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Not a dry seat in the house

Posted on August 25, 2016 by

This can’t be a good sign.

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140 to “Not a dry seat in the house”

  1. Katie says:

    Hahaha! Spot on!

  2. ephemeraldeception says:

    “I’m really worried..”

    he should be. oops.

  3. lumilumi says:

    Worried about a Labour audience laughing and jeering a Labour leader… while trying to unseat a Labour leader.

    Have these people no sense of irony… or reality?

    Thanks for the chuckle.

  4. schrodingers cat says:

    yup, the cows are coming home to roost

  5. Susan says:

    The SNP must be patting itself on the back for not giving Kezia her first ever job in the Scottish Parliament. 😀

  6. HandandShrimp says:

    He is really worried? Where the feck has he been?

    Kezia took over from the Divine Murphy who took over from Branch office Johann who took over from Killing Fields Grey who possibly took over from Wendy…at this point I am losing track.

  7. blackhack says:

    Och the poor wee soul…..

  8. Bob Mack says:

    Laughing at the twitter feed from the meeting. Apparently Corbyn is blaming the SNP for TTIP and PFI. Ha ha ha ha. This guy is a total tattie who knows absolutely nothing about the politics or policy of Scottish Parties.

  9. Macart says:

    Oh Jeez! 😀 LOL

    That’ll leave a mark.

  10. gedboy says:

    That is the unkindest cut of all, when impromptu laughter greets the passionless praise of a mediocre politician by a principle free one.

  11. Steve Mitchell says:

    Yet again, Labour have no concept of how pathetic they are…when people attending a campaign debate laugh out loud at suggestions that their branch office vote drainer is doing a great job then surely they have to ask themselves that unnerving question “why ?”
    The only reason Owen Smith is defending her is because she supports him….they can share a pair of crutches now and hobble back to their darkened rooms for a period of inward reflection !

  12. findlay farquaharson says:

    imagine the total lack of self respect it must take to accept dugdale as your leader

  13. Andy Borland says:

    That’s because they know her better than you do son!

  14. Bugger (le Panda) says:

    Here is what came up on Youtube after that Owen Smith interlude.

    Maybe a bit more relevant and at least entertaining?

  15. Alex Clark says:

    I don’t care who Labour members elect in this contest.

    A Corbyn victory will likely split Labour and be the end of them.

    A Smith victory will be the end of them in Scotland anyway as they shift ever further right.

    Only the likes of McTernan and Hothersall are reported as seeming to care. That’s why we need not worry who wins. They are far better at destroying the Labour party in Scotland than we could ever be.

  16. Tinto Chiel says:

    There comes a time when you just have admit defeat and abandon resuscitation procedures, surely?

    As I said before, where would BLiS______d and the Ruthtastic Party be without the iron lung of the BBC?

    How long do we have to put up with all this utter shit?


  17. Grouse Beater says:

    I think Labour has is working a very cunning plan.


    Bicker among ourselves, back stab, look as inept and as chaotic as possible, claim Labour can win against the odds, take the slings and arrows that is public reaction, and the electorate will reward our nobility with power.

    Can’t be any other reason for them looking like aging mobsters without a territory.

  18. Rob Outram says:

    Up to their necks in an Egyptian river…

  19. Pooooooor kez will be greetin her wee eyes out tonight over this.

    Perhaps SLAB will now see the light and disband, oh i can dream.

  20. Clootie says:

    …how far we have come!

    The average Scot has more political awareness and skill than the so called leaders of the various Labour sects.

    We are to listen to their pathetic calls to “wait for a Labour victory delivering Utopia” instead of pursuing Independence. They also admit that they cannot work together which leads to a simple summary that we should accept a few decades of Tory rule and decay while we try to get our shit together.

    However what it really means is keep the rotten Union together until it’s our turn to put our snout in the swill.

    …London is the centre of the Universe.

  21. Dougie McPhee says:

    What kind of person could support this bunch of pathetic losers?

  22. Marie Clark says:

    Aye nae wunner folk laughed.
    But I find it infinetly more worrying are the monkeys who started clapping Smith for praising dippity.

    What planet are some of these folk on?

  23. Effijy says:

    Smith is worried about a Labour Party Split, so he, and 180 fellow Labour MP’s, rebel against the party’s leader, who was elected only 9 months ago by over 60% of its membership?

    He then fights in court to split 160,000 new Labour Party
    members, from voting in the new leadership election along with all the other members?

    Smith says Kez is good, that being Kez who took Labour’s 41
    Westminster MPs down to 1.
    Kez who took Labour to 3rd in the Holyrood elections for the first time ever.
    Kez who doesn’t think MSPs rejected by the electorate, should enter Holyrood by the back door, has just come in the back door.

    New Labour and SLAB are a tragic and pathetic joke!

  24. HandandShrimp says:

    Owen’s pitch sounds suspiciously like “vote for me or we take our ball home and form our own party”.

    Not sure that is a great argument but I can’t profess to being able to get into the Labour zeitgeist anymore.

  25. Almannysbunnet says:

    Owen just doesn’t see that they’re not just laughing and booing Kezia. They’re laughing and booing him. What’s his response, he can’t believe people are booing and laughing at the Scottish labour leader. I’m fricking laughing just typing this! You just lost all but one MP in Scotland. You’ve just been beaten into 3rd place in Hollyrood. No wonder people are laughing! He can’t believe we are laughing but will never ask why.
    As far as I’m concerned if both Corbyn and Smith didn’t lose even more votes tonight this performance made a lot of Yessers even more determined to get out of this Union of lying fools.

  26. call me dave says:


    Excellent! 🙂

  27. galamcennalath says:

    I thought …

    – Smith was on the right as a Blairite
    – SLab had lost their left elements in Scotland
    – residual SLab should be on the right, like Kezia

    … so who were in this audience taking the piss out of Smith’s rhetoric? Not a bunch of Blairites. Smith doesn’t seem to have been ‘their man’.

  28. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Duncan Hothersall
    One party, eh?

  29. Alex Clark says:

    Kezia’s days are numbered as leader if tonight’s show is anything to go by. Corbyn is obviously the big favourite to win this contest and that must be bad news for her as a backer of Smith.

    It will be ordinary party members who oust her if it’s going to happen. That is of course if the’re any members left in Scotland after another shambles such as this leadership contest.

