Not-so-special delivery
Scottish Labour were unambiguous: VOW DELIVERED IN FULL!
And who could disagree?
Oh. That’s the Welsh Labour MP Wayne David, who’s been roped in by the party as a shadow Scotland minister because they only have one actual Scottish MP.
“The acid test of this bill is whether it delivers on The Vow and the recommendations of the Smith Commission… we believe that the bill that we have before us goes a long way to delivering on the Smith Commission.
That is not to say that the government has delivered on absolutely everything. They clearly haven’t.“
Ian Murray is sitting right next to Mr David as he flatly contradicts Scottish Labour’s official line, and registers no visible surprise or objection. Then again, it looks like he may be engrossed in a game of Candy Crush Saga.
We trust any confusion will be cleared up soon.
If anyone ever hears someone saying that they intend to vote for Labour come the Scottish election, you are well within your right to ask ,’Seriously, why would you do that.’
The bill that we have before us goes a long way to delivering on the extinction of Labour in Scotland.
Here’s a vow that will be delivered, S******H “Labour” your days are numbered. You lying sleekit baistards.
Anybody know what Candy Crush level Murray has reached?
As for him not reacting to an official WM Labour statement that Smith has not been delivered, why would be be surprised? Does anyone anywhere actually honestly believe the Scotland Bill is Smith? And, Smith is much less than the Vow implied to most people.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/10/police-scotland-call-handling-hmics-review-lamara-bell-m9-crash
How Libby Carrell reports last night instead. Really creepy pack of con artists.
What a telling picture. Our three Unionist MPs are busy. One is presenting a sham bill. One is playing with his smart phone and the third is in court.
Aye it’s the wee slips that give the game away.
As the media in Scotland desperately try to save Labour, by repeatedly assuring the wavering No’s that the Vow’s been delivered.
The Labour boat, holed beneath the line will continue to take on water, they will drown in their own deceit…
SNP/SNP 2016
@galamcennalath
“Anybody know what Candy Crush level Murray has reached?”
I doubt he’s made it past the title screen.
After last night, I’m so looking forward to the first red rosette of Spring to come knocking on my door. I want the satisfaction of looking them in the eye as I close the door slowly, but firmly in their face without saying a word.
There could be another explanation for his non reaction. He could be asleep.
Well, we are not. We are wide awake and there are those of us who are extremely angry. In May, 2015, Mr Murray, and Labour, may just find out how angry.
The Scottish people should have the final say on whether they believe the Scotland Bill meets their aspirations. Not Mundell, Cameron or wheel on Labourites.
It the last thread I suggested they might wish to test this with a referendum.
I see Prof Curtice believes the same …
https://archive.is/SvpV1
Their best possible offer (this Scotland Bill) versus independence.
Take what’s on offer, or leave the Union.
What happened last night was probably the single largest push we’ve had towards independence since the Tory majority. Labour voted with the Tories to (as NS pointed out) protect the Tory right to impose cuts on the poorest working families. If there was ever any doubt that labour would rather see the Tories running Scotland than Scots running Scotland, then that doubt has gone.
But how is this message going to get to the public?? McWhirter at least says the SG have been delivered a poisoned chalice
SNP over to you
@ Macart
“After last night, I’m so looking forward to the first red rosette of Spring to come knocking on my door. I want the satisfaction of looking them in the eye as I close the door slowly, but firmly in their face without saying a word.”
I don’t think I could haud ma tongue.
SLabour having great fun online UKOK
Duncan Hothersall Retweeted
Blair McDougall ?@blairmcdougall 4 hrs4 hours ago
Unhappy about poverty in Scotland? Use the new powers on tax & welfare to actually make a difference. Change not grievance. @AngusRobertson
Not one red tory has said how exactly “new powers” are meant to do anything, nor why last Scottish red tory voted with blue tories to stop Holyrood control of tax credit. Or maybe they will sooner or later.
@Macart
After May any Labourites anywhere not in Embra South should be told they are off reservation and that Embra South is thataway [point in whichever is the correct direction from where you are].
@jimnarlene
I’m beyond reasoning with their canvassers anymore. I’m way beyond raging at them for that matter.
After last night, they’ve proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are irrelevant and surplus to the needs of the electorate. We have focussed progressive parties who actually give a shit about people’s needs rather than the next election.
The tax credit fiasco on top of their complete capitulation over the devolution settlement was the last straw for me. They deserve nothing less than utter silent contempt on the doorstep. They aren’t worthy of time or argument for that, to me, implies that there is an argument there to be won, or a point to be made. Perhaps even that a tenuous consensus can be reached. No, last night they chose state and political advantage before need.
…and the horse they rode in on. (fill in where appropriate)
When the street stalls and the canvassing begin in Govan next year I’m going to hand condolences cards to the SLab volunteers.
They really have signed their own political death warrant in Scotland.
LABOUR PARTY VOTES WITH TORIES TO INFLICT CUTS TO TAX CREDITS ON SCOTLAND.
Spin that, Dunc.
Sorry I am so early with this but I thought folks would want to know.
I have just read over on Facebook that Lindsay Jarrett has left hospital! 😀
I don’t know what the SNPs political strategy is, but for the sake of Scotland, it needs to be a good one.
Karmanaut at 12.01 pm
Well you would think last nights HOC escapades would be a push towards independence.
But in order for that to happen the public in general need to know.
The problem is the general public do not watch BBC Parliament channel, nor do the mainstream media actually tell what has been going on.
You know what happened, I know what happened as does most if not all on here as we have seen for ourselves.
But the man or woman on the street still relies on being fed by unionist papers and tv & radio
What needs to happen is to drop short clips of the likes of Alberto Costa doing his anti Scotland stuff, onto social media (Facebook and Twitter), to get people aware. Once you have their attention then explain whats been going on.
The unionists hate the internet as they, as yet, don’t control of it, unlike tv/radio/papers
Those that voted No last year, either thought that a) they are already well served with the present arrangement or b) actually believed that a vow had been made and changes for the better would come along, while retaining the union
That’s the target audience who must be shown that a) they are not actually well served by the present arrangement and b) the vow was a complete con and that the crap that Scotland will have the ‘most powerful’ parliament in the western world is (as we know) complete and utter pish
Sometimes I think I should just go back to South Africa, at least the ANC make no pretence about ripping you off. F@ck all tories
galamcennalath says:
10 November, 2015 at 11:39 am
Anybody know what Candy Crush level Murray has reached?
