Wings Over Scotland

“…someone getting a referendum-related smack in the mouth”

That’s already been done by a unionist supporter who attacked an OAP YES campaigner in Edinburgh.

The more strident and abusive they become, the better. It is indicative of how rattled they are – they wouldn’t be resorting to such blatant attempts to silence dissent if they weren’t worried about the referendum outcome.

Nice work Rev Campbell. You are an excellent reporter.

When the debate has descended to a level where a frequent No tactic is to invoke Godwin’s Law, then Yes pretty much has this in the bag. Demonising Yes campaigners will only serve to further the pro-independance cause.

Somewhat ironic that Jamieson employs Godwin’s Law in his article whilst using the Big Lie tactic or to give it its original term ‘Große Lüge’ – which was first pioneered and used by the Third Reich.

We all know Bill slant of old and it rarely has been pretty.

Is par for the course, very much like Brian Monteith:(all usual health and insurance warnings apply)

link to conservativehome.com

Readers unfamiliar with the referendum debate are probably also unaware that the SNP’s extravagant claims for providing more childcare – given top billing at the launch of the White Paper – have been left in tatters after some investigative work by The Herald political editor Tom Gordon, using FOIs, demonstrated the financial calculations were an invention.

Great article, and so very true. A boy at my school used to get bullied a lot. Until that is, he started to use his intelligence and wit against these bullies. They soon stopped in their tracks as they knew he had the power to verbally ridicule them and show them up as the weak minded buffoons they were…much to the enjoyment of the bystanders.

Keep it up Rev!

Thank goodness for on line news sharing, if we did not have that we would be apathetic or scared out of our wits. Its due to the truth getting through to everyone they’re resorting to making up stories & blatant lying. We have come this far we can do it.
When on line we should remind each other to tone it down.
Thanks for all you have done & still doing
Cathy

I am still in shock at the tirade of abuse from Ian McGill, of Better Together.

He lost the plot during a radio phone-in yesterday and re-christened us cybernats,

“internet bampots…”

Din’t know whether laugh at him or cry at the insult.

Stuff like this is exactly why I am scunnered with the whole thing.

Nothing will stop me from voting Yes but this subject is really starting to bring out the very worst in some people 🙁

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Bill Monroe/Joseph Goebbels

Has anyone been able to access the metadata of the image of the carefully placed single YES sticker? My guess it will show that the image was taken AFTER the lies were found out – ie the image was fabricated in a damage limitation exercise.

Does Jamieson comprehend that he is suggesting that 40% of the Scottish electorate are Nazi`s.

The “Nazi” jibe comes from both left and right so it’s hard to pin down exactly why it has so much traction in the unionist alliance.

It may be down to the example of the United States who have to have a figurehead they can demonize so for the unionists the Scottish independence campaign becomes all about Alex Salmond the wannabe dictator and his henchmen.

It may be from the this country’s obsession with the Second World War even though surviving servicemen are getting few and far between. Anyone who was 18 and in the forces in 1945 is now 87. This obsession with the second world war means a threat to Britain is equated with Nazism by default.

Other independence movements such as Kosovo, South Sudan, Slovenia, Slovakia or the Czech republic were not immediately linked to nazis so there’s probably a lot of Nimbyism at play as well where independence and self-determination are good until it happens in my country.

At its heart it’s political ignorance and stupidity. The political spectrum they can understand runs all the way from A to B. At point A are the establishment parties, B is nazism.

As loyal British nationalists they can’t understand why anyone would want an independent Scotland so the only way they can rationalize it is to assume it’s option B, the work of an organised, fascist minority faction. In other words, Nazis.

I think this piece is bang on the money. There is NOTHING the no campaign want more, than for someone to actually do something stupid in the name of a YES vote. We have the winning arguments, the no campaign is losing, and with each passing day, more and more Scots are realising just how much they have been lied to by London and the poodle ‘Scottish’ media.

We will win, if we keep our heads.

As for those such as Bill Jamieson (who really should know better), relating the democratic and peaceful campaign for Scottish independence to nazism is not just offensive to those who ACTUALLY experienced it, it’s actually very, very immature.

Isn’t the laughingly titled ‘Scotsman’ now just a bad joke on the people of Scotland. Glad to hear their sales have hit the floor.

Having said all that, as we get close to them losing in September, I would not for one second, put it past the London tory funded and run anti independence campaign, to wilfully employ ‘agents provocateurs’ to incite trouble, just as they have done before in Scotland in the 1970’s.

