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Wings Over Scotland

Looking for a way in

Posted on October 31, 2014 by

It’s been impossible to know where to start today. Last night hundreds of angry protestors picketed a £200-a-seat banquet in Glasgow at which Scottish Labour “showcase[d] the party in front of donors and business figures” in a desperate bid to raise cash for the branch office (which survives on handouts from the UK party), and at which deputy leader Anas Sarwar, less than 48 hours after vowing he’d remain in his position, announced that he’d step down after all.


Despite being the deputy, Sarwar wasn’t stepping down to contest the leadership, but rather to smooth the path of Jim Murphy. Murphy is London’s preferred candidate, but even Labour aren’t dim enough to want to run Holyrood with London-based MPs in BOTH of the leadership roles, so Sarwar pulled a swift U-turn to offer a potential “dream ticket” of Murphy and Kezia Dugdale, a Lothians list MSP who this week told the Edinburgh Evening News that she intends to leave politics within 10 years.

(Then again, in 2011 Jim Murphy told Labour List he wouldn’t consider running for Scottish leader for “maybe 20 years” and he’s only waited three, so who knows?)

But there’s so much more going on.

Firstly, there’s poor hapless Margaret Curran. Widely regarded as the person who stuck the long knife into the back of outgoing leader Johann Lamont, she seems unlikely to be rewarded. Several commentators have speculated that Anas Sarwar’s price for suddenly changing his mind will have been the promise of Curran’s job as shadow Scottish Secretary, with Curran abruptly but tidily shunted into the dead-end international-development spokesman job currently occupied by… Jim Murphy.

(When Murphy was moved there in a 2013 reshuffle it was seen as a demotion, largely because international development is a brief where Labour and Tory policy differs even less than in other areas, and therefore offers little chance for a prospective minister to make an impact.)

All of this assumes Murphy will win, of course, an outcome this site remains sceptical about. But there are all manner of potential pitfalls along that path too, which Murphy attempted to skate around in an evasive and flustered performance on last night’s Scotland Tonight in which he avoided giving any direct answers.

Under Labour rules the Scottish leader has to occupy some sort of parliamentary seat, whether it’s in Holyrood, Westminster or Brussels. Murphy has pledged that he’ll stand for Holyrood in 2016 or sooner, but told Scotland Tonight that Labour would not force an early by-election by having a current MSP step aside.

(The alert Lallands Peat Worrier pointed out yesterday that to do so would cause the lucky “volunteer” to lose out on tens of thousands of pounds in resettlement grants.)

Adhering to that pledge will mean that Murphy HAS to run for Westminster in 2015 – if he doesn’t, he won’t be eligible for the post of Scottish Labour leader. So he’ll have to stand for election on the premise that he’ll quit just a year later. (He COULD occupy seats in both parliaments simultaneously, as Alex Salmond and others have done, but he explicitly told Scotland Tonight that he was “giving up” Westminster.)

His East Renfrewshire seat ought in theory to be safe behind a 10,000 majority, but a mischievous campaign of tactical voting combined with the inherent disrespect to the electorate of the one-year plan might yet bring about an upset.

Which brings us neatly to the elephant in the room – yesterday’s opinion polls. Two full-sample surveys, from Ipsos MORI and YouGov, both gave the SNP huge leads in Westminster voting intentions. Averaged out they put the Nats on around 47% of the vote to Labour’s 25%, a staggering movement of 40 points in just a few months and the sort of numbers that make the UK’s broken First Past The Post electoral system work FOR the Nats rather than against them, turning a shift into a possible landslide.

Indeed, uniform-swing projections by the two pollsters predicted Labour holding onto just four or 10 (respectively) of their 40 Westminster constituencies, and in those circumstances talk of ANY Labour seat as “safe” seems almost absurd. So even if Murphy wins the leadership contest, it’s not inconceivable that he could be booted out by voters in May, and then have to force some poor sap of an MSP to throw away a small fortune and fall on their sword so that Murphy can run for their seat.

Which could of course, for the same reasons as we’ve been detailing in the previous paragraphs, lead to another embarrassing defeat. Especially as in a by-election the SNP could throw the full force of all their 84,000 members at it.

To have willingly set itself up for such a potentially catastrophic slapstick sequence of humiliations, then, it can only be concluded that Labour really REALLY wants Murphy to run the Scottish branch, and that it’s absolutely desperate not to have one of its own MSPs in charge. It’s hardly the sort of resounding demonstration of faith in the Holyrood D-team that’s likely to inspire the confidence of the electorate.

This circus won’t be leaving town for some time yet.

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    1. 31 10 14 14:41

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      Freefalling? | A Greater Stage

    341 to “Looking for a way in”

    1. Brotyboy says:

      Deep joy squared.

    2. aitchbee says:

      Is there anyone in Labour with any strategic awareness and the ability to think things through to their logical conclusion? The evidence so far suggests not.

    3. Norma says:

      Love it, love it love it!

    4. Kenny says:

      Surely Murphy doesn’t have to win an election. Can’t a list MSP just step aside and have Labour appoint him as the replacement? Sure, it would cost that person their resettlement money (what an absurd term for “failure reward”), but the Labour Family (TM) can surely afford to put that person into some other role or find a friendly employer to stick them on a board on the promise that they’ll get back on the list in 2016?

    5. Jim Thomson says:

      Oh what a tangled web they’ve woven for themselves. Hell mend them all.

    6. RandomSwitch says:

      Jim’s “Bluebeard” Cupboard is just chock-a-block with right wing corpses of his horrendous reactionary life path.
      Today it’s learning of the Henry Jackson Society, a warmongering think tank.
      Trident, Iraq, Tuition Fees; perfidious achievements by our Imperial Master’s appointed Provincial Governor.

      Popcorn sales must be going through the roof!

    7. Sandy says:

      Rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic doesnt begin to describe the chaos.

    8. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Can’t a list MSP just step aside and have Labour appoint him as the replacement?”

      No. If a list MSP steps aside they’re replaced by the next one on their party’s EXISTING list. If you want to parachute someone in, the only way to trigger a by-election is to have a constituency MSP stand down.

    9. Jim Thomson says:

      2nd attempt …
      Oh what a tangled web they’ve woven for themselves. Hell mend them all.

    10. Susan says:

      The Labour Party may already have some dirt on one of their current MSPs to force him/her to step down before the 2016 Scottish elections in order for Slim Jim to step in and win the seat. 🙂

    11. fred blogger says:

      during the indyref campaign labour showed their true colours to the everyone in the UK.
      they abandon the people to get power @ any costs.
      now they pay the price for their seen by all betrayal.
      they got caught up in the heat of the no campaign, and expected business as usual, post indyref.

      just because some were browbeaten they thought that the no vote would be so devastating that we would go back into our boxes, but once the people were awakened the box had vanished.
      they openly and gleefully expressed the SNP had been routed, that the dream of indyscot was over, and that we should go back to being led once more.
      their plan has spectacularly backfired.
      the campaign for social justice continues, stronger than ever.
      we shattered stereotyped image of scotland and the scottish people we have rediscovered our voices.
      support for the 3 main indyscot parties is now over 60% of the electorate.
      some defeat, eh, people.

    12. Martin Wood says:

      couple that with the fact that 1 MP’s votes = 609 members votes = 12915 affiliates votes….the MP’s votes should swamp the members interests (New Statesman : 2010)
      Showing the real worth of democracy in Labour

    13. Craig P says:

      The way the list works in Holyrood is that the next name on the list from the 2011 election automatically gets the gig, unless they refuse it, in which case it goes to the next again name.

      Murphy’s name is not on any lists from 2011, so he can’t be parachuted in to Holyrood. It has to be a by election.

    14. 50FTQueeny says:

      At the end of reading that, the first thing that came into my head was the godawful tune ‘Things can only get better’. Just remember folks D:Ream = C:Rap

    15. Roberto Esquierdo says:

      Mr Murphy is trying to jump into the life raft(Holyrood)
      He hates Milliband after being demoted and Milliband hates him. Murphy knows it is only a matter of time until Scotland is independent and he also knows there is not enough room in the life raft for his forty Labour friends at Westminster. Murphy is playing a flanker.

    16. ScottB says:

      As funny as it is, it does open the door for whoever takes over as leader to make minor gains in the polls on which the MSM can base their “Labour makes a comeback”-esque blanket coverage in the lead up to the GE.

    17. Helena Brown says:

      Didn’t think it could get any better but it has.

    18. gerry parker says:

      We’ll need to work doubly hard on those 4 seats they would hope to retain than.

    19. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Who will do FMQ’s?

      Labour’s gene pool in Holyrood is a bit shallow.

      Maybe they could all draw straws every week for it?

    20. BrianW says:

      Mwahh ha ha ha. Labour in UTTER TURMOIL. The gift that keeps on giving.

    21. Pads says:

      Anyone else reminded of Frank Dobson being forced to stand for Mayor of London?

    22. heedtracker says:

      When they got back in last millenium I was really pleased but they’ve been catastrophic in Scotland, England and around the world. Unless ofcourse you’re a rich Tory. Thats what’s so bizarre about them all and an absurd stooge like Murphy in particular.

      They had their day, its over, thanks for nothing, goodbye, unless of course you’re rich tories, purring queen, super rich City shysters, PFI owners, Lords of the Realm, UKOK BBC liggers etc. You get in, get your stash, get the fuck out.

    23. Aidan says:

      Feeling happy today!

    24. Frost says:

      Malcolm Chisholm is due to step down from my constituency in 2016. Can’t really see Murphy taking the risk to try and win Edinburgh North and Leith though and I doubt Chisholm would want to step aside for Murphy either.

    25. Robin Ross says:

      Bugger (the Panda) says:
      31 October, 2014 at 1:03 pm
      Who will do FMQ’s?

      Labour’s gene pool in Holyrood is a bit shallow.

      Maybe they could all draw straws every week for it?

      So that the loser has to be the patsy I presume.

    26. Ramona says:

      Wow the momentum is certainly moving alone nicely, I’m loving it. Who knew politics could be so enjoyable. I’m even a wee bit glad we didn’t win, just to see all these corrupt politicians being shown up for what they are. Happy Happy Days!

    27. turnbull drier says:

      couple that with the fact that 1 MP’s votes = 609 members votes = 12915 affiliates votes….the MP’s votes should swamp the members interests (New Statesman : 2010)
      Showing the real worth of democracy in Labour

      Will it, therefore, be possible to get an accurate number of Labour members from this ballot??

    28. Busy-Bee says:

      If they had a brain to share between them they’d be dangerous LOL 😉

    29. Steve B says:

      The resettlement grant system is similar in Westminster, which means that Murphy will lose out financially if he voluntarily gives up his seat either for the 2015 election or afterwards in 2016.

      He’ll also lose out anyway because Holyrood salaries are less than WM’s and I’d assume (although I don’t know) that the expense allowances are less as well.

      Which maybe accounts for his reluctance to stand earlier in the week.

      But as Stu said, the fun is just beginning! I’d personally see it as a golden opportunity to get out there campaigning as it’s an open door to get more support for whatever Yes party or group you happen to support.

    30. James says:

      Martin – don’t bank on Murphy getting full MP backing. There’s a faction of at least a dozen ‘Anyone But Jim’ MPs (Davidson among them) who baulk at having the Blairite, right wing, control freak in charge! That’s one of hilarious sub-plots. And even if Murphy secured increased SLAB autonomy it will NOT be enjoyed or exercised democratically across Labour in Scotland…it’ll all be for Murphy and he will crucify anyone on his own side on doesn’t suck up his rhetoric. And Davidson and co know it 😉

    31. Stoker says:

      How to win friends and influence people, the Labour way, eh!

    32. Martin H says:

      I reckon its a deep con. Maybe Murphy doesn’t even know it!?
      If and when he loses, it will allow Labour in Scotland to say they are ‘renewed’ after telling Westminster where to go.

      BBC is on full coaching mode to influence outcomes and maximise public awareness of the Labour party rebirth. I would not be surprised if this was coordinated from the top. The BBC have had three phone-ins a week asking ‘what does the labour party need to do to win you back?’ etc. where they have people phoning in saying how they are labour supporters but need labour to assert itself in Scotland etc.
      Imagine if the SNP had suffered a crash of support like this due to utterly betraying its voters and wider population – would the BBC be running constant coverage asking people to explain what’s needed for them to ‘reconnect’ and encouraging them to meet those demands?

      This technique has become known as the ‘masochism strategy’ (as followed by Blair after the Iraq war and discussed openly by their spin doctors at the time – amazingly this allowed them to win another term!!) that projects a feeling of ownership to their lost supporters in the process of contrition and renewal. To work it needs to achieve a prominence in people’s consciousness and then allow them to feel invested in the manufactured turnaround.
      This is some of the most insidious work the BBC have done yet – or am I just paranoid?

      Worth listening to Kaye this morning who was gently coaching Jenny Marra through calls, prompting her to say the right things even when it wasn’t coming naturally – “you need to say what you’ve done wrong before people will reconnect with you… etc”. Mental – BBC leading the labour party politicians through the PR like they are their spin doctors.

    33. J.B. Turner says:

      Delirium on stilts. Dabs eyes. How much fun can one man endure? Stop it! I beseech you! To be fair, Jim Murphy looked so ill at ease on STV I was convinced he would break into a rendition of ‘Send in the Clowns’ just to break the tension. Never make this end . . . please God!

    34. Macart says:

      The Benny Hill school of politics writ large by Labour. 🙂

    35. saporian says:

      Looks pretty obvious that the solution is for Murphy to swap his WM seat with Ken McIntosh the MSP for Eastwood, who would then stand for WM in 2015 with Murphy standing at the by election for HR on the same day. Could be double catastrophic for Labour :).

    36. Gareth Nicol says:

      Reads like a script from the “Thick of it” unbelievale nonsense.

    37. Rod Robertson says:

      As someone heavily involved in Murphy’s Eastwood redoubt ,we are planning an onslaught like no other.
      We are way down the list of “target seats” however in Referendum YES took almost 37% of the vote making this a possible 3 way marginal.
      With a fair wind ,suitable funding ,and a good campaign we could unseat this unscrupulous piece of expense troughing right wing neo conservative Red Tory parasite.

    38. muttley79 says:

      Is Murphy really a member of the Henry Jackson Society?

    39. Mosstrooper says:

      Consider the situation of the hapless Depute leader of Labour (Scotland branch) if Jim Murphy does become their leader.

      All the brickbats, all the responsibility, being in the spotlight, having to do FMQ every week, no power to change anything, knowing that skelator was leaning over your shoulder all the time and no money for the post, no kudos for any “ahem” ideas but all the pressure.

      Sounds like a great job.

    40. MajorBloodnok says:

      @turnbull drier says: Will it, therefore, be possible to get an accurate number of Labour members from this ballot??

      Affiliated union members get to vote and if they are also Labour party members they get to vote that way too (I had that confirmed officially), so calculations could be tricky.

    41. muttley79 says:


      Most will vote for Neil Findlay I imagine.

    42. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Rod Robertson

      Don’t hold back there Rod!, lol….

