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Notice of rule change

Posted on September 13, 2016 by

The old rules (NB these apply to us):



And the new rules (NB these apply to them):



Everyone clear?

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    1. 14 09 16 02:57

      Notice of rule change | speymouth

    266 to “Notice of rule change”

    1. alexicon says:

      She couldn’t answer one question put to her last night by the STV reporter, not one.

    2. vlad (not that one) says:

      A case of forked tongue, methinks.

    3. Davie Reynolds says:

      Not only did Ruthie fail to answer qns put to her last night she also managed to get in a #SNPbad answer completely unrelated to the 1st qn. Now that’s the Tory way

    4. bugsbunny says:

      In other words do as I say, not as I do. The party of hypocrisy. If this was poker you would have to show her your hand, whilst you would just have to take her word that she’s got a winning hand without ever seeing the cards.

    5. Macart says:

      Pretty much.

      The old rules, same as the new rules. One rule for us another for…etc.

      Their necks must be on permaswivel by this point surely? Anyroads I’m past the point of giving a flying squirrel what Ruth or the other branch managers say in Holyrood’s opposition benches these days.

      Its the organ grinder we need to have eyes on at this point. 😉

    6. Arbroath1320 says:

      So basically we are in the situation where it is a case of:

      “Don’t do as I do … do as I say … or else!” 😀

      “WE are the party of government … in England … so it is only right and fitting that WE get to choose who decides what is said about Brexit/independence … and WHEN it is said!” 😛

    7. blackhack says:

      Ruthie has more faces than the central station clock.
      She says one thing then contradicts herself with another statement…So when the excrament hits the fan she claims only the one statement that suits her and forgets the other one…..She forgets that the internet has it all recorded.

    8. One_Scot says:

      Ruth Davidson is no more than an opportunistic Westminster mouthpiece puppet, who will say anything to appease her ruling masters in their effort to keep Scotland down.

    9. Proud Cybernat says:

      Do as we say, not as we do.

      Got it.

    10. mogabee says:

      Clear as the pond at the bottom of my garden.

      *hint* I don’t have a pond.

      Tories: will always do the right thing…for them, their friends and those who help them up their greasy pole.

      Same as it ever was and anyone thinking they “seem pretty fair”, as told to me recently! needn’t look to me for sympathy when they get f**ked by Tory policies. 🙁

    11. Clootie says:

      …are you guys expecting a level playing field?

    12. TheItalianJob says:

      Two faced waste of space who is now retracting her early support for remain. Usual politico toeing the party line to suit her own needs.

      Darling of the media for her and her party’s showing in the Scottish elections.

      Tory through and through with no great substance to argue for Scotland or her people.

      Come the next indyref she will have to front the No campaign along with whoever is in charge of the Labour Party in Scotland and Wille Rennie. There will be no Scottish MPs to fight the no cause but I presume they will resurrect the usual suspects including Paw Broon and whoever else they can muster.

    13. Joemcg says:

      Aye they wanted the tiniest details clarified about Scottish independence yet cannot or will not answer the simplest question over Brexit.

    14. galamcennalath says:

      Exceptionalism and entitlement.

      The rules haven’t changed, there is one set for the ruling class and another set for the commoners.

      May as leader of the Tories and PM of England, is by definition, elite.

      Everyone in the SNP are not only Bad, but ever so common. 🙂

      Davidson would love to be one of the ruling elites too. Sadly, she’s Scottish, so has nae chance.

    15. Iain says:

      Gabbles, but there’s nothing behind it.

      The belief in the UK is genuine enough, but strangely emotional: I remember her almost breaking down on Question Time, when stating how proud she was of her campaigning for a No vote.

    16. Greannach says:

      Just as we thought Kezia Dugdale or Willie Rennie were a shoo-on for Great British Inept Party Leader.

    17. John H. says:

      Ruth Davidson has absolutely no talent whatsoever. What she does have however, is the entire MSM and BBC on her side to protect her and to project her image. She is immature, vindictive and opportunistic.

      Whenever I hear her name, the picture I get is of her behaviour during that so called debate prior to the 2015 GE. Giggling along with Rennie as Murphy verbally assaulted Nicola Sturgeon. Disgusting people.

    18. Effijy says:

      Looks like further evidence that Fat Boab Davidson is a two faced liar.

      One rule for the rich Tories and no rules for the plebs, especially Scottish ones.

      I couldn’t stomach watching that wee cretin on TV, but I’d be astonished if the Westminster supporting host enquired about her Guaranteed Promise of a major ship building order
      for the Clyde, that was reduced, then delayed, and now sunk
      on the sea bed along with all the other Tory Lies.

    19. Scott says:

      Still on Davidson do we know if she has answered the FMs letter and as she was very vocal about Michelle Thomson and Natalie McGarry money affairs will she remove the whip from MSP Alexander Burnett who is under investigation over his election expenses.

    20. David says:

      Looks as though the Conservative and unionist party have picked up where the Unionist Labour party left off.

    21. Jim Thomson says:

      @alexicon 10:43

      Do you mean couldn’t or didn’t – there’s a difference.

      Not the sort of tosh I’d watch in any case. You are a brave soul. Respect.

    22. See my post of yesterday. We are in the middle stages of the murphyfication of Davidson. It will inevitably become apparent to the well informed (if it is not already so) that she is without serious political ability and then somebody laughs and she becomes a liability.
      Then we get Murdo (or the professor).

    23. Lochside says:

      Lying,dissembling,dishonest, two faced sociopath.Just what Tory minded voters and colonial media love about Davidson. If you genuinely loved Scotland and felt Independence really was a threat to our people,would you really want a disreputable failed voice over artist representing you? This lying fat article plus Willie wonka of the fib dems and kezia ‘toon clock’ Dugdale of SLab make an unholy trinity of toom tabards…a disgrace to themselves and will be judged so by history.

    24. Grouse Beater says:

      She’s the human equivalent of a speed bump, and just as charismatic.

    25. Valerie says:

      Ruth is doing a fine job as Indy recruiting sergeant.

      Nasty party really coming to the fore now, and clamming up is a classic ‘back against the wall’ tactic.

      Just read a Guardian review of status of Brexit. It was actually pretty accurate, right down to saying economists are forecasting a standstill growth. That will be the standstill prior to plunging off the cliff.

      The storm clouds are gathering, it’s why Cameron has left, that rat can read the runes.

      Ruth now going through the motions of propaganda. Her panel of has beens? Who cares?

    26. Marie Clark says:

      Sigh. So what’s new. You lot (us) do as your told. I demand every bitty detail of your indy ref2 plans, now, this very minute. She seems to be obsessed with indy ref and it hasn’t even been called yet. Strange woman Rooth the mooth.

      Meanwhile, back at the ranch, right Roothie, what’s the plan from your tory government for brexit, which is mighty important for the UK. How very day you common people ask that. It’s none of your business. I’ll not tell you anything till I want to, plebs.

      Get back in your box and eat your cereal.

      I’m long past the stage of caring what any of the tories of all colours at Holyrood have to say. How about they actually get back to what their day job should be, like, oh, scrutising SG policies and working on what’s best for Scotland. SNP bad does not make good opposition.

    27. Iain says:

      There was a time when I thought of Ruthie, ‘nice girl, just got in with a bad crown who led her astray’. Not a thought I’ve had for a while. After outshining Kezia, she’s now getting a bit like her – all over the place.

    28. heedtracker says:

      Its for our own good. They saved us from Scotland actually being run by the people of Scotland and now they’re saving us from er, being EU citizens too.

      It must be true, BBC Scotland says vote tory Ruth. They used to tell us to vote tory Kez but dont seem to do that with the same conviction they once had, a few months back.

    29. I have never rated Ruth Davidson as a politician, she is in the same category as Kezia Dugdale, both have no substance to them.

      They will bend to which ever way of the prevailing wind is blowing.
      We saw that with Davidson’s U-turn after her line in the sand commitment to no more powers for the Scottish Parliament.

    30. ScottishPsyche says:

      It makes you aware of how much the MSM have to window dress the opposition in Scotland to make them credible. Having invested their time and energy in Dugdale to no avail, and now Davidson, you can see why they take the job on themselves.

      Her crack team of uberYoons are ‘terrifying’- you would certainly never see any of them on a Tory Party boondoggle. Also good to see Adam Tomkins getting a wee shout as we never really see or hear anything from him.

      Also poor Ms McFadyen appears to have gone full Yoon now.

    31. Embradon says:

      Dave McEwan Hill

      Thanks Dave. You just planted the image of RuDa as the Emperor with no clothes.

      Very disturbing.

    32. Arbroath1320 says:

      I wonder how long it will take wee Ruthie the Leetle tankette commander before she goes all SNP BAAAD over this! 😉

    33. Papadox says:

      A the old Tory mantra. We the rich people hand out the rules to the peasants, they don’t apply to the upper crust, they are applied by the upper crust.
      The nasty sycophant Ruth works and speaks for the London elite against the Scottish people as any and all unionist politicians do. And greatfully accept the London blood money for their efforts. Aye bought and sold for English gold. They are a credit to their class, and no shame, the lowest of the low.
      However they do talk nicely and that makes them better than the lower classes. Nasty nasty people. Imo

    34. Arbroath1320 says:

      It looks like wee Ruthie the Leetle tankette commander can not escape the xenophobia that is the Tory party. The Consular Councillor for French Nationals has written to her now. 😀

    35. Neil Cook says:

      Why doesn’t the SNP call a press conference and announce that they are not going to build any warships also. Then just point at the media and go print that now.

      Time they started playing the media at their own game, call press conferences and announce we have nothing to announce today, business as usual. They hate them anyway, may as well waste as much of their time as possible. Surely they can employ a chief mischief maker to deal with the press. Feed them as much bullshit stories and then do what the Tories do and say its his personal opinion and not party policy.

    36. Valerie says:

      Just in regard to comments on last thread about Nissan.

      Not sure how many were aware, but Nissan were furious for months with the Leave campaign, on a point of principle.

      Leave used a lot of car logos, including Nissan, in a leaflet, asserting that all those car manufacturers said they would stay in the UK, regardless of the vote.

      This was a blatant lie. Nissan advised Leave, as recently as 21June, 2016, they were taking legal action against the Leave campaign.

      Not sure where it is now, probably academic, but UK had already upset Nissan greatly.

    37. defo says:

      Egalitarianism doesn’t build empires, and has no place in Ruthie types world. They make the rules, and write the history.

      Happily though, it won’t be for too much longer.

      As for herself, brass neck can only take you so far.

    38. heedtracker says:

      I have never rated Ruth Davidson as a politician, she is in the same category as Kezia Dugdale, both have no substance to them.

      She’s grown into the job though as top tory of the Scotland region. BBC ligger, dole, list tory MSP, 6 months in, offered Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party leader. So meteoric rise to teamGB greatness, torboys spotted real talent for thousands and thousands of photo ops of Ruth, arsing about in Scotland, last GE.

      And Ruth’s a working class tory too, which as we all know in Scotland, being a working class tory is the very very best kind of tory to have. Upper class tories are hopeless.

      Also, my Slovene girlfriend and Ruth’s standard bearer in chief says he lives in a one party state, but he’s frightfully annoyed at told he’s a working class tory. That’s just a wee note to Glasgow freshers this year.

      This was very good but Prof T gave it a miss

    39. orri says:

      To paraphrase some french bloke talking about stealing bread and living under bridges there’s only one rule. It’s that the Conservative Party are the ones who should be in control of all information and its distribution. So we peons must tell them everything they want to know whilst they can treat us like mushrooms.

    40. Robert says:

      Effijy at 11:13.
      Ms Davidson’s behaviour may be that of “a two faced liar”, but it’s not helpful to say “Fat Boab Davidson is a two faced liar”.

      Looks a the support Jeremy Corbyn gets from people who notice that he never says anything nasty about anyone. We need all the support we can get!

    41. Dr Jim says:

      Only a short time ago Davidson was banging her fist on a desk on National TV and calling the Brexiters Liars and fantasists and berating Boris Johnson in particular

      Today when asked about this she says it’s an opportunity to support the liars and fantasists and Boris can speak for himself even though she had plenty to say about Boris before

      And she has always been consistant in that view

      Nobody on this planet can tell me that NO voters can’t see through this pile of lies and it brings me to this….

      There are NO voters who will refuse to get it because they don’t want to, they want to share nothing, they want to contribute nothing, they are racist sectarian bigots who like their lives as they are and don’t want to change anything unless it means them becoming even more comfortable or even more unpleasant, but they will accept free tuition for universities, they will accept free prescriptions, bus passes, winter fuel allowance, public space maintainance and every advantage on offer without a single thought as to how it’s provided

      And this is where our most powerfull parliament in the known universe comes in, when UK slash Scotlands budget this year coming and bring in even more austerity cuts which means, (well we know what it means) less cash all around, the right wing everything will launch themselves into a frenzy of blaming the SNP government and the Tories will help them all they can at Holyrood by attempting to block every idea the SNP come up with

      When I say “The Tories at Holyrood” I mean Labour Tory and Lib Dem and even the Greens if they think there’s some political advantage to gain

      Theresa May and her death eaters will be way in excess of anything Cameron ever did she is English village mentality to the core and that’s good for you if you’re one of those people but bad for almost everybody else not only in Scotland but England and Wales as well

      Right now I’d put money on no MOD ships being built in Scotland but built or purchased somewhere else cheaper, more spent on beefing up Trident and the purchase of war planes from whoever is selling them cheapest, Global Trade Deals they said, and arms deals make good money for those in the get rich business, plus you get the bonus of all the new friends you’ll make around the world with your new found Independent Globalisation

      All she has to do is find a convenient enemy to demonise, whip up some British Nationalism, invade somebody insignificant (after they’ve done something terrible of course) and she’s elected to the office she was parachuted into while Jeremy Corbyn and what’s left of his crew sink into ignominious obscurity weeping into their latte with extra cream and sprinkles and blaming the electorate “Again”

      (Strokes chin) Can we do the Falklands again or does it have to be the fuzzy wuzzies, they tend to fight back

    42. McDuff says:

      The new TNS poll has Yes on 47% and No on 53%, yet a poll being conducting today by the Unionist Scotsman has currently YES on 61% and no on 35%.
      So what`s going on.

    43. Fraser says:

      in your face ‘loud and clear’ hypocrite, deaf arrogance, belligerent with a poker face like a camels arse.

    44. heedtracker says:

      The new TNS poll has Yes on 47% and No on 53%, yet a poll being conducting today by the Unionist Scotsman has currently YES on 61% and no on 35%.
      So what`s going on.

      Check the pollsters questions, which often freak out the respondent and end with, “If there was a Scottish independence referendum tomorrow, would you vote YES or NO?”

      I could be wrong but people are cautious in these things at best, there clearly isn’t a ref tomorrow and if there really was one, and it was YES, imagine the catastrofuck up our imperial master baiters in merry olde London would make of all of it. See Brexit.

    45. hamish says:

      Would you trust Ruthie to drive your tank ?

    46. Bill McDermott says:

      I can remember Ruth Davidson when she was on Newsdrive on BBC Radio Scotland. She came across as opinionated then and always seemed as if she had just done the jolly hockeysticks thing. In another life Ruth would have been a strong advocate for Cheltenham Girls School and I am sure her hidden agenda is to turn Scottish education into a version of Edinburgh education.

    47. heedtracker says:

      Why has silly old Dunc not used this to smear WoS, or the WoS hatemob, yet.

      Duncan Hothersall
      Walking this am with my husband an angry man berated us as “a pair of poofs” asking “where’s you’re Freddie Mercury CDs?” #topicalhomophobia

    48. HandandShrimp says:

      Ruth’s lot sound increasingly like UKIP, racist and reactionary. I am constantly surprised by how quickly the media transferred their free ride from Labour to the Tories.

      Any Unionist port in a storm eh guys? 🙂

    49. Bob Mack says:

      Why can’ t Ruth say anything?. Because Ruth knows as well as I do that any deals pending, will be to Englands’ advantage and at cost to Scotland. That is why.
      They plan on using our resources to barter for their own benefit. Nothing new I suppose, but it must not be spoken till after the sell out.

