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Wings Over Scotland

More lying nationalists

Posted on August 19, 2014 by

Remember, readers, saying the Scottish NHS is in danger from Westminster attacks on the English one is just a despicable and outrageous Nat scare story.


Alistair Darling and Alistair Carmichael wouldn’t lie to you, after all.

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    1. 19 08 14 21:18

      More lying nationalists | Scottish Independence News

    2. 29 08 14 21:59

      48 Lies | A Wilderness of Peace

    145 to “More lying nationalists”

    1. muttley79 says:

      Oh yes they would and do! 😀 😀

    2. Croompenstein says:

      Why do members of unison still contribute to the Labour Party, this campaign has pulled back the curtain and revealed them in their true blue colours.

    3. Clootie says:

      That is why I fear a NO vote!

      This is the start of the downward trend.

    4. HandandShrimp says:

      The No crowd are all over the place on the NHS. On one hand Labour are hitting hard in England on the impact that privatisation is having on the NHS there and yet Darling and Co are peddling the Tory line up here.

      They are not convincing people because I have heard far more discussion about the plight of the English NHS and what that might mean down the line than I have about currency. The NHS is something that matters to people. Esoteric discussions about pegs and currency boards rather less so.

    5. macart763m says:

      Clearly UNISON is full of them separatists. 😀

    6. JimnArlene says:

      Another squirrel, despatched. Their house of cards is falling like dominoes, checkmate.

    7. MajorBloodnok says:

      It’s about time the real impacts of a no vote were understood by the voters. And the fact of what is happening and what WILL happen to our NHS is the meme that needs to be out there (forget all this Plan A Plan B pish).

      I think it is genius that AS has come out and said that the Scottish NHS will be protected in our new constitution. It draws attention to the NHS issue, it forces the Labour Party to face both ways at once and it also draws attention to the fact that we WILL have a constitiution. All good for the campaign in my opinion.

      How the likes of Darling can sit there and try to pretend that everything is rosy with the NHS in England and that our NHS would be safe in the Union shows what a mendacious turd he is.

    8. Croompenstein says:

      Flipper is like a fly who has landed on a venus fly trap, he will make a complete cnut of himself on the next debate bleating about plan b because people are sick hearing it and he will utterly come apart on the NHS as he can’t square the Labour argument of less privatisation with his Tory masters privatisation agenda. I think he has been given enough rope we now need the FM to deliver the coup de grace

    9. Colin Church says:

      Someone asked on another thread why SLAB have gone a bit quiet. They have lost their turf according to RIC. And now how do they square a credible position on this. Deny rUK LAB claims, deny UNISON claims, ignore “save our NHS” marches just across the border, agree with CON DEM lies. What a mess they are in. HMS Westminster is sinking. It will be an unseemly rush to the lifeboats for these troughers.

    10. goldenayr says:

      Oh dear…London thinks it can survive as a Hong Kong in Europe.

      I’ve just had a “Doh” moment.

      That’s what all the BoJo pish and references to small successful “city states” like HK,Vatican,Luxembourg have been about.

      The Great British dream is dead.

      A speculator bought it for a bit of real estate.

      What’s the betting after the YES vote,Queenie upsticks,saying “Sod this fir a gemme a sodjers”,and sets up permanent in Balmoral.

      Hmmm…if it wasn’t for the fact that there’s already a “Balmoral Rangers”,I could’ve seen Ibrox moving from Glasgow.

    11. Sinky says:

      I make no apologies for reposting this.

      The No Scotland voters who think that the threats to the Scottish NHS are mere scares should explain why Labour is backing MP Clive Efford’s bill in UK Parliament to halt the NHS sell off in Egland.. not mind you to reverse the privatisation.

      On BBC Radio Scotland on 28th June, the leading public finance health expert in the UK, Professor Allyson Pollock, who was one the first to expose the new Edinburgh Royal Infirmary PFI scandal, began by stating the biggest problem was that the NHS in England as we knew it no longer exists, and that the £20 to £30 Billion scheduled cuts in UK government health spending south of the border over the next few years will have dramatic consequences for the NHS in Scotland due to the Barnett formula consequentials.

      It was Labour that introduced the current privitisation health reforms in England, and shadow health secretary Andy Burnham recently told Holyrood Magazine that we need to get back to a UK wide health policy, so don’t get too attached to your free prescriptions (£8 in England), free eye tests (£25 in England), free dental checkups (£20 in England) and free personal care for the elderly (incalculable), because if you vote No, their days are numbered.

    12. Lesley-Anne says:

      Here’s a link Sinky to Allyson Pollock giving her speech at TEDxExeter.

    13. msean says:

      Caught out(again)

    14. Jim Thomson says:

      I think I’ve had (yet another) Damascene moment.

      Slightly off-topic (well, onto currency, actually).

      The whole “Yer no gonnae get yer poond” stuff is what Westminster really wants to stick.

      Look at it this way. If they succeed in blocking us from a currency union, what will happen to the GBP? It will sink significantly and therefore make the rUK exports and products (what’s left of them) look really cheap to overseas buyers.

      The Treasury only cares about the volume of GBP that they can show flowing around and that will increase significantly because their balance of trade will improve dramatically (assuming loads of “foreigners” i.e. us, buy their cheap stuff).

      As you might have guessed, I’ve not quite thought this right through to a conclusion but, as a ploy, it might just work. We’ll have a few extra barrels of oily stuff, and will therefore be able to reduce our fuel costs, which will reduce their electricity bills.

      This won’t affect the mega-wealthy because, well, they’re mega-wealthy, and it will simply mean that poor old rUK Joe Public will have to suffer more deprivation (no cheap foreign holidays or imported goods) and will be forced to buy rUK manufactured goods, hence helping rUK industry …

      Ok, now open to (please make it constructive) criticism and derision 🙂

    15. JimnArlene says:

      The Tariff Advertiser explains why, NHS England is going down the tubes and taking Scotland’s NHS with it.

    16. RosiePosie says:

      Has Unison come out in favour of independence?

    17. Les Wilson says:

      Yet, while this being the case the BBC seem to have a standing order for FOI requests in Scotland.
      They scour for every wee thing they can use to belittle our NHS.

