Spinning down
So here’s a headline from the (Dundee) Evening Telegraph.
You know how we’re always pointing out how newspapers love to lie to readers without actually saying things that are untrue? Let’s have a quick case study.
Because the actual numbers of Scots who want a second indyref in the next three years, according to the Ipsos Mori polling the piece is a report on, are these:
Yes to another referendum: 41%
No to another referendum: 47%
Excluding DKs that’s a razor-edge margin of just 47-53 against. But the Telegraph uses the time-honoured distortion tactic of sub-dividing one side (and one side only) of the argument: 22% support a second referendum specifically because of Brexit, while another 19% just wanted one anyway.
And thus, without having said anything that’s technically false, papers get to create the misleading impression that a referendum is opposed by almost 4-1 when in reality it’s a statistical tie (ie it’s within the margin of error of 50/50), and less than half of Scots are actively opposed to having another vote.
Never just read the headline, folks. It’s how they get you.
Odd this, even the idea of 50/50 statistically in the polls is odd.
The meeja is a liar we know, but the polls seem way off.
Anecdotally, I am finding it hard outside the ‘loon yoon’ community to argue against another #ScotRef. Of course, understand and ‘desire’ are totally different things. Pehaps a question like:
“Do you understand the desire of some Scots for another #ScotRef, given the stupidity of #Brexit, or the mendacious lies of UKGov and its Media chums”
Its sooo tiresome. Granny has a short attention span so …
So the Papers editorial direction is always towards …
ANYTHING BUT YES SIDE !
Lies from the media, twisting facts to suite their mantra. Only 47% against a referendum so maybe the time to have the next one is not far away.
The Scotsman and Herald have done exactly the same thing in the last hour – giving the same headline top of the page news and focusing on distorted facts.
I noticed this before going onto Wings. Nothing unusual though … as this tactic is repeated consistently in the Unionist media.I’m sure other readers are wise to it too.
Media spinning so fast they are taking themselves doon the drain faster than was ever thought possible.
You have taught us well Master!!
That’s a pretty fine % for the start of the second indyref I reckon…
I’m sure there are a good number of would be NO voters who would welcome a second IRef if only to try and put the matter out of touch for another 80 years ( lifetime of good Queen Victoria)
Likewise there are are feartie Yessers who prefer a dream rather than working for a solid result. They need to get their boots on.
And then we have the posters and the spin. It’s all shite and only one poll matters, Nicola will call it when the current phoney war ends.
[…] Wings Over Scotland Spinning down So here’s a headline from the (Dundee) Evening Telegraph. You know how we’re […]
Ooops!
Perfect example of tory press brainwashing. Does it work though. They got the tories up from 1 to 13 MP’s last time, with incredible BBC Scotland support. So maybe.
Polsters, not posters, bloody auto corwrong.
@heedtracker
Wise words indeed…it really is so hard to comprehend how folk like working fisherman could be so blinkered..and will be again no doubt when “Just wait and see pal” promises come from wee Ruth and Davie boy.
The classic sad moment of course will come when BBC announce “Local services will be replaced with a National British service”..see how happy the Pacific Quay Better Together Branch seem then
The last time I was at school, 22+19+1=42, not 41 as the graphic shows. If you include the not opposed or in favour (8%), that’s 50% of the population who either want a 2nd indyref or couldn’t give a rat’s arse either way.
Our imperial masters want 100% of UK msm, shock.
Herald
13th March
Watchdog moves closer to banning Kremlin TV hosting Salmond show
David Leask
Chief Reporter
Britain’s broadcasting watchdog has signalled it may move against the Kremlin TV station showing the Alex Salmond Show.
Ofcom has announced it will speed up a probe in to whether RT, the former Russia Today, is”fit and proper”.
The regulator added that any finding that the Russian state was most likely behind the poisonings in Salisbury of a former spy and his daughter would be “relevant” to this investigation.”
then paywall.
So toryboy’s in Ofcom know more about Salisbury poisoning than everyone else, bar the tory gov. Sounds about right.
If this is the poll I took about a week or so ago (a Sunday morning about 10-00hrs) then I thought at thequestione of the questions were loaded either way was bad for Scotland, yes the guy identified himself as carrying it out for ipsop mori…
Funny that result, seen as Dundee was on of the few cities that voted overwhelmingly in the 2014 referendum for Independence ? Who did they ask 200 Tory supporters ?
Honestly these unionist loving media rags are getting really pathetic now, honestly give it a rest, Independence is on the way like or lump it but stop printing lies.
The legacy media doing its job – supporting and promoting their Union.
With unknowns removed the poll finds ….
Yes 48%
No 52%
Want 47%
Don’t want 53%
… statistically the same split, unsurprisingly.
Truth is, most folks are just getting on with their everyday lives. Springing a poll a lot of people means their answers probably haven’t been deeply considered.
Just wait till the YES campaign begins!
More lies.
More MSM lies
The British/Russo spy deserves retribution. He is responsible for the death of million and destruction of people world wide. Ruining the world economy. He is a criminal mass murder for money. Line his own pockets, He had already betrayed his Russian compatriots, causing the death of innocent people. Betrayed his country fir money, A useless greedy scum bag causing trouble heart ache in every way He could a mass murder with absolutely no conscience. A gangster and a despicable cold blooded murdering despicable cheat. Killing many families.
(@ Craig Murray info)
Along with Steele the other ex M15/6. Ex operator. A cheating lying mass murderer cause economic destruction all over the world. On behalf of the Westminster crooks. They complied a dodgy dossier about Donald Trump. Another ‘ Dodgy dossier. ‘Remember the last one. Iraq responsible for illegal wars and killing all over the world. Economic crisis, increased terror and a mass migration crisis in Europe etc. Blair. All were warned against by millions world wide. To no avail.
The British/Russo spy provided all the lying details. It was sold on to Clinton by Steele for money. Westminster Gov did not want or exoect Trump to win. They were in collusion with Obama/Clinton for time. Also mass murderers for money. Wasting £Billion and causing ecomomic crisis. Sanctioning killing and starving their citizens. It must be the Western way?
The ‘dirty dossier’ was to be used to discredit Donald Trump presidency and try to bring him down and discredit him. Clinton/Obama started to leak out the smears. Especially when he won, Sore loosers, To try to get rid of him. Saying the Russian connection were illegal or somehow not patriotic. Against US Law. To try and topple him so she could get the Presidency.
The dodgy dossier was lies a made up fabrication (@ Craig Murray). A complete fabrication, Steele (went into hiding for a time) was only to make money out of it to smear Trump. A dangerous game to pay. If the plan failed and he go found out. . Not knowing he (Steele) would get found out or be identified.
Desimond
Tory BBC led msm has been brainwashing us to vote against our interests, well for the whole planet really, for a very long time now.
Just try and sit through one episode of BBC Scotland SNP.out Reporting Scotland. Professional liars do get well rewarded right enough.
This is the end game.
The distortion of Polls like these in the BritNat Media has only one objective.
Providing Westminster and BritNats in Scotland the line:
“There is no appetite for a Second Indy Ref”
Funny how this Poll’s results are released and can be reported on on the same day our First Minister is meeting with the MayBot at the Joint Ministerial Council at Downing Street.
Setting up The BritNat Media nicely for tonight’s bulletins:
“Sturgeon won’t back down/no agreement on powers coming back from EU, however the latest poll shows only 22% yada, yada etc. etc.”
The usual from the anti-independence press.
Well lets hit them where it hurts, I urge Dundonian’s not to buy a news rag that attempts in a round about to lie to them.
The K500 rant does bring up another reason to believe this is a put up job.
Assuming that every “mysterious” death of an ex-Russian spy is actually an assassination it follows that the ambiguity is part of the method. Which in turn means that these targets are taken out with no collateral damage.
If this had simply been a capitalist scumbag who betrayed his own people for money then there’s a fair few in the UK who would be going fuck him. Same as it’d be easy to find members of the public in the UK to take part in an equivalent vox popski to the one shown on the BBC.
Some of this is being stage managed to cause fear in the UK. If not by Westminster then by whoever is behind it.
It’s all they have, spin, twisting again, lies and more lies.
They are bloody terrified now knowing that Brexit has and is changing many peoples’ ideas about just how unfriendly, and bullying the rUK and the UKGov can be towards Scotland.
People are not daft they see the contempt that May and her followers and her Labour followers have for Scotland, the SNP, and Scotland’s people.
Most days these rags are left on the shelves, only to be sent back to whence they came, to be shredded.
The Britnat arguments, I mean lies, have also been exposed, so it’s time England had their independence, after all, Scotland is such a massive burden on them in so many ways. ;-/
Excellent point Frogesque! regards Nos wanting a a ref to put it to bed, and Yessers – feart of a loss.
I think a second loss would end the movement for a long, long time – just look at Quebec – but at the same time if it is called ; I will get off my arse and do much more than just sending PDFs, pub debates etc and actually deliver leaflets, volunteer to drive people etc whatever can be done!
Like some have said though. Most Yessers accepted the result in 2014 but the SNP were elected on this platform in 2015,2016,2017 that if Brexit does happen then we should have the right to hold a second referendum – considering every single county council in Scotland voted to stay and Eng/Wales voted to leave then we should have a second referendum.
It maybe is/will come a little too early for some, but the goal posts have not only been changed regarding Scotland’s current position in the UK and EU but they’ve been turned inside out.
I want the SNP get on with a positive, EFTA type argument for an Indy-Scotland in the foreseeable future. They need to be pro-active and get cracking on.
Agree though it is a game of chess at the moment considering Brexit has not yet happened and a mixture of sitting tight along with focusing on Holyrood is working for the party – Tories down to 3rd in polls, and the SNP gaining in the polls again e.g that latest one (GE result was 36% now up to 39%)
I am not certain we will the second referendum, but I’d like to think with more armchairs supporters involved in whatever way they can be – we certainly would have a great chance at winning it!
This is why I prefer to buy the paper of the national copy rather than the didgital one I can leave the headline an a bus cafe train waiting room any public place
Yet they want you dip into your pocket and save their collective butts, support their editorial and respect their moral judgements and professionalism. Uh huh!