I have no doubts that if they get no reaction from us then we should not be surprised if they decide to manufacture it. Mr Murray caused a stooshy over a wee sticker, let us hope they do not come up with worse.

The sad thing is that the No campaign/MSM know fine well that the SNP are not remotely like the Nazis. Any rational, intelligent person knows this to be the case. The fact that they keep on making the comparison means they are fully aware their campaign is a shambles. Lamont is going off like a rocket again at the moment by the way.

The only nazis in this debate are those clinging vociferously in clutching desperation to post empire red, white and blue.

excellent.

Fear and smear

Divide and conquor

Unionist tactics since the year 1699

Ruth Davidson has just mentioned cybernats abusing people zzzzzzzzzz.

Aye, any better together people reading this. Any a yir pish and you’ll get the good old Yesga Kiss, I’ll stick the sticker oan ye. 🙂

The thing is that we have all been called names, ("Tractor" - Ed)s to Queenie, Britain, the UK – whatever, secessionists, Nazis, Stasi and God knows what else. There are deeply unpleasant blogs and Face Book pages like Alex Salmond is a Wanker where the vitriol is pretty much non-stop. I recall some chap on the Yes Scotland Face Book page saying we all deserved a bullet for our treachery.

Not a word of any of this is reprinted by Roden and Co.

The thing is I couldn’t care less. If one of these people call me a ("Tractor" - Ed) to the UK I think “so what”. I know I will not be able to tick No to the question Should Scotland be an independent country. I know where my loyalties lie and I am totally comfortable with that.

As a joke on the Guardian I said BT stood for Bitter Traitor and made Roden’s Hall of Fame. 🙂 A badge I wear with pride. Of course Roden had to add a lie to the quote and put in a Twitter logo. I don’t have a Twitter account I said it on the Guardian. It is still there to be seen in full context on the ridiculously twee Chris Deerin article.

The reason that Better Together types are so sensitive about name calling is that they are as guilty as sin. They know perfectly well that they are pissing on Scotland to save the Union. That is their choice. I mean that in a caring way obviously and there is more joy in Yes Scotland ranks over one repentant sinner than a 100 righteous men voting Yes. 😉

Cathy McRorie says:

Thank goodness for on line news sharing, if we did not have that we would be apathetic or scared out of our wits. Its due to the truth getting through to everyone they’re resorting to making up stories & blatant lying. We have come this far we can do it.

I just signed a petition to keep internet freedom and democratic, at risk once again.

Here is why Avaaz are asking people to make their voices heard today: ” Right now EU Parliament is voting whether to save or kill the Internet as we know it. The result will be tight, but if we act fast now we can win the votes we need to tip the balance.

The latest draft bill would allow Vodafone, Orange, and other Big Telecom operators to decide who can benefit from fast traffic — while slowing down, or even blocking, everyone else — and make millions out of it! Some political groups have put forward amendments to protect Internet freedom and ensure innovation — but experts say UK Liberal MEPs could break ranks and hand victory to the Big Telecoms”.

It teeters on the edge and this is worrying, though it may already happen anyway.

I think that today Bill Jamieson will have had at least 5 times more readers than usual. Bye, bye Scotsman, won’t be long before the cludgie claims you

I am puzzled by the fact that so much emphasis (by both sides) has been put on Bill Munro’s letter rather than Barrhead Travel publicly disassociating themselves from it on their Facebook page? Surely the fact that they have done so tells its own story?

“Many of you have today given your reaction to the personal opinion of Barrhead Travel’s part-time, non-executive director Bill Munro on Scottish independence.

Whilst we respect Mr Munro’s views, we would like to clarify that this is not the opinion of the company. We believe that it’s for the people of Scotland to decide on the country’s future when they go to the polls in September.”

@Linda’s back

Lamont continues to demonstrate why she and the present labour party are not fit for purpose.

It was a disgraceful misuse of an opportunity to ask pertinent questions regarding the SG policies and plans for an independent Scotland.

But smears and accusations about a hotel bill…well, that’s their level personal abuse. Cant see that resonating with most of the voters.

Mind you the cost of the hotel bill,although interesting, does not concern me too much. Why should our FM have to bunk up in a cheap hotel? I am delighted to see his good work on our behalf abroad drumming up business and raising our profile.

Taxi for Lamont.

Who reads the Scotsman now anyway?
It has turned into a LabServative propaganda paper, and Johnson Press cannot fathom out why it is in sharp decline!

