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Jigsaw Puzzle Blues

Posted on November 22, 2021 by

Craig Murray is due to be released from HMP Edinburgh a week tomorrow, having served half of an eight-month sentence for contempt of court via “jigsaw identification”. Our latest poll data from Panelbase, surveying 2000 Scottish voters last week, reveals that just a quarter of Scots think that such an offence merits imprisonment.

Readers may find the figures for male and female respondents of note. The full data tables can be downloaded here.

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    402 to “Jigsaw Puzzle Blues”

    1. Alison Brown says:

      Seriously surprised more people did not agree it should not be an offence to reveal the identity of the perjurer. Surely to falsely accuse a man of rape or sexual assault that person should find themselves to be the one imprisoned?

    2. Socrates MacSporran says:

      He may be a Tory, but, Donald Finlay QC continues to be one of the sharpest legal minds in Scotland.

      Donald has long argued anonymity in sexual assault/rape cases should be extended to the Accused. Should he or she be found Not Guilty, then that anonymity should continue. A Guilty verdict immediately removes that right to anonymity.

      If this was the Law, then I am sure the Scottish media would have destroyed itself trying to identify Alex Salmond, but, for a normal case it would make things a lot simpler.

      The question of what to do with accusers whose claims are found to be false – well, that’s a whole different ball game and not a can of worms I would fancy opening.

      Something continues to stink about the whoel Salmond case and the fall-out there from.

    3. Sharny Dubs says:

      And if someone try’s (and fails) to stitch you up for robbery or murder their identity should be protected by law?
      Sounds fare to me, aye right

    4. sarah says:

      @ Alison: I agree. Why should anyone think false accusers should be protected?

    5. Jan Cowan says:

      I totally agree with Alison Brown.

    6. Anonymoose says:

      —–

      Socrates MacSporran says:

      “The question of what to do with accusers whose claims are found to be false – well, that’s a whole different ball game and not a can of worms I would fancy opening.”
      —–

      If they are proven to be false accusations – beyond all reasonable doubt by corroborating evidence and witness statements – such as “they were not at the location nor near the vicinity of the location at the time of the alleged offence”, then they should be charged with perjury and face the full consequences of their actions.

      Falsely accusing anyone of a crime they have been proven to not commit and then lying about it in a court is one of the most egregious misuse of not only the law, police time, the court and juries’ time, but the accuseds time, money, stress and any media defamation they have to defend themselves against.

      As we are seeing at quite an alarming rate these days, exacerbated by MSM’s ability to only report one side of a case, is the trial by media to sway public opinion before a verdict is given by juries of our peers.

      This flagrant disregard of justice brings our courts and judicial systems and the verdicts of juries into disrepute.

      The media’s job is to hold governments & power to account, not to erode our trust in the law by calling their own verdicts on cases by deliberately swaying public opinion when they themselves absolutely fail to report court cases in any kind of balanced manner.

    7. Jan Cowan says:

      Great news about Craig’s release! He shouldn’t have been there in the first place. But then we all knew that. So thankful he has managed to rise above the incredibly unjust so-called “sentence”.

    8. And Spouse says:

      I’m confused Wings. It’s an offence!? Weren’t there others who did the same as Craig? Should they be jailed? ?

    9. And Spouse says:

      My Cheeky emoji input came up as a ? in my last post

    10. Stoker says:

      I’m with Alison @ 11:27 am: “..Surely to falsely accuse a man of rape or sexual assault that person should find themselves to be the one imprisoned?”

      I’d go further and add the sentence should be just as severe as what the offender would have been given.

      I can’t fathom, for the life of me, why Salmond doesn’t go all out for her. I know i would if some lying rat accused me of rape and i guess most blokes i know would too. Or is Salmond just taking this ‘look how nice i am’ too far?

      One of the architects behind all of this, Evans, will soon be off out the picture, probably to live in England, while all of Scotland is left with the devastation and fallout. Shame Salmond will not go after her either.

    11. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      The lot of them will be very worried as it only takes one honest or scared person to come forward and tell the truth.

      Just one person could bring it all tumbling down.

      I would like to see that.

      Glad Craig is getting home I hope he writes a book about his experience and makes lots of money.

    12. Joseph says:

      In the interests of being PC, this poll and question should have referred to both men and women. Men can be raped too.

    13. Doreen A Milne says:

      Thanks, Stuart. Hope you’re doing fine and enjoying your new day to day. Cheers. D

    14. James Che. says:

      Wether man or women if you falsely accuse or falsely smear someone it should be an imprisonable offence of equal time scale to those that would have been Imprisoned under the false accusation.
      Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.

      The jigsaw women should be in prison. As Alex was found not guilty in a court of law.
      That only one media or blogger was imprisoned also shows how biased the the courts were towards independent supporters.
      If CM had to go to prison by lady dories for suggesting he might do something he had not actually done.
      Then every journalist should be sitting in the adjoining cells.over this matter.

    15. James Che. says:

      Oh for a independent legal system from the crowns.
      Independence needs doing sooner rather than later.
      As the politicians, the law and advocates, the snp and the Scottish branch office to Westminster fail the people off Scotland.
      We can but turn this around to save ourselves,
      We can no longer trust the laws of Scotland to remain a separate system to England’s as stated in this imposter treaty of union.

    16. Dorothy Devine says:

      Delighted to hear that Craig will be free next week – though , as others have stated , he should not have been imprisoned in the first place , unless of course he had been accompanied by a large slice of the media.

    17. Garry says:

      The reponses were broken down by “gender” and not sex? Is that a Panelbase thing?

    18. Republicofscotland says:

      Alison Brown @11.37am.

      Totally agree there, I’m surprised as well by that, the Alex Salmond fit up being a prime example of anonymity protecting some of those found not to have told the truth, yet they face absolutely no consequences, we can’t even name them.

      The new LA, is all for more juryless trials, and Id wager that the anonymity of complainers will also grow along side this as well.

    19. robertknight says:

      Sturgeon’s Scotland…

      All the trappings of a Banana Republic – without the bananas!

    20. Chas says:

      Things will be a lot simpler when a ‘jury’ trial is replaced by ‘judge’ only.
      I have no idea what the current percentages are for guilty v non guilty in trials held under a jury but I would bet that in a judge only led trial the percentages for guilty will rocket.
      Unless of course, you have ‘friends’ in high places.

      Is anyone else finding it difficult to be objective when looking at what the SNP do, or do not do?

    21. Cath says:

      The question of what to do with accusers whose claims are found to be false – well, that’s a whole different ball game and not a can of worms I would fancy opening.

      I think, while the presumption should be on anonymity, if it can be proved beyond any doubt they were lying, malicious and/or gained from that lie, they should have anonymity removed as well as being imprisoned.

      However, I’d also say there needs to be a serious look at whether anonymity is ever appropriate in a case where the accuser is more powerful than the accused. Especially if the accuser is powerful and connected enough to hold sway over the police, media etc. Because that is a very large part of the Salmond case, imo: who had the power to order the biggest police fishing exercise in Scottish (if not UK) history against an entirely innocent man trying (and failing) to dig up dirt? Who then had the power to have trumped up and idiotic charges prosecuted in court by COPFS? And the power to shape the media narrative? If those people and the complainants are the same or connected, the public needs to know because that really *is* the story: how the state went all out to fit up an innocent person.

    22. Dan says:

      Cath says: at 3:49 pm

      If those people and the complainants are the same or connected, the public needs to know because that really *is* the story: how the state went all out to fit up an innocent person.

      I’ve mentioned this before.
      With the massive implications it would mean for the most powerful people in our society, just how could someone have the confidence to send a group message stating along the lines of “I think we can proceed with this course of action and remain anonymous”, without having previously run it by some extremely powerful and connected individuals that could ensure such a process could be managed and not burn their entire house down.
      I just can’t comprehend how anybody could press send on that message without measures being in place.

    23. Anonymoose says:

      —–
      Chas says:
      22 November, 2021 at 2:59 pm

      Things will be a lot simpler when a ‘jury’ trial is replaced by ‘judge’ only.

      —–

      You are kidding right?!!

      Look at what happened to Craig Murray when he was tried without a jury, a judge imprisoned him for “jigsaw identification” on zero evidence other than what they believed was his “intent” – an accusation which Craig absolutely refutes!

      This was the same judge who led and had intimate knowledge of the case Craig was reporting on which resulted in only Craig being charged with an offence and not any MSM journos.

      I’ll remind you that those MSM journo’s detailed explicit information from that trial that led to hundreds++ of people directly identifying those granted anonymity, yet all of those journalists & thier publications got off without a scratch.

      Craig Murray was never given the opportunity to have any evidence scrutinised by a jury of his peers, his only “crime” being the reporting of the defence case in the trial while respecting the anonymity of those invovled.

      Now you want judge-led trials with jury trials to be abolished?

      Just listen to yourself, it’s utter insanity!

      All it takes is one rogue judge and you will have potentially scores of people wrongfully convicted & imprisoned.

      This will put a ridiculous burden on our already snowed under advocates in having to lead appeals for people wrongfully convicted by a lone judge – nevermind the compensation claims involved!

      I am in no way suggesting our judiciary are corrupt, however in my view having judge-led trials is an open door to authoritarian corruption – checks and balances exist for a reason as do juries in ensuring people are given a fair trial judged by a jury of their peers and not by the judgement of a single person

    24. Dan says:

      Peter Bell on form.
      Warning! Protect monitor screen and keyboard if drinking or eating whilst reading it though.
      Reckon even Andy Ellis may struggle to disagree with Peter on this one… 😉

      https://peterabell.scot/2021/11/22/gender-facism/

    25. Breeks says:


      Cath says:
      22 November, 2021 at 3:49 pm
      The question of what to do with accusers whose claims are found to be false – well, that’s a whole different ball game and not a can of worms I would fancy opening…

      But I think with Alex Salmond it goes much, much further. We’re not just talking about a false accuser, there’s the rank stench of a full blown orchestrated conspiracy that’s more grievous than Nixon’s Watergate, but with those implicated in that conspiracy are the ones left in charge of both the investigation and Enquiry proceedings, and are using that privileged position to exonerate themselves while suppressing the evidence which may or may not incriminate them. How can we know?

      A man has even been jailed in the most ludicrously unfair and asymmetric interpretation and application of the law. The scandalous disgrace of it, on them, not political prisoner Craig Murray.

      Where is the actual justice in ANY of this? We don’t even have the truth yet, let alone justice.

      Justice? Truth? We don’t even have any “journalists” investigating to establish the truth. The only one who made an attempt was the one they sent to jail!

      What an absolute stain on Scotland, while that buffoon Wishart can’t even, (won’t even), figure out why the SNP is now held in such utter contempt by many of it’s once staunchest supporters.

    26. Chas says:

      Anonymoose

      You obviously do not get ‘irony’.
      Read my post again.

    27. twathater says:

      @ Anonymoose at 4.50pm TBH I think Chas was being sarcastic or at least I hope he was ,you can never tell from the written word

      I also agree with Alison and Stoker it is unfathomable that an accuser has been PROVEN not to have been present or even in the vicinity of where an ALLEGED criminal sexual assault took place , yet that accuser whose TESTIMONY can only be considered as having been falsely made and must surely fall under the accusation of PERJURY with the SOLE INTENTION of SUBVERTING JUSTICE is not only NOT being prosecuted for their heinous actions in deliberately lying in an effort to jail an innocent man possibly for the rest of his life , but they are also being PROTECTED by an anonymity order imposed by a judge to protect their identity rather than prosecution to PUNISH them for their ILLEGAL ACTIONS

      The judiciary in Scotland by ignoring this egregious display of corruption are denigrating and demeaning the legal system in Scotland for which they should rightfully hang their heads in shame and be reviled by honest citizens and people with integrity

    28. Ruby says:

      Stoker says:
      22 November, 2021 at 12:09 pm

      I can’t fathom, for the life of me, why Salmond doesn’t go all out for her. I know i would if some lying rat accused me of rape and i guess most blokes i know would too. Or is Salmond just taking this ‘look how nice i am’ too far?

      Could it be done to a question of money rather than niceness.

    29. Ruby says:

      Garry says:
      22 November, 2021 at 2:10 pm
      The reponses were broken down by “gender” and not sex? Is that a Panelbase thing?

      Reply

      I hadn’t noticed that!

      Stu wrote: ‘Readers may find the figures for male and female respondents of note’

      I did until you made me aware that it was broken down by “gender” and not sex’

      Now these figures are meaningless.

    30. Cath says:

      I can’t fathom, for the life of me, why Salmond doesn’t go all out for her.

      I presume it’s either to do with independence, and what’s best for that, or maybe down to timing. Or a bit of both. If your key goal is independence, what good would be served by the truth coming out right now? And can it properly come out while the main players in it still hold all the power? It can’t be an easy situation or judgement to make, as it’s hard to see any way it doesn’t just make things worse, at least in the short-medium term.

      Let’s be frank here: everyone in Scotland who needs to know – the judiciary, the media, the senior political players – already know the truth, as do many paying attention. If it was possible for it to be told it would already be out there. As it is, who’s going to tell it? Salmond coming out and saying it isn’t enough, even if we wasn’t instantly jailed for doing so. It would need the media to report and the judiciary to act. They haven’t and won’t. So what can be gained?

      I think it gradually gaining traction by word of mouth is the only real way for it to spread, at least around the independence movement. The unionists would simply use it against the SNP, and by association independence.

    31. Ruby says:

      To ask someone who has lived as a female for 3 months or just self-ided as female to form an opinion from a female perspective is a joke.

      Same applies to male opinions.

    32. Stuart MacKay says:

      Alison, sara, Jan,

      I strongly suspect those polled didn’t fully understand the question or at least weren’t paying as much attention as they should.

      It would have been interesting to flip the question to ask people’s views on the sanction against someone making a deliberately false accusation of rape for personal gain. You can keep the possible responses the same.

      I suspect we’ll see the answers in tomorrow’s edition.

    33. Derek says:

      @robertknight says:
      22 November, 2021 at 2:50 pm

      Sturgeon’s Scotland…

      All the trappings of a Banana Republic – without the bananas!

      We’re not a republic, either… yet…

    34. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “In the interests of being PC, this poll and question should have referred to both men and women. Men can be raped too.”

      The question did not specify or in any way reference the sex of the alleged victims.

    35. Effigy says:

      If rap# accusers are found to have lied about the incident to tarnish the accused
      they should have no right to anonymity.
      Just like that famous stitch up were a woman claiming to have been raped after a
      diner party was found not to have been invited, never attended and no guest can recall seeing her.

      That woman has no right to anonymity.

      Her names should be revealed to warn others of this person’s vindictiveness.

      It is going to happen, man rap#s women, tries to then suggest he was a she.
      Claims that a woman doesn’t have a penis so one was never used as suggested.

      If they are found guilty, it’s happy days for him and the desperate in the prison.
      A day filled with sex, Sky TV, 4 square meals and a laundry service must be punishing.

      The Scottish Government have made a farce of our laws.

    36. Derek says:

      “Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      22 November, 2021 at 8:53 pm

      “In the interests of being PC, this poll and question should have referred to both men and women. Men can be raped too.”

      The question did not specify or in any way reference the sex of the alleged victims.”

      No, but it did specify that of the perpetrator, so I see what the questioner’s getting at.

      “If a person is found innocent of…” as the opening line, maybe? I wholeheartedly agree that men are, almost all of the time, the perpetrators, but there’s the odd other-way-round too.

    37. Ruby says:

      Someone said ‘men can be raped too’

      Yes ‘men can be raped by women and can also be raped by other men and women can be raped by men and also women’

      Confused?

    38. Ruby says:

      The don’t knows are bloody annoying!

      I reckon they are just lazy ******** who could even be bothered reading the question.

    39. Kcor says:

      There was a conspiracy at the highest levels to get Alex Salmond jailed while the accusers remained anonymous for ever.

      No fair justice system should allow false accusers to get away with it.

      But as we found, in Scotland it is not only the justice system but the whole power base which is rotten to the core – government, parliament, judges, prosecution service, police.

      Never forget how Sturgeon lied through her teeth at the parliamentary enquiry in front of the cameras.

      Have the police quietly stopped looking for the robbers within the SNP who stole the £600,000 donated by independence supporters?

      “Sovereign” Scots indeed.

    40. Ruby says:

      Are you confused as to who can be raped by whom?
      The following might help:

      ‘What is rape
      Rape is a criminal offence. It’s defined as when a person uses their penis to penetrate another person without that person’s consent. Victims of rape can be male or female.

      Rape doesn’t include penetration by the fingers or an object, but anyone who does this could be charged with sexual assault by penetration. This offence is as serious as rape.’
      Citizens Advice Scotland

      To rape you need a penis.
      Both men & women can have penises.

      The offence covers surgically constructed genitalia, for example as a result of gender reassignment surgery.

      Still confused?

    41. Iain Hamilton says:

      Hey hey hey. It’s is so good to see the space invader back

    42. Wullie B says:

      Stoker says:
      22 November, 2021 at 12:09 pm

      One of the architects behind all of this, Evans, will soon be off out the picture, probably to live in England, while all of Scotland is left with the devastation and fallout. Shame Salmond will not go after her either.

      @Stoker, She will probably move to her wee hielan getaway when she retires, next door to a man with a Black Ford who likes to rove about on the Range or two

    43. David Ferguson says:

      I rather suspect that “anonymity for the accused” will come in alongside the abolition of trial by jury. Men will enjoy the privilege of enforced anonymity throughout the process of being charged, prosecuted, convicted and jailed, and nobody else will ever be aware that any of it has happened.

    44. Astonished says:

      As Cath said : I think Alex Salmond is playing his cards very carefully.

      Craig Murray has been jailed due to a one piece jigsaw identification. Dani Garavelli remains at large.

      Police Scotland are now a laughing stock as they are simply refusing to arrest the person who passed the information regarding Mr Salmond to the daily redcoat. This person will be charged with perverting the course of justice hopefully in the very near future.

      International arrest warrants are available and hopefully an independent Scotland will make full use of them regarding Ms. Evans.

      Someone further up the thread was very critical of non-jury trials ( rightly so) however they also said that ‘ they didn’t think Scotland’s judges were corrupt ‘.

      I would politely suggest that they pay more attention.

    45. Breeks says:

      https://archive.md/8HlsK

      This is why the SNP’s million papers is a real boost for Independence… (drum roll, please….)

      … because in 80’s the Sunday Post did it once a week. Ba dum tish!

      Eh?

      Err, …. And that’s a real boost to Independence because??

      I’m left struggling to join the dots frankly. Can’t help thinking Mr Kavanagh accidentally pressed “send” before he was ready. Otherwise, it’s just bizarre.

    46. Robert Hughes says:

      ” I’m left struggling to join the dots frankly. Can’t help thinking Mr Kavanagh accidentally pressed “send” before he was ready. Otherwise, it’s just bizarre. ”

      No , no accident there Breeks : this is just the kind of mental circle-squaring the paid apologists for NSNP are reduced to .

      Paid-off Paul will be telling us next to forget Bruce’s encounter with the spider and focus instead on Oor Wullie’s bucket-based ruminations and urging us to ” Believe In Broons ”

      That * special edition * SNP Dandy comic went up in pretty flames when I used it light my fire . Producing not a single spark in the process

    47. Breeks says:

      Such a pity the SNP didn’t include the SSRG’s open letter.

      https://www.barrheadboy.com/open-letter-to-the-leaders-of-the-independence-parties-in-holyrood-westminster/

      Just imagine the impact of a million+ more people knowing a little more about Scotland’s Constitutional Rights and strength.

      I wonder if the SSRG has received any replies yet…. (Let you into a secret, I’m not wondering at all. I’m pretty sure I know the answer).

      The SSRG’s proposals look truly formidable in dry dock. I can’t wait until the proposals are properly put to sea… I think that process promises to be quite fascinating, and a very healthy and positive development for Scotland which I believe will develop it’s own momentum. Politicians who don’t keep up will be left behind.

      Looking forward too to the Wee ALBA book… I very much hope the SSRG strategy features heavily in its pages.

    48. Breeks says:

      I meant to add this link too… Sunday’s Through A Scottish Prism…

      https://www.barrheadboy.com/through-a-scottish-prism-21-11-2021/

      If you don’t tune in to Scottish Prism folks, you’re missing out on a lot of great info…

      Pretty amazing discussion about Scotland’s ports, and the scandal of not having a single ferry link with the Continent.

      As for Cockenzie becoming a new Port… Yes! Yes! Yes! Let’s get it done!

    49. Dorothy Devine says:

      Interesting piece on Yours for Scotland – worth a read.

    50. Is Brutish Labour leader and his mouthy trade union pal still out hunting rats or is that no longer a story,

      what a fricken disgrace the pair of them to traduce Glasgow and Scotland like that all for their British bosses,

      and the media wh@res who went along with it.

    51. stuart mctavish says:

      Great question, interesting answers. Its corollary, and other good ones, might include :

      Being innocent, yet not pardoned, and having survived punishment for the crime(s) of

      a) Failing to love thy neighbour
      b) keeping images of false gods
      c) taking the name of the Lord in vain
      d) forgetting to keep the sabbath day holy
      e) dishonouring your mother or father
      f) killing (ie for dinner)
      g) Committing adultery
      h) Stealing
      i) Bearing false witness*
      j) Coveting thy neighbours’ wives, etc.

      Should you commit the crime that fits the punishment irrespective of whether systemic bias might jeopardise the shielding otherwise afforded by the double jeopardy principle?

      *Principles of benign intent notwithstanding, this is presumably the devine root of the jigsaw identification law – in which case the relevant question becomes, should the known victim be encouraged to complete the puzzle (or would it be better for all concerned if the alleged victims did it for him in order to present the full picture, and pardon, on his release)..

    52. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “No, but it did specify that of the perpetrator, so I see what the questioner’s getting at.”

      You need a penis to commit rape under Scots law. Only men have those.

    53. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 5.36 pm

      Why would I be singled out particularly? I’ve hardly made any secret of my views on the matter and they align with those expressed (at some length) in Mr Bell’s piece. I imagine Peter Bells’ views represent the majority in the general population on this issue, and the overwhelming majority of WoS supporters.

      True, I have little time for the man himself or some of his output, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

      The surprising thing to me as some others have noted is how many people think that prison time is an appropriate response in the scenario presented. It makes me wonder if a significant number really understood the question too, but then look at the level of understanding and political savvy that resulted in “both votes SNP” at the last elections.

    54. vlad (not that one) says:

      @Dan 22 November 16:47

      … just how could someone have the confidence to send a group message stating along the lines of “I think we can proceed with this course of action and remain anonymous” …

      Exactly. How could they be certain that Lady Dorrian was going to issue an anonimity order?????

    55. James Che. says:

      It scares the living daylights out of me personally when we in Scotland are occupied by America and England on our soil. Using Scotland as a base for Sabre rattling at China and Russia,
      And how far they have damaged nations for the profit of war.

    56. Robert Graham says:

      The SNP Scottish government will enact trial without a Jury the excuse being in order to clear a serious backlog in the courts.

      All for your own good a wellbeing the state knows best and you the voting public are just spectators so don’t even bother complaining princess Nicola is in charge.

      Today the same SNP Government will widen the scope of their Vax pass to include pubs and restaurants ,

      Early December this measure will be further widened to include public transport and many shops if you don’t have your papers you won’t be able to operate or live in the society they are creating

      Yep all these measures are to protect you , while you are preoccupied with hopes of Indyref2 quietly and out of site all these little beavers are removing any basic rights you have and not a word from the Scottish government funded media ,

    57. James Barr Gardner says:

      The SNP’s million Independence Newspapers is a farce, if a million SNP votes had not been squandered Scotland would have been discussing the the divorce terms today !

    58. James Che. says:

      Sorry Stu,
      It may be considered of topic and early on in the thread. But as far as Scotland and independence is concerned the narrative in this documentary by John Pilger is pretty important to us all as a nation.
      No point in fighting for independence from any angle, and very little point in Brexit.
      If the bigger plan from America and England is to use Britain as a sitting target, and its people as experiments.

      Fancy using humans in a food experiment to see how much radiation a human can stand before they die? While smiling at you and shaking your hand.
      Well it’s been done.
      Why do I have this sense of foreboding that Scotland and the people of the world in general, are mare toys in their hands for they seem to have no value to how far they will go with atrocities against humans. Including against their own. If the temptation of power and money are staring at them.
      “Such a parcel o rogues” appears very gentile words in comparison to how they leaders think now.
      Well the puppeteers who control Scotland have changed hands.
      And Scotland is just an experiment on humans.

      For others that read this I would recommend watching the documentary to the end and wonder who controls our Scottish politics or politicians and who we are up against in reality when we fight for our independence of Scotland. England’s Westminster? America’s war machine or both.

      We need to hasten our attempts of sovereignty or be dammed,

      THE COMING WAR ON CHINA. Documentary. John Pilger. You tube.

      This is another journalist they tried destroying.

    59. Ron Maclean says:

      In ‘Scotland’s Oil’ – grousebeater.wordpress.com – Alex Salmond showing leadership. He says development of the Cambo oil field should go ahead providing it is carbon neutral. I agree, with the additional proviso that a substantial portion of its revenue is used to enlarge and stabilise Scotland’s renewables industry. That would include training a substantial workforce across Scotland including redundant employees from the diminishing Scottish oil industry,

    60. Republicofscotland says:

      Sturgeon the Betrayer has been invited to speak to MPs on the Scottish Affairs Committee in Westminster, by the wannabe speaker of the house Pete Wishart.

      The treacherous b*stard Wishart said.

      “Wishart added in a statement: “We are inviting the First Minister to appear before our committee to discuss a number of issues which are also the responsibility of the Scottish Government, such as areas of welfare policy and higher education.”

      “Her evidence will be invaluable in considering the ongoing work between the UK and Scottish governments, and how this relationship could be strengthened to benefit the Scottish people.”

      It looks to me as Wishart is looking for ways to strengthen Scotland’s ties with the union, instead of weakening them, and sturgeon will probably aid him in his task.

      https://archive.md/MXpqH#selection-1689.3-1693.189

    61. Chas says:

      Breeks 8.37

      I read the blog detailed in your comment and posted my thoughts.
      Unfortunately they did not get passed the censors!
      In future I will simply treat this blog similar to the WGD one.
      Not worth the bother!

    62. Republicofscotland says:

      “Welsh Labour and Plaid Cymru have agreed a co-operation deal in the Senedd [Welsh Parliament] which will last “for the coming three years”.”

      Y’know, I can see Wales achieving independence before Scotland does, it certainly wouldn’t surprise me.

      https://www.leaderscouncil.co.uk/news/welsh-labour-and-plaid-cymru-strike-senedd-co-operation-deal

    63. Confused says:

      The “coming war with China” was described in an unclassified Pentagon document called “Vision 2020”, and was published in the early 1990s.

      What some credulous and gullible people might call “conspiracy theories” are often stated (fairly) plainly, out in the open, a long way ahead of time.

      – it is all there. China’s economic rise and challenge to America, its lack of resources, the dependence on sea routes.

      Brezinski, the old cold war hawk is also worth reading – he boasts about “arming up islamic nutters” to “destroy communism”. Price worth paying, etc. The cold warrior also described the New Silk Road/ infrastructure integration between Russia and China, but in the reverse, as something America must prevent at all costs, otherwise, it won’t be “USA #1” anymore.

      Now, you don’t get this reading the Sun or the Mail, or even the Telegraph, you would need to be a bit of a defence geek, or have professional interest, with access to a good library; the general public remain uninformed, primarily through misdirection and their own laziness. Suitably informed – Russia Bad, China Bad – chinaman done r4pe a tennis player, putin poisoned a guy etc – all these stories can be taken for what they are; crude propaganda, fumbling and desperate, like a fresher going at a bra strap.

      Other titbits? I think the rise of drone warfare is described, as is – some might find this interesting – “the middle class may once again become a revolutionary class”. The working class, smashed to bits, worldwide, gets to laugh as the rich man’s lapdogs join them in the gutter; office make-work is going due to automation. There may also be a reference to a “resurgence of nationalism” worldwide.

      I have always admired Pilger for his integrity; it is significant that he used to get a lot of his work published in the Guardian, nowadays he is haram.

      While “reading more widely” is to be recommended, you can read a load of shite TBH – e.g. the so-called “neocons” were around in the 1970s, writing nonsense like – the soviets had a massive “mind control device” in siberia (to mess with our heads) – it was a phased array missile warning radar. Even Reagan thought these guys “crazy” but they have ruled US foreign policy at least since Dubya.

    64. twathater says:

      I’ve just noticed Stu’s “Free Money Offer” post has been INUNDATED with the deviants supporters betting big money because Nicla , Mike,Pishfart ,daddy bear,Useless and assorted other science denying perverts all believe in the messiah

    65. Johnny says:

      Taking care not to pollute the free money offer when I am not taking the wager, I do wonder if it might end up the least commented on thread ever on Wings (even more than some of the early ones before – I think – Wings had ever become a ‘full time’ thing for Stu)?

      You’d think all those SNP aficionados who don’t like Stu – and tell us that Nicola will *definitely* deliver – would be champing at the bit to bankrupt him by winning the bet. No?

    66. James Che. says:

      Confused,

      At least you took an interest in whom may be running Scotland from afar and what we are up against,
      Who is pulling puppet strings and creating the discordances in Scotland.

      I remember sturgeon pow wowing with Hilary Clinton and Bill Gates. And sucking up to those that have the finger on the nuclear button that is on Scottish soil.

      And I agree with your thoughts that yesterday’s conspiracy theories often turn out to be today’s reality.
      But you are not supposed to know what they have in store for you before it has been implemented,
      One of those to keep in mind is the control and influence that Bill Gates has over most politicians when it comes to small pox, covid vaccines and him having a large financial interest,

      One could hold a theory that control of viruses and having the control of the vaccines profits himself and politicians whom pass on contracts to family and buddies. And the control over people around the world must do ones ego wonders.
      Just a theory.

    67. James Che. says:

      Confused
      just for a smile.
      I think that the soviets May have had a massive mind device, and used it on the SNP 😉

    68. Republicofscotland says:

      Talk about robbing the public purse, this lot are coining it in.

      https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/glasgows-25-million-wage-bill-22235898

    69. Ruby says:

      Johnny says:
      23 November, 2021 at 3:51 pm

      You’d think all those SNP aficionados who don’t like Stu – and tell us that Nicola will *definitely* deliver – would be champing at the bit to bankrupt him by winning the bet. No?

      Reply

      I would like to see them taking bets on She/Her delivering a referendum.

      I would bet on that! I like free money.

      ‘Wee Ginger Dug’ I’m told also likes free money so perhaps he could set something up.

      Do you think he would be willing to ‘bet the cottage on it’?

