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A deal to be done

Posted on March 31, 2014 by

A pretty unequivocal view from Janan Ganesh of the Financial Times, a man who knows a thing or two about how George Osborne’s mind works:

(From yesterday’s Sunday Politics.)

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    84 to “A deal to be done”

    1. annie says:

      Can’t help remembering Dr David Kelly and the hounding he received at the hands of the Government and Press before he tragically took his own life,I really hope they don’t find out who it was who gave the game away.

    2. Doug Daniel says:

      Yeah but Stu, he’s using logic and common sense and all that sort of nonsense, which is basically cheating in the eyes of the No campaign.

    3. wingman 2020 says:

      Of course, the big eared bigot jumped all over him about currency. No bias there then.

    4. Macart says:

      @annie

      I don’t think said minister has a problem there. Its pretty unthinkable that he took the decision to make these statements without the go ahead from higher up the food chain. The very mention of Alistair Darling as the architect of the tactic speaks volumes as does the media tack from the whole weekend. You can bet your boots this was deliberately orchestrated.

      Mr Ganesh of course has stated the ‘bleedin’ obvious’ and repeated that which the Scottish Government has said right from the beginning. Of course to the average punter watching the show it’ll very much be a case of wait what? 😀

      See that wily Sammin, how very dare he state fact and hold position. 🙂

    5. caz-m says:

      “Business Recorder” is a financial website with it’s view on the UK currency union and the implications of different outcomes. Very interesting read.

      http://www.brecorder.com/money-a-banking/198/1166864/

    6. HandandShrimp says:

      The cat amongst the pigeons has forced the unlovely sight of them all having to get together to repeat their love in. Given it was such a turn off for Labour voters last time I can’t say I’m too disappointed to see them come together to repeat their party line.

      The thing is it is so easy to say “Well they would say that wouldn’t they?” Politicians – you can’t trust them and you can’t trust them 🙂

    7. Tonia Wight says:

      Hi Rev,
      The Scottish Borders crowd source fundraising campaign ends in 22 hours and they would like to get 150% of their target. Could you give them another plug please?
      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-future-of-scotland-scottish-borders

    8. seoc says:

      Are we giving too much attention to Westminster?
      Should we focussing more on what improvements and benefits Independence will bring?

    9. Patrick Roden says:

      Tavish Scott slams Labour at the conference.

      A Carmichael says ‘Labour must do more’

      The leak mentions ‘It was all Alistair Darlings idea’

      So can we just call them the ‘Scottish Labour Patsies’ from now on?

    10. Desimond says:

      Danny Alexander has stated on several occasions that there will be NO Currency Union. How many times does such a reliable, credible, steadfast member of parliament have to state this before you believe him?

      Its bad enough you’re doubting Scotlands very own Danny’s word let alone failing to take the Economic giants Ed Balls, George Orborne contributions into consideration.

      You’ll be telling me next that Alistair Darlings words ring hollow!

    11. heedtracker says:

      It just shows how even more stupid the Flipper looks now. He sounded near hysterical with Naughty on bettertogetherBBC R4 news at 8 this morning, “where else is there currency union without political, answer me!!!”

    12. Desimond says:

      @Patrick Roden

      Spotted a copy of Mirror at Stansted Airport today with the headlines “Lib – Lab row causes havoc for NO Camp”

      Which was nice!

    13. Barontorc says:

      The world is gradually waking up to the fact that a disruption is on the cards and you better believe that serious criticism is going to pour down on the body that should have kept the stable gate firmly closed with the horse inside happy and content.

      However, as we well know, the horse is far from happy with its lot and there’s lots of lovely green grass and clover to romp about in. So over the hills and far away is beckoning, leaving the poor stable short of horsepower energy and the oodles of free manure it needs to use in its rapidly shrinking vegetable plot. What was freely taken for granted before is now turning out to be a costly item on the stable shopping list, but then what else do you expect from a stupidly managed stable that’s gone bust?

    14. msean says:

      I have never read the Financial Times,but I’m guessing that where other papers go with their owners’ political leanings,the FT must tell it as it sees it in an unbiased manner.Businessmen in the real world can’t make decisions based on what may be a biased press.

    15. Patrick Roden says:

      Can someone please confirm that this is not a genuine release fron Better Together, on Twitter:
      ?

