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Wings Over Scotland


Posted on January 02, 1968 by

For off-topic chat. Duh.

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    36548 to “Off-topic”

    1. Dave Mc Ewan Hill says:

      I’ll be ranting on about various things online on Argyll Independent Radio and I’ll give Wings a mention 7pm Rock’n’Roll from 8 pm

    2. Chick McGregor says:


      Don’t know if you read WOS OT while you are on air.

      I’m tuned in right now, you come over really well.

      Will say, the equalisation between voice mic and music is off. The music is much louder which means continual volume control adjustment required.

      Also when you move the cursor off the speaker icon to adjust, the volume control slidebar more often than not disappears

      Maybe just my set up but thought I’d mention it if it helps.

    3. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Thanks, Chick. Got your message halfway through the programme. We’ve had this problem before. Dropped the music levels bit for the rest of the shows.

    4. yesindyref2 says:

      Bloody hell, feels like I’ve spent all day carefully fending off crocodiles, then a big box of packaging boxes (for business) arrives at 19.30 with a wet bottom and some boxes wet. Should have used a nappy. Turns out the delivery van had loads of flowers (Mothers Day) and it wasn’t easy keeping a flaming huge but fairly narrow unstable box out of harm’s way. The things delivery drivers have to do to earn an honest crust. And me come to that, though most of the crocodiles weren’t business ones but about Indy and all that.

      I fucking hate crocodiles.

    5. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh well, this made me laugh about the final crocodile on MT before I go off for some delayed work before getting some zzzzs before the rugby:

    6. Cactus says:

      Less than 28 Scottish days tae go till Gig at Glenrothes.

      And oooooh, new 32,000+ page.

      Fucksake… sumday needs tae hoover ra carpet 😉

      Four weeks today, markin’ it, kick.


    7. Cactus says:

      Me comments tonight have been brought to you in association with common Vodka ‘n’ Coca Cola (full fat sugar).

      Aye ain’t tried the stuff in ages… it’s good… SO far…

      Looking forward to waking up!

      Scotland tomorrow.

      Scotland today.

    8. Cactus says:

      Scotland now.

    9. Cactus says:

      Scotland is now.

      Just putting a WOS tail on it.

      Tee hee.

    10. Cactus says:

      I Love symmetry. 😉

    11. cearc says:

      Aye, and the carpets not improved by having cola spilt all over.

      Where is MS. Daines?

    12. Tinto Chiel says:

      Just ‘cos. Like the percussion as well as that wonderful voice.

    13. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      This comment is prompted by the fact that I was watching ‘Pointless Celebrities’ and, in the ‘head to head’ questions, Wonder Woman was featured.

      (This will probably be of more interest to Smallaxe.)

      When I did my first search on YouTube, years ago, for the “John Dummer Band”, this was the only video that turned up. I thought it was ‘quite clever’ – and did feature Wonder Woman, whom I have always admired. (It’s her eyes…)

      JEEZ! It was uploaded to YouTube in 2007!

    14. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Here’s archive footage of the John Dummer Band performing ‘Nine By Nine’ on French TV. I saw them doing it live at Dundee Uni in 1970/71.

      That was some night. The band’s van broke down on the way up from Glasgow. Supposed to be on stage around 11pm, they eventually made it for just after 1am. The four of us walking home at the back of 3 were asked by a couple of coppers at the Coldside Circle, were we were going and where we had been.

      No hassle…

    15. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Ahoy abody…

      Here’s a wee Sunday night teaser for ye’s all…

      The link below is for a Pogues song, and it shows a still image throughout.

      But who’s in that image who wasn’t actually in the Pogues at that time? And what’s he doing there?

      It’s someone you know.

      Nae merr clues!


    16. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B: that’s teaser. Je n’ai pas de scoobie, mon vieux. Who’s the wee guy skulking at the back?

      Are any Wingers going through on Fri 23/3 to the Hands Around Holyrood Demo?

      I suppose most folk will be at work so it leaves just deadbeats and non-productive members of society like me. Might even wear my beret…..

    17. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Well, according to one of the commenters posting below that video, it’s Elvis Costello, and he was working with the Pogues as a roadie.

      When you look at it again it’s hard to believe anyone could mistake him for anyone else, eh?!


    18. Lucia Daines says:

      No it’s not Elvis Costello and no he was not a roadie – Tinto I’ll be there on the 23rd.

    19. Tinto Chiel says:

      Looking forward to meeting you, Miss Daines.

      Still no movement on the lava lamp situation, I’m afraid.

    20. cearc says:

      There are better cures for constipation than lava lamps (and make sure you clean it proprely if you succeed!

      Can’t do 23rd as I have to go down to the big cities this weekend to get another car.

      Anything good happening in Glasgae (or Edin) on friday night?

    21. Tinto Chiel says:

      cearc: are you thinking of Brownian motion?

      I’ll get my lab coat.

      Found one of my daughter’s LLs after she moved out so now so now I can mesmerise myself and allow my consciousness to roam the multiverse and listen to the music of the spheres.

      Lovely water this…

    22. cearc says:

      Nah, that’s wot that sciency bloke’s cat did or didn’t do in the box.

    23. hackalumpoff says:

      Tinto, Ian B, I’ll be there on 23rd. Also looking forward to meeting Lucia XXX

    24. Tinto Chiel says:

      hackalumpoff: excellent news. I’ll be “under supervision”, hem, hem but hoping for a big turnout.

    25. hackalumpoff says:

      @Tinto, I’ll be under a tinfoil hat to fend off yon psychotronic radiation.

      Or maybe a colander like this chap

      Then again maybe balaclavas will be the new spring fashion..

    26. Lucia Daines says:

      cearc there’s a Yes gathering in Glasgow Saturday afternoon and evening.

    27. Tinto Chiel says:

      Hackalumpoff: I tried walking around the house with a colander to defeat cosmic rays. My wife didn’t approve. Relations became a bit strained

    28. hackalumpoff says:

      @Tinto, Masterchef tip, take the spaghetti out before you walk about with it.

    29. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanx. That explains the sudden rise in temperature.

      Thought it was caused by microwave radiation left over from the Big Bang.

    30. Fred says:

      Already March & my new colander is still in the press!

    31. cearc says:

      I do not look like a plateful of spaghetti and meatballs, I do not look like a plateful of spaghetti and meatballs, I do not….

      (courtesy of Mad magazine eons ago).

    32. cearc says:

      Ms. Daines,

      Thanks for that but I am already doing stuff saturday.

    33. Tinto Chiel says:

      I have been musing deeply about hackalumpoff’s trenchant aperçu re spaghetti and associated tin-foilery. I am now working on a monograph which will explore the link between any strip pasta and string theory.

      Expect regular bulletins.

      cearc: it will all be ok if you just call it polpette al sugo.

      Problem solved.

    34. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      On a completely different topic I had expected a burst of spring this week after our cold snap but I note that our native trees are being a bit reticent. They are still sitting tight and their buds are not bursting into life. I suspect we might still have a another cold spell with frost coming along.

    35. Tinto Chiel says:

      Yep, buds still tight Where I Am, Dave. Snow forecast for the weekend, though my forest flame is showing signs of life.

      *None of the above are metaphors*

      Pasta strip and string theory bulletin: still conceptualising but this song keeps playing in my head:

    36. cearc says:

      I only have a few pullets laying.

      All my mature hens have not started laying despite looking as though they are on lay. I guess they knew.

      Floods of snowdrops though and a few crocus and daffs.

    37. Tinto Chiel says:

      Had a five-o’clock shave and looked in the mirror:

      Get ready for take-off at 2.40…..

    38. Tinto Chiel says:

      While I’m at it:anyone out there gotta fag?

    39. Tinto Chiel says:

      Smallaxe, you witty fellow:

      I’m old enough to remember the original Strand ad.

      And, I adduce:

      “Do you have a light, mac?”

      “No, but I’ve got a light brown overcoat.”

      I’ll get ma Crombie…..

    40. Smallaxe says:

      I fell out of a three story window once but luckily I was wearing my light fawn suit!

      I’m falling so I’m taking my time on my “Ride”

    41. Michael McCabe says:

      Hi Smallaxe good to see you in the groove once more. Anyway got to go as. I’m with Her-See you Around.

    42. Smallaxe says:

      See you around, Michael,

      Good to see you on, my friend.

    43. Smallaxe says:

      “I Hate Politicians”

      Come to think of it, they don’t think too highly of me.

    44. Michael McCabe says:

      Morning Smallaxe. That’s me back again. She’s Gone.

    45. Smallaxe says:

      Morning Michael, she’s gone?

      Love Ain’t Fair;

      But it’s good while it lasts.

    46. Smallaxe says:

      I Just Dropped In (To See What Condition My Condition Was In)–qUOI&ab_channel=jackmoore

      I’ll drop in again soon.

    47. Fred says:

      @ Smallaxe, how’s trix pal, hope you’ve stopped swallyin the Black Russians, Russophobia being what it is these days!

    48. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I hope to have Al McKinnon on my Roundabout Show at 7 pm tomorrow on Argyll Independent Radio. He will be talking not only about the medical uses of cannabis but also the huge other uses of hemp which can make paper, cloth, rope, oil, insulating bricks and animal fodder and which was widely used for these and medical purposes for many years.

      The SNP Scottish Government has asked Westminster to devolve responsibility for the use of medical cannabis to Scotland to no response.

    49. Fred says:

      The elder brother of a notorious Glasgow criminal has been caught with 25 kilo’s of cannabis in his possession but apparently he’s a Buddist monk.
      Om mani padme hum!

    50. Tinto Chiel says:

      @DMH, Fred: since medicinal cannabis has been legalised in California, I believe large areas of marginal land are now being given over to cannabis growing in the West.

      Meanwhile, in other news, I heard a mistle thrush belting it out loud and clear this morning.

      That is all.

    51. Liz Rannoch says:

      Just popped in to ask if anybody knows if there’s loos, parking and cafés near Holyrood? Me and him are going on 23rd but not if there’s nane o the above. Couldnae last a’ day without them!

    52. Smallaxe says:

      Don’t worry, I don’t drink vodka as it has the propensity to turn me into Ghengis Khan in a bad mood.

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      Many thanks for helping to bring the benefits of cannabis into the public domain, as you will probably know, I have an incurable blood cancer which according to the oncologists should have killed me off several years ago.
      I put my survival down to the fact that cannabis oil in a dose of 1Mltr per day has kept me alive thus far, for legal reasons I can’t keep this oil at home as once it’s turned into oil it becomes a class A drug so I could be prosecuted and have a criminal record just for trying to save my own life. This plant has many uses as no doubt your guest will explain on your programme.

      I fully agree that this herb should be rigorously examined by people qualified in this area and made available to any cancer or MS sufferer and others who could benefit greatly from its use.
      Rick Simpson Oil;
      Thanks again Dave. Respect!

    53. Smallaxe says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      10 March, 2018 at 8:55 pm
      “This comment is prompted by the fact that I was watching ‘Pointless Celebrities’ and, in the ‘head to head’ questions, Wonder Woman was featured.

      (This will probably be of more interest to Smallaxe.)

      When I did my first search on YouTube, years ago, for the “John Dummer Band”, this was the only video that turned up. I thought it was ‘quite clever’ – and did feature Wonder Woman, whom I have always admired. (It’s her eyes…)”

      Thanks Brian, I’ve just noticed the post you typed above and coincidently just received a copy of John Dummer’s Famous Music Band “Blue” album on cd from Amazon this morning, so consider this track dedicated to you, my friend.

    54. Smallaxe says:

      Tinto, Tinto, where art thou my tree-hugging compadre and long-tailed tit tormenting twitcher;

      “For the Birds”

      Pluck it!

    55. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Thanks for that Smallaxe.

      When they played that at the Uni, it was introduced as “Nine Bar Blues”. When the “Famous Music Band” album was released, it had changed to “Nine By Nine”.

      BTW: all their albums are available on CD, as far as I know. I bought a reissued vinyl version of their second album and burned it onto CD. Managed to get the rest via eBay and/or Amazon. (All my JDB albums were pinched in the great album heist at the Bowlin’ Alley in the late 70s.)

    56. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Your “birds” mention started my brainbocker cogwheels turning. Stay with me…

      The lyrics of this song are based on a passage in Ecclesiastes 3.

      Lyrics and title

      The lyrics are taken almost verbatim from the book of Ecclesiastes, as found in the King James Version (1611) of the Bible[2] (Ecclesiastes 3:1-8), though the sequence of the words was rearranged for the song. Ecclesiastes is traditionally ascribed to King Solomon who would have written it in the 10th century BC, but believed by a significant group of biblical scholars to date much later, up to the third century BC.[3]

      To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
      A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, a time to reap that which is planted;
      A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
      A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
      A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
      A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
      A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
      A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
      A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

      That’s from:-!_Turn!_Turn!

      I’ve always liked that single so imagine my surprise at my Mum’s funeral in 1999 when that passage was read out. I’ve no idea why – maybe it was one of her favourites. Must ask my sister. Funeral was arranged by my Dad.


    57. Smallaxe says:

      You’re most welcome Brian,

      I intend to buy more of JDs music, I haven’t found a track yet that I don’t like. This one, as you know is from the “Cabal” album.
      The John Dummer Blues Band: “When You Got A Good Friend”

    58. yesindyref2 says:

      I’m just going to play this again. Why? Because it’s AWESOME that’s why.

      I think we should get this on screens, stages, streets, windows, music boxes, outside polling station all over Scotland on YES day, err, I mean Indy Ref 2 day. Who on earth could even think of voting NO after this?

    59. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Smallaxe at 7.25

      Thanks Smallaxe. Alastair also has a serious health issue and he is very clued up on this.We’ll see how much he can tell us from 7pm tomorrow.

      Problem we face is the careless conflation of the medical uses of cannabis and the multitudinous uses of the hemp plant with the “recreational” use which is a different issue (which we also need to think seriously about).

    60. Tinto Chiel says:

      Smallaxe: I’m here, pouring the cognacs. Hope Miss Daines turns up with the blinis and smoked salmon.

      Hugged a tulip tree today: there’s one down the bird reserve and it’s quite unusual to find a foreign species down there. Must have been planted by the estate gardener a long time ago.

      We are all stardust, mon vieux.

    61. Smallaxe says:

      Talking of biblical songs Brian gives me the perfect excuse to play this song based on the text below!
      Mathew 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

      “Small Axe” Robert Nesta ‘Bob’ Marley, OM (Order of Merit)

    62. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A well put together video, yesindyref2.

      I like this.

    63. Smallaxe says:

      Good luck, with your programme Dave, I’ll be listening in.


      I hope that’s Remy Martin Champagne Cognac that you’re opening, I have very expensive tastes, don’t cha know.

      “We Are Stardust” (Woodstock) Matthews Southern Comfort;

      Southern Comfort, also acceptable.

    64. Tinto Chiel says:

      MSC: the best version, Smallaxe, imho.

      Spirits optional, of course.

    65. yesindyref2 says:

      I suspect they support Independence 🙂

      Yes, maybe some tracks put together and people with cars as well playing them loud through the day, get the mood.

      For that dance one that Km Music have got some good ones, I was watching a fair few some nights ago, there’s what is love, rhythym is a dancer and so on. Daresay they’d have to be paid for the performing rights for anything formal. Could be done even with mobile phones and bluetooth, or laptops.

      I think we’d (or Gerenation YES is it?) need to get some dance classes going early, get loads, thousands, a hundred thousand into it, taking the hands of the old ones (being careful not to break them!) and dancing them into a YES polling station. Who could resist? Might even get a laugh and a YES vote out of that James Kelly and Murdo Fraser 🙂

      Dance and smile Scotland to YES. It’s music wot dunnit.

    66. Smallaxe says:

      Only the best for O/T, Tinto, no rubbish here.

      How about some Highland Dancing, lads?

    67. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi yesindyref2.
      This was one of the first “mashups” I found when I first started exploring Youtube. I revisit yearly.

    68. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Another Scottish band who seem to have disappeared from the Scottish gig circuit. This was filmed in Switzerland (I guess from the comments below).

    69. Fred says:

      @ Tinto, anent Tulip Trees, there’s about half a dozen planted at Morrison’s in Glasgow’s Gallowgate! also three Giant Redwoods opposite the Ranza Bar in Provanmill.

      @ Smallaxe, thanks for young Fran & Anna wagglin their wallies as Jack McLaughlin used to have it! How aboot something classy like Neil Gow’s “Lament for the Death of his Second Wife?”