      One of the first questions a ‘serious’ MSM journalist should be asking Murphy : “Do you support the introduction of tuition fees in Scotland?”

    43. Free Scotland says:

      Quotation from the Edinburgh Evening News:

      Lothians list MSP Kezia Dugdale admitted she didn’t have the credentials to replace Johann Lamont, but said she would run for the position of deputy if it became available.

      Hold on, Kezia. Do you really think anyone needs credentials to replace Johann Lamont?

    44. Futureproof says:

      Big Jim’s seat is safe. He’s got a big majority in a county with the fifth highest No vote in the referendum. The Conservatives are arguably the second party in the area (although the SNP won the list vote in 2011). It would take a hige effort on the Yes campaign’s part, and the Greens would have to campaign for the SNP candidate, and we’d need to e lucky too. I think we’re stuck with big Jim until indpendence day unfortunately, but we’ll give it a good go.

    45. paul gerard mccormack says:

      Watching Death Head (Dorf) last night, I think he is a deeply psychologically-flawed man to the point of being psychotic. He is personally, a complete phoney. One only has to notice his body language, the insincere touching and smiling and he would make a classic split janus-faced Nixon-type image with that arched eyebrow. (I’ll get on to it). It’s actually worrying that such a person can get so far. In any other organisation he’d have had his jotters well by now. Frightening.

    46. HandandShrimp says:

      I am going to have to get an industrial supply of popcorn in because Labour seems to be determined to entertain.

      I would be an utter lying git if I were to pretend I am not enjoying this a teeny bit. To see Eggbox become leader would just be icing on the cake.

    47. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      @Free Scotland.

      You’re right. Anyone with a pulse would surely have the credentials.

      Keiza want’s to leave politics in ten years time? She may be leaving in 2016.

    48. geeo says:

      I have share in a popcorn making company that i bought when Rangers went bust, now this happens…

      Unionism, the gift that keeps on giving !!

    49. ronald alexander mcdonald says:


      We’d get him out if we all vote tory!

    50. desimond says:

      Jim is walking about like hes a shoe-in. Which he may well be.


      Labours assumption is exactly how they ended up in this quagmire( giggidy!. Jim is now in a corner holding a paint brush and wondering “If i angle the ladder against the wall can I then jump for that doorway over there?”.

      Sadly like someone over in Lallands, I fear if the establishment need an easy seat opened up then they will get it opened up one way or another.

      Shame for wee Megs though(JOKE), although Im sure a Ladyship of The House of Easter awaits down the line. In a recent shadow cabinet photo she was barely visible at the back,it now looks like shes going to be on our screens talking ebola shyte( a bowl of…)

    51. Mealer says:

      What would happen if a Labour list MSP resigned and all the rest of the people on the Labour list refused to fill the position? Would they go to another party’s list?

    52. Training Day says:

      I’m worried that the appropriate degree of respect is not being afforded ‘First name Jim’ on this thread: (taken from the Rev’s twitter)

      Health warning: if you thought James Cook and Brian Taylor loved Murphy, you ain’t seen nuthin’ yet..

    53. Steve B says:

      @MajorBloodnok @turnbull drier

      But I think union members and constituency members vote in different sections of the electoral college so it may be possible to break down the constituency member numbers?

    54. MajorBloodnok says:

      “Do you have the credentials?”

      “No, it’s just the way I’m standing.”

    55. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      couple that with the fact that 1 MP’s votes = 609 members votes = 12915 affiliates votes….the MP’s votes should swamp the members interests (New Statesman : 2010)

      Where are you finding that quote?

    56. geeo says:

      As far as Murphy goes, the ‘shock’ poll reckons Murphy would be kicked out if accurate.

      Murphy suddenly announces he is interested a day or so after the poll result, which begs the obvious question, was he aware of the poll result before release and decided to bail WM before he was thrown out ?

      Murphy’s ‘grand tour’ put him in the media spotlight, is it possible Jim Murphy has a ‘looking after number one’ plan ?

      Surely not !!!!?????????

      This weekend i shall mostly be eating….butterkist !

    57. Fourth time lucky says:

      Million-Pound Murphy has previous when it comes to his expenses. How did he fund his Hundred Days? And was he claiming expenses at the same time for his day job at Westminster while taking a three-month sabbatical?

    58. Bob Sinclair says:

      I am going to say the unthinkable in relation to Murphy’s seat, so in advance, please forgive me because it is somewhat unpalatable.

      Ok, that said, here we go. If the best placed yes party is running a distant third in his constituency then just maybe we should encourage the voters to ‘go back to their roots’ and vote the way they did before Murphy popped up. The enemy of my enemy and all that. After all, what they have at the moment is a thinly disguised Tory.

    59. HandandShrimp says:

      I think the biggest surprise regarding Murphy is that I would have laid odds on him being after Ed’s job should Ed have to fall on his sword. The competition now that Blair Brown and Darling et al are yesterday’s men is not stiff.

    60. Robert McDonald says:

      Do you think that we’ll see the figures for the voting after the college elects it’s new leader and that we will inadvertently get the data on the numbers of “ordinary” members or will they be obscured by the guff of block votes?

    61. Steve B says:

      Actually isn’t there a paradox here – the less consituency members there are, the greater the relative value of each member’s vote?

      Ok maths isn’t my strong point 🙂

    62. DiscoDave says:

      Another option for Jimbo to get in:

      If another party forced a by-election by persuading their constituency MSP to stand down before 2015 it would open the door and there’s no conceivable way Labour wouldn’t field Murphy as the candidate.

      But I’m not suggesting LD’s or Tories….

      Imagine if Salmond called a snap by-election in his own constituency to allow him to stand for Westminster, possibly in a swap deal for Eilidh Whiteford but tbh Salmond could pick whatever seat he wanted and probably win looking at last night’s polls.

      Labour would then have to field Murphy in Aberdeenshire East where they won 8% of the vote in 2011 against Salmond’s 64%.

      Would that not be the most delicious final-bow in the great man’s Holyrood career?

    63. desimond says:


      Regardless of anyones ability, no Scot will get a leadership post at any of the main UK parties within the next 10-15 years at least, although I suspect much longer.

    64. tombee says:

      The million pound egg man. That’s a cracker.

    65. muttley79 says:

      I am very relieved that I do not live in Murphy’s constituency. I could never vote Tory regardless of the circumstances. Their policies are despicable and inhumane. I just could not vote for them.

    66. desimond says:

      The STUC disagree with Labour shockeroonie

      In a submission to the Smith Commission on devolution, the STUC said there should be full devolution of income tax and many welfare benefits.

    67. Clootie says:

      Murphy is sleekit and he is only interested in himself.

      He will adopt Blairism, He will vote for nukes, He will stand for Labour leader in Scotland.He will do anything to promote and secure self interest.
      Any Labour politician. member or trade union who vote for him in preference to the other two candidates will contribute to the decline in the social standards in Scotland.

      I may disagree with the political solution pushed by the MSP’s standing but at least the other contenders are interested in the well being of their fellow Scots FIRST.

    68. Stoker says:

      Fifi la Dug and Skeletor – now there’s a double act.

      Haud it and Dodd it hiv no goat ah look in.

      A bit like Slabber, eh!

    69. gerry parker says:

      @ Rod.

      “unscrupulous piece of expense troughing right wing neo conservative Red Tory parasite.”

      You lucky bastards, all we’ve got here Rod is a useless tub o lard.


    70. wingman 2020 says:

      @Martin H

      No, you are not paranoid. The MSM are still in full ‘independence denial strategy’… The establishment are still in a panic. The anti-independence committee at Westminster has not been disbanded yet.

    71. Alt Clut says:

      Is it true that because SLAB has little rank and file spport left that a lot of their door to door work is now done by the Orange Order ? If it is, much as such vermin might morally deserve one another, doesn’t this create another problem for Mr. Murphy ?

    72. desimond says:

      (Saturday. phone rings)


      Anas, its London HQ, listen, Jolas gone, youre front and centre. We need you to play up the Labour Family card. Scottish Labour family, London Labour family, Family Family Family, you got that?

      Got it!

      (5 days Later)
      (phone rings)


      Anas, youre adopted.

    73. wingman 2020 says:

      Does anyone really think theres a chance of an FM in Scotland who supports Trident? Or aggressive foreign policy? I find it hard to stomach.

    74. Free Scotland says:

      Is it true that Murphy made a contribution to a Glasgow food bank last night? You can be sure he’ll claim it on his expenses under “miscellaneous” or maybe even “PR stunt.” Patronising freak!

    75. Kenzie says:

      Let’s not get too carried away with what might or might not happen come 2015/2016. LPW has a cautionary tale from Massie (yes, I know, I know). We must not lose sight of what we want and we must, at all costs, beware of possible pitfalls. If the Indyref taught us nothing else, it is that the Establishment fights dirty.

    76. Brian says:

      Martin H : excellent piece. And I thought it was just me. Thanks for demonstrating articulately that it wasn’t (just me).
      ps The propaganda does get to you after a while. You’ve got to be on your guard at all times. Thank God for Wings… and Bella and and and.

    77. manandboy says:

      Listened to a bit of 5 Live daily with Peter Allen this morning in the car. On the subject of the support for SNP & Greens and then on Labour in Scotland, it was obvious that Peter Allen himself knows nothing about what has been happening in Scotland. He just couldn’t understand why Labour should be having such a reversal in fortunes north of the border nor why there should be such a surge in membership for the Indy parties.
      A Labour guy came on, followed by a Tory and neither of them made Peter Allen any the wiser, choosing instead to put their own distorted spin on things.
      It wasn’t until a punter came on that anything like the truth began to be told with Allen retaining a scepticism about Scottish Politics as if to say ‘nothing important can possibly be happening in politics in Scotland’.

      The avalanche has left the mountain top, but the English down below are blissfully unaware of it.

      Maybe with 40 or so SNP MP’s sitting in Westminster they might then hear the roar.
      It can’t come soon enough.

    78. Susan says:

      I have just learned that Kezia Dugdale wanted to work for the SNP before she got a job with the Labour Party, no need to say she did not get the job with the SNP. 🙂

    79. Capella says:

      @ Martin H Good thinking! I’m glad someone is picking up on the BBC sly support.
      Re Labour membership. Better Nation calculated it through the details from their 2010 leadership election which was posted on their website which..
      “shows the first preference votes cast for each candidate from each CLP, the total votes cast within each CLP and the total number of ballot papers distributed to each CLP. Now, assuming Labour are democratic (and the electoral college system makes that a debatable point) then they will send a ballot paper to EVERY member in each CLP. Which means from the information given, you can work out how many members there are in each CLP… and how many there are in total.”
      See the table here:
      Given that some people have two votes, the 13,135 figure in 2010 must have been a maximum. They will certainly have lost members sinc then.

    80. Albaman says:

      Fast moving eh, so now most folk 60%+ would be happy for a further independence vote within the next 10 years, wonder what tomorrow will bring!!.

    81. galamcennalath says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      at 2:00
      “Where are you finding that quote?”

      This quotes the figures but applied to the UK leader election …

    82. Capella says:

      @ Steve B 2:12
      pedant alert!
      It should be fewer – the fewer constituency members there are…..
      Use “less” for a quantity of something which isn’t broken up into individual units and “fewer” for when there are individual items.
      For example, if I have less money than you I will have fewer pennies.

    83. YESGUY says:

      Superb Stu.

      What a tonic for the weekend.

      Can i also thank those wonderful folk for demonstrating outside the Hotel in Glasgow. Watched on the live feed and was so proud of you all. You are the driving force of Scotland and it will not waver with you guys with us.

      Oustanding Wingers and all.

    84. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      I think one of the most intriguing questions is..

      Did Ed Miliband have advance warning of any of the two polls and didn’t tell Murphy?

      Because if he did the Eggman has been stitched up good and proper by wee Ed Miliband and it may be the first case I can think of where Ed actually managed to get one over on his rivals. Make no mistake, Miliband demoted Murphy for a reason and Murphy’s leadership ambitions for Ed’s job were well known.

      Just think, if Murphy had only waited another day he would have seen the trap coming and it’s not as if he was keen to do the job anyway since he waited so long to stand. 😀

    85. Martin Wood says:

      We could be getting a bit over-excited by all this ( I know I am ) just read the blog on Peat Worrier and he makes an excellent argument for keeping the heed over the “surge”.

      We could end up heading for a big fall (aka 2010 )

    86. Dubbieside says:

      After the publication of the polls its time that the Yes alliance and the SNP meet up to sort out a strategy to ensure the maximum return from these polls.

      Let Sheridan and Fox contest the two Glasgow seats Labour would retain, Sillars to take on Brown in Kirkcaldy, and the independent councilor who support Yes on Shetland to take on Carmicheal. The Greens to take on Darling and the lone tory and the SNP to contest the rest of the seats.

      The other point that is still missing from these projections, just who is going to canvas and work for Labour in Scotland in 2015. All the people they bussed up for the referendum will be too busy firefighting down south.

    87. SquareHaggis says:

      Loads going on. Not half!

      Several reports today talking in “ED must go” tones.

      Maybe Murphy is after his job?

      Is this possible?

      Windae put it past him..

    88. Grouse Beater says:

      Macart: The Benny Hill school of politics writ large by Labour.

      That quip brightened up my day, Macart! Thanks.

    89. HandandShrimp says:


      I agree that we should rein in over-optimistic expectations. They have a purpose at the moment in that between now and Nov 30 Labour have to consider how far they are going to go on devolution. Keeping their attention is important. However, beyond then we should be more circumspect, work hard and party like mad if we hit 30 seats.

    90. Ken500 says:

      Weasel Fall Guy. Did he go or was he pushed. Detested North and South of the border.

    91. Willie Galbraith says:

      Martin Wood says:
      31 October, 2014 at 12:59 pm
      couple that with the fact that 1 MP’s votes = 609 members votes = 12915 affiliates votes….the MP’s votes should swamp the members interests (New Statesman : 2010)
      Showing the real worth of democracy in Labour

      Well put Martin…… I can only add that this would be the best thing that could happen.
      Then the level of Westminster controll would be out for all to see and almost guarantee the remaining 4 seats are in real jeopardy.

    92. AuldA says:

      A good article (in French, but I’m sure Google translation can help) explaining why the UK must pay this circa 2b£ extra contribution to the EU.

    93. AuldA says:

      O/T again:


      Interesting. ‘Less’ is for mass nouns, then, and ‘fewer’ for ordinary ones.
      What about more?
      BTW, in which cases you use ‘farther’ and in which case ‘further’?

    94. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      “Can i also thank those wonderful folk for demonstrating outside the Hotel in Glasgow. Watched on the live feed and was so proud of you all. You are the driving force of Scotland and it will not waver with you guys with us.

      Oustanding Wingers and all.”

      Agree 100% Outstanding work from Wings regulars and all those who took part. The wonderful work for food banks and help for the vulnerable must continue.

      All those in Yes party branches up and down scotland are getting involved as those who aren’t already doing so are being asked to organise events and charity drives just like this.