      Firstly to pile on the pressure for anything they find to hold our, not perfect ( I do not think it every could be due to the vastness of it )but appears superior to the English NHS is very many instances.

      However, this is also for the privatisation of our NHS, to make it seem “beneficial”, and make it easier for the Unionist agenda to get hold.
      I am beginning to actually detest the BBC. They should stick to comedies and documentaries.

    18. JimnArlene says:

      Tarff not Tarrif, autocorrect thingy.

    19. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      HGas anybody got a link to the Daily Record piece from Sir Harry Burns, recently retired Chief Medical Officer for Scotland who told Record readers over two pages that they had to vote YES to save the Scottish NHS?

    20. Les Wilson says:

      Sorry a couple of typo’s in last post, but you get the idea.

    21. dmw42 says:

      If you need some additional material, have a look at, a real eye opener.

    22. Lesley-Anne says:

      I posted this link over on the previous thread Jim but in case you missed it here it is again. This is an article in City a.m. news about how the pound has plummeted to a four month low against the US dollar. I wonder if this might be the start of Westminster a) admitting defeat in the referendum and b) an attempt to reduce the costs of rUK goods to help their balance of payments AFTER we vote YES in September. 😉

    23. fred blogger says:

      the existing nhs budgets will be decimated by privatization. the chief concern of a privatized health care business by law is to it’s shareholder.
      therefore admin costs will soar.
      costs already are and scottish nhs already has a £220m pa millstone.
      money is being sucked out of treating the sick to keep bank a/c’s healthy for the few.
      imv it’s best for dr lucy reynolds to explain it.
      also see the excellent alex neil snp health sec, in holyrood today.
      he also mentions the jarrow style march that is happening south of the border in an attempt to save the nhs there!

    24. goldenayr says:


      That’s dynamite.Gotta stop to watch “Mindgames” on 2 from Ken MacD.

      Time to spread the word about Allison.

    25. BobJay says:

      This is the kind of thing we need to be drawing the attention of people to. All the currency plan B nonsense is to divert the debate away from the issues that would really affect people.

    26. Donald Carthlan says:

      Great Work Rev especially on the Wee Blue Book. I don’t know if you have seen this before but the SNP have been complaining about NHS privatisation since 2003, it is NOT despite Unionist claims a new thing. See here –

    27. kestral says:

      if anyone missed it last night

      we have wee blue book on ebay for those wanting small quantities

      also yes car stickers and WOS flyers

    28. Proud Cybernat says:

      In the forthcoming BBC indy debate I hope Salmond will ask Alistair Darling why, in his 2010 election campaign, he claimed that a Tory Westminster Govt will slash schools and hospitals in Scotland and why he now tries to argue the exact opposite. After all, the Tory position hasn’t changed as Ed Milliband sincerely informed us recently:

      “The NHS will be unrecognisable in five years time if the Tories win again”

      So, was Darling lying to his constituents in 2010 or is he lying to everyone in Scotland now? Either way, Darling is a liar and, as such, cannot be trusted with Scotland’s future.

      Stick it to him Alex, the lying git.

    29. john king says:

      Just in from a Nicola Sturgeon appearance at Lochgelly town hall, needless to say it was standing room only and a standing ovation at the end, I wouldn’t have bet on that even 5 years ago,

    30. john king says:

      I didn’t look for you Bob, were you there tonight Mr Peffers?

    31. ScottieDog says:


      Scaremongering? Taste of their own medicine….

    32. Thepnr says:


      That is why I fear a NO vote!

      This is the start of the downward trend.

      The downward trend started in 1979 with Thatcher, since then every government Red or Blue has been following the same ideology.

      That is how best to enrich themselves whilst in power. Let’s get shot of them with this, the one and only opportunity most of us will ever have.

    33. Proud Cybernat says:

      Cameron claims that the NHS budget in Ebgland has been “ring fenced” thus implying there will be no Barnett Formula consequential for Scotland. Is that true? (Okay, I know Barnett is under threat anyway from all the UK parties but is Cameron’s point true?)

    34. twenty14 says:

      @Kestral – Ebay for the WBB is excellent – just bought 6 for now and will forward to 5 undecided, asking them to pass on – great work

    35. fred blogger says:

      Proud Cybernat
      the term ringfenced here is used as a comparative to other public services that have seen there budgets cut.
      the problem is not the size of the actual budget, but how the budget is being used.
      spending has increased for various reasons, within the budget, not least PFI. (PFI costs scot nhs £220m pa)
      it is about how much money is actually being spent on patient care and this amount is shrinking away as other avoidable costs rise.

    36. Derek M says:

      what i would really like to know is who voted to give these scumbags a mandate to do this ,i know nobody did they just lied to the whole UK about it but hey who cares what the plebes think they are all stupid ,we the aristocracy will decide whats best for you ,yea right vote yes Scotland to get rid of these liars once and for all and save our Scotland from greedy politicians with self serving agendas.
      As for England,Wales and NI sorry guys but you are screwed unless you remove these idiots from power.

    37. fred blogger says:

      Proud Cybernat
      however in the future pressure will increase on the scot nhs to privatize should we vote no! and this will be reflected in reduction through the barnett formula.
      see the vid of allyson pollock as it is difficult to explain in a post.

    38. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for going O/T so early on in this thread but I’ve just come across this tweet.

      As we all know Better Thanks/ NO Together/ Project Feart/ whatever have been paying *ahem* supporters to travel up from Dan Suff to *cough* canvass in Scotland, AGAINST Electoral Commission rules. WE all know it is against E.C. rules as no doubt BT does but will anything be done? Excuse me for NOT holding my breath on this one.

      Well guess what folks, it appears Better Thanks/ NO Together/ Project Feart/ whatever appear to have been at it AGAIN! Apparently our beloved U.K. government have been found out paying for an advert for BT.

      So now we have TWO breeches of the Electoral Commission rules, I wonder what penalties the E.C. will pass down to BT. Oh wait a minute what am I talking about it is BT we’re discussing here NOTHING will happen. SILLY ME! 😛

    39. Auld Rock says:

      Has nobody told Darling and Carmichael that NHS workers and supporters are currently marching from Jarrow to London. Of course maybe they just fancy a good stretch of the legs and I don’t think. Do they really think we came up the Clyde on a banana skin?

