Normal service resumed
In the spirit of straight talking, honest politics, I’m going to put my cards on the table right now: I’m a Corbyn voter. As a classic hand-wringing, middle-class, North London leftie, the mad fact of Jeremy Corbyn’s candidacy compelled me to register as a Labour supporter; empowered me to bet £3 on the foolish notion that Something More might somehow, suddenly, be achievable.
In no small part, I was inspired to do this by what happened in Scotland this year. I’m sure many of us were: finally, a viable political force south of Berwick was willing to show two fingers to austerity.
And if anyone called us out, if they told us we were crazy and that nobody would vote for such a “loony”, “radical”, “hard-left” candidate? Well, then we had a perfect example just north of the border to throw back at them. The SNP had hoovered up 50% of the vote on an anti-austerity ticket, and after all, aren’t we one nation? One people fighting for a common cause, et cetera? Couldn’t we put labels aside and work together?
So yes, I registered as a supporter and took a punt on Jeremy. The rest is history. If this were a film, we’d now have a montage of increasingly bonkers Telegraph front pages, spinning towards the screen, taking us from 12 September through to today: to Brighton, and to John McDonnell.
All the talk this morning was that the Shadow Chancellor’s conference speech would be “dull”, that he would be self-consciously “boring” in an attempt to dispel the prevailing media narrative that portrays him as an overly-excitable Jack Russell sort of terrorist running dog scampering around befouling our once-great nation: smashing our Charles & Diana engagement crockery, weeing on the rug we bought with our city bonuses and growling at our fine China.
So, yes. Boredom. Avuncularity. Steadiness. Dependability. They were the watch words. It was a tactic that had worked well for Corbyn in his first PMQs: a display of sincerity where point-scoring took a back seat to acting like a god-damned grown up and reminding everybody what a politician’s job is supposed to entail.
Come on, Corbyn was saying: we may be so inbred as a political class that we can no longer tell a good dinner from a viable sexual partner, but let’s at least get the basics right. Let’s at least do that.
Today, John McDonnell did a lot of the basics very right indeed. He held out an olive branch to the party’s disgruntled Blairites, while stressing the importance of an inclusive democratic process in the formation of Labour party policy. He didn’t use any fruity language and managed to stop short of proposing intifada as a legitimate option by which to take back number 10.
He did all this while successfully pandering to those of us who have been waiting for a viable alternative to austerity for so long that we are now utterly sick of the phrase “viable alternative to austerity”. He explained, in simple terms, that deficit reduction and austerity are not synonyms. He brought out the big guns: Stiglitz, Piketty. He sweated a little, and stumbled over a couple of words, but damn if he didn’t look authoritative. Avuncular. Steady. Dependable.
However, his speech was not as dull as promised; it stopped just short of boring. In just a couple of sweeping remarks, McDonnell managed to piss off half of Scotland, and at the same time those of us who believed in the message of straight talking, honest politics. Those of us who believed that a politician could claim to be above petty, nonsensical point scoring, and mean it.
The Shadow Chancellor addressed the people of Scotland for a good thirty seconds, and this was the key line of his message:
A country full of people scratched their heads. When the hell did that happen? While the rest of the UK has focused on the recent Westminster hoopla, has Nicola Sturgeon taken off her human mask to reveal the lizard that Jim Murphy always suspected was underneath? Something must be going on – after all, John McDonnell is Corbyn’s boy, right? A new politician? Someone we can trust? A man above pettiness, above point scoring? Above distorting the facts?
And to be honest, I still really, really want to believe that there’s been some big mistake. That that McDonnell has been very badly misled by a mischievous McTernanite advisor, or someone from Scottish Labour who hasn’t yet read the memo: you know, the one that reads We Do Things Differently Now.
But this wasn’t an off-the-cuff interview, or some rush-job for the late-night telly audience. This was a conference speech. A billboard event. Twenty minutes that you really, truly, need to stand behind and, really, truly, ought to bloody well fact check.
Now, it turns out that once you unpack McDonnell’s accusations they’re technically true. In fact, the way the whole routine was spun is on one level pretty clever, and I doff my cynic hat to whoever thought it up.
Holyrood is a fascinating parliament for many reasons, not least of which being the fact that the government and their primary opposition are both identify as centre-left parties. This means that the opposition (currently: Labour) is able to use bill and motion amendments in quite a sneaky way.
Take, for example, the debate around “An End to In-work Poverty”, a fairly innocuous motion brought by Green MSP Alison Johnstone and discussed in March 2015. Motions like these act as way for Holyrood to send a message to Westminster, on behalf of the Scottish people, on undevolved matters.
In this case, the motion resolved that “this Parliament… considers that the level of poverty and inequality at work must be addressed by an incoming UK Government”. Policy suggestions were put forward: a “£10 minimum wage by 2020, maximum ratios between highest and lowest pay within organisations, a wealth tax on the assets of the top 1% and a move toward a citizens’ income.”
All pretty innocent. It’s essentially a bland, cross-party statement requesting, in broad terms, that an incoming UK Government might want to think about being nice to the working poor. Given Holyrood’s political make-up, it’s no surprise that the motion eventually passed thanks to a large cross-party majority.
But not without debate: Labour’s Neil Findlay proposed an amendment to the bill which would have replaced the final paragraph with the following:
“[this Parliament] notes that the Scottish Government’s own statistics show that, under the last Labour administration, the number of people in in-work poverty fell by 30,000 and the number in absolute poverty fell by over half a million; recognises that, since 2006-07, the number of people in in-work poverty has increased by 50,000; notes that 414,000 people across Scotland would benefit from Scottish Labour’s plans to extend the payment of the living wage, incentivising more businesses to pay the living wage by using Make Work Pay contracts and increasing the national minimum wage to £8; believes that these actions, alongside the banning of exploitative zero-hours contracts, will improve the lives of working people across Scotland, and calls on the Scottish Government to amend the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 to extend the payment of the living wage to public sector contracts”
I don’t blame you if you couldn’t be bothered to wade through that wall of words and numbers: suffice it to say, Findlay took a well-meaning message of support to the working poor, and tried to turn it into a screed full of anti-SNP, pro-Labour statistics, advertising Labour’s snappily-branded “Make Work Pay contracts”.
Whether his figures were right or wrong, and whatever the merits of Labour’s plans for the living wage, this should be taken for what it is: a rhetorical blast against the SNP which never had a cat in hell’s chance of making the final motion. Predictably, it was shot down in flames.
But look at the final sentence: “[This Parliament] calls on the Scottish Government… to extend the payment of the living wage to public sector contracts”.
This is the cunning bit. The SNP were always going to vote down an amendment which directly attacked their record in government – notwithstanding the fact that such a partisan Scot-specific broadside would look bizarre in the middle of a message that was intended for the UK Government.
However, by including a line about paying the living wage to public sector workers, Findlay was able to force a situation in which the SNP technically voted “against the living wage”. After all, you can’t pick and choose which bits of an amendment to vote for: it’s yes or no to the whole thing.
So yes, the SNP – in an abstract and meaningless sense, in regard to actions of another government they had no power over – “voted against the living wage”, and mendacious Labour politicians now had a flimsy stick to hit them with. It’s British party politics at its finest: dancing around the margins of a debate, scoring petty little points that evaporate as soon as you scrutinise them.
Precisely the kind of tactics, in other words, that New Old Labour tell us have just been consigned to the dustbin of history.
“Let’s be clear: the SNP has now voted against the living wage…”
No, let’s be clear, John – they haven’t. This isn’t even a Harman-esque abstention we’re talking about. It’s nothing: a distortion of the flimsiest of truths, and something that a playground bully would be ashamed of using as ammunition.
We might as well do the other two while we’re here, although you can probably deduce the thrust of proceedings from the above.
“the SNP voted against fair taxes in Scotland to spend on schools”.
Sigh. Let’s read the amendment together, shall we? This time, it’s Labour’s Iain Gray, tabling an amendment to a thrilling SNP motion entitled Building on Scotland’s Educational Success. Again, here’s the full text of the amendment (the transcript isn’t online yet, but you can watch the debate in question here:
“[This Parliament] recognises that there are over 4,000 fewer teachers in Scottish schools than there were when the SNP administration came to power in 2007, class sizes are rising, over 6,000 pupils left primary school in 2014 with a poor standard of reading, the most deprived fifth of pupils in Scotland are half as likely to achieve one or more Highers and go on to higher education as the least deprived fifth and there are 140,000 fewer college students than in 2007; believes that Scotland must do much more to raise educational standards and close the attainment gap; supports an end to funding cuts for further education, and commits to an investment in additional literacy specialists in schools funded from a 50p top rate of Scottish income tax when power over income tax rates and bands becomes devolved”.
It’s the same basic story: a fair proposition (that Scotland should use proceeds from a future 50p tax rate to increase school spending) but front-loaded with enough anti-SNP rhetoric to make it sure to be struck down. It’s the plot of “The Producers” played out for political ends: make it certain to fail and reap the rewards.
Finally, McDonnell’s claim that the SNP has voted “against capping rent levels” seems to relate to the Scottish Housing Bill 2014. For the bill’s third reading in June that year, Labour MSP James Kelly introduced an amendment, the wording for which doesn’t appear to be online.
