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Many a true word

Posted on August 25, 2015 by

You’d put this down as a slip of the tongue, but when it came in the middle of an extended bout of bodyswerving John Mackay’s straightforward question about a referendum on Trident, maybe Kezia Dugdale really was just saying what she meant.

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    1. 25 08 15 23:43

      Many a true word | Speymouth

    188 to “Many a true word”

    1. Morag says:

      I had to re-run that in my head three times before I got it.
      #tired #canvassing

    2. scotsbob says:

      Do you all notice how she has been coached in her delivery recently.

      She now turns on this insincere smile every time she answers a question.

    3. Peter Mirtitsch says:

      Ahahahahaha!!

      Thanks Kez. That’s what we all thought.

    4. Graeme Doig says:

      Wow. Listened to the extended Slaver cut. There’s a born leader if ever there was one.

      Absolute gormless bag of wind. If there’s going to be any ‘Corbyn’ effect Kezia will more than wipe that out.

    5. Kevin Evans says:

      Aye watched that waste of time interview last night. It was crap then and it crap now

    6. Suzanne says:

      Oh that pesky unconscious, sneaking its way in there.

    7. Lollysmum says:

      She’s been practising-only speaking at half speed & wow a very tight smile if you can call it that. Definitely needs more work:-)

      Oh & content? Null points 😉

    8. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Ach. Leave the lassie alone. She’s not up to it and we don’t need to pillory her.

      Political loyalty is a difficult thing. Lots of decent people make fools of themselves because of it but nothing is ever achieved without it. As we should know.

    9. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      hmmm ?
      Rev Stu – do you know all that AMS and d’Houdt stuff.

      How does it work out if the SNP have 90% of the vote?

    10. HandandShrimp says:

      I listened to the body swerving a couple of times and it struck me how similar it was to Jim Murphy.

      How hard would it have been for her to say that she personally didn’t agree with Alex on a referendum but was happy to have that debate and put it to conference?

      Instead it was meet the new boss, same as the old boss. I knew we could count on Kezia 🙂

    11. heedtracker says:

      I’m not a doctor but this is clearly another case of Jim Murphyitis. Jim Murphyitis is incurable, extraneous symptoms include covering your ears, looking away in embarrassment, uncontrollable urge to throw your tv out the window, never voting SLabour again.

    12. Lesley-Anne says:

      Labour party not afraid to shy away from debate!

      Hmm … are you for REAL Kezia?

      I wonder how long this *ahem* new line will last before it all turns pear shaped … AGAIN … and normal service is resumed … SNP Bad!

    13. mr thms says:

      What I’ve noticed about her answers.. gobbledygook.

    14. ThemadMurph says:

      I’ve had a few drinks while watching the football. Perhaps in not at my sharpest! I listened to the whole interview first and completely missed it!

      It’s good to know Labour are not afraid to shy away from the big issues! Nothing changes!

    15. Still Positive. says:

      I clicked on the link of the whole piece on FB earlier and one of the “suggested videos” which came up afterwards was a video one of my friends had posted earlier of her cats searching for something she couldn’t see under a piece of furniture!

      Sure there is a metaphor in there somewhere – Kezia is as irrelevant as her cats looking for something imaginary!

    16. desimond says:

      Praise be..a Kajagoogoo reference…bravo Ref!

    17. Gillian_Ruglonian says:

      Who’s still buying this ‘Scottish labour’ pish apart from the ‘Scottish media’ eh?

      I don’t know a single soul that’s got any time for them (excepting of course their local councillors, but realistically they’ve probably only got their job prospects in mind not their parties prospects)!

      Who knows where they go now (having never been a labour voter, frankly I don’t care), but surely just asking people what they want from a (branch office?) party is a good way to start.

      Treating people like they’re idiots that need to be told what’s best for them is a bizarre strategy, and just because it happened to work in the past doesn’t mean they should keep doing it. Wake up and catch up Kezia, stop all the pish!
      (unless of course, you’re actually a SNP plant in which case, keep up the good work 🙂 )

    18. birnie says:

      “A Labour Party that’s not afraid TO SHY AWAY from debate”.

      Well, you said it ,Kez, you said it! And we can count on your “party” to continue to follow your lead.

    19. Ian Brotherhood says:

      All hail dear Kezia – she’s delivered this place a much-needed change of subject.

    20. Graeme Doig says:

      Dave McEwan Hill

      I can sometimes feel a wee tinge of sympathy for Kezia until i realise that she has put herself forward to make a play for the leadership of this nation of ours.

      I’m embarrassed for her just thinking about it.

      She really needs a more responsible group of friends to be hanging around with.

    21. cirsium says:

      That deserves a place alongside Sarah Boyack’s reply on Scotland Tonight 24 November 2014. When asked about devolving income tax she stated “I have reservations, I want to ensure that Scotland is not better off”.

    22. snode1965 says:

      Kezia is being moulded by the same team that did such a great job with Murphy and Miliband.
      Under interrogation from interviewer, repeat well rehearsed mantra until allotted time runs out.

    23. Andrew Scott says:

      Morag is right! I had to listen to it twice before it dawned on me!

    24. Anagach says:

      We need a conversation about a Labour Party thats not afraid to shy away from debate… actual policies will have to wait for London to send them up.

    25. green_pedant says:

      She dodged the questions with all the style of cold custard falling off a table. Feel sorry for the interviewer…

    26. heedtracker says:

      Poor Kezia, SLabour don’t even get a seat on flabby old Steve Bell comedy train.

      https://archive.is/dstKo

    27. Clootie says:

      She does not annoy or anger me because she is foolish or lying and misleading people.

      She angers me because she supports a union that is hurting people. A union that is damaging lives across Scotland.

      Her party and her Unionist values are more important to her than her fellow Scots.

      She could create a true Scottish Labour Party. She could fight for a nation that delivered a fair society.

      …instead she embraces Tory values and policies.

      She is free to be a fool. She is not free to damage the lives of others.

    28. Doug Daniel says:

      I’ve never understood the hype behind Kezia. I’ve always felt she had at least learned how to act like a semi-competent politician, but I’d never seen any basis for the notion that she was “one to watch” and so on.

      But that interview just demonstrates how utterly out of her depth she is. She might have been fairly capable of parroting party lines as a shadow minister, but she just doesn’t come across as a leader at all. It’s like a work experience person has suddenly been made the (branch) manager or something – they’ve got an idea what they’re supposed to do, but they just look silly trying to do it.

      She’s always been quite insincere, but I’m stunned by how unconvincing she is here. It’s so obvious that she’s not ready, if indeed she ever would have been.

      (Naturally, the media will spend the next 8 months furiously trying to convince us otherwise, despite all the evidence that will mount up.)

    29. Lesley-Anne says:

      Having watched that … what can I call it … *ahem* excellent interview piece there … I’m confused.Is oor Kezia FOR or AGAINST Trident or is she still waiting for her decision to arrive, via pigeon post, from the up and coming *cough* new Labour leader in London. 😀

    30. manandboy says:

      No, Kezia. What the public wants is a Labour party that’s gone.

    31. Papadox says:

      Kezia honey, you should listen to Johan! Your genetically not capable of doing politics. There’s a first Johan was right about something.

    32. Graeme Doig says:

      “We stand for a Scotland where a person’s ability to get on in life is determined by their potential, work rate and ambition, not by their background.”

      The problem for the people affected by this philosophy espoused by Kezia on Aug 21st (or was it IDS on a weekly basis) is that it is exactly their background that determines a persons potential, work rate and ambition.

      Another nonsensical statement from a ‘leader’ who has developed soundbite tourettes.

    33. Stoker says:

      Jeez, never mind the bimbo, DimJim has had a makeover, Dimbo!
      The more things change the more they stay the same, eh!

    34. Marko says:

      I agree with the Murphy comments, I’ve thought there was a bit of Jim about her for a while, I’m sure he trained her to do the soft reassuring voice, apparently unaware that it sounds patronising and slightly sinister.

      But anyway, I just wanted to say “redemocrasising”!?

    35. chris kilby says:

      Whoops.

      (Don’t ever risk farting and chewing gum at the same time, Kez.)

    36. heedtracker says:

      “Jez we can! Corbyn draws thunderous support on rainy day in Middlesbrough”

      Rancid the Graun on JC. Seriously though, if you were red tory Kezia, keen on nukes under the Clyde, hard core red tory BBC unionist, with all the UKOK meeja boosting you to unionist red tory heaven, what would be your future career plans when Jez becomes leader of Labour?

      Interesting times ahead for the UKOK creep show at Pacific Quay. JC bad, Kezia good, vote SLab, don’t vote Lab, nukes keep you safe, JC’s next Michael Foote, kezia fired and gets proper job…

    37. dakk says:

      Heedtracker. 11.55

      ‘Kezia fired and gets proper job’

      Kezia fired and gets first proper job.

    38. Lesley-Anne says:

      dakk says:

      Heedtracker. 11.55

      ‘Kezia fired and gets proper job’

      Kezia fired and gets first proper job.

