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Wings Over Scotland

Just so you know

Posted on May 30, 2014 by

From today’s Guardian:

“Labour cannot afford to undo the coalition’s cuts in the next government and must expect to be unpopular, one of the party’s most senior finance spokesmen will say on Friday.

Chris Leslie, the shadow chief secretary to the treasury, will say some of the spending decisions ‘will be the toughest faced by an incoming Labour government for a generation’ if Ed Miliband wins the next election.

‘We won’t be able to undo the cuts that have been felt in recent years, and I know that this will be disappointing for many people. A more limited pot of money will have to be spent on a smaller number of priorities. Lower priorities will get less.'”

And as well as being bad news for the whole UK, we already know what that means for Scotland too. Because Labour has openly said, over and over, what its plans are.


That’s a leaflet sent out by Labour MP Katy Clark just a few days ago. The highlighting is ours, but the message is pretty clear even without it:

“By voting No on September 18th we can pool our resources and achieve redistribution of wealth and power from the wealthiest parts of the United Kingdom to the poorest.”

And Scottish Labour has also been very clear on which areas it’s referring to when it says “the wealthiest parts of the United Kingdom”:


The above text and accompanying graphs are taken from pages 70 and 71 of Scottish Labour’s document detailing its proposals for the aftermath of a No vote and a Labour win in the 2015 UK general election. We’ve added the red underlining for emphasis, but we haven’t changed any of the words.

The graphs are a bit confusing as the areas aren’t listed in order, so let’s make it even clearer with this one from the Royal Bank of Scotland:


Let’s just pick out a couple of key lines from those two documents, then:

redistribution of wealth and power from the wealthiest parts of the United Kingdom to the poorest”

“as part of the UK economic Union, Scotland is one of the wealthiest areas

Scottish Labour’s words, remember, not ours. Got the message yet? Still not sure?

“Interviewed by The Northern Echo, Johann Lamont rejected suggestions that Scotland is poised to gain a huge economic advantage over its neighbouring region, in return for voting ‘no’ to independence.

Instead, Ms Lamont urged people in the North-East not to believe ‘propaganda’ about extra powers and riches heading to Edinburgh, saying: ‘We shouldn’t let people divide us.’

Scotland will not be getting more money, it will simply be accountable for raising more of its money. I hope that dispels some myths.'”

We understand that people might not believe a pro-independence website when it says that a No vote is a vote to have money and power taken away from Scotland and given to England. (And it’s specifically England – Wales and Northern Ireland are both in the middle of the table, all the UK’s poorest regions are English ones.)

But you don’t have to believe us. In their own words, with uncharacteristic honesty and frankness, Scottish Labour have made it unmistakeably plain that that’s what you’re voting for if you vote No.

You might be happy with that. You might be all in favour of sending your money out of Scotland to help the East Midlands and the Humber Valley in the name of brotherly British solidarity. Good for you. We ask only one thing – don’t come running to us, or to the Scottish Government, a year from now when the “redistribution” out of Scotland begins and the cuts start to bite, saying that you didn’t know. You’ve been told.

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    1. 30 05 14 11:24

      Just so you know | Scottish Independence News

    2. 17 03 15 23:49

      The Devo Files: Katy Clark (North Ayrshire & Arran) | A Wilderness of Peace

    107 to “Just so you know”

    1. MajorBloodnok says:

      “In their own words, with uncharacteristic honesty and frankness, Scottish Labour have made it unmistakeably plain that that’s what you’re voting for if you vote No.”

      They’re clearly going for a strategy of implausible deniability. They can never get I right, can they?

    2. MajorBloodnok says:


    3. MajorBloodnok says:

      I’ve been canvassing and obsessing about Aye Right leaflets, that’ll explain it.

    4. Grouse Beater says:

      I read the “no reversing cuts” Labour prediction yesterday and wondered who in Scotland in the Labour party would dare advertise that craven policy while they tell the people they won’t ever be better off running their own country.

    5. David Agnew says:

      This is the core of Labours “one nation labour” vision. Scotland’s resources being pooled to mitigate risky policies in England.

    6. TD says:

      Redistribution of resources is all well and good – the key issue is where you draw the boundaries of the area in which wealth is to be redistributed. Labour draw the boundary around the UK – I want to draw the boundary around Scotland. Labour are entitled to their point of view, but we are entitled to honesty from them – they will not explicitly state that they want to send Scottish Money to England. If they did of course, the swing to Yes would be irresistible. So let’s keep plugging away at it, get the message over to the Don’t Knows. If Labour won’t complete the message, we need to do it for them.

    7. pmcrek says:

      I wouldnt mind if they actually planned on spending money to benefit the North of England but the money never gets spent there and never will be.

    8. chalks says:

      Vote No for a private NHS, Private education and nukes on the Clyde.

      Vote No for a cut to Scotlands budget and potentially losing benefits.

      Vote No to work longer and for cheaper

      Vote No to get less of a Pension.

      Vote No to become a region, nationality superseded by the Great British establishment.

      Fuck that.

      Vote Yes.

    9. IheartScotland says:

      Couldn’t be more clear Rev.
      If only people knew.

    10. panda paws says:

      God forbid it’s a No vote but if it is I’m getting a “Don’t blame me I voted Yes” badge.

      But thanks for Labour for a rare piece of honesty. In the UK Scotland is a wealthy country with lots of poor folk and if it’s a No vote we’ll be even poorer.

    11. Fiona says:

      If, as the unionists claim, the UK economy is strong and Scotland is subsidised by England, why are all the poorest places in England?

      For the record, if redistribution from wealthy to poor was the agenda I would not object. It isn’t. It is redistribution from the poor to the wealthy. Corporate wealth must be increased at any cost and the idea that the UK or Scotland cannot “afford” to reverse the cuts is laughable indeed

      Do not vote for independence because you believe you will be better off, unless you also believe you will be better off for the right reasons.

      The focus in the yes posters on “better off” without making the second part clear really turns me off, I must confess

    12. HoraceSaysYes says:

      I presume that they are just depending upon people in Scotland voting Labour because they’ve always done it, and not actually paying any attention to their policies?

    13. benarmine says:

      Vote no, get less than nothing, in black and white there. Thanks Rev.

