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Return of the boat people

Posted on January 05, 2019 by

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    544 to “Return of the boat people”

    1. Ken500 says:

      Objectifying people. Can be non productive and competetive. People chose to do what they can manage. There are many avenues to make a contribution. Just that they can. Altruistic. Brings people pleasure. They like that ie helping others. Their only human after all. Their only human after all. It not a kudos competion. It is a contribution. Not super personality. Or Personal attention.

    2. Effijy says:

      I’m concerned that May seems to be more relaxed on TV the last couple of days?

      This gibbering wreck looks like she has something up her sleeve.

      Has she give out enough Knighthoods, promises of Cabinet positions and cushy part time jobs on the boards of her toxic supporters?

      I fear her absolutely terrible but the best I could do deal is about to be accepted.

    3. Capella says:

      @ Proud Cybernat – I think the best way to deal with racist posts is to follow Stu’s advice above the comment box – please read this page for comment rules:

    4. Ken500 says:

      Wait and see how the dice fall. That is affective and efficient. Instead of double guessing.

    5. Iain mhor says:

      Afternoon all.
      Still in the midst of a bout of Hansard reading from post war politics of 1950 anent the “Schuman Plan” (germ of the eu)
      There are a few gems – “plus ca change…”

      “Is there a country in the world less fitted for political or economic isolation. Do we really want to find ourselves confronted by a hostile United States and a hostile united Europe under German leadership, each with a capacity of steel production greater than ours?”

      “This document (European Unity pamphlet- Dalton) is redolent of the narrow, insular nationalism and isolationism of which the late Lord Snowden was, so formidable an exponent and which still has deep roots in this country. It breathes the genuine spirit of Little Englandism, which lost us our American Colonies and finally landed us in two world wars with inadequate armaments…
      (It is) an effort to find excuses for rejecting European union, because that is what this pamphlet amounts to, the pamphlet falls back upon two things—Atlantic union and the Commonwealth. I wish to say a few words on that. Maybe the authors of the pamphlet forgot the Preamble to the Marshall Plan passed by the Congress, which states: It is further declared to be the policy of the people of the United States to encourage the unification of Europe. I do not think we ought to forget that. In any event, we are unlikely to further the cause of Atlantic Union by what the “Manchester Guardian” quite justly calls “self-righteous insular boasting,” and that is what this pamphlet was—self-righteous insular boasting”

      “Treaties are inadequate, for they only provide for nations to act together if they wish to do and never for action where they do not agree. The Foreign Secretary went on: It did not provide for union in the sense of some pooling of sovereignty or the creation of a European federated state. A little later he said:Meanwhile, the only course open to us is to unite voluntarily what can be united, merging national interests so far as possible into the common pool. We have no intention, however, of being diverted from the great practical task to which we have set our hands by any academic discussions about sovereignty”

      There is a great deal more, for the insomniacs and those who like to read such things and understand the deep history behind Brexit – I recommend the following. (Skip to Boothby at 4:pm if you are in a hurry for the gist)

      Hansard Schuman Plan – June27 1950 (2nd day)

    6. Breeks says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      7 January, 2019 at 12:01 pm
      Last month, annoyed at the apparent lack of movement by the SNP on Indyref2, I dropped Nicola Sturgeon a wee note, inviting her to move things along.

      You’re very lucky Socrates. I’ve sent emails to Nicola Sturgeon, Joanna Cherry, Alyn Smith, Paul Wheelhouse, and John Swinney, the SNP in general, and was it Tommy Shepherd who even invited comments? Him too…

      I haven’t had the courtesy of a reply from any single one of them.

      Nerves of steel? Hmmm… brass maybe, but I’m not really all that fussed frankly.

      I don’t care who does it, why they do it, or whether they do it anonymously or for the celebrity of it, or the infamy,… SOMEBODY needs step forward and ensure that Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is appropriately recognised, thus ensuring Scotland has Legal Personality in discussions and negotiations, and an inviolate Sovereign Constitution that must be respected under international law.

      Please note, we do not need these things to be created, carried by democratic majority, or prescribed in new legislation, we just need the truth of what properly already exists to be recognised and the principle thereby established actively defended.

