Left hand, meet right hand
Here’s the Scottish Conservatives deputy leader Jackson Carlaw, fuming on the BBC website yesterday about the £1.3m cost of producing and distributing the Scottish Government’s independence white paper:
So, that’s pretty clear. Even though they’ve spent much of the last two years demanding the Scottish Government answer literally hundreds of questions about independence, the Tories don’t believe that it’s worth spending slightly less than 25p per Scot to actually give the people those answers.
But wait – what’s this coming over the hill? Is it a monster?
Nope, it’s Gavin Brown, the Scottish Conservatives’ finance spokesman, fulminating on the much-admired Conservative Friends Of The Union website about the fact that today’s GERS figures make some of the white paper’s content outdated:
So just a second. Over 100,000 copies of the white paper have now been printed and delivered, with a fourth reprint ordered. What is it Mr Brown wants? The same number to be printed again with the amended figures? Presumably that’s another £1.3m, then, instantly doubling the scandalous waste of taxpayers’ money that’s giving his deputy leader such alarming conniptions.
But wait – imagine the confusion if there were two be two conflicting editions of the white paper extant at the same time! The only sane and rational thing to do is clearly to recall all the ones already in circulation and pulp them, for the avoidance of damaging uncertainty.
That’s going to be a pretty expensive job – not only will there be postage and administrative costs, but there’d have to be lots of advertising to get the message out and let people know that their white papers were out of date and potentially dangerously misleading. They’d need advertising hoardings and leaflets and probably announcements in newspapers and on TV and radio.
It’s at least as important an issue as Yes Scotland’s recent £2m billboard campaign, so obviously at least the same amount would have to be spent on those alone, and probably the same again for the other items.
In fact, between the reprint, the recall, the advertising campaign and the physical destruction of the old versions, coupled with paying extra for “urgency”, we probably better budget, what, £10m for the whole shebang?
(Plus, of course, the not-inconsiderable hospital costs for poor Jackson Carlaw in the wake of the inevitable bursting of several blood vessels in a thunderous rage at this dreadful separatist profligacy.)
We have a diagram we think the Scottish Tories might find useful.
We elbowed most of those arses out years ago. Just Mundell to go.
And whatever happened to the venerable Carlaw on MorningScotland (better known as ‘Call Kay with a Knee’)? I listened to most of it this morning, and I don’t remember hearing him, just some Lib-Dem gum-bumper…
Alex Salmond himself admitted in the Scottish Parliament chamber that this is a document containing SNP propaganda Did he? or is that just shite
Sorry, just seemed handy at the time
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X20XIg38GcE
Presumably we will be getting figures any time soon on the cost to Scotlands purse for the reams of lies propaganda and ghostie stories being churned out from the offices of the Scottish Viceroys Office, that comes out of our pockets?
Carmichael makes me so angry I could jump out of a dolls house. He is an arse hole of the highest calibre. The sums of money burned by the UK MOD, and the Westminster sausage machine are pornographic compared to what the Scottish Government has spent on the answers they all shreiked for.
I fear the “Arse & Elbow” info graphic may be way too complicated for Tories.
This white paper was what I voted for.When the FM asked us to vote for the SNP so that he could get the referendum through Parliament,people did just that.As far I am concerned,the white paper and the referendum bill are promises kept.
Well worth the cost,its not what it costs now,it’s what we gain post independence.
Has Jackson been attacked by a ferocious robin again?
It is hardly the Scottish Governments fault if the document is so popular that they have had to go to a fourth reprint.
A cynic might think that Jackson wanted to be able to laugh because no one wanted to read the White Paper. He and the others in Holyrood no doubt had to throw away their white elephant jokes.
What about the cost of the No campaign hijacking council tax bills in Aberdeen this past week? 200,000 letters are being dispatched with bills urging Aberdonians to Vote No – a shameless politicking of an essential government function – and paid for by the Scottish Government to the tune of 80% (that’s the funding that goes into councils since the SNP froze council tax).
As for Jackson Carlaw and his “work of fiction” blustery, we’ve yet to see any credible plan for Scotland’s future from any No campaign party. Yet they are happy to waste public funds on FUD, scaremongering, and downright lies.
