The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Labour demand £19bn of cuts in Scotland

Posted on March 07, 2012 by

The desperate attempts of the Unionist parties to portray Scotland as a country too poor to survive on its own are nothing if not inventive. One might think that the publication of the latest GERS report, showing that Scotland contributes more to the UK Treasury than it receives back in public spending, would be pretty hard to turn into a plus point for the Union. But while Michael Moore’s strategy on behalf of the Con/Dem coalition has been simply to put his fingers in his ears and insist that Scotland would be poorer outside the United Kingdom in flat-out contradiction of the official facts, the Labour “opposition” are trying a rather different spin.

Scottish Labour’s finance spokesman and failed leadership contender Ken Macintosh issued a press release today in which he made the bizarre claim that the GERS figures somehow constituted a positive case for the Union:

“The GERS report published this morning demonstrates the significant benefit to Scotland of being part of the UK. The report shows that public expenditure in Scotland was last year between £11bn and £19bn higher than all the taxes generated in Scotland, including North Sea oil.”

But let’s look at that for a second, and generously gloss over the fact that Macintosh’s figures apparently have an 73% margin of error. (Is it £11bn or £19bn, Ken? That’d be a fairly important difference.) What Macintosh is actually saying is that Scotland, taken as part of the UK as a whole, ran a budget deficit in 2009/10.

Now, in itself (and leaving aside the comically wide range of Macintosh’s “figures”) that’s true. But then, almost every Western economy currently runs a budget deficit. The UK as a whole ran a vast budget deficit over the same period – just under £152bn – and has been doing so for many years, which is why we’re currently experiencing massive cuts, imposed by the Tories and Lib Dems but backed (and largely caused) by Labour. And since the Scottish Government has no borrowing powers and has to balance its own block grant, every penny of that £11bn (or £19bn) “Scottish” deficit in 2009/10 was actually run up by Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems at Westminster.

What McIntosh is in fact saying, then, is that Scotland can’t afford to stay in the UK. The logic of his position is that he’s calling for a further £11bn (or £19bn) of public-spending cuts in Scotland – to be imposed by Westminster, as Holyrood’s budget is fixed and wasn’t responsible for the deficit – so that we’ll be living within our means.

The SNP, on the other hand, would prefer Scotland to control its own finances, make huge savings by cutting things that the Scottish people don’t want (like Trident and PFI), and take full advantage of the likely increase in oil prices over the coming years to pay down our debts and fund investment in renewable resources for the future.

We don’t think it’s hard to spot which of those is the “positive” option.

8 to “Labour demand £19bn of cuts in Scotland”

  1. Peter A Bell says:

    The UK as a whole ran a vast budget deficit over the same period – just under £152m…

    Billion?

    Reply
  2. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Whoops. Fixed!

    Reply
  3. Nothing less than expected,but if one came up with the truth not contaminated by their party politics,that would be real news,ha ha ha .

    Reply
  4. Stevie Cosmic says:

    "The report shows that public expenditure in Scotland was last year between £11bn and £19bn higher than all the taxes generated in Scotland, including North Sea oil.”

    I have a few issues with this wilfully misleading statement:
     
    1. North Sea Oil revenues and taxes don't accrue to the Scottish account. They never have. They accrue to 'Terra ex Regio' , that other part of the UK that isn't on the map, and then duly flow to Westminster. Both John Jappy and Nial Aslen, whether you agree with their vastly different politics, have both shown (with references), that taxes, levies, CT et al collected from North Sea resources (even the the levies paid by Scottish refineries) are deliberately kept off the books, while somewhat bizarrely, the entire cost for the maintenace of Trident is charged to the Scottish account…..go figure Ken.

    2. The true figures for North Sea Oil and Gas are difficult to come by. They  are out there though…..if you know where to look. So, Ken, mate, if you are implying that Scotland's budget deficit would cripple this small country of 5 million people if it were independent, have a gander at the following figures from a Commons debate last November, courtesy Nicholas Soames. They paint an altogether different picture of an independent Scotland with control over it's geographical share of North Sea Oil revenues:

    "The taxes forecast to be raised from the industry in 2011-12 include some £6 billion in income tax, national insurance contributions and corporation tax paid by the supply chain companies, with an additional £11 billion from taxes on production itself. That amounts to 25% of all the corporation tax received by the Exchequer. The production of indigenous oil and gas improved the balance of payments by £35 billion in 2011, thus halving the trade deficit, and the supply chain added another £5 billion to £6 billion with exports of oilfield goods and services. Incidentally, that is an aspect of the industry that is doing extremely well here and overseas, and it is flying the flag for Britain effectively."
    link to publications.parliament.uk
    I can only imagine that folks like Macintosh make this stuff up because they truly hate Scotland. Why else would they attempt to hobble their own country at every possible opportunity just to keep themselves in a job?
     

