On Tape
We thought readers might possibly like to hear the unexpurgated audio of our interview with The Times this week, so that they could judge the tone of our “expletive-ridden condemnations” and whatnot for themselves.
Other than a few bits of minor tidying-up – such as me umming and aahing trying to remember the name of a song, or when the manager came round to ask if we wanted more drinks – this is the whole of the “official” interview.
(In conversation with Kenny Farquharson of The Times, 1 August 2019)
.
The “official” there is as opposed to the 15-20 minutes after the recording devices were switched off that we continued chatting for, during which I tried once more to bring up the point I make near the end about Kezia Dugdale, but the paper’s interviewer Kenny Farquharson steadfastly refused to be drawn into any sort of comment on the relative moralities of swearing a bit on Twitter versus dumping your constituents for a TV show or cheating your dead best friend’s charity out of £50,000.
(He also repeatedly deflected the question of whether the person who tells a lie or the person who reveals it is to blame for people being angry when they find out about it.)
That unrecorded quarter-hour or so had a theme which discernibly underpinned the interview proper too, in the shape of KF’s wish for a Utopian age of consensus politics in a devolved Scotland where good politicians with the best of intentions were nice to each other and worked together to pass laws everyone agreed on.
He seemed to feel that dream is mainly threatened by the divisive partisan vilery which was invented in 2011 by Wings Over Scotland, prior to which time everyone involved in politics was honourable, constructive, polite and lovely.
His view appeared to be that rather than being opposed to independence per se, he couldn’t see how such a state could be reached via a close-run and inevitably bitterly-fought referendum, whereas mine is that I don’t see a way anything remotely like it can ever be achieved until the constitutional question is resolved once and for all, either with a Yes victory or a resounding second defeat.
Particularly in the wake of Brexit, independence is simply still unfinished business, and no amount of putting your fingers in your ears and praying for a nice cosy halfway-house federalism that’s never going to happen is going to fix anything.
But anyway – if you’ve got the appetite for another bout of listening to me rambling on about stuff for ages, there it is.
Pishin wi rain,
might as well put the kettle on and take a listen.
.
Stuart I enjoy listening to you ramble. In fact your WORTS rambling is better than the BEST speeches of Lan/Lib?con party leaders.
By the way, when are you and Alex Salmond going to start a regular spot on his television programme.
Pure Scottish Gold.
I think the only way anyone with a view to Independence can
Deal with UK Media is to ask them what they want to know from you
And they can publish your answers in their entirety or not at all.
Their job depends on lies and distortion just the same as those they
Serve in Westminster.
Ach, these Britnats cannae Handel baroque insults.
You *again*?
This is becoming a bit of a habit – next thing we know you’ll be launching a political party 😀
The BBC is carrying a complete lie about you forming party “to take on the SNP” on its online news site.
This is being repeated across the media and will be the next step in their effort to destroy the independence momentum.
As a matter of interst I beleive strongly in the formation of an independence coalition to contest the list seats (if we get to another Scottish GE not already independent) and have been saying so for some time.
There is considerable impatience in the SNP but very little unrest and much of such is being promoted by pretend friends who have infiltrated and who are getting support from some of our own who need a good kick up the arse.
Be very careful who we trust – no matter how high they are or have been in our army.
Well, I see little sign of the alleged “slavishly loyal and sometimes suggestible” following on here. (Has Farq actually spent more than a minute casting a glance over this way? Does he have even a clue of the difference between the Twitter version and the website?) I guess he is getting us confused with the once-members of (his beloved?) Labour Party.
Now we’re all much more aware and much less likely to fall for false promises and meaningless sweet talk about bettertogetherness.
Happy Guilt Free Sunday,Stu. Loved the interview.
I could add that a very good friend who has watched the British State with a sharp eye for much of his life once said to me and I paraphrase
“You have to be very highly ranked and highly regarded in an organisation/movement/party before you can do it maximum damage.”
He also insisted they “have something” on many of their servants
Anybody that imagines that that process has been suspended re the SNP and the independence campaign is seriously naive.
And anybody that imagines that Nicola Sturgeon is naive is deluded.
Journalists are always insecure in the company of men who wear collarless white shirts. 🙂
Dave McEwan Hill @ 15:57,
The BritNat media should be careful for what they wish. Their ever-predictable, lazy and pathetic rewriting of strategy as “taking on the SNP” could easily backfire. Firstly by making the SNP appear more respectable to the hesitant, and secondly by giving everyone the distinct impression that popular sentiment in favour of independence is becoming so strong that it can support more than one political party.
As we all know, there is a segment of the population for whom “nothing succeeds like success”, and if our main difficulty is only a certain lack of public self-confidence, demonstrating to all-and-sundry that an independence surge is on its way is not the best strategy for saving this damned Union.
Not sure what’s worse
Short sentences aimed at thick people or failing to put a double space between said stupid short sentences
Dave McEwan Hill @ 16:08,
Was something like that not attempted on Stewart Hosie?
Still, I think too much is being made of the British State bogeyman. When a moveent is on the margins, it is indeed vulnerable to “interference”. But when popular sentiment for a cause exceeds 50% and rising, only a fool would fail to recognise that the game’s up. And the spooks are not fools. I have a feeling that is what is beginning to happen to the English Establishment now. They are beginning to suffer their own divisions and demoralisation, and consequently give up on us as a lost cause.
Which is why we shouldn’t wait too long to give them any opportunity to recover. Hit them hard while they’re on the ropes, not wait till after the next interval.
The big lie I mentioned in my post at 3.57 has now been taken down
Dave McEwan Hilll
Please give me the names . I’ll no tell anyone.
Ps re the interview Farquhason leads you on Rev. Re Twitter abuse If abusive, aren’t we just gifting them a goal?
The fact you don’t give a f doesn’t mean the movement cannot be harmed.
His persistent deflection on the KD issue was/is very telling indeed. Anyone inside the bubble must be respected and lauded, irrespective of how useless they are, or how badly they behave. Anyone who threatens to burst the bubble must be destroyed at all costs – truth does not come into it – and need not even be discussed.
Otherwise, fascinating. Or boring – is someone being honest, logical and consistent all that unusual? Not in my world, but seems Kenny lacks familiarity with it. Poor chap.
Well done, I think that interview was what the civil service (Yes Minister) would describe as “frank 🙂
Best get some ice for the bite marks on your tongue 😀
@Dave McEwan Hill
No still up but moved to the politics page.
Sorry O/T
I was having a look at things on the papers and came across this one,something to keep when the MSN start peddling the lie that Scotland is a subsidy junkie.I know it was from 2011 but it still stands.
link to newstatesman.com
Vestas @ 17:07,
“Full and frank” is the phrase, I seem to recall.
Isn’t it the job of a professional journalist to inquire of a position rather than defend their own? Not in Scotland, it would seem. Nice try though of Stu to turn the tables somewhat on one of them…
Listened to all of that and couldn’t help but feel you were being set-up. All the way through, I got an over-riding sense that the ‘journo’ was pretending to be your mate, whilst looking for ways to exploit you for his own ends. I guess that’s just what they do.
iainmore @ 17:18,
F-off, furious false flag flyer.
#Dave McEwan Hill at 5:02 pm
It’s still there.
link to bbc.co.uk
@ Robert J. Sutherland 5:26 pm :
“Vestas @ 17:07,
“Full and frank” is the phrase, I seem to recall.”
“Frank to the point of direct” is how Bernard described it IIRC 🙂
Way off theme, apologies, but this piece on the World Bank and its very questionable habits is worth a note.
link to aljazeera.com
The World Bank, initially financed logging in Amazonia and Indonesia and the palm oil business among other nasty things. An international org. an independent Scotland ought to steer well clear of or at the very least keep out of range.
Jings!
“On GMS tomorrow at 07:30” says Stu. 🙂
Vestas @ 17:40,
I was thinking of conventional diplomacy-speak, not of the TV show.
I’m shaky on cultural references, as evidenced by my recent debacle over the “infamy” quote. =grin=
mr thms at 5.29
I see. It’s off the TV but still on the web page,
@ Robert J. Sutherland 6:03 pm :
“Vestas @ 17:40,
I was thinking of conventional diplomacy-speak, not of the TV show.
I’m shaky on cultural references, as evidenced by my recent debacle over the “infamy” quote. =grin=”
It was an episode where Humphrey had a meeting with the cabinet secretary. Bernard descibed it as :
frank to the point of direct, he even suggested Sir Humphrey might not be “sound”.
I’m pretty sure the establishment view Stu as “unsound”, its just amusing (for me anyway) to hear the “tape” of them saying so.
Interesting hearing the interviewer taking 15 minutes trying to soften you up until he felt ready to dig for dirt.
KF is a poor interviewer. He repeatedly failed to disguise his complete disinterest in most of what you had to say.
And of course he was clearly fishing for sound bites that undoubtedly will be used out of context, and sadly even some within context.
Nothing like the decent interviewing you enjoyed with Mr Salmond.
PS Rev. I for one, am not bored nor do I feel the need to turn on anyone in the Independence movement.
The folk who voted No do not make me cringe. Unkind slating of other folks’s choices do.
And I do see Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP and their supporters all working very very hard to secure Independence for Scotland. We are on our road to Independence and constantly gaining ground. Thanks to the SNP 🙂
Felt you gave him what he was looking for with your comments on Dugdale.
Upto that point he didn’t have much to go on to protay you in a negative way.
I think baroque is justifiable given the trying times but as for those rococo baistarts….
The matters of “morality” and “taste” are central to the political process and significant obstacles to achieving rational jurisprudence and the delivery of justice (see “Your Majesty” v Dugdale). I just wish Scotland’s middle-class would get over their priggishness and grow a pair, though I think that is beginning to happen. Much to the chagrin of BritNat hacks.
I’ve already pointed to the psychology of the class dynamics of political engagement, so here’s a bit of International Relations Theory on the subject.
I hope Dugdale is taking notes.
link to pdfs.semanticscholar.org
Robert J. Sutherland says:
11 August, 2019 at 5:29 pm
iainmore @ 17:18,
F-off, furious false flag flyer.
Up yours Yoon apologist. That ("Quizmaster" - Ed) Farquharson shouldn’t be given any oxygen at least not any that we have to share with them.
And at 7.30 in the morning
Feel free to tell it like it is, Stu.
link to twitter.com
And here’s a bit of political psychology on the matter.
From Social to Political Identity: A Critical Examination of Social Identity Theory
link to researchgate.net
Translation—–he’s a small ,cold and badly dressed man.
OK but I like him anyway!!!
Labour arse meet Labour elbow.
“Labour deputy leader Tom Watson of the Labour Party has clashed with the shadow chancellor over a second Scottish independence referendum.
Mr Watson said on Sunday night Labour would strongly oppose a second vote following remarks made by John McDonnell, who said the party would not block proposals should they be put forward by Holyrood.”
link to archive.fo
Arthur Stramash has had a preview of Stu’s interview tomorrow on GMS. No need to get up early to tune in:
“Is it not divisive to start a new party? Many would see it as undermining the SNP”
“Let me explain…”
“But you are starting a new party?”
“The idea is…”
“So you don’t deny undermining the SNP?”
“I didn’t say…”
“Thank you. That was controversial blogger Stuart Campbell.”
link to twitter.com
Rainy day so stuck indoors and found the time to listen to the recording.
