Spoiled for choice
Posted on
September 10, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
George Monbiot in the Guardian, 10 September 2014:
We could have picked almost any paragraph. A tour de force.
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
A friend of mine, a staunch no supporter by the looks of things, posted a link to this article today. I’m considering nudging her and asking if she’s changing her mind rapidly now it’s all unravelling. I won’t though, as it will probably tip the scales back … 😮
Agreed Stu – one of the best pieces I have read (and there have been many high quality articles in this site and elsewhere).
Yes. A brilliant piece of writing.
His article for the Guardian last week was top drawer as well. I particularly like the fact that if you view the articles on his blog page rather than the Guardian website, they are fully referenced a la Wings…..a little harder to refute with off-hand BTL comments.
Agree – super piece that neatly fillets the BT?NT case
It was certainly a thing of beauty. George gets it.
No throwing shoes at the Three Stooges today though …
4 months ago I knew a guy who was a nailed on defo 100% NO
met him last night by chance,he said I’m now not sure
so he must be getting info from friends who use social media
I do like that article! This is my favourite extract …
“Where, in Scotland’s Labour party, are the Keir Hardies and Jimmy Reids of our time? Where is the vision, the inspiration, the hope? The shuffling, spineless little men who replaced these titans offer nothing but fear. Through fear, they seek to shove Scotland back into its box, as its people rebel against the dreary, closed future mapped out for them – and the rest of us – by the three main Westminster parties.”
Vote YES and dump these spineless little men
I’m so pleased that George Monbiot supports us. I used to read his columns religiously, and his book Captive State is a brilliant critique of PFI and corporate rule. He’s just one of the many truly progressive voices in England and Wales that want us to go for it, and quite rightly so.
People tend to try to downplay the role of social media, but we wouldn’t be where we are without it. Not just websites like Wings tearing the mainstream media lies to shreds, but also the way we’ve been able to disseminate information quickly and get organised. This truly has been a movement of the people, and that’s only been possible because social media has empowered us all to do things for ourselves, and shown us that we don’t need to wait for politicians to speak for us.
It’s going to be very difficult to pull the wool over the eyes of the Scottish electorate from now on, so I hope there aren’t any establishment types out there thinking they’re going to take Scotland over, in the same way they’ve taken Britain over.
[…] Spoiled for choice […]
Monbiot’s article is a great read and is bound to create doubt in the minds of some NO voters.
It is people power that will win this, through use of social media and the old fashion art of conversation. Nothing will be the same after the 18th. The biggest losers will be BBC Scotland and Scottish Labour.
survation poll due rumoured to show yes lead, hopefully true and sizeable
Brilliant piece. A journalist who finally gets it! Posted on Facebook immediately. Says everything that the canvassers and everyone else involved in the Yes campaign have been saying.
I’m happy to say I played a little part in helping the argument 🙂 by pointing out after his aeticle last week the horrendous media bias here and the fact the Sunday Herald is the only paper supporting independence. I told him it was activists on the ground, plus social media, against the corporate media. The article is brilliant. He’s one of the few writing for a London paper who understands what’s going on here.
On balance, this is the same paper that gave us this
link to wingsoverscotland.com
So Graun can get tae France basically.
English foreplay
First they try to scare you
Then they try to seduce you
Then they try to bribe you
What’s next?
How can they be bribing us when they are not offering anything?
link to theguardian.com
In all its progressive liberal facts are sacred but only when it suits us, Guardian glory. Forgive but never forget. Actually not even forgive.
@James Dow
They try to fuck you
Shoes over Helicopters
Foodbanks over Banks.
Hope over Fear.
Future over Past.
I read most of Monbiot’s recent articles on his blog late last night.
He’s one of very few within the London based media who really does ‘get it’.
Not just London – but Pacific Quay too. The difference being that BBC Scotland is deliberately lying, misinforming, disinforming, and hiding the reality.
Many in London (Jenkins, Heffer, Phillips and many more) are simply ignorant.
It’s all ‘Salmond/SNP/Nationalists’ because they don’t want the 1.4 million voters who have no ‘easy access’ to the internet to know the truth.
That is anti-democratic, and following a Yes vote we need to find out who was responsible for the deceit, and expose them for what they are.
New post, please share
I Need Your Clothes, Your Boots And Your Motorcycle | todayinscotland
link to todayinscotland.wordpress.com
@Calgacus MacAndrews says:
No throwing shoes at the Three Stooges today though
Spoilsport!
@Doug Daniel So true, social media is just brilliant and we wouldn’t be at this point without it! I’ve never been so engaged in my life with whats going on around me and in my country. You ‘meet’ the most amazing, articulate folk. Can’t believe it – tweeting with gusto, at my age! The liberation is truly wonderful, my wains are dumbfounded 🙂
On the money and why I’d sob with despair if we don’t carry this through. It would send a message to the world that unlike countries like Tunisia and Egypt that a majority of our people weren’t educated enough to see though politician’s lies and desperate late promises backed up by a biased media as they did there thanks to social media and digital technologies.
the people of these countries didn’t have many of the choices our people have…pure ignorance, getting your news from The Record or not liking the First Minister’s face is inexcusable.
Dougie Daniel is right that the internet has played a significant role in this campaign.
