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Less than the whole truth

Posted on October 03, 2015 by

Most of Scotland’s news outlets, including the Times, Herald, Daily RecordDaily MailExpress and the BBC, run today with the story that one in three Police Scotland officers intend to leave the force in the next three years, according to a recent survey for the Scottish Police Authority.

(The print edition of the Scotsman makes it the front-page splash, although the article has mysteriously vanished from its website.)


But a couple of pieces of important information are inexplicably missing.

The Times, for example, notes that:

“The most common factors cited by those who want to quit the force were not feeling valued, a lack of resources, a lack of genuine commitment to wellbeing, health and safety, the pressures of their job and the difficulty of achieving a work/life balance.”

And that’s certainly partly correct.


Above is a page from the actual report, to which we’ve added the blue highlighting. The reason we’ve added it is that the single factor which was cited by far and away the most officers as key to their intention to leave was changes to their pension.


Yet for some reason the Times leaves that out of their list entirely, despite it being cited by two-and-a-half times as many respondents as any other factor.

It also barely gets mentioned in any of the other reports – there’s nothing in the Mail, just a single sentence in the Record, Express and BBC website stories, and it isn’t addressed at all in the BBC’s two-minute TV news package. The Scotsman front page puts it in the strapline but then says nothing in the article other than in a quote from the deputy chief constable, which also features in the Herald.

Readers might wonder why such a key piece of information would be glossed over in such a manner. And as it happens, we may have the answer to that one:

A DEAL between police and the Scottish Government, which would have allowed officers to continue to retire after 30 years’ service, was torpedoed by HM Treasury.

Talks between police representatives and government officials have been taking place for months. A deal where the Scottish Government would commit a sum in the ‘low seven figures’ to top up the police pension pot annually, while officers made larger contributions in return for being able to draw a pension after 30 years, was on the table.

However, HM Treasury told Holyrood that whatever additional money it put into the police pensions pot, a comparative sum would have to go to the Westminster department to cover its liability as lender of last resort. That effectively doubled the cost to the Scottish Government, and killed the deal.

The changes to police pension arrangements which have so dispirited the force were imposed on it by Westminster two years ago, despite the Scottish Government having been willing to fund a continuation of the previous policy. And while a casual viewer might feel that was a significantly newsworthy facet to the story, Scotland’s media uniformly appears to disagree.

It’s obviously concerning that so many Scottish police officers want to leave the service. However, readers may also feel that that statistic lacks context, and might be better seen in the perspective of how it compares to those in the rest of the UK.

And as luck would have it, we can help there too.

A study published by the Stevens Independent Commission in 2013, which polled over 14,000 serving officers in England and Wales, found that:

“More than half (56%) of the police officers who responded to the survey had recently contemplated leaving the service” (page 2)

So the story seems to be that after Westminster-imposed changes to their pension rights, against the wishes of the Scottish Government, 33% of Scottish officers are thinking about quitting – but a whopping 56% of their counterparts elsewhere in Britain are. Scotland’s police are still 70% happier than those in England and Wales.

Yet half the media isn’t mentioning the overwhelming main reason for Scottish police unhappiness – the UK government’s destructive interference – at all, the other half is skipping over it with a mumbled passing mention somewhere halfway down the article, and absolutely nobody is putting the news into a relevant context. (Most of them being too busy with a months-long barrage of negative stories about the service.)

We can only speculate as to why. As ever, readers will make their own judgements.

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  1. 03 10 15 16:55

    Less than the whole truth | Politics Scotland |...

299 to “Less than the whole truth”

  1. Croompenstein says:

    It’s wall to wall propaganda at the moment, my Dad reads the Record and has fallen for it hook line and sinker. He was going on about this today and about the SG ‘underspend’ of £350m. Also citing that old git Corbyn about the railways and Calmac.

    They are getting through with this pish but thank God we have you Stu debunking this incessant garbage..

  2. Martin says:

    Very similar for most who work in public sector. Take home pay is the same in cash terms as it was 6 years ago plus requirement to work an additional 7 years for same pension. Some have found their pension contributions quadrupled. As always decisions made and imposed by those close to retirement so they remain unaffected.

  3. Robert Bryce says:

    So the attack on the NHS didn’t pan out and the attack on education died on it’s arse.

    Let’s try the Police now, if that fails we’ve always got the NHS & education to fall back on.

    I’m all for holding politicians to account but this is just a fucking joke. These people are single handedly responsible for the continued subjugation of a nation.

  4. Murray McCallum says:

    Terrific article. Very informative.

  5. Lesley-Anne says:

    Damn it.

    Those pesky polis officer types in that country that we can not mention are a damned sight happier in their job than those in England and Wales. How can we NOT report this.

    I have an idea. 😉

    Let’s take all the information from the report and twist the figures in such a way that it makes them look MORE unhappy than those in England and Wales that will sort out those pesky Sc… people from the country with no name out! 😀

  6. Cuddis says:

    Absolutely stunning Stu. The forensic dismemberment. You have played a monumental part of the years in throwing a searchlight on the establishment’s dirty doings and you should be commended for it.

    Great stuff.

  7. cuddis says:

    Jeez, auto-text has made my last post read like I write for the Daily Record. Apologies for that.

  8. Scotspine says:

    We need to broaden the Pro Independence media front.

    Daily spoken word over the airwaves is the way ahead.

  9. Tombee says:

    Duplicitous, scaremongering, downright misreporting. Lack of journalistic integrity. Call it what you want. We’ve been subjected to this for the past two or three years at least and the appropriate disciplinary body does bugger all about it.
    Thank god for Mr Stu Campbell and Wings Over Scotland.

  10. gerry parker says:

    Cuddis at 4:27.

    Jeez, auto-text has made my last post read like I cut and paste for the Daily Record.

    There, fixed that for you.


  11. Auldmack says:

    As always Stu you get right in to the nub that others ignore or leave out, par for the course for Westminster lackies. They still don’t understand that there are others out here in the wide world who do read the small print can sort the wheat from the chaff.

  12. galamcennalath says:

    You know, I am coming to the conclusion that there is only one proper investigative journalist left on these islands. Well done Stu!

    The rest calling themselves journalists are either propagandists or plagiarists, or both!

  13. muttley79 says:

    I cannot come to any other conclusion than that the MSM, led by the BBC in Scotland, are corrupt. When Scottish Labour were dominant, there was never any talk of a one party state as far as I can recall. All these kind of stories are designed to damage the SNP. Imo they omit facts like those in Rev Stu’s article above. Orwell said that bias includes omission of key facts. That is what the MSM do, and I believe it is deliberate. There is too many cases even over the last few years or so where they take a blantant unionist stance.

  14. auld_andalus says:

    It’s a sair fecht Stu but you’re doing a grand job. There’ll be another tenner in the post for you when the time comes around that’s for sure! Good work man!

  15. Clint24 says:

    I sometimes wonder if unionists EVER question the stream of biased bilge that they are constantly fed. My best guess is that they don’t.

  16. Grouse Beater says:

    Every new analysis that appears on this site illustrating the British Establishment’s agenda to demoralise and tame Scotland only increases my anger and detestation of those who voted No, especially those who feel there’s nothing wrong with Westminster rule. They are ‘British’.

    Why should I encourage longer a No voter’s blind faith?

  17. galamcennalath says:

    The National today is no better than the rest ….

    Poor show there!

  18. maureen says:

    Do you know what I like about this website? its that by treating it as my main source of information, I know I will be better informed.
    I read this story on bbc text new and to be honest, didn’t give it much thought at the time
    Came on here to find the same story but put so differently,
    ( with all the facts. Really does put a different slant on the story. Thanks Stu for showing the medias dishonesty, something you never tire of!

  19. Croompenstein says:

    OT –
    Better stay on Stu’s good side tonight as Aberdeen have just been whipped 5-1 at home.. FFS

    If it’s any consolation Stu the arse seems to have fallen out of Barcelona as well.. 🙂

  20. Grouse Beater says:

    When Scotland-haters shout obscenities about a ‘one-party state’ they mean Scotland not governed by Westminster.

    A one-party state is absolutely acceptable it it’s Tory or Labour.

  21. Pam McMahon says:

    Wanted to send this to Twitter, but you seem to be still blocking me on there a year later, for some reason I am still not aware of. Who knows or cares?
    Good contribution to the debate, so thank you.

  22. heedtracker says:

    At least Scottish police are fully aware of what Gordon Brown’s pooling and sharing actually means in the real world.

    Far right Press and Journal, also fact free on Treasury, extremely scary headline today, Police: Staff morale ‘extremely low,’ give the whole list of causes, except the 49% Changes to pension, or usual red and blue Tory savaging.

    If you get the chance, see P&J editorial today as Voice of the North explains UKOK how it’s all down to the SNP “push for single police force in Scotland,” “awful mistakes in the force.”

    They say Chief Constable leaving means “those left behind have an awful job picking up the pieces, trying to rebuild morale and get some consistency, connectivity and operational effectiveness in this stumbling service” you’re all doomed, flee, run, vote NO, blah blah blah and ending with Scots police can be saved from disaster and SNP

    “But it needs beginning soon, or God knows where we’ll be if staff do start to leave in their droves”

    So pretty spectacular Saturday UKOK propaganda/pack of lies blast from P&J but unfortunately the clown show had no comment from God, or the UKOK Treasury.

    Be nice nice to hear from God too P&J. Couldn’t you just do a pretendy one, like you do with your UKOK propaganda?

  23. James123 says:

    The BBC has the same journalistic principles as the Unionist print media, leaving out important facts to mislead its viewers.

  24. Al-Stuart says:

    Hi Suart,

    A big thank you for another well researched article.

    I hope you are keeping all these ready for inclusion in the Wee Blue Book Volume 2 ready for IndyRef2.

    As for Police Scotland – they are of course just the latest in a long line of those at the austerity end of Westminster cuts (let us not forget the fire service, ambulance service, coastguard service et al).

    My understanding is our SNP government had to utilise economies of scale and remove some of the bloat that was the overpopulated senior-rankers from the numerous pre Police Scotland era. Along with other economies such as HR and payrole centralisation. The savings were vital in maintaining front-line officers and effectively a master-stroke by the government. But all is not well and the new police force is by any account failing to bed-in well. The departure of the current chief constable is evidence to this.

    I genuinely believe that we as a country and the SNP as a government should not shy away from having an open discussion on the merits and demerits of the current establishment that is Police Scotland, and how it can be maintained and improved as fit-for-purpose.

    From personal experience, there is a significant amount that needs remedying in the Scottish police service. Many problems pre-date Police Scotland. Some even go back to pre regional police forces to the old county constabularies.

    Any critique of the police service can often attract an irrational response that all is well and proper. The facts, unfortunately are bare for all to see. Witness the recent tragedy on the M9 –

    Not sure who will be in post as Justice Secretary in a few months following the Holyrood election, but the sooner Police Scotland is placed on an even keel the better.

    This is critical. Not just for the morale of serving police officers, and the important civilian support staff, but also vital to the faith that the taxpaying population have in the police. As every single man, woman and child is a taxpayer (VAT for example) then the police really need to be up to the job if Scotland can move to a point where faith is restored in the current battered reputation of the new national police service.

  25. galamcennalath says:

    The SNP are needing to state more often – this or that would be sorted out if we didn’t have WM interfering. Police pensions, apparently, being a case in point. Sounds as if it would all have been in place, had WM not torpedoed it.

    I’m quite sure there are other examples. A list of where WM is the problem by preventing a solution, needs to be publicised.

  26. heedtracker says:

    One of many P&J attacks or what Aberdeen gets. Nothing whatsoever on the actual 49% pension Treasury cause. What a bunch.

    How British propaganda works-

    “Scottish Labour justice spokesman Graeme Pearson said: “This is a damming report which gives an insight into the incredible pressure officers are under whilst their reputation has been dragged through the mud by a summer of scandal.

    “These pressures are a direct result of decisions taken by the SNP government in Edinburgh. Budget cuts, reductions in civilian staff numbers, the closure of services and a lack of transparency from those at the top have all taken their toll on rank and file officers.”

    Scottish Conservative justice spokeswoman Margaret Mitchell said: “The justice minister now has to address these findings head on and not simply hold another showcase seminar pretending to deal with it.

    “If he does not, many of the 33% who want to leave will come good on that intention.”

  27. Croompenstein says:

    the current battered reputation of the new national police service


  28. R-type Grunt says:

    Any serving police officer who is not independence-minded needs their head examined. They should all read this article Stu. Nice one.

  29. liz says:

    Iain McWhirter in the Herald today is just as bad.

    Targetting Michelle T again, even though she has not been charged with anything.

    Complaining about the £150K grant to TinTP but neglectingto mention GCC donating £200K.

    We are going to be bludgeoned for the next few months, batten down the hatches.

  30. Kenny says:

    1. “A comparative sum would have to go to the Westminster department to cover its liability as lender of last resort.”

    The lender of last resort? For printing money at zero cost? OK, for typing the sum on a computer screen! Surely this is fraud?

    2. I wonder if the media lies are the reason behind the stubborn refusal of the Labour vote to fall below 20%?

    3. Stu is doing the job that the “anti-propaganda department” of the Scottish Government should be doing. The SNP needs to set up a savvy unit to do what Stu is doing — or better.

    Or maybe just give him the contract!

    Such lies should be refuted in a weekly colour newspaper posted to every address in Scotland (possibly with a page at the back for “Old Firm” news?!?). Or are we going to have to EVERYTHING ourselves… and then send the bill to Stuart Hosie post-indy?

  31. Valerie says:

    Great job, Rev. I knew there were bits missing from this story.

    Our Police are not as demoralised as those south of the Border. Our Police do their job quite differently up here, as anyone attending big events or protests will know.

    Police down south have a very hard time from their management, and are sometimes conflicted at being directed to use a heavy hand at things like fracking protests.

    The Police get a bad rap, they do have stretched resources, and their pension was always the big carrot of remaining in the job, risking injury, working long hours etc.

    I so admire our govt wanting to try and make up the differences to the pension pot.

    One thing that absolutely frustrates me is that the Scottish govt are not doing enough to drive home the truth of matters like this.

  32. Macart says:

    ‘NEWS’ papers.

    I’m not sure they’re completely familiar with the job description you know.

  33. Darren Ferguson says:

    I honestly don’t know where we would get such forensically good articles if it wasn’t for Wings. Takes the msm arguments and spin apart piece by piece. The way the SNHS, the Scottish police, and our education system are ripped day after day for the sake of petty sound bites on reporting labour is sickening.

    Are the problems with them? Yes but they are trying their best and the front line staff are picking up there daily papers, listening to Kay (with an e) on GMS and the harpy Sally Bird in the evening news just trashing them.

    They deserve our heartfelt thanks for doing a sterling service in an age of austerity (the Scottish Goverement can not offset all the cuts)

  34. Big Jock says:

    Do you think Mcwhirter has been signed up by Cameron as well. Lol

    The only people falling for this are older Labour people who don’t use social media.The other stupid ill informed will always vote unionist anyway.

  35. scotspine says:

    @ R-Type Grunt

    Sadly they do exist, some (I stress SOME) even with Union flag stick pins displayed with pride on their body armour.

  36. Taranaich says:

    It’s exactly the same story with education. Kezia et al made great hay with the (predictably inaccurate) numbers of children who aren’t “reading well” in school. Since education is a devolved issue, then the Scottish government are in complete control – and thus entirely to blame for its failings. So the logic would seem to go.

