Richard Baker is a liar
It’s nice to see Scottish Labour taking turns. Today it’s Richard Baker who’s been wheeled out to spout idiotic and instantly-disproveable untruths at the Scottish public.
Shall we?
Responding to the publication of revised oil analysis figures by the Scottish Government, Scottish Labour’s Richard Baker MSP, said:
“Last week we found out that in private John Swinney thinks that oil revenues will fall in a separate Scotland, bringing into question the affordability of even the state pension.
No we didn’t. The leaked cabinet paper posited a potential scenario based on figures issued by the UK’s OBR a year ago. It did not state that those figures were definitively correct.
“So on Alex Salmond’s orders he has spent the weekend cooking the books to come up with an extra £26 billion out of thin air.
Not “out of thin air” – out of pre-existing forecasts by highly respected, impartial experts, oil industry bodies and international organisations. Precisely none of the figures are based on Scottish Government estimates.
“The SNP really do think that they can treat the people of Scotland like fools.
Need we even bother with this one?
“They have been embarrassed by what they agreed in private, so they manufacture figures to spout in public five days later.
As noted above, these figures have not been “manufactured”, none were created by the Scottish Government, and were all produced and published BEFORE the release of the leaked paper.
“But the difference between these figures in just a single year is the equivalent of everything we spend on our schools, colleges and universities.
Looks like we can definitely afford free tuition, then.
“Alex Salmond is asking the people of Scotland to gamble the nation’s future on figures which didn’t exist until he had a bad week in the press last week.
A blatant, simple, empirical lie. All of these figures came out either on the same day as the GERS report or months earlier.
“Far from there being an oil boom, one of Alex Salmond’s key arguments has just gone bust.”
Five out of six forecasts put oil revenues much higher than the OBR suggests. The OBR is the outlier by a considerable distance, has a track record of underestimating future oil prices, and – as a body reporting directly to the UK Treasury – has a vested interest in painting a bleak picture of an independent Scotland’s finances. Hmm, who to believe?
Labour are barely even bothering to try to conceal their lies behind a fog of obfuscation now. Goodness knows what they’ll be saying by autumn 2014. We wouldn’t be surprised to hear that Scotland was under threat from Godzilla.
Scotland is under threat from Godzilla. I defy you to prove otherwise.
Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them… well, I have others.
Groucho Marx
those are my economic forecasts , and if you don’t like them… well, I have others.
Alex Salmond
@Nikostratos
Yawn!
I think it might be time for an official trolling warning for poor mad Niko. That’s one strike.
Well who knew, Richard Baker eh? This the same wunderkind who fed Gray imaginary knife crime figures to wave about?
@Nikostratos.
‘those are my economic forecasts , and if you don’t like them… well, I have others.
Alex Salmond’
No they are NOT. They are the figures from the oil industry- you know, the ones who actually put their money where their collective mouths are!
The OBR is the Westminster government body who predicts on behalf of that government.
Now sit up and pay attention!
BTW rev Stu. Love the ‘tricky Dick’ link when you click the picture!
Scotland is under threat from Godzilla
Scotland’s too wee for Godzilla. We’d have to settle for Archbishopzilla.
Now David, it’ll confuse poor unionist visitors if you go giving them factual sources of information, they’re not used to it. The poor dears are far happier with bite size chunks of soundbite info derived from popular media.
link to scotland.gov.uk
link to scottish-enterprise.com
link to scotland.gov.uk
Still if it helps our visitors at all. 🙂
There was an ace comment on one of the no pages today along the lines of “We know oil is not the whole of the Scottish economy, there is more to it but the SNP aren’t telling us what it is!!!”
So there you have it. The SNP are hiding “what happens in the Scottish economy apart from oil”. It’s no wonder some people are so ill-informed and happy to believe whatever lies Labour spoon feeds them. It’s a wonder they manage to do their weekly shop without some political party telling them what to put in their trolley.
