Jim Murphy Debate Drinking Bingo!
Posted on
April 07, 2015 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
RULES:
One box: take a drink
Horizontal line: finish drink
Vertical line: finish bottle
Complete card: sing sectarian songs until arrested
What, no glue sniffing?
Oil price.
((((( MANSION TAX )))))
Shit, sorry, i meant ((((( HOUSE )))))
🙁
“Oil price” will probably be in the same sentence as “£7.6bn of cuts” 🙂
I foresee liver issues … possibly an NHS cri….*snip*
BREAKING NEWS 18.50 Tues 7-Apr: Jim Murphy wins STV leaders’ debate (Daily Record).
That’s the first 10 minutes covered. What have you got planned for the rest?
You forgot about this line:
“A wisnae on the UHU” and “Am a Scots Patriot”
Hic!
I just can’t wait to hear his soft calming tones. It must mean he is nice. Whatever he actually says.
Brilliant. I’ll be playing this tonight.
A couple of missing phrases:
“You know this to be true”
“Listen to me”
In soft creepy hammer house of horror voice –
“When was the last time the biggest party didn’t form the Govt?”
What about:
The polls are good news for the SNP, but great news for David Cameron.
When was the last time the biggest party didn’t form the government?
We’ll spend a billion POUND.
We’ll get rid of food banks.
I don’t remember ever sniffing glue.
Only Labour can be bigger than the Tories.
Degree? What degree?
#JimMurphyBApolitics(Failed)
Enjoy responsibly.
As a teetotaler { my brother is convinced I am adopted } watching Jim Murphy is extra tough without the veil of booze to hide behind. I shall have my wife tie me to the couch { for protection of TV not romance alas} wearing slippers as throwing shoes is harmful to said TV.
“I’m a member of the Henry Jackson society?”
Which will be the first year he mentions?
1924, 1979? Others?
Cost of living crisis
End the need for foodbanks
The kids who arent in college or uni or working
Eggs
If radio BBC in Scotland is anything to go by then he will be the only one who will actually get to utter words. Everyobody elses contribution will just be paraphrased by presenter. Morning peak and evening peak only Murphy gets to talk. But the coverage per party per minute will be even of cousre so no bias there then.
An honourable draw would be a result in a 3 vs 1 game. Smells of indyref#1.
My constituents will be the first to know.
‘since we created scotparl.’
Please let Nicola say “im proud to announce 2500 nurses…do I hear 3500 Jim?”
No one play this game on the eve of the vote!!
Oh well, may as well crack the bottle open now and get stuck in.
I don’t have enough bottles… 🙁
I just googled Jim Murphy, don’t ask, and he lists his nationality as Scottish British? Does this make him skittish? Will he decide which one he is after the election? British if he wins his seat and stays at Westminster, Scottish if he runs for Holyrood? Stange boy!
“Ah’m a Nationalist.”
“Ah’m no’ a Nationalist.”
According to circumstances.
I have work tomorrow, otherwise it seems to me to simply participate in this is a fast track to pishdom.
Murphy is a bullshit bingo machine. I think his mouth operates without the necessity to switch his brain on.
O/T I see Scot Goes Pop has another subset from the weekend…post debate and during memoflap (it doesn’t merit a full gate) and the lead is still 18 points. They don’t move much.
Trust in me, just in me
Shut your eyes and trust in me
You can sleep safe and sound
Knowing I am around
Slip into silent slumber
Sail on a silver mist
Slowly and surely your senses
Will cease to resist
Trust in me, just in me
Shut your eyes and trust in me.
Sang a snake once.
“Only Labour is big enough and strong enough……”
Tony Blair promised, 20 years ago, a Labour government would end Zero Hour Contracts. Hopefully Nicola will remind the viewers.
I think that ITV made a really good job of moderating the 7 party debate last week. Let’s see how fair and balanced STV is. They should have an easy job of only moderating 4 parties. Given Smugmurphy’s predilection for doing the shouty thing, at an ever increasing volume, I won’t hold my breath though. Even if it’s a hand picked audience, who are all wearing red NO THANKS knickers, have sweaty faces and bulging eyeballs, Nicola will kick their erses.
Sorry if you’ve read this twice, I put it in the wrong thread first time, short attention span!
Bomb Iraq?
If they dinnae have Leanne Wood…. I’m no’ watching it!
I wonder how long he will be able to keep his *ahem* soft voice going before it reverts to the Muph sound bite we all love … his shouty voice! 😀
Will this ultimate numpty be able to go through the entire debate without shouting at anyone or talking over anyone?
I seriously doubt either to be the case. 😉
I have to admit that I am more than a little pissed that Patrick Harvie is not included in the debate though. He is the Green leader in Scotland and actually sits in Holyrood unlike a certain Murphy.
Nice to see that STV are carrying on with the enforcment of ONE former independence party versus THREE
formerparties who are STILL unionists.That’s no’ fair, I have work in the morning and I can’t afford tae get blootered by polishing aff a whole bottle 😛
Thanks Stu, I needed something to smile about tonight.
I wonder how many of Camerons’s little helpers in the Scottish branch office of the labour party will be playing tonight
My money is on:
“Cameron’s little helpers”
I predict:
“The Labour Party is changing”
LOL, best laugh I’ve had in a long time!!
Very early on expect a fake, staged battle with Ruthie and possibly Wee Willie Winkie to show Jim’s “socialist credentials”.
Someone posted earlier about Alex saving someone from jumping out of a window in the previous thread ( could have been a turn of phrase)
Do not be surprised to see Murphy up a tree to rescue an old ladies cat or a fitba
Apologies for such an early O/T but i think a few might want to see this. Common Space journalist Liam O’Hare lets us know what happened in his interview with Muhammad Shoaib.
Starts in 10 minutes!
LIVE 7:30PM: Reporter Liam O’Hare discusses Muhammad Shoaib link to livestream.com
Go get him, Nicola
Bingo cards printed out, popcorn ready to go, heavy objects out of reach so Tv screen should
But Rev Stu : Ah dinna drink alcohol?
Mind you – neither does Murphy.
Of course Murphy tells porkies and I don’t and it sometimes gets me into trouble. Like when the late wife asked, “Does this dress make my …”, but that’s quite another story.
We played something like this at a few works weekly progress meetings and it was quite appropriately named BULLSHIT BINGO very apt for murphy
I have already finished my bottle.
Can I have another.
Oops, keyboard problems in last post. STV debate- it will be interesting to see the demographic this time round and how many Unionists will allowed to commemt unchallenged. Just hope Ponsonby is in good form.
Stu,
Setting it up so everyone gets blootered, lifted and won’t be about tomorrow…..you hankering for a day off?
I see the Guardian says that the A&E times in England are the worst for a decade. I wonder how that will play for Jim and his SNP=bad guff.
don’t forget:
‘narrow-minded nationalism’
‘you lost the referendum’
‘Scotland would have been bankrupt’
‘Vote SNP get the Tories’
‘no deal with the SNP’
‘moving Trident is pointless’
An end to exploitative zero hours contracts without actually explaining or being asked what he means by exploitative
If you get bored tonight with creepy Morphy’s biggest party wins bollox tonight, check out tv satire USA style, like what you never see here
link to youtube.com
So apart from the fact that creepy Murphy is clearly connected to the booze industry and of course wants drinking at Scottish football brought back too, what connects creepy Murphy and the top FIFA dudes that forced Brazil to lift their alcohol ban at Brazil’s football matches for 2014 World Cup.
Brazil also banned football match drinking because fans were getting killed, like in Scotland. FIFA, just like creepy Murphy, say too bad.
link to heraldscotland.com
@almannysbunnet says: 7 April, 2015 at 7:08 pm:
“I just googled Jim Murphy, don’t ask, and he lists his nationality as Scottish British? Does this make him skittish? Will he decide which one he is after the election? British if he wins his seat and stays at Westminster, Scottish if he runs for Holyrood?”
Sawaricht, almannysbunnet, his constituents will be the first to know.
I suggest the following “fillers” for any given subject:
“…big enough and ugly enough…”
“…I’m not going to lie to you…”
“…The real question here is…”
“…I’m not here to defend…”
“…Well, let me turn that question around…”
“…Combustible underwear? Me?…”
(maybe not that last one)
Scottish patriot–NAP 1/1000 on
Mr thms @ 7.12
Mr Blair may have said he would do away with zer-hours contracts but Jim is going to do away with ‘exploitive’ zero- hours contracts. So add ‘exploitive zero hours contracts to the bingo card.
The Guardian on-line has an excellent article today completely debunking ‘largest party always forms government. Sorry no link.
Finally CH4 news web site has an article on MPs who have, once again, got into trouble over expenses. Oor Jim features on the list. He seems to have been renting out a property in London bought with our help while claiming expenses for hotels etc.
Nearly forgot, tonight’s bonus prizewinner –
“VILE ABUSE!”
Great start to the broadcast, well worth watching if your interested in 1st hand accounts rather than 3rd or 4th!
LIVE 7:30PM: Reporter Liam O’Hare discusses Muhammad Shoaib link to livestream.com
I said a few months back labour would unleash the Messiah.
True to form, War crimes Bliar the man who did away with the Magna Carta under his watch, ascends from the ashes of the party to try and conquer the electorate.
I don’t know if he still lives on Earth, because obviously he has no idea how out of touch Labour are.
Gary
Ah did ah hunner toons during the referendem campain.
‘Complete card: sing sectarian songs until arrested’
ha ha ha ha
” .. but you know that Nicola”
F### off f### off f### off! Hope they’ve got the bleeper ready! 🙂
Is the debate on the radio? I won’t get home in time to watch it.
“I want the whole world to be free of nuclear weapons, but….”
-1000 more nurses.
-zero hours contracts.
-free tuition fees.
-no one in Scotland wants the tories.
-no one is a more Scottish than me.
-I saved the day at the Cluthie bar.
But his piece de resistance will be to constantly interrupt and talk over his opponent, mainly Nicola, to put her off her stride.
He’ll be playing for a score draw using this tactic.
Of course he’ll have his unionist chums gunning for her too, so I hope she is prepared for them.
mandela 7/4
slept in cupboard drawer as a baby 4/5
Blootered due to the bingo – so not having a LICENCE do I assume that the WOS Twitter feed is the next best thing or will there be a running commentary on this thread?
Oh geez, I’m not looking forward to this at all.
A 3 litre bottle of Super Strength Cider awaits.
@Legerwood at 7:34 – Like it!
Good question for Jim: “Who has the last word on whether a zero-hours contract can be deemed to be exploitative? The exploiter, or the exploited?”
In the French farce story by The Telegraph willing commentator Jim Murphy said “”It’s deja-vu, all over again”.
If he says that again tonight I will open up the emergency Laphroaig and have a double.
sectarian songs but what if you dont know them can i sing flower of Scotland instead im pretty good at that when i am blootered.
I hope Nicola points out that the 3 people she is debating are not actual leaders of their party and dont really have a say in UK policies just get told what to do from head office in London,then watch them all go mental.
All words or phases to add to your “Bullshit Bingo” Card.
Significant,
Hard working families.
Break up the union,
Austerity,
Vote SNP get the Tories
A vote for Cameron,
Ad Nausium……
I’m away to have a laugh at slimy Jim on the TV debate……
A late entry…
“my size 13 feet”
Whiskey and tumbler ready.
Contenders ready.
alexicon says:
But his piece de resistance will be to constantly interrupt and talk over his opponent, mainly Nicola, to put her off her stride.
It’s up to Ponsonby to take control. If he fails to keep Murphy in line, it will make for a rather boring debate.
Ah did 99 toons and Hamilton twice in the referendum campaign.
Ah BULLSHIT BINGO how appropriate for mr murphy
Evoking fuzzy warm labour days of old memories of John Smith\Donald Dewar
The 70s just called and want Brian the Lib Dem back
“I’m no a unionist”
That deserves a crate of Claret all to itslf.
WOW a liberal democrat supporter…that’s a rare bird. 🙂
Jim putting the mawkish into Murphy
OMFG!
any links to debate without signing it to stv account
Midsomer Murders here in England ITV and STV make you sign up with your name, address, email:=(
I have 5 pounds sterling on :
Pooling and sharing.
Has Ruth gave up the kickboxing? Looks like someone has thrown a DFS sofa on to the stage.
Come on Wullie..say childcare in every answer
20:16 and Jim gets everyone slurping while Nicola boots him senseless
1924–BINGO
You missed “We’re the underdogs” Stu, sure to come up
I have 10 pounds sterling on him not saying:
I was recruited by the CIA shortly after being demobbed from BOSS .
Round one!
Nicola in with jab, jab, right hook!
JM, biggest party crossed off, bottle gone.
Popping out for more supplies, he is going for the full set of possibilities!
Astonishing!
Barcekonaaaaaaa!!!!
Fitbaw…slurp
Brown shoes and black suit is one of the biggest fashion mistakes a man can make. Jim’s image advisers have slipped up there.
Is the audience hypnotized? The look and sound dead.
Murphy looking all lost and nervous when Sturgeon is kicking his ass and he doesn’t know the camera’s on him. Doing his usual thing of constantly appealing to the host for the chance to speak.
WTF was that swivel eyed unionist on about? Murphy’s been shouting over everyone since the start!
Well this debate is bullshit already – totally one sided audience and panel and presenter. Fucking raging
Media advisors instilled in metro centric mentality report it is now high fashion in Londinium!
Dim Jim has already shot his bolt (1924) and was effectively nailed by Sturgeon quoting him from 2010 when Gordon spent a week in No ten trying make a deal! Whaaaaa! Haaa!
PS: This debate is already sterile and dying a death…
It’s 3 v 1, what a fuckin joke.
Hic!
That should be you grounded for the night, Paula. 😉
Jings, the adverts are sounding more sincere than old Murph.
Kevin Evans says:
7 April, 2015 at 8:26 pm
Well this debate is bullshit already – totally one sided audience and panel and presenter. Fucking raging
Huge number of lesser spotted tories in the audience, but then again they usually are over-represented at these events.
Guy who just complained about Nicola talking too much reminded me of the Indy debate.
Darling had harangued and pointed and interrupted and then a guy stunned all by complaining that Alex salmond had been rude and arrogant.