In 1979 all we had was 3 TV Channels, BBC 1 & 2, ITV. Newspapers and radio were the other mediums. There were no other outlets for discussion apart from the niche publications with tiny circulations. If you wanted to know what went on you waited for the newspaper the next morning or the half hour news items in the evening. What you read and what you saw was filtered so you got to read and hear what the media wanted you to read and hear.
“The Scots are told they will have no control over their own currency if they leave the UK. But they have none today. The monetary policy committee is based in London and bows to the banks. The pound’s strength, which damages the manufacturing Scotland seeks to promote, reflects the interests of the City(12).
To vote no is to choose to live under a political system that sustains one of the rich world’s highest levels of inequality and deprivation. This is a system in which all major parties are complicit, which offers no obvious exit from a model that privileges neoliberal economics over other aspirations(13). It treats the natural world, civic life, equality, public health and effective public services as dispensable luxuries, and the freedom of the rich to exploit the poor as non-negotiable..”
link to permaculturenews.org george monbiot
Nice to see someone in the English media gets what we’re doing here! Between this article and the last one my respect for Mr Monbiot is through the roof 🙂
? upane, ka upane. ? upane, ka upane. ? upane, ka upane. Whiti te ra !
A step upward, another step upward. A step upward, another. The sun shines.
Ka mate haka. Maybe this might scare off the 3 amigos ?
Stephen Brown. That would be rape I presume after the seduction was rejected.
I’d say, tinchick, don’t miss the opportunity to engage with your friend!
No gloating or being critical.
Rather, gently highlight 2 or 3 things that might be important to her.
Removing Trident, safeguarding the NHS, the prospect of massive improvement in childcare, always getting the govts Scotland votes for, etc, etc.
Conversion through conversation!
Celebrity above substance again with the WM #westminsterboyband gracing Scotland with an unscheduled visit so important, they have to rearrange PMQ.
Well, wouldn’t you know it, there are people outside of London!
Saw a tweet earlier which made me titter.
link to twitter.com
Without social media and of course this very site with similar background researchers, this would have been another forgone media conclusion.
Let’s hope that all politicians will become more accountable to the electorate wherever they are.
I’ve even come to respect Salmond and Sturgeon who regularly have live Q&A’s unfiltered with voters with questions.
WM have nothing but pre-arranged press junket sessions to deliver soundbites.
@todayinscotland
Good link, also great to see in the last picture the Britnats still don’t know which way is up for their flag of choice. Distressing times for them indeed. 😀
link to todayinscotland.wordpress.com 😀
You can almost picture and hear David Cameron, descendant of king William IV, telling Scotland, look, my champagne lifestyle doesn’t pay for itself you know, tell you what, you let me carry on being your Boss and stealing your oil, and I will only call you subsidy junkies once a week, now come on, you can’t say fairer than that, can you.
Two people have now said to me, they can feel it in the air. Not sure, but the intangible ‘it’ does seem to be happening – a change, that will never go away. Now we need to get more votes, as each one will prove important.
Sad to see what anti independence thugs have done to the new southside YES shop in Edinburgh. Pretty dumb really.
Never mind, it’s a sunny day in Edinburgh, the country is turning with each day, and the three stooges from London are here, to add comedic relief to the whole campaign.
A fun day overall. 🙂
@ Nana Smith
“@Calgacus MacAndrews says:
No throwing shoes at the Three Stooges today though.
Spoilsport!”
I heard somewhere that the shops are limiting eggs to max. 3 per person…! 😉
I have now read a few of his articles online, have to say he breaks the mold in the UK press. He deserves credit for his articles particularly because he will inevitably be drawing right wing anger to himself. Kudos to him, someone with guts.
@Robert Louis
Totally agree, but just shows how desperate they are becoming that they have to resort to petty crime and vandalism
link to tinyurl.com 🙁
Inspiring piece.
O/T did anyone know that Osborne is actually a Baron.
This was unknown to me but not to this lady, and she does not hold back. Worth a watch.
link to youtube.com
@ Doug Daniel
David Pratt commented a few weeks ago that the rise in social media users was such that the situation of the people in Gaza could no longer be hidden.
I think he quoted 25 Million users at the time of the last Israeli incursion, (although it may have been at the time of the 2nd Intifada) compared with 250 Million now.
Vinceremo.
The English have a history of “rough wooing” where Scotland is concerned. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_Wooing
http://www.scottishreview.net
“London may try
to strangle the infant
nation at birth”
An English Conservative councillor warned me in the spring that Scotland would have few friends south of the Border whatever happened. We have had the gall to throw England’s kindness and largesse back in England’s face. The groundswell of opinion in England seems to back his case.
Since they are going to put the boot in however we vote, only independence will give us the international standing to resist.
BBC News 24
“Over to James cook who is at a rally with Alex Salmond on other side of Edinburgh…whats happening James?”
“All the media are penned in waiting, Alex Salmond is just walking up the street behind us”
That paints a perfect picture in my eyes.
Who’s Counting
It’s all about numbers at the end off the day
Have we the resources and can we pay
We have five million, you fifty five
Without us you are surely in for a dive
Remove the whisky, the oil, and the gas
Your fiscal accounting a much lesser mass
If Scotland retained what is our right
Your treasury would come up considerably light
Such a small nation housing so few
Sharing the wealth and starting anew
It’s only a matter of seizing the day
And finally sweeping Westmonster away
James Dow
Without doubt the best thing we can do so show solidarity with the working classes of Manchester, Liverpool etc is to gain our independence and head in a more socially just direction, showing there is a better way than this right wing neo-liberal path the UK is on. We can do nothing for them remaining in the union & getting dragged down with them.