I understand he is STILL trying to figure out how to switch his phone ON Gala. 😀
What you must understand here is that oor wee Ian is NOT genetically programmed to hold such high office as Shadow S******h Office minister. He was de-chipped before last May’s election! 😀
Lest we forget how nasty, underhanded, loathesome, self centred, egotistical the Tories are here is a tweet from Mhari Black from last night.
Mundell has confirmed to me that there is NO guarantee that the Tories will not take back any top-up made to benefits by Scot Gov @theSNP
In other words what ever top up the S******h government gives to those in NEED Ozzy Osborne and Iain Drunken Spliff will begin to look at ways to recoup this money from the recipients!
Adam Tomkins ?@ProfTomkins 13 hrs13 hours ago
#Vowtastic. Congratulations to @DavidMundellDCT for steering the Bill through. Now over to Lords Dunlop and Keen http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34760508 …
Scotland bill author not exactly clear why theyre so UKOK happy today either. Red tories say spend money from the magi money tree gooder and blue toryboys like Prof Smirky up there say ha ha, we gotcha.
Confusing times but where to got for UKOK enlightenment.
Re Red rosette at the door, that would be a laugh, lived in my house for over 21 years!! Have never had any of these scumbags at my door and if they did appear will have the biggest laugh when they get told to shift there backside for vagrancy!!
Should ANYONE be in ANY doubt about who voted FOR and who voted AGAINST the devolution of working tax credit and child tax credit to the S******h government then I think you can find the answer here. 😉
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm151109/debtext/151109-0005.htm
As I read last night the RED Tories were not required to vote AGAINST this amendment they could have adopted their usual stance on all things S******h … ABSTAIN! 😀
Anyone else noticing that UKOK Parties’ members, supporters and political commenters have been chipped to use a variation of the word ‘grievance’ in their anti-SNP comments.
Definitely clones.
Whenever a labour or Tory politician makes demands on the Scottish Government to use its new powers to mitigate cuts to, for example welfare.
Then make sure you hammer home the message so that make sure every one knows what the consequences of that would be.
And that is any money the Scottish Government raised in tax to mitigate the cuts to tax credits, then the same amount of money would will be cut from the Scottish Government’s budget by Westminster, under the no detriment clause.
No one in Scotland in receipt of state benefits, whether it is working tax credits etc will be allowed to be better off than their counter parts in England.
Anyone seen any comment by our mighty trade unions regarding the non devolution of trade union laws / employment ?
In fact anyone seen any comment by our mighty trade unions regarding Ian Murray voting with the Tories?
Anything been said from Labour’s Holyrood pack about their WM mates denying control of Tax Credits?
Kezia is going to find that a hard one to explain away after last week’s mad mitigation proposals.
Perhaps Labour Holyrood and Labour London have stopped communicating?
@Edward
Yep. I appreciate what you’re saying. I’ll be canvassing for the SNP, and I’ll be asking a lot of people what they think about what labour have done here. And I’ll also be doing this for indyref2 whenever that happens. Even if it’s 10 years from now. What happened yesterday was a landmark moment.
Along with wings, we do, as you say, have social media, and were going to have to keep reminding people what’s happened. With half the country supporting Indy we have a good base. I just want labour gone from Scotland now. If one of their canvasers ever turns up at my door, I’ll have plenty of words to say to them.
@Edward
Yep. I appreciate what you’re saying. I’ll be canvassing for the SNP, and I’ll be asking a lot of people what they think about what labour have done here. And I’ll also be doing this for indyref2 whenever that happens. Even if it’s 10 years from now. What happened yesterday was a landmark moment.
Along with Wings and the other sies, we do, as you say, have social media, and we’re going to have to use it to keep reminding people what’s happened. With half the country supporting Indy we have a good base. I just want labour gone from Scotland now. They’re not even funny any more. If one of their canvasers ever turns up at my door, I’ll have plenty of words to say to them.
I honestly believe the some of the SNP success at the general election was due to voter guilt for being timid and not voting for independence.
The Vow delivered in full is salt rubbed into the wounds of those timid voters.
This has got to raise the percentage wanting independence now.
Fingers crossed.
Aide memoire – yesterday was ‘9/11’ UK-style.
Sorry for the double post. I lost it somehow before I meant to post then hit back and found it again. Flippin tablet is a nightmare to use.
@Swami
Here’s the thing about grievance. Sometimes there is one to answer and in the case of the Scotland Bill debates and ongoing austerity measures enacted against a country that unanimously voted to reject them, I’d say there’s a whopper to be getting on with.
So if some wag decides to use such a line against you simply state the obvious to the moron.
Hell YES, I’ve got a fecking grievance.
“One of the most powerful devolved parliaments in the world.”
Really? This phrase is beginning to bug me.
As far as I know, and in these matters that’s not very far, all of the 50 US states have more powers than we’re getting. Does anyone know about Canadian provinces, German lände, Australian states, Spanish autonomías or any other federal systems? I’d love to be able to compare their powers with our new ones.
I wonder how many devolved states would see their central funding cut as they raised their local taxes.
@AllyPally
Good point mate. I’d like to see a definitive list of all these “devolved states”.
In watching this political pantomime last night I had a thought, or rather a feeling, this feeling crystallized on listening to the discussion on BBC call Kaye this morning. Basically my view is one of a line being crossed, but so subtlety it was ignored by even those of us who have great interest in the political discourse happening in Scotland today, it was evident to me at least, that the Labour caller didn’t understand the Rubicon had just been crossed, neither did the unionist MP’s in Westminster either.
If I could explain, I am not talking of the apparent us and them, which sees the Unionist camps Labour Liberal and Conservative morphing into some sort of Cerberus, guarding the union against the threat posed by the SNP and us horrible vile separatists.