      Auld Rock

    40. Brotyboy says:

      GBP fall is as a result of these red figures.

    41. @john king

      You beat me to it!!! Helping out at Lochgelly tonight and managed to stuff a Wings leaflet into nearly every booklet handed out ….. can I claim an industrial injury for a paper cut?

      Loads of people asking about when the WBB will be out – so directed them to their local YES groups to get supplied.

      Even managed to ask Nicola a question – that was me asking about Uni Education @john king – the Mum with her son way at the back.

      That and the NHS seemed to be the issues that grabbed the audience – but OMG!!! Standing room only so over 400 at a political meeting in Lochgelly. We are indeed living in interesting times.

    42. Hood says:

      Proud Cybernat,
      This is my take on things.

      I think it is acknowledged that at this time the spending on the NHS in England has been ring fenced which in real terms means it has either stayed the same or possibly even decreased slightly.

      However it is not just spending on NHS in England that will be the problem. The total spending on all things in England is being cut and thus the block grant to Scotland will be cut. So even if the NHS in England stayed the same the cuts in other area would affect how much Scotland gets.

      If I recall I think it is something like 2bn being cut next year to the amount we get, the Scottish Government has so far managed to divert funds away from other areas to protect the Scottish NHS but as the block grant keeps diminishing then soon they will have no choice but to cut the amount they allocate to the NHS.

    43. Phil Robertson says:

      Interesting that the Yes campaign continues to run with this scare story.

      For information, in the last year, the result of the rampant privatisation on Scotland’s Barnett payment was an EXTRA £300 million .

      On the subject of rampant privatisation being forced on us by Westminster, the percentage of Scotland’s health budget going to the private sector has risen by more 37 per cent under the SNP’s stewardship.

      But then why let the truth get In the way of a good scare story!

    44. goldenayr says:

      Thank you Ken MacD.

      Your acceptance of shelving “Headlines” is forgiven.

    45. Robert Peffers says:

      @john king says: 19 August, 2014 at 9:30 pm:

      “Just in from a Nicola Sturgeon appearance at Lochgelly town hall, needless to say it was standing room only and a standing ovation at the end, I wouldn’t have bet on that even 5 years ago,

      That’s the kind of feedback I’m getting from the local Kelty group. I walked the wee dog this evening and a cottage just round the corner has a dormer bay window with a large YES Saltire covering the full front pane. I’m working on my flag staff and my yes saltire should be flying within the next day or so.

    46. goldenayr says:

      Phil Robertson

      Stu’s probably in bed,so it’s safe to tell you.

      You need a higher IQ to post on here.

    47. Thepnr says:

      Sorry O/T Re the Wee Blue Book.

      I know every Yes supporter wants one but do they really need them? Giving them out in Yes shops to Yes supporters who wander in may not be the best way to distribute them.

      Take the RIC mass canvas, roughly 30% don’t knows, if they have noted the address of these don’t knows shouldn’t they get 6,000 or so just for these people?

      Their is a lot of info out there about where to target the WBB, we just need to get our hands on it. This is not the time for secrecy “this information is mine, your no getting it”.

      All the Yes groups need to work together for just 4 more weeks, we all need to distribute it first to those who can swing the vote in our direction.

      If anyone has any ideas, stick them up over in Off Topic.

    48. Phil Robertson says:


      I’m quite happy with my IQ. It lets me note that you didn’t challenge the accuracy of the two figures that I quoted.

    49. Marcia says:

      I read somewhere that paid trolls now use Scottish surnames.

    50. goldenayr says:


      I’m hitting the spam valleys with mine.

      If I get 1 “I’m alright Jack” to rethink,then I’ve won.

    51. Jim Duthie says:

      Robert Peffers, John King et al

      We are so going to win this!!!

    52. Robert Peffers says:

      @john king says: 19 August, 2014 at 9:31 pm:

      “I didn’t look for you Bob, were you there tonight Mr Peffers?”

      Couldn’t make it. I’m running a few days behind schedule. My adapted Camper Van’s power steering packed in and I got stuck at home for a few days.

      All’s well again now and I’ve offered the van to the local group as either a mobile stall/office or for a tannoy vehicle as it is fitted with extra battery power and 240Volt enverter.

    53. goldenayr says:

      Phil Robertson

      Personally,I’d be quite disappointed if my IQ didn’t question those figures and how they were arrived at.


    54. handclapping says:

      All the consequences of voting No are scare stories, real scary stories and there won’t be a thing that we can do about any of them. At least with Yes we will be able to use all our resources to tackle problems in the order we decide is best or most urgent.

      I was also at Lochgelly and saw Nicola with two other English friends who couldn’t understand what we were on about in Scotland wanting a referendum. Well now they do.
      Impressed to see so many Yessers in Lochgelly. I hope that gives Dr Brown nightmares about what will happen to him in 2015 or 2016

    55. Thepnr says:

      @Phil Robertson

      I’d appreciate a link to your evidence of an increase of £300m in the block grant “in the last year”.

      Here’s a link to what Scotland has received in terms of the block grant from 1999 to 2012. No “last year” unfortunately.

    56. Ken500 says:

      John Menzies declares for NO because of a fall in profits in the airport handling division at Heathrow. Heathrow terminal reorganisation and disruption has led to a fall in profits.

      The NO declaration is a red herring to cover for falling profits at Heathrow. Market manipulation. Corporate dishonesty.

    57. Hood says:

      this is part of the Q and A last night that I mentioned in a previous post regarding the significance of spring 2016 being the chosen Independence date.

    58. fred blogger says:

      Phil Robertson
      “On the subject of rampant privatization being forced on us by Westminster, the percentage of Scotland’s health budget going to the private sector has risen by more 37 per cent under the SNP’s stewardship.”
      that money was spent on private sector health care, that is perfectly normal, and has NOTHING to do with privatization. in other words did private health care companies bid and get scot nhs work? and 37% rise of what amount, do tell us/me what that original amount was?

    59. Grouse Beater says:

      Robertson postures: Interesting that the Yes campaign continues to run with this scare story.