    Yet a children’s education is not made in a vaccuum: many outside factors contribute to childrens’ upbringing. Things like poverty, welfare, security, and so forth all have an affect.

    Yet in all these tame media reports parroting Dugdale’s views, does a single one of them note that there is a clear correlation between child poverty and education? Or the correlation between stress, poverty and education? Or the correlation between anxiety and security?

    Only an idiot or a liar would presume that Scotland’s children’s education would be completely unaffected by such profound issues.

  37. call me dave says:

    Golly! My eyes dilated and my eyebrows arched markedly as I read the untold facts from the survey, it surprised me!

    Although, from experience, this site is just brilliant at debunking the MSM and BBC selected bits and I should have known better.

    I wonder now if your article will spike wee Wullie, Ruthie and that other one from labour from trying their luck at FMQs with this story.

    Imagine the boys in blue daun sarf are in a similar position, now we all know. 🙂

  38. Big Jock says:

    Scotspine…. Correct they do exist 33%!

  39. Robert Peffers says:

    @Al-Stuart says: 3 October, 2015 at 5:11 pm:

    Great article, A1 it explains how very bad the Police Scotland set up really is at preventing and solving crime. It describes it in such great detail too

    — Except Police Scotland have returned the lowest crime figures ever and a solved crime rate higher than ever before. How do you explain that?

  40. galamcennalath says:

    liz says:

    We are going to be bludgeoned for the next few months, batten down the hatches.

    We need to get out and spread the alternative word.

    They only need to cut the SNP’s share below 45% and encourage people to vote for something else on the list vote, and the majority will disappear.

    No majority in May = no chance of IndyRef2 = no recognisable Scotland in a few years

  41. David McDowell says:

    Let’s be fair now: how can they make low morale in Police Scotland look like the fault of the Scottish Government unless they leave out the bit about the real cause being the UK government’s pension policies?

    That would violate the number one rule of lying propagandists: “Never let the facts spoil a good story”.

  42. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just in case anyone is concerned about the after party entertainment for the Tories at their conference this week. Let me put you all at ease. The entertainment is being delivered as we speak. 😉

  43. Anagach says:

    Labour/The Media – Police failure, Schools failing, Health service failing, Local Government underfunded – Answer vote Labour.

    And thats the message every day for the next 9 month in the hope it will dent the Scottish Government.

    In order to achieve this this they are willing to lie (re local government support from Scottish Government), be very selective in ‘facts’ and ‘statistics’ (1.2% of pupils leaving primary 7 with reading difficulties is not 50%), take out of context and without comparison (see above on the police).

    But will it work? relentless negativity and no actual analysis or offered solutions.

  44. K1 says:

    Anagach, Didnae work on the GE lead up, hasn’t worked on just about all by-elections since…so something has changed significantly.

    Not suggesting resting on laurels…but balancing out the fear about it working against us versus the reality on the ground.

  45. ian foulds says:

    Rev. Stu and all good people commenting on this Site.

    I am hundred percent behind our drive for Independence however, we seriously need to get all this real information into the wider population, as we should avoid that shortcoming in the 2014 Referendum, whereby the MSM dominated (mis)information to us all.

    We need a tv and radio channel together with more traditional magazines (e.g.IScot) and newspapers (e.g. The National) to get the truth out to our fellow countrymen and women.

    ‘More strength to your elbow’


  46. Rock says:


    “Iain McWhirter in the Herald today is just as bad.”

    The Herald remains in business because independence supporters finance it indirectly by buying the National.

    I doubt the National has increased independence support one bit. Only independence supporters buy it.

    When another independence referendum is called, the National will make its excuses and stop publishing.

  47. Croompenstein says:

    @LA –

    David Cameron was pictured in close attendance to the after party entertainment.. 😀

  48. scotspine says:

    @ big Jock

    Sadly, I know.

  49. Big Jock says:

    Make no mistake Holyrood 2016 campaign is underway in the media.

    They are only highlighting devolved issues like NHS and the Police. They dont want to talk about morale in the armed forces, the civil service etc. Because that would send a message saying the UK was not ok.

    Also everything their is a tragic accident or murder in Scotland. Someone is delving into every log Police Scotland make. In other words Labour and BBC have a mole in the police force. A supergrass trying to blame the creation of Police Scotland for any alleged oversights.

    BBC are in full attack mode. Remember Salmond said their referendum coverage was shocking. We are at war with the media. Get used to it. This will not change until we get independence

  50. Dr Jim says:

    I don’t know how many police are pro Independence or anti
    or whether they read the National but I know what they “Don’t Read” I was told this by a police sergeant of my acquaintance who is local to my area

    And that’s the Daily Record

    As far as policing Independence rallies are concerned he said they’re like a sixties peace and love rally and don’t even need a police presence as they’re not considered a risk

  51. Jamie says:

    I would like to thank WOS for bringing this information to the people. It used to be that this information would be put out their uncontested but now so many people in Scotland are getting their news from other sources and are able to get the correct facts in no small spart thanks to WOS.This site really will make a big difference when indyref2 arrives. Keep up the great work and thanks again.

  52. Lesley-Anne says:

    Brilliant Croomps. 😀

    I will not ask how you always seem to be in the *ahem* right place at the right time to capture all the *cough* relevant evidence. 😀

  53. Al-Stuart says:

    Hi Robert,

    It pains me to say this, but crime figures for ALL UK police forces are viewed with well founded cynicism…

    Yes I know these are MSM examples, but I can vividly recall having a furious argument with a “senior” officer who was pressuring me to report a theft by housebreaking as a vandalism to patio doors. This would have resulted is a wrongful massage of officially reported crime figures.

    The problem is not just here in Scotland – dodgy crime statistics was and is rife…

    This is how I would explain the point you ask about. I would add that the discredited crime figures of police forces are a UK wide problem.

    Robert, the thrust of my own post is that Police Scotland have genuine problems and these NEED to be sorted out. It is no use in hysterical accusations that anyone wishing to debate about how to sort out problems in the police force are, for example impugning the integrity of her police officer husband. This was actually posted 5 months ago – and the O.P., will not let that perceived slight go – she continues posting her gripe just a few hours ago today on an earlier thread.

    As a former police officer I find that sort of histrionics unhelpful. Worse by burying the problem, you are effectively allowing tragedy after tragedy to continue due to severe unaddressed issues within Police Scotland. Also this is NOT just a Police Scotland thing.

    One of the constituent forces had senior officer/management problems. Strathclyde Police had to pay out £750,000 of OUR money when that force messed up over the Shirley McKie fingerprint debacle…

    Oddly, or perhaps not, it was Stephen House in his previous job that wrote that cheque out, and it was Stephen House that attended the McKie family home to apologise for Strathclyde Police in person.

    My sincere hope is that the SNP government and Justice Minister can show it is up to the job of resolving the issues currently surrounding Police Scotland. Having watched John Swinney impressively balance EVERY Holyrood budget since the SNP came to office in 2007 I have FAITH in the SNP to resolve the problems that currently beset Police Scotland.

    Robert Peffers says:3 October, 2015 at 5:56 pm
    @Al-Stuart says: 3 October, 2015 at 5:11 pm:
    Great article, A1 it explains how very bad the Police Scotland set up really is at preventing and solving crime. It describes it in such great detail too — Except Police Scotland have returned the lowest crime figures ever and a solved crime rate higher than ever before. How do you explain that?

  54. Dr Jim says:

    Sorry forgot to say, let’s remember only half the Cops could be bothered filling in the survey, we can only guess why, but all the stats mentioned in the survey don’t tell you how many Cops might be very happy here in (the Land with no name) maybe the other half’s ecstatic at the prospect of Independence coming so they can get their pensions back again

  55. Thanks Rev, aye the analysis is actually good.
    I got the report a few days ago as well, (since I’m actually on a Police & Fire Scrutiny Board), and hearing what others thoughts on these surveys is always helpful.

    Unlike the news coverage from certain newspapers, which is most definitely not helpful.
    Something I may dwell upon at the next meeting of that board…

  56. Dai says:

    Well done Rev, for this illuminating article (again),
    What on Earth will they do next?
    Keep up the (very) good work

  57. Big Jock @ 6.30pm.
    Spot on Jock. The M.S.M are the establishment’s greatest asset, and, as usual, will use them to lie to us, but you know what, so far, on the doorstep, it ain’t working.

  58. yesindyref2 says:

    Do we, I wonder, have the most dishonest media in the world?

    Anyway, after the slight disappointment of the South Africa match, it does look as I said in another thread, that Japan’s failure to even bother going for a bonus point (4 tries) could get us through next week, I’m off for 40 winks before, as the media put it, and even the Irish guy getting indoctrinated at the end said:

    THE BIG MATCH at Twickers (guess who’s playing in it)

  59. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Rock at 6.17

    Utter and complete bullshit.
    The fortunes of the Herald and the National are in no way connected. The company which owns them both own hundreds of newspapers which all run on their own merits and turnover.

    I see there are still the dangerously naive posting on here suffering from the delusion that the Scottish Government has a reasonable opportunity through our dependable,balanced and honest press and media to get the truth out and “it should be doing more”.

    Get fucking real!

  60. Kenny says:

    O/T but good news. Huffington Post writes:

    “Glasgow Will Be First UK City To Officially Welcome Refugees”

    “Glasgow, Scotland, just became the first city in the United Kingdom to accept refugees since the onset of the European Union’s spiraling migrant and refugee crisis. The city is expecting 63 Syrians from refugee camps in Lebanon and Iraq, who will arrive in Scotland by the end of October, the Glasgow Evening Times reported Friday. Their admission is part of the U.K.’s plan to take in 20,000 Syrian refugees over five years.”

    However, the figure is laughably low. How can our queen possibly sleep at night knowing she has all these rooms in Balmoral going vacant? Surely anyone her age would want to go out in a blaze of glory by abolishing the monarchy and bequeathing all the stolen wealth to a fund for refugees?

    And yes, Britnat troll reading this, I *would* be prepared to have a refugee family stay in my own home… If you will just ask permission from Pigface, thanks very much, because otherwise they can’t cross [our own Scottish] land and sea border…

  61. Croompenstein says:

    OT –

    The wife just shouted through ‘Healy’s deid’ I thought she meant Jeff but who was it in SLab that said they hadn’t heard of Denis.. was it Kez??

    PS.. in addition to Barcelona it seems the arse has also fallen out of Chelsea Stu 🙂

  62. Ken500 says:

    Brilliant as usual.

    The Police do have terrible shift patterns. If they stopped putting people in cells, especially at weekends, for mild misdemeanours. The ‘charges’ cannot go to court or are thrown out of court, with all the expense it incurs. The Police could have a weekend off. They used to give people cautions, not to do it again.

    Some fire personnel are being trained up as para medics and going out as first responders until the ambulances arrive.

    Murders have over halved. Drink/drugs and gender (males (16) 18-24) commit most violet crime against each other. Total abstinence proper drink/drug rehab counselling would cut crime and a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. People are poisoning themselves.

  63. caz-m says:

    STV News really are going all out on the SNP Bad theme today. Police Scotland also got it in the neck again.

    It seems that STV have decided to stop sitting on the fence and come down on the side of their Unionist neighbour, BBC Scotland.

    Meet the enemy:-

    Scottish Labour, BBC Scotland, The Daily Record and now STV.

    Unionist bastards one and all.

    I just wish STV had a TV License that we had to pay for, so I could tell them where to shove it.

  64. muttley79 says:

    What we are seeing now is the reaction to the general results in May imo. Unionists/MSM were obviously shell shocked by the results in Scotland, and were very quiet for a few months as a consequence. The MSM have clearly been looking for dirt to find on the SNP MPs who got elected in May. I cannot recall them ever doing the same to Labour MPs. Unionist politicians then go with the smears and mud slinging as we saw this week, while the MSM run with their allegations.

    My guess is that unionists/MSM have been very shaken by the general election results and the Carmichael situation. They want to destroy the SNP’s credibility, I believe there is going to be a sustained effort in this regard from now until next May. I think a significant amount of effort will be put into trying to undermine the popularity of Nicola Sturgeon. Put simply, she has become far too popular for the interests of the unionists/MSM, and they will do whatever they can get away with to save their beloved union. I think they will launch a similar personal hate campaign that they used against Salmond, on Nicola Sturgeon now. We know from watching the No campaign during the referendum that the unionists/MSM only have negative, hate filled politics to offer; they had over two years to offer a positive case for Union, and it simply never happened.

    In summary, there is no room for complacency because we are up against both ruthless people and a state.

  65. Capella says:

    Brilliant journalism as always Stu. Without Wings we’d be as ignorant as as the propagandists in the MSM would like us to be.
    What on earth do those “journalists” do all day? The sheer waste of money spent on the BBC news department is a scandal.

    The only conclusion anyone can reach is that they are attempting to manipulate the democratic process by smearing the SNP.

  66. caz-m says:


  67. john king says:

    Croompenstien says
    “David Cameron was pictured in close attendance to the after party entertainment.. :D”

    you got the wrong man their croompy
    heres your culprit
    easy mistake to make 😉

  68. Papadox says:

    There are lies, damn lies, lies of omission and statistics, use of which is probably a trait most of us have used or misused at some time or another. The “establishment” via HMQ, HMG, CIVIL SERVICE, EBC & MSM and their employees have been practicing this black art for centuries, not just in the last few years.


    anywhere that a government is deposed the first thing the new regime does is SECURE THE RADIO & TV STATIONS AND TAKE CONTROL OF THE NEWSPAPERS. Wonder why?


  69. Clint24 says:


    @ Croompenstein 7.09pm

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but:

  70. Brian McGraw says:

    Well done Stu. Great debunking of this latest propaganda piece by the MSM. However like a number of previous comments I’m seriously disappointed at the National not being able to do the basic research to debunk this story as you’ve done .

  71. Brilliant exposé! WoS is once again miles ahead of the MSM when it comes to finding and telling the truth.

    It’s past time for all non-cringing Scots to stop paying the BBC tax, and use the money instead to fund a competent media of our own.

  72. Rock says:

    Dave McEwan Hill,

    “The fortunes of the Herald and the National are in no way connected. The company which owns them both own hundreds of newspapers which all run on their own merits and turnover.”

    They very much are connected.

    Why do you think the company continues to run the loss making Herald?

    Which of those other hundreds of newspapers are loss makers like the Herald?

    They tried it out with the Sunday Herald and when that was successful, continued with the National.

    They are winning both ways – continuing with their anti SNP, anti independence agenda in the loss making Herald by financing it through sales of the National and Sunday Herald.

    Is there any evidence that independence support has risen because of the National?

    Have any of the National’s buyers switched from buying the Herald?

    No, there are milking a market that has no other option.

  73. Milady de Winter says:

    I wish I was a multi-millionaire. I would not only furnish Rev Stu with a team of crack researchers, I would collate his forensic dissections of MSM stories, put them in a weekly newsletter and post them through every fecking door in the country for a year. Absolutely brilliant work and genuinely worthy of the title ‘journalist’.

  74. heraldnomore says:

    That’s it, I’m persuaded now. Vote No next time, Slab next year.

    Roll over and give in, you win MSM

    On second thoughts, got my green and gold shirt on, c’mon aussie

    Fuck right off MSM

    Thanks again Stu, keep on keeping us sane

  75. Kenny says:

    1. muttley79 says: “My guess is that unionists/MSM have been very shaken by the general election results and the Carmichael situation.”