      BetterTogether ?@NoIn2014 · Mar 9
      Polls suggest that more than 100% of businesses would leave Scotland post-indy, sounding the death knell for the Yes campaign.

      More than 100% of businesses would leave Scotland in the event of a Yes vote?

      The death Knell for the Yes campaign?

      I don’t know about the Yes campaign, but it’s all this is going to be the death knell for me, because I’m on my fourth pair of changed breeks since reading that, and my ticker cannae take much more of this stuff from the BT campaign.

      Who needs currency when you don’t have any businesses?

    16. Jim T says:

      The thing to remember folks is that this was broadcast mainly for an English audience. We have been immersed in the “argument” for some time because our limited media up here have been covering the negative aspects with great glee and joy.

      Our English (& Welsh & NI) cousins have not had the same exposure to or, dare I say interest in, the topic. They are just waking up to the fact that we actually want to run our own affairs.

      Hopefully his short exposé on the situation will have some effect on the consciousness of the Sunday Politics audience (what is the viewing figure breakdown by region?).

    17. Jason F says:

      The whole section with the three guest journalists talking about the referendum and the currency union is interesting.

      Nicolas Watt makes it clear that there would be many components to the negotiations, so it’s not a case of currency union for keeping Trident.

      Also, all three of them ridicule Alistair Carmichael after his interview, particularly his comments on the Yes campaign having more money.

    18. Robert Kerr says:

      I noted that Alex Salmond used the term “currency zone” repeatedly during his TV interview.

      He obviously eschews the term “union” and rightly so.

      To my knowledge I have not heard any comment regarding reciprocal “lack of sovereignty” between iScotland and England since the BoE head honcho brought the matter to attention. It shall work both ways. The tail can wag the dog!

      More money printing or even actual devaluation of Sterling would be a trigger.

    19. Desimond says:

      @Patrick Roden

      Im really confused now….I would have stayed if it was just 100% of business that were leaving but MORE than 100, well that I cant handle.

      Weird thing is, my own company isnt leaving so Im now left wondering if my own company ctually exists, and if it doesnt, what am I doing paying out Corporation Tax all these years?

    20. Gillie says:

      The Yes campaign have Plans A, B, C, D, E ……. on currency options.

      What options do the No camp have for retaining Trident in an independent Scotland?

      On debt, on currency, on trade, on the EU and on Trident the Yes campaign have the whip hand. The No camp have only lies.

    21. CameronB says:

      He obviously eschews the term “union” and rightly so.

      No shit Sherlock.

    22. Jim T says:

      @Patrick Roden 10:24

      there is a spoof twitter account. The clue is in the “proper” twitter address following the “@” symbol.

      The real one is UK_Together. It’s a good one to follow because of the instant put-downs of their utter tripe tweets. The The put-downs can be both informative and entertaining (but not as entertaining and informative as Wings – he hastens to add so as not to offend our revered leader)

    23. Jim T says:

      oops – sorry the “The” key got stuck down again…

    24. HandandShrimp says:

      I’m going to guess that the more than 100% of businesses would leave if it was a Yes vote is a spoof…that or Darling has been at the magic mushrooms.

    25. bookie from he'll says:

      Alistair Darling—–shows up he will always put Union before Scotland,some shocking quotes

      “In manifesto they do not WANT Scotland in currency union”

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/31/alistair-darling-scotland-pound-currency-union

    26. fairiefromtheearth says:

      Annie who told you Doctor David Kelly took his own life? was it the unbiast BBC the ones that never cover up for them ion charge?

    27. alexicon says:

      @Patrick Roden.

      The original story can be found here, if you believe the hype.
      The Telegraph is keen to get back to attacking the YES side.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10733015/Half-of-small-Scottish-businesses-say-independence-would-harm-prospects.html

    28. Gillie says:

      Kevin Maguire writes to the people of Scotland urging them that the UK will miss them if they go

      http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/well-blue-scotland-votes-leave-3303066#ixzz2xX3c6Hp3

      “Dear Scots,

      I’m British first and English second so I hope you don’t mind my public appeal for solidarity.

      Hailing from Tyneside, I’ve always felt a greater affinity with Scots than with the Gin & Tonic set down South. In the Cairngorm Hotel in Aviemore earlier this year I understood why ­Scottish rugby fans went ape after France beat England.