The thing about online campaigners for indy is – as I’ve said before – that everyone in Scotland knows one. They’re folk’s brothers, mums, the guy that organises the weans’ fitbaw, the kindly home help who does a wee bit extra for her clients, the nice SNP councillor who plays the piano at the old people’s Xmas party. This demonisation stuff might work when it’s Romanian gypsies because almost no-one knows a Romanian gypsy but since almost everyone knows an indy campaigner it just doesn’t hold water.

Excellent article. Thank you. I am an old lady and have been tempted almost to the point of violence by their stupidity and those who believe everything they say. I am of an age where it was believed that anything on the BBC and in the press must be “correct”. I think it’s so important that we all get out on the streets and let everyone see we aren’t vindictive cybernats or tartan militia. The more people we can meet face to face, the better; especially those who are indifferent and don’t seek out information on the internet – they are the ones who will vote for the “status quo” i.e. “No”.

I am so feckin annoyed by the Scotsman article, I going to stick a sticker to a window of the Scotsman offices.

Sorry this is OT but after i read about the weir groups intervention(scare story) I thought i would find out who ran the company same old faces, same old network of cronies.
link to weir.co.uk

You know, about 6 months ago all this Nazi stuff being thrown at independence supporters, the Yes campaign and the SNP, would have angered me greatly. My grandfather and great uncle both fought against the Nazis, in the RAF. However, at the present time to be called a Nazi, simply because you support full Scottish self government, is frankly pathetic, and shows that the No campaign have absolutely nothing to offer the people of Scotland. I say we leave them to their bile and hatred. They should not be abused, as this is exactly what they want us to do.

When the ordinary voter is branded a fascist or nazi because he has got the audacity to speak his mind against the establishment or elite, then the word democracy is brought into question.

The internet acts as a medium that allows people of like opinions to co ordinate and share their views and opinions as never before out with the control of the MSM/EBC etc. they are loosing control and they don’t think that is very fair or democratic.

THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE! Hence the establishment want their lies and propaganda pushed out via THEIR MSM/EBC propaganda machine. Any sign of the truth is not to be tolerated.

O/T Rev

but Edinburgh Evening News giving prominence to Ian Murray calling the police about the disgraceful vandalism to his office and having a go at Wings.

Murray / trainee journalist confusing stickers with flyers and Yes with SNP but in the words of Lord Foulkes they are doing it deliberately.

link to edinburghnews.scotsman.com

They are getting so desperate I wouldn’t put it past them doin a wee Reichstag of their own – perhaps covering the Glasgow Council building with nasty, abusive, intimidating Yes stickers?

heedtracker @ 11.34: ‘…the last one is going to hurt the most’.
I’m ashamed to say that Alba will not be the ‘last one’, because that dubious honour will go to us here in CYMRU/Wales – on the whole, we’re such a servile lot, apart from the significant ‘inward migration’ 😉 over the decades. Gibraltar and the Malvinas will be independent before we finally pull up our socks and pull the wool from over our eyes!

Tayside Terrier

I was delighted to see Lord Robertson of Port Ellen
KT, GCMG, HonFRSE, PC on the board of directors/

A member of Her Majesty’s Privy Council, he is Chairman of the Ditchley Foundation and of the Commission on Global Road Safety. He is honorary Professor of Politics at Stirling University, an honorary Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, an Elder Brother of the Corporation of Trinity House and is Chancellor of the Order of St Michael and St George.

I can’t imagine that he would have had anything to do with Weir’s pronouncements on independence.

@mosstrooper

I have been wondering how he, Bill Munro, was able to access the names and addresses of the employees if he is an ex-officio member of the board of Barrhead Travel. What of the Data Protection laws? Perhaps a Winger with more knowledge than I can answer this.

This is indeed a breach of the law as Principle 1 of the D.P.A. has been infringed. Principle 1 states that personal data which is collected can only be used for its original stated purpose. Any unexpected or unjustified use of personal data is against the law as decreed by the Data Protection Act (1994).

The responsible party however is not Bill Munro but Barrhead Travel. Despite their comments distancing themselves from his actions, they are the Data Controller, the party which controls and is responsible for their staff’s personal data. It is their duty to ensure it is only accessible by approved persons and only used in a responsible and legally-compliant manner. They have clearly not done this, so it is actually Barrhed Travel who have broken the law here, and not Mr. Munro.

link to ico.org.uk

The No people twist themselves into knots.

the arguments are:
1) The Yes supporter numbers are very few and dwindling all the time.
2) There is only Alex Salmond and Nicoloa Sturgeon, both hated.
3) All Yes supporters sit in their bedrooms typing, but still put stickers on windows and are going out to carry out a Krystalnacht. Not sure if that means we are going to carry out a pogrom on the Jewish community or the Caledons, whoever they are.

