Wings Over Scotland

“I’m really worried..”

he should be. oops.

yup, the cows are coming home to roost

He is really worried? Where the feck has he been?

Kezia took over from the Divine Murphy who took over from Branch office Johann who took over from Killing Fields Grey who possibly took over from Wendy…at this point I am losing track.

Laughing at the twitter feed from the meeting. Apparently Corbyn is blaming the SNP for TTIP and PFI. Ha ha ha ha. This guy is a total tattie who knows absolutely nothing about the politics or policy of Scottish Parties.

That is the unkindest cut of all, when impromptu laughter greets the passionless praise of a mediocre politician by a principle free one.

imagine the total lack of self respect it must take to accept dugdale as your leader

Here is what came up on Youtube after that Owen Smith interlude.

Maybe a bit more relevant and at least entertaining?

link to youtube.com

There comes a time when you just have admit defeat and abandon resuscitation procedures, surely?

As I said before, where would BLiS______d and the Ruthtastic Party be without the iron lung of the BBC?

How long do we have to put up with all this utter shit?

Sheesh!

Up to their necks in an Egyptian river…

…how far we have come!

The average Scot has more political awareness and skill than the so called leaders of the various Labour sects.

We are to listen to their pathetic calls to “wait for a Labour victory delivering Utopia” instead of pursuing Independence. They also admit that they cannot work together which leads to a simple summary that we should accept a few decades of Tory rule and decay while we try to get our shit together.

However what it really means is keep the rotten Union together until it’s our turn to put our snout in the swill.

…London is the centre of the Universe.

Aye nae wunner folk laughed.
But I find it infinetly more worrying are the monkeys who started clapping Smith for praising dippity.

What planet are some of these folk on?

Owen’s pitch sounds suspiciously like “vote for me or we take our ball home and form our own party”.

Not sure that is a great argument but I can’t profess to being able to get into the Labour zeitgeist anymore.

@lumilumi

Excellent! 🙂

@Duncan Hothersall
One party, eh?

Mr Smith. Do yourself a favour, son. Watch:

Kez – The Blunder Years

link to youtube.com

If you ‘think’ Kez is doing a great job after watching that car crash then you are just another delusional Labour careerist. Perhaps you should actually try and ‘think’ (REALLY ‘think’) instead of merely saying you ‘think’.

We’re not convinced. Not in the least.

@Severin McSpanner
Another sign of the times?

We’re witnessing these scenes and having a snigger, but only afterwards we’ll really realise what we’re seeing now. History – as opposed to fleeting political comedy – in the making, over the past few years and over the next few years.

The political situation in Scotland and the whole of the UK, and Europe has changed so much in the past few years and few months and weeks that it’s difficult to get your head around to it unless you’ve been following it closely, and following grass-roots. Even then it’s a bit mind-boggling.

At home in my country, I finally felt my strange hobby (following Scots/UK politics) vindicated at Brexit. I’d predicted it, and Scotland IN. All my friends and family in my country could not believe it. One of the times you wish you couldn’t say “I told you so”.

If only the EBC would show comedy of this calibre,people might
start paying the licence tax again.Peace,Love and pissing myself. 🙂

Who let them Nats in, that’s who they will blame, wonder how the Kez bit will be reported in the media?

harry mcaye: remember when you consider JC and OS, the keelie’s response to the Winters Brothers.

“Aw no! There’s two o’ them!”

Aye Brexit, you would have learned more on here than you would in the Dead Tree press.

I remember posting on here about how the voters in the N.E. of England were going to vote Leave by a big majority and they did.

I believed this because I listened and could also see it with my own eyes. Now why did our politicians and press get it so wrong? I guess they don’t get out of London much can be the only answer.

The cheeky bar stewards accuse us of living in a bubble hahaha.

MPs stabbing your leader in the back is ok, but don’t you plebs dare laugh at your leader.

We are the left in this country – not the nationalists. No deal with the SNP.