      To support Scotland and whoever plays England is part of the national rivalry within Britain. I enjoyed the ribbing. So I hope you vote to stay with us in September’s seismic referendum.

      Breaking up Britain for a new ­passport and national anthem doesn’t sound like a good idea to me. It’s not much of a return for ­jeopardising jobs, incomes, pensions and social security. Especially when it would be a strange sort of “independence” with Tartan chieftain Alex Salmond begging to remain under the tutelage of the Bank of England in London.

      I understood his thinking behind not adopting the euro yet struggling to retain sterling whiffs of weakness. Wee Eck wants to live in sin after any divorce which, let’s be honest, wouldn’t work for either partner.

      My friends among the 730,000 Scots living in England and Wales don’t want to be turned into migrants. Most are miffed they’re ­disenfranchised when 400,000 English in Scotland have a vote.

      But I want to tell Scottish electors why Lefties and Progressives outside your country really want you to stay. The Balkanisation of Britain would undoubtedly be a dangerous leap into the unknown for Scotland. You might all end up impoverished, blown away by another financial tsunami.

      I share your dislike of David Cameron’s austerity Conservatism. He’s desperate to keep you to avoid going down in history as the Prime Minister who lost Scotland. I’m anxious you stay to avoid lumbering us with Cameron’s Cons for the foreseeable future. Go your own way and 41 Labour seats disappear while the Tories lose only one. Do the Westminster arithmetic and that would’ve awarded Cameron a comfortable Commons majority at the last election.

      I hear lots of arguments about why separation would be bad for ­Scotland. You’ve probably heard them all so I won’t rehearse any today. My argument is going your own way would be a disaster for those of us in what is left of Britain.

      Do you want to put a smile on George Osborne’s face?

      No, me neither. Value solidarity and vote for a better Britain, not opting-out. I believe it’s best to be honest in appealing for support.

      So please, deliver a ‘No’ vote to ­independence.”

      In summary: patronising nonsense.

    29. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Kevin Maguire? Would that be the same guy who warms the sofa on Sky Newspaper reviews, swapping banter with Daily Mail editors?

      Even as a token ‘Lefty’ for hire, whoring himself to Murdoch’s putrid enterprises, he is, of course, entitled to his views on our future – just as we are entitled to tell him to keep his fucking face out of it.

    30. Helena Brown says:

      @Gillie, Patronising nonsense indeed, certainly I want a new passport, I have been told I have an English one, and that from those from Southern Ireland who should know better. Fortunately we want a lot more than that, we want to run our country as WE want it run, not as is today with our laws tacked onto English ones. The Scottish Parliament will there forever straightening out what it has been left. We want a socially inclusive country, not as the English wish. I want a free at source NHS, not privatised, and that is only the start.

    31. CameronB says:

      I’m British first and English second

      Soon to be stateless then. Ha ha. 🙂

    32. CameronB says:

      Or a citizen of a second-class state/nation. Ho ho. 🙂

    33. Training Day says:

      @ Gillie

      Patronising drivel indeed – ‘Tartan chieftain’? – from Kevin Maguire, the ‘socialist’ who receives no doubt a very modest remuneration from Murdoch’s Sky News for his weekly appearance on their paper review slot.

      ‘I hear lots of arguments about why separation would be bad for Scotland’. In your metropolitan ‘socialist’ bubble, Kevin, I bet you do.

    34. bookie from hell says:

      Alistair Darling hits a new low

      Scots will be denied currency union manifesto

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/31/alistair-darling-scotland-pound-currency-union

    35. Dal Riata says:

      @Gillie

      I honestly thought that was a spoof until I checked the link… and, FFS, it’s real!

      The following four paragraphs are just insulting, ignorant and basically, just trolling:

      Breaking up Britain for a new ­passport and national anthem doesn’t sound like a good idea to me. It’s not much of a return for ­jeopardising jobs, incomes, pensions and social security. Especially when it would be a strange sort of “independence” with Tartan chieftain Alex Salmond begging to remain under the tutelage of the Bank of England in London.

      I understood his thinking behind not adopting the euro yet struggling to retain sterling whiffs of weakness. Wee Eck wants to live in sin after any divorce which, let’s be honest, wouldn’t work for either partner.