Found it particularly engaging listening. Somewhat miffed that Kenny Farquharson’s written article managed to portray who and what Stuart is about in the way he did based on the conversation I just listened to.
I guess that could just be because of his personal views and employer’s editorial agenda, or down to a couple of what I picked up as uncomfortable moments Kenny seemed to find himself in after Stuart’s words on facts and journalistic impartiality at 48min mark, and again at 1hr mark when Kdug is discussed.
One thing which emerges from this conversation is the simple observation that of the two people involved, Stu comes over, by a mile, as the really clever and articulate of the two.
So much for the the much vaunted Times own Kenny Farquharson!
Quite simply,Farquharson lost every argument he put!
In the wake of the latest news on Stop and Search and increasing prison places (in a State which already locks up more people than anywhere else in Europe) I fear the worst.
if the so-called parliamentary democracy in which we are alleged to live cannot stop this madness then we in Scotland should batten down the hatches, because things are about to get dramatically worse.
Robert J Sutherland@5.29pm
Now now Mr Sutherland – hardly a good example of honest debate. If you ask others to follow certain standards I would suggest you will have more success if you take your own advice.
Or alternatively just don’t preach to others standards you cannot follow.
To avoid any doubt this is not a defence of the recipient of your ire. Just noting your inconsistency.
I have difficulty with trusting any journalist from the MSM or BBC to accurately portray any indy supporter and especially SC, they are too busy watching their backs and trying to keep their jobs at all costs by towing the publisher/party line and truth has nothing to do with it. They have their own agenda.
KF was especially rattled at the suggestion the journalists were not doing their jobs properly with research and valid linked sources and he like others is jealous of the success of Wings and the fact that it does print the truth because that is what we wingers need and expect wings to do. They know KD should never have got away with what she did, even using her position in Holyrood for her own ends but they will not take on the established order. More fool them.
For far too long politicians have been able to appease certain audiences and get away with it – think the dear JB in a town hall and then saying the opposite somewhere else and she is not alone Labour have survived on lies for a very long time.
Gordon Brown’s Big Lies:
1. “Nationalism is now driving British politics.”
Truth : it’s the survival of the English Establishment which is driving English politics.
2.” the world’s most successful multinational state” meaning the UK.
Truth: the UK is only successful for the British Establishment and the Ruling Class. The UK is a disaster for Scotland, Wales, and the Republican population of Northern Ireland.
3.”and the UK, once admired around the world for an understated but comfortably unifying Britishness that was inclusive, outward-looking, tolerant and ultimately pragmatic”.
Truth: the English Establishment is one of the most evil enterprises in the history of Western Civilisation, guilty of the most heinous crimes in its assembly of the Colonies of the so-called ‘British Empire’.
4. “As this hardline nationalism tightens its grip”
Truth: There is no hardline Nationalism in Scotland whatsoever. In England, yes.
5. “But if the UK pound, the UK customs union and the UK single market all go, this desire for hard – not soft – separatism ignores the hundreds of thousands of jobs at risk of going too.
Truth: None of this is evenly remotely true. It’s a lie because Scotland is enormously wealthy thanks to its oil, gas & renewable energy, its fisheries, agriculture, and Whisky & Gin industries – plus so much more.
6. “As the Second World War ended, George Orwell made a distinction between patriots who instinctively love their country and the opposite, a political nationalism that he defined as “power hunger tempered by self-deception”. He noted its defining features: unreality about the country’s prospects; introversion bordering on the xenophobic; and hate-filled obsessiveness that treats people solely in terms of their loyalty and utility. Orwell argued passionately that the descent into a narrow, chauvinistic nationalism could be halted only by what he called “moral effort”.
Truth: none of this exists in Scotland. In England perhaps. This is Brown doing what he’s been paid for by the English Establishment – spreading lies hoping to brainwash an already brainwashed minority of the British electorate. You can fool some of the people all of the time….
7.” In our times, this means we must rediscover the age-old virtues of empathy, solidarity across borders, reciprocity between nations and co-operation rather than conflict. These precious ideals – and a tolerant, inclusive and outward-looking Britishness –
Truth: England’s age old ‘virtues’ are treachery, invasion, oppression, genocide, suppression, xenophobia, racism, superiority, entitlement and utter contempt, plus exploitation on a base of deception through endless lying and empty promises.
Gordon Brown – serial liar and political criminal.
OT but related to yoon hacks spouting mince. re. Alex Massie on the UK’s ‘near-death experience’ of the 2014 indy ref. The man’s a moron, zombies are not living beings, so can not have near-death experiences. They’ve already died so experience death fully. They are no longer functioning beings. Much like Brexitania.
@manandboy at 8.01pm
Spot on regarding Brown.
Serial Unionist liar regarding Scotland and its potential. Lied during Indy2014 on numerous occasions e.g. loss of pensions to Scottish Pensioners if Scotland voted Yes.
Horrible evil little runt of a man. To think we both grew up and were educated in the same town.
Can’t stand when they keep bringing him out of the closet to talk utter drivel about his own country. Sorry no. His country isn’t Scotland. It doesn’t exist. His country is the U.K. or Great Britain or whatever he wants to call it.
Makes me zzz every time he opens his useless mouth.
Here’s one for Kenny Farquharson, Alex Massie, Gordon Brown and all the other morons, bigots and cultural chauvinist writing for the yoon press.
A THEORY OF JUSTICE
link to consiglio.regione.campania.it
How long will Scotland allow its future be determined by limited, prejudiced, fuckwits?
Social identity theory and self categorization theory.
link to dspace.lboro.ac.uk
That last fifteen minutes was fascinating. Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.
I`m sorry rev I don’t understand why you gave an interview to Farquharson and an English right wing newspaper who have both consistently attacked indy and the SNP at every opportunity.
Yeah, Gordon Brown again with his Scottish Nationalism bad Welsh Nationalism bad and English Nationalism has caused all the problems but although English Nationalism is the worst and is ruining the UK let’s just stick with that because eh, erm, let me think, well eh, oh I know, History, yes that’s it history, phew! thank God, I nearly didn’t think of anything there, History (wipes beads of sweat from his face)
For the second time in our immediate recent history the British don’t know what to do about Scotland because they can’t bayonet us into submission anymore, Scotland failed to grasp the thistle in 2014 if we fail to do it this time even after the lessons of 2014 that the British Nationalists cannot be trusted on anything they say then Scotland will have sealed its fate forever and the rise of a different kind of Nationalism in Scotland will be the result
Nobody in their right mind should listen to Gordon Brown, apart from being one of the British Nationalists he says he despises, the man’s an idiot and a coward, and of all people he should know how low an opinion the English have of Scotland and the Scots, because he suffered from their ire and sarcasm, yet still like a whipped dog he begs the rest of us to cringe by our masters feet and await their bidding in the hope of recieving the pat on the head as opposed to the toe of their boot and the edge of their tongue
Gordon Brown, a man who has no respect for himself asks us to be as despicably disgusting as him and turn our cheeks and bare our backs again, well that passeth all understanding, in the words of his favourite book
@Macduff at 8.36 – my household too wondered why the Rev accepted the invitation for an interview. And for GMS tomorrow. I am sure there is a good reason and it would be interesting to hear it, Rev.
O/T but seriously important. Is it “toeing the line” or “towing the line”? I have previously thought it is the former because of sailors being inspected on board ship lining up along a line between the deck planks. But several times lately, including a letter in the National, I have seen “towing”.
Thank God someone’s making waves.
I recall The Times outing the two bloggers, ‘belle de jour’ and ‘nightjack’. It seemed to me that the MSM were setting out to eliminate competition, seeing their market share fall and the internet replacing them for news and interest.
Nightjack was to me a serious loss, subtitled ’24hrs to crack the case’, it was an anonymous telling of the work of detectives in solving crimes. I’ve seen nothing so interesting in the Media.
You were wise to retain your own record, I feel. I hope you can do the same with the beeb.
Is it just me or are Broon’s awakenings and resultant nappy solid spewings becoming more frequent.
I previously thought they may have been tied to the four seasons, but as the prevalence of his shite spouting escapades increased, I then believed he could be influenced by the lunar cycle in a Full Yoon Fever kinda deal.
But now I’m forced to the conclusion he is experiencing the lowlander equivalent of the Quickening which incorporates all the above elements, with a potential bonus booster of a “Labour in Scotchland” leadership change.
Ricardinho Linoleuman best watch out!
@ Sarah, in the House of Commons there are two lines on the carpet. They are such a distance apart that two men with swords cannot reach each other. MPs are required to stay behind these lines. To toe the line, perhaps?
That’s just one of the wonderful traditions of the House, still relevant today.
@ Sarah
This is a reasonable explanation, I think:
link to en.wikipedia.org
McDuff
The Rev has gone mainstream and been accepted by them because Scottish Independence is now mainstream and, because it’s seen as inevitable, the public need to be prepared.
This is the start of a conversation that the metropolitan elite are, through the MSM, required to have with England.
Every day’s a learning day.
@SOG: quite right. We should discuss these serious matters instead of spouting nonsense over the idea that Scotland should escape from being governed permanently by another country.
A fascinating interview. The interviewer was literally seething with a hatred that he couldn’t disguise.
His constant references to ‘division’ were telling. In the time that British Labour controlled Scotland, any attempt to challenge the status quo was SMOTHERED and that is where they want to turn the clock back to. Since telling them to fuck off became common place, they have got angrier and angrier and they project that anger into us.
How dare you tell them what they don’t want to hear? How dare you question their morality while they – studiously – avoid questioning it?
It will never be possible to get a ‘fair’ interaction with the Brits but having the audacity to go into the lion’s den and stick a finger in their snotty nose is always worthwhile. It gets the vitally important message across that we will not back off if confronted.
Well done Stu. Faint heart never won fuck all.
@crazycat: thank you. That wiki entry seems to answer the query. “Toe the line” it must be.
But having settled that debate so quickly we will have to go back to talking about Scotland’s rights to be a free nation. Sigh.
Once again BBC national TV news refers to British prison numbers when they mean England and Wales. No wonder yoons have no idea what us happening in Scotland as the vast majority of voters get their political views from BBC TV news programmes.
@Stu,
£50 donation to Wings if you use `antiestablishmentarianism` on radio tomorrow.
As Yessers, we cannot complain about lack of media coverage if we are not prepared to accept interviews from the likes of Kenny Fuckerson, Alex Massturbatie or the various quizmasters that infest BBC Britannia (shortbread branch). Embarrasingly, although Scotland has a wealth of talent in many areas, journalism is the one profession where we are worst in the world.
“Antidisestablishmentarianism” is longer, Scott, but the word ‘pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis”, invented in the 1930s, is even longer.
8=)
On the “Voices of the Colonies ” thread I wrote: “Make no mistake, the referendum legislation will be put in the fast lane at Holyrood after the summer recess for one good reason – the referendum campaign has already started.
“The point of no return has already been passed. We will have our referendum next year. We have our mandate. Our Scottish Parliament voted 69-59 for it. And when the Brexit shit hits the fan, it will be triggered.”
Nicola Sturgeon says in today’s Sunday Mail: “So in line with the mandate given by voters in 2016, we took the issue to the Scottish Parliament, which voted by a majority to back a referendum.
“The democratic mandate is cast-iron.