    50. K1 says:

      There’s only one thing worse than a lying angry hypocrite…Ruth Davidson.

    51. Gary45% says:

      Someone needs to take wee Ruthie Jong Un aside and show her, her arse and elbow, because each passing day it is becoming clearer she is clueless, a useless wee mouthpiece for even bigger numpties.
      Comments earlier about her moving south, she wouldn’t last a week in Engerland.
      And thanks to our southern cousins we will be stuck with this political quality for years, until we get Independence.

    52. K1 says:

      ‘They plan on using our resources to barter for their own benefit.’

      Exactly Bob.

      They’ve got sweet fuck all else to barter with.

    53. heedtracker says:

      I can remember Ruth Davidson when she was on Newsdrive on BBC Radio Scotland.

      BBC Scotland’s got several Ruth Davidson’s on the boil. Susan Calman’s one but there are several more just like her, all ferocious unionists too.

      It’l come down to who hires these people and a personal preference, you’d think. Calman would not appreciate being classed as a working class tory at all, like what Prof Adamski Tomkins MSP does. He’s a frightful oik.

    54. HandandShrimp says:

      I think the increasingly obvious reason that Ruth bangs on about independence and the Yoonion whilst waving 15 Union Jacks is that if the public got sight of what her party in Scotland is really like they would be back down to 14% in flash.

      It isn’t that she has nothing to say, like poor Kezia, but that she dare not say it.

    55. Breastplate says:

      Yoonatic rule No1.
      They’re our goalposts and we can move them when we want!

    56. Proud Cybernat says:

      How BBC Misreporting Scotland operates…

    57. Valerie says:

      @Dr Jim 12.10

      Agree with all that. I said a few days ago a war would help push up the price of oil, and boost sale of arms, both income streams for WM. The most likely opportunity would have been Syria, and Boris and Clinton were talking up escalation. However, USA and Russia are queering the pitch there, by talking cease-fire. USA are taking a pounding in Syria, so they need to back down.

      Just read Toynbee today, I normally detest her, but her piece was good, on how Mays honeymoon is well and truly over, and there is now a sizeable chunk of Tories turning against her.

      Nicky Morgan on Ligger show, completely dissing whole idea of Grammar schools, coming out of the blue at this time.

      HMS Britannia really creaking and groaning in this heavy weather. 🙂

    58. TheItalianJob says:

      As I’ve always stated.

      What’s worse than an English Tory. Answer – A Scots Tory!!!

    59. msean says:

      Typical Tories,they rules for them are different just for them.

    60. msean says:

      Typical Tories,they think the rules are different just for them.

    61. Lenny Hartley says:

      McDuff re polls, the one showing Yes behind is a proper Poll which sneakily asks a higher percentage of potential no voters how they would vote and the one in the Hootsman is an online poll which is often hijacked by evil cyber nats. So don’t believe any polls, there is only one that counts.

    62. winifred mccartney says:

      Surely no one is surprised that rooth the mooth is two faced – one rule for us and another for the plebs, its what the tories are and always have been. She never has had Scotlands interests at heart just another mouth piece for WM. She has no substance only self gratification and a ridiculous notion of entitlement and ‘we know best’ with a mission to keep Scotland paying for WM and the south while telling us we are too wee, too poor etc. She is very much like Kez and blows in whatever direction Westminster demands.

    63. Macart says:

      Apparently a tweet by Murdo Fraser: –

      “This Sturgeon slowdown could leave Scotland in recession while Britain thrives”

      1. Could anyone who does twatter confirm he’s actually said that?


      2. If he did then it begs a fairly obvious question since it appears Scotland and Britain are seen to be two separate entities. In fact there are several questions bound up in that one statement, but answering the screamingly obvious one would do for starters.

    64. Footsoldier says:

      The Herald having a beanfeast of anti-indy this week and it’s only Tuesday e.g. yesterday and today letters page headlines and letters and also yesterday’s anoymous Pinstripe from a “financial guru”.

      Also they seem to be using lots of agency material these days which reads like an outsider’s view of Scotland. Must be because they paid off most of their journalists and now depend on contributors who keep saying the same thing using different words. What a shadow of a once great newspaper.

    65. Grey Dug says:

      So at some point, they are going to trigger Article 50, and we will still have no idea what Brexit might mean. But two years later the UK will be out of the EU, whatever terms have been negotiated in the interim.
      In theory, we could end up exiting, on terms which are unacceptable to the 48% who voted Remain, and to most of the 52% who voted Leave.
      Isn’t democracy wonderful?

    66. Sunniva says:

      ‘You must show your hand but we’re not showing ours’. Hmmm…

      The trick Moothie is trying to pull here is that she is not really a Tory. What Teresa May does/doesn’t do has actually nothing to do with Moothie. Moothie is clean, one stage removed.

      Does this ruse wash? Only with the gullible, and I suspect, the meeja.

    67. garles says:

      Dr Jim says:
      Strokes chin) Can we do the Falklands again or does it have to be the fuzzy wuzzies, they tend to fight back.

      Did I read several days ago about using Overseas Development Fund being to fund oor troops to go to the Dark Continent?

      yea must be 7th Son of 7 Son

    68. Lenny Hartley says:

      Before it goes into history as a fact, there was a Plan B for currency and a Plan C!

    69. Scott Borthwick says:

      I also note that Ruth has gathered together one of Scotland’s finest collections of bawbags to lead a Scottish Conservative Brexit taskforce.

      I’ll make things easy for them. All good stuff coming from Brexit will be due to the Conservatives. All bad stuff will be the fault of the SNP. I think that about covers it, Ruthie.

    70. Capella says:

      Ruth Davidson has been groomed as Scottish Tory leader for a long time. Here’s a video called “Dispatches – inside Britain’s Israel Lobby”, a Channel 4 investigation by Peter Oborne of the enormous influence of the Israeli lobby on British politics.

      It includes footage of David Cameron addressing the Conservative Friends of Israel. A wee clip shows David Cameron, Annabel Goldie (then Scottish Conservative leader) and Ruth Davidson emerging from a Conference together. It must have been shot pre- 2009 General Election. At 16 mins 50 secs in.

      Maybe Adam Tomkins, Jerusalem Professor of National Security, was also present.

      We, in Scotland, are trained to accept another country making our political decisions for us, regardless of how we vote. But, at least in the case of Westminster, more of us are aware of it.

    71. geeo says:

      Bill board idea.

      WM Tory Welfare policy.

      Cuts to disability benefits.(£30/week)
      Cuts to all other benefits (universal credit)
      Continued sanctions against the poorest.

      Ruth Davidson policy.

      Cuts to disability benefits.(£30/week)
      Cuts to all other benefits (universal credit)
      Continued sanctions against the poorest.

      Despite what the media want you to think, Ruth Davidson IS STILL A TORY.

      Remember thar simple fact the next time she tells you what is best for Scotland.

      Vote SNP
      Vote YES.

    72. Sunniva says:

      I am glad the Rev is focusing on Moothie. She is far worse than Kez in her sense of entitlement and superiority, and her disdain for Scotland. Not to mention her poisonous attempts to subvert democracy in Scotland by supporting the insupportable, our being dragged out of the EU against our will and national interest.

    73. heedtracker says:

      Rhetorical question time, but has Bernard said anything at all about Teresa Thatcher’s brilliant and clever and very sexy refusal to show her Brexit hand?

      I’d go and look but at a guess, I’d say the UKOK ligger”s said nothing at all about the oncoming catastrofuck heading our way because that’s not what UKOK liggers are about.

    74. galamcennalath says:

      Grey Dug says:

      “exiting, on terms which are unacceptable to the 48% who voted Remain, and to most of the 52% who voted Leave.”

      During the campaign the Leave sales pitch was one of hard Brexit … well all the bits which would appeal and none of the disadvantages. There was to be minimal movement of people. Many millions who voted Leave did so for that very reason.

      The UK or rUK, depending on how things work out here, might have hard Brexit but there are a lot of indications it might be soft-ish.

      So, as you say, few will be happy. The UK/ rUK might end up with movement, trade, and financial contributions much as it is, but no representation in Brussels.

      The Remains will say, what was the point of that?

      The Leaves will say, this isn’t the Brexit we voted for!

      Biggest political fck up for a very long time! No wonder Cameron is packing it in and leaving the scene of the crime.

    75. Capella says:

      On the subject of other countries making our decisions for us – I heard recently, from someone who provides transport for the big oil companies, that they and their staff have transferred operations to the Falklands. It’s a long trip with a stop over at Ascension Island but the oil is easier to extract with lower costs.

      The Falklands is a British overseas territory so the licences for exploitation of the oil must come from Westminster.

      Nice that they are named after Anthony Carey, 5th Viscount of Falkland.
      “As a Scottish peer he was entitled to be a Member of the Parliament of England. He thus served as Tory MP for Oxfordshire from 1685–89, Great Marlow from 1689 to 1690, and Great Bedwyn from 1690 until his death.”

    76. Auld Rock says:

      Hi John H, you forgot to add the OO to MSM and EBC.

      Auld Rock

    77. yesindyref2 says:

      Ruth Davidson is clearly talking to the hand.

    78. galamcennalath says:

      Sunniva says:

      “I am glad the Rev is focusing on Moothie”

      Agreed. Labour are down, if not quite out. They have pushed their own self destruct button.

      Ruth “I’m not really Tory, when it suits” Davidson is the main threat now.

      She now represents the Unionist cause. IndyRef1 and Labour were at the centre of BT with the Tories pull strings. IndyRef2 and the Tories, led by Ruthie, will be at the centre of the campaign as the main representative of Unionism.

      And that is no bad thing! We want the choice to be between self governing Scotland and rule by Tories we gave no mandate to. That was actually the choice last time, but Labour led many to believe they were still potentially a party of WM government.

    79. Breastplate says:

      Dr Jim,
      You’re right about the Nawbags. None so blind as those who will not see.
      Every No voter is a hypocrite, that’s why they shirk logical and reasonable debate.

      They do not want to be confronted with their very own hypocrisy so they deflect and regurgitate garbage that will make them feel better rather than answer a straightforward question truthfully.
      Cognitive dissonance is very much in fashion when it comes to the Nawbags.

      Ask a Yoon, should Poland should be an independent country and nobody will ask how much oil they have before answering.
      Ask a Yoon, should Sweden be an independent country and none of them will ask what their plan is for a currency before answering.
      Ask a Yoon, should Latvia be an independent country and not a one will ask about imports and exports before answering.
      Ask a Yoon, should New Zealand be an independent country and not one fucker will ask about their deficit before answering.

      Should Scotland be an independent country?
      Someone on Wings (sorry, I’ve forgotten who) said there should be 2 answers to that question, Yes and Aye.
      They’re right 🙂

    80. Cadogan Enright says:

      Off topic BUT
      BBC’s coverage of Turkey in Syria continues to astound.

      ISIS’s main supply centre via Turkey was under threat from occupation by Kurds

      So Turkey occupied it without a shot from ISIS and the BBC ran several days of Turkish press releases in which the Turks were apparently saving Arab women from mass rape by the Kurds – is the BBC aware that the Kurdish are renound for their treatment of minorities and women and that the assault over the Euphaties was led by the female battalions of the YPG

      Now Turks announce they have captured 800 square kilometres from ISIS including 556 ISIS strong points, again without firing a shot (except at the Kurds where they continue to bombard civilian areas in Afrin and on both sides of the Euphrates)

      The obvious conclusion here is that Turkey are basically moving ISIS’s resupply depot from Jarbulus to Al Bab (unless the Kurds get there first)

      However the BBC seems unwilling to report that the Turks have intervened directly in Syria to assist ISIS by keeping their supply routes in Turkey from being cut off by the Kurds

      The BBC does not seem to like the Kurds despite them being the closest thing to a democratic society based on equality between sexes, religions and nationalities and apposed to the centralised nasty nationalism of Turks and Arabs.

      I wonder why?

    81. Andy-B says:

      Davidson, clearly doesn’t feel that clarity applies to her, an? certainly not to her boss Thersea May.

      There was a rumour that “Tank girl” Davidson, was in the running for David Cameron’s old constituency, Witney Oxfordshire. However her press office has quashed any such notions. But we’d do well to remember her jaunt from Glasgow to Edinburgh, to save her skin.

    82. Vambomarbeleye says:

      We can all think of many names to call ms Davidson. Some funny, some nasty, some sexist, etc. I think all these names regardless of type. Give her far too much importance. Stick to her name and no more.

    83. Bob Mack says:

      That would probably explain the development of the new Tankers which upload offshore. They would be perfect for the Falklands. Wonder how long it will take to suck that dry as well?

    84. McDuff says:

      Lenny Hartley

      Don`t` agree. The Scotsman is a rabid Unionist paper with an almost exclusively Unionist readership so it is much more likely to be hijacked by Unionists and not independence supporters.

    85. heedtracker says:

      Rhetorical question time, but has Bernard said anything at all about Teresa Thatcher

      Bernard doesn’t seem to do twitter but he may be channelling toryboy style via scotlandtonight

      ScotlandTonight ?@ScotlandTonight 15h15 hours ago
      “I am – you can tell – pretty cross with Cameron” says Michael White. More coming up on #scotnight Join us live here

      ScotlandTonight ?@ScotlandTonight 15h15 hours ago
      Michael White on Theresa May as PM: “She’s at least a grown up, not some of those oddballs that wanted the job” #scotnight

      Missed that one but if thats same toryboy Mike White of The Graun, silly soup strainer, likes to patronise women live on telly, why is he on just about the only Scottish politics and current show?

      Rancid the Graun have either a total black out Scotland from their massive news coverage, or send up liggers like Libby Carrell to smear and lie for teamGB, in Scotland.

      So Mike White either knows f all about Scotland current affairs and politics because he wont report any of it, or he’s on his hols and like all great UKOK liggers, there’s some extra toryboy cash in their hipper.

      To be fair to rancid The Graun, they do like Edinburgh, Scotland’s scenery and wildlife, but everything else is black out except, wait for it… SNP bad, Sturgeon accused, OO are bloody nice chaps.

      It may ofcourse be that Scotland is the only country in the world where nothing happens, everything newsworthy ends at Hadrians wall, it really is a shithole and SNP are in fact, bad.

    86. Capella says:

      The Dispatches video linked to above at 1.31 pm is dated 2009 so the Conference attended by David Cameron, Annabel Goldie and Ruth Davidson must have been held in or before 2009.

      That was a busy year for Miss Davidson. She left her job in the BBC to go to Glasgow University ( I wonder if the bumped into Prof Tomkins there?). At the same time, she joined the Tory Party, and was the party’s candidate in the Glasgow North East constituency at a 2009 by-election and at the 2010 general election, finishing in respectively 3rd and 4th place, with approximately 5% of the vote.

      She had better luck in 2011 getting into Holyrood on the regional list (she was 4th again on the constituency vote in Glasgow Kelvin).

      And, hey presto, Annabel Goldie resigns in May 2011 and Ruth becomes Scottish Party leader in November 2011. From zero to hero in 7 months – if you ignore the grooming period from 2009.

    87. Liz g says:

      Right ok….May isnay telling everybody her Brexit plan.
      But is she tellin anybody?
      The question being is she tellin Ruthie.
      We hiv the bit aboot Ruthie canny say but has she been asked yet if she actually knows,or is she being left out of the plan’s she is defending.

    88. heedtracker says:

      Right on Q, rancid the Graun’s weekly Scotland is shite dispatcherisning.

    89. Andy-B says:

      Tank Girl, Davidson’s chutzpah knows no boundaries, her party still hasn’t apologised for its insidious slight, against Christian Allard.

      Davidson, and her party look like they’ll brazen it out, instead of doing the honourable. But then again, it’s not really in a Tory’s nature to do the , honoursble thing.

    90. Another Union Dividend says:

      Fraser of Allander Institute report has found that even before the uncertainty caused by Brexit, the Scottish government’s budget was forecast to fall by just over 3% in real terms by 2020/21 as a result of the UK government’s ongoing fiscal consolidation.