So we’re in Mbra and it’s the blue NO THANKS knickers in the audience who have the bulgey eyes so far.
Will you accept SNP help to keep Tories out?
The question that will haunt Jim Murphy for next four weeks
Round one, Nicola lands a good right re. When was the last time…..
This fight has still to hot up.
Awno, Wee Ruthie, giving us we were Left a note 5,years ago, is there a Tory that hasn’t told that stupid anecdote
Ruth the unelected msp is pretty good at this. Still hate her tho!
Heedtracker, the debates open world wide. Im watching from italy . Heres the link. link to news.stv.tv
[…] Jim Murphy Debate Drinking Bingo! […]
Good question, there. At least register a response even if you know you’ll lose to the government numbers. Anyone looking back at the voting numbers in the future would think there was no opposition.
Sheesh!
Wee Rennie as much the wee nyaff as usual.
Wee Rurthie telling porkies , “We have reduced the deficit”. Err! No Ruthie you have not reduced the deficit as the National debt is bigger than when the Tory Government came to office. BTW: Getting more people into work doesn’t count when they are on zero hours contracts or on minimum, not a living, wage.
Dim Jim still telling porkies no need to point out which ones.
Nakamura-think it was the same guy! Looked similar.
Nicola was cutting off people too much imo which can put some people off. Audience does seem to have many unionists / tories.
Nicola just needs to stick to the facts and did well getting in the mention that labour won’t commit to an anti Tory block.
Strange Ruth hasnt mentioned the soaring debt itself but rattles on about deficit reduction…
And why is a guy in audience wearing a hat and fake moustache?
Phew Bernard, you are so interesting……. Possibly the most boring format of debate ever. I hope somebody comes on and asks where Patrick Harvey is…..
Have they been pumping gas in to anaesthetise the audience? I’m concerned people may be dying of boredom.
Well said Robert Peffers, the Tories are such liars over the debt
Shouldn’t there be a bonus box?
“As Marx and Engels argued in the Communist Manifesto …”
Anyone see the very suspect character late 40’s / 50’s greyish hair with black hat and very black fake moustache on in the audience?
The creepsters not got much to say,but that doesn’t stop him bumping his gums.Ruthie much the same.Willies at the wrong venue.
Jeez. Jim does a Tony Blair and takes his jacket off and rolls his sleeves up!
Desimond-is it Stu Campbell in disguise?!
Signed up, what a bore. We get it, save teamGB, dont vote SNP.
Anybody see the guy in the audience with the black trilby and fake moustache? Keep an eye on him.
Holy cow – the audience claps like mad for murph when he’s being introduced! The audience is stacked!
Please keep us updated down here!
I’m crying with laughter at the comments.
The audience is stacked!
Of course it is – they could not afford another NS victory.
I hope STV have security on the look out for the SNP out brigade rockets…At least make sure Deerin is feeling okay. 😀 😀
Common People by Pulp to be Jims theme tune after “Fanfare for the Common Man and Conmon Woman” doesnt scan
Cost of living..slurp
Oh dear fake tache is desperate to ask a question! Scared he’s got a gun or something!
Jim Murphy relates the tale of a woman who has two jobs and two daughters coming to see him. He tells how she bursts into to tears as she tells him how she can’t afford a pair of shoes for her oldest daughter.
It must have stuck in her craw relating this hardship to a man who she knows has made over £300,000.00 in wages during the last parliamentary season and has claimed over £1 million in expenses but who was incapable of helping her.
Maybe if he was a Samaritan, instead of a parasite sucking the taxpayers dry, he’d have put his hand in his pocket. Maybe if she could have issued a receipt for him to get it back in expenses he might have done so.
God I’d rather watch paint dry! This is absolutely dire.Audience is chronic – where the hell did they find these people? Even the prospect of getting a full house isn’t enough for me to carry on. If this is the best stv can do I won’t be watching the rest and they are broadcasting this world wide? God help us all.
What a mess. Murphy looks quite mad, wild staring eyes, strong urge to fly.
Check out the direction when murphy is speaking. When it’s topics where he’s serious there’s a slow zoom in by the camera and he’s positioned perfectly. I think this has been prepared. No way could direction and editing like that be luck – I work daily in the film industry so I know
Best thing about the audience so far is the bloke in the false moustache and hat combo.
Did this guy not vote to renew trident?
want a selfie with tash guy
The Tories have reduced the deficit.
They have not reduced the debt, because that is the cumulative total of many years of deficits.
To reduce the debt would require turning deficit into surplus; to eliminate it would take many years of such surpluses.
For what’s left of my sanity, I’ll just have a wee drink (I’m on holiday) and forget the bingo. Turned over and tuning out.
I’ll just follow the comments here.
Armed Forces thank you…wee Ruthie must be raging that Jimbo beat her to it.
Thousands rely on nuclear weapons…and we enter Pishville
This debate is bollocks
Did someone in the audience just say that Trident is responsible for 10,000 jobs? That is a load of old bollocks.
It’s not a debate about the 2015GE is a repeat obviously of the referendum. Don’t they get it. Hold on I think they do
Oops it is a debate about the 2015GE
Didn’t think I’d ever say this,but I was was embarrassed for Murphy during the questioning. That was absolutely dire and toe curling.
The guy in the fedora and fake moustache is Carmichael attending incognito?
Or perhaps George Galloway has grown in some of his designer stubble?
Or perhaps Vince Cable is attending incognito?
Has the audience been drugged? The questions are dire with one ex navy type booting Murphy for wanting to scrap Trident! A good example there of the level intelligence required to get into the navy there! And what’s up withe the woman with the hat and fake moustache?????
Jeez the debate sucks big time, especially when some twat states that getting rid of Nuclear subs in Scotland will affect tourism!
Didn’t realise Trident was a tourist attraction
Just remember what every single poll has been saying for months and measure that up to what STV have hilariously chose as their ‘representative’ audience.
Doesn’t matter a fuck how it goes down in that STV selected studio, what matters is how Nicola comes across to that massive support she now has which every single poll confirms. 🙂
Almannysbunnet @7.08,
If he was a Shetlander and British.
He would be Sh*ttish
Can’t watch the debate live, did the tortoise start with
Hi, my names Jim but everybody calles me FUD?
Gary
Murphy looked anxious throughout his session and his false bonhomie is cringeworthy but he should have taken great comfort that, surprisingly, he got more applause before he even spoke.
This audience has the look and sound of a stacked deck.
“Anyone see the very suspect character late 40’s / 50’s greyish hair with black hat and very black fake moustache on in the audience?”
Dunky Hottersall?
One Jim Morphy tells us he wants to scrap Trident multilaterally with USA and Russia, then straight away the another Jim Morphy tells us he’s NOT planning to scrap Trident. Condused.com.
What a fool he is:D
Noticed the audience clapping like mad when Murph took to speak and immediately thought something is up.
Not a single clap for the most popular politician in the UK? I call bullshit.
The audience is very stacked
all white including suspect character in false moustache
No audience round of applause for Nicola..the most popular politician in UK…a loaded audience looks obvious
Andrew is a Tory prick
What was the story on Patrick Harvey not being there? I’m SNP, but I always enjoy listening to Patrick
Yes the tories have lined us up for another recession by restoring private debt to pre-recession levels. Win win for the banks as they’re bailed out. Lose lose for the tax payer.
First question to Nicola comes from the guy who had complained earlier about her talking too much !
A wee bit of info from the BoE today:
The deficit.
“The current account deficit – which reflects the gap between money paid out by the UK and money brought in – improved in the final quarter, narrowing to just over £25bn. But that was still worse than expected and the total 2014 figure was the worst for more than 60 years. For the 2014 year as a whole, the deficit totalled £98bn, equal to 5.5% of GDP – the biggest deficit since records began in 1948. ”
The debt is what Britain borrows and pays back with interest. Over 1.5 trillion now, IIRC.
Drinks 😀
Having just watched Mr Murphy on Scotland debates and watched the grovelling he can achieve, my god it’s demeaning and embarrassing. This charlatan could get under a snakes belly with a top hat on.
Pass the sickbag!
Murphy caring and sharing and sooking up. He gives insincerity a bad name!
Nicola beset by the same clown who saidshe spoke too much. A Unionist fanatic!
2 bites of the cherry? Whats going on here?
A photo of the guy in the fake tache:
link to twitter.com
This debate is awful, a shocker.
This debate is beyond awful
Unionist lecturing Nicola on debt now, looks like a Monty Python character
A Tory cabal in the audience. Block of 20 of them,centre stage.
I think the audience is told beforehand not to applaud etc. Audience was silent at the debate on ITV last week apart from one or two occasions.
Noticed a Unionist hand clapping when something was said, the camera cut to the crowd to right hand side from the stage. All looked middle age(ish) and all were enthusiastically clapping away. Their grouping looked like a bus group, who had all came in together.
I remember something similar during Indy, on STV, the polling companies select the audience, seems they still do, and in the same way.
Anyone else wish the general election was tomorrow?
Ex Navy…ex RAF…we could have had Armed Forces Bingo
This a fuckin’ gang up!
More than 55% audience groaning about referendums after 2016….
Has the man with the moustache asked his question yet? Did he have a Yorkshire accent – possibly disguised, but breaking through?
I think it’s William Hague, bored with retirement already – though the twitter picture shows someone rather taller, perhaps.
I suspect there has been Labour plants bused up from down south into the Audience
Second English accented audience member (red shirt) to ask Nicola stupid question
All Nicola’s questions have been pre moderated and allowed…STV are a shower of crap as far as I’m concerned.
Complete stitch up this debate
Yep, STV has made another complete mess of a simple debate format and this is after their staggeringly ignorant exclusion of Patrick Harvie and the greens.
Mebbes they should stick to reality TV shite since they keep making such a pigs ear of supposedly serious political programmes.
“Andrew” in the audience getting his third shottie at speaking.Not good,Mr Ponsonby.
That guy with the fake tache is a civil servant.
He was meant to be at a gig up the street but the directions got lost in translation. 😉
Dodgy as fuck this programme. Think I spotted that the guy has took the fake mouser off.
Here’s a wee historic fact. In the Great Depression the USA kept getting deeper into the mire until they started to finance massive public works like the Great Grand Coolie Dam, trans-USA highways and so on.
Then, of course, they took the chance of WWII to first sell us arms and other goods under the a policy of cash on demand and the buyer transport it away and when the UK funds ran out the Lend/Lease scheme. A matter that we didn’t pay off until a few years ago BTW: both those schemes began with the words, “In Defense of the US”. In other words they knew it was also their fight. The also exchanged 50 clapped out WWI destroyers for several UK overseas bases that the USA still has but some of the old destroyers couldn’t make it over the pond.
Someone keep me awake and I don’t know where they got the “representative audience” from.
Motherwell winning 3 – 0 against St Mirren
Where the hell did they get so many English folk. No asians , Africans or Chinese , but English voices and accents galore.
Fuckin disgraceful STV.
Debate awful. Audience dim. Unionists bussed in. Enigmatic man in fake moustache remains aloof.
Standard STV crap.
If last week’s debate was the dogs’ bollocks, this one is the horses’ arse.
Christ, now Rennie is saying there is an economic recovery? WTF!
Yep, heard that groan when another referendum was mentioned.pretty loud. A good indicator of bias.
If the polls are to be believed, then this is by no means an ordinary audience.
Jim Murphy Debate Drinking Bingo! F ck off F ck off F ck off. And the winner is Pete Wishart.
Wullie walks so far into the camera he is in 3-D
That is Keith Lemon in the tache shirley?
Murphy’s left eyebrow is going mental.
Is that a sign of some kind of illness?
Rennie trying to fight his way out a corner here almost trying to walk of stage with embarrassment with a big beemer coupon!
By the way whats the score with the tash male or female?
This will be remembered for the mystery moustache and very little else. Nicola giving Murphy’s boss Ed another pasting will be far more newsworthy and entertaiing.
Unless mystery moustache throws an egg at Murphy this will easily go down as the most poorly thought out, inept and dull debate format so far. STV fucked it up big style.
Bailed out of the so called debate..Ponsonby interrupting Nicola when she tries to answer a question..
Very pro union audience..where the hell do they find these people..
murphy kicked off with the IM Jolly voice sob story
Its a bring Nicola back down to earth debate…not for me thank you…xxx
There are 2 ways to reduce a deficit.
1) reduce spending
2) increase revenue.
The second can be achieved by increased taxation and/or increased growth. The problem is that when you’ve a large public sector spending reduction can actually have a negative impact on growth sometimes to the extent that it is counter productive. Increased taxation can also have a negative effect, for instance in the case of our oil industry where it was squeezed to such an extent that little was left for investment.
very poor debate, but lib dem taking a good kicking now
Paul McWeller is tearing into Wee Wullie
At least three middle and upper middle class audience tories get at least three questions for Sturgeon, plus their own speech’s, but she deals with it.
Why does red and blue tory boy teamGB think WMD’s will save them but no other country in the EU has Trident bar France, 40 miles from Englandshire?
Not even the EU countries that can actually afford Trident want Trident, is another teamGB tory world mystery.
This is a ‘balanced’ audience? Ye gods. Looks like the Morningside Conservatives’ night out. That Andrew – Nicola talks too much – should take a leaf out of his own Unionist book.
Another Unionist trap for Nicola –
three + Ponsonby + STV camera crew + STV Director/Producer versus Nicola.
So Bernie Boy isn’t rushing Rennie along the way he did with Nicola after every fuckin’ question she was asked!!
They have circled their wagons with this, every member of the audience seems to be a tory or labour or people pretending they voted libdems.
Sigh…
Terrible, fukin terrible debate.
Who picked this audience, moronic or what?
Disaster for STV. Sack the effin producer.
Format is terrible. STV must have lost have the audience by now.
Poor old Willie Rennie – he’s getting all the hard questions and FINALLY the audience wakes up a bit. But yes indeed this is 100% a rigged show.
Inspector Clouseau is obvious but where is Kato?
Last week’s debate was much better, this one’s just dull, apart from the few moments when it’s annoying.
Strange but true …… the same guy can be part of audience in Indy and GE debates on STV.
Dame Edna had a phrase for it …….”spooky”
Wish Murphy got grilled like Rennie did.
