Situations vacant
It’s okay, folks, we’ve got this all worked out.
Angela Eagle isn’t happy in the Labour Party and the Tories need a new leader. STV News Edinburgh may have jumped the gun slightly this evening, but this alternative career path makes a lot of sense.
Labour of course has numerous shadow cabinet vacancies at the moment. So in the spirit of national unity, if Eagle is going to cross the floor in one direction then maybe someone should cross the other way to help Jeremy Corbyn out. But who?
Corbyn’s had to use an MP from an English seat as both shadow Scottish Secretary and shadow Northern Ireland secretary, which is less than ideal. It’d obviously be better if the Scottish post was filled by a politician who actually lives in Scotland, and as luck would have it someone who’s just handed in their notice is heading north:
Cameron may be perfect for shadow Scottish Secretary, but someone who wanted his job has had to cope with disappointment and is now at a bit of a loose end. Happily an obvious senior post has just become available, well suited to a top-level Eurosceptic like him. So step forward, the new leader of UKIP – Boris Johnson!
Johnson leading UKIP will of course frustrate the ambitions of UKIP’s heroic Scottish chieftain David Coburn, and as the party disintegrates north of the border he may be looking to pastures new. So the openly gay MEP will cheer up at the news that there’s an opening for a Labour equalities spokesman.
But where will Coburn’s former boss go? Well, with Chris Evans walking away from Top Gear today, Farage is a far closer match in style and tone for the flagship show’s previous kingpin Jeremy Clarkson, and given that he holds the record for Question Time appearances we definitely know that the BBC have his phone number:
But there’s no need for Evans to feel glum – he won’t be signing on for long. As it happens we know another employer that’s headhunting at the moment, with a long track record of paying clownish characters vastly inflated wages for terrible results:
So with the England manager job going to the carrot-topped japester, we just need to find something for Roy Hodgson to do with his time. We hear he wants to stay in football, and fortunately a high-profile position is looking for a new occupant right now:
The main qualification for playing Kingsley, of course, is to have a foam-rubber face and the ability to crack an unnatural, false smile capable of terrifying children and opposing players alike. Can Hodgson pull it off?
AIEEEEEE! The job’s yours! Just please don’t hurt us!
Did any of them say ‘We don’t do walking away’ ?
Chuckle…
Can’t see much of a turnout at the next election whenever that is.
Stu’s finally lost it, I think its the pressure.
Ooh, yirra naffie man, Rev!
8=)
We need more of this sharp lampooning. Very entertaining. 🙂
In the nearly three years I have been reading this site this has to be one of your finest posts Mr Campbell.
FUNNY!FUNNY!FUNNY!
But also all so depressingly true!
What on earth is happening in this country.
I´ve had acid flashbacks that have made more sense!
They are really all after the Kingsley job,aren’t they? 🙂
Jings what happened to the poor bloke that used to be Kingsley i think thats important as well is he our new PM?
On the top gear thing good he is an arse the rest of the show is actually quite good except for the bits he is in plus its a bit strange that the real star of the show Matt plays second fiddle to a twat most people dont like.
So Dave wants to come and live in his Scotland region guess who will be the first person audited by the new independant Scottish tax office.
Its funny because it’s true. Hows about C-3P0, he’s got that annoying tory whine, Gideon Osborne style. R2-D2’s booked up for a while. Was going to suggest Ewan Macgregor but even R2-D2’s a better actor.
Brilliant!
Now just as long as you’re not about to leave us in the lurch, I think we’ll survive whatever repositioning occurs in this mad house ?
This is all fine, but after 10 days, wouldn’t it be great to have an article on the Brexot fiasco on the UK economy.
Just sayin’
[…] … head over to Wings Over Scotland for some great comedy pictures (link to wingsoverscotland.com) […]
Dave and Sam just want to stay in the EU. A couple of years and they will qualify, like the rest of us, for shiny new Scottish passports with their citizenship of the EU intact.
Clever move. But they had better hurry up so they can vote YES in IndyRef2.
ScotConservatives ?@ScotTories 1h1 hour ago
The state of Scotland’s education sysytem isn’t the EU’s fault, it’s the SNP which is responsible, says @ProfTomkins #Scotlanddebate
Titter ye not. This is a Glasgow uni top top man and his grapplerising with Engwish. To be fair, he’s not that great at Slovenian either.
Prof Tomkinski knows how to wipe the grin off my face. Why the right of residence of everyone that’s come to Scotland to live and work, is now in the gift of a few toryboy arseholes like this one, is hard to take
Toryboy scumbags got barely 25% of the UK electorate, even less in Scotland and yet our democracy, that invited all the peoples of Europe to come here, farts out semi-literate goons like this and Gove to threaten them. Ref 2 come on.
Adam Tomkins MSP Retweeted
Nicky Morgan ?@NickyMorgan01 9h9 hours ago
EU citizens already here must have the right to remain. @Gove2016 will make sure this happens. #Gove2016
How many spare bedrooms in that mansion of dave’s that he is eying up ?
Should have a thatcher style guinea pig trial of the bedroom supertax, only in Scotland mind, in fact, only in huge big fuck off mansions owned by posh boy ex prime ministers called David Cameron.
Now, how much to charge..hmm…suggestions ?
After a load of shite in EBC, Scotland Branch Office discussion and ITV’s dreadful Brexit Implications where the presenter never left Little England I opened this Wings post and Rev you fair cheered me up this evening. Let’s have more of this to keep our spirits up.
Auld Rock
The British Establishment has been rocked to its foundations as never before.
In a couple of months, it will re-group and consolidate its position again.
In my view, calling an independence referendum early last week immediately after Nicola’s visit to Brussels, while all our opponents were in turmoil and the EU’s eyes were on us would have been the perfect move.
I think we have missed the perfect opportunity.
I think we have missed the perfect opportunity.
OK sensibleRock. See you back on Tatooine. May the farce be with you.
I think the SNP is doing well in the face of almost the totality of UK media.
So if someone persists in spreading alarm and despondency I would just call them a troll.
There were so many lies in the air in that debate that only some could have been rebutted by the LONELY panellist. Lies like Scotland gets charity via Barnett ,not getting our own money back.Lies like only a minority in Scotland voted REMAIN, non voters and the dead and dying arenevercountedin an election! Lies like it is only democratic that Scotland is out voted every UK wideelection.
If Alex Rowley gets his marching orders from Dugdale, he might just qualify.
link to caltonjock.com
Cruel.
But fair.
Heedtracker: OK SensibleRock. See you back on Tatooine. May the farce be with you.
😆
After a hellish day decided to see what’s going on today where we are.
Soooo glad I did! About to hit ma pit with a smile on my face.
Thanks Rev.