      The forecasters said the Scottish budget had faced “unprecedented cuts since 2010, with the resource budget for this year 5% lower in real terms than 2010/11 as a result of cuts to Scotland’s block grant from Westminster.

      And they said a £1.6bn cut over the next four years would represent more than the Scottish government’s entire Finance and Economy; Fair Work, Skills and Training; Culture and External Affairs; and Rural Affairs, Food and Environment portfolios combined.

      And still Labour blames SNP for Tory cuts.

      Another Union Dividend

    91. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Breastplate @ 14:01:

      Every No voter is a hypocrite, that’s why they shirk logical and reasonable debate.

      You had better hope that’s not true, otherwise whenever indyref2 does come along, we’re going to lose it again!

      There are always going to be irredentists who will refuse to change even faced with the most irrefutable of facts. But like it or not, there are plenty of soft “no” voters out there who thought they were taking the safer option but who may now be beginning to realise that they made a serious misjudgement. These people are persuadeable with facts, and we need them to be.

      Don’t demonise, persuade.

      Which of course begs the question, how do we get the facts to them in the face of an incompetent one-sided media that can allow Tory hypocrites like Buffalo Gal to blithely change their tune yet remain so unchallenged?

    92. Betty Boop says:

      @ Macart, 10:52am

      Their necks must be on permaswivel by this point surely?

      Aye, it’s way past revolving 360 degrees.

    93. Jack Murphy says:

      Ruth Davidson Tory leader in Scotland on the telly last night defending the indefensible——-Scotland being dragged out of the European Union courtesy of the Tory Party.

      My mum and dad sat in disbelief at Tory Davidson spinning a positive angle on Scotland being dragged out!

    94. Vambomarbeleye says:

      The new underwater turbines are really good new for Scotland. Now we have to work out how they can bennifit Scotland. With out England or the energy company’s ripping us off.

    95. alasdair galloway says:

      My only question would be Stuart, is when did the rules change? Has it not always been thus? Has there ever been a time when we were not expected to know our place?

    96. Greannach says:

      If you were Theresa May, would you bother telling Ruth Davidson anything? I mean, in the Upstairs Downstairs world of the Tories, Mr Bellamy would hardly confide in Hudson the butler.

    97. Another Union Dividend says:

      TNS POLL 13 September 2016

      Should Scotland be an independent country?
      YES 47% NO 53%

      That’s a 2% increase in support for independence even before Brexit takes place.

      Under 65s: Yes 54% No 46%

      Over 65s: Yes 20% No 80%

      How do we get those core Express, Mail, Scotsman and Telegraph readers to see sense when Labour goes round doors telling them that they won’t get their State pension.

    98. Breastplate says:

      Robert, if you can manage to pin a Yoon down, I’m guessing with the help of a giant butterfly net, have a go.
      They are not immune to reason, they are not all lost.
      The cure for hypocrisy is YES.
      Fill your boots but what I’ve said still stands.
      Every No voter is a hypocrite.
      But as I’ve pointed out, they can change that.

    99. Andy-B says:

      Tank Girl sets up group to thwart a second indyref, as she does a massive U-turn, over Brexit.

      Janus-faced Davidson, said the Scottish government, “had got it wrong” in it’s response to Brexit.

    100. Gfaetheblock says:

      Surely the SNP position was the complete opposite of Tory position on both of these two points, so any insults aimed at Davidson re consistency would also be fair to be aimed at Sturgeon? Or is SNP lack of consistency OK as it is pro independence?

      Personality, I think plan b and Brexit position should be shared.

    101. galamcennalath says:

      Another Union Dividend says:

      “YES 47% NO 53%”

      There are graphs on Twitter showing how poor the turn out among the young is.

      We could possibly get over the 50% by simply getting those of a YES persuasion to actually go out and vote for it!

      This is something naesayers can’t do. They have already got their potential voters out!

      I am also convinced there is an easy way to make inroads into the NO voting pensioner group – bribe them!

      We should go into IndyRef2 with a promise that iScotland will match the best state pensions in Europe within say five years, rather than lagging way behind as at present.

      If we rearranged our oil taxation to approach Norway’s, the money would be found easily.

    102. Lenny Hartley says:

      Gfaetheblock, Don’t know where your coming from, the Fiscal Commisioned recommended four options that’s a,b,c and d for Tories and the Scottish Government accepted the.mJust because the Yoon Media said there was no option B does not mean there wasn’t one.

    103. Lenny Hartley says:

      Mc Duff every online poll gets hijacked by Evil Cyber Nats, the yoons don’t have anybody who cares under 65. I know I was that Evil Cyber Nat 🙂

    104. One_Scot says:

      Maybe I’m being a tad cynical, but I doubt very much you will ever see a Yoon poll being released above 50% for Yes, and I do mean ever.

      I mean why would they.

    105. Proud Cybernat says:

      Question is, will anyone be able to tell us what it means…

    106. Valerie says:


      Yes, completely agree on that. Can’t waste too much time trying to change the hard wired oldsters that bang on about pensions. An offer can be made.

      We really have the young, the group which is still growing – they simply have to vote. It’s a travesty they don’t see their vote as important. Probably all sorts of reasons for it, but we have to change that view.

      Popcorn time watching David Davis waffle like crazy in.front of Foreign Affairs committee on Brexit.

      37 mins in, lots of chat, no substance. Taking back control.

    107. Iona says:

      That’s what truly wears me down about Ruth Davidson…her complete lack of integrity.
      Scotland needs a strong opposition to keep the SNP honest. All effective Governments need this, but how can she possibly be a credible watchdog when she is incapable of being ethical and fair minded.

    108. With permission, I C&P my earlier post on WGD.
      “I note that Oxfam has released research by Credit Suisse today.
      The richest 1% in the UK own more than 20 times the total wealth of the poorest 20%,making the UK one of the most unequal countries (sic) in the developed world.
      634,000 of the ‘haves’ are worth 20 times the poorest 13 million.
      Quote: -” Three decades of high level inequality has had a profound impact.@ And then some.
      Oxfam argues that’ distrust and disconnection with political processes and voting for change( they refer to Brexit) in the hope that it would improve their position.’ explains the Leave victory.
      10% of the UK population own 54% of its wealth.
      The top 1% own nearly a quarter, 23%, while the poorest20% own just 0.8%.
      Decades of Red Blue and Yellow Tories bleeding us dry.
      How many of the fecking Useless former MP’s have gone on to even more lucrative jobs for the boys sinecures, pay offs, and HoL Retirement packages?
      How many have holiday homes in Donegal, the Western Isles, France, Spain or Portugal. As I observed before, like bookmakers, you never see a poor ex Red Blue or Yellow Tory politician, do you?
      How many are now mysteriously appointed ‘visiting professors’ mooching in the cloisters of our Universities and colleges? How many are working for the Man in Finance, private health care, the nuclear and/or Armaments Industries?
      How many Scots born are chancellors of our Universities? (None)
      We have witnessed the destruction of Scotland’s manufacturing industries, and savage cuts to our civic society.
      Dugdale, Davidson, and Rennie bleat on about closing the attainment gap in schools, and gesticulate spasmodically at the despatch box about NHS waiting times, and the BAD SNP not building enough houses, while the Tamanny Halls in Glasgow City Council, Lanarkshire, and North Lanarkshire Labour gravy trainers squander tens of millions of our Council Taxes on ALEO failures, pseudo New Labour Red Tory schemes, and cosy wee land deals with prominent ‘donors’.
      From whom are they buying the land to build their new Detention centre at Glasgow airport?
      May’s State of the Union address on the steps of No 10, was cynical sophistry, disgustingly patronising tosh from one of the SE Holy London Empire star performers, whose husband ‘s got a good job in the City.
      From memory she spouted; greater representation of workers on Boards. Make work pay, by introducing National Living Wage, and cutting Tax Credits accordingly. I see M&S, who advertise in the Express BTW, are cutting workers’ hours accordingly.
      Work is the best way out of poverty, and ‘real progress’ has been made since 2010; “2.7 million more people have a job” bleats a faceless spokesperson.
      500, 000 Scots are living below the poverty line, Wullie, Ruth, Kezia. The West of Scotland records 5000 more deaths per year than Newcastle or Liverpool because of the systematic and brutal destruction of Scotland’s economy, public services, and civic society by Westminster and obliging New Labour conservative Councils supporting Thatcherism and Blairism, and Broonism of course..
      The Tories boast that they have overhauled the Welfare system, so that it pays to work rather than claim benefits.
      Which is Newspeak for, we have cut Welfare Spending by £12 billion, cut spending on government services by £13 billion, and sacked 500,000 public servants, and given the top 1-10% who own all the wealth, a 5% tax cut. Remember Danny Alexander getting into his brand new Ministerial Limo clutching a list of cuts, including sacking 500,000 public servants? Is he still in Hong Kong working for the Man?
      The poor are to subsist in Victorian poverty, or take the low paid, low skilled, zero hours contracts, with no employment rights, no Union rights, farcical jobs on offer.
      We are Better Together? Aye right.”
      Ruth, Kezia, and Wullie are unprincipled chancers.
      We shall tolerate their anti Scottish lies and threats no more.
      There is no plan B.
      England is fecked.

    109. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @15:21

      Do these Twitter figures relate to the UK as a whole, or to Scotland in particular, and also to elections in general or what? My impression – possibly mistaken – was than in indyref1 the young were as committed as anyone. Am I wrong in that? The turnout “failures” that I recall were those people (of all ages?) even (or especially?) in “yes”-voting places like Glasgow who had been persuaded to register to vote, possibly for the first time since the Poll Tax, but didn’t in the end follow through.

      Turnout though is indeed the crux of the matter, for everyone.

      Breastplate @ 15:15,

      If by “Yoon” you mean those diehards in the media who promote the Union, they are indeed impossible “to pin down”. A fruitless task even trying, I suppose. But in a funny way it’s good to have them, because they are becoming increasingly strident and obnoxious as they feel public opinion shifting away from them, which just hastens the process even more…

    110. Breeks says:

      Due respect to folks who study the details, but it strikes me the older you get, the more you’ve seen, and the more cynical you get about political campaigns. If you want the young to be motivated and turning out in good numbers, you need a positive campaign that gives them a buzz to be involved with. The old vote isn’t blinkered, it’s just more suspicious and unsettled by change.

      I’m a big Europhile, but even on a bad day, Europe has opportunities for our kids to travel, see the world and other cultures, and frankly, I don’t think they want anything to do with a carmugeonly country like an insular UK which grumps from A to B sticking two fingers up to anything it doesn’t like. If we bomb out of Europe, yes our industry and commerce will suffer, but the world will really shrink for our young folks.

      All the right components are there to construct a very powerful body of opinion amongst younger voters, but what worries me is the short amount of time we may have to get sufficient momentum going. I’m sure it will happen. We will find more Saffron Dixons, but the campaign for the young vote will have to be gotten right.

      I have a pet theory that’s why a positive campaign is reputably more successfully than a negative campaign. If you get it right, people can engage and feel good about doing so. It’s even fun. If we allow Unionism to fill the heads of our kids with bleak, narrow minded prejudices about Europe, it will be a lasting tragedy for all of us, and our failure if we let it happen.

      It isn’t just politics evolving through social media. Our kids are too. Our kids think nothing about playing games online with folks from all over the world at all times of the day. Even when language fails them, emojis help them to communicate. They find ways around problems and built on the bits they do understand. When I think back to when I was at school, it was great speaking French in class, but outside of school you felt bashful and constrained. If only I could have that time again. I would learn every language I could find the time to consume, and get my arse over to visit those countries too and put those languages to good use. It’s a good thing to embrace and indulge new cultures, and I despair for all those English kids who are now doomed to wonder if there is any point learning French or German for the next decade. Where is the up side to any of that?

      There was a sense we were just getting somewhere, and Brexit is threatening to piss all over it. And for what???

      I want Scotland to be a comfortable multi cultural, multi lingual, happy and progressive society which wants to engage constructively with rest of the world. Where is the down side to any of that?

      Independence in Europe is choosing the challenges of life over the drudgery of mere existence. And in the blue corner we have Ruth Davidson.

    111. Capella says:

      It wasn’t exactly plain sailing though. First she headed up Annabel Goldie’s office for a year after joining the Tories and hobnobbing with Bella and Dave at that year’s party conference. Lucky Ruth.

      Then she had to get into Holyrood and that meant sacrificing a rival with the help of the Telegraph “Scottish Tories in turmoil after top candidate sacked.”

      Wiki spells out the breathless rise to dizzy heights:

      “For the 2011 Scottish parliament election, Davidson was selected in September 2010 to contest the Glasgow Kelvin constituency and was initially placed only second on the Conservatives’ Glasgow region list, behind Malcolm Macaskill, a Glasgow businessman and party member for over 30 years.

      This would have made it very unlikely that Davidson would have been able to be elected to the Scottish Parliament, as the Glasgow regional list typically returns only 1 Conservative member.

      However, with only a couple of months to go, newspaper stories appeared in March 2011 that questioned Macaskill’s past business history. It was revealed that Macaskill failed to fully disclose his business career on his CV to party members ahead of a 2010 internal party selection contest. The Party chairman Andrew Fulton then decided that Macaskill was to be deselected, thereby promoting Davidson to the first position in the Glasgow regional list.

      Subsequently Davidson, although coming a distant fourth in Glasgow Kelvin, was elected to the Scottish Parliament on the Glasgow region list. After the election, she was appointed by Goldie as the Conservative spokesperson for Culture, Europe and External Relations.”

    112. Proud Cybernat says:

      BBC Bad, bad Scot…

    113. heedtracker says:

      Neo fascist Voice o the North Press and Journal’s worth a look today, for collectors of toryboy swivel eyed loony displays, as they go absolutely berserk “YOU face a £47 m council tax hike” shrieking front page and “North-east to bleed £47m in tax-hike regime” And there’s a cheeky Wilie Rennie saying he’s not impressed.

      Usual local hard core tory britnat stuff , local and national, worship royals stuff now but I cant mind a pre ref 1 time, when UKOK hackdom was this hysterically right wing.

      But it should be interesting to see if the sneaky shits have same tax bleed story in their Glasgow edition, as they rage away at the SNP’s “stealth tax” in Aberdeen to fund services in Glasgow. Lovely bunch.

    114. Dr Jim says:

      Dogs and dolphins have big brains and can learn to do fantastic things and yet they have no thumbs

      Yoons have thumbs

    115. Brian Powell says:

      Another Union Dividend

      What we need is to get the younger Yes voters out to vote, they didn’t vote in such large numbers at the last election.

    116. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Dogs and dolphins have big brains and can learn to do fantastic things…”

      Unlike the Yoon colonial media, dogs and dolphins cannot lie.

    117. One_Scot says:

      All joking aside, someone should take that shovel off of McZoomer before she has someone’s eye out.

    118. Camz says:

      Two faced cow.

    119. Sunniva says:

      @Brian Powell. Spot on! The youth vote is far more important. And we need to get the youth to work on their grannies. It’s their future after all, not granny’s.

    120. The Flamester says:

      With the talk of Polls – Received a call from Ipsos MORI at the weekend asking about Scotland. They wanted to talk to people within the 16 – 24 age group, so put on my son!

      Asked how he voted in Independence Ref, GE, EU Ref and how he would vote if there was another Indy Ref. He voted Yes, Remain and would vote Yes again. He was then asked a host of other questions about charities etc. Obviously looking for the younger generation voting intentions.

    121. bugsbunny says:

      I’ve just read a very interesting article about Andrew Marr. Apparently, he along with Stephen Daldrey (of Billy Elliot fame) and JK Rowling were on a training course in Israel during the 80’s along with Stella Rimington who ended up heading MI5. That could explain their unholy attitudes towards Scotland?

    122. Fran says:

      @ heedtracker

      It was lying on the canteen table at work the day and I burst out laughin. The guy next to me said “how stupid do they think we are”!