    70. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Highland dancing, Smallaxe?

      How about some Scottish cross country reggae dancing?

      (You may have to download then play.)

    71. Smallaxe says:


      Niel Gow’s ‘Lament for the Death of his Second Wife’

      You’re welcome.

      Sorry but I’m not to swift atm.

    72. Smallaxe says:

      Got it Brian, thanks, enjoyed that.

      Try this;
      “Power of Scotland”

    73. Smallaxe says:

      Naebdy aboot, I’ll play this.
      X certificate

      “A Boy Named Sue” Glasgow Version;

    74. cearc says:

      Tulip tree in my garden as well, a bit wee still.

    75. Smallaxe says:

      For those who drank in John Waterson’s Burns Howff,

      Stone the Crows:”Freedom Road”

      Any old Dug Hoose drinkers in tonight?

    76. Tinto Chiel says:

      I love tulip trees for their leaf shape: passing strange.

      My Asian newsagent is quite a filosifer. I was buying my Vile Sep News and other requisites this morning and after he’d finished totalling my stuff he said, “Is that you?”

      “Yup, that’s me,” says I.

      Then he looked lingeringly and significantly at me and said, “Are you sure?”

      Things can get pretty deep at my corner shop…..

    77. Fred says:

      @ Smallaxe, many thanks for Neil Gow, chust sublime, listened to the other versions as well.

      Burns’Howff I mind & Jackson’s also, plus a dozen odd mair in Parley Road. Ma Gramps drank in the Trossachs.

      @ Tinto, have you read James Jauncey’s, “The Witness”? An armed uprising in the Highlands of the future. Liked this book, a bit Cone-Gatherer-ish & the author is a gt nephew of Don Roberto.

    78. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks for that, Fred. I see it gets good reviews. Have taken a punt on it since I’m really a multi-millionaire.

      In return: The Douglas Affair by Alistair Mair (M.D.). Have you ever? Fifty years old but bang up to date. If reprinted it would sell like hot cakes, or even cold cakes. I’ve lent two copies over the years and never got them back. Chilling and believable.

      Kinda getting suspicious as to why it languishes in obscurity.

      Memo to senior SNP politicians: never drive down The Switchback…

    79. Fred says:

      Tinto, read it kid VG. Just started Devine’s “The Scottish Nation!” so that’ll take a wee while eh?

      Any sign of Petra yet? she thinks the site is a Troll-Show now. she could be right!

      Wishing the Mankies a good weekend! Spaciba Bolshoi for this weeks crack!

    80. Tinto Chiel says:

      Think Petra’s taking a wee break. Things certainly haven’t improved in the Tumshie Stakes on the M/T since her absence, have they?

      Have a good weekend yourself. I’m going out for more snow shoes and Harvey’s knitting a new muffler.

      Would be interested in your views on Devine’s tome.

      I have my own, of course……..

      *enigmatic smile*

    81. Ian Brotherhood says:

      How youse doin there?

      Watched ‘Murder Most Foul’ last night. Soo-perb. Was sure I’d seen it as a child but no, it was new for me and thoroughly enjoyed it, esp the music:

    82. Tinto Chiel says:

      Evening, Ian.

      May I offer you something really weird?

      Now I know what my newsagent meant this morning…..

    83. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Cheers TC, that ‘made’ my evening. Can’t wait to give it a miss.

      One has to wonder what yon Jakey wummin would’ve written had she sold her soul to Santa instead…


    84. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC –

      Aside from anything else, what incentive does such dross provide for genuine actors to work on their craft?

      Ian Dury knocked back £1 million gig to do ‘CATS’ lyrics for Lloyd-Webber because he couldn’t stomach the guy’s music. And that was, what, 30 years ago? (Richard Stilgoe ended up doing it.)

      The array of wonderful actors in that clip have banked ??? squidlings, they’re working elsewhere now, it’s all over. But what did they get from it otherwise? And what do they expect/hope the audience will get from their performances?

      Ach well, I suppose the most likely defence would be ‘If I hadn’t done it someone else would’ve had to!’

      Aye. Indeed. How often have we heard that one in other contexts?

    85. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Shinty (10.42) –


      Hoots aplenty!

    86. Macart says:

      Anyone know if there’s going to be a Wings presence at the AOUB Glasgow rally in May?

    87. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Macart.

      Ronnie Anderson organises the WOS stall. The May march/rally is a two pronged effort. The march is AUOB and the rally in George Square is Hope over Fear/Solidarity.

      I think there is a problem in that Hope Over Fear are looking for cash up front from potential stalls in George Square.

      Ronnie will know more.

    88. Macart says:

      Cheers Brian

      I’ll keep an eye open nearer the time.

    89. Lucia Daines says:

      Liz rannoch – loos in the vicinity, 1/2 hour of birthday left – still sober. off to twitterland.

    90. Fred says:

      @ Shinty, a good yin!

    91. Tinto Chiel says:

      Ian B: I’m still looking for a talent I can shamelessly prostitute for oodles of shekels.

      Thanks for the Frankie Boyle clip, Shinty. After independence he’d be an obvious candidate for Scottish ambassador in NY or London.

    92. Tinto Chiel says:

      DMH: I know Wings is not perhaps the ideal forum, and the Rev might not approve, but a main thread article on Syria from you might be able to provide a coherent and informed account of a subject which has been shamefully distorted by the MSM for over four years.

      The Salisbury Incident is surely just a small piece in a much bigger jig-saw.

      Just a thought.

    93. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Indy2 and Rock are really Fükkin’ up the main pages, iye?

    94. Shinty says:

      BDTT – as I see it, this will continue and increase as we get closer to indy.
      Try to ignore and post something of interest below each of their comments.

      Meanwhile chill and listen to one of God’s angels (not religious by the way, but don’t know how else to describe this)

    95. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Tinto Chiel at 10.06

      An idea worth considering. Would be better if somebody like Eva Bartlett, Vanessa Beeley or John Pilger could be persuaded to give us a piece

      It is a far from simple situation. Both Beeley and Bartlett are routinely abused as apologists for the “the butcher” Assad.

      Regarless of the behaviour of Assad their is no doubt that the US/UK have been plotting to remove him since about 2009 and the fiction that there is a civil war in Syria is used to obscure the fact that what Syria is fighting against is an invasion of Syria by externally armed and very well funded Islamic fanatics.

    96. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Tinto Chiel at 10.06

      An idea worth considering. Would be better if somebody like Eva Bartlett, Vanessa Beeley or John Pilger could be persuaded to give us a piece

      It is a far from simple situation. Both Beeley and Bartlett are routinely abused as apologists for the “the butcher” Assad.

      Regardless of the behaviour of Assad there is no doubt that the US/UK have been plotting to remove him since about 2009 and the fiction that there is a civil war in Syria is used to obscure the fact that what Syria is fighting against is an invasion of Syria by externally armed and very well funded Islamic fanatics.

    97. Tinto Chiel says:

      @DMH: indeed, I can understand that. The USA and UK will use any weapon to further their planet-ravaging ends. Ironically, they will spend billions short-sightedly supporting Muslim terrorists against peace-loving Muslims if it furthers their aims of weakening the Soviet Union/Russia/any opponent of Saudi Arabia/Israel.

      Craig Murray has produced some excellent blogs on the whole Salisbury Incident over the last few days, as you are probably aware.

      I can’t believe the Russophobe MSM of the last fortnight: crazy and utterly irresponsible propaganda.

      I’m beginning to think they’re bigging up Strong&StableTreeza for an impending GE: the Britnats love a good war footing.

    98. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Tinto Chiel at 9.45

      This is an interesting introduction. Lots of the Jimmy Dore Show on YouTube

    99. yesindyref2 says:

      Dr Jim’s right on MT, it is an “attempt to get this site shut down by filling it up with badness”, or at least discredit it completely. A couple have tried picking on regular posters to provoke a reaction, but another couple are trying to stir up threats and abuse in response to theirs. Response is best ignore or treat with humour I think, within limits that’s not against the law!

    100. Ghillie says:

      Liz G and Robert Peffers,

      Hugs from me. Those were ghastly attacks.

      What does strike me though is the panic in their tone.

      And Wingers all held the line with decency and integrity =)

      Ach here’s another couple wee hugs =)xxx

    101. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks for that, Dave. Something else you’ll never see on mainstream broadcasting in the UK.

      Yet the only Syrian commenter that Pravdasound4 seems to know of is the wee guy in his English bedroom who calls himself the Observatory.

      The sad thing is the American military-industrial complex must have perpetual wars or their profits fall. The “Allied” actions in Libya and Iraq were all about oil, yet they destabilised secular heads of state and fragmented both societies by terrorism or religious extremism.

      I see we have an infestation on the M/T. Obvs all that money racking up for the Rev is getting them into an hysterical state. Quite why anyone replies directly to them amazes me. The only thing worth reading at the mo is Nana’s links.

      All their nonsense is a big turn-off and needs to be dealt with. Can hardly be bothered myself to read the blt comments myself.

    102. Nana says:


      Just read the comment directed at you on the MT, nasty.
      Don’t let it get you down Liz, they hope for a reaction and to stop you from commenting. Hugs to you 🙂

    103. William Wallace says:

      @ Lizg

      What Nana said. You are a lovely person and thanks for always taking the time to look out for others (myself included). Keep on keeping on. Big hugs. x

    104. Macart says:


      Just what Nana said.

      This site has six figure views every month and most reasoning human beings will know those who post with consideration for others and those who do not. That’s a LOT of people and they’re not stupid. They can see what we can see.

      Move on past and talk to those friendly and weel kent faces you are happy with. I’m always happy to chat with friends. 🙂

    105. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Tinto Chiel at 9.46

      The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights,as you point out, is wee single guy in a semi detached house in Coventry. He hasn’t been in Syria for fifteen years and fled the country fearing arrest for anti Syrian behaviour. He is an Islamic fundamentalist opposed to Assad’s secular regime and has absolutely no reliable information about Syria as all the information he has he gets from friends on the phone. Yet he is regularly featured in our media.

      I actually find the huge lie we are being fed about Syria and the Middle East now the most compelling reason now for us to get out of this UK – and I never needed any other compelling reason than the ones I have had since I was a teenager.

      If our decent people knew the depths of wicked depravity of the US/UK axis we would very soon be independent.

      I wish I knew a way to get the whole truth to them.

    106. Tinto Chiel says:

      “I wish I knew a way to get the whole truth to them.”

      Ditto, DMH.

    107. Fred says:

      What is needed are a couple of Moderators on here, nae mair prob’s. Personally I would like a button to administer electric shox!

    108. cearc says:

      I looked at MT early hours yesterday morning, catching up from travelling. It was dire. I haven’t looked since.

      Whereas, I always uaed to catch up on threads I now rarely do if they’ve been running a couple of days as it’s always the same. I am actually less annoyed by the trolls than I am by the people who insist on answering them, that is what really destroys the thread.

      Regardless of how provocative or insulting they are if everyone refrained from responding they would have no effect.

      It can be hard to I know, especially personal attacks but everytime anyone responds to even one of their comments they are winning in their aim to disrupt.

    109. Liz g says:

      Thank you all very much for your kind comments..
      I won’t stop posting.

      But I will be taking Macarts advice and not be engaging with the fool’s…. Or a least tryin harder not to….I didn’t actually recognise that poster’s name last night,before responding.
      …….Note to self ….pay more attention….

      Anyhoo, let’s just (as William said) keep on keepin on!
      Hopefully last nights carry on will have a bit of a Streisand effect for those who try to disrupt….

    110. Tinto Chiel says:

      Quite so, cearc. I’m going to give it a miss myself for quite (a long?) while. The foul-mouthed abuse last night was completely unacceptable.

      I may pop in here for the occasional sausage-sizzle round the camp fire and a dose of Kumbaya, but that’s about it, I think. Think I may have reached my Petra Moment.


    111. Fred says:

      How come U don’t get wummin trolls? well, unless the Rocket is a wummin? Possible subject for a PhD, naw! Chin up Liz, where’s that Petra when U need her!

    112. Liz g says:

      Fred @ 10.20
      Will do Fred thanks.
      I miss Petra too and I am sure she would vote with me fur you tae be in charge o’ the shox button.LOL
      As fur wummin troll’s ….cause they’re aw in the Tory party, and typings beneath them…well that’s wan explanation…!!

    113. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      As you know I felt like that for a bit and came on here to moan about it, Things is I know that that is what they want to get rid of the good guys and gals.

      I made my mind up after yesterdays episode with the abuse Liz g got and today I came out fighting, have a read of the posts on the main thread on todays topic.

      Rock slinked off with nary a word. They won’t be pushing me off this site, I’m a stuborn auld git and I’ll push back. Bit more subtly than I would have done in the run up to 2014.

      Older and wiser when it comes to posting online but the still the same guy but I’ve learned to bite my tongue as I know others are reading and I want their support for Independence.

      Best we can do now is totally ignore and only respond nevr by name but just to make them look foolish. Please stay 🙂

      PS I don’t think kinters will be back.

    114. Thepnr says:

      And only 5 minutes later my PS is proven to be wrong.

    115. Tinto Chiel says:

      As I said, Alex, I may drop in here occasionally to see if the lava lamp reappears and to get the barbie on.

      I hardly contribute anything on the M/T onywise and many others say things better and quicker so I’m off to contemplate my omphalos.

      I may be some time, hee, hee.

      P.S.: Hope to see some Wingers on Friday at Holyrood.

    116. Fred says:

      @ Thepnr, ye look young in yer photie!

    117. Smallaxe says:

      Tinto Chiel and all of the rest of the people who ‘used’ to be frequent visitors to O/T get your arses back here and show the unionist trolls that we can laugh in their faces.
      Are we going to let a shower of bastards on the Main Thread who support this Corrupt, Rotten, Paedophile Protecting Government and the BBC stop us from showing them the contempt that they deserve?

      We are Scots, we do not retreat. Either ignore the trolls or rip the shit out of them verbally but FFS get O/T moving again, tell a story, play some music or share your thoughts and worries here, amongst friends and fellow Patriots, one of our own my dear friend Liz g was abused by a unionist pig on the main thread just the other night, are we going to let this continue?

      I’m not and I don’t think all you people will either, so let’s get things moving again on O/T and let them know that they will never keep us down!

      Caesar!nnach:”Scotland Is Her Name”

      Will Ye No Come Back Again?

      Here’s tae us, wha’s like us.Tae Hell wi’ the union!

    118. hackalumpoff says:

      Thanks Smallaxe, badly needed.
      I think if the Rev was seen to sort out some Trolls he might get a bit more cash from the 99% who couldn’t contribute to OUR fundraiser.

      Some motivation.

    119. Smallaxe says:

      Thank you, Hackalumpoff,

      I hope you and your good lady are well, I wish you both and your family Peace Love and Happiness, always.

      “Scotland Is Ma Hame”

      Gie us yer money Wingers!

    120. Smallaxe says:

      Loch Lomond Lyrics – Runrig Ft. The Tartan Army

      Money is our ammunition, fire away Wingers

    121. Smallaxe says:


      Donate or remain a slave! They say that Scots are tight, let’s show them different.

    122. Tinto Chiel says:

      I’ll pop back in once I’ve finished running up these curtains for the Ladies’ Excuse Me in the PRMG, Smallaxe.

      Having some emotional realignment at the mo.


    123. Smallaxe says:

      I’m waiting!

      Pink Floyd:”Money”

      The love of money is the root of all EVEL!

    124. Smallaxe says:


      My friend and fashionable fellow let’s fill the future of Wings with filthy lucre.
      Al Jolson:”Brother can you spare a Dime”

      Let’s build a great Nation for our children and grandchildren and all who come after.

    125. Smallaxe says:

      Keep them running, it’s been done before!

      Johnny Horton:”Battle of New Orleans”

    126. Nana says:

      Hello Smallaxe, good to see you at the turntable:)

    127. hackalumpoff says:

      OK then Smallaxe here’s Van M on aboot money.

    128. hackalumpoff says:

      I’m sure Johnny CASH qualifies so this is one for Smallaxe.

    129. Tinto Chiel says:

      I’m quite busy, Smallaxe: my wee Singer’s rid het.

      Nevertheless: saw a strange product in a Yoon supermarket last week (I only darken its portals to place copies of The National on top of the daily dreadfuls). It was a large sack with the words Whisky Smoking Chips.