They have to cut the crap and get this sorted out, if they do actually want to get elected. Yesterday rancid The Graun went after JC again with the all new and exciting red tory generation who say stuff like

Rhea Wolfson youngest and only Scottish member of the NEC told the Guardian: “Younger people who support the SNP and Greens are now going to Corbyn rallies. My frustration is that they see him as a figure of the left rather than of Labour, and we need to change that.”

So what is old fart face up there on about.

link to archive.is

Unlike Dr NO, Libby McSpanner quite liked JC tonight, although as usual no SNP comment allowed, unlike every and any red tory’s can go UKOK nuts in anything rancid Graun does SNP. And no mention of the Kez comedy bit for Graun.

link to archive.is

In Glasgow speech, Corbyn insists no electoral alliance with Scottish National party will happen if he stays Labour leader

We in the Labour party can’t stand the sight of each other; we’re not sure what sort of manifesto promises to make because we’re almost certain we could never fulfil them; we’re less clued up about Scotland than Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage; we tend to abstain rather than vote against tory policies which could have a negative effect on the poor or disadvantaged of society. But, hey, we’ve got all the answers needed to pull the wool over the eyes of Scotland’s electorate, so why not vote for us?

Dream on, Smiffy. And dream on, Corbyn. I wouldn’t vote for either one of you if my life depended on it.

Corbyn says he’s disappointed that Kez doesn’t appreciate his leadership. He should be thanking his lucky stars for any distance created between himself and Kez.

Smith expresses surprise that people in Scotland mock Kezia. It’s time he dug out a few youtube clips of “First Minister’s Questions” to get to know his running mate a little better.

@ Alex Clark 10:31pm (Weren’t you ThePNR before?)

The Brexit ref, or any ref/election. You’ve got to have your ear to the ground, your antennae out. Forget preconceived ideas and personal quibbles, just listen, feel the weak signals, the mood. Also the not so weak, the blaring obvious signals. Act accordingly.

The SNP is very much better at this than SLAB or UKLAB. SLAB and UKLAB seem deaf, dumb and blind in this regard. Why would anybody want to vote for such incompetents?

He didn’t like that did he…so the audience gets it. That’s the trouble wi Labour…it’s always the ‘audience’ or the ‘voters’ that they attack for their own stupidity. The man’s a lightweight.

The next Labour PM has not yet been born. We must look for signs and portents. Owen Smith seems to be modelling himself on John Smith, minus the wit.
Was that Kezia standing to the left of the stage?

Alex Clark says:
25 August, 2016 at 10:45 pm
@heedtracker

This is where its all going seriously wrong for Lab. MacDougal’s just trying it on as usual but the PLP are clearly trying to be nice tory in England. To be fair, UK elections do seem to be won by tory middle England, well they always are, look at Brexit. So red tories in Scotland like Kez have to keep some left pretence going, as they slowly, then quickly, then slowly die. Fact is tory BBC led UK media wont allow JC to win anything. He’s their next Michael Foot, poor old guy.

Ooft to the n. Utterly stunning.

At least we will never have to suffer under this shower, it’s Indy, or left to the cruel vagaries of the nasty Great British bar stewards, for the foreseeable.

Shouldn’t someone start a crowd fundy thingy, and see if there’s a dignitas type outfit who could do the deed?
Kinder, all round.

“Lol the old ones are the best! Do you think it’d make a good Chris Cairns cartoon? Tinto Chiel @9.52”

Sorry, Rob, I’m busy. Me and Spock are chatting up Penny from Big Bang Theory.

Mebbes get back to you ramorra 😛

“Hey, Owen, great news. Kezia Dugdale is supporting you…”

“Err, who? Never mind, she must be terrific”

A quick dash to North Britain where it seems the jocks are confused and don’t know their place. They obviously don’t know who Kezia Dugdale is either. Could be because she keeps changing faces.

No doubt that will be the excuse “infiltrated by SNP supporters” I would expect that kind of reaction if Smith was addressing an English Labour audience, are we sure it wasn’t a bused in audience or another Labour rent a crowd ?

Was Kezia there? If so,it must have been really embarrassing for her.If she wasn’t there,why not? Of course she’d be there.She would surely have hosted the debate and introduced the candidates.She’s the Scottish Labour leader after all.