    123. rory says:

      said with rhythm of a preacher. That particular style of public speaking always gave me the heebie jeebies

    124. Capella says:

      @ bugsbunny
      In the Alan Cochrane article on Tory Turmoil he mentions that the Party Chairman who stabbed the Tory list candidate in the back was an ex MI5 man.
      “Malcolm Macaskill, a Glasgow businessman and justice of the peace, was removed from the top slot on the Tories’ Glasgow list by Andrew Fulton, the party chairman.
      Mr Macaskill, who was virtually guaranteed a seat in the Holyrood elections on May 5, was kicked out by Mr Fulton, a former MI5 official.”

      What MI5 are doing heading up the Scottish tory party is a mystery.

    125. HandandShrimp says:

      I for one am delighted that Murdo can finally see that Scotland and Britain are not one and the same 🙂

      His distress at the Queen’s Eleven’s tanking on Saturday may have addled his brain though.

    126. robertknight says:

      Hey Woofy! I smell shyte!

      Maggie May can’t possibly say what Plan A, B, C…X, Y or Z is for Brexit is – because it doesn’t exist!!!

      See ya Maggie – be sure not to let the EU door marked “Sortie” smack your derrière on the way out!

    127. Luigi says:

      Sunniva says:

      13 September, 2016 at 6:08 pm

      @Brian Powell. Spot on! The youth vote is far more important. And we need to get the youth to work on their grannies. It’s their future after all, not granny’s

      And their grannies turn out in huge numbers at every election. 🙁

    128. Gary45% says:

      Brexit means F all, Yoons still spinning at their failed attempt to blinker the nation with a vote they NEVER thought would go against them.
      Maggie May will tow the Empire line, as she has no say in the future of the UK.(the classic fall guy) Ruthie Jong Un?!?! about as much use as a soggy fag end.
      What I think should happen is the numpties who put us in this situation should be jailed for fraud, they have opened up a huge racist can of worms, and simply Fu*ked Off, to leave carnage behind them.

      Indy Ref 2 Aye

    129. Where our oil money has been going,

      The UK automotive industry generated revenues of £60 billion in 2013. 11 major vehicle manufacturers and 18 of the world’s top 20 suppliers to the automotive industry have operations in the UK.

      There are different locations across the UK known as Enterprise Zones that offer investors incentives to locate themselves there including:

      reduced taxes
      simpler planning rules
      financial benefits

      how many of the 11 major vehicle manufacturers are located in Scotland?

      they steal our oil revenues and use the money to give incentives to the manufacturers to locate to England/Wales,

      laundering stolen money. .

    130. heedtracker says:

      Fran says:
      13 September, 2016 at 6:33 pm
      @ heedtracker

      It was lying on the canteen table at work the day and I burst out laughin. The guy next to me said “how stupid do they think we are”!

      As nasty as it gets but lets face, its their daily toryboy stuff, and they will have a different story for Glasgow. Its what they do and its usually their tory ligger in chief Andrew Liddle who was and is the hardest hitting anti SNP campaigner. He seems to be channelling Andrew Neil.

      He did an awful P&J special thing on WoS, twitter, the Express and the WoS hate-mob that was apparently unleashed on the Express dlight of UKOKness but hate-ob in P&J land is a verb now.

      There is quite a skillfull slice of tory britnat propaganda bullshit over the ongoing UK demilitarisation of Scotland but just usual lashings of royals groveling, huge thing on cakes and the BBC, SNP bad, wildly tory britnat letters page, and all wound up with, P&J says you’re all being robbed by the SNP, just to pay scroungers in Glasgow so

      “What about our hard-pressed north and north east schools, you might ask.”

      Local toryboys for local people! As you tear off another sheet of P&J loo roll.

    131. CameronB Brodie says:

      Gender and sexuality are not just personal identities; they are also social identities. So do you think it appropriate to highlight intolerance to your otherness when your entire political identity is based on a One Nation denial of the different national identities of Scotland and England? Britain is not One Nation.

      So are you a ragging hypocrite, simply thick, or perhaps it is your demeanor to get a kick out of being a mouthpiece for our colonial masters in London? Dolt or gimp? Your choice.

    132. arthur thomson says:

      We have to get the message out there that Ruth Davidson isn’t just a clown, she is a front – For the Nasty Party.

    133. It amazes me how many people even on this sight pay any attention to the phoney polls it one gigantic scam it is only the answers of the people they ask not the answers of the whole country it is tool for the losers to try to convince the doubters that the opinion of A few matter more than the many they haven’t asked they never tell you how many they asked because that would expose their illusion I mean the whole thing is ridiculous they should be banned by law as fraud

    134. galamcennalath says:

      This ….

      …. has only happened because of the activities of the neo fascist ‘newspapers’.

    135. Chic McGregor says:

      Plan A, B, shmee. Let’s cut right to the final solution.

    136. mike cassidy says:

      Bugsbunny 6.33

      A link, please?

    137. mike cassidy says:

      Capella 6.45

      Davidson appears to have got her first break with an act of illegality –

      but the person she replaced was bought off after he threatened legal action.

      So her saliva-spraying rise is a mixture of MI5 and sleaze.

    138. galamcennalath says:

      Tory splits?

      “Anna Soubry…. said Vote Leave should “should hang their heads in shame”. ….“There were many people, particularly in less wealthy areas, who were convinced by Leave’s claim that if we left the EU we would be able to pour millions more into the NHS,” …. “The danger now is these people will become even more disillusioned with all politicians because this lot misled them.”

      …. I’m sure that’s not the official line.

    139. Tinto Chiel says:

      Ruth is a nasty little bully and I have nothing to say positively about her. She has no integrity and is willing to sacrifice her country and its assets for WM’s benefit. But she gets the full life support treatment from the BBC.

      She used to remind me of Chucky but after Macart and his permaswivel comment it now has to be Carrie.

      These are not good things.

    140. Kevin Evans says:

      I get the idea that the Anna soubry quote above can be USED to better show the farce of the Tory brexit but come on – it’s still an Anna soubry quote. Best not touch her with a barge pole.

    141. call me dave says:

      There is something truly awful watching a cat playing with a mouse before the final act of execution. So I broke away from the footie for a wee break! 🙁

      Found this:

      Clegg admits difficulty in fighting “compelling case” for independence for those Scots who voted to remain in EU

    142. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Most of us will have been pushing up daisies for years before it’s eventually revealed just how far The Establishment has infiltrated all political parties, MSM etc.

      As George Carlin said, ‘…the table is tilted folks, the game is rigged…and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care…’

      We know they’re there, hiding behind one another constantly, always just out of sight of the ‘average’ voter. FFS, we’re political ‘geeks’ and even we can’t be sure who they are, so what chance has the rest of the electorate?


    143. Vambomarbeley says:

      The futures yours. Not your granny’s. But you both have to vote yes for you to have a future.

    144. McDuff says:

      Blair Paterson
      We are perfectly aware that polls can be manipulated they may or not be reasonably accurate only another referendum would prove that. I personally was citing the Scotsman`s on line poll today that gave Yes 61% NO 35% which is odd given its a Unionist newspaper.

    145. Cherry says:

      There’s only 15 per cent of British trade goes to countries which are outside the European Union or with which we don’t have a European trade deal or in the process of having a European trade deal. So this idea that there is these Elysian Fields of unbridled 19th century trade waiting for us, where apparently everyone will give us exactly what we want even though we’ll be a fraction of the size of what we were when we were negotiating partners of the EU, it’s a nonsense.”

    146. Cherry says:

      Oops sorry posted without the link.
      It’s from @Call me Dave post on Nick Clegg.

      Gives us a good response for leaving UK trading block for the EU trading block.

    147. crazycat says:

      @ McDuff

      The Scotsman poll is presumably open to anyone to vote in, so not only is it not representative, the paper’s stance is irrelevant – until and unless the result suddenly and mysteriously changes when they notice. I’m sure that’s happened before. P&J, maybe.

    148. crazycat says:

      @ Cherry

      I see Clegg’s predicting a “National Government” – one with LibDems in, presumably.

      Some people never learn.

    149. Lenny Hartley says:

      Mc duff have already explained to you about your “odd” poll. There has not been a newspaper online poll for several years that has not shown a substantial lead for Yes, How many papers support Indy,?

    150. Rock says:

      Davidson is the most disgusting and dishonest politician in Scotland in my view.

      No wonder the BBC are so proud of her.

    151. Valerie says:

      Undeadshaun 6.09

      Good find, but it feels very spooky that was written in 2013!

      Just shows, as you expect with Japan having good business sense, this was talked about back then.

      There is a volume of reporting about Nissan just prior to 24 June, bringing the legal action against Leave, but nothing since that I can find.

      Nissan were well hacked off, having asked numerous times to be left out of the debate, as well as copyright misappropriation of their logo.

      Nissan wrote to all their employees saying their vote was for them, and not for the employer to advise.

      Just shows how much more integrity they had about the issue.

    152. Rock says:

      Another Union Dividend,

      “Over 65s: Yes 20% No 80%”

      As I have been saying for a long time, the hardcore British Nationalists proud of the British Empire will never vote Yes.

      It is a complete waste of time and resources trying to convince them.

      Same with the vast majority of the middle class and English settlers.

      Unless the next referendum restricts the vote to, for example, residents who have at least one grandparent born in Scotland, we are not going to be independent any time soon.

    153. galamcennalath says:

      call me dave says:

      “Clegg admits difficulty in fighting “compelling case” for independence for those Scots who voted to remain in EU”

      It is good to hear a WM politician accept Scotland’s position where being dragged out by England is not on.

      I did take offence at this. Clegg says … “I’m a Unionist. I don’t like Nationalism. Nationalism/chauvinism is a profoundly illiberal creed”

      What is wrong with these people that they can’t understand that Unionism is British Nationalism?

      I get really annoyed at this high and mighty idea that UKOK doesn’t no nationalism, that’s what lesser peoples have.

      That Marr program on Sunday reeked of the same. Scots are the nationalists while those fanatically supporting the UK do so for higher more noble reasons devoid of anything nationalistic. Aye right!

    154. galamcennalath says:

      Cherry says:

      “… these Elysian Fields of unbridled 19th century trade waiting for us … it’s a nonsense.”

      Exactly. And what will rUK be trading?

      Oil? That left with iScotland. Cars? That relocated to the EU. Financial services? That left too.

      Arms? Oh yes, making money out of death and misery. Right up the Brexiteers’ street.

    155. Valerie says:

      So pig fker resigns today, and tomorrow’s papers are carrying story that Cameron is to blame for Libya mess, and rise of Da’esh.

      Cameron really is leaving some toxic waste behind. What a legacy. Remember this Tory gov’t has also led on bombing Syria, directly responsible for thousands dead, and approximately 5 million refugees on the move.

      Thousands of parent less children lost in the sea, stolen by sex offenders or dead on the move.

      But this country couldn’t give a shit about those children.

      Syria will be the the worst humanitarian disaster since the last war, when it’s written up.

    156. heedtracker says:

      Vote NO Barrosso’s also got his own rules. 2014 he’s all over the BBC explaining, vote NO or you’re out of Europe and you’re not getting in Scotland, to

      Former European President Jose Manuel Barroso has issued a blistering attack on EU leaders and institutions over their attempts to frustrate his plans to take up a new role with Goldman Sachs.”

      Its positively Lord Flipper’s scale of bullshit.

    157. Tam Jardine says:

      Some folk are frustrated by the polls not showing a bigger lift. I was frustrated at the Edinburgh in Europe event on Bruntsfield Links on Sunday – guid folk in attendance but there should have been 10 times the numbers at least.

      The fact is nothing has kicked in. It feels for many like the storm has passed and Westminster will sort something out. Most folk in their own wee bubble are not thinking they’ll have to pay for an ESTA to travel to France on holiday. They are not thinking anything will happen to their employment rights. They are not worried about the consequences to agriculture, fishing, the food and drink industries of leaving the world’s largest market and its system of subsidies.

      How can you get worried about brexit when nothing is happening and you buy your messages at Waitrose?

      If you are in a decent job you probably reckon whatever happens you’ll be OK because right through life Westminster has ensured that you have been. Shit that happens- it happens to someone else.

      Money solves most things in life… sadly for the middle and upper middle classes this isn’t one of them.

      There is a concerted effort going on to pretend all is well- from Theresa May saying we are going to make a success of Brexit all the way down to subterranean Call Kaye asking how confident folk are about Brexit- quite confident or very confident? GBBO’s on the telly and we’re storming the Paralympics. All that is missing is some royal shenanigans to really do a Paul McKenna number on the public.

      Cameron knows though- clever boy that he is. The Westminster duopoly that has remained largely in tact for a hundred years is fractured- the two great houses are both looking ready to schism simultaneously at the UK’s weakest point since the dark days of WW2.

      Labour are finished and must split to have a chance of one branch surviving. The tories are stronger but the internal divisions simmering below the surface are ready to erupt.

      The EU, in appointing Mr Verhofstadt have signalled they are going to look after their interests with a vengeance and that means making it clear that leaving the EU is a very bad decision.

      All around the world leaders are venting frustration, disbelief, anger and bemusement at this decision with some already signalling that they will be cashing out.

      The SNP which is without doubt the most purposeful, unified and resilient force in UK politics happens to be led by the most able, gritty, astute and popular politician Scotland has ever produced. In Scotland Nicola has the greens on board and the tories are to blame for the fuck-up so they can be blamed from here until eternity. Willie’s sad group of Europhiles who are ready to leave the EU, the Home Rule enthusiasts who opposed Home Rule are a laughing stock, irrelevant.

      And poor Kezia is getting geared up to write that novel she’s always planned on. There is no future after Corbyn gets back in and a slab politician who gets so many big calls wrong (Trident, Corbyn, Independence etc etc) has to eventually pass the shitty stick onto someone else less able.

      In Scotland Nicola has said we are staying IN and she looks like she means it.

      Amidst all the forces pulling in directions we have a new PM who has to try and implement a plan she doesn’t believe in and somehow achieve the impossible. To succeed she has to get the EU to agree to something it won’t or the English public to buy into something they voted against. She has to persuade or force Scotland, Northern Ireland, Gibraltar (and London) out the EU against their will whilst keeping all hitched to the same old wagon. And somehow bind the pro and anti EU tory factions together. And avoid financial meltdown during a time of enormous flux.

      No wonder Cameron’s offski. Give the soft No’s a break- let them enjoy their hummous and hot smoked salmon while the illusion of stability is maintained. It does seem cruel to waken someone up from a pleasant dream.

    158. Valerie says:

      Consular Councillor for French Nationals writes to Davidson. It was made public via a French group.

    159. Norman R says:

      Assuming Yes is 47%, this is`nt a bad level of support, considering the effects of brexit are still to be felt. I believe the curve is upwards. As for Davidson, as head of Tory branch office, she wont be able to distance herself from the policies of Tory head office indefinitely. On a more personal note, her lack of principles is match only by her lack of charisma.

    160. Ken500 says:

      The Unionists Politicians are criminals pure and simple. From start to finish. Most of them should be in jail. Cameron was one the worst politicians in history. Dangerous liars. Davidson is corruptly trying to cover up for them. Desperation. .

      The EU politicians want Barroso’s EU pension cut. Barroso accomodated discussion to facilitate the Iraq War, between Blair and Bush. They all should be in jail. Brown tried to be appointed President of the EU. Cameron blocked it. Blair had an official EU role. Cameron was bombing Syria, using Scottish bases. Now Cameron is off on the gravy train curcuit after destroying the world economy. Westminster Unionists are sanctioning and starving the vulnerable. Despicable.

    161. Hamish100 says:


      what if you are Polish and wishes Scotland to be independent- no vote? No, 5 year minimum residency in Scotland for all. That takes out most of the English Welsh and NI students who got together last time at St Andrews, Edinburgh etc to vote against independence last time.