      My friends among the 730,000 Scots living in England and Wales don’t want to be turned into migrants. Most are miffed they’re ­disenfranchised when 400,000 English in Scotland have a vote.

      But I want to tell Scottish electors why Lefties and Progressives outside your country really want you to stay. The Balkanisation of Britain would undoubtedly be a dangerous leap into the unknown for Scotland. You might all end up impoverished, blown away by another financial tsunami.

      Utterly gormless, patronising, clueless pish of the first order.

      Way to go, the UK’s MSM, way to go!

      Every time one of these numptie journalists [sic] produces trash like this it merely highlights the ‘them’ and ‘us’ attitude of the Britnat. It also makes Scottish independence more of an inevitability than it already is.

    36. CameronB says:

      Or a citizen of a second-class state/nation. Ho ho. 🙂

      Correction:

      Or a subject of the Crown of a second-class state/nation. Ho ho.

    37. Desimond says:

      Kevin Maguire, more establishment than Socialist going by that drivel.

      How long before we see someone wearing a T-Shirt that says

      “Im a Socialist but….”

    38. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      Don’t forget about the Treasury source reported in The Guardian. This is equally as damaging considering that Osborne claimed is was advice for The Treasury that made the three amigos make the statement on no currency union.

      Obviously the Treasury are getting panicy. Nothing to do with us. We were only obeying instructions from Darling, he said. Interesting. A Labour party back bencher!

    39. bunter says:

      O/T

      There is a copy of a memo doing the rounds from the head of Barrhead Travel, to their staff, dated 24th Feb, suggesting that the Scot Gov are liars and suggesting that independence would be a bad idea.

      Has anyone else seen this and is it genuine?

      Sorry I cant link it here as not too clued up with this kind of stuff.

    40. Tattie-bogle says:

      Looks like they are prepairing the average viewer down south for the Tsunami

    41. James123 says:

      Kevin Maguire was on the Sky News paper review the other week, he was discussing an article regarding the referendum and said “once the sound of the bagpipes has died down the Scots will see sense and vote no”.

      Thats about all you need to know about the guy.

    42. Desimond says:

      @bookie from hell

      Wow, there is so much play to be had in that Darling piece.

      From the crying out for a caption competition photo of Alistair to the total dismissal of Northern Ireland and Wales with talk of a “need a referendum in England”. Cringetastic.

      The Manifesto promises..these will be like Lib Dems tuition fees I presume or wee Ruths ‘Line in the Sand’ threat.

    43. bunter says:

      The Barrhead Travel memo is on ”The Full Independence For Scotland” facebook site by the way. Still shocked at it!

    44. Desimond says:

      @bookie from hell

      Scariest line in that Darling piece in the Guardian si when he talks about any currency union decisions not involving him…

      “I would be in Scotland by this stage.”

      So much for us thinking he would be heading to The Lords!

    45. proudscot says:

      The Kevin Maguire “open letter” posted by Gillie, is a load of sanctimonious sentimental twaddle! His real underlying unionist dislike of Alex Salmond and our aspirations for independence, surface in his comments about the FM being the “Tartan chieftain”, “wee Eck”, and the “Balkanisation of Britain”, etc. Best ignored.

      On another topic, I see Quisling Cochrane is once more at his vituperative best in his latest Torygraph diatribe, where he describes the CU whistleblower’s undermining of Gideon/Balls/Booker, as an act of “stinking treachery”! Best get your blood pressure checked Cochers – or maybe not …

    46. Desimond says:

      Last mention of that Guardian Darling piece…I believe this comment from a Unionist highlights exactly why THEY just dont get it…


      The SNP (inc Scot Nationalists) and UKIP both share the same nationalist conservative (small c) wet dream and the sooner people look at the real world and stop blaming Brussels/Westminster for things largely under their own control the better.

    47. Les Wilson says:

      Just thoughts on the Financial markets, I find it strange that Sterling and indeed the US Dollar are still in big demand. When you consider these are 2 of the most indebted countries on earth.
      You would think that if the debt was shrinking THEN the currencies would rise. However the opposite seems true, that hardly makes sense.

      Unless, traders are pushing up the currencies due too them having large currency bets on them.You can see then that it is fundamentally in THEIR interests. Yes, both economies are improving which is always hyped, but debt repayment is the end issue no matter how traders manipulate the currencies.One is tied to each other. The currencies can be manipulated, the debt less so.