I am referring to the fledgling nation of Scott’s, Fledgling due to the nation state not as a physical entity but made up of the commonweal having only recently the self awareness or more properly an awakening, this I believe happed as a result of the inconclusiveness of the referendum and the discourse that took place in homes, workplaces and the streets of Scotland. Old certainties and gods were debunked, new ways and hopes were raised. The Unionist camp realised this, that’s why the “get back in your box” argument didn’t work and we got the last minute vow, and you see how that worked out. The promises made in haste were as effectual as two lovers in a tryst one promising to be careful, nine months later we have the truth.
This consciousness this awakening is accepted as just how we are, it is a road travelled in the past for us. However our fellow Scots have been in a sense kept in a false consciousness by the illusion of a nation “Britannia” that exists metaphysically, a union built on so called shared history, but this shared history including the war years cannot make us more Brit, any more than the shared war history makes us more French.
The unionist parties have held us looking in isolation at each step of the journey without understanding the social and cultural changes taking place as agents of change. I believe a paradigm shift has occurred, a shift as pronounced as any in the history of Scotland.
Thomas Kuhn who popularised the concept of “paradigm shift” stated that advancement is not evolutionary, but rather is a “series of peaceful interludes punctuated by intellectual revolutions”, where one conceptual world view is replaced by another.
For example it is common currency today to describe both camps as unionist and nationalist, 10 years ago if you stated that in reference to Scotland you would be thought on the lunatic fringe or referring to Ireland, now even mainstream politicians refer to themselves as such.
The Scotland Act, born either as a trap or a cure is only a diversion, a stop gap in the road to the birth of our new Nation, in effect the union is over, its death rattle blinding us to that truth.
In conclusion can I quote the father of the Paradigm shift concept “awareness is prerequisite to all acceptable changes of theory” . It all begins in the mind of the person. What we perceive, whether normal or metanormal, conscious or unconscious, is subject to the limitations and distortions produced by our inherited and socially conditional nature. However, we are not restricted by this for we can change. We are moving at an accelerated rate of speed and our state of consciousness is transforming and transcending. Many are awakening as our conscious awareness expands.
@AllyPally
You asked:
” Does anyone know about Canadian provinces, German lände, Australian states, Spanish autonomías or any other federal systems? I’d love to be able to compare their powers with our new ones.”
A good place to start is to google with “Asymmetric federalism”:
e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_federalism
O/T Slightly.
Just watched Scottish news on the EBC (yeah I know, I know, but someone has to do it.) Police call handling SNP bad, Carmichael, more SNP bad, Land reform SNP bad
Not a peep of the crap that went on in the HoC last night.
What a surprise not.
I return to these pages with a heavy heavy heart. ;(
It has come to my attention that S******d is in for some extremely unwelcome news. 😉
http://www.scottishenergynews.com/bp-confirms-discovery-of-new-150m-a-year-north-sea-oil-field/
I have only one thing to say about this utterly devastating news folks. 😉
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RIgs3eygo
What is the point in all this phony debating in the house We will never win any vote in it.The more this farcical nonsense goes on the nearer the call for UDI,especially now when Westminster have said we cannot decide when to hold a referendum.Surly despite that rule it is illegal to impose.
Capella says:
10 November, 2015 at 11:47 am
What a telling picture. Our three Unionist MPs are busy. One is presenting a sham bill. One is playing with his smart phone and the third is in court.
That sir, is the best piece of political commentary I have read for some time…..
#still chuckling
The Tories and Labour voting together on tax credits was the one compensation on an otherwise predictable anti-climax. Mundell fools no one that Smith was delivered. The Crown Estate matter immediately shows him up for the liar that he is.
However, Labour were all over the place last night and they have no option but to spin like tops. It will do they them no good. They voted with the Tories again and that is that.
@ Lesley-Anne says at 1:50 pm ”I return to these pages with a heavy heavy heart. It has come to my attention that S******d is in for some extremely unwelcome news.
http://www.scottishenergynews.com/bp-confirms-discovery-of-new-150m-a-year-north-sea-oil-field/
I have only one thing to say about this utterly devastating news folks.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RIgs3eygo
Lesley-Anne thanks for imparting some good news and giving us a much needed laugh. We’ll await the CorpMedia passing this information on to their readers / viewers.
@ Molly says at 1:12 pm ”Anyone seen any comment by our mighty trade unions regarding the non devolution of trade union laws / employment? In fact anyone seen any comment by our mighty trade unions regarding Ian Murray voting with the Tories?”
Just what I was thinking about Molly. Nothing but ‘spin’ or ‘distractions’ on CorpMedia and no statement as yet from the Unions. It’ll be interesting to hear, or not, their views on this.
Frank Wright says:
e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_federalism
Very interesting. Here are a couple of extracts implying devo ain’t been maxed nor anything like it …
“Quebec operates its own pension plan, while the other nine provinces are covered by the federal/provincial Canada Pension Plan. Quebec has extensive authority over employment and immigration issues within its borders”
“[Italy] They keep between 60% (Friuli-Venezia Giulia) and 100% (Sicily) of all taxes and decide how to spend the revenues”
Nicola in Westminster right now. Would love to be a fly on the wall at this meeting
Angus Robertson ?@AngusRobertson · 13m13 minutes ago
Great to welcome First Minister @NicolaSturgeon to @theSNP Westminster Group meeting
It’s almost as if they think, ‘We can do whatever we like to Scotland, there’s nothing they can do about it.’
I feel worse today than I did on 19 September 2014 and that is saying something.
Holyrood elections next stop, two votes SNP, unless of course there is a by-election in Orkney & Shetland first.
@jmnarlene, Macart
““After last night, I’m so looking forward to the first red rosette of Spring to come knocking on my door. I want the satisfaction of looking them in the eye as I close the door slowly, but firmly in their face without saying a word.”
I don’t think I could haud ma tongue.”
A simple “Good luck with that.” as you close the door should suffice.
Labour holding two different positions at the same time. Why is anyone surprised by this?
Nana says:
“Nicola in Westminster”
Well, I hope she gives a robust public response to yesterday’s fiasco.
Get those conversations going.Tell folk you’re seriously hacked off that Labour voted with the Tories again.Every day.
Yes Pinocchio of course Ian Murray is speaking the truth!