      Kezia fired and returns to university to investigate what a first proper job actually entails! 😀

    39. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      “More space”.

      How often did she utter that phrase? Have they realised that “Labour values” wasn’t working and they’ve come up with a new sound bite?

      I need more space to assimilate that…

    40. charlie says:

      Kezia on till at Asda: Sorry card declined, machine’s playing up, oh you’ve got the cash, I can’t take cash cause you’ve put card through. [voices in head: I’m talking shite but I’m not sure why, I’m losing a customer but I can’t stop myself]. Thnak you, have I a nice day. Oh they’ve gone.

    41. MJT says:

      Kezia won’t perform miracles as the new Branch Office Leader, and for many it’s a never ending story, same old same old wind and pish – but crazy peoples have a right to speak too.

      If Kezia had some courage, if she could cast off the white feathers, if she was more Googoo than Kaja; listened to the people and not the jetsetters and really focused on Scotland and not life in the Big Apple of her blinkered mind…all that being said if and when Kajagoogoo embark on another reunion tour, she won’t have to go shopping for an outfit, and I mean all the best when i say that.

    42. John Moss says:

      Kezia’s wearing my Mum’s curtains…what’s that all about?

    43. ClanDonald says:

      Once we’ve had the discussion about our conversation on shying away from the debate we will make sure we discuss organising a conversation about how we take the debate forward. That, I can assure you, is the conversation that I’ll be discussing.

    44. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Don’t know about anyone else, but right now? disgusted at the quality of debate here.

      Planning some major assault on the British State, when ‘we’ have 56 pro-indy reps in the heart of it all, but not a jot of real change has been achieved?

      And the last three posts have been snarling around unknowable stats?

      Fuck right off with that.

      I don’t see any change.

      Please, anyone, show me where it is.

      ‘In the meantime…’

      ‘Come the day…’

      ‘Hold your fire…’

      ‘Keep the powder dry…’

      Ad fucking nauseum.

      WOS is fast-becoming a parlour game for pedants who wouldn’t ever dare park their arses down on one of the Queen’s Highways lest they get a criminal record.

      I’m one of the ‘old’, boring voices in this place – if some new, young fresh voices don’t appear – soon! – I’ll be an ex-reader.

      Seriously. 🙁

    45. manandboy says:

      “Never tell the public anything they might want to know.” Kezia Dugdale’s formula for electoral success in Scotland. You know, I actually prefer George W Bush to Kezia. ‘Dubya’ knew deep down he was kinda stupid, whereas Kezia doesn’t have a deep down.

    46. Democracy Reborn says:

      Jesus Christ, that was a complete car crash. Is she trying to imitate Sarah Palin?

    47. Gerry says:

      Democracy Reborn says:
      26 August, 2015 at 1:16 am
      Jesus Christ, that was a complete car crash. Is she trying to imitate Sarah Palin?

      Isa from Still Game maybe ?

    48. Cactus says:

      Going by the above performance, subsequent live TV interviews will be cringingly hilarious (that is if you still pay for/watch the current live broadcast UKTV?)

      It wont be long now till ze BBC start putting together ‘cut-n-paste-Kezia’ interviews, you know for sure like.. You’ve Been Framed ~ The Best Bits!

      As always, ye canny defend the indefensible.. eh literally.

      So here’s an on topic commented link, re many a true word:

      A popular song by Kajagoogoogogogoch
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDz1JyDp7aE

      Morning all.

    49. donald anderson says:

      Her new flattened pack cabinet still consists of Murphy’s Muppets.

    50. john king says:

      Hoss Macintosh says
      “hmmm ?
      Rev Stu – do you know all that AMS and d’Houdt stuff.

      How does it work out if the SNP have 90% of the vote?”

      Oh PULEEEZ
      by all that is holy,
      don’t go there if you value you sanity!
      ______________________________________________________________
      Doug Daniel says
      “It’s like a work experience person has suddenly been made the (branch) manager or something – they’ve got an idea what they’re supposed to do, but they just look silly trying to do it.”

      Maybe she was just waiting for a bus?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWAvHnfJsOQ 🙂
      __________________________________________________________
      Papadocs says
      “Kezia honey, you should listen to Johan! Your genetically not capable of doing politics. There’s a first Johan was right about something.”

      Dammit,
      I hate people who are allowed up later than me. 🙁
      ______________________________________________________________

      Handandshrimp says
      “I listened to the body swerving a couple of times and it struck me how similar it was to Jim Murphy.”

      You mean it WASNT?
      I thought is WAS Murphy, he was just trying something. 🙂
      ______________________________________________________________
      Lesley-Anne says
      “Labour party not afraid to shy away from debate!

      Hmm … are you for REAL Kezia?

      I wonder how long this *ahem* new line will last before it all turns pear shaped … AGAIN … and normal service is resumed … SNP Bad!”

      Oh cumon now LA you know they’re not genetically programmed for debate
      its not their fault its just the way it is. 😉
      _____________________________________________________________
      Gillian Hi Gillian 🙂 says
      “(unless of course, you’re actually a SNP plant in which case, keep up the good work 🙂 )”

      What the hell are you doing agent Ruglonian? (not real name)
      thing Cosa Nostra
      think OMERTA
      shush! 😉
      _____________________________________________________________
      Birnie says
      ““A Labour Party that’s not afraid TO SHY AWAY from debate”.

      Well, you said it ,Kez, you said it! And we can count on your “party” to continue to follow your lead.”

      thats gonna follow her around like a bad smell for the year (maybe less) of her leadership
      she should have been listening to Joanne Lamont, maybe she’s not “genetically programmed” to listen? 🙂
      ______________________________________________________________
      Ian Brotherhood says
      “All hail dear Kezia – she’s delivered this place a much-needed change of subject.”

      Praise be her name!
      I had thought of self harm for a while but I just couldn’t bring myself to go onto Terry Kellys page and hurl some abuse at him,
      not when Im wearing new shoes, the wife would kill me! 🙂
      ________________________________________________________________
      Greame Doig says
      “She really needs a more responsible group of friends to be hanging around with.”

      Fit aboot my wee granddaughter Jodie (aged 9 and 3/4) she’s been getting a wee bit jaded since the referendum, she could do with someone of her level to sharpen up her debating skills again. 🙂
      _____________________________________________________________
      John Moss says
      “Kezia’s wearing my Mum’s curtains…what’s that all about?”

      She needs to pull herself togeth….
      Im going Im going, no need to push. 🙁

    51. scotspine says:

      Thought I read on this site that viewer numbers for BBCs Scotland 2015 were around the 7000 people mark?. But then am I getting confused with GMS listening figures of around 5000?

      Can someone confirm which is which guys?

    52. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I recall – before she was handed her jotters, someone’s description of JoLa was that she reminded him that: “Somewhere there is a Scotmid branch missing an assistant manager”.

      In prior posts on this thread, Fi Fi La Bon Bon is described as an Asda check-out operator.

      I reckon she is nothing more than a work experience girl who has forgotten how to get back to her school and hung around the branch.

    53. Mealer says:

      Scotspine
      The figure I’ve heard is 5217 for Scotland 2015.Johann lamont was always telling us they’d be having a debate about things but I really can’t remember them ever actually doing so.I honestly can’t imagine anyone wanting to listen to Alex Rowley debating anything.m

    54. Socrates MacSporran says:

      scotspine asked about Scotland 2015 viewing figures and GMS listening figures.

      As the guy who thought-up this one, I am going with:

      5217 viewers for Scotland 2015

      7512 listeners to GMS.

    55. Grouse Beater says:

      “Bloop, gloop, gobbledegook.”

      The Labour party has flown south for the winter.
      Only flightless stragglers are left behind.

    56. Sinky says:

      Remember the heady days when Labour had 20,000 members in Scotland and a similar number watched BBC Scotland 2015

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13163077.Viewers_vote_with_remotes_against_BBC_s_referendum_show/

    57. CameronB Brodie says:

      ‘Mon the microbes.

      Genetics provide the raw ingredients for making us who we are physically but it is our experience of the physical and cultural environments that shape our identity. To believe otherwise, one would have to accept there is no potential for improving the human condition. One would have to believe things are as they should be. One would have to believe that economic markets in far flung locations, are the best determinant of public policy in Britain. A position British Labour appears to have adopted but one which not only goes against my core beliefs but empirical scientific evidence, as well.

      Why do so many lawyers think they have what it takes to help improve society?

    58. john king says:

      Socratese McSporran says
      “In prior posts on this thread, Fi Fi La Bon Bon is described as an Asda check-out operator.”

      Cumon Socratese you know better than that,
      the rev’ll come after you with his hammer,
      OTHER SUPERMARKETS ARE AVAILABLE! 😉

    59. john king says:

      Grouse Beater says
      “The Labour party has flown south for the winter.
      Only flightless stragglers are left behind.”

      What?
      like this you mean?
      http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01406/greylag-goose_1406534c.jpg

    60. galamcennalath says:

      Yup, Labour in Scotland, the party branch which avoids real debate like the plague.