Corbyn is a hopeless loser.Smith is absolutely dismal.Ruth should really step into the breach and take on the role of leader.Only she can bring together the red and blue factions of the Tory party.

I think the crowd was probably bussed in from Dan Saf, hence the laughter at Deadwoods name, as the southern purple Tories have no idea who she is.
Defo not infiltrated by SNP supporters as the laughter would have been a million decibels louder, besides SNP supporters would rather lick wood chip wall paper than listen to the Purples.
Indy Ref 2 Wooohooooo its coming.

Kremlin would celebrate if Corbyn elected, claims former NATO chief
link to rt.com

Recycling Project Fear. The old ones are the best ones.

Speechless!

Just heard Mary Lockhart won the Fife By-election with SNP second : –

link to thecourier.co.uk

Now there is one interesting bit in that guardian article.

“He also promised a new Scottish national bank if Labour came to power at Westminster”

Where that Idea came from and what it’s implications may be – who knows?

Sinky: “They really are not that stupid.”

I knew a little of Smith’s ad agency right-wing persona, but thanks, Sinky, for the Murray link. Another Welshman on the make.

Smith is an unprincipled trougher. Simple as that. He doesn’t expect to win but he knows that his reputation will be made as the man who was prepared to stand and be counted on behalf of the establishment. Everyone around him knows that he is a prat but that was never an obstacle to advancement in the Unionist parties. A brass kneck has always been the key ‘quality’ required.

Corbyn is a fraud. You only have to consider the things he has said relating to Scotland. His goal is to replace the British Tory yoke with the British Labour yoke.

I wish them both resounding success in destroying the Labour Party. It is a political party that has cynically exploited the needs of the most vulnerable and paid sneering lip service to the needs of Scotland for at least my lifetime. Its demise cannot come soon enough.

Smith blamed Labour being in third place in the Scottish election on Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, which we all know is utter crap.

@Sunniva

Mary Lockhart (1307 votes) needed 1400 votes for an outright win. She won on round 4 of the count. No doubt all will be clear tomorrow.

@ Sunniva

Second preferences are only examined if no candidate gets >50% of the first preferences.

This report in The Courier link to archive.is
includes a picture of the results sheet, indicating that the Labour candidate was elected at stage 4, so second preferences were allocated.

The Green candidate was the first to be eliminated, then the Communist, then the Tory. If someone’s second preference had already been eliminated, their third/fourth preference would be used (if one was made), as would lower preferences of those transferred in an early round to a candidate later eliminated.

If the result is being reported as having been decided on first preferences (rather than just saying what the respective number if first preferences was), that is incorrect.

@ Sunniva

Second preferences are only examined if no candidate gets >50% of the first preferences.

This report in The Courier link to archive.is
includes a picture of the results sheet, indicating that the Labour candidate was elected at stage 4, so second preferences were allocated.

The Green candidate was the first to be eliminated, then the Communist, then the Tory. If someone’s second preference had already been eliminated, their third/fourth preference would be used (if one was made), as would lower preferences of those transferred in an early round to a candidate later eliminated.

If the result is being reported as having been decided on first preferences (rather than just saying what the respective number of first preferences was), that is incorrect.

So some non entity or other rolls up in Glasgow and states that he thinks some even bigger non entity from a branch office somewhere is doing a fantastic job. Hmm. Is it just me or is this a non entity thingy going on here? 🙂

At first I thought it was the fringe and some one was going down really well.

Wonder if the best timing for another indyref is summer of 2020 right after Corbyn is hammered at the next GE, but before another Olympics TeamGB Natfest.

There is a new mood of UK/English nationalism, and the right wing tabloids are going to go full Brexit on Corbyn with the hysterical propaganda. Even just saying he wouldn’t order Trident to be used is enough to make him unelectable in England.

So there are going to be a lot of disappointed Labour voters in Scotland who maybe be persuaded that independence is the best means of escape from the Tories.