To be honest I dunno what’s going on at the moment or what to think.
It’s not surprising though when all political parties are in turmoil they’ve done a blanket shut down of any decent SNP voice right across the whole media. They must be scared of someone showing leadership qualities.
I think if there is an indyref2 and it goes no again the whole SNP should just all walk out of both parliaments and tell everyone “fuvk if we tried”
A much more accurate summation than the ever more repellent tory BBC led propaganda
link to facebook.com
My brain hurts.
So from the beginning…
I am resigned to my fate
Kevin: “To be honest I dunno what’s going on at the moment or what to think.”
I’m content to know the people who count all warned Brexit would mean Scotland left the UK parliament’s stranglehold, and it will prosper as a member of the European Union.
Everything else that happens down in the pig swill that is Westminster is, well, an English issue.
Let us not forget, English votes for English catastrophes.
@Heed
Thanks for that, I love Christolph as an actor. Watched him last night in Inglorious Basterds, again!
Can’t not watch that film, when it’s on.
BTW, Max Keiser foretold the rats would all be gone, but within the year.
The whole world is laughing about Brexit, but now they must be laughing worse at people electing this calibre of weapons grade shit, to public office.
Aw fer fuck saky, why did Nicola no call Indy Ref2 before the 1st vote wiz cast,oh hud that thought why did she no caw it 3 weeks before last Friday when the postal votes were gon in.
Noo thats the way to do it Ya Fekin Troll ,fekin amature.
Grouse Beater @ 11.51.
Couldn’t agree more.
My English daughter-in-law arrived the day after the vote for a family birthday party and had still not calmed down after her anger on FB in the morning.
My son also had an outburst on FB saying it was time to go home and campaign for Scottish Independence which my daughter-in-law confirmed he means.
There may well be many ex-pats in England who feel the same.
We will welcome all to the cause.
UK red herring warning for Sturgeon. 🙂
link to archive.is
Hark the Herald headline stories.
———————————————————–
We want our party back, say Labour MPs, as Watson makes last-ditch effort to avoid civil war
link to archive.is
Theresa May have it.
link to archive.is
Sober up! Chilcot on Wednesday. Let’s hope Corbyn survives that long.
Watched the fabled “debate” (once I managed to find it in the labyrinthine BBC schedules) but what a fiasco that was. The audience did their best to field questions but then Glen Campbell moved on without anyone answering them.
As a format it is well past its sell by date. Fiona Hyslop did well I thought, in spite of the impossible odds.
Regards jobs, is anyone in wastemonster bothered that many people have no job. With no choice, they are driven to zero hours, temp zero contracts with no (workers) rights. If they are treated like shit they can’t leave, because they will not find another job and will most certainly not be helped by the state.
My brother who is in his early 60s, and not in good health is in a zero hours job, on call, weekdays and weekends. He wants to work, but I am absolutely livid that he is being used and treated like a slave with no life due to being at their beck and call. He looks exhausted.
UK is backward, those in power, on massive wages, and expenses, paid for by the people, are taking the absolute piss out of population. Why people in places like NE england thought that leaving the EU would help their situation I will never know. This god awful disunited UKok is a disgrace, and surely in the eyes of many in the EU, a sham. A sham government in westminster, led by sham gits, who fcuk off when they have already just shat on the floor, and there is no one to clean it up.
Why the people put up with it is perplexing. Scotland doesn’t need to put up with the incompetent, uncaring, dangerous WM unionists, greedy, self seeking turds. We need out soon. Sorry the sweary words, but just sick to the back teeth with this horrendous backward union, their political and media pals who control what happens and destroy lives.
Mystic Meg or is it Nostradamus tonight? That aside it is probably the most honest thing to appear on STV in a long time. My ribs are in total agony.
Boris to UKIP leaves a Tory Party vacancy for Chilcot.
Perfect.
This point might be a wee bit off-topic, but, on reflection, this is probably as good a thread on which to raise it as any.
I would, in particular, like to read the learned Mr Peffers’ views on this:
Back in June, 1953 HM the Queen was crowned Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, her realms and teritories overseas etc…
(OK Robert – we know and accept your lecture on the three kingdoms of England etc).
So, what happens after we win Indyref2 and Scotland again becomes independent? We will have one monarch reigning over a Unitd Kingdom which is not actually united, because Scotland and the three kingdoms of England, Northern ireland and Wales, are separate nations.
I apprciate, many on the Independence side would rather we became a republic once we are independent, but, now in my seventh decade, I have rather grown used to having the Queen on the throne, ruling with the permission of myself and the rest of the sovereign people of Scotland. I might add, given what he has done for my home village and the surrounding area since taking over Dumfries House, I am a big fan of the Duke of Rothesay, the Heir to the Throne.
So, once the present Queen dies – does the independent Kingdom of Scotland simply send a representative to London for the coronation of her successor, as monarch of the Unitd Kingdom of two separate self-governing nations, or, do we bring him north for his coronation as King of Scots?
I rather fancy the latter option – now having our own coronation would, I believe, really piss-off the little Englanders.
Ronnie: Noo thats the way to do it Ya Fekin Troll ,fekin amature.
:lol::lol::lol:
Who doesn’t love to see a circle squared, eh?
Links
link to yescotland.com
Nicola Sturgeon will hold talks with leading business groups today on the importance of Scotland’s place in the EU.
link to archive.is
Meant to post this before. Oil firms dead against indy, no need to wonder why.
link to exaronews.com
Discussion on brexit francetv Alyn Smith on the panel
medias.france24.com/en/vod/2016/07/02/TK034623-A-01-20160629.mp4 …
Discussion on brexit francetv Alyn Smith on the panel
link is here, hope it works
link to twitter.com
Rock@10:21pm
…weesht man, weesht!
Links
Tony Blair decided to invade Iraq before telling public but was ‘looking for a reason to do it’, says Admiral Lord West
link to archive.is
link to thecanary.co
Mischon de reya are the firm of lawyers attempting to stop Brexit on behalf of their clients?
link to spiked-online.com
meanwhile
Mishcon De Reya Corruption Uncovered and Conspiracy to DeFraud! byCorruption Uncovered A breaking scandal…
link to fb.me
Links
You will be able to download a copy of the Iraq enquiry report here…
link to iraqinquiry.org.uk
link to usuncut.com
Activists storm US military base in Yorkshire
link to archive.is
French presidential frontrunner Alain Juppé calls to end Le Touquet agreement and place border with UK on British soil
link to archive.is
Tory propaganda BBC r4 style this morning. Bojo loves Teresa who’s kind and nice. Teresa wants 4 new Tridents, they’re vital. The toryboy leader contender says he’s never wanted to cure gay people of gayness you see and he wants to scrap Osborne austerity.