“That’s why, when MSPs return to Parliament in September, they will start considering a new law which will pave the way for a new referendum to be held next year.
“…the need for independence is becoming even more pressing. It is more important than ever that people are given a choice between continuing Westmister control or becoming an independent country.
“As an independent country we can become an equal partner with our friends and neighbours oin the rest of the UK.
“It is time to give people that choice.”
Note the “will” pave the way, not “may”. That is not a commitment on which the FM will renege.
Neither would she want to – because as I said before when NS presses the button she will go “all in” for independence – and the entire resources of her party, human and material, will be committed to ensuring a “Yes” victory. Likewise, the call of “aux armes, citoyens!” will go out to the entire indy movement to secure that which we have campaigned and longed for.
I have been banging on about this for some time – likewise Ian Blackford’s deliberately repeated vow that “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against its will”.
So I’ll say it again. There is NO WAY the SNP leadership will walk away from holding IndyRef2 next year if agreement for a Section 30 order is sought (which it will be) and refused (which it may be, the result of the almost certain GE this autumn notwithstanding).
Equally, there is NO WAY the UKOK media and British Nationalist MPs and MSPs will get their wish and manufacture a delay until the 2021 Holyrood poll.
If, in some parallel universe, they were to achieve such an outcome, every weapon in the British State’s dark armoury would be brought to bear against the SNP administration in Edinburgh to diminish and destroy is hitherto high standing with the Scottish electorate.
There would be a solitary objective – to prevent at all costs an indy majority and kill off the threat of independence once and for all.
But Scotland and its government cannot and will not hang around to be shot to pieces at Westminster’s whim.
So we will have our referendum. The campaign has already begun. And already, with hardly a shot being fired from our side, we are winning as the enemy slashes itself to pieces.
Therefore right now all else, including the notion of some new-fangled party, is at best unwanted and at worst hands our desperate adversaries ammunition they were hitherto denied.
As countless others have wisely counselled on here: “Eyes on the prize.”
And by the way, the Sunday Mail editorial is an eyebrow-raiser – in a good way. Make of that what you will.
OT. The Home Secretary clearly does not support the principle of universal human rights. That should scare the shit out of everyone who is not a zombie. Scots are about to have our connection to the international rule-of-law, further disrupted by illiberal government in London. Enough already!
Time for some more International Relations Theory?
link to e-ir.info
Hi Fairliered at 10:20 pm.
You mentioned,
“Embarrasingly, although Scotland has a wealth of talent in many areas, journalism is the one profession where we are worst in the world.”
Wasn’t always like that. A couple of links for you:-
link to en.wikipedia.org
Dundonians (and Glaswegians) will recognise many of the locations in this video:-
link to youtube.com
Farquerson’s a fool, obviously doesn’t know the difference between a mandarin collar and grandad shirt. Probably needs help getting dressed in the morning
Now I’m an old guy with a very, very good memory and I can attest the there never has been a time in history that politics was a civilised, friendly and cosy business.
I recall Westminster election campaigns where the hustings literally were conducted in church halls, scout huts and such like and often spilled out into the streets. As a pre-teen it was great entertainment to go Speaker’s Corner at Edinburgh’s Fit o the Mound. I can assure you it was often far from friendly debate and more than once ended in punch-ups.
If Mr Farquharson thinks there was ever civilised politics with the parties being nice to each other he is as daft as the proverbial brush. Even in the 60s and 70s if you attended a political meeting of such as Willie Hamilton in the old West Fife constituency and expressed a non-Labour view you were promptly, “Escorted”, out of the meeting by several very large Labour Supporters and none too gently thrown out.
I remember attending a Willie Hamilton meeting in what was known as, “The Wee Club”, in Kelty. During the meeting Willie bragged, “If you pinned a Labour rosette on a collie dogs collar the people of West Fife would vote for it”. At which I spoke up and said, “Aye! Willie, I know – and I’m looking right at it”.
It must have taken less than 15 seconds and I was physically manhandled by a five or six of Willie’s handlers and physically
thrown outescorted out of the meeting.That’s the civilised manner that politics were conducted in the 60/70 and that was quite a way more civilised than it was in the 1940s and 50s.
What got me about it was that even after you clearly explained the difference of the blog and twitter he continued to conflate them and pretend the language and attitude was on here as well meaning you had to keep correcting him.
Well Kenny, Stu doesn’t tell me what to think or how to feel. I have a science PhD and I very, very highly value the demonstrable truth as well. Stu didn’t make me Yes, I already was. He didn’t make me get out and canvass etc, I already was before I learned about Wings. He armed me and many, many others with WBB’s and they worked. I have several anecdotes about them up to the two young coppers at the polling place I was doing duty at poring over it.
BDTT@10.21pm
A very impressive posting. My question is can you say that word in one go without stopping to take breath.
What is extreme, what is reprehensible? Some examples in no particular order.
Endorsing years of austerity knowing that the poor and those who are financially vulnerable are most at risk of suffering is extreme and reprehensible.
Funding regimes with no regard of human rights who continue to bomb and kill some of the poorest children in the world is extreme and reprehensible.
Using unacceptable language to promote racist and class- riven ideology to protect racist and class- riven systems of power and influence is extreme and reprehensible.
Dismantling state apparatus and putting state institutions up for sale whilst stating the opposite is extreme and reprehensible – it’s also called lying.
Ignoring the sovereign status of another country and denigrating its citizens and elected government is extreme and reprehensible.
Taking money from the public purse to promote an agenda of tax avoidance and avoidance of financial scrutiny is extreme and reprehensible.
Using the institutions of democracy to debase and degrade progressive democracy is extreme and reprehensible.
Persistently ignoring a country’s democratic vote is extreme and reprehensible.
The UK government’s imperialist designs on Scotland is extreme and reprehensible but also very foolish. The list of extreme and reprehensible behaviour and tactics to crush Scotland has no traction when a country has belief in itself as an outward looking internationalist country. An independent Scotland will have a strong economy, include all its citizens- Scot by birth and Scot by choice-use its national assets for the common good. The combination of WM entitlement and hubris has created multiple constitutional crises where the common solution is independence for Scotland, Wales and re-unification of Ireland. Eventually there are consequences of extreme and reprehensible beliefs and actions.
In the previous thread after reading the Times article I wrongly said Kenny Farquharson was a diddy.
I have now listened to the recording and I would like to say he is a 100% complete and total diddy. Not your normal bog standard diddy is Farquharson.
The guy can hardly string a sentence together um huh uh eh ………. He just deflected every time he couldnt answer Mr Campbell’s points.
Is this the standard of Times journalism? Pathetic skills allied with bias and propaganda. No wonder the U.K. Media is well down the list of most trusted in the world.
Hi Cubby at 10:41 pm
You typed,
“A very impressive posting. My question is can you say that word in one go without stopping to take breath.”
I can manage the first I mentioned. “Floccinaucinihilipilification” is also a one breath gig. The 30s invention will need some practice, however, as it was a new one on me. However, pregnant pauses can be effective; they can lead to an exciting sense of anti
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.
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cipation.
Gordon Brown once again, joining with Ian Murray, seeks to play to Labour’s decreasing base in Scotland by using the term ‘nationalism’ to disparage those that support an independent Scotland.
In doing so in the way they do, both reveal a sorry lack of intellectual analysis and rigour: ‘nationalism’ is not just one thing. Different forms of nationalism have been debated by the left in Europe for a century or more. It is a political concept that has multiple manifestations – some very bad; some almost inevitable so long as we have communities and nation states; some very beneficial. And in the face of global, corporate power a serious debate about the the roles of these different nationalisms is one we should have.
And some in that bastion of British socialism, the Fabian Society agree! ‘Progressive nationalism’ is a thing and it has merit!
Source: link to fabians.org.uk (May, 2013)
“… People need hope and confidence in the country’s ability to meet its challenges. Narrow reactionary nationalism can be a ready retreat – hence UKIP’s dramatic rise. But progressive nationalism can just as readily find root in the same needs.”
“Progressive nationalism would also help Labour assert a credible positive vision of the future.”
“Tactically, Labour anchoring itself in progressive nationalism outflanks the Conservatives, playing on their UKIP divisions, while countering with a stronger identity more in tune with the majority of modern Britain. Equally it embraces from the disenchanted working class through to struggling British businesses, making common cause between classes and interests. For Labour nationalism can now be inherently unifying; whereas for Conservatives it’s now more divisive.”
Scotland’s statehood aspirations associated with progressive, civic, liberal, constitutional and democratic nationalism should be proclaimed with confidence: Brown and Murray should not get a free ride to define this concept solely in their chosen, selective terms.
Good interview butthese people will distort anything you say
Stay awayfrom them they will be no help to you
Post indywe can review their works and act accordi gly
@Heart of Galloway: “Therefore right now all else, including the notion of some new-fangled party, is at best unwanted and at worst hands our desperate adversaries ammunition they were hitherto denied. ” (my bold).
There’s a difference between talking about starting a new party, which seems to get the Rev in papers, on radio and TV next, and actually going ahead and doing it. So to consider the good or bad of it, it’d need to look at all the options:
1). start it now, which isn’t being proposed
2). start it next year, which is conditional on no Indy Ref
3). start it in 2021 which is still conditional
4). not start it at all, just talk about it
good and bad for all of these, and probaby very different opinions.
The Rev is still a Dick by the way.
“Felt you gave him what he was looking for with your comments on Dugdale.”
Why didn’t he put that bit in the paper, then?
The UK say they’re going to make the economic case for the Union, that translates as *We’re going to threaten Scotland with poverty*
Trouble with that strategy is they’re using it on the Republic of Ireland at the moment and do you see them falling for it, that’s a big negatory, they’ve a long history of being threatened by England, the difference is the Irish remember it and pass the information on to their kids so they’ll never forget, and they never will
Unionists in Scotland are our problem because they’ve perpetuated the rewritten lies of the lovely Union’s past as a warm and wonderful experience of occupation and murder
Independence isn’t about money because small countries the world over are perfectly successful, it’s about self determination, integrity, honesty of governance by the people of our own country and not by the people of another country who say they want to pool and share everything when what they mean is pool what we have and share it with themselves because there are more of them and they outvoted us to make that so
1st class Scot or a second class Brit, pick one!
Note to hard of thinking yoon politicians and yoon journos(i.e. most of them).
Independent Scotland won’t be nationalism, it will be national.
Independence won’t be divisive. Everyone a citizen. With every vote being equal.
Unlike unpleasantly nationalistic Britain where often votes are nullified. For instance 62% of Scotland’s voters not enough to keep Scotland in Europe. Historic outrage.
Hope ma wee late night jottings are some help in stimulating yer modest powers of ratiocination.
stewartb says:”
“Tactically, Labour anchoring itself in progressive nationalism…”
Clearly these people’s vision of “progressive nationalism” is little more than a re-vamped right on version of good old British/English Imperialism.
If it takes hold the Brit-lefties up here will add to their propensity for Scotland denying and their long held desire for self-determination for all the people of the world except the Scots.
A chant of – There ain’t no Mac in the Union Jack!
Sounds good to me.
Scot Finlayson says:
11 August, 2019 at 10:13 pm
Hi Scott, if I write ‘antiestablishmentaianism’ in this comment….can I get £25 ?
