘Will they centralise health again?’. ‘Health’ has never been ‘centralised’ and any powers removed from the Scottish parliament would not be centralising them, it would be reserving them, ie removing from another countries’ jurisdiction, a coup in effect.

Scotland’s NHS has always been independent from England’s and rUK, as has education, and law. We have what’s called Scots Law.

I have met in the past couple of days, three Scottish people who it was great to chat with about mainly Brexit. One lovely woman at our allotments, when I mentioned food security, she was saying what we all know, what a disaster Brexit is and will be. She was though, thinking Scotland maybe ‘couldn’t do it’, re independence, ie, too poor. So we talked for ages about that. She said she ‘should read more about it’. Hope she visits WOS. Working in the royal mail, it sounded like she isn’t alone in her thinking, and she said they have an attitude of ‘divide and conquer’ at her work. ‘Pitting people against each other’. How scary is that then, who knows what tactics are being used even in workplaces!

The others, taxi drivers, who were both sceptical about Scotland’s chances in the EU and out of the UK, one said that Brexit might not be as scary as they are saying because, ‘they said these things about devolution’, ie it would be a disaster, but it turned out OK. He knows someone working at Australia bank in Scotland, the bank is talking about moving their operations out of Scotland and instead to London! Doesn’t sound ‘OK’.

I didn’t know there was an Australia bank in Scotland.

So the jist is, Brexit might be OK, and it’s all scare mongering and Scotland can’t do independence.

The onslaught of propaganda is brainwashing some, perhaps too many and it’s scary.

More Blue Books, or yellow or whatever colour…and info on how people do not have to pay the tx tax if they have the internet, there are many ways to get your information. The UKgov are working on people, it’s subtle, and it’s dangerous. They rely on people not making informed choices at the ballot box. They rely on hearsay, and soundbites and ultimately, lies, dressed up as information.

Artyhetty @ 12:53 pm

You wrote: “The others, taxi drivers, who were both sceptical about Scotland’s chances in the EU and out of the UK, one said that Brexit might not be as scary as they are saying because, ‘they said these things about devolution’, ie it would be a disaster, but it turned out OK. ….. So the jist is, Brexit might be OK, and it’s all scare mongering and Scotland can’t do independence.”

Your post is a stark reminder of the multiple facets of the case making that is likely to be required to achieve a substantial shift in views in favour of independence under present circumstances. Namely, to convince voters in Scotland that:

1) the UK’s exit from the EU will be ‘bad’ and/or bring greater economic, social and environmental uncertainty for people and businesses in Scotland .. as well as for those in the rUK – and not just in the short but also the longer term i.e. for our young people.

2) in contrast, Scotland’s independence will deliver a better AND a more certain future than the one in prospect for Scotland if we remain within a UK out of the EU.

3) moreover, Scotland’s independence will deliver a better and more certain future whether we subsequently opt for our own EU membership OR some other relationship with the EU – fundamentally, an independent Scotland is both feasible and the safer, more certain proposition. Importantly, it will give us (and our young people) in Scotland the agency that we currently do not possess and which may well be further diminished if we remain in a UK.

4) and actually Scotland’s independence can also deliver a better and more certain future in terms of our relationship with the resulting independent Kingdom of England with Wales and NI – tackling the British Nationalist fear agenda around access for an independent Scotland to the greater England market.

For all of the above, and given the various points made in your own post, it seems that it will be highly personal value judgements on an independent Scotland’s strengths and opportunities as they will directly impact individual/family well-being versus perspectives on risks and threats to this well-being in a ‘Scotland still in the Union’ that need to be influenced.

My sense is that for those yet to be convinced, it will be perspectives on threats (rather than opportunities) to personal well-being that will be more influential initially in terms of stimulating the doubters’ re-appriasal of the case for independence.

You caught Raab C Brexit’s phizog perfectly, Chris.

Not long now before Mr Barnier, with some regret yet understandable relief, quietly shepherds a delusional John Bull down the panelled corridor to the darkened library, where a bottle of single malt and a loaded service revolver lie on the desk.

JB’s last words: “This’ll show ’em we’re not bluffing!”

Thanks Artyhetty & Muscleguy – my worry is even if independent and with EU support, we’ll be in the same situation as Ireland. No direct contact with the rest of Europe, everything will have to travel not via England. Therefore we’d be buggered as well.

At least we export electricity to England. They’ll be having blackouts before we would, and I remember the 70s.

And my comment about Health, I feel that if the UK as a whole were to make a deal with the US, then they would want access to the health service. And that ain’t happening as far as I am concerned, not the Scottish one at least.

Should we Scots be making more of demanding our own broadcasting? If westminster once again refuse we should go to the UN and say that England’s parliamentarians are refusing Scotland its voice using their inbuilt majority. We must decolonise ourselves or we may find that westminster taking ever more drastic measures to hold onto our resources whilst suppressing us possibly out of existence with the help of our so called unionists.

OT
It is fun though engaging with either really dumb unionists or outright trolls, whichever they are. But you also find out stuff if you have time to follow through and can be bothered. Better than working all the same.