The Scottish Government’s budget for 2013-2014 is reportedly £34,588m (source: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/09/9971/20), which means the white paper cost a mere 0.0038% of their spending.
Considering the gravity of the decision at hand and the impact it’s had on the entirety of Britain (and internationally), I’d call that staggeringly good value for money.
The public will feel extremely shortchanged over this, particularly given there’s only one page on Scotland’s economy.
The public feel so short changed over this that the SG have ordered another 10,000 copies to be distributed! 😀 😀 Yeah, it really sounds as if the public is angry. As for Gavin Brown…
The No campaign have got to be the biggest moaners, charlatans, trolls, chameleons, and hypocrites I think I have had the misfortune to know about. Seriously, what the fuck are they playing at? They were complaining for cunting ages about not having enough information and demanding answers, and when they are finally given it, they then complain that it costs too much!!
Apologies for the language, but they really are the most pointless, soul destroying, exasperating people.
Murray McCallum: I fear the “Arse & Elbow” info graphic may be way too complicated for Tories.
Remember not to tar every Tory with the same brush! Some of us are in the Yes camp too! 😉
Half the oil reserves are still there says Gray,Well done Ivan,once again into the breach and all that.Didn’t the previous line state that it runs out in 2017?
Ian Gray on Scotland tonight reminded me of inspector Dreyfuss I think from the Sellers Pink Panther movies lol. Twitch twitch, what is it with project fear types, all twitches and face ticks. Must be the years of big whoppers they have been telling, taking their toll!
Just endured the horror there of a party political broadcast by the “Scottish Conservative Party”, where there was no sign at all of Carlaw or Brown, just Ruth Davidson and….err…George Osbourne and David Cameron!
Hand, meet forehead.
“This would be a considerable spend for a work of fact, but this must be one of the biggest ever taxpayer-funded investments for a work of fiction.
Oh, I don’t know about that: how much did the Iraq Dossier turn out to be? After all, it was pretty much proven to be a paper of lies.
The public will feel extremely shortchanged over this, particularly given there’s only one page on Scotland’s economy.
Did this numpty somehow confuse the words “chapter” and “page”? Because there’s an ENTIRE CHAPTER called “finance and the economy” which runs for 27 pages, as well as innumerable questions about it in the Q&A. The word economy appears 268 times in the document I have.
Seriously, how in blazes can you POSSIBLY defend the notion that a 600+ page document only spends 0.16% of its length on the economy?
Alex Salmond himself admitted in the Scottish Parliament chamber that this is a document containing SNP propaganda, and it’s utterly ridiculous that he should be sanctioning taxpayers’ money for this.”
Jesus wept, a paper explicitly designed as a party manifesto being attacked for being a party manifesto. Only the bloody Conservatives. Or Labour. Or Lib Dems…
A devious ploy indeed and well spotted Rev.
Now excuse me while I have me a serious bout of conniptions.
Never has this quote from Frankie Boyle been more apt than in this period:
“Voting Yes..will consign the Tories to oblivion, you’ll feel like Ripley blasting the Alien out of the airlock.”
slightly O/T
I was watching Grimm tonight and they always start the program with a wee saying or poem written on the screen, tonights was ” We don’t believe , we only fear ” i thought it was rather apt for the No campaign.
Why does Ivan not get tore into them regarding the uk economy, its bankrupt, liabilities exceed assets, if it was a company by law it would have to call in the administrator.
Gray once again managed to say several times we need the shelter of the Big UK economy, why oh why are we not pointing out that the UK economy is on life support with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana skin!!
@jingly jangly
why oh why are we not pointing out that the UK economy is on life support with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana skin!!
Good turn of phrase – must remember that! 🙂
When you hear comments like those of Gavinn Brown, you try to envisage Norwegians saying ‘ya beauty, oil revenues have gone down!’
Honest, you do try and envisage it..
Worrying and uncertainty style music there on newsnicht,ah’m feart noo,not.
Just seen Ian Gray blinking his way thru Scotland Tonight like Herbert Lom.. well worth a look if you havenae seen it 🙂
Another thing struck me was BT are having a go at Swinney et al based on 1 years economic figures right?
