The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Ploughing the depths

Posted on January 05, 2013 by

We’ve been warning for a while now that the independence debate is likely to get uglier before it gets prettier this year, despite the protestations of the No camp that they want a mature and respectful discussion. The bleaker reality, however, is revealed by former Labour spin doctor Simon Pia in today’s Dundee Courier.

His column “The Long And Winding Road To 2014” isn’t online as far as we can tell, but the SNP’s Kevin Pringle kindly took a snapshot of the piece for us. You can click on the image above to read the whole thing, but one passage in particular is revealing when it comes to what we should expect in the next 18 months.

“What is particularly amusing is hearing the Nats appeal for a high-minded debate being echoed by Alistair Darling and the uber-unionists. One ploy Darling can be relied on is to bore everyone senseless over the debate while his underling big Blair McDougall and his “bettertogether” muckers get down and dirty in the gutter with Blair Jenkins and co of the Yes lot.

My money would be on Big Blair rather than wee skinny Blair for that one. But whether one likes it or not, it is in the interests of the unionsts to lower the tone.”

(Wings Over Scotland accepts no responsibility for the grammatical or literary failings of either Mr Pia or the Courier’s sub-editors, if it still has any.)

We’re inescapably reminded by Pia’s comments of an oft-quoted (and -misquoted) piece of wisdom that’s most commonly attributed to George Bernard Shaw: “I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.”

24 to “Ploughing the depths”

  1. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    And yes, I did mean to say “ploughing”, not “plumbing”.

    Reply
  2. Juteman says:

    “I am not a nationalist, and i am not a unionist.”
     Really?

    Reply
  3. Erchie says:

    I came to the conclusion that there is no desire for a debate from Better Together, who are basically run by Labour on a day to day basis.

    They want to drag everything down, counting on the electorate to say “a plague on both your houses” and with the turnout is dire or the middle of the road folk don’t turn out, giving the “NO!” crowd the victory.

    It’s galling but given such a biased press it’s a hard tqactic to counter save by presenting as much dignity as you can retain, which doesn’t always work 

    Reply
  4. Vronsky says:

    I laughed out loud at the strap line: ‘Political analysis by Simon Pia’.  Still giggling, actually.

    Reply
  5. Juteman says:

    Both my parents still buy the Courier everyday. I think it’s an age and habit thing. Both were Labour voters until about 10 years ago, then they both started voting SNP. My dad has always been a YES, but my mum was yet to be convinced until a little while ago. 
     I started pointing out to them that various ‘independent media’ folk were actually connected to unionist parties, or married to unionist politicians. Bit by bit, my mothers attitude changed. When she realised she was being lied to, and taken for a fool, she turned. Now, when i visit, i’m often asked “did you read what that lying so and so was saying yesterday?”

    So how do we counter this? By pointing out to folk who these so called ‘independant’ journalists, TV presenters, experts etc, really are, and their incestuous relationship to political parties. It needs to be done every day, and every time a story is discussed at home, or in the workplace.

    Reply
  6. Peter A Bell says:

    Here’s the text of the article – link to docs.google.com

    Reply
  7. Don McC says:

    “They want to drag everything down, counting on the electorate to say “a plague on both your houses” and with the turnout is dire or the middle of the road folk don’t turn out, giving the “NO!” crowd the victory.”

    This, Erchie, is exactly the tactic.  The antis know that they can’t guarantee a “no” vote (and a “yes” vote is becoming increasingly likely despite what “opinion polls” predict) so they’re pinning their hopes on being able to rubbish a “Yes” vote.  A close “yes” victory with less than a 60% turnout?  How is that a vote for independence?  It’s why they aren’t even bothering with a positive argument (beyond the “Union makes us all £1.00 a year better off [assuming oil is $20 a barrel]”).

    Reply
  8. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    ““I am not a nationalist, and i am not a unionist.”
     Really?”

    I imagine he’ll be going for the “I’m a devolutionist” line or some variant thereof.

    Reply
  9. Cuphook says:

     
    ‘My money’s on Big Blair rather than wee skinny Blair’.
     
    What is the Unionist obsession with weight? We’re continually told that independence will fail because Alex Salmond is fat and now we are told that it will fail because Blair Jenkins is skinny. Is there an optimum weight required for the ability to deliver on your political promise?
     
    Maybe you should be telling us the BMI of everyone you report on so that we can get a better idea of their abilities.