      I have no idea what IQ you have but I do know you are ill-informed and happy to exhibit it publically.

      The USA passed a law probiting any state from stopping the progress of privatisation if it already has elements of privatisation in its health system. This was brought about by hard lobbying from big business involved in health care, wealthy pharmaceutical companies, and medical equipment manufacturers.

      The EU is debating a similar Bill.

      Simply put, once Scotland allowed privatisation into its NHS system it would be legally barred from stopping further inroads to free care.

      All Westminster needs to do is reduce its Barnett formula so forcing the Scottish Parliament to make cuts and allow in private companies.

      Scare story? You bet. You better be scared.

    60. Marcia says:

      What a lot of No people don’t realise is that the Yes campaign is promoting ‘British Values’. BV? Yes. We are ones promoting what the post war Labour Government of 1945 promoted, Free Education, a true National Health Service in public hands and not in private hands the way the English HS is going, free prescriptions and the public service remaining public. A lot of the older folk should be reminded of what he had and what we will miss if there is a No vote.

    61. goldenayr says:

      Phil Robertson

      Told you.

      You need a higher IQ to post on here.

      Feel free to discuss,not to rant…Apart from me.

    62. goldenayr says:

      Seems like Wee Sadie Smith is trying to recalibrate Ken MacD’s prog.

      Too late Sadie.

      We all,including no voters,think you’re a turd.

    63. Murray McCallum says:

      I’m pretty sure it was the NHS that treated Alistair Darling’s badly injured fingers when he got them “caught in the till”.

      What a short memory he has.

    64. sausage fingered luddite says:

      I really need to stop watching john McKay on Scotland Tonight. He’s so poor I’m going to smash the tv.

    65. kendomacaroonbar says:

      I think our Phil doth protest too much.

    66. Tam Jardine says:


      Not much chance of the Electoral Comission coming down hard on BT. If you have seen their recent brochure you will know where they stand. Quite happy to print BT lies in their official mailshot to encourage folk to register to vote etc.

      When they print that we will lose the UK pound and put pensions at risk they are endorsing BT lies. If BT had suggested the Yes campaign want to kill the first born child of every no-voter then would that have been reproduced? We presume not. So they have checked it out (they’ve had long enough to do so) and they reckon that they are acceptable arguments.

      Consigning this to print is unforgiveable for a supposedly impartial body. And the logo is bigger, and they get the right hand page. It gets the message out and the EC lend better together legitimacy and sponsor circulation of their scare stories.

      There is no way Yes Scotland should have agreed to share a platform with Blair MacDougall’s propaganda. What body keeps tabs on EC impartiality? Westminster!

    67. Robert Peffers says:

      @Phil Robertson says: 19 August, 2014 at 10:28 pm:

      “For information, in the last year, the result of the rampant privatisation on Scotland’s Barnett payment was an EXTRA £300 million.”

      You are another idiot who imagines we zip up the back of our heads. In the first place there is only one way for the Barnett Consequentials to increase the Scottish Block Grant. That is by positive Barnett Consequentials. The only way Barnett Consequentials become positive is due to English spending increasing but the real truth is that much of the bigger English/London increased funding is derived from sources that carry no Barnett consequentials.

      This list of such non-Barnett spending in England is very extensive and it comes from sources that Scots contribute to. Defence spend is less in Scotland than Scots contribute. Cross-Rail is from Government reserves as is the still increasing New London Super Sewerage System funding and the pre-HS rail link spend.

      Now prove me wrong.

    68. goldenayr says:

      sausage fingered luddite

      The remote is for changing the channels from your chair.

      Not throwing at the buttons on the telly.

      I can understand how emotion can make you miss however.

    69. Ken500 says:

      Block Grant has been reduced £1.3Billion a year since 2011 Budget. – Osbourne/Beaker

      ConDems allocated increase investment in the UK. Scotland got £300million – ie shovel ready projects. Still overall cuts. £30Million a year lost to pensioners. Welfare/benefits cuts. Absolute cut to Education/NHS budget. The ConDems were elected to protect. £30million deficit in NHS by 2020 = approx £3Billion cut to allocation of funding NHS in Scotland. Sale of Royal Mail lost Scottish assets.

      Increase of tax on Oil sector 10% (£2Billion) in 2011. Scotland has lost £4Billion a year in Oil tax revenue.

      Scotland has lost an average of £7Billion a year since 2011 Budget. Westminster supports tax evasion through City of London, Trident/redundant weapon spending and cuts in tax for the wealthiest, while sanctioning benefits cuts and food banks.

      The wealthiest wealth has increased 15% a year. Five people in the UK (London?) own more than 20% (1/5) of the population.

    70. alexicon says:

      Sorry for OT.

      My God, why doesn’t the bbc just rename Scotland 2014, unionist Scotland 2014.
      It’s just been all pro unionist on their programmer tonight getting free rein to spout off.

    71. sausage fingered luddite says:

      I hit the down button and got bbc twa… Now going online shopping for new gogglebox

    72. Ken MacColl says:

      Ah the good old BBC and their impeccable neutrality! The Sarah Smith saga at present has the compere discussing the current Scottish political scene with two journalists -the health correspondent of The Hootsman and a Scottish representative of The Guardian.
      No attempt at balance here.Where is Eleanor Bradfield when you need her to put the boot in ?
      How much longer can this banal offering survive?

    73. Sinky says:

      From Craig Murray

      New Labour are just as bad as the Tories. Alistair Darling received 12,000 pounds for one after dinner speech to Cinven Ltd, a firm which does nothing but benefit from privatisation of NHS services. Was it because Alistair Darling is just the entertainment people want after a good dinner? No, they were buying his vote. New Labour and Tory MPs are both up to their eyeballs in NHS privatisation money.