      As we are all well aware, they do little more than chant the mantra … SNP BAD!

      Kezia’s slip was indeed spot on truth, though I doubt very much if it IS what the public want to see.

    61. Sinky says:

      BBC GMS this morning again repeated Red Tory Ian Murray’s claim that he would vote against Trident but record shows that he has never voted against Trident when given opportunities in House of Commons.

    62. No no no...yes says:

      Sinky 8:25am

      What the BBC say Ian Murray will do and what he actually does are two different things. More like subliminal messages so that he come away with some super waffle when interviewed after the vote. Neither can be trusted any more.

    63. Now's the Hour says:

      So when does the debate about not shying away from debate begin?

    64. Lollysmum says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      I feel your pain!!!

    65. G H Graham says:

      And now a reaction from STV’s political analyst, Johann “Stairheid” Lamont in Benidorm …

      “Wee Dizzy wiz a belter. Hud that John bloke by the nadz an’ wuznae geein in tae his shite patter just coz he’s a fancy accent fae Hillington.”

      “Hoy kids, shut it! An dae sumfin wi that rubber crocodile. Ah canny see masel oan the telly.”

      “Whit’s that? Trident did ye say? Ah think ma shower wiz made by Shanks.”

    66. Doug Daniel says:

      Ian Brotherhood: “Don’t know about anyone else, but right now? disgusted at the quality of debate here.

      Planning some major assault on the British State, when ‘we’ have 56 pro-indy reps in the heart of it all, but not a jot of real change has been achieved?

      And the last three posts have been snarling around unknowable stats?”

      What do you expect? It’s the “silly season”, where politics essentially takes a few weeks off. The past few years, there’s always been referendum stuff to keep things going, but we’re back to normal electoral cycles now, so there are going to be times when there’s not much for Stu to do.

      Bear in mind the mission statement in the “about” box: “Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor”. It’s kinda difficult for Stu to monitor the media when the media’s not giving him much to monitor.

      The point of the last three posts were precisely that the stats people are using to try and push a “vote anyone but SNP in the list” agenda are unknowable. This meme has been gathering momentum recently, so Stu has done what he always does: cut through the bullshit and spell it out in simple terms for folk. Those articles are going to be increasingly important as the media starts jumping on the “vote anyone but SNP in the list” bandwagon when the 2016 campaign gets into full swing.

      What is it you want to see instead? What big stories are being left unchallenged? And what exactly are the 56 SNP MPs supposed to have managed to get changed less than four months after getting elected?

      Criticism is pointless unless it’s constructive.

    67. heedtracker says:

      SLabour Morningside speaks in fantasy UKOK propaganda world.

      “Don’t subject the BBC to ‘bullying tactics’, says shadow Scottish secretary”

      https://archive.is/tNd0h

      “Don’t subject the BBC to “bullying viewing queries” says shadow Scottish secretary, no.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/none-of-your-damn-business/#more-74701

      Another day of UKOK bullshitters in action.

    68. DerekM says:

      dearie me lmao poor Kez very poor.

      did anybody else get an image of the necromancer swearing his head off “isnt there anybody in this @***@… party that can get the script right”

      The answer John is no you are all eejits lol

    69. James Barr Gardner says:

      No change in slabber faces in opposition to SNP Scottish Government, so same old pish, except Kes Dug now speaking at half speed. Hopefully that will half the the amount of pish!

      Still it will be the usual message SNP bad, do you honestly think that the parcel o’rogues commonly known as the red tories are going to debate? Well wait for it.
      Yes! you’ve got it right again, yet another outright lie from the rid liebore tory party!

    70. rog_rocks says:

      OT just heard Andy Burnham on the radio (Radio Scotland they call it but perhaps it should be renamed Radio Britannia) and when asked about Labour and him not opposing benefit sanctions I’m sure I heard him declared he was in it for the party and not the people and that is how he will stay; I couldn’t believe he was saying this on a public radio show, thought something like that might be best kept to himself but there you go, I guess Andy Burnham is the candidate of choice :\

    71. James says:

      Wee bit of a sweat on there Kezia (top lip sweaty), what’s up hen the lies not so easy now that your head is on the block?

    72. frogesque says:

      As it is the silly season (and they don’t come more silly than dear Fi FI) I’m going to throw a curveball in I heard elsewhere.

      If, post Corbyn, either the right or left wing of the Labour party have a hissy fit and bugger off to form a separate party of, say, 57+ MPs would they then become Westminster’s third largest political party thus depriving the SNP of their current status?

      More musical chairs? Less time given for questions? re-hashing of Committees?

      Are Labour just spiteful enough to do it anyway?

    73. gerry parker says:

      Scotspine at 6:46.

      Not sure on those figures mate, but I think around a 35% decline in viewing figures since the referendum has been mooted elsewhere.

      Absolutely shocking decline.

      😉

    74. Achnababan says:

      Where is the Rock – I miss him (her)!

    75. Achnababan says:

      Yes it is the silly season….

    76. Dan Huil says:

      Just as Jim Murphy’s softly-softly aren’t-I-sincere voice makeover made him sound even more insincere we now have Dugdale trying the same tactic. Just as insincere; even more fundilymundily incomprehensible.

    77. Mealer says:

      Gerry Parker 9.49
      Scotland 2015 has an audience of 5217 apparently,but I’m not sure if that’s the same 5217 people each night.Also,I don’t know how up to date that figure is.It might well have declined another 35% giving a current audience of 3391,but that’s speculation.

    78. galamcennalath says:

      Not quite OT. Last night’s New Tricks. I wasn’t concentrating but I believe a crook said to Denis Lawson something like, “we should have got shot of you lot when we had the chance”. It appeared to have been said simply on hearing Lawson was Scottish, unprovoked in the script, you might say.

      Was this along the same lines as the Coronation Street jibe? Basically unnecessary, unless part of an agenda? Or is it just indicative of normal thinking down surf?

      And the BBC think THEY are being bullied!

    79. crazycat says:

      @ Mealer

      When somebody told Craig Murray how many votes Kezia got, another person told him the figure was wrong, but declined to provide a correct one; he therefore concluded that the original figure was approximately right.

      The figure for Scotland 2015 viewers was similarly suggested by Socrates McSporran (I think) as a potential way of getting the actual figures as a reaction. Unless I have completely misunderstood, it is not a real statistic.

    80. crazycat says:

      @ Mealer

      The figure for viewers is also exactly the same as the one Craig got for Kezia’s support, which also suggests it’s not real. The other figure (7125) for another programme is merely the same digits in a different order.

    81. Mealer says:

      Crazy cat 10.23,
      Who said what about which I’m not really sure.The fact is,the only figure being bandied about for Scotland 2015 is 5217.It sounds quite plausible to me,given the abysmal standard of the programme.As far as I’m aware the BBC haven’t denied its accuracy.

    82. Clootie says:

      Under Kezia’s leadership you can be assured that no problem will be too big to run away from.

    83. nainatal says:

      galamcennalath:
      You missed the other jibe on New Tricks then? The one about deep fried Mars Bars and Irn Bru?

      Beginning to look like a pattern at BBCOKUK?

    84. Haggis Hunter says:

      Was it Napoleon that said, they came at us in the same old way and we took them out in the same old way.

    85. crazycat says:

      @ Mealer

      Not having a TV, I’ve never watched it; I’m quite prepared to believe it’s dire!

      I shall await with (not much) interest any response from the BBC, should they ever find out that the figure has been suggested.

    86. Fred says:

      As she reaches for that glass of Irn Bru. 🙂

    87. HandandShrimp says:

      The figures for Kezia’s election are plausible. We know they said there were about 20,000 full members and affiliates. We also know that there were concerns regarding a poor turnout because neither candidate really set the heather on fire. A 35% to 40% turnout for a not particularly exciting election is not that bad really.

      The only real surprise was the size of Kezia’s victory and Alex winning deputy rather than Baker.

      As to the viewing figures for BBC Scotland news…in the absence of data we are entitled to guess. Scotland 2014 viewing figures dropped like a stone and the BBC have said nothing about them since. 43 seems like a fair guess for Scotland 2015 (assuming it is still on – I never watch TV news but I am grateful Stu endures it on our behalf)

    88. Luigi says:

      Whenever you hear a Labour politician say:

      “Sure, let’s have a debate on Trident!”

      What they actually mean is:

      “Trident must stay. Let’s kick this into the long grass and forget about it – please!

      Learn the Labour lingo, folks. It ain’t that difficult.

    89. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Doug Daniel (9.18) –

      ‘Criticism is pointless unless it’s constructive.’

      Thanks for the advice.

      I didn’t criticise Rev or this site. I was shouting about the quality of ‘debate’, and I’m no less pissed-off about it now than I was last night.

      That’s allowed, eh?

      Regarding ‘silly season’, it doesn’t bother me what Rev writes about, and it’s never even occurred to me that the gravity of posts bears any relation to the dates of politicians’ holidays.