The full report of the debate, however, is in the public record. In it Kelly eloquently described many of the problems facing private renters in Scotland , and argued that rent caps were the only way to truly combat the issue.
In response, however, the SNP’s Margaret Burgess argued that, although rent caps sounded like a good idea, they shouldn’t be rushed through. A consultation on rent levels was already due to begin “in the autumn” (ie of 2014): too late for the Housing Bill, but the wheels of progress grind slowly.
Again, the rights and wrongs of Kelly and Burgess’ arguments aren’t really important here. The point is that the SNP has not truly voted “against capping rent levels”. Rather, they shot down an eleventh-hour, highly partisan hostile amendment to a Bill that had been three years in the making.
As attractive as the idea of a rent cap is (amongst both Labour and SNP supporters), Kelly could not seriously have believed for a moment that such a huge measure could be forced through in such a way: this is precisely the kind of thing that Governments are supposed to think very carefully about before they sign on the dotted line.
But that was never Kelly’s objective. Once more: make it certain to fail, and reap the rewards in political points, on the key assumption that the public are too dumb to see through the charade.
I’m not suggesting that the SNP are above such tactics themselves, by the way. I’m sure they pull this kind of stunt all the time – or at least, did when they were the Holyrood opposition.
That’s the nature of politics, after all. Just one reason why we all hate it and lots of us gave up on voting until last year. Just one reason why we want so desperately to believe in someone who refuses to play the game this way. Someone who plays it straight. Someone who’s honest with us.
“Let’s be clear: the SNP has now voted against the living wage, against capping rent levels, and just last week voted against fair taxes in Scotland to spend on schools”.
This is “straight talking” is it, John? This is “honest politics”? It’s incredible, and more than a little sad, that such mealy-mouthed, disingenuous quarter-truths snuck into an otherwise elegantly poised and well-tempered speech.
I suppose it was a good to have a couple of week’s respite from the old way of doing things, at least. From now on, evidently, it’s back to business as usual.
What chance of Labour working with SNP to oppose Tories? Hardly any at all, in my opinion.
Thanks for that Ed. Well up to Stu’s high standard of analysis
It just means that the SG have to up their game. They need to play the same game. Why not put forward a separate amendment after reject the SLAB one?
And have they asked to be on TV/ Radio on the same day???
Labour would do well to start opposing Government stuff, and stop with the party silliness. They’re a baw-hair away from a party civil war.
You might have expected change from the ‘old’ Labour approach my friend but most of us north of the border didn’t!
A fine piece of writing, Ed!
A new ‘subbie’ on WOS?
8=)
finally i understand the minutiae of the baffling nonsense mcdonnell was gabbling about
This is totally pissing me off. For every lie Labour launch I will take on another street to leaflet and canvass for Holyrood2016. When we’re done with Labour we will turn to BBCScotland.
We knew that, but even the folk who didn’t,know there’s no way the SNP would do the dirty on Scotland because the SNP unlike Unionist parties understand the principle of working for the people, and their position exists through trust to serve those people
Ach! Mr. Ed Millington, yons a muckle wheen o lang inglis wirds tae scance jist tae lairn yon Labour gadgies spak richt afu pish!
Brilliant dissection of a disingenuous Labour party more interested in petty point scoring than the REAL interests of the public they are supposed to represent.
Normal service has been resumed! Not that I had any doubts that it wouldn’t be in the first place.
Leopards and spots, these guys have has so many chances to get their act together its not really a surprise that they think they can get away with saying whatever they want as often as they want… particularly when they are never seriously questioned on it by their friends in the MSM.
The SNP performed a constructive role in opposition at Holyrood, they could do no less since SLAB had the Brit Nat Brainwashing Corp eating out of its London soiled hands. At least that is my memory of it as a one time Labour voter. The same couldn’t be said for SLAB 99% of the time.
SLAB councils aren’t exactly enacting rent caps on its own council housing tenants and that is the reality of the bare faced SLAB/Brit Nat hypocrisy. They really need to put their own house in order first before slagging off the SNP. I will order my pine box now because we know that isn’t going to happen.
Thanks for the insight Ed – very well explained. Apparently Labour attempt these schoolyard tactics all the time and waste a lot of opportunities to improve things by carping & point scoring.
Its kinda like being influenced by misleading headlines before deciphering veiled news stories here in Scotland; a great Daily Record / Daily Mirror trick.
Or kinda like listening to the gibberish that Kezia Dugdale spouts daily or the double speak of Iain Murray (Labours only MP). Is there some sort of New Labour indoctrination centre where the dark arts of timewasting and chicanery are taught?
In short this is why no one trusts Labour anymore.
I think McDonnell’s comments today and Corbyn’s on the Marr show with regard to Scotland, highlight the fact that in the whole of the UK Labour Party, the northern branch are the most treacherous, vindictive, weak, trough seeking bunch of lickspittles that the Labour Party has ever known.
Scotland will be a better place without them.
These petty politicking tactics rely on the latitude given to parliamentarians allowing them to lie and mislead in public life.
They should face sanctions (at least suspension from the chamber and committees) for attempting to mislead parliament. I would call it perjury (without the Coulson loopholes) and make them liable to criminal charges.
Nice work Ed. Its a pain wading through the detail and serious work to lay it out so clearly. Overall the whole tactic seems a bit clutching at straws and just a bit daft.
@george says: 28 September, 2015 at 8:32 pm:
“finally i understand the minutiae of the baffling nonsense mcdonnell was gabbling about.”
Well, George, I’d say you are extremely clever for no one else, including McDonnell himself, understood what he was gabbling about.
I conclude there can be only one sane explanation of the very recent tactics of the old new NuLabour leadership.
They have become so extremely frightened by the enormity of what they have done, and the situation they now find themselves in. Panic has set in and they aim to get themselves returned swiftly to the back benches where their real comfort zone resides.
They seem as out of place as Labour leaders as a Ham Sandwich at a bar mitzvah or bat mitzvah, (It literally translate as, “son of commandment” and “daughter of commandment”, and is a coming of age Jewish ritual).
Excellent piece, and finally lifts the lids on what McDonnell was wittering on about. As someone who doesn’t take a lot of notice on the day to day running of the SP, I can’t believe the childish mentality of anyone who would stoop to such tactics.
And then have a senior shadow minister spout them as fact?
I just don’t get the SNPBAD rhetoric eminating from Labour last few days. There’s a far larger and more deserving target in blue on the opposite side of Parliment, one that the SNP would be more than happy to help in targetting.
But it seems they’d rather carp from the sidelines…
Do you know what Ed? I really feel for you, you felt inspired to join Labour in the belief that Corbyn and Co would genuinely change the way Labour conducted themselves and your tag line “Normal Service Resumed” must have felt like a stab to your heart to type.
I voted Labour all my life and after the 19th September 2014, I joined the SNP, my eyes got opened as to how Labour conducted themselves here in Scotland and hundreds of thousands felt the same way, as the saying goes “I never left Labour, Labour left me”.
I am genuinely am gutted for you
I hate these lying toads. May they rot in hell. And by they way to all who believe this crap for heaven’s sake wake up. Corbyn make a difference! Aye right!
All the unionists spout from their waste expulsion pipes
Very good piece Ed.
‘In just a couple of sweeping remarks, McDonnell managed to piss off half of Scotland’
Which half of Scotland? What Labour say and do has no effect on me whatsoever! I have absolutely no interest in Labour. Way back in 2007 I did occasionally make some suggestions online what I thought Labour were doing wrong and did occasionally get a bit wound up but now quite frankly my dear I really don’t give a damn.
I enjoyed reading your article Ed and had a laugh when I read the line ‘no longer tell a good dinner from a viable sexual partner’
After watching a clip of John McDonnell, the unmistakable similarity dawned on me: the shadow chancellor IS the new Norman Tebbit!!!! watch his delivery and see what i mean!!!
Has anyone else noticed this? Or should I stop taking my meds?
Same old lying and deceptive red tories. Sad, really.
A damned good article, Ed.
To be honest, I think the mask has slipped quite considerably over the last week since Corbyn’s announcement as party leader.
This is a party that has inherited schizophrenic tendencies (especially in Scotland over the last few years); believes that it has solved all its key problems without discussing them, and is prancing around pretending everything is fine and dandy in their house for as long as they stay away from ‘dodgy’ subjects. Everything is grand!
Except that it is not.
In reality, the house of Labour seems to be one of strained smiles and a few good chuckles. But it is blatantly obvious that this house is like one that has the ‘mad woman in the attic’. They all know she’s there, but no one wants to talk about her …and yet, at somepoint, they will all have to eventually go there.
– They won’t discuss Trident.
– They won’t tell us what Scotland should be getting as part of their devolvement if a Labour Government came to power
– They won’t say if Scottish Labour is independent or still known as the ‘Scottish Branch’
– They won’t really tell us their key policies.
As you say, Ed, it just seems to be business as usual. Without really knowing Corbyn (because after all, and let’s all be honest here …who had honestly heard of Jeremy Corbyn before the leadership battle kicked off), we have no idea how determined he is; whether he fluctuates from one idea to the next and back again; whether he will fold on pressure; whether he is a control freak; or whether he really, really is out of his depth!