      I immediately thought, “Sounds like a great Scottish night in.”

      And all in a handy bag…

    130. Smallaxe says:

      O’JAYS:”For The Love Of Money”

      For the Love of Scotland, give us your money!

    131. hackalumpoff says:

      You really get your money’s worth if you find this on the jukebox.
      Are they still thing?

      Heart of The Sunrise by Yes.

    132. Smallaxe says:

      Remember people,

      Curtis Mayfield:”We Got To Have Peace”

      That’s a must!

    133. Smallaxe says:

      Try a “Moondance” in the Kelvingrove park, Hackalumpoff,

    134. Smallaxe says:

      Unable to donate now?
      How about on;

      “Wages day” Deacon Blue;

    135. hackalumpoff says:

      Dance, with my feet Smallaxe?
      Mrs Hackalumpoff is ROFLHAO.

    136. Smallaxe says:


      “Give me Your Money” Warning, shaking bahookies;

    137. William Wallace says:

      @ Sma 6:03pm

      Amen to that brother.

      Good to see you up and aboot and in good spirits. I’d contribute mair tae aff-topic but, dinnae really hae much to say for myself the now or at least much that fowk here would want to hear. Dinnae want to be dragging the place doon wi my tales of woe either as I can see people are pissed off enough with what is happening over on the MT’s.

      I will make a bit more effort to contribute something funny, artistic or entertaining over the coming weeks to help shake the dust aff the furniture and the cobwebs aff the ceiling. Miss reading the banter on aff topic myself. It’s been affy quiet this year really.

      Good to see you back and getting in amongst it though.

    138. Smallaxe says:

      William Wallace,

      What are you worried about, they’re all fed up with me but I just keep going.
      Email me if you want to talk, my friend.

    139. Smallaxe says:

      Big Phil,

      This one is for you,
      Elvis:”Money Honey”

    140. hackalumpoff says:

      Dedicated to Mrs Hackalumpoff and for everyone struggling with cash and/or Zero hours contracts.

      Joan Baez

      Good book about the zero hours evil – Hired: Six Months Undercover in Low-wage Britain by James Bloodworth.

    141. William Wallace says:

      @ Sma

      Naebody could ever be fed up o you my friend. You are truly one of a kind an abody on here holds you in the highest regard. Truth is, the place is just no the same when you are gone. Will drop you an email soon.

    142. Smallaxe says:

      Another one, for my, and Scotlands dear friend, Mrs Hackalumpoff.

      “Forever Young” Joan Baez;

      Take it easy, Mrs Wumman.

    143. Smallaxe says:


      I’ll look forward to hearing from you, just when you’re ready, no hassle my friend.
      This one is for you;

    144. Smallaxe says:

      C’mon people, we even take dollars!

      Start the Bidding!

    145. hackalumpoff says:

      Crofters Scat from the Bard.

    146. hackalumpoff says:

      Last one tonight, just for Bertie, the Fishermans Fiend.

    147. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Following my interview with Alastair McKinnon on AIR last Friday about the uses of Hemp and the medical use of cannabis he has sent me some links.
      The one below was prepared for the SNP Conference resolution on the medical use of cannabis and uses of hemp. The SNP subsequently asked Westminster to devolve permits on the matter to the Scottish Parliament to no avail. Alastair will be on my show again on Friday at 7pm. This is something the SNP Government should be pressing.
      I’ll send some other links but they are all worth reading.

    148. Smallaxe says:

      Traditional Scottish Gaelic “Mouth music” -“Capercaillie”

      I hope everybody was singing along.

      Another one for the pot!
      Excuse me, while I light my spliff; “Easy Skanking”

    149. Thepnr says:

      Is this the fightback!

      Music overload today lol, could only manage Johnny Cash from hackalumpoff , Pink Floyd and Deacon Blue before my urge to post took over 🙂

      Good to have you back Smallaxe and you William Wallace, good tunes hackalumpoff, well the one I watched anyway 🙂

      I agree with the sentiment of let’s laugh in their faces, sure it’s a long slog but we knew that anyway. Here’s a great tune from a movement that never gave up until they achieved their goal.

    150. Thepnr says:

      Know what I would like? A wee program that would read all the youtube links on an Off Topic page then play them one by one in the background.

      Then I could carry on with my surfing and never miss a tune just like having the radio on. Off Topic radio has a certain ring to it then I’d only need to pop in now and again to see what’s what and maybe add my own tune.

      That must be easy to do, not for me but there are are people who could do that easily. Hmmm might look into that further. Meantime.

    151. Smallaxe says:


      Don’t you hang about here for too long, the fightback started a long time ago and you’re one of our best fighters on the Main Thread SO GET OVER THERE!

      Stand Up For Your Rights;

    152. hackalumpoff says:

      Anent Bertie and the fash:

      Odd address hope the link works, if not try :

    153. Smallaxe says:


      The link works just fine… but “Use Tories For Bait?”

      The only fish that would eat them follow the Sludge Boat, mind you, wee Fluffy’s beard would probably work.
      The Selecter:”On My Radio”

    154. Smallaxe says:

      I’m going to lurk on the main thread… and then

      “I’m Going Home”

    155. Cactus says:

      Let us all watch the main thread grow.

      Ah’ve started watching the ‘True Blood’ boxset.

      Give me your yummy V Sookie.


    156. Thepnr says:

      Here’s a bass guitar solo that is VERY topical.

      It’s from a song called “The Fish” from the band “YES” and was played on their “Union Tour”

      How weird is that LOL 🙂

    157. Fred says:


      Good to see U back Smallaxe! zat a sewin machine ah hear? used tae make them in another life! hated that job!

    158. Smallaxe says:

      Hi Cactus, 🙂

      Thepnr, bass?

      Jack Bruce:

      Whit did ah tell you! Get Back and fight. 😉

    159. Thepnr says:


      I missed the bass reference LOL funny as fuck, we can be heroes!

    160. Smallaxe says:

      Fred, if you used tae make sewing machines, dis that mean yer a good Singer!

      Coat oan!

    161. Thepnr says:

      I had to use the old Singer peddle sewing machine for a short spell in my life. Forced labour it was got pretty good at it too.

      Hahaha, memories eh!

    162. Fred says:

      Singer’s assembly lines were very depressing, the goldfish in the canal kept me sane. They were originally in a pond in Singers but made a break for it to the canal & multiplied! Are they still there one wonders?

    163. Smallaxe says:


      I used tae sew mailbags and ah didnae hiv a fckn sewin’ machine!
      The Prisoner;

    164. Thepnr says:


      “We Are Number One” was great, I think I got it 🙂

    165. Smallaxe says:


      Don’t blame me, you asked for this,
      She’s Got It;

    166. Smallaxe says:

      Thepnr, I saw your message will reply soon.

      To any Wingers who look in tonight or whenever, be nice to each other, excepting those who we all know, we are all here doing what we can to free our Kingdom Nation from this accursed union. I hope that day comes quickly and Peacefully.
      Peace and Love to you All, I wish for you what I wish for myself.

      Go Placidly with;

      (Namaste, Little Sister)

    167. Cactus says:

      Hehe, notsobritnats are like dem ‘shape-shifters’.



      Yer toenail cutting:

      Aye ahm a vampire, ah ah ah, seven.

      Drink V.

    168. Liz g says:

      That’s quite a bit of magic you’ve worked there Smallaxe .
      The whole thread’s jumping…

      Stay well my dear friend and as always love to Mrs Smallaxe X

    169. cearc says:

      Looks like someone spiked the water in here tonight, slainte.

    170. K1 says:

      Mellow and profound. ‘Pacing The Cage’ Bruce Cockburn

    171. Thepnr says:

      Sláinte cearc and Liz g 🙂

    172. K1 says:

      ‘Solid Air’ converted to 432Hz…whole album, rich and smooth:

    173. Macart says:

      Good to see you Smallaxe. 🙂

    174. Smallaxe says:


      Thanks, I’ll need to rest up for a while now but I hope to be back soon, my friend.

    175. Fred says:

      Thoughtful stuff last night! hope they’re looking in at Coatbridge Analytica & learning something!

    176. Lucia Daines says:

      Bit much when special forces are disbanded and prevented from engaging.

    177. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Another very useful link to the debate about the medical uses of cannabis.

      Clinical Application of Cannabinoids and Terpenes

    178. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I’ve always had the temptation to write a limerick featuring Sanquar. An opportunity now presents itself.

      A pathetic example from Sanquar
      Is responsible for much current rancour
      An airfreshener was sprayed
      On a wee girl dismayed
      He’s obviously a manky old …… can’t quite get the last line yet.
      “Labour councillor” doesn’t quite rhyme

    179. cearc says:

      ‘A rose by any other name…’

      Just get on with the dusting!

    180. Tinto Chiel says:

      Great to see the thoosands and thoosands of beautiful people (and dogs, bizarrely) around Holyrood today, who managed easily to surround the parliament and make the whole thing a great spectacle. Makes me seem very optimistic for Indy2mageddon.

      Paul Kavanagh and Craig Murray were there, and many famous Wingers too, some lovelier than others.

      Such a pity the BBC couldn’t make it. Maybe too cold and bright for the cameras.

    181. Smallaxe says:


      Well done, I’m proud of you. A wee word of warning, if you go on the M/T ffs don’t mention dugs!

    182. Liz Rannoch says:

      Tinto Chiel @ 7.48pm

      They were there – in disguise I think. Their clip – a very quick pan – of the crowd must have been taken about 11.30am cos the view of the 2 Wings flags was about the time me and him were edging up to Ronnie Anderson. I was rather nervous – trembling appropriately – and blurted out ‘and who are you?’ Like some school marmish idiot!
      I was also introduced to Paula Rose and another guy and woman whose names I didn’t quite catch, half deaf you know.
      Anyway none of them recognised me as Liz Rannoch.

      Anyhow, great day, sun shining lots of good speeches and music. I looked all day and never saw a ‘big camera’ so as not to stand out (and be mauled!) On EBC web thingy as ‘Power Grab’ protest at Holyrood. On telly as 1500 attending hmmm?

    183. Michael McCabe says:

      Good Evening Smallaxe. Since Fish has been in the News recently I thought I would play this. Hoping you are taking it easy my Friend.

    184. Liz Rannoch says:

      Note to self.

      Tinto Chiel @ 6.48 – not 7.48 Numptie

    185. Liz Rannoch says:

      Note to self. Numptie

      Tinto Chiel @ 6.48 – not 7.48.

    186. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Michael.

      When you mentioned (capitalised) “Fish”, I thought you were linking to this chap.

      But I was at thewrong end of the fin, without a paddle…

    187. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Michael.

      When you mentioned (capitalised) “Fish”, I thought you were linking to this chap.

      But I was at the wrong end of the fin, without a paddle…

    188. Smallaxe says:

      Hi Michael,

      Beautiful song, Thank you. I’ve got no other choice than to take it easy atm but I’m getting there.

      Not only fish live in the sea,

      I hope you are well, my friend.

    189. Smallaxe says:


      A country boy should know, how to bait a hook.

    190. Tinto Chiel says:

      Liz R: sorry I missed you. No sign of Paula Rose 😉 but I met Miss Lucia Daines, whose limpid, crystalline beauty transcends the earthier charms that PR used to radiate, imho.

      Great to meet Big Ronnie and Bob The Builder again, crazycat and Jeanie frae Dundee and that rarest of rarae aves, the lesser-spotted John King (jdman) a masterly Twitter warrior but sadly missed here. Peter A Bell there too but only saw him from a distance.

      Smallaxe: you would have been heartened today: a great turnout, almost exclusively from the “vintage people” hem hem and lots of English voices in the crowds, too. I thought they were predominantly No voters? Hope to see you in Freedom Square in May, old mole.

      Seasick Steve came up with the great one liner, “I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left.” Know how he feels

      Btw, if anyone wishes to have a disturbed night’s sleep, read the short story “Pollock and the Porroh Man” by HG Wells (I think), available on line. I read it when a nipper and it was rather unsettling.

      Didn’t affect me, affect me, affect me, affect me, affect me………………………………………………..

      BDTT: I know you were working but sorry to have missed you (and Thepnr, for the same reason). We intellectuals must stick together.

    191. Smallaxe says:


      I watched it on Livestream (courtesy of Nana), I heard from a friend that a lot more turned up at lunchtime.
      I was looking for you but I think the cameraman realised that if he showed you that the other lovely people would look drab in comparison.

      How did You Look?;!ny

    192. Michael McCabe says:

      Hi Brian Doonthetoon Thanks for the Fish song. I kind of found this and thought it might be up your Street ? Anyway hope you and yours are alright also Pete the Camera.

    193. Thepnr says:

      Hope all you fine folk that made it along to Holyrood today had a grand time despite the weather. I had planned to go but a last minute offer of work when it is scarce couldn’t be refused.

      Always next time and there will be a next time. Well done all.

      Fancy a bit of rap :). I like all kinds of music and this is about sticking in there as we all do. Get in wie the head down, you never give up.

    194. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Chiel.

      Somebody has to keep the Medical School functioning. I’ll be at George Square in May but also at the Glenrothes shindig on 7th April.

    195. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Michael.

      RE: “Mafia”.

      A wee story for you. In 1995, my wife (at the time) was chef at the Jack Daniels pub in Whitehall Crescent, Dundee.

      A couple of Dundonians, who were serving in Bosnia, had written to Cathy, the boss of Jack Daniels, bemoaning their missing Sunday nights in the pub, when Mafia were the band onstage and were wondering if any recordings were available.

      She mentioned this to my wife who said that I could probably put something together.

      Onnyhoo, I spent the last Sunday in March and the first Sunday in April in Jack Daniels recording the band, with a feed from the mixing desk. I put together a C90 of the best tracks from the two nights, did copies for each of the band and a couple for Bosnia.

      I still have my original copy, which is in my pile of cassettes for mood music whilst I’m relaxing in the bath. I’ve never got round to uploading to YouTube but will, “one of these days”. Their version of “Higher and Higher” is sublime. The brass section were so tight. In “Love Train”, Dougie even mentions Bosnia.

    196. Tinto Chiel says:

      Smallaxe: judging by my reflection in the windows at the parliament entrance, my cheekbones were still exquisite.

      Hope to see you in Glasgow, Brian. Still negotiating for Glenrothes.

      Fred: package arrived today. Recommended goods as described.

      “Aunt Julia is back from the coast.”

      “Fill my heart with a monotonous languor.”

    197. Thepnr says:


      Aye, wee sniffles there. sniff sniff.

    198. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      “The carbon is hidden in the diamond and is not to be seen.”

    199. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi peeps.

      Got BBC4 prog about cover versions on at the moment. Caused this track to pop into head. When I bought it in 1970, after hearing it on Alan Freeman’s Sunday afternoon show on Carnoustie beach, I took it home on my day off, stuck it on the Dansette with the arm up for infinite repeats, and managed an infinite number of monkeys before I had to take a break.

      A single that actually put together two covers (Captain Beefheart and The Shadows) on the same record.

    200. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thepnr @9.31: no, I don’t wear ladies’ underwear!

      “The salt is on the briar rose, / The fog is in the fir trees.”

    201. Smallaxe says:


      Weirdly, that worked, I enjoyed it, thanks. Try a bit of,
      Tony McPhee:’Write Me A Few Short Lines’;

    202. Smallaxe says:

      Tinto Chiel says:
      23 March 2018 at 9:50 pm
      “Thepnr @9.31: no, I don’t wear ladies’ underwear!”

      Liar! You wear “Hot Pants”

    203. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      Hahaha was the that the first punk record? The start gave me a headache and I liked punk 🙂

    204. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Ah T.S. Eliot, I only have one favourite poem and it caused a fall out with me and the Rev LOL. It was this by Walt Whitman.

      Oh me! Oh life! of the questions of these recurring,
      Of the endless trains of the faithless, of cities fill’d with the foolish,

      Of myself forever reproaching myself, (for who more foolish than I, and who more faithless?)

      Of eyes that vainly crave the light, of the objects mean, of the struggle ever renew’d,

      Of the poor results of all, of the plodding and sordid crowds I see around me,

      Of the empty and useless years of the rest, with the rest me intertwined,

      The question, O me! so sad, recurring—What good amid these, O me, O life.

      That you are here—that life exists and identity,
      That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.

    205. Smallaxe says:

      Punk Goes 90s;

      Falling In Reverse “Gangsta’s Paradise”

      Hows that headache, Pnr?