We have not missed the perfect opportunity for independence. It is being created for us daily. It is being created economically by the forces and pressures which will inebitably build up as a result of Brexit and which we see each day on the news.
Time is not our enemy,but our friend. No general will launch an attack until they have their units in place.
The building blocks are being put in place slowly but surely. Nicola ,like any good commander is waiting for the time sufficient reports indicate beyond doubt that England is drowning but dragging us down with her. Then she will act.
It is no use telling people something is going to happen.Often they have to experience it for themselves before awareness takes place.
Socrates,
I rather fancy having an ’empty throne monarchy’ by appointing a guardian.
The guardian could be appointed or elected and have the ceremonial head of state, meet and greet role, reporting to parliament and with only very limited political powers ie. Appointing or heading a caretaker government in the event of government collapse until an election is arranged.
Basically, a sort of super-diplomatic role. Not dissimilar to the role of the Governor-General in Australia in some respects.
Much of the debate in Australia, prior to their monarchy referendum, centred around presidents having too much power and the idea that only a person with substantial monetary backing and a good tv-persona would be electable. I felt that their keeping the Queen was more to do with these issues than loving the Queen.
At the risk of sounding like I spend my life at the movies, when you step back from the crazy UK meltdown, the most poignant image which it calls to mind is the scene from the Lord of the Rings, where Theodin dresses into battle armour and ponders the mere survival of his people against impossible odds, and asks himself searching questions, and ultimately, “How did it come to this?”
Tremendous wee bit of cinema, but poignant to our own here and now, as I have said.
Back in the real world, there is a massive change in the air. Westminster is in turmoil, it can barely find its own leader, and in all quarters, pretenders to the throne are fighting amongst themselves with neither grace nor integrity. And what lies ahead but the challenge of juggling Brexit chainsaws? A leaderless Westminster begats a leaderless Better Together. It is beyond salvage for a fractured United Kingdom to credibly unite in common purpose to obstruct a disciplined and resolute European Scotland. Unionism might reform, indeed it must happen, but we Scots can surely recognize a Toom Tabard autocracy and its questionable authority.
The slumbering European ogre we couldn’t summon to our aid back in 2014 has been wakened by a slap to it’s face by Brexit. It has awoken angry and defensive, and keen to gather its loyal chicks in close. It will look after us.
The “dilemma” wee Scotland can suffer upon NATO? Would that be the same NATO of war hawks biting their nails to the quick about Chilcot? The NATO currently sending troops through our European airspace to stick two fingers up at the Russians? It isn’t Estonia that smoulders, this NATO-RUSSO fire was set alight in Syria by Neoliberal foreign policy. Take your nukes with you when you go. Or sit back and watch us dismantle them. See? We’re reasonable people and would give you a choice.
And what of our domestic Union jack clad thuglets? Those Queen fans who like their night at the opera? Those now synominous with the “British disease” purged out of our Europe with CS gas.
So what remains of that resolute and dastardly campaign to suppress and distort our democratic coming of age in 2014? Why only the resolute and bastardly BBC.
Nana says:
5 July, 2016 at 8:08 am
Discussion on brexit francetv Alyn Smith on the panel
link is here, hope it works
link to twitter.com
Ruby replies
Thanks Nana. That worked.
Interesting discussion spoiled by the buffoon Coburn.
@Rock says: 10:21 pm
“In my view, calling an independence referendum early last week immediately after Nicola’s visit to Brussels, I think we have missed the perfect opportunity.”
Aye she should have called referendum headquarters on the red phone and given the order “release the ballot papers!”. We would already be independent, Vince in Hull would be happy and the Rev could retire
Nana says:
“Discussion on brexit francetv Alyn Smith on the panel
link to twitter.com ”
Thanks for that. Well worth watching.
UKIP really are the pits!
George was a naughty boy
link to archive.is
@Ruby I should have put ‘spoiler alert’ after the link lol
A few more links
‘We must move the border back to where it belongs’
link to archive.is
link to scottishfinancialnews.com
link to usuncut.com
Behind the scenes the independence bill is bein drafted. It takes time! Possibly a couple of months. We have time as article 50 will not be triggered until at least November. Teresa May was quite clear that it would be towards the end of the year.
When it is triggered people will re-focus and remember that we are actually being dragged out against our will. That’s the time to pull the trigger on the referendum. That’s when it will hit home. Just now we are in a kind of soup waiting for something to happen.
The bill can be put through Holyrood , debated and agreed within 2 weeks. Then it’s off to WM to grant Edinburgh agreement. The whole process can be done by December and the date can be the nd of April if necessery. Don’t forget we have council elections in May so it will have to be before that. If it’s after that then we could be back to autumn 2017. That might be tight as it would be a full 8 months after article 50 is triggered. Only leaving 14 months to leave the UK and stay in the EU.
Things will have to move at pace after article 50 is triggered!
@Ruby@Nana
Thanks for the links to the Brexit France talk
That David Coburn brings out the desire to maim, what an awful creature of a man
Good to see expressions of support from the other participants for Alyn Smith
They are all determined to bring about their own demise and ruin the economy. Raising even less money and sanctioning and killing vulnerable people at home at home and abroad. There really is something wrong with the English education system where wealthy people, usually inherited buy up 1st Class’s Degrees from Oxford University which is subsidised 200 to 1 of other education institutions by public money. A self perpetuating political feeder that eats itself, everyone else and destroys the economy.
Angles Eagle will fail but will ruin the economy further. She is a Tory. She should resign like all the rest of the Unionist Politicans in Westminster, Many of whom should not be there. Electoral fraud. An illegal, non representational Establishment. They are being funded by millionaires trying to buy up political privilege with their tax evaded gains. The illegal killer Blair is funding a campaign against Corbyn. 29+ Tory were elected under electoral fraud. The Westminister is illegitimate. The EU Referendumis flawed. Taking place under electoral fraud. They should all resign and stand for re – election There will be a General Election.
Farague the crook, who has been embezzling funds for years, should be in jail. He has resigned as leader of UKIP. UKIP is bankrupt. All the millionaire backers trying to buy up political favour, to tax evade, have withdrew their their support at the GE. Faradge/ UKIP failed to win the seats for they were paying Arron Banks has removed funding from Faradge to support Leadsom (Thatcher 2) after the fraudulent EU election. The result of which will ruin the UK economy.
Westminster Unionists and Osbourne – are ruining the Scottish economy since before 2010 and before 1928. Universal suffrage, Coming out of the EU will ruin the UK economy, There will be the same number of people in Britain because British people will not be allowed to live and work or study in the EU. The economy will tank because there will be no direct access to the single market but tax barriers.