      What do I want to see? I’m not going to bore you with the details, but it involves more than brilliant investigative and/or analytical journalism – it involves people of like mind getting together VIA places like this to organise themselves and DO something.

      I appreciate that the SNP offers the best hope of democratic change in this country, and I dare say most reasonable observers would agree that the constitutional make-up of the UK is going to have to change as a result of their success.

      But how long will the British State hold out before allowing the change we have already voted for, and will surely confirm next May? Five years? Ten? More?

      I don’t want to fall out with you Doug, but you’re forcing my hand here – do you honestly believe that we will have independence handed to us as the result of elections? If so, fair enough. Perhaps I’ve just become so cynical that I truly can’t see it, or don’t want to, but a lot of people feel the same, and those are the folk who will not come here to read four-day ‘debates’ about known unknowns.

    90. Petra says:

      Interesting, even more interesting, times ahead. Outspoken Rowley behind her, Corbyn in front if he becomes Labour Leader and a pack of known liars, such as Baillie, surrounding her.

      And then she’s to face Nicola Sturgeon who won’t let her get away with such flimflammery. Kezia’s surely made a poor career choice. She should just stick to writing for the Daily Record where she fits in well and is no doubt lauded by her colleagues for spouting her tommyrot.

    91. R-type Grunt says:

      @ frogesque

      Surely if however many Labour MP’s broke away to form a new party there would need to be by-elections in those MP’s constituencies?

    92. R-type Grunt says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood

      Amen Brother!

    93. starlaw says:

      Listened to Andy Burnham this morning and yup Party before People was mentioned. Abstaining from voting means you actually voted for several other things at the same time, other things nobody else knew or thought about, or even seen, so that’s the abstensions cleared up. Good old Andy you’ve cleared everything up.

    94. HandandShrimp says:

      R Type

      They were be nothing to compel by elections. It might happen but if Labour MPs did split to form a New, New Labour they might want to get bedded in before going to the electorate.

      A bit of a nuclear option if they do that though. I think it more likely that they will try an in-house coup to get rid of Corbyn should he win…they are busy weeding out their voting register as we speak.

    95. chris kilby says:

      Jez We Can!

      (Kez You Can’t!)

    96. HandandShrimp says:

      “They were be nothing”

      Good grief! The old multi tasking skills failed a tad there.

    97. crazycat says:

      @ R-type Grunt

      When (mostly) Labour MPs defected to the SDP in the 1980s, only one of them resigned and fought a by-election. He thus split the vote between himself and the new Labour candidate, allowing the Tories to gain the seat.

      The 2 UKIP by-elections in the last parliament were unusual; most people who change parties appear to think they were elected on a personal vote and so do not need to resign. Or perhaps they are just not brave (or reckless 🙂 ) enough.

    98. frogesque says:

      R-type Grunt says:
      26 August, 2015 at 11:14 am
      @ frogesque

      Surely if however many Labour MP’s broke away to form a new party there would need to be by-elections in those MP’s constituencies?

      Didn’t happen when the Gang of Four formed the SDP

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democratic_Party_(UK)#Creation_of_the_SDP


      At the time of the SDP’s founding, Owen and Rodgers were sitting Labour Members of Parliament (MPs);

      Also, there’s quite a few MPs have had a change of clothes without going through a by election.

    99. Pam McMahon says:

      donald anderson@5.39 am
      “flattened pack cabinet”?. Don’t think it came from Ikea, unfortunately; it came ready assembled from the 1970s.

      Lesley-Anne@11.27pm
      Pigeon post? Is WM not extending High Speed Doo to Scotland then?

    100. call me dave says:

      Bend me shape me anyway you want me says Andy!
      There’s a song in there somewhere. 🙂

      What a pair eh! Zeia and Andy opening a whelk stall!

      https://archive.is/1Kxxe

      PS:
      I like footie for it’s own sake and I support any Scottish team in competitions. Very disappointing last night thought 🙁

      Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I don’t like that attitude. I can assure them it is much more serious than that.
      OR

      It’s only a game?

      Aye right try this! Which came to mind from away back.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IguzgGx7y-8

    101. call me dave says:

      On my key board K and Z are nowhere near each other…Doh!

    102. jackie g says:

      Has anyone seen this:

      The leader of one of the UK’s biggest trade unions has had his vote in the Labour leadership election rejected.

      Mark Serwotka, general secretary of the Public and Commercial Services (PCS) union, voted for Jeremy Corbyn, but was told his vote would not be counted.

      Mr Serwotka has previously publicly criticised Labour’s “move rightwards”.

      Oh Dear not going well is it.

      😕

    103. @frogesque

      In Westminster Elections you are voting for the person not the party.

      He/She can jump ship from one party to another any time and as often as they want.

    104. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT but does the Herald always lift stories straight from other newspapers?

      Early this morning I read (with a tear in the eye) that the BBBC was suffering and if cuts fell on them 32,000 jobs could go.

      I was quite surprised to find that the same story had turned up with little change of the Herald website.

      Apart from anything else ,just how many does the national propaganda broadcaster support?

    105. Bob Mack says:

      Dugdales answer could not have been clearer.
      She has no authority to make that type of decision.
      The phrase ” open up the debate” actually means “I dont know yet”

    106. Doug Daniel says:

      Ian Brotherhood – fair dos, so it’s the standard of below-the-line comments that’s getting your goat, rather than the articles themselves? Not really getting what you think should be happening instead, to be honest. The debates in the comments invariably follow the content of the article, and there’s not much for folk to be getting their teeth into at the moment.

      Kinda sounds like you’re just being the grump in the corner demanding that everyone else in the room needs to up their game and entertain you, to be honest, and I’ve never seen that work as a strategy for enthusing folk…

    107. Flower of Scotland says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      “Four day debates” about known unknowns.

      Sorry Ian, I for one an really glad that we have had these “debates”. Lots of people on Facebook have been clamouring for help in understanding the “ins and outs” of the voting system.

      I just send them here and they can make up their own minds. What,s bad about that?. Everybody wins!

    108. galamcennalath says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      Wiki says “… over 20,000 staff in total, of which 16,672 are in public sector broadcasting.”

      The Herald says “Cutting the BBC’s funding could cost the economy 32,000 jobs, the corporation’s director general has warned.Tony Hall said that a 25% reduction to the licence fee would hit independent TV producers, suppliers and studios across the country.”

      This implies there are a lot of indirect jobs associated with the BBC.

      News, current affairs and politics in Scotland is just a tiny wee bit of the wider picture. If this aspect were to die a death, it would be a step forward! Obviously doing their job properly and impartially would be ideal. Failing that, simple removing Pacific Quay from the scene would still be a step forward.

    109. galamcennalath says:

      Herald article on the BBC referred to in previous posts says…

      “BBC’s director of television, Danny Cohen …… said that the public would not want “UK-unifying” events such as the Olympics, Wimbledon, the football World Cup and the FA Cup final to be taken off free-to-air.”

      They just don’t get it! Their idea of UK-unifying has a distinctly England/London centric air to it!

      That’s the point, England and UK are completely interchangeable if their wee narrow minds.

    110. James Dean says:

      This next year is shaping up to be comedy central. Words cannot describe the joy of hearing Dugdale announced as leader, and she is certainly living up to my expectations.

    111. frogesque says:

      galamcennalath says:

      Failing that, simple removing Pacific Quay from the scene would still be a step forward.

      If nothing else, removing that hideous building would improve the view. It’s almost as if someone said what’s the worst thing we can do to stamp our mark on Scotland?

    112. Morag says:

      I enjoy Wimbledon, but I don’t feel particularly “country-unified” about it.

    113. heedtracker says:

      Other news

      http://www22.i-grasp.com/fe/tpl_glasgow01.asp?newms=jj&id=85627&newlang=1

      Adam Tomkins ?@ProfTomkins 3 hrs3 hours ago
      Peter Aitchison is one of the stars at @GlasgowUni. Come join his outstanding comms team http://www22.i-grasp.com/fe/tpl_glasgow01.asp?newms=jj&id=85627&newlang=1

      I’ve applied for this. Professor Tomkinski of bettertogether Slovenian is giving me a glowing reference and Prof T also massive boosterising Ruth Davidson speech which ends ”

      “Vote Tory, getting back to proper, old fashioned, blue collared Toryism”

      Uni’s are ivory towers but there is actually no blue collars left in Scotland, and all thanks the Westminster we somehow can’t get away from. Maybe with Prof T’s union jack specs on, Clydeside probably does look like it did 80+ years ago, up in Victorian gothic Glasgow uni offices.

      And that’s my teamGB funny that of the day.

    114. Graeme Doig says:

      I would imagine that a lot of Ian’s frustration is about the lack of action at the moment which allows this kind of random, shambolic treatment of people by the state:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-33862498

      (apologies if link doesn’t work. It’s from current Scotland section)

    115. Hawkeye The Gnu says:

      That’s what happens when you try to think too fast, and prepare an answer for the next question, whilst the mouth is still working on the last question. You leave the mouth behind and, removed from the brain’s conscious control, it has to tell the truth.