    Reply
  10. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Here’s the text of the article – link to docs.google.com

    Good work, but you’ve left out “tell” in the last line.

    Reply
  11. FreddieThreepwood says:

    @ Juteman

    Speaking of so-called independent journalists … I watched the Review Show last night with Kirsty ‘John Smith House’ Wark interviewing Billy Connolly and yes, despite the fact the subject matter appeared to be his life and work, she couldn’t resist asking him how he would vote in 2014 – knowing perfectly well the answer in advance. Sure enough, the auld dope trots out his ‘all politicians are idiots/we should all be coming closer together, not further apart’ off the point line.
    Cue big grin from Wark. Job done.
     

    Reply
  12. balgayboy says:

    My son-in-law was/is a labour voter but was not very interested in politics and had not made many comments or views regarding the upcoming referendum previously. We went for a walk with my grandchildren on new years day and I was pleasantly surprised to hear him raise the subject of the 2014 referendum and how dismayed he was with the negativity spouted by the media and the pro-union party’s. i had never tried to persuade him previously as he is his own man but his comments gladdened my heart that level headed people are aware of the MSM negativity and feel insulted by it as well. People will see through this pro-union scaremongering.

    Reply
  13. BillyBigBaws says:

    I think I used to argue with Simon Pia’s brother on Facebook.  He was a nice enough guy.
     

    Reply
  14. Peter A Bell says:

    Rev Stu
    Sorry about the missing word. Mr Pringle’s image was a bit of a challenge even for the high-end OCR I use.

    Reply
  15. Derick says:

    balgayboy –  point your son in law at Labour for Independence, or Labour voters for Independence on Facebook.
    Am I the only person that thinks Celts for Independence fb with all the Irish Republican emphasis is a false flag operation?

    Reply
  16. dadsarmy says:

    Latest story in the Herald: “Shots fired at police in latest Union Flag row”.

    And from Friday’s Herald: “Union flag protesters ready to target Sturgeon”.

    I seriously think she should get police protection.

    Reply
  17. Juteman says:

    @Derick
    There is also a ‘Rangers fans for independence’ Facebook site.

    Reply
  18. thomas says:

    @freddie threepwood

    aye freddie

    i used tae like billy connolly but fur years now the big yin  his jist gave me the boak.

    independance fur ireland but no the country o his birth.

     

    Reply
  19. Derick says:

    There is indeed a Rangers fans for Scottish Independence site – good on them.  There is a Celtic Fans for Scottish Independence – which is a genuine site and all round good guys.
    The one I am concerned about is Celts for Independence 
    link to facebook.com
    Seems to post a lot of Irish Republican/IRA stuff.  Can’t see how that is supposed to be helping obtain a Yes vote
     

    Reply
  20. jake says:

    Pia, pia, piano
    piano, piano.

    Pia, pia, piano
    pia, Pia NO

    Reply
  21. Morag says:

    Cool, Jake!

    Reply
  22. Cameron says:

    Why do people still think that William “Billy” Connolly, Jr., CBE, is still a man of the people. Where does he live and where does he pay his taxes?

    Reply
    • Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Why do people still think that William “Billy” Connolly, Jr., CBE, is still a man of the people”

      I’m not sure anyone other than his media pals DOES think that.

      Reply
  23. Macart says:

    Well if anyone should know about campaigning tricks and spin…… Mr Pia certainly has the right CV. As for Blair V Blair? I reckon he may be underestimating Blair Jenkins just a tad. I don’t think he would get into that sty in the first place Rev. Better to feed the pigs from a distance, run them round a bit to keep em in good trim and make bacon…………….. mmmmmmm bacon. 🙂

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a thing that exists.