    74. Proud Cybernat says:


      I understand what you are saying about other spending in England being reduced thereby there will be a knock-on effect to the Scottish block grant vis-a-vis Barnett consequential. But it seems to me that Salmond is attacking the fact that the NHS is being privatised and that, as such, that will lead to a Barnett consequential because he seems to be implying that the English NHS budget will reduce. But if Cameron is saying the English NHS budget is ring-fenced then Salmond’s attack could be rebuffed on that ‘technical point’ (even though we know it will be slashed as a result of Barnett being scrapped altogether). I don’t think Salmond, therefore, should attack on those grounds i.e. that the English NHS budget will be slashed when it is (technically at least) safe-guarded. I think Salmond should say our NHS is under threat from Barnett being scrapped altogether as this is what all Westminster parties are aiming to do. I think that would be more potent than attacking the English NHS finding when Darling can simply respond by telling Salmond the NHS budget in England is ring-fenced (even is services are provided by private healthcare companies). It would be an easy get out for Darling.

    75. Lesley-Anne says:

      Apologies for O/T again but it appears that Citizen Smart seems to have found ronnie’s claw hama here.

    76. goldenayr says:

      sausage fingered luddite

      Sod a TV.

      Bought a Kaleidoscope.

      Mak’s mair nonce than thon divots oan the box.

    77. fairmersloon says:

      Interesting one on Scotland Tonight.

      The present currency union with UK is optimal, but a currency union with rUK will be a disaster according to Jack Perry and Ronald MacDonald.

      He also said all other options are bad, yes bad.

      Time we had an economist on this obvious blarney.

    78. bald eagle says:

      anybody want to try and explain to me how to screen grab

    79. Lesley-Anne says:

      I may be way off on a weird and wonderful tangent here but I think the way all this privatising of the English N.H.S. works out is something like this.

      Westminster have X amount to spend on the E.N.H.S. and from this amount the S.G. gets approximately 10% to run the S.N.H.S. Now, because WM is privatising the E.N.H.S. then they pay Y amount to the private company running each health trust, or whatever they call themselves these days. However, because these NHS Trusts are now run by PRIVATE companies then the money being paid to them is removed from the ENHS thereby REDUCING the amount of money left to pay for the NON privatised ENHS. It is this REDUCED amount that is now used via Barnett to produce the amount of Barnett consequentials for the Scottish NHS.

      At least that is MY understanding of why privatisation is having such an effect on our NHS.

      Had Westminster left their payments to the private companies running the privatised NHS Trusts in the amount that was worked on by the Barnett Formula then THEY not US would be holding the high ground in the battle over the NHS in my view.

    80. goldenayr says:

      bald eagle

      What’s a “screen grab”?

    81. Papadox says:

      Unfortunately watched a total clown, ranting MSP Neil Finlay on the tv getting pulled up by the presiding officer. DA

      Saw the same clown trying to talk down to Stewart maxwell, DA

      Listened to some previous pompous chairman of Sottish enterprise being spoon fed by McKay on stv.

      Being thoroughly pissed off by this bunch of smart arses, came to wings.

      There was another numpty phil Robertson, another embarrassment . DA I am now away tae ma bed had enough knuckle draggers for one night.

    82. bald eagle says:


      its something you want to grab like a statement you see and want to grab it incase it vanishes i think

    83. Thepnr says:

      @Proud Cybernat & Hood

      I agree with both your statements. There is no doubt that further spending cuts are coming therefore the Scottish block grant will be reduced.

      That is a given.

      In that case then it is likely that cuts may have to made in the NHS budget unless they fall elsewhere such as student fees. So something has to give.

      However the main issue I believe is even the knowledge that the rUK is heading down the path of privatising the NHS, for most Scots that is the main issue. The effect of privatisation can only mean people paying a contribution outwith that already contributed through their national insurance and other taxes.

      In other words direct payments for a visit to your GP, we all know where this is headed. As the general public pay more through their own pocket or insurance the governments contribution goes down.

      This is only heading in one direction an American system of healthcare. A disaster for the poorest and for most I believe. A gigantic reason to vote Yes is to halt this progress.

    84. Grouse Beater says:

      Ken McColl:
      Ah the good old BBC and their impeccable neutrality! Sarah Smith her discussing the current Scottish political scene with two journalists -the health correspondent of The Hootsman and a Scottish representative of The Guardian.

      No different from Sky that invites two airhead pundits to pour scorn on any news item on the ‘Front Page Today’ section, and to belittle Salmond and the Scots.

      They often chortle with joy at how easy it is to talk of Scotland as a silly little place.

    85. Hood says:

      Proud Cybernat,
      It is ring fenced at the moment, supposedly, but for how long, my guess would be as soon as the 2015 elections are won. It wont matter who wins either.

      Labour in England don’t seem to think the NHS in England is safe from privatisation and argued about claims spending had increased, someone posted a link earlier which backed that up, here is is.

      Of course Labour are only wanting a hold on privatising at the moment, they are not calling for a halt to it, wonder why that is?

      The threat to the NHS in Scotland was discussed last night in Arbroath but I do not recall the exact wording but if you care to look through the 2hrs you will find it, here is the link.

    86. laukat says:

      Interesting front page from the herald

      Although it would appear the daily record has followed the instructions from No campaign HQ (I’ll not waste your time linking to it!)

    87. fred blogger says:

      there is a newer one somewhere, this is dr phillipa whitford

    88. goldenayr says:

      bald eagle

      Right,you can create your own web page.Yet you can’t do copy and paste?


      Do they not sell Kaleidoscopes in Cumbernauld?

    89. Hood says:

      Bald Eagle,
      you can do it several ways by using the print screen button and then opening a word doc or similar and right clicking and paste.

      However the easiest way is to do a google for a wee programme called ScreenHunter, there is a free version and it will put the captured area into the format you want (Jpg, Bmp etc) to the location you have chosen on your hard drive.

    90. bald eagle says:

      of to bed folk enjoy this read the words as you sing along

    91. Robert Peffers says:

      @Phil Robertson says: 19 August, 2014 at 10:35 pm:

      “I’m quite happy with my IQ. It lets me note that you didn’t challenge the accuracy of the two figures that I quoted.”

      Well they do say that ignorance is bliss. So no doubt you are happy with your IQ. However, the figure you quoted is the usual deflection and has nothing whatsoever to do with the specific NHS funding. As pointed out if Barnett’s Consequentials increase the Scottish Block Grant it is due to an increase in particular English funded matters and thus Scotland requires those particular functions to also increase those matters just to maintain parity.