Willie Rennie.Comedy Gold.
Audience member says “why did you dump all your Liberal values?”…Willie Rennie answers “sorry”
Ya know that fear folk we’re going on about that labour and the establishment were feeling. Well I’ll tell yous this right now.
If that audience is representative about the poeple of Scotland am I shitting myself with fear. If that is a fair and balanced Scottish society we are a evil, nasty, horrible, selfish nation and we should be ashamed of ourselves. I am sitting here petrified listening to the selfishness of people. Evil nasty horrid shower of bastards.
The haves and have nots
This debate is the worst I ave ever watched STV. Should ask for their money back from the polling company who picked the audience , is it any wonder we lost the ref. after listening to these bunch of clowns
This debate is audience rigged, end of.
Ye should jump onto Limmy @daftlimmy twitter feed.
EASILY the best thing to come out of this STV farce.
VERY funny! 😀
I said the ITV debate would be a hard act to follow. Massive fail by STV. They really do take us for mugs. Message to STV, it didnae work!
What’s the ratio of English accents to Scottish ones in the audience? Seems far too many of the former.
Something stinks.
Valerie says:
7 April, 2015 at 8:55 pm
What was the story on Patrick Harvey not being there? I’m SNP, but I always enjoy listening to Patrick
Agree – it’s shocking, and leading to a totally unbalanced audience, especially when it comes to the constitution and nuclear bombs.
Right – what’s the hell is going on -why is every second question coming from a person with an English accent?????
Truly dreadful format. Let Bernard suck all the engagement out of this bothersome politics thing. Questions and questioners are dire. Move along, nothing to see here. Best vote the way yer Labour dad did since we haven’t had any real answers… What a set up.
Is the leader of the Scottish Lib Dems the first Rennie that actually GIVES you indigestion!
Abolish need for food banks…slurp
Disgusting – the next GE we’ll be talking about what to do with the underclass of society – Ya know those people who used to have jobs and a life and a living.
This is destruction of the UK and thanks to the fuckin no voters scotland is gettin dragged down with it
This is just a re-run of the tactics we saw during Indy.
Nicola is on enemy territory, and badly outnumbered.
STV are not treating this as a General Election, but as a Referendum.
Programme should have been called ‘Let’s get Nicola’.
highlight last 90 mins
my haddock risotto
krackerman says:
7 April, 2015 at 9:19 pm
Right – what’s the hell is going on -why is every second question coming from a person with an English accent?????
Any insomniacs out there interested in playing it back and counting the accents? Tell me in the morning – I’ve had enough!
To stand up for our English posters on here, what’s the problem with English accents?
Anybody see the guy in the audience with the black trilby and fake moustache?
A photo of the guy in the fake tache:?
suspect character in false moustache
black hat and very black fake moustache in the audience?”
Best thing about the audience so far is the bloke in the false moustache and hat combo.
Fake or not it’s dyed by ‘Just for Men’ 🙂
Nicola has watched The Sum of All Fears
If you want to beat USA and Russia you dont fight them..you get them to fight each other
Joemcg says:
7 April, 2015 at 9:24 pm
To stand up for our English posters on here, what’s the problem with English accents?
Nothing whatsoever – but is it nor strange there are so few scottish accents?
Am starting to feel sorry for Jim. Maybe that’s his tactic
Valerie wrote:
“What was the story on Patrick Harvey not being there? I’m SNP, but I always enjoy listening to Patrick”
For 30+ years i have voted for the SNP at every level, local, national and European. I don’t believe in “tactical” voting but since the referendum i’ve been seriously contemplating this for the very first time in my life.
This utter crap of shutting out a very important political player does not sit comfortably with me and has riled me that much it has helped me to decide.
Next year my first vote goes to the SNP and my 2nd to the Greens.
STV – GIRFUY, AND YER FILTHY CORRUPT UNION.
Hotting up now -Ruthie and Dim Jim ready for a square go. My money is on Ruthie she has the weight advantage
Jim has answered every economy question with “ahhatefoodbanks”
Perhaps the enigmatic man in fake moustache is a performance artist. Maybe his tash is a metaphor for Britain’s sham democracy?
Luigi-well there are 400,000 of them up here!
Re the deficit.
To reduce the deficit each month, the government effectively has to run a surplus. Where does that come from? The private sector.
So the private sector must expand in order to 1) service the government debt and 2) to actually grow the economy.
How does the private sector do this? It has to borrow from banks – openly encouraged by government through schemes such as help to buy etc.
As a result our private debt levels in the UK are where they were in 2007 – pre-recession. It was default on private debt that cause the financial crisis.
Salaries have stagnated since the recession yet the government wants us to increase our personal debt further.
So the government scores an own goal. Two things can happen
1) the private sector (we) can take a reality pill and stop borrowing – reducing the size of the economy in the private sector ( banks effectively remove the money we repay from the economy)
2) borrow so much we default and we end up in yet another recession.
Either way that money flowing into the government purse stops and they end up having to bail out the economy anyway.
In short there is ZERO logic to aggressive austerity.
Oh sleakit Jim answers an oil investment question with a sly dig and grin about snp oil prices predictions
Futures Fund for driving lessons for the young…deary me..vote winner
Chucked it.
Yes this is a poor debate, hideous unionist bias from the audience. Is there any meaning in Ruth’s red jacket and Whispering Jim’s blue shirt?
Jim thanks NHS…boke!
Labour abolished tuition fees….hooray!!
Joemcg says:
7 April, 2015 at 9:32 pm
Luigi-well there are 400,000 of them up here!
Sure, and every single one of them is welcome!
There’s the tuition fees lie FFS.
The audience looks like a Better Together reunion night out.
“Scotland voted NO last year and that should be the end of it”
CAN THIS STOP ALREADY PLEASE
For those of you who believe the polls will miraculously change inexplicably at some point, if that is to happen, then now is the hour, this is when the dodgy polls will start to appear.
Be vigilant folks.
😉
Who is in this audience
Clapping Ruth wanting prescription fees reinstated
OMG this is not a debate, it’s an absolute disgrace.
Fair play to Ruth, at least she’s trying to address the two faced lies of Jim Murphy.
This is depressing viewing…
Jim Morphy on right now needs to be pulled off for another Jim Morphy. This Jim Morphy waffling incoherent gibberish, so much incoherent gibberish, a trap door should open under him and save any more embarrassment.
This Jim Morphy is so insanely bad he may need reprogramming.
Is that wee lassie related to the Asian who changed allegiance today.” I’m voting for big Jim”aye right.
Wullie asked about Education and NHS and goes on about The Police and rants Nicola doesnt reply to his points…this is getting shambolic
ha ha ha ha ha.
Look at the concerted attack by the establishment on Nicola Sturgeon.
Truly co-ordinated.
Fuck this Union. Fuck the Establishment. Fuck the MSM and Fuck every No voter who entombed us in this hell.
Nurses. more of them.1000’s of them the day we win. English mansions will pay gladly.
That Magic woodwork that fairies live in will supply them, honestly!!
Nice of STV to stage the debate in Basingstoke..
Oh come on, you know whit?
WTF do you expect? That this time it would be different?
GET REAL!!!!!!
They hate us. Just don’t go there.
Never mind these turkeys.
Just keep doing what we do and some.
votes count. not these plodders.
poor debate, crap, STV highjacked the content
Jim refuses to work with SNP…just without actually saying it.
Spin City
This is a GE2015 debate. Nicola should have stressed this point up front and not got dragged into defending devolved government. I think she has fallen into a trap.
Jim Murphy burns. Ah well.
Who was Murphy nodding at when the camera panned onto him when Nicola was speaking?
It looked like he was being prompted by someone in that freaky audience..could it be that man in that hat?…xxx
Can understand how anyone might see this as totally unbalanced, English accents lovely, I have one, but my god sometimes it’s all I hear in central Edinburgh, I love the Scottish accent and as I live in Scotland, kind of expect to hear it sometimes.
No tv, but why are they having this ‘debate’ is this Indy ref #2? Looks like it, WM establishment are fg terrified, as are their followers in Scotland. Attack and demonise is the only way they operate, the silent no lot are coming oot the woodwork now though?
Jim…yes or no
Foodbanks!!
3 against 1.
bernard is a weakling .
Joe – nothing wrong with the English just so bloody many. At least 3/4 of the older questioners have no Scots accent. No African or Chinese or Asian . Edinburgh is a mixed bag but this is ludicrous .
Union propaganda STV style
Saying that Nicola has handled herself well.
Hurry up May and we can say cheerio to most of them
We are all reading the big book of facts,
while Murphy, Rennie & Miss 1800 votes Davidson,
are reading from the Unionist book of make believe.
They would be as well saying that 1+1=6.
Conclusion – they dare not tell the truth,
while the Emperor shivers ‘cos he’s got nothing on.
Still awful
I’ll say one thing I never thought STV had it in them to be more pro Union than the bbc
The three unionists are getting the floor…Nicola barely a moment…
This is a total set up. STV are a shower of utter bastards.
Interrupting Nicola before she even has a go…I cannot believe the shame faced unbelievable set up that this is.
He is getting free reign to attack Nicola right out. Here comes Ruth again, it’s just SNP attack attack attack.
They have raised every single devolved issue that has come up over that past six months.
Jim Murphy is a total devious bastard. This is totally personal from him.
And Bernard Ponsonby and the entire production have known this from the start.
This is terrible….and surely not representative of the Scottish people???!!! Murphy is awful. Not to be trusted.
Many a mention of ‘progressive’ policies, few enumerated.
Ya know I know 100% sure the Tory way of running the country benefits me as a business owner but I can’t sleep at night knowing people are starving in this country, poverty.
Ffs people throw the westminster parties out now
Well, most telling was Murphy not giving a yes or no answer. Probably the highlight along with the mystery tash.
Trying again.
Can understand how anyone might see this as totally unbalanced, English accents lovely, I have one, but my god sometimes it’s all I hear in central Edinburgh, I love the Scottish accent and as I live in Scotland, kind of expect to hear it sometimes.
No tv, but why are they having this ‘debate’ is this Indy ref #2? Looks like it, WM establishment are fg terrified, as are their followers in Scotland. Attack and demonise is the only way they operate, the silent no lot are coming oot the woodwork now though?
Did anybody see the fella in the back row with the grey shirt on having a crafty wee siesta when Ruth was giving her final thoughts…………oooft!!
Nicola the ablest.
Murphy the creepiest.
Ruthie joint equal toriest.
Willie the dopiest.
Thank God that’s over !
Hullo! I’m wee Wullie Rennie, I’m not like they others, I’m jist a nice wee guy……..dae ye like ma pink tie! 🙂
Interesting point from Craig Murray:
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Thank god its nearly over. STV don’t do tv debates sadly. Great to see so many posh English voters laying into Sturgeon. That always wins the day. Morphy really really bad though, even with plant convert in audience. Macternan/MacDougal must be thrilled with that display.
Yup, after watching that diatribe (thanks STV) I’m still waiting for one party leader to make me not vote SNP and ‘Nic.
I know exactly who Tache Man is – he’s a very good friend of mine and a total Yesser with a crazy sense of humour….
Couldn’t believe it when I saw him sitting there!
A Dundonian rock god, so he is…..
Does anyone know how the audience was distributed? I get the feeling that it was on 2010 vote distribution despite it being a Scottish leader debate THAT WAS ALSO THE WORST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN AND I WATCHED MOST OF TRON LEGACY
I would really like to be in the room at SNP HQ
when this mess is reviewed.
Did no one at HQ see this coming?
Jim citing Nicola as Hysterical was rather sexist choice of words
This whole contrived “debate” turns out to be a bit of a joke.
No big deal, Nicola was the only sane one and as for Dim Jim? No comment.
“What’s the ratio of English accents to Scottish ones in the audience? Seems far too many of the former.”
“Nothing whatsoever – but is it not strange there are so few scottish accents?”
You gentlemen might be interested in this:
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Did I hear Jim Murphy say “Nicola yi’ll get aff wi that shite in Engerlund but not up here?” Seriously Jim!? Murphy was toast before, now he’s burnt toast. What a pitiful performance. Heartened at the end when Nicola got the loudest applause of the night after her final speech. She was fitted up but it fooled nobody.
Did Mr Murphy really say that we should keep Trident because Iran is developing nuclear weapons?
I thought all the high level diplomacy over the last few weeks was about Iran agreeing not to develop nuclear weapons.
Or was that just another case of something ‘lost in translation’?
I do not think I heard one identifiable SNP person asking any question. Tells a story, as I said before the polling companies select the audience, during a STV Indy debate, people thought it was obviously a anti Indy audience.
Same difference here it is Unionist based. Ie stop SNP at all costs.
Wullie Rennie saved his best line for the end… he said, “Vote for EVERYTHING… Vote LibDem.” I shit youse not.. that is exactly what the wee numpty actually said…
I was half watching this (on my iPad whilst writing something else on my computer) and it looked like an incredibly dull evening. There were even a few empty seats, so keen were the hoi polloi to come and hear Jim, Willie and Ruthie. Completely without any passion except for Nicola, though I did think Ruthie came across well. I don’t agree with her, but she did at least put some heart and oomph into what she said. The trouble with Ruthie though is that she’s an ingenue, she can’t remember Thatcher and seems to have been raised in some sleepy hollow where Thatcher’s dark hand never stretched.
“I was undecided, but Jim Murphy has just convinced me, I agree with everything he is saying, I’ll be voting Labour”.
PLANT ALERT!!!!!!!
PLANT ALERT!!!!!!!
PLANT ALERT!!!!!!!
This person must be found, before she does any harm to herself.
Morningside bowling club on mogadon? Where the feck did STV get this audience? It is almost like a Chewing the Fat spoof “I’m only here for the patter”
That said the whole format is turgid. I think STV have probably killed any notion of anyone else watching another debate. I am interested in politics and this bored the pants off me.
Craig Murray nails it. A total ambush of the SNP planned by the programme makers who seem to have bussed in most of England to give them a “representative” audience that had little to do with the current political debate in Scotland.
Embarrassing show and even then Murphy looks a bit of a loony with all that help.