1 Scottish Labour MP, the only Scottish Labour MP, has more power in the Westminster parliament the all the 56 SNP MPs. After all, he is the Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland and as we all know, The real Secretary of State for Scotland, that solitary Tory has far more say than all the rest of the democratically elected MPs for Scotland.
We can leave Carmichael out of just now, because he is busy this week defending himself in court for lying to the electorate.
@Itchybiscuit
“When the street stalls and the canvassing begin in Govan next year”
No need to wait – they’ve already started. https://www.facebook.com/GlasgowPollokSNP/
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/westminsters-devo-fail-is-an-economic-and-constitutional-timebomb/
“…. a devolution referendum, two Scotland Acts, two Commissions (Calman and Smith), a close run independence referendum, the Vow and multiple promises of more powers there are no plans whatsoever to give the Scottish Parliament full control over any of the big five taxes we could use to restructure our economy”
Even optimistically, I don’t think Scotland is anywhere near DevoHalfway.
@Petra
Not “more” oil, things just keep getting worse
more worrying news about the oil find at Vorlich/Marconi field, it is less than 30 n miles **north** (i.e. the Scots side) of the 1999 new boundary set by Dewar and chums on the eve of the 1999 devolved parliament.
How will we cope.
Reporting Scotland at it again earlier with a gross distortion of the facts – “Police Scotland took three days to respond to a report of a fatal crash”. Do they think we are idiots? The initial call was to the non-emergency 101 number and it was to report a car off the road or words to that effect.
What a bunch of lying bastards!!!
My word. You’d think that the Labour Party actually wanted the people of Scotland to suffer – not just the people who voted SNP in May’s General Election, but the people who voted for them, too.
Has Labour decided that there’s no point in trying to win back support in Scotland? If so, then Kezia and the other Labour MSPs are surplus to requirements – they may as well pack up and leave Holyrood now…
It’s Time for the Rev to create a small poster with a few facts we could share with all our contacts on Facebook, all our contacts could share also and so on..
If the BBC/STV/Papers etc. will not tell the truth then it’s up to us to tell everyone
“”Capella says:
10 November, 2015 at 11:47 am
What a telling picture. Our three Unionist MPs are busy. One is presenting a sham bill. One is playing with his smart phone and the third is in court.””
The one with the smartphone is maybe trying to see if some of its smartness will rub off on him. Lets not burst his bubble on that one.
I don’t think there’s enough brasso available in Scotland for polishing some brass necks.
https://twitter.com/RSimpsonMSP/status/664066384045940736
@Chic
“A simple “Good luck with that.” as you close the door should suffice.”
I think any such unfortunate may be able to tell that I’m not being entirely honest with the sentiment. 🙂
Yeah we should get together and compile a (long) list of countries whose Parliaments are more ‘devolved’ than (forthcoming) Scotland. Have the list or information at the ready to pass on to others. Circulate it on Facebook and Twitter. Plaster it all over placards. Outline on leaflets.
Carmichael is standing in Court because he basically lied to the Electorate / Country. Mundell and Murray are telling the Scots that Scotland will be the most powerfully, devolved country in the World (although I’ve noticed recently that it’s changed to ‘one of’). THEY are LYING through their teeth in an attempt to dupe the Scots (once again) in relation to one of the most profound and far-reaching issues of our time and should be facing Court proceedings too.
Weegingerdug has outlined in ‘Nectar is Mince’ …. ”Any sensible definition of federalism would have a sensible answer to the Gagauzia Question. That’s the question – how come an autonomous territory of 140,000 people in the poorest corner of Moldova, the poorest country in Europe, can have their own national TV network but Scotland can’t?
Any sensible answer to the question why income tax can be devolved at a rate of 15% but not 50% would have to give a sensible answer to the question of why all taxes can’t be devolved. Or at least as many as those enjoyed by a small municipality in properly federal states, never mind a Swiss canton. And these questions would have to be answered in language everyone can grasp, without resorting to latinate phrases that have no appreciable meaning. That’s not going to happen.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagauzia
Weegingerdug’s latest: Brilliant as usual.
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/the-fog-of-union/
BREAKING NEWS – IAN MURRAY JOINS YES CAMPAIGN
Who would have thought we would see the day when Ian Murray would take to social media to publish the memorable words of Kenyon Wright, namely, “We must vote Yes for our children?”
Just a reminder of the house rules:
2. Play the ball, not the man (or woman).
And by all means disagree, by all means disagree forcefully – but argue with people’s views, don’t insult them personally. And that includes calling them “trolls” or implying they’re undercover Unionists.
3. Show other commenters some courtesy.
I look forward to telling every Naw voter that now feels as if they have ben kicked in the heid that we told you so and not to come weeping and whinging to me.
In Scandinavia most units of local government have more financial and economic powers than the Scottish government. In Finland, low paid people pay ONLY local income tax, not national, and the nearest equivalent to Scotland, the autonomous Åland Islands, have much more autonomy than Scotland.
Let’s get going… National YES registry on tour
http://us3.campaign-archive1.com/?u=5dc351d041982367932683c17&id=9274199709&e=6ba7537222
@ galamcennalath says at 2:17 pm …… ”Nana says: “Nicola in Westminster”
”Well, I hope she gives a robust public response to yesterday’s fiasco.”
I hope that she outlines some simple facts that the Scots (and others) can clearly understand, over and above the recent Labour machinations, such as ”The Vow has NOT been fulfilled and Scotland will NOT have the most powerfully devolved Parliament in the World as stated by your cohort at Westminster in line with his ally David Mundell. How can that be when our Parliament is not permanent, broadcasting is not devolved and Westminster will still have control over 70% of Taxes and 85% of Welfare?” Go on to give examples of countries, cantons etc that have much greater powers.
This type of data has to be repeated over and over again by our SNP MSPs as there are many people out there who have no real idea of what’s going on.
Macart says:
“I want the satisfaction of looking them in the eye as I close the door slowly, but firmly in their face without saying a word.”
I sincerely doubt you’ll have the discipline Sam 😀
@Andrew McLean
“Basically my view is one of a line being crossed, but so subtlety it was ignored by even those of us who have great interest in the political discourse happening in Scotland today”
I agree and had the same feeling, but I distilled my observation to:
“I’d say we’ve just moved to a whole new place politically.”