Newly published analysis released by the Scottish government predicts that a “renewed oil boom” will lead to an average of £48bn of revenue over the next six years.
link to newsnetscotland.com
link to newsnetscotland.com
Cath – I remember talking to someone who was a genuine “I would vote Yes but I’m worried about how much of the economy is based on oil” person and trying to explain to them how diverse Scotland’s economy truly is, and it struck me how odd it was to be trying to explain the diversity of the economy – we must be the only country in the world where people actually feel the need for a comprehensive breakdown of how the economy is structured.
What I think we need to start saying to people is “do you work in the oil industry? No? Well does everyone you know work in the oil industry then? No? So what does that tell you then?”
(Doesn’t work in Aberdeen of course, where quite literally* every job is, in some way, related to the oil industry. But hey, so is every job in Stavanger.)
Or my other favourite retort is “well what is the UK economy based on?” which no layperson who asks the original question can actually answer, and usually does a good job of highlighting why the fascination with how much of the economy is based on the oil industry is a bit odd.
*Not literally literally.
estimated
approximately
estimates
estimated
estimated
relatively
estimated
estimated
estimated
approximately
expected
expected
expected
estimated
expected
suggesting
estimate
suggests
implies
etc etc etc
Well as we can see the snps bulletin gives no definite evidence we can conclude on the ‘upside’ its just all speculation put out as political propaganda to revive the Nationalists flagging campaign.
ER! Two strikes
“ER! Two strikes”
You said it, dear. You can’t really have an IQ of 20 or you wouldn’t be allowed to operate a computer unsupervised, so you must know perfectly well that those estimates are no more and no less estimatey than the estimates you and your pals got so worked up about on Wednesday. And since you must know that you’re applying a laughably hypocritical double standard, it therefore follows that you’re deliberately trolling, and trolls are not welcome here.
Last chance.
@Nikkazalltatterredantorn-
So, you’re a concrete poet as well, eh?
Some man.
We manufacture 28% of Europe’s PCs, and 7% of the entire world’s, as well as 29% of Europe’s notebook laptops – all in this small nation of five million odd souls. It accounts for 14% of our GDP, which is about the same as oil and gas would, but you never hear a word about it, not even from the SNP.
link to realscience.org.uk
Some folk must be mystified by the robustness of our export figures, since they seem to assume everybody here either works for the council or is on the dole.
It really is remarkable that people need to be told all this stuff about their own economy… though less remarkable when I remember that I didn’t know it myself till a few years ago.
Oil and gas is just the icing on a pretty healthy cake, which has survived being left out in the rain by Westminster for decades.
Baker and his tory friends at Better Together are held together with chewing gum. They are not the problem.
The real problem is the BBC in Scotland and their complicit action in supporting the Better Together Campaign last wednesday. First off was the hatchet job by Douglas Fraser on the GERS figures and then we had the “dodgy dossier” moment on Newsnight Scotland.
The BBC in Scotland are without doubt the greatest threat to Scottish independence. In this pre-referendum period, minds will be made up and with solid conditioning that will be hard to break. The BBC in Scotland are trying to form the opinion of the Scottish people for them.
What are we to do? Any talk of trying direct action against the BBC is nonsense because this would cause a backlash and the BBC could tell the story in any language they like. “Nutter Nationalists” would most probably be the headline.
Last week I happened upon a chap called Craig Murrey. He was the ex-British Ambassador to Uzbekistan and after the CIA rendition flights to that part of the world, he became a whistle-blower, which after being poisoned nearly cost him his life. He now campaigns through his blog for social change.
On Friday he released a blog about the BBC in Scotland and the propaganda and bias that they employ. More interestingly, he came up with a workable solution that is very astute. Read it here;-
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Thanks to Wings over Scotland for letting me post this. I just thought your readers should know.
Kindest regards,
David Milligan – a very Sovereign Scot
The crazy thing is, even if oil was to run out in 40 years, what are we saying, that we will do what Thatcher did and squander it attacking Unions and putting about 8 million on the dole (before the fix of figures) or will we use that money to rebuild our infrastructure, create new businesses, get our schools up to date, bring in proper vocational universities that can teach professions and not academics.