I guess we would need to go out in our ever dwindling numbers, overcome the police force and the army, knock on every door in the land, asking, “Are you a Jewish person or even a Caledon”(?), then hit them with a mouse from the computer and shout abuse at them.

The ‘No’ campaign will stop and nothing to smear and damage the online community. This is what they cannot subjugate. They are control freaks and they are panicking.

Rebutting their smears through facts and humour demonstrates that these commentators and politicians cannot be trusted. They are powerless, floundering oafs.

The more outrageous the claims, the more pompous they are perceived and the less people will trust them.

@John Grant

Thats sad but are you sure the guy wasnt just a Hash dealer?

Not had time to go through this with a fine tooth comb, not only because I don’t own one but because I don’t have the time at the moment.

This is from the Ditchley Foundation on which Lord Robertson is a member.

While in the past the traditional media and politicians had ‘moderated’ or ‘mediated’ information and discourse, both would now reach people in increasingly direct ways, for better or for worse.

Governments might be fearful of all this, and some were already reacting by trying to restrict the new media. But this would prove a vain effort. The internet was an opportunity not only to circulate information much more widely and efficiently but also to hold governments to account in much more effective ways, and to protect individuals’ rights.

link to ditchley.co.uk

Mr Jamieson is either lamentably ignorant of history (which is lazy journalism, as any competent journalist will check facts relevant to a story before publication) or trying to be deliberately misleading (and perhaps inflammatory). Apart from anything else, he seems to view any disagreement, however measured, with a pro-UK view, as an “attack”. Never criticism, never disagreement, always “attacks”.

However, to address the most offensive point of Mr Jamieson’s article, Kristallnacht was an organised (actually very highly organised by the Nazi party) pogrom. There was nothing spontaneous about it. Is Mr Jamieson seriously comparing either pro-independence voters or any political party to the Nazi party? Or is his intention simply to send out the message that most pro-independence internet users are rabid “cybernats”? He seems to have missed the point that an employer “recommending” which way his staff should vote is hardly democratic, aside from the obvious inaccuracies or mistruths in Mr Munro’s ill-considered email. Look at it from the reverse point of view. If one of Mr Munro’s employees had fired off a global email recommending everyone in the company to vote YES, would s/he still have a job?

Come on Mr Jamieson, this is journalism which would be ripped to shreds by any lecturer on any taught course in the UK. It’s badly written, ill thought out, obviously partial, full of assertions with no supporting evidence, and an obvious attempt to stir antagonism. The Scotsman once stood for reporting of the highest order. On this evidence, most amateur bloggers are capable of considerably better. I assume that posts like mine will also be considered to be abusive rants. They’re not, Mr Jamieson – this is, I hope, a well argued criticism of your article. It’s a pity that you can’t manage the same.

The Weir Group directors, yup the impartial Lord Robertson of Nuk’em High and a bunch of financiers from the City, want a NO vote … who wuddathunkit!

Remember the dodgy dossier re Iraq and the ubiquitous BRITISH INTELLIGENCE SERVICES and a certain “gentlman ” John Scarlet in that whole sordid episode. He was promoted I believe after that “successful” operation! There was left a bad smell which still persists.

Well the establishment have some very disturbed people in their gang with some very nasty traits and no conscience, and if that ain’t brutal enough they can get some new ideas from the real crazies in the good ole US of A. These spooks will perform on command of the “establishment”.

Scotland is threatening their power and wealth, that will be defended to the death. The Empire of corruption, lies and deceit will not die quietly, I fear. I hope I am wrong!

Wonder where the MAFIA got its ideas from?

Thank you Votadini.

Now, is there anyone out there who would be able to enquire of the relevant authority if a law has been broken (pace Votadini) and to see what punitive measures can be employed.

Major possible embarrassment for Barrhead Travel and more positive for Yes.

They don’t like it up them you know!

What would be the point in having a ‘Caledonian Kristallnacht’? If we broke all the windows we wouldn’t have any windows to put our vandal stickers on.

@John Grant. 1.13pm.

John, if we vote Yes then I will certainly be getting stoned.

As ever, that’s the nail hit firmly on the head. We must not rise to the bait, however valid we may reason it.

“Work as if you live in the early days of a better Nation”.