Not asking for a friend…they’re all greedy….just asking for me Lol
Hi Scot Finalyson
My previous comment was a test comment..I deliberately mispelt the word you asked Stu to say on the radio…cause if you say No I cannot have £25 for writing word …then I will not write it with correct spelling …yes I know…I am playing hard ball but there you go..my offer still sands..mean stands.
Brian Doonthetoon says:
11 August, 2019 at 10:21 pm
“Antidisestablishmentarianism” is longer, Scott, but the word ‘pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis”, invented in the 1930s, is even longer.
8=)
Hi Brian…re my response to Scot at 11.56pm & 11.59pm..just so you know …no way would I ever consider copying these new words for less than £100…this is getting too complicated now..I think I’ll just forget it.
Scot , just ignore my previous comments…I am out of my depth..again.
BDTT@11.00pm
Nice one. Well get practising with saying – Pneumo…….. hell cant even write it – and I look forward to hearing you attempt it some time in the near future at the Wings stall.
Cubby @ 19:42,
Always happy to debate with anybody except those who advocate violence. Not mealy-mouthed or apologetic about that. Also have to seriously doubt the bona-fides of a newcomer who starts off in that vein, whatever “justification” is then claimed. Doesn’t win converts, whether intentionally counter-productive or merely dumbass hot-head.
Odd priorities that you’re more willing to check me on that than him, (whatever your own hinted-at reservations). Nothing more interesting to say…?
Hi Cubby at 12.13am.
I will practice for the WOS stall at Aberdeen next Saturday.
8=)
Robert J Sutherland@12.15am
Sorry I don’t comment on a post that I haven’t read. I assume it has been removed.
“Nothing more interesting to say” – well I am pleased that you replied in a civil fashion.
Heart of Galloway @ 10.22 PM
I agree with what you say in your post but would like to pick up on one thing you said: “”…and the entire resources of her party, human and material, will be committed to ensuring a “Yes” victory.””
If by “material” you mean money then the SNP does not have a great deal of that particularly if, as seems increasingly likely, they have to fight a GE in the next few months.
I looked at the financial data on the Electoral Commission’s website yesterday and the SNP has had little if anything by way of donations from individuals in the past year and its annual accounts showed a surplus income over expenditure of around £600,000.
They have lost some of their bigger donors such as the Weirs and do not seem to have any significant amounts coming from any other individuals.
Membership fees may be their main source and given the way people are stirred up to the point of threatening to cancel, or actually cancelling, their membership that may be a diminishing resource just when it is most needed.
BDTT@12.17am
Sorry won’t make Aberdeen – family birthday party. Planning on going to Perth so if you are there it gives you more practice time.
No way Kenny Farquharson isn’t reading this thread.
You left your weeping bucket beside the BDSM Clubhouse radiator last week, Kenny. It melted all over the coprophagia sheet. Consider this a warning. One more time and you’re barred.
Robert J Sutherland@12.15am
Now I did see the post at 6.30pm where he said:
“Up yours Yoon apologist”.
I totally condemn the use of the words Up Yours. Happy now Mr Sutherland. Now care to enlighten me on why you are being called a yoon apologist?
Is that interesting enough?
Legerwood@12.35
Aye, how right you are. Time to smash the piggybank I reckon.
OMG! Kenny Farquharson in the segment after 01:00:00 blows my mind.
Has there ever been such a clear case of “insider” class based tone policing ever captured on tape? Kenny is all at sea under the simplest questions and as he throws out straw men, his arguments fall so fast it’s ridiculous.
Once you see this you can not un-see it. His assumptions about people’s right to communicate vs power/influence are bizarre. What did he think the enlightenment was only for the elite? In a social democracy, I thought we had the right to discuss and debate our views. These rights we have now took some of the greatest minds in history to bring into being and were hard won.
Dear me
Seething Wells and Attila The Stock Broker are Different people.
Attila is still alive and still plays and writes
Seething Wells I’m afraid passed away quite some time back.
Just a thought…
There are 129 MSPs.
Should the SNP win the Shetland Constituency Seat in the coming by-election,they would have 63 MSPs.
A former SNP MSP, who is now an independent, will presumably vote with the SNP, which would give them 64 MSPs.
What if, the Scottish Government makes a deal with the UK Government for a Section 30 order in return for the Scottish Parliament giving its consent to the UK Withdrawal Act?
I’ve read there is still disagreement between both governments on the ‘competancy’ of four of the returning devolved powers for which the EU has/had responsibility.
Presumably, the Presiding Officer holds a casting vote, which would mean the Scottish Parliament could give its consent to the EU Withdrawal Act, with just 64 votes.
Agreeing to give its consent to the Act, would prevent the Scottish Government from legislating on some shared powers for seven years.
What would you do?
Cubby @ 12:47,
The respondent in question – whose original rather inflammatory posting has indeed (rightfully) been “disappeared”, it seems – took umbrage to my little piece of alliteration suggesting he take himself and his turbulence henceforth. Sadly, you also chose to take (rather milder, if somewhat passive-aggressive, dare I suggest it?) exception to my earnest injunction, apparently not having – as you seem latterly to acknowledge – made yourself cognisant of the context, being more concerned it would seem with form rather than with substance. But let me reassure you, since you inquire, that the substance of his expressed discontent was entirely without merit, mere wild and unsubstantiated abuse. I hope, Sir, that clarifies the matter and fully allays any ongoing concerns. =grin=
Radio Scotland interview just now:
Seemed fair enough from Gary Robertson, none of the slitheriness Kenny Farquarson displayed.
I wonder, are the MSM hacks shifting their stance as they sense the way the wind is blowing and are looking to their own futures in the worlds newest Nordic nation, Scotland?
Dear Rev,
Your interview on GMS was excellent.
You will have my vote – it would be a huge relief to have an alternative party that does not have extreme culture-destroying policies – so, in fact, please start setting in motion its formation. It will take you a while to write a manifesto.
All the best, Paula
I couldn’t sleep last night so I put on the bedside radio on Five Live, “Up all night”. I turn down the volume and it usually has me sleeping in no time. However no such luck but there were several very English accents and one in particular spoke with great conviction as if he were an authority on the subject.
The subject seemed to be about the break-up on, “The Country”, called the United Kingdom. These people got everything wrong it wasw possible to get wrong. Apparently the Westminster government of the country called the United Kingdom was sovereign and I’m sure Wingers know the rest of the things these people believed in.
A little lesson in history and others in geography and maths was required they simply didn’t have a clue yet they are at a total loss as to why the Scots, Welsh and Irish are all increasingly turning to independence.
I believe most Celts could enlighten them in no uncertain moment.
KF “& you gave me a story today, well done that man”
SC “Did ah?”
Labour and Tory listers, watch them attack! Can someone pull together a list of the listers who have a bigger ear of the press and I’ll show you a list of folk that will push a more vitriolic narrative against a Wings Political Party.
A list only political party has gotten me excited, the numbers work and I for one of a fair few folk cant wait to take back a little bit of control of this process!
OT Earlier on either BBC Scotland or Radio 4, before 7.30 am.
Apparently Richard Leonard ‘may be considering his position after being undermined by John McDonnel.’
Will that be new branch office leader number 8 coming up?
I do like how Kenny Farquaharson is desperate to try to characterise Wings followers as brainless drones who do whatever Wings says. The thought of Yes voters as intelligent people who have weighed up the information and come to their own conclusions appears to be utterly terrifying to the Establishment.
@ Robert Peffers.
I’m afraid I can’t bare to listen to there nonsense, I, like many others, switch off, otherwise my brain goes into overdrive.
As a keen camper, Port Ban and Cambelltown a couple of weeks back, I find the sound of rain on the tent very soothing and sleep comes in no time at all.
So soothing that my wife found an app or something that replicates the sound of rain falling on canvas, we play it every night at home. Works brilliantly.
My wife and I listened to this yesterday….you were excellent
The interview revealed more about Kenny than it did about you. Particularly hilarious to hear a corporate hack attack you for telling the truth because it’s “divisive” when he’s perfectly fine with Holyrood being packed with incompetent list nonentities because it doesn’t rock the boat. The meeja is a fucking disgrace. PR has replaced telling truth to power. Broadsheets like the Times were one revered for their fearless exposes, now it’s pop quizzes down the pub. How the mighty have fallen.
What an inarticulate lump the interviewer is – apart frm his name who is he? Aha! Yeah! Aha! ahem! Aha ! em! yeah aha, hmm,em.
Well done Stu .
Wish you’d not copied his ‘Salmond ‘ and “Sturgeon” and called them Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon.
Definitely a sanity saver!
You could have been kind and removed his’ aha’s’ as well there again he comes over as a complete arse so perhaps not.
Morning Rev,
Just to say, heard the interview this AM. Went well I thought. Good dig at the BBC’s misrepresentation of your idea.
Mr. Robertson sounded nervous to me.
Thanks, as always.
Rev Stu’s interview on GMS this morning:
link to soundcloud.com
And, see Nana’s links here:
link to indyref2.space
The Union loving 99% of the media have difficulty getting a negative angle on independence.
That is no surprise to me as our cause is just and has great merit.
The media response is to “shoehorn” us into opinions which they can criticise. They are despicable but I for one will never lower myself to their level.
“They go low, we go high” President Obama
Nicola is on ‘Loose Women’ 12.30
O/T but Nana missed this one.
Please all read it. Especially Nicola!
link to irishtimes.com
By Prof Ronan McCrea.
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
Worth a watch.
link to youtube.com
If you haven’t seen Stephen Fry’s videos on Brexit. They are good for encouraging hesitant remainers in Scotland to Independence.
Robert Kerr@9.38am
It’s looking more and more like a crash out no deal.
Aitchbee@8.39am
The truth is that the brainless drones are the Britnats who read and listen to all the Britnat media and never check that what they are being told is true. Lazy people will always be susceptible to propaganda. Pre the internet it was a lot lot harder to get to the truth. No excuse nowadays.
The Times interview sounds like you’re being interviewed by Smash Hits at the start… except from they wouldn’t have got your name wrong.
Robert J Sutherland@
Mr Sutherland ( cracking name by the way – always one of my favourites) I think I have made my point. As you are an intelligent man. I think you have always known my point was not about the content of the offensive post and not about whether your response was justified.
Don’t recognise the passive aggressive comment just making my point.
Wings party. Good idea.
Manifesto- one word. Independence.
Simples.
An excellent interview on GMS. My favourite comments in order:
1. Stating that BBC staff had been approached about standing for the new party. Brilliant. The BBC gestapo will be off and running trying to work out who they are.
2. Stating that the BBC had been misrepresenting the aims of the new party.
3. Stating that the SNP have been working very hard to stop Brexit ( even though it was expressed in a way that they should be concentrating more on independence).
Action Time ! March for Independence ….Aberdeen Saturday 17th August. Begins Albyn Place 1.30pm. Everyone invited.
Great interview on GMS which I heard through the Sound Cloud and not on the radio.
Gordon Brown – a truly toxic British Nationalist.
What now brown VOW.
Dies this clown believe that everyone has forgotten all his broken VOW promises.
Away back to your crypt and don’t come out again for a thousand years.
[…] Read More… […]
@Legerwood, 12.35am
If the GE comes before the planned Indyref, surely the best use of limited funds would be to go for independence at the GE?
Just listened to the Rev’s very good interview on GMS. Good points got across and a fair hearing. All positive stuff.
