The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Ploughing the depths

Posted on January 05, 2013 by

We’ve been warning for a while now that the independence debate is likely to get uglier before it gets prettier this year, despite the protestations of the No camp that they want a mature and respectful discussion. The bleaker reality, however, is revealed by former Labour spin doctor Simon Pia in today’s Dundee Courier.

His column “The Long And Winding Road To 2014” isn’t online as far as we can tell, but the SNP’s Kevin Pringle kindly took a snapshot of the piece for us. You can click on the image above to read the whole thing, but one passage in particular is revealing when it comes to what we should expect in the next 18 months.

“What is particularly amusing is hearing the Nats appeal for a high-minded debate being echoed by Alistair Darling and the uber-unionists. One ploy Darling can be relied on is to bore everyone senseless over the debate while his underling big Blair McDougall and his “bettertogether” muckers get down and dirty in the gutter with Blair Jenkins and co of the Yes lot.

My money would be on Big Blair rather than wee skinny Blair for that one. But whether one likes it or not, it is in the interests of the unionsts to lower the tone.”

(Wings Over Scotland accepts no responsibility for the grammatical or literary failings of either Mr Pia or the Courier’s sub-editors, if it still has any.)

We’re inescapably reminded by Pia’s comments of an oft-quoted (and -misquoted) piece of wisdom that’s most commonly attributed to George Bernard Shaw: “I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.”

24 to “Ploughing the depths”

  1. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    And yes, I did mean to say “ploughing”, not “plumbing”.

    Reply
  2. Juteman says:

    “I am not a nationalist, and i am not a unionist.”
     Really?

    Reply
  3. Erchie says:

    I came to the conclusion that there is no desire for a debate from Better Together, who are basically run by Labour on a day to day basis.

    They want to drag everything down, counting on the electorate to say “a plague on both your houses” and with the turnout is dire or the middle of the road folk don’t turn out, giving the “NO!” crowd the victory.

    It’s galling but given such a biased press it’s a hard tqactic to counter save by presenting as much dignity as you can retain, which doesn’t always work 

    Reply
  4. Vronsky says:

    I laughed out loud at the strap line: ‘Political analysis by Simon Pia’.  Still giggling, actually.

    Reply
  5. Juteman says:

    Both my parents still buy the Courier everyday. I think it’s an age and habit thing. Both were Labour voters until about 10 years ago, then they both started voting SNP. My dad has always been a YES, but my mum was yet to be convinced until a little while ago. 
     I started pointing out to them that various ‘independent media’ folk were actually connected to unionist parties, or married to unionist politicians. Bit by bit, my mothers attitude changed. When she realised she was being lied to, and taken for a fool, she turned. Now, when i visit, i’m often asked “did you read what that lying so and so was saying yesterday?”

    So how do we counter this? By pointing out to folk who these so called ‘independant’ journalists, TV presenters, experts etc, really are, and their incestuous relationship to political parties. It needs to be done every day, and every time a story is discussed at home, or in the workplace.

    Reply
  6. Peter A Bell says:

    Here’s the text of the article – link to docs.google.com

    Reply
  7. Don McC says:

    “They want to drag everything down, counting on the electorate to say “a plague on both your houses” and with the turnout is dire or the middle of the road folk don’t turn out, giving the “NO!” crowd the victory.”

    This, Erchie, is exactly the tactic.  The antis know that they can’t guarantee a “no” vote (and a “yes” vote is becoming increasingly likely despite what “opinion polls” predict) so they’re pinning their hopes on being able to rubbish a “Yes” vote.  A close “yes” victory with less than a 60% turnout?  How is that a vote for independence?  It’s why they aren’t even bothering with a positive argument (beyond the “Union makes us all £1.00 a year better off [assuming oil is $20 a barrel]”).

    Reply
  8. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    ““I am not a nationalist, and i am not a unionist.”
     Really?”

    I imagine he’ll be going for the “I’m a devolutionist” line or some variant thereof.

    Reply
  9. Cuphook says:

     
    ‘My money’s on Big Blair rather than wee skinny Blair’.
     