No one resource will ever make a country wealthy, but if you are given a gift and refuse it, or worse squander it, then you deserve everything you get. The SNP want Scotland to grow, to become a place where its inhabitants want live not just exist. Oil is our gift but it’s up to us to use it wisely and not squander it on illegal wars, attacking the poor, and running down our Country which is everything the We Need Someone to Blame Alliance wants to do.
You sound a bit panicked there Niko. Alastair Darling seems the same. Is something up? Past week been a bit stressful or something?
Admittedly, with the no campaign having peaked last year according to polls, the pressure must be mounting, what with over a year and a half still to go.
Niko, this is why you and the Unionists are not trusted and worse, the laughing stock that you are. Put simply, one rule for Nationalists but another completely different rule for Us, the Unionists.
Make a similar list for any government document dealing soley in forecasts and predictions. You should remember that the electorate does not divide down the ‘our team’ and ‘their team’ lines that your mind seems to operate, but look upon this double standard in disgust. It’s probably our best weapon.
I shouldn’t really tell you that, but it just shows you how confident I am in the stupidity of the BetterNO campaign that it will make no difference at all to the final result.
I know you like your films so here’s an appropriate quote for you, ‘You can certainly show the condemned man the rope he will be hanged by, but then that still won’t stop the hanging.’
You know how some bus stops have those wee dot matrix screens, the ones that tell you buses are ‘expected’. Or perhaps in railway stations when they say trains are ‘expected’. Well that’s pretty much what the word means, it means we’re pretty sure this is what will happen, but some completely unforseen event might make the bus/train a bit late, something we haven’t been able to plan for. See the year-old briefing that’s called planning for the expected events that might make things not happen, that’s what real governments do rather than blindly stumble about reacting to events that were completely foreseeable. Now estimate, I’m sure you did estimating in primary school. You must know what estimating means, it means a very good guess, because some tools of measurement are not to hand. An estimate is a number based on the tools of measurement available. I think you need to perhaps read up on the difference between accuracy and precision sometime just in case those words pop up somewhere. Nobody in the world has accurate statistics, they are all estimates, based as they are on incomplete or imprecise measurement tools. Most companies produce accounts that are estimates with revisions over a set period. What part of the universe do you believe you are living in, because I just don’t recognise the physics?
Thanks Caroline.
@Nikostratus
Countries have been invaded for a lot less oil, yet you believe the UK government are straight down the line, wouldn’t lie to us Scots, only have our best interests at heart etc. I know, I know, we’ll only mishandle our countries wealth just like Norway does. it’s best to leave it to the intellectuals at the UK treasury. FFS Niko wake up, you can’t see the wood for the SNPs
So there we now have proof if ever it was needed that Labour really do live in a parallel universe where black is white and white is black.
Niko is doing a fine job of highlighting the simple-minded nature of unionism.
“If you can’t give me cast-iron guarantees, then I’m not interested.”
I think if Niko somehow found himself in front of speeding train, rather than trying to jump out of the way – which MIGHT entail a scabby knee, or MIGHT mean he doesn’t jump far enough and gets run over anyway – he’d rather just stand still and get run over. Hey, certain death is better than the uncertainty of MAYBE surviving, eh?
“What I think we need to start saying to people is “do you work in the oil industry? No? Well does everyone you know work in the oil industry then? No? So what does that tell you then?””
Exactly. Or point them to any other country like, say Austria, Finland, Denmark, Luxembourg who don’t have oil and ask how on earth they think they keep afloat? Especially given they also don’t have whisky.
“We wouldn’t be surprised to hear that Scotland was under threat from Godzilla.”
Nessie will save us! Unfortunately however Elgin may be crushed in the ensuing battle.
Death is the only certainty. (Even taxes can be avoided.)
To DM at 4.29
I totally agree that Craig Murray has put the key in the lock with his article on BBC bias. I also know the SDA organisation proposed the same solution around a year ago and in fact they triggered an approach to these European bodies, so I don’t believe the SG would overlook such a strategy.
That said, there is obviously an optimum manner to invoke such as OSCE. Just by seeing the almost rabid press reaction to the latest positive GERS figures and atrocious BBC negative spin, as though orchestrated, SG’s timing will be of the essence.