Well last year when the figures were better for YES, didn’t Better Together have a go at them for ‘focusing on one years figures’
Come on folk surely we can find a quote of them exactly so?
Oh dear the balanced Jo Armstrong of CPPR on Newsnicht, all by herself with Brewer! Sigh..
@kev
Yes watching that Tory ppb after the news tonight one would be led to believe that they were struggling to find a bunch of Scottish people who would endorse them. It was only wee Ruth and some pub landlord who had a Scottish accent.
@HenBroon
I worked on one of the most recent great waste of monies by Westminster. The Lorenzo IT project. For the first two months everything was go go go then it all petered out. Eventually myself and another chap just sat in a room for six months reading reddit and polishing up our IT skill sets. No one cared as the money was coming from central government so wasn’t part of their health trust budget.
Lorenzo was cancelled without ever being implemented.
Total cost of the Lorenzo project…12 billion
@Training Day
Does it not just tell you all you need to know about them, that they revel in doing Scotland down so much?
If the oil is too much for them to exploit,why don’t the companies just give up and move to the Russian arctic or something?
A friend just sent me this link, of Prof John Robertson’s appearance at the SP Committee. Haven’t had time to view it all, but the immediate impression is stark – the man is facing the Committee with empty seats behind him.
Why didn’t he have any back-up?
Are these sessions open to the public? If so, people like Robertson should not be shy about asking for some visible support. He must know he would get plenty of it.
@bunter
Oh dear the balanced Jo Armstrong of CPPR on Newsnicht, all by herself with Brewer! Sigh..
Is she not a Labour unionist supporter, and is that not a Labour think tank? Fuck off BBC Scotland you corrupt tools and cheats.
what’s this coming over the hill? Is it a monster? Nope, it’s Gavin Brown
Can’t it be both?
Aye Muttley, I’ve had experience of Brown in a meeting so I ken he’ s a cretinous no mark, but I can’t for the life of me imagine any other country in the world where its own citizens would delight in trashing their land. And witness the relish with which Brown declares that next year will be even worse!
@ Muttley
Aye shes from a Labour think tank ” of the regions” in the title. That’s the clue!
Scotland must be the only country ever to find the wrong kind of oil.
Shit out of luck to find oil really and when we did, it turns out to be that BAD oil.
Why could we not have found the oil that is stable like everyone else’s oil, cause it sounds like ours is the only oil that is volatile in economic terms.
But wait its nearly run out anyway – good news ? We’ll be shot of the BAD oil curse. Sadly no
Theres more; State Broadcaster Newsnight Scotland now dismantling Alex Salmonds response on GERS with assistance of same female economist as they always use Joe Armstrong (dismal persona); apparently we’re fxcked based on 1yrs results.
We have similar debt levels to UK but wait for it we have a ‘worse kind of debt’ – so we’re better pooling our resources blah, blah, blah.
Surprised I lasted that long – time to turn off.
BREAKING
Muttley
You know you were feeling low earlier today about a YES…..?
You might want to check out Kevin Pringles Twitter…..
https://twitter.com/KevinJPringle/status/443889047082377216
Looking forward to seeing results of an encouraging new #indyref poll in the @Daily_Record tomorrow. #voteYes
BT are trying to be clever (yes I know) they want people to believe that the drop in oil production is due to a lack of the black stuff when in fact it was a combination of Osborne’s tax raid and several platforms resting for maintenance and refurbishment. Oil & Gas UK have stated they expect production to rise to two million barrels per day in 2017 (back to pre-2009 levels) as new wells come on tap.
Oil revenues are a bonus to Scotland regardless if it’s worth £4bn or £12bn per annum, there are over 200 block areas yet to be drilled with a possible further development of the Clyde basin in the future (but only after we get rid of Trident). Oil industry leaders expect production to continue in the North and West of Shetland for at least 40 more years while the Royal Society of Chemistry predicts a possible 100 years. By that time technology would have moved on to make older wells viable again as vast reservoirs of oil remain in closed wells waiting to be gotten at. Already some the smaller recently closed wells are producing again as new tech is developed to extract the more difficult reservoirs.