Migrants are coming to Europe from the Middle East because the UK, US (France) have been illegally bombing the Middle East to bits for years and taking their resources (Oil). Destroying and not rebuilding their economy with their natural resources. This will continue until Westminster Unionist stop it and the affective countries can rebuild their economies. It has nothing to do with EU membership, but US/US and French foreign policy. The UK and US (France) have been supporting, arming and aiding illegitimate apartheid States and absolute, despot Monarchy fir years with misspent taxpayers money. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. Keeping it secret under the Official Secrets Act. Committing the worse crime under international Law. Knowingly, lying to take a country into war, killing, sanctioning and starving innocent people and ruining the world economy. Causing more destructive havoc and killing and starving innocent people. Using the Gov controlled Non Dom tax evading MSM and the Official a Secrets Act to cover it up.
The U.K. Economy will rank because of Westminster rank policies of supporting tax evasion by the wealthy, buying up political favours and starving the vulnerable to death.The economy needs well educated migrant workers. There is not enough skilled workers in Britain because of the English education system where the wealthy buy up degrees supported by public money. The UK Gov starves the vulnerable and essential services of essential public funding.
The 15% corporation tax will make things worse. It will give even more money to the wealthy tax evaders and grotesque expensive projects no one wants and less funding to essential services. Making matters worse. Osbourne already does not collect enough funding for his expensive spending habits. Osbourne is a useless fraud. Along with his associate Cameron who lies and deludes the people. .
Whoever appointed Tomkins to Edinburgh University, to trough on Scottish taxpayers money needs their head examined. The illegally elected (electoral fraud) 2nd rate reject Tories are ruining
the Scottish economy. Tomkins is economic with the truth. He supports Ian Duncan Smith’s benefit ‘reforms’ which illegally sanctions and starved the vulnerable to death. Ian Duncan Smith resigned because of the illegal, illegitimate ‘benefit’ reforms, which did not work. Tompkins wants to replace the Tory non impartial Monarchy. He is a member of the Tory.The Tory Party swears alliance to the Queen. Another one who doesn’t know what their Party stands for or anything about Scottish Law, history, culture or society. Another unelected 2nd rate reject who should resign. Elected under a Unionist imposed flawed non tepresentative, undemocrstic electoral system. In order to control and thwart the wishes of the people.
Cameron is using his ill gotten gains of his family’s tax evasion, and fraudulent misuse of public money and Gov funds, to buy up an estate in Scotland. In order to further tax evade? For his retirement. Just like Blair/Brown who illegally killed innocent vulnerable people for their ill gotten, tax avoided gain, There is no inheritance tax on land in the UK in order to protect farms
and food and feed the people. Is that why he remortgaged his London property, days before the illegal EU Referendum? His family had an estate near Huntly There is a statue to his Uncle who was killed in the 1WW? Killed by his inbred Royal cousins. Along with millions of other innocent European people. C’est la vie. Things change but everything stays the same, The non impartial Tory Royals engage in illegal wars causing death and destruction. Ruining the European economy.
Most of the UK politicians should be in jail for illegally breaking the Scottish/UK/EU and International Law and killing vulnerable people for their ill gotten, tax evaded gain. They are deplorable.
They sooner Scotland is Independent (within the protection of the EU ) the better. The Unionist Parties of ‘psychopathic bastards’, their description, have taken over. They should hang their heads in shame for their manipulation and lies funded by tax evading greedy Millionaires and Non Doms who can’t get enough and illegally misuse public funds. They are absolutely beyond redemption. They will reap what they sow.
The sooner Scotland votes for Independence (within EU protection) and protects the Scottish economy and the vulnerable the better. Westminster/Unionists from elsewhere have undemocratic ally blocked it for too many years. Westminster secret and lies, burying their crimes under the Official secrets Act.
The Chilcot Report will call Blair and his associates out. It will sanction and punish them. It might deter the other war criminals and crooks in the Westminster Parliament who are still illegally bombing and starving innocent people. Do they never learn. Just repeating the same mistakes over and over.
Socrates Macsporran, the current Queen Elizabeth 1 of Scots underwent a sort of Coronation in Scotland in 1953 , although it’s called the United Kingdom it’s two separate crowns but Robert will be able to confirm.
So Chuck the 3rd will have his coronation in Scotland, probably the last one although personally I prefer the idea of an elected Monarchy with a fixed term of five years and a maximum of two terms.
Keeps everybody happy 🙂
I cannot believe some of the comments from Ukippers and British Nationalists today about the EU all over the place
The first place this group always go to is “we won a war” somewhere sometime in the past so we can beat up Johnny Foreigner again
These Brexit Britnats are dangerous nutcases
This is not going to end well or comfortably, already in England the BNP and the EDL are marching around frightening people, and politicians comdemning it thinking that’s their hands clean when they’re the ones who caused it, isn’t good enough
The leaders of the Leave campaign have all left each other now.
Gove left Boris to become PM, against all his (Gove’s) previous (insincere) statements; Boris left Leave to head for the wilderness, since he wasn’t allowed to ‘achieve the dream’, which was simply to become PM; nice Mr. Farage left UKIP to ‘get his life back’, financed by remaining a non-practising MEP for as long as he possibly can (talk about not doing a proper job, or not doing a job properly!).
But all three of these leading Brexiteers still have one thing in common: they are the collective perpetrators of a giant fraud. Each and every one of them should be prosecuted.
They all agree now that their headline figure – we will save 350 million GBP going down the drain to Europe every week (and 100 million of it will henceforth be spent on the health service instead) was a barefaced lie. Not a mistake, which might be genuine, but a lie. Admitted. Without shame. Now that the campaign is over.
If I were to obtain money or propery or rights from you by deliberately lying, promising you things that are not true and which I know very well will never materialise, it’s fraud.
Would I not get prosecuted for doing that?
So, what about them?
I don’t see why it’s not fraud when politicians do the same thing. The Leave campaign stole the votes of gullible people by deliberately misleading them. By their own admission …
Since the referendum was won by fraudsters, carrying out a giant con on the general public, why can’t they be prosecuted for it? Because, in a democracy, as we discovered in Orkney, lying is OK. Or, at least, ‘a democracy like ours’ …
At the very least, the result of the referendum should be declared null and void. Why is no one at Westminster saying that? It would be perfectly feasible to do so.
Everyone knows the English people have never been sovereign in England. And never will be. It’s ‘the Queen in parliament’, which is sovereign – which effectrively means, in our day, the parliament.
So why doesn’t some MP for an English constituency get up and state the plain fact that English MPs are not bound by the result? And why doesn’t that same MP propose that a result so fraudulently obtained should never be acted upon?
If some English MP did have the guts to come out and say that, he would quickly become the most popular politician in England. Over 60% of the English population would now back him.