      In the end, and there will be an end, as both currencies are in real terms, worthless because of QE and the untenable debt levels, which seem uncontrollable. Eventually disaster beckons, where then does Scotland stand? If we join a CU, I do see the advantages, however risks of doing so are never discussed, this is an issue that needs much examination before we entered one.

      Traders and big Financial Institutions, Blackrock for example are well integrated in London, and as such their views are hardly likely to be unbiased.
      Scotland should not just jump in,the downsides need to be really thought through,and with real expert brains looking at things from a negative viewpoint, not just the positive.

      Otherwise I see problems for the UK and by association, Scotland. We need to look after our own welfare first and foremost, we can be magnanimous later.

    48. CameronB says:

      Desimond
      Tempting though that is, I won’t respond to that in my usual fashion. 🙂

    49. Mary Bruce says:

      That Barrhead Travel email is a disgrace.

      I have a pile of their brochures at home, I will be returning them this week once I have stuck some yes stickers all over them and will be informing them that I will never again be dealing with them.

    50. Proadge says:

      O/T but excellent

      ‘Post-imperial Britain is a very strange, very damaged place…’

      http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/adam-ramsay/scotland-isnt-different-its-britain-thats-bizarre

    51. James123 says:

      I bit the bullet and watched the whole segment on the iplayer. A couple of things annoyed me, firstly Andrew Neil referred to the Yes campaign as “the Nationalists” every time but never referred to the No campaign as the Unionists.

      Secondly the Guardian journalist spoke about the money the Yes campaign had received from the lottery winners but went on to say that the No campaign had been very careful about who they were taking money from. Have they? He means apart from all the money they have gladly received form individuals who donate to the Tory party.

    52. Desimond says:

      Are Labour fiddling while Union burns?

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26808371

      I am amazed when the Referendum never gets mentioned in respect to Unionist party discussing their plans for the next few years. Dont they comprehend that come Septemeber, everything changes?

      Denial.. the strongest drug in the world.

    53. Lee Rogers says:

      I hope some of Barrhead’s staff have the balls to spread the true facts; the boss obviously is completely out of touch, or more likely another scared, lying unionist; maybe both.

    54. CameronB says:

      Remember, the Corporation of the City of London has an elected MP (for the Westminster constituency itself) representing the Corporation of the City of London in Westminster.

      The Corporation of the City of London enjoys a unique voting sytem within the democratic isles of Britain. Workers nominated by the largest employers are eligible to vote even if they do not live in the constituancy, and security of tenure is in the gift of the Corporation (i.e. the Corporation decides on who lives in the Corporation of the City of London constituency).

      Simples. ;(

    55. Taranaich says:

      @fairiefromtheearth: Annie who told you Doctor David Kelly took his own life? was it the unbiast BBC the ones that never cover up for them ion charge?

      While I enjoy conspiracy theories as thought experiments, there are very few that I have concerns about in terms of actuality: Dr. Kelly’s death is one of them. It isn’t so much that I’m convinced he was “taken care of,” it’s just that there are very clearly a LOT of things that don’t make a lick of sense, and it’s clear we’re not being told the whole story.

    56. alexicon says:

      Barrhead travel is definitely off my travel agents list for my holidays this year and all the holidays after that.

      Looks like Alistair Darling has landed in more hot water.

      http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/scottish-independence/57926/second-referendum-what-have-you-done-now-darling

    57. Fiona says:

      @ronald alexander mcdonald
      Don’t forget about the Treasury source reported in The Guardian. This is equally as damaging considering that Osborne claimed is was advice for The Treasury that made the three amigos make the statement on no currency union.

      ^This

      I am surprised that has not been more widely commented on. To me it is one of the most damning things of the whole episode

      Publishing Treasury advice is an unusual thing to do and it appeared to give weight and impartiality to the decision (not as much as it would have before the revolving door politicisation of the civil service, to be sure: but some even now. I wondered about it at the time and was sure that what was published was written in the knowledge that it would be published, and might not be the advice, the whole advice and nothing but the advice. That now appears to have been a reasonable suspicion and the mendacity of at least Osborne and perhaps the rest of them is plain to see

      What is certainly true is that this was a very major lie and that the civil service is not going to be the fall guy: Darling is. But that is not fair because this was Osborne’s lie whatever the origin of the policy

    58. Onwards says:

      @Gillie
      That Kevin Maguire piece really is awful.