We know nothing about this guy really. And neither do Labour.
For everyone outside of Labour, this is an internal Labour phoney war. For the neutral, we know what is coming, but so far on observation, no one has said anything controversial within the party. It all appears to be smiles.
But just wait until they finally really do have to enter the attic. Just wait until we finally get around to that vote on Trident. Then we will see the real Jeremy Corbyn …and very possibly, the real Labour too.
For me …I think Blairite Labour is just sitting in the wings, quietly smiling to itself, and waiting for its ‘told you so’ return. Who knows…
Corbyn raised the hopes of many people that he’d bring a different way of working, this maverick, thorn in the side of New Labour. However, it’s quite clear Corbyn is completely indifferent to anything occurring north of Watford, unless of course it’s “abroad”. He’s the epitome of a lazy, incurious London politician.
Though it may seem that he rebelled against his party a zillion times, given he had the security of a safe seat it looks increasingly likely that he was simply indulging in personal gratification and to hell with the rest of the electorate.
How hollow his claims sound, made both during and since the Labour leadership election, that he cares about the poor in Glasgow and the poor in Birmingham. Could he find these places on a map? And would he need innoculation before visiting?
Another, perhaps more trivial, claim he made during the Marr interview was that he’d visited Scotland “lots of times during the leadership contest.” As far as I’m aware he spent two days holding public meetings in four cities (two per day). I’m not aware of any further, separate visits.
During the leadership campaign, people marvelled at the fact that, unlike his competitors, he didn’t obfuscate or waffle but gave straight answers. Since then, however, his comments on Scotland and the SNP beg the question, was there ever a word of truth in anything he said?
I agree with you Craig I feel sorry for people like Ed voters in England don’t have much of a choice can you imagine what it would be like in Scotland if we didn’t have the SNP?
The best thing Ed could do would be to move to Scotland.
@Anagach says: 28 September, 2015 at 9:06 pm:
“Nice work Ed. Its a pain wading through the detail and serious work to lay it out so clearly. Overall the whole tactic seems a bit clutching at straws and just a bit daft.”
I do actually agree with you, Anagash, me wee ironic post up-thread was not aimed at Ed but at the numpties now leading the Labour Party.
We have seen both the Scottish leadership and the UK leadership of the Labour Party change with great, multi-instrumental fanfares and the further unfurling of red Flags and Butcher’s Aprons.
The proclamations of the British Media heralded new directions and a revival of old Labour values. Trouble is none of the new old-Labour lot seem to remember what those old Labour values actually were.
Thank goodness for the speeches from the “left” new/old Labour. I was worried that Mr Corbyn would pull back some of the old Labour voters if he had carried on with his rhetoric.
It just shows that no matter what we’re told, nothing changes, you Scots get back in your kennels.
Yes Ed,and that is why we trust Labour—not a jot.
Different style.Same lies.
A very well written and researched article – more please!
Only a thudding idiot of no fixed brain thinks an English-orientated political party of any hue, of any ideology, will somehow, some way, switch the balance of its policies, even for a limited time, to help eradicate Scotland’s political omissions, and sell it to the English as the hand of friendship with ‘North Britain’.
All English parties must, by definition, and by survival, appeal to middle-England. Scotland is of no consequence to them, except when they attain power at Westminster.
Only then does it dawns on them they need Scotland.
Without Scotland, England becomes a poxy little nation with little or no influence internationally.
So, since the people of Scotland didn’t vote for them, they must control Scotland by other means, never fair, always foul.
Captain Corbyn and his jolly Union Jack tars are no different.
As I pointed out in previous thread Corbyn is a damp squib.
We can exepect Nothing, from Labour north or south.
They are not called the most devious party for nothing.
They are historically responsible for many of Scotland’s troubles across the board. We can never trust them.
They should crawl back under their shitty rocks, for sure they are the last thing Scotland needs, now or in the future.
Get that Jeremy!
[…] Normal service resumed […]
In just 2 days the new Labour leadership lost all credibility in Scotland
A great article Ed. I for one am delighted labour are returning to their well worn furrow. For a few weeks there was a little uneasiness I detected from those of us concerned the new order down south would be a game changer, shifting labour to the left and ushering in a new politics down south that could steal the initiative from the SNP.
Had Corbyn and his team taken a conciliatory stance and begun creating a credible, positive platform across the UK there was a risk of a positive alternative being attractive to former labour voters, and shifting the locus for Scots down south again.
Glad to see that they have reverted to form and are taking their cue from Neil Findlay and going down the SNP bad road. You can just imagine the conversation:
“How are we going to win back all the yes voters to the party how are we going to bring them home to labour? We tried using McTernan, we tried MacDougall, we tried Jim Murphy, Kezia’s dirtied her ticket…. none of the big hitters have dented the SNP. Who do we have left?”
“Left… who do we have left? Left? Wait, I’ve got it! Sarah Boyack! Get her on the blower. Fuck- I’m getting her voice mail. What about Katy Clarke? She’s at least proper old labour… she’s gone you say. What about that guy, I want to say Neil… did some press stuff during the campaign? Keep trying Boyack….”
The dude who was soundly beaten by Jim Murphy in the leadership election is running the plays for Corbyn up here it seems. At the moment labour needed to change it up, to change the narrative and learn from past failings, they pull out the well thumbed playbook and speed dialed slab quay.
We could hardly have asked for a better outcome. Labour in Scotland don’t need a fresh start, or to start listening or whatever drivel Kezia projects – they need a priest.
Nicola must be laughing her arse off as she plots how to tear Kezia a new one week after week. You could drive a cart horse through the holes in left wing rhetoric and right wing labour members and actions, between their attacks on the SNP record and the reality of labour’s record in Scotland and the UK.
And let’s not forget – almost the SNP’s entire reign has been spent in this financial mire whilst labour failed during the good times.
Ps great to see so many friends old and new on Saturday night. Thanks to Ronnie and Brian for organising. Guid times, Wingers x
RT’s view of OFCOM investigations – some based on BBC complaints link to rt.com
NOTE that RT cannot take the BBC to OFCOM
An excellent article. And I should apologise to those with whom I had argued on earlier threads. I thought that Corbyn would end Labour’s stupid hostility to Scottish independence. Taking Corbyn on Marr together with MacDonnell today, it seems my judgement was very wrong. Apologies.
They say most politicians lie, but surely the blatant lies coming from the poor mans Waldorf and Statler is slanderous.
The SNP has to start taking action regarding the unionist parties never ending series of lies etc.
But then again Labour “Don’t get it and never will”
The only way back for Labour in Scotland I can see now is for the SNP to do something so catastrophically bonkers that they render themselves unelectable and folk end up voting Labour again through (wrongly) feeling there is no other option.
It could all have been so different. Imagine if SLAB had acted as a constructive opposition tabling amendments with the aim of improving government policy rather than petty SNPBad grandstanding. Had they adopted that from 2007 we might not have had an SNP government in 2011, no indyref and no damaging Better Together campaign.
Don’t get me wrong I’m passionately pro-indy and was already very disillusioned with Labour over it’s shameful treatment of benefit claimants and asylum seekers and it’s lies over Iraq so can’t see I’m not enjoying it’s current woes to an extent. Nevertheless it’s hard to watch at not wince at such bone headed stupidity.
I think it’s worth expanding on Neil Findlay’s amendment a little further. Even if Findlay had not included any rhetorical blast in his amendment, it’s worth emphasising that the section which:
… calls on the Scottish Government to amend the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 to extend the payment of the living wage to public sector contracts”
Can’t be legally implemented by Holyrood. Under the terms of the Scotland Act, Holyrood cannot pass laws that break EU law, and as the EU commission pointed out when they were asked by Alex Neil: making public sector contracts conditional on the contractor paying the living wage to its staff breaks the Posting of Workers Directive for so long as that Living Wage is higher than the minimum wage.
The source to that is here as a pdf
Thanks for such a good explanation of it all, to say the least!
However SLabour dudes like this dude parrot the new new Labour party thusly
link to twitter.com
Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 5h5 hours ago
So the answer to the question: “Did SNP really oppose Living Wage, rent caps & fairer tax?” is “Yes. Only Labour puts people above flags.”
RT’d by
Blair McDougall ?@blairmcdougall Sep 27
The angries are very angry today. Talk for months about how they’re failing schools & silence. Talk about flags & they explode.
Explosion or head shaking at their tawdry same ol same ol.
So much for any cooperation against the tories. No anti Scots ‘national’ anthem,then there will be next time,trident debate then no trident debate then Mr Corbyn’s remarks are basically repeated by Mr McDonnell today.
Even though unionists lost 50 seats (40 of them Labours alone) round 2 is coming up fast,the same distance that they were out from a general election last September and they face the same again. Don’t they yet wonder why?
Thinking of voting labour?? Think again!!
link to caltonjock.com
As this site’s resident Scrooge, does the Rev pay enough to make money on your investment?
If it was for love, remember that you got 16 days of hope for your £3. We have to pay much more ( proportionately £68.44) for the Rev to keep us sane and hopeful for a full year 🙁
An absolutely brilliant investigative effort to break down the most deceitful of 30 word statements from the Labour leadership. It’s sickening, but represents the reality of that party.