What’s beyond doubt, is that the UK’s international reputation will lie in absolute tatters, so much so, I think the merest threat of it will be enough, just to have it sitting in the SG’s corner.
What Craig Murray now proposes will have huge ramifications.
He writes; ‘…
Action must be taken now. That necessary and urgent action is for Alex Salmond and the Government of Scotland to approach the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) and request that the subordinate Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR, ponounced Oh Dear!) deploy immediately an election monitoring mission to cover the referendum.
I have witnessed ODIHR monitoring operations in action, and once had a job interview in Warsaw to be Head of ODIHR. In this, the pre-campaign period, ODIHR will immediately despatch a small team to Scotland of which the principal task will be media monitoring. They will be guided by this ODIHR media monitoring handbook.
This details what they analyse, including these criteria:
Niko is a classsic example of the sad troll who posts on sites which are diametrically opposed to what they believe in. They get off on making deliberately offensive/idiotic/false/lying statements to promote a response. Often they are found out to be socially inept and unable to attract a partner into a stable relationship with them – saddos, basically!
Niko’s approach is also fairly typical troll behaviour in that if, and more usually, when they get banned from a site they will then go on the offensive on other sites to do down that site from which they have been banned. The Unionist Better Together Vote No trolls are particularly prominent in this field of internet trolling: troll a pro-Scottish independence website with increasingly offensive posts until they get banned by that site then go to wherever they can to post lies like, ‘The Nationalists on (website X) won’t accept any criticism!’ or, ‘(website X) bans anyone who doesn’t agree with them.’ or, ‘On (website X) they only talk about how much they hate the English.’ ad nauseum. So predictable. So pathetic.
“At first I was a Brit
I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live
Without you by my side
But then I spent so many nights
Thinking how you did me wrong
And I grew strong
And I learned how to get along
And so you’re back
From Labour Hame
I just walked in to find you here
With that sad look upon your face
I should have changed that stupid lock
I should have made you leave your key
If I had known for just one second
You’d be back to bother me
Go on now go walk out the door
Just turn around now
’cause you’re not welcome anymore
Weren’t you the one who tried to hurt me with your lies
Did you think I’d crumble
Did you think I’d lay down and die
Oh no, not I
I will survive
Oh as long as i know how to vote
I know I will stay alive
I’ve got all my life to live
I’ve got all my votes to give
And I’ll survive
I will survive (hey-hey)”
– Thanks Gloria.
Dal Riata,
I know the type, but I think our Niko is of a different mould.
I could be wrong, but I detect a glimmer of humour and so intelligence under that sad wee, green, muscle bound exterior.
It’s true that we don’t like him ‘when he’s angry’ but who knows, when we meet him after it’s all over and he is calm once more, (without his trousers and shirt in tatters) he may well be a very worthwhile addition to a free and independent Scotland.
Although I have been wrong before! (hopefulsmiley?)
Yesitis, that is twice today a poster here has made me laugh out loud. My only other laughter has come from the Better Together facebook page. I don’t post there ‘cos you have to Like it first, but some of the comments are good value.
Cheers, BillyBigbaws.
Well I`m off to watch Better Together TV, sorry, Reporting Scotland 🙂
While he’s pondering whether or not to go for a red-card, Niko might enjoy this:
link to youtube.com
Coconut for the first to make the connection between the clip and this thread – Go!
Aye, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them check references or bibliography. 🙂
Personally I’m going with the considered opinion (estimates) of industry experts rather than failed chancellor Mr Darling and ‘better no’. 🙂
@ianbrotherhood
Easy – Richard Baker reading out a load of fiction that even kiddies won’t believe.
Used to love Mary Mungo and Midge when I was wee.
I’ve got to go out, so here’s the coconut for whoever gets the connection – if you don’t get the link you can’t look at the prize, so nae Buster-Keaton!
link to myhealthycafe.com
@ Braco
you might want to have a look at our good chum Pseudepigrahia web site. The May 6 2011 edition of the Hootsmon has a very interesting sub headline regarding Niko.
http://mypseudepigrapha.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00Z&updated-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00Z&max-results=47
Wonder if he did?