  30. Proud Cybernat says:

    Mr Smith. Do yourself a favour, son. Watch:

    Kez – The Blunder Years

    If you ‘think’ Kez is doing a great job after watching that car crash then you are just another delusional Labour careerist. Perhaps you should actually try and ‘think’ (REALLY ‘think’) instead of merely saying you ‘think’.

    We’re not convinced. Not in the least.

  31. Tinto Chiel says:

    Rob Outram 9.29: just got that.

    There’s a distortion in the space/time continuum “where I am” 😛

  32. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Severin McSpanner
    Another sign of the times?

  33. James Westland says:

    Large Butchers Apron behind them in that video. Says it all

  34. lumilumi says:

    We’re witnessing these scenes and having a snigger, but only afterwards we’ll really realise what we’re seeing now. History – as opposed to fleeting political comedy – in the making, over the past few years and over the next few years.

    The political situation in Scotland and the whole of the UK, and Europe has changed so much in the past few years and few months and weeks that it’s difficult to get your head around to it unless you’ve been following it closely, and following grass-roots. Even then it’s a bit mind-boggling.

    At home in my country, I finally felt my strange hobby (following Scots/UK politics) vindicated at Brexit. I’d predicted it, and Scotland IN. All my friends and family in my country could not believe it. One of the times you wish you couldn’t say “I told you so”.

  35. harry mcaye says:

    Coming up to Glasgow and getting a laugh like that on stage, he should be proud. Manys a comedian at the old Glasgow Empire would have killed for that response. At least he didn’t faint like Des O’Connor!

  36. Smallaxe says:

    If only the EBC would show comedy of this calibre,people might
    start paying the licence tax again.Peace,Love and pissing myself. 🙂

  37. Fireproofjim says:

    Editor of the National will be discussing tomorrow’s papers at 10.30 on Sky News.
    Worth a watch.

  38. Jim Mitchell says:

    Who let them Nats in, that’s who they will blame, wonder how the Kez bit will be reported in the media?

  39. heedtracker says:

    Don’t think Dr NO! enjoyed himself much tonight either. Oh well, at least another decade, probably 15 years in the UKOK wilderness. Maybe by 2035, 2040 a new hope will appear and lead them back to No.10, a Blair clone maybe. Red tory Lab governments are a bit like Star Wars movies. Quite a lot every few years, then none for decades, then really crap ones without Scotch cringers like Ewen MacGregor, looking a complete tit.

    Lots of work to do for Pacific Quay twerps too. Hope we’re away by then. Scratch that, we will be away by then:D

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 2h2 hours ago
    ….and the Glasgow #LabourLeadership hustings ends with Jeremy Corbyn reading his speech in a dull mono-tone. No eye contact.
    2 retweets 6 likes

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 3h3 hours ago Glasgow, Scotland
    Jeremy Corbyn & Owen Smith get ready to speak to a “ram-packed” hall.

  40. Tinto Chiel says:

    harry mcaye: remember when you consider JC and OS, the keelie’s response to the Winters Brothers.

    “Aw no! There’s two o’ them!”

  41. heedtracker says:


    Sky Data ?@SkyData 10h10 hours ago
    Ipsos MORI poll of Labour MPs – most impressive parliamentarian:

    Theresa May 35%
    Owen Smith 7%
    Jeremy Corbyn 0%

  42. Alex Clark says:

    Aye Brexit, you would have learned more on here than you would in the Dead Tree press.

    I remember posting on here about how the voters in the N.E. of England were going to vote Leave by a big majority and they did.

    I believed this because I listened and could also see it with my own eyes. Now why did our politicians and press get it so wrong? I guess they don’t get out of London much can be the only answer.

    The cheeky bar stewards accuse us of living in a bubble hahaha.

  43. heedtracker says:

    Fart face had a good night he says.

    Blair McDougall Retweeted
    Owen Smith 2016 ?@owensmith2016 3h
    We are the left in this country – not the nationalists. No deal with the SNP.

  44. Luigi says:

    MPs stabbing your leader in the back is ok, but don’t you plebs dare laugh at your leader.

  45. Petra says:

    What Smith doesn’t seem to get is that millions of people are laughing their heads off, from Land’s End to John O’ Groats, at the whole kit and caboodle known as the Labour Party. It’s finished in its current state. They don’t seem to quite get that either.


    @ Fireproofjim says at 10:23 pm ….. ”Editor of the National will be discussing tomorrow’s papers at 10.30 on Sky News. Worth a watch.”

    Thanks for that.

  46. heedtracker says:

    We are the left in this country – not the nationalists. No deal with the SNP.

    They have to cut the crap and get this sorted out, if they do actually want to get elected. Yesterday rancid The Graun went after JC again with the all new and exciting red tory generation who say stuff like

    Rhea Wolfson youngest and only Scottish member of the NEC told the Guardian: “Younger people who support the SNP and Greens are now going to Corbyn rallies. My frustration is that they see him as a figure of the left rather than of Labour, and we need to change that.”

    So what is old fart face up there on about.

  47. Alex Clark says:


    Labour of the left? The left of what? I would put the current Labour party to the right of Ted Heaths Tory government of the 70’s.

  48. heedtracker says:

    Unlike Dr NO, Libby McSpanner quite liked JC tonight, although as usual no SNP comment allowed, unlike every and any red tory’s can go UKOK nuts in anything rancid Graun does SNP. And no mention of the Kez comedy bit for Graun.

    In Glasgow speech, Corbyn insists no electoral alliance with Scottish National party will happen if he stays Labour leader

  49. Sinky says:

    How are the yoons going to explain how NHS and education in England is in far worse state than in Scotland.

  50. Free Scotland says:

    We in the Labour party can’t stand the sight of each other; we’re not sure what sort of manifesto promises to make because we’re almost certain we could never fulfil them; we’re less clued up about Scotland than Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage; we tend to abstain rather than vote against tory policies which could have a negative effect on the poor or disadvantaged of society. But, hey, we’ve got all the answers needed to pull the wool over the eyes of Scotland’s electorate, so why not vote for us?

    Dream on, Smiffy. And dream on, Corbyn. I wouldn’t vote for either one of you if my life depended on it.

    Corbyn says he’s disappointed that Kez doesn’t appreciate his leadership. He should be thanking his lucky stars for any distance created between himself and Kez.