Of course it’s not all about oil Scotland has massive renewable capability with huge energy export capability from tidal, wind and hydro sources. With the Hydrogen research centre in Methil I can see Scotland also being at the forefront of helping to create a hydrogen economy replacing the current oil economy in the middle of this century and beyond.
http://ibhouse.net/en/news/north-sea-oil-output-to-rise-by-a-third-over-five-years
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/11/18/north-sea-oil-reserve-sti_n_1101059.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2131258/North-Sea-oil-will-last-for-100-years.html
http://www.hydrogenoffice.com/
Does anybody have Jackson Carlaw’s address? If so, I will be happy to send him a cheque for 25p, being his share of the cost of the white paper.
@bunter
I forgot what CCPR stood for. Cheers Baldo sounds good anyway.
Jo Armstrong nearly out-shone Darling in the nervous twitching department on Newsnight there, disgraceful lies from an “academic” and another shameful episode for the bbc…
The alternative Tory broadcast
Henbroon @ 10:30pm
Spot on.
The BBC clearly don’t give a shit anymore. It’s all or nothing, over six months out from the referendum. This single day’s snapshot of their behaviour – cost of White Paper, GERS, Jo Armstrong – tells me they are panicking and panicking big style.
They are right to be afraid.
A work of fiction with only one page on the economy that is contradicted by the facts. I see. Tories really don’t read much do they?
It’s that Randy Newman song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nGw_vAnqPI
Gordoz
Of course oil price is volatile. Sometimes it is worth al ot of money and other times it is worth a helluva lot more
@Dcanmore
excellent links, thank you.
This biased media crap doesn’t bother me so much these days, because they no longer control the debate or the message any more. We are taking their power and influence away, here and on the streets.
The constant lying by project fear will take its toll eventually and they will be found out. My only worry is the health of these spokesliars as their behaviours, twitches and facial ticks are becoming quite bizarre.
Training Days
The BBC are the Better Together campaign. It is a constant recycle between a handful of Labour people in Better Together and the BBC, with friendly journalists picking up and recycling the same stories with exactly the same format and quotes. Incredible that their papers pay them for this. There is next to no grass roots No campaign beyond local councillors. They rely solely on the media being compliant to get their message across.
In the days before the internet the Yes campaign would be starved of oxygen but these are not the days before the internet. At work people are more likely to talk about Youtube and Twitter than the TV news.
Manipulation, perfect timing for Westminster. So, how come the MOD are saying this?
http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/British-MoD-Predicts-Oil-Prices-to-Reach-500-a-Barrel-by-2040.html
On another note I see that several contributors to the comments Scotsman article on the GERS report are referring to “Westminster papers discovered showing payments to blogging companies with instructions to post for the ‘NO’ campaign on as many independence and financial headlines as possible.”
Does anyone here know anything about this?
@ jingly jangly
Good point, you’re right.
Don’t always get enough time to get all the points in during the broadcast unfortunately.
@Ian Brotherhood
I’ve just watched 30 minutes of Prof Roberston’s evidence. The poor bugger. He strikes me as a gentle soul with a fabulous mind, but unfortunately given the circumstances politically naive and personally insecure. How the BT MSPs manipulated him and worked to discredit his research was cruel and horrible to watch.
Absolutely agree; why was this poor man left to go into this cage of sharks alone? He should have had support.
Great work Ivan, I believe your in Largs Monday night, and I am trying to get my elderly, born and bred London East ender uncle, to go along and take part.
He’s retired up here and his eyes have been opened, and is nearly there LOL.
Keep up the good work!
Why do they always talk about Scotland’s oil then concentrate on NORTH SEA.
What about the Atlantic, Minch, and clyde estuary+west of Shetland? They are avoiding Large areas of scotlands territorial waters intentionally. THEY ARE TRICKING US AGAIN. After a NO vote the rest of Scotland’s waters will be alive to the sound of sysmic test exploration ships. Not looking for oil because they know it’s there, to get detailed geological maps for more detailed planning. Led to believe it could make the NORTH SEA look like a big puddle.