    Good entire post. We know that diplomats and intelligence services are always gathering information and they are quite good at being able to look ahead. I wonder what they are reporting about Scotland, a country where the demand for independence is at a rock-solid 48-50% and absolutely refuses to fall even 1%… I still say 2017 is the year indy comes.

    2. I think it is very important to archive all these examples which are occurring day in day out. The grubby print press can say what they like, but the BBC is funded by Scotland and is being used against the democratically elected Government of Scotland. So an enormous archive will be good for:

    (a) A court case for compensation when Scotland is a sovereign nation with the post-indy Scottish Government the natural successor of the current Scottish Government.

    (b) A chronicle for kids and people of the future to learn about the long road to independence.

    However, I should add one thing. I am probably in a minority of one, but I say…. let things continue the way they are! Based on the principles of “give em enough rope” and “never change a winning strategy”.

    Project Fear is alive and kicking. But it does not work. The population is not stupid and for every one who believes a nonsense in the Daily Record, I say there are four to five who can simply sense, even in their bones, when things do not smell right.

    Why do dictatorships always fall and we hear that none of the population ever believed the nonsense spewed out 24/7 on TV and in the newspapers? People know and Project Fear simply overeggs the pudding. It was Project Fear which actually made me a YESer (before I was largely indifferent). So, my view is that Project Fear does not work — and for every recruit there are two people it turns off.

    Apologies to George Orwell:

    “How could you tell how much of it was lies? It might be true that the average human being was better off now than he had been before the [Act of Union]. The only evidence to the contrary was the mute protest in your own bones, the instinctive feeling that the conditions you lived in were intolerable and that at some other time they must have been different… Life, if you looked about you, bore no resemblance not only to the lies that streamed out of the telescreens, but even to the ideals that [UKOK] was trying to achieve… The ideal set up by the [Red Tory] Party was something huge, terrible, and glittering — a world of steel and concrete, of monstrous machines and terrifying weapons — a nation of warriors and fanatics, marching forward in perfect unity, all thinking the same thoughts and shouting the same [Better Together] slogans, perpetually working, fighting, triumphing, persecuting — three hundred million people all with the same face. The reality was decaying, dingy cities where underfed people shuffled to and fro in leaky shoes, in patched-up nineteenth-century houses that smelt always of cabbage and bad lavatories. He seemed to see a vision of [Glesga], vast and ruinous, city of a million dustbins, and mixed up with it was a picture of [Willie Rennie], a woman with lined face and wispy hair, fiddling helplessly with a blocked waste-pipe.”

  76. scotsbob says:

    Barley a day goes past without the police, or education, or NHS (Scotland) being criticised by Labour via their friends in the media.

    I wonder how many police officers, teachers and health workers will feel inclined towards supporting Labour at the Holyrood elections?

  77. A2 says:

    But Gordon Brown said…

  78. Farnorthdavie says:

    Nice to read all the facts, many thanks Stu.

    Sorry if you already do something like this but I don’t read any newspaper other than the National. Would it be worth your time with articles such as this one writing a ‘letter version’ which you could email to several newspapers?

    They may of course use editorial discretion to dilute your message but it could be one way to present a bit more of the complete picture to a wider audience.

  79. Phil Robertson says:

    Interesting that you commit the very sin that you accuse others of.
    49% of ALL respondents to Q16 expressed concern about the pensions changes. However of those who “indicated a desire to leave the organisation”, the concerns expressed were

    . Not feeling valued or recognised for the job they do (79%)
    . Resources available to do their job effectively (64%)
    . Lack of genuine commitment to wellbeing (64%)
    . Lack of priority for health and safety (64%)
    . Pressure in their job (59%)
    . Ability to achieve a good work/life balance (56%).

    Your piece is “less than the whole truth”

  80. McDuff says:

    I agree with some of the posts regarding the National. Its peddling a “soft“ independence stance while the Herald is ramping up a hostile and aggressive approach towards the SNP thus gleaning business from both sides but actually promoting Unionism. I have ceased buying anything from the Herald stable and now rely totally on Wings to provide me with news.

  81. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Rock at 7.39

    Supply details of the “loss-making Herald”

    Q. Is there any evidence that independence support has risen because of the National?
    A. As independence support has steadily risen I would suspect that a newspaper (and a Sunday paper)supporting independence has something to do with that. It would indeed be strange if it had any other effect. Can you establish otherwise?

    Q. Have any of the National’s buyers switched from buying the Herald?
    A. Yes. I know many

    No, there are milking a market that has no other option.

    Of course they are. They are a business.
    Any other silly comments before I watch the Australians playing rugby?

  82. thomaspotter2014 says:

    10-3 to Ozat Rugby.

    GIRFUY .

  83. Krackerman says:

    Phil Robertson – want some more straws to clutch at there mate? You’re drowning in pish…

  84. Clint24 says:

    @ Phil Robertson

    Well I suppose I could mention:-

    4.1 Positive messages
    The responses suggested a strong and positive connection with their job, their team and their line manager.

    Their Job
    73% of respondents thought that the people in their teams work well together.

    When asked what was the main factor in people’s decision to stay with Police
    Scotland, 30% of respondents indicated that it was commitment to the job.

    Their Team
    Treated with respect by their colleagues at work (83%)
    Enjoyed strong, positive relationships with their peers at work (78%)

    Their Manager
    Treated with respect by their line manager (77%)
    Managers trusting them to do their job (78%)
    Managers supporting them if they have a problem (72%)
    Managers acting in line with the values of the organisation (70%

  85. CameronB Brodie says:

    Phil Robertson
    I’ll let the Rev. answer for himself but do you still believe in ‘business cycles’? Might your view of the Union and it’s benefit to Scotland, be just as ill-founded and simply wrong?

  86. donald anderson says:

    Labour and their users have “weaponised” the Police, Education and the NHS, trying very hard to create a “crisis”.

  87. caledonia says:

    At some point the police, nhs and teachers etc must start to get sick to the backteeth of the BBC and MSN constantly putting down all they do and say

    would love the police etc to come out with a statment calling on the BBC to back off with the constant lies

  88. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Half-time at Twickenham.

    For Sale – one chariot, requires new wheels and axle.

    Apply: Rugby Football Union, Twickenham, London.

  89. Clint24 says:

    It is looking like England are heading home … Oh, wait!

  90. Dr Jim says:

    @Muttley 79

    There’ll be no undermining of the Khaleesi

    I’ll blow the Bastirts up first

    If I’m being monitored it’s all a jolly jest, if I’m not I’m serious

  91. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Math Campbell- Sturgess took you a while tae get intae Wings, hows You & Angel doing , good I hope.

  92. Grouse Beater says:

    Dave McEwan Hill: “Rock, supply details of the “loss-making Herald”

    I have some sympathy with Rock’s attitude to the Herald company owning the National.

    When first mooted the editor made plain many of his proposed Herald staff – drafted for the new paper, disagreed with independence. That was not a good way to start a newspaper dedicated to greater democracy for Scotland. The founding editor has since ‘retired’. Retired is in inverted commas because I’ve no idea if his retirement was voluntary or forced.

    A newspaper devoted to breaking free from UK authority yet owned by UK and beyond right-wing interests is not going to mature into the rebellious example Scotland needs at this time in its history. It’s commercial constraints are too great, certainly not when hard copy papers are dying a death. And the National has yet to overcome the handicap of being dumped on lower newsagent shelves, lost under other titles.

    So far the National has not found its own unique voice. It is not fearless. There is an awkward air of the bourgeois about it trying also to appeal to the working class reader. Other than its front cover it is not bold or adventurous in its prose and content. It is neither anarchic enough, nor scabrous enough to make a decisive contribution.

    Nevertheless, I accept it born as much out of a cynical ploy to grab Yes voters, as much as a realisation the Herald was not serving Scotland well.

    What it is doing is offering an alternative view of events, sometimes publishing the real facts, more often leaving it to guest columnists to offer a contrary opinion.

    Personally speaking, I buy it more as a protest at the lethal right-wing destroying idealism and hope, than an as any sort of intellectual stimulus to new thinking.

    Will it survive to see a second Referendum? Who knows?

  93. Lesley-Anne says:

    donald anderson says:
    3 October, 2015 at 8:41 pm

    Labour and their users have “weaponised” the Police, Education and the NHS, trying very hard to create a “crisis”.

    To be honest Donald I think they have achieved their aim of creating a crisis. Was it not the Labour party who told their *ahem* informed leader and saviour of the union NOT to mention the “S” word when he was in Sc*****d, sorry the nameless country North of Hadrian’s Wall. (using Better Together geography here)

    I hear there is uproar across the world at the very idea that the United Kingdom is now just that ONE Kingdowm … England. The once well respected accompanying country Sc*****d, oops almost mentioned it by name there 🙂 , is now deemed totally unworthy of being named! 😀

  94. yesindyref2 says:

    Apparently, there’s a new political drama coming out called “Dances with Pigs”.

    Anyway half-time for a cuppa.

  95. sinky says:

    No newspaper can by 100% supportive of any politcal party and rerain credibility so The National and Sunday Herald are a god send for the pro indy movement and everyone should buy or subscribe online every day. Use it or lose it. You cant underestimate the value if having a counterpoint on supermarket shelves. I for one have switched from the Herald to The National.

  96. Free Scotland says:

    I intend to print off several copies of this article and slip them into a few unionist newspapers over the next day or so. The Metro might be a good place to start.

  97. Some folk are happy with this article.

    Chair of North Area Committee & Sgts Central Committee of Scottish Police Federation. Personal tweets.

  98. Albaman says:

    CHRIST!!, ops, sorry REV,
    But it you can dig the information out, so could the national press, what’s the “National” and Sunday Herald doing?, they are supposed to favour independence but I think they are avoiding upsetting their bosses, by only printing half truths.
    We should all copy Stew’s article to the National, in order to pressure them to print the full story, and yet, they are bound to be aware of Stew’s disclosures, so what’s holding them back from contacting Stew, with a view to printing it?!.

  99. Fruiteater says:

    Can somebody tell me how the six news outlets mentioned at the beginning all published the same misleading information, i.e. missing out the fact that 49% said changes to pensions had made them think of leaving the force. Who copies whom?

  100. Grouse Beater says:

    The media still ignoring Scotland exists, until it is time to slap us down. The list grows exponentially:

  101. Democracy Reborn says:

    Stu, fabulous deconstruct , as always.

    Is there a single hack out there – Unionist or otherwise – who has reported one iota of this in a balanced way?

  102. cearc says:

    Slightly O/T. The good, old, trustworthy, BBC caught faking it again.

    The Police Federation put a pretty submission in for the Smith Commission. Of course it was ignored same as everybody else’s.

  103. Lesley-Anne says:

    Well it is official folks.

    The Tory delegates really are arriving in Manchester for their *ahem* conference. 😉

  104. galamcennalath says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    “The media still ignoring Scotland exists, until it is time to slap us down.”

    It’s not always malicious. Sometimes it’s just good old fashioned ignorance, arrogance or stupidity. Then again, sometimes it’s ignorance, arrogance, stupidity AND malicious!

    One which sticks in my mind (on your list?) was Kay Burley on Sky News a couple of days before the referendum describing Yes supporters as “campaigning against England”. How warped is that reporting?

  105. Eddie says:

    It’s not just the Police but also other emergency services who are being screwed over by Westminster. There is a lot of truth to the pay more, get less economics that we are suffering under.

    Picture this, you agree to work for 30 years and pay 11% of your wage into a pension that will give you a decent retirement. 15 years into that, you are told you need to pay more and contributions go up to 14.5%. They come back again and explain that retirees are not going belly up quickly enough so you now need to work until age 60, an extra 8 years longer than agreed.

    Still not content, they decide that your pension pot is gold plated and you then see your lump sum agreement getting redrawn until it comes to 50% less than you where promised.

    Work longer, pay more, get less.

  106. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Dances with Pigs” will be starring Kevin Bacon, not Kevin Costner?

  107. DerekM says:

    got to say i am not worried about the onions attacking our public services in an attempt to make a crisis,well its not like its a new tactic from them ,if there was no SNP they would be busy doing the same against each other.

    What they dont get is that we can see right through their crass style of politics and its this behavior that is one of the main reasons they will be cast into political oblivion.

    wow even the head police guy reads wings go yerself son and while you are at it cant you arrest some of those crooks and perverts in westminster for us,it would be a brilliant PR stunt for the police and might win you back the publics respect,no one is above the law and its time you police reminded our political class of this.

  108. ronnie anderson says:

    Is that South African Rugby Ref ah Sth Affric SCOT ” he caught the man under the Shooder” , then sent Farrell aff lol.

    Am Waltsing Mattilda the noo ,I,ll be waltsing wie Paula Rose the morra in Dundee,hope tae see a lots of you,s Wingers there.

  109. yesindyref2 says:

    Well, England got Foley’d. Ironic that the one England player I mentioned early this afternoon as a player I didn’t like because he was sneaky, got a yellow card – Farrell. Maybe the TMO read my posting.

  110. Hector says:

    Excellent piece of investigative journalism…as always on Wings. I think it’s time for Wings Over Scotland and Rev Stu to step up a bit. Have you considered having a weekly video cast of the best of Wings weekly? I think it would spread like wildfire on Facebook….and perhaps Lesley Ann or Paula could add a selection of the most wicked comments?

  111. Lesley-Anne says:

    Erm …

    OOPS …

    England 13

    and erm …

    Australia …

    well they sort of scored one or two points MORE! 😀

    Full time Eng 13 – Aus 33!!! 😀

    Look out folks from the country with no name you have now been *ahem* acquired by the English media as the *cough* NEW England team. 😀

  112. Famous15 says:

    I feel so sorry for the English Police as they are so much unhappier that Police Scotland.

    I feel so sorry for the English Rugby team they are so much sorrier than Scottish Rugby.

    Back in 1975 when Labour first started the process of amalgamating the Scottish Police aided by the Tories things were so much worse but wee Rennie was probably only a frown on his mother’s brow back then.

  113. Free Scotland says:

    Best rugby match I’ve seen in years.

    The red faces match the red roses.

  114. ronnie anderson says:

    Its aw Westminsters fault sending aw they People tae Botany Bay, some of their offspring have come back an kicked ass lol.It will be wall tae wall repeated ooan oor nationl broadcast channel wont it lol.

  115. Lesley-Anne says:

    History is made in the Rugby World Cup tonight as England become the first World Cup hosts to FAIL to make it past the group stages. 😀

  116. ronnie anderson says:

    It wiz a close shave says Wilkinson lol.

  117. There were one or two cops looking pretty glum at Pitoddrie at 5pm today

  118. RenateJ says:

    Enlightening article Stu, as others have said. It’s very disappointing however to learn that News Shaft has run out of money and will fold at the end of the month. They, like Wings, have done an excellent job debunking lies and giving us the news less the SNPBAD BRITNAT propaganda. I was only saying this morning that we needed an indie national radio station and wouldn’t News Shaft guys be well placed to contribute… Is it not high time for an independent national radio station, it would make waking up pleasurable again instead of the unbearable GMS and those ear worm phone ins…?

  119. Kenny says:

    I wonder if England rugger fans say: “I’m a proud Britnat but…”

  120. heraldnomore says:

    On a sad note, no not Twickers, but I see NewsShaft having to close

  121. Cameron will console himself of the rugby at his party conference.

  122. Phil Robertson says:

    I don’t deny that there are positives in the report and, given the recent changes, I think the results overall are not that bad.

    However my complaint is with the misuse of the results in this posting where the numbers presented are, at best, misunderstood or, worse, wilfully misleading.