Mmmmmm, I’m going with no on that.
There’s also the methodology of when, where and how you conduct your poll. So imagine you were going to run a poll about sectarian trouble in Scotland and you were NOT actually against it.
So you get people with clip boards and instructed how to spot likely people who would be inclined to also be against suppressing sectarianism.
Here’s a wee clue for you. Tell them to choose the ones with football strip tops on and/or wearing hats, ties or scarfs with red, white and Blue on them and, (if the Gers are at home), stand them around the Ibrox area.
If the Celts are away then position your guys with the clipboards near whatever football stadium the Celts away game is to be played. Also remember to carry out the survey around the same time that football games are played.
Then if you want to bias a poll in favour of the Tory party carry out your survey in Morningside in Edinburgh and Kelvinside in Glasgow and other such like areas that you will find in every Scottish Town or city.
Not to mention you must choose the way the question is put, very, very carefully.
The point is there is no way you can really get a truly random sample. For example, if you have a telephone poll and want to get an older person biased sample then survey landline telephones. If you want a more youthful sample you survey mobiles.
If you want a Labour biased survey you sample Daily Record readers but to bias it to Tory you sample Daily Mail. It’s science, Jim, but rocket science it ain’t.
I cannot believe these figures. Surely the way Brexit is going and the disastrous results predicted any sane Scot would do his/her best to stay with Europe even it meant joining N. Ireland and Wales, allowing England to go its own way.
So much time – so much discussion has passed and to date there is NOT ONE positive outcome. As opposed to blue passport I would love to have one which showed ‘Scotland’ on the cover.
this union needs to be put out of its misery…….kinder to do it sooner rather than later
Interestingly how many say they want ScotRef and / or Indy because of Brexit.
Brexit will drive people from NO to YES in two ways IMO. Firstly because it’s a shite idea and will cause widespread damage which will become increasing obvious. Secondly because of the way The Tories are acting towards Scotland.
These two forces might effect different groups of people.
Those with wealth, pensions, income and status might begin to see Brexit as a bigger threat than Indy. Many don’t care how Scotland is treated.
Those who believe in devolution, a Scottish Parliament, misguided DevoMaxers and Federalists, might be offended enough to shift to YES.
What is best about these pressures, which I’m sure exist to some extent, is it’s all the Tories own doing!
Thatcher iderectly brought about devolution and Holyrood. May loos odds on to help deliver Indy.
I could stand in any shopping mall with a clipboard and get any answer to any question … Just look at how people are dressed !
BBC now talking openly about removing RT licence to operate in the UK…
……i better start practising my goose stepping so that i can better fit in, in the new UK…..just in case the fascists get their way like..
Interesting times to be a toryboy in his Scotland region.
From,
link to snp.org
to,
SLabour’s er, take on it all today. Unionist double speak, or what.
SLab’s Edinburgh Southern MP on FB.
Daniel Johnson
10 mins ·
My contribution to the Brexit Continuity Debate: I remind the chamber that devolution is not just what powers that this Parliament has to exercise, but is also about the way that we exercise those powers.
Handing untrammelled power to Scottish Ministers does not add to devolution, but signals a power grab by Scottish Ministers wishing to bypass the scrutiny of parliament.”
Handing untrammelled power to Scottish Ministers does not add to devolution, is an odd thing to say even for SLabour.
It is all in the yoon spin though.
Ofcom not making a statement on Russia To-day until they hear what Theresa May says on the subject. Some independent “non political” body.
Politics Scotland coverage of Westminster PMQs on English NHS cuts reference to the performance of the Welsh NHS under Labour.
Politics Scotland coverage of Westminster PMQs on English NHS cuts reference to the performance of the Welsh NHS under Labour.
Politics British tucks it all out of the way, natch.
PMQ’s
link to bbc.co.uk
What else came up?
The SNP’s leader at Westminster, Ian Blackford, raised Clause 11 of the European Union Withdrawal Bill.”
Robert Peffers at 2.50pm
Your comments regarding older people by phone rings true.
First time ever, we were phoned on the landline at the weekend and, after answering a few questions which I felt were loaded in regard to the answer one might give to a slanted question, I asked Ipsos who they represented and was given to understand it was a Westminster body.
I then decided not to proceed further, as I felt my answers could be slewed to give negative comment in regard to Scotland.
@ ‘Dirty dossier’ retribution
Clinton/Obama were to try to use the ‘dirty dossier’ leaks to get Trump impeached. and bring him down. Any connects Trump had with the Russians during the campaign was perfectly legitimate. He was the next presidential candidate. Clinton and Obama knew about the meeting because they were bugging Trump Tower were his campaign was based. CIA/FBI. It is a Federal criminal offence to bug an American citizen without a official warrant. A breach of Fed Law punished by prison. A jail sentence even for Fed/Gov agency. Sacking offence.
To overcome this used many times. In different situations.By various agencies to break the Law. CIA/FBI and M15/6 cooperation and others, They get each agency to illegally bug ? each other’s potential targets in each other’s countries and elsewhere. So if anything happens they can make denial. Even though they instigated and arranged it. They can say they did not do. They did not physically carried the act out. Obama denied all involvement as well or he would have been charged. A Federal criminal offence. He was leaving Office anyway.
Trump knew they were bugging him because he knew from the information being leaked and appearing. They had been listening in to conversation and contacts.
It would have been illegal for CIA/FBI to do it. Without the relevant legal clearance which was illegal What these ‘ intelligence?’ agencies do. They co operate. So if the CIA/FBI (Obama) want to do it. They get M15/6 to organise the covert survellience. So when anything goes wrong. Any investigation into the illegal activities. Unlawful. The CIA/FBI chiefs can deny that they did it. It is a unlawful offence to lie to a US investigating committee. The chief of staff did go in front of the committee and deny any knowledge. Claimed the fifth amendment. Refused to answer question which incriminated him. He got the sack anyway.
Trump is clearing out the swamp. Doing things a different way. Especially foreign policy. Look for co operation. The US Defence bill is astronomical. They spent half the taxes raised on the Military. $Billions. Many people are in poverty and debt. 300milion pop. They have 800 military bases all over the world. Russia has 80. China 1.2Billion pop spends 1/4 comparable revenues. US is in $Trillions of debt.
Clinton was investigated for other federal security offences. Her campaign was corrupt. Favouritism breaking campaigning rule. Funded by Saudi money. She was e-mailing them for $Millions of campaigning funding. Illegal donations not declared. People/candidate virtually have to be multi millionaires tomcampsign for the US Presidency. The stakes are so high.
They kept up the pressure stating that the Russian association were behind the Trump Election victory. With absolutely no proof. They started a campaign to fry and impeach him. Demanded they put sanction on Russia which Trump was reluctant to do because he knew it was not true and would damage the world economy unnecessarily. It was a stitch up and that the British Gov ‘intelligence’ were involved. When it came out Steele and the British/Russo was involved. Westminster committee has questioned him? To try and get to the bottom of what was going on. Putin because aware of what was going on. That sanctions would damage the Russian economy and bring harm to millions of people.
The Plot had got out of hand, Someone virtually anyone could have been involved in retribution. From the paid agencies to any one country involved. The British/Russo spy deserved retribution. He has been obviously been given chance after chance but still continued the despicable criminal behaviour for total greed and avarice with a total disregard of the consequences of his action. It is a wonder he is not dead, or maybe he is and it is being covered up. Trying to start WW3.
Boris Johnston trying to divert from the madness of Brexit. Complete imbecile with a complete badness. . He should be out in jail. A lying ignorant psychopath bastard causing trouble in every way he can. Everywhere he can to line his own pockets. Party to killing and maiming innocent people worldwide. Along with the rest of the Tory – unionist. A complete disgrace. Criminals without any compassion or guilt. Dope on a rope. Fantasists. Now the continuing carry on, Why don’t they get stuff. Alcohol and drug abusers. They are not fit for purpose, ignorant low lives. They do not like crude wealthy Americans. Americans do not like privileged, arrogant, conceited wealthy Oxbridge boys.
All we need now is for the BBC to put this information out there as news then we will all know that must be true.
These figures are just fine. Brexit has not even bitten yet remember. But it will. If you recall, the figures for indy and the referendum were much lower prior to the last one.
Having a baseline of around 47% for indy is fantastic and offers a real fighting chance of achieving a strong YES.
Time and events are on our side this time round so we must be prepared to do the heavy lifting. Very happy indeed.
Media—– liars and deceivers still.
…99% of Scots don’t read this rag anyway! A real stat.
However I’m sure the BBC will help promote the story.
A very useful poll to be sitting in the background for Nicola’s visit to Downing Street today. Independence sitting perilously close to a majority and the Tories in third place.
Unless Leask is intending on providing a detailed breakdown of voters view with the intent of intelligent discussion regarding the rise of support for independence then that Tweet is dishonest…then again he is a journalist.
When they locate the Russian Bear suit in a wheelie bin in Salisbury I’d be prepared to bet the label next to the washing instructions says ‘Made in the USA’.
I’ve heard Mossad are in the frame too but I don’t rate that as a distinction. The fifty first state wouldn’t be likely to act without approval of Uncle Sam.
The only crumb of comfort for our inept Tory puppets in Westminster is an excuse to have dig at RT. Small recompense for looking like complete bozos I’d have thought.
WESTMINSTER CONTINUES TO PLAY SCOTLAND FOR TIME –
Hoping to force a fatal delay of a September 2018 Independence Referendum.
link to randompublicjournal.com
As The English Establishment squirms uncomfortably between desperation and panic, the necessity to disrupt the Scottish Government plan to hold IndyRef2 this coming September becomes even more acute. Already begun, the next few months will see the Tory Govt., the State orchestrated media and the State Security Services, act out the Establishment’s plan to scupper Indy2. Salisbury is almost certainly part of it and is now a huge squirrel in the media.
Remember, for the English Ruling Class, this is a matter of life or death. As it also is for Scotland, but in English eyes, the Scots don’t matter.