    116. Lochside says:

      Re. Ian Brotherhood’s frustration: I share it for this reason:

      Unless we get control over the BBC and or the msm in this country nothing will change:same old fear and smear ref. Corbyn’s treatment and SNP being sidelined deliberately.

      Otherwise all we’re doing on here is farting at thunder. The SNP need to demonstrate wholeheartedly that they are not some feeble home rule outfit, but a revolutionary movement aiming for change. Are they willing to do that by challenging the BBC’s hegemony ?

      I wanted this during the REF but all we got was Blair Jenkins’blandishments. The Unionists have been defeated and scattered in Scotland but the media won’t celebrate or broadcast this victory to the resistant 55%. Until we gain control over the media megaphone we can always be denied victory.

    117. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Doug Daniel –

      Grump? Oh aye, that’s me richt enough. 🙂

      We’re after the same thing here, but what gets me all snarky is the perception that a conventional democractic process is going to deliver independence.

      It isn’t.

      Let me throw another daft hypothetical into the mix – what if, next May, NO-ONE in Scotland votes for any party other than the SNP? Clean sweep. By sheer coincidence, Mundell, Murray and Carmichael all chuck it and the SNP mops up those Westminster seats as well. We take every position, in all tiers of government. The SNP membership hits 500,000.

      And let’s also imagine that ALL the MSM start supporting the idea of independence, or at least allow a level playing field for serious debate – Gary Robertson storms out of the studio, refusing to read the lines sent by London. And let’s get all the major business leaders, academics, psephologists and pundits on-board too.

      What then?

      Can we give formal notice to the MOD to pack up the warheads and GTF?

      Can we shut down the ATOS offices and Jobcentres which are systematically grinding our weakest neighbours into early graves?

      Can we start the ceremonial closure of foodbanks?

      Can we tinker with the price of a second-class stamp?

      I don’t come here to be ‘entertained’ Doug. I come here to get informed, make contacts, and, hopefully, participate in the movement which is going to change this country forever. No party – and that includes the SSP – can do that. We have to do it, and it’ll never happen unless we get off our arses.

      I apologise if my tone has annoyed you, but taking it personally is daft – you know as well as I do that the British State will never allow something as trifling as democratic shows of support to affect its long-term interests.

      Three years ago, hundreds of thousands of Scots hadn’t the faintest interest in ‘politics’ and could’ve cared less what happened in Holyrood and/or Westminster. That’s changed, and this site deserves great credit for the transformation in general awareness of the state we’re in. People have woken up – they can’t and won’t allow one another to nod-off again.

      If we’re still in this rancid ‘union’ in ten years from now then I’ll have lost my children because they will have gone abroad, like so many before them. I’ll get old, in poverty, subsisting on memories of 2014, and how good it felt in those few weeks before our bubble was burst.

      So, it’s deeply selfish, and perhaps even naïve to still hold out any hope that we will, one day, be able to decide the price of our stamps, but I’m one of many who cannot imagine it happening without a major non-violent civil rights campaign.

    118. heedtracker says:

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/25/the-guardian-view-on-alex-salmond-versus-nick-robinson-political-not-personal

      Usual smeary UKOK lies from rancid Graun again today. Jump in anywhere, how do creepy propagandists react when they are asked why they are such ferocious British only propagandists-

      “But the saga is more important than that. The referendum campaign was extremely challenging for all media, and especially for the national broadcaster.”

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/salmondbell.jpg

      Salmond “judges the media by whether they support his nationalist cause or not. At the SNP’s spring conference he proposed that the Scottish parliament, with its SNP majority, should be given control of broadcasting and the BBC in Scotland, even before any further referendum.

      This should be seen for the bullying that it is”

      So asking for balance in your forced by law to pay for BBC, is asking the BBC vote NO Project Fear show to support his nationalist cause?

      You could do this all day really. Our deeply creepy imperial masters say you’re a bully, if you talk back at them.

    119. Robert Peffers says:

      Socrates MacSporran says: 26 August, 2015 at 7:49 am:

      “As the guy who thought-up this one, I am going with:

      5217 viewers for Scotland 2015

      7512 listeners to GMS.”

      I think, , Socrates, you have the correct figures but have misconstrued, and overestimated, their significance.

      I can only speak personally, and explain that I often have the radio on and tuned to GMS. However I do not really listen to the content. That is with the exception of the weather reports and the news inserts. Even then I regard both of these with the same scepticism and reservation I hold for the rest of the outpourings of BBC Scotland.

      The use of the radio as background noise stems from my living alone since my late wife died. It is marginally better than the occasional growl, whine or urgent warning barking of the wee papillon bitch who is my constant companion.

      Mind you the BBC output makes even less intelligent sense than the wee dog’s communications. At least I can believe everything the papillon says for she is always 100% honest and truthful. If she yaps I am assured she has something very real to yap about and that’s far more than can be said about the BBC’s incessant yapping.

      So, Socrates, just how many others of those claimed listeners are, like me, just requiring a relief from the otherwise unbroken silence and who also cannot stand too much dire and unmusical pop-music or even the often far too heavy classical stuff the airwaves offer us?

      As the Rev Stu so often proves – it is one thing having information placed before you and quite another thing interpreting it properly.

    120. galamcennalath says:

      @Graeme Doig

      Just read the case study featured in that BBC article. Sad and depressing, also very anger inducing.

    121. Kennedy says:

      Freudian slip.

    122. AndyH says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood

      Well said sir!

      Things need to start coming together.

      What we have media/information wise in favour of Indy is very fragmented.

    123. Graeme Doig says:

      galamcennalath

      Indeed it is.

      I hate to have to give the DR any credit but they run a front page today about a DWP whistleblower on the same topic. Haven’t read any of the article. Don’t know if it’s worth someone archiving for us. (still can’t archive 🙁 )

      It’s this kind of thing that should get the blood pressure up and get us off our arses as a society. I’m guessing there’s just not enough Ian Brotherhood’s around at the moment. (good on you sir)

    124. Robert Peffers says:

      @Doug Daniel says: 26 August, 2015 at 9:18 am:

      ” … Criticism is pointless unless it’s constructive”.

      You said a mouthful there, Doug, and you stopped me having to continue biting my tongue so hard to not upset such critics.

      These critics should remember many seekers after Scottish independence are watching the approach of the end of their life and have been fighting the good fight for many long decades. Patience is a virtue and one that sustained the hard won, and often reversing, gains being won.

      A week may indeed be a long time in politics but decades are a short time in the fight for Scotland’s freedom. We have not, since 1314, been closer than today.

    125. handclapping says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      The answers would be Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes. But the what if is a dream too far.

      The actions needed at present are either
      A) start a political party in England that supports Scottish independence
      or
      B) start and find funding for an organisation promoting indyref2 with a useable database for canvass results, training in getting the vote out, finding out if and where Super Saturday canvassing works, getting to know journalists who will spike the BT2’s press releases, discrediting the BBC and on and on. All the things that prepare for a referendum that a political party like the SNP or SSP cannot do because they are political parties.

    126. heedtracker says:

      Unless we get control over the BBC and or the msm in this country nothing will change:same old fear and smear ref. Corbyn’s treatment and SNP being sidelined deliberately.

      We don’t want control of any media. Look at awful BBC Scotland is under red Tory control right now. It’s so corrupt and so afraid of change, they don’t even have the decency or conviction to publish their clearly awful viewing figures. British State run BBC media is there purely to brainwash their viewers.

      All that can happen now is relentless pleading with the BBC to give up some licence fee to Scotland, which they won’t do. The top BBC Scotland bloke is married to a Labour ex MP, lady or baroness or some such imperial master crap.

      The only way out for Scottish democracy is the real wordl we all live in. Fewer and fewer people watch TV like the UKOK propaganda rubbish that the daughter of John Smith, deceased leader of the Labour Party, currently presents.

    127. Robert Peffers says:

      @crazycat says: 26 August, 2015 at 10:23 am:

      ” … it is not a real statistic”.

      Perhaps so, but it is, actually, statistically closer to the true official quoted figure of, “Mind your own effing business”, that is propagated by the BBC.

      So, Until an actual official figure is given by the BBC, we must accept the one been given is the closest figure we have and it is, factually, far closer to the actual figure than their no given figures.

      Personally I believe it to be somewhat smaller than Socrates Mac’s estimated figure.

    128. manandboy says:

      Cameron, Osborne and Ian Duncan Smith make very heavy demands on the unemployed and disabled in order for them to get their benefits and avoid sanctions. But C,O & IDS never tell them to vote as a condition of payment. Funny that.

      For the Tories, democracy is an obstacle to power. That’s why they dispense with it as often as possible. This government received only 24% of the votes of the total electorate. The other 76%? – divide and conquer.
      Divide democracy to conquer democracy. As at Westminster, so also at Holyrood. Divide the SNP Constituency/List vote to undermine the SNP in the Scottish Parliament.