Was round at the old dears last night. While she’s thinking of voting no, she admitted that a Yes vote would be “exciting”, there’s hope there. She now has a WBB in her possession, it may well be the best birthday present she ever receives!
Great headline in today’s Sun article. Joan McAlpine on fire in the confused Record
“The Charge of the Fright Brigade”
George Monbiot getting tore right in.
That was quite an article for the Graun.
You can feel a tangible change all around us now. 🙂
Been watching Monbiot for some time now and he seems to be one of the few jounalists who has actually stood outside of the London “Bubble” and begun to understand what’s happening in Scotland.
This article from him is really powerful stuff, beats anything from the pygmies at the Scotsman, Daily Rektard etc.
Wow! What spirit! I am anxious, but excited. Hopeful, but still aware of the potent shadows intent on smothering hope with fear. Vote YES, good people. Vote Yes, for YOUR new dawn to dispel these tenacious glooms.
Does anyone have any information on this new survation poll that was supposed to be due out at 10.30?
Labour MPs watching sky tv live now,must feel suicidal
BBC News 24 now running a “WHAT IF YES” piece to camera.
The game really is afoot!
This would never have been contemplated weeks ago.
@James Caithness
A wee hint…
link to forexlive.com
I cannot understand how captive the Scottish media is to the Unionist cause ….. actually I DO understand and fear the tenacity of that captivity. A new dawn, a refreshed journalism of a more self-conscious responsibility and professionalism? With a Yes victory, the quality of our media must change ….. surely.
James Caithness
You are 12 hours early it is 10.30 pm when the poll details will be released.
@James Caithness
Is it not due 10:30PM?
I read soemthing about it being in the Daily Record as they commissioned it so assumed it was to be released tonight along with a “Tomorrows headlines” kinda timetable.
I could be very wrong though as not my area at all.
O/T apologies, but Nick Robinson’s street interview with Alex Salmond was like a bulldog going at a bone.
Firmly put in his place, however.
No doubt he won’t be going at the Westminster trio
in such a manner.
Good comment on the Guardian:
Of course the English Tories are going witless.
A successful Scandinavian-style social democracy right on their doorstep would challenge everything about this compassionless, foul Thatcherite society that England has been turned into. It would be the English Tories’ worst nightmare. Even the English will wake up to the fact that society does not have to be one of zero-hour contracts, slum housing, unrestrained gouging by the privatised spiv companies, a descent into forelock-tugging.
For Labour in England, beyond the 2015 election, the benefits of a successful independent Scotland would be huge. Labour would be the natural beneficiary, if only it could find its soul and its purpose once more.
YES, without a doubt, would be good for England as well.
Monbiot gets it. Other intelligent and progressive folks in England get it (like Paul Mason) – little Englanders and the reactionary Westminster elite do not.
Hold on a second.
If we have Cameron, Clegg and Miliband, where the hell are
Ian Duncan Smith
Michael Gove
Liam Fox
Danny Alexander
Mr Carmichael
Surely some local homeboys would work a treat? No?
22
If Scotland becomes independent, it will be despite the efforts of almost the entire UK establishment. It will be because social media has defeated the corporate media. It will be a victory for citizens over the Westminster machine, for shoes over helicopters
George… Sheer brilliance.
The arrogance with which the three parties cobbled together a DEVO PROPOSAL without any consultation with residents of Scotland, and AFTER many having voted, is a breathtaking hubris and slap in the face for the democratic rights of residents of Scotland.
Further, upon analysis..
There is absolutely nothing new in what No is talking about and the parties still don’t agree on what powers Scotland should have.
So we need to remind voters that a No vote still means:
No adequate protection for Scotland’s NHS against the knock-on effects of future English privatisation and cuts;
No new job-creating powers for Scotland;
We will definitely get more Tory governments we didn’t vote for.
Only with Yes will we have the full powers to make Scotland’s wealth deliver far more for the people who live here.
Residents of Scotland… if you miss this chance, you will consign generations to unnecessary hegemony from Westminster and you will consign Scotland to continue as a broken ‘Labour Colony’, where corrupt councillors swim under the protection of the bigger sharks at Westminster.
For Scotland and for the future of your families. Ignore the fear and rhetoric from the establishment. They will and are saying everything to try to hold onto power.
Moderation??
Apparently the poll was supposed to be tweeted by the DR’s Davie Clegg (@davieclegg) at 10:30am and Survation would follow up with tables immediately after…
Still nothing showing though….
That article is sweeter than a drink in the desert!
Two more WBB away to separate groups of older folk in the cafe this morning (they have yet to vote) except one who said YES already in postal vote.
See J Prescot has brought his supporters with him on the bus
I am personally sick and tired of the NO campaign, continually citing how we should show solidarity with the workers of Liverpool or Manchester and so on. It is hogwash.