      Basically an appeal for Scots to vote NO to save us from ourselves.
      And to put our aspirations on hold to remain as labour voting fodder.

      I will DEFINITELY be voting for a better Britain!

    59. CameronB says:

      Taranaich
      There a good few retired medical/surgical professional who are so concerned that they have raised a series of privately/crowd-funded legal actions to re-open an investigation.

      I think it was the blue Tories that have finally put a stop to that sort of nonsense.

      Can’t have possible murders investigated properly now, can we? Eh?

      Vote YES

    60. Edward says:

      It appears that Barrhead Travel are , what’s been described as a Ratner moment. Barrhead Travels Facebook page is filling up with complaints.
      https://www.facebook.com/barrhead.travel

      Its interesting that the owner and main shareholder Bill Munro, a millionaire has taken the inane step of sending out that e-mail. Clearly his political head got the better of his business head, as he has clearly ignored the statements made by Willie Walsh of BA as well as Ryanair that Independence would be good as it would see the stupid APD being reduced and finally got rid off and thereby attracting more travel business. Which the last time I looked was what Barrhead Travel were into

      It will be interesting to see if Bill Munro issues any statement

    61. FlimFlamMan says:

      @caz-m

      From the Business Recorder site:

      The long list of risks makes it all the more puzzling why sterling has been unaffected by the approach of the vote so far. That may be understandable for a spot market trained on short time frames, but there’s been barely a flicker in the implied future volatility surrounding September.

      Maybe the lack of concern in currency markets is because those market participants have a better understanding of currencies than the journalists at the Business Recorder.

      The article’s long list of problems the rUK would face after Scottish independence are, again, problems it would face id there was a currency union; a proper one where rUK gave up its currency sovereignty. If there is no union, or a union in name only where Westminster retains control, those problems don’t apply.

      @Les Wilson

      Just thoughts on the Financial markets, I find it strange that Sterling and indeed the US Dollar are still in big demand. When you consider these are 2 of the most indebted countries on earth.

      Again, it all makes perfect sense if you look at the way modern currencies function.

      Do the US and UK run large – compared to other countries – deficits and debt levels?

      Yes, but since they are both sovereign currency issuers neither one can be forced to default. They both are the sole issuer of the very thing in which their ‘debt’ is denominated. With no default risk these two nations pay whatever bond yields they allow, not what the markets demand.

      That’s why US and UK bond yields – the interest paid on government debt – remained low after the 2008 crash, whereas Euro periphery yields went way up. The Eurozone nations gave up their currency sovereignty; they no longer issue the currency in which their debt is denominated so unlike the US and UK they face a genuine default risk. For those nations which were running external deficits that risk became imminent since they needed to issue debt to finance those deficits. Euro yields went up until the actual currency issuer, the ECB, stepped in. Currency sovereignty is vital.

      Currency value is more complicated, but default risk plays a part, along with the state of the overall economy, both its current output and its potential. Loss of Scotland’s exports, and general GDP would be a factor for the rUK here, but so would reduced expenditure. Sterling’s value would likely fall but there’s no mechanism there for a crash, unless market participants fail to understand all this.

      Do market participants understand this? Clearly some do, probably most. They targeted the Euro periphery – no currency control and external deficits – but not Germany – no currency control but external surplus – and not the US or UK – large external deficits but with currency control. They also targeted the UK when it joined the ERM – a partial loss of currency control – but stopped once it left. With full currency sovereignty restored there was no longer anything to target.

      The big problem is that after Scottish independence Westminster will be full of neoliberals hell bent on austerity for most people and subsidies for their chums in the financial sector. Wait, isn’t that already true?

    62. CameronB says:

      FlimFlamMan
      A someone who appears knowledgeable about these sorts of things and to also have developed almost instant ‘credibility’ here, any comment you’d wish to share concerning the Corporation of the City of London.

    63. annie says:

      fariefromtheearth,taranaich, I had originally typed apparent suicide then thought,I don’t want to be labelled a conspiracy theorist (apologies to all conspiracy theorists reading this).

    64. CameronB says:

      ….and security of tenure is in the gift of the Corporation (i.e. the Corporation decides on who lives in the Corporation of the City of London constituency).