    Reply
  5. MajorBloodnok says:

    Looking at Ken McIntosh's press release it is so full of misrepresentations it's difficult to know where to start.
    The £11bn and/or £19bn disparity between all public expenditure (which includes Scottish and UK government expenditire in Scotland, as well as our per-capita share of UK debt servicing) and the revenues raised in Scotland depends on whether you include our geographical North Sea Oil revenues (i.e. £8bn oil revenue for 2010/2011).
    But as you indicate it's actually about the deficit; and the important conclusion of GERS is that Scotland's deficit, if allowed a geographical share of the oil revenues, would be LESS than the equivalent UK deficit which absorbs ALL of the oil revenues (e.g. 4.4% as opposed to 6.6% for current budget balance).
    So yes, Scotland runs a deficit, but which, if we are allowed to have the oil revenue, is not as big as the UK's deficit (a fact which he conveniently didn't mention).
    Perhaps that's what he means by a "redistributive UK" – redistributing Scottish revenue to the UK and redistributing UK debt to Scotland.
    GERS therefore demonstrates that Scotland would be better off Independent with the oil revenues to play with, than in the Union without control of these revenues.  Simple – and look I'm not an accountant or economist but even I could work that out!
    And yes, the oil will run out eventually – but we'll have (at least) 30 years to plan what to do when that happens.

    Reply
  6. MajorBloodnok says:

    Re Stevie Cosmic – I should have refreshed the page before posting!  So that means the £8bn extra revenue identified in GERS could actually be a very conservative underestimate.  Even better!

    Reply
  7. daretodare says:

    Unionists always forgot to mention that in 1979, the last time Scotland held a referendum, UK national debt was £84 billion. Today it is over 520% of UK National Income or £1.004 Trillion Pounds. Thats right £1004 billion – that is staggering economic incompetence 

    Also another point often conveniently forgotten is the full effect of the Scottish block grant – currently around £30 billion.  

    The block grant is subsequently distributed across various devolved responsibilities like SNHS, Local Authority funding – Education, Housing and Infrastructure. As this £30 billion is distributed and spent around £10billion is returned to Westminster in the form of VAT, PAYE/National Insurance and other indirect taxes. There is NI on wages to teachers, nurses and other public sector worker, all the VAT on material purchases, bought in services, infrastructure contracts etc, all returns to Westminster. In an independent Scotland the headline budgets could remain more or less the same but the tax take and funds available for redistribution would in effect increase 20+% because direct and indirect tax receipts would remain with the Scottish Treasury.         

    Reply
  8. daretodare says:

    Good point – that perhaps that’s what he means by a “redistributive UK” – redistributing Scottish revenue to the UK and redistributing UK debt to Scotland. The truth is always simple – strip away all the spin, negative propaganda and we find the actual facts and evidence support your astute conclusion. 
    Separately, oil will not run out in 30 years or anything like it. Including reserves west of Shetland – think 70 – 100 years minimum. Peak oil east of Shetland may have occurred (may!) but peak oil from all Scottish waters? Not a chance – we are no where near it! The total oil recovered west of Shetland will in time equal “all the oil” east of Shetland: that’s “all the oil” of the UK, Norwegian and Dannish sectors combined. It is not by accident that only the fields east of Shetland were ever allowed to be developed by the UK treasury.   