    Smith expresses surprise that people in Scotland mock Kezia. It’s time he dug out a few youtube clips of “First Minister’s Questions” to get to know his running mate a little better.

  51. Robert Dark says:

    Good god that was amazing!!!

  52. lumilumi says:

    @ Alex Clark 10:31pm (Weren’t you ThePNR before?)

    The Brexit ref, or any ref/election. You’ve got to have your ear to the ground, your antennae out. Forget preconceived ideas and personal quibbles, just listen, feel the weak signals, the mood. Also the not so weak, the blaring obvious signals. Act accordingly.

    The SNP is very much better at this than SLAB or UKLAB. SLAB and UKLAB seem deaf, dumb and blind in this regard. Why would anybody want to vote for such incompetents?

  53. Still Positive. says:

    heedtracker @ 10.39

    Heard Rhea Wolfson on newsnet podcast and she is such a Jeremy Corbyn groupie. Boring as hell.

  54. K1 says:

    He didn’t like that did he…so the audience gets it. That’s the trouble wi Labour…it’s always the ‘audience’ or the ‘voters’ that they attack for their own stupidity. The man’s a lightweight.

  55. Rob Outram says:

    Lol the old ones are the best! Do you think it’d make a good Chris Cairns cartoon? Tinto Chiel @9.52

  56. Capella says:

    The next Labour PM has not yet been born. We must look for signs and portents. Owen Smith seems to be modelling himself on John Smith, minus the wit.
    Was that Kezia standing to the left of the stage?

  57. Ken500 says:

    The pish taking the piss

  58. heedtracker says:

    Alex Clark says:
    25 August, 2016 at 10:45 pm

    This is where its all going seriously wrong for Lab. MacDougal’s just trying it on as usual but the PLP are clearly trying to be nice tory in England. To be fair, UK elections do seem to be won by tory middle England, well they always are, look at Brexit. So red tories in Scotland like Kez have to keep some left pretence going, as they slowly, then quickly, then slowly die. Fact is tory BBC led UK media wont allow JC to win anything. He’s their next Michael Foot, poor old guy.

  59. K1 says:

    Actually if he’d any sense and a smidgeon of intelligence he would’ve known that most of the audience was probably made up of Glasgow SNP supporters who were just there for the patter.

  60. defo says:

    Ooft to the n. Utterly stunning.

    At least we will never have to suffer under this shower, it’s Indy, or left to the cruel vagaries of the nasty Great British bar stewards, for the foreseeable.

    Shouldn’t someone start a crowd fundy thingy, and see if there’s a dignitas type outfit who could do the deed?
    Kinder, all round.

  61. Alex Clark says:


    Yes, previously known as Thepnr. No shame in using your real name, if there was, most of our right wing journalists would be writing under pseudonyms.

    Something daft probably like the name of a tool or blunt instrument.

  62. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Lol the old ones are the best! Do you think it’d make a good Chris Cairns cartoon? Tinto Chiel @9.52”

    Sorry, Rob, I’m busy. Me and Spock are chatting up Penny from Big Bang Theory.

    Mebbes get back to you ramorra 😛

  63. Morgatron says:

    Laugh? I shat myself.

  64. Betty Boop says:

    “Hey, Owen, great news. Kezia Dugdale is supporting you…”

    “Err, who? Never mind, she must be terrific”

    A quick dash to North Britain where it seems the jocks are confused and don’t know their place. They obviously don’t know who Kezia Dugdale is either. Could be because she keeps changing faces.

  65. Effijy says:


    In Glasgow speech, Corbyn insists no electoral alliance with Scottish National party will happen if he stays Labour leader

    “That’s right but they can and they do regularly team up with the Right Wing Extremist Party called the Tories”!

    Labour did the Tory’s dirty work for them in the Scottish Referendum, they teamed one on one Red and Blue Tory to work on the Brexit referendum, and when the Blue Tories want more cuts on the poor, unemployed, the disabled, Red Tories are always available to abstain and let their friends win.

    No way Labour want anything to do with an SNP Party that want to stop floundering austerity and give workers a fair share of the UK ‘s wealth.

    Why SNP are even telling the public the truth!
    This just isn’t politics as England knows it.

    PS Bernard Ponsenby stated that Labour can only gain power in Westminster by beating the SNP in Scotland?
    More obvious lies from STV!

    If every seat in Scotland had gone to Labour in the last General Election, the Tories would still be the largest party in Westminster! Bernie you should get the Bolt!

    UK Media only deal in Lies. If read, listen or watch anything from them, you know it won’t be true!

  66. drawdeaddave says:

    No doubt that will be the excuse “infiltrated by SNP supporters” I would expect that kind of reaction if Smith was addressing an English Labour audience, are we sure it wasn’t a bused in audience or another Labour rent a crowd ?

  67. dakk says:


    Couldn’t believe my ears.

    Watching Sky News and they say on the review of the papers at 11.30 pm will be the consultant editor of Scotland’s new national newspaper the National.

    Roll up,roll up.Should be interesting.

    And there was me this morning slagging off Sky News and that lovely,harmless big tart of a man Eamon Holmes.

    I’ll be interested to hear if Rock tunes in.

  68. mealer says:

    Was Kezia there? If so,it must have been really embarrassing for her.If she wasn’t there,why not? Of course she’d be there.She would surely have hosted the debate and introduced the candidates.She’s the Scottish Labour leader after all.

    Corbyn is a hopeless loser.Smith is absolutely dismal.Ruth should really step into the breach and take on the role of leader.Only she can bring together the red and blue factions of the Tory party.

  69. Oh dear oh dear.
    Tories for two decades, out of Europe, Scotland ‘punished’ by reduced funding by May, Johnson, Hammond, Fox, Rudd, and Davis.; or, Self Determination, and still a member of the EU?
    Van you let me think about it for a millisecond?
    This sham of a Leadership debate Up Here is beyond satire. How many hundreds attended this debacle today?
    No mention anywhere. Wonder why?
    Worry not, Jeremy, Owen, the SNP will never make a deal with such political chameleons. Labour is dying, please somebody tell them.
    Chukka, Yvette, Tristram, Sue, and Tom must be pissing themselves laughing at this bizarre farce.