    14. jim watson says:

      It’s as plain as the red nose on a red face – vote Labour and you are voting for continued austerity, cuts and more cuts. And his will impact on Scotland in a disproportionate manner…

    15. Footsoldier says:

      Anyone know if Johann Lamont is available for collecting in Easterhouse this Saturday in aid of Moss Side, Manchester?

    16. Geoff Huijer says:

      I couldn’t be any worse off unless I was made homeless.

      A No vote, I’m sure, absolutely positive, will do that.

      Juggling £71 a week to pay bills that outweigh that can
      only last so long in a society where jobs seem like hen’s

      Nice to know that I live in the 3rd wealthiest part of this
      great ‘Union’ though.

      Amongst all the advantages of a Yes vote the biggest one looks like being HOPE (although another article did point out a homeless man saying we had ‘too much to lose’ in going for independence).

    17. heedtracker says:

      “as part of the UK economic Union, Scotland is one of the wealthiest areas“ but Severin Carrell Guardian says Scotland’s got nothing

      Guess who Severin chooses to back his Scotland has nothing thesis, Ian Murray MP, same Labour ligger that called the Police in Edinburgh because someone put a YES sticker on his office window.

    18. jon esquierdo says:

      But how do we educate the uneducated

    19. CameronB Brodie says:

      The first map still needs fixed, but fiddle with the focus for an indication of where Scotland’s wealth is bound, if we vote no. You might notice that only the north east concentration of deprivation will not be connected by HS2. Transport interventions tend to have beneficial local effects, in terms of the competitiveness of local economies. Do you want to pay to make England more competitive than Scotland? Do you want Scotland’s wealth to subsidise the property bubble being stimulated in London and along the HS2 route?

    20. Les Wilson says:

      It is not really Slab being honest, they just did not account for someone putting different things they say in different articles,and pulling them all together.

      Excellent again Stu!

    21. Taranaich says:

      @pmcrek: I wouldnt mind if they actually planned on spending money to benefit the North of England but the money never gets spent there and never will be.

      I wouldn’t mind either, as long as the other two regions which are richer than Scotland also contribute to boosting the poorer parts. But since those two regions are the South East and London, I don’t think I need to finish that thought.

    22. Jim Thomson says:

      Here’s the thing, when we are independent, we will have our own foreign aid policy and funds. If we felt that the rUK was in need of assistance we could provide them with VISIBLE aid rather than the invisible taxes that disappear into the treasury.

      Of course, we’d then fall into the trap of making the rest of the UK “foreign”. Dilema or what?

    23. Stoops says:

      Much chance of redistribution of wealth from London and the SE under Labour d’ye think? No? Me either.

    24. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, I forgot Liverpool won’t be connected to HS2, but you get the drift.

    25. Macart says:

      Couldn’t be plainer.

      Make no mistake as those cuts bite and the cash tightens, care for the elderly, prescription charges, council tax freeze, ring fencing for the SNHS budget, all of it will suffer. The last conversation I want to have in the event of a no vote is the one where the words ‘why doesn’t Holyrood do something about this?’ feature.

      Its not Holyrood, its us. We can stop it from happening.

    26. Free Scotland says:

      This article is a must for printing and distribution. Keep working for that massive swing to YES. Can’t you just sense that it’s already begun?

    27. themadmurph says:

      @jon esquierdo
      how do we educate the uneducated?

      Just talk to people. I was in for day surgery yesterday. I took the opportunity to talk to all the nurses. 1 was undecided but very interested another not interested at all. Another 3 listened but weren’t as interested as the first.

      I went back up today with some chocolates and a thank you card. The one that was interested, I gave her a wee letter with wings and other sites. She told me she had talked to her husband about it last night and promised to look into it.

      Never miss an opportunity to spread the word ????

    28. Stuart says:

      Hits home with me but only after reading it a couple of times. The way you’ve presented your headline doesn’t get the point cross at all and I almost didnt bother reading the article. Your site has some great information but stuff like this could be written far more dynamically and more catchy to entice people to read it. I imagine average Joe doesn’t get it either.

      You should get this written in a flyer form and get the points across in snappier form and it might have more impact.

    29. a2 says:

      Ah now I see, all those fibs we’ve had were building up to a point where they can tell the truth and no-one believes them.


    30. Peter Macbeastie says:

      Oh, see the swing to Yes?

      I’m more confident about it this morning than I’ve ever been. The BBC has applied some impartiality, as per the electoral rules, and if this morning’s output is anything to go by anyone who gets their news from the BBC is going to get something of a wake up call.

      This impartiality rule should apply to all news media (please, correct me if I’ve got that wrong) and so at the very least they’ll have to stop simply running with anti independence propaganda or risk getting thumped by the Electoral authorities.

      Regardless; today marks a change in the approach of one of the largest sources of information to the public. The BBC, and their normal ‘impartial’ approach, is pumped into houses, cars and vans across Scotland day in, day out. Radio accounts for thousands. Television, in spite of the millions of potential audience, does not reach the same numbers. Radio runs on a drip, drip service. Even if you’re not really paying attention to what you are hearing some of it still filters in.

    31. heedtracker says:

      It’s so depressing reading Labour’s redistribution plans when you stop to consider UK inequality levels and the three full terms in office for the Blair/Brown/Darling creep show.

      You just have to drive through a “poor” UKOK region like Yorkshire and the Humber to see multi million pound houses and people watching you through the windscreens of £150k Aston Martins.

      And it’s all YES voters fault for not wanting their pooling and sharing con with teamGB.
      What’s Tony Blair worth now?

    32. Jim Thomson says:

      @themadmurph 11:29

      we had a “let’s fit solar panels to your roof” bloke in yesterday and he made the mistake of letting the better half know that he was “undecided”.

      To cut a long story short, the visit took at least a hour longer than it should have and his wee car was laden with informative material when he left. Another tick in the box 🙂

    33. muttley79 says:

      So Slab unionists, such as Curran and Lamont, want to redistribute public spending from Glasgow; some areas of which have lower life expectancy than the Gaza Strip, to other parts of the UK? If these are your political representatives, who needs enemies…

    34. HandandShrimp says:

      There was a point a while back when Severin in the Guardian posed as a neutral journalist but I would put Severin as firmly in the Unionist camp as Cochrane. In some respects I prefer Cochrane because he is bluntly honest about his position. The Guardian does post stories that give a more balanced report and occasionally Severin is the author but the weight of all their pieces tilts heavily to the No side and in Severin’s case probably about 90% is a straight lift from Better Together.