    Stats: 6,778 Posts, 1,220,155 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • Scot Finlayson on Holiday Relief: “What is wrong with this British Labour government, Starving kids, freezing pensioners, allowing the mass rape of young girls, assisted…Jun 17, 22:23
    • James on Let’s Not Make Some Plans: “Voting for me? Dunno what planet you’re on, George. I ditched my membership in 2018 when the missing money/Salmond stitch…Jun 17, 21:56
    • George Ferguson on Let’s Not Make Some Plans: “@James An SNP thug. Nuf said. When you come up with intelligent policies I will start voting for you again.…Jun 17, 21:20
    • James on Let’s Not Make Some Plans: “Ah. Freeport Forbes supporter eh? ‘nuf said.Jun 17, 20:58
    • George Ferguson on Let’s Not Make Some Plans: “@James 8:26pm According to Grok I am an Architect from Bristol. Of course I think freeports is an opportunity just…Jun 17, 20:51
    • sarah on Holiday Relief: “Reading some of Iain Lawson’s blog articles today showed what quality of thinking and personality is missing from the SNP.…Jun 17, 20:32
    • James on Let’s Not Make Some Plans: “Are you the same George Ferguson who bigs up Freeports?Jun 17, 20:26
    • agent x on Holiday Relief: “How much has the Scotland 2050 thing cost and who is paying for it?Jun 17, 20:17
    • George Ferguson on Let’s Not Make Some Plans: “@Hatey McHateface 7:25pm And the tradegy is my wife was friendly with the Murkle cluster. Not long married I represented…Jun 17, 19:59
    • agent x on Holiday Relief: ““Orkney Islands Council has accepted it must remain part of the UK – after spending two years exploring opportunities for…Jun 17, 19:52
    • Hatey McHateface on Holiday Relief: ““preferred the presenter to be a bit more serious” Hmmm. Not with a name like Randy Credico. That handle will…Jun 17, 19:46
    • Chas on Holiday Relief: “783 times. I confess, I may have missed a few as I am not on here every day. Most people…Jun 17, 19:37
    • Hatey McHateface on Holiday Relief: “Wouldn’t a truly representative Scottish Citizen’s Convention reflect Scottish society at large – 52% opposed to Indy? That being the…Jun 17, 19:30
    • Hatey McHateface on Let’s Not Make Some Plans: “James will still be able to grasp his chipolata in the dark. That’s all that matters to him.Jun 17, 19:25
    • Hatey McHateface on Holiday Relief: “Nah. It’s them that’s supposed to laugh at you. You’ll never reach Step 3 if you’re doing Step 2 all…Jun 17, 19:20
    • sarah on Holiday Relief: “Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp talking a lot of sense in an email this evening. He says that SNP need to refocus on…Jun 17, 19:11
    • agent x on Holiday Relief: “I don’t think that Swinney’s I have a dream speech will knock Rev. Martin Luther King Jr’s speech off top…Jun 17, 18:36
    • Young Lochinvar on Holiday Relief: “Indeed, or that of sneaky Pete and the 600 grand?Jun 17, 18:25
    • twathater on Holiday Relief: “And yet the cult will gorge on this cold wattery porridge as if they were attending a banquet of the…Jun 17, 18:12
    • Onlooker on Holiday Relief: “How’s the Salmond case coming along?Jun 17, 17:56
    • George Ferguson on Let’s Not Make Some Plans: “@James 5:07pm Easy if you understand how the National Grid works. You want to live in the dark and that…Jun 17, 17:22
    • Alf Baird on Holiday Relief: “Yes 100%, I see Indyscotnews now offers the audio in program entitled: ‘WBAI New York: ‘Live On The Fly’ with…Jun 17, 17:14
    • James on Let’s Not Make Some Plans: “But don’t we export 8Gw of leccy 24/7 as it is? Why on earth would we want a nuclear power…Jun 17, 17:07
    • 100%Yes on Holiday Relief: “Hi Alf, was listening to Craig Murray, Sara Salyers and yourself on Randy Credico radio talk show, well done all…Jun 17, 16:58
    • George Ferguson on Let’s Not Make Some Plans: “@Mary B 11:26pm You should been at the EDRP Inquiry in Caithness. The cluster theory was well and truly debunked…Jun 17, 16:45
    • 100%Yes on Holiday Relief: “Here is the reality the SNP mantra is 2050 before we think about Independence again and when we look back,…Jun 17, 16:17
    • Cactus on Holiday Relief: “First they ignore you… Then you laugh at them… Then you win.Jun 17, 16:00
    • Mark Beggan on Holiday Relief: “How to run a successful Colony. Page One. Chapter one. 1.Eliminate the intelligentsia. 2. Control all communication. 3. Play each…Jun 17, 15:57
    • TURABDIN on Holiday Relief: “HOW TO SPOT «ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE», marked tendency to phrasal repetition. The AI algorithm having no consciousness hasn’t a clue what…Jun 17, 15:56
    • David on Holiday Relief: “He can’t even get the Saltire up on public buildings never mind Scottish Independence. And who could forget he desecrated…Jun 17, 15:29
  • A tall tale



↑ Top