Ahundredthidiot.3.09pm. I’ll laugh my b****cks off when russia kicks their sorry lying beeb ar**s out of russia.
Telegraph headline … “Nicola Sturgeon is still struggling to get herself a starring role in Brexit.”
It’s like they are in complete denial about what a hard Brexit will trigger.
Day after a YES win we’ll see who’s a star and it won’t be the sitting UK PM, whoever that might be.
I loathe the BBC.
I hate STV even more
As for the British press, never let the truth get in the way of a pack of lies.
Traitors and charlatans every one of them.
The ‘mainstream’ media in Scotland, yet again proving just why NOBODY with half a brain trusts a freaking thing they say anymore.
It’s just pro-Britannia propaganda, all the way. Un- f*****g real.
Then they go on telly greetin cause nobody wants to buy their crappy lying pro Britannia papers anymore. Boo f****** hoo. Wise up, FFS.
Telegraph headline … “Nicola Sturgeon is still struggling to get herself a starring role in Brexit.”
Its a catastrofuck of monumental proportions, so the toryboys pick a fight with the Russians.
Tbf, for talented beeb spin doc gimps, these are the glory days for BBC propaganda, red and blue tory corrupt wise.
This is it, what they’ve been training for their whole professional lives, bit like Spartans, without the six packs or Gerard Butler, from Paisley, also the birthplace of one the BBC’s most influential and aggressive beeb spin docs ever, Ligger Neil.
Crushing indyref2 will probably be Ligger’s Neil greatest work.
How do they reconcile the fact that 46%, according to the poll, support Yes. So support for Yes far exceeds the demand for a referendum.
If MSM wishes to sell papers in Scotland they should try subjects the people will read and know to be true. To read something in a news paper, discus it with your mates at tea break only to find out its a blatant lie, as your workmates pull out there Phones and show you whats printed elsewhere, leaving you feeling like a right muppet. This is why the MSM are dying, and good riddance to them.
Just think, we have had four years of unrelenting British nationalistic propaganda and hubris – perpetrated principally by the paid liars at pacific Quay, since the referendum we narrowly lost. Four years of anti Scotland propaganda by (England controlled) so-called ‘Scottish’ ‘news’papers. Four years of union jacks getting plastered over nearly everything we buy. Four years of the most rabid, deranged, dangerous, Scotland-hating far right wing, racist Tory Government on record.
Yet still, the SNP vote is up and the pro indy vote is up, with a clear pro indy majority in the under 55’s.
I feel the anger building in Scotland. They see what London is up to with the Parliament and do not like it at all. People are like a coiled spring getting wound and wound. We are ready.
London should be feart. Independence is coming.
But if 47% want one and they say it’s 22%. Do they think that the 47% will decide they don’t want one because a paper pretended it was 22%. The mind boggles. You can’t lie to the population who took part in the poll it’s pointless.
Marcia 4.16 -They probably never thought that far ahead.
@Rabby says: 14 March, 2018 at 2:52 pm:
“As opposed to blue passport I would love to have one which showed ‘Scotland’ on the cover.”
I don’t mind it being blue but it will be the wrong shade of blue and will be missing the diagonal St Andrew’s Cross in the centre.
Robert Louis
could not have put it better myself, Scotland is bracing itself waiting on the word. Ready to launch forward like a coiled spring carrying all before it .
Anyone with half a brain will know that any “poll” carried out by a Westminster/ britnat organisation,is absolutely guaranteed to be rigged. C’mon ffs they are just not going to let us walk away easy peasy. Even though we are such a financial burden on them.
Ian Blackford, SNP MP, embarrasses himself feeding bbc anti russia hysteria
There is a time to shut up and let due process flow….and Ian, that is now.
ya eijit
No referendum, just cancel the Treaty of the Union of Parliaments.
Paul Brice (Sir), the voice in Ken McIntosh’s ear, telling Ken the Scottish Parliament didn’t have sufficient competence to pass such a Bill.
Paul Brice – big job, but such a low profile as he reports every word straight to 10 Downing St. You’re never alone with the Tories in power.
And we thought Mundell was Westminster’s man in Scotland.
Paul Grice awarded KBE in New Year’s Honours 2016
Policy Scotland are pleased to note that Advisory Board Member, Paul Grice, has been awarded a Knighthood (KBE) in the New Year Honour’s 2016 for services to the Scottish parliament and voluntary service to higher education and the community in Scotland.
Paul has sat on the Policy Scotland Advisory Board from its inception, June 2013. As Clerk and Chief Executive of the Scottish Parliament Paul leads the Scottish Parliamentary Service which is responsible for delivering all services to the Parliament and its Members. The Parliament employs around 450 staff and has an annual budget of around £75m.
Paul joined the Scottish Office in 1992 working on Housing and Urban Regeneration Policy, then headed up the Management of Change Unit. He joined the Constitution Group in May 1997 with responsibility for the Referendum on establishing the Scottish Parliament: subsequently managed the Scotland Act which laid the new constitutional framework. Paul was appointed Director of Implementation for the Scottish Parliament in 1999 and set up parliamentary organisation and the associated support systems. He was appointed Clerk and Chief Executive of the Parliament in summer 1999.
Paul served as a Member of University Court at Stirling, 2006-13 (Chair of the Finance and Resources Committee, 2008-12), and as Secretary to Scotland’s Futures Forum, 2005-13. He has been an Honorary Fellow of RIAS since 2006; an Economic and Social Research Council Member since 2009 (Chair of Audit Committee, 2010-13, and Chair of Methods and Infrastructure since 2013); a Bank of Scotland Foundation Trustee since 2011; and an Edinburgh International Festival Board Member since 2013.
If only 22% want a referendum but 48% want independence then I presume 26% want to declare UDI.
Maybe their headline should be ‘more voters support UDI rather than a referendum’. It’s rubbish of course but as valid a conclusion as the nonsense on the MSM
Water appears to get faster as it approaches the plughole, just like the spin from WM.
The next time you empty the sink, just think its WM and tell everyone you meet that day to vote YES next time.
With all the shite that’s happened since 2014 I find it absolutely mind-blowing & hugely saddening that so many don’t want a second referendum.
We really are a timid, cowardly bunch.
To be expected, The Evening Telegraph is from the arch-yoonie D.C. Thomson stable. Unfortunately, their morning daily is / was the most widely circulated in Scotland.
@Ian Foulds says: 14 March, 2018 at 3:28 pm:
“Your comments regarding older people by phone rings true.”
Yes, Ian, the point though is that, in the main, the only reason the younger generations retain a land line is to connect to the internet and that is getting old hat now as the ISP’s are going for total fibre links including between the green box and the property. I have fibre but only to the distribution in the street.
Most of the younger generation only have mobiles and these are often never out of their hands. So land line surveys are almost certain to be mainly older people.
The other point is that newspaper and on-line polls are inherently politically biased as are the newspapers themselves.
As per Ken500s Russian Chemical Weapons posts.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
and
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Also check distance from Salisbury town centre to Porton Down
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
Saw that Ian Blackford interview as well.
He was in embarrassingly full ‘weapons of mass destruction’ mode.
Either the SNP know something we don’t –
or they’re deliberately playing the Westminster game for other reasons
or its a full blown Stockholm Syndrome outburst – and we need to get out of there fast.
Of course the BBC guy tried to take advantage and get a condemnation of Alex Salmond.
No such luck!
But I was disappointed Blackford didn’t point out he was being interviewed on a state-funded network.
Yeah, another take and in fact a realistic one is of course that less than half oppose Indy Ref 2.
On the subject of showing the media up for what are in fact lies, interesting article yesterday in UKDJ, and the comments show that all basically think it’s a rag [when it comes to defence]. But some will still take their view of Scotland, the SNP and Independence from the same paper and similar rags without questions.
link to ukdefencejournal.org.uk
That’s the unionist Achiile’s Heel – show the unoinist rags up for their reporting on other non-controversial issues, and get the undecided and soft noes to disbelieve all that they read in the rags.
It’s certainly very suspect why polls showing us at 50% plus are rarer than hens teeth. You would almost think it’s a deliberate tactic to keep the plebs controlled and temper confidence.
The Dundee fuckin Telegraph ? Must have a circulation of about 2 – Editor’s mum and wee brother most likely.
Robert Peffers at 4.48pm
Thanks for that insight and info, Robert.
I must admit the only reason we have a landline, at the moment, is for the internet.
Glad to know that the requirement is likely to change.
The poll is only the opinions of the people they say they asked they in no way represent the whole of Scotland as they would have you believe made up news not worth a dam and OT why will the Tory gov., not give Russia a sample of the nerve gas ??? There can only be one answer because it would prove that Russia is not to blame I. Still think it was a leak from Portan down only 8 miles away they are trying to hide I mean two agents who are skilled failing,to kill two people and contaminating Halfe a town in the process is just beyond beliefe
If those who don’t want to vote don’t, fine by me
The Brexit fiasco has a way to run yet. Some people I speak to are completely unaware of the power grab and what it means.
Just hold fast until they can’t hide the the truth from the general public any longer. Then people will be demanding Indyref2. It will be obvious when the time is right.
Bloomberg report today that the UK/rUK will still be paying off the bill of 41.4 billion Euros for Brexit. Hopefully Scotland will be Independent by that time.
…. in 2064. Hopefully ….
@Street Andrew says: 14 March, 2018 at 3:47 pm:
“The only crumb of comfort for our inept Tory puppets in Westminster is an excuse to have dig at RT. Small recompense for looking like complete bozos I’d have thought.”
Now I’m going to explain something that may open a lot of eyes.
First I’ll make it clear that I worked for the MOD in a RADIAC Lab. We tested, repaired and calibrated instruments which detected, counted and recorded all forms of radiation.
Not just Radioactivity, however, for they also gave us the job of doing instruments used to detect and measure Chemical and Biological weapons.
So consider this, to calibrate an electronic instrument you start off by calibrating the electronic circuits and to do that you use Signal Generators to produce the equivalent electronic signals the instruments use.