With Labour and the Tories both much the same, and both split on this issue, it could even be the beginning of a new alignment among (non-SNP) MPs.
An alignment which could eventually become a new party.
That new party could simply call itself (for the time being, at least) the ‘ReMaIn Party’. A pro-EU Party, something the English electorate were never given. Though we have had one up here for decades, in the shape of the SNP. England needs a ‘Responsible Mainline In’ Party (ReMaIn, for short).
If I was English, or just living in England, I would vote ReMaIn at the next GE.
Even in the present make-up of Westminster, such a ReMaIn Alignment (or Party) could combine with the SNP and others (Plaid, and so on) to block any triggering of Clause 50. Thereby saving England from its own most ill-informed elements, and also from some of its most reprehensible. Preventing our southern neighbour from being carried into confusion by the racist, xenophobic minority which the Leave campaign cultivated, and relied upon, to carry the day and win for it its hollow and empty victory.
Such a ‘re-alignment’ would also differentiate sincere and responsible ‘remain politicians’ from the opportunists who simply saw the referendum as a way to advance their own careers. And still do, as the Tory leadership contest amply demonstrates.
How can anyone in the Tory ranks who came out for ‘remain’ during the referendum want to have any part in a government that will implement ‘leave’?
How can a ‘remain’ proponent put their name forward, ten days after the result, to become the PM who will ensure that the UK leaves Euope? And such a person is going to ask us to believe in her, or him? When they clearly have no convictions at all?
It beggars belief.
The SNP at Westminster are bound to vote against any triggering of Clause 50, because the people of Scotland ARE sovereign; their wishes in the matter are clear, and their representatives are bound to represent them. That’s the contract.
MPs for English constituencies are not in the same situation at all. Because, in England, the parliament is sovereign there, not the people. So MPs for English constituencies are required and expected to exercise their own personal judgement on this matter, as on every other. The only considertion is what they think is best for the country.
The ‘ReMaIn Alignment’ MPs and the SNP MPs could and would both vote the same way: against triggering Clause 50. Each of the two groups would do so on the basis of two different sets of principles. But each would be acting quite correctly from within their own constitutional point of view. That is, within the constitutional assumptions on which they were elected by the people.
(This happens because the English constitution and the Scottish constitution – the two sets of constitutional assumptions which have always underlain, and which still do underlie the two polities that form the UK – are in fact substantially different, one from another. Which does not prevent Scottish and English MPs from combining with each other, as in the way described above, in a manner whereby each group remains faithful to its own specific principles and assumptions.)
If the SNP proposed or fostered such ideas they would no doubt be howled down by Leave supporters, and accused of trying to dominate England. But it would still be in the SNP’s best interests to do this.
And it would be completely consistent with their main aim here, which is to keep Scotland in the EU. The best way to do that is to keep England in the EU as well. And the whole of the UK.
The simplest and easiest way to retain Scottish membership of the EU is to prevent Brexit.
And it would be perfectly legal to do this. There is no legal necessity whatsoever for the Westminster parliament to act on the result of the June 23rd referendum.
Why should it do so, if a sufficient number of MPs judge that leaving the EU is not in the best interests of the UK?
The SNP has always wanted Scotland to be independent in Europe (for the past 30 or 40 years, at least). But it also, quite rightly, wants England and the rest of the UK to be in Europe along with Scotland, when Scotland does become independent.
That will ensure that there are no barriers against trade or the movement of people between Scotland and our southern neighbours. Which is good for everyone.
With all of the entities of the former UK in the EU, the border with England would remain as open (and unpoliced) as it is now. Something which is undoubtedly to the advantage of all of us, Scots and English alike, and everyone else as well.
Nicola Strurgeon was absolutely sincere when she said she did not want independence to come as a result of England (and Wales) voring to leave the EU. She really did not want our southern neighbours to vote ‘Leave’. Her campiagn for ‘Remain’ was not intended for Scotland only, but for the whole of the UK.
The ‘Leave’ vote in England is not in our interests, even if it does inadvertently lead to our having to achieve independence faster and sooner than the SNP envisaged. Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP leadership have always been aware of this. She knew the ‘Leave’ vote could happen, and was ready for it. She also knows that, whatever the new opportunities vis-a-vis independence, the anti-EU vote gives her more trouble, and a bigger headache, than a ‘Remain’ result ever would have done.
Nicola is no short-term opportunist (and neither is the SNP as a Party). Her chief aim is lasting and fruitful independence, which is something different from ‘independence at all costs’, or ‘no matter how’. This is long-term thinking, seeking to ensure that Scotland obtains independence in ‘the best possible way’ and ‘with the best possible results’. It is about the good of the Scottish population. Together with the whole of the SNP, she wants an independent Scotland to be able to maximise its possibilities and opportunities.
Scottish independence is also for the good of the world, which includes all our immediate neighbours. Something that is detrimental to England – as Brexit will be – is not a thing to be welcomed or fostered. Rather, it should be avoided, or circumvented, if at all possible.
I am certain Nicola Sturgeon took no pleasure in the Leave result in England, and expect she was as disturbed as any of us at some of the dark forces in English society that were unleashed to obtain it. We have no right to be complacent in this regard: similar forces exist here too, often with a specifically Scottish twist to them. Contrary to some of the media hype, they lie mainly if not entirely on the Unionsit side of the political divide. That does not exonerate those of us who identify as pro-independence. These forces will still exist after Scotland is independent, and legitimate ways will have to be found to defuse them or win them over, so that they never gain political influence here.
Like most of us, Nicola Sturgeon wants England and Scotland to be the best of friends – and the best of trading partners – after independence. And the way to ensure that is to keep England in the EU.
Since she is now exploring every way to keep Scotland in Europe, she must be considering moves that would stop Westminster from the folly of the course on which its main players have embarked, even those that campaigned for ‘Remain’. Since there are perfectly legal ways to avoid implementing the Leave vote, these ought to be examined, and pursued in the most reasonable and responsible ways available.
Scotland could do not only herself but also her southern neighbour a very big favour in this regard. England needs someone to save her from herself, and from her own worst excesses.
Maybe we, as Scots, even have a duty towards her in that regard. A great country like England should not be at the mercy of some of the darker forces that the campaign unleashed in favour of Leave. If fulfilling that duty leads to opprobrium being poured down upon us, so be it. We should not be happy to see madness take over anywhere in the world, and we should do what we can to prevent it.
As for the Big 3 Leaders of Leave – chancers every one of them, but worse than chancers – fraudsters.
There should be a way to prosecute them.
Just as there should be a way to declare the referndum result they so dubiously obtained invalid – as all frauds are.