@Ivan McKee –
If you fancy getting carried about on people’s shoulders for as long as you like, please show face in the Counting House, Glasgow, on Friday April 4th, anytime after 8-ish. (p.m., of course.)
@dcanmore: thanks for that, have tweeted it to spread it around a bit.
@Marian, it doesn’t surprise me at all. There is one guy on the BT facebook page who is always going on about the fact that he has a job where he earns about £15,000 a year, yet he is on facebook 24/7. The only conclusion can be that his job is posting on fb.
It’s Scotlands Oil.
“Consequently, a neatly dishonest strategy to keep Scotland in the UK would have been to point out the North Sea’s relentless decline and its potential impact on an independent Scotland’s economy. ”
“However, honesty prevails and along comes Wood and his review on a new strategy on “Maximising Economic Recovery for the UKCS” (MERUK). This suggests that, if the recommendations in the review are followed – and the government has already promised they will be – the UK Continental Shelf (UKCS) “will have the potential to deliver, at the low end, an additional 3-4 billion boe over the next 20 years, worth approximately £200 billion to the UK economy at today’s prices, and at the high end, will put the UK in a much stronger position to get closer to the 24 billion boe potential.”
“So substitute “the Scottish economy” for the “UK economy” and there it is! For the sake of simplicity leave out the UK’s southern gas fields and divide this sum by the population of Scotland and it works out at around £377,000 per capita, or about £19,000 a year. You can buy a lot of free health care, education, unemployment benefit and whisky with that kind of money.”
“For Salmond is almost certainly right to point out that the decline in North Sea output has at least been partly the result of the UK government’s own tax policy. For example, back in the March Budget of 2011, George Osborne, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, abruptly announced without any serious consultation that in addition to Corporation Tax, the supplementary charge on oil company revenues would be increased from 12% to 32%. Worse, while corporation tax on other activities would be lowered from 28% to 23% over time, for the oil and gas industry the contribution would stay at 30%.”
“The net result was that taxation was skewed against the older fields at 81% for historical reasons, precisely on those fields that were most expensive to keep going. As a last insult, the budget de-linked decommissioning costs from the new tax rates and suggested that a cap would shortly be put on such costs for any kind of relief.”
Source of joy
“It was completely in vain that the boys and girls at Oil and Gas UK jumped up and down in dismay, not least because they had been expecting something rather nicer. As they pointed out at the time, there were plans for some 60 new North Sea projects on the stocks, including 35 new fields and $22 billion-worth of investment. As a direct result of the tax changes, 25 projects had less than a 50:50 chance of going ahead, losing roughly £12 billion in new investment.”
“It is largely these projects that Wood suggests should now go ahead, Osborne having finally shifted tax policy back onto a more sensible course. It is thus a significant cause for rejoicing to the lobby group that Wood recommends that North Sea oil policy should be decided by a “cohesive tripartite course” between the industry, the new regulator and the UK Treasury. This should at least give the industry a chance to educate the Treasury about a fact of economic life, namely that if the oil industry says it will walk away from new projects, it probably will.”
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Its-Scotlands-oil-and-it-will-need-a-lot-of-investment.html
Watched old sweaty Brewer’s Newsnight with that regular idiot economist trying to act all anxious and worried, gnashing gums, sucking on teeth but most annoying was how the pair of them cant even say the word oil, as in its not Scots oil, its “stuff”. Wonder if Norway calls their oil “stuff”. What a BBC bunch.
“two be two”, is that a plank of wood measurement in the article?
@ Ian B
That would be our ‘broad shoulders’ carrying Ivan, of course?
@Papadox
It’s not quite so simple: West of Shetland has a lot of prospects, but is mighty expensive to drill – and there have been mixed results to date. Also there’s far less by way of infrastructure (pipelines ect), so a lot of small companies hoping to get some finance from larger partners….have a look at Faroe Petroleum. We need a big find out there – justifying a pipeline – at which point some of the smaller prospects will look worth drilling.
As for Clyde basin – I don’t know whether there’s even been any seismic shot – even if there has, it will need updating, and then it’s a long and costly process to develop a field.
I find all these numbers too complicated to follow or understand , so I just take the common sense approach if we are that poor why are they so desperate too keep us.