I am a socialist at heart, yet want independence. I personally remember the minor revolution that took place in the shipyards of Poland in the early 80’s, where there was REAL solidarity, via the trade union Solidarnosc, who fought for workers rights against the then soviet regime, leading to the famous strike action in the Lenin shipyards of Gdansk, from which Lech Walesa would rise. That strike action was a revolution for workers rights in Poland.
People here in Scotland, England and around the world joined together in support for solidarnosc. So when I hear these faux ‘socialists’ from the current ‘Labour’ party who haven’t done a days hard work in their lives, talking about showing ‘solidarity with Liverpool or Manchester, so we can’t be independent’, it makes my blood boil.
Dougie Alexander, Maggie Curran, Broon, Darling, Lamont and all the rest of them, there are many people like me in Scotland who could give the whole damn lot of you a lesson or two in REAL socialism and REAL solidarity. It knows no borders, and only needs the will to make it happen.
Honestly, when I hear these pretend socialists speak, I could weep for what has happened to the Labour party.
Car crash JOHN PRESSCOT
walofs
The Three Stooges of progressive muscular liberalism that are being evicted from Scotland.
The Progressive Stooge, the dystopian squalor of the Labour Party.
The Muscular Stooge, the corporate enslaver and plunderer that is the Conservative Party.
The Liberalism Stooge, the totalitarian deceiver and joker of the pack that is the Liberal Democrats.
Aye Scotland.
Despite all the attention from the media this week, I still get the overwhelming feeling, like the one I got when watching the Glasgow Commonwealth Games, that I am watching a foreign news service reporting on the place where I live.
And while I’n no fan of football, apparently it’s still considered our national game. Quite extraordinary then that the game versus Germany was neither broadcast on BBC Scotland nor on Scottish Television.
Quite surreal & bizarre.
I just want to point out, the first para in the post above, should read
I am personally sick and tired of the NO campaign, continually citing how we should show solidarity with the workers of Liverpool or Manchester, and so as a consequence we MUST NOT be independent and so on..
Just in case anybody gets the wrong message, as it was badly worded – as is made clear in the rest of the post.
George Monbiot is my new favourite columnist.
The past 2 articles in the Guardian are fantastic.
Sorry O/T
Diving in as noticed comments open on bbc re the three stooges patronising Scots visit. Wish I wasn’t working..
link to bbc.co.uk
Sorry meant pm. 10:30pm.
I’ll get my coat
I’m 100% Prescott slagged off Wales/Scotland at same time
“Scottish independence: Expert Alex Kemp predicts new 99 North Sea oil finds”
link to energyvoice.com
O/T
This is for ALL Aberdeen Wingers:-
On Sunday there will be a ‘Flash Mob’ at the Castlegate.
Be there for 11.45am for a noon mob.
Help show our strength & boost moral for the final push.
Get the Wings, Yes, WfI, LfI, RiC, Generation Yes OR Tubas for Indy badges, t-shirts & bags on the go!
There will be a photo op… lets make the Aberdeen one good!
Off-topic, but I had someone from Sky News asking if I fancied being interviewed on the 17th, as they’ll be in Aberdeen. But the interviewer would have been Kay Burley, so I turned them down. “Robustly”.
Kay Burley in Edinburgh on Sky News supposedly reporting on events but simply exhibiting blatant pro-union bias-an absolute disgrace which continues to shame the media.
Says when asked if she is English replied that she is British. Fortunately it is such in your face unionist arrogance that is driving people to Yes.
Just asking…but is the ‘Scold Bridle’ still outlawed?
Could we invest in some ye olde Tolbooths and apply said contraption to those who have so publicly and voraciously denigrated the people of Scotland?
I’d suggest the addition of stocks and rotten fruit as a finale, but given the amount of folks still wondering where their next hot meal is coming from, well, perhaps bad PR.
I notice Sky cut away from Prescott the minute it became clear that he was launching an attack on Cameron and the Tories and had therefore gone off message on the supposed unity of purpose of the three Brit Nat leaders.
If there is one reporter who I would not give the time of day to, it is Sky’s Kay Burley. Epitomises EVERYTHING that is wrong with the UK.
Good piece for a change from the Guardian but methinks it is just doing a bit of ‘erse’ protection from the drubbing that MSM is going to get a week on Friday, sales plummeting etc. I won’t be shedding any tears, in fact I’ll be having a bloody good laugh.
Auld Rock
It was a very good article by George Monbiot. He had another really good one last week as well.
Nope,they just don’t get it, Millionaire hereditary Labour MP introduces Labour LORD Prescot,fighting to protect Scotlands’ poor from within the ermine dripping House of Lords.
I previously suggested a few days ago on this site the possibility of a 2 day boycott of newspapers in Scotland , to see what effect a massive sales drop done , would it change anything , if nothing it would get a response of some sort not only in print but also in media generally
I posted a jpeg listing Scotland’s share of Britain’s resources, the other day. Unfortunately the info wasn’t sourced, but fortunately llammmmma has posted the sources. 🙂
Scotland represents just 8.3% of the UK population…. Remember that number 8.3%..
We have the following share of UK resources..