    70. Dan says:

      I’d place a bet with Stu if I had a plan that if I lost I could remain anonymous…

      Plus there’s the question of what currency we would use for payment of the bet…

    71. Robert Graham says:

      As the Rev has said on the latest post

      Don’t comment just accept the bet and back it with cash

      Sturgeon today playing good cop bad cop polka

      Playing everyone for mugs , her words ” it was close very close ” whether we expanded the Vax pass coverage ,

      So here is princess Nicola doing everyone a favour other countries have went much further she says but not us , ha ha she’s fkn loving being the petty dictator again ,

      If this Vax pass was such a overwhelming success you better believe she would have expanded it to include places you wouldn’t have believed were possible

      She has fooled most people into believing she has given them something , oh dear most won’t question it but if they think about it what she has reportedly given them they already have and that’s free choice ,

      Just the same way we don’t have to ask permission to hold a referendum on Scottish independence the UN specifically forbids any nation interfering where a smaller nation wishes to succeed from a larger partner in any alliance or partnership , The UN goes into detail about it because it’s happened before and it is recognised as a problem that’s why certain protocols have been put in place

      Sturgeon and her gang have totally ignored Scotlands place in this Union and have used the gold standard referendum as a excuse for doing fk all , even her supporters are figuring out this deception Bawjaws is not the impediment she is , the British establishment are happy for her to be in position because they know they control her .

    72. @Confused

      ` the soviets had a massive “mind control device” in siberia`

      we have the establishment controlled BBC,

      beamed into every house in UK every day for last 100 years.

    73. twathater says:

      @ Breeks 8.37am I agree wholeheartedly that barrhead boys prism for Sunday is well worth a viewing , Alf Baird as usual is excellent as is Iain Lawson and Phil Boswell BUT I cannot understand ANY praise of Douglas Chapman , he waffled on and was as insipid as you would expect from a Sturgeon sycophant

      He has been a MP since 2015 so the obvious question has to be WTF has he been doing since 2015 , even when he spoke about a Rosyth ferry his enthusiasm was BLAH

      TBQH I think he is indicative of Sturgeon’s NSNP where everyone has had the drive knocked out of them or they’ve been picked because they’re bots and will only follow the leaders orders

    74. Derek says:

      @Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      23 November, 2021 at 10:45 am

      You need a penis to commit rape under Scots law. Only men have those.

      Sorry, been out all day. I had a quick look at the definition in my somewhat elderly copy of Gloag & Henderson (Criminal Law; 21); it doesn’t say man anywhere, but it says it everywhere. “Penetration, even to the slightest extent, is enough.”. By not specifying, and defining it by bodily functions though, this means that self-ID is no escape.

      Doesn’t help prevent though.

      I must have a look at a newer edition…

    75. Hatuey says:

      “If this Vax pass was such a overwhelming success you better believe she would have expanded it to include places you wouldn’t have believed were possible…”

      Define success?

      I’ve heard a lot of people discussing the proposed vaccine passport and say things like “it wouldn’t stop people passing on the virus” and other such nonsense.

      It’s true that it wouldn’t but that has nothing to do with anything.

      The real purpose, plainly, is to “encourage” people to get vaccinated.

      Data from around the world shows that the vaccines save lives and that’s irrefutable now.

      We have some respite in this country but you can be certain that cases and hospitalisations will rise in the first half of January — and January will be grimmer than it might have been if the passport scheme was expanded to include sectors such as hospitality.

      Yet again we see health policy being driven by economic considerations and a desire to be popular.

    76. Ruby says:

      Robert Graham says:
      23 November, 2021 at 7:21 pm
      As the Rev has said on the latest post

      Don’t comment just accept the bet and back it with cash

      Reply

      Very weird that people have ignored Stu and have gone ahead and commented!

      Any views on why they have done this?

    77. Ruby says:

      “You need a penis to commit rape under Scots law. Only men have those.”

      According to the FM of Scotland ‘trans women are women’
      which means women have penises.

      Are you able to accept this?

      I’m finding it very difficult to accept.

      Any reason why trans women can’t be defined as trans women?

      That would solve a lot of problems.

      Trans men & women are regularly described as transgender for example the T in LGBTQ+ stands for transgender.

      If as the FM of Scotland says ‘transwomen are women’ then why do organisations like Stonewall describe them using a T?

      If it’s OK for Stonewall etc to describe ‘transwomen as transwomen’ why would it not be OK for everyone else? Why does the FM of Scotland insist ‘transwomen are women’?

      The reality is ‘transwomen are transwomen’ and transwomen have penises.
      (sure there are some exceptions ie those who have had their penis removed)

      I would quite like to hear from transwomen as to why being described as a transwoman would be unacceptable.

    78. Ruby says:

      This poll has made me realise that the idea that ‘transwomen are women’ renders any breakdown between the opinions of male & female meaningless.

      I’m pretty annoyed by that!

      I feel robbed!

    79. Hatuey says:

      “EXCLUSIVE: Girl Guides launch probe into commissioner, 58, who identifies as trans after campaigners uncovered ‘disturbing’ social media messages and pictures including her dressed as a dominatrix and wielding an assault rifle “

      https://archive.md/rKnHq

      What could possibly go wrong…

    80. Laing b french says:

      Ofcourse all women involved were members of the SNP. Libel in this case doesn’t exist ?
      1 way of FKN the scottish Government: DONT FKN VOTE! abandon the elections create numerous independent political parties .

    81. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009 states that rape occurs when a person intentionally or recklessly penetrates another person’s vagina, anus or mouth with their penis, where the victim does not consented”

      https://www.scotland.police.uk/what-s-happening/campaigns/2021/get-consent/what-is-consent-know-the-facts/

    82. Breeks says:


      twathater says:
      23 November, 2021 at 9:45 pm

      … BUT I cannot understand ANY praise of Douglas Chapman , he waffled on and was as insipid as you would expect from a Sturgeon sycophant.

      I’m not gonna defend anybody in the SNP, (well maybe one or two), but I thought it was moderately encouraging that a serving SNP MP was engaging with Roddy’s blog, which has been attacked by the Trans Taliban and Sturgeon Acolytes.

      I hope nobody is in any doubt about my own opinions on Sturgeon and her feckless SNP wrecking crew, but sooner or later, there will either be a total takeover by ALBA with the SNP all but irrelevant Labour-style, or, when confronted with a water tight and deliverable Constitutional strategy being steered by ALBA and the SSRG, there will be a backlash against Queen Sturgeon, who has already sabotaged one emphatically pro Independence Scottish Parliament. Maybe then, not before, we can see if there is anything to salvage from an SNP under new management.

      Bad enough she has wrecked Scotland’s Brexit opportunity, wrecked a SNP / ALBA uniformly pro Independence Holyrood, tried to upstage the Wee ALBA book with her million pictures of me Sunday Supplement, and is now manoeuvring to wreck ALBA’s Plebiscite General Election strategy… How many vital opportunities can she sabotage before the SNP YESSERs, if there are any left in the SNP have just had enough?

    83. sarah says:

      Joanna is brave – she has tweeted a photo of self with Alex and Tasmina plus a comment that cross-party co-operation is important! Ooft!

    84. Breeks says:


      sarah says:
      24 November, 2021 at 12:31 pm

      Joanna is brave – she has tweeted a photo of self with Alex and Tasmina plus a comment that cross-party co-operation is important! Ooft!

      No problem but the picture, but the “working towards a Referendum” bit is a tiny wee bit exasperating. Has she not read the SSRG’s open letter? (That’s a reply I would LOVE to see).

      Maybe we can arrange a photo op for Joanna Cherry and Scottish Sovereignty Research Group… maybe organise a bit of a sit down, have lunch, … a wee chat….. Ha!Ha!Ha! or should that be Ho!Ho!Ho!…

      Ok, Ok, Lock the doors, and nobody leaves until the Treaty of Union is dead. lol…. And a Happy New Year!

    85. James Che. says:

      All that WE need to remember is that the people of Scotland are sovereign above the devolved government,

      That WE have not given her our sovereignty, it is on loan to carry out a task for us, the people that voted for snp party to deliver that which has its foundation solely in its creation as a Scottish Independence Party.

      WE can withdraw our offer of loaned sovereignty to them at any time.
      The reason for doing so?

      She went against the results of the last Scottish election. has changed what the results state we voted for.

      In Scotland we did not vote the Green Party into a coalition with the SNP. Or visa versa.
      This makes void the Scottish election results.

    86. James Che. says:

      We never voted the Green Party into government in the last election.

      This has been an attempt by the Snp and the Green Party to thwart the electoral office and the results of an election,

      both parties have ignored the resulting votes of the Scottish electorate.

    87. Breeks says:

      Douglas Chapman MP on Barrheadboy’s blog, Joanna Cherry pictured beside Alex Salmond and Tasman Ahmed-Sheikh, now Chris McEleney pictured beside Angus MacNeil…

      https://twitter.com/ChrisMcEleny/status/1463487140009021444

      My, my, my, Queen Sturgeon the Betrayer will be beside herself with all this fraternisation with the enemy.

    88. Stoker says:

      BBC NEWS24 Headlines at 5pm tonight:

      “Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says she will oppose moves to remove Holyrood’s right to hold a referendum.”

      WHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

      What she gonna do? The same way she stopped Brexit? GTF Sturgeon and let a real leader do the job, one who doesn’t tolerate Scotland being humiliated. One who prioritises taking back our right of self-determination. Sturgeon is inept, incapable and discredited beyond belief.

    89. twathater says:

      @ Breeks 10.57am , I was impressed that Douglas Chapman resigned his position of treasurer because he couldn’t access the books , BUT he stopped short of any criticism of the sturrells and the missing indy funds , as to his appearance on BB , I am a cynic that thinks maybe Douglas is sitting firmly on the fence and NOT wanting to choose a side , he wants to show that he still supports indy to placate the unwashed but at the same time doesn’t want to feel the wrath or revenge of mother superior (OMG can I still use that word)

      Methinks there are quite a few like Douglas , bricking it now because they believe the sturgeonator is being exposed bit by bit and it won’t be too long before the MSM has been told to destroy her , then the ceiling WILL come down on her , them , and their deviant perverted accomplices

      BUT as with the rest of the craven cowardly trai tors who have allowed this science denying creature to poison and destroy the cohesion of the REAL independence fraternity SHE and THEY will NOT be forgotten or forgiven
      It has been said MANY TIMES, ALBA has to be very aware and VERY CAUTIOUS to who they allow access to , I would BLOCK ALL the SNIVELLING SILENT COWARDS who sided with this parasite

    90. Ruby says:

      “Police investigate SNP over independence campaign cash claims”

      Did anything ever come of this police investigation?

    91. Ruby says:

      What about this one?

      Cops probe claims of Scottish Government information leak during Alex Salmond inquiry
      Police Scotland confirmed it had received two complaints about the ‘potential unlawful disclosure of information’

    92. Ruby says:

      ‘Sturgeon’s book publisher investigated over award of £295,000 taxpayer cash
      Financial crimes unit are probing claims rules were broken when Highlands and Islands Enterprise awarded grants to Sandstone Press of Inverness’

      It seems not a lot happens with these police investigations.
      I wonder if this will will just disappear like the other two mentioned above.

    93. Republicofscotland says:

      Ruby @5.30pm.

      I was thinking that myself today, what happened to police investigation on the missing £600K which was meant to be ringfenced? and what happened with the police investigation into the leaked info to the Daily Record newspaper with regards to Alex Salmond, have the investigations just been swept under the carpet

    94. Ruby says:

      The other investigation that is slow to come up with an answer is the enquiry into what caused the explosion at Kincaidston.

    95. James Che. says:

      Ruby,
      Thanks for responding to Alec Lorax on my behalf .
      As I have mentioned here recently our families are going through some pretty tough times right now and we / I do not get the opportunity to be on the ball as I used to be here.

      Three funerals and two family members at home in the last stages of cancer with little or no response and help from the NHS.

      And to top it all the car broke down yesterday.

      When I look and live through this nonsense, of corruption and stupidity of politics and politicians in Scotland and Great Britain as a whole, the cancel culture, the wokeness and transgender issues that are very damaging to society, it is difficult to believe that my father and grandfather fought in two world wars to achieve this stupidity, they wouldn’t believe this is what they fought for.

      Nothing, and I mean nothing compares for the urgent need for Scotland and its people to break away from the old style of politics, the old MSM, the lack of democracy for people, the lack of free speech, etc.

      If these tough time have taught me anything it is the need for all of us to make that change.
      For the people to come together.
      And for the people of Scotland to say enough is enough,
      The way we are being governed in embarrassing,
      The laws being passed are harmful to us all,
      The destruction of businesses.
      The destruction of our health service.
      are aimed at breaking down society for the the purpose of controlling people under draconian government. And to bring in rapid change at our expense to build back in a way that is better for them, not us.

      Time for the people to wake up and recognise we are not each other’s enemies, As we are considered by those in control to be the governments enemies. And they certainly imbue that feeling upon us day by day through lockdowns, climate change, transgenderism, BLM, cancel culture, to change capital financing, and much more.
      The onslaught is from every angle under the cover of “Build back better”.
      We the people are But the experimental pawns to change the world to make life comfortable for themselves.

    96. Breeks says:

      https://archive.md/fiYI3

      Gotta say, I couldn’t give a flying fk about her approval ratings.

      But the bit that struck me was ” Fewer than one third of SNP voters ranked independence on their hierarchy of priorities.”

      Therein, I suspect, is the reason for frantic hostility towards ALBA. An Independence Movement split right down the middle suits the SNP’s charlatan agenda perfectly.

    97. Hatuey says:

      “It is almost as if my opponents have concluded they can’t beat me or remove me from office themselves, so they’re hoping that I’ll remove myself from office. But they are going to be really disappointed because I’m going to be around a lot longer.” https://archive.md/7bJaO

      To be fair, I’d guess that most of her opponents have probably concluded they are dealing with a deranged sociopath who might try and throw them in jail or set attacks dogs on them, if they get in the way. In politics they call it tyranny; in schools bullying.

      But, yes, please keep going. Keep rotting away. Whatever. Scottish politics was dire before and now it’s dire in an atmosphere of fear, hopelessness, and institutional corruption. Well done.

      Personally, I’ve moved on to quantum mechanics. There are some similarities with politics — to be found in things like the ‘double-slit experiment’ where it seems just by monitoring the behaviour of sub-atomic particles we affect the way they behave, and then you have these little bastardly quarks that seem able to be in two places at the same time — but in quantum physics those who reveal the truth are awarded Nobel prizes rather than attacked or thrown in jail.

    98. Ruby says:

      Nicola Sturgeon’s approval rating dropping is good news but could be bad news for betting.

      Her fans might be less willing to ‘bet the cottage’ on her
      offering an IndyRef2.

      If the press start doing some investigative reporting into the two police investigations mentioned earlier betting could come to a complete standstill.

      Then there is the issue of women having penises! That could be a very hard sell.

    99. Ruby says:

      If the explosion at Kincaidston was caused by a gas leak due to old & corroded piping the question would be how many other places have old & corroded piping.

      This has the potential to be a huge issue.

    100. Ruby says:

      I spotted a book entitled

      ‘The Toxic Influence of Narcissism Explained by Doctor Ramani Durvasula Ph.D’

      I thought that book might be worth a look at. Could give the answer to Sturgeon’s strange behaviour.

    101. Breeks says:

      Ruby says:
      25 November, 2021 at 1:16 pm

      If the press start doing some investigative reporting into the two police investigations mentioned earlier betting could come to a complete standstill.

      Then there is the issue of women having penises! That could be a very hard sell.

      Plus the not so delicate matter of Scotland’s Political Prisoner being released… Assuming his time behind bars hasn’t crushed Craig’s spirit. Perhaps it’s time for others to take up Craig’s defence, and we focus on keeping Craig out of harms way.

      No offence to Craig Murray whatsoever, but we must never forget Sturgeon and the Establishment had Alex Salmond in their cross hairs, not Craig Murray. And when that truth comes out, the whole truth, and it will, Craig Murray will emerge fully vindicated and his imprisonment will be a permanent stain on Scotland’s Justice System.

    102. Ruby says:

      https://archive.md/NyAy2

      More ‘Alphabetties’ allowed to remain anonymous????

    103. Ruby says:

      Breeks says:
      25 November, 2021 at 1:45 pm

      Plus the not so delicate matter of Scotland’s Political Prisoner being released…

      Reply

      Easy to forget when there are so many huge issues which seem to be just ignored.

      As you say the most important one being the Alex Salmond scandal.

      We had the ‘Holyrood-Alex Salmond inquiry’ and absolutely nothing happened.

      It’s all very strange!

    104. wee monkey says:

      James Che. @ 1059…” “.

      Well said. Scottish society is being dismembered as some horrific social engineering experiment designed to do nothing more than feather the beds of a small number of political “elites”.

    105. James Che. says:

      Wee monkey,

      Well said,

      The attack on us is from all society angles. Which makes the the global plans more obvious even to those that are just waking up,
      It can not be by mere accident that it is happening in every country at once. That people are protesting around the world. But MSM think they can hide it,
      Someone is funding it.

    106. Republicofscotland says:

      The Public Health Service care home deaths report, that was suppressed prior to the May 6th elections, has still not been released all these months later, possibly due to the figures being embarrassing to to the SNP government.

      https://archive.md/JB7KG

    107. Republicofscotland says:

      A eye opening thread on Iain Lawson blog, in which he has info on the SNP that they’d rather you didn’t know about, or that you read.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/11/25/its-information-overload-time/

    108. Breeks says:


      wee monkey says:
      25 November, 2021 at 3:29 pm

      James Che. @ 1059…” “.

      Well said. Scottish society is being dismembered as some horrific social engineering experiment designed to do nothing more than feather the beds of a small number of political “elites”.

      On one level, that’s exactly right, but on other levels, you look back at the 60’s, when society was in “moral decline”, the Cold War, when our society was watching grim cartoons about the aftermath of a nuclear war…

      Then we had punk that was going to end in tears…

      These things pass.

      I honestly believe this bollocks about trans people is just that… absolute bollocks. The world of trans people hasn’t changed, not the average male’s innate misogyny. The only “new” phenomenon is social media which now allows the world’s weirdos and misfits to get co-ordinated. Madness, which would never have seen the light of day 30 years ago, can revel in it’s out of body existence on the internet, and revel in anonymity. That is the new phenomenon we’re unsettled by. Not the weirdos and misfits.

      Our society has always been screwed up. It just depended from what direction you saw it from. Above it looking down, or below it looking up.

      Even a poor Scotland is a rich country by some people’s standards. But being rich doesn’t make us better.

      Here in Scotland, it isn’t actually all that difficult to find yourself homeless. But say that homeless man knew his history and knew how to build himself a house, and resolved to build a Scottish Blackhouse, off the beaten track a bit, out the way, not bothering anybody, a Scottish vernacular dwelling as was the norm throughout the Highlands and Islands for centuries.

      Talk about green? Everything was already there. The walls from dry stone and peat or soil, the roof from recycled wood with turf and thatch roof… A man in desperate need could give himself and family a redoubtable shelter, a home, with nothing but his own industry. – But we won’t allow it.

      But no, we live in a “developed” society that would tear it down, make him bankrupt by fines and ostracised with stigma, and make him homeless again. Jesus H, our society would even pull his fkg tent down, nevermind a house. So what have we learned this past 200 years?

      It isn’t a civilised society that would send the authorities to put the roof in and haul it all down. A civilised society would make sure he was never homeless to begin with.

      A civilised society also wouldn’t bomb the living shit out of people on the other side of the world, reducing their homes to rubble, and their lives doomed to decades of deprivation.

      Scotland is capable of so much more than this. But Scotland has never been built for us Scots. It has never been asked, what can we do to make Scotland prosperous, happy and healthy? It has always been decided for us, with the only relevant priority to make money for some parasite who probably doesn’t even live here.

      These parasites are perennial. Cut one down and another grows in its place.

      Only Independence, and freedom to be the prosperous, happy country we should be, will allow Scotland’s culture and society to flourish.

      I would end the Union tomorrow. We have NOTHING to lose.

    109. robbo says:

      Ruby

      The Gas pipes at Kincaidston are 45 years old easy. SO like all old pipes the danger is always there. It was a new estate built around same time or just before my old new school at time. Even my old new school has been added/rebuilt recently and it was built after Kincaidston. We all have a life span I suppose.

      There’s probably dozens of places similar around the whole of the UK.

    110. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Breeks 7:59pm
      First up I agree with wee monkey and James Che. I take issue with your 1960s comment. There was no moral decline in the 60s. Working class people never got anywhere near that. We were too busy trying to earn money to eat. Free sex was a bourgeoisie concept and still is. To conflate punk with GRA is also problematic. Self ID etc is going to be written in law. Punk was a cultural transient. After watching the FMQS today I will join in the Douglas Ross bet. She will never last another 4 years. Credit where credit is due. Sarwar ripped her a new orifice. It’s only a matter of time. Bairns dying will not be tolerated.

    111. Hatuey says:

      “Bairns dying will not be tolerated.”

      I can’t believe this is still happening.

    112. Ruby says:

      Anyone following the story about ‘Priti Patel ‘no longer invited’ to France’s migrant crisis meeting after Boris Johnson letter”?

      The three things I found interesting in the Guardian article are:

      1. UK no ID cards
      2. UK Dublin convention. Brexit ends obligation to to apply to first country.
      3. Le Touquet agreement

      https://archive.md/BVXq9

      “The French, in turn, complain that the UK, bereft of identity cards, oversees a labour market into which people can readily blend invisibly.”

      “Faced by this labour market, French opposition politicians, but not yet the government itself, are questioning the Le Touquet agreement, the bilateral treaty that allows British Border Force officers to carry out passport checks in France, and vice versa. The French National Consultative Commission on Human Rights recently said its terms “make France the police arm of British migration policy”.”

      “Before Brexit, it is claimed, this was justifiable, since the UK was subject to the EU Dublin convention, which obliges asylum seekers to apply to the first country in Europe where they have stayed. With Brexit, that obligation dies.”

      “But to unilaterally tear up the Le Touquet agreement – in effect waving migrants and refugees through to the UK – would be to drop a bomb into the relationship.”

    113. Republicofscotland says:

      The Injustice secretary (with Craig Murray’s prison sentence in mind) Keith Brown will say at the SNP’s conference this weekend, that we will not allow Scotland’s future to be limited by unionist parties.

      I’d imagine Brown will say this without one shred of embarrassment, knowing fine well that its the SNP and it current hierarchy that’s holding Scotland back from fulfilling its potential by keeping us tied to this rancid onesided union.

      This will be the SNP’s 87th conference, and in my opinion it will be the most depressing.

    114. Ruby says:

      ‘Le Touquet agreement’ being cancelled would put a different light on whether or not Scotland should have a border.

      During the 2014 IndyRef it was generally assumed that the UK would remain in the EU. That was a mistake.

      It would be a mistake to think ‘Le Touquet agreement’ will be in place forever.

    115. John Main says:

      Rev Stu

      Regarding the FREE MONEY OFFER thread.

      You do realise, don’t you, that if NS stays on, and calls a referendum, and gets a majority for Yes, and Scotland becomes independent, then nobody has a scooby what currency the Scottish bet winners will be claiming their winnings in?

      Maybes that’s the reason so few punters have come forwards.

      What other reason could there be?

    116. John Main says:

      @Ruby 26 November, 2021 at 10:21 am

      “During the 2014 IndyRef it was generally assumed that the UK would remain in the EU. That was a mistake.”

      Maybes an even bigger mistake was to assume that an Independent Scotland would remain in the EU.

      We will never know what the outcome may have been if Scots voters had been clearly told that Independence would mean Independence, not indirect rule from Brussels.

    117. Stuart MacKay says:

      Chris Grey’s latest Brexit blog, https://archive.md/kqPZ8, looks at whether the end is nigh for Johnson and how his fate is tied to the ill-fated venture. That got me thinking whether the drop in popularity of Sturgeon is due to the same effect.

      They are, in a sense, both products of Brexit and Covid-19 and now the population is getting more than a little fed up of both, perhaps the time is right to clean house. I certainly think we’re at the real beginning of ‘the new normal’.

    118. Hatuey says:

      “It would be a mistake to think ‘Le Touquet agreement’ will be in place forever.”

      I agree. They should get rid of it and let people go where they want.

      What exactly are people scared of?

      History shows that freedom of movement and migrant labour are central to economic prosperity. Conversely, when you cut it off the economy goes downhill. The 1905 Aliens Act being a good example — as the U.K. blocked immigration, the US opened up and actively encouraged it. I don’t need to explain the rest but there are many other examples.

      Immigration controls are acts of brutal violence. If you support immigration controls, you support brutal violence towards those who want to move freely and those bodies that wash up on your beaches are the consequence.

      It doesn’t take much intelligence to see all this from the point of view of the immigrants. If you support the brutal violence of immigration controls, you either lack intelligence or lack human compassion.

    119. Stoker says:

      Breeks posted on 25 November, 2021 at 11:19 am:

      https://archive.md/fiYI3

      And in this article that heavily quotes the discredited Unionist Prof Curtis it states: “Nicola Sturgeon approval ratings drop by nearly 40 points with Scottish voters”

      The article then goes on to say: “Speaking to the BBC last night Sturgeon said that the pro-independence campaign has “still got a job to do”. “I think we are much closer to that than ever before, but are we there yet? No,”

      Here’s a wee bit of free advice for Queen Selfie, advice that comes cheaper than that army of overpaid “advisors” she employs. And it’s this, Your Majesty:

      You were riding high in the polls when the Yes Movement was responsible for 23 polls in-a-row all favouring indy. You were then exposed as a fraudster trying to fit up your old friend & mentor for a rape he wasn’t guilty of. Exposed for prioritising Stonewalls evil agenda against women over indy. Exposed for obtaining monies from the Yes Movement under false pretences. Exposed for using the pandemic for self-promotion because it certainly wasn’t for taking care of Scotland’s health, your disgraceful Covid record tells us that.

      This article is then published, Your Majesty, revealing that you’ve dropped way down in the ratings among the electorate and it quotes you as saying you don’t think we’re there yet? Only the most seriously narcissistic self-server can’t see where the problem lies (lies in every meaning of the word). And btw, Your Majesty, here’s another clue to where the problem stems from – The SNP has lost somewhere in the region of 70,000 members due to your stewardship.

      The problem is YOU, Your Majesty. You are selfish, spineless, self-obsessed, discredited, a proven liar on multiple occasions, you’ve used & abused the electorates votes, you’ve failed to deliver on three major occasions – The Power Grab, Brexit & IndyRef. And you are tactically barren. This list is by no means comprehensive.

      Yes, you’re still the most popular “leader” but then we only need look at who your competition is, don’t we? Look closer and we see that you’re almost rated on a par with *Anas Sarwar*. LOL!

      Your epitaph should be a picture on your headstone, inside one of those wee cameo-type displays, containing a selfie of you in a ‘Baby Box’ wearing your crown. And the inscription on the headstone: BOUGHT & SOLD FOR STONEWALL GOLD

    120. Breeks says:


      John Main says:
      26 November, 2021 at 11:56 am

      …We will never know what the outcome may have been if Scots voters had been clearly told that Independence would mean Independence, not indirect rule from Brussels.

      Given the emphatic Scottish result of the Brexit Referendum, I suspect we probably do know the answer to that. Scotland was, and is pro European on the whole, despite our perceptions of Europe being continually “massaged” by the British Establishment’s prejudices.

      As for “indirect rule from Brussels”, sorry John but it makes you sound like a jaded Brexiteer yourself, who actually does take his lead from the BBC or reading the Telegraph or Daily Mail.

    121. Breeks says:


      Stuart MacKay says:
      26 November, 2021 at 12:05 pm

      ….That got me thinking whether the drop in popularity of Sturgeon is due to the same effect.

      If people think dropping 40 points in a popularity index is a measure of anything constructive, just wait to see what Sturgeon’s popularity will be like once she’s faced rigorous scrutiny and informed analysis of her failures, constitutional illiteracy, and malicious vindictiveness… somewhere where you don’t have the right to remain silent, redact the evidence, or plead amnesia.

      Strikes me Rev Stu could offset his FREE MONEY bet with another bet against Sturgeon agreeing to a live interview with any of Scotland’s alternative pro-indy media. You know, the ones she doesn’t subsidise with great wads of taxpayers cash to say nice things about her. The ones who might actually ask her an awkward question.

    122. Breeks says:

      I know it’s just being flippant, but I had to chuckle that the latest idea of the Britnats is to have a Union Division in the army.

      The Union Division, with Commander in Chief, Spike Milligan.

    123. Hatuey says:

      Stoker: “BOUGHT & SOLD FOR STONEWALL GOLD”

      Great comment, on the whole.

      Regarding the “stonewall gold”, as I understand it, the payment is in the other direction.

    124. Republicofscotland says:

      A clarion call of conscience from Iain to the those who know what’s going on within the SNP, and to the membership to act and do something about it before its too late.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/11/26/snp-members-read-this-before-you-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-22289

    125. Republicofscotland says:

      SNP MPs, bar one or two of them, refused to co-operate with the ALBA MP’s at Westminster on an early day motion, to discuss why, and to try and repeal the Serious Crime Act 2005 that includes our national Parliament, that stop Scots demonstrating outside it.

      https://www.barrheadboy.com/hanvey-calls-out-snp-for-failing-to-defend/

    126. Ruby says:

      Hatuey says:
      26 November, 2021 at 12:11 pm
      “It would be a mistake to think ‘Le Touquet agreement’ will be in place forever.”

      I agree. They should get rid of it and let people go where they want.

      What exactly are people scared of?

      Reply

      Are you seriously suggesting there should be absolutely no control over who enters a country?

      I’m wondering if you know what ‘Le Touquet agreement’ is?

    127. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      26 November, 2021 at 11:56 am

      Maybes an even bigger mistake was to assume that an Independent Scotland would remain in the EU.

      Reply

      That could have been established had the UK Gov approached the EC for a definitive answer as suggested by Barrosso.
      Remember him and the famous letter from Tugendhat?

      The fact that they didn’t makes me think iScotland would have remained in the EU if that’s what was wanted.

      Michael Forsyth to Michael Moore prior to 2014 IndyRef.
      “Lord Forsyth of Drumlean: You said that you wanted the debate to be as informed as possible. One of the things that Mr Swinney said to us last week was that they had a difficulty in establishing what the position would be vis-a?-vis having to apply for membership of Europe or whether they would be allowed to remain in Europe because the Commission would only talk to Governments, and that the British Government were not prepared to engage on this issue. I find it a bit puzzling how you can reconcile saying, “We are not prepared to talk to the Commission as a Government about what the consequences would be”, with saying at the same time, “We want to have a fully informed debate”. Does Mr Swinney not have a point there?”

    128. Ebok says:

      Breeks says:
      26 November, 2021 at 12:46 pm

      John Main says:
      26 November, 2021 at 11:56 am
      ‘As for “indirect rule from Brussels,” sorry John but it makes you sound like a jaded Brexiteer yourself, who actually does take his lead from the BBC….’

      It pains me to have to disagree with anything you say, Breeks, so please correct any misapprehensions I have.
      I don’t think anyone fully understands the complexities of the European Union, which made it easy for hardliners on either side of the Brexit debate to polarise opinion.
      One thing though that did strike me during the 4 years between the vote and the end of negotiations was that never once can I recall any news/discussion programme on BBC (or any other) where the balance of opinion on the panel was in favour of ‘leave’, despite UK voting for Brexit.
      Also, the penchant of broadcasters to invite hardliners onto these programmes rather than guests who were able give balance and to outline pros and cons was a great shame that served no useful purpose other than ratings for the show.