I so much want a Yes vote . I live in Glasgow most of my friends and neighbours around here are in low paid jobs or on live on benefits . Nearly everyone is voting Yes . in fact the only guy I know voting No is an Orangeman.
I do have a well to do brother (he was the brainier one ), who is an accountant . I was round doing some “homers” for a few of his friends , they are all voting No except one of their partners .
They seem worried about all this stuff to do with currencies taxes , their jobs .They seem to be taking all these lies in . Too much of a risk is the common answer
I am just worried that these types of people are going to stop us getting the Yes vote . I admit however my hope of getting a Yes vote changes day to day
A classic case of using the facts to sell a lie. With all fields operating, that is none resting due to reinvestment or overhaul, temporarily closed due to spillage (Elgin), or indeed crippled due to ill advised tax raids, the figures would tell a completely different story.
Of course other factors have been at play such as our contributions to UK joint spend and much needed investment in our own infrastructure projects, but all in all to have such a comparable BD with one arm tied behind our back should give people a heads up as to the relative strength of Scotland’s economy. The elephant in the room is just how much further forward the Scottish economy would be without being attached to an economic model which promoted such deficit in the first place.
Gray can smirk and twitch all likes. I’m looking forward to watching the look on his kisser September 19th.
peter
your post is entirely unacceptable on this forum
not cool Peter not cool man
what about deleting that rev?
@jingly jangly 12 March, 2014 at 10:55 pm
Gray once again managed to say several times we need the shelter of the Big UK economy, why oh why are we not pointing out that the UK economy is on life support with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana skin!!
Remember this is the foundation those broad shoulders are resting on!
@Gonnaejustsayaye with the well to do accountant brother
Get a hold of the white paper if you don’t already have it. The PDF will do fine.
Ask your brother to look over the sections on the economy and get him to debate them with you.
Yes, echo bjsalba above, work on your brother to open his eyes. Point him to Bus. for Scotland, and once he is begins to see the truth it is for him to work on his colleagues, and of course you if you’re doing your homers. Even if you can get them to look elswhere than the MSM they may move to DK, and that is a one way street.
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp98/RP98-001.PDF – Pg 10.
The White Paper for the 1997 Devo referendum cost about £720,000 to produce which is about £1.1mn in today’s cash.
Just a thought.
‘john king says:
13 March, 2014 at 6:24 am
not cool Peter not cool man
what about deleting that rev?’
John – I am sure Peter got the keys confused and meant to say – ‘I shall try very, very hard to ensure everybody is aware of the State rogues’ skulduggery and that we shall therefore have a ‘Yes’ vote and can treat those mentioned with the contempt they deserve and we shall move onward and upward’
Ian
Top Tip
Students: Inhibit the impulse to encourage others to find data, quotes, documents, audio, video etc. in order to; construct well reasoned arguments, reveal knife sharp analysis & publish the results on your behalf.
Instead, how about getting out of bed before the crack of noon & trying to do the bloody work yourself?
kininvie
Seismic data was gathered in the Clyde. One of my colleagues in the oil industry worked on the seismic ships, he said the data was very encouraging.
Pity about the Clyde basin oilfield potential, seems that the records on the seismic studies are no longer available, or so it is rumoured!
And of course the Unionists have successfully managed to get us all talking about the lower production and so lower earnings from oil – this past year only, as if the non-recovered oil of the past year has vanished. The lower production is until we are independent the better?
Is electrical power generation and export down – Oh we don’t receive income from that anyway, a Union benefit. Tourism? Whisky? Timber, food, fishing exports, life sciences?
@Gonnaejustsayaye
Youre doing homers….I have updated ATOS 🙂
@Murray McCallum
I fear the “Arse & Elbow” info graphic may be way too complicated for Tories.
I take your point, to he uninitiated all that visible musculature does look daunting. However I basically taught myself how to demystify it. In mice using Green’s Anatomy of the Rat. Humans are very similar with only minor differences (no sartorius in the mouse for eg).
I call on the Scottish Government to recall and pulp all its previous editions of “Scotland’s Future”.
The way it goes with stamps, my First Edition will be worth a small fortune in a few years 🙂