      The actual figures that matter are the overall increased spend on all English funding and thus the commensurate overall increase in the Scottish Block Grant. As much English funding in the past year has come from non-Barnet bearing sources that is a proportionate cut in the Scottish grant in real terms.

      In any case we Scots are voting for independence so that we DO NOT require a foreign country to control our funding nor to collect our tax contributions. In the near future we Scots will decide what our government spends. The truth is that the bipartite United Kingdom parliament has been changed from a two Kingdom format into a four country format by Westminster which retained for itself the Parliament of England. Westminster has become the de facto parliament of the country of England which is thus devolving the English powers to three subservient devolved parliaments. Thus Westminster is no longer our equally sovereign partner but is treating as as inferior servants.

      Now I’ve had enough of trolls for one night. Get lost.

    92. bald eagle says:

      thanks hood

      do that in the morning

    93. Watched both 2014 and Scotland Tonight on currency issue. They’re parking the bus on this one. The underlying message from the no-side financial ‘experts’ seems to be: “We’re the Unionists, we own the big hoos (BoE), so your attempt at democracy is fucked. We are the peepul. No surrender.”

      Perhaps they’re being coached by the lovely Yvonne?

    94. goldenayr says:


      Interesting indeed!

      Anyone got a link yet?

    95. Thepnr says:

      @bald eagle

      easiest method to capture a whole webpage in it’s original format and then provide a link it use

      If you drag the link to your toolbar (found at the top of the page) when you click it then automatically a link will be saved.

      Not sure if that was what you were looking for but if not probably “cut and paste” will do the job. 🙂

    96. goldenayr says:

      Anyone noticed how “Referendum Tonight”,on Radio Scotland, has taken on the middle ground in the debate?

      Bit like “Rathaid An Referendum” on Alba.

    97. Gordon E says:

      Out canvassing tonight and the currency question didn’t even get a mention.
      The usual subjects of pensions and the NHS were mostly on peoples minds.
      Regarding the currency, I have had a few discussions with Unionists about this and bet every one of them £100 that there would be a currency union but to save face it would just be called something else.
      Not one has taken me up on the bet.

    98. goldenayr says:


      Show Aff


    99. Robert Peffers says:

      @bald eagle says: 19 August, 2014 at 11:19 pm:

      “anybody want to try and explain to me how to screen grab?”

      You should have a key on your keyboard marked something like, “Print Screen”, (usually top right), but I’ve never used this method as I have a rather more sophisticated, (and evpensive), set-up in an Entertainment Centre computer.

    100. Thepnr says:


      haha 🙂

    101. Footsoldier says:

      John Mackay on STV is a presenter. Interviewer he is not and very much a lightweight. Are there no decent interviewers in the Scottish media who could conduct a forensic interview without a unionist slant, ie be impartial?

    102. goldenayr says:


      Was going to come down to Dundee for your Day of Action on Saturday.

      Y’re ontae plums noo.


    103. PeeGee says:

      Lovely lovely lovely english people. Stay with us we love you! but if you leave we’ll kill you!

      Great positive message from our beloveds in this greatest ever union of families. Of course it’s all alicsammons fault. He made them do it. Before this vote the same NF supporting flowers were all friends of hothersall and desperate to get into out Scottish panties.

    104. fred blogger says:

      this is a more detailed insight re nhs from dr phillipa whitford.

    105. PeeGee says:

      Shame it wasn’t,”Darling accused” in the grainyard, but we can’t have everything.

    106. Rock says:

      bald eagle,

      “anybody want to try and explain to me how to screen grab”


      What’s a “screen grab”?

      A ‘screen grab’ is a picture of whatever is visible on your computer screen at that moment.

      To get a ‘screen grab’, press the ALT and PRTSC* buttons at the same time. That ‘grabs’ the picture.

      Then open a ‘photo editing’ or ‘word’ program and paste the ‘screen grab’ by pressing CTRL V at the same time. Then save that document.

      * Usually a small button at the top right of the key board, might be labelled slightly differently on different keyboards.

    107. goldenayr says:


      You would think a cash strapped broadcaster would be giving up and coming journos a voice and platform to sell their wares.

      Unfortunately,they would rather take money from Labour than make a profit.

    108. Edulis says:

      # Ken McColl.

      What do you mean, ‘Where is Eleanor Bradford when you need her?’

      She was on and spouting rubbish as usual. She really has it in for the SG. What doesn’t she understand about comparitive reductions in health spending though NHS privatisations in England affecting budgets in Scotland, Barnett or no?

      The fact is we get pocket money from Westminster and there are £25 billion cuts to come to achieve a reduction in the public sector budget so inevitably and irrespective of NHS Scotland being separate from NHS England, health spending in Scotland will take a hit. Silly lassie.

    109. Lesley-Anne says:

      Look out folks he’s back!

      Oh yes he is!

      Oor wee Gordo the Magnificent has been popping his head above the parapet again I’m afraid. He was speaking at the Edinburgh Book Festival and guess what folks:

      Gordon Brown has repeated false scares relating to cross-border cooperation on organs transplants and blood transfusions, saying they could end if Scots vote Yes.

      Appearing at the Edinburgh Book Festival, Mr Brown told an audience that Scottish independence could threaten existing agreements on health between Scotland on England.

      You can read the full article over on Newsnet.

      I am very quickly reaching the point where I just want to scream all sorts straight at b******s like this. This guy gives me the Heebee Jeebees even more so every time he opens his damned mouth! Someone, for the sake of our collective sanity superglue his mouth shut!

    110. Flower of Scotland says:

      Seems now SKY looking at newspapers at this time of night makes fun of us Scots and the Referendum. Some guy says it’s looking less likely that we will get Independence, but that the ENGLISH won’t be happy with status quo because Scotland gets far too much money from England and there are poorer parts of England more deserving!!

      Please vote YES!

    111. goldenayr says:


      Can you get done for a DR10 in a wheelchair?

      If not,get the other half and go to the local and rant it oot.

      Battle fatigue is not confined to those who use weapons.

    112. Rock says:


      “Lovely lovely lovely english people. Stay with us we love you! but if you leave we’ll kill you!”

      Nothing to do with the English people, most of whom are indeed lovely people. They will remain our friends, neighbours and relatives.