      But if anyone DID take their lead from the Beeb, then it would have been to remain, and not as you suggest. I thought the media was in favour of ‘remain’ but, ultimately, voters were so sick of the standard of our political leaders, they just wanted to give them a proverbial kicking, just as it was with Corbyn and Trump.

      My main reason for voting leave was that, paradoxically, I’m a lifelong Indy supporter and think that independence in Europe is an oxymoron, in contrast to most Indy supporters who apparently favour remain.
      While I get it that trade with Europe is a massive plus, and I get it that agreed standards should be in place, I can’t understand the need for close political ties, and the suggestion often put forward that we shouldn’t be concerned as would have a seat at the top table is barmy: Scotland would be a minnow in the EU.

      It also concerns me the lack of accountability over decision making, the influence of multi-national corporations, and the perception (?) of neo-liberal tendencies at the heart of the EU.
      This, and many other thorny issues such as fishing, nuclear weapons, migration, European army, the Euro, and who knows what else is in the pipeline that we’d have no control over?

    129. Hatuey says:

      What the chances of the new “terrifying” variant turning up in Glasgow, thanks to COP26? Very good, I’d say. I’d bet on it. That’s a developing story…

      Anyway, who the fuck decided to build a super hospital next to a massive sewage processing plant? Crackers.

      It’s been an interesting week. The popularity ratings confirmed what we all knew; Nicola isn’t very well-liked.

      BBC Scotland and the British State are going to need to find themselves a new puppet and soon. Don’t worry though, they will.

      Apparently there’s an SNP party conference going on. Remember we used to care? “Maybe Nicola will make a big announcement on indyref2…”

      Shower of mugs.

    130. Hatuey says:

      “Are you seriously suggesting there should be absolutely no control over who enters a country?

      I’m wondering if you know what ‘Le Touquet agreement’ is?”

      Yes on your first question. You’ve been programmed if you think it’s a ridiculous idea since people have moved freely all through human history up until about 100 years ago. What are you scared of?

      WRT your second question, I know more about European migration and history than you could possibly imagine. That’s testable, of course. And unlike you, I don’t need Google.

      One of the things that annoys me about discussing stuff online is that you get all these fake people pretending they know stuff when the truth is they only know how to use Google and Wikipedia.

      That’s not knowledge. It’s regurgitating.

    131. Ruby says:

      Had Hautey’s idea of absolutely no control over who enters the country between 1939 – 1946 we would all be speaking German today.

    132. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 5.28 pm

      More to the point, I wonder how many people fleeing the Nazi regime between 1933 and 1939 might have been saved (and indeed what they and their descendants might have contributed to our country) had the British government not closed its doors firmly in their faces save for (relatively) the token number they did accept?

      Lots of people in the UK have bought in to the Faragist “we’ll be swamped” argument of course, whilst closing their eyes to the fact that we take a relatively small number of people in when compared to Germany for instance. In 2015 Germany got ten times as many asylum applications (400,000) as the UK (40,000). We host only 1% of global refugees. Almost 90% of the global refugee population stay in developing countries.

      At the end of 2018 there were 126,720 refugees, 45,244 pending asylum cases and 125 stateless people in the UK. That’s 0.26% of the UK’s total population.

      We also refuse far more cases (1 in 4 asylum applications are rejected in the UK, 4 in 5 are accepted in Denmark for example).

      But yeah, we’ll all be talking Pashtun or Arabic.

      Good grief.

    133. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      26 November, 2021 at 5:56 pm
      @Ruby 5.28 pm

      More to the point,

      Reply

      No it’s not!

      The point was incase you missed is if ‘Le Touquet agreement’ has any implications regarding a border between iScotland and the RUK.

    134. Ruby says:

      “Before Brexit, it is claimed, this was justifiable, since the UK was subject to the EU Dublin convention, which obliges asylum seekers to apply to the first country in Europe where they have stayed. With Brexit, that obligation dies.”

      I didn’t know this and from reading comments I get the impression there are a lot of people who still think asylum seekers are obliged to seek asylum in the first country they arrived in.

    135. Republicofscotland says:

      Hatuey @4.28pm.

      Re COP26, GCHQ pumped 10,000 litres of carcinogenic liquids into rivers in Cornwall, and MI5 and MI6 refuse to disclose (the latter is involved in at least seven ongoing wars around the globe) how much pollution they’ve caused, security services are not exempt from providing this information.

    136. Breeks says:

      Ebok says:
      26 November, 2021 at 4:28 pm

      But if anyone DID take their lead from the Beeb, then it would have been to remain, and not as you suggest. I thought the media was in favour of ‘remain’…

      I think we can agree to differ Ebok and not get upset about it. Taking a longer perspective than the Brexit Campaign, I think the BBC’s attitude towards Europe, be it the Germans, the French, the Italians, whatever… the schoolboy attitude, bigotry and derision has been a disgrace for decades.

      Just look at the way Europe has come together, from the worst depravities of WW2, by and large, the European Nations have learned a great deal from their history, learned to get along, and “grown” accordingly in mutual friendship… precisely what EU was intended to do.

      While here in the UK, the British attitude to the war would make you think it had only finished last year. British TV channels think nothing of running 80 year old wartime propaganda films as “entertainment”. Get over it, FFS.

      How cringeworthy was it to see the UK Government promoting post Brexit UK Trade by flying a WW2 Spitfire on a charm offensive? It’s a pathetic mindset that does the UK no credit whatsoever. Imagine Angela Merkel promoting German trade overseas by sending over a Heinkel 111.

      It’s academic now we are out, but I was ardently pro EU, with all my heart.

      OK, maybe we would find an Indy Scotland not having much voice, and maybe the EU isn’t perfect for Scotland and EFTA is much better. I don’t happen to believe that’s true, but I don’t know.

      But! The scandalous unconstitutional subjugation of Scotland’s sovereign democracy in 2016 was Scotland’s ticket to Independence in 2016. It was right there for the taking, if only Scotland had contested it’s forced removal on Constitutional grounds. EFTA membership simply did not compliment that argument.

      Furthermore, I firmly believed Scotland was actually going to secure Independence in 2016-17, and very soon after, find itself negotiating with a deeply reluctant and obnoxious Westminster/ English Government. Just look at the conduct of the UK Government shamelessly reneging on it’s agreements and protocols with Europe over Northern Ireland, and equally, look to at the cast iron support the EU has given to Ireland, and the strength which this has given to Ireland.

      To me it’s quite a simple question. Who would you want in Scotland’s corner while Scotland negotiated it’s exit and conclusion of the Treaty of Union and demise of the United Kingdom? The EU, or EFTA?

      Now maybe, I don’t know, the EU would back Scotland even if it did choose EFTA rather than EU Membership. But I remember Guy Verhofstadt and Jean Claude Juncker both talking about Scotland being given holding pen status within hours of the Brexit result. Scotland should have seized that opportunity and rammed home it’s Constitutionally justified dissolution of the United Kingdom.

      Europe would backed Scotland to the hilt, and Scotland squandered a truly momentous opportunity by Sturgeon just sitting on her arse doing NOTHING.

    137. Republicofscotland says:

      Its appears strange to me or more like hypocrisy, the level of media reporting in the UK on the plight of the migrants, refugees or whatever your take is on them, on crossing the the channel in overcrowded small inflatable dinghies sometimes with babies onboard, the media also have concern for their welfare.

      Yet the same media and indeed the EU bigwigs stood by an watched as the Polish army (with UK troops in the background)as they teargassed, watercannoned, and used flashbangs behind razor wire and concrete blocks, to stop migrants/refugees from entering the EU.

    138. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Hatuey 9:26am
      The short answer is the Scottish Government don’t have the competency to stop and correct the problems at QEUH. You have written some decent posts today. I am catching up on posts having been looking after a 1 year old for 10 hours. Absolutely knackered. A beer and tv for me now. Nice to see Wingers with more insight and intellect than all of the SNP MPs and MSPs put together. Keep it up.

    139. Fred says:

      Hatuey: “History shows that freedom of movement and migrant labour are central to economic prosperity.”

      Spouted like it’s an empirical truth which, of course, it isn’t.

      Whilst there are certainly some countries in the top 10 (per capita) wealthiest countries in the world who have, and have traditionally always had, higher migration rates, notably the likes of Luxembourg and Belgium, there are others such as Hong Kong and Iceland who have extremely little and clearly do not rely on immigration as a prerequisite to wealth.

    140. Republicofscotland says:

      Fred.

      Hong Kong is not a country, its a Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China. Of course the CIA arm, the NED sponsored the 2014 Umbrella movement, Benny Tai the movement leader was even spotted attending US State Department meetings.

    141. Ruby says:

      One way the UK could stop the deaths in the English Channel would be to cancel ‘Le Touquet agreement’ and move the UK border back to the UK.

    142. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      In the past 24 hours, I have read two articles online, exposing what has been going on within the SNP, in respect of democracy and conspiracies, since Sturgeon took over the reins at the end of 2014.

      They are both easy reads; one is longer than the other. The latest I’ve read is this shorter one:-
      How democracy was stripped from the SNP

      It’s at,
      https://robinmcalpine.org/how-democracy-was-stripped-from-the-snp/

      The second is a fascinating piece of work from Denise Findlay. For those who don’t know, Denise was an office-bearer in the SNP and is now one of Dundee Alba’s representatives on the Alba National Council.

      It’s in 11 parts, each part around a 5 minute read. I couldn’t put it down! I read it all in a wunner. The link will take you to Part 1 and there is a link to the next part on each page.
      Everybody Knows the War is Over. Everybody knows the Good Guys Lost – Part 1

      https://www.denisefindlay.org/post/everybody-knows-the-war-is-over-everybody-knows-the-good-guys-lost-part-1

      Really worth reading.

    143. Ruby says:

      “History shows that freedom of movement and migrant labour are central to economic prosperity.”

      Surely that would depend on whether ‘the freedom of movement & migrant labour’ was leaving or coming to the country.

      Does history not suggest that ‘freedom of movement & migrant’ labour’ has been detrimental for Scotland.

    144. sarah says:

      @ BDTT: as you are so good at providing links [says she winningly!] could you find one to the Perth & Kinross Council’s letter to parents about the Scot Gov “health and Wellbeing census” that is asking children from P6 to S6 how often they have had anal sex, please.

      I want to send it to some neighbours so they can see what is going on.

    145. Hatuey says:

      “Does history not suggest that ‘freedom of movement & migrant’ labour’ has been detrimental for Scotland…”

      No. Quite the contrary. The industrial development of Scotland prior to the discovery of oil, and by that we should be clear that we are talking primarily about the central belt area (outside of the central belt there was really only fishing), depended massively on migrant labour; so much so that we can confidently say that it most likely wouldn’t have taken place, or, if it did, would have been on a significantly lesser scale, had that migrant labour not been available.

      If 1 million migrants from the Middle East turned up in Scotland tomorrow from say the Middle East, you could predict with a lot of certainty that the Scottish economy would be booming as a consequence in about 2 to 5 years and that it would continue to boom for decades. We’ve seen exactly that happen in several places throughout history.

      In ship building, mining, steel, iron, railways, canals, roads, building and construction, in Scotland, you see three distinct contributions by migrant labour which are characteristic; 1) the work they actually do in terms of skills, toil, sweat, etc., 2) the attractive force they generate in terms of inward investment, and 3) the demand they create locally in terms of needing houses, cars, clothes, etc., etc. It would be difficult to exaggerate the importance of these dynamics.

      I forget the exact percentages, but if you were talking about say the 1850 to 1930 period, I’d guess that around 75% of the migrants entering Scotland were Irish. Needless to say, it isn’t coincidence that that timeframe encompasses the periods when Scotland peaked industrially and economically, putting itself on the world map as a leader in various fields such as engineering.

    146. Ruby says:

      Hatuey says:
      27 November, 2021 at 12:09 am
      “Does history not suggest that ‘freedom of movement & migrant’ labour’ has been detrimental for Scotland…”

      No. Quite the contrary. The industrial development of Scotland prior to the discovery of oil, and by that we should be clear that we are talking primarily about the central belt area (outside of the central belt there was really only fishing), depended massively on migrant labour;

      Reply

      Did the need for migrant labour not come about because a huge % of Scots decided to go and help the American, Australian NZ economy?

      The ‘freedom of movement’ which enabled so many Scots to emigrate caused the need for migrant labour.

      The Australian Gov (along with the UK Gov) even encouraged Scots to leave Scotland by offering them passage to Australia for £10.

      Unless you are arguing that migrant labour is better or perhaps cheaper than home grown labour then you would have to agree that ‘freedom of movement’ has been detrimental for Scotland.

      How did ‘freedom of movement’ help Ireland when such a high % of their population came to work in Scotland?

      Sound as if this ‘freedom of movement’ was also detrimental for Ireland.

      Obviously people leaving a country would decrease ‘the demand they create locally in terms of needing houses, cars, clothes, etc., etc.’

      Why would 1 million migrants from the Middle East turning up in Scotland be better than 1 million Scots not leaving the country?

      ‘I forget the exact percentages’

      Anything wrong with using Google to search for the exact percentages?

    147. Hatuey says:

      Lol

      “Did the need for migrant labour not come about because a huge % of Scots decided to go and help the American, Australian NZ economy?

      The ‘freedom of movement’ which enabled so many Scots to emigrate caused the need for migrant labour.”

      You don’t provide any dates so it is difficult to take the question you ask seriously. Thankfully it’s a really stupid question that we can answer regardless.

      When people decide to leave their home country for another, as in economic migrants, they generally do so because they are desperate and their economic prospects are quite poor. Their doing do doesn’t, as you simplistically assume, automatically lead to a shortage of labour in their respective home countries. The idea is quite absurd.

      Freedom of movement wasn’t a policy that “allowed” anyone to leave anywhere. It’s a descriptive term used to define the movement of people and relations between states — it doesn’t necessarily require policy, politicians, or even agreement, since it was the natural state of affairs before governments started intruding in the area.

      You misunderstand the sequencing and fundamentals. Large numbers of immigrants flooding into a country doesn’t simply result in a labour surplus. It’s much more complicated than that. The evidence going back hundreds — if not thousands — of years suggests they stimulate the economy in a multitude of ways.

      I suggest you read books. You might start with Adam Smith’s ‘Wealth of Nations’ which gives the subject quite a lot of consideration (spoiler alert: he believed in the unrestricted free movement of people).

    148. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Sarah.

      Try this:-

      https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10158831759084983&set=pcb.10158831759164983

      If you get it, click the arrows at either side to see the second pic.

    149. Breeks says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      26 November, 2021 at 8:48 pm

      ….It’s in 11 parts, each part around a 5 minute read. I couldn’t put it down! I read it all in a wunner. The link will take you to Part 1 and there is a link to the next part on each page.
      Everybody Knows the War is Over. Everybody knows the Good Guys Lost – Part 1

      https://www.denisefindlay.org/post/everybody-knows-the-war-is-over-everybody-knows-the-good-guys-lost-part-1

      Really worth reading.

      I absolutely agree 100%.

      Between that, and the SSRG’s open letter, it seems very clear the wrong people had the Million Paper Push at the National.

      Speaking of which, where’s my copy? I’ve scarcely even heard mention of it.

    150. Dan says:

      @ BDtt

      Couldn’t get your FB link to open.
      This may help.

      https://twitter.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1464299280626327560

    151. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Dan.

      Brilliant! Thank you. I had pasted the link into Chrome (I use Safari for FB) and it displayed there. May have been a fluke.

      A lot of good points put forward in the tweets there. Childhood is being eradicated.

    152. Hatuey says:

      I’m quite shocked by what I read there, Dan. The Scottish Government is targeting primary school kids with this stuff? My God.

      On one side we see standards falling in schools and nobody doing a thing about it. On the other we’ve got this forensic interest in the sex lives of children and every effort made to involve themselves.

      Help us, Obi-Wings Kenobi, you’re our only hope…

    153. sarah says:

      @ BDTT, Dan and Hatuey: I think it is criminal for an official body to issue material like this to schoolchildren. If it was done on-line by a man it would be treated as grooming or some such.

      What on earth are SNP MSPs thinking to allow this kind of thing? They must be off their rockers. Who is the Minister for Children now? It used to be Maree Todd. Whoever it is they ought to be deluged with complaints but as usual this horror seems to be a secret. If I were editor of a paper I would be plastering it over my front page.

    154. Ruby says:

      Hatuey says:

      The evidence going back hundreds — if not thousands — of years suggests they stimulate the economy in a multitude of ways.

      Reply

      You seem to be suggesting it’s only immigrants that stimulate the economy and that people leaving the country has absolutely no effect on the economy.

    155. Ruby says:

      sarah says:
      If I were editor of a paper I would be plastering it over my front page.

      Reply

      The question is who would pay the editor of a newspaper to do this?

      As it stands they seem to be highly reliant on government funding as we do for the most part buy newspapers.

    156. Ruby says:

      Ooops

      As it stands they seem to be highly reliant on government funding as we do not for the most part buy newspapers.

    157. Ruby says:

      What does

      https://www.children1st.org.uk/ & other children’s charities

      have to say?

      Are they unable to do much due to reliance on government funding?

    158. James Che. says:

      From a different perspective,

      It has come to my attention that two new subjects that are and will be affecting the people of Scotland now, and in the very near future,

      1) is the new way that the supposedly Scottish nhs is bumping of the elderly, the weak, and the disabled,
      No help for terminally ill cancer patients, they are being left at home, with occasional visits from a nurse.
      Very little help with pain relief or chemotherapy.
      Other Patients are not receiving hip or knee operations that have been waiting for two years or more.
      And we know lots of people who are having water retention tablets being altered or withdrawn from patients that is detrimental and causing death.
      Here Local Doctors surgeries are closing down.

      Everyone’s should be questioning why our health and care services are collapsing at such a fast rate, that does not coincide with the amount of covid patients.

      My theory is to bring in private heath care as is done in America, whereby if you can afford to pay, you will have health.
      Every one of us should be wondering why our doctors are seeing patients as £ signs.

      2) During storm Arwen and the chaos and road closures Facebook was unindated locally with lots of NEW incomers not knowing alternative routes to their new houses, they were also making inquiries as to where their nearest shops or DIY stores were and how to contact local tradesmen for repairs after the storm.
      Where has this sudden surge of newcomers come from?

    159. Ruby says:

      https://twitter.com/macnahgalla/status/1464151023589773324

      I tried to find a link to the article

      ‘Outrage over explicit sex quiz given to pupils aged 14’

      without success.

      It seems to have disappeared!!!

    160. Hatuey says:

      “You seem to be suggesting it’s only immigrants that stimulate the economy and that people leaving the country has absolutely no effect on the economy.”

      No. I’m not. There’s an infinite number of ways of stimulating economies — smashing a window increases GDP (assuming you pay to get it fixed).

      And of course people leaving a country can have negative economic consequences. We are all familiar with “brain-drain” theory. I haven’t discussed that.

      The central point I’m making is that human beings have intrinsic economic value. I know you’ve been taught otherwise but it’s true and history demonstrates that. Not only should we open our borders and let them in, we should thank them for coming.

      The industrial revolution and consequential economic booms that took place throughout Europe in the 19th century, the rise of the US as a dominant economy, the post-war “miracle” in Germany, the staggering growth rates in China’s special economic zones, the industrial development of Glasgow and Scotland’s central belt, all of these examples and many more depended on an abundant supply of migrant labour (whether it involved people moving from one part of the country to another or across national borders).

      If Scotland ever gets independence, the first thing it should do is throw open its borders and let several million immigrants in. Within a matter of a few years, we’d be one of the most productive and dynamic countries on earth.

    161. Hatuey says:

      Sarah, complaining doesn’t work when the people you are complaining to are the same people you are complaining about…

      I’d be more interested to see exactly where this sort of stuff comes from. It’s quite a radical departure from long-established norms for kids to be exposed to stuff like this in primary schools.

      I can’t remember any manifesto telling me that they were going to educate primary school kids to adult standards on sex.

      I remember reading about the named guardian stuff and thinking it sounded a bit creepy. This stuff is way off the hinges.

      It feels like there’s some unseen and very determined force in the background that has an interest in the sexual behaviour of children. I’m not intentionally trying to make that sound sinister, for all I know that force is well-meaning, but there’s no way to express that without it sounding sinister.

      The sort of information they are gathering here could be very dangerous in the wrong hands. People have every right to be concerned about this and ask where it came from.

      I see West Lothian council has point-blank refused to take part.

    162. Ruby says:

      Hatuey says:
      I know you’ve been taught otherwise

      Reply

      More patronising comments!

      One thing I have been taught is to question bonkers comments made online.

      You appear to be totally bonkers!

      What’s the point in iScotland throwing open its borders to let several million immigrants in if there is no work for them to do, no housing, etc etc etc.

      Your idea that there should be absolutely no control of immigration is nuts!

      You seem to have been taught that immigration is the answer to everything & that immigrants have some magic powers.

      Personally I thought the ‘freedom of movement’ within the EU was pretty good.

    163. Republicofscotland says:

      Twice save in a VONC John Swinney will have the chutzpah to urge Scots to defend our Holyrood parliament’s power from being hollowed out by Westminster. Swinney will add that devolution is quietly being filleted by the Westminster administration at the SNP’s conference today.

      Of course its the SNP’s conference once again where ordinary members and those with a possible Plan B (including the SSRG’s excellent escape route)to get out of this union are completely ignored and sidelined by the hierarchy, as they tighten their grip with regards to rules and regulations and procedures within the party, to twist them to suit their agenda.

      Swinney is just grandstanding to the faithful, most of whom still haven’t got a clue as what’s really going on within the party, and independence doesn’t come into it at all.

      Swinney knows fine well that our best opportunity in recent years, Brexit, was the time to hold an indyref, but his boss Sturgeon decided to gallivant all over Scotland to try and save England from itself instead of saving Scots from the union.

      This weekend the SNP conference will just be soundbites and preaching to those who think Sturgeon can do no wrong, and independence will get mentioned multiple times to sate the acolytes. The SNP conference used to be a time for hope and possibilities on how to get Scotland out of this horrible union, now, it holds no hope, no possibilities, and no future for an indy Scotland.

    164. Republicofscotland says:

      Meanwhile Horsebox Mike, has a column in the Sturgeon fanzine today (independence is yet again on the frontpage strapline of the National) in which we who know what’s going on in the SNP, and comment on social media about it are described by Mike Russell as bitter.

      Also we’ve caused his colleagues untold distress by pointing out the truth of the matter, and what we know and comment about on social media needs to be called out, presumably by those who see no wrong going on within the indy movement.

      Russell goes on to further describe us as counter-productive, so its counter-productive to point out the truth now, and that by pointing out the serious machinations of the SNP we are gifting the opposition.

      Russell does try to justify the current SNP’s route to indy by saying that they are gradualists, and not only in politics for what they can get, Russell says he finds it offensive that folk would think SNP politicians are in politics to feather their own nests so to speak.

      Russell adds that the yes structure should all work together and have mutual respect for one and other. Russell should lead by example and have his boss stop decrying the Alba party, and he should also get his boss Sturgeon to tell SNP to stop attacking the likes of Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine, while he’s there he should have a word with his boss about the persecutions of real indy bloggers.

      Time to get your act together Mike for the sake of the country.

    165. Republicofscotland says:

      James Che @1.05pm.

      Point (1)

      James, the pandemic has given the Tory capitalists the solution to privatising the NHS especially in England, they’ll say that its understaffed and people will have to wait an unacceptable amount of time to be seen, and for folk with serious conditions this will be a life threatening problem.

      Of course the NHS has been underfunded for decades, and its far too top heavy with outrageous salaries for pen pushers. Chomsky said that if you want to get rid of public body, first you need to defund it, the public will cry out for something to replace it, that’s where the private sector comes in.

      Unfortunately for Scots, Scotland is still tied to this god awful union, and our NHS is funded via the Barnett Formula, any reduction in funding to the English NHS has a knock on effect for the SNHS.

      Add in that Johnson will undoubtably make some sort of trade deal with the USA, which will include all the UK’s NHS departments, and privatisation starts to look inevitable, unless folk stand up for it and fight to save it.

    166. Robert Graham says:

      Well fk me it appears the new version of the plague has made a appearance in the UK , Christ that was quick eh who would have predicted that little turn of events

      Oh it was predicted and predicted by Dr Bill Gates who was instrumental in introducing viruses to its windows operating system that has been given direct access to every windows user to the security services in the USA,

      A discussion on LBC about the plague took the usual direction , people who have fallen for the plague story cannot be reasoned with , it doesn’t matter how many times they are told even by the people who promote this serum

      Two very simple facts it won’t stop you contracting it and won’t stop you passing it on WHY PEOPLE CANNOT DIGEST THESE TWO SIMPLE FACTS is baffling

    167. Republicofscotland says:

      So Sturgeon when grilled by the wretch and BBC mouthpiece, Glen Campbell, says she wants to turn off North sea oil, not that she has a say in it as its not a devolved matter, Sturgeon wants to axe thousands of jobs, to presumably stroke her gigantic huge ego, which must’ve swollen to a horrendous size during COP26, especially when she received praise from foreign dignitaries.

      The leader of the Alba party Alex Salmond has said Sturgeon is making a huge blunder by opposing the Cambo field and North sea oil in general, especially when it will be an asset to an indy Scotland.

      The alternative would be to import oil from abroad, which would cost more and have a carbon footprint via its journey to the UK.

    168. Dan says:

      @ Robert Graham

      If covid strain variants follow Lancia car characteristics, I reckon I could outrun the Omnicron.
      The Delta, especially in S4 guise would be a different story.
      My old man had a Beta with the 2.0 twin cam and Weber twin choke carb. It was almost as quick in speed as it was in rusting / dissolving back into the respective elements on the periodic table from which it was made.
      There had been plans to make an automotive film called Vanishing Point 2 about Italian cars such as Fiat, Alfa Romeo, and Lancia. However, by the time a script was created, finding road worthy models that could be used in the film became so difficult the idea was scrapped, (like most of those cars).

    169. Alf Baird says:

      Hatuey at 1:27 pm

      “If Scotland ever gets independence, the first thing it should do is throw open its borders and let several million immigrants in.”

      Appen yer een! Scotland opened its borders in 1707 and all we got was clearances, plundered, inequality, ethnic discrimination, a Cultural Division of Labour, and ‘No’ voters. Its otherwise known as colonialism.

    170. Andy Ellis says:

      Alf Baird 5.36 pm

      “Its otherwise known as colonialism.”

      Perhaps to some it is, but I doubt the majority accept the “Scotland as colony” narrative, however hard you and others keep pedalling it Alf. Admittedly I haven’t seen any polling evidence: perhaps it’ something Rev Stu or James Kelly could ask about in the next round of polls they commission?

      I have my doubts that even if the polls showed the majority of Scots didn’t accept the proposition that Scotlands was/is colonised that the ” true believers” would accept it right enough, but it would be interesting to see what the popular view actually is.

      Doubtless those who are invested in the colonisation myth will just insist we aren’t listening hard enough. I’ve still to see any evidence however that any political party, significant national political figure or organisation, or even any significant percentage of the population (whether as a whole or just the pro-independence part) actually buys in to the colonisation argument.

      Of course, even if it is and remains a minority point of view, people are quite entitled to argue for it and insist it’s true. Whether it helps or hinders the case for independence – particularly amongst “soft No” voters – is another question.

    171. Dan says:

      FAO of all those Scottish re-wilding enthusiasts.

      Please dinnae be plantin yer planet saving trees along the roadside and near powerlines…
      It’s a pure baw / fanny ache for many when the roads are blocked and there’s nay “green” leccy reaching their hooses.

      Message sent from my low battery powered phone by candlelight…

    172. Ruby says:

      I got caught out again! I included the S word in my post.

      Ruby says:
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      27 November, 2021 at 6:28 pm
      Alf Baird says:
      27 November, 2021 at 5:36 pm
      Hatuey at 1:27 pm

      “If Scotland ever gets independence, the first thing it should do is throw open its borders and let several million immigrants in.”

      Appen yer een! Scotland opened its borders in 1707 and all we got was clearances, plundered, inequality, ethnic discrimination, a Cultural Division of Labour, and ‘No’ voters. Its otherwise known as colonialism.

      Reply

      Good post in response the Hautey’s bonkers comment.

      However I wish you hadn’t included the last line as you’ve set Andy Elis off again.

      I’m wondering if there is another word to describe the following:

      ‘the policy or practice of acquiring full or partial political control over another country, occupying it with ********, and exploiting it economically’

      Perhaps a new word is needed. Something trendy & short.

    173. Hatuey says:

      It’s unfortunate that Alf Baird refuses to engage in serious debate about immigration. The idea that opening borders and promoting free movement resulted in the Treaty of 1707 and the colonisation of Scotland is so inappropriate that I can’t even imagine how anybody might take it seriously.

      The fact is that Scotland was economically on its knees prior to 1707 and migration flows were in one distinct direction — outbound. The historical record suggest that the formation of the UK resulted in less people leaving Scotland, not more. Even in the 1850s when the highland clearances were at a peak, the Scottish population as a whole was growing, not declining.

      Today’s dogma doesn’t change yesterday’s facts.

    174. Dan says:

      @ Hatuey

      Re. Immigration / Emigration.
      There’s a bit more nuance to it though isn’t there. You can’t compare several hundred years ago with the current societal setup.
      Aye Scotland requires a degree of immigration for sustainability due to ageing demographics, but that isn’t going to work if it just a load of old retired buggers moving here that gave up working and shaggin a good while back, and require more intensive healthcare than younger fitter working procreaters we do actually need.

    175. Ruby says:

      I knew the 8 letter word starting with S triggered moderation but I forgot.

      I was too busy thinking what I would have for dinner.

      I had corned beef & cabbage last night for the 1st time since I was at school.

      It was absolutely delicious and I’m thinking of having it tonight again.

      ‘Is there that owre his French ragout,
      Or olio that wad staw a sow,
      Or fricassee wad mak her spew
      Wi’ perfect sconner,
      Looks down wi’ sneering, scornfu’ view
      On sic a dinner?’

    176. Dan says:

      Ruby says: at 6:54 pm

      I had corned beef & cabbage last night for the 1st time since I was at school.

      It was absolutely delicious and I’m thinking of having it tonight again.

      FFS Ruby, we’re just getting over excessive wind causing havoc across oor nation and we’re trying to save the planet through reducing our emissions, and you’re gonnae eat cabbage and corned beef two days in a row…

    177. wee monkey says:

      Does anyone know of where you can see the FULL Laura Kuensberg -Sturge interview?
      Seems it went that well bbc scotland had to edit all the snarly bits oot. I think it was a day or so before the all under one brolly jamboreee.

    178. Dan says:

      @ wee monkey

      Indycar Gordon posted this 26 min vid a few days ago.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGCv-h7QbBw

    179. Alf Baird says:

      Hatuey says:
      27 November, 2021 at 6:41 pm

      “formation of the UK resulted in less people leaving Scotland, not more”

      On the contrary, Scotland lost between 3 and 4 million of its people in under 200 years between the late 18th and mid 20th centuries, by proportion one of the largest losses of population of any Western European country. Over much the same period a significant meritocracy was brought into Scotland, mostly from England, reflecting a cultural division of labour. You may wish to read up on Scottish census/history.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/10/26/determinants-of-independence-demographics-2/?like_comment=20947

    180. Fireproofjim says:

      The Scottish curling teams have just won the European Championship. Men and women.
      Yet you will not likely hear about it despite them beating the best in Europe. Not even on BBC “Scotland”.
      I bet you would if they were English.