32% Land area
61% Sea area
90% Surface fresh water
65% North Sea natural gas production
96.5% North Sea crude oil production
47% Open cast coal production
81% Coal reserves at sites not yet in production
62% Timber production (green tonnes)
46% Total forest area (hectares)
92% Hydro electric production
40% Wind, wave, solar production
60% Fish Landings (total by Scottish vessels)
55% Fish Landings (total from Scottish waters)
30% Beef herd (breeding stock)
20% Sheep herd (breeding flock)
9% Dairy herd
10% Pig herd
15% Cereal holdings (hectares)
20% potato holdings (hectares)
All with 8.3% of the population!!!
There are very few countries in the WORLD that rival Scotland’s resources per head and in such rich diversity. We absolutely, unequivocally can be an extremely successful independent country.
References :
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to scotland.gov.uk
link to environment.scotland.gov.uk
link to scotland.gov.uk
link to scotland.gov.uk
link to bgs.ac.uk
link to bgs.ac.uk
link to forestry.gov.uk…/Woodproduction1976[8] …
link to forestry.gov.uk…/7c3602a5e6059a6480257c8900[9] …
link to gov.uk…/electricity_generation_and_supply.pdf[10]
link to gov.uk…/electricity_generation_and_supply.pdf[11]
link to webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk…/2011/final.pdf[12]
link to webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk…/2011/final.pdf[13]
link to nfus.org.uk
link to nfus.org.uk
link to nfus.org.uk
link to nfus.org.uk
link to scotland.gov.uk
link to scotland.gov.uk
That Scotland team thing went down well. Not.
O/T
Record Poll – Have BT done enough to convince you that Scotland should remain part of the Union ?
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
No at 76% at the moment
.
Joe
I have been boycotting them for weeks now, but I’m sure it would certainly get their attention if all their papers were returned unsold by the newsagents, worth a go
We must combine against the “forces of privilege and reaction” (as he lines up with the Conservatives, Ukip, the Lib Dems, the banks, the corporations, almost all the rightwing columnists in Britain, and every UK newspaper except the Sunday Herald) – in the cause of “solidarity”.
Scottish independence: Expert Alex Kemp predicts new 99 North Sea oil finds”
link to energyvoice.com
This link should be sent to all UK TV and newspaper outlets and lets see how many of them cover it.
how very dare the 3 stooges come to my country and lecture me on how much better it will be to stick together,
I will be voting YES,
don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out guys.
desimond says:
10 September, 2014 at 10:38 am
BBC News 24
“Over to James cook who is at a rally with Alex Salmond on other side of Edinburgh…whats happening James?”
“All the media are penned in waiting, Alex Salmond is just walking up the street behind us”
……………….
I wonder if the Three Amigos will walk openly up the street…a wudnae a thocht…xxx
@DaveDee
Im just waiting on big Blair MacDougall oiffering his brilliant campaign strategy services to whoever wants to be new leader of new Labour in Scotland party. After his David Miliband campaign and No Thanks, he coudl be 3 for 3!
@Dougie Bee
Exactly, I could just picture wee Eck sauntering saying “Aye aye, geez a minute, im chatting to this wee wummin” while somewhere 3 big limousines are heading to airports
Boss of bupa wants to retain the Union,no NHS troughing in Scotlands NHS after independence you see.
[Gordon Brown] roams through Scotland, still badged with blood, promising what he never delivered when he had the chance, this man who helped unravel the social safety net his predecessors wove; who marketised and dismembered public services; who enriched the wealthy and shafted the poor; who pledged money for Trident but failed to reverse the loss of social housing; whose private finance initiative planted a series of timebombs now exploding throughout the NHS and other public services; who greased and wheedled and slavered his way into the company of bankers and oligarchs while trampling over the working people he was elected to represent.
Oo-ya-bas!
On Daily Politics – Andrew Neil questioning about what tax powers would be devolved, give me clarity, to the Tory and Redtory MPs they were all over the place. He asked is the oil tax going be devolved to Scotland, the two clowns were all over the place and basically looked like lying numbskulls.
Can we aim for a boycott Saturday sunday , try for a 10% drop in sales maybe , should be achievable .
The only reason Graun editor let’s George Monbiot produce this kind of stuff is because he’s a fig leaf for one of the most shocking bunch of phonies and hypocrites teamGB has ever produced. Graun is no different from the Times or the Telegraph and what a surprise, it’s run by upper class English ex public school boys. After years of Severin Carrell/Liiby whatsherface shitting on Scotland and Holyrood.
Graun is just a one more UKOK joke, like the BBC except BBC in Scotland don’t care because they still get paid, until next Friday:D
David Cameron “I love my country more than I love my Party”.
Erm, don’t think they are actually yours, Dave.
Mr Major,as you said once when asked of devolution, we are taking stock. Except its forever this time,cheers.
We can all show solidarity with working people in all cities and towns across Europe never mind in Manchester, Liverpool, etc but it is for themselves to take their own destiny in their hands not that of the Scottish people. We are not a region of England but a country in our own right and that is what distinguishes us.
Probably too many links in that last post, so here’s where you can find the sources for that resources jpeg I posted the other day.
link to reddit.com
Why are the 3 stooges coming up to Scotland ? Do they not know that Begging is an Offence in Scotland.
“Scotland’s referendum is Britain’s reinvention
Whatever happens, we all share these islands – the independence vote will force us to write a new story”
“Repeatedly, Scottish yes voters insisted they would remain British. The Irish writer Fintan O’Toole agreed: Ireland was still British. The point made was that when Norway split from Sweden in 1905, Scandinavia emerged as a powerful common identity.