There was talk of the Celine on a thread, Ireland’s new ferry it’s put on to be ready for Brexit and transporting goods direct to the EU rather than through the UK. The Celine can take 700 trailers, and the lanes are 8 km long in total.

His claim was that it could only take 0.1% of Ireland’s exports, even a quick check makes that more like 8% to 10%, though it could be less as that’s through its ports in total, and you do get air freight (expensive).

Then his claim is that a trailer could only take 100 Kg of oranges. Mmm, think about that, you have a trailer going on a ferry from Zeebrugge to Dublin, having got there in the first place taken by a cab and taken away by a cab to somewhere once unloaded by the port shuttles.

Then you have 1kg of oranges for £2 each (couldn’t find a price quickly that’s satsumas from Morrisons). But that’s not what Morrisons pay, say £1 for a total of £100 that Morrisons have paid – for a whole trailer load of 100Kg?

Don’t know the cost of a trailer from Zeebrugge to Dublin but it must be £2,000 or upwards, last figure I knew was £800 for I think Wemyss Bay to Rothesay a few years back.

I’d said a trailer can take 30 tonnes, and some are 44 and you can get more. Just for interest I worked out how many boxed oranges you could get for say a 90 cubic metre capacity, and the total comes to 36 tonnes from an online guide. It’d be less as they’d be on pallets, but 36 tonnes is just a little more than 100 Kg = 0.1 tonne. Out by a factor of 360.

Where on earth do they get these people? Kindergarten?

@Calum McKay says: 21 July, 2018 at 2:21 pm:

” … This westminster con game is perpetuated by all Scottish MPs, including the SNP who take their seats in that house.”

Not true, Calum, The SNP members at Westminster are far and away the hardest working group in Westminster but you have to watch the Westminster live web video to see just how hard they do work for you are not going to find out from the MSM. SMSM or the state funded and state supporting broadcasters.

Anyway – to get down to brass tacks. There are only two methods that have ever proved to gain any dominion country their independence and the vast majority of the Globe has at one time or another been under Westminster dominion. a.k.a. domination.

Even the USA itself was a Westminster colony. Those two ways can be viewed side by side in the country of Ireland and one of those ways is far from being finalised and has just slipped back into the other way.

There is the way taken by India and the total death toll in that continent can never be known and as for the USA, and North America in general the native Americans will never regain their country for it was the European immigrants that fought and died to free themselves from Westminster domination.

As did the immigrant populations of such as New Zealand. So there you go – armed combat and revolution has never won any former colony their freedom from Westminster. Those colonies that won freedom had first killed off the native populations or caused massive deaths among their native peoples as on the Indian continent and in Africa.

Now look at the country of Ireland. The North is still under Westminster control but only around 50% of the population are of proper Irish descent. These were the ones NOT parts of the several, “Plantations”, of Scots, Welsh and English people into Ireland who drove the Irish from their lands.

The south fared little better and armed conflict went on for centuries before the south declared their independence. That independence was not achieved until it was officially declared a republic in 1949, following the Republic of Ireland Act 1948.

So there you go – if you want to see armed conflict and Scots dying on our streets then try and find someone other than the SNP and you will have a really hard job finding those who will volunteer to die for Scotland.

Especially as we are within touching distance with the SNP. And you do not need to look very far to see what will happen when a government in power is challenged by a colony demanding, peacefully, their independence.

Look at Spain and their colony of Catalonia.

@twathater
There’s been reports that show all these including businesses and business organisations are keeping a very close eye on it all, but until there’s some certainty they’re going to – rightly – mark their time while making general concerns known.

There may come a tipping point …

@ yesindyref2 4.30pm

I know what you are saying , but you as a businessman explore anything and everything that will bring you success and discount the negatives , what I am saying is although businesses are monitoring the situation they should also be open to the alternatives , they should be inviting Nicola to their premises to explain to them and their employees what the SG are doing and proposing to protect their jobs and employment

We complain that not enough people get to hear of the advantages of independence , this would be a chance to get the wider message out , tell the TRUTH about the power grab , allow people to question and raise their concerns , we know how Nicola charms people , she can also explain the imminent danger to our SNHS and Scottish Water from a TTIP type deal , and it allows converts who will then take the message further , it would also allow the employer to realise what she is attempting to do to protect his/hers business and Scotland

@twathater
I think the organisations themselves are having some talks with the SG, but businesses mostly don’t like to do politics. Even my own micro business, I steer clear of Indy. There again I do put the Saltire on my products and websites.

OT defence.
I don’t think subs are an option to start with for Indy, but here’s an interesting small conventional sub design,

link to bmtdsl.co.uk

The Vidar-7 requires a crew of 15 which is manageable, surge 21. Interesting write-up here:

link to quwa.org

more detail

link to bmtdsl.co.uk

Can’t find cost, maybe £200 million to £400 million, relatively cheap through life cost.

Up to 9,000 British heroes who served Queen and country are homeless after leaving the military, a Sunday Mirror investigation reveals today.
Shockingly, ex-service personnel account for one in 10 rough sleepers across the UK.

Is the information above less important than Military Officers who are based in Scotland, and earning £35,000 per annum, paying £2 per week in extra tax to rebalance the pay of ordinary soldiers?