    181. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A surprisingly fair article from Alex Massie in The Spectator:-
      Is this the beginning of the end for Nicola Sturgeon?

      https://archive.md/Ok1RQ

    182. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      And by “fair” I mean fair and perceptive.

    183. Republicofscotland says:

      “It’s unfortunate that Alf Baird refuses to engage in serious debate about immigration.”

      Hatuey @6.41pm.

      Hatuey.

      Alf knows a fair bit about the subject and of Scotland’s predicament with regards to population within the union, his articles on Yours For Scotland are a MUST read.

    184. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Onnyhoo, it was nice to see Rev Stu nodding in the direction of early Fleetwood Mac, via Albatross’s B-side.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ0MNze6pgY

    185. Ruby says:

      Dan says:

      FFS Ruby, we’re just getting over excessive wind causing havoc across oor nation and we’re trying to save the planet through reducing our emissions, and you’re gonnae eat cabbage and corned beef two days in a row

      Reply

      I’ve already given up yoga to reduce emissions!

      The corned beef & cabbage is staying!

    186. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Can I just type that I have never “enjoyed” corned beef and cabbage.

      If corned beef was ever again to caress my palate, it would be by means of corned beef, baked beans and chips, possibly with a dollop of tomato ketchup.

      I’ve just binned a tin of corned beef that was dated ‘best before Aug 2011’. Never had a fancy for corned beef since I bought it.

    187. sarah says:

      @ BDTT, Ruby, Dan: Corned beef broken up, mixed with beaten egg, mixed spice and sultanas, then formed into a patty and fried, is the best way to “enjoy” corned beef, I find.

    188. robbo says:

      This will warm yer cockles on a winters night.

      The master of strings is fair pleased wae hisel right enough. Amazing guitarist. Well done that man. Girl was awright tae.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSR5ETrEmIU

    189. Hatuey says:

      I’ve just read one of them, RoS, the one he linked to above. Had he handed that in as an essay to me, I’d have asked him to stay behind after class and explain himself.

      There’s huge problems with what he suggests. For one, he doesn’t provide a source for the 4 million claim. That doesn’t surprise me since it’s hard to see how a country with a population of 1.5 million in 1800 could lose 4 million people, as he suggests, over 150 year period, and end up with 5 million in 1950.

      The rate of population growth over the period, steady and incremental, is broadly in line with the rates you’d find elsewhere in Europe. If you added the alleged 4 million on at the end of the period in 1950, Scotland’s rate of population growth would stand out as the highest.

      That’s all a nice way of saying I think it’s probably junk.

      But there’s an even bigger problem. How can Alf or anyone meaningfully distinguish between people brutally driven from their homes by the forces of English colonisation and people simply going to explore and find work in an empire that beckoned them and offered great opportunities, rewards, and riches? If you think it amounts to the same thing, you’re simply dead wrong, and it’s hugely significant.

      And more still. Alf talks about English people taking significant numbers of skilled jobs in Scotland throughout the period, again without providing a source;

      “Historic census data confirms that, over much of the same period, Scotland imported a significant element of its meritocracy and professional and managerial class from rest-UK, primarily England.”

      My god, I don’t know where to start. Even if that was true, it would mean exactly nothing. Anyone that knows this stuff knows that Scotland was exporting educated people all over Europe during the 17th century and right into the 18th century. The reasons for that are interesting but let me assure you they had nothing to do with English colonisation.

      Phrases like “a significant element” mean nothing, btw, and are considered red flags in serious circles — significant to who? You could argue that a single one person was “a significant element”.

      A significant element of the people in this room think Alf should provide sources.

    190. Dan says:

      Hatuey says: at 9:36 pm

      …The rate of population growth over the period, steady and incremental, is broadly in line with the rates you’d find elsewhere in Europe…

      Hmm, but not “broadly in line” with the rate of population growth with that of our near neighbour that we are supposedly in an equal Union with.
      This disparity of population growth should not have gone unaddressed as no constituent part of the UK should have an economic advantage over another.
      The Kingdom of England has grown its population over the course of this few hundred year Union from approximately 5 to 10 times that of the Kingdom of Scotland, with all the economic benefits doing so has given the KoE.

    191. Dan says:

      Big missed oppurchancity by all the important COP26 “planet saving” masif and she/her I’m a selfie girl in a selfie world…
      Tis the season for Scots to collectively reduce oor energy usage by simply turning aff yer fridge, because for the next few months you are actually putting stuff in that big white box to keep it warm…
      This point is backed up by scienz as this evening have been drinking vodka and coke with ice cubes made by leaving the ice cube tray dans le jardin.
      So beacoup eco bonus points pour moi. No doubt Greta would be allover this if she was old enough to tak a swally.

    192. Confused says:

      The Alex Massie article is not that bad, much of it is “fair enough”; man is still a cunt tho. I also feel he has been reading WOS at times, even BTL – the “Charlie Brown kicks the football held by Lucy” image first appeared here, some time ago. You can’t blame him I suppose – journos ripping off blogs, ripping off comments on blogs, hacks writing stories based on crap from their twitter feed … keeps costs down. I wonder what Massie pulls in for that gig, being mildly literate and punctuating properly? I bet he weote it on a MacBook Pro. Some day he will have enough for the down-payment on hair like Neil Oliver. He’s a fucking pseud as well – mentions “Potemkin”, but AFAIK he never even got on the bench for Scotland.

      While the Fleetwood Mac reference is a good find (B sides!), I think this is more on the mark

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeZRYhLDLeU

      (Johnny Cash, “Folsom Prison Blues”)

      aye, jigsaw (non) identification it’s not exactly

      .. I shot a man in reno ..
      just to watch him die

      But prison can do a lot of good for a man; crystallises the exact nature of a situation, starkly. The time can be spent well; I hope CM has been lifting a lot, while maintaining good form, and not missing out on “leg day”. Survival skills and physicality are good for the intellectual, while ordinary thugs should just read a lot, or learn to read, first-off.

      I assume when he gets out – he will be absolutely boiling with rage, and given how he has been spending months in his cell with nothing to do but think up things to do once he gets out – it could have a positive effect.

      – Lee Marvin as the relentless “Walker”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz1328EcZlQ

      while “anger is an energy”, it is hatred, (righteous, justified, focussed) hatred that is the tip of the spear; the indy movement needs more (of the right kind of) “hate”. Our corrupt establishment will assume CM has been “taught a lesson”, I hope they are wrong, walker-as-a-metaphor-ically-speaking.

      Ruthless pragmatism, is my kind of political philosophy; remember our own hero, The Bruce, once split a man with an axe, in a church, while under truce. Obstacle, No-Obstacle. Notably, in view of our current dissembling troll, this act was “denounced by the international community” of the time. So, fucking, what?! Scotland needs a “political decapitation” and in the modern age, “the axe” is information and the “assassin” is the whistleblower.

      – or we can just wait around like some tramps in a stupid play; I see the main thread is setup to become perhaps the least commented ever – and yet, every gaslighting windbag onanist who shoots hot air on The National should be taking up the bet. If they believe their own output, they should be in line to take the REV to the cleaners, and then to bankruptcy. (Don’t get high on your own supply, eh?)

    193. Alf Baird says:

      Hatuey at 9:36 pm

      “A significant element of the people in this room think Alf should provide sources.”

      You sound just like the pseudo-nationalist Dr. Ellis. So many colonialists disguised as nationalists these days, even in the SNP.

      As you are evidently too lazy to search for information, here is a source:

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotlands-Populations-1850s-Michael-Anderson/dp/0198805837

      “..the long-term impact of massive Scottish emigration, among the very highest in the whole of Europe…”

    194. Hatuey says:

      Dan, I’m sure I’m not the only one that’s bored with this subject, but I’m compelled to point out that what you’re arguing on Scottish population growth is at odds with reality.

      There’s no reason to assume that a country with a small population and significantly mountainous terrain would develop in the same way as a highly populated flat country.

      Like Alf you attribute the apparent discrepancy and relatively higher levels of outbound migration in Scotland to the evils of the Union. There’s a huge problem; historians call it the 17th century.

      Scotland was economically on its knees right through the 17th century. Many thousands of Scots went overseas looking for opportunity— 30 thousand alone went to Poland, more as mercenaries took part in wars on behalf of Sweden, the Netherlands, France, etc., etc., etc.

      Tom Devine covers all this stuff in detail.

      All of that happened before and, therefore, independently of the Union. The main reason Scotland has been historically poorer than England is simply down to geography; we have large areas of agriculturally useless land and are on the periphery of Europe.

      The period Alf wants to focus on is particularly problematic because most of Western Europe went through similar processes of urbanisation at the time. Urbanisation goes hand in hand with development — I can’t think of a country anywhere in the world that developed industrially without experiencing urbanisation. And it’s happening right now, in places like China and elsewhere.

      To be clear, though, I think Scotland’s relationship with England since 1707 can essentially be described in quasi colonial terms. It isn’t contradictory to suggest that Scotland in some ways also benefitted from that relationship in terms of economic development during certain periods.

      I’m sincerely sorry to tell you that history is quite complicated, with lots of variables and competing forces, and the good guys don’t always wear white hats. I wish it was otherwise.

    195. twathater says:

      @ Alf Baird 5.36pm and all my fellow nativists and blood and soil proponents , Alf I watched a programme on the scum channel bbc tonight by Simon Reeve touring the lake district , Simon interviewed an elderly female around her late sixties who has lived in her village all her life , she was outlining the FACT that the village consisted of 85% second home owners and holiday home rentals and the cheapest properties were selling for a minimum of £500,000 which the young locals obviously could not afford which was FORCING them to leave the village to look for housing

      Simon also interviewed her son in his late 40s I would guess , he was a builder and was happy to be getting all the work the new home owners were getting done , I wonder if he would feel as happy with the influx of outsiders if the new property owners were bringing in their own cheaper builders from outside the village maybe even somewhere like Poland for example those Poles whose reputation for quality and cheapness is well known and with open borders there would be ample cash in hand opportunities to avoid paying stupid taxes

      He also visited a holiday complex within the lake district which had a hotel and all types of amenities , similar to the Loch Lomond proposal by Flamingoland I presume , the average cost of a stay was in the region of £1,000 per week pure chicken feed for holiday home owners , the annoying thing for the management was that they were having to bus in employees from up to 100 miles away because there was no housing available for employees locally

    196. Robert Hughes says:

      Confused @ 12.03

      Public Image Ltd .( via William Blake )

      The explosive ” Point Blank ”

      The ManInBlack

      All * woven through * a blisteringly incisive/LOL post . Brilliant .

      Hatuey . Philosophically I ( more or less ) agree with your take on immigration .

      For it to work though , for it NOT to cause massive socio/political unrest and further erosion of what ( in our case ) it means to be Scottish there would have to be a world with no borders , a world with no wars , no conflicts , no elites exploiting and fomenting divisions and the traffic would have be in all directions , not just , as is mainly the case in these times South to North and East to West : we’re a million miles away from that world .

      Great posts also by Dan , Alf and Twathater among others

    197. Breeks says:

      Brexit Winter Journal Day 2.

      Still no power. 3 inches of snow has fallen. Provisions which seemed plentiful two days ago now look meagre… The batteries in everything are dying, and the paraffin lasts longer if I only use one lamp. I will soon have to venture outside and attempt to make contact. The daylight won’t last more than 7 or 8 hours… but first I need to light a fire and eat something…

    198. Robert Hughes says:

      Breeks the Revenant : please don’t tell us….

      ” I’m just going outside now – I may be some time “

    199. Breeks says:

      Lol…

      The Scottish translation…

      Fk me! It’s Baltic! And the power’s out. Ah’ll hae to go tae the shops.

      Lol.

    200. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 1.04 am

      There you go applying logic to the situation again: it’ll never catch on you know, it just renders you a “pseudo-nationalist” apparently. The nativists don’t do nuance or complexity. Their brigadoon circle jerking only has room for the “we wuz robbed by the dirty furriners” narrative, however much they try and sugar the pill of their profoundly regressive, socially conservative nativism.

      They undermine their own case (not that any of them have the self awareness to recognise it, still less admit to it) with their own words. Yes, Scotland did lose huge amounts of people, but so did many other countries. Yes, we do have an issue with access to affordable housing in rural areas (and indeed in cities like mine), but the example used was….? That’s right….the ENGLISH Lake District. Such problems aren’t unique to Scotland of course.

      The Scottish government could – within the economic and political constraints it is forced to accept under the devolutionary settlement – have acted to at least alleviate these issues in Scotland, but has chosen not to do so. Interesting too that the sneering is about the fact that the hotel featured in Simon Reeves programme charged £1000 a week. So what? It’s the market rate: there are plenty of places in Scotland and everywhere else charging the same or higher rates. If we want vibrant local communities there are ways of doing it: few such problems are insoluble, whether it’s by building more affordable housing that can’t be sold on, or raising local revenue through taxing visitors and the companies providing services to them. The principle is the same whether you’re in the Lake District, the Western Isles, the Lofoten islands in Norway or rural Italy.

      The tendency of nativists to hark back 300 years and concentrate on the chip on one shoulder about Treaties of Union is only surpassed by the chip on their other shoulder about non-native born Scots being “swamped”, their penchant for cultural nationalism, and the “Scotland as colony” narrative that they simply can’t accept has negligible popular support, quite apart from being electoral poison.

      Prancing around frantically on the head of the nativist pin arguing the toss about whether and to what extent non-native Scots “cost” us independence won’t get us a scintilla closer to our joint goal. We can’t even convince enough of the crushing majority of native born Scots to support their own self determination. Far easier of course to abuse those pointing out their deeply regressive world view and other them as pseudo-nationalists, Sturgeonites, MI5 operatives, clost britnats etc. If it weren’t so predictable it would be amusing.

      These people’s views are poison to most ordinary Scots I know: they’re destined to remain a small, generally abusive and frequently sweary minority on the fringes of the movement. The question is more how many potential voters they drive away than how many they persuade.

    201. robertknight says:

      In all the chat about physical and social geography and economics to explain Scotland’s historical issues, (some of which continue to this day), let us not forget who was running the show.

      The landed gentry/aristocracy was only ever interested in its status, its bank balance, and sucking up to whoever was further up the food chain than they were – all the way up to the Monarch of the day. (Who, since 1603, was often content to screw over their Scottish subjects in favour of their English equivalents – witness William II/III when it came to overseas ventures).

      As is now, Scotland’s woes were often the result of the ruling classes looking out for their own interests at the expense of all others. Today we have the SNP’s ‘benchwarmers’ at Westminster and ‘chair-plugs’ at Holyrood. In 1707 we had those parliamentarians who voted to accept the articles of Union. In 1291/2/6 you had the signatories to the Ragman Rolls. Every individual who held the title “Lord High Commissioner to the Parliament of Scotland” and then “Secretary of State for Scotland” knew exactly whose interests they were in post to serve.

      We have been continuously at risk of being sold down the river by fellow Scots – eloquently summed up as follows:

      Farewell to all our Scottish fame
      Farewell our ancient glory
      Farewell even to our Scottish name
      Sae fam’d in martial story
      Now Sark runs over the Solway sands
      And Tweed runs to the ocean
      To mark where England’s province stands:
      Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

      What force or gile could not subdue
      Through many warlike ages
      Is wrought now by a coward few
      For hireling ("Tractor" - Ed)’s wages
      The English steel we could disdain
      Secure in valour’s station
      But English gold has been our bane:
      Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

      I would, or I had seen the day
      That treason thus could sell us
      My auld gray head had lain in clay
      Wi’ Bruce and loyal Wallace!
      But pith and power, till my last hour
      I’ll make this declaration
      We were bought and sold for English gold:
      Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

      The only thing wrong with the above is a single word in the second last line… it should read:

      “We are bought and sold for English gold:
      Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!”

      As we know, the problem persists..

    202. Andy Ellis says:

      @Alf Baird 12.49 am

      It doesn’t take a pseudo-nationalist (what is one of those by the way…is it just nativist shorthand for someone who doesn’t accept your worldview?) to point out that the facts and figures laid out in the one source you link to (a snip at £100 on Amazon….!) don’t necessarily support the “Scotland as colony” narrative. As that and other sources note other countries actually had larger amounts/proportions leave, but that doesn’t mean they were colonies.

      You’re still coming up short providing any evidence of widespread support for your views amongst “ordinary” voters, political parties or notable figures in the movement I see. One might almost think it’s because there isn’t any. Perhaps you could as Rev. Stu to ask some questions about it in future polling?

      Of course, I’m no longer in the SNP, so I can’t talk for them: I’m one of those pseudo-nationalists that’s a founder member of Alba. I think my disguise might have slipped though. So far they don’t seem to have noticed. Fingers crossed, eh?

      Wait a minute though…..perhaps it’s just that the party leadership (and hopefully membership…though the jury is still out on that one) has more sense than to embrace blood and soil ethnic nationalism?

      I certainly hope so if they have any plans to have mass appeal.

    203. Dan says:

      Hatuey says: at 1:04 am

      The point I was making is that over the course of the Union, Westminster has implemented little if any political policies to stimulate Scottish population growth so it would get back on track with England’s growth rate.

      All that infrastructure built in England to house and service their growing population created jobs and a living for folk there.
      Meanwhile we got the likes of the clearances and a ruined shipbuilding industry.
      We dinnae even make Hillman Imp anymore! The Imp Mk5 could have been a wonderous eco vehicle powered by a hybrid engine. I say hybrid engine because solely leccy ain’t the answer as I’m guessing Breeks’ would be sitting uncharged at this point.
      A not dissimilar situation with my Mum who recently did away with oil heating. The house has a nice solar panel setup but with no sun and the long power cut she’s had to leave the house as it was freezing.
      I didn’t quite get the backup wood burning stove install completed during a recent visit because the flue needed some bespoke parts made that I could only fabricate with tools back at my own place.

    204. Republicofscotland says:

      BBC mouthpiece Martin Geissler, catches out Ian (Scotland won’t stand for it) Blackford on the Sunday Show, Geissler says to Blackford what preparations have you done for an indyref, and Blackford says we needs to deal with the virus first.

      Geissler then says but there’s elections being held all over the world right now. Geissler then adds that organising an indyref isn’t even in the the coming year of SNP business. Blackford then prattles on about the will of the people.

    205. Republicofscotland says:

      Its a sad day for the indy movement when even die-hard unionist Sir John Curtice, thinks that Sturgeon will need to get her skates on pronto, if there’s to be an indyref. Meanwhile veteran indy minded folk attack Swinney’s pathetic conference speech.

      https://archive.md/CfLWJ

    206. Republicofscotland says:

      “So many colonialists disguised as nationalists these days, even in the SNP”

      Indeed Alf, and they come across as so concerned about the indy cause, of course they have a wee bit of knowledge and are often card waving paid up members, but their objectives are unmistakable.

    207. robertknight says:

      Will the penny finally drop with those myopic SNP members that the party of Independence has no plans for, and no interest in, Independence?

      We live in hope…

    208. Breeks says:

      robertknight says:
      28 November, 2021 at 11:08 am
      Will the penny finally drop with those myopic SNP members that the party of Independence has no plans for, and no interest in, Independence?

      We live in hope…

      If they can force themselves to sit still and read through Denise Finlay’s 11 sequential articles on the state of Sturgeon’s SNP, and STILL refuse to see what sitting right in front of them, then Hell mend them.

      For someone who is so passionate about Independence, it must have been difficult for Denise to write so dispassionately about the utter mess Sturgeon has presided over.

      https://www.denisefindlay.org/post/everybody-knows-the-war-is-over-everybody-knows-the-good-guys-lost-part-1

      When you take it all in, and try to see the whole big picture, I find it nearly impossible to reconcile these events with ANY faulty or failed Independence strategy. These past seven years have witnessed the deliberate and wilful wrecking of the SNP and the running aground of Scotland’s Independence aspirations. Accidental or incompetence, it is not.

      There is subversion and sabotage in every direction, with the footprints invariably heading to and from SNP HQ. The only reluctant reference to Independence we see is an occasional carrot or token sticking plaster by some useful idiot who’s drank too much of the Koolaid.

      The hope was that Scotland’s society would “morph” into an Independent Scottish Society with all it’s societal institutions intact, but that seems to be a diminishing possibility. The Legal Fraternity, the Civil Service, the “Media”, all seem as guilty and complicit in Sturgeon’s “game” as it is possible for them to be.

      If feel increasingly that Scotland’s societal structures are rotten, compromised, and Unionist, and if they cannot be trusted, then Scottish Independence might rest upon these institutions being toppled.

      Please understand that ISN’T a call for insurrection and open rebellion, but Scottish Independence will be championed by the likes of ALBA and those who are outside the Establishment positions and authority.

      Maybe what ALBA can hopefully do with a Grand Constitutional Committee to undermine Sturgeon’s fake charlatan Independentists, can be replicated with a similar process whereby Scots Law, and it’s apparent prejudice against supporters of Scottish Independence is somehow hauled out of the shadows and exposed for all to see.

      Scotland needs a Government loyal to Scotland, but it also needs a Judiciary, Civil Service, news media, and Police Service which fully understands it exists to serve the sovereign people of Scotland. I’m not even sure that neutrality is an acceptable option. Not when it comes down to existential matters of Constitution.

      The Union was a Union of Constitutional Equals, but after 300 years, Scotland might still be the Constitutional Equal of England, but our actual Government, our Parliament, our Legal Fraternity, Civil Service and Security Institutions are anything but the equal to their UK equivalents.

      Scotland’s Constitutional Integrity remains, ultimately, – Scotland IS a sovereign Nation, but Scotland’s Constitutional musculature and nerve system has been unused for so long, a great deal of it has atrophied to a mere vestige of what it once was… if indeed it still exists at all.

      We NEED a government that is Constitutionally savvy. We NEED Constitutional Legal Council which is not compromised by Unionism. We NEED to shadow every Institution the Union has, with an equivalent utility which argues Scotland’s case in all situations and circumstances.

      Frankly, I don’t see Holyrood stepping up to do that, and after Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Mark Hirst, Manny Singh, etc… I’m not at all sure I trust Scotland’s Legal Profession either. I certainly don’t trust the position of Lord Advocate to taking the Constitutional initiative on Scotland’s behalf.

      Why, in God’s name, after 314 years has it fallen to academics and laypeople in the Scottish Sovereignty Research Group to articulate Scotland’s Constitutional Integrity? Strikes me that’s a pretty shameful indictment of the Scottish Lord Advocate’s position that spans over 3 damning centuries. I see plenty “lording” it, but not much constitutional advocacy going on.

    209. Alf Baird says:

      Republicofscotland @ 10:56 am

      “their objectives are unmistakable”

      Aye RoS, thon fowk staun oot lik a sair thoum, juist lik aw thay SNP Heid Bummers an thair mankit deceiverie.

    210. Alf Baird says:

      Breeks @ 12:40 pm

      “When you take it all in, and try to see the whole big picture”

      Yes Breeks, Denise Findlay’s 10-parter on the recent and ongoing political shenanigans is excellent and a must read.

      However, lest we forget, there is also a 10-parter providing the only theoretical framework thus far on Scotland’s socio-political predicament within the UK ‘union’.

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2021/08/29/scotland-in-the-21st-century-10/

      It is important for a people to understand the different ways in which they are oppressed (‘Doun-Hauden’), which are many and varied and often obscured (e.g. by ‘institutions’) in the colonial situation, which enables them ‘to see the whole big picture’.

    211. James Che. says:

      Why import immigration to Scotland when there is no reality rise in employment , businesses, housing, without decent heating alternatives for heating houses or running transport under the green climate change mantras, council services are being reduced for a higher price or without a functioning nhs, while education has taken the wrong nose dive,

      Well perhaps immigration pays, as does those invested with covid vaccines and contracts.

      The one thing that overrides all the wrongs of sorting out society problems in Scotland is if you have your fingers in the honey barrel,

      That you are financially invested in cheap control for labour, while extorting taxes and health insurances, while shoving people into bad housing as was in the earlier centuries.
      Where people did not have a human face or human rights.

      I could see why the wealthy want to change society for the worse in Scotland and the rest consider immigration of Britain a good thing.

      Lower the standards , lower the bar, keep people in poor housing, poor health, poor human work conditions. Confused and In fear, governments taking control and the reset button back to the 17 and 1600s as a disposable work force with no rights and breeding humans just enough to have a replaceable slave.
      Human Resources ring a bell.

    212. Hatuey says:

      Well, getting back to my original point about migration, it’s not often I give praise to the media in the UK but I thought it was decent of them to publish the face and details of one of those who recently died trying to cross the channel.

      Those of you who want to block freedom of movement should cut that picture out and hang it on your kitchen wall. Like the thousands of others that died trying to get into Europe and the UK, all she wanted was the chance to work and make a reasonably pleasant life for herself.

      That all said, we need to look at the underlying causes of all this. Why do people leave their homelands and risk their lives like that? I wish the MSM was more honest about that.

      It’s an embarrassingly stark fact that most of the migrants are coming from countries that British and US foreign policy destroyed. That includes the obvious places that we bombed into the stone-age like Iraq but it also includes less obvious ones that we pump arms into and manipulate.

      We don’t really have an immigration problem; we have a murderous foreign policy problem in disguise.

    213. James Che. says:

      Ahhh, the higher echelons can’t wait to “build back better” for they were at the top of their game way back then.

      Human Resources deguise the word slavery.

      Wonder why the aborigines in Australia are being incarcerated, and why blm are destroying the rights of black people?
      or why women’s rights are being taken away under the transgender rights?
      Wonder why governments are encouraging separation of generations and age discrimination is on the rise in Britain?
      Wonder why people have no legal rights or access to law?
      Wonder why everything that was good that helped all society, is now being demolished to build back better, for whom are we talking about in reality?

    214. James Che. says:

      Hatuey.

      The answer is simple.
      If Britain and America stopped bombing their countries or trying to invest in armoury to install their own regime change to suit their purses, and power most people would bee much more content to sort out their own countries.

      But no we have to do Russia and China yet.

      As Henry Kissinger’s said first we have to go into and change the eastern countries and then into Russia and China,
      Instigate Appropriate propaganda first to make people believe through government MSM,
      As Tony Blair did,
      And we are all set for new wars, bobs your uncle.

      The long term plan that Kissinger mentioned in his interview will be achieved.
      It has all been planned years ahead.

    215. James Che. says:

      Hatuey.

      I wonder why the main stream media have not shown their decency in publishing photographs of the thousands of people whom died in care homes?

      I wonder why the mainstream media have not published the thousands of British people who died because they closed hospitals?

      Perhaps we can let those people slip into oblivion, because they do not have propaganda appeal and do not serve the government or MSM purpose.

    216. Republicofscotland says:

      “Well, getting back to my original point about migration, it’s not often I give praise to the media in the UK but I thought it was decent of them to publish the face and details of one of those who recently died trying to cross the channel.”

      Hatuey @1.48pm.

      Interesting view point, however do you actually believe that the media, owned by predominately rich Tories, and US conglomerates, gives a toss about refugees or immigrants welfare?

      I for one do not, the media are using the issue at hand, to force the French and the English to stop squabbling, and sort it out, to prevent more refugees/immigrants from landing on the South East coastline of England, where the majority of residents are wealthy and vote Tory.

    217. Alf Baird says:

      Hatuey @ 1:48 pm

      “getting back to my original point about migration”

      You might wish to read up on colonialism and how it ‘works’; this would be a good start:
      http://historyofcuba.com/history/oriente/hatuey.htm

    218. Hatuey says:

      Nice of you to acknowledge my pedigree, Alf, in your own cantankerous way. The legendary Hatuey deserves more recognition.

      RoS: “do you actually believe that the media, owned by predominately rich Tories, and US conglomerates, gives a toss about refugees or immigrants welfare?”

      I don’t really understand the question, but they published her face on their websites and papers. They didn’t need to do that and I’m glad that they did. Maybe if they did it more often, people would wake up to the human tragedies that result from government policies and stop thoughtlessly supporting them.

    219. Andy Ellis says:

      It was hard enough to take the “Scotland as colony” schtick seriously when it was wrapped up in false equivalences with instances of colonisation in relatively recent history, so perhaps we shouldn’t be too surprised that the proponents are now reduced to comparisons with 16th century Cuba.

      I wonder what victims of real colonisation and oppression make of the special pleading of a people whose are only required to put an “X” in a ballot to win their independence? I imagine a lot of them probably think it’s pretty pathetic and not a little insulting. I know quite a few Irish people: not a single one accepts that Scotland was or is a colony.

      The UN isn’t buying the colonisation narrative, and neither is anyone else of note. What are you going to concentrate on when you finally realise that?

    220. Tannadice Boy says:

      Checking up on the latest posts. Just when I thought the insight and the intellectual debate was improving along comes Colonialism again. Here is my defence against that argument. I walked down to the ballot box on September 2014 with my family. No military presence, no police presence, no barriers at all. And we voted for Independence. We felt great on returning home, thinking we had won. We didn’t and we have never analysed why?. Colonialism didn’t stop the Scottish people from voting Independence. It was the Scottish people that decided that. People that advocate armed insurrection are the same people that greet when the expresso doesn’t arrive on time. Don’t buy this argument folks.

    221. Ruby says:

      FAO Andy Ellis

      OK so you don’t accept Scotland as colony.

      How would you describe Scotland’s place in the Union?

    222. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      I wonder what victims of real colonisation and oppression make of the special pleading of a people whose are only required to put an “X” in a ballot to win their independence?

      Reply

      Before they can put an “X” in a ballot to win their independence they have to get permission to have a ballot.

    223. Alf Baird says:

      Tannadice Boy @ 4:13 pm

      “Colonialism didn’t stop the Scottish people from voting Independence. It was the Scottish people that decided that.”

      Yes, to a large extent it was, but have you never heard of the ‘colonial mindset’? Colonialism, aside from economic plunder, ‘is a disease of the mind’ in which ‘the characterization and role of the colonized… is one in which the colonized gives his troubled and partial consent’. (Albert Memmi)

    224. Dan says:

      Yawn at the binary opposition positions taken re. colonisation.
      Aye, we’re no being beaten up in the streets (yet). And we’ll jist overlook the attempts to and jailing of those significant threats to the staus quo.
      But is nobody capable of seeing through the insidious nature of influencing oor society through the external control of broadcasting, “newspaper” content, and voting systems etc.
      All those fuckin Union flags plastered all over stuff in the shops. Telly full o’ “Britain’s Got …(insert topic not of yer choice”, “Great British wank off over whatever current inane latest topic the public has been dumbed / numbed down to pay the license to watch”.
      Aye, jist ignore all that, clearly it has no effect on oor people…

    225. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 4.23 pm

      I’d describe it as what the majority of Scots are still – sadly – convinced is less risky than the alternative risks of independence, which can be achieved by the simple expedient of putting a cross on a ballot paper either in a referendum or plebiscitary election.

      Nobody is stopping us.

      We’re not colonised.

      We’re not hoodwinked by the MSM or stopped by the Scottish legal system or police.