The dictionary I have to hand defines ‘fraud’ in its first meaning as i) (in common usage): ‘deceit, trickery, cheating’ and ii) (in law): ‘intentional deception to cause a person to give up property or some lawful right’.
That would surely include hiding from people, especially the poorer sections of society, the fact that they are going to lose a lot of their human rights if we exit Europe, including in the field of employment.
Among the secondary meanings we find ‘constructive fraud’, which is a legal term. This is descibed as an ‘act or contract which, though not originating in any actual evil or fraudulent design, has a tendency to deceive or mislead other persons, to violate public or private confidence, or to impair or injure the public interests.’
With regard to the referendum, that sounds like an open and shut case to me. Among the synonyms the dictionary gives for ‘fraud’ we find ‘swindling’, ‘treachery’ and ‘treason’. Even that … perhaps!
Couldn’t someone raise an action against the leaders of the Leave campaign? Or is misleading voters and injuring the public interest all perefctly OK? Is this what modern democracies – or at least ‘democracies like ours’ – made of? … Deceit, trickery, lies … The forces of darkness … Unleashed for you … !
From Twitter
link to listener.co.nz
“Scots are finding the European Union less claustrophobic than the British one. It’s the difference between sharing a flat with your mates and being in bed with an elephant.”
O/T
Some excellent articles in the National yesterday highlighting issues that you’ll never come across in the paper press, hear about on STV and the BBC of course such as …
‘Junior Medics choosing Scotland after Strikes …. Massive rise in foundation level doctors applying North of the Border following disputes in England.’
You wont hear a peep either about Better Together Westminster continuing to make a concerted effort to depopulate Scotland, particularly in the Highlands and Islands, through for example their immigration and economic policies. Their latest ‘project’, that is extending the submarine range off our west Highland coast, is going to cost jobs and will no doubt see people moving away from the area: And of course as we all know the ‘sub situation’ is blocking getting access to our oil off the West coast. I wonder what Rooth the Mooth has to say about that?
……………………………………
MSP slams MOD for ‘ill informed ban …. Local prawn industry could lose £600,000 a year.’
AN MSP has written to the Ministry of Defence (MoD) blasting their “distant and ill-informed” decision to extend submarine ranges off Scotland’s west Highland coast – amid warnings that the local prawn fishing industry could see earnings plummet by as much as 20 per cent……
The restrictions, which were signed into effect with a recent byelaw, will result in fishing vessels being banned from operating in a sea area ten times the size of the city of London…….
The MoD has written off a potentially devastating £600,000 in lost earnings to the local industry as insignificant – mere small change.
“But in actual fact, we’re talking about people’s entire way of life – their livelihood based around a vital local industry…..”
link to thenational.scot
…………………………………………
‘Letters II: Scots fishermen are in denial about who killed off their industry’
”……… Today, fish stocks are recovering to healthy levels, but only thanks to EU intervention. Had the Scottish fleet been allowed to continue as it was the end-game would have been the same for the fleet, but there would have been no fish stocks today and no recovery. Many fishing families fished ethically, but if fishermen – especially those from that era who are blaming the EU while waving a Union Jack – need to point the finger at anyone for the tragic demise of the industry and our communities, then I suggest they take a good long look in the mirror.”
link to thenational.scot
………………………………………
‘George Kerevan: Let’s make sure the numbers are right when indyref2 comes.’
”To secure a majority for Scottish independence, the second time around, we need to find convincing answers to a number of questions. And find those answers in the next 30 months or so, before we are dragged out of the EU against Scotland’s wishes. Let me lay out the areas where we need to put forward bold solutions. Note: I’m not offering definitive answers here – that’s beyond my pay grade – merely ring-fencing where research has to be focused……
Assuming keeping sterling is off the agenda, we need an alternative. Even if we wanted to, joining the Euro would be a long-term project because we would have to align our economy and exchange rate with the Eurozone’s, and that would take years. Which leaves us with creating our own Scottish pound (or whatever name you fancy). To avoid disruption to trade, contracts and pensions we would likely need to set the exchange rate at parity with the rUK pound sterling, at least for a period. Ultimately, of course, a Scottish currency gives us the flexibility to devalue to boost exports and productivity.
The issue for immediate consideration is the mechanics of creating a new currency quickly. That’s not impossible: the Baltic States did it expeditiously after they declared independence from the old Soviet Union in 1991. And Scotland is better supplied with the banking expertise to create the necessary new financial institutions. But if we go down this road, we can’t wait till the Saltire is run up over Edinburgh Castle before designing those institutions: a central bank, (probably) a currency board, and financial regulators ……
….. Incidentally, much of the Nordic nations investment in capital projects that improve competitiveness comes from the jointly-owned Nordic Investment Bank (NIB). The NIB offers long-term loans and guarantees on competitive market terms to its clients in the private and public sectors. It raises funds by borrowing on the international capital markets and NIB bonds enjoy the highest credit rating. Thought: an independent Scotland should apply to join the NIB…….”
link to thenational.scot
………………………………………
Declaration of Arbroath to become a Unesco ‘Memory of the World’
‘This document’s influence stretches much further than medieval Britain.’
link to thenational.scot
………………………………
Hothersall of The National. If this isn’t one of our Dunc’s wind ups, its really nice of The National to give a red tory yoon a chance to air his UKOK SNP bad views because they have so little forums to get their stuff out there and at us.
Or, The National takes the piss once again.
Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 11h
Duncan Hothersall Retweeted Kyle J.M. Walker
I bet that’s the bloody picture they’d use again an’ all. The one day during #indyref my husband didn’t dress me…
@socrates Macsporran 07:13
I suppose it all depends on what form independence takes. If we seceed from the UK, then an independent country of Scotland will remain part of a United Kingdom (no debt, no assets). However, if we repeal the act of union with the Kingdom of England, then we become the Kingdom of Scotland, which means no United Kingdom.(We’ll take our share of debt and share of assets).
Personally, I’d go for repeal and become the Kingdom of Scotland. Which would mean we have our own coronation, our own king. I would feel uncomfortable about sharing our monarch with another kingdom. I mean, look how well it all worked out last time!
When I say Kingdom of Scotland, it could more correctly be called the Kingdom of the Scots, since we as the people of Scotland are sovereign. (Thank you Declaration of Arbroath!)Our King should be one of us!
Who would be our King, or Queen? I would suggest we look to history for a possible answer. From the Irish/Scots side any male desceneded from a previous monarch could be eligable to become king, but from our Pictish side it was often preferred to be descened through the female line. Google “tanistry” for more information.
Taking these principles, we could have thousands, possibly many thousands, of people who could have a claim to the throne. Surely we can find one person from this who could and would become a good monarch for Scotland. Someone who would fight for us, our land, our ways, our culture, our kingdom.