      It occurs to me that it would help muchly, if the said principles were defended BEFORE the reckless colonial imposition of an unlawful and unconstitutional Brexit. It’s really not that complicated a scenario, but I’m damned if I can explain what advantage has been accrued from leaving ourselves with a mere 81 days to do it from a cold standing start. Maybe you should email your MP or MSP and see if you get an answer.

      But don’t dwell long upon it. 81 days with evaporate before our eyes.

    7. Effijy says:

      The Budget for NHS England in 2017 was £125 Billion.
      Planned spending for the Department of Health in England is approximately £124.7 billion in 2017/18. This includes £335 million of additional funding announced in the 2017 Autumn Budget.2 Jul 2018″

      It needs 4.5% increases year on year to stay at the same critical level it is now.

      The Tory deception proposes and “extra” £20 Billion by 2024.

      That is 7 years down the line from the 2017 figure given on-line.

      According to my calculator a 4.5% increase per annum in 2018, 19,20, and 21 takes the budget requirement to £149 Billion.

      So the NHS in England will be worse off than its critical status in 2021 and God help the sick in years 2022, 2023, and 2024.

      With the promise of committing more to mental health than at present, money will need to come out of other services to support this.

      Can’t see why they need to make this statement as Boris and his Tory Band made it clear that the NHS will get £350 Million extra per week as of the next financial year when they walk off the Brexit cliff edge.

      Englit should be the name use for this pantomime.

    8. Abulhaq says:

      @SocratesMac Sporran
      The notion that the SNP has become under the current régime more of a hinderance than a help to independence is now, however expressed, growing in the ranks: pace Craig Murray inter alia.
      Whatever tactical game is being played it is not advancing the matter. Grubbing around in the obscure corners of British party politics talking of making alliances with anti-independence UK parties while ignoring the passing opportunities for actually promoting the cause for which the SNP is supposed to be the standard bearer is irritating and wearisome.
      For those nationalists, like me, who couldn’t give a damn about the future of the geriatric British state and its trappings it suggests ‘the noble vision’ has been totally lost in the process of promoting the SNP as a nice, respectable party of devolved government.

    9. Nana says:

      Nicola spoke about Brexit and a second indyref this morning

      Case for Scottish independence ‘materially strengthened’ by Brexit

      wee video here

    10. orri says:

      To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, “I don’t think you know what that means.”

      In this case to Eyeball some one is to stare at them intently. So a highly aggressive act.

      Now I’ve faint recollections of it being in used in military circles, probably american. But since we’re undergoing an everyone I haven’t met is in the 77th phase I wouldn’t take my word for it for more reasons than one.

      Besides which given some police officers went so deep undercover they got women pregnant and then abandoned them anyone could be suspect regardless of how many others have met them.

    11. mike cassidy says:


      I post regularly and never even made the list of the unseen!

    12. Marie Clark says:

      Proud Cybernat I haven’t been to any of the wings get together, but I met Ronnie A, BDTT and Lolysmum at the Dumfries March. Just missed Smallaxe and Tinto. I dinnae seem tae be oan yer list either.

      How’s Lolysmum doing, anyone know how she is recuperating?

    13. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 7 January, 2019 at 9:35 am:

      ” … You flatter me Petra, but I think you’ll find it’s the SNP putting people off supporting the SNP.
      But hey, keep it up for 81 more days and what the fk will it matter?”

      Nah! Peta has the right of it, Breeks. Thing is you are not alone. You collude with a know group of anti-Nicola/SG/SNP numpties who most certainly oppose Scottish independence.

      There is only one political party with the power to gain for Scotland’s legally sovereign people their right to self determination. No one but the SNP can do so.

      There can thus be only two reasonable conclusions to arrive at. Either the hale boorach o ye are paid for operatives of the Westminster Establishment, perhaps from the 77th Brigade, or you support the long established, but long rejected by voters, Loonie Left of Scottish politics who cannot even get a single candidate elected to either Holyrood or Westminster.

      Thus they cannot have any chance whatsoever of ever gaining seats in either parliament or of gaining independence for the people of Scotland.