      It is the British establishment, which includes ‘Proud Scots But’ like Brown, Darling, Murphy etc, who will want to kill us if we dare become independent.

    113. Cindie says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill 9:04pm, couldn’t find the link to Sir Harry Burns in the Record, but this is the Scotsman if that helps?

      Kestral, you are a star! Thanks for the WBB link on E-bay will share widely and order some

    114. G. Campbell says:

      Blast from the past.


      Scottish Labour’s Shadow Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing Jackie Baillie MSP said:

      “I am glad Nicola Sturgeon has finally joined Labour in condemning the Tories reckless plans to break up and privatise the NHS in England.

      Scottish Labour’s Shadow Scotland Minister Willie Bain MP added:

      “Every right-thinking person in Scotland is opposed to the Tories ripping up the National Health Service – not least because what happens in one part of the NHS will affect other parts too.–snp-mps-did

    115. Patrician says:

      The changes to the Scottish NHS are one of the key issues that will push people to Yes. After the last debate I didn’t hear anyone ask about currency they just weren’t that interested.

      Darling is trading on his reputation as a Chancellor of the Exchequer and he obviously thinks he did a good job there. So, like the handyman who only has a hammer and solves every problem as if it was a nail, so Darling tries to solve each problem with a financial answer.

      Currency is an abstract concept and it is hard to understand how a CU would affect you in future. However, with changes to the NHS and having to pay for healthcare it is easy to understand the effect on you and your family.

    116. fred blogger says:

      G. Campbell
      one problem with that is labour is an active participant in the privatization plan.

    117. goldenayr says:

      And while her constituents die at an early age.It’s nice to see “Stairheid” has her priorities right.

      “Stuff the inequality,whaurs ma Eastenders”.

    118. Lesley-Anne says:

      I don’t know about getting a DR10 in a wheelchair goldenayr but give me some time and I might think about going out to find out. 😛

      I tried to read the link you put up GC but got no further than this:

      Scottish Labour has described Nicola Sturgeon’s comments on the Tory-led government’s plans to break up and privatise the NHS in England as “embarrassing hypocrisy”, after the Party revealed that not one of the SNP’s six MPs voted against the Tory Bill in the Commons

      Remember now this is from Jackie Baillie’s own website and yet she still doesn’t get it!

      SNP revealed that their six M.P.’s did NOT vote against the Tory bill. WOW! Shock Horror! SNP do NOT vote on a House of Commons Bill that covers England and Wales ONLY. This bill does NOT cover Scotland so they did not vote ya numpty Baillie! What part of “the SNP only vote on bills that concern the people of Scotland. They do NOT vote on bills that do NOT cover Scotland!”

    119. caz-m says:

      Radical Independence mass canvass result when undecided removed,

      63% YES
      37% NO

      Scottish Skier predicted this result a long time ago and I agreed with him. Let’s hope it comes true.

      I don’t think it will be far away from that result.

      One thing is for certain, it will be a certain YES victory on 18th September.

    120. fred blogger says:

      and she also admits that what we are saying re nhs privatization is not a scare story.

    121. goldenayr says:


      See when you come to visit…mind me NOT to show you the gun cabinet.

    122. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’m surprised she knows what to say about anything Fred. Never forget she is the Labour M.S.P. who admitted in an interview with the Herald that she had LIED in the debating chamber at Holyrood over patients lying in hospital corridors on beds.

      She would NEVER understand the meaning of the words TRUSTWORTHY or BELIEVABLE!

    123. Lesley-Anne says:


      You got GUNS? 😛 😛 😛

      Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! 😉

    124. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Phil Robertson

      Re health spending being ring-fenced

      The Tories 2010 manifesto stated ‘We will increase health spending in real terms every year.’ The Tories claim to have done this. They haven’t. The UK Statistics Authority took Cameron to task for making such a claim for the years 2010-12. In fact, Milliband clashed with Cameron on the issue at PMQs (see BBC News online, 5/12/12). John Healey also has an article about it on He states that the NHS has suffered a real terms cut of “£1 billion” (that’s the headline figure in the article, the figure is actually stated to be £1.8 billion within the text).

      So in short, it’s another example of Labour saying one thing to the public in England, and another thing to the gormless Scots.

    125. goldenayr says:


      The wife says “Peashooter”,I say it’s still deadly to peas.

    126. dennis mclaughlin says:

      GOLDENAYR, no Royalist here but one of the few people in this whole debacle who remains outside the argument is H.M.the Queen.
      She retains our nation’s respect for her continuous loyalty to her people throughout her reign.
      Whatever the result on the 19th September , this will not change.
      She is welcome in my book to Balmoral, but the rest can take their chances elsewhere.

    127. call me dave says:

      GMS Mags Curran seemed surprised when questioned about replacing the BBC with a Scottish service. Well done the lady interviewer who reminded her that there have been numerous jobs lost in Scotland.

      She was not given an easy run but still maintains that we could not afford it and may not get our favourite programmes.


    128. Fergus Green says:

      Courier holding an “impartial” debate in Perth:

      Scottish Finance Secretary John Swinney, the UK’s Scotland Secretary Alistair Carmichael and renowned impartial expert John Curtice will join us for a special debate at Perth Concert Hall on September 2.

      Tickets available:

    129. Robert Peffers says:

      Footsoldier says: 19 August, 2014 at 11:57 pm:

      “John Mackay on STV is a presenter. Interviewer he is not and very much a lightweight. Are there no decent interviewers in the Scottish media who could conduct a forensic interview without a unionist slant, ie be impartial?”

      Of course we have great broadcasters in Scottish media. The Scottish media just doesn’t use them or at least not use them properly.

      Derek Bateman, Izzy Fraser for example. Two really fine broadcasters one became so sickened by his former employer that he resigned and Ms Fraser is tucked away in a converted broom cupboard in the basement of the BBC and only let out on rare occasions. Come the independence and such as these will be the backbone of a real Scottish broadcast industry.

      There are also several really good columnists badly neglected by their present employers these too will emerge into the light after we rid ourselves of the dross that is the MSM today.

      There can be no real future for the dross that now sell their country short today. I can see some ending up only doing obituaries; hatched, matched and dispatched; or flower shows and gymkhanas post independence and the rest will just fade away disgracefully.