Sorry: I exited stage left as soon as I heard the audience clapping for Murphy as he was being announced for his questions…My nostrils flared (Karen Dunbar syndrome) and I knew then it was a set up.
Format poor and dry as dust. 🙁
Watched footie instead. Good game!
I see from the thread others thoughts were similar. No P Harvie and 3 V 1 as usual. Par for the course.
meh. It’ll have shite viewer figures anyway since STV fucked it up so badly but at least Nicola was more than good enough to easily see off the london branch office ‘scottish’ leaders from the unionists.
There will probably be a couple out of touch lunatics and westminster bubble twats who think Davidson being a bit shouty will herald some massive resurgence in tory fortunes in scotland. The precise same out of touch lunatics who thought Goldie would do the same in 2010 and now there are more pandas than scotish tory MPs. 🙂
Hearing VERY encouraging things from the SNP in Mundell’s seat and the latest polling showed an SNP win is indeed on the cards.
So feel free to laugh loudly at any bullshit about tory surges in scotland after that inept ‘debate’ format. 😀
Jim Murphy:
“This lady came in to my office, sat down in front of me and burst out crying…”
Don’t be so hard on yourself Jim, you’re no that scary lookin, ur ye?
Great to hear the applause and cheering for Nicola after her summing-up. Must have stuck in STV’s craw after they’d set up the audience.
Murphy was a disgrace. If I don’t like what you’re saying I’ll just shout you (i.e. NS) down. And Ponsonby let him.
Talking of the audience, how come no black or Asian or Oriental faces? Might be representative of a UKIP meeting, but hardly of our capital city.
should of played Russian roulette
Daft looking lassie asks “what would you do to keep edumication free friver, and how would you guarantee the NHS stayed ehm, looks sideways, not private. Over to you Jim “We in the labour party got rid of tuition fees, and wee babies are born in the NHS and that’s the first time we see the NHS or something.” Bernhard “Well wee lassie what do you think?” wee daftie “oh he’s fair convinced me,” “convinced you of what?” says Bernhard. “Am now voting labour.” GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK (that’s me shouting at the telly.)
We’ll done Nicola, puting Scotland first. Can’t believe the guy that accused NIcola of talking too much, then went onto ask two of the longest questions ever witnessed on TV.
TV tax duly cancelled!
Murphy is unhinged and should have been carted off in a straight-jacket, my bairns are now feart to go to bed!
Effin garbage.
Jesus …well, that was car-crash TV.
To begin with, I would love to know how many of the audience voted ‘No’ last year and where they actually live (are they all from Edinburgh? Didn’t hear too many accents from other parts of the country)
Nicola has been set upon by both audience and the other 3 parties. To be quite honest, this was literally a bitching session about what the SNP have done (or not done) at Holyrood. Ruth and wee Willie have just mumped and moaned about SNP policies at Holyrood! And here was me thinking that we were discussing the elections for Westminster! I honestly wondered why Ruth and Willie were there? I don’t think Willie actually stated what the Libs were going to do should they gain power at Westminster. He just bleated about the SNP record at Holyrood.
As for Murphy …Jesus …not only did he get off lightly, but if I hear another sentence begin with another false example of what Jim has heard, then I’m going to ran needles into my ears. Jim never gave an answer on the oil, tuition fees, nor an answer to backing the SNP proposal for keeping out the Tories. He jumped one way, and then back again on Trident, ranging from not wanting any city to have nuclear weapons, but we need them. His nonsensical line that placing them in the North of England wouldn’t solve anything, but it’s OK to have them in Scotland! (What!).
Maybe next time, we can hold it in Dundee or Glasgow. Then we’ll get real questions to the likes of the Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems …instead of holding it in a city that is more like London, voted ‘No’ to being a capital of its own nation, and made up of an audience that was literally hostile to the SNP (and yet, earlier on when I canvassed Knightsridge in Livingston, the consensus was pretty much, 2/3rds were looking to vote SNP …yet, go figure after watching that disaster of a debate).
Imagine youre a Scottish newspaper editor after debate and your thinking “oh Sturgeon in New 2016 referendum scare shocker!”
Do you print it or fear it actually gathering more SNP votes!
The young Mhairi Black was on the BBC News Channel taking part in a live debate with other young people UK wide between 9 and 10 pm. She is really good, no wonder she is being attacked by Labour.
The audience was supposedly 60 SNP 60 Labour 30 Con 15 Lib Dem and 85 neutral (I think there were a few fibs in there). So 24% SNP 76% others. Fine if the 85 were genuinely neutral but I think the Tories managed to get a lot of ringers in there.
Someone said the moustache man was an SNP guy…highlight of the night 🙂
Well, I only caught the second hour of the debate and to me it looked like Nicola wiped the floor with them, despite them all ganging up on her. She also got the biggest round of applause by miles and her closing speech was actually something very special.
We should look at the positives and be glad that we have someone like her who is able to brush these evil morons aside so easily.
Their attacks just make Nicola stronger in the long run; they can’t win.
what a shambles totally disgraceful STV ,you should be apologizing to our FM for wasting her time and to us the people for not giving us what we wanted and that was an honest debate not a better together reunion with your bussed in audience with pre-set questions, resident unionist nawbag nutjob and fake mustache hat man disgraceful showing it was like watching a repeat deja-vu or what.
TBH, on the ”accent spotting” I heard at most 5. The bearded chap at the end seemed very fair.
The ‘English’ are the pink elephant in the room, I’m afraid when it comes to a future referendum. I know, I know before folk start accusing me of being anti-English that many voted and campaigned for a yes, and so on, but still.
The debate itself was pretty dull.
Davidson – I do slightly admire her stance on the Indyef and her calling Dugdale out on standing with the Tories last month on QT was ace. She also has all the aces though – she can sit and snipe at both Labour and the SNP. Knowing well that her party have next to no expectations in Scotland. 6/10
Murphy – his patter is awful. Of course, this is all media managed and attempting to be a wee Weegie man of the people. Did he answer one question? I’m sure if you were playing Murphy Bingo with some alcohol, you’ll be well on your way to steamingville. Had the most to gain, yet failed to impress. His nuclear weapons answer had no logic at all. 4/10
Nicola – again Indyref brought up, a loudly gasp at Nic refusing to rule out a ref in the 2016 manifesto. Unionists shiting it. She did alright tonight. Although at times it was 3-1 as it was going to be. Also, why was about 80% of tonight concering devolved matters? This is a UK election. The audience gave her a loud applause near the end. Not her greatest night, but fine enough job. 8/10
Rennie – I still cannot believe he is the leader of the Libs in Scotland. I know they only have about 5 MSPs, but surely Liam McArthur is more coherent, competent, but that’s not my worry. Even Ponsy at the end was basically saying ”Ach, go on Wuillie. Since you came all this way. Go say a few wee words before we finish” 2/10.
The format – uninspiring.
Ponsy was below his usual as well. Lost control a bit, and why did he allow the SNP questioner 3 responses, when others were allowed at most two? I like him, and he’s usually pretty good.
But all in all, a pretty crappy program.
Tomorrow will be more fun. We’ve got the impressive Harvie and that idiot Coburn, who’s bound to make a pig’s ear of himself on LIVE TV.
@orri says: 7 April, 2015 at 9:11 pm:
There are 2 ways to reduce a deficit.
“1) reduce spending
2) increase revenue.
Only to an extent, Orri.
Here’s a simple way to look at the problem.
If you restrict the incomes of the most poor you only achieve one thing. It hinges upon the term, “Disposable Income”. Now first, though, what actually is, “Disposable Income”? : –
“income remaining after deduction of taxes and social security charges, available to be spent or saved as one wishes.”
So let’s examine that definition – first up is the bit, “after deductions of Taxes and Social Security Charges”. Here’s the rub, though, First main taxation has been made indirect so the main tax burden is now born by the most poor in society. That means the Treasury is reliant upon the poor for its main income. Think, VAT, Road Fuel Duty, Betting Tax, Alcohol Tax, and so on. So by the time the tax etc. is deducted the poor have no disposable income.
Next up is what is disposable income being spent upon and it is on luxury items, holidays, and most of it ends up in bank accounts, invested, often abroad, buying up property as a hedge against inflation or otherwise in things that avoid paying tax on.
It mostly is not helping to grow the economy nor providing jobs. However, if you increase the income of the most poor who pay the highest proportion of their income on essentials then the poor folks will spend it on the basic things that keep body & soul together. Local business takes a boost and they in turn must buy more stock in, often from other local business, and the ripple start to spread outward and the treasury take goes up.
Then spend some of that extra on public infrastructure and you spread the expansion. As in, for example the new Borders Rail Link will bring a bit more prosperity to some fairly deprived areas. It is obviously counter productive to make the rich richer by taxing and starving the poor.
Dear STV, can I get those two hours of my life back, I could have gone to Dingwall to watch my football team getting beat.
Where do you find an audience, the majority of whom applaud keeping Trident?
Bizarre Morphy speak got the biggest laughs but the clapometer at the end definitely for Sturgeon.
You’d think Morphy would have it all down pat but clearly he can just barely cope with tv debate pressure, which is also weird as he’s never off the box BBC wise. So no easy questions from any SNP voter for Sturgeon but biggest cheer for SNP and ofcourse Scotland too.
Watching Morphy trying to be prince charming, should be used as how not to training tool and that silly planted SLabour conversion STV! Who the fcuk are you numpties trying to kid. You get better ham actors at born again Christian evangelist shows. “I believe in you Jim!”
Nicola did well, and had the strongest closing statement.
But the first planted question about talking too much set up Murphy to interrupt every answer, while she had to be more restrained.
I think she could have had a stronger message throughout about standing up for Scotland and getting more powers for Scotland.
That is what the SNP is all about.
Not just anti-austerity over and over.
Of course the BBC headlines are: SNP ‘will help make Miliband PM’
But it’s not just about ‘keeping Labour honest’, people will be voting SNP to extract more powers and influence for the people who live in Scotland. It is the SCOTTISH national party.
I don’t think that message came through enough.
Tache man just had his pic taken with Nicola. I hope she got his name.
There’s a queue of folk waiting to get their pic taken with Nicola or maybe with tache man!
Phisshhhed, fkit!
Wixing m’ wuckin’ fords up.
Seems like a I didn’t miss much. Deliberately didn’t watch it as I can’t suffer Jim on the telly/radio. Honest, I really can’t go that voice. (He’d make a terrible Jesus in a House of Commons Nativity).
It’s like when I hear the start of the Eastenders theme. I nearly break my neck diving across the room to change channel (quicker then trying to find the remote).
I’m getting the sense he just ranted on about foodbanks, foodbanks, and eh, food banks with a cheap dig about oil prices. The usual Jim Roadshow. Did he have his BBC Sponsored Badge stitched on his suit pocket – like the snooker players do these days?
I always feel most Political Programmes made in Scotland are produced by folk on work experience, and I include the presenters in that. The quality is poor and the Chairperson is always shocking at being a proper Chair of a debate.
Rant over. I look forward to all the press declaring Jim the ‘Winner’ tomorrow – that is unless the OED suddenly changes the definition to Sycophantic, delusional lover of Football, and Non-Unioinst Serial Expenses Claimant.
Quinie frae Angus
I wasn’t far off the mark then, when I suggested he was taking the proverbial. 😉
STV’s job tonight was to make it look as “dull as dish water”, they don’t want you getting caught up in the SNP rollercoaster.
AND THEY SUCCEEDED!
Similar tactics for tomorrow from BBC Scotland?
It had that stale smell of politics pre-1999. Same grey faces, same bland lack of aspiration, same dull contentment, same smug comfortable assumptions. Dull, dull, dull. (Apart from Nicola of course).
The whole purpose is clear now. The baffling “debate” was to glean the pic’n’mix sound bites to beam into the proper British ITV with the establishment narrative at 10pm news. SNP bad, don’t be fooled by Nicola doing well head to head with WM leaders, Murphy converts doubters, Tory and Labour hate each other really – look they are arguing, blah blah blah. Mugs’r’us. Shame STV.
Scotspine
‘Fuck this Union. Fuck the Establishment. Fuck the MSM and Fuck every No voter who entombed us in this hell.’
My sentiments exactly.
Well I decided earlier that I would give this extravaganza a miss.
Sounds like I did myself a big favour, and sober as a judge too.
To be honest it just sounds as if it was what I reckoned it would be. God help us there’s another one one the EBC tomorrow is it?Well at least Patrick Harvie will be there might help slightly, but knowing the way the EBC has form it will be probably more of the same.
Ah well, one month to go boys. Roll on the 8th May.
By the way, does anyone know, is there any real purpose to these debates at all?
@CameronB
Yes, I will hear all the inside info from him at the weekend but yes, you’re right, he’s totally taking the proverbial…..
I love Mhairi. She’s the new Margo. Seriously.
I thought I was the only person in Edinburgh with this accent. From tonight’s debate it seemed that more than half the city do.
Ah! ITV News just gave us the answer why the STV Debate was a bummer. They said, “It was time for Nicola Sturgeon to answer to her opponents. There you have it from the horses, (Mumble! Mumble”, orifice – not a party leaders debate then but a nail the SNP Leader set-up but, (as noted by commenters here), with a pre-stacked and shipped in audience.
They yellow tories should have got “dirty Tricks” Carmichael on to squirm instead of the irrelevant and completely forgettable wee Wullie Rennie.
People might have at least remembered the fat fool. 😉
Blatant set up, they must have bussed in the audience from Essex.
I feel as if I’ve been fingered by Carmichael
ruth Davidson 8/10
nicola sturgeon 8/10
Jim Murphy 5/10
willie rennie 4/10
guy with moustache 10/10
both ruth & Nicola had clear points positions
Jim—mentioned food banks about 25 x
willie—blame all the decisions gov made on tory
Planted question at the very start about Nicola speaking too much then the fake rammy with the DFS sofa and Jim the liar to make it look like they are big rivals when both are the same shade of shite. What a set up.
Murphy was shown up. Blokey and patronising, shouty, short on facts and plain shifty. Makes Miliband look like Eric Morecambe conducting a Caribbean steel band whilst loved up on MDMA.
Oh well.
If you thought that was a stacked audience wait until you see the BBC debate tomorrow. 🙂
Just as well I cancelled my TV licence then!