  70. Gary45% says:

    I think the crowd was probably bussed in from Dan Saf, hence the laughter at Deadwoods name, as the southern purple Tories have no idea who she is.
    Defo not infiltrated by SNP supporters as the laughter would have been a million decibels louder, besides SNP supporters would rather lick wood chip wall paper than listen to the Purples.
    Indy Ref 2 Wooohooooo its coming.

  71. lumilumi says:

    Hey, Alex/Thepnr, I wasn’t criticising, just curious, making sure because your avatar is very familiar to me through years at WoS.

    I think it’s great if you can use your own name here and in other Scots indy contexts. That means you’re really committed. I remember a couple of WoS “flushes” over the years when people came out with their real names.

    I’m not using my real name here because nobody would be able to pronounce or spell it. Also, a work thing. I’m supposed to be neutral in every way, so I’m hiding behind a nic to preserve my livelihood. Scottish independence is not my fight. If it was about my country’s independence, I wouldn’t shy away from using my full name, even if it risked losing my job. As it happens, I don’t have to do that, we’ve been independent for almost 99 years now, ha ha!

  72. Capella says:

    Kremlin would celebrate if Corbyn elected, claims former NATO chief

    Recycling Project Fear. The old ones are the best ones.

  73. Ian Brotherhood says:


    Trainspotting, ‘Traditional Sunday Breakfast’

  74. Inverclyder says:


  75. Jas says:

    Noticed STV spoke to Bob Gillespie Snr at the BliS hustings. No doubt his son, along with his whole hipster entourage, is still a strong SNP-hater. Was at college with one of them. He declared once to one and all how he hated all forms of ‘nationalism’. The irony being that he was an Ibrox season-ticket holder! So then, Union Jack not a nationalist symbol, tick; rousing chorus of Rule Britannia, not in any way a nationalist ditty, tick.

    Makes you wanna primal scream, sometimes.

  76. Robert Peffers says:

    Just heard Mary Lockhart won the Fife By-election with SNP second : –

  77. Sinky says:

    Labour Party shambles continues as their UK Annual Conference is likely to be cancelled as they can’t get a security firm in time to replace GS4.

    Why Owen Smith is laughed at

    “The focus groups also explored areas of choice that do not yet exist in the UK – most specifically the use of direct payments and the ability to choose to go directly to a specialist without first having to see the GP.”

    Well, at least it is clear – direct payments from the public to doctors replacing current NHS services. Smith was promoting straight privatisation. As Head of Policy and Government Relations for Pfizer, Owen Smith was also directly involved in Pfizer’s funding of Blairite right wing entryist group Progress.

    Pfizer gave Progress £53,000. Progress has actively pursued the agenda of PFI and privatisation of NHS services.
    Owen Smith went to Pfizer from a Labour Party job, while Labour were in government, and there is no doubt that his hiring was an example of the corrupt relationship between New Labour and big business which is why the Blairites are so hated by the public.

    It is also beyond any argument that if Pfizer had any doubts about Owen Smith’s willingness to promote the Big Pharma and NHS Privatisation agenda, they would never have hired him.

    Owen Smith is a strong supporter of Trident and assiduously courts the arms industry. He is a regular at defence industry events.

    Perhaps most crucially of all, Owen Smith joined his fellow Red Tories in abstaining on the Tory welfare benefit cuts.

    I do not doubt Owen Smith’s expertise in brand positioning. I expect that there are indeed a large number of Labour Party members who might vote for a left wing alternative to Corbyn.

    But I also suspect that Smith has adopted the PR man’s typical contempt for the public, who are not as stupid as he seems to think. There is no evidence whatsoever that Smith is a left winger. There is every evidence that he is another New Labour unprincipled and immoral careerist, adopting a left wing pose that he thinks will win him votes.

    People will notice, Owen. They really are not that stupid.

  78. A2 says:

    Now there is one interesting bit in that guardian article.

    “He also promised a new Scottish national bank if Labour came to power at Westminster”

    Where that Idea came from and what it’s implications may be – who knows?

  79. lumilumi says:

    Also, @ Alex (11.07pm)

    … most of our right wing journalists would be writing under pseudonyms.

    Something daft probably like the name of a tool or blunt instrument.

    So many tools to chose from in SLAB. Höylä, viila, vasara, or that “blunt instrument” so beloved by detective story writers. In my language, it’s one word: astalo.

  80. Grouse Beater says:

    Sinky: “They really are not that stupid.”

    I knew a little of Smith’s ad agency right-wing persona, but thanks, Sinky, for the Murray link. Another Welshman on the make.

  81. Sunniva says:

    Mary Lockhart (1307) seems to have won on first preference votes, with SNP coming second, with just over 1000 votes.

    What happened to second preference votes, that ousted Nicola Sturgeon’s father, even though he came first on first preference votes?

  82. arthur thomson says:

    Smith is an unprincipled trougher. Simple as that. He doesn’t expect to win but he knows that his reputation will be made as the man who was prepared to stand and be counted on behalf of the establishment. Everyone around him knows that he is a prat but that was never an obstacle to advancement in the Unionist parties. A brass kneck has always been the key ‘quality’ required.

    Corbyn is a fraud. You only have to consider the things he has said relating to Scotland. His goal is to replace the British Tory yoke with the British Labour yoke.

    I wish them both resounding success in destroying the Labour Party. It is a political party that has cynically exploited the needs of the most vulnerable and paid sneering lip service to the needs of Scotland for at least my lifetime. Its demise cannot come soon enough.

  83. Alex Clark says:


    In our language that word for tool is a Spanner which was also a “blunt instrument” in the game Cluedo. Professor Plum killed the maid in the library with a Spanner.

    Our Spanner though is just a tool, nothing else.

    PS I know your Finish so you might want to remind yourself of the Scottish definition of a tool LOL.

  84. Still Positive. says:

    Smith blamed Labour being in third place in the Scottish election on Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, which we all know is utter crap.

  85. Les Wilson says:

    Smith is a man picked by the labour elite to be the new smiley face of labour. He is certainly not the left wing person he portrays believing that NHS privatisation is a good thing, and privatisation in general.

    Yet he came from nowhere, a virtual unknown, but he is a blairite and that is what the they want. He even interviews with Blair’s smiley mannerisms.
    He also wants to have another brexit vote, so he wants to bin votes of 17 million voters. Yeah, that is a vote winner, not.