      NOBs is somewhat different…I think their left field entry has thrown a few people including some of the No people. THE GOSH story seems to be finding few supporters. I can imagine Alistair smiling wryly at that.

    35. Jim Thomson says:

      #GrammarPolice …

      “an hour longer”

      I blame the meds

    36. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      Not so much a pool, it seems to me, as a flyover. One that brings the Labour party heid bummers straight to the troughs on the Thames, where they do indeed pool themselves. And fool the rest of us.

    37. Dinnatouch says:

      Chalks says
      Vote No to become a region, nationality superseded by the Great British establishment.

      That’s a good point. The original Union was supposed to be between two equal partner states. Over the years the Union came to bee seen as the state itself. By voting No, we confirm this status. No more will be be able to call ourselves a country, we will officially become a region.

    38. Capella says:

      This Newsnet article underlines the domination of UK parties by corporate interests and the role of UKIP in promoting that agenda. Labour is powerless to oppose it in the UK and doesn’t even pretend to care. Instead of promising to prolong the attack on the poor, they could be promising to tax the rich!

    39. Grouse Beater says:

      Labour’s “we are no different from the Tory Party” admission is an obvious reason so many English turned to Ukip, ears closed to that party’s Tea Party muddled policies and bigotry.

    40. joe kane says:

      I’ve just had someone on a Scottish-based disabled human rights campaigning Facebook group, and who claims not be political but whose own Facebook has assorted Loyalist paraphernalia on it, calling Alex Salmond a fat nazi because Nicola Sturgeon has had the audacity to give out food vouchers to people in her constituency who have no money and nothing to eat.

      That’s the kind of mentality supporters of independence are up against.

      Reference –
      Sturgeon keeps food bank vouchers in her Glasgow office as crisis grows

    41. Stuart Black says:

      Talking about redistribution of wealth, that’s a very timely retweet by the Rev regarding Maryhill Food Bank and its empty shelves, me and my wife will be delivering stuff there within the hour, and I would urge anyone in the area with a few quid to spare to get along and donate what they can.

      Then find a Better Together apologist and ask them to explain how this works…

      You know, this ‘best of both worlds’ shite they keep bleating on about?

    42. Dcanmore says:

      Can we start by pooling, sharing and redistributing the wealth of Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, John Reid, Anas Anwar, George Robertson, and Alistair Darling first, must be a few £million there at least. You know, they can show us how it’s done the socialist way.

      ‘All animals are equal … Somehow it seemed as though the farm had grown richer without making the animals themselves any richer — except, of course, for the pigs.’ – George Orwell.

    43. wingman 2020 says:

      Leaving aside the horrendous debt burden for a moment, the UK was/is potentially a wealthy country.

      But 60 years of Westminster mismanagement (often deliberate) has virtually broken the country. Our MPs at Westminster have consistently worked for themselves, not for the good of the people. This is THE fundamental problem. Our political system turned into a trough. Westminster is an elitist, self serving, archaic, anacronistic and corrupt institution.

      And despite decades of of ‘political manoeuvring and fiddling’ with the income tax structure, the money has never been distributed fairly across these islands. Now with increased pressure on the finances, it is going to get worse.

      Read the history books and time and time again, the peasants and serfs were financially squeezed by the Monarchy (often bloody) to finance wars and pay for the establishment.

      In Economic measurement terms, Scotland looks great – GDP, Employment and industrial growth. But unlike London, Scotland has never benefitted from any wealth it has generated.

      We are screwed by the following:

      1. Income tax paid versus services received. (Huge taxes, some invisible & poor services)

      2. Government efficiency & wastage. (e.g. MOD IT systems)

      3. Westminster money is ‘leaked’ from the system (privatisation, lobbying deals and cronyism)

      4. Special London projects. (HS2 and Sewage works)

      5. Paying for ‘global interventions’ that benefit London finances and MOD (e.g. Iraq war)

      6. Below average wages and high energy costs.

      If Scotland really was such a basket case as Westminster, Better Together, CBI, and all the other organisations with vested interests claim… they would not be worried about 8.4% of the population managing their own political affairs and economy.

      In terms of ‘Boston Matrix’, Scotland has always been a ‘Cash Cow’ for the Union. But the UK has never reinvested in Scotland to allow it to become a ‘Rising Star’… and the direction we are headed is ‘Dog’.

      In UK plc terms… they are only interested in their Financial Services Division… They are content to milk / harvest Scotland until the demise is complete.

      The simple fact is Scotland, ‘Brings home the bacon’ and Westminster keeps the choice portions.

      Scotland allowed to rise economically (grow, prosper and diversify) would actually contribute far more to the British Isles. But this would mean the establishment no longer have control of their cash cow.

      A better Scotland is not only possible, it is a necessity… the alternative is for us too grow old and watch the continuous downward spiralling decline of a country until we hit the ground.

    44. john king says:

      O/t sorry
      I want to report a theft,
      I from my efforts on Wings Over Scotland acquired (legally) a silver wings badge, which soon after its acquisition mysteriously vanished much to my chagrin,

      The culprit quickly became apparent today when My 1st wife (ha) was rummaging through her wardrobe for something to wear tonight at the Counting house and lo, what’s on the piece of apparel she selected but the very silver (coveted) wings badge that disappeared into thin air,
      and she wont give me it back
      is there any rule I can invoke Rev that would prove a non winger cannot legally hold that badge to make her give it back?

      Someone help me!
      Rhona? 🙁

    45. Onwards says:

      Surely the population growth trend is another reason why ‘pooling and sharing’ doesn’t work well for Scotland?

      London and the South East make up the biggest share of UK population growth.
      This article yesterday predicts that London will hit 10 million in the next 15 years.

      It’s like a hidden subsidy.

      As an extreme example, if Scotland had only 1000 people, then it would be ‘fair’ for the Scottish budget to be only 1000 times the UK average per head, no matter how many billions were made from our natural resources.