These electronic signals from a test generator only test and calibrate the electronic circuits of the instruments but the very first stage of all such instruments is a detector and a transducer. These first detect the radiation, chemical or whatever it is you are detecting and the output of that detector is changed, (transduced), into an electronic signal.
For example a digital thermometer first needs a heat/cold detector and a transducer to convert what it detects into an electronic signal.
So just how do you figure we could do the final calibration if we did not have, “Calibration Standard Sources” of whatever it was the instrument was designed to detect and measure?
So, here’s the thing, I’ve been in all the UK Government Top Secret establishment where they make those Standard Calibration Sources we used in our Calibration Centres. Including I’ve been to Porton Down:-
link to en.wikipedia.org
So here’s the thing that the general public will NOT have yet put two and two together and made come to four.
Every military force in the World must have, at least small samples, of all radioactive substances, chemical substances and biological warfare substances, (including Nerve gas), in order to calibrate and test the instruments they use to protect their troops, and themselves, from enemy attacks with such weapons.
That includes the substance that was used on the present case of the Spy for The United Kingdom and his daughter.
Now lookmay at the address of the poisoning incident and the address of Potron Down.
Do you now perhaps add two and two as, perhaps, totalling four? Ask the pertinent question, what evidence has Theresa May got that pinpoints only Russia from every other state with a military force?
Make flyers with the Dundee a Telegraph’s Lie . . . And the STV article . . . . With some words to join it all together . . . Then post them through every letterbox in Dundee . . . . Job Done a city of YES votes for Indy Ref2
An informative post Robert and thank you for the information.
The answer is of course, little to none.
@ Jockanese Wind Talker – thx for the link to Craig’s latest post on the Novichok hysteria. Looks like another own goal for “the West”. The WMD episode alerted us to the lies and mendacity which fuels Wetminster. The Chilcot Inquiry wasted years and produced nothing of value.
Boris Johnston, as Foreign Secretary, is responsible for MI6 and so ought to know the true origin of any chemical agents used in Salisbury.
I hear Jeremy Corbyn asked the question – how has she responded to the request for a sample of the substance. No answer.
Clydebuilt at 5.57
That is exactly the sort of then gwe should be doing. We need a rapid response unit which can print up hard hitting leaflets immediately and a team prepared to travel to put them out if need be.
The problem for the UK Gov and the UN is that the UK signed up and ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention decades ago and to which all but about 5 countries have signed up and ratified, and when there’s a dispute between two states such as the UK and Russia, Russia is entitled to take part in testing or receive a sample, and then also to independent testing (Article 9 I think). If the UN backs the UK calls for “solidarity” then it is not worth the paper it is written on.
In addition to RP’s posting about samples, it depends where these are manufactured, and the likelihood is that testing can prove that, by way of background counts of radiation and impurities in the basic ingredients. A sample made for instance at Porton Down would have slight but measurable differences from one made in Russia or anywhere else. It’s probably called a “signature” technically. Means of testing could include fluoroscopy if that’s a word!
Meanwhile the UK has at least gone back to the Cold War standard of expelling some Russian citizens which could perhaps be looked at as a de-escalation of its frankly amateur previous response.
I have had encounters with representatives of the 47%, sad to tell I have yet to encounter signs of higher intelligence. A barren waste, unlikely to provide any yield.
‘The Brexit fiasco has a way to run yet. Some people I speak to are completely unaware of the power grab and what it means.’
Yip, once Nicola makes her statement explaining in great detail why #ScotRef is necessary, your average run of the mill voter will probably freak out. Lol.
Jockanese Wind Talker says:
As always, Craig puts forward a well thought through case.
I remember when TV had good (if my memory is correct) investigative programs which seemed to uncover stories and get to the bottom of events. World in Action, Panorama, Dispatches. The latter two still exist, I gather. I haven’t noticed them exposing much recently, then again, I don’t look to mainstream TV for my exposés.
But somehow, in my mind, in another era, TV programmes like that would have been all over this chemical attack and offering insight.
The same could be said for dead tree investigative journalism.
If Craig Murray can find out expert opinion on these chemicals, then why is no one else doing it these days?
Has our mainstream media been totally absorbed by the Establishment?
Looks that way!
And I suspect from the UK Gov’s actions today it broached the possibility of UN support for its actions and was knocked back.
Our side, Scottish Nationalism, is solid.
Their side, UK Unionist-Loyalism needs to be lied to.
Look how much the young and the savvy support us.
@Bobp says: 14 March, 2018 at 4:01 pm:
“Ahundredthidiot.3.09pm. I’ll laugh my b****cks off when russia kicks their sorry lying beeb ar**s out of russia.”
The Russians won’t kick the BBC out of Russia, Bobp, they won’t need to.
go to this link:-
link to britishgas.co.uk
Look at the Graphic and now look at the bottom Right Hand corner.
The Maybot is threatening the Russians but has not, as yet, shown she has any proof that Russia has anything to do with the spy attempted, (could yet be successful), assassination.
She has not the military to bother Russia so it is likely she is threatening trade sanctions. The Russians would immediately hit back by cutting the supplies of Russian Natural gas and the United Kingdom will be screwed in a few days.
Watched Politics Scotland this afternoon. It’s like a British Nationalist chat show. The Brewer and Torrance chatting away like old pals. Torrance picking up his fee for the same old SNP bad rubbish.
A phrase you will always hear on this programme – ” to be fair to the UK government”.
A phrase you will never hear – ” to be fair to The Scottish Government”.
Still to hear any evidence that it was the Ruskis that done it. The House of Commons is like a good old fashioned lynch mob. “””WHO NEEDS EVIDENCE WE KNOW THEY DID IT.”””” British justice in action.
Sad to hear SNP politicians joining in.
Very disappointed in Kirsty Blackman joining in on criticising Alex Salmond for being on RT. Is the Stockholm syndrome taking effect even on SNP MPs? Is there no one in the SNP who will call out the BBC on its own propaganda?Halve the Westminster MPs have been on RT – bloody hypocrites. It wasn’t a problem for the great British hero Tim Peake to use a Russian rocket. It wasnt a problem for the Tories to take all that money from Russians. Of course no show from the BBC seems to take place now without the Bampot Ross Thomson on it.
Common Weal have just produced ‘How to start a New Country’.
link to allofusfirst.org
5 quid plus 2 quid p&p.
Time for new Scottish Independence referendum as new poll shows most Scots (60%) believe they will be worse off when UK leaves the EU
http://www.SIRP.Scot
March 14, 2018
With six in 10 Scots (61%) fearing they will be worse off as a result of leaving the EU in a UK-led Brexit, the time is fast-approaching when a new Independence Referendum for Scotland is needed.
Commenting on the results of the IPSOS MORI poll, Mark R Whittet, leader of Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party, said:
“The 2014 Scottish independence referendum was based on Tory-led Brit-Govt lies that Scotland would be worse off outside the UK, and that the only way Scotland could remain in the EU was to vote ‘No’ to independence from England.
“As recently confirmed by official Brit-Govt leaked data, the real truth is that Scotland will be worse off outside the EU – and the only way that Scotland can remain in the EU is by leaving the United Kingdom.
“The Brexit bourach is a game-changer for Scottish independence and proves beyond reasonable doubt the grounds for a new referendum in Scotland on independence – not least because support for Scotland’s independence is growing, up to 48% now from 45% in the 2014 referendum.”
NOTES:
IPSOS MORI poll results:
Do you think that the UK’s / Scotland’s economy will be better off or worse off as a result of leaving the EU?
UK’s Economy
Worse off: 61%
Better off: 14%
No difference: 15%
Don’t know: 10%
Scotland’s Economy
Worse off: 61%
Better off: 12%
No difference: 18%
Don’t know: 8%
Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES 48%
NO 52%
(undecideds/refused removed)
By Age 16-24 25-34 35-54 55+
YES 57% 59% 48% 35%
NO 42% 37% 46% 63%
Undecided 1% 4% 6% 3%
Notes to editors:
Ipsos MORI poll for STV, 1050 Scottish adults aged 16+, Fieldwork 5-11 March 2018
‘Bourach’ is the Scots language word for; a muddle, mess, state of confusion, disorganised heap; eg;-
“Brexit is a richt bourach’
‘Brexit will become a richt bourach’
Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party
The primary goal – and number one objective in the constitution of Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party – is to achieve political Independence for Scotland.
We aim to do so by helping to bring about a new/ second Scottish Independence Referendum in light of the entirely-changed political and constitutional landscape following the UK Brexit vote.
We shall do this by providing a meaningful, valid, SECOND choice/ chance to vote for Independence-supporting MSPs in elections to the next Scottish Parliament; ie SNP party members/ voters can vote ‘first’ choice for SNP on the ballot paper, and then vote ‘second’ choice for Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party on the ballot paper.
This gives two choices/ chances/ votes in favour of Scotland’s Independence (instead of the present 1/ SNP – and reduces the ‘stray’/ use-less ‘second’ vote going to any other British Unionist party.
Despite the use of the word ‘Scottish’ in front of their names, the Liberals, Tories and Labour are all single, British Unionist parties and are all controlled from, and based in, their London head offices.
Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party is not competing with the SNP; rather, we want to work in a progressive alliance with
@galamcennalath
Just read Craig’s article. It’s a good article, the only problem as with so many articles everywhere, is the headline: “The Novichok Story Is Indeed Another Iraqi WMD Scam”.
Nope. That was Black in 2016, nearly 2 years ago, and a lot could have happened in 2 years, specially with the hoo-hah about Syria’s chemcial weapons. 2 years is a long time in intelligence, but revealing how things could have been obtained (methods) is suicide in intelligence, often literally (dead agents). The title of his article jumps to conclusions, so does the UK Gov. Both are wrong to do so.
Where is the fallout from Nicola’s meeting today with Theresa May? You know, the crunch meeting about the irreconcilable constitutional clash over continuity legislation which lights the blue touchpaper for IndyRef 2?
Ukania does more trade with Russia than vice versa. Old Ma Britannia in another characteristic fit of high dudgeon that may prove rather costly.