    What is the Unionist obsession with weight? We’re continually told that independence will fail because Alex Salmond is fat and now we are told that it will fail because Blair Jenkins is skinny. Is there an optimum weight required for the ability to deliver on your political promise?
     
    Maybe you should be telling us the BMI of everyone you report on so that we can get a better idea of their abilities.

    Reply
  10. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Here’s the text of the article – link to docs.google.com

    Good work, but you’ve left out “tell” in the last line.

    Reply
  11. FreddieThreepwood says:

    @ Juteman

    Speaking of so-called independent journalists … I watched the Review Show last night with Kirsty ‘John Smith House’ Wark interviewing Billy Connolly and yes, despite the fact the subject matter appeared to be his life and work, she couldn’t resist asking him how he would vote in 2014 – knowing perfectly well the answer in advance. Sure enough, the auld dope trots out his ‘all politicians are idiots/we should all be coming closer together, not further apart’ off the point line.
    Cue big grin from Wark. Job done.
     

    Reply
  12. balgayboy says:

    My son-in-law was/is a labour voter but was not very interested in politics and had not made many comments or views regarding the upcoming referendum previously. We went for a walk with my grandchildren on new years day and I was pleasantly surprised to hear him raise the subject of the 2014 referendum and how dismayed he was with the negativity spouted by the media and the pro-union party’s. i had never tried to persuade him previously as he is his own man but his comments gladdened my heart that level headed people are aware of the MSM negativity and feel insulted by it as well. People will see through this pro-union scaremongering.

    Reply
  13. BillyBigBaws says:

    I think I used to argue with Simon Pia’s brother on Facebook.  He was a nice enough guy.
     

    Reply
  14. Peter A Bell says:

    Rev Stu
    Sorry about the missing word. Mr Pringle’s image was a bit of a challenge even for the high-end OCR I use.

    Reply
  15. Derick says:

    balgayboy –  point your son in law at Labour for Independence, or Labour voters for Independence on Facebook.
    Am I the only person that thinks Celts for Independence fb with all the Irish Republican emphasis is a false flag operation?

    Reply
  16. dadsarmy says:

    Latest story in the Herald: “Shots fired at police in latest Union Flag row”.

    And from Friday’s Herald: “Union flag protesters ready to target Sturgeon”.

    I seriously think she should get police protection.

    Reply
  17. Juteman says:

    @Derick
    There is also a ‘Rangers fans for independence’ Facebook site.

    Reply
  18. thomas says:

    @freddie threepwood

    aye freddie

    i used tae like billy connolly but fur years now the big yin  his jist gave me the boak.

    independance fur ireland but no the country o his birth.

     

    Reply
  19. Derick says:

    There is indeed a Rangers fans for Scottish Independence site – good on them.  There is a Celtic Fans for Scottish Independence – which is a genuine site and all round good guys.
    The one I am concerned about is Celts for Independence 
    link to facebook.com
    Seems to post a lot of Irish Republican/IRA stuff.  Can’t see how that is supposed to be helping obtain a Yes vote
     

    Reply
  20. jake says:

    Pia, pia, piano
    piano, piano.

    Pia, pia, piano
    pia, Pia NO

    Reply
  21. Morag says:

    Cool, Jake!

    Reply
  22. Cameron says:

    Why do people still think that William “Billy” Connolly, Jr., CBE, is still a man of the people. Where does he live and where does he pay his taxes?

    Reply
    • Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Why do people still think that William “Billy” Connolly, Jr., CBE, is still a man of the people”

      I’m not sure anyone other than his media pals DOES think that.

      Reply
  23. Macart says:

    Well if anyone should know about campaigning tricks and spin…… Mr Pia certainly has the right CV. As for Blair V Blair? I reckon he may be underestimating Blair Jenkins just a tad. I don’t think he would get into that sty in the first place Rev. Better to feed the pigs from a distance, run them round a bit to keep em in good trim and make bacon…………….. mmmmmmm bacon. 🙂

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a thing that exists.