    46. joe kane says:

      It’s not as if the Labour Party are even interested in getting rid of poverty either, if its own reaction to a report it commissioned into disability and poverty and what can be done about it is anything to go by. I’m sure I don’t to remind people that disabled people are far more likely to be living in poverty and suffering unemployement than most other groups in society.

      Labour buried their own report and never even printed in a format that was in a disabled-friendly format. I’m sure if it was a report into the need to upgrade Trident it would be blaring the good news out from every public outlet it could get its neoliberal hands on.

      Actions speak louder than words – Labour publish Poverty & Disability taskforce report

    47. IheartScotland says:

      I’d love to contribute to another 10000 flags campaign.
      Anyone know of a new campaign, or want to start one?
      Yours in computer illitaracy..

    48. Indy_Scot says:

      Honestly, if Scotland votes ‘no’ in September, I think my brain will melt.

    49. themadmurph says:

      @jim Thomson 11:37

      I had a cavity wall guy leave my house on Wednesday with a note of Rev. Stu’s site and a couple others. As well as pointing him in the right direction on a few things. Every little helps! Now where have I heard that before? 😉

    50. heedtracker says:

      BBC kick off their official vote NO campaign today with this lad taking a long hard piss all over Scottish democracy. What a tragic bunch they are and they only cost the Scottish region £300+million a year too

    51. Jim Thomson says:

      @IheartScotland 12:05

      Look no further than your very own WoS

      You’re welcome 🙂

    52. Greannach says:

      Given what Chris Leslie (a new name to me) has to say about priorities, it’s sad that Trident is up there amongst Labour’s main priorities. Don’t believe me, just check what Sincerity Jim and Jackie Baillie have to say when they’re cheerleading on its behalf.

    53. Jim Thomson says:

      Jings – is this [rubs eyes] a “balanced BBC I see before me:

      What’s that saying again – one swallow does not a summer make? (or something along those lines)

    54. msean says:

      I’m voting yes because I believe it is the right thing to do,but even if I was undecided,this article might swing me to yes as it shows what is being planned by whatever shade/colour of Tory that gets in. Anyone would be forgiven for mistaking Labour for Tories sometimes when you read/listen to the top guys lol. 🙂

    55. desimond says:

      I presume “poorer parts” is missing ” of London” ?

    56. wingman 2020 says:

      Surely the population growth trend is another reason why ‘pooling and sharing’ doesn’t work well for Scotland?

      London and the South East make up the biggest share of UK population growth.
      This article yesterday predicts that London will hit 10 million in the next 15 years.

      It’s like a hidden subsidy.

      As an extreme example, if Scotland had only 1000 people, then it would be ‘fair’ for the Scottish budget to be only 1000 times the UK average per head, no matter how many billions were made from our natural resources.

      Not really. Per capita, London does better than the rest of the UK. For example they get around £40 per head for Arts and Culture while the rest of the UK get around £3 per head.

      So 7 million people in London get £280 million …. and an area like Birmingham with a million people gets £3million

      Its easy to see where the economic activity will then be generated… Interestingly not much of a difference in geographic area!

      Further, there is a strong argument, that in order to develop these islands equally, less densely populated areas require more funding, not less. (Infrastructure generally costs more in less densely populated areas)

      Then you get caught in the mass economic migration that Scotland suffers from…. Young talent drifts south to try to get a wage above the average..

      50% of the employed in Scotland are on £21k or less…. How the hell can anyone survive on that today??

    57. seoc says:

      Labour bent over backwards to get their macho war – which of course bankrupted us.
      Now we get food banks.
      Yet they still want their grubby hands on political power (and the wee bonuses)
      They do indeed think we are daft.

    58. msean says:

      Good points

    59. IheartScotland says:

      Please stop confusing facts with bullsit***

    60. Flower of Scotland says:


      I was just listening to Brian’s Big Debate and had to turn it off! There are two for yes SNP and P Harvie doing his own thing ( not sure if he’s on the yes side!!) and three for no ( Brian Taylor being the 3rd! ) This is on the day that the BBC has to stop being biased! That’s a joke! I’m not going to like the next 16 weeks! They’ve started!!!

    61. faolie says:

      O/T, just heard Danny Alexander on R2, spouting schoolboy arguments for remaining in the Union. Edinburgh trams cost £1bn (they didn’t actually but let that pass) so surely the cost of setting up an independent state can’t be less than setting up a tram system. I kid you not.

      Stewart Maxwell replying, kicked his arse, sticking to the ‘caught red-handed lying’ line and suggesting a cost of c£200m – even when prompted again by Vanessa Feltz about the tram thing! Jeez.

    62. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      So sorry I can’t make the Counting House tonight. I’ll give you all a mention on my “Not Fade Away” rock’n’roll show tonight between 8 and 9 on the online Argyll Independent Radio

    63. Papadox says:

      These chancers are planning to steal and squander my great grand children’s future to line their own pockets like they have always done, truly sick. What is just as sick are the people who see what is going on and close their eyes so they can pretend they see no evil and salve their own cociences while grovelling for the crumbs of the rich.

      Our children’s future is not safe in the hands of these well spoken, well dressed thugs and their blind hangers on. The establishment, the putrid system that corrupts everyone and everything it touches and uses and abuses everyone outside of it.

      Aye none are so blind as those who do not want to see, or think they are above the common man.

    64. Fireproofjim says:

      Regarding the Severin Carrell/Guardian article on the Glasgow Uni. report which says Scotland has a high level of foreign ownership. Well, so what?
      In modern interdependent economies this is normal. The rest of the UK is just the same. (Jaguar/Landrover, Toyota, Ford, Vauxhall, Mini, to name but a few, and only in the car industry.)
      The report particularly mentions the oil industry, but that has always been the way of offshore exploration. Bring in the big international companies who have the expertise and then tax their profits in a reasonable way.
      That is how about £400 billion was extracted by the Westminister Treasury from the North Sea.
      I am sure we can do that over the next forty or fifty years without scaring off any companies.
      That is not to mention the west of Scotland oil which has the potential to be much bigger.

    65. Onwards says:

      “Further, there is a strong argument, that in order to develop these islands equally, less densely populated areas require more funding, not less. (Infrastructure generally costs more in less densely populated areas)

      That’s my point.
      Scotland shouldn’t be distributing money away.