It would be good to hear more about current thinking from across the Scottish business community.

One can imaging that for Scottish businesses involved in exporting (i.e. those presently trading with ‘anywhere’ outside the UK), retention of EU membership, which is an option with Scottish independence, surely offers them much certainty:

(i) it offers continuity in trade with the EU on similar terms as at present for those that expert to this market

(ii) it offers continuity in trade with the many third countries that the EU already has a formal preferential trade agreement with (link to ec.europa.eu ) – and now also with the recently established deals with Canada and Japan; and

(iii) it also offers some considerable certainty over the principles/conditions under which future trade agreements with third countries will be concluded by the EU – there is plenty of prior evidence of the basis on which the EU addresses its members’ interests in trade.

The future of the UK’s bilateral trade deals – the principles to be adopted and the terms that will be accepted – with countries outside the EU are much more uncertain – never mind uncertainties over which countries and concluded when.

Again for exporters, an independent Scotland taking membership of the EEA via EFTA brings similar certainty over trade with the EU, plus access to the internal and external (third country) trade agreements already put in place for EFTA itself.

For Scottish exporters concerned with achieving certainty for their business going forward, there are likely to be a few other high level factors on their minds right now: (i) waiting/hoping for Brexit to somehow not happen; (ii) waiting to see if the UK will stay in the single market or something close to it after all; and (iii) assessing risks and uncertainties associated with Scottish independence – will these (even) outweigh the downside of Brexit?

For non-exporting Scottish companies (and those exporters that also have a significant market and/or supply chain in the rUK) the main issues are likely to be different: (a) continuing access to what is currently a domestic (UK) market post-independence; (b) access to labour post-Brexit; and (c) the impact of Brexit and subsequent UK trade deals (e.g. with the USA) on competition from cheap, differently regulated imports to the UK. Non-exporters will also want to weigh up the risks and uncertainties associated with Scottish independence – again will these outweigh any downside of Brexit?

A substantial part of the case to address these issues can be set out by the SG now – to some extent it is happening, especially over food & drink: however, even if done convincingly, businesses may still wish to delay their strategic decisions until the form of Brexit is much clearer. Perhaps only then will they be willing to finalise their own cost/benefit analysis – and, assuming this is done rationally, offer overt support for independence.

As the UK government kicks cans down the road on Brexit and the nature and length of transitional arrangements with the EU remain in detail fluid, identifying the optimal point in time for business people to ‘decide’ is hard to call.

@stewartb 6.05pm
Pretty much, as Macart would say.

Apologies – Slightly off topic ‘ It was system of hierarchy, in which there is one group with all the power and another without any power.’

This was a description by a Palestinian lawyer of what apartheid was in regard to South Africa and what he considers is similar to the state of Palestinians in Israel today.

Might it be likened to two nation states on the island of Greater Britain?

Anent Businesses and what they are up to re Brexit, this is from one of the links Smallaxe put up in previous thread, from FT, usually paywalled so I’ve copied entire article for perusal:

‘UK steps up doomsday planning for no-deal Brexit’

M26 motorway in Kent may become a lorry park to cope with Dover chaos

•M26 to become lorry park
•Sudden rupture would affect all parts of British economy
•Companies begin to stockpile food and medicine

A 10-mile-long motorway in south-east England can be shut and turned into a lorry park to cope with tailbacks from the port of Dover if Britain crashes out of the EU with no deal, under one plan being considered by the government.

The M26 in Kent would become a “holding area” for up to 1,400 goods vehicles to try to ease the gridlock as up to 10,000 lorries a day suddenly require customs checks to enter the EU.
The idea is just one part of a vast effort by the government to brace Britain for the possibility of chaos if relations sour with the EU and co-operation ends after next March.
With London and Brussels still deeply at odds over their post-Brexit relationship, the chances of leaving without a deal are growing rapidly and contingency planning is being stepped up on both sides.

But after 45 years of integration, a sudden rupture would affect almost every part of British life, with companies already stockpiling food and medicine, and the government looking at whether it needs to use the military to keep the country running.
Weekly advice on no-deal planning

John Manzoni, the chief executive of the civil service, told MPs on Thursday that a breakdown between the UK and the EU could have some “horrendous consequences” that the UK is not yet ready to cope with.

“There needs to be a narrative to say, ‘Actually we don’t want this to happen but we have to prepare just in case it does and here are all the things that we have to do’,” he said. “There are supply chains for food and medicines; we have to put in place contingencies for those.”
Over the summer, the government will start issuing weekly advice to businesses and households on how to prepare for a “disorderly” Brexit and 70 technical notes are being prepared. As part of the preparations, some 250,000 small businesses will be asked to start making customs declarations, in a dry run for a hard Brexit.

The public campaign about no-deal planning is partly designed to show the EU that it should take Theresa May seriously when she says she is prepared to walk away without a deal. But the government also wants to convey the message that preparing for no deal is not just a matter for the civil service, but also one for companies and individuals.