Take the best of the past, make the best of the future. … without losing who we are and what we are.
We are Scots and THIS is OUR kingdom.
@Lenny Hartley
Hmm! Charles next king.
Not sure if this all stacks up but I’m sure someone was on here over a year ago saying that Charles 111 (going back a bit) did exist as an off shoot in the lineage Dunkeld and St Peters come into the story.
So It’s a problem if true, especially if you go for Charles IV as you have to explain where was Charles III.
He’s going for George VII for his royal name rumours have it to tidy up the mess.
Prince: Charles Philip Arthur George:
Historians and conspiracy theorists put us right!
I tried to refresh my memory this morning and came up with this.
link to englishmonarchs.co.uk
Quiet day so far init … EH! 🙂
The UK State has failed. The Unionist politicians have failed and are ruining the British/NI economy. The majority in Britain/NI want to stay in the EU. Scotland must stay in the EU and become Independent to protect the Scottish economic and political society which does have a different culture and outlook from the rest of the UK/NI.
@Petra
“Declaration of Arbroath to become a Unesco ‘Memory of the World’
‘This document’s influence stretches much further than medieval Britain.’”
Heard a bit about that on radio jockland by Brian Taylor. He mentioned the ‘100’ and the statement of Scotland being independent but studiously ignored what may be the most important part of the document – the sovereignty of the Scottish people.
galamcennalath @9.57.
Thanks for the link to the Liam McIlvanney article. I’m sure his old dad would have been proud.
He was a Big Man and much missed.
If all those Labour shadow cabinet ministers who have resigned didn’t believe that Corbyn was up to the job.
Then why did they accept a shadow cabinet post from him in the first place?
And if they are so principled as they would have us believe why don’t they all resign their seats and stand fro re-election in by-elections.
ITV/YouGov poll – support for Welsh independence within the EU (excluding Don’t Knows):
Yes: 35%
No: 65%
thats up by a factor of 3
looks like our welsh cousins are changing direction
’bout time too
@ X Sticks Lord Turnbull saw a example of Sovereign Scots, when he posed the question ( who are the sovereign Scots) 84 hands went up & more in the corridor that could,nt get a seat in court.
Chilcot Report, 2,600,000 words
War and Peace is 600,000,
Bible is 800,000,
cost of Chilcot £12,000,000
price of hard copy £767 each,
under Maxwellisation persons who are to be criticised in an official report can respond prior to publication, based on details of the criticism received in advance,
so every one criticised in Chilcot will already know what it says about them and will have had the ability to contest and remove criticism prior to publication.
1981: Nigel Farage’s public school express concern over his singing of fascist songs. But conclude “a fascist, but that is no reason why he would not make a good prefect”.
link to scribd.com
I’d prefer to look at the Republic of Ireland for a post independence solution for our head of state. Their presidents have little power and election campaigns don’t cost the earth. Not all presidents have the same role; it depends on the political set up and we would inherit a similar type to Ireland. They simply replaced the figurehead monarchy with a president.
Once elected, Irish presidents have a term of 7 years. I can’t remember if there is any restriction on how many terms they can serve, although I know De Valera was president for a long time. Maybe we should also note their more recent presidents have been excellent and recognised worldwide, Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese in particular.
Thanks KOF (10.03 am) for the reminder that the correct title is Kingdom of the Scots. William Wallace used this terminology in his letter to Lubeck merchants and this was before the Declaration of Arbroath.
cearc
Guardian of Scotland: was that not the title Sir William Wallace held? Nothing against the idea, but the history of the job isn’t good. I don’t see the 21st century English hanging, drawing and quartering the holder of the position, but, they wouldn’t like it.
Lenny Hartley:
I remember, as a young lad, watching that “coronation” ceremony on TV back in 1953. HM, in a black coat and a wee hat, wandered into the Assembly Rooms, was presented with the Honours of Scotland. She touched the crown, then wandered back out – hardly a coronation, but, it did show where we stood in the eyes of the Establishment.
Next time, I want a wee bit more ceremonial.
Given that George I, Elector of Hanover was something like 56th in line for the throne when offered it in 1701 – the 55 ahead of him were Roman Catholics – we will not be short of potential monarchs from the Stuart line. That said, we had maybe make sure Rangers are playing in the English League when we go, otherwise the Sons of William might well be a tad unhappy at the new monarch.
I recall reading somewhere that the Duke of Buccleugh has a good claim to the throne, but, given the past record of the Scottish nobles we should maybe steer clear of any of them, or we would be back to full-scale clan warfare.
Anent the Duke of Rothesay’s choice of name when he gets the top job, I have certainly read of a liking for George VII, but, I also seen a mention of King Arthur. With suggestions that some of the Arthurian legend points to a Scots, or would that be Pictish? connection – why not.
Tomkin – ‘EU citizens must have the right to remain’ If England leaves the EU and it’s rights. Then Tomkin’s loses the right to remain in Scotland (in the EU). A quite difficult Constitutional problem. ‘Go home migrants’ The Tory/Unionist slogan of abuse and privilege.
Whoever employed Tomkin at Edinburgh University needs their head examined. They should resign or be sanctioned. A 2nd rate reject troughing on Scottish taxpayers public money which could be better spent. Ignorant in Scottish Law, a basic requirement. Swanning round the world on double expenses. Lying for England and manipulation the public sector for private profit.
Cameron illegally lied and ruined the British/NI economy to buy a tax evaded Estate in Scotland. When England brexit he will lose the EU right to stay there. A publicly funded holiday home. That is why Cameron is in politics. The Gladstone Estate in Fasque, Fettercairn is up for sale (£9Million) because the ‘family’ no longer use it. Gladstone a Liberal – the Balfour Agreement and Partition of Ireland – used public money to fund it.
The Balfour Agreement and Partition of Ireland introduced before Universal Suffrage (1928) an illegal, illegitimate consequence of unelected privilege, produced two of the most bloody undemocratic conflicts in the world. Cameron was swanning about in an Aston Martin, Jaguar and a private jet (£10 million) financed by public money when he was cutting NHS funding and sanctioning, bombing and starving the vulnerable to death at home and abroad.
The ‘family’ are selling Fasque Estate for £9Million. A bit out of Cameron’s tax evaded price range? It could be broken up. Will there be tax to pay on the purchase. Stamp duty etc. Eventual death duties? Where will these be registered in England or in Scotland. Who will benefit?
The divisions between the privilege rich and the vulnerable poorer. Unionist unfair political privilege, lies, criminal manipulate and misuse of public money. On grotesque, carbuncles The majority wasting £Billions of public money and killing and harming millions of innocent people.
Thanks a billion Rev Stu for every thing you do. Thanks a Billion.