      Especially when crude ‘money per head’ figures are used to claim that Scotland gets a fair share of spending, so that any extra Scottish revenue can be redistributed elsewhere.

      And when population growth rates are lower, then it amounts to a further subsidy.

    66. wingman 2020 says:


      Please stop confusing facts with bullsit***

      Do elucidate. I am all ears. Your comment adds nothing.

    67. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sort of O/T but kinda relevant, I think.

      I posted this link late on last night on another thread so many folks won’t have seen it. I came across this video last night which is everyone’s favourite NOB N.H.S. video but it has been *ahem* amended, obviously NOT by the NOB crew. Perhaps we should start a campaign to have the NOB videos re-admitted back into cinema’s AFTER they have been *cough* amended. 😛

    68. TheItalianJob says:


      And if we were independent like Norway we could have had our own predominately state owned oil company.

      Norwegian Statoil is the world’s eleventh largest oil and gas company and the twenty-sixth largest company, regardless of industry, by profit in the world. The company has about 23,000 employees. As of 2013, the Government of Norway is the largest shareholder in Statoil with 67% of the shares, while the rest is public stock.

      Seven hundred new jobs have been confirmed by offshore firm Statoil after it selected a new UK North Sea head office in Aberdeen.

      The Prime Four business park base will be the operations centre for developing the Mariner field, creating 200 onshore and 500 offshore jobs.

      The Mariner field is about 150km (93 miles) east of Shetland.

      Statoil expects to start production from Mariner in 2017 and the field is expected to produce for 30 years.

      Our own Scottish oil company set up as BNOC, by the then Labour government in the late 70?s with HQ in Glasgow. It was then privitised as Britoil then sold off to BP by Maggie Thatcher. The idea was to have a Scottish oil company with a HQ in Glasgow. When BP bought them they pledged to keep the office in Glasgow, now long since gone along with the highly paid jobs. A great number of Britoil’s assets are now being currently developed west of Shetland by BP and other oil companies, hence the requirement to upgrade the Sullom Voe terminal.

      BP putting £600 million into Sullom Voe.

      BP’s regional president for the North Sea Trevor Garlick said the investment would secure the terminal for at least another 30 years.

    69. wingman 2020 says:


      Fair enough. I agree. The distribution should address the imbalance and the economic migration.

    70. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. wealth distribution, economic competitiveness and HS2. I am actually a supporter of public transport and many of the EU’s policy objectives. I am just concerned that the impact HS2 will have on Scotland’s economy, may have been understated. The trans-European high-speed rail network is the most significant transport intervention in European history. It is intrinsically bound up with the spatial distribution of economic development and European integration.

      As early as 1986, the Single European Act stressed the link between smooth functioning of the single market and the goal of economic, social and territorial cohesion. The interconnection and interoperability of national infrastructure networks have emerged as key factors for coherent development planning in the Community.

    71. Lanarkist says:

      Just been listening to the Big Brian Debate and he is taking a break from the programme. Guess who is popping up to take his place, yep, Gordon Brewer, so that will help with the bias in the Official Ref period then!

    72. Les Wilson says:

      It will be interesting from today, just how the BBC, et al are going to behave in the final campaign months.
      The trouble is,they really have no story to tell, so be assured of spin and lies will continue.

      They neither know or have any other way to maintain their precious Union. We must be ever diligent during this time for underhand tricks, and I am not convinced by the E commission bring them to heel.

      It is therefore for us to report every bias we see,lies and manipulations that the promote and send them straight to the Commission. Doing that as soon as we can, will either prove the reason for the Commission, or show it up for what it is. So all of us, be very observant.

      Particularly with Labour’s fav, the postal votes.

    73. Dr Ew says:

      Kudos to Labour for being honest? I think not. Redistributing wealth from one an area to another is just Labourspeak malarky that gives extra subsidies to Labour councils to piss away while they take backhanders from builders. Genuine redistribution of wealth – from the rich to the poor – is not on their agenda, nor is redistribution of power. That has been annexed by the City, Globalshafters Inc., oily exiled oligarchs, the upper class twit of the year show and the richest 2% of bastards. Devolving and democratising power to neighbourhoods and localities would create structures for real change, along with a Land Value Tax, strict corporation tax rules, and sliding scale taxation with 1% increments for every £1,000 or so of personal income over, say, £25k (however that income is derived).

      If a single journalist asked them if they were serious about redistribution of wealth they’d be spewing every weasel word in the weasel thesaurus to placate the madness of Middle England – that’s the middle classes blithely tutting about immigration as they’re being priced out of their own homeland while they drug themselves and their children with the Daily Hate-Mail, Kirstie Mumsy-Tory Allsop, the Great fucking British Rake Off and all their stultifying, stupifying, soporific ilk.

      Ooooooooooooooh! It makes me soooooo MAAAAD!

      (Note to self: Medication, medication, medication.)

    74. Flower of Scotland says:

      I photographed the bit in blue about the Northern Echo. It’s now on Facebook! Someone said the radio has a drip, drip affect , well I post something for YES everyday on my Facebook page because I know lots of friends are NOs. Hopefully I can get a drip, drip affect too!

    75. cynicalHighlander says:


      BBD debate sounded more like the Jim Murphy talk show.

    76. Les Wilson says:

      Sorry another quick post,
      Ref the “sharing of wealth” well that is all fine and agreeable, however given how Scotland has been financially stiffened for 300 years charity begins at home.

      If after a YES vote, things go well, as we DO expect them to, then we can be magnanimous to others, as Scots are a compassionate people. Nevertheless, we need to fix our own priorities before that, our own people’s needs, must for once come before, and are our first issue.

    77. Lesley-Anne says:

      Here’s a three minute video by Alan Bisset on the future if we vote NO in September. I wonder if anyone from Labour would like to step up to the plate and tear it shreds….anyone…. No I didn’t think so!

    78. chalks says:

      Anyone else seen that ‘lying scotsman’ photo going about?

      My father in law as posted it up on FB, he is a confirmed Yes voter….I’ve responded with a couple of things they have ‘lied’ about….i.e. not lied about because they’ve been confirmed…e.g. EU.

      Beginning to get upset about this constant slagging off of Salmond, it’s straight out of the Republican play book.

      It does however say alot about the Scottish psyche that we believe that someone who is telling us we are rich and can do better on our own is villified and demonised.