This definition of Britishness is about a shared history and language, and the common reference points of culture and ideas that provides. We are all part of the British Isles, and nothing is going to change that rich interdependency as we continue to fall in love, make babies, make friends, exchange ideas, trade, and visit each other.”
link to theguardian.com
the root is that many in scotland no longer want to be ruled by remote distance imperialist WM.
neither do we need to be ruled by anyone.
we have a long fought for and hard won, democratically CONSENTED yes or no vote.
WM stop interfering with it and go back home, this vote is for the people who live in scotland and no one else.
the message is we can take care of ourselves now go on beat it!
@Quentin Quale
Is it just me but hearing someone say they love the United Kingdom is like someone saying their couuntry is the European Union!
@Michael McCabe
Genius!!
Just read this one in the Guardian, they spelled ‘Sillars’ wrong twice in one article.
link to theguardian.com
Feck me now we have David Cameron shouting about SOLIDARITY
Poor old Lech!
Which of The Cheesy Three will be first to say ‘Do you want me to buy a vibrator?’
John Prescott
link to skynews.grabyo.com
Prescot proclaiming if we stick together we could have a GB football team. He laughed at how clever he is ( not!), and was boo’d!
George Monbiot is an excellent journalist and analyses important issues like land reform, environmental protection, subsidies to rich landowners and now the democratic deficit in Scotland. He gives the Guardian, and journalism in general, a good name. In a truly democratic state there would be many George Monbiots. As it is, he is almost unique.
Apologies if this has been mentioned in a previous thread; the video, “The Stolen Seas”, in Craig Murray’s blog is a must see for anyone who doubts that Labour politicians are enemies of Scotland’s interests.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Switching tv channels it comes across that even the reporters are at sixes and sevens!They are not really getting all this.
Also, Cameron’s speech was to a selected audience, go figure!
It’s been revealed. The mist has lifted.
The Yes Campaign has been the REAL Project Fear all along.
O/t
Andrew Neil says David Cameron was nearly in tears at the end of his speech! My heart bleeds for him! He’s only worried about being the Prime Minister who lost the Union!
Hope that the Scottish people see through the Lovebombing turning into threats!
On Daily Politics they are worried about rUK losing it’s stance in the world! That’s more like it! Tell the truth!
re mumsnet debate @ 13.45 today.
link to mumsnet.com
My bestie emailed me to say he is voting yes.
He was a staunch no and still doesn’t agree with the white paper but was convinced by the passion and vision of the yes campaign.
If he is voting yes, then I believe we may just win.
@Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)
Scott, would be better at Markies as we’ll have the Yes trailer there Sat and Sun and probably quite a few activists to start with
John Major’s government kicked off the privatisation of uni education, slashed funding, scrapping grants completely and making it loans only. I think they sold around £20 billion in student loans by the time they sold the first slices of student debt defaults, around £2bn which Major would call a Conservative triumph. If your parents are loaded none of it means much to you but it’s what the country’s built on, so let’s fcuk it all up complete because we’re Westminster and we understand the value of money and we’re not a bunch of sociopaths at all. More war anyone.
Well that was pretty hard reading is this what the english really think about us cant say im surprised they have been lied to for most of their lives they believe that they support us they subsidise us how ignorant can a nation actually be they do know about the internet right maybe they should do some research of their own instead of swallowing all the propoganda my god so much ingorance in on page wow!
and as for the comments my god thats some real cybernats for you bet this isnt covered at all eh well we wont have to put up with this much longer at least god i hope the 19th is a new start away from this cancerous union that has “gave us so much” i know it was sarcasm but compared to what i just read it was actually quite polite.
VOTE YES
John Prescott losing the plot getting booed by his own side.
link to facebook.com
fred blogger says:
10 September, 2014 at 12:51 pm
re mumsnet debate @ 13.45 today.
Alex is going to have his work cut out today as it appears Mumsnet attracts more than it’s share of unionists.
best of luck, Alex.
@ G H Graham you are right mate as it wasnt like we were playing a diddy team it was the world champions ffs ,and not to have this covered was a total disgrace ,but hey we did get the England game beamed to us the next night ,i also had to laugh at the game last night how many times did the so called welsh guy say “we” when they were talking about the English game ,if i was welsh i would be furious about that.
great article by George Monbiot hits the nail right on the head much respect for a damn good piece of journalism and for not being scared to say it as it is, even though he must have known he would get monstered on the Guardian by all the right wing idiot trolls on it.
@Stephen Brown says: 10 September, 2014 at 10:12 am:
“They try to fuck you”
Whit! Where have you been?
Have not they been doing that since 1st May 1707?
In any case I’m insulted by Cameron’s claims this morning. He says, “I love my country more than I love my party”.
Thing is that his country is England and my country is Scotland and he is wrongly claiming that his country is, “The United Kingdom”, and that title does NOT describe a country. It plainly, as it says on the tin, describes a bipartite union of two KINGDOMS that contain four countries.
This is the educational standard of the numptie elected to the highest office in the Government of that United Kingdom. This numptie also wrongly claims to be the Prime Minister of Britain but is actually only the PM of the United Kingdom but a parliament that has made itself into the de facto parliament of England and claims the bipartite Treaty of Union, “Extinguished”, Scotland and renamed the three country Kingdom of England as, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”.