@Petra
“Yeah we should get together and compile a (long) list of countries whose Parliaments are more ‘devolved’ than (forthcoming) Scotland.”
Could someone get a matrix together like the one that is around showing what powers the parties voted for in the Scotland Bill (labour didn’t want us to get any!)
@Iain More
“I look forward to telling every Naw voter that now feels as if they have ben kicked in the heid that we told you so and not to come weeping and whinging to me.”
This is the very time you open your arms and welcome them home. That is how we will win this. (there are of course exceptions to this rule 😉 )
Labour, playing with people’s hopes and fears and playing on what they assume will be people’s lack of detailed knowledge of what’s on the table.
All so they themselves can play politics and spew out slogans about “Grievance”. This is beyond a disgrace.
Well, yes actually, we do have a few grievances.
As Nicola has already said, we need to lead the way. We need to build a massive movement that visibly, demonstrably lets them see how aggrieved we are. There is only one way to show that, as has been seen throughout history, and that’s to take to the streets. We have to build the numbers to make that truly impossible to ignore. Call them the Grievance Marches.
We cannot leave this all to our elected politicians. It is up to us to lead.
Someone who receives tax credits has written here http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/11/10/barnett-and-tax-credits/
a devastating account of Labour’s fresh betrayal. I thoroughly recommend it.
She says, about Labour’s current antics that they
“can only be down to either a failure to understand how Barnett works (which would be rather incredible) or that they are deliberately lying to the Scottish public, exploiting the hardship of people like me in order to make political capital by proposing invalid policies purely to win votes; despite the fact that their failure to account for themselves only creates more distress in those whose hopes they initially raised.”
@ galamcennalath says at 2:17 pm …… ”Nana says: “Nicola in Westminster”
”Well, I hope she gives a robust public response to yesterday’s fiasco.”
I hope that she outlines some simple facts that the Scots (and others) can clearly understand, over and above the recent Labour machinations, such as ”The Vow has NOT been fulfilled and Scotland will NOT have the most powerfully devolved Parliament in the World as stated by your cohort at Westminster in line with his ally David Mundell. How can that be when our Parliament is not permanent, broadcasting is not devolved and Westminster will still have control over 70% of Taxes and 85% of Welfare?” Go on to give examples of countries, cantons etc that have much greater powers.
This type of data has to be repeated over and over again by our SNP MSPs as there are many people out there who have no real idea of what’s going on.
@ Nana says at 3:10 pm ”I don’t think there’s enough brasso available in Scotland for polishing some brass necks.”
https://twitter.com/RSimpsonMSP/status/664066384045940736
Agree Nana but some (many) brilliant rejoinders. So many Scots on the ball now!
This is nothing more than a farcical devolution of so called power. Anyone with half a brain cell will realise that westminster maybe devolving power but are withholding the tools to implement these powers. Power devolved is power retained. Look no further than the old empire and what was done to try and control these pesky natives.
This is a political trap for the SNP and not a very subtle one at that. Will be very interesting to see how they handle it. I am minded to reject the bill and let the full cuts hit Scotland. This will if nothing else focus the minds of the people of Scotland and the way that westminster treat our nation and the people it.
I am in my seventieth year and my greatest wish is for the people of Scotland to get off their knees, waken up and look what is going on around you. How much more of this crap are you going to put up with before you realise we can prosper as a fully independent country.
One thing is certain in an independent country we will not get everything right we will make mistakes but they will be OUR mistakes and not ones imposed on us by a hostile foreign government who want nothing more than to bleed us dry.
Ian Murray has yet to learn that simply saying something will not make it true no matter how many ties you say it or insist uponit. What he has yet to learn is that it is not for Ian Murray or any other politician to tell Scots when the Vow has been delivered. It is for us, the people, to tell them when it has been delivered. Why can’t these idiots understand that simple truth?
The Vow: A Promise Broken
http://tinyurl.com/p5oryrc
Off topic
My most recent argument with a Naw bag revolved around pensions. He wanted to moan about immigrants and the EU but I wasn’t in the mood for having any of his BS.
Not since he was operating under the delusion that pensions would be safe within the corrupt UK. He was less than tolerant when I told him that he wasn’t even aware that his Brit State pension age had been raised to 67 since he hadn’t had the letter yet, or so he claimed.
I further rubbed salt in his festering pustulating Unionist wounds by telling him that he would be getting less in real terms than his Naw bag voting mither and fether even though he had paid infinitely more into the system than any of the present Naw bag voting coffin dodging fearties.
I then rubbed his nose in acid when I pointed out he had probably paid more into the system than his Naw voting and yacht owning neighbour who was always crowing about his accounts in various Brit offshore tax dodging havens.
Sympathy and tolerance I have none left! At that point he left the pub.
I think we need a wee leaflet to give to labour members highlighting how Westminster has betrayed them
We need them to know and believe
Which one of those three up there said, that the three remaining Unionist politicians are representing the other 50% who didn’t vote SNP in May?
Does that mean, the Tories wi there 37% in the GE do not speak for the remaining 63% of the electorate in the rest of the UK, who voted for other parties?
I assumed the way our ‘democracy’ worked was that whoever gained the most seats in the UK parliament had to govern in the best interests of all who reside in the 4 countries.
That’s how it works in our devolved parliament too.
The 56 SNP MP’s in WM represent all the constituents of the wards that they successfully and democratically won in Scotland.
They, people like Costa are the ones attempting to cause divisiveness by the conflating of the referendum result with the GE result in Scotland. A classic ‘divide and conquer’ manoeuvre with this rhetoric.
Putting into question the legitimacy of the SNP MP’s credentials as representative of all Scotland’s electorate. In an attempt to create a false narrative of division within Scotland and stoke up grievance on behalf of the No voters.
We were voting for the SNP before the referendum ergo they are the current SG government. The SNP has a mandate, and we vote on that and more people tick the box than those who do not, and that’s how it works.
They would incite ‘civil’ war rather than give us what they promised before the 18th Septermber. And I believe they are attempting to stoke serious division with this contorted rhetoric.