    129. frogesque says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood.

      I understand the frustrations. We need to start working on a written Scottish Constitution, start a Scottish Central Bank and decide what currency we shall use. There is nothing to stop anyone starting an online broadcaster, if it’s better than the current crop of mundanity then folk will use it. I’m sure there are many other things we can do.

      Just act independent; Nicola has shown the way in both America and China. We can promote ourselves as a vibrant free Nation without London’s permission. Stop bitching about loosing subsidies, make anyone who want’s our products esp. Electricity or water pay for it instead of paying obscene connection charges. Subsidise ourselves instead of the SE England.

      I’m with you, we must get off our arses, there is plenty we can do but civil disobedience is not the way forward

    130. starlaw says:

      DR and BBC Scotland both singing of the same song sheet re DWP mess in Scotland. Readership and Viewers must be at an all time low, this could be an attempt to bring them back, or to claim there is no bias in the reports they normally put out. One man compared sanctioned persons as PREY which they surely are.
      These two red tory outlets will soon revert back to the black arts.

    131. manandboy says:

      Re BBC budget cuts and layoffs.

      Anyone who thinks Westminster will pull the BBC out of Scotland should check their tablets. There’s been shome mistake.

    132. Kennedy says:

      Hush, Hush, lie and lie.

      Im also a child of the 80s Stu.

    133. Robert Peffers says:

      @R-type Grunt says: 26 August, 2015 at 11:14 am:

      “Surely if however many Labour MP’s broke away to form a new party there would need to be by-elections”

      Nah! R-Type, you are very wrong in that belief. Legally Parliament does not recognise political parties. When a constituency elects a member to represent them that member does indeed legally represent that constituency as their spokesperson.

      Parliamentary history records many Members who have jumped ship but remain the MP for their constituency. For example when Eric Joyce was expelled from the Labour party he continued as that constituencies MP. Likewise Margo McDonald was expelled from the SNP but continued to represent that constituency.

      The late Winston Churchill was a serial ship jumper throughout his political career. There has also been several cases of members, sometimes from different parties, forming new parties but they do not resign as MPs when doing so.

      In any case, if there were to be splits in the present Labour Party, the present party would continue with reduced total figures. It would only affect the SNP’s present status as third party if the breakaway faction or the remainder of the Labour faction outnumbered the SNP but it would then create a bigger number of parties at Westminster.

    134. Jack Murphy says:

      heedtracker says at 2:39 pm. :-
      “Fewer and fewer people watch TV like the UKOK propaganda rubbish that the daughter of John Smith, deceased leader of the Labour Party, currently presents.”
      It’s spine-chilling hearing the newsreader on Reporting Scotland saying,”Now over to Sarah to tell us about what’s on Scotland 2015 tonight”. CUE big smile.
      Sarah? Sarah who? I don’t like being patronised by all this chummy “Sarah” stuff.
      It’s acceptable for the weather and sport—-but NOT impartial politics.

    135. Les Wilson says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      A heartfelt comment Ian, one I can only agree with.

    136. heedtracker says:

      It’s spine-chilling hearing the newsreader on Reporting Scotland saying,”Now over to Sarah to tell us about what’s on Scotland 2015 tonight”. CUE big smile.

      Its toe curling propagnada shit, in HD. But its all about keeping girning away that you’re the greatest, most world respected teamGB BBC media in the whole wide world. TeamGEnglandB media, modesty incarnate but they are god like and puzzling too-

      Wings Over Scotland retweeted
      Douglas Fraser ?@BBCDouglasF 1h1 hour ago
      Newspaper sales Jan-Jun, yr-on-yr:
      @thecourieruk -8% to 45k
      @pressjournal -6% to 59k
      @heraldscotland -9% to 34k
      @TheScotsman -13% to 24k

      Eh?!!

      https://archive.is/Sm4FX

      “Press and Journal popularity soars over past year, survey shows
      26 August 2015 by Stephen Walsh”

      Readers of the Press and journal wont need reminding this UKOK crew alone, make the Daily Telegraph look like http://socialistworker.co.uk/

      And finally, if Scottish libraries, uni’s and colleges stopped buying the daily UKOK press creep show, what would real world sales of say the hootsman actually be?

    137. HandandShrimp says:

      Heedtracker

      I think the report on the press also indicated that the Scotsman on line version also fell fairly substantially, 33% according to the Groan. I can’t recall the last time I was there. A handful of Naw Trolls have pretty much made it their home from home and seem to have driven everyone else away….and that is just the journalists 😉

      Sunday Herald was up 15%.

    138. Legerwood says:

      Heedtracker

      A couple of nights ago on Reporting Scotland that the Herald, and I think the Scotsman, would be reducing the number of journalists they employ because sales were falling.

      The Herald had a relatively healthy on-line presence but I think their revamped comments section has lost them customers.

    139. Kennedy says:

      Ian Brotherhood.

      i get frustrated too. and impatient. and p1ssed off at the thought of people voting no to independence.

      if you are not angry then you dont know whats happening! you my friend sound angry.

      i have no words of comfort im afraid. i tell myself the SNP have a plan and its working. we need to support them in numbers and that looks like its happening.

      i doubt we will achieve independence without a fight. the SNP will fight with the support of the people. BUT I CANT WAIT.

      we are in the same boat. but we must play the game. if we go rogue then the SNP get the blame and that hinders their plan.

      if you need something to do then keep converting no voters. Keep talking about politics.

      my favourite game at the moment is when someone complains about the Torries, benefit cuts and austerity, i remind them that we voted for this. once the stunned silence evapourates and they say i didnt vote tory. i say you voted to stay together with England and accept the government that England wants. England want a tory government ergo you voted tory. that at the very least gets them thinking about the chance that they missed in Indy ref 1.

      its a small thing but its better than punching them.

    140. heedtracker says:

      HandandShrimp says:
      26 August, 2015 at 3:46 pm
      Heedtracker

      Its still a shock to see how few the Herald sells now with the P&J nearly twice as much too. If you dont live in the North East you wont believe just how hard core red and blue tory unionist the P&J is, with a bizarre anti wind energy fetish.

      You should never try and control the media, look at bad it is at Pacific Quay but you can control media ownership.

      I think Corbyn says media control could happen with him as PM, which means two things. UKOK press barons will destroy him and how many local rags would survive without big bucks support from hard core unionists that own all Scots media?

      Poor old Herald. Their top columnist Katherine Macleod? did an extraordinary BBC Project Fear job, 17 and 18 Sept on the BBC World’s relentless YES vote monstering I watched, her and Crash Broon. One raging at vile seps, the other whimpering at Scots not knowing what would be in their poor wee Scottish purses if we dare to vote YES, 19 Sept 2014, over and over and over til they won.

    141. David McDowell says:

      If Nicola Sturgeon had made this moronic gaffe it would have been plastered across all 56 UK broadcast and print media outlets.

      But since it’s coming from the latest “Saviour of Scottish Labour” it’s allowed to pass virtually without comment. That, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with media coverage of Scottish politics.

    142. dakk says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      It’s relatively early days in the new era of 56 pro Indy MPs so I would be expecting more action/resistance from them in the coming months and years.

      The Fluffy protests in Dumfries were a good example of how people power could be deployed effectively despite MSM spin on the story.

      I did get a feeling then that this type of action would be the final catalyst in achieving true constitutional change.

      Timing is important however and it could backfire if the action is seen as undemocratic and excessive by the majority of Scots who are not a revolutionary minded people(especially the comfortable middle class public sector who are so influential).

      Either way there are no guarantees and my belief is things will have to get worse for quite a few more people yet before they may be receptive to change.

    143. donald says:

      Really hard to care that people involved in lying to allow the continuation of the Union against the best interest of my children are losing their jobs. Really hard to care.

    144. bugsbunny says:

      Did anyone read Cat Boyd’s article on page 8 of yesterday’s National? She writes, “Paradoxically, by voting SNP on the second paper, you could be helping Labour and the Tories sneak back in”.

      Is this Project Fear2 by stealth?

      Stephen.

    145. @heedtracker

      Is that the same Catherine MacLeod that was a special advisor (SPAD)to Alistair Darling when he was chancellor of the exchequer and helped bring about the financial crisis.

    146. frogesque says:

      You can either be pissed off and do something or be pissed on and do nothing.

    147. T222Deracha says:

      Should be repeated to all and sundry, along with the other Labour(Northern Branch) mantras:

      “Scottish Nationalism is a virus” and “Scots are not genetically programmed to make political decisions”.

      Keeping reminding people of the contempt this political party(?) has for the Scottish population.

    148. heedtracker says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      26 August, 2015 at 4:39 pm
      @heedtracker

      Is that the same Catherine MacLeod that was a special advisor (SPAD)to Alistair Darling when he was chancellor of the exchequer and helped bring about the financial crisis

      Its just more dreary UKOK SLabour nepotism and then it becomes incredibly historic, with reference to BBC corruption, Treasury corruption, then back to self confessed historic BBC liars like Nic Robinson raging at Scots now “Putin like” for asking wtf is going on.