There are another four non-UK countries in Britain. These are The Republic of Ireland, The Bailiwick of Jersey, The Bailiwick of Guernsey and the Isle of Man. This smug faced ignorant numptie is far too much of the school bully, arrogant and insulting. As he loves his country, England, my hope is he gets it all to himself with the Kingdom of Scotland disuniting the bipartite United Kingdom and the further disuniting of the Kingdom of England’s three countries, England, Wales & Northern Ireland.
Let’s see if he is so smug, arrogant and ignorant after that. The only way to deal with such School-yard bully boys is to stand up to them and, if you really have to, beat the s… – Err! Stuffing out of him.
link to facebook.com
John Prescott perpetuating the lie that Labour is the party of Devolution whereas the truth lies here in
link to electricscotland.com
“There is therefore no truth whatsoever in the assertion that the devolution of political
power to Scotland, and the restoration of the Scottish Parliament and Government,
was an initiative by the Labour Party.” (Page 10 para.5)
This is a fascinating account of how the EU forced the Blair Government to introduce Devolution as a means of solving the UK’s democratic deficit with Scotland which was in turn weakening the EU case for democracy in the EU’s negotiations with Russia.
Someday, this report will get traction, but right now, it doesn’t stand a chance.
The Media as UK Gov propaganda glove puppet.
Two thoughts:-
The UK Government, through the media, seeks to decide
not only what the population will think
but also what it will think about.
For the Government to be successful
in it’s propaganda however,
the population MUST be led to believe
that TV and Newspapers are reliable sources of the truth.
Right now, we are witnessing the UK Gov propaganda machine
at FULL POWER on TV and in the Press, peddling it’s lies
in order to get the population to believe that what Westminster tells them is true, and in response,
to vote No.
In an Independent Scotland, the TV and Press we know today
must be swept away to be replaced with Government supported internet and social media and with TV which is run by elected managers who will be accountable to the electorate.
After what Scotland has had to put up with in the media from Westminster, nothing less will do.
And as for Ken McQuarrie and John Boothman, the BBC’s men at Pacific Quay who are responsible for the BBC’s atrocious
‘coverage’ of the referendum debate – these men MUST be held to account and must NEVER work in Scottish media ever again. No excuses.
manandboy
salmond will be fine, he loves the questioning.
nothing has changed with WM.
it is as arrogant, belligerent, and patronizing, as ever, with their; “how dare you, we are above reproach.”
“Grants Shapps accuses United Nations housing rapporteur of political bias.
Conservative party chairman’s letter to UN lambasts Raquel Rolnik for her recommendation that bedroom tax should be axed”
link to theguardian.com
link to m.scotsman.com
Oops, maybe Hague didn’t get the memo ?
Sent a comment in to Stu last night, but Monbiot summed it up much more positively than I did today; here however is my own more negative take on why I’ve slowly drifted towards wishing Yes succeeds…
“But over the years, I’ve known Stuart is almost never (I can’t think of an exception) wrong about something he loves. Something he hates? Sure. All the time. He’s a man with defined aesthetic preferences. But when he puts his back behind something, there’s some core game there which is worth investigating.”
Kieron Gillen – Outrun 2006 Coast To Coast
link to rockpapershotgun.com
So we approach the final straight for the Scottish Independence referendum, and the above quote came back to my mind recently for a very prosiac reason; I was trying the above game myself too and, bear with me, there is a point here! I purchased a cheap second hand Microsoft Sidewinder steering wheel to go with it. I then spent a frustrating evening attempting to find the 4.0 drivers for it, but everywhere I looked was an exercise in lies and misdirection; sites you once used to be able to trust, now were all offering “download managers” that in reality were an attempt to manipulate you into installing software that you not only didn’t want, but would hijack your computer into doing things outright detrimental to your own health…
… and that, I glumly thought as I clicked away from yet another offensively dishonest page, is pretty much the state of the Union these days too. Insincere claims to being on our side, but the a toxic payload hidden just beneath the surface.
Now, I actually disagree with Mr Gillen above, it’s the things Mr Campbell dislikes that I tend to agree most passionately with him on, rather than the things he loves. Some of those things he loves I believe he’s quite, quite wrong about: Not Outrun 2006 (which is great and you should play it, natch), possibly Deathrace 3d though, as if that matters… but on things of much more importance that Wings Over Scotland believes, I just don’t believe are realistic at all; that the rUK Government is somehow going to play fair post-independence, that there will even be the Government you expected there to be post independence (Can you seriously claim the Tories look likely to even survive this Parliament, let alone win the next?)… but ultimately, that’s irrelevant I think. Because Mr Campbell is not wrong about the thing he hates. I wish he was, but he isn’t. Days away from the vote, and I can think of nothing that makes the Union worthy of anything but contempt.
That is a conclusion that hasn’t come easy to me: but as someone who wants to believe in international solidarity, the months have rolled by and I’ve watched the Better Together campaign provide nothing that gives any hope or sign of understanding of the wishes and needs of the electorate. And what offends the most is that, with today’s obvious attempts to simply bribe the Scots into maintaining the status quo, it shows that they are at least on some level aware of the democratic deficit… but Unionist politicians simply don’t care about it. Not that they can’t do anything, they simply don’t want too.