      Attract the young voter who understands the concept of the EU better than a 1000 express readers put together in a hoard.

      tougher rules over folk in care homes. Apparently Tories from a local church went round getting postal votes. Those who didn’t vote last time get them out. Need to remember still early dyas . There are hints the brexiters are wanting to push May faster than she wants too. Tensions are there. Labour will implode. Apart from the most unionist brit in the labour party more moderate home Scots will vote with Scotland in the EU.
      As I mentioned in another post SNP should be announcing that we are happy for the car jobs to be moved from England to Scotland, financial jobs also. Even Ryanair could move to Prestwick full time.

    162. ScotsRenewables says:

      Rock 10.08pm

      Unless the next referendum restricts the vote to, for example, residents who have at least one grandparent born in Scotland, we are not going to be independent any time soon.

      While according to YouGov only 26% of those who were born in England, Wales or Northern Ireland voted Yes, the division of the vote amongst those who were born outside the UK (many of whom would have been Irish, Commonwealth or EU citizens) was much less distinctive, with 41% saying they voted Yes.

      SO you are going to deny these non-English ‘new Scots’ a vote as well because of your Anglophobia, eh?

      I am an Englishman resident in Scotland for 49 years (but with no Scots grandparent, only a great grandparent)who is a lifelong SNP voter and who has campaigned for independence for the last five years. Your suggestion would confirm in the minds of the NO campaign that we are anti-English, and would alienate more people than it would save votes.

      I smell shite.

    163. punklin says:

      possibly o/t but here goes;

      Last night (Monday)I did something I hardly ever do these days: I watched the Reporting Scotland 10.30 pm bulletin. A major item was how, according to business editor Douglas Fraser, Scotland’s economic performance has been weaker than the rest of the UK’s. It was almost entirely based on subjective impressions. What hard figures there were came shoehorned into a largely negative piece.

      And then I realised – and I appreciate this is no surprise to many WOS readers – the unionist media will NEVER, not even with their dying breath, give the idea of an independent Scotland a chance. It is impossible. However favourable a situation might truly exist, it will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS be twisted into a ‘too poor’ story.

      And yet we are stuck with the BBC – we can rail and howl but it cannot, will not reform. And it pours into millions of homes and minds every day.

      I feel in my bones that we cannot win with this status quo. But I don’t see how it can really be changed (demos and witholding licence fees etc just don’t cut it, I’m afraid = gesture politics in that they may be well-intentioned but cannot change anything).

      God, it’s so depressing. What a conundrum.

    164. Petra says:

      @ Tam at 10:53pm …..

      Great post Tam. Clear summary of the current situation. Await part two with bated breath … ‘The repercussions that followed a pleasant dream turning into a hellish nightmare.’

    165. Ken500 says:

      Don’t worry about attendance at Rallies. Sometimes there is not enough publicity or people can’t always travel to every rally because of logistics. Millions more would like to be there.

      There is more support for Independence in Scotland than there is for a Referendum in Catalonia with vast Rallies. In Scotland it is 50/50 without Brexit being implemented. Or clause 50 being presented.

      Catalonia has rallies on public holidays with huge publicity. There are a lot of public holidays. A month at Easter and Christmas. Religious. Two months in summer. July/August. It is too hot to work.

      In Catalonia 2.2million voted for a Referendum. Out of an electorate of 5.5Million with a population of 7.5Million. In Catalonia/Spain EU citizens resident in Spain are not allowed to vote in National or Regional elections. Only in local and EU elections. (1million?). Not so democratic as Scotland.

    166. HandandShrimp says:


      Rock is our resident grump. He doesn’t get any cheerier than that.

    167. Robert Louis says:

      Tam Jardine at 1053

      I wouldn’t worry about the Bruntsfield event. Yeah the numbers were small, but YET AGAIN, there was no publicity. I only learned about it from a friend. Most people probably had no idea it was happening.

      Likewise for the event planned on Sunday in Glasgow, I know it is on, because I have seen people mention it in passing on the wings website, but I really have no idea who will be there, or who is organising it etc.. Could be the SNP – who knows???.

    168. ScottishPsyche says:

      I thought I was well informed until the Indyref. I thought I knew most of the arguments that would make me decide.

      The first shock I got was that Slab were going to join with the Tories to vote No. I could not understand that and as went looking for more information I became aware that I had always more or less believed what the media told us.

      As soon as you realise what a charade it all is you never watch or read anything the same way again.

      My elderly mother today talked of the heatwave ‘we’ were having, the state of the hospitals, the junior doctors strike and how grammar schools were coming back. I explained again that none of that applies to us in Scotland. She is not dementing but she accepts that the news tells her what is going on in the world.

      She watches the ‘regional’ programme but the real news is for her at 6pm and 10pm on the BBC. This is what we are up against before we even deal with the minutiae and detail of is actually said by BBC Scotland or written in the Scottish Press.

      However the younger generation are different. They go to check sources immediately. Someone says something they challenge it and ask where they got it. They mock their friends for believing something on FB. They know all this because they can manipulate the internet. They can use Photoshop and put out fake Twitter messages.

      That gives me hope but also makes me a bit sad. Trust in our media has really gone in this country.

    169. Ken500 says:

      Douglas Fraser can’t count or read a balance sheet. He just regurgitates Westminster fiddled, incomplete accounts. Incomplete unaccounted expenses. It is really annoying watching him lie for remuneration. He never gives an alternative picture if Scotland had full powers over it’s economy, as supported by the majority.

      If Scotland cut Trident, nearly £1Billion, a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. nearly £1Billion.. Paying loans on Westminster policy debts. Not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Nearly £4Billion. Tax evasion £3Billion? Oil revenues would be £4Billion+ without Westminster’s 60/80% tax when the price has fallen 75% (5 years) . Losing Thousands of jobs, it is now 40%, since Jan 2016. Total £13Billion.

      Scotland raises £54Billion with Oil 2014/15 and 2015/16 without Oil. Scotland raised £54Billion and spends £56Billion without the ‘deficit’ Westminster policies create in Scotland. Scotland can’t borrow, The rest of the UK borrows and spends 20% more, Scotland can’t borrow the same pro rata. Losing £13Billion.

      Fraser should google the facts not reguritate a Westminster handout. Without the SNP Gov there would be no (restricted) accounts for Scottland gov on a website. Westminster always claimed that separate were not available. A few clicks on a computer.

    170. Ken500 says:

      The elderly have a different life experience. Lower rate of education, hardship and wars etc. Many have less income and are fugal with their requirements. They have to watch their pensions. People in general, are conservative by nature as they get older. A recognised feature. Do not like change and could be stuck in their ways, They often are not connected to the Internet and do not access it.

      It is surprising those who experienced Thatcher hardship, did not vote YES, as could have been expected. Maybe next time. Smother them in kindness. A sweetie, a bunch of flowers or a treat. Leave the National about and any relative articles which they may read, if they are curious. A smile always helps. Some of the elderly don’t see anyone for days. Which is a shame.

    171. bugsbunny says:

      Mike Cassidy,

    172. ScottishPsyche says:

      It is so sad though that many of the elderly are living in better circumstances than their counterparts in E and W but they cannot allow themselves to attribute it to the Scottish Government. I am resigned but hopeful my Mum will get another chance to vote again. Persuasion is the route though for soft Nos.

      That clever David Halliday brought to my attention the ‘Theory of Generations’- where significant social events influence a generation in a binding and long lasting way. It changes the way they look at the world sometimes for ever. For my mother’s generation it would have been WW2 where everyone pulled together against a common enemy and the Union flag was symbolic of something different. That was probably more binding than anything since.

      Maybe the Independence movement and Brexit will have a similar effect on our generation? The younger groups show no sign as yet of changing their minds on Indy and it is a reality for them in a way it never was for me at that age group.

    173. Tam Jardine says:

      Ken500 & Robert Louis

      Indeed- what I was trying to say about the rally in my longwinded way was I got pissed off at first but realised most folk won’t get engaged and interested until the shit hits fan.

      It is frustrating the comms side of it. I think a lot of stuff is on facebook and I hate facebook so sometimes don’t hear about events. Remember the big pro EU demo at the parliament after the vote- passed me right by.

      The Yes side strength- its spontaneity, its grass roots energy doesn’t need hunners of different organisations all vying to be the foundation for the next campaign. We have Commonweal, All Under One Banner, Yes2, SNP, Greens, RIC, Solidarity and all the amazing local and national Yes groups. I suppose the National Yes Registry trying to form a contact between them all. I know Commonweal is trying to form its own social networking platform.

      I just don’t get how we can’t have one person who has a twitter account and a facebook page- people send him pro-indy events and only pro-indy events and he/she/they retweet them, repost them and everyone indy follows. And that is all it would take. No ego, no identity, no big agenda, no party … britnatabusebot style.

      Everyone wants to be at the vanguard forming discussion groups and coming up with new ideas and a new white paper and I get it. I dig that next weekend the convention in Glasgow Green will be great but good grief if it achieves one thing, let it be solving the comms issue so if someone plans a march or a BBC protest or a fucking indy BBQ in their local park 47% of the population gets a chance to attend. It is not complicated.

    174. Ken500 says:

      Rennie front page in the P&J. ‘£47Million will be taken out of NE to fund schools in need of finance in the south’. £10 a week/month? on higher rate council tax. £2 on next band. How despicable not to fund those in need. Rennie is a rogue trying to make capital out of changes, well affordable to fund education.

      The LibDems put up Uni fees £6000 in England. Preventing youngster with straight ‘A’s’, from average household incomes from going to University. Students in Scotland could not get a full loan because Labour/ Unionist were means testing student loans on household income. Preventing students from household of average earning going to University. Or they study and stay at home to save money.

      Aberdeen/shire has received £3/4Billion for the essential AWPR, after thirty years from the Scottish Gov. The Unionist/Green Party Councils squander and waste public money on grotesque projects which the majority do not want. £Millions/Billions. Unaccounted and non mandated. ACC has wasted £Milions on a concrete jungle in the city centre. Against the majority wishes. Protesters were out on the streets and just ignored. They refused a Gift of £80million to pedestrianise the City centre voted for by a majority, saying it was too expensive. Spending £30Million on an Art Gallery renovation. Another waste of money shut for three years. An intended funding of an unnecessary Conference Centre £300Million. The present one is used on average once a month. £Millions on a ‘white elephant’ road to nowhere.

      They say their is not enough for essential public services and do not place the appropriate funding on social care, education and road maintenance. The Scottish gov is going to fund schools direct to make sure they get their proper allocated funding package. Not cut by councils to fund wasteful, grotesque projects. No overnight accommodation for the homeless, or ‘total abstinence’ proper rehab counselling facilities for drink/drug abuse. Making the problems worse. They want to put people in prison. Inappropriate and more costly.

    175. Dr Jim says:

      Who should get to vote and who shouldn’t, easy, folk who voted NO last time shouldn’t be allowed, but what if they changed their mind, what if they’re young, what if eh

      There’s no way of getting round it so the frustration of some becomes apparent
      I’m Scottish,my dads lot were Scottish for over a hundred years, my Mum was English, her Dad Irish descent, but who knows beyond or before that

      I think what’s more worrying is the Brexit vote has had an effect on Scotland too regarding the bitterness towards immigrants and it seems that’s more prevalent in the older lot, but also other age groups as well, I experienced it myself only yesterday from a bigoted nasty woman who blamed all the ills that she had heard or read in the Daily Express real or imaginary on Nicola Sturgeon her love of foreign immigrant terrorists and the Euro that this woman wanted none of

      The funny thing about this woman is her name which I wont write but suffice it to say is a widely accepted Irish Catholic name which amazed me at the time this woman of around 50 years of age descended from immigrants herself wanted nothing to do with immigrants or anything foreign
      because she was British!! (bangs fist angrily with a bad face) she informed me at the referendum she voted YES but never again because Bile Hatred Vile Nasty Blah Blah I hate Nicola Sturgeon if she’d left well alone we wouldn’t be in this mess..on and on and on

      So it’s not just my age group the over 65s who will vote NO although I do believe there are more of them and I would happily accept exclusion if I thought it would work but alas I think not

      I don’t believe the FM can convince any more folk to change their vote but I do believe there are more YES voters out there who didn’t vote the last time and what with the Tories about to unleash hell on us all no matter where we came from Scotland will vote YES once the Tories start doing our work for us

      There were a heck of a lot of EU Nationals who were terrified into voting NO last time under threat of expulsion from the EU they wont fall for that one again
      Remember the leaflets to the Polish people from Gordon Brown and co

    176. Ken500 says:

      Goodness ‘Super Casino’

    177. call me dave says:

      David Davis firmly rules out Westminster vote on Brexit negotiations

      SNP ‘consider reinstating’ suspended MP Michelle Thomson

    178. manandboy says:

      At the moment we are getting nowhere very fast. The impact of Brexit remains minimal on the voting intentions of the Scottish electorate and IndyRef2. Whatever plan Nicola has for staying in the EU has not yet been revealed. Is it any wonder the Yes movement is a little nervous?

      Meanwhile, in England, Mrs May is being consistent with Tory tradition and Westminster history by making it clear that progress on Brexit will remain under her control. The sovereignty of Westminster, of which she is the head, and the customs of the British Empire, require her to adopt this position. She will not bend to the wishes either of the EU or of the 17 million plus brexiteers. The ruling class will rule, which means that Mrs May will keep everyone waiting for as long as it suits her purposes,

      This has several advantages for Westminster, the first being that the PM is able to allow the issue of Brexit to settle and for the population to calm down after the uproar of June23.
      The second is that doing nothing enables Mrs May to keep the upper hand with Scotland – which remains her priority. Losing Scotland will be bigger for the British Establishment than leaving the EU. By delaying article 50, Mrs May is creating the illusion, particularly in Scotland, that Brexit is not harming the UK at all. And so the voting intentions of the electorate on both sides of the border are undisturbed.

      And so the propaganda war continues. The thinking of the whole of the UK is being very carefully shaped right now. (North Korea has nothing on the UK!) The goal is to persuade the UK population that the UK Government is right and the EU and the Scottish Government are in the wrong. This way, it is hoped that EU sentiment among ‘remainers’ will weaken, and so also will support for Scottish independence. We are truly at war. Someone will win while others will lose. But the winning and the losing will take place around televised propaganda, in which 90% of viewers will be oblivious to what is going on.

      It’s a sair fecht!

    179. Meg merrilees says:

      Just found this interesting list from a group called ‘OPEN BRITAIN’, unfortunately connected with Anna Soubry! She’s part of a campaign to hold UKIP and Vote Leave to account now that they are backtracking on their promises.

      I certainly don’t suggest for one minute that anyone joins the actual campaign, HOWEVER, it’s a detailed list of some of the promises the Leave side made before the Brexit vote. Could be a useful tool??

      16. More public support for agriculture. “‘Let’s get one thing straight. The UK government will continue to give farmers and the environment as much support – or perhaps even more – as they get now.’” George Eustice, Vote Leave press release, 23 March 2016.

    180. K1 says:

      Meg, here’s that link archived…let’s not give them the clicks 😉

    181. yesindyref2 says:

      Onyway, interesting watching the Herald and Scotsman right now, with the Scotsman’s headline: “Poll: Support for Scottish independence higher than 2014” compared to the Herald’s “ Poll reveals support for independence ‘static’ after Brexit vote as Sturgeon accused of retreat“.

      I’ve noticed a bit of a change in the Scotsman over the weeks on the few occasions I’ve looked, and perhaps it’s hedging its bets a little. It should do, a “real” poll would show YES-NO neck and neck at the moment, with 20% or more undecided. And that undecided includes a fair number of previous YES supporters, as well as NO voters mulling things over.

      It’s all to play for, and sensible media writers and editors know that.

    182. yesindyref2 says:

      The Herald does get things right some times, for instance with this headline:

      “Jenny Hjul: Scotland has so mush to thank Cameron for”.


    183. yesindyref2 says:

      Me again, darned if I’m going to waste this, and anyone is welcome to use it cut down to suit their purpose. I’ve added the EU URL.


      I’m getting a bit fed up of this talk about a “£15 billion black hole”, and the EU with its 3% of GDP so called requirement, so let’s first take a look at what the EU actually requires. What the SGP (Stability and Growth Pact) actually wants is 3% deficit, or a satisfactory member state plan to reduce to that – which is called a Medium-Term Budgetary Objective (MTO). For eurozone members there can be sanctions ultimately from the enforcement arm, but Scotland would NOT be a member of the eurozone. So the requirement is to have a satisfactory MTO to reduce that deficit.