    However even if 2-3 million regret their no vote, that could leave a very angry 14 million voters very angry indeed if such a vote reversed the decision.

    That could spark civil unrest across England, and that could go anywhere, if the labour elites suggested that, and I guess they must have, it just proves how wonky their thinking is. However, old McTernan might have had something to do with it. It is normal, as he usually makes a bollocks of things.

    Corbyn, he will probably get elected and labour will have very hard years ahead of them, including a party split.
    For us, he is just another hard core Unionist, and no friend of Scotland.

  86. Alex Clark says:


    Mary Lockhart (1307 votes) needed 1400 votes for an outright win. She won on round 4 of the count. No doubt all will be clear tomorrow.

  87. Chic McGregor says:

    Thpnr & Heedtracker

    “Labour of the left? The left of what? I would put the current Labour party to the right of Ted Heaths Tory government of the 70’s.”

    I have pointed that out many times. Also way to the right of Macmillan’s one nation conservatism.

  88. crazycat says:

    @ Sunniva

    Second preferences are only examined if no candidate gets >50% of the first preferences.

    This report in The Courier
    includes a picture of the results sheet, indicating that the Labour candidate was elected at stage 4, so second preferences were allocated.

    The Green candidate was the first to be eliminated, then the Communist, then the Tory. If someone’s second preference had already been eliminated, their third/fourth preference would be used (if one was made), as would lower preferences of those transferred in an early round to a candidate later eliminated.

    If the result is being reported as having been decided on first preferences (rather than just saying what the respective number if first preferences was), that is incorrect.

  89. Chic McGregor says:

    Interesting that Labour feel a Kinnock2 could re-ignite the neoliberalism catastrophe for Labour which is all but extinguished in the sane world.

  90. crazycat says:

    @ Sunniva

    Second preferences are only examined if no candidate gets >50% of the first preferences.

    This report in The Courier
    includes a picture of the results sheet, indicating that the Labour candidate was elected at stage 4, so second preferences were allocated.

    The Green candidate was the first to be eliminated, then the Communist, then the Tory. If someone’s second preference had already been eliminated, their third/fourth preference would be used (if one was made), as would lower preferences of those transferred in an early round to a candidate later eliminated.

    If the result is being reported as having been decided on first preferences (rather than just saying what the respective number of first preferences was), that is incorrect.

  91. crazycat says:


    Double post due to my correcting a typing error mid-submit – I then got the “posting too fast” message and hoped it hadn’t gone through twice, but it did because not identical.

    And Alex got his revenge for my beating him a day or so ago 🙂

  92. Arbroath1320 says:

    So some non entity or other rolls up in Glasgow and states that he thinks some even bigger non entity from a branch office somewhere is doing a fantastic job. Hmm. Is it just me or is this a non entity thingy going on here? 🙂

  93. Iain More says:

    What a great advert for Scottish Indy.

    Nice whilst it lasted as it will be SNP very baaahd tomorrow and wall to wall in the creepy Brit Nat Press and Media.

  94. Vambomarbeleye says:

    At first I thought it was the fringe and some one was going down really well.

  95. CamernoB Brodie says:

    Re. Corbyn/Smith and whether either would be good for Scotland.

    Ingsoc is Ingsoc, in my book, though I do appreciate Smith is a closet Tory. We’re talking contemporary English politics here though, are we not? These two will have very to do with Scotland’s future, IMHO.

    Hope they can stomach “Victory Gin”, which ever side is victorious and remember to keep the home fires burning guys and the party principles alive. God save the Queen.

    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength

  96. Onwards says:

    Wonder if the best timing for another indyref is summer of 2020 right after Corbyn is hammered at the next GE, but before another Olympics TeamGB Natfest.

    There is a new mood of UK/English nationalism, and the right wing tabloids are going to go full Brexit on Corbyn with the hysterical propaganda. Even just saying he wouldn’t order Trident to be used is enough to make him unelectable in England.

    So there are going to be a lot of disappointed Labour voters in Scotland who maybe be persuaded that independence is the best means of escape from the Tories.

    I imagine many of the RISE brigade will end up backing Corbyn over the SNP at that time, buying into his pish about not working with other parties.
    But with another election defeat, they will see that Labour will have to turn into the red Tories again to have a chance.

  97. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Mr. Corbyn/Smith
    Would either of you care to support Scots in their struggle to access their inalienable human rights, such as our right to development? Or do you think it right that Scots be expected to relinquish their humanity for the greater good. Are Scots really the ‘new children of Ham’?

    “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

  98. CameronB Brodie says:

    Would you care to support Scots in their struggle to access their inalienable human rights? George Clooney, Angelina Jolie, Katie Waissel, won’t any of you support Scotland’s struggle for equality?

  99. Kevin Evans says:

    Yea chic – Owen smith is just the start to try and soften up the labour votes towards corbyn. Someone else will come along to chip away some more and when the time is right in will come that little slug kinnock Jr when he and labour thinks he can knock corbyn off his perch. It’s all too predictable.

  100. Grant says:

    That made my day.

  101. The Isolator says:

    The Labour Party in utter disarray…PLEASING.
    Tick Tock

  102. scottieDog says:

    People laughing are the ones we need to win over.

  103. It has been bugging me for days, weeks maybe. Of whom does Owen Smith remind me. It’s that mellifluous Welsh Valleys accent, Bach.
    Then the penny dropped.
    I was listening to this quite hilarious Kezia role model eulogy backfiring on Smith, and ii triggered something in the back of my mind, something buried for decades in the billions of cells in my long term memory.
    He sounds like that brilliant Welsh actor, producer and director, Kenneth Griffiths, who played the obsequious back stabbing rival of Ian Carmichael in ‘Lucky Jim’, and reprised the Uriah Heap role as Peter Seller’s rival for a step up in the world of librarians in ‘Only Two Can Play’.
    I wonder how many oldies like me make the same subconscious link?
    I was madly in love with Mai Zetterling, BTW.
    There,I’m glad that I got that off my chest.

  104. One_Scot says:

    The BBC have effectively pretty much now just become an anti SNP anti Scotland organisation.

    Not sure why anyone would happily give them their money, or Andrew Neil for that matter.