Businesses already spending millions

UK businesses are already spending heavily on their preparations. Adam Marshall, head of the British Chambers of Commerce, said companies have been thinking through the potential impact of changes to cross-border trade, staffing, contracts, VAT and intellectual property.
“The government needs to do the same — and demonstrate to business that it has clear answers to all the big questions that are within its own control,” he said.
A recent survey by the CBI found that 61 per cent of members were developing a contingency plan for a “no deal” scenario: but the vast majority found this difficult because of the lack of information available.

The M26 in Kent is no stranger to stationary vehicles but the motorway may have to be turned into a lorry park under a no-deal Brexit © Alamy
In the pharmaceuticals sector, companies said they were aware of potential shortages of vital medicines.

David Jefferys, senior vice-president for Eisai, a Japanese pharmaceuticals company, said a total of 3,000 to 4,000 marketing authorisations for medicines are held in the UK and will need to be moved to mainland Europe.

His company is transferring licences for about 60 medicines to Germany “at considerable cost”. He said each transfer costs “about €7,200 [?.?.?.] just for them to change the name from Eisai Europe in Hatfield to Eisai GMBH in Frankfurt”.

“We will have to be stockpiling products on both sides of the channel to keep security of supply?.?.?.?We reckon that the whole enterprise is [costing us] between £5m and £10m,” Dr Jefferys added.

No deal plans being activated

George Bridges, a former Brexit minister who is now advising the chair of the bank Santander, also said that companies are running out of patience.
“Some people think we can strike a deal with the EU in, say, mid-February, and that will stop business from activating their no-deal plans, but that’s totally unrealistic,” he said. “They will start implementing them incrementally and then the question is how reversible some of that is if there is a deal.”

Gavin Darby, chief executive of Premier Foods, the Mr Kipling cake maker, who is also president of the Food and Drink Federation, the industry group, said some companies were increasing their stock of ingredients on UK soil.

“Smart companies will have worked out where the pinch points are with ingredients and be building up inventory,” he said but declined to comment on what Premier was doing.

RAF aircraft could be used to ferry supplies of food and medicine around the country © Getty
Ian Wright, director-general of the Food and Drink Federation, said food manufacturers had two main concerns. “One is getting product in through ports around the Brexit date, so that you can continue to manufacture. The other concern is — what will happen to the price of ingredients?

“If there’s no deal, you’d expect sterling to tank, so people are trying to hedge against those concerns by storing ingredients like spices that can be kept in dry storage, as well as chilled and frozen food, although there is a shortage of chilled and frozen warehousing in the south of England.”

Peter Ward, chief executive of the UK Warehousing Association, said: “Half the food we consume is imported; 80 per cent of that imported food comes from Europe and 90 per cent of that comes through the Dover corridor. If I were a property investor, I’d be scouring the M20 corridor now because that’s where there’ll be demand.”

Whitehall sees some successes

In Whitehall, preparations for no-deal, led by Tom Shinner, head of policy and delivery co-ordination at the Department for Exiting the European Union (Dexeu), have seen some important successes.

HM Revenue & Customs, for example, has said it is now close to being able to cope with a surge of users for its new Customs Declaration Service computer system if there is no deal.
In the face of heavy traffic at the ports, however, HMRC said on Thursday that it would prioritise keeping the “flow moving” over collecting duties. About 5,000 new customs officials will be needed if there is no Brexit deal, and 1,113 have so far been hired, HMRC said.
If there is no deal next March, MPs expect they will have to pass about 1,000 new statutory instruments through Parliament in a matter of days to bring regulations into UK law, including safety certificates for airlines, maintaining the enforceability of financial contracts and even keeping the Channel tunnel open.

“It would be like 2008 when Parliament had an endless sitting to deal with the crisis,” said one official. “At least we’ve had a recent experience of this.” Some MPs note that even without a full Brexit deal, it may be possible to strike bilateral agreements on aviation and nuclear regulation to mitigate the worst possible outcome.

Details are alarming for public

The challenges stretch in all directions. The National Audit Office disclosed this week that the government does not yet have plans for a system to issue as many as 7m international driving licences to British tourists who wish to drive in the EU if the current arrangements are not honoured. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is considering racehorse passports.

Philip Hammond, the chancellor, put aside £3bn for no-deal contingency planning in his November Budget and an increase in “no deal” activity has been evident across Whitehall in recent days.

But many aspects of the contingency planning — like the M26 idea and the use of RAF aircraft to ferry supplies of food and medicine around the country — are so drastic that they risk alarming the public.

“The M26 is a major artery and you have to pray it wouldn’t come to this,” said James Hookham, deputy chief executive of the Freight Transport Association.

“It’s certainly one of the options they are looking at in government. It would effectively mean that Cobra had taken over the road network as a matter of national security,” he added, referring to the government’s emergency council.’

link to archive.is

@ twathater at 4:24pm ….

I know that Nicola Sturgeon holds meetings to discuss Brexit “implications” with the Heads of, for example, the Confederation of British Industry, Institute of Directors, Federation of Small Businesses, Scottish Council for Development and Industry, Scottish Financial Enterprise and the Scottish Chamber of Commerce.

She’s also, over and above visiting Brussels, had all Scottish Consuls from the 27 EU countries at Bute House to discuss Scotland’s future in the EU, how to protect our interests and so on.