      We don’t have to wait for some external deus ex machina, cunning plan or extra parliamentary route.

      As Tannadice Boy notes above, we had the opportunity for several hours on 18/09/2014 to change history and bottled it.

    226. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Alf Baird 4:29pm
      I see we have moved from Fanon to Memmi. But if we are to take up armed insurrection then you should be the first. Surely you will practice what you preach?. I know a guy who knows a guy that can get you a 7.62 armalite. I don’t fancy your chances. To me your are a discredited academic and are preaching to our young people a false narrative. An agent provocateur.

    227. Dan says:

      There’s been some weather. Where’s Captn Yossa with an update on how yon school’s doing.

    228. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      28 November, 2021 at 4:38 pm
      @Ruby 4.23 pm

      I’d describe it as what the majority of Scots are still – sadly – convinced is less risky than the alternative risks of independence, which can be achieved by the simple expedient of putting a cross on a ballot paper either in a referendum or plebiscitary election.

      Nobody is stopping us.

      Reply

      You are totally bonkers and so is Hautey!

      PS Where do I go to put my cross on the ballot paper?

      Are you describing Scotland in the Union as a being safe & the best possible option?

    229. Robert Graham says:

      Question for all you intelligent people regarding the new flavour of the plague .

      HOW DID IT GET HERE SO SOON , if only vaccinated people are allowed to fly ?

    230. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 4.28 pm

      Neither you nor anyone else actually knows that yet though do they? Chiefly because the Scottish Government has failed to put the matter beyond legal doubt these lat seven years and – even worse – actively tried to hinder Martin Keatings attempt to clarify the position in the courts.

      As has frequently been stated in the past, if the legal decision goes against the Yes side, i.e. the courts hold that holding a referendum is outwith the competence of the devolved Holyrood parliament, then at least we know, and can abandon that route as a bad lot and consider the alternative such as plebiscitary elections, as many of us have been urging since way before the last election.

      We don’t need permission for self determination, nor is the sovereignty of the Scottish people up for debate, but we can’t unilaterally dictate the terms of an independence referendum and expect it to be risk free either. 2014 provides a precedent, but there’s nothing to compel Westminster to abide by it.

      If they won’t, we need a Plan B. It’s not rocket science, except apparently if you’re an SNP loyalist or one of those diverted by the assurances of the “cunning plan” brigade that independence will just happen without a referendum or plebiscitary elections because *reasons*.

    231. Ruby says:

      FAO Tannadice Boy

      You don’t accept Scotland as a colony.

      How would you describe Scotland’s place in the Union?

    232. Hatuey says:

      On “the new flavour of the plague”, it’s going to be a couple of weeks before we know understand the implications. We can only hope the mutations helps mitigate against the vaccines…

    233. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Ruby 4:56pm
      The Scottish people decided to remain part of the Union ask them. I voted for Independence.

    234. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 4.46 pm

      I can’t decide if you’re just not very bright, or just the kind of person who could start an argument if you were the only person in the room.

      1) “Where do I go to put my cross on the ballot paper?”

      To the polling place when #indyref2 happens. Before the end on 2023 if we’re to believe the SNP. Alternatively in your ballot paper for a Holyrood or Westminster General Election which the movement has managed to declare plebiscitary. There you go: sorted. Make it so!

      2) “Are you describing Scotland in the Union as a being safe & the best possible option?”

      No, that’s just some bullshit you made up in a fairly laughable attempt to discredit what I was saying. Having already been labelled a pseudo-nationalist by the charming Alf Baird, nothing much would surprise me now. I regard the union as unsafe, illiberal and very much the worst option for the Scottish people. It’s not me that we have to convince though Ruby, it’s the >50% who still insist on supporting the No side.

      Sadly, I doubt describing Scotland as a colony, or fantasising about how many of them we can disenfranchise is going to result in a convincing Yes majority any time soon, whichever route we eventually use to exercise our self determination.

      In future, we’d all get along better if you and the nativist claque in here interacted with what I actually write, not with stuff you make up or what the voices in their heads tell them to regurgitate. ‘K?

    235. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      28 November, 2021 at 4:53 pm
      @Ruby 4.28 pm

      Neither you nor anyone else actually knows that yet though do they?

      Reply

      You are bonkers and you keep saying all we have to do is put a cross in the ballot box.

      We can’t put a cross on the ****** ballot box if our colonial masters keep denying us a ballot!

      If they didn’t do this Sturgeon wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. Absolutely no excuse to delay.

      I believe we are just a colony Holyrood & sending MPs to Westminster is all just a con to make us believe we aren’t.

    236. Dan says:

      Covid Scotland: Omicron variant may lead to further travel restrictions, Nicola Sturgeon warns

      https://archive.md/JhuTY

      Probably best jist stick the turkey in the oven asap and hae crimbo noo. Especially if your power has been aff and the freezer’s melting.
      We dinnae want the health service overrun with covid and salmonella.

      My neighbour recently had covid, track and trace was so “on it” they didn’t even bother to check the rest of their household. One of which went in tae hospital for surgery whilst the other had covid.

    237. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 5.05 pm

      Your inchoate shrieking that we’re just a colony doesn’t make it factual. Those you term our colonial masters “granted” a vote in 2014 as part of a negotiated deal. They’re on record as saying that they may do so at some point in the future, but – absent some legal decision compelling them to do so – they’re under no obligation to do it at a time or frequency of our choice. Our feckless government could have rectified that long since of course, but have signally failed to do so.

      Their reasons are their own, but little better can be expected of the current SNP, so I wouldn’t be holding my breath for #indyref2 anytime in the next decade unless the courts make a surprising decision that it is entirely a matter for Holyrood. Recent history and legal decisions in the Supreme Court don’t fill me with hope that the Scottish Government would win even if it suddenly grew some bollocks and brought a case.

      A cross in the box at the next Holyrood or Westminster General Election is just as feasible, and likely to happen a hell of a lot sooner than #indyref2 will ever be arranged, so I don’t really see your problem? All we have to do is ensure a majority in favour of treating such elections as plebiscitary, particularly if/when the britnats refuse to co-operate on the terms for a second indyref, or in the event that route is closed legally. Again, none of this is rocket science, you’re just placing your faith in snake oil salesmen who assure you there’s a short cut.

      There just isn’t.

      Your beliefs about Scottish Westminster MPs being a con and about our purported colonial status, however sincerely held, are neither here nor there because you’re part of a small fringe with negligible popular support.

    238. Dan says:

      Omicron was a Lancia bus, handy it finally rockin up at this time for she / her of twa yellow buses fame…

      https://twitter.com/AlbaCentralScot/status/1465000999358283783

    239. Republicofscotland says:

      “Nicola Sturgeon warns Omicron variant may delay second independence referendum”

      I think we all knew this was coming, there’s no mention of preparation for a indyref in the SNP’s next year of business, regardless of where we are, or will be, with the virus.

      Still I’m sure the Sturgeonistas on PayPal Paul’s site aka WGD will still believe a indyref is on the way.

      https://archive.md/i7BJH

    240. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      Your beliefs about Scottish Westminster MPs being a con and about our purported colonial status, however sincerely held, are neither here nor there because you’re part of a small fringe with negligible popular support.

      Reply

      Just goes to show the con is working!

    241. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 5.36 am

      Ah yes the refrain of unreasoning losers everywhere: “Of course, we were right, they just weren’t listening hard enough”.

    242. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      28 November, 2021 at 5:42 pm
      @Ruby 5.36 am

      Ah yes the refrain of unreasoning losers everywhere: “Of course, we were right, they just weren’t listening hard enough”

      Reply

      There are many examples of loser being right!

    243. Ebok says:

      We have heard many suggestions on how to take the independence campaign forward, (or more correctly back on track), most of which have involved some sort of change within SNP.
      That is the only hope in the short term because, as I’ve said previously, one of the big problems is the ‘Indy brand’ which in the minds of the public, is firmly associated with SNP. I’ve also pointed out that, excluding an implausible overnight ‘Road to Damascus’ type of switch from SNP to ALBA, at some point support for these parties could cancel each other out and allow the unionists to sweep both aside.

      The question of how to influence change from within is clearly only possible if initiated by current MSP’s. One good sign is that it does appear Sturgeon’s leadership is being more closely questioned from a variety of sources and cracks do seem to be showing. She herself recognised her vulnerability when hooking up with the Greens, but she is still fragile, and if as few as 8 of her MSP’s rebel, SNP are back in minority government territory – she would then be dependent on unionist support.

      Now, I admit that I’m fairly clueless about the machinations within political corridors, but it must be possible that there are SOME at HR who, like JC, have remained in the party and for reasons yet to be explained, have not rebelled. Who are the MSP’s that really do want Independence? Where are the weak spots? Those connected, or well informed, like Iain Lawson, and insiders who have defected to ALBA, should be able to identify these weak spots. Can they use whatever persuasive means are available to organise a covert group from within, ready to strike at the right moment.
      If that could be put together, then even MSM would be unable to help our Nic.

      Politicians should also be constantly reminded that they are expected to act with honesty, integrity, responsibility, and compassion, that WE know, that they know, the contempt with which all high ranking politicians treat the public, they are all aware that trust in those who have more recently, in the case of SNP, infested the corridors of power is at an historic low, and FOR SURE they are aware that those who lie, cheat, and participate in sleaze and corruption while in public office do so in the knowledge that they are unlikely to be held accountable and punished. This cannot be allowed to continue.

      Any MSP with an ounce of credibility should be asking ‘where is this leading to’ when over that past couple of days we learn of schools questionnaires about sex for children, backed by SNP and Green (no surprise there) and looking further afield, any MSP with an ounce of humanity should be asking ‘what have we become’ when reading the horrific account of children murdering a child in a city centre, and when scores of men, women, and children drown off our coast and the response from politicians is to squabble over a twitter message?

      Our MSP’s must be reminded that they have the power, given to them by the electorate of Scotland, to put the brakes on a seemingly unstoppable downward spiral and to look at the quality, or more accurately the lack of quality, in the leaders we have? They need to ask themselves ‘how many times was the barrel scraped to get this low?’

      Meanwhile, we must continue to believe that the predominant Scottish psyche can rise above this rotten cluster masquerading as politicians, otherwise there is no point to anything.

    244. Ruby says:

      I still believe the losers of the 2014 IndyRef were right!

    245. Ruby says:

      I still believe the losers in the Holyrood election were right.

    246. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Dan 5:10pm
      I just took a call from a friend in Aberdeenshire. Their power has been off since the start of Arwen. The temp in the house is 5c. They are wearing their hats and coats. They live in a modern house and village. Resilience not built into these houses. Aye the auld coal fire, the paraffin lamps, the candles and the beddies. Modern life you don’t have any responsibility for your own life or health Nicola will fix it. She will dawn her cape. I hope your power restores soon and you can entertain wingers with your humour. Stay safe.

    247. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 5.53 pm

      Obviously it’s context dependant. I believe the losers in 2014 were right too. I also believe the losers in the brexit referendum were right.

      The losers – as I see them – of the “Scotland is a colony” narrative will however remain eternally wrong, just as the losers of the “the victory of proletariat is inevitable” were wrong, or George W. Bush was wrong when he stood in front of a banner saying “Mission Accomplished” was wrong, or the folk strutting around the White House in January insisting “Trump was robbed and is still President” were wrong.

      Happy to help!

    248. John Main says:

      I see the ‘C’ word, colonialism, is rearing its head again.

      For those who don’t know, colonialism is when substantial numbers of people leave the country of their birth to go and live and work in a different country. The primary reason they make this move is to enrich and improve their own lives, but to be fair, a minority do sometimes persuade themselves that they are driven by altruism. Usually, there is a religious justification for that – the inhabitants of the new country are deemed to be in need of enlightenment.

      Once in that country, colonists inevitably, because it’s just human nature, change the character, ethos, culture, laws, etc. of their adopted home. It’s easier for them to do that than it is for them to change themselves. Human nature again. Besides, if you believe you have a mandate to enlighten the backwards, why would you rate the world view of those you have colonised?

      Is this ringing any bells to anybody who may have stravaiged their local High Street this century?

      IMO, one of the more clever cons of modern times is to persuade most people that colonialism is something that only happens in history books.

      I exempt Hatuey from that last statement. Hatuey can’t wait to complete the re-colonisation of Scotland on the grounds it will be good for the economy. Who knows? Maybes it will, although you have to be prepared to discount the many historical examples of peoples and nations who violently rate self-determination above GDP.

      And then there’s the other awkward fact about colonialism. The colonists tend to keep the goodies arising from colonialism to themselves. TBH, who can blame them. As already stated, they mostly do not up sticks and move to a new country for charitable reasons.

    249. John Main says:

      @Robert Graham

      “How did it get here so soon if only vaccinated people are allowed to fly?”

      Beats me. But haud oan.

      What you are implying is that the only way to get here is by air, and the only way to get here by air is legally, you know, registered, passport-checked, vaccinated, vaccine-passport checked, and that all of these processes are foolproof and water-tight and they are all policed by never-sleeping paragons of incorruptible rectitude and professionalism.

      I think I see the flaw in your logic.

    250. Andy Ellis says:

      @ebok 5.47 pm

      “….but she is still fragile, and if as few as 8 of her MSP’s rebel, SNP are back in minority government territory – she would then be dependent on unionist support.”

      I doubt the MSPs concerned have the cojones to be honest. When Neale Hanvey came to talk at our Alba constituency meeting recently someone asked from the floor how the good folk he said were still in their SNP Westminster and Holyrood seats could bear to stay while he had left, all he could reply was that they must have stronger stomachs than him, and that it was a personal decision for him that he could no longer stay with a good conscience.

      I think we’re deluding ourselves if we think that the “good guys” left in the SNP have any real chance of turning the party around. The multi-part analysis from Denise Finlay the other day and Robin McAlpine’s piece on the destruction of democracy within the SNP show that the SNP is a lost cause. It can’t be reformed in any meaningful sense, it has to be faced down. Even if the “good guys” manage to boot Sturgeon and her TRA acolytes out, would you really still trust those that are left?

      Those with principles and a backbone know what they have to do. The fact so few have done so tells us everything we need to know. What we have to wait for is the point where the scales fall from the eyes of SNP loyalists – or at least those giving them the benefit of the doubt – when #indyref2 doesn’t happen, when the consequences of GRA reform become apparent, and when they see they’ve been taken for a ride. That may take some time, but when it happens Alba has to be ready to pick up the pieces and say:

      “We warned you: now, about that plebiscitary election….”

    251. Republicofscotland says:

      Tomorrow Barbados will dump the royal parasite queen Lizzie as head of state and become a republic, the head parasites eldest son Prince Charles, will be in attendance for the ceremony, though many do not want him there, and who could blame them.

    252. Republicofscotland says:

      The machinations within the SNP laid bare.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/11/28/an-exceptional-article/

    253. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      28 November, 2021 at 6:14 pm
      @Ruby 5.53 pm

      Obviously it’s context dependant. I believe the losers in 2014 were right too. I also believe the losers in the brexit referendum were right.

      Happy to help!

      Reply

      No you’re alright pal.

      I can do with the help of someone who claims things are ‘right’ just because he says so.

    254. Ebok says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      28 November, 2021 at 6:43 pm
      ‘I think we’re deluding ourselves if we think that the “good guys” left in the SNP have any real chance of turning the party around’

      That’s not what I’m suggesting: if, and it IS a big if, there are any principled people left, then they must find each other and form a ‘rebel’ group from within, not to reform the party, but to derail it and stop the insane policies and directives coming from the oppressive control driven queen of the selfies, prancing around in designer outfits while many of her subjects live in abject poverty.

      IF they – the assumed rebel group – withdraw support for scotgov, then without the unionists SNP will be unable to pass controversial bills, and ultimately may be forced into an early election? There is no need to attempt reform of SNP or demand a change of leader.

      The other main point I was trying to address, is that due to the nature of our electoral system, falling support for SNP, even if their lost votes all move to ALBA, it does not mean that a lost SNP seat goes to ALBA (unless it was a truly massive swing), it in fact goes to Lab or Con.
      As support for both parties come closer together, then BOTH SNP and ALBA lose, and unionists win.

    255. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Andy Ellis 6:43pm
      The scales will never fall off. Loyalty and belief are prized. Where have we heard that before?. Your synopsis of elected SNP members is accurate. What they don’t realise is after the discontinuity of the inevitable Sturgeon demise, do they expect to walk about their community without ridicule?. Labour took the country for a ride for 50 years. The SNP have reduced our public services to rubble in a lot less time. I can’t see a way forward to betterment for the people, perhaps Alba we will see. I am afraid to say it’s a depressing outlook.

    256. Ruby says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      28 November, 2021 at 5:02 pm
      @Ruby 4:56pm
      The Scottish people decided to remain part of the Union ask them. I voted for Independence.

      Reply

      Yeah! I got that!

    257. Ruby says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      28 November, 2021 at 5:02 pm
      @Ruby 4:56pm
      The Scottish people decided to remain part of the Union ask them. I voted for Independence.

      Reply

      Yeah! I got that!

      Does that mean the majority like the idea or being a colony or whatever name you would use to describe Scotland in Union?

      What would you call a country where the neighbouring country makes all the major decisions.

      Ooops I think part of my post posted early.

    258. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      28 November, 2021 at 5:05 pm
      @Ruby 4.46 pm

      I can’t decide if you’re just not very bright, or just the kind of person who could start an argument if you were the only person in the room.

      Reply

      Angry Andy does not like to be contradicted so resorts to abuse!

    259. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ebok 7.56 pm

      1) “..they must find each other and form a ‘rebel’ group from within, not to reform the party, but to derail it.”

      I don’t see that happening. Either folk leave and join other parties / give up altogether, or they stay. If they stay they may or may not be successful in changing the SNPs direction and policies, but the SNP as a party is irredeemably damages in the eyes of too many in the independence movement now. We’ll never trust them again even if the worst of the gradualists, TRA extremists and Sturgeonite ultras are somehow overthrown. They’re our equivalent of the Irish Nationalist Party: with luck, they’ll end up in the same historical dustbin.

      2) “….falling support for SNP, even if their lost votes all move to ALBA, it does not mean that a lost SNP seat goes to ALBA (unless it was a truly massive swing),”

      Not necessarily. Alba needs to gain enough of the SNPs support – or indeed other support – to hold the balance of power. It’s not realistic in the short to medium term to expect them to replace or supplant the SNP in toto. They can’t risk relying on a unionist party to prop them up and I doubt Scottish Labour or LDs have the political appetite for it either.

    260. Hatuey says:

      I just watched the Marr interview. The little unlikely genius who reads books always seems to be angry and tired these days. Anyway, apparently there’s some sort of global pandemic going on, interfering with every fabric of her being and preventing her from realising all her dreams.

      It’s a fucker when global pandemics get in the way of plans like that, to be fair. Today I was supposed to devote several hours to DIY type stuff, I’d been planning it for weeks, then news broke about the new variant… my wife and I are gutted but health comes first.

      Loads of people dying as they wait for ambulances?

      “Pandemic!”

      Not enough hospital beds?

      “Pandemic!”

      Independence?

      “Global pandemic!”

      Pandemic?

      “Pandemic!”

      Marr must surely have went back down to London confident that Scotland and this United Kingdom were in the safest of hands…

    261. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 8.29

      “Angry Andy does not like to be contradicted so resorts to abuse!”

      Ruby: 5.05 pm : ” You are bonkers and you keep saying all we have to do is put a cross in the ballot box.”

      Ruby: 4.46 pm : “You are totally bonkers and so is Hautey!”

      How’s that glass house? Care for any more stones?

    262. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      28 November, 2021 at 8:45 pm
      @Ruby 8.29

      “Angry Andy does not like to be contradicted so resorts to abuse!”

      Ruby: 5.05 pm : ” You are bonkers and you keep saying all we have to do is put a cross in the ballot box.”

      Ruby: 4.46 pm : “You are totally bonkers and so is Hautey!”

      How’s that glass house? Care for any more stones?

      Reply

      That is not abuse. These are facts and you will find that the majority agree with me.

      How do I know the majority agree with me?

      In the same way as you know about majority views.

    263. Dan says:

      So looking ahead to when covid has used up all the Greek alphabet letters…
      I’m hoping those in charge of virus nomenclature stick with the Lancia automotive theme.
      I eagerly await the return of the Volkswagen Variant, particularity the Fast and Squarebacks strains as the Notchback shape doesn’t really float my boat.
      They were well cool when de-trimmed and painted in a pastel colour and rolling on a set of Empi 5 or 8 spokes.
      #CalLookFTW

    264. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Hatuey 8:42pm
      Marr?. A failed public schoolboy. A former Dundee High School pupil. He left after a year or so, he was bullied apparently. I think he progressed onto St Leonards. A communist/ a follower of Trotsky whatever. We remember things in Dundee. We remember Churchill but I wouldn’t put Marr in that category. He wants his own voice, great as long as I am not paying for it.

    265. Ebok says:

      @ Andy Ellis
      (falling support for SNP, even if their lost votes all move to ALBA, it does not mean that a lost SNP seat goes to ALBA (unless it was a truly massive swing)
      You said: ‘Not necessarily.’

      Sorry Andy, simple arithmetic will show you are mistaken.
      Taking the returns from the 2019 GE, if ALBA took 10,000 votes from SNP in each constituency, then SNP would drop from 48 to 16 MPs. ALBA would return 2. It would be a unionist landslide.

      Worse still, if SNP’s vote was halved, with the lost half going to ALBA, then SNP would send10 MPs to WM, ALBA 0.

      That shows the task ahead of us, which is a tragedy for Indy: for ALBA to rise and SNP to fall, UNLESS there is, as I put it earlier, a Road to Damascus thunderbolt, then at some point support for each of the two will equalise and should that occur around the time of any election, then unionists will simply hoover up an awful lot of seats.
      I desperately want to see Independence and decency at the core of Scottish politics, but I cannot see this happening short or medium term unless there is rebellion within SNP.
      I don’t care if they have been nodding donkeys in the past, I don’t care how they voted yesterday, I don’t care if they attended church today, I don’t care which football team they support, but I do care how they’ll vote in future. The alternative doesn’t bear thinking about, we simply must get out of this cesspit.

    266. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Ebok 10:32pm
      Great post, I like the predictive assumptions you used. 10k lost SNPs votes. Yes, exactly what we need although I would prefer the predictative assumption of 20k lost SNP votes to save Independence. Think that can’t happen I refer you to the feeble 50. Nothing is impossible in politics. We need to vote the SNP out it is that simple. They think they are invincible so did Labour.

    267. Hatuey says:

      I have no particular issue with Marr, Tannadice. If he wasn’t there, someone else just like him would be. I actually think it’s fun to watch Sturgeon cowering in front of him. She talks really fast when people stand up to her, eh…

      I see you have engaged with Ebok on the prospects of facilitating change.

      Sturgeon will tumble when someone close to her turns against her. That’s how most of them go. She won’t see it coming. It’s hard to imagine someone isn’t thinking of making a move now or in the near future.

      The trigger is her falling popularity; at some point she becomes a political liability that poses a risk to the seats and jobs of her colleagues. The general public increasingly sees right through her now, so it’s just a matter of time.

      When it happens everybody will turn against her, including her friends at BBC Scotland who will be keen to make sure the right sort of person replaces her. Opportunities will probably arise for us, depending on who makes the challenge, but we should be alert to the potential for false prophets and false promises.

      The thing about Sturgeon that nobody seems to notice is that she doesn’t really have any sort of natural base of support — you might say the transgender community is her support base but what does that amount to, a few hundred votes?

      It’s quite an unusual situation that, when you think about it. Most leaders have factional support on the left or right or something, but Sturgeon doesn’t. Salmond had and still has a natural support base and they have stood by him. I don’t see anything resembling that.

      The success she has had in elections might have created the impression of a support base but we all know that it can really be put down to exploiting the pro-indy vote and there was never any real love in that relationship; support for Sturgeon was always based on the desire for independence, not any real desire for her. I suspect she always knew that herself.

    268. Breeks says:

      Ebok says:
      28 November, 2021 at 10:32 pm

      …..That shows the task ahead of us, which is a tragedy for Indy: for ALBA to rise and SNP to fall, UNLESS there is, as I put it earlier, a Road to Damascus thunderbolt, then at some point support for each of the two will equalise and should that occur around the time of any election, then unionists will simply hoover up an awful lot of seats…

      If Scotland stands in defence of it’s sovereign Constitution, the popular sovereignty of the people, then Holyrood and it’s craven fealty to Westminster becomes meaningless.

      The 1998 Scotland Act, with it’s weasel words and Section 30 colonial insurrection, is nothing more than the small ‘c’ constitution of a devolved assembly which is NOT sovereign in our Country. The colonial Scotland Act is NOT the Constitution of the Scottish Nation. Holyrood is a monumental red herring. It is a charlatan institution, masquerading as a government while taking it’s orders from Westminster.

      The fate of our nation will not be determined by a Vichy Scottish “Parliament” which sets itself higher than the Scottish people yet beneath Westminster, regardless whether Gauleiter Sturgeon sees fit to overrule the will of the sovereign people.

      The rogues we have in Holyrood, and it seems all but a few in Westminster too, are every inch the same corrupt and weak minded wretches as those who betrayed Scotland in 1707.

      Let me quote from the SSRG’s open letter… ”It is the informed view of the SSRG that there is nothing in the UK unwritten constitution that prevents a majority of Scottish MPs, representing the Scottish party to the Treaty of Union, to collectively vote to withdraw from it. This would mean that if 30 of the 59 Scottish MPs voted to withdraw, the Treaty of Union would be annulled.”

      We do not need Holyrood, whether it’s full of SNP charlatans or Unionist flunkies. Impeach the damned place that struts around like a government but is nothing more than Holyrood’s Parish Council.

      I’m not even convinced we need 30 of our Westminster MPs withdrawing from the Treaty, because a breached Treaty of Union is just as dead as an annulled Treaty, and it seems to me a determined Constitutional Lawyer, just one in number, is more than adequate to secure that conclusion to the Union after Scotland’s grossly unconstitutional subjugation through Brexit.

    269. Alf Baird says:

      Tannadice Boy at 4:41 pm

      A deeper level of understanding is needed on why some Scots vote against independence.

      Established theory relating to psychological conditions such as the ‘Scottish Cultural Cringe’, ‘Colonial mentality’, ‘Appropriated Racial Oppression’, and ‘Internalised Racism’ each help to explain why an oppressed people may not consider themselves to be oppressed, and hence opt to vote against their own liberation from oppression:

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/08/15/determinants-of-independence-ethnicity/comment-page-1/

    270. Breeks says:


      Alf Baird says:
      28 November, 2021 at 1:13 pm

      Breeks @ 12:40 pm

      “When you take it all in, and try to see the whole big picture”

      Yes Breeks, Denise Findlay’s 10-parter on the recent and ongoing political shenanigans is excellent and a must read.

      However, lest we forget, there is also a 10-parter providing the only theoretical framework thus far on Scotland’s socio-political predicament within the UK ‘union’.

      Simple game of equivalences…

      If MI5 possessed a factual dossier of such treachery, betrayal, incompetence, innuendo and conspiracy, but where it was Boris Johnson selling out the interests of Britain rather than Sturgeon wrecking those of Scotland, do you think Boris Johnson would still be UK Prime Minister with free reign to govern?

    271. paul says:

      Breeks,

      If MI5 possessed a factual dossier of such treachery, betrayal, incompetence, innuendo and conspiracy, but where it was Boris Johnson selling out the interests of Britain rather than Sturgeon wrecking those of Scotland, do you think Boris Johnson would still be UK Prime Minister with free reign to govern?

      No doubt they do and he still has free reign, after all, what else do they have to sell out but their population?

    272. Hatuey says:

      “Established theory relating to psychological conditions such as the ‘Scottish Cultural Cringe’, ‘Colonial mentality’, ‘Appropriated Racial Oppression’, and ‘Internalised Racism’ each help to explain why an oppressed people may not consider themselves to be oppressed…”

      Thank God we have Marxists cadres on hand to tell us what we really think.

    273. Ruby says:

      I find it hard to understand why any independence supporter could become so incensed about ‘Scotland in Union’ being described as a colony.

      What exactly is ‘Scotland in the Union’
      (I am referring to the country not Pamela’s organisation for English multi-millionaire landowners & folk like Neil Oliver)

      Did Scotland cease to exist in 1707 and therefore cannot be described as a colony but just a region of the country called the UK?

      Why on earth would describing ‘Scotland in Union’ as a colony dissuade ‘soft Nos’ from voting for Scotland to be an independent country?

      What’s worse describing Scotland as a colony or claiming Scotland ceased to exist in 1707 and became lesser England?

      The only way to justify Scotland being taken out of the EU for example is to claim Scotland ceased to exist in 1707.

    274. Ruby says:

      The only way to justify Scotland being taken out of the EU for example is to claim Scotland ceased to exist in 1707 or that Scotland is a colony or something very similar.

    275. Breeks says:


      Ruby says:
      29 November, 2021 at 10:30 am

      I find it hard to understand why any independence supporter could become so incensed about ‘Scotland in Union’ being described as a colony.

      It’s the distinction Ruby.

      Scotland is not a colony, so should never, ever acquiesce to being described as one. England and Scotland entered the Treaty of Union as Constitutional equals.

      Scotland does however suffer creeping colonialism from Westminster rule, whenever Westminster encroaches over Scotland’s Constitutional rights.

      Colonialism is the process. A colony is the defeated and subjugated victim, which has either conceded defeat or been forced to.

    276. James Che. says:

      Tannadice boy.

      May I suggest a history lesson in a fun way on that big C word,
      When you say the Scots were not forced or colonised or an Army set upon them I thought you were joking,
      Or that you had not had history lessons in your school.

      You only have to asked why General Wade was building roads and bridges in Scotland in 1724?

      Perhaps the fact that Scots rebelled and said No to the treaty of the union but were forced back by an English army, does not count either.?

      Scots have been suppressed, colonialism has taken place, and armies set upon the Scots for not wanting to join the treaty of the union,

      Perhaps for those that do not know the true beginnings of the Black Watch and how they were tricked by England. Might not consider that enslavement of Scots.

      May I suggest actually watching the other side of the facts in history, the Scottish side, not the propaganda side.not the one that we are forced to learn in schools.

      So for a fun way to learn the other and perhaps true side of Scottish history may I recommend Bruce Fummey, Scotland’s history tours.
      You surely cannot be offended by the colour of his skin while supplying a Scottish history lesson with dates and facts from history.

      You will find him on you tube and he has good professional visual recordings and actually visits the sites.

      I will be interested to know wether you wanted to learn ? why Scots consider they have been colonised by force in the past.

    277. Alf Baird says:

      Breeks @ 11:10 am
      Ruby @ 10:30 am

      “It’s the distinction Ruby”

      Constitutionally it may be argued Scotland is not a colony, Breeks; however, politically and in all practical senses Ruby seems correct. Most nations seeking independence have ‘decolonised’.

      Because of the socio-political reality Colonialism is Determinant number 4 in my book ‘Doun Hauden etc.’:

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/18/determinants-of-independence-colonialism/comment-page-1/

    278. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Breeks at 11:10 am.

      You typed,
      Scotland is not a colony, so should never, ever acquiesce to being described as one. England and Scotland entered the Treaty of Union as Constitutional equals.