  105. The Isolator says:


    Anyone in that hall listening to that pish is beyond saving.The people laughing were probably Corbynistas who find Dugdales treachery hilarious in a twisted kinda way.
    They would be the same shitehawks cheering when Corbyn blamed the PFI debacle on the SNP

  106. JLT says:

    This clip proves that Owen Smith has absolutely no clue as to the political scene in Scotland. For Smith to state that ‘Kezia is doing a brilliant job’ shows his ignorance. He might as well have said ‘I’ve been hiding in a broom cupboard for the last 2 years so I’m just guessing as to how the current Scottish Labour leader is doing’.

    And when a good number of the audience jeer his view, he then rounds on them by chastising them. Smith did himself no favours here. As they say, you don’t keep digging when you’re in a hole.

    Firstly, he just backed up his ignorance from his first statement by stating further that ‘Kezia is doing a fantastic job’. 10 year olds know that Kezia is rubbish at her job!

    Secondly, his sheer ignorance of the Scottish political scene along with his knowledge of those leading the Northern Branch office not only makes him look foolish, but it will also lead the rest of Scotland to look at him with contempt and sarcasm. The man is just another Westminster Blairite telling the Scots what to do. In the space of 20 seconds as the clip shows, he just destroyed his credibility in Scotland.

    Simply, he does not speak for the Scots.

    But then again, neither does Corbyn. Let’s make that clear.

    Corbyn’s agenda in Scotland is the exact same as that of Smith’s, and that is to return the Scots to the Labour Party, pat them on the head, and tell them to sit at home while the Labour Party will ‘speak’ on their behalf in Westminster.

    From both men, this is what Scotland can expect;
    – no new powers for Scotland
    – certainly no ‘home rule’ (never been mentioned once)
    – no revolutionary ideas to promote Scotland in Westminster
    – in fact, they are offering …nothing! They just want you to vote for them.

    Strip away the façade of this bitter, stupid civil war in the Labour Party in which one man has the right policies but has no charisma, where the other is a jumped up Blairite who wants to be the next Tony Blair, and their bickering over a daft wee lassie who hot-foots between leaders; leads her party to 3rd place in the Scottish elections and is literally the kiss of death for anyone who has her backing and what you have is absolute chaos.

    Jeremy dominated the news this week with pictures of him sitting on the floor of a train. Personally (and I believe most of Scotland will agree with me on this) …I couldn’t give two figs if Jeremy sat on the roof of the train. The man is a non-entity in Scotland. He doesn’t care about Scotland. He is offering Scotland nothing. He won’t give us one new power let alone Labour’s hallowed promise of ‘home rule’. The man will do squat in Scotland …and he’s the best out of both men, so Smith’s really stuffed then!

    Last night, we saw two men who offered Scotland very little, but for both men (and I can guarantee it today throughout Scotland) …I’ll bet that not one workplace, bar or coffee house will have a conversation where one person asks the other ‘….well, what did you make of Smith and Corbyn last night?’

  107. Luigi says:

    The Isolator says:

    26 August, 2016 at 6:14 am

    The Labour Party in utter disarray…PLEASING.

    Aye, but the Zombie Party is still winning council seats, which is both worrying and disgusting. Who the hell is voting for them? The critical 2017 elections are going to be a challenge for the SNP.

  108. Sinky says:

    Labour By election win put into perspective from 2012 Result

    LABOUR Alex Rowley 37.04% 1,380
    Independent William L. Clarke 27.51% 1,025
    SNP Ann Bain 19.0% 708

  109. Truth says:

    Ditch the licence people.

    Do we really believe such a reaction at an SNP hustings would have gone without comment from the “impartial” BBC?

  110. Marie Clark says:

    Luigi @ 8.18 Aye who is voting for the zombie party at the council elections. Well there’s the diehard SLAB voter, cause ma faither aye voted Labour. There’s some of the blue tories to keep SNP out, but I think one of the biggest factors has to be turnout, which is notoriously bad at council elections.Then there is the local element where you may have a popular and hard working councillor,usually standing as an independent, so they get voted in again.

    It is worrying that some of these clowns who have no interest in their constituents or anything that happens locally might get back in again. They just need tae keep the gravy train running for they and theirs.

    How do we get a better turnout next May. You can leaflet and canvas but maist o’ the candidates are that poor folk cannae be bothered tae vote.

  111. gordoz says:

    That’s yet ‘Pet shop boy’ getting an outing in the DR page 8
    More UKOK love.

  112. mr thms says:

    With new powers coming to Scotland what effect would it have on GERS?

    The BBC’s Douglas Fraser shows the difference it would make if it when applied to the latest GERS…

    “With some reverse engineering of these figures, the statisticians have calculated how much would have been raised last year under the devolved powers introduced in April this year and more in future years. With power over some of income tax (the Scotland Act 2012), Holyrood would have raised £8.9 billion of the total last year.

    With the powers included in the Scotland Act 2016, that goes up to £16.1bn, and a further £5.6bn of VAT assigned to the Scottish Parliament. That makes for 30% of the budget being set through taxes controlled at Holyrood, and 40% when VAT is assigned.’

  113. Well said, JLT.
    BBC News Where You Are bigged this visit up as though we Scots give a Donald Duck about the internecine antics of this discredited party.
    For your information, Brian Taylor, the UK Labour Party, as you call them, have one MP left Up Here, a Last Man Standing of whom we would never have heard if Mags, Douglas, Jim, and Bayonet Man Davidson had been returned.
    The Holyrood Branch has gone through 10 leaders, Dugdale being the Last Woman mug enough to take the job following her resounding failure as IRN Man Murphy’s deputy, and her own spectacular failure as leader during the SGE in May.
    She is a fabulous role model indeed, Mr Smith.
    When will the Scottish MSM realise that the more that they give this bunch of dusty old failures the prominence and devoted publicity and relentless exposure of Saddam Hussein, Papa Doc, and Auld Lizzie and her offspring exposure, the more that they become figures of derision and ridicule?
    Not too soon, I hope.
    Pacific Quay, are you listening?
    I caught BBC Radio News Where You Are GMS yesterday, courtesy of I Player.
    During the 6 to 7 slot, they reviewed the ‘papers, and repeated the GERS Black Hole Lies in half a dozen Unionist Titles, then after Eight somebody called Hayley Millar interviwed Derek MacKay, basing the interview on her assertion that the GERS figures were gospel, and ignoring the fact that, even if this pile of Treasury, HMRC, OBR, ONS, cack were in any way accurate, this £15 billion Black Hole that we are in is because we are part of a Dying Union, and that the WM Parliament ran up this hypothetical deficit , not that hateful Nicola Sturgeon.
    I have a transcript, but won’t test your resolve by setting it out here.
    She employed the ‘interrupt’ technique as the BAD SNP are developing an answer.
    MacKay was not being interviewed, the Beeb’s Hayley was delivering the Unionist message on behalf of her political masters.
    “Scotland is a financial basket case. If ‘granted’ independence, they would put up taxes and cut public services.”
    These were her interventions, talking over MacKay.
    Don’t listen to him, my faithful listeners.
    The Beeb has the script.
    BAD SNP. Black £15 billion hole.
    Oil price crash. Thank heavens we dodged the Nationalist bullet.
    Wednesday News Day unfolded as we expected. Newspapers, radio, TV. Too Poor, Too Poor, Too poor.
    Of those I caught? Shame on you, Brian Taylor. You do know better.
    Hilary Millar? Who?