    14. orri says:

      Think the tactic regarding the SNP is to undermine confidence in them when they finally launch indyref2. Same as Labour pressing for something similar, as in not in Holyrood control, to what the SNP want with National Rail in Scotland and Scotrail. An impression that far from doing the “good” thing of their own bat they were pushed into it.

      Also suspect we’re seeing the rise of Rise again in a different format. In the unlikely event that the SNP are to fall for the cries at an early Holyrood election there will be an effort to split the pro-independence list vote as many ways as possible to overcome the slight advantage fewer choices give.

    15. cearc says:

      I see where you’re coming from but I don’t like lists. Several on yours that I’ve met, someone I know has met or who have been around forums for a decade.

      It already happens naturally via gatherings and the WoS stall etc.

      I think ‘by their postings ye shall know them’, is quite sufficient.

    16. Breeks says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      7 January, 2019 at 1:43 pm

      …. Thing is you are not alone. You collude with a know group of anti-Nicola/SG/SNP numpties who most certainly oppose Scottish independence.

      Yeah whatever Robert. sad thing is even you know you’re talking shite.

    17. Graeme says:

      “That’s not what is being said. What’s being said is that there are anti-indy, false flaggers & concern trolls regularly here on WoS attempting to cause division,”

      With all due respect is it not you causing division here between those and such as those (those in the incrowd & those not in the incrowd).

      I’ve already detected a clanishness on this site, it’s never bothered me, but it is there and this only makes it worse, I don’t think for one minute that’s your intention but I think it’s a dangerous path you’re going down with this list.

      I’m just an ordinary guy I’m a parent & grand parent & I own a small business, I don’t have much spare time to attend rallies, marches etc, I come on here to read the Revs articles and the informed comments including your own,sometimes I post if I have something to say, I don’t come on here to be labeled someone who may or may not be a troll or a false flagger.

      I understand what you’re trying to do and I don’t think you’re being deliberately malicious but I don’t think it’s fair and I don’t think it’s nice,

    18. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE” meaning of “eyeball”.

      I first used it in 1979/80 via CB radio. As CB radio was illegal, a lot of (CB) slang was used, to disguise personas and locations. In the Dundee area, Tealing became “the Chinese village”, St Marys was “The Holy City” and so on.

      “Tin Man” was so called because he worked as a metal fabricator. His wife was “Shady Lady”.

      To have an “eyeball” was to meet another breaker face-to-face.

      I eyeballed both Tin Man and Shady Lady.

    19. Tatu3 says:

      Graeme @ 2.38. My feelings exactly. What I tried to say earlier and didn’t really manage. Thank you for putting it so well.

    20. Cubby says:

      Proud Cybernat @11.12am

      I don’t think I have ever questioned any of your previous posts. In fact I have enjoyed a large number of them. However, I do not like lists and have to say you are way out of order with this. I do not like the UK gov creating lists of EU citizens. I do not think Wings is here to create lists of people that potentially might not be acceptable or not to a particular Wings poster. The last time I looked Wings is not a club.

      As someone else said “know them by their posts”. That seems appropriate to me. Phoney Independence supporters always give themselves away if they keep posting. They can’t help it – their Britnastiness always comes out.

      Please remove me from your list. I find it offensive.

    21. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dorothy, there was a Kninvie or similarwho used to post and Zi think I met gim at that first Counting house get together.

    22. Gary45% says:

      Proud Cybernat@11.12
      I can say I have spoken to Ronnie A, Ian Brotherhood, Kendo, Donna B Crazy Cat, Paula Rose to name a few. All at our first George Sq and Pathetic Quay.
      I don’t normally advertise myself at rallies etc.
      Between me and the wife we are the ones with the 2@ 5M poles with 3@ 5’x3′ flags on each.
      The wife regularly contacts Kendo regarding the fantastic mag he produces which we have subscribed since 1st issue.
      That should be enough evidence.
      I can also personally vouch for Tackety Beets.

    23. ronnie anderson says:

      Marie Clark Lolliesmum is hobbling about & getting out shopping with her Daughter with the aid of a wheelchair but hopes to be at the Wings night on 2nd of March.