      Simples. ;(

      This sort of nonsense continues to be a major problem in the developing world, such as Pakistan, leading to a democratic deficit that kills millions.

      Just saying

      Vote YES

    65. CameronB says:

      annie
      Stick to what you can or has already been proven. Simples. 🙂

      Otherwise it is only your opinion. 😉

    66. CameronB says:

      That’s what British Labour are……….Corporate Colonilists

      Grrrrrrr.

    67. CameronB says:

      They don’t do it with rope, they use the RTPI.

      Much easier. 🙂

    68. CameronB says:

      The RTPI is predominantly Fabian in membership and outlook. The Fabians scared the bejeebers out of George Orwell.

      Just saying

      Vote YES

    69. CameronB says:

      The RTPI has directed British development since 1947.

      Just saying.

      Vote YES

    70. CameronB says:

      Robert Kerr
      Got any comment on the RTPI? 🙂

    71. Taranaich says:

      @annie: fariefromtheearth,taranaich, I had originally typed apparent suicide then thought,I don’t want to be labelled a conspiracy theorist (apologies to all conspiracy theorists reading this).

      Wings has something of a reputation for being a conspiracy theorist website, so you were probably right to be cautious. But there’s a spectrum of conspiracies: you don’t have to be a swivel-eyed Icke acolyte (Ickeolyte?) to recognize a lot of secret dealings happen. After all, it isn’t as if conspiracies have never taken place (Chemical experiments in St. Louis, intentional infection of black Americans with syphilis, the Lusitania, Enron, Bojinka, De Beers, etc).

      To paraphrase Rev, the only thing more tiresome than a conspiracy theorist is a conspiracy denier. 😛

    72. FlimFlamMan says:

      CameronB

      …and to also have developed almost instant ‘credibility’ here…

      Aaaahahahaha, oh damn that’s a good one. Thank you for that.

      Okay, I’ve composed myself a little. The Corporation is part of the reality of the UK, and that reality is that the UK is in many ways not a modern nation state. The feudal structures that remain in place protect the wealthy and privileged, and the Corporation is part of that, but it’s probably* no worse than the rest of our ancient structures and practices.

      It’s also probably no worse than the anglo-american, or norman-american, financial sector in general, wherever it is based. Most of what the financial sector does is worse than useless, based to a great extent on fraud, extracting wealth from the productive economy, and causing periodic crashes.

      * The Corporation isn’t my area of expertise, assuming I have any such area.

    73. Jim T says:

      Looks like Bully Munro, of Barrhead Travel fame, has a few other travel interests, and I always find links like this one http://companycheck.co.uk/director/900091405 useful in such research.

    74. CameronB says:

      FlimFlamMan
      You have the look of a historian, would that be the case? Did you see the report I posted explaining the linkage between parliamentary activity and economic development (13oatcate – 18Peterloo)?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo (Massacre)

    75. CameronB says:

      P.S. I hope you so my explanation of what has been behind my recent conduct. I wonder if Carl von Clausewitz would have approved? 🙂

    76. FlimFlamMan says:

      No historian, just a poor dumb coder/layabout who spent a lot of time in the US, was planning on setting up a business there, lost a bunch of money in the crash, and wanted to know why. Beyond my own ineptness that is. So I set about educating myself on economic theory.

      I didn’t read the report, I know about Peterloo though. Ties in to the UK’s non-modern and shady nature.

    77. CameronB says:

      FlimFlamMan
      I wasn’t posting the link for you. 😉

    78. John D aka Nkosi says:

      Annie:

      I have scrolled down and missed all the other posts. Do you really think Dr Kelly committed suicide? Because I don’t!!!

    79. Iain More says:

      The southerners still don get it. With a Yes vote in the Indy Referendum the political and economic power that they think they have will be gone as we will have taken it back. Economic an political power will flow out of London for the first time in over 300 years. Think about it. They will have nothing to negotiate and bargain with.

    80. bunter says:

      Just watchin news 24 and had to rewind the bit about the Davis Cup match as I thought it had Italy v England, and I was not mistaken it effing does. they are trying to wind us up for sure!

    81. bunter says:

      Owen Jones to be on paper review BBC news 24 @ 10.30. With any luck he may expand on his article in the Guardian regards the bullying and anti democratic NO campaign.



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