@yes indy ref2,
Craig also knows that the UK establishment organised killing squads in N Ireland to systematically target civilians rather than terrorists.i E. The Glenane Gang. UK citizens on UK soil.
Breeks,
Buried by the ‘we’ll show they pesky russkies’ mantra. Along with the rest of the brexit clusterf**k.
I haven’t read Craig’s new article yet, so he may have mentioned it but the last the glorious UK expelled a bunch of russian spies with diplomatic cover Russia responded by expelling a similar number of definitely not spies from Moscow, leaving the embassy rather dysfunctional!
The Herald and Scotsman, both on life support, about to die as their elderly readers pop their clogs.
David Leask, you are some man to be all the one man.
Keep lying, keep betraying your country, why don’t you?
When your English Masters have no more use for you, where will you find such easy money in journalism in Free Scotland?
Pathetic death rattle of the Scottish Branch of the English Establishment.
@yesindyref2 says: 14 March, 2018 at 6:11 pm:
” A sample made for instance at Porton Down would have slight but measurable differences from one made in Russia or anywhere else. It’s probably called a “signature” technically. Means of testing could include fluoroscopy if that’s a word!”
The test you probably mean, yesindyref2 is, “Spectrum Analysis”, but there is a snag with that in this case.
The whole point of the Russian made substance is that, in the first place, it uses easy to make and easy to acquire chemicals.
The Russian research had just that in mind so it isn’t too hard to produce and doesn’t require complex industrial processes.
Not only that but as you pointed out states signed up can demand samples for, and it makes good sense, how does a state develop antidotes if it cannot legally acquire or produce samples to use for research? Both Russia and the UK, as you correctly stated, “signed up to the deal”, but so did lots of others.
Which boils down to it being either utterly stupid or utterly ignorant of the truth, for Theresa and thus the United Kingdom to attempt to lay the blame upon Russia as the originator of a comparatively easy to produce, from common ingredients, substance.
Just about anyone, (with the proper knowledge), could produce that substance from ingredients that are not even on the restricted lists and thus they could be legitimately bought anywhere.
Furthermore, Novichok, is a series of Nerve Agents and some of them are binary solids. That means both parts can be powdered and are safe until both parts are mixed together.
It is also a fallacy that the ingredients are carefully controlled. The nerve agent is made from common and safe ingredients.
Here is a cut and paste from a current newspaper article:-
It is thus utter bollox for Theresa to point the finger at anyone or any one country.
This campaign against Russia is no more than a gigantic squirrel being used to distract the public from something else – the real question is – What is Theresa attempting to cover up?
Ah yes uk expels Russian diplomats.
Indyref2 – msm report Russian interference aimed at breaking up the uk.
I can see it now..
No hard evidence yet guilty. SNP supporters need to educate themselves on American imperialism. Another false flag. Has all the hallmarks of MI6/CIA covert action. May and the Britnat scum need to be shown up for what they represent. Deep state America are a major threat to world peace.
Meant to add to my previous post that the real origins of the nerve agent, “Novichok”, was in NAZI Germany during WWII.
It was being developed by the NAZIs and post WWII the Russian Scientists came across it while sending scientists to decommission German NAZI facilities. It was later developed by Russia and the Name, “Novichok”, means, “newcomer”, in Russian, (Or so I was told).
There’s bound to me something on the net about it – there always is but it may be hard to find among all the deliberate claptrap.
However, seek and thou shalt find.
Why would Russia and for that matter any country large or small take UK seriously when we have as Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs a blond chimp in a suit,
he represents the UK all round the world,
what little respect and admiration the UK had left from the glory days of the Brutish Empire would evaporate the minute the blond chimp turned up in your country,
(apologies to all chimps)
and parliament today was like a circus of bloodthirsty freaks and grotesques:Mogg,May,Benn,Kinnock,Tugendhat,Ruth`s dirty dozen,Patel,Duncan Smith,Soubry …
(apologies to all freaks and grotesques)
GET US THE F@CK OUT OF THIS POLITICAL UNION
Cubby says :
“Of course no show from the BBC seems to take place now without the Bampot Ross Thomson on it”.
Indeed Cubby but fortunately he is more of a liability than an asset to the Tories….his ineptitude and general shifty demeanor is strikingly similar to that other useless lump Mundell.
No style, no substance,no class and no heart it would seem as demonstrated in a Scottish Tory collective in their unnecessary vote to take food out of the mouths of children in England via cutting School meals…. The Maybot showing yet again how empty her promises were on the steps of Downing street when first elected PM….typical Tory….say one thing and do another.
I am sure ALL English Tory MP’s will be up in arms at Scottish Tories daring to vote on an EVEL matter and that the right wing press will be onto it as I type…silly me……..that is only an issue when a Scottish MP votes AGAINST the Tories on an English matter and is usually used as an attack on SNP MP’s….remember Foxgate.
Of course Hugh Gaffney also VOTED ,against it, and encouraged, in a tweet, support from SNP MP’s to follow him in also voting against it….of course he was definitely NOT playing party politics…oh no…obvs escaped his notice that it’s thanks to Labour that austerity was able to be implemented due to his party aka Labour party abstaining on welfare cuts in HOC thus giving impetus to continued further Tory cuts on the weakest in society…..did it also escape his notice Duh that it was an EVEL vote so too little too late and too ineffective in his display of pretence support for the part of society continually let down by all unionist parties….especially his fake party.
Would be nice to see them, both Scottish Tory and Labour, give more support to the needs of their own constituencies and more importantly the potential detrimental impact of Brexit on Scotland….that is the country who voted REMAIN und where their own constituencies are. Duh !!
Robert peffers 6.17pm. Thanks for that link Robert.
“ Cubby@0623” , saw the most blatant “ Britnat hysteria” on the politics Scotland “ “ program” this afternoon, with Brewer , Torrance and the “ Westminster correspondent” positively “ frothing at the mouth” in their combined enthusiasm to please their “ State propaganda bosses” with the full on Putin’s Russia “ outrage” on the “ streets of England’s green & pleasant land”. These recent days seems to have the “ state controlled propaganda outlets” in full “ war footing mode against the Russian state” whereby this ( “ criminal incident” ?) is being media manipulated into a full blown international crisis ( for what reason?). I would tend to agree with many other posters that the probability of these events being a result of some “ Russian factional dispute” would appear to have
Reasonable validity and it seems to me that whenever a Tory government is in severe trouble both at home and abroad , along comes an “ international dispute” whereby conveniently “ the House of Commons” has to “ come together” in support of the “ beleaguered Tory prime minister”. Of course also very conveniently the “ Westminster power grab dispute” has been completely overshadowed by the “ anti Russian hysteria” , and incidentally I feel that our first minister has been very wise today in deferring her thoughts and decision on this for another day. Finally perhaps we should remind all those “ frothing at the mouth” with anti Russian bile, of the fact that if it wasn’t for the staggeringly overwhelming sacrifice of the Soviet Union ( principally Russia) during world war 2 ( twenty six million , Yes 26 million military& civilian deaths) from the war against Nazi Germany , then very probably the Allies would not have prevailed. Thank you people of Russia for your wonderful sacrifice on all our behalf.
@RP
Yes, it was a Fluorescence Microscope I got the use of a few years back, not fluroscopy as such. Spectrum analysis is more like it.
Who did they ask? the southern economic retirees who are filling Scotland.
Regarding Russia. look at Israel and America. they have more to gain with sanctions against Russia.
If anyone believes the garbage coming from the British empire/media they are thick as pig shit.
Between sporting/economic sanctions from the west against Russia, Putin has shown more dignity leadership and statesman qualities than any of the arseholes who are trying to bring him down. The west want control of Russia’s gas/oil reserves, the fuckers have form on this with other countries.
Who do you think is behind Brexit? ( Not Russia)
Hi One_Scot at 6:14 pm.
You typed,
“Yip, once Nicola makes her statement explaining in great detail why #ScotRef is necessary, your average run of the mill voter will probably freak out. Lol.”
The only problem with that assertion is your assumption that Nicola’s statement will actually be reported by BBC Scotland and UK, STV and the unionist press.
Why would they? They all have a habit of ignoring ‘pro-Scottish’ news. You just have to keep an eye on this web site to see the ‘bias by omission’ that is rife in the Scottish MSM.
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
@grafter
Problem is it could just as easily be Chinese, Korean or Mossad agents, or others even, wanting to destabilise relations between the UK and Russia.
Ach “North chiel”.
“please” stop “scattergunning” “quote” commas in “your” comments.
Makes “it” really “hard” to read “your comments” because “I” find myself “pausing” “in my head” and “putting” “imaginary” stress on “your typing” every time I “read” the commas.
Makes your “comments” a lot more “difficult” to read with “fluidity”.
Onyways that’s it from me on the Russian thing before I get a chap at the door, so to speak. My point is to keep an open mind, unless perhaps Sturgeon and / or Blackford (appointed 18th July 2017) as suggested by others (orri?) as members of the Privy Council, have been shown indisuptable and authentic evidence, which is a possibility. Perhaps backed up by Police Scotland.
Between sporting/economic sanctions from the west against Russia, Putin has shown more dignity leadership and statesman qualities than any of the arseholes who are trying to bring him down.
He’s deadly, weird kleptocrat. Or pretty much youre average teamGB toryboy.
Russia’s got vast military stuff but its not an important economic power. And it should be given its first world develepment stage, population size and territorial mass.
Its barely half the size of the UK GDP wise, about the same as Italy.
This is probably why our tory imperial master baiters in merry olde London know they can sabre rattle at Putin. He’s not got a strong economy. The England north of the M25 has a bigger GDP than Russia.
Difference between a Russian oligarch stashing/laundering his billions in the City and a clubbable tory donating filthy rich City spivy hedge fund owner, funneling profit out to one of the many teamGB tax shelters, even as far away as sunny Guernsey, is…
Or, the difference between the beeb gimp network here in Scotland and RT in London is…
Rock (26th January – By hook or by Cook):
“The British Establishment makes sure that anyone who goes to Westminster gets corrupted.