    206. Thepnr says:


      Give me a few minutes and I’ll let you know after I listen to your latest on the jukebox.

    207. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Thepnr: yes, I remember that night. Wish he would take such exception to the twallies who feck up the M/Ts day in, day out.

      Smallaxe: do you think crushed velvet aubergine loon pants are still me? Thought I detected some old-fashioned looks today…..

    208. Smallaxe says:

      I’ll redeem myself, Thepnr.

      Do you think Johnny Cash would Clash with a Bob Marley song?


    209. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      You didn’t tell me if you liked the poem or not LOL 🙂

      Getting near bedtime once again, this is probably the song I’ve played more often than any other on Off Topic so if you’re an old hand just skip as you’ve probably seen it,

      Still I think it’s good and I’m going to follow it up with my next most played. so be warned!

    210. Smallaxe says:

      Tinto, don’t worry,

      You’re “Just a good old fashioned Lover Boy;

      The Mute Swan screams silently. The owl has left the barn,

    211. Thepnr says:

      Probably this is my favourite song that I’ve ever played on OT. It’s by Heather Small lead singer of M People and I love it.

    212. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thepnr: the whole point of the poem you quoted was the last line, wasn’t it? That’s why it was so relevant.

      Walt was rather unorthodox, hem, hem in his social interface situations, I believe.

      Smallaxe: I taught Freddie all he knew, really.

      A song for Miss Daines. You’ve heard it before.


      A bientot!

    213. Smallaxe says:


      My late father in laws favourite song by Heather Small;

    214. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Yes the last line was the whole point and for me anyway it’s about when you yourself are feeling down at what you see going on around you and are ready to give in.

      Then pause because if you can stick in and if you can contribute a small part things can still be changed. We all have a part to play however small.

    215. Thepnr says:


      I just knew what that was before putting it on, played it many times here too. I would have liked your Father in Law I’m sure 🙂

    216. Smallaxe says:


      You would have liked him, unfortunately, he died when only 64, it feels strange for me now to be older than he was.

      Death at an Early Age;
      RIP James.

    217. Michael McCabe says:

      Hi Thepnr Sending good wishes your way. Here is a wee bit of sweetness for Everyone I have met through Wings.

    218. Thepnr says:

      Hi Michael

      Tuning in now on the background 🙂

    219. Thepnr says:

      @Michael McCabe

      Bringing a big smile to my face and Smallaxe will love it lol.

    220. Fred says:

      Enjoy the book Tinto, Holyrood seems to have been a good day oot! Always had a notion to sclim that hill.

    221. Smallaxe says:

      Nice one, Michael,

      You can’t beat some “Sweet Reggae Music”.

    222. Thepnr says:

      Smallaxe and Michael I’ve just posted this on the MT.

      Shit kicking off in Catalonia tonight after jailing of more Independence leaders.

      So I’m off to find any developments.

    223. Michael McCabe says:

      @ Thepnr & Smallaxe my pal Lynn told me to send you big hugs and to play this for you both. it is really for her so she can get up and dance. hope you enjoy. Warrior Musick- Think Twice I often wonder who the Drummer is

    224. Smallaxe says:


      Here’s a bredren of fi mi who pass away just before mi arrive inna Jamaica to meet up wid him again.
      “Love is the Answer”

      Nuff Luv, to you and Lynn, mi Bredren

    225. cearc says:


      Wow, I hadn’t heard the Edgar Broughton Band for years. Saw them play with Third Ear Band, Pink Floyd and East of Eden, sometime last century. A good night out, despite being wildly expensive at 5 bob!

    226. Thepnr says:

      A look into Boston Robots (Scottish Department) 🙂

    227. Tinto Chiel says:

      Fred: someone was sclimming the hill path behind Holyrood with a giant saltire yesterday. Looked great from doon ablaw.

      My Dear Old Dad used “sclim” quite a lot, or any Scots word, just to annoy my mother, who tried to be more genteel, eg. “That’s the baa on the sclates! / Bogheid’s a cowp!” (old home of Dumbarton FC).

      So, to summarise: no mention of HOOP demo, no mention of SNP gain in Penicuik. The thing is, this sort of thing is ultimately self-defeating because thousands of Edimbronians and tourists saw the demo yesterday and many of them will realise it was suppressed by the media. In other words, a lot of Nick Robinson moments which, once they occur, open eyes forever.

      I actually saw a Chinese journalist talking to camera while WGD was speaking and wondered if she interviewed any protesters afterwards. Unfortunately my mandarin is quite rusty 🙄 so I couldn’t engage in social intercourse.

    228. Smallaxe says:


      Anent your rusty Mandarin, try WD40.

      Imagine Dragons:”Whatever It Takes”


    229. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Smallaxe.

      Catching up from last night – Firefox threw a wobbly.

      “Write me a few short lines”. As you know, Tony McPhee was part of the John Dummer Band on their first album, “Cabal”.

      The first track on their second album “John Dummer Band” was “Few Short Lines”. You can hear it, or listen to the whole album, here:-

    230. Smallaxe says:


      Thanks for that, my friend, I’ve got the Blue album blasting out in my car, even my grandkids are getting into it.

    231. Tinto Chiel says:

      Smallaxe: sokay, switched to this:

      That WD40 slips down a treat, btw.

    232. Fred says:

      @ Tinto, Sclaff & Scluff, as in a fitba & feet!

    233. Smallaxe says:


      I knew that you’d like the WD40, now try some,

      UB40:”Red Red Wine”

    234. Tinto Chiel says:

      Smallaxe: am quaffing same responsibly and proportionately as we type (pace BDTT), mon vieux haricot.

      Fred: as a supporter of a mere diddy team, I count myself an expert in sclaffing……..

      *Wipes away a manly tear*

      Ochone, ochone.

    235. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Chiel.

      Your “Ochone, ochone” instantly reminded me of this 1min 42sec classic Scottish black and white fillum.

    236. Smallaxe says:


      Joseph O’ Mara:”Ochone When I Used To Be Young” 1901

      I got a loan of this from Fred.

    237. Tinto Chiel says:

      A great p*ss take of the original, Brian. Haven’t seen it before, so thanks.

      I liked The Maggie even more and loved the bit where the Big Shot American (Paul Douglas), who is gradually being outwitted by the puffer’s wily captain, is invited to an old Gael’s birthday party. He does make the old boy laugh, though, when he tells him his anecdote with the punch-line, “The first hundred years are the worst!”

      Don’t worry, Smallaxe, Fred has been taking a loan of me for years…

      Bofors guns on the Forth and Clyde canal boats, indeed.

      It was Piat guns, of course.

    238. Ian Brotherhood says:

      It’s good to pop in and see so many old faces!

      Anyway, not sure if we had this afore but it’s soo-perb. Stumbled across it t’other night and it hurtled me back 45 years, to primary school, watching the lassies playing at ‘ropes’. Can’t remember if the girls in my school sang this song, but they did similar and it’s very moving to hear, especially when you’re not expecting it. Lovely stuff.

      King Creosote, ‘Bluebell Cockleshell 123’

    239. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lucia Daines –

      Please excuse me being a bit ‘familiar’ here, given that we’ve barely spoken, but do you have a friend who’s having problems with The Twitter?

    240. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      I’ve noticed, also, that the lady in question seems to have gone over to suspenders…

    241. Tinto Chiel says:

      Don’t remember that particular skipping song, Ian, but the girls’ rope-songs and rubber ball routines were fascinating, weren’t they? They were a different tribe you couldn’t really understand at that age.

      Meanwhile, I remember we boys played a game of football in the big playground with a tennis ball and “jackets for goalposts”, starting at Monday morning intervals through to the one on Friday afternoon, and all lunch times in-between, and ran up daft scores like 109-97.

      For me, it was so long ago, we even had a Third Lanark supporter in our P7 class of exactly 50 (!).

    242. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC –

      You had 49 peers in primary school?


    243. Smallaxe says:

      Hi, Ian, good to see that you’re on O/T: Peotry! 😉

      I hope you’re doing okay, brother.

      This has probably been played before but it’s for a friend.

    244. Tinto Chiel says:

      Yup: it was a hard life in 1965-6. Classes were big in them days.

      I blootered a leather ball through a hut window on my second last day of primary and, instead of getting the belt from the Heedie, had to pay 7/6d for a new pane, three weeks’ pocket money.

      Made me what I am today.


    245. Smallaxe says:

      Tinto Chiel has no peers, Ian. The genteel gentleman is a one-off.

      Luckily for us.

    246. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Smallaxe –

      Hoots tae you too mister!


    247. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC –

      Any excuse to stand there, gawpin at the lassies…

      Rubber ba’s, ropes, aye.

      The one I remember being most intrigued by was something involving long lines of linked rubber bands. Some kind of jumping game, but the main thing was that the lassies holding the bands did the same action at the same time to make these mental geometric shapes. Know what ahm on about here? or did I just imagine it all?

    248. Smallaxe says:

      Tinto says:

      “I blootered a leather ball through a hut window on my second last day of primary and, instead of getting the belt from the Heedie, had to pay 7/6d for a new pane, three weeks’ pocket money.

      Made me what I am today.”

      7/6=… 3 Weeks pocket money!

      Another overpaid bad fitba’ player, that’s whit it’s made ye!

    249. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Smallaxe –

      Just watched the ‘one-off’ vid.


      Ah get it brother.

    250. Smallaxe says:


      SWMBO tells me, the game with elastic bands was called Chinese Ropes in Glasgow.

    251. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Considering the “hard life” you had to go through I’m sure you’ll appreciate this wee clip. No it’s not them 🙂

    252. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Smallaxe –

      Chinese ropes!


      Please convey thanks to yer much-better-lookin half for that one. Soo-perb.

    253. Michael McCabe says:

      Hi Everyone the best of the weekend to you all.

    254. Smallaxe says:

      Ian, Swmbo sends her love,

      Watch this man;

      Some people just amaze me and maybe, if you’re anything like me, make you feel ashamed of some of the petty worries that you thought were important.

    255. Smallaxe says:

      Hi Michael,

      Thanks for ‘chocolate dropping’ in, I’ll enjoy that later it sounded good.


    256. Tinto Chiel says:

      Ian B, Smallaxe, Thepnr: aye, pile in why don’t you on a guy who’s opened his sensitive, artistic heart to youse all? My peotic soul flinches in this cruel, uncaring world.

      So young, so cynical, the lot o’ ye, and me a survivor of the Great East Kilbride Winter of 1963, when the Rotten Calder became its own silvern bridge and the bright kingfisher perished in the frigid frosty snow (peotry). And the snow went down ma wellies and gave me rubber burns on my legs.


      Wish I could remember the husband and wife team who wrote a book analysing children’s game rhymes in the 60s (?), many of them going back a long way.

      Any intellectuals remember? Name like Ottway or summink. Or mebbe not: life is very long……

    257. cearc says:


      Opie, I think. I used to have it but don’t recall seeing it recently so maybe don’t now.

    258. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks, cearc. Thought a lady would get it. It was:

      “Children’s Games in Street And Playground” by Iona and Peter Opie.

      I can sleep now…..

    259. cearc says:

      Yep, Iona and Peter Opie. I seem to have their nursery rhyme book still but unfortunately not the street games one, which was far more interesting and that is probably why it has gone – lent or borrowed.

    260. Michael McCabe says:

      @ Tinto Chiel could it have been Iona & Peter Opie ?

    261. Tinto Chiel says:

      They’ve got some versions on A____n and Abebooks UK may have some too.

      I suspect the chain may now be broken and many rhymes are no longer transmitted as they used to be.

    262. Smallaxe says:

      Tinto, is this them?

      We’re only pulling your plonker, old chum, old pal. We don’t blame you in the slightest for being born with trappings of great wealth.” And the snow went down ma wellies and gave me rubber burns on my legs.” says you.

      I had a pair of my sisters’ old wellies and I had to get them cut off my legs when I came home, they left me with feet like a Geisha Girl for weeks afterwards and I think I’ve already disclosed that my mother fixed a hole in my black (short) trousers by putting boot polish on my arse and saying ” nobody will notice”, mind you, neither they did, it made me the man I am today.


    263. Tinto Chiel says:

      “My mother fixed a hole in my black (short) trousers by putting boot polish on my arse and saying ” nobody will notice”.

      So that’s why you’re such a cheeky boy?

      We were so poor Mummy and Daddy had to drink Valpolicella Ripasso instead of Chateau Petrus.

      I preferred Currie’s Red Kola.

      Ya bass.

    264. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks, Michael: just saw your suggestion.

      Spot on.

    265. Thepnr says:

      This is why I still come to Wings. It’s to be educated so thanks cearc and Michael, you too Tinto 🙂

    266. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Youse are all pure mental.

    267. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      I don’t think I’ve met an Wings reader that supported Independence who wasn’t “unique” in his or her own way. Including you 🙂

    268. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thepnr: your classic clip with bug-eyed Marty Feldman reminded me that he often slept in London parks before he started to earn some money writing for Round the Horne in the mid-60s.

      My favourite line of his was after the regular Round The Horne piss-take of Brief Encounter with their Fiona and Charles sketch.

      Kenneth Horne: “Ah, they knew how to make films in those days. They just didn’t bother…..”

      Bonsoir, mes braves. Taking an Opiate, hee, hee.

    269. Smallaxe says:

      Ma da used tae drink Harveys Bristol Cream!

      Alex Harvey’s; “Tommohawk Kid”

      See whit ah did ther?

    270. Smallaxe says:

      Tinto says:
      “Bonsoir, mes braves. Taking an Opiate, hee, hee.”

      Ahm oot ma skull soamur, gontae ma pit.


    271. Thepnr says:


      Four Crown was the chosen poison of my Da

    272. Smallaxe says:

      Tomahawk!^ up there please. Ta Fanks

    273. Smallaxe says:

      Any fortified wine used to make me think that I was the Hulk and could walk through walls n’ stuff. After I left school I stopped drinking it.

      “I Will Drink the Wine” Frank;

    274. Michael McCabe says:

      Smallaxe talking about drink. I Drink. Cheers

    275. Smallaxe says:


      I used to lose my memory when I got drunk, but now,

      “I’ve Got Dreams to Remember”

    276. Michael McCabe says:

      Smallaxe I too have dreams to remember.

    277. Michael McCabe says:

      I will bid you all farewell and leave you with this ladies lovely voice. Easy’s getting harder every day.

    278. Smallaxe says:

      Quiet in here, I’ll go outside and meet,

      “Big Chief Battleaxe”

      I out and staying out…

      It’s four in the morning and…never mind, goodnight nurse.

    279. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hi peeps. I missed the relevant main post, so I’ll stick these here.

      Freedom of Speech

      This entry explores the topic of free speech. It starts with a general discussion of freedom in relation to speech and then moves on to examine one of the first and best defenses of free speech, based on the harm principle. This provides a useful starting point for further digressions on the subject. The discussion moves on from the harm principle to assess the argument that speech can be limited because it causes offense rather than direct harm. I then examine arguments that suggest speech can be limited for reasons of democratic equality. I finish with an examination of paternalistic and moralistic reasons against protecting speech, and a reassessment of the harm principle….

      Feminist Theory and Freedom of Speech

      The First Amendment to the United States Constitution says, among other things, that “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech.”1 This short and apparently simple phrase has generated an astonishingly complex collection of legal doctrines and a rich tradition of constitutional theory. In this Article, I would like to offer you a feminist perspective on the theoretical landscape of freedom of speech. While there has been much feminist writing about particular free speech issues, such as pornography, there has been relatively little scholarly attention given to the implications of a feminist perspective for the fundamental issues in First Amendment theory. I believe that the feminist critique provides important insights into free speech theory and offers hope of resolving some of the more intractable problems—both theoretical and doctrinal—concerning freedom of speech.2


      First Amendment theory begins by addressing the questions: Why protect free


      Rethinking Freedom of Expression
      and Media Freedom

      Freedom of expression is an essential part of democracy, and free speech goes hand in hand with a free media. Thomas Jefferson, the principal author of the American Declaration of Independence, wrote in 1816: “Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe” (Jefferson 1816/1900). And as emphasized in the UK’s Leveson report earlier this decade, “With these rights, however, come responsibilities to the public interest: to respect the truth, to obey the law and to uphold the rights and liberties of individuals. In short, to honour the very principles proclaimed and articulated by the industry itself ” (Leveson 2012:4).