Two hours of my time wasted but for the drams.
Only positive of such an awful event is wondering what such events will be like in 5 years time…hopefully a different world away.
How boring was that!
When the Yes side was scoring around 25% in the polls they used that as an excuse as to why the audiences were so loaded.
Now the SNP are getting around 45% in the polls, and Labour are getting about 27% so, there should have been much better support for Nicola than Jim Murphy.
So what happened?
Totally agree with Kevin Evans 9:18
A few observations from tonights rabble
1…Looks like STV used the BBC matrix for picking a fair and balanced audience
2…Jim Murphy had the look of a man cought in his best friends wifes / partners knicker drawer
3… Nicola held her own
4… Willie Rennie was by far, the best man on the platform (did i just type that ?)
5… Labour in Scotland, tick tock ,times up.
Is there another one on the bbc tomorrow night? I didn’t realise that, wonder whether Nicola was downplaying things to come back stronger tomorrow
I also noted that Murphy, several different times, nodded to a audience member who was not on camera. His appearance was ” right, I will ask it now” He went straight into the subject then.
Thought it kinda odd, as if the puppet master was reminding the puppet to say something. It was suspicious to me.
@almannysbunnet at 10:13
Yep, instead of bingo, we could have played “spot the plant.”
For me, the highlight was when Nicola allowed Murphy and Davidson their little cat fight before informing the audience that the spat they had just witnessed was a staged disagreement, pointing out that politically Murphy and Davidson were recently arm-in-arm in their enthusiasm for the Tories’ announcement of a further 30 billion pounds of spending cuts.
I might be going mad but I could swear moustached man was Eddie Izzard, although I did listen more than watch so only got a quick glimpse
If this is STVs best with a hand picked audience and three v one, with more Holyrood discussed than Westminster then it backfired. The biggest cheer was still for Nicola who didn’t need to get out of first gear. Murphy only confirmed for any doubters what a prick he is.
Watched STV Debate, Nicola was Superb, how could any Scot be disappointed with a class performance, left the others left scratching their heads, she got the the biggest applause of the night. Incidentally was this supposed to be an Edinburgh audience if so I only recognized one. Ruthie gave a reasonable performance, Rennie showed how big a numpty he really his, as for Murphy has no shame he would sell out his grannie to get one back at the SNP. As for his 9 years at Uni three goods Scots were disadvantaged by him being there and f%$king about! Surprisingly I thought Ponsonby a bit more less biased than normal, perhaps maybe no!
@Hoss
It seriously doesn’t matter. Nicola is talking to scotland not just some handpicked audience. We know what every single poll has been showing for months and they sure as fuck aren’t that way because the scotish public dislike Nicola or resembles that studio audience in the slightest.
They unionist parties and overwhelmingly unionist media are simply wasting their time.
We’re fine with that because while they are pissing about with incompetent debate formats there is some serious campaigning being done on the ground up and down scotland right now. We have a record number of activists hard at it and totally overshadowing anything the labour party or any other unionist party is capable of now.
In what used to be some of the Labour parties strongest heartlands there is a laughable lack of effort being put into the ground campaign because they have so few members and even less that are actually willing to put in the hard work of campaigning.
Johann Lamont not saying anything at all on twitter at least. They must be really regretting giving Murphy her job now after that unholy mess. He’s clearly a stuffed shirt worked up the back with strings and then like Wullie, he remembers he has to smile. Oh christ that creepy smile.
Dim Jim stated:
“This lady came in to my office, sat down in front of me and burst out crying”
And i’d cry too if i was your wife.
btw, compared to last weeks big debate i’m hearing Nicola was slumming it tonight, sharing a studio with a bunch of deadbeats.
Glad i gave it a very wide birth.
JLT says:
“instead of holding it in a city that is more like London, voted ‘No’ to being a capital of its own nation, and made up of an audience that was literally hostile to the SNP”
As an SNP Yes voter from edinburgh I am seriously pissed of with attitudes like yours and others on this site. Scotland will never be independent with divisive comments against edinburgh, pensioners, English or whoever else you wish to blame – maybe attitudes like yours is part of the problem.
Lets not forget Jim doing an Anas Sarwar and holding up papers and shouting “Here is the document!”
Av goat a dozen pair of tights about that wee lassies size £10 ah pair,wie inbuild ladders soz she kin reach dizzy hights, ah wunner if she wid be interested.
To show how bad the debate was
They discussed (not in any order):
1. Education
2. Health
&
3. Policing
Problem is though, these are ALL devolved! and nothing to do with Westminster
There should have been more focus on what is reserved to Westminster and what might be devolved
I think someone said Patrick is on the one tomorrow. That will make it a bit more balanced.
Not that I trust the BBC. Not sure I can put up with too many more of these but then I suppose I am already decided on my vote.
I am afraid to say that was an absolute shocker of a debate. The audience were, not to put to fine a point on it, dim, dull, sadly many appeared to be right wing, and they looked like they did not even want to be there. Bernard Ponsonby is really a terrible host or whatever you call it. He is well past his sell by date. Smug, arrogant, and his whole persona is just very irritating these days. Find someone else STV.
This was right up there will the Sturgeon-Sarwar and Lamont debates in the independence referendum. The best thing to do is forget all about it.
@manandboy says:7 April, 2015 at 9:22 pm:
“This is just a re-run of the tactics we saw during Indy. Nicola is on enemy territory, and badly outnumbered.
STV are not treating this as a General Election, but as a Referendum.
Programme should have been called ‘Let’s get Nicola’.
That is exactly what the following ITV News plainly said.
It was described by them as designed to be a, “Get Nicola Sturgeon”, but not in as plain a description as mine.
Got up at 5am here in Sydney to watch the debate ‘live’ on STV player. Should have stayed in bed, to be honest. Depressingly dull but way more exciting than Australian politics. Nicola was the only ray of sunshine. Disappointed not to see Patrick Harvie. Would have provided more balance in what was a very one-sided contest. By the way, will swap you Tony Abbott for Jimbo. Any takers?
Social media result (Sun)
1. Nicola
2. Ruth
3. Willie
4. Jim
Murphy will have to find better jokes.
headtracker
You get better ham actors at born again Christian evangelist shows. “I believe in you Jim!”
===========
Aw Lawd, I can see.
Alleluia, my sweet child of Jaysus, what can you see?
I can see right in front of me a lying bar steward
OT
Sarah Smith on Scotland 0215 just referred to ‘Nicileaks story’ as ‘debunked‘ and ‘discredited‘
I decided instead to watch a trashy made-for-TV film from the early 1980s, HANGAR 18, and I’m glad I did. I knew anything with Ruthie, Willie and Dimmy would be dire. Hardly in Nicola’s league. But I did follow some of the Green Party’s Q&A tweets.
@Robert Peffers
7 April, 2015 at 10:24 pm
“..not a party leaders debate then but a nail the SNP Leader set-up but, (as noted by commenters here), with a pre-stacked and shipped in audience.”
The thing is, when the Westminster parties spend more time attacking the SNP than they do each other.. That shows viewers who their main threat is – the ones who will really shake up the system..
Stacked audience with stacked questions on top. The main indicator was the large volume of pro trident audience members which is not representative of Scottish opinion at all.
Whats surprising is that it was so obviously stacked. They might as well have bussed in a blue rinse section into the bargain. Shame Nicola didn’t ask how many voted NO OR how many support devo max. It would have gave the game away for anyone in doubt.
That STV debate was truly dismal. It says something when the most memorable thing about the two hours was the man in the audience with the fake moustache. Where on earth did they get that audience from? From that two hours you would think that Scottish New Labour were the party of the people and the polls were backing them to the hilt. That young girl who claimed she was undecided but would now vote Labour because of what Jim Murphy said needs to spend less time lying under the grill in her Home Economics class and more time actually engaging her brain.
Jim Murphy always strikes me as insincere and he kind of reminds of that creepy old man from Poltergeist II. I can just imagine him showing up at Bute house and telling them to let him in. Only the ignorant could be taken in by him and his empty sound bites.
Well, if the british state made television political debates..
The whole thing was designed to damage Nicola as much as possible. Rigged audience and I suspect some collusion amongst the union parties. Ruth you get her on prescriptions, Jim, you get her on education, Willie you get..ach you get it. Thing is this is not about the Scottish government although a lot of tonight was more like the 2016 election than the UK one.
It’s less about who may work with who in whatever shape or form and more about numbers of MPs. think that the establishment are desperate to prevent the SNP getting enough MPs to become the third party in WM. Being the third party in WM brings certain rights and privileges like access to committees and information – I’m no expert on these matters though I’m sure others here will know the details.
They haven’t figured out how stop the SNP yet – it’s a plan in evolution – multi-stranded. Damage Nicola’s shine and the record of the SNP, postal votes, project fear again to bring out the union vote. Tactical voting and cross-campaigning (who’d have believed that!) Rig the polls etc on the final run up to the election to cover any vote rigging.
Deja-vu?
I think if we want the election to match the polling we will have to work very hard to achieve that. I think the polls may be skewed to try and lull us into a false sense of security.
It’ll be interesting to see how the bbc set up their trap tomorrow. I suspect these debates are being organised by the british state and that is what we are up against. The threat we pose MUST be undermined and neutralised at any cost.
My abiding memory will be, apart from the Morningside audience, that James Murphy, poor man, is quite quite mad. I saw with my own eyes the bats flying out of his belfry. At one point he got really angry when his eye lasers failed to burn a hole in Nicola, his eyes then left his head completely, leaving him very confused.
I only saw the shouty match between Ruthie and Murphy on the main ITV news. I’ve never seen Wee Ruth look so animated. She was fair spitting feathers at him. All he could think of was to shout even louder over her…how rude of him!
Wisdom of an 8 year old who should be in bed “No-one likes Jim Murphy except for himself”
Murphy has said a few times now about a “coalition of Labour parties”, talk of Westminster needing major repairs. If there is a hung parliament, is federalism on the cards.
I missed the first half hour and should have missed the next hour and a half for all the good that “debate” did. Confirmed that the media are incapable of organising an intelligent debate on politics. They have too much at stake.
Nicola was the only person who spelled out a coherent policy (anti austerity, keeping free prescriptions, free education etc) and she was cheered at the end. If Patrick Harvey had been there then there would have been two good politicians which might have led to a good debate.
As it was, a three against one rammy with blatant lying allowed was a pointless exercise. Apart from the silly young woman in the audience, planted probably to appear to endorse Jim Murphy, I can’t believe anyone would be swayed by that uninspirig spectacle.
Carol – totally agree with that sentiment.
Tottie rocks babes.
Spotted one of the audience on a BBC news clip of Camerons disasterous pie making visit to Edinburgh. Wondered why he was up here today.
Explains a lot.
wont be watching debate weds
I enjoyed the bit where the Tory kick boxer and Murphy were having a completely fake argument to show the audience just how ‘opposed to each other’ they were. It failed. Nicola was able to say what we were all thinking and exposed their manufactured disagreement.
So tomorrow’s debate is from Aberdeen. Same four contestants plus the green’s Patrick Harvie and UKIP’s very own Jabba the Hutt. It will be moderated by James Cook. The mind boggles.
Nicola missed what I consider a big issue…tax evasion. By coming down heavily on the corporate/individual tax evasion that the city of London cartel enables,we could easily afford to invest in public services and public infrastructure and increase meaningful job creation. Although not easy to get across to an audience of low information voters.
Michael Gove open on Newsnight wanting Labour to do better than SNP…shame Jim isnt so open
In about 3 places tonight, having recorded the (debate) i went back to study the action
Murphys face and body language towards Nicola Sturgeon was a complete and total threat posture
At one point he nearly lost it altogether, eyes bulging and contorted open mouth with bared teeth in absolute open aggression
Wee Ruthie at one point also almost spat at the First Minister during the 3 way Chimpanzee dominance act with Willie on the end as the Minor Chimp jumping on the bandwagon in the hope of inclusion into the Troop
The First Minister has been well schooled
When you replay the whole thing, not as benign as it appeared
Of course that was only for a few moments close to the end
Nicola will come out reasonably well with most folk, but especially with women because they will have picked up on the threat mode from Murphy and will rightly i think, not care for it one little bit
It’s not an exact science but i have a little experience for what it’s worth
On balance, I thought the STV studio producers or directors that tell what camera does what, did a very good job for SNP with great shots of women in particular looking generally pleased during and after Sturgeon spoke.
They focused back and fore to show an audience approval of Sturgeon that we almost certainly will not see from the BBC Scotland creep show, who specialise on anti SNP angry scowly faces, full on mocking laughter, worried brows etc while SNP speak.
They did that kind of BBC dirty debate tricks throughout their vote NO campaign, so its going to be fun watching them tomorrow pull off the same visual psyche outs. Jim hath spake, adoring happy clappy SLabour BBC crowd and vice versa. I bet a coke on Jim winking tonight but he bottled it.
Anyway, jeers for Ponsonby but if you’re out there STV camera people, cheers!
Would like to see Murphy Davidson and Rennie asked is it time to end FPTP in Westminster..cue muchos havering
The audience invites must have went to “Better Together” / SNPout and the Tory Party.
If this is representative of Scotland then the polls have got it badly wrong and Ruthie will be FM in 2016.
I must admit the young female and undecided voter who was won over to Labour by Jim was worthy of a repeat showing. That was the most pathetic plant I have ever see.. I hope she is not “an actor” as she will starve to death on the basis of that performance.
ITV News calling it for Nicola.
Ditto, commentators on Scotland Tonight.
There’s a post-debate poll that Stu and others have re-tweeted (although I can’t seem to see the original source) which gives:-
Nicola 55 Murphy 36 Ruthie 8 Oor Wullie 1
O/T and sorry if has been posted here before, a book on Willie Mcrae is being crowdfunded at Kickstarter.
Have to say some of the comments tonight have been pretty poor. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.
But folks it’s a good thing that ALL of our politicians are asked difficult and probing questions and made to feel and look uncomfortable. At that point we all get to see how solid and persuasive their arguments are and get a feel for whether they believe in what they are saying.