      My how little respect we have for ourselves, thank god for the comments section on Wings, I’d be headbutting a brick wall if it wasn’t here.

    79. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oh dearie me, looks like NOB are having to get their begging bowl out. 😛

    80. CameronB Brodie says:

      One might get the impression you are enjoying VNB’s ‘difficulties’. I reckon VNB can call on all sorts of ‘unidentified’ finance, so they are probably just trying to prove the meme that Scots are too poor.

    81. Lesley-Anne says:

      What you saying Cameron?

      ME? …enjoying NOB possibly being in difficulties….nah…not me…honest…I would NEVER do anything like that…HONEST…well maybe just occasionally, like every time I see a hard luck story about them. 😛

    82. joe kane says:

      Better Together –
      MSPs’ anger as UK employment minister cancels Holyrood meeting
      Neil Couling, DWP work service director, sparked anger when he appeared before the Welfare Committee in April.
      He said foodbank use is on the rise because poor people are “maximising their economic opportunities”. He also claimed many people who face benefit sanctions welcome the jolt it can give them.

    83. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thing is did she actually cancel the meeting cause she is feart of meeting REAL politicians in Edinburgh or did she cancel cause she has no clue about whereabouts SCOTLAND is Joe? 😛

    84. Peter Mirtitsch says:

      I eventually got a reply back from my local MP, Katy Clark regarding the SLAB taxation proposals, after several reminders.

      “Dear Mr. Mirtitsch

      I write to thank you for your email sent on 27th March regarding Labour’s proposals to extend devolution for Scotland within the United Kingdom. I have received a number of identical emails on this matter as I understand have a number of other Labour MPs.

      My understanding is that the proposals in relation to taxation build on powers which the Scottish Government already has under the Scotland Act 1998 and which will be extended in 2016 under provisions contained under the Scotland Act 2012.

      To answer your specific questions at present the Scottish Government already has the power to set an income tax rate, across all income tax bands, 3p lower than the UK level. Under the Scotland Act 2012 this will be extended to 10p and under Labour’s proposals for further devolution this would be increased further to 15p. It would therefore be possible for the Scottish Government to set a basic rate lower than that of the United Kingdom.

      In relation to raising taxes the Scottish Government currently has the power to raise income tax, above all bands 3p above the UK level. This power will be extended to an unlimited amount under the Scotland Act 2012. It would therefore be possible for the Scottish Government to set a basic rate higher than that of the United Kingdom.

      In addition to extending the powers of the Scottish Government to set tax rates, across all tax bands, different to the rest of the United Kingdom the Labour Party’s proposals to further extend devolution would give the Scottish Government additional powers to increase the higher or additional rates of tax above that of the basic rate. This could therefore theoretically create a scenario similar to that which you outline in your fourth question where the higher rate of tax was the same as the United Kingdom’s but the basic rate was indeed lower. Obviously it would be for a future Scottish Government to determine whether or not such an approach was desirable. This would not be a scenario that a Scottish Government could be forced to accept against their wishes however as the powers for Scotland to set tax rates different to those of the United Kingdom under the Scotland Act 2012 are set one year at a time. The Scottish Government would therefore have to actively choose to adopt such an approach.

      As the powers for Scotland to set tax rates different to those of the United Kingdom are set on an annual basis under the Scotland Act 2012 it would also therefore not be possible for the Scottish Government to be forced to adopt a higher rate of tax higher than that of the United Kingdom against their wishes.

      I hope this provides some clarification.

      With Best Wishes,

      Katy Clark

      Katy Clark

      Member of Parliament

      North Ayrshire and Arran”

    85. IheartScotland says:

      @Jim Thomson,
      Thanks for the links. You’re a champ.
      we need easy links to this stuff on wings

    86. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry I’m going O/T here but apparently there have been one or two individuals, just one or two mind you, who have complained to the BBC about their re-branding to the UKIP Channel. 😛

    87. K1 says:

      Firstly I want to apologise in advance for this very long post. Don’t feel so bad now that a new article is up, so here I go…

      Like many on here, back in April when Stu brought to our attention the comments that he quotes from Johanna Lamont’s interview for the Northern Echo. I sent off an email to my Labour MP (Ann McKechin) regarding Ms Lamont’s comments: I used the ‘template’ that I think Andrew Morton posted on that article…and duly sent this off:

      Dear Ann,

      Thank you for your reply to my questions related to the Labour Party’s devolution proposals.

      I have relistened to speeches by Johann Lamont about Labour’s new Devolution proposals and read many articles in the press about the substantial new powers promised to the Scottish Parliament as a result.

      You can imagine my surprise when I read an article in the today’s Northern Echo containing an interview with Ms Lamont which appears to directly contradict those speeches.

      I quote: “The North-East has nothing to fear from “devo max” for Scotland”, Labour’s leader north of the border has insisted.

      Interviewed by The Northern Echo, Johann Lamont rejected suggestions that Scotland is poised to gain a huge economic advantage over its neighbouring region in return for voting ‘No’ to Independence.

      Instead Ms Lamont urged people in the North-East not to believe “propaganda” about extra powers and riches heading to Edinburgh saying:”We shouldn’t let people divide us.”

      When Ms Lamont assured us that the party’s new proposals contained an offer of substantial new powers I naturally took it that she was being sincere.

      I find Ms Lamont’s original statements and by extension the Labour Party’s proposed devolved powers in the event of a ‘No’ vote, to be in a state of fundamental contradiction in light of her comments to the Northern Echo today. Can you confirm to me what the true state of affairs are? Because it cannot be both.

      Is the use of the word “propaganda” by Ms Lamont, an inadvertent admission by Ms Lamont of her own party’s strategy to present these new powers as substantial to
      voters (Referendum), while expressing their lack of substance to non voters? As she clearly states above there will not be substantial gains for Scotland should we decide to vote ‘No’ in the referendum. Then why are these devolution powers being presented as an incentive to do just that? Surely the Labour Party in Scotland as our representatives have a duty to their constituents to be
      transparent and honest in this regard?

      Any clarity you can bring to my concerns is much appreciated.

      Yours Sincerely

      Unusually, I did get a reply from my MP. Not the usual scripted rhetoric, but a personal reply, others may well have had a similar reply?