      I suppose it would be more accurate to type that Westminster treats Scotland as if it were a colony.

      I can’t offer an opinion on whether bringing that treatment to the attention of more Scots would be good or bad for the pro-indy cause.

    279. James Che. says:

      Breeks,

      I have a tendency to disagree that Scots were not forced by an English Army into suppression,
      That Scotland became enslaved to a treaty they did not agree too then or afterwards,
      If we entered into it voluntarily, why was an English army sent and needed to force Scots into suppression and subdication?

      And why do we need permission now to leave a voluntary union when it has been reneged on by the other party to the treaty.
      That is colonialism in of itself.

      No wonder they want to change the British word “colonialism ” in the library’s and dictionary.

      However I do not contend that colonialism should remain in the Scots people psychologically.
      It is time they got up of of their knees, and set the record straight by ending the enforced treaty of the union.

    280. Alf Baird says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 12:01 pm

      “I can’t offer an opinion on whether bringing that treatment to the attention of more Scots would be good or bad for the pro-indy cause.”

      This is a good question, Brian, which ALBA and others are still pondering the political implications of; however, it could be argued that a people must first understand the nature of their oppression if they are ever to escape from it.

    281. James Che. says:

      The treaty of the union was not a voluntary union, it was according to history facts an English army enforced treaty.

      That by no means could be construed as voluntary.
      For those that did sign up, were on England’s payroll, paid and bought for by England’s purse. Not by an agreement of Scottish population or votes..

      And the question cannot follow to be logical in 2014, “Do you want to remain”? in the treaty,
      When we were not asked if “Do you want to join” ? the treaty of the union

      That question has not been asked in Scotland yet.

    282. robertknight says:

      For centuries, the Scots have acted as mercenaries and taken up arms at the behest of governments who were prepared to pay for their services in conducting military campaigns.

      This practice was not confined to foreign shores…

      Plenty in 18th century Scotland regarded the British Government in London as foreign, whilst simultaneously regarding the Highlands as a foreign land; with a language, culture and religion as alien to any lowland Scot as Flanders or Holland would have seemed at that time.

      British monarchs and governments have always been quick to exploit “Our Fighting Jocks” who don’t care whose side they’re on, just so long as they get paid.

      If any future Indyref showed a majority for Yes and the UK Govt. instructed the SCOTS to take to the streets of Edinburgh or Glasgow to clear Indy supporters who, in the face of London’s refusal to recognise the result, had gotten too much for plod to handle and had ignored calls to disperse, does anyone honestly think there’d be a mutiny?

      Didn’t think so…

      Guns for hire then – guns for hire now.

    283. Alf Baird says:

      James Che. @ 12:06 pm

      “However I do not contend that colonialism should remain in the Scots people psychologically.”

      Yes, you are right to highlight the psychological effects and change necessary James, and in that regard independence is the only remedy for a people to cast off a ‘colonial mindset’, for colonialism is also ‘a disease of the mind’.

      The clue as to who conspired and arguably still conspires against the Scottish people is written in the treaty itself, in its articles stating protections for the continued status and privileges of the elites in law, church, universities, and the burghs/gentry/lairds. These Scots elites serve(d) the same purpose as caids, chiefs and witchdoctors in hundreds of other colonial projects, for:

      “how is colonialism ‘enabled’ other than via: The docility of….Scotland was achieved by the co-option of regional elites….a precursor of Lord Lugard’s famed colonial policy of ‘indirect rule”. (Professor Michael Hechter)

    284. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Change of topic…

      Wildcats.

      Quotes from the link below:-

      “29 Nov 2021 —

      Hi All
      This is a very important time for us all. Today we will be lodging our written submissions for the public Inquiry about the windfarm, due to take place in late February 2022. This submission will form the basis of our objections.

      As we have informed you, it was crucial to our preparations that we received access to the Confidential annexes held by Vattenfall, the company who are solely owned by the Swedish government, who are putting forward the windfarm proposal.

      We had tried to get the information for 18 months and they only released it to us after they were forced to and they did so at the 11th hour. This was clearly because they knew how damaging the data held within these annexes would be and it was a delaying tactic, to hinder our preparations for this case. Well we have worked tirelessly since receiving these annexes and have put together what we believe to be an extremely compelling case for the wildcat, that is founded in empirical data, scientific references, and case law.”
      and
      “The key point to make here is that Vattenfall, who claim to be a ‘green’ organisation, submitted their application with the full knowledge of the Scottish wildcat population they would be damaging. Indeed, they tried to conceal this information. The Forestry Commission Scotland, now called (FLS), who own the Clashindarroch and are actually partners on the government’s so called ‘Saving Wildcats’ project, also had full access to this data and were happy to allow wildcat territories on their land be clear felled. The government organisation called ‘Saving wildcats’ (don’t worry the irony of this name hasn’t escaped us), have received millions of pounds in taxpayers’ money and their remit is to apparently save the wildcats. Unbelievably, they actually collected the data held in the annexes, yet they stand by and not only refuse to object to this development, but they have been used as a cover for it, up until now.”

      https://tinyurl.com/4javhyu5

    285. Confused says:

      wildcats need to embrace the vibrant diversity of the “new wildcats”

      – no more of this blood and soil, indigenous, nativist, species-ism

      ONE SPECIES – “ANIMALS”

      and they should all get postal votes

      some wildcats may identify with the “new wildcats” and thus not realise they are oppressively colonised

      I haven’t mentioned “trans-wildcats” but … they are probably oppressed or something and should have a pride march

      ordinary cats want reparations – “cat lives matter” – for their historic oppression as domestic pets

    286. James Che. says:

      Alf Baird,

      “ Indirect Rule” = Scottish Devolved Government.
      Lord Lugards still rules apparently. And in the mindset of Westminster through a devolved government.

      The sad thing is today the bbc are supposedly quoting NS as putting of any independence vote off now the new covid variant has approached Britain’s great shores.
      Easy done I d say with so many untested illegal migrants crossing the channel, whose first contact is RNLI, and British beaches.

      We have to end the falsified supposedly voluntary union by simply not continuing to follow the dictates of colonialism.
      I cannot foresee any relinquishing of Scotland by NS, the Scottish branch government , by Westminster, or by America. They all travel in the same train and arrive at the same beneficial station.

      It dawns on some that to break the Scottish colonialism mindset, we have to break old patterns of being on our knees, waiting for permission.

      Politicians and political parties are holding us where we are, keeping the status quo, no one else, stuck in limbo listening to propaganda from MSM voices scaring the sh-t out of Scots. Waiting, waiting.

      A good proportion of Scots showed up for marches over the years.
      Perhaps a good portion of the population might show up to discuss and vote on the right to self determination, and arrange a vote for a people’s parliament under the Claim of right, to choose a new government.
      This colonial subjicated demoralised Scottish mindset must change, and if it does not,
      Then every one in Scotland should go buy some knee pads to stop the pain of crawling on their knees.

    287. Breeks says:

      This discussion about whether Scotland is or isn’t a colony is just part of the process of enlightenment which the whole country should have gone through back in 2013/14 in my opinion.

      Even before Sturgeon took over, Scotland was either desperately naive and Constitutionally illiterate, or took an unfathomable decision not to weaponise Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and the technical aspects of what the Treaty of Union actually was.

      We put all of our eggs in the democratic basket, and pretty well abandoned Scotland’s Constitutional principles.

      I’m not gonna labour the point, nor blame Alex Salmond. I think Alex Salmond was shooting from the hip, and moving much too fast to get bogged down in Constitutional arguments… but I don’t think he had a choice, he had to, just to keep Westminster on the back foot.

      It’s not so much he used the element of surprise against Westminster, but a wee bit (dare I say it?) Blitzkreigy… You move so fast around static defences so the enemy is in chaos, can’t react properly and has to improvise.

      I don’t think that strategy will work twice. It might have, if a referendum was held in 2016-17 as a spontaneous reaction to Brexit, but after 7 years of Sturgeon’s feckless, plodding gradualism, if Sturgeon does go down the Holyrood Referendum route, it’s gonna be a massacre, a stroll through a carefully prepared minefield and kill zone… Talk about telegraphing your punches, Sturgeon’s gonna ask permission first before throwing them.

      Alf Baird gets it. The Scottish Sovereignty Research Group gets it. Craig Murray gets it. Barrheadboy gets it. I’m pretty sure Alex Salmond gets it, and ALBA gets it too…

      The essential difference between IndyRef 1 and IndyRef2, is that the IndyRef2 campaign will be an awful lot shorter, an awful lot sharper, and be led by Constitutional principles and arguments over which there isn’t a debate, rather than the endless ill-informed inconsequential “debates” of 2014.

      A woolly and ambiguous interpretation of Sovereignty won’t be waved like an inducement to undecided voters, as it was in 2014. (Remember Jim Sillars saying Scotland was sovereign for the day?) This time around, we need to be much more surefooted and Constitutionally savvy so that Scotland’s Sovereignty and Constitutional Rights are asserted in no uncertain terms.

      There must be nothing left of Westmister’s Colonial beachhead in Holyrood, with nothing left of it’s Section 30 encroachment and usurpation of Scotland’s popular sovereignty. The only sovereign people in Scotland are the Scots.

      Both Westminster and Holyrood must be left in no doubt whatsoever that their will is inferior to the will of the Sovereign Scottish people.

      The Treaty of Union has been breached, obdurate fact, and whether the Union survives that breach intact or whether the Treaty of Union is at an end, will be a matter for Scotland to decide… unilaterally if needs be, as is Scotland’s sovereign prerogative.

      The question on people’s lips should be whether that decision is arrived at as the conclusion of Scotland’s sovereign democracy, Scotland’s sovereign Constitution, Scots Law, or International Law as determined by the UN.

      I say all four; Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is asserted, the legitimacy of such action is subsequently affirmed by Scots Law, Scotland’s Sovereign integrity is recognised Internationally, and Scotland’s Constitutionally sovereign action is ratified by plebiscite.

      The Treaty of Union will be stone dead. Not killed off by any act of Scottish democracy, but by Westminster’s brazen, unconstitutional and irremediable breach of it’s Articles.

    288. Hatuey says:

      Our First Minister who reads books is back on our screens urging us all to comply with enhanced covid measures and apparently she has sent a letter to Boris asking him to strengthen quarantine rules for people entering the UK.

      The tone, the language, the measures, they all rest on trust and an assumption that Sturgeon cares deeply and is up to the job.

      There’s a problem though.

      How can we trust someone that signed up to ‘herd immunity’?

      How can we trust someone who covered-up the outbreak at the Nike conference?

      How can we trust someone that sent all those pensioners into care homes when they were known to be carrying the virus?

      All of the above are accepted as pivotal errors of judgement, by everybody, that probably cost lives. Covid deaths in the U.K. and Scotland are shamefully high by international comparison.

      You can’t claim “honest mistake” after you get caught covering things up. That’s not honest.

    289. James Che. says:

      Sorry to be so blatantly forward in this comment,
      But if the rest of Scotland and its people do not stop crawling on their knees to a disingenuous pirate Treaty.

      Then ole Blighty might as well kick their as….while they are down at foot level.

      Whipping up scorn for the Scots to further enslavement for another 300 years. Rape their country and ruin their children’s future.

      Treaty of the 1707 union = False, masquerading, disingenuous, pretend, disguise, no agreement giving, tacit agreement.

      I offer no apology to those that wish to see Scotland as a country disappear and be subsumed by England’s laws that take over their own land and sea by Lord lugards methods

    290. Republicofscotland says:

      Jeez oh, SNP MP’s are to bring forward a motion of no confidence in Boris Johnson, talk about the tail wagging the dog, Blackford and Co are at Westminster to give it it an air of democratic respectability and nothing else.

      The SNP MP’s are now so embedded in the HoC, that they see the HoC as a democratic chamber, the charlatans led by Blackford should be causing mayhem and trying to find ways to egress from England parliament, not dig in deeper. I fear Blackford and his band of MP’s will need to be dragged kicking and screaming from the HoC, as for Pete Wishart, he’d dong anything to remain at Westminster, and probably has already.

    291. Breeks says:

      https://twitter.com/Scotpol1314/status/1465315658141519877

      Excellent question from Barrheadboy…

      Omicron COVID might delay a Referendum says Sturgeon, but no mention of it delaying next years Council Elections. Funny that eh?

    292. Republicofscotland says:

      The SNP finger pointing yet again on pensioner poverty and the removal of the Triple Lock, a Tory manifesto commitment.

      Almost every single day the SNP under Sturgeon the Betrayers tenure finger point on the corruptness, or the machinations of this Tory government, yet what has she done since the Brexit vote to get Scotland out of this rancid union, nothing, nil, nada.

      We are not one step forward in obtaining Scottish independence since 2014, and that’s no accident, for the status quo suits Sturgeon, her party are in power the Scottish electorate are still voting for her party, and she has dodged the bullet on several seedy plots with the help of the COPFS, and she has the option to finger point at Westminster when things don’t quite go to plan, why on Earth would she endanger this by holding an indyref, and possibly obtaining independence.

      Scottish independence is the last thing on the agenda, its not even in the SNP’s business for next year. No Sturgeon has a plethora of things to implement in her own agenda, and going by her actions at the COP26, she craves attention and praise from those that hold a similar position to her.

    293. Robert Hughes says:

      As some have been saying for 18 months or so this Covid perforated umbrella is complete godsend for all manner of fckn liars , opportunists and out n out rank bad yins and it should come as zero surprise Nurse Ratched-

    294. James says:

      tobertknight: “Plenty in 18th century Scotland regarded the British Government in London as foreign, whilst simultaneously regarding the Highlands as a foreign land; with a language, culture and religion as alien to any lowland Scot as Flanders or Holland would have seemed at that time.”

      Robert can I just put my tuppence worth in? Flanders and The Netherlands were not alien at all to Scots; we had centuries old trade links and there was a Scottish ’embassy’ in Bruges (at Schotsdijk – the building still stands) which catered with the large wool trade. There was also a ‘Flemish House’ in Berwick Upon Tweed but Longshanks burned them all alive in it during one of his invasions – what a nice fellow. Notice the orange pan-tiled roofs all up the east coast of Scotland? All brought back on ships from the low countries as ballast. We were Europeans long before we became ‘British’…..

    295. Robert Hughes says:

      ……..having previously wrapped herself in a Saltire to gain popularity prior to 2014 the in a #ME TOO flag to attempt to destroy A Salmond , then a Rainbow one to show her * Progressive * credentials will now drape a Covid flag over herself to avoid anything as inconvenient as progressing our Independence .

      She’s a cynical charlatan that will use anything and anyone to further HER interests

    296. twathater says:

      I agree with everything Alf , Breeks , James Che posts about colonialism and being a colony , unfortunately WE elected and accepted the QUISLINGS of all the parties to govern us , every last one of them pushed the union mantra over the BENEFIT to THEIR OWN country of being independent , every last one of them favoured and STILL favours their english masters over their own countrymen , every last one of them hid and denied the existence of the John Jappy report that PROVED Scotland was as RICH AS NORWAY
      THEIR denial to this day to support their country gaining freedom from a despicable one sided union that has and continues to STEAL and manipulate the resources of their supposed country indicates the depth of their treasonous actions

      Scottish Labour PISH QUISLINGS
      Scottish tories PISH QUISLINGS
      Scottish Lib Dumbs PISH QUISLINGS
      New Sturgeon Scottish National Party PISH QUISLINGS

      THAT is why we are NOT an independent state

    297. sarah says:

      ON Topic: They say that people who go to jail pick up a lot of ideas – it is an education, usually in how to get better at crime.

      Well, a pleasing thought is that Craig’s presence could well have helped educate the staff and fellow prisoners as to the misdemeanours of Sturgeon’s Nasty Party/Sometime Never Party.

      Wouldn’t it be good if Craig’s misfortune bears some bitter fruit for the SNP leadership clique!

    298. Ruby says:

      Can anyone tell me what the process necessary to enable a referendum before the end of 2023 actually is?

    299. Alf Baird says:

      According to the Prime Minister of Barbados, there are only two requirements to become an independent republic:

      1. a sovereign people
      2. a national majority of MPs

      And not a dodgy British-run referendum or S.30 in sight.

      I wonder if the FM met Barbados PM Mia Amor Mottley during COP26 – she might have learned what to do with sovereignty and a national majority of MPs.

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2021/11/29/barbados-ditches-the-queen/

    300. Ruby says:

      Will Sturgeon & the New SNP deter soft NOs from voting YES?

      What about YES voters how inclined will they be to take part in anything Sturgeon is involved in?

      As it stands I look at the Sturgeon & the SNP and all I want to say is can you please just FUCK OFF!

    301. Hatuey says:

      “I agree with everything Alf , Breeks , James Che posts about colonialism and being a colony”

      What difference does it make if you think Scotland is a colony or not? It’s hard to see how believing that enhances the argument for independence. And you definitely don’t need to believe that to make a case for independence.

      So you think we are a colony, now what?

      On the other hand, I don’t see why the ‘colony argument’ should upset anyone that believes in independence.

      I assume we all want independence for the same democratic reasons and that we share the belief that decisions affecting Scotland ought to be made by Scottish people. That’s the bit that matters whether you want to call us a colony or not.

    302. wull says:

      When Sturgeon states so quickly, so publicly, and so early – before there has been any scientific research on the matter – that the new Covid variant might (be yet another excuse to) force her into putting off Indyref2, it demonstrates exactly who and what she is, as well as what she wants, and plans.

      Who and what is she? Well, for one thing, she is a total science-denier.

      Not just in regard to gender change – making a declaration or signing a piece of paper will never change anyone’s chromosomes – but also in regard to Covid (and therefore. we may presume, everything else as well).

      Let her fan-club be clear: scientific facts simply don’t matter to her. None of her judgements are based on them.

      Scientifically, nobody yet knows whether or not, or how far, this new variant is actually dangerous. It might indeed be extremely dangerous – but, equally, it might not be. We just don’t know yet.

      Some reports so far – to be taken with due caution, because what evidence exists is totally inadequate – suggest that those who have contracted the new variant are showing only very mild symptoms. There is even a possibility – no more than that, just a possibility, so take this with due care – that the quick spread of this new variant might actually help our immune systems to build up resistance to more dangerous forms of the same thing that we already know about.

      In short, what we know at the moment is too scanty to make any judgements on the eventual and long-term effects of the new variant. The precautionary measures being taken by many countries across the world to prevent its spread are just that – precautionary.

      They are based on a potential worst case scenario, and for that reason, they are wise. They are not based on a series of ‘new facts’ about the new virus. We know its existence – the facts’ about it, and about its effects, are not yet in. They have still to be established.

      Suspending Indyref2 – or even thinking about suspending it, or announcing such a possibility – is NOT a precautionary measure. Currently, from what we know so far, it is a totally inane and unfounded speculation – not founded, that is, on any scientific facts about the new variant.

      So why does Scotland’s own self-appointed Madame Covid step straight in with her ‘this might force me to postpone the Indyref2 I promised you’?

      Letting you believe that there are solid facts on account of which you should start getting used to the idea that Indyref2 won’t be possible. When the truth is that no such facts have been established…

      She is not talking facts, but revealing her own interior desire and hope that the new variant will have this effect, that it will kill off Indyref2. It will be such a shame if it kills off a lot of people as well but, having said that, its main purpose (from a subjective point of view) is to kill off Indyref2.

      This, the posture says, is not because she doesn’t want Indyref2 – of course, she is longing for it. But its postponement will be necessary for everyone’s own good. Being such a responsible person, she will have to act in the interests of all Scots, the whole country, since that is her job as FM.

      For the past 18 months, he has been posing on never-ending television broadcasts as our best advised and therefore best informed expert on Covid. With numbers and charts and all these fancy things. Bamboozling us with power-point (or with her own pointless – as far as independence is concerned – use of power)!

      So she hopes we are all gullible enough to believe her when she pretends that her latest ‘doubt message’ about Indyref2 is based on sound scientific data. When, as yet, there isn’t any! So, it most certainly isn’t.

      It’s simply pure speculation, a shot in the dark. But also a give-away, for it shows us what she really wants, and what she is planning.

      A statement that reveals exactly what she hopes Covid – in its new variant – will do for her.

      Since she gives the impression of thinking that the whole world has been invented for her own benefit, you might be forgiven (even if forgiveness might not be her strong point) for supposing that she has come to regard Covid as her saviour… Saving her from ever having to lead an Indyref.

      And if it appears like that to her, it is probably because she knows fine well 9as do we) that if she ever leads one, she’ll lose it. And when she loses it, that will be the end of her political career. She must not leave Scottish politics as a proven failure… Or even seeming to be a proven failure…

      And she maybe knows with absolute certainty that that is what will happen if she is ever cornered into actually leading an Indyref2. Doing what she has to keep pretending to want, although it’s probably the very last thing she intends. She does not want an Indyref2 because she has no idea how to win it: she never did have, and she hasn’t now.

      That’s one of the reasons why she suffers from ‘imposter complex’, or ‘syndrome’. She knows she is a lousy campaigner, a born loser (of campaigns). So much so that even when she does win, she still acts as a loser. (

      Hence, in Teresa May’s snap election, she actually retained her majority, and therefore still won quite handsomely, and certainly sufficiently to go on the attack. But because her new majority (of Scots MPs) was less than her old one, she acted as if she had lost. This, to the detriment of her own Party’s purpose, and of us all, especially those of us who had voted for it.

      One of the other reasons for her feelings of being an imposter is because her success as a politician – her being able to get her hands on the power that the position of Party Leader (and also FM) gave her – has been built entirely on the failure of her Party to win Indyref1. She knows that, and must be aware of it.

      If we had won Indyref1, Alex Salmond would have carried through Scotland’s independence, and would almost certainly still be in office. She would never ever had anything like the amount of power she has wielded during the past 7 years, especially in the Party but also in the government (feeble though this latter is, in a devolved situation, made still feebler by her many failures in office).

      These 7 lean years… Hopefully, years of real plenty will eventually follow, sooner rather than later.

      Think what that ‘foundation on failure’ does to the ego of someone as egotistical as NS. She has to go around knowing, deep down within herself, that all her power – which she so much coveted and so much loves (more than anything or anyone else, it might be said) – is based on a failure of the Scottish independence movement!

      She needed Indyref1 to fail for her to leapfrog her mentor Alex Salmond. If it had succeeded, as it almost did, she would never have managed it. She needed him to fail, or seem to. And that came about with Indyref1.

      Ironically, since his (apparent) ‘failure’ became her (apparent) ‘success’, it seems that he then became the one she feared most. Not least because he still wanted the independence movement to succeed – and very badly so, from his whole heart. And he was still acting towards that end. he was not wrong to do so: that was the purpose of his political life, and the clearly stated purpose of their political party (both hers and his – the SNP).

      Yet, if she wanted to make her own mark, it is easy to imagine that she would have thought she had to differentiate herself from him. Put clear blue water not between nationalism and unionism, but between her and her erstwhile mentor. One might suppose she had to (seem to be) ‘better’ than him – especially in the public eye. Was that even the way she presented herself? Or allowed her minions to present her? Such a nice woman, and so much more appealing for other women than… well, than who?

      For her to keep succeeding, he would need to disappear… Be out of the public eye. Not just a matter of there being only enough power in the battery for one sole limelighter, perhaps – monopolies need only one torch-bearer – but also a question of making sure his remaining influence in the Party dimmed quickly, and petered out sooner rather than later.

      If it was to be her Party, not his, wouldn’t he have to go. And if she would have to define herself against him, as the opposite of him – much better than him – did it mean he would have to snuff himself out? Or would he have to be helped to do so…?

      Did all this ultimately include replacing his agenda (which was, to her, an old-fashioned, outdated and typically masculine gung-ho kind of Scottish independence) with hers, (which meant creating the kind of Scotland, and the kind of Scots, she considered ‘nice’ and acceptable and which she wanted all of us to become).

      We were to be made – or rather remade – in her own image. This was more important than independence, as such. If independence came, well OK, so be it. She wasn’t diametrically opposed to it.

      But if it didn’t, she would still refashion Scotland into the kind of society she wanted. That was the prime objective. It would never again be the kind of Scotland that she grew up in, which she saw as overwhelmingly dominated and led by what she probably thought of as ‘the unreconstructed Scottish male’. The kind of person, that is, whom she fundamentally disliked, if not actually hated and despised.

      Then she experienced the massive rise in SNP fortunes after Indyref1, which quite probably she (in my view mistakenly, and disastrously) attributed to herself. That is, to her own supposed personality and the style or brand of leadership she projected, selling her (invented) image of herself. nd to her own personality.

      How did she take it then when, especially in the wake of the Brexit vote, AS continued to ‘pester her’ – not in reality, but as she would perhaps have seen it – to pursue with full guns blazing the greatest opportunity that Scotland had ever had to achieve independence?

      Could it not be, then, that she began to see him not only as the biggest threat to her recently acquired power over party and government, but also as the very personification of that ‘unreconstructed Scottish male’ she wanted to get rid of. And even, perhaps, bury stone dead, once and for all.

      I am not saying this actually happened. But if it did, or if it had done, it could easily have helped her to clarify her own priorities, in regard to what she really wanted to achieve now that she had gained power. With the leadership of the Party in her grasp, and her as First Minister, she had got what she always wanted: what would she do with it?

      If she saw herself as the newly crowned monarch of all she surveyed, for instance when she parachuted herself into that Glasgow Conference Centre to rapturous acclaim, this was her great chance to make her mark on the whole country.

      Like the rest of us – maybe more than the rest of us – many politicians are not always very strong on self-knowledge, and not all of them have a clear understanding from the outset of why they want power. And even less understanding of what they will do with it if they get it.

      They know they want it – they have huge drive and ambition moving them along towards it – but they do not always know the depths of their own motivation. What they are really after can be hidden from themselves, or they only half-glimpse it, even while they mouth all the things they think they hold as convictions although, at bottom they are not genuinely such – but only means of getting where they want to be. That is, means of getting themselves into that driving seat, currently occupied by someone else, even within their own Party, but which they desire mightily for themselves and think of as rightfully theirs.

      No wonder they so often disappoint once they do have power (in my view, AS was an exception here – there was no gap between what he said he would do and what he actually did, between what he set out to do and his actual performance in office, given of course all the limitations imposed by ongoing ever-changing events and circumstances). Taking your opportunities when they arise is necessary to succeed in politics, for sure, but so many politicians are pure opportunists, who seek only the advancement of their own career, rather than using opportunities to advance the causes they claim to serve.

      Such self-seekers want power, and they will do almost anything to get it, but they don’t really know why they want it., or what they want to achieve by it. Insofar as their real motivations are unconscious, or only semi-conscious, you could almost say they do not know the masters they serve. The forces, that is, which will use them, whether for good or – much more often – for ill.

      I am not saying NS was against Scottish independence when she chose the SNP as the means through which she would pursue her political career (which, as for most other politicians, includes her quest for power). Nor am I even saying that she wouldn’t take Scottish independence now, and be OK with it, if it was given to her on a plate.

      But what I am saying, and what is now patently obvious to all but her most blinkered supporters, is that winning Scottish independence is not, and never actually has been, the driving force of her political career.

      It is now revealed (even to herself, because at the outset she might not have seen these things clearly) that commitment to independence is not and never has been the motor that brought her into politics, or that made her join the SNP, or the explanation of why she wanted to wield so much power over other people in the first place.

      What is now revealed as her overriding priority is the refashioning of Scottish society, and Scottish people, so that we, individually and collectively, all become the kind of people she feels at home with, and isn’t threatened by. That is to say, we all become living images of herself, and of what she – and her chums – define as the ‘new’ and’everlasting’ normal!

      Maybe that means, for all the males reading here (alpha or otherwise!) that we become like… well, like who? Maybe, (just a suggestion, of course), like the man she married…

      And if you don’t like it – and don’t ‘fancy it’ – she/or/he/ or whatever ‘it’ is, will just have to force you into it. (In politically correct language, no doubt, the ‘fancy-man’ of yore is probably now a ‘fancy-it’).

      Her statement today proves beyond any shadow of doubt that her priority is NOT independence, and certainly NOT Indyref2. That Indyref2 thing has to be avoided at all costs – because she would certainly lose it. And losing it would mean her political career would come to an abrupt end, having ended in failure.

      In large part, by the way, one of the main reasons why it is certain she would lose it is because her heart is simply not in it. She is totally unable to lead an independence campaign, because she does not believe that independence is really important. And she has now acquired enough self-knowledge to realise that in terms of gaining independence, she is a born loser. It needs conviction, and she hasn’t got it.

      Tragically, AS thought she was as committed as he was. Little did he realise… Maybe even the best of politicians are not the best judge of people, and discover too late and to their cost how they have been deceived by those they thought their friends.

      Her statement today also shows how desperate she is NOT to have that Indyref2 thing, and certainly not to be the one who would have to lead it. She will use any opportunity whatsoever that arises to keep kicking it into touch. It must be avoided at all costs.

      In this regard, the new Covid variant can only be described as her immediate ally. That’s why she latched onto it so quickly. And, indeed, why she has now politicised it so rashly, and so wantonly. Every straw will be clutched in the pursuit of the goal,

      More than anything else, what she cares about, it seems, is her own political survival, but also the implementation, even by force, of her own cherished (gender) priorities. There she does seem to show some kind of genuine conviction. But it is a conviction that remained hidden from us, the public, for all these many years – as it had to, because it would have prevented her political advancement of she had been open about it. Just too unpopular a set of notions for her to flag-wave about it early on in her career – only once she got hold of the power she sought could she bring it out into something like ‘the open’ – but even then, even now, she is till operating surreptitiously, and by stealth. It is being sprung on a still insufficiently suspecting people.

      Did she know all along that this is what she would eventually be all about? Maybe, But, equally, maybe not. As I said, for many politicians who crave power without having a clear idea of why they crave it, or a clear notion what they will do with it if they acquire it, they do not really know the masters whom they will eventually serve. They don’t know whose pawn they really are, or what cause will eventually turn out to be theirs. As masterly manipulators, they use other people for their own ends, but they don’t always realise who or what is using them, or in the service of which force their efforts will eventually lead them.

      All this is and will be presented as being for your own good, of course, because her priorities – her vision of what future men and women (especially future Scotsmen and future Scotswomen) will be – are all that really matters, and all that any of us really need. So she thinks. And she also thinks all of her fantasies can easily and rightly, and very simply, be brought about by political manipulation.

      This si what she was born for, and she now knows – if she did not beforehand – exactly why, from such an early age, she was determined to get her hand on the tiller. And that’s also why she is so determined to keep it there, as she said over the week-end.

      She’s not going anywhere, and she can’t hide her real intentions – the cause(s) she really serves – any more. She becomes more and more uncamouflaged and blatant about it, by the day. And she feels more and more emboldened, since no one ever calls her out.

      I greatly appreciate Stuart Campbell and his WoS, and fully sympathise with his bowing out for now, ostensibly at least (and I hope only ostensibly). But I can’t help adding that all of this is so increasingly desperate – in terms of the independence movement, yes, but even at a still deeper level as well – that we need him more than ever.

      When truth is no longer spoken out, the whole earth becomes a swamp of lies. Who wants to drown in that stuff?