56 SNP MPs achieved as much for Scotland as 6 would have: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
I would prefer that all of them are called back or lose their seats before they have been bought off.”
The SNP supporting Westminster in its false accusations against Russia prove my point.
I can say with 100% confidence that Saint Theresa is not going to give permission to Nicola to hold another referendum before Brexit has been completed.
I can say with 99% confidence that the establishment lawyer Nicola will not dare defy Saint Theresa and hold an illegal referendum.
Why would she and the rest of the SNP leadership want to go into exile in Belgium when they are doing fine here and at Westminster?
Before there is a flood of posters claiming that Scotland can hold an independence referendum whenever it wants to, the fact is that it has never yet done so without Westminster’s approval.
You can only prove me wrong if and when it does.
Why would she and the rest of the SNP leadership want to go into exile in Belgium when they are doing fine here and at Westminster?
Wish you’d go into exile in Belgium Rock:D
If England says Non to indyref2, good.
If England Yes to indyref2, good.
That’s what they want, us talking about a dray of red squirrels instead of brexit.
As for the SNP just agreeing with WM,if Scotland said anything else, they would use us as a squirrel.
link to bbc.co.uk
Nothing on the SNP website so far, but there is no forward movement from Nicola’s account, just ‘politicians talk’ about something that might happen in the future, which just plays into May’s time-killing strategy.
SELECT usual_garbage FROM 77th_Wings_DB WHERE poster=”Rock”;
LOOPY;
yesindyref2,
“unless perhaps Sturgeon and / or Blackford (appointed 18th July 2017) as suggested by others (orri?) as members of the Privy Council, have been shown indisuptable and authentic evidence, which is a possibility. Perhaps backed up by Police Scotland.”
Something like the “sexed up” dossier on Iraq’s non existent weapons of mass destruction?
The SNP should have pulled out of Westminster immediately after they had 56 MPs elected.
Now 23 have lost their seats and the rest are being bought off one by one, in my humble opinion.
wull2,
“As for the SNP just agreeing with WM,if Scotland said anything else, they would use us as a squirrel.”
The SNP could easily have said this in not a devolved matter and we are not in a position to comment.
Instead of stupidly alligning themselves with Westminster.
Everyone and their dog knows that the Russian state had nothing to do with this.
The SNP should have pulled out of Westminster immediately after they had 56 MPs elected.
What difference would that have made Rock?
Anyway, the 56, now 35 have been totally ghosted, by Westminster and their beeb led msn gimps, both sides of the border. Far cry from Lead don’t Leave, wept the awful but lethal drip Cameron, turned into shut it slags.
So again, what difference would it have made.
heedtracker,
“The SNP should have pulled out of Westminster immediately after they had 56 MPs elected.
What difference would that have made Rock?”
It would have led to a constitutional crisis and the end of the union, Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend.
Now the SNP has embedded itself into Westminster.
“ Brian@0804”, ok Brian I get your drift( no commas). Hopefully you eventually got mine.( no commas)
Oops! I just had a fit of the giggles. I had a visitor and lost track of the thread. When I came back I scrolled down to the bottom of the thread to see where we had got to. The last words on the last entry read,
“”Now 23 have lost their seats and the rest are being bought off one by one, in my humble opinion.”
And it was a longish post so I had to scroll back up to see what it was about and who wrote it.
It was a Rock comment. I didn’t read it but had a laughing fit at Rock claiming to have had, “A Humble opinion”, that guy has never had a humble opinion in his entire lifetime.
Yipee!
link to bbc.co.uk
It would have led to a constitutional crisis and the end of the union, Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend.
But there is no UK constitution Rock. Unless you can find it. Although my Slovene girlfriend says there is, there really is not. And that’s not by chance either.
My Slovene girlfriend is a constitutional lawyer, but that doesnt mean this farce union has a constitution at all. Its merely constitutional law or legal framework, that lets anyone in, Gina Davis for example sued UK gov. But Brexit’s giving UK gov to end that too. Because there is no UK constitution.
link to independent.co.uk
Its also why my Slovene girlfriend is able to rant away like so with just another unelected tory arse, fortunately.
Adam Tomkins MSP Retweeted
Murdo Fraser
?
Verified account
@murdo_fraser
Mar 9
More Murdo Fraser Retweeted Cabinet Office
Let’s not forget that the SNP want every single one of these powers returned to Brussels.
Waiting for the proud Scot buts including Scott Hastings to show the same furious outrage over Eddie Jones comments that they did over that incident at the train station in Manchester.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
14 March, 2018 at 8:58 pm
Yipee!
Last year Dave:-(
Dave McEwan Hill says:
14 March, 2018 at 8:58 pm
Yipee!
Check the date, its last year!
Hi “North chiel”.
8=)
RT broadcasting the statements in the UNSC re spy poisoning:
link to rt.com
SNP MP’s in Westminster ensured Scotland received £7Billlon which Osbourne was trying to take from Scotland. Worth every penny. They have done a wonderful job. Standing up for Scotland.
Catalonia and Scotland are totally different. The Scottish IndyRef is legal based on agreement. The Catalon one was not. Everything was and is different. Catalonia a Provence in. Federal, system etc
Scotland a country in a Union. Scotland older history. One of the oldest countries in the world.
Difference history, electoral system, economy, tax raising power, taxes, currency, culture, religion, holidays, foods drink, Eurozone, EU membership, legal system. Weather, agriculture, production Different, different, different, different.
Different agreements.
St Theresa will be gone by the end of the year. Nicola will be there as long as she likes with continued massive, major support. Even once rock is gone. Keeled over and under the ground. Nicola will be still be going strong,
Do not worry your wee heid about it. Stop stressing yersel, out about it. Rocking in the chair. Away and have a nice cup of tea. We will take care of you. Care in the community. Not prison. You wee smiley little thing. We will not throw yer down the swanny. Even though you are such a wee fanny. . Keep hard and strong. Best wishes for the future. Stuck in yer nice wee rut. You poor little f ck. Good luck. Nicola wil still be going strong. Long after you are gone. Do fuss yersel. Keep stroking. Nae hassle.
Watched Nicola’s statement after the TMay meeting.
I detected an undertone. Not what she said but the way she said it.
I sensed …… exasperation … I think.
I didnt hear Nicola’s statement after the meeting, but I did hear Radio Shortbread’s interpretation. Needless to say, somewhat different to the SNP tweets.
Meanwhile at Holyrood
link to twitter.com
link to twitter.com
Continuity Bill passes stage 2.
Hard rock coffee. The hard man has arrived early. Nice of you to drop by and read all the articles to get some information. Sadly lacking elsewhere. Must have been in a hurry and all excited to arrive early to sling some mud Into the pot. Stirring it. Yer wee sook. Watch yer do not wee yersel in all the excitement. Stinky.
Galamcennalath
I guessed, from her tone, that some pretty robust views were aired today.
At first I was dismayed to read the headline and think that a deal ‘can’ be done, but when I listened to her speak I understood her use of ‘can’. – it ‘can’ be done… if WM give up this ridiculous power grab and listen.
Am I right in thinking that the MSP’s are discussing the Continuity bill just now in Holyrood, trying to iron out the next step and that they may be sitting into the wee sma’ hours??
Anybody know where we can listen in – i’ve tried the Parliament website but can’t find any link.
Glamaig – you posted my answer just i posed the question – thanks. Good news then that we are past stage Two. Nicola will be pleased.
The Tories were wittering on about this Bill being ‘rammed’, (by majority, cross party support) through with only three days to discuss it in Holyrood, but at the ‘end of the day’ the Scottish Government are only copying the example set by the Tories at WM and imitation is the sincerest form of flattery , dear tRuthless.
Expect a couple of hundred amendments to be tabled before the final hurdle and some attempts at filibustering… they are getting desperate now.
Robert Peffers,
“It was a Rock comment. I didn’t read it but had a laughing fit at Rock claiming to have had, “A Humble opinion”, that guy has never had a humble opinion in his entire lifetime.”
Well not as humble as yours of course.
Some of YOUR most recent humble opinions:
Robert Peffers says:
12 March, 2018 at 2:10 pm (A historic breakthrough):
“Absolute and utter pish! Squirrel.”
Robert Peffers says:
12 March, 2018 at 11:44 pm (A historic breakthrough):
“Oh! Go and do some research before mouthing off, Valerie.”
Robert Peffers says:
13 March, 2018 at 3:05 pm (A historic breakthrough):
“Sheesh! Where do these uninformed numpties come from?”
Robert Peffers,
“And it was a longish post so I had to scroll back up to see what it was about and who wrote it.
It was a Rock comment. I didn’t read it but had a laughing fit at Rock”
You found out what it was about without reading it?
And you have the brass neck to call other posters “numpties”.
Anybody know where we can listen in – i’ve tried the Parliament website but can’t find any link.
Its probably going to have to be this, the temporary tory rule, if you can know what temporary means under tory rule over Scotland
link to bbc.co.uk
Ministers at Westminster insist that “the vast majority of powers returning from Brussels will start off in Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast”.
Ofcourse its the beeb gimp zone, so no mention of how long temporary means.
If anyone would have a laughing fit, it would be at your expense:
Robert Peffers says:
10 March, 2018 at 12:10 pm (In Scotland’s corner)
“Be aware, Robert Louis, that, “if Wingers still don’t read the National”, and some will not be in no position to obtain hard copies if they are in more isolated areas, then it is a total waste of time posting a link to an on-line National article for the National on-line goes behind a pay-wall unless the would be reader is already subscribed.”
Robert Peffers says:
10 March, 2018 at 3:15 pm (In Scotland’s corner)
“News Flash!
Tiny coloured immigrant held captive in Scotland.
link to thenational.scot”
So it is NOT “a total waste of time posting a link to an on-line National article” when the humble Robert Peffers posts it.
Capella – that’s a very interesting RT link to the UN council America and France stir the pot. Deeply undilomatic language considering the lack of evidence and the complexity of the enquiry/only just begun.