Thanks Nicola, Alex and Co for protecting Scotland from the ‘Pyscho Bastards’, Their own description’. Cameron called them ‘Pyschos’ Major called them ‘Bastards’.
The majority in Britain and Ireland want to stay in the EU. They are being taken out illegitimately against their will.
Will @ 9.55
I don’t think it is our business to Save/interfere with the English.
That’s the reason the union doesn’t work for Scotland.
They have to get on with it for themselves.
All we in Scotland should be offering is friedship.
We need to concentrate on doing what the voter’s here want.
Clearly the English electorate want to forge another path,and I for one think they are entitled to do so.
They are just not entitled to force Scotland along with them.
We should Infact act like a sovereign and limited ourselves to advise and caution but stay the hell out of their politics.
wull 9.55
Precisely.
Slightly O/T, but the news about the Declaration of Arbroath reminded me of the work done before the 2014 referendum on a constitution for an Independent Scotland. After the 45% vote, all seemed to go quiet on this topic, but I feel this is something which should now be on the Scottish government’s “to do” list, and possibly quite near the top of it, given the rapid progress of events.
Does anyone know what is happening on this front?
@ Liz G 11.28
I agree.
“We should Infact act like a sovereign and limited ourselves to advise and caution but stay the hell out of their politics.”
I’m already sick of hearing about all the leaders who have run away, what a mess. Couldn’t give a rat’s nether regions who gets what, although the Rev’s piece did cheer me up last night!
I think this is what Nicola’s doing already and we should believe also.
I asked on here (before the EU ref?) if SNP MPs should start referring to ‘THESE United Kingdoms’ when in WM. Can you imagine if EBC had to show a piece from say, PMQs with that in it? It may not be ‘noticed’ right away, but I’m sure we’d find some way of highlighting it. lol.
Call me Dave and Socrates Mcsporran , an American Morman 2nd cousin recently got in touch with the family and presented a booking tracing the family line through my maternal Grandmother. He claims that I ‘ my siblings and cousins were 33rd generation direct descendants from William the Conk.
I emailed to thank him for the work he had put in and he reckoned he had got as far back as king Tut, I said wonderful you should be able to get us as far back as Adam and Eve from there and he said that was his plan, ain’t heard from him since so guess I can only claim linaege from King Tut 🙂
So I have probably as much of a claim than Betty’s offspring. Gotta say if offered I would take the job on as long as I didn’t have to move to Edinburgh!
Never mind which side of the line in the sand she’s on.
She’s on the wrong side of history and she knows it.
It’s all gone. Cameron’s pet, popped onto the top of the list, shoe-horned into leadership, beating labour. The peak was putting Boris down on tv. (How pleased Cammers must have been with her). The sky was the limit and then…
Whoops, wrong thread!
Liz Rannoch @ 12.15
Think we are definitely on the same page Liz.
Did you notice during Nicola’s speech to the queen at the opening of Holyrood ?
She referred to Europe as Our Continent,Phils face was a picture,he was looking at her like she was ….dare I say it…a foreigner he couldn’t understand. So funny.
Liz G and others above: I don’t think we radically disagree. Scotland must do what is right and best for herself. At the same time, insofar as it may be possible, that includes doing what we can to keep England and rUK in the EU. Because that IS good for Scotland, including an independent Scotland, in the long run.
That is in line with what Nicola Sturgeon meant a) when she campaigned to keep the whole of the current UK in the EU during the referendum and, b) when, after the result was announced, she said she was not approaching the situation primarily from the perspective of how to use it to obtain Scotland’s independence but – primarily – in terms of how to keep Scotland within the EU.
Nicola is quite celar that if continued EU membership can be done from within the UK, she’ll go along with that. Gaining independence will remain the ultimate objective, but what she wants is ‘independence within Europe’, in accordance with constant and long-standing SNP policy. When she said a new referendum for independence was now ‘on the table’ again as a distinct possibility, she specified that this would be done IF it turned out to be the only way to keep Scotland in the EU. Meanwhile, she said she would not pull the trigger on a new independence referendum UNTIL all other avenues for keeping Scotland inside the EU had been explored, and were exhausted.
My post was entirely in keeping with that policy, and supportive of it. I think it very likely that the ONLY way to keep Scotland in the EU without calling a new referendum on independence would be if the British government in Westminster renounced on its intention to invoke Clause 50, or was defeated when it attempted to do so. The SNP has every right to foster and encourage such a scenario, in order to maintain Scotland’s best interests. Doing so would also be a proper and principled stand, as my post tried to point out.
The fact is that the SNP, much cannier and saner than the gambling-addicted Cameron, did not want to be rushed into a new independence referendum too early. It very sensibly does not want to do it until it is sure it’s going to win. Secondly, when Scotland is independent in Europe she always wanted England and the rest of the UK to be good-neighbour allies within the same EU. That is perfect common sense: we don’t want a psychological war of attrition and resentment going on along the land border we share with our southern neighbours.
The SNP policy in all these regards is eminently sane and sensible, and we should be supportive of it. Such a wonderful contrast to the ocean of nonsense which is currently engulfing Westminster. Why would we not want to do what we can to give a helping hand to our nearest neighbour and future close ally, in order to lift them out of the mire in which they are currently sinking? There are plenty of sane people in England who would eventually thank us for it.
We are not anti-English; we are pro-European. And we happen to think that England is and should remain a European country as well, along with us.
What’s good for Scotland is good for all of us, and an England in Europe, once more restored to sanity, is one of these good things.
In fact, I doubt very much that we will be able to persuade current Westminster politicians to abandon implementing Clause 50. But we should try. That is the morally right thing to do, for everyone’s sake.
Once we have tried to achieve this result and failed, and once it is clear that the only way to keep Scotland in Europe is to hold a new referendum on independence and win it – then, of course, that is what the SNP must and will do.
If, as I expect, that does finally turn out to be what happens, that course of action will have my full support. But Nicola is absolutely right to explore all other avenues first, and exhaust all the possible alternatives, before concluding that that is the only way for us to proceed. And she will do so, even though she will be more aware than some of us of the risk involved – it could still turn out to be just a little bit too soon. As Cameron now knows, there is never any absolute guarantee of winning any referendum.
Angela Eagle’s earlier CLP history:
Will
If you are still reading this thread.
I am writing this just after Chilcot has been released.
A warning, I think, about while it is acceptable to have and express an opinion about what another country should do is fine.
But to take action -ANY-action to ensure they move in the direction you want,despite what their people want is just plain wrong.Therefore!!!
It is not Scotland’s role to “save ” England from it’s self,no matter how much we believe “it’s the right thing to do”.
Sam and Dave – sorry 2 immigrants that we definitely don’t want here.