A number of SNP politicians are also doing their rounds at night across the country speaking to people, such as Jeanne Freeman, Mike Russell, Mhairi Black, Tommy Sheppard etc.

There’s only so much that they can do to get the word out there, curtailed as they are by the MSM. As to Nicola speaking to workers well I’m sure she would jump at the chance if she got the opportunity to do so: an invite.

I don’t know if I’ve been missing something but you don’t seem to hear much from the Unions in Scotland. Could it be that their bosses are controlled by the Labour Party and are willing, like the MSM, to sell the Scots out for their love of their precious Union?

We know too that many company bosses in Scotland support the Union. In fact I read somewhere that 600 invitations were sent out for them to meet and discuss Brexit with around 25% only taking up the offer. Many with an “I’m alright Jack mentality, such as Ineos’s Ratcliffe declined the offer.

Meanwhile we’ll have to let the Westminster bulldozers do the

stewartb says:

It would be good to hear more about current thinking from across the Scottish business community.

The beef and lamb industries are making very strong statements on what Brexit could do to their businesses. Like many food items, Scottish meat is at the quality end, and Brexit could wreak havoc.

These are the people who often put up ‘Vote Tory’ signs in their fields. We could say, ‘Hell mend them’, but every convert to our cause has to be made welcome. I don’t think they are ready to cross over yet, but they are well pissed off. The way things are going, they will want an iScotland close or in the EU, I am certain.

link to archive.is

link to archive.is

if you pay attention to the anti Scottish propaganda you can see a recent change. Behind all the keep us together is slow asset striping from Scotland before England leaves Scotland.. of course we will vote leave. But the plan I think is to have a right wing Singapore type government for England. The Scots would never agree to that…so they need to go.

@Petra

Click on Business for Scotland just under the Scottish politics section there’s loads of interesting stuff happening all the time and you get to see how many businesses actually do support Independence

Soz if you already use it

Their best offer…

Try again ssson.

They didnae even put any ‘Fellowes oil lubricant’ on the blades.

The Tories are trollin’ us good peoples of the EU.

No pritt stick can put that humpty dumpty…

Back together again like.

8pm.

Now.

Hi Chris – I’ve taken a leaf out of your book.

I’m still on holiday enjoying every minute I can before the inevitable call to arms is made by Nicola and her wartime government, if this Brexit malarkey is anything to go by. Meanwhile…

This fun essay is attracting lots of readers: link to wp.me

@Tom at 3:06 pm

Ireland has been cracking on with bypassing the UK.

link to afloat.ie

Notice the date – October last year,

Also ferries to France and Spain.

link to brittanyferriesfreight.co.uk

Gies yer equations.

Stay high..

@ Thepnr who mentioned deadlines

One deadline we are sure of is 30th March 2019.

If the Withdrawal Agreement is ratified before 30 March 2019, EU law will cease to apply to and in the UK on 1 January 2021, i.e. after a transition period of 21 months.

“If the Withdrawal Agreement is not ratified before 30 March 2019, there will be no transition period and EU law will cease to apply to and in the UK as of 30 March 2019. This is referred to as the “no deal” or “cliff-edge” scenario”.

The EU may well be able to add on another month or month and a half if needed to ensure ratification, but the UK loses the transition/Implementation period it asked for

Petra @ 8.49pm

Many thanks for reproducing this long letter. Some interesting, some quite odd (to say the least) perceptions. However, views from different perspectives should be welcomed and the Kingdom of (greater) England should indeed get its own parliament for its own independent state, and get out of Scotland’s affairs. But as to this ….

“The SNP’s political adventures into northern England, I assumed, were part of a plan to disrupt any attempts at England uniting.”

Where on earth did that Machiavellian construct come from? What have I missed?

I can see the subsidy junkies in London shitting their pants at that prospect. @ Robert Peters 9.15

‘She locked the SNP’s ship on one particular course by declaring against Brexit too quickly.’

No she didn’t, she locked into that position because Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU by 62%. There is not the same ‘movement’ in England for English Independence precisely because England does not have the democratic deficit that Scotland suffers. England has the government it wants 100% of the time…all of the time.

The rest of that longish rant can be fairly dismissed when one of its central premises for ‘offering advice’ is predicated upon the false belief that:

‘She was essentially saying that she was quite happy to be subservient to another block of nations dominated by France and Germany.’

That’s a Brexiteer Englander writing that, why would we be taking any advice from anyone with such an absurd notion of how the EU actually operates?

But…let’s hear them out.

‘This is because the odds are that no government can remain in power for a number of terms without being damaged by an active opposition. It is natural that a government’s support gradually crumbles away because the mere fact of being in government expands opposition and undermines support.’

Does this writer know that the SNP have retained power for over 11 years now? Do they not understand that in Scotland we will never vote for Tories to run our parliament and we will never vote for Labour ever again to do so? There is no ‘active opposition’ in Scotland, there is no ‘gradually’ crumbling away…and its utter bullshit to state ‘the mere fact of being in government expands opposition and undermines support’ in the Scottish context. The facts utterly dispute that analysis?