  114. Peter A Bell says:

    The people (audience) send a message to British Labour (Owen Smith) and the response is to tell the people they are wrong.

  115. Marie Clark says:

    It’s funny that Peter, it’s always the audience or the voters that are wrong.

    As the auld saying goes ” They’re a’ oota step but oor Jock”.

  116. Muscleguy says:


    What are you smoking? RISE is overtly, fundamentally Yes. Why should RISE people go back to Unionist SLAB?

    You have fundamentally misunderstood the point. Either that or you have drunk the SNP Koolade that says they are the only Yes party and deny anybody else can be Yes.

    I’ve even read on Wings in the comments that Patrick Harvie is soft on Yes. When in fact he is a harder Yes than Sturgeon. He simply doesn’t think DevoMax would work or be stable and is a Yes or die man. But his party is Yes and he was appealing for party votes so any old lying pish was ‘fair game’.

  117. Tinto Chiel says:

    CameronBBrodie asks: “Are Scots really the ‘new children of Ham’?”

    Dear God, don’t tell David Cameron. No wonder he’s coming up here on holiday.

    JLT: exactly. I’ve felt sorry for JC in the past because the Establishment are doing the same number on him which they try on us and the behaviour of the Red Tory PLP is deplorable but he neither knows nor cares about Scotland, as his remarks consistently show.

    Jack Collatin: I see your Kenneth Griffiths comparison but for me it has to be the smarmy Clive Jenkins. Even the specs. You have to be quite old to remember him and then you wished you hadn’t bothered. Uggsome craitur.

    Oh, Mai, Mai…..(stares wistfully into the distance).

    They say confession is good for the soul, Jack.

  118. Ken500 says:

    Who created the UK debt. Westminster unionists. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Thatcherism/Blairite. Rejected by the majority of Scottish voters. Policies in Scotland are still determined by Westminster in Scotland. Trident approx £1Billion, no tax on ‘loss leading drink cost approx £1Billion, tax evasion £3Billion (whisky companies etc tax evade). The Oil sector taxed at 60/80% when the price had fallen 25% losing thousands of jobs (Osbourne). Cost £4Billion. Scotland paying approx £4Billion in loan repayments it doesn’t borrow or spend. Total £13Billion. Westminster are still borrowing and spending £75Billion + a£20Billion black hole. = £95Billion a year.

    A £300Billion Oil Fund gone. Thatcher illegally and secretly built up London with it. Andrew Neil, a Tory, made lying reports for the BBC about the state of Scotland. Thatcher demutualised the Building Societies and deregulated the banks. Thatcher sold off Utilities, now owed by foreign national companies. Andrew Neil a total biased Tory employed by the BBC on £1/2Million salary. Lord Hall refuses to believe the BBC is biased.

    Westminster refuse to give Scotland the powers to sort out the Deficit. The Unionists politicians are totally useless. Now Brexit which the majority in Scotland voted against that will further destroy the world economy. Westminster/Unionists want out of the EU so they can tax evade.

    T. May tells people to holiday in Britain after spending 3 weeks in Switzerland. The NHS in England is failing.

  119. Valerie says:

    Can’t believe folk are disparaging this Owen Smith chap.

    He was named best newcomer in the comedy section at Edinburgh Festival. He will go far!

  120. Macart says:

    I don’t care what party you normally vote for or affiliate yourself with. I don’t care what colour your rosette is during a general election, a Scottish election, an EU election (for as long as it lasts), or council elections. You are who you are and you vote your concience.

    During the course of any referendum however, IF we are to stand ANY chance, and if as we suspect the outcome of recent events gives us that opportunity? The rosettes MUST go in the drawer. It can’t be stressed enough that this IS TOO IMPORTANT. If events lead to a second referendum in the near future there may not be another shot at this in anyone’s lifetime and literally lives and futures hang in the outcome.

    There is only YES or NO, inclusion or isolation, social justice and democracy or massively extended austerity and subjugation.

    If yes does not win at a second time of asking, then all the rainbow of rosettes won’t matter a damn against an ever more right wing system and society that will tear your parties and this country’s economy and apart and make life an absolute misery for every Scottish citizen.

    We can’t affor to be anything other than YES Scotland.

  121. Clootie says:

    Muscleguy 8:57

    I think you went a bit too far there!

    The majority of SNP activists and politicians recognise the strong commitment of other parties and groups fighting for Independence. Some debate is justified that a few individuals (in all groups) spend more time pushing their version of Indpendence rather than saving that debate detail until we gain the main prize of self determination.

    As for the remark “…harder YES than Nicola” That must be an ill judged throw away comment. To imply that someone who joined the Independence movement as a 16 year old and dedicated their life to it is not fully committed is nonsense.

  122. Macart says:

    Should read ‘economy apart’. Doh!

  123. jimnarlene says:

    Funniest thing I’ve seen, in a long time.