    95. Eddien says:

      Great thinking Stu,
      How can Labour expect to run a country when they cannot run themselves??

    96. Robert Louis says:

      Democracy reborn,

      regarding the MSM asking about tuition fees, the typical Labour response has been one of pure deception. This was used by Lamont and others within Labour. If asked will you keep free tuition fees in Scotland, the response is worded like this;

      ‘I have always been, and still am opposed to ANY kind of upfront tuition fees in Scotland.’.

      Note the use of that word ‘upfront’, it is ALWAYS used in answers by Labour on this question in Scotland. You see, even the current policy for charging tuition fees in England is NOT ‘upfront’, as the fees are covered by a loan. Thus Labour regularly make a commitment which is utterly meaningless, and they know it.

      Not one journalist has EVER picked up on this chicanery by Labour.

      Just one more example of the utter deception from Labour which means people no longer vote for them.

    97. Marie clark says:

      Help! Can anybody help an auld wumman oot here?

      Noo let’s see if I’ve got this right. Lamentable resigned moanin that they are a branch office and London interfere and want tae run everything. Right so far? Then the cadaver says he’ll stand as branch secretary, and noo Sarwar has stood doon tae make way for Dugdale to be deputy dawg and take a’ the shit at Holyrood.A’ arranged frae London. Is that no where I came in? Is that no whit caused a’ the bother in the first place?

      Anybody. Helena, Ronnie frae yir shed? I dinnae think I was that near my dotage.

      It’s a’ guid fun though.

    98. a2 says:

      Where’s the bit that says the Scottish ‘leader’ has to be an elected member? Is that a Holyrood thing or a Labour party rule (which they could change)?

      Also as Scottish Labour is not a separate organisation what’s the actual position of Leader’s standing in the party as a whole? and how does that relate to any Holyrood rules?

      Also what’s the scenario if an list MSP stands down and none of the rest of the existing list contenders want to take the post (Which could be seen as (or at least argued) legit if they have made career choices based on not getting into parliament last time)?

    99. Jack Murphy says:

      Ian Gray’s Subway Lament at 3:12pm:–
      ” Make no mistake, Miliband demoted Murphy for a reason and Murphy’s leadership ambitions for Ed’s job were well known.”

      Exactly–Murphy was holding a VERY senior post in Ed’s Cabinet—Shadow Secretary of State for Defence.
      Last year Ed demoted him well down the table to Shadow Secretary of State for International Development.
      Next reshuffle—-oot the door?
      His days were numbered.
      Send him to Scotland!!

    100. manandboy says:

      If only we could find Jim Murphy’s egg-man.

    101. a2 says:

      Thanks to The BBC et all he has got the card to blackmail the Slab members. “If you don’t vote for me now, we really will be a laughing stock” (and he’ll probably be right). I reckon they’ll back him ‘for the good of the party’.

    102. Valerie says:

      Two things, Skeletor s constituency will be hard to topple. Full of wealthy, and made good young people in the new housing estates. House prices extortionate.

      Something really funny on FB, was our FM opening up a new Lidl store, warm words, followed by, ‘great prices, and its not Asda’

      It was in the Daily Rancid if some clever Winger can archive and post cos it’s very funny.

    103. Gary says:

      All my questions from the referendum answered. Yes, they ARE that stupid. NO, they had no plan. NO, Labour in London had no idea where Scotland was, and still don’t. And NO, they have NOT learned anything.

    104. Viking Girl says:

      I was shocked when you said that Anas Sarwar didn’t give any direct answers on last night’s Scotland Tonight! Only kidding! I love the sound of the whirring of the Windmills of His Mind whenever he tries to avoid answering a question: which is every time he’s asked one.
      The problem with Labour is, that since the eighties, there’s been a gradual take over by the wrong people: and now it’s the wrong people that are running it.
      The big beast stood in front of the nation on behalf of the Better Together campaign and offered anything to stop us going independent, something I believe he was tricked into doing, and within a month his party is on the verge of extinction. Clever manipulation by the rest of Better Together. Labour deserves to collapse and I’ll be cheering when it does. They have no credibility left.

    105. MajorBloodnok says:

      Regarding eggmen I’ve always considered that ‘quiche’ was just the Edinburgh spelling and pronunciation for ‘keech’.

    106. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Robert Louis

      Cheers Robert, wasn’t aware that was Scottish Labour’s disingenuous response to the tuition fees question.

      I suppose the question should be re-phrased : “Do you agree with the introduction of tuition fees in any shape or form – including upfront or deferred payment?”

    107. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      @Martin Wood

      “We could be getting a bit over-excited by all this ( I know I am ) just read the blog on Peat Worrier and he makes an excellent argument for keeping the heed over the “surge”.”

      It’s a fair point martin but keep in mind this is two polls not one and they simply cannot be spun as anything other than an utter disaster for Labour. The meltdown in the Londond Labour branch office right now is very real indeed. The leaders of the SNP and the Yes parties are keeping it to the obvious and uncontestable which is relaying the polling findings and pointing out just how much chaos there is in scotish Labour right now.

      We aren’t saying anything has been won yet because we know it hasn’t. We all know the sheer size of the majorities means we will have to work extremely hard to overturn any of them which is the message that has been relayed to the Yes party members up and down scotland.

      What all this does do is, for right now give an extremely welcome boost to keep support and enthusiasm up for all the new members of the Yes parties. Which is precisely what we need. We have to keep everyone keen for another 6 months till the actual election by which time we will have had plenty of polling to base a realistic assessment on and the actual campaigning will be in full swing with as many of those new members taking part as we can possibly manage.

      There is nothing we can do about the media’s coverage of current events which doesn’t just include the bias in favour of the unionist parties but also when sensational polls like this appear which cannot be spun.

      Speaking of which those polls are even more jawdropping than they first appeared. Which is reason enough to give them plenty caution on our side but will also put the fear of god into the London office branch.

      May2015 ?@May2015NS 1h

      We’re covering this on @LBC at 4.50: #Labour would only win 1 seat under uniform swing, not 4.

      The main effect and focus of all the coverage thus far has been on Labour. We can’t change that, nor should we want to. Let Labour react to it as it is most definitely their problem.

    108. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Another contest, yet more ‘contenders’. 🙂

      Ardrossan Herald ?@ardrossanherald 8m

      .@KatyClarkMP considering running for Deputy Leader of @scottishlabour – … #labour

    109. boris says:

      In the event Murphy is appointed he will take the labour party away from the socialist ideal placing the party near enough in harmony with the Tory party. This would in effect move the SNP to the left of centre filling the vacant area abandoned by Murphy. Al that is then needed is to rename the SNP to the Scottish National & Labour Party SNLP and campaign accordingly.

    110. a2 says:


      If you look over on What scotland thinks, there was a poll result on attitudes to hosting trident if Scotland voted yes. I only noticed that last night but it was pretty worrying,mind boggling actually. Seems marginally more scots think trident is super than oppose it and 20% don’t know.

    111. Macart says:

      @Grouse Beater

      Here to help. 🙂

    112. seanair says:

      Away down the list of possibility I know, but how horrible for Margrit to be given the international development spokesman job. She would have to be dealing with “furrriners” and we know what she thinks about that.

    113. Graeme Doig says:

      A few wee ramblings.

      Got back from Glasgow demo late and decided to check out EBC 24 (Iknow, I know but Mrs D wary of the consequences of cancellation). They had a journalist and lawyer doing the paper review. They concluded that the demise of Labour in Scotland was primarily the result of the way Ed shafted David in the leadership contest.

      I let you all draw your own conclusions about the level of ignorance contained there.

      Mr Murphy (any semblance of respect in the title … spits!) displayed arrogance last night ,in the face of the demo, that can only come from someone defined as a sociopath.

      The only good thing was that he was almost lynched by the assembled masses and he knows it.

      It was great to meet up wi Ronnie, Ian B, Patrician, Cactus and other Wingers last night. Think we made our point boys. Nice work! 🙂

    114. Luigi says:

      Johann Lamont’s resignation grenade has been followed by two opinion poll flame throwers (set to max). Things are heating up nicely in the bunker.

    115. kalmar says:

      One of the more hilariously hypocritical bits, for me, is the way that Murphy claims this “process” that Labour is going through (which we can all see is more like a knife fight in a shark tank) is some sort of lofty democratic standard which “other parties” can’t hope to attain, with their “coronations” of leaders going unopposed etc.

    116. boris says:

      David Cameron’s Tory Party Flagship policy abandoned due to an abject failure to exercise due diligence by almost all concerned and there is a possibility of fraud. Sickening misuse of public funds.

      an application dated 7 August 2014 has been made by the Trustees to have the corporate entity Society Network Foundation Ltd struck off the Register of Companies. The controversial charity that received over £2.5m of lottery and government grants is to be wound up amid allegations that it misused funding and made inappropriate payments to its directors. The Society Foundation Network, which ran the Big Society Network, is being probed by the Charity Commission following several failed projects.

      The Network was also investigated by the National Audit Office over allegations that Government money was incorrectly allocated. The charity denies all the allegations. Yesterday, “The Independent” revealed that one project run by the organization had made a series of claims for nearly £1m of lottery funding that are now being disputed by other charitable organizations it referred to. The Charity Commission said that the trustees of the organization had contacted it to tell them that they planned to voluntarily wind it down.

    117. liz says:

      The BBC are beyond despicable.

      Remember when we were told that Quebec was the model used against indy ref but then it turned out it was also the model used to bring down Gough Whitlam in Australia cos he wanted them to go fully independent.

      Now as people have been saying they are encouraging the electorate to re connect with Lab thro ‘we will listen and learn’.

      Hopefully all the Yes parties work together to stop this from happening.

      Unlike Australia and Quebec at the time we now have the internet plus all the extra members of Yes parties, we will have to work our socks off to counteract their propaganda.

      It was mentioned on twitter that the BBC license fee might in future come from council tax which will be increased accordingly – folk on twitter not happy with that one.

      I’m in Murphy’s constituency and we have an up and running WfI group, we have discussed how to get rid of him at the next election.

      Difficult one as some folk wld vote con and others said couldn’t do that.

    118. @ muttley79

      It looks like Murphy was/is a member of the `Henry Jackson Society `

    119. John says:

      It might be a bit radical, but does Indy need to stand against branch leader Murphy?
      How about letting the blue Tories have a free run at him?
      Surely if we can pass the panda test against each of the unionist parties, the Indy parties have won.
      Might not be fair on the constituents, but could be worth it overall.

    120. Robert Peffers says:

      Now just wait a moment? This idea of some, (ahem!), poor MSP being forced to step down to vacate a seat for Murphy, is just asking for the,(ahem!), poor requested to step down MSP to have a Road to Damascus moment and convert to becoming a real Tory, Or, (whisper it), joining the SNP.

    121. JLT says:

      Lamont must be laughing up her sleeve. All those that once stood around her and mocked her …well …I bet they are all regretting it now. Terrible to say it, but kudos to JoLa for destroying the Scottish Labour party and ending any hopes of Labour winning the General Election.

      I’m sure there is a lesson in there somewhere for the Westminster parties when it comes to dealing with Scotland …but something tells me that in their arrogance, they will continue to ignore it…

    122. Gary45% says:

      I was going to say, Halloween the only night the labour party don’t seem out of place, but then again even Jason and Freddy would be sh%tt**g themselves seeing the monster bunch of Broon and Co.

    123. Capella says:

      @ AuldA
      Yes. If Labour has less support in the election they will win fewer seats!
      I hate to be pedantic but it’s one that bugs me. (doesn’t apply to more).
      and BTW I would never use “farther” – isn’t it a bit old fashioned?
      Further than that I won’t go.

    124. Robert Peffers says:

      @Susan says:31 October, 2014 at 12:59 pm

      “Labour Party may already have some dirt on one of their current MSPs to force him/her to step down before the 2016 Scottish elections in order for Slim Jim to step in and win the seat.”

      Should that not read, “As the Labour Party has already got lots of dirt on some of their current MSPs to force them to step down before the 2016 Scottish elections in order for Slim Jim to step in and win the seat”.

    125. boris says:

      I expect most of those who read my blog will be forming an opinion as to just who runs the UK. It is a worry since this is the guy what won it for Dave and Gordon Brown. He pulls the strings in Downing street, created and directed the activities of the, “dirty tricks department”. Any campaign for independence in the future will need to find a way to neuter Jeremy otherwise it will fail.

      The controversial merger of the defense giant BAE Systems with a foreign conglomerate has been described by one respected global affairs expert as the ‘biggest redrawing of global defenses since the Cold War’.

      The Prime Minister is said to be in favour of the move after coming under pressure from the Cabinet Secretary, Sir Jeremy Heywood. He has been advocating the merger to the PM and has had a series of meetings with BAE and Morgan Stanley, the American investment bank which is advising the firm and which is in line to get millions from its work on the deal.

    126. Capella says:

      @ Robert Louis
      “Not one journalist has EVER picked up on this chicanery”
      Nor do they challenge the smug Nick Clegg when he claims to have taken the lowest-paid out of tax, by raising the personal allowance. The fact is that millionaires also benefit from the higher personal allowance but in their case the pathetic amount is hardly worth noticing. It’s a scandal that anyone earning less than £10,000 a year should have been paying tax.

    127. Terry says:

      Owen jones just said his parents have just re-joined the Scottish labour party. Big whoop!

    128. Gary45% says:

      Manandboy asked to find The Egg man, I think we should ask Bitter Together who they hired for the stunt, as it will all come out in the end.
      You just have to look at his reaction when he was egged, he knew it was coming.

    129. frazer allan whyte says:

      I am confused – Murphy is quoted talking about ending squabbling etc “NORTH of the border”… is he secretly a little Englander or is he about to interfere with Faeroese? Icelandic? Norwegian? politics? Can somebody explain?

    130. Sinky says:

      The best description I have heard of Jim Murphy is that he is Unctuous meaning (of a person) excessively or ingratiatingly flattering; oily.

      synonyms: sycophantic, ingratiating, obsequious, fawning, servile, groveling, subservient, cringing, humble, hypocritical, insincere, gushing, effusive; More
      glib, smooth, slick, slippery, oily, greasy;
      smarmy, slimy

      (or of minerals) having a greasy or soapy feel.

    131. AuldA says:


      I’m not unlike you… I sometimes nitpick… in French!

    132. Graeme Doig says:


      ‘Unctuous’. Yep the only word necessary. Thanks for that.

    133. Annette says:

      “I think he is a deeply psychologically-flawed man to the point of being psychotic.”

      No, I think that is the wrong diagnosis. I believe he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

      Overwhelming need to be admired? Tick
      Delusions of grandeur? Tick
      Complete lack of empathy for others? Tick
      Snobbish and disdainful attitude? Tick
      Sense of entitlement? Tick
      Manipulative liar? Tick
      Exploitative of others? Tick

      This disorder is virtually incurable, because the person is unable to ever see that they even have a problem. They will always say the problem is with other people. The advice when you encounter such a person is: stay away from them as much as you can.