Would you rather that the debate was held at the SECC filled with SNP only voters and there were cheers for Nicola and boos for everyone else? No format or audience selection technique can be perfect. Do you really hold other scots in such contempt that you think that they are won over by who gets the loudest clap or biggest boo? Lets hope we are all much smarter and better than that.
According to STV the audience makeup was 60×SNP, 60×Lab, 30×Con, 15×LD & 85×undecided. Choose to believe that or not but can we leave the grand conspiracy bollocks to one side. I think we all saw through the young lady convinced by 5 minutes of Jim pish.
Elections are won by votes and votes are gained by persuasion not derision.
Right lets get back to talking about that mustache man MSM cos that’s really important to the election. Head in hands.
Just watching Sky Newspaper review where metropolitan journalists are loving the Telegraph report on the ITV debate
So watched this debate with my sisters fiancé as she was out to a works night out dinner, and we both are very interested in GE 2015. Thing is he’s undecided. I’m obviously pro SNP, but I decided to say nothing during the debate to see if what was said onscreen swayed him.
So what did he think?
Ruth was a disgrace for passing off Thatchers damage to Scotland because she was ‘too young’. Who cares about the hundreds of thousands of lifes utterly destroyed by her legacy? Bring back perscriptions / more welfare cuts and Ruth had lost any chance of his vote. He was fizzin at her.
Described Willie as a used car salesman. Didn’t take him seriously. Laughed when Willie claimed to feel the pain of the poor.
Jim Murphy looked a bit ‘nuts’ according to him, never really answered questions properly, bad jokes, shouty. Called out that girl ‘convert’ as a labour plant on account of jims answer being ‘Pish’ compared to Nicolas answer. Got annoyed at Jims refusal to answer voting down Tory government.
Nicola he believed handled herself well as he noted the other leaders and audience seemed overly critical of her, and as a neutral he did like people here doubt the balance of that audience. Second referendum talk made him wary, but admitted overall her answers were more clear and handled herself well under attack. Also appreciated the anti austerity message.
Leaning more to SNP after it, so he says. He used to be Lib Dem btw but like many feels utterly betrayed by Nick Clegg and friends. I hope many other undecideds came away with a similar view.
I tend to think Nicola did well given STVs biased setup, and took pleasure it the loudest,longest applause and cheers going to Sturgeon at the end. Must have annoyed a few STV higher ups. 😉
caz-m says. Jim Murphy says, This Lady walked into my office sat down in front of me and burst out crying. And me that does charity work But Disnae talk about it says. What’s wrong hen how can I help you. and she says can you tell me how to get these Egg stains off my dress. ps I wish Jim Murphy would just Vanish.
Not much of a “debate”, more a propaganda exercise; Debate requires discussion, argument and some compromise to reach a conclusion that at least approches a consensus – none of which is even close to being reached as long as the no compromise/intractable attitude prevails – CAN WE WORK TOGETHER FOR A COMMON GOOD? The SNP seem willing – are Labour?
Jim Murphy should have had a fake moustache on.Everything else about him is fake.
Willie should have had a red nose and size 30 shoes on.
Well they couldn’t use “Suzanne” there regular actor clootie could they!!!!
what a load of rubbish
the audience were clearly educationally sub normal
bear in mind the numbers in the audience were based on the 2010 ge results or some other shit designed to give the unionist air heads air time
solution
1. wipe out unionists in may
2. wipe out unionists in 2016 (if we voted tactically in 2011 the labour party would have been the 4th party in scotland today!
if the contestants were SSP, SNP, SG and Lab, and the audience was 10% lab, how different the debate would have been.
stv presenters were full of themselves tonight about how well they had done. this contrasted sharply with 99% of social media saying it was rubbish. stv even had the cheek to mention franky boyle was watching, but they didnt mention any of his tweets, not because they were unsuitable, but because he was tweeting about how rubbish the debate was
Ah, but wasn’t Jim a dear demonstrating his devotion to sexual equality when realising that he had said “Labour are on the side of the common-man” panicked, and added “and the common woman”. Sweet.
I think one of the main problems in tonight’s debate, is the fact that we all know that what Ruth and Wullie says is irrelevant to the general election.
They kept bringing the issues back top devolved matters because it’s the only place they are relevant.
Jim was doing his usual stint, of making sure he got his pre-rehearsed sound-bites and gags in, even though it meant bringing unrelated conversations around to his chosen sound-bite.
Jim held on to the low information voters, the first woman couldn’t string a sentence together and the young lassie, lost her train of thought, because she had clearly forgot the sentence she had been told to ask, so turned to ask the person next to her to remind her what she was supposed to be asking!
She told Ponsonby that
itsme – totally agree. Nicola did, after all, get by far the biggest ovation at the end and the most applause overall. Some folk on here seem to think it should be an SNP love-in. The audience make up, if that is correct, seems fair enough to me. But I thought many who spoke seemed rather dim, some even struggling to put a coherent sentence together. Although I thought the age demographic was all wrong, not many under 35s.
@Dr Jim says:
7 April, 2015 at 11:21 pm
In about 3 places tonight, having recorded the (debate) i went back to study the action
Murphys face and body language towards Nicola Sturgeon was a complete and total threat posture
At one point he nearly lost it altogether, eyes bulging and contorted open mouth with bared teeth in absolute open aggression
..
Nicola will come out reasonably well with most folk, but especially with women because they will have picked up on the threat mode from Murphy and will rightly i think, not care for it one little bit
I was thinking the same thing. There were a few shots, where he stood directly facing her, towering over her.
Along with the constant interruptions, he came across pretty aggressive when he wasn’t being patronising.
When there are no knock-out blows, it’s the general demeanour of politicians that people remember.
PART 2 LOL
She told Bernard that Jim had convinced her with his answer, well looking back at her question and then listening to Jims answer, it’s hard to work that one out.
Lets get back to talking about that mustache man MSM cos that’s really important to the election.
Party pooper. 🙁
The fact that tache man was the biggest hit of a 2 hour political debate, should tell STV everything they need to know about the dire format.
Last week’s format by SKY was far more inspiring and structured. The STV audience must have been sourced from Rent a Unionist, one lone voice of a woman asked Murphy – does it not bother you those weapons are 50 miles from the city. The rest of the audience was worried taking Trident away would do for the tourism. Sick, sick, sick.
@Mealer, 11.45
Willie doesn’t need a clown’s outfit to look like a clown; he does that all by himself.
Caledonius
I think that Ruth Davidson was saying that the more wealthy in society should pay for their prescriptions and that having them free for everyone was absurd and I agree.
The trouble with that is that it goes against the principle of universality.
Also I think I read somewhere that it would cost more to means test it than it would raise – but not 100% there.
What she was really trying to do was have a cheap swipe at NS and how much money she earns.
@Iain Grey’s Subway Lament
I know it does not really matter which is why it is funny that by TV companies think it does and why they stack the audience with old biddies that fall asleep.
Expect more of the same tomorrow.
I am quite happy not watching Unionist TV anymore. However, it is good to see Nicola still won the debate on worms and social media.
Amazing that Willie Rennie beat Murphy – Go Willie – must be the highlight of his political career.
Still cannot see it on stv player – Mcternan must still be arguing about what Murphy bits to censor!
There is a tsunami coming on the 7th of May and the BBC and STV are standing watching the beach thinking they still control things in this country.
Woooosh…
Jim Murphy said Labour has always vote against a Conservative Queen’s Speech. Worth voting SNP to see what Labour would do if Nicola’s scenario did happen.
@Dr Jim
Agree re Murphy’s body language and demeanor.
Should some MSM hack not be penning an article (a la wee Eck) headlined “Jim Murphy Has a Women Problem”?
Mahri Black on Bbc2 Newsnight , Putin on a good show .
Sorry for jumpin in .
Cameron in press blaming Carmichael for Scotland Office political leak and yet the supine Scottish press still won’t persue Carmichael on this.
link to independent.co.uk
BBC 24 news headlines claiming Scotland A & E waiting times worst for 10 years which is utter bollocks
@Lenny
“a book on Willie Mcrae is being crowdfunded at Kickstarter.”
link to kickstarter.com
R4 were headlining Nicola supporting an anti-tory goverment and Jimbo replying, ‘We don’t need you.’
Perhaps not the headline that he wanted!
Bernard Ponsonby actually thought Murphy won it tonight. He said Murphy would have the biggest grin after that performance and tomorrow’s papers will go with Murphy.
I think Ponsonby has been at Murphy’s glue bottle again.
Clarinda,
‘common women’, eh?
Who’s he calling common?
I’m glad to say that I am a unique woman (I’m sure you are too)!
@X_sticks, 11.03
Yep, I’m seeing the same pattern emerging also.
I really do hope that 100,000+ SNP members have a plan for monitoring the ballot boxes this time around.
Jim Murphy just didn’t look comfortable tonight.
He looked nervous and his eyes and facial movements were quick and darting like, like someone who is over stressed by the occasion.
Of all the candidates, Jim came across as the one most rehearsed and in doing so I think he overdid it to the point of seeming false.
His ‘Oh you’re not from Helensburgh, you look like you want to be’ Joke just didn’t make any sense, and later he did another, that was as equally badly executed.
Yes people in audiences will laugh at these jokes because in the false settings like this, people are almost primed to laugh along with what others do, but the real people at home would have been left scratching their heads.
Jim Needed a big win in either tonight debate or tomorrows, so he will know it’s last chance salon in Aberdeen.
His joke when the youngster said she would vote Labour, that ‘all they need now is another 500,000 debates like this’ was his only genuine of the cuff comment, yet it showed a deep pessimism that he would never openly admit to, (as no politician ever admits they are defeated a month before polling day)
We now know that they chose the audience based on voting paters in the last general election!
Yet like a few people have already noted Nicola not only got the biggest cheer tonight, it was noticeable that whenever she speaks about standing up for Scotland or getting a good deal for Scotland, you can almost feel audiences pushing their fists in the air and shouting Yeh!
Harry McAye
Thanks for that – was half expecting to be verbally eviscerated 😉
F-sake Rev. You missed multi-lateral disarmament!
Can anyone remember whether Jim Murphy said labour wouldn’t vote for a Tory queen’s speech, or whether he said they would vote against it? Wondering whether they’re getting set to abstain
Murphy tried and was allowed to emulate Darling in first TV Indy debate.
To some extent, it succeeded.
I do not think that any viewers will be changing or deciding based on this poorly presented and badly managed debate.
Yet again, the loser was STV and Ponsonby.
daily record calls debate a score draw
prob best they could work with–a jim win would be taking the piss
No surprises there, STV are every bit as bad as the BBC. I have been saying this for what seems like years now but people cut them slack because they don’t get any licence fee.
This was dire, 3 members of the panel who have absolutely no say in anything that will happen after the GE in May. They could just have picked people from the street for all the impact they would have.
Only good thing is that I don’t need to spend any time next year watching debates for the Holyrood election as I watched it all tonight, talk about missing the f*cking point STV.
Murphy said we need to pursue a strategy of multilateral nuclear disarmament. The best way to do that is by um.. keeping nuclear weapons in Scotland.
But as a ‘Labour friend of Israel’ surely Murphy is well placed to influence the obvious Netanyahu-inspired push for nuclear disarmament in that country?
One day Murphy will make an honest statement. Similarly, that tache tonight was genuine.
ndigo says:
8 April, 2015 at 12:20 am
Can anyone remember whether Jim Murphy said labour wouldn’t vote for a Tory queen’s speech, or whether he said they would vote against it? Wondering whether they’re getting set to abstain
========
He said that they would vote against and that they had done so ever since the beginning of time and certainly since 1924.
@itsme 11:57
What’s absurd is setting up and running a system to collect charges that costs more than just making prescriptions free to all.
“Mhairi Black on Bbc2 Newsnight , Putin on a good show.”
Just missed her TB. My new MP.
Dougie Alexander tried to dig the dirt on Mhairi, by checking her twitter account from a few years back. The only problem was, with her being so young at the moment, he was looking up the activities of a fifteen year old girl.
So he picked up a bit of a “dirty old man” reputation.
Why would a middle aged man want to know what a fifteen year old girl was up to? Creep. And he probably had the help of MI5.
@itsme
Oh I very much agree with your point, my post however wasn’t really about my thoughts but what a friend of mine who is genuinely undecided thought about the debate. It’s my hope his reaction is the average one for undecideds after what was a less than stellar 2 hour debate.
Personally while I hate all things Tory, I think Ruth came across much better than Jim or Willie. That said, the salary jibe was very weak.
I haven’t read all the comments about the *cough* exellent debate on STV tonight. However I have picked up on the fact that there was a certain individual wearing a black hat and *ahem* fake moustache in the audience. Having seen the picture from Ben MacDonald I think I’d add the individual may very well be wearing a wig as well. 😀
Perhaps everyone’s undercover audience member is the latest member of the Scotland Office carrying out necessary pre- smear ground work before *ahem* leaking his/her report to the Telegraph in the near future. 😉
By the sounds of it I am glad I *cough* unfortunately missed this battle of the minnows against the First Minister.
50 seats, how good would that be Jim Murphy?
link to newstatesman.com
Patrician
Same. I have also been on STV’s case since the latest Indy ref started. 2011/12.
I also think Nicola is going to include another referendum in next years Manifesto.
Bring it on. You can hear the NO Voters screaming from here.
We will not give up until we are free.
What memories linger longest from the STV Leaders`s Debate?
Mmm…
Unfortunately, I would have to say the audience.
I`ll leave it at that.
Don’t worry folks the query over the gut in the blak hat and false moustache has been resolved. 😀
link to twitter.com
LA,
‘the gut in the blak hat’
Glad to see you enjoyed the drinking game!
Let’s look at the last question – who will you do a deal with?
Ruthie, not UKIP because they will only have 2 seats. Not answered, what if they get 10 seats, will there be a different answer?
Jim – not telling you, so there.
Nicola – progressive alliance.
Willie – anyone who will have us.
Murphy couldn’t bring himself to even consider SNP, bottom line is he would prefer minority Tory Government, rather than do any deal with Nicola.
Biggest surprise for me was Alex Salmond wasn’t demonised, unless I missed it due to utter boredom.
If the powers that be in tellyland are reading this
there is a question i’d like to be put to all the opposition parties, framed a bit like….