Coconut for the first to make the connection between the clip and this thread – Go!
Mary, Mungo and Midge was narrated by one Richard Baker – Although not thesame one as this article relates to.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Fresh coconut – great for a curry, thanks Ian
@Dal Riata
Been in a stable relationship for years and years and years
two grand children due within two weeks or sooner.
Never been banned any where this will be first oh well!
and no doubt you will give an example of any
‘deliberately offensive’ remark on here er! no as there aint any.
apart from that your psychobabble is wery interesting.
Richard Baker is up there with Willie Rennie as one of the most hopeless politicians at Holyrood. The one thing that separates him from the gaffe prone Rennie is that at least Rennie stood for election and put his name on a ballot paper Baker didn’t.
I like the way you have called him out,its a line of questioning any half decent journalist would use and Baker would lose the argument immediately as he is lying and he knows it.
@AdrianB –
Well done that man.
Honestly, I don’t know what I am looking forward to more, Independence or the demise of unionist trolls.
Dramfineday,
Yes, I believe as a man of honour, he did. That is why no matter our political differences, I always show the respect that such dedication to a cause, no matter how lost, deserves.
Men (and Women) of such honour should and will always have a place in a free and independent Scotland.
Please don’t ban Niko.
Is Richard Baker even human.
Dramfineday
Me and Conan go back many many years
we met on the Scotsman comments in the olden days
before blogging took off.
Now there was a mad house
Whisky accounts for a third of the UK food and drink export, not bad for a country one tenth of the UK population. Have you ever been anywhere and seen finest English beef advertised? have you seen Scotch beef promoted? Maitland Mackie a unionist sells his ice cream and crisps to the far east, a little snippet in the Sunday Post revealed millions of pounds in fines levied in Scotland go straight to the UK treasury.
Oil prices are volatile, no shit Sherlock but the money would go a lot further in a country of 5 million as opposed to 65 million. I really am sick to the soles o my tackity boots at all the negativity from the bitter together mob, as someone said they are fighting for their careers, we are fighting for our country.
“Fools” and Richard Baker – Ham and eggs, beans on toast, fish and chips etc.,etc.
I see Nico says he/she has been in a stable relationship “for years and years and years”
Do you think this is where he/she gets all the horse shit he/she spreads around?
Niko -First and last time I will waste time on you. If you don’t believe the Scottish Government, go talk to the oil companies!
Nikostratos says:
11 March, 2013 at 7:27 pm
@Dal Riata
Been in a stable relationship for years and years and years
two grand children due within two weeks or sooner.
Niko,
I hope everything goes well for mum and the new arrivals. No smart comments or quips, just genuinely wish them well 🙂
Doug Daniel says:
Niko is doing a fine job of highlighting the simple-minded nature of unionism.
“If you can’t give me cast-iron guarantees, then I’m not interested.”
I am gutted to say that this is by far and away the prevailing mindset that I have encountered from those even open to the idea of independence. They tell me that they want impartial “independent” expert opinion (although are also clear that opinion is not what they want, they want fact). but they say that they do not expect to go looking for the information and (to quote a couple that i spoke to at the weekend) “want to be spoon fed by the bbc”. i do not think that any of us realise how big an effort this is going to be. i’m planning to start having YES parties, starting off with like minded friends. Individuals can not do it. It needs to be a mass movement. to build that we need to develop the social side of thinks (in the sense of a social experience).
any chance of a wings over scotland party? would the pro independence arts movement provide the entertainment. Imagine “Indy in de Park” (so long as there is a techno tent). If we are going to have a chance in autumn 2014 something like that would have to be achievable in the summer of 2014. Imagine it on the same scale as Glastonbury? Surely there would be a farmer or land owner who would give the use of their land. Surely we could get a line up of Scottish and international artists who would support it.
Sorry I dont really know or understand figures, issues effecting this debate. What I do know for certain is Richard Baker is a Kn*b of the first order.
@Niko
Congratulations on being an exception to the un-partnered saddo rule. But…you still come on this website to troll – why do you do that?