    303. PacMan says:

      At the beginning of the pandemic we were told that there were two solutions to stop Covid, one let everybody get infected in order to develop a herd immunity and the other, lock down restrictions in order to get the population vaccinated.

      We went down the latter route and here we are now, an new variant is out, everybody is panicking and Nicola Sturgeon is all but saying that there won’t be another referendum until the pandemic is over.

      It was obvious that anybody with an ounce of common sense would know that vaccination will not stop Covid. If it did then the common flu will have been eradicated decades ago. I’m no virus expert but I’ve got a feeling that this notion of herd immunity that was initially aired will not stop Covid as well.

      With this Omicron variant, it is too early to tell how bad it is and South Africa has a much younger population than Western countries whom the virus affects less seriously so the data collected there can’t be used to determine how it will will perform here. However, it is possible that while it may be more transmissible and more resistant to current vaccines, it may cause less severe illness in those infected.

      If that is the case, the way out of the pandemic may have to waiting until it mutates to a state where it becomes as mild as the flu. That isn’t is a sort of herd immunity but living with the virus.

      In terms of Scottish politics, Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP can say that they want to concentrate on the pandemic until it is over before holding a referendum until judgement day and using their logic, it is valid.

      Another perspective is that, if I am right about having to live with Covid until it gets to a level of severity that is morally acceptable to society, shouldn’t we building up capacity in our health services to deal both with Covid and the normal health problems that our society faces?

      If so, that extra capacity can only come with increased financial investment. Can this be done inside the UK where we are strung with limited economic levers and tied to English health spending due to Barnett or can it be done through independence where we will be able to divert the necessary resources to deal with it rather than going into economically and socially damaging restrictions?

      I’ve only been out a few times to pubs since the restrictions were lifted, not really interested in it to be honest but the times I have been out, there are been little or no attempt to get my or anybody else’s track and trace details. I’m also seeing more and more going into supermarkets, shops and public transport without masks. It is going to get to the point that people and businesses are not obeying the rules that it will make it pointless.

      The question is how long will politicians be able to stick with the current strategy of using restrictions against the virus and how long will people accept these restrictions?

      Again, it may come down to the simple fact that the only way to deal with it is to live with it. The only way I can see that working is increased health investment as mentioned before. Can this be done in Scotland while being in the UK or as an independent nation?

      Rightly so, the argument for independence is centred mainly on economics but it may come to a point where other factors like health play more importance. It is something worth discussing but I doubt Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP will entertain it though. The pandemic has been the golden goose to them.

    304. Alf Baird says:

      Hatuey @ 9:21 pm

      “What difference does it make if you think Scotland is a colony or not?”

      A doctor has to first correctly diagnose the illness before it can be cured. A ‘union’ is not the same condition as a ‘colony’.

      In a ‘union’ of equals the nation is at liberty to exercise sovereignty and will survive. In colonialism the nation is ‘perishing’ and the only remedy for the condition is independence/sovereignty.

      “the colonial condition cannot be adjusted to; like an iron collar, it can only be broken” (Albert Memmi).

    305. Hatuey says:

      “A doctor has to first correctly diagnose the illness before it can be cured.”

      Since we all agree on the cure, independence, who cares what the doctor diagnoses?

      It only matters if you’re a player and regard all this is some sort of hobby or game.

      Those who think Scotland is a colony want independence. Civic nationalists who want democracy want independence. Get on with it.

    306. Breeks says:

      wull says:
      29 November, 2021 at 9:31 pm

      …..She’s not going anywhere, and she can’t hide her real intentions – the cause(s) she really serves – any more. She becomes more and more uncamouflaged and blatant about it, by the day. And she feels more and more emboldened, since no one ever calls her out….

      I agree with much of that Wull, and in a parallel world, I might even feel sympathy towards Sturgeon’s unhappy position, promoted way beyond her abilities, floundering with responsibilities she can only address superficially, and I can see how people get themselves into those positions. Sometimes it’s not even the misjudgment of being over promoted, the judgement can be sound, but sometimes people just crumble under the stress or responsibility they cannot handle.

      I also think you’re spot on about Sturgeon’s denial of the science. Jeezo, once you realise someone doesn’t grasp the subject matter which she’s meant to be in charge of, then everything get’s shunted to a different place on the spectrum. If she cannot process the science objectively and think analytically, then what is the basis of her decisions?

      But where things turn much darker, and I think much, much, darker, is this attempted demolition of Alex Salmond’s reputation and legacy, and indeed demonisation of the man himself. For god’s sake, she tried to stitch him up as a sex offender who needed sent to jail! There is something downright nasty behind this. It’s unhinged.

      There is something equally unsettling about the scatter gun vindictiveness that if she can’t topple Salmond, then someone else must pay; Craig Murray, Mark Hirst, Dave Llewelyn,…Joanna Cherry. Jeezo Sturgeon, these people are Independence stalwarts, champions for the cause! What in god’s name is fuelling such visceral hatred?

      But therein lies the problem for me, – the bit that doesn’t add up. I don’t want to come across as a misogynist, but to be very blunt, I think Sturgeon is simply too dumb to be orchestrating this. She hasn’t got the strategic acumen, but yet there is orchestration everywhere you look. Scottish Independence has been deliberately derailed with both our people tremendous momentum, and multiple golden opportunities all squandered.

      It’s perfectly obvious who benefits from that, … but it isn’t Nicola Sturgeon.

    307. Hatuey says:

      Breeks: “to be very blunt, I think Sturgeon is simply too dumb to be orchestrating this.”

      I don’t think anything she has done or attempted to do required any intelligence. When you need to hide the truth with endless redactions and legal threats, you haven’t demonstrated intelligent planning — quite the opposite.

      Salmond won in both courts. Those who tried to destroy him failed in both courts. That’s the ultimate yardstick in all this. And it isn’t over, not yet.

      Over the last few decades we’ve seen all sorts of political rivalries play out in British and Scottish politics. I’ve never seen anyone try to imprison their rivals.

      I see what you’re getting at when you talk about who benefits from all this, but I disagree. Nicola by her own self-defined lowly standards benefits.

      I’m much more comfortable with the idea that Sturgeon done all this because she is a British plant than I am with what I believe to be the truth; that she done it out of selfishness, vanity, and megalomania. And I think that’s much worse and much darker.

    308. Stoker says:

      So much for one million copies of the SNPs’ National supplement. Anyone received their copy yet? I haven’t and nobody i know has. Have they even started the deliveries yet?

      Maybe they’re struggling for real activists. You know, feet on the ground rather than cross-dressers sitting in a room abusing folk on the internet in between trying on various outfits and matching the latest lippy to their bumfluff stubble?

      Either way i’m itching to see what it contains and how much matches her big announcement yesterday that “Through the course of next year” she “will initiate the process that will lead to indyref by end of 2023”.

      BTW, talking of her big announcement, i seen a decent cut version of her waffle and waited on the ‘but’ (caveat) that never appeared. Anyone see the full thing and did she include any caveats? I’m not talking about her statement the day before when she wouldn’t deny Covid could stop indyref etc. I’m talking specifically about her big “conference” speech. LOL!

    309. Alf Baird says:

      Hatuey @ 10:47 pm

      “Civic nationalists who want democracy want independence.”

      So-called ‘civic nationalists’ cost us our independence in 2014 and are likely to do so again if there is another referendum using a local government franchise for a national referendum. People from other nations don’t exhibit any sense of belonging to a Scottish nation by voting to block its citizenship and give away its sovereignty. Do you know what civic nationalism means?

    310. Alf Baird says:

      Breeks @ 11.14

      “There is something downright nasty behind this. It’s unhinged.”

      We should remember where we are in the overall scheme of things as well as the nature and ‘values’ of colonialism:

      “between colonization and civilization there is an infinite distance; that out of all the colonial expeditions that have been undertaken, out of all the colonial statutes that have been drawn up, out of all the memoranda that have been despatched by all the ministries, there could not come a single human value.” (Aime Cesaire)

      In the colonial situation, all the native seeking independence can expect is ‘downright nasty’ and ‘unhinged’ – this reflects “how colonization works to decivilize the colonizer”.

    311. Grouse Beater says:

      Grouse Beater

      Proud purveyor of indigenous news to Indigenous People since 2014

      Barbados becomes a republic. No one screamed ‘Blood and soil nationalism!” for the people were happy.

      “The creation of this republic offers a new beginning,” Prince Charles

    312. Ruby says:

      There is going to be a huge problem should IndyRef2 ever take place.
      The problem won’t be the franchise or whether or not you think Scotland is a colony.
      The problem will be Nicola Sturgeon & the SNP.

      How inclined will people be to follow a leader they believe stitched up Alex Salmond, defrauded supporters, doesn’t care about women’s rights etc etc?

      This is something the loyal supporters of Sturgeon are going to have to ask themselves if they really want independence.

    313. sarah says:

      Is anyone getting independence live filming of Craig’s release yet?

    314. sarah says:

      Found it – they are waiting and signal is weak…

    315. sarah says:

      WINGS FLAG at Saughton!

    316. Republicofscotland says:

      List of winners in SNP’s internal elections.

      Wokerati rules.

      https://archive.md/VjCep

    317. Ebok says:

      Perhaps bad timing with Craigs release being imminent, but…

      wull says:

      29 November, 2021 at 9:31 pm

      ‘She’s not going anywhere, and she can’t hide her real intentions’

      Breeks says:
      29 November, 2021 at 11:14 pm
      ‘There is something downright nasty behind this. It’s unhinged.’

      Hatuey says:
      30 November, 2021 at 12:23 am
      ‘And I think that’s much worse and much darker.’

      No objective person could come to any other conclusion. The only element missing from much of the comments posted, not just from above, but generally, is the urgency of the situation.
      In the seven months since the HR elections hardly a glove has been laid on SNP or its main conspirators over the range of disgraceful actions before and since.

      All talk and no action won’t cut it: action is urgently required. The only way we can get at Sturgeon quickly – like TOMMOROW – is to do so from within, as I was getting at a couple of days ago.
      Doing so does not detract from or weaken the other strategies that have been advocated, but these options all appear to be too slow and too open to legal challenges. (Being right, even in a legal sense, doesn’t seem to mean much in todays Scotland…)

      The main priority must be to find a way to put the brakes on this truly awful scotgov: there must be many MSP’s who read the Denise and Robin articles, Iain Lawson and others, as well as comments on here, and these MSP’s can no longer be in denial. They need to acknowledge their error in allowing her to get away with so many disreputable actions. They need to recognise the reality and urgency of the situation. They need to band together and say ‘enough is enough’.

      And if they do, I WILL love them and forgive them for past indiscretions: just as Scots did for Bruce, and as he did for many of the rogues who signed the declaration.

      Happy St Andrews day to all.

    318. sarah says:

      @ Dan, BDTT: could you post a link to Independence Live’s crowdfunder – it is really struggling – £980 of target £8,500.

    319. Alf Baird says:

      auld highlander @ 10:54 am

      “Craig Murray”

      Shame on the SNP gang and its colonial administration.

      Colonialism is force, a scourge, a form of punishment, as we can see with these political prosecutions and also with Scotland’s grossly excessive prison population, which is a colonial norm and legacy. Colonialism must be ended, even according to the UN, which is why Scotland must become independent, to end colonialism, and liberate the people. Welcome back Craig Murray.

    320. Hatuey says:

      Ebok: “The only way we can get at Sturgeon quickly – like TOMMOROW – is to do so from within, as I was getting at a couple of days ago.”

      The obvious problem is that we aren’t “within”.

      Structurally, the SNP is basically a family-run private business now, not a PLC.

      But I think you’re right, the likelihood is that someone who is close to her now will turn against her at some point. That’s how it usually plays out.

      Everything hinges on her personal ratings on a certain level. And that’s why I am here,… to work on her ratings. It’s the only rational reason left for commenting here.

      One does what one can.

    321. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      That was Wee Annie fae Dundee with the WOS flag outside the prison.
      She’s been there every Sunday afternoon for the demos.

      Independence Life croedfunder:-

      https://independencelive.net/donate/

    322. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      croedfunder = crowdfunder!

    323. sarah says:

      @ BDTT: thanks for the crowdfunder link!

      So that is Wee Annie – I’ve seen her on the reports from Saughton each week. I can’t understand Edinburgh being so lacking in showing support – I thought Yes Edinburgh, Marchmont & Morningside etc etc would have ensured a good turnout each week but it was always just 4 or 5 including Wee Annie and Dave Llewelyn. My opinion of Edinburgh has sunk very low.

    324. Hatuey says:

      The sound quality was terrible on the live broadcast which is a pity because we all wanted to hear what he had to say. And I’m sorry if it offends, but capturing audio in a situation like that is extremely simple. Huge fail.

    325. sarah says:

      @ Hatuey: the crowdfunder is for upgrading Indy live’s equipment, I believe, so they can solve such issues. Of course they wouldn’t be needed at all if the BBC and others did a proper job.

    326. James Che. says:

      I think Craig will need time with his family and time to regain his health, we all welcome you home Craig.

      Rather than seeing you as a failure, most of Scotland now see you as a hero and a future martyr.
      That is the result and failure of a corrupt snp and legalese department, AS, and mark hurst are on that list of Scottish history hero’s also.

      Hatuey.
      However Back to the previous conversation,
      It matters wether the Scots feel they are under colonialism or not.
      It is a mind set to this day whereby the Scottish people are still on their knees begging for referendum permission to be free from their master.
      That is what is stopping us all from “getting on with it” as you say.

      If the Scottish people had confidence in their own abilities in knowing they could forge ahead to a more prosperous Scotland with out a distant master to look after their worries and woes,
      Scotland would now be an independent country or perhaps a republic similar to Barbados.

      However we are now 300 years into having a colonial mindset of Scottish people and the master has told those people you are too wee, too poor, and too stupid to know how to go it alone, and fear and doubt has been built up by the master over a long time period to keep subservient people in a colonial underdog mindset.

      Knowing why the the Scots Do not get on with it,
      Is the downfall of freedom.
      The demise of Scotland itself,
      For many a Scottish person has been born into the colonial mindset as any other colonial slave was, those that were forced against their will have over hundreds of years become used to relying on the master allowing them to live, house them, to feed them, to look after the plantation of life and the country their feet stand upon,
      Fear holds them to colonialism even now.

      Whereas position and money hold the other “parcel of rogues” sitting as managers in the Scottish branch office in Scotland.
      Payment of managers to keep the rest of the people under control was common on every slave plantation.

      Only when the Scots are brave enough, and face up to how they have been born and taught, trained how to think, will a end come to the old colonial ways that still direct the Scots psyche.
      To recognise they were forced by an army to accept serfdom to England in 1707,
      That every rebellion they ever tried or failed with was enforced to enslave them and their country by England’s army.

      It was never voluntary.
      It is was never equal,
      The Scottish people, and the land they Stood on was sold by the rich three estates to England in 1707.
      Bought and sold,
      As slaves on a plantation.

      When the Scottish people become fed up with colonial masters and being forcibly enslaved then, “They will get on with it”
      A fair proportion do not realise yet that their country and ancestors were bought in a slave trade for English gold.

    327. Hatuey says:

      Sarah, I’ve contributed to more than one of their crowdfunders over the years. I get the idea.

      They need to get things right. And if they can’t, why can’t they? This stuff matters. Getting the audio right in a situation like that matters.

      And I have no fucking idea how, after all these fucking years, they can’t get the audio right when they do these things.

      I can’t believe it’s down to shortage of funds when I know you can buy something like a Rode wireless kit for about £150.

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/RØDE-Wireless-Compact-Microphone-System/dp/B07QGGBNMN?th=1

      What exactly are they doing, filming with an iPad? Okay, you can get wireless mics for those too.

      It’s infuriating. And it makes us, them, and everything they cover, look like amateur night.

    328. Breeks says:

      I’m very glad for Craig Murray that his prison ordeal is over, but frankly, I find it difficult to feel any other emotion but anger that was ever incarcerated in the first place. What a disgrace on Scotland’s Judiciary and Sturgeon’s corrupt team of Allstars.

      You know what thought entered my head watching the video Craig speaking outside Saughton? If this grotesque conspiracy had succeeded, it would have been Alex Salmond they put away. He was their intended target, to be smeared, branded as a sex offender, and jailed, and it is very doubtful that Alex Salmond would ever have been seen standing outside a Scottish prison on his release day.

      If you’re not angry about that, you bloody well should be. It also reeks of UK “security” services involvement. That might be the invisible component in all this, so far, but the telling stench is everywhere.

      I’m loving the fact that Craig is taking this to the European Court of Human Rights. Good on ya Craig. I hope that Sturgeon and the Alphabetties understand that the truth will out and justice will be done, and they will rue the day they ever embarked on their grubby and malevolent conspiracy.

      Tick tock…

    329. James Che. says:

      Hatuey.
      Tend to agree with you about quality on Scottish Indy,
      There are teenagers and twelve year olds uploading to internet and you tube with much better quality.

      And it does make us look like numpties.

    330. James Che. says:

      Breeks.

      Especially as the alphabet women are still under false extended protection after Alex was found not guilty.

    331. James Che. says:

      It seems that the bbc are the new advisors to the Scottish government and NS.

    332. Ebok says:

      mike cassidy says:
      30 November, 2021 at 12:21 pm
      On “FREE MONEY OFFER”

      ‘Surprising lack of rush to clean you out
      Given NS has announced there will be a referendum before the end of 2023
      Looks like even the Sturgeonistas no longer have the faith’

      The Rev is pretty sharp and will know that the odds of even money on offer would have the meanest of bookies raising an eyebrow.
      The caveat ‘while Nicola Sturgeon is First Minister’ must be considered first.
      What are the odds of her being in office in late 2023, the first possible date?
      Let’s be pessimistic and say it’s 50-50 i.e., even money!

      Of course, she has already indicated that she is looking for excuses to renege on Indy 2, so that will raise the odds too. Let’s be generous this time and say that the odds of Indy 2 taking place by 2023 are 2-1 against. That make the TRUE odds of Indy 2 by 2023 – with Sturgeon still FM – FIVE TO ONE AGAINST.

      Now the longer it takes for Indy 2 to happen, the more likely Sturgeon will no longer be FM.
      The Rev knows full well that any punter taking odds of evens, when the true odds are much longer, will soon be bankrupt. So, offering these odds was no gamble! The real gamble is not placing a time limit on the bet offer.

      There is still a chance, however small, of The Rev losing a great deal of money, so in his shoes I would have made a deal with my friendly bookie to hedge any dangerously high bets. I’m not suggesting he has done so: all poker players play the odds, though I do hope that Stu is not going to go ‘all in’ on this one when there is profit to be made by hedging.

    333. Hatuey says:

      James, I’ve been waiting on them to improve for years and years. This sort of thing happens all the time.

      You could literally do better with no more than a smart phone.

    334. sarah says:

      @ Hatuey: I am not tech knowledgeable at all. Perhaps if you contacted the indy live folk you might be able to give them a nudge in the right direction?

    335. Ruby says:

      Hatuey says:
      30 November, 2021 at 3:32 pm

      You could literally do better with no more than a smart phone.

      Reply

      I doubt it especially not on a windy day!

      They need a big mike covered in a ‘dead cat’ & even then recording in the wind is never easy.

    336. Hatuey says:

      I’m sure you mean well, Sarah, but this stuff is so simple that it would be like advising someone on how to boil water with a kettle.

      All the clever stuff on the backend and distribution is handled by youtube — anyone with a YouTube account can broadcast live with a mobile phone. Then, on top of that, you plug in an external mic, wired or wireless, it’s all super simple stuff, you’re away.

      There’s no excuse for that dire standard. Why couldn’t he simply have gotten closer if he doesn’t have an external mic?

      Massive fail. If that was a professional, he’d be fired instantly. It’s hard to image how it could have been done more badly.

      Just fucking dire.

    337. Hatuey says:

      Ruby, that would be ideal. The worst case scenario is the built in mic on an iPad from a distance.

      And you’d be surprised what you can do with a mobile and an external mic (which you can buy on eBay for buttons, and they come with dead cats).

    338. sarah says:

      @ Hatuey: I do mean well!! 🙂

    339. Andy Ellis says:

      Firstly, happy St Andrew’s Day to one and all: even to nativist moon howlers! Good to see Craig Murray finally being released from his unjustified and unjustifiable imprisonment.

      A few thoughts on two contributions above:

      @Hatuey 10.47 pm
      “Those who think Scotland is a colony want independence. Civic nationalists who want democracy want independence. Get on with it.”

      @Alf Baird 7.35 am
      “So-called ‘civic nationalists’ cost us our independence in 2014 and are likely to do so again if there is another referendum using a local government franchise for a national referendum. People from other nations don’t exhibit any sense of belonging to a Scottish nation by voting to block its citizenship and give away its sovereignty. Do you know what civic nationalism means?”

      It won’t surprise regulars to know I think Hatuey’s analysis is of course right and Alf Baird’s is wrong. There isn’t actually much hard evidence for Alf’s claim of course, but even if we accept the basic premise was right in 2014 (i.e. a small Yes majority of “native” Scots was over-turned by non-native Scots voting heavily No, which turned the overall result from Yes to No), the nativist rejection of civic nationalism still ignores two points:

      1) The relatively small percentages involved in the purported switch – which let’s remember had very little polling back up and very little actual evidence – ignores the fact that the vast majority of Scots voters are still Scottish born. Anyone can see this for themselves if they do they maths and play around with the % on a pretty basic excel spreadsheet. With around 83% of the Scottish population being native born according to the 2011 census, it only takes a few % swing in that group to overwhelm the influence of the non-native minority.

      The route to victory lies in making a better case, ensuring a convincing majority amongst that group, and ensuring that as many non-native Scots as possible support independence. The latter aspect should already be easier due to the impact of brexit on EU citizens and the shambolic nature of the British nationalist project since 2014.

      2) None of the nativists have any idea what impact their plans to restrict the franchise or change it would have had on the past vote in 2014 or on a future vote, or on the readiness of the international community to accept the result. They insist we accept their (unproven) assertion that native Scots are being swamped, but refuse to accept that their proposed solution has any attendant costs.

      That’s just wishful thinking. Alf Baird confidently asserts that “People from other nations don’t exhibit any sense of belonging to a Scottish nation by voting to block its citizenship and give away its sovereignty.” but we all know plenty of people who do JUST THAT. Even according to their own claims, around 30% of non-native born Scots supported Yes in 2014. The movement before 2014 and since is full of individuals and groups of non-native born “new Scots” loudly proclaiming their support for independence.

      A nationalist movement split in to mutually hostile civic and ethnic wings might still pull off a victory in #indyref2 in the unlikely event that happens any time soon, but it may make campaigning more…..interesting. If such a second vote is lost it will of course be very hard to conclusively prove what factors “turned” the vote, and the explanations offered by both sides will I expect be very different.

      Nothing in all the months of discussion and invective since Stu Campbells’s initial comments on the matter however has changed my mind, or I suspect his and those of others who agree that nativism is a politically regressive cul-de-sac. It poses a far greater threat to the chances of attaining independence than sticking with civic nationalism.

    340. twathater says:

      Has someone opened the door and let nicla in with her “we (or YOU) have to get out and convince more no voters and undecideds that independence is needed while I just sit here and spout my usual drivel and MY version of civic nationalism , and just in case you don’t agree with my opinions and that I know what everyone is thinking even national and international politicians I will invoke the name Stuart Campbell into my comment again to give it more gravitas

    341. sarah says:

      @ Hatuey and others: there is a clear recording of Craig’s speech on Alba’s site and others.

    342. Andy Ellis says:

      @Grouse Beater 9.12 am

      “Barbados becomes a republic. No one screamed ‘Blood and soil nationalism!” for the people were happy.”

      No indeed. The already independent country of Barbados decided to change from a constitutional monarchy to a republic as a result of a parliamentary vote, not a referendum. Interestingly, their system allows Commonwealth citizens with 3 years residence and others with seven years residence to vote in elections.

      The change to become a republic required a 2/3 majority in both houses of their parliament, and followed an announcement in 2015 by the Labour party that they would pursue such a change. The Barbadian House of Assembly passed the bill 25-0 in September 2021, the Upper House in October.

      Interestingly polling from 2015 suggested that a large majority of Barbadians opposed becoming a republic. Some think that the government decided not to go down the referendum route as they feared losing, but also the Barbadian system had no past experience of referendums or constitutional provisions for doing so. It is hard to argue they didn’t have legitimacy though given the fact the government commanded a 2/3 majority and had declared it’s intention to move forward on the move to a republic.

    343. sarah says:

      Alba’s facebook has the speech, not the website.

    344. Alf Baird says:

      Andy Ellis @ 4:39 pm

      Most serious independence commentators have ditched the idea of another referendum, for obvious reasons.

      Fortunately for us the colonial power is not allowing another referendum, the colonial administration will probably never get round to organising a referendum, and Scotland doesn’t even need a referendum to be independent.

      Barbados shows what can be done when a people are (a) sovereign and (b) hold a majority of seats. That’s now the direction of travel.

    345. Ruby says:

      Thanks Sarah. 🙂 They’ve done a really good job post production (I’m assuming it’s the same video we saw earlier. The sound is great.

      Here’s the link
      https://www.facebook.com/AlbaParty/videos/484496192887365

    346. Republicofscotland says:

      256 Scots died last year sleeping on the streets, up forty on the previous year, and homelessness played a big factor in their deaths. I can’t say what’s happened in other councils outside Glasgow, however Glasgow city council under the SNP closed quite a few homeless hostels exacerbating the problem greatly, at one point I recall homeless men being given a bus ticket and a sleeping bag by the staff at the now closed Hamish Allan centre, where homeless folk went to find accommodation.

      Ironically the centre was replaced with a new one, but recently homeless folk broke into the old one, and have been sleeping rough inside it. The SNP ran GCC have failed homeless people miserably.

    347. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Craig’s speech with good audio is at the link below, for those who “don’t do Facebook”.

      https://www.albaparty.org/craig_murray

    348. Republicofscotland says:

      Scottish Minister for Drug Policy Angela Constance has announced that by 2026, a thousand drug rehab positions will be available, I suppose its a start after years of doing bugger all on drug deaths in Scotland. However, when you consider that 1339 Scots died from drug related issues last year, and the trend over the last few years is on the up, one has to wonder just how many more Scots will die from drug related issues between now and 2026.

    349. Ruby says:

      I wonder how many of the men Craig mentioned would be homeless if they weren’t in prison.

      I wonder if the term homeless is disguising the real issues. It gives the impression that someone addicted to drugs, with seriously mental health issues, a choatic life etc can all be resolved if they have a ‘home’

    350. Hatuey says:

      Thanks for the link to Craig Murray’s speech.

      He’s an impressive and rare thing, our Craig Murray. A national treasure. And now he’s back, shining, like the brightest star in the sky.

      Sturgeon by comparison is a black hole, sucking in light and giving back nothing.

    351. Ruby says:

      Craig talks about someone who was in prison three times during the time he was there.

      I wonder if this person was sleeping on the streets & prison seemed like the best option.

    352. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Andy Ellis 5:10pm
      And not a weapon in sight. No harm to the population. So much for Fanon.

    353. Happy Independence Day Barbados,

      Barbados Independence Act 1966,

      `On and after 30th November 1966 (in this Act referred to as ” the appointed day “) Her Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom shall have no responsibility for the government of Barbados.

      No Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom passed on or after the appointed day shall extend, or be deemed to extend, to Barbados as part of its law; and on and after that day the provisions of Schedule 1 to this Act shall have effect with respect to the legislative powers of Barbados.`

    354. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Well, this must be the song for tonight…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ALD-rI8Q08

      (Sorry Rev, forgot about the “https”.)

    355. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon 8:56pm
      Well the song is definitely not a Beautiful Sunday. We can’t complain eight 1 nil victories. An injury time equaliser on Saturday by the opposition and a poor performance tonight. Still we won’t be relegated this season and neither will Dundee. Small mercies ye know.

    356. Daisy Walker says:

      Well done Craig Murray for surviving, and with such dignity. Great speach also.

      Re Barbados. Fantastic for them. I’m also somewhat cynical, and cannot help think that part of the Royal Family’s ‘good grace’ over the divorce is likely to be due to some kind of Crown Territory/Tax Free Banking deal having been agreed.

      Re the SNP Nicla fans… the more Alba concentrates on the real policy issues in order to gain Indy, the more the SNP become irrelevant.

      However, in that vain, I suspect there are a lot of people who consider themselves to be YES, but in reality can’t bring themselves to actually get it over the line. They’d much rather continue chasing it, than living it.

      To that end, I would suggest that until Brexshit Britain is twice as bad an option as ‘forecast’ Indy Scot – they won’t budge.

    357. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Daisy Walker 10:20pm
      I can’t comment on Craig Murray I wrote a 4 page letter to him and my wife gave me a red card. I didn’t send it. On Alba they have been invisible of late. Policies need to be driven by what the population want. And we have no reference frame. It’s the personality politics of one person.

    358. robbo says:

      Tannadice boy

      Kenny McCaskill and Neil Hanvey are the only ones trying to do owt for Scotland in thon parliament doon sooth.

      We lose them and we’ll have nowt. May as well kiss goodbye cos SNP will do nowt.

      If you go to around 1628 mins it’s Kenny’s speech. The SNP and greens fecked off just before they came in. See 1620 ish they were there. Brady and the rest.

      https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/91547fc2-302e-44ce-894d-e6c5a9491789

    359. Breeks says:

      https://archive.md/tIYqa

      Dear God.

      Hastings fishermen obstructing an RNLI lifeboat from launching because it might be saving refugees.

      I am speechless.

    360. Robert G says:

      @robbo 12.18am

      I watched the parliamentary debate on offshore renewables and was really disappointed at the SNP members as they all cleared out of the room before Kenny MacAskill and Neale Hanvey spoke. It really does not say much for the SNP.

    361. Hatuey says:

      “Hastings RNLI lifeboat crew ‘blocked from going out to sea’ by people angry at them rescuing refugees”
      https://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/people/hastings-rnli-lifeboat-crew-blocked-from-going-out-to-sea-by-people-angry-at-them-rescuing-refugees-3475179

      Not a great advert for… forget it.

    362. Robert Hughes says:

      ” I watched the parliamentary debate on offshore renewables and was really disappointed at the SNP members as they all cleared out of the room before Kenny MacAskill and Neale Hanvey spoke. It really does not say much for the SNP. ”

      Actually , it says everything about the SNP . They are in full ostrich mode and obviously acting on instruction from the tactical geniuses in High Command , whose main interest is in thwarting any move to progress Independence , because , not many may aware of this but …….come a bit closer ….* sotto voce * Niccolo has a plan …..ssshhh keep yr voice down …. this plan is so devastatingly cunning it doesn’t exist yet ,but be assured it’s still real , not ordinary * real * , a special kind of * real * , a quantum real , a super-position real , you could even think of it as a surreal, dilly Dali kinda plan

    363. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tannadice Boy 7.04 pm

      Indeed: that’s what comes of the nativist ‘s use of false equivalence of course. You almost get the impression some of them wouldn’t be unhappy with the use of violence. Perhaps the Siol nan Gaidheal comparisons weren’t that far off after all?