    If you want an example the claim “that the single factor which was cited by far and away the most officers as key to their intention to leave was changes to their pension” is simply wrong. The number that expressed that view exceeded the TOTAL number of those intending to leave.

  123. yesindyref2 says:

    Got to admit I feel kind of sad for England, they are a rugby nation, and the host nation too.

    Well, on to Samoa for us. That’ll be THE BIG MATCH next week.

  124. Lesley-Anne says:

    ronnie anderson says:
    3 October, 2015 at 10:03 pm

    It wiz a close shave says Wilkinson lol.

    Aye like HE would know anything about close shaves Ronnie. Let’s face it the closest he gets to a close shave is what his dachshund MAIN star in the Santander adverts tells him. 😀

  125. Bob Mack says:

    Commentator on Rugby World cup. “Now that England are out, the English public should get behind Wales or Ireland”.

  126. Big Jock says:

    Will Cameron and the Royals now back Scotland…lol Pity it’s a united Eire team for them, as they would have backed true Brits in Nornire. Dilemma for them.

  127. Donald mac says:

    If Westminster allowed police scotland to claim vat there would be substantial millions freed up to go back in the pot. This is something we need to get prominence in the media with reminders every time there’s an MSN attack on the.police and SNP.

  128. Liz says:

    Hi Stu. I hope you realise what you have done! Since starting to read ‘Wings’, I can no longer just accept what is said on the news. No,now I have to go looking for the original to see what they have left out of their ‘balanced’ reporting. So I read the survey myself- something I would never normally have done. Of course I could have just waited a day, and read your very thorough investigation but there you go.
    Thanks for making me question everything!

  129. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Mrs Betty Mountbatten-Windsor, Henry Wales, David Hamshank, Gideon Osborne, Jonny Wilkinson, Clive Woodward, John Inverdale, Jeremy Guscott, Will Carling, Brian Moore and Lawrence Dallaglio – your team took one hell of a beating.

    So, tonight, we will go Waltzing Matilda.

    Well done the chain draggers.

    We Buy Any Chariot have told the RFU, they’re not buying.

  130. Krackerman says:

    Aye Phil – keep clutching to those ever shrinking straws…… you’re great entertainment so you are….

  131. Big Jock says:

    The mighty empire has collapsed on their home turf. BBC have advised that the SNP government were responsible. They don’t give a specific reason,but hell they must be surely.

  132. heedtracker says:

    Bad luck England. From UKOK media angle, its funny how they never show any royals watching, after their team loses. Very creepy.

  133. Chic McGregor says:

    Cracking investigative work Rev.

    Dare I say an open and shut case?

  134. osakisushi says:

    Media and Bias

    On another website I respect (Calton Jock) I asked if he’d heard of the Act of Separation and Deed of Demission and like me, he hadn’t.
    Long story short 470+ Church of Sxxxxxxx ministers chucked their job, making themselves and their family homeless and without income. They didn’t approve of the State wanting to choose the minister and felt it should be in the control of the parish.
    This was 1843. 172 years ago.

    No one knows about this and I’d bet the Scottish media would pretend any film, play, or book about the event didn’t exist.

  135. Paula Rose says:

    Looking forward to waltzing ronnie (the shed) anderson in Dundee tomorrow along with Matilda and as many others of you that will be there xx

  136. Lesley-Anne says:

    Apparently this was spotted outside the ground where the *ahem* criminals thrashed the host nation of the Rugby World Cup. 😀

  137. Phronesis says:

    The S******* Police Federation submitted an extremely insightful and informative submission to the Smith Commission.

    e.g. …’The S******* Police Federation believes it is in the interests of the people of S******* to have a parliament with all necessary powers to ensure it can deliver the best possible life chances for our citizens, regardless of where they happen to live or how rich or poor they happen to be’

    The submission details the aims for Policing in S*******. Many of the Smith Commission submissions were very aspirational and they should be the basis of a S******* constitution in anticipation of Indyref2 and the inevitability of Independence.

    The Pensions Commission in 2004 reported that the UK pension system was ‘not fit for purpose’-citizens retiring in the mid-2000s were benefiting from generous provision of private and state pensions but the outlook for younger generations was bleaker- and this remains the MO of UKOK.

    The UK state pension is one of the least generous of all western countries and particular groups are poorly served-women, those with interrupted careers, the self-employed. The UKOK government now only works for the 1%,likes zero hour contracts, mass job insecurity and instability, continually preys on the anxieties of the squeezed middle and those in work poverty not to mention the ‘feckless’ poor and is responsible for growing social and economic inequality-hardly ringing endorsements of fiscal prudence or intelligent politics.

  138. caz-m says:

    Another wee team knocked out of the Rugby World Cup tonight by the mighty Aussies.

    Australia never got out of second gear, they didn’t want humiliate their opponents.

    The tournament will really take off now that the minnows are out of the way.

    Let the serious stuff begin.

    Union Jack flying at half mast tonight at BBC Scotland in sympathy for their English Masters.

  139. Macart says:

    Lesley Anne yer a bad wummin…

    … but I like you. 😀

  140. Goving Goose says:

    For Wales, Scotland and England rugby teams, they will not succeed because of the contradition that is the elephant in the room. It’s called the UK. An independent nation state will win, not a part team that wears a differrent coloured shirt once in a blue moon.

  141. Richardinho says:

    I have to say that it’s this kind of article that makes me a regular reader of WOS.
    Of course it’s orientated to a political persuasion that I subscribe to, but more importantly it digs beneath the headlines and seeks out the truth from primary sources and analyses them in an intelligent way.

  142. Croompenstein says:

    Oh where is sensibledave… swing low sensible 😀

  143. Onwards says:

    sinky says:
    3 October, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    No newspaper can by 100% supportive of any politcal party and retain credibility so The National and Sunday Herald are a god send for the pro indy movement and everyone should buy or subscribe online every day. Use it or lose it. You cant underestimate the value if having a counterpoint on supermarket shelves. I for one have switched from the Herald to The National.

    Exactly, If we don’t support the National then it will fold and we will be back to the bad old days of one-sided anti-SNP propaganda on the newsstands.

    It’s a shame to see NewsShaft shut down, but to be honest the National is 100 times more influential with its pro-Scottish front pages on public display each day. That’s where the value is. Not just preaching to the converted. It would be a huge blow if it went under.

    If it gets pushed to the back of a display, anyone buying it can help to make sure a few copies are visible.

  144. Lesley-Anne says:

    Macart says:
    3 October, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    Lesley Anne yer a bad wummin…

    … but I like you. 😀

    Hey what can I say Macart …

    I’m awful …

    but folks like me! …

    Apparently! 😀

  145. caz-m says:

    Ronnie, Paula, Brian, Pete and all,

    I hope Dundee is rockin’ tomorrow.

    “YES City” done it’s bit during the Referendum campaign.

    Your City told the Better Together mob what they could do with their Project Fear.

    Have a great day.

  146. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Grouse Beater at 8.54

    You’ve obviously missed a goodly number of lacerating front pages in the National and the Sunday Herald recently.

    I remain staggered that anybody thinks that having two public newspapers supporting independence is not a good idea. Some of the comments are deeply stupid, others I doubt are from people on this site who are not our friends.

    Let me remind some folk of the economics of this exercise. I have some knowledge of selling newspapers and also of writing and having them printed.

    Of the 50P one pays for a copy of the National 25p goes to the distributor (Menzies usually). Of the 25p remaining a small percentage goes to the newsagent and the rest goes to profit for the producer, payment for journalists and other staff and the physical cost of providing the newsprint and printing on it. Some advertising revenues help

    It was a brave decision and gamble for Richard Walker,his team and Newsquest (which is owned by a huge US newspaper publisher called Gannett) to go with the Sunday Herald and then the National.

    Now, here’s the thing.

    I take it as a privilege to be able to read Lesley Riddoch, Patrick Harvie, Tasmina, Wee Ginger Dug, Gordon McIntyre-Kemp, Pat Kane, Cat Boyd, Mhairi Black, Michael Grey and many others for the amazing sum of 50p per day knowing the shoestring that paper is operating on.

    If some of the muppets commenting on here and many of the thousands who support and joined the SNP were to find it possible to part with that 50p per day and buy the bloody thing just think what it could do.

    We are facing sales of the Sun (now running strongly anti SNP) and the Record of over 230,000 per day and the Mail and Express with the better part of 150,000 and we expect the National to be a great newspaper on sales of about 20,000

  147. Ronnie says:

    @Lesley Anne,

    Need another one for chariot wheels…

  148. Colin Rippey says:

    Brace yourselves, looks like someone’s been briefing against the MP for Edinburgh West. Sunday Herald to “detail” tomorrow.

  149. Tam Jardine says:

    Incredible article Rev. Cuts to the heart of the media campaign.

    I have been impressed with the dignity of Police Scotland during the current politically motivated smear campaign and I was even more impressed with the Police Federation’s submission to the Smith Comission.

    If your idea of the top level of Polis is rooted in days of yore then please check it out – an eye opener.

    With regards to the rugby, I almost needed a new telly having listened to the entire Scotland game with two complete wankheads lauding South Africa a for 90 minutes. Jesus Christ. Waiting for the main feature while minnows Scotland were put back in their place.

    Well, you absolute cretins, these minnows from Jockistan are within touching distance of the next round while your heroes are out on their arse.

    And as for that Welsh ref (whose every decision the commentators applauded) I can’t remember watching a Scotland game when we won with that guy in charge.

  150. manandboy says:

    Great work, Stu. Westminster trying to turn as many as possible in Scotland against the SNP through blatant propaganda. The Unionists in general and the Tories in particular, are a nest of very nasty types indeed.

    There can be no happy ending to this campaign of lies and bile from Cameron & Co. The necessary underlying sentiment needed to sustain the Union is gone completely in Scotland.

    Until Independence, the Tories will continue on this vindictive path, believing as they do that they can con Scotland into turning against the SNP, and then by blocking off the constitutional paths to Independence, Westminster will think they can choke the life out of the Independence movement.

    We have to stand against Better Together everyday and in every way.

  151. Robert Peffers says:

    @Alex Beveridge says: 3 October, 2015 at 6:53 pm:

    ” Spot on Jock. The M.S.M are the establishment’s greatest asset, and, as usual, will use them to lie to us, but you know what, so far, on the doorstep, it ain’t working.”

    Going by a fair sample of recent by-elections results it ain’t working at the ballot box either.

  152. AnnieM says:

    The press in this country are an utter disgrace, we’re bombarded with bullshit on a daily basis, its infuriating.I’m so grateful to the rev for the facts-an oasis of truth in a desert of lies and propaganda, more power to you.

  153. Croompenstein says:

    @Colin Ripye –

    Brace yourselves

    FFS Colin put your cock away ya dirty f*cker

  154. Lesley-Anne says:

    Ronnie says:
    3 October, 2015 at 11:08 pm

    @Lesley Anne,

    Need another one for chariot wheels…

    To be fair Ronnie the fourth bin was en-route at the time the photo was taken I believe … as was the skip for the chariots! 😀

  155. Lesley-Anne says:

    If we can all please take a minute and give our thoughts to a team who thought themselves to be great but sadly these thoughts were only in their minds. 😀

  156. Breeks says:

    Makes we wonder how much pish we’ve been subjected to through the decades without the means to debunk the propaganda.
    For the media, I don’t see any way back. They have gone too far and forfeited their integrity. I cannot imagine their end-game, and having sold out their integrity, their current bullshit propaganda seems increasingly untenable.

  157. K1 says:

    Oh Croomp…ye crack me up 🙂

  158. ronnie anderson says:

    Samoans are famous for their pork feasts, ah dont think they,ll be inviting Cameron lol.

    Boudicea,s chariot,s broked lol.

  159. Lesley-Anne says:



    I’m thinking someone isnon too pleased with a certain Rugby World Cup score tonight. 😀

    To borrow an oft used phrase:

    “It’s our ball and we are no longer playing with you.
    Go home and play amongst yourselves somewhere else!” 😀

  160. Dave McEwan Hill says:


    I still feel we should decide which one to take down and concentrate on them one by one.
    Derision is the best weapon and mist of the press have given us mounds of derisory copy

    Once you establish widely that a particular newspaper is telling lies deliberately you destroy completely its credibility

  161. Lesley-Anne says:

    Think it might help if I actually posted the link I intended to in my last post. … DOH! 😀

  162. Robert Peffers says:

    @Farnorthdavie says: 3 October, 2015 at 8:00 pm:

    “Would it be worth your time with articles such as this one writing a ‘letter version’ which you could email to several newspapers?”

    A total waste of time, Farnorthdavie, and I’ll tell you why.

    In old WWII movies when such as Edward G. Robinson played the part of the hard bitten newspaper editor there was always a, “Tickertape”, machine in the background chattering away and it was connected to a Newsagency by telegraph wire.

    The news agency was a collecting point for World news and the paper paid a steep fee to get the service. By the end of WWII the tickertape machine was upgraded to what had been top secret crypto during wartime. This could print out punched cards, punched tape or plain text including fairly rough photos but it still cost a bomb to subscribe to.

    Now-a-days we have the internet and the news agencies are still going strong but no longer are the preserve of rich business users.

    Editors no longer need anything other than an on-line computer and they don’t even need a compositor to lay out the paper. A Desk Top publishing program and a phone line to the printers who also do not need a massive big print shop.

    Just go to this cite : –

    And you too will get World News on your computer exactly like the editor of a modern newspaper.

    So why buy a newspaper when you can get the news first hand?

  163. call me dave says:

    What! No Porky and Bess at the Twickers final then! 🙁

    It was too good to miss. Other musicals are available.

    Have a good day at Dundee tomorrow all that’s going.

  164. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh dear, that’s W**** off the RFU’s Christmas Card list.

    It should be named the ERFU of course, but for some reason they don’t bother with the “E”.

  165. ronnie anderson says:

    @ caz-m We will do caz thanks ,pity you cant make it with us.

  166. Croompenstein says:

    @LA –

    I’m thinking someone is non too pleased with a certain Rugby World Cup score tonight. 😀

    Oh dear LA are England oot skoot..?

  167. Ken MacColl says:

    While there is doubtless an ongoing campaign to discredit the Scottish Government in our broadcast and printed media I would suggest that much of the similarity in these adverse reports is the result of the absence of genuine investigative journalists and the ease with which the in house jokers can cut and paste rather than think for themselves. What they all choose to highlight and , more importantly what they omit displays a consistency that suggests collusion.
    Recent by election results in council wards – themselves poorly reported – indicate that the poison is not working.

  168. Lesley-Anne says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    4 October, 2015 at 12:03 am

    Oh dear, that’s W**** off the RFU’s Christmas Card list.

    It should be named the ERFU of course, but for some reason they don’t bother with the “E”.

    I’m thinking though that W***s are glad about that happening then yesindyref2. 😀

  169. Legerwood says:

    Phil Robertson @ 8.07 pm

    The figures in table 9 quoted in this article refer to the factors affecting respondents’ commitment to Police Scotland and were based on analysis of written responses to Q16 in the survey.

    The figures you quote refer to the 33% of respondents who indicated an intention to leave Police Scotland that is ca 4000. (see p5 of the summary)

    Those who saw themselves leaving expressed concerns with: not feeling valued etc. The percentages quoted against each of the areas of concern on p35 of the report are percentages of the 4000 or so who saw themselves leaving the service within the next 2-3 years.