      Further to your email of the 14th and having now had the opportunity to read the article it is clear that the comments were made in relation to the funding formula split within the UK. I fail to see what justifies a contradiction from our stated position. Johann stated that in relation to the new proposals made at our Party conference “ Scotland will not be getting more money, it will simply be accountable for raising more of its money. I hope that dispels some myths.”

      We certainly have no desire as a socialist party to seek for Scotland to gain at the expense of a neighbouring region of the UK – I presume you don’t either.

      Yours sincerely

      Ann McKechin MP

      Can I ask everyone to note the use of the word ‘region’ in the second paragraph. If we vote No, we merely confirm that we are a region.

      There is no way that we will be getting any more substantial powers to raise more of our own taxes, which is what we need to significantly alter our policies to bring about a more fair and just distributive economic model.

      I did of course reply to this…and am happy to post but don’t want to bore anyone…if I haven’t already done so.:)

    88. CameronB Brodie says:

      Go on, I dare ya. 🙂

    89. YESGUY says:

      The labour party are a joke in Scotland and anyone voting them now is nothing more than a tory. I have had many an argument over these liars and ask them show me where labour are different and guess what ?? They cant. But they will vote labour anyway and if thats a no then tough.

      Scotlands biggest shame is the blind ,arrogant liars of the NO vote. They do Westmiddens bidding . Nothing but scares and smears, disgraceful spin and nothing of substance to say about their own country other than put downs .

      The thought of a no win makes me feel physically sick. Leaves me with little hope and a “told ye so ” badge wont make things any easier, i will feel betrayed by my own.

      Disclaimer. I am not a cybernat , or SNP supporter ,i am a 50 something Scot who sees the YES votE as the ONLY way for Scotland to go. The only way my family and friends will live in a fair society and bring hope to all of us instead of the greed is good merchants who have run my country into the ground.

      NO MORE – YES

    90. K1 says:


    91. Lesley-Anne says:

      YESGUY says:

      Disclaimer. I am not a cybernat

      Erm, I don’t quite know how to tell you this Yesguy but…erm…*cough* …you ARE a cybernat. You’ve been found out by posting on here, cybernat central. 😛

    92. geeo says:

      “pool themselves. And fool the rest of us”.

      So it is a case of, pooling and fooling then ?

      That has a certain ring about it !

    93. K1 says:

      I echo YESGUY’s disclaimer in posting my reply to my MP’s response, I have no affiliations with any party…I do however care about our human condition, and am delighted to have found myself amongst many others who feel similarly.

      I happen also to have been born in a beautiful part of the planet that is now undergoing major transformation; the birthing of a new future for the generations to come, in the hope that they will have opportunity, hope and a history to look back on with immense appropriate, pride.

      Dear Ann,

      Once again thank you for your reply regarding devolution powers.

      The point I was raising in my previous email, with respect to Ms Lamont’s comments in the Northern Echo was not related to whether Labour as a socialist party was seeking “for Scotland to gain at the expense of a neighbouring region of the UK”. My point is specifically related to her comments regarding the outlined proposals presented to Scotland as ‘more powers’ if we vote ‘No’ in the Referendum. The proposals themselves are not in fact outlining any new devolved powers, they are merely shifting the responsibility of raising taxes from Westminster to Scotland.

      We also have to stay in line with the overall UK tax policy of whichever government is incumbent at Westminster, therefore these proposals cannot be guaranteed as even possible unless Labour win the 2015 GE. What strikes me as counter intuitive about these proposals is that the block grant which will be negatively affected by any increases of revenues that we accrue, will be reduced accordingly. There has also been much speculation about the Barnett formula being scrapped altogether thereby forcing us into the very difficult position of attempting to raise all of these revenues when Labours’ proposals clearly state that we can only raise up to £2billion of our own taxes.

      Also if the Conservative/Libdem government which is still incumbent would ever ratify these proposals is highly unlikely in the event of a ‘No’ vote. If the Conservative Party win in the 2015 GE these proposals again would likely find no support from that quarter. In the event of a Labour win in the 2015 GE, how do these proposals benefit us in the Scottish ‘region’ in the longer term? Is it not more likely that we could find ourselves in a position of not being able to balance our budgets’ and therefore set ourselves on a course of borrowing to keep up with increased expenditure, creating more social inequality as spending policies become increasingly defined by reducing our debt? These proposals will tie the hands of any Scottish Government, they will not set us on the course of continuing to address the social inequities that exist in our ‘region’, they will not provide the levers that allow us to define our policies and spending in line with the aspirations of the people of this ‘region’.

      As I said above my enquiry wasn’t related to criticism of the Labour Party’s social credentials, it was precisely that Ms Lamont was stating that we wouldn’t be any better off than anywhere else after voting ‘No’ in the referendum. She was clear about that in the Northern Echo. The proposals then are not a delivery of ‘more powers’ as presented to the ‘region’ of Scotland. Ergo my suggestion that Ms Lamont’s use of the word ‘propaganda’ was an inadvertent admission of her own party’s strategy to present these new powers as substantial to voters (Referendum), while expressing their lack of substance to non voters.

      To me it seems a rather strange comment you proffer at the close of your response to my enquiry: “We have no desire as a socialist party to seek for Scotland to gain at the expense of a neighbouring region of the UK”. I wasn’t under any impression or illusion that the referendum was somehow a competition between one region or another region in the UK. If you look back to Labour Party roots you will know that the Labour Party was the party of Home Rule, no greater an exponent being Keir Hardie. In more recent times I recall the Labour Party on the side of favouring the re establishment of the Scottish Parliament. I can’t for the life of me but wonder why a socialist party such as the Labour Party of which you represent, could think that this is about competition between regions and that Scotland’s choices would beggar other regions. If social gains were made that freed people from the inequities of the current paradigm in one part of these isles then the benefits would clearly be seen and felt by all others.

      I have a desire to be part of a better solution for all of us.

      Your sincerely

      I received a curt one line email in response to that, with no opening or closing salutations:

      Your email communication is acknowledged and your furtherr views have been noted.

      Ann McKechin M.P.

      (Yes, I was struck by the ‘furtherr’ typo too, genuine or freudian?…smirk)

    94. K1 says:

      I dared Cameron 🙂

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks for doing so. I reckon this was where you came a cropper.