      There is a website by a layperson ( with this astute observation: “Even when very intelligent, narcissists can’t reason well.” I think this is what we are observing with Jim Murphy. His self-obsession gets in the way of any coherent thought. That’s how it is possible that at the very moment when he would need to convince people that he would respond to THEIR needs, he struts about on TV talking about how he would hire and fire whomever he liked.

    134. Kevin evans says:

      Yup agree totally – this whole episode and the way there manoeuvring everything to suit murphy says exactly how broken the UK has become.

    135. Andy-B says:

      Wouldn’t it be brilliant if the SNP could oust Murphy from his Westminster seat,prior to his Holyrood appointment, if indeed, he wins the race for manager, of the Scotland branch.

      Murphy a pro-Trident, anti- Palestine, Blairite, surely his stock must be toxic in Scotland, to the majority.

    136. Papadox says:

      The great and the good of Londinium/WESTMINSTER, AKA “the establishment”

      For decades we were conned into believing there was a Scottish Labour Party. Manipulated and controlled by the real establishment Labour Party and leaders in Londinium. We weren’t told that little nugget.

      Fiona Woolf resigns when she was caught out as a plant for the establishment by the establishment.

      Lady Butler Sloss resigns when she was caught out as a plant for the establishment by the establishment.

      Lordy Smith, who has a questionable past in bussiness. Another establishment plant?

      Who would want to be involved or part of this Scam. WESTMINSTER is rancid and decomposed a long time ago. Let’s hold our nose and leave ASAP.

      EBC helping the establishment to whitewash the estab
      lishments manipulation of democracy to its own ends. Aye the mother of Parliaments ????

    137. Graeme Doig says:

      So there you have it Jim. All the psych advice you need free, courtesy of Wings (tax payers expense spared for once).

      Now you can carry on as usual such is your kind.

    138. John Young says:

      Gary45% saysat 5:15 pm
      Manandboy asked to find The Egg man

      An independence supporter who admitted throwing eggs at MP Jim Murphy in Fife has been sentenced to 80 hours unpaid work on a community payback order.
      Stuart Mackenzie, 45, was at Mr Murphy’s 100 Towns in 100 Days tour in Kirkcaldy last week. does find a match but I did not pay for the full address
      Free Results for Stuart Mackenzie or S Mackenzie in Kirkcaldy
      1 Stuart R Mackenzie
      Age Guide: 45-49

    139. HandandShrimp says:

      Is not the desperation to get Murphy elected as Scottish leader so that Ed can get shot of him from Westminster? Just a thought 🙂

    140. Morag says:

      Remember when CameronB actually recognised the eggman before he was caught and knew his name was Stu? That was impressive, I thought.

      Cameron thought he was a ned, and unlikely to be a Yes activist. But of course if he was a paid plant, of course his brief would include claiming to support independence.

    141. handclapping says:

      Yours is another possibility, but whatever it is, that it will be for the benefit of Scotland will not be part of their thinking, thats for sure

    142. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      AuldA is French and leves in France. He is a supporter of Scottish independence and has joined the SNP.

      AuldA = Auld Alliance

    143. wingman 2020 says:

      Lets turn the whole power of Wings against Murphy. He supports Trident and war in Iraq / Syria. What better reason to actively campaign against him at every possibility. (Without giving him any publicity of course)

    144. wingman 2020 says:

      And for the Unionists on site
      Brìgh gach cluiche gu dheireadh.

    145. velofello says:

      @ Sinky: Odious fits too.

    146. Morag says:

      So let’s see. First Jim has to get elected to replace Johann. Everyone is behaving as if that’s a done deal so maybe it is.

      Then he has to win an election.

      I suspect the original plan was for the equivalent MSP to step down so he could stand for the Holyrood seat in 2015, on the day of the WM election. I’ll bet Labour could have made it worth the outgoing MSP’s while. Jim would hope to hold what on paper seems to be a safe seat, especially on a date when the SNP couldn’t turn its entire activist base on the seat. That was roughly what he seems to have told Sky News.

      Now he’s denying it though. Maybe he has realised that it’s not such a sure thing as all that, and actually quite risky because at a by-election he can’t have a place on the list to fall back on. Maybe he’ll revive the plan if his chances of winning the seat start to look better?

      If he doesn’t do that, though, he has to hold his present WM seat in 2015. It looks rock-solid safe, but there are considerations. How many voters will be annoyed by him standing, when obviously he’s going to resign the seat after a year? How many indy supporters would be sufficiently motivated to vote Conservative just to get him out? Or is a huge effort to get behind the SNP candidate really likely to pay off?

      Suppose he retains his WM seat, fine, that’s his deputy carrying on holding the fort at FMQ for another year. Well done Jim. Then come 2016 he has to stand in the constituency for Holyrood, and presumably they’ll have the sense to put him on the list to so that he’s pretty much guaranteed to get in one way or the other.

      Then he resigns the WM seat, triggering another by-election where the SNP get another go at the seat.

      Do you think anyone thought any of this through?

    147. Jim Arnott says:

      The blind leading the blind springs to mind.

    148. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Greame Doig & all those giving free psych to Jim Murph
      he,s covered with private health insurance payed for by the tax payer, but I,ll let you,s off this time. I have a psychco babbler in the Sth gen I could recommend.

    149. heedtracker says:

      All of this is really how red tories like Murphy deal with The Vow. The more devo The Vow looks like producing, the more chance of survival for red tory Labour in Scotland. But they must be so pissed off at Crash Gordon and the Daily Record, unless they really can wing it until next may via BBC/media propaganda but even so. Could blue tories have stitched up red tories like Murphy any better?

      The Vow has been buried locally here in Aberdeen by P&J for example. Just day after day monstering Salmond, Sturgeon, Scottish NHS etc, with usual groveling to royals. Very creepy Press and Journal send off for Anas today aswell but Anas did a do a hell of a lot to save the blue tories.

    150. Capella says:

      @BtP I wondered what the AuldA meant but didn’t want to be rude and ask!
      RE the Rt Hon Jim Murphy, former South African pupil of a white only school, 9 years a student with no degree, head of the NUS, wins Eastwood for Labour ” condemned by a House of Commons Early Day Motion introduced by Ken Livingstone and signed by 17 Labour MPs for ‘intolerant and dictatorial behaviour'”. Member of the Labour Friends of Israel group, member of the Henry Jackson Society, former Shadow Minister for Defence,
      ” In 2011, The Daily Telegraph published documents, compiled by a senior US official at the US Embassy in London and published by WikiLeaks, stating that throughout 2009, Jim Murphy was in charge of organising a coalition of Unionist parties whose aim was to “block an independence referendum” in Scotland.” (Wikipedia).
      “he admitted at a raucous meeting in Shawlands during the referendum campaign, he took up arms and joined PW Botha’s South African Defence Forces in defence of the Apartheid system.”
      What’s not to like?
      Tin foil hat time.
      This profile, to me, suggests a Company Man.

    151. Robertknight says:

      If a Holyrood seat should become available for ‘Murph the Mouth’ then the SNP, Scottish Greens and SSP should box clever and a single Green candidate should stand against him. The ConDems and Kipper candidates will be looking at single figure % in any event.

    152. heedtracker says:

      Torygrpah really has hots for Murphy too, shock. Its maybe because its halloween so many nasty creepy things keep happening in Scotland now. Thanks again proud Scot buts.

      From creepy old proud Scot but Comical Cockers.

      “It would be, frankly, madness if Labour rejected Mr Murphy. He may not be everyone’s cup of tea and many in Labour’s ranks are hugely irritated, in that perverse way of theirs, by his facility with words and by his popularity with the media – much in the same way as they used to regard Tony Blair.

      But he showed during this marathon referendum campaign that he has the drive, enthusiasm and, perhaps most of all, the passion necessary for leadership. He is the best chance – even the only chance – for Labour to stop its nosedive.”

      Happy Halloween everyone!

    153. ronnie anderson says:

      Was in Glasgow today to meet my Grandson, had a walk to Cadogan St ( that wee wummin sitting outside sure can work ah Megaphone) Darren Carnagie & a few others attended & a visit from the Friendly Polis. I wish that other groups take note,the Polis are NOT OUR ENEMY,they are there as much for us as the opposition. One guy last nite was on the cards for a free bed n breakfast if he had stayed,but all ended well. Murph back to the usual playing to the Camera,even greeting Delboy as a long lost media friend ( aye Jim & Delboy thinks highly of you ( gibbet gibbet gibbet n higher the better ).

    154. AuldA says:

      You should have asked. I’m no viper, I don’t bite, and even when I do, it’s not poisonous! 😉

      You could even add that I plan to leave my sunny Paris and relocate in Edinburgh, but that’s not an easy task!

    155. Juteman says:

      He looks like a bad transvestite.
      No offence to decent trannys.

    156. Albaman says:

      One thing Jim Murphy is not and that is a “shrinking flower”,when he said he wants to be First Minister he means it, and it does not matter to him how foul the methods he uses to achieve that.
      That’s why looking around at the S.M.P.s. the weakest of them I think is Carla Hilton, S.M.P. for Dunfermline, I think she may be the next sacrificial lamb, when you realise that G Brown, and Alex Rowlie (?), have the neighbouring constituencies, and Fife votes Labour even though they probably do not know whither “J Murphy” is a man or woman, (they just look for the party’s logo!.)

    157. HandandShrimp says:

      If the Torygraph likes him then any sane traditional Labour member should be rightly worried. However, most of the sane traditional Labour members have left so he may get elected yet. I wonder what deal they will try to effect to secure the Union vote because I think they would favour Findlay.

    158. Jimbo says:

      According to STV news:
      “The only Scottish Labour MPs who would survive would be Willie Bain in Glasgow North East, Tom Clarke in Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill, Gordon Brown in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath and Ian Davidson in Glasgow South West.”

      Maybe Murphy will insist one of these four is forced out to ensure he is given a guaranteed passage to the Slab leadership.

    159. george says:

      This has been a good day

    160. muttley79 says:

      Murphy has the support of John McTernan, Poor Old Cochers, and no doubt Blair McDougall. He appears to a member of this Henry Jackson Society, which appears to be right wing and neo-con. When should we get worried? 😀

    161. JGedd says:

      I remember reading some time ago, can’t remember where now, that certain Labour MSPs were regarded as under-performing by the party. I can only recall the names of two of them – Hamzala Malik and Siobhan MacMahon. They might be regarded as having their coats on a shoogly peg and next for the exit, but I think that both might be list MPs so wouldn’t solve Murphy’s problem. (Like I want to solve Murphy’s problem.)

    162. boris says:

      Whatever Happened to the Judicial Investigation Into Child Sex Abuse in Westminster? So we start again?

      Fiona Woolf is to step down as the head of an inquiry into historic child sex abuse, she has told the BBC. She said it had been clear for some time that victims did not have confidence in her, adding that it was time to “get out of the way”. Victims’ groups earlier told government officials they were “unanimous” she should quit, citing her social links with ex-Home Secretary Lord Brittan.

    163. Fiona on Arran says:

      In reference to the police, has anyone read their submission to the Smith Commission- it’s available to read on their website and worth a read. It’s quite startling in the forthright manner with which it details some of the problems and iniquities in the present devolution settlement.

      The commission may well be a waste of time, but it has given us a chance to see the internal thoughts of quite a few organisations. I think the referendum process has given folk the courage to speak more openly about the problems facing society today

    164. ronnie anderson says:

      I was going to suggest Wings produse a leaflet on Murphys history & distrabute it in his constituancy but it might turn into a book crowdfund REV crowdfund lets bring the Murph down before he gets started.

    165. Grouse Beater says:

      Macart: Here to help.

      Most welcome and very reassuring! 🙂

    166. bugsbunny says:

      What do you think certain Unionist Politicians will go out guising tonight at Halloween as?

      I’ll start the ball rolling.

      Jackie Bailey as a mishmash of the Honey Monster with Bride of Frankenstein Hairdo.


    167. Maid_in_Scotland says:

      heedtracker quotes from Torygraph re Murphy: “He is the best chance ….. for Labour to stop its nosedive.” It just about sums up the quality of person in politics these days when Murphy is considered the best chance for the survival of a major political party, a party which could see itself in power in Scotland at some point in the (hopefully distant) future. It’s worrying, isn’t it, to think that we, the electorate, have people of that calibre offering themselves as leaders whether it be UK-wide or within Scotland. To be fair to him, and I wish I didn’t have to be, there’s not much better in any of the three main Unionist parties, and as for UKIP …, no comment. I despair.

      Furthermore, it appears that a Labour personage will get to be top dog if he/she ‘performed well’ during the referendum campaign. How does that work? Who told the biggest lies, perpetrated the greatest deceptions, connived the most with the media in disgraceful untruths about the opposition, contrived to make their OWN country look wee, stupid and poor in the eyes of the world, shouted the loudest from a drinks crate? This country (UK) really is sinking into a mire and it’s the politicians who are leading us down aided and abetted by journalists of the same meagre intellect.

    168. Malky says:

      You are the proverbial thorn in the side, Sir. Kudos.

    169. Graeme Doig says:

      Boris @ 5.10 pm

      When you read about this kinda stuff and remember where the real power resides in this world of theirs, you get to thinking that demos like last night and all the others are like pissing in the wind.

      It’s all very well us cannon fodder marching and pontificating but they seem to be able to continue with their schemes and agendas regardless.

      Jings just come over all defeatist there. I’m away for a lie down before opening a bottle of ‘Aye til I die’ red 😉

    170. TJenny says:

      Crivvens, it just gets better and better as Jim Murphy appoints Blair MacDougall as his campaign adviser and Jenny Marra and Terry Kelly will also be on his campaign team (article in Scotsman, allegedly).

      Apparently Jim Murphy is having a campaign rally in Edin tomorrow – anyone any idea where and when?

    171. Calgacus says:

      Re. Halloween whit aboot Murphy as Uriah Heep?

    172. HandandShrimp says:

      Apparently Jim Murphy is having a campaign rally in Edin tomorrow – anyone any idea where and when?

      or even Why?

    173. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Velofello


    174. liz says:

      @boris – so how does that equate with we only have warships built in the UK if BEA systems is being sold off – so another lie bites the dust.

      @ ronnie anderson – there are several posters available about Murphy here is one example.

      That’s one of the things we have been discussing in our group in East Ren – I think the only thing that would shift some of the BT voters would be if fracking was coming their way

    175. joe macfarlane says:

      Anyone think they might have another leadership election soon to replace the rapidly sinking Ed , who’s next favourite to save the dying labour party if and when he goes , whats the odds he doesn’t make it to the GE.

    176. bugsbunny says:

      I hope by resigning his Deputy Leadership Anas has not been “overstretched”? We don’t wants any “splits” or “sore points” emerging, nor do we want his “Inner Circle”, to be “Penetrated”? Poor poor Anas. He’s worked himself “Red Raw”, and always comes up smelling of “shite”. It was a tough “job”, and he couldn’t get “lax” about it. It’s a “Bum” deal, on the “hole”.

      I’ll get my coat.