      The negative detractors of Independent Scotland “bang on” about oil revenues so let’s look at Scotland’s fiscal deficit (including capital expenditure) over the last 7 years – EXCLUDING oil revenues – i.e., its onshore fiscal deficit situation. The figures (all from GERS) are for deficit in billions, and percentage of GDP:

      2009-10 – £20.2 bn – 16.8%
      2010-11 – £19.6 bn – 16.0%
      2011-12 – £18.5 bn – 14.5%
      2012-13 – £19.5 bn – 15.1%
      2013-14 – £16.4 bn – 12.2%
      2014-15 – £16.7 bn – 11.9%
      2015-16 – £14.9 bn – 10.1%

      So in 6 years (end of 2010 to end of 2016), Scotland’s onshore deficit has reduced from 16.8% to 10.1% – a drop of 6.7%. It can reasonably be hoped that in another 6 years that onshore deficit can be reduced by another 6.7% to 3.4% – lower than France or the UK, and in one more year, to 2.3%. Which would mean our deficit by 2023 would be well below that EU target of 3% – even if the oil price did NOT recover over the next 7 years, and Scotland got no revenue from oil at all – just like 2015-16.

      I somehow think the EU SGP enforcement would find that an entirely acceptable MTO – Medium-Term Budgetary Objective – for Independent Scotland within the EU.

    184. Proud Cybernat says:

      The horror…

    185. yesindyref2 says:

      The point of that, by the way, is that Independent Scotland, despite what “highly respected economists” might say, would NOT have to raise taxes, would NOT have to cut public services, all it would have to do is continue on just the way it’s currently doing “steady as she goes” – even without tailoring our economy with all the extra levers of Independence.

      It’s time these Unionist detractors of Scotland had their bums felt.

      Or kicked – your choice.

    186. Smallaxe says:

      yesindyref2 says:”It’s time these Unionist detractors of Scotland had their bums felt.

      Or kicked – your choice.”

      Kicked Please! 🙂

      Peace Always

    187. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ken500 says: 14 September, 2016 at 12:19 am@

      “The elderly have a different life experience”

      That’s sweeping generalisation, Ken500, and much of your claims are demonstratively wrong.

      ” … Lower rate of education”

      That one for example is utter rubbish. In my school days I cannot recall anyone at school who was unable to read, write or count. Pupils with reduced learning ability were educated at special schools. Fact is that there are more now with poor basic literacy and many more with even basic arithmetic deficiencies.

      ” … hardship and wars etc.”

      There has hardly been a year since 1945/6 that the United Kingdom has NOT been at war somewhere or other. As to poverty – we didn’t need food-banks back then and as everyone had the same Ration Book we all got our share and were spared the excesses that plague us today with, for example obesity, drugs culture and sheer lack of exercise.

      ” … People in general, are conservative by nature as they get older.”

      That one is spot on. Now I’ll give you the true state of affairs and it is clearly logical and self explanatory.

      The now ever shrinking support for the Labour, Conservative and LibDem Unionist parties logically means there are fewer younger people who support them in the first place. Furthermore the shift in political support obviously means that while other parties gain supporters the old order loses them. However there is a secondary effect in that there are whole families and factions of older people who have direct connections to those Westminster Establishment parties.

      Think of the number of older people who were then the councillors, MPs and family members of the many Labour, Tory and LibDem local & regional councillors and MPs.

      These family members will mainly have married and had families of their own. They all thus have direct connections to the old order.

      I’ll put that a different way – these people are dyed in the wool unionists because they are the remnants of the old order and, due to the passage of time, (not because of their own individual age), still cling to their old loyalties.

      It is surprising those who experienced Thatcher hardship, did not vote YES, as could have been expected. Maybe next time. Smother them in kindness. A sweetie, a bunch of flowers or a treat. Leave the National about and any relative articles which they may read, if they are curious. A smile always helps. Some of the elderly don’t see anyone for days. Which is a shame.

    188. Sbmalla says:

      Robert Peffers:

      Good morning Mr Peffers,I have been trying to catch
      up with you for days to thank you for your post
      to myself a few days ago. I found it very interesting and informative. I did leave a reply
      which I hope you noticed.Thank you again sir.

      Peace Always

    189. Smallaxe says:

      Robert Peffers: I have been trying to catch up
      with you to thank you for the very interesting and
      informative post which you kindly sent me a few
      days ago. I do hope that you got my reply.Thank
      you once again sir.

    190. Tam Jardine says:

      yesindyref2 5.22am

      Great post. So the decline in oil & gas tax revenues generated in Scotland has masked the onshore increase.

      I posted on the EU growth & stability yesterday- I would be interested in your opinion of the whole process as it seems to me that it is an answer to some of the hysteria and catastrophism of the no side. It strikes me that we would be leaving this mechanism if we leave with rUK and joining if we leave the UK and need to work out the best way to present this to an electorate whose only knowledge of can be summed up in one word: Greece.

      Of course the EU growth and stability pact is also about reducing countries’ national debt but we if we are not getting a currency union that is going to be irrelevant.

    191. Ken500 says:

      Trump Charitible Foundation investigation, to find out if it abides by the rules. By a lawyer who sued it for $Millions. Has Trump revealed/published his tax affairs as required by US Law?

      Cameron lied about his property wealth at Westminster. He is a multimillionaire because of his property wealth. Plus wealth inherited from his stock brokers father’s tax evaded dealing. He will now be in line now to earn £Millions more from book deals etc. Cameron is one of the worse, crooked, corrupt, dangerous PM in history is now in line to earn even more £Millions from association. He sanctioned and starved the vulnerable and Illegally bombed innocent vulnerable people.

      JK sells a yacht for £15Million after a year, allegedly.

      The US is giving Israel $38Billion in military aid over 10 years. Without American aid Israel could not break international Law and act as an apartheid State. Israel doesn’t not comply with regulatory discriminatory Laws that are implied in the US. Rights and responsibilities to the most vulnerable in society. One Law for them another for others. Breaking International Law on illegal wars and civil rights. Discrimination against and starving innocent people. Not respecting human rights. Building houses on restricted territories. Keeping restricted in other areas. Maliciously damaging local economies.

      The US has approximate 300Million population. 50+ States. An average of 6Million people each State, although pop varies between States. Some more populated than other, Some more wealthy than others. Different resources. Some form of transfer of wealth between each State (tax affairs) Federal Gov. Average State membership approx pop size of Scotland. The Federal Gov overall control of military, foreign policy, security. 2 members elected from each State every two years One house -Senate. Other house Representative elected every 4/5 years? State election more representative of the people but relatively small federal goverance for the size of population. 600 representatives? For 300 million people. Light weight. One for 1/2million people?

      The State regulation covers day to day affairs. State elections govern policies of each State, within the Federal arrangement. A certain of autonomy. Elected Mayor, Fire Chief, Police chief etc. governed by State Regulation overseen by Federal legislation. Small taxation but private contributions for most social services. Education, health care, social care. States provided provision for social services for those less able to afford it. Medi care. Provision can vary from State to State.

      Prescription drugs are sold openly in pharmacies, super markets. Private medical care is expensive for those who can afford it. Serious illness can bankrupt and kill people. A dangerous precedent. Relatively cheaper prices for goods and services but less regulated employee benefits in certain sectors. Benefits – holiday provision, pension contributions provided by individual contribution. Not State/Fed provision applied. Relatively low house prices and low interest rates in most States. Federal Gov sets the interest rates and handles the Reserves.

      Relatively higher professional salaries but higher outlay for personal provision. The US is one of the most unequal (wealth) and unjust countries in the world. Considered to be one of the biggest polluters? and over resourced. Biggest debt in the world. Might fall over the cliff financially and take the rest of the world with it.

      President elected every 4 years, can serve two terms. President’s can be ‘lame duck’. President who can’t get mandated legislation through because it is block by changes in representation (support) in the Senate/Congress. Wheeling and dealing, persuasion. The Presidential election is not as powerful as it appears. Money buying favour? For a figure head role. Many have been assassinated. The US has lax gun Laws. approx 20 thousand people per a year are killed in shootings related incidents and 10,000 killed by other methods.

      Constitution more like the EU. EU bigger more population, 500Million. Each State/country is mainly autonomous but collected agreement on EU Law. Each State independent fiscal Law – some as per their Constitution which overrule EU Law – a get out clause. The EU is mainly a trading agreement with collective policies on environmental standards, peace keeping and collective pressure movement in external affairs. Not a fiscal collective. An agreed, (equal?), relatively low contribution from wealthier countries to balance with contributions to (smaller) less able countries to benefit the whole trading exchange. Grants to encourage environmental benefits. Protect the markets and the weaker members. To raise living standards, protect security and prevent disputes and wars. Eurozone (18 members) a cheaper form of exchange, and limits on regulative debt for fiscal management. Balanced books. Collective policies on tax evasion etc for trade and fairness. 27 State members.

      It is the US/UK and France who have been illegally bombing the Middle East for years and taking their resources, that has led to the migration crisis in Europe – not EU policy. Westminster Unionist do not want to take responsibility fir their illegal actions. Now destroying the world economy. Cameron was one of the worst PM’s ever. The rest are not much better.

    192. heedtracker says:

      Poor JK, but life is tough for a lot of Labour’s socialist workers.

      Telegraph › News
      JK Rowling sells her luxury yacht for £15m less than a year after buying it

      will be returning his sailor’s suit too.

    193. Brian Powell says:

      If R Davidson were to take up a seat in England she could become S of S in Scotland. The Tories would have no real reason not to do that, Slab is so paralysed by it’s fear of the SNP and Scotland doing well it is incapable of reacting and supporting the rational step of getting Independence, and being rid of Westminster Tories.

    194. Macart says:

      @Yesindyref2 5.22am

      Neatly done Dads and pretty much out there for folks to track for themselves. That’s the thing though, (as usual), its all about having the will to look in the first place and enough technical knowledge to understand. Most folks are terrified of numbers, accounting, legalspiel and suchwhat. The opposition know it and use it to their advantage. They use really big numbers and a metric tonne of wonkspeak to terrify the bejebus out of people.

      The way you’ve laid it out is perfect. Even allowing for the use of GERS, a simple decreasing scale gets the message across.

      Oh and as for the other post? 5.32?

      Its kick, definitely kick. 🙂

    195. scotspine says:

      So, just read on BBC Scotland News that Scots Govt is setting up a loan system to mitigate for any IT glitches next year with the CAP repayments system for farmers (by the way, thats an EU fund).

      Great you would think, Scots Govt thinking ahead to ensure folk get what they are entitled to.

      Oh no wail the opposition, shows Scots Govt failings up.

      You have to wonder what planet these fudricks are on. Because of the Westminster shower (opposition parties overlords), there WONT BE ANY BLOODY CAP PAYMENTS IN A COUPLE OF YEARS!!

      Who will the farmers gripe to then?

    196. Capella says:

      @ mike cassidy – thx for link. It’s like picking up rocks and observing the curiosities lurking beneath. The Tory Party always delivers!

    197. Smallaxe says:

      Nana: thank you for the links
      Just in time for breakfast.

      Peace Always

    198. Ken500 says:

      War 1939-45. Disrupted education. Services occupations, increased skills but damaged the world economy Devastating affect on Russia, the Far East. Tertiary education up to 15/16 for most of the population. People left school earlier. Until the 1960’s only 10% of the population received a University education with access to professional qualification and higher remunerated jobs. The 11+ selection. Unequal and unfair. Elderly people had less access to education in their youth.

      Now 50% of the population have access to University education. + College education, skills and apprenticeships. Learning trade skills can lead to a comfortable living. The Internet – more open learning. More access to information and education. Increased funding. The majority of elderly people had less access to education. Demographics. More life long learning and open access now. Mature students do relatively well.

    199. Tam Jardine says:


      Further to my last post- working on that at 5.22am? That just reminds me that 60 minutes an hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week somewhere out there a cybernat is busy beavering away to further the cause for Scottish Independence.

      Salut *clinks mug of tea*

    200. ScottieDog says:

      If the stability growth pact still exists in the next 5 years, the EU as we know it will simply not exist. Apart from being undemocratic it makes absolutely no economic sense. Deficits are endogenous I.e – they are in most countries an automatic reaction to activity in the rest of the economy. Had the UK followed the SGP criteria in 2008 we would have had a full blown depression.

      I do worry about what agreement we will sign up to in order to join the EU. It think in any case our export capacity WILL reduce our deficit but as a new country we need time AND we need the Scottish govt to run the deficits it needs as a new state in order to invest in its export base. I am very keen to hear what the terms of our joining would be. Although we won’t be in the single currency, we will be required to adhere to this crack-handed idea of ‘sound’ finance

      The stability growth pact is one of the most ruinous pieces of fag packet legislation in history. A few of the Eurozone countries have already breached it but haven’t been ‘punished’, the ECB has also done its rounds of QE – back door debt monetisation – which makes a mockery of the whole thing.

      For me, a sovereign Scotland would be best off with an Iceland type agreement with Europe.

    201. louis.b.argyll says:

      Pollsters admit they are able to skew results. It’s often the really old generations they use. 75+.
      Where are the grannies, grandads? Oh wait they’ve only surveyed widows and those not receiving care. Weird.

    202. Ken500 says:

      The Murray’s Tennis Centre will put £Millions into the Stirling and the local economy. A Green is defending landowners rights. Preventing land coming back into public use. Colluding with the minority. Com’n the Murray’s and associates, the Sport’s delights promoting health and fitness. Creating extended jobs and health promotion. Healthy occupations.

      The magnificent Murray’s Scotland’s heros have put Scotland on the international map. The Murray’s have taken the Davis Cup to Glasgow three times generating £Millions in revenues for Glasgow/Scotland/UK. The APT World finals at the O2. Britain is tennis daft. Wimbledon generates £Billion in revenues and funds. International broadcasting rights and sports regalia.

    203. louis.b.argyll says:

      The pollsters are now the ONLY LIARS that society can’t regulate.
      Pay up! And get the answers you want.

    204. Graeme says:

      Bit off topic I know but I just noticed from a link posted by call me dave the Scotsman titles itself “Scotlands National Newspaper” a bit hypocritical don’t you think when it works tirelessly to denigrate Scotland to a region


    205. Ken500 says:

      The amount of sugar in standard products is alarming. 16 teaspoons in a carton of ‘healthy’? fruit juice. Recommended intake is 4 teaspoons. Less for children. 6 teaspoons in a fizzy drink. More in processed foods. Plus the waste. Supermarket layout and goods. ‘loss leading’ alcohol, killing people. Health and diet being compromised. Smoking. Less simple food preparation. Obese health problems. Putting up the NHS/social costs.

      People being unable to work and dying earlier. Mental health problems are caused by Westminster policies. Worried, hungry or obese vulnerable people don’t sleep, get sick and depressed. Proper counselling or depression treatment is needed. Half the population is on anti depressants which can bring more addictive problems. Government could act. A more balanced, equal, sunny society has happier people.

    206. Ken500 says:

      The Pollsters are supposed to be regulated and fined. Despite censor for getting it wrong – poor deliberate? analysis. Bad methodology. Nothing is done. They could be put out of business. ‘The piper plays the tune’. Manipulated to influence the result for remuneration.

      Rev Stu always gets it right. Methodology and analyse.

    207. Breeks says:

      I don’t understand how you can say which group of people voted for what. How do you know? I thought my vote was anonymous.

      Rather than gerrymandering the electorate, why don’t we just strip away the tangible cheats and fixes we know about? Sue the BBC for its prejudices and misrepresentation and force it to confront its bias or step away a safe distance from any and all electoral process.

      Let us have a forensic review of what shenanigans goes on with postal voting, and implement rigorous safeguards to prevent cheating so at the very least we can have some confidence in the result.