Bastards.
Angus Robertson had just finished speaking to BBC news on how SNP will be voting on the Sunday trading Bill.
10 mins later, breaking news, Downing St say they will delay voting on Sunday trading to continue “talks”.
This will all change when EVEL is law.
hey you know maybe we are going about this the wrong way,why dont we just say to the Americans they can have the oil in exchange for our independence,i am sure it would not be long before westminster was pressured into freeing us,and its not like we need the oil since we have never had any of it anyway,we could put in a condition that all steel working must be done in Scotland,saving the steel industry.
Maybe appealing to the neo liberal sense of greed could be a winner,i am sure the Americans would drop England like a hot potato in the chance to get its hands on the biggest oil field in Europe without having to bomb the crap out the country that has it.
The more gullible and stupid among us still go on about Scots being “sovereign”.
If we are “sovereign”, it is high time we started showing it.
The only way to show it is a Ghandi style independence movement. But we don’t have the guts for that.
We might be independent in another 300 years.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics
So that’s that then! Even rancid The Graun aren’t going to report the UKOK epoch making Scotland bill shyste last night. Makes a change from their usual sneery lies but even so, a new low for the biggest hypocrites in teamGB.
We will get a flavour of BBC Scotland’s priorities (and those of STV) when we see and hear coverage of fact that Ian Murray and Labour backed the Tories to prevent tax credits being devolved on main TV news programmes this evening.
Although judging from Radio Scotland more coverage will be given to a Shakespeare extravaganza in Scotland next April to celebrate 400 years of shared history and culture dating back to before 1603 and 107 and this in the run up to Scottish elections.
Okay not the correct thread…but it’s aw one. Still raging.
I was quite sickened by Ian Murray’s performance last night. It sounded like Mundell had written his script. Perhaps he did.
Rock: “The only way to show it is a Ghandi style independence movement.”
Erm no.
We do not have 70 million followers behind us demanding independence against a total of 750,000 colonial English settlers and rulers living thousands of miles away from their natural home and feeling the heat.
The labour party is the first and key line of defence of the union. The establishment know that and it is why the BBC in Scotland is working hand in sticky hand with them. They are a team.
We need to scrutinise the behaviour of labour in order to wipe them out but there has to be an end to the ‘what happened to the labour party?’ and ‘can they change?’ and ‘Corbyn is a decent man’ tripe. The labour party – including our Jeremy – really are and for 50 years have been the incompetent exploiters that we see today. They didn’t change, the rest of us did.
@ Rock
Scotland will be a historical notion in 30 years time if we are not Independent soon.
@ Jack Murphy says at 2:19 pm …. ”The Scotland Bill. House of Commons,yesterday the 9th. November 2015. Parliament TV. Archived.
The Bill now goes at some time in the future, to the House of Unelected Barons and Baronesses, [including approx 100 LibDems!!!] for approval,amendments or whatever.
Begins approx at 16:52:23 with an intro by oor Secretary of State for Scotland Mr F Mundell MP. Debate lasts just a few hours,but I’d recommend viewing Tommy Sheppard’s MP Edinburgh East speech at 18:12:57.
Just click on the relevant times in the right hand scroll.
http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/00f1d9c4-9392-4045-bb98-1aaf04cf041f?in=16:40:06
WELL worth reposting on this thread.
@x_sticks
Mmmm. Well its either silence or something brutal and short. I’ll see how I feel in May. 😉
That Welsh guy is a part of the reason Plaid Cymru don’t do as well as otherwise they might. The Welsh Labour Party have been known quite often to oppose the UK party, or threaten to, to get some action. Whereas Scottish Labour just meekly do as they’re told. Prime example highlighted in this article being Ian Murray who I used to have some hope for. Not any more, this was his chance and he blew it big time.
Generally Wales do even worse out of the Union than Scotland, but that’s because their economy being worse means the UK doesn’t have to go out of its way at all to try to keep it in the Union. A very sad and depressing thing. At least we do have the chance of Indy, when we take it. My heart goes out to Wales, more than to us in Scotland. They’re stuck.
A prime example is HS2 where Westminster at least has to talk the talk about bringing it to Scotland, whereas Wales is told that Birmingham in England is their hub, that’s all they’ll ever get.
In case anyone was in any doubt, last night proved beyond doubt that the Tory and Labour definition of devolve is not the SNP one of transfer of power (verb with object) but its other meaning – ‘pass into a different state, especially a worse one’ (verb with no object).
The punishment of Scotland continues. Such contempt is sickening.
1. Petra says:
10 November, 2015 at 3:48 pm
“”This type of data has to be repeated over and over again by our SNP MSPs as there are many people out there who have no real idea of what’s going on.””
I would go further and say it has to be repeated by all of us on whatever forum is available and that includes things like the Herald on-line.
I know people rail against the MSM, the Corporate Media etc but if, through their on-line comments section, we are given an opportunity to get the facts to a wider audience we should take it. If you do not engage with NO voters in whatever forum is available then how do you change their minds?
There are a lot of people read the Herald on-line AND the comments on the stories, when comments are allowed, but may not be amongst those who post regularly. They also become aware of the stories that are not open for comments and in this way become aware of how the press is manipulating the news because they realise that if comments were allowed a completely different picture would emerge.
It is also a route to making people more aware of how widespread this manipulation has become across the MSM . If people see verifiable facts and data posted in response to articles in the Herald then that becomes something that will make them look askance at other news sources when they see the same ‘take’ on a story being expressed across the whole MSM.
It makes them more aware of the sins of omission and commission indulged in by the MSM and how partial- in every sense of the word – their reports are.
I see some cunt called Will Podmore deigns to turn up on this site after ladt night, whining about people throwing insults.
Podmore – Fuck off.
Thank you no voters, the hardship and misery coming your way from UK Gov is well deserved.
Be prepared with leaflets and arguments
Labour campaigning on the streets on Tax Credits this SAturday
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/campaigns/entry/tax-credit-campaign
Podmore – Fuck off with knobs on!
Anyway, election poster in big letters, with a little supporting info, date and consequences underneath:
“Labour voted against devolving Tax Credits to Scotland.”.