    Therefore the 79% who said the saw themselves leaving because they did not feel valued equates to 79% of 4000. Similarly with each of the percentages quoted on page 35 against the various areas that concerned them and contributed to their intention to leave.

    Commitment and intention to leave gave rise to two different sets of data and the set you quoted was a detailed analysis of the concerns quoted by those who intended to leave.

  170. osakisushi says:

    Dave McEwan Hill

    (now running strongly anti SNP)

    That is the problem. They are really anti Scotland. I don’t give a stuff about the SNP but do care about our country. And our country dare not be the SNP alone.

    This is the funny thing. I’ve voted SNP all my life but really only agree with one of their policy things. Despite living in Kilmun and within the kill zone, I’d be happy to see the base turned into a nuclear power station.
    After all, you can only get leukaemia once…

  171. Craig Brown says:

    You are the man Rev

  172. Effijy says:

    The National has run with the same story as all the other right wing media without ant degree of investigation or attempt to
    look beneath the veneer.

    It would be nice to have one unbiased, or even an alternative bias
    to give the truth and democracy a chance, but its readers are
    funding the publication of the Heralds Daily Distortion.

    This story is wonderful Rev, but we need to get this information
    into the face of the No voters by using billboards, adverts, and
    it should have a wonderful effect if it appeared in any Police Service magazines or newspapers.

    O/T Tonight’s Rugby match makes me think that God maybe isn’t English?

  173. call me dave says:

    Ruthie upbeat and claims the Tories in Sc@@@@@@ as the place to ‘come home to’ for the 2,000,000 no voters!

    She’s in charge of the only functioning unionist party in that country that dare not speak it’s name.

  174. Robert Peffers says:

    @Phil Robertson says: 3 October, 2015 at 8:07 pm:

    “49% of ALL respondents to Q16 expressed concern about the pensions changes.”


    What part of the word, “respondents”, can you not understand, Phil?

    First of all not all of 100% of the police force bothered to respond although they were all asked to do so. Thus the whole thing is unrepresentative.

    The returns show most were either perfectly satisfied or not dissatisfied enough to bother responding. Any result is thus utter pish.

    The rules of random sampling, as used in the usual genuine opinion polls, do not apply as there was nothing random about it.

    So it was probably a situation like asking all farmyard animals if they looked forward to Christmas. It is highly likely that the bulk of volunteer respondents would be poultry and the quadrupeds would be totally uninterested as it did not affect them.

    You are as much a dishonest hostile chancer as the hostile MSM.

  175. Chic McGregor says:

    Big sporting result today.

    I refer of course to Saints 5 Aberdeen 1.

  176. Grouse Beater says:

    Dave M Hill: “I remain staggered that anybody thinks that having two public newspapers supporting independence is not a good idea.”

    Happily, that remark doesn’t refer to me. Still, shame it took the owners generations to figure out supporting Scotland’s interests might be in their interest.

    “Of the 50P one pays for a copy of the National 25p goes to the distributor (Menzies usually). Of the 25p remaining…”

    Zzzzz- what?! Oh, yes. What has that got to do with content?

    A question on content: Why would anybody buy the National to learn about the day’s television and radio programmes? Yet it squanders two pages to the schedules.

    “we expect the National to be a great newspaper on sales of about 20,000

    Is quality and originality dependent on sales numbers? Quality depends on writers, and on visual presentation. Why restrict visual originality to the front cover?

    Publish the National once a week as a magazine if time is needed to boost quality and research.

  177. Chitterinlicht says:

    How tyring

    Imagine we were discussing a new constitiution?

    Thank fuck for Wings holding their feet to the fire

    There are better worlds

  178. David McDowell says:

    Also very sorry to see NewsShaft go.

    However they seemed pretty determined to give us something we didn’t really want, whilst not giving us what I think a lot of people did want: something along the lines of the original “Dateline Scotland” satire show.

    Apparently they saw “Dateline Scotland” as just a one-off side project some of them had worked on, but I thought they could have come up with their own successful comedy-orientated format – maybe a cheaper, radio version covering the funnier aspects of topical Scottish life beyond just politics.

    I think if they’d concentrated on being funny and interacting with the Scottish public live on the radio every night they could have made it pay on a monthly subscription basis.

    The live radio show could have been free for everyone, but a percentage of listeners could choose to pay a fiver a month for members-only “extras” like watching the show live as it went out, podcast downloads, etc.

    Online-only radio shows in the USA that use that model and they survive using the equivalent of £5-a-month suscription charges.

    They run their radio shows more like a “reality show”, with “behind the scenes” videos and updates, so subscribers feel as if they personally know the broadcasters and have a real stake in the success of their show.

    I suggested that to NewsShaft but it didn’t even seem to register. I think they’ve already passed the financial point where they can even consider trying a different format.

  179. Kevin Evans says:

    It’s just my opinion but it’s only a matter of time until these public bodies that the media are using to try and manipulate Scottish politics begin to stand up and shout.

    I can’t see the police, teachers or nurses and doctors take being played in this way for too long.

    I can’t believe the media are playing such a risky game in mud slinging the Scottish government by using valued public bodies and misquoting them.

    Dangerous game

  180. yesindyref2 says:

    The Welsh seem to take even more delight in England losing than we do in Scotland. I wonder why.

  181. Cadogan Enright says:

    1. Grouse beater catch yerself on – the National is a powerful asset every day

    2. Just finished my complaint to the BBC – At 8am Radio 4 was discussing Soctlands prospects at Rugby and apparently it would be shameful to Scotland if they crashed out to South Africa today

    At 12pm Radio 4 tonight England’s elimination was described as a noble effort and the ‘S’ word was not used.

  182. Croompenstein says:

    @Cadogan –

    At 12pm Radio 4 tonight England’s elimination was described as a noble effort and the ‘S’ word was not used

    OK I’ll use it… Shite..:)

  183. Grouse Beater says:

    the National is a powerful asset every day

    In our dreams. But it’s needed even in its current poverty-stricken state.

    There’s nothing to beat opening the centre fold of a ‘powerful asset’ to be confronted by radio and television schedules.

  184. Cadogan Enright says:

    Grouse Beater

    I have worked in Irish National papers. No paper sells without a TV page . Catch yerself on

  185. Onwards says:

    Effijy says:
    4 October, 2015 at 12:24 am

    The National has run with the same story as all the other right wing media without ant degree of investigation or attempt to look beneath the veneer.

    It would be nice to have one unbiased, or even an alternative bias to give the truth and democracy a chance, but its readers are funding the publication of the Heralds Daily Distortion.

    This story is wonderful Rev, but we need to get this information into the face of the No voters by using billboards, adverts, and it should have a wonderful effect if it appeared in any Police Service magazines or newspapers.


    That’s the thing though.
    For the most part, pro-Indy websites are preaching to the converted, maybe reaching some No voters via social media shares.

    You mention billboards and ads to reach these people.
    Do you have any idea of how much advertising would cost to have the same reach as the National front pages?
    A tabloid sized billboard appearing daily in Scottish supermarkets.. the equivalent would cost thousands a day. Many of their covers could well seen as official SNP ads.

    The National might not have dug very deeply into this particular story but overall the amount of pro-Scottish content makes it great value.

    And what logic is there to assume it is propping up the Herald? It can’t be very profitable with sales under 20k, and if it starts to lose money it will fold. Even assuming you were correct.. the alternative is the Herald continuing on its own with no opposing viewpoint.

  186. Robert Peffers says:

    @Cadogan Enright says: 4 October, 2015 at 1:35 am

    “I have worked in Irish National papers. No paper sells without a TV page . Catch yerself on”

    Err! Cadogan, Modern TV sets all have TV & radio guides built in.

    You can either access a full list of hundreds of TV & Radio channels at the touch of a button then search for something of interest; or there is an information button to tell you the current programme details of the channel you are tuned to and usually the next again programme too.

    The full guide usually covers around a week’s programmes but cheaper sets may only do a couple of days.

    If you have a recorder either built in or a plug in unit you can also programme that to record another programme while you watch the one your TV is tuned to.

  187. Jamie Arriere says:

    Everything is relative.

    Just when the unionists think they have the Scottish Govt on the run over poor morale in public services, and they are uniquely to blame for it, and they do things much better down south…


  188. Lollysmum says:

    @ Jamie Arriere

    Just an ad on that page-remainder blank

  189. punklin says:

    Thank you, Rev, for the forensics.

    Wings plays such a vital role now. It always did – but as the pressure on the union, much of it self-inflicted by its own stupidity, increases so its lies sink deeper. Thank goodness we have something/someone who undermines them…

  190. robertknight says:

    Rev Stu wrote:

    “We can only speculate as to why. As ever, readers will make their own judgements.”

    SNP Bad! Simples…

  191. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Cadogan Enright 1.35. AH hivna read a newspaper for over three years. I have a Tivo Box other versions are available & ah dont pay the TV Tax ,where,s that fekin remote.

  192. Another Union Dividend says:

    British imperialist press in full anti SNP mode this morning particularly Sunday Mail, Sunday Times and Scotland on Sunday.

    But based on last week’s council results has little impact on voting public.

    SNP 48.1% Labour 27% Con 16.6% Greens 4.8% LDs 2.3%

    Full details at

  193. Grouse Beater says:

    Cadogan: No paper sells without a TV page.

    In your opinion.

    I repeat: No one buys the National for its TV-Radio schedules. There’s nothing brave or new wasting two full pages.

    Wouldn’t have been better, worth celebrating, if the daily Herald had decided it too was pro-independence, rather than dividing its limited energies and fast disappearing cash producing what amounts to a modest pamphlet?

    Why should we remain humble and say, thanks for small mercies? ‘Catch yersel, off’, whatever that means.

  194. Another Union Dividend says:

    A balanced media would also give headlines to Pat McFadden MP, the shadow cabinet Minister for Europe, who has claimed almost £22,000 from taxpayer for renting a second home in his Wolverhampton constituency whilst owning the next door property and renting it out and also owns a home in London valued at £1.2 million.

  195. Schrodingers cat says:

    caledonia says:
    would love the police etc to come out with a statment calling on the BBC to back off with the constant lies

    The MSM would just ignore it, no mention, no news

    The bt crew were rubbish during the ref, it was the project fear wot wun it

    Even though there is no ref2 in the offing, project fear2 is up and running……and it is working, this drip drip drip snp bad will have an effect, no point in denying the power of the traditional media, a far greater% of no supporters get their news from the traditional media.

    If we accept that support for Indy is about 50% at the moment! then the battle is for the hearts and minds of between 5 and 10 % of the population

    It is not Facebook, or bella or wings or even the national who will win this battle……it is us, there is no arguement about this

    We need to launch yes2 …
    We need someone to lead yes2, ….I suggest robin macalpine, I liked Blair Jenkins but accept he wasn’t forceful enough and wasn’t to everyone’s cup of tea
    We need about 8 simple newsprint type newspapers covering a range of subjects, nhs, police, pensions, etc

    I don’t know how much such a newspaper would cost, minimum print runs etc, but that we can crowd fund the salary for a leader of our choosing and the costs of the production of such a newspaper, is not in doubt

    What is also not in doubt is our ability to distribute such literature to every door in Scotland

  196. galamcennalath says:

    Here’s a thought. Sometimes a person or group expose their true underlying believes and attitudes unintentionally or even subconsciously.

    A good example was the way BT monstered the idea of becoming foreign. Grannies would become tearful that their grandchildren might become foreign. Margaret Curran, if my memory is right, got in on that particular act. The problem is, of course, what is wrong with being foreign? Only a group of closet xenophobes could have thought that was a good angle!

    So, now we have Unionists hammering devolved Scottish public services. On the face of it they are trying to cast shadows on the Scottish Government. Again, I suggest, only a group with right wing attitudes to what they see as costly and inflated public services could target them in this way.

    The powers behind this plan are firmly in the new-liberal camp. The message may be being carried by unsuspecting dupes, but the true perpetrators are those with no significant following in Scotland!

  197. Ken500 says:

    20K a day is average sales for a broad sheet. The National Sales are increasing. They are selling out. That is why people can’t get them. The stock is recorded through the till. As products sell out, there is an increased order to meet demand. The National sales are increasing as the Scotsman/Herald/Guardian decline. The Records sales have halved.

    The vote for SNP is increasing and support for Independence is rising. MSM is not being a help but a hindrance to the negative cause. It just annoys people and makes the angry. People in Scotland are seeing through the MSM charade. Every Unionist politician will soon be out of Scotland and Scotland will have better governance.

    The Sun sells because it is cheap. A comic. it’s readers will be those who don’t vote. The electorate know they were lied to, with broken promises and are acting accordingly. The Unionists can squeal like pigs but their days at the trough are coming to an end.

  198. Midgehunter says:

    The days when Kevin McKenna was considered friendly toward Independence or the SNP are now finally over.

    He’s jumped on the MT case and the SNP with both feet kicking hard.

  199. Schrodingers cat says:

    he true perpetrators are those with no significant following in Scotland

    15% vote Tory
    10% vote ukip and libdem

    They do buy into the right wing anti foriegner mantra! no doubt about it

    20-25% vote labour
    Many labour supporters also buy into the right wing narrative, hence the immigrants out coffee mugs produced by labour during the election.

    But not all labour supporters buy into this mantra, and it is those who don’t who are our target in the electorate

  200. Grouse Beater says:

    Midgehunter: The days when Kevin McKenna was considered friendly toward Independence or the SNP are now finally over.

    Read that article, a clean case of turning the specific into the general.

  201. Dorothy Devine says:

    Have to agree Grouse , if the newsquest bunch thought it was a good idea to throw a sop to the independence movement why did it not produce it three years ago and why not include it in the Herald to make a balanced paper?

    I had the misfortune to read the article by Paul Hutcheons this morning and to think I once thought him a good journalist.

  202. Col says:

    That’s it, we have to do something about auntie!
    Sorry but we can’t go on like this!
    They need shut down fucking NOW!

  203. Grouse Beater says:

    Peffers: “Err! Cadogan, Modern TV sets all have TV & radio guides built in.”

    That’s too obvious for him.
    Ken, above, claims National is increasing its sales. That’s good. But owned by the Herald isn’t.

  204. Big Jock says:

    On dear Kevin McKenna and Ian McWhorter falling into line with MSM.They will regret that. Interestingly Kevin mentions what the other 55 have been up to. Is he suggesting a witchhunt just for SNP mps.

    That’s the trouble with soft nationalists. They jump ship when it suits them. These nuvea types are not here for the long haul and don’t get the msm narrative. Divide and rule! Kevin you have fallen for it hook line and sinker. The MP has done nothing illegal, the case is live but you have decided her guilt and the SNPs guilt.

    A few times I have doubted McKenna but this says it all.Kevin if you are happy with a Tory government and anti Scottish Labour party and trying to destroy the prospect of independence then carry on . Fickle and ill informed describes your type. Read some history seee how the empire has always tried this tactic against nations trying to leave. We get it that’s why we stick up for the SNP. It’s our movement for our nation. We stick together for good and bad ,for te cause. Goodbye Kevin go home to the Union and Labour.

  205. Grouse Beater says:

    Now that the media and press have red in tooth and sandals Jeremy Corbyn as example, their new anti-sovereignty campaign is, the SNP is not really left-wing.

    How far will they take that spin?

    Not as left wing as Trotsky?

  206. One_Scot says:

    The bottom line is, everyone now knows that the main purpose of the SNP is to give Scotland Independence and to make everyone’s life in Scotland better, and the only purpose of S*****h Labour is to take power away from the SNP.