      We should not accede to the Electoral Commission being arbiter and monitor of the referendum process but demand the work is done by a neutral and impartial agency from either Europe or the UN. If Westminster insists it want the UK Electoral Commission to run the show, at minimum, demand their conduct is shadowed by a neutral party with adequate power and influence to rectify improprieties.

      If we achieve a clean, honest, level playing field, I feel confident the arguments will carry the day, but if we do nothing about the bias and manipulated unionist narrative, then all bets are off and anything can happen.

      But I still believe with every fibre we have neglected the issue of Scotland’s popular sovereignty, which if properly understood and implemented would blow the authority which Westminster has presumed to hold over us for 300 years out the water. The Union is a fudge built upon an incompetent and unlawful premise and it only survives because we Scots are routinely conned into believing we have abdicated our sovereignty in lieu of Westminster’s notion of sovereignty, stemming from the Divine Right of Kings. We trot down to Her Majesties Parliament, we fight in Her Majesties Armed Forces, and we pay our taxes to Her Majesties Revenue and Customs.

      Why does that matter? It matters because if the Act of Union is unsound, Scotland reverts to its pre-union default as an independent sovereign country. Thus every vote, regulation, and ordinance enacted by the UK Parliament has dubious competence, since it is the work of a body with innapriopriate control over Scotland’s popular sovereignty. It is only the English part of Parliament which is Her Majesties. The Scottish part is ours. We are sovereign.

      Instead of holding a referendum to leave the UK, we could/should instead be holding an “alternative” referendum to give or deny our democratic and sovereign assent to ratify the Act of Union – the belated and binding ratification which the population of Scotland has never given the 1707 Act of Union. The Union is currently a wedding vow where the bride has never said the words “I do”. So is she married or isn’t she?

      I am not a lawyer, but my understanding of the law is that it is absolute. Scotland’s civic, popular sovereignty exists in clearly understood and competent legal ordinances which stand firm, intact and robust before all challenge. The historic misappropriation of Scotland’s sovereignty is not due to the failure or shortcoming of our Scottish Statute, it stems from the failure of the English Parliament and Scottish Lords to properly understand or recognise the seat and the source of Scotland’s sovereign authority. The whole 300+ year reign of Westminster is thus built upon a corrupted foundation.

      I need it explained to me why our people are asked to bend before the will of Westminster with its corrupt usurping of Scotland’s sovereignty, and why too, for 300 years, we have turned our backs on our binding, competent, and thoroughly robust legal precedents.

      A law is absolute isn’t it? It is an edict, a decree. A law once it exists continues to exist until it is revoked or repealed. The Act of Union has never carried the seal of approval of Scotland’s common people, and without that, it is false and improper. It isn’t law, it is lore.

      If we want to respect the continuity of our Scottish sovereignty, enshrined for the people in perpetuity back in the 14th century, then this constitutional detour if you will, this period when our sovereignty has been usurped and abused has to be revisited and the journey retraced. Forget for a moment our modern concept of unionism and nationalism, because surely, before we embroil ourselves in such arguments we must first clarify the legal dogs breakfast which somehow usurped our popular sovereignty and removed it to Westminster.

      Surely, we must get the law tidied up so at the very least we know beyond all question or doubt that Scotland is either an independent country which needs to ratify or annul the Act of Union properly, or alternatively, that the Act of Union was indeed sound and that currently Scotland is not an independent nation and must elect to become one before it can enter any binding relationship with Europe. Let us simply put an end to this ambiguity.

      If the Act of Union is sound, the struggle we Nats have is to repeal it. If the Act of Union is unsound, it is unsound because it lacks popular ratification from the sovereign people. How can we proceed from here in any direction before establishing the legitimacy of the Act of Union which binds us, (and furthermore reconcile the absent legislation which repeals and “un-enshrines” our collective popular sovereignty)? This dogs breakfast only endures because people on both sides seem inexplicably reluctant to apply the strict letter of the law.

      Clear up this bloody mess, then the way forward will be crystal clear and every step we take will at least be properly shod.

      If we are in a United Kingdom, let it be a Union which can readily reconcile how Scottsh popular sovereignty can be, and has been, properly integrated with English divine sovereignty. Why would anybody, unionist or nationalist, think that question is unreasonable? Unless you know the answer full well and don’t like it eh?

      If we are in a United Kingdom where the marriage vows were incomplete or faulty, then for all we have been acting our part in the marriage, and whether we want to be married or don’t, the marriage isn’t legit. It’s a little embarrassing, and sure, it is just a technicality, but until the marriage vow IS complete, the marriage hasn’t happened.


    208. Sinky says:

      BBC GMS at8.44 am giving plenty of air time to speaker from Quebec at Scotland in Union meeting.

      Can’t remember when any speaker at a pro indy meeting was ever given any airtime by the Beeb.

    209. yesindyref2 says:

      Now the summer season is over I might have a bit more time to go over GERS – over some years for the progressions. The always quoted figure is fiscal deficit but that includes capital expenditure, so first I want to look at the current balances, and then the capital expenditure – including where it goes, which means into the detail, rather than just executive summaries.

      There was one year – I think the blip year of 2012-13 perhaps – that Swinney explained as because there was a considerable extra CE that year, and I want to check that out. It’ll all take a while though.

      @Tam Jardine
      Cheers! I don’t drink much these days, too busy to be doing with a sor heid, but ironically my son being here I’d cracked open the bottle of “The Famous Dad” I got for my birthday last month, and had a couple of glasses. Put me in the mood to do some figure checking – and some work. Off to bed, but I’ll have a look at your posting later.

      I’ve been doing a bit of reading at times about the EU, and one thing it seems to want is less tariffs not more, as the extra trade will increase its GDP and economy – and a good thing too. That would give the UK a better chance with its Brexit negotiations if it plays it right, and of course that means that the Scotland-rUK trade would be safe. There’s also resistance to the TTIP deal. But that’s all another story! I, well, we, need to do a fair bit more research into the inner workings of the EU, as it’s going to be a major issue I think in Indy Ref 2 – more than the first one.

      Oh. Unionists have been using (abusing) GERS to their advantage recently, but for every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction or something like that, and that is that since they’re so much into GERS these days, we can throw it straight back at them. Then they’ll be forced into saying that GERS doesn’t represent Scotland’s real position, and isn’t “authoritative”, and it just isn’t fair, they’re not playing any more, help me Rona …

    210. Macart says:


      Some great links there Nana. The BI article with Verhofstadt’s opening statements doesn’t miss an hit the wa’. 🙂

    211. Ken500 says:

      Many Farmers are always in debt. Cash flow. Most have the assets, equipment buildings to cover the debt. Non taxable land. The bank accepts. Major estates mortgage the land for considerable sums on the land values – increases. Collateral. That is how they raise their money. Production or selling off land. – Grants, rents and favours. Trying to get political influence. Not paying tax. The ‘debt’ should be balanced off the land value assets. (Agricultural) Land is on average £5000 an acre in Scotland. Worth millions more with planning permission.

      A total non political argument. Scotland is half empty owned by a small number of land owning ‘farmers’ A totally corrupt political argument by the ill informed, ignorant, arrogant Press. A lot of starving farmers committing suicide. Really. Some have production difficulties. Trying to make a purse out of a sows ear. Or something. Weather. unexpected climate difficulties. Seasonal production to cover the slack periods. Potatoe seedling are exported all over the world. Along with other goods and foodstuffs, Major exports, fish products, water, berries production jam etc,

      Some get CAP payments and buy up more land. Larger farms produce more. Scotland has an extremely successful farming industry. Produces surplus. Whisky, food, foodstuffs etc. Just more hysteria from the lying Press. Trying to make a non existent crisis. A mountain out of a molehill.

    212. Ken500 says:

      Cameron blocked Verhofstadt’s application for EU higher office/ Presidency? Blocked Gordon Brown.

    213. Andrew McLean says:

      Just back from holiday and taking ages to catch up, but great fun reading the posts over the last few weeks, reading the revs Twitter is a laugh, read a post by AgentP laughing that the European Commission regrets and respected the brexit vote, and somehow convoluted that into Blow for Sturgeon, well most of my fellow Europeans have the same feeling, respect but regret.

      But, every one I spoke to, was aware of Scotland’s desire to remain, and respected and admired that decision, the first Ministers trips have been having an impact on everyday citizens. And yes as they regret and respect the democratic wish of England, they unanimously supported Scotland becoming independent, but more worrying was the way the discussion mostly became about carving up the spoils. For instance one Dutch gentleman who worked for the statistical office, told me about the jostling for position once the London stock exchange is out of the EFP, something that “our” press said would not happen, Britain being the world capital or something? And a discussion regarding how much of a loss to German car manufacturers it would actually be if tariffs were imposed on English car manufacturing, the prize being too fold, most German cars are expensive and Britain will continue to buy regardless. So the market in Europe would be left to the German French and Italian manufacturers without having to complete with England as much, and with the addition of Japanese manufacturing relocated eventually to Europe, thus providing jobs. Not one person said brexateers were to be given any quarter, with some saying it would be politically madness if there was a easy out, “England will be punished” was on man’s verbalisation of a common desire to not allow Europe to suffer due to Brexit, “remember you were the sick man of Europe once” was a chilling rebuke!

      Also I was left with the impression that Europeans feel disgusted that England has not pulled its weight during the refugee crisis, I assured them that Scotland was fully behind Europe, and our First Minister, that they said they believed.

      Now my final, but most salient point, in my shame I couldn’t name the leader of the Dutch Parliament, and even forgot the Spanish one, but everyone, and I mean everyone knew who Nicola Sturgeon was.

      Europe clearly is open for business with Scotland.

    214. Macart says:


      Sounds like a helluva project, but if the outcomes could be simplified as your example above and then disseminated by some helpful bods hereaboots, then well worth the effort.

      Oh and did you catch the release of this by the by?

    215. Nana says:

      For anyone interested Guy Verhofstadt due to speak soon

    216. Ken500 says:

      The Tories are raising £515Billion in tax in the UK. Borrowing £75Billion + £20Billion black hole. = £610Billion

      Before they came to powerLabour was raising £600Billion and borrowing £120Billion = £720Billion

      The ConDem – Tories cut taxes for the wealthy (tax evasion) and sanctioned and starved the vulnerable. Britain is the most unequal unfair place in the world. That is why people are raging and annoyed.

    217. Ken500 says:

      Donald Tusk is at it. He wants freedom of movement for Polish migrants with equal rights, but doesn’t want migrants in Poland.

    218. Smallaxe says:

      Great post again,there is no need for divorce from a mock

      Peace Always

    219. Ken500 says:

      Westminster gave a £2Billion grant to Nissan to set up in the North of England (for electric car development?). Electric cars are four times cheaper to run – than petrol. Vehicles emission standards are 4 times higher in the US compared to EU. Approx US 20% – EU 80%.

      Westminster gave a £1Billion Grant (each?) for two coal production plants in the North of East of England near Sheffield. Clegg’s constituency. The Tories have now banned coal production in the UK. Refused permission for CCS at Longannet in Fife (Hulne) and refused CCS Grant promised in NE of Scotland. Losing £Billions after (deliberately) destroying the Oil sector. Losing thousands of jobs.

    220. Ken500 says:

      Quebec is a totally different situation. Not to confuse or compare. Used to try and bash Scotland Independent movement and need for autonomy. Quebec is autonomous, with fiscal rights. Canada is more equal and fair. Federal system.

    221. Robert Peffers at 7.08 am.

      “People in general, are conservative by nature as they get older”.
      Robert, I very much enjoy your writings on various subjects, especially the ones where my knowledge is sadly lacking.
      It,s when you pick up Ken500 on the above point that I think we have to be careful. I think I am in the same age group as yourself, and as I get older, I am going in the opposite direction. Maybe it’s just me, although I don’t think so considering the turnout, age wise, at our A.G.M yesterday evening. From believing the Tory “One Nation” propaganda in the 1950s, to my wakening in the 1970s to the wholescale robbery by Westminster of Scottish assets, which is still going on today, I am still moving away from conservatism, with a small c.
      I too thought we were going to win the 2014 referendum, we actually did in our area so that probably skewed my thinking, because the majority of the electorate had lived through the Thatcher years, and would consider independence a better option. Wrong, not for the first time, although I feel that when the full effect of the economic carnage that “Brexit” is going to cause, even my age group might vote Yes in Indyref2.

    222. galamcennalath says:

      Ken500 says:

      “The amount of sugar in standard products is alarming. 16 teaspoons in a carton of ‘healthy’? fruit juice.”

      The product which shows the food industry at its worst are ‘juice drinks’ in cartons. These things are designed to look like pure juice and the supermarkets mix them with real juice on the shelves. They are most water and sugar with ~20% juice.

      Yes, real juice can be high in sugar but not as bad as these things.

      I know for a fact, people buy these thinking it’s pure juice, especially older people. The product is designed to deceive.

      Personally, my favourite is tomato juice. 3g sugar per 100ml. 🙂

    223. Proud Cybernat says:


    224. One_Scot says:

      Can’t help from feeling that Scotland would be a great role model for the world, if the Yoons stopped trying to destroy us.

    225. mr thms says:

      From the BBC

      “The number of people without jobs and looking for work fell by 39,000 to 1.63 million between May and July, official figures show.”

      It would seem that 29,000 of the 39,000 fall occurred in Scotland and its unemployment rate is now lower than the U.K. rate.

      “• The employment rate has increased to 74.1%, with the employment level rising 51,000 over the quarter
      • The unemployment rate fell by 1.1 percentage points over the quarter to 4.7% and is now below that of the UK at 4.9%
      • The unemployment level also fell by 29,000 over the quarter to reach 130,000
      • Scotland continues to outperform the UK on female employment, unemployment and inactivity rates
      • The youth unemployment rate fell by 2.8 percentage points over the year to reach 12.4%, outperforming the UK at 13.6%.”

    226. Proud Cybernat says:

      SNP – The Fall Guy…

    227. Tinto Chiel says:

      Apologies if someone has linked to this before. I justify it because a) Ruth worked for the BBC, b) she is supported by the iron lung of the BBC, c) Craig Murray is writing about the BBC.

      I am convinced we will get much worse staged/black flag stuff like this thrown at us once Indyref2 starts. Cue activity by “shadowy Republican Nationalists” etc.

    228. Nana says:


      Difficult to decide which articles on ‘Brexit means what exactly’ to post and you should see the amount I dumped.

      Everyone and their grannie wants to write about brexit. None of us know what will happen but we sure know there will be one hell of a mess while the tories are in charge.

    229. Smallaxe says:

      galamcennalath says:”These things are designed to look like pure juice and the supermarkets mix them with real juice on the shelves. They are most water and sugar with ~20% juice.”

      My grandchildren were given this”Healthy Juice”in feeding cups
      when they were younger,it took the enamel from their baby teeth,luckly their adult teeth were not affected.This juice acts like acid especially when used with a feeding cup.

      I would advise against any parent giving this this juice to
      toddlers,especially in a feeding cup as this directs it straight on to the babies front teeth.

      Peace Always

    230. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Difficult to decide which articles on ‘Brexit means what exactly’

      These guys are also trying to figure out what it means…

    231. Ken500 says:

      Never has such complete and utter nonsense been printed about the farming sutuation.

      Once the tax – expenses and Grants are calculated. With relatively low interests rates. Any extra interest payments claimed as a expense or Grant deduction. The new computers system (EU funded) making payments easier and costs less expensive. The farmers could end up better off because of the delays.

      Farague is off on one about a shared EU Defence Force being considered. A nasty little criminal. Farague is a crook. He has been illegally funding a political Party with EU public money for years. He should be in jail. A greedy little criminal. An offshore fund. Tax evading Multimillionaire. Crass, criminal liar.

      The EU share Defence policy/costs, now, makes Defence less expensive. Saves £Billions. That is one of the advantages of EU membership. Shared Defence policies and costs. Defence systems cost £Billions. Soon redundant. Obsolete. Scrapped or sold at a loss and the next one comes along. Repeat. Losing £Billions in wasted weaponry.