Could it be a motive is emerging for the Poison incident, the continued fight over Syria’s oil.
If so, this is not going away any time soon. How will they play it.
Escalate to a state of emergency – which will give them the excuse to shut down Wings etc
Decry all and any who criticise the WM Government for being unpatriotic and endangering our Soldiers/emergency workers.
Full co-operation from the media, remember Murdock has a stake in Genie Energy which was granted drilling rights in Syria by Isreal, should the country become so destabilised it needs to be occupied.
Full co-operation from the US, who will be looking for a stake in Scotland’s oil, in addition to Syria.
Generate a continuation, escalation of the war in Afghanistan/ Libia /Syria to distract all criticism.
Oh dear oh dear, and its not like any of this has never been done before.
I think we need the next Wee Blue Book out soon, before they put a stop to it being printed, and I think we need to get our referendum declared sooner rather than later. Suddenly Brexit is looking like small potatos.
Ken500,
“SNP MP’s in Westminster ensured Scotland received £7Billlon which Osbourne was trying to take from Scotland.”
More fake news.
heedtracker,
“Its also why my Slovene girlfriend is able to rant away”
In my humble opinion, no-one in Scotland is capable of ranting away more than you, Robert Peffers and Ken500, Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend.
Not even your Slovene (ex-)girlfriend.
In my humble opinion, no-one in Scotland is capable of ranting away more than you, Robert Peffers and Ken500, Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend.
Not even your Slovene (ex-)girlfriend.
Thanks Rock, damned by faint Rock praise.
Constitutional crisis UKOK is coming Rock but its not from the toryboy owned Scotland region, its another country, Ireland.
Toryboy UK has shafted the living shit out of Scottish democracy, since 2014, as their beeb gimps keeping selling us toryboy shite and calling it icecream.
But they cant shit on the Irish Rock.
Rock fuck back to yer barracks bawheid !!!!
Rock logs off soon, but
link to politico.eu
On the issue of the Northern Irish border, which remains a major stumbling block, the Parliament text says it welcomed the recent proposals in the European Commission’s draft Withdrawal Agreement, “which makes the backstop option outlined in the Joint Report of the 8th of December 2017 operational.”
According to that Commission document, in the absence of an alternative solution, Northern Ireland should remain part of the EU customs union and maintain full regulatory alignment — effectively imposing a new trade boundary in the Irish Sea. The proposal was rejected by London and Belfast, with May stating that no U.K. prime minister could agree to it.”
So what will our imperial masters do Rock?
Its interesting watching Prof Tomkins because he never gives it his attention.
As a world famous British! constitutional lawyer, world class carpetbagger and flip flopper extraordinaire, funny that:D
Heedtracker 10.11 pm. Aye heedtracker can you imagine RTE Ireland’s national broadcaster telling Irishmen and irishwomen that their country is sh*te. They are so lucky they dont have backstabbing barstewards living among them who detest their own country. There’s no no such thing as an Irish cringe or a proud “Irishman but”.
@ Daisy Walker – I also think they want Iran’s oil too. But the Chinese wont like that.
Russia itself has vast naturral resources. If only they could get rid of Putin and install another amenable patsy like Yeltsin their hostilty would evaporate.
. There’s no no such thing as an Irish cringe or a proud “Irishman but”.
But they can still listen to likes of BBC r4 tories explain how Ireland is still shit, like Scotland.
Last one I heard was explaining how the Irish are pleased that Ireland is doing really well, but that the Irish do not expect this to last, its a very Irish thing, explained the beeb gimp.
Unless you’re British and a tory, you’re shit according to the BBC.
Daisy walker
Oh dear, and there I was thinking I was being conspiratorial to make a link between the possibility of the Whisky industry’s sales to Russia being affected by this latest spat and you’ve written a whole article in the same vein.
According to the Herald, it’s too early for the whisky industry to panic but they’re concerned about the possible impact on sales to Russia – so…
Cut off funding to our Carbon capture projects;
cut funding to renewables;
sell the Forties pipeline to Ineos;
sell a lot of the North Sea oil fields to China;
stir up sectarianism – get Arlene’s pals to have a weekend break in Glasgow and a little stroll down the street before a bit of footie and then pop back home on the big ferry;
create an absolute storm about Russia as a pretext to allow all sorts of ab’normal’ legislation, – poison a double agent;
feign indignation when Corbyn points out the Russian funding of the Tory party;
shut down British access to RT – can’t have A Salmond telling the truth;
damage the whisky industry – they’ll be glad of American support post brexit;
get a chance to promote Trident;
can’t possibly go nuclear free now, better stay in the UK;
I really hope these things are not connected!
Great balance there discussing the STV poll…
Andy McIver and Angela Haggerty..
SNP are crap, SNP are independence and nobody else.
Indyref is not happening any time soon..!!
Etc etc…
Haggerty wearing black pvc thigh high hooker boots and looks like a cheap brass in out the cold..!
Fucking horrid !! Worse than the BBC.
Meg merrilees. Oh yes ,there was quite a lot of those scum on that march catching the ferry back to norn irn. As one of my relatives who work on it verified. Ffs waken up Scotland and stop being used as a sectarian punch bag.
Haggerty wearing black pvc thigh high hooker boots and looks like a cheap brass in out the cold..!
She’s not playing the complete UKOK media game though, is she? Cant imagine this is totally endearing her to loyalist ultra tory Pacific Quay gimps, especially Donalda.
Captain Haggerty
?
@AngelaHaggerty
Mar 11
Feminism, Brewdog and International Women’s Day … all I saw was a bunch of marketers and self-promoters hiding behind a cause to boost their own profiles. And I don’t just mean Brewdog, I’m talking about you pal – and me. My @newsundayherald column today
Heedtracker 8.42pm. Maybe a unilateral declaration of independence. WOULD certainly have set the cat among the pigeons, and shown the rest of the world the other”face” of the ‘mother of all parliaments, when they imposed direct rule. That would have shown the barstewards up for what they really are. And their imposition of direct rule would never have lasted.
Geeo 11pm
Watched this programme. Is A. Haggerty for Scottish independence? Is this what passes for a balanced format on STV?
Im a Scot get me out of this.
What reallly pissed me off about the Scotland tonight programme was the cutaway from a 20 minute discussion about independence to shipyard job losses yet no mention of the lies in 2014. Fucking infuriating.
Bobp
Maybe but winning 56 Westminster seats, after losing in 2014, which was an extraordinary body blow, to get up from that, and then say, right that’s it, we’re declaring UDI, is too far out there to contemplate, even just 3 years later.
UDI’s for a pretty conservative country like Scotland are just never going to be accepted. Oly UDI scenario that could be carried would have been a YES win in 2014 being ignored by our tory masters. And they clearly were not going to do that, with the Edinburgh agreement.
Rock’s just another yoon prick, endlessly trying to pick fights btle WoS, break up the flow etc.
But he does log off at the same time every night, bath time:D
Apparently one of the powers the Torags want to hang onto is ‘Hazardous Substances Planning’ – i.e. who gets to store Britain’s most radioactive waste…..
another reason to vote YES!
Heedtracker. I suppose I’m thinking that we had the mandate with 56 seats. But as they say, how’s and ever.
@Heed
I’d guess it’s one of Rev’s early RPG prototypes, but he’s having so much fun with it he doesn’t want to switch it off.
Mmm, this looks like fun.
You’re a pro-Indy blogger and Tweeter. You can back David Leask when he says “22 per cent of Scots support second independence referendum in three years as a result of Brexit” or you can look at the actual poll results and say it’s 41% support a second independence referendum in 3 years, with only 47% against. The rest don’t know.
Here’s another one I prepared earlier (10 seconds ago).
You’re a pro-Indy blogger and Tweeter. You had a fundraiser and got overwhelmingly less than £100,000.
You’re a pro-Indy blogger and Tweeter. I’m yer actual kwalyfued journaleast. I am your imperial master bow doen and worship me. Please, pretty please.
I exaggerated unionist style, that was two.
Cameron and Osbourne were going to cut Scottish budget another £7Billion.
They cut it 10%? A year from 2011 now £3Billion less. Total would have been £10Billion .
Nicola, Mr Swinney and the the Westminster MP’s stood their ground. Chicken. Until in a phone call Osbourne capitulated. It must be Cameron love of Scotland express in Indy1. He certainly purred for Scotland. Set the trap. Spends his hols upon Rum. Father in Law’s estate. Swimming in the sea. Playing balls and barbecue pork. Only for the stags. Like you. He was rumoured to be buying an estate in Scotland but he might have not be comfortable, Not enough pigs only sheep. Or some graffiti. Giving advice.
Cammy went off, Bought another pad in Cornwell. Flabby in the sea. Mr Blobby, Strange attire. Plip flops. Digging a hole and lines in the sand. The weather does not matter. Six holidays year. The Chinese and quite generous funding the Hedge Fund. The in laws chip in for fish caught in troubled waters.
Cameron/Osbourne ruined the Oil & Gas sector with too high Tory taxes. The Nairn Alexander LibDem went in with with Osbourne. Raised Oil tax in the 2011 Budget . Up 11% – £2Billion.Up to 80%. When the price fell 75% he was taxing it at 62%. It is now 40% since Jan 2016, 30% + 10% supplementary charge. . Too high. Corporation tax is 20%? on all other industry.Look it up on the UK Gov website. Scotland has lost at least £4Billions year and 120,000 Jobs.over 7 years – £28Billlion+ Fracking in the rest of the UK is tax free. They pay no tax. Decommissioning is tax exempt.
May and her colleagues do not even know how the Barnett Formula work. Thatcher kept it secret. Westminster SNP MP’s have to tell them and explain. Non of the other MP’s know how it works. The Tories try to use it to underfund Scotland. Without the SNP there they would not have a clue. The SNP reps keep an eye to make sure they do not go off with any more. Or cheating Scotland.The other unionists would just let them do it. They haven’t a clue. The civil service in both countries have to try and explain it to them. There are reports the Treasury civil servants have become less informed some must have changed positions.