This for me, perfectly summarises in a nutshell what we can expect from Labour; more of the same.
It’s crystal clear that despite the change at the top and claims of policy change, one thing will never change: The Unionist Labour Party are not in the slightest interested in the good of Scotland’s people.
Labour are a toxic disgrace.
I think Mhairi Black will feel really let down by Corbyn’s antics. She thought that she could do a bit of business with Corbyn. She thought that they were on a par with a lot of the SNPs policies.
Mhairi got caught up in the spin, along with hundreds of thousands of new Labour Party members. They must be feeling that they have been taken for mugs.
It will all end in one almighty mess and a lot of cancelled memberships.
When Labour were in power £600Billion was raised in taxes in the US + £150Billion (1/4 more) was borrowed and spent. – £750Billion. It left UK in £1.3Trillion in debt. Illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud.
Now £466Billion is raised in tax (nearly 1/4 less) and £90Billion is borrowed and spent. Scotland’s Block Grant has been cut by Westminster. Any cuts in Scotland are a result of Westminster policies.
Excellent ariticle analysing what Labour are doing. It’s all so crude and unsophisticated. What can they possibly hope to achieve?
I am genuinely puzzled as to why they are scuttling their own ships as far as Scotland is concerned.
The only thing I can think of is they are playing to the same English audience all the anti-Scottish stuff was targeting during the GE, and by jumping on that bandwagon, they are just walking away from Scotland.
Labour have gone too far down the Blairite path to ever turn back.
Corbyn is simply yesterday’s man. Full of good intentions, but not brave enough to change.
The latest anti Scottish stuff sums up the level of his insularity and ignorance. I refuse to be scolded on what’s good for my nation by a Londonder 400 miles away. We have had it with other people telling us who we are and what we should think.
Corbyn the pacifist won’t even debate Trident. An idealist with no ideals.
Rip Slab.
Very disappointed with Jeremy and John, misleading the public is better left to the tories and new labour.
This disappointment is coupled with the dropping of trident debate and other scared policies being sacrificed. Also towing UNITE’s line is equally disappointing as it now appears jobs and not defence are the main reasons for maintaining weapons of mass destruction on the Clyde.
Unless Jeremy and John come to their senses it is unlikely the SNP can work with them. This suits labour in Scotland who are fast trying to eliminate themselves from the electoral map!
What a let down. It’s only a game. No one believes a word they say.
Oblivion May 16/17. Deja Vu
I seem to recall the SNP were also into this sort of thing. I remember an SNP bill to extend free school meals included a good deal about how independence would make this matter even better. Labour voted against and were slated for it
Can’t wait for the BBC reports of this tosh tomorrow
Tokyo Kaye’s call in has got to give it 2 hours at least
We simply can’t believe anything the unionists say
The main man Corbyn has his big Conference speech tomorrow.
I wonder how many lies about the SNP will be told to the world, because don’t forget, he is talking to a world audience.
He not just running down the SNP but also the Scottish people.
Only then does it dawn on Labour it needs Scotland.
Without Scotland, England becomes a poxy little nation with little or no influence internationally.
And that’s also why Labour will keep Trident.
The ‘old’, ‘new’ labour party is as much of a fraud as the old ‘new labour’ party. Corbyn & McDonnell have shown that no matter how pretendy socialist they may appear they ONLY have the good of the british establishment at heart. That was the message they were giving. It wasn’t meant for us.
@Craig Murray, appreciate your honesty about Corbyn. I wish you had been right.
A decent wee read there Ed but,honest to Christ the contempt I have for the British Labour Party knows no bounds.
Ian Murray repeats McDonnell’s lies on SNP record over living wage, 50p tax rate etc on Scotland Tonight
Who are the real enemies of any policy even remotely left wing? Yes, the Tories of course but Corbyn and McDonnel use their new found profile to attack SNP instead of the real enemy.
How foolish and I must admit to expecting better, it would seem that Corbyn has decided to do exactly what his recently defeated candidate for the Labour leadership, Yvette Cooper asked for on twitter and that was to attack the SNP.
A left winger doing the bidding of an obvious right winger, what a blunder. Epic fail.
Oh look it’s Ian Murray and the S.N.P. BAAAD show … AGAIN! (YAWN)
link to youtube.com
I see on front page of tomorrows Rancid Graun Corbyn quoted as saying ‘British values are my driving force’.What like Imperialism and warmongering Jeremy ?
The bearded old maggot will be quoting that other Great British Nationalist Socialist Gordon Brown next ‘British jobs for British workers’.
British lefties.What are they like 🙂
Incredibly short-sighted and tribal behaviour from Corbyn and McDonnell. It should be extremely damaging for them, but I’m sure BBC and STV will do their best to smoothe it all over.
Such is Scotland today: an obscene democratic deficit where Labour lies are never challenged and the SNP Bad mantra is repeated endlessly on Scottish PravdaVision.
And well said, Craig Murray. The thing is, honest people tend to trust others first, until evidence to the contrary is discovered. Labour don’t really understand that they have permanently alienated huge numbers of their traditional support in Scotland by their mendacity.
It’s pathological and irreversible and in a healthy democracy this would ensure its quick extinction: it’s just that we don’t live in such a society.
Absolutely stonking article. Bravo.
Pin. Garbage analogy, don’t give up your day job.
Adding that things could be a lot better with full control(independence),to a bill. Is not on the same planet as asking the government to agree they are a failure and agree with the proposition thereafter.
One is a negative comment on a party, and the other is a positive request for control of the resources.
Corbyn to give a Rule Britannia speech tomorrow
The problem is the Scots. Because we had no media but BBC Labour from Pathetic Quay and the Hootsman and no decent YES campaign, we had to just learn everything for ourselves and do everything for ourselves.
The result is that Scots are probably better politicians than the “professional political class”.
Having said that, I don’t know what IQ Corbyn and co think we have if we would believe, just on the power of what they say, that the SNP is some sort of austerity-loving Tory Party!
Nice article. I can never understand the English leftie infatuation with the Labour Party, when there is a perfectly decent Green Party. I can only presume it is because of the aura of “power” and “Parliamentary seats”, rather than the desire to improve people’s lives and help your fellow man…
Thank you Ed Millington for this well informed and welcome perspective from England.
If I can just add, my derision is for the British political class in general,not your decent minded layman’s contribution.
Tinto Chiel says:
“in a healthy democracy this would ensure its quick extinction: ”
We have to settle for a slow extinction.
If independence is inevitable, then so will be the complete disappearance of unionist parties.
There was a time when I remember postings discussing a political life after Indy for Lab, LibDem and Con where they would accept the changes and contribute loyally to Scotland’s development. It seemed genuinely possible.
I don’t believe that now. I think they will, like their Union, simply cease to exist.
Kenny to be honest. I seriously believe Corbyn thinks the 51% that voted SNP. Are like fanatics following a football team.
He thinks it’s all about William Wallace and Bagpipes for us. The truth is most of us are very sophisticated deep thinkers on the Yes side. We represent a broad spectrum of opinion. But we agree we are a nation and need to come together to help the nation.
Corbyn thinks we are just a tribe.
Pin: I seem to recall the SNP were also into this sort of thing
Aye. And for over 300 years Westminster has been saying the Union benefits Scotland as much as England.
Big Jock says:
“Corbyn … thinks it’s all about William Wallace and Bagpipes for us.”
The misrepresentation and misunderstanding down south of what the Scottish pro-Indy movement is actually about, never ceases to amaze me.
They think we are anti-English, is a widespread believe. They seem to have to no idea of how ‘broad a church’ we have.
Of course they are often blind to their own nationalism and critical of ours. And, they see our nationalism in a negative way rather than the civic quest for self determination
The dark forces of Unionism perpetuate this ignorance in order to generate propaganda. However, you get the distinct impression so many in responsible positions haven’t actually gone to the trouble of educating themselves and actually believe the propaganda!.
Big Jock
You are right.
I could table an amendment saying that ” all the SNP government are thieves and perverts and I wish to double the old age pension.”
When this is rejected I simply say that the SNP voted down my proposal for increased pensions.
Since those saps, I mean new Labour Party members bought into the Corbyn vision, he has now back tracked on:
Nato withrawal
Trident renewal
Fight against Austerity
EU withdrawal
and son on…
Why did they take months to elect a new leader, only to slap him down every time he opens his mouth.
Just seen a picture of Corbyn on Sky News.He was reclining wearing red socks,blue sandals,and white shirt.
Who needs flags when you are a walking butcher’s apron eh Jerry boy ?
Same tailor as Ian Murray perhaps, but from his anti-fashion collection.
O/T but quite humourous I think you’ll agree. Our “friend” from Morningside makes an appearance albeit fleetingly. A note of caution, you may require to watch more than once to catch all the tantalising glimpses of text…
link to youtube.com
Is that John Mcternan on News night right now?
Stephen.
So it’s definite then there’ll be a debate on whether Kezia’s in charge or just pretendy in charge then
Is she in, or is she out,
Err Yer Trident shake it all about
C’mon Kezia I dare you to make an irreversible decision
You know you want to
Excellent article. It shows to me just how easily people, myself included, were so easily misled before the days of the Internet when we relied on the newspapers.
O/T Or maybe not.