The rest of this letter seems to be a rebuke to the SNP for not letting this person’s ‘non partisan’ organisation get a foot in the door last indyref?

And now basically they are saying ‘ye’s can’t do it without us’:

‘If they want to win the next referendum on Scottish independence the SNP cannot afford to reject working with an English organisation this time.’

Kin we no…aye?

Else..apparently:

‘If they do, then the SNP will have truly wreaked their Scottish independence hopes on the rocks, or simply run out of supply or fuel because of staying out at sea for too long.”

Btw…the sea metaphor…ran aground long before his letter reached the shores of our ears.

Pffft!

Dave MacEwan Hill @ 7.30pm
In response to Effijy @ 6.30 you said:
“”It is not wise to keep referencing the lies about the costs of the Scottish Parliament building. The first estimates, which are always quoted by our enemies, were for the adaption of the Royal High School in Edinburgh to a parliament.””
…………………………….
Why is it not wise? From beginning to its, overdue, end the whole Parliament project was the sole responsibility of the then Labour UK Government and in particular Mr Donald Dewar in his role as Secretary of State for Scotland. The SNP had no responsibility for any decision related to its location etc.

The figure of £40 million was bandied about in the early stages of the process including the White Paper in 1997 but this increased slightly by the time of the final announcement in 1997 – see below.

From a Parliamentary Briefing paper: Building the Scottish Parliament, The Holyrood Project. January 2005. SN/PC3357

“”A second submission was put to Ministers on 12 June 1997 which offered further elaboration on the four options in the form of cost estimates.13 The lowest estimate was given for the adaptation and refurbishment of St Andrew’s House at £27 million and the highest estimate was given for a new-build solution in Leith for £43.5 million.

“”On 24 July 1997 a final version of the White Paper was published. A range of £10 to £40 million was set for the cost of the building.””

And:

“”On 15 December 1997 Ministers received presentations on the design feasibility and estimated construction costs of the four site options. The construction cost for the Regent Road/St Andrew’s House site was calculated at £65 million; Leith was estimated at £59 million; Haymarket was estimated at £53 million (including site acquisition costs) and the Holyrood site excluding Queensbury House, was estimated at £49.5 million. The site acquisition cost for Holyrood was costed at £5 million. All estimates were excluding fees and VAT.

“”In a press release given on 9 January 1998, Donald Dewar announced: “I am delighted to be able to announce today that after a careful and thorough examination of options, Scotland’s Parliament will occupy this prestigious setting in the historical heart of Edinburgh close to the Palace of Holyrood.”

The paper is very interesting and detailed and covers the findings of the Inquiry into the whole process.

It is worth noting that the final costs were almost 10 times that estimate. The costs were paid from Scotland’s block grant. Central Government did not make any contribution to the cost of the building. The completion of building was about 3 years late. Maintenance costs run into millions.

You would think that with this, trams and PFI Labour would keep well away from anything involving construction cost overruns and late delivery.

The Tory cover-up charter.

link to caltonjock.com

@Dr Jim –

I’m sure you didn’t intend to include Jackie Baillie and cracked toilet pans in the same comment.

😉

@ben madigan

Deadlines were not brought up by me on this thread but by Danny, I was responding to him. The “deadline” of 30th March is another false construct as there remains the option of changing it with the approval of the EU27.

So no one should get it into their head that this deadline is immovable because it is, the EU who do want a deal will give an extension, i.e. move this deadline if they believe it is still in their interests to do so, and I believe they will.

There is nothing this government can do to resolve Brexit other than kick the can even further down the road while they pray for a solution to be found.

No “deadline” is written in stone, they are targets, nothing more.

One other thing, if there is another General Election between now and March 29th then that makes moving the artificial “deadline” created by Article 50 even more likely so as to give any new administration time to sort out the mess created by the last.

I doubt anyone is saying that another General Election is impossible.

@Danny

LOL, my f*ckup but he must think like me 🙂

Maybe this will cheer people up.

This is a grainy and bad picture of Tiger Woods leaving the green at the ninth hole on Carnoustie today.

link to imgur.com

This is a better picture of the house behind him on the same picture ?

link to imgur.com

@ben madigan

I guess it’s best then that we just wait and see for nothing is certain, at least for now.

Just about tae go stoatin’ aboot Crail like…

Tis the festival like, love Nicola.

Swearing soon.

Promises.

Lol

Peek a boo bitches..

U know.

Beautiful part of the country Cactus…enjoy… 😉

Mornin’ K1.

Love Sco.

X.

Gonna head aff topic, cause ah’ll just rattle this thread like.

Taps aff.

Music time.

There are YES flags all along the rail route from Aberdeen to the central belt. Scotland looks absolutely fabulous in the sun. Looks like a different place from the dreekit winter. Carnoustie looks amazing. The major facilities. Scotland is one of the major world tourist destination. Glasgow is a world conference centre. The Outlander and Whisky trails The cruising vessels. The Festival and Tattoo. It is amazing how Scotland has changed for the better in such a short time.