But can we still slap an odd sticker on Braehead Travel and Ian Murray’s doors – the prelude to a ‘Caithnesglassnacht?’ Personall I blame the squirrels. Just an aside – just watched FMQ’s on BBC 2 Scotland and I’m so glad Nicki and wee Eck are on my side!

BTL comment from the Scotsman article (start off sounding quite reasonable as well):

I have never voted for any political party in my life such was my disappointment of all political parties. I am closer to mid-century years old.

As a Scot with over 22 years in the Army – I fancy my, and my colleagues, chances of killing off the disease of the hate that is the SNP.”

C’mon you lot stop getting your knickers in a twist. Stu has debunked and ridiculed Jamieson admirably now go forth and spread the word widely about Jamieson’s lack of intellect, wit, morality or whatever .

We are in the middle of a Referendum debate for Independence and you cannot expect it to be ‘nice’. Passions are bound to be high because YES and NO supporters feel strongly about what they want the rsult to be. As far as I’m concerned, within reason the ends justify the means, and I have no qualms about spinning anything I write in favour of a YES vote and will even tell the occasional little lie to help out. I will accuse BnpT supporters of being stupid, lacking commonsense, being anti-Scottish, lying and whatever else and I fully expect that to be reciprocated.

Politicians are well aware that it is all a big game and they will say and do anything to help them win a vote whether for a parliament,Independence or a local council election. It is no good railing against the NO people because it started out with the usually successful classical campaign strategy against change, ie to disparage everything the changers say and do to instill fear of the unknown into the breasts of voters. Unfortunately for the NO campaign they have overdone the fear, smear, sneer claims and its campaign has backfired on them.

The MSM and the thugs they employ as journalists and commentators are an absolute disgrace.
After 2007 when the people of Scotland decided to “put their heads in the noose” and elect an untried Scottish government against all of the hysterics, propaganda, lies, distortions, hand wringing and howling from the assorted media hacks, was the day the MSM in Scotland stood accused and were found guilty of being at the very center of the abusive system they were meant to hold to account.
Since 2007 until around 2011 the MSM in Scotland and Britain as a whole have simply been indulging in self harm. From the SG’s majority victory until before xmas 2014 they have taken leave of their collective senses and have been trashing their own profession. Since the beginning of 2014 we have seen the MSM in Scotland and Britain debase themselves and their profession to a level which defies belief.
The MSM in Scotland terrified because they are being found out and exposed. They are being outmaneuvered by alternative media, outgunned and outnumbered by citizen journalists on the ground and are having their distortions exposed and held up to public scrutiny.
Gone are the days of unbridled power, the power to attack and destroy people without mercy at a whim. People aren’t being fooled by this crap. It’s just too obvious. The only people left with any faith in the MSM in Scotland are the gullible, the uninterested and people who do not want to hear the truth. The MSM in Scotland is now acting in the same manner as the establishment and what we are seeing is nothing less than desperation and fear. Keep up the good work folks!

I’ve long been of the view the Scottish Government should call in observers from the OSCE. But I feel I’m crying into the wind from the other side of the North Sea. A direct appeal was met with a bland assurance that the Edinburgh Agreement ensured a free and fair contest. Is there nothing anyone in Scotland can do to encourage them to act before it’s too late. All the signs of an impending tragedy are there for all to see. Just think what these people did to Ireland, and there’s more at stake for them in Scotland. I was shocked last autumn by the rabid anti-Indepence attitude of an erstwhile friend in Glasgow. It’s like the BT mob are projecting their own dark side onto YES. I fear they will eventually use their own lurid fantasies to justify dreadful actions that can only result in tragedy all round. I hope I’m wrong.

Considering all the decades the Scotsman has failed to alert its readers to the profound imbalance in democracy between Scotland and the rest of the Union, or how it has affected adversely and livelihoods lives down the years, Jamieson has got some cheek.

It was a quiet weekend.

He had to find subject matter for his column. He found a modest story and elevated into a drama.

@mochachoca 2:38 pm

As I said in a previous thread “the establishment has some very disturbed people working for it”
Enough said.

“cloth-witted, tin-eared idiot”

^this

‘we urge readers NOT to lamp Bill Jamieson ‘ could we at least ‘sticker’ him?…Please

Dan Huil

Most certainly. There is one in jail already for threatening violence.

Just for some light relief I’ve watched FMQ’s. I have one question for Johann Lamont, ‘why do you even bother getting out of bed on a Thursday?’