Just got round to listening to “The Tape”. Good interview with almost no expletives. That’ll disappoint the unionists and woke left i.e all the right people.
Same with GMS interview. Gary was remarkably restrained too. He will be getting his jotters if he’s not careful.
Suspect twitter has exploded today though.
Soon, the idea of a WoS regional party will be so normal everyone will be wondering why nobody thought of it before. What a difference a day makes in the media.
Caught the interview on shortbread.
Well done.
———————————————————–
PS:
Labour MSPs urge Richard Leonard to stand up to UK leadership
snippet!
Labour peer Lord Foulkes, a former MSP, yesterday admitted he had told Ms Laird to her face that he thought “almost anyone would be better than her”. 🙂
link to archive.is
I listened to the tape of Obrien and the Englisn woman at the end of it telling us all about Her thoughts about Scotland and how she and her family voted no in 2014 and so did 80per cent of Incomers helping to outvote the true Scots and deny them their right to independence this must not be allowed to happen in the next ref., these Incomers should not be allowed a vote because it is not their country so they have no right to decide its future that is common sense if you are not a member of a club you do not get a vote even if you attend the club let’s not leave ourselves open to Incomers deciding our fate no other country in world would allow it
*Breaking up our country*
Notice how they don’t often say *the* country (which is still wrong) or *the* Union
It’s always *our* or *our precious* which tells you everything you need to know about the people using that language
Ownership
Independence for Scotland is returning our country to the normal state of everybody else’s country, we’re not breaking or dividing or digging big trenches or even building big Mexican Trump walls
All Scotland is saying is we want no further part in UK politics or systems so why the emotive language as though Scotland is doing something against the will of any people at all when clearly the majority of the people want it or they wouldn’t keep voting for the political party who’s aim is to do it
Sturgeon this, Sturgeon that, they constantly moan, but it’s not her is it, it’s us the people who ask her to do the job we voted her in to do and that’s why the opposition keep banging on about the FM to make it appear as though this is all her idea and hers alone
It’s me England, I don’t want you, we don’t want you, Scotland doesn’t want you, we hired Nicola Sturgeon to tell you that, she didn’t make us do it
So Adios, Sayonara, Auf Weidersehen, would yeez jist get tae F and dae wan, Cheerio!
Other languages are available
Cubby says:
12 August, 2019 at 11:27 am
Gordon Brown – a truly toxic British Nationalist.
————–
Gather round, everyone. The millionaire with Iraqi babies’ teeth lodged in his £4000 suit is sermonising on what’s “toxic”.
@Blair Paterson 12:09pm
That’s not quite accurate Blair, I lived in Spain and had the right to vote, I didn’t out of good manners as it was not my country and didn’t intend to be there the rest of my life but I did have the right
The difference in Scotland is English folk have been educated to understand that Scotland is a property they own therefore have the moral right to decide Scotland’s people’s future as the they are the owner custodians, and they wrote it into law so ye cannae argue or you change the law so that Scottish people can’t vote in England and Wales either
Then you have the constitutional problem of taxation without representation and where do you stop, Pakistani people, Chinese, Indian, Polish, French, German
I’m afraid just because you don’t like it Blair, rules is rules and if they were changed to the way you would like the rules, Scotland would not look like a very nice place to come to or live in because we would appear to not welcome foreigners
Then we’d be just like England only worse because we’d openly be discriminating against other nationalities and who’d want to live or even deal with a country like that
That’s one of the ways the bad people in Germany invaded their own country, surely you’re not one of those are you Blair
Blair Paterson@12.09pm
You and Callachan are like a couple of unwanted salesmen who keep returning every so often trying to sell your unwanted and nasty products.
cirsium says:
12 August, 2019 at 11:36 am
@Legerwood, 12.35am
If the GE comes before the planned Indyref, surely the best use of limited funds would be to go for independence at the GE?””
…….
No. A General Election is just that – general on a multiplicity of issues.
This soon to be held GE is too important and any attempt to hi-jack it for another purpose will be punished by the electorate at the ballot box and in the process breathe new life into the Unionist parties.
Beat them stupid at the GE. Gain as many seats as possible then hold the indyref when they are on the ropes.
Any attempt to conflate general with a specific issuewill not work. This also applies to the idea being punted of contesting regional seats with a single issue party.
The electorate in Scotland may not know the minutiae of who won what when or how many times since the war the outcome of the vote in Scotland has made any difference to the overall outcome in a GE but they do know the difference and significance of Westminster GE, Holyrood GE, local council elections and a referendum and vote accordingly.
@ Dr Jim @ 12.12pm
“All Scotland is saying is we want no further part in UK politics”
Spot on Dr Jim….however yon Tom Wubble U insists that we MUST remain in HIS UK where HE and HIS Labour party colleagues cannot even form a competent opposition to the Tory government or indeed agree among themselves….in fact are actively opposing and undermining their own leader.
Tom Wubble U thinks we minions up North are thick …so thick he thinks he can get away with regurgitating the same spiel that he and his comrades spewed out pre 2014 via BT campaign.
Pooling and sharing ?….really ?….Have I missed something or has Tom Wubble U ?
Co-operation between nations…really ?…Have I missed something or has Tom Wubble U ?
Then Tom Wubble U introduces the new Project Fear kid on the block…look how hard it has been to leave the EU…imagine how hard will be to leave the UK ….common player in this is of course the WM government and their unmovable red lines and inability to compromise…we wants it all we do… in both negotiations they are ably being aided by Tom Wubble U and his party as , once again, the willing hand maidens to their Tory masters.
Tom Wubble U then spouts some further nonsense and endorses the Labour leader LOL in Scotland who are running on empty in the polls in Scotland…so makes perfect sense to Tom Wubble U that Scots should listen to him..the branch manager.. a man who is trying and succeeding in taking the clown crown once worn by Jim Murphy.
So Dr Jim…we most certainly do indeed not want any further part in UK politics because if we remain we will be guaranteed to have a diminished country whose choices, quality of life and decency will be denied by the likes of Tom Wubble U and all of his Union uber alles politicians…..
Marianne Taylor: Gordon Brown insults us all by claiming independence is an evil
By Marianne Taylor @MarianneTaylorZ
Features writer and columnist herald
OUT and about in Glasgow’s Buchanan Street on Saturday it was hard to miss the Christian chap with the megaphone next to the statue of Donald Dewar, shouting the usual stuff about sinners going to hell. I don’t doubt he believed every word. But it was all so cliched and embarrassing folk simply turned away and walked on.
As I read Gordon Brown’s latest dire warnings about the dissolution of the UK, which included an assertion that the country is “sleepwalking to oblivion”, I kept thinking of the megaphone man. After all, that’s what the former Prime Minister has turned into: a street corner preacher with a sermon nobody wants to hear.
That’s not to say Mr Brown is wrong. His prediction that a no-deal Brexit will lead to Scottish independence looks more accurate by the day, while his claim that the “comfortably unifying Britishness” of the post-war settlement has been swept away is also entirely right. It’s the underlying slur in these regular dispatches that immediately turns folk off, the insult to the intelligence of Scots, and indeed everyone else in the UK, in the way he equates the “toxic nationalism” of Boris Johnson’s no-deal crusade with Scotland’s right to choose a different future.
At first glance this knowing and very deliberate conflation of the two, that spitting of the word “nationalism”, purports to be about the sort of internationalist socialist ideals that kept the Labour vote united throughout much of the 20th century, the “commonality of workers in Glasgow, Sheffield or Cardiff” line that undoubtedly stopped some voting Yes in 2014.
Leading Labour MP Stella Creasy was at it too last week, after Jeremy Corbyn’s deputy, John McDonnell, blew Scottish Labour’s policy of unequivocal opposition to indyref2 out of the water by saying it would be for the people of Scotland to decide whether another referendum should be held. “Nationalism is the antithesis of socialism,” she pronounced haughtily on Twitter. “To prioritise passports over principles isn’t progressive. Egalitarian devolution isn’t about separation but how by working together as nations within the UK, each stronger and more successful. Labour abandons such commitment at our peril.”
Beneath the surface of this caring, sharing egalitarianism is a clear and concerted bid to make Scots feel bad and dirty about supporting self-determination. After all, independence remains an inconvenient and irritating prospect for a Labour party that has been consumed by chaos on both sides of the border.
But the severity and fluidity of recent events mean the party’s automatic refusal to countenance even the notion that independence is a legitimate position, is crumbling. And those who cling on to it are being roundly and rightly called out or, as in the case of Mr Brown, simply ignored.
Let’s me be clear. It’s perfectly acceptable for defenders of the union to say they are opposed to independence and would campaign against it in any future referendum. But to repeatedly suggest that self-determination is in itself some sort of evil, some sort of betrayal, is not only wrong, but insulting and hypocritical.
In Mr Brown and Ms Creasy’s world independence sympathisers (more than half the Scottish population if the latest polls are to be believed) are… what exactly? Selfish? Stupid? Misguided? Guilty of some sort of thought crime?
Of course, the pair are not just talking rot, but the sort of dangerous rot that – as their own predictions about the disastrous ramifications of No-deal Brexit outline – would have Scots knowingly harm their own economic, social and intellectual interests in order to keep afloat dying notions and entities that are no longer fit for purpose. For many Scots continuing to administer these self-inflicted wounds will not only seem problematic, but out and out madness. That’s why it would be perfectly sensible and legitimate to have the opportunity to choose another course.
Indeed, all this is particularly galling because over the last three years Labour has done hee-haw to defend any of the folk it purports to represent from the catastrophe of Brexit, throwing them instead to the right-wing Tory wolves who are devouring the last remnants of the union and will think nothing of consuming livelihoods and communities in the name of no-deal. As another recent poll highlighted, the Tory membership that voted for Boris Johnson as PM would happily sacrifice both the economy and the union to achieve Brexit.
Whether or not Parliament can or will stop no-deal remains unclear. But you can tell how precarious the union is by the number of Labour and Lib Dem MPs talking up the fantasy of federalism again. It would be genuinely funny if it wasn’t so very grim.
Mr McDonnell’s recent change of tune may be first and foremost about the need for SNP support for any future Labour government. But it at least recognises the fact that many of his party’s voters support not only indyref2, but a Yes vote.
Importantly, it also accepts that Scottish independence is a legitimate position, even if one does not support it. Until Mr Brown follows suit he will not only be insulting his compatriots, but screaming into the void.
revs on twitter being attacked by nihilists
link to youtube.com
life follows art.
Bookie from Hell @ 12.57
Ha Ha screaming into the void right enough 🙂
What these defenders of the Union need to be told is that they’re preaching to the wrong choir…
Go tell the Brexit voter’s they can’t leave the EU because Scotland won’t stand for it!!!
Scotland demands EU membership so if the British Union is so precious … Those “17 point something” Brext voter’s must forget all about it and get back in their box…
No Brexit
Or
No Union
We Scots have been very clear….
Go tell it to the fan’s of Brexit….. We heard everything the British Nationalists had to say 5 years ago,and they’ve nothing any different to say to us now!!