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13205789.Revealed__Civil_servant_who_issued_RBS_leak_email_links_with_Better_Together_leader/

      “Now the civil servant who issued the communication can be identified as Robert Mackie, the son of Catherine MacLeod, who was a special adviser to Better Together leader Alistair Darling when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer.”

      This is how teamGB referendums are fixed, not with rigged ballot boxes but mummy putting the Project Fear of YES up everyone in Scotland, every half hour on the BBC 17, 18 Sept 2014, sonny boy what got that tasty bettertogether Treasury job via SLab staggering expenses fiddler Alistair Darling, leaks a “communication” to the wildly hysterical UKOK BBC, that RBS is leaving Scotland with independence, breaking all kinds of civil service rulings, which nothing has ever come of, such is UK.gov.

      “Last night the Treasury insisted that Mackie only happened to be on duty at that time, despite his title of head of referendum communications. It also stated the email was a “reactive statement” issued on the instructions of senior HMT officials and Ministers – but refused to provide further details of who exactly approved the email.”

      Throw in their historic The VOW fraud, on the half hour Crash Brown rage at YES voters, on every BBC channel and bish bosh, Project Fear creeps in at 55%.

      Next time, the whole UKOK creep show, from corrupt BBC to even more corrupt civil service are going to have to work a lot harder at Project Fear 2, which is nice.

    149. Gerry says:

      26 August, 2015 at 10:44 am
      galamcennalath

      I didn’t catch that one on New Tricks, but I did hear one guy telling the scotsman that they “should have cut the jocks loose when they had the chance”. The BBC wouldn’t dare say this about any other race of people in any ot their series. Why are we different? When you actually listen to it – It’s actionable.

      As for Ian Brotherhood’s comments. When was the last time you got lifted protesting Ian ? I do share your frustration but the answer is actually to get off your ass and do something about it instead of moaning about what others are trying to achieve.
      Disgrace.

    150. Gerry says:

      The “disgrace” above referred to the BBC and not Ian, who’s frustrations I share. Sorry.

    151. sinky says:

      Just heard BBC newsprint radio on about falling newspaper circulations in Scotland but no mention of Sunday Herald increase.

    152. heraldnomore says:

      All they said on SH was that they failed to retain the pre-indy surge. Churlish or what? Year on year they had a stark contrast to all the rest, and even Douglas Fraser mentioned that in his tweet. But they just couldn’t do it…

    153. Tinto Chiel says:

      Criticising Kezia is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel: it’s fun at the start but it’s just too easy. I don’t think she’s the Stanley knife of the intellect either, as was shown when she went to her first Labour Party meeting off the street and came out an office bearer. Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel when it’s the BBC we should see as the real enemy? It’s the Unionist life-support system, pumping out Lord Haw Haw-style propaganda which is quite shameless. Without it, they would be totally screwed.

      I think that’s why Ian Brotherhood got so cheesed off today, which we all do from time to time. How do we beat our wonderful broadcaster? Well, actually, we’re winning: audience figures and licence fee payments are tanking, we just need to keep switching off. The next three years will decide our future but false moves will be punished.

      And 49,000 people read the P&J? I’m presuming it’s for the intimations, right? Or the super absorbency of the paper? There must be a lot of rabbit and guinea-pig owners in the NE. 49,000! Wow! (stares off into space, wondering…)

      Cat Boyd’s really gone off beam recently, what with calling fo Indyref2 asap and now not voting SNP on the list. Could be early signs of Scargill’s Complaint. Disappointing.

      Aye, the nights are fair drawing in.

    154. carjamtic says:

      The powerful try to frame the discussion in a way that benefits their interests,knowing that in a democracy they cannot simply impose their rule on others.In one way or another they have to ‘co-opt’ the rest of society to their agenda.

      Here the one percent have an advantage (MSM) we see how they manipulate public perception by appeals to fairness and efficiency,while the real outcomes benefit only them.

      In democratic societies,even given the power of the wealthy to control the media and shape perceptions,it is impossible to completely suppress ideas.

      The fire of Independance still burns bright it is the chain re-action of this fire that is being starved of oxygen via MSM.

      Independance will come….but as we do not have a fairground fortune telling machine (as in the above video),we do not know when.

      Some say when Lizzie retires,some say when Boris sits on the top seat or both ? All I can say that in an Independant Scotland the media must be re-shaped to remove the unevenness that exists.

      (Ref: Joseph Stiglitz : The Price of Inequality)

    155. pete the camera says:

      P&J sales up could be due to the job pages

    156. Dr Jim says:

      @Kennedy

      Absolutely, NO voters voted Tory, they got what they voted for, simples

    157. Lanarkist says:

      Prof. Robertsons report on Indy Ref Media analysis, all 171 pages of it.

      Some interesting insights to new media, old media bias and elite control systems interlocking to corrupt coverage.

      Enjoy!

      thoughtcontrolscotland.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/propagandascotlandreferendum2014.pdf

    158. call me dave says:

      Gordon Brewer bigging up Andy Burnham and the soon to be autonomous ‘Scottish’ labour… he’s on later tonight STV.

      I’ll only believe it if Stevie ‘the rocket man’ turns up to pop his thingy!

      http://www.behance.net/gallery/17279301/STV-Bingo

      Slow news day:

      Changed the beds and did the washing & ironing and round both the u-bends, wait till she comes in… 🙂 However!

      PS: Footie fans.

      Choose your game later:

      http://myp2p.ec/

    159. @Lanarkist

      Cheers for that you’ll maybe put a link in the new thread if you haven’t already.

    160. Iain More says:

      pete the camera says:

      26 August, 2015 at 7:03 pm

      P&J sales up could be due to the job pages

      I will never believe that.

    161. yesindyref2 says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      Well, this year was about the GE and Smith, Smith and the Scotland Act aren’t over or conclusive yet. But in any case it’s not a year since the last Ref, there’s still 3 weeks to go, schools are just back, it’s still partly peak holiday season with English schools not back some till 10th Sep I think. Plus Holyrood still off.

      I’d sxpect some activity coming up to the 18th, 18th itself and the 19th. Then a big push may well start around the SNP Conference, I suspect it’s going to be a biggy in many ways.

      The other thing is too that the SNP itself kept going solid over the Ref campaign, straight into increase in members and because of that I think, much extra work for the GE. I guess some are taking a break, and taking stock.

      This isn’t an excuse for anyone, just how I see it. But I would say that if nothing much happens from the SNP as the flag-bearers for Indy, the main party, there’s going to be muttering in the ranks.

      (mutter mutter)

    162. Iain More says:

      I guess that chap from the Norwegian State owned oil company Statoil wont be getting on STV/ Britannia TV Aberdeen again. He didn’t say what their Brit Masters would want him to say by the sounds of it.

      Oh and the Britannic Servants calling the Mariner Field huge on the news will no doubt result in a sacking or two. I almost choked on my supper when I heard the word huge used to describe something that is a burden round our poor Scottish necks.

      Meanwhile more anarchy and the end of western civilization chaos on the crooked Stock Exchanges. You know the shit that was supposed to happen if we voted Yes!

    163. Robert Peffers says:

      @crazycat says: 26 August, 2015 at 11:43 am:

      ” … most people who change parties appear to think they were elected on a personal vote and so do not need to resign.”

      As I already posted the candidate is indeed legally elected on a personal vote. Your wee cross in the box is legally for the named person to represent you and they can legally swap parties or go independent anytime they like.

      The actual law is that the electorate elect a spokesperson to represent them in parliament. Political parties were invented by the politicians for their good, not for the good of their constituents. This is one reason why there is no official written constitution nor official Bill of Rights.

      It is also why the Official name of the Parliament is, “Her Majesty’s Government”. The Prime Minister and all other ministers are Her Majesty’s, “Minister of Whatever”, Legally there are no political parties nor are there any laid down rules such as no applauding. It is all just custom and practice. Which, of course, makes a sham of, “Points of Order”, as there are no set rules and it is up to the Speaker to decide.

    164. Juan P says:

      @Kennedy

      i get frustrated too. and impatient. and p1ssed off at the thought of people voting no to independence.

      if you are not angry then you dont know whats happening! you my friend sound angry.

      i have no words of comfort im afraid. i tell myself the SNP have a plan and its working. we need to support them in numbers and that looks like its happening.

      i doubt we will achieve independence without a fight. the SNP will fight with the support of the people. BUT I CANT WAIT.

      we are in the same boat. but we must play the game. if we go rogue then the SNP get the blame and that hinders their plan.

      if you need something to do then keep converting no voters. Keep talking about politics.

      my favourite game at the moment is when someone complains about the Torries, benefit cuts and austerity, i remind them that we voted for this. once the stunned silence evapourates and they say i didnt vote tory. i say you voted to stay together with England and accept the government that England wants. England want a tory government ergo you voted tory. that at the very least gets them thinking about the chance that they missed in Indy ref 1.

      its a small thing but its better than punching them.