I can not believe that Labour M.S.P,.’s are entirely happy, nae jubilant, at the weekly performance of Lamont. To call her performances lamentable would be to actually give her praise where there is undoubtedly none due.

One thing I did learn today though was that cybernats are bitter old men. I learnt this because that well known zoologist Ruth Davidson said it was so. Who am I to argue with such high level of knowledge concerning the genetical make up of cybernats. I have just one wee question for Ruth. ‘What do you call us women who participate with these bitter old men, are we cybernatettes, cabernatettes, bedroomnatettes,sidewalknatettes,WHAT are we? We want to know!’ 😛

So, not-Rev Stuart, calling contributions ‘demented’, ‘ridiculous lies’, ‘hysterical’, ‘wildly irresponsible’ by a ‘cloth-witted, tin-eared idiot honking such drivel’
is the way to calm the debate?

As I said earlier it is a disgrace that the unionists have slandered Yes supporters in this disgraceful way.

I also pointed out that this is because they have very, very little to offer if we stay on as part of the UK.

Rather than admit to this what they are now doing is… “Oh look a Nazi!”

See me! Ah’m ain o yon Cyber warriors. Wan richt wee Cybernat, so Ah am. Trouble is yon nice Mr Salmond seems tae hae loast ma email address kis Ah never get ony direct instructions frae him fir whit Ah sud post oan-line.
Onyhoo, this is, “The Cybernat Song”,. On YouTube for anyone who has not already downloaded it. This link also has the printed lyrics attached.

link to weegiewarbler.blogspot.co.uk

I would like to know why Jamieson’s devoted service to the Empire has not been properly recognised. Why is he not been awarded at the very least a CBE like the other stellar propagandist Iain McMillan. This latest effort and the cretinous “Caledonian Kristallnacht” quip is surely deserving of a knighthood.

Robert Peffers

Enjoyed the wee song Robert. Congratulations on a fine piece of writing which you posted on the last thread. I share your thoughts re history as taught in Scottish schools.

I had posted a similar piece previously debunking the Shakespeare myth and the plagiarist Charles Darwin.

I am sure in an independent Scotland our schoolchildren will be taught history without the unionist propaganda.

I am at a loss to understand why the snp and the yes campaign keep putting up with this rubbish take them to court sue them for slander and lying claim costs and damages for goodness sake do something they are only able to do and say these things because they are allowed to with up till now no comeback if the snp or the yes campaign will not do it can we not crowd fund it will someone please do something for goodness sake .these people are being given a free run action not words by that I mean legal action Vote yes

OT

Live stream at 7:30pm from Renfrew Town Hall

Jim Sillars, Jeane Freeman & Ivan McKee

link to new.livestream.com

Is just me or has the attacks on the Cybernats picked up a gear this week.

Excellently put Taranaich:

“That’s what this boils down to: they’re afraid an independent Scotland would treat Unionists the way they’ve treated Nationalists. It doesn’t occur to them that we are not like them. That’s the point of independence: we don’t have to do things like Westminster.”

Arbroath 1320
One WEE niggle. I would have thought YES Scotland might have been at the top. Oops…hope that doesn’t hurt. 🙂

Bill Jamieson? Sad old Tory writing in the mistitled Scotsman. Do we really expect balanced comment from such as him on the subject of Scotland’s independence?

Re Lamont’s latest dire performance on today’s FMQs. Nicola filleted her neatly with her final salvo, saying she was not even fit to be leader of the opposition! Ouch!

Alex says:
Is just me or has the attacks on the Cybernats picked up a gear this week?

I think it is probably a combination of factors.

Maybe the BT spin-cycle of limited self-defeating drums-to-beat has come round to the Cybernats slot again.

Also, BT will have found the Wings SPT and Metro pushes very scary, and will be trying to clumsily counter this with Cybernat-smearing.

As the NO campaign goes into meltdown while the YES insurgency rises like a Tsunami, with the correct information getting to more and more people, it looks increasingly important to BT to bad-mouth the sources they can’t control.

It is however ultimately all shoot-yourself-in-the-foot-stuff from BT.

Anti-Cybernat media declarations just bump up the kudos of the Cybernats, get more Cyber-lurkers to get angry and start Cybernattin’ themselves, and make curious undecideds start Googling Cybernat.

So, don’t get mad, get even (on 18th September).