Cameron even had a better understanding than May. The Barnett Formula. Osbourne took the extra EU Scotland CAPmmoney and left farmers in hard as a rock areas out of pocket. Sheep shearer. Come on rock, don’t be hard. You can’t be grumpy all the time. Lighten up a bit. Your Queen is on your the wall. The sash is washed. You don’t have to worry any more. All prepared for the next soiree. Eh.
If you post you e-mail address will send you all the details. Nice surprise. Not abusive. with some gift tokens. A token of appeciation of your dedication to the site and the cause. .Bet you make a great donation. Two bob or something. No foreign coins. You don’t like foreigners. Or holidays? A nice wee coach trip. To catch up. In the net. All stung up. Bump bump. Change the wheel and the record. Mr Grumpy can be Mr Happy.
@Meg merrilees says: 14 March, 2018 at 9:39 pm:
“Expect a couple of hundred amendments to be tabled before the final hurdle and some attempts at filibustering… they are getting desperate now.”
Ach! Meg, yon gadgies hae been desperate fir years.
Mr Brewdog who wanted Council land at cut price and was complaining about it in the local PJ rag, it was so unfair. Two weeks before a company share sell off that made £Millions. It wasn’t really greedy. They do pay tax. Honour for cash, OBE’s and all that.
The wife is a Millionaire as well. Very nice by all reports. Colouring books, lucrative Art work. No uni fees etc. Does Google St Andrew motif. Independitas? After hands out from the Palace. Servants of the State. Will send the spies out. The next assignment, Are the colouring books red and white. Or a lighter shade of blue. Or just rainbow coloured sales. All out going International.
The BBC weather women wears quite strange outfits, when it used to be watched. A turn off or turn on for some folk.
Interesting article in the Irish Times about the poisoning.
link to irishtimes.com
@heedtracker says: 14 March, 2018 at 11:40 pm:
“But he does log off at the same time every night, bath time:D”
I wouldn’t know. I never read what he posts except someone else is quoting him or, like tonight,(oop! last night), when I read the last line in one of his posts and nearly choked laughing but I’ve no idea what he posted except for that last line.
I expect he wibbled on at me, though, but I skipped past his posts as usual. I don’t scroll past many posters but he is certainly a must miss.
Sectarian tourism can work both ways. The travellers arriving in NI for the shindig on 12th of July is quite a spectacle. Especially the big drummers piling off the coach into the hotels. Tasteful tattoos. If it is bad over here, it should be experience over there. Pallets built ready to get burned. Tyres being recycled but to not save the planet but to contribute to pollution. Set alight and fumes spew off. Shots being fired off for not flying the UJ for a month. Fled in another direction.
Dublin is wonderful except for the heavy traffic. It is true the road does flow through north to south no borders. Motorway built with EU investment. Barbara Streisand once appeared there in concert with a mansion in the background. It rain incessantly. There was trouble in flooded car park. A sea of mud. It held up traffic. Piled up. The Irish folk were just leaving their cars in the main road. A traffic hazard.
The wee town council office were making a profit (was going to say a bomb. Thought better off it!) from tourists parking in a puddled roadside. The double lines were covered up by the rain. Fancy attire and wellie boots arriving late. Plodding though the mud,
There was a new smart tunnel built from the airport, with EU funding. 2? miles long. The Irish did not use it. It cost €2 ,toll so it was empty. Believe it is used more now. The Trams cost 1 euro. They were well used. They go in a direct direction across the City. They were built totally over funded and late. Not as much as the Edinburgh Trams which are a longer more complex, complicated route.
@yesindyref2 says: 15 March, 2018 at 12:48 am:
“Interesting article in the Irish Times about the poisoning.
link to irishtimes.com
I posted a bit about this poison up-thread, or at least I typed it out but got invaded with visitors so may have mucked up posting it.
Towards the end of WWII NAZI Germany were scientifically way ahead of the Allies but were struggling for raw materials as they were being pushed back on all fronts.
They were ahead with the jet engine but Hitler, and I believe Himmler, didn’t like it and they abandoned the project. They were ahead with rocket science with V1 and V2 and they were on the point of a break through with nerve gas. The Atom bomb thing also fell behind when the RAF took out the heavy water plants and the V2 was working well but hampered by strategic 24/7 RAF and USAF bombing raids on the launching sites.
However, after the Armistice there was a race into Germany by the Russia and the Yanks to get their hands on German secrets and weaponry. They both got some stuff. The Yanks got most of the V2 rocket stuff but the USSR got lots too, (not to mention they both got German Scientists). The Russians got most of the atom bomb data and some rocket stuff but the USA already had the Atom bomb stuff.
So the rise to World powers by both the USA and Russia was due to the NAZI war efforts and German Engineering.
Mind you both also benefitted from the United Kingdoms efforts in many other things including RADIO, RADAR, SONAR, Navigational & Direction Finding.
It was only later on when the Russians sent people in to clean up what was thought to be more or less known biological and chemical weapons producing facilities that Russia got the paperwork and equipment for a new type of nerve gas and it was that German science information that saw Russia develop the “novichoks” (newcomers), in the 1970s/80s. They had sung dumb about it being, as they named it being newcomers. And they had developed several such nerve agents as the name is a generic group name.
My point was also that all major powers will have obtained or made small quantities of such agents as that is the only way to make antidotes. You can bet that both the UK and USA have small samples in store.
The reason the NAZIs were developing these nerve agents from cheap and common substances was because, as they were being pushed back into Germany in WWII they didn’t have access to the previous used, and more rare and difficult to obtain, substances used for previous nerve agents. The USSR simply completed the WWII NAZI research and Novichoks is produced much easier, cheaper and from common substances that individually are safe. They are not even on the banned chemicals lists.
Anyway it is a long time ago when I was learning this kind of stuff during courses at such as The Institute of Naval Medicine in Gosport, Porton Down and other, (then), top secret government places. So I may have got the dates and times a bit wrong but not by very much.
link to off-guardian.org
When the Russians talk sense and engage with the verification process, while Theresa May talks drivel and refuses to present her evidence to OPCW, what other conclusion can one reach other than that the UK Govt is merely creating propaganda – and bringing the UK into further disrepute.
Good spot. Leask doing his bit for the crown, as per usual.
It’s a measure of where we are in Britain that you begin to wonder in earnest whether the hysterical and unsubstantiated British accusations over Skripal about are evidence of some bizarre collective British schizophrenia, an artless, feckless, and inarticulate attempt to discredit Russia, or a ruthlessly cunning super-conspiracy which covertly exists inside the UK Establishment, completely undetected, which has resolved to destroy the UK Establishment from within, and it must be said, currently stands very close to the successful and impeccable completion of that objective.
Remember Iraq?? Remember WMD’s that Saddam ‘can use to attack Britain within fifteen minutes’? Except they never existed. Has everybody in Westminster got collective amnesia (including, sadly, some in the SNP who really should get a freaking grip)?
At the time of Iraq their were few who asked questions, but those who did, including Alex Salmond, were shouted down. Now we see MP after MP falling for the same guff, joining in with the Westminster hysteria. Shall we attack Russia?? They would all vote yes. Look, ‘baddies’, get them..etc..etc.
This nonsense about Russia is just hubris of the very worst kind. Yet once again, we have the UK mainstream media literally wetting their pants, as they rush to believe AND REPEAT every word, without critique or question.
Sheep, sheep, sheep. No hard questions. No asking WHY the Russian Government is following agreed international protocol for chemical weapons, but Westminster is not. I watched with utter dismay yesterday as Labour and some SNP MP’s lined up to speak of their unqualified support of this tosh.
Their is quite definitely something quite wrong with Westminster. A kind of unthinking group mentality, and now even the SNP fall for it. Suckers.
Ian Blackford’s coat is on a very shoogly peg. Very disappointed with him. Their is platitudes and ‘playing the game’, and then their is pathetic, unthinking, grovelling subservience.
Great news!
23 russian diplomats expelled , vlad has been sent a strongly worded e mail , and the big one……
The royal family wont be in attendance at the russian world cup.
That will feckin teach them!!!
This is for you, Theresa. Just hand back the Russian donations to the Tory Party of around 1 million euros.
Or is their no limit to Tory hypocrisy .
BTW, Mrs May, can we please see the E V I D E N C E ?
When this has blown over, May will look back and say ‘it was worth it just to keep the nightmare Brexit news out of the headlines’ when Donald Tusk said,
“Sort Ireland’s border issue if you want a transition period after Brexit!”
Otherwise I’m calling a halt to all EU-UK talks until you do”
Robert Peffers,
“I wouldn’t know. I never read what he posts except someone else is quoting him or, like tonight,(oop! last night), when I read the last line in one of his posts and nearly choked laughing but I’ve no idea what he posted except for that last line.
I expect he wibbled on at me, though, but I skipped past his posts as usual. I don’t scroll past many posters but he is certainly a must miss.”
In addition to being an aggressive verbal bully here and almost certainly a nasty person in real life, you are also a liar.
“aggressive verbal bully”
Rock, your command of our language is abysmal.
Have you met Robert Peffers face to face? Has he then verbally bullied you aggressively? I think you probably mean “aggressive literal bully” but you are not educated to a level that can differentiate between “verbal”, ie spoken, and “literal”, ie written.
I suggest you could be an aR$€. Am I being an “aggressive verbal bully” in typing that? Or am I just having an opinion that, obviously, doesn’t concur with your own opinion of your status?
Brian Doonthetoon,
“I suggest you could be an aR$€. Am I being an “aggressive verbal bully” in typing that? Or am I just having an opinion that, obviously, doesn’t concur with your own opinion of your status?”
You are being Robert Peffers’ sycophant.
Does that mean that you ARE going to the WOS get-together in Glanrothes on 7th April, to explain to us “the true way”?
I’ll look forward to it.
This brilliant cartoon of our Scottish political leaders by the Cairns Laddie, in order, are Ruth Davidson, Oor Nic, Johan Lamontable, Willie Snowflake, Alex Salmond and Richard Dufus 😉