      Great post and something I take some, admittedly, small pleasure in pointing out to No voting friends (yes they’re still friends), family and colleagues.

    165. X_Sticks says:

      @Iain More

      What’s that about Statoil? I’ve missed that – any links?

    166. Robert Peffers says:

      @jackie g says: 26 August, 2015 at 12:22 pm:

      “Has anyone seen this: The leader of one of the UK’s biggest trade unions has had his vote in the Labour leadership election rejected.”

      Yes, Jackie g, and he is not the first and only one from the Trade Unions to have been so treated. It is quite obviously a Red Tory ploy to eliminate as many true Labour Party members as the Red Tories can identify.

      Note they claim they are depriving these people from a vote if they do not hold true Labour Party beliefs but who dictates, or indeed should dictate, what are Labour Party aims?

      In the SNP the members tell the branches and the branches send delegates to national conference where the policies are raised as proposals. There may or may not be counter proposals but the matter is debated and voted upon with everyone e last signed up member having exactly the same number of votes.

      With the other parties the leader does as he or she likes and the only way the members, or indeed the cabinet, has to prevent it is by a coup to depose the leader and replace him/her with another despot.

    167. Onwards says:

      This talk of not achieving independence from elections..
      What is the alternative ??

      Protests are fine, but at the end of the day people simply need to vote for it. It’s frustrating, but change happens slowly in Scotland. And most people here just don’t do protests.

      IMO we need an aspirational argument, not just grievance.
      Street protests, especially angry street protests, can end up backfiring. It allowed our opponents to paint independence supporters as a noisy mob and turned the whole issue into a class thing for many.

      It’s not just the votes of Tommy Sheridan and his pals we need to get over 50%. It’s middle class votes. It’s the housewife in Marks and Spencers.

      The independence cause has made good progress overall.
      Only a 6% swing is needed to get 51%, and 51% is enough.
      And if we gain independence, that 51% would soon be 90%.
      Change from the status quo is the big step.

      We can only focus on each election as it comes, and keep up the momentum.
      First step is to get an SNP majority to get the chance of a second referendum. That would most likely be around 2020 if we see another Tory government. By then enough Labour supporters and politicians in Scotland will have finally had enough.

      Too soon, and not enough will have changed.
      5 more years of younger voters might be enough on its own to get that 6% swing, along with continued social media influence and falling newspaper sales.

      The BBC can be countered by having a professional media panel publishing academic data weekly throughout a referendum campaign. Professor John Robertson on his own wasn’t enough.

    168. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dorothy Devine says: 26 August, 2015 at 12:33 pm:

      “OT but does the Herald always lift stories straight from other newspapers?

      Regarding that point, Dorothy, it hasn’t worker like that for a very long time. Originally the papers had reporters who sought out stories and investigated what was going on. Then they got news agencies who used to send out stories on, “The Wire”. Remember all those old movies with, “The Ticker Tape”, clattering away in the News Editor’s Office?.

      Then the system was modernised as the teletype which could still turn out the punched tape. However, the information was encrypted and the individual publications had to subscribe and pay for the services of such as Reuters News Service. The later machines could not only be sent by wire but by radio too and they could turn the tape into printed tape or even printed sheets. And then came the PC computers.

      So the modern newspapers get their stories directly d Wide News agencies and that is why different newspapers come up with almost word for word stories and even the same photographs and videos.

      Here you go – a link to Reuter’s UK : –
      http://uk.reuters.com/

      You too can get the news right from the agency just as the many UK dead tree press News Editors get it.

    169. Finlay says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      In my opinion we should just start campaigning for independence as we did when there were the impending vote last year and build up the momentum of the Yes campaign again. I am an SNP supporter but I do feel that the movement is being focussed on ‘working through the system’ too much and that has massive limitations. We should start taking back our independence outwith political parties.

      I’ve thought about starting a petition simply saying something along the lines of “I am a resident of Scotland and I demand Scottish Independence”. Explain that it is a non-political-party movement and convince people to get behind the wider Yes movement, if they agree they sign up, and when we have enough support we go to the Scottish Government and we say: “Scotland’s people are sovereign. We demand independence and you do not have the power to stop us! We have secured your grounds to leave the Union, now enact our freedom!”

      So I say lets get to it and set a start date to officially begin our new campaign for independence, lets get the momentum flowing again through the grassroots Yes movement. The end date is simply when we achieve a critical mass of traceable signatures to prove that it is time for independence. Scotland’s political parties can catch up with us later.

      Who cares if there hasn’t been another referendum planned through the ‘system’? I’d bet that most of the 45% of Yes votes last year weren’t won by political parties! They were won by the hard graft of many individuals with the common goal.

      We already have networks built and the Yes brand worked brilliantly, I think we should just stick with the same signage etc. again and re-ignite the whole campaign for independence.

      The rallies, the protests, the civic spirit, the crowd-funds, get loud and visible, cover the streets in posters and stickers and flags, do what we do so well through Wings, Bella, Newsnet Scotland, Newsshaft, Facebook, Twitter, talking to people and knocking on doors to spread the truth far and wide that this has to happen!

      It would also give Stu plenty to write about and the commenters plenty to act on as the mainstream media and the British establishment would inevitably try to ignore it, laugh at it and fight it!

      I’m usually a bit behind the wiser minds out there so I wouldn’t be surprised if such a thing is already in progress – in which case I’d love to join!

      As always; talking about doing something isn’t the same as actually doing it. Is this the sort of thing people would be interested in doing?

    170. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Finlay –

      🙂

      This is the crux, isn’t it? – the Prime Minister has ruled-out another referendum. The First Minister has said it’s for the people of Scotland to decide.

      But how do we express our ‘decision’?

      The RISE coalition is being launched this weekend, in Glasgow. Not sure if I’ll be able to go, but a lot of SSP folk will attend, and they’ll be expecting answers to some pretty tough questions.

      It wouldn’t be right for me to express any strong opinion on this initiative, but it may – just may – spark the type of positive activism which became normalised by the Yes campaign. For the greater aim of achieving independence, we should wish all the participants well.

    171. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Gerry (5.10) –

      Sorry not to have responded to your question earlier.

      Have I ever been ‘lifted’ for protesting? No. Never. I haven’t done that much of it, and have never been to Faslane (which seems to be a rite of passage for many rabble-rousers – there’s a great picture of the late writer/academic Angus Calder getting hauled off by four cops, and he’s grinning like the cat who got the cream…must try and find that).

      In my experience the cops have always been brand-new. Not all colleagues can report the same, but I’ve never met a grumpy one. On the day of the budget (the one before last, where they unveiled the benefits cuts) Ayrshire SSP ‘protested’ outside the Conservative Party office in Ayr. Maybe a dozen of us. Soon enough, two young officers arrived, went into the office to speak to the old dude who’d called them, then sauntered out and asked us what we were up to, how long we expected to be there. We told them we were there to wave at the rush-hour traffic and, hopefully, pass leaflets to the Council workers streaming out of the main buildings, and that we’d be packing up in an hour or so – they said ‘okay’ and went away, and that was that.

      I suspect Ronnie Anderson probably has the best cop-related anecdotes, although they may contain pandas.

      Hoots! 🙂

    172. Paula Rose says:

      Important announcement for those questioning Ian Brotherhood’s history of being lifted – since the referendum this is now possible, the unexpected side effect of the No vote is that he is now easy to carry and stow in a rucksack.

    173. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian B.

      When we were in George Square on 12th October last year, we met the wee policewoman from the BBC demo (Sam?).

      She took one of our pro-indy badges (can’t remember which one) but the sergeant with her declined our offer, saying, with a smile, “I only accept badges from the queen.”

      8=)

    174. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose (11.32) –

      How very dare you!

      It’s true that I’m ‘armless enough, but are you suggesting that I’ve been legless since Sept 19th 2014? (hic)

      Never mind – I won’t get on your back about it because (hic) you’ve reminded me of a favourite song, which I now offer to share, even though you deserve nothing!

      Stone Roses, ‘Fools Gold’, (Live, Glasgow, 2013)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M233V0RaUrU

    175. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Which reminds me…

      Everybody seems to have forgotten about the two BBC bias demo’s this year – at the tail end of March and after the ‘All Under One Banner’ march from Kelvingrove to Glasgow Green, a wee while ago.

      Neither were well supported, although Yew Tube performed live at the March one and the second one was hit by wind and rain.

    176. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Yew Tube = Yew Choob!

    177. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      ‘I only accept badges from the Queen.’

      🙂

      Soo-perb.

      Dare we surmise that Paula Rose wasn’t present that day?

    178. Paula Rose says:

      Oh gosh – you boys do make me blush!

    179. michael diamond says:

      Agree with frogesque, personally i’d like to see a bank established in scotland that backs independence. Then i could switch my account to it , like anyone backing indy.

    180. michael diamond says:

      Wonder if michael fagin accepted a badge from maj



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