      I dont know why some people are getting their knickers in ah twist for, Wingers have met up since 2013/14 at the 1st Wings stall at Strathclyde Park ( gerry parker Jim & Jan Brown Rab the Doubter now Bob Sinclair Man in the Jar & myself ).

      Those of us who can meet up face to face do , a swally session lets the hair down , the Wings stall provides a visual presence for WoS & a meeting place for Wingers to congregate , nobody should feel guilty that they cant make any events .

    24. ronnie anderson says:

      Lenny Hartley its Andrew Kinninvie friend of the manny himself Stu .

    25. orri says:

      I passed ronnie anderson’s shed on a near daily basis when I got a bus to and from the train station and home.

      However I might still be some government spook or a comradski stirring up trouble.

      Don’t assume that a competent agent provocateur would be detectable. In fact the most obvious ones might be there for that very reason. A distraction from the more subtle infiltrators.

    26. Marie Clark says:

      @ronnie anderson, thanks for the update Ronnie. Lollysmum has popped on the new thread. Nice to hear form her again, I’m pleased that she is improving.

    27. Petra says:

      I can see what you’re trying to do PC but have you ever thought, conversely, that some on the “eyeballed” list may not be genuine Independence supporters at all? I can think of a (very small) number of them that seem pretty suspect to me. Maybe even having infiltrated the Wings group pre-2014: one of the reasons for me avoiding get-togethers etc. That and the fact that I’m far too busy, involved in Independence “work” beyond this site and my real name is a one off in a UK of over 60 million people. The latter means that I prefer to remain anonymous. Hence the name “Petra” is a pseudonym.

      I reckon that you can spot the culprits a mile off anyway (from ultra-smart to the numpties) in particular those who use their time on here to continually and exclusively run Nicola Sturgeon / the SNP down (confusing and gaslighting), posting racist comments, trying to discredit genuine supporters, accusing others constantly of being “BritNats” (projection), trying to encourage or goad their tr*lling mates (known to them or not) on to the site and genuine supporters to respond in petty, childish or even in obnoxious ways. There’s more of course that I could add to that list with a number of diverse strategies being used to undermine the Independence movement by turning potential Yes voters off of Nicola / the SNP and of course by driving potential Yes voters away from this site.

      As I’ve said already I can see what you’re trying to do PC and I would love to see them ALL being outed too, such as with a wee Union Flag popping up everytime they venture on here, lol. Well that, unfortunately, isn’t going to happen and we can be rest assured that individuals who don’t support Independence are going to up their ante on this site over the next few weeks or so. We’re left with ignoring, counteracting the more “convincing arguments” or reporting the worst offenders to Stu, imo.

      On a positive note I reckon that Independence is forthcoming which will put an end to all of this. That is unless Stu continues post-Independence to monitor the media AND the Scottish Government, lol.

    28. Gary45% says:

      “Government spook” yes I thought about that also, but as I get my mug shot taken at least once a month from the Scottish Zionists , I will take my stance with anyone.

    29. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Proud Cybernat

      I don’t seem to be on your list of “eyeballers” but don’t worry I’m not vain enough to seek “glory” on it..!! 😉

      However, some of us who do write the odd comment or two don’t live in Scotland or south of the border and can’t always without difficulty for various reasons, get to the rallies, meet-ups etc. Eyeballing from afar can be difficult.

      The only other Scots I know in Germany are a few hours away and not WOSSERS.

    30. K1 says:

      You meant well PC.

      One of the main ways to discern a slight’y ‘iffy’ intent from whoever is posting is when they repeatedly say the same thing over and over again even when debate has proven their assertion or outlook to be false or misguided.

      They mistake assertion for opinion and then fight back on the basis that their ‘opinions aren’t following ‘groupthink’. Then you do know that it isn’t about whatever it is they asserted in the first place, it was either about playing the forum or that they are just a bit thick (I mean that in the nicest possible way). 🙂

    31. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 7.09am
      I thought Proud Cybernat was trying for a rough head count not trying to herd cats..LOL
      Anyhoo I don’t mind the idiots so much,they get debunked and then ignored,or they get abusive enough to point out to the Rev.
      It’s what I call the director’s that I’m wary of…
      Pronouncing what this site is for and how it should be used!
      Stu must knot himself at them,are we edgy,are we polite,who can tell???
      Now that sounds mair like state actor’s tae me?
      We will probably never know who is and isn’t what they seem,so I’d say…. Why worry,we should just keep on keeping on!!
      I just sure as shit hope edgy wins don’t want Stu getting bored enough the pull the plug!
      What say you K1

    32. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s a worthwhile exercise, and some will always object, and no harm in that, we’re all different.