    177. IcySpark says:


      Jenny Marra as Little Red Riding Hood 😉

    178. Capella says:

      @AuldA merci beaucoup
      Your English is better than my French!
      @ ronnie Munguin’s Republic has some posters about Jim Murphy in the 29th October post.

      Probably someone has already mentioned this but the interview with Robin McAlpine on Livestream is excellent and very encouraging. Commonweal seems to be growing rapidly with cafe bar’s springing up and Robin plans a news service starting soon

    179. muttley79 says:


      Surely that is not Comrade Terry Kelly, the nat hating SLAB councillor from Paisley?

    180. This is from a speech in the House of Commons by Murphy.2013

      ” and the protests and the actions of the authorities, but we would never hear about it on the South African Broadcasting Corporation’s TV or radio news; we would need to listen to the BBC World Service on a small wireless in our house before we knew what was actually happening almost on our own doorstep.”
      Surely he was not intimating that the SABC were controlled by the State , fricken hypocrite.

    181. muttley79 says:

      It is not Terry Kelly, it is his slightly more talented, but only slightly, namesake, the one and only James Kelly MSP. What a dream team that it. Murphy, McDougall, Marra and Kelly. Dearie me what a sorry bunch of careerists.

    182. Natasha says:

      @Juteman 6.59pm

      I don’t really want to have a go at you, but I have to point out that the word ‘tranny’ is really offensive, not only in reference to cross-dressing people; transgender and intersex/non-binary people get called it as a form of abuse.

      I’m assuming you weren’t aware of that when you used it, but transgender and intersex/non-binary people are still subject to a great deal of prejudice and discrimination in our society. The suicide and self-harm rates among transgender teenagers are appalling. Part of my vision for an independent Scotland is of a society which respects diversity and equality. I would hope it’s yours as well.

    183. saporian says:

      I do wish people would stop advocating tactical voting for the Tories against Murphy. One of the reasons he has such a big majority is that SNP supporters vote for him to keep the Tory out. All SNP supporters should be told NO MORE TACTICAL VOTING. Vote SNP at all times even if you think the SNP cannot win. It is the only way that we can see the true level of support for the SNP, which might surprise some people. Even if the seat is not one at the first attempt it could put it within reach at future elections.

    184. Swami Backverandah says:

      @Capella 6.22

      As you know I’m new to this site and certainly don’t have anywhere near the knowledge of locals re Scottish politics and persons, but I have to say that on my first reading of “Jim for post-indy-ref leader of SLAB”, and hearing his profile as Better Together, Trident supporting, neolib neocon, coupled with his previous WM position in Defence and current as ‘International Development’, my over-riding impression was connections with arms sales.
      Friend of Israel and any links with the international armaments manufacturers, suppliers and distributors, will make him hard to shift from any seat he contests. I wouldn’t expect it to be a fair contest. ‘Some things are too important to be left to the will of the people.’
      The machinations surrounding his possible moves with its distinct lack of information all suggest moves in the ‘shadows’ – if ya get me drift.
      Happy to be set straight on any of the above musings. 🙂

    185. boris says:

      I have updated the blog to include details of his expense claims for the last 4 year’s

    186. AuldA says:

      You’re most welcome!
      And thanks for my English!

      Good pumpkin night everyone (we don’t grow pumpkins in France so no Hallowhateverover here)!

    187. Morag says:

      Saporian, that is precisely what I have been told by our branch convener, who is a smart cookie, and I believe he said it was party policy. Nobody can dictate or know what you do in the polling booth, but the line was no tactical voting and no advising of tactical voting.

      Even in the STV council by-election, when I asked (reasonably enough I thought) whether our councillors had any preference for where my second preference vote should go (as it was extremely unlikely the seat would go SNP but both the LibDems and the Tories were in with a shout) I was firmly told to put a 1 against the SNP candidate and stop there. Never vote for anyone else even as a second preference.

      So I think the SNP is ahead of you there. The more doubtful question is whether SNP supporters will actually toe the party line in that respect.

    188. joe macfarlane says:

      Anyone else think another leadership contest is on the horizon , Ed is not looking to job secure just now, maybe jim should have waited for the big job opening, knives are being sharpened foe Ed already , one more setback or bad poll and he could be gone , Labour really being rewarded for sleeping with the devi,. anyone know what the bookies are giving on labour looking for a new leader by xmas, who else is there for that job, who would want it

    189. TJenny says:

      Muttley – oops, maybe it was James Kelly, MSP and not Terry Kelly. Can’t find tweet now, and defo not venturing onto Scotsman website, to check. But both Kelly’s are SNP haters, ‘though Terry would have the advantage of making Jim look slightly less like the walking deid.

    190. bugsbunny says:

      Jim Murphy as, who else, but Skeletor,
      Gordon Brown as Frankensteins Monster, (only needs an eye and a conscience to be complete);
      Tony Blair as the Cheshire Cat,
      Blair MacDougall as Humpty Dumpty;
      Alastair Darling as the Little Boy who cried Wolf,
      Daily Record as Andrex Tiolet Roll;
      BBC Scotland as 1984’s Ministry of Information,
      George Foulkes as the Man Who Knew Too Little;
      David Cameron as Lord Snotty,
      Nick Clegg as a Jellyfish, (Spineless);
      Ed Milliband as Interference,
      Nigel Farage as Adolf Hitler;


    191. muttley79 says:


      It is definitely James Kelly MSP. I read it on the Scotsman website.

    192. nigel says:

      The machinations surrounding his possible moves with its distinct lack of information all suggest moves in the ‘shadows’ – if ya get me drift.
      Happy to be set straight on any of the above musings. 🙂

      I suspect that you may be correct Swami.

    193. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I’m keeping this wee image for the grand-weans. My hand is on the bamboo pole to the right of Murphy’s heid – the dude at the end of t’other pole was oor very ain Oneironaut.

      Very glad my face isn’t shown as I was ‘baying’ at that moment.

    194. Morag says:

      What moves, though? I don’t think they interfere with the actual voting papers and I don’t think they could, in practical terms. So how would they actually pull off this shadowy coup?

    195. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Remember I was picking y’all’s brains about good eye colour for an evil pig?

      Here’s The Evil Pig, captured forever!

    196. Stoker says:

      Senior care worker exposed as a pro-Union fascist wino thug.
      Exposed right here by his own side – The Red Tory Slabber.

    197. SquareHaggis says:

      What’s Gordon Brown doin in that picture?

      Looks like he’s either putting/pulling something grey into/out of his heid.

      Great find Rev 😉

    198. Rock says:


      “I’m even a wee bit glad we didn’t win, just to see all these corrupt politicians being shown up for what they are.”

      I think I am coming to the same conclusion.

      If we had won with a slim majority, we would have faced a lot of hurdles set up by the unionists in negotiating the terms.

      Once all these corrupt Labour politicians have been shown up for what they are, we should win with at least two thirds of the vote.

    199. Ian Brotherhood says:

      …and a nice one of the WOS banner.

      (I’m starting to wonder now how many people were actually there, and suspect I may have severely underestimated the number.)

    200. muttley79 says:

      Interesting article by Ivan McKee on Bella Caledonia:

    201. Fred says:

      Like Calgacus’s “Uriah Heep! 🙂

    202. John O says:

      Worse than i though for the bt unionist,66% back new referendum.

    203. Robert Peffers says:

      If others here, who like myself, are wondering what the hang The Henry Jackson Society is I managed to glean this from a brief Google session : –

      “The Henry Jackson Society is a powerful right-wing British think-tank. It was set up with the support of American neoconservatives. It is very well connected with the financial, business, political, security and energy industry top people in both the US and UK.

      While they claim to support freedom, liberalism and democratisation as their main objectives they seem to be more of a neocon trojan horse for exactly the opposite. That is for state-expansionism, state-militarisation, interventionism, rampant market deregulation and privatisation in the interests of Western investors. Furthermore, they couple all that with anti-Muslim hostility and white supremacism, (is that a real word)?

    204. Annette says:

      @Fiona of Arran: Thanks for signposting the submission from the Scottish Police Federation. It is very excellent indeed. And it will be very difficult for the unionist propaganda machine to dismiss Scottish police officers as deluded extremist rabble.

    205. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ AuldA

      Pumpkins in France?

      Oh yes we do in the SW.

      In Scotland we use a turnip, or a neepheid.

    206. Croompenstein says:

      Are the Red Tories having an autumn conference ? Would be another good chance to let them know which way the wind is blowing

    207. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Capella 8.31 thanks for that links enjoyed it.

    208. ronnie anderson says:

      @ John O 9.39. Aye & in 10 yrs Billions of ££££ have went South British Media surplanting the idea in the subconsious, FK them & their polls.

    209. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sinky says:31 October, 2014 at 5:20 pm:

      “The best description I have heard of Jim Murphy is that he is Unctuous meaning (of a person) excessively or ingratiatingly flattering; oily. synonyms: sycophantic, ingratiating, obsequious, fawning, servile, grovelling, subservient, cringing, humble, hypocritical, insincere, gushing, effusive; More glib, smooth, slick, slippery, oily, greasy; smarmy, slimy

      (or of minerals) having a greasy or soapy feel.

      I’ve described this guy for years as, “The Lugubrious”, Jim Murphy”. That is – mournful, gloomy, sad, unhappy, doleful, glum, melancholy, woeful, miserable, woebegone, forlorn, somber, solemn, serious, sorrowful, morose, dour, cheerless, joyless, dismal: funereal, sepulchral, down in the mouth, dolorous.

      How about we combine the two as, “The lugubrious and unctuous Jim Murphy”?

      Unless, of course, you have a better description?

    210. John O says:

      Thirty two arrested Scotsman says later on a group of people arrived who you may wish to characterise as No campaigners, even now they still try to cover up.

    211. Robert Peffers says:

      Andy-B says:31 October, 2014 at 5:31 pm:

      “Murphy a pro-Trident, anti- Palestine, Blairite, surely his stock must be toxic in Scotland, to the majority.”

      Ach! Andy-B, you know full well the general public only get to know what the BBC, Labour Party and the Westminster Establishment allow them to know. That is the biggest factor that lost us the referendum. Joe & Josephine Public only ever get a one-sided view of matters and it is always the gospel according to the Establishment. It was always thus … Until now.

    212. Stoker says:

      That’s a brilliant banner attached to the railings.
      As is the SSP one – not so much what it says but the clarity of it.

      Can i make a suggestion to all my fellow footsoldiers out there –
      if you’re ever going to create demo banners in the future, look at the 2 examples i mention in Ians link. That is exactly how to do them.

      They are large, uncrowded, clear and stand out, but most importantly they can be seen and read by just about everyone.

      btw, to those of you who made smaller placards etc, please don’t take that as a insult to your efforts, it’s not meant to be, i just feel that if you fill a small space with a lot of detail your great efforts will fail to have maximum affect.

      I tend to think the “KISS” principle works best:
      “Keep It Simple Stupid” (and clear).

      As i said, i’m not criticising anyone – ALL your efforts are very much appreciated and a very big well done to ALL who attended the event.

      Made me feel very proud and ashamed at the same time –
      ashamed at not being able to get there.

      Well done, troops.

    213. Dunx says:

      Ref the Scottish Police Federation submission mentioned by @Fiona of Arran and @Anette.

      It used to be said the Polis were conservative with a small “c”. I think it can now be said that the Scottish Polis Federation is SCOTTISH with a capital “S”

      As @Ronnie Anderson said earlier …”…the polis are Not the enemy…”

      Here is the link, worth a read.

    214. Dunx says:

      Ref the Scottish Police Federation submission mentioned by @Fiona of Arran and @Anette.

      It used to be said the Polis were conservative with a small “c”. I think it can now be said that the Scottish Polis Federation is SCOTTISH with a capital “S”

      As @Ronnie Anderson said earlier …”…the polis are Not the enemy…”

      Here is the link, worth a read.

    215. yesindyref2 says:

      When you think about it, a good few people left the Labour Party (Scottish Branch) this year, and joined the SNP / SSP / Green. But memberships are often paid annually, and people may not have resigned.

      Which means an unknown number of SNP / SSP / Green members will be voting for the new leader of SLAB 🙂

    216. unclebob says:

      Fiona on Arran says:
      31 October, 2014 at 7:35 pm
      In reference to the police, has anyone read their submission to the Smith Commission-

      Find it here:

      Brilliant stuff, well worth a read.

    217. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood so you enjoyed last nite did you manage to catch the last train,next time you do a banner, hiv wee Pepa Pigs running along the bottom Lol.

    218. Robert Peffers says:

      @Albaman says:31 October, 2014 at 7:07 pm:
      “Fife votes Labour even though they probably do not know whither “J Murphy” is a man or woman, (they just look for the party’s logo!”


      Ye mean he’s no a collie dug?
      Jings! Labour’s Fife candidates ir mibbie noo gettin tae be a better lik class.

    219. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Croompenstein 9.36, aye they’re hudding it in a Orchard you,ve heard of Windfall, and we’re dain the blawing AWE FAW DOON.

    220. Tam Jardine says:

      What the Scottish branch of the Labour party obviously needed was a demonstration of how London controls the agenda and stitches up the leadership…. the mind boggles.

      Scotland has changed, and the lab cabal might as well be trying to gen up on an astrophysics exam after a decade in a cave.

      Great to see the guid work last night. Thank you Ronnie, Ian and everyone else involved.

      Anyone familiar with 2000 AD will be familiar with Judge Mortis, one of the Dark Judges from Deadworld. Now Jim is inhabiting my TV 24/7 I think we need to recognise his alter-ego:

      Good luck reviving the cause of your own personal enrichment Jim but you should have kept the head down and just taken the dough: this is only get harder for you from here on in

    221. Melvin penman says:

      The people have now engaged in politics,the labour politicians are now showing there lack of skill.
      Which was not such an issue when the people were not paying attention. TheLabour party are devoid of talent ,creativity,passion and loyalty. Soon they will be devoid of a job. It just gets better and better for us. The next referendum is closer than we think. Two years seems more reasonable.
      Once the SNP have an overall majority of MP’s a referendum is certain. Nicola has already said this is a trigger for another referendum.

    222. Swami Backverandah says:

      Hiya @ Morag
      forgive the delay, and I haven’t read all the posts so there could be other info I’m not aware of.
      Re “moves”, I’m not suggesting anything as blatant as interfering with voting papers etc, just alluding to the machinations which must be taking place in order to secure his position.
      I expect very underhand tactics if necessary. If he is as it seems judging by his connections, he’s moved by powerful forces.
      It never did sit quite right did it.
      9 years at University, and then a further 2 as head of NUS?
      Blairite neo-con? Henry Jackson society?
      Wikileaks quotes the documents published in the Telegraph as originating in the US Embassy:

    223. Dorothy Devine says:

      Thanks for the link to the Police Federations submission – they sure don’t miss and hit the wa’!

      Most excellent!

    224. Morag says:

      Swami, yes, I appreciate that. However, wanting a particular outcome, and being prepared to resort to underhand tactics, doesn’t in itself deliver a result. I’m wondering what, in practical terms, these “moves in the shadows” might consist of.