The Scotsman’s supposed to be doing a big make over tomorrow.
A new, inclusive attitude, more opinions, the whole nine yards.
The front office suits must have got a kick in the pinstripes from that Malaysian Tamil recluse who owns them that pissing off readers and chasing away circulation is a mug’s game.
So has the Phoenix risen yet? Or was it all just corral sweepings? And just more of the same from their grumpy grandpas.
The fragrant Leslie excluded of course.
So basically speaking:
“[this Parliament] notes that people die of old age, that the SNP are a load of rubbish, that Labour are well-preserved saints, and calls on the Scottish Government to extend the life of all Scots”.
Oh, they voted against long life for Scots.
caz-m says:
28 September, 2015 at 11:36 pm
Since those saps, I mean new Labour Party members bought into the Corbyn vision, he has now back tracked on:
McDonnell Newsnight England thing there was pretty flat too, tobin City transaction tax is on, but only if its feasible. Vote new New Labour but only if its feasible.
McDonnell also against UK businesses shifting jobs to sweat shop slave wage far east, like Dyson, but he’s for globalisation too, as long as its done in a nice way.
You get the picture. Why oh why El Tone said Jeremy Corbyn’s politics are fantasy like Alice in Wonderland, is anyone guess.
England’s rights, England’s wrongs, the air is thick with England’s woes. My ears bleed from the sound of slashing self-abuse. Oh, what a narcissist we have for a neighbour.
Rancid The Graun dreary vote Lab header-
“Promising an adult debate rather than silly slogans that demeaned the complexity of the issues, McDonnell said he would commit Labour to increasing taxes if necessary, but his aides said he did not advocate a rise in the 50p rate of income tax.”
So McDonnell’s aides say he’s not going to go for his 50p rate, huh? why is he monstering SNP with “the SNP voted against fair taxes in Scotland to spend on schools”.
Its all a bit disorientating really. Bomber Blair must be enjoying the sound bite stuff too. No doubt Pacific Quay shills will have it all tidy for their SNP bad rage of the day tomorrow.
@ Ed Millington Question is Ed are you still in awe of the new new new Labour our party,or is it aw er fur you.
Thanks, Ed, for that clear analysis.
I must agree with Grouse Beater at 9.33, though.
Corbyn’s and McDonnell’s lies about Scotland aren’t symptoms of moral degeneracy in the political classes, or of ill-advised ignorance. They reflect the fundamental realpolitik of UK plc.
The British Left has long and fully accepted its role as the left wing of the Establishment – as a conservative force. They’re permitted to ask difficult questions, and occasionally to even implement progressive policies: on condition that they help preserve the territory and prestige of the State as a whole, and don’t interfere unduly with the City or the security state. By offering hope to the proles, they reduce the risk of unrest and instability. Seats in the Lords go to those who’re effective in that regard.
When it comes to UK’s structurally disenfranchised components (Scotland, NI, Wales), their only role is to make solidarity within the status quo seem more acceptable than autonomy. If they can do that well, they’ll get quite a bit of leeway in promoting socialist policies. If not, the full weight of the state and the media can be brought to bear on them.
A good case in point is George Galloway – a man who made a career of vocally opposing British imperialism, and demanding autonomy for every country on earth except the land of his birth. How much harder would his career have been made, if it wasn’t clear he was ultimately willing to be played as a unionist joker against Scotland?
@AlbertaScot
Does that mean that the “New Scotsman” may also be parting company with Brian Wilson just like the WHFP ?
Here’s hoping!
Still will not buy it though…
2016 SNP x2. A must.
Has Corbyn ever been in Scotland? I think on his first visit Scottish Labour will try to put on a bit of a show.
Then when the penny starts to drop that they have been conned, the novelty will wear off and the crowds will dwindle.
Watch your back Jeremy, the knives are out. The ides of March, Julius Caesar and all that.
Very good article Ed, you can take some small consolation that all you lost materially was £3 from your wallet, but I think the loss of your optimism is a much heavier blow for you to take.
I wondered whether after the election of Corbyn, Labour in Scotland would benefit from the halo effect of a new left wing leader. The events of the last couple of days have kicked that notion into touch.
However, when you examine Mr Corbyn’s history none of this is really a shock. He is epitome of the London-centric political class, he fits the caricature of the upper-middle class leftie, radical, based in Islington. This is a politician who stayed with his party through illegal wars, and the start of the attacks on the poor, who has voted more times for his party than against. He has returned, when under pressure, to his tribal roots, “SNP BAD!!!”
He has the look of someone completely out of his depth, who never thought he had a chance in a million of becoming leader. He is now flip-flopping on all his dearly held policies, Trident, let’s not talk about it; Republican, he didn’t know the words to GSQ but he will learn them; Peoples QE, we will follow the Tories lead in cutting the deficit. He is a man without a lifebelt, floundering about as he is pushed by his PLP onto the rocks.
All the while, the Blairites are watching and waiting, laughing to themselves as Jeremy floats by taking the last hopes of the Left with him. One truly scary thing for People in England like Ed, is that when Corbyn fails, as he will, it will be the end of the left wing of the Labour Party.
Don’t make me laugh Tam. The woman is either an outright lair or she has some pretty incredible and unbelievable gaps in her theoretical understanding of how stuff works – she denied all knowledge of “creative destruction” when I challenged her to her face about HS2 and it’s likely negative impacts on Scotland’s economy.
She is a One Nation Fabian ‘socialist’. A true blue BritNat.
George Orwell pointed out back in the 1930s that the Labour Party needed imperialism or prices for tea, coffee, etc. would jump up for the English working class if they let India go…
Same now with Scotland. If England let us go, oil, whisky and other exports vanish from the balance of payments and the £ would probably suffer a currency crisis. Bye bye to any seat at the UN and bye bye to any beloved nuclear weapons on UK soil.
Ireland can be let go, but Scotland… never!
@craig murray
No need to apologise, I wondered and hoped the same.
If Labour in Scotland did remain neutral, and genuinely so, that would be Independence almost certainly in the bag, and it would be worth the spectacle of them strutting around taking the credit, just to get the Independence.
I don’t think it was trust and expectation, just hope. Hope over emmm, disgust!
Hey Hoss. Yer a stud.
There’s a whole herd that I’d round up (Alberta cowboys calls this a “gather”) and ship them to the stockyards at Falkirk. Or is that drover thing just about done?
That Bill Jamieson for sure. Allan Massie you bet. (Did I butcher the spelling? Then too friggin’ bad. I ain’t gonna waste time Googling them up)
If I was a thinking man on the Scotsman editorial board I’d probably throw Stu a bone and give him a column.
Even though he bit their ass big time with that libel suit.
Sweet revenge!!! Right Pad’ner.
@geezmamoneyback
will be launched on twitter by new Labour Party members from Scotland,
very soon!
@Ken500
In fairness to Labour, the Conservatives added a lot. UK National debt by year:
FY 2015 £1.36 trillion *
FY 2014 £1.26 trillion
FY 2013 £1.19 trillion
FY 2012 £1.10 trillion
FY 2011 £0.91 trillion
FY 2010 £0.76 trillion
FY 2009 £0.62 trillion
FY 2008 £0.53 trillion
* Future National Debt is estimated by HM Treasury.
Yet another to keep not buying the Scotsman.
link to archive.is
“Teen admits Scottish referendum results day offences” illustrated by Yes flags & saltires.
Just UNBELIEVABLE!!! Scumbags!!!
Hi AlbertaScot.
You typed,
There’s a whole herd that I’d round up (Alberta cowboys calls this a “gather”) and ship them to the stockyards at Falkirk. Or is that drover thing just about done?
The ‘drover thing’ is still being sung about, onnyhoo…
link to youtube.com
Completely OT.
Just finished G.A.Ponsonby’s book “London Calling: How the BBC Stole the Referendum.”
Explosive stuff!
Started when SNP won 2007 election.
You wouldn’t believe the depths the BBC would go to – read the book to find out. It will make you very angry.
We absolutely need broadcasting devolved as well as Electoral Form Commission.
Well dissected and explained Mr Millington and yeah we’re aware of just exactly what Mr McDonnell was up to. I had a rough grasp of two of Mr McDonnell’s references, but I’d have bet good money the third would fall into the same category.
Spoiler tactics and point scoring, politics as it is practiced in the UK and aren’t we all sick to the back bloody teeth of all of it. What escapes all of the establishment parties is that Mr McDonnell’s tactics as applied above are the very tactics which promote so much rage in the electorate against the system and politics UK style.
A new politics, straight talking and honest. It lasted a fortnight and with a single interview and few throwaway and ill considered lines in a speech the whole paper thin sham was blown away over the space of a weekend. New politics, same as old politics, point scoring, tribalist, divisive, manipulative, condescending and ultimately destructive.
Mr Corbyn had ready and willing allies in chamber, 56 votes on tap and all he had to do was hold out an olive branch. Practice what he preached. We had apprehension certainly, we’ve been given little reason to trust the leadership of establishment parties in Scotland, but we also had hope that here was possibly a man we could do business with. As I say, one interview and one speech, it was back to business as usual. SNP bad, now give us your votes!