    Stats: 6,959 Posts, 1,247,823 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • twathater on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Unfortunately when governments and politicians IGNORE the wishes and concerns of the electorate and continue to treat voters with contempt…Jul 28, 02:42
    • Young Lochinvar on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “AI Dun @ 7.04 And why does that statement seem to sit so very very comfortably with you, site pearl…Jul 28, 01:26
    • Graf Midgehunter on The Nobodies: “You will never need an excuse to show a photo of Monica Bellucci..! And anyway, it’ll help cleanse the site…Jul 28, 00:30
    • Oneliner on The Nobodies: “I think that his brother adopted the same attitude to VATJul 28, 00:27
    • Ex President Xiden on The Nobodies: “I remember Sarwar when asked to comment on his hypocrisy of fronting a party advocating the abolishment of private education…Jul 27, 23:06
    • Young Lochinvar on The Nobodies: “Well said Dan.Jul 27, 22:32
    • willie on The Nobodies: “The X link is to a parody of the US police detective Lieutenant Columbo investigating Nicola Sturgeon. Peppered with real…Jul 27, 21:47
    • Spartan 117 on The Nobodies: ““Scottish” Labour are irrelevant and will remain so forever more.Jul 27, 21:24
    • Hatey McHateface on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “And the Scots for ‘doctrinal racism’ is …Jul 27, 20:26
    • 100%Yes on The Nobodies: “Its a pity when the Redcoats went to their country’s they didn’t have an option. Lets all turn a blind…Jul 27, 20:24
    • Hatey McHateface on The Nobodies: “Calm down. It’s just DEI. It won’t personally affect you. Be much more concerned by the DEI appointments in your…Jul 27, 20:20
    • Hatey McHateface on The Nobodies: “Somebody defo told somebody to piss off.Jul 27, 20:16
    • Mark Beggan on The Nobodies: “Monica Bellucci was at my door again last night with a red rose. I told her to piss off.Jul 27, 20:06
    • Hatey McHateface on The Nobodies: “I think any politician who could fix period poverty will find running the country a dawdle by comparison. Of course,…Jul 27, 20:03
    • diabloandco on The Nobodies: “Well put!!Jul 27, 19:56
    • Owen Mullions on The Nobodies: “It’s just an AI video of Sturgeon being investigated by Columbo. Quite funny but sadly not happening in the real…Jul 27, 19:49
    • Chas on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “My social status is just fine Sam however I can readily understand why yours is on the floor. As to…Jul 27, 19:31
    • Aidan on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Most of that list (primarily elderly academics) will be long-since retired by the time there is any chance of Scotland…Jul 27, 19:04
    • 100%Yes on The Nobodies: “Willie, I don’t have a X account so whats the breaking news?Jul 27, 18:41
    • DaveL on The Nobodies: “Strangely enough I was trying to think of that Labour guy’s name the other day, I was pretty sure it…Jul 27, 18:29
    • Effijy on The Nobodies: “I think this is the 19th Change of leadership for London’s North Accounting Office, sometimes referred to as Scotland not…Jul 27, 18:27
    • Dan on The Nobodies: “Who really cares about the mainstream “Scottish” political parties pissing about in the poundshop devolved Parliament, they just seem to…Jul 27, 18:27
    • Joan Savage on The Nobodies: “Excellent commentJul 27, 18:19
    • Northcode on The Nobodies: ““Number 10 North” is a slogan, not a shift in power. A new office in Manchester doesn’t rebalance the constitution……Jul 27, 18:10
    • Craig on The Nobodies: “Great picture, made reading the article much more interesting. ?Jul 27, 18:10
    • willie on The Nobodies: “It’ll not be the House of Lords that Nicola Sturgeon will be going to with US detective Columbo on the…Jul 27, 18:06
    • Nicky T Naquetti on The Nobodies: “If the SNP actually wanted independence, instead of simply keeping their jobs for the next 4 or 5 years -…Jul 27, 18:06
    • sam on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Mair shite from Chas who, like me, has a deep seated need to feel a rise in social status. Here’s…Jul 27, 18:04
    • 100%Yes on The Nobodies: “Theirs a lot in the SNP who are envious that they haven’t been selected to go into the house of…Jul 27, 17:40
    • Andrea on The Nobodies: “I said this before, but I think it is worth repeating, who would want to be in the SP? OK,…Jul 27, 17:24
  • A tall tale



↑ Top