      There’s a danger of thinking of our opponents as something akin to Ernst Blofeld stroking his cat and setting in motion an entire blockbuster’s worth of Evil Plans. These evil plans can’t be quantified, but of course they’re evil, and they’ll be successful.

      No, not necessarily. Our opponents can only do the possible, not the impossible. It’s up to us to identify the possible and then figure out how to stop them. Vague hand-wringing about “machinations” and “underhand tactics” is defeatist, not constructive.

    225. muttley79 says:

      @Melvin penman

      Once the SNP have an overall majority of MP’s a referendum is certain. Nicola has already said this is a trigger for another referendum.

      No, she has not said that. It will not be a trigger for another referendum. You don’t have independence referendums in successive years.

    226. Valerie says:

      Just read the Police submission, very strong and reasoned points being made. Good to read even if you jump to the last pages to see a summary.

      Thanks for posting.

    227. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ronnie anderson –

      Last train?

      I’ll have you know I was on the 10.13 from Central, along with Oneironaut. I put the canes for the banner on the overhead rack, then realised that I would surely forget them so put my four cans of Strongbow up there as well.

      Me, the canes, and the cans all got safely home at 11 p.m.. It was great seeing youse all, and all the more enjoyable for being unexpected.

      Jim Murphy, before walking into the maelstrom (knowing full well he had a phalanx of cops to protect us from him) actually said a cheery ‘Hiya, howyedoin?’ to Derek, the Livestream guy.

      He’ll become acquainted with many more of our big faces if he gets the gig he ‘wants’ so much.

    228. Swami Backverandah says:

      So if its Jim, it must be important.

      Why is it important that Scotland doesn’t achieve independence?
      What is devo-max, and why were the Establishment so desperate to convince Scotland they could have it for voting No?
      Because there are only two reserved powers – Defence, and Foreign Affairs.
      And the Establishment hope Jim’s the man to persuade Scotland to keep it that way.
      It has all the hallmarks. Let’s hope he’s exposed.
      Just my personal take.

    229. Valerie says:

      To Ian B and Oneironnaut – many thanks and well done, banner looked great – I shared a pic of it with Scots living in England!

    230. ronnie anderson says:

      I hope that Police submmission is shared to all sites , in the hope that some of the more Radical element see it & campainers cant be manipulated into abuse of the Polis at demos

    231. punklin says:

      Now if Sweetie (and Sunshine, or a turkey baster if he’s not up to it) could just manage a litter of three black-eyed babbies next May, then the red Tories would be in a v similar position to that of the blue ones…

    232. Capella says:

      @ Swami Backverandah and boris
      Agree. Here’s a Guardian article with some of his overseas trips (Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Phillipines) – for Overseas Development fact finding.

    233. galamcennalath says:

      From wikileaks …

      “Throughout 2009, UK Secretary of State for Scotland Jim Murphy played a leadership role in organizing the opposition parties, hoping to move Scotland toward implementation of the Calman recommendations as an alternative to an independence referendum, according to Murphy’s advisors, Labour party insiders, and opposition party leaders.”

      Calman as an alternative to an independence referendum! Murphy is clearly not of this planet.

    234. yesindyref2 says:

      The SPF in particular has never been the enemy, and neither has the polis. They seem to have been quite impartial.

      The SPF Smith submission is startlingly good, it even tackles the inequity of the Commonwealth funding, having earlier put the lie to the BT claims about funding for the police and even health. Yes the ScotGov has control over how it allocates it, but not what there is to allocate.

      I really like their example that the ScotGov might want to spend £1 for a policy, but can’t if there’s only 50p to spend.

      The SPF and STUC submissions are truly good, and represent a very significant part of Scottish society – Smith ignores at his peril.

    235. Swami Backverandah says:

      yes, I agree with you.
      No purpose is served by making events sound like some second-rate spook movie.
      However, what the general public is appraised of is often nowhere near the true picture of events.
      Manipulation is employed in many areas.

      In terms of ‘practicalities’, the only counter at our disposal is exposing by means of correct information in an alternative media. I understand you already know all this.
      I will add just one thing, that were it not for whistle-blowers, Wikileaks drop-boxes, Snowden etc, we would have no idea of much of the black operations in politics and the corporate world. Chilcot is still suppressed, as is the Feinstein Senate report, and there are others. Files go missing, are lost and buried.
      I am happy to meet with folk to discuss my experiences of similar matters in person, but won’t put it on the net.
      Thanks for your interest.

    236. I suspect that Labour at Westminster believe that Murphy can be promoted as the saviour of Scotland. They have no idea about how things have and continue to change up here. I don’t believe the 55% will be taken in, He will continue to be Westminster’s man.

    237. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood LOL very astute of you to put the cans next to the banner or you would be making banners every time there,s a Demo. Ian its always a pleasure to meet up with Wingers & Lurkers /Yessers,we’re on a mission of serious intent, but the laughs we get along the way are priceless as are the people we meet.

      Noo any Lurkers in tonite Growl become Lurchers n get posting.

    238. Morag says:

      yes, I agree with you.
      No purpose is served by making events sound like some second-rate spook movie.

      And then you go right on doing it. I’m allowed to draw my own conclusions from that?

    239. liz says:

      As for the police in Scotland not being against us – I have that felt since the indy march in Edinburgh September 2013.

      I went with a slight concern abt kettling but what I witnessed was the police smiling and keeping back.

      Also felt that abt the Imperial Masters video in Glasgow – comment on FB by an American saying how amazed they were at how close Empire Biscuits got to the politicians – saying they would be arrested in their country.

      Think abt what is happening in parliament Sq in London, folk being arrested for giving demonstrators food and saying it is illegal to sit on a tarpaulin.

    240. Robert Peffers says:

      @AuldA says:31 October, 2014 at 9:02 pm:

      “Good pumpkin night everyone (we don’t grow pumpkins in France so no Hallowhateverover here)!”

      Hi! AuldA, Just thought I’d mention that the Pumpkin thing is a strange one. Like much of the Country & Western music of the USA and even their Blues music of Jazz, its roots came originally from Scotland, via Ireland and was changed in the USA. The Scottish Halloween tradition comes from the feast of All Hallows and the traditional Halloween lantern was a hollowed out Swede ,(Turnip), with a candle inside. The USAsians changed the lantern to a Pumpkin and then that came back across the Atlantic and now our Scottish youngsters don’t know the old ways.

      The Trick or Treat thing is also a USA change as the old Scottish tradition was, “Guising”, which has somehow also become confused as something to do with the English Guy Fox. It is actually a corruption of, “Disguising”. All Hallows being the night when the dead arise and, “disguise”, themselves as the living to gather souls. While, “Guising”, was harmless fun with the youngsters knocking a door and chanting, “Please to help the Guisers, we’ll sing ye a bonny wee sang”.They would then perform a song, a dace or poem for pennies, fruit or sweets. The Trick or Treat is not harmless. They demand a treat and perform nothing and if no treat is forthcoming they throw eggs or otherwise punish the householder.

      Isn’t it amazing the strange things you can learn on Wings?

    241. yesindyref2 says:

      Sturgeon has said it is the Scottish people will decide if there’s another referendum, and quite handily the STV have started with regular Ipsos-Mori surveys – the current one showing 66% support for a ref in the next 10 years and (?) 57% in the next 5.

      That sort of “evidence” can be used, at the right time, to support a call from “the Scottish People” for another referendum.

      What I’d like to see is the SNP / ScotGov giving some sort of indication, not of when, but of how long a campaign would be likely. The last was near 3 years, the next might only need to be 6 months or so.

    242. Kenny says:

      Who would have thought such an odious party would simultaneously provide such comedy gold? It’s like the whacky races and the Red Tory Party are the “Really Rottens” who implode in on themselves….

      Really, Red Tories, it would be so much easier for you if you just went into politics based on beliefs, not trying to pretend you are something you are not (and what you are is the Blue Tory’s fag boys in North Britain, nothing more…).

      Even Winnie Ewing would have found East Renfrewshire a tough nut to crack and I would not have bet on her winning it back in the day! But I would like to see the SNP really make a determined effort; I would look for a Jewish version of Michelle Thomson from BfS, preferably a local, to stand and even then it might not go the first time…

    243. @Swami Backverandah
      Murphy has connections with what was up to today an unknown US/UK political think tank , he is not the only MP or Lord to be associated with them , they deal in World politics whether for good or bad thats up to your own politics ,if you are interested in World politics have a look at there web site ,some thought provoking polemic.
      Personally if they are trying to get influence at the highest level of UK politics a noisey blowhard like Murphy would not have been my choice.

    244. Morag says:

      Jingsandthings said something interesting on Derek’s blog. He might be right.

      He thinks Murphy has no intention of giving up his Westminster seat. So long as he can hang on in 2015, despite voters believing he may only stay for a year, he’s got plenty of time. Do whatever it is he’s being put in place to do, then stand down before May 2016 to let someone else take Labour into the Holyrood election.


    245. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ronnie anderson –

      The ticket man saw them up on the rack and said ‘Is that your stuff?’ I confirmed that the items belonged to me, and told him why the cans were up there beside the canes.

      He laughed and said, ‘Ah’d be tying the bag ay cans ontae the canes jist tae be sure.’

      Can you imagine the sight? Coming off a train with four cans of cider in a Tesco bag swinging off the end of a 6-foot stick, slung over the shoulder mediaeval-hermit style?

      Anyway! re Lurkers and lurchers…

      Where’s Francine?

      Francine, are you still lurking there? Are ye…?

      Come on, stick yer toe in the proverbial…or get yer Maw tae dunk ye right in!

    246. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I coulndn’t make up my mind whether to post this in “Every one a gem” or here, but I plumped for here.

      A puckle issues…

      Dubbieside says:

      “After the publication of the polls its time that the Yes alliance and the SNP meet up to sort out a strategy to ensure the maximum return from these polls.

      Let Sheridan and Fox contest the two Glasgow seats Labour would retain, Sillars to take on Brown in Kirkcaldy, and the independent councilor who support Yes on Shetland to take on Carmicheal. The Greens to take on Darling and the lone tory and the SNP to contest the rest of the seats.”

      I’d agree with most of that, except I think Sillars wants to retire.

      Jim Arnott says:

      The blind leading the blind springs to mind.

      I’m currently 3/4 the way through “Pandeamonium’ by Chris Brookmyre. I read this tonight in the bog (slight paraphrasing)…
      “The problem with the blind leading the blind is that the follower doesn’t know that the leader can’t see the way forward either.”

      Onnyhoo, something impinged upon my brain this morning, as a result of thinking about the Ipsos/MORI 52%.
      YES achieved 45%. Therefore, for the SNP to achieve 52%, a significant percentage of NO voters must be intending to vote SNP in the May 2015 GE.

      The question is, why didn’t they vote YES in the first place?
      My thoughts…
      A number of peeps who voted NO were what could be termed ‘reluctant NO’s’, in that they actually thought that Scotland could make its own way in the world, but were reluctant to have that weight of decision on their shoulders. What if independence went wrong?
      So, they voted NO, out of fear of the future.

      Now, the referendum is behind us, ‘the settled will of the Scottish people’ has been decided. So these reluctant NO’s, having looked at the performance of the SNP in government in Scotland since 2007, have decided that a vote for the SNP might be a good idea.

      Now, as the SNP are holding their 80th conference in a week or two, most peeps in Scotland will be aware that their reason for existence is ‘the independence of Scotland’.

      Thus, these reluctant NO’s can vote for the SNP next May, having seen their efficiency in government and knowing full well that the SNP will do everything in its power to achieve Scottish independence, and know that if we do achieve independence in the next year or three, and it subsequently goes ‘tits up’, they can honestly say that they voted NO in the referendum and the failure of Scotland as an independent country must be down to the SNP.

      Dissect and discuss…

    247. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Robert Peffers ah wiz gonna go oot guisin but the cooncil tain ma fireplace oot nae Soot tae blacken up wie,Al Jolsons no performing tonite Awe.

    248. Defo says:

      The Scottish Police Federation submission to Smith, linked above, is well worth a read. Who’d have thunk it, ra polis are really good guys !
      A few choice cut’s..

      “Day and daily the members of the Scottish Police Federation witness first-hand the corrosive effects of poverty and hopelessness that impact on our communities across the length and breadth of our country. Our members see children that although loved, are not properly cared for and who live in squalor. Our members see parents that despair at their own inability to find work and to feed and clothe their children. Our members see children whose parents lack the basic literacy skills to assist them with their homework or read them a bedtime story and our members see the life chances of too many of the next generation being destroyed by alcohol and drugs.”

      “The Scottish Police Federation asks the Commission to ask itself that if the further powers under consideration for transfer to the Scottish Parliament will not help address poverty and its associated devastating consequences, whether these powers go far enough?”

      “The Scottish Police Federation believes the public sector and public sector employees are unfair targets of the austerity agenda. Not one public sector worker was involved in the mis-selling of financial products. Not one public sector employee was involved in financial dishonesty surrounding LIBOR. Not one public sector employee crashed the stock market and not one public sector employee received millions in bonuses whilst aggressively avoiding tax.”

      ” Every public sector worker should earn enough for the service they provide to our citizens to not find themselves having to rely on benefits to deliver a reasonable standard of living. The Scottish Police Federation finds it bizarre that any government could promote a low wage approach in general but specifically in the public sector, yet finds it acceptable for the state to act as a pseudo subsidiser to its own low wage policy.”

      “The Scottish Police Federation believes the poor and most vulnerable in our society are paying a disproportionate price for the failures in the financial system that ultimately led to the global financial crisis.”

      And much much more.

    249. Robert Peffers says:

      @muttley79 says:31 October, 2014 at 10:36 pm:

      “No, she has not said that. It will not be a trigger for another referendum. You don’t have independence referendums in successive years.”

      Nah! Referendum holding has nothing whatsoever to do with time. You’re thinking of General Elections. Referendums happen when you have the majority of your voters baying for one and the many signs are that there are now most certainly more voters baying for another one now than there was before the last one took place.

    250. One_Scot says:

      I woke up about 1.30pm last night. I had to find out some information on line. Once I was done I clicked into WoS and read a few posts. I then went back to bed.

      Lying awake I could not help from feel that something was different, something about Scotland had changed, but I did not know what it was. After some time I realised it was the referendum, it was the fact that we had had the opportunity to walk through the door but chose to close it. And because of that opportunity, we now know we can walk through it, and all we have to do is decide when.

      I then knew the different was that before the referendum we did not believe, but now we do, and that can never be taken away.

    251. galamcennalath says:

      “Sturgeon has said it is the Scottish people will decide if there’s another referendum”

      That seems to be the SNP line. I think they want a majority of MPs in 2015, a pro-Indy win at Holyrood in 2016 both in MSPs and %.

      Then …. They will declare a short campaign second referendum at the first excuse.