When the oil price goes up, which it inevitably will, will that then justify the economic argument you keep using against the SNP Government
This argument is constantly employed by Unionist Parties as their main reason for opposing Independence or indeed Fiscal Autonomy every other argument seems to have lapsed
itsme says:
7 April, 2015 at 11:58 pm
Caledonius
I think that Ruth Davidson was saying that the more wealthy in society should pay for their prescriptions and that having them free for everyone was absurd and I agree.
Itsme / Caledonius / Ruthie Babe
If the socially minded ‘more wealthy’ feel the hurt of accepting prescriptions gratis from the Scottish NHS – there’s a very simple solution.
They can offer to pay their prescription’s cost to the dispenser, who I am absolutely certain would be happy to put it into a big sealed drum, which would then be found a very grateful NHS home and be duly accounted for, so everyone’s happy as Larry.
The point may be that Ruthie Babe knows there ain’t a cat in hells chance of that ever happening from her socially minded more wealthy, so why the mock exasperation? It’s just pathetic and ultra cynical.
Go and play with your socially poisonous private medical chappies Ruth and leave us real socially minded Scots to look after all our sick and needy at no cost and with no shame.
itsme
I think that Ruth Davidson was saying that the more wealthy in society should pay for their prescriptions and that having them free for everyone was absurd and I agree.
I’ll not bother you with links as this topic was comprehensively covered during indyref, but I think you’ll find the impirical evidence indicates universal benefit are the most cost-effective means of ensuring full coverage for all is assured.
God, that was grim viewing.
Nicola did OK, other than missing the trick about ensuring maximum delivery of the Vow, (rather than mentioning indyref2) which didn’t get a mention all night!
Dreadful chairing by Ponsonby, who should have kicked all the devolved questions & points into touch.
Was that the Assembly Rooms in Derby, rather than Edinburgh?
itsme
Why not ensure a progressive tax system, if you are looking to redistribute wealth? Closing tax loop-holes and stopping corporate tax evasion would also help.
The funniest part tonight was when the guy pressed Murphy on the prospect of 10 thousand jobs being lost if they got rid of trident. This argument is usually directed at us (the SNP) and Murphy couldn’t understand why it was being directed at him…
Just prior to the man making that point, however, Murphy, with his usual feigned sincerity, talked in glowing terms about how he wished to get rid of all nuclear weapons worldwide rather than just “ours”. Of course, you know and I know that he doesn’t really mean that and the reason he was puzzled about the jobs argument was that he didn’t consider for a second that someone would take his crap about nuclear disarmament seriously.
Just beautiful. Worth re-watching.
I’ve just read on Twitter that the weird young girl in the audience is Jim Murphy’s niece. Anyone know if that’s true or not?
R-type Grunt says:
8 April, 2015 at 2:53 am
I’ve just read on Twitter that the weird young girl in the audience is Jim Murphy’s niece. Anyone know if that’s true or not?
I doubt it – Even Murphy wouldn’t be so dumb.
The audience was poor though – STV should have vetted the questions. Rambling statements, personal issues, and one guy even seemed to think Murphy was against nukes.
I felt sorry for spinal fluid woman.
The true, spectacular encapsulation of Jim Murphy, truly a Jeroboam among Champagne Socialists.
I have to admit, I was flabbergasted that it was Murphy who was being attacked on his desire for nuclear disarmament. I guess that’s what you get when you spend a referendum campaigning against nuclear disarmament, simply because the SNP are anti-nukes…
Sorry, R-type, I don’t do Twitter.
OT. I know folk here like graphs and charts. Fill yer boots. 🙂
link to blogs.lse.ac.uk
@Alcedo Atthis says:
8 April, 2015 at 2:38 am
Just prior to the man making that point, however, Murphy, with his usual feigned sincerity, talked in glowing terms about how he wished to get rid of all nuclear weapons worldwide rather than just “ours”.
—–
Ah, was that what was going on.. Seriously confused by that whole exchange. Yes, of course his multilateral disarmament pitch is a total sham.
Lesley-Anne says:
8 April, 2015 at 12:50 am
Didn’t help.
Was I supposed to recognise him?
For the record, for Jim Murphy, and even Nicola Sturgeon who also missed the important part, the actual statement from Salmond was:
“I believe there wont be another Referendum for a generation, but that is my personal view, it is not the view of the parliament.“
There are no other jobs to spend the nuke money on? Eg NHS/Education/Renewables, A Naval base and eradicating poverty. That’s what the other successful countries in Europe do. The few in eternal debt support illegal wars and cause migration into Europe. How ignorant are some people. Or ignorant and arrogant like some ill researched ‘journalists’. They do not have a clue.
Blair and ‘causing havoc’. Does he never look in a mirror. Blair should be in jail. He lied to cause illegal wars, poverty, death and destruction and is now making £Millions from it. Where is the Chilcot verdict? Being blocked by unelected civil servants. It’s a disgrace,
Blair doesn’t know the difference between the EU Union and the UK Union which are not the same. Westminster has been secretly taking from Scotland forever and lying about it. The McCrone Report and Thatcher. ‘This must be kept secret’ written by Thatcher on the documents released last year. The illegal wars have cost $6trillion, enough to provide a proper education system in Iraq, Afganistan, Britain and the US. Why does Iran need nuclear when it has enough Oil for fuel and energy.
Thanks Wingers. I can delete the “debate” from my Skybox without watching it.
Hope springs eternal and I shall record the next one and read the WoS commentary.
Carol
‘As an SNP Yes voter from edinburgh I am seriously pissed of with attitudes like yours and others on this site. Scotland will never be independent with divisive comments against Edinburgh’
A couple of things Carol, and I think you’re taking this slightly too personally. First, I was born in Edinburgh. Secondly, I work in the city. Thirdly, and more importantly, Yes, there were districts of Edinburgh voted ‘Yes’. But, Edinburgh has large swathes (more than it probably should) that are populated with the financially well-off. There is probably no other city in Scotland, or even outside London with so many private schools. I honestly believe that Edinburgh will be the last city in Scotland that will vote ‘Yes’. And that is my point! Apart from being the capital that voted ‘No’, I think Edinburgh will be an absolute tough nut to crack. But, the one fact remains, it was the capital that voted ‘No’. It didn’t just hurt the ‘Yes’ voters of Edinburgh, it hurt many right across Scotland. We could re-run this tomorrow, and I think we would still get the same result. As said, no offence, but our home city is going to be very hard to break.
Blair the liar. Westminster still trying to control the Scottish economy.
Scotland raises £54Billion+ in tax revenues. The rest of the UK raises less (pro rata) £412Billion. Scotland lost £4Billion+ a year in Oil revenues. Osbourne/Alexander increased Oil taxes 11% (£2Billion) to 80% in the 2011Budget. £16Billion. Scotland could save £Billions in a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink and cutting Trident/illegal wars.
The illegal wars have cost Scotland £Billions. Westminster banking deregulation fraud, tax evasion and illegal wars, destabilising the Middle East and causing migration in Europe. Tony Blair/Westminster are causing havoc and poverty. Westminster criminals use Official Secrets Act to hide their crimes. Where is the Chilcot verdict? Tony Blair should be in jail.
The plant who attacked Nicola for not letting others talk, then later on asked the longest question I have ever heard from an audience member, was Andrew White, how do I know? It is reported in an article in the Telegraph published at 11.48pm last night. Maybe it was it written before the debate even started.
“Andrew White, a member of the audience who earlier chided for her interrupting the other contestants, said: “With the UK’s accumulated debt now in excess of £1,500 billion, who in their right mind would seriously consider increasing the country’s annual deficit to finance increase spending rather than continuing to eliminate the deficit and start repayment of the accumulated date?” It would be interesting to know who he really is. C’mon Embra somebody must know.
BBC r4 news not saying much at all really, dodging Murphy mess, focus on next ref possible from Sturgeon. Brian Taylor down beat report/chat with Jim Naughty very muted, info free, lots of mumbles, nothing to see here, no chats on performance of candidates, Naughty up to usual tricks really. Possible next ref gets them going with Taylor explaining Scots are “torn apart” over when and if next ref should happen soon. Anything but even mention how their boy Murphy’s hopeless at debate. Funny that.
JLT: the capital that voted ‘No’
As an Embra man I can attest to the embarrassment. It’s especially humiliating getting into a conversation when abroad, admitting the capital of Scotland decided it wasn’t worth owning its own country.
A couple of weeks before the vote I recall the wife of a lawyer I know say in a tone of incredulity, and loudly at a social function, “I can’t think of anybody I know in Edinburgh voting for independence.”
Glasgow must love us.
Most relevant item was first Bernard question to Ruth Davidson
Will there be a cut to Scotlands money under Tories?
There’ll be a “modesr reduction”…
The tory ‘having to keep the ‘household outgoings’in order and balance the books is very plausible. They compare the economy to a household which is completely flawed..
Steve Keen Explains Why Austerity Is Pseudo-Economics: link to youtu.be
Without the Westminster liars Scotland would have had a £220Billion Oil fund. The East coast has the incomers. The rest can be persuaded or will vote SNP. The elderly like their social care, bus passes, prescription and increased NHS spending, and their grandchildren’s student support and nursery care.
link to caltonjock.com
Grouse Beater
Exactly. As someone born in Edinburgh, and as hard as it was for those who fought for ‘Yes’, I think the Edinburgh result carried extra emphasis because it is the capital. For people like yourself, Carol and Itsme, yeah …that’s a sore one, and yes, it’s not nice when it is cast up each time.
What didn’t help! …was Glasgow voting ‘Yes’ (though I have to admit, that that result actually surprised me. I honestly believed that Glasgow through its division with football would also have voted ‘No’). When Glasgow voted ‘Yes’, I must admit, I quietly groaned because I knew this would lead to contrasts.
However, who knows what may come! Edinburgh may still surprise us yet. She’s not been unknown to the odd riot (not that I’m wanting a riot, hell no!), but something may finally puch things to a point where even the more affluent members of the city may even begin to say ‘No, this is wrong. Westminster has got this wrong!’.
For Edinburgh folk looking at this thread. Don’t take it to heart, or too personally. I don’t believe the audience reflected Scotland, or even the people of Edinburgh properly. I didn’t hear too many people from the harder hit parts of the town. What it seemed to be was a general mix of the middle classes from the Mid and East Lothians.
But for people like yourself Grouse Beater, Carol and Itsme …keep up the good work in getting the message across.
So on this site you are not allowed to mention pensioners voted no, English people voted no and now the city of Edinburgh voted no without all hell breaking loose.3 words, get a grip.
Is that you LA? In the pic?
link to bbc.co.uk
BBC strikes back!
“But there are times when social media and other online sites have been used to abuse and threaten journalists. This is completely unacceptable and our journalists are entitled to carry out their work without the threat of unwarranted personal attacks online.
One tweet aimed at Cooke? Just go subscription fee like SKY BBC. Leave people who cant stand you’re garbage tv, radio and Better Together vote SLab propaganda, alone.
Scotland spends what it raises £54Billion and could raise more without Westminster’s interference. The rest of the UK raises less and borrows more. £412Billion and borrows £90Billion. Historically Westminster has secretly taken equivalent of £Billions from Scotland. Thatcher wrote, ‘This must be kept secret’ on documents released last year. One of her Ministers resigned. Thatcher cancelled a pipe line wasting Billions of Gas. The Gas was burnt off. Thatcher tried to get thecpipe line to Newcastle. It should have been at Peterhead. The nearest land mass. It got to near Edinburgh/Grangemouth.
Thatcher spent the Oil revenues building up London S/E Tilbury Docks, Canary Wharf, deregulating banking and unemployment. Bankers fund the Tory Party. Thatcher deregulated utilities now owned by foreign State Companies. Thatcher demutualised the Building Societies, the funds were owned by the members. Thatcher sold off the Council houses and did not build more. Thatcher started a civil war with the miners. Coal is half the price of imported Gas and plentiful all over the UK. CC projects (Longannet) have not been funded by the UK Gov. Two new coal plants have
Labour kept the McCrone Report secret. Scotland would have been Independent years ago if the facts were known. Westminster clones are still lying. Scotland still pays dear for Trident/illegal wars, City of London banking fraud and tax evasion.
@joemcg says:
8 April, 2015 at 7:35 am
“So on this site you are not allowed to mention pensioners voted no, English people voted no and now the city of Edinburgh voted no without all hell breaking loose.3 words, get a grip.”
Not allowed to? If you generalise then expect to be challenged. Simples.
BBC r4 8am news now not reporting debate, Murphy mess, Murphy waffle, except that were “groans” from audience with next referendum question aimed at Sturgeon.
Sooner rather than later BBC, just for the opportunity to get away from your ghastly outfit:D
Actually BBC r4 radio Scotland bloke sez Ruth Davidson was triumphant last night and that’s it from flagship Today show really.
Generalise? Stating a fact is a crime aye? Oh dear. We need to appeal to these 3 sections I agree, but not even mention it? Come on.
Westminster refused Permission for a CC Project at Longannet in Fife but are funding two new coal plants (£2Billion?) near Clegg’s constituency. Westminster cancelled a Humber barrage tidal project as too expensive (£9Billion?) but are funding a nuclear plant (near the coast) at Bridgewater which will cost £Billions more. Nuclear Plants build in France and Finland were years late and £Billions over budget. There was a dispute with the Government over payment.
“You’ll Have Had Your Tea!” as Miss Jean Brodie would have said. The highlight for me was Danny the Tash from the Clan MacPhee. Time now to move on from the capital which doesn’t want to be a capital (not too late to alter that situation by the way!), to NO voting Aiberdeen. Guess who’ll be getting stick for the fall in the oil price?
Doubtless Murphy will think he had a good night, a daftie is often the last tae know.
Do I see signs of the press distancing themselves from their “white night” Murphy.
The Scotsman ran an editorial on how it wasnae his fault, that he should be supported after the election failure.
This covers a huge amount of between the lines chatter. Firstly the acceptance of failure even before the count undermines the job. Secondly the public acceptance of failure is a repositioning of the Scotsman’s world view. Thirdly it smacks of a PM saying just prior to sacking a minister ” John has my full support for the great job he has done at…” Fifthly it is an acceptance that the world around them and their customers do not follow their world view.