I imagine many of the RISE brigade will end up backing Corbyn over the SNP at that time, buying into his pish about not working with other parties.
But with another election defeat, they will see that Labour will have to turn into the red Tories again to have a chance.

@Bono
Would you care to support Scots in their struggle to access their inalienable human rights? George Clooney, Angelina Jolie, Katie Waissel, won’t any of you support Scotland’s struggle for equality?

That made my day.

People laughing are the ones we need to win over.

The BBC have effectively pretty much now just become an anti SNP anti Scotland organisation.

Not sure why anyone would happily give them their money, or Andrew Neil for that matter.

This clip proves that Owen Smith has absolutely no clue as to the political scene in Scotland. For Smith to state that ‘Kezia is doing a brilliant job’ shows his ignorance. He might as well have said ‘I’ve been hiding in a broom cupboard for the last 2 years so I’m just guessing as to how the current Scottish Labour leader is doing’.

And when a good number of the audience jeer his view, he then rounds on them by chastising them. Smith did himself no favours here. As they say, you don’t keep digging when you’re in a hole.

Firstly, he just backed up his ignorance from his first statement by stating further that ‘Kezia is doing a fantastic job’. 10 year olds know that Kezia is rubbish at her job!

Secondly, his sheer ignorance of the Scottish political scene along with his knowledge of those leading the Northern Branch office not only makes him look foolish, but it will also lead the rest of Scotland to look at him with contempt and sarcasm. The man is just another Westminster Blairite telling the Scots what to do. In the space of 20 seconds as the clip shows, he just destroyed his credibility in Scotland.

Simply, he does not speak for the Scots.

But then again, neither does Corbyn. Let’s make that clear.

Corbyn’s agenda in Scotland is the exact same as that of Smith’s, and that is to return the Scots to the Labour Party, pat them on the head, and tell them to sit at home while the Labour Party will ‘speak’ on their behalf in Westminster.

From both men, this is what Scotland can expect;
– no new powers for Scotland
– certainly no ‘home rule’ (never been mentioned once)
– no revolutionary ideas to promote Scotland in Westminster
– in fact, they are offering …nothing! They just want you to vote for them.

Strip away the façade of this bitter, stupid civil war in the Labour Party in which one man has the right policies but has no charisma, where the other is a jumped up Blairite who wants to be the next Tony Blair, and their bickering over a daft wee lassie who hot-foots between leaders; leads her party to 3rd place in the Scottish elections and is literally the kiss of death for anyone who has her backing and what you have is absolute chaos.

Jeremy dominated the news this week with pictures of him sitting on the floor of a train. Personally (and I believe most of Scotland will agree with me on this) …I couldn’t give two figs if Jeremy sat on the roof of the train. The man is a non-entity in Scotland. He doesn’t care about Scotland. He is offering Scotland nothing. He won’t give us one new power let alone Labour’s hallowed promise of ‘home rule’. The man will do squat in Scotland …and he’s the best out of both men, so Smith’s really stuffed then!

Last night, we saw two men who offered Scotland very little, but for both men (and I can guarantee it today throughout Scotland) …I’ll bet that not one workplace, bar or coffee house will have a conversation where one person asks the other ‘….well, what did you make of Smith and Corbyn last night?’

Labour By election win put into perspective from 2012 Result

LABOUR Alex Rowley 37.04% 1,380
Independent William L. Clarke 27.51% 1,025
SNP Ann Bain 19.0% 708

Luigi @ 8.18 Aye who is voting for the zombie party at the council elections. Well there’s the diehard SLAB voter, cause ma faither aye voted Labour. There’s some of the blue tories to keep SNP out, but I think one of the biggest factors has to be turnout, which is notoriously bad at council elections.Then there is the local element where you may have a popular and hard working councillor,usually standing as an independent, so they get voted in again.

It is worrying that some of these clowns who have no interest in their constituents or anything that happens locally might get back in again. They just need tae keep the gravy train running for they and theirs.

How do we get a better turnout next May. You can leaflet and canvas but maist o’ the candidates are that poor folk cannae be bothered tae vote.