Perhaps it should be a “sticky” on Wings, at the top somewhere.
O/t looks like the Rev’s Poll is up and running on Panelbase 🙂
There;s no point in discussing anything but what was promised and the “Vow” only promised one thing clearly: It promised that the Scottish Parliament would have PERMANENT status. The implications of that promise would be that the the Scottish Parliament had sovereign power over those issues within its remit.
As the Parliament has nor been made permanent, then the vow has not been delivered.
Simple.
@Iain More says:
10 November, 2015 at 3:53 pm
Re the Nawbag and pensions – you should also have reminded him only around 37% of pensioners will be getting the full flat-rate ‘new’ state pension in 2016.
@galamcennalath says: 10 November, 2015 at 11:39 am:
“Anybody know what Candy Crush level Murray has reached?”
Nah! He is still looking for how to get it to run. Give the guy a break, after all he has just discovered how to switch the damned thing on. What’s more he thinks he still has to plug o a phone-line socket to get connected.
O/T
Over on ‘The Herald’ (someone has to keep an eye on their Unionist bullflop) it is being reported that when the queen was tapping Simon Hughes on the shoulder with a very long sword, their chat turned to the chages in Westminster to which Brenda said, “Yes, there are many more Scots”.
FFS!!!
@Will Podmore
Yes, those are the house rules, and good ones too.
However, many probably all of the regular posters on this website knew fine what was going to happen in the Scotland Act debate yesterday, but it was no less of a shock when it actually happened, as far as I’m concerned anyway.
Which means yesterday and today, are not good days to be looking for sweetness and light from even posters who are normally quite considerate and courteous.
Now fuck off 🙂
@ Sinky says at 4:32 pm ”Be prepared with leaflets and arguments. Labour campaigning on the streets on Tax Credits this SAturday
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/campaigns/entry/tax-credit-campaign
Sinky don’t you think this will be cancelled now? And if so they’ve probably just wasted a load of money printing off their ‘out of date’ data. Add that to the deficit SLab already have …. their ‘black hole’ ….. the Party that want’s to run Scotland can’t even balance its own books.
@ Macart” …looking them in the eye as I close the door slowly, but firmly in their face without saying a word.”
@jimnarlene says: 10 November, 2015 at 12:09 pm
“I don’t think I could haud ma tongue.”
Noo! Chaps an fella cairters, ye maun dae yer bit fir the pairty. It’s muckle hard, bit the thing tae dae is tae keep the buggers talkin fir iz lang iz ye kin. That stoaps thaim convertin ither biddies.
Grouse Beater,
“We do not have 70 million followers behind us demanding independence against a total of 750,000 colonial English settlers and rulers living thousands of miles away from their natural home and feeling the heat.”
Westmister from where we are ruled is a million miles away as we witnessed yesterday.
We have our own share of colonial settlers who voted to keep us as a colony.
We cannot be “sovereign” and a colony at the same time.
scotspine,
“Scotland will be a historical notion in 30 years time if we are not Independent soon.”
True. That is why we need a Ghandi style movement now. Sadly we don’t have the guts for that.
Our SNP representatives are constrained to play according to the establishment’s rules.
It is for us to do something practical about it.
Like a massive rally where those of us who still have their Pravda GB licences thow them into the Clyde.
@Lesley-Anne says: 10 November, 2015 at 12:33 pm:
“I have just read over on Facebook that Lindsay Jarrett has left hospital! :D”
That’s great news on this muckle driech and drizzlie day, Lesley-Anne, and I sorely needed cheering up.
Edward says:
10 November, 2015 at 12:35 pm
What needs to happen is to drop short clips of the likes of Alberto Costa doing his anti Scotland stuff, onto social media (Facebook and Twitter), to get people aware. Once you have their attention then explain whats been going on.
Ruby replies
People could also post on The Scotsman, The Herald, The Evening News, The Daily Record and every available online forum but taking care not to get caught up in any futile UniTroll flamebait.
Just post the info and run. Basically just be an information distributing robot.
@Robert Peffers
Heh, I know the drill Robert, never you fear. Simply looking for a bit of venting and failing miserably.
I should actually feel pleased in that Westminster has behaved as exactly as predicted. I simply can’t find it in me though. A lot of folk are going suffer in the meantime as Westminster’s farce takes shape.
Yes or No voter doesn’t matter at this point. Its just people being used and abused by their own government for political and corporate advantage. We’re all going to feel the effects of that bear trap bill. The monsters who put it together knew what they were doing and the carnage its going to wreak, even amongst those who supported the union.
That’s a whole new level of grim.
Rock
Our fight can indeed seem hopeless at times, in the face the ‘facts’ presented to the people, by Whitehall and their puppets. Just look how far we have come though, in only the last few years.
The Establishment will through everything they can at Scotland, in order to maintain a society based on traditions that were laid down when slavery was the done thing.
Society, as with any organism, is driven by evolutionary forces. Not even BBC Labour in Scotland can hope to prevail against time and nature.
Re. the SNP playing by the rules. What do you expect, they are a main-stream political party. The game has to be played before some folk will figure out it’s rigged against Scotland.
Rock,
The problem is, the media suppress what is happening and feed the masses with squirrel pointing white.
Until we get the reality of what is going on out there, there ain’t going to be a Ghandi style rising.
Well here is a cheek, the ultimate in hypocricy.
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/campaigns/entry/tax-credit-campaign
Apologies for posting that from SLabour. I now notice it had already been posted.
For anyone interested
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/campaigns/entry/tax-credit-campaign …
@Ruby
“People could also post on The Scotsman, The Herald, The Evening News, The Daily Record and every available online forum but taking care not to get caught up in any futile UniTroll flamebait.
Just post the info and run. Basically just be an information distributing robot.”
Star comment.
‘Sir Edward Leigh:
Could it just be that the Tory right, as the hon. Gentleman describes it, and the present Labour shadow Chancellor both recognise that the one way to defeat nationalism is to have a real Parliament in Scotland with full power over what it taxes and spends and that at that stage the SNP will have to take responsibility for its own actions? It will become a grown-up political party and we will start to defeat it in Scotland.’
I was nearly fooled in this Tory was a good guy!