      If social gains were made that freed people from the inequities of the current paradigm in one part of these isles then the benefits would clearly be seen and felt by all others.

      I know how important it is to convert Labour voters, but their party is an establishment puppet. They might offer an alternative to the neo-liberal consensus in Westminster, if they were anything other. A Scotland which shows there is actually an alternative, would probably result in a tiny minority of overly privileged individuals loosing some of their overabundant ‘social equity’. Can’t happen fast enough in my book. But there will be no revolution, sorry, meaningful social reform in England, until the English get off their butts.

    96. Thanks Rev.Stu for allowing me to see this stuff as I refuse to buy or fund BT with the price of a newspaper.

      Labour`s Torville and Dean moment :-

      Lamont and Sarwar – skating on their own skitters.

    97. K1 says:

      I see your point Cameron, but I wasn’t trying to convert labour voters I was challenging assertions by a Labour MP.

      I think the point I was making about the inequities of the current paradigm wasn’t aimed at Labour’s inherent ideological position, but more toward the concept of how people would view the changes that would take place in Scotland after Independence. I’m not advocating that any party would instigate anything of the sort, I’m suggesting that people sometimes really need a good example…and to that end…we are that example in this process.

      Of course the rUK need to see this for themselves, nevertheless, the subtext of my statement in the context of the email I sent was that people aren’t stupid, they know when a good thing is happening, ergo ‘seen and felt’, we can inspire…others can be inspired. It’s not about party ideology in that respect.

      Hope that makes sense:)

    98. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for using your comment to make my own personal point. I didn’t think you were making an ideological statement. It is just, I don’t really think our example is anything the establishment welcomes. I think they will learn lessons after loosing control over their cash cow. I don’t think the rUK has a particularly attractive future. I may be prejudiced though. 🙂

    99. CameronB Brodie says:

      Or to be more explicit, I think social reform will become even more of a pipe dream in rUK, after Scotland regains self-governance.

    100. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ll shut up after this, but in my opinion, Scotland has no moral obligation to limit it’s potential, in order to ‘shore up’ a country ten times it’s size. Instead, I think Scotland does have a moral obligation to look after it’s own, first. We can then provide a shining beacon of international cooperation and ethical foreign aid to non-EU nations. 🙂

    101. Iain Leitch says:

      So what else is new. Labour can say what they like Ed Milliband hasn`t a hope in hell of being the Rump UK`s next prime minister.The “give us your money” Tories along with UKIP nutcases will see to them.

    102. Caroline Corfield says:

      I live in the North East of England. It is listed in the graphs as one of the poorer areas of the UK of GB and NI. Near to me are the market town of Morpeth, the ex-industrial port of Blyth, Whitley Bay and Tynemouth. While Blyth has it’s problems it doesn’t look like Paisley, a town I know from the eighties during Thatcher. Paisley should look like Morpeth does. Even Whitley Bay has managed to drag itself up by the bootstraps and has been embarrassed by some of its inhabitants into applying for and spending money on its seafront.

      I’ve been visiting Clydebank and Knightswood a lot recently. I have watched Clydebank crash and burn, turn from an industrial town with good employment in the 70’s to a dormitory town with service industry jobs.

      The Tyne has a working dry dock and a ship repair yard, it has a number of North Sea infrastructure companies, Cleveland Bridge (despite the best attempts by that Australian company rebuilding Wembley) still exists. It has cargo facilities and North Sea ferries. The North East of England suffers from being a peripheral region to London but not as much as Scotland suffers for doing things differently.

      I’d be happy to see redistribution of wealth creation from the SE of England to the NE but I don’t see it happening soon. However I think it more likely that an independent Scotland, a place next door that would begin to prosper under its own control, would increase its trade with the NE and help create new jobs here.

    103. Ken500 says:

      What are Labour on about? Cutting Trident/redundant weaponry, putting a tax on ‘loss leading’ cheap alcohol, would save Scotland £3Billion.

      Scotland already pays £4Billion repayment to UK Treasury on monies it doesn’t borrow or spend. £3Billion surplus goes to Westminster. £7Billion How much more do they want? Having milked Scotland for years. Oil tax revenues at 80%, while multinationals tax evade through the City of London and pay not tax. Damaging British business.

      The Ghost train to nowhere HS2 is just a public money pit for Westminister MP’s and their associates. Absolutely no market or customer base. The population (without immigration) is falling. A subsidised junket.

      Scotland would better Independent, making it’s own decision which embrace different policies from Westminster.

    104. Ken500 says:

      What’s the Maryhill Food Bank’s address?

    105. Stuart Black says:

      Ken500: Sorry, just saw this now. The food bank has moved from the church along to an industrial unit at 61 Chapel Street. If coming up Maryhill Road from the town, turn first right after the Maryhill MacDonalds, then first left.

    106. Wee Copey says:

      Was just speaking to my husband earlier about the possibility of a no vote (god forbid) and I’ve decided that if Scotland decides on 18th September to let these Westminster knob jockeys keep raping Scotland with a no vote them I’m moving to another country.

      I can’t bear to watch my homeland be decimated by the people who are supposed to be caring for it. As a proud Scot (yes I’m Scottish and proud, not a cybernat or a Scottish nazi, just Scottish!) after months of investigation into this independence referendum (with wonderfully informative sites like WoS and others) I cannot for the life of me see why we, as a nation, would vote no!

      The scaremongering of the Bitter together team has been, quite frankly, disgusting. I’ve had so many discussions with friends and family who only believe what they have been reading in the papers and watching on the news who have left me with that look of “something is not adding up here” that, hopefully, some of them will investigate and discover for themselves the lies and deceptions that are occurring every day.

      Sorry for the rant but it’s getting to the point where I want to shout and scream WHY CANT YOU SEE!!! HOW MANY LIES WILL IT TAKE BEFORE YOU TRY AND FIND THE TRUTH.

      Signing off now with apologies.

    107. You and My Comb says:

      Can anyone point me in the direction of a figure that Labour intend to pool and share with big cities. I had, in my head, a figure of £4bn but can’t find a source for that figure. Of course it’s perfectly possible I am confused. Nevertheless any help would be appreciated as I want to kick someone’s backside on that birdy programme

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