  207. Effijy says:

    Read the lead story in some else s’ Sunday Mail -the Vow
    Con’s sister rag.

    All about SNP Ms Thomson have no morals and major police enquiries

    The story in reality is the Ms Thomson has done the decent thing
    and resigned from the party while an investigation takes place,
    unlike Carmichael, Foot, or Rifikin, who IMO are the real McCoy
    when it come to fraudsters.

    The Rag has tracked down the couple who sold their home to Thomson’s lawyer. Thanks to the reporters best efforts the couple are outraged, even though they were Desperate for a sale and this offer was either the only bid in town or the best bid they had.
    If not an acceptable offer, why the hell would they take it.

    The rag tags the sale price on one page at £21K on one page and £20K on the page opposite. They don’t even read what they are writing as they know its just made up fodder for the gulable.

    Please recognise that the Banks who caused this economic crash
    take homes from people who helped to bail them out, on a minute by minute basis.

    Also regognise that there are MPs in each Westminster based party who take payment from the tax payer for a second home while renting out the home they own nearby.

    When it comes to con men, the authors of the nation wide Scam called the Vow should be the focus of a criminal investigation.

  208. Tinto Chiel says:

    All-out attack on SNP and SG in the media today: Indyref2 has begun already for them.

    Can we get Vlad The Impaler instead of Blair Jenkins next time?

    To all Wingers at the Dundee sausage-sizzle: have a great day.

    Ronnie Anderson: plz tell Paul Rose she left her Kirkby grips in my glove compartment. Thanks.

  209. Big Jock says:

    It looks like Mckenna, Mcwhirter and the rest, have given up on independence and gone back to party politics.

    This wasn’t what this was about. It wasn’t supposed to revert to type. It was about the bigger picture and changing Scotland. Without unity independence will not happen.

    Let’s hope the other 45% are less fickle.

  210. galamcennalath says:

    Len McCluskey on Marr, certain that Trident renewal will go ahead. Perhaps he has in mind the huge investment in construction and the jobs that will bring when work being on the new base at Portsmouth or Plymouth?

  211. Fireproofjim says:

    Beats me why the same people complain all the time about the National and the Sunday Herald.
    They may not always slavishly parrot the SNP or Inde line, but what do you want? Pravda?
    No doubt the same people were the most vociferous in complaining about the lack of a supporting paper during the Yes campaign.
    Well thank goodness we now have two.
    The owners don’t really care about the politics. Only if they sell papers.

  212. carjamtic says:

    Most people know the card game trumps and are familiar with the term ‘dug’s chance’ or ‘dug’s life’.

    At the GE the various shades of Tory were left holding a ‘duggy’,one by one they played them and lost.

    The BBC/MSM lost theirs a long time ago,however witnessing the ‘duggy’ of their imperial masters being lost has once again driven them into hysterics.

    For the Tories,The BBC,the MSM it is over,I for one will not shed any tears nor will not miss them,it is time for them to go,all I ask is they show some respect to the people of Scotland as they leave…..then again they know no shame,so I brace myself for one final round of hysterical headlines,lies and half truths……here come Project Fear 2….however we know it is only an imperial firework display….we have the Aurora Borealis.

  213. HandandShrimp says:

    Listened to the radio this morning and they covered MT. Anna Burnside was keen to attack on the issue but slightly to my surprise Tom Harris was very circumspect and Bill Whiteford pointed out that not only have the police not investigated MT they don’t appear to be intent on doing so.

    Tom Harris’s view was that the SNP have played this just about right with MT stepping away from the party until the investigation is concluded.

    The events occurred before selection and have nothing to do with party politics. If there is a case to answer MT will be unlikely to resume the whip and if there is not she will….but apologies from anyone will be as unlikely as the apologies over the dating site nonsense.

    My only real surprise is that the story has such prominence given other events like the US bombing of a hospital in Afghanistan, the death of Healey, the bus crash in Coventry and closure of Redcar with the loss of a couple of thousand jobs.

  214. heedtracker says:

    UKOK propagandists and hacks are just a bunch of idiots on the take/finest writers in the free press.


    I feel defensive about my second home – but my guilt is largely unnecessary
    Ian Jack

    The passion for home ownership we have developed must be one of the biggest changes in Britain’s social and economic history

    Fast forward to SNP vote, wot they can’t get to go down-

    “There’s something chintzy and grasping, don’t you think, about the whole buying-to-let malarkey? It’s the lower middle classes’ unimaginative way of making money without having to work too hard at it. It allows them to bring a bit more to the table at their one-upmanship games during the Saturday night chablis and salmon evenings.”

    UKOK hackdom, stretched to its limit day after teamGB day, as they all grovel red and blue tory style, to blessed divinity that is British royalty.

  215. JaMur says:

    Aye they are on the attack folks. Insane waves of bullshit ahead.

  216. Schrödinger's cat says:

    Can we get Vlad The Impaler instead of Blair Jenkins next time?


  217. Schrödinger's cat says:

    The owners don’t really care about the politics. Only if they sell papers.

    Makes me wonder why no daily came out in support of yes before the ref?

  218. HandandShrimp says:

    Another story is of course the bullying of a Tory activist which appears to have resulted in his suicide. There are now tapes of the bullying hitting the press as the Tory party conference gets under way.

    However, we have to accept that to the No side the SNP are a terrifying juggernaut that keeps on coming at them. The only real surprise is that they haven’t asked Bruce Willis to fly a mission to save them.

    They will keep on attacking everything and twist and distort facts and figures to try and make even non-stories look like the sacking of Rome.

  219. Socrates MacSporran says:

    As a working sports journalist, I, many years ago, was caught, late, high and from behind by a two-footed Kevin McKenna “tackle”.

    At that time he had, somehow, got himself the gig as Sports Editor of Scotland on Sunday, having previously been Editor of “Pravda”, or as it styles itself: ‘The Celtic View’.

    I thought then he was a turd with legs, his subsequent rise to media star has perplexed me – I have still to work out how come nobody at the top in the various right-wing newspapers to have employed him, have seen through him.

    His “support” for Independence during the Referendum campaign did show his one saving grace as a newspaper executive – he can sniff how the wind is blowing, but, he remains a right-wing journo, whose real home is on the Daily Mail.

  220. heedtracker says:

    “My only real surprise is that the story has such prominence given other events like the US bombing of a hospital in Afghanistan, the death of Healey, the bus crash in Coventry and closure of Redcar with the loss of a couple of thousand jobs.”

    You’re not surprised in the slightest H&S:D

    kristinezkochanski 10h ago

    “So what do you want us to do Kevin? I’m not happy about *some* of the revelations regarding the property portfolios of *some* SNP MPs. But the Herald story was a bit off, getting rent from a hair dressing salon you own is not exactly being Donald Trump. And I am not sure why Tommy Sheppard has suddenly become an evil landlord because he registered his interest in his comedy club. I don’t think anybody lives there.

    I would like the Herald to conduct the same exercise with every other political party – examine the register of interests & let us know how many MPs have an interest in property regardless of party. We can move on from there.”

    Or, why we’re winning.

  221. Tinto Chiel says:

    I only said Vlad The Impaler because there’s a lot at stake.

    Crombie on.

  222. Schrodingers cat says:

    WTD on fire, lol
    Deep down in what passes for the party’s soul, there lurks the belief that if you say Scotland three times while turning widdershins, Alicsammin will appear and cast an evil spell on you.

  223. Janet says:

    If the SNP get an outright majority in May, then they have a mandate for indyref2. That’s why the Establishment are doing their nut!

    After indyref1, we were supposed to wither but we held firm. They are terrified of us!

    This is just the beginning, folks!

    SNP/SNP in May, I think.

  224. Bob Mack says:

    I have no problem at all with people owning property.
    No doubt if we could access the accounts of every current MP in Westminster,we would see they all have a property portfolio.
    This also applies to former serving MP’s of all parties.

  225. HandandShrimp says:

    You’re not surprised in the slightest H&S:D

    Nope 🙂

    Every day is “Bring me the Head of Alfredo Sturgeon” day at the HQ of the BritNat crime syndicate.

  226. Onwards says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    4 October, 2015 at 9:30 am

    Now that the media and press have red in tooth and sandals Jeremy Corbyn as example, their new anti-sovereignty campaign is, the SNP is not really left-wing.

    How far will they take that spin?

    This is going to the attack line until the Scottish elections.

    Jeremy Corbyn as the new socialist messiah and personal attacks on individual MPs that don’t live up to an extreme left standard.
    Which they are sure to find as the SNP is a broad church and now has more politicians than ever.

    It’s all about moving the argument away from the constitution and the question of more powers for Scotland – where Labour are weak.

  227. Dr Jim says:

    Quick word on Len McCluskey and his stance on Trident as being about the protection of jobs

    So if loads of new jobs were to be made available because Britain were now to be manufacturing the Worlds deadliest gas poison designed to kill many thousands at one go

    Len would be fighting hard for those jobs would he?

    So that’s Len McCluskey’s criteria then as long as there’s jobs Trident good

    My fat Arse

  228. Grouse Beater says:

    “Len McCluskey and his stance on Trident as being about the protection of jobs”

    Left as bald as that it’s an absolutely cock-eyed logic when it comes to producing weapons of mass death. Had he said, we must look for alternative trades immediately so we can dump Trident, I’d think him wise.

    (Let’s stop using the word ‘destruction’, as if nuclear bombs only destroy buildings.)

  229. Dr Jim says:

    @ Big Jock

    Never trust somebody who calls themselves “Journalist” they are a breed unto themselves and think they are cleverer than the masses and the politicians

    “Journalists” will flip sides quicker than a Prawn on the Barbie if they think there’s an angle in it

    They’re on no ones side but their own, even if they started as young idealistic seekers of truth and justice they turn into cynical money grabbing little gossips and trouble makers, and it’s all

    Just because they can

  230. caz-m says:

    Ruth Davidson is forever doing her shouty thing at FMQs regarding police station closures, not enough teachers, not enough nurses and so on.

    Yet she has no problem with her boss buying a new fleet of Reaper Unmanned Aircraft at a cost of around £12Million pound EACH.

    Or the Brimstone missiles that are fitted to them at a cost of around £100,000 PER MISSILE. (Also fitted to RAF Tornedo jets).

    Priorities Ruthie, priorities.

    Brimstones for Reapers?

  231. Ken500 says:

    The right-wing non Dom, tax evaders buy up the MSM . They can (illegally) perpetuate an system (the Establishment) from which they have most to gain. The right wing Non Dom, tax evaders control the MSM and set the agenda, on the political front. Westminster does nothing about it (as they should) because it sets their agenda, so they can misuse public funds and tax evade, as well.

    Thatcher illegally and secretly handed over the UK Press to the right wing. Allowing Murdoch to buy up the (impartial) Times etc and the Independent MSM News channels. (Sky News). The Murdochs have had to give up major control but still have an interest. They wanted to buy up even more broadcasting interests until the phone hacking scandal. Their greed got the better of them.

    Thatcher gave it over to Murdoch in return for Press support. Thatcher lied and denied it. It was against the Ministerial Code. The former editor of the Times, Harold Evans wrote an article about it, published recently. Murdoch even had the power to conspire an illegal war, to protect the establishment interests. Still at it. There is an alternative Press now which people use, the Internet and ‘foreign’ channels. Many people are not fooled any more.

    Without a free and balance Press, there is no Democracy. Westminster uses ‘D’ Notuces to control the Press. In the UK people are being manipulated with a barrage of right wing views, which are not representative but comes to be the ‘Norm’. A few criminal manipulators are controlling the MSM. Too many people are sucked in. Criminal owners/shareholders use the Press as ‘loss leaders’ for their wealthy business interests elsewhere. The profit is made through major tax evasion of other business interests.

    The Scottish Gov should implement the Leveson verdict. To redress the balance. The Press will not control itself.

  232. John H. says:

    Sales of the National may well be increasing, but are they rising as much as they could? We holiday in the highlands and the local shopkeeper has often complained that he has ordered up a certain number of Nationals but very few are delivered.

    On one occasion only one arrived leading to complaints from customers. Is this a deliberate policy on the part of the distributors? There always seem to be plenty of Daily records, Suns, etc.

  233. galamcennalath says:

    Janet says:

    If the SNP get an outright majority in May, then they have a mandate for indyref2.

    Conversely if the Imperialists can deny the SNP an outright majority, then they know Indy is off the table. And, they have a longer term plan which is to damage Scotland thus making Indy less attractive in the future. Part of that plan is to force a poison chalice of devolution on Holyrood which will cause financial problems.

    The election in May is absolutely critical. The SNP must achieve a majority.

    Having achieved a majority, and given that support for Yes is increasing, IndyRef2 will occur and that truly terrifies WM and the Establishment, as you say.

    They know this election is the pivotal moment on the road to Indy. They will pull out all the stops – so must we!

  234. Bob Mack says:

    The monstering of Ms Thomson leaves me speechless. Ever since I bought my first wee flat,I tried to get it for as little as possible,then try to improve it and sell it at a profit.With a growing family to cater for and more room required over the years it becomes natural.
    I have done this several times,until finding my present rural house which I love.

    When I die,I am hoping my family get much more for it than I paid. That is life,and we all do it in our own way. Even the reporters who wrote this story have more than likely been down the same road.
    They are hypocrites.

  235. Robert Peffers says:

    @yesindyref2 says: 4 October, 2015 at 12:03 am:

    “It should be named the ERFU of course, but for some reason they don’t bother with the “E”.”

    Oh! They have a reason, yesindyref..

    It’s called sheer bloody thieving arrogance.

    For example they claim to be , “THE”, FA and that they invented football so their football association is the original. Yet the entire history of the game all points back to Scotland.

    The earliest historical reference to “fute-ball” in Scotland was in 1424 when King James I outlawed playing it in the Football Act of 1424.

    The earliest properly documented records of an actual official football club is to be found in Edinburgh and the first properly documented rules were written by Queen’s Park FC in Scotland.

    Then a study of the history of the English game, (and many other countries too), shows the instigators to be expatriate Scots and expatriate Scottish/Irish. If you just study the club emblems of English clubs you will see a plethora of Lions Rampant.

    Here’s just a few examples – Bolton Wanderers, Aston Villa, Middlesbrough, Chelsea, Wrexham, Manchester United, Sunderland, Tranmere. Then we had the English game’s sudden transformation after they signed up what was called, “The Scottish Professors”, to teach them, “The Passing Game”.

    These, “Professors”, were due to the Scottish game remaining armature while the English game had become professional and many of Scotland’s best players turned professional in England and transformed the English game.

    BTW: The much vaunted, “Association Football Rules”, used by the English FA were almost a direct rip-off of the rulebook of those laid down by the Scottish Queens Park FC and used in Scotland.

  236. Craig P says:

    For as long as Scotland has a mainstream media Stu, you are going to be needed to help reveal their deceits.

  237. heedtracker says:

    Every day is “Bring me the Head of Alfredo Sturgeon” day at the HQ of the BritNat crime syndicate.

    and as of today the massed ranks of the UKOK media are cheering on the Scottish rugby union team, cheerleaderised by likes of Prince Wills or Harry, gorgeous pouting Jakey Bird, Sally Magnason, Sir Gordon Brewer, or Scotland botherer Professor Smirky of Slovenia

    Adam Tomkins Retweeted
    euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 3 hrs3 hours ago
    let snp scandals mark the end of our politics of piety. my @scotonsunday column:
    34 retweets 40 favourites

    They’ll all be piling in behind Scotland at the rugby now!