Everybody just keep on Cybernattin’ …

– The good information is

I see Duggie Dug over on Twitter has initiated the regulatory “I’m Spar-stick-us” over this affair at Ian Murray’s office. 😛

o/t I see the hotel thing came up at FMQs,got to say that you won’t get a meeting with the types that can deliver hundreds of jobs if you don’t take rooms at upmarket hotels.The FM wouldn’t even get into their outer office otherwise.It’s about promoting our home nation.

This is a brilliant article and also well-timed in that it’s something I’ve been getting more and more annoyed about in recent days. The bit about bullying is spot on.

Even if there is the odd loon who goes overboard online, it’s also very understandable for the most part. Between the issues raised in this article and the previous one about the historic flows of money out of Scotland, people are angry and rightly so. You simply can’t treat a country the way people are treating Scotland and not expect some kind of backlash…in fact, I’m pretty sure a few words on the internet and stickers on windows would be considered downright tame in many other countries in the face of such provocation! Not that I’m for a minute suggesting that’s the correct way, but the Yes camp has been admirably restrained and indefatiguable under the weight of the attacks it sustains and should be commended for that.

With The Sun now wading into the whole Cybernat issue and the media generally ignoring the atrocious everyday bile and nastiness from commentaries on their own newspaper webpages particularly from BNP and UKIP supporters, it seems to me it’s a ramping up of making Alex Salmond look like an Oswald Mosley-type figure with the Cybernats as his dedicated acolytes.

How does Stickergate, Bill Munro’s bullying and Nigel ‘Bawbag’ compare to an 80-year-old YES campaigner being attacked in the street and having his arm broken because of his belief in seeing his country do better with independence while still alive to witness a monumental change that will benefit his grandchildren?

There is some serious fucked up shit in this country where a cabal of politicians, journalists, businessmen and broadcasters would triumph and gloat over the denial of democracy, debate and freedom of speech to at least 40% of the population because it is a threat to their cosy hegemony.

The only reason for this is down to purely survival, the fear of MPs losing their jobs and gravy train, journalists redundant in the media, businesses and individuals having to deal with a more accountable and just Holyrood instead of a corrupt ‘any price’ Westminster. They will severely damage Scotland to destroy the independence movement, Alex Salmond and the SNP. How far will they go, unbelievably, still remains to be seen. But one thing we can do is to stop buying newspapers, zero, nothing, not one. People who read this website in their tens of thousands can stop buying newspapers in protest, send a message and see if they receive it loud and clear.

The Scottish Sun 248,035 daily circa.

The Scottish Sun Sunday 177,745

Daily Record 216,029

Sunday Mail 243,694

fuck’em all!

They just can’t help themselves! Seriously …all of them …all the bloody Unionists…

Same at the Lib Dem conference.

Clegg talked of a ‘sunshine strategy’

Wee Willie Rennie, also talked of a ‘sunshine strategy’

Same conference. George Lyon …‘Scotland would be forced out of the EU’

So much for sunshine strategy …just like the weather in Scotland. The sunshine appeared for a few hours before disappearing behind that big black cloud that hovers over the Libs these days…

Sorry, I haven’t had time to read all the comments above, I’m just reacting to Rev Stu’s article ATL.

I’m saddened and scared that the “Better Together” campaign is dragging Scottish democracy down to the gutter. Maybe into false flag violence to preserve a broken union.

They have no positive case for the union so they invoke past imperial glories (Let’s celebrate the start of a tragic, bloody war!) and try to scare voters with increasigly silly scarestories.

UK Scottish politicians have free rein to lie and cheat, the Scottish BBC or other MSM will never pull them up on anything. Any SNP representative will be scrutinised and shouted down and their words twisted.

Democracy UK style.

The main reason I hope for a YES vote is that Scotland could become a normal, northern European multi-party PR democracy. Hello! There’s plenty of us here!

Jaysis, if Tsarist Russia had come so heavy on us Finns in the late 19th, early 20th century, we’d never… oh, wait. They did. We didn’t believe their shite and became independent.

Any classical music buff (I’m looking at you, Morag) will know that all Sibelius’s music was inspired by our independence struggle. Elging’s Imperial bombastimentiments are nothing compared to Sibelius’s music. (I cry every time the lonely piccolo flute comes out at “Finlandia”, it’s the message of hope.)

What I find really, really deplorable is elected MPs, MSPs, councillors using their power to create or reinforce divisions in the Scottish society. The only winners are the wormtongues, telling one thing to one audience and another to another audience. (In Alex Salmond’s words, Scot Lab tell one thing in public, and another thing in public…)

Ordinary people lose out if historic divisions are artificially held up in the modern world, but they are, to benefit a political party that bows both ways in their greedy grasp at Westmister power, and thinks their electorate won’t notice it.