      Ethnic nationalism is as ethnic nationalism does I suppose? Even if they aren’t actively supporting it, it’s pretty obvious from their abusive natures, their fondness for conspiracy theorising and the speed with which they other anyone disagreeing with their woo-woo as not real nationalists, Sturgeonite stooges, MI5/77th Brigade plants etc., etc. that they are conjuring the ghost of the kind of blood and soil nationalism the movement as a whole rejected decades ago.

      It is to be hoped Alba makes it plain pretty quickly that it finds the nativist prospectus bogus.

    364. Hatuey says:

      “In technical terms, the smoke reduces the electroantennograph response of the antennae. Strong floral odours can have a similar effect, but professional bee keepers have generally stayed with smoke, perhaps because they have more experience with it, and possibly also because it’s cheaper…”

      Everywhere I look I see them telling people omicron is nothing to worry about, symptoms are mild, and there’s even some saying it could be a good thing for us all to catch it.

      Let’s apply the usual filters and try and see through this smoke. Here’s what you should really expect;

      1) it’s going to cause mayhem and they’ve lost control (again)

      2) the hospitals are going to be completely overwhelmed (again)

      3) lots of people will die (again)

      4) we will be back in full lockdown by mid January.

      You’re welcome.

    365. Republicofscotland says:

      Once again a SNP politicians is complaining about how Brexit has left Scotland the most disadvantaged part of the UK, whilst Northern Ireland, still in the Single Market out performs in economic growth.

      These lickspittle finger wagging SNP politicians know fine well that if there boss Sturgeon had done the decent thing and held an indyref instead of campaigning to save England from itself we wouldn’t be in the position we’re in right now, I really wish the spineless and gutless SNP politicians would keep it shut on how damaging to Scotland Brexit has and will continue to be.

    366. Robert Hughes says:

      Ah Hatuey much as I’ve liked many of your comments, I have noted your powers of prognosis are , well , pretty crap , yr a kind of Cassandra in reverse – people believe your predictions but they are invariably inaccurate .

      point 1) the * authorities * are in complete control – of the narrative .

      2) the hospitals were never ” completely overwhelmed ” – in fact had excess capacity which was never used

      3) lots of people always die at this time of year : all cause mortalities were higher in two of the last 10 years , so unless you believe – had Covid not happened – there would have been an incredible and totally implausible drop in ACM we have to attribute the figures for 2020/1 as a product of labelling just about every death as FROM Covid , as opposed to WITH Covid .

      4) this one may prove to be accurate but would just be more of the same – Alarmist MSM reporting – public clamour for Governmental response – Governments doing the exact same – useless – things and expecting different results .An endless cycle of panicked stupidity .

    367. Andy Ellis says:

      @Alf Baird 6.16 pm

      1) “Most serious independence commentators have ditched the idea of another referendum, for obvious reasons.”

      Have they? That’s news to me. I’m fully in support of calls for plebiscitary elections, but I doubt you have the receipts to back up your claim. Much as those of us disillusioned with the referendum process, the “Gold Standard” and the debate about whether we need permission to hold a referendum or not, it remains the accepted route for the majority of the movement, and more to the point it is firmly entrenched within the SNP and Scottish Green parties. The commentariat of the movement may be divided, but it’s simply wrong to declare “most” serious commentators have ditched the idea.

      2) “Fortunately for us the colonial power is not allowing another referendum, the colonial administration will probably never get round to organising a referendum, and Scotland doesn’t even need a referendum to be independent.”

      On that much we agree. I think there’s still disagreement on next steps, and whether it’s necessary to show that we’ve tried all other avenues before changing course, but it has never been the case that there was only one route to independence, or one way to exercise self determination.

      Gaining international recognition for independence presupposes that we can convince the international community that our “internal self determination” is being prevented, or is insufficient to meet our demands, and that we are therefore moving to “external self determination”. Showing that our right to hold a referendum is being unjustifiably prevented in contravention of our sovereign rights is the first part of that.

      3) “Barbados shows what can be done when a people are (a) sovereign and (b) hold a majority of seats. That’s now the direction of travel.”

      No, it really doesn’t. Barbados is already independent. It is simply changing its constitutional status from a hereditary monarchy to a republic. They decided not to use a referendum route because their existing constitution had no provision for referendums and there was no history of them being used, but also because the ruling Labour party feared it would lose such a vote, as public opinion in polling didn’t really support moves towards a republic.

      The vote was however legitimate because the Labour party had stood on a specifically republican mandate and they had the necessary 2/3 majority in their Assembly. Using the Barbadian example as a rationale for saying we can declare independence on the basis of a simple majority of MPs or MSPs voting for it is misleading, unless it was clearly in response to a plebiscitary mandate and backed by a majority of voters. It’s not comparing like with like.

      Barbadian historian Prof. Pedro Welch pointed out that it was the doctrine of parliamentary supremacy that allowed the transition to a republic on a 2/3 vote in their parliament, saying:

      “That’s why we did not need a referendum to go towards republican status. And whilst a referendum would have been useful, and I honestly think it would have been very useful to gauge the public’s view, the fact remains that Eric Walton Barrow [first Prime Minister of an independent Barbados] put in place the mechanisms we use today”

      https://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pnum=1&edid=2e061400-2ff9-42b2-940c-804e15631b78&isshared=true

    368. Republicofscotland says:

      Well Sturgeon will give children and extra tenner, via the Scottish Child Payment come April 2022, I suppose its better than nothing, but a tenner won’t go far not in post-Brexit Scotland, where everything is becoming more expensive. Still I’m sure the Sturgeonistas will light another candle for their false messiah.

      We send hundreds of millions of pounds to England’s Chancellors coffers everyday, hundreds of millions that should remain in Scotland and be used to nurture our children among other things, yet the Sturgeonistas will be overjoyed at the lousy extra ten quid that won’t even reach the kids until April next year, when fuel bills among other bills are set to skyrocket higher than they are now. Right now people are asking for cold foods at foodbanks because they cannot afford to heat foods up, next years fuel price rises will tip many over the edge.

      Scotland is rich in fuel sources yet Scots pay through the nose for their power why? Because we are part of this union that’s why, and our current FM is too gutless and spineless to do anything about it, so Scots suffer.

      Sturgeon has failed Scots and Scotland miserably, throwing a few scraps to the masses when hundreds of millions of pounds is syphoned from Scotland daily to another country is disgraceful, when will the Scottish masses waken up and see through this charlatan of an FM for what she really is.

    369. wee monkey says:

      “Well Sturgeon will give children and extra tenner, via the Scottish Child Payment come April 2022, I suppose its better than nothing, but a tenner won’t go far..”

      Under 6 years only. Detail is everything.

    370. Republicofscotland says:

      As the rest of the UK held the census in March Sturgeon failed to hold it in Scotland preferring to hold it next year, the cost of delaying the census has added another £22 million pounds onto it, to £138 million pounds.

      In my opinion Sturgeon delayed the census from March to next year so as the result of the census wouldn’t impact upon her party’s chances of retaining or gaining seats at in May’s Scottish elections. I’m sure when the census is finally completed and the results are there for all to see, Scots will be shocked to see the amount of incomers to Scotland especially those from England, that would ultimately seriously influence a plebiscitary referendum or election.

      I also recall, though I cannot remember on what exactly that several important reports were, also held back by the SNP government from being released until after May’s elections.

    371. Andy Ellis says:

      @breeks 5.26 am

      From what i saw of many of the locals living down on the South Coast as I did, I can’t honestly say I’m that surprised. There is a strong undercurrent of anti-immigrant sentiment in lots of the shires I’m afraid.

      The constant fluffing of UKIP in the years prior to the brexit referendum really brought it out in to the open. It was definitely one of the factors that encouraged us to leave Sussex and return to Scotland: the open expression of bigotry and xenophobia increased markedly in the years running up to the brexit referendum. UKIP frequently polled >30% in local elections in parts of the SE.

      Some of those pushing the nativist ethno nationalist line in here ought to give themselves a shake and wake up to the fact that this is where the logic of their blood and soil position ultimately leads.

    372. Republicofscotland says:

      So we’re back to the old chestnut of the Scottish SNP government establishing a public Scottish energy company to give Scots cheaper fuel. We’ve been here before not that long ago, when the SNP ran the not for profit public energy firm OUR POWER, which I was a customer of before it went burst, long before the pandemic.

      The revival of the idea is just at the consultation stage, the plans had already been dropped earlier this year, and the plan was dropped at the SNP’s September conference last year even though the members backed it.

      A staggering 25% of Scottish households are in fuel poverty, yet Scotland has an abundance of energy sources, it s a disgraceful situation, and Sturgeon should hang her head in shame, she failed to deliver in many areas, none more so than on Scottish independence.

    373. Republicofscotland says:

      “Under 6 years only. Detail is everything.”

      Wee Monkey.

      Is that so, well talk about bread and circuses, Sturgeon is up there on here own. As Sturgeon swanned around COP26, picking up awards, waiting times at Scottish hospitals for diagnostic tests rose, people waiting on an MRI scan or a colonoscopy or ultrasound or endoscopy are now waiting far longer than before.

      The official waiting time is six weeks, you should be seen within this time, however that figure hasn’t been met for everyone since 2010.

    374. Republicofscotland says:

      The sleaze surrounding the witchfinder generals office aka the COPFS continues.

      https://archive.md/SMZrA

    375. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 10.25 am

      It will be interesting to see the census results and then to see what if any impacts they have on voting patterns in subsequent elections an/or referendums. Looking at the ONS figures the % of Scots born people in Scotland fell from 87.1% in 2001 census to 83.3% in the 2011 census. The English born % only rose from 8.1% to 8.7% however. Wales & NI stayed at around a total of 1% in both years.

      The big increase over the same period was those born in the EU (including Ireland), up from 0.8 to 2.6%. I wonder if that number will fall due to brexit? All other countries rose from 2.5% to 3.9%.

      In the decade to 2011, Scotland’s minority ethnic population doubled, from 2 to 4 per cent of the total population (from 102,000 to 211,000 people). White non-British groups also increased, from 3 to 4 per cent of the population (127,000 to 222,000 people); together these groups made up 8 per cent of Scotland’s population.

      (see: https://scotland.shinyapps.io/sg-equality-evidence-finder/ )

      Looking at the maths, it’s easy to see if you do a fairly basic excel spreadsheet that relatively small increases in the % of “native born Scots” supporting independence can quickly offset the % of non native born people voting against independence. Obviously if the 80-85% of native born Scots are pretty evenly divided then that groups influence will be heightened.

      Any big decrease of EU citizens may be bad news, as they’re probably more likely to have voted for independence post brexit than they were in 2014 with Project Fear assuring them they’d be out of the EU if Yes had won then, but I imagine those that stayed in Scotland may have flipped from a big majority voting No in 2014. to a big majority voting Yes in future? I doubt there is any real polling evidence to support that view however…

    376. Hatuey says:

      Mr Hughes, let’s start with the simple acknowledgment that none of us have a clue what the future holds as far as covid and mutations are concerned.

      We both seem to agree that the narrative is being tightly controlled. The narrative right now, plainly, is telling us that omicron is nothing to worry about. My metaphor of smoke being used to placate bees, then, seems appropriate.

      If it doesn’t worry you when a government with one of the worst records in the world on public health tells you not to worry about a possible public health nightmare, it’s time to re-calibrate your compass.

      I had a look at the numbers for the UK on covid from a slightly different perspective the other day when we crossed the milestone of 12 million recorded positive cases. It turns out that 1.5 in 100 people who caught covid went on to die in the UK. Again, if that is a trivial thing for you, we aren’t on the same page.

      We could argue about what exactly “overwhelmed” means as far as the NHS is concerned. When literally millions of treatments and operations are cancelled and people are dying on the floor as they wait several hours for ambulances, though, you really don’t have a functioning health service as any of us would have defined it just 2 years ago.

      The strategy all along has been to keep the economy (“beaches”) open, regardless of the implications for disease control and health and, to that end, there’s been a systematic barrage of lies and spin used to downplay the risks. Plenty of people have fallen for that propaganda, demonstrating their gullibility in the process, and it looks like you have too.

      The darkest chapters in human history often begin with sequencing like this. Ordinary people danced in the streets of London in 1914 when news that the war had begun reached them.

      “Tips for how to smoke your hive”
      https://www.buddhabeeapiary.com/blog/why-do-beekeepers-use-smoke

    377. Robert Hughes says:

      Hatuey

      Thanks for that measured response amigo .

      I feel like I’ve exhausted the subject here and elsewhere but the essay linked pretty much expresses my perception of the whole shebang .

      https://paulkingsnorth.substack.com/p/the-vaccine-moment-part-one?fbclid=IwAR3GwlG3qM5acYNp73A921MF5XCyhzs1lMsLmm7GNdAvmHPqzBhj0wngMeY

    378. PacMan says:

      re: Changing demographics in Scotland.

      It might be advisable to check house prices in certain areas as well.

      With no end of sight to the pandemic, working from home for the majority is here to say. Without being tied to an office, both can work from anywhere they choose.

      Who’s to say that there could be a influx of say unionist voting professionals from say the South East of England or even Edinburgh moving to the Highlands and both pushing up house prices as well as changing the balance of unionist v independence voting patterns?

    379. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 11.26 am & @Robert Hughes 11.35 am

      I see you’re on different sides of the debate. I’m probably closer to Hatuey’s view than Robert’s, but having seen the way things are going I’m not sure I buy either Kingsnorth’s idea that we are on the cusp of “the Machine” staging some form of coup d’état against our fundamental liberties, or the idea that we’re the equivalent of bees being rendered inert via rhetorical smoke.

      In his essay quoted by Robert, Kingsnorth makes much of the fact that places with high vaccination rates like Ireland on 94% also have high Covid infection rates. The “fact” this hasn’t been adequately explained to him is one of the supports for his rather overblown thesis. In reality however, there are readily available reasons explaining something Kingsnorth appears convinced is sinister, or being hidden. In the UK’s case, reasons explaining infection rates being high despite high vaccination rates included:

      1) half-hearted mask adoption/wearing (particularly in crowded spaces and on public transport in England)
      2) allowing large indoor gatherings,
      3) hesitation in vaccinating younger teenagers as the USA and much of Continental Europe did,
      4) the return of schools in September, and finally
      5) the fact that vaccine immunity decreases after 6 months, which showed up earlier in the UK as we rolled out first and fastest.

      Doubtless Kingsnorth and those who share his take on things would argue with some of the above, but it simply isn’t true that there is no explanation for the issue he raised, or that there is somehow a cover up. His contribution does read like conspiracy theorising and being slightly hysterical: he acknowledges these risks himself. Perhaps most tellingly however, Kingsnorth’s thesis seems to rely in the end on his “gut feelz”. He even says:

      “I expect that readers of this essay could argue with me about my decision [not to get vaccinated] if they felt like it, and I expect I could argue back. This is what much of the world has been doing sine these vaccines arrived on the scene. We could all throw peer-reviewed studies that we don’t really understand at each other, and they would all miss the mark because the vaccine is not the point. The point is what it symbolises – and what it is being used to build.

      I am a writer. I know how to construct stories. I know what makes them succeed or fail, and I have a nose for when a story does not hang together. The covid Narrative is just such a story. It doesn’t fit together, even on its own terms. Something is wrong. The surface tale does not reflect what lies beneath. And what lies beneath is what interests me now.”

      For Kingsnorth, it’s a matter of faith. He doesn’t really have any evidence to present, something just smells bad: he can feel it in his story writing gut that something just isn’t right. There is for him some spirit moving across the face of the waters, a conjunction he can’t quite explain of legacy media, the power of Silicon valley, sly dishonest political leaders and their obeisance to corporate power, and the compromised “ideology” of science.

      Hmmnnn….I dunno about you, but I’m not buying it. If it looks and feels like hysterical conspiracy theorising, it probably IS.

      I don’t think “the people” are having a vaccine moment and reacting against the Machine: a small minority may be doing so, but most are what Kingsnorth would term compliers. I think that in the future the historical importance of the pandemic will not be seen not as the split between deniers and compliers and the risks Kingsnorth sees that our liberties will be suppressed by the nebulous “Machine”.

      Rather the response to the pandemic will confront people and their governments and institutions with the realisation that global issues like climate change, environmental degradations, world poverty, inequality and access to food, education and heath care are in their own ways problems like the pandemic that can be tackled and hopefully overcome, not by reference to faith but by enacting better policy decisions based firmly on science and reality.

    380. Robert Hughes says:

      Andy

      There’s absolutely nothing ” hysterical ” about yr man’s essay . As I said , I’m done debating this on social media or anywhere other than in face-to-face exchanges .

      For me it’s simply down to one question viz ” are the Governmental responses ( talk about hysterical , some of those Australian politicians come across as borderline insane ) we’ve seen appropriate , balanced , necessary , useful or even rational ?

      For me , the answer is resoundingly in the negative .

      I’ll leave it at that

    381. Andy Ellis says:

      @Robert Hughes 3.56 pm

      I think reasonable people on both sides of the argument can agree on certain things such as certain responses being over the top and a step too far, particularly those in Austria.

      Kingsnorth’s essay illustrates the problems about the whole debate well inasmuch as he recognises the fact it probably generates more heat than light at this point and has proven capable of being a wedge issue, as we’ve seen here as elsewhere.

      We’ll have to agree to disagree whether his contribution is hysterical or conspiracy theorising: it has all the hallmarks to me, but doubtless those who share his worldview will lap it up. Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, I’m just not sure how much weight I’d give to someone with Kingsnorth’s background and worldview, however good a writer or polemicist he is.

      The concept of “the Machine” seems wildly overblown to my mind, up there with the illuminati or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. He obviously has his fan boys and girls though as the comments show: interesting how many of them are couched with reference to religion and faith, which may reflect Kingsnorth’s own spiritual journey as a convert.

    382. Hatuey says:

      I made it through most of Kingsnorth’s article, but I should have given up much earlier when he demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of the role and importance of vaccination. I’m happy to assume he intentionally misunderstood but if someone wants to convince us he is genuinely thick, I won’t object.

      His foundational point which almost everything else rests on, that Ireland has one of the most highly vaccinated populations yet “curiously” also has some of the highest infection rates, takes obtuse to levels we haven’t seen since the Brexit debate.

      There’s exactly fuck all curious about it. The vaccines don’t stop you catching covid but they generally are very effective at stopping it killing you or making you extremely ill. That isn’t unusual with vaccines and I’ve already written on here about the science of that. The data confirms all this in tragic detail.

      Anyone who leaves that out of an argument (and I’m not certain he did leave it out since I couldn’t finish it, although he might as well have) is either being incredibly dishonest or straightforwardly thick, as I suggested.

      It’s not complicated. It’s not even unusual. The vaccine doesn’t stop you catching covid but it’ll dramatically reduce your chance of getting seriously ill. Got it? Shall I say it another thousands times?

      For the actual sake of fucks.

    383. Dan says:

      @ Hatuey 5.35pm

      I guess that’s just part of the problem we all have to endure when “they” call a symptom reducing serum and vaccine.

      But then again blurring of word definitions seems to be the norm these days…

    384. Dan says:

      Grr – “…when “they” call a symptom reducing serum a vaccine…

    385. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Dan’s typo and an interview on Reporting Scotland generate this comment, while I am gently stroking my “Proud Pedant” badge.

      https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/_/rsrc/1472779053011/home/badge-designs/ProudPedant-crop.jpg

      You can say or type, “I went through hell” or “I have gone through hell”.

      You never, ever, say or type, “I have went through hell”.

    386. Hatuey says:

      Dan: “when “they” call a symptom reducing serum a vaccine…”

      On that basis, all vaccines are serums. None of them whatsoever, anywhere, ever, give a guarantee of full “sterilising immunity”, which is a myth and isn’t necessary to stamp out a disease.

      Try and keep up; https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/

    387. wee monkey says:

      Hot off the press.

      Dr Ursula von der Leyen,European Commission’s President.

      We MUST consider MANDATORY vaccination in the face of highly contagious omicron variant.

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/12/01/eu-must-consider-mandatory-vaccination-says-ursula-von-der-leyen/

      So you will no longer have control over your own body.

      Fuck this!

    388. Dan says:

      wee monkey’s Telegraph link archived

      https://archive.md/L1Zu2

      @ Hatuey

      Is it really sensible to class the covid symptom reducing serums as vaccines when their efficacy is so short lived and of yet to be determined value against new strains, along with offering diminishing protection in older folk.

      On a superficial level, plenty people will think they are protected and be far more lax in how they behave and interact when in groups. I’m seeing loads of shoppers in the supermarket in my area now not wearing masks.

      Many commonly known vaccines offer lifelong or protection for considerable lengths of time in comparison. Therefore I just think that a notable distinction needs to be made due to the relatively short term protection supposedly offered by the covid jags.

    389. Hatuey says:

      “ Is it really sensible to class the covid symptom reducing serums as vaccines when their efficacy is so short lived…”

      What, like the flu vaccine you mean?

      Actually the short-lived efficacy of the flu jab is typically lower than the levels we can verifiably see with the COVID vaccines. It varies year to year.

      Nobody protests about that or claims some sinister group is using it to exterminate mankind.

    390. Dan says:

      …And as most younger folk have no requirement for an annual flu vaccine you kind of hit the nail on the head, as their only experience with vaccines will be getting jagged with ones that offer far longer term “protection” than 6 months.

      I’m not talking about vaccine conspiracy shit. I’m talking about those in positions of power using a sensible narrative to properly inform folk.
      It’s pretty clear many folk now just don’t give a fuck anymore because of the past contradictory bullshit that’s been rolled out. Ya ken, like everyone stay in your houses and restrict the number of folk you meet up with to stop the spread, but having big footie competitions, the Olympics, and COP26 with folk traveling from all over the planet is jist fine.

    391. Hatuey says:

      I agree that it has been handled terribly, Dan. I also agree that it’s being used to justify all sorts of action and inaction, serving as an excuse and pretext for stuff that normally wouldn’t be acceptable.

      Thousands are dead and those responsible are ruling over us, denying their role in the mess whilst pretending they care. I see them.

      None of that means we should give up and throw more people under a bus.

      Getting back to my post that sparked this exchange, I started with some gloomy predictions about Omicron.

      The propaganda has been so one-sidedly optimistic about Omicron that I run almost zero risk of having to retract or worry about being wrong.

      And I hope I’m wrong but it’s possible they’re doing it all over again.

      The sort of arguments I’m hearing today about it possibly being a good thing for all of us to catch this new variant are essentially identical to the ‘herd immunity’ arguments we heard last March.

      If there’s one thing that’s more dangerous than the boy who cries wolf when there isn’t a one, it’s the boy that doesn’t cry at all when there is…

    392. gregor says:

      The public tried to warn you of the rotten agenda (months ago):

      “It is expected that all COVID-19 vaccinees will need to receive booster doses at regular intervals and it is possible that vaccinated individuals will have to receive repeated immunisations throughout life…”

      https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Risk-of-transmission-and-reinfection-of-SARS-CoV-2-following-vaccination.pdf

      “People will be likely to need to have annual Covid vaccinations for many years to come, the head of Pfizer has told the BBC”:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59488848

      “Pfizer fined for decade of bribery”:
      https://www.ft.com/content/216d2e3e-e0aa-11e1-b465-00144feab49a

    393. wull says:

      Hatuey says: ‘The propaganda has been so one-sidedly optimistic about Omicron that I run almost zero risk of having to retract or worry about being wrong.’

      I am not disagreeing with you, Hatuey, and not entering into the vaccine discussion (on either side of it) here. My concern is with Nicola Sturgeon and her long-standing engagement (of which sort we can all work out for ourselves) with a possible Indyref2.

      Your comment made me laugh when I thought of her. After all ‘Pop-up Nicola’ (popping up in-yer-face and on-yer-screen days after day for 18 months) has undoubtedly been our main ‘propagandist’ for Covid, and there she was making immediate comments on ‘Omicron’.

      And, yes, your comment, Hatuey, made me realise that her comment was indeed ‘one-sidedly’ and overwhelmingly ‘optimistic’. Optimistic, that is, from her point of view – or, if you like, from her ‘side’ of the way she looks at things.

      In her own mind, Omicron is going to be the best thing that ever happened. Even better than the last ‘best thing’, which was the beginning of the whole Covid 19 scare in the first place – that wonderful gift that had enabled her to bury all her mis-doings in regard to the Alex Salmond affair, and postpone everything related to the SNP’s prime purpose. Now – look on the bright side, be optimistic, Little Miss Nic’la (no wonder she is enjoying it) – Omicron is just the job, exactly what the Doctor ordered to kick Indyref2 even further down the line.

      Just when the Covid-19 fig-leaf seemed to be slipping, here comes Omicron riding to the rescue, to save her political nakedness from being exposed.

      ‘You gottta be optimistic! Indyref2 is postponed – Long Live Omicron!’

    394. Hatuey says:

      Yes, good morning, Wull.

      Sturgeon can only make political capital out of covid if it’s scary but not so scary that people say she and the strategy has failed. It seems like a conflicted position, on one hand wanting to frighten you and on the other reassure and rescue you, but it isn’t really. It’s pretty standard gaslighting.

      It’s scary but if you all do as I say, you can survive, I’ve been working tirelessly to save you from this, I know what I’m doing, I’m clever and I understand how to deal with this sort of thing, look how serious and business-like I am, you can trust me, it’s serious and scary but you can trust me… I’ve got this.

      There’s implicit betting going on in the background, that it will all turn out okay in the end and she will get the credit. We are all forced to hope she wins that bet. It’s a bit like betting that the world won’t end; if it does end, you won’t need to worry about paying up.

      Nobody has explained why Sturgeon is even doing these covid briefings. No other politician in any other country has done them like that. It’s a job for public health experts. Sure, the politicians come out at major junctures and comment on policy and developments, just as Boris has, but not every day.

      I’m amazed London has allowed this but I guess they needed someone to sell the suicidal ‘herd immunity’ strategy to us and she was in the right place at the time. Note that according to science ‘herd immunity’ isn’t possible with covid, owing to the mutations, and that’s official.

      My big problem is that we have politicised the whole thing. In an ideal world politicians wouldn’t be anywhere near health. There’s really serious trust issues with politicians generally. Look at the way the Nike conference was handled, care homes, etc. How can you be expected to trust them now?

      It’s insane. As always, the insanity of it is masked by the propaganda.

    395. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 11.57 am

      It’s interesting in this context to speculate on an “alternative future” where the Scottish government had pursued a different policy or set of policies from the UK government. I remember someone early in the crisis insisting that there was nothing legally to stop the Scottish government effectively closing the border, as the Welsh government did later. I wonder how many Scottish lives might have been saved if Sturgeon and her government had had the political balls to do things differently?

      Of course the health professionals don’t always get it right either, as the early fluffing of herd immunity amply demonstrates. It’s interesting though that some of the folk Sturgeon presumably admires like Jacinda Ardern in New Zealand managed to adopt and enforce policies which resulted in much better outcomes for her people than Sturgeon managed for Scots people.

      Whether the political and policy timidity was driven by her general mediocrity or by the desire not to scare the “soft No” horses and be seen as a responsible MOR political force not obsessed with independence and not always putting constitutional issues first, is open to question. A combination of both perhaps?

      I’m pretty sure that it wouldn’t even have entered the SNP leadership’s heads that by ensuring clear tartan water between their own policy positions and the bumbling, chaotic positions adopted by Westminster, they night actually have GAINED support? Instead we have to settle for the faint praise of being not quite as bad as Boris Johnson.

    396. Hatuey says:

      It’s easy to imagine things being done differently, Andy. The way Boris and the gang have handled this, it could and should have been a bigger boon to the Indy cause than Brexit. Sturgeon has failed to capitalise on either and it’s hard to imagine us being in a bigger mess with a more uncertain and gloomy future.

      Sturgeon has been gambling from the start, at every juncture, by going along with Westminster. And it’s cost us massively. Instead of standing up for Scotland and massively reinforcing the need for independence, she went along with their insane covid policies and what did we get? Lockdowns and corpses, basically. That’s what we got instead.

      But it wasn’t for narrow political reasons she should have opposed their approach to covid. ‘Herd immunity’ was clearly insane and it’s hard to imagine how many lives it cost. So then we all went into lockdown and almost eradicated the virus, and what did they do? Opened everything up, sent the kids back to school, and fucked it all up again… the price we paid was the same as before, more lockdown, more deaths.

      Sturgeon didn’t skip a beat. She went along with it all 100%, give or take a couple of really ineffectual minor tweaks. I remember distinctly last year when schools went back and cases started to rise dramatically they dug in and insisted that it had nothing to do with schools. Jesus. Schools at the best of times are basically virus distribution plants.

      The same thing happened with delta, and back to the roulette table we trundled. The airlines couldn’t believe that the UK was still accepting flights from India when everyone else had banned them, and, taking advantage of the natural surge in demand, they put on more planes on and made a killing. Again, Sturgeon said and done nothing.

      And they’re doing it again now, gambling with our lives. There’s a big problem with the omicron propaganda that nobody is telling you about. The first identified case was on the 21st of November. That being the case, how can they say it’s mild and harmless? There’s been a 4 week lag between infection surges and hospitalisation throughout… we aren’t even two weeks into this.

      As always with Sturgeon and scotgov, you find yourself constantly hoping you’re wrong and then you find out, not that you were you right, but, it’s even worse than you had feared.

      God help us if this thing mutates in a really scary direction.

    397. Ebok says:

      Hatuey says:
      at 11:57 am
      ‘There’s really serious trust issues with politicians generally’

      Quite an understatement, Hatuey.
      The corny old joke ‘how can you tell when a politician is lying…’ now has an enormous ring of truth to it.
      50 years on from Lennon’s broadside ‘Gimme Some Truth’, spin has developed into an art form with politicians.

      It’s incomprehensible that the public continually swallow it.

    398. gregor says:

      An interesting development (re. personal belief/wilful blindness/British gutter press v peer reviewed, top-rated medical journal/scientific study):

      “Up to 300,000 people in the UK are facing heart-related illnesses due to post-pandemic stress disorder (PPSD), two London physicians have warned:

      I’ve seen a big increase in thrombotic-related vascular conditions in my practice…. We also have evidence that some patients have died at home from conditions such as pulmonary embolism and myocardial infarction… I believe many of these cases are a direct result of the increased stress and anxiety levels caused from the effects of PPSD. PPSD is a mental health condition induced by the pandemic. While it is not yet officially recognised, many experts believe it should be. (2 December 2021)”:

      https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/post-pandemic-stress-disorder-heart-conditions-covid-london-physicians-b969436.html

      “We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination. (8 November 2021)”:

      https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

    399. Hatuey says:

      It’s a strange comment, gregor.

      On one hand we are told this whole business has caused a lot of stress, and it most surely has, but then we are told mRNA vaccines are causing heart attacks. Yikes.

      That would cause even more stress for readers and possibly put them off getting life-saving vaccines if there wasn’t someone here to tell the truth…

      https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-vaccines-idUSL1N2SH1HN

      For those of you who quite rationally choose not to read the Reuters report, take my word for it, everything gregor’s second links suggests is crap.

      Deep breaths, everybody, and ahhhhhhhhhhhhh…

    400. gregor says:

      @Hatuey

      Apologies, I thought the information was peer reviewed as it was published in the journal, and didn’t realise it was just an abstract from a non-disclosed study.



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