He has zero interest in the people of Scotland. This is just another creepy control freak!
If that was to go ahead, as SLabour have promulgated, would that not be an excellent opportunity to challenge these morons in public and in full view of the public?
Hi James Caithness.
This is what I’ve posted on 4 Facebook pages…
—————————————————-
On Saturday, 14th November, the Labour Party (Scotlandshire Branch) will be on the streets, all over Scotland.
Here’s what it says on their web site:-
“Tax Credits
On Saturday the 14th of November we will be taking to the streets to campaign against the Tory Government’s tax credit cut.”
For example, they will be at the dragon statue in Dundee’s High Street, between 12 and 2.
All the venues and times are at the link below.
I’d suggest that as many people as possible should make their way to those Labour campaigners, wherever, and simply ask,
“If you want a Scottish Government to mitigate the proposed Tax and Child Credit cuts, why did you vote with the Tories on Monday evening, to stop responsibility for Tax and Child Credits being devolved to the Scottish Parliament?”
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/campaigns/entry/tax-credit-campaign#sthash.yNsFiikJ.dpuf
@AllyPally says: 10 November, 2015 at 1:28 pm:
” … I’d love to be able to compare their powers with our new ones.”
Aye! And I’d bet that if you actually asked those spouting such vomit they’d not know either.
This lot of virtual unionist zombies pick-up such unionist propaganda phrases like dogs pick up fleas. Then they pass them on to others in the same manner.
Proud Cybernat says:
10 November, 2015 at 5:03 pm
O/T
Over on ‘The Herald’ (someone has to keep an eye on their Unionist bullflop) it is being reported that when the queen was tapping Simon Hughes on the shoulder with a very long sword, their chat turned to the chages in Westminster to which Brenda said, “Yes, there are many more Scots”.
FFS!!!
Haha, that’s hilarious. Even the Queen didn’t perceive the previous lot as actual Scots standing up for Scotland !!
X sticks
I don’t mean political, I mean cultural, a change in the national identity, an identification of Scotland as our nation and Britain as a cultural abomination. A guest who stayed far to long and is oblivious to our wish to rid ourselffs of his troublesome presence!
It’s time for Labour Party members in Scotland to decide, are you with us or are you forever to be an increasing irrelevance?
@One_Scot says: 10 November, 2015 at 2:08 pm:
“It’s almost as if they think, ‘We can do whatever we like to Scotland, there’s nothing they can do about it.”
And you imagine they don’t think that? There’s literally many hundreds of years of evidence that says they do indeed think that.
Brian Doonthetoon – interesting that Slab are planning one of their pretendy stop the tax gigs at the same place and time as the SNP are having their street stall – Leith Kirkgate, 11-1.00, Sat 14/11. Coincidence or brass neck?
BDT
Cowdenbeath high st at 1pm it is then. Thanks for that 😉
I asked Alex Salmond in front of a thousand people if Mr Murray Foote had broken the 2013 referendum act by allowing the vow to be published . He replied yes. I ask the rev and all wingers why has Mr Foote not been charged?
Have any of you complained to the police about an act of law being blatantly broken?
Snp should refuse to implement any of these so called ‘powers’. And let austerity cuts bite. That will soon sway the minds of the ‘better togethers’ who believed the lies of the ‘vow’.
Hi Onwards.
You typed,
“Haha, that’s hilarious. Even the Queen didn’t perceive the previous lot as actual Scots standing up for Scotland !!”
I let my boss see that line in the article this afternoon, and even he got it right away! The previous Labour Scottish MP’s weren’t regarded as ‘Scots’. Scratchy head time…
Lesley-Anne says:
10 November, 2015 at 1:50 pm
..It has come to my attention that S******d is in for some extremely unwelcome news. 😉
=============
I think that discovery was from last year.
The Apache one is recent:
https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/91961/apache-makes-significant-discoveries-in-the-uk-north-sea-of-up-to-70million-barrels/
“The Seagull discovery was drilled about 50 miles south of the Forties complex in Block 22/29c and confirmed 672 feet of net oil pay over a 1,092 foot column..
Apache said further appraisal work will continue following the recent acquisition of a multi-azimuth 3D survey.”
672 feet of net pay is normally a major discovery, so this could end up being much bigger than the announced 50-70m recoverable reserves when fully appraised, and should still turn a decent profit per barrel even at the current low oil prices.
@ Ruby says at 6:33 pm ”Sir Edward Leigh: Could it just be that the Tory right, as the hon. Gentleman describes it, and the present Labour shadow Chancellor both recognise that the one way to defeat nationalism is to have a real Parliament in Scotland with full power over what it taxes and spends and that at that stage the SNP will have to take responsibility for its own actions? It will become a grown-up political party and we will start to defeat it in Scotland.’ I was nearly fooled in this Tory was a good guy! He has zero interest in the people of Scotland. This is just another creepy control freak!”
Don’t think so Ruby. I reckon he’s a very smart, more than anything very decent (Unionist) man who can see the wood from the trees.
I have to agree with Petra w/r/t Sir Edward Leigh.
He attends the debates and seems to be a man of principle.Very unusual in that cesspit we call Westminster.
I have more faith in him than in any of the other tories.
Anyone know what happened to the idea of some sort of billboard or poster campaign to circumnavigate the normal media channels. I’d certainly be willing to put my hand in my pocket if I felt we could nail some of the lies that get peddled and the inconvenient truths that a supine media won’t publish.
CameronB Brodie,
“Re. the SNP playing by the rules. What do you expect, they are a main-stream political party. The game has to be played before some folk will figure out it’s rigged against Scotland.”
scotspine,
“Until we get the reality of what is going on out there, there ain’t going to be a Ghandi style rising.”
If after 300 years a majority of people haven’t figured out it’s rigged against Scotland, they never will.
Or rather they are either too stupid or too selfish to want to change the rigged system.
With the SNP playing by Westminster’s rules and with no hope of a Ghandi style movement, we are doomed.
Our 56 SNP MPs are completely powerless. They can’t get a single thing passed at Westminster.
Michael Diamond proposes, “let austerity cuts bite …”
So he would sacrifice Scottish people’s interests in the cause of advancing their interests?