Stuart Campbell is *The devil*
The MSM don’t like him, they’ve misrepresented practically every word he’s said, they say the SNP don’t like him, they go on to say the Tories Labour and particularly the Greens don’t like him (easy to see why there, a Wings party would hoover up those second list votes from the Greens)
When you’ve got that many folk supposedly not liking you it’s almost guaranteed he’ll do just fine
Fear and loathing from the MSM, a definite vote winner in Scotland
Dr Jim @ 1.21
Well, they can’t legitimately loath the Rev cause they don’t know him… It must be all fear… 🙂
But it’s not just him… The things they’re sayin about us Wing’ers are hilarious too.
Trying to match these descriptions to the Wing’ers I’ve met is the best laugh I’ve had in ages…
Little ole wine drinker me as an enemy of the state….
I can’t even!!!!!…… 🙂
I’m thinking about changing ma name to..
00 7teen 0seven ???
And warning people that I’m licenced to slap anyone who shakes of stirs ma Whisky!!
I really enjoyed that interview. Kenny trying hard to trip you up. You managed to get in Dugdale. If this ever airs that will definitely we cut! Ha,ha, well done.
“They” really must be getting very worried to give you so much publicity. Of course “they” are lying their heads off about you but must know now that the Independence movement is in good form and can see the lies a mile off.
Keep doing what you’re doing!
@ Legerwood.
‘ a general is just that – general on a multiplicity of issues ‘
That’s a fairly big assumption or should that be assertion your making regarding what people will or won’t do. I could also make the assertion that people have witnessed within the last week how ineffective and side lined the Britnat party’s in Scotland have become. There is almost nothing they can do to influence the decision making process within their respective party’s. There is little in the polls to suggest that the libdems could gather enough momentum to become the government of the Uk and just what exactly are the multiplicity of issues that you think the GE will be fought on. The next GE will be fought on a single issue no matter what is written in a party manifesto, Brexit.
@ Stu Campbell
Please read Peter A Bell’s latest blog. https://peterabell.blog
He suggests you are now getting plenty of air time to set up as some sort of figurehead of the YES movement, to be shot down later by the Evil Empire of the Union, to discredit and dishearten the YES movement.
Just always bear in mind what has happened to Craig Murray and others who have dared to tread on the toes of the Empire.
link to theguardian.com
A TRULY GLOBAL BRITAIN – after the breakup of the UK?
A reminder of PM JOHNSON’S fantasy world.
“The prime minister claimed… they could be better deploying their talents in preparing to pioneer new trade deals and promoting a truly global Britain”.
All part of the Downing Street Punch & Judy show, designed to distract everyone’s attention away from the plan to preserve, as the top priority, the English Establishment, which is in grave danger from the avalanche of consequences of Brexit, the greatest of which is the rise of the English Independence movement, with its insistence on leaving the EU and its ambivalence about Scotland’s forthcoming independence.
Has Frankie Boyle been approached?
Imagine FMQ’s
I think Caroline Lucas is now going through that moment when you have an idea and then announce said idea to then ponder amidst the backlash generated via your idea that….perhaps this is a ” It sounded better in my head ” idea.
“The next GE will be fought on a single issue no matter what is written in a party manifesto, Brexit.”
Au contraire golfnut, up here the single issue will be Indy, with Brexit as mere catalyst. How could it not be?
The likely upcoming GE must be fought as de facto Indyref 2, with a manifesto commitment to a confirmatory poll.
Now’s the hour. Probably 🙂
Re my previous post at 2.35pm ..perhaps ‘experiencing that moment’ as opposed to ‘going through that moment’ duh would have been better English…or maybe just leave it be…me grammar is awful…me bad …again.. Lol
I have read Peter A Bell’s latest blog piece on Stu’s idea to establish a second pro-independence party whose target is the list vote to the Holyrood Parliament.
At present, 43 Unionist MSPs gained their seat this way, while only 5 went to the SNP, despite the votes being roughly the same.
You don’t need to be particularly bright to see that this is a serious and deliberately inserted element in the voting method introduced by Westminster, which is tailored, with typical Establishment malevolence, to ensure the SNP could not gain an overall majority.
A second Independence Party, dedicated to the list vote will inevitably reduce the number of Unionists in Holyrood on a free meal-ticket, and strengthen the Independence cause.
Any attempt to throw insufficiently considered cold water on Stu’s idea, ought not to be taken seriously.
As an aside, there will be some people out there of a very nervous disposition, who don’t ‘feel’ safe driving over the Queensferry Crossing, and who think the best thing to do is keep it closed to traffic.
@ Defo
Which was actually the kind of point I was making, my response was regarding legerwoods opinion that the GE would /should be fought on multiplicity of issues, I don’t see that at all.
The Britnat party’s in Scotland will fight this on preventing indyref, we cannot afford to allow ourselves distracted on the NHS, education etc as happened the last. Brexit is the backdrop for Scotland and Indy required because of it.
Hi peeps.
Remember this, if you have spare do$h burning a hole in your pocket.
link to gofundme.com
I guessing Tartanpigsy will be at the Aberdeen rally on Saturday; it’s his neck of the woods.
At first I thought that the Rev was just winding up the Unionist Press.
When I looked at the Regional votes and the calculation it is an obvious and essential tool. In my view at least half the Green vote is done while holding your nose. I have always voted SNP X 2 because I do not trust Harvie and Co. They use their votes to push Party issues instead of Scottish Independence.
The Greens are not an attractive option ( I don’t disagree with many polices but that is for Post Independence)
However can we have high quality vetting of candidates. I want every vote to be in support of achieving Independence. I think a million list votes are up for grabs.
Ta golfnut. I butted in without taking the time…
It IS that obvious then?
Is anyone unclear what issue the Colonel, Little Dickie & the other guy will be full square focused on ?
Unless there are a few Damascene conversions betwixt now and then.
Given recent events, you never know.
“Has Frankie Boyle been approached?
Imagine FMQ’s”
I’d get ma TV licence back to watch that!
Honestly it’s just commonsense. The pro YES parties are outnumbered by the pro unionist parties at the moment and that needs rectified.
I’m forced to point out once again to thick Unionists in Scotland and the thick uneducated people in England that Scotland is NOT, repeat NOT part of the UK
Scotland IS the UK equally as much as England is, it’s a Union you Effing morons, you can’t have a Union with yourself, England is NOT the Union and Scotland’s just a bit of it, without Scotland there is no Effing Union you morons
Read an Effing history book why don’t you…..Jeez!
How many times do we have to inform these dolts before the rest of the population wake up and realise they’re all Effing dolts you can’t educate them because there’s nothing between their ears to educate
It’s like Father Ted talking to a whole field full of Dougalls
“Cystic fibrosis drugs rejected for use by NHS in Scotland” screeches Auntie.
Complete with pic of sick wee girl, clutching her teddy.
BAD SNP. Bad
Reading on, NHS England are refusing to pay what seems extortionate rates too.
Heroic standing up to big pharma!
link to bbc.co.uk
The old dear is looking increasingly uncomfortable, reminiscent of pre-indyref1, after the landslide.
You can vote for WOS in the “Best News Blog” poll here:-
link to infinityblogawards.co
Currently out in front with 59% of votes cast.
Dr Jim 3.54pm. These peoples lives revolve around gogglebox, the x factor, Bgt, and strictly. They are not the sharpest tools in the box, which is how the establishment likes them.
link to youtube.com
Does the EU need the UK?
@Bobp 5:11pm
It’s why the only detective series they show on their tellys is Agatha Bloody Christie and Rosemary and Thyme day after day after day
everything else is too complicated for the poor souls, even Columbo and they tell you who dunnit before it starts for Jeez sake
bookie from hell @ 12:57,
A truly fine posting that. Covers it all very well.
The only thing I want to add is that we might take El Gordo a sight more seriously if he had ever come out to strenuously and justly criticise his precious Union, its government and his fellow Unionists, for casually betraying all his (and their) fine promises back in 2014.
Until he does that, he will not only be ignored, he will be despised.
Mac
Thanks for highlighting the Stephen Fry’s videos on Brexit. It perfectly highlights how the far-right gaslight Britain to empower racism in British politics. The same forces are gaslighting Scotland now, to ensure Scots do not gain access to inalienable human rights.
Britain has never been a working democracy and is fast transforming into a fascist dictatorship.
Brexit: Facts vs Fear, with Stephen Fry.
link to youtube.com
The fear and hatred amongst the Yoon parties and the Greens over Stu’s new party has reached level total astonishment on the astonishing scale
There are eyes bulging and blood vessels bursting everywhere
See if they weren’t doing anything wrong they wouldn’t be worried about it would they
They can see Independence coming at them like a tidal wave and all they can do is wave their arms and shout at it
How the UK lost the European plot.
Another relevant video, if you have not seem it already.
What is very interesting, the video explains how Cameron and Osborne et al, tried to use Project Fear (They talk about carpet bombing the electorate around 7 minutes)
Imagine, hot from the Scottish Referendum, they thought the same tactic would work with EU referendum and got their fingers burned.
link to youtube.com
Never forget that Scotland was blitzed and carpet bombed by Westminster.
Defo 3.55
The Scotish Medicines Consortium has been around since 2002 making these decisions
And has nothing to do with whoever is in power at Holyrood.
link to archive.is
The ultimate in lying, cynical politicians, the notoriously disastrous former Chancellor and PM, Gordon Brown tells Guardian readers,
“the UK, once admired around the world for an understated but comfortably unifying Britishness that was inclusive, outward-looking, tolerant and ultimately pragmatic”.
I wonder how the Tories’ voice for cheating Scotland, reconciles his description of the UK, with the torrents of lies, smears, threats and warnings that have flodded Scotland every day for the last seven years.
Legerwood @ 12:48,
Normally you are quite correct, and added to that is the overwhelming media attention given to those (typically English-oriented) issues and the two parties which are their beneficiaries and which (heretofore at least) have dominated the scene thanks to the rotten FPTP voting fix.
However, think back to 2017: did not all 3 BritNat parties in Scotland, following the Little Corporal’s lead, almost exclusively major on “no IndyRef2”? I don’t recall that they suffered. In fact, thanks to the ever-helpful media, they managed to inflate some predictable gains – plus a few unexpected more – into some kind of “win”.
Some of us at least reckon that it was the SNPs refusal to meet that challenge head-on which cost them the lost votes that took some of the shine off the party’s considerable real win, and which despite that win, set the independence cause back by a year or so.
No-one is suggesting that the SNP doesn’t have a well-developed gamut of credible policies, backed up by proven experience in office, but this (coming) time round, which we likely can’t avoid, the emphasis surely has to be “Indyref2” full-front-stage.
Not because the party needs any more mandate, but just to offer everyone – both committed yesser and wavering other – hope that there is a meaningful and practical way out of the current mess, and very soon at that.
We can’t – and won’t – progress without having a bright light to shine at the end of this dismal tunnel.
I’m still not convinced Stu isn’t just at the old windup.
But in the spirit of the venture, may I suggest approaching
Janey (Independence And Soup)Godley
to be one of the candidates.
link to youtube.com
Frankie Boyle to the left of me.
Janey Godley to the right.
Here I am stuck in the middle with Murdo Fraser
Here’s another for those who are still not convinced that British nationalism is an illiberal ideology. Scotland’s legal ‘experts’, please take note.
P.S. Scotland’s disability is Scotland’s lack of political agency (see Scotland’s democratic deficit and the full-English Brexit).