    252. Swami Backverandah says:

      @cynical highlander – thanks for the links
      @scot finlayson – re the HJ Society – yes, thanks. It’s true. it’s entirely up to the individual to make of it what they want according to their own information on the matter.
      @ morag yes, we can all draw our own conclusions.
      Thanks to all, and anyone i’ve missed. I’m still getting that 20 min delay so often miss posts
      @ Capella – it has that certain stink, non? I expect after a couple more years, he’ll be off to Bilderberg. He’ll have to leave his earpiece at the door though 😀

    253. Morag says:

      I floated that idea earlier, and Muttley seemed to think it was still too soon. I don’t know. I think a short campaign after an overwhelming pro-indy vote in 2016, under the right political circumstances (“baying for it”) is the earliest it could possibly happen.

      It would need an awful lot of stars and planets to conjoin to get the right circumstances though. Yoda had a point. “Always in motion is the future.”

    254. Sinky says:

      The Labour infighting continues with Brian Wilson in Hootsman attacking Johann Lamont and predicting that Labour can get 42% support next May and in 2016.

    255. Morag says:

      Bilderberg. I was thinking that too. He really is the vilest example of all the classic “New World Order” tinfoil-hattery writ large. But it’s not a “conspiracy theory”, he’s for real and the only question is whether you think that’s OK or not. Me, I don’t.

      But I still come back to these people only being able to do what is possible. And if it’s possible, it’s also possible for us to figure out what it is. Then it becomes possible to counter it. Rambling on about the shadowy forces being able to do anything by some mystical forces is counterproductive.

      Does nobody at all realise how much energy is wasted declaring that the evil ones must have done something manifestly impossible, that could be spent figuring out the possible thing that they actually did do/

      I’m rambling. Time to turn in.

    256. Morag says:

      Brian Wilson is delusional and whistling in the dark.

    257. ronnie anderson says:

      @ thanks Ian haw Francine come on give it a go we dont bite much,you made a committment last nite.

    258. Kenny says:

      The Scottish Polis are among the “good guys”. Don’t forget how they came out and slapped down the no campaign when Darling and others were claiming intimidation and an atmosphere of “fear”. Our polis did not mince its words and told Darling in no uncertain terms that they had better things to do than investigate tweets and people heckling politicians….

    259. Piemonteis says:

      @ Brian Doonthetoon / Dubbieside

      I can see the logic behind standing Sheridan in Glasgow South West, but I think it’s a no-goer. Both the SSP and Women for Independence refuse to share a platform with the guy, and the SNP and Greens were never too keen to let him in either. It perhaps sends out an unnecessarily divisive message. I’d keep him in store for knocking out Johann Lamont in 2016. Is Solidarity still going or would it be as an independent. Perhaps better as an independent.

      Also, I don’t think lifting Colin Fox from Edinburgh into a Glasgow seat would be a success. Better with someone Glasgow-based from Radical Indy such as Cat Boyd.

      And I don’t think Sillars would be up for standing in Kirkcaldy. Brown might step down anyway to make it easier (although it would be sweeter if he didn’t).

    260. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, Before the ref Indy was a possibility for 25% of us, a dream. It become a ossible reality through the ref, not just for us though, but for all Scotland, something most people had never even bothered thinking about before. Now it’s “always on my mind” for the majority already, hopefully.

      Yes, I think it will be a short and sweet campaign too, probably starting from a few opinion polls showing support for Indy at around 60%. And that would see other parties being a lot more careful who they backed, and what they said. Possibly in 2016, but a very good chance in 2017.

    261. Kenny says:

      I do not think Jim Murphy has been “set up” by Ed re the opinion polls. I honestly think, in their deluded minds, the Red Tories see Murphy as a sort of Blair Mark 2. And, worringly, given his odious US neo-liberal connections, this might be the whole master plan for which Murphy is being groomed… Never mind, wee Nicola will soon cut him down to size and put his gas at a peep!

    262. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @One-Scot (11.32) –

      Hear hear.

      We discussed this last night in the Horseshoe.

      During the final weeks prior to Sep 18th, many of us truly believed that we were going to win. We were not suffering mass delusion. The feeling was genuine.

      That ‘feeling’ generated an atmosphere which none of us had ever experienced. We caught a glimpse of how independence might feel, and liked it. It felt ‘right’ because it was right, for the same reason that the result feels ‘wrong’ because it was wrong – even the naysayers knew that on the night, and have done a bad job of disguising it ever since.

    263. manandboy says:

      If you were teaching politics at University, then you would include a lecture on the Butler-Sloss/Woolfe episode.

      One of the lessons you would wish to impress on your students is that the Establishment will always seek to defend itself with the utmost force and vigour where necessary.

      Even the rights, needs and interests of abused children are of secondary importance to the requirements of the corrupt Establishment to remain untouched by legal and criminal enquiries.

      Whether one is dealing with an enquiry or an election, the Establishment will make sure that the interests of the ruling classes are upheld above all else.

      The excesses and indulgences of the Establishment since the time of Mrs Thatcher, have led Scotland at least, to the point we are approaching, which is the realisation that the United Kingdom must be dismantled and be rebuilt in a completely different way.

      Otherwise, and sooner rather than later, life for Scots here in the UK won’t be worth living.

    264. Capella says:

      @ Morag
      I read comments on this blog a few months ago about the by-election in Glenrothes. Labour won although all the polls had predicted an SNP win. Even Labour had given up hope.
      There was a huge increase in the postal votes.
      The electoral register went missing after it was handed in to the Sheriff Clerk making it impossible to check who voted..
      That’s one way of fixing an election. It’s possible.
      I don’t know myself if any of the above happened but it does meet the “possible” test.

    265. Graeme Doig says:


      Is that the SPF or SSP submission?

      Shouldn’t be surprised that they take the wellbeing of society seriously. Thanks for your ‘ choice cuts’

    266. yesindyref2 says:

      Thought for the night. There’s been talk about people regretting voting NO because of the more powers being doubtful. I don’t get out much (no money and too busy), but even then I know someone who insists they (and family) voted YES whereas I know almost for sure they’d have voted NO. I think this is an “ashamed” factor, they’re ashamed of having voted NO, and are pretending they voted YES.

      Seems to me as a gut feeling, YES right now would get over 50%. We need an opinion poll!

    267. Morag says:

      Thinking about how it’s possible for a young, idealistic newcomer to become so corrupt as to be associated with these shadowy groups Murphy has been linked to. (Not that I’m assuming he was ever idealistic, mind.) I remembered this essay by C. S. Lewis, based on a speech to a group of undergraduates.

      It would be polite and charitable, and in view of your age reasonable too, to suppose that none of you is yet a scoundrel. On the other hand, by the mere law of averages (I am saying nothing against free will) it is almost certain that at least two or three of you before you die will have become something very like scoundrels. There must be in this room the makings of at least that number of unscrupulous, treacherous, ruthless egotists. The choice is still before you: and I hope you will not take my hard words about your possible future characters as a token of disrespect to your present characters.

      And the prophecy I make is this. To nine out of ten of you the choice which could lead to scoundrelism will come, when it does come, in no very dramatic colours. Obviously bad men, obviously threatening or bribing, will almost certainly not appear. Over a drink, or a cup of coffee, disguised as triviality and sandwiched between two jokes, from the lips of a man, or woman, whom you have recently been getting to know rather better and whom you hope to know better still—just at the moment when you are most anxious not to appear crude, or naïf or a prig—the hint will come. It will be the hint of something which the public, the ignorant, romantic public, would never understand: something which even the outsiders in your own profession are apt to make a fuss about: but something, says your new friend, which “we”—and at the word “we” you try not to blush for mere pleasure—something “we always do.”

      And you will be drawn in, if you are drawn in, not by desire for gain or ease, but simply because at that moment, when the cup was so near your lips, you cannot bear to be thrust back again into the cold outer world. It would be so terrible to see the other man’s face—that genial, confidential, delightfully sophisticated face—turn suddenly cold and contemptuous, to know that you had been tried for the Inner Ring and rejected. And then, if you are drawn in, next week it will be something a little further from the rules, and next year something further still, but all in the jolliest, friendliest spirit. It may end in a crash, a scandal, and penal servitude; it may end in millions, a peerage and giving the prizes at your old school. But you will be a scoundrel.

      The whole thing is worth a read. Indeed, Lewis’s character of Mark in That Hideous Strength is a fictionalised account of a young academic in the grip of the compulsion to achieve Inner Ring status.

      I think he’s describing the entirety of British politics. Indeed, I think he was consciously describing the entirety of British politics at the time he made the original speech (1944). Bear in mind Lewis was Irish, though unionist.

    268. Charles Edward says:

      Regarding the strange things found on Wings..
      Who owns the land in Scotland and what are they doing with it?
      What did the old witch the Brahan Seer mean when he said the black rain would come and the wild deer would have sores and after that the people would take back the land?
      The Darien scheme expeditions, were they sabotaged in order to facilitate major tax fiddling and customs irregularities between London and Edinburgh?
      The sailors and crew executed in leith back then, why were they pardoned and we’re they guilty anyway?
      Oh and for all the Games of Thrones fans out there read up on the Glenco massacre, and Clanaboy while your at it.
      Sorry this is all a bit O.T. but I’m spooked out by how the Egg – Man Murphy has been given an upgrade from his Barr bru box.
      2 dozen British stamped please- just in case he comes down my way with his nonsense.

    269. Morag says:

      Capella, I’m agnostic about Glenrothes. But even if something did happen there, it’s not something any group can possibly rinse and repeat as required, and even hope to get away with it.

    270. Wee jock poo-pong mcplop says:

      @one-scot: That’s just what I’ve been thinking. Before the referendum, few thought there was any real possibility – me included. But then the result was so close that now, everyone knows that it is really, truly an option.

      In the long term, that’s a real game-changer.

    271. Robert Peffers says:

      @Morag says:31 October, 2014 at 11:39 pm:

      “It would need an awful lot of stars and planets to conjoin to get the right circumstances though.”

      Well, Morag, I know you are in a difficult area for indy voters as is Fife. I hurt myself on referendum night so am not out and about so much just now. However l live at a place where there is a constant flow of people heading for Lochore Meadows Country park and where several other popular walks converge along the front of our cottages.

      I speak to everyone and I get a feeling for the mood of the general public. There certainly is a greater feeling now among the general public for indy than there was right up until referendum night. This is certainly in line with what the polls are showing too. As Nicola has said – it is up to the people of Scotland if/when another referendum will happen.

    272. Morag says:

      There aren’t any sores on the wild deer. If that happens, I’ll tell you.

      Oil isn’t rain, either. How much poetic licence is allowed?

      Men are going on iron horses under the sea to France though.

    273. Valerie says:

      When I attended my first branch meeting of the SNP here in Cumbernauld, the elected members said there were a fair number of SNP members who had voted No at the referendum, but will vote SNP at the WM elections. I was a bit gobsmacked, but seems some party members are not keen on independence, but want a SNP member in the London parliament.

    274. manandboy says:

      briandoonthetoon says “and know that if we do achieve independence in the next year or three,
      and it subsequently goes ‘tits up’,
      they can honestly say that they voted NO in the referendum and the failure of Scotland as an independent country must be down to the SNP.

      After 7 years of consistent and competent management, and with all its natural wealth at its disposal for the first time (but without it’s UK bills to pay,) there is as much chance of Scotland going ‘tits up’ as there is of us all voting Tory for the rest of our lives.

    275. Anne Lawrie says:

      Read on another thread that the big hitter wasn’t invited to the doo last night. Maybe someone who was lurking outside can enlighten us. Also, yesterday was St Jude’s day. Was the patron saint of lost causes chosen deliberately for their knees-up?

    276. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @ Morag

      Wow, thanks for the quotation from CS Lewis. Sent shivers up my spine, that did. Wasn’t aware of it but it’s so redolent with quiet truth.

      Love this site. Learn so much from it. It’s worth so much more than just the sum o’ the pairts o’ Stuart’s journalism. Which in itself is utterly invaluable.

      @ Charles Edward

      Let’s all learn as much as we can about how the Establishment operates….and expose it, and thwart it.

    277. liz says:

      Think I’m losing my mind. Kept wondering where is Marcia with the Sunday Herald front page.

      Very interesting quote from CS Lewis via Morag – reminds me of Dorian Gray and Mr Hyde – both tempted by the ‘dark side’.

    278. liz says:

      Just seen this on twitter. Speaks volumes

    279. Valerie says:

      BETTER Together campaign director Blair McDougall has been appointed to Jim Murphy’s campaign team in his bid for the Scottish Labour Party leadership, it has been reported.

      Scotsman 1st Nov

    280. James says:

      I’m trying to look at things from a point of view that until the current age of information was impossible to see clearly. My opinion is that people were to a more certain extent that the press was telling the truth. In addition the gap between perceived lies and truth was bigger, more polarised. Now the people realise that the truth is merely something to be spun, manipulated from 0% truth to 100% Truth by the BBC (about 33% but most effective), the Daily Mail (about 99%), The DR (disgusting ("Tractor" - Ed) newspaper dumped on Scotland – not measurable) and all the self serving Westminster partnered Media. Why are they partners? They need to be because they have so much career ending dirt on each other they can’t bear to admit it. Thank’s for the outlet lol. Feel Better.

    281. Capella says:

      Just read the Scottish Police Federation submission to the Smith Commission. Wow. Absolutely spot on. Thanks to those above who posted the link. Glad I read that and will be letting everyone know where to find it.

    282. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @ Anne Lawrie

      It was Mandy Rhodes, editor of Holyrood Magazine, who tweeted that “an impeccable source” had said that Gordon Brown hadn’t been invited to the Gala Dinner. Now the last time she referred to “an impeccable source” on a recent occasion, about something else, that source was none other than Henry McLeish!

      Anyway, whoever this “impeccable source” was on this occasion, you can bet your bottom dollar that Ms Rhodes wouldn’t be tweeting this thing about GB not being invited, if she didn’t have this on VERY good authority.

      Can it really be so? That the Big Gordon, who along with his pals at the Daily Record, conspired to give us the utterly manufactured “Vow” to persuade a goodly 5% or more of the electorate into voting No and landing them their Indy Ref win, has actually been deliberately excluded from their beano just six weeks later??!

      What’s that all about, then?

      What a nasty, bitter, factionalist, back-stabbing bunch they all are. They deserve one another.

    283. liz says:

      @Quinie frae Angus – also heard that Mags Curren who is being blamed for stabbing her bestest pal JoLa is going to be ‘rewarded’ by being demoted to J Murphys old job and Anas promoted to Scottish secretary.

      That however is all rumour at the moment.
      We will see.

    284. Capella says:

      @ Morag
      Great quote from C S Lewis. I bet the students were shifting around uncomfortably looking to see where Sunny Jim was!

    285. Defo says:

      Graeme Doig

      Fiona on Arran says:
      “In reference to the police, has anyone read their submission to the Smith Commission-”

      Find it here:

      Better still, they’ve gone and rounded up the Unionist thugs who descended on Geo.. Freedom Square on the 19th.