      Although the principle of free speech could be said to remain largely the same over time, the conditions for free speech and free media do not; they are certainly not the same as when Jefferson made his statement. Today the conditions are more democratic overall and the level of state censorship is lower (at least in parts of the world), concerns about state surveillance notwithstanding. However, the market pressure on media financing models and market-driven ideas that suggest the state should not ‘interfere’ in the media ecology makes journalism more vulnerable and less independent from commercial interests. It is these changing conditions of state and market that this book explores. We seek to make it at least a little more difficult to discuss free speech without addressing such contemporary conditions….

    280. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. What’s next?

      Revolting Cocks – We Shall Cleanse The World

    281. CameronB Brodie says:

      Oops, wrong link.

      Revolting Cocks – We Shall Cleanse The World

    282. Smallaxe says:

      Hi Cameron,

      Both of your links were the same, so I listened to it twice.

    283. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Cameron BB.

      Last comment before turning in – clock adjustment and a’ thah…

      Your mention of the Revolting Cocks reminded me of this track, which is on a vynil album what I still possess. The best Rod Stewart cover ever…

    284. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Cameron BB.

      It’s actually a vinyl album. I have not invented a new substance to convey music to the masses.

    285. Smallaxe says:


      Loved it!

    286. Liz Rannoch says:

      Ronnie Anderson, if you’re around, please remove my name from the Glenrothes wing-ding. Haven’t been able to stop thinking about the debacle that was me trying to introduce myself to other Wingers on Friday. Black affronted and scarlet-neckit are not good looks for a night out. Apologies to anybody I made feel uncomfortable.

    287. Smallaxe says:

      Liz Rannoch,

      Away and stop havering Liz, get yourself to that night out along with the others, embarrassed because you tried to introduce yourself to others? I and all other Wingers commend you for being in Edinburgh to represent we Wingers, who could not attend.

      Thank you, Liz. Now get your glad rags looked out for that wing-ding. I’m sure Ronnie will tell you the same thing, only he might not be as polite as me.
      Please Stay;

    288. Smallaxe says:

      Glasgow Philharmonia:”Oh What a Beautiful Morning”

    289. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hi guys. I’d been listening to a playlist, so I wasn’t sure which track the first link would play.

      I was honestly going to post that one Brian, but it lost the toss. 😉

    290. Fred says:

      “Oh what a beautiful morning indeed!”

      The “White Tornado!” was the fortified & favoured tipple of Barrowlanders in ma day!

      Anent the Opie’s, I was thinking the Buchan’s but they specialised in Soor Looks!

    291. Tinto Chiel says:

      Liz Rannoch: you’re embarrassed? Don’t think my loon pants and culottes outfit went down too well. It’s your duty to introduce yourself to Ronnie and The Krew: everyone wants to put a face to a name and have a chat. Mrs TC and I sorry to have missed you.

      “Ahm oot ma skull soamur, gontae ma pit.”

      Smallaxe, I discovered this comment after my 6-mile jog/series of bending exercises and organic bran porridge and spring water breakfast this morning.

      *In George Sanders smoothie voice* “That is an outrageous assertion, my dear sir.”

      Meanwhile, in other news, from Mrs TC’s dark mutterings at the dining room table this morning, I gather The Sunday Herald has its usual quota of SNP/Sturgeon badness.


    292. Tinto Chiel says:

      Afore I hug a yew, I’ll just leave this here. Haven’t heard it since the first time but, in my old age, I rather like it.

      As Stan Laurel (Rutherglen/Burnside’s finest) would say, “What a lot of weather we’ve been having lately.”

      Laters, haters.

    293. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. I didn’t want to post a playlist.

    294. Smallaxe says:


      White Tornado and Thunder and Lightning, have you been frequenting
      that well-known establishment ‘The Sary Hied?’

      After my usual swim across the Solway Firth and taking a stroll up Criffell, I had a breakfast of strawberry milkshake and 14 fags.
      I used to say to myself while exercising ‘Think fit, I’m going to get fit’ over and over again until I woke up in the hospital one day and asked “what happened?” they said “you took a fit”

    295. Smallaxe says:

      Hi Cameron,

      Play whatever you like, my friend, it’s off-topic where all us loonies come out to play.

      Good to see you posting again.

    296. CameronB Brodie says:

      Cheers mate, I’ve been busy.

    297. Tinto Chiel says:

      “You took a fit.”

      Give you an inch, you’ll take a mile. I’m doon the bosky braes on

      I hear the plangent song of the mavis and the robin’s frail flutings.

      A slim volume of my crystalline poems will be available shortly.

      Oh, look: a Buckfast bottle!

    298. Smallaxe says:

      Tinto says,
      “I hear the plangent song of the mavis and the robin’s frail flutings.”

      You’re lucky, I Hear Voices;

      Hear them?

    299. Smallaxe says:

      John Prine:”Some Humans Ain’t Human”

      Recognise anybody?

    300. Fred says:

      @ Smallaxe, the Sarry Heid indeed my auld Manky Mate, the story is that it was made up in the back-shop from buckets of jelly?

      John Prine excellent, saw him in the Concert Hall, he was very late for some reason & a guy in the balcony died waiting sadly!

    301. Smallaxe says:


      A pint of Thunder and Lightning used to cost £5 back in the day, then they phoned for an ambulance. Loved the place.

      John Prine:”It’s a Big Old Goofy World”

    302. Cactus says:

      Evening ot, gotta few days worth of Wings to catch up on 🙂

      “An independent Scotland… powered by Wings.”

      Baknabit (or spontaneously forthwith).

      The worth of Wings.

      Powerful toon too.

    303. Tinto Chiel says:

      Hi, Cactus: good to see you here again. Don’t read Craig Murray or kinters in your catch-up, or you’ll get depressed.

      Fancy some German techno?

      It’s a song about my cheekbones, or so they say……

    304. Tinto Chiel says:

      Dig the beats, Poindexters:

    305. Tinto Chiel says:

      Hey, oldsters: remember this?

    306. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      I remember it well, was one of my favourite programs as a wee boy. I wanted to be the ghost, that sounded like a great opportunity for mischief making 🙂

    307. Chick McGregor says:

      “Hey, oldsters: remember this?”

      I’m there bud. It was like an early Ant and Dec except one of them disappeared errr wait…

      Another from the same era (error?)

    308. Tinto Chiel says:

      Esteemed gents, Thepnr and Chick: yes, and I still like watching them for the chanky sets and seeing “actors who became famous” in their early days.

      As I’ve said before, The Baron had some great title music and a Jensen CV8, the first car I’d ever seen with angled twin headlights. Lots of episodes are available on YouTube, though strangely, the original RAHD ones are hard to find.

      Word on the street is that the lovely Alexandra Bastedo was a bit of inspired miscasting: they were looking for a Glasgow hard-man of Italian extraction called Wee Alex Bastardo.

      I’ll get my straitjacket…..

    309. Tinto Chiel says:

      Theme music about 2 mins in for you sophisticates, interesting for stock shots of 60s UK (no double yellow lines, etc):

      Addiction may result…….

    310. pete the camera says:

      For the attention of The pnr and Tonto chief the Randall and Hopkirk series is being shown on Freeview channel 61 True Entertainment at 8pm well worth watching just to see all the old cars

    311. Tinto Chiel says:

      PTC: hope you are feeling better.

      Yes, the cars are a great attraction. Unfortunately I’m a No Licence, No Watchee guy now so I’ll have to see it at my daughter’s.

      “Tonto Chief”: love it. And getting Tontoer by the day in the twilight of this mad, mental Toryboy UK *fingers crossed*.

      Meanwhile, in other news: my Minolta Dynax 4 finally stopped winding on, so now I have had finally to go over to the Digital Dark Side.

      Feelin’ kinda dirty now……

    312. Tinto Chiel says:

      Going out for my organic porridge but will leave this here as part of our Darby and Joan Fest. BDTT or some such sage may have played this before. Since I was a speccy wee dweeb at primary, I gained this nickname:

      Scarred for life, soaniwas.

    313. Chick McGregor says:

      Alexandra Bastedo sounds like it could have been aboot the Salmond v Darling debate. 🙂

      BTW, when he was at the Gleneagles G8, I heard that one of Dubya’s escort helicopters, acting on misinformation, nearly fired a rocket at ‘Alky Ada’s’ hoose.

      Torture or fun, its thruppence a pun.

    314. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Torture or fun, its thruppence a pun.”

      What have I started?


      Like your new avatar, mon vieux. I changed mine to a police arrest photo of B. Traven once but the intellectuals on the M/T outed me in about three nanoseconds.

      Laters, haters.

    315. Tinto Chiel says:

      I see kinters/indy2 has a new M/T nom de plume: Yalta.

      77 Brigade are working overtime just now.

      They must be very worried.


    316. Fred says:

      Tried sending you guys the Indian hit “Dum Maaro Dum!” but it didnae work! Namaste’

    317. Thepnr says:

      Evening all! This tune is nooo tooo bad.

    318. Thepnr says:

      @pete the camera

      Just saw your post, great to hear from you on Off Topic.

      I hope your doing OK buddy will check out the channel though I’m not allowed to watch live telly so keep it between you and me 🙂

      Hope to catch up with you in the coming weeks and months. Will you and Brian make it Glenrothes?

    319. Thepnr says:


      Whit that was hot! Still think your 25? Aye you wish 🙂

    320. Thepnr says:


      Yes will see you soon, mind get me a couple of Tennents 🙂

    321. Thepnr says:


      Hahaha I did that in a manner of speaking, working in London and getting home only every weekend when I had two children under five.

      Eventually got sick of it I used to hate Sunday nights when “Londons Burning” started on the TV as that was time to go to catch the sleeper train and back to Euston again.

      I didn’t spit the dummy out completely and walk away though I got a transfer back to a job and worked in Methil with the same company and I could travel there everyday.I kept my sanity.

    322. Smallaxe says:


      Sorry for not seeing your 12:33 am post;

      “Last Night”

    323. Smallaxe says:

      Steeleye Span:”Rogues in a nation”

      We have new rogues now, let’s kick them out. Hard!

    324. Fred says:

      Brilliant Smallaxe, fair pits ye in the mood fur a Lamb Saag!!!!

      Are ye sure U were never the DJ at the Palais kid?

    325. Smallaxe says:

      Naw Fred,

      Ah hid nae time fir DJing, I wis too busy in the winchin room.

      The Palais Glide;

    326. Smallaxe says:

      For Clara Ponsatí & Catalonia;

      “This is our battle cry
      Oh hear our drum
      We can not be silenced
      We stand as one”

    327. Thepnr says:


      I see the crowdfund for Cara Ponsati is now just shy of £150K after a few hours. They keep moving the stretch target goalposts though first £100K then £150K and now £200K.

      I’m sure though all the money raised will be put to good use as there are more needing help than just Clara Ponsati.

      I’m thinking really of the families of the two ordinary guys who were not politicians that have been in jail since October.

      I would hope once bills are paid that some of the funds raised can find a way to them.

    328. Smallaxe says:


      As long as this keeps going on;

      “None Of Us Are Free” Solomon Burke;


    329. Thepnr says:


      Just watching Independence Live outside Edinburgh Sherriff Court waiting to see what happens with Calra Ponsati.

      Ronnie Andersons voice is very prominent LOL. He gets everywhere.

    330. Thepnr says:


      Just watching Independence Live outside Edinburgh Sherriff Court waiting to see what happens with Calra Ponsati.

      Ronnie Andersons voice is very prominent LOL. He gets everywhere.

    331. Smallaxe says:


      Thanks for the link, I don’t often swear online but this situation is getting fucking intolerable.

      First, they came for;

      We must all stand up now before…

    332. Thepnr says:


      Intolerable barely begins to describe it, just reading something right now while waiting on the announcement from Edinburgh that makes my eyes pop out my head.

      Will send you it later.

    333. Tinto Chiel says:

      I started watching this quite innocently and then took a look at the btl comments.

      You can see why there was a leave vote when you read the depressingly racist “good old days” paradise lost stuff on display.

      It’s like turning over a big stone in the garden and getting a bit of a shock at the nasty, writhing things underneath.

    334. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Funningly enough the stuff I’m reading right now is about the leave vote and it stinks regarding the dark money spent in that campaign.

    335. Smallaxe says:


      Looking forward to hearing from you.

      I see what you mean, disgusting, I have two visitors arriving from London tomorrow, one of them is Romanian. Shock horror: They are very welcome in my home as is any decent person.

      Bine ai venit prietene.

    336. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Fred.

      I was DJ in The Palais in Dundee from October 1972 to April 1974, before Wichita went on stage, then during their break.

    337. Tinto Chiel says:

      Look at these dangerous young tearaways singing their vile sep songs and NOT IN ENGLISH.

      Why can’t these workshy scroungers stop stealing our jobs?

      Oh, wait…

    338. Smallaxe says:


      Very appropriate, my Romanian friend employs 17 people and would you believe some of them are English!

      Don’t Care Where You From: 47SOUL

    339. Tinto Chiel says:

      Great stuff, Smallaxe.

      More vile songs from extremists:

      Lock ’em up and throw away the key is wot I say.

    340. Smallaxe says:

      Beautiful, Tinto,

      Try this;
      How Plants Can Sing: “Emerald Voices – Music of the Trees”

      Cannabis Sativa sounds like Reggae.True!
      Cannabis Indica sounds like Bollywood. Also True.

    341. Fred says:

      @ Brian, the Dennistoun Palais DJs had to have DJ initials so were called Drew Jason or some such bollox!

      @ Tinto, stane-lifting’s the word, they forget that this London was paid for by brown faces sweating in fields all over the Empire for buttons!

    342. Tinto Chiel says:

      Smallaxe: the natural world is amazingly complex and who knows what plants can sense of their surroundings, and how they respond. No wonder I hug an oak. They’ve all been around a lot longer than us.

      “Paid for by brown faces sweating in fields all over the Empire for buttons!”

      Exactly, Fred, but these utter planks just don’t understand it.

      Time for us to end this accursed Union, and pronto.

    343. chasanderson200 says:

      Otters Head, Woodside, Glenrothes
      (Junction of Happer Cres and Bighty Ave- further details on the web)

      APRIL 7th (Weekend of Declaration of Arbroath)

      A wee reminder -Original post on 5th February above.

      A Wingdingaling night out for a wee(?) social gathering of Wingers (posters, lurkers, and friends) has been organised for April 7th in the Otters Head where we will have the refurbished bar area all to ourselves!!!!!

      Food – Sandwiches and sausage rolls are being provided and a few wingers have expressed an interest in bringing along buffet food to supplement this. (for those who are, note that plates cutlery napkins will be provided.)

      Drink – As well as the traditional range of beers, ciders, whiskies etc the pub also carries a range of exotic gins and vodkas for the trendies and sophisticates among you.

      Entertainment – Landlord has no objection to Guitars, Moothies, Boxes and other musical noise creation devices being brought in. In addition a wee Scottish Quiz has been prepared for which a grand unique prize is offered. (if anyone wants a raffle this can be accommodated).

      Cars – Ample car parking is available close by.

      Buses – In addition to local town services the pub is approx. 200 yards from a stop serving express services covering,
      Dundee Edinburgh…X54
      Dundee Kirkcaldy…X53
      St.Andrews Glasgow…X24
      Leven Glasgow…X26
      St Andrews Edinburgh…X59

      Train – The east coast main line runs through Markinch Station
      (approx 5 Minutes by Taxi) and the Fife Circle line which runs through Thornton Station (also 5 minutes by taxi).

      Overnight Stays
      Close by, easily accessible and affordable are the following,
      Holiday Inn Express, Premier Inn, Golden Acorn, Drummonds Hotel, Gilvenbank Hotel. All are approx 5 to 10 minutes away by taxi.

      Also looking for a big local turnout as well, so if you stay in the area but have never been to one of these bashes then come along and enjoy the Craic.

      Fingertips now bleeding so I’ll leave there pro tem. Feel free to contact me through the site if you need any more info.

      Regular reminders to follow but keep this info for reference.

      Hope to see lots of you there,

    344. Thepnr says:


      Good timing I’ve been waiting on the update 🙂 See you again soon.

    345. Tinto Chiel says:

      Plants, is it? Have at you, sirrah!

      This song’s rather brutal, actually.

      I’m going outside now to listen to the music of the spheres. I may be some time…..