New Perspectives on Equality: Towards Transformative Justice through the Disability Convention?
link to tandfonline.com
@Dr Jim
What Labour and the Tory parties at Holyrood especially fear is that it is possible they could both lose around 1/3 of their list seats to a new Regional only Independence party.
In fact I believe it’s entirely feasible that a new Independence party with the right candidates could be become the official opposition to the SNP in Holyrood.
An important caveats being that 2021 is a good bit into the future and we have yet to settle Brexit, a likely UK election or a 2nd Indyref that the SNP plan to have in 2020.
Meantime, might as well enjoy the show as many get their collective knickers in a twist over the very thought of such impudence.
Gordon Brown is a British nationalist. He is a man of the past who is being punted by the Establishment, in order to con the less politically aware. He can not be considered a democrat if he opposes another indyref for Scotland. We have a legal mandate for such a referendum ratified by the Scottish parliament, and there is growing (majority) support for a chance to re-consider our vote in the first indyref.
@Gordon Brown
How can you be a British nationalist and support the principle of universal human rights, at the same time?
But of course, none of this will happen, as we ‘know’ the SNP will hold an indyref prior to the 2021 elections anyway.
Well I don’t think the ultra unionist STV news 6pm programme carried a story tonight that wasnt a backhanded attack on the Scottish government.
They even gave the bespectacled dolt Labour’s Paul Sweeney airtime to vent his spleen.
Did anybody see the re tweet by the Rev yesterday from Browns ex Labour General Secretary that broon is a grade A nutter. This book is dynamite , how can anybody be nothing more than a laughing stock when it becomes public knowledge that as PM he went in the huff with his private dinner party guests because some of them sat down at the dinner table without being instructed to do so by him.
link to mobile.twitter.com
@Gordon Brown
Fill your boots, or are you proud to be a bit of a totalitarian?
link to jeanmonnetprogram.org
mike cassidy
Did the BBC spell that out in the article?
MIKE SMALL is doing a real suck-in of the cheeks, hyacinth bucket style; the latest bella article is soon to be setting records for the number of comments – typically he gets around 10-20, now its nearly 50.
All about the REV. I almost think this kind of obsession is a repressed homosexual attraction.
Alas, some of the wings regulars have been bumping up his traffic, inc. petra who is doing the scorned woman act, but maybe it was a scold too far t’other night.
It’s a bitchy little world, blogging – the fights so vicious because there’s so little at stake. If I ever start a blog, shoot me.
BTW there’s a george kerevan article floating about folks – here’s a precis
“somebodys needs tae dae sumfin”
“CAMPBELL ! – WHIT YE DAEIN?”
– getting back on point – anyone who has NOT played with the DHONDT MODEL should so so NOW – only then can you see -exactly- why this list party idea is needed.
link to scotlandvotes.com
@ Blair Paterson says:12 August, 2019 at 12:09 pm:
” … let’s not leave ourselves open to Incomers deciding our fate no other country in world would allow it.
Oh” cummon! Blair, I’ll list you a few countries where the incomers allow it – The USA, Canada, New Zealand … Oh! Wail! Nearly forgot a couple or three _ Scotland, England and Ireland.
Are not the Scots immigrants from Ireland? Is not the current population of Ireland not the result of the many, “The Plantations? Is not the current population of Wales largely fo English immigration?
The most obvious, though, is the many nations populated by the English – a nation completely consisting of the Germanic tribes who were invited to south Briton after the Romans left.
In short, Blair, you are talking utter pish.
I know this is going to upset the SNP loyalist, but I honestly don’t think the SNP hierarchy have a clue about equality and human rights.
Got the Douglas “red card” Ross pamphlet through my door today, the usual bollocks in it. Had great delight in putting it in the nearest post box with RTS on the front!! I wish more folk’s would do the same!!
@Liz g says: 12 August, 2019 at 1:36 pm:
” … Trying to match these descriptions to the Wing’ers I’ve met is the best laugh I’ve had in ages…
Little ole wine drinker me as an enemy of the state….
I can’t even!!!!!…… ?”
You are not wrong, Liz g, you only need to read Wings to realise that Wingers must be among the most likely to make their own minds up on just about any subject under the Sun. A flock of sheep is the last thing anyone could be convinced Wingers are. Generally speaking, or should that be writing, just about the last thing Wingers are is agreed about anything – even on the subject of Scottish independence there are grave doubts about several regular Wings, commenters and no doubt whatsoever about some of them.
Your average Winger can spot a false flag indy supporter at a 1,000 paces and that’s just from their comments.
@SNP management
Get your woke-wing sorted, please.
N.B. The World Health Organisation defines “sex” as denoting biological difference between males and females. Subsequently, the World Health Organisation acknowledges “sex” is not the same as “gender”, which is socially constructed.
link to who.int
CBB @6:26
Gordon Brown will say and do whatever those who pull his strings tell him to, irrespective of his own personal opinions – whatever they might be.
Not so much Gordonzilla than Gordon the Gopher ; a glove puppet with establishment puppet masters hand up his backside controlling all.
@Clapper57 says:12 August, 2019 at 2:35 pm:
” perhaps this is a ” It sounded better in my head ” idea.”
That sounds remarkedly like the, very, very, old WWI newspaper cartoon. A man on crutches, bandages from head to toe, and with plaster casts who is saying, … “I don’t know but it seemed like a good idea at the time”
Jings!
Murray the Brit at the start is now a Scot again as he loses his serve. 🙁 3-4 down set 1
Playing OK but 1st serve is p**h. 🙁
What’s not to like
link to t.co
I posted this on the wrong thread, but I’d appreciate an SNP members forwarding this to the party hierarchy, as they appear determined to completely deplete popular trust in the party.
An Analysis of the Moral Content of the Principles
of Equity
link to repository.uchastings.edu
robertknight
There’s that as well. 😉
ALL Wingers MUST read this.
Enjoy…
link to whorattledyourcage.blogspot.com
And here’s another I’d appreciate being forwarded to the science deniers in the SNP hierarchy.
Epigenetics for the social sciences: justice, embodiment, and inheritance in the postgenomic age
link to tandfonline.com
I’m not an anti-constructavist, btw, I appreciate where radical science fits in to our understanding of the world. However, I also understand the differences between men and women, which are fundamentally grounded in biology. Subsequently, sex-classes must remain grounded in biology, if they are to have any practical value.
Complex Constructivism:
A Theoretical Model of Complexity and Cognition
link to pdfs.semanticscholar.org
If there’s one thing Stu’s new political party idea might do and it’s focus the minds of the Labour party in that if they don’t start co-operating with the SNP in some meaningful manner and do it now there’s possibly another party round the corner who’ll relieve them of their list seats and do it for them so there’ll be no list seats at all for them to warm their bums on and that’ll be the end of the Labour party in Scotland completely
Over to you Johaan Lamont, get yer knife out
While we are all navel gazing about how to ensure winning seats, this is happening in the real world:
‘Sweeping powers to impose curfews and alter the law under no-deal Brexit’
Oliver Wright, Policy Editor
August 12 2019, 12:01am,
The Times
FASCIST UK IS EVER NEARER!
re. the Greens. They would be my party if they weren’t a bunch of woke opportunists who support patriarchy. That is why I can’t give them my vote. So an alternative pro-indy party would certainly do for me, though I’m still concerned that it may just be a little too cunning for the poorly educated among Scotland’s electorate. The media will do all it can to twist the concept beyond all recognition. It is the nature of Scotland’s media.
uno mas @ 20:48,
Yes, there’s some telling remarks in there for those wise enough to heed them, even if to me it paints the SNP in the image of just a few of its more extreme and strident adherents. I imagine that the vast proportion of the membership isn’t anything like the “ultra-liberal” gilded youth portrayed. Maybe just a touch of misogynism in the piece too (shades of John Knox and his “monstrous regiment”?), though some of it may come from impatience with an apparent lack of visible progress.
Kerevan in The National today was also somewhat sniffy, hinting in a predictable lefty exceptionalist manner (yes, they’re in the SNP these days too) that it might lead to a “swamp” of “populist slogans” of a presumably rightist kind. As opposed to his unrevealed (and evidently unimplemented) panacea for activating “the schemes”. Strikes me that Stu in his earthy grounded way might have far more success there than George ever will!
My own feeling is that Stu is just currently shaking a few trees to see what falls out. And it is certainly being felt. Putting everyone on notice. If it concentrates a few minds back on the main goal as opposed to unproductive displacement-activity indulgences, he will have done us all a favour.
OT…my apologies, but to get back to the “new” independence party to hoover up the list votes…..no argument from me, but what about local council elections too. After putting a 1 againt the name of the SNP candidate…..what was I left with? WTF. Libertarian? Sally for a better valley (Upper Irvine Valley in case you were wondering)….shower of ‘independents’I knew nothing about…couldn’t bring myself to vote for Lab/Tory/Libthingies….So another purely independence party would have won my vote.
Lochside @ 21:29,
Yes, a worthwhile reminder. If we wait for a year after exit and its “soft coup” with all those Henry VIII powers, we may never escape.
Bill Hume @ 21:41,
Ah, so it’s going to be the NIP now, then? And its adherents presumably “the Nippies”. Who if they’re hard-boiled but go down very well, will be…
…you guessed it! Heh, heh. =grin=
Lochside @ 9.29
Here’s the link to ……………
‘Sweeping powers to impose curfews and alter the law under no-deal Brexit’
link to thetimes.co.uk
These fascists will stop at nothing to maintain control.
A ComRes poll for the Telegraph finds 54% in favour of the propagation of parliament to get brexit done by 31st October.
Scotland needs away from what is no longer only an unfair union but is now a downright dangerous one.
That should be prorogation of parliament, not propagation!
For anyone that isn`t quite sure about the calculations for gaining a regional/list MSP,
and basically the whole raison d’être for the Wings Over Scotland Party,(WOSP)
link to tinyurl.com
Make Alba Great Again 🙂
@kapelmeister
Yes, but as an indication of how “confused” voters are, 51% in the same poll think Brexit should be halted if it threatens to break up the UK. Something not quite right there it would seem.
A ComRes poll for The Telegraph found 54% of the public agree that the prime minister “needs to deliver Brexit by any means, including suspending parliament if necessary, in order to prevent MPs from stopping it”.
The PM has refused to rule out a move to prorogue – or simply dissolve – parliament in the weeks before October 31 to stop politicians passing laws to stop Britain leaving the EU without a deal.
The poll of 2,011 British adults also, however, found 51% of respondents agree that “Brexit should be halted if problems over the Northern Ireland border threaten to split the Union”.
Will not archive.
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
Robert Peffers 20:01
“Your average Winger can spot a false flag indy supporter at a 1,000 paces and that’s just from their comments.”
Unfortunately with that you are completely wrong. I have been accused and I am 100% pro indy and have been for many decades and I know two others who post on Wings who are also 100% indy and have also been similarly accused.
kapelmeister @ 22:24,
Yes, and it can be made to happen simply by arranging a timely election, with Brexit (thanks to Labour’s early HoC support) being the current auto-default. Could be wrong, but I can’t see any way that situation can be challenged in court, nor the current HoC pulling the plug on it beforehand.