    130. @call me dave 8.31am

      I suppose in all great revolutions there comes that decisive moment when someone from the rank and file dares to utter:

      “But what about the soaps?”

    131. Mike says:

      I am just amazed that the media have taken up and are highlighting the NHS argument at all. I am positive the No camp do not want to get the NHS agenda onto the Battleground.
      Is this a sign that the media in Scotland at least is starting to see the writing on the wall? The Scotsman in particular has taken a very strange turn with some very reasonable articles in place of the usual No camp dirge it spews out. Mind you that could be as a result of Eddie Barnes moving over to become the new Tory party spin Doctor.

    132. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lesley-Anne says: 20 August, 2014 at 12:04 am:

      “Oor wee Gordo the Magnificent has been popping his head above the parapet again I’m afraid. He was speaking at the Edinburgh Book Festival and guess what folks:”

      As Etonian charmer, David Cameron, said to Angela Eagle, “Calm Down, Dear”.

      Look at it this way Lesley-Anne, Brown was showing sheer panic and desperation with such obvious lies. As is Stairheid Mags with her tirade this morning about losing the BBC services. Most people already know Brown’s claims are lies and the vast majority of Scottish listeners/viewers will be absolutely delighted to lose the BBC forever but would probably settle for an actual SCOTTISH run BBC Scotland.

      When they, Bitter Together, are reduced to returning to these already exposed lies they are now attempting to only hold onto the most stupid, thick or mentally confused numpties who are totally disconnected from modern times. If you base your country’s future upon a fear that you may be deprived of watching, “East Enders”, or are daft enough to imagine a European wide shared blood/organ service that is working well at present will exclude an independent Scotland then you are indeed stupid, thick or confused.

      The NOs are scraping the ground after having scraped their way right through the barrel bottom and fear and desperation is now gripping them by their wobbly and/or dangly bits.

    133. David Anderson says:

      @Dennis McLaughlin

      Re the royals, I agree and believe that the Queen should be allowed and welcome to reign over Scotland in her ceremonial role up until the day she decides to call it a day or dies and after that the rest can take their chances in merry old England, if the peeps down south wish to keep that bunch of scroungers then good luck to them. I am of the opinion that there is no place in modern society for a ‘royal’ family, they serve absolutely no useful purpose and are a drain on much needed public finances. Time to grow up as a country and get rid when the chance presents.

    134. tartanfever says:


      I would go further, it’s what the royals represent that’s also damaging. Regardless of what they actually say, they represent a system of hierarchy, of elitism and of class differences.

      They reinforce those stereotypes by simply being who they are, they are a symbol to the ruling elites of London, whether they be politicians or financiers that the old world order as they know is still alive and well. They are the key symbol of empire and they give an anchor point for the elites to rally round.

      There is no place for them in a modern 21st century.

      PS. Duncan Hothersall a guest on Referendum TV today, should be interesting !

    135. David Anderson says:

      Hi tartanfever, I agree completely, I just think that as it stands they best way to end this enduring hangover from a bygone age would be after the Queen is gone. The royals ARE a part of that system as you rightly point out and dismantling that part would be a great step in the right direction. Would fair put the wind up the rest of them too as their positions were placed on an affy shoogly peg :-).. Here’s hoping.

    136. Liquid Lenny says:

      David Anderson and Tartan Fever

      There is another option which I favour, we elect our
      King or Queen for a term of say 5 years.

      Rmember that what it says on the Declaration of Arbroath, if the King does not do what the people want then we kick him out and get another.

      Kills a couple of birds with one stone, keeps the Tourists happy and does away with patronage which in IMHO is the worst thing about the present system

    137. MJack says:

      Liquid Lenny, we could always have a look around for the best looking royalty from another country and employ them!

    138. Fiona says:

      @Liquid Lenny: not letting me post here again so I have put a reply here

    139. Liquid Lenny says:

      Manx Radio having talk in on subject of Scots Independence. normal crap being spouted, just send the
      host a copy of the wee blue and he has just read out how to download the wee blue book from WOS 🙂

      Re Bet 365, just registered to use you get 100% bonus on first deposit, so deposited £200 got 9/2 on yes vote first on the £200 deposit then 9/2 on the Bonus amount of £200 🙂

    140. Phil Robertson says:

      @Robert Peffers says:
      “In the first place there is only one way for the Barnett Consequentials to increase the Scottish Block Grant. That is by positive Barnett Consequentials. The only way Barnett Consequentials become positive is due to English spending increasing … ”

      And as I said, that is what has happened. I quote from the Scottish Government website, “Resource funding has increased by £284.6 million in 2014-15, from £11,321.8 million to £11,606.4 million. This is the full amount of the budget consequentials arising from the increase to health in England and delivers on the Scottish Government’s commitment to pass on the resource budget consequentials in full to the health budget in Scotland.”

      Spending on England’s NHS is scheduled to increase from £105.6b in 2013-14 to £110.4b in 2015-16 – that means Scotland’s funding will increase too.

      “that money was spent on private sector health care, that is perfectly normal, and has NOTHING to do with privatization. in other words did private health care companies bid and get scot nhs work? and 37% rise of what amount, do tell us/me what that original amount was?”

      Contracting out NHS work to private companies is exactly what the argument in England is about. The latest figures for Scotland seem to be in the range £35/40M annually.

      And while you worry about the NHS in Scotland you might want to ponder on the thoughts of Mike Russell, the Education Minister, who has advocated the privatisation of NHS facilities that “fail to maintain profitability”.

    141. fred blogger says:

      Phil Robertson
      no!, it is entirely different.
      the scot NHS still control the responsibility for core health care purchase provision/work allocation, but farm it out when required.
      ie buy’s health care from others, but still retains power over who does what.
      (PFI causes a £220 pa millstone to scot NHS).
      the argument in is about the NHS losing the work altogether too private providers, as the NHS will have to bid to retain it’s work against a stacked marketised system.
      this vid from dr lucy reynolds explains it.

    142. fred blogger says:

      Phil Robertson ps
      should read;(PFI causes a £220m pa millstone to scot NHS).

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