    346. chasanderson200 says:

      Been distracted by granpappy duties the last few weeks and am only catching up now. See you on the 7th.

    347. Smallaxe says:


      Why go outside?
      Mike Oldfield:”Music of the Spheres – Aurora”

      You’ll think it’s outside you’re in.

    348. Michael McCabe says:

      Sometimes it feels like

    349. Thepnr says:

      Nice tune M Mc never heard before. Just had it playing in the background while I sorted out somewhere to stay in Glenrothes next weekend 🙂

    350. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      All this type about Robert Planet (he never laid a hand on me) reminded me of this classic. It leads up to the big “hit single” (with a bullet).

      Unfortunately, it’s on YouTube as two separate uploads.

      This is the first:-

      and on vinyl, it leads straight into this:-

    351. Michael McCabe says:

      Good Morning Smallaxe BDTT & Thepnr this is my second favourite John Prine song.

    352. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning, Michael and Brian DTT, Michael, you just beat me to it.
      Great minds think alike/Fools seldom differ.

    353. cearc says:


      ‘It’s like turning over a big stone in the garden and getting a bit of a shock at the nasty, writhing things underneath.’

      I never see them, just a flurry of hens. I recommend gardening with chickens,they eat them all faster than the eye can see.

    354. Michael McCabe says:

      Yes Smallaxe great minds and all that Jazz. This is my favourite John Prine Song

    355. Tinto Chiel says:

      @cearc: will hens eat slaters (wood lice) horny gollachs and centipedes?

      Great front picture on The National of a smiling Clara Ponsati and sharp-suited Aamer Anwar after she was bailed. Also notable for a great shot of Wings’ own ruggedly handsome Ronnie Anderson and his Catalan flag.

      That man gets everywhere.

    356. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Aye I did see that picture LOL. Ronnie is so close he looks like her minder 🙂 🙂

    357. Tinto Chiel says:

      Clara could do a lot worse 😀


      I’m more of an Arthur Daley type myself in the sheepskin department.

    358. Tinto Chiel says:

      Btw, cearc: were you being serious about water dropwort on the M/T as a potential poisoner of the Skripals?

      It’s certainly mega-poisonous, is common, and easily confused with other plants like carrot and angelica.

      I know a few places where it grows quite freely in summer: very dangerous stuff. I wonder how many deaths are recorded in a year?

    359. cearc says:


      Yes and Yes.

      Chickens eat everything they can catch or that has conveniently died. Hours of fun can be had watching them with a dead mouse. One grabs it and runs off, others pursue. In order to actually eat they have to put it down and peck at it, whereupon another grabs it and all is repeated until it starts to fall apart or a muscovy duck comes by and swallows it whole.

      Poisonous plants? Yep, I think it is extremely likely (more likely than Putin). All the seemingly disparate bits of info, timescale etc. fit a low level contact. There is of course a stereo type of russians always picking stuff to eat when walking.

      Numbers are not very well known. People who eat any quantity (like a mouthful)of either group generally die before seeking treatment, those who just taste or eat some cooked may or may not be diagnosed depending on what info is given. None of them are rare plants.

    360. Tinto Chiel says:

      cearc: thanks for all that.

      Muscovy ducks eating carrion? Amazing! The lady in the Skye croft I used to visit had quite a few of them wandering around her big garden (ducks, that is).

      Water dropwort seems the Destroying Angel of the plant world and perfect for a Poirot-style murder, surely.

      “But my mother-in-law loved coriander!”

    361. Thepnr says:



      Right I made a bootable USB with Peppermint on it and tried it then installed it from there. All seemed to go OK but when I boot the computer with the USB uninstalled I don’t have an option to boot directly from Linux.

      It goes straight to Windows. Any help appreciated.

    362. cearc says:


      When you switch on press F12 that will take you to the boot menu where you can choose.

      It is worth changing the boot order. It will show boot from C/ or windows first, move that to below your device, so then it will look for removable devices before loading windows. Then it will automatically boot from the USB if it is attached, if not it will boot from windows, just adding a few milleseconds to the boot time.

    363. cearc says:


      Yep, they definitely eat meat but not much good at catching it alive. Although I once watched a duckling (just getting first feathers size) grab one as it poked out of the ground right in front of it. Rather too large a beak full but whilst doting mum and envious siblings looked on he slowly managed to crush it and eventuallly swallow it. Rather like watching a snake eat!

      I had an adult male that actually decided that newly hatched ducklings were a tasty treat. A couple went missing one day and then I saw him actually grab one. With judicious wielding of my walking stick I persuaded him to drop it and that night he made his journey to the great freezer in the garge.

      I think there are three plants in the water dropwort family and four in the water hemlock family (and hemlock itself of course) that have significant amounts of severe neurotoxin. Never really understand why don’t feature much in poisoning stories. Far easier to come by than arsenic. Possibly because people don’t seem to know about them.

      Their was a grower of coriander leaves in Cumbria, I think, some years back who found lots of the dropworts around the margins of his field. None of the pickers had been aware of what they were and so he immediately recalled all the stuff he had shipped since starting on that field.

      Anyways, lots of water meadows around Salisbury.

    364. Thepnr says:


      Yes I got it to boot from the USB before installing it, after it has been installed do I still have to boot from the USB?

      I thought it would have given me a choice of which OS to use on boot up from the hard drive without the USB plugged in?

    365. Thepnr says:


      All working now.

    366. Tinto Chiel says:

      “With judicious wielding of my walking stick I persuaded him to drop it and that night he made his journey to the great freezer in the garage.”

      @cearc: remind me not to fall out with you at a Wings social.

      Yep, these easily-available, deadly-poisonous native plants are the cat’s PJs.

      Although the simplest method imho is still to go a hill-walk with your annoyance: two go up, one comes down. No mess, no fuss.

      On reflection, I may have said too much…..

    367. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr et abody else –

      All the techy talk over on the last MT coincided with Word on my laptop expiring, and it wants me to cough up for renewal. Thing is, I needed all the wee tools like referencing/footnoting etc for uni, but now I just need something that can handle simple straightforward text, no graphics, no colour, nothing else.

      Any suggestions?

    368. Fred says:

      @ Tinto, I got four Muscovies on the Black Isle for a pal, very strange burds they spent a lot of time on the roof apparently then flew back to Muscovy! aka South America. @ cearc, what do they taste like?

      Water Dropwort grows in Glesga, looks a bit like celery & poisons coos so no prob’s here! Leaves the poisoned victim with a sardonic grin but not oot yet so?

    369. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Funny you should ask that because I’m looking for the same myself that will work with Linux rather than Windows since I wanting to try it out.

      LibreOffice it seems does both, totally free and will always be free and looks to be fully compatible with Office. For what you need it for I’m sure it will work just as well as Microsoft.

      Here’s a link to a review and also to the download.

    370. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Leaves the poisoned victim with a sardonic grin but not oot yet so?”

      Patience, Fred. It grows quite well in wet ditches along the old farm roads of EK parish. According to Lee’s “The Flora of The Clyde Area”, it flowers June to July.

      Roots particularly deadly, I believe.

    371. Fred says:

      All will be revealed in time Tinto but a British agent finished off Rasputin who wanted an end to the war! What goes round!

      Off to Ben Oovi in the morning, watch the shop kid!

    372. cearc says:


      It’s OK, I never bring my freezers to Wing’s does.

      Ruthless business this eating stuff, humble potatoes ripped from the soil, harmless lettuce getting their leaves ripped off…


      Does Peppermint not install Libre with the bundle? It does all the same stuff as Office. I use Linux Mint and it installs with Libre, Thunderbird (email), video player, music player etc.


      Muscovies are quite a dark meat, not gamey though and not fatty like other ducks. I use them a lot for mince, burgers and stuff rather than roasting (plenty of chickens and the odd guinea fowl for that. Yep, they like sitting on roofs.

    373. Thepnr says:


      No it doesn’t install Libre though I have now, it’s like a minimum installation and they leave it up to you what software you might want to choose to add. I like that concept.

    374. cearc says:


      So does it not have Wine? You need that if you want to install programs written for windows.

    375. Thepnr says:


      Don’t know haven’t tried yet. It probably does LOL.

    376. William Wallace says:

      Open Office?

    377. Tinto Chiel says:

      Fred: I’ll mind the shop, you mind the each-uisge in Lochan Oovi. I hear they’re particularly mischievous in the Spring. And take the old thermals. Think it’s going to be cold this weekend.

      Those Muscovies sound very tasty, cearc. I’d like to raise them myself but will need to get a “little place in the country” first. Think my peripatetic badger and fox would probs find them tasty too.

    378. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Thanks all for suggestions. Will investigate.


    379. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      This marvelous composition by Phil Cunningham (The Pearl) surely deserves an appropriate lyric

    380. Thepnr says:

      I’m so fed up right now that I’m reduced to watching the whole first series of Star Trek.

      Now on Season 2 Episode 15 and still haven’t cracked a smile 🙂

    381. Thepnr says:

      @Michael McCabe

      Cheers for that, it did bring a smile to my face. A classic hahaha

    382. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Thepnr.

      My boss was feeling a tad down two or three days ago, so I sent him this link.

      The ßügg€r was that he was laughing so loudly that the rest of the team couldn’t chillax for our lunchtime snooze.“Ronald+Villiers”

    383. cearc says:


      Have you grown big pointy ears yet?

    384. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      Your link is not working so stuck the whole thing in google and choose the shortest one to watch. Stoll braw though 🙂


      You;ll have to wait until the next time you see me to find out 🙂

    385. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      This is the Ronald Villiers clip I watched it’s great LOL.

    386. Lollysmum says:

      Just checking in to get info for the Glenrothes night. Hope to see everyone (aka the usual suspects) at the Otters Head on the 7th.

    387. Thepnr says:


      Glenrothes is the place to be on 7th April. Glad you can make it 🙂

    388. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah well another three for normal (non-Rock) people. Throwing in a couple of slow ones first and after is optional.

    389. K1 says:

      M/T’s becoming increasingly toxic of late…some real zoomering tripe from usual suspects and some ‘new’ posters. The personal insults toward Robert Peffers in particular are becoming more frequent…he’s one of our best contributors and for good reason too. So not surprised at the constant attempts to undermine/insult him as a means of deflecting from what he’s imparting on this forum. It’s ‘too’ obvious for this not to be the motive for these increasingly nasty jibes

    390. K1 says:

      It ‘is’ offputing Stu. Nothing to do with unity…some pf these comments are genuinely unprovoked and uncalled for. Especially Rock’s obsession with Mr Peffers. Even you must see that that has nothing to do with debating. It’s full on personal attacks on his character. Why do you allow this kind of interplay on Wings? It’s copy and pasting old comments for the sole purpose of denigrating him? How is that helpful to our cause? End.

    391. Tinto Chiel says:

      K1: quite agree. It’s why I’ve ended up on here instead keeping the camp fire going.

    392. Tinto Chiel says:

      Going to sit on the Lyon Street steps and smoke a stoagie now.

    393. Liz g says:

      Cameron B Brodie
      So sorry to read of your Father’s passing Cameron…
      My thoughts are with you and yours.
      Take care of yourself, and I hope you can make it to the night out,it will probably help to be amongst friends for a few hour’s… X

    394. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liz g
      Thanks Liz. We had a long time to prepare for his passing but it still came as a bit of a shock. The family is coping and I’ll do my best to make it along.

    395. K1 says:

      I echo Liz’s condolences Cameron, it’s always a difficult time to navigate when we lose our loved ones. x

    396. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks K1.

    397. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @K1 –


      For anyone to suggest that a fellow Winger (or anyone else for that matter) is not genuinely grieving the loss of a child? It’s so out of order I can’t think of anything similar, not btl at WOS anyway. Exceptionally nasty stuff.

    398. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Powerful stuff here, recommended by my son.

      Joyner Lucas, ‘I’m Not Racist’ –

      NB – both of the characters in this video are lip-synching. Lucas doesn’t appear in it.

    399. K1 says:

      Aye Ian, funnily enough flashed on that earlier when I was thinking about the crap on M/T, how many times has he brought it up now since R’s son’s death? Aye utterly below the belt.

    400. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. the comparison between Rosa Parks and Clara Ponsati, self-identification and stuff.

      Culture, Prejudice, Racism, and Discrimination

      Summary and Keywords

      Prejudice is a broad social phenomenon and area of research, complicated by the fact that intolerance exists in internal cognitions but is manifest in symbol usage (verbal, nonverbal, mediated), law and policy, and social and organizational practice. It is based on group identification (i.e., perceiving and treating a person or people in terms of outgroup membership); but that outgroup can range from the more commonly known outgroups based on race, sex/gender, nationality, or sexual orientation to more specific intolerances of others based on political party, fan status, or membership in some perceived group such as “blonde” or “athlete.” This article begins with the link of culture to prejudice, noting specific culture-based prejudices of ethnocentrism and xenophobia. It then explores the levels at which prejudice might be manifest, finally arriving at a specific focus of prejudice—racism; however, what applies to racism may also apply to other intolerances such as sexism, heterosexism, classism, or ageism.

      The discussion and analysis of prejudice becomes complicated when we approach a specific topic like racism, though the tensions surrounding this phenomenon extend to other intolerances such as sexism or heterosexism. Complications include determining the influences that might lead to individual racism or an atmosphere of racism, but also include the very definition of what racism is: Is it an individual phenomenon, or does it refer to an intolerance that is supported by a dominant social structure? Because overt intolerance has become unpopular in many societies, researchers have explored how racism and sexism might be expressed in subtle terms; others investigate how racism intersects with other forms of oppression, including those based on sex/gender, sexual orientation, or colonialism; and still others consider how one might express intolerance “benevolently,” with good intentions though still based on problematic racist or sexist ideologies.

      Chapter Summary for Chapter 16 Race, Ethnicity and Migration

      Ethnicity refers to the cultural practices and outlooks of a community, which identifies them as a distinctive social group. Ethnicity is a social phenomenon, which has no basis in human biology. However, ‘ethnicity’ can also be problematic if it implies a contrast with some ‘non-ethnic’ norm, or if ethnic groups are taken to be fixed and predetermined.

      ‘Minority group’ refers to more than a numerical minority in a population. ‘Minorities’ are disadvantaged groups with some shared sense of identity. Prejudice is holding beliefs which prejudge all members of a social group, typically based on limited information and stereotypes, often linked to scapegoating of those groups for social problems. Discrimination refers to actual behaviour towards a social group which disadvantages that group. Racism is prejudice based on racialized differences.

      Racism is prejudice based on socially significant physical distinctions. Institutional racism is prejudice that pervades society’s structures in a systematic way. The Macpherson Report described institutional racism as ‘the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin’. The concept of a ‘new racism’ – sometimes called cultural racism – is used to describe recent racism based on the identification of cultural differences as justification for the exclusion of certain social groups.

      Ethnocentrism is a suspicion of outsiders, combined with a tendency to evaluate other cultures negatively in terms of one’s own culture. Group closure describes the ways in which social groups maintain boundaries separating them from others. It is often linked to attempts at securing a favourable allocation of resources to a specific group….


      I begin by suggesting that projective identification is the most fruitful psychoanalytic concept since the discovery of the unconscious. Of course, as soon as something like that is said, competing claims rush forward to be recognised, for example, the significance of the Oedipus complex. Indeed, Donald Winnicott was kind enough to say of Melanie Klein – even though they had fallen out – that her concept of reparation in the depressive position was as important to psychoanalysis as the Oedipus complex. Although Winnicott’s rejection of the death instinct led him to underplay this, the depressive position is in perpetual dynamic interplay with the paranoid-schizoid position, which comes first developmentally, and projective identification, along with splitting, is the central unconscious mental process involved. The concept he was honouring was, for her, part of a dynamically interrelated set of ideas in which projective identification was crucial.

      Suffice it to say, then, that it is very important. Elizabeth Spillius describes it more modestly as Klein’s most popular concept (Spillius, 1988, vol. 1, p. 81), and Donald Meltzer calls it the most fruitful Kleinian concept over the past thirty to forty years (Meltzer, 1991). Hinshelwood suggests that as well as being a, if not the, most fruitful Kleinian concept, it is also the most confused and confusing one. However, that does not make it mistaken or useless. That’s how important ideas develop – by being fruitfully and metaphorically open to different specifications (see Rorty, 1989, Part I). Similar things can be said about the history of the most fundamental concepts in natural science ‘Gravity’, ‘affinity’ and ‘natural selection’ were, respectively, the most basic ideas in the development of modern physics, chemistry and biology, and the working out of the ambiguities and contradictory claims made on behalf of those essentially metaphorical concepts formed the subject matter of the formative periods in the natural sciences. I have made a special study of the origins and vicissitudes of Darwin’s concept of natural selection – which I’ve called ‘Darwin’s metaphor’ – and the parallels are very interesting and reassuring for the prospects of the concept of projective identification (Young, 1985, Ch.. 4). Important new ideas are rich in resonances; when they cease to be so, they become literal and mundane, and their fecundity is exhausted (Rorty, 1989, p. 16).