Prediction (or estimate based on the best available evidence). Niko will, thinking of his wee grand bairns and whether their future should be in a collapsing Empire, with all the shitstorm that goes witht that, or in a reborn nation, seeking to be free and fair. Niko will go into that booth in 2014 and make his mark against Should Scotland be an Independent Country YES X
Surely we are all big enough to let Nikos remarks run like water of a ducks back. The best way to deal with people who make constant sneering and snide remarks is to totally ignore them, do not engage them. They will soon fade away as what they want more than anything is attention. If you look at the likes of Grahamski and the other nutters who used to infest the now failed and dying Scotsman, you can see how their behaviour is subject to the laws of diminishing returns and they eventually shrivel up and die. It is hard to ignore these attention seekers but it is a very effective tactic. I even had one complain to me that I never answer his remarks on the DT, it is really quite pathetic.
Lord Foulkies is rumoured to spend his life on the forums sneering at and arguing with those who engage with him. Which makes perfect sense as all the old scrotum has in his life is filling in expenses claims and sleeping of the effects of his subsidised boozing in the HOLs bars. I bet he is on here also. It may even be Niko. There is an army of people who have a vested interest in the union being maintained no matter how damaging it is to Scotland. These are the MPs, the Lords, and all their hangers on, relatives and sycophants. Then add to that mix those whose careers are in the Scottish Office which is no more than the UK Propaganda office, and we have probably got a few thousand hard core unionists who dedicate their lives to patrolling the forums spreading lies and disinformation, day and night.
Lets face it if you are a Scottish MP/ Lord/ SO employee, you have nothing else to fill your time but using state resources which we pay for, to attack and attack all the forums that discuss Scottish politics on a day to day basis. That is very obvious by the common threads that they all use daily. BBC Scotland are in that loop probably the main operators.
Hi Niko
yes I know about your tustles with Conan – and I enjoyed them – hence remembering that one.
Hope all goes well with the arrival of the little-ones.
Enjoy a dram when they come!
Where else in the Western World would a bare-faced lying carpet-bagging nemotode like Richard Baker, or for that matter Willie Rennie, Ruth Davidson,Johan Lamont etc. etc. get houseroom or allowed the ‘oxygen of publicity’ in a National media?
Answer: only in a self-loathing and State-serving mickey mouse set-up like the ‘Scottish’ BBC or the ‘John Beattie’ show on a loop as it now appears to be.Tenth rate self-serving numbskulls doing their masters’ work: distorting, destroying and disinforming the Scottish public’s access to any chance of reasoned comprehension of the opportunity for real change facing it. ‘Professor’ Curtice the resident pet monkey with the political vision of Stevie Wonder and the intellect of Jimmy Krankie always on hand to ‘rubbish’ anything remotely positive about Independence. Add in all the usual suspects when required from the Universities and think tanks (nearly all with Labour party credentials) and unionist glovepuppets like Sally Magnusson, Jackie Bird, Glen Campbell, Gary Robertson, Kaye Adams etc. then MI6 is doing a pretty good job through chief propagandist, John Boothman. The sad fact about all this is that this collective of liars is at this very moment trying their best to coat the SNP Goverment with a veneer of deceit!
The sooner said SG listens and acts on Craig Murray’s advice and approach the OSCE the better!.
For those of you who say we cannot change minds on our own I say you already are.
For those of you who say we cannot survive on our own I say we have no other choice because we will not survive being part of a larger nation that treats us like a lesser region.
For those of you who are beginning to panic I say calm yourselves and take a closer look at the opposition and you will see them panic even more.
The more concerned they become the more ridiculous their arguments become and by all accounts their arguments are becoming extremely ridiculous.
They tell the people of Scotland that the Oil is a burden and it is running out anyway but they tell their friends in the ‘City’ that it will be a major part of the ‘UK’ Economy for decades to come. The Scottish Unionist lapdogs either know this already in which case they are ("Tractor" - Ed)s guilty of trying to deceive the people of Scotland on behalf of their Masters in London or they are totally ignorant to the fact those same Masters are presenting to contradictory messages to two different audiences. Either way they are Gutless or Gullible.