I think I’m not too tinfoilyhatty to expect more of these “vandalism” outrages (duly reported by the unionist press). It might not be co-ordinated but the NO side will want to provoke yessers so that they can blame all the bile and wrongs on yessers.

So, to all you yessers: hold… hold… hold… hold…

The “NOW!” should come on Sep 17 at the earliest.

BBC Scotland with John Smith,s daughter Talking about Weir Group again,again,again again! Big Sigh! BBC and Labour together and Glen Thingy all having a go! EVERYTHING IS DOOM AND GLOOM . Less FISH in the sea! It just goes on and on! Be brave vote YES!

Taranaich / Tartanfever:

This is becoming ridiculous. If the polls close even more or if Yes start to show a lead, then I have no doubt that the No camp and it’s friends in the media will stage manage an event to turn the voters against independence.

I heard people say this quietly, and I’ve seen posting about tanks on the streets.

To be honest, guys. It won’t happen, and a for a few good reasons.

1. The Independence debate from the ‘Yes’ side has been done professionally and honourably. None of the sites (such as this one, or others like Bella Caledonia, Newsnet Scotland, etc) have allowed any disturbing or racist comments to appear. There has been no vile vitriol at all. Facebook …well, that’s a different matter, but Facebook is global, and pretty much uncontrollable. We don’t own it, nor can we control or maintain it. Nowt to do with us!

2. There has been no attacks on any persons from either side. To be honest, this is actually fantastic. That’s one good thing both sides can agree on. There has been arguments, bickering and accusations, but no violence of any sort …and long may it stay this way.

3. For Better Together, the last thing they need is the Orange Order, BNP, SDL, EDL or whoever to suddenly begin attacking Nationalists. It will go down very badly right across Scotland. Such attacks might push folk into the ‘Yes’ group as they growl in disgust at what they will see as ‘Neo-British fascist attacks’.

4.There will be no stage managed event to cause disruption. Once again, everyone knows that the ‘Yes’ campaign is non-violent political wing. If they begin winning, why would they go out their way to suddenly cause severe disruption. Many would suspect that it would be a staged event by the other side.

5. There will be no tanks on the streets. Forget Glasgow 1919. At that time, revolution was sweeping Europe. Germany and Russia suffered big ones, and there was a serious chance of a Bolshevik-communist uprising; not just in Glasgow, but throughout the UK. It just began in Glasgow, but was soon suppressed. If anything, the Easter Uprising in Dublin 1916 and the aftermath will halt such thoughts by the establishment. What happened to the Nationalist there (shot, brutally treated in prison) turned the tide for Irish Nationalism. Once the Irish realised how brutal the British were being, the Irish voted for Independence, and got it in 1922. Putting tanks on the streets of Scotland will end the Union instantly. The people of Scotland will scream for Independence. So, tanks will not happen.

I honestly believe that if the ‘Yes’ vote does pass the 50% mark and continues to increase, then I think Westminster will just accept it. They may not like it, and they may whine about it bitterly, but they will accept it. Nothing lasts forever …not even the Union.

@Another Union Dividend@1:13 –
Ah the old ‘Bath based blogger’. Murray has a chug in the bath he could be called the ‘Bath based chugger’

@Taranaich – Scottish Home Rule 1913.

Just read this bit of history from the 1913 Scottish Home Rule Debate in Westminster. See what you make of it.

The language used is very similar to today’s warnings from the English Establishment.

We haven’t moved on, they still think, as they did then, that we are dependant on them to survive,

Also, even in 1913, they were warning us of border posts being set up.

link to archive.spectator.co.uk

Flower of Scotland:
Don’t think that was John Smith’s daughter but some other member of the Smith clan. But anyway she did bang on and on about the report for Weir’s being predicated on transaction charges. How are we going to get BT to understand that we are going to use STERLING after independence one way or another. Are they being 1) stupid 2) obtuse or 3) deliberately lying – I know which one my money would go on and it’s not 1) or 2).

I think the likes of Bill Jamieson know exactly what they’re printing, its a concerted attempt to smear the the SNP and anyone in connection with the YES camp,its much easier to decry someone if you give them a nasty name like Cybernazi or Fascist.

Unfortunately for them, its a negative campaign tactic, especially when the no camp keep reapeating things like there will be no currency union, even though they’ve been caught out lying about the currency union, thankfully the truth can be found on websites such as yours.