      Before plunging into the complexities of projective identification, I want to pause a moment longer at the level of the history of ideas and say that projective identification can be seen as part of a wide network of fundamental developments in the history, philosophy and social studies of science and related subjects. Positivist and empiricist epistemology is in full retreat. In its place is developing a way of thinking about what we know which is not based on the empiricist sequence, whereby we suffer sensations which lead to perceptions and then to ideas. Rather, experience is coming to be seen as constructed from the consequences of what we put forth into the world – what we project (Haraway, 1989, 1991; Young, 1992, 1992b. There are related debates in the epistemology of psychoanalysis, centring on the work of Lacan and Laplanche, which I do not feel competent to discuss.). As the post-modernist philosopher, Richard Rorty, puts it, ‘Truth is made, not found’. Nature is not a given; it is a social construct. Similarly, human relations are the consequences of how we act toward others and what comes back….

    401. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, “race” is an old-fashioned concept, which is itself an instrument of colonialism and human subjugation.

      Race in the Ontology of International Order


      The current world order is characterised by profound global inequality, depicted through reference to the developed and developing world. The racialised character of global inequalities in power is rarely acknowledged, however. Explicit racial discourse has been removed from the institutional form of the modern world order, and this apparent transcendence of race is mirrored in the lack of attention to race within mainstream scholarship in International Relations (IR). This is in part because of the empiricist assumptions underlying much IR scholarship, which reflect the non-racialised appearance of the modern world order. While the question of race has been exposed by critical strands of IR scholarship, such critiques have focused largely on discursive dimensions of race. This article argues that critical analysis of global racism and racial oppression must go beyond the limits of discursive critique. It is necessary to grasp the non-discursive dimensions of racial power, in order to explain the reproduction of racial inequality by an international order formally committed to racial equality. This, in turn, requires an expanded theory of social ontology. Critical realism develops a theory of social ontology which provides a basis for differentiating between various dimensions of racial oppression.

      The critical realist theory of social ontology highlights the significance of the relations structuring societal interaction with nature, which are fundamental in determining distributions of social power within society. A survey of the long global history of colonialism reveals that the relations structuring societal interaction with nature on a global scale have been built upon a basis of racialised dispossession. The article argues that the racialised structures of social power produced through centuries of colonial dispossession remain entrenched, despite the formal transcendence of racism in modern institutions of international order. Thus a realist ontology provides the basis for revealing the endurance of race in the structures of international order.

      Institutional Racism Instructional

      Culture and Racism

      A culture is thriving if it keeps providing ways of communicating and understanding that are relevant to the group and its situation. A group with such a culture is very difficult to suppress: it is innovative, easy to organize, confident, difficult to lie to. In order to suppress a group, it is crucial to suppress its culture. This is part of the tension of racism: on the one hand it splits people into groups and maintains their separation. On the other, it must continually interfere in the lives of the members of oppressed races to disrupt their cultures and prevent their development. This is done in two ways. First, by the denying cultural resources needed for an autonomous cultural life to people of colour, and second, by using the relative monopoly over cultural resources to spread myths about whites and people of colour, their abilities, their relationships, and their roles. These myths reinforce the racist beliefs that underpin the social system….

      Realism and Racism: Concepts of Race in Sociological Research

      There are continuing difficulties within social science surrounding concepts of race. This book suggests that these difficulties stem from the uncertain ontological and epistemological status of ideas about race, itself a consequence of the recognition that concepts of race have all but lost their relevance as sociologically significant descriptions. This book surveys ways in which social scientists have attempted to come to terms with this situation, before developing an alternative approach based on recent work by realist authors. This approach offers a radical revision of orthodox debates about race concepts, about the possibility of a social science and about the nature of empirical research. This illustrated through two policy examples: an account of post war migration to the UK, and debates about trans-racial adoption in the UK and the USA.

      Ian Brotherhood
      Re. your son’s musical selection. Astonishing, frankly. 😉

    402. David says:

      Haven’t seen it mentioned here yet, so well done to Dave McEwan Hill for an excellent article in the National last week.

    403. CameronB Brodie says:

      What are the consequences of Scotland not being independent? Principally, Scots lack effective political agency (see Brexit, for example) and so are unable to fully develop Scotland’s economic and cultural potential. This will not be improved if Scots allows the toxic mix of right-wing populism and English cultural nationalism to determine our future (see Brexit).

      Thoughts on the sociology of Brexit

      The geography reflects the economic crisis of the 1970s, not the 2010s

      It became clear early on in the night that Leave had extraordinary levels of support in the North East, taking 70% of the votes in Hartlepool and 61% in Sunderland. It subsequently emerged that Wales had voted for Leave overall, especially strongly in the South around areas such as Newport. It is easy to focus on the recent history of Tory-led austerity when analysing this, as if anger towards elites and immigrants was simply an effect of public spending cuts of the past 6 years or (more structurally) the collapse of Britain’s pre-2007 debt-driven model of growth.

      But consider the longer history of these regions as well. They are well-recognised as Labour’s historic heartlands, sitting on coalfields and/or around ship-building cities. Indeed, outside of London and Scotland, they were amongst the only blobs of Labour red on the 2015 electoral map. There is no reason to think that they would not stay red if an election were held in the autumn. But in the language of Marxist geographers, they have had no successful ‘spatial fix’ since the stagflation crisis of the 1970s. Thatcherism gutted them with pit-closures and monetarism, but generated no private sector jobs to fill the space. The entrepreneurial investment that neoliberals always believe is just around the corner never materialised.

      Labour’s solution was to spread wealth in their direction using fiscal policy: public sector back-office jobs were strategically relocated to South Wales and the North East to alleviate deindustrialisation, while tax credits made low productivity service work more socially viable. This effectively created a shadow welfare state that was never publicly spoken of, and co-existed with a political culture which heaped scorn on dependency. Peter Mandelson’s infamous comment, that the Labour heartlands could be depended on to vote Labour no matter what, “because they’ve got nowhere else to go” spoke of a dominant attitude. In Nancy Fraser’s terms, New Labour offered ‘redistribution’ but no ‘recognition’.

      This cultural contradiction wasn’t sustainable and nor was the geographic one. Not only was the ‘spatial fix’ a relatively short-term one, seeing as it depended on rising tax receipts from the South East and a centre left government willing to spread money quite lavishly (albeit, discreetly), it also failed to deliver what many Brexit-voters perhaps crave the most: the dignity of being self-sufficient, not necessarily in a neoliberal sense, but certainly in a communal, familial and fraternal sense….

    404. chasanderson200 says:



      Otters Head, Woodside, Glenrothes
      (Junction of Happer Cres and Bighty Ave- further details on the web
      APRIL 7th (Weekend of Declaration of Arbroath)


      A Wingdingaling night out for a wee(?) social gathering of Wingers (posters, lurkers, and friends) has been organised for April 7th in the Otters Head where we will have the refurbished bar area all to ourselves!!!!!

      Food – Sandwiches and sausage rolls are being provided and a few wingers have expressed an interest in bringing along buffet food to supplement this. (for those who are, note that plates cutlery napkins will be provided.)

      Drink – As well as the traditional range of beers, ciders, whiskies etc the pub also carries a range of exotic gins and vodkas for the trendies and sophisticates among you.

      Entertainment – Landlord has no objection to Guitars, Moothies, Boxes and other musical noise creation devices being brought in. In addition a wee Scottish Quiz has been prepared for which a grand unique prize is offered. (If anyone wants a raffle this can be accommodated IF YOU BRING ALONG ANY UNWANTED XMAS GIFTS OR SUCH OTHER GOODIES AS YOU DEEM SUITABLE. I SHALL PROVIDE A SUITABLE BOTTLE FOR THE TOP PRIZE. PROCEEDS TO WINGS or THE LOCAL FOODBANK – DECIDE ON THE NIGHT.).

      Cars – Ample car parking is available close by.

      Buses – In addition to local town services the pub is approx. 200 yards from a stop serving express services covering,
      Dundee Edinburgh…X54
      Dundee Kirkcaldy…X53
      St.Andrews Glasgow…X24
      Leven Glasgow…X26
      St Andrews Edinburgh…X59

      Train – The east coast main line runs through Markinch Station
      (approx 5 Minutes by Taxi) and the Fife Circle line which runs through Thornton Station (also 5 minutes by taxi).

      Overnight Stays
      Close by, easily accessible and affordable are the following,
      Holiday Inn Express, Premier Inn, Golden Acorn, Drummonds Hotel, Gilvenbank Hotel. All are approx 5 to 10 minutes away by taxi.

      Also looking for a big local turnout as well, so if you stay in the area but have never been to one of these wonderful social gatherings then come along and enjoy the Craic.

      I have also had interest from a few of the the local punters and so have extended the invitation to them.

      Fingertips now bleeding again so I’ll leave it there pro tem. Feel free to contact me through the site if you need any more info.

      Regular reminders to follow but keep this info for reference.

      Hope to see lots of you there,

    405. Marie Clark says:

      Hi lads and lassies, howz everybuddy doin.I haven’t posted for a wee while, but I must admit to being absolutely scunnert wi’ the MT at the moment. The bickering and backbiting is hellish, it’s even been that bad that the REV has waded in a couple of times.We all know what these disrupters are aboot, but the same wingers take them on time and again, in spite o’ being telt aff.If they keep it up they’ll be chasing others away from the MT.

      I’ve been there since afore the Ref, and it used to be great fun as well as educational. We had a lot of regular wingers and a lot of them have all disappeared. I read the MT every day, but I haven’t felt that I wanted to post anything at all. I know it’s mostly because there’s not much happening besides the Brexit crap, but oh man, I’m bored, bored,bored.

      Rant over, deep breath and breath.

    406. Tinto Chiel says:

      Marie: preaching to the choir, sister.

      I was saying to another Winger recently that we’ve lost a lot of good contribuors: Petra, Fiona, JLT, Tam Jardine, John King, Jimanarlene, Ruby und so weiter.

      Instead we now have a parliament of fools with The Usual Suspects spouting their Carmichael and attacking individual posters of long standing.

      No wonder I hug a tree/standing stone.

    407. Daisy Walker says:

      Marie Clark, Tinto Chiel,

      I take very deliberate heart from the increase in disgreebles on the mt, and yes it is exacerbated by a lack of news in the mainstream (which I think is deliberate, no more gifts like Murphy or Kezia).

      They are working their little cotton socks off. I think we’ve got them rattled.

      I try to deliberately find something useful and positive to say, just to keep the good stuff going, and I also don’t bite.

      So, latest good news, I was at work and the news was on, about the Poisoning / lets blame Russia was on – and straight away they said, that’s shite, it was the Americans behind it. Now I’ve not talked about this incident with them in any way, and these guys generally only do football…. WM rubbish isn’t working on them.

      We are going to win folks, one bit of decency at a time.

    408. chasanderson200 says:

      Daisy Walker,
      I entirely agree with you, we definitely have the buggers rattled and under no circumstances should we engage with them.

      I am aware that this can be very difficult at times but please folks “DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS”. They are not there to be persuaded or converted: only to disrupt the flow and stir the s*** with a smirk on their faces when they get a response.

    409. Thepnr says:

      @Daisy Walker

      Well said 🙂 I was like that for a bit just wanting to give up but instead I changed my mind. We are allowed that right?

      I’ll just keep posting what I hope are positive and informative posts, there was a time of course where I would attack trolls mercilessly but that is behind me.

      We’re in different times now and for me to come out ranting and swearing probably is not for the best even though I feel like doing so I just avoid the temptation.

      That too tells me something, I think we are winning 🙂

      Let them make fools of themselves, remain positive and carry on as if they don’t even exist which does hurt them a lot when they realise they are ineffective.

      That’s my plan anyway, hope it works lol.

    410. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Daisy Walker: yes, I noticed you ploughing on regardless with some constructive comments. Macart’s “Walk on by” doctrine is the only way to go but some normally sane commenters just can’t seem to help themselves and then it’s like pouring petrol on a fire.

      I’m sure the present situation does deter some people who used to post frequently, though.

    411. Marie Clark says:

      @ Daisy Walker, aye you’re right Daisy. I reckon that we have them well and truly rattled, and I do think that we’ll win. I admire you, Thepnr, Macart and a few others, plowing on and trying to be positive. But, and it’s a big but, I am so tired of folks, who should know better, and have been told, even by Himself,recently, DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

      These buggers are not there to discuss, debate or learn. They have only one purpose, and as long as someone bites and engages with them, then they win. Now, one of the newer ones, who has only been there a few days, and has been very aggresive from the start, has reported a regular winger to the Rev, but also to the Polis. Good grief, this one has done nothing but accuse anyone who disagrees with it of bullying. So it’s now got what it wanted. Nae doot we’ll be seeing aboot nasty cybernats again. Sheesh.

      We are all on the same side, and want the same thing, namely Independence for Scotland. We have enough negativity from the MSM and the BBC to contend with. We just don’t need any of this. I think maybe it’s just the one troll under different names.

      It takes it’s toll day after day all the crap flying about, but if they think that it will put the likes of me off, weel, nae chance pal, I’m in it to win it as they say.

    412. Macart says:

      Don’t worry about the main thread folks. This site is read by around 300k bods every month. They’re not stupid and they can smell a wrong un just as we can.

      Each commenter has a different style. Some like to challenge what they see as outrageous posts, some comment third person and some walk on by. Readers know who they want to focus on when they visit. They’ll firstly focus on the post and then they’ll look for a fav commenter’s input and the conversations they have surrounding that input.

      The important point is that we’re all different in our approach to a thread and so is the readership’s. They’ll do what they think necessary to enjoy their reading experience. 😉

    413. Fred says:

      @ Cameron, sorry about your loss kid, a hard time even for a philosopher!

      @ Tinto, too cauld for Kelpie’s even, Cearc’s Muscovy sounds the business. Was served the cearc fraoich wanst & don’t care if I never tackle another! A perr o pheasants make rerr chicken soup but!

      The Plumber & the Pearl are just superb, pity the Rev is casting pearls before swine on the MT on a daily basis. Wonder if the auld team are looking in & just shakin the heid?

    414. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Can I just say that if you abandon Wings because of the trolls you are letting the trolls win.

    415. Fred says:

      @ Dave, what happened to the head of James Wilson, I thought the body was obtained by some of his relatives?

    416. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Fred at 10.48

      I don’t know. The family I believe got the body and interred it unmarked.

      The 1820 Society might know.

    417. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks Fred.

      More on the relationship between culture, discrimination and how post-colonial malaise determined the Brexit vote.


      The first appearance of the term ‘race’ in the English language occurred in 1508 and linked it with unconscious forces. It appeared in a poem on the seven deadly sins by a Scot named Dunbar who referred to those who followed envy as including ‘bakbyttaris of sindry recis’ (backbiters of sundry races (Banton, 1987, p. 1). If we look at treatises on racism, we find them full of very primitive, Kleinian language. Here is a list of terms I have extracted from a book on the psychoanalysis of racism which stresses the projection of intrapsychic phenomena into the political and treats them largely in terms of diseased or malignant internal objects: foreign bodies, germs, pollutants, contaminants, malignancies, poisonous infections, gangrenous limbs, dirty, suppurating, verminous (Koenigsberg, 1977). This brings to mind the representation of Jews as gutter rats in Nazi propaganda films and the rhetoric of competing political tendencies discussed by Martin Thom in an article on projection in left sectarian rhetoric, in which opponents were characterised as shitty, nauseating and their ideas as spew, vomit, etc. (Thom, l978).

      Overcoming Racism, Discrimination and Oppression in Psychotherapy

      To understand the very complex nature of racism, oppression and discrimination in psychotherapy, an interdisciplinary perspective incorporating research from social psychology, developmental psychology, sociology, cross-cultural psychology counselling psychology and education must be taken into account. Such perspectives help broaden our understanding of individual and collective identity and other complex dynamics involving issues of power,
      powerlessness, the dominant and the dominated.