It must be a confusing old world to be a neoliberal editor of a printed rag in a digital world.
Like a million dinosaurs looking up at a bright meteor a saying ” that’s pretty but it won’t effect me” and going back to munching grass.
@ Almannysbunnet (7.10am).
There is no guarantee the Andrew White you mention is from Edinburgh.
But going on the assumption he is from there a quick Google search using the search criteria ‘andrew white edinburgh’ throws up a few interesting possibilities. Here are just 4 of those search results:
(1)-Andrew White, School of Mathematical & Computer Sciences,
Heriot Watt University, Edinburgh…
(2)-Andrew White, Whites Auto Services, Dalry, Edinburgh,
Land-Rover, Range-Rover, 4×4…
(3)-Andrew White Printers, Easter Road, Edinburgh…
(4)-Andrew White, sjpp, offering a bespoke personal wealth management service, aimed at ensuring clients’ affairs are structured as tax efficiently as possible…
Note, there are quite a few more search result possibilities and
as i said previously, he may not even come from Edinburgh.
Also, i briefly noticed there is one Andrew White involved in the East Lothian Partnership Membership. He is the Vice Chair,
Edinburgh branch of Federation of Small Businesses.
One of these may be the object of your curiosity.
O/T – I’m pretty sure just heard Andrew Tickell on BBC rADIO 5 with “his legal hat on” say that we need Westminster permission to hold another referendum and imply that both Alex and Nicola say it is a generation away?
Did I hear right and is he right?
@Bill
Yes, we do.
See Edinburgh Agreement, gave us the power to hold a referendum within 2 years of signing it
On the free prescription issue here is a very good article on how pharmacies are run differently and better in Scotland…
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
@cearc says: 8 April, 2015 at 12:09 am:
‘common women’, eh?
There simply is no such thing as a common woman. Come to think of it there is no such thing as a common human being.
We are each a complex, and often changeable, sentient being.
I see tonight’s debate has Patrick and Coburn and is in Aberdeen. The dynamic will be totally different I think.
How many more of these are there? I know there is another UK one next week. Is that it or is there a third UK one?
On last night, the consensus seems to be there is no consensus. Not untypical for a debate really. No one really crashed and burned, not even Willie, and I think most decideds will remain decided. The survey the Beeb were talking about this morning sounds interesting and provides a fair bit of ammunition for Nicola for tonight.
I think STV’s effort last night will prove to be one the poorest formats. It was heavy going and the audience odd. I think STV were taken to the cleaners on their 85 neutrals. I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised that many were party activists of one stripe or another including the “Jesus Jim has shown me the light at the end”. There were far more than 30 Tories in that audience.
Sorry folks but when STV and BBC choose no-voting places like Edinburgh and Aberdeen to host their debates then it’s totally fair game to point this out.
What, you think it’s a co-incidence that they aren’t in Glasgow or Dundee?
This might help in Edinburgh….
link to zerohedge.com
Very similar scare-mongering to what we had in the indyref
@ Bill McLean, that we need Westminster permission to hold another referendum and imply that both Alex and Nicola say it is a generation away?
Did I hear right and is he right?
No on once in a generation, that’s BBC propaganda. Yes, next referendum needs UK Prime Minister permission.
Joemcg says: @ 8.10
I did not say you could not mention this but if you do then expect a response. I really don’t know what is to be gained by the continual snide comments against Edinburgh etc. Independence will not be won by the poor in Glasgow. We need people from all over Scotland, the old as well as the young and the better off to want and vote for this.
I read a lot of comments on this site about how backward looking Westminster etc is and that SNP look to the future well maybe some on here should do the same. Include rather than exclude or there will be a repeat result at the next referendum.
Good morning all…
Not surprised R4 is skewed in its reflection of debate etc..
But what woke me in the night was the clear stage management of, and wooly logic from THE AUDIENCE.
The groan was a setup..SAME AUDIENCE CLAPPED AND SEEMED TO APPROVE OF THE STATEMENT / QUESTION..that TRIDENT REMOVAL WOULD BE BAD FOR TOURISM..
I live in Argyll, we are you the only nuclear armed local authority. Council full of independants like the guy asking to save the the nukes.
Post independance may we we should install a water park on holy loch site..or maybe the locals would prefer a nuclear power station..
Or turn helensburgh into a giant nursing home for the whole uk. With the base being a giant crematorium
Sorry h’burgh not personal but your reliance /acceptance of the death / arms trade…makes you at odds with the human racec itself.
ClanDonald says:
8 April, 2015 at 8:55 am
Sorry folks but when STV and BBC choose no-voting places like Edinburgh and Aberdeen to host their debates then it’s totally fair game to point this out.
What, you think it’s a co-incidence that they aren’t in Glasgow or Dundee?
And yet, the decisive battles for this election will be in Glasgow and Dundee. Truly they are bricking it!
TOURISTS..COME TO ARGYLL & BUTE..
EXPLORE ITS..NUKES AND CRANNIES..
Fellow wingers.What we should have realised by now,is we are on the equivelant of the “Truman Show”. Everything around us is carefully orchestrated and directed to suit the big broadcasters agenda,and to push the Unionists political view.We could never beat them at that game whilst ignorance was bliss.
However like Truman, we begin to smell a rat,and have become aware of the bias in the system which tries to manipulate our actions and thinking at every turn.The system is devised to ensure Nicola fails in full public view,or is minimalised or marginalised.
Thus far they have failed.Why? They have failed because more and more people are awakening to the fact that there is another way.That is down to the efforts of people like the Rev,and yourselves fellow wingers.Keep the faith ,expect no favours,and keep on fighting the battle.
Onward fellow Scots.
@Stoker says:
8 April, 2015 at 8:26 am
Tried that already then clicked “images”, didn’t recognise him though 🙂
@Patrician says: 8 April, 2015 at 12:24 am:
“No surprises there, STV are every bit as bad as the BBC. I have been saying this for what seems like years now but people cut them slack because they don’t get any licence fee.”
Oh! For heaven’s sake Patrician?
Get your facts right no one gets a licence fee other than HM Treasury. The BBC collects the fee on behalf of the Government and the Government make a cash grant to the BBC that is totally independent of the Licence Fee.
The Grant is indeed, (laughably), for services rendered by the BBC to the Government and it includes much more than the UK Radio & TV Broadcasting. It includes collecting the Licence fee, (The licence is to receive ANY Video Broadcast from any source in any part of the universe).
It also includes Radio & TV interference investigation and many other services. The grant would continue even if the BBC were allowed to accept advertising and remember the BBC is allowed to sell programmes and services all over the World. The BBC is basically an, “Arms Length”, Establishment Government Department.
Cracking article by Irvine Welsh;
tinyurl.com/n63gf4b
Where’s the Home Rule/Full fiscal autonomy/Federalism Scotland was promised. Lost in translation.
Would be interesting to know if ‘labour convert’ will be in Aberdeen tonight. Also heard plenty applause but could see no hands moving.
Craig Murray may have cracked the conundrum of the weird make-up of the audience, it was
“based both on current opinion polls and the last general (UK) election result.”
The audience was therefore rigged against the SNP
So don’t blame the good people of Edinburgh as it looks now that they may be as anti the unionist parties as their Glasgow counterparts.
@Lesley-Anne says:8 April, 2015 at 12:44 am:
“Perhaps everyone’s undercover audience member is the latest member of the Scotland Office carrying out necessary pre- smear ground work before *ahem* leaking his/her report to the Telegraph in the near future.”
Och! Lesley-Anne, They don’t need to employ agents in the audience to do do leaks for them. They are mostly all leaking urine quite liberally already.
And another thing … According to the Rev. there are lots (hundreds, thousands?) of people who, like me, rarely comment or never comment but visit the site regularly. What kind of impression do they get? There are a clique of regulars who appear to be in their own bubble talking to each other without a thought of how their comments appear to others.
I give up – I even contributed to the Wings appeal but I am not going to visit this site just to be ridiculed because I don’t live in Glasgow or Dundee.
@ heedtracker (8.59am).
Slight correction.
Alex Salmond DID say a once in a generation opportunity but it was said in a throw away remark style because neither Salmond nor Sturgeon can dictate when we have referendums etc.
As Nicola has pointed out on more than a few occasions, it’s Scotland’s electorate who will decide when these things happen.
You can’t get any clearer than that.
I would also add, despite the shite the newspaper reviews were spouting last night, i have never heard Nicola ever repeat the once in a generation line. I’m not saying she hasn’t, just that i have never witnessed her saying it.
Heedtracker – thanks for reply. Find it odd that we need permission from UK Prime Minister to hold a referendum, as surely we entered this foul union “voluntarily” so surely we can leave the same way!
Here is the BBC Scotland poll,
you will notice that there is no question on media being devolved and the Indy Ref question shows a result of 5.6 out of 10, or 56% would vote for Independence before 2020. Renewal of Trident got a 4.
All scores are out of 10, with the higher the score the more support it received.
Full results of poll, ranked from highest to lowest:
1.Increase the minimum wage for those aged 21 and over from £6.50 to £7.85 per hour (8.2)
2.Guarantee that old age pensions will rise over the next five years (7.9)
3.Stop energy companies from increasing prices for 20 months (7.7)
4.Ensure authorities cannot access personal data unless an individual is suspected of taking part in an illegal activity (7.6)
5.Introduce a tax on homes worth more than two million pounds, commonly known as the Mansion Tax (7.4)
6.Give the Scottish Parliament the power to increase benefits and old age pensions (7.3)
7.Increase the top rate of tax to 50p in the pound for those earning more than £150,000 a year (7.2)
8.Give the Scottish Parliament full control of welfare benefits (7.1)
9.Stop immigrants from the rest of the European Union from claiming welfare benefits until they have been in the UK for at least four years (6.8)
10.Give the Scottish Parliament full control of income tax (6.8)
11.Give the Scottish Parliament control of all areas of policy apart from Defence and Foreign Affairs (6.5)
12.Bring the railways into public ownership (6.5)
13.Increase spending on public services even if that means the deficit doesn’t get eliminated by the end of the next Parliament in 2020 (6.3)
14.Put a cap on the total amount paid in welfare benefits to a household (6.3)
15.Impose a limit on the number of people coming to live in the UK (6.3)
16.Increase the amount spent on the armed forces (6.2)
17.Hold a referendum to ask people whether they wish to stay in or leave the European Union (6.1)
18.Reduce the amount the government borrows by cutting spending rather than by increasing taxes (5.7)
19.Hold another referendum on Scottish independence within the next five years (5.6)
20.Charge better-off older people for some things which are currently free to all older people (5.2)
21.Eliminate the deficit by the end of the next Parliament in 2020 even if that means reduced spending on public services (4.6)
22.Reduce taxes even if that means cutting public services (4.0)
23.Renew and upgrade Trident, Britain’s nuclear deterrent (4.0)
For me the most significant moment came late in the debate and was almost inaudible as people talked over each other.
Jim Murphy admitted that if David Cameron brings a Queen’s Speech before Parliament, Labour will vote against it.
Guess what Jim, so will the SNP.
If Labour + SNP have more MPs than Tories + hangers on, David Cameron can’t be Prime Minister. The exact split between Labour and SNP is irrelevant.
What does matter is that the SNP will stand up for Scotland and for social justice rather than voting blindly for privatisation and illegal wars just because they are told to.
@Grousebeater:
As an Embra man I can attest to the embarrassment. It’s especially humiliating getting into a conversation when abroad, admitting the capital of Scotland decided it wasn’t worth owning its own country.
Glasgow is a port; Edinburgh is a fort. While the first is open to new ideas the latter is resistant and wary. However forts – whether they are the traditional castle kind or more modern variations like banks – are controlled by a small number of people. Larger numbers, who may not agree with the controllers, circle the gates. Defeat the controllers and allegiance can change dramatically. As the administrative hub of the country, Edinburgh is probably the city which would benefit most dramatically from independence. I am an optimist who believes that realisation will gradually dawn.
Watch out for the Christine Jardine contingency tonight in Aberdeen.
Ex BBC journo Jardine has been busy up here in Gordon constituency trying to brainwash the locals with her tsunami of political propaganda for months and months. Started off all SNP BAAAAD, now maneuvered to “tory & labour, don’t waste your vote, vote orange tory liberals for more inept, useless Malcolm Bruce style more of same pointlessness.
Wish Nicola would mention Osbournes & Daleksanders decimation of the oil industry to wreck SNP pre indy projections and put this issue to bed one and all.
@ JLT Im with you on you .The programme was broadcast from Edinburgh & that audence was not representative of the People of Edinburgh, we will never see/hear a unbias debate when the audence is selected by the TV company,s.
Dont expect the next debate to be any different.
Thats the 2nd time Murphy has answered a question & the questioners reply was I,ll vote for you (on NHS) funny that,some Plants ramble & that Lassy would need ah line fae her mammy tae go tae the shops fur a loaf. ( side wies look)
once in a generation…..
that generation ends on may 8th
polls now show yes/no 50/50, good, but not good enough. NS..the people of scotland will decide if and when there is another indy ref
roughly translated, the polls need to show between 55/60% support for yes before indyref2 will be on the snp manifesto in spring 2016.
wining 30-50 snp seats in may will give us a boost, it might even force westminsters hand somewhat, but it is not the end game.
the yes campaign must re ignite on may 8th, ssp, sg and snp combined. there are still 30% of the population who vote labour and voted no, forget the rest, we need to find them, talk to them and convince 10-15% to cross the floor.
in the next 11months, we need to run a holyrood campaign and an indyref2 campaign at the same time. we can do this
1. wipe out the unionists in may
2. holyrood, vote 1.snp 2. sg/ssp
had we done this in 2011, labour would now be the 4th party in holyrood, lib dems would have 1 msp, tories 5.
how would this effect the make up of the audience in the leaders debate? rennie and ruthie wouldnt even have been on the stage last night, how would newsnight justify inviting labour lovies on to their program to rubbish the snp?
how would the unionists fight a referendum with no unionist politicians to defend the union? they would need to get bowie to write them a song!
Stage 2 of Operation Neutralise the Sturgeon Effect on the BBC tonight.
It will be dire.
Brace yourselves