  238. Capella says:

    Last post disappeared. BBC looks at Scottish papers and finds SNP under “more” pressure. SoS urging that Paul Monaghan should be investigated.

    The Daily Mail had already attacked him in September after trawling through some old tweets.

    I suppose this will continue through eternity or until Independence, whichever comes the sooner.

  239. Big Jock says:

    The narrative has changed in the MSM. Has anyone else noticed. Before it was Snp bad! Now it’s Scotland bad.

    I swear sometimes that we are back in the 19th century. Where Scotland was only mentioned in history books. Next they will ban tartan and Scottish history degrees.

  240. cearc says:

    John H,

    ‘Is this a deliberate policy on the part of the distributors? ‘

    Probably. If The National was not owned by a major group which publishes 100s of titles across the UK, it probably wouldn’t have got distribution at all.

    Dr Jim,

    ‘Never trust somebody who calls themselves “Journalist”,

    Erm… What like oor Stuart?

  241. Valerie says:

    That is one nasty opinion piece by Kevin McKenna. All nasty implied rhetoric, and very short on anything factual. It reads like something from a troll on here.

    Let’s not be fooled this chubby mutterer is a supporter of independence. Everything to now, has obviously been just trying to chase whatever the current mood is. Which he might say is his job, but his job should also include fact finding and analysis.

    That piece is full of bile, so hope he feels better for spewing.

  242. HandandShrimp says:

    On other political topics, Cameron has failed to impress on Marr and Andrew Neil is sticking the boot into Javid.

    Not a brilliant start to their conference. The press can attack the SNP all it wants but the SNP are a fundamentally sound party. The Tories are shifty, privatising agents of the elite, Labour are in turmoil with Machiavellian back biting and the Liberals are on a life support machine. 2.3% in all the council by-elections on Thursday – the Greens got twice that.

  243. Onwards says:

    This whole issue of trying to out-socialist the SNP fails to deal with one huge problem.

    Jeremy Corbyn will NEVER be elected in England, and the alternative is another 5 years of Tory rule.

    He made sure of that when he said he would never launch nuclear weapons, immediately making the principle of deterrence worthless.

    Whether we agree with nuclear bombs or not – as long as we have them, the leader of a country has to at least PRETEND they could be used as a last resort, or we might as well not have them at all.

    He is going to get absolutely destroyed on this issue in England, if he makes it to the next UK general election.

    It now doesn’t matter when Labour MP’s force renewal of Trident – or if he backtracks later or says he will delegate to defense chiefs. No-one will believe him.

    Personally I think its actually admirable to admit that, but completely politically naive. Millions of English voter actually think that Russia or North Korea could attack without nukes, however ridiculous that is. That’s just the reality of it. Tory voters in England like to imagine the UK as a big strong world power and Trident is *essential* to that image.

    So if he survives to the next UK election, the headlines will make this Michelle Thomson property affair look like a storm in a teacup.
    “Vote Labour tomorrow to leave Britain defenceless”

    Welcome Gideon and another 5+ years of Tory rule over Scotland.

    Labour will be saying.. “oh well.. at least we forced that MP with the property business to stand down.”

  244. Grouse Beater says:

    Valerie: Let’s not be fooled this chubby mutterer is a supporter of independence.

    Stalwarts of the right-wing press will never sacrifice careers for independence. Only Scots can remake Scotland the autonomous nation it once was, and should be again. It’s up to us and no one else.

  245. HandandShrimp says:

    I think Kevin’s daughter was a keen and committed Yes supporter and whatever faults we may ascribe to his particular brand of clickbait for the Grauniard he was genuinely upset for her when it was a No vote.

    He does like writing his clickbait though – even his non-political ones are designed to get the btl clicking over. He is a provocateur – I don’t think it is a given he will back everything we go for but he annoys the No side just as much if not more. In fsct I would say some of the SLab types absolutely detest him.

  246. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Grouse Beater at 12.41 am

    “Is quality and originality dependent on sales numbers?”

    No, but ability to produce and keep producing a viable newspaper is. Have you missed the point?

    As a matter of interest if I was producing a newspaper in favour of independence I wouldn’t employ Paul Hutcheon and particularly not Tom Gordon. Gordon, a Labour hack, cannot write an article without spiking it against the SNP and attack dog Hutcheon has no political insight whatsoever. Today’s Sunday Herald has four articles which are seriously biased against the Scottish Government or the SNP – and I mean biased ie unbalanced and giving very one sided accounts.
    I do hope the change of editor doesn’t represent Richard Walker being forced out to allow a change of balance

  247. Phil Robertson says:

    Robert Peffers:

    Ah! the heavyweight intellectual response.

    >“49% of ALL respondents to Q16 expressed concern about the
    >pensions changes.”
    Maybe but that’s what the report states.

    >What part of the word, “respondents”, can you not understand,
    Don’t worry, I understand what respondent means.

    >First of all not all of 100% of the police force bothered to
    >respond although they were all asked to do so. Thus the whole
    >thing is unrepresentative.
    Interesting point of view. Does the same logic nullify the result of an election if not all 100% of the electorate are “bothered” to vote. More interestingly, your misguided logic is the exactly the same as the Tories are using in their anti-union legislation. I’m sure they will be glad to have your support!

    >The returns show most were either perfectly satisfied or not
    >dissatisfied enough to bother responding. Any result is thus
    >utter pish.
    In statistical terms, can you explain the difference between “PISH” and “utter pish”?

    >The rules of random sampling, as used in the usual genuine
    >opinion polls, do not apply as there was nothing random about
    I think that you’ll find that most polling organisations engineer their samples to be “representative” rather than “random”.

  248. caz-m says:

    Once the Tory cuts kick in next April, it will focus the minds of all those NO voters who will be affected by them.

    I am confident that you will see a swing to YES and Independence.

    Also, growing support for the OUT of the EU campaign in England. I think England will vote to leave the EU.

    This will trigger INDYREF2.

    Keep those YES stickers and posters up. As far as I’m concerned, the YES campaign never stopped.

    In fact, I am just about to put up another poster in the front garden. Passing motorists take encouragement from seeing YES posters, stickers and flags.

  249. seanair says:

    Mail on Sunday letters page full of complaints about the Police.
    All letters from English addresses, well why not it is the Police in England they’re complaining about!

  250. bjsalba says:

    Why did the National story on this link it to the creation of Police Scotland? Since the situation in England is worse and they are still operating regionally, it is clear that the merger has nothing to do with it. Why does the press have such an obsession about the unified force?

    I have written to the National to complain.

  251. Phil Robertson says:

    “Commitment and intention to leave gave rise to two different sets of data and the set you quoted was a detailed analysis of the concerns quoted by those who intended to leave.”

    However, this posting states “the single factor which was cited by far and away the most officers as key to their intention to leave was changes to their pension.” It takes figures from respondents as a single group and attributes them to the subset of those intending to leave.

  252. Lochside says:

    Robert Peffers.. you missed out the most Scottish of English football clubs….Millwall. Yes, that will surprise many..they were founded by Scottish workers from Dundee.

    Their strip was based on the Dundee/Scotland blue and white, with the Lion rampant on the badge and a gaelic motto. The ground was known as the ‘Lion’s Den’ as a result.

    During the 70’s it was common to see a Lion Rampant being flaunted at the ground and at away games. Even in the worst days of their hooliganism in that period, Scots were always welcome as supporters or vistors.

    Nowadays that history has been Millwall have become a repository for some of the worst of English fascist and reactionary individuals, with an unhealthy number of EDL supporters.

    And in common with a general narrative of English history, the Scottish roots of Millwall have been deliberately diminished. Even the recent club histories and Wikipedia try their best to downplay and diminish the Scots origins…no much wonder…imagine England’s best known hooligan club being founded by football mad Jocks!

  253. Grouse Beater says:

    David M HIll : No, but ability to produce and keep producing a viable newspaper is.

    Meaning what?

    The cause of securing full democracy is subservient to commercial interests? I know that.

    The rest of your post is fair comment. I’ve no disagreement with it save for one caveat; Hutcheon thinks a story authenticated if Wings editorial takes the opposite view.

  254. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Much as I hate to write this, but, Robert Peffers, in your post of 11.14am, you are (for once) spouting shite.

    The basis for the Laws of the Game, as we know them today, is the “Cambridge Rules”. These were first codified in 1848, to seek common ground between the old boys of such English public schools as Eton, Harrow, Charterhouse, Shrewsbury and Winchester, now playing football at Cambridge.

    When the Football Association was formed in 1863 – four years before Queen’s Park was formed, the Cambridge Rules were the basis of the Laws of the Game, as we known them today.

    The reason for the names “Football Association” and “Football League” is simple, the middle-class Victorians who ran the game thought of an all-British governing body, and, in the early days the likes of Queen’s Park and Rangers played in the FA Cup.

    However, being English, they tried to dictate to the Scots – picking “Scotland” teams to play “England” from about 1870 on, so, in 1872, Queen’s Park selected a team of home Scots to play England and proper international football was born.

    To continue the fixture, a proper, independent Scottish Football Association had to be formed, the rest is history.

    I believe, once the Scottish, Irish and Welsh FAs came into being, and the game’s popularity spread across the world, the Football Association and Football League should have put English in front of their titles, but, being English and arrogant, they never have.

    Aye well, it gives us something else to dislike them for.

  255. call me dave says:

    Oh dear, it looks like the sales of donkey jackets and Corbyn hats have not taken off in the country that dare not speak it’s name!

    Iain Macwhirter aplogises

  256. Robert Peffers says:

    @Schrodingers cat says: 4 October, 2015 at 8:59 am:

    “Even though there is no ref2 in the offing, project fear2 is up and running……and it is working, this drip drip drip snp bad will have an effect, no point in denying the power of the traditional media, a far greater% of no supporters get their news from the traditional media.”

    Well, Schrodingers cat, I may not be the sharpest knife in the cutlery box but I’m also not the bluntest. When I look at the big picture of what is happening Scotland’s political scene I do so with wide open mind, eyes and ears.

    Here is what a set of open mind, eyes and ears detects.

    A brutal, Westminster Establishment led, openly hostile propaganda assault by all Unionist party politicos and members, the dead, (Establishment owned), tree press and their entire, Establishment owned, broadcasting propaganda machine.

    However, when I look at the results of actual political activity that cannot be effectively manipulated, (though heaven help us the certainly try), I see a quite different picture than that painted by the Westminster Establishment machine.

    The actual relative political situation of sitting Scottish members of the de facto Parliament of England, the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish local authorities. In all those actual elected bodies the support for independence has steadily increased. The latest local council results show the SNP almost sweeping the board with just one, “Independent”, (Probable Unionist in Tory clothing), holding on to a seat.

    At Holyrood level the SNP are also gaining support at a time in office when sitting parties are historically usually being rejected. At Westminster level the only Unionists elected to office have very, very suspect support. One is fighting for his political life in court, another is a claimed socialist elected by a absolutely idiotic tactical vote in a traditional Tory constituency and the third was holding a government office that may yet be found implicated in the case of the guy fighting his case in court.

    A record number of SNP members now sit in the commons.

    So just how effective the Establishment assault is having on the Scottish electorate would seem to me to be entirely counter productive for the Establishment.

    Whatever the Establishment is doing it seems not to be working and whatever the YES movement is doing seems to be doing its job well.

    “Never interrupt your enemies when they are making mistakes.”, Napoleon.

  257. Sinky says:

    Excellent article in The Sunday Herald to-day by Iain MacWhirter who concedes he was mistaken when praising Corbyn

    A lot of hypocrisy in MSM and by SNPbad bloggers regarding Michelle Thomson’s property portfolio.

    Unless you are lucky enough to work for a public body or University or a Bank, the chances are that you will look forward to having a crap pension as the UK state pension is one of the lowest in Europe so if you are self employed you have to provide for up to 30 years of life after retirement.

    With interest rates being so low the only alternative is a volatile stock market or to invest in property which many ordinary working class people do.

    I don’t invest in property as I am in a decent pension scheme (hopefully).

  258. scott says:

    Just watched and listened to a very anti SNP Government on Politics Scotland BBC and Brewer at it as usual.Has anyone else noticed that James Cook is reporting from America did he get promoted for his part in the referendum or put out of the way.

  259. Grouse Beater says:

    Excellent article in The Sunday Herald to-day by Iain MacWhirter who concedes he was mistaken when praising Corbyn.

    Thanks for the link. Pleased Mcwhirter owns up. Along with a few others, I didn’t make that error of judgement.

  260. Robert Louis says:

    See some people complaining about The national newspaper. Of course it isn’t perfect, no paper is, but it is one hell of a step forward for independence.

    Day after day, their front page is hard hitting, and on our side.

    So, occasionally they run stories we might not like, the point is, it only is occasionally. It isn’t perfect but it is all we have, so for heaven’s sake, please stop knocking it.

    Oh, and please be aware, there are those who will post for their own nefarious reasons on here, in support of attacking the paper. Think hard WHY an anonymous poster might do that, before jumping on what at times, seems to be some kind of self destructive bandwagon.

    Knock the National, and you make unionists happy. Very, very happy.

    Why not subscribe to it online, then you never have problems getting it. See what you think, and make your OWN decisions about it, before joining in with others in these silly attacks.

  261. HandandShrimp says:

    I confess to some sympathy with Ian. I thought Corbyn would stick to his guns on Trident, tuition fees and the rest. One can only guess at the pressures within his party and at conference but I think we can safely shelf any thought of a radical Labour Parliamentary Party. They are very much part of the Gramsci style hegemony of power for power’s sake.

  262. heedtracker says:

    A lot of hypocrisy in MSM and by SNPbad bloggers regarding Michelle Thomson’s property portfolio.


    Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 2 hrs2 hours ago
    “I don’t know how these people sleep at night.”

    Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 52 mins52 minutes ago
    I’ve been quick to criticise @KevinMcKenna63 in the past – but he’s bang on the money* this time

    *pun intended

    Duncan Hothersall Retweeted
    Stephen Daisley ?@JournoStephen 13 hrs13 hours ago
    The SNP’s hostility to journalism is truly unhealthy, especially in a governing party so dominant and unchecked.

    John Ruddy Retweeted
    Dr Cromarty #1403 ?@drcromarty Oct 2
    Dr Cromarty #1403 Retweeted Herald Scotland
    It gets worse. @policescotland had to be prompted to investigate an ex-policeman.
    The whole thing stinks

    Scott Arthur Retweeted
    SNPfail LLP ?@SNPfail Jul 14
    @MichelleThomson Try representing your constituents instead of sounding gleeful over possible job losses with wings

    Red and blue tory Britnats wondering why they lost so badly last week then. Also, can one of them please explain to that bizarre lad Kevarage what a pun is.

    That RT on hostility to journalism is funny, like they’re journalists, with integrity and professionalism n shit.

  263. gerry parker says:


    “Keep those YES stickers and posters up. As far as I’m concerned, the YES campaign never stopped. ”

    With you on that Caz, I’ve never taken the stickers or the Wings plaque of the car.

    Always on the look out for Yes stickers and give them a wave or a toot!