People have more confidence and pride in themselves. The SNP Gov has helped put Scotland on the map. The amazing bridge, the new rail line. The fabulous new road. What improvements. The SNP/Holyrood Gov building Scotland up. Westminster trying to take Scotland down. They can get lost. They will not be taking away powers from Scotland but increasing them.

There will be a GE election in October which the Tories will lose. It is the way to get out of their foolhardy mess. That’s what always happens with these people. Utter incompetence. They would be gone now but the so called ‘opposition’. They do not want the poison chalice. They are just as bad. Not turn up to vote and abstaining. A complete and utter shambles. Shameful and embarrassing. Imagine sanctioning and starving people. Illegal deporting people. Illegal wars starving, maiming and killing people. Just appalling, The Westminster unionist hypocrites, The lies that they tell. Iraq, Dunblane, Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years.

Dorothy Devine says:

some other flag , belonging to some other group

Indeed, I feel absolute revulsion when I see one of those flying in Scotland. For me it has come to represent all that is bad, the imposition of alien views and policies, all the damage being done, it stands for the antithesis of democracy.

I want that flag and all it symbolises put into the history books. I don’t want to see it ever flying again. The English should be flying a St George, perhaps with a wee dragon in the corner if that part of the Union survives.

The saltire in my garden, like every other, reminds me that we can sort things out and move on to something much better.

Blair still at it. Getting £10Million from the Saudis. He should be put in jail. The biggest warmongers in the world. A total absolute, despot monarchy. Using the US/UK as mercenaries. To do their dirty work. Perpetual war and terrorism. The apartheid State of Israel. Supported by the US. Under policies that would never be sanctioned in the West or the US. Total hypocrites.

Britain/France (US) carved up the Middle East. They have done nothing but cause trouble there ever since. Killing and maiming millions. Westminster policies have caused the worst migration crisis in the Middle East since the 11WW. Then tried to use it to leave the EU. Causing even more economic damage. They are a disgrace. Tony Blair is responsible. Along with Cameron and the rest, They should be put in prison for fraud and crimes against humanity.

So Theresa May proposes a UK survival plan where post Brexit, the UK and EU can happily charge the various tariffs and charges on goods as, where, and when required, and then “settle up” at the end of the month like some kind of international bar tab. Yet a few hours later, the “Right Honourable Gentleman” Dominic Raab weighs in to the argument saying if the UK doesn’t get its own way, the EU can sing for its £38 billion that’s already properly owed.

Not happening says Michel Barnier. Serious risk of fraud warns Michel Barnier… It’s almost as if Michel Barnier doesn’t trust the UK, and won’t take its word on anything. Can’t imagine why…. So many Honourable and right Honourable folks in the Palace of Westminster, this “Johnny Foreigner” ought to know his place…

I can only speak for myself, but I trust Michel Barnier. Je suis Michel Barnier.

On the UK threat of not paying, thick shit Tory boys abound in the Westminster establishment. The business the EU will pick up with the UK out of the EU will swamp the 39billion the dimwits are threatening not to pay.

The white helmets have been evacuated by Israel.

@Capella 9.35: really? I’m forbidden by my handler from listening to Radio Shortbread for bp/ general health reasons, especially now I’m out of polystyrene bricks.

“Raab C Brexit” was someone else’s sublime creation (was it cearc?).

Anyhow, it’s not plagiarism, it’s called recycling now 😛

@ Tinto Chiel – yes. Isobel Fraser, during a discussion on BREXIT, said that “some wag” had labelled him Raab
C. Brexit for those who find it difficult to remember his name.

Quiet chuckle time.

I don’t normally listen to BBC London Calling either. But sometimes a bit of outrage gets you going in the morning.:)

I have to say that the EU was wrong in its sequencing of the Brexit negotiations, considering the short timescale. The amount owed – agreed at £39 billion – is a legal obligation, and could have been negotiated at the same time, in the certain knowledge from the EU’s point of view, that if the UK refused to pay, it can be taken to court, and if it refuses to pay after that, sanctions can be applied until payment. In this respect the EU has been unneccessarily dogmatic and obstructive, and quite silly with it.

The rest of the problem is all caused by the UK, single-handedly.

@Petra says: 21 July, 2018 at 8:49 pm:

… “An alternative point of view.
(Very) Long Letter in the National submitted by Eddie Bone, Campaign Director, Campaign for an English Parliament:
”Some friendly advice from an English nationalist.”

That guy is one seriously delusional (cough!), Patriotic, Blut und Boden English Nationalist, Petra.

Utterly blind to the very obvious fact that with 533 English MPs, 40 Welsh MPs, 59 Scots MPs and 18 N.I MPs out of a total number of MPs at Westminster of 650 the total of MPs from England=533 and the combined total of non-England MPs = 117 to 533 that Westminster is in reality the unelected as such parliament of the country of England.

If that was not enough for this, (cough!), Patriotic Englishman then the USE of EVEL proves the point that Westminster operates as the unelected as such, de facto Parliament of the country of England/

It finances ONLY England as the United Kingdom with United Kingdom taxpayers money while making Block Grants to N.I., Scotland & Wales and Westminster decides the level of those block grants.

Then the idiot champions federalism that cannot work with one federal unit of 533 and the combination of all others of 117.