And here’s another I’d appreciate being forwarded to the SNP hierachy, who’s legal advisors don’t have a clue, IMHO.
link to scielo.br
Most people in the UK are familiar with the Brexit Story, well at least the first part of it. The second part is not so well understood, but only because it has been kept under wraps. The story hangs on two things. First, Theresa May was a Remainer, who then, for three years pretended to be a committed Brexiteer. She could only have done such a thing under instructions from above. This explains her unopposed ‘elevation’ to No. 10. and the job of Prime Minister.
Second, is the declaration by the newly ‘elected’ PM, Boris Johnson, that the UK would leave the EU on October 31st, “no if’s, no but’s”.
Why would a British Prime Minister be so insistent on committing the UK to economic suicide, and other very serious self-harm besides, unless such a route had been identified as the only way to preserve the Establishment.
Part two, more details.
David Cameron was PM at the time of the EU Referendum. It was his idea, as a means of quelling anti-European disquiet in the Conservative Party. But this was a dreadful mistake. But worse, he believed that Remain would win, as did the British Establishment.
A Leave win then set the cat well and truly among the pigeons. The problem then became an almighty headache for the Ruling Class. How could the Remain voting Establishment, stay in power, and retain all their privileges, when a majority of the voters had turned against them?
Their answer was to pretend that they were actually in favour of leaving the EU.
They did this, so as to retain the political support of not only Conservative voters, but also to attract UKIP supporters, many of whom were former Tory voters. The plan was to do whatever it took to remain in power and to protect the status and position of the Ruling Class in the long term.
That remains the objective.
The current Tory Government under Mr Johnson, is dedicated to achieving that goal. He plans to leave the EU with a No Deal, because that is the only way they can think of to preserve the privileged status of the Establishment, with all its power and wealth intact.
But by doing so, the Establishment, with no choice, is revealing its true colours and showing itself to be a dictatorship.
The UK is already no longer a democracy. Truth be told, it never was.
As a consequence, the Union must and will fail. The end of the UK is close at hand. And with it, the mighty British Empire comes to its end.
Unless of course the whole content of the last three years can be reversed completely. But even if that was possible, the Establishment has revealed their hand. The cat is out of the bag. The game’s a bogey. And all the Queen’s soldiers and all the Queen’s men, can’t put it all back together again.
Here’s another to highlight how support for the proposed changes to the GRA, is not compatible with the aim of achieving independence for Scotland.
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
Evening all,
Have not time to read all the comments, but Rev, has Edwina Currie’s interview on today’s Scottish B.B.C’s Newsdrive been brought to your attention, if not do have a listen, she (E. Currie) was not challenged by the Scottish interviewer on a number of occasions, the interview starts at about 16:50hrs, watch your blood pressure guys !!!.
That includes you Rev.
Court of Session
Tuesday 13th August
LORD DOHERTY
BY ORDER
Between 9.00am and 10.00am
P680/19 Pet: Joanna Cherry &c for Judicial Review
Balfour + Manson LLP and Office of the Advocate General
I would put a second vote to Wings even offer to stand as a Indi majority would be the outcome I hope it happens as waisted votes are not democratic.
I’m not trying to hijack this thread, or undermine the SNP. Their woke-wing is doing a grand job of that by denying science. Subsequently, here’s some more science I’d appreciate the party hierarchy familiarise themselves with.
When feminist standpoint epistemology and participatory research meet: towards knowledges that are more power-aware and inclusive
link to dspace.library.uu.nl
O/T
*Wings stall info*
Hey folks,
The Wings stall will be in attendance at the Aberdeen rally this coming Saturday (17/8).
As far as we know it just now, following the guidance put out by AUOB, we will be in amongst all the other stalls at “the far side of Castlegate nearest the Salvation Army building”.
You’ll spot us a mile away though with our awesome banners!
As you all know we aren’t shy in asking folk to roll up their sleeves – the Friends Of Wings stall is a success because everyone pitches in and makes it so.
If you’re about before the march then come and help us set up, or get in amongst it once the march is over!
Mr Ronnie Anderson will be holding court as usual, dishing out free abuse if that’s your thing 😉
There’s a group of us travelling up from Ayrshire and the all over the Central Belt so we expect to see all you NorthEasters out in force to put on a good show for us!!
If anyone wants to formally register themselves as a volunteer for Aberdeen, or any upcoming events, then leave a message for me on O/T.
See you Saturday 🙂
So many English radio programmes on Scottish Independence with so many English callers insisting that Scotland is a *part* of their country so cannot do what it democratically votes for while at the same time insisting Scotland has no right to say anything about the United Kingdom of England’s Brexit
And they do it all with no irony whatsoever with their very own big uneducated mouths
It may be that only the stupid English folk shout the loudest about their right to own Scotland but if that’s even only ten percent of their population (55 Million), that percentage is more than the entire population of Scotland (5.4 Million) and that’s what got us into the mess we’re in where 10% of another country (England) can dictate and overule the wishes of the entire electorate of Scotland
Is there something about those numbers NO voters don’t understand that no matter what you might ever want or vote for it’ll only be a coincidence that it happens only and unless English voters want it too
But if there’s something English voters want and Scotland doesn’t there’s not a chance in hell of Scotland ever not having to put up with it
Strap on a pair Scotland
Manandboy:
11.09pm
Enjoyed reading your post. The UK union is on it’s deathbed. These two countries, Scotland and England have absolutely nothing in common any more.
It’s over.
My…that Mike Small guy really has a beef in his hornet over Stu putting out the List party theory…and the btl is awful.
Grouse, completely agree with your comments btl on that article, hypocritical little nyaff Small just can’t let go of RISE being soundly told to get tae and he thinks with his mock earnestness that he just wants a simple answer to his questions:
Why’d Stu change his mind. Answer?: because people change their mind and…as he mention to Gary on GMS, he’s clearly been in talks enough to know that it is a potential ‘goer’.
His second question…ah can’t even be bothered to remember it.
As for Petra greetin’ once more about what an awful person he is…oh that’s it…how will people view Stu’s ‘out of context’ comments that Mike quoted in his ATL article, should Stu head up a Wings party? Answer?: They’ll be able to view them in context…as he’ll explain them and people will as adults make up their own minds!
We’ve more chance of gaining more votes with Wings than any with the Green Party. It’s that simple.
The wee blue book probably put the last 5% onto 2014…d’ye really think we cannae dae it?
Aye we can.
Jealous much Mike. Snark, smirk.
Dr Jim @ 00:28,
Ach, it’s the old “10:1 syndrome”. They love us so much they give us equal votes, knowing all the while that they can outvote us on anything they please. Afford us a little space to call our very own? Grudging, restrictive and now desperately keen to claw that back.
No wonder they think it all belongs to them. It does as long as we do nothing about it.
“No wonder they think it all belongs to them. It does as long as we do nothing about it.”
This. It is the duty of all oppressed people to liberate themselves. Otherwise, justice perishes.
José Medina, The Epistemology of Resistance
link to journals.openedition.org
@AndrewAdonis
British nationalism has had over three centuries to sort out Scotland’s democratic deficit. There is no will to do so though. The British Commonwealth was conceived by the ‘left’, as a means of securing political hegemony over the former colonies through federalism, whilst appearing modern and democratic.
So away and fuck yourself, Scotland does not share England’s cultural acceptance of structural racism. Scotland suffers the consequences though (see the full-English Brexit).
Identity Salience, Identity Acceptance, and Policy
Particularism’s Effects on Racial Policy Attitudes
faculty.virginia.edu/apstudy/TransueUVAv2.pdf
K1 @ 12.55
Thing is I did answer his question K1 and he just repeated himself.
I said when the facts change ye change yer mind!
But nope apparently we are all supposed to be held in the same position as the last election… Otherwise its bizarre for him ?
I do hope he is not holding any no voters to that position.
There was a great explanatory post re the breakdown of the D’Hondt AMS system on the previous post by a Irish prof in America , well worth reading it begins
Sean Swan says:
12 August, 2019 at 5:56 am
Hi my name is Sean Swan and I’m Irish. I hold a doctorate in politics from the University of Ulster and currently live in the US. I teach or have taught British Politics at both Gonzaga University and Whitworth University. I mention the fact that I’m a professor of politics only to indicate that I might just know how the AMS electoral system works.
If you read the whole post it highlights the possible real benefits of Stu’s proposal
There is a real pressure building up now, as the media realise the reality of Brexit on their union, and how weak it is right now.
Some may say, broken beyond help.
52% certainly do, but really, its much more than that.
The UK union has had 312 years to transform itself from its initial underhand and aggressive takeover of Scotland and subsequent English dictatorship into a fair and decent modern democratic union. It hasn’t done so, never sees any reason to do so and never will.
The ONLY solution now is to bring this horrendous construct to an end and consign it to the history books just like the rest of the British empire.
Strange but interesting.
Just listening to the morning radio here and Aus is angling for an FTA with the EU. Apparently Geographical Indicators are high on the agenda and second on the EU list is “Scotch Beef”.
Here, Bugman Brodie, did you go and register at cookdandbombd by the way? It’s a spook(y) echo chamber of tranny love where anyone (and I mean anyone) who isn’t into chop-cock suey bathroom-pests gets reeee’d out of town, and they had a real pop at Rev Stu for his radical views. It’s not on.
If you register there and manage to get them to see sense, I’ll totally back you up on your mission here, and I don’t even want paid.
If there was such a position in UK politics as ‘Father of Lies and Prince of Darkness’, then Gordon Brown would be my pick.
Mind you, he has lots of competition, principally from the Tory Ruling Class.
@twathater – link to Sean Swan’s explanation of how the ams voting system works and so how a new indy party could gain seats where the SNP can’t. Worth reading as you say.
Thx Sean!
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Can’t make Aberdeen march so would someone please say a big hello to Ronnie and to my hometown – thanks!
I often think of Westminster politics as fog; thick fog. But that only applies to the past, before 2010,when the Tories got into government. Over the past 9 years, the political fog in the UK has rapidly thickened to it’s present Brexit level, which is impenetrable, unfathomable and perplexing, to the point almost of complete disorientation.
I would even go so far as to say that the UK appears to have lost its compass, certainly politically, and very possibly morally as well.
But I have one caveat, which is that the British Establishment have kept the UK under its control for at least three hundred years, and it would not surprise me if that same Ruling Class is preparing some new scam through which to extend its reign of power, privilege and control.
But that will be for the English alone to resolve by themselves, with or without Wales and the 6 counties known as Northern Ireland. For Scotland has almost made up its mind to divorce its deeply abusive and exploitative Union ‘partner’ of these past 312 years.
I must admit, I had my doubts about the Rev’s notion of a pro-independence party, only contesting the “list” vote for Holyrood.
Then I read Professor Swan’s post, and the big light came on. It would definitely work.
Once the dullards in the pro-Unionist parties mainstream media waken up to this stratagem, however, you can expect all sorts of misinformation shite to be dumped on the notion.
Educating the electorate will, as always, be the main problem.
But, hopefully, we have at least begun the “how will it work” negotiations around ending the UK, before the 2021 Holyrood election.
On which subject. Just suppose we do get Indyref2 done and dusted by mid to late 2020 – less than a year out from the scheduled 2021 Holyrood vote, what happens next?
Common sense might suggest, that 2021 election is delayed, to enable Independence to happen. Then, the newly-independent Scotland goes to the polls to elect its independent parliament.
However, I can see the Unionist parties throwing everything they have into the argument, that the 2021 election should not be delayed, in the hope they can strangle Independent Scotland at birth.