What a waste of an opportunity, for both England’s progressive left and the UKs politics in general. More importantly, what a waste of opportunity for a beleaguered electorate north and south of the border.
Both Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell have taken some well deserved pelters for their ill considered words. How they handle the aftermath of their catastrophic approach to the Scottish electorate will be watched with interest. If they’re smart, they will publicly retract and then offer that olive branch. They can explain it away however they like in terms of bad briefing, poor research, mystical policy elves on crack… whatever (shrugs), but in reality they won’t. It’s not in them to be the change.
And if the won’t, then I suspect Labour will reap a richly deserved reward in the Holyrood elections next year and effectively signal the end of the political union.
@Craig Murray
Well said.
I very much appreciate the explanation offered by this article, it brings to mind the line, “… now that this point had been explained, he thought it was a Cunning Trap” (link to acc.umu.se).
All rather depressing really. England needs a new party, but that might just as likely turn out to be something UKIP-esque as anything radical or socially progressive, and with no way to bring down the existing government we’re looking at several more years of the Tories making a pig’s head of the social fabric.
Meanwhile anarchists trash a posh London café, wonder where they got that idea from?
@Macart
I think some of us looked at Corbyn as a real possibility of change to the left, and some refreshing honest politics. But it was a very mixed view for me, as though it would be better in itself, and generally for Scotland and the UK, there was a real danger he could move people back from the SNP, and SSP, Greens, RISE, to Labour in Scotland, perhaps deny the SNP a majority in Holyrood, and therefore prevent Indy Ref 2.
At the same time perhaps even some of the softer YESsers might be swayed back to “the dark side”, giving the UK another chance, with a prospect of more socially just policies, more left policies to address the imbalance in UK politics over the last 35 years, so the appetite and support for Independence would drop below the 50% it’s at, rather than continuing to rise steadily.
As it is, I think he blew it, him and his deputy both.
I’m not even particularly left in my views by the way, but with Thatcher moving the UK to the right, Blair having to move Labour to the right to get Labour back into power, then getting kicked out and the Conservatives under Cameron moving further to the right than Thatcher, perhaps held back a bit by the LibDems, now riding even further right unfettered by any consideration of socialism, care for people who aren’t rich – it needs a quite strongly left in the UK to redress the balance. Well, Corbyn isn’t going to be it.
P.S. The reason I think Ms Boyack’s theoretical weakness was a sham, is her background in urban and regional planning. I first met her when she was a lecturer at the Heriot Watt School of Planning and Housing.
My concern about HS2’s impact on Scotland’s economy is because it can only promote “stacking” and “intensification” of economic activity in the south of England. A region that already benefits disproportionately from “unidentified” public expenditure. I don’t think this likely to assist Scotland’s future ability to compete in a global market.
Better Together?
Big Jock
“Pin. Garbage analogy, don’t give up your day job.”
PIN…HEAD?
________________________________________________________
Alan Mackintosh @ 11.39
Whoohahahahaha
reply to Ian Murray
If I could just make a few small criticisms Ian
1 DO change your tailor
2 DONT lean on a womans shoulder to imply she’s your burd, (it just makes you look desperate)
3 DEFINITELY lose that (boyish) grin its creepy!
Ashley Madison.
______________________________________________________
Alberta Scot says
“If I was a thinking man on the Scotsman editorial board I’d probably throw Stu a bone and give him a column.”
I think I know what Stu would say to their “throwing him a bone”
link to youtube.com
_____________________________________________________
Can we just think about this for a minute?
I watched a BBC article about Scottish wildcats and every person (bar non) had an English accent,
consider if that report was coming from say Cornwall how remarkable would it have been if every single voice on the report had a Scottish accent?
The Tories have cut taxes in the rest of the UK and are not enforcing the UK tax Laws, leading to increased debt by printing monies. Not enough is raised in taxes in the rest of the UK to pay for essential services. The tax Laws are not being enforced in the City of London, HMRC is not fit for purpose. The Tories have cut the tax for the wealthiest (them) and cut the income of the most vulnerable. They are starving, killing and maiming vulnerable people worldwide.
Westminster are now wasting more £Billions by borrowing from the Chinese to fund (flawed business case) HS2 and Nuclear Station (flawed business case) when there are more cost effective, efficient alternatives. Osbourne’s poor/bad decision.
The Oil sector is still being taxed at 55% even though the Oil price has halved. People are lossing their jobs because of it. If the tax was 30% until the price increased, no one would be losing their jobs, and the balance of payments deficit would be lower.
Colbyn is a lame duck. Why would someone stay in a Political Party they so fervourly disagree with for over thirty years. Colbyn did not support the majority of the policies. It is just ridiculous. Colbyn has reneged on every one of his ‘principles’ to become leader of a Political Party whose policies he does not support. A nonsense.
@yesindyref2
Must admit to apprehension setting in after his showing on Scotland 2015 during his campaign dads. He seemed more bemused by the Scottish question than anything else and leading off with the ‘once in a generation’ lie didn’t help sell the man.
Still, you give someone the benefit of the doubt till none remains. I’d say that after the weekend just past he’s certainly succeeded in removing all doubt.
Stupid, wasteful and needless.
As I said above, had he been the real deal, he had 56 votes to count upon as allies. The leaderships of both parties could have worked together in concert to defeat and thwart the conservatives where it counts. Now? Now it’ll have to be case by case and vote by vote. If interests meet, fair enough, but that’ll be more luck than intent considering their conference stance on Trident and McDonnell’s meek acceptance of continued austerity measures.
That’s twice in one year Labour has slapped away an open hand of friendship. Don’t know about the SNP leadership, but I’d think twice about holding out my hand a third time.
#john king
You might be interested in this article.
I came across it this morning, just before the BBC broadcast their story.
link to andywightman.com
The Scottish Gov have mitigated the ‘bedroom’, funded social care/bus passes the elderly. Funded prescription for the sick. Increased nursery places/funding. Spent £100Million year mitigating welfare cuts. Increased loans/Grants for more students, so they can go to Uni. 100,000 proper apprenticeships have been funded. Pupils are leaving school to take up good apprenticeships and learn life long skills. Cut unnecessary college places ie one day dental course which should not have been funded. Build a new Dental Training Clinic.
Built one of the best Hospital in the world. built the Borders train line, and are building the new Forth Road Bridge, the AWPR. Massive construction projects which will improve the economy. Train services are being improved and shortened between Glasgow and Edinburgh. The Trams are completed. ECC is not charging enough for the trams – cheaper than the bus. Subsided transport.
The V&A is coming to Dundee. Visitor numbers have increased. Unemployment is falling. Despite Westminster taxing the Oil sector at 55% Losing thousands of jobs and increasing the UK balance of payments
Scotland can’t cut Trident or put a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink, saving £Billions, which could be better spent on social services/NHS/Education.Scotland can’t renationalise rail/ferry or Royal Mail because of Westminster policies.
I’m not surprised people feel disappointed with Corbyn.
I am surprised it has happened so quickly. 🙁
I came across it this morning, just before the BBC broadcast their story.
So VW is also involved in flaky land deals in Scotland? The power of car companies knows no limit. A little side line worth watching … carefully.
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Just goes to show how the importance of the Party supercedes the needs of the people.
When Corbyn was elected against all the odds, I thought wrongly as it turned out, that perhaps this was a man with whom the SNP could do business.
The needs of Labour have prevailed,and the lies and deception continues.Honest politics is a long way off for Mr Corbyn whilst his only mission is to maintain a semblance of being in charge of a Party who do not want him at the helm.
The more things change ,the more they stay the same.
Labour has failed in each of its first five Scottish emission tests.
Even Labour cheerleader Simon Pia conceded on TV last night that he didn’t think Corbyn would ever become Prime Minister and if “Red” Ed was too much for middle England to stomach then Corbyn will be a lame duck sacrifice until a new “Britain friendly” leader is chosen after 2020.
Ken: The V&A is coming to Dundee.
And for main posts staff will be brought in from where?
Tick appropriate answer:
1. London.
2. London.
3. London.
John King @ 7 am
Re BBC Scotland contributors….other than politics and sport it seems that a disproportionate amount of comment on Scottish affairs is voiced through non Scots and it’s the referendum elephant in the room that no one likes to speak about.
Whether it’s the Universities or Scottish Police or a whole host of public bodies or pressure groups they are invariable led by non Scots who then influence the appointment of other key decision makers by selecting those with whom they have the greatest affinity thus making it a self perpetuating situation.
Now I agree with much what they say and don’t deny their rights but it is an interesting phenomenon in the context of the referendum and Scottish self confidence when it comes to the top jobs.
Corbyn’s ‘progressive’ policies fall into the same category as the ‘neutrality’ of Sir Nicholas Macpherson’s British Civil Service.
When the ‘territorial integrity of the State is impugned’ both of these Britnats lose their ‘principles’ in the blink of an eye.
Another Union Dividend, strangely enough caught the piece Scottish Wild Cats this morning from Ardnamurchan.From the Guy in charge of the project through to the woman whose cat was being neutered to the vet doing the neutering to the children putting up camera’s and of course the Southern Gentleman from Auntie, all were English. Now I could take it that the place is full of English People or they went out looking for them.
Perhaps now some of the Corbyn mania will fade away.