Not only that but Westminster uses only English Law to legislate and it treats its only Kingdom Partner in the United Kingdom as if it were an English dominion like Wales & N.I.

The plain and simple truth is that United Kingdom means United KINGDOM it does not mean united country and there are only two kingdoms signed up the the Treaty of Union.

Danny@10-14am

The C as in “C youse”, I presume!

Residents warned not to breach school of art cordon;
link to archive.is

Questions after BBC Scotland pulls ‘anti-Sturgeon interview’ programme from iPlayer;
link to indyref2.scot

New electric trains to start running next week;
link to archive.is

China must speed up development of nukes to deter US aggression – state media;
link to rt.com

France’s Le Maire says no U.S. trade talks with metals tariffs in place;
link to reuters.com

Spain’s conservatives swing to the right with new leader;
link to reuters.com

Iran supreme leader threatens to block all Gulf oil exports if its own is stopped;
link to rt.com

Absent Without Leave
by Macart
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com

A DWP minister just dropped some shocking figures then ran off for the weekend;
link to thecanary.co

I’m not sure what the actual timescale is ‘re the Forth Bridge, but from boyhood I was told that painting was all year round, start at one end, when finished, the cycle started again.

@Capella: so is that Isabel Fraser back in the fold now at PQ? I remember she was banished to France or somewhere for quizzing Ian “Bayonet The Wounded” Davidson a bit too closely with one of thae question hings he finds it hard to cope with and getting accused of being an SNP plant.

Surely the C stands for champions.

As in Raab Champions Brexit.

And with his threat about not paying the debt, he really is championing brexit.

Anyways, my previous post about the “unreasonableness” of the EU in its negotiations is really a flyer setting the ground for another alternative for the UK, in the event of a no-deal.

The UK then presents a submission to the ECJ which adjudicates on the Lisbon Treaty, that the EU-27 have not negotiated in terms of the Article 50 and Article 218(3) of the TFEU, in that it has caused unneccesary and unreasonable delays in the 2 year timetable, and that therefore the 2 year deadline should be extended by say 2 years (or until 31st December 2021).

The ECJ first consiers the competence of the case, and then sets a date for hearings, with a further date for the judgement. Meanwhile there is the equivalent of an interim interdict on the EU chucking the UK out of the EU. So the UK gets its transition period whether the EU-27 likes it or not.

The shortest economic suicide note in history;
link to taxresearch.org.uk

Inside Bannon’s Plan to Hijack Europe for the Far-Right;
link to thedailybeast.com

A Round-Up Of The People Calling For Theresa May’s Exit;
link to thepeoplesnewsonline.co.uk

@Smallaxe

Thanks for the punt. 🙂

@yesindyref2

Dr Whitford isn’t wrong. It will be short, of necessity it’ll be short. The statement tells you something else too.

I doubt there’s more than a handful of people around the FM who have an idea of the precise timing of it and that’s a good thing.

Pretty sure the pro Westminster parties would like to know that timing too. The opposition are fishing like mad. They’re provoking. They’re desperate and they’re in the dark. Keeping them there seems like a good idea t’me. 😎

Macart,

You’re welcome, my friend. Always interesting and to the point.
🙂

“C” stands for “Cocksup”.

Jacob Rees-Mogg’s fund house launches second Irish fund;
link to archive.is

Ken500 at 9.39

As it has become common knowledge that their other day job was as murdering Islamic fanatics and child beheaders trying to unseat the legitimate elected government of Syria their usefulness was at an end.

Danny says:

… the people of Scotland had their vote in 2014 and voted to stay within the UK. … The sheer hypocrisy of the BritNat Remainers is breathtaking.

Yes. BritNat Remainers are BritNats foremost.

Personally I’m not keen on an EURef2 for multiple reasons.

My main one is, suppose Holyrood call and win a consultative Indyref2, then after negotiations on the exit deal the BritNats start calling for an IndyRef3! EURef2 sets a bad precedent.

If there were to be an EURef2 it SHOULD address the biggest failure of the the first one which was pre-defining what happens when NI and Scotland vote to Remain again, should England vote to leave? There isn’t a snowball in Hell’s chance WM will inbuild solutions!

I might support EURef2 if Scotland got a supplementary question … “in the event Scotland votes to remain, while the UK votes as a whole to leave, should Scotland become an independent country?”

And, IMO the circumstances around EURef1 haven’t changed in the same way Indyref1 have. The Withdrawal Agreement seems straightforward and could be signed to give a transition period to work out the future relationship. The promises made in EURef1 can be delivered if TMay would get her act together. An EURef2 on the WA seems unnecessary.

By contrast, Indyref2 was won with promises which will never be delivered. The failure to give NOs what they wanted is massive. While around half of NOs were ideological BritNats, the other half weren’t. They voted NO to get more Devo, to stay in the EU, to maintain the status quo they felt comfortable with, or because the UK seemed the low risk option for their future. All change. What these people wanted is not what they got!

As you say, the BritNats of any flavour won’t concede any of that. Hypocrisy is their middle name.

@Macart
Absolutely and there are other signs.

It doesn’t stop us playing the game of course.