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)

    Stats: 6,752 Posts, 1,217,420 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • Hatey McHateface on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “Hmmm. The BBC News (waves to Marie) is constantly full of examples of people being treated abominably. I’m afraid I…May 9, 07:49
    • Hatey McHateface on All Or Nothing: “Hail Confused, full of shite. Don’t you want to know which school I went to? You need to get back…May 9, 07:33
    • Yoon Scum on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “Who do I vote for if I don’t want open borders immigration and I don’t want the North Sea to…May 9, 07:17
    • Yoon Scum on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “I’ve never seen you call out the moon howlers who are calling for English heads on spikes. Maybe you should…May 9, 07:06
    • Yoon Scum on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “Brexit causes you a MAJOR problem with your campaign They promised instant wealth and total freedom as the Eu would…May 9, 06:24
    • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh on All Or Nothing: “Tentative translation of the Marquis of Montrose quatrain: He either fears his fate too much, Or his deserts are small,…May 8, 23:10
    • Confused on All Or Nothing: “hail mia, full of grace, the lord is with thee … jesus was “antisemitic” : Ye are of YOUR FATHER…May 8, 22:52
    • Lorn on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “I think, Mia, the traditional Scottish Unionist vote and UKReform do not a double act make. They are coming from…May 8, 22:51
    • Lorn on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “Neither, Hatey. It doesn’t have to be above 48% before a campaign starts. Calling the bluff of both Holyrood and…May 8, 22:45
    • Lorn on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “Your tedious nonsense might apply to some nationalists, but, for the majority, we are very well aware that independence will…May 8, 22:39
    • Hatey McHateface on All Or Nothing: “Understood. I’m gonna assume that “wanking on and on” is an order of magnitude more serious than “wanging on” 🙂May 8, 22:17
    • Rev. Stuart Campbell on All Or Nothing: “Y’know, I’m not sure you were ever voting Yes, mate.May 8, 21:50
    • Rev. Stuart Campbell on All Or Nothing: “Fucksake, what do I have to DO to stop you people fucking wanking on and on about Israel and Palestine?…May 8, 21:49
    • Hatey McHateface on All Or Nothing: “Woo, check out the big guts on Mia. She’s standing by her words. There’s your route to Indy right there.…May 8, 21:39
    • Mia on All Or Nothing: ““The problem is the number of plants [in Hollyrood] working for the USA’s deep state and for the rogue state…May 8, 21:06
    • Mia on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “I am actually very surprised the Green vote remains that stubbornly high after their many cock ups with the return…May 8, 20:58
    • Hatey McHateface on All Or Nothing: “Aw, quick everybody, look at Mia. If frantic virtue signalling could give you wings, she’d have enough lift to carry…May 8, 20:53
    • Mia on All Or Nothing: ““It’s people like you that stopped me voting YES” Yes to what? It is trolls like you and Hatey what…May 8, 20:50
    • Vivian O’Blivion on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “RefUK friendly polling outfit Find Out Now have the Faragists on a thirteen percentage point lead! Westminster voting intention, field…May 8, 20:26
    • Yoon Scum on All Or Nothing: “Mia It’s people like you that stopped me voting YES And I use the term “people” in it’s loosest meaningMay 8, 20:16
    • Mia on All Or Nothing: ““an openly unashamed antisemite” If, according to you, the new meaning of the word “antisemite” is to feel sick at,…May 8, 19:58
    • 100%Yes on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “He keeps having a go at Alba Party. Bitter nice as a drink, it must be hell for someone who’s…May 8, 19:58
    • Yoon Scum on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “The biggest tell that a NAT isn’t very bright is they cannot give one single reason to stay in the…May 8, 19:52
    • Hatey McHateface on All Or Nothing: “Like I said, Mia, you’re an openly unashamed antisemite. Whether it’s you blaming your perceived wrongs in Scotland’s governance on…May 8, 19:47
    • Mia on All Or Nothing: ““days of 2014, that antisemitism w…” zzzzzz!! Antisemitism. The good old magic (but by now devoid of meaning) word that…May 8, 19:23
    • Hatey McHateface on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “You just beat me to it, YS. I was wondering if Rev Stu is lying to us, or if supporting…May 8, 19:21
    • Hatey McHateface on All Or Nothing: “Yeah, yeah, yeah, sara, but who cares about that? Don’t we really need racist, sectarian, twisted bigots if we are…May 8, 19:12
    • Mia on All Or Nothing: ““Happily there will be true independence fighters to vote for” I am counting on that, Sarah, but, If am not…May 8, 19:09
    • Owen Mullions on The Last Thing They’ll Expect: “His blog these days has nothing to do with independence, just a constant diatribe against Alba (no wonder they got…May 8, 19:06
    • Hatey McHateface on All Or Nothing: “Mia blaming Scotland’s situation on Da Dews again. Who ever thought, back in the heady days of 2014, that antisemitism…May 8, 19:02
  • A tall tale



↑ Top