Rather than work constructively with the SNP, it is back to the same old tricks.
And he is all over the place ..
United Ireland – good,
Scottish self-government..”flags don’t build houses”
What is his position on a united Europe ?
The Labour Party is a total shambles right now, with MPs divided, and debates swept under the carpet. But they will keep up the pretence until after the Scottish elections, with the Tories playing along.
Onwards says:
“The Labour Party …. will keep up the pretence until after the Scottish elections, with the Tories playing along.”
I’m not sure about that. One day they all act as if Scotland didn’t matter and the Union was expendible, then another day and they have gone bananas trying to attack the SNP and save their Union. Seems almost bipolar!
Staying on focus to make headway in Scotland probably won’t last, or will be very sporadic.
My only explanation is that they simply can’t do political multitasking.
Thank heavens we have Nicola et al, while they have … who do they have again 😉 ?
So Mr McDonnell says ,’ come home to Labour ‘ .
Having like a million other people who campaigned to get rid of Trident, for a fairer country, for a more equal country, the bedroom tax, housing , TTIP and change,( basically a Yes vote) over the last three years , why would anyone come back to Labour ?
Where were you Mr Corbyn or McDonnell over the last three years , when these issues were just as relevant or is it only when it’s filtered through Labour , that our media and all the faux left leaning people in our neighbours world deem them as an issue , that we are allowed to change things.
The ” don’t abandon us, what about the poor of Liverpool etc” was thrown regularly at the Yes campaign, to beat us over the head that somehow , we are all woad painted nationalists by pursuing a vote for Yes and you did it again Mr Corbyn on Sunday on the Marr show , reduced our campaign down to it being about flags.
You stayed silent Mr Corbyn , you stayed silent Mr McDonnell and watched while the banks, corporations and institutions of your country , threatened and blackmailed and manipulated a democratic vote, ensuring poverty would continue, despair would continue, an atrocious life expectancy because you think it is only in Westminsters gift to improve things , your party’s gift ?
Is that renationalise the same railways that brought your colleagues up to Scotland en masse to reinforce how only Better Together with the Tories and Liberals at Westminster can change life expectancy?
So yes , come home to Labour , just be careful who answers the door . As Simon Pia showed last night, it might have had a new lick of paint but inside the walls are crumbling and the occupants are trying to sell you solar panels -again .
Ed Millington wrote “I’m not suggesting that the SNP are above such tactics themselves, by the way. I’m sure they pull this kind of stunt all the time – or at least, did when they were the Holyrood opposition.”
…. and, indeed, the 56 did it in Westminster quite recently. They did a complete 180 on voting on English only matters when the opportunity to defeat a government Bill on changes to fox hunting laws was on the cards – when the bill was to introduce laws in England that were similar to those that have existed for many years in Scotland! Heaven forbid that the 56 should be guilty of spin and opportunism! Furthermore, they claimed the moral high ground by soundbiting about nasty, blood thirsty English Tories being the enemy.
In this particular case, Ms Sturgeon sent the MPs to do her dirty work in total contradiction of what she had said SNP MPs would do pre election – and left England with far stricter laws on fox hunting than they are Scotland!
Spin? Posturing? Deceit? Dis-ingenuousness? It is, indeed, all there!
Sensibletrolling:
Indeed, the 56 did it in Westminster quite recently. They did a complete 180 on voting on English only matters when the opportunity to defeat a government Bill on changes to fox hunting laws was on the cards
And he’s back with the same boring crap as last time. It’s as if all he cares about is killing foxes. But we know all the dunce cares about is screwing up Wings topics.
Why do we have to read the rantings of sensible Dave. I don’t read his posts, and I’m sure I’m not alone.
@Sensibledave.
You reckon that the SNP should play fair with an establishment who are cheating and lying all the way ,do you?
You will only reap what you sow Dave.
Strange things going on with broadcast media.
RT’s UK output is clearly NOT part of the establishment’s propaganda war being waged against the people of Scotland and other countries hereabouts. So what happens?
Ofcom come down on them – without anyone complaining about the output!!
Their website: “Ofcom took it upon itself to complain after “routine monitoring” of RT.” So, no-one complains about a programme of theirs (it was about the Ukraine and gave a different take from the MSM and therefore official FO line) but the watchdog still jumps in and censures them.
RT journalist: “Does anyone seriously think that big UK broadcasters adequately report on those opposing mainstream political opinion? That’s why so many BBC journalists were taken aback when UKIP and Jeremy Corbyn appeared on the scene.”
Ofcom is part of the machine that keeps the media message on track and the truth away from the people.
The journalist is calling for action. “What’s needed now is an urgent conference involving journalists, unions and NGOs to fight censorship in Britain”. Rev Stu – I’ll pay your bus fare to go…
This is all at link to rt.com
This includes a video of a very frank 18 minute interview with Alex Salmond where he talks about the disgrace to public service broadcasting that is the BBC and how this blind sided him during the referendum. Essential viewing!
I loved this: “One by one, all of the instigators of the No campaign and their fellow travellers are being reduced to dust across the planet.” Good old Eck.
@Cadogan Enright thanks for shining the light on RT for me.
First draft of Corbyn’s remarks on Scotland in his big speech today …
link to moflomojo.blogspot.com
Grouse beater 9.34
I am sorry you feel that way Grousey. The instance I quoted was as an example of the SNPs ability to act totally out of perceived self interest – whilst throwing their honesty and integrity under the bus i.e. the sort of thing is that is perceived by SNP supporters as so reprehensible when done by any other party.
The SNP is gathering a record. As that history builds up, we can assess any gaps between “what they say” and “what they do”.
Personally, I hate the spin and the posturing done by all the parties. But the SNP is indeed as guilty as other parties and should be called out when undone – just like Mr Millington was doing to Labour in his article. That’s all.
And the Troll thing again? Really?
Bob Mack 9.44
You wrote: “You reckon that the SNP should play fair with an establishment who are cheating and lying all the way ,do you?”
… No Bob. But I do think it should be careful about trying to claim the moral high ground – when it cheats and lies along with the rest of ’em.
If our new social-conscious-rich Labour Party want to play silly beggars, then perhaps the SNP MPs at Woeminster should table amendments to bills praising the actions of the Scottish Govt. and suggest, as a footnote, something which might actually benefit those in society most in need.
Once Labour have voted against/abstained then the mainstream media will be quick to hold their feet to the fire. Fantastic!
Oh, no, wait a minute…
Still Positive – ‘London Calling’ is mind blowing. I 100% agree about devolving the BBC, which has to done if possible, but we’d still have the same biased senior management, journalists and reporters spouting their nonsense. I think the benefits would be minimal, the organisation and people in senior positions are uber-Unionists, basically Labour party apparatchiks so whilst it has to be done as long as these people are in post the organisation will continue to be institutionally biased and we need to be very aware of that when trying to show people the truth.
@Iain I agree. Just ignore him, a shite-talking irrelevance from the land that time forgot. I just scroll down.
Sensbiletrolling: when it cheats and lies along with the rest of ‘em.
Another easy fabrication from the loose-mouthed Sensibletrolling.
Senseibiletrolling: I am sorry you feel that way Grousey
Patronising runt.
Sensibledave. 9.58
‘But I do think it should be careful about trying to claim the moral high ground’
The SNP have never tried to claim they have the moral high ground,it is you who lie Dave.Your union jack jock strap must be ablaze 🙂
It’s just that your BritNat unionist parties are immoral in policy and deed(warmongering,Trident,Imperialism).
O/T links
link to stewarthosie.com
link to politicalscrapbook.net
link to aol.co.uk
link to commentisntfree.com
link to ibtimes.co.uk
link to lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk
[…] In the spirit of straight talking, honest politics, I’m going to put my cards on the table right now: I’m a Corbyn voter. As a classic hand-wringing, middle-class, North London leftie, the mad fact of Jeremy Corbyn’s candidacy compelled me to register as a Labour supporter; empowered me to bet £3 on the foolish notion that Something More might somehow, suddenly, be achievable. […]
dakk 10:48 am
“The SNP have never tried to claim they have the moral high ground,…”
Er, just have a read of some of the comments in the last few threads Dakk
“it is you who lie Dave.Your union jack jock strap must be ablaze :)”
… just for the record, could you point me to my “lies”?
@sensibledave, You will not change your views.
Neither I suspect will I or the other Scots who voted to be free of Westminster.
The SNP are not perfect,but they are the only feasible vehicle on our journey to self determination,whether you approve of them or not.That is reality.
The Tories must be laughing their pigs heads off.
They love classic divide and rule tactic, and in this case they don’t even have to implement it, Labour are doing it all themselves.
If Labour wastes its time attacking the SNP, then that’s energy not being applied against the Tories.
The good news is that the business as usual SNPbaaaad Labour tactics means Corbynmania is not going to sweep Scotland and weaken our independence movement.
Your comparing apples with oranges sensibledave. The SNP publicly announced their reasoning behind the change regarding voting on what was considered an ‘english’ only matter in light of the overwhelming majority of people, whom the SNP represent who felt very strongly that fox hunting was and is a moral issue that actually has ‘no borders’.