With new powers coming to Scotland what effect would it have on GERS?

The BBC’s Douglas Fraser shows the difference it would make if it when applied to the latest GERS…

link to bbc.co.uk

“With some reverse engineering of these figures, the statisticians have calculated how much would have been raised last year under the devolved powers introduced in April this year and more in future years. With power over some of income tax (the Scotland Act 2012), Holyrood would have raised £8.9 billion of the total last year.

With the powers included in the Scotland Act 2016, that goes up to £16.1bn, and a further £5.6bn of VAT assigned to the Scottish Parliament. That makes for 30% of the budget being set through taxes controlled at Holyrood, and 40% when VAT is assigned.’

The people (audience) send a message to British Labour (Owen Smith) and the response is to tell the people they are wrong.

@onward

What are you smoking? RISE is overtly, fundamentally Yes. Why should RISE people go back to Unionist SLAB?

You have fundamentally misunderstood the point. Either that or you have drunk the SNP Koolade that says they are the only Yes party and deny anybody else can be Yes.

I’ve even read on Wings in the comments that Patrick Harvie is soft on Yes. When in fact he is a harder Yes than Sturgeon. He simply doesn’t think DevoMax would work or be stable and is a Yes or die man. But his party is Yes and he was appealing for party votes so any old lying pish was ‘fair game’.

Who created the UK debt. Westminster unionists. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Thatcherism/Blairite. Rejected by the majority of Scottish voters. Policies in Scotland are still determined by Westminster in Scotland. Trident approx £1Billion, no tax on ‘loss leading drink cost approx £1Billion, tax evasion £3Billion (whisky companies etc tax evade). The Oil sector taxed at 60/80% when the price had fallen 25% losing thousands of jobs (Osbourne). Cost £4Billion. Scotland paying approx £4Billion in loan repayments it doesn’t borrow or spend. Total £13Billion. Westminster are still borrowing and spending £75Billion + a£20Billion black hole. = £95Billion a year.

A £300Billion Oil Fund gone. Thatcher illegally and secretly built up London with it. Andrew Neil, a Tory, made lying reports for the BBC about the state of Scotland. Thatcher demutualised the Building Societies and deregulated the banks. Thatcher sold off Utilities, now owed by foreign national companies. Andrew Neil a total biased Tory employed by the BBC on £1/2Million salary. Lord Hall refuses to believe the BBC is biased.

Westminster refuse to give Scotland the powers to sort out the Deficit. The Unionists politicians are totally useless. Now Brexit which the majority in Scotland voted against that will further destroy the world economy. Westminster/Unionists want out of the EU so they can tax evade.

T. May tells people to holiday in Britain after spending 3 weeks in Switzerland. The NHS in England is failing.

I don’t care what party you normally vote for or affiliate yourself with. I don’t care what colour your rosette is during a general election, a Scottish election, an EU election (for as long as it lasts), or council elections. You are who you are and you vote your concience.

During the course of any referendum however, IF we are to stand ANY chance, and if as we suspect the outcome of recent events gives us that opportunity? The rosettes MUST go in the drawer. It can’t be stressed enough that this IS TOO IMPORTANT. If events lead to a second referendum in the near future there may not be another shot at this in anyone’s lifetime and literally lives and futures hang in the outcome.

There is only YES or NO, inclusion or isolation, social justice and democracy or massively extended austerity and subjugation.

If yes does not win at a second time of asking, then all the rainbow of rosettes won’t matter a damn against an ever more right wing system and society that will tear your parties and this country’s economy and apart and make life an absolute misery for every Scottish citizen.

We can’t affor to be anything other than YES Scotland.

Should read ‘economy apart’. Doh!

I am a Welsh nationalist who very much enjoys Wings Over Scotland, and other pro-independence blogs in Scotland.I’d just like to make a few comments about Owen Smith from a Welsh perspective

To my mind, he is just another one in a long line of Labour wannabees from Wales hoping to get a secure place on the Westminster gravy train. He just oozes New Labour insincerity from every pore, and it is absolutely staggering that he has been put up as a viable leadership candidate, in view of how things have changed of late. When you hear him speak, you could swear you are listening again to Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson, Alistair Campbell, Gordon Brown and all the other creeps that so contaminated our politics and our democracy over the past twenty years. The same arrogance,the same patronising tone, the same top-down mentality and the same sense of self-entitlement. It’s all there with Owen.