      The Genesis of English Nationalism

      English nationalism is best understood as a bundle of sentiments and convictions which are closely aligned to Euroscepticism, though not in any straightforward way a cause of anti-EU feeling. A stronger sense of Englishness represents both a manifestation of, and vehicle for, a gathering seam of political disenchantment.

      Perhaps the most important role played by English nationalism in the EU referendum was in relation to the terms and tenor of the campaign that led up to the vote. English nationalism primed audiences for some of the main rhetorical gambits of the ‘Leave’ campaign, and helped engender a sense of conviction and a greater commonality of outlook for groups of voters increasingly disenchanted with the political mainstream. Without the cadences, rhetorical flourishes and mental frameworks associated with a loose form of English nationalism, the referendum campaign would have felt and sounded very different….

      ….Those most inclined to support Brexit were far more likely to choose Englishness as their primary national identity, while those who rated their sense of Britishness more highly, tended to favour staying in the EU. This highlights a gradual bifurcation in national self-understanding which has been happening for some considerable time. It constitutes a notable, but under-examined, feature of the pattern of national sentiments that helped shape perceptions of the UK’s membership of the EU….

      ….There is, therefore, a vital back story to the recent salience of English nationalism which needs to be told if we are to understand its role in the EU referendum campaign. Those at the helm of the Remain campaign were fatefully indifferent to the swirls of culture and identity that formed the context within which audiences received its messages. Its precautionary arguments were premised upon a very different understanding of what counts as ‘rationality’ to that produced by the shifting national mood of many of the English. The sense of purpose and prospective emancipation channelled by those lobbying for Brexit goes some way to explaining the high levels of turnout achieved for ‘Leave’ in various parts of England.

      This is not to suggest that all who chose Brexit did so because of English nationalism. Many who did vote to leave the EU subscribe to an older model of parliamentary sovereignty and the associated mythology of unitary statehood, while others will have supported this option out of discontent about the undemocratic character of Brussels. But the Leave campaign was able to gain traction among English publics and achieve momentum speaking the language of English disenfranchisement, and this appears to have caught those campaigning for Remain unawares….

    418. Macart says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Just caught up about your loss. Condolences to you and your family.

    419. Fred says:

      @ Dave, the body was quickly buried in the paupers section of the High Kirkyard but rescued? by his daughter & taken to Strathaven. The body wasn’t quartered as per the sentence, fine the authorities knew that the vast crowd wouldn’t stand it. The head one presumes went in the coffin as per the Stirling executions as there were to be no heads displayed on spikes. This was essentially an English court with a jury of 12 & barbarous enough without going through with this full English sentence. I don’t understand the missing head business, a Rural Myth? I’m a member of the 1820 as is Donald Anderson.

    420. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks mate.

    421. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for being a space-hog folks but it’s all coming back to me as the story of Britain’s demise unfolds. I hope this helps folk navigate through the smoke and mirrors.

      The role of projective identification in constructing the “Other”: Why do Westerners want to “liberate” Muslim women?


      This commentary offers a cultural psychological understanding of the traditionally psychoanalytic notion of projective identification to explore the ironic way that majority and minority cultures can influence each other. In the target paper (Wagner, Sen, Permanadeli, & Howarth, 2012), the Western gaze operates ironically by constructing minority Muslim women as needing liberation. This leads to their resistance, through increased religious observance, which requires giving up their individual freedom. Understood as a circular and monological process of projective-identification designed to protect off-limit areas of meaning making, dialogue requires each culture to take ownership of these areas.

      Is there an English Nationalism?

      Nationalism is not merely about community in struggle but also and centrally about questions of power. Power is what is so frequently sought by nationalists, and very often in the form of a state which matches the nation. The deployment of power in pursuit of nationalist objectives defines – and again, I think, helps to explain – nationalist activity. It might even be suggested that, at root, nationalism is really a politics of legitimising power. Nationalists tend to assume the nation to be the appropriate source of political authority, and therefore to seek power for their own distinctive national community. The legitimacy of national power involves the attractive prospect of those in power in your community being like yourself, coming from your own national group and representing your own interests and values.

      Nationalism Is Rising, Not Fascism

      Nationalism is the core of the Enlightenment’s notion of liberal democracy. It asserts that the multinational dynasties that ruled autocratically denied basic human rights. Among these was the right to national self-determination and the right of citizens to decide what was in the national interest. The Enlightenment feared tyranny and saw the multinational empires dominating Europe as the essence of tyranny. Destroying them meant replacing them with nation-states. The American and French revolutions were both nationalist risings, as were the nationalist risings that swept Europe in 1848. Liberal revolutions were by definition nationalist because they were risings against multinational empires.

      Fascism differs from nationalism in two profound ways. First, self-determination was not considered a universal right by fascists. Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini and Francisco Franco, to mention three obvious fascists, only endorsed nationalism for Germany, Italy and Spain. The rights of other nations to a nation-state of their own was at best unclear to the fascists. In a very real sense, Hitler and Mussolini believed in multinationalism, albeit with other nations submitting to their will. Fascism in its historical form was an assault on the right of nations to pursue their self-interest, and an elevation of the fascists’ right to pursue it based on an assertion of their nations’ inherent superiority and right to rule.

      But the more profound difference was the conception of internal governance. Liberal nationalism accepted that the right to hold power was subject to explicit and periodic selection of the leaders by the people. How this was done varied. The American system is very different from the British, but the core principles remain the same. It also requires that opponents of the elected have the right to speak out against them, and to organize parties to challenge them in the future. Most important, it affirms that the people have the right to govern themselves through these mechanisms and that those elected to lead must govern in the people’s name. Leaders must also be permitted to govern and extra-legal means cannot be used to paralyze the government, any more than the government has the right to suppress dissent.

      P.S. From this Scot’s perspective, British/English nationalism is becoming increasingly deterministic and fascistic in nature.

    422. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. From this Scot’s perspective, British/English nationalism is becoming increasingly deterministic and fascistic in nature.

      P.S. From this Scot’s perspective, the deterministic and fascistic nature of British nationalism is becoming increasingly apparent.

    423. CameronB Brodie says:

      Farage (as in garage), played on England’s post-colonial malaise and the BBC gave him excessive opportunity to do so. Now Scotland’s sociopolitical environment is threatened as a consequence of another nation’s sense of psychopolitical narcissistic injury.

      The Rational and the Irrational in Nationalism


      In comparison to other questions related to nationalism (for example, is nationalism more a pre?modern or modern phenomenon? Is it more of a political or ethno?cultural nature?), relatively little attention has been devoted to the question of whether nationalism is more rational or irrational. Weber’s definition of instrumentally rational and value?rational action has been used in this analysis to determine to what extent nationalism is rational or irrational. The analysis has focused mainly on those concepts of nationalism and those phenomena associated with nationalism that are predominantly irrational or extra?rational. Some psychological and anthropological constants constitute the irrational (extra?rational) side of nationalism. Nationalism as a Janus?faced phenomenon comprises the irrational (extra?rational) and the rational. The rational and irrational overlap quite profoundly in numerous manifestations of nationalist behaviour.

      Psychopolitics of the Current Nationalism


      This article examines the current rise of Western nationalism. The deleterious effects of globalization have inflicted a narcissistic injury on vulnerable groups in Western society. The affected masses seek affiliation with an ideology that empowers them and that has the potential to effect change in their favor. A range of security issues are inherent in this psychopolitical phenomenon, including a rise in ethno-nationalist terrorism. Policy makers must reconsider global policy in a manner that takes this psychopolitical phenomenon into consideration.

      Minority Influence

    424. cearc says:


      I like the PS. Although, I think that it is really feudalism rather than facism, similar in many respects.

    425. cearc says:

      I will be driving down to Glenrothes on friday. If anyone in the vicinity wants to make egg sarnies I could deliver them a load eggs on saturday (or they could collect them from Holiday Inn fri evening).

    426. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not disagreeing, both being intrinsically authoritarian modes of social organisation.

    427. Flower of Scotland says:


      I just took the bull by the horns and said I couldn’t manage the wedding party. My name will be mud, but I can’t miss a Wings night so near me!

      See you all Saturday!

    428. Liz g says:

      Flower of Scotland @ 2.03
      My yer a bold wummin FoS.
      Glad of it though..
      Hope yer no in too much trouble
      See ye there then.

    429. K1 says:

      I see people doon sooth ur huvin their ‘NickBBcLiarRobinson’ moment wrt to Corbyn and Jewdas story alongside oor wee diddy Andrew Neil’s obvious and total bias wrt to Cambridge Analytica et al? (turns out he’s actually at the heart of all the ‘connections’ involved in SCL/CA et al, with his ‘secret’ Tory dinners society…I mean how can we take these fucking clowns seriously…)

      Hate to say it…time they woke the fuck up down there and realised what a shower of utter lying bastards the BBC are and that is what their ‘actual’ job is, to protect the fucking elite and theirr shady, sick and corrupt little clique from the prols. They are a clear and present threat and danger to Scotland and our democracy.

      I could not give a flying fuck what happens in England in this regard, not one of those now complaining, including the Observer journalist who is at the heart of CA story nor any so called other ‘prominent voices’ now bemoaning the coverage of Skripnal/CA and now Jewdas, not one of them investigated the sham that was No Borders, the No campaign’s outright lies, and where was the investigation into the Labour party’s call centre phoning pensioners to frighten them into voting No by telling them their pensions where under threat?

      Where were the ‘big time’ professional journalists then?

      It’s a fucking joke all of this crap.

      We need outta of this fucked up ‘little England’ centric dominion. So fucking tired of all of this!

    430. Tinto Chiel says:

      @K1: spot-on. JC’s being skewered on the Russky/anti-Semitic spike by the BBC but Labour were quite happy to see it lie and misrepresent the Yes movement when it suited them.

      Fred: there seems to be no mention of the fate of Purlie Wilson’s head in the 1820 Society’s wee booklet on the uprisings by J. Halliday.

      Ellis and Mac A’Ghobhainn’s The Scottish Insurrection of 1820 says that the “mangled remains” were placed in the coffin and buried in the paupers’ grave section in Glasgow High Kirk before clandestine removal to Strathaven as you described. This implies to me his head and body were buried together.

      These men, however, from an earlier time and conflict, definitely lost their heads, which had to be buried separately, and their right hands:

      Christopher or Cristall Strang was from Lickprivick in East Kilbride. Strang is still a common name in the farming community in that area.

    431. Fred says:

      Cheers Tinto, interesting site!

    432. Chick McGregor says:

      Setting up a new PC I found a wee pome wot I wrote many years ago when we lived in Inverclyde and which explored the tender parent child relationships which typified that time.

      Talking of PC, well it isnae these days.

      Arragonna ma?
      by C McGregor

      Arragonna foldra paper onra table?
      Arragonna mak a dug ma,
      Orra swan?
      Arragonna mak a cat,
      Paper boat or paper hat?
      Arragonna origami a day long?

      Hud yer wheesht, yer chatter’s daein ma heid in.

      Arragonna mak some pizzas onra table?
      Arragona mak em spicy,
      mak em strong?
      Arragonna yaze yon dill?
      Pepper, bay Leaf or basil?
      Arragonna oregano a day long?

      Ah mean it, hud yer wheesht, yer chatter’s daein ma heid in

      Arragonna dae some writin’ onra table?
      Arragona write a book ma
      Orra song?
      Arragonna dae it now?
      Write a novel orra – OW!!
      Arragonna skelp ma puss ma a day long?

    433. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Fred at 8.49

      It was Jim Mitchell, who established where the unmarked grave was, who said the head was not in it. I don’t know any more about it than that.

    434. Daisy Walker says:

      A horse walked into a pub, took one look at the bartender and said, ‘I whinnae bother if yir goan tae do that one about, ‘why the long face’.

      The bartender said, I would never say, ‘why the long fact’ tae a dug.

      The horse said, ‘whit dae ye mean a dug, I’m a wee bit horse.’

      The barman said, ‘I thought you were a wee bit husky, sorry, nae wonder ye’ve got a long face.’

      Best wishes to all. Peace and love.

    435. Smallaxe says:

      Daisy Walker,

      Dis a fi yuh Daisy, I’n’I mi wish Peace an Love to Yuh an Yuh Fambly;
      One Love, seen?

    436. cearc says:


      That is a truly, wincingly, terrible joke!

    437. Thepnr says:


      It was not what I expected but enjoyed it all the same. Thought I’d get this one.

      Stay strong and see you soon.

    438. Smallaxe says:


      I’n’I looking forward to seeing yuh again mi bredren inna mi world;
      Fi yuh wi be a very welcome visit.

    439. Chick McGregor says:

      Macron is Tony Blair mark II.
      An ex investment banker for Rothschild and strong believer in a neo-liberalist style free market and austerity he has strongly supported anti worker’s rights legislation.

      Strange that he seems determined to belatedly bring about the neo-liberal madness in France just when that insane policy’s all too predictably disastrous consequences have been clearly rendered manifest in the Anglo American economies for all to see.

      However, the French population, judging by his spectacular fall in popularity, seem far more clued up than the highly propaganda controlled Brits or Yanks. It is also debateable whether the French police will be such willing and necessarry government instruments of control as was the case for Thatcher and Blair in this forlorn hellhole.

    440. cearc says:


      Ah, the gardener’s song.

    441. Thepnr says:

      @Chick McGregor

      What happened to the old avatar? Somehow it sited you better.

    442. Thepnr says:

      “suited” LOL

    443. Chick McGregor says:

      “What happened to the old avatar? Somehow it sited you better”

      Although it was only taken during indyref1, my appearance has aged a lot since so felt it was no longer a fair representation.

    444. yesindyref2 says:

      Keep an eye on the MT folks, in case anyone gives personal details to a troll.

    445. Macart says:


      If you’re reading Nana, I hope you’re keeping well. NOT THAT I’M WORRIED. 😉

    446. cearc says:


      Sssh,I’ll let you into a secret. Capella looks a tad older than her avatar photie but it doesn’t worry her.

    447. Tinto Chiel says:

      I see the trolls on the M/T are now talking to each other. Either that or it’s the one wee guy in his Winceyette dressing gown with a multiple-personality disorder.

      It’s a funny old game, Saint.

      *Attains Zen-like state by staring at a silver birch*

    448. Smallaxe says:


      Nana sends her regards, my friend, she is in quite a bit of pain with her hands and mentally pained by the amount of trolling on the M/T. She is taking some time off for a bit of RnR.

    449. Macart says:


      Thought that might be the case. Give Nana my best if you’re in touch.

      As for MT? Yes there is a fair amount these days and in a twisted way it’s quite a good thing. It lets people know two things.

      1. Just what a threat the opposition consider the site to be
      2. That they’re just as aware of what’s likely to happen in the very near future as we are and need this site either spoiled or taken out altogether

      The latter is unlikely and the former would take a great deal more than a handful spoilers. Best advice to follow is the REVs. Don’t react to them directly. Don’t even refer to them via a secondary post. Send him an email if you’re at all concerned and I’d personally add walk on by.

      Spoilers thrive on contact and notice. They don’t care about debate. Refutation of their thread busters won’t phase them in the slightest. They are kept current throughout a thread by constant reference to their posting. You can’t get rid of them easily either, but you can limit their visibility by no giving them any. Readers choose the kind of experience they can have. Probably the most pissed off person at this point will be the Rev himself.

      Anyroads, have a good one Smallaxe. 🙂

    450. Smallaxe says:


      We’re on the same page with that, my friend. I will tell Nana that you send her your best next time I speak to her.

      Keep on keepin’ on.

    451. Smallaxe says:

      Internet Trolls: The Musical;

      Handsome bastards, int they!

    452. Liz g says:

      Smallaxe @ 1.21
      Can you also pass on my best wishes to Nana as well please Smallaxe?

      Good to see you posting too,hope you are keeping well.
      Tell Mrs Smallaxe I’m askin for her.X

    453. Smallaxe says:

      Liz g,

      Will do, Liz, I hope you and yours are well my friend.

    454. Ruglonian says:

      Hiya, just popping in to say that I’m coming up to Glenrothes on Saturday – can’t wait to see you all 🙂

    455. Cactus says:

      Excellent, shaping up good for Glenrothes.

      Cheers for the model song TC.

      Be visible this weekend.

      On the roads.



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