    286. Valerie says:

      Neil Findlay has become the first Scottish Labour leadership candidate to pick up Trade Union support. Rail union ASLEF have backed the MSP this afternoon, becoming the first union to formally endorse a candidate (although it looks like Unite will back Findlay too). Their General Secretary Mick Whelan released the following statement:

      “We are supporting Neil Findlay in his bid to become leader of the Scottish Labour Party and, we hope, First Minister in 2016, because he has the character, the vision, the talent and the ability to deliver for the people of Scotland. Neil understands what Labour has to do to win back the hearts, the minds, and the votes of working men and women in Scotland.”

    287. Stoker says:

      Valerie says:
      1 November, 2014 at 12:21 am
      “When I attended my first branch meeting of the SNP here in Cumbernauld, the elected members said there were a fair number of SNP members who had voted No at the referendum, but will vote SNP at the WM elections. I was a bit gobsmacked, but seems some party members are not keen on independence, but want a SNP member in the London parliament.”

      Gradualists, possibly?

      Anne Lawrie says:
      1 November, 2014 at 12:28 am
      “Also, yesterday was St Jude’s day. Was the patron saint of lost causes chosen deliberately for their knees-up?”


    288. Quinie frae Angus says:


      Woah, can’t see her taking that lying down.

      I expect we haven’t seen the last of the knives out yet. A lot of bodies are buried, waiting to be dug up by the jealous and the bitter….

    289. Morag says:

      Just one more acknowledgment of how good the SPF submission is. Kudos to the boys in blue.

    290. Blair McDougall and Murphy worked on David Miliband’s ill-fated campaign to become Labour leader thats why Blair and Murphy are up here.
      Murphy, McTernan, McDougall three schoolyard bullies and the BBC/media against Nicola.
      Nicola will destroy them all.

    291. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Quinie frae Angus –

      Great to see you back.

    292. Stoker says:

      See that photo at the top of this page…go on…have a look.

      It looks like a dress rehearsal for watching their 2015 results.

    293. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Thanks Ian. See you all soon, I hope.

    294. Stoker says:

      Valerie @ 1.07am


    295. Paula Rose says:

      (shh don’t tell anyone, party time in O/T)

    296. Jim Gardner says:

      I do not believe any of SNP members (2500 approx) leading into the referendum vote did vote no maybe some of the tactical SNP voters did vote no, but after the intensive NO campaign and the infamous VOW I’am not surprised, but after all the broken promises, smoke and disception I am sure things will be quite clear that everyone now knows how wide spread the unionist liars have lied to not only Scotland but too the rest of the world.

    297. Onwards says:

      In reference to the police, has anyone read their submission to the Smith Commission-

      Find it here:

      Brilliant stuff, well worth a read.

      Some good points on the limitations of devolving income tax alone, which only accounts for 20% of spending.

      And on what they call the ‘Barnett Bypass’, or how Scotland gets screwed on London projects considered of national importance such as the Olympics.

    298. Ken500 says:

      If the Police did not arrest and put so many innocent people in the cells, unlawfully, instead of giving a caution. Like they used to. There would be more money to go after the guilty. The Glasgow/Police unlawfully arrest the innocent, for minor misdeameanors, and let the guilty go free. They are part of the problem. The Police are out of control. Completely wasting public money. Sometimes people wonder who the criminals are.

      Glasgow ‘political’ show trial on behalf of Labour/Unionist (Blair) cost £5Million. Helicopter falling from the sky. Abusing women, lying to cover themselves, carrying offensive weapons. Supporting media criminals on behalf of corrupt politicians. Police create crime. The criminal justice system costs a fortune, instead of arresting the ‘innocent’ and cutting ‘crime’. The legal aid funds are being cut.

    299. Ken500 says:

      The urban myth that SNP members do not vote for Independence. Can anyone prove that? Or have met them? What are they doing in a Party whose first aim is Independence, since 1928.

    300. Ken500 says:

      Brown and Blair and the rest of the lying crooks at Westminster should be in jail, not attending £200 a head Gala Dinners in Glasgow protected by the Cops. Westminster’s lying bunch of fraudsters get away with murder, false promises and defeat the rights of justice through the Westminster Parliamentry system, which protects the guilty and does not support the innocent. Westminster fraudsters, rapists, get away with murder, along with their associates. Media/Press/Police. The whole system rotten to the core, protected by Parliamentry privilege, and above Law (that they make).

    301. Ken500 says:

      If Brown had not made his illegal, undemocratic intervention, along with the other Westminster crooks and mass murderers. Scotland would be Independent now. The illegal, lying ‘VOW’.

      Unionist Politican free by 2016. Vote SNP/Alliance 7/5/15
      Independent by 2020.

    302. john king says:

      Valerie says
      “Here is the dream team, courtesy of Bo’ness SNP”

      Hahahahahaha brilliant

    303. Ken500 says:

      The Police have been in the pockets of Unionist Politicans forever. Despite complains of corruption in GCC, the most corrupt administration ever. The Glasgow/Police have not even bothered to look at or find the evidence. Yet they will set up a political ‘show’ trial (£5million) in behalf of corrupt Unionist politicians. Ignoring the evidence of major wrong doing by the corrupt Media to falsify a conviction through suppression and lack of evidence, of an honourable man. Public money wasting hypocrites and masons.

    304. gordoz says:

      Have no sympathy, ever, for BLabour – remember they are the British establishment from the inside out – all of them.

      They must be squashed at all opportunities.

      Now.. a truly independent Labour party of Scotland that would countenance an Independent Scotland.

      Hmmm ever likely to happen ???

    305. Scotspine says:

      Ken 500 Some of us have Police relatives. When they go out the door for a shift you worry whether they will walk back in later.

      “The police are out of control” – you havent got a clue. Read their submission……

      Creating division and suspicion doesnt help anyone……unless you have an axe to grind of course?………..

    306. emegra says:

      RE Gordon Brown not being invited to the gala dinner

      It may have simply been they were afraid he made an inpromptu after dinner speech and sent them the bill


    307. Luigi says:

      emegra says:
      1 November, 2014 at 7:50 am

      RE Gordon Brown not being invited to the gala dinner

      It may have simply been they were afraid he made an inpromptu after dinner speech and sent them the bill

      Aye, at only 200 quid a ticket, they obviously couldn’t afford him.

    308. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, your head is still there Gordon.

    309. yesindyref2 says:

      Not one of your best postings, try reading their Smith submission.

    310. Ken500 says:

      Equal justice under the Law. Not likely. One Law for the rich another for the poor. The price of the Union.

    311. Ken500 says:

      The truth and freedom of speech create division. Hello, hello, hello. Create division. Hypocrites. One Law for the rich and the enforcers. another for the poor. The criminal justice system. It wisna me. I’m innocent.

      Many people have relatives in the ‘police’ force. Laughing at the poor. That’s how they get their insider information. The legal system.

    312. john king says:

      Stoker @1.14

      I looked at that photo and thought exactly that Stoker, so the SLAB have a meltdown at the next election and we have:
      Sarwar saying, “sorry run that by me again, IM OUT OF A JOB”?
      Gordon Brown saying “we’ve been rumbled guys were fu**ed”,
      and Joanne clapping in satisfaction at the destruction of a party the stabbed her in the back!

    313. AuldA says:


      First the press, then the police, and who’s next?
      What is this? A scapegoat competition? A witch hunt?

    314. Kalmar says:

      @ scot finlayson aha! I suspected Murphy was some sort of us/uk neoliberal plant. I guessed he was British American Project, and that was why the BBC are backing him. Wrong bunch of creeps.

    315. Ken500 says:


    316. Ken500 says:

      People in Glass houses shouldn’t throw stones and there is an axe to grind.

    317. yesindyref2 says:

      I had a close relative in the police (died of natural causes), one who was firearms trained when very few were. Your remarks are offensive.

    318. Devorgilla says:

      Re Scottish Police Federation: they are NOT to be confused with Police Scotland.

      The SPF is a civil organisation which represents police and is a kind of trade union for serving policemen and women in Scotland.

    319. Tamson says:

      Regarding the Apartheid stuff in Tommy Ball’s blog, is that really true? I thought Murphy left SA to dodge his National Service?

      And is there any record of what his parents did re Apartheid? Strikes me that people who migrated to find work because of prejudice at home (Murphy being a name on a CV to go in the round file in many a Scottish workplace in Times past) made an odd choice in heading for South Africa.

    320. Ken500 says:

      The submission recognises (probably for the first time, they knew all along), where their funding comes from. Opportunistic. The Police/Scotland leadership is suspect. Heads should roll.

      Close relatives were in the Police. Your remarks are offensive. Good cop, bad cop. The shifts are difficult because of the leadership. A few bad apples, rotten to the core.

    321. Ken500 says:

      There is a lot of work to do in Scotland.

    322. Juteman says:

      No offence meant. It’s just that every time I see Murphy, I think of the Rocky Horror Show. 🙂

    323. Capella says:

      @Ken500 8:15 am
      “Equal justice under the Law. Not likely. One Law for the rich another for the poor. The price of the Union.”

      Ken500 – the police don’t create the law. That’s the politician’s job. The police are supposed to administer and “police” it. They don’t even prosecute the villains. That’s the procurator fiscal’s job. They’re just supposed to provide the evidence. Mostly it works.
      Why don’t you read the submission to the Smith Commission. It’s excellent.

    324. Alt Clut says:

      The police federation document seems to me to be quite an important development.

      It must be obvious to most of us by now that the Independence movement is a REVOLUTIONARY movement – it challenges the existence of the present fabric of the state.

      Threatened states will go to whatever lengths of illegality and violence that they need to in order to survive. Those opposing the power of the state are faced by its, “monopoly of organised violence” – courts, police, army, state security etc. etc.

      The police federation statement is quite remarkable in this context – a voice from a major organ of the state which opposes the core strategies of that state. A major step forward !

      No doubt, in some contexts, some parts of Police Scotland will act as bullies for the state but clearly; an opposite thought process is also in motion. Dissent from the state’s strategy, among its own forces, is a classic prerequisite for the success of revolutionary movements.

      Give the SPF statement a welcome and encourage more !

    325. AuldA says:

      @Robert Peffers:

      Isn’t it amazing the strange things you can learn on Wings?

      Indeed. That’s why I love this site, and the people here… Even if I don’t always agree with them!

    326. Natasha says:

      @Juteman 10.28am

      Fair enough.:-)

    327. Ken500 says:

      The ‘Police’ do not administer the ‘Law’. Innocent people can be charged for minor misdemeanour. A traumatic experience for people who would not hurt a fly be detaining in a cell. Incurring legal expenses, time and other public expenses. To hang about courts. Only for the charges to be totally dropped because they should not have been brought in the first place. A Police Report which contains lies to cover up the ridiculous action. Some people end up with criminal records for minor misdeameanors, which before would have just been given a caution.

      A Police helicopter in build up area costing £10,000 an hour to police football crowds or find motor bike thieves. That worked out well. People died. Sometime people wonder who the criminals are.
      Care in the community – Prison, People with mental health issues, autistic or aushbergers in prison. People with addiction problems in prison, when proper ‘one chance’ total abstinence rehab counselling is cheaper and much more affective and saves lives. The affect on society, the human and financial cost.

    328. Ken500 says:

      The Commision report is irrelevant. Just an admission that the Police know which side their bread is buttered and does not cover the criminal cover up of political activity or police collusion with the political system. Or politicians who have been above the Laws that they make in the UK and Westminster.

      The present Scottish Gov is trying to clear up the mess, with limited overall political power, but injustice and waste of public funds is still happening.

      Crime levels overall are low pro rata to population. Victims should be paramount.

    329. Desimond says:

      The folk having a go at Ken surprise me. I thought the Police were about respected as much as Scottish Labour these days. Purely self serving.

    330. Craig Murray says:

      Scott Finlayson

      The Henry Jackson Society is by no means unknown. Some of us have been monitoring it for years. Your assumption that because Scott Finlayson does not know about something, it cannot be important, is ridiculous.

      So is your assertion that the Henry Jackson Society is an unremarkable organisation whose moderate aims may ne the subject of legitimate debate of their legitimacy.

      The Henry Jackson Society was founded by far right Republicans and Southern Democrats with the avowed aim of spreading “Western values” abroad by armed force, in support of the Bush/Blair Wars. It has a very definite anti-Muslim agenda and is linked to all sorts of very right wing groups. It is very well connected in the media, “elite” universities and has close ties to the security services. Its regular spokesman in the UK is Douglas Murray, who is astonishingly far right. Google him.

      Murphy has been deeply involved in the Henry Jackson Society since the start. None of this is conspiracy theory – it is all very easily verifiable.

      That someone like Murphy is set to lead Scottish Labour is astonishing.

    331. Molly says:

      Ken 500
      If you knew anything about the Police you would know they have known for a long time what side their breads buttered but regardless of that, they are still out there at ungodly hours , dealing with stuff that the rest of us either turn the other way from or would make our hair curl.

      The same men and women who miss their own kids birthdays and Christmas because that’s the job, the same folk who are faced with what’s left of road accidents , violence and worse.
      There may be a few that shouldn’t be in the job but at the end of the day , they are people like you and me, somebody’s Dad/Mum , son or daughter.

      If you read the submission, their reps are saying , the Police see and have to work with the impact of Westminsters policies, does that sound like their priority is defending the Unionists/ establishment?

      When the terrible events happened in Edinburgh (the wee boy) , I for one admired the professional , sincere way the police went about their business, working with the public .

      There are many facets to policing you cannot just lump everyone together .

      There will always be some folk who should be rooted out, (I’ve met more officious folk at Tesco )but isn’t that what the discussions over the last few years about Westminster have been about?

    332. Valerie says:

      Well said, Molly. I hope the police detractors have read the police submission, which is very much in favour of decisions being taken in Scotland, and policy not dictated by London. They have to try and take a middle line politically, as any party could be in power in the future.

      On the demos events I’ve been to, the Police have been excellent, only keeping an eye from a distance. In fact, there has been commented t by a few on the marked difference between the events here and the heavy approach in London.

    333. Ken500 says:

      Oh the Police are just wonderful to those who would rather turn a blind eye, then upset the rotten apple cart and accept Blair/Brown and the rest of the crooks lies and the corrupt and collusion at the top and the affect that made on society. So they could line their pockets with public money for personal gain, spin and lies. Sell themselves to the highest bidder when they should have been in jail.

    334. Bob Mack says:

      Just getting away from the Police for a second Did I really pick up that Slim Jim apologises to the Scottish people and states should he be successful he will go against all his political history and will really reinstste real Socialist values in Scotland i.e. left wing , whilst the rest of Labour U.K. continues on its merry way with their Centre right politics. You could not make this up. One party which tries to mean everything to everybody whether North ,South, East or West. What for Wales?. How do they create policy to achieve this? Answers on a postcard please!.What a shabby crew they are. Professing to come into politics to improve the lives of people, but making up policy on the hoof, which fits the need of the moment, with no actual desire to implement it. I want so much to be there, when Murphy,s cobbled promises clash with National Labour policy.

    335. Will Podmore says:

      manandboy writes that Britain needs to be rebuilt. I couldn’t agree more.

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