      Yes there could be deeper operatives, not that much we can do about that. But I look at it from the point of view of the easy target, the 77th. If I was in charge I might use Wings as my training ground, or for exercises. For training we’d be seeing the raw recruits level 0, and maybe level 1. But I’d also have a trainer in there, a level 2 or 3.

      Thing about the 77th they’ve been going since Jan 15, but it would have taken time before regular procedures like training on Wings would happen. Which leaves less time for the level 2 or 3 to get established. So eyeballing and perhaps “vouching” would at least get past the trainees.

      That leaves the 2s or 3s, and if their primary purpose is to train up the 77th for serious work like counter-activities against the Russians and others, there’s be no point in them sacrificing their cover for the sake of Indy. In comparison with external threats, we tend to overemphasise the importance of Scotland. Doesn’t stop them having a full operation all the same, in parallel, even as a standard to measure against.

      Apart from them you’d have SIS in its different forms like MI5 and what we see is way too amateur for them. I hope!

      It could be Dover House, amateur enough for the useless Mundell or SiU even worse. Or just some mindless trolls!

      Eyeballing at least cuts it down.

    33. Dorothy Devine says:

      Lenny and Ronnie , so I didn’t imagine him then! Thank goodness.

    34. Thepnr says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      Kinievie is one of those quiet types that Wings owes a lot of thanks to for the distribution of the WBB. He was a main player.

      Didn’t he also give out Wings badges at the Counting House the night you were there?

    35. yesindyref2 says:

      I couldn’t afford the post-ref WBB, so Graf Midgehunter paid for mine as he’s in Germany. So that vouches for him, indirectly. And I gave almost my last couple to Big Phil who I’ve met, so that’s him as well. He may be able to vouch for someone from Fairlie, don’t know if they met up. We can get there “round robin” I think.

    36. Thepnr says:


      I’m not asking anybody to vouch for anybody and neither has anyone else. I’d appreciate you kicking that into touch right now. Ta in advance.

    37. yesindyref2 says:

      Well Thepnr, if you read up the thread you’ll see this in a comment “Eyeballing from afar can be difficult“, so as far as that’s concerned, I’m keeping the ball in play. No worries, you’re welcome.

    38. Thepnr says:


      Not from me you won’t see anything like that so why attribute such to me?

      Don’t attribute anything to me that clearly has nothing to do with me nor have my name on it, much appreciated.

    39. yesindyref2 says:

      I didn’t attribute it to you, it was prompted by you mentioning the WBB, so why get so antsy about it?

      If you want to go off on one for some odd reason, leave me out, TIA, HAND.

    40. Hamish100 says:

      Are there any planned rallies for Independence leading up to March? Unfortunately I have tried a few times to encourage local groups to at least hold some public meetings although (Ginger dug/ The national) road shows are great. Tends to be folk already won over. Didn’t get any replies.

      Another day gone.

      If bbc scotland can report on 11 labourites standing outside Central Station I am sure they can cover us!!!

    41. K1 says:

      ‘Pronouncing what this site is for and how it should be used!’

      The…bane…the bane…lol

      Aye Liz themz the wurzt 🙂

      Sure as hell keep on keepin’ on Liz, nuthin’ else furrit 😉

    42. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 1.01
      Tru Dat…

    43. Cactus says:

      They remind me of these guys:

      And here’s just SJ frae a previous position:

      iScotland will save ye people.

    44. Cactus says:

      This 80’s tvtoon came into me heid outa nowhere when ah used 2 watch!

      CHECK OUT what the first episode just happened to be about:

      Inspired by Cherry frae ‘Moray’ ~ thx (if U see this)

      Analogyville above btw.


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