It’s a cruel and unnecessary ‘sport’ for the wealthy, and as much as I know you will reply that ‘jobs’ are lost through the ‘banning’ of fox hunts in the ‘countryside’. We all know the truth that the ‘sport’ revenue really comes down to social status, as fox hunting is an upper class pastime, wherein in they ‘blood’ their young with their ‘first kill’ anointing them in the blood of the animal they have pursued and terrified with their dogs…who finally rip the poor creature apart.
To me it’s a ritualistic pastime that inures the young of the establishment class to ‘cruelty’.
What Corbyn and the new Old Labour brigade have done is make sweeping general disparaging accusations about SNP policies that as Ed above has outlined, amount to ‘political point scoring’. And reveal themselves to be bereft of integrity. As they had presented an ‘alternative’ approach in their ‘politics’ throughout their leadership campaign. Instead they have immediately picked up where the old New Labour left off.
If this is the ‘only’ example you can find to support your view that ‘they’re all the same’. Then you really reveal yourself to all, as a mean spirited ‘nit picker’.
**awaits being patronised by sensibledave**
I’m still convinced Corbyn has been replaced by a “body double”. It is inconceivable that anyone could back-flip to this extent in a few weeks.
If I hear “debate issues” one more time I’m going to puke.
Quakeawake said 29th September at 9:45 am :-
“This includes a video of a very frank 18 minute interview with Alex Salmond where he talks about the disgrace to public service broadcasting that is the BBC and how this blind sided him during the referendum. Essential viewing!”
It certainly is,and should be spread as far and wide as possible. 🙂
Here’s the direct link to the film:-
link to tinyurl.com
@Helena Brown
There’s a lot of English have moved up to Scotland, specifically because they like the wildness. Some have sold up expensive houses “down south”, bought a house here, and started a business, often in the wild adventure area.
Ironically many of them in my experience, can’t stand Westminster politics.
@Iain says: “Why do we have to read the rantings of sensible Dave.”
Practice Iain, practice makes perfect. With the YES up to 50%, there are still 1,800,000 voters to move over to YES and while 360,000 of them are probably a lost cause, it’s good to keep the hand in with facts and sensible ripostes.
sensibledave is good enough to stick his head above the parapet (from the South-East of England even) and stand there while we take target practice. He’s a hero.
Now, where’s my blunderbuss?
KI 12.15 and 12.20
… hate to leave you hanging K1.
I get it. Really, I do. The leader of the SNP said, live, on BBC Question Time, before the GE, that SNP MPs wont vote on English only matters and then gave fox hunting as an exact example of the sort of vote they wouldn’t get involved with – and then instructed them to do the exact opposite at the first opportunity – and that wasn’t cheating, lying or dishonest political opportunism.
Forget that the issue was fox hunting, that is irrelevant, the issue is throwing honesty and integrity under the bus to try and score a political point – just like the rest of ’em.
Of course you choose to not want the comparison between the SNP’s actions and those of other parties, it hurts and its very hard to defend – particularly when, in this case, we have arrived at a situation where, as it happens, Scottish laws on fox hunting are more lax than those in England and, still, after umpteen years of being in government, it remains the case when then SNP could have changed the laws at any time.
I really dont want to re run the fox hunting debate. That is not the point. The point is politicians lie – Ms Sturgeon and her colleagues have demonstrated the same morals and ethics as so many other MPs – so please spare me the holier than thou nonsense.
Sorry if you feel such a volte face is “nit picking”!
Oh Dave, Dave, Dave…there’s a difference between the one example you cite (SNP wise) as some how ‘proving all politicians are liars’ and the current avalanche of fundamentally double dealing lying that the Labour party indulge in.
They didn’t ‘throw their integrity under a bus’. I’ve already outlined the democratic nature regarding that decision. Fact is if circumstances alter the SNP are nimble and they have to be, in the face of the opposition across and to their left on those benches.
You cannot compare the two parties. They are simply miles apart in this regard, but…they are political parties and by their nature yes, there is ‘politicking’ as part of that ‘game’.
What the SNP aren’t is the Labour party. They’ve just reneged on their own principles at the core level. Having enticed thousands, perhaps even millions in England to think there was another way forward, a new and ‘honest’ politics, and Corbyn et al are the very boys. That’s not politicking in the nit picking way you are characterising in the one example you cite.
That’s a stunning and quite cynical ploy to draw the ‘lost labour supporters’ back on board then shit on them from a great height within a week of winning on that ‘ticket’?
There’s no comparison. Apples and Oranges. Yer on tae Plumbs.
On the left as seen on telly 🙂
On the right when listened to very carefully.
Sensibledave 11.01
Which SNP MP or MSP made any of the comments you allude to ?
None. That is why you lied.The SNP did not make those comments so you lied about them trying to claim the moral high ground.
Commenters on here do not speak for the SNP anymore than you do for the BritNat unionist parties.
However,the policies and deeds of your unionist Establishment parties speak for themselves.Immoral.
Hi sensibledave.
You typed,
The leader of the SNP said, live, on BBC Question Time, before the GE, that SNP MPs wont vote on English only matters and then gave fox hunting as an exact example of the sort of vote they wouldn’t get involved with – and then instructed them to do the exact opposite at the first opportunity…
She didn’t “instruct’ anyone. At a local meeting of independence activists, my MP told us the background to the foxy matter.
On the Monday evening, the SNP MP’s had a meeting, at which possibly two decisions had to be made.
The first decision was to decide whether the SNP MP’s, as a group, would vote against the government’s proposal. They discussed the issue and decided to vote against it.
Then came the second decision – would they just hud their tongues and trot into the NO lobby on the Wednesday, or would they announce their first decision to the world?
They announced their decision, which resulted in the government deciding not to go ahead with the vote. My MP told us that, subsequently, a handful of the new Tory MP’s thanked him, privately, for announcing the decision, as they knew that their constituents were against it and it saved them a crisis of conscience.
As Brian’s just outlined Dave, the SNP are a democratic party, there’s no integrity being ‘thrown under a bus’ on this matter. Both Tory and Labour hierarchies are career and ideologically driven establishment parties, who’s main function is to maintain the ‘status quo’.
They are not ‘listening’ to the vast electorate that is sick a tired of their spin. They live in a bubble and sign off on policies that have done nothing but maintain the artificial divisions that the establishment on these isles has benefited from for generations. While ordinary people suffer the outrageous effects of their ideologically driven decisions.
Whether you acknowledge it or not, the SNP’s policies have aided those less fortunate as well as those whose fortunes fare better. That’s the point, working within a very restrictive set of ‘powers’ they have sought to find a way were ‘everyone’ benefits, we are not all looking at our neighbours and thinking ‘rich bastards’ are getting more than ‘me’. We don’t all ‘envy’ the others’ lot.
What some of us feel is that there needs to be a fairer distribution of the wealth generated, so that all have a decent chance in life irrespective of ‘background’. And by ‘chance’ I mean, are not in a state of ‘perpetual survival’ simply because they haven’t been born into a wealthy ‘background’.
And furthermore are not ‘punished’ for having a different outlook than the propaganda that has been tubed into people’s living rooms for years, until they end up spouting shit that they ‘heard’ on the telly or read in the papers. And pretend to themselves that they have an ‘informed opinion’ when others can see clearly that they merely ‘parrot’ what they have ‘heard’ from other sources.
There’s no one ‘running’ this planet. No one owns it. No one knows what the hell anything is really about. People don’t ‘realise’ they are born free. That they don’t have to put up with any of this shit. That they can change anything they want. That’s what we are doing here. That’s all.
You can argue all the live long day about what the SNP are and are not and still you won’t make a dent on what sits at the core of this movement for change. It’s not the SNP…it’s ordinary people, raising their voice as one and saying: No More.
Politically speaking, and I know you have been told this repeatedly: the SNP are merely the vehicle. What don’t you get about that? Not all on here are SNP members.
But we as a movement shall remove the Labour party in its current manifestation from Scotland. And we are utilising the SNP for that purpose.
We’re in charge. Not the SNP. We ain’t replacing one set for another.
They know it and we know it. End.
Hi K1.
The thing I forgot to mention in my post was that my MP said that the reason they decided to vote against was because each of them had had “100’s” of emails from their constituents, exhorting them to vote, presumably against.
Indeed Brian, exact point I made further up the thread…Nicola doesn’t ‘instruct’, the party listens to the electorate who have democratically ‘elected’ them.
That’s why we are placing our trust in them, as Representatives of ‘us’.
The ‘situation’ has altered significantly in Scotland, our new MP’s are in Westminster on a mandate from the people. That’s why our old MP’s were kicked into the void, because they represent themselves.
Ergo…fuck ’em.
Great article.
Well you kinda know now what crap is going to be on future SLab pamphlets and Daily Record ‘exclusives’ when approaching voting time.
No i cant agree with the comment we are one nation.We may both be fighting against austerity but we in Scotland are also fighting for the freedom of our country from a Tory dominated alliance.Only then can we hope to give our people freedom from deprivation that exists at this time.
[…] A week ago, I watched John McDonnell’s message to the people of Scotland, and found myself flabbergasted at his hypocrisy. Apparently, the best advert the Shadow Chancellor could find for his new brand straight-talking, honest politics was an egregious litany of mealy-mouthed slurs on the voting record of the SNP. […]