  124. Cymru Rydd says:

    I am a Welsh nationalist who very much enjoys Wings Over Scotland, and other pro-independence blogs in Scotland.I’d just like to make a few comments about Owen Smith from a Welsh perspective

    To my mind, he is just another one in a long line of Labour wannabees from Wales hoping to get a secure place on the Westminster gravy train. He just oozes New Labour insincerity from every pore, and it is absolutely staggering that he has been put up as a viable leadership candidate, in view of how things have changed of late. When you hear him speak, you could swear you are listening again to Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson, Alistair Campbell, Gordon Brown and all the other creeps that so contaminated our politics and our democracy over the past twenty years. The same arrogance,the same patronising tone, the same top-down mentality and the same sense of self-entitlement. It’s all there with Owen.

    Owen Smith also has this blissful ability to ignore the march of history, and the hard truth that a Welshman can never again be a prime minister at Westminster. Part of this of course is down to David Cameron’s English Votes for English Laws, which means that the poor sod could not even vote in Education/Health debates at Westminster should he become PM, and he would be hopelessly compramised as a result. The BBC of course, true to nature, has not even touched upon this glaring inconsistency in Owen Smith’s bid to become Labour leader. But, there’s a wider issue here as well. The Political Weather in England is changing, and it’s becoming increasingly “national” in the sense of an English political identity taking form in front of our eyes. UKIP to all intents and purposes are the National Party of England, and to a large degree Brexit was a vote for English Independence. I know, I know, Wales voted for Brexit as well, but that was largely due to the lack of a real Welsh media here and the overwhelming presence of London based newspapers in Wales. ( Personally I voted Remain to affirm my Welsh identity, but I wanted Brexit to happen because I believed it would lead to significant change and a constitutional upheaval, and I think that is now happening).

    What i’m saying in effect is that Westminster can no longer be an avenue for the Owen Smiths of Wales. England will no longer tolerate the thought of a Welshman/Welshwoman near the levers of power. One could even argue that this was a popular sentiment at the time of Neil Kinnock in the eighties- so think how resonant it would be in our particular time!!

    Such aspiring politicans will have to make do with Wales in future, which can only fuel the Independence cause here in our country. Adam Price, one of Plaid Cymru’s leading lights, has even predicted it will be the Labour party who will eventually lead Wales to Independence. Time will tell…….

  125. heedtracker says:

    You have fundamentally misunderstood the point. Either that or you have drunk the SNP Koolade that says they are the only Yes party and deny anybody else can be Yes.

    Cheap shots. You seem to misunderstand what happened last Scottish GE but you probably dont Muscleguy. Also if you’re from Aberdeen and the north east, the Greens are known as, The Blockers, the very very expensive Blockers.

  126. t42 says:

    comedy gold!

  127. chris kilby says:


  128. Petra says:

    Someone should let potential Scottish Labour voters know that their Scottish leader, Kezia Dugdale, supports a man, Owen Smith, who wants to privatise the NHS, is directly involved in Pfizer’s funding of Blairite right wing entryist group Progress, is a strong supporter of Trident and assiduously courts the arms industry. He is a regular at defence industry events. Perhaps most crucially of all, Owen Smith joined his fellow Red Tories in abstaining on the Tory welfare benefit cuts.”

    Left wing Smith my backside.

  129. Greannach says:

    Did he call her “Katie” at the beginning?

    “Katie Morag plays at politics”. (Unpublished)

  130. Jack Collatin says:

    Cymru Rydd,
    well said.

  131. Tinto Chiel,
    Hands off Mai ! She’s mine. Or she was 50 years ago.
    Clive Jenkins? Mebees.

  132. Robert Kerr says:

    @Jack Collatin @Tinto Chiel,

    Clive Jenkins. Saints preserve us! I had forgotten him! I was a member of ASTMS long ago.

  133. Greannach says:

    I’m not really sure who Owen Smith is. Is he a contestant on the Great British Bake-off?

  134. Stoker says:

    Clootie wrote:

    “To imply that someone who joined the Independence movement as a 16 year old and dedicated their life to it is not fully committed is nonsense.”

    Clootie, i remember watching a documentary on her (or was it a news piece?) way last year and can remember learning that Nicola’s commitment took place long before her teens.

    If memory serves me correctly she was active around the age of eight or nine (possibly younger?) going round the doors posting leaflets to help either her mother? Aunty? or a local SNP candidate who lived quite near to her?

    Mhairi Black is another very inspirational character who, in her teens, regularly stood in Paisley High Street dishing out leaflets and the rest, as they say, is history!

    BTW: Anyone interested in getting on with things and using their own initiative to create a leaflet of ‘SC’ guide to voting tactics or whatever message you want to send, you can get 1000 quality flyers for £15 or 5000 quality flyers for £33 at Vistaprint. There will be other rates from various companies so do your homework and use whatever suits you best.

    And don’t forget to tweak ‘SC’ advice to suit the constituency that you live in. Research the details and find out who’s standing for who etc. Good luck, troops!

  135. Clapper57 says:

    @lumilumi says:
    25 August, 2016 at 9:02 pm
    “Worried about a Labour audience laughing and jeering a Labour leader… while trying to unseat a Labour leader.

    Have these people no sense of irony… or reality?

    Thanks for the chuckle”.

    Hey Lumilumi….You have hit the nail firmly on the head. What a RuntC**t he actually is …..L..o..feckin..L.

  136. Cactus says:

    Also works very well here:
    “Quicksand, quicksand.. splendid”

    Nice speech Omen Smith!

  137. Tinto Chiel says:

    Jack C: Nae worries, I’m more of a Alida Valli boy masel’. That bit when she walks past Joseph Cotten in the Third Man always gets me.

    Robert Kerr: sorry to bring the horror back. It’s my age. I prescribe a large malt…..and breathe…..and you’re back in the room.

    He was an utter aerosol. A trimmer and a proto- Blairite. Scotland produced a wheen o’ them, didn’t we.

    Cymru Rydd: we understand, brother.

  138. Tinto, Couldn’t agree more. Also Francoise Hardy, and Julie Christie.
    Nowadays, the Young Turks have to put up with no talent ‘celebrities’.

  139. Tinto Chiel says:

    Ha! Ha! Jack: call me Victor.

    Julie Christie in Billy Liar and Hildegard Neff in The Man Between with James Mason: they were quite something, those women.

    The Ref will exile us permanently to Off Topic, and quite rightly.


  140. Richardinho says:

    In fairness to Dugdale, it’s hard to tell whether she’s doing a good job or not because the job she has is an almost impossible one to do.

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