Owen Smith also has this blissful ability to ignore the march of history, and the hard truth that a Welshman can never again be a prime minister at Westminster. Part of this of course is down to David Cameron’s English Votes for English Laws, which means that the poor sod could not even vote in Education/Health debates at Westminster should he become PM, and he would be hopelessly compramised as a result. The BBC of course, true to nature, has not even touched upon this glaring inconsistency in Owen Smith’s bid to become Labour leader. But, there’s a wider issue here as well. The Political Weather in England is changing, and it’s becoming increasingly “national” in the sense of an English political identity taking form in front of our eyes. UKIP to all intents and purposes are the National Party of England, and to a large degree Brexit was a vote for English Independence. I know, I know, Wales voted for Brexit as well, but that was largely due to the lack of a real Welsh media here and the overwhelming presence of London based newspapers in Wales. ( Personally I voted Remain to affirm my Welsh identity, but I wanted Brexit to happen because I believed it would lead to significant change and a constitutional upheaval, and I think that is now happening).

What i’m saying in effect is that Westminster can no longer be an avenue for the Owen Smiths of Wales. England will no longer tolerate the thought of a Welshman/Welshwoman near the levers of power. One could even argue that this was a popular sentiment at the time of Neil Kinnock in the eighties- so think how resonant it would be in our particular time!!

Such aspiring politicans will have to make do with Wales in future, which can only fuel the Independence cause here in our country. Adam Price, one of Plaid Cymru’s leading lights, has even predicted it will be the Labour party who will eventually lead Wales to Independence. Time will tell…….

comedy gold!

Someone should let potential Scottish Labour voters know that their Scottish leader, Kezia Dugdale, supports a man, Owen Smith, who wants to privatise the NHS, is directly involved in Pfizer’s funding of Blairite right wing entryist group Progress, is a strong supporter of Trident and assiduously courts the arms industry. He is a regular at defence industry events. Perhaps most crucially of all, Owen Smith joined his fellow Red Tories in abstaining on the Tory welfare benefit cuts.”

Left wing Smith my backside.

link to craigmurray.org.uk

Cymru Rydd,
well said.

@Jack Collatin @Tinto Chiel,

Clive Jenkins. Saints preserve us! I had forgotten him! I was a member of ASTMS long ago.

link to en.wikipedia.org

Clootie wrote:

“To imply that someone who joined the Independence movement as a 16 year old and dedicated their life to it is not fully committed is nonsense.”

Clootie, i remember watching a documentary on her (or was it a news piece?) way last year and can remember learning that Nicola’s commitment took place long before her teens.

If memory serves me correctly she was active around the age of eight or nine (possibly younger?) going round the doors posting leaflets to help either her mother? Aunty? or a local SNP candidate who lived quite near to her?

Mhairi Black is another very inspirational character who, in her teens, regularly stood in Paisley High Street dishing out leaflets and the rest, as they say, is history!

BTW: Anyone interested in getting on with things and using their own initiative to create a leaflet of ‘SC’ guide to voting tactics or whatever message you want to send, you can get 1000 quality flyers for £15 or 5000 quality flyers for £33 at Vistaprint. There will be other rates from various companies so do your homework and use whatever suits you best.

And don’t forget to tweak ‘SC’ advice to suit the constituency that you live in. Research the details and find out who’s standing for who etc. Good luck, troops!

Also works very well here:

link to youtube.com
“Quicksand, quicksand.. splendid”

Nice speech Omen Smith!

Tinto, Couldn’t agree more. Also Francoise Hardy, and Julie Christie.
Nowadays, the Young Turks have to put up with no talent ‘celebrities’.

In fairness to Dugdale, it’s hard to tell whether she’s doing a good job or not because the job she has is an almost impossible one to do.