  264. Dr Jim says:

    There’s no doubt wee Ruthless Davidson knows her own mind when she says she’s standing up for the two million voters who voted NO

    So the rest of us can Fcuk right off and die

    Wee Ruthless is just as clear on the EU Referendum she’s definitely campaigning to stay IN, unless told otherwise by David Cameron,
    That’s positively a definite maybe then

    But even if it’s bad for Scotland we’re all in it (or out of it) together

    It’s almost Labourite talk (One out all out) remember that

    Strange change of definition of guilt being posed at the moment over Michelle Thomson, it would seem opponents don’t think their case of evil doings by that nice Ms Thomson are standing up to scrutiny now so they’ve decided to move the goalposts to Immoral Profiteering Person and it’s becoming Peter Murrells vetting procedures that are at fault ( Sturgeon and Murrell split)

    So it makes you wonder if that plan doesn’t hold water do they go with the, We don’t like her hair, argument,or maybe they’ll go back to the original SNP Baad complaint which was, The SNP are too smiley

    Off With Her Head

  265. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Grouse Beater at 12.04

    Meaning that a National with a readership of,say,100,000 would attract hugely bigger advertising revenues and hugely more in sales revenues allowing it to provide a bigger paper bringing on board more good quality journalists, a much wider range of coverage with some “human interest” which it needs but cannot be provided without cost and more ability to research with deeper insight into issues and it would have to be taken seriously by the broadcasting media which ignores it (in favour of the Scotsman which incidentally the National is now outselling).

    The Sunday Herald has covered the “Police wanting to leave story” from the Better Together point of view without any of the insight this site has provided. It also has presented a story of robust difference of views in the BfS during the Referendum campaign as some sort of earth shattering explosion.
    This is entirely normal with strong individuals in any political organisation and public unity was maintained

    I think they should be forcefully told by as many of us as possible that this is not acceptable. I will not buy a newspaper that thinks that printing unionist spin is providing balance.

  266. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Peffers says:

    So just how effective the Establishment assault is having on the Scottish electorate would seem to me to be entirely counter productive for the Establishment.

    Yes. That is what see, surprisingly.

    I suspect it’s because of the acutely asymmetrical nature of the battle. Had the Imperialists maintained loyal grassroots organisations then the combination of that plus their media would have kept Indy down.

    However they have virtually no grassroots, few activists, certainly no spontaneous non-party groups (like a challenge to Women for Indy etc).

    The Indy side have extensive grassroots, domination of cyberspace, a fledgling media plus effective politicians now even in the lion’s den that is WM – the assault is floundering as more and more Scots are given the opportunities to see though it.

    I’m optimistic. The must win hurdle is Holyrood in May.

  267. Lollysmum says:

    Billy Bragg singing now from The Tory Conference Mass Protest

  268. thomaspotter2014 says:


    The starting pistol for Project Fear has been fired but this time it’s gonna be called Project Smear.

    Westminster fraudsters are aware that their reckless ways are threatened and all they got is sleazy inuendo-they’ve had loads of practice with that kinda thing-to try and monster the 56.

    Expect 1 or 2 attacks per week till May.

    Don’t matter to them that it’s all bullshit,the MSM headline’s are what it’s all about.

    What we are seeing right now is only the begin of the Establishment assault on anything SNP or Independence minded and now by association all things Scottish-even the very name SCOTLAND ffs.

    Are we to just give up and back in our box?

    No fucking way Jose.

    The terror has them peeing their pants again same as it was with the indy ref poll that put Yes ahead-remember how all hell broke loose after that.

    We must not let the bastards grind us down.Their propaganda doesn’t have the same power as before.

    So chin up and let’s walk on down the hallway to Independent Scotland becoming the real deal.

    It ain’t over for Scotland because it’ll never be over till we as a country are free of these filthy conmen and theives.

    And on a more joyous note:

    Australia-33 Engerland(no more)-13

    Unlucky for some ROFLMAO

    Onwards and upwards to FREEDOM

    Have a nice day!

  269. KraftyKris says:

    @ Phil Robertson,

    The top reason for leaving you quote is:
    “Not feeling valued or recognised for the job they do (79%)”

    If I had a pay reduction or worse pension arrangements then I would feel less valued for doing my job. It does not specify in the report if that was a list from which they had to select from, do you know if changes to pensions was an available option?

  270. Grouse Beater says:

    Dave Mc Hill: I will not buy a newspaper that thinks printing unionist spin is providing balance.

    A fine attitude.

  271. boris says:

    About building a property portfolio. Lucy Alexander (Homes Under the hammer ) has a view:

    ” Lucy is no newcomer to the property market, having bought and sold no fewer than 12 flats and houses. “I bought my first flat when I was 18, and when it made a profit I was hooked!” she laughs. “It’s compulsive. Almost every time I film Homes Under the Hammer, I think: ‘I should have bought this!’, though I only buy places where I know I can add value.”

    The BBC, (through Homes Under the Hammer) actively promotes the business of buying cheap, adding value then selling on at a nice profit.

    Michelle Thomson is a successful business woman and until such time, (if ever) as criminal behavior charges are issued against her she deserves to be left alone by the media so that she can get on with the job her electorate asked her to do

  272. Chic McGregor says:


    Agree with you there.

  273. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Who is the editor of the Sunday Herald at the moment?

  274. Chic McGregor says:

    @gerry parker & Caz-M

    We took our Yes posters out of the windows soon after the referendum…

    … and replaced it with:


  275. Capella says:

    Maybe the scandalous anomaly of Police Scotland (and the Fire Service) being charged VAT of £30 million is also undermining morale. Police forces in England and Wales reclaim VAT. The Treasury excuse is that Police Scotland is paid by the Scottish Government and not Local authorities. But Academy Schools in England don’t pay VAT. They are funded by Central Government but the rules were changed for them. The BBC doesn’t pay VAT.

  276. caz-m says:

    Gerry Parker

    Good to hear from you, hope you are feeling better.

    Agree Gerry, nothing better than seeing a YES sticker on a car window when you are out for a drive,

  277. Dr Jim says:


    I never heard Stu describe himself as a “Journalist”

    I’m talking about the ones who never stop describing themselves as such in order to inflate their importance as they would see it

    It seems like it’s one of those professions where the holder of that title feels the need (unlike a fireman or a postman or any job) to announce it as a claim of superiority over us less well informed mortals and that all doors should open as of right to them and all information and secrets be made available

    I’m afraid my respect for those kind of “Journalists” ceased to exist at a very young age for me when I saw members of that profession stick microphones under peoples faces for reactions to dead relatives or horrific events
    then later the exaltation and glee at getting the right photo to go with it

    Kay Burley recent case in point, watch the irritation displayed when a member of the public doesn’t behave in the way they want, and she’s one of the milder ones

  278. HandandShrimp says:

    You know 10 to 15 years ago Labour ruled absolute in Scotland, MPs, MSPs Councillors and well supported in the press. I don’t recall any of the people now bumping their gums expressing concern over a one party state. Indeed, they used to take pride in things like the old Strathclyde Council having 70 Labour members out of 72 or whatever it was. Fortress Scotland they used to call it.

    Now they are in the doldrums suddenly it is a problem if another party is popular and gets majorities. They must think we button up the back.

  279. Jamie Arriere says:

    This was the link I tried to post last night but the link didn’t work

    Plus doesn’t everyone think there’s a connection between ‘not feeling valued’ and having your pension entitlement slashed? Phil Robertson doesn’t think so

  280. Lollysmum says:

    Livestream from Dundee courtesy of Ian Russell

  281. Grouse Beater says:

    Bored stiff with the predictability of MSM attacks on Scotland’s integrity?

    Here’s my review of The Martian:

  282. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dorothy Devine says: 4 October, 2015 at 9:24 am:

    “I had the misfortune to read the article by Paul Hutcheons this morning and to think I once thought him a good journalist.”

    There are three known methods that the ever present historical, “Southern Establishment”, has influenced its, “Useful Tools”, to do their master’s bidding.

    The first is to recruit them as greedy insiders as members of the Establishment. For example the Monarch by, “Divine Right of God”, granted them a title, honour and/or land in return for services rendered. Hence the Feudal system that still exists today. The second was Bribery and/or corruption, this too still goes on today.

    The third is blackmail as history shows was used to have such as the London Scot William Paterson, who instigated the subscription service that bailed out the greatly poverty stricken English Monarchy/parliament who had run up massive National debts and this led to the start up of the private company, “Bank of England”. He then went on to instigate the disastrous, “Darien Expedition”, that bankrupted the Scottish Land owners who were also the parliamentarians.

    Paterson’s friend was the English Author of, “Robinson Crusoe”, Daial Defoe, who was an proven English undercover Agent working against Scotland in the run-up to the Treaty of Union.

    In these two cases the Establishment held information on their two agents used to blackmail them to do their bidding.

    I wonder what info they have on such as Paul Hutcheons and Kevin McKenna or if it is paid for services?

  283. John H. says:

    Regarding the Michelle Thomson story. In 2009 my house was valued at almost £250,000. Six months later well into the recession an estate agent told me that she had had an offer of £150,000 for it. If I had been willing to sell at that price would the buyer have been profiteering? Or simply buying at the market price.

  284. galamcennalath says:

    boris says:

    Homes Under the Hammer… actively promotes the business of buying cheap, adding value then selling on at a nice profit.

    Michelle Thomson is a successful business woman and until such time, (if ever) as criminal behavior charges are issued against her she deserves to be left alone by the media so that she can get on with the job her electorate asked her to do

    There’s an undertone to the reporting and that is being a “successful business woman”, buying/selling homes, making a profit, ‘wheeling and dealing’ …. should be immoral in the eyes of the left. And the left in Scotland is primarily pro-Indy.

    Therein, I believe, lies the object of the attack. They want to paint an SNP MP as quite clearly not being a socialist. They are attempting to drive a wedge between the ‘broad church’ SNP and the left.

  285. Famous 15 says:

    Bit of light relief on a day full of corruption of and by the “newspapers”

    Picked up my free courtesy copy of the Independent on Sunday and after reading how Springboks smothered the Scots I went in search of the report on the England v Australia game. NOT A WORD!

    Eventually found a postage stamp sized report headed”How did England do?” Go to our website!

    Hilarious but strangely sad.Nationalism is a right bugger.

  286. galamcennalath says:

    John H … We had a very similar experience. A few years ago just as the market collapsed, we were trying to sell our house. It took over two years and we became desperate. We contacted several people who were in the business of buying up houses which not selling, at knock down prices.

    Fortunately, if that is the word, we got an offer from an ordinary buyer. However we were forced to sell for 25% less than we had been originally told to expect and for 15% less than we had bought a couple of years previously. We lost real money.

    I hold a grudge against those who screwed up the economy provoking the crisis.

    I hold no grudge against people who bought a house at the new market value.

    And, I would have held no grudges against businesses who bale people out by offering below market value.

    Property, like shares, can go down as well as up in value!

  287. Clootie says:

    …the skill of the journalist. Cut & Paste a story from another lazy journalist and call it news. It would not be so bad if the first journalist lived up to that name instead of being driven by a wider agenda….propaganda.

    Any unionist party / think tank / nut job can spin a story of “SNP Bad” and he can be certain of it being picked up by the front runners in the unionist cheer leading fraternity (BBC / Daily Retard / Herald / etc…..the rest simply follow with minor variations on the article.

    Once again I thank the Internet and Wings in particular, for shining a light on this collection of low life.

    …and they wonder why their sales continue to fall.

  288. Thomas Brotherston says:

    Really great article Stu. Really blows the grit out of the eyes. There is a desperate need to get information like this into the public domain.We need to point out step by step the lies and distortions of the Westminster cabal. This flood of misrepresentation will increase when Corbyn begins his proposed monthly attempt to resuscitate Scottish labour. His pronouncements will be echoed and repeated ad nauseum by the mouthpieces of the British state in their many guises. We will be treated to an ideological onslaught that will make the referendum cacophony benign by comparison.

    So how do we combat this. We need to engage Corbyn whenever and wherever he speaks in public. We also need as a matter of urgency to energise the best features of the YES movement the engagement of the Scottish public. We now have 56 MPs who can legitimately convene meetings with their electorate on a monthly basis to refute Corbyns claims and to patiently explain the twists and turns of the Tory programm to reclaim Scotland.

    We need to remind ourselves that whatever the dirty tricks used during the referendum campaign we have our fellow scots to win over. There will be no substitute for that.

  289. Helena Brown says:

    John H,back in 2008,yes that year, we decided we would sell the house and move into something smaller, we were on the market up to 2010. We got one derisory offer and turned it down and took the house off the market. We were fortunate, we did not have to sell it would have been good had we but wasn’t necessary, unfortunately the woman over the road was, marriage on the rocks Husband agitating for his share to move on and she needing to move on herself. Couple turned up, looked at both our houses, decided they preferred ours but then vanished, turned out they had found something else. This deal went bad and a month later returned to look at both our houses again. Well they screwed her royally, asked her for a date to accommodate them, asked us, we told them it was impossible, paid her way down what she wanted. I am sure by then she was grateful, business is just that. Not nice just that like shares, house prices can go up or down and depends on how desperate you are.
    I found the headlines this morning ridiculous, no fuss made of people renting accommodation out which we paid for and expenses cheating, oh no, well that would never do.

  290. Robert Peffers says:

    @Ken500 says: 4 October, 2015 at 11:06 am:

    “Without a free and balance Press, there is no Democracy.”

    Whatever gave you the quaint idea the United Kingdom was ever a democracy, Ken500? It is titled, “The United Kingdom”, and thus is a Monarchy with a hereditary Head of State. The botch up of a, “Constitutional Monarchy”, was always a fudge ad a con-job. As long as they retained a House of Lords that will always be the case.

    The real power is the rich financial sector. I do not kow who the USAsian guy was this morning on BBC Scotland, (British Broadcasting Claptrap – Scottish Brach), this morning but he was defending the USA Gun Lobby right to bear arms. He said this – “We are not a democracy, we are a Republic”.

    He certainly has a point but in the case of the UK – we are not a democracy we are a monarchy.

  291. Marie Clark says:

    @ Dave McEwan Hill 1.00, I believe the editor ofthe Sunday Herald is now the Irish journalist Neil McKay.

  292. Yesitis says:

    Great article, Rev Stu. A much needed panacea for this oddly turbulent Sunday.

    I don`t particularly trust the newspapers now, and that sadly includes The Sunday Herald and The National. Too many dodgy journalists that could put an ‘SNP bad’ spin into describing the opening of a packet of crisps. When the feeding frenzy starts they just join in in an attempt to be seen as reasonable, instead of taking a genuinely independent stance.
    And those are supposed to be the pro-independence papers.

    Ach well.

  293. David McDowell says:

    Dave McEwan Hill at 11.52pm

    The “targeting one newspaper at a time” part makes perfect sense.
    How exactly does the “establishing widely that a particular newspaper is telling lies” part work?

  294. yesindyref2 says:

    @Famous 15
    The England match wasn’t over till 10 or abouts, and the Independent is probably printed down south and sent up by train or lorry, so the dealine for printing could have been well before the match was over for the Sunday edition. Hence “see website”.

  295. Dorothy Devine says:

    Mr Peffers , you are of course correct that there are those bought and sold but perhaps the two journalist named have a self interest and there is no need of blackmail?

    Maybe they are SNP, Scotland and Scots hating journalists?

    I read you have been unwell and laid low by previous misfortunes – may you feel better soon.

  296. This has the hallmarks of a vendetta. Someone from the previous BfS board had fed the story, along with copy emails, to the media. BfS is an indy supporting organisation so some person is willing to damage, Michelle, Nicola the SNP and chances for independence to get their own back. Now, I wonder who that cold be?

  297. Phil Robertson says:

    CameronB Brodie says:
    3 October, 2015 at 8:40 pm
    I’ll let the Rev. answer for himself

    Not yet, he ain’t

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