Will they respect the “Edinburgh Agreement”? Why would they, when they aren’t respecting the Independence Referendum now; offering potential further devolution after postal voting has already started is an absolute mockery of the democratic process, because it’s changing the terms of the two offered options. But again, that’s Unionist politics for you. They know it’s violating the spirit of fairness, and they don’t care. They simply have to win the argument now, to keep the power they’ll abuse later.
And I’ve watched the absolute worst of people line up on what is supposedly my side; from vile internet commentators (you know the ones) who hate the Scots for caring about things like schools and hospitals and each other, to supposed fellow travellors like The Guardian, who have run increasingly insane commentary trying to defend the Union… Including claiming independence would lead to a new Irish War and that Boris Johnson would defect to UKIP and take over the country, mere days before Boris Johnson declares he’ll stand as a Conservative MP. I’ve seen bullying of Scottish voters with threats of political reprisal; and again, I disagree with Wings, it’s no mere threat, but it remains bullying to declare you’ll beat the shit out of an Independent economy before they even have one, even if you actually are going to do it… They know there are alternatives, and they have no intention of exploring them, so it’s your fault if you make them hit you? No, it’s thuggish and evil and I just can’t defend it.
Likewise I can’t defend the mindset which points to war, and the greater potential for devastation and destruction as the only real positive of Union. The destroyers in Cardiff Bay for the NATO conference, the armed guards here in Bristol as their coaches roll through. That’s it, that’s the modern face of the United Kingdom. And not just war, but stupid wars too! Arming the Jihadists in Syria and then arming the Kurds now to kill the Jihadists we armed… the Kurds who are, remember, waging a terrorist war against Turkey, our NATO ally. Don’t you want to stay a part of that Scotland? Don’t you?
In the end, it came down to the debates for me; Unlike much of Wings again, I thought Alex Salmond was trounced in the first one. I’ve been saying for some time now that the SNP desperately needed to have a realistic, pragmatic response to the Currency issue. Especially as the Union is clearly so determined to go the bitter, Little England route in order to win votes in whatever polity they think they’ll be in next year.
But in the second debate… and let’s not be naive, both politicians went away and heavily planned, focus tested, practiced the debate before hand, including what arguments they thought would win… but Alex Salmond came back and at least managed to talk like a real person with real concerns; for the future, for how best to care for one another, for those schools, hospitals, and the welfare state. And Alastair Darling just floundered from one robotic talk point to the next in an attempt to win the debate in Westminster fashion; And the polls shifted heavily in favour of independence afterwards. It wasn’t about hating the English, it’s not about waving the flag or any other cliche; the public cared about Which of the alternative visions for living as a politcal entity were offered… and they wanted the better world. The response to the debates showed at least the Scottish electorate has it’s heart in the right place.
And again, the media commentariat exploded in mocking the idea of caring for your fellow man. And the politicians all abandoned their own parliamentary duties to race to Scotland with more bribes just to avoid losing…
I’m not naive. You will get further devolution if you vote “No.” But what you’ll also get is slashing cuts to central funding which they’ll pass on to Holyrood and then force your local authorities to make the decisions where they fall, and thus take the blame for them. That’s the virus in the Union package again. Here in my own Bristol council funding is being cut by 25% of the entire budget. The same will happen to you. An Independent Scotland is going to get a reaming too, but it won’t get any hope of remission. Not in the Union.
But if Alex Salmond has to answer to a decent electorate now, one that cares about the NHS, about it’s actual people, he will continue to have to answer to you caring Scots after Independence. The pressure will remain there. Whether you can use it…? Will you keep your own politics free from the corruption of international markets and the drift to right wing greed? Well, it’ll be up to you; but you’ve got a better head start than you would staying in the Union. The Union is terrible.
So…
Now I hope you’ll vote Yes. Because it’s the only answer that offers you any hope. Good luck Scotland.
I will add though that I hope you prepare to embrace that, if the overall vote becomes “No”, you should also remember the reasons why you voted “Yes”. Not flags or fanfare; and your opponents are playing the long game, to beat down the decent people into just not caring about what truly matters. You’ll have a harder fight in the Union, but you do have some friends here too. It’s not the end of the world if it’s “No” this month… not until you give up trying to live in what ever world you find yourself in, at least. So don’t give up.
Been an exciting day in Edinburgh. Street event with Nicola and Eck in Restalrig went really well. Got a selfie with Jim Sillars and Martin Compston. Filmed Martin being interviewed by Glenn Campbell; it’s on my Reekie Auld youtube channel for those interested. The Financial Times was there too by the way; they were interviewing a few people as well. Joined the pop-up stall on Leith Walk and it seems Standard Life have issued letters to their staff saying a Yes vote will cost them their jobs. A lady walked past and said she was a Yes until yesterday when her son got the letter. We couldn’t get her to stop and tell her SL have done those dirty tricks before when devolution came up.
PS.: David Cameron was at Scottish Widows HQ on Dalkeith Road, speaking to a closed audience (typical).
Employers political coercion of their employees – all sides should now make a loud and clear public statement denouncing workplace political coercion.
This campaign has been electrifying. It’s great to see so much passion in politics for a change. I have no idea which way it’s going to go but it appears as if things will change whatever the result.