      Obsolete Trident should be scrapped. With Brexit that will happen? Westminster will fall down the decision making scale. The EU policies keep the Peace in the world. Prevention is easier than cure. Same with shared medical science costs. The UK will be stripped out of the equation.

    232. Ken500 says:

      Sugar in cereals and process foods (classed as healthy) by comparison are alarming

      E.g. Rice Krispies reasonable. Special K over the scale.

      Elairs lower. Meringues over the scale. Complete sugar.

      When the products are app checked. i.e. Similar available products. Total difference of calories.
      People check fat but sugars are beyond the scale by comparison.

    233. Ken500 says:

      Craig Murray is a hypocrite. Supported the British establishment when it suited. Hangs out with some weirdo on a website, which delete and bans but claims to support freedom of speech.

    234. heedtracker says:

      Coffee time, morrisons’s’s union jack boxed filled doughnuts, raspberry, and another wodge of UKOK propaganda normalising toryboy corruption as per UKOK usual.

      Or, in a parallel universe, FM Nic Sturgeon’s personally hiring and firing the head of the BBC in Scotland and we’re all supposed to just lump it.

      May’s role in BBC chief’s exit ‘brutal and extraordinary’
      Former vice-chairman of BBC Trust expresses alarm at reversal of David Cameron’s appointment of Rona Fairhead”

      Tory PM Teresa Thatcher appoints a new tory to run the BBC, isn’t the headline, for liberal and progressive rancid The Graun. Its that top torygirl was fired that upsets this deeply weird trade called UKOK hackdom.

      Its how red and blue establish and estate works in teamGB right enough. Scotland can do better than this rein by claques, cliques and troughers, shurely:D

      Anyone want that last union jacked boxed and filled morrisons doughnut?!

    235. ScottieDog says:

      if the stability growth pact is still in place by 2020 never mind 2023, there won’t be an EU as we know it and there probably won’t be a common currency zone.

      we shouldn’t actually sign up to any growth pact especially as a new country. deficits are endogenous – they are a reaction to the activity or lack of in the economy. trying to put a limit on a deficit is like saying you’re house thermostat is limited to 1 KW. As soon as you reach that limit you are no longer in control of your temperature.

      So Greece reached the limit of the SGP and now it can go to hell as far as the troika are concerned. The only way out now for them is via higher deficits.

      Britian was exempt from the SGP but if we are not then my preference here is for the EEA like Iceland, where we are not hamstrung by rules that make no macro-economic sense.

      As long as Scotland has its own floating currency there won’t be any solvency issues.

    236. Artyhetty says:


      You mention land rights and the Greens Ken. My son is in hospital at the Western and I have walked past that dreadful, in my view, Fettes school several times now. It covers masses of land, and it got me thinking, whose land is it and how did they get it? These halls of pure privilege were built on city land, I wonder how much they paid for it, suspect it is not easy to find out. It may have been part of a big estate, it still is a big estate, with it’s locked gates and imposing, overbearing facade.

      Keeping up in between walks to the Western, hoping my son is out soon, he has breathing probs, asthma, a worry, and he is fed up. Thank god for technology, if you have dyslexia, you can’t even read the menu!

    237. sinky says:

      BBC reporting lowest ever oil revenues.

      But why has no one queried that UK oil revenues have fallen 99% since 2014 yet oil price has fallen by only 54% and output actually increased by 15 to 20%.

      By contrast Norway, which has roughly twice the north sea output than the UK and higher Labour costs, raised £9.5 billion in government oil revenues yet apparently the UK only managed to raise £76 million in 2015. Why is this?

    238. Petra says:

      @ Heedtracker at 10:58am …. ‘Rona Fairhead’

      Credit where credit’s due. Theresa May giving BBC Trust Vice Chairman Rona Fairhead (links to HSBC) the boot. Next up, hopefully, BBC Trust Sir Roger Carr …. Chairman of BAE.

    239. gus1940 says:

      Petra 11.19

      What about Brillo?

    240. Breeks says:

      Thanks Smallaxe.

      What I was getting at, (but conscious of a longer and longer post) wasn’t so much the effect that a “void” Act of Union would have on Nationalists, but what it would mean for Unionists.

      A void Act of Union defaults to an Independent Scotland which removes all constitutional barriers to Scotland staying in Europe, but it also puts Scotland in a totally unique position to actually assist the UK is securing a softish Brexit. You may disagree, but that is a good result for everybody.

      A quasi federal UK, that is with the British Isles comprised of Sovereign states Scotland, England, Ireland, and perhaps Wales too does open possibilities for a legitimate relationship with some historic precedence which can exist between EU and non- EU states, especially if it was set up to be so. It would of course be a very loose Federation of English speaking Nations with one foot inside Europe and the other foot outside. At least there is a logic to that if nothing else.

      Despite all the bluster and brinkmanship, and any bitterness and finger pointing, perhaps there is a way for “Britishness” to survive the fragmentation of the U.K. into its sovereign components, and achieve an outcome where all parties in and out of Europe get a deal they can live with.

      It may well be Europe might still insist on Freedom of Movement and the magic four fundamentals, but perhaps, just perhaps, there might be a case to be made for a more limited Freedom of Movement between former UK states. Not enough to give England unfettered access to Europes free market naturally, but perhaps a tough compromise which Europe can isolate at arms length, contain to the British Isles, but still placate the troublesome Rostbiffs, and give them a face saving, (or perhaps make that an economy-saving) climb down.

      A new Scotland, suddenly Independent by accident of legal default, could actually be a godsend for both Westminster and Europe. A sovereign state holding together a fragmenting European Union by reinventing a “Federal-ish” British Isles and ironing out some historical anomalies all at the same time.

      It becomes very difficult to condemn Scottish Nationalism as an anti-English blood and soil nationalism when the first thing an Independent Scotland does is throw a steadying life line to the good ship Brexit. Europe is off the hook, rUK has a lifeline, and the US/NATO doesn’t need to fret to the same degree about the ignominious dissolution of the UK’s military potential.

      Hey, I’m just thinking the unthinkable out loud, but frankly that’s the closest I have come to a positive resolution that might actually work, gives everybody most of what they want, and let’s us all sit down at the same table in friendship when the dust settles. Everybody for the most part wins, everybody makes a little compromise, and everybody says thank you Scotland, welcome to the international community of sovereign Nations.

      The British Isles still exist in a meaningful form, inside Europe, but with England and Europe separated by a Celtic buffer zone. Europe still has broad conformity across its four fundamental principals, but whereas EFTA embraces some EU legislation but not all, perhaps the British “Federation” can work out something similar, but with Scotland and Ireland still full EU Members, but with concessions to accommodate our South Britain cousins in times of crisis.

    241. Proud Cybernat says:

      “BBC reporting lowest ever oil revenues.”

    242. ScottishPsyche says:

      Does anyone else think David Cameron’s hasty departure may have had something to do with the blame for the rise of Isis being placed squarely on his colossal mismanagement of Libya?

      Is he doing a runner before a Chilcot style report is commissioned?

      Is he the worst PM the UK has ever had?

    243. Nana says:


      12:30: @NicolaSturgeon gives evidence at SP_European
      After 2: Feorlean leads EU debate in the chamber. #ScotlandInEurope

      a few more links before I go out


    244. Stoker says:

      Yon Dim Ruth’s campaign is being orchestrated by and from London!
      She’s as thick as shit and twice as smelly!

      Rona Fairhead steps down!

      C’mon folks, only 3 days remaining to pull in £300!
      Please help if you can!

    245. Smallaxe says:

      You seem to have an uncanny way of writing more or less the
      way I see things.Scotland can/ would be in a unique position
      to as you say,get everyone involved to sit around the table
      peacefully and in harmony to get the best deal for everyone
      concerned. I have no wish to profit from anyone elses misfortune and as
      you so eloquently state,we can have Scotland
      and Ireland still members of the EU and extend the hand of
      friendship and assistance to our southern cousins and others
      to whom we would be only too happy to assist if possible

      Peace Always

    246. Petra says:

      Some great posts (informative and funny) on here as usual.

      And great links too. Grasping the Grid (Nana at 7:40am) is a ‘must read’, imo, and to file away for future reference.

      At Nana 7:46am. Interesting that Cameron has done a runner just before the shambles he’s made of Libya (Europe etc) is reported. Shambles of the NHS too. A couple of points, from many, to ‘stick it to’ Rooth the Mooth. What’s she got to say about that?

      Blair, Brown and Cameron, BETTER TOGETHER leaders, have created this almighty mess. Misery and mayhem in the Far East, North Africa and Europe. Millions killed, tortured, raped and displaced. What a legacy for them. An unforgivable disgrace, another one, for the United Kingdom to add to their long list. The shambles they’ve created leading to them pulling up the Brexit drawbridge to prevent the victims of their actions finding a safe refuge in the UK. Hit and run the UK way. Meanwhile the BBC are reporting on Scottish nurse Pauline Cafferky (wrong spelling?) lying about her temperature. You couldn’t make it up. “Oh, yes they can!”


      Then there’s the carry on with HMRC and US company Concentrix. Thousands more people living in abject poverty because they’ve been denied their tax credits. Their reasons for doing so! What a story that is.


      @ Macart at 9:03 ….. ‘Fraser of Allander Institute Report.’

      Thanks for that link Macart.


      The polls. Whatever way you look at it we’re at least 15% higher than we were in the run up to Indyref1. All it’ll take to raise this figure is for Nicola Sturgeon (and her experts) to get some facts out there, for companies to start pulling out of the UK following the triggering of Article 50 and for the public to know that the EU will welcome Scotland with open arms. Better still if a couple of companies announce that they’ll relocate to Scotland if we get our Independence.


      The march / gathering at the weekend. I’ve been talking to some people who had no idea about this at all. Could someone post the date, time and starting point on here for all to see as I’m on my IPad, can’t check, and unsure of the starting point myself!

    247. Robert Peffers says:

      @Smallaxe says: 14 September, 2016 at 7:24 am:

      “Robert Peffers: I have been trying to catch up
      with you to thank you for the very interesting and
      informative post which you kindly sent me a few
      days ago. I do hope that you got my reply.Thank”
      you once again sir.

      I’m rather struggling to keep up just now as I’m in the process of redoing my entire, and quite complex, wired home network. That and building an entertainment centre into what had been a boarded up recess by the main room fireplace. The result is I cannot get on-line while the home network is down.

      I thank you for your reply and I will be back to normal circumstances soon. These old. ex-miner’s cottages are situated above the old mine workings. The subsidence has long ago settled down but there now isn’t two walls in the cottage that are parallel, level or square with each other.

      It makes things very interesting when attempting to design anything to fit in with the existing cottage. Then there is the old lime plaster – best not to go there though.

    248. Tam Jardine says:


      I have been looking at the expenditure spreadsheet from last year’s gers figures- not the public summary excel- the one those figures were drawn from. I have not been able to get the new one from the GERS people and I have never seen a revenue one.

      Over on Kevin’s blog I have been asking about it and am drawing a blank. I’ve been looking at parliament costs and was asking about the Commons:

      I can see that the UK House of Commons costs increased from £269,013,000 in 2013/14 to £653,848,000 in 2014/2015 and costs attributed to Scotland increased along similar lines (well, slightly less as population continues to diverge) from £22,357,000 to £54,129,000. 
      During the same year the cost of the House of Lords increased only fractionally.

      Why has the cosy of running the commons increased by £384 million in one year- repairs?

      Also- where on the sheet is the cost of running the Welsh Assembly and Stormont?

      From what I can tell it looks like we are in for a piece of the Welsh assembly, Stormont and the full cost of holyrood (unless they have just left it off the sheet).

      It is minor in the grand scheme but every distortion is amplified – every extra cost for Scotland also represents revenue spent elsewhere. It skews our expenditure in areas we get attributed zero revenue for.

      I need up to date figures for both expenditure and revenue to assess this in detail. Plus a few extra hours in the day!

    249. yesindyref2 says:

      Can’t sleep! Couple of links about GERW, it’s being done from this year by the Cardiff Uni Wales Governance centre, as it was discontinued by the Lab Gov in 1997:

      Although a similar publication for Wales also started life in the 1990s, unlike GERS, the Welsh series was discontinued by the incoming UK government in 1997 and therefore did not have the opportunity to undergo the gradual revisions to methodology that have significantly improved the Scottish report over its 25 year history. As a result, since devolution, serious discussion of the state of Wales’ public finances has been constantly hampered by the paucity of disaggregated public spending, taxation and other basic economic data. The absence of such data is increasingly serious given that fiscal devolution constitutes the next major phase of Welsh devolution.

      Cardiff Uni GERW

      Can’t help (yet perhaps) with NI, nor the Westminster costs, but perhaps it’s the cost of full surveys and architect plans for the £whatever billion renovations.

    250. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh nice, quick look for Government Expenditure and Revenue Northern Ireland finds this:

      The DFP report acknowledges that many items which make up public expenditure and revenue are estimates and are “subject to some statistical uncertainty”. This article explains some of the issues involved in apportioning public spending and revenue to Northern Ireland.

      and this, a beauty:

      The difficulty of apportioning spending by UK Departments to regions is highlighted by the example of the Imperial War Museum and British Museum, both based in
      in London.

      And we think we’re alone with our “on behalf of Scotland” expenditure 🙂

    251. Smallaxe says:

      Robert Peffers:

      You have my sympathy re’ limestone I had to move home due to
      dampness caused by this material,the house itself had a lake
      in front and woods behind,paradise as far as I was concerned.

      Fishing and birdwatching combined,moving out nearly broke my
      heart,but the health risk was to much to ignore. I wish you
      well in your endeavours sir.

      Peace Always

    252. Petra says:

      Well done to those trying to make sense of GERS.

      @ gus1940 says at 11:30 am …. ”Petra what about Brillo?”

      He may not need to wait on Theresa May kicking him out Gus. His lifestyle / state of health may do that for him.

    253. Smallaxe says:

      I don’t know about Saturday but Sunday at Glasgow Green begins
      a two pm until Eight pm.Hope this helps.

      Peace Always

    254. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tam Jardine
      I found this for July 2014 at:

      “Date Expense type Expense area Supplier TransNo Amount œ Description


      That’s £410 million – would that be it? Lookas very near the figure of the increase.

    255. Ken500 says:

      NI (2 million pop) raises £28Billion but gets £14Billion (50%) more. = £42Billion. Norwegian levels. NI has more autonomy and fiscal powers.

      Pro rata Scotland (5.2 million) would get £54Billion raise plus (50%) £27Billion = £81Billion Norwegian level of funding.

      Norway (5 million pop) raises £84Billion in taxes and has a £500Billion Oil Fund. Invests in the fund. Uses the investment revenues. One of the wealthiest, healthiest and happiest countries on earth. Top on every tables,

    256. Ken500 says:

      Swimming and steam room cures asthma. Not sauna. To be avoided. Get your son down to a swimming pool or health club. It completely cures it. Some folk with asthma and high cholesterol and could hardly walk. On prescription drugs. Enhaler. Completely cured and drug free. Exercise helps depression as well. Fun.

    257. Tam Jardine says:


      I will see if there is a similar decrease elsewhere. My other point is- are the costs of n Ireland and Wales counted in the ruk figures? And if not, what else is missing? It would skew the figures against Scotia. And if they are included then are we paying a portion as we are Westminster?

      We have to watch these shared services. Every £ spent in ruk for services we get zero benefit from is an extra £ on Scotland’s expenditure and a £ off ruk. It distorts the figures by £2 in rUK’s favour. I am certain there will be nothing the other way- ie I can’t imagine money spent in Scotland for Scotland’s sole benefit finds it’s way into the rUK figures.

    258. Tam Jardine says:


      Ok- managed to find those costs. Duh!

    259. Rock says:


      “Craig Murray is a hypocrite. Supported the British establishment when it suited. Hangs out with some weirdo on a website, which delete and bans but claims to support freedom of speech.”

      Agree 100%.

      He is an ex LibDem who was secretly a close personal friend of Carmichael throughout the independence referendum campaign.

      The